Phil Spector April 16 thru May 17

[Details]

A defense attorney defending his client is not necessarily a despicable person - but that depends on the defense, whether it is ethical or not. The fact that all defendants deserve an attorney representing their interests does not mean that ANY tactics are acceptable. Whether it's prosecution or defense - lies, faulty evidence, slander are bad things to do, and when it's done either to get a guilty man to go free, or to convict an innocent man - it's wrong.

There's a whole wide spectrum between "lynch mob" and allowing testilying, slander, etc. to try to get your client off. Lots of space in the middle there, and there are ethical standards for defense attorneys - it's not anything goes, as some of them seem to think.

In this case - I find the whole Henry Lee thing to be very dirty, the attempts to make a normal person out to be suicidal based on tiny exerpts from a ton of emails as something far too close to slander.

An ethical defense means pointing out the holes in the case, any REAL mitigating circumstances, any REAL reasons for doubt - not hiring defense experts to make up stories about how a person shot through the spinal cord can still move and maybe even wipe a gun down. It is against the ethical codes for any defense attorney to knowingly suborn perjury - of course, they don't enforce that as much as they should, and even when they do, most who are dirty enough to do that, are also dirty enough to make sure to cover their tracks, give themselves room to deny they knew what was going on.

[tartangirl]

Hello CJ, good to see you're still around.

I agree with your comments; although, I really did not care for the Defense that my father had. I was sure that he could have done a lot of other things that would have helped him a lot more.

I had no doubt what my father wanted to do, I was just disappointed in how the Defense for both trials handled the case.

Gary it is good to see you here. I have had nothing worth posting lately. A few odd bits here and there not worth repeating for the most part. I can not think of anything nice to say about the defense for PS in either trial now so I will let it go at that...for now...:wink:

Take care,

~as always, my opinion, Justice for Lana and those who love her ~

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=lana

[vonna]

Hello CJ, good to see you're still around.

I agree with your comments; although, I really did not care for the Defense that my father had. I was sure that he could have done a lot of other things that would have helped him a lot more.

I had no doubt what my father wanted to do, I was just disappointed in how the Defense for both trials handled the case.

I've heard you say that before, Gary, that you had no doubt what your father wanted to do. May I ask what that was?

[kennedy06]

Dianna, while I could never know for a fact, I'm guessing PS may have went with DW because DW had been associates in at least one high profile case with Dennis R., the appeals expert PS had with PS1. Maybe he was suggested to him? I wonder what PS thinks of DW now.

Anyone else remember Plourd was kept on after PS1, didn't he have a trial, some sort of delay it seems, they had to wait on. Then he seemed to disappear from it all IIRC.

[vonna]

Dianna, while I could never know for a fact, I'm guessing PS may have went with DW because DW had been associates in at least one high profile case with Dennis R., the appeals expert PS had with PS1. Maybe he was suggested to him? I wonder what PS thinks of DW now.

Anyone else remember Plourd was kept on after PS1, didn't he have a trial, some sort of delay it seems, they had to wait on. Then he seemed to disappear from it all IIRC.

Getting rid of Plourd was wise. He put everyone to sleep. His questioning was interminable.
Evening, Dianna!

[bearwds]

I don't think it is too early to try to organize some sort of live, streaming coverage, of May 29th sentencing.

Main stream media so dropped the ball on televising PS-2.

On the 29th, there will be a fixed event that is focused. Easy for MSM to understand.

I would like a commitment and haven't heard any.

CNN would be a logical venue but that was thought so in PS-2.

Maybe we could kick it around here and if KTLA, CNN or even LegalEdge is decided upon, we could focus our attention on getting a firm commitment from them.

Not sure in this case whether there will be victim impact statements, but those should be covered if allowed.

Toss this to you.


bearwds

[kennedy06]

Bearwds, that is a good idea and nice of you to bring it up for us to consider. Maybe the best venue would be the station that took the time to cover the verdict? Court Jester's idea is good also.

Seems we are pretty scattered right now, others like myself having found other interest in the meantime, but hopefully others will stop by and give some food for thought on the idea also.

Thanks

:smile:

[Ellie]

Hey all. My suggestion is for us to innundate Dominick Dunne's page with pleas asking him to have a special on Spector, his trial, and the verdict. I don't know that I would want to hear or see this coming from anyone else if someone else were to make this a project. Not that bear was suggesting that, I'm just sayin' is all. :smile:

[eagleeer]

Bearwds, that is a good idea and nice of you to bring it up for us to consider. Maybe the best venue would be the station that took the time to cover the verdict? Court Jester's idea is good also.

Seems we are pretty scattered right now, others like myself having found other interest in the meantime, but hopefully others will stop by and give some food for thought on the idea also.

Thanks

:smile:

Kennedy, I just email'd Hariet Ryan to ask if she knows. Maybe if enough people do this she might put some pressure on KTLA to do a live feed for us. Harriet.Ryan@latimes.com

I also sent a message through the KTLA website (contact us tab) scroll down to management. http://ktla.com

I don't expect an immediate answer from management but Harriet R. is really good at returning her emails. Maybe if all of us inundate them with emails they might listen.

[kennedy06]

I understand Jester, after listening or reading daily what he had to say on this case when the trials were going on I think it is easy to feel a certain amount of glad tidings and respect for him, he was sort of the knight in shining armor in the courtroom. Jingle away:smile:

Great ideas for the coverage, hope others PS posters will consider them also.

[cocoloco]

Hey Gary...you've made the big time! Good for you...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b120833_spectorrsquos_son_didnrsquot_like_phil.htm l

[cocoloco]

Also, check out the comments on the eonline article. If to be believed, Ronnie Spector has made a comment.

[tartangirl]

Tartangirl has posted terrific links on the links thread. Good reading to keep us busy until 5/29.

Thank you, Lass!

Jester


Oh gosh, seems so long ago. I do remember one that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when it referred to Alan Jackson in less than the brilliance that he so deserves. Such jealous and pathetic ploys...tsk tsk tsk...:glare:

It is nice to see some of the die hard posters back. Did you all go on vacation together? LOL :rolleyes: What a motley crew that would be..LOL

~as always, my opinion, Justice for Lana and those who love her ~

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=lana

[eagleeer]

HEY! eagleeer! Good to see you again. I e-mailed Harriet Ryan and tried to contact KTLA, but their server is down. I'll try again later.

Thank you so much for the links!

You "Young'uns" may not know this one but....
{sung to the tune of RAWHIDE}

Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Keep them e-mails rollin'
Keep them e-mails rollin'...Don't Hide....

Jester :biggrinjester:

"Young'uns" ? Rawhide first aired in 1959 the year I graduated from high school. Not such a Youn'un anymore here. :wink:

[kennedy06]

Hi, kennedy06! I am like you, but not confused. I grew up with early PS music. I loved it then and still love it. What PS did in his later life as he sunk deeper into psychosis, has no bearing on the music he made in his early life.

I will NEVER defend how this madman abused people. PS personal life was despicable. But the music is brilliant.

I will never turn my back on The Richeous Brothers, who I still think are the greatest 'love song' duo of all times.

Just the Jester

Thank you Jester for your thoughts on it. I posted then thought maybe I shouldn't have, but I thought some of you may understand how I feel. I'm glad you did.

:smile:

[oodi]

Keep movin', movin', movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
Keep them emails movin'
Rawhide!

Sorry... no thanks to CJ, I can't get the Rawhide song outta my head. :unsure: :biggrin:

Good idea, eagleeer! Gonna send a few emails shortly!

[kennedy06]

i will not buy anything from spector or michael jackson..... both guys are vile to me now....

Oh I won't line his pockets I have utube:laugh: probably one of his worst nightmares, but that is exactly how I feel about MJ though. THen you do have to consider the singers and musicians PS worked with and their contribution....what is one to do sometimes?

[eagleeer]

Hey Gary...you've made the big time! Good for you...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b120833_spectorrsquos_son_didnrsquot_like_phil.htm l

I commented on that blog as RJ. I just called Gary and he is going to post a response to that article. Ronnie Spector is certainly alive as Gary just told me.

[vonna]

I agree 100%.

IMHO, LKB (etal) went way overboard in PS1... so did Weinberg in PS2.

But where else could they go when stuck with such a preposterous defense theory - that Lana bought 7 pairs of shoes for her job at the HOB - then went to Phil's castle to commit "accidental suicide?"

[True2Blues]

The FREE PHIL petition? There is one where the person comments that ps is a stud muffin. barf

:scared: I guess we just have to remember that there are crazy women out there who swoon over murderers.

[True2Blues]

But where else could they go when stuck with such a preposterous defense theory - that Lana bought 7 pairs of shoes for her job at the HOB - then went to Phil's castle to commit "accidental suicide?"

They could have refused and gone on to cases that didn't involve liar for hire witnesses and trash the victim, but those things obviously don't bother any of the attorneys for PS.

[Jayne]

Hello, Why?

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, but I seem to remember that Shapiro tried to get PS to plea in the beginning and that was why PS dumped him. I have no idea whether the DA would have accepted it or not. Probably not - but who knows? It never happened.

I also believe that the PS1 Defense Attorneys were "dirty". And as Details pointed out - not all Defense Attorneys are dirty, but some are.

I did not keep up with all of the PS2 trial so my distaste for Weinberg
was more emotional rather than observational. I don't support dirty tactics either.

I just know for ME, I have to be careful that I don't transfer my distaste for the defendant to the attorney representing him/her.

I believe that Murder2 is a just verdict here.

Well, I'll see y'all later. Take Care All.

Just the Jester

Maybe I need to go through my handwritten notes, which I can...due to..that they were LOST in my move from NJ to CA between PS1 and PS2...but I do believe that Shapiro was going to offer a plea, but PS said NO. It probably was to MS, not IVMS. DA probably would not have..I wouldn't have...but that doesn't matter. DA knew that enough to "get him"...it took a hung jury..then this. Shapiro was left "holding the bag..with no gold in it"..I think PS totally ()*)()* him. Had he agreed to it...and the DA did (probably unlikely..but ya never know)...PS wouldn't be standing or sitting or lying in jail right now. PS may not be as "dumb" as I thought/think he is...he didn't want to take it..he'd rather spend his money down trying to beat this thing. I think (speculation..YES) that Shapiro knew it..he may well have known from what PS told him..but he is BARRED from revealing that. He wanted to get him the best deal. PS said NO..then sued him? There is nothing wrong with a defense attorney offering a plea...well...maybe sometimes..depends if they know how to do it..and I think Shapiro knew well how to do it..but PS said nope.

ITA agree with you..I think Shapiro might have actually gotten IVMS..or maybe even MS...at plea stage...you're not in court yet. Would have saved a lot of money for the State..and Shapiro MIGHT? have gotten paid? Would have been a "guilty"..no matter what degree...Clarkson's could be done with all this by now. PS wouldn't have "had to" (OK..maybe he wanted to) marry Chelle...

but I have a tendency to think...that CA was tired of the celebrity "loser cases"..and they wanted to make sure this one "made it" to the appropriate charge". So..even if PS had agreed? Shapiro's pleas may have met with "dead ears".

You have some interesting insight.....gotta go pack boxes.

Jayne

[vonna]

They could have refused and gone on to cases that didn't involve liar for hire witnesses and trash the victim, but those things obviously don't bother any of the attorneys for PS.

But then how would LKB have paid for her make-over?

[coinoutlet]

Maybe I need to go through my handwritten notes, which I can...due to..that they were LOST in my move from NJ to CA between PS1 and PS2...but I do believe that Shapiro was going to offer a plea, but PS said NO. It probably was to MS, not IVMS. DA probably would not have..I wouldn't have...but that doesn't matter. DA knew that enough to "get him"...it took a hung jury..then this. Shapiro was left "holding the bag..with no gold in it"..I think PS totally ()*)()* him. Had he agreed to it...and the DA did (probably unlikely..but ya never know)...PS wouldn't be standing or sitting or lying in jail right now. PS may not be as "dumb" as I thought/think he is...he didn't want to take it..he'd rather spend his money down trying to beat this thing. I think (speculation..YES) that Shapiro knew it..he may well have known from what PS told him..but he is BARRED from revealing that. He wanted to get him the best deal. PS said NO..then sued him? There is nothing wrong with a defense attorney offering a plea...well...maybe sometimes..depends if they know how to do it..and I think Shapiro knew well how to do it..but PS said nope.

ITA agree with you..I think Shapiro might have actually gotten IVMS..or maybe even MS...at plea stage...you're not in court yet. Would have saved a lot of money for the State..and Shapiro MIGHT? have gotten paid? Would have been a "guilty"..no matter what degree...Clarkson's could be done with all this by now. PS wouldn't have "had to" (OK..maybe he wanted to) marry Chelle...

but I have a tendency to think...that CA was tired of the celebrity "loser cases"..and they wanted to make sure this one "made it" to the appropriate charge". So..even if PS had agreed? Shapiro's pleas may have met with "dead ears".

You have some interesting insight.....gotta go pack boxes.

Jayne

I believe that Spector DID pay Shapiro 1 million retainer. He sued to get it back, and lost.

[True2Blues]

But where else could they go when stuck with such a preposterous defense theory - that Lana bought 7 pairs of shoes for her job at the HOB - then went to Phil's castle to commit "accidental suicide?"

They could have refused the case, because they didn't want to work with liars for hire and trash the victim. Obviously neither of those things bother anyone who worked for PS.

[vonna]

[QUOTE=Nic99;13054643][QUOTE=Court Jester;13054532]kennedy06 suggested that I might want to access the link just to see what the "other side" had to say. I thought I could get a laugh and a few Jester Jokes out of it.

I read through 1 page of signers and had to leave. I mean, I just ate dinner FGS!

And I swear I am going to have a t-shirt made:

{On the back} WOOOOOO HOOOOO! MURDER TWO !!


{On the front} GO A.J. !!!!!!!!!


Okay you're entitled to your opinion, but WHY do you have to bring it down a level every time.

This board is for everyone, so please respect other peoples' views too.
It's not a joke to everyone.

Nic[/QUOTE

That's not bringing it down to a level. It's simply recognizing where it IS! Hope you can get one for me, too, CJ.

[eagleeer]

[quote=vonna;13054737][quote=Nic99;13054643][/b]
((((vonna))))

When I get a moment I will check out t-shirt places around here. I really do want a t-shirt that says that. When I find out info and $$ I'll post it on the forum and anyone who wants a shirt can PM me.

How's that?

:biggrinjester:

Don't forget to put your Jester Logo on it. :wink:

[True2Blues]

But then how would LKB have paid for her make-over?

True, but it didn't take anyway. She looks exactly the same now as she did at the beginning of PS1.:wink:

[True2Blues]

LOLOL! T2B - didn't you just post this on page 10? I had to go back and look.


WHEEEW!! I thought I was having and Acid Flashback :scared:

Just :biggrinjester:

I may have! I got tossed off the internet when I tried to post it the first time and didn't see it when I came back, so I posted it again. (sorry for the double post)

[tartangirl]

True, but it didn't take anyway. She looks exactly the same now as she did at the beginning of PS1.:wink:

I truly hate to bash a sister, but the work done does not look like it lasted very long. Why bother anyway? Age gracefully and live a clean life and a wise beautiful woman will show through for all to see. Being around that group of defense lawyers for five months must have made everything slide out of place. She was still slippery. :w00t:

~ as always, my opinion, Justice for Lana and those who love her ~

[oodi]

I truly hate to bash a sister, but the work done does not look like it lasted very long. Why bother anyway? Age gracefully and live a clean life and a wise beautiful woman will show through for all to see. Being around that group of defense lawyers for five months must have made everything slide out of place. She was still slippery. :w00t:

~ as always, my opinion, Justice for Lana and those who love her ~



I agree!!! Most look worse afterward than they did before anyway.

I figure I earned every one of my gray hairs, so I'm going to wear them proudly!!

[bearwds]

Good ideas folks. I knew if I threw it out there, you astute sleuths would brain storm for action.

Ms. Ryan sounded like a good resource. Anyone have a contact at CNN..??

...as to LKB, the combination of silicon and an earthquake zone just don't make it.


bearwds

[bearwds]

Just for info... News on T/T.


bearwds

[vonna]

Just for info... News on T/T.


bearwds

Thanks, bearwds.

[vonna]

TAKE A LOOK - HERE IS THE "TEE" I DESIGNED

http://www.vistaprint.com/vp/welcomeback.aspx?page=myact


I want to add my Jester logo but have to figure out how to copy it

CJ

I give up. I looked but couldn't find it.

[cherylt]

Maybe I need to go through my handwritten notes, which I can...due to..that they were LOST in my move from NJ to CA between PS1 and PS2...but I do believe that Shapiro was going to offer a plea, but PS said NO. It probably was to MS, not IVMS. DA probably would not have..I wouldn't have...but that doesn't matter. DA knew that enough to "get him"...it took a hung jury..then this. Shapiro was left "holding the bag..with no gold in it"..I think PS totally ()*)()* him. Had he agreed to it...and the DA did (probably unlikely..but ya never know)...well...maybe sometimes..depends if they know how to do it..and I think Shapiro knew well how to do it..but PS said nope.

ITA agree with you..I think Shapiro might have actually gotten IVMS..or maybe even MS...at plea stage...you're not in court yet. Would have saved a lot of money for the State..and Shapiro MIGHT? have gotten paid? Would have been a "guilty"..no matter what degree...Clarkson's could be done with all this by now. PS wouldn't have "had to" (OK..maybe he wanted to) marry Chelle...

but I have a tendency to think...that CA was tired of the celebrity "loser cases"..and they wanted to make sure this one "made it" to the appropriate charge". So..even if PS had agreed? Shapiro's pleas may have met with "dead ears".

You have some interesting insight.....gotta go pack boxes.

Jayne

Great observations... I thought that PS did pay him $1M though & that he was suing to get his $$ back. I was like "good luck w/ that PS. He was the one who got you out on BAIL and u should be kissing his butt, not suing him." You & Jester are probably right re: plea deal. This could all have been over years ago but PS didn't want ANY jail time and thought he could ride the celebrity gravy train right out of trouble.
NOT this time!

Wondering how he's enjoying the food and the company and all that solitute..............Nothing but more of the same for years and years to come........... I would almost feel sorry for him if he didn't trash Lana so bad. But he deserves everything he is getting. Good luck to Weinberg re: any appeal. (not!)

Speaking of appeals - remember how noisy Darren Mack was? Haven't heard anything about him fighting his plea in ages. Maybe he has settled in now w/ his mattress & the a/c more to his liking. :biggrin:

[penguin01]

I agree!!! Most look worse afterward than they did before anyway.

I figure I earned every one of my gray hairs, so I'm going to wear them proudly!!
I left all my grey hairs, but I really just had to pick my neck of my chest. Honest to gosh - don't know how it got there! :scared: But LKB got snookered - or maybe she did one of those inexpensive temporary, non-surgical treatments advertised on TV.

Hey Jayne. Welcome back. Was starting to wonder where you were.

[alldone]

Is the sentencing today? If so, what time is it scheduled for?

[cherylt]

Is the sentencing today? If so, what time is it scheduled for?


No, it 5/29, not 4/29. We have to wait another month!
boo, hiss... :)

And CJ - LOVE your Tee, thanks for posting it, I also couldn't access that link.

[Dexter]

Is the sentencing today? If so, what time is it scheduled for?

Sentencing for Phil Spector, convicted murderer, is set for May 29th, 2009.

[alldone]

WHAT!!! It isn't May yet? I'm having trouble with this retirement stint, I keep losing my calendar!

Thanks all...

[oodi]

WHAT!!! It isn't May yet? I'm having trouble with this retirement stint, I keep losing my calendar!

Thanks all...

LOL... Hubby plays golf every day Monday thru Friday, so if he isn't home, I know it's one of those days. :biggrin:

[cherylt]

LOL!! I'm in between jobs and I cannot keep up with days of the week. I have no "schedule" in my life.

Let's see.....if it's Wednesday it must be Ghost Hunters.....if it's Friday it must be Forensic Files...

I can soooo relate! :biggrinjester:


Too funny - me too! I am also between jobs, and sometimes ask DH what day it is. He responds, "must be nice not to know".. lol

Thus, we have so much time to spend on trial. Gotta admit, I'm loving this life, but it can't last forever.... (big sigh)

I wonder if PS is feeling the same way these days.. :biggrin:

[cherylt]

ROTFL!!! If you get confused on the week days, just jump on here!

Well...at least I can tell you if it's Wed or Fri.....

Good laugh - thanks oodi!

:biggrinjester:


It's easy, just scroll down to right bottom corner of computer & hover mouse over time... that's how I know usually know what day it is!!

[kennedy06]

I would think his biggest problem about now would be his realization that he lacks instant communication to the outside world. I bet that is the worst shock of all.

He had the control back then over other adults, well he thought he did, but they got the last laugh on him, but now those guards..these younger men oh and maybe women...have the final word with him. It may take a while before that sinks into him or maybe he has been the model prisoner from day 1. Think he has ran his cup across the bars yet? guard oh guard, well I guess he isn't in Mayberry is he. JMO I wonder if he thinks about that song Attica State,they all sang at JL 31st birthday party. (its on utube)

JMO on everything!

[oodi]

I think he is giddy about the conjugal visits with Chelle. barf

I could have gone the rest of my life without that mental picture. :scared:

[bearwds]

I think he is giddy about the conjugal visits with Chelle. barf

**********************************

Now...that is downright creepy.


bearwds

[cherylt]

I could have gone the rest of my life without that mental picture. :scared:


ROFL! That's for sure! On the other hand, I DO like the image of him running his cup against the bars, like a monkey w/ a tin cup! :)

BTW - I don't really think he gets conjugal visits, does he? BLAH if he does! Besides, I'm not convinced they EVER had sex, just a contract deal thing, imo.

[vonna]

WHAT!!! It isn't May yet? I'm having trouble with this retirement stint, I keep losing my calendar!

Thanks all...

Alldone - you will soon find out like the rest of us retirees - that the only problem with being retired is that you never get a day off!

[vonna]

OK - let's just STOP here. PS only married twice. First when he was very young. Second lust/control over Ronnie.

IMO he was never "looking" for a companion or wife in his later life.

IMO Rachelle is a PR play because of his predicament. She is a paid assistant - nothing else. While she maybe had "sex" with PS during this time, I'm sure it was only part of her "contract".

Again IMO PS doesn't give a sh*t for this wh*re. She is only around because PS can use her.

I say - Don't get your hinies in an uproar over "conjugal sex" - it has not and ain't going to happen.

Sorry to spoil the joke party - I'm ALWAYS up for humor!

Because...I am The Jester!

I would like to know if there is anyone - besides himself- about whom he does give a darn. It's difficult for me to fathom.

[alldone]

Alldone - you will soon find out like the rest of us retirees - that the only problem with being retired is that you never get a day off!

I really do have a schedule, mondays I clean the downstairs, tuesday I clean the upstairs, wednesday I mow the lawn, thursdays I dig around in my flower beds, Friday's I run errands, Sat/Sun I plan trips and do laundry.

Exciting isn't it? I will tell you this when I want to take a nap I just put on Jamie, that lady puts me right to sleep.

I have to say every time I think about Phil, I start to giggle at the thought of him behind bars. It also makes me sad but what really pisses me off is the way he treats Gary and Louis. They didn't ask to be adopted by that crazy person. Shame on the system that allowed him to bring home the boys as a present and then to emotionally abandon them so completely. I am amazed that they grew into such fine men.

[kennedy06]

There is one question I have if Michelle ever writes a book or any of you ever ask her questions to her what became of the ex police officer/bodyguard/friend J. Romaine? The gentleman went with or arrived at the jail with Michelle the night he was taken into custody. No not like how is he doing, but did he stay by PS side? We know what became of Marvin M. (famed palimony attorney) and Shapiro, the friendships soured and obviously Michelle's, but what about that guy that was in the mix early on. He was the gentleman listed by the court documents as having been at least at one point sitting at the table with PS and Norma K. the night of her gun threatening incident at a restaurant. Her story was not allowed in for PS2. I hope the guy is still with us and all, but it seems he did sort of escape the media on all this. Just a part of the story I guess.

JMO

[bearwds]

Sent off inquiry to Legal Edge this morning for sentencing broadcast request.

Will Post any reply.


bearwds

[cherylt]

Sent off inquiry to Legal Edge this morning for sentencing broadcast request.

Will Post any reply.


bearwds


Thanks for that! I check there every so often and they haven't done anything else besides OJ... I wonder what happened to MB? He made it sound like he would follow alot of live trials and pick up the ball when there is only replays on TV. I almost forgot about them until you mentioned LEdge.

I know he said it was too expensive to cover PS II, but if that one is too expensive, how ould others not be the same? Oh well, hopefully, he may be able to do something w/ the sentencing. We can probably discount IS on covering it. (big sigh)

[cherylt]

FROM ALLDONE -Exciting isn't it? I will tell you this when I want to take a nap I just put on Jamie, that lady puts me right to sleep.

I have to say every time I think about Phil, I start to giggle at the thought of him behind bars. It also makes me sad but what really pisses me off is the way he treats Gary and Louis. They didn't ask to be adopted by that crazy person. Shame on the system that allowed him to bring home the boys as a present and then to emotionally abandon them so completely. I am amazed that they grew into such fine men.[/QUOTE]

*******************************
lol - re: taking a nap. Make sure the volume is low though because screeches can happen & rouse you... :)

I feel the same way re: how it feels now that PS is in jail. Happy he's there but sad for Lana and her mom... Very sad for Gary & Louis. You are so right - they did not ask to be adopted by someone who isn't even emotionally capable of caring for someone. Maybe that has something to do w/ his own background, but it is not right to take on kids if you have nothing internally heartfelt to give them. They are not presents! I hope all this runs through his mind eternally now that he has all the time in the world to think about all the people he has harmed & let down (IF he even goes that deep). As always, MOO.

Of course, there's always the chance that he is just feeling sorry for himself. Ya think? :lol:

[Mort_Snerd]

Yes, I have an opinion about this case and yes, my views tend towards the hawkish side. If I had been on the jury and with what I saw for evidence, I would have voted for Murder 1, if it had been offered. At this point in time, Harvey Phillip Spector has had his fair trail and been judged by a jury of his peers and found guilty of Murder 2. He is now a convicted murderer and felon. This is the law and are the facts of the case to date. I derive no joy from the fact that Mr. Spector is in jail but rather satisfaction that the Justice system worked and gave results that agree with my belief in the evidence. If any appeals are successful, I can and will rethink the appellate issues to see if my views are in error and if so, will change them.

The basic flaw in what I saw of this trial and method of justice by prosecution and defense is that there was no side to representing the victim from which the laws were designed to protect and from which the case flowed!

The Judge:
His job is to maintain order in the courtroom and make decisions based on the laws involved in the case. Judge Fidler performed his job exceptionally well in my opinion. The proof will be in the appeal process and any other opinion is just that, opinion. If there are no successful appeals, he did his job.

The Prosecution:
Their job is to bring the accused to a court of law and win a conviction based on the evidence. They, by the very nature of their job, believe that the accused is guilty of the charges. That is their job and convictions are the yardstick by which job performance is measured. They are paid for by our tax dollars and represent us, the public.

The Defense:
Their job is to defend the accused in a court of law and to win a Not Guilty verdict or a dismissal of the charge(s). A hung jury is neither “not guilty” nor a “guilty” verdict; it is no verdict at all! Both sides lost. As a defense attorney, tie games do not earn you bragging rights in my opinion.

Missing Link:
This job should be included in the well of the courtroom to provide “morality” and protections to the memory of the victim, after all, why are all the other parties there to begin with? As a parent and a human being, I was offended by some of the actions of the parties involved with the trial. Lana Jean Clarkson’s human and civil rights did not just end with her death.

What do both sides have to add??

Mortie

[GPSpector]

What both sides should have had was "respect" and it saddened me to see that respect only came from 1 side.:sad:

[Mort_Snerd]

Harvey Phillip Spector, the Judge, the Prosecutor, the Defense and the members of the Jury all deserved respect in the courtroom. The sad truth of the legal and the justice system is that there is no “respect” legally guaranteed to the victim. From his excellent opening strategy of denying Bruce Cutler his thunder to the equally brilliant last statement to the jury of “Don’t go!” all of Alan Jackson’s planning and words were devoted to winning the case. Yes, he had enormous respect for Lana Jean and the Clarkson family but his job was to win a conviction for the State of California and the city/county of Los Angles. The Defense’s job was to win a Not Guilty verdict or to have the case thrown out. Mistrials are not wins or proof of satisfactory job performance. They had no evidence to prove their assertions so they resorted to throwing all manner of negative evidence they could find onto the wall of the courtroom. Trash is trash, whether it is an “electronic wastebasket”, words of a vindictive person or a very narrow minded paid professional expert.

Lana Clarkson deserved better treatment from all sides in room 106.


What both sides should have had was "respect" and it saddened me to see that respect only came from 1 side.:sad:

To the Spector sons,
I wish I had the emotional stability and ability that you have demonstrated during this period of time. You both have my utmost respect and wishes for a Happy Birthday.

Love,
Mortie

[Mort_Snerd]

In response to the Court Jester, I will start a thread for possible appeal issues with links and excerpts.

My listing of my ideas of what possible appeals could be does not constitute my endorsement of the issue. My view is that it was a fair trial with accurate results. It is not my job nor is it my desire to assist the defense team. I am not an attorney, I have not taken any law courses nor do I present myself as an expert. I followed the case and listened to what was said and written about the trials.

-CJ- What does it mean if I can remember Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra performances?

Didn't we used to have a PS Not Guilty Thread? I seem to remember one. But then, I remember seeing The Doors in person so I'm waaay old.
. . . < S N I P > . . .
I think it might be a good idea to start a Spector Appeal thread. The people who believe there could or will be an appeal can post their opinions and reasons there without backlash.

But "without backlash" means that those of us who lean the other way should NOT post one line comments such as "He's guilty - live with it". As I have read, we here have jumped on the pro-PS people for just that: issuing statements without back-up. We need to afford these posters with the same courtesy. Let them have their say, on their own thread.

I, for one, am curious as to the legal grounds an appeal may take and would definitely read this thread, ask questions and DISCUSS the issues. And for those people who cannot keep their kool...stay off the Appeals thread.
CJ

The jury in a trial is the “Fact Finder” and their opinion is their own and comes after attending the entire case and NOT subject to appeal.

If it can be shown that a juror performed an illegal act in making their decision, the act needs to be litigated and only after being proven and a conviction obtained, would it cause a mistrial, not a reason for appeal.

If a witness deliberately lies or distorts the truth under oath, they are subject to arrest and trial for perjury and it would cause a mistrial if convicted and would not be grounds for an appeal.

Appellate issues are generally considered as errors made by attorneys and judges in a trial. To create a record of an appealable issue, the appellant must start by creating a record of the error via an objection during the trial and have it recorded in the record at the time it occurred.

Issue 1, Prior bad acts.

Prior bad acts by a defendant are not admissible in a trial as they might prejudice a juror. There are exceptions to this rule and in this case prior bad act witnesses were allowed in under 1101(b). This was a judge decided issue that was objected to and will be appealed.
COMMON SCHEME OR PLAN

Under California Penal Code section 1101(b) of the Evidence Code evidence of both charged and uncharged misconduct (cases where an offender is suspected, but not charges have been filed) may be admitted for the purpose of demonstrating a common plan, scheme, or design if the offenses are sufficiently similar (People v. Ewoldt (1994) 7 Cal.4th 380).

People v. Ewoldt (1994) 7 Cal.4th 380 does state that evidence of prior uncharged sexual acts is admissible at a subsequent trial for sexual offenses, in order to show a common design or plan on the part of the defendant. However, the court also found that "evidence of uncharged misconduct" may only be admissible if it is "sufficiently similar" to the charged offense "to support the inference that they are manifestations of a common design or plan."

No concrete definition of "sufficiently similar" is in use, meaning that there is no definite standard by which the courts are suggesting similarities must be evidenced.

Reference: http://www.corpus-delicti.com/signature_law.html
Reference: http://www.lacba.org/Files/LAL/Vol27No4/2035.pdf


Issue 2, improper cross-examinations of expert witnesses.

The attorneys for the defense team made many objections to the cross examination of their experts.


Reference: http://www.clrc.ca.gov/pub/BKST/BKST-811-Mendez2-Experts.pdf

Page 19, Section G: Cross-Examining Experts(note 130)


Mortie