Wednesday 15th April

[Anakerie]

It's not unusual for private medical info to get out to the public. I seem to remember a fairly recent incident where several hospital workers were terminated or disciplined because they had been caught looking up some celebrity's medical records... can't remember who the celebrity was, though.

No different than how the rape and molestation charges came out in this case, before there was an official announcement. Not hard to find someone willing to talk.
Are you thinking of the hospital workers being fired from Kaiser Hospital because they were "snooping" in the octomom's records? That's the only recent case I remember hearing about...

Personally, I think the media (And that includes JVM and NG!) should keep their noses out of the child's medical records. If it's necessary to the case, let it come out in court.. Otherwise, it's no one's busines... That's just my opinion though...

[oodi]

Are you thinking of the hospital workers being fired from Kaiser Hospital because they were "snooping" in the octomom's records? That's the only recent case I remember hearing about...

Personally, I think the media should keep their noses out of the child's medical records. If it's necessary to the case, let it come out in court.. Otherwise, it's no one's busines... That's just my opinion though...

I forgot about that one... I was thinking of one several months ago... maybe Farrah Fawcett, but I'm not sure.

I agree with you on the medical records, but reporters wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't ask the questions... it's just too bad that they find people willing to answer in some cases.

[cali650]

Are you thinking of the hospital workers being fired from Kaiser Hospital because they were "snooping" in the octomom's records? That's the only recent case I remember hearing about...
(edit)


And also UCLA with Britney Spears. Fired many for med record snooping.
I think most healthcare workers are patient advocates and respect privacy.

[Details]

That is what I was referring to........she may have mental issues by medical standards but they do not rise to the judicial criminal standard of insanity and I do not think she will be found incompetent to stand trial.

I am not sure what you mean about you can be totally incompetent and sane at the same time. Do you mean if the defendant has a low IQ? I am not sure what you are referring to when it pertains to the justice system.

imoLow IQ, mental retardation, children, etc. Low IQ would be the only thing here, and it's obvious she doesn't fall into that category - but just to have all those details correct, I wanted to split the two - mentally ill doesn't mean enough to be criminally insane (insane to the point of being unable to have criminal intent) - but I think she is mentally ill, probably severely so - given the manner of the suicide attempt. That's not just trying to kill yourself, that's trying to torture yourself along the way.

Murders that have been prevented by understanding the causes - and I know that they have been - don't get advertised in the newspaper. You cannot see them, because they didn't happen. When we made new laws that locked up predator pedophiles (as we began to understand how some were uncurable, that this wasn't a crime of sex that could be controlled by mere punishment) for longer and longer, with more monitoring - murders were no doubt prevented. When we give people meds for mental problems to bring them out of severe paranoia, schitzophrenia, etc. - that no doubt prevents murders. Understanding will prevent crimes - but of course, we can't see the alternate reality of what would be without these tools.

[lunchlady]

I'm going to say honestly that sexual preference, is not evil. It's preference and does not change. She is very calculating and we know that because she attempted to lie her way around that suitcase. She's not insane by any means, just sexually deviant. And that, sadly is nothing new to the human race. I seriously don't think that it has anything to do with evil. I know that even I wrote something about being evil but then these facts were released about the abuse, now they are looking into her own child and anyone else she had access to...which is what needs to be done. Why?

Because even LE thinks she clearly had a preference. She's rather large, and a small child wouldn't have a chance in hell with someone that large looming over them. So I hope they do check with every single family she came in contact with, under the guise of "religion" and "sunday school".

I hope she doesn't try to blame this crime on her frustrated gender identity issues! Maybe she'll say if she could have afforded and arranged a sex change everything would have been fine.
This is just a passing thought, somewhat farfetched. Thinking about this woman's possible inner thoughts is getting to me.

[OneUp]

Actually, it's part of the case and her own case history if in fact this is proven to be true. The reports that the child was "sickly" and "thin" are not good indications. The other thing is keeping her indoors. Not good at all I'm afraid. We know of many victims in cases such as these, Jessica Lundsford for one. I believe they looked for other victims in his case just as they did with Chester the Molester.

It's important to find out. If the child was molested, that will become part of this case 100% sure of that. Keeping that information private because the child is a minor in a case of pedophilia is impossible. Besides, as the victim they would one day know of their own past regardless. And by the time they were adults, they would only feel a sense of helping in the case to seal the abusers fate. I would think.

This sense of secrecy in these cases is what keeps this crime alive.Actually bugout, you're wrong in thinking that a victim feels a sense of "helping" in sending an abuser to jail or treatment. Many, even most abused children suffer from enormous confliction about the abuse. This is worst when the abuser is someone close to them ( such as Madisons mother), and someone they have emotional attachment to. When we speak of pedophiles "froming" children, the biggest part of that grroming is convincing a child they are loved and have a relationship of love with the abuser ( obviously not so true with a child snatched from their room at night or off the streets by a stranger). Children suffer not only from the idea that they got someone they cared for in trouble, but from shame others teach them to feel for their own feelings and reactions to the abuse, and from a sort of survivors guilt ( because they too feel a party to the abuse acts, but they were not punished as the perp. was). They can also feel tremendous guilt ( this is often in older victims) because they didn't tell sooner, thus they feel responsible for any victims who came after them.
I know that doesn't make sense to a normal adult mind, but it's true for so many children ( and adults recovering from childhood abuse)...the confusion aspect is especially hard on the youngest ones...kids who didn't have any strong ideas of right and wrong about the abuse until it was discovered. Many children even turn on their rescuers with anger and hatred and defend the abuser ( just like with other forms of abuse/neglect).
I can say this is true, not just from my professional experience, nor from education alone either, but as an abuse/neglect/incest survivor myself.
I totally agree that secrecy is often counterproductive though...it is what has allowed interfamilial abuse to thrive for centuries...that and the broad misconceptions about "who" is an abuser.
I also agree that it is VERY important that the authorities look into every child Melissa has ever had private contact with. Any other vicitms deserve counseling and also justice. I don't necessarily think physical exams are the way to go about that though. Most abuse doesn't even involve penetration ( though obviously Sandra's did), thus it wouldn't be likely to leave any effects...perhaps some increased tendency to infection right after the abuse. The psychological signs would be the best "tell". I think Play therapy would be the best route for professionals to go about seeking out the facts from other potential young victims. Too often direct questioning, especially by the untrained, leads to "witch hunts" because of leading questions and misinterpretation. we want this monsterous thing prosecuted for what she actually has done...we don't want any more children traumatized by over zealous worried parents or untrained adults who grill them! Lets allow the lucky ones that are still innocent to remain that way!
JMO.

[OneUp]

Isn't this case just so sad bugout! ( and everyone else)...It is as if society is having their last reserves of hope for the safety of our children torn away. First the Anthony case, then this...also scores of others recently..but those two stick out. When we know we cannot even trust the mothers in society to protect our children or their own...there isn't really a safe refuge left!
This is just breaking my heart!

[taylor63]

Isn't this case just so sad bugout! ( and everyone else)...It is as if society is having their last reserves of hope for the safety of our children torn away. First the Anthony case, then this...also scores of others recently..but those two stick out. When we know we cannot even trust the mothers in society to protect our children or their own...there isn't really a safe refuge left!
This is just breaking my heart!

This case was/is such an anamoly maybe even more than the Casey Anthony case. Here you have a mother of a 5 year old little girl,and the granddaughter of a minister, and a Sunday School teacher at that. She had to have studied, or at least read the bible some. It seems if anyone should have known right from wrong, good from evil, it should have been her,and yet she committed, or at least is suspected of committing the worst crime a human being can perpertrate the murder and rape of a small child ! It just seems this world keeps getting more evil all the time. I agree it is very depressing and heartbreaking.

[taylor63]

Has anyone heard how the little 5 year old is doing? My heart breaks for her that she will eventually learn her own mom killed her bestfriend. This child is going to be traumitized by this for years. I hope and pray she is getting alot of love and support, and the family gets her counseling.

[MoonFlwr]

Has anyone heard how the little 5 year old is doing? My heart breaks for her that she will eventually learn her own mom killed her bestfriend. This child is going to be traumitized by this for years. I hope and pray she is getting alot of love and support, and the family gets her counseling.

Hi Taylor

I have not seen any news articles about the 5 year old child. I have heard posters saying they heard things about her on tv shows etc.

Maybe I've missed some news articles.....but I've seen nothing.

[TannersMom]

As a mother myself, I would take a bullet for either of my children and not even think twice about it. It is just that simple. I love them more than I love myself. That being said, I just would like to know if this woman really did rape and kill Sandra Cantu, why, why, why did she do it? Also, as a mother, I have told my 8 year old daughter, if she ever gets lost or needs help, to...(you're gonna love this one!!!) "LOOK FOR A MOMMY WITH KIDS, SHE WILL HELP YOU." NOW who am I supposed to tell my child to look to for help, if, God forbid, she needs it and I am not there???? I already know you cannot trust anyone in this world anymore, but they need to know who can help them if we are not available!!! Who is that someone????? Also, I thought I heard the devil's name when I heard John Couey, or David Westerfield, or Joseph Duncan. But now I know I have heard the devil' name in this atrocious woman. She should be shot. Simple. No question. (IF, she is in fact guilty of this crime). I truly thought I had heard it all. But a mother of a little 5 year old, Sunday School teacher and great with kids!!!!! My God!!!What is happening to the people in this world??
I agree with you and what you said on so many levels! I have a 9 year old and live in another small quiet town a couple hours away from Tracy. Our church is directly across the street from my house. Up until this I felt good knowing the kids were outside playing in the church parking lot or court yard... that way I knew they were safe! Everytime I hear something new about this case it blows my mind. What bugs me the most is how did she move an 8 year old 45-50 pound dead body put in a suitcase up into a car and out of a car all alone??? People keep saying oh ya the suitcase had rollers on it. Im 37 years old and Im not petite by any means and I know I could not move a 50 pound suitcase up into and out of a vehicle by myself. I could probably roll it but not pick it up and put it in my car. It just seems like they are being really quick to decide she was all alone and had no help. Even just to move the body. In the end she needs to be tried sentanced convicted and put to death. Dont get me started on the insanity crap they are trying to pull into this. She knows what she did and she knew what she was doing and that makes her evil not insane!:cursing:

[aproudmom]

I agree,and while I feel tremondous sympathy for this woman's family, I sure wish they would quit talking about what a sweet,gentle mother,and great person she is. It seems almost kind of insensitive to Sandra's family.

I have to agree I said it the first time they spoke they needed to carefully watch the words out of their mouths or they would only harm them self as far as the way people looked at them..saying I don't have my Granddaughter (MLH) Bad words to say it set off not only Sandra's Grandpa but many of us listening they can still hug her they can take her little girl to see her Sandra's family does not have that...

I wish they would get off of the Sunday School Teacher I am afraid it will only scare children worse than some are already, will they be afraid of all SS teachers...imo I am not so sure she was this church going ss teacher like so many are saying have we heard from parents from churches of how wonderful she was?NO just her family that is normal they don't want to believe she is capable of this so they will say this is not the person I know...JMO

[aproudmom]

As a mother myself, I would take a bullet for either of my children and not even think twice about it. It is just that simple. I love them more than I love myself. That being said, I just would like to know if this woman really did rape and kill Sandra Cantu, why, why, why did she do it? Also, as a mother, I have told my 8 year old daughter, if she ever gets lost or needs help, to...(you're gonna love this one!!!) "LOOK FOR A MOMMY WITH KIDS, SHE WILL HELP YOU." NOW who am I supposed to tell my child to look to for help, if, God forbid, she needs it and I am not there???? I already know you cannot trust anyone in this world anymore, but they need to know who can help them if we are not available!!! Who is that someone????? Also, I thought I heard the devil's name when I heard John Couey, or David Westerfield, or Joseph Duncan. But now I know I have heard the devil' name in this atrocious woman. She should be shot. Simple. No question. (IF, she is in fact guilty of this crime). I truly thought I had heard it all. But a mother of a little 5 year old, Sunday School teacher and great with kids!!!!! My God!!!What is happening to the people in this world??

rox
I am so sorry but if I had younger children these days I would say trust no one. I think we are seeing teachers more often doing things to children..a lot of women teachers..and her we got a so call SS teacher don't know how much I put into that..I don't know what to tell your kids I know I have had many things I used in raising my kids and never told them to trust a stranger man or women..they have to learn to protect them self as we are seeing..and now they can talk to us as parents if they think something is not right with a friend or even them..talk talk talk is the only answer at this time IMO

[aproudmom]

Has anyone heard how the little 5 year old is doing? My heart breaks for her that she will eventually learn her own mom killed her bestfriend. This child is going to be traumitized by this for years. I hope and pray she is getting alot of love and support, and the family gets her counseling.

only thing I heard was the Tracy press reporter said she is with MLH parents or her mother other than that I have not heard..I am sure they will be talking to to her to see how she is and if she has been harmed in anyway..figured they have already...best thing for that child is to keep her away from any TV and away from the area imo

[n/t]

That is the way I feel too and I guess for me I just take the cases as they come and gender of the defendant isn't really important to me. I can understand why some want to know the "why" but for me it is fruitless as nothing will ever make this understandable and not one killer has been recognized before they decided to murder their victim(s). So psychoanalyzing them afterward is too late imo.

I think the reluctance to believe these things is because Huckaby is a female. I highly doubt that all the issues discussed would be paramount if the murderer/rapist had been a slimy male. But, imo being a woman or even a mother doesn't put some kind of special shield around anyone and make them incapable of such acts. How I wish that was true.

Maybe it is because in the past two years I have read the most horrific articles about what some mothers are capable of doing. So it isn't shocking to me at all that MH did these crimes. 60% of all children sexually abused are abused by acquaintances, such as a neighbor or a friend of the family.

I do hope though that this case will bring to the forefront that the child sexual predator is not always a male. Imo, even LE needs to rethink their positions on cases, especially unsolved cases and realize that the predator may indeed be a female.

imo

I didn't want to snip your post because what you said is exactly how I feel and I totally agree with you that LE better start sharpening their pencils and opening up their unsolved cases because this may not be the first case of a woman raping and murdering a child.

Jon Benet Ramsey, Haleigh Cummings come to mind as so many others......

[aproudmom]

Hi Taylor

I have not seen any news articles about the 5 year old child. I have heard posters saying they heard things about her on tv shows etc.

Maybe I've missed some news articles.....but I've seen nothing.

Morning Moon
well today is going to be a sad day for so many I did finally get some sleep last night, just knowing Sandra was laid to rest gave me some comfort and it looks like they had a wonderful service for her as sad as it was she was a little princess on that horse drawn carriage, may god comfort her family as they try to go on without their baby:crying:

we opening a new thread or keeping this one since it is not at 1000 yet?

[indie lost]

only thing I heard was the Tracy press reporter said she is with MLH parents or her mother other than that I have not heard..I am sure they will be talking to to her to see how she is and if she has been harmed in anyway..figured they have already...best thing for that child is to keep her away from any TV and away from the area imo

The mother is in jail. I doubt her child is there with her. JMO...

[aproudmom]

I didn't want to snip your post because what you said is exactly how I feel and I totally agree with you that LE better start sharpening their pencils and opening up their unsolved cases because this may not be the first case of a woman raping and murdering a child.

Jon Benet Ramsey, Haleigh Cummings come to mind as so many others......

ITA with you and GB we have to stop this thing of no way could women do that well we are seeing it more and more and maybe it has been going on but no one ever looked unless it was some scary looking man in a white van..why I say white van I always remember this man in my town lived close to my GP he chopped up a man with a garden hoe killed the man over feeding some women's horse that was starving and it was the women who told he to do it..we were terrified when we would see him coming down the road cause of course yr ago he spent very little time in a mental place..that was well over 35 yrs ago..he still freaks me out when I go back home he is always at the carnivals I am a grown women and still walk as fast as I can to get away..but the women was the one that told him to do it...a girl that worked for me her mother was the first women on Death Row in Indiana of course it has been overturned to life she had 2 husband killed the 2nd one killed the first one said it was self defence a few years later hubby 2 she got 4 family members to help and they laid a log across a road he got out and he was blown away. so there has always been evil women..this was also many years ago 20 plus IIRC My brother in law was the asst pros on her case..It is time to stop thinking only men are evil I think there has been evil women for many years...

[MoonFlwr]

Morning Moon
well today is going to be a sad day for so many I did finally get some sleep last night, just knowing Sandra was laid to rest gave me some comfort and it looks like they had a wonderful service for her as sad as it was she was a little princess on that horse drawn carriage, may god comfort her family as they try to go on without their baby:crying:

we opening a new thread or keeping this one since it is not at 1000 yet?

Hiya aproudmom :)

Yes, beautiful horse-drawn carriage...

So sad.

We should open a new thread for a new day... :)
Want to do the honours, mom? (All you do is go to Sandra's main page....and find the button at the top of the page (left) and click on new thread). And add a title.

[aproudmom]

The mother is in jail. I doubt her child is there with her. JMO...

her mother not her

[aproudmom]

The mother is in jail. I doubt her child is there with her. JMO...

Just to make it clear I know she is in jail when I said her mother I meant MLH mother sorry if it was not clear enough..The father of MLH has been seen but not her mother so I took it that she may have her out of the area since they were on a planned trip since the day after Sandra went missing. sorry if it was not worded and was misleading to sound like she was with Melissa H.

only thing I heard was the Tracy press reporter said she is with MLH parents or her mother other than that I have not heard..I am sure they will be talking to to her to see how she is and if she has been harmed in anyway..figured they have already...best thing for that child is to keep her away from any TV and away from the area imo

[MoonFlwr]

I didn't want to snip your post because what you said is exactly how I feel and I totally agree with you that LE better start sharpening their pencils and opening up their unsolved cases because this may not be the first case of a woman raping and murdering a child.

Jon Benet Ramsey, Haleigh Cummings come to mind as so many others......

Wow! Excellent point, n/t!

[aproudmom]

Hiya aproudmom :)

Yes, beautiful horse-drawn carriage...

So sad.

We should open a new thread for a new day... :)
Want to do the honours, mom? (All you do is go to Sandra's main page....and find the button at the top of the page (left) and click on new thread). And add a title.

SORRY
ok you want to me try to do it.. I will try sorry was looking up a case I was familiar with..did not even see your reply..ok I will try

[aproudmom]

I think I got it Moon

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352016

new thread for today

[MoonFlwr]

I think I got it Moon

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352016

new thread for today

Woo! Go mom! ;)

[darcie]

The sad thing is that sexual abuse has been going on since the beginning of time. It will continue until the end of time. People have always turned a blind eye to it. It's an uncomfortable topic. It was hushed hushed in the home. It wasn't talked about. It wasn't addressed.

It's petrifying to think that evil lurks behind the church doors, but it does. Sexual abuse in the schools has become a norm. Sexual abuse in the home has been hidden for years. When it happened it was hidden, covered, as if it didn't exist.

The catholic church is a prime example. There are more benefits for the abuser than assitance for the abused. They haven't addressed the evil, they have covered their tracks. The American people have said...hey...it's okay. We are a forgiving people. Forgiveness has taken the place of actions.

Until people stand up and give the children a voice, it will never change. Until sexual abuse is confronted as the evil it is, it will always win.

The abuse is now going a step futher. Murder. They take the childs soul when the abuse takes place. The abuser abuses the body, but silently kills the childs soul. Now, we have abusers going one step further. Taking their life, literally.

How wretched it is that a child last moments on earth are revolved around evil. Not only have they had their heart and soul shattered by the abuse, their life is snuffed out of them, and they are discarded as trash. The sad thing is that child already felt like discarded trash by the sexual abuse alone.

What a way to die. What a way to spend your last moments.

Now we as Americans accept the abusers excuses. We give them chances. We allow them into our society.

In my eyes, once an abuser...always an abuser. They need to be put away.....permanently.

MOO