Nicholas Francisco, Missing Since 2-13-08

[RainyNiteNTx]

Per CW's request, here is the new thread for Nicholas.

[CaresForKids]

14 months today. :sad:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy ME, us, we are! (in answer to your sig)

:rose:

^5 bugout - we're doing the best we can with what we have :)

[Musterion]

Thanks for starting the thread, Rainy!

Hi bugout and CFK, I was thinking about the 14 month anniversary of Nicholas' disappearance as well today.

He's missed a lot with his children. Birth, birthdays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, two Valentine's Days. Etc.

Praying for Nicholas and his family.

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

IMO.
M.

[invreporter1105]

Thanks Rainy for starting the new thread.

http://findnicholasfrancisco.com/

[invreporter1105]

Here are some links from archive.org's cache of thefranciscos.com.

From Oct. 2006, includes images:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061023183541/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

From Nov. 2006, includes entries and pics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061103035624/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

From Nov. 2006, includes entries and pics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061111174921/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

From Nov. 2006, includes entries and pics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061116095400/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

From Nov. 2006, includes entries and pics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061128145225/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

[invreporter1105]

Hopefully I am not boring those who have already seen these links. I am posting them for anyone who may not be familiar with this case.

Mars Hill Church website postings regarding Nicholas Francisco:
http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

[invreporter1105]

Links regarding Nicholas Francisco:

http://www.isthisyour.name/Nicholas_Francisco.htm

[Musterion]

Hopefully I am not boring those who have already seen these links. I am posting them for anyone who may not be familiar with this case.

Mars Hill Church website postings regarding Nicholas Francisco:
http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

Not boring at all, Inv. I'm glad you are reposting some of these. It's good to reread them and maybe see something different than we saw before!

Thanks!
IMO.
M.

[Shelby1]

Hi everyone!

Thanks, for starting the new thread, Rainy and thanks to INV for posting the links.

I'm really glad that people are still here trying to find Nicholas. I'm guessing that there are people out there that are wishing we weren't still digging for answers, but we are!

[RainyNiteNTx]

Not boring at all, Inv. I'm glad you are reposting some of these. It's good to reread them and maybe see something different than we saw before!

Thanks!
IMO.
M.

Morning everybody - I wish we had had the forethought to start a new thread about three pages before CW closed it. There was a lot of good discussion going on, with interesting posts from SilverDove,Cheri, Musterion, INV, etc. Is there a way to bring the last couple of pages over here? Off to work now, but will look into it when I have time.

[Cheri_G]

Morning everybody - I wish we had had the forethought to start a new thread about three pages before CW closed it. There was a lot of good discussion going on, with interesting posts from SilverDove,Cheri, Musterion, INV, etc. Is there a way to bring the last couple of pages over here? Off to work now, but will look into it when I have time.

Mornin' Rainy,

You could ask CW if she would merge the last few pages of the previous thread into this one.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Here are some links from archive.org's cache of thefranciscos.com.

From Nov. 2006, includes entries and pics:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061128145225/http://www.thefranciscos.com/

Thanks for the reminder links. Had forgotten about the unloved, lonely, and sad snowman.
jmo

[Nen]

Wow, so from that one link it sounds like his wife (ex?) thinks he was leading a double life and that's why he vanished.

[CaresForKids]

Amazing, ain't it?

[Nen]

Sorry, I just hadn't heard any of this before tonight. I'd actually only heard about this briefly when he first went missing. That's the last place my mind goes when someone goes missing. But I assume she has good reason and proof to think he may be just out there with a different name and life. But then again the article doesn't really say she thinks he's ok. But I guess filing for divorce says a lot. Now I'm rambling. Sorry.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Hopefully I am not boring those who have already seen these links. I am posting them for anyone who may not be familiar with this case.

Mars Hill Church website postings regarding Nicholas Francisco:
http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/


Said Lead Pastor, Jamie Munson,

“Although, the Francisco family recently left Mars Hill Church, as Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”

http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

Apparently before expressing his concern and well wishes, the MH Lead Pastor first wanted the audience to know the families status within the congregation. Why?

Do any friends of the family know who decided to leave MHC? TIA

[SeattleEddie]

Their reason for deciding to leave Mars Hill is top secret.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Their reason for deciding to leave Mars Hill is top secret.

Information that tightly guarded could be highly important, IMO. What is said about the best kept secrets?

[CaresForKids]

Their reason for deciding to leave Mars Hill is top secret.

Yet Nick's alleged "indiscretions" are openly spoken about by C and her cronies. What is so top secret about leaving a church? Why doesn't she speak out about that? Is it because it would make her appear less than the upstanding, bible quoting, christian, she wants us to believe, she is?

[CaresForKids]

Information that tightly guarded could be highly important, IMO. What is said about the best kept secrets?

Exactly. I am sure there is plenty of information regarding Nick's disappearance within the reason for him leaving his church.

[n/t]

Nicholas still on AMW website
http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/brief.cfm?id=53372

[Pag Boi]

Said Lead Pastor, Jamie Munson,

“Although, the Francisco family recently left Mars Hill Church, as Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”

http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

Apparently before expressing his concern and well wishes, the MH Lead Pastor first wanted the audience to know the families status within the congregation. Why?

Do any friends of the family know who decided to leave MHC? TIA

Bold above by me.

I am baffled. Could you explain how you came to believe that the pastor "wanted the audience to know the families [sic] status within the congregation?"


I didn't read anything into that statement except that the pastor was asking for prayers from congregants. I don't know why the family would even feel the need to announce to anyone that they were leaving the congregation. It's my limited experience that most worshipers simply move on to another place/sanctuary that better suits their needs. Unless there was a fallout over principles, practices or some confrontation that divides contributing parties.


There seems to be no ill will or suspicion about this tragedy.

Mars Hill members have been involved in organized searches of the Seattle area and have provided support to Christine and the Francisco’s two children. Mars Hill elders and deacons have been notified and all information on Nicholas’ disappearance has been posted on our members’ site. Most importantly, we have been in prayer for Nicholas’ safety, the comfort of his family, the police’s due diligence and a swift resolution to this troubling situation.


Does anyone know why the church supports the family and is not harboring thoughts that CF is somehow involved in NF's disappearance?

[SeattleEddie]

Good point about the need to point out the status. Also noteworthy: "....as Christians we love them" i.e. even though they are not one of us, we are Christians and we love them. So the important points are:

1. the NF and his wife are not members of the flock
2. MHC people are Christians and love even sinners
3. Therefore MHC people will pray for a missing man BTW

Typical MH

The devil's in the details.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Bold above by me.

I am baffled. Could you explain how you came to believe that the pastor "wanted the audience to know the families [sic] status within the congregation?"



IMO, the lead pastor's quote would convey the important message and could standalone without the throw-away introductory phrase.

“As Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”
http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

FWIW, apparently the website article was posted 2/17/2008 at 5:29AM, four days after NF's disappearance.

[Pag Boi]

IMO, the lead pastor's quote would convey the important message and could standalone without the throw-away introductory phrase.

“As Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”
http://westseattle.marshillchurch.org/2008/02/17/urgent-message-regarding-nicholas-francisco/

FWIW, apparently the website article was posted 2/17/2008 at 5:29AM, four days after NF's disappearance.

ITA that comments could stand alone. However, the introductory phrase could be totally innocent. There is nothing to discount that it was intended to be merely a lead in statement about someone with ties to the church. Our church offers up prayers for others with no association to our parish. I just don't see anything suspicious abt the statement. I accept that others might.


How did the pastor (or anyone else) know that the F's left the church? If it's so nefarious, then why is the church supporting anyone? The church commends LE & supports family. So do I. JMOO

[Musterion]

"A suicide, an abusive husband, a horribly unfaithful wife and now this have all come out of MH. (that I am aware of, Lord only knows what I DON'T know about, I certainly didn't ask to know these things) The laity AND the leadership bear responsibility. We need to be aware and connected in a genuine way with our Christian brothers and sisters. And if they were members of another church that they left MH for (I don't know, but I have heard that they did) then THAT church bears responsibility too." (bolding mine)

http://quinault-deploymentjourney.blogspot.com/2008/05/i-am-really-disappointed.html

[CaresForKids]

ITA that comments could stand alone. However, the introductory phrase could be totally innocent. There is nothing to discount that it was intended to be merely a lead in statement about someone with ties to the church. Our church offers up prayers for others with no association to our parish. I just don't see anything suspicious abt the statement. I accept that others might.


How did the pastor (or anyone else) know that the F's left the church? If it's so nefarious, then why is the church supporting anyone? The church commends LE & supports family. So do I. JMOO

The pastor knew because they formally resigned their membership. According to your MHC's bylaws, your resignation must be done in person and approved by the clergy. You'd know that if you were truly a member.

Why is it necessary to make it a point that someone you want your clergy to pray for is no longer a member?

"As Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”

So is he saying if the church weren't christian, they wouldn't love them or be concerned? I don't get what sort of point the pastor was making with this statement.

"Does anyone know why the church supports the family and is not harboring thoughts that CF is somehow involved in NF's disappearance?"

How do you know for sure they harbor none of these thoughts?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Do any of you Etsy folks remember a thread of support having to be redone because it mentioned MH?

The resignation from MH was no secret.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5477512&page=181

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mornin' Rainy,

You could ask CW if she would merge the last few pages of the previous thread into this one.

Thanks Cheri - I can look into that.

[Cheri_G]

Do any of you Etsy folks remember a thread of support having to be redone because it mentioned MH?

The resignation from MH was no secret.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5477512&page=181

I hadn't seen that in a while. I'd always wondered why she mentioned that Det. Holland made it clear to her she would have to be in a room alone with him.

[n/t]

Do any of you Etsy folks remember a thread of support having to be redone because it mentioned MH?

The resignation from MH was no secret.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5477512&page=181

Why was how they met so important for her to have been asked by the interviewer? She sounds disappointed that they didn't ask her that.

Do we know how they met? I don't remember.

[Cheri_G]

Why was how they met so important for her to have been asked by the interviewer? She sounds disappointed that they didn't ask her that.

Do we know how they met? I don't remember.

Not sure 'cause its been a while, but I think I read somewhere that they met in college.

[CaresForKids]

I hadn't seen that in a while. I'd always wondered why she mentioned that Det. Holland made it clear to her she would have to be in a room alone with him.

I also wondered why she sought prayers for that meeting. Prayers for what?

[Musterion]

Is Nicholas alive and in San Diego?

Any updates on this?

TIA
IMO
M.

[Cheri_G]

Is Nicholas alive and in San Diego?

Any updates on this?

TIA
IMO
M.

I doubt it. Its been more than enough time since it was first mentioned for LE to check it out. Nick is still listed as missing on the Washington State Missing Persons site.

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

[Musterion]

Remember this?

http://www.flickr.com/people/francisco/

Interesting.

Somewhere, one would think that there has to be information that could be relevant within these 'contacts'.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I doubt it. Its been more than enough time since it was first mentioned for LE to check it out. Nick is still listed as missing on the Washington State Missing Persons site.

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

Hello Ms. Cheri, :)

Gosh, I would hope that Seeking Truth would give us an update. Since she was the one who 'found' this info.

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

Hello Ms. Cheri, :)

Gosh, I would hope that Seeking Truth would give us an update. Since she was the one who 'found' this info.

IMO.
M.

Hiya Musterion,

There's a number of peeps with the name "Nick Francisco" or some variation of the name throughout California, but none of them appear to be this Nick Francisco.

[Musterion]

Hiya Musterion,

There's a number of peeps with the name "Nick Francisco" or some variation of the name throughout California, but none of them appear to be this Nick Francisco.

Right. And, can you imagine Nicholas using his real name? If he disappeared in a spur of the moment decision, or, for that matter, even long term planning....Why in the heck would he keep his real name?

Does that make any sense?

Have a good night Cheri!

IMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

Here in So Cal, Nick could blend in real well. I don't have enough fingers or toes to count the amount of men I see, each day, who look like Nick. :ohmy:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Right. And, can you imagine Nicholas using his real name? If he disappeared in a spur of the moment decision, or, for that matter, even long term planning....Why in the heck would he keep his real name?

Does that make any sense?

Have a good night Cheri!

IMO.
M.

No, it makes no sense to me at all. Does anyone remember the week-end before he went missing? Is that the week-end that their friends were down? I seem to remember it being reported that the friends were down and NF and family all had the flu or is that two different week-ends? Point being I can't imagine having the flu and opting to disappear a couple of days later. All anybody wants to do recovering from the flu is be at home IMO.

[CaresForKids]

No, it makes no sense to me at all. Does anyone remember the week-end before he went missing? Is that the week-end that their friends were down? I seem to remember it being reported that the friends were down and NF and family all had the flu or is that two different week-ends? Point being I can't imagine having the flu and opting to disappear a couple of days later. All anybody wants to do recovering from the flu is be at home IMO.

IIRC it was the stomach flu that weekend...3 days before he went missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

IIRC it was the stomach flu that weekend...3 days before he went missing.

How can that make sense? Recovering from stomach flu, no money, and a few days later, no transportation.

[Musterion]

How can that make sense? Recovering from stomach flu, no money, and a few days later, no transportation.

Hi Rainy!

Cares is right. They all had the stomach flu the weekend before the Wednesday that Nicholas went missing.

"it was stated on the Donovan blog The Francisco’s were sick with the flu and grocery shopping the weekend prior to NF’s Wednesday disappearance…"

Cheri's site. "Cry Me A River" page 1, Posted Monday, July 7, 2008.

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1603&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I believe Matt Donovan and his family came immediately, from Colorado, to be with Christine when Nicholas went missing. IIRC they stayed in a hotel and Matt's wife and little one caught the flu and felt bad they couldn't be with Christine as they were so sick.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

How can that make sense? Recovering from stomach flu, no money, and a few days later, no transportation.

And....

"It seems that we are the latest in a long string of people to be sick. Nick, Christine, and the whole family was sick the weekend before he disappeared. 2 of his sisters got it right after they arrived here, and now us. Abby vomited about 5 times in her bed last night, and I'm pretty sure I have the flu (again)."

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1603&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

IMO.
M.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Yet Nick's alleged "indiscretions" are openly spoken about by C and her cronies. What is so top secret about leaving a church? Why doesn't she speak out about that? Is it because it would make her appear less than the upstanding, bible quoting, christian, she wants us to believe, she is?

Maybe the Hillians were attempting to avoid another public shunning and its potential negative publicity by inserting distance (Franciscos left the church) and expressing support (prayers & donations)? Weren’t postings at the MH site removed by request? IIRC, on 2/20 CF requested the link on Etsy to MH be removed as it was causing problems. What problems and for whom?

IMO, LE usually seeks to understand if the missing person exhibited behavior out of their norm pattern, made life changes, received unexpected bad news (health, financial, etc) shortly before their disappearance.
jmo

[CaresForKids]

Maybe the Hillians were attempting to avoid another public shunning and its potential negative publicity by inserting distance (Franciscos left the church) and expressing support (prayers & donations)? Weren’t postings at the MH site removed by request? IIRC, on 2/20 CF requested the link on Etsy to MH be removed as it was causing problems. What problems and for whom?

IMO, LE usually seeks to understand if the missing person exhibited behavior out of their norm pattern, made life changes, received unexpected bad news (health, financial, etc) shortly before their disappearance.
jmo

I do remember C requesting posts referring to MH be removed on both etsy and the MH board. Also you are correct about the line of questioning LE does when investigating a person's disappearance. They are vital questions and need to be answered openly and honestly. Maybe C didn't think Nick's resignation from MHC was of any importance but in fact it may have been mentally devastating to him. I still to this day do not believe KCSO thoroughly investigated this case nor questioned C to their fullest extent. Where I worked for LE, we questioned people more for a missing dog than KCSO even began to for Nick.

Wasn't there a sheriff in the department, investigating this case, who was a current member of MHC?

[SeattleEddie]

Wasn't there a sheriff in the department, investigating this case, who was a current member of MHC?

That's interesting. I don't remember that. I do remember some talk about someone connected to Heritage Condominiums where NF car was found.

[CaresForKids]

That's interesting. I don't remember that. I do remember some talk about someone connected to Heritage Condominiums where NF car was found.

It may have just been speculation but I do remember a discussion somewhere about one of the Det's being a member. I have to look for it later.

[CaresForKids]

C's sister had been staying there and I believe it was stated she had been sleeping on their couch. I forgot about that little detail!

[MystryPhobia]

I just got an alert from the local media that said the the body of an adult man has been found down under pier 52 in Seattle.

I came here to see if anyone thought it could be Nicholas but haven't seen it mentioned. Doesn't say how long they were in the water or anything like that and I am not even sure that if he was in the water.. it would still be a body after a year but I can't remember if anyone else is missing.. except the woman that they think was on that ferry but never left.

Prayers for whoever it is! :sad:

[CaresForKids]

I just got an alert from the local media that said the the body of an adult man has been found down under pier 52 in Seattle.

I came here to see if anyone thought it could be Nicholas but haven't seen it mentioned. Doesn't say how long they were in the water or anything like that and I am not even sure that if he was in the water.. it would still be a body after a year but I can't remember if anyone else is missing.. except the woman that they think was on that ferry but never left.

Prayers for whoever it is! :sad:

It wouldn't be recognizable after a year sorry to say.

[Shelby1]

I just got an alert from the local media that said the the body of an adult man has been found down under pier 52 in Seattle.

I came here to see if anyone thought it could be Nicholas but haven't seen it mentioned. Doesn't say how long they were in the water or anything like that and I am not even sure that if he was in the water.. it would still be a body after a year but I can't remember if anyone else is missing.. except the woman that they think was on that ferry but never left.

Prayers for whoever it is! :sad:

Omg....yes. Prayers for who ever it is......

Thanks for the alert.

[MystryPhobia]

It wouldn't be recognizable after a year sorry to say.

Well.. their quote is.. "did not go in the water today" according to this article.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html

I know that there was a woman's body found in the river in my hometown a few blocks away from where she was last seen.. it had been in the water for 9 months and was still recognizable.. other than they needed a crane to pull her out. That is fresh water tho... not sure about salt water.

[Cheri_G]

Here's some articles on it. They say its a man's body, found in about 3-5 feet of water under the pier and has been in the water more than 24 hours. No obvious signs of foul play but they don't believe he fell in.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009088750_apwaferryterminalbody.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/166897.asp

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_042009WAB-seattle-pier-body-SW.f33d368d.html

[CaresForKids]

Well.. their quote is.. "did not go in the water today" according to this article.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html

I know that there was a woman's body found in the river in my hometown a few blocks away from where she was last seen.. it had been in the water for 9 months and was still recognizable.. other than they needed a crane to pull her out. That is fresh water tho... not sure about salt water.

Nick's been missing just over 14 months...almost 6 months longer. I don't know how they recognized the woman's face after 9 months unless she had some sort of remarkable features such as a tattoo or scar. Laci Peterson had to be positively identified by DNA samples and she wasn't even underwater more than 2 months. Washington's waters may be colder than California's and that would help preserve the body longer, however. As with everything in life, anything is possible and can and does happen.

[SeattleEddie]

Pier 52 is a transportation terminal for ferry passengers, with a large volume of people passing through on a daily basis. It is about two miles from Publicis. At approx. pier 49 or 50 is a park where homeless people often would gather and drink, although that area has been roped off for months. I would have guessed the body to be Lynn Stafford-Yilmaz's, who disappeared from the ferry, but apparently the body is well enough preserved to ascertain it's male.

[Musterion]

Well.. their quote is.. "did not go in the water today" according to this article.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html

I know that there was a woman's body found in the river in my hometown a few blocks away from where she was last seen.. it had been in the water for 9 months and was still recognizable.. other than they needed a crane to pull her out. That is fresh water tho... not sure about salt water.

I just saw that too, Mystry.

Could it be Nicholas? Anything is possible.

Will be watching for updates.

IMO
M.

[MystryPhobia]

Pier 52 is a transportation terminal for ferry passengers, with a large volume of people passing through on a daily basis. It is about two miles from Publicis. At approx. pier 49 or 50 is a park where homeless people often would gather and drink, although that area has been roped off for months. I would have guessed the body to be Lynn Stafford-Yilmaz's, who disappeared from the ferry, but apparently the body is well enough preserved to ascertain it's male.

I first thought of Lynn too except they said it was male.

I think there was also a boat or jet ski accident involving 2 men, in the recent past.. and only one of the men was found. I could be remembering wrong about that being around here.

It most likely isn't Nicholas but the proximity to Publicist and the "near water" made me immediately think of him.

[MystryPhobia]

Nick's been missing just over 14 months...almost 6 months longer. I don't know how they recognized the woman's face after 9 months unless she had some sort of remarkable features such as a tattoo or scar. Laci Peterson had to be positively identified by DNA samples and she wasn't even underwater more than 2 months. Washington's waters may be colder than California's and that would help preserve the body longer, however. As with everything in life, anything is possible and can and does happen.

They knew immediately that it was a woman's body.. I don't know that they made a positive ID on the scene.. I am sure that they also confirmed her ID with DNA. I was just saying that they knew it was a woman pretty quickly because it was all over the news before they even had the body out of the water.

Laci Peterson was missing for almost 4 months before she was found.. and was believed to be weighed down by something that possibly caused parts of her body to be seperated from other parts. I am not convinced that someones body that is just dropped in the water would end up in the same condition as hers but I really don't know that much about that stuff.

We also have no idea what happened to Nicholas or when it happened. I have to wonder why they are saying that they don't believe that he just fell in. Why would they say that.. unless they saw something at the scene?

[Cury-us Coyote]

Watch video and remember context regarding 'fell in .......(long pause) today'
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html


MAYBE
Disabled Man Missing From Shoreline Home
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19005650/detail.html

[CaresForKids]

They knew immediately that it was a woman's body.. I don't know that they made a positive ID on the scene.. I am sure that they also confirmed her ID with DNA. I was just saying that they knew it was a woman pretty quickly because it was all over the news before they even had the body out of the water.

Laci Peterson was missing for almost 4 months before she was found.. and was believed to be weighed down by something that possibly caused parts of her body to be seperated from other parts. I am not convinced that someones body that is just dropped in the water would end up in the same condition as hers but I really don't know that much about that stuff.

We also have no idea what happened to Nicholas or when it happened. I have to wonder why they are saying that they don't believe that he just fell in. Why would they say that.. unless they saw something at the scene?

It would be determinable if the body is a female or male no matter what the condition. You stated they identified her right out of the water making it sound as if her face was perfectly intact. Decomp happens rather quickly underwater...look at poor Caylee and she was even in a plastic bag! With Laci, it's possible, being tied and weighted down, for parts to have been torn away with the current and fish feeding on her. (Sorry if that provides a graphic image) For them to say it didn't look like this man "just fell in", though, is rather odd, especially after saying it didn't appear there to be any foul play. If he didn't fall in then he most likely was pushed...that would assume foul play, IMO, unless he jumped but was the pier high enough and the water deep enough to cause any real damage?

Currents, water temps, freshwater vs. salt water, feeders, time, these sorts of things all have an effect on conditions. With Sandra Cantu, they had to run a DNA match as well. I can't answer what makes one person decompose faster or slower than the next but elements surrounding them, all do play a part in it for sure.

[CaresForKids]

Watch video and remember context regarding 'fell in .......(long pause) today'
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html


MAYBE
Disabled Man Missing From Shoreline Home
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19005650/detail.html

Didn't fall in ~or however he got there~ today...

[Cury-us Coyote]

Detectives reopen cold cases, look for public for help

"Somebody knows about these crimes," Tompkins said. "Life situations have changed, relationships have changed. … All we need is a name to go forward."

HAVE A TIP FOR DETECTIVES?

Contact Det. Jake Pavlovich at 206-205-7887 or by e-mail at john.pavlovich@kingcounty.gov.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405333_coldcase21ww.html

[MystryPhobia]

Watch video and remember context regarding 'fell in .......(long pause) today'
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19230099/detail.html


MAYBE
Disabled Man Missing From Shoreline Home
http://www.kirotv.com/news/19005650/detail.html

Daniel Hunt was located.

I had to laugh at that article that you posted tho. It is titled "Disabled Man Missing From Shoreline Home".. as you continue to read it.. it again says that he is missing from his Shoreline home and it says the info is from a person from the Lynnwood PD.. (two completely different cities) then it goes on to say he was last seen at a park and ride in Lynnwood. Did the reporter not think to check why the Lynnwood PD was looking for him if he was missing from Shoreline and how he could be missing from 2 different places? I know of a few people on here.. including you that would do a far better job of writing those updates for news agencies. It is always so frustrating how much they mess up.

http://www.ci.lynnwood.wa.us/police/LPDContent/News/P-20090324.asp

She says.. "we don't believe that he fell in the water.. or how he got there.. today" I didn't notice a long pause but I took it to mean that they didn't believe he just fell in the water or know how he got there.. today.. meaning.. they don't have answers to that today. That was how I took it, anyway. But.. could see how she could have meant a couple different things.

[Pag Boi]

I also wondered why she sought prayers for that meeting. Prayers for what?


Maybe she prayed for the strength not to confess whatever it is some think she did? I am dying to know about any/all her evil actions. I want to believe there has got to be something to all this suspicion cast upon her.

[n/t]

Was the body identified? Is it a woman? The posts are confusing.

[Pag Boi]

The pastor knew because they formally resigned their membership. According to your MHC's bylaws, your resignation must be done in person and approved by the clergy. You'd know that if you were truly a member.

Why is it necessary to make it a point that someone you want your clergy to pray for is no longer a member?

"As Christians we love them and are profoundly concerned for Nicholas’ safety and the well being of the family.”

So is he saying if the church weren't christian, they wouldn't love them or be concerned? I don't get what sort of point the pastor was making with this statement.

"Does anyone know why the church supports the family and is not harboring thoughts that CF is somehow involved in NF's disappearance?"

How do you know for sure they harbor none of these thoughts?

LOLOL

Semantics


"According to your MHC's bylaws"
WTW do you mean? I don't get it. TIA

So the pastor must approve resignation? And if you don't submit your resignation, the repercussions are????


"As Christians"

Do all Christians share the exact same beliefs in your world? Do you have any idea what transpired in the church before NF disappeared? Wasn't one pastor forced to resign due to his alleged unspoken behavior? Just b/c we don't accept one's choices doesn't mean we wish them harm for making them. That is how I take the pastor's remarks.

As far as family/support - I just guessed that if he openly endorsed CF and LE, he knew more abt the situation than any of us. But some might see it diff. It's all good if it helps the family resolve the situation. We strangers have no say in how this gets resolved JMOO

[Cheri_G]

Was the body identified? Is it a woman? The posts are confusing.

Hi n/t,

The body is an unidentified adult male according to the reports.

[n/t]

Hi n/t,

The body is an unidentified adult male according to the reports.

Thanks Cheri. From reading the posts, it was found close to Publicist, is that correct?

I hope it's not Nicholas. :sad:

[Cheri_G]

Thanks Cheri. From reading the posts, it was found close to Publicist, is that correct?

I hope it's not Nicholas. :sad:

SeattleEddie says Publicis is about two miles from the pier. The articles said the body had been in the water longer than 24 hours but gave no indication of how much longer.

[n/t]

SeattleEddie says Publicis is about two miles from the pier. The articles said the body had been in the water longer than 24 hours but gave no indication of how much longer.


Finally got to watch the video. So they don't think he fell in. I wonder how they can determine that. I wonder if he had something wrapped around his body indicating he was weighted down.

I'll check in for any updates.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Finally got to watch the video. So they don't think he fell in. I wonder how they can determine that. I wonder if he had something wrapped around his body indicating he was weighted down.

I'll check in for any updates.

I keep checking for updates also. Surely this is not Nicholas, - this would be too eerie with Christine saying she felt he was in or near water....

[Shelby1]

I'm dying for more information. I wish we could call someone.....

[n/t]

I'm dying for more information. I wish we could call someone.....

Me too. :sad:

[CaresForKids]

LOLOL

Semantics


"According to your MHC's bylaws"
WTW do you mean? I don't get it. TIA

So the pastor must approve resignation? And if you don't submit your resignation, the repercussions are????


"As Christians"

Do all Christians share the exact same beliefs in your world? Do you have any idea what transpired in the church before NF disappeared? Wasn't one pastor forced to resign due to his alleged unspoken behavior? Just b/c we don't accept one's choices doesn't mean we wish them harm for making them. That is how I take the pastor's remarks.

As far as family/support - I just guessed that if he openly endorsed CF and LE, he knew more abt the situation than any of us. But some might see it diff. It's all good if it helps the family resolve the situation. We strangers have no say in how this gets resolved JMOO

I don't know being I am not of a Christian faith.

Don't you know what happened in your own church?? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....:tonguewag:

[CaresForKids]

I'm dying for more information. I wish we could call someone.....

I wish they would have given an apprx. amount of time they believed the body to be in the water and a description of the man.

[huskiki]

Hey everyone! Long time no chat.

Anything new on Nicholas?

[Shelby1]

I wish they would have given an apprx. amount of time they believed the body to be in the water and a description of the man.

Me TOO. That would at least tell us if it COULD be him.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hey everyone! Long time no chat.

Anything new on Nicholas?

(((((((((((Huskiki)))))))))))) so good to see you again - stick around please.

[huskiki]

(((((((((((Huskiki)))))))))))) so good to see you again - stick around please.

Thanks Rainy! I'll be sticking around :thumbsup:

I see about 1/4 of my posts are gone. What's up with that?

What's the latest on Nicholas?

[invreporter1105]

If he is Ever found in the water, CF will be up a creek without a paddle, since in her interviews that night she "felt he was near water" her exact words from several news interveiws she gave. I dont remember if that was post makeup and new do or not.
:rose:

Nicholas, where are you?

And let's also not forget she said specifically Panther Lake in Federal Way, which still hasn't been searched nor will it likely be searched. :thumbdown:

[Musterion]

Thanks Rainy! I'll be sticking around :thumbsup:

I see about 1/4 of my posts are gone. What's up with that?

What's the latest on Nicholas?

Welcome back, huskiki! Boy, we could use your input and insights! Good to see you.

IMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

Cheri and n/t have you seen this?
Read each site pay attention to the names:

http://www.etsy.com/profile.php?user_id=5242145

which links to:

http://babyhoot.blogspot.com

Remember the sewing story? Oh so familiar.

Wow the grief is palpable. Then there are the links to the soap sites.
Sewing material and soap. Yes, familiar themes with Etsy but what a coinkydink. Then there is the photo with the sunglasses on. Sister who was living with them, at the time of his disappearance? Jessica.

The sister's name is Janell, not Jessica. C's name is Christine, not Christina. The Bella mentioned on the babyhoot blog is a character from the movie & book "Twilight". Sorry Bugout but this isn't C or her sister.

[MystryPhobia]

Cheri and n/t have you seen this?
Read each site pay attention to the names:

http://www.etsy.com/profile.php?user_id=5242145

which links to:

http://babyhoot.blogspot.com

Remember the sewing story? Oh so familiar.

Wow the grief is palpable. Then there are the links to the soap sites.
Sewing material and soap. Yes, familiar themes with Etsy but what a coinkydink. Then there is the photo with the sunglasses on. Sister who was living with them, at the time of his disappearance? Jessica.

I am not sure what you are exactly trying to say by your post but you posted a link to someone's website that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. That is not this Christine and that is not her sister.. who's name is Janell.. not Jessica.

[Musterion]

And let's also not forget she said specifically Panther Lake in Federal Way, which still hasn't been searched nor will it likely be searched. :thumbdown:

Hey Inv,

That is what I don't understand.

LE says they don't know whether Nicholas walked or Nicholas met with foul play. Why in the world would they NOT search the murky little lake where Nicholas' car was found? I am trying to wrap my mind around how they could be so sure Nicholas wasn't in that lake, or his laptop, keys, etc. or the other lakes within the area in close proximity to Federal Way.

It seems like riddles. Talking in riddles. Why, though?

IMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

Hey Inv,

That is what I don't understand.

LE says they don't know whether Nicholas walked or Nicholas met with foul play. Why in the world would they NOT search the murky little lake where Nicholas' car was found? I am trying to wrap my mind around how they could be so sure Nicholas wasn't in that lake, or his laptop, keys, etc. or the other lakes within the area in close proximity to Federal Way.

It seems like riddles. Talking in riddles. Why, though?

IMO.
M.

Hiya M.. You know.. that is an interesting question. I wondered this in the beginning too and was rather disgusted that they didn't. I think when the detective stated that they would not be searching that lake or any of the other lakes in the area.. because they had no reason to believe that he was in them.. is when I started to change my mind about what happened to Nicholas.

Everytime they talked about it.. it is always stated that they do not know if he is alive and they do not know if he is dead and then they go on to add, but they have no proof at all of the latter. They never state that they have no proof that he isn't alive.. but they always add that there isn't proof he is dead??

[invreporter1105]

Hey Inv,

That is what I don't understand.

LE says they don't know whether Nicholas walked or Nicholas met with foul play. Why in the world would they NOT search the murky little lake where Nicholas' car was found? I am trying to wrap my mind around how they could be so sure Nicholas wasn't in that lake, or his laptop, keys, etc. or the other lakes within the area in close proximity to Federal Way.

It seems like riddles. Talking in riddles. Why, though?

IMO.
M.


Musterion, it does seem like riddles to me too. I remember when I was in communication with CF, which was late February 08. CF specifically mentioned Panther Lake and then immediately said "spooky, scary' in a manner I took as her making light of it. I thought this was odd because the day she said this was only a couple weeks after NF went missing. Also keep in mind that this was the same time frame in which she was pleading for the public's help and claiming she couldn't live without her husband. I just found it odd that she would be making such comments when, to the public, she appeared so distraught.

:confused:

[CaresForKids]

Evidently KCSO didn't have the financial resources to drag Panther Lake IIRC. Why C did not get a hold of TES is beyond any scope of imagination other than she KNOWS he is NOT in there. The email got "lost" excuse doesn't fly with me. She never emailed them. She also stated to her etsy supporters she "read" on their website that they only help those who live in the state of Texas. A blatant LIE. There's a reason she did not contact TES and she knows exactly why. SeekingTruth needs to start SpeakingTruth and doing so now.

[Musterion]

We've probably visited this before. It seems familiar. But, every time I run across this in the King County Recorder's office website I wonder.

02/20/1997 MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE FOX CHRISTINE ANN WERTH RONALD JAY DOM 02/15/1997 Perm

http://146.129.54.93:8193/localization/menu.asp?

Maybe it's the date. 15 February. So close to when Nicholas went missing, 13 February.

And, there was a divorce which I'll find and post.

It can't possibly be Christine but it is so odd.

IMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

Evidently KCSO didn't have the financial resources to drag Panther Lake IIRC. Why C did not get a hold of TES is beyond any scope of imagination other than she KNOWS he is NOT in there. The email got "lost" excuse doesn't fly with me. She never emailed them. She also stated to her etsy supporters she "read" on their website that they only help those who live in the state of Texas. A blatant LIE. There's a reason she did not contact TES and she knows exactly why. SeekingTruth needs to start SpeakingTruth and doing so now.

Do you have a link to the information that King County didn't have the resources? I don't remember that but do remember him saying that had no reason to believe he was there and that is why they wouldn't be looking in the lake.

[invreporter1105]

Musterion, do you recall Christine's middle initial? Isn't it A?

[SilverDove]

Cheri and n/t have you seen this?
Read each site pay attention to the names:

http://www.etsy.com/profile.php?user_id=5242145

which links to:

http://babyhoot.blogspot.com

Remember the sewing story? Oh so familiar.

Wow the grief is palpable. Then there are the links to the soap sites.
Sewing material and soap. Yes, familiar themes with Etsy but what a coinkydink. Then there is the photo with the sunglasses on. Sister who was living with them, at the time of his disappearance? Jessica.

So what in the world does this have to do with any of this. Neither of them look a bit like Christine Francisco, Christine isn't a Nanny to three children. The picture of the dog from the March 2008 isn't anything like one that Christine had then.

You do know that there is more then one Christine in all of Seattle don't you and many of them could be on etsy and sew? It is a rather large city.

This one is a real reach. Sorry

[Musterion]

Musterion, do you recall Christine's middle initial? Isn't it A?

Yes, her middle name is Ann. If you click on that link and go to the Marriage Records and type in Nicholas Francisco, you will get his and Christine's marriage app date and marriage date. The name Christine Ann Fox comes up with Nicholas. It comes up with Ronald Werth's as well.

????

IMO.
M.

[invreporter1105]

Yes, her middle name is Ann. If you click on that link and go to the Marriage Records and type in Nicholas Francisco, you will get his and Christine's marriage app date and marriage date. The name Christine Ann Fox comes up with Nicholas. It comes up with Ronald Werth's as well.

????

IMO.
M.

Cool. Do you know what the 'name type' means on the list of results?

(e and r)

[CaresForKids]

Do you have a link to the information that King County didn't have the resources? I don't remember that but do remember him saying that had no reason to believe he was there and that is why they wouldn't be looking in the lake.

That is exactly why I said "IIRC". Perchance I did not.

[MystryPhobia]

That is exactly why I said "IIRC". Perchance I did not.

I was only asking where the information came from since you must have remembered it from somehwere. I am not sure why you get so snarky everytime you answer me. All I am trying to do is keep the facts here. There seems to be a lot of emotionally driven posts regarding Christine and I believe it has clouded some peoples perspectives. IMO

[invreporter1105]

Musterion, I found the marriage record you were talking about. CF would have been 15 at the time she received the 1997 certificate.

Anyway, there are alot of Christine A. Fox's listed on the public records search from your link. Most of them are financially related. From the looks of it Christine sold the family home in August of 2008.

From the site:

Christine Francisco:

08/22/2008 NOTICE OF TRUSTEE SALE FRANCISCO CHRISTINE E NORTHWEST TRUSTEE SERVICES INC (+) R RANCHO VISTA DIV NO. 04 714800-0110

Nicholas Francisco:

000 - 000 08/22/2008 NOTICE OF TRUSTEE SALE FRANCISCO NICHOLAS E NORTHWEST TRUSTEE SERVICES INC (+) R RANCHO VISTA DIV NO. 04 714800-0110 Perm

I wasn't aware that she had sold the house. Or maybe this was an auction of personal items? Idk.

[CaresForKids]

I was only asking where the information came from since you must have remembered it from somehwere. I am not sure why you get so snarky everytime you answer me. All I am trying to do is keep the facts here. There seems to be a lot of emotionally driven posts regarding Christine and I believe it has clouded some peoples perspectives. IMO

It was in an email from KCSO to me and no I will not post it here. The Det's words were "We just do not have the resources to go dragging the lake when we have no evidence he may or may not be in there".

I am not sure why you get so snarky everytime you answer me.

Likewise.

[MystryPhobia]

It was in an email from KCSO to me and no I will not post it here. The Det's words were "We just do not have the resources to go dragging the lake when we have no evidence he may or may not be in there".



Likewise.

Well.. I know that he sent one to someone on Cheri's that stated that they wouldn't be searching the lake or the other lakes in the area of the vehicle and the reason fwas they had no reason to believe his body may be in them or that he was even dead at all. I think this was also the one that he said that his wife was now publically saying he was leading a double life and that lead them even further away from a foul play theory.

If they believed that Nicholas was in Panther Lake.. there would be resources to look for him. A possible dead body in a lake.. next to where children play baseball.. being left there because the county didn't have the resources to remove it would be completely irresponsible IMO.

[SeattleEddie]

Yes, her middle name is Ann. If you click on that link and go to the Marriage Records and type in Nicholas Francisco, you will get his and Christine's marriage app date and marriage date. The name Christine Ann Fox comes up with Nicholas. It comes up with Ronald Werth's as well.

????

IMO.
M.

This is a different couple quite a bit older than the subjects; they divorced in 2003.

[SilverDove]

We've probably visited this before. It seems familiar. But, every time I run across this in the King County Recorder's office website I wonder.

02/20/1997 MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE FOX CHRISTINE ANN WERTH RONALD JAY DOM 02/15/1997 Perm

http://146.129.54.93:8193/localization/menu.asp?

Maybe it's the date. 15 February. So close to when Nicholas went missing, 13 February.

And, there was a divorce which I'll find and post.

It can't possibly be Christine but it is so odd.

IMO.
M.

If anything what this really proves is just how strange the coincidences really can be. :thumbsup:

[SeattleEddie]

I am not sure what you are exactly trying to say by your post but you posted a link to someone's website that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. That is not this Christine and that is not her sister.. who's name is Janell.. not Jessica.

I think the sister spells her name Janel.

[Musterion]

Musterion, I found the marriage record you were talking about. CF would have been 15 at the time she received the 1997 certificate.

Anyway, there are alot of Christine A. Fox's listed on the public records search from your link. Most of them are financially related. From the looks of it Christine sold the family home in August of 2008.

From the site:

Christine Francisco:

08/22/2008 NOTICE OF TRUSTEE SALE FRANCISCO CHRISTINE E NORTHWEST TRUSTEE SERVICES INC (+) R RANCHO VISTA DIV NO. 04 714800-0110

Nicholas Francisco:

000 - 000 08/22/2008 NOTICE OF TRUSTEE SALE FRANCISCO NICHOLAS E NORTHWEST TRUSTEE SERVICES INC (+) R RANCHO VISTA DIV NO. 04 714800-0110 Perm

I wasn't aware that she had sold the house. Or maybe this was an auction of personal items? Idk.

I know! But, isn't it odd......The dates just hit me wrong.

IMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

I think this was also the one that he said that his wife was now publically saying he was leading a double life and that lead them even further away from a foul play theory.



I don't think we can assume that LE was led away from a "foul play theory" simply because of some claims made by the wife. We don't know what the police believe. We don't know what LE is/is not doing; what avenues they are/are not exploring; which people they may/may not be watching; what they do/do not know. We can't presume to know any of these things.

[MystryPhobia]

I think the sister spells her name Janel.

I have seen it spelled both ways. Funny you point this out but don't say anything about all the falsities that have been posted on here tonight... like her sister doesn't spell her name JESSICA???

[MystryPhobia]

I don't think we can assume that LE was led away from a "foul play theory" simply because of some claims made by the wife. We don't know what the police believe. We don't know what LE is/is not doing; what avenues they are/are not exploring; which people they may/may not be watching; what they do/do not know. We can't presume to know any of these things.
Well.. You could go to that site and read for yourself what the DETECTIVE said in his own words... I was merely relaying it again since so many people want to forget about it.

[invreporter1105]

Well.. You could go to that site and read for yourself what the DETECTIVE said in his own words... I was merely relaying it again since so many people want to forget about it.

Hi Mystry. I remember the email, and you are right. The det said that they wouldn't search the lake because they have no reason to believe NF would be in the lake. Wouldn't the wife's interest in the lake be good enough for a search? I would think so, jmo.

[CaresForKids]

Well.. I know that he sent one to someone on Cheri's that stated that they wouldn't be searching the lake or the other lakes in the area of the vehicle and the reason fwas they had no reason to believe his body may be in them or that he was even dead at all. I think this was also the one that he said that his wife was now publically saying he was leading a double life and that lead them even further away from a foul play theory.

If they believed that Nicholas was in Panther Lake.. there would be resources to look for him. A possible dead body in a lake.. next to where children play baseball.. being left there because the county didn't have the resources to remove it would be completely irresponsible IMO.

Yes, I know of that email. Several of us on different boards had correspondence with Dets on this case.

IMO it would not have cost the county that much to send a couple of divers into a small area of that lake. There is quite a bit of underbrush in it, I understand and therefore the currents would not have yet swept his body away if, in fact, he was in there.

That the KCSO quickly dismissed any idea that Nick may be in that lake, or any lake at all, due to the wife stating Nick was leading an alternate life, was irresponsible IMO as well.

[SilverDove]

Hi Mystry. I remember the email, and you are right. The det said that they wouldn't search the lake because they have no reason to believe NF would be in the lake. Wouldn't the wife's interest in the lake be good enough for a search? I would think so, jmo.

Not when it is difficult to get to the shore, no way to lunch a boat and more like a swamp.

[CaresForKids]

Not when it is difficult to get to the shore, no way to lunch a boat and more like a swamp.

S&R is equipped for that sort of scenario. Just another excuse.

[SilverDove]

S&R is equipped for that sort of scenario. Just another excuse.

You aren't understanding. There isn't a way to get the body into it. It is shallow and just a swampy area. Places like it are all over the Greater Seattle Green belts. They also mostly dry up in the summer. Birds can stand in them 30 feet out.

[MystryPhobia]

Yes, I know of that email. Several of us on different boards had correspondence with Dets on this case.

IMO it would not have cost the county that much to send a couple of divers into a small area of that lake. There is quite a bit of underbrush in it, I understand and therefore the currents would not have yet swept his body away if, in fact, he was in there.

That the KCSO quickly dismissed any idea that Nick may be in that lake, or any lake at all, due to the wife stating Nick was leading an alternate life, was irresponsible IMO as well.

The problem with divers going into that lake is just what you said.. underbrush and stuff.. that lake is less of a lake and more of a big swamp. It would be nearly impossible for someone to put a body in to it. Granted.. it IS kinda creepy there but for someone to dump a body into it.. they would need to get the body thru 10+ feet of thick underbrush and then into the swamp and out 30+ feet to a part that was deep enough to cover his body.

There is no currect.. IMO it would be nearly impossible for something to be swept away being in that lake.

[MystryPhobia]

S&R is equipped for that sort of scenario. Just another excuse.

Search and Rescue and KCSO are too different things.. and SD is right.. there is nowhere to put a boat so unless Nicholas was dropped by a helicopter.. I doubt he is in that lake. If he was put anywhere around that lake.. it wouldn't have been IN the lake itself but in the underbrush and stuff around the lake.. it is very heavily wooded.. with very thick bushes on both sides of the trail around the lake.

[CaresForKids]

It's a perfect place to toss a body because no one would imagine one being there. Even with all you say, it would not be hard to dump a body in a body of water as such. It has been done and as recently as Caylee Anthony.

[CaresForKids]

Search and Rescue and KCSO are too different things.. and SD is right.. there is nowhere to put a boat so unless Nicholas was dropped by a helicopter.. I doubt he is in that lake. If he was put anywhere around that lake.. it wouldn't have been IN the lake itself but in the underbrush and stuff around the lake.. it is very heavily wooded.. with very thick bushes on both sides of the trail around the lake.

S&R is part of the County as KCSO is. It's who LE uses. Although they are TWO different "things".

[SilverDove]

You aren't understanding. There isn't a way to get the body into it. It is shallow and just a swampy area. Places like it are all over the Greater Seattle Green belts. They also mostly dry up in the summer. Birds can stand in them 30 feet out.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Panther+Lake,+federal+way,+Wa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.863178,80.332031&ie=UTF8&ll=47.296768,-122.338729&spn=0.003856,0.009806&t=h&z=17

[MystryPhobia]

It's a perfect place to toss a body because no one would imagine one being there. Even with all you say, it would not be hard to dump a body in a body of water as such. It has been done and as recently as Caylee Anthony.
Caylee was a toddler.. Nicholas is a full grown man.

Did you look at the pictures of the lake?

[CaresForKids]

First you "wanted" him to be in there and had words about why he was not searched for. Now you're making every excuse for why he just could not possibly be in there. Which way do you want it?

[CaresForKids]

Caylee was a toddler.. Nicholas is a full grown man.

Did you look at the pictures of the lake?

Size really does not matter in this scenario. It's not that difficult to toss a body into a swamp. Yes, I saw the pics last year when they were put up.

In all actuality, at this point, I do not believe he is in there. What I do believe is that KCSO did not investigate this case to their fullest capability.

[MystryPhobia]

S&R is part of the County as KCSO is. It's who LE uses. Although they are TWO different "things".

King County SO has search and rescue for unincorporated areas of King County.. There is also The King County Search and Rescue and is a non profit with volunteers and such. It is privately funded and is not funded by the sheriff's office. If there was a reason to search there then these people would have the resources to do that and it wouldn't matter if the county could or not.

[CaresForKids]

Not necessarily if the NP group runs on donated funding.

[SilverDove]

Size really does not matter in this scenario. It's not that difficult to toss a body into a swamp. Yes, I saw the pics last year when they were put up.

In all actuality, at this point, I do not believe he is in there. What I do believe is that KCSO did not investigate this case to their fullest capability.

And in what city do they have the money to search everyone of the hundreds of "lakes" that are in the Greater Seattle area. And it is a dangerous and dirty job to search these swamps. Who do you want risking there lives to do it when there is no reason to believe he is even in any of them?

BTW who were you talking about "wanting" him to be in there? I know I never have since I have always believed from all the evidence that I have seen that he walked.

[MystryPhobia]

Size really does not matter in this scenario. It's not that difficult to toss a body into a swamp. Yes, I saw the pics last year when they were put up.

In all actuality, at this point, I do not believe he is in there. What I do believe is that KCSO did not investigate this case to their fullest capability.
How can size not matter? Someone tossing Caylee 10 feet off the road is different then someone dragging a full grown man at least a hundred yards.. up a steel hill.. then down and through thick underbrush to dump him in a lake that isn't deep enough along the edge to even hide his body.. are two completely different things. This is not even taking into account that the entire lake is covered with trees, branches, brush and stuff sticking out of it.

I highly doubt he is in that lake.. maybe another one close to there but not that one. I stood there.. and this was when I believed he was probably dead and just couldn't see how he could be in there.

[CaresForKids]

How can size not matter? Someone tossing Caylee 10 feet off the road is different then someone dragging a full grown man at least a hundred yards.. up a steel hill.. then down and through thick underbrush to dump him in a lake that isn't deep enough along the edge to even hide his body.. are two completely different things. This is not even taking into account that the entire lake is covered with trees, branches, brush and stuff sticking out of it.

I highly doubt he is in that lake.. maybe another one close to there but not that one. I stood there.. and this was when I believed he was probably dead and just couldn't see how he could be in there.

14 years in LE and I have seen everything anyone could ever possibly imagine. Maybe you just cannot fathom it because you cannot think like a criminal...which is a good thing...I don't particularly believe he is in any lake, at least not dead...maybe water skiing but not dead.

[CaresForKids]

And in what city do they have the money to search everyone of the hundreds of "lakes" that are in the Greater Seattle area. And it is a dangerous and dirty job to search these swamps. Who do you want risking there lives to do it when there is no reason to believe he is even in any of them?

BTW who were you talking about "wanting" him to be in there? I know I never have since I have always believed from all the evidence that I have seen that he walked.

You obviously do not read my posts thoroughly, do you?

[n/t]

Any updates on the body? TIA

[n/t]

How far/close is Bellevue?

Another body....

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19244647/detail.html

[RainyNiteNTx]

Do you have a link to the information that King County didn't have the resources? I don't remember that but do remember him saying that had no reason to believe he was there and that is why they wouldn't be looking in the lake.

I believe there was a link posted that King County did not have adequate resources and was having to cut back. I've been trying to find that link to post and when I have more time will continue to look for it. IIRC there was even discussion about it at the time.

[RainyNiteNTx]

And in what city do they have the money to search everyone of the hundreds of "lakes" that are in the Greater Seattle area. And it is a dangerous and dirty job to search these swamps. Who do you want risking there lives to do it when there is no reason to believe he is even in any of them?

BTW who were you talking about "wanting" him to be in there? I know I never have since I have always believed from all the evidence that I have seen that he walked.

I wouldn't advise searching hundreds of lakes, but it might be worth looking into the one that Christine mentioned. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Any updates on the body? TIA

Not that I can find, and no updates on Nicholas living in San Diego either.

[n/t]

I believe there was a link posted that King County did not have adequate resources and was having to cut back. I've been trying to find that link to post and when I have more time will continue to look for it. IIRC there was even discussion about it at the time.

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=8434

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/370136_sheriff10.html?source=rss

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=8434

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/370136_sheriff10.html?source=rss

Thanks n/t - I knew I had seen some articles regarding resources.

One other thing is that if resources were beginning to be tight, then a missing man who had some "secrets" might just justify LE writing it off as a man who left voluntarily. But since they do not know for sure, they still have the case "open" as a dutiful act. JMO

I mean they believed a woman jumped from a ferry in Seattle with no proof of a body, and life went on.:thumbdown:

[Cheri_G]

How far/close is Bellevue?

Another body....

http://www.kirotv.com/news/19244647/detail.html

It's in the general area.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=seattle,+wa&daddr=bellevue,+wa+to:seatac,+wa+to:federal+way,+w a&hl=en&geocode=&gl=us&mra=ls&sll=47.621438,-122.150803&sspn=0.200399,0.436707&g=bellevue,+wa&ie=UTF8&z=10

[huskiki]

The sister's name is Janell, not Jessica. C's name is Christine, not Christina. The Bella mentioned on the babyhoot blog is a character from the movie & book "Twilight". Sorry Bugout but this isn't C or her sister.

I'm with you Cares. The pic doesn't look like her either.

[huskiki]

Welcome back, huskiki! Boy, we could use your input and insights! Good to see you.

IMO.
M.


Thanks Musterion! I've been busy with work and some local missing person cases. It's time to be back to the boards :w00t:

[Cheri_G]

Cheri and n/t have you seen this?
Read each site pay attention to the names:

http://www.etsy.com/profile.php?user_id=5242145

which links to:

http://babyhoot.blogspot.com

Remember the sewing story? Oh so familiar.

Wow the grief is palpable. Then there are the links to the soap sites.
Sewing material and soap. Yes, familiar themes with Etsy but what a coinkydink. Then there is the photo with the sunglasses on. Sister who was living with them, at the time of his disappearance? Jessica.

Hi Bugout,

I looked at the link and saw the same thing everyone else did. While there's some similarities in names and interests its not CF and her sister.

[Cheri_G]

Thanks Rainy! I'll be sticking around :thumbsup:

I see about 1/4 of my posts are gone. What's up with that?

What's the latest on Nicholas?

Hi Huskiki,

CF did an interview on the one year anniversary the point of which seemed to be to tell everyone Nick was living a sordid secrect sex life. No new or useful information came from it.

Two male bodies have recently been found in the general area, no ID's on either yet.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thanks Musterion! I've been busy with work and some local missing person cases. It's time to be back to the boards :w00t:

Yes it is! In regards to your post count, I think if CW deletes a thread, the posts go with it - notice I said "I think" - not sure though.

[huskiki]

My 2 cents worth ...

First I think all State Police agencies should have sonar equipment. It would be too expensive for local LE to have this but could be borrowed when needed.

Second, I think that any body of water near a scene of a disappearance should be looked into (as well as freshly poured concrete).

I need to find the interview that Christine did on the one year anniversary.

[huskiki]

Can someone refresh my memory ...

What was the name of the other man that went missing around the same time as Nicholas? I know some of us contacted his wife at the time. Did he ever return home?

[huskiki]

Hi Huskiki,

CF did an interview on the one year anniversary the point of which seemed to be to tell everyone Nick was living a sordid secrect sex life. No new or useful information came from it.

Two male bodies have recently been found in the general area, no ID's on either yet.

Thanks Cheri,

I found the interview. I don't know what more to say right now. :confused:

[Cury-us Coyote]

I don't think we can assume that LE was led away from a "foul play theory" simply because of some claims made by the wife. We don't know what the police believe. We don't know what LE is/is not doing; what avenues they are/are not exploring; which people they may/may not be watching; what they do/do not know. We can't presume to know any of these things.

IRRC, LE officers and the spokesman were not under oath when they made public statements or wrote emails. IMO, their statements MAY reflect the strategy deemed best to reach resolution.
jmo

[MystryPhobia]

It's in the general area.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=seattle,+wa&daddr=bellevue,+wa+to:seatac,+wa+to:federal+way,+w a&hl=en&geocode=&gl=us&mra=ls&sll=47.621438,-122.150803&sspn=0.200399,0.436707&g=bellevue,+wa&ie=UTF8&z=10

Bellevue is right across the water to the east of Seattle.. so, yeah.. same general area.

The body found yesterday was a man in his 30's... It was found close to a high school and I guess kids were wandering past it for hours.. thinking the man was just sleeping.

Still haven't heard ANYTHING on the body found at Colman docks.

[Musterion]

The problem with divers going into that lake is just what you said.. underbrush and stuff.. that lake is less of a lake and more of a big swamp. It would be nearly impossible for someone to put a body in to it. Granted.. it IS kinda creepy there but for someone to dump a body into it.. they would need to get the body thru 10+ feet of thick underbrush and then into the swamp and out 30+ feet to a part that was deep enough to cover his body.

There is no currect.. IMO it would be nearly impossible for something to be swept away being in that lake.

Hi M.!

It might be difficult for a body to be slung into that lake but, as we've talked about before, Nicholas' keys and his laptop could very well be sunken down in the murky waters of that swamp. Finding those items would definitely, IMO, give clues and change the direction that Nicholas' case has seemed to be going.

I imagine they would find some interesting things in the bottom of that lake that don't pertain to Nicholas' case as well.

If my loved one were missing, I would find a way to get that lake searched for even one little piece of what may have happened to them.

IMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

Can someone refresh my memory ...

What was the name of the other man that went missing around the same time as Nicholas? I know some of us contacted his wife at the time. Did he ever return home?

Viliamu Fale. I don't know if he ever went home but he allegedly was never actually missing, per se and his wife stated it was a "personal family matter". He supposedly ran off to Alaska.

[CaresForKids]

Bellevue is right across the water to the east of Seattle.. so, yeah.. same general area.

The body found yesterday was a man in his 30's... It was found close to a high school and I guess kids were wandering past it for hours.. thinking the man was just sleeping.

Still haven't heard ANYTHING on the body found at Colman docks.

I left here abruptly last night when my son informed me there was a body under our stairs outside. The dispatcher at the PD asked me to go down and look at it but I refused. (How would I know if he was armed or not if he was still alive? I certainly did not want to find out on my own!) Turns out this particular body was in fact just sleeping and very deeply too. It took the cops about 5 minutes to wake him up after rolling up with lights and sirens! I wish I could sleep that soundly! :laugh:

[Cheri_G]

I left here abruptly last night when my son informed me there was a body under our stairs outside. The dispatcher at the PD asked me to go down and look at it but I refused. (How would I know if he was armed or not if he was still alive? I certainly did not want to find out on my own!) Turns out this particular body was in fact just sleeping and very deeply too. It took the cops about 5 minutes to wake him up after rolling up with lights and sirens! I wish I could sleep that soundly! :laugh:

That must have been exciting and scary! Glad it turned out to just be somebody sleeping.

[Musterion]

Hi elf999,

I wanted to reply to your post from the closed thread.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114&page=17&highlight=%22nicholas+francisco%22

Post 643

Elf 999 said: "I meant by projections that I think that in this missing persons case that people are sometimes projecting their own buried feelings and fears etc. onto Christine. I can't help but feel that Christine has hit some kind of universal psychological nerve in some people. The way Christine acted after Nicholas went missing, talking about herself, her own needs and fears, and saying everything was perfect and then finding out about the adultery and then getting a rather hasty divorce, to some it's like she abandoned him when he was missing. I think this may cause some people to see and read more into Christine's actions than is really there (projection). I don't mean this to be criticizing anyone, please don't take it that way."

I think projection is possible with many of us in these cases. In life, in general, as well. I don't believe it is necessarily harmful, I believe it can be insightful in many ways. It may cause us to look at scenarios and question them, rule them out and move on.

Christine did hit a universal nerve. You are right about that. But, IMO, the nerve that she hit was people feeling there was deception going on with her from the beginning of this case.

To me, it isn't 'like' Christine abandoned a missing Nicholas. She did abandon her missing husband. She didn't know if he was dead or left on his own. She doesn't know if he abandoned her first. Most of us can't imagine, if there was a chance that our spouse was alive somewhere, divorcing them. Even if they left on their own. Even if there were things that were shocking and hurtful that were found out.

There are people who have found out horrible things that their loved one has done and don't even think of divorcing them, missing or not. Nicholas may have had a double life. He may not have been faithful to his marriage vows. But he, also, might be dead. He might not have ever intended to leave Christine and his children, his mother or father of sisters, his friends, his career, all of his worldly goods. By all accounts, IMO, it was not something that he planned to do.

Why does Christine move so quickly. Why the lies? About things that don't even seem to matter.

All JM frustrated O.
M.

[Musterion]

I'm bringing a post of mine over from the closed thread. I still don't understand why it seems that Christine would lie about the date of conception of her child.

Who else thinks that this may be an extremely important point in the disappearance of Nicholas?

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114&highlight=%22nicholas+francisco%22&page=13

Post 513

"There may be a slight problem, then, on Christine saying she told Nicholas she was pregnant on his birthday.

Nicholas' birthday is 23 January.

According to Christine, she said that her baby had been born six weeks early. From what you are saying, the baby was born in August. Let's say 31 August. That would make the due date on 12 October, if the baby was born six weeks early. This is all according to what she's said.

Now, according to this:

http://www.justmommies.com/duedate.shtml

12 October due date would mean 20 January conception.

Maybe I got it wrong. But, unless there was a vision from God telling Christine that she was three days pregnant, there would be just no way she could have known she was pregnant and able to tell Nicholas, truthfully, that they were going to have their third child.

I'm open to correction, if I got any of the dates wrong. I hope I am wrong.

JMO.
M."

[huskiki]

Viliamu Fale. I don't know if he ever went home but he allegedly was never actually missing, per se and his wife stated it was a "personal family matter". He supposedly ran off to Alaska.

Yes that's him! Thanks Cares. I had sent a few emails to his wife, she replied for a while but then stopped. He ran off but with who? With this double life of Nicholas' you can't rule anything out.

[SilverDove]

I'm bringing a post of mine over from the closed thread. I still don't understand why it seems that Christine would lie about the date of conception of her child.

Who else thinks that this may be an extremely important point in the disappearance of Nicholas?

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114&highlight=%22nicholas+francisco%22&page=13

Post 513

"There may be a slight problem, then, on Christine saying she told Nicholas she was pregnant on his birthday.

Nicholas' birthday is 23 January.

According to Christine, she said that her baby had been born six weeks early. From what you are saying, the baby was born in August. Let's say 31 August. That would make the due date on 12 October, if the baby was born six weeks early. This is all according to what she's said.

Now, according to this:

http://www.justmommies.com/duedate.shtml

12 October due date would mean 20 January conception.

Maybe I got it wrong. But, unless there was a vision from God telling Christine that she was three days pregnant, there would be just no way she could have known she was pregnant and able to tell Nicholas, truthfully, that they were going to have their third child.

I'm open to correction, if I got any of the dates wrong. I hope I am wrong.

JMO.
M."

All of these dates are just guesses but even so this site says that it is possible to know if you are pregnant 9 days after conception. http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/how-soon-pregnancy-test.html

Also some woman have signs of being pregnant just days after conception. Since she had been pregnant before it is likely she would know the signs for her.

So give or take a couple of days it is possible for all of it to work out or at least very close.

I don't see this all as some giant sign that something was wrong. Easy to be a week or more here or there especially if she was regular.

It isn't like she got pregnant 3 months after he was gone and tried to say it was his.

[Musterion]

Hey everyone! Long time no chat.

Anything new on Nicholas?

In answer to your question about anything new on Nicholas.

You may have seen this or not.

This was my post in response to Seeking Truth, who claimed that Nicholas was alive and in San Diego.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114

Post 18

9 March 2009

"I am referencing these two Posts, 671 & 679 on the closed thread from:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...334688&page=17

SeekingTruth,

Could you clarify something?

You said that someone on another website knows that Nicholas is alive and has spoken to him. And that he is living in San Diego.

You then say that you have given this information to LE.

Are you saying that LE did not unearth this information? That it came from you to LE via you finding some people, at random, on a website that claim to know the missing Nicholas Francisco from Seattle?

I find this incredible detective work on your part if that is what you are saying.

Do you mind clarifying? Maybe I have misread.

M."

[CaresForKids]

In C's own words on the etsy site about when she found out she was pregnant and notice the date...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5432896

[SeattleEddie]

According to the earlier comments here, it appears highly unlikely the Bellevue body is NF: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?source_name=mbase&source_id=2009097487&offset=0

[SilverDove]

In C's own words on the etsy site about when she found out she was pregnant and notice the date...

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5432896

So she think she is pregnant tells Nicholas on his birthday or horrors she tells him as a late birthday present and does the test the next morning to be sure. The baby would still be due early October and would still have been born around 6 weeks early.

So it would appear that all of that fits within human biology with isn't exact.

Thanks for the post.

[CaresForKids]

So she think she is pregnant tells Nicholas on his birthday or horrors she tells him as a late birthday present and does the test the next morning to be sure. The baby would still be due early October and would still have been born around 6 weeks early.

So it would appear that all of that fits within human biology with isn't exact.

Thanks for the post.

Wow, you're keen. :rolleyes:

[SilverDove]

Wow, you're keen. :rolleyes:

Why thanks I think you are really special, too. :wub:

[SeattleEddie]

I'm bringing a post of mine over from the closed thread. I still don't understand why it seems that Christine would lie about the date of conception of her child.

Who else thinks that this may be an extremely important point in the disappearance of Nicholas?

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114&highlight=%22nicholas+francisco%22&page=13

Post 513

"There may be a slight problem, then, on Christine saying she told Nicholas she was pregnant on his birthday.

Nicholas' birthday is 23 January.

According to Christine, she said that her baby had been born six weeks early. From what you are saying, the baby was born in August. Let's say 31 August. That would make the due date on 12 October, if the baby was born six weeks early. This is all according to what she's said.

Now, according to this:

http://www.justmommies.com/duedate.shtml

12 October due date would mean 20 January conception.

Maybe I got it wrong. But, unless there was a vision from God telling Christine that she was three days pregnant, there would be just no way she could have known she was pregnant and able to tell Nicholas, truthfully, that they were going to have their third child.

I'm open to correction, if I got any of the dates wrong. I hope I am wrong.

JMO.
M."

Yes, this is very odd. There was also another post where NF's wife felt the baby move at what would have been an impossibly early time. I'll have to go look for it to see how it fits in this impossible timeline. So many stories! It reminds me of the claim that all the donated money went to paying the house payments, when in fact, it didn't. It's clear that all the stories don't add up. What's most interesting are the people who insist on finding reasons and excuses for the inconsistencies (to put it kindly).

[huskiki]

In answer to your question about anything new on Nicholas.

You may have seen this or not.

This was my post in response to Seeking Truth, who claimed that Nicholas was alive and in San Diego.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114

Post 18

9 March 2009

"I am referencing these two Posts, 671 & 679 on the closed thread from:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...334688&page=17

SeekingTruth,

Could you clarify something?

You said that someone on another website knows that Nicholas is alive and has spoken to him. And that he is living in San Diego.

You then say that you have given this information to LE.

Are you saying that LE did not unearth this information? That it came from you to LE via you finding some people, at random, on a website that claim to know the missing Nicholas Francisco from Seattle?

I find this incredible detective work on your part if that is what you are saying.

Do you mind clarifying? Maybe I have misread.

M."

Thanks Musterion! I hadn't seen this. It's not against the law to pick up and leave your life. IMO ...it's not morally right. So if Nicholas is alive and well living in San Diego perhaps he has been questioned. Does LE have to let the family know if a loved one has been found but that they don't want to be contacted? Most LE probably do contact the family just to say that the missing person is alive and that's all they can say.

Going with that scenario, LE contacts Christine and says Nicholas has been located but he does not want to be contacted ...do we think Christine would let the public know? Or do we think that she would continue on playing the victim? I'll probably get bashed for that so I'll duck! But seriously, she has manipulated the situation before. For all we know she could still be getting donations from people.

Now I feel that I have to put a disclaimer out there and say IF Nicholas is out there and alive he's so not doing the right thing. He should let people know he's safe so they can stop worrying.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thanks Musterion! I hadn't seen this. It's not against the law to pick up and leave your life. IMO ...it's not morally right. So if Nicholas is alive and well living in San Diego perhaps he has been questioned. Does LE have to let the family know if a loved one has been found but that they don't want to be contacted? Most LE probably do contact the family just to say that the missing person is alive and that's all they can say.

Going with that scenario, LE contacts Christine and says Nicholas has been located but he does not want to be contacted ...do we think Christine would let the public know? Or do we think that she would continue on playing the victim? I'll probably get bashed for that so I'll duck! But seriously, she has manipulated the situation before. For all we know she could still be getting donations from people.

Now I feel that I have to put a disclaimer out there and say IF Nicholas is out there and alive he's so not doing the right thing. He should let people know he's safe so they can stop worrying.

If that were the case, then I would assume his name would be taken off of the missing registries. Hopefully it would not be up to Christine to inform or not inform especially since they are now divorced.

[huskiki]

So she think she is pregnant tells Nicholas on his birthday or horrors she tells him as a late birthday present and does the test the next morning to be sure. The baby would still be due early October and would still have been born around 6 weeks early.

So it would appear that all of that fits within human biology with isn't exact.

Thanks for the post.

Here's where I'm confused. For whatever reason I thought the baby was due in August. In August I came back here and did google searches to see if Christine had given birth. Why did I think the baby was due in August? :confused:

Given the dates we know she stated on 1/24 that she found out she was pregnant. What we don't know is how far along she was at that point.

[huskiki]

If that were the case, then I would assume his name would be taken off of the missing registries. Hopefully it would not be up to Christine to inform or not inform especially since they are now divorced.

Hey Rainy! Yes you would think he would be removed and if it was up to Christine I think he would stay listed as a missing person. Well now I'm going to have to think some more. And I was liking my scenario. LOL

[Musterion]

Thanks Musterion! I hadn't seen this. It's not against the law to pick up and leave your life. IMO ...it's not morally right. So if Nicholas is alive and well living in San Diego perhaps he has been questioned. Does LE have to let the family know if a loved one has been found but that they don't want to be contacted? Most LE probably do contact the family just to say that the missing person is alive and that's all they can say.

Going with that scenario, LE contacts Christine and says Nicholas has been located but he does not want to be contacted ...do we think Christine would let the public know? Or do we think that she would continue on playing the victim? I'll probably get bashed for that so I'll duck! But seriously, she has manipulated the situation before. For all we know she could still be getting donations from people.

Now I feel that I have to put a disclaimer out there and say IF Nicholas is out there and alive he's so not doing the right thing. He should let people know he's safe so they can stop worrying.

Good Morning Huskiki!

You are right that it isn't illegal to go missing of your own free will. But, it is illegal to abandon children that are dependent on you.

I would hope that LE would remember that and report Nicholas to the courts as owing child support.

JMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

Good Morning Huskiki!

You are right that it isn't illegal to go missing of your own free will. But, it is illegal to abandon children that are dependent on you.

I would hope that LE would remember that and report Nicholas to the courts as owing child support.

JMO.
M.

Actually, it isn't even illegal to abandon your dependent children. It would only be illegal not to pay a court ordered child support and since there was none in place at the time Nick went missing/left, he still has done nothing illegal, that we know of. I agree with Huskiki, if he did leave on his own free will, he has done an immoral injustice to his children. However, I would still welcome him to my home to hear his side, without prejudice. I would also help him make things right with his children and get to see them and show them he is ok. He doesn't have to have contact with C as she is no longer his legal next of kin since she divorced him. There are 2 sides to every story and we so need to know what Nick's side is all about to come to an honest conclusion.

[CaresForKids]

OH SE is right I remember that. Just another one of those red flags regarding her personality and things that just are not "right" with this case for me.
I'm glad that this body wasn't him, I guess I just only want to hear, he is alive, and he was not harmed in any way. Since we don't know that, and he has not come forward to say to anyone, Hey sorry for the scare, I'm sorry for taking off like that But I AM OK everyone.

For some reason, he just seemed like the kind of guy, who would do that.
KWIM?

From everything we've ever heard of Nicholas, he did not sound like a hurtful person. or a vindictive person. Or a Hateful one.

Now looking into his case, others close to him did not come out smelling so rosey if you ask me. LE needs to dig deeper and put their thinking caps on. They need to go back to the yard at that house. And make sure. They need to check the crawl space. The basement. The attic, and the floor boards. They need to check it over, with a fine tooth comb.

The problem is, it was somebody's and now that somebody is dead. He might have been someone's son, brother, husband, friend and who knows what else. He was living and breathing one moment and the next, he ceased to exist. That we had no connection to this person, makes it easier for us to say "Whew! So glad that wasn't so and so" and it's alright to feel relief like that but we also musn't ever forget that even though he wasn't "our man", he was someone else's. :sad:

[SilverDove]

If that were the case, then I would assume his name would be taken off of the missing registries. Hopefully it would not be up to Christine to inform or not inform especially since they are now divorced.

If he was found alive it might take them a while to get him off the public list wouldn't be hight on the list of things to do. Also it would be up to the family to let the public know. Since his birth family hasn't been to be interested in letting the public know anything I really don't see them saying anything. So I would guess it would be either the family or Christine or no one.

Personally I have the feeling because of the lack of doing anything since the first information that his birth family do know what happened and where he is now. They could easily be protecting him from having to pay support to Christine and the kids.

[SilverDove]

Here's where I'm confused. For whatever reason I thought the baby was due in August. In August I came back here and did google searches to see if Christine had given birth. Why did I think the baby was due in August? :confused:

Given the dates we know she stated on 1/24 that she found out she was pregnant. What we don't know is how far along she was at that point.

The news reports said early Oct and tests for pregnancy can work as early as nine days after conception. Some woman have signs that early, too. So if they were trying she might have taken one at the first possible chance of having it positive.

[CaresForKids]

One newscaster did blunder and say "early August". I do remember that there was a discussion here regarding it. I highly doubt those pages still exist as that was early on in this case and those threads were locked and/or destroyed.

[huskiki]

The news reports said early Oct and tests for pregnancy can work as early as nine days after conception. Some woman have signs that early, too. So if they were trying she might have taken one at the first possible chance of having it positive.

I knew early on both of my pregnancies so I can understand her knowing quickly. There's just no way to know her actual date of conception or actual due date. We only have her word which is ...well, you know.

[huskiki]

One newscaster did blunder and say "early August". I do remember that there was a discussion here regarding it. I highly doubt those pages still exist as that was early on in this case and those threads were locked and/or destroyed.

So I'm not totally crazy :unsure:

It's too bad some of the old threads were deleted. There was a lot of good conversation out there.

[huskiki]

If he was found alive it might take them a while to get him off the public list wouldn't be hight on the list of things to do. Also it would be up to the family to let the public know. Since his birth family hasn't been to be interested in letting the public know anything I really don't see them saying anything. So I would guess it would be either the family or Christine or no one.

Personally I have the feeling because of the lack of doing anything since the first information that his birth family do know what happened and where he is now. They could easily be protecting him from having to pay support to Christine and the kids.

I have to agree with you on his family if he is infact alive. I can't imagine his blood relatives not searching high and low for him if he was truly missing. Ok ...I have seen it happen before but usually when the family is quiet they are guilty! IMO JMO MOO

[SilverDove]

I knew early on both of my pregnancies so I can understand her knowing quickly. There's just no way to know her actual date of conception or actual due date. We only have her word which is ...well, you know.

If we discard everything that Christine said then we don't know if he took more money or had more money on him. She could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't take extra clothing because she would have been the only one who knew and she could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't just tell her he was done and was leaving.

For all we know he grabbed a couple of changes of clothing, told her he was out of there. She called the police and got the car picked up and now he has just taken off out of state.

[SilverDove]

I have to agree with you on his family if he is infact alive. I can't imagine his blood relatives not searching high and low for him if he was truly missing. Ok ...I have seen it happen before but usually when the family is quiet they are guilty! IMO JMO MOO

If this is true then it seems it could only mean that his family killed him or they know he is alive and keeping it secret.

Christine on the other hand seemed to be willing to put her information out (before everyone started attacking her), do an interview on the year anniversary and if what some have said here even posting secretly here to put her side out.

[invreporter1105]

If this is true then it seems it could only mean that his family killed him or they know he is alive and keeping it secret.

Christine on the other hand seemed to be willing to put her information out (before everyone started attacking her), do an interview on the year anniversary and if what some have said here even posting secretly here to put her side out.

Actually, it isn't hard to believe that Christine would be posting on this very board, is it?

[RainyNiteNTx]

If this is true then it seems it could only mean that his family killed him or they know he is alive and keeping it secret.

Christine on the other hand seemed to be willing to put her information out (before everyone started attacking her), do an interview on the year anniversary and if what some have said here even posting secretly here to put her side out.

Ahhh yes - Every other missing person's case can be discussed except hers without it being viewed as an attack. No one asked her to play verbal volleyball with the posters on this board - that was her choice.

As Dr. Phil says "as flat as a pancake is, there is always another side". Thankfully some people on here have tried to keep that in mind when discussing a young healthy man who disappeared into the night without a trace.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Actually, it isn't hard to believe that Christine would be posting on this very board, is it?

Uh no it isn't hard to believe at all that she was here "seeking truth".

[RainyNiteNTx]

If we discard everything that Christine said then we don't know if he took more money or had more money on him. She could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't take extra clothing because she would have been the only one who knew and she could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't just tell her he was done and was leaving.

For all we know he grabbed a couple of changes of clothing, told her he was out of there. She called the police and got the car picked up and now he has just taken off out of state.

If he told her he was leaving and she involved the police knowing full well he left her voluntarily, she should have to pay for all expenses incurred in them searching for Nicholas. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

I have to agree with you on his family if he is infact alive. I can't imagine his blood relatives not searching high and low for him if he was truly missing. Ok ...I have seen it happen before but usually when the family is quiet they are guilty! IMO JMO MOO

We have no idea if his family is searching or not. Just because Christine does not know about it or we don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. JMO

[huskiki]

If we discard everything that Christine said then we don't know if he took more money or had more money on him. She could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't take extra clothing because she would have been the only one who knew and she could have lied about that. We don't know that he didn't just tell her he was done and was leaving.

For all we know he grabbed a couple of changes of clothing, told her he was out of there. She called the police and got the car picked up and now he has just taken off out of state.

Exaclty! Once one tells a lie then it's hard to believe anything that they say. The only thing we know for sure is that Nicholas is still missing :sad:

[Shelby1]

Actually, it isn't hard to believe that Christine would be posting on this very board, is it?

Nope. Not at all.

[Shelby1]

Exaclty! Once one tells a lie then it's hard to believe anything that they say. The only thing we know for sure is that Nicholas is still missing :sad:


:sad:

Did anyone hear anything about the body found???

[huskiki]

If this is true then it seems it could only mean that his family killed him or they know he is alive and keeping it secret.

Christine on the other hand seemed to be willing to put her information out (before everyone started attacking her), do an interview on the year anniversary and if what some have said here even posting secretly here to put her side out.

No. But you have to admit a lot of time when the family is quiet it means they know something. Casey Anthony wasn't too focused on finding her daughter. Jayson Ackernecht isn't doing too much to find his wife, no he's busy looking for a new woman. Drew Peterson ...I don't think I need to go on.

I don't think Christine killed Nicholas but I do believe she was the driving force that led him to leave. Not saying he's alive either, he could have met with foul play. There are too many unknowns with this case.

And yes, I do believe she's been posting to discussion boards as well.

*Edit to add that Christine herself never did much to actively search for her husband other than cry on TV, even George and Cindy Anthony as nutty as they are were looking for Caylee.

[huskiki]

Ahhh yes - Every other missing person's case can be discussed except hers without it being viewed as an attack. No one asked her to play verbal volleyball with the posters on this board - that was her choice.

As Dr. Phil says "as flat as a pancake is, there is always another side". Thankfully some people on here have tried to keep that in mind when discussing a young healthy man who disappeared into the night without a trace.

Well said Rainy :thumbsup:

[huskiki]

We have no idea if his family is searching or not. Just because Christine does not know about it or we don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. JMO

True but it's more effective to inform the public of what's going on. If you don't then you risk them forgetting about the person who's missing. If they are looking for him then they probably know he's alive but just don't know where he is. IMO

[Musterion]

All of these dates are just guesses but even so this site says that it is possible to know if you are pregnant 9 days after conception. http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/how-soon-pregnancy-test.html

Also some woman have signs of being pregnant just days after conception. Since she had been pregnant before it is likely she would know the signs for her.

So give or take a couple of days it is possible for all of it to work out or at least very close.

I don't see this all as some giant sign that something was wrong. Easy to be a week or more here or there especially if she was regular.

It isn't like she got pregnant 3 months after he was gone and tried to say it was his.

Maybe the inconsistencies I see are nothing at all. Mean nothing. Maybe they mean everything. Let's look at it though.

Christine is saying that her child was born six weeks early. Her baby was born 31 August 2008.

Each of the statements (from Christine's own words herself or what she has told others) below figure the baby to be born around 12 October 2008.

That means, for her to be due around 12 October, the conception would have taken place around 20 January.

"Your due date is October 12, 2008.

Your baby was conceived around January 20, 2008.

Your first trimester begins January 06, 2008.
Your second trimester begins March 31, 2008.
Your third trimester begins July 14, 2008."

Read more: "Due Date Calculator" - http://www.justmommies.com

Throughout these quotes below Christine is basically saying that she was pregnant around 29 or 30 December 2007.

"Your due date is September 22, 2008.

Your baby was conceived around December 31, 2007.

Your first trimester begins December 17, 2007.
Your second trimester begins March 11, 2008.
Your third trimester begins June 24, 2008."

Read more: "Due Date Calculator" - http://www.justmommies.com

"--- "Christine has two children, ages 4 and 2 and has one on the way. She is 7 weeks pregnant today."

Posted by Mineral Magic Cosmetics on February 18, 2008 at 8:46am

http://www.indiepublic.com/profiles/blogs/946391:BlogPost:298285

(31 December 2007 Conception Date. 22 September 2008 Due Date.)

---20 May "it's a boy"

Christine Francisco on May 20, 2008 at 11:27 am
It’s a Boy!
http://supportingchristine.wordpress.co ...

----I am 7 weeks pregnant today with our 3rd child. (30 December 2007 Conception Date)

Christine
rinnovi body spa
bella style boutique
Posted at 9:50 pm, February 17 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=30

---I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered......
Posted at 12:15 pm, February 18 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=76

--http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 23&page=53

rinnovibodyspa says:
I hate waiting. it just kills me. i wish i could be out there searching. i wasn't pregnant i would be. i had a miscarriage in june and i don't want to do anything to compromise this pregnancy. I told nicholas i was pregnant on his birthday in january.
Posted at 6:54 pm, February 23 2008 EST

--http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 23&page=81

yes i am as of today 8 weeks pregnant. you all should understand that this amount of stress and trauma can contribute if not cause a miscarriage in the first trimester. So i need to keep my stress as low as possible at this point (which under the circumstances is nearly impossible).Posted at 10:20 pm, February 23 2008 EST (conception 29 December 2007)

--I will never stop searching for him. i am now 10.5 weeks pregnant with our third, i was 6.5 weeks when he went missing. we all miss him.March 13th, 2008 at 01:36 AM (conception around 30 December 2007)

I start my second trimester Sunday and it will be a relief to be out of the first trimester. (6 April was Sunday) (29 December conception date has second semester starting 9 April 2008)

on April 2, 2008 at 9:25 pm Christine Francisco
http://supportingchristine.wordpress.co ... ur-family/"

Taken from Cheri's board:

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1441

What I find curious is why the discrepancy. There would be no need for it. If her baby was born three weeks early instead of six, what would that matter? Unless????

JMO.
M

[Musterion]

Actually, it isn't even illegal to abandon your dependent children. It would only be illegal not to pay a court ordered child support and since there was none in place at the time Nick went missing/left, he still has done nothing illegal, that we know of. I agree with Huskiki, if he did leave on his own free will, he has done an immoral injustice to his children. However, I would still welcome him to my home to hear his side, without prejudice. I would also help him make things right with his children and get to see them and show them he is ok. He doesn't have to have contact with C as she is no longer his legal next of kin since she divorced him. There are 2 sides to every story and we so need to know what Nick's side is all about to come to an honest conclusion.

Hi CFK,

I need to find the law in the wa gov. website that states it is illegal to abandon your child if you are the financial provider. We had discussed it at one point but I have forgotten where the link is.

There are two sides to every story. I'd really like to hear Nicholas'. I think we all may be surprised at what he might say.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Ahhh yes - Every other missing person's case can be discussed except hers without it being viewed as an attack. No one asked her to play verbal volleyball with the posters on this board - that was her choice.

As Dr. Phil says "as flat as a pancake is, there is always another side". Thankfully some people on here have tried to keep that in mind when discussing a young healthy man who disappeared into the night without a trace.

Hi Rainy!

There is a reason and we're going to find it: why Christine cares what posters on a crime board think about her and trying to get the focus off of discussion about her and her impending, sudden marriage and on to Nicholas' family and why they appear quiet.

There is something behind all of that.

JMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

No. But you have to admit a lot of time when the family is quiet it means they know something. Casey Anthony wasn't too focused on finding her daughter. Jayson Ackernecht isn't doing too much to find his wife, no he's busy looking for a new woman. Drew Peterson ...I don't think I need to go on.

I don't think Christine killed Nicholas but I do believe she was the driving force that led him to leave. Not saying he's alive either, he could have met with foul play. There are too many unknowns with this case.

And yes, I do believe she's been posting to discussion boards as well.

*Edit to add that Christine herself never did much to actively search for her husband other than cry on TV, even George and Cindy Anthony as nutty as they are were looking for Caylee.


You do not believe that she killed Nicholas but she was the driving force behind him leaving? You are going to have to elaborate on this for me because it seems to me that you are saying if he left or if he met with foul play.. she is the one responsible for it? Could you explain this further?

Not picking on your huskiki.. I have seen this said before.. as in reference to him leaving and it being her fault.

To me.. if he was engaging in behavior that could have put him in harms way.. then he does hold some responsibility.. even if you can prove that it was because he was somehow so unhappy at home that he had to do it. Just seems to me that people are giving him a pass on things that we wouldn't give our own loved ones a pass on if they were to do this to us.

I know some will say.. well, he is the victim until proven to them otherwise and that is fine.. but reality is reality and just because someone may be a victim does not mean that they were without fault.. we are all humans and so is/was Nicholas. What if it was your best friend and her husband we were talking about? Would the same be true then and if not why?

I really totally fascinated and puzzled by this whole thinking.

[CaresForKids]

I'll put $10 on that baby isn't Nick's.

[SilverDove]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

[SilverDove]

I'll put $10 on that baby isn't Nick's.

Why the baby would have still been conceived long before Nicholas went missing. Do you think they had quit having sex months before he left and just told everyone about the baby even though he knew it wasn't his only to leave a couple of weeks later?

[MystryPhobia]

I'll put $10 on that baby isn't Nick's.
The child is Nicholas'... I don't know what is up with the whole dates it makes no sense to me but that baby is Nicholas' and IMO he is an INNOCENT human being in this and should not be drug into the feelings that some have about his mother.

[huskiki]

You do not believe that she killed Nicholas but she was the driving force behind him leaving? You are going to have to elaborate on this for me because it seems to me that you are saying if he left or if he met with foul play.. she is the one responsible for it? Could you explain this further?

Not picking on your huskiki.. I have seen this said before.. as in reference to him leaving and it being her fault.

To me.. if he was engaging in behavior that could have put him in harms way.. then he does hold some responsibility.. even if you can prove that it was because he was somehow so unhappy at home that he had to do it. Just seems to me that people are giving him a pass on things that we wouldn't give our own loved ones a pass on if they were to do this to us.

I know some will say.. well, he is the victim until proven to them otherwise and that is fine.. but reality is reality and just because someone may be a victim does not mean that they were without fault.. we are all humans and so is/was Nicholas. What if it was your best friend and her husband we were talking about? Would the same be true then and if not why?

I really totally fascinated and puzzled by this whole thinking.


I know you're not picking on me. All I meant by that statement is that I can easily see how she could have gotten on the guys last nerve and he left. Not saying that if he met with foul play then she is responsible. If his secret life was a bad as some make it out to be then he would be very much at fault if he met with foul play. Or he could have just met with foul play by accident. I do think he left Christine, what happened after that I don't know.

If he did leave I think he did a crappy thing to his family no matter what the circumstances. He should be a man and face the music so to speak. People divorce all the time, there's no need to put people through this torment if he simply didn't want to be married any more. Then there's the resources that were wasted on searching for him, the money and time spent looking for him. It's all wrong if he just left, very selfish.

If it was my best friend ...ha ha ...I'd feel the same way. We are all human and have faults. If I felt she knew that her husband up and left her and then saw her out there pleading for help and asking for donations I would kick her in the butt and tell her to snap out of it.

The two main reasons people are still talking about this case are 1. Nicholas is still considered missing and people are concerned, that's why we're all here right (most of us anyway) and 2. people feel that Christine used this whole situation to her advantage.

[huskiki]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

Can I start? LOL

Seriously though, how many people are missing from King County? I only know of Nicholas but I've been absent from the boards for a while. If King County has multiple missing people then there should be bigger concerns and LE should start looking to see if the cases could be linked together in any way. If they don't have multiple missing people then who else are we to think of when we hear a body is found? There are so many missing people in this country and only a handful get National attention. That is something that needs to be changed.

As for Christine, I don't care if she posts here or not. All discussion welcome, right?

I'm in NY so I can't get out and actively search for Nicholas but if I lived close by I would. I have also been active in the search for Jaliek Rainwalker, so yes I do care about those who are missing. If memory serves me correct, some here have participated so I guess that means they care too. And the biggest losers in all of this are the children.

[huskiki]

Why the baby would have still been conceived long before Nicholas went missing. Do you think they had quit having sex months before he left and just told everyone about the baby even though he knew it wasn't his only to leave a couple of weeks later?

Just playing devils advocate here but maybe he did the math. Could he have been out of town around the date she conceived? Maybe he didn't think it was his.

[huskiki]

The child is Nicholas'... I don't know what is up with the whole dates it makes no sense to me but that baby is Nicholas' and IMO he is an INNOCENT human being in this and should not be drug into the feelings that some have about his mother.

Sadly, Nicholas' disappearance has brought this innocent child into the mix. Christine tells Nicholas she's pregnant and he's missing weeks later. You can't rule out the added responsibility of another mouth to feed as a reason to leave. Maybe he felt he was under pressure and couldn't take it any more. Still no reason to up and leave without telling someone but we don't know what goes on in a persons head.

There's no ill feelings towards any of their children.

[n/t]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

How do you expect someone who is thousands of miles away to look for Nicholas? All I can do is hope and pray that he's safe. May I ask what you've done to look for him? I'm assuming you're still in the area.

Eventhough I haven't posted much on this thread, I check every single day to see if there are updates. And YES if there is a male body found in Seattle, the first person I think about is Nicholas because he's the only one that I know of. If it was a female, I would think of Nancy Moyer or Alyssa eventhough I'm not even sure how close they are to Seatac.

I take offense to your accusation that we don't care about the pain the other families are going through for their lost loved one.

If and when the news is posted and the body is identified, I know many of us will pay our respects. We always did and always will.

[Musterion]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

I don't want to pull something out to nitpick as you are suggesting, SD. But, I have to say that your post is exactly the tactic that I see as taking the focus off of the details in this case.

The details are important, IMO.

The big picture is important. The little things make up that big picture.

The context is important.

Almost every time we start to discuss an inconsistency concerning Christine in this case, she or someone comes in and makes statements like the one you have just made. It takes the focus off of, IMO, investigating things that may be important.

Most of the people here cannot physically search. They don't live here. I live close enough but cannot physically search. But, what most of the posters here are doing, and I believe that is why you are here, is because we DO care. We care enough to keep this forum going. We care enough to take our personal time out to investigate on the internet. To discuss possibilities. Take time to pray for Nicholas, his family and even and especially Christine. The people here are good hearted people regardless of how they may come across or state their views. So, to say does anyone care? I have to stand up and say yes! Very much so!

This is no game and I don't believe there is one person here who is playing a game. Let me take that back. One person has come on here to play a game and that person has been Christine.

So, I'm taking this back to the details, sticking to the point of a missing man's wife's suspicious actions and inconsistencies. That is where it should stay until those details are cleared up. IMO.

Why does Christine care to come and post on here? Why does she care what we think? Why is she trying to deflect discussion from herself onto Nicholas' family? Why did she come on here, at the precise time, when she was engaged and getting quickly remarried to do the deflecting?

These are questions that need answered, IMO.

You are a thoughtful person who has a good mind for discussion. I enjoy your insights and hope we all can keep the dialogue going.

M.

[invreporter1105]

I don't want to pull something out to nitpick as you are suggesting, SD. But, I have to say that your post is exactly the tactic that I see as taking the focus off of the details in this case.

The details are important, IMO.

The big picture is important. The little things make up that big picture.

The context is important.

Almost every time we start to discuss an inconsistency concerning Christine in this case, she or someone comes in and makes statements like the one you have just made. It takes the focus off of, IMO, investigating things that may be important.

Most of the people here cannot physically search. They don't live here. I live close enough but cannot physically search. But, what most of the posters here are doing, and I believe that is why you are here, is because we DO care. We care enough to keep this forum going. We care enough to take our personal time out to investigate on the internet. To discuss possibilities. Take time to pray for Nicholas, his family and even and especially Christine. The people here are good hearted people regardless of how they may come across or state their views. So, to say does anyone care? I have to stand up and say yes! Very much so!

This is no game and I don't believe there is one person here who is playing a game. Let me take that back. One person has come on here to play a game and that person has been Christine.

So, I'm taking this back to the details, sticking to the point of a missing man's wife's suspicious actions and inconsistencies. That is where it should stay until those details are cleared up. IMO.

Why does Christine care to come and post on here? Why does she care what we think? Why is she trying to deflect discussion from herself onto Nicholas' family? Why did she come on here, at the precise time, when she was engaged and getting quickly remarried to do the deflecting?

These are questions that need answered, IMO.

You are a thoughtful person who has a good mind for discussion. I enjoy your insights and hope we all can keep the dialogue going.

M.

Thanks Musterion for this post. I totally agree with you 100%. Everytime we begin discussing things that may be important in finding Nicholas, someone comes on here to deflect our focus to other things. We all care about Nicholas or we wouldn't have followed this case so closely over the past year. I think most of us want to believe that he is alive, well, and sorting things out in his own life so that he can be responsible for what he has left behind- his children. On the other hand, if Nicholas has been murdered, committed suicide, or been involved in some accident, we want his family to have some sort of closure in knowing his fate.

[Musterion]

The child is Nicholas'... I don't know what is up with the whole dates it makes no sense to me but that baby is Nicholas' and IMO he is an INNOCENT human being in this and should not be drug into the feelings that some have about his mother.

You're right M. He is innocent. So are his sister and his brother, Nicholas' other two children.

From my viewpoint, Christine has been the one to bring this little one into discussion.

Christine is the one who has inconsistencies in what she has said regarding her pregnancy.

If Christine had NOT done that, then we would not be discussing him. The responsibility falls on her shoulders and hers alone. IMO.

For us to be on a Crime Board and see the glaring inconsistencies that are evident, in many things that Christine has said or done, to not discuss them would make no sense. Would it?

Is the baby Nicholas'? You, or I, could not know that. We weren't there at the end of December or the middle of January when she conceived.

M., in any other case if a woman had a missing husband and was pregnant, and that woman went on to quickly move, divorce and remarry, we would be discussing everything. Including the parentage of the child.

Just because it's Christine doesn't mean she gets a pass any more than Nicholas gets a pass for his actions before missing or how he went missing either, my friend.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Thanks Musterion for this post. I totally agree with you 100%. Everytime we begin discussing things that may be important in finding Nicholas, someone comes on here to deflect our focus to other things. We all care about Nicholas or we wouldn't have followed this case so closely over the past year. I think most of us want to believe that he is alive, well, and sorting things out in his own life so that he can be responsible for what he has left behind- his children. On the other hand, if Nicholas has been murdered, committed suicide, or been involved in some accident, we want his family to have some sort of closure in knowing his fate.

I could not have said this any better. You've spoken exactly how I feel and how I know many others feel too.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Why the baby would have still been conceived long before Nicholas went missing. Do you think they had quit having sex months before he left and just told everyone about the baby even though he knew it wasn't his only to leave a couple of weeks later?

Silver Dove,

Yes, the baby would have been conceived before Nicholas went missing.

As for their sex life. I don't know. Maybe they did stop. Maybe Nicholas had a vasectomy that Christine didn't know about.

The point is, is that we don't know. But, the different due dates given seem suspect.

Are you still saying that those discrepancies are innocent? Or mean nothing?

JMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

Let's get practical then.... Where do you propose we look for him?

[Musterion]

I just don't know Huskiki! I'm looking at other things, the stacks of material, the way they are stacked, the writing and the style of the photos. Too similar for me. Especially to the first posts which of course are what... aprons of course.

Interesting links though, and I don't easily discount things that catch my eye. Too many body keeps turning up in this area it's so sad. Each one that turns up I guess I hold my breath until someone posts it's not him.

If someone lives close keep us all abreast of the outcome to the bodies found can you? TIA!
:rose:

Hey bugout,

No matter if it looks like Christine or not, I think it is great that you are still being so diligent in looking into this case.

So many missing people are forgotten. You help keep the search and questions about Nicholas in the forefront.

Good job and if I go missing, please head up the search, okay?

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

True but it's more effective to inform the public of what's going on. If you don't then you risk them forgetting about the person who's missing. If they are looking for him then they probably know he's alive but just don't know where he is. IMO

Christine is the one who said just because people don't know what is going on doesn't mean she isn't looking, so I thought if that was fair for her, its fair to say about his family also.

[Musterion]

Christine is the one who said just because people don't know what is going on doesn't mean she isn't looking, so I thought if that was fair for her, its fair to say about his family also.

That's right as rain, Rainy. :wink: She did say that.

Also, came on here to accuse that family of doing nothing because there was no sign, publicly, that they were looking.

JMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

Let's get practical then.... Where do you propose we look for him?

Great point. People keep talking about "looking for him" but really, after one year, he could be anywhere, if he's still alive. I live in Seattle, but I would have no idea how to go about "looking for him." Failure to conduct a physical search doesn't correlate with a lack of caring or concern.

NF is a missing person. Many things have been said about him in his absence. He does not have a voice in this conversation. He may be dead. He may have been brutally murdered. I am still here, fourteen months later, because I care about fairness. NF deserves the dignity and respect that's the birthright of every human being. I honor all you folks who continue to care about NF; it's a testament to your generous spirits and kind hearts. I could only hope that so many strangers would advocate for me were I ever to go missing. That's what I call "looking for him."

[inv]

I find this case entirely confusing. A man goes missing the day before Valentine's Day. Symbolic? And if so, how? Did the man have a secret lover? Or maybe it was the wife hiding a secret love affair. Maybe the affair started after the husband went missing.

Or was this a crime involving fraud? Was it pre-planned by both husband and wife? Probably not since the missing husband has not been seen, nor heard from in 14 months.

The only person from the whole family whom has spoken out is the wife. First she appears on news media pleading for help finding her missing husband. No, she pleads for the public to find her missing husband, or else her kids won't have a dad.

Then donations of money and housing begin to roll in after postings appear online that the wife is in dire financial need. Once ppl start to question her comments and motives, she becomes angry which is reflected in her internet postings.

Then she stops pleading for help from the public, she avoids publicity altogather, even national exposure through a very popular broadcast news program.

Suddenly, the rumors begin to fly when, according to LE, the wife publicly says her missing husband was leading a 'double life'. Well, what did that mean exactly? Internet users were posing these questions using online message boards. After a few days, newly registered users post that the husband is alive and involved in some controversial sex life. When asked for links to where these posters got this information, there were no links to be given.

So my question is: Are these unknown posters attempting to deflect attention from someone?

Here's what is known:

1. A man is missing.

2. He hasn't been heard from, seen, or tracked down in over a year.

3. Co-workers of the missing man say nothing was obviously unusual the day he went missing.

4. The man's car was found a few days later in a condo parking lot in a town he rarely, if ever, had been to as far as anyone knows.

5. The missing man's wife began pleading for people to find her husband. A desperate attempt to seem like the perfect little wife with the perfect little husband? No problems at all?

6. The wife gets donations of money, housing, and whatever else.

7. The public begins asking tough quesitons like, "How does the seemingly devastated wife have time to post messages all over the internet, post new photos of herself on Myspace, take down all of her husband's phots from online, etc, etc, etc?"

8. The wife becomes uncomfortable with these questions, which can be noted from reading some of her posts which indicate her annoyance.

9. The wife refuses further interviews and avoids responding to posts online.

10. The missing man's wife begins publicly saying that her husband was leading a double life.

11. The wife divorces her husband, taking full custody of the kids, all while the man is still missing.

12. The wife deletes her Myspace account and other accounts and stops selling via her online shops, which she claims were her only source of income.

So what's up with this? Are all of these facts not enough for reasonable cause to haul this wife into the station for a long interrogation? Why has the husband not been found? Why hasn't he spoken out about how his ex-wife is defaming him, and keeping his kids from him, and divorcing him, and moving on to a, dare I say a 'new life'?

This is all my opinion. Somebody, somewhere...probably someone reading this very message..knows where Nicholas Francisco is. They know whether he is dead or alive. So it's time to speak up and speak loud because a year has now gone by. It's time to bring some closure for his family and his children. Where is Nicholas Francisco????

[RainyNiteNTx]

The biggest problem in what is happening on the boards is no one cares to look at the big picture. It just seems like little things are nitpicked apart again and again. Thank goodness the police know that the big picture is what is important and no wonder they are so careful with what information they are giving out. I'm sure they have read here and know what would happen.

Even in a long post someone will jump of the a little thing like is Christine posting here and leave all the other really stuff alone. So everyone is ignoring the original post to answer each other.

The truth is NO ONE is looking for Nicholas because they are all to busy nitpicking and playing games with each other. The focus has became so crazy that every time a body is found in Seattle someone thinks that the only person out of the 1.8 million in King County it can only be Nicholas and once it is found to not be him few seem to care about the pain that that new body will cause some family.

I'm 100% positive that someone will pick one line out of this post and start a whole new nitpick out of it. Anyone want to bet someone won't?

Does anyone really care about Nicholas, Christine or the kids or is it all just a game?

Oh I disagree SilverDove - I believe people are looking at the big picture and therein lies the rub....we are only supposed to look at a lying, cheating, betraying sneaky snake Nicholas yet we are not to dare glance in the direction of Christine...the one who pointed everyone to Nicholas' secret life.

Thankfully this is not the Etsy forum where people are expected to stay up all night posting only words of support, love and encouragement for her...where people cannot ask a question without getting their hands slapped or being told to shut up by CF herself.

As far as people looking for Nicholas, please speak for yourself. You have no idea what people are doing. There is a poster on here (MystryPhobia) who took her time, her money and her week-ends to search for him on her own.

As far as people thinking someone found in King County could be Nicholas, who are we supposed to think it might be? Villamu Fale? If there are dozens of young men missing in King County perhaps there is a serial killer?

I would say that there is some game playing on here, but it is not from the serious posters here. It could be from some who fly in and out on new names "seeking truth".

JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

That's right as rain, Rainy. :wink: She did say that.

Also, came on here to accuse that family of doing nothing because there was no sign, publicly, that they were looking.

JMO.
M.

Hi Musterion - I believe that is the pot calling the kettle black.

[RainyNiteNTx]

How do you expect someone who is thousands of miles away to look for Nicholas? All I can do is hope and pray that he's safe. May I ask what you've done to look for him? I'm assuming you're still in the area.

Eventhough I haven't posted much on this thread, I check every single day to see if there are updates. And YES if there is a male body found in Seattle, the first person I think about is Nicholas because he's the only one that I know of. If it was a female, I would think of Nancy Moyer or Alyssa eventhough I'm not even sure how close they are to Seatac.

I take offense to your accusation that we don't care about the pain the other families are going through for their lost loved one.

If and when the news is posted and the body is identified, I know many of us will pay our respects. We always did and always will.

ITA with your entire post!

[MystryPhobia]

I highly doubt the Bellevue man that was found deceases was Nicholas.. says he was 33 but they are not releasing his name. They are however saying the died of homocidal violence. Says he had been there a couple of days too. =(

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405488_bellevue23.html?source=mypi

The man that found him was actually posting on one of the blogs. I can't remember which but he said that some high school students pointed out the gentlemen to him and said that he hadn't moved.. then he went over and he was unresponsive so he promptly removed the students from the area and called 911. He was pretty shaken up tho.. said he went home and hugged his family. Said he didn't see any trauma to the body.

Still no word on the body found under Colman Docks.. which is strange.

[SeattleEddie]

I highly doubt the Bellevue man that was found deceases was Nicholas.. says he was 33 but they are not releasing his name. They are however saying the died of homocidal violence. Says he had been there a couple of days too. =(

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405488_bellevue23.html?source=mypi

The man that found him was actually posting on one of the blogs. I can't remember which but he said that some high school students pointed out the gentlemen to him and said that he hadn't moved.. then he went over and he was unresponsive so he promptly removed the students from the area and called 911. He was pretty shaken up tho.. said he went home and hugged his family. Said he didn't see any trauma to the body.

Still no word on the body found under Colman Docks.. which is strange.

I posted about this yesterday. The comments from the man who found the body are at the link. http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13035615&postcount=164

[MystryPhobia]

I posted about this yesterday. The comments from the man who found the body are at the link. http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13035615&postcount=164

Well.. the age of the man and the fact that it was a homocide was new information that nobody had yesterday!

[Musterion]

Yes, this is very odd. There was also another post where NF's wife felt the baby move at what would have been an impossibly early time. I'll have to go look for it to see how it fits in this impossible timeline. So many stories! It reminds me of the claim that all the donated money went to paying the house payments, when in fact, it didn't. It's clear that all the stories don't add up. What's most interesting are the people who insist on finding reasons and excuses for the inconsistencies (to put it kindly).

Hi SE,

Is this what you were looking for?

---I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered......
Posted at 12:15 pm, February 18 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=76

If conception took place 20 January, or approximately, then feeling the baby move would be about 4 weeks and 1 day.

Four Weeks Pregnant:

"Baby is approximately 1 mm long and looks sort of like a tadpole. Your ovary contains a tiny corpus luteum which is what is left of the follicle your egg was being housed in. The corpus luteum will produce progesterone until the placenta takes over progesterone production around 10 weeks after conception (when you are about 12 weeks pregnant). Right now the placenta is still forming and the cells that will become your baby are dividing at a rapid pace."
Read more: "4 Weeks Pregnant" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/four-weeks-pregnant.shtml#ixzz0Dd7OldR3&A

If conception took place 31 December, approximately, then feeling the baby move would be at 8 weeks.

Eight Weeks Pregnant:

"Baby’s crown to rump length is 12 mm. Baby weighs about 1 gram. Baby’s external ears are forming. Her primary or “baby” teeth buds are forming now. Her permanent teeth buds will be formed later. Baby’s optic nerve and eye lids are also forming. You can’t feel your baby moving yet but her arms and legs are moving now."
Read more: "8 Weeks Pregnant" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/eight-weeks-pregnant.shtml#ixzz0Dd7qS1dO&A

"Are you anxiously awaiting your baby's first kick? Or are you concerned that baby should be moving by now? Or do you have a leaping leprechaun in your belly and wondering if that is normal? Fetal movement varies from pregnancy to pregnancy. However, there are certain expectations given for all babies regarding fetal movement. Generally speaking, most women will feel baby move between 16-22 weeks. Although baby's arms and legs are developed and moving much earlier, her "kicks" will not be strong enough to be felt until the second trimester."
Read more: "Fetal Movements: How often and when should my baby move?" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/baby_movement.shtml#ixzz0Dd8JH9Sl&A

IMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

The child is Nicholas'... I don't know what is up with the whole dates it makes no sense to me but that baby is Nicholas' and IMO he is an INNOCENT human being in this and should not be drug into the feelings that some have about his mother.

The dates have nothing to do with my hunch and my hunch could have everything to do with Nick walking if that is what actually happened.

[CaresForKids]

Just for the record, it's homIcide...not homOcide.

[MystryPhobia]

The dates have nothing to do with my hunch and my hunch could have everything to do with Nick walking if that is what actually happened.

The child is Nicholas' child.. whether you have a hunch or not.

I think just the fact that you want to pick on the parentage of an innocent child when it is more than OBVIOUS that she was pregnant BEFORE Nicholas left.. is really sad to me. To me this has NOTHING to do with that baby and everything to do with your hatred for Christine. That is not fair. He is just a baby and if I have to sit here every single day and stick up for him.. you can bet that I will.

[CaresForKids]

The child is Nicholas' child.. whether you have a hunch or not.

I think just the fact that you want to pick on the parentage of an innocent child when it is more than OBVIOUS that she was pregnant BEFORE Nicholas left.. is really sad to me. To me this has NOTHING to do with that baby and everything to do with your hatred for Christine. That is not fair. He is just a baby and if I have to sit here every single day and stick up for him.. you can bet that I will.

So what you are saying is, you were there at conception? Don't be so naive. Just because a couple is married, doesn't mean one or both don't stray. Whether I hated C or not, it is a very HUGE possibility she had extramarital relations and it IS something to look at whether you decide it is or not. And for the record, Miss Cleo, no, I do not hate C and again, my hunch has nothing to do with the child's innocence.

[MystryPhobia]

So what you are saying is, you were there at conception? Don't be so naive. Just because a couple is married, doesn't mean one or both don't stray. Whether I hated C or not, it is a very HUGE possibility she had extramarital relations and it IS something to look at whether you decide it is or not. And for the record, Miss Cleo, no, I do not hate C and again, my hunch has nothing to do with the child's innocence.

There is not a HUGE possiblity.. if there IS such a HUGE possibilty of that then show us the proof! We have people stating that Nicholas was engaging in extra marital affairs. We have at least 3 different sites that proves what he was doing. But.. stilll we continuously hear.. if the detective didn't state it AS FACT POSITIVE.. cause GOD knows he eluded to it SEVERAL TIMES.. then it isn't proof positive and you won't believe it.

You people really get me sometimes. You have one standard for Nicholas and another for Christine. That makes absolutely no sense to me. For Christine... we believe that she was in an etsy chat slamming on Nicholas.. even tho there is NO PROOF of that. For Christine.. we will believe that sites that don't belong to her OR her sister are her. For Christine.. we will believe every little gesture and word means something cynical and evil. C'mon this is really getting ridiculous.

Do other people truly not see this?

So, I will put the same question back to you. WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE CHILD WAS CONCEIVED? If you were not then the child should be OFF LIMITS. PERIOD! Unless and until you can give me sound, legitiment proof that Christine was engaging in such behavior (and as we all know.. the proof would have to be pretty dang blatant.. by your own standards) the child is INNOCENT and does not deserve to be fodder for a bunch of gossiping.

Another question.. how do you know Nicholas didn't get some other girl pregnant and THAT is why he left?

[invreporter1105]

There is not a HUGE possiblity.. if there IS such a HUGE possibilty of that then show us the proof! We have people stating that Nicholas was engaging in extra marital affairs. We have at least 3 different sites that proves what he was doing. But.. stilll we continuously hear.. if the detective didn't state it AS FACT POSITIVE.. cause GOD knows he eluded to it SEVERAL TIMES.. then it isn't proof positive and you won't believe it.

You people really get me sometimes. You have one standard for Nicholas and another for Christine. That makes absolutely no sense to me. For Christine... we believe that she was in an etsy chat slamming on Nicholas.. even tho there is NO PROOF of that. For Christine.. we will believe that sites that don't belong to her OR her sister are her. For Christine.. we will believe every little gesture and word means something cynical and evil. C'mon this is really getting ridiculous.

Do other people truly not see this?

So, I will put the same question back to you. WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE CHILD WAS CONCEIVED? If you were not then the child should be OFF LIMITS. PERIOD! Unless and until you can give me sound, legitiment proof that Christine was engaging in such behavior (and as we all know.. the proof would have to be pretty dang blatant.. by your own standards) the child is INNOCENT and does not deserve to be fodder for a bunch of gossiping.

Another question.. how do you know Nicholas didn't get some other girl pregnant and THAT is why he left?

Good job sticking up for Christine. What makes you think that a man would leave his pregnant wife and children to be with another woman who he got pregnant? Does that really make sense, to throw one's current wife/child under the bus for another gf/child?

I don't believe for a second that Nicholas was that kind of father.

Also, how do you have proof that the stevenspazz profiles belong to Nicholas. Even if so, from what I have found, the accounts haven't been accessed since before he went missing.

How do you know so much about whom fathered Christine's baby? Have you seen a paternity test proving this? Did you know that her name has changed on her JPG Magazine site? It used to be Christine Francisco...Now it's Christine Carter, so what's up with that?

[Musterion]

Good job sticking up for Christine. What makes you think that a man would leave his pregnant wife and children to be with another woman who he got pregnant? Does that really make sense, to throw one's current wife/child under the bus for another gf/child?

I don't believe for a second that Nicholas was that kind of father.

Also, how do you have proof that the stephenspazz profiles belong to Nicholas. Even if so, from what I have found, the accounts haven't been accessed since before he went missing.

How do you know so much about whom fathered Christine's baby? Have you seen a paternity test proving this? Did you know that her name has changed on her JPG Magazine site? It used to be Christine Francisco...Now it's Christine Carter, so what's up with that?

Within 13 months of the love of her life going missing, she remarried.

When I confronted her with the engagement she said I had my facts wrong. She said that I was a liar.

IMO.
M.

[invreporter1105]

Within 13 months of the love of her life going missing, she remarried.

When I confronted her with the engagement she said I had my facts wrong. She said that I was a liar.

IMO.
M.

I know Musterion, I think we both know she was lying. Just my opinon.

[MystryPhobia]

Good job sticking up for Christine. What makes you think that a man would leave his pregnant wife and children to be with another woman who he got pregnant? Does that really make sense, to throw one's current wife/child under the bus for another gf/child?

I don't believe for a second that Nicholas was that kind of father.

Also, how do you have proof that the stevenspazz profiles belong to Nicholas. Even if so, from what I have found, the accounts haven't been accessed since before he went missing.

How do you know so much about whom fathered Christine's baby? Have you seen a paternity test proving this? Did you know that her name has changed on her JPG Magazine site? It used to be Christine Francisco...Now it's Christine Carter, so what's up with that?

I am NOT sticking up for Christine.. I am sticking up for children that had NOTHING to do with any of this.

You don't believe Nicholas was what kind of father? I was only stating the opposite scenerio that was posted about Christine. Your post back to me just proves my point all the more. You didn't answer when the paternity of the child was being questioned but you answer when I say it about Nicholas? This is exactly what I am talking about. Is this really being unbiased?

How does ANYONE know about the paternity of the child but you don't ask that same question of posters that say that Christine had another man's child.. puhleez.. like I said.. you just proved my point.

Hey.. Envision.. I just spelled please wrong.. you might want to correct me.

[MystryPhobia]

Within 13 months of the love of her life going missing, she remarried.

When I confronted her with the engagement she said I had my facts wrong. She said that I was a liar.

IMO.
M.

I guess she did, huh?

We knew you weren't a liar, M!

[Musterion]

I guess she did, huh?

We knew you weren't a liar, M!

Thanks, M.

You know what. I knew she was getting married quickly. I believe she posted the things about Nicholas being alive and in San Diego for a reason.

I have thought and thought about why that could be.

What comes to mind after watching Christine Francisco, now Carter, for the last year and having some communication with her, is that she expedited her new marriage.

I think she may have put the info out here, that is obviously false, to get this man to marry her quickly. If they married quickly she would not have to change her lifestyle, whatsoever, and make a living for her children.

I think it was a calculating move on her part. And, I think that she instrumented it well enough that he probably even thinks that it was all his idea.

I know Christine and her husband are reading here. And I welcome any dialogue with either of them. I offer my prayers for them and for Nicholas' children because something is wrong and has been wrong since before 13 February 2008. And, I don't believe the wrong was all Nicholas'.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I know Musterion, I think we both know she was lying. Just my opinon.

It's all really sad, isn't it, Inv?

Sad for the children especially. What must Nicholas' little girl think with the whirlwind of a year she has had. God help that little one.

IMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

I hope Mr. Carter doesn't go missing one day.......

[Musterion]

I find this case entirely confusing. A man goes missing the day before Valentine's Day. Symbolic? And if so, how? Did the man have a secret lover? Or maybe it was the wife hiding a secret love affair. Maybe the affair started after the husband went missing.

Or was this a crime involving fraud? Was it pre-planned by both husband and wife? Probably not since the missing husband has not been seen, nor heard from in 14 months.

The only person from the whole family whom has spoken out is the wife. First she appears on news media pleading for help finding her missing husband. No, she pleads for the public to find her missing husband, or else her kids won't have a dad.

Then donations of money and housing begin to roll in after postings appear online that the wife is in dire financial need. Once ppl start to question her comments and motives, she becomes angry which is reflected in her internet postings.

Then she stops pleading for help from the public, she avoids publicity altogather, even national exposure through a very popular broadcast news program.

Suddenly, the rumors begin to fly when, according to LE, the wife publicly says her missing husband was leading a 'double life'. Well, what did that mean exactly? Internet users were posing these questions using online message boards. After a few days, newly registered users post that the husband is alive and involved in some controversial sex life. When asked for links to where these posters got this information, there were no links to be given.

So my question is: Are these unknown posters attempting to deflect attention from someone?

Here's what is known:

1. A man is missing.

2. He hasn't been heard from, seen, or tracked down in over a year.

3. Co-workers of the missing man say nothing was obviously unusual the day he went missing.

4. The man's car was found a few days later in a condo parking lot in a town he rarely, if ever, had been to as far as anyone knows.

5. The missing man's wife began pleading for people to find her husband. A desperate attempt to seem like the perfect little wife with the perfect little husband? No problems at all?

6. The wife gets donations of money, housing, and whatever else.

7. The public begins asking tough quesitons like, "How does the seemingly devastated wife have time to post messages all over the internet, post new photos of herself on Myspace, take down all of her husband's phots from online, etc, etc, etc?"

8. The wife becomes uncomfortable with these questions, which can be noted from reading some of her posts which indicate her annoyance.

9. The wife refuses further interviews and avoids responding to posts online.

10. The missing man's wife begins publicly saying that her husband was leading a double life.

11. The wife divorces her husband, taking full custody of the kids, all while the man is still missing.

12. The wife deletes her Myspace account and other accounts and stops selling via her online shops, which she claims were her only source of income.

So what's up with this? Are all of these facts not enough for reasonable cause to haul this wife into the station for a long interrogation? Why has the husband not been found? Why hasn't he spoken out about how his ex-wife is defaming him, and keeping his kids from him, and divorcing him, and moving on to a, dare I say a 'new life'?

This is all my opinion. Somebody, somewhere...probably someone reading this very message..knows where Nicholas Francisco is. They know whether he is dead or alive. So it's time to speak up and speak loud because a year has now gone by. It's time to bring some closure for his family and his children. Where is Nicholas Francisco????

I think it would be appropriate to add a number 13 to your list. :sad:

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I hope Mr. Carter doesn't go missing one day.......

Gulp. :ohmy:

Anything about the body found under the pier, SE? I haven't had time to check the news.

IMO.
M.

[inv]

http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-Chambliss/775424302

Doesn't she make the lovely little bride? Sorry, but this is just sick, imo.

The truth about what happened to Nicholas, after he left work 2/13/08, won't be a secret forever. He will one day be found, either accidentally, or otherwise. Someone once told me that there is no such thing as 'gone without a trace'. I believe that. The truth is out there, and it's just a matter of time.

imo

[CaresForKids]

There is not a HUGE possiblity.. if there IS such a HUGE possibilty of that then show us the proof! We have people stating that Nicholas was engaging in extra marital affairs. We have at least 3 different sites that proves what he was doing. But.. stilll we continuously hear.. if the detective didn't state it AS FACT POSITIVE.. cause GOD knows he eluded to it SEVERAL TIMES.. then it isn't proof positive and you won't believe it.

You people really get me sometimes. You have one standard for Nicholas and another for Christine. That makes absolutely no sense to me. For Christine... we believe that she was in an etsy chat slamming on Nicholas.. even tho there is NO PROOF of that. For Christine.. we will believe that sites that don't belong to her OR her sister are her. For Christine.. we will believe every little gesture and word means something cynical and evil. C'mon this is really getting ridiculous.

Do other people truly not see this?

So, I will put the same question back to you. WERE YOU THERE WHEN THE CHILD WAS CONCEIVED? If you were not then the child should be OFF LIMITS. PERIOD! Unless and until you can give me sound, legitiment proof that Christine was engaging in such behavior (and as we all know.. the proof would have to be pretty dang blatant.. by your own standards) the child is INNOCENT and does not deserve to be fodder for a bunch of gossiping.

Another question.. how do you know Nicholas didn't get some other girl pregnant and THAT is why he left?

THE CHILDREN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT C COULD HAVE (YES YES YES SHE COULD HAVE) HAD AN AFFAIR JUST AS WELL AS NICK HAVE AN ALTERNATE LIFE. Why are you in such denial over this or are you just holding Nick to a double standard? Where is the proof Nick IS the father? Let's see what you have to prove my hunch wrong. C'mon since you're so absolutely sure of yourself. Naivety gets you nowhere here.

[SeattleEddie]

Gulp. :ohmy:

Anything about the body found under the pier, SE? I haven't had time to check the news.

IMO.
M.

I haven't seen anything Musterion, although I'm checking every day.

p.s. more wedding photos available on FB

[CaresForKids]

It's all really sad, isn't it, Inv?

Sad for the children especially. What must Nicholas' little girl think with the whirlwind of a year she has had. God help that little one.

IMO.
M.

Hopefully her daughter will break this mold she has been cast into.

[CaresForKids]

A scarlet dress...how appropriate. :laugh:

[MystryPhobia]

THE CHILDREN HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT C COULD HAVE (YES YES YES SHE COULD HAVE) HAD AN AFFAIR JUST AS WELL AS NICK HAVE AN ALTERNATE LIFE. Why are you in such denial over this or are you just holding Nick to a double standard? Where is the proof Nick IS the father? Let's see what you have to prove my hunch wrong. C'mon since you're so absolutely sure of yourself. Naivety gets you nowhere here.

I don't need anything to prove your hunch. Your HUNCH is just what it is.. a hunch. Just leave the baby out of it!

We have information that Nicholas was! (don't bother with the typical response cause I have already heard them so I will spare your fingers)

No double standard, my dear.. if anything.. that would be some of the posters here... and IS what I have been trying to point out!

Your hunch is not proof. Unless you are stating that you are a some kind of clairvoyant. Then.. of course.. you need to state that so that we have that knowledge while reading your posts. Right now.. it seems like you just want to slam on Christine and put Nicholas on a pedalstal that he could never live up.. that none of us could live up to.

[SeattleEddie]

Hi SE,

Is this what you were looking for?

---I felt our baby move last night. I was so excited I tried to call Nicholas to tell him but then i remembered......
Posted at 12:15 pm, February 18 2008 EST

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?t ... 50&page=76

If conception took place 20 January, or approximately, then feeling the baby move would be about 4 weeks and 1 day.

Four Weeks Pregnant:

"Baby is approximately 1 mm long and looks sort of like a tadpole. Your ovary contains a tiny corpus luteum which is what is left of the follicle your egg was being housed in. The corpus luteum will produce progesterone until the placenta takes over progesterone production around 10 weeks after conception (when you are about 12 weeks pregnant). Right now the placenta is still forming and the cells that will become your baby are dividing at a rapid pace."
Read more: "4 Weeks Pregnant" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/four-weeks-pregnant.shtml#ixzz0Dd7OldR3&A

If conception took place 31 December, approximately, then feeling the baby move would be at 8 weeks.

Eight Weeks Pregnant:

"Baby’s crown to rump length is 12 mm. Baby weighs about 1 gram. Baby’s external ears are forming. Her primary or “baby” teeth buds are forming now. Her permanent teeth buds will be formed later. Baby’s optic nerve and eye lids are also forming. You can’t feel your baby moving yet but her arms and legs are moving now."
Read more: "8 Weeks Pregnant" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/eight-weeks-pregnant.shtml#ixzz0Dd7qS1dO&A

"Are you anxiously awaiting your baby's first kick? Or are you concerned that baby should be moving by now? Or do you have a leaping leprechaun in your belly and wondering if that is normal? Fetal movement varies from pregnancy to pregnancy. However, there are certain expectations given for all babies regarding fetal movement. Generally speaking, most women will feel baby move between 16-22 weeks. Although baby's arms and legs are developed and moving much earlier, her "kicks" will not be strong enough to be felt until the second trimester."
Read more: "Fetal Movements: How often and when should my baby move?" - http://www.justmommies.com/articles/baby_movement.shtml#ixzz0Dd8JH9Sl&A

IMO.
M.

thanks for finding that.

Things just don't add up. My guess is that if she felt the baby move on Feb 18, conception would have been 16 weeks prior (at least), makes it the first week of November.

But, sheeesh. Can we believe a single thing when someone does not tell the truth about anything?

[CaresForKids]

I don't need anything to prove your hunch your. You HUNCH is just what it is a hunch. Just leave the baby out of it!

We have information that Nicholas was! (don't bother with the typical response cause I have already heard them so I will spare your fingers)

No double standard, my dear.. if anything.. that would be some of the posters here... and IS what I have been trying to point out!

Your hunch is not proof. Unless you are stating that you are a some kind of clairvoyant. Then.. of course.. you need to state that so that we have that knowledge while reading your posts. Right now.. it seems like you just want to slam on Christine and put Nicholas on a pedalstal that he could never live up.. that none of us could live up to.

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound? I NEVER claimed my hunch to be proof. You're reading things again that just are not there. I am sorry you cannot handle the bigger picture in your tiny spotless world. However, you also have no found proof other than C's word that Nick had any alternate lifestyle going. C's word is just about as solid as running water.

[inv]

It's a really sad day in time when a husband goes missing, the wife pleads for 'help' (to get donations?), then she goes around saying that her husband was involved in a 'secret life' (and he isn't around to defend himself), then she goes off and gets a divorce and makes certain that the missing husband won't get to see the kids, then she decides that it's ok to get married to someone else even though her kids had just went through a whole year knowing their dad was a missing man.

Christine is able to speak for herself. She isn't missing.

Nicholas can't speak for himself, yet Christine has been defaming him since a month after he went missing.

just my opinion

[SeattleEddie]

I don't need anything to prove your hunch. Your HUNCH is just what it is.. a hunch. Just leave the baby out of it!

We have information that Nicholas was! (don't bother with the typical response cause I have already heard them so I will spare your fingers)

No double standard, my dear.. if anything.. that would be some of the posters here... and IS what I have been trying to point out!

Your hunch is not proof. Unless you are stating that you are a some kind of clairvoyant. Then.. of course.. you need to state that so that we have that knowledge while reading your posts. Right now.. it seems like you just want to slam on Christine and put Nicholas on a pedalstal that he could never live up.. that none of us could live up to.

I just have to wonder why you are posting so passionately and with such certainty about something you surely don't know. Cares for kids has said it's a hunch. You are the one who seems to be absolutely convinced of your position. In the first place, it would be fairly obvious if the child's father is the missing man's ex-wife's new husband. If it's someone else, one wouldn't know without a DNA test.

And the bottom line, really, is that NF is missing. Although his ex-wife is working very hard to stay in hiding, she in not missing, and is in fact remarried, living, breathing, walking around and able to relish the beauty of spring in the Pacific Northwest. Unlike Nicholas.

[MystryPhobia]

Do you realize how hypocritical you sound? I NEVER claimed my hunch to be proof. You're reading things again that just are not there. I am sorry you cannot handle the bigger picture in your tiny spotless world. However, you also have no found proof other than C's word that Nick had any alternate lifestyle going. C's word is just about as solid as running water.

You know what? You don't know me and you have no idea what I believe or think. To call me hypocritical when I have been here and taken time out of my life to find the TRUTH.. not go on emotion but FACTS in this case because I care.. NO matter what any of them where doing on the side... is ridiculous. And to tell you the truth.. I wonder what you even mean by being a hypocrit. Yeah, Nicholas hit a spot in my heart.. just like everyone else but that does not mean I am going to sit here and completely TEAR another human being apart.

I have seen murders get better treatment on this board. I am appalled at the lynch mob mentality. The blatant disregard for facts and the pure hatred that some show.

The raw and REAL truth of the matter is.. that no matter what someone's hunch may be or what someone thinks or feels.. NONE OF US HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE NICHOLAS IS OR WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. Not me, not you.. none of us.. So, we are all just speaking out of our you know whats when it comes to any of it.

I just know that I have a moral obligation for myself to not do or say something that I will not be able to stand behind.. NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME IS!

IMO that child is off limits and I will stand by that til the end!

[MystryPhobia]

I just have to wonder why you are posting so passionately and with such certainty about something you surely don't know. Cares for kids has said it's a hunch. You are the one who seems to be absolutely convinced of your position. In the first place, it would be fairly obvious if the child's father is the missing man's ex-wife's new husband. If it's someone else, one wouldn't know without a DNA test.

And the bottom line, really, is that NF is missing. Although his ex-wife is working very hard to stay in hiding, she in not missing, and is in fact remarried, living, breathing, walking around and able to relish the beauty of spring in the Pacific Northwest. Unlike Nicholas.

Yes.. because you couldn't look at a child and see if he looked like his siblings or not. You couldn't tell whether he had darker skin or white skin.

So, now we blame people because they are not missing? Wow, what has this board come to? Sad!

[CaresForKids]

You know what? You don't know me and you have no idea what I believe or think. To call me hypocritical when I have been here and taken time out of my life to find the TRUTH.. not go on emotion but FACTS in this case because I care.. NO matter what any of them where doing on the side... is ridiculous. And to tell you the truth.. I wonder what you even mean by being a hypocrit. Yeah, Nicholas hit a spot in my heart.. just like everyone else but that does not mean I am going to sit here and completely TEAR another human being apart.

I have seen murders get better treatment on this board. I am appalled at the lynch mob mentality. The blatant disregard for facts and the pure hatred that some show.

The raw and REAL truth of the matter is.. that no matter what someone's hunch may be or what someone thinks or feels.. NONE OF US HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE NICHOLAS IS OR WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. Not me, not you.. none of us.. So, we are all just speaking out of our you know whats when it comes to any of it.

I just know that I have a moral obligation for myself to not do or say something that I will not be able to stand behind.. NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME IS!

IMO that child is off limits and I will stand by that til the end!

Oh puhleeeeeeeeeeeeze. Cry me a river.

[SeattleEddie]

Yes.. because you couldn't look at a child and see if he looked like his siblings or not. You couldn't tell whether he had darker skin or white skin.

So, now we blame people because they are not missing? Wow, what has this board come to? Sad!

No, we don't blame people. I don't think you could find any posting where I have blamed the wife for anything. I have said that she makes inconsistent statements, which is true. It's not blame.

On the other hand, we do advocate for the missing, at the very least, I would think. Those who are missing do not have a voice. Those who are living do have a voice; whether they use it for good or ill is their choice. It's a sad day when the living must have others to speak for them.

[MystryPhobia]

No, we don't blame people. I don't think you could find any posting where I have blamed the wife for anything. I have said that she makes inconsistent statements, which is true. It's not blame.

On the other hand, we do advocate for the missing, at the very least, I would think. Those who are missing do not have a voice. Those who are living do have a voice; whether they use it for good or ill is their choice. It's a sad day when the living must have others to speak for them.

I think we have an obligation to stand up for any victims whether missing or not. Those children are victims in this. Their dad is gone.. without a trace.

I also believe that we are capable of giving the missing person a voice. We have an obligation to tell their story. Whether we agree with it or not so that we can find out what happened to them. This is Nicholas' story. This was his life.

I understand the feeling about Christine and am not making excuses for what she has done. Yes... if she has lied about one thing then everything she has said comes into question. But.. only a few posters actually talk about this and lay out their reasonings for their feelings.. others will pick on every little thing.. to the point of having the opposite effect IMO.

As many of us know.. some of the most notorious killers had good sides to them. But.. when someone concedes nothing and just continually bashes on someone.. seems more personal than fact driven.

[Cheri_G]

http://userscripts.org/scripts/review/7981

Do any of you remember the nonoobs script? It's one thing we have not discussed very much regarding nicholas. How much did he like to "code" and make scripts, and notice the copyright? It's one of those little crumbs that has made me hope in this case he really was still alive, because he has effectively erased so much of his online content.

He didn't like those comments on youtube. Made a script, to block them.
Actually.

The last line of the code? Insight into someone's mind?

Remove Child next to the Parent Node. Now, I'm not a coder and I don't know if that would be normal part of a code....for parental controls or if he was just joking. I'm a fan of dry humor so I also see that.

Hi Bugout,

The copyright is March 2007. Nearly a year before he went missing.

The parentnode/remove child is part of the code. If you copy parentNode.removeChild into google you'll get tons of examples where its used.

[MystryPhobia]

Oh puhleeeeeeeeeeeeze. Cry me a river.

Well, of course. I wouldn't expect any intelligent conversation Cares.. if you aren't slamming someone.. you have nothing to say.. I got it!

[CaresForKids]

Well, of course. I wouldn't expect any intelligent conversation Cares.. if you aren't slamming someone.. you have nothing to say.. I got it!

Likewise sweetness. You haven't conversed anything. All you've done is blast me for having a HUNCH. Open your mind if you truly want to investigate this case. By shutting out any possibility that Nick may not be the father of the last child, you could also be shutting out one of the largest clues to his disappearance. This was part of my job for 14 years in LE, I know what I am talking about. If you don't like it, too bad. We can't all like everything but it also does not make me a hater or any of the other assorted words you have used to describe what you think you know of me.