Nicholas Francisco, Missing Since 2-13-08

[MystryPhobia]

Family pictures, reports of alleged babysitting, visits for plays, CF’s vote for NF’s sisters as most talented in her social network, does not imply a total break-down or lack of communication between the families of CF and NF before or initially after NF’s disappearance, IMO.

Do you think that Nicholas' family was told before the divorce was filed? Do you think that Nicholas' family was told before the new marriage? Do you think that Nicholas' family will be told before papers are filed for the children to be adopted?

I wonder what steps have to be gone through for someone that Christine married to adopt the children. Is it the same as getting a divorce? Can a summons just be published in the paper? Doesn't the state have to take away his parental rights before he can be adopted?

I used your post CuC but really just looking for dialogue about any of it, from anyone who may know.

[Cheri_G]

Do you think that Nicholas' family was told before the divorce was filed? Do you think that Nicholas' family was told before the new marriage? Do you think that Nicholas' family will be told before papers are filed for the children to be adopted?

I wonder what steps have to be gone through for someone that Christine married to adopt the children. Is it the same as getting a divorce? Can a summons just be published in the paper? Doesn't the state have to take away his parental rights before he can be adopted?

I used your post CuC but really just looking for dialogue about any of it, from anyone who may know.

Hi MP,

It wouldn't surprise me if Nick's family were not told before Christine did any of these things.

It also wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't cut them out of children's lives outright that she's made it very uncomfortable for them to be in contact with them.

I don't think Christine's new husband could adopt the children unless Nick gave up his parental rights and I would hope that the state could not forcibly strip him of his those rights at this time. He is officially a missing person and the reason for him being missing is unknown, so I don't see a case for wilfull abandonment.

I think its after 7 years a person can be declared officially dead? At that time an adoption could probably happen but I expect the family has to petition for that and I doubt Christine would be able to do it because she gave up her rights as his wife when she divorced him.

Maybe someone with some knowlege of WA state laws could provide some better insight into what could or couldn't be done.

[SilverDove]

Hi MP,

It wouldn't surprise me if Nick's family were not told before Christine did any of these things.

It also wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't cut them out of children's lives outright that she's made it very uncomfortable for them to be in contact with them.

I don't think Christine's new husband could adopt the children unless Nick gave up his parental rights and I would hope that the state could not forcibly strip him of his those rights at this time. He is officially a missing person and the reason for him being missing is unknown, so I don't see a case for wilfull abandonment.

I think its after 7 years a person can be declared officially dead? At that time an adoption could probably happen but I expect the family has to petition for that and I doubt Christine would be able to do it because she gave up her rights as his wife when she divorced him.

Maybe someone with some knowlege of WA state laws could provide some better insight into what could or couldn't be done.


http://deltabravo.net/custody/termWA.php

I would have to say that any court would see being gone for over a year to be "Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest" doesn't matter what the reason is. First thing to the courts would be the best interest of the children and if Christine's new husband was interested in being the children's father and they bonded with him I don't think the courts would have a problem terminating Nicholas' parental rights.

I don't think it will matter much if he is officially missing or not. At this point he is either unable or unwilling to continue as the children's father.

[Cheri_G]

http://deltabravo.net/custody/termWA.php

I would have to say that any court would see being gone for over a year to be "Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest" doesn't matter what the reason is. First thing to the courts would be the best interest of the children and if Christine's new husband was interested in being the children's father and they bonded with him I don't think the courts would have a problem terminating Nicholas' parental rights.

I don't think it will matter much if he is officially missing or not. At this point he is either unable or unwilling to continue as the children's father.

I expect (or hope anyways) that the process is a little more complicated than looking at that list and picking one.

I don't agree that any court would automatically see Nick's disappearance as Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest. There's another one under "other grounds" that mentions location or identity of parent unknown. Both those things kind of suggest to me that the parent in question is known to be alive, or its known that they left intentionally.

I don't think an adoption at this time (or any time in the near future) would be in the best interest of the children, particularly the older two. They both knew and loved their father and I don't feel enough time has passed that they should be asked to call another man "daddy". They've been through enough.

[Musterion]

Hi MP,

It wouldn't surprise me if Nick's family were not told before Christine did any of these things.

It also wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't cut them out of children's lives outright that she's made it very uncomfortable for them to be in contact with them.

I don't think Christine's new husband could adopt the children unless Nick gave up his parental rights and I would hope that the state could not forcibly strip him of his those rights at this time. He is officially a missing person and the reason for him being missing is unknown, so I don't see a case for wilfull abandonment.

I think its after 7 years a person can be declared officially dead? At that time an adoption could probably happen but I expect the family has to petition for that and I doubt Christine would be able to do it because she gave up her rights as his wife when she divorced him.

Maybe someone with some knowlege of WA state laws could provide some better insight into what could or couldn't be done.



Hi Cheri,

The letter of the law is cut and dry. Nicholas can be seen as abandoning and not providing for his children.

However, I would think that the spirit of the law may look at a missing person's case differently. IF his family petitioned the court for him and asked the court to suspend any adoption until there is proof that Nicholas has abandoned them of his free will OR he is found dead.

I suggested to Christine, about a year ago that, if she was so fearful that Nicholas might come back and take the children, something he would be allowed to do if there weren't any legal papers filed preventing him, to file to terminate his parental rights. She said that she didn't want to do that because their children would lose any Benefits if he was found dead. She said she would opt for sole custody of them in the divorce with an order of protection. Which is what she did.

I would hope his family will step in.

http://www.reliableadoption.com/states/washington_adoption.html

The grounds which typically justify the termination of parental rights in a stepparent adoption involve abandonment, failure to support the child, imprisonment, certain abuse, and other grounds. The grounds for the termination of parental rights is different for each state, but all states accept the grounds of abandonment and lack of support, and some states include other grounds.

In Washington, the absent parent has given implied consent to adoption or relinquishment pursuant to Section 26-10A-9 as outlined below:

1. The absent parent has abandoned the adoptee, failing to offer financial and /or emotional support for a period over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

2. The absent parent has knowingly left the adoptee with the other parent without provisions for support and without communication, or otherwise maintaining a significant parental relationship with the adoptee for a period of over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

3. The natural father failed to comply with Section 26-10C-1, which deals with the putative father.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I expect (or hope anyways) that the process is a little more complicated than looking at that list and picking one.

I don't agree that any court would automatically see Nick's disappearance as Abandonment or Extreme Parental Disinterest. There's another one under "other grounds" that mentions location or identity of parent unknown. Both those things kind of suggest to me that the parent in question is known to be alive, or its known that they left intentionally.

I don't think an adoption at this time (or any time in the near future) would be in the best interest of the children, particularly the older two. They both knew and loved their father and I don't feel enough time has passed that they should be asked to call another man "daddy". They've been through enough.








Also, Cheri, it isn't a procedure that Christine and Brent can just walk into court and sign a paper and that's that.

The court would, more than likely, assign a Guardian Ad Litem for the children. Zea is old enough to speak for herself and what she wants and why.

In some cases the judge can appoint an attorney to represent the absent father's interests.

Also, there would have to be a home study done. And, IMO, that is when relatives and friends would be called upon to give opinions on the adoption and what it would mean for the children, long term.

Both Brent and Christine would, more than likely, have to undergo evaluation by the courts as well as the home study. I believe a Psychologist could be requested for an analysis on both of them. I'm not sure if Christine would be wise to have a Psychologist analyze her or her new husband. It may work against her. IMO.

That is where Nicholas' family and friends could and should step in. To ask the courts to assign an ad litem as well as psychological evaluations with an in depth home study. IMO.

M.

[Cheri_G]

Hi Cheri,

The letter of the law is cut and dry. Nicholas can be seen as abandoning and not providing for his children.

However, I would think that the spirit of the law may look at a missing person's case differently. IF his family petitioned the court for him and asked the court to suspend any adoption until there is proof that Nicholas has abandoned them of his free will OR he is found dead.

I suggested to Christine, about a year ago that, if she was so fearful that Nicholas might come back and take the children, something he would be allowed to do if there weren't any legal papers filed preventing him, to file to terminate his parental rights. She said that she didn't want to do that because their children would lose any Benefits if he was found dead. She said she would opt for sole custody of them in the divorce with an order of protection. Which is what she did.

I would hope his family will step in.

http://www.reliableadoption.com/states/washington_adoption.html

The grounds which typically justify the termination of parental rights in a stepparent adoption involve abandonment, failure to support the child, imprisonment, certain abuse, and other grounds. The grounds for the termination of parental rights is different for each state, but all states accept the grounds of abandonment and lack of support, and some states include other grounds.

In Washington, the absent parent has given implied consent to adoption or relinquishment pursuant to Section 26-10A-9 as outlined below:

1. The absent parent has abandoned the adoptee, failing to offer financial and /or emotional support for a period over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

2. The absent parent has knowingly left the adoptee with the other parent without provisions for support and without communication, or otherwise maintaining a significant parental relationship with the adoptee for a period of over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

3. The natural father failed to comply with Section 26-10C-1, which deals with the putative father.

JMO.
M.

Thanks Musterion. It's unfortunate that in the case of a missing person that the period of time it takes to go this route isn't longer.

I still think to even consider something like adoption at this time is too soon for the children.

[Cheri_G]

Also, Cheri, it isn't a procedure that Christine and Brent can just walk into court and sign a paper and that's that.

The court would, more than likely, assign a Guardian Ad Litem for the children. Zea is old enough to speak for herself and what she wants and why.

In some cases the judge can appoint an attorney to represent the absent father's interests.

Also, there would have to be a home study done. And, IMO, that is when relatives and friends would be called upon to give opinions on the adoption and what it would mean for the children, long term.

Both Brent and Christine would, more than likely, have to undergo evaluation by the courts as well as the home study. I believe a Psychologist could be requested for an analysis on both of them. I'm not sure if Christine would be wise to have a Psychologist analyze her or her new husband. It may work against her. IMO.

That is where Nicholas' family and friends could and should step in. To ask the courts to assign an ad litem as well as psychological evaluations with an in depth home study. IMO.

M.

Thank you again. Do you think in a case like this where its undetermined if Nick left willingly or not a judge would appoint an attorney to represent his interests or is it more likely that his family would have to ask for it to be done?

[n/t]

Family pictures, reports of alleged babysitting, visits for plays, CF’s vote for NF’s sisters as most talented in her social network, does not imply a total break-down or lack of communication between the families of CF and NF before or initially after NF’s disappearance, IMO.

IIRC, Nicholas mom referred to Christine as "the wife" and her grandchildren as "the kids".

To me, that shows a distance in their relationship. I could be wrong but I sensed from the start that there was something odd.

Normally, you'd see mom and daughter-in-law united to find their missing loved one. I did not see that at all.

IMO of course!

[MystryPhobia]

IIRC, Nicholas mom referred to Christine as "the wife" and her grandchildren as "the kids".

To me, that shows a distance in their relationship. I could be wrong but I sensed from the start that there was something odd.

Normally, you'd see mom and daughter-in-law united to find their missing loved one. I did not see that at all.

IMO of course!

I got the same sense that you did. I don't think they were all that close IMO

[MystryPhobia]

Hi Cheri,

The letter of the law is cut and dry. Nicholas can be seen as abandoning and not providing for his children.

However, I would think that the spirit of the law may look at a missing person's case differently. IF his family petitioned the court for him and asked the court to suspend any adoption until there is proof that Nicholas has abandoned them of his free will OR he is found dead.

I suggested to Christine, about a year ago that, if she was so fearful that Nicholas might come back and take the children, something he would be allowed to do if there weren't any legal papers filed preventing him, to file to terminate his parental rights. She said that she didn't want to do that because their children would lose any Benefits if he was found dead. She said she would opt for sole custody of them in the divorce with an order of protection. Which is what she did.

I would hope his family will step in.

http://www.reliableadoption.com/states/washington_adoption.html

The grounds which typically justify the termination of parental rights in a stepparent adoption involve abandonment, failure to support the child, imprisonment, certain abuse, and other grounds. The grounds for the termination of parental rights is different for each state, but all states accept the grounds of abandonment and lack of support, and some states include other grounds.

In Washington, the absent parent has given implied consent to adoption or relinquishment pursuant to Section 26-10A-9 as outlined below:

1. The absent parent has abandoned the adoptee, failing to offer financial and /or emotional support for a period over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

2. The absent parent has knowingly left the adoptee with the other parent without provisions for support and without communication, or otherwise maintaining a significant parental relationship with the adoptee for a period of over 6 months from the filing of this petition.

3. The natural father failed to comply with Section 26-10C-1, which deals with the putative father.

JMO.
M.

She seemed not to be worried about this stuff. Perhaps she may want for him to adopt them but not know what it will entail.

A would almost bet that a CAGAL would be assigned to represent the children to the court, that is pretty common... thankfully for them.

[huskiki]

IIRC, Nicholas mom referred to Christine as "the wife" and her grandchildren as "the kids".

To me, that shows a distance in their relationship. I could be wrong but I sensed from the start that there was something odd.

Normally, you'd see mom and daughter-in-law united to find their missing loved one. I did not see that at all.

IMO of course!

Hey n/t :seeya:

I have to agree. Being called "the wife" by your mother-in-law comes across as cold. You would think that they would have put their differences aside in the first days/weeks that Nicholas disappeared, that didn't happen. It's odd to say the least.

[Musterion]

Thank you again. Do you think in a case like this where its undetermined if Nick left willingly or not a judge would appoint an attorney to represent his interests or is it more likely that his family would have to ask for it to be done?

From what I'm researching it would be helpful to have, at the very least, a letter or a spokesperson for the family asking the Judge to consider the abnormal circumstances of this case.

Other than that, depending on the Judge, he/she may just routinely ask for a court appointed attorney in the interest of an absent parent. Or not.

You know, Cheri, even a letter to the Judge from a 'disinterested' party could weigh in on the Judge's decision in this matter. IMO.

M.

[Musterion]

She seemed not to be worried about this stuff. Perhaps she may want for him to adopt them but not know what it will entail.

A would almost bet that a CAGAL would be assigned to represent the children to the court, that is pretty common... thankfully for them.

That's true, M., how are you feeling tonight?

If Christine's divorce attorney, Paul Petry, helps her with an adoption case he, more than likely, has already discussed all of this with her. I say that because she seemed to be pretty sure of someone adopting Nicholas' children and the law pertaining to that, when she posted.

Paul Petry, from what I've heard is a reputable and decent attorney. (Mars Hill would probably disagree since they fired him, unjustly. However, probably the best thing that could have happened to him! IMO)

JMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

That's true, M., how are you feeling tonight?

If Christine's divorce attorney, Paul Petry, helps her with an adoption case he, more than likely, has already discussed all of this with her. I say that because she seemed to be pretty sure of someone adopting Nicholas' children and the law pertaining to that, when she posted.

Paul Petry, from what I've heard is a reputable and decent attorney. (Mars Hill would probably disagree since they fired him, unjustly. However, probably the best thing that could have happened to him! IMO)

JMO.
M.

I am hangin in there.. thanks!

Yeah, didn't really think about this. She did seem very sure of herself in speaking about it. I am very much for adoption.. when it is in the best interest of the children. I do think that, in this instance, a little more time and care should really be taken before they do that. It really isn't about Christine but about those children. Who have every right to know where they come from and I have a feeling that she is basing all of her decisions on pure emotion at this point. The more it would hurt Nicholas IF he is out there.. the better. That makes me sad for the kids.

[CaresForKids]

The 2 older kids are not too young to understand what is going on and everything C does and says regarding their father, they will remember forever. I can see some point in their lives where they will learn the full truth and it will bite her big time in the butt.

[Musterion]

I am hangin in there.. thanks!

Yeah, didn't really think about this. She did seem very sure of herself in speaking about it. I am very much for adoption.. when it is in the best interest of the children. I do think that, in this instance, a little more time and care should really be taken before they do that. It really isn't about Christine but about those children. Who have every right to know where they come from and I have a feeling that she is basing all of her decisions on pure emotion at this point. The more it would hurt Nicholas IF he is out there.. the better. That makes me sad for the kids.

Get well my friend!!! And, maybe the Doctor's office is NOT the safest place to be right now!! Chicken Noodle Soup! Sleep! :)

I agree about Christine basing decisions on emotion. It would be very hard to NOT do that if you feel you have been betrayed and left, with your children, suddenly and unexpectedly. I have compassion for that, very much so.

Hopefully, a Judge would discern that and ask for more information before any determination would be made.

Zea and Noah are probably so battle weary. I pray that they would have a good chunk of time to settle into their new life before any decisions would be made. The heartbreaker in all of this is two (three) innocent children, bewildered and having feelings of rejection, hurt and anger that they don't know how to express. I believe that Christine loves those children. I hope that that love will overcome her feelings of confusion and betrayal, and she won't make emotional decisions that might hurt her children more in the long run.

JMO.
M.

[CaresForKids]

That's fine that you didn't add him but I did.. What's the big deal? Why so snippy and saying it was silly? :confused:

Because you were snippy first with your reply.