Tori Stafford

[n/t]

Victoria Stafford has not been seen since she failed to arrive home after school Wednesday.

Stafford is described as four-feet-five-inches, 62 pounds, with blond hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a green shirt, black velvet shirt, and black and white running shoes. She also had on a black jacket with white fur trim and may have been carrying a pink and purple backpack.

http://www.canada.com/news/Possible+lead+search+missing+girl/1483201/story.html

[n/t]

Another child missing and no amber alert activated. It upsets me to no end when they don't issue an alert. Good grief. They even have a description of the POI. UGH!

Come home safe, Tori. :rose:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Barb Murray, a local parent and former neighbour of Tori, said the girl was supposed to go to her uncle’s townhouse located in the Trillium Co-op after school.

More at the link..

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/04/09/9072211-sun.html



Amber Alert criteria includes a confirmed abduction, a credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor

What about this does not qualify for the amber alert? Clearly the person walking with Tori was not supposed to be with her, therefore the child could definately be in danger - there is a video of the description of the "abductor". How can they believe this child is not in danger?

[n/t]

Amber Alert criteria includes a confirmed abduction, a credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor

What about this does not qualify for the amber alert? Clearly the person walking with Tori was not supposed to be with her, therefore the child could definately be in danger - there is a video of the description of the "abductor". How can they believe this child is not in danger?

I don't know, Rainy. It really upsets me when they don't issue an Amber Alert. The criteria stinks, imo. An 8 year old doesn't run away so when they don't return home and they've questioned the parents, an alert should be issued immediately. We all know the first hours are crucial in a missing child case.

I don't know what to say. I hope they didn't drop the ball on this one. They even have a video for pete's sake. :sad:

[n/t]

Anyone with information is asked to call the OCPS at (519) 537-2323 or Crimestoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't know, Rainy. It really upsets me when they don't issue an Amber Alert. The criteria stinks, imo. An 8 year old doesn't run away so when they don't return home and they've questioned the parents, an alert should be issued immediately. We all know the first hours are crucial in a missing child case.

I don't know what to say. I hope they didn't drop the ball on this one. They even have a video for pete's sake. :sad:

Yeah, like Sandra Cantu possibly running away @@. I'm just really surprised a third grader was allowed to walk home. Usually the teachers stand out there and make sure the bus riders get on the right bus, and no one other than who is approved on a list cannot pick up the child. I guess if they are a walker, then there is no way to govern that.

[n/t]

Hi n/t

TY for starting this thread. I just saw a news report about Tori and was going to start one.

Peter

Off topic but I could not find Chris Coan's old thread. He has finally been recovered.
Christopher Coan 18.. Recovered 4/10/09 Deceased.. R.I.P. Chris
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=2152182&imageID=10801233


Hi Peter,

Glad to hear that Tori is getting exposure in the US. So sorry about Christopher. :sad:

[Maelstrom5]

Amber Alert criteria includes a confirmed abduction, a credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor

What about this does not qualify for the amber alert? Clearly the person walking with Tori was not supposed to be with her, therefore the child could definately be in danger - there is a video of the description of the "abductor". How can they believe this child is not in danger?

Here is what they said about criteria for a Amber Alert

"A credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor."

We have a 8 year old child missing; last seen with a stranger. We have a young girl who just moved into the area and may have asked said stranger for help with directions. If that does not meet the criteria then some one needs to re-write them!:cursing:

[RainyNiteNTx]

here is what they said about criteria for a amber alert

"a credible belief the victim is in danger and a description of the abductee and the abductor."

we have a 8 year old child missing; last seen with a stranger. We have a young girl who just moved into the area and may have asked said stranger for help with directions. If that does not meet the criteria then some one needs to re-write them!:cursing:

amennnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!

[BevAnn]

WHY are the being so stingy with issuing these Amber Alerts??!?!

What, they afraid someone will complain about being bothered by too many Amber notices??? Good grief Charlie Brown.:glare:

Bev

[ttcRider]

Victoria Stafford has not been seen since she failed to arrive home after school Wednesday.

Stafford is described as four-feet-five-inches, 62 pounds, with blond hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a green shirt, black velvet shirt, and black and white running shoes. She also had on a black jacket with white fur trim and may have been carrying a pink and purple backpack.

http://www.canada.com/news/Possible+lead+search+missing+girl/1483201/story.html

Thanks n/t for this thread, I was just coming here to start one.

[koawally]

Change sex offender laws

Please sign this petition and please pass it around to your friends, families and neighbors. Together we can ALL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

This petition was started April 07 2009.
Too many children have died. Too many children have been raped and murdered. Too many of these crimes are committed by repeat violent sex offenders and we will not stand for this anymore. When this petition has reached its goal of 10,000 people, It will be forwarded to every official and Government representative around the world I can find. Please take a moment to help protect all of our children. This is not someone else's problem. it is ours. All of us. Act now before it happens to another child. Thanks


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/change-sex-offender-laws

[streeter]

I hate to put this out there, but I'm thinking Tori was targeted. There just seems to be a lot going on in her life right now. She moved last week to a different house with her mother, there's a bio-dad who keeps saying he hasn't slept since she went missing (always raises a red flag for me) and a step-dad who is now with the mother during searches and interviews, even though a friend said that Tori moved to the house with her mother. One searcher said that he is returning the favour to Tori's step-dad, who helped him find his own daughter when the girl went missing for a short time at a fair.

There are lots of videos of friends and neighbours out looking and pleading for Tori's safe return. Her mother and step-dad have told media that since their initial plea and announcing of a reward, they will not give any more interviews or statements and they have now asked their friends to not speak to the media.

:scared:

OMG. I would be telling everyone to please keep talking, keep pleading, keep her name and picture out there! Nobody who has talked to the media has, in my opinion, slandered the family. The worst they've done, I guess, is to give out information about Tori's recently changed living situation.

Would police be telling them to lay low, and telling them to tell their friends to lay low? No Amber Alert? I mean, WTF is going on?

To top all this off, here's one of the more idiotic LE statements (http://www.680news.com/more.jsp?content=20090410_132637_5112) I've ever read:

"Cst. Laurie-Anne Maitland, from Oxford police, said there was no apparent struggle in the video, which is a good sign."

Idiot. :cursing:

[RainyNiteNTx]

I hate to put this out there, but I'm thinking Tori was targeted. There just seems to be a lot going on in her life right now. She moved last week to a different house with her mother, there's a bio-dad who keeps saying he hasn't slept since she went missing (always raises a red flag for me) and a step-dad who is now with the mother during searches and interviews, even though a friend said that Tori moved to the house with her mother. One searcher said that he is returning the favour to Tori's step-dad, who helped him find his own daughter when the girl went missing for a short time at a fair.

There are lots of videos of friends and neighbours out looking and pleading for Tori's safe return. Her mother and step-dad have told media that since their initial plea and announcing of a reward, they will not give any more interviews or statements and they have now asked their friends to not speak to the media.

:scared:

OMG. I would be telling everyone to please keep talking, keep pleading, keep her name and picture out there! Nobody who has talked to the media has, in my opinion, slandered the family. The worst they've done, I guess, is to give out information about Tori's recently changed living situation.

Would police be telling them to lay low, and telling them to tell their friends to lay low? No Amber Alert? I mean, WTF is going on?

To top all this off, here's one of the more idiotic LE statements (http://www.680news.com/more.jsp?content=20090410_132637_5112) I've ever read:

"Cst. Laurie-Anne Maitland, from Oxford police, said there was no apparent struggle in the video, which is a good sign."
Idiot. :cursing:

(highlighted by me)
OMG - are they NUTS? A little third grader is supposed to struggle with an adult when no telling what the adult told her. Possibly that her mother had sent her, her mother was hurt and she would take her to her - she was a friend of her uncle and he asked her to pick him up. The possibilities are endless.

[Maelstrom5]

Hi n/t,

It’s off topic but the other boards are shut down till Monday and I wanted to give you a thumbs up. :thumbsup:

As you probably know 28-year-old Melissa Huckaby, The granddaughter of Pastor Clifford Lawless, has been arrested for the murder of Sandra Cantu. Of the hundreds of people who have posted on Sandra’s thread you were the only one who saw what I saw in the multiple search warrants; the fact that the police had no firm suspect. Or if they did they were not releasing that information. There may be more to come; other twists to this case. Other arrests may be in the works, but as of now it looks like the “person as yet unnamed” committed the crime.

Many people were beating up on the three men whose names were in the press, and some were willing to point fingers based on a few brief news statements, we were not. We noted their actions were strange, in one case (The Kiss) inappropriate, but also realized that nothing reported pointed to certain guilt.

I will have a lot more to say about what happened on our board and even more so what was said in the local papers come Monday, I just want to be the first to tell you your observations were right on the money.

PS; Just so this post is not completely off the subject, the news reports about Tori’s case are strange, I am not sure what to make of them yet but something seems to be off kilter in what’s going on in Woodstock.

Praying that Tori is recovered safe
Peter

[n/t]

Hi Peter,

We're following Sandra's case here http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=12992882#post12992882

Whenever the forums are closed down for the holidays, CW creates a Temporary Forum where most cases are discussed. http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?f=624

First thing I thought of when I heard the news about Sandra's murderer was Tori. A woman was seen with Tori. God, I hope Tori will be safe but this latest news doesn't give me much hope. I pray for a better outcome for Tori.

Very shocking that a woman would do this.

[n/t]

streeter,

To me it sounds like LE may have told the family to stay away from the media. Maybe the woman in the photo has been identified and they're waiting on positive identification. I have a feeling the public probably recognized the woman and called police. That's just a gut feeling though.

As for the guy saying he's helping the stepdad because his own daughter went missing at a fair and stepdad helped him find her, I took that to mean his little girl probably got lost. We see that happening at fairs, amusement parks or even malls.

I agree with the ridiculous statement made by the police. I also can't understand why no amber alert. I just don't get it. I hope they didn't drop the ball on this one. Time is crucial. She's been missing for 4 days now.
:sad:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Morning n/t - hopefully this will be a case of a person wanting a beautiful little girl and no harm will come to her.

[Maelstrom5]

Hi All,

In fairness to Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland we are reading one statement taken out of a news update and that statement may very well be taken out of context. She also has this to say:

“Although police do not suspect foul play in the young girl's disappearance, they have not ruled it out, said Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland.”

Surely we can agree that video of a young girl walking with a woman is preferable to seeing a child pulled into a car by some unknown male. So to that extent it is good news. I don’t think it is fair to assume that Cont. Maitland is not worried, or that she fails to comprehend that something bad may have happened after Tori walks outside the range of the camera.

We should also realize that in the absence of evidence that foul play has in fact taken place the police traditionally try to put a positive face on the hoped for outcome.

[Maelstrom5]

Where's little Tori?

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/11/9082816-sun.html

Some interesting comments from the locals. I haven't heard anything about the uncle except that Tori was supposed to go there after school.

Anybody else find it strange that he hasn't come forward? We don't know his name or anything about him. Did I miss it?

Yes I do. It seems strange that Tori would go missing in the first place. (She is only 8 and there is no report that she talked about running away)

At first I felt maybe because it was a new home that she got lost but if that had been the case she would most likely have been found by the next morning.

When I first read about the uncle I figured that Tori's mom was working and that she was going to the uncle’s house because her mom did not get home until later. The fact the uncle has not come forward is strange. But then I find the fact the family will no longer speak to the press and told their friends not to say anything, strange; as you said maybe that is at the request of the police, but it does seem contrary to what happens in most missing children cases were there is no obvious signs of a crime.

[n/t]

Vigil planned for Sunday at 8 pm. Organizers asking for donations of taper candles and plastic cups.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jEXxTR7D8ZGQ4qM7BozThDC349PQ

[n/t]

Anyone who may have been near the area and observed any suspicious people or anyone with information is asked to call the Oxford Community Police Service or Crime Stoppers at 421-TIPS (8477) or toll free at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

[Maelstrom5]

Vigil planned for Sunday at 8 pm. Organizers asking for donations of taper candles and plastic cups.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jEXxTR7D8ZGQ4qM7BozThDC349PQ

I am really starting to worry about the unknown woman. The police are now calling her a person of interest; before just a potential witness.

Woodstock is not that large a city and Tori's story has gained traction all over Canada. I have Tori's name on Google alert and stories/TV news reports are coming from every major city in Canada and even some small town papers, so there is very little chance she has not seen one.

[Nen]

I hope that little Tori is found safe. If a child is missing an Amber Alert should always be issued. Always. I'd rather be bombarded with AA's all day then to not hear about a child missing that could have been helped with more exposure. There shouldn't need to be any reqirements when a child is missing.

[streeter]

In many of the media reports that are critical of the police response, people are speculating that LE aren't labeling this an "abduction" because the stranger seen on video with Tori is female.

How ironic that today we find out that the alleged murderer of Sandra Cantu is female.

Karla taught us that women can be psychopaths, too. We can't just assume that a child is safe with a woman. A stranger is a stranger.

[shadowdiana]

(snipped) But then I find the fact the family will no longer speak to the press and told their friends not to say anything, strange; as you said maybe that is at the request of the police, but it does seem contrary to what happens in most missing children cases were there is no obvious signs of a crime.


Maybe they have learned to keep quiet from the Anthony's ...:scared:

[n/t]

In many of the media reports that are critical of the police response, people are speculating that LE aren't labeling this an "abduction" because the stranger seen on video with Tori is female.

How ironic that today we find out that the alleged murderer of Sandra Cantu is female.

Karla taught us that women can be psychopaths, too. We can't just assume that a child is safe with a woman. A stranger is a stranger.

I agree streeter. It's a scary world we live in. Gender, location...doesn't matter. It happens everywhere.

Hug your children everyday and keep them safe. :crying:

[n/t]

Public urged to keep search for Victoria in spotlight

child safety expert and former London police officer is urging the public and media to keep attention on the search for missing eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

“People, don’t forget about it,” pleaded Samantha Wilson, founder and president of Kidproof Canada/USA, based in Surrey, B.C.

“Let’s not stop talking about this. Let’s just keep talking about it.”

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/11/9087351.html

[n/t]

Stafford made a plea for his daughter to contact her family if she can.

“No matter where you are. I don’t care where you are, just, I want you to come home, baby. I will come get you wherever you are. Just call. I want to hear that call,” he said.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/CityandRegion/2009/04/11/9087071.html

[moonlite]

streeter,

To me it sounds like LE may have told the family to stay away from the media. Maybe the woman in the photo has been identified and they're waiting on positive identification. I have a feeling the public probably recognized the woman and called police. That's just a gut feeling though.

As for the guy saying he's helping the stepdad because his own daughter went missing at a fair and stepdad helped him find her, I took that to mean his little girl probably got lost. We see that happening at fairs, amusement parks or even malls.

I agree with the ridiculous statement made by the police. I also can't understand why no amber alert. I just don't get it. I hope they didn't drop the ball on this one. Time is crucial. She's been missing for 4 days now.
:sad:

Greetings'
N/T'

I think the Amber Alert criteria needs to be updated;meaning if a child is missing, issue an alert. Yes' time can be very critical with a missing child case.

My take on this' could the police believe that this is a custody case and that is why they didn't issue an Amber Alert?

I really hope this little girl is found safe.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Greetings'
N/T'

I think the Amber Alert criteria needs to be updated;meaning if a child is missing, issue an alert. Yes' time can be very critical with a missing child case.

My take on this' could the police believe that this is a custody case and that is why they didn't issue an Amber Alert?

I really hope this little girl is found safe.

Moonlite

According to the police, at the time they had no reason to believe Tori was abducted or in danger so that's why no Amber Alert was issued but now that they know she was seen walking with a stranger, I don't understand why they're not issuing one. I don't understand it and it absolutely makes no sense to me.

I just found this link and apparently Tori's mom and dad were separated in December. Dad says the separation is an "ongoing struggle". I'm not quite sure what he means by that.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jEXxTR7D8ZGQ4qM7BozThDC349PQ

[n/t]

Stafford said he has seen the video "almost a thousand times but I have no idea who the woman is. I keep going through it, hoping to find something that will identify (her) but there's nothing," he said outside the police station in downtown Woodstock where he was with friends and family. He said he and Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, whom he is separated from, have no idea who would want to take the little girl away.

"I was very surprised to see Tori walk away with someone like that. She's not like that. She's very smart and careful," said Stafford. "No, there is no disgruntled family at all. This is makes no sense," waving a flyer with a smiling Tori's photograph.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/617277


In the same link, police is saying they've received many tips regarding the identity of the woman in the video. They're confident she will be identified soon.

I hope they will soon.

Tori :rose:

[Maelstrom5]

Mystery deepens in case of missing girl
No one recognizes woman seen in video with Tori Stafford, baffling family, police
www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617197

**Snipped**

WOODSTOCK, Ont. – “Rodney Stafford has seen the blurry, minute-long surveillance video more than a thousand times but, for the life of him, says he cannot recognize the woman walking off with his 8-year-old daughter, Victoria.
"I keep going through it hoping to find something that will identify (the woman), but there's nothing," a tearful Stafford said yesterday. "It almost looks as if she's skipping and is happy to be with the woman. But who is the woman; I have no idea."
It's the question on everyone's mind…”

…"Looking at the video, it's easy for me to say Tori is not resisting (the woman)," said Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland. "That means she knows her and it makes me hopeful that she is well. Sometimes, people take kids because they love them."…

Sorry Const. Maitland is wrong here. Tori is only 8, the fact that she is seen going willingly with the woman only means that she does not view this person as a threat. We all know how many times a young child can be fooled into going with a stranger to; “Help find a lost dog or cat. Because the woman says she is going to take the child to her parents. Because the adult says they are a member of Law Enforcement.” The list of rouses goes on and on.

As streeter pointed out just because this stranger is a female is no guarantee that she does not have evil intentions.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I would assume and hope that all teachers, teachers' aids, etc. have been ruled out. That would be some people Tori would know and have no reason to question.

[n/t]

Mystery deepens in case of missing girl
No one recognizes woman seen in video with Tori Stafford, baffling family, police
www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617197

**Snipped**

WOODSTOCK, Ont. – “Rodney Stafford has seen the blurry, minute-long surveillance video more than a thousand times but, for the life of him, says he cannot recognize the woman walking off with his 8-year-old daughter, Victoria.
"I keep going through it hoping to find something that will identify (the woman), but there's nothing," a tearful Stafford said yesterday. "It almost looks as if she's skipping and is happy to be with the woman. But who is the woman; I have no idea."
It's the question on everyone's mind…”

…"Looking at the video, it's easy for me to say Tori is not resisting (the woman)," said Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland. "That means she knows her and it makes me hopeful that she is well. Sometimes, people take kids because they love them."…

Sorry Const. Maitland is wrong here. Tori is only 8, the fact that she is seen going willingly with the woman only means that she does not view this person as a threat. We all know how many times a young child can be fooled into going with a stranger to; “Help find a lost dog or cat. Because the woman says she is going to take the child to her parents. Because the adult says they are a member of Law Enforcement.” The list of rouses goes on and on.

As streeter pointed out just because this stranger is a female is no guarantee that she does not have evil intentions.



I agree, Peter. I'm getting frustrated with the way this case is being handled. Just because Tori seems to be happy and going along with this woman means nothing. Like you said, maybe she wanted to help with locating a cat or dog and she was eager to help or God knows what else this woman told her.

Same thing happened with Cedrika Provencher..there was no surveillance video but apparently someone asked her to help find a dog and she willingly went along to help. IIRC, the original reports were that the person was a woman. I hope they're checking if there are any connections!

[Maelstrom5]

I agree, Peter. I'm getting frustrated with the way this case is being handled. Just because Tori seems to be happy and going along with this woman means nothing. Like you said, maybe she wanted to help with locating a cat or dog and she was eager to help or God knows what else this woman told her.

Same thing happened with Cedrika Provencher..there was no surveillance video but apparently someone asked her to help find a dog and she willingly went along to help. IIRC, the original reports were that the person was a woman. I hope they're checking if there are any connections!



Hi

It was a guy according to this news report

“Cédrika was last seen about 8 p.m. on July 31, not far from her home. Witnesses have said she told them she was looking for a dog, and three other young girls have since come forward to say a man approached them to help look for a lost dog."

Cedrika Provencher 9, .. Missing 7/31/07.. Trios-Rivieres, Quebec
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=1567940&imageID=18731112

[Nen]

If the parents are divorced or seperated have they made sure the woman with Tori wasn't someone her dad had been seeing or had dated? I'm sure he would have said but stranger things have happened. Or maybe it was someone just passing through if it's a smaller town and no one seems to recognize her. Who knows, there are so many possibilities it's frustrating to say the least. I hope the police can get that one piece of info that helps them get her home safe.

[n/t]

If the parents are divorced or seperated have they made sure the woman with Tori wasn't someone her dad had been seeing or had dated? I'm sure he would have said but stranger things have happened. Or maybe it was someone just passing through if it's a smaller town and no one seems to recognize her. Who knows, there are so many possibilities it's frustrating to say the least. I hope the police can get that one piece of info that helps them get her home safe.

The link I posted upthread said the father has no idea who this woman is.

[n/t]

Hi

It was a guy according to this news report

“Cédrika was last seen about 8 p.m. on July 31, not far from her home. Witnesses have said she told them she was looking for a dog, and three other young girls have since come forward to say a man approached them to help look for a lost dog."

Cedrika Provencher 9, .. Missing 7/31/07.. Trios-Rivieres, Quebec
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=1567940&imageID=18731112


It was never clear, Peter. Initially they said it was a woman and then witnesses saw a man. There is speculation that 2 people may have been involved.
---

According to a witness who spoke to a regional newspaper in Trois-Rivières, two people may have been involved in Cédrika's disappearance.

The freckle-faced girl was last seen riding her bike on July 31 around 8 p.m.

Early in the search for the missing girl, a local woman, Madeleine Bournival, came forward to say she had seen Cédrika, who had told her she was helping a woman find a lost dog.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/17/cedrika-search.html


If they ever identify the woman in Tori's case, I hope they question her about Cedrika too. Just never know.

[Maelstrom5]

These stories are getting to be tiresome.

What is it about police stating that there is "NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTION".???????

Exactly what evidence do they need?

LE said the same thing in the Sandra Cantu case and until her body in the luggage was found they didn't have 'evidence' of an abduction either.

LE's training and procedures need to change across the board.

In America, they will swarm a house like bees if there's pot smoking going on but this???

A small child goes missing and there's no evidence of an abduction and because she was seen happily leaving the area then she's probably ok?

I want what ever these cops are on so I can live in The Land of Make Believe too.:cursing:

ITA Charlie,

There have been cases of women taking babies or very young toddlers to raise as their own but Tori is 8. She knows who her mom is. Unless someone in the family is not telling the truth, then if this woman still has her you can damn well bet she is not baking her chocolate chip cookies and reading her bedtime stories. She is far more likely to be forcing her to pose in a “Vicky” type series of pictures/videos.

Wash. detective tracks worldwide child porn
www.katu.com/news/42852427.html

[Maelstrom5]

It was never clear, Peter. Initially they said it was a woman and then witnesses saw a man. There is speculation that 2 people may have been involved.
---

According to a witness who spoke to a regional newspaper in Trois-Rivières, two people may have been involved in Cédrika's disappearance.

The freckle-faced girl was last seen riding her bike on July 31 around 8 p.m.

Early in the search for the missing girl, a local woman, Madeleine Bournival, came forward to say she had seen Cédrika, who had told her she was helping a woman find a lost dog.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/08/17/cedrika-search.html


If they ever identify the woman in Tori's case, I hope they question her about Cedrika too. Just never know.

TY n/t,

I had not seen that news report before. It does sound like it could be a team and they are the most dangerous type of predators.

From a old file I made:


Female Serial Killers:

The lone female serial killer is rarely motivated by sex. Instead she is more likely to be a Black Widow killing for revenge or profit. Or an Angel of Death, killing out of a desire to control. Nurse serial killers like Genene Ann Jones, fit the Angel of Death profile.

Most women who kill children who are not their own do so as part of a team. Karla Holmolka fits into that category but she is only one of a number of women who have murdered children as part of a team. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley; Britain's notorious Moors Murderers were more proficient then Karla and Paul, but it’s a toss up which couple was more sadistic. I think drugging your little sister so you and your boyfriend can rape her probably puts Karla in a league of her own.

When it comes to sexual sadism Fred and Rosemary West probably hold the record, they tortured and killed nine young girls. One was their 16 year old daughter.


It's sad but I probably need to update this file to include women who take children to use in child porn, then dispose of the child after they are done.

[lune3]

Doesn't it seem strange that this woman went so close to the school to snatch Tori. Doesn't make sense. Most kids go missing a ways away from the school. Or at least you would think.

Tori seems to feel safe with this person. No struggle.

I hope we hear something soon and good news about Tori.

You know, it's frightening. This happened at my daughter's primary school a while back. A woman tried to take one of the students. The policy at the school was that 3 or 4 teachers supervised the kids on the lawn as we mothers either drove up onto the drop off/pick up drive or walked to get our kid. Some of us parked on the street below. When our kids saw us, they'd tell the teacher ok there's my mom, and the teacher would let them go.

In this case a woman arrived early in this system, went up to the child and said she was there to take the child home. The kid told the teacher, ok I'm supposed to go home now, but the teacher refused to let her go. Asked the child if she recognized her. No. Woman had the gall to say she lived down the street from kid's home and mom had called her to please pick up her kid as mom was not going to be on time. Teacher checked the office and saw no notice about someone else scheduled to pick her up (as we were supposed to do). Teacher also knew that the particular mom usually drove up at the end of this pick up arrangement.

Teacher wouldn't let the child go and advised woman to have mom call the school. Woman left, probably parked on the street for quick getaway rather than in the line of cars.
As it turned out, the mom drove up as usual. She was told about this attempt, mom had never planned any such thing.

This woman was friendly, youngish, and well dressed. And this was in a "safe" upper middle class suburban area. I witnessed the whole thing. We were all terrified, not to mention what the mom felt. Police were immediately called but woman was long gone and no description of car.

This woman had actually stalked this girl, knew the mom;s pick up habits.
I pray and hope little Tori is found safe. This haunts me something awful.

[ttcRider]

another thing that bothers me with this woman is that she must have been certain no one else was picking her up that day...:confused:

[shadsma36]

I am unable to sleep, thinking about this poor little girl and her parents. The surveillance video is haunting because it demonstrates clearly, how any child can be lead away and never seen again. I am wondering if it is possible that Tori met this woman online on a kids' website and the woman posed as a child? I'm sure the LE would check all the possibilities, would they not? It is truly terrifying to contemplate another Karla Holmolka, but there are women predators out there. I guess statistically they are rare, (thank God) but every once in awhile, one will pop out of nowhere. So many questions - Is the woman local? Was she stalking the school ground? She chose a blonde haired, blue-eyed child and she has dark hair - Does that imply some pedophile network requested a certain 'type' of child? What a horrible thought... All that I can do is pray that Victoria is returned to her family as soon as possible. I am really hoping that God can spare a miracle for this one.

[Maelstrom5]

Hi n/t

As you know I am from the states and until yesterday I did not really know where Woodstock was, just the general location. I Googled the city map and found the location where Tori was last seen then used Flash Earth to get the satellite photo. When you zoom in you see several interesting and chilling things. According to the papers The video, was taken by a College Avenue Secondary School video camera, it shows Tori walking northbound along Fyfe Avenue near the intersection with Walter Street.

First off Walter Street is a cul-de-sac, it looks like the street was bisected when the school was built, and now has two dead end sections on either side of the school. Second going north, the direction Tori was seen walking, Fyfe Ave leads to a major city road; Cedar Street/ Norwich Ave. (Route 59). If you go south on this road you quickly come to a limited access highway; MacDonald-Cartier Freeway (Route 401). This means that within 15 minutes or less Tori could have been taken outside the city limits. In fact by the time her family called the police she could have been 100’s of miles away. Unfortunately by the time a general alert was given she could have been taken to an number of cities in Canada or even smuggled across the boarder at Niagara Falls, Queenston/ Lewiston, Windsor/ Detroit, or Sarnia/Port Huron.

Tori could be anywhere by now. :sad:

[Nen]

I know from crossing the border with my son and his friends that they are pretty strict with children crossing. Meaning they have to have their birth certificate or passport and they actually ask the child if they know the adults and where they are going. In other words it's fair to say that if this woman is a stranger then she's probably still in Canada, but it's true, she could have been far away before anyone knew.

[Maelstrom5]

Hi Peter,

I've never been to Woodstock. What interesting and chilling things did you see?

I agree she can be anywhere by now that's why I don't understand why an Amber Alert wasn't issued immediately. They obviously knew this woman was a stranger. Nobody in the family recognize her. They have an abductor but yet they didn't feel the need to issue the Amber Alert. I'm dumbfounded and hope LE didn't drop the ball here.

A couple of youtube videos.

This one shows the school area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtVkiC_qklk

This one is of the vigil.

http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=TnXSWnf8M6Y&feature=PlayList&p=066CA05FBB60E129&index=0&playnext=1

What I found that was so chilling was how quickly Tori could have been moved to a location far away. Of course there is no guaranty that has happened; she could be being held against her will close by in a locked room or basement. Unless the police get a tip they will never be able to get a warrant to search a private home.

One other sad thing; I saw in one news report that Tori’s older brother normally walked her home but that day he volunteered to help another student who is handicapped get home so she was alone.

[moonlite]

According to the police, at the time they had no reason to believe Tori was abducted or in danger so that's why no Amber Alert was issued but now that they know she was seen walking with a stranger, I don't understand why they're not issuing one. I don't understand it and it absolutely makes no sense to me.

I just found this link and apparently Tori's mom and dad were separated in December. Dad says the separation is an "ongoing struggle". I'm not quite sure what he means by that.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jEXxTR7D8ZGQ4qM7BozThDC349PQ

Greetings'
N/T

I just read the police are not ruling out all the family members? I'm wondering if this could be a family member involved with her disappearance? I mean looking at the tape' it does appear that she might know the abductor? I could be way off the mark here.
Hopefully she will be found soon and safe.

Moonlite

[ttcRider]

Greetings'
N/T

I just read the police are not ruling out all the family members? I'm wondering if this could be a family member involved with her disappearance? I mean looking at the tape' it does appear that she might know the abductor? I could be way off the mark here.
Hopefully she will be found soon and safe.

Moonlite

You would think one of the family members would recognize the woman in the video if it was a family member? :confused:

[BevAnn]

Rachel - I thought the same thing when I watched it!! She walks ahead of Tori at one point....I found myself feeling like if Tori WAS with this lady, she was very comfortable with her - as was the lady with Tori!

If she was taking Tori, she didn't have her hand, or her arm, and even went ahead of her, with out looking back to make sure Tori was following her - soooo was she actually taking her??

Maybe we should look elsewhere ...

[Maelstrom5]

Is it for sure they are together? At the very last moment in this video, the woman walks ahead of the child.

Besides the fact that they are both walking near each other - I'm not sure they're actually together. I could see the woman appear to say something to Victoria, maybe as innocent as "cool jacket, I love Hannah Montana too", and then that's it.

Was this Victoria's normal walking route home from school? If so, I'm not sure at all this woman has anything at all to do with her being missing.

I can't get the sound to work on the video, but you don't need it to watch anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl2OxcBqDhs

I would agree with you RachelRose accept for one thing, the police have been asking this woman to come forward for 4 days and she has not done so.

[moonlite]

You would think one of the family members would recognize the woman in the video if it was a family member? :confused:

Greetings"
My thinking, one of the family members knows and just might not being saying anything at this time? I just think Tori, does seem to know the person in the video? I think if it were a true stranger abduction a child might show resistance? I could be way off the mark here. I have two granddaughter's and I know if a stranger approaches them, they shy away from the person.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Is it for sure they are together? At the very last moment in this video, the woman walks ahead of the child.

Besides the fact that they are both walking near each other - I'm not sure they're actually together. I could see the woman appear to say something to Victoria, maybe as innocent as "cool jacket, I love Hannah Montana too", and then that's it.

Was this Victoria's normal walking route home from school? If so, I'm not sure at all this woman has anything at all to do with her being missing.

I can't get the sound to work on the video, but you don't need it to watch anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl2OxcBqDhs

I noticed that too, Rachel. Post #62. They're so focused on this woman but maybe she has nothing to do with it. I wish whoever it is would come forward and tell police that, if that's the case.

[n/t]

What I found that was so chilling was how quickly Tori could have been moved to a location far away. Of course there is no guaranty that has happened; she could be being held against her will close by in a locked room or basement. Unless the police get a tip they will never be able to get a warrant to search a private home.

One other sad thing; I saw in one news report that Tori’s older brother normally walked her home but that day he volunteered to help another student who is handicapped get home so she was alone.

So sad. I didn't know the brother usually walked with her.

Where could she be?

Police call off ground search for missing Ont. girl

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&date=true&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20090413%2fStafford_girl_0904 13

[lune3]

Greetings"
My thinking, one of the family members knows and just might not being saying anything at this time? I just think Tori, does seem to know the person in the video? I think if it were a true stranger abduction a child might show resistance? I could be way off the mark here. I have two granddaughter's and I know if a stranger approaches them, they shy away from the person.

Moonlite

Not necessarily. I posted upthread what happened at my daughter's school.
If the stranger has a feasible story, comes across as very friendly and kind, and is non threatening, a "friend" or "neighbour" of the mom, it's chilling what a child will believe on the spot.

I very much hope this indeed is a family abduction but fear it isn't.
I'm just sick for the parents.

[juliekan]

Peter, it sounds like from your description that in fact, she was on her normal route home.

I think they need to expand their investigation and look to other possibilities than that this woman had anything at all to do with her disappearance.

Was anyone at her home when she was expected to arrive? Who?

What about the story that she was on her way to her uncle's townhouse (as quoted in a story by a neighbor)? The article is no longer available.

Do we know if the street that the video shows Tori on is a "normal route" home, or a route to the uncle's? I know a video states she was "on her way to her Frances St. home."


from http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/617277

The day Tori went missing, Stafford says the two children were supposed to spend the night with him. "But Tori never returned from school." When questioned, per the video of AM Canada, he states he would have "probably seen Victoria sometime that weekend, depending on her schedule." (he also seemed somewhat confused by the question, so maybe that's why the different answer.)

So where was "home" that Tori was supposed to walk to after school? TIA.


(totally unrelated but weird thing to say about yourself: ) http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jEXxTR7D8ZGQ4qM7BozThDC349PQ
A veritable army of volunteers flooded a retail parking lot next to the police station Friday to help with the search efforts and dozens more passed out flyers. Stafford said he was deeply touched by the outpouring of support.

"It's outstanding," he said. "Even people I know that dislike me and stuff, they're out searching for my baby. That means so much."

[n/t]

julie, I watched the video when he said even people dislking him were helping him search. If you watch the video, you get a different impression. He broke down when he said it. Since he and Tori's mom are separated, he may have meant people from her side that didn't like him or whatever.....anyway, it was very touching. I believe the video is in one of the links.

I think he got confused with the weekends because under this kind of stress your days become so consumed with worry and the only focus would be to find your daughter. He may have gotten what I would consider a mental block and probably couldn't even remember what day it is. I know I'd be out of it if God forbid this happened to me.

I remember when my kids were younger and their dad and their dad had them every other weekend, I used to keep a calendar of when they would be with their dad. Many times we had to change weekends because of certain events or he would get to see them during the week if he would call and ask to see them, etc.

I think something horrible happened to this beautiful little girl. Police are being positive and optimistic and saying they're thankful that the ground searches turned up nothing because that would've meant finding a body but not knowing where she is still a nightmare for these parents.

The police have a strange way with words. I wouldn't use the word "thankfully". :unsure:


ETA: I agree that the initial story that she was going to her uncle's house is confsing and that's not been clarified. Was she or wasn't she?

[moonlite]

Not necessarily. I posted upthread what happened at my daughter's school.
If the stranger has a feasible story, comes across as very friendly and kind, and is non threatening, a "friend" or "neighbor" of the mom, it's chilling what a child will believe on the spot.

I very much hope this indeed is a family abduction but fear it isn't.
I'm just sick for the parents.

Greetings'
What happened at your daughter's school? I hope they do find Lil Tori soon. I just read the police are calling off the search? Dang' I hope, police are not going to forget about Tori. Do you know if they used search dogs? I never heard if they did?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Hi

It was a guy according to this news report

“Cédrika was last seen about 8 p.m. on July 31, not far from her home. Witnesses have said she told them she was looking for a dog, and three other young girls have since come forward to say a man approached them to help look for a lost dog."

Cedrika Provencher 9, .. Missing 7/31/07.. Trios-Rivieres, Quebec
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=1567940&imageID=18731112

Greetings'
Did they ever find this missing girl?
Moonlite

[juliekan]

ETA: I agree that the initial story that she was going to her uncle's house is confsing and that's not been clarified. Was she or wasn't she?

<snipped>

Thanks, n/t. Just to clarify, I don't think anything weird is going on with the father (like being involved in this somehow). I started that post (that ended up rambling) to try and find out WHERE she was going that day. :blink:

[n/t]

Greetings'
Did they ever find this missing girl?
Moonlite

No. She's still missing.

[n/t]

<snipped>

Thanks, n/t. Just to clarify, I don't think anything weird is going on with the father (like being involved in this somehow). I started that post (that ended up rambling) to try and find out WHERE she was going that day. :blink:

I understand. Even with so much of the media coverage some of the simple questions still remain unanswered.

[Maelstrom5]

That is a concern - but it's also interesting that no one else seems to know who she is. Maybe she looks nothing like the video?

Maybe she's not from the area and is unaware, and also then no one would recognize her either?

It possible she is not from the Woodstock area but unless she does not read the papers, watch TV, or listen to the radio then I find it hard to believe she has not hear about Tori. Tori's case has quickly become Canada's version of Caylee Anthony. From Vancouver BC to Halifax NS and every Canadian city in between she has been in the news, on TV and the radio. I have Tori's name on Google alert and I am being sent anywhere from 30 to 40 links a day.

I would agree; they should not develop tunnel vision because of that tape and I don't think they are. Const. Maitland said “Anyone you’re thinking of, we’re investigating,” so the police are going out of their way to let people know they have not ruled anyone, or any reason, out yet. But they are clearly puzzled as to why the woman has not contacted them; so am I.

I hate to bring it up, and so far nothing points in his direction, but Tori's parents separated last December and her mom Tara now has a new man in her life, described in one paper as “stepfather, James Gorris,” who she is living with. I don’t think they are married but maybe they are, if so that was very fast.

I don't think where Tori was going has been fully established, at least not in the press, hopefully LE knows. Early reports said an uncles house, but resent ones say her new home, which was just a few blocks from the school.

[n/t]

Too late to edit one of my posts upthread but just to clarify my kids share the same dad. I reread what I wrote up there and it sounds like they each have a dad. LOL

I remember when my kids were younger and their dad and their dad had them every other weekend,

[moonlite]

No. She's still missing.

Greetings"
How sad' what a sick person to take a child.
Moonlite

[n/t]

It possible she is not from the Woodstock area but unless she does not read the papers, watch TV, or listen to the radio then I find it hard to believe she has not hear about Tori. Tori's case has quickly become Canada's version of Caylee Anthony. From Vancouver BC to Halifax NS and every Canadian city in between she has been in the news, on TV and the radio. I have Tori's name on Google alert and I am being sent anywhere from 30 to 40 links a day.

I would agree; they should not develop tunnel vision because of that tape and I don't think they are. Const. Maitland said “Anyone you’re thinking of, we’re investigating,” so the police are going out of their way to let people know they have not ruled anyone, or any reason, out yet. But they are clearly puzzled as to why the woman has contacted them; so am I.

I hate to bring it up, and so far nothing points in his direction, but Tori's parents separated last December and her mom Tara now has a new man in her life, described in one paper as “stepfather, James Gorris,” who she is living with. I don’t think they are married but maybe they are, if so that was very fast.

I don't think where Tori was going has been fully established, at least not in the press, hopefully LE knows. Early reports said an uncles house, but resent ones say her new home, which was just a few blocks from the school.


Mom couldn't have remarried. They're only separated and not divorced yet. I wouldn't consider this new man in mom's life as Tori's stepfather. Maybe it's easier for them to print stepfather than mom's new boyfriend. lol

[juliekan]

Mom couldn't have remarried. They're only separated and not divorced yet. I wouldn't consider this new man in mom's life as Tori's stepfather. Maybe it's easier for them to print stepfather than mom's new boyfriend. lol

and another article referred to James Gorris as Tori's mom's "longtime partner." :huh:

[n/t]

and another article referred to James Gorris as Tori's mom's "longtime partner." :huh:

Maybe 4 months is a long time. Gotta love the media. LOL

[ttcRider]

Maybe 4 months is a long time. Gotta love the media. LOL

4 months would be a record for me! :laugh:...but i dont have a good track record. :crying:

all past bf's are still accounted for

[moonlite]

You know, it's frightening. This happened at my daughter's primary school a while back. A woman tried to take one of the students. The policy at the school was that 3 or 4 teachers supervised the kids on the lawn as we mothers either drove up onto the drop off/pick up drive or walked to get our kid. Some of us parked on the street below. When our kids saw us, they'd tell the teacher ok there's my mom, and the teacher would let them go.

In this case a woman arrived early in this system, went up to the child and said she was there to take the child home. The kid told the teacher, ok I'm supposed to go home now, but the teacher refused to let her go. Asked the child if she recognized her. No. Woman had the gall to say she lived down the street from kid's home and mom had called her to please pick up her kid as mom was not going to be on time. Teacher checked the office and saw no notice about someone else scheduled to pick her up (as we were supposed to do). Teacher also knew that the particular mom usually drove up at the end of this pick up arrangement.

Teacher wouldn't let the child go and advised woman to have mom call the school. Woman left, probably parked on the street for quick getaway rather than in the line of cars.
As it turned out, the mom drove up as usual. She was told about this attempt, mom had never planned any such thing.

This woman was friendly, youngish, and well dressed. And this was in a "safe" upper middle class suburban area. I witnessed the whole thing. We were all terrified, not to mention what the mom felt. Police were immediately called but woman was long gone and no description of car.

This woman had actually stalked this girl, knew the mom;s pick up habits.
I pray and hope little Tori is found safe. This haunts me something awful.



Greetings"
This woman was never caught? I applaud the teacher who would not let the child go with the stranger. Dang' this is a scary story' I'm glad the child was kept safe.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

That is a concern - but it's also interesting that no one else seems to know who she is. Maybe she looks nothing like the video?

Maybe she's not from the area and is unaware, and also then no one would recognize her either?

Greetings'
What if the lady who was seen in video with Tori, is wearing a wig?
Maybe the lady is a blonde and wanted a blonde child?

Moonlite

[Maelstrom5]

Father of missing Quebec girl says Victoria Stafford's family must not lose hope
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/13/9101966-cp.html

MONTREAL — “The father of a Quebec girl who has been missing for nearly two years says the best advice he can offer an Ontario family going through the same heart-rending situation is never to lose hope…”

[moonlite]

Father of missing Quebec girl says Victoria Stafford's family must not lose hope
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/13/9101966-cp.html

MONTREAL — “The father of a Quebec girl who has been missing for nearly two years says the best advice he can offer an Ontario family going through the same heart-rending situation is never to lose hope…”

Greetings'
My heart well and truly goes out to both families. Yes' it is a good thing not to loose hope. I agree with the father saying; there needs to be a better alert' other than the Amber Alert.

Moonlite

[n/t]

The white coat mystery in search for Tori Stafford

Police released an enhanced version of the video.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617984

[n/t]

Father of missing Quebec girl says Victoria Stafford's family must not lose hope
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/04/13/9101966-cp.html

MONTREAL — “The father of a Quebec girl who has been missing for nearly two years says the best advice he can offer an Ontario family going through the same heart-rending situation is never to lose hope…”

I remember Cedrika's dad being very critical of the police force when his daughter went missing. He said they wasted precious time trying to rule out family members rather than look for his daughter. No Amber Alert was issued...nothing. I remember him working endless hours trying to get the media to focus on his missing daughter and he travelled to many provinces to raise awareness.

I fear that's being done here too. I know I keep saying it but I don't understand why there was no Amber Alert issued in this case nor in Cedrika's case. Young girls that age don't run away. I don't believe the public will become desensitized to Amber Alerts. Not when a young child is missing. :sad:

[n/t]

But if you look at the two of them just as they walk out of the video it looks like the lady reaches her arm back to grab Tori's hand.

Does she? The first video released was grainy so it was hard to tell if she grabbed Tori's hand. At one point, it looked like she walked ahead of Tori. I couldn't tell if she grabbed her hand.

When I get to work, I'll watch the enhanced one that was just released. I have a better computer monitor at work than I do at home.

Anybody know how to view it full screen?

[Maelstrom5]

But if you look at the two of them just as they walk out of the video it looks like the lady reaches her arm back to grab Tori's hand.


I can't tell. She does step ahead of Tori just as they go out of view but before that they are walking side by side. What I am wondering is have the police been in contact with the two other people seen on the video. One was standing and Tori and the woman walk by that person. The other was walking behind them. It seems to me these two people may be able to tell the police more, especially the person standing.

[Maelstrom5]

I see it better in the first video.I showed my daughter and said watch the womens hand and what it is doing and she did and replied she reached back to grab Toris. I knew I saw that. Look again.
To view in full screan click the square bside the speaker icon.

I just pulled it up full screen. You are right at the last second the woman reaches back and Tori reaches forward to take her hand

[n/t]

Oh wow dedo. So we may get a break in the case soon then. Sounds like the aunt knows who this person is. :ohmy:

[Maelstrom5]

I remember Cedrika's dad being very critical of the police force when his daughter went missing. He said they wasted precious time trying to rule out family members rather than look for his daughter. No Amber Alert was issued...nothing. I remember him working endless hours trying to get the media to focus on his missing daughter and he travelled to many provinces to raise awareness.

I fear that's being done here too. I know I keep saying it but I don't understand why there was no Amber Alert issued in this case nor in Cedrika's case. Young girls that age don't run away. I don't believe the public will become desensitized to Amber Alerts. Not when a young child is missing. :sad:

Hi a news story from the UK:

Scottish policeman’s system for finding missing children
March 4 2009

A groundbreaking system designed by a Scottish officer that makes it possible to find missing adults and children is now set to be rolled out across the UK.

“The profiling system, which predicts the movements and behavior of missing people, allows police officers to benefit from the experience of thousands of others and save lives and stress for the families of those who have disappeared…”

Complete story at link:
www.thefirmmagazine.com/news/1368/News_roundup_4_March.html

This new system was used by the FBI last year in the search for 12 year old Brooke Bennett in Vermont. What I like about it is it uses past cases to help predict possible locations to search. It also allows for a series of red flag questions to be asked, which does something that I believe is very important, it takes the individual cop out of the equation.

Right now when a person, child or adult, goes missing it is up to the person who is handling the case to make an assessment. He/she does so based on their previous case histories and their knowledge of national statistics, and thats the problem.

99% of missing kids are recovered and the vast majority of missing adults turns up in a few days to a few weeks, so unless it is clearly evident that foul play was involved little is done in the first few days outside taking the missing person report and contacting their family and friends.

But time and again in cases that turn out bad you see the same red flags, red flags the police knew about but missed the importance of. We need a National protocol for missing people which includes a check list of questions to ask. Then we need to have a computer database that will take a look at the answers and tell the police; were best to start their search, and assess the likelihood that this case could be criminal. Only then will the local cop be able to tell how they need to approach the case. Right now its guesswork

Brooke Bennett 12.. Murder Victim; R.I.P. Brooke
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=951274&imageID=22613935

[n/t]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090413/Stafford_girl_090414/20090414?hub=TopStories

I guess I don't understand..... Not an abduction? Clearly someone who is NOT her parents has taken and not returned her. I don't care if she's a cousin, isn't that still an abduction? And they don't suspect foul play? WTF? An unidentified person has taken her, they have not come forward and no other trace of Tori has been found. IMO that REEKS of foul play.

Tori is 8 years old....it's time LE gets with the program, declares this an abduction with foul play suspected...they need to mobilize QUICKLY!!!

Many share your feelings. Read the comments in the article you just posted. Many are furious. This just isn't right. What more proof do they need? This child was obviously taken. They have a video!!! Doesn't make any sense.

[BevAnn]

ok, I just watched the new and improved video - but I made it full screen which just takes it back to large pixels. Anyway, there is a green minivan that drive right past them - facing them - as they are walking....wonder if people in the van have come forward with any info? They may not have even paid attention...but still, worth trying to find them and ask them.

Also, is it just me, or did ya'll see the back of the perps white jacket has a black line running diagonally across it??? It ALMOST looks like Tori has her arm around the perp - but I think it's too high up on the perp to be Tori's arm - ie, Tori isn't tall enough for her arm to be up that high.

Is the black just part of the coat? or did she have a purse/bag hung across her shoulder and body?

Sorry, just random things that grabbed my attention.

[ginky41]

ok, I just watched the new and improved video - but I made it full screen which just takes it back to large pixels. Anyway, there is a green minivan that drive right past them - facing them - as they are walking....wonder if people in the van have come forward with any info? They may not have even paid attention...but still, worth trying to find them and ask them.

Also, is it just me, or did ya'll see the back of the perps white jacket has a black line running diagonally across it??? It ALMOST looks like Tori has her arm around the perp - but I think it's too high up on the perp to be Tori's arm - ie, Tori isn't tall enough for her arm to be up that high.

Is the black just part of the coat? or did she have a purse/bag hung across her shoulder and body?

Sorry, just random things that grabbed my attention.

I noticed that "line" as well and also wondered if that was Tori's arm. But, I agree that it looks a little too high to be her arm. One of the articles I read described the woman as carrying a bag "slung" across her so I assume that's what they are seeing although I couldn't make out the bag part. Too weird. I also noticed (as someone earlier mentioned) that on the "enhanced" video that right as they are about to exit the frame it does appear that the woman extends her arm behind her as if to reach for Tori's hand.

Now I don't remember which article it was, one that is posted earlier in this thread, that Tori's mom said that Tori didn't appear 100% normal in this video. She said something about Tori's walk and Tori never walks...instead she bounces, skips and hops (or something along those lines). Surely all little kids do that but they also WALK normally as well. I thought that was an odd comment....but, maybe I'm making too much of the small things.

[moonlite]

Hi a news story from the UK:

Scottish policeman’s system for finding missing children
March 4 2009

A groundbreaking system designed by a Scottish officer that makes it possible to find missing adults and children is now set to be rolled out across the UK.

“The profiling system, which predicts the movements and behavior of missing people, allows police officers to benefit from the experience of thousands of others and save lives and stress for the families of those who have disappeared…”

Complete story at link:
www.thefirmmagazine.com/news/1368/News_roundup_4_March.html

This new system was used by the FBI last year in the search for 12 year old Brooke Bennett in Vermont. What I like about it is it uses past cases to help predict possible locations to search. It also allows for a series of red flag questions to be asked, which does something that I believe is very important, it takes the individual cop out of the equation.

Right now when a person, child or adult, goes missing it is up to the person who is handling the case to make an assessment. He/she does so based on their previous case histories and their knowledge of national statistics, and thats the problem.

99% of missing kids are recovered and the vast majority of missing adults turns up in a few days to a few weeks, so unless it is clearly evident that foul play was involved little is done in the first few days outside taking the missing person report and contacting their family and friends.

But time and again in cases that turn out bad you see the same red flags, red flags the police knew about but missed the importance of. We need a National protocol for missing people which includes a check list of questions to ask. Then we need to have a computer database that will take a look at the answers and tell the police; were best to start their search, and assess the likelihood that this case could be criminal. Only then will the local cop be able to tell how they need to approach the case. Right now its guesswork

Brooke Bennett 12.. Murder Victim; R.I.P. Brooke
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=143252708&albumID=951274&imageID=22613935

Greetings"

I must say' I do agree' something needs to be done. Because time is critical with a missing person case. Every tool known to man should be utilized too the fullest.

Moonlite

[shadsma36]

I am still praying for a miracle for Victoria and her family but I'm still confused as to why police are calling this a missing persons case, as opposed to an abduction? Are all abducted children carried away kicking and screaming? I don't believe so. Part of street proofing education involves telling children not to be 'lured' by strangers asking for directions or wanting help looking for a lost dog etc... I remember watching a documentary where they actually set up an abduction scene with actors and local children who were supposedly 'street proofed' kids. All of them fell for the various scenarios of the phony abductor. Afterward, when they were interviewed as to why they went with the person, the number one answer was that they 'seemed nice' or they needed help. It was very disturbing. So, being lured away is an abduction without the struggle. another person on here said it best. That Victoria didn't view this person as a threat and that's why she went with her.
I also listened to a talk show (AM680) and one of their experts said in the US, a call is sent in to the FBI within two hours of the child reported missing. And, if I heard correctly, it is regardless of whether they feel an abduction took place or not. I realize that what's done is done regarding the initial police procedure, (and I recognize how hard they are working to solve this case) but this could have implications for the way investigations are handled here in Canada regarding missing kids. There may have been a very real possibility of Victoria's recovery had an alert been issued sooner.

[moonlite]

Sounds like the family and police know who this woman is. Maybe that's why an Amber Alert was never issued.

I hope we get more information and the woman is located real soon.

Tori :rose:

Greetings'

Ok' this is just a thought' But could that lady in white coat be Tori's, mother? Can Tori's, mother account for her time during the afternoon that she went missing?

Moonlite

[n/t]

Greetings'

Ok' this is just a thought' But could that lady in white coat be Tori's, mother? Can Tori's, mother account for her time during the afternoon that she went missing?

Moonlite

Funny you should bring that up.....this morning in one of the links they had a picture of Tori's mom with Tori and noticed she had dark hair. When she did one of the interviews she was wearing a baseball cap and thought how odd that she's wearing a baseball cap during a tv interview but I didn't make anything out of it.

I don't know if this is Tori's mom but nothing surprises me anymore.

[ginky41]

I had the same thought. That woman looks like Tori's mother.

Interesting. I wonder how many people in Canada are watching that video and thinking the same thing?

I hate the thought of what that might imply....but you're right, nothing surprises me anymore either. I sure hope she's found safe and sound.

[juliekan]

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617984

I was surprised by this:

Police say the woman walking across a Woodstock schoolyard with Victoria is someone she knows, but the missing girl's mother says she has provided names of possible suspects "but nothing has come up."

Does this mean the mom just provided names of people who look like the lady in the video? I just wonder how you come up with people to suggest to the police that might have taken your child!


I hope Victoria's aunt is right! Hope we find Tori soon.

Sorry to quote myself, but it seems to fit in with the conversation going on now

[ginky41]

Sorry to quote myself, but it seems to fit in with the conversation going on now

I hate to speculate, but it actually fits with a quite few things that have been pointed out recently... :crying:

[freejason]

Does anyone have a link that shows a picture of her mother? I have only been able to find her aunt.

[Nen]

I'm sure the police looked at her parents straight away. It's unfortunate, bit in this day and age it has to be done. I watched the video for the first time this morning and my first thought was that maybe it was her mother. Not something you want to think, but these days, always a possibility.

[ginky41]

Here's a picture of her mother.

Waist length black hair.

Honestly, I don't see how she could appear more like the grainy image, but the image IS grainy.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6544323&op=7&o=all&view=all&subj=78966007726&aid=-1&oid=78966007726&id=570380654

WOW!!!! I saw the original tv interview with Tori's mom, her hair was pulled back. I saw one other photo and her hair was back in that as well. I didn't realize her mom had such LONG, dark hair. I'm surprised, really.

[Nen]

One of the links has a still frame from the video (with the play button on it) and it almost looks like the woman has her arm around Tori. It's just so frustrating that it could be someone she knows, but knowing how willing to trust and be comfortable around adults some kids are it could also be someone she had just met. I hope they've looked at footage from other days to see if this woman had been around before.

[moonlite]

I had the same thought. That woman looks like Tori's mother.

Interesting. I wonder how many people in Canada are watching that video and thinking the same thing?

Greetings"
I just think the police need to take a closer look at the mother. After seeing the picture posted it does make a person think. "IMO"

Moonlite

[Nen]

The police say because she went willingly it isn't an abduction

How absolutely ridiculous is this anyways?!! If a child is taken, even if it's by some trick...like a missing dog or something like that, that child has still been abducted. That child never intended to stay with them and not go home. It's sick. Time for the police to revise their rules/way of handling missing kids.

[ginky41]

How absolutely ridiculous is this anyways?!! If a child is taken, even if it's by some trick...like a missing dog or something like that, that child has still been abducted. That child never intended to stay with them and not go home. It's sick. Time for the police to revise their rules/way of handling missing kids.

I 100% agree with your post. It's frustrating, especially as a parent. How easily it could happen to any of us!

God Bless Tori. Come home soon.

[omsk99]

~snips

"Perhaps this explains why relatives of Victoria's family were seen coming and going from the police station here yesterday. However, perhaps it just means everybody is doing whatever they can to help police solve this case of a little girl missing since Wednesday. "

"But in watching this video several times it appears to show in the last second of it, the woman putting out her hand and Victoria accepting it -- looking as if they were veering right from that street to another street and not the direction of her home. "

"So far (at least for public consumption), there has been no positive identification of this woman and family have indicated they have no idea who she is. "

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2009/04/14/9105276-sun.html

I hope this video will produce better results than the one in the case of Jennifer Kesse (which so far has produced no results at all).

:rose:

[Breazy]

Everyone's a suspect in probe of missing Woodstock girl
http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/617486


I watched the video again of Tori walking with the unidentified woman. It's grainy so it's difficult to tell but is the woman holding Victoria's hand? At one point we even see this woman walking ahead of Victoria and Victoria is just following her. She doesn't look afraid or doesn't look back. She's continues to walk like she knows this woman. Very bizarre.

Video is at the link above.


Sorry, I'm late coming in to this case and this may have been already discussed but my thoughts. I watched the video full-screen and at the beginning, you can clearly see the woman's right arm swinging as she walked. Just about when they got to that concrete barrier looking thing, it looks like she turns towards Tori and grabs her hand. At the same time, Tori turns her head, looking back as they move from camera view. I got a weird vibe that at that very instant is when Tori knew she was in danger. I pray this sweet girl is safe wherever she is.

[n/t]

Sorry, I'm late coming in to this case and this may have been already discussed but my thoughts. I watched the video full-screen and at the beginning, you can clearly see the woman's right arm swinging as she walked. Just about when they got to that concrete barrier looking thing, it looks like she turns towards Tori and grabs her hand. At the same time, Tori turns her head, looking back as they move from camera view. I got a weird vibe that at that very instant is when Tori knew she was in danger. I pray this sweet girl is safe wherever she is.

You're right. Towards the end, it looks like Tori was walking slower and the woman grabbed her hand. I wonder if there was a car there waiting for them and that's when Tori realized she was in danger. :sad:

[n/t]

Going back to the possibility that this could be Tori's mom, someone would have recognized her, wouldn't they? Her clothing? That white coat? Surely, someone would've noticed her white coat.

I wonder who the aunt thinks it is. :sad:

[Nen]

Thanks for keeping us updated, dedo. I pray this little girl is found safe. I hate how sick this world has become.

[moonlite]

Well, I'm confused now. This article says Tori's parents have been separated for 6 years. In one of the interviews, her father said they were separated since December.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gIxZRWfBIjuy7LNijbPKr0t8dARw

Some sweet memories about Tori in the article :sad:

Greetings'
N/T

Yes' the family does have fond memories' hopefully they will have allot more with Tori. I do think it's a bit odd that the parents have been separated for that amount of time. Have they mentioned if the father had a girlfriend? Maybe the police know something we don't and that is why they are looking more close to home?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Questions, suspicion as search for Tori reveals dark side of small town
www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090415.wblatch15art2249/BNStory/National/home

Note from Peter: the banner is misleading; this story really just tells more about Woodstock and its citizens. What it reveals is no different then what happens in small towns everywhere when a child goes missing.

**Snipped**

WOODSTOCK, ONT. — It is one of those places where it seems no one could hide, where folks notice the unfamiliar car and the stranger in it and the streets are sufficiently un-traveled that rush hour is a lineup of a dozen cars at the light on Wilson Street narrowed to one lane by some construction.

As Constable Laurie-Anne Maitland, who in the past week has become nationally known as the spokeswoman for the Oxford Community Police Service, said yesterday with a rueful grin, "You can't be anonymous in a small community, in Woodstock. The person you cut off at the light will be your kid's fourth-grade teacher next year."….”


“…The pressure upon them all is enormous, and rising. Even Constable Maitland, naturally a sunny, full-glass sort of woman, has been cautioned not to appear as optimistic as she has been.

She knew that anyway. Her own little daughter, who at first told her to solve Tori's disappearance so she'd be back in time for Easter so her brother wouldn't eat all her chocolate, now just says, "Mummy! Concentrate!"

Greetings"
So the lady in the white jacket has not come forward?? Sounds like Woodstock, is about the size of city where I live. I know in my city, there was a little girl returned after being held for more than a few weeks by a perp. Also, it was a couple of the locals who recognized the little girl and called police.
I'm sure that community is sick at heart over Tori, missing.
So I'm not giving up hope...

Moonlite

[Breazy]

Thinking of Tori . . .

Like others, I went back and watched the video. I also beleve it's possible that it could be Tori's mother. I don't understand though, why no family members would say that she had a white coat. I'm also thinking it could be a woman friend of the father. He just appears so distraught, it's hard to speculate that he's involved. This case is truly baffling. I keep praying for Tori's safety and her path home will be revealed soon.

Anyone local have an update?

[moonlite]

Thinking of Tori . . .

Like others, I went back and watched the video. I also believe it's possible that it could be Tori's mother. I don't understand though, why no family members would say that she had a white coat. I'm also thinking it could be a woman friend of the father. He just appears so distraught, it's hard to speculate that he's involved. This case is truly baffling. I keep praying for Tori's safety and her path home will be revealed soon.

Anyone local have an update?

Greetings'
I think at this point everyone should be looked at as person of interest. I know if that were my child and I had nothing to hide. I be yelling give me a polygraph, anything. I think the more people they truly eliminate, the better.
I'm not sure if they have polygraphed anyone yet?
Moonlite

[Breazy]

Greetings'
I think at this point everyone should be looked at as person of interest. I know if that were my child and I had nothing to hide. I be yelling give me a polygraph, anything. I think the more people they truly eliminate, the better.
I'm not sure if they have polygraphed anyone yet?
Moonlite

IIRC, I read in an ealier link that both parents had been given polygraphs over Easter weekend but LE is not commenting on the results.

[Breazy]

Mother of missing Woodstock girl denies drug-debt rumours
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/15/9123006.html


So Mom's boyfriend has a lengthy record including drug possession and theft. Mom states it's in the past yet boyfriend had to appear in court today for charges of possession of stolen goods.

Poor Tori. My heart aches for her. There's no telling what the true story is . . .

[Nen]

I just can't shake this feeling that Tori's mom and/or stepdad know more then they've said. During an interview I watched on the news last night her Mom didn't seem upset at all. Of course I would never say guilty! because of lack of emotion....but still.

[moonlite]

Mother of missing Woodstock girl denies drug-debt rumours
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/04/15/9123006.html

Greetings'
N/T

This is disturbing news. Does anyone know if they gave the boyfriend a polygraph? I would not want anyone who does drugs around my children. I'm not trying to be judgmental here' it's seems people who do drugs are more adapt at criminal tendencies.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

To read an article or watch a video of what Mr. Stafford says about himself, given a little piece of what I just told you about what Woodstock can be like - it's not weird to hear or read Mr. Stafford say that about himself at all.[/QUOTE]

Greetings'
Signup'
Thank you for the insight into your community. Yes' lets keep Tori, our focus. I have a question for you' do you think someone in your community' has it out for one of the parents and took Tori?? Someone' who the police are not aware of? Maybe the police over looked something or never even considered the possibility? A person who could fly under the radar; so to speak?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

I just can't shake this feeling that Tori's mom and/or stepdad know more then they've said. During an interview I watched on the news last night her Mom didn't seem upset at all. Of course I would never say guilty! because of lack of emotion....but still.

Greetings'
Nen'
Do you have a link for the news broadcast you seen?

Moonlite

[Nen]

Greetings'
Nen'
Do you have a link for the news broadcast you seen?

MoonliteThis is one of the interviews. There are more, but I can't seem to find them.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html?releasePID=saK_lkHgsJeu_wi3qiAINXYHYty3 fevY

It's the first story.

[Nen]

I am wondering whos idea was it to have him help the handycapped child home that day? It is as if the person new Tori was going to be walking alone that day.
Yes, it is all a bit weird. If the brother did walk with her every single day and just not that day, then it's either really fishy or an unfortunate coincidence.

[Maelstrom5]

Is there a link to a story that states the brother walked a handicapped person home? This is the first I heard of it and just wondering where the source came from?

I don't remember which source it came from but it was reported in the press.

[Nen]

I posted this thought before, but I still wonder if the Police have looked through older footage from that tape to see if anything seemed out of place before she went missing. I still believe the Police know more then what they'll tell the public. Especially if anything is pointing towards the parents.

[streeter]

From the CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/15/woodstock-missing.html):

"Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, estimates he has watched the tape more than 400 times.

"From the first time that I watched that video, there has always been something about that stride, but I just can't place it," he said. "I can't at all.""

Bold mine.

Aunt said there's only one person they know that walks like that.

I do think it's mom. I think Aunt knows on the edge of her mind that it's mom...but it can't be, because she's the mom. Dad's mind is going there, but doesn't want to go there.

I've been thinking it for the past few days, but haven't wanted to go there myself. :crying:

Mom said that Tori is always bouncing, skipping, hopping. So is my son, who is Tori's age. But when he knows he's in trouble for something, or if the mood between us is different for whatever reason, he walks with no bouncing or skipping. Something is taking the "happy and carefree" out of her walk.

Mom went from being very secretive -- wanting friends and family to stop talking to media -- to talking a lot over the last day or so. She went from shooing media off her front lawn, to having them interview her in her backyard.

Finally, the cops cannot be as dense as they are appearing in the media. I think they're holding their cards close, but it's coming off as lack of concern. Maybe they have been thinking the unthinkable right from the beginning.

Tori's mother said something a couple of days ago that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up: "I know in my heart she's okay."

Sound familiar? :angry:

[moonlite]

Hi Moonlite, sorry for taking down my previous post. I was just merely trying to give an insight as to how and why Mr. Stafford's comment about himself shouldn't be looked at as weird and what not.

I can't answer your question(s) though because I don't know the parents. I'm totally the wrong person to be asking.

What I'm wondering though, is have the authorities questioned Tori's brother? I think if the authorities were to question Tori's brother, if they haven't already, he might be able to give more insight as to the status of what was or is going on between the adults. Children are much more perceptive and observant at times, more so than parents would like to believe. Tori's brother could've heard or seen something - someone had to have heard or seen something.

It's all too weird and now with stories of the stepfather's drug and theft charges surfacing? And I have to agree with Nen's post, that someone knows something more than what is being let on.

Greetings'
Signup'

I'm not sure if the police have questioned Tori's brother? Yes' you could be right' the brother is older and can tell the police if he did see something odd with his parents. I do believe there is way more to this story, than we know. I think the police need to be re-questioning the mother.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

This is one of the interviews. There are more, but I can't seem to find them.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html?releasePID=saK_lkHgsJeu_wi3qiAINXYHYty3 fevY

It's the first story.

Greetings'
Nen"

Thanks so much for the link. Good" in the news cast, they said the man wearing the black jacket has been identified and questioned. The man gave a better description of the lady in white jacket. I don't like the way the boyfriend hesitated when asked by the reporter about the white jacket. Did you notice that he appears kind of stoned acting?
Maybe that is his natural way of acting? I just thought that was odd?
Moonlite

[moonlite]

From the CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/15/woodstock-missing.html):

"Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, estimates he has watched the tape more than 400 times.

"From the first time that I watched that video, there has always been something about that stride, but I just can't place it," he said. "I can't at all.""

Bold mine.

Aunt said there's only one person they know that walks like that.

I do think it's mom. I think Aunt knows on the edge of her mind that it's mom...but it can't be, because she's the mom. Dad's mind is going there, but doesn't want to go there.

I've been thinking it for the past few days, but haven't wanted to go there myself. :crying:

Mom said that Tori is always bouncing, skipping, hopping. So is my son, who is Tori's age. But when he knows he's in trouble for something, or if the mood between us is different for whatever reason, he walks with no bouncing or skipping. Something is taking the "happy and carefree" out of her walk.

Mom went from being very secretive -- wanting friends and family to stop talking to media -- to talking a lot over the last day or so. She went from shooing media off her front lawn, to having them interview her in her backyard.

Finally, the cops cannot be as dense as they are appearing in the media. I think they're holding their cards close, but it's coming off as lack of concern. Maybe they have been thinking the unthinkable right from the beginning.

Tori's mother said something a couple of days ago that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up: "I know in my heart she's okay."

Sound familiar? :angry:

Greetings'
Streeter"
I agree with you. Yes' it's chilling to hear those words of (I know in my heart she is ok).

Moonlite

[juliekan]

Greetings'
Nen"

Thanks so much for the link. Good" in the news cast, they said the man wearing the black jacket has been identified and questioned. The man gave a better description of the lady in white jacket. I don't like the way the boyfriend hesitated when asked by the reporter about the white jacket. Did you notice that he appears kind of stoned acting?
Maybe that is his natural way of acting? I just thought that was odd?
Moonlite

I'm glad this place is small enough that they have been able to question the man in the black jacket.

The boyfriend looks sad, very sad to me. He did hesitate about the white jacket. Also looked consistently down and to the left.

But I have no idea how anyone would act in this situation(if this was me?)

[juliekan]

I wondered if they've gone through older footage to see if this woman typically makes that trek every day.

As if, for example, she's a high school student on her way home every day on that path. Although I still think they should consider it's Tori's mother.

Yes, review a lot of tape! Good idea.

[juliekan]

From the CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/04/15/woodstock-missing.html):


Mom said that Tori is always bouncing, skipping, hopping. So is my son, who is Tori's age. But when he knows he's in trouble for something, or if the mood between us is different for whatever reason, he walks with no bouncing or skipping. Something is taking the "happy and carefree" out of her walk.



<snipped>

Yes, I always thought of it more in the terms of someone told her "Mommy is...(sick, had an accident, needs me to bring you to...). Made me think of the times I was busy and my daughter would say,"slow down, mommy!" But Tori's little legs just kept moving.

[n/t]

Victoria featured on America's Most Wanted website

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=64826

[n/t]

The aunt saying she recognizes the walk and only knows one person who walks that way really bothers me or whatever her exact words were.

Does she really know who it could be or is she just trying to put blame on someone?

Watching the video, I don't see how the mystery woman's walk is so distinctive and convincing that it could be that one person the aunt has in mind unless this woman is someone she knows very well.

To me, she walks like any other woman fitting her age description.

I'm questioning why LE would ask the other ex wife to take a polygraph.

[n/t]

Was the ex wife still close to the family despite the divorce? Also, I don't recall reading anywhere if dad has a girlfriend. Was that ever mentioned?

I wonder if this explains that discrepancy early on. Dad says he and Tori's mom were separated since December but then in one of the articles the family says 6 years. Were they talking about this other woman, the other ex wife?

[n/t]

Where did you hear this. What other ex wife.

I posted the link today. Up thread but I'll post it again.

This is what it says:


McDonald, Goris and his mother Darlene Goris, Tori's father Rodney Stafford and another of Stafford's ex-wives were among the people who took lie detector tests over the Easter weekend. "We were happy to do it," said McDonald. "It means they can rule us out and look where they should."


http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/619277

[Nen]

My only thought is that maybe the police have their suspicions about the family and they want to keep it quiet so as to not make them suspicious.

[Maelstrom5]

I'm just bouncing off an idea here because ever since reading and finding out about the brother walking the handicapped child home, has it been reported if Daryn Stafford was just filling in for someone else that normally walked this handicapped child home? Did someone ask him to do this, or tell him to, or a school official assign him a project to walk the handicapped child home? How did this handicap child normally get home?

Also, if Tori was supposed to go to her uncle's house, I think I read she was supposed to go to the Trillium Street Apartments(?) that means she would've been walking South of Oliver Stephens. So if her brother walked in the opposite direction of Tori, because that's what it said in the newspaper (or did I read that wrong?), then he's walking North. And if Tori didn't end up going towards the Trillium Street Apartments, then the only other way she could've gone is North, in the same direction of her brother? I'm just bouncing around ideas because this story doesn't make sense to me, and it seems this whole story about the brother walking a handicap child home hasn't been looked into.

Very good question. If this trip with the handicapped schoolmate was a one time deal, lets say because someone else was sick, then it’s just a tragic irony. But if it was a weekly thing: each day someone different helped out and Daryn's day was Wednesday; then someone, family or stranger, could have known that she would be going home alone that day.

I can’t figure out why they have said two different locations, but we know from the video that Tori was heading north and was seen with the woman at a point about equal distance from her new and old house.

The press reports have been all over the place with the facts “Going to the Uncles-now going home“, “Parents separated for a few months-now separated for 6 years” It dives us nuts but unfortunately it typical, a failure to source check because of the reporters rush to file the story.

[Nen]

I agree, Maelstrom. A lot of the 'facts' are all over the place. I think the whole case has been mishandled from the start. From the police with the lack of AA to the reporters not knowing how long these people have been apart. Of course they could be getting different stories from different family members.

I also read in one article how Tori's mom said that she hoped she was being taken care of and things like that, but then she said she hoped they were letting her take a bath and stuff. That's the last thing I'd be thinking of with my child missing. I wouldn't want anyone touching them, let alone giving them baths.

Of course I can't say how a person should act or what they should say in this horrible situation, but it did stand out as strange.

[Heidi J.]

A bath! That would be the last thing on my mind too. I wouldnt even want to thing of my child having to bath near the person that took her.

ITA:confused: I must say.. there are a lot of puzzeling things in this case:huh:

[Kip]

A bath! That would be the last thing on my mind too. I wouldnt even want to thing of my child having to bath near the person that took her.

Add me to the list of people who find that statement hinky. I'd be worried that my child was dead, injured, frightened, and hungry. I don't think worry about their being clean would ever enter my mind.

[Pinetree]

hmmm....so mom says her live in boyfriends criminal past and present has no bearing on this case? I hope LE begs to differ! Maybe moms bf was molesting Tori. Tori was going to tell. Mom would lose her prince and probably her son. Tori was a problem that needed to be removed? I think it's mom in the video....IMO.

[Breazy]

News Conference Tomorrow in Stafford Case

Written by Adam J. Nyp

No news is coming out of Oxford Community Police Headquarters today in their investigation into missing 8-year-old Victoria Stafford.

Media crews instead were told there will be a news conference tomorrow morning at 10AM at the CAW Hall on Beale St.

Police Chief Ron Fraser at that time will address the case for the first time.

Stay tuned to Heart FM for details on that news conference tomorrow morning.

http://www.1047.ca/news.php


Maybe news of an arrest? Or new information? I pray for Tori as time continues on . . .

[n/t]

Maybe news of an arrest? Or new information? I pray for Tori as time continues on . . .

That's what I would've thought too but wouldn't they have informed the family? The article I posted said the family doesn't know anything about any new developments.

[Breazy]

That's what I would've thought too but wouldn't they have informed the family? The article I posted said the family doesn't know anything about any new developments.


Possibly they are in the process of getting an arrest warrant for someone in the family? By the time of the news conference, the arrest would have been made. Just speculation . . .

[Breazy]

Why would they wait till moring to make the arrest? Unless that will happen later tonight?

Just my speculation . . . but maybe the arrest hasn't been made yet, it's a family member or someone close to the family, but by the time of the news conference it will be a done deal?

[Nen]

I really hope it's true because that means Tori is alive. I wonder why they need to wait until tomorrow

[Breazy]

I am praying mightily that this is true and Tori is safe!! Anyone know what time US Central that the press conference will be?

[beespence]

Yikes, while I was looking for information on Tori, there is another missing girl in the area. 15 year old Alyssa Hartsink.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090409/090409_missinggirls/20090409/?hub=CP24Home


I haven't had time to read this thread completely but 15yr old Alyssa Hartsink was found safe yesterday and reunited with her mom.

[Maelstrom5]

I agree, Maelstrom. A lot of the 'facts' are all over the place. I think the whole case has been mishandled from the start. From the police with the lack of AA to the reporters not knowing how long these people have been apart. Of course they could be getting different stories from different family members.

I also read in one article how Tori's mom said that she hoped she was being taken care of and things like that, but then she said she hoped they were letting her take a bath and stuff. That's the last thing I'd be thinking of with my child missing. I wouldn't want anyone touching them, let alone giving them baths.

Of course I can't say how a person should act or what they should say in this horrible situation, but it did stand out as strange.

Nen,

I understand why you find that statement to be strange but if I was advising the Stafford family I would be telling them to keep saying things just like you mentioned, that "Tori; a child, needs a bath, Tori; a child, needs a blanket at night, Tori; a child, needs a hug"

I know what you said makes sense for a personal point of view but if in fact Tori was taken by a stranger then the only chance to find her alive is if she become a person, a young child, to her abductor- and not a thing.

In every stranger abduction case that I have read about where the abducted person remained alive for a extended period of time it was because that person, or their family through media reports, got through to the abductor. They managed to reach out to the stranger and turn the thing they took back into a living person. A person who was loved; a person with hopes and dreams.

Much has been written about the fact that stranger abductions are rare; but they do happen. Three cases from Ontario:


Her name was Cheryl Anne Hanson, she was seven. It was May 31, 1974 a Friday, and Cheryl, who lived in Aurora, Ontario was going to a cousin’s house for a sleepover. It was only a 10 minute walk, and it was a trip she had made many times before. Her mother was doing the dishes; she looked out the window and waved goodbye. Cheryl was carrying her white PJ’s with red flowers on them in a brown paper bag as she started down the road; she has never been seen again.

Her name was Nicole Louise Morin and she had turned eight on April fools day 1985. July 30 1985 was a very warm day in Toronto and Nicole had made plans to go swimming with a friend. She called her friend from the 20th floor of her apartment building and they agreed to meet in the lobby. She left her apartment and headed for the elevator. 15 minutes later the friend called Nicole’s mom asking for her, her mom told the friend she must be on her way down. Nicole never made it to the lobby; instead she vanished without a trace.

Her name was Nancy Liou and she was 15 when she left her Toronto, Ontario home on the afternoon of January 27 1999. Nancy was caught on her apartment building's security video; she lingered inside the rear door for 10 seconds before apparently seeing someone in the direction of the parking lot, at which point she ran out the door with a smile on her face. Her dad stayed up all night waiting for Nancy to return home. He reported her missing early the next morning then started a vigil in his living room, hoping for her to come through the front door. She never did.

[Breazy]

All I can tell you is it is 4:00 here. I live around Woodstock. So same time zone.

Thanks. That would make your time one hour ahead of mine.

[n/t]

I really hope it's true because that means Tori is alive. I wonder why they need to wait until tomorrow

Maybe they're closing in on the suspected kidnapper and don't want to get the word out yet?

[Breazy]

Good point but I would never mention a bath! Never! The thought of my child having to be bare at any point would never want those words to come out of my mouth.


I must agree!! The last thing I would want is for my 8 year old daughter to be naked in front of some perp!

[Breazy]

Okay I just had to post again. The woman in the video is carrying a bag almost like a yaga mat bag. Heres a link that says Tori's mother is a fitness instructer. The woman also had on sneakers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090416.wblatch16art2236/BNStory/National/home


Thank you for the link. I copied this from it which explains a bit more about the brother's habit concerning walking Tori home and how he came to be walking the other child (apparently now 2) home . . .

For one thing, Ms. McDonald said, only two people knew Tori would be walking home that day - "me and my mother," who for the whole week previous, because it was still cold, had been driving the children to school.

Daryn, Tori's brother, customarily escorted home two other youngsters, one of whom has Asperger's syndrome, a form of autism, from the subsidized townhouse co-op where the family lived until two weeks ago. The complex is just a few doors up from the school, and Tori would either go with Daryn or dawdle about at the school until he returned to fetch her.

[n/t]

Hopefully, we'll get more information tomorrow at the press conference.

I don't know about the woman in the video being the mom. If it is her, did she seriously think people wouldn't recognize her? That's why part of me says it can't be her. LE is not that stupid. Unless of course, they're playing the game and letting her believe that they're actually looking for a mystery woman.

This is getting crazy. I just want Victoria to be safe somewhere.:sad:

Dad has been quiet.:unsure:

[n/t]

It seems very unlikely, I agree, but I'm still a little puzzled why no one in the media or LE has even mentioned that there is a resemblance. Even just to comment, and note it as interesting.

Like that student who took off in New York after Christmas break, for some unknown reason her family didn't recognize her on the ATM video and everyone in the public did. I don't know.

I'm still puzzling about the "bath" comment - usually when grieving people say weird things I just blow it off as grieving - but that comment really sounds to me it came from someone who hasn't been through very very dark hours wondering what is happening to their child. Praying their child is okay. Praying they aren't suffering. Praying they aren't being abused right then. Wondering, picturing, worrying. The bath statement comes off as if it's from someone who really hasn't given any thought at all to the horrors that might be happening to the child.

Although Haleigh Cummings dear grandmother said I hope they're feeding her. Meanwhile, I was hoping she wasn't naked dead on the side of the road. Maybe you can only allow yourself to picture very small difficulties and you can't face the worse truths during a time like this.

I don't know either Rachel. I can't even imagine being in their shoes and I pray I never will.

I've heard many parents of missing children say they hope their missing loved one is being well taken care of or living with a nice family. Maybe their mind just doesn't want to go there. Another thing is we follow these horrific cases every single day and we know the evil that's out there. Many don't and perhaps that's a good thing because they're oblivious to reality.

Victoria needs to be found. :sad:

[moonlite]

I don't like how he doesn't have any eye contct when answering that question.

Also my daugher has a similar if not the same jacket that that woman has on. And I will say this even though it may be nothing. The jacket my daughter has is from the popular name brand store here "Garage". And I thought to myself whoever the lady is she is into her name brand clothing. Well then I was watching the news last night and Tori's boyfriend was wearing a Quiksilver sweater. May be nothing but I am feeling the mother has something to do with this.

I know this may be way off but makes me think.

Greetings'
DeDo'

Yes' it makes me think the very same thing about the mom. I think the police need to be questioning her more about Tori and without the boyfriend around.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Well, the local newspaper's website (www.woodstocksentinelreview.com) has notified the public that there is going to be an important news conference tomorrow at 10am, and apparently they will be revealing a major announcement - the press conference will be conducted by the Chief of Police, which usually means that it's going to be something major to report. Apparently Victoria's parents and family aren't even aware of what the topic of discussion is going to be about tomorrow, and they're being kept in the dark about it.... why would that be?! I think the police are playing their own game of hardball at this point.

Here's the clip: http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1527066

Yes I know about the announcement tomorrow morning. I think dedo mentioned an alleged siting of Victoria. Maybe that's what they'll be telling the public or they may squelch all rumours about the family so the focus will remain on Victoria. I guess we'll just have to wait. I think if it was anything of significance, they wouldn't have waited until tomorrow to have the press conference but that's just my opinion.
====

According to this link....police to address the media.

Woodstock police to address media Friday
680News staff Woodstock | Thursday, April 16th, 2009 6:45 pm Woodstock - No clue has being provided in regards to what will be said on Friday, but the police chief in Woodstock intends to meet with the media that morning to talk about missing 8-year-old Victoria "Tori" Stafford.

Oxford Community Police Chief Ron Fraser has scheduled a news conference for 10 a.m. Friday morning.

Tori went missing after leaving school in Woodstock on April 8.

Police are investigating the disappearance as a missing persons case and have not called it an abduction.

http://www.680news.com/news/headlines/more.jsp?content=20090416_184409_8888

[moonlite]

Well, the local newspaper's website (www.woodstocksentinelreview.com) has notified the public that there is going to be an important news conference tomorrow at 10am, and apparently they will be revealing a major announcement - the press conference will be conducted by the Chief of Police, which usually means that it's going to be something major to report. Apparently Victoria's parents and family aren't even aware of what the topic of discussion is going to be about tomorrow, and they're being kept in the dark about it.... why would that be?! I think the police are playing their own game of hardball at this point.

Here's the clip: http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1527066

Greetings'

I really hope it's some good news?? Maybe they found the woman in white jacket identity?? I'm not sure if the police inform the parents before a news cast? I don't know if the parents being in the dark is normal or not? I hope the police are playing hard ball!!!!

Moonlite

[moonlite]

The police inform the family if it's important information regarding the child's possible whereabouts, but reporters went to the parents house and asked them if they knew what the conference would be about and the family said they had no idea at all, and acted kind of aloof or "out of the know"

Greetings'
Scarett"

Maybe' tommorrow will be just an update? What is a siting in Victoria mean? That was mentioned and I'm confused? Does that mean some kind of sting or something?

Moonlite

[Maelstrom5]

First off thank you for adding her to your site. I did as well www.pplrmessed.blogspot.com .
However IMO The first think that comes to mind when young children go missing this long is a pedephile ring. Therefore for me if my child was missing I would not say anything about my child and a bath. Just MO

dedo,

It very well could be, but regardless, keeping your child alive must be the first and for most thought on your mind. Which means, making him/her a person. Honest, I kid you not, everything else comes second, and it has too.

Those who have followed my posts know what happened to my wife Charlene. They know she was systematically abused by her best friend’s dad from 10+ to just before she turned 13.

At 49 she still has flashbacks, cold sweats, nightmares, but they also know she turned what happened to her around. They know as an EMT she saved lives. They know as an elected official she promoted children, and helped build new schools and playgrounds.

One thing I have never written before; just before the man who could have ended my wife’s life died; she did a search.
(Charlene is writing a new book about a group of men from CT. Lets just say what these boys from Ct. did, helped change America, and it has never before been written. Give Charlene a day and she can find anything, LOL.)

She called him up, hoping for a sign of remorse, she did not get it.

Instead he said it was her fault, she was too alluring, too provocative to ignore. I never met my wife till she was 29, but I have pictures of her as a tween. She wore nothing that everybody else was not wearing in 1970. She was a standout softball player and a track star before he did what he did. She had solid A's before, just barely C's after. It took over 4 decades for the love of my live to confront the bogyman. When she did, well it was telling. He had stomach cancer and he wanted her to feel sorry for him. Charlene got the final statement; She said " So you are in pain, I hope you live for a very long time, because God has a special place for you, and cancer will be the least of your worries"

[BeetlebrowII]

Okay I just had to post again. The woman in the video is carrying a bag almost like a yaga mat bag. Heres a link that says Tori's mother is a fitness instructer. The woman also had on sneakers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090416.wblatch16art2236/BNStory/National/home

OMG......that is what it is!!!! I knew it looked familiar. Thank you Dedo.

Tori's mom has set off my hinky meter from the beginning and has kept it going. Boyfriend just added to bad feeling.

I wonder if this was supposed to be a kidnapping for ransom that somehow went wrong?. I'm just getting a strong feeling this is somehow connected to $.

Why would someone take Tori out in public with her face all over the press?? Maybe a crazy family member???

Hmmm....:mellow:

[moonlite]

an alleged 'siting' means that someone may have possibly seen or spotted Victoria somewhere...which would be a development in the investigation

Greetings'
Scarlett"

I hope it's good news tommorrow then. I didn't have my glasses on earlier, so thank you for answering my "siting" question.

Moonlite

[Pinetree]

Look at this video and look right after the aunt says the parents are to tired to talk. Then their is the uncle in a white jacket. with a black strip down the side as he turns. (the bag yoga bag?? mistaken)At 2:43 you get a good shot. Pause and look. Wouldnt this jacket look like a white puffy coat on a female?
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090416/AMW_Stafford_090416/20090416?hub=Toronto

Is he the uncle to whose house Tori was supposed to be walking to? He has on that jacket in every interview I've seen of him....it very well could be the jacket!

[Pinetree]

Just reading the 1st articles about this case. The man in black who Tori and the person walk by lives down the street from Tori. He hasn't spoken in public but was going to help with a sketch of the person with Tori. Was there ever a sketch? I haven't seen one. I wonder why?

[BeetlebrowII]

Look at this video and look right after the aunt says the parents are to tired to talk. Then their is the uncle in a white jacket. with a black strip down the side as he turns. (the bag yoga bag?? mistaken)At 2:43 you get a good shot. Pause and look. Wouldnt this jacket look like a white puffy coat on a female?
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090416/AMW_Stafford_090416/20090416?hub=Toronto

Good catch. So this is the mom's brother?. He does look like a big guy in the video although you do not see his entire body. It looks more like a windbreaker than a puffy ski type jacket, but someone could have been wearing something under it.

[n/t]

Good catch. So this is the mom's brother?. He does look like a big guy in the video although you do not see his entire body. It looks more like a windbreaker than a puffy ski type jacket, but someone could have been wearing something under it.

I agree. It doesn't look like the same jacket to me.

[n/t]

Just reading the 1st articles about this case. The man in black who Tori and the person walk by lives down the street from Tori. He hasn't spoken in public but was going to help with a sketch of the person with Tori. Was there ever a sketch? I haven't seen one. I wonder why?

Maybe that is what the announcement will be today. They may finally have a sketch of the kidnapper and/or more information enough to meet the Amber Alert criteria. Who knows. Maybe witnesses saw them get into a car and they may have a description of the car.

I don't believe the announcement will be about of an arrest. The family would've been notified, imo.

[n/t]

Do you have any links to those videos with the uncle in them wearing that Jacket? I have searched and can't find any. But I will say I e-mailed the woodstock police about it. As I saw an apollo jacket similar to that on google and the back has a design where it looks like it could very well be the jacket.

I hesitated just because I know they have alot of fasle leads and time is ticking. But I mean it wouldnt be musch for the police to look at it.

dedo, your the one who posted the link. It's up there. I viewed it this morning. :confused:

[Nen]

So was this whole major update just damage control because of the backlash from the lack of an AA?? Now the OPP is involved. And they finally said it's an abduction. Basically no new info.

[streeter]

OPP Detective-Inspector Bill Renton declares case a child abduction.

First part of presser is police chief who is nervous and seems way out of his league. Spent his time at the mike defending police actions and decisions.

Thank goodness OPP taking over.

[Nen]

I don't understand how this could have been classified as a major update. They say it's certainly their hope Tori is still alive.

[streeter]

I think the "major" update was classified as such by the press. Maitland's statement yesterday didn't classify the update as major or important.

[Nen]

The police chief sounded/acted pretty offended when the reporter asked why it's taken him 9 days to speak. I thought it was a fair question. I just hope with the OPP getting involved that she's found safe....and soon.

[streeter]

Agree, Nen. The guy reminds me of Chief Clancy Wiggins from the Simpsons. :sneaky:

Maybe it's a result of watching and listening to Shenehen in the Cantu case over the past few weeks, but these guys seem really inarticulate and ill-prepared in spite of their prepared statements. They're stumbling over their words and don't sound convinced OR convincing. How bizarre.

Is violent crime a problem in Woodstock? It sounds like the cops are just so far out of their league. At first I thought they were playing their cards close, but after this presser I think they're just not "with it."

[n/t]

I don't understand how this could have been classified as a major update. They say it's certainly their hope Tori is still alive.

I'm at work so missed the presser. I can't believe they had the community waiting in anticipation for this presser only to tell the public they have nothing new. Good grief.

Why didn't they just hold the presser yesterday about the OPP taking over? It was leaked information anyway.

So, no confirmed sitings? Is that correct?

Mystery woman still a mystery?

Nowhere closer to finding out what happened to Tori?

Anything else?

[n/t]

Forgot one more....case is now considered an abduction. Duh!

:cursing:

[Nen]

I'm at work so missed the presser. I can't believe they had the community waiting in anticipation for this presser only to tell the public they have nothing new. Good grief.

Why didn't they just hold the presser yesterday about the OPP taking over? It was leaked information anyway.

So, no confirmed sitings? Is that correct?

Mystery woman still a mystery?

Nowhere closer to finding out what happened to Tori?

Anything else?
You pretty much summed it up. Obviously there are things they won't divulge to the press or public but I really believe that if they had anything even slightly significant that they would have mentioned it. I really don't think they have any real suspects.

[n/t]

You pretty much summed it up. Obviously there are things they won't divulge to the press or public but I really believe that if they had anything even slightly significant that they would have mentioned it. I really don't think they have any real suspects.

No surprise to me. I said it yesterday that if it was a major development, they wouldn't have waited to announce it.

I'm just very frustrated that after 9 days, they're now saying it's an abduction when they should've done so early on and issued an Amber Alert immediately!!:thumbdown:

[streeter]

Scarlett made a good point yesterday -- that the announcement of a news conference to be held the next day with no other information released and then silence from the cops was probably a tactic to get the perp nervous and make a move, change behaviour, talk to someone, etc.

At least I hope there is a method to all this madness. :sad:

[Nen]

Well I hope it leads to something because the more time that passes means we'll be seeing less of it in the news. Woodstock is a small enough town that hopefully someone let's something slip and it leads to finding Tori.

[Pinetree]

Do you have any links to those videos with the uncle in them wearing that Jacket? I have searched and can't find any. But I will say I e-mailed the woodstock police about it. As I saw an apollo jacket similar to that on google and the back has a design where it looks like it could very well be the jacket.

I hesitated just because I know they have alot of fasle leads and time is ticking. But I mean it wouldnt be musch for the police to look at it.

ooops....just saw your post. I saw him in videos of the balloon release and the video at the house of the mom....I'll find the links...

[n/t]

WOODSTOCK - The case of missing eight-year-old schoolgirl Victoria (Tori) Stafford has now been declared an abduction by the OPP veteran investigator taking over the case.

As was reported in Friday's edition of The London Free Press, Det.-Insp Bill Renton made that announcement at a morning press during which Oxford police Chief Ron Fraser said Renton was taking over as “case manager” from a local officer.

Meanwhile, Rodney Stafford, Tori’s father, is expected to holding a press conference at noon today.

Tara McDonald, Tori’s mother, will hold her own press conference at her home at 1 p.m.



http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/2009/04/17/9147216.html

[kelloggirl]

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html?releasePID=saK_lkHgsJeu_wi3qiAINXYHYty3 fevY

This is him with the mom

Wow, in that video her mom seems completely fine, totally unconcerned and dry-eyed. I agree with those that the coat, the potential yoga mat, etc. and that the aunt says she knows someone who walks like that is highly suspicious. I also agree that her words "I know in my heart she's fine" are alarmingly reminiscent of Casey Anthony and her statements regarding the bath are weird. The boyfriend looks furtive and doesn't really look at the camera directly ever. He was especially evasive when asked about the coat.

Someone mentioned that Tara wouldn't have been so bold as to think she wouldn't be able to be identified on the surveillance video. My question is, did she even know about the surveillance video? How would she?

[Nen]

I'd assume that the person responsible didn't know there was a camera there. That's why if it is someone that knows Tori this will hopefully make them slip up and not cover their tracks as well.

[Breazy]

I'm so disappointed to hear that no new news came from the LE presser this morning. I also find it odd that Mom and Dad are holding separate pressers. Any news yet from those?

Still praying for Tori . . .

[moonlite]

I'm so disappointed to hear that no new news came from the LE presser this morning. I also find it odd that Mom and Dad are holding separate pressers. Any news yet from those?

Still praying for Tori . . .

Greetings'

I agree' this is a disappointment of sorts. But it's good that the OOP, is involved. Maybe, with this new guy helping, Tori, can be found.

Moonlite

[BevAnn]

The video link pinetree supplied (post #295) - wtH is wrong with the "stepdad"????!?!?!

He NEVER looks at the camera, he never looks at the reporter - he looks down and to the left the WHOLE time!!! I mean, he doesn't even TRY to glance up. :ohmy: oh man....that says a LOT to me....I may be completely wrong, but I think he most def knows something.

What in the world is up here??? :bored:

[lune3]

The video link pinetree supplied (post #295) - wtH is wrong with the "stepdad"????!?!?!

He NEVER looks at the camera, he never looks at the reporter - he looks down and to the left the WHOLE time!!! I mean, he doesn't even TRY to glance up. :ohmy: oh man....that says a LOT to me....I may be completely wrong, but I think he most def knows something.

What in the world is up here??? :bored:

You know, I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion because my suspicions on what could have happened have changed towards having the same questions as a lot of you guys. But I hate voicing negative opinions about family members during such a tragedy if such feelings could be totally off.

But really, I have to say...like many of you here feel, that something is really not right in their demeanor. I've watched the videos and I just don't see any fear, grief, panic, or anything out of the norm of "usual" demeanor.

Now this boyfriend on that video. I always play the devil's advocate...maybe he's uncomfortable in front of cameras and a bunch of mics (as I would be), etc etc.
But the question about "do you know anyone with a white jacket?? Hesitation (ok ...he's thinking,.... but you'd think he racked his mind before this interview and wouldn't have to hesitate). Too many "no I don't"s, and here's a guy who HAS a white jacket HIMSELFthat he evidently wears a lot.
Seriously, if somebody asked you if you knew anyone who had a white or purple or whatever jacket, wouldn't you say..well I do ..but I don't know anyone else who does.

Between his and Tara's behaviour, something simply doesn't sit right at all.

ETA, Oh, and that jacket has the same upturned collar, and length. Just a detail I noticed.

[Kip]

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html?releasePID=saK_lkHgsJeu_wi3qiAINXYHYty3 fevY

This is him with the mom

The mom sure looks a lot like the woman in the video.

Tori is seen in the video shortly after 3:30 and she was re ported missing about 6 pm. I've been reading back through some of the stories and don't see anything about what happened between 4 and 6 pm. What time did the son/brother get home? Who was home at that time? At 4 o'clock when Tori wasn't home, did anyone go looking for her? (Apparently no one retraced her steps and was captured on the video or I'm sure the press would have mentioned that.) Did anyone call the school? Did anyone call or visit neighbors and friends looking for her? The mother of one of Tori's friends is quoted in an article about the video, but there's no mention of having received a frantic phone call asking if she had seen Tori. (Of course, she may have said it and the press chose not to report it, but that's the kind of emotional quote that usually gets included.)

[moonlite]

The video link pinetree supplied (post #295) - wtH is wrong with the "step dad"????!?!?!

He NEVER looks at the camera, he never looks at the reporter - he looks down and to the left the WHOLE time!!! I mean, he doesn't even TRY to glance up. :ohmy: oh man....that says a LOT to me....I may be completely wrong, but I think he most def knows something.

What in the world is up here??? :bored:

Greetings'
BevAnn'

I thought the same thing when a reporter asked the boyfriend about the white coat. The boyfriend, did not make eye contact at all and was looking every where but the reporter and camera. I thought he appeared stoned. IMO' I could be wrong' But I do look at body language.

Moonlite

[Orleaner12]

Does this not smell of a carbon copy of this case last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Matthews

[Kip]

Does this not smell of a carbon copy of this case last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Matthews

It certainly could be. For Tori's sake, I hope that's what's happened because it means she's safe somewhere.

And, welcome to the board, Orleaner 12.

[Nen]

Does this not smell of a carbon copy of this case last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_MatthewsWhat some sick people will do for money. Could you even imagine if this was the case?!

[n/t]

So far I have not seen anything to indicate that the parents or any family member is involved. We can comment on their demeanour and their body language but let's not forget that a little girl is still missing. If the OPP has now taken over, I would have to believe wholeheartedly that they are taking this case very seriously and sadly, it may be too late for Victoria. I've been very critical of how this case was handled from the beginning and I still believe that's the case. There is NO TIME to second guess when a child is missing. This was an abduction. No child walks willingly with a stranger. Period.

I'll have to quote the former police investigator, Bruce Smollet

"You can always cancel the Amber Alert but you can never go back in time and start over again.


He's 100% correct.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_33821.aspx


Prayers Victoria is found safe soon :rose:

[streeter]

An interesting angle in this Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.wtori_blatch0417/BNStory/National/home) article posted April 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM EDT. It seems very suggestive, hanging on the edge of saying what some of us are thinking, without actually saying it. I've pasted some tidbits.

"Police go in one direction, missing girl's mother feels otherwise

Police have a “pretty substantial direction” in identifying the mysterious woman in the white jacket who was last seen walking with eight-year-old Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

...OPP Detective-Inspector Bill Renton was asked at a joint OPP-Oxford Community Police news conference yesterday what he made of the fact that no one apparently has been able to identify the woman.

After a noticeable pause, Det.-Insp. Renton replied, “We're actively looking at many facets of that. To say anything more would be rather irresponsible. We have pretty substantial direction in that regard. … We have some leads and we're looking at some leads."

...Several hours later, when Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, came to meet the media and was informed that police had suggested they were closer to identifying the woman, she said, “I hope they do, I really hope that they do.”

Wearing a shiny black-and-white print sundress and what appeared to be freshly painted purple toenails showing in strappy sandals, her long brown hair slicked back in a ponytail, Ms. McDonald appeared mollified that Tori's disappearance is now being called an abduction – “It's about time,” she said, adding that “it's been an abduction since the day she went missing” – but appeared to part company with investigators who remain concentrated on Woodstock and environs.

"Go as far as you possibly can,” she urged them, “because if she was in Woodstock somebody would have seen her, somebody would have given more information, more tips – something.

“I don't feel somebody would be stupid enough to keep Victoria in Woodstock, you know. … I just want it to go further. I want them to start looking outside the Woodstock area because nobody in Woodstock, like I said, would be stupid enough to keep her in Woodstock because she would be spotted in a New York minute and it would be over for whoever's done this.”

She seemed pleased at the international attention the case is garnering, and said, “I'm more confident the further it goes. The further that I hear it's reaching – Europe, the States – the more confident I feel that someone's going to see her somewhere.”

Tori, she added, “is a very beautiful … she has very distinguished features – her bright blonde hair, her pale-coloured skin, her humungous blue eyes. I've never seen another child that looks like her.

“So if people in Europe or the United States are made aware of this, they're going to be keeping their eye out, they're going to be keeping this fresh in their mind so they can find Victoria.”

Yet Det.-Insp. Renton was blunt that “the focus of the evidence is still here in the city of Woodstock,” though he acknowledged “there's many possibilities and you can't rule that out.”

...“I like to think it was a stranger,” [MacDonald] said, “because I would not like to think that any friend or acquaintance or anybody that I know would do something like this.”

But police remain convinced the little girl went with the mystery woman without a struggle. “If you look at the video,” Det.-Insp. Renton said, “it certainly appears that Victoria was walking willingly.”

The police are joined in that view by Tori's father, Rodney Stafford, and by the members of his family.

The little girl's youngest aunt, 29-year-old Rebecca Stafford, who flew in last week from Sherwood Park, Alta., to be with her brother, reiterated yesterday that “we all believe that she looked comfortable and content. So we do believe that it is someone that she knows.”

She joined Det.-Insp. Renton and Oxford Police Chief Ron Fraser in deeming the switch from “missing persons” to “abduction” not terribly significant.

Asked about the mystery woman on the videotape, Ms. Stafford answered, with evident care, “We are certain we can't identify her based on that footage."

While any scenario but having Tori home safe again is alarming, Ms. Stafford said she hopes that whoever has the little girl is someone who knows her, as opposed to a stranger.

“My belief is if it's somebody that knows her, there's less of a chance that she would be hurt by that person,” she said, maintaining her composure even though what she clearly meant was that it is inconceivable to her that anyone who knows Tori Stafford doesn't love her."

There is so much in here to comment on.

1. Mom would rather the child be with a stranger instead of someone who knows and likes Tori, in spite of the obvious danger of the former. Apparently, the thought of Tori being with someone who doesn't know or care about her is better than the thought of Tara feeling betrayed by a friend. :blink:

2. Mom is pretty much saying: Go away from here. Look elsewhere. Don't look here. Go far, far away. Like Europe. Just not here. She also sees the classification of "abduction" as far more than just semantics because it suggests "stranger." IMO.

3. Mom is told that cops are closer to identifying woman in video. Her reaction is weird. "I hope they do, I really hope they do." There's something weird about that statement. I can't put my finger on it. I think it's because if I were hearing that for the first time, I'd be shutting down the news conference and running in to call the cops to find out who they think it is and how close they are. Also, the fact that she says it twice, and adds the qualifier "really" the second time, seems like she's trying too hard to convince us.

4. I'm now convinced that the Stafford's think it's mom on the video. I think the cops think so, too.

5. I can't believe we're now getting a fashion blow-by-blow on Tara in news articles. :blink:

[Kip]

[snipped]...
There is so much in here to comment on.

1. Mom would rather the child be with a stranger instead of someone who knows and likes Tori, in spite of the obvious danger of the former. Apparently, the thought of Tori being with someone who doesn't know or care about her is better than the thought of Tara feeling betrayed by a friend. :blink:

2. Mom is pretty much saying: Go away from here. Look elsewhere. Don't look here. Go far, far away. Like Europe. Just not here. She also sees the classification of "abduction" as far more than just semantics because it suggests "stranger." IMO.

3. Mom is told that cops are closer to identifying woman in video. Her reaction is weird. "I hope they do, I really hope they do." There's something weird about that statement. I can't put my finger on it. I think it's because if I were hearing that for the first time, I'd be shutting down the news conference and running in to call the cops to find out who they think it is and how close they are. Also, the fact that she says it twice, and adds the qualifier "really" the second time, seems like she's trying too hard to convince us.

4. I'm now convinced that the Stafford's think it's mom on the video. I think the cops think so, too.

5. I can't believe we're now getting a fashion blow-by-blow on Tara in news articles. :blink:

Good points.

I think the reporter's comment about Tara's "freshly painted toenails," sundress, strappy sandals was meant to imply "here's a woman whose child is missing, who's not beside herself with worry and not able to function; instead she's putting on cute outfits and painting her toenails.

Re Tara's "I hope they do, I really hope they do." I agree with you that the repetition is to convince us. When I read that, it seemed "off" to me, too -- in that situation, I might have said "Thank goodness" and questioned the reporter to see if he/she had more information. And called the lead investigator as soon as the press conference ended.

[Nen]

Some reporters like to stir things up, so I think they put that about her nail polish as maybe a way of saying she can't be all that upset if she's sitting and getting her nails done and stuff. Or maybe that's just what I was thinking lol.

I can only say how I'd act if God forbid I was in that situation and I'd probably be in a fetal position and inconsolable. But every person handles things different.

The only thing I hope is that no matter who people focus on or think is involved is that it keeps Tori on peoples minds and in the news so she can be found safe.

Edited to add-I think we basically put the same thing about her nails and all that, Kip. Sorry I must have been writing mine when you put yours.

[Maelstrom5]

An interesting angle in this Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090417.wtori_blatch0417/BNStory/National/home) article posted April 17, 2009 at 9:56 PM EDT. It seems very suggestive, hanging on the edge of saying what some of us are thinking, without actually saying it. I've pasted some tidbits.



There is so much in here to comment on.

1. Mom would rather the child be with a stranger instead of someone who knows and likes Tori, in spite of the obvious danger of the former. Apparently, the thought of Tori being with someone who doesn't know or care about her is better than the thought of Tara feeling betrayed by a friend. :blink:

2. Mom is pretty much saying: Go away from here. Look elsewhere. Don't look here. Go far, far away. Like Europe. Just not here. She also sees the classification of "abduction" as far more than just semantics because it suggests "stranger." IMO.

3. Mom is told that cops are closer to identifying woman in video. Her reaction is weird. "I hope they do, I really hope they do." There's something weird about that statement. I can't put my finger on it. I think it's because if I were hearing that for the first time, I'd be shutting down the news conference and running in to call the cops to find out who they think it is and how close they are. Also, the fact that she says it twice, and adds the qualifier "really" the second time, seems like she's trying too hard to convince us.

4. I'm now convinced that the Stafford's think it's mom on the video. I think the cops think so, too.

5. I can't believe we're now getting a fashion blow-by-blow on Tara in news articles. :blink:

Excellent points streeter.

Here is one statement that stands out for me;

"Asked about the mystery woman on the videotape, Ms. Stafford answered, with evident care, “We are certain we can't identify her based on that footage."

Tori’s Aunt is not saying she does not have an idea who the woman could be; just that she can't positively say who she thinks it is based on the surveillance video.

I also agree with you on Tori's mom, why would she want the person who has her child to be a stranger? We all know what that could mean; yet that scenario, which is the worst one, is the one she is fixated on.

I also find it strange that she tells people to look everywhere but Woodstock. Would it not be better to emphasize that Tori could be anywhere, close by or far away, and ask everyone to be on the lookout for her?

As I pointed out a few pages ago Tori could have been quickly taken for Woodstock but she also could be locked in a room or basement close by.

[ttcRider]

Wow.... Okay, I'm going to ask a question here for those who have children.

If you found out your child was being fondled by your best friend in your own home, what's the first thing that would pop into your head? Because after reading how the whole stranger vs. friend thing is being dissected, that question is what I asked myself, if it was a friend doing that to my child. My first thought was "I can't believe I allowed that person into my home, and my life only to have that person do that to my child."

Again, this is what I think Tara means that it would be easier for her to accept if it was a stranger compared to a friend because no one wants to believe that a family friend, or immediate/extended family member would be able to or could do that to their own blood relation or a good friend.

Does that make sense yet?

Hey signup!
I dont have children but I see where you are coming from. I think the guilt of knowing that you let someone into your home and around your children would be so much harder to deal with than to think it is a complete stranger. Having said that, I am sure either case would harbor guilt that you could have done something to prevent it. Just a horrible situation but your comment does make sense to me. :sad:

[streeter]

Wow.... Okay, I'm going to ask a question here for those who have children.

If you found out your child was being fondled by your best friend in your own home, what's the first thing that would pop into your head? Because after reading how the whole stranger vs. friend thing is being dissected, that question is what I asked myself, if it was a friend doing that to my child. My first thought was "I can't believe I allowed that person into my home, and my life only to have that person do that to my child."

Again, this is what I think Tara means that it would be easier for her to accept if it was a stranger compared to a friend because no one wants to believe that a family friend, or immediate/extended family member would be able to or could do that to their own blood relation or a good friend.

Does that make sense yet?

Signup, I totally get where you are coming from. The guilt that I would feel as a parent for putting my trust in someone and then to have them do that...I would never forgive myself. Or them. If it were a stranger that was doing it, obviously trust in a friend/relative would not be an issue. I would only have to worry about healing my child without the distraction of such a huge burden of guilt and anger.

But in this particular case, the outcome is not yet known. Nobody knows where she is or who she is with. There are at this point two final outcomes: she will be found alive, or not. I wouldn't be picking, let alone voicing, a preference for the type of person who did this. I would be thinking, whoever you are, bring her back.

Yes, they need to know if there is evidence of someone close to her, and that could lead to a break in the case. But I have issues with the statement that was made about the preference. I'd want her back, and if I had to feel guilty about exposing her to someone, then so be it. Just get her back.

The "I'd like to think it was a stranger..." is really, really disturbing to me.

[ttcRider]

Thanks ttcrider, that's exactly what I was trying to get at.

One other thing - Police and Press will NEVER EVER come right out and give a full head on accusation with insufficient evidence. I'm not even picking up that they are hinting that it's Tara. If they did, Tara could turn around and sue their arses off for defamation of character.

From todays presser I get the feeling they have someone in mind.. Or maybe they put that out there to make the person nervous in hopes that they screw up somehow?? Very weird case.

[streeter]

Thanks ttcrider, that's exactly what I was trying to get at.

One other thing - Police and Press will NEVER EVER come right out and give a full head on accusation with insufficient evidence. I'm not even picking up that they are hinting that it's Tara. If they did, Tara could turn around and sue their arses off for defamation of character.

Of course. Which is why they are being vague. The story is angled a certain way, but it's subtle enough to capture the essence of the reporter's point of view without being slanderous.

Notice the careful wording of the aunt's statement regarding the video. It sounds as if she has been asked if she could factually state that it is so-and-so in the video, and the answer is no. But the innuendo in her statement is that she knows who that is with Tori.

[streeter]

I believe the police think it is a family member. I mean the family say they took polygraphs but the police won't comment. Hmmmm

Mom said in one interview that she passed, but when pressed, she said that she assumed she passed, because if she didn't, they wouldn't have let her leave.

(Which I don't think is true, but anyway...the point is, it sounds like even they don't know if they passed.)

[ttcRider]

Mom said in one interview that she passed, but when pressed, she said that she assumed she passed, because if she didn't, they wouldn't have let her leave.

(Which I don't think is true, but anyway...the point is, it sounds like even they don't know if they passed.)

I think the only people who are told of their results are on the Maury Show! :scared:
The dad said that when he took the test he had to explain to them that whenever they said Victoria's name it would bring him to tears and thats why it could possibly affect the test results.

[ttcRider]

Alright, now I get where you're coming from in regards to preference, and see I think the worst mistake Tori's parents made, was deciding to court the press on their own.

Looking at how all this has gone down, if it was me, I would not have talked so willingly to the press - look what's going on, on these message boards? The only information I would've given the media would be in regards to events such as "Yes there will be a vigil." "Yes we're having a car wash." with time and date of event. I certainly would not have invited the media into my home either. I honestly would've hired a lawyer just to handle media relations so that all communication would result in being effective and accurate. I'm actually surprised that someone in a Personal Relations field didn't end up going to both parents offering to speak for them or advise them.

I think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. People will analyze every move you make and don't make. Look at how people are talking about her ear rings and designer clothes today... If she wore an old pair of sweat pants people would question how well she provided for her kids.. KWIM??

[Pinetree]

Both mom and her bf have said before that LE needs to stop looking in Woodstock......insisting on it, in fact......wonder why?

[Nen]

My gut is telling me that this isn't a stranger abduction. Not saying it was her mom, dad, or anyone in Tori's immediate family but someone that knows someone in the family. Maybe an ex friend of mom's. Maybe someone that knows dad and dislikes mom. Kind of like a friend of a friend type thing.

I really think this is someone who's been in contact with Tori and her family before.

[Maelstrom5]

I just realized something when I was reading this article. Rebecca Stafford goes to University in Edmonton, ALBERTA. How in the world would she recognize the mystery woman by her walk? I believe the word she used was "stride". She doesn't even live in Woodstock. :confused:

===

"Given the way that Victoria was in the video, we all believe that she looked comfortable and content," said Rodney's younger sister Rebecca Stafford, who bolted from university in Edmonton in the middle of exams on Tuesday to be with her family. "So we do believe that it is someone that she knows."


http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/620553

What that seems to imply n/t is that Rebecca Stafford believes that the person in the video is someone who is or has been a significant part of the Stafford family. It could be Tara, another female family member, or as you pointed out a former girlfriend of her dads.

Maybe the difference in the way the two sides are viewing Tori's disappearance is because Mr. Stafford side realizes how bad a stranger abduction will probably turn out, and Tara won’t let her mind go there.

[Pinetree]

Tara is starting to sound like KC Anthony......imo

[ttcRider]

The only reason why I brought up clothing/appearance what not, is because from what I read, these are people that are supposed to be living in subsidized housing. In addition to this, Woodstock is very much an automotive factory industry and there are a lot of people laid off right now due to the state of economy and can't afford a whole lot of nice things.

Plus, I think there are people out there who have made donations towards a search fund for Tori, or something like that. And I'm sitting here asking myself, "Where's that money going?" Boyfriend has drug charges and what not, and that donation money better not be going towards paying his fines when it's supposed to be going towards Tori's search fund - see what I'm saying? I'm not the only one focusing on appearance though because the press reported the mother's purple toenails.

Another reason why I brought up the clothing is because when Laci Peterson went missing what's the first thing people said they noticed about Scott Peterson? If you're not familiar with the Peterson case, here's a description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson

I understand that. I just feel that no matter who the person is in these sorts of cases they get their lives scrutinized by the general public, I think thats just our nature as society. It is what it is. If they stayed out of the public eye they would be looked at as being guilty as well. I think its a lose lose situation. IMO
I am sure the donation money is being watched very closely, thats a no brainer. IMO

[Amy]

I believe the police think it is a family member. I mean the family say they took polygraphs but the police won't comment. Hmmmm

In most of the cases I have followed, it seems LE will not comment on whether or not anyone passed or failed an LDT. In fact, in some, they wouldn't even acknowledge whether or not LDT's were taken. Probaby because LDT results aren't allowed in the trial, whether the person passed or failed. So, they use that as a tool to rule out whom they think they should be looking for. Or, sometimes as an intimidation tool to try to get someone to confess.

[Amy]

The only reason why I brought up clothing/appearance what not, is because from what I read, these are people that are supposed to be living in subsidized housing. In addition to this, Woodstock is very much an automotive factory industry and there are a lot of people laid off right now due to the state of economy and can't afford a whole lot of nice things.

....snip



As far as clothing and jewelry are concerned--perhaps these, especially the jewelry were purchased @ a time prior to her having to be on subsidized housing, or were gifts for a birthday or Christmas? As for clothing, one can find very nice clothing @ thrift shops, Goodwill, etc. For adults and for kids.

That being said, if my DD was missing, I am not sure I would have enough wits about me to put on my best clothes and jewelry, or to have my hair combed so neatly. But, there might be someone with her who is helping her get dressed for the interviews and such.

I do agree with the poster who says they should have a PR person to speak for them. They are not involved, so are less likely to make off the cuff remarks. And they are experienced in talking to the press. Like someone from the Sund-Carrington foundation as was done by Sharon Rocha in the Laci Peterson case. Too bad her SIL didn't just let the spokesperson speak also for the Peterson side.

[ttcRider]

As far as clothing and jewelry are concerned--perhaps these, especially the jewelry were purchased @ a time prior to her having to be on subsidized housing, or were gifts for a birthday or Christmas? As for clothing, one can find very nice clothing @ thrift shops, Goodwill, etc. For adults and for kids.

That being said, if my DD was missing, I am not sure I would have enough wits about me to put on my best clothes and jewelry, or to have my hair combed so neatly. But, there might be someone with her who is helping her get dressed for the interviews and such.

I do agree with the poster who says they should have a PR person to speak for them. They are not involved, so are less likely to make off the cuff remarks. And they are experienced in talking to the press. Like someone from the Sund-Carrington foundation as was done by Sharon Rocha in the Laci Peterson case. Too bad her SIL didn't just let the spokesperson speak also for the Peterson side.

I was thinking on this a little further and my thoughts are that it is so easy to fall into depression in crisis situations (not wanting to get out of bed etc), maybe someone is telling/forceing her to get up each morning, take a shower, get dressed etc to help her feel better. KWIM? Not sure if I was able to explain myself very well but hopefully some of you will understand what I'm getting at. JMO anyways..

[kelloggirl]

Haha are you serious? Wow no, I didn't mean to give off that impression at all. I'll admit, I'm not someone who would ever associate with Tara nor her boyfriend, ex husband, etc on a social basis. However, I am someone that doesn't agree with the way they conduct themselves in public that I have personally witnessed, even before Victoria's abduction. It's all relative, and I feel as though it all ties in together. I didn't say groping or kissing someone's neck in public is a crime, but it says a lot about someone's character - if they're OK to do that in public, in front of someone's 8 and 10 year old children. Got it?!

I will say this once, and once only: I do not hate them, because I do not personally know them but have seen their actions around town from a spectator standpoint. I can understand how you might've taken this out of context, considering the fact that you can't judge tone via written text over the internet.

Don't worry Scarlett100, I did not think that about you based on your post. I appreciate any information from locals. It does say perhaps they aren't discreet or even have much "class" whatever that means in this day and age. Although I'm much more likely to read more into people's actions after the disappearance rather than before, and IMO, there's plenty that raises some flags - maybe not red ones, but yellow, perhaps.

I agree with Pinetree that many things Tara says sound like things Casey Anthony (or her mouthpieces, her family) has said. Then again, it's possible my antenna for that sort of thing is sensitized thanks to my immersion in that case. At any rate, it is standard protocol to thoroughly eliminate those closest to the child so the investigation can proceed more efficiently. Speculation and observation of their interviews, demeanor, attire here won't really impact what LE does, but many posters here have been around the block once or twice on missing children's cases and have a lot to add to the discussion.

[iveyguy]

Hi everyone -- new to this forum, and very intrigued by the Tori Stafford case. There's something about the family, especially the mom, that makes me very suspicious about her. In addition to what's been said above, there are two quotes in particular that trouble me:

April 17th in the Toronto Star - "It's a small town. Not everybody's gonna like you, you know? Bottom line, I don't feel I have any vindictive enemies whatsoever. So I hope it's a stranger because I don't think that I would let anybody into my life, or my circle, who would do something like this."

Not everyone is going to like you? You don't think you'd let anybody into your life that would do something like that? But you're not sure? So who doesn't like you that you've let in to your life?


April 16th in the Toronto Star, on the alleged $33k drug debt - "It is all bull**** – I don't owe anyone anything. If there is anyone who says I owe him money, bring him to me here and I'll answer all questions... Be realistic, there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt".

If there's anyone who says I owe HIM money, bring HIM here and I'll answer all questions? Who is HE? What are the answers? And then the kicker... "there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt". How big of debt will they let you have then? How do you know how big a drug debt can get? And why wouldn't you just flat out deny having a debt -- unless, of course, you had one... just not $33k worth.

I don't know -- maybe I'm being over critical of her and not critical enough of LE... but her reactions certainly lead me to believe that she knows more than she has let on. Add this to her boyfriend's criminal history with drugs and his refusal to look at the camera... my instinct tells me this is drug-related. I really do hope that Tori is still safe... obviously that's what is most important here.

[moonlite]

Hi everyone -- new to this forum, and very intrigued by the Tori Stafford case. There's something about the family, especially the mom, that makes me very suspicious about her. In addition to what's been said above, there are two quotes in particular that trouble me:

April 17th in the Toronto Star - "It's a small town. Not everybody's gonna like you, you know? Bottom line, I don't feel I have any vindictive enemies whatsoever. So I hope it's a stranger because I don't think that I would let anybody into my life, or my circle, who would do something like this."

Not everyone is going to like you? You don't think you'd let anybody into your life that would do something like that? But you're not sure? So who doesn't like you that you've let in to your life?


April 16th in the Toronto Star, on the alleged $33k drug debt - "It is all bull**** – I don't owe anyone anything. If there is anyone who says I owe him money, bring him to me here and I'll answer all questions... Be realistic, there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt".

If there's anyone who says I owe HIM money, bring HIM here and I'll answer all questions? Who is HE? What are the answers? And then the kicker... "there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt". How big of debt will they let you have then? How do you know how big a drug debt can get? And why wouldn't you just flat out deny having a debt -- unless, of course, you had one... just not $33k worth.

I don't know -- maybe I'm being over critical of her and not critical enough of LE... but her reactions certainly lead me to believe that she knows more than she has let on. Add this to her boyfriend's criminal history with drugs and his refusal to look at the camera... my instinct tells me this is drug-related. I really do hope that Tori is still safe... obviously that's what is most important here.

Greetings"
Iveyguy'

Yes' I agree with you. I think the mom knows much more than she is saying and needs to come clean.

Moonlite

[n/t]

Hi everyone -- new to this forum, and very intrigued by the Tori Stafford case. There's something about the family, especially the mom, that makes me very suspicious about her. In addition to what's been said above, there are two quotes in particular that trouble me:

April 17th in the Toronto Star - "It's a small town. Not everybody's gonna like you, you know? Bottom line, I don't feel I have any vindictive enemies whatsoever. So I hope it's a stranger because I don't think that I would let anybody into my life, or my circle, who would do something like this."

Not everyone is going to like you? You don't think you'd let anybody into your life that would do something like that? But you're not sure? So who doesn't like you that you've let in to your life?


April 16th in the Toronto Star, on the alleged $33k drug debt - "It is all bull**** – I don't owe anyone anything. If there is anyone who says I owe him money, bring him to me here and I'll answer all questions... Be realistic, there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt".

If there's anyone who says I owe HIM money, bring HIM here and I'll answer all questions? Who is HE? What are the answers? And then the kicker... "there are no drug dealers who would let you have that kind of a debt". How big of debt will they let you have then? How do you know how big a drug debt can get? And why wouldn't you just flat out deny having a debt -- unless, of course, you had one... just not $33k worth.

I don't know -- maybe I'm being over critical of her and not critical enough of LE... but her reactions certainly lead me to believe that she knows more than she has let on. Add this to her boyfriend's criminal history with drugs and his refusal to look at the camera... my instinct tells me this is drug-related. I really do hope that Tori is still safe... obviously that's what is most important here.



In my opinion she was responding to rumours out there and wanted to squelch those rumours. She obviously has people who don't like her. People are commenting on what she wears, how her bf kisses her..etc.

I don't know if any of that has anything to do with Victoria being kidnapped. All I know is that she is thankful that Tori's case finally got the attention it deserved.

I am also a Casey Anthony's case addict but I don't see the similarities to her case at all. First off, they reported Victoria missing immediately and did not wait 31 days. Secondly, from what we've read in articles, they're cooperating with LE and have taken lie detector tests. I'm sure there are more but those are the 2 off the top of my head.

As with any missing person's case, the family is looked at and this case is not any different. What I'm having a hard time with is some are being very hard on the mom but we haven't seen any of that towards the dad. Why? Do some believe he's so perfect? Remember....he also said he had people who dislike him. It's in one of the articles. Did he not have a social life? Ok...perhaps he doesn't have a criminal record that we know of but do we know of any ex girlfriends holding grudges against Tori's mom. No we don't.

I have not seen any donation requests from the family. Have any of you? That to me says they're not in this for attention nor money.

Bottom line....whatever the family's imperfect lifestyles are, Victoria is still missing and needs to be found.

We all have skeletons in the closet but thankfully many of us haven't had to deal with a loved one gone missing.

ETA: To add to the above, even if one of the family members had debt or drug involvement, nobody has the right to take a little girl. What kind of coward is he/her? If they have an issue, take it out on the parents. Leave the children out of it. That's why I believe this has nothing to do with debt or drugs!

[kelloggirl]

Thanks for posting this. So many inconsistencies which causes everyone to jump to conclusions - which is why I posted earlier that too many members in the family have been talking to the press when they shouldn't have been. At first I thought she was supposed to go to the father's house too.

As one poster stated there's also a time gap that can't be accounted for. I think the poster said between 3 and 6 PM.

Also, the school doesn't allow children to be released to just anyone. If it was habit for the son to walk the handicapped child/children home and then go back to the school to retrieve Tori (thought I read something about Tori would wait for Daryn to come back to the school to get her after walking the handicapped child/children home, or she would tag along with him) - did Daryn not go back to the school to retrieve Tori after walking these kids home? This is the part that's chewing at me, because it seems odd that Daryn didn't go to the principal's office or something and tell someone that his sister is gone.

What, he just brushed it off???

And then 3 hours later the mother turns around and asks her son "Where's your sister?"

Very good questions. It would be helpful to have a factual account of that exact timeframe and the circumstances around her disappearance. Even the very basic, who noticed Tori was missing first?

It's good that they searched the pond near the school, at least to rule it out.

[streeter]

Found the link to the newspaper article where the Stafford aunt states her preference:

http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Crime/article/620553

"For me, honestly, I would prefer that it wasn't a stranger," Tori's doting aunt continued. "My belief is that if it's somebody that knows her, there's less of a chance that she would be hurt by that person."

So if the mother is going to be condemned for having this preference, guess the aunt is going to be condemend too?

I wasn't "condemning" anyone. Sheesh.

Read the posts I've made about the subject. I am not comfortable with the mom hoping that the girl is with a stranger rather than someone who likes and cares about Tori. How many times have we seen killers let someone go free because the victim has talked to them and made a connection with the person? The fact that the mother would prefer that the child is with someone who has NO emotional connection to Tori whatsoever, so that she can absolve herself of any guilt associated with introducing such a person into the childrens' lives, is troubling at best.

Judging by what the aunt has said, she agrees. Her "preference" is understandable. I never said they weren't allowed to prefer that the child is in the care of someone who has a connection with her.

Good grief. Can't anyone else speculate about or comment upon the people involved in this tragedy besides you?

[streeter]

My last comment was borne from the far-reaching assumption you made about how Scarlett doesn't have anything nice to say about the family so she must be a scorned ex-somethingorother.

I was also reacting to what I perceived as a provocative and antagonistic tone in your post about condemning both sides.

You seem highly sensitive to criticism of the family, yet you have indulged in it yourself. You seem to be surprised at what is being said here in response to Tara's interviews with the media. That's what goes on here. You won't find a thread on these boards that doesn't have a media post and then pages and pages of picking-apart of the quotes.

The fact is, as a result of what I've read and seen about this case, I have a nagging bad feeling about the mother. If that bothers you, then you may want to skip over my posts, unless/until something happens in the case to turn my head in a different direction.

And yes, I will be the first to hang my head in shame if she is found to not be involved. I hope my hunches and red flags are wrong. I hope Tori is found safe and returned to her family. I don't think any of us here who have suspicions about the mother are actually hoping that she is guilty of something horrible.

[n/t]

Alright I'm going by certain cases I've read about, if I would've known that everyone was going to rip me apart for bringing up clothing (mind you, I didn't go into that much detail how Scarlet did), I wouldn't have mentioned it. Little details about how someone appears very much sends off red flags for me - case in point, the Menendez brothers. All of it has to be taken into consideration - it's called behavioural patterns and out of character. These people are going to be living as if they're in a fish bowl - you don't think the police will be watching little details like this either? As I mentioned in one previous post, the only mother of all the missing childrens cases I've read about, that kept her appearance up was the mother from the JonBenet Ramsey case - but, those people were billionaires to begin with.

I didn't rip you apart. You snipped my post but if you go back and reread what I posted, I said I didn't know if what mom wears or does has anything to do with Tori's disappareance. You are not the only one who believes the mom's behaviour is bizarre. If you read the comments section in most of the articles, people are posting their suspicions about the mom.

All I meant to say is perhaps we're focusing too much on the mom. Statistics do tell us that a high percentage in missing children cases, a parent or someone they know is responsible. Only a small percent is stranger abduction. In my opinion, we should look at all parties. I see a lot of finger pointing at the mom (not you but what I read elsewhere too). Maybe the dad and his past should be looked into too.

There is no doubt that the OPP is looking at this family very closely and perhaps they already have information. Sadly, if they're searching the pond (waterways), they may have information to lead them in the direction that Victoria may no longer be alive. I hope I'm wrong and they're just doing this because they want to cover all bases.

I wish we knew if they had further information as to where Tori and the mystery woman were headed after they were seen on the video. Did they get into a car? If they walked, surely more people saw them. What else is in the area they were headed? Do we know if the search dogs picked up a scent? If so, where?

What about their neighbours? Did anyone see anything?

Still so many questions.:sad:

[Heidi J.]

I would assume it is the elderly people that may not have heard. But that is weird because Tori's flyer is most likely on every street corner and store there not to mention all over the news.

I think you would be surprised by the amount of people who didn't have any idea about Tori's abduction. I was talking the other day to a lady at work, about Sandra Cantu. She knew about her, but had no clue who Caylee Anthony was:confused: The crazy part, is this woman has a TV with cable in her office!

Some people just don't watch the news.:sad:

[Maelstrom5]

Hi all,

There seems to be nothing new in today’s news; just that the search has re-started at square one.
(Ponds, door-to-door)

I think one of the things that have been bothering all of us is the polygraph tests and what they may or may not have suggested. I don’t know Canadian law; there may be a standing protocol not to reveal the results, but some here have said that the police never reveal the results of a test; that is not accurate.

If you go to the Amber Dubois thread you will see that the Escondido, California PD quickly stated that Amber mom and her boyfriend alone with Amber’s dad, took and passed lie detector tests. I know the Vermont State Police did the same thing when Brianna Maitland vanished back in 2004. So various police agency’s do release the results, others do not tell you the results but will state that the parents are not persons of interest in the case. To date neither has been done in Tori’s case.

[streeter]

Pond Divers in Tori Search Find Nothing (http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/2009/04/19/9166556.html)

Police divers have finished searching a pond near the home of Tori Stafford and found nothing related to her abduction.

Oxford police Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland said Sunday the OPP underwater search and recovery team that scoured the Southside Park pond on Saturday turned up no evidence — and are moving on to other waterways.

Contrary to one published report that seemed to suggest investigators were looking for a body, Maitland stressed investigators “have no information to suggest she’s in the water.”

“We want to be thorough and we (the local force) didn’t have divers last week” when the area was first checked, she said.

“We are just being thorough.”

[n/t]

Hi all,

There seems to be nothing new in today’s news; just that the search has re-started at square one.
(Ponds, door-to-door)

I think one of the things that have been bothering all of us is the polygraph tests and what they may or may not have suggested. I don’t know Canadian law; there may be a standing protocol not to reveal the results, but some here have said that the police never reveal the results of a test; that is not accurate.

If you go to the Amber Dubois thread you will see that the Escondido, California PD quickly stated that Amber mom and her boyfriend alone with Amber’s dad, took and passed lie detector tests. I know the Vermont State Police did the same thing when Brianna Maitland vanished back in 2004. So various police agency’s do release the results, others do not tell you the results but will state that the parents are not persons of interest in the case. To date neither has been done in Tori’s case.


Hi Peter,

It's used just as another investigative tool but inadmissable in court. In my opinion, whether or not LE releases the information has to do with whether the results are inconclusive. I believe that may be the case here.

IIRC, Cedrika's dad also took a polygraph but I don't think we were ever told of the results.

In Haleigh Cummings case, the same. We know members of her family took polygraphs but we weren't told the results.

[koawally]

My last comment was borne from the far-reaching assumption you made about how Scarlett doesn't have anything nice to say about the family so she must be a scorned ex-somethingorother.

I was also reacting to what I perceived as a provocative and antagonistic tone in your post about condemning both sides.

You seem highly sensitive to criticism of the family, yet you have indulged in it yourself. You seem to be surprised at what is being said here in response to Tara's interviews with the media. That's what goes on here. You won't find a thread on these boards that doesn't have a media post and then pages and pages of picking-apart of the quotes.

The fact is, as a result of what I've read and seen about this case, I have a nagging bad feeling about the mother. If that bothers you, then you may want to skip over my posts, unless/until something happens in the case to turn my head in a different direction.

And yes, I will be the first to hang my head in shame if she is found to not be involved. I hope my hunches and red flags are wrong. I hope Tori is found safe and returned to her family. I don't think any of us here who have suspicions about the mother are actually hoping that she is guilty of something horrible.

I as well have a nagging bad feeling about the Mother!!

Hope I'm wrong...Praying for Tori's safe return

[Maelstrom5]

Hi Peter,

It's used just as another investigative tool but inadmissable in court. In my opinion, whether or not LE releases the information has to do with whether the results are inconclusive. I believe that may be the case here.

IIRC, Cedrika's dad also took a polygraph but I don't think we were ever told of the results.

In Haleigh Cummings case, the same. We know members of her family took polygraphs but we weren't told the results.

Hi n/t,

You drew the same conclusion that I did. But we should also note something else; it was after the tests that the police went out of their way to say that everyone is still a potential suspect. And it was after the tests that they made the somewhat allusive statement of having "substantial direction" in identifying the woman on the video.

It may just turn out to be nothing more then a timeline coincident- we will have to wait and see.

[moonlite]

My last comment was borne from the far-reaching assumption you made about how Scarlett doesn't have anything nice to say about the family so she must be a scorned ex-somethingorother.

I was also reacting to what I perceived as a provocative and antagonistic tone in your post about condemning both sides.

You seem highly sensitive to criticism of the family, yet you have indulged in it yourself. You seem to be surprised at what is being said here in response to Tara's interviews with the media. That's what goes on here. You won't find a thread on these boards that doesn't have a media post and then pages and pages of picking-apart of the quotes.

The fact is, as a result of what I've read and seen about this case, I have a nagging bad feeling about the mother. If that bothers you, then you may want to skip over my posts, unless/until something happens in the case to turn my head in a different direction.

And yes, I will be the first to hang my head in shame if she is found to not be involved. I hope my hunches and red flags are wrong. I hope Tori is found safe and returned to her family. I don't think any of us here who have suspicions about the mother are actually hoping that she is guilty of something horrible.

Greetings'
Streeter"

I agree with you. I could not have said this any better myself. I just want to add, that my community went through an abduction case. The case involved a serial killer, who did return the little girl alive. The little girl did establish a connection of emotions with the killer. So if by chance this is a total stranger abduction, there is still hope for little Tori. Yet' I just don't think it is a stranger abduction.IMO'

Moonlite

[n/t]

All this bickering will get this thread shut down. It's happened with other threads in the past and it would be a real shame. Please for Tori's sake, stop attacking one another and let's try to keep this thread open for any information that will help find her and to continue our discussions on what may have happened to her. Thank you.

[Maelstrom5]

All this bickering will get this thread shut down. It's happened with other threads in the past and it would be a real shame. Please for Tori's sake, stop attacking one another and let's try to keep this thread open for any information that will help find her and to continue our discussions on what may have happened to her. Thank you.

ITA! n/t

Lets just agree to disagree and move on.

[n/t]

I'm so glad to hear they didn't find Tori or any evidence of her abduction in the pond. It gives me hope that she could still be alive. :rose:

[Orleaner12]

any news today re Tori...

[ginky41]

I wanted to post a theory and see what you guys think...

I'm not sure I necessarily believe this, it's just a thought based on some speculation thus far:

What if there is some drug debt for Tori's mom and stepdad. And what if their family has been threatened. Perhaps they "staged" this abduction to stash Tori somewhere for a period of time. That would accomplish a few things: #1) It would keep Tori "safe." #2) It might deter the "creditor." They may be thinking that they will eventually be blamed even though they are "innocent." #3) It could be a way to generate funds, maybe even to pay the "creditors" back. It certainly would mirror the Shannon Matthews case from the UK.

*IF* this scenario proved to be true it would certainly explain several things.

I should add that I really hope that Tori's parents/family is not involved. I took a moment this weekend to picture my son "missing." What would I do? How would I feel? How would I act? What would I say? Ugh....I can't even imagine. I can only surmise that I would be barely functional...only functional enough to be searching, searching searching.

[n/t]

"‘Intensified search' aims to cover old ground, get new leads"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090418.wmissing18/BNStory/National/

"Police say they have “pretty substantial direction” regarding the woman's identity, but declined to divulge any more details."

Yes, I read that earlier. I wish we knew what they meant by substantial direction. They either know or don't know who the mystery woman is.

[n/t]

there is a $10,000 reward being offered.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=1492390

Ahhhh ..thank you! I don't know how I missed that!

They should keep mentioning it in the articles, imo!

[juliekan]

I have not been reading here for a day and a half, and was very pleased to glance down the board and see that 2 people have been found, or heard from.

I pray that Tori is found soon.

I don't know what is going on with all these new posters, but I hope they can bring new info to this case, and not strife.

Post your good info! Bring Tori home.

[Leanne Weich]

Welcome to all the new posters. I'm sorry to see that we have a new poster who has come here to try to create problems. This is a very well moderated board and if you newbies would just read a couple of old threads, you'd see that we all speculate on all players in these kinds of cases. I'd hazard a guess that the poster questioning Signup's post may know Victoria's mom and doesn't like her demeanour being questioned. We often have family and friends of crime victims posting here and there is no doubt that it can be difficult for them. In one instance I can recall offhand, we had a guy who murdered his wife posting here trying to profess his innocence. Admittedly, us long-term posters didn't fall for his BS and he wasn't given an exactly friendly reception. Fortunately, he is now serving something like 60 years. His sister also posted here and was open to hearing all speculation and never berated anyone for calling her brother a murderer and really being brutally hard on him. She came back after his sentencing and thanked everyone for their support. Whilst we detested her brother and his actions, we took her into our hearts and gave her our unwaivering support.

Keep an open mind and if you feel someone is being unfairly portrayed, put your opinions forward in a non-antagonistic manner and I'm sure you'll find this is a great forum. JMVHO.

[juliekan]

Thanks Leanne :wink:

We always appreciate your input. Wise words.

[Leanne Weich]

i always believe in innocent until proven guilty and when ya see someone referring to family members as deadbeats and scum bags, who do you report that too because that isn't right. i have to agree with signup, that's not right for people to be doing that. i'm new and did read through the posts and both posters admit in their posts they don't know Tori's mom and that's what made reading the insults more appalling.

where do you report someone for doing that?

To report a post go to the offending post and click on the red triangle in the right upper corner of said post and follow the prompts.

If you always believe in innocent until proven guilty, why do you bother with message boards which, by their very nature, are for speculation, theories and opinions? For the record, Tori's mom sets my hinky meter off too - as does her boyfriend.

[Leanne Weich]

i like reading other people's opinions. i'm not narrow minded and when i read what other people think, it makes me think. it's possibilities. but keep in mind this missing little girl has grandparents and the children of these grandparents just happen to be tori's parents and tori has a brother. a prosecuting lawyer even has to consider reasonable doubt when trying to establish an air tight case.

of course people are going to make speculations, hopefully from newspapers articles though. that's the difference. i think that's to be expected. when someone just blurts out scum bag and deadbeat, that just makes me feel bad for tori's brother and tori's grandparents should they happen across that about their child. tori's brother is going to have to read that one day.

Quite honestly, Tori's grandparents and/or any other relatives shouldn't be surprised by what they find written on the internet given that the history of Tori's mom and her boyfriend are not the norm. Maybe the poster recounting the stories about Tori's mom has personal knowledge of those events.

[BevAnn]

I've said it here before, and I'll say it again - if either of my children came up missing, I would be HYSTERICAL!! Everyone here would be, that must be our BevAnn, she always said she'd be crazed! I mean, I would be a freaking mess.

Now, that being said, I am sure a doctor would HAVE to put me on some sorta tranquillizers or something, so I could even function to some small degree. Then I would look like a zombie when reporters talked to me.

so, when I see these video clips - I expect hysterical or zoned out (due to meds). I don't expect calm, cool and collected.

I haven't seen but one short clip of the mom. Not really enough to say either way. :confused:

[Kip]

I've said it here before, and I'll say it again - if either of my children came up missing, I would be HYSTERICAL!! Everyone here would be, that must be our BevAnn, she always said she'd be crazed! I mean, I would be a freaking mess.

Now, that being said, I am sure a doctor would HAVE to put me on some sorta tranquillizers or something, so I could even function to some small degree. Then I would look like a zombie when reporters talked to me.

so, when I see these video clips - I expect hysterical or zoned out (due to meds). I don't expect calm, cool and collected.

I haven't seen but one short clip of the mom. Not really enough to say either way. :confused:

I don't expect hysterical. In fact, I don't recall any parents of missing children acting hysterically (other than original 911 calls). Zoned out, yes, though more from fear and dread than drugs. It's the same expressions you see on the faces of people waiting in a hospital waiting room for a loved one who is fighting for his or her life.

If I don't see fear, dread, and anguish in the face of a parent of a missing child, I'm suspicious.

[BevAnn]

yeah, you're prob right Kip....hysteria in the beginning....zoned out after that. I couldn't keep it together without being drugged though.

Although, I don't believe that's why the stepdad has that "drugged" look in his tv interviews. :sneaky:

[Maelstrom5]

Child abductions by strangers actually rare
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4846.msg774814
Scroll down a few posts.

This news article is from the US and was prompted by the disappearance of Haleigh Cummings, but it is very informative and worth the read.

**snipped**

“First, violent crimes against children have declined steadily over the past generation. The U.S. Department of Justice reports that 81 out of every 1,000 children between the ages of 12 and 15 were victims of violent crime in 1973, compared with 44 out of 1,000 in 2005.

And, second, the worst of those crimes - kidnappings, rapes and murders - are being committed not by strangers hunting innocents but by family members, neighbors or trusted adults the family knows.”

[Kip]

yeah, you're prob right Kip....hysteria in the beginning....zoned out after that. I couldn't keep it together without being drugged though.

Although, I don't believe that's why the stepdad has that "drugged" look in his tv interviews. :sneaky:

You know, Bev, the times I can see myself becoming hysterical would be when I didn't think LE was doing enough. I could totally understand Haleigh Cummings dad's response to the 911 operator -- I'd be saying "quit asking questions and get somebody out here, my child is missing." And if, like in Tori's case, LE wasn't looking at it as a possible abduction, I would probably lose it and be screaming my head off.

[moonlite]

Did anyone else read about the fact that some police went door-to-door in Woodstock, and SEVERAL people had NO idea or clue about the disappearance of Tori and that it was their first time hearing about it? That absolutely blew me out of the water, in such a small little town you'd think everyone would know..

Greetings'
Woodstonian"

Yes' I'm amazed myself' how a small size community' let alone the whole of Canada, not have Tori's information? I thought the media was doing a good job of broad casting ? Isn't the media that it was broad cast on national through out Canada?

Moonlite

[ginky41]

I posted this theory yesterday but didn't get any responses. I'm wondering what those of you following the case think about this possibility:

I'm not sure I necessarily believe this, it's just a thought based on some speculation thus far:

What if there is some drug debt for Tori's mom and stepdad. And what if their family has been threatened. Perhaps they "staged" this abduction to stash Tori somewhere for a period of time. That would accomplish a few things: #1) It would keep Tori "safe." #2) It might deter the "creditor." They may be thinking that they will eventually be blamed even though they are "innocent." #3) It could be a way to generate funds, maybe even to pay the "creditors" back. It certainly would mirror the Shannon Matthews case from the UK.

*IF* this scenario proved to be true it would certainly explain several things.

I should add that I really hope that Tori's parents/family is not involved. I took a moment this weekend to picture my son "missing." What would I do? How would I feel? How would I act? What would I say? Ugh....I can't even imagine. I can only surmise that I would be barely functional...only functional enough to be searching, searching searching.

[moonlite]

I am starting to think the police have nothing. I feel this way because the were searching a pond near the school yesterday. I think they are trying to make it out that they do in hopes the person who took Tori will get scared and let her go. :sad:

Greetings'
Dedo'

Yes' you could be right? I do think it is very interesting that the police are only looking in Woodstock. I do think the police know allot more than what is being said to public. Maybe the police already know who the person is and don't have enough evidence?

Moonlite

[Maelstrom5]

Greetings'
Dedo'

Yes' you could be right? I do think it is very interesting that the police are only looking in Woodstock. I do think the police know allot more than what is being said to public. Maybe the police already know who the person is and don't have enough evidence?

Moonlite

Excellent observation Moonlite, the police do have witnesses; the other people seen in the video and those people have probably given the OPP a description of the woman. I think there is a good chance they could pick her out of a lineup. But no violence was seen in the video so at this point in time they probably don't have enough information to make an arrest.

[moonlite]

OPP search landfill
www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1531757

"An OPP search team combed through piles of garbage at the Oxford County Landfill Monday as the investigation into the abduction of Victoria “Tori” Stafford entered its 13th day.

The team of roughly 20 Emergency Response Team officers sifted through garbage that had been collected from Woodstock since the night of Tori’s disappearance, looking for any evidence that could be connected to the abduction of the missing eight-year-old. Because of the rainy weather, OPP officers suspended their search in the early afternoon but should return to the landfill early this morning…."

Greetings'
Maelstrom"

So why do you think the police are only searching in the Woodstock area? I mean the policed seem to be centered on the city? Why have they not expanded the search to other cities? I mean Tori' could be any where if it is a stranger abduction.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Excellent observation Moonlite, the police do have witnesses; the other people seen in the video and those people have probably given the OPP a description of the woman. I think there is a good chance they could pick her out of a lineup. But no violence was seen in the video so at this point in time they probably don't have enough information to make an arrest.

Greetings'
Maelstrom"

I'm wondering why the police have not issued a sketch of the lady in white coat? I know they have a witness that seen the lady in white coat? I just think it's a bit odd the police have not done this yet?
To me that kind of saying they know who the lady with white coat could be.

Moonlite

[ginky41]

I posted this theory yesterday but didn't get any responses. I'm wondering what those of you following the case think about this possibility:

I'm not sure I necessarily believe this, it's just a thought based on some speculation thus far:

What if there is some drug debt for Tori's mom and stepdad. And what if their family has been threatened. Perhaps they (Tori's mom & her bf) "staged" this abduction to stash Tori somewhere for a period of time. That would accomplish a few things: #1) It would keep Tori "safe." #2) It might deter the "creditor." They may be thinking that they will eventually be blamed even though they are "innocent." #3) It could be a way to generate funds, maybe even to pay the "creditors" back. It certainly would mirror the Shannon Matthews case from the UK.

*IF* this scenario proved to be true it would certainly explain several things.

I should add that I really hope that Tori's parents/family is not involved. I took a moment this weekend to picture my son "missing." What would I do? How would I feel? How would I act? What would I say? Ugh....I can't even imagine. I can only surmise that I would be barely functional...only functional enough to be searching, searching searching.

Sorry to quote my own post, too late to edit. What I meant to say was what if Tori's parents (mom & bf) "staged" this abduction?

[Nen]

I just saw an update on the news and they showed police and searchers going through the landfill and searching the water again. Are they just being safe by looking everywhere or are they looking for her body?

They do seem to be focused mainly in Woodstock so I'd assume or hope they have their reasons for keeping the search local.

Nothing at all surprises me these days, so until I'm shown otherwise I will continue to have this nagging feeling that mom and stepdad aren't being totally honest.

[n/t]

I just saw an update on the news and they showed police and searchers going through the landfill and searching the water again. Are they just being safe by looking everywhere or are they looking for her body?

They do seem to be focused mainly in Woodstock so I'd assume or hope they have their reasons for keeping the search local.

Nothing at all surprises me these days, so until I'm shown otherwise I will continue to have this nagging feeling that mom and stepdad aren't being totally honest.

Nen, I believe they're looking for a body.:sad:

Searching waterways and landfills doesn't sound good. I don't know about the mom or stepdad or any other member of the family having anything to do with her disappearance but I think OPP has a theory of what may have happened to Tori and perhaps finding her body will solidify their case.

I pray I'm wrong and Tori will be found alive. :rose:

[n/t]

I wonder if they've questioned Daryn. The poor kid. :sad:

[ttcRider]

This is the first time in all the cases I've followed that I've seen money being raised for mental health. I'm not saying it's a bad thing...just very odd. Have any of you seen this before? Usually money is raised for searches or flyers or tshirts or anything of that sort but mental health? I'm confused.



Oxford County : Tori's Ride Home To Raise Money For Mental Health
Posted by Ashley DeGroote


The family of missing eight year old Tori Stafford are planning a charity motorcycle ride to raise funds for psychiatrists and psychologists . 'Tori's Ride Home' is planned for May 2 leaving the Zellers parking lot in Woodstock and ending at Southend Appliances with registration starting at 11:30. Tori's Aunt Linda Jacklin says a second bank account will be set up to help with mental health for the children. The family is also hoping Tori will be found by then and the ride will be a celebration. A bank account has already been set up to help the family pay for their telephone in case the missing girl calls home.


http://cd989.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16077

Bolding is mine - I found that a bit odd too, especially when most of these services are covered under Health Care Insurance. OHIP :confused:

[kelloggirl]

This is the first time in all the cases I've followed that I've seen money being raised for mental health. I'm not saying it's a bad thing...just very odd. Have any of you seen this before? Usually money is raised for searches or flyers or tshirts or anything of that sort but mental health? I'm confused.



Oxford County : Tori's Ride Home To Raise Money For Mental Health
Posted by Ashley DeGroote


The family of missing eight year old Tori Stafford are planning a charity motorcycle ride to raise funds for psychiatrists and psychologists . 'Tori's Ride Home' is planned for May 2 leaving the Zellers parking lot in Woodstock and ending at Southend Appliances with registration starting at 11:30. Tori's Aunt Linda Jacklin says a second bank account will be set up to help with mental health for the children. The family is also hoping Tori will be found by then and the ride will be a celebration. A bank account has already been set up to help the family pay for their telephone in case the missing girl calls home.


http://cd989.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16077

I agree. I've never heard of such a thing in missing children's cases. Search parties and resources are the most common first prioirity. Psychologists and psychiatrists...isn't that extremely premature? I don't fault families for being optimistic, not at all, but this makes a lot of assumptions here. First, that she's alive, second, that she will be returned, and third, that she will have been traumatized in some way (although that's kind of a given if she's been taken against her will).

I'm sorry to those who are against speculation or saying anything negative about this family, but almost everything they do seems a little off to me. Not excessively so, no, not like the Anthony's, but more than one thing, more than once, and it starts to add up a bit and leaves me scratching my head more often than not.

[streeter]

Counselling is available through family doc and is covered by OHIP. If doc refers you to specialist (ie psychiatrist), this is covered by OHIP.

Individuals can make an appointment with counsellors who advertise their services, but you have to pay out of pocket.

In a case such as this, I'm sure a quick appt with the family doc or even a walk-in clinic would secure a referral to a mental health professional which would be covered by OHIP.

(I know this from counselling I had to secure for my child during a traumatic period several years ago.)

Back to the fundraising: The aunt claims that the last BBQ was for mental health funding. The upcoming one is to keep the phone lines open. Nobody is working, and they want the phone line open if/when Tori calls home. Can't blame them for that, but my phone bill is only about fifty bucks a month.

They also mention that money would also go into a trust fund for the children.