April 7 [Archive] - Page 3 - In Session Message Boards

Stella Rose

04-07-2009, 04:24 PM

There shouldn't be any too-tired CSI members when they just found the suitcase yesterday.
I understand completely what y'all mean, just in my opinion - I would not be too tired to investigate thoroughly.

But we have no idea what they have been doing in the mean time. If they need a break, they need a break. Nothing we can do about it. And even if you don't feel tired, the mind has a way of wandering when you have a lack of sleep. Endorphins may kick in and you feel fine - but mistakes can be made.

And isn't it LE's job to be out there protecting people - not the CSI's? I know they have to gather the evidence to find/convict the perp, but I don't see how a nap put anyone else in immediate danger.

It's been how many days now since Sandra was taken? Not trying to be contrary, just wondering.

Dogmatic

04-07-2009, 04:26 PM

There shouldn't be any too-tired CSI members when they just found the suitcase yesterday.
I understand completely what y'all mean, just in my opinion - I would not be too tired to investigate thoroughly.

I like your spirit dgfred and you make some very valid points.

There is a killer out there. You are the kind I want on my team

koawally

04-07-2009, 04:26 PM

I am firmly in the "line them up and shoot them" corner, but I would never question someone else's beliefs.

I have never seen any good way to prevent these crimes - other than keeping your children locked up 24/7.

I would love to hear theories on how to prevent all these horrible crimes, especially the 116...

Drug offenders and non violent criminals that get harsher punishments than some of these REPEAT sexual offenders that prey on our kids! There is something terribly wrong with that!!

Children are NOT a priority in our society and that has to change!!!

How many more precious babies will die...before we wake up and become active in creating change? Condolences for the families of murdered children......isn't enough.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:27 PM

Never mind, I've stirred up a hornet's nest.

All I was saying is that I would have a tough time taking a break of any sort, probably why I am not a CSI in the first place.

They were probably doing exactly what they should have been doing anyway for all I know.

Stella Rose

04-07-2009, 04:27 PM

Drug offenders and non violent criminals that get harsher punishments than some of these REPEAT sexual offenders that prey on our kids! There is something terribly wrong with that!!

Children are NOT a priority in our society and that has to change!!!

How many more precious babies will die...before we wake up and become active in creating change? Condolences for the families of murdered children......isn't enough.

Thank you! You said what I was thinking - only you said it much better than I could.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 04:28 PM

Exactly. A very costly mistake could be made by being over tired. Due to the time frame in this case, there should/could/would be alot of valuable evidence contained within the suitcase.

I want that CSI team well rested, fed and on their "A" game when they collect their samples.
I agree! :smile: And another reason for this is the defense attorney at trial bringing up the number of straight hours the CSI worked and claiming the evidence is corrupted. It'd be like they are with eyewitnesses, asking how many hours they'd been up before witnessing a crime and implying their sight was off because of it. MOO

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:28 PM

I like your spirit dgfred and you make some very valid points.

There is a killer out there. You are the kind I want on my team

Thanks for that Dog! :beer:

koawally

04-07-2009, 04:31 PM

Thank you! You said what I was thinking - only you said it much better than I could.

I thought you said it rather well Stella..."line them up and shoot them"...and I wholeheartedly agree.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:32 PM

I agree! :smile: And another reason for this is the defense attorney at trial bringing up the number of straight hours the CSI worked and claiming the evidence is corrupted. It'd be like they are with eyewitnesses, asking how many hours they'd been up before witnessing a crime and implying their sight was off because of it. MOO

Sounds like 'OJ trial' symptoms there are showing their ugly heads.
Defense attorny skewing perfectly good evidence. Hopefully a good jury would see straight through the smoke and mirrors of a pitiful attempt like that.

emdragon

04-07-2009, 04:33 PM

What? You can't be serious. 1+ day = excess amount of time :rolleyes: .

So you know when they came on shift? You know that they had not already been working on evidence in this case as well as others? So you know that 18 to 24 hours on the job is not going to be a gift to the defense?
We know that they were on the scene by 11:30 am yesterday and that evidence was being gathered until after 4 am then they had an almost 2 hour drive back to Sac.
Just as they took their time yesterday to make sure they mapped everything and gathered as much evidence as they could before moving the suitcase, they are taking every precaution to make sure no mistakes are made in this case.

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Sounds like 'OJ trial' symptoms there are showing their ugly heads.
Defense attorny skewing perfectly good evidence. Hopefully a good jury would see straight through the smoke and mirrors of a pitiful attempt like that.

I totally agree.....Jurors who are not only intelligent but also have common sense or good ole horse sense.......people who have common sense IMO can usually call BS......

Maelstrom5

04-07-2009, 04:35 PM

The child is already dead. I would want to do what was best for finding the evidence to put the killer away for life. Which would be get a little sleep, have a sandwich and large coffee and get back to work. Sounds like that's what they are doing.

ITA juliekan, the last thing in the world I would want to do is rush my job when I was dead tired only to find out I made a mistake and some sleazy defense lawyer got the POS off because of my mistake.

num1barb

04-07-2009, 04:39 PM

I believe that "some offenders " can be monitored and might not re-offend.......However, I am going to draw a line between a sex offender and a pedophile........A pedophile you CAN NOT repair......And a pedophile is in a different category to a sex offender, a pedophile is a sex offender, but a sex offender doesnt have to be a pedophile....BIG difference.....IMO

Bolding is mine.

YES.

You hit the nail right on the head bama angel.

CC I See

04-07-2009, 04:41 PM

I agree that people who make inappropriate comments to children should be reported. My friend's daughter told me a janitor at her school made some very inappropriate remarks to her. My friend was present when she told me. My friend is very shy so I took her to the school with me and told the principal then went to the police and reported him. It's just not a school employee's job to be making snide off-color remarks to young schoolgirls. I was livid. If they get away with it, it emboldens them to do more of the same.

Good for you and now if we can get the rest of the world to do the same, these SO would not be walking free to hurt our children.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:42 PM

So you know when they came on shift? You know that they had not already been working on evidence in this case as well as others? So you know that 18 to 24 hours on the job is not going to be a gift to the defense?
We know that they were on the scene by 11:30 am yesterday and that evidence was being gathered until after 4 am then they had an almost 2 hour drive back to Sac.
Just as they took their time yesterday to make sure they mapped everything and gathered as much evidence as they could before moving the suitcase, they are taking every precaution to make sure no mistakes are made in this case.

Whatever, maybe you need a nap too.

For myself, they would have to drag me away.

kelloggirl

04-07-2009, 04:45 PM

Where in the article...I cannot find anything when I googled about her mom going to the hospital.? I am tired today so I could just be missing it...???/

I read it in at least 4 different articles last night. Here is one that I found.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MNR116U792.DTL

If you scroll down to the subheading that says "Friendly second-grader" it is in the 2nd to last paragraph.

"Several said Sandra's mother, Maria Chavez, and a grandparent were rushed to a hospital in an ambulance after being told the news of Sandra's death."

k_can004

04-07-2009, 04:46 PM

Bolding is mine.

YES.

You hit the nail right on the head bama angel.

I agree somewhat.... my neighbor (a while back, not a neighbor anymore) was raped by a repeat offender so I am not so sure that they can be rehabilitaed either, although I am sure there is exception to every rule.... but imo a child molester should be given the death penealty on the first offense... again jmoho

emdragon

04-07-2009, 04:47 PM

Whatever, maybe you need a nap too.

For myself, they would have to drag me away.

Excuse me?

I'll just leave it that I'm glad you aren't one of the CSI's. I want it done right not fast.

juliekan

04-07-2009, 04:49 PM

ITA juliekan, the last thing in the world I would want to do is rush my job when I was dead tired only to find out I made a mistake and some sleazy defense lawyer got the POS off because of my mistake.

Thank you. I figure with all the LE agencies involved in this case they are "watching" any persons of interest. The probability of the offender being able to re-offend would dramatically decrease.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:49 PM

What you don't seem to understand... tho your passion and desire for justice is great... there are rules as to how long people can be on certain jobs and I doubt that a CSI would be in a different category. And how does getting fired in the middle of an investigation help anyone??? Because if your boss gives you an order and you disobey... are you helping anyone???

And don't make it sound like people who believe that these people deserve to take care of themselves are wimps.... that's unfair.

I never said that, I just could not comprehend the 'resting' statement.

My point was it seemed unfair to the people of the town, taking a break when it seems that a suspect(s) were so close to being found.
I have never heard someone close to the investigation saying that regarding CSI taking a break during the most intensive part of the whole deal.

emdragon

04-07-2009, 04:52 PM

I read it in at least 4 different articles last night. Here is one that I found.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MNR116U792.DTL

If you scroll down to the subheading that says "Friendly second-grader" it is in the 2nd to last paragraph.

"Several said Sandra's mother, Maria Chavez, and a grandparent were rushed to a hospital in an ambulance after being told the news of Sandra's death."

The local FOX station did report an impromptu candel light vigil after the announcement and that at one point 3 ambulances pulled up near the family's home but they didn't have confirmation on who was inside. Logic would say it was one or more members of the family.

(the Seattle area had a child die in his car seat yesterday (mom left him there while she worked) and when the Grandmother saw the car and crime tape she collapsed right there on the ground)

dgfred

04-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Thank you. I figure with all the LE agencies involved in this case they are "watching" any persons of interest. The probability of the offender being able to re-offend would dramatically decrease.

I'd rather them call in some reinforcements for the CSI if they are worn out.

Dogmatic

04-07-2009, 04:53 PM

I never said that, I just could not comprehend the 'resting' statement.

My point was it seemed unfair to the people of the town, taking a break when it seems that a suspect(s) were so close to being found.
I have never heard someone close to the investigation saying that regarding CSI taking a break during the most intensive part of the whole deal.

My current concern, since there is no hope to find Sandra alive, is that the person/persons responsible for this crime are getting pretty nervous because police are eluding to the fact that what happened isn't such a mystery any more.

They might make a run for it, and then we will have another unsuspecting community in danger.

juliekan

04-07-2009, 04:54 PM

My current concern, since there is no hope to find Sandra alive, is that the person/persons responsible for this crime are getting pretty nervous because police are eluding to the fact that what happened isn't such a mystery any more.

They might make a run for it, and then we will have another unsuspecting community in danger.

I figure with all the LE agencies involved in this case they are "watching" any persons of interest. The probability of the offender being able to re-offend would dramatically decrease.

emdragon

04-07-2009, 04:56 PM

sunstar

04-07-2009, 04:56 PM

Dogmatic

04-07-2009, 04:57 PM

I figure with all the LE agencies involved in this case they are "watching" any persons of interest. The probability of the offender being able to re-offend would dramatically decrease.

I hope so. don't want the little worm to pull a Scott Peterson and dye their hair and make a run for the border.

There is nothing left to hope for for little Sandra. All there is left is justice for her family and friends. I want that justice

Tia

04-07-2009, 04:59 PM

My current concern, since there is no hope to find Sandra alive, is that the person/persons responsible for this crime are getting pretty nervous because police are eluding to the fact that what happened isn't such a mystery any more.

They might make a run for it, and then we will have another unsuspecting community in danger.

Thats most likely why at the latest PC, it was mentioned over and over that LE had no suspects, were holding no one, etc.......they don't want to scare off the murderer, IMO, and I think we will find the murderer lives in the mobile home community. LE already knows who it is.

JMO

irishkitty24

04-07-2009, 04:59 PM

I never said that, I just could not comprehend the 'resting' statement.

My point was it seemed unfair to the people of the town, taking a break when it seems that a suspect(s) were so close to being found.
I have never heard someone close to the investigation saying that regarding CSI taking a break during the most intensive part of the whole deal.

Since we are not privy to what they are doing we should not judge. We do not know what their other cases look like. We do not know what they currently know about Sandra.

What we do know is we want the perp of this heinous crime caught and punished. We do not want him to get off on some loophole or technicality or the mistake of an overworked csi.

jmo

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 04:59 PM

I'd rather them call in some reinforcements for the CSI if they are worn out.

who would they call?

dgfred

04-07-2009, 05:00 PM

I figure with all the LE agencies involved in this case they are "watching" any persons of interest. The probability of the offender being able to re-offend would dramatically decrease.

I'm sure all the parents in the area would feel real good about them watching any persons of interest... probably let all the kids out to play today around the mobile home park since the probability would dramatically decrease.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 05:01 PM

who would they call?

Well since it is California they could ask for CSI help from nearby areas... at least I would hope so.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:03 PM

Well since it is California they could ask for CSI help from nearby areas... at least I would hope so.

I really don't know how that works? But, we do have large counties here so maybe it is geographical? Could have taken as many hours to get them there as it would for their CSI to rest?

irishkitty24

04-07-2009, 05:03 PM

I am so saddened by Sandra's death. i hoped she would be found.

The video of her skipping was heartbreaking. To go from that carefree moment to being found inside luggage is particularly heart rending.

Caylee, Haleigh, Sandra, the list goes on and on and on. What is wrong with this world where human life has no value, particularly a child's life? Have we become so desensitized that it is almost ok to do these things??!!

It is just sickening.

cutiepatootie61

04-07-2009, 05:03 PM

I just listened to the police press conf Q&A about the Baptist church in Tracy, and the Pastor. There were a lot of questions about the Pastor, and a lot of questions about the evidence, of which LE said they have a "lot" of.
http://www.tracychurch.com/pastor.html

When this story first aired I was bothered by a large man in a baseball cap and I'm wondering if it is Shade in the photo on this site. I'm not certain which they have served a warrant on but it is connected to the church from what LE said in the press conf.

They have some kind of lead, the church has crime scene tape around it.

http://www.kcra.com/video/19118454/index.html

any chance someone can recap what the above video says about the church? I have little ones home from school and they are too loud for me to hear the video. TIA

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:08 PM

any chance someone can recap what the above video says about the church? I have little ones home from school and they are too loud for me to hear the video. TIA

Start here at Post 440

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=351531&page=9

these are the posts on the PC that was in that video

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:08 PM

I really don't know how that works? But, we do have large counties here so maybe it is geographical? Could have taken as many hours to get them there as it would for their CSI to rest?

I believe the CSI team is from Sacramento (the local FBI office I am sure) Sounds like they have the best working on the job already, they just needed to make sure they stay up to the task and not miss any tiny detail.

royals02

04-07-2009, 05:09 PM

:confused: really really confused here
Earlier someone posted a link to this church and it showed a "pastor lawless"...now i see a new link the this church and it shows a "pastor heinlich" (sp)....
Which is the correct one?
According to HLN, LE has not yet "served" the search warrant...why would that be....cant they find the "pastor" to serve the warrant on?

Can someone please help me out here?

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:10 PM

I believe the CSI team is from Sacramento (the local FBI office I am sure) Sounds like they have the best working on the job already, they just needed to make sure they stay up to the task and not miss any tiny detail.

thanks em!

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:13 PM

oh here is the church, Clover Road Baptist Church, just shown on Cnn:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/

yes...that is the correct one. The Pastor lives down the street from Sandra

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 05:13 PM

Thanks, I was wondering about that. Now to search for the press conference that was supposed to take place at 10:00a.m. this morning.

You can find it here

http://www.kcra.com/index.html

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:14 PM

royals02

04-07-2009, 05:15 PM

Lawless is the Pastor. HLN said earlier that LE was searching the church....did they change that? I had to leave for a bit.

I have HLN on now and they said that the warrant had not been served yet.....I thought it was LIVE but it could be an earlier sound bite...just call me confused..lol

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:16 PM

I have HLN on now and they said that the warrant had not been served yet.....I thought it was LIVE but it could be an earlier sound bite...just call me confused..lol

Drives me crazy!! :cursing:

playnice

04-07-2009, 05:18 PM

Drives me crazy!! :cursing:

I think there is supposed to be another PC in another hour, 6:30 ET.

royals02

04-07-2009, 05:19 PM

Drives me crazy!! :cursing:

Well I had to do it...I backed up the DVR and replayed the story....on the top it says "live" and they are on the phone with det. shenehen (sp) and he definitely says they have not served the warrant yet. But still doesnt make me feel any less confused cuz I just wonder why its taking to long to serve the warrant

lune3

04-07-2009, 05:20 PM

I have HLN on now and they said that the warrant had not been served yet.....I thought it was LIVE but it could be an earlier sound bite...just call me confused..lol

I don't understand why they haven't served a search warrant yet, if it hasn't already been done. What's the hold up? It's an urgent matter. Do they have to serve it to the pastor? I'd think he would be there, ready.
With such probable cause does LE actually need a search warrant?

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:20 PM

Lawles was just named on Cnn, so this is the correct church I am examining their "doctrine" right now, red flag on their militant views of the "government" and also on the "wicked".... they follow this doctrine according to their website. NO confirmation that they searched HIS mobile home last night, but they sure did search someone's affiliated with this church last night per media.
Read On:
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/nh_conf.htm#17

A reporter for KRON reported live that neighbors in the mobile home park told him it was the Lawless home that was searched IMO

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:21 PM

Well I had to do it...I backed up the DVR and replayed the story....on the top it says "live" and they are on the phone with det. shenehen (sp) and he definitely says they have not served the warrant yet. But still doesnt make me feel any less confused cuz I just wonder why its taking to long to serve the warrant

thanks royal....so they had it wrong earlier :cursing:

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:27 PM

I have HLN on now and they said that the warrant had not been served yet.....I thought it was LIVE but it could be an earlier sound bite...just call me confused..lol

HLN seems to be a mix of live and recycled stories.. They will have breaking news on a story but then they will repeat that all afternoon.

usually by JVM we get up to date news on a case like this.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/961/reftab/36/t/Pastor-Confirms-Police-Questioned-Him-Searched-Home-in-Sandra-Cantu-Investigation/Default.aspx

They have searched the pastors home and interviewed him, he says he is co-operating and that LE seized computers,phones and other items from the home. His granddaughter played with Sandra on a regular basis.

playnice

04-07-2009, 05:27 PM

It will become A LOT more widespread if society doesn't do something radical to stop them. It's not going away on it's own. Internet has made it easier for them to hide and swap their filth. I can't even imagine any adult having such black thoughts.

ITA something needs to be done. But what? I think all pedophile should be sent to an island totally away from society.
We cant shoot em. If you and I are sitting in jail we wont be so lucky to have people send us money for pork rinds and skin care products.

royals02

04-07-2009, 05:28 PM

Good post! I agree!

What I have wanted for years is GPS chips placed in both first time SO and our children. The ones in children should be done for free and removable so as not to infringe upon their privacy once they become adults. That is if they want them removed. So even if the person who kidnaps a child does not have one, the child can still be tracked.

WOW tree....thats sounds like such an extreme radical thing to do...HOWEVER...as a parent (my kids are grown now) I would very seriously consider having it done.....anything to protect my kids. What a sorry world we live in that I or anybody else would entertain having to do something like that to protect their kids.

titanfan217

04-07-2009, 05:33 PM

I just listened to the police press conf Q&A about the Baptist church in Tracy, and the Pastor. There were a lot of questions about the Pastor, and a lot of questions about the evidence, of which LE said they have a "lot" of.
http://www.tracychurch.com/pastor.html

When this story first aired I was bothered by a large man in a baseball cap and I'm wondering if it is Shade in the photo on this site. I'm not certain which they have served a warrant on but it is connected to the church from what LE said in the press conf.

They have some kind of lead, the church has crime scene tape around it.

http://www.kcra.com/video/19118454/index.html

These aren't the names reported in an earlier news report linked here nor on HLN.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:36 PM

Disturbing guest book entries on their site. Someone says it's not him it's his grandson they are looking for, others point finger at him. One post says it was his house taped off at the mobile home park last night.

So, they are just entries on their guest forum but disturbing and copied, for now.

the news reported it was the Lawless home also per: the neighbors

playnice

04-07-2009, 05:37 PM

I wonder how old the grandson is?

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:39 PM

I wonder how old the grandson is?

From what I could find Pastor Lawless is 77....so he could be in his 20's at least IMO

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:39 PM

the news reported it was the Lawless home also per: the neighbors

It was the Lawless home per the Pastor himself (see KRON link up thread)

Interesting that Sandra played with his granddaughter- not sure who yet, Pastor,Son,Grandson but I think Sandra was right where she was headed when she skipped off- she just never left there alive.

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:44 PM

Has anyone heard anything on whether or not Sandra went to sunday school at said church, or was her mother a member? I would think she would have been catholic but not sure. They are of spanish decent so I was thinking more along the lines of Catholic but I've just not heard.

It was interesting in the one video where LE said that the persons who were early spokespersons have also not been ruled out in this case, well no one has. Who is the grandson of this Lawless "pastor" does anyone know, any myspace info yet or facebook? This just aired as I was typing it all out anyway so I dont have the grandson's name. Interesting guest book entries though from locals.

Sandra played at the Pastor's home with his granddaughter, that is more than likely the connection to the Church.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:46 PM

Do either of his Sons Brian or Brett live at the mobile home park?

intelius shows a Brian L Lawless in So Cal....relatives Clifford L Lawless

adpilove

04-07-2009, 05:47 PM

Hey guys, i've been MIA the last few hours....is there still a press conference scheduled for 3pm PST, or is 3:30pm?

I have been trying to catch up, anything pertinent I missed?

Maelstrom5

04-07-2009, 05:49 PM

Well since it is California they could ask for CSI help from nearby areas... at least I would hope so.

Why would they do that? There is no reason to do so, it would only open up a chain of custody can of worms.

CSI's are not like the actors we see on TV, they are scientists and technicians. They don't shoot it out with the bad guys and they don't interrogate a suspect. They do tests, collect data, and let others investigate the bad guys and put them in jail. Then if they have done their job meticulously they help provide the prosecutor with the scientific data necessary to get a guilty verdict.

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Hey guys, i've been MIA the last few hours....is there still a press conference scheduled for 3pm PST, or is 3:30pm?

I have been trying to catch up, anything pertinent I missed?

Yes still scheduled for 3:30 pm PT (4:30 MT,5:30 CT 6:30 ET)

irishkitty24

04-07-2009, 05:51 PM

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 05:53 PM

playnice

04-07-2009, 05:53 PM

Someone, PLEEEEAAASE, say it isnt so about the church/pastor being involved.

The image of her skipping along to a place of safety and then getting killed for it................................................ ..........................

there are no words.

We dont know he is yet. His home was searched last night but thats all we know right now. Hopefully we will get some new info in about a half hour when they hold a pc.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 05:55 PM

emdragon

04-07-2009, 05:55 PM

Someone, PLEEEEAAASE, say it isnt so about the church/pastor being involved.

The image of her skipping along to a place of safety and then getting killed for it................................................ ..........................

there are no words.

Sorry but we can't say it isn't so...It sure looks like someone in his home is responsible or at least have given LE reason to believe they are.

LE taking computers and phones as well as other things makes it seem like they are on to something.

royals02

04-07-2009, 05:55 PM

Which way did you come in?:thumbup:

Thanks Mr Lucky....I think I've got myself together now...

Anakerie

04-07-2009, 05:56 PM

doctor_J

04-07-2009, 05:57 PM

Has anyone heard anything on whether or not Sandra went to sunday school at said church, or was her mother a member? I would think she would have been catholic but not sure. They are of spanish decent so I was thinking more along the lines of Catholic but I've just not heard.

It was interesting in the one video where LE said that the persons who were early spokespersons have also not been ruled out in this case, well no one has. Who is the grandson of this Lawless "pastor" does anyone know, any myspace info yet or facebook? This just aired as I was typing it all out anyway so I dont have the grandson's name. Interesting guest book entries though from locals.

Where's this questbook, bugout? Can't find anyting on church website or google except a home page and directions.:confused:

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 05:58 PM

Sorry but we can't say it isn't so...It sure looks like someone in his home is responsible or at least have given LE reason to believe they are.

LE taking computers and phones as well as other things makes it seem like they are on to something.

You know if it is this pastor.....I will say this again.....He has been the pastor of that church since 1981......almost 30 years.......This is a very very long time to keep secrets hidden.....I cant believe that he is involved.......

playnice

04-07-2009, 06:00 PM

You know if it is this pastor.....I will say this again.....He has been the pastor of that church since 1981......almost 30 years.......This is a very very long time to keep secrets hidden.....I cant believe that he is involved.......

I hope he isnt. If he is tho, remember BTK was a deacon of the church for years and kept some horrific secrets.

Destini

04-07-2009, 06:02 PM

Coroner: Cause of death in Sandra Cantu case could take 4 to 8 weeks

San Joaquin County Coroners officials said that they have completed an autopsy on remains believed to be those of missing 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

Sheriff's department spokesman Deputy Les Garcia would not comment on any findings made during the autopsy. He said officials will wait on toxicology reports and tissue sample analysis before they rule an official cause of death. Those tests could take anywhere from four to eight weeks, he said.

http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/1762926.html?mi_rss=Latest%20News&v=twitter

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 06:04 PM

I hope he isnt. If he is tho, remember BTK was a deacon of the church for years and kept some horrific secrets.

Yeah.......I remember BTK.......This is a pastor though...Supposedly a man called by God.....Who are our children to trust?

playnice

04-07-2009, 06:06 PM

Yeah.......I remember BTK.......This is a pastor though...Supposedly a man called by God.....Who are our children to trust?

I dont know. I never would have thought anything about letting my kids or even my GK go to a preachers house to play.
they arent safe anywhere anymore.:sad:

royals02

04-07-2009, 06:06 PM

Still watching HLN here and Vinny asked the detective on the phone if they know WHEN the church will be searched....the detective's answer was "we do not".....bizarre.....unless they got all the evidence they need from the pastor's house and maybe wont need to search the church at all

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 06:07 PM

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:10 PM

That is just so sad. Imo that means she was in an advance state of decomposition and they couldn't tell how she died.

Bless this family and giving them strength to endure.

imo

I wonder if it means she was in the water/pond for the 10 days she was missing. :sad:

doctor_J

04-07-2009, 06:10 PM

I agree. I looked at his picture and didn't get any creepy vibes, beside I think it was someone living under his roof. Lots of "I think..." in this case I guess.

Where?????All I got is tiny little white boxes with even tinier x's that access nothing. What kind of stupid mistake am I making by lacking computer competence?

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 06:15 PM

I wonder if it means she was in the water/pond for the 10 days she was missing. :sad:

I do believe that she was killed within a few hours after she was taken....IMO

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:16 PM

They showed the memorial set up in honour of Sandra. It was incredible to see how many were paying their respects and placing stuffed animals, balloons, letters and flowers for this little girl. I saw one lady with her arm around a little boy about Sandra's age and I just bawled my eyes out. She should be skipping and playing with her friends. It's raining in Tracy. Tears from heaven. I'm sure.

So heartbreaking. :crying:

Kathlb

04-07-2009, 06:17 PM

I've been gone most of the day. Do we know when the second presser is this afternoon?

~jomomma~

04-07-2009, 06:18 PM

anybody have a link for the PC? tia!
not sure if HLN will cover it

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:19 PM

I've been gone most of the day. Do we know when the second presser is this afternoon?

It should be in 10 minutes, Kath.

dgfred

04-07-2009, 06:20 PM

Why would they do that? There is no reason to do so, it would only open up a chain of custody can of worms.

CSI's are not like the actors we see on TV, they are scientists and technicians. They don't shoot it out with the bad guys and they don't interrogate a suspect. They do tests, collect data, and let others investigate the bad guys and put them in jail. Then if they have done their job meticulously they help provide the prosecutor with the scientific data necessary to get a guilty verdict.

Have any of you posting about CSIs 'resting' at one of the most important stages of an investigation ever heard that said before as it was in this case? Could you give an example of a previous case?
Probably was just a stalling tactic imo by the speaker to give LE more time to get everything just right anyway. I've just never heard that before and was quite shocked. By no means do I mean CSI are doing anything wrong, jeez.

doctor_J

04-07-2009, 06:21 PM

I do believe that she was killed within a few hours after she was taken....IMO

As bad as it sounds at first, I hope she died immediately. J. Lunsford still haunts me.

They could not determine COD, sounds like. If they have to wait on toxicology then no fractured hyoid, to much decomp to see soft tissue damage (some might can be determined by tissue slides which take a few days). Not likely that she was drugged to death, but not impossible I quess. I was hoping to get a quick answer to help LE and family. More waiting for them, and probably no answer in the end (unless drugging shows up).

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:21 PM

anybody have a link for the PC? tia!
not sure if HLN will cover it

Maybe on the same link posted this morning? Unfortunately, I don't have it. Anybody?

adpilove

04-07-2009, 06:23 PM

Could someone in the area post links so we can have access? TIA

Here's what i'm going to be looking at......

http://www.fox40.com/pages/search_for_sandra

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 06:23 PM

As bad as it sounds at first, I hope she died immediately. J. Lunsford still haunts me.

They could not determine COD, sounds like. If they have to wait on toxicology then no fractured hyoid, to much decomp to see soft tissue damage (some might can be determined by tissue slides which take a few days). Not likely that she was drugged to death, but not impossible I quess. I was hoping to get a quick answer to help LE and family. More waiting for them, and probably no answer in the end (unless drugging shows up).

Or maybe they are just not saying right now........

doctor_J

04-07-2009, 06:24 PM

Have any of you posting about CSIs 'resting' at one of the most important stages of an investigation ever heard that said before as it was in this case? Could you give an example of a previous case?
Probably was just a stalling tactic imo by the speaker to give LE more time to get everything just right anyway. I've just never heard that before and was quite shocked. By no means do I mean CSI are doing anything wrong, jeez.
Please, not again. Remember they have a 4 hr. round trip commute. And they didn't just start working yesterday, it's been 10 days of evidence and long commutes and having to be on their "A" game.

~jomomma~

04-07-2009, 06:25 PM

Where?????All I got is tiny little white boxes with even tinier x's that access nothing. What kind of stupid mistake am I making by lacking computer competence?

i don't know. for some reason, all of a sudden a few days ago, that's all i get too.

~jomomma~

04-07-2009, 06:26 PM

Maybe on the same link posted this morning? Unfortunately, I don't have it. Anybody?

LOL!!! thanks :rolleyes:

thanks for the links guys!

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:26 PM

Thanks for posting the links to the live feed.

Kathlb

04-07-2009, 06:27 PM

It should be in 10 minutes, Kath.

Thanks n/t!:thumbsup:

HeatherinFL

04-07-2009, 06:30 PM

I typically only pop in here to see any updates on missing children...like little Sandra and Haliegh. My heart sank when I saw body found.
It is just too much to take...I don't understand ppl that hurt children, I just don't. It makes me physically ill...I mean, you can't even let your child out to visit a friend a few houses down-children are just NOT safe.
A very sad world we live in. :(

Rest in Peace Sandra...I pray you didn't suffer though I know that is probably not a likely scenario...one can hope!!

Thoughts to her family... :rose:

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:31 PM

LOL!!! thanks :rolleyes:

thanks for the links guys!

YW:closedeyes:

I'm not getting anything yet.

tootie

04-07-2009, 06:32 PM

Maybe there was a church bulletin in the suitcase? There had to be something in the suitcase that was linked to the church. I am so saddened to hear about her death. My prayers go out to the family and friends of Sandra.

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:34 PM

ok here we go..

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:35 PM

Pastor Lawless was questioned but he's not arrested. Just a rumour.

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:36 PM

did i miss the presser? TIA

Happening now...

http://www.news10.net/news/liveonline/

adpilove

04-07-2009, 06:37 PM

OMG, this news conference was useless!

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 06:37 PM

WOW....search warrants being sealed by the court

LE doesn't want to tip their hand?

emdragon

04-07-2009, 06:37 PM

Pastor Lawless was questioned but he's not arrested. Just a rumour.

I hadn't even heard that rumor. But KRON spoke to him and his wife on the way to the Church so I would have known he wasn't in custody.

n/t

04-07-2009, 06:37 PM

Pastor did not report suitcase missing nor the daughter. He's not a prime suspect.

Everyone they speak to is a POI. Not eliminating anyone.

CC I See

04-07-2009, 06:38 PM

I dont know. I never would have thought anything about letting my kids or even my GK go to a preachers house to play.
they arent safe anywhere anymore.:sad:

... I'm sorry to say that they never were safe. Children have been disappearing since time began. It is only now that we have the resources to hunt down the perpetrators and seek justice. Maybe society has finally reached the point that we put our foot down once and for all and demand that Pedophiles never see the light of day again.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 06:38 PM

wow that was a quick pc

it's still going,,,unless it is delayed where I am watching????

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 06:41 PM

royals02

04-07-2009, 06:42 PM

I understand this is an ongoing investigation so there is very little information that LE can divulge...now that being said...what is the point of holding press conferences to tell the public we have noting new to tell you. Why not just wait until they have info that they CAN release.

doctor_J

04-07-2009, 06:43 PM

Well that was anti-climactic. Looks and sounds like a man with too much on his plate and no time for PC's. Little impatient, can't blame him.

I'm a little surprised that they're not trying to calm the community. I quess there's no reason to be calm, a child killer is on the loose. What a nightmare, some can't even go to church for comfort (till they know why church building, parsonage, is involved. Glad he stopped rumor about pastor. Poor man, he's 77. (My sympathy does not apply if he turns out to be involved)

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 06:43 PM

I wonder if LE had trouble convincing a Judge to issue a search warrant and that is the hold up???

Dogmatic

04-07-2009, 06:45 PM

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 06:45 PM

OMG, this news conference was useless!

Maybe they are using the Putnam County book on pressers...

PBJMOM4

04-07-2009, 06:46 PM

I have both of these sites up and so far, nothing. This afternoon's pressor was supposed to be at 3:30p.m. wasn't it?

http://www.kron.com/News/WatchKRON4NewsLiveOnline/tabid/354/Default.aspx

Watch KRON 4 News with our Live Stream powered by UStream.

http://cbs13.com/sandracantu

Complete Coverage of Sandra Cantu Case, includes videos

Seems it's over and done with just that quick.

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 06:48 PM

Maybe they are using the Putnam County book on pressers...

LOL, I think they are.......

achristie

04-07-2009, 06:49 PM

Ice Cycle

04-07-2009, 06:53 PM

WOW....search warrants being sealed by the court

LE doesn't want to tip their hand?

I have been trying to keep up with this today while working. What I don't get is if their was nothing in the suitcase or on her that linked them to the church, then why search it now? Why did they not search it before?

i4doors

04-07-2009, 06:56 PM

I have been trying to keep up with this today while working. What I don't get is if their was nothing in the suitcase or on her that linked them to the church, then why search it now? Why did they not search it before?

i have been wondering the same thing!
prayers for sandra's family...rip sandra :crying:

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 06:56 PM

I have been trying to keep up with this today while working. What I don't get is if their was nothing in the suitcase or on her that linked them to the church, then why search it now? Why did they not search it before?

they did some kind of search there last night. It has been taped off by LE since then. Don't know why it is taking so long :confused:

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 06:58 PM

I have been trying to keep up with this today while working. What I don't get is if their was nothing in the suitcase or on her that linked them to the church, then why search it now? Why did they not search it before?

I can't understand why it's taking so long to search the shed..:confused:

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 06:58 PM

I swear I wrote my post above before I read your post. That is just LE, the public might as well get use to it.... They all follow the same protocol. I think the same person wrote it for all LE agencies and sent it out country wide..

I guess Orange County never got their copy:wink:

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 06:59 PM

I hope the parents in Tracy keeps their children under lock and key and in the same room with them 24/7 except for school.

I do too........I would even sleep with mine..

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Does anyone remember hearing anything about a red ribbon tied around the bag??

I heard bits and pieces but don't know much about it...

PBJMOM4

04-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Does anyone remember hearing anything about a red ribbon tied around the bag??

I heard/read that here last night, I don't have a link however.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:02 PM

Does anyone remember hearing anything about a red ribbon tied around the bag??

only when it was first discovered...but nothing since. I didn't see it on the pics of the bag (from the air)

kitty1182

04-07-2009, 07:03 PM

only when it was first discovered...but nothing since. I didn't see it on the pics of the bag (from the air)

I didn't either....

~jomomma~

04-07-2009, 07:04 PM

on JVM now

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:04 PM

I didn't either....

Thank God! I am not blind after all :smile:

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:05 PM

on JVM now

Thanks :wub:

defender123

04-07-2009, 07:09 PM

Ice Cycle

04-07-2009, 07:10 PM

they did some kind of search there last night. It has been taped off by LE since then. Don't know why it is taking so long :confused:

Yes I know they taped it off last night or today but why then and not days ago, yet according to LE at the
press/c nothing in the suitcase linked it to the church. Something not right about that.

achristie

04-07-2009, 07:17 PM

They are dam* if they do and the same if they don't....

True. I'm impatient for the updates but really don't think it's necessary to hold a presser if they have nothing new to add. Maybe they just followed through as promised? I do think they have leads and it won't be long before an arrest.

MOO Aggie

FrankieBones1

04-07-2009, 07:22 PM

Maybe they are using the Putnam County book on pressers...

Sure would be nice if Orlando LE could give them a hand with handling the media and public. Good thing the entire State of Florida isn't tight lipped.

FrankieBones1

04-07-2009, 07:25 PM

In the photos of the suitcase in the retention pond yesterday I thought the bottom part of the suitcase had been in water, but today I see it's resting right on the bottom of the irrigation pond. So the whole suitcase was visible.

It looked heavy when the 4 people carried it to the coroner's van. I thought then it had to have been weighted with something. A decomposing body with all it's gases would not stay down. And we know this suitcase containing her body wasn't floating. It was on the bottom and unseen until the pond was drained to irrigate the crops yesterday a.m.

The farm hands said that the suitcase rose to the top as the water drained. But yes, gases would certainly make it bouant if it weren't weighted down enough.

Sweetly

04-07-2009, 07:29 PM

The farm hands said that the suitcase rose to the top as the water drained. But yes, gases would certainly make it bouant if it weren't weighted down enough.

I thank God this pond was needed and emptied. Who knows how long that suitcase would have been submerged! It just breaks my heart to see her joyfully skipping along, going to her friends house in the one video and then see that suitcase. Why do people do such wicked n hurtful things. Just why? We have lost another lovely little person and my heart just aches....

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:31 PM

Hey guys anything new have they had the second presser yet..news on church..??TIA

CC I See

04-07-2009, 07:32 PM

See? don Clark on JVM is saying often times these perps will redress their victims. my words. He said will try to make things as they were; when asked what her being clothed said to him. He said it's not necessarily an indication she didn't suffer horrifficly. paraphrase

I have read of cases where murderers re-dressed their victims. Just a fact.

Someone said last night the fact she had her clothes on told her something about the crime committed and I disagree. I agree with Don Clark. At this point they may never be able to tell if she was molested. The crime may end up being kidnapping and murder.

Even though she may have been molested, they have to be able to prove it and all I'm saying is they may not be able to prove that particular crime.

I think there will still be enough soft tissue to figure out if she was raped and the resulting forensics left even after being submerged. It would not have washed away inside her clothes and inside the bag.

As for being dressed. Sandra could have dressed herself after being assaulted with the promise to let her go if she would not tell. Then the perpetrator changed his mind and killed her. She also could have been kept alive for some time after being abducted like Jessica Lunsford.

The person who did this needs the death penalty as quickly as it can be arranged.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:33 PM

hanna montana flip flops still on her??On JVM had not heard that.:confused:

BorderCollieMom

04-07-2009, 07:39 PM

You can bet if it is the ministers house..There is awhole lot more victims..But they are still alive..
I wonder if grampas van being vandilized was a warning to shut the kids up....And the cats dissappearing..????HMHM
Thats how they opperate to keep the kids quiet..

Since LE started investigating this case, theyve "found out" approx. 60 people involved in Child Porn Trafficking there in the Tracy area.....not sure the pastor is one of those 60. Not even sure if Sandras killer is 1 of the 60. They said publicly that there are Tracy Child Victims.

They need to prosecute "The Tracy 60" asap before they all take off.

Protect.org

Dietcokefan

04-07-2009, 07:39 PM

The fact that the suitcase was found in this drainage pond indicates to me that this was committed by someone who knew the area, or is local...IMO

BorderCollieMom

04-07-2009, 07:40 PM

hanna montana flip flops still on her??On JVM had not heard that.:confused:

Thats interesting.

BorderCollieMom

04-07-2009, 07:43 PM

I think it was weighted otherwise it would've risen sooner even if the pond haden't been drained. Just my opinion. Granted I could be wrong.

I thought it was still in a little water in the photos yesterday, but looking at them again today at KRON news site I see it's sitting right in the mud.

It didnt look to me like there was alot of water in there to begin with. You could see the water lines.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:44 PM

It didnt look to me like there was alot of water in there to begin with. You could see the water lines.

IIRC they were draining it....

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:45 PM

See? don Clark on JVM is saying often times these perps will redress their victims. my words. He said will try to make things as they were; when asked what her being clothed said to him. He said it's not necessarily an indication she didn't suffer horrifficly. paraphrase

I have read of cases where murderers re-dressed their victims. Just a fact.

Someone said last night the fact she had her clothes on told her something about the crime committed and I disagree. I agree with Don Clark. At this point they may never be able to tell if she was molested. The crime may end up being kidnapping and murder.

Even though she may have been molested, they have to be able to prove it and all I'm saying is they may not be able to prove that particular crime.

Darn I missed don Clark just woke up hoped to hear a press conf had or was coming up..so far reading I dont see anything..what are you saying you think she had been molested for sometime? or just wont be able to tell because of the water hopefully there will be enough soft tissue they can tell if she had any tramua do to being sexually molested...let us pray she didnt..I am shocked if she still had on those flip flops they looked to be way to big on her in the video..

LILMANMAX

04-07-2009, 07:48 PM

I heard her Mother collapsed and was hospitalized after being told.
This must be the worse news a parent can hear.
My heart and prayers go out to her.

May they quickly find the sicko responsible for this.
I have a bad feeling about this case.
I really believe the police may uncover much more disturbing news than we expect when all is said and done.

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 07:50 PM

In the photos of the suitcase in the retention pond yesterday I thought the bottom part of the suitcase had been in water, but today I see it's resting right on the bottom of the irrigation pond. So the whole suitcase was visible.

It looked heavy when the 4 people carried it to the coroner's van. I thought then it had to have been weighted with something. A decomposing body with all it's gases would not stay down. And we know this suitcase containing her body wasn't floating. It was on the bottom and unseen until the pond was drained to irrigate the crops yesterday a.m.

Yes it was according to reports:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MNR116U792.DTL

(04-07) 04:00 PDT Tracy --

The body of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu was found in a suitcase floating in an irrigation pond near her home here Monday, ending a massive hunt for the lively little girl whose disappearance 10 days earlier touched hearts throughout Northern California.

The farm workers pulled it to the side and it stayed there waiting for LE.

MOO

adpilove

04-07-2009, 07:51 PM

What is LVM??

I'm lame, I know.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:51 PM

It didnt look to me like there was alot of water in there to begin with. You could see the water lines.

From what I heard they were in the milddle of draining it when it came to the surface..I saw one pic that looked like more water in it then the one when it was to the edge..so not sure if they finished draining it after they called LE not sure at first they said the workers pulled it to the side but have not heard that since...:confused:

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:51 PM

Yes it was according to reports:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MNR116U792.DTL

(04-07) 04:00 PDT Tracy --

The body of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu was found in a suitcase floating in an irrigation pond near her home here Monday, ending a massive hunt for the lively little girl whose disappearance 10 days earlier touched hearts throughout Northern California.

The farm workers pulled it to the side and it stayed there waiting for LE.

MOO

Bold mine..

God bless them for that!

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 07:52 PM

What is LVM??

I'm lame, I know.

JVM is Jane Velez Mitchell. She has a show ISSUES on HeadLine News channel.

KKKKKKatie

04-07-2009, 07:52 PM

What is LVM??

I'm lame, I know.

JVM Jane Veleze Mitchel Show

ETA: Thank you River...I see I butchered the spelling of her name lol

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:53 PM

What is LVM??

I'm lame, I know.

you mean JVM

Jane V. Mitchell on HLN

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 07:55 PM

JVM is Jane Velez Mitchell. She has a show ISSUES on HeadLine News channel.

Hi Riverwalk
have not seen you on or maybe I was just not on..lol

sunstar

04-07-2009, 07:57 PM

Listen to/watch the video of this afternoon's press conference to hear for yourself what the LE official said. JVM twisted it big time.

http://www.kron.com/

Police say no arrest made in Sandra Cantu murder at Tuesday afternoon press conference.

Click on the above header in the menu at right at the above link.

thanks so much for the link. :smile: I missed the news conference (driving home from work).

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 07:59 PM

Bold mine..

God bless them for that!

Yep.

A body will surface after 7-10 days depending on body fat/water temperatures/outside air temperature/wind or current, etc.

Sandra "surfacing" is right on point. A water logged suit case will not just start to "float". IMO Sandra had been there since day 1 ... between 4PM (last know sighting) and 8 PM when her mom reported her missing.

Interesting to note: if we go back to watching the first video (from the ponds) we saw photographs being taken, LE marking the wood line, marking what could have been footprints, drag prints, suitcase prints, tire prints, etc. The woodline marking/and going in there concerns me. I wonder IF her life ended there and then thrown in the pond? Ugh. So many sad things to ponder.

RIP Sandra and God bless your family.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:00 PM

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 08:00 PM

Hi Riverwalk
have not seen you on or maybe I was just not on..lol

I left for a period of time. Needed to just collect my thoughts and get a handle on this tragic murder.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:05 PM

Yep.

A body will surface after 7-10 days depending on body fat/water temperatures/outside air temperature/wind or current, etc.

Sandra "surfacing" is right on point. A water logged suit case will not just start to "float". IMO Sandra had been there since day 1 ... between 4PM (last know sighting) and 8 PM when her mom reported her missing.

Interesting to note: if we go back to watching the first video (from the ponds) we saw photographs being taken, LE marking the wood line, marking what could have been footprints, drag prints, suitcase prints, tire prints, etc. The woodline marking/and going in there concerns me. I wonder IF her life ended there and then thrown in the pond? Ugh. So many sad things to ponder.

RIP Sandra and God bless your family.

you think they will be able to rule out any searchers or workers prints and tire marks since it had been searched this weekend and prior to that? the dragging if it had rollers on it I can see them finding that.
has it rained there since the 27th anyone know..I am just not sure they will get much from tire marks since so many could be there and footprints since they just had searchers out there plus the workers...heck I don't know I sure hope they can..guess they better watch for people throwing shoes away and getting new tires in the past week...

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:06 PM

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:08 PM

Nancy Grace is talking about Sandra. She's talking about police & FBI searching the church, questioning pastor; NG is talking with a reporter giving background of how her remains were found.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:08 PM

I left for a period of time. Needed to just collect my thoughts and get a handle on this tragic murder.

I am sorry I know it was hard and knew I had not seen you. so sad I think a few of us had to go take a walk last night after the shock of hearing this horrible news,.:crying:

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Nancy Grace is talking about Sandra. She's talking about police & FBI searching the church, questioning pastor; NG is talking with a reporter giving background of how her remains were found.

shoot I turned it to biggest loser..I usually do not watch her till later since she is on 3 times a night and figured it would be about casey anthony..

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:14 PM

shoot I turned it to biggest loser..I usually do not watch her till later since she is on 3 times a night and figured it would be about casey anthony..

She started out about Casey then switched to Sandra. I'm glad she's doing this ~ it's more important right now, imo, than the documents released yesterday! She'll probably go back to Casey later on.

merical

04-07-2009, 08:14 PM

I don't know how anything could be so devastating as this. Yes someone posted this link this morning. An interesting read. What bad feeling do you have about this? You think whoever did this crime may have committed others? I wouldn't be surprised.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/april062009/child_porn_connect_4-6-09.php

Child Porn Traffickers Cited in Missing Child Search

Let me first state that I am by no means making the assumption that the pastor did this. I don't know how he or the church may have been linked to Sandra's death. However, just because no victims have ever been linked to him in the past, does not mean he (or Portifino or whoever else was listed at that address) hasn't done anything wrong. Maybe the perp was just never caught before.

There are quite a few missing little girls in N. California, that have been classified as stranger abuctions. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone at that address has any connection to other locations, such as Lake Tahoe (where Jaycee Dugard went missing), Hayward (where Michaela Garrect went missing), Fairfield (where Amanda Campbell went missing), Dublin (where Ilene Mischeloff went missing), Pinole (where Amber Schwartz Garcia went missing)...the list isn't complete but it makes you wonder. It really does make you wonder. Granted these mostly took place in the 90s, but I still can't help but wonder.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:16 PM

I wonder if they're investigating more than Sandra's murder. I get a feeling they're going for a sweep. The amount of search warrants is unbelievable. IIRC, they searched 6 homes, taken cars and now the Church. Something big is going on over there.

I'm really starting to wonder if Sandra told someone what she may have known about the child porn and she ended up getting murdered because of it.

I remember reading how bad the child porn was there they even have someone who gets on line to track them down they pass it back and forth between them over the net..yuck nasty people ughh:cursing:
I do agree a lot of warrants and a lot going on seems they do know something..jmo

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/april062009/child_porn_connect_4-6-09.php

Now, according to the Tracy Press, investigators in the case say they are looking at 60 individuals in the Tracy area who have been identified trafficking in child pornography, along with 78 "registered" sex offenders.

It is believed to be the first time in the U.S. that police have publicly acknowledged the huge population of known but not arrested child pornography suspects in a missing child case.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:17 PM

Well that didn't last long. NG is back to talking about Casey. :sad:

Gael Force 1

04-07-2009, 08:17 PM

The child is already dead. I would want to do what was best for finding the evidence to put the killer away for life. Which would be get a little sleep, have a sandwich and large coffee and get back to work. Sounds like that's what they are doing.

Hours and sometimes minutes make a huge difference. Just as waiting 6 days to run the Amber alert was most likely the difference between finding this girl alive, taking even a 4 hour break gives the perp time to potentiallly get out of state, strike again, or destroy evidence.

The department had no sense of urgency since this whole thing started and they still don't.

Were it my child that died due to their indifference, I would make them all regret their actions; but then again, my child would never be allowed to roam around a trailer park for hours on end unsupervised. I certainly would not have left the police station until either an amber alert was issued or they had thrown me in jail.

Kelly3820

04-07-2009, 08:19 PM

Godspeed Sandra!!!!!!!

playnice

04-07-2009, 08:19 PM

She started out about Casey then switched to Sandra. I'm glad she's doing this ~ it's more important right now, imo, than the documents released yesterday! She'll probably go back to Casey later on.

More like sooner. I mean no disrespect to little Caylee what so ever but she has been found and her perp in jail. I wish NG would spend more time on other missing children and just use Casey for a filler now. If it has to be Casey every night Im glad she finally got some new video to play.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:21 PM

More like sooner. I mean no disrespect to little Caylee what so ever but she has been found and her perp in jail. I wish NG would spend more time on other missing children and just use Casey for a filler now. If it has to be Casey every night Im glad she finally got some new video to play.

I so agree with you. This is a breaking case where the perp hasn't been arrested yet.

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:21 PM

WOW....search warrants being sealed by the court

LE doesn't want to tip their hand?

If the Judge is willing to seal these Search Warrants then LE knows the key to solving this crime is in that church imo.

They said the warrant has already been issued. Seems like they expect to be there a long time once they enter.

imo

Alice

04-07-2009, 08:24 PM

That's a problem. No one can be "forced" to take medications...even if they are something that keeps them on an even keel. Even if it was made a condition of their parole or release, or whatever, I am sure groups like ACLU would find a way to carp about it. Maybe, the only way some of this would get changed would be for a child related to a top official of such organizations to befall such a tragedy. Not that I would want to wish that on any child, of course. But bet the tune would be changing.

People with mental illnesses can be, and many times are, court ordered to take medications, if they are under a commitment order due to being a clear danger to oneself or others. Sometimes it is necessary for them to be on an injectable anti-psychotic due to non-compliance with medication. So even when they are living in the community, they must be under regular supervision by a psychiatrist (as well as other mental health professionals) to see that they return as needed for their injections and to have any necessary blood levels taken. If the patient does not return as ordered by the court to receive their injection, or is unavailable when the person comes to administer it, then they can be forced to return to the hospital for inpatient care based on their commitment papers.

It seems that something of this nature could be set up for sex offenders as well, if it were to become law and such treatment made mandatory.

playnice

04-07-2009, 08:24 PM

If the Judge is willing to seal these Search Warrants then LE knows the key to solving this crime is in that church imo.

They said the warrant has already been issued. Seems like they expect to be there a long time once they enter.

imo

If a public figure is involved would they seal the warrants to possibly prevent a lynch mob until they are ready to make an arrest?

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:25 PM

Let me first state that I am by no means making the assumption that the pastor did this. I don't know how he or the church may have been linked to Sandra's death. However, just because no victims have ever been linked to him in the past, does not mean he (or Portifino or whoever else was listed at that address) hasn't done anything wrong. Maybe the perp was just never caught before.

There are quite a few missing little girls in N. California, that have been classified as stranger abuctions. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone at that address has any connection to other locations, such as Lake Tahoe (where Jaycee Dugard went missing), Hayward (where Michaela Garrect went missing), Fairfield (where Amanda Campbell went missing), Dublin (where Ilene Mischeloff went missing), Pinole (where Amber Schwartz Garcia went missing)...the list isn't complete but it makes you wonder. It really does make you wonder. Granted these mostly took place in the 90s, but I still can't help but wonder.

Portifino??is this the name I found today or something else..and I agree we just do not know yet what happened..so I am not ruling out anything yet..

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 08:26 PM

Yes and the very next paragraph at your link says it floated as they were draining the pond

I typed And we know this suitcase containing her body wasn't floating.

should have said; And we know this suitcase containing her body wasn't floating for two weeks.

I guess the suitcase could have floated for 2 weeks in that pond, but I doubt it. It just seems to me a body would float from gases before much time passed. Not claiming to be right but it's what I think based on other cases I've read about.

I guess the real question is how long was she there? (within the 2 wk amt of time).

The body just started floating - IMO. The suitcase/body was found floating. Bodies will start to float if not weighted down by other means. Day 10 "fits". IMO.

Here's a link about "some" of that
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:iNCnCtF_PdQJ:www.twinquarries.com/nurri/body_float_info.pdf+body+floats&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:27 PM

Hours and sometimes minutes make a huge difference. Just as waiting 6 days to run the Amber alert was most likely the difference between finding this girl alive, taking even a 4 hour break gives the perp time to potentially get out of state, strike again, or destroy evidence.

The department had no sense of urgency since this whole thing started and they still don't.

Were it my child that died due to their indifference, I would make them all regret their actions; but then again, my child would never be allowed to roam around a trailer park for hours on end unsupervised. I certainly would not have left the police station until either an amber alert was issued or they had thrown me in jail.

From what I have read according to the law in California an Amber Alert can only be activated if they know a description of the vehicle.

I think they have been methodical and have put in long hard hours.

I don't fear that the perp is going to get away. I think they have them in their sights and probably have for a few days now.

I think the perp has fear and knows they are getting closer and closer. I think the perp also knows they are watching him/them like a hawk.

imo

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:28 PM

Hours and sometimes minutes make a huge difference. Just as waiting 6 days to run the Amber alert was most likely the difference between finding this girl alive, taking even a 4 hour break gives the perp time to potentiallly get out of state, strike again, or destroy evidence.

The department had no sense of urgency since this whole thing started and they still don't.

Were it my child that died due to their indifference, I would make them all regret their actions; but then again, my child would never be allowed to roam around a trailer park for hours on end unsupervised. I certainly would not have left the police station until either an amber alert was issued or they had thrown me in jail.

In my opinion, I didn't sense that they were indifferent but I think something happened to make them lose focus/track.... perhaps they thought they were onto something but discovered something else which may or may not have had anything to do with Sandra's disappearance at the time. KWIM?

I always got the sense that they were about to arrest someone and they were close to finding Sandra and then it turned out to not be the case. I actually had hope that LE would find her alive. Maybe they did too.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:28 PM

If a public figure is involved would they seal the warrants to possibly prevent a lynch mob until they are ready to make an arrest?

ok so they still have not searched that church or shed??since last night they have had it taped off why has it still not been searched..I guess I am lost

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:29 PM

The body just started floating - IMO. The suitcase/body was found floating. Bodies will start to float if not weighted down by other means. Day 10 "fits". IMO.

Here's a link about "some" of that
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:iNCnCtF_PdQJ:www.twinquarries.com/nurri/body_float_info.pdf+body+floats&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

I agree. I think Sandra was killed the day she went missing and was dumped into the irrigation pond shortly thereafter.

imo

Gael Force 1

04-07-2009, 08:31 PM

From what I have read according to the law in California an Amber Alert can only be activated if they know a description of the vehicle.

I think they have been methodical and have put in long hard hours.

I don't fear that the perp is going to get away. I think they have them in their sights and probably have for a few days now.

I think the perp has fear and knows they are getting closer and closer. I think the perp also knows they are watching him/them like a hawk.

imo

AMBER ALERT Guidelines

-AMBER ALERT may be activated only by law enforcement agencies.
-AMBER ALERT is intended only for the most serious, time-critical child abduction cases.
-AMBER ALERT is not intended for cases involving runaways or parental abduction, except in life-threatening situations.

Criteria for activating an AMBER ALERT

Law enforcement agencies ensure these conditions are met before activating an AMBER ALERT:

-The investigating law enforcement agency confirms an abduction has occurred.
-The victim is 17 years of age or younger, or has a proven mental or physical disability.
-The victim is in imminent danger of serious injury or death.
-There is information available that, if provided to the public, could assist in the child's safe recovery.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/amber/index.html

8 year olds don't simply wander off...

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:33 PM

ok so they still have not searched that church or shed??since last night they have had it taped off why has it still not been searched..I guess I am lost

Me too, mom. This is all too bizarre. It always seems like they're onto something and then we're left asking what happened. Do you get that same feeling? It's been the same 'ole since the beginning. They take people in for questioning, houses searched, cars searched , names revealed to the public but no arrests. What's going on?:confused:

Gael Force 1

04-07-2009, 08:33 PM

I agree. I think Sandra was killed the day she went missing and was dumped into the irrigation pond shortly thereafter.

imo

I may be wrong, but I believe I read this pond was bone dry 12-14 days ago, wonder how fast it fills up...

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:35 PM

If a public figure is involved would they seal the warrants to possibly prevent a lynch mob until they are ready to make an arrest?

That could be one reason but I think they want to keep the evidence that they found that has led them to this church under wraps.

They may also think it may be just too graphic to be put out in the media and for the family to have to cope with at this time.

Usually the Judge will seal them for 10 days and then address the matter again. Many times until the suspect is arrested the DA will ask that the particulars of some SWs remain unknown to the public and the killer, themselves.

imo

Deb7

04-07-2009, 08:36 PM

Where's this questbook, bugout? Can't find anyting on church website or google except a home page and directions.:confused:

Hi DoctorJ,

I just finished reading the comments left at that guestbook. Some not so nice to say the least.

Here is a direct link to the guestbook, so you don't have to look around on the site for a link.
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/guest_book.htm

You have to scroll down a bit to get to today's date if you are interested in reading any of it.
JMO

merical

04-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Portifino??is this the name I found today or something else..and I agree we just do not know yet what happened..so I am not ruling out anything yet..

Yes, was that you? The guy was listed as living at the Lawless address. I was just using that name as a suggestion that somebody related to that address might be related to other missing children.

Let me add, I don't want to say the wrong thing, that I'm not pointing the finger at a specific person. Come to think of it, it would be interesting to know if any POI has a connection to those locations.

Hope I didn't overstep. I just hope everything is being looked at.

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:40 PM

That could be one reason but I think they want to keep the evidence that they found that has led them to this church under wraps.

They may also think it may be just too graphic to be put out in the media and for the family to have to cope with at this time.

Usually the Judge will seal them for 10 days and then address the matter again. Many times until the suspect is arrested the DA will ask that the particulars of some SWs remains unknown.

imo

Heck the perp can be gone by the time they get the necessary paperwork in order. I also don't understand their statements saying everyone is a POI at this time but yet no arrests. So whoever did this to Sandra could run and never be seen again.

What are they waiting for? They either have a suspect (s) or they don't.

Tia

04-07-2009, 08:41 PM

Hi DoctorJ,

I just finished reading the comments left at that guestbook. Some not so nice to say the least.

Here is a direct link to the guestbook, so you don't have to look around on the site for a link.
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/guest_book.htm

You have to scroll down a bit to get to today's date if you are interested in reading any of it.
JMO

Thanks for the link.

Looks like the Pastor is being torn to shreds. Disturbing reading.

CC I See

04-07-2009, 08:42 PM

Have they stopped to think that other children may be at risk if there is a child porn ring involvement here and these children could testify against them?

Taking their time may be a poor way of handling this case... yes, I know they are the ones with the experience and I'm don't but it makes no sense to delay by waiting for the evidence to come in.

If they had waited like this John Couey would have been long gone after killing Jessica Lunsford... and the fact that she was still alive when they went searching for her is tragic.

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 08:42 PM

I may be wrong, but I believe I read this pond was bone dry 12-14 days ago, wonder how fast it fills up...

http://cbs13.com/local/tracy.pond.tony.2.978107.html

the farm workers had heard of the search for Sandra, and the farm owner immediately called authorities. The owner said that the pond had been empty two weeks ago, and when they filled it with water, there was no suitcase in the area.

:sad:

playnice

04-07-2009, 08:44 PM

Thanks for the link.

Looks like the Pastor is being torn to shreds. Disturbing reading.

Someone did ask a good question there. Was he involved in any outreach ministries with SO, drugies etc? If there is a link back to the church which sure seems to be it doesnt necessarily mean the pastor did it.

Tia

04-07-2009, 08:44 PM

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:45 PM

I may be wrong, but I believe I read this pond was bone dry 12-14 days ago, wonder how fast it fills up...

It would be according to how big of pump they were using and how many gallons of water this irrigation pond holds. Also what size well it had.

Maybe 2 or 3 days or more. Or at least enough that it had plenty of water in it by then and it would still be filling up until it reached maximum capacity that the farmer wanted it to rise to before he needed to irrigate the fields.

imo

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:47 PM

From what I have read according to the law in California an Amber Alert can only be activated if they know a description of the vehicle.

I think they have been methodical and have put in long hard hours.

I don't fear that the perp is going to get away. I think they have them in their sights and probably have for a few days now.

I think the perp has fear and knows they are getting closer and closer. I think the perp also knows they are watching him/them like a hawk.

imo

Best thing that happened is the FBI got in on this..
Tracy PD did drop the ball in the most crucial hours sending out wrong fax numbers to media and LE not speaking to some SO until the next day 24 hours one of the sickos even said it on camera.putting out the picture that did not even look like her imo and not pointing out the mole on her face or releasing of the video for a week because they thought she had a backpack on WHY would that matter then would not say were it came from or what angle is was thanks to the family we know it came from their cameras....then they said this was a learning experience for them umm no this is a child..but IMO she was not alive anyway and they can change the laws to have all the info they can such as clothing hair color race of a child on those amber alert signs Don Clark said they do in a lot of states I think he said TX does already..most kids are dead with in 3 hours of being taken and found within 2 or 3 miles of their home...I have faith LE knew they made bad mistakes and they are on to something or sure hope so..there is always the what if's and I was at least happy they admitted to what they did wrong most do not...also the family SP should have made sure to say she had the mole and the hair color was not the same..but as we all know it is to late for all that so now it is getting JUSTICE..and I really think someone will pay for this horrrible crime..

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:49 PM

Right it's irrigation water. Size of them depends on the size and types of crops the farmer wants to irrigate. I don't think any of them are particularly deep altho I'm no expert.

The sergeant said it was a dairy farm pond, so that might be a clue. :shrug:

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:50 PM

http://cbs13.com/local/tracy.pond.tony.2.978107.html

the farm workers had heard of the search for Sandra, and the farm owner immediately called authorities. The owner said that the pond had been empty two weeks ago, and when they filled it with water, there was no suitcase in the area.

:sad:

It sounds like the perp was very familiar with the area and what was going on at the farm.

playnice

04-07-2009, 08:52 PM

It sounds like the perp was very familiar with the area and what was going on at the farm.

It does.
Breaking News. NG bought 100 boxes of Girl Scout Cookies.

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 08:52 PM

It sounds like the perp was very familiar with the area and what was going on at the farm.

IA, the prep(s) knew = local(s) but NOT the farm workers. I really don't want to "go" there.

MOO

IlliniFan

04-07-2009, 08:53 PM

It sounds like the perp was very familiar with the area and what was going on at the farm.

IIRC, Sgt. Tony Sheneman said something to the effect that he had lived in the area for many years and was unaware the irrigation ditches were there.....imo

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 08:54 PM

Heck the perp can be gone by the time they get the necessary paperwork in order. I also don't understand their statements saying everyone is a POI at this time but yet no arrests. So whoever did this to Sandra could run and never be seen again.

What are they waiting for? They either have a suspect (s) or they don't.

I am not worried n/t. I think they would like to see the perp try to flee, then they could use that against him too at trial. I think they are fully cognizant of where everybody they are interested in is at all times.

They are not going to rush this case. With all the police presence I don't think anyone else is in danger at this time.

Whatever is in that church is monumental and like one of the T/Hs said today to be able to get a SW on a church means that they HAVE TO have plenty darn probable cause to do so.

I don't want them to rush this case. I want them to take their time and do it right so when this POS goes to trial the conviction is going to stick like hot boiling glue.

imoo

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 08:54 PM

It does.
Breaking News. NG bought 100 boxes of Girl Scout Cookies.

Thats a bombshell

bama__angel

04-07-2009, 08:55 PM

IA, the prep(s) knew = local(s) but NOT the farm workers. I really don't want to "go" there.

MOO

ITA.....and Sandra knew the person who took her also......I would imagine she trusted him.......This makes me sick to my stomach...And it makes me so angry and it scares me ..God bless you babygirl and your family.......

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:55 PM

I would imagine thats why the neighbors are angry that LE is not giving them any answers. IMO, LE has a suspect, they just aren't telling us. At least that is what I am hoping!!

JMO

I can't imagine what the poor parents are going through. I don't think I'd let my kids out of my sight for a second until I knew the perp was captured. What a nightmare.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 08:56 PM

Yes, was that you? The guy was listed as living at the Lawless address. I was just using that name as a suggestion that somebody related to that address might be related to other missing children.

Let me add, I don't want to say the wrong thing, that I'm not pointing the finger at a specific person. Come to think of it, it would be interesting to know if any POI has a connection to those locations.

Hope I didn't overstep. I just hope everything is being looked at.

yes I posted it earlier we thought maybe it was a outdated address so never thought anymore about it..I agree everything and everyone needs to be looked at..

playnice

04-07-2009, 08:57 PM

ITA.....and Sandra knew the person who took her also......I would imagine she trusted him.......This makes me sick to my stomach...And it makes me so angry and it scares me ..God bless you babygirl and your family.......

I think she knew the perp too and skipped right into this situation never believing this person would hurt her.

n/t

04-07-2009, 08:58 PM

IIRC, Sgt. Tony Sheneman said something to the effect that he had lived in the area for many years and was unaware the irrigation ditches were there.....imo

Yup...I believe he said he's lived there for 12 years so I stand by what I said that someone knew exactly when that pond was going to be filled and emptied. I'm getting this sick feeling that the perp could be long gone by now.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:58 PM

IA, the prep(s) knew = local(s) but NOT the farm workers. I really don't want to "go" there.

MOO

I don't think the farm laborers had anything to do with her murder either. One thing that doesn't quite make sense to me though is, if the perp(s) knew how often the pond was drained, and Sandra's death being just over a week ago, why would they purposely put the bag into it knowing it would soon be drained again?

sunstar

04-07-2009, 08:59 PM

I think she knew the perp too and skipped right into this situation never believing this person would hurt her.

I think the clue is right there in the video when she turns her head. Either somebody called over to her, or she was distracted by somebody. If only we could've seen who/what she was looking at. :sad:

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:00 PM

n/t

04-07-2009, 09:01 PM

I think the clue is right there in the video when she turns her head. Either somebody called over to her, or she was distracted by somebody. If only we could've seen who/what she was looking at. :sad:

That was her porch.

Riverwalk!

04-07-2009, 09:01 PM

ITA.....and Sandra knew the person who took her also......I would imagine she trusted him.......This makes me sick to my stomach...And it makes me so angry and it scares me ..God bless you babygirl and your family.......

Yep. She trusted him or them. They or he was her friend. IMO. He/They took her between 4 pm and 8 pm on the day she went poof.

MOO and it should scare the beejebers out of the local community. They have a killer among them and he/they walk among them/neighborhood.

Night folks.

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 09:01 PM

I'm not familiar with sealed warrants. Are the results of what was obtained through the warrants what is sealed, or are they not saying who the warrants are against, or any of the above, or none of the above, or.......:confused:

All of the above.

The entire SW is sealed.

This happened in the Lauterbach case. Once Lauren was found in Mexico and picked up by police then the media petitioned to have the SW unsealed.

They have to have a very good reason for doing so. It is not a common practice for a Judge to seal SWs but it does happen sometimes for various reasons.

Usually to protect the investigation especially if no suspect has been arrested yet.

imo

IlliniFan

04-07-2009, 09:04 PM

Yup...I believe he said he's lived there for 12 years so I stand by what I said that someone knew exactly when that pond was going to be filled and emptied. I'm getting this sick feeling that the perp could be long gone by now.

You could be right. The perp had to have a vehicle. If they knew the ditch was going to be drained soon, it's hard telling where they might be...Also, whether this is intentional, the Det. has used the plural form several times when referencing the reponsible party...

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:04 PM

Yup...I believe he said he's lived there for 12 years so I stand by what I said that someone knew exactly when that pond was going to be filled and emptied. I'm getting this sick feeling that the perp could be long gone by now.

yes he did say he had never been out there and been in the area for 12yrs he said he would have thought someone knew it was there I pulled it up it is a straight shot from her home..and then a turn but looked to have a few houses or building very close to were you would have to pull in so dont know if someone would pull a car up to the water or not..

Sweetly

04-07-2009, 09:04 PM

I don't think the farm laborers had anything to do with her murder either. One thing that doesn't quite make sense to me though is, if the perp(s) knew how often the pond was drained, and Sandra's death being just over a week ago, why would they purposely put the bag into it knowing it would soon be drained again?

Actually, on NG tonite the same guy that gave the presser earlier today said that the pond was for dairy and cattle waste, etc., in it, from the dairy.

Deb7

04-07-2009, 09:06 PM

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:06 PM

You could be right. The perp had to have a vehicle. If they knew the ditch was going to be drained soon, it's hard telling where they might be...Also, whether this is intentional, the Det. has used the plural form several times when referencing the reponsible party...

noticed that also

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 09:07 PM

I think it's so wrong for people to do that. For one thing the person may be innocent of any wrongdoing. If he's not, the legal system is the only civilized way to proceed. Besides, how inappropriate for people to be writing hateful things in a guest book intended for condolences to the family.

I agree, Adalena. I am always taken aback when some people spew such garbage at someone on their personal site and they don't even know if they are guilty of anything or not. Seems fanatical and extreme to me.

The Pastor may turn over these threats to LE and now it is easy to find out their ISP.

It may be a member of his family. It may be someone he is letting stay there or they may have thought she came there since she played with the Pastor's granddaughter.

They willing gave their computer up to LE, so I hope that he had nothing to do with Sandra being murdered.

Isn't this pastor around 65 years of age or older?

imo

~jomomma~

04-07-2009, 09:07 PM

i keep thinking about the video showing LE checking the trunks of cars going out of the trailer park. i remember while watching it, thinking they weren't looking REAL close in some of them. they'd open, peek in and close it.

:sad:

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:08 PM

That is NOT a guestbook for the family condolences, that is Pastor Lawless' regular church website guestbook. Just thought I would let you know.

JMO

OK now I see why thought it was for the family..and sure did not want them reading the stuff..

Mamie

04-07-2009, 09:09 PM

CNN has an article up about the poor child...
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/07/california.missing.girl.dead/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

I'm in Northern California, about 2 or 2 1/2 hours from Tracy and it's all over the Sacramento TV stations and papers...

http://www.kcra.com/news/19115079/detail.html

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57432&catid=2

http://cbs13.com/local/tracy.pond.tony.2.978737.html

Coroner: Cause of death in Sandra Cantu case could take 4 to 8 weeks
http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/1762926.html

I just hope that the authorities find the perp and lock him away.... FAST!!!!

Today, I saw a truck with Sandra's picture on the trailer door and I thought about what a good person either the truck driver is or his boss to put the picture back there of her so that more people would see it. But at the same time I wondered about the press conference LE gave yesterday that I saw about them finding a container. It was that container, right?

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:09 PM

That was her porch.

I thought she also turned her head the opposite direction, like back toward the side of the street she was coming from?

emdragon

04-07-2009, 09:12 PM

I agree, Adalena. I am always taken aback when some people spew such garbage at someone on their personal site and they don't even know if they are guilty of anything or not. Seems fanatical and extreme to me.

The Pastor may turn over these threats to LE and now it is easy to find out their ISP.

It may be a member of his family. It may be someone he is letting stay there or they may have thought she came there since she played with the Pastor's granddaughter.

They willing gave their computer up to LE, so I hope that he had nothing to do with Sandra being murdered.

Isn't this pastor around 65 years of age or older?

imo

LE already has the Pastor's home computers and phones. Not sure about any Church computers.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:13 PM

No, Don Clark didn't say anything having to do with the amount of time the perp had her. He just said it's known some of these SO's will re-dress their victims after they kill them.

There have been such cases profiled on Forensic Files on TruTv.

I believe she was redressed too. What's more intriguing right now is what evidence might have been on that bag, such as something leading LE right back to the perp. And, why would the perp use luggage with perhaps their DNA all over it? Maybe to sneak her out of the park when LE was searching vehicles? Anybody who lives there going on a trip recently?

CaresForKids

04-07-2009, 09:13 PM

Unfortunately, yes, it was that container.

What is wrong with people?

n/t

04-07-2009, 09:15 PM

I thought she also turned her head the opposite direction, like back toward the side of the street she was coming from?

I didn't notice that. From what I saw, she took a quick glance towards her porch (her grandfather said that was their porch) and walked straight ahead. It looked like someone/something caught her attention.

Her grandfather said they hoped she was going to a friend's house but she was never seen again after that video was taken.

Deb7

04-07-2009, 09:17 PM

OK now I see why thought it was for the family..and sure did not want them reading the stuff..

I am hoping that the condolences guestbook I keep reading about only has nice comments to the family and about little Sandra.

I sincerely hope the pastor is only helping law enforcement and has nothing to do with this at all.

JMO

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 09:18 PM

LE already has the Pastor's home computers and phones. Not sure about any Church computers.

Hi em,

Yes I read today in an article somewhere where the Pastor's wife said they willingly gave LE their computer and cell phones.

imo

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:19 PM

I didn't notice that. From what I saw, she took a quick glance towards her porch (her grandfather said that was their porch) and walked straight ahead. It looked like someone/something caught her attention.

Her grandfather said they hoped she was going to a friend's house but she was never seen again after that video was taken.

You're probably right, and I don't feel like looking at it again right now, since she's gone. :sad: I just feel the answer is right outside the range of the camera.

n/t

04-07-2009, 09:21 PM

You're probably right, and I don't feel like looking at it again right now, since she's gone. :sad: I just feel the answer is right outside the range of the camera.

I think so too. :sad:

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:21 PM

Police: Pastor ''Won't Be Arrested Today'' In Connection With Sandra Cantu's Murder

http://www.fox40.com/pages/landing_sandra_cantu/?Police-Pastor-Wont-Be-Arrested-Today-In-=1&blockID=260818&feedID=2674

CC I See

04-07-2009, 09:22 PM

IIRC, Sgt. Tony Sheneman said something to the effect that he had lived in the area for many years and was unaware the irrigation ditches were there.....imo

Anyone with google earth could look up the area and find a spot to leave a body. It would take less than five minutes.

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 09:23 PM

I thought she also turned her head the opposite direction, like back toward the side of the street she was coming from?

Hi Sun,

That is how I saw it too. She comes out from between the two cars and then she is skipping and hopping down the paved road and then she stops skipping along and glances to her right, she no longer skips but she puts her hands up and fiddles with her hair like she is unnerved about something or someone and then she tries to be a big girl and walk on by whomever she saw imo.

imoo

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:24 PM

I am hoping that the condolences guestbook I keep reading about only has nice comments to the family and about little Sandra.

I sincerely hope the pastor is only helping law enforcement and has nothing to do with this at all.

JMO

there is one on here it is a site called search for sandra
http://www.fox40.com/pages/landing_sandra_cantu/?Viewers-Voice-Your-Comments-On-The-Searc=1&blockID=257549

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:28 PM

Anyone with google earth could look up the area and find a spot to leave a body. It would take less than five minutes.

And LE took the pastor's computers. :scared:

Amy

04-07-2009, 09:30 PM

Actually, on NG tonite the same guy that gave the presser earlier today said that the pond was for dairy and cattle waste, etc., in it, from the dairy.

I didn't hear the pc, but someone who did says the Sgt. said it was a collection pond not an irrigation pond, not an irrigation ditch. Collection pond is not quite the same as irrigation, that's for sure. Animal waste, and chemicals to control those wastes, if I understand collection ponds correctly.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:30 PM

Hi Sun,

That is how I saw it too. She comes out from between the two cars and then she is skipping and hopping down the paved road and then she stops skipping along and glances to her right, she no longer skips but she puts her hands up and fiddles with her hair like she is unnerved about something or someone and then she tries to be a big girl and walk on by whomever she saw imo.

imoo

Bless you for remembering it that way too! :wub: I just can't bring myself to watch the video tonight to study it again.

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:31 PM

I didn't hear the pc, but someone who did says the Sgt. said it was a collection pond not an irrigation pond, not an irrigation ditch. Collection pond is not quite the same as irrigation, that's for sure. Animal waste, and chemicals to control those wastes, if I understand collection ponds correctly.

I understood him that way too ~ a collection pond for a dairy farm.

nana6

04-07-2009, 09:32 PM

Welp that would rule out anyone rowing a boat in it. Serious, that's about the most sickening thing I've ever heard. When I read your post I googled methane dairies and this may have been one of those. What I've read so far says the cow poop has to be covered, but they use water for the methane process and those ponds are open. but I dunno. Would have to read up more on it. I guess they've been referring to it as irrigation pond for the sake of the family. I recall the LE official at the pressor this morning indicate he thought whoever did this would have known that was there. I'll say.

If this is true this guy is a mega-sicko

He must live in that area as opposed to being a guest at the motel in the area then. I wonder since they took things like computers and cell phones from the preachers home if maybe someone else is living in that house besides he and his wife.

PBJMOM4

04-07-2009, 09:34 PM

Bless you for remembering it that way too! :wub: I just can't bring myself to watch the video tonight to study it again.

Is the video in the links thread somewhere?
I'm not sure knowing what I know now, I'd want to see it either.

nana6

04-07-2009, 09:38 PM

Well for purposes of discussion she was only located yesterday and all the stories and LE called it irrigation pond. It doesn't matter except to make this monster who did this even worse than ever.

Hi Ad, Do you think it is someone who lives in their park? I do and I also think they had to know about when the water was drained and when it was full again UNLESS they had no idea about the draining and re filling they do there and just found a spot to put her.

aproudmom

04-07-2009, 09:40 PM

Just listening to the video from the press conf..he says KILLERSdo not know if it just came out that way or they think more than one is involved..he also said he was not aware the pastor had a son???ok did he not just say they had questioned him and his wife. the pastor did not call about the suitcase so what lead them to his home and his church..had to be something big IMO not saying it was him and all warrants are sealed..ok just listended a reporter caught the KILLERS also he did not want to comment on that..

Sweetly

04-07-2009, 09:41 PM

Welp that would rule out anyone rowing a boat in it. Serious, that's about the most sickening thing I've ever heard. When I read your post I googled methane dairies and this may have been one of those. What I've read so far says the cow poop has to be covered, but they use water for the methane process and those ponds are open. but I dunno. Would have to read up more on it. I guess they've been referring to it as irrigation pond for the sake of the family. I recall the LE official at the pressor this morning indicate he thought whoever did this would have known that was there. I'll say.

If this is true this guy is a mega-sicko

To your last sentence, I cried when the pressor guy said it. It is just such a disgusting place to put anyone, even after you've killed them. Whoever this is is definately a sicko and seems he had to have known about these waste ponds, most definately! :crying:

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:41 PM

Is the video in the links thread somewhere?
I'm not sure knowing what I know now, I'd want to see it either.

Yes, post #45 and here http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videoplayer&vid=495 :rose:

nana6

04-07-2009, 09:42 PM

MrLucky917B

04-07-2009, 09:42 PM

Actually, on NG tonite the same guy that gave the presser earlier today said that the pond was for dairy and cattle waste, etc., in it, from the dairy.

Those ponds usually don't smell like roses either....

GentleBreeze

04-07-2009, 09:43 PM

I understood him that way too ~ a collection pond for a dairy farm.

I heard it was an irrigation pond that they had filled about two weeks ago and then yesterday they were pumping the water off to irrigate a field.

Maybe he grows some of the food he gives his cows to eat.

imo

merical

04-07-2009, 09:45 PM

Wow, I had made the assumption it was an irrigation pond. Collection pond on a dairy is going to be more difficult. The stench would be so strong that the investigators probably would have had a difficult time distinguishing it from anything decomposing (this is a guess, as I've never smelled decomposition before). Also, maybe the perp assumed it was a great place to sink a body, in that divers wouldn't be diving in excrement, so without draining it, they'd be hardpressed to find anything. Also, would the stench make it difficult for cadaver dogs to track a scent?

sunstar

04-07-2009, 09:46 PM

Hi Ad, Do you think it is someone who lives in their park? I do and I also think they had to know about when the water was drained and when it was full again UNLESS they had no idea about the draining and re filling they do there and just found a spot to put her.

I think the perp is in the park and maybe they didn't know about the pond being drained so felt comfortable about putting the bag there, figuring it wouldn't be found. It was also probably convenient. I'm curious about the tire tracks LE mentioned last night.

Rushbo

04-07-2009, 09:46 PM

Nah, based on my many years as an armchair detective I'm saying that this idiot is still hunkered down in the trailer park. These types are so messed in the head that they STILL believe they can get away with it.

He's banking on it.

If headed out of town any sort of distance he would have dumped her in another state on his way out. No, this guy is still in the trailer park. He's a local and didn't think before he did this, had fantasies about the actual commission of the crime but not about the dumping of the body hence the obvious haste in choosing a luggage bag and drop site so close to where she went missing.

He couldn't afford to travel far or he would have had to explain where he went and why he was gone for any length of time.

This also tells me that he lives with someone. Someone he would have to explain these things to. Someone that was either gone the night this happened or expected him to be some place else that night without suspicion. He maybe even borrowed their car to transport her body.

He's still there, sweating bullets and trying to act like everything is ok dokie. That's why I didn't suspicion that drunk guy that got arrested for interfering with the investigation. No, this freak is sitting there like a big dopey bear waiting it out with a "who me?" attitude.

I am only going to say here that I have first hand experience dealing with someone who thinks like this and I'll leave it at that.

And yes, every single person on the internet should get together and fight for legislation to call for immediate, surgical castration of anyone caught raping ANYONE, caught sexually molesting children ect...

I'm absolutely sick of hearing about these guy's rights. They have the right to die and that's all if you ask me. Where were Sandra's rights?

Very good analysis, Charlie.