Michelle Fisher Young 4-1-09

[Tia]

Continue here.........

[achristie]

This was such a great summation by Swabby, I thought I'd re-post on the new thread.
.................................................. ......

No, I don't think they would keep bloody linens and the mattress, but when a family goes in to clean up instead of hiring a cleaning crew that is trained in handling hazardous materials, I get an uneasy feeling.

When a family goes to such a crime scene and takes pictures of the blood and gore, a little light bulb goes off in my head.

When a family takes friends and neighbors to view the horrendous scene, warning bells start ringing.

When a family suddenly claims a part of a tooth was overlooked by the investigators after they had spent the better part of two weeks in the house, I remember that Cassidy's tooth box was reported missing by Jason's mother.

When a family hits message boards all over the Internet making excuses for Jason, long before there has been so much as a whimper out of the WCSD, I see a pattern developing.

When SWs are released looking in Brevard for things that Pat Young reported missing from the Birchleaf house, I sit up and take notice.

When Pat Young says that $500.00 in cash, in a new wallet was taken from Jason's closet, I feel like I have been lied to.

When Pat Young tells LE that Jason neither washed, changed or discarded any clothing while at her home, yet the dark colored long sleeve pullover garment with a lighter colored thin stripe bisecting the chest area is not among the items in Jason's vehicle, sirens start blaring.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows himself to be declared a slayer, I feel like some people think the rest of the world is stupid.

When a family sits idly by while their son cedes PRIMARY physical custody of their granddaughter, bells and whistles deafen me. AND When the gist of that agreement centers on ceasing discovery and keeping Cassidy away from the media, I KNOW that the Custody Agreement is not about Cassidy.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows a multimillion dollar judgment to be entered against him, I know someone is trying to play me for a fool. MOO
__________________
"Silence is Golden." At what Price? So Far:

[reborn]

This was such a great summation by Swabby, I thought I'd re-post on the new thread.
.................................................. ......

No, I don't think they would keep bloody linens and the mattress, but when a family goes in to clean up instead of hiring a cleaning crew that is trained in handling hazardous materials, I get an uneasy feeling.

When a family goes to such a crime scene and takes pictures of the blood and gore, a little light bulb goes off in my head.

When a family takes friends and neighbors to view the horrendous scene, warning bells start ringing.

When a family suddenly claims a part of a tooth was overlooked by the investigators after they had spent the better part of two weeks in the house, I remember that Cassite's tooth box was reported missing by Jason's mother.

When a family hits message boards all over the Internet making excuses for Jason, long before there has been so much as a whimper out of the WC SD, I see a pattern developing.

When Saws are released looking in Bereaved for things that Pat Young reported missing from the Birch leaf house, I sit up and take notice.

When Pat Young says that $500.00 in cash, in a new wallet was taken from Jason's closet, I feel like I have been lied to.

When Pat Young tells LE that Jason neither washed, changed or discarded any clothing while at her home, yet the dark colored long sleeve pullover garment with a lighter colored thin stripe bisecting the chest area is not among the items in Jason's vehicle, sirens start blaring.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows himself to be declared a slayer, I feel like some people think the rest of the world is stupid.

When a family sits idly by while their son cedes PRIMARY physical custody of their granddaughter, bells and whistles deafen me. AND When the gist of that agreement centers on ceasing discovery and keeping Cassite away from the media, I KNOW that the Custody Agreement is not about Cassite.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows a multi million dollar judgment to be entered against him, I know someone is trying to play me for a fool. MOO
__________________
"Silence is Golden." At what Price? So Far:

Not one thing she wrote is evidence of murder. Jason Young is following his attorney's advice and not talking to the investigators. I know he had an attorney during the custody agreement and I would bet he had the same attorney for the EDS. I think both of these suits was to get a deposition out of Jason. The general public doesn't know what transpired between LE and Jason the day Michelle was murdered. The fact that Jason's mom said she thought Jason would be arrested that night tells me it wasn't pretty. I think Jason is doing exactly what he should be doing and that is following his attorney's advice. Let LE solve the murder. That is their job. Why in the world would you question a mother saying she had just given her son $500.00? What would be her motive for doing that ? I think she has proof where she got the money or she wouldn't have said it. Now my antenna's would have gone up if when all the warrants they have served on Jason had found any evidence that showed he was any where near his home that night. To my knowledge nothing has been found. Some where there is a valuable set of rings and other jewelery. That jewelery wasn't thrown away as many would like to believe someone has it. How do you know that was Cassie's tooth box? I would assume it was Michelle's from when she was little.. I doubt Cassie has lost a tooth yet.The neighbors that went into the house were there to help with the clean up. They weren't there as gawkers. The photos taken were taken by an insurance adjuster. They have been kept very private. I haven't seen a one of them on the Internet. Have you? I think the agreement to keep the media away from Cassie was a wise thing for Jason to do. Why on earth do you think this little girl should be exposed to the media? Wral and NC Wanted exposed her enough as it goes. I wonder what the person that furnished those videos and photos were paid for them? I bet they didn't go cheap.

[janesdeaan]

snipped from reborns post:
"Not one thing she wrote is evidence of murder."


I read where other posters didn't want to answer your post where you ask to be shown evidence that points to Jason as Michelle's killer. They didn't want to REPEAT what they say they've told you over and over. But, I will give you my list of what points to Jason and ONLY Jason as the killer of Michelle, and I hope you read it because IMO, it is alot more incriminating than your idea of what is wrong with this picture ( I believe I read where you say misplaced keys is incriminating evidence of murder, how ?)

Jason left his home Nov 2, the nite before a meeting to get a head start on the drive, that meeting was scheduled for 10:30 the following day. He didn't want to join Michelle and Cassidy and friend for dinner, because he wasn't hungry. He then went to Cracker Barrel and had dinner. On the drive, he phoned two different friends and told them two different reasons why he was getting a hotel. One he told he was tired from driving the mountainous roads, which we heard from Det. Spivey that the route Jason drove was not mountainous. Jason phoned another friend and said he was getting a room, so he could watch some game that was on. He also told both of these friends an overdone outline of his plans for the following day (establishing alibi). He drove only 2.5 hours from his home and stopped and got a room. This was getting a head start on the long drive ? He checked in and is shown in a video wearing one set of clothes, next, (an HOUR later, but he was TIRED !) you see him on the hotel video wearing dark, baggy clothes carrying what looks like gloves and other things. He is seen on this video heading towards an exit door. So, if he was only driving 2.5 hours on his "get a head start drive" because he was tired OR because he wanted to watch the game, why is he leaving the hotel an hour after he checks in, wearing dark, suspicious looking clothes ? Why isn't he sleeping, or watching the game ? He's LEAVING the hotel at midnight !!! The next 7 hours Jason is NOT accounted for. The key to Jason's room is never used again after check IN time. Then, we find out Jason's cell phone has been shut off that entire 7 hours he is not accounted for. THEN, Jason is thirty minutes LATE FOR HIS 10:30 AM MEETING !!!! And a spokesperson from the hospital meeting says Jason not only was 30 minutes LATE for it, but he arrived acting all NERVOUS !! Then, Jason is busy calling his mother 28 times on his drive to Brevard, after that meeting. TWENTY EIGHT PHONE CALLS to his MOTHER ! And, these 28 phone calls mysteriously STOP at 1:30, the time Meredith Fisher made her 911 call reporting her sisters murder. Then Jason ignores voice messages left by his mother in law, asking him to PLEASE call ME BACK. He doesn't call her back, very strange.
But, he has plenty of chat time available for his mom, and his lover, Michelle Money. So, he shows up in Brevard, and is told by his step dad about Michelle, he "falls plumb to his knees". LE calls him and he doesn't ask anything about Cassidy, or how Michelle died, he then refuses to talk to cops tells them call his lawyer and HANGS UP on the cops. Late, and I mean LATE that nite he finally arrives in Raleigh, but doesn't go anywhere near his home, just straight to Merediths and runs in the house leaving his mom to deal with the cops. OOPS I forgot his call to Meredith earlier that day, asking her to go to his house and get some lame paper off his printer, a ploy to have her find the body and RESCUE HIS DAUGHTER IMO. Ok, the murder scene is investigated, and Jason's DNA is on the bedroom wall above where Michelle is found, his DNA is surrounded, possibly covered by Blood Spatter, the blood is Michelle's the DNA under it is HIS. His bloody shoeprints are found in the bedroom, another print,smaller size shoe, but a brand he is known to own is also found. There is a report of Jason's feet being photographed with blisters consistant with wearing too small of shoes when he goes to give his prints and DNA sample several days after murder. Also, the smaller shoe print in blood matches a shoeprint in the deck stain at the Young home. Hey, this is a GOOD start on a list of reasons, and I haven't even added the part about him NOT fighting a Wrongful Death Suit, and being named the SLAYER of MICHELLE YOUNG, or the part where he just hands custody of his ONLY CHILD to Meredith and Linda Fisher (after keeping Cassidy away from them for 2.5 years) all of a sudden he is more than willing for Meredith to raise Cassidy. Or, how Michelle Youngs own FATHER gave statements to cops that he thinks Jason killed Michelle TOO !!! Oh, and the 15 million he owes for killing Michelle fits in here too. So, reborn there you have ONLY a PARTIAL list of the things that point to Jason Young as the person that killed Michelle Young, and there are many more reasons, but I'm sick of typing. (And I think you really know these things as well as I do) but for some reason you cite things like missplaced keys as the only evidence. ??? Oh man, I almost forgot the INTERNET SEARCHES on Jason Youngs computer, ANATOMY of a KNOCKOUT, HEAD TRAUMA KNOCKOUT, ESCHEMIA (strangulation), OPPORTUNITY, damage to back, lower right part of head, divorce, Michelle Money, gay bars, Eric Rudolph (another murderer who disappeared into mountains after murder), real estate info on the Birchleaf home, and that Carol Anne Sowerby person. OK, I'm done, you read over this list and lemme know what you think GOOD NIGHT

[BiggerRedDog]

:thumbsup:

[5swab5]

I missed the part about the timing of Meredith's 911 call and the last call to Pat Young, very interesting!

I have always thought that Jason was wandering around waiting on a call from Meredith to confirm that she had discovered Michelle so he could go home for his acting debut, but the calls from Linda would have served the same purpose.

1:25PM 911 call by Meredith (5:44)
1:37PM last call to Pat Young
1:53:04PM FROM Linda Fisher (0 seconds)
1:53:23PM FROM Linda Fisher (44 seconds)...Jason is on the phone with Michelle Money
2:05PM last phone call to Michelle Money (~27 minutes)
2:51PM FROM Linda Fisher (0 seconds)
2:52PM FROM Linda Fisher (38 seconds)

Jason does check his voice mail, but does not return a call to Linda, even tho he has already been unsuccessful in contacting Michelle Young twice this morning, even tho Michelle is pregnant and a call from Linda is not a usual occurrence. Linda's message: I need to talk to you. Please call me back. Of course Jason can't be bothered, because he is yucking it up with his honey, Michelle Money.

So lets see, Meredith gets off the phone with the 911 Operator or rather is switched to the Sheriff's Office and their 911...Wonder if Meredith called Pat's house after that, looking for Jason?

Hmm, at any rate....after 28 calls in 6 hours, unless he was talking to Pat during the meeting at the hospital. Actually once you allow for the time that we know he was on the phone with Michelle Money and at Dickenson Hospital, it is more like 28 calls in 5 hours. Deducting a few seconds here and there for dialing and connection time, that's like a call every 10 minutes for 5 straight hours. Holy Moly! Sure screams of urgency to me.

But all of a sudden, ~12 minutes after Meredith calls 911, Pat and Jason run out of things to talk about. RiiighT MOO

[reborn]

[QUOTE=janesdeaan;12959209]snipped from reborns post:
"Not one thing she wrote is evidence of murder."


I read where other posters didn't want to answer your post where you ask to be shown evidence that points to Jason as Michelle's killer. They didn't want to REPEAT what they say they've told you over and over. But, I will give you my list of what points to Jason and ONLY Jason as the killer of Michelle, and I hope you read it because IMO, it is alot more incriminating than your idea of what is wrong with this picture ( I believe I read where you say misplaced keys is incriminating evidence of murder, how ?)

Jason left his home Nov 2, the nite before a meeting to get a head start on the drive, that meeting was scheduled for 10:30 the following day. He didn't want to join Michelle and Cassidy and friend for dinner, because he wasn't hungry. He then went to Cracker Barrel and had dinner. On the drive, he phoned two different friends and told them two different reasons why he was getting a hotel. One he told he was tired from driving the mountainous roads, which we heard from Det. Spivey that the route Jason drove was not mountainous. Jason phoned another friend and said he was getting a room, so he could watch some game that was on. He also told both of these friends an overdone outline of his plans for the following day (establishing alibi). He drove only 2.5 hours from his home and stopped and got a room. This was getting a head start on the long drive ? He checked in and is shown in a video wearing one set of clothes, next, (an HOUR later, but he was TIRED !) you see him on the hotel video wearing dark, baggy clothes carrying what looks like gloves and other things. He is seen on this video heading towards an exit door. So, if he was only driving 2.5 hours on his "get a head start drive" because he was tired OR because he wanted to watch the game, why is he leaving the hotel an hour after he checks in, wearing dark, suspicious looking clothes ? Why isn't he sleeping, or watching the game ? He's LEAVING the hotel at midnight !!! The next 7 hours Jason is NOT accounted for. The key to Jason's room is never used again after check IN time. Then, we find out Jason's cell phone has been shut off that entire 7 hours he is not accounted for. THEN, Jason is thirty minutes LATE FOR HIS 10:30 AM MEETING !!!! And a spokesperson from the hospital meeting says Jason not only was 30 minutes LATE for it, but he arrived acting all NERVOUS !! Then, Jason is busy calling his mother 28 times on his drive to Brevard, after that meeting. TWENTY EIGHT PHONE CALLS to his MOTHER ! And, these 28 phone calls mysteriously STOP at 1:30, the time Meredith Fisher made her 911 call reporting her sisters murder. Then Jason ignores voice messages left by his mother in law, asking him to PLEASE call ME BACK. He doesn't call her back, very strange.
But, he has plenty of chat time available for his mom, and his lover, Michelle Money. So, he shows up in Brevard, and is told by his step dad about Michelle, he "falls plumb to his knees". LE calls him and he doesn't ask anything about Cassidy, or how Michelle died, he then refuses to talk to cops tells them call his lawyer and HANGS UP on the cops. Late, and I mean LATE that nite he finally arrives in Raleigh, but doesn't go anywhere near his home, just straight to Merediths and runs in the house leaving his mom to deal with the cops. Michelle's the DNA under it is HIS. His bloody shoeprints are found in the bedroom, another print,smaller size shoe, but a brand he is known to own is also found. There is a report of Jason's feet being photographed with blisters consistant with wearing too small of shoes when he goes to give his prints and DNA sample several days after murder. Also, the smaller shoe print in blood matches a shoeprint in the deck stain at the Young home. Hey, this is a GOOD start on a list of reasons, and I haven't even added the part about him NOT fighting a Wrongful Death Suit, and being named the SLAYER of MICHELLE YOUNG, or the part where he just hands custody of his ONLY CHILD to Meredith and Linda Fisher (after keeping Cassidy away from them for 2.5 years) all of a sudden he is more than willing for Meredith to raise Cassidy. Or, how Michelle Youngs own FATHER gave statements to cops that he thinks Jason killed Michelle TOO !!! Oh, and the 15 million he owes for killing Michelle fits in here too. So, reborn there you have ONLY a PARTIAL list of the things that point to Jason Young as the person that killed Michelle Young, and there are many more reasons, but I'm sick of typing. (And I think you really know these things as well as I do) but for some reason you cite things like missplaced keys as the only evidence. ???

I have just spent an hour writing you and before I could hit send it went poof.

So I,m just going to first ask you to clear up some statements you have made.

Where did you get the information that bloody shoe prints at the murder scene matched Jason's shoes?

I believe it said the outer sole was like a pr of hush puppies that Jason owned.

Where did you get your information that Jason has been known to have owned a pr of shoes like the smaller size 10 shoe print?

Where did you get your information that the print on the pillow and the deck stain was the same?

Do you have any information on who all had excess to the Young's computer?

I have a feeling this was the home computer as all other times Jason's laptop is addressed as such.

As for the NY Gay bars . Do you have any information if or how often Jason was ever in NY?

When Jason was having dinner at CB and talking to his friends Michelle was watching a TV show with a friend. What does either of these things have to do with her murder?
Jason checked into his motel. A record has been made. Why is he still stumbling around in the hallway there an hr later? Shouldn't he be on his way to Raleigh to kill his wife?

The warrant says he was seen in a hallway headed toward an exit. That hallway also headed towards the stairs up to Jasons room. LE didn't want you to know that.

Do you have any proof of how many of the 28 calls made to Jason's mom was answered? Maybe one or 2? Maybe all of them?

I don't find it suspicious of Jason not returning Linda Fishers calls.

Now if Meredith or Wake County had called him, oh yea I would be real suspicious as to why he wasn't returning their calls.

Just a personal observation but I don't think he ever liked Linda Fisher.

Do you know how many times Jason or his family had talked to Meredith on their way back to Raleigh? Do you know if Jason has talked to Cassie? Surely he had because he knew thats where Cassie was and they went straight there.

I thought they arrived at 9:30 in the evening not late in the night as you stated.

Its about a 5 and a half hour drive from Raleigh to Brevard. If he arrived at his moms at 3:30 the earliest he could have been in Raleigh was 9 PM. Doesn't seem like they wasted to much time.

Wonder why Jason brought his car back to Raleigh? LE thought they saw blood. Probably even wanted to. Wonder why if he had come from such a bloody crime scene and no time to do a clean up his car didn't have any blood in it?
Wonder if he had anything to hide he even used his car. You know like maybe a missing shirt .

His whole day was accounted for except for 35 minutes when he was lost.

LE thought they were going to find blood in Michelle's car 15 months later. If Michelle's car was used to remove Cassie the person that used it had all day to clean it up.

I have questions I would like to see the answers to. I will list them later.

[reborn]

I missed the part about the timing of Meredith's 911 call and the last call to Pat Young, very interesting!

I have always thought that Jason was wandering around waiting on a call from Meredith to confirm that she had discovered Michelle so he could go home for his acting debut, but the calls from Linda would have served the same purpose.

1:25PM 911 call by Meredith (5:44)
1:37PM last call to Pat Young
1:53:04PM FROM Linda Fisher (0 seconds)
1:53:23PM FROM Linda Fisher (44 seconds)...Jason is on the phone with Michelle Money
2:05PM last phone call to Michelle Money (~27 minutes)
2:51PM FROM Linda Fisher (0 seconds)
2:52PM FROM Linda Fisher (38 seconds)

Jason does check his voice mail, but does not return a call to Linda, even tho he has already been unsuccessful in contacting Michelle Young twice this morning, even tho Michelle is pregnant and a call from Linda is not a usual occurrence. Linda's message: I need to talk to you. Please call me back. Of course Jason can't be bothered, because he is yucking it up with his honey, Michelle Money.

So lets see, Meredith gets off the phone with the 911 Operator or rather is switched to the Sheriff's Office and their 911...Wonder if Meredith called Pat's house after that, looking for Jason?

Hmm, at any rate....after 28 calls in 6 hours, unless he was talking to Pat during the meeting at the hospital. Actually once you allow for the time that we know he was on the phone with Michelle Money and at Dickenson Hospital, it is more like 28 calls in 5 hours. Deducting a few seconds here and there for dialing and connection time, that's like a call every 10 minutes for 5 straight hours. Holy Moly! Sure screams of urgency to me.

But all of a sudden, ~12 minutes after Meredith calls 911, Pat and Jason run out of things to talk about. RiiighT MOO

I would assume Jason gotten his mom and told her he was stopping at that hospital. Phone records could affirm this . Then after the hospital stop he had a choice call Momma back or call honey. She was home from teaching by then I think Honey won hands down. I have never said I think Jason is a saint. I just don't think he is a killer.

[reborn]

OK here are some questions I would like answers to. I am sure unless there is a trial we will never get these answers.

The tooth box that some are saying is Cassies. Could that box have been Michelle's and Meredith's and it was entrusted to Michelle because she was the oldest?

The man and womans wedding set thats missing. Could that have been Alan and Linda's ? I notice in photos Jason wears a gold band.

The pearls that are missing . Could they have been handed down from the Fishers ? Pearls were found in storage that were not taken. Someone as young as Michelle shouldn't have so many pearls. JMOO Pearls strike me as an older persons choice of jewelery.

A lot of stuff was said over 2 years ago. One of the things said was this was heirloom jewelery. Does anyone know if this is true? If so which side of the family?

I would like to know if after Meredith arrived at the house was 911 her first call?

I would like to know if when 5 minutes into the 911 call and Meredith was checking Michelle's pulse if this was the first time she had touched her?

I would like to know if in the hours before Jason arrived back in Raleigh Meredith took Cassie to the ER for a check up?

If not why?

I would like to know in the face of finding your sister dead why someone would even mention keys?

I would like to know why we didn't hear the crying on the 911 call we saw on the witness stand last month?

[gbmy]

snipped from reborns post:
"Not one thing she wrote is evidence of murder."

<snipped to keep below max chars allowed! <snip>
Jason left his home Nov 2, the nite before a meeting to get a head start on the drive, that meeting was scheduled for 10:30 the following day.
:closedeyes: He then went to Cracker Barrel and had dinner. On the drive, he phoned two different friends and told them two different reasons why he was getting a hotel. One he told he was tired from driving the mountainous roads, which we heard from Det. Spivey that the route Jason drove was not mountainous. Jason phoned another friend and said he was getting a room, so he could watch some game that was on. He also told both of these friends an overdone outline of his plans for the following day (establishing alibi). He drove only 2.5 hours from his home and stopped and got a room. This was getting a head start on the long drive ? He checked in and is shown in a video wearing one set of clothes, next, (an HOUR later, but he was TIRED !) you see him on the hotel video wearing dark, baggy clothes carrying what looks like gloves and other things. He is seen on this video heading towards an exit door. So, if he was only driving 2.5 hours on his "get a head start drive" because he was tired OR because he wanted to watch the game, why is he leaving the hotel an hour after he checks in, wearing dark, suspicious looking clothes ? Why isn't he sleeping, or watching the game ? He's LEAVING the hotel at midnight !!! The next 7 hours Jason is NOT accounted for. The key to Jason's room is never used again after check IN time. Then, we find out Jason's cell phone has been shut off that entire 7 hours he is not accounted for. THEN, Jason is thirty minutes LATE FOR HIS 10:30 AM MEETING !!!! And a spokesperson from the hospital meeting says Jason not only was 30 minutes LATE for it, but he arrived acting all NERVOUS !! Then, Jason is busy calling his mother 28 times on his drive to Brevard, after that meeting. TWENTY EIGHT PHONE CALLS to his MOTHER ! And, these 28 phone calls mysteriously STOP at 1:30, the time Meredith Fisher made her 911 call reporting her sisters murder. Then Jason ignores voice messages left by his mother in law, asking him to PLEASE call ME BACK. He doesn't call her back, very strange.
But, he has plenty of chat time available for his mom, and his lover, Michelle Money. So, he shows up in Brevard, and is told by his step dad about Michelle, he "falls plumb to his knees". LE calls him and he doesn't ask anything about Cassidy, or how Michelle died, he then refuses to talk to cops tells them call his lawyer and HANGS UP on the cops. Late, and I mean LATE that nite he finally arrives in Raleigh, but doesn't go anywhere near his home, just straight to Merediths and runs in the house leaving his mom to deal with the cops. OOPS I forgot his call to Meredith earlier that day, asking her to go to his house and get some lame paper off his printer, a ploy to have her find the body and RESCUE HIS DAUGHTER IMO. Ok, the murder scene is investigated, and Jason's DNA is on the bedroom wall above where Michelle is found, his DNA is surrounded, possibly covered by Blood Spatter, the blood is Michelle's the DNA under it is HIS. His bloody shoeprints are found in the bedroom, another print,smaller size shoe, but a brand he is known to own is also found. There is a report of Jason's feet being photographed with blisters consistant with wearing too small of shoes when he goes to give his prints and DNA sample several days after murder. Also, the smaller shoe print in blood matches a shoeprint in the deck stain at the Young home. Hey, this is a GOOD start on a list of reasons, and I haven't even added the part about him NOT fighting a Wrongful Death Suit, and being named the SLAYER of MICHELLE YOUNG, or the part where he just hands custody of his ONLY CHILD to Meredith and Linda Fisher (after keeping Cassidy away from them for 2.5 years) all of a sudden he is more than willing for Meredith to raise Cassidy. Or, how Michelle Youngs own FATHER gave statements to cops that he thinks Jason killed Michelle TOO !!! Oh, and the 15 million he owes for killing Michelle fits in here too. So, reborn there you have ONLY a PARTIAL list of the things that point to Jason Young as the person that killed Michelle Young, and there are many more reasons, but I'm sick of typing. (And I think you really know these things as well as I do) but for some reason you cite things like missplaced keys as the only evidence. ??? Oh man, I almost forgot the INTERNET SEARCHES on Jason Youngs computer, ANATOMY of a KNOCKOUT, HEAD TRAUMA KNOCKOUT, ESCHEMIA (strangulation), OPPORTUNITY<snip)
Your post basically nets out to the following 6 points which an attorney can so easily refute (yes, individually and collectively) to introduce plenty of reasonable doubt.

1. Speculative intangibles about why he left when he left and why he stayed in the Hampton Inn
(He wasn't hungry, stopped in a hotel to break up his trip, shared 2 reasons for staying at HI. So what? You can find many examples of traveling workers doing similar things....this is a ho hummer and hugely speculative....riddled with serious reasonable doubt.)

2. Happenings while he was checked into the hotel/accounting for those 7 wee hours of the morning time.
(So, he changes his clothes, perhaps watches a game on TV for an hour, takes a walk in the hallway (TOWARDS an exit, but could have been TOWARDS other things too).....Perhaps it was a quick snack break which is why he left his door ajar.....I've done that before and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has. Oh, and he can't account for his hours from midnight on? hmmmm, perhaps he was sleeping just like 1000s of other business travelers and most other people were at that hour. Is that so hard to swallow?

3. Actions/Behavior after the murder
(calling his mom 28 times.....What does this mean? One can only speculate as to what they talked about. Hanging up on LE....well, what was the exact content of that discussion? Were they implicating him? Gosh, the guy just found out his wife was murdered....I wouldn't be in any mood to talk either especially if I felt I was being treated harshly/like a criminal.

4. Forensic evidence
(The foot prints are 2 sizes too small.....knock yourself out with 'explaining' some theory about the possibilities of blisters forming so quickly.......And, why would he wear those same 2 sizes to small shoes to stain his deck? All part of his planning? Pure and utter speculation....DNA on the wall? Yep, just like 1000s of other people who have their DNA prints in their house (remember, his DNA was 'surrounded' by blood not 'in' the blood....if I'm mistaken about me, post a link).

5. Remaining silent/not cooperating with police
(doesn't call Linda F back, hangs up on LE without asking about CY, lawyers up, runs to Meredith when arriving in Raleigh vs. speaking w/LE....Well, maybe he simply didn't get Linda's message. Maybe he ran to Meredith after getting to Raleigh instead of talking to LE because a) he wanted to see CY, who was there and b) perhaps LE had already treated him like a criminal. ll subsequent silence and its meaning have been re-hashed as nausea over the last 2+ years. You can vent your frustration with this all you want but it is a fact that he's following his attorney's advice.....an attorney he's paying big bucks too.

6. Troubled marriage
Yeah, a very unfortunate reality in today's world. A much larger % than we'd like to see cheat on their spouses.....it's disgusting.

For me, the Internet searches and phone call to get Meredith to pick up the document are the 2 things that shake my belief in his innocence.

[5swab5]

(snipped)

For me, the Internet searches and phone call to get Meredith to pick up the document are the 2 things that shake my belief in his innocence.

Like I have said time and time again. You can make up excuses for and rationalize any one action all you want, but a jury will not accept excuse after excuse for every little thing. They will look at things in totality. Crimes are a messy business, but a puzzle. Especially since the whole idea is for the culprit to escape prosecution.

There are not dozens and dozens of incriminating circumstances on November 2-3 2007 that shine the spotlight on Jason for no reason.

Another thing you need to work on, is why Jason had more gas in his vehicle than he could have possibly had, given his travels and his gas purchases on those two days....even IF he simply went to VA and on to his meeting. MOO

[5swab5]

Like I have said time and time again. You can make up excuses for and rationalize any one action all you want, but a jury will not accept excuse after excuse for every little thing. They will look at things in totality. Crimes are a messy business, but a puzzle. Especially since the whole idea is for the culprit to escape prosecution.

There are not dozens and dozens of incriminating circumstances on November 2-3 2007 that shine the spotlight on Jason for no reason.

Another thing you need to work on, is why Jason had more gas in his vehicle than he could have possibly had, given his travels and his gas purchases on those two days....even IF he simply went to VA and on to his meeting. MOO

OOPS^^^^^^November 2-3 2006^^^^^^, my apologies.

[reborn]

Like I have said time and time again. You can make up excuses for and rationalize any one action all you want, but a jury will not accept excuse after excuse for every little thing. They will look at things in totality. Crimes are a messy business, but a puzzle. Especially since the whole idea is for the culprit to escape prosecution.

There are not dozens and dozens of incriminating circumstances on November 2-3 2007 that shine the spotlight on Jason for no reason.

Another thing you need to work on, is why Jason had more gas in his vehicle than he could have possibly had, given his travels and his gas purchases on those two days....even IF he simply went to VA and on to his meeting. MOO


We don't know the gas difference. Was it a gal. or 10 gal? All we know it was inconsistent with what he used. Well per warrants Meredith has made 3 inconsistent statements. So that still puts her in my suspect column.

[Barbara2]

We don't know the gas difference. Was it a gal. or 10 gal? All we know it was inconsistent with what he used. Well per warrants Meredith has made 3 inconsistent statements. So that still puts her in my suspect column.

The only thing she said that could possibly even be considered an inconsistency is that she forgot where she put her keys. If that's a sign of guilt, we are ALL guilty. I can only hope that the police don't come in here right now and ask me where my keys are because I'm not sure. And I didn't just walk into a horrible and shocking scene either. I have no idea where these other so called statements you keep referring to are coming from. IMO

[janesdeaan]

I know I didn't include EVERY thing that points to Jason's guilt, but cmon, look at everything as a whole, and tell me what does your instinct tell you ? There are far too many things in this case, no one has that many coincidences happening in their life, let alone with a spousal murder looming. IMO it's a no brainer

[janesdeaan]

We don't know the gas difference. Was it a gal. or 10 gal? All we know it was inconsistent with what he used. Well per warrants Meredith has made 3 inconsistent statements. So that still puts her in my suspect column.

Okay, now would you mind giving your idea of how it all went down, with Meredith as the so called "perp" ? I would love to hear a JII offer up some type of scenario, instead of throwing baseless accusations around and insisting Jason is innocent and Meredith is the killer !!

[janesdeaan]

snipped from gbmy's post :

"1. Speculative intangibles about why he left when he left and why he stayed in the Hampton Inn
(He wasn't hungry, stopped in a hotel to break up his trip, shared 2 reasons for staying at HI. So what? You can find many examples of traveling workers doing similar things....this is a ho hummer and hugely speculative....riddled with serious reasonable doubt.)"

What you may call speculation is in actuality what Det. Spivey stated, that Jason had called two friends, told them two different stories about why he was only driving 2.5 hours of his trip. (Even tho he left hours and hours earlier than it would have taken to drive there). In addition, he also offered up a very wordy plan for the following day, information neither friend needed, Spivey said the friends didn't understand why he was telling them all this info. Spivey said he was setting up his alibi even then, and about the reason JY gave for getting a hotel 2.5 hours into his trip ? JY said he was tired from all the mountain road driving, which Spivey also said was BS. And, since the reasons he gave the friends differed, neither one panned out to be true, he certainly wasn't tired when the hotel video shows him check in and an hour later, in different clothes heading toward exit. By the way, he changed into dark/black, very baggy clothes and appears to be holding gloves in video. hmm...
And let me remind you, all I was trying to do was show the poster who was asking what evidence pointed to JY, what my opinion was of the evidence. I didn't offer up a prepared case, I offer my idea/opinions and nothing more.

[gbmy]

<snipped>Like I have said time and time again. You can make up excuses for and rationalize any one action all you want, but a jury will not accept excuse after excuse for every little thing. They will look at things in totality. <snipped>
The # of responses (excuses as you call them) increase in linear fashion to the number of things you choose to spin and add to some lengthy list.

It's clear Jason was an unfaithful husband. Getting Meredith to the house and the Internet searches are suspicious. I hate to say it, but all of the other 'stuff' presented in laundry list fashion but lots of people on this board is only compelling if you put your JDI hat on and attach your own interpetation to each thing, be it individual or collective. Now, the flip side is also true because I (and others) who are JIIs do the same thing!

The problem for LE and the DA is, they know that juries don't wear hats. And, because you're innocent until proven guilty, explaining that you were seen walking in a hotel you paid to stay in and actually slept all night there is not all that far fetched. Especially when, based on info we know for certain, it can't be proved you left the hotel and there is no definitive forensic evidence that shows you were at the scene of the crime......That's what matters.

[janesdeaan]

snipped from gbmy

"2. Happenings while he was checked into the hotel/accounting for those 7 wee hours of the morning time. (So, he changes his clothes, perhaps watches a game on TV for an hour, takes a walk in the hallway (TOWARDS an exit, but could have been TOWARDS other things too).....Perhaps it was a quick snack break which is why he left his door ajar.....I've done that before and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has. Oh, and he can't account for his hours from midnight on? hmmmm, perhaps he was sleeping just like 1000s of other business travelers and most other people were at that hour. Is that so hard to swallow?"

Yep, sure is. Why does he need dark black VERY baggy clothing, and a handful of items which look like gloves for one thing ? To go get a SNACK? And for someone who wasn't hungry for dinner at home, he sure got hungry for Cracker Barrel quick, and then you've got him eating AGAIN at the hotel ? An hour after arriving, because he was too tired from all that driving ? And your rebuttal so far is exactly what you accuse me of, speculative intangibles. jus sayn...
By the way, most of us I assume own cell phones, myself, I don't TURN MY PHONE OFF at night, I plug it into the charger usually because it needs to be charged. Why would he turn the phone OFF ? That to me is suspicious also, ask some people you know if they turn their phones off at nite when they go to bed. I don't think many do, JMO

[janesdeaan]

Okay, now would you mind giving your idea of how it all went down, with Meredith as the so called "perp" ? I would love to hear a JII offer up some type of scenario, instead of throwing baseless accusations around and insisting Jason is innocent and Meredith is the killer !!

hate to bump my own post, but I really would love it if one of the JII's could answer this. TIA

[reborn]

The only thing she said that could possibly even be considered an inconsistency is that she forgot where she put her keys. If that's a sign of guilt, we are ALL guilty. I can only hope that the police don't come in here right now and ask me where my keys are because I'm not sure. And I didn't just walk into a horrible and shocking scene either. I have no idea where these other so called statements you keep referring to are coming from. IMO


!. Cassie walking around in the house--Cassie covered up in bed.
2.Jason called in the morning--per warrant jason called in afternoon.
3. Keys on counter--keys on Michelle's car.

Bet you sure would have a lot to say if Jason made these inconsistent statements.

[5swab5]

The # of responses (excuses as you call them) increase in linear fashion to the number of things you choose to spin and add to some lengthy list.

It's clear Jason was an unfaithful husband. Getting Meredith to the house and the Internet searches are suspicious. I hate to say it, but all of the other 'stuff' presented in laundry list fashion but lots of people on this board is only compelling if you put your JDI hat on and attach your own interpetation to each thing, be it individual or collective. Now, the flip side is also true because I (and others) who are JIIs do the same thing!

The problem for LE and the DA is, they know that juries don't wear hats. And, because you're innocent until proven guilty, explaining that you were seen walking in a hotel you paid to stay in and actually slept all night there is not all that far fetched. Especially when, based on info we know for certain, it can't be proved you left the hotel and there is no definitive forensic evidence that shows you were at the scene of the crime......That's what matters.

When you put all the circumstances together and compound that with the FACT that a wife that Jason despised was brutally murdered, and in a very personal way....during the very same hours that have to have excuse after excuse made up for, it is a no brainer. MOO

[reborn]

hate to bump my own post, but I really would love it if one of the JII's could answer this. TIA


If Meredith is the killer I don't think she was by herself. I think she knew Jason was out of town and I think she knew Michelle had money in the house. I think she went there wanting money. I think Michelle said no and they got into a fight. I think she grabbed something and hit Michelle and there was no turning back. I think she knew she was looking at jail time if she let Michelle live. I think she yelled for her friend that was with her and they came and helped with the killing of Michelle. I think Cassie woke up and she grabbed her cleaned her up and took her to her house. I think she went back and made sure all blood was smeared so there wasn't any prints. Then I think she searched Jason's closet till she found the money and took a few of Michelle's things and went home and waited. Some are saying Jason talked to her from the motel . I don't know if this is true or not. If so she could have been expecting his call about the print out. I don't know if LE has the actual voice mail or if just a record of it being made. If its just a record of it being made then Jason may have called about the print out the night before and about not knowing where Michelle was on the day of the murder. These are questions I don't have answers to. If Meredith killed Michelle someone else knows about it. I can't imagine living wondering if that person will someday tell somebody . If Meredith killed Michelle I don't think it was pre med for a second. I think it was done in a rage . That would be the way I would see it happening if Meredith killed Michelle. Of course I have no idea if she did. She is on my list of suspects as is Jason. Some of these questions I don't have answers for LE is in the position to get the answers. I have seen no warrants going her way so I guess she isn't being looked at.

[Barbara2]

!. Cassie walking around in the house--Cassie covered up in bed.
2.Jason called in the morning--per warrant jason called in afternoon.
3. Keys on counter--keys on Michelle's car.

Bet you sure would have a lot to say if Jason made these inconsistent statements.

Where does it say anywhere that Meredith claims the child was walking around the house? What does what time of day he called have to do with anything? I agree that she forgot where she put her keys.

Jason has made inconsistent statements, just not in any warrants. IMO

[5swab5]

!. Cassie walking around in the house--Cassie covered up in bed.
2.Jason called in the morning--per warrant jason called in afternoon.
3. Keys on counter--keys on Michelle's car.

Bet you sure would have a lot to say if Jason made these inconsistent statements.

1) So what, were you there? Do you know exactly how the questions were phrased?

2)OH! For the love of Pete! Jason called Meredith at 12:10PM, BIG DEAL!

3)I won't even dignify the ridiculous misplaced keys with another reply.

How can I find fault with Jason, he ain't talking. He ain't defending his perfect alibi in court either, he would rather forever be known as a slayer, lose PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy and go in debt to the tune of $15,573,104.40, than do so. Does that not say anything to you?

Meredith fully cooperated with LE and obviously has been cleared, as the lead Insp. testified under oath, that it is his opinion that Jason not only murdered Michelle and Rylan, but that it was premeditated.

I bet I would fall over dead, if you would acknowledge that anything that Jason has ever done outside of Michelle Money gives you any pause. MOO

[5swab5]

(snipped) I don't know if LE has the actual voice mail or if just a record of it being made. (snipped)

Which part of: In the recorded message, which has been saved and transcribed into case records, Do you not understand?

As for the rest of the post:

<Do-Do-Do-DOO, DO-DO-DO-DOO> MOO

[Jester]

The # of responses (excuses as you call them) increase in linear fashion to the number of things you choose to spin and add to some lengthy list.

It's clear Jason was an unfaithful husband. Getting Meredith to the house and the Internet searches are suspicious. I hate to say it, but all of the other 'stuff' presented in laundry list fashion but lots of people on this board is only compelling if you put your JDI hat on and attach your own interpetation to each thing, be it individual or collective. Now, the flip side is also true because I (and others) who are JIIs do the same thing!

The problem for LE and the DA is, they know that juries don't wear hats. And, because you're innocent until proven guilty, explaining that you were seen walking in a hotel you paid to stay in and actually slept all night there is not all that far fetched. Especially when, based on info we know for certain, it can't be proved you left the hotel and there is no definitive forensic evidence that shows you were at the scene of the crime......That's what matters.

If Jason is innocent, what is your theory on his refusal to answer routine questions about his wife's habits immediately after the murder?

[Jester]

!. Cassie walking around in the house--Cassie covered up in bed.
2.Jason called in the morning--per warrant jason called in afternoon.
3. Keys on counter--keys on Michelle's car.

Bet you sure would have a lot to say if Jason made these inconsistent statements.

There are no inconsistencies. Cassidy was walking around the house at some point, as evidenced by her footprints. She was covered up in bed with clean feet when discovered by Meredith after noon on November 3, 2006. The obvious logical conclusion is that she woke up while the murderer was in the house. That murderer washed her feet and put her to bed. It was most likely a murderer with a soft spot for children.

The police did not release any information about when Jason called until a few months ago. I believe most people, aware of Cassidy being alone in the house with her deceased mother, assumed that Jason called early in the morning. We now know that he called after noon. It seems odd that he was so concerned about the expired ebay printout that he asked Meredith to collect it, but it wasn't important enough to collect until half the day was over. Would you consider that an inconsistency?

Was Meredith confused about her keys? Since she had discovered her murdered sister, and was in shock, I expect we can forgive her this transgression.

[Stellagant]

The only thing she said that could possibly even be considered an inconsistency is that she forgot where she put her keys. If that's a sign of guilt, we are ALL guilty. I can only hope that the police don't come in here right now and ask me where my keys are because I'm not sure. And I didn't just walk into a horrible and shocking scene either. I have no idea where these other so called statements you keep referring to are coming from. IMO

Meredith didn't "forget" where she put her keys. She told LE she put them on the kitchen counter where she always put them. The keys were actually Michelle's and a jury will have no trouble believing Meredith put them there AFTER she returned from using Michelle's car to remove CY from the crime scene.

[5swab5]

There are no inconsistencies. Cassidy was walking around the house at some point, as evidenced by her footprints. She was covered up in bed with clean feet when discovered by Meredith after noon on November 3, 2006. The obvious logical conclusion is that she woke up while the murderer was in the house. That murderer washed her feet and put her to bed. It was most likely a murderer with a soft spot for children.

The police did not release any information about when Jason called until a few months ago. I believe most people, aware of Cassidy being alone in the house with her deceased mother, assumed that Jason called early in the morning. We now know that he called after noon. It seems odd that he was so concerned about the expired ebay printout that he asked Meredith to collect it, but it wasn't important enough to collect until half the day was over. Would you consider that an inconsistency?

Was Meredith confused about her keys? Since she had discovered her murdered sister, and was in shock, I expect we can forgive her this transgression.

OR a murderer that gives little children diluted adult medicines and knew full well that Cassidy was in for a long, long nap...maybe even a permanent one.

Sure would explain why Jason was in no hurry to get Meredith to the house, why he never asked LE about Cassidy's condition and also why he gave up PRIMARY Physical custody of her so easily. I guess the new wore off. :sad:MOO

[Stellagant]

There are no inconsistencies. Cassidy was walking around the house at some point, as evidenced by her footprints. She was covered up in bed with clean feet when discovered by Meredith after noon on November 3, 2006. The obvious logical conclusion is that she woke up while the murderer was in the house. That murderer washed her feet and put her to bed. It was most likely a murderer with a soft spot for children.

The police did not release any information about when Jason called until a few months ago. I believe most people, aware of Cassidy being alone in the house with her deceased mother, assumed that Jason called early in the morning. We now know that he called after noon. It seems odd that he was so concerned about the expired ebay printout that he asked Meredith to collect it, but it wasn't important enough to collect until half the day was over. Would you consider that an inconsistency?

Was Meredith confused about her keys? Since she had discovered her murdered sister, and was in shock, I expect we can forgive her this transgression.

LE haven't confirmed the time of Jason's call to Meredith.

LE believe Cassidy's clean feet were due to her being removed from the scene. It is absurd to suggest Jason left the bedroom a bloody mess but took the time to wash CY's feet in order to tuck her into an already bloody bed. The timeline certainly does not support such an absurd theory.:rolleyes:

[5swab5]

Meredith didn't "forget" where she put her keys. She told LE she put them on the kitchen counter where she always put them. The keys were actually Michelle's and a jury will have no trouble believing Meredith put them there AFTER she returned from using Michelle's car to remove CY from the crime scene.


They won't consider it for a moment. Jurors will fully understand that after being sent to find Michelle, Meredith was in a bit of shock. Her trembling voice on the 911 call bears this out. Jurors use their common sense. MOO

[Jester]

LE haven't confirmed the time of Jason's call to Meredith.

LE believe Cassidy's clean feet were due to her being removed from the scene. It is absurd to suggest Jason left the bedroom a bloody mess but took the time to wash CY's feet in order to tuck her into an already bloody bed. The timeline certainly does not support such an absurd theory.:rolleyes:

That information was provided in a search warrant, and the time given was 12:07 if I recall correctly.

There is nothing to suggest that removing someone from a murder scene cleans their feet. Washing feet in the bathroom would result in clean feet and blood smears in the bathroom. There were blood smears in the bathroom. Are you sure that Cassidy is not the person to insist on cleaning her feet?

[Stellagant]

Since the majority of sensible thinking people on this board disagree with your interpretation of Meredith forgetting where she left her keys, I think you're wrong. IMO Apparently the lead investigator disagrees with you as well. AIMO

I'm not going to stoop to your level of personal insults, Barbara2.

The lead investigator is the one who pointed out the inconsistency and the Judge agreed with him and sealed the warrant.

[5swab5]

LE haven't confirmed the time of Jason's call to Meredith.

LE believe Cassidy's clean feet were due to her being removed from the scene. It is absurd to suggest Jason left the bedroom a bloody mess but took the time to wash CY's feet in order to tuck her into an already bloody bed. The timeline certainly does not support such an absurd theory.:rolleyes:


Right:rolleyes:,

They saved it, transcribed it into the case records, and let the 12:10PM time stand, but that's not confirmed enough for you. Okey-Dokey.

LE has moved on from the theory of Cassidy being removed from BirchLeaf, there is a whole section in the SWs about Adult meds being found in Cassidy's room and even a statement from Pat Young, that confirms that Jason watered them down and gave them to her.

Oh and perhaps you missed it, but Spivey testified under oath that he believes that Jason premeditated these murders. Nary a word about Meredith's involvement.MOO

[Stellagant]

That information was provided in a search warrant, and the time given was 12:07 if I recall correctly.

There is nothing to suggest that removing someone from a murder scene cleans their feet. Washing feet in the bathroom would result in clean feet and blood smears in the bathroom. There were blood smears in the bathroom. Are you sure that Cassidy is not the person to insist on cleaning her feet?

Meredith told LE Jason called her. LE have never confirmed the time.

A search warrant does suggest CY was removed from the scene.

[Jester]

OR a murderer that gives little children diluted adult medicines and knew full well that Cassidy was in for a long, long nap...maybe even a permanent one.

Sure would explain why Jason was in no hurry to get Meredith to the house, why he never asked LE about Cassidy's condition and also why he gave up PRIMARY Physical custody of her so easily. I guess the new wore off. :sad:MOO

We know that Jason admitted to giving diluted adult medication to a two year old child, even though he was trained in the dangers of doing exactly that, but we don't know when it happened. I have difficulty believing that he did this with Michelle's consent. We know the only time that Michelle couldn't give consent was the night she was murdered, so it makes Jason's admission of drugging his own daughter highly suspicious.

I suspect that administering adult medication to his two year old daughter, when he knew better, played a part in his loss of custody. I realize he consented to give up custody, but I doubt he did it without a full understanding of the serious and irrefutable allegations against him.

[Stellagant]

Right:rolleyes:,

They saved it, transcribed it into the case records, and let the 12:10PM time stand, but that's not confirmed enough for you. Okey-Dokey.

LE has moved on from the theory of Cassidy being removed from BirchLeaf, there is a whole section in the SWs about Adult meds being found in Cassidy's room and even a statement from Pat Young, that confirms that Jason watered them down and gave them to her. MOO

There has been nothing to confirm Jason gave CY watered down meds the night of the murder and you know it.

[Barbara2]

I'm not going to stoop to your level of personal insults, Barbara2.

The lead investigator is the one who pointed out the inconsistency and the Judge agreed with him and sealed the warrant.

I don't know how you got an insult out of my post. If you interpreted an insult, that is your issue.

They provided a reason to get a search warrant for Michelle's vehicle. IMO

[Jester]

Meredith told LE Jason called her. LE have never confirmed the time.

A search warrant does suggest CY was removed from the scene.

I think Jason's cell phone information in the search warrants provides the time that he contacted Meredith. Perhaps it slipped your mind?

An early search warrant, exploring all possible scenarios, did include one sentence suggesting that Cassidy was removed from the scene. For some reason, that line of thought was dropped and has not been included in any additional search warrants. Did the police discard that theory early on?

[5swab5]

There has been nothing to confirm Jason gave CY watered down meds the night of the murder and you know it.

I think the fact that she slept until Meredith got there lends credence to it. She had a long, hard disturbing night, I doubt she would have slept so soundly after what she witnessed without it. and YES, I believe she saw him, was washed up then drugged by her dear old dad. Daddy Did It MOO

[reborn]

1) So what, were you there? Do you know exactly how the questions were phrased?

2)OH! For the love of Pete! Jason called Meredith at 12:10PM, BIG DEAL!

3)I won't even dignify the ridiculous misplaced keys with another reply.

How can I find fault with Jason, he ain't talking. He ain't defending his perfect alibi in court either, he would rather forever be known as a slayer, lose PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy and go in debt to the tune of $15,573,104.40, than do so. Does that not say anything to you?

Meredith fully cooperated with LE and obviously has been cleared, as the lead Insp. testified under oath, that it is his opinion that Jason not only murdered Michelle and Rylan, but that it was premeditated.

I bet I would fall over dead, if you would acknowledge that anything that Jason has ever done outside of Michelle Money gives you any pause. MOO

It was told on here over and over he left the voice mail at 7:30 AM. now where else could that information have come from except Meredith? Are you saying the det. just made up the story about finding Cassie running around the house?

Sure Jason has done things thats gives me pause. he yelled because his baby peed on the floor. He talked mean to Michelle. He drank beer at a pool with his baby. I have said before I don't think he is a saint but I can't yet see him as the killer.

I don't think for a minute he loved Michelle and that was one marriage that should never have happened. But again a bad marriage doesn't make a killer.

[reborn]

snipped from gbmy's post :

"1. Speculative intangibles about why he left when he left and why he stayed in the Hampton Inn
(He wasn't hungry, stopped in a hotel to break up his trip, shared 2 reasons for staying at HI. So what? You can find many examples of traveling workers doing similar things....this is a ho hummer and hugely speculative....riddled with serious reasonable doubt.)"

What you may call speculation is in actuality what Det. Spivey stated, that Jason had called two friends, told them two different stories about why he was only driving 2.5 hours of his trip. (Even tho he left hours and hours earlier than it would have taken to drive there). In addition, he also offered up a very wordy plan for the following day, information neither friend needed, Spivey said the friends didn't understand why he was telling them all this info. Spivey said he was setting up his alibi even then, and about the reason JY gave for getting a hotel 2.5 hours into his trip ? JY said he was tired from all the mountain road driving, which Spivey also said was BS. And, since the reasons he gave the friends differed, neither one panned out to be true, he certainly wasn't tired when the hotel video shows him check in and an hour later, in different clothes heading toward exit. By the way, he changed into dark/black, very baggy clothes and appears to be holding gloves in video. hmm...
And let me remind you, all I was trying to do was show the poster who was asking what evidence pointed to JY, what my opinion was of the evidence. I didn't offer up a prepared case, I offer my idea/opinions and nothing more.
What do you mean he offered up a very wordy plan for the followig day? I thought it was understood from the beginning he was going to Clintwood Va?

[Jester]

It was told on here over and over he left the voice mail at 7:30 AM. now where else could that information have come from except Meredith? Are you saying the det. just made up the story about finding Cassie running around the house?

Sure Jason has done things thats gives me pause. he yelled because his baby peed on the floor. He talked mean to Michelle. He drank beer at a pool with his baby. I have said before I don't think he is a saint but I can't yet see him as the killer.

I don't think for a minute he loved Michelle and that was one marriage that should never have happened. But again a bad marriage doesn't make a killer.

Sadly, there are a few people that have falsely presented themselves as friends of the family. Those people have posted false information, and it has remained standing until the facts of the case were released by the police. We now know that the person that first posted that Jason contacted Meredith at 7:30 didn't know what they were talking about. It's unfortunate that we believed that person, as it changed the discussion about the case. Now we know the facts, and can get back on track.

[reborn]

Sadly, there are a few people that have falsely presented themselves as friends of the family. Those people have posted false information, and it has remained standing until the facts of the case were released by the police. We now know that the person that first posted that Jason contacted Meredith at 7:30 didn't know what they were talking about. It's unfortunate that we believed that person, as it changed the discussion about the case. Now we know the facts, and can get back on track.

Now now be careful. It might be recorded somewhere who told that story over and over. Just sayin.

[gbmy]

snipped from gbmy's post :

"1. Speculative intangibles about why he left when he left and why he stayed in the Hampton Inn
(He wasn't hungry, stopped in a hotel to break up his trip, shared 2 reasons for staying at HI. So what? You can find many examples of traveling workers doing similar things....this is a ho hummer and hugely speculative....riddled with serious reasonable doubt.)"

What you may call speculation is in actuality what Det. Spivey stated, that Jason had called two friends, told them two different stories about why he was only driving 2.5 hours of his trip. (Even tho he left hours and hours earlier than it would have taken to drive there). In addition, he also offered up a very wordy plan for the following day, information neither friend needed, Spivey said the friends didn't understand why he was telling them all this info. Spivey said he was setting up his alibi even then, and about the reason JY gave for getting a hotel 2.5 hours into his trip ? JY said he was tired from all the mountain road driving, which Spivey also said was BS. And, since the reasons he gave the friends differed, neither one panned out to be true, he certainly wasn't tired when the hotel video shows him check in and an hour later, in different clothes heading toward exit. By the way, he changed into dark/black, very baggy clothes and appears to be holding gloves in video. hmm...
And let me remind you, all I was trying to do was show the poster who was asking what evidence pointed to JY, what my opinion was of the evidence. I didn't offer up a prepared case, I offer my idea/opinions and nothing more.

No, I understand completely. Your opinions are valued just like everyone else's. I think as long as people are civil to one another, then differing opinions is healthy. I love hearing different perspectives which is why I spend time following and participating in this board.

I do realize Det. Spivey 'said' all these things. And, he's providing "his opinion" which spins the information towards JY's guilt. But, all of those things he said are harmless......I've told friends different things about the same topic....both true, just happen to tell 1 one thing and the other another. I don't keep track of everything I say to be certain I say the exact same thing, no more no less, to future people I speak with. As long as its truthful.

[trucrime]

I'm not going to stoop to your level of personal insults, Barbara2.

The lead investigator is the one who pointed out the inconsistency and the Judge agreed with him and sealed the warrant.



LE haven't confirmed the time of Jason's call to Meredith.

LE believe Cassidy's clean feet were due to her being removed from the scene. It is absurd to suggest Jason left the bedroom a bloody mess but took the time to wash CY's feet in order to tuck her into an already bloody bed. The timeline certainly does not support such an absurd theory.:rolleyes:


So you say that a JDI theory is "absurd" with a 'roll eyes' face, but then say you'd never stoop to a level of personal insults? Uh, ok. IMO.

[Jester]

Now now be careful. It might be recorded somewhere who told that story over and over. Just sayin.

I have no doubt that it is recorded somewhere, but we now know that it wasn't true.

[trucrime]

No, I understand completely. Your opinions are valued just like everyone else's. I think as long as people are civil to one another, then differing opinions is healthy. I love hearing different perspectives which is why I spend time following and participating in this board.

I do realize Det. Spivey 'said' all these things. And, he's providing "his opinion" which spins the information towards JY's guilt. But, all of those things he said are harmless......I've told friends different things about the same topic....both true, just happen to tell 1 one thing and the other another. I don't keep track of everything I say to be certain I say the exact same thing, no more no less, to future people I speak with. As long as its truthful.

IMO its not "harmless", what Det. Spivey has testified to shows a great deal of C.E. against Jason Young.

Don't forget, Spivey has seen info that we the general public has not seen and will not see until trial/trial discovery, unless they release new SW's with more new info.

For one, we havent seen the Therapists notes.
IMO.

[reborn]

I know I didn't include EVERY thing that points to Jason's guilt, but cmon, look at everything as a whole, and tell me what does your instinct tell you ? There are far too many things in this case, no one has that many coincidences happening in their life, let alone with a spousal murder looming. IMO it's a no brainer


You still haven't explained where you got all that information about Jasons shoe print being at the house and Jason owning a pr of shoes just like the size 10's. Or where you found out the pillow print matched the deck stain print. I can assure you if LE could prove Jason's print was on that pillow he would be in jail. That is a total no brainer.

[Barbara2]

No, I understand completely. Your opinions are valued just like everyone else's. I think as long as people are civil to one another, then differing opinions is healthy. I love hearing different perspectives which is why I spend time following and participating in this board.

I do realize Det. Spivey 'said' all these things. And, he's providing "his opinion" which spins the information towards JY's guilt. But, all of those things he said are harmless......I've told friends different things about the same topic....both true, just happen to tell 1 one thing and the other another. I don't keep track of everything I say to be certain I say the exact same thing, no more no less, to future people I speak with. As long as its truthful.

I don't think that the different reasons for stopping at the hotel were as suspicious as the fact that he felt it necessary to give his friends so many details about his plans for this business trip. They are accustomed to his habits and it seems that his giving them his itinerary was unusual. That's what they conveyed to the investigators. IMO

[gbmy]

snipped from gbmy

"2. Happenings while he was checked into the hotel/accounting for those 7 wee hours of the morning time. (So, he changes his clothes, perhaps watches a game on TV for an hour, takes a walk in the hallway (TOWARDS an exit, but could have been TOWARDS other things too).....Perhaps it was a quick snack break which is why he left his door ajar.....I've done that before and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has. Oh, and he can't account for his hours from midnight on? hmmmm, perhaps he was sleeping just like 1000s of other business travelers and most other people were at that hour. Is that so hard to swallow?"

Yep, sure is. Why does he need dark black VERY baggy clothing, and a handful of items which look like gloves for one thing ? To go get a SNACK? And for someone who wasn't hungry for dinner at home, he sure got hungry for Cracker Barrel quick, and then you've got him eating AGAIN at the hotel ? An hour after arriving, because he was too tired from all that driving ? And your rebuttal so far is exactly what you accuse me of, speculative intangibles. jus sayn...
By the way, most of us I assume own cell phones, myself, I don't TURN MY PHONE OFF at night, I plug it into the charger usually because it needs to be charged. Why would he turn the phone OFF ? That to me is suspicious also, ask some people you know if they turn their phones off at nite when they go to bed. I don't think many do, JMO
'appeared' to be baggy clothing. Carrying items which 'look like' gloves. That would mean very little to a jury. I have baggy jammies that I love! And by the way, I turn my cell phone off EVERY NIGHT. Why? Cause when it rings it wakes me up......usually it's a wrong #. For really important emergencies, people call my home #. And, if I'm in a hotel, they'd call the hotel who would call my room.

I'm not accusing of you speculatiing intangibles. We all speculate to a large degree on this board. But when you're making a case for someone's guilt, you bear the burden of proof....and although this is not a courtroom, if you present a case for guilt based on speculation, then it is what it is.

[Jester]

You still haven't explained where you got all that information about Jasons shoe print being at the house and Jason owning a pr of shoes just like the size 10's. Or where you found out the pillow print matched the deck stain print. I can assure you if LE could prove Jason's print was on that pillow he would be in jail. That is a total no brainer.

I believe there is evidence that Jason bought similar shoes, that the print matches the shoes he bought, but the shoes are missing. That would be the problem. If Jason would tell the police where to find the shoes, he could be quickly ruled out, and the police could pursue alternate theories. If Jason prefers to keep the shoes missing, then he can't be ruled out, and will continue to live under a shroud of suspicion. Any thoughts on why an innocent man would not jump at the opportunity to clear himself of murder?

Would that be considered an inconsistency?

[Jester]

'appeared' to be baggy clothing. Carrying items which 'look like' gloves. That would mean very little to a jury. I have baggy jammies that I love! And by the way, I turn my cell phone off EVERY NIGHT. Why? Cause when it rings it wakes me up......usually it's a wrong #. For really important emergencies, people call my home #. And, if I'm in a hotel, they'd call the hotel who would call my room.

I'm not accusing of you speculatiing intangibles. We all speculate to a large degree on this board. But when you're making a case for someone's guilt, you bear the burden of proof....and although this is not a courtroom, if you present a case for guilt based on speculation, then it is what it is.

Michelle had already lost a child during pregnancy, and Michelle was pregnant the night she was murdered. Why would he turn off his phone? Jason had a very important reason for keeping his phone turned on when he was out of town.

[gbmy]

When you put all the circumstances together and compound that with the FACT that a wife that Jason despised was brutally murdered, and in a very personal way....during the very same hours that have to have excuse after excuse made up for, it is a no brainer. MOO
No concrete evidence in the public domain showing he left the hotel. No concrete evidence in the public domain putting him at the scene of the crime. LE isn't confident enough to arrest him. All facts. The opinion expressed is yours when you say it's a 'no brainer'. And, that's the way you feel and I understand why.

[gbmy]

If Jason is innocent, what is your theory on his refusal to answer routine questions about his wife's habits immediately after the murder?
Pat Young said he's following the advice of his attorney, which is to not talk. Jason said he was following the advice of his attorney. Other attorneys have said this is the advice they'd give their clients.

[Barbara2]

No concrete evidence in the public domain showing he left the hotel. No concrete evidence in the public domain putting him at the scene of the crime. LE isn't confident enough to arrest him. All facts. The opinion expressed is yours when you say it's a 'no brainer'. And, that's the way you feel and I understand why.

Based on a quote in a recent article, I believe LE may very well be confident enough to arrest him. The DA isn't confident enough to indict him. When the two sides agree, I think we will see an arrest.

[Jester]

No concrete evidence in the public domain showing he left the hotel. No concrete evidence in the public domain putting him at the scene of the crime. LE isn't confident enough to arrest him. All facts. The opinion expressed is yours when you say it's a 'no brainer'. And, that's the way you feel and I understand why.

You're very carefully pointing out the weaknesses in the case, and that's well worth considering. Jason was seen heading towards the exit shortly after midnight on the night that Michelle was murdered. The camera recorded timed photos rather than video, which is a small problem. The timeline, between leaving the hotel and being accounted for in the morning, leaves time for Jason to murder Michelle. Is it necessary to prove that Jason was unaccounted for? We know that he is. Is it necessary to prove he was at the scene? We know that a shoe he owned matched a bloody print at the scene. The bloody shoe is missing, and Jason will not tell the police where he left his shoes. That is a problem for Jason.

[Jester]

Pat Young said he's following the advice of his attorney, which is to not talk. Jason said he was following the advice of his attorney. Other attorneys have said this is the advice they'd give their clients.

So he contacted a lawyer before he contacted the police? He hung up on the police after only a few minutes of discussion, did not ask about his daughter's wellbeing, and has since remained mute. I understood that he did not speak to a lawyer until the following day. Why was he defensive with the police shortly after learning about the murder?

[gbmy]

IMO its not "harmless", what Det. Spivey has testified to shows a great deal of C.E. against Jason Young.

Don't forget, Spivey has seen info that we the general public has not seen and will not see until trial/trial discovery, unless they release new SW's with more new info.

For one, we havent seen the Therapists notes.
IMO.
That's right......We can only acknowledge there are things we don't know and discuss the things we do know along with our opinions. What det. Spivey shared, taken at face value not in context with things we don't know, I just wouldn't think much of it if I was sitting on a jury....and yes, this is true even taken in totality with other similiar statements that require you to tack on subjective interpretations of what it may or may not mean.

When they can present a strong case for him leaving the hotel then walking in a hallway towards an exit (and towards other things), using a key once, and a rock lodged in the door and they can clearly prove he was at the scene of the crime, then that's real data.

[gbmy]

I don't think that the different reasons for stopping at the hotel were as suspicious as the fact that he felt it necessary to give his friends so many details about his plans for this business trip. They are accustomed to his habits and it seems that his giving them his itinerary was unusual. That's what they conveyed to the investigators. IMO
Ok, I can respect you feeling that way. When someone tells me that they someone shared a lot of details about where they were going to be I'd scratch my head and say 'so what'? That is, unless I put my JDI hat on and ask myself "why would a guilty person do this"? Take the hat off, and I'd say, so what?

[Jester]

Pat Young said he's following the advice of his attorney, which is to not talk. Jason said he was following the advice of his attorney. Other attorneys have said this is the advice they'd give their clients.

Aside from following his lawyers advice prior to speaking with his lawyer, doesn't it seem awfully serendipitous for Jason to be relieved of his wife, marriage, financial responsibilities, career responsibilities, and divorce proceedings at the same time that a "friend told investigators Jason Young told them he was "sick of" his wife, that she was "driving him crazy, and that it was pretty well known that Jason was not real faithful"; that Michelle Young might have been planning to divorce him?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4712532/

[Barbara2]

Ok, I can respect you feeling that way. When someone tells me that they someone shared a lot of details about where they were going to be I'd scratch my head and say 'so what'? That is, unless I put my JDI hat on and ask myself "why would a guilty person do this"? Take the hat off, and I'd say, so what?

It's not that he provided a lot of details. The point is that his friends indicated that this was not normal behavior. They found it out of the norm for him to provide them with details of his planned stay, where he was going for his meeting and when. This is his friends saying they found this suspicious, not an anonymous JDI thinking person.

[gbmy]

Based on a quote in a recent article, I believe LE may very well be confident enough to arrest him. The DA isn't confident enough to indict him. When the two sides agree, I think we will see an arrest.
Ok Barbara2, you are correct. Usually I say LE/DA when I make points like this. When you stay focused on the key points vs. all the 'CE noise', it simply comes down to the fact that an arrest is not being made due to a lack of confidence that the evidence is strong enough. Period. They can only 'suggest' he might have left the hotel. They can only 'suggest' a blister theory to link him to the scene of the crime. Some may think this is 'enough' when considered in totality with the other CE. But again, those who make decisions to arrest or not arrest and who have more information than we do don't agree.

[gbmy]

You're very carefully pointing out the weaknesses in the case, and that's well worth considering. Jason was seen heading towards the exit shortly after midnight on the night that Michelle was murdered. The camera recorded timed photos rather than video, which is a small problem. The timeline, between leaving the hotel and being accounted for in the morning, leaves time for Jason to murder Michelle. Is it necessary to prove that Jason was unaccounted for? We know that he is. Is it necessary to prove he was at the scene? We know that a shoe he owned matched a bloody print at the scene. The bloody shoe is missing, and Jason will not tell the police where he left his shoes. That is a problem for Jason.
No single person can account for time they are sleeping. And, there is not bloody footprint that matches Jason shoe size was found at the scene of the crime.

[Jester]

No single person can account for time they are sleeping. And, there is not bloody footprint that matches Jason shoe size was found at the scene of the crime.

I believe there were two bloody footprints found at the scene, and one of them matched Jason's shoe size. Police also have receipts proving that Jason bought those exact shoes. That's all in one of the search warrants that can be found at the usual places. Am I mistaken? Was there only one bloody footprint for a size 10 shoe?

[Jester]

"Investigators found two footprints in blood on a pillow in the Youngs' bedroom. One of the impressions was similar to the design of a pair of Hush Puppies that Young owned, according to the affidavit. The other footprint was from an athletic shoe. The affidavit noted that Young bought Hush Puppies and two pairs of athletic shoes in July 2005 from a store in Cary."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/michelle_young/story/1183032.html

"Investigators also identified two footprints on a pillow at the crime scene – one made by a Franklin athletic shoe and another made by a Hush Puppies brand shoe. They followed up with a DSW Shoe Warehouse store after a purchase card for that store was found in the Young residence.

Similar impressions of shoe prints were found on some stained decking boards during a search of the home more than a year later, investigators said.

Records show that Jason Young purchased four pairs of shoes on July 4, 2005, including Hush Puppies with the same sole style as that found at the crime scene. The warrants, however, did not indicate whether police found the Hush Puppies."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3365337/

[gbmy]

So he contacted a lawyer before he contacted the police? He hung up on the police after only a few minutes of discussion, did not ask about his daughter's wellbeing, and has since remained mute. I understood that he did not speak to a lawyer until the following day. Why was he defensive with the police shortly after learning about the murder?
I don't know at what time LE uttered their first word to JY, exactly what was said, and at what point he hung up. Do you?

[gbmy]

Aside from following his lawyers advice prior to speaking with his lawyer, doesn't it seem awfully serendipitous for Jason to be relieved of his wife, marriage, financial responsibilities, career responsibilities, and divorce proceedings at the same time that a "friend told investigators Jason Young told them he was "sick of" his wife, that she was "driving him crazy, and that it was pretty well known that Jason was not real faithful"; that Michelle Young might have been planning to divorce him?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4712532/
It's been very clearly proven that Jason was an unfaithful husband.

[Jester]

I don't know at what time LE uttered their first word to JY, exactly what was said, and at what point he hung up. Do you?

There was information, also in warrants, stating that Jason spoke briefly with police prior to returning to the scene of the crime. He did not ask about his daughter's wellbeing, and he hung up on police after a couple of minutes. That was the only time he spoke with police.

It would seem very unusual if he spoke with a lawyer prior to speaking to police.

[janesdeaan]

LE haven't confirmed the time of Jason's call to Meredith.

LE believe Cassidy's clean feet were due to her being removed from the scene. It is absurd to suggest Jason left the bedroom a bloody mess but took the time to wash CY's feet in order to tuck her into an already bloody bed. The timeline certainly does not support such an absurd theory.:rolleyes:

I think if Cassidy had been removed from that scene, there would have been evidence of blood in Michelle's car (that is the vehicle you believe she was removed in, correct ?) and we know they have already checked her car out.

[Jester]

It's been very clearly proven that Jason was an unfaithful husband.

It has also been proven that he purchased shoes that matched the bloody footprint at the scene of the crime. Of the two footprints found at the scene, the athletic print matches the pair of shoes worn by the person that stained the deck, and the other matched the style and size of shoe that Jason purchased in 2005.

Jason was unfaithful, and, unless someone other than Jason stained the deck, then both bloody footprints lead straight to Jason. If someone other than Jason stained the deck, why hasn't he come forward to identify that person and see his wife's murder solved?

[janesdeaan]

That's right......We can only acknowledge there are things we don't know and discuss the things we do know along with our opinions. What det. Spivey shared, taken at face value not in context with things we don't know, I just wouldn't think much of it if I was sitting on a jury....and yes, this is true even taken in totality with other similiar statements that require you to tack on subjective interpretations of what it may or may not mean.

When they can present a strong case for him leaving the hotel then walking in a hallway towards an exit (and towards other things), using a key once, and a rock lodged in the door and they can clearly prove he was at the scene of the crime, then that's real data.

Well they may have that proof on a video,we just don't know that yet. And they did say his time wasn't accounted for between midnight and 7 am or so. I can't believe you don't think Spivey's testimony is gonna hold up, he has been investigating this case for 2+ years, I don't know who else would know any more than he. They have absolute proof that he only used his key once, the key records that data onto a chip.

[gbmy]

It's not that he provided a lot of details. The point is that his friends indicated that this was not normal behavior. They found it out of the norm for him to provide them with details of his planned stay, where he was going for his meeting and when. This is his friends saying they found this suspicious, not an anonymous JDI thinking person.
But, you have to take that information and attach a speculative interpretation to it in order for it to be relevant. Listen, I understand the situation LE is in. JY isn't talking so they are forced to piece together lots of CE like this and then 'suggest' what it might mean collectively with other things. That's their job. Personally, I place much more tangible value on clear forensic evidence and, in this case, proof that he left the hotel. They have no eyewitnesses who can testify that they saw him at a time he should have been in the hotel. As you said, the DA doesn't think they have enough evidence/a strong enough case to indict him. And, we don't know specifically why.

[Barbara2]

But, you have to take that information and attach a speculative interpretation to it in order for it to be relevant. Listen, I understand the situation LE is in. JY isn't talking so they are forced to piece together lots of CE like this and then 'suggest' what it might mean collectively with other things. That's their job. Personally, I place much more tangible value on clear forensic evidence and, in this case, proof that he left the hotel. They have no eyewitnesses who can testify that they saw him at a time he should have been in the hotel. As you said, the DA doesn't think they have enough evidence/a strong enough case to indict him. And, we don't know specifically why.

I would hope the murderer is not going to get away with murder because they don't have an eyewitness. BTW, are you aware that many indicate that eyewitness identification evidence is the leading cause of wrongful conviction in the United States?

[janesdeaan]

[QUOTE=gbmy;12961623]No, I understand completely. Your opinions are valued just like everyone else's. I think as long as people are civil to one another, then differing opinions is healthy. I love hearing different perspectives which is why I spend time following and participating in this board.

I do realize Det. Spivey 'said' all these things. And, he's providing "his opinion" which spins the information towards JY's guilt. But, all of those things he said are harmless......I've told friends different things about the same topic....both true, just happen to tell 1 one thing and the other another. I don't keep track of everything I say to be certain I say the exact same thing, no more no less, to future people I speak with. As long as its truthful.[/QUOTE

I agree with you wholeheartedly gbmy about all of our opinions, and believe it or not I am putting forth an effort to keep the peace here.
I just don't understand you when you say Spivey's testimony is harmless because he said even more at the hearing for the compensation. He stated that Michelle was actually trying to get away from her killer at one point and that she was pretty much chased down and beaten relentlessly. And, from what he gathered in his investigation, he said Jason pre meditated that murder. These are more than just "strong statements" he has made regarding his opinion, and I can't believe he would go public with this if he wasnt' 100 percent sure. He has his career and bankbook to think of, I don't think he would say these things lightly.

[gbmy]

It has also been proven that he purchased shoes that matched the bloody footprint at the scene of the crime. Of the two footprints found at the scene, the athletic print matches the pair of shoes worn by the person that stained the deck, and the other matched the style and size of shoe that Jason purchased in 2005.

Jason was unfaithful, and, unless someone other than Jason stained the deck, then both bloody footprints lead straight to Jason. If someone other than Jason stained the deck, why hasn't he come forward to identify that person and see his wife's murder solved?
I just pulled up the warrants and can't find anything that shows they found a bloody footprint that matched Jason's exact shoe size. Can you post it?

[janesdeaan]

So you say that a JDI theory is "absurd" with a 'roll eyes' face, but then say you'd never stoop to a level of personal insults? Uh, ok. IMO.

Imagine that ~

[janesdeaan]

You still haven't explained where you got all that information about Jasons shoe print being at the house and Jason owning a pr of shoes just like the size 10's. Or where you found out the pillow print matched the deck stain print. I can assure you if LE could prove Jason's print was on that pillow he would be in jail. That is a total no brainer.

search warrants...

[Jester]

I just pulled up the warrants and can't find anything that shows they found a bloody footprint that matched Jason's exact shoe size. Can you post it?

I already linked the two relevant articles ... skim back a bit and they are there.

[gbmy]

Well they may have that proof on a video,we just don't know that yet. And they did say his time wasn't accounted for between midnight and 7 am or so. I can't believe you don't think Spivey's testimony is gonna hold up, he has been investigating this case for 2+ years, I don't know who else would know any more than he. They have absolute proof that he only used his key once, the key records that data onto a chip.
I think facts presented in Spivey's testimony will most definitely 'hold up'. And, I think his opinions of what those facts might mean will be taken as just that.....opinions. Only using his key once means one of 2 things. 1. He left his door ajar when he walked out of his room, was gone for just a few minutes, and then re-entered. 2. When he left his room, he walked outside, into his car, and drove 2.5 hours back home to commit a murder. Would you agree with that?

[gbmy]

I already linked the two relevant articles ... skim back a bit and they are there.
I've pasted the relevant quote from your link below. It says nothing about finding a bloody footprint that matched Jasons's exact shoe size. Only words like 'similar' and 'same sole style'.........Nothing about the size.

"Records show that Jason Young purchased four pairs of shoes on July 4, 2005, including Hush Puppies with the same sole style as that found at the crime scene"

[Barbara2]

I've pasted the relevant quote from your link below. It says nothing about finding a bloody footprint that matched Jasons's exact shoe size. Only words like 'similar' and 'same sole style'.........Nothing about the size.

"Records show that Jason Young purchased four pairs of shoes on July 4, 2005, including Hush Puppies with the same sole style as that found at the crime scene"

I doubt that a whole lot of random killers show up in Hush Puppy shoes. It would be more believable to suggest that some random murderer decided to come into Jason's house and put on his shoes and then commit murder. I know. OUTRAGEOUS, but more believable than the killer just "happens" to have the same shoe style as that owned by the owner of the house.

[reborn]

I've pasted the relevant quote from your link below. It says nothing about finding a bloody footprint that matched Jasons's exact shoe size. Only words like 'similar' and 'same sole style'.........Nothing about the size.

"Records show that Jason Young purchased four pairs of shoes on July 4, 2005, including Hush Puppies with the same sole style as that found at the crime scene"


LE has never said what size they think that shoe was. I don't think they have enough of the print to tell or it wasn't a 12 and they don't want to tell. They just said the sole was the same as a hush puppy shoe. The sole could have been the same as other brands of shoes also I'm guessing.

[Barbara2]

LE has never said what size they think that shoe was. I don't think they have enough of the print to tell or it wasn't a 12 and they don't want to tell. They just said the sole was the same as a hush puppy shoe. The sole could have been the same as other brands of shoes also I'm guessing.

I don't think so. I understand that the sole is very distinctive.

[reborn]

I have no doubt that it is recorded somewhere, but we now know that it wasn't true.
Yes we know it wasn't true but do we know if Meredith said it to someone or not?

[reborn]

You're very carefully pointing out the weaknesses in the case, and that's well worth considering. Jason was seen heading towards the exit shortly after midnight on the night that Michelle was murdered. The camera recorded timed photos rather than video, which is a small problem. The timeline, between leaving the hotel and being accounted for in the morning, leaves time for Jason to murder Michelle. Is it necessary to prove that Jason was unaccounted for? We know that he is. Is it necessary to prove he was at the scene? We know that a shoe he owned matched a bloody print at the scene. The bloody shoe is missing, and Jason will not tell the police where he left his shoes. That is a problem for Jason.


Do we know if LE checked Jason's closet for those shoes? Jason's closet if we are to believe some was rummaged through. Did some or most of his things get sprayed with blood? If this is the case I would said the family threw away those shoes. LE didn't look for them for months after the murder.

[reborn]

I think if Cassidy had been removed from that scene, there would have been evidence of blood in Michelle's car (that is the vehicle you believe she was removed in, correct ?) and we know they have already checked her car out.
Whoever removed her had all day to clean the car. How come Jasons car had no blood in it? he didn't have time to even clean it.
They didn't check Michelles car for 15 months. They took Jason's on the 3rd .

[reborn]

It has also been proven that he purchased shoes that matched the bloody footprint at the scene of the crime. Of the two footprints found at the scene, the athletic print matches the pair of shoes worn by the person that stained the deck, and the other matched the style and size of shoe that Jason purchased in 2005.

Jason was unfaithful, and, unless someone other than Jason stained the deck, then both bloody footprints lead straight to Jason. If someone other than Jason stained the deck, why hasn't he come forward to identify that person and see his wife's murder solved?


When was it ever established that the size 10 Franklins were the shoes from the deck stain? I sure have never seen that.

[reborn]

search warrants...


You need to read them again. That wasn't what they said. I wonder if they checked this insole against womens shoes? I have a pair of naturalizers called resort . The sole looks the same on my shoes as the photo of the hush puppy. I can't find the shoes on line. I guess they are discontinued.


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

[Doorbell]

You need to read them again. That wasn't what they said. I wonder if they checked this insole against womens shoes? I have a pair of naturalizers called resort . The sole looks the same on my shoes as the photo of the hush puppy. I can't find the shoes on line. I guess they are discontinued.


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

It is the outsole they were looking at, not the insole.

And, a man's size 12 is equivalent to a woman's size 13 1/2.

http://www.alternativeoutfitters.com/AOShoeSizeConversionTable.html

That is a very large foot for a woman. It would measure, according to the linked chart, between 11 and 11 1/4"

[gbmy]

I doubt that a whole lot of random killers show up in Hush Puppy shoes. It would be more believable to suggest that some random murderer decided to come into Jason's house and put on his shoes and then commit murder. I know. OUTRAGEOUS, but more believable than the killer just "happens" to have the same shoe style as that owned by the owner of the house.
If they were confident the footprint evidence shows it's Jason's beyond a reasonable doubt.....and, they felt that the evidence they have was strong enough to prove he left the hotel beyond a reasonable doubt, then I believe he would have been arrested. Especially when coupled with the intangible evidence about his troubled marriage, etc.

[reborn]

These aren't same name as mine but wait until they flip to the bottom. I think that looks like the photo in the warrant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NATURALIZER-Fit-4-U-Sys-Red-Leather-Loafer-Shoe-6-5-M_W0QQitemZ360143370612QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Women _s_Shoes?hash=item360143370612&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A7%7C294%3A50

[reborn]

It is the outsole they were looking at, not the insole.

And, a man's size 12 is equivalent to a woman's size 13 1/2.

http://www.alternativeoutfitters.com/AOShoeSizeConversionTable.html

That is a very large foot for a woman. It would measure, according to the linked chart, between 11 and 11 1/4"


Isn't the outsoles the bottoms of them ?

[reborn]

It is the outsole they were looking at, not the insole.

And, a man's size 12 is equivalent to a woman's size 13 1/2.

http://www.alternativeoutfitters.com/AOShoeSizeConversionTable.html

That is a very large foot for a woman. It would measure, according to the linked chart, between 11 and 11 1/4"


Yes but I haven't seen anywhere they say they are a size 12. They just say the out sole is comparable to the hush puppy. Now they say Jason bought 12's but they say nothing about the size of the print on the pillow. Mkes me wonder if just a small amount of that shoe showed.

[trucrime]

If they were confident the footprint evidence shows it's Jason's beyond a reasonable doubt.....and, they felt that the evidence they have was strong enough to prove he left the hotel beyond a reasonable doubt, then I believe he would have been arrested. Especially when coupled with the intangible evidence about his troubled marriage, etc.

Im sure they are confident. They've said in recent interviews that they're still gathering evidence. Who's to say what penalty theyre going for - if its the DP they'll need all the evidence they can get. Didnt that clip on NC Wanted recently say it was one of the worst crime scenes ever? And reminder, its a noticeably pregnant woman. IMO.

[trucrime]

No single person can account for time they are sleeping. And, there is not bloody footprint that matches Jason shoe size was found at the scene of the crime.

But if they can prove that as a habit Jason normally had his cell phone on, but there's missing pings just that one night "by chance", it doesnt look good. With the amount that he was texting MM (along with whomever else he was texting), sounds like he was getting messages quite frequently. IMO.

[janesdeaan]

I just noticed something I had not seen before, in the February SW it says when Jason was recorded heading towards the exit door at the hotel at 11:58/59 pm (whatever) that this followed a call he had made to Michelle Money at 11:42 pm !! And his phone never recorded another ping until the next morning around 7:40 am when he called Michelle Money again. So, he calls MM Thurs. nite , 16 minutes later he is seen in different clothes walking towards the exit and he has ALREADY SHUT HIS PHONE OFF FOR THE NIGHT, possibly as he is LEAVING hotel !! This is something not to be taken lightly, IMO, what if he called her and somehow felt reinforced to go ahead with his plan for murder and shut off the phone and left for Birchleaf and did the horrific deed ?? Another thing is on that same day Nov 2, that phone call at 11:42 pm was only one of 50 calls and text messages between the two. Sounds to me like ol Jason had had it and was desperate, thus the murder !! IMO of course

[janesdeaan]

Whoever removed her had all day to clean the car. How come Jasons car had no blood in it? he didn't have time to even clean it.
They didn't check Michelles car for 15 months. They took Jason's on the 3rd .

Who's to say Jason didn't have time to wash his car ? He was late for his meeting in the morning, and he also had the whole afternoon to stop and do that. He may have even started cleaning it at his house and that was when the paper boy saw it parked looking like it was ready for loading. It may have been ready for washing !!

[janesdeaan]

Isn't the outsoles the bottoms of them ?

I think outsoles means the part of the shoe the outside of your foot is on, insoles being the side the arch is on.

[janesdeaan]

If they were confident the footprint evidence shows it's Jason's beyond a reasonable doubt.....and, they felt that the evidence they have was strong enough to prove he left the hotel beyond a reasonable doubt, then I believe he would have been arrested. Especially when coupled with the intangible evidence about his troubled marriage, etc.

It is impossible for any of us to know what evidence they are 100 percent sure of and what they are still trying to figure out, but what they have let be known absolutely looks like he's the one. And, Spivey's testimony still is a huge part that screams Jason did it. Obviously they don't have everything for a conviction, YET, so we continue to wait...

[reborn]

I think outsoles means the part of the shoe the outside of your foot is on, insoles being the side the arch is on.


No it's the bottom. My shoe bottom looks just like the photo. Look at the link to ebay. That shoe is a different stye than mine but the sole looks the same.



http://shoes.about.com/od/choosingtherightstyle/g/outsole.htm

[janesdeaan]

Jason's internet searches are so obvious, it seems they could have clinched the case with those !

* real estate searches for Jason Young and the Birchleaf property
* searches for Michelle Money
* Eric Rudolph
* free porn movies (not necessarily this one LOL)
* Ischemia (strangulation)
* Prudential Properties SOWERBY
* Gay Bars, gay bars NYC
* OPPORTUNITY !!
* Anatomy of a Knockout !!!!
* Head Trauma Knockout !!!!
* DIVORCE !!!!
* Right Posterior Parietal Occipital Region !!!! (back of the head)

[Doorbell]

I think outsoles means the part of the shoe the outside of your foot is on, insoles being the side the arch is on.

The outsole is on the outside of the shoe. The insole is on the inside. As in Dr Scholl's insoles.

[janesdeaan]

No it's the bottom. My shoe bottom looks just like the photo. Look at the link to ebay. That shoe is a different stye than mine but the sole looks the same.



http://shoes.about.com/od/choosingtherightstyle/g/outsole.htm

I don't see the relevance...:seeya:

[reborn]

I don't see the relevance...:seeya:


The point i'm trying to make is maybe it was made by some other shoe than a Hush puppy. Maybe it was made by a woman's natualizer shoe?

[reborn]

Jason's internet searches are so obvious, it seems they could have clinched the case with those !

* real estate searches for Jason Young and the Birchleaf property
* searches for Michelle Money
* Eric Rudolph
* free porn movies (not necessarily this one LOL)
* Ischemia (strangulation)
* Prudential Properties SOWERBY
* Gay Bars, gay bars NYC
* OPPORTUNITY !!
* Anatomy of a Knockout !!!!
* Head Trauma Knockout !!!!
* DIVORCE !!!!
* Right Posterior Parietal Occipital Region !!!! (back of the head)


I still think these searches were made on the home computer. Jason's computer has been referred to as his laptop. These were found on the computer. So any visitor they had could have made the searches. These same searches are on my computer now. Well except the porn. Thats on direct TV. LOL

Anatomy of a knockout, Head trauma knockout makes me thing of boxing terms.
Gay bars in NY. Opportunity for who? Michelle is the one that went to NY. Her family was there.
Do we know if Jason ever went to Linda Fishers house?

I can't believe that someone would have to look up on the Internet how to beat a person to death. You just hit them hard with a hard object. I think after going to college jason would already know that.

[jerry50]

Pat Young said he's following the advice of his attorney, which is to not talk. Jason said he was following the advice of his attorney. Other attorneys have said this is the advice they'd give their clients.

JY has hired a great legal team. There should be no reason not to talk to police with his lawyer present. He could ask for a list of questions beforehand so he would know what they were going to ask. However this premise is based on JY being innocent. Even John Gacy's lawyer told him to talk to LE because Gacy had told him he was innocent.
No reputable lawyer would allow an innocent JY to ignore the WDS and be named a slayer in a court of law nor would a reputable lawyer recommend that he give up custody of his daughter.
JY has become a prisoner in his own home. He doesn't seem to be looking for employment, he has no means of support and he is living with his Mother. He hired the best legal team in the state of North Carolina to not only end up in this position but owing his mother-in-law over $15M?
If he were innocent why can't he, at the very least, answer written questions from LE through his lawyer?

[jerry50]

Do we know if LE checked Jason's closet for those shoes? Jason's closet if we are to believe some was rummaged through. Did some or most of his things get sprayed with blood? If this is the case I would said the family threw away those shoes. LE didn't look for them for months after the murder.

More than likely there would have been photos taken of the closet and since there were obvious footprints in the blood, LE would have been especially interested in what shoes were or were not in the closet.

[Leanne Weich]

I still think these searches were made on the home computer. Jason's computer has been referred to as his laptop. These were found on the computer. So any visitor they had could have made the searches. These same searches are on my computer now. Well except the porn. Thats on direct TV. LOL

Anatomy of a knockout, Head trauma knockout makes me thing of boxing terms.
Gay bars in NY. Opportunity for who? Michelle is the one that went to NY. Her family was there.
Do we know if Jason ever went to Linda Fishers house?

I can't believe that someone would have to look up on the Internet how to beat a person to death. You just hit them hard with a hard object. I think after going to college jason would already know that.

After going to college, one would assume he'd know if he was a person of interest in a murder, allowing himself to be declared the slayer (albeit only in a civil court) or handing primary custody of his only child to his s-i-l wouldn't make him look too smart, imo... especially if, as alleged by a couple of people who post here, he is innocent. Maybe he hasn't heard that "the truth will set you free".

[5swab5]

Whoever removed her had all day to clean the car. How come Jasons car had no blood in it? he didn't have time to even clean it.
They didn't check Michelles car for 15 months. They took Jason's on the 3rd .

I believe that the slayer not only washed Cassidy off, but himself as well. No reason to expect that there would be any blood in Jason's car. Trauma doctors and nurses leave the hospital all the time and their cars aren't soaked in blood. No one, except Jason could chance showering after the murders in the Birchleaf house. They would have no way of knowing if and when the :cough: loving :cough: father and husband was going to return. MOO

[5swab5]

I just noticed something I had not seen before, in the February SW it says when Jason was recorded heading towards the exit door at the hotel at 11:58/59 pm (whatever) that this followed a call he had made to Michelle Money at 11:42 pm !! And his phone never recorded another ping until the next morning around 7:40 am when he called Michelle Money again. So, he calls MM Thurs. nite , 16 minutes later he is seen in different clothes walking towards the exit and he has ALREADY SHUT HIS PHONE OFF FOR THE NIGHT, possibly as he is LEAVING hotel !! This is something not to be taken lightly, IMO, what if he called her and somehow felt reinforced to go ahead with his plan for murder and shut off the phone and left for Birchleaf and did the horrific deed ?? Another thing is on that same day Nov 2, that phone call at 11:42 pm was only one of 50 calls and text messages between the two. Sounds to me like ol Jason had had it and was desperate, thus the murder !! IMO of course

I agree, he had it BAD. The timing of those calls to Michelle Money is chilling.

She was the last person he talked to on Thursday night before his cell phone quit pinging and one of, if not THE first person he called once it started pinging again on Friday morning.

There were 50 phone contacts with Michelle Money on the 2nd. Lordy, how did he ever have time to work?

Forget about his pregnant wife for a second, we know he didn't care about her anyway. Would Jason chance missing a call from Michelle Money, maybe after old Steve hit the rack, by cutting his phone off...unless he absolutely had to? I think not.

We know that Jason's last call to Pat Young was @ 1:37PM
We know that Jason was on the phone with Michelle Money when Linda left her message: I need to talk to you. Please call me back. @ 1:53:23PM.
We know that Jason's last call before his mother said he got to Brevard, was to Michelle Money @ 2:05PM

So from ~2:32PM when Jason gets off the phone with Michelle Money until he gets to Brevard, he is "out of touch". Unbelievable that a guy that has been on the horn virtually nonstop for 6 hours, including 28 calls to his mom, drives another 1-1½ hours to Brevard and doesn't call anyone. The only explanation that I can come up with, is that Pat was not truthful about Jason's arrival time. I think the cell phone pings should be very interesting. IMO, it is highly possible that the Youngs used this extra time to remove and destroy evidence, clean up AND get their stories straight.

Pat Young says she didn't want to "inform Jason of his wife's death while he was in transit". She has been waiting for Jason to show up since she got the horrible news, presumably sometime before 2 o'clock. I imagine she would be on pins and needles, pacing the floor waiting on him, yet she didn't know exactly when he got there? The natural tendency would be to look at the clock, as soon as she heard his car pull in. MOO

[5swab5]

Jason's internet searches are so obvious, it seems they could have clinched the case with those !

* real estate searches for Jason Young and the Birchleaf property
* searches for Michelle Money
* Eric Rudolph
* free porn movies (not necessarily this one LOL)
* Ischemia (strangulation)
* Prudential Properties SOWERBY
* Gay Bars, gay bars NYC
* OPPORTUNITY !!
* Anatomy of a Knockout !!!!
* Head Trauma Knockout !!!!
* DIVORCE !!!!
* Right Posterior Parietal Occipital Region !!!! (back of the head)

I think all the searches are interesting, but the "divorce" one is particularly interesting to me.

Bet he didn't know until he looked it up, that in N.C. the spouse that "plays", is the spouse that pays.

Michelle could and would have most probably been awarded Alimony as well as child support, and could have stayed home with her two babies if she so chose and there wouldn't have been a thing in the world Jason could have done about it, except get to work.

Oops, I guess he did figure out a way around it. MOO.

[Barbara2]

These aren't same name as mine but wait until they flip to the bottom. I think that looks like the photo in the warrant.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NATURALIZER-Fit-4-U-Sys-Red-Leather-Loafer-Shoe-6-5-M_W0QQitemZ360143370612QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Women _s_Shoes?hash=item360143370612&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A7%7C294%3A50

It's not the shape that makes it distinctive. Many shoes have that shape. There is a diamond pattern on the sole of the hush puppy shoes. THAT is what makes it distinctive. IMO

[5swab5]

It's not the shape that makes it distinctive. Many shoes have that shape. There is a diamond pattern on the sole of the hush puppy shoes. THAT is what makes it distinctive. IMO

I saw a show on Forensic Files the other day, where the murdering husband had removed the soles from a pair of boots and glued them to the bottom of his bedroom shoes. This was originally done, because the guy wanted something more sturdy and waterproof to wear out to get the paper in the snow.

When they found the prints in the snow leading away from his wife's body, they knew exactly what "boots' they were looking for, but they couldn't find them in the guy's house.

What they did finally find, was little pieces of cut up boot soles, hidden all over the house, even in the children's toy box. Then they noticed the glue residue on the soles of his slippers and solved the case. Man, that guy must have loved those slippers. Keeping them cost him his freedom. MOO

[gbmy]

Im sure they are confident. They've said in recent interviews that they're still gathering evidence. Who's to say what penalty theyre going for - if its the DP they'll need all the evidence they can get. Didnt that clip on NC Wanted recently say it was one of the worst crime scenes ever? And reminder, its a noticeably pregnant woman. IMO.
Right.......and in the absence of new information, the position you are taking would be equally as valid in the year 2030. That's because as many have pointed out, the amount of time to arrest is not indicative of the likelihood of his guilt. So, whether the investigation goes on 5 years or 50 years, it doesn't change the fact that our creator knows for a fact if JY is guilty or innocent. Now, putting divine knowledge aside, us mortals can certainly debate whether the passage of time without an arrest 'at some point' starts to be more indicative of innocence or not. Some will vehemently say no. Bottom line is, we don't know for sure. So, let the speculation continue. And while it does, the stubborn fact will remain that Jason has not been found guilty of murder. And, Jason has not even been arrested. That can not be disputed.

[gbmy]

<snipped>
No reputable lawyer would allow an innocent JY to ignore the WDS and be named a slayer in a court of law nor would a reputable lawyer recommend that he give up custody of his daughter.<snipped)

That's a very good question for experienced attorneys who have defended both innocent and guilty clients. I seem to recall right after this case some 'alleged' (can't know for sure) attorneys posted on this board that the advice Jason was given is not uncommon. Any attorneys out there like to comment? Any layman interested in asking that question on some legal board on the net? In the absence of answers from people who work in that field, we can only apply layman's knowledge to your questions.....and, I agree with you, the layman ought to be very, very suspicious of the silence as many are.

[gbmy]

I think all the searches are interesting, but the "divorce" one is particularly interesting to me.

Bet he didn't know until he looked it up, that in N.C. the spouse that "plays", is the spouse that pays.

Michelle could and would have most probably been awarded Alimony as well as child support, and could have stayed home with her two babies if she so chose and there wouldn't have been a thing in the world Jason could have done about it, except get to work.

Oops, I guess he did figure out a way around it. MOO.
Ok, so much of this information has been obtained from warrants and known for a long time by LE. All of the happenings in the hotel were also known for a long time by LE. The forensic evidence from the crime scene came back well over a year ago. So, there are those on this board that feel they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he left the hotel......they feel the same about placing him at the crime scene....they feel the same about motive......etc., etc. Yet, the head scratching continues about 'why no arrest despite all of this seemingly 'slam dunk' info against JY". And the answer? It's because they need to be sure to dot all the i's and cross all of the t's. My reply which I've stated many times before is that is rationale that, in the absence of new information, will be just as true in the year 2020, 2030, 2050, and beyond. Does any JDI disagree with this? If so, in the absence of new information, at what point would you not use this rationale?

[5swab5]

Right.......and in the absence of new information, the position you are taking would be equally as valid in the year 2030. That's because as many have pointed out, the amount of time to arrest is not indicative of the likelihood of his guilt. So, whether the investigation goes on 5 years or 50 years, it doesn't change the fact that our creator knows for a fact if JY is guilty or innocent. Now, putting divine knowledge aside, us mortals can certainly debate whether the passage of time without an arrest 'at some point' starts to be more indicative of innocence or not. Some will vehemently say no. Bottom line is, we don't know for sure. So, let the speculation continue. And while it does, the stubborn fact will remain that Jason has not been found guilty of murder. And, Jason has not even been arrested. That can not be disputed.

There is no statute of limitations on murder. The year 2030 is irrelevant. Jason is already in a prison of his own making.

He has LET himself be declared a slayer. He has LET himself lose PRIMARY physical custody of his only child and he has LET himself be in debt, to the tune of $15,573,104.40. I dare you to find a single instance on record, when an innocent man did these things. MOO

[gbmy]

There is no statute of limitations on murder. The year 2030 is irrelevant. Jason is already in a prison of his own making.

He has LET himself be declared a slayer. He has LET himself lose PRIMARY physical custody of his only child and he has LET himself be in debt, to the tune of $15,573,104.40. I dare you to find a single instance on record, when an innocent man did these things. MOO
That is true re: no statute of limitations. It is also true that LE and/or the DA don't believe they have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict OR, perhaps they do and are *choosing* not to arrest him for some reason that is open to more speculation. Everyone on this board would rightly answer that 'they don't know for sure' which it is. But, those same people can express their beliefs on what they think is more apt to be the case than not. I believe that it's more likely that they don't have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict. What's your belief?

[5swab5]

That is true re: no statute of limitations. It is also true that LE and/or the DA don't believe they have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict OR, perhaps they do and are *choosing* not to arrest him for some reason that is open to more speculation. Everyone on this board would rightly answer that 'they don't know for sure' which it is. But, those same people can express their beliefs on what they think is more apt to be the case than not. I believe that it's more likely that they don't have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict. What's your belief?

I believe LE and the DA want to seek the maximum penalty for this heinous crime. I don't believe they will move on it until they are 100% ready. Don't want to chance Smith insisting on a speedy trial or anything.

You talked about us all wearing either a JII hat or a JDI hat in an earlier post. IF you didn't wear a JII hat from the onset, just because you know/knew/...think you know/knew Jason, and someone told you all the information and asked you what you thought most likely happened, what would be your answer? MOO

[Jester]

I've pasted the relevant quote from your link below. It says nothing about finding a bloody footprint that matched Jasons's exact shoe size. Only words like 'similar' and 'same sole style'.........Nothing about the size.

"Records show that Jason Young purchased four pairs of shoes on July 4, 2005, including Hush Puppies with the same sole style as that found at the crime scene"

I can see that you are very reluctant to accept the fact that one of the bloody footprints was a match to shoes that Jason purchased about a year before the murder. I understand that you want Jason to be innocent, so it's understandable. As far as shoeprints go, it will never be said that a print found in November is identical to a shoe bought a year earlier. There will be daily wear on the sole of the shoe, so the best that can ever be said it that a print is similar to a shoe. The police have said that the bloody print is similar in size and style to a shoe purchased by Jason. Without the bloody shoe, no more can be said.

Do you want to comment on the fact that the second bloody print is a match (similar to) the print on the deck? Are you prepared to accept that it's possible that the person that stained the deck could have been at the murder scene? Does it not strike you as odd that this could be the clue to finding the murderer, yet Jason is unwilling to tell the police the name of the person that stained the deck?

Additionally, the information in the search warrant is far more detailed than the information in the media article. I suggest you have a look at the original source if you are skeptical about the similarity between bloody prints at the murder scene and Jason's shoe purchases.

[Jester]

Yes we know it wasn't true but do we know if Meredith said it to someone or not?

What we know is that Meredith has not compromised the investigation by discussing her experience with the public. This is a wise decision. It is possible that she has discussed her experience with close family, but it would be highly unusual if any of her relatives were foolish enough to post investigative information on the internet. Anyone that claims to know what Meredith did, said, thought, or saw cannot possibly be telling the truth.

I assumed that the information posted on the internet about Jason calling Meredith at 7:30 in the morning came from Jason or phone records. I now know that assumption was incorrect, as we have factual information from search warrants and know that Meredith was called after noon on November 3. It's not unusual for people to want to inject themselves into investigations and apparently the author of the 7:30 phone call is in that category. There was another poster that claimed to have attended the funeral, but that was also untrue.

[Jester]

Do we know if LE checked Jason's closet for those shoes? Jason's closet if we are to believe some was rummaged through. Did some or most of his things get sprayed with blood? If this is the case I would said the family threw away those shoes. LE didn't look for them for months after the murder.


The police would have to be stupid to see bloody prints at a crime scene and not look for the shoes. I think it's safe to assume that in the 10 days that police analyzed the crime scene, they looked for bloody shoes. Search warrants suggest that they are still looking for the bloody shoes.

[Jester]

When was it ever established that the size 10 Franklins were the shoes from the deck stain? I sure have never seen that.
I posted the link on page 2. The athletic, bloody shoe print matches the print on the deck. It has been stated by one of Jason's neighbors that Jason stained the deck and deck stain was found at the house. The problem, again, is that the shoes have vanished and Jason doesn't want to tell the police where they are. If he's innocent, he should produce them and clear his name.

[Jester]

The point i'm trying to make is maybe it was made by some other shoe than a Hush puppy. Maybe it was made by a woman's natualizer shoe?

Are you suggesting that the police, after months of research into the shoes, are mistaken?

[reborn]

Are you suggesting that the police, after months of research into the shoes, are mistaken?


I was asking if LE checked women shoes for an out sole match. I wasn't suggesting anything. The only suggestion I made was that the naturalizer out sole looked like the photo in the warrant.

[reborn]

What we know is that Meredith has not compromised the investigation by discussing her experience with the public. This is a wise decision. It is possible that she has discussed her experience with close family, but it would be highly unusual if any of her relatives were foolish enough to post investigative information on the internet. Anyone that claims to know what Meredith did, said, thought, or saw cannot possibly be telling the truth.

I assumed that the information posted on the internet about Jason calling Meredith at 7:30 in the morning came from Jason or phone records. I now know that assumption was incorrect, as we have factual information from search warrants and know that Meredith was called after noon on November 3. It's not unusual for people to want to inject themselves into investigations and apparently the author of the 7:30 phone call is in that category. There was another poster that claimed to have attended the funeral, but that was also untrue.


Wonder why Meredith isn't talking? Some want to believe Jason is mute because he killed Michelle.
Was there a poll taken of people that attended Michelles wake to see who all was there? Maybe this person you speak of just didn't sign the register. When I have attended wakes there have been books at the front to sign. I am assumning there was one for Michelle . Or did somebody just beat a confession out of this person?

[reborn]

The police would have to be stupid to see bloody prints at a crime scene and not look for the shoes. I think it's safe to assume that in the 10 days that police analyzed the crime scene, they looked for bloody shoes. Search warrants suggest that they are still looking for the bloody shoes.

Well you will have to pardon me but LE was so stupid they didn't do tests on the bedroom furniture that was covered with blood. They did tests after the furniture had been in storage for several months. Hows that for protecting the chain of evidence?

[reborn]

I saw a show on Forensic Files the other day, where the murdering husband had removed the soles from a pair of boots and glued them to the bottom of his bedroom shoes. This was originally done, because the guy wanted something more sturdy and waterproof to wear out to get the paper in the snow.

When they found the prints in the snow leading away from his wife's body, they knew exactly what "boots' they were looking for, but they couldn't find them in the guy's house.

What they did finally find, was little pieces of cut up boot soles, hidden all over the house, even in the children's toy box. Then they noticed the glue residue on the soles of his slippers and solved the case. Man, that guy must have loved those slippers. Keeping them cost him his freedom. MOO


I saw that show but it was a while back. Wasn't he a Dr?

[trucrime]

Wonder why Meredith isn't talking? Some want to believe Jason is mute because he killed Michelle.
Was there a poll taken of people that attended Michelles wake to see who all was there? Maybe this person you speak of just didn't sign the register. When I have attended wakes there have been books at the front to sign. I am assumning there was one for Michelle . Or did somebody just beat a confession out of this person?

re Meredith, first off she cant talk now due to the custody agreement to Cassidy. One could surmise if she went off on Jason in the press, he could use that against her by saying that was something maybe Cassidy could hear/read which would mean she broke their agreement. She's been cooperative with LE. They're the only ones IMO that she should be speaking to. She's not compromising the investigation by speaking out in the press. My guess is after he's arrested and goes to jail, she'll speak out then or when she has full custody of Cassidy. And reminder, Jason has never spoken to LE to help them find the killers of his unborn son & wife. I doubt he's calling to check on the status of their investigation either. IMO.

[Jester]

I was asking if LE checked women shoes for an out sole match. I wasn't suggesting anything. The only suggestion I made was that the naturalizer out sole looked like the photo in the warrant.

Men's shoes and women's shoes are designed quite differently. Men's shoes are D width, women's shoes are B width. Shoe size is directly related to a person's height. Are you aware of any 6'1" women with extraordinarily wide feet that may have wanted to murder a pregnant mother while her daughter slept nearby?

[Jester]

Wonder why Meredith isn't talking? Some want to believe Jason is mute because he killed Michelle.
Was there a poll taken of people that attended Michelles wake to see who all was there? Maybe this person you speak of just didn't sign the register. When I have attended wakes there have been books at the front to sign. I am assumning there was one for Michelle . Or did somebody just beat a confession out of this person?

Do you actually wonder why Meredith is not talking to people about her experience on the afternoon of November 3, 2006? Wouldn't it be prudent for her to refrain from speaking about the experience so as to preserve the integrity of the investigation? I in no way intended to suggest that she has not spoken with police. We know that she has.

As for the person that claimed to have attended Michelle's funeral, it's irrelevant. However, to answer your question, there were numerous irregularities between the claims and reality.

[Jester]

Well you will have to pardon me but LE was so stupid they didn't do tests on the bedroom furniture that was covered with blood. They did tests after the furniture had been in storage for several months. Hows that for protecting the chain of evidence?

Do you claim to know what tests were completed during the 10 days that police investigated the crime scene? Was the evidence tested and retested, or was it not tested?

[reborn]

Do you claim to know what tests were completed during the 10 days that police investigated the crime scene? Was the evidence tested and retested, or was it not tested?
I don't have time now to look up the warrant for the furniture but if I remember correctly it was not tested at the scene. I will look for warrant later.

[reborn]

Do you actually wonder why Meredith is not talking to people about her experience on the afternoon of November 3, 2006? Wouldn't it be prudent for her to refrain from speaking about the experience so as to preserve the integrity of the investigation? I in no way intended to suggest that she has not spoken with police. We know that she has.

As for the person that claimed to have attended Michelle's funeral, it's irrelevant. However, to answer your question, there were numerous irregularities between the claims and reality.


I though it was a rather foolish thing for the person to even bring up. Thats why I commented on it. I don't see were any relevance could be put on anyone at the funeral except the killer. I am almost 100 per cent sure he/she was there. I Could be wrong about that.

[reborn]

Men's shoes and women's shoes are designed quite differently. Men's shoes are D width, women's shoes are B width. Shoe size is directly related to a person's height. Are you aware of any 6'1" women with extraordinarily wide feet that may have wanted to murder a pregnant mother while her daughter slept nearby?

Well I am a small person so my shoes are probably b width. But if I'm not bad mistaken womens shoes do come in a wider width.

[Tia]

Do you actually wonder why Meredith is not talking to people about her experience on the afternoon of November 3, 2006? Wouldn't it be prudent for her to refrain from speaking about the experience so as to preserve the integrity of the investigation? I in no way intended to suggest that she has not spoken with police. We know that she has.

As for the person that claimed to have attended Michelle's funeral, it's irrelevant. However, to answer your question, there were numerous irregularities between the claims and reality.

Hi Jester,

Who claimed to be at the funeral? I vaguely remember it, but don't remember who it was.

[Jester]

Hi Jester,

Who claimed to be at the funeral? I vaguely remember it, but don't remember who it was.

The name escapes me, as the person that made the claims no longer posts on this forum. I cannot believe that anyone could claim to be a friend of Michelle, and then get on a message board after her funeral and callously discuss, or describe, the family during their time of grief. The only type of person that would do that is a looky lou, not a friend.

I raised the point as an example of someone that has attempted to inject herself into the investigation and perpetrate false information. Unfortunately, the 7:30 time frame for Jason phoning Meredith was not as easily identified as incorrect information.

[Tia]

The name escapes me, as the person that made the claims no longer posts on this forum. I cannot believe that anyone could claim to be a friend of Michelle, and then get on a message board after her funeral and callously discuss, or describe, the family during their time of grief. The only type of person that would do that is a looky lou, not a friend.

I raised the point as an example of someone that has attempted to inject herself into the investigation and perpetrate false information. Unfortunately, the 7:30 time frame for Jason phoning Meredith was not as easily identified as incorrect information.

Its coming back to me now!!

Thank you!

[reborn]

I posted the link on page 2. The athletic, bloody shoe print matches the print on the deck. It has been stated by one of Jason's neighbors that Jason stained the deck and deck stain was found at the house. The problem, again, is that the shoes have vanished and Jason doesn't want to tell the police where they are. If he's innocent, he should produce them and clear his name.


In the Feb 13 2008 warrant It was stated the print on the pillow and deck stain was similar.Agent Murray was to have made a study to see if they matched. So for you to say they matched is embellishing the facts. Unless you have a report from Agent Murray as to what he found. IMO


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

[Jester]

Well I am a small person so my shoes are probably b width. But if I'm not bad mistaken womens shoes do come in a wider width.

They sure do. We can accept that a woman may have worn the shoe, but we have to also take into consideration the size of the shoe. A shoe that is described as men's size 10 or 12, on a woman, indicates the woman was very tall. There's no way to get around the fact that the size of a foot is directly proportionate to a person's height. Can you think of any 6'1" women that would want to murder a pregnant woman while her 2 year old daughter was in the next room?

[Jester]

In the Feb 13 2008 warrant It was stated the print on the pillow and deck stain was similar.Agent Murray was to have made a study to see if they matched. So for you to say they matched is embellishing the facts. Unless you have a report from Agent Murray as to what he found. IMO


http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

Match, similar ... where are you going with this thought?

[reborn]

Do you claim to know what tests were completed during the 10 days that police investigated the crime scene? Was the evidence tested and retested, or was it not tested?

Well I found the warrant but still don't know if they looked for trace evidence at the scene. Its talks about photos and the close proximity to Michelle but thats about it. I am guessing they didn't test it and that is why they took it in 2008. I said I'm guessing .

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081353-20080818133840861.pdf

[reborn]

They sure do. We can accept that a woman may have worn the shoe, but we have to also take into consideration the size of the shoe. A shoe that is described as men's size 10 or 12, on a woman, indicates the woman was very tall. There's no way to get around the fact that the size of a foot is directly proportionate to a person's height. Can you think of any 6'1" women that would want to murder a pregnant woman while her 2 year old daughter was in the next room?

Well I don't think I personally know any one that would want to kill anyone. But you never know. O/T did you see what happened in NY today? I think we have taken God out of to much and we are seeing the harvest from this.

[reborn]

Match, similar ... where are you going with this thought?


I'm staying right here with it. Have you see any more reports since Agent Murray was working on it?

[Barbara2]

I'm staying right here with it. Have you see any more reports since Agent Murray was working on it?

I know that they have evidence that has not been made public. I know that the search warrant included information necessary to get the warrant signed but did not reveal everything. They don't want the murderer to know everything that they know. IMO

[gbmy]

I believe LE and the DA want to seek the maximum penalty for this heinous crime. I don't believe they will move on it until they are 100% ready. Don't want to chance Smith insisting on a speedy trial or anything.

You talked about us all wearing either a JII hat or a JDI hat in an earlier post. IF you didn't wear a JII hat from the onset, just because you know/knew/...think you know/knew Jason, and someone told you all the information and asked you what you thought most likely happened, what would be your answer? MOO
Right. You and I both agree that based on LE and/or the DA's standards of 'readiness', they don't think they have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 beyond a reasonable doubt to render a guilty verdict against Jason. If I took my 'hat' off I can honestly say that I have no idea what most likely happened that night.

[gbmy]

I know that they have evidence that has not been made public. I know that the search warrant included information necessary to get the warrant signed but did not reveal everything. They don't want the murderer to know everything that they know. IMO
Right, but you don't know what they know. And, given that, you can only comment on what they choose to share. Doing so makes for interesting discussion. Just saying they 'know more' and therefore it must support the point you're trying to make is not a basis for discussion. So, all I can say to that is, thank you for sharing that opinion.

[gbmy]

Match, similar ... where are you going with this thought?
When you're trying to prove someone is a murderer, saying that the prints are 'similar' is a 'suggestive' statement. Question is, 'how similar'? How close are they to being a match? We don't know so therefore, all we can do is look up the word similar and go with it. Similar does not equal same. You can go ahead and assume that's what they meant. That'd be an opinion/assumption which is cool.

[Barbara2]

Right, but you don't know what they know. And, given that, you can only comment on what they choose to share. Doing so makes for interesting discussion. Just saying they 'know more' and therefore it must support the point you're trying to make is not a basis for discussion. So, all I can say to that is, thank you for sharing that opinion.

O.K. As far as the public discussion, we'll leave it at that. :wink:

[Jester]

Well I found the warrant but still don't know if they looked for trace evidence at the scene. Its talks about photos and the close proximity to Michelle but thats about it. I am guessing they didn't test it and that is why they took it in 2008. I said I'm guessing .

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081353-20080818133840861.pdf

I hope investigators looked for trace evidence at the scene. Didn't they take something like 200 fingerprints? Granted, it wasn't a new house, but investigators systematically tried to match that trace evidence to people Michelle knew, without Jason's help. No wonder this investigation has taken time. Imagine trying to track down everyone Michelle and Jason had invited to the house, and Jason refusing to provide any names!

To take that many fingerprints, but forget to check for blood evidence seems bizarre. Do we know what a special machine was purchased for the investigation? That information must have become public in recent budget reviews, as it has been two years.

The police returned to the scene to measure parts of the bathroom in order to be more accurate with their bathroom blood evidence. If they checked furniture, could it have been for the same reason? ... to measure and give context to the evidence?

[Jester]

I'm staying right here with it. Have you see any more reports since Agent Murray was working on it?

No, but I did state my opinion on why police never state that any print is identical; that the best they can say, in terms of a match, is that a print is similar. It is never identical, particularly when there is a lot of time between the purchase sample and the bloody print, because there is daily wear on the sole of the shoe. The best that police can ever say is similar. This does not detract from the argument, as the print is either similar in pattern and size, or it isn't. Jason has chosen to not tell the police where he left six shoes he bought a year earlier, so for now, all we know is that the Jason bought a pair of shoes that would leave the same print as the bloody one found at the scene. Similarly, the print in the deckstain is similar in style and size (not wear) to another bloody print found on the pillow.

Do you expect the police to say that the print is an identical match, or a similar match?

[Jester]

When you're trying to prove someone is a murderer, saying that the prints are 'similar' is a 'suggestive' statement. Question is, 'how similar'? How close are they to being a match? We don't know so therefore, all we can do is look up the word similar and go with it. Similar does not equal same. You can go ahead and assume that's what they meant. That'd be an opinion/assumption which is cool.

I don't think anyone is trying to prove that anyone is a murderer. Michelle was murdered and the crime is unsolved more than two years later. The police continue their investigation in efforts to solve this extremely violent murder. There are two ways to describe a bloody footprint: similar match, or not a match. The print will never be identical.

In this case, the print is similar. It cannot be any stronger evidence than that.

[Jester]

I wonder if CAS was still in town during the murder. After all, she was there the week before, wasn't she. Wonder what size shoe she wore.

You think she was flopping around in men's size 10 shoes?

[Jester]

Jason could clear everything up if he could remember what he did with the shoes he bought in 2005 and misplaced in 2006. It should be difficult to lose 6 shoes in a year, but Jason did it.

If he could produce any of his six shoes they could be used to rule him out, as the wear pattern would be different. It could still be a similar match perhaps, but maybe it's not a match.

Shouldn't he take a chance and clear his name? His life is basically at a dead end until he is cleared.

[Jester]

I though it was a rather foolish thing for the person to even bring up. Thats why I commented on it. I don't see were any relevance could be put on anyone at the funeral except the killer. I am almost 100 per cent sure he/she was there. I Could be wrong about that.

Bolding mine ...

What person?

[reborn]

I wonder if CAS was still in town during the murder. After all, she was there the week before, wasn't she. Wonder what size shoe she wore.

She's little like me. I bet she would only wear about a 6 and a half shoe.

[reborn]

I hope investigators looked for trace evidence at the scene. Didn't they take something like 200 fingerprints? Granted, it wasn't a new house, but investigators systematically tried to match that trace evidence to people Michelle knew, without Jason's help. No wonder this investigation has taken time. Imagine trying to track down everyone Michelle and Jason had invited to the house, and Jason refusing to provide any names!

To take that many fingerprints, but forget to check for blood evidence seems bizarre. Do we know what a special machine was purchased for the investigation? That information must have become public in recent budget reviews, as it has been two years.

The police returned to the scene to measure parts of the bathroom in order to be more accurate with their bathroom blood evidence. If they checked furniture, could it have been for the same reason? ... to measure and give context to the evidence?


You know I never did hear what that special machine was for. I have no idea why they wanted the furniture over a year later. Wonder if they still have it? I just can't imagine a murder with all that blood happening in one room and there not being enough evidence to have absolute proof who the murderer was? It doesn't sound like from what I read that the room was cleaned up any. Murders are commited by complete strangers and solved every day. I really don't believe this was one of those. I think who ever killed Michelle knew her. I just don't know who it was. I guess that doesn't make me to dumb though because LE hasn't arrested anybody so they must not be sure either.

[reborn]

CAS' fingerprints were found in the house, prolly on Michelle's bed, since JY was doing her when Michelle went to NY. Gotta think LE is still crossing tees and dotting eyes on this sick chick.


You are just saying that. You don't even know if her husband was with her.

[reborn]

Bolding mine ...

What person?


The person that killed Michelle. Don't you think they were probably at the funeral? I don't think she was killed by someone she wasn't close to. I thought in the beginning it could have maybe been the neighbor kids . But kids aren't smart enought to pull off a 2 + year investigation.

[Psydwannabe]

Does one person usually do all of the discussion and then another takes their turn and so on and so on or, after all this time, are there no more items of interest to discuss? TIA

[Jester]

You know I never did hear what that special machine was for. I have no idea why they wanted the furniture over a year later. Wonder if they still have it? I just can't imagine a murder with all that blood happening in one room and there not being enough evidence to have absolute proof who the murderer was? It doesn't sound like from what I read that the room was cleaned up any. Murders are commited by complete strangers and solved every day. I really don't believe this was one of those. I think who ever killed Michelle knew her. I just don't know who it was. I guess that doesn't make me to dumb though because LE hasn't arrested anybody so they must not be sure either.

The special machine was part of the gov't budget from two years ago, and those expense reports should now be public.

I'll assume that investigators were thorough during their ten day investigation, and any additional information they collected was to clarify facts. Additional bathroom photographs were collected to clarify dimensions. The collection of deck boards was to rule out the possibility that the men's size 10 bloody print could be found anywhere else in the house - the same shoe imprints were found in the deck board stain. That ruled in Jason. Additional information gathered from the furniture in no way implies that furniture was overlooked during the investigation.

Jason did leave DNA in a blood smear on the wall, but there is a possibility that a pseudo-DNA expert, or friend of the defense, could misconstrue DNA evidence. Henry Lee tried to do it during the Spektor trial.

At least the police have a primary suspect. That's more than they had six months ago.

[Jester]

The person that killed Michelle. Don't you think they were probably at the funeral? I don't think she was killed by someone she wasn't close to. I thought in the beginning it could have maybe been the neighbor kids . But kids aren't smart enought to pull off a 2 + year investigation.

Jason was at the funeral.

[5swab5]

Right. You and I both agree that based on LE and/or the DA's standards of 'readiness', they don't think they have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12 beyond a reasonable doubt to render a guilty verdict against Jason. If I took my 'hat' off I can honestly say that I have no idea what most likely happened that night.

I think they have had enough for ages, but I think CW seems to be the kind of DA that always wants more. Colin is the one IN the Wake County Courtrooms, maybe he has noticed that peoples' deductive reasoning skills aren't what they used to be, or he knows people are reluctant to believe that a father and husband could do these horrible things to his wife and children, maybe he has noticed the so called "CSI" effect and jurors being so in tune with forensics and expecting a crime to be solved with all the bells and whistles in one hour, I just don't know.

Funny, you say that you have no idea what happened that night. I read and watch a lot of mysteries as well as follow true crime, I am always trying to figure out the ending. This case is one of the simplest puzzles I have ever attempted. MOO

[Barbara2]

There is another case that ended with a guilty verdict yesterday in another spousal homicide. It seems the jury found the husband guilty in part because he declared in the 911 call that his wife had fallen asleep and drowned in the bathtub. They felt that he should not have known that so it made them believe he was guilty. I think the jury in this case has a whole lot more to work with than that!!! IMO

[gbmy]

There is another case that ended with a guilty verdict yesterday in another spousal homicide. It seems the jury found the husband guilty in part because he declared in the 911 call that his wife had fallen asleep and drowned in the bathtub. They felt that he should not have known that so it made them believe he was guilty. I think the jury in this case has a whole lot more to work with than that!!! IMO
Don't know the degree to which this one item played into their decision, but if our divine creator knows the husband is innocent, he would have been better off keeping his mouth shut. You see how easy it is to take words and use them against someone? Now, I know zilch about the case you're referring too so I just offer this up to make a point.

[reborn]

There is another case that ended with a guilty verdict yesterday in another spousal homicide. It seems the jury found the husband guilty in part because he declared in the 911 call that his wife had fallen asleep and drowned in the bathtub. They felt that he should not have known that so it made them believe he was guilty. I think the jury in this case has a whole lot more to work with than that!!! IMO

There has been no indictment in this case . There has been no arrest in this case. There certainly isn't a jury in this case. I,m telling you those pesky 911 calls can really turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.

[reborn]

Does one person usually do all of the discussion and then another takes their turn and so on and so on or, after all this time, are there no more items of interest to discuss? TIA



There isn't much going on in this case now. What we have been doing is just giving our opinions on what evidence the warrants held. This forum is ran by Court TV so its pretty much a no nonsense forum. We are only allowed to post about the case here not other posters. Everyone here respects the fact that others might not share the same opinion as they do. If you want to give your opinion well welcome.

[Jules2]

There has been no indictment in this case . There has been no arrest in this case. There certainly isn't a jury in this case. I,m telling you those pesky 911 calls can really turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.

Those pesky little extra-marital affairs and google searches can also turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.


IMO of course

[reborn]

Nah, she was attending a realtors convention in town while hubby was home tieing flys.

Well since you seem to know her you should know how small she is. No those were not her shoe prints on the pillow. IMO

[5swab5]

There has been no indictment in this case . There has been no arrest in this case. There certainly isn't a jury in this case. I,m telling you those pesky 911 calls can really turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.

The 911 call is irrelevant, all of the SWs are directed at Jason. Meredith would have never even been in the position to make that call, if Jason hadn't sent her there.

The most important things to look at are all the little things that add up to motive.

Jason and Michelle Young were notorious for not getting along. Friends speak of infidelity, financial problems, possible divorce, fighting in public...huge loud fights that could last for hours and hours. Jason even punching holes in walls and ripping down a door.

We witness his attitude towards Michelle Young in a July 12th, 2006 email. I am in a mood that makes our trip to myrtle seem mild, pray the beer kicks in. I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning.

But there is another side of Jason.......

~ 980 phone contacts between Michelle Money and Jason from 10-4-06 until 11-3-06.

~ 50 phone contacts on 11-2-06, including the last call before Jason's phone quits pinging for approximately 8 hours are to Michelle Money.

One of the first, if not THE first call when Jason's phone starts pinging again on Nov.3rd, as well as the last call Jason makes before he gets back to Brevard are to Michelle Money.

Weekend of October 7th 2006, Jason travels to FL for a tryst with Michelle Money.

October 26th 2006, Jason emails Michelle Money, i feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but i do. This is ONE week before Michelle Young and Rylan are slaughtered.

Another woman is neither surprising nor original as a motive, it is one that we see again and again. Jason "had it bad", as bad as it comes. Jason told one friend that he was sick of Michelle Young and she was driving him crazy, while he told another (?...could be the same one, all we know is male) friend that he loved Michelle Money and believed that she loved him as well. In addition the friend says Jason Young stated, "Mrs. Money and her husband were trying to have a child, but Mrs. Money stated she hoped it would he his" (Jason's).

Since Michelle and Rylan's death, Jason has refused to assist LE by answering any questions, attend any of the Memorials and didn't even bother to erect a headstone on their grave.

But he still has had time for Michelle Money. We don't know how extensive, but we do know they have met at least once in Myrtle Beach and that there were 207 phone contacts between them from Dec. 18th 2007 and Jan. 25th 2008. I would wager that there are many, many more.

i don't know how all this happened, but i know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but, i don't care. i know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time.

MOO

[Barbara2]

There has been no indictment in this case . There has been no arrest in this case. There certainly isn't a jury in this case. I,m telling you those pesky 911 calls can really turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.

Those who are aware of that possibility make sure that someone else is the one who has to make the call and not the murderer himself. IMO

[Stellagant]

There has been no indictment in this case . There has been no arrest in this case. There certainly isn't a jury in this case. I,m telling you those pesky 911 calls can really turn out to be the best evidence in a murder trial.

I think there is a hotel wake-up call that can be added to that pesky mix as well.

[Doorbell]

I think there is a hotel wake-up call that can be added to that pesky mix as well.

What makes you think that? There has been no mention of it in any of the news reports or warrants.

[reborn]

The 911 call is irrelevant, all of the SWs are directed at Jason. Meredith would have never even been in the position to make that call, if Jason hadn't sent her there.

The most important things to look at are all the little things that add up to motive.

Jason and Michelle Young were notorious for not getting along. Friends speak of infidelity, financial problems, possible divorce, fighting in public...huge loud fights that could last for hours and hours. Jason even punching holes in walls and ripping down a door.

We witness his attitude towards Michelle Young in a July 12th, 2006 email. I am in a mood that makes our trip to myrtle seem mild, pray the beer kicks in. I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning.

But there is another side of Jason.......

~ 980 phone contacts between Michelle Money and Jason from 10-4-06 until 11-3-06.

~ 50 phone contacts on 11-2-06, including the last call before Jason's phone quits pinging for approximately 8 hours are to Michelle Money.

One of the first, if not THE first call when Jason's phone starts pinging again on Nov.3rd, as well as the last call Jason makes before he gets back to Brevard are to Michelle Money.

Weekend of October 7th 2006, Jason travels to FL for a tryst with Michelle Money.

October 26th 2006, Jason emails Michelle Money, i feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but i do. This is ONE week before Michelle Young and Rylan are slaughtered.

Another woman is neither surprising nor original as a motive, it is one that we see again and again. Jason "had it bad", as bad as it comes. Jason told one friend that he was sick of Michelle Young and she was driving him crazy, while he told another (?...could be the same one, all we know is male) friend that he loved Michelle Money and believed that she loved him as well. In addition the friend says Jason Young stated, "Mrs. Money and her husband were trying to have a child, but Mrs. Money stated she hoped it would he his" (Jason's).

Since Michelle and Rylan's death, Jason has refused to assist LE by answering any questions, attend any of the Memorials and didn't even bother to erect a headstone on their grave.

But he still has had time for Michelle Money. We don't know how extensive, but we do know they have met at least once in Myrtle Beach and that there were 207 phone contacts between them from Dec. 18th 2007 and Jan. 25th 2008. I would wager that there are many, many more.

i don't know how all this happened, but i know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but, i don't care. i know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time.

MOO


I don't know the point of your post. You are just saying a jumble of things that LE and the general public have known for over 2 years. LE hasn't made an arrest. Something in spite of all the things you have said is wrong. Something somewhere isn't adding up. I don't know what it is but LE does.

[Stellagant]

What makes you think that? There has been no mention of it in any of the news reports or warrants.

There is mention of a 12:01 AM time in the search warrant.

[kingbuff]

There is mention of a 12:01 AM time in the search warrant.

So you think that's where the 12:01 time stamp came from? He went to his room and left a wake-up call request? Hmmmm. Could be. I was thinking the time stamp might have come from a camera on his floor. Either way would provide proof he went up instead of out....which is what some of us have said for two years.

[Doorbell]

There is mention of a 12:01 AM time in the search warrant.


You think he ordered a wake-up call at Midnight? Well, I suppose that, if they keep records of automated things like that, we might find out eventually.

[Jester]

You think he ordered a wake-up call at Midnight? Well, I suppose that, if they keep records of automated things like that, we might find out eventually.

Wouldn't he have made any wake up call request when he was at the desk at midnight, rather than talk to the people at the desk, then go up to his room to phone down to make the request?

He's a lot of things, but he's definitely not that disorganized a thinker.

[Jester]

So you think that's where the 12:01 time stamp came from? He went to his room and left a wake-up call request? Hmmmm. Could be. I was thinking the time stamp might have come from a camera on his floor. Either way would provide proof he went up instead of out....which is what some of us have said for two years.

What do you think? Is Jason such a bumbling kind of guy that he would go to the front desk, then back up to his room, then phone down to the front desk to ask something that he should have thought about when he was at the front desk?

That sounds like a Mr Bean stunt.

[reborn]

What do you think? Is Jason such a bumbling kind of guy that he would go to the front desk, then back up to his room, then phone down to the front desk to ask something that he should have thought about when he was at the front desk?

That sounds like a Mr Bean stunt.

How every LE has done it they have a record of Jason for 3 minutes after he was seen in the hallway leading to the stairs and or exit. So where was he at that 12.01 time stamp? In the last paragraph of this warrant is states that the information will aid in identification of the participants of the person /or persons of Michelle's murder. I really believe LE has already affirmed Jason didn't leave that motel but they think he may have orchestrated Michelle's murder.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/03/11/4712929/March_10,_2009,_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young's_G oogle_account.pdf

[Jester]

How every LE has done it they have a record of Jason for 3 minutes after he was seen in the hallway leading to the stairs and or exit. So where was he at that 12.01 time stamp? In the last paragraph of this warrant is states that the information will aid in identification of the participants of the person /or persons of Michelle's murder. I really believe LE has already affirmed Jason didn't leave that motel but they think he may have orchestrated Michelle's murder.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/03/11/4712929/March_10,_2009,_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young's_G oogle_account.pdf

On what page is the 12:01 time stamp?

I see 12:10 when he phoned Meredith.

And what do you mean when you say "they have a record of Jason for 3 minutes?" I thought they only had a photograph.

If Jason had been ruled out, which would be the case if police knew he stayed at the hotel that night, he wouldn't have been in a position to give up his financial and custodial rights for the sake of keeping his mouth shut. He would be cleared. He's not cleared, so police have not been able to verify that he stayed at the hotel.

[Leanne Weich]

I think LE may be able to verify Jason as being in the hotel or in the vicinity ar 12.01 if that is when he turned his phone off. I doubt he used his cell phone to phone the reception desk for a wake-up call - that doesn't make any kind of sense, imo.

[Stellagant]

So you think that's where the 12:01 time stamp came from? He went to his room and left a wake-up call request? Hmmmm. Could be. I was thinking the time stamp might have come from a camera on his floor. Either way would provide proof he went up instead of out....which is what some of us have said for two years.

Jason took some kind of action at 12:01 AM and my guess is he left a wake-up call. The cell phone pings, phone calls, stops for gas and food are other actions he's taken that are mentioned in the search warrants. Here's what the search warrant says:

Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 0740 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006.

[Jester]

Jason took some kind of action at 12:01 AM and my guess is he left a wake-up call. The cell phone pings, phone calls, stops for gas and food are other actions he's taken that are mentioned in the search warrants. Here's what the search warrant says:

Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 0740 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006.

Taking that at face value, I would guess that between 12:01 and 7:40 Jason's phone was turned off, and no one saw him. What is the mystery about 12:01? That could be nothing more than the last time his phone pinged.

[kingbuff]

Jason took some kind of action at 12:01 AM and my guess is he left a wake-up call. The cell phone pings, phone calls, stops for gas and food are other actions he's taken that are mentioned in the search warrants. Here's what the search warrant says:

Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 0740 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006.

In the Feb. 9 SW, the detective seems to claim Jason gave the cops information as to his whereabouts until 12:01. That doesn't jibe with what we've heard for two years.

The detective also seems to claim Jason called MM at 11:42 pm and then shut down his phone before going downstairs. The detective seems to claim he knows where Jason was at 12:01. Where was he ? In his room calling for a wake-up ? on his way to his room ? back to talk to the clerk ? or somewhere else with a time stamp ?

[Kat4Eagles]

In the Feb. 9 SW, the detective seems to claim Jason gave the cops information as to his whereabouts until 12:01. That doesn't jibe with what we've heard for two years.

The detective also seems to claim Jason called MM at 11:42 pm and then shut down his phone before going downstairs. The detective seems to claim he knows where Jason was at 12:01. Where was he ? In his room calling for a wake-up ? on his way to his room ? back to talk to the clerk ? or somewhere else with a time stamp ?


KB, so good to see you!!..:seeya:

There are many, many, many things which need to be explained.

If, for instance, Michelle was starting to have doubts of Jason's faithfulness, he sure as heck better be where he said was, if she decided to check up on him.......

What if she decided to call his room if he was not answering his cell?

And, the hotel desk clerk tells her Mr. Young is not answering the room phone?

So, Michelle calls back , stating she really needs to talk with him, and could someone go knock on his door and have him call her?

Then, what happens if Jason is not there?

There is a good possibility that could have happened , since Michelle was alone, and if she needed to talk to him......

Or,for all we know, CY could have woken up and asked to talk to Daddy while he was away overnite, and wouldn't go to sleep until she did.

Jason would take a big chance of leaving his room with all the things that could have gone wrong, eye witnesses, car trouble,being pulled over for a traffic violation, construction, detours, weather, etc.............

Which reminds me, does anyone else think the eye witness account of the news carrier seeing a car similiar to Jason's in the driveway, is, maybe not holding up all that well?

Cause, why would that, alone, not be enough?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I think there is a hotel wake-up call that can be added to that pesky mix as well.


I have always thought something like this too.

I also can't see why changing yor mind about eating after being on the road for awhile , is incriminating either. :shrug:

When he first left, he was probably not that hungry, and then he sees all these billboard signs for Cracker Barrel, and, he changed his mind.

I think it was posted that when he left, that it was later then he had planned, and he probably wanted to get on the road and get some miles done.......

It is not that big of a deal........
JMO
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Does one person usually do all of the discussion and then another takes their turn and so on and so on or, after all this time, are there no more items of interest to discuss? TIA

:biggrin:

No, it does not work that way.
Anyone can start a discussion and it can end up going anywhere , or in this case no where...

We have pretty much covered anything and everything, and had there been an arrest in the first days or weeks, it would have been a much more easier case to follow.

However, after 29 months, we reached that number this weekend, it just seems to be, I hate to say, anti~climatic, but it appears to be that way.
Lots of people have gone on to post about other cases, this one seems to be stalled.......for some reason unknown to any of us....

Hope this helps, join in or jump in anywhere.!!
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Right, but you don't know what they know. And, given that, you can only comment on what they choose to share. Doing so makes for interesting discussion. Just saying they 'know more' and therefore it must support the point you're trying to make is not a basis for discussion. So, all I can say to that is, thank you for sharing that opinion.

I agree, and I am glad you are here with a new outlook and opinion.
I think I have burnt out on this case, so, feel free to speak for me, anytime..
:)
Kat

[Leanne Weich]

Getting back to the supected 12.01 wake up request - has anyone ever phoned the reception desk from their hotel room using their mobile phone. I know I would just pick up the phone in my room and dial reception rather than wasting a call and having to find the hotel no. to put into my cell phone. Doesn't make sense to me.

[Kat4Eagles]

Getting back to the supected 12.01 wake up request - has anyone ever phoned the reception desk from their hotel room using their mobile phone. I know I would just pick up the phone in my room and dial reception rather than wasting a call and having to find the hotel no. to put into my cell phone. Doesn't make sense to me.


I would still like to know why he remained at the hotel a full hour later, if he had a pre~med killing to attend.........

And, I want to know...

Why does someone who is going to murder their wife.......?

Tell people she is driving you crazy.
Tell people you don't know what to do with her.
Let people know you are fighting.
Take out a life insurance policy on her.

Mess around on her, with her friend...
Kill her in the home with their child there.
Not have a better excuse for someone to find her, then a stupid fax.
Not be dumb enough to do traceable suspicious searches on a computer.

Not call your girlfriend on the days before,during, and after the murder.
Jason couldn't think if he eliminated Michelle, that this would be a step of building a life with MM?
What about SM?
What was the plan for him?

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

I would still like to know why he remained at the hotel a full hour later, if he had a pre~med killing to attend.........

And, I want to know...

Why does someone who is going to murder their wife.......?

Tell people she is driving you crazy.
Tell people you don't know what to do with her.
Let people know you are fighting.
Take out a life insurance policy on her.

Mess around on her, with her friend...
Kill her in the home with their child there.
Not have a better excuse for someone to find her, then a stupid fax.
Not be dumb enough to do traceable suspicious searches on a computer.

Not call your girlfriend on the days before,during, and after the murder.
Jason couldn't think if he eliminated Michelle, that this would be a step of building a life with MM?
What about SM?
What was the plan for him?

Kat

Unless we can think like a murderer, I doubt we'll ever be able to answer those questions. Is there any one spousal murder that you've heard of that makes any sense to you? I know I will never understand it.

[Kat4Eagles]

Unless we can think like a murderer, I doubt we'll ever be able to answer those questions. Is there any one spousal murder that you've heard of that makes any sense to you? I know I will never understand it.


Of course not, but at least , if pre~med was your intention (not you, personally.....:biggrin:) then I think one would be more careful in one's actions and words leading up to the murder of one's wife/husband.

I mean, Jason practically made a map of everything pointing to him.......and handed it over.

At least, try to paint a pretty picture of a perfect marriage, so that if something happens, the cops aren't camped out on your doorstep.

Not that they have in this case, maybe there should have been more heat applied in the beginning, who knows?

But, at this point, at least, the way this Board and other forums covering the case, there really isn't a lot of interest anymore.

Maybe something will happen to ignite some news, but this is the first time I ever came back after the weekend, and saw such few posts......

I think we are all talked out........
JMO
Kat

[Leanne Weich]

It sure has got a bit old rehashing the same thing over and over again. I bet if and when an arrest is made, this forum will be hopping again. I don't think people have lost interest per se - just bored with the same old, same old.

I am not sure this was premeditated for a long time. I think events overtook Jason - he, imo, developed feelings for MM which made him more disenchanted with his marriage. The relationship with MM had kind of spun out of control and he acted without too much long-term thinking. I'm sure if he could hit replay, he'd probably have cooled his relationship with MM for a bit so he could have alleged a happy marriage. All this is obviously speculation on my part.

[Kat4Eagles]

It sure has got a bit old rehashing the same thing over and over again. I bet if and when an arrest is made, this forum will be hopping again. I don't think people have lost interest per se - just bored with the same old, same old.

I am not sure this was premeditated for a long time. I think events overtook Jason - he, imo, developed feelings for MM which made him more disenchanted with his marriage. The relationship with MM had kind of spun out of control and he acted without too much long-term thinking. I'm sure if he could hit replay, he'd probably have cooled his relationship with MM for a bit so he could have alleged a happy marriage. All this is obviously speculation on my part.

There hasn't been all that since the last s/w's were unsealed.
I would think people would be wondering what the hold~up is.
I certainly do not share any of the confidence some have expressed that L E is just building their case.

Many cases have been built on less.
Nope, I think something is very wrong in the investigation, even though they have obtained the WDS ruling, and named Jason as Michelle's slayer, they are unable to go forward with an arrest.

This is troubling......to me....and strengthens my beliefs that there must be something L E or the DA can not explain, including the possibility of other people being involved...
JMO.
Kat

[reborn]

There hasn't been all that since the last s/w's were unsealed.
I would think people would be wondering what the hold~up is.
I certainly do not share any of the confidence some have expressed that L E is just building their case.

Many cases have been built on less.
Nope, I think something is very wrong in the investigation, even though they have obtained the WDS ruling, and named Jason as Michelle's slayer, they are unable to go forward with an arrest.

This is troubling......to me....and strengthens my beliefs that there must be something L E or the DA can not explain, including the possibility of other people being involved...
JMO.
Kat

I think LE knows something and whatever it is it virtually clears Jason. The fact that he is feet away from an outside exit in that motel and they are giving a time stamp of knowing his whereabouts 3 minutes later tell me he went back up to his room. I think they believe he is behind the kill but not the killer. I personally think its time they looked elsewhere. Sometimes its hard to admit you are wrong . I think it galls the sheriff that he was played from day one and it wasn't by Jason Young. Now all that evidence he could have had is long gone.

[reborn]

On what page is the 12:01 time stamp?

I see 12:10 when he phoned Meredith.

And what do you mean when you say "they have a record of Jason for 3 minutes?" I thought they only had a photograph.

If Jason had been ruled out, which would be the case if police knew he stayed at the hotel that night, he wouldn't have been in a position to give up his financial and custodial rights for the sake of keeping his mouth shut. He would be cleared. He's not cleared, so police have not been able to verify that he stayed at the hotel.

Its on page 4 of this warrant. The other warrant was to show they are pursuing the idea of killers. Which is what a lot of us have thought all along. The record isn't for 3 minutes its 3 minutes after the photo. According to this warrant they know where he was 3 minutes after he was just feet from the exit. I thnk he went back to his room and they know he did.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

[reborn]

Getting back to the supected 12.01 wake up request - has anyone ever phoned the reception desk from their hotel room using their mobile phone. I know I would just pick up the phone in my room and dial reception rather than wasting a call and having to find the hotel no. to put into my cell phone. Doesn't make sense to me.


At 11:42 he hung up from MM and that was the last ping from his phone. I take that to mean he hung up and turned his cell phone off at 11:42. This warrant states same page he hasn't accounted for his whereabouts between the hours of 12:01 and 7:40. That tells me they knew where he was at 12:01. That was 3 minutes after the time stamp on the video heading toward the stairs and the exit. I think he took the stairs and they know he did.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

I think LE knows something and whatever it is it virtually clears Jason. The fact that he is feet away from an outside exit in that motel and they are giving a time stamp of knowing his whereabouts 3 minutes later tell me he went back up to his room. I think they believe he is behind the kill but not the killer. I personally think its time they looked elsewhere. Sometimes its hard to admit you are wrong . I think it galls the sheriff that he was played from day one and it wasn't by Jason Young. Now all that evidence he could have had is long gone.


Hi Reborn..:seeya:
Well, whatever it is , it has been enough to keep them from making any arrests, that's for sure.

Time permitting, I will stop by once in awhile to see if there is any progress.....and hopefully, we will all someday see justice for Michelle......

:rose:
Kat

[reborn]

I found the site that has a photo of Jason at the front desk of the motel. If you look at the shirt in reference to his face and hand coloring that doesn't look like the black shirt shown in the hallway. I have read before where some think the shirt may have been a lot lighter in color and that is why LE has failed to locate it. Maybe they are looking for a very dark shirt and it isn't one. Sure doesn't look very much darker than his hand. IMO

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/5-vt136.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

[reborn]

Hi Reborn..:seeya:
Well, whatever it is , it has been enough to keep them from making any arrests, that's for sure.

Time permitting, I will stop by once in awhile to see if there is any progress.....and hopefully, we will all someday see justice for Michelle......

:rose:
Kat


Hi Kat, Good to see you. I live in a house of sickness so my time on here is when all is going well in the house. The case doesn't seem to be going anywhere . Is tomorrow GJ day? I lose track of these things. I will continue to be around . Stop back soon as not many people are still posting.

[gbmy]

I agree, and I am glad you are here with a new outlook and opinion.
I think I have burnt out on this case, so, feel free to speak for me, anytime..
:)
Kat
I get burnt out too Kat......That's why I tend to pop in and out. It gives me a fresh perspective when I join back in. I believe this case is going to have a surprise ending. How it will end is anyone's best guess. What breaks my heart is that Michelle's family still does not have closure. Sure, they may 'think' they know who did it. They may have won a civil judgement...... not by virtue of a challenge, but rather by forfeit........

Unfortunately, nothing can bring Michelle back. So, all that they have our memories, faith, and the hope for closure. No doubt, the DA must take their time to maximize the chances of getting a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict. As 5SWAB5 accurately pointed out, there is no statute of limitations on murder. But, let's hypothetically say the real killer is 45 years old and our creator knows this person will die at age 90. I have no idea how old Linda is, so I'll just throw a # out there and say 50. Let's say the DA has a mountain of evidence right now to the tune of feeling they are 98% confident they can get a guilty verdict but want to wait until they are 99.5%.......so, they wait...and wait....and wait. Finally, in 40 years when the killer is 85 and Linda is 90, they make an arrest and a jury of 12 renders a guilty verdict. Did they do the right thing by waiting? Or, would it have been better to take an ever so slight increased risk to make an arrest 40 years earlier when they were 98% confident?

[gbmy]

I think LE knows something and whatever it is it virtually clears Jason. The fact that he is feet away from an outside exit in that motel and they are giving a time stamp of knowing his whereabouts 3 minutes later tell me he went back up to his room. I think they believe he is behind the kill but not the killer. I personally think its time they looked elsewhere. Sometimes its hard to admit you are wrong . I think it galls the sheriff that he was played from day one and it wasn't by Jason Young. Now all that evidence he could have had is long gone.
reborn, I agree with your opinion. Some will say that's ridiculous and they are simply doing their jobs, taking their time, etc.. And, they may be right. After all, then all SWs are seemingly pointing in 1 direction and they keep saying they are making 'progress', then I can definitely understand this position. But, the scenario you've just described is also one that makes sense. Time will tell.

[Barbara2]

reborn, I agree with your opinion. Some will say that's ridiculous and they are simply doing their jobs, taking their time, etc.. And, they may be right. After all, then all SWs are seemingly pointing in 1 direction and they keep saying they are making 'progress', then I can definitely understand this position. But, the scenario you've just described is also one that makes sense. Time will tell.

The only problem is that it doesn't match up with known evidence. The last known time stamp from the search warrants is not 11:48.

[gbmy]

I found the site that has a photo of Jason at the front desk of the motel. If you look at the shirt in reference to his face and hand coloring that doesn't look like the black shirt shown in the hallway. I have read before where some think the shirt may have been a lot lighter in color and that is why LE has failed to locate it. Maybe they are looking for a very dark shirt and it isn't one. Sure doesn't look very much darker than his hand. IMO

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/5-vt136.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100
Wow, thanks for posting this. So, clearly he has the same shirt on at 11:59:07 as he had on 33 seconds later at 11:59:40. And yes, the one at 11:59:07 doesn't look all that dark to me. Funny how the lighting on photos can skew things.

[Doorbell]

Wow, thanks for posting this. So, clearly he has the same shirt on at 11:59:07 as he had on 33 seconds later at 11:59:40. And yes, the one at 11:59:07 doesn't look all that dark to me. Funny how the lighting on photos can skew things.

Those pictures are the same shirt.

They are not the same as the shirt he wore when he checked in. Nobody suggested he changed shirts in 33 seconds.

I can't remember which warrant all those pics are from, but the check in picture is a different shirt.

[Kat4Eagles]

I get burnt out too Kat......That's why I tend to pop in and out. It gives me a fresh perspective when I join back in. I believe this case is going to have a surprise ending. How it will end is anyone's best guess. What breaks my heart is that Michelle's family still does not have closure. Sure, they may 'think' they know who did it. They may have won a civil judgement...... not by virtue of a challenge, but rather by forfeit........

Unfortunately, nothing can bring Michelle back. So, all that they have our memories, faith, and the hope for closure. No doubt, the DA must take their time to maximize the chances of getting a jury of 12 to render a guilty verdict. As 5SWAB5 accurately pointed out, there is no statute of limitations on murder. But, let's hypothetically say the real killer is 45 years old and our creator knows this person will die at age 90. I have no idea how old Linda is, so I'll just throw a # out there and say 50. Let's say the DA has a mountain of evidence right now to the tune of feeling they are 98% confident they can get a guilty verdict but want to wait until they are 99.5%.......so, they wait...and wait....and wait. Finally, in 40 years when the killer is 85 and Linda is 90, they make an arrest and a jury of 12 renders a guilty verdict. Did they do the right thing by waiting? Or, would it have been better to take an ever so slight increased risk to make an arrest 40 years earlier when they were 98% confident?


I also predicted a surprise ending, but right now, I would settle for any kind of ending.!!

It bugs me that they can not solve this crime, or, that I don't know why.

I can't think of any thing that we haven't covered here!!

I don't know, but it is almost sad to see the Board come down to so few posts, when this was once one of the busiest and most read forums.

I know I posted thousands here!!

Look at the things that have happened since Michelle's murder, if you are putting time in context.

Michelle's father passed away
CY has had 3 birthdays without her Mom
We have a new President
3 Super Bowls have been played
3 Thanksgivings
3 Christmases
3 New Years
Michelle missed 3 of her birthdays
The baby would be 2 years old now, and getting ready for an Easter egg hunt with his big sister.
So many things will never happen for them....

:(

Kat

[reborn]

Those pictures are the same shirt.

They are not the same as the shirt he wore when he checked in. Nobody suggested he changed shirts in 33 seconds.

I can't remember which warrant all those pics are from, but the check in picture is a different shirt.The shirt in these 2 photos are the same . The shirt looks lighter at the front desk. Not much darker than Jason's skin color. The shirt looks black in the hall way photo.

[reborn]

Kat what makes this even sadder is that when you look at the big picture it doesn't really matter but to a very few people. The effect this has had on Cassie won't be know for years to come if ever. What bothers me is that Wake County allowed one of theirs to express his opinion in a court of law ,yes it was a civil court but a court none the less. If this det. is of the opinion that Jason killed his wife then Wake County should be able to back that statement up with evidence and charge him. He wasn't there as a citizen of Wake County he was there speaking as a Wake County representative. When you add to that the several photos that we have seen of this det. and the family he is siding with makes one believe that he is very biased in his thinking. I think Wake County should remove this det. and replace him with someone that isn't biased in the case. Maybe a new set of eyes are needed. How can this det. be expected to keep an open mind , as I believe a det should when he has already shown how biased he is? This det. IMOO has made Wake County LE look very weak.

[5swab5]

(snipped) When you add to that the several photos that we have seen of this det. and the family he is siding with makes one believe that he is very biased in his thinking. I think Wake County should remove this det. and replace him with someone that isn't biased in the case. Maybe a new set of eyes are needed. How can this det. be expected to keep an open mind , as I believe a det should when he has already shown how biased he is? This det. IMOO has made Wake County LE look very weak.


What a ludicrous idea. Should Donnie Harrison also be removed from office, because he attended a "Lady Bug Lift Off" in Michelle's honor? Since when can't LE empathize with crime victims and pay their respects?

Hoping that Spivey will "go away" is a waste of a wish. Spivey isn't going anywhere, he will once again be front and center testifying against Jason in the criminal trial.

LE and crime victims keep in touch during an ongoing investigation, I have seen it referenced many, many times during reenactments of cases that took some time to get to trial. Brace yourself, the Prosecutor's Office is included in those that get familiar with families seeking justice.:biggrin:

IF Jason wanted his picture taken with Spivey, maybe he should have gone to one of Michelle's Memorials or appeared in Court to defend his name, daughter or bank account. Better yet he could go downtown, I'm sure they would be glad to make a whole video. MOO

[annalyzer]

Kat what makes this even sadder is that when you look at the big picture it doesn't really matter but to a very few people. ~snip

It matters to as many people as any brutal murder of a young pregnant woman. It matters to family, friends, co-workers, extended family and thousands of people who didn't even know Michelle but demand justice for heinous crimes such as this.

I keep hoping when I come here to learn an arrest has been made. Someday......

[Jester]

Its on page 4 of this warrant. The other warrant was to show they are pursuing the idea of killers. Which is what a lot of us have thought all along. The record isn't for 3 minutes its 3 minutes after the photo. According to this warrant they know where he was 3 minutes after he was just feet from the exit. I thnk he went back to his room and they know he did.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Thanks for clarifying. Do we know that this time of 12:01 is not the last ping on his cell phone? Since the warrant references cell tower information, and the following statement is that police have no knowledge of his whereabouts between 12:01 AM and 7:40 AM, isn't the most obvious interpretation that 12:01 and 7:40 refer to his cell phone activity?

What I understand from this section of the warrant is that Jason walked out the door and turned off his cell phone.

[reborn]

Thanks for clarifying. Do we know that this time of 12:01 is not the last ping on his cell phone? Since the warrant references cell tower information, and the following statement is that police have no knowledge of his whereabouts between 12:01 AM and 7:40 AM, isn't the most obvious interpretation that 12:01 and 7:40 refer to his cell phone activity?

What I understand from this section of the warrant is that Jason walked out the door and turned off his cell phone.
It states right in the warrant. The last call was at 11:42 to MM. Its says this signals the last cell ping. The next cell ping was at 7:40 AM on the 3rd of Nov. So that means the last cell ping was at 11:42 and the next was 7:40. So according to the warrant the 12:01 had nothing to do with cell phones. I am not that familiar with wake up calls. Would the lady at the desk have told him he had to dial from his room to get a wake up call? Could he have gone to his room and called for a wake up and that is the 12:01 time stamp? Does anyone know how wake up calls are handled? When I travel its at my convience and I wake up when I wake up.

[reborn]

What a ludicrous idea. Should Donnie Harrison also be removed from office, because he attended a "Lady Bug Lift Off" in Michelle's honor? Since when can't LE empathize with crime victims and pay their respects?

Hoping that Spivey will "go away" is a waste of a wish. Spivey isn't going anywhere, he will once again be front and center testifying against Jason in the criminal trial.

LE and crime victims keep in touch during an ongoing investigation, I have seen it referenced many, many times during reenactments of cases that took some time to get to trial. Brace yourself, the Prosecutor's Office is included in those that get familiar with families seeking justice.:biggrin:

IF Jason wanted his picture taken with Spivey, maybe he should have gone to one of Michelle's Memorials or appeared in Court to defend his name, daughter or bank account. Better yet he could go downtown, I'm sure they would be glad to make a whole video. MOO


Maybe be ludicrous to you but should an officer of the law be giving his opinion in any court if he can't back it up with evidence? If he can back it up with evidence then why haven't they done so? He either has the evidence or he doesn't . He implied that he did. Shouldn't we then be expecting an arrest? How many months now and still no arrest? I don't recall ever seeing a photo of the DA with the Fishers. I must have missed it. :biggrin:

[5swab5]

Maybe be ludicrous to you but should an officer of the law be giving his opinion in any court if he can't back it up with evidence? If he can back it up with evidence then why haven't they done so? He either has the evidence or he doesn't . He implied that he did. Shouldn't we then be expecting an arrest? How many months now and still no arrest? I don't recall ever seeing a photo of the DA with the Fishers. I must have missed it. :biggrin:

Apparently he provided enough evidence in the WDS to Judge Osmond Smith for him to award the Fishers $15,573,104.40. That seems like he met his burden to me. MOO

[5swab5]

It states right in the warrant. The last call was at 11:42 to MM. Its says this signals the last cell ping. The next cell ping was at 7:40 AM on the 3rd of Nov. So that means the last cell ping was at 11:42 and the next was 7:40. So according to the warrant the 12:01 had nothing to do with cell phones. I am not that familiar with wake up calls. Would the lady at the desk have told him he had to dial from his room to get a wake up call? Could he have gone to his room and called for a wake up and that is the 12:01 time stamp? Does anyone know how wake up calls are handled? When I travel its at my convience and I wake up when I wake up.

Maybe Jason logged onto his laptop. My goodness, he hadn't been in contact with Michelle Money for about 17 minutes and knew that he couldn't be for several more hours. After only 50 contacts that day, he was probably going through withdrawal. MOO

[trucrime]

Apparently he provided enough evidence in the WDS to Judge Osmond Smith for him to award the Fishers $15,573,104.40. That seems like he met his burden to me. MOO

ITA. Judges dont award WD judgments based on nothing. IMO.

[trucrime]

Kat what makes this even sadder is that when you look at the big picture it doesn't really matter but to a very few people. The effect this has had on Cassie won't be know for years to come if ever. What bothers me is that Wake County allowed one of theirs to express his opinion in a court of law ,yes it was a civil court but a court none the less. If this det. is of the opinion that Jason killed his wife then Wake County should be able to back that statement up with evidence and charge him. He wasn't there as a citizen of Wake County he was there speaking as a Wake County representative. When you add to that the several photos that we have seen of this det. and the family he is siding with makes one believe that he is very biased in his thinking. I think Wake County should remove this det. and replace him with someone that isn't biased in the case. Maybe a new set of eyes are needed. How can this det. be expected to keep an open mind , as I believe a det should when he has already shown how biased he is? This det. IMOO has made Wake County LE look very weak.

Perhaps in your opinion the Det should be removed, but I dont share that opinion. I think they're still working on it and when its presented it will be a very powerful case against JY overall. Im sure they will "back it up" as you're saying they should. Its MO Jason will eventually be arrested for the criminal portion of the case. Police Depts that can crack hard to solve cases, even cold/old crimes, show strength with never giving up. IMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

ITA. Judges dont award WD judgments based on nothing. IMO.


.............but, the burden of proof is much lower and Jason did not answer the suit.

Why don't they take this same powerful evidence (if it exists) and see if what they have is enough to get an indictment.......?

Why won't they do that, if they are so sure Jason killed his wife?

That's all we are asking, and have been asking for months and months and months.

Kat

[reborn]

Apparently he provided enough evidence in the WDS to Judge Osmond Smith for him to award the Fishers $15,573,104.40. That seems like he met his burden to me. MOO


The WDS was uncontested so it was by default. Had nothing what so ever to do with evidence.

[reborn]

Perhaps in your opinion the Det should be removed, but I dont share that opinion. I think they're still working on it and when its presented it will be a very powerful case against JY overall. Im sure they will "back it up" as you're saying they should. Its MO Jason will eventually be arrested for the criminal portion of the case. Police Depts that can crack hard to solve cases, even cold/old crimes, show strength with never giving up. IMO.

It ok that you don't share my opinion. Wouldn't it be a dull world if we all agreed on everything? We would all be like the Stepford wives. Remember they were robots. LOL Jason could very well be arrested but I have one other suspect in mind. I guess or should say hope time will tell. I hope someone pays for Michelle and her son. How sad if they don't.

[Jester]

It states right in the warrant. The last call was at 11:42 to MM. Its says this signals the last cell ping. The next cell ping was at 7:40 AM on the 3rd of Nov. So that means the last cell ping was at 11:42 and the next was 7:40. So according to the warrant the 12:01 had nothing to do with cell phones. I am not that familiar with wake up calls. Would the lady at the desk have told him he had to dial from his room to get a wake up call? Could he have gone to his room and called for a wake up and that is the 12:01 time stamp? Does anyone know how wake up calls are handled? When I travel its at my convience and I wake up when I wake up.

I plead guilty to skimming over the words and only looking for the time. You're quite right, it does say the last recorded ping activity is earlier. Could the 12:01 time indicate the time of interest on November 3? That is, Michelle was murdered on November 3, so police are only interested in the activities of suspects on that particular day. In the search warrant, it states that they do not know anything about Jason's activities on November 3 from 12:01 AM until 7:40 AM.

Since there is nothing suspicious or interesting about 12:01, I think we need to look for the face value interpretation. It's probably nothing more than stating what they know about November 3, 2006.

[5swab5]

The WDS was uncontested so it was by default. Had nothing what so ever to do with evidence.

The fact that Jason chose not to appear in court in the WDS, resulted in the uncontested title of Slayer being bestowed upon him. In the penalty phase of the WDS on March 16th of this year, there most certainly was evidence and testimony presented in court.

Michelle and Rylan were represented in court and Judge Osmond Smith found for the Fisher family in a judgment against Jason for $15,573,104.40. With no evidence, they would not have received the judgment. MOO

[Jester]

Without reading pages of comments about 12:01, where did this discussion start? That is, who first wanted to read something special into the time of 12:01 on November 3, 2006? It seems so obvious that it's nothing more than stating time on November 3 when Jason is unaccounted for, with the operative phrase being "on November 3, 2006."

[reborn]

Without reading pages of comments about 12:01, where did this discussion start? That is, who first wanted to read something special into the time of 12:01 on November 3, 2006? It seems so obvious that it's nothing more than stating time on November 3 when Jason is unaccounted for, with the operative phrase being "on November 3, 2006."


You could be right. But my question would be why didn't they use the time on the video in the hallway if it was just for Jason's accountability. I think they must have a time stamp that puts him somewhere at 12:01. They used the correct time on the pings. If I remember correctly someone mentioned the time stamp a few pages back. I have always questioned why the ME can get to within a 15 minutes time of death on JA and they have a 6 hr. time span on Michelle. That just blows my mind. I have looked at a lot of cases and never seen such a long time of death span. Now if she had been dead a week or some real long time I could see it but we know she was alive at 10:30 on the 2nd. of Nov. How do they know she wasn't killed at say 11:00 on the 2nd? Wonder where they came up with the 12:00to 6:00 time line? I have never seen any explanation for that have you?

[reborn]

The fact that Jason chose not to appear in court in the WDS, resulted in the uncontested title of Slayer being bestowed upon him. In the penalty phase of the WDS on March 16th of this year, there most certainly was evidence and testimony presented in court.

Michelle and Rylan were represented in court and Judge Osmond Smith found for the Fisher family in a judgment against Jason for $15,573,104.40. With no evidence, they would not have received the judgment. MOO


Yes there was evidence but if there had not been the judge would still have rendered a judgment. That was decided when Jason failed to respond. This last court date was just to decide on the amount. If LF had sued you and you failed to respond it would be you setting in Jason's seat today.

[Leanne Weich]

Without reading pages of comments about 12:01, where did this discussion start? That is, who first wanted to read something special into the time of 12:01 on November 3, 2006? It seems so obvious that it's nothing more than stating time on November 3 when Jason is unaccounted for, with the operative phrase being "on November 3, 2006."

I think you've hit the nail on the head Jester. I hadn't thought of this .. makes sense in that TOD has not been released. I do believe that is one of the things they're keeping to themselves. I don't, for a minute, believe the ME hasn't been able to narrow the TOD down to less than a six hour window. Good deduction on your part, imo.

[5swab5]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Jester. I hadn't thought of this .. makes sense in that TOD has not been released. I do believe that is one of the things they're keeping to themselves. I don't, for a minute, believe the ME hasn't been able to narrow the TOD down to less than a six hour window. Good deduction on your part, imo.

I have always believed that one of the reasons Jason did not have the upstairs heating system fixed, was that he was hoping the colder temps would confound the authorities about the TOD. MOO

[Barbara2]

Without reading pages of comments about 12:01, where did this discussion start? That is, who first wanted to read something special into the time of 12:01 on November 3, 2006? It seems so obvious that it's nothing more than stating time on November 3 when Jason is unaccounted for, with the operative phrase being "on November 3, 2006."

I'm sure that you are right. They focused on November 3rd and that is the reason for the 12:01 time until the time that they know that he was back in that area. IMO

[tiny paw-prints]

It ok that you don't share my opinion. Wouldn't it be a dull world if we all agreed on everything? We would all be like the Stepford wives. Remember they were robots. LOL Jason could very well be arrested but I have one other suspect in mind. I guess or should say hope time will tell. I hope someone pays for Michelle and her son. How sad if they don't.

Yeah, whatever. Jason has never assisted the investigators in finding the real killer. Isn't that sad???

[reborn]

Yeah, whatever. Jason has never assisted the investigators in finding the real killer. Isn't that sad???

There are strangers that kill people and LE solves the cases. I don't think this case hasn't been solved because Jason hasn't assisted with the investigation.

[Leanne Weich]

I have always believed that one of the reasons Jason did not have the upstairs heating system fixed, was that he was hoping the colder temps would confound the authorities about the TOD. MOO

Swabbie, do you believe this murder was premeditated that long in advance? I personally don't think so or I think Jason would have put his relationship with MM on hold so as it would not look like his unhappy marriage could be a motive. Had he cooled it with MM, he could have said he'd had an extra-marital affair during a difficult time in his marriage and that he and MY had resolved their problems. Of course though, if the therapist had knowledge of marital discord, that wouldn't help him much. Call me confused on what I believe!!

[Jester]

You could be right. But my question would be why didn't they use the time on the video in the hallway if it was just for Jason's accountability. I think they must have a time stamp that puts him somewhere at 12:01. They used the correct time on the pings. If I remember correctly someone mentioned the time stamp a few pages back. I have always questioned why the ME can get to within a 15 minutes time of death on JA and they have a 6 hr. time span on Michelle. That just blows my mind. I have looked at a lot of cases and never seen such a long time of death span. Now if she had been dead a week or some real long time I could see it but we know she was alive at 10:30 on the 2nd. of Nov. How do they know she wasn't killed at say 11:00 on the 2nd? Wonder where they came up with the 12:00to 6:00 time line? I have never seen any explanation for that have you?

Was there a time that Jason can be accounted for, in the hallway or with cell phone pings, after 12:01 on November 3? That was rhetorical. There weren't. Therefore the start time for his silence/muteness on November 3, 2006 starts at 12:01 and ends at 7:41. That's rather suspicious under the circumstances.

If you think Jason was accounted for at 12:01, why isn't it stated in the warrant?

The police have not specified an exact time of death. Initially, they were interested in the time period between midnight and 4 AM; within hours that time was extended to 6 AM. That's as much as we, the public, knows about the time of death. It is possible, in that time range, for Jason to drive home, murder, and be back on the road at 7:43 (or whatever time it was), chatting happily with his girlfriend. He saw pain in his future, but it was worth it.

Regarding the time of death, police have identified a 6 hour timespan as the time of death based on expected vital stats given room temperature and other relevant factors. I doubt anyone here can explain how time of death is determined, but there are medical and forensic journals online where you can read everything you ever wanted to know about blood spatter, blood coagulation, room temperature, humidity, and other gory details.

[Jester]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Jester. I hadn't thought of this .. makes sense in that TOD has not been released. I do believe that is one of the things they're keeping to themselves. I don't, for a minute, believe the ME hasn't been able to narrow the TOD down to less than a six hour window. Good deduction on your part, imo.

All I remember about the time of death is that the police stated that they were interested in the time period between midnight and 4 AM, later extended to 6 AM. We assumed that was the time of death, but I have never read anything more accurate.

[Jester]

Do you disagree that the mystery time of 12:01 is nothing more than the beginning of November 3, 2006, the first time on November 3 that Jason is missing, unaccounted for, mute, silent? Or, do you think that this time signifies some secret that the police don't want to state in the search warrant?

[5swab5]

Swabbie, do you believe this murder was premeditated that long in advance? I personally don't think so or I think Jason would have put his relationship with MM on hold so as it would not look like his unhappy marriage could be a motive. Had he cooled it with MM, he could have said he'd had an extra-marital affair during a difficult time in his marriage and that he and MY had resolved their problems. Of course though, if the therapist had knowledge of marital discord, that wouldn't help him much. Call me confused on what I believe!!


I don't think Jason could have left Michelle Money alone and it have made any difference. It sounds like Jason resented the marriage and was unfaithful from the start. He wanted his carefree, bachelor lifestyle and nothing like a "little piece of paper" was going to stand in the way of that. The very acts were not only spiteful but in Michelle's face. I have a feeling that Jason's inflated ideas of entitlement go all the way back to his childhood.

We have heard a lot about their marriage, it was not a marriage of love, trust, respect and caring or even minimal kindness. Probably THE biggest insult to a wife, is to sleep with one of her friends, one would have to have been raised in a cave not to know this unwritten law. Volatile fights and "teasing". Well, one man's teasing is another's torture.

Alan talked about Jason being a chameleon, we have seen this in other spousal murders. Jason was different things to different people, he bends and conforms depending on what the situation calls for. It is a tiring existence, you can't be all things to all people. He knew he couldn't come up with the proper response at Alan's tribute in his home to Michelle, so Jason avoided it. Contrary to what Defense Attorneys would have us believe, everyone knows how to grieve, except those that simply don't care. Losing Michelle was not a negative in Jason's life at that point, it was relief if not euphoria.

I imagine Jason had been contemplating and sorta running different scenarios through his mind for some time. It would seem that things changed sometime that Spring. Another pregnancy, followed by an accident that resulted in the loss of the baby. Separate vacations. (Weren't the wills and insurance policy revisited..can't remember those exact dates) We have heard a lot about financial troubles, while we can't know to what extent or when they started, it doesn't seem that taking one's family to California is a reasonable way to show good faith to your spouse that you will be watching what you spend. Jason doesn't have the most stellar record of employment and how he has avoided "sexual harassment" charges is beyond me. Perhaps he was feeling impotent and in the next few months, things just came to a head.

Several posters early on even said that Michelle thought Jason was depressed around the time of the murders, because he was being so quiet and distant. I think he was sullen and pensive, deep in the planning stages of her and Rylan's murders. I believe Michelle's fate was sealed the day she conceived Cassidy. Even if they hadn't gotten married and lord knows they shouldn't have, if Michelle had decided to keep Cassidy...I believe Jason would have eventually killed her. MOO

[reborn]

A collection of my opinions about the case.

We know Jason Was in the motel close to midnight on the 2nd. of Nov. We know he was in Wytheville Va at 7:40AM on the 3rd. That gives him 7 hrs and 40minutes to drive to Raleigh kill Michelle, give Cassie a bath and medicate her ,take a shower and put on his business suit for his meeting and drive back to Wytheville Va.
According to mapquest its 172 miles from Hillsville to Raleigh. Estimated driving time 2 hrs. 57 minutes. From Raleigh to Wytheville 198 miles . Estimated driving time 3 hrs 21 minutes. So we have a total driving time of about 6 hrs and 18 minutes. That leaves Jason 1 hr and 22 minutes to get all the things done that need doing. So that doesn't rule him out. Now he must also get extra gas somewhere.
Now we have Cassie who we know was at one point bloody but when LE arrived she was clean. Now some think Jason drugged her. If he gave her just enough meds to keep her asleep tell Meredith arrived which would have to have been at least 7 and a half hours. Then she awakes and isn't druggie and is chattering up a storm . I call that a miracle.
Next is the 2 size show prints. Jason is rushed on time but he messes around changing shoes and stomping in blood.
Jason goes to his meeting but is late. We know from warrants that he was on time at the 7:40 time mark but he lost time somewhere after that. Did he get lost?
He drives back to his Moms . On the way he stops at a hospital for a courtesy call. His family load his car which still has his things in it from the trip and drive back to Raleigh. LE take the car. Now from one of the worst crime scenes according to LE Jason somehow manages not to get a spot of blood in his car. They have his luggage no blood there either. Now after 15 months LE got a warrant for Michelle's car to look for blood. Why would they think Michelle's car would have blood 15 months later and Jason's had none the same day? Yet they still think Jason is the killer.
20 warrants. We know Jason had an affair. We know he owned or has shoes similar to the out sole on one of the prints. Other than that what do we know of any evidence that points to Jason being the killer. We know his father in law didn't really like him. I think that was the saddest thing I heard in all the warrants. Jason make every effort to see that Alan Fisher got to see his Grandchild before he died and Alan Fisher was a wolf in a lambs coat. Alan Fisher admitted he and his wife were alone with Cassie . So he had every opportunity to question her. I wonder if he did?
Autopsy report. Time of death 6 hour span. Anybody find it funny that span just happens to fit into the time Jason can't account for ?
ME made a note of dark livor on Michelle's back side. Meredith found Michelle at least 7 hrs and 37 minutes after her death. If you believe Jason killed her. Meredith found her on her stomach. Meredith says she was ice cold and stiff. I have put a link below to how livor pools and how quick livor starts to pool after death.
Was Michelle turned over sometime during the day and if she was who did it? Jason was miles away he sure didn't . Yet scientific evidence points to the fact she was turned over.

When I look at the whole picture of this murder I can see why LE says its a complicated case. Could LE be the reason this case has turned out so complicated because they wanted Jason for the murder and refuse to look at anyone else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

[Barbara2]

<snipped> Could LE be the reason this case has turned out so complicated because they wanted Jason for the murder and refuse to look at anyone else?



No. The known evidence doesn't support that accusation. IMO

[reborn]

Just found this on another forum. Looks like we are gonna have an arrest with in 2 months. Should be an interesting summer on here.

Post times 7:24 Am and 7:50 AM

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/6-vt136.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125

[reborn]

No. The known evidence doesn't support that accusation. IMO


I guess you have more evidence than I do . I believe I remember you once saying you had inside info. I just don't see the evidence . looks like we are gonna have an arrest. I am looking forward to seeing all this evidence.

[5swab5]

(snipped)
Time of death 6 hour span. Anybody find it funny that span just happens to fit into the time Jason can't account for ?
(snipped)

Nothing funny about that whatsoever. Sounds like evidence to me.

You are leaving several things out of your collection.

MapQuest's drive times are irrelevant, Jason has had more speeding tickets than any one person that still has a driving license has a right to...shoulda been revoked long ago.

The miracle is that Cassidy woke up at all, watering down Adult meds for children can be fatal.

LE did check out Jason's car when he arrived in Raleigh, no blood is no surprise, even per your scenario...he had to take a shower to get into his business suit.

Since mommie said nothing was removed from Jason's car, where is the shirt?

I have a feeling Alan Fisher liked Jason just fine until the end. Geeze, wonder why Alan didn't think too highly of a man that cheated on his daughter and whom he believed not only killed Michelle, but his grandson. Jason underestimated Alan, Alan had his number, but Alan had no choice but to be cordial to Jason during his final days on earth, because he wanted to see Cassidy and get some answers. He thought that Jason was arrogant enough to believe that he would get away with the murders, I have no doubt that he now knows that his suspicions about everything were indeed correct. MOO

[reborn]

Nothing funny about that whatsoever. Sounds like evidence to me.

You are leaving several things out of your collection.

MapQuest's drive times are irrelevant, Jason has had more speeding tickets than any one person that still has a driving license has a right to...shoulda been revoked long ago.

The miracle is that Cassidy woke up at all, watering down Adult meds for children can be fatal.

LE did check out Jason's car when he arrived in Raleigh, no blood is no surprise, even per your scenario...he had to take a shower to get into his business suit.

Since mommie said nothing was removed from Jason's car, where is the shirt?

I have a feeling Alan Fisher liked Jason just fine until the end. Geeze, wonder why Alan didn't think too highly of a man that cheated on his daughter and whom he believed not only killed Michelle, but his grandson. Jason underestimated Alan, Alan had his number, but Alan had no choice but to be cordial to Jason during his final days on earth, because he wanted to see Cassidy and get some answers. He thought that Jason was arrogant enough to believe that he would get away with the murders, I have no doubt that he now knows that his suspicions about everything were indeed correct. MOO

Feel free to list the things I left out. I said Map quest was an estimated time. I have seen where some don't go by those maps . I wasn't aware Jason got a speeding ticket the day Michelle was murdered. It would have to have been above Hillsville or LE would have mentioned it in their warrants.
I disagree. I think Alan Fisher played Jason . That disappoints me.

Waiting for you to list what I have left out. I was sure I was leaving out things. Its been so long.

[5swab5]

Alan even told Jason that he had talked to LE, how much more honest could he have been? I guess when you are preparing to meet your maker, honesty is high on your list, too bad Jason wouldn't reciprocate. Jason was standing there lying to a grieving, dying man's face, that takes more crust than a loaf of bread. He even had the temerity to sic Alan on Lisa and his mother for info about his affair with Michelle Money. Poor excuse for a human being.

I hope we find out at trial that Alan video taped an interview or a victim's impact statement. It will be very powerful! MOO

Oh, and if you are waiting for me to make you a list, you are in for another disappointment. :wink:

[Barbara2]

It sounded to me like Alan wanted to believe the best of Jason but Jason once again showed his true colors. I think that Alan couldn't ignore reality. IMO

[trucrime]

Feel free to list the things I left out. I said Map quest was an estimated time. I have seen where some don't go by those maps . I wasn't aware Jason got a speeding ticket the day Michelle was murdered. It would have to have been above Hillsville or LE would have mentioned it in their warrants.
I disagree. I think Alan Fisher played Jason . That disappoints me.

Waiting for you to list what I have left out. I was sure I was leaving out things. Its been so long.

5swab5 never said Jason got a speeding ticket on the days Michelle was murdered (night before, or next day). 5swab5 was just stating in the past Jason's had some speeding tickets so its not a stretch of the imagination to think he could have been speeding the night of the murder.

There was no inclement weather at all, so its not like he had a rain or snow storm to go through.

IMO.

[reborn]

Alan even told Jason that he had talked to LE, how much more honest could he have been? I guess when you are preparing to meet your maker, honesty is high on your list, too bad Jason wouldn't reciprocate. Jason was standing there lying to a grieving, dying man's face, that takes more crust than a loaf of bread. He even had the temerity to sic Alan on Lisa and his mother for info about his affair with Michelle Money. Poor excuse for a human being.

I hope we find out at trial that Alan video taped an interview or a victim's impact statement. It will be very powerful! MOO

Oh, and if you are waiting for me to make you a list, you are in for another disappointment. :wink:

You are going on the assumption that Jason is guilty. I still haven't made that leap. I can see it happening much more clearly another way. I'm sorry I thought you wanted to tell me the things I missed. I guess I misunderstood you.

[reborn]

5swab5 never said Jason got a speeding ticket on the days Michelle was murdered (night before, or next day). 5swab5 was just stating in the past Jason's had some speeding tickets so its not a stretch of the imagination to think he could have been speeding the night of the murder.

There was no inclement weather at all, so its not like he had a rain or snow storm to go through.

IMO.

What relevance does it have on the murder if he didn't get a speeding ticket the day of the murder? Do you think someone will testify to the fact Jason has been known to drove fast? What kind of evidence is that. If he didn't get a ticket why would she even bring that up.

[Leanne Weich]

What relevance does it have on the murder if he didn't get a speeding ticket the day of the murder? Do you think someone will testify to the fact Jason has been known to drove fast? What kind of evidence is that. If he didn't get a ticket why would she even bring that up.

IMO, to show Jason has no qualms about speeding and, irrespective of what Mapquest or any other program says, it may well not have taken him anything like the estimated time to drive to Raleigh and back.