Michelle Fisher Young 4-1-09

[reborn]

IMO, to show Jason has no qualms about speeding and, irrespective of what Mapquest or any other program says, it may well not have taken him anything like the estimated time to drive to Raleigh and back.


Its a moot point anyway. Jason making the drive is doable. We already know that. So to start talkig about how fast he drives makes no sense. Especially when there has been nothing said in the warrants about his driving. She made it sound like she knew he got a ticket that trip.

[5swab5]

Its a moot point anyway. Jason making the drive is doable. We already know that. So to start talkig about how fast he drives makes no sense. Especially when there has been nothing said in the warrants about his driving. She made it sound like she knew he got a ticket that trip.

Where is the "head banging" emoticon?

I NEVER said anything that even vaguely hinted at Jason getting a speeding ticket that night. I said exactly what Leanne said I did.
That MapQuest's travel times are irrelevant because Jason is notorious for having a lead foot. MOO

[Doorbell]

A collection of my opinions about the case.

(snipped to address this point)

I have put a link below to how livor pools and how quick livor starts to pool after death.
Was Michelle turned over sometime during the day and if she was who did it? Jason was miles away he sure didn't . Yet scientific evidence points to the fact she was turned over.

When I look at the whole picture of this murder I can see why LE says its a complicated case. Could LE be the reason this case has turned out so complicated because they wanted Jason for the murder and refuse to look at anyone else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

I am willing to bet that the people who carried Michelle's body out of the house turned her over when they placed her into a body bag. If the livor was not "set" at that point (and you have no way to know whether it was or not), it could have shifted. Scientific evidence allows for this conclusion.

Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours.

(from your link)

IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Here is a better link to info on livor mortis. It says that it can take 8-12 hours for livor mortis to fix or 24-36 hours if delayed by cool temperatures. Prior to it being fixed it will shift. Therefore, it could have shifted when the body was placed in the body bag if she was placed on her back. I don't know if they place people on their backs or if they keep them in the same position as when they find them. I would think that the crime scene photos would shed the most light on where and how the body was positioned and if there was any livor mortis at the scene.

I thought I read that someone had seen some of the crime scene photos from the WDS. Maybe thay can shed some more light on this.

I think I read that the heat was broken in the Young's home, right?:confused:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XyG3802xSdwC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=POSTIER+LIVOR+MORTIS&source=bl&ots=cU-R9ynGuk&sig=slJCy4k_AVfY6UnuHcs9Jza7ikg&hl=en&ei=RQHeSefpEdTJtgf-h7WJDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!

[reborn]

I am willing to bet that the people who carried Michelle's body out of the house turned her over when they placed her into a body bag. If the livor was not "set" at that point (and you have no way to know whether it was or not), it could have shifted. Scientific evidence allows for this conclusion.

Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours.

(from your link)

IMO

I agree she was moved to her back when they removed the body. I was questioning if after 8 hrs . and in a cool room there would be enough blood to pool as dark livor on her back. Seems there wouldn't be. I am sure when this gets to court we will see experts on this.

[reborn]

MapQuest's drive times are irrelevant, Jason has had more speeding tickets than any one person that still has a driving license has a right to...shoulda been revoked long ago.

MOO

I cut this for space. Here's where you talk about the tickets. I have no idea how many speeding tickets Jason has. I guess you have information not available to some of us. Jason's tickets unless gotten the day or night of the murder has no value as evidence here. I have been trying to talk about actual evidence not what might have been. I would question as to why Jason would wander around the motel for over an hour and then speed to get to Raleigh to kill his wife. Makes more sense if he just checked in and then went back to Raleigh. No need to speed then , if indeed he did speed.

[moorhill]

This quote doesn't even imply that Jason got any tickets the day of the murder. The bit about the speeding tickets was just to illustrate the point that he is likely to have gone faster than the mapquest quotes because of how he generally seems to drive. He wouldn't have sped after wandering, just driven the way he often seems to drive.

[5swab5]

I cut this for space. Here's where you talk about the tickets. I have no idea how many speeding tickets Jason has. I guess you have information not available to some of us. Jason's tickets unless gotten the day or night of the murder has no value as evidence here. I have been trying to talk about actual evidence not what might have been. I would question as to why Jason would wander around the motel for over an hour and then speed to get to Raleigh to kill his wife. Makes more sense if he just checked in and then went back to Raleigh. No need to speed then , if indeed he did speed.


I'm not sure I can make it any plainer, but I will try one more time. You said, in your "collection":

(Assuming these numbers are correct, just for the moment.)

That gives him 7 hrs and 40minutes to drive to Raleigh...
..... So we have a total driving time of about 6 hrs and 18 minutes. That leaves Jason 1 hr and 22 minutes to get all the things done that need doing.

I am telling you that based on Jason's numerous speeding tickets, your estimated driving times are meaningless. Jason could very well have had more time at the BirchLeaf house than the One hour and 22 minutes that you cite, because he does not historically respect speed limits.

Get it now?

Jason stayed around the hotel that extra hour for the very reason that you are belaboring, he wanted it to appear that he did not have time to commit the murders. Simple as that, a stab at an alibi, IMO.

PS, your driving distance to Wytheville from Raleigh of 198 miles is misleading, Jason's cell phone ping came from "a point southwest of Wytheville", there is no way to attach a driving time or a distance to it.

Hope This Helps.

[reborn]

I'm not sure I can make it any plainer, but I will try one more time. You said, in your "collection":

(Assuming these numbers are correct, just for the moment.)

That gives him 7 hrs and 40minutes to drive to Raleigh...
..... So we have a total driving time of about 6 hrs and 18 minutes. That leaves Jason 1 hr and 22 minutes to get all the things done that need doing.

I am telling you that based on Jason's numerous speeding tickets, your estimated driving times are meaningless. Jason could very well have had more time at the BirchLeaf house than the One hour and 22 minutes that you cite, because he does not historically respect speed limits.

Get it now?

Jason stayed around the hotel that extra hour for the very reason that you are belaboring, he wanted it to appear that he did not have time to commit the murders. Simple as that, a stab at an alibi, IMO.

PS, your driving distance to Wytheville from Raleigh of 198 miles is misleading, Jason's cell phone ping came from "a point southwest of Wytheville", there is no way to attach a driving time or a distance to it.

Hope This Helps.

I used the word estimated. Not nearly as misleading as saying he has sped in the past therefore he probably sped the night of the murder.

[dkny]

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. JMHO

[janesdeaan]

Happy Easter everyone, hope you all have a great holiday. And Happy Easter to Cassidy, too and all of OUR lil darlings !!

Maybe they'll be a breakthrough this weekend, and we'll see some justice for Michelle and Rylan, hope hope !!

[janesdeaan]

I'm bringing this over from yesterday, reborns post :

Old 04-09-2009, 11:37 AM
reborn reborn is offline
Registered User
I used the word estimated. Not nearly as misleading as saying he has sped in the past therefore he probably sped the night of the murder.

reborn~ I can't understand why you kept insisting the poster had stated that Jason received a speeding ticket the night of the murder, when it was clear she did not say that at all. When someone repeatedly misrepresents another poster (in spite of several other posters who were trying to help you with your confusion) it really takes away from the informative and interesting posts that others are trying to make. And that takes away from all of us who are trying to read and respond, IMO it is a form of baiting which is a violation of TOS. Jason Young has had quite a history of speeding tickets, and back in the beginning of this case it was discussed thoroughly and most of us KNOW he has a lead foot. Therefore Swabby's post made complete sense to us, sorry if you didn't catch on to that info a long time ago. Maybe that's what caused your confusion, hope this helps !! happy easter to you and yours !!

[enigma™]

I'm bringing this over from yesterday, reborns post :

Old 04-09-2009, 11:37 AM
reborn reborn is offline
Registered User
I used the word estimated. Not nearly as misleading as saying he has sped in the past therefore he probably sped the night of the murder.

reborn~ I can't understand why you kept insisting the poster had stated that Jason received a speeding ticket the night of the murder, when it was clear she did not say that at all. When someone repeatedly misrepresents another poster (in spite of several other posters who were trying to help you with your confusion) it really takes away from the informative and interesting posts that others are trying to make. And that takes away from all of us who are trying to read and respond, IMO it is a form of baiting which is a violation of TOS. Jason Young has had quite a history of speeding tickets, and back in the beginning of this case it was discussed thoroughly and most of us KNOW he has a lead foot. Therefore Swabby's post made complete sense to us, sorry if you didn't catch on to that info a long time ago. Maybe that's what caused your confusion, hope this helps !! happy easter to you and yours !!

Thanks for the thread, janesdeaan! Happy Easter to you and yours, a blessed Passover to those of the Jewish faith.

Swabby's post made perfect sense to me, too. RIF! MUO

[Leanne Weich]

Happy Easter to you too Jane and to all who faithfully wait, hope and pray for justice for Michelle.

Do you happen to know where Cassidy is this weekend?

[enigma™]

Happy Easter to you too Jane and to all who faithfully wait, hope and pray for justice for Michelle.

Do you happen to know where Cassidy is this weekend?

I believe she is with Meredith.

[Cardinal]

Reborn, I take exception to this comment from the other thread:

"...Alan Fisher was a wolf in a lambs coat."

Alan Fisher, God rest his soul, was the father of a woman who was brutally murdered, and whose son-in-law's agenda was to move beyond it.

IMVHO, he tried, initially, to give Jason the benefit of the doubt. I think it's wrong to criticize AF because Jason's actions and inactions seemed to confirm his worst fears.

I also think it's disingenuous of the JIIs, after months of asserting that AF's "support" of Jason was indicative of Jason's innocence, to berate the man at this point.

JMO

[enigma™]

Reborn, I take exception to this comment from the other thread:

"...Alan Fisher was a wolf in a lambs coat."

Alan Fisher, God rest his soul, was the father of a woman who was brutally murdered, and whose son-in-law's agenda was to move beyond it.

IMVHO, he tried, initially, to give Jason the benefit of the doubt. I think it's wrong to criticize AF because Jason's actions and inactions seemed to confirm his worst fears.

I also think it's disingenuous of the JIIs, after months of asserting that AF's "support" of Jason was indicative of Jason's innocence, to berate the man at this point.

JMO

Some posters have taken victim bashing to a new low.

[Leanne Weich]

I believe she is with Meredith.

Wonderful. I hope she has a fabulous time and I'm sure Meredith will organize a great easter egg hunt for her.

[Leanne Weich]

Reborn, I take exception to this comment from the other thread:

"...Alan Fisher was a wolf in a lambs coat."

Alan Fisher, God rest his soul, was the father of a woman who was brutally murdered, and whose son-in-law's agenda was to move beyond it.

IMVHO, he tried, initially, to give Jason the benefit of the doubt. I think it's wrong to criticize AF because Jason's actions and inactions seemed to confirm his worst fears.

I also think it's disingenuous of the JIIs, after months of asserting that AF's "support" of Jason was indicative of Jason's innocence, to berate the man at this point.

JMO

That was, imo, a particularly low blow but I'm not surprised given how the same poster has trashed Meredith. Have a very happy Easter Card.

[Cardinal]

That was, imo, a particularly low blow but I'm not surprised given how the same poster has trashed Meredith. Have a very happy Easter Card.

And a lovely Easter to you as well, Leanne.

And on this commemoration of the resurrection, may everyone say a prayer for justice for Michelle and Rylan, who I know are in His arms.

ETA: And may everyone also say a prayer for Cassidy, that she knows her mother is always with her in spirit.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

[enigma™]

Wonderful. I hope she has a fabulous time and I'm sure Meredith will organize a great easter egg hunt for her.

She's probably teaching her the Bunny Hop as we type. I just know they have a blast together. Here's to more happy times ahead for Cassidy! :thumbsup:

[enigma™]

Gee, I do wish the Easter Bunny would hop down Mockingbird Lane and cuff the monster that murdered Michelle and Rylan. That would be the greatest gift of all.

[enigma™]

What a shame that golf has become more important than finding out who murdered Michelle & Rylan.

[ginky41]

Pardon my ignorance in this case, I only know a very little. Who is Rylan? Have they ever formally charged any suspects? Am I correct in reading that Michelle's father has passed away? Are folks still mostly leaning toward Jason being the killer? TIA.

[janesdeaan]

Reborn, I take exception to this comment from the other thread:

"...Alan Fisher was a wolf in a lambs coat."

Alan Fisher, God rest his soul, was the father of a woman who was brutally murdered, and whose son-in-law's agenda was to move beyond it.

IMVHO, he tried, initially, to give Jason the benefit of the doubt. I think it's wrong to criticize AF because Jason's actions and inactions seemed to confirm his worst fears.

I also think it's disingenuous of the JIIs, after months of asserting that AF's "support" of Jason was indicative of Jason's innocence, to berate the man at this point.

JMO

Hi Cardinal, thanks for addressing this post, I don't know how I had forgotten it, because it stunned me when I read it. Alan Fisher was a very kind man, good hearted is what I got from his writings. Hardly the awful man that poster described, the poor man was suffering in more ways than one at the end of his life. He was quite gracious when he wrote about Jason and his opinion of him and what he had done to Michelle, I doubt I would have been as kind or diplomatic. It is very sad to me the way the Fishers have been treated on this board, they seem to be so gentle and dignified in dealing with this trauma and the way they are villified here is atrocious. Happy Easter Card, it's good to see you.

[janesdeaan]

Gee, I do wish the Easter Bunny would hop down Mockingbird Lane and cuff the monster that murdered Michelle and Rylan. That would be the greatest gift of all.

Yes it surely would, lol, or maybe colin w. himself.

[janesdeaan]

Pardon my ignorance in this case, I only know a very little. Who is Rylan? Have they ever formally charged any suspects? Am I correct in reading that Michelle's father has passed away? Are folks still mostly leaning toward Jason being the killer? TIA.

Rylan was the unborn son of Michelle, who was murdered along with her.
No one has been charged in her murder, but Jason, Michelle's husband was deemed the slayer in the wrongful death suit her mother filed against him. Also, he has had a judgement filed against him as well, for $15 million for the murder. The lead detective in this case has also publicly stated his opinion (testimony in the wrongful death suit) is that Jason is the murderer and that it was pre-meditated. Sadly, Michelle's father didn't live to see the murderer caught in his daughters case.

[ginky41]

Rylan was the unborn son of Michelle, who was murdered along with her.
No one has been charged in her murder, but Jason, Michelle's husband was deemed the slayer in the wrongful death suit her mother filed against him. Also, he has had a judgement filed against him as well, for $15 million for the murder. The lead detective in this case has also publicly stated his opinion (testimony in the wrongful death suit) is that Jason is the murderer and that it was pre-meditated. Sadly, Michelle's father didn't live to see the murderer caught in his daughters case.


Thank you for filling me in janesdeaan. I didn't realize there had been civil suits brought against him. Interesting that detective thinks it's Jason but they haven't been able to get enough evidence to arrest/convict him. :cursing:

[trucrime]

Thank you for filling me in janesdeaan. I didn't realize there had been civil suits brought against him. Interesting that detective thinks it's Jason but they haven't been able to get enough evidence to arrest/convict him. :cursing:

I expect a GJ indictment within the next few months but that's JMO. Some of the detectives said it was one of the worst murder scenes they'd ever seen, she was a pregnant woman... I dont think this is going unsolved per sey but it has taken some time. I think there's more evidence against Jason that the general public is aware about. Seemingly with each warrant that's released it always tells us new info about the case. Within the last year or so its been revealed he's had at least 2 affairs, one with Michelle Money and one with Carol Anne Sowerby (both married themselves).

Also, Meredith - Michelle's sister, and Linda - Michelle's mother, went after Jason for custody of Cassidy. Jason would have been forced to give a depo and likely a psych evaluation if he were to keep her. Jason settled with them before it got to that point (ie so he never had to give any statement), giving primary physical custody and joint legal custody to Meredith. Basically he gave up custody of his daughter without a fight. IMO.

[janesdeaan]

Thank you for filling me in janesdeaan. I didn't realize there had been civil suits brought against him. Interesting that detective thinks it's Jason but they haven't been able to get enough evidence to arrest/convict him. :cursing:

ya, there definitely seems to be something major that has stopped them from actually indicting JY, wonder what it is. They have stated that they are still waiting on some evidence (financial), but even that was reported a while ago. Hard to say, but I am sure in time, he will be arrested for the murder of Michelle and justice will finally be served.

[reborn]

I'm bringing this over from yesterday, reborns post :

Old 04-09-2009, 11:37 AM
reborn reborn is offline
Registered User
I used the word estimated. Not nearly as misleading as saying he has sped in the past therefore he probably sped the night of the murder.

reborn~ I can't understand why you kept insisting the poster had stated that Jason received a speeding ticket the night of the murder, when it was clear she did not say that at all. When someone repeatedly misrepresents another poster (in spite of several other posters who were trying to help you with your confusion) it really takes away from the informative and interesting posts that others are trying to make. And that takes away from all of us who are trying to read and respond, IMO it is a form of baiting which is a violation of TOS. Jason Young has had quite a history of speeding tickets, and back in the beginning of this case it was discussed thoroughly and most of us KNOW he has a lead foot. Therefore Swabby's post made complete sense to us, sorry if you didn't catch on to that info a long time ago. Maybe that's what caused your confusion, hope this helps !! happy easter to you and yours !!


Happy Easter to you and yours may God Bless. I haven't continues to insist she said he got a ticket. I understood when she explained that there wasn't a ticket that night. I was talking about what I knew from warrants and the autopsy report. In my opinion that would be direct evidence. She comments back about the speeding. I had no knowledge of Jason speeding record. I have read every warrant and I have never seen anything about speed. I will take your word for it that somewhere there is evidence to this. I haven't seen it. As for as I am concerned the talk about the speeding is finished. I can't understand why it keeps getting bumped back up. In the post you responded to she was correcting me. I explained that I said estimated.

[reborn]

I expect a GJ indictment within the next few months but that's JMO. Some of the detectives said it was one of the worst murder scenes they'd ever seen, she was a pregnant woman... I dont think this is going unsolved per sey but it has taken some time. I think there's more evidence against Jason that the general public is aware about. Seemingly with each warrant that's released it always tells us new info about the case. Within the last year or so its been revealed he's had at least 2 affairs, one with Michelle Money and one with Carol Anne Sowerby (both married themselves).

Also, Meredith - Michelle's sister, and Linda - Michelle's mother, went after Jason for custody of Cassidy. Jason would have been forced to give a depo and likely a psych evaluation if he were to keep her. Jason settled with them before it got to that point (ie so he never had to give any statement), giving primary physical custody and joint legal custody to Meredith. Basically he gave up custody of his daughter without a fight. IMO.


I don't think the fact that she was pregnant has any bearing on whether this case gets solved or not. JN was pregnant and you never hear anything about her murder. I don't even know if LE is still working her case. I would hope that they are but nothing is on the news about her. Wasn't JA also pregnant? That case is still open .
Where did you see he had an affair with CS? I missed that.

[Jester]

Thankfully, there has been some Justice for Michelle.

No one but her daughter will benefit from her financial assets/benefits.

Her daughter will have liberal and generous access to her mother's family, weekends and special occasions with her father.

If Jason lives shivering in fear until his last breath, it's enough for me. If he is brought to trial and convicted, so much the better. If not, he is paralyzed from having a comfortable lifestyle or inheriting and relaxing, seriously handicapped in the future marriage department, and forever looking over his shoulder.

Michelle has had some Justice.
Now we wait for the trial, I suppose ...

[achristie]

Thankfully, there has been some Justice for Michelle.

No one but her daughter will benefit from her financial assets/benefits.

Her daughter will have liberal and generous access to her mother's family, weekends and special occasions with her father.

If Jason lives shivering in fear until his last breath, it's enough for me. If he is brought to trial and convicted, so much the better. If not, he is paralyzed from having a comfortable lifestyle or inheriting and relaxing, seriously handicapped in the future marriage department, and forever looking over his shoulder.

Michelle has had some Justice.
Now we wait for the trial, I suppose ...

Amen.

Aggie

[Stellagant]

Happy Easter to you and yours may God Bless. I haven't continues to insist she said he got a ticket. I understood when she explained that there wasn't a ticket that night. I was talking about what I knew from warrants and the autopsy report. In my opinion that would be direct evidence. She comments back about the speeding. I had no knowledge of Jason speeding record. I have read every warrant and I have never seen anything about speed. I will take your word for it that somewhere there is evidence to this. I haven't seen it. As for as I am concerned the talk about the speeding is finished. I can't understand why it keeps getting bumped back up. In the post you responded to she was correcting me. I explained that I said estimated.

It keeps getting bumped back up out of desperation and impatience is my guess. Spivey's proclamation that Jason is the killer still hasn't resulted in an arrest and his fan club appears to be concerned Spivey just might be wrong afterall. But not even Spivey has presented the ridiculous theory that Jason waited around an hour and then decided to take the risk to speed back to Raleigh despite Jason's history of getting caught speeding--rather than simply leaving the hotel soon after he arrived. Juries don't accept such absurd theories and neither does the DA. It's right up there with the hogwash theory presented nowhere but on the Internet that even though Michelle's body was stiff with rigor mortis, (according to Meredith), livor mortis wasn't fixed.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It keeps getting bumped back up out of desperation and impatience is my guess. Spivey's proclamation that Jason is the killer still hasn't resulted in an arrest and his fan club appears to be concerned Spivey just might be wrong afterall. But not even Spivey has presented the ridiculous theory that Jason waited around an hour and then decided to take the risk to speed back to Raleigh despite Jason's history of getting caught speeding--rather than simply leaving the hotel soon after he arrived. Juries don't accept such absurd theories and neither does the DA. It's right up there with the hogwash theory presented nowhere but on the Internet that even though Michelle's body was stiff with rigor mortis, (according to Meredith), livor mortis wasn't fixed.


Michelle's body was stiff with rigor mortis

Link please.........:rolleyes:

[5swab5]

It keeps getting bumped back up out of desperation and impatience is my guess. Spivey's proclamation that Jason is the killer still hasn't resulted in an arrest and his fan club appears to be concerned Spivey just might be wrong afterall. But not even Spivey has presented the ridiculous theory that Jason waited around an hour and then decided to take the risk to speed back to Raleigh despite Jason's history of getting caught speeding--rather than simply leaving the hotel soon after he arrived. Juries don't accept such absurd theories and neither does the DA. It's right up there with the hogwash theory presented nowhere but on the Internet that even though Michelle's body was stiff with rigor mortis, (according to Meredith), livor mortis wasn't fixed.

I think it is totally unfair for you to come on here and mock a man that has been doing everything in his power to get justice for Michelle and Rylan. Thank Goodness for dedicated souls that actually care about those that can no longer speak for themselves.

Spivey will get his man and the slayer is his man, premeditated and all. MOO

[tarheelfan]

Hope the Easter bunny brings lots of goodies to everyone....have a wonderful day tomorrow all.

Stellagant.....I hope the Easter bunny poops in your basket.

[reborn]

Michelle's body was stiff with rigor mortis

Link please.........:rolleyes:

I don't know if it was or not. During the 911 call Meredith says Michelle is ice cold and stiff. I think this is where people are assuming rigor had set in. Take if for what its worth. Remember the source.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

[janesdeaan]

I don't know if it was or not. During the 911 call Meredith says Michelle is ice cold and stiff. I think this is where people are assuming rigor had set in. Take if for what its worth. Remember the source.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

OR...you could always read the autopsy report on Michelle...instead of demeaning Meredith once again. Try actually READING some reported, official documentation on the condition of Michelle's body. What you'll find is Meredith was absolutely correct in her 911 call. Maybe we should remember "the source" when reading your posts... Thanks...

http://abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/pdf/youngautopsy.pdf

[Jester]

I don't know if it was or not. During the 911 call Meredith says Michelle is ice cold and stiff. I think this is where people are assuming rigor had set in. Take if for what its worth. Remember the source.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

I see you've been doing your rigor mortis homework. Any thoughts on the time of death ... given the time to go in to rigor, cooler room temperature with broken heat, and an average 6 hour timespan between time of death and rigor? Would you hazard that the time of death was before midnight, or after?

Michelle was found shortly after noon. She was in rigor. Let's subtract 6 hours + 1 hour for room temperature + (2-4) hours for stages of rigor. That puts us back to 3 AM. Michelle bled out. Was she attacked at 2:30 AM? Maybe she was attacked at 2:45, placing full rigor at exactly the time that Meredith arrived at the house. It also places any culprit at the house 1.75 hours later (that's 4:30 AM Nov 3/06) as a potential suspect. Interesting that a vehicle similar to Jason's vehicle was seen at the house at that time, several house lights were on, and there were unexplained activities around the vehicle.

Why has this never concerned Jason ... that a strange vehicle was scene at the house at 4:30 in the morning?

Does the time of death work for you with Jason being at the house?

[reborn]

OR...you could always read the autopsy report on Michelle...instead of demeaning Meredith once again. Try actually READING some reported, official documentation on the condition of Michelle's body. What you'll find is Meredith was absolutely correct in her 911 call. Maybe we should remember "the source" when reading your posts... Thanks...

http://abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/pdf/youngautopsy.pdf

Go for it. If you think an autopsy done 22 hrs. after Michelle's body was found will tell you if rigor had set in when Meredith first found her. There is a feature on IS called ignore. You could always use that if you don't like my posts.

[reborn]

I see you've been doing your rigor mortis homework. Any thoughts on the time of death ... given the time to go in to rigor, cooler room temperature with broken heat, and an average 6 hour timespan between time of death and rigor? Would you hazard that the time of death was before midnight, or after?

Michelle was found shortly after noon. She was in rigor. Let's subtract 6 hours + 1 hour for room temperature + (2-4) hours for stages of rigor. That puts us back to 3 AM. Michelle bled out. Was she attacked at 2:30 AM? Maybe she was attacked at 2:45, placing full rigor at exactly the time that Meredith arrived at the house. It also places any culprit at the house 1.75 hours later (that's 4:30 AM Nov 3/06) as a potential suspect. Interesting that a vehicle similar to Jason's vehicle was seen at the house at that time, several house lights were on, and there were unexplained activities around the vehicle.

Why has this never concerned Jason ... that a strange vehicle was scene at the house at 4:30 in the morning?

Does the time of death work for you with Jason being at the house?

All I know about TOD rigor Mortis or Livor I have read on the Internet. I had a cat die one night and the next morning it was stiff and I buried it. So I know rigor can set in on a cat overnight. The TOD we use on here was given by LE. I only told you to listen to what Meredith said. She said ice cold and stiff. To me stiff means rigor. I have no idea what concerns Jason. I have never seen nor talked to Jason. So I can't answer that question.
I think if this case gets to court we will all get educated on Livor and Rigor.

[Doorbell]

All I know about TOD rigor Mortis or Livor I have read on the Internet. I had a cat die one night and the next morning it was stiff and I buried it. So I know rigor can set in on a cat overnight. The TOD we use on here was given by LE. I only told you to listen to what Meredith said. She said ice cold and stiff. To me stiff means rigor. I have no idea what concerns Jason. I have never seen nor talked to Jason. So I can't answer that question.
I think if this case gets to court we will all get educated on Livor and Rigor.

So, when Meredith said "Ice cold and stiff," she was spot on, but when she said that there were little footprints "everywhere," not so much?

I am wondering how you decide which statements in the 911 call are God's own truth, and which are mendacious.

[5swab5]

Go for it. If you think an autopsy done 22 hrs. after Michelle's body was found will tell you if rigor had set in when Meredith first found her. There is a feature on IS called ignore. You could always use that if you don't like my posts.

You seem to be forgetting that the coroner was called to the Birchleaf house, we have not seen those records and have no way of telling what is in them. I'm sure our suspicions will be revealed at Jason's trial. Michelle didn't have to be in full rigor for Meredith to have trouble moving her, she was twisted and in a very awkward position. MOO

[reborn]

You seem to be forgetting that the coroner was called to the Birchleaf house, we have not seen those records and have no way of telling what is in them. I'm sure our suspicions will be revealed at Jason's trial. Michelle didn't have to be in full rigor for Meredith to have trouble moving her, she was twisted and in a very awkward position. MOO


I'm not forgetting that the ME was called to the house I simply wasn't aware of that. I have never read anywhere that the ME was called to the house. You seem to have a pocket full of information I don't have. Jason speeding and now the ME was on the scene. NC has no coroners so it would have been the ME. I'm sure a lot of questions will be answered at the trial including who will be sitting in the defendants chair.

[reborn]

So, when Meredith said "Ice cold and stiff," she was spot on, but when she said that there were little footprints "everywhere," not so much?

I am wondering how you decide which statements in the 911 call are God's own truth, and which are mendacious.


If you think my saying take it for whats its worth and consider the source means on the spot I guess you are right. LOL

[Barbara2]

<snipped>
I'm sure a lot of questions will be answered at the trial including who will be sitting in the defendants chair.

That question will be answered well before the trial begins. IMO

[Doorbell]

If you think my saying take it for whats its worth and consider the source means on the spot I guess you are right. LOL

Sorry. "Spot on" means "correct," not "on the spot."

Perhaps I should rephrase.

You accept that Meredith was correct when she said her sister was "cold and stiff," and yet, you say she lied (or was mistaken)when she said there were little footprints "everywhere."

How do you decide which statements to accept at face value, and which to reject as mistakes or lies?

[Stellagant]

I don't know if it was or not. During the 911 call Meredith says Michelle is ice cold and stiff. I think this is where people are assuming rigor had set in. Take if for what its worth. Remember the source.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/audio/1119462/

Meredith uses cold and stiff as a reason she couldn't turn her over. Whether that was the truth or not remains to be seen. The ME should have arrived within a short time and assessed the body. As to whether or not that took place, stay tuned. But livor mortis would have at least been partially fixed by then and the staining would not have shifted at that point.

[Stellagant]

I'm not forgetting that the ME was called to the house I simply wasn't aware of that. I have never read anywhere that the ME was called to the house. You seem to have a pocket full of information I don't have. Jason speeding and now the ME was on the scene. NC has no coroners so it would have been the ME. I'm sure a lot of questions will be answered at the trial including who will be sitting in the defendants chair.

A rep from the ME's office must go to the scene. It is NC law. Whether or not that took place, we don't know. Could be just another screw-up on LE's part and this case will never be solved.

[aproudmom]

OMG Listening to this 911 call breaks my heart that poor child:crying:

[aproudmom]

A rep from the ME's office must go to the scene. It is NC law. Whether or not that took place, we don't know. Could be just another screw-up on LE's part and this case will never be solved.

do they not do that in every state when it could be a murder or sucide not the actual ME has to go they can send someone in thier office to collect photos and write down notes this is suppose to be done before the body is ever moved IIRC if the person is in fact dead and they do not have to do CPR incase it is needed in a trial..

[aproudmom]

Meredith uses cold and stiff as a reason she couldn't turn her over. Whether that was the truth or not remains to be seen. The ME should have arrived within a short time and assessed the body. As to whether or not that took place, stay tuned. But livor mortis would have at least been partially fixed by then and the staining would not have shifted at that point.

Guess I need to read up on this case I had not heard of it sounds so sad.:crying:

just wondering I can not remember her name but a women was killed a year or so ago her child's father picked her child up and took her to his parents home he said she came to have some work done on her car or something if anyone knows the name can they please let me know I thought I just heard they arrested him for her murder..TIA sorry O/T

[dkny]

do they not do that in every state when it could be a murder or sucide not the actual ME has to go they can send someone in thier office to collect photos and write down notes this is suppose to be done before the body is ever moved IIRC if the person is in fact dead and they do not have to do CPR incase it is needed in a trial..

In this case, yes ME, corner would go, sometimes in other cases a dr or nurse can pronounce when the cause of death is obvious. JMHO.

[Tia]

I think it is totally unfair for you to come on here and mock a man that has been doing everything in his power to get justice for Michelle and Rylan. Thank Goodness for dedicated souls that actually care about those that can no longer speak for themselves.

Spivey will get his man and the slayer is his man, premeditated and all. MOO


ITA. And hopefully soon, (although Jason's life is pretty much prison now anyway IMO).

The slayer should be put behind bars before someone else's sister, daughter, loved one, etc... dates him. Who knows what he is capable of??!

[Kat4Eagles]

Define "so long" because there's been a lot of activity in the past months about the case. IMO its still a current crime, not a cold case. IMO.


If you have any links that show any current activity in the criminal part of this case recently, please share.

Thanxxxx.
:)
Kat

[Jester]

If you have any links that show any current activity in the criminal part of this case recently, please share.

Thanxxxx.
:)
Kat

Check the usual outlets that cover search warrants and news about the investigation.

[Jester]

<Snipped just to stay on topic.:)>

I think the fact that Jason's other emails were made public, I would think the rest would be too.......

But, you only have to look at the number of posts here to see that many have lost interest in this case, a case that has taken so long to solve, when if only Jason alone were involved, the trial would be over and this case would be in the penalty phase right now.............and sentencing would have been handed down and the killer would be serving time.

Instead no one has been charged........so, I don't know what to think.

I hope CY had a wonderful Easter, at least when she got back to her Dad at 6:pm last nite, according to the custody agreement....

It is so hard to believe she is 5 years old already!!

Kat

<Snipped just to stay on topic.:)>
It is incorrect to conclude that the number of posts indicates a lack of interest in the case. Many people are interested in the case and check this thread on a daily basis.

Discussing forensics, of which I know nothing, with people that similarly know nothing, doesn't seem too wise. Defending Meredith against those that continue to attempt to persecute her is not productive. Watching the custody transition is interesting, as is the question of what Jason is going to do now that he has a rather large bill to pay.

[trucrime]

If you have any links that show any current activity in the criminal part of this case recently, please share.

Thanxxxx.
:)
Kat

Criminal, no. But there's been a lot of other activity re the WD suit and Custody suit which I know you are aware of. This activity has been more frequent over the last few months. This is not a cold case, recently Det Spivey has said they're still working on it (I can get a link if you need it Kat, but Im sure you recall it being said on the WD news articles). Perhaps CW should take a poll if and when she decides as our Moderator if it should be moved to the "cold case" file. IMO.

[kingbuff]

The case won't go cold for me until the killers are arrested and in prison. I keep up with things the best I can. Wouldn't surprise me to see the police drop something new to the media shortly, though I have no idea what it might be....Perhaps something new to pressure Jason to submit to their grilling.

[Stellagant]

do they not do that in every state when it could be a murder or sucide not the actual ME has to go they can send someone in thier office to collect photos and write down notes this is suppose to be done before the body is ever moved IIRC if the person is in fact dead and they do not have to do CPR incase it is needed in a trial..

Yes, every state has a similar statute that pertains to unattended deaths when manner of death is unknown. I didn't say the actual ME has to go.

Originally Posted by Stellagant
A rep from the ME's office must go to the scene.

[Stellagant]

The case won't go cold for me until the killers are arrested and in prison. I keep up with things the best I can. Wouldn't surprise me to see the police drop something new to the media shortly, though I have no idea what it might be....Perhaps something new to pressure Jason to submit to their grilling.

I doubt Jason's attorney will ever submit Jason to their grilling. No ethical attorney would do that to a client.

[kingbuff]

I doubt Jason's attorney will ever submit Jason to their grilling. No ethical attorney would do that to a client.

So the innocent who talk do so to try to convince the police and the public they are innocent? And the guilty do the same same? Maybe it also has to do with the attitude of the police, with how they approach those involved in the case.

[5swab5]

I think it has everything to do with the police and how they conduct themselves. If they could turn the clock back to Nov 3rd. 2006 and approach Jason with a different attitude I think this case may have been solved.

Too bad Jason couldn't treat his wife with a different attitude.

I am in a mood that makes our trip to myrtle seem mild, pray the beer kicks in. I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning.

Quite a bit different from the way he speaks to his honey, Michelle Money:

missing you so much..got a nice beer buzz...i feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but i do... MOO

[5swab5]

Putting it into the cold case area doesn't mean closing the discussion . I think it may be in the wrong place under current crimes. (snipped)


I don't know how anyone can consider a case "cold", when there have been 2 SWs released within the last 34 days.

March 10, 2009, search warrants for Jason's Google and Bebo accounts

There was another one on Feb. 9th, for Jason's e-mail account.

28 days ago, a judgment of $15,573,104.40 was entered against Jason in the WDS.

65 days ago, Jason signed a Custody Agreement that gradually transfers PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy to Meredith Fisher.

And a short 129 days ago, Jason was declared Michelle's slayer in a court of law.

This case is anything but cold. MOO

[Tia]

I don't know how anyone can consider a case "cold", when there have been 2 SWs released within the last 34 days.

March 10, 2009, search warrants for Jason's Google and Bebo accounts

There was another one on Feb. 9th, for Jason's e-mail account.

28 days ago, a judgment of $15,573,104.40 was entered against Jason in the WDS.

65 days ago, Jason signed a Custody Agreement that gradually transfers PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy to Meredith Fisher.

And a short 129 days ago, Jason was declared Michelle's slayer in a court of law.

This case is anything but cold. MOO

The only people that want this case marked "cold" by the moderator are those who supported a murderer for over 2 years. It would be embarrasing for them.

[Kat4Eagles]

I have noticed that you haven't been on the board much lately, so perhaps you've missed that very recent activity on March 10, when new search warrants were served, or the other very recent activity on March 17, when the wrongful death suit was heard. This activity was less than a month ago.

I've had the impression that you would prefer that this case fade into distant memories for quite some time. For almost two years you've claimed the case is cold, you've made a point of counting days to point out why you think the case is cold, and now, after no activity for approximately 3 weeks (that you are aware of), you state "nothing has happened for so long ..."

The case is not cold. It is unsolved, but definitely not cold. The term "cold case" is applied to cases where all leads have been explored, and the police have no clue about what direction to take next. That is definitely not that case in the murder of Michelle and her unborn son.


Did you not see the part where I expressed that nothing seemed to be happening in the criminal aspect of the case?

I was here for the wds ruling and the custody agreement.

The latest s/w's or any of the other s/w's did nothing to produce an arrest, did they?

The person or persons who killed Michelle should be in jail.
They should be subjected to all the punishments that jail or prison implies.
They should be behind bars. Period. End of story.

They should only have personal contact with the outside world through mail or have visitation through a glass window.
They should never experience a day of freedom, in any sense.

I don't know how to make it any clearer that this hasn't happened..
And, you or others can keep saying, no, not yet, but it will.
Or refer to the fact that while Jason has lost much in his life,since losing Michelle, he still has not lost his freedom. Not even literally.

The case has a problem that it seems it can not rebound from, imo.
They have tried every which way to get to Jason, including trying to make him talk, even through embarrasing or humilating him with his personal stuff being made public.

He refuses to play......

The case does not appear to be strong, to me.

After almost 30 months of intensive investigation, shouldn't it be?

Shouldn't a case be made by now?

I can call it stalled or cold...either way it doesn't matter.

There has been no arrest and there is no excuse for that........

None.

There is not a reason in this world that Michelle's killer or killers go unpunished day or day, week after week, month after month, and now year after year...

:no:
JMO
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Putting it into the cold case area doesn't mean closing the discussion . I think it may be in the wrong place under current crimes. It certainly isn't a current crime. We would have a forum for it but everybody fights so much CW keeps closing them. I don't know why you think you have to defend Meredith. Anything said about Meredith is just someones opinion and thats what this forum is about. I have mentioned before I don't think one person on here has ever tried to bother Meredith. We all know where she lives as it has been posted many times. Can you give any example of anyone trying to bother her? I can give plenty examples of people bothering Jason. I'm glad you think the custody transition has been interesting. I find it to be very sad. We are talking about a little 5 year old that not only lost her mom but now just 3 years later is losing her dad.


Excellent, excellent post.
I am impressed.
:thumbsup:

Kat

[Jester]

Putting it into the cold case area doesn't mean closing the discussion . I think it may be in the wrong place under current crimes. It certainly isn't a current crime. We would have a forum for it but everybody fights so much CW keeps closing them. I don't know why you think you have to defend Meredith. Anything said about Meredith is just someones opinion and thats what this forum is about. I have mentioned before I don't think one person on here has ever tried to bother Meredith. We all know where she lives as it has been posted many times. Can you give any example of anyone trying to bother her? I can give plenty examples of people bothering Jason. I'm glad you think the custody transition has been interesting. I find it to be very sad. We are talking about a little 5 year old that not only lost her mom but now just 3 years later is losing her dad.

If the case was cold, meaning the police had exhausted all leads and did not know what else to investigate, then it should be in the cold case category. This investigation is by no means cold. The investigation is active, there are leads, there is a suspect, police continue to gather evidence, search warrants are frequently released (the most recent less than a month ago), and there have been recent social, personal, and financial consequences for the prime suspect. There is a distinct difference between a cold case and an active investigation, and this is an active investigation.

Cassidy has not lost her dad. Her dad determined that she was better off being raised by her mother's family.

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't know how anyone can consider a case "cold", when there have been 2 SWs released within the last 34 days.

<snipped>
This case is anything but cold. MOO


Putting this unsolved crime of 2 and 1/2 years in the cold case forum, does not mean it would no longer get attention or discussed, or that anyone is going to change their positon on guilt or innocence.

But, it is not a new crime, and it certainly is not current.

Current cases are like the Casey Anthony case, where there are constantly new developments unfolding every day.
In fact, I just read that Florida will now seek the DP against her.

In order for this Board to stay open, then it needs more activity or for posters to come back.....with some new discussion.

It seems to have come to a halt all on its own..
JMO

Kat

[Jester]

Did you not see the part where I expressed that nothing seemed to be happening in the criminal aspect of the case?

I was here for the wds ruling and the custody agreement.

The latest s/w's or any of the other s/w's did nothing to produce an arrest, did they?

The person or persons who killed Michelle should be in jail.
They should be subjected to all the punishments that jail or prison implies.
They should be behind bars. Period. End of story.

They should only have personal contact with the outside world through mail or have visitation through a glass window.
They should never experience a day of freedom, in any sense.

I don't know how to make it any clearer that this hasn't happened..
And, you or others can keep saying, no, not yet, but it will.
Or refer to the fact that while Jason has lost much in his life,since losing Michelle, he still has not lost his freedom. Not even literally.

The case has a problem that it seems it can not rebound from, imo.
They have tried every which way to get to Jason, including trying to make him talk, even through embarrasing or humilating him with his personal stuff being made public.

He refuses to play......

The case does not appear to be strong, to me.

After almost 30 months of intensive investigation, shouldn't it be?

Shouldn't a case be made by now?

I can call it stalled or cold...either way it doesn't matter.

There has been no arrest and there is no excuse for that........

None.

There is not a reason in this world that Michelle's killer or killers go unpunished day or day, week after week, month after month, and now year after year...

:no:
JMO
Kat

I consider the wrongful death suit, a very recent action, to be part of the criminal case. Without the crime, there is no wrongful death suit. The investigation and consequences to Jason are not restricted to an arrest and trial; that would be somewhat oversimplifying the matter.

[Jester]

Putting this unsolved crime of 2 and 1/2 years in the cold case forum, does not mean it would no longer get attention or discussed, or that anyone is going to change their positon on guilt or innocence.

But, it is not a new crime, and it certainly is not current.

Current cases are like the Casey Anthony case, where there are constantly new developments unfolding every day.
In fact, I just read that Florida will now seek the DP against her.

In order for this Board to stay open, then it needs more activity or for posters to come back.....with some new discussion.

It seems to have come to a halt all on its own..
JMO

Kat

It is most definitely not a cold case.

I didn't realize that you were a moderator, and in a position to state what criteria is necessary for the discussion to continue on this forum.

[Kat4Eagles]

If the case was cold, meaning the police had exhausted all leads and did not know what else to investigate, then it should be in the cold case category. This investigation is by no means cold. The investigation is active, there are leads, there is a suspect, police continue to gather evidence, search warrants are frequently released (the most recent less than a month ago), and there have been recent social, personal, and financial consequences for the prime suspect. There is a distinct difference between a cold case and an active investigation, and this is an active investigation.

Cassidy has not lost her dad. Her dad determined that she was better off being raised by her mother's family.


What can be talked about that we haven't discussed over and over again for 30 months?
I think we are talked out.
I see nothing new.
How many times have we been told an arrest was going to happen?
But, feel free to bring new life to the case.
:rolleyes:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It is most definitely not a cold case.

I didn't realize that you were a moderator, and in a position to state what criteria is necessary for the discussion to continue on this forum.


So, this is a hot case, on all the front pages of the news all over the country and world?

I never claimed to be a Moderator, I have the greatest respect for the one who is though.,

:)
Kat

[Jester]

What can be talked about that we haven't discussed over and over again for 30 months?
I think we are talked out.
I see nothing new.
How many times have we been told an arrest was going to happen?
But, feel free to bring new life to the case.
:(

Kat

I'll be right here when the next search warrant is released, an arrest is made, more phone records are available, more peripheral suspects are rounded up, more adulterous affairs are made public, more luxury vacations happen, or anything else that pertains to the investigation of Michelle's murder.

I don't recall the police stating that an arrest was going to happen.

[Kat4Eagles]

I'll be right here when the next search warrant is released, an arrest is made, more phone records are available, more peripheral suspects are rounded up, more adulterous affairs are made public, more luxury vacations happen, or anything else that pertains to the investigation of Michelle's murder.

I don't recall the police stating that an arrest was going to happen.

In case, you haven't noticed, there won't be a big crowd......

But, then again, that was the whole point.......
:seeya:

Kat

[Jester]

So, this is a hot case, on all the front pages of the news all over the country and world?

I never claimed to be a Moderator, I have the greatest respect for the one who is though.,

:)
Kat

If it's not cold, it must be hot?

The case is more difficult to solve because the prime suspect has a reasonable explanation for having his DNA at the crime scene.

[Leanne Weich]

Kat I brought this over from another forum a few days ago . Don't know if you saw it or not. We know have another time span on an indictment. Its the 7:24 and 7:50 am posts. I am a bit confused as to why someone at the courthouse would be making these remarks and not following through on an indictment immediately. Why the wait?


http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/6-vt136.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125

You're obviously very enamoured with Scout's forum, why don't you post there?

Unfortunately no matter how sure LE or any specific investigator is that Jason is guilty, unless and until the DA is ready to bring this case before a GJ, nothing further will happen. Doesn't mean there is never going to be an arrest, trial and conviction.

[5swab5]

I can give you a good example why I don't post there. Last week this woman posted there and a few days later her name and where she lived were posted there. Not only that but they posted when her husband died. CW runs this site with the respect fellow posters deserve. If you post there I bet they know everything there is to know about you. You may be safe now but just post something they don't like and see how fast she lets the dogs loose on you. Didn't you see where she let them have 2 hrs. to say anything about people that post at IS. I thought of a bunch of dogs running with saliva dripping from their mouths as they posted. They couldn't post fast enough or say enough bad things.
I pointed it out to Kat because if there is no arrest they will say it never happened. Of course the posts will disappear.
You are safe posting on a site like IS. It is ran by Tru TV.

Lordy, I wish you would post there and KEEP IT OFF THIS BOARD!!

This message board is about Michelle Young and things that pertain to her and her son's brutal slaughter. It is NOT about other boards, other posters on other boards, other moderators on other boards, or your perception of what other posters or other moderators on other boards do or do not do correctly.

Thanks In Advance!

[5swab5]

(snipped)The WDS and The judgment were civil suits . They have no bearing on the criminal aspect of who killed Michelle Young. (snipped)


You can repeat that until the cows come home, but things have to be looked at in their totality.

Here's a sampling:

IF Jason were innocent, would he have refused to talk to LE?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have offered a reward for the murderer(s) of his wife and son to be brought to justice?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have left a million dollar LI policy on the table?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have openly lobbied for the N.C Fetal Homicide Law to be enacted?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have avoided all the Memorials for Michelle?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have begged in the media for the killer(s) to be found and prosecuted?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have neglected to appear in court to defend himself against a WDS?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have sat idly by and allowed a judgment of $15,573,104.40 to be entered against himself?

IF Jason were innocent, would he have ceded PRIMARY physical custody of his only daughter to the very people, that he wouldn't even let see her without a fuss, just a few months earlier?

Consciousness of Guilt finds its way into trials in all kinds of ways.

MOO

[Cardinal]

Lordy, I wish you would post there and KEEP IT OFF THIS BOARD!!

This message board is about Michelle Young and things that pertain to her and her son's brutal slaughter. It is NOT about other boards, other posters on other boards, other moderators on other boards, or your perception of what other posters or other moderators on other boards do or do not do correctly.

Thanks In Advance!

Excellent post, Swabby. (Although I think you posted it on the wrong forum.)

FWIW, I don't think Michelle's case is cold, nor do I think posters have lost interest. I think a lot of the speculation and issues have been put to rest by the SWs and civil actions over the past few months (the affair with MM, whether or not Cassidy should spend time with Linda and Meredith, etc.), and the discussion has diminished accordingly.

But no one who is truly committed to justice for Michelle has lost interest in this case, IMO.

[Tia]

Excellent post, Swabby. (Although I think you posted it on the wrong forum.)

FWIW, I don't think Michelle's case is cold, nor do I think posters have lost interest. I think a lot of the speculation and issues have been put to rest by the SWs and civil actions over the past few months (the affair with MM, whether or not Cassidy should spend time with Linda and Meredith, etc.), and the discussion has diminished accordingly.

But no one who is truly committed to justice for Michelle has lost interest in this case, IMO.


Exactly.

"No one who is truly commited to Justice for Michelle has lost interest in this case."

Perfectly said.

[5swab5]

Just like your post above , right. What I brought here was about the case. I merely answered a question poised by another poster .

Whatever. :rolleyes:

It isn't the first time you have brought up that other board and that other poster, judging by your response I guess you feel entitled and it won't be the last. :shrug: Personally I am sick of hearing about June.

Besides. I thought it has been posted, that it is against the rules to talk about posters that no longer post here. I hope that isn't only true if the poster happens to think that Jason is guilty. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

<respectfully snipped>
But no one who is truly committed to justice for Michelle has lost interest in this case, IMO.



I think that is the reason we all started posting here, we all want justice for Michelle, but for anyone to say that Jason has lost ANY freedom, must not be familiar with the way justice works or what it means to serve time as punishment.

That would mean not waking up in your own bed whatever time you feel like it.

It would mean not being able to walk outside and get fresh air whenever you want, or jumping in your car to go and do anything you choose.

It would mean being in a controlled environment where someone tells you want to do every second of the day.

It would mean your privacy was taken away and you would be subject to being searched whenever someone decided to.

It would mean you could only see your loved ones through a glass partition and only on certain days and only for a certain amount of time.

It would mean your outside communications could be read and censored.

It woud mean life as you knew it would be over.

Not trips to Puerto Rico, not playing bball.........not watching sports when he wants, where he wants, and with who he wants to.

Yes, someday there may be justice for Michelle, but I hope when it comes it is not met with indifference, of a "so what" or "who cares" at that point.

I hope the end of this case is not so anti~climatic that people will feel sorry for even following it and feeling that they wasted their time....

JMO
Kat

[jerzeegirl]

It is most definitely not a cold case.

I didn't realize that you were a moderator, and in a position to state what criteria is necessary for the discussion to continue on this forum.



Cold case refers to a crime or accident that has not been solved and is not the subject of current criminal investigation or civil litigation, but for which new information could emerge from new witness testimony or re-examined archives, as well as retained material evidence. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_case

[trucrime]

So, this is a hot case, on all the front pages of the news all over the country and world?

I never claimed to be a Moderator, I have the greatest respect for the one who is though.,

:)
Kat

Uh, most cases arent "hot cases" on the "front pages" Kat. We all know this. If you applied that to every case on the "current crimes" folder, it'd be hard to find topics that would be "current" since they arent on the "front pages" of the news.

Here's the first several topics (aside of the MY folder) and for me, when I heard of them or how):

Police Abuse in Ohio (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Remember John Graziano? The victim in the Nick Hogan accident.. (heard about this - but its far from a "hot case" today)
Father of 14 jailed for owing half-million in child support (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
3 police officers shot in Pittsburgh (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
No. Car. Police Officer shot and killed, second injured (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
I-80 Standoff Includes Felon, Wife, Children (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Trucker and his fiancee admit murder (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
California police: Four officers shot in Oakland (heard about this, but not recently)
Man Fights for Son Taken by Now-Deceased Wife (heard about this due to international attention)
BI database links long-haul truckers, serial killings (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)

Nor have I posted on the majority of those folders. But does that make them "cold" or "old" crimes, I dont think so. People are interested. IMO.

[jerzeegirl]

Uh, most cases arent "hot cases" on the "front pages" Kat. We all know this. If you applied that to every case on the "current crimes" folder, it'd be hard to find topics that would be "current" since they arent on the "front pages" of the news.

Here's the first several topics (aside of the MY folder) and for me, when I heard of them or how):

Police Abuse in Ohio (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Remember John Graziano? The victim in the Nick Hogan accident.. (heard about this - but its far from a "hot case" today)
Father of 14 jailed for owing half-million in child support (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
3 police officers shot in Pittsburgh (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
No. Car. Police Officer shot and killed, second injured (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
I-80 Standoff Includes Felon, Wife, Children (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Trucker and his fiancee admit murder (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
California police: Four officers shot in Oakland (heard about this, but not recently)
Man Fights for Son Taken by Now-Deceased Wife (heard about this due to international attention)
BI database links long-haul truckers, serial killings (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)

Nor have I posted on the majority of those folders. But does that make them "cold" or "old" crimes, I dont think so. People are interested. IMO.

hi tru, i totally agree. If any posters out there think this is a cold crime and everything has been discussed, then they dont need to come here. No one is forcing anyone to come here and read and or discuss this case. I know there are alot of people who check in to see if anything knew has happened. People come, go, get involved in other cases, no biggie, Michelle and Rylan still deserve justice and I for one believe they deserve a spot on this current crime board. If others believe they dont deserve a small space in cyber world, they dont need to be here. No one here is hurting anyone by coming on Michelles forum once a day or 50,000 times a day. Makes no difference. If CW feels the need to move this board, shes da boss. Until then, why complain about it.

[Kat4Eagles]

Uh, most cases arent "hot cases" on the "front pages" Kat. We all know this. If you applied that to every case on the "current crimes" folder, it'd be hard to find topics that would be "current" since they arent on the "front pages" of the news.

Here's the first several topics (aside of the MY folder) and for me, when I heard of them or how):

Police Abuse in Ohio (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Remember John Graziano? The victim in the Nick Hogan accident.. (heard about this - but its far from a "hot case" today)
Father of 14 jailed for owing half-million in child support (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
3 police officers shot in Pittsburgh (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
No. Car. Police Officer shot and killed, second injured (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
I-80 Standoff Includes Felon, Wife, Children (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
Trucker and his fiancee admit murder (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)
California police: Four officers shot in Oakland (heard about this, but not recently)
Man Fights for Son Taken by Now-Deceased Wife (heard about this due to international attention)
BI database links long-haul truckers, serial killings (Didnt hear about this until it appeared on IS)

Nor have I posted on the majority of those folders. But does that make them "cold" or "old" crimes, I dont think so. People are interested. IMO.


If anything ever happens in this case, the Board would open to discuss it..

In the above cases, people must have something to discuss.

Does anyone have anything to discuss here?

Some people think Jason is guilty and don't even care if he is ever arrested. They have already decided he has been punished and that he has lost everything.....

So much so, in fact, that when it comes time for 12 people to decide whether the killer or killers in this case should get the DP, it won't even matter to them.

:shrug:


Kat

[Cardinal]

If anything ever happens in this case, the Board would open to discuss it..

In the above cases, people must have something to discuss.

Does anyone have anything to discuss here?

Some people think Jason is guilty and don't even care if he is ever arrested. They have already decided he has been punished and that he has lost everything.....

So much so, in fact, that when it comes time for 12 people to decide whether the killer or killers in this case should get the DP, it won't even matter to them.

:shrug:


Kat

It will matter, Kat. After having heard the evidence and seen the photos in this case, I don't think it's possible for 12 people to sit in a jury room and have it not matter. Yes, by his own inactions, Jason has lost a great deal. But no one has yet been held accountable, in a criminal proceeding, for Michelle's murder. And I for one won't be satisfied until that happens. Michelle and Rylan deserve that.


And I agree with Jerzee - the number of posts on this thread isn't indicative of the interest in this case. I'm very interested still. I've just been working very long hours and haven't had time to post.

[Cardinal]

So, has anyone else noted, that in the plethora of SWs issued/published over the past few months, none of the PC references the therapist's notes?

There must be something highly relevant in those notes, or the judge wouldn't have ordered them disclosed. Yet there hasn't been a single mention of their contents.

There must be something very explosive in those notes, for LE to sit on them all this time, IMO.

[Hey Paula]

So, has anyone else noted, that in the plethora of SWs issued/published over the past few months, none of the PC references the therapist's notes?

There must be something highly relevant in those notes, or the judge wouldn't have ordered them disclosed. Yet there hasn't been a single mention of their contents.

There must be something very explosive in those notes, for LE to sit on them all this time, IMO.

I agree with you, and have always felt the therapist's notes might have provided a link to/motive for Michelle's murder. I believe the judge ordered them to be released because of what they revealed (in hindsight perhaps) and its proximity to Michelle's murder. I wonder if the therapist's specialty of transgender issues is relevant?

IMO

[Cardinal]

I agree with you, and have always felt the therapist's notes might have provided a link to/motive for Michelle's murder. I believe the judge ordered them to be released because of what they revealed (in hindsight perhaps) and its proximity to Michelle's murder. I wonder if the therapist's specialty of transgender issues is relevant?

IMO

I've always wondered that, Paula. And the more that has been revealed, the more I wonder.

I suspect Jason Young has unplumbed secrets (no pun intended).

[Hey Paula]

I've always wondered that, Paula. And the more that has been revealed, the more I wonder.

I suspect Jason Young has unplumbed secrets (no pun intended).

I think JY has secrets too, Cardinal.

I don't know if you followed Laci Peterson's murder, but I believe there are similarities. I recall Scott Peterson's sister, Anne Bird, related an incident which occurred in a gay bar and how perplexed SP was that the patrons didn't flirt with him. There were also other such rumors.

[Cardinal]

I think JY has secrets too, Cardinal.

I don't know if you followed Laci Peterson's murder, but I believe there are similarities. I recall Scott Peterson's sister, Anne Bird, related an incident which occurred in a gay bar and how perplexed SP was that the patrons didn't flirt with him. There were also other such rumors.

I didn't follow Laci's murder closely, so no, I didn't know that. It's kinda creepy though, the similarities - don't you think?

I think in Michelle's case, LE has been cleverly selective about the release of information. And I wonder what we don't yet know.

[trucrime]

I didn't follow Laci's murder closely, so no, I didn't know that. It's kinda creepy though, the similarities - don't you think?

I think in Michelle's case, LE has been cleverly selective about the release of information. And I wonder what we don't yet know.

Im sure interested in those therapists notes. I agree, I think LE is holding some cards close to their chest for when Jason is finally arrested for the criminal portion. JMO.

[Jester]

Some people think Jason is guilty and don't even care if he is ever arrested. They have already decided he has been punished and that he has lost everything.....

:shrug:


Kat

Snipped for emphasis ... I find the above statement very difficult to believe. It would be highly unusual for anyone to believe that a man is guilty of the brutal murder of his wife and unborn child, yet not care whether he is ever brought to trial for the crime.

[Jester]

I agree with you, and have always felt the therapist's notes might have provided a link to/motive for Michelle's murder. I believe the judge ordered them to be released because of what they revealed (in hindsight perhaps) and its proximity to Michelle's murder. I wonder if the therapist's specialty of transgender issues is relevant?

IMO

IIRC, the therapist was one of the therapists on the list of people to see per insurance. It's my understanding that Michelle met with her because of her training as a therapist, not because of that particular specialization.

[Hey Paula]

I didn't follow Laci's murder closely, so no, I didn't know that. It's kinda creepy though, the similarities - don't you think?

I think in Michelle's case, LE has been cleverly selective about the release of information. And I wonder what we don't yet know.

Yes, very creepy indeed. In many cases, the defense. as well as guilty defendants themselves, are very similar. I suppose that's because the defense for the indefensible is limited and sociopaths'/psychopaths' behavior is universal.

I have no doubt there are things yet unknown in this case. I also believe that in every trial, there are things which are never publicly disclosed due to the standard being probative vs prejudicial.

IMO

[Hey Paula]

IIRC, the therapist was one of the therapists on the list of people to see per insurance. It's my understanding that Michelle met with her because of her training as a therapist, not because of that particular specialization.

I wonder if there were other therapists' names on that list? And if so, was her specialty listed next to her name?

[Jester]

I wonder if there were other therapists' names on that list? And if so, was her specialty listed next to her name?

My experience is that sometimes there is a list of people that are pre-approved by insurance. There would have been at least two people on the list. I remember from very early discussions that this was the case with Michelle's company. It's sometimes possible to request an alternate. Usually, the specialization (other than psychologist, psychiatrist, etc) is not included. Michelle may have chosen the therapist simply because she preferred to speak with a woman.

[Barbara2]

Snipped for emphasis ... I find the above statement very difficult to believe. It would be highly unusual for anyone to believe that a man is guilty of the brutal murder of his wife and unborn child, yet not care whether he is ever brought to trial for the crime.

It is a misrepresentation and exaggeration of a post that was made. IMO

[caffeinated]

My experience is that sometimes there is a list of people that are pre-approved by insurance. There would have been at least two people on the list. I remember from very early discussions that this was the case with Michelle's company. It's sometimes possible to request an alternate. Usually, the specialization (other than psychologist, psychiatrist, etc) is not included. Michelle may have chosen the therapist simply because she preferred to speak with a woman.
IIRC this therapist was within walking distance from PE, this would be very convenient for a lunch appt., not having to drive there and park would be appealing to a busy young Mom dedicated to both work and her family.

[Jester]

It is a misrepresentation and exaggeration of a post that was made. IMO

I was concerned that it may have been my post that was misrepresented. I posted that, thankfully, there had been some financial, and social, justice. That is, Jason will not profit from Michelle's murder, and he will not exclude her family from his daughter's life. No sensible woman will marry him, or have children with him, while he has the "slayer" label. His career is ruined and his financial future is empty, but I in no way intended to suggest that justice was done.

[Barbara2]

I was concerned that it may have been my post that was misrepresented. I posted that, thankfully, there had been some financial, and social, justice. That is, Jason will not profit from Michelle's murder, and he will not exclude her family from his daughter's life. No sensible woman will marry him, or have children with him, while he has the "slayer" label. His career is ruined and his financial future is empty, but I in no way intended to suggest that justice was done.

I'm not sure which post was targeted. It just seemed to me to be a baiting post and not intended to contribute to the actual discussion. I have read most of the posts here and I have seen some posters express that they feel that Jason is already in a prison of his own making. I have not seen anyone say that they are satisfied that he has been "punished enough". IMO

[Jester]

IIRC this therapist was within walking distance from PE, this would be very convenient for a lunch appt., not having to drive there and park would be appealing to a busy young Mom dedicated to both work and her family.

I think Michelle put up a good front at work, and did not drag her home life problems into the office. As such, in my opinion, she would have ensured that her therapist visits were discrete and confidential. That would be one reason to see one of the therapists on the approved list. I didn't realize that the therapist was near her office, but that would be a good choice if she wanted to meet with the therapist during lunch without accounting for the time to anyone. Given Jason's attitude about picking up Cassidy while he was not working, I doubt he would have given Michelle a break to see a therapist.

[Jester]

I'm not sure which post was targeted. It just seemed to me to be a baiting post and not intended to contribute to the actual discussion. I have read most of the posts here and I have seen some posters express that they feel that Jason is already in a prison of his own making. I have not seen anyone say that they are satisfied that he has been "punished enough". IMO

I agree that Jason is in a prison of his own making. His mother is his only travel companion, he cannot keep a job, his daughter is gone, his reputation is ruined, his future finances are spoken for. All he has to do is open his mouth and tell the police who stained the deck, and they'll be on their way looking for that person. The shoe print on the deck matches one of the shoe prints in blood at the murder scene. It seems like one sentence could clear this up and Jason could have his life back. It's awfully strange that an innocent man wants to protect the person that may have murdered his wife, unless Jason is the person that stained the deck.

[Barbara2]

I agree that Jason is in a prison of his own making. His mother is his only travel companion, he cannot keep a job, his daughter is gone, his reputation is ruined, his future finances are spoken for. All he has to do is open his mouth and tell the police who stained the deck, and they'll be on their way looking for that person. The shoe print on the deck matches one of the shoe prints in blood at the murder scene. It seems like one sentence could clear this up and Jason could have his life back. It's awfully strange that an innocent man wants to protect the person that may have murdered his wife, unless Jason is the person that stained the deck.

There was a post earlier today or maybe it was late yesterday; anyway the poster inferred that the murder would have been solved if only the investigators would have been nicer to Jason. That implies that either Jason would have told on himself if they had been nicer or he would have given them information that would have led to someone else. If the latter were the case, why would he withhold that information? Why would he NOT want the murderer of his wife and son arrested and convicted? Unless of course that murderer is himself.

[reborn]

If anything ever happens in this case, the Board would open to discuss it..

In the above cases, people must have something to discuss.

Does anyone have anything to discuss here?

Some people think Jason is guilty and don't even care if he is ever arrested. They have already decided he has been punished and that he has lost everything.....

So much so, in fact, that when it comes time for 12 people to decide whether the killer or killers in this case should get the DP, it won't even matter to them.

:shrug:


Kat


Where is JN's forum? She also lost a baby along with her life. She was murdered after Michelle and just 5 miles away. Her case seems to have gone cold a long time ago. How does someone decide when a case has gone cold? When there is nothing new to discuss? What is new in this case? The last warrant is over a month old and it was for an on site account. I haven't figured out yet why LE even wanted it. Wouldn't you think that in a month LE has had time to read all the posts . I guess they were hoping Jason would be crazy enough to tell someone he murdered Michelle. I bet if there are posts on that site saying he had nothing what so ever to do with the murder you nor I will never know about them. Remember the emails between Jason and his sister? There wasn't one thing in those emails that pointed to any evidence that Jason killed his wife. Has anybody figured out why LE made them public? LE's conversations with Alan Fisher. Was there anything in them that was of any evidence that Jason killed his wife? Has anybody figured out why LE decided to share them with the public? I have a theory. Those emails and conversations will never see the inside of a court room but they sure can taint a jury pool by being released to WRAL. Will anything found on Jason's Bebo and Google account ever reach a court room ? Doubtful but there you go WRAL has them and they reach the jury pool. I have seen where Jason had an affair with CAS. I haven't seen any evidence to that but several people are telling it like it really happened. Did it? I don't know and probably LE doesn't know but WRAL told it so there is your tainted jury pool. I think LE is throwing out as many things as they can in hopes that a jury will convict Jason on what might have happened not on what happened.

[caffeinated]

I think Michelle put up a good front at work, and did not drag her home life problems into the office. As such, in my opinion, she would have ensured that her therapist visits were discrete and confidential. That would be one reason to see one of the therapists on the approved list. I didn't realize that the therapist was near her office, but that would be a good choice if she wanted to meet with the therapist during lunch without accounting for the time to anyone. Given Jason's attitude about picking up Cassidy while he was not working, I doubt he would have given Michelle a break to see a therapist.

I just mapquested them, 3 miles, not sidewalk all the way, I suspect she wouldn't have walked there after looking further

[reborn]

I agree that Jason is in a prison of his own making. His mother is his only travel companion, he cannot keep a job, his daughter is gone, his reputation is ruined, his future finances are spoken for. All he has to do is open his mouth and tell the police who stained the deck, and they'll be on their way looking for that person. The shoe print on the deck matches one of the shoe prints in blood at the murder scene. It seems like one sentence could clear this up and Jason could have his life back. It's awfully strange that an innocent man wants to protect the person that may have murdered his wife, unless Jason is the person that stained the deck.


Jester we have butted heads on that before. The last time that print on the deck was mentioned Det Murray was investigsting to see if they matched. I have never seen where they matched or was even made by the same kind of shoe. If you want to keep insisting they were a match why don't you call Wake Co and ask? Maybe they were but I haven't seen any report by Murray to that effect. There are some on here that say they call or email Wake County so Call them and see if the Franklin matched the deck stain?

[Pat]

Why the push to get this case off the main page? I've never posted here but I check in regularly (after a break from CTV for awhile).

This was a particularly heinous crime and the spouse of the victim has certainly never fully cooperated with the police. He's still a suspect.
Although things are moving slowly, they are moving.

Let's not be so hasty trying to, in effect, bury this case.

[5swab5]

I just mapquested them, 3 miles, not sidewalk all the way, I suspect she wouldn't have walked there after looking further

I think she may have picked a therapist from the list at PE, so she didn't risk Jason finding out that she was seeing one. MOO

[reborn]

Whatever. :rolleyes:

It isn't the first time you have brought up that other board and that other poster, judging by your response I guess you feel entitled and it won't be the last. :shrug: Personally I am sick of hearing about June.

Besides. I thought it has been posted, that it is against the rules to talk about posters that no longer post here. I hope that isn't only true if the poster happens to think that Jason is guilty. MOO


In case you over looked it Cardinal brought her to the forum last night. she was praying for her.

[Barbara2]

I think she may have picked a therapist from the list at PE, so she didn't risk Jason finding out that she was seeing one. MOO

Picking from a list at work would make sense anyway. How many women her age would know where to turn for a therapist? I don't think that's something that is talked about in the break room.

[5swab5]

Why the push to get this case off the main page? I've never posted here but I check in regularly (after a break from CTV for awhile).

This was a particularly heinous crime and the spouse of the victim has certainly never fully cooperated with the police. He's still a suspect.
Although things are moving slowly, they are moving.

Let's not be so hasty trying to, in effect, bury this case.

Hi Pat, :seeya:

I don't think anyone wants the case off the main page, the post that started all this was a baiting post, that's normal for these parts.

This case is anything but cold. MOO

[5swab5]

Picking from a list at work would make sense anyway. How many women her age would know where to turn for a therapist? I don't think that's something that is talked about in the break room.

Agreed. I think Michelle was getting her ducks in a row to kick the lying, cheating bum O.U.T. MOO

[reborn]

Why the push to get this case off the main page? I've never posted here but I check in regularly (after a break from CTV for awhile).

This was a particularly heinous crime and the spouse of the victim has certainly never fully cooperated with the police. He's still a suspect.
Although things are moving slowly, they are moving.

Let's not be so hasty trying to, in effect, bury this case.


This case isn't on the main page. It was taken off the main pages ages ago. If I remember correctly it was locked because so many people were fighting. This one under current crimes is locked on occasion. Then someone will start it again.

[Stellagant]

So, has anyone else noted, that in the plethora of SWs issued/published over the past few months, none of the PC references the therapist's notes?

There must be something highly relevant in those notes, or the judge wouldn't have ordered them disclosed. Yet there hasn't been a single mention of their contents.

There must be something very explosive in those notes, for LE to sit on them all this time, IMO.

FYI: The Judge released the therapist notes to the DA's investigator, NOT the WCSO investigators.

[janesdeaan]

snipped from reborns post:

Where is JN's forum? She also lost a baby along with her life. What is new in this case? Remember the emails between Jason and his sister? There wasn't one thing in those emails that pointed to any evidence that Jason killed his wife. Has anybody figured out why LE made them public? LE's conversations with Alan Fisher. Was there anything in them that was of any evidence that Jason killed his wife? I have a theory. Those emails and conversations will never see the inside of a court room but they sure can taint a jury pool by being released to WRAL. I don't know and probably LE doesn't know but WRAL told it so there is your tainted jury pool. I think LE is throwing out as many things as they can in hopes that a jury will convict Jason on what might have happened not on what happened.

Oh my, well first off YOU could start a thread for Jenna Neilson, right ?
Why do you and another poster want this message board for Michelle shut down so bad ? What other cases do you ever hear people saying oh well, they haven't solved it yet, so they probably never will ? I would guess if this was YOUR loved one who had been murdered, you might sing a different tune. This board and others like it will stay open until justice has been served, people who are GENUINELY concerned about that happening never complain that "there's no new news", "it's a cold case", they (we) just keep checking in on various boards daily in hopes the case will have been solved. Your last comment about LE hoping they can just convict Jason on what might have happened and not on what did happen has me floored. Why on earth would LE invest all their time, resources and manpower investigating this case if they're objective isn't to see the perp responsible for the murder pay for it ? Who in their right mind would let the guilty person walk free in their own neighborhoods and convict an innocent man ? NO ONE and your allegations that LE is trying to railroad Jason are preposterous.

[5swab5]

FYI: The Judge released the therapist notes to the DA's investigator, NOT the WCSO investigators.

By Sarah Ovaska, Staff Writer
In a court order, a Wake County Superior Court judge ordered murder victim Michelle Young's therapist to share what she knows with detectives.
The order was signed Feb. 16 by Superior Court Judge Donald Stephens after Stephens met with therapist Kimball Jane Sargent behind closed doors, according to court documents.

Sargent provided information relevant to Young's homicide, Stephens wrote, but did not elaborate on what information she may have....

[Psydwannabe]

I can't believe people are still talking about this case. There will be a resolution someday. Jason Young will be tried and convicted. Shoot, Scott Peterson got the DP for less evidence. Now that Jason has nothing left to barter with he must be starting to realize he has already lost everything he so desperately wanted to hold onto (money) and the rest is just some scratchy version of an off key wannabe blues song.
JMO

[Jester]

I can't believe people are still talking about this case. There will be a resolution someday. Jason Young will be tried and convicted. Shoot, Scott Peterson got the DP for less evidence. Now that Jason has nothing left to barter with he must be starting to realize he has already lost everything he so desperately wanted to hold onto (money) and the rest is just some scratchy version of an off key wannabe blues song.
JMO

Good to see you again. Do they play the blues in Brevard? It seems like more of a hillbilly type music place to me. With the river rafting, it reminds me a bit of Deliverance. Do you think Jason could get a job helping with the river rafting tours? He seems a bit tall and gangley to be a river rafter, but it's better than sitting around watching TV all summer.

There was a hint that the police are pushing him into a position where he may speak. Wouldn't that be unusual! If he would tell the police the name of the person that stained his deck, at least they have solid evidence against that person. That would move things towards a resolution.

Any thoughts on why Jason is protecting the guy that stained his deck?

[Jester]

There's no suggestion that Jason is gay or that a close friend of his helped with the murder, is there? There were some New York searches on gay bars on his computer. That's a bit weird, but maybe he thought his wife was secretly visiting gay bars during the visit between their daughter and her grandmother.

Why was Jason looking into Gay Bars in New York? Was he bicurious?

[Jester]

On second thoughts, Jason may be perfect for the river rafting tours. He's familiar with the river ... what's that called again ... the broad river? Anyway, he drove his car into the river, so he knows a little more about the river around Brevard than the average person.

I wonder what Jason is doing this summer. No wife. No daughter. No son. No rent. No mortgage. No broken garage door. No broken heater. No party for the weekend that he can't afford. No pregnant wife planning to reduce her career load within the year. No job. No nothing. Back home with mom, everything gone. Maybe he'll go to the beach ... call up someone with a beach house and let them know he's coming to visit. I'm sure that having Cassidy with him gives him an in ... for now

[Jester]

Speaking of decks, I distinctly recall the neighbor of the slayer adamantly claiming that the slayer stained the deck shortly before Halloween, 2006.

About a year later, the deck stain was seized ... maybe November 2007? There were search warrants shortly after statements were made on the internet stating that Jason stained the deck shortly before Halloween, 2006. That statement came via the neighbor in response to why police were taking the back deck boards ... something like that.

Michelle, who was pregnant, was murdered on November 3, 2006, shortly after halloween. If there is a footprint in the deck stain that matches (not identical, but similar size and pattern) a bloody shoeprint at the murder scene, that's very significant.

Why won't Jason give up the name of the person that stained his deck, and whose footprint is on the deck and at the murder scene in blood?

Sorry for being repetitive, but I don't get it. He's lost everything ... all he has to do is answer a couple of questions with guaranteed freedom from persecution, and still he won't. Stepdad McIntyre expressed fears of persecution at the beginning, but we're way past that. Answering a simple question like who stained the deck would clear everything up.

He could even volunteer the information without fear of persecution, if he is innocent.

[Leanne Weich]

Jester, it makes absolutely no sense, imo, that if Jason were innocent, he'd not have told who stained the deck. That could and almost assuredly would have meant he'd not have been named Michelle's slayer and he wouldn't have had to virtually give Cassie to Meredith. JMVUOOC.

[Stellagant]

By Sarah Ovaska, Staff Writer
In a court order, a Wake County Superior Court judge ordered murder victim Michelle Young's therapist to share what she knows with detectives.
The order was signed Feb. 16 by Superior Court Judge Donald Stephens after Stephens met with therapist Kimball Jane Sargent behind closed doors, according to court documents.

Sargent provided information relevant to Young's homicide, Stephens wrote, but did not elaborate on what information she may have....

Try reading the Order yourself rather than relying on the media to provide a generalized account. :rolleyes:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/02/22/1211501/Order%20to%20Examine%20Michelle%20Young%20Therapy% 20Documents.swf

"to William F. Dowdy, an investigator with the Wake County District Attorney's office."

[kingbuff]

Try reading the Order yourself rather than relying on the media to provide a generalized account. :rolleyes:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/02/22/1211501/Order%20to%20Examine%20Michelle%20Young%20Therapy% 20Documents.swf

"to William F. Dowdy, an investigator with the Wake County District Attorney's office."

One thing I've learned from following this case: the media cannot be trusted to give details. Nor can some posters. Check out the misinformation re the deck that was not stained. At one time some posters (called 'insiders') corrected misinformation. Now it seems everyone lets it slide without correcting. Must be rather confusing for occasional readers.

[reborn]

Speaking of decks, I distinctly recall the neighbor of the slayer adamantly claiming that the slayer stained the deck shortly before Halloween, 2006.

About a year later, the deck stain was seized ... maybe November 2007? There were search warrants shortly after statements were made on the internet stating that Jason stained the deck shortly before Halloween, 2006. That statement came via the neighbor in response to why police were taking the back deck boards ... something like that.

Michelle, who was pregnant, was murdered on November 3, 2006, shortly after halloween. If there is a footprint in the deck stain that matches (not identical, but similar size and pattern) a bloody shoeprint at the murder scene, that's very significant.

Why won't Jason give up the name of the person that stained his deck, and whose footprint is on the deck and at the murder scene in blood?

Sorry for being repetitive, but I don't get it. He's lost everything ... all he has to do is answer a couple of questions with guaranteed freedom from persecution, and still he won't. Stepdad McIntyre expressed fears of persecution at the beginning, but we're way past that. Answering a simple question like who stained the deck would clear everything up.

He could even volunteer the information without fear of persecution, if he is innocent.


Yea but think how he would feel if it was in SIL and her bud that stained the deck. He liked Meredith. Seems he liked her much more than he did Michelle . Remember he said Thank God for Meredith in an email to MM. When you think about it the biggest change in jasons life is which Fisher girl is raising his daughter. Makes me go hummm.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/04/4076660/20081204120316663.pdf

[KittyMom]

I don't post on this case often, but I do check in to see if there has been an arrest made. I want justice for Michelle, her children and family. Her murderer shouldn't be allowed to walk freely after ending her life, the life of her baby, and the life of her little girl. I believe that leaving her daughter alone with her body was probably one of the most cruel things he could've done.

[5swab5]

Try reading the Order yourself rather than relying on the media to provide a generalized account. :rolleyes:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2007/02/22/1211501/Order%20to%20Examine%20Michelle%20Young%20Therapy% 20Documents.swf

"to William F. Dowdy, an investigator with the Wake County District Attorney's office."


I'm so sure that the information in those notes have been kept top secret.

WRAL:

A petition states that information from therapy sessions between Michelle Young and her psychologist "is relevant to the investigation" into her slaying.

According to the petition, Kimball Jane Sargent was ordered to produce any records, writings or documents related to therapy sessions she had with Young. Sargent has since complied with the order, and she is cooperating with authorities.

According to Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby, the sessions occurred within close proximity to Young's slaying. A statute in North Carolina allows the state to ask a psychologist to turn over records and answer questions about therapy sessions if "the disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice."

"We have someone who died a violent death and it appears she sought counseling shortly before that time," Willoughby said. "The closeness in time to her death heightened our interest and we thought it would perhaps provide insights."

This part is from the local WRAL newscast that I originally transcribed on 2-22-07.

WRAL reporting that procedure to obtain info from Kimball Sargent is a "special procedure, highly unusual and a rare legal move".

N.C. law allows for a therapist to turn over info in very narrow circumstances.

Michael Teague, local psychologist, was interviewed he says confidentiality does not apply in this case, as the client would most probably want the info revealed.

.....................

Hmm, Relevant to the investigation, disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice.

Like I said, I am SO sure William F. Dowdy has kept the information in those notes ALL to himself.:rolleyes: MOO

[Tia]

Why the push to get this case off the main page? I've never posted here but I check in regularly (after a break from CTV for awhile).

This was a particularly heinous crime and the spouse of the victim has certainly never fully cooperated with the police. He's still a suspect.
Although things are moving slowly, they are moving.

Let's not be so hasty trying to, in effect, bury this case.

Hi Pat.

I don't think it will get moved off of the main page. Maybe after Jason's trial is over and he is found guilty, it will fade away (which is what I believe will happen), but for now, its still an active case.

JMO

[kingbuff]

I don't post on this case often, but I do check in to see if there has been an arrest made. I want justice for Michelle, her children and family. Her murderer shouldn't be allowed to walk freely after ending her life, the life of her baby, and the life of her little girl. I believe that leaving her daughter alone with her body was probably one of the most cruel things he could've done.

Extremely cruel....if it happened.

[5swab5]

Extremely cruel....if it happened.

No IFS about it. IMO

[Jester]

One thing I've learned from following this case: the media cannot be trusted to give details. Nor can some posters. Check out the misinformation re the deck that was not stained. At one time some posters (called 'insiders') corrected misinformation. Now it seems everyone lets it slide without correcting. Must be rather confusing for occasional readers.

Are you saying the deck was not stained at any time while Jason lived at the house, so he knows nothing about the print in the stain, or are you saying there is no print in the stain.

[Barbara2]

Are you saying the deck was not stained at any time while Jason lived at the house, so he knows nothing about the print in the stain, or are you saying there is no print in the stain.

I remember there being a discussion about the deck being sealed, not stained. I can't remember the details of the discussion.

[5swab5]

I remember there being a discussion about the deck being sealed, not stained. I can't remember the details of the discussion.

I believe you are correct. If the defense decides to hinge their RD on stain vs sealant, good luck to them. PFFFFT! MOO

[jerry50]

Here is an interesting link from FLorida regarding the death penalty and how time consuming and expensive it is to litigate.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/

The paperwork must be mind boggling to keep straight and as strict as the DA is all of his ducks will be in a row when he goes before the grand jury and JY's defense team will be the recipients of thousands of pages of discovery.

[Jester]

I remember there being a discussion about the deck being sealed, not stained. I can't remember the details of the discussion.

Thanks. I mistakenly call it stain, instead of sealant, all the time. I don't think it makes any difference in the discussion, but that is probably the point that Kingbuff objects to.

[reborn]

Here is an interesting link from FLorida regarding the death penalty and how time consuming and expensive it is to litigate.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/

The paperwork must be mind boggling to keep straight and as strict as the DA is all of his ducks will be in a row when he goes before the grand jury and JY's defense team will be the recipients of thousands of pages of discovery.

You really think it will take thousands of pages to say he had an affair. He was in the motel at midnight. he was in wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. He called his mom a lot. He called his honey a lot. His shoes could match the larger prints on the pillow. We can't find any of the missing items in his residences or storage. He seems to have misplaced a shirt. He may know where it is . He won't speak to us. The paper man saw a car that could be his between 5 and 6 AM on the 3rd. I think they could get that all on one page . But thats just my opinion.

[reborn]

No IFS about it. IMO

LE seems to disagree with you. They say the simplest explanation for the clean condition of the child was that she was removed from the home. They also said due to the clean condition of the child and the mix up over the keys its likely Michelle's car was used to remove her.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

[5swab5]

LE seems to disagree with you. They say the simplest explanation for the clean condition of the child was that she was removed from the home. They also said due to the clean condition of the child and the mix up over the keys its likely Michelle's car was used to remove her.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

They thought, past tense.

They explored the possibilities and moved on. Jason didn't have time to take Cassidy on a joy ride, but he sure had time to clean and drug her. Possibly in an attempt to kill her. Sure would explain his actions of late. Doesn't appear that Cassidy is the center of his Universe/World (forgot his exact wording) after all. As of August 1st 2009, Cassidy will be the center of Meredith's life. :smile:IMO.

[Barbara2]

You really think it will take thousands of pages to say he had an affair. He was in the motel at midnight. he was in wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. He called his mom a lot. He called his honey a lot. His shoes could match the larger prints on the pillow. We can't find any of the missing items in his residences or storage. He seems to have misplaced a shirt. He may know where it is . He won't speak to us. The paper man saw a car that could be his between 5 and 6 AM on the 3rd. I think they could get that all on one page . But thats just my opinion.

That is only a part of what has been made known in search warrants. There is more in those search warrants and more evidence that has not been made known through warrants or any other venue. IMO

[Leanne Weich]

They thought, past tense.

SNIPPED TO ADDRESS THIS ONLY

As of August 1st 2009, Cassidy will be the center of Meredith's life. :smile:IMO.

Thank the good Lord for this small mercy for Cassie.

[Barbara2]

LE seems to disagree with you. They say the simplest explanation for the clean condition of the child was that she was removed from the home. They also said due to the clean condition of the child and the mix up over the keys its likely Michelle's car was used to remove her.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

The simplest but not necessarily the correct explanation. After investigating, they seem to have come to the conclusion that the simplest explanation didn't apply. IMO

[Cardinal]

LE seems to disagree with you. They say the simplest explanation for the clean condition of the child was that she was removed from the home. They also said due to the clean condition of the child and the mix up over the keys its likely Michelle's car was used to remove her.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

Jason/Pat should have gotten a copy of that warrant when it was executed, so either he/she isn't very bright or he/she obviously doesn't think that's the case.

[reborn]

The simplest but not necessarily the correct explanation. After investigating, they seem to have come to the conclusion that the simplest explanation didn't apply. IMO

I don't know that they have come to any other conclusions. I think what LE is trying to do is show Jason was part of the murder of his wife. I think if we ever see an arrest it will be for 2 people. Will Jason be one of them? I can't wrap my mind around the fact that he was at the house. If he was going to be at the house he wouldn't have stayed at the motel any longer than it took to register. Did he know the murder was going to happen ? I don't know the answer to that and its apparent LE doesn't either.

[Barbara2]

I don't know that they have come to any other conclusions. I think what LE is trying to do is show Jason was part of the murder of his wife. I think if we ever see an arrest it will be for 2 people. Will Jason be one of them? I can't wrap my mind around the fact that he was at the house. If he was going to be at the house he wouldn't have stayed at the motel any longer than it took to register. Did he know the murder was going to happen ? I don't know the answer to that and its apparent LE doesn't either.

It is possible that there was another person involved but if so I believe it may have been after the fact. I don't believe there was another involved in the murder itself. IMO

[kingbuff]

Are you saying the deck was not stained at any time while Jason lived at the house, so he knows nothing about the print in the stain, or are you saying there is no print in the stain.

In a much earlier discussion, one poster said Jason had never stained/water proofed the deck. Who knows? Well, I think the police do.

[5swab5]

In a much earlier discussion, one poster said Jason had never stained/water proofed the deck. Who knows? Well, I think the police do.


It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't stain or seal the deck.
He didn't get the garage door fixed, the alarm system activated or the upstairs heat repaired, until Michelle and Rylan were dead and he wanted to sell the house. He even raised Cain with Michelle and said he could kill her over a little yard work.

He was too busy yucking it up with all his married girlfriends, flying to Florida for trysts and treating his side of the family to a west coast vacation. Not much time left to take care of his responsibilities at home. MOO

[Jester]

In a much earlier discussion, one poster said Jason had never stained/water proofed the deck. Who knows? Well, I think the police do.

I guess it could be argued that some stalker was on the deck shortly after it was stained, sealed, or waterproofed, and before it had cured, but that seems a little far fetched.

[Tia]

It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't stain or seal the deck.
He didn't get the garage door fixed, the alarm system activated or the upstairs heat repaired, until Michelle and Rylan were dead and he wanted to sell the house. He even raised Cain with Michelle and said he could kill her over a little yard work.

He was too busy yucking it up with all his married girlfriends, flying to Florida for trysts and treating his side of the family to a west coast vacation. Not much time left to take care of his responsibilities at home. MOO

Nope. He had very little time to take care of his day to day responsibilities with all he had going on. I wonder if we will ever know if Michelle was going to file for divorce?

[5swab5]

Nope. He had very little time to take care of his day to day responsibilities with all he had going on. I wonder if we will ever know if Michelle was going to file for divorce?

Well, we know from the March 10th SW that at least one female acquaintance thinks that Michelle Young may have been planning to divorce Jason. I imagine LE has interviewed others that either sensed it or knew it for a fact. MOO

[reborn]

Well, we know from the March 10th SW that at least one female acquaintance thinks that Michelle Young may have been planning to divorce Jason. I imagine LE has interviewed others that either sensed it or knew it for a fact. MOO


I noticed she said she thinks Michelle might have been getting a divorce. In other words she had no idea. Sounds like she just wanted her few minutes in the spot light. Wonder if this ever see a court room what she will say? She sounds a lot like Spivey. Its his opinion Jason killed Michelle he just has no evidence to that fact.

[Stellagant]

LE seems to disagree with you. They say the simplest explanation for the clean condition of the child was that she was removed from the home. They also said due to the clean condition of the child and the mix up over the keys its likely Michelle's car was used to remove her.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

Yep, the simplest explanation it is indeed. No surprise to me that they haven't made an arrest of Jason Young. A first year law student could defend Jason at this point.

Some posters seem to think that Jason knew exactly the dosage of an adult drug that would not only render his daughter asleep instantly--yet not injure her--but would keep her asleep for the exact amount of time it took Meredith to get to the house.

[Psydwannabe]

I'm so sure that the information in those notes have been kept top secret.

WRAL:

A petition states that information from therapy sessions between Michelle Young and her psychologist "is relevant to the investigation" into her slaying.

According to the petition, Kimball Jane Sargent was ordered to produce any records, writings or documents related to therapy sessions she had with Young. Sargent has since complied with the order, and she is cooperating with authorities.

According to Wake County District Attorney Colon Willoughby, the sessions occurred within close proximity to Young's slaying. A statute in North Carolina allows the state to ask a psychologist to turn over records and answer questions about therapy sessions if "the disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice."

"We have someone who died a violent death and it appears she sought counseling shortly before that time," Willoughby said. "The closeness in time to her death heightened our interest and we thought it would perhaps provide insights."

This part is from the local WRAL newscast that I originally transcribed on 2-22-07.

WRAL reporting that procedure to obtain info from Kimball Sargent is a "special procedure, highly unusual and a rare legal move".

N.C. law allows for a therapist to turn over info in very narrow circumstances.

Michael Teague, local psychologist, was interviewed he says confidentiality does not apply in this case, as the client would most probably want the info revealed.

.....................

Hmm, Relevant to the investigation, disclosure is necessary to a proper administration of justice.

Like I said, I am SO sure William F. Dowdy has kept the information in those notes ALL to himself.:rolleyes: MOO



I don't know who to quote on this but the information that the priviledged information, as stated by Dr. Teague above where (s)he states that "...confidentiality would not matter..."because the patient would want the information revealed were they alive." Wrong jmo

[5swab5]

I noticed she said she thinks Michelle might have been getting a divorce. In other words she had no idea. Sounds like she just wanted her few minutes in the spot light. Wonder if this ever see a court room what she will say? She sounds a lot like Spivey. Its his opinion Jason killed Michelle he just has no evidence to that fact.


Good Grief ....Spivey has plenty of evidence, don't even worry about that. Jason will be arrested as soon as CW is ready, Spivey's BEEN ready.:biggrin:

Can anyone honestly look at Michelle and Jason's marriage and say that it stood an ice cube's chance in he!!?

They were having volatile fights that sometimes lasted for hour and hours.
Jason was fighting with Michelle in private enough, that he punched holes in walls and ripped down a door.
Jason was telling Michelle that he could kill her, over yard work.

They were having money troubles, yet Jason sported his side of the family to a west coast vacation.

Jason was getting drunk and disrobing in people's houses after soiling himself...you would think he would have been more understanding when Cassidy had an accident.

Jason had guest(s?) in their marital bed, as evidenced by the errant panties. Jason was cruising with Mr. Garrison to visit other women. He was blatant about his cheating, which makes it even worse.

Jason couldn't be bothered to have the heating system, garage door or alarm fixed in the Birchleaf house, but he had plenty of time to contact MM 980 times in a month.

Jason was too busy or inept OR both, to be able to do a little yard work and watch a toddler without a brewski in one hand and a cell phone in the other.

Jason was spending their money to travel to Florida to do the hokeypokey with Michelle Money.

Jason thought no more of Michelle than to betray her, with a best friend. And please don't forget, Jason was telling Michelle Money AND his friends and that he loved her.

Michelle had started seeing a Therapist, do you wonder why?

And you determine from the SW, that the friend who said that she thought Michelle might be getting ready to divorce Jason, was just looking for her 15 minutes? Unbelievable. Sounds to me like she was paying attention. MOO

[reborn]

Good Grief ....Spivey has plenty of evidence, don't even worry about that. Jason will be arrested as soon as CW is ready, Spivey's BEEN ready.:biggrin:

Can anyone honestly look at Michelle and Jason's marriage and say that it stood an ice cube's chance in he!!?

They were having volatile fights that sometimes lasted for hour and hours.
Jason was fighting with Michelle in private enough, that he punched holes in walls and ripped down a door.
Jason was telling Michelle that he could kill her, over yard work.

They were having money troubles, yet Jason sported his side of the family to a west coast vacation.

Jason was getting drunk and disrobing in people's houses after soiling himself...you would think he would have been more understanding when Cassidy had an accident.

Jason had guest(s?) in their marital bed, as evidenced by the errant panties. Jason was cruising with Mr. Garrison to visit other women. He was blatant about his cheating, which makes it even worse.

Jason couldn't be bothered to have the heating system, garage door or alarm fixed in the Birchleaf house, but he had plenty of time to contact MM 980 times in a month.

Jason was too busy or inept OR both, to be able to do a little yard work and watch a toddler without a brewski in one hand and a cell phone in the other.

Jason was spending their money to travel to Florida to do the hokeypokey with Michelle Money.

Jason thought no more of Michelle than to betray her, with a best friend. And please don't forget, Jason was telling Michelle Money AND his friends and that he loved her.

Michelle had started seeing a Therapist, do you wonder why?

And you determine from the SW, that the friend who said that she thought Michelle might be getting ready to divorce Jason, was just looking for her 15 minutes? Unbelievable. Sounds to me like she was paying attention. MOO

You don't have to write pages about how bad their marriage was . I know it was a marriage made in hell. But Michelle wanted it and I just can't see her admitting defeat so easy. I wish we knew more about Jason's first love. The one he was engaged to when Michelle came along. I wonder in the one email if she was who Jason was talking about? Where he was saying they never got married. I think Michelle was making sure she had a new baby just so Jason wouldn't walk. She knew he married her because she was pregnant so common sense says he wouldn't be the type man to leave a pregnant wife. I can't in my wildest imagination see a woman get pregnant twice in such a short period of time by someone they were planning to divorce. Its been my experience when a marriage goes bad the woman/man doesn't want the other anywhere near them. No I don't think Michelle was planning on a divorce . I think she was making sure Jason wasn't either. IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Good Grief ....Spivey has plenty of evidence, don't even worry about that. Jason will be arrested as soon as CW is ready, Spivey's BEEN ready.:biggrin:

Can anyone honestly look at Michelle and Jason's marriage and say that it stood an ice cube's chance in he!!?

They were having volatile fights that sometimes lasted for hour and hours.
Jason was fighting with Michelle in private enough, that he punched holes in walls and ripped down a door.
Jason was telling Michelle that he could kill her, over yard work.

They were having money troubles, yet Jason sported his side of the family to a west coast vacation.

Jason was getting drunk and disrobing in people's houses after soiling himself...you would think he would have been more understanding when Cassidy had an accident.

Jason had guest(s?) in their marital bed, as evidenced by the errant panties. Jason was cruising with Mr. Garrison to visit other women. He was blatant about his cheating, which makes it even worse.

Jason couldn't be bothered to have the heating system, garage door or alarm fixed in the Birchleaf house, but he had plenty of time to contact MM 980 times in a month.

Jason was too busy or inept OR both, to be able to do a little yard work and watch a toddler without a brewski in one hand and a cell phone in the other.

Jason was spending their money to travel to Florida to do the hokeypokey with Michelle Money.

Jason thought no more of Michelle than to betray her, with a best friend. And please don't forget, Jason was telling Michelle Money AND his friends and that he loved her.

Michelle had started seeing a Therapist, do you wonder why?

And you determine from the SW, that the friend who said that she thought Michelle might be getting ready to divorce Jason, was just looking for her 15 minutes? Unbelievable. Sounds to me like she was paying attention. MOO

Even with all this being said, some still insist that they had a wonderful loving marriage? Makes you wonder what it would take to convince some people that a certain marriage is a bad one. Maybe they think Michelle should have stood by her man regardless of how she was treated. To be honest, some of these opinions seem to reflect more about the poster than the MY murder case. BUT, I won't even go there.:glare:

[Doorbell]

I noticed she said she thinks Michelle might have been getting a divorce. In other words she had no idea. Sounds like she just wanted her few minutes in the spot light. Wonder if this ever see a court room what she will say? She sounds a lot like Spivey. Its his opinion Jason killed Michelle he just has no evidence to that fact.

Just because we are not privy to the evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.

He cannot reveal in civil court the details of an ongoing criminal investigation.

[Doorbell]

You don't have to write pages about how bad their marriage was . I know it was a marriage made in hell. But Michelle wanted it and I just can't see her admitting defeat so easy. I wish we knew more about Jason's first love. The one he was engaged to when Michelle came along. I wonder in the one email if she was who Jason was talking about? Where he was saying they never got married. I think Michelle was making sure she had a new baby just so Jason wouldn't walk. She knew he married her because she was pregnant so common sense says he wouldn't be the type man to leave a pregnant wife. I can't in my wildest imagination see a woman get pregnant twice in such a short period of time by someone they were planning to divorce. Its been my experience when a marriage goes bad the woman/man doesn't want the other anywhere near them. No I don't think Michelle was planning on a divorce . I think she was making sure Jason wasn't either. IMO

A marriage can also go bad when a woman doesn't want her husband near her, and yet he insists. Sometimes (hypothetically, of course) women let their husbands near them even when they don't really want to, in order to keep the peace. Sometimes, even in this day and age, pregnancies happen despite birth control.

To say that Michelle wanted to keep the lying, cheating scoundrel stretches credulity, IMO. To be a single mother of two is much easier than being in a relationship that includes an adult-sized, bad-tempered child, as well as the little ones.

[5swab5]

(snipped)I know it was a marriage made in hell. But Michelle wanted it and I just can't see her admitting defeat so easy. I wish we knew more about Jason's first love. (snipped)

Michelle may have wanted the marriage, or not. You have no way of knowing that. Maybe she felt that she had to get married when she found out she was pregnant, that works both ways ya know. Besides, what Michelle wanted at the beginning and what she wanted after she saw Jason's true colors are not necessarily the same.

Admitting defeat, how much more could she have possibly endured? Jason was violent during their arguments, she and Cassidy were in potential danger. Jason had become a time bomb. He was pursuing everything that moved and was not averse to making a fool out of her. I do not think anyone is stupid enough to believe that Michelle would continue to be treated like a doormat and fear for her and Cassidy's lives forever.

As for Jason's first love, she is lucky...she is still alive. I hope she counts her blessings. MOO

[janesdeaan]

respectfully snipped (BSNBREVARDNC)

To be honest, some of these opinions seem to reflect more about the poster than the MY murder case. BUT, I won't even go there.


OMG This IS the POST OF THE DAY !! Or week, month even YEAR !!
You are absolutely correct with this !!:thumbsup:

[Tia]

Even with all this being said, some still insist that they had a wonderful loving marriage? Makes you wonder what it would take to convince some people that a certain marriage is a bad one. Maybe they think Michelle should have stood by her man regardless of how she was treated. To be honest, some of these opinions seem to reflect more about the poster than the MY murder case. BUT, I won't even go there.:glare:


Its possible. Some thought it was perfectly normal for Jason to have daily contact with MM.

[trucrime]

You don't have to write pages about how bad their marriage was . I know it was a marriage made in hell. But Michelle wanted it and I just can't see her admitting defeat so easy. I wish we knew more about Jason's first love. The one he was engaged to when Michelle came along. I wonder in the one email if she was who Jason was talking about? Where he was saying they never got married. I think Michelle was making sure she had a new baby just so Jason wouldn't walk. She knew he married her because she was pregnant so common sense says he wouldn't be the type man to leave a pregnant wife. I can't in my wildest imagination see a woman get pregnant twice in such a short period of time by someone they were planning to divorce. Its been my experience when a marriage goes bad the woman/man doesn't want the other anywhere near them. No I don't think Michelle was planning on a divorce . I think she was making sure Jason wasn't either. IMO

I dont think Jason was referring to his first love in that email, I think he was being deceptive towards the woman he was emailing behind Michelle's back by saying they never got married to begin with. Notice he doesnt mention Cassidy either. http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/03/11/4712929/March_10,_2009,_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young's_G oogle_account.pdf top of page 9

Also - people splitting up while pregnant is probably more common than you'd think but JMO. Here's some recent famous cases:
Billy Crudup left Mary-Louise Parker when she was pregnant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Crudup#Personal_life
Kelly Ruthford, filing for divorce while pregnant
http://www.tmz.com/2009/01/23/gossip-girl-saved-xoxo/
Didn't K-Fed also hook up wtih Britney while Char Jackson was pregnant with their youngest child?

Have you met Michelle, did you know her? Becuase I dont know how you could make assumptions about someone (like you did above) without knowing them personally but JMO.

[trucrime]

Its possible. Some thought it was perfectly normal for Jason to have daily contact with MM.

Its a shame he didnt devote as much positive/loving contact towards his wife Michelle. JMO.

[Cardinal]

But Michelle wanted it and I just can't see her admitting defeat so easy.

~snipped for emphasis and incredulity~



I didn't realize you knew Michelle or what she wanted. Did she confide in you that she wanted the marriage in the months prior to her death?

[gbmy]

Good to see you again. Do they play the blues in Brevard? It seems like more of a hillbilly type music place to me. With the river rafting, it reminds me a bit of Deliverance. Do you think Jason could get a job helping with the river rafting tours? He seems a bit tall and gangley to be a river rafter, but it's better than sitting around watching TV all summer.

There was a hint that the police are pushing him into a position where he may speak. Wouldn't that be unusual! If he would tell the police the name of the person that stained his deck, at least they have solid evidence against that person. That would move things towards a resolution.

Any thoughts on why Jason is protecting the guy that stained his deck?
The person who stained the deck isn't necessarily the murderer. And, Jason may not even know who stained it. It's not uncommon for my wife to hire a contractor while I'm travelling on business, busy working, etc. and I have no clue who it was.

[gbmy]

Of course police do know.

In a much earlier discussion, one poster said Jason CLEANED the deck in preparation to waterproof it.
Any idea why it took LE over a year to realize that a footprint in the deck even existed, let alone possibly relevant.

[gbmy]

my guess is that the new cops assigned to the case realized the deck was the most likely exit used by the killer and that the first cops forgot to examine it in Nov. 2006 just as they "forgot" to represent scale in the photograph of the bloody footprints in the bathroom.
Unbelievable. Since Jason and Michelle had just purchased that house a year before the murder, I wonder if LE had the sense to contact the prior owners to see a) if they stained the deck and b) what size shoe the person wore who stained it. If the answer to that question is no, then that would be another reason to just 'scratch your head'.

[Jester]

The person who stained the deck isn't necessarily the murderer. And, Jason may not even know who stained it. It's not uncommon for my wife to hire a contractor while I'm travelling on business, busy working, etc. and I have no clue who it was.

That sounds like an excuse ... but ... that aside ... regardless, can you think of a reason why Jason, knowing that the print on the deck matches (in size and pattern) the print in blood at the murder scene, doesn't tell the police what he knows about the deck stain, sealant, waterproofing? If Michelle made arrangements to have the deck sealed, stained, waterproofed, there would be a financial record. Is there any reason for Jason to withhold that information from the police?

[gbmy]

That sounds like an excuse ... but ... that aside ... regardless, can you think of a reason why Jason, knowing that the print on the deck matches (in size and pattern) the print in blood at the murder scene, doesn't tell the police what he knows about the deck stain, sealant, waterproofing? If Michelle made arrangements to have the deck sealed, stained, waterproofed, there would be a financial record. Is there any reason for Jason to withhold that information from the police?
You can say it sounds like an excuse.....especially since the written word is so subject to misinterpretation. That's just the nature of this form of communications.

I was offering up an explanation which isn't uncommon. Another probably even more common thing is that the prior owner stained the deck. In that case, Jason would really have no knowledge. Right?

Why doesn't he just tell them what he knows about who stained the deck? Well, that falls into the same category as him following the advice of his attorney and not talking......a very old topic where no new points can be brought up....only ones that have been recycled countless times.......And let's say it was the prior owner. JY's answer to that would be "I don't know who stained the deck". If he gave that answer would you say "Thank you very much" or would you be suspicious that he was lying? I sure do hope they would have contacted the prior owners. If not, then it would just be yet another botch up.

[Jester]

You can say it sounds like an excuse.....especially since the written word is so subject to misinterpretation. That's just the nature of this form of communications.

I was offering up an explanation which isn't uncommon. Another probably even more common thing is that the prior owner stained the deck. In that case, Jason would really have no knowledge. Right?

Why doesn't he just tell them what he knows about who stained the deck? Well, that falls into the same category as him following the advice of his attorney and not talking......a very old topic where no new points can be brought up....only ones that have been recycled countless times.......And let's say it was the prior owner. JY's answer to that would be "I don't know who stained the deck". If he gave that answer would you say "Thank you very much" or would you be suspicious that he was lying? I sure do hope they would have contacted the prior owners. If not, then it would just be yet another botch up.

It has been said, months ago, that Jason sealed. waterproofed, or stained the deck. In fact, the rumor is that he did this shortly before halloween 2006. This information was provided by someone that knows Jason.

However, it is possible that Michelle fixed up the deck while Jason was out with one of his girlfriends. She worked, looked after Cassidy, paid the bills, and managed pretty much everything else at the house while Jason was out of work, so it's possible that she chose to waterproof the deck rather than listen to Jason tell her he wants to kill her because she asked him to lift a finger to help. Jason knows why he bought sealant, he knows whether he used it, whether Michelle used it, or whether someone was hired to use it.

Since this information could point to a different slayer, he should say something. Did his lawyer really tell him not to tell the police what he knows about the person that stained the deck even if it could clear Jason's name and help solve the murder? I find that hard to believe.

[gbmy]

I doubt the deck needed staining when it was placed on the market by the previous owner. I also doubt LE thought to contact the previous owners.
Good point. As a part of getting the home 'market ready' I'd say the chances are very good that you are right. So, let me get this right. LE has a footprint they think is relevant to the crime. Some question why Jason won't tell them who stained the deck. Seems to me that my 6 year old son would think to ask the prior owners.

[gbmy]

It has been said, months ago, that Jason sealed. waterproofed, or stained the deck. In fact, the rumor is that he did this shortly before halloween 2006. This information was provided by someone that knows Jason.

However, it is possible that Michelle fixed up the deck while Jason was out with one of his girlfriends. She worked, looked after Cassidy, paid the bills, and managed pretty much everything else at the house while Jason was out of work, so it's possible that she chose to waterproof the deck rather than listen to Jason tell her he wants to kill her because she asked him to lift a finger to help. Jason knows why he bought sealant, he knows whether he used it, whether Michelle used it, or whether someone was hired to use it.

Since this information could point to a different slayer, he should say something. Did his lawyer really tell him not to tell the police what he knows about the person that stained the deck even if it could clear Jason's name and help solve the murder? I find that hard to believe.
Jester, I can't comment on your first paragraph cause it's rooted in rumor and speculation. Your 2nd paragraph is presumptious with lots of bad things said about Jason. And, your 3rd and final paragraph again simply touches on the much recycled topic of why he is not talking in general. There's really nothing else to say about your post without speculating on your speculation......If the prior owner stained the deck, Jason would truthfully say he didn't know who stained it. If Jason not talking explains why they are 2.5 years into an investigation without enough evidence to decide to arrest him, then they have bigger problems.

[trucrime]

That information wouldn't help solve the crime. I love how you constantly blame Jason for Spivey's inability to solve the case.

btw, LE hasn't said anything at all about the size of the print found on the deck.

It has been solved, they have a primary suspect. LE likely will be arresting Jason Young soon for the criminal aspect of this case. With the amount of evidence/testimony I suspect they have that we're not aware of, Im not worried they wont secure a conviction. JMO.

[5swab5]

Jester, I can't comment on your first paragraph cause it's rooted in rumor and speculation. Your 2nd paragraph is presumptious with lots of bad things said about Jason. And, your 3rd and final paragraph again simply touches on the much recycled topic of why he is not talking in general. There's really nothing else to say about your post without speculating on your speculation......If the prior owner stained the deck, Jason would truthfully say he didn't know who stained it. If Jason not talking explains why they are 2.5 years into an investigation without enough evidence to decide to arrest him, then they have bigger problems.

I see you are still limiting your posts to anybody but Jason. It is fine if you want to take that path, but is it necessary to be so nasty and condescending to other posters?

It is absolutely amazing that rumors that do not support Jason are dismissed out of hand, but rumors that do support Jason are taken as gospel.

Things are not looking too good for old Jason, I'm sorry there are lots of bad things to say about him, but such is the way with lying, philandering, short-tempered slayers.

Anyone that thinks that LE did not interview the former owners of BirchLeaf doesn't have a clue how cases get solved. AND, anyone who thinks that Jason would remain mute even with his Attorney's advice...if he were innocent...is only fooling themselves. In My Opinion!

[reborn]

I dont think Jason was referring to his first love in that email, I think he was being deceptive towards the woman he was emailing behind Michelle's back by saying they never got married to begin with. Notice he doesnt mention Cassidy either. http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/03/11/4712929/March_10,_2009,_search_warrant_for_Jason_Young's_G oogle_account.pdf top of page 9

Also - people splitting up while pregnant is probably more common than you'd think but JMO. Here's some recent famous cases:
Billy Crudup left Mary-Louise Parker when she was pregnant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Crudup#Personal_life
Kelly Ruthford, filing for divorce while pregnant
http://www.tmz.com/2009/01/23/gossip-girl-saved-xoxo/
Didn't K-Fed also hook up wtih Britney while Char Jackson was pregnant with their youngest child?

Have you met Michelle, did you know her? Becuase I dont know how you could make assumptions about someone (like you did above) without knowing them personally but JMO.


No I didn't know Michelle or Jason personally or any other way. Just my knowledge of human nature I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce.

[reborn]

It has been solved, they have a primary suspect. LE likely will be arresting Jason Young soon for the criminal aspect of this case. With the amount of evidence/testimony I suspect they have that we're not aware of, Im not worried they wont secure a conviction. JMO.


We are all waiting. And waiting. And waiting.

[5swab5]

No I didn't know Michelle or Jason personally or any other way. Just my knowledge of human nature I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce.

Sleeping in another room does not protect you against a determined man that is willing to bide his time and attack in the middle of the night. MOO

[Jester]

No I didn't know Michelle or Jason personally or any other way. Just my knowledge of human nature I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce.

How exactly does a woman deliberately get herself pregnant?

[5swab5]

A Franklin print two sizes too small, security video from the hotel, a child who showed no sign of being left alone, cell pings that place him precisely in the area he should have been in at that time, a witness who saw the house all lit up like a party, inconsistent statements made to police by Meredith Fisher, evasive answers on the 911 call by Meredith Fisher, Meredith Fisher dropping her quest for a psych exam and full custody before Jason had to respond all combine to be one huge obstacle to a successful prosecution of Jason Young and Jason's silence can't be blamed for any of it.

Your huge obstacle must be a mirage, as Spivey has sworn under oath that he believes that Jason not only murdered Michelle and Rylan, but the murders were premeditated. ALL the SWs bear out that his opinion, is indeed that of the WCSD. MOO

[Jester]

She engages in consensual sex and lies about her use of birth control.

Rhetorical. It is not possible to get one's self pregnant.

[5swab5]

A Franklin print two sizes too small, security video from the hotel, a child who showed no sign of being left alone, cell pings that place him precisely in the area he should have been in at that time, a witness who saw the house all lit up like a party, inconsistent statements made to police by Meredith Fisher, evasive answers on the 911 call by Meredith Fisher, Meredith Fisher dropping her quest for a psych exam and full custody before Jason had to respond all combine to be one huge obstacle to a successful prosecution of Jason Young and Jason's silence can't be blamed for any of it.

Whoop-Dee-Doo.

Jason was in certain places at certain times, Harrison told us that years ago. Jason was also unaccounted for, for about 8 hours, during which time his wife and unborn child were slaughtered and he hasn't TO THIS DAY even bothered to ask how the investigation into this heinous crime is going. Classic "consciousness of guilt". MOO

[reborn]

Sleeping in another room does not protect you against a determined man that is willing to bide his time and attack in the middle of the night. MOO


Are you saying Jason raped Michelle and thats how she became pregnant?

[dkny]

She engages in consensual sex and lies about her use of birth control.


Maybe she just wanted both her children to have the same father,
and be done with him. They had alot of changes in a short period, pregnancy, marriage, moving, loss of a baby, pregnant again, all the additional bills, JY changing jobs alot, they were both young, JY was obviously not marriage material at that point in his life. IMHO, no matter what way you look @ it everyone meant well going in, MY saw what she got involved with on top of everything else this immature "man" did and decided she did not want to live that way. She told JY this more than once I am sure. JY has abandonment issues from loosing his Father so young, he had alot of anger towards MY and he planned this murder, I think the car accident was a precursor( and collect the 2mill acc death clause) and when she did not die, he got angrier. I am glad CY is transitioning to MF, I think the arrest will come in August when CY is w/MF. JMOO.

[Doorbell]

No I didn't know Michelle or Jason personally or any other way. Just my knowledge of human nature I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce.

There is no form of birth control, except sleeping in the guest room, that is 100% effective. The fact that I have three children rather than the two I planned testifies to that. And sleeping in the guest room is sometimes not an option when one's husband is drunk and disorderly.

IMO

[Doorbell]

She engages in consensual sex and lies about her use of birth control.

I hope you are not implying that Michelle did this.

I hope this statement is hypothetical.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

She engages in consensual sex and lies about her use of birth control.

Oh, I guess this is blame the victim day.

Well.........see ya.:thumbdown:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Are you saying Jason raped Michelle and thats how she became pregnant?

What would ever make anyone think that Jason would do something like that?:wink:

[reborn]

What would ever make anyone think that Jason would do something like that?:wink:


I guess I was getting a little carried away. If he couldn't choke her to death he certainly wouldn't have the strength to rape her.

[5swab5]

I guess I was getting a little carried away. If he couldn't choke her to death he certainly wouldn't have the strength to rape her.

Anyone that has the stomach to bludgeon (30+contacts) his pregnant wife about the head until dead, leaving one of the bloodiest crime scenes that seasoned investigators have ever seen...is capable of anything.

A man lying on top of a woman and holding her down is not even remotely similar to him trying to put his hands about her throat and choke the life out of her. MOO

[Jester]

I guess I was getting a little carried away. If he couldn't choke her to death he certainly wouldn't have the strength to rape her.

I'm speechless.

Michelle had marks on her neck indicating that someone grabbed her neck, and left a bruise on one side of her neck. She did not have any other injuries consistent with strangulation. She was not strangled. She was beaten to death. She was hit in the head 10-20 times. She had defensive wounds. This was not a soft kill. A soft kill does not result in someone's teeth being knocked out of their mouth. He had a weapon ready, in hand, for the attack, and he used it. There is no indication that the intended method for murder was strangulation. If that were the case, he would have brought a weapon for strangulation, not blunt force trauma.

He was quite capable of beating her to death and, subsequently, quite capable of doing any lesser harm.

[Jester]

Maybe she just wanted both her children to have the same father,
and be done with him. They had alot of changes in a short period, pregnancy, marriage, moving, loss of a baby, pregnant again, all the additional bills, JY changing jobs alot, they were both young, JY was obviously not marriage material at that point in his life. IMHO, no matter what way you look @ it everyone meant well going in, MY saw what she got involved with on top of everything else this immature "man" did and decided she did not want to live that way. She told JY this more than once I am sure. JY has abandonment issues from loosing his Father so young, he had alot of anger towards MY and he planned this murder, I think the car accident was a precursor( and collect the 2mill acc death clause) and when she did not die, he got angrier. I am glad CY is transitioning to MF, I think the arrest will come in August when CY is w/MF. JMOO.

Jason could have felt relief with the loss of the baby after the car accident. He may have lightened up a bit, and been the charming husband again. After Michelle was pregnant with Rylan, he may have switched back to his abusive persona. Abusive men are not abusive all the time, they cycle through abuse and honeymoon phase. After any type of abuse, even adultery, they play the honeymoon card to smooth things over.

I don't think Michelle's pregnancy with Rylan requires any special explanation. Michelle and Jason were in, what I would describe, a type of love-hate relationship. They were most likely quite passionate on both ends of the spectrum. They could have outrageous arguments, and probably be quite forgiving and accepting after the fact. I think Jason felt relief after the car accident, but then the stress remounted with another pregnancy. This probably resulted in increased, flagrant offensiveness towards Michelle. He discussed his disdain for his wife with friends, and everyone seems to have turned a blind eye. This would have encouraged Jason to pursue increasingly inappropriate behavior. Ultimately, I think you are right and, after the accident, Jason did fantasize about the insurance money and freedom to the extent that he acted on his fantasy.

It's unfortunate that no one of Jason's family, friends, or girlfriends confronted him with the inappropriateness of his comments or actions.

[Jester]

For the record, Michelle did not "deliberately get herself pregnant."

Jason willingly and deliberately got her pregnant. Let's keep the responsibility for the pregnancy where it belongs. Until such time that there is immaculate conception, there is no justification for suggesting that any woman got herself pregnant.

[Leanne Weich]

There is no form of birth control, except sleeping in the guest room, that is 100% effective. The fact that I have three children rather than the two I planned testifies to that. And sleeping in the guest room is sometimes not an option when one's husband is drunk and disorderly.

IMO

Oh boy Door, can I relate to this? I'd been sleeping in the guest room for a month prior to leaving my first husband and found out 2 weeks after leaving I was pregnant with my second child.

[reborn]

For the record, Michelle did not "deliberately get herself pregnant."

Jason willingly and deliberately got her pregnant. Let's keep the responsibility for the pregnancy where it belongs. Until such time that there is immaculate conception, there is no justification for suggesting that any woman got herself pregnant.

Anybody with half a brain knows it takes two to have a baby. My comments were that I couldn't see Michelle planning a divorce and then getting pregnant. I though everyone was saying Jason was the one that looked all that stuff up on the computer. Do you think Michelle looked up divorce? I just assumed it was Jason.

[5swab5]

Anybody with half a brain knows it takes two to have a baby. My comments were that I couldn't see Michelle planning a divorce and then getting pregnant. I though everyone was saying Jason was the one that looked all that stuff up on the computer. Do you think Michelle looked up divorce? I just assumed it was Jason.


Ya just never know. Scott Peterson didn't start planning to murder Laci until she got pregnant. One could argue that Cassidy was already there and Jason was attached to her, but considering that he has essentially given her to Meredith, I don't think that holds water.

What with the adult meds and his actions of late,I will always believe she was supposed to die too. MOO

[Barbara2]

Anybody with half a brain knows it takes two to have a baby. My comments were that I couldn't see Michelle planning a divorce and then getting pregnant. I though everyone was saying Jason was the one that looked all that stuff up on the computer. Do you think Michelle looked up divorce? I just assumed it was Jason.

It does take two, but I've never heard of a man being forced to have sex against his will. There are many cases of women getting pregnant being forced into the act by a man. Those women were not willing participants. IMO

[Jester]

Anybody with half a brain knows it takes two to have a baby. My comments were that I couldn't see Michelle planning a divorce and then getting pregnant. I though everyone was saying Jason was the one that looked all that stuff up on the computer. Do you think Michelle looked up divorce? I just assumed it was Jason.

Michelle planning a divorce and then adding to the family? Michelle deliberately getting herself pregnant? I don't think so. Michelle was a very intelligent, organized woman. Planning a divorce and then planning a pregnancy sounds like a foolish, disorganized thought process.

I have no idea who looked up divorce on the computer. Jason certainly appeared to be the spouse with serious problems respecting the marriage, so I'd put my money on him. Jason also appears to be the spouse that didn't know what he wanted. He had a pregnant wife and two girlfriends that we know of, job instability, didn't seem to know whether he wanted more children or even a wife. One month he planning more children with his wife, four months later he's talking about having children with a girlfriend. If anyone planned a divorce and then planned more children, it was most likely Jason.

[Jules2]

It is possible for a woman to get pregnant without the man's knowledge or consent.


Any man who engages in sex should be "knowledgeable" when it comes to the fact that he could become a daddy. Please don't lay the blame on the victim here by insinuating that she "intended" to get pregnant whether her husband consented or not.

Michelle AND her unborn child lost their lives even if Jason didn't want any more children. It doesn't lessen Jason's responsibilities, in fact, it makes him a murderer of two lives not just one, no matter if that child was planned or not.

This is of course, if Jason is responsible for his wife's death, and I believe he is. But that's just my opinion.

[Doorbell]

It is possible for a woman to get pregnant without the man's knowledge or consent.

I hope this is hypothetical. I hope you are not implying that Michelle did this.

[frances1]

What is a Sticky, and why is this thread called that?

[Jester]

It is possible for a woman to get pregnant without the man's knowledge or consent.

It is possible that a woman is pregnant without the father's knowledge. It is not, however, possible for a woman to get pregnant without a man's knowledge and consent. A man would have to be unconscious to not have knowledge (and that doesn't work) and men that aren't consenting to having children are well aware of the precautions they need to take.

[Jester]

You don't know the circumstances of any of Michelle's pregnancies. There are women who do choose to become pregnant because they desire motherhood.

Michelle and Jason were married and, by all appearances, it was their (joint, mutual decision) intention to have a family. What is your point?

[Barbara2]

You don't know the circumstances of any of Michelle's pregnancies. There are women who do choose to become pregnant because they desire motherhood.

And there are men who choose to kill their pregnant wives. What do you think the evidence will show is the most likely to be true of the two choices?

[reborn]

What is a Sticky, and why is this thread called that?

I think it means that the thread can be moved to the MY forum when it reaches a certain number of posts. MY forum was locked a long time ago because of so much fussing.

[Barbara2]

I think it means that the thread can be moved to the MY forum when it reaches a certain number of posts. MY forum was locked a long time ago because of so much fussing.

It means that it stays on the top no matter what is posted on other threads below it.

[gbmy]

[QUOTE=5swab5;13015273]I see you are still limiting your posts to anybody but Jason. It is fine if you want to take that path, but is it necessary to be so nasty and condescending to other posters?
<snipped>

QUOTE]
That was not my intent. I read and re-read my post and didn't see where I said anything nasty. If the poster whom I responded to took it that way, please accept my deepest apologies.

[gbmy]

Sleeping in another room does not protect you against a determined man that is willing to bide his time and attack in the middle of the night. MOO
reborn said: "I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce."

You replied: Sleeping in another room does not protect you against a determined man that is willing to bide his time and attack in the middle of the night.

What did you mean by this with respect to the point reborn was making?

[Barbara2]

reborn said: "I can't See a woman deliberately getting herself pregnant if she were planning a divorce. It would be the easiest thing in the world to keep from having another child. She could have gone to any plan parenthood and gotten a shot or pills and Jason would never have been the wiser. She also could have slept in the guest room. I just don't see her plan for a divorce."

You replied: Sleeping in another room does not protect you against a determined man that is willing to bide his time and attack in the middle of the night.

What did you mean by this with respect to the point reborn was making?

It means that it doesn't take a lot of force for a husband to take his wife even if she is not a willing participant. IMO

[gbmy]

Your huge obstacle must be a mirage, as Spivey has sworn under oath that he believes that Jason not only murdered Michelle and Rylan, but the murders were premeditated. ALL the SWs bear out that his opinion, is indeed that of the WCSD. MOO
Spivey 'believes' Jason committed premeditated murder. All the SWs bear out his 'opinion'. Det. Spivey is entitled to his beliefs and opinions. A jury of 12 will decide on guilt or innocence. 2.5 years later we all wait for Spivey's beliefs and the DA's assessment of the evidence to result in an arrest.

[gbmy]

It means that it doesn't take a lot of force for a husband to take his wife even if she is not a willing participant. IMO
Ok......so, not a willing particpant equates to rape. I understand the point now.

[5swab5]

Spivey 'believes' Jason committed premeditated murder. All the SWs bear out his 'opinion'. Det. Spivey is entitled to his beliefs and opinions. A jury of 12 will decide on guilt or innocence. 2.5 years later we all wait for Spivey's beliefs and the DA's assessment of the evidence to result in an arrest.

You say Spivey "believes"...He has given sworn testimony in a Court of Law, that implies to me that he is willing to stick his neck out and put his reputation on the line...more significant...than just "believes". You are not suggesting that all the SWs were sworn out by Spivey without the approval of the WCSD, didn't think so. I can assure you Spivey isn't the only one in the Department or in the County that is convinced Jason is the slayer. Hopefully 12 of his peers will soon be able to put the finishing touches on this complete catastrophe.

The slayer has had enough of a reprieve. Time to do a little Jail Time. MOO

[reborn]

Spivey 'believes' Jason committed premeditated murder. All the SWs bear out his 'opinion'. Det. Spivey is entitled to his beliefs and opinions. A jury of 12 will decide on guilt or innocence. 2.5 years later we all wait for Spivey's beliefs and the DA's assessment of the evidence to result in an arrest.

Could you elaborate on how the warrants bear out his opinion? I haven't see where there was any blood in Jason's car or on his clothing. I haven't seen where they have found any of the missing items in his possession. I haven't see where they have any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in. I haven't seen where they have proved he bought extra gas. Just a play on words where their usage didn't match his. I haven't seen where Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe. I did see where he had an affair and was sometimes cross with Michelle. Do you think that equals pre med murder?

[Doorbell]

Could you elaborate on how the warrants bear out his opinion? I haven't see where there was any blood in Jason's car or on his clothing. I haven't seen where they have found any of the missing items in his possession. I haven't see where they have any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in. I haven't seen where they have proved he bought extra gas. Just a play on words where their usage didn't match his. I haven't seen where Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe. I did see where he had an affair and was sometimes cross with Michelle. Do you think that equals pre med murder?

It is significant that they did not find the missing items in his possession--specifically the Hush Puppies and the dark shirt.

A circumstantial case. Many small pieces of evidence will add up to a conviction. The DA is not going to move until he is sure he has everything he can get. No statute of limitations, remember?

[5swab5]

I just saw a very interesting episode of Forensic Files.

The original air date was July 25th 2008. Title: "In the Bag"

On 3/27/2003 in Ohio, Gregg Myers shot his father, Jack Myers, and his stepmother Linda Myers in the head while they slept. He was having financial troubles and wanted to inherit his father's farmhouse.

Nothing like the Young case you say? Not so fast. In order to cover up the crime, he bought and wore shoes that were...wait for it...TWO sizes smaller than the size he normally wore and he made sure to leave those prints at the scene too. Ta Da!

MOO

[gbmy]

You say Spivey "believes
<snipped>

Let's be clear on who the 'you' is in your statement above. I'll just quote verbatim the words from your post.

"Your huge obstacle must be a mirage, as Spivey has sworn under oath that he believes that Jason not only murdered Michelle and Rylan, but the murders were premeditated. ALL the SWs bear out that his opinion is indeed that of the WCSD."

[gbmy]

Could you elaborate on how the warrants bear out his opinion? I haven't see where there was any blood in Jason's car or on his clothing. I haven't seen where they have found any of the missing items in his possession. I haven't see where they have any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in. I haven't seen where they have proved he bought extra gas. Just a play on words where their usage didn't match his. I haven't seen where Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe. I did see where he had an affair and was sometimes cross with Michelle. Do you think that equals pre med murder?
reborn, excellent post........If someone can provide a link to the answers to any of your questions, then great. Else, based on factual information in the public domain, which is what we can base our beliefs/opinions on, you are spot on. Now, if one wants to 'assume' they know certain things and then make assumptions and speculations on top of those assumptions, then a candid discussion becomes difficult.

[gbmy]

It is significant that they did not find the missing items in his possession--specifically the Hush Puppies and the dark shirt.

A circumstantial case. Many small pieces of evidence will add up to a conviction. The DA is not going to move until he is sure he has everything he can get. No statute of limitations, remember?
Right.......and in the year 2050 when Jason is in his 80s and Linda Fisher is older (and hopefully still around) and in the absence of any new information and Jason still legally innocent, you'd be able to make the exact same statement wouldn't you?

[5swab5]

reborn, excellent post........If someone can provide a link to the answers to any of your questions, then great. Else, based on factual information in the public domain, which is what we can base our beliefs/opinions on, you are spot on. Now, if one wants to 'assume' they know certain things and then make assumptions and speculations on top of those assumptions, then a candid discussion becomes difficult.

Must get tedious. Defending the indefensible. Defending a man that doesn't care at all about the murder of his wife and unborn child. Defending a man that has essentially given away his surviving child. Defending a man that would allow a 15½ million dollar judgment against himself. Defending a man that would send his SIL to the house to discover the body and thereby put undue suspicion on her.

Jason has eight unexplained hours, during which time his wife and child were brutally murdered, the only one who doesn't seem to care at all, is the one that should care the most. Funny that he has allowed his silence to further destroy his life. A person would have to live in a the clouds not to see something wrong with that scenario.

If Jason had the clothing, he would be screaming it from the rooftops.

If someone else's foot prints were on that deck, Jason would be screaming it from the rooftops.

Something is wrong when someone applauds a post that says Jason was sometimes cross with Michelle and yet ignores that facts that he treated her like a dog, he punched holes in walls, ripped a door down, fought for hours in public with her and told her he could kill her, oops, she IS dead. MOO

[5swab5]

Right.......and in the year 2050 when Jason is in his 80s and Linda Fisher is older (and hopefully still around) and in the absence of any new information and Jason still legally innocent, you'd be able to make the exact same statement wouldn't you?

Never gonna happen. Jason will be brought to trial and Jason will be found guilty. Whether or not he decides to bankrupt his family or take an easier way out is yet to be seen. You seem to have a fixation with the time that has passed and the time that might pass before an arrest. I have to wonder what you would be saying if Jason had been arrested on Nov. 3rd, 2006. Rush To Judgment? Of course you would. Jason can do no wrong. MOO

[Cardinal]

~snipped~

Now, if one wants to 'assume' they know certain things and then make assumptions and speculations on top of those assumptions, then a candid discussion becomes difficult.

Actually, I agree with that statement. That is exactly the problem I have with reborn's "case" against Meredith.

So tell me, gbmy, based upon the factual information in the public domain, who do you believe killed Michelle?

[gbmy]

Never gonna happen. Jason will be brought to trial and Jason will be found guilty. Whether or not he decides to bankrupt his family or take an easier way out is yet to be seen. You seem to have a fixation with the time that has passed and the time that might pass before an arrest. I have to wonder what you would be saying if Jason had been arrested on Nov. 3rd, 2006. Rush To Judgment? Of course you would. Jason can do no wrong. MOO
I wouldn't say rush to judgement if the evidence was compelling. Fixation is your choice of words. I simply posed a 'what if' question. You chose to not answer it but rather regurgitate a list of opinions. reborn's questions were real, good ones. Again, you provided no answers but only your opinions about what Jason's silence means.

If he's innocent, then his 8 hours of unaccounted time is the same as mine was that night.....in bed sleeping with the rest of the people living in the eastern time zone. Most of the things you rattled off are assumptions you're making about what his silence might mean. The questions reborn asked were the type of questions that would be asked in a court of law.....Real information that is needed to find him guilty. You can only 'assume' Det. Spivey has this information. But, for purposes of discussion on this board, we can only treat facts known to us as facts..... things unknown to us by definition aren't facts to us.
So, think about each of your posts.....the point you're trying to make and which category the basis of your points fall under.

[gbmy]

Actually, I agree with that statement. That is exactly the problem I have with reborn's "case" against Meredith.

So tell me, gbmy, based upon the factual information in the public domain, who do you believe killed Michelle?
First and foremost, I've never hinted or even thought about Meredith being involved in any way shape or form. I'm always saddened by anyone who even remotely things this. Who do I think did it? Well, if I had a name in mind, it certainly wouldn't be appropriate to express it on a public board. I think the right answer is silence and if you suspect I might know, then you should trust that I would have expressed it to the appropriate authorities.

[5swab5]

I wouldn't say rush to judgement if the evidence was compelling. Fixation is your choice of words. I simply posed a 'what if' question. You chose to not answer it but rather regurgitate a list of opinions. reborn's questions were real, good ones. Again, you provided no answers but only your opinions about what Jason's silence means.

If he's innocent, then his 8 hours of unaccounted time is the same as mine was that night.....in bed sleeping with the rest of the people living in the eastern time zone. Most of the things you rattled off are assumptions you're making about what his silence might mean. The questions reborn asked were the type of questions that would be asked in a court of law.....Real information that is needed to find him guilty. You can only 'assume' Det. Spivey has this information. But, for purposes of discussion on this board, we can only treat facts known to us as facts..... things unknown to us by definition aren't facts to us.
So, think about each of your posts.....the point you're trying to make and which category the basis of your points fall under.

Your threshold for "facts" is skewed by your association with Jason. Rumor after rumor has been proven to be true. What you choose to rely on as fact is entirely different from the standard that unbiased jurors will use.
Jason's involvement is irrefutable. He is already a slayer in the eyes of the court and he is destined to live out his miserable life in prison as a wife and baby killer. MOO

[Barbara2]

The questions reborn asked were the type of questions that would be asked in a court of law.....

reborn's questions were asked of you based on this post:

Spivey 'believes' Jason committed premeditated murder. All the SWs bear out his 'opinion'. Det. Spivey is entitled to his beliefs and opinions. A jury of 12 will decide on guilt or innocence. 2.5 years later we all wait for Spivey's beliefs and the DA's assessment of the evidence to result in an arrest.

[gbmy]

Your threshold for "facts" is skewed by your association with Jason. Rumor after rumor has been proven to be true. What you choose to rely on as fact is entirely different from the standard that unbiased jurors will use.
Jason's involvement is irrefutable. He is already a slayer in the eyes of the court and he is destined to live out his miserable life in prison as a wife and baby killer. MOO
So, let's circle back to reborn's questions.

Is there any information in the public domain that would yield a 'yes' answer to any of these questions that does not hinge on speculative assumptions? Your choice on how many words you choose to answer this question but I only see 3 possible answers. 1. Yes, and here's the direct proof. 2. "No" 3. Or 3. "No, but.......etc. etc.

Which is it? category #1? #2? Or, #3?

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing?
Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession?
Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in?
Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas?
Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe?

I have seen lots of proof that he was an adulterous husband. I have seen lots of proof that he is exercising his legal right to remain silent.

[gbmy]

reborn's questions were asked of you based on this post:
Ok Barbara2, then you can answer the yes/no question(s) I posted in a subsequent thread vs. a general one line answer based on a detective's opinion/beliefs. In other words, the questions reborn ask require the information Det. Spivey is using to base his beliefs/opinions on. 'Assuming' that he 'just must' have information that we don't to clearly support his beliefs does not fall into the category of discussion based on information that's in the public domain........If you want to have a discussion at that more indirect level, then that's fine. But, let's call it what it is.

[5swab5]

So, let's circle back to reborn's questions.

Is there any information in the public domain that would yield a 'yes' answer to any of these questions that does not hinge on speculative assumptions? Your choice on how many words you choose to answer this question but I only see 3 possible answers. 1. Yes, and here's the direct proof. 2. "No" 3. Or 3. "No, but.......etc. etc.

Which is it? category #1? #2? Or, #3?

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing?
Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession?
Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in?
Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas?
Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe?

I have seen lots of proof that he was an adulterous husband. I have seen lots of proof that he is exercising his legal right to remain silent.

An exercise in futility, but here goes:

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing? Why would there be? There is plenty of evidence that Jason not only showered, but cleaned up Cassidy as well. What other person on God's green earth would have the nerve to do such a thing after committing such a crime in another's house?

Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession? WHAT missing items? The things that Jason's mother claimed were missing seven months after the fact? $500.00 in a new wallet...hidden in his closet? They had 7 months and that was the best they could come up with? You don't think LE knows the difference between a staged robbery and a real one?

Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in? And your point would be? He was heading for an exit and NEVER used his keycard but one time, right after checking into the hotel.

Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas? Ever heard of cash? No fuss, no muss, no record.

Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe? Jason did not have to buy them, he was a gym rat, he could have picked them up anywhere.

MOO

[Barbara2]

Ok Barbara2, then you can answer the yes/no question(s) I posted in a subsequent thread vs. a general one line answer based on a detective's opinion/beliefs. In other words, the questions reborn ask require the information Det. Spivey is using to base his beliefs/opinions on. 'Assuming' that he 'just must' have information that we don't to clearly support his beliefs does not fall into the category of discussion based on information that's in the public domain........If you want to have a discussion at that more indirect level, then that's fine. But, let's call it what it is.

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing? No, irrelevant if he showered, changed and got rid of the bloody clothing. It may never be found.

Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession? No. That's the point. The shirt he was seen wearing when headed for the exit door is no longer in his possession. (She answer above)

Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in? No, not yet anyway.

Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas? Yes

Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe? No, not yet anyway.

Questions you left out:
Have you seen proof that Jason hated his wife enough to kill her? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason sent his SIL to his house that day on an out of the ordinary mission? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to drug his daughter? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to kill his wife? Yes

I'm sure there are more questions. Others will help me out here, I'm sure.

[gbmy]

An exercise in futility, but here goes:

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing? Why would there be? There is plenty of evidence that Jason not only showered, but cleaned up Cassidy as well. What other person on God's green earth would have the nerve to do such a thing after committing such a crime in another's house?

Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession? WHAT missing items? The things that Jason's mother claimed were missing seven months after the fact? $500.00 in a new wallet...hidden in his closet? They had 7 months and that was the best they could come up with? You don't think LE knows the difference between a staged robbery and a real one?

Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in? And your point would be? He was heading for an exit and NEVER used his keycard but one time, right after checking into the hotel.

Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas? Ever heard of cash? No fuss, no muss, no record.

Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe? Jason did not have to buy them, he was a gym rat, he could have picked them up anywhere.

MOO
Ok, those are fair responses and what I expected.....They fall into category #2.....which is "no, but"

[gbmy]

Have you seen proof that there was his or Michelle's blood in Jason's car or on his clothing? No, irrelevant if he showered, changed and got rid of the bloody clothing. It may never be found.

Have you seen proof that any of the missing items were found to be in his possession? No. That's the point. The shirt he was seen wearing when headed for the exit door is no longer in his possession. (She answer above)

Have you seen any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in? No, not yet anyway.

Have you seen proof that he purchased extra gas? Yes

Have you seen proof of whether Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe? No, not yet anyway.

Questions you left out:
Have you seen proof that Jason hated his wife enough to kill her? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason sent his SIL to his house that day on an out of the ordinary mission? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to drug his daughter? Yes
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to kill his wife? Yes

I'm sure there are more questions. Others will help me out here, I'm sure.
Barbara2, first of all, I admire you answering the questions directly and honestly. And, I like the fact that you offered up additional questions. Here's how I'd answer yours.

Have you seen proof that Jason hated his wife enough to kill her? No But, he certainly committed the grave sin of adultery....worse yet, he repeatedly did this.....this is reprehensible. Thing is here, if I'm sitting on a jury, based on other info in the public domain now, I don't see any other direct evidence of *hatred* and the ultimate act of murder.....Sure, you have 'statements' such as "oh, I could have killed her.....or whatever he said", but I can honestly say that my wife has said that several times and she wouldn't hurt a flee.

Have you seen evidence he purchased gas? No.....only speculative CE which is far too subjective. Having him on video handing a cashier cash, finding a cash receipt, or a credit card receipt....that would be true, compelling evidence.
Have you seen evidence that Jason sent his SIL to his house that day on an out of the ordinary mission? Yes I agree. This still bugs me and shakes my belief in his innocence.
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to drug his daughter? YesI agree, but again, this would be true of any married spouse in his line of business.
Have you seen evidence that Jason had the means, motive and opportunity to kill his wife? YesThis is too broad of a question because it relies on too many specific questions underlying proving means, motive, and oppty. Once they prove this, he's arrested.

[Barbara2]

I just can't understand the acceptance of a spouse telling the one they love that they could kill them. If it's a joke, maybe. In anger? I don't see any justification and I find it hard to believe that someone who couldn't hurt a flea would even think those words much less say them unless it was in jest.

[Jules2]

I just can't understand the acceptance of a spouse telling the one they love that they could kill them. If it's a joke, maybe. In anger? I don't see any justification and I find it hard to believe that someone who couldn't hurt a flea would even think those words much less say them unless it was in jest.


And from the tone of the entire message, it is obvious he wasn't joking around. I find his email to Michelle rather disturbing. Poor Jason! He was so inconvenienced because of his responsibilities as a husband and father. Heaven forbid he should have to watch his daughter while having to do yard work at the same time. I guess his solution was to drink some beer, hang out by the pool and tell his wife that he could kill her for throwing a monkey wrench in to his plans.


"I am taking beer and her to pool. I am in a mood that makes our trip to myrtle [sic] seem mild, pray the beer kicks in," "I could kill u [sic] for not letting me finish the yard work this morning."


And there are some who question Meredith's choice of words during the 911 call?

Unbelievable!

IMO

[reborn]

Ok, those are fair responses and what I expected.....They fall into category #2.....which is "no, but"

You are so right. No ,but won't wash in a court of law. Speaking of washing I wonder where all the evidence is that Jason or anyone for that matter took a shower? Were there towels left behind? If so were those towels tested for DNA? Seems like everything said adds another question to be answered.

[janesdeaan]

Could you elaborate on how the warrants bear out his opinion? I haven't see where there was any blood in Jason's car or on his clothing. I haven't seen where they have found any of the missing items in his possession. I haven't see where they have any photo or video other than the one of him in the motel he was suppose to be in. I haven't seen where they have proved he bought extra gas. Just a play on words where their usage didn't match his. I haven't seen where Jason ever bought or owned a size 10 shoe. I did see where he had an affair and was sometimes cross with Michelle. Do you think that equals pre med murder?

Well, of course you haven't seen those things, you've seen applications for search warrants, the same as the rest of us. Yet some of those things you say you believe and some you don't. Funny... Here's the added, extra fact (tiresome as it is to repeat yet again) the lead detective that has been investigating this case for 2+ years stated under oath that he believes Jason Young is the killer. There is the edge, IMO, someone who HAS SEEN ALL the evidence to date made that statement in court, under oath in a case filed against Jason Young, which resulted in Jason Young being named SLAYER of Michelle Young...thanks

[janesdeaan]

And, may I just add to that, you have seen NONE of these things or anything like them that points to Meredith as the killer, yet, you constantly accuse her of just that. Your reasoning doesn't quite add up for me

[trucrime]

<snipped>
Have you seen proof that Jason hated his wife enough to kill her?


I feel Ive seen enough. Between the "I could kill u" on the email which also had a total lack of regard/affection towards Cassidy PLUS the affairs PLUS the friends alleged testimony in the released SW's about their alleged fighting... plus what we may not know yet, I think there's plenty to lead to a motive. Also Alan Fisher's set up at their home, where Jason didnt go over to the memorial for Michelle in the corner, very telling. IMO.

[5swab5]

Where is your proof Jason didn't want his children? He wasn't forced to marry Michelle. By all accounts, he loves his daughter. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he didn't also love his son.

I would say in the Child Custody Consent Order signed on Feb.6th 2009giving PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy, Jason makes it perfectly clear what he thinks of his daughter and it isn't even close to love. Cassidy is a bargaining chip, pure and simple. MOO

[5swab5]

Barbara2, you don't know for fact that the shirt in the video and the shoes have not been accounted for by LE.

It is not known for a fact that Jason had the opportunity to drug his daughter that specific night.

It is not known for a fact that there is any evidence at all that Jason left the hotel and thus had the opportunity to kill his wife and son.

The SWs plainly state that the shirt was not in Jason's car when he returned to Raleigh, that his mother said he did not remove anything from his vehicle in Brevard. Where is the shirt? It didn't just get up and walk away all by itself.

It was even included in later SWs, looking for it at Pat and Heather's houses and Jason's storage shed. I'll go with the SWs instead of your spin, thanks. MOO

[Doorbell]

The email was sent to Michelle six months before her death. She apparently accepted it.

I thought that email dated from the middle of July.

[Doorbell]

Where is your proof Jason didn't want his children? He wasn't forced to marry Michelle. By all accounts, he loves his daughter. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he didn't also love his son.
Referring to a potty accident by a two-year-old as, "she pi$$ed herself all over the floor" doesn't sound like love to me. It sounds cold and uncaring.

Also, when Michelle asked him who was picking up Cassidy, he answered "I don't care who gets her." That doesn't sound very loving, either.

IMO

[Doorbell]

Meredith's own words have lead to the discussion that she was somehow involved.

If that were the case, why would Jason let her have primary custody of Cassidy?

[Doorbell]

No, the search warrants do not plainly state that the shirt was not in Jason's car when he returned to Raleigh. That's just more of YOUR spin.

Where's your proof that LE doesn't NOW know the whereabouts of the shirt or shoes?

I'll go with the fact Jason hasn't been arrested as proof the shirt/shoes are NOW a non-issue, thanks.


And I will go with the fact that meredith has not been arrested as proof that the keys and the 911 call are NOW a non-issue.

Thanks.

[gbmy]

I just can't understand the acceptance of a spouse telling the one they love that they could kill them. If it's a joke, maybe. In anger? I don't see any justification and I find it hard to believe that someone who couldn't hurt a flea would even think those words much less say them unless it was in jest.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that my wife has said this several times. We've been married 25 years and very happily I might add. Just goes to show you that we are all very different. What you find hard to believe is very factual for others.

[Doorbell]

If Michelle thought her husband was "cold and uncaring" why did she continue to live with him and want to have additional children with him?

Maybe she thought she could "fix" him. Many otherwise intelligent women have made that mistake.

[Doorbell]

You'll have to ask Jason.

Do you not think it might have been to avoid the psych eval and/or other questions?

[gbmy]

<snipped>
the lead detective that has been investigating this case for 2+ years stated under oath that he believes Jason Young is the killer. There is the edge, IMO, someone who HAS SEEN ALL the evidence to date made that statement in court, under oath in a case filed against Jason Young, which resulted in Jason Young being named SLAYER of Michelle Young...thanks
So, he stated his 'belief' under oath. Beliefs are not facts. And, it was clearly stated that the civil suit judgement had absolutely nothing to do with Jason's guilt or innocence in committing murder.