Boy takes Plea deal

[wolfi_2]

Boy takes Plea deal, new thread.

[Columbo]

Boy takes Plea deal, new thread.

How on earth can an 8 year old child sign on a plea deal when he was found incompetent? Oh, I know, the same way he was coerced into confessing! :rolleyes:

definition coerce: to make somebody do something against his/her will by using force or threats.

hmmm.

[Jay]

I think it has far less to do with coercion...and more with REALITY. IMO The kid knows he's guilty and didn't want to face the likelihood of adult prison.


You can't house a juvenile in an adult prison.

I don't know the exact details of the plea bargain, but even without one, even if convicted, it is very unlikely that state's law permit him to be incarcerated past his 18th or 21st birthday.

If so, from 18 until 21, yes he can do time in an adult prison.

[GentleBreeze]

You can't house a juvenile in an adult prison.

I don't know the exact details of the plea bargain, but even without one, even if convicted, it is very unlikely that state's law permit him to be incarcerated past his 18th or 21st birthday.

If so, from 18 until 21, yes he can do time in an adult prison.

Jay, I think Linda was meaning if the count one charge had been dismissed. If Judge Roca had ruled in the State's favor then the boy could be tried as an adult later on. I believe at the age of 15 for the murder of his father.

The Appellate Court said Judge Roca could go ahead and rule on the State's motion to dismiss count one before the official competency hearing was held and he did always set up the motion to dismiss before the competency hearing dates.

Imo, that was a chance the boy nor his attorneys were never going to take.

I think both sides worried for their own reasons about what Judge Roca would do. He never let either of them have the slightest clue how he was going to rule, so therefore, a plea deal was much better for the boy and it was better to get a token of justice than nothing at all for a very violent horrible crime.

The biggest benefactor to the boy turned out to be his young age when double homicides are unheard of at this age......

imo

[Pena64]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.

[sdn8tv]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people People are me and I can support my statements with documented facts. What about you? are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it. Why do you seem to have a problem with factual information being brought out? Because it doesn't support your theory?
If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. I've talked to Romero's who don't think he acted ALONE. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. Can you support this with facts or is this just your opinion? I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.

I posted nothing but facts. Not ONE TIME did I post where they did it or even IMPLIED they did it. Can you please find that post.

P.S. the only print were on single print on the box of bullets. Not the ones that Nicole asked a male friend to buy the week prior though.

How was the benefit dinner? I hope it was a success.

[sdn8tv]

The posts on here are too funny. There was nothing funny about my posts.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.
Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.

I agree 100% and too bad he had incompetent counsel and too bad he wasn't able to have his competency hearing heard before he was "convinced" to plead guilty.

[sdn8tv]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.

Once again, back to snarky comments. IMHO, we actually had some interesting debates going until you and Linda came out of hiding and then have to start getting nasty again...go figure. Some people just love to fight to fight.

[sdn8tv]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.

Please show me one post that is absurd or unbelievable. Every post was backed up with documented information.

[GentleBreeze]

Go talk to some more people because all the people I've spoken to about this case believe the boy.:smile:

I think that is normal to have one group of people believing one thing and one totally different group believing the exact opposite.

The saying goes "we seek what we wish to find" so possibly the ones we talk with share only our own view points and we are not around others or know of others who has a vast differing opinion that the ones we have talked with.

If someone in St. John already believes the boy is guilty then they certainly aren't going to be conversing often with the ones who think he is innocent. There is no common ground because of the totally opposing viewpoints.

I could also say those whom I have talked with are convinced that the boy did this, but I certainly couldn't say with any certainty what all the 4,000+ citizens in St. John's believes.

But imo, those that accept that he did this is in the majority. If not and the majority of the town thought differently, there would be an uproar about it and the media would be used to get their message across loud and clear. That has not happened and the plea deal was over a month ago. Still silence from those in that town, once the deal was struck they seemed to have moved on trying to restore the town back to what it was before this happened. Before, when murders just didn't happen there.

imo

[Pena64]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.

The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO

[Jay]

Jay, I think Linda was meaning if the count one charge had been dismissed. If Judge Roca had ruled in the State's favor then the boy could be tried as an adult later on. I believe at the age of 15 for the murder of his father.

The Appellate Court said Judge Roca could go ahead and rule on the State's motion to dismiss count one before the official competency hearing was held and he did always set up the motion to dismiss before the competency hearing dates.



Is that appeals court decision online. I'd like to read it.

IF a person is not at the bind over age when the crime was committed they can't simply do it when he turns 15. I never heard of that.

[Columbo]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.

The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO

What you say here doesn't match the statements that have been documented about him being well behaved and polite. Again, a lot of hearsay with no link to back up. Anyone can say anything. But the saying is, 'Believe half of what you see and NOTHING of what you hear'. Your posts are VERY slanted. Are you Nichole? The child has had NO PROBLEMS since he has been out with the mother.

[Pena64]

It is true and what I observed. The boy was a braggart, and a bully, plain and simple. I'm a Pena...I'll turn it back on you...it seems sdn8tv, Columbo, Childs voice, are you Eryn posting under all these identities?

[Pena64]

You seem slanted to the boy with your hearsay. How do you know the boy has had no problems?? Do you live with him? For all we know, he could have killed someone else? I'm sure the judicial department is monitoring him closely so he doesnt cause any more probelsm. JMO

[Columbo]

It is true and what I observed. The boy was a braggart, and a bully, plain and simple. I'm a Pena...I'll turn it back on you...it seems sdn8tv, Columbo, Childs voice, are you Eryn posting under all these identities?

Well, if what you say is true, it further confirms the mental/emotional abuse that has been described going on in the home. Eryn had been concerned for some time. He certainly has no behavior problems now. I know you want the best for Vinces's son now.

[sdn8tv]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.

The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO

Every kid goes through this behavior at times...NOT ALL THE TIME. If you think your child or any other child doesn't misbehave at times then someone does not have a grip on reality.

IF this was true, which I believe there is some truth but quite a bit of exaggeration going on here to prove a point, then certainly there were way more warning flags going on here that his parents, family, teachers, church and everyone else in the town of St. John's simply ignored.

[sdn8tv]

You seem slanted to the boy with your hearsay. How do you know the boy has had no problems?? Do you live with him? For all we know, he could have killed someone else? I'm sure the judicial department is monitoring him closely so he doesnt cause any more probelsm. JMO

Hearsay? I have provided documentation and even told you where to go find it in the reports. You, on the contrary only provide your opinion, so you should really provide something other than your opinion to discredit the documentation I provided.

[sdn8tv]

It is true and what I observed. The boy was a braggart, and a bully, plain and simple. I'm a Pena...I'll turn it back on you...it seems sdn8tv, Columbo, Childs voice, are you Eryn posting under all these identities?

I can assure you we ar differnt people. WE are concerned people about how an 8 year old boy found himself caught up in the horrible situation. Whether he pulled the trigger or not it not my point. As I have said previously, something seriously went wrong with this boy's life and actually thank your for futher supporting my position with your opinion of CR. Again...many signs that were simply ignored and now you want us to believe that the town of St. John's is Monday morning quarterbacks...please.

IF you would like to know who I am, simply PM me and we can discuss off-line. I'm not hiding behind anything. I will be glad to discuss my position with you off-line.

[GentleBreeze]

Is that appeals court decision online. I'd like to read it.

IF a person is not at the bind over age when the crime was committed they can't simply do it when he turns 15. I never heard of that.

Well I know it was at one time but that has been awhile back now and I did not bookmark it. Sorry. Maybe another poster did.

But it had to be legal motion in the State of Arizona or when the case was sent to the Appellate Court they would have ruled stating it wasn't legal to dismiss the count one charge.

However they did not say that. The DA put in a motion to dismiss one of the charges about two weeks after they charged the boy. The Judge at that time said he was going to wait on any substantive rulings until after the competency hearing was completed. The State filed the appeal. The appeal court stated the Judge did not have to wait to rule on the motion to dismiss as he had been doing and that incompetency in a juvenile case is not the same standard when it comes to an adult being incompetent to stand trial.

I think when this first happened everyone was in shock and when the DA had time to really look at the case he knew even if the boy did go to trial, the most he would have gotten would be until 18. He could have gotten that just for the premeditated murder of one victim, so by leaving the other charge in it gave no justice to the second victim, and more or less would be a two for one sentence.

They may have not been able to try him under adult standards or sentencing guidelines but they could try him later on and still give him the years he would have gotten in the juvenile system which would be around 9 years. That would have been a far cry better for Vinnie Romero's murder than the non-justice they had to settle for in the end.

Both sides had monumental worries that put them both at high risk and a high gamble. One adversarial side or the other was going to lose big time, when Roca finally did rule on his motions to dismiss and even the competency issue because he may have proceeded with caution and thought the boy should be reassessed in 240 to see if he was age competent. Even his own lawyer said he could learn the ends and outs in 240 days.

IMO, I give Judge Roca a lot of credit for pushing this plea deal to its conclusion. He never let them know which way he was leaning. At least this way some justice is better than no justice at all.

But this had to be one of the most difficult cases for all legal parties involved. As far as I know he is the youngest defendant that has committed double homicide. If others are out there, I haven't found them.


imoo

[sdn8tv]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.

The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO
I'm glad he is not living in that town also. Good for his mother to get him out of there. I highly doubt that if the judge, attorney's, therapists or vicitims thought for one minute he would run off and kill someone he would not be "on the LOOSE"

[GentleBreeze]

Hearsay? I have provided documentation and even told you where to go find it in the reports. You, on the contrary only provide your opinion, so you should really provide something other than your opinion to discredit the documentation I provided.

Actually all witness statements are just that. They do not become evidence until they are sworn in and testify under oath in a court of law and asked direct questions and are cross examined. So we will never see really any confirmation or substantiation to all of those statements since the boy plead the case out.

If Pena knows the boy then I certainly think their opinion of him carries weight.

We had already heard he bullied his younger relatives, so it isn't shocking to me that he may have loudly bullied other kids. Also didn't one of the witnesses in the DPS report say the boy was throwing mud clods and a lady asked him to stop and he told her she wasn't in charge, or something like that? Didn't one say he was cocky and arrogant?

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

You seem slanted to the boy with your hearsay. How do you know the boy has had no problems?? Do you live with him? For all we know, he could have killed someone else? I'm sure the judicial department is monitoring him closely so he doesn't cause any more problems. JMO

I agree. I wonder if he was sneaky with his bullying? Doing so only when his parent or parents weren't around or when he thought he could get away with it without being caught by Vinnie?

I think they are monitoring his every move. Having to even be notified what family member is seeing him and when sounds extremely restrictive to me.

I would think he is still not back in a public school yet.

imo

[TheItalian]

Actually all witness statements are just that. They do not become evidence until they are sworn in and testify under oath in a court of law and asked direct questions and are cross examined. So we will never see really any confirmation or substantiation to all of those statements since the boy plead the case out.

If Pena knows the boy then I certainly think their opinion of him carries weight.

We had already heard he bullied his younger relatives, so it isn't shocking to me that he may have loudly bullied other kids. Also didn't one of the witnesses in the DPS report say the boy was throwing mud clods and a lady asked him to stop and he told her she wasn't in charge, or something like that? Didn't one say he was cocky and arrogant?

imoo

I would agree. From everything I've read, this boy, was a liar, bully, and now he's moved up to pled guilty cold blooded killer

[Jay]

Well I know it was at one time but that has been awhile back now and I did not bookmark it. Sorry. Maybe another poster did.

But it had to be legal motion in the State of Arizona or when the case was sent to the Appellate Court they would have ruled stating it wasn't legal to dismiss the count one charge.




I did some research on Juvenile bindovers in AZ and came up with this:

It does appear the "discretionary" transfer is a minimum of 8 years old.

Other sites also stated age 8 as a "minimum" age to bind over.

This does not mean they can try him when he is much older and put him away for life, IMO.

Although there is no statute of limitations on murder, anywhere in the country, I have never heard of such as described being done. Possible I guess?


http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/pubs/tryingjuvasadult/states/az.html


Here is an AZ appeal court case dealing with "general" bind over laws:


http://www.cofad1.state.az.us/opinionfiles/JV/JV050205.pdf

What I mostly meant before was, if say the age is 14, they can't wait until 14 to try him and then bind him over as an adult.


Also when I said before a juvenile can not be housed in an adult prison, they can in some states, I meant they MUST be seperated from the adult population until 18.

[TheItalian]

How on earth can an 8 year old child sign on a plea deal when he was found incompetent? Oh, I know, the same way he was coerced into confessing! :rolleyes:

definition coerce: to make somebody do something against his/her will by using force or threats.

hmmm.

My opinion is if you can kill someone, you can understand a plea. He's not a 3 year old.

[TheItalian]

I'm glad he is not living in that town also. Good for his mother to get him out of there. I highly doubt that if the judge, attorney's, therapists or vicitims thought for one minute he would run off and kill someone he would not be "on the LOOSE"


I agree with the other poster. Why is this admitted killer on the loose? I wouldn't feel safe if I lived there. IMO

[TheItalian]

One of the things I remember the boy telling a girl at the city park, that she lived in a ****ty trailer while he lived in a house. Pretty sad for an 8 year old. He was good at insulting other kids. It's kind of pathetic that Eryn is posting under all these aliases. IMO

This sounds like one messed up kid...I wouldn't doubt it that the mom is posting under aliases to make it sound like she's a good mother and that the boy is a good kid. My opinion.

[sdn8tv]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.
Cheap entertainment is a Lifetime movie. This is a real life. The lives are shattered of several families. If this boy did it, something terrible happened that led up this - what was it? If this boy was simply involved and ending their suffering - who shot the first shots - who is he covering for? IF this boy truly walked up on this horrible scene - who did it?
Again - my only purpose for posting these facts it to show there were several things wrong in this boy's life.

Can anyone on this board if they would have allowed the like of Romans a) in their house or b) around their 8 year old child?

[sdn8tv]

It is true and what I observed. The boy was a braggart, and a bully, plain and simple. I'm a Pena...I'll turn it back on you...it seems sdn8tv, Columbo, Childs voice, are you Eryn posting under all these identities?

Perhaps these are just survival skills this boy had to learn.

[sdn8tv]

Why are we all of the sudden attacking this boy and his mother?

[sdn8tv]

One of the things I remember the boy telling a girl at the city park, that she lived in a ****ty trailer while he lived in a house. Pretty sad for an 8 year old. He was good at insulting other kids. It's kind of pathetic that Eryn is posting under all these aliases. IMO


Perhaps this is the behavior taught to him. Perhaps people in his life talked to him in this manner and this is what he was taught. Perhaps the people in his life showed him it was alright to make fun of other people.

[tottenwess]

One of the things I remember the boy telling a girl at the city park, that she lived in a ****ty trailer while he lived in a house. Pretty sad for an 8 year old. He was good at insulting other kids. It's kind of pathetic that Eryn is posting under all these aliases. IMO

Long time reader...First time poster.....but I can no longer keep silent. I have no idea who you are, why should I believe any thing you say? For all we know you could be living in Maine and just making things up. By using a little critical thinking, I would believe you have an agenda. And what is so hard to believe that more people, besides Eryn, would not want to see an 8 year-oldin prison, guilty or not!

[Pena64]

Cheap entertainment is a Lifetime movie. This is a real life. The lives are shattered of several families. If this boy did it, something terrible happened that led up this - what was it? If this boy was simply involved and ending their suffering - who shot the first shots - who is he covering for? IF this boy truly walked up on this horrible scene - who did it?
Again - my only purpose for posting these facts it to show there were several things wrong in this boy's life.

Can anyone on this board if they would have allowed the like of Romans a) in their house or b) around their 8 year old child?

The boy did it, admitted it, plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with TR, VR, the stepmom. They did everything RIGHT. It's the boy plain and simple with a screw loose. There is a history of mental illness in the family. IMO

[bkwits]

sdn8tv, there are none.:thumbsup:

Thank you for posting all your DOCUMENTED information.


It seems that the "CR did it, throw him away crowd" don't have to provide links.

IMO

[bkwits]

The boy did it, admitted it, plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with TR, VR, the stepmom. They did everything RIGHT. It's the boy plain and simple with a screw loose. There is a history of mental illness in the family. IMO

Please provide a link to the history of mental illness in the family.

[TheItalian]

Perhaps these are just survival skills this boy had to learn.

Not survival skills...I agree with Pena! The boy is a psychopath or has mental health issues. The family is fine...it's the boy that's broken. JMO

[TheItalian]

If you want to pretend to be Eryn today you can.:wink: Tomorrow is my turn, k?:laugh:

OMG, like the real Eryn would have the time or even want to post here.:rolleyes:

sdn8tv, thanks again for posting all the documented information. Do you by any chance happen to know what time Nicole (Nichole) got to CR's house on THAT DAY? Did she drive a car, ride a bike, walk, get dropped off there? Did she ever say how long she stayed and what she was doing while waiting for CR? TIA

I'm glad you both admitted you're Eryn. That strightened that up.

[bkwits]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.

The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO

Please provide proof that you are acquainted with CR and what your relationship to him is. I beieve it is required on this board.

[wolfi_2]

Please provide proof that you are acquainted with CR and what your relationship to him is. I beieve it is required on this board.

That`s it, stay on the fact's that are available with a link or don't post it, I think that's what coldwater say a while ago here.

[Pena64]

Unfortunately I know CR. I believe him to be psycopathic or mentally ill. Nothing is required from anybody posting on this board, since he already pled guilty. I'm not saying he should go to prison. I am saying he shouldn't be loose and he needs lots of treatment. I'm just saying what I know. Believe it or not, but it's the truth. It seems to me on this board that Eryn is posting under a lot of identities to make her boy appear innocent when he pled guilty, is guilty. IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Perhaps this is the behavior taught to him. Perhaps people in his life talked to him in this manner and this is what he was taught. Perhaps the people in his life showed him it was alright to make fun of other people.

Did anyone in the witness statements say that Vinnie Romero bullied people or went around demeaning them?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

That`s it, stay on the fact's that are available with a link or don't post it, I think that's what coldwater say a while ago here.

I havent seen a link posted here. I have only seen page numbers quoted but no link ever given to those quotes or all of the witness statements.:confused:

imo

[sdn8tv]

The boy did it, admitted it, plain and simple. There is nothing wrong with TR, VR, the stepmom. They did everything RIGHT. It's the boy plain and simple with a screw loose. There is a history of mental illness in the family. IMO

They did EVERYTHING right? REALLY? Did you read the investigation?
Tim was a CONVICTED mid-level drug dealer, accused of rape, having an affair with multiple women in town, charged with beating a juvenile because he thought he was sleeping with his neice.
Vincent belittled his wife in front of family, friends and his own son. Had two illegitate children, his own parents asked that a previous girlfriend not to discuss their previous domestic violence history, he ordered Tiffany to spank his own child
Tiffany - all I know about her is that she talked disrespectful of her step-son mother to his face, threatened him with what happens in this house stays in this house when his mother called her out on it. She was out partying within weeks of her husband's death.

Are you so jaded towards and eight/nine year old boy that there is just no middle ground with you? There is nothing Plain and Simple about this case.

[sdn8tv]

I havent seen a link posted here. I have only seen page numbers quoted but no link ever given to those quotes or all of the witness statements.:confused:

imo

Are you kidding me? What else do you need. I have provided exactly where to go get this information.

[sdn8tv]

It seems that the "CR did it, throw him away crowd" don't have to provide links.

IMO

Yep as long as it says "In My Opinion" it is fact!!!!::glare:

[sdn8tv]

Not survival skills...I agree with Pena! The boy is a psychopath or has mental health issues. The family is fine...it's the boy that's broken. JMO


This family is far from fine...

[bkwits]

Yep as long as it says "In My Opinion" it is fact!!!!::glare:


That is not what Coldwater said to us. She said we have to provide a link to back up our statements. This poster has repeatedly made derogatory and hateful statements about CR and his family. Even going as far as to saythat CR is a psychopath and there is a history of mental illness in the family.

Where is the link or documentation to that? :scared:

[bkwits]

Unfortunately I know CR. I believe him to be psycopathic or mentally ill. Nothing is required from anybody posting on this board, since he already pled guilty. I'm not saying he should go to prison. I am saying he shouldn't be loose and he needs lots of treatment. I'm just saying what I know. Believe it or not, but it's the truth. It seems to me on this board that Eryn is posting under a lot of identities to make her boy appear innocent when he pled guilty, is guilty. IMO.


Do you work at the school in St. Johns?

[wolfi_2]

That is not what Coldwater said to us. She said we have to provide a link to back up our statements. This poster has repeatedly made derogatory and hateful statements about CR and his family. Even going as far as to saythat CR is a psychopath and there is a history of mental illness in the family.

Where is the link or documentation to that? :scared:

you are right, I can't find it anymore because it was a while ago.

[GentleBreeze]

sdn8tv...that little bit of information alone tells me all was not "normal" in that house.:wink:

You don't think men and women are jealous of each other? I think a lot of people are jealous of a lot of people, not only their spouses.

And I am sure that if a husband thought that his wife's skirt or whatever they were wearing was showing her panties that they wouldn't like it one darn bit and say something about it, right then and there.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

If you want to pretend to be Eryn, we'll let you have a turn.

I'm almost positive Eryn has no desire to post here.

I post here because I believe the boy is innocent. I believe the investigation was messed up - I believe the killer(s) are still roaming the Streets and perhaps one of them has TR's missing firearm. I think CR was set up too. CR was either intentionally set up or he just came home at the wrong time.

You think he just came home at the uncanny exact time after his walkabout for 2 hours and 52 minutes sight unseen in a very open spaced neighborhood?

imoo

[sdn8tv]

You don't think men and women are jealous of each other? I think a lot of people are jealous of a lot of people, not only their spouses.

And I am sure that if a husband thought that his wife's skirt or whatever they were wearing was showing her panties that they wouldn't like it one darn bit and say something about it, right then and there.
imoo


In my opinion, that is called control.

[sdn8tv]

You don't think men and women are jealous of each other? I think a lot of people are jealous of a lot of people, not only their spouses.
And I am sure that if a husband thought that his wife's skirt or whatever they were wearing was showing her panties that they wouldn't like it one darn bit and say something about it, right then and there.

imoo

Not to the point of accusing a "friend" who is helping you build your own house, to accuse him of sleeping with your wife...heck no.

[GentleBreeze]

In my opinion, that is called control.

Control? Surely you are kidding. It has nothing to do with control. So if your husband had his fly gaping open showing his private parts in front of others you would just sit there and say nothing?:ohmy:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Not to the point of accusing a "friend" who is helping you build your own house, to accuse him of sleeping with your wife...heck no.

Maybe he had reasons to believe that. But Vinnie is dead and can never tell his side of the story leaving the guy to say whatever he wants to.

imo

[tottenwess]

Blame the kid, not everyone else...IMO

I'm not blaming anyone, but something went wrong somewhere.

[sdn8tv]

Maybe you should reread all your posts...IMHO

Maybe you should provide the posts...

[tottenwess]

And your point???? This made CR kill 2 people??? IMO the family was ok, the boy wasn't. Every family has spats.
I sense some aggression in your posts......

I did not say that that made CR kill 2 people, because frankly, I'm not totally convinced that he killed anyone.

[sdn8tv]

No aggression. Do I detect defensiveness? Because frankly, I'm totally convince he did kill 2 people. IMO
I will not engage. This is obviously a game for whoever you are. If we don't reply to you we give you no ammo to get us banned. I'm smarter than that. The best way to fight rumor is with facts and that what I will continue to do. Thanks. You earned my ignore button

[Pena64]

I will not engage. This is obviously a game for whoever you are. If we don't reply to you we give you no ammo to get us banned. I'm smarter than that. The best way to fight rumor is with facts and that what I will continue to do. Thanks. You earned my ignore button

Oh no...the ignore button Doc!

Doc you're completely right. No one here wants to blame the kid, even though he confessed and pled guilty. And those facts always get conveniently ignored. A lot of people wants to blame the dead victims. IMHO.

[GentleBreeze]

And your point???? This made CR kill 2 people??? IMO the family was ok, the boy wasn't. Every family has spats.

I agree Doc. I think these parents did the very best they could but with this boy I just don't think there was a thing that was going to change what he had fixed already in his mind. I think Vinnie tried right up to the day he was murdered. Just the past Friday before he was killed on Wednesday he and Tiff went to the school and had lunch with him. I know my grandchildren are always thrilled when their parents show up to show they support and care about them. It is such a sad ending, very sad.

They weren't perfect of course, no parents are but this boy was far from perfect either. Imo, there is a disconnect somewhere. May be pathological but something is very wrong with this boy and I think it started way back when his bio mom walked out and moved far away from him and it simmered all these years until it exploded in a murderous rage.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Not many parents have lunch with their kid if they don't love them. I didn't know about the lunch. Thanks for bringing that up. This supports my idea that the boy is defective. IMO


That is why I believe the problem wasn't with his parents. The problem was within this boy. Imo, he had shutdown his emotions long ago and learned to care about no one but himself. It didn't matter what Vinnie or Tiff tried to do, it just didn't sink into the heart and mind of this boy.

He has no red flags when it comes to being abused either, imo. This boy had it made. He excelled at school, excelled in sports, was a leader, could sway other children his way,had plenty of friends, manipulative, loud, social. If anything I think he was most likely spoiled rotten due to his family including his dad knowing that he had never had a mother there to care for him until Tiff came along and became a mother figure in his life.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Oh no...the ignore button Doc!

Doc you're completely right. No one here wants to blame the kid, even though he confessed and pled guilty. And those facts always get conveniently ignored. A lot of people wants to blame the dead victims. IMHO.

Pena, have you heard any update on Tiffany's condition?

Thanks.

imo

[bkwits]

Oh no...the ignore button Doc!

Doc you're completely right. No one here wants to blame the kid, even though he confessed and pled guilty. And those facts always get conveniently ignored. A lot of people wants to blame the dead victims. IMHO.

You are also ignoring some facts. The so-called confession was illegal and the judge refused to allow it in court.

The child pled guilty to negilent homicide only of Tim Romans. That could mean a lot of different things. It was a convenient out for the DA, Judge, and defense lawyer paid by the court.

Where is the evidence that the child killed two men? I haven't seen it. The only evidence that I know of is Tanya Roman's statement about the phone call and only two bullets that came from the Chipmunk gun. CR's prints were not even on the gun. Don't you think LE jumped too quick to point the finger at CR?

[GentleBreeze]

You are also ignoring some facts. The so-called confession was illegal and the judge refused to allow it in court.

The child pled guilty to negligent homicide only of Tim Romans. That could mean a lot of different things. It was a convenient out for the DA, Judge, and defense lawyer paid by the court.

Where is the evidence that the child killed two men? I haven't seen it. The only evidence that I know of is Tanya Roman's statement about the phone call and only two bullets that came from the Chipmunk gun. CR's prints were not even on the gun. Don't you think LE jumped too quick to point the finger at CR?

That may be true bkwits but it is very hard to un-ring a bell. Actually it is impossible, imo.

We all know when any defendant pleads it is to a lessor charge than the crime they actually did.

I still believe this was double premeditated murder. I think he was forming the thoughts around the first time he threatened to kill his father.

There is no way it could have been anyone else. There just wasn't time for him to do what he said he did from strolling up the street to the house, finding Tim, going inside, leaving and already being at the neighbor's house within a minute or two after 5:00 pm.

I think he told half truths. He wanted it to sound like he just shot them afterward but that makes no sense either. Even if that were true, then that truly shows there is something horribly wrong with a kid who thinks shooting two humans in the head is the right thing to do. It would really show that he gives no value to human life. Even 2 year olds are calling 911 nowadays.

I have often thought how he had to be so cold and removed to stand there and shoot 10 times and then go out and casually pet the dog on the head and simply walk off as if he was going for another stroll. That chills me to the bones and makes me worry if this kid can be treated successfully or not.

IMO, all other parties have valid alibis. This boy had no alibi or witnesses yet he was to have been walking around the neighborhood ad nauseaum for at least 2 hours and 52 minutes. The reason no one saw him is imo he wasn't out. He went home and he waited with gun and bullets in hand until they arrived to pick them off just like two of those unsuspecting rabbits he had shot and killed.

Not finding identifiable prints is not uncommon at all. Even Beth Karas who has been a Prosecutor and crime commentator for over 20 years said more times than not, prints are not identifiable on firearms.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

So basically, your position is that Vincent was not a good father. He had no control over his own child and, even though CR had been with him for the majority of his life, he was scarred beyond repair at the tender age of 8 because his parents were divorced? Jeez.

Did Vincent spoil him or, as the child's own grandparents stated, was he too strict? It can't be both. Generally speaking, children who are bullies in the schoolyard are suffering some type of abuse or neglect at home. It's most often a defense mechanism, not a personality trait.

We have seen absolutely no evidence that this child is a "psychopath" or anything else along those lines. I feel confident that if that were even remotely true, this case would not have played out the way it has. No one on this forum is qualified to make that assessment.

Oh so nice to "see" you, Mama..:smile:

I think he was scarred long years ago when his bio mother abandoned him and move far away from him in other states and didn't even see him but 2 weeks out of 1.5 years in his vital forming years. The divorce wasnt the problem, the inconsistent and non existent relationship with his bio mom was imo. I think Vinnie was a good father...it just did not stick with this child.

I think Vinnie pretty much spoiled him due to knowing the boy had no mother that was consistent in his life. But I think when Vinnie remarried and they became one family unit, he realized that the boy needed more structure and discipline and was getting out of hand with his constant lying and bullying his younger relatives and who knows what else they had to go through in their struggles with him while inside their home.

I don't think all bullies are abused kids. I think they are kids with nasty attitudes and many are spoiled and they want to rule the day and manipulate others to follow their lead and if they don't then they will bully them into giving in.

We don't have to be qualified to think he suffers from psychopathic traits. We are entitled to express our own opinions and I do think he has major issues. I think he was as cool when he shot them as he was when he gave his hour long interview. No remorse for anyone but himself when he knew he had messed up and was going to juvie. Very consistent traits imo.

Any person who can shoot a rifle 10 times into human beings and just put the gun on the cage, let the dog out, pat her on the head and just walk away while a dead man is on the porch and a dead father on the stairwell isn't my idea of someone who is connected. IMO this boy has severe issues. I just hope that they are treatable.

imo

[Pena64]

You are also ignoring some facts. The so-called confession was illegal and the judge refused to allow it in court.

The child pled guilty to negilent homicide only of Tim Romans. That could mean a lot of different things. It was a convenient out for the DA, Judge, and defense lawyer paid by the court.

Where is the evidence that the child killed two men? I haven't seen it. The only evidence that I know of is Tanya Roman's statement about the phone call and only two bullets that came from the Chipmunk gun. CR's prints were not even on the gun. Don't you think LE jumped too quick to point the finger at CR?

blah...blah...blah The boy did it..IMO

[Pena64]

Well then, you quite obviously haven't read everything that has been made available to the public. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter, because he did it, he admitted it. From all I've read he was a liar, and the confession convinced me. IMO

[Pena64]

Oh so nice to "see" you, Mama..:smile:

I think he was scarred long years ago when his bio mother abandoned him and move far away from him in other states and didn't even see him but 2 weeks out of 1.5 years in his vital forming years. The divorce wasnt the problem, the inconsistent and non existent relationship with his bio mom was imo. I think Vinnie was a good father...it just did not stick with this child.

I think Vinnie pretty much spoiled him due to knowing the boy had no mother that was consistent in his life. But I think when Vinnie remarried and they became one family unit, he realized that the boy needed more structure and discipline and was getting out of hand with his constant lying and bullying his younger relatives and who knows what else they had to go through in their struggles with him while inside their home.

I don't think all bullies are abused kids. I think they are kids with nasty attitudes and many are spoiled and they want to rule the day and manipulate others to follow their lead and if they don't then they will bully them into giving in.

We don't have to be qualified to think he suffers from psychopathic traits. We are entitled to express our own opinions and I do think he has major issues. I think he was as cool when he shot them as he was when he gave his hour long interview. No remorse for anyone but himself when he knew he had messed up and was going to juvie. Very consistent traits imo.

Any person who can shoot a rifle 10 times into human beings and just put the gun on the cage, let the dog out, pat her on the head and just walk away while a dead man is on the porch and a dead father on the stairwell isn't my idea of someone who is connected. IMO this boy has severe issues. I just hope that they are treatable.

imo

I agree..he is either defective or a psychopath. I choose to believe defective meaning there is a chance of fixing him until 18.

From what I've heard, the Dr. told the stepmom she wouldnt walk again.

[Pena64]

I disagree with Mama. In this case I believe the family did the right things, the parents were fine, it's the child that needs fixed. The child is either a psychopath or mentally defective. And I tend to believe the mentally defective. IMO

[mrrogers]

The posts on here are too funny.

Even after the boy confessed to police, his confession to his stepmom at the juvenile detention center, after all the evidence, the multiple death threats, no alibi, his gun, his prints, seen at the scene, heard at the scene, pled guilty, people are still posting that the San Carlos Drug Gangs did it, that Nicole or TRomero did it, that some mysterious person in a white car did it.

If the boy was innocent he should have pled INNOCENT. He got away with a double murder with a mere slap on the wrist.

Every person I've talked to except some Bloomfields and a few others know he's guilty. Why do you think he doesn't live in St. Johns but lives in the Concho district? A vast majority of parents and teachers didn't want him in school, or they would withdraw their kids. I would guess 3500 out of 4000 people here believe him guilty, and for good reason. They have common sense.

This board is cheap entertainment for me reading posts that are totally absurd and unbelievable. The only sensible people here are Eagergal, Linda and GentleBreeze. JMO.
thats totally contrary to the news has been saying of the people standing behind him
you should read the stuff on the apache county server that you have to sign in for. the dps interviews show a number of people saying he was just a normal kid even the kids he played with said that
you have a right to your opinion for sure but its totally different than what dps got when they interviewed people
if he was that bad a kid how come the concho parents arent doing anything
the only prints found was on a box of shells even the crime lab in texas says on the files on the apche county server the gsr tests do not mean he shot a gun avilla said she was afraid he got them from her
the crime lab has also not been able to positively identify the prints on his gun as his they have asked for anotehr (the 3rd set to try and link him the gun but as far as ive heard they havent been able to do it
http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/

as im sure youve read that the confession was thrown out the county atty agreed to it he knew hed get laughed out of court if did try and use such a cooercive confession lawyers around the world were screaming bloody murder over the techiques used abc15 featured phoenix atty (www.abc15.com) who said it was screwed up
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
why they gave him a pleas they were afraid they would lose in court
that tells me all i need to know
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/47002
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/11/21/20081121roberts1122.html
i wish they hadnt taken the pleas because the gunshot reconstructionish would show how it was impossible for him to shot them
the coeerced confession guy menetioned in the links would
have testifed
dr richard ofshe
it would have been a great horserace to watch that for sure
anyway knock yourself out were all intitled to believe what we want to

[sdn8tv]

So what is the point?
IF he snapped or he didn't
IF he acted solo or he didn't

Doesn't anyone wonder what led an 8 year old boy such a desperate place he felt this was the only way out?

That has been my point from the beginning but a few posters here have really turned this nasty. Seems these are the ones that are having a hard time accepting the facts.
I''m really disappointed in the way some of the adults here just want to see a kid burn, lock him up throw away the key.
For the love of Pete, he's NINE years old.

I also think it is ironic how within a "few hours" all these really negative nasty posters appears. Almost looks like a certain poster went and gathered their friends and said come join the fight. Let's enjoy how much more pain and suffering we can bring to this family, cuz we just know they haven't suffered enough.

[mrrogers]

Nice to "see" you too GB!

IIRC, CR was 2 when Vincent was awarded primary custody. And again, IIRC, Vincent and Tiffany had been together for about 4 years. I have to assume that Tiffany was a major maternal influence in this child's life for a long time and I seriously doubt that their marriage constituted a huge upheaval for the boy. Lots of children are "abandoned" by their bio mothers and fathers and they don't all become murderers.

And....I said GENERALLY, children who are bullies are abused in some way. Not ALL. I don't believe children who bully other children and children who manipulate everyone around them are mutually exclusive. These are two very different characteristics....IMO.

And....I didn't say no one here is qualified to identify "psychopathic traits." Someone here, who claims to know CR (although hasn't stated in what capacity) said, flat out, that CR is a PSYCHOPATH. If that person is qualified to make such a diagnosis and has conducted an in-depth psychological study of THIS child, it would lend some credence to their conclusion. I do not believe that is the case. Seeing a child at a pool on occasion does not does not make one qualified to make such a claim.

And finally, I actually AGREE with you in that anyone who can pump 10 rounds into two, unsuspecting victims and then go about their business IS a psychopath. I just don't believe this kid is the killer.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[bkwits]

I disagree with Mama. In this case I believe the family did the right things, the parents were fine, it's the child that needs fixed. The child is either a psychopath or mentally defective. And I tend to believe the mentally defective. IMO

Now what did you say your relationship is to the child? Where did you observe him? From your previous post, I assume it was at his school Is that correct?

[mrrogers]

originally Posted by Pena64 View Post
I disagree with Mama. In this case I believe the family did the right things, the parents were fine, it's the child that needs fixed. The child is either a psychopath or mentally defective. And I tend to believe the mentally defective.
so youre like professionally qualified i guess to make that decisoh
psychiatrist? psychologist ?

[sdn8tv]

Not many parents have lunch with their kid if they don't love them. I didn't know about the lunch. Thanks for bringing that up. This supports my idea that the boy is defective. IMO


I'm sure Vincent had many lunches with CR. I'm sure Vincent loved CR very much. This is not about love, this is about what made an 8 year old boy reach such a desperate place that this was the only way out.

[mrrogers]

I disagree with Mama. In this case I believe the family did the right things, the parents were fine, it's the child that needs fixed. The child is either a psychopath or mentally defective. And I tend to believe the mentally defective. IMO
so when did you become a psychologist or psychiartrist or mental health care professional
http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com
youll find other opnions to the contrary here
the kid can do the probation thing without any problem so hes
jmo

[mrrogers]

You can't house a juvenile in an adult prison.

I don't know the exact details of the plea bargain, but even without one, even if convicted, it is very unlikely that state's law permit him to be incarcerated past his 18th or 21st birthday.

If so, from 18 until 21, yes he can do time in an adult prison.

well it sez the only place he ll "do any time is county detention if its ordered
state detention was specifically addressed as not an option for him
the kid can do this probation standing on his head i think if his present
performance is any indicator. if hes ever put in detention he ll just come out smarter then he went in on how to play the games
jmo

[sdn8tv]

GB, I personally know CR.

When I observed him at swimming or at the park or other situations, he called people names all the time, like the Vallejos boy, he called him gay. He would bully other kids all the time. He would get about 6 inches from their face to intimidate other boys. He would cut in line at the pool and grab other kids treats. He would dunk other kids and showoff on the diving board. Mrs Hawes was always yelling at him at the pool. He was rather obnoxious.

Several times, I told him to stop picking on other kids and he gave me a hateful stare like he was going to kill me. If he didn't get his way, he gave that hateful stare of his. I saw him playing musical chairs, and the other boy sat down first, so CR knocked him off the chair so he could win. Whenever he spoke to me he lied.


The other kids at the park called him a bully and a liar. He was manipulative to the other kids. I'm not surprized he told Mrs Trickey he wanted a good report, just another way he tried manipulating others.
I'm glad he's not living in this town. Being loose like he is, who knows who he could kill next? JMO
Oh you mean the Vallejo boys that happen to be related to the Pena's. And IMHO, if anyone would happen to work for the school district and happen to talk about students in the fashion should really have some consequences to their invasion of this boys privacy.

[Annie143]

Is there a picture anywhere of this little man ?I have read others commenting on his appearance and I just wondered what was so fierce ab out an 8 year old.

Thx.

[GentleBreeze]

Nice to "see" you too GB!

IIRC, CR was 2 when Vincent was awarded primary custody. And again, IIRC, Vincent and Tiffany had been together for about 4 years. I have to assume that Tiffany was a major maternal influence in this child's life for a long time and I seriously doubt that their marriage constituted a huge upheaval for the boy. Lots of children are "abandoned" by their bio mothers and fathers and they don't all become murderers.

And....I said GENERALLY, children who are bullies are abused in some way. Not ALL. I don't believe children who bully other children and children who manipulate everyone around them are mutually exclusive. These are two very different characteristics....IMO.

And....I didn't say no one here is qualified to identify "psychopathic traits." Someone here, who claims to know CR (although hasn't stated in what capacity) said, flat out, that CR is a PSYCHOPATH. If that person is qualified to make such a diagnosis and has conducted an in-depth psychological study of THIS child, it would lend some credence to their conclusion. I do not believe that is the case. Seeing a child at a pool on occasion does not does not make one qualified to make such a claim.

And finally, I actually AGREE with you in that anyone who can pump 10 rounds into two, unsuspecting victims and then go about their business IS a psychopath. I just don't believe this kid is the killer.

Good Morning, Mama!

If that is so, at a very tender impressionable age this boy had no mother. From the literature that I have read it has stated that the bond between mother and her child is the most important relationship the child can have and the status of that relationship will alter who they become. It said the relationship must be consistent and if it is non existent or very inconsistent that too can have a profound affect and teaches the child not to love or care about others.

And imo, that is what happened here. I believe among other issues, the boy suffers from an attachment disorder. This is how he could do these crimes and have no remorse. This is how he could talk about his father's horrible death in the hour long interview and show no sadness or regret that VR had died a brutal death imo. This is how he could casually tell the officer that his dad wouldn't be needing his cell phone. And this is how he could go home and lay in wait for them to come home.

I don't think this boy was desperate to do these things. I do think he was determined though. There has been nothing whatsoever uncovered that he was abused in any manner. IMO, there was no justification to these murders. There was no self defense issues.

I don't agree that things were the same once the marriage happened. I don't know that Tiffany was around the boy for four years prior. The Priest said they waited 2 years to get married. But really even taking the 2 years with Tiffany it would have made the boy almost 7. By then his personality has long been set, he is what he is by then. Imo, long before then he had shutdown all feelings and did not care about others.

I do think that once they all became one family that Vinnie and Tiff discussed the ongoing problems they were having with the boy and thought he needed more structure in order to curb his lying and other things that they were going through with him inside their home, that we will probably never know to what all that extent was. Imo, he did not like the new family rules and expectations for him. He resented it and seethed about it and became defiant, making it worse than better. No child that fears their father comes up and threatens to kill or shoot him. He had no fear. Maybe he saw his dad did have fear in his eyes and horror when he told him.

Then he threatened to kill his father......then he threatened to kill him again and then he carried it out.

I just believe that no matter which father this boy may have had he had never learned to bond and I do believe that only a mother's nurturing ways can make that happen for a child or an adopted or step mom who has been with the child from a very early age in the child's life consistently. Fathers are fathers and mothers are mothers, they both are equally needed but they do not teach the same way. Vinnie although he loved this boy dearly never could be a mother to this boy.

I do think he knew how to mimic love. He knew if he was nice and behaved, daddy would buy him anything he wanted, just like one of the witnesses said that they spoiled him and gave him everything.

While the witnesses who were outsiders did not live in the home with the boy, their perception was based on what he choose for them to see. I think we probably have known some children who when they are in the company of others can be idyllic but that is a far cry from what they really are in the home where they are making their parents lives a nightmare behind those doors.

So no, I don't have a degree in psychology but this is really what I believe. He resented the man that had placed the new rules to live by and he had no capabilities to have an emotional bond with this man, so out of anger and resentment of things he did not want to abide by he removed him from his life forever.

JMO though.

[GentleBreeze]

I totally agree and in my opinion...his mother better watch her back and never dare tell him no or attempt to discipline him. Just wait until the "honeymoon" period is over......that kid is gonna be way more than just a handful.

Over the years I have noticed that many of these male murderers have a common denominator. They grew up having major issues with their biological mothers.

I actually feel sorry for Eryn. I wouldn't want to be in her position for all the money Obama is spending. He is 9 now but he is not going to stay 9 and I have a feeling he isn't too keen on rules either. So is he just going to be the perfect child all the way until 18? Somehow I think not.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

MrRogers:
Quote:
"why they gave him a pleas they were afraid they would lose in court
that tells me all i need to know"

I respectfully disagree. All across this land 90% of the time the defendant pleas out their case instead of going to trial. This case is hardly different but more of the majority norm.

I think they both gave and took a plea because BOTH were afraid they would lose in court.

The stakes were too high if that happened for either side.

I think they plead this one down simply because of this boy's age. He was a pariah......he did not fit in anywhere.... not the juvenile justice system and he did not fit into an adult system.

His age gave him the best advantage over all other defendants because no 8 or 9 year old had started murdering two people at that age, at least not in AZ and he may be the youngest ever in the US to do so.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Is there a picture anywhere of this little man ?I have read others commenting on his appearance and I just wondered what was so fierce ab out an 8 year old.

Thx.

I believe the grandmother has taken those photos down.

I don't think it is the exterior of any murderer that matters. They come in all sizes and shapes. They can be attractive or down right ugly. They can be small or large.....demure looking or arrogant.

It is what is inside each one of them that matters imo.

Although I was haunted by his close up photo, I will refrain on commenting on how it affected me because the way he looked to me personally, is not the issue here.

imoo

[wolfi_2]

In my opinion they can't step back after the early release of the interrogation video, they must get a confession or a plea out of the boy, doesn't matter if he do it or not, otherwise the LE would lose face. All of the investigations are done only to maintain the early coerced confession, they doesn't look into any other possibility so the plea was a face keeping action to satisfied all parties without the boy his mother and his GAL. Can anyone just imagine what will be happen , if they once find out CR is innocent ? IMO

[sdn8tv]

I believe the grandmother has taken those photos down.

I don't think it is the exterior of any murderer that matters. They come in all sizes and shapes. They can be attractive or down right ugly. They can be small or large.....demure looking or arrogant.

It is what is inside each one of them that matters imo.

Although I was haunted by his close up photo, I will refrain on commenting on how it affected me because the way he looked to me personally, is not the issue here.

imoo

Oh I was too. This looked like a very vacant boy. It absolutely broke my heart:sad: I actually think after see these pictures, I felt the tug at my heart to do everything I can to help this child. I think he was let down by most adult figures in his life. IMO, that's why he loved his teacher so much.

[tottenwess]

I personally take offense to people calling this young boy a "murderer". What he plead guilty to was negligent homicide, exactly what he was forced to confess to...that when he got home he found the bodies and in his 8 year-old mind thought he should keep them from suffering (something that he was taught from a few hunting trips that he was a part of). IMO homicide is minus the malice aforethought and, therefore, technically not murder.

[sdn8tv]

I personally take offense to people calling this young boy a "murderer". What he plead guilty to was negligent homicide, exactly what he was forced to confess to...that when he got home he found the bodies and in his 8 year-old mind thought he should keep them from suffering (something that he was taught from a few hunting trips that he was a part of). IMO homicide is minus the malice aforethought and, therefore, technically not murder.

I absolutely agree :thumbsup:and that is the primary reason I'm here...to defend this boy from being further disgraced. I pray his mother doesn't read this site.

[Columbo]

I personally take offense to people calling this young boy a "murderer". What he plead guilty to was negligent homicide, exactly what he was forced to confess to...that when he got home he found the bodies and in his 8 year-old mind thought he should keep them from suffering (something that he was taught from a few hunting trips that he was a part of). IMO homicide is minus the malice aforethought and, therefore, technically not murder.


Whoa there, tottenwess! This kind of rational/factual talk won't be tolerated here. :w00t:

[GentleBreeze]

I personally take offense to people calling this young boy a "murderer". What he plead guilty to was negligent homicide, exactly what he was forced to confess to...that when he got home he found the bodies and in his 8 year-old mind thought he should keep them from suffering (something that he was taught from a few hunting trips that he was a part of). IMO homicide is minus the malice aforethought and, therefore, technically not murder.

Whether people prefer to call him a murderer or a killer, is semantics imo.

We aren't in a court of law but the court of public opinion, where anyone is allowed to believe what they believe, regardless of the legalese of the court.

That is absurd imo. Millions among millions of young children around this age hunt small game. They do not shoot wounded people who are laying there in dire need of 911 assistance. This boy is as rare as hen's teeth. 8 or 9 year olds don't go around shooting people in the head..well except this one. The thing he took from his hunting experience was the knowledge to shoot vital areas and when they are shot in other parts of the body is to shoot the final shots into the head so they don't get back up ever and knowing death is final.

Name me one other kid that was taught to go hunting that shot someone in the head to end their suffering? THIS BOY is no typical boy that went hunting with his family. Imo, he killed them both. He lay in wait to do it, imo. For at least 2 hours and 52 minutes he was no where to be seen.

Vinnie had that gun ever since he was the boy's age and not once did he raise it against a human being wanting to harm them. That is the difference in this father that respected and followed the rules taught to him by his family, and his son, who was determined to break them all.

imo

[Columbo]

Whoa there, tottenwess! This kind of rational/factual talk won't be tolerated here. :w00t:


See what I mean!!!!! :laugh:
They crawl out quickly!

[tottenwess]

Whether people prefer to call him a murderer or a killer, is semantics imo.

We aren't in a court of law but the court of public opinion, where anyone is allowed to believe what they believe, regardless of the legalese of the court.

That is absurd imo. Millions among millions of young children around this age hunt small game. They do not shoot wounded people who are laying there in dire need of 911 assistance. This boy is as rare as hen's teeth. 8 or 9 year olds don't go around shooting people in the head..well except this one. The thing he took from his hunting experience was the knowledge to shoot vital areas and when they are shot in other parts of the body is to shoot the final shots into the head so they don't get back up ever and knowing death is final.

Name me one other kid that was taught to go hunting that shot someone in the head to end their suffering? THIS BOY is no typical boy that went hunting with his family. Imo, he killed them both. He lay in wait to do it, imo. For at least 2 hours and 52 minutes he was no where to be seen.

Vinnie had that gun ever since he was the boy's age and not once did he raise it against a human being wanting to harm them. That is the difference in this father that respected and followed the rules taught to him by his family, and his son, who was determined to break them all.

imo

First, not every child in the US may not know the finer points of dialing 911. He found himself in a situation that an adult, let alone a child, would have a hard time comprehending; forgive the boy for not using the judgment of a thirty (?) year-old.

Second, negligent homicide and murder are two totally different charges. So, in the court of public opinion....if you were driving a car and accidentally hit and killed a person, it would be alright for me and the rest of the "town folk" to come out with our pitchforks and torches calling you a murderer?

[GentleBreeze]

First, not every child in the US may not know the finer points of dialing 911. He found himself in a situation that an adult, let alone a child, would have a hard time comprehending; forgive the boy for not using the judgment of a thirty (?) year-old.

Second, negligent homicide and murder are two totally different charges. So, in the court of public opinion....if you were driving a car and accidentally hit and killed a person, it would be alright for me and the rest of the "town folk" to come out with our pitchforks and torches calling you a murderer?

I am very well aware of the varying degrees in criminal cases but I am not in a courtroom.

That an adult couldn't comprehend?:confused: What adult wouldn't know how to call 911? Even 2 year olds are calling 911 nowadays.

I don't see any pitchforks but yeah if I was driving a car and killed someone anyone is entitled to call me a murderer or a killer.

I think he did use good judgment. When he killed them, he laid the gun on the cage, got Nellie out of her cage, patted her own the head and walked away and said he "found" them. Sounds pretty sharp to me. Where he messed up was on his supposed story of walking around and around and around a wide open neighborhood for almost three hours and conveniently, not one person saw him, even though there were people coming in and going out of the neighborhood.

"Technically" OJ was never convicted of murdering Ron and Nicole either but yeah, I still call him a murderer too.

I think you underestimate this boy. By all acounts he was very intelligent.



imoo

[sdn8tv]

Whether people prefer to call him a murderer or a killer, is semantics imo.

We aren't in a court of law but the court of public opinion, where anyone is allowed to believe what they believe, regardless of the legalese of the court.

That is absurd imo. Millions among millions of young children around this age hunt small game. They do not shoot wounded people who are laying there in dire need of 911 assistance. This boy is as rare as hen's teeth. 8 or 9 year olds don't go around shooting people in the head..well except this one. That is the whole point of my conversation. Something seriously WRONG happened in that family. The thing he took from his hunting experience was the knowledge to shoot vital areas and when they are shot in other parts of the body is to shoot the final shots into the head so they don't get back up ever and knowing death is final.

Name me one other kid that was taught to go hunting that shot someone in the head to end their suffering? THIS BOY is no typical boy that went hunting with his family. Imo, he killed them both. He lay in wait to do it, imo. For at least 2 hours and 52 minutes he was no where to be seen.

Vinnie had that gun ever since he was the boy's age and not once did he raise it against a human being wanting to harm them. You don't know that as fact. All we know is that at least two of his previous relationships with women involved violence. That is the difference in this father that respected and followed the rules taught to him by his family, and his son, who was determined to break them all.


imo

For all we know, this is exactly what could have been happening in his relationship with Tiffany and she was just a bit stronger than Erica or Eryn and decided she would take care of it herself...we just will not know the facts. I highly doubt that I am the only one who has this opinion that Tiffany is involved.

[Pena64]

Oh I was too. This looked like a very vacant boy. It absolutely broke my heart:sad: I actually think after see these pictures, I felt the tug at my heart to do everything I can to help this child. I think he was let down by most adult figures in his life. IMO, that's why he loved his teacher so much.

I disagree, the boy let down all the people that loved him. IMO

[Pena64]

For all we know, this is exactly what could have been happening in his relationship with Tiffany and she was just a bit stronger than Erica or Eryn and decided she would take care of it herself...we just will not know the facts. I highly doubt that I am the only one who has this opinion that Tiffany is involved.

Hello, the boy did the killing, not the stepmom. Get your facts straight. IMO

[Pena64]

I personally take offense to people calling this young boy a "murderer". What he plead guilty to was negligent homicide, exactly what he was forced to confess to...that when he got home he found the bodies and in his 8 year-old mind thought he should keep them from suffering (something that he was taught from a few hunting trips that he was a part of). IMO homicide is minus the malice aforethought and, therefore, technically not murder.

The boy is not a murderer. He is a double murderer, IMO. I guess that makes him a serial killer, IMO.

[Pena64]

I absolutely agree :thumbsup:and that is the primary reason I'm here...to defend this boy from being further disgraced. I pray his mother doesn't read this site.

I wouldn't be surprized if she is the one doing most of the posting, IMO.

[Pena64]

No malice to the boy, but he shouldn't be loose on the streets. he belongs in some psych place (not jail) in my opinion. We don't need another murder down the road.

If he ever threatens to kill anyone in the future..I think everyone should take him seriously.

[TheItalian]

No malice to the boy, but he shouldn't be loose on the streets. he belongs in some psych place (not jail) in my opinion. We don't need another murder down the road.

If he ever threatens to kill anyone in the future..I think everyone should take him seriously.

ITA. In my opinion the boy should not be LOOSE. What message does this send to other potential murderers, that if they are young they can get away with it?

[sdn8tv]

The boy is not a murderer. He is a double murderer, IMO. I guess that makes him a serial killer, IMO.
You need to get your facts straight.
Serial Killer - definition
someone who murders more than three victims one at a time in a relatively short interval

[sdn8tv]

I wouldn't be surprized if she is the one doing most of the posting, IMO.

Yes Ms. Pena I am the one doing most of the posting for the reason's stated above. However, I'm posting under one name everytime...
sdn8tv.
It is actually against the rules of this board to accuse another poster of being another poster.

[sdn8tv]

Hello, the boy did the killing, not the stepmom. Get your facts straight. IMO

I have my facts straight, thank you. This post is clearly my opinion as stated. I believe that Tiffany is involved, what part of that is hard to understand?

[GentleBreeze]

For all we know, this is exactly what could have been happening in his relationship with Tiffany and she was just a bit stronger than Erica or Eryn and decided she would take care of it herself...we just will not know the facts. I highly doubt that I am the only one who has this opinion that Tiffany is involved.

Oh I think it is a pretty good bet he never did because if he did the media would have been all over it like white on rice.

Was he charged and convicted with domestic violence?

Talking about facts, there are none that Tiffany had one thing to do with these cruel unfeeling murders. I think this boy is the only one that does not have an alibi and cannot account for his 3 hour gap of time.

IMO, there WAS something wrong in that family and it was this boy. I think something is very wrong with him and he is disconnected and is unable to love or care about others. IMO, this is what Eryn dumped in Vinnie's life to deal with when she walked out and left her very young son behind and VR paid the ultimate price for the disconnect that she created.


imoo

[mamaangie]

How on earth can an 8 year old child sign on a plea deal when he was found incompetent? Oh, I know, the same way he was coerced into confessing! :rolleyes:

definition coerce: to make somebody do something against his/her will by using force or threats.

hmmm.

I dont understand it either.:confused:

[sdn8tv]

No malice to the boy, but he shouldn't be loose on the streets. he belongs in some psych place (not jail) in my opinion. We don't need another murder down the road.

If he ever threatens to kill anyone in the future..I think everyone should take him seriously.

Malice
desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.

Frankly, that's all you have done is be hostile to this boy.

Since you know this boy, Aren't you this list bit curious or concerned WHY this boy did this? Who put him up to it, Who told him that he would go to juvie to 2-3 days?

[GentleBreeze]

ITA. In my opinion the boy should not be LOOSE. What message does this send to other potential murderers, that if they are young they can get away with it?

ITA! This case certainly showed that the age of a defendant can define whether the murder victims will ever get their due justice or justice denied.

Now instead of these teens murdering their parents, I guess they will try to talk their younger siblings into doing it, telling them they won't get any time for it.:sad:

imoo

[sdn8tv]

Oh I think it is a pretty good bet he never did because if he did the media would have been all over it like white on riceB] There's a reason why witness were asked by family membes not to talk about their pasts, unfortunatley we will not know it.
[B]Was he charged and convicted with domestic violence? GB, I'm pretty sure you know how many domestic violence cases go unreported everdday. Millions upon millions.
Talking about facts, I did not state this as fact, I believe that she is involved. there are none that Tiffany had one thing to do with these cruel unfeeling murders. I think this boy is the only one that does not have an alibi and cannot account for his 3 hour gap of time.

IMO, there WAS something wrong in that family and it was this boy. I think something is very wrong with him and he is disconnected and is unable to love or care about others. IMO, this is what Eryn dumped in Vinnie's life How do we know she dumped him? How do we know he didn't say, you want a divorce go, but you leave my son here. We don't and we don't know she dumped him. to deal with when she walked out and left her very young son behind and VR paid the ultimate price for the disconnect that she created.

imoo

So are we attacking Eryn in retilation for me believing Tiffany is involved?

[TheItalian]

I have my facts straight, thank you. This post is clearly my opinion as stated. I believe that Tiffany is involved, what part of that is hard to understand?

Isn't it against the rules to blame someone else, when there is NO PROOF.

TR had an airtight alibi. CR had no alibi. TR didn't confess. CR confessed. TR didn't plead guilty. CR did plead guilty. The police have ruled out TR. The police believe CR was responsible. So get your facts straight.

IMO

[TheItalian]

You need to get your facts straight.
Serial Killer - definition
someone who murders more than three victims one at a time in a relatively short interval

So Pena64 is wrong, CR is a double murderer, not a serial killer. He needs to kill one more person to make that elite group. Or had TR been home, he could have killed all three. IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

So are we attacking Eryn in retilation for me believing Tiffany is involved?

I don't know what you are talking about?:confused:

I have always felt that Eryn was at the root of the problem pertaining to this boy.

You have every right in the world to believe as you wish to believe. Why would it bother me that you think that Tiffany is involved? I mean both Tanya and Tiffany have been accused one way or the other for a very long time now.

My opinion about Eryn has not changed. I have no doubt she loves her son. Even though I do think she was the main factor that helped to create the boy into what he became, I feel very sorry for her. I am sure she has a lot of regret and maybe a lot of guilt and her long road ahead is a hard one that I don't think most would envy.

All I know is IMO, Tiffany had absolutely nothing to do with this. Also IMO the boy is the sole shooter, period.

imo

[wolfi_2]

ITA! This case certainly showed that the age of a defendant can define whether the murder victims will ever get their due justice or justice denied.

Now instead of these teens murdering their parents, I guess they will try to talk their younger siblings into doing it, telling them they won't get any time for it.:sad:

imoo

If this would be true, Europe would be full of murdering teen's or children. Just in case CR did it here in Germany (if he did it), He would never be tried for it because of his age, no charge would be held until he is 14. he would be never tried as adult. we don't waste any money here for competence to stand trial evaluations', because we know children are not competent! for the whole rest of the civilized world there is a minimum age to be tried. pending from the age of 12 to 16 in a few Scandinavian countries. Here we also don't try children as adult because we accept children aren't adult's. For example the school shootings in Germany where 15 people are killed, The killer a 17 year old boy would be tried as juvenile. His dad will definitely be charged for leaving the weapon available for the boy, he can face a maximum charge of five years or a high fine. he lost always all his weapons and weapon license.

[sdn8tv]

Isn't it against the rules to blame someone else, when there is NO PROOF. Actually it is not, that is why it is a discussion board of opinion of this case. It is not a discussion board of accusing other people of making up different names in which to post with.
TR had an airtight alibi. CR had no alibi. TR didn't confess. CR confessed. TR didn't plead guilty. CR did plead guilty. The police have ruled out TR. The police believe CR was responsible. So get your facts straight.

IMO

As I stated...I "BELIEVE" Tiffany is involved. This is my personal opinion and until I see proof she is NOT involved then my opinion remains the same.

How is this any different when GB says until they show her proof that the gun was shot by someone else, she will believe what she wants. (no argument with you on this GB, just making a point)

So are only a select few entitled to their opinion?

I'm entitled to mine and if I see something that stands out and I can provide documentation to cause other posters to question that opinion that's what I'm going to do...nothing wrong with that.

Why do you feel the need to attack me? I'm not attacking anyone.

[Pena64]

Malice
desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy.

Frankly, that's all you have done is be hostile to this boy.

Since you know this boy, Aren't you this list bit curious or concerned WHY this boy did this? Who put him up to it, Who told him that he would go to juvie to 2-3 days?

Your post is funny. No one put the boy up to it. What's your proof?
IMO, the boy is defective or a psycopath. The parents were good parents. The boy was a bad seed IMO. Sometimes kids are defective with no explanation except a history of mental illness.

Why are you hostile to the parents? At least the boy pled guilty.

[Pena64]

So are we attacking Eryn in retilation for me believing Tiffany is involved?

you're the one that loves to attack innocent people like the stepmom. Newsflash! The boy pled guilty.

[Pena64]

As I stated...I "BELIEVE" Tiffany is involved. This is my personal opinion and until I see proof she is NOT involved then my opinion remains the same.

How is this any different when GB says until they show her proof that the gun was shot by someone else, she will believe what she wants. (no argument with you on this GB, just making a point)

So are only a select few entitled to their opinion?

I'm entitled to mine and if I see something that stands out and I can provide documentation to cause other posters to question that opinion that's what I'm going to do...nothing wrong with that.

Why do you feel the need to attack me? I'm not attacking anyone.

Anyone is entitled to their own opinion, even relatives of CR and idiots. I'm not saying you're one. But the evidence points to CR, he pled guilty, he confessed, it was his gun, his fingerprints, his death threats, etc., etc., etc.

[sdn8tv]

I don't know what you are talking about?:confused:
I have always felt that Eryn was at the root of the problem pertaining to this boy.

You have every right in the world to believe as you wish to believe. Why would it bother me that you think that Tiffany is involved? I mean both Tanya and Tiffany have been accused one way or the other for a very long time now.

My opinion about Eryn has not changed. I have no doubt she loves her son. Even though I do think she was the main factor that helped to create the boy into what he became, I feel very sorry for her. I am sure she has a lot of regret and maybe a lot of guilt and her long road ahead is a hard one that I don't think most would envy.

All I know is IMO, Tiffany had absolutely nothing to do with this. Also IMO the boy is the sole shooter, period.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by the last cmment. I understood that you meant Eryn was to blame because she left CR with Vincent. I'm sorry.

imo

Whew...something we agree on...we both feel sorry for Eryn.

[Pena64]

And what does involved mean? That she shot her husband?

You leave a lot of innuendo, and vague comments with no proof. Were her fingerprints on the gun? Did she make 4 death threats? Was it her gun? Did she have an alibi? What did she have to gain? Did police believe she did it? Was she seen or heard at the scene?

YOU HAVE NO PROOF...JUST sloppy innuendo that you believe she is involved. IMO you are trying to make CR look good, when he is the double murderer. IMO

[TheItalian]

I don't know what you are talking about?:confused:

I have always felt that Eryn was at the root of the problem pertaining to this boy.

You have every right in the world to believe as you wish to believe. Why would it bother me that you think that Tiffany is involved? I mean both Tanya and Tiffany have been accused one way or the other for a very long time now.

My opinion about Eryn has not changed. I have no doubt she loves her son. Even though I do think she was the main factor that helped to create the boy into what he became, I feel very sorry for her. I am sure she has a lot of regret and maybe a lot of guilt and her long road ahead is a hard one that I don't think most would envy.

All I know is IMO, Tiffany had absolutely nothing to do with this. Also IMO the boy is the sole shooter, period.

imo

I agree. This is just posters trying to put a pled guilty killer in a GOOD LIGHT. The boy was the sole shooter.

I did not know that the boy made 4 death threats to his parents. That's a lot of DEATH THREATS!

Well, at least he was successful, IMO.

[wolfi_2]

And what does involved mean? That she shot her husband?

You leave a lot of innuendo, and vague comments with no proof. Were her fingerprints on the gun? Did she make 4 death threats? Was it her gun? Did she have an alibi? What did she have to gain? Did police believe she did it? Was she seen or heard at the scene?

YOU HAVE NO PROOF...JUST sloppy innuendo that you believe she is involved. IMO you are trying to make CR look good, when he is the double murderer. IMO

I think they don't take her fingerprint's, so they didn't prove it. For good police work all who are living in a house where a murdering take place are suspect's. IMO

[sdn8tv]

Your post is funny. No one put the boy up to it. What's your proof?
IMO, the boy is defective or a psycopath. The parents were good parents. The boy was a bad seed IMO. Sometimes kids are defective with no explanation except a history of mental illness.

Why are you hostile to the parents? At least the boy pled guilty.

I'm not hostile to the parents. IN MY OPINION...AGAIN, Tiffany is involved. I DO NOT need proof for my OPINION.

On the other hand, I have provided A LOT of proof that at a minimum the parents had issues. Major issue, they allowed a convicted drug dealer with a violent past to be around their child.

[TheItalian]

I think they don't take her fingerprint's, so they didn't prove it. For good police work all who are living in a house where a murdering take place are suspect's. IMO

Maybe they did take her prints. Maybe they did prove it. IMO

Also maybe the boy pled guilty. Maybe the boy confessed. Maybe it was the boy's gun?

[sdn8tv]

And what does involved mean? That she shot her husband?

You leave a lot of innuendo, and vague comments with no proof. Were her fingerprints on the gun? No, were his? Did she make 4 death threats? Was it her gun? Did she have an alibi? What did she have to gain? Did police believe she did it? Was she seen or heard at the scene?

YOU HAVE NO PROOF...JUST sloppy innuendo that you believe she is involved. IMO you are trying to make CR look good, Nope...just trying to make him look 9 years old. when he is the double murderer. IMO
Sorry but that's not what he plead guilty to.

My comments ar above.

[tottenwess]

I agree. This is just posters trying to put a pled guilty killer in a GOOD LIGHT. The boy was the sole shooter.

I did not know that the boy made 4 death threats to his parents. That's a lot of DEATH THREATS!

Well, at least he was successful, IMO.


Where did you get 4 death threats from???

[Pena64]

Maybe they did take her prints. Maybe they did prove it. IMO

Also maybe the boy pled guilty. Maybe the boy confessed. Maybe it was the boy's gun?

You're right! It's the "blame the Victims" card. Blame VR for being a bad dad. Blame Tim for having an affair and drug lords. Blame the stepmom. Blame everyone but the real double killer, CR.

I'm still upset that CR is LOOSE and not in a mental facility. IMO

[sdn8tv]

And what does involved mean? That she shot her husband?

You leave a lot of innuendo, and vague comments with no proof. Were her fingerprints on the gun? Did she make 4 death threats? Was it her gun? Did she have an alibi? What did she have to gain? Did police believe she did it? Was she seen or heard at the scene?

YOU HAVE NO PROOF...JUST sloppy innuendo that you believe she is involved. IMO you are trying to make CR look good, when he is the double murderer. IMO

Can you please provide the documentation of the "FOUR" death threats? If you are posting something as fact, you must provide the proof.

[Pena64]

Where did you get 4 death threats from???

Didnt he threaten at the reunion, to an uncle hunting, and to 2 different boys at school? And who knows how many more?

My opinion.

[sdn8tv]

You're right! It's the "blame the Victims" card. Blame VR for being a bad dad. Blame Tim for having an affair and drug lords. Blame the stepmom. Blame everyone but the real double killer, CR.
I'm still upset that CR is LOOSE and not in a mental facility. IMO

Double Killer? Where's the conviction?

[Pena64]

Can you please provide the documentation of the "FOUR" death threats? If you are posting something as fact, you must provide the proof.

Even one death threat is too many. Where's your documentation of Tiffany being "INVOLVED"?

[tottenwess]

And what does involved mean? That she shot her husband?

You leave a lot of innuendo, and vague comments with no proof. Were her fingerprints on the gun? Did she make 4 death threats? Was it her gun? Did she have an alibi? What did she have to gain? Did police believe she did it? Was she seen or heard at the scene?

YOU HAVE NO PROOF...JUST sloppy innuendo that you believe she is involved. IMO you are trying to make CR look good, when he is the double murderer. IMO
Oh I see where the rumor of 4 death threats came from!!!!I thought on this Message Board we had to post facts....If I wanted fiction I would go to my local library.
Oh yeah Pena....Fact, he didn't plea guilty to double murder!

[sdn8tv]

Didnt he threaten at the reunion, to an uncle hunting, and to 2 different boys at school? And who knows how many more?

My opinion.

I don't know, did he? Where's your proof? I can provide proof, in fact I already have that the comments he allegedly made to the boys at school, once they were interviewd by LE they denied any knowledge of that. It's in the DPS report.

[TheItalian]

Way too many death threats.

I'ld also like to know what "involved" means.

I could say I think anyone is "involved". But that means diddly. IMO

[sdn8tv]

Even one death threat is too many. Where's your documentation of Tiffany being "INVOLVED"?

As I have stated, it is my belief that Tiffany is invovled? Why is that so hard to understand. I BELIEVE TIFFANY IS INVOLVED.

[TheItalian]

Oh I see where the rumor of 4 death threats came from!!!!I thought on this Message Board we had to post facts....If I wanted fiction I would go to my local library.
Oh yeah Pena....Fact, he didn't plea guilty to double murder!


He didn't plead innocent. That's a fact! He did confess. That's a fact.

IMO

[sdn8tv]

Way too many death threats.

I'ld also like to know what "involved" means.

I could say I think anyone is "involved". But that means diddly. IMO
try dictionary.com

[wolfi_2]

Oh I see where the rumor of 4 death threats came from!!!!I thought on this Message Board we had to post facts....If I wanted fiction I would go to my local library.
Oh yeah Pena....Fact, he didn't plea guilty to double murder!


I recognize on this board most of all who don't believe CR did it offering fact's the opposite offer opinions with a very few exceptions and this is my opinion.

[sdn8tv]

He didn't plead innocent. That's a fact! He did confess. That's a fact.

IMO

It is also a fact that the confession was illegally obtained and not to be submitted as evidence in the court.
He plead guilty to one count of negligent homicide...not two count of pre-mediated murder

[sdn8tv]

I recognize on this board most of all who don't believe CR did it offering fact's the opposite offer opinions with a very few exceptions and this is my opinion.


Great post Wolfi...

[TheItalian]

It is also a fact that the confession was illegally obtained and not to be submitted as evidence in the court.
He plead guilty to one count of negligent homicide...not two count of pre-mediated murder

It's good to see you acknowledge the boy is guilty. imo

[sdn8tv]

It's good to see you acknowledge the boy is guilty. imo

No, I acknowledge that a nine year old boy was told that he could stay home with his mother and not go back to juvie if he plead.

[sdn8tv]

Even one death threat is too many. Where's your documentation of Tiffany being "INVOLVED"?

Until I have documentation or proof that she is involved all I can say is that I BELIEVE she is involved.

You ar entitled to your beliefs as well.

[Pena64]

It's good to see you acknowledge the boy is guilty. imo

Great Post Italian!

[sdn8tv]

Anyone is entitled to their own opinion, even relatives of CR and idiots. I'm not saying you're one. But the evidence points to CR, he pled guilty, he confessed, it was his gun, his fingerprints, his death threats, etc., etc., etc.


What evidence points to CR? Do you think if all the evidence pointed to CR that he would be released to his mother? Do you believe if all the evidence pointed to CR that the prosecution would not have pushed this to the wall? Do you believe that if all the evidence pointed to CR that the prosecution wouldn't want to bring this to trial so that there would be no doubt whatsoever?

[TheItalian]

I love people who try blaming the victims, like the stepmom. Lets blame Vince and Tim for getting shot! They should have moved out of the way when the boy was shooting them. JMHO.

[Pena64]

I have stated numerous times that I have no proof that she is involved, however I have provided a load of proof of other questionable (at least) activities that have occured in that family.

On the otherhand, where is your proof?

His claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. The famous 2 1/2 hour walk where no neighbors saw him.

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop.

The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver.

The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Box of shells nearby.

The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable.

His own mother said he changed recently.

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub.

Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent.

He was misbehaving in school

Grounded recently

Spanked recently

Very obviously angry over it, he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard.

Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his.

Confessed to police.

Changing plea to guilty.

and much more that hasn't been released IMO.

[tottenwess]

I love people who try blaming the victims, like the stepmom. Lets blame Vince and Tim for getting shot! They should have moved out of the way when the boy was shooting them. JMHO.

Hmmm...."when the boy was shooting them". How do you explain the entrance wounds being at a downward angle? Was the boy wearing heels, or perhaps he was on stilts while shooting.

[wolfi_2]

he had to less GSR on his clothes to be the shooter IMO

[Pena64]

he had to less GSR on his clothes to be the shooter IMO

Better to not have GSR, than have GSR in my opinion. That only helps confirm he was the killer.

[sdn8tv]

So what your saying is, in the process of shooting two men multiple times he is also carrying a chair around with him?

And a box of bullets, and changed into his underwear so he wouldn't get blood on his clothes (this was previously posted).

I looked at my son's hands this morning while he was sleeping and just couldn't figure out how an 8 year old could do this????

[TheItalian]

And a box of bullets, and changed into his underwear so he wouldn't get blood on his clothes (this was previously posted).

I looked at my son's hands this morning while he was sleeping and just couldn't figure out how an 8 year old could do this????

8 year olds can kill. IMO he did it.

You don't believe CR could do it with evidence, but you believe the stepmom was INVOLVED with as you say no evidence and an airtight alibi, and the police excluded her. You have a funny way of looking at things. IMO

[wolfi_2]

Really...Or maybe it was the GSR when he killed the two men on 11-5th? IMO.

again, the GSR on his clothes was too less being the shooter

[Pena64]

again, the GSR on his clothes was too less being the shooter

I disagree. It makes him the shooter. Any amount makes him the shooter. IMO.

[wolfi_2]

I disagree. It makes him the shooter. Any amount makes him the shooter. IMO.

I disagree ! they found only a very few particles on his clothes, if he was the shooter there must be thousand of particles.

[TheItalian]

I disagree. It makes him the shooter. Any amount makes him the shooter. IMO.

Some posters think they are forensics experts.

Any GSR in itself points to CR's guilt.

[Pena64]

Some posters think they are forensics experts.

Any GSR in itself points to CR's guilt.

You're 100% correct! The GSR proves the boy was "INVOLVED" IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Really...Or maybe it was the GSR when he killed the two men on 11-5th? IMO.

I wish this DA would have been as direct as the DA in the PA 11 year old boy's case.

He just says what he has to say and moves on.

""I have a shotgun blast to the back of the head that's consistent with a 20-gauge shotgun shell, I have a 20-gauge youth-model in his room which smells like it's recently fired and he's got gun residue on him." Bongivengo said."

He couldn't have gone hunting recently. That prior weekend he was gone with his bio mom.

Coincidence that even a day later he has GSR? IMO, no.

imo

[wolfi_2]

Some posters think they are forensics experts.

Any GSR in itself points to CR's guilt.


I unfortunately haven't the time to explain it to you now, but I can do it tomorrow if you like, it's pure physic.

[TheItalian]

I wish this DA would have been as direct as the DA in the PA 11 year old boy's case.

He just says what he has to say and moves on.

""I have a shotgun blast to the back of the head that's consistent with a 20-gauge shotgun shell, I have a 20-gauge youth-model in his room which smells like it's recently fired and he's got gun residue on him." Bongivengo said."

He couldn't have gone hunting recently. That prior weekend he was gone with his bio mom.

Coincidence that even a day later he has GSR? IMO, no.

imo

GB-it's good to see two sensible minds on this board that rely on fact instead of innuendo. That don't accuse victims by saying they believe they are "INVOLVED" but then say there is NO proof, and ignore any facts that point to the real killer. IMO.

[TheItalian]

I unfortunately haven't the time to explain it to you now, but I can do it tomorrow if you like, it's pure physic.

Physic or FIZZ-IC, or psychic?

[sdn8tv]

His claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. The famous 2 1/2 hour walk where no neighbors saw him.

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop. So the kid was playing with his dog or shooting his father?
The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver. I already provided documentation that this is not true.
The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Who put it there? Box of shells nearby. Where there's a gun there's ammo. this was a hunting family.
The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable. Proof? Documentation?

His own mother said he changed recently. Red Flag

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub. Triple hearsay, not validated. the little girls own father said he was sweet and he loved his little sister very much. In fact he never even witnessed CR throw a tantrum.
Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent. This doesn't make him a killer.
He was misbehaving in school Yet another red flag

Grounded recently

Spanked recently by his step mother

Very obviously angry over it, Is this your professional opoinion? he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Again, is this your professional opinion? Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard. An ear witness saw him walking away, or was it shooting his father or was it polaying in the yard with his dog...what was it?
Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his. of his what? Because the police report said he ran to a neighbor's house crying.

Confessed to police. Illegally - not submitted as evidence

Changing plea to guilty. of neglent homicide - one count

and much more that hasn't been released IMO. Like What


Again...
Can you provide at least the page numbers to this..

[GentleBreeze]

I disagree ! they found only a very few particles on his clothes, if he was the shooter there must be thousand of particles.

I have been following these kind of cases for almost 30 years. I have never heard of a defendant that had thousands of particles on their clothing. I have seen those convicted that did have GSR on their clothing though but it was a much smaller amount than the three dozen particles still found a day later after the crime when this boy had come in contact with many family members, during their grief stricken period, where I am sure many hugs were exchanged.

There may be thousands of particle in the air but they certainly do not all land on the shooter since the GSR is being expelled out of the long barrel away from the shooter.

IMO, it is the location of the GSR that is telling. They are in all the places they would be if he was the shooter. Not a person who just walked in afterward and got the GSR in general overall areas as it sifted through the air all around him.


imo

[sdn8tv]

Some posters think they are forensics experts.

Any GSR in itself points to CR's guilt. I disagree...it shows he was near GSR in those clothes.

[Pena64]

Originally Posted by sdn8tv
Until I have documentation or proof that she is involved all I can say is that I BELIEVE she is involved.

You ar entitled to your beliefs as well.
---------------------------------------


GB-what does this post mean????? No documentation or proof according to sdn8tv, yet she believes the stepmom is INVOLVED?
Sounds kind of out there, huh?

[Pena64]

I disagree...it shows he was near GSR in those clothes.

Yeah from the gun he fired at the two men multiple times, IMO.

[sdn8tv]

8 year olds can kill. IMO he did it.

You don't believe CR could do it with evidence, but you believe the stepmom was INVOLVED with as you say no evidence and an airtight alibi, and the police excluded her. You have a funny way of looking at things. IMO


You need to stop attacking. I have not attacked one person, just the opinions.

[wolfi_2]

Physic or FIZZ-IC, or psychic?



Physic, that's the thing with pure logic.

[sdn8tv]

Sdn8tv is INVOLVED in posting on this site.


Why are you attacking me?

[TheItalian]

You need to stop attacking. I have not attacked one person, just the opinions.

No one is attcking you. You need to apologize for saying that an innocent person is involved with NO PROOF. My opinion.

[sdn8tv]

GB-it's good to see two sensible minds on this board that rely on fact instead of innuendo. That don't accuse victims by saying they believe they are "INVOLVED" but then say there is NO proof, and ignore any facts that point to the real killer. IMO.

No, I'm not ignoring any evidence that point to the real killer, I just haven't seen any yet. What fact are you referring to?

[sdn8tv]

No one is attcking you. You need to apologize for saying that an innocent person is involved with NO PROOF. My opinion.

I don't need to apologize for anything I say here. How dare you tell me what I need to apologize for.

As someone else said her
Attack the post, not the poster.

[sdn8tv]

Originally Posted by sdn8tv
Until I have documentation or proof that she is involved all I can say is that I BELIEVE she is involved.

You ar entitled to your beliefs as well.
---------------------------------------


GB-what does this post mean????? No documentation or proof according to sdn8tv, yet she believes the stepmom is INVOLVED?
Sounds kind of out there, huh?


Now all the sudden GB can interpret my posts? That is what is kind of out there? And where did this come from.

How many times are we going to beat the dead horse?

[TheItalian]

GB orPena--what is your opinion of the 2 1/2 hour walk with no witnesses seeing the boy, where he said he walked around the block 10 times, with his backpack, and not tending to the needs of his dog? With wind gusts up to 35mph on a cold day in November?
Does that sound logical to you?

JMO, buut it sounds like one in a many series of lies by the boy?

[TheItalian]

I agree with coldwater...let's tone it down.

[tottenwess]

I don't understand why some people on this board cannot engage in a decent conversation about the evidence; they would rather just spew at the mouth about the boy being guilty and not give any enlightening facts about how they reached that conclusion.

[tottenwess]

GB orPena--what is your opinion of the 2 1/2 hour walk with no witnesses seeing the boy, where he said he walked around the block 10 times, with his backpack, and not tending to the needs of his dog? With wind gusts up to 35mph on a cold day in November?
Does that sound logical to you?

JMO, buut it sounds like one in a many series of lies by the boy?

I was under the impression that there is a big field near the house...wouldn't it be easy for a child to go undetected.
I'm not sure where you are going with wind gusts...am I missing something?

[mrrogers]

It is true and what I observed. The boy was a braggart, and a bully, plain and simple. I'm a Pena...I'll turn it back on you...it seems sdn8tv, Columbo, Childs voice, are you Eryn posting under all these identities?
well heres a news flash eryn doesnt even have internet access!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but ya know we really dont care who you are what irritates me and im sure the rest of bloggers is the nasty vile comments you have about eryn and cr. its like i said last nite in the dps investigation there are many who claim in interviews exactly the opposite of what you say.
http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com
take ten minutes and sign up to get the documents from the investigation by dps and other your opnion is definetly in the minority
im not particularly impressed who you claims to be is that supposed to mean something ?

[GentleBreeze]

The Italian,

I just do not believe his story of walking around the block over 2.5 hours. That is a very very long time on a very blustery day and from what I remember he didn't have his jacket on when he arrived back at the scene.

It is obvious that the homes in that area are wide open lots. It just makes no logical sense imo that someone did not see him, even once, during that time and in 2.5 hours he would have had to go around the block more than the 10 or 11 times he said he did. The only reasonable explanation imo is he just went on home and that would explain why no one saw him, even though there were people coming and going in the neighborhood. The story of calling to Tim from three houses away, when all he could have seen was Tim's empty truck sitting there in the driveway, also makes no logical sense to me. I think he told that story to cover for Tanya hearing him call out to Vinnie.

Sdn8tv,

So if you think Tiffany is involved then what would have been her motive.

She wasn't pregnant and she didn't have to marry Vinnie. This was a want to wedding,

She certainly did not gain monetarily for she seems to be in dire need of financial help with Vinnie's funeral costing 10-11K and other bills coming due. She already own her home.

So why would she harm the man she had waited 2 years to wed and then be involved in his murder in 2 months after then?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I was under the impression that there is a big field near the house...wouldn't it be easy for a child to go undetected.
I'm not sure where you are going with wind gusts...am I missing something?

He said that he walked around the block 10 or 11 times.

He even drew them a detailed map of where he walked.

I think they are talking about the weather. It was in the 50s that day with wind gust up to 33 mph, iirc.

imo

[muska]

Is that appeals court decision online. I'd like to read it.

IF a person is not at the bind over age when the crime was committed they can't simply do it when he turns 15. I never heard of that.


This may be what you were asking for; I found it in the links while looking for something else. Hope it helps.

http://www.cofad1.state.az.us/memod/SA/SA080294.pdf

[tottenwess]

I have been following these kind of cases for almost 30 years. I have never heard of a defendant that had thousands of particles on their clothing. I have seen those convicted that did have GSR on their clothing though but it was a much smaller amount than the three dozen particles still found a day later after the crime when this boy had come in contact with many family members, during their grief stricken period, where I am sure many hugs were exchanged.

There may be thousands of particle in the air but they certainly do not all land on the shooter since the GSR is being expelled out of the long barrel away from the shooter.

IMO, it is the location of the GSR that is telling. They are in all the places they would be if he was the shooter. Not a person who just walked in afterward and got the GSR in general overall areas as it sifted through the air all around him.


imo

But, what the boy plead to was negligent homicide...his story being that he came home, found the bodies, and kept them from suffering. That would put the right amount GSR in the right areas, exactly according to his narrative.

[TheItalian]

The Italian,

I just do not believe his story of walking around the block over 2.5 hours. That is a very very long time on a very blustery day and from what I remember he didn't have his jacket on when he arrived back at the scene.

It is obvious that the homes in that area are wide open lots. It just makes no logical sense imo that someone did not see him, even once, during that time and in 2.5 hours he would have had to go around the block more than the 10 or 11 times he said he did. The only reasonable explanation imo is he just went on home and that would explain why no one saw him, even though there were people coming and going in the neighborhood. The story of calling to Tim from three houses away, when all he could have seen was Tim's empty truck sitting there in the driveway, also makes no logical sense to me. I think he told that story to cover for Tanya hearing him call out to Vinnie.

Sdn8tv,

So if you think Tiffany is involved then what would have been her motive.

She wasn't pregnant and she didn't have to marry Vinnie. This was a want to wedding,

She certainly did not gain monetarily for she seems to be in dire need of financial help with Vinnie's funeral costing 10-11K and other bills coming due. She already own her home.

So why would she harm the man she had waited 2 years to wed and then be involved in his murder in 2 months after then?

imo

GB--If I was an 8 year old, I'ld want to go home and play with my dog and watch tv.

If I thought I was going to be in trouble, I would clean the house or do my homework to mitigate my parents for being mad at me for what I did wrong at school. I'ld do something special like wash the dishes, take out the trash, clean up the house since I have 2 1/2 hours to make a good impression. That amount of time is longer than most full link movies.

I certainly wouldn't walk around the block 2 1/2 hours so my parents could say, did you do your homework? and I'ld be in more trouble for not doing anything

Plus when I was a kid I din't want to be out in the cold by myself. I would play with a neighbor kid. Logically this makes no sense to me.

My opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Oops, I made a boo boo.

"told that story to cover for Tanya hearing him call out to Vinnie."

S/B

"told that story to cover for Tanya hearing him call out to TIM.

[GentleBreeze]

GB--If I was an 8 year old, I'ld want to go home and play with my dog and watch tv.

If I thought I was going to be in trouble, I would clean the house or do my homework to mitigate my parents for being mad at me for what I did wrong at school. I'ld do something special like wash the dishes, take out the trash, clean up the house since I have 2 1/2 hours to make a good impression. That amount of time is longer than most full link movies.

I certainly wouldn't walk around the block 2 1/2 hours so my parents could say, did you do your homework? and I'ld be in more trouble for not doing anything

Plus when I was a kid I didn't want to be out in the cold by myself. I would play with a neighbor kid. Logically this makes no sense to me.

My opinion

That is another strange thing. He was to have many friends in the neighborhood. If he was sneaking out and going out when his parents weren't home then why not go play at one of their houses or walk with them or stand in their yard and talk with them or play ball or something?:confused: And would he let Nellie stay locked up for all those extra hours and not let her out?

imo

[TheItalian]

The Italian,

I just do not believe his story of walking around the block over 2.5 hours. That is a very very long time on a very blustery day and from what I remember he didn't have his jacket on when he arrived back at the scene.

It is obvious that the homes in that area are wide open lots. It just makes no logical sense imo that someone did not see him, even once, during that time and in 2.5 hours he would have had to go around the block more than the 10 or 11 times he said he did. The only reasonable explanation imo is he just went on home and that would explain why no one saw him, even though there were people coming and going in the neighborhood. The story of calling to Tim from three houses away, when all he could have seen was Tim's empty truck sitting there in the driveway, also makes no logical sense to me. I think he told that story to cover for Tanya hearing him call out to Vinnie.

Sdn8tv,

So if you think Tiffany is involved then what would have been her motive.

She wasn't pregnant and she didn't have to marry Vinnie. This was a want to wedding,

She certainly did not gain monetarily for she seems to be in dire need of financial help with Vinnie's funeral costing 10-11K and other bills coming due. She already own her home.

So why would she harm the man she had waited 2 years to wed and then be involved in his murder in 2 months after then?

imo

On the Tiffany part, it makes no sense. Why would she wait all this time to marry VR, prepare for marriage in the church, get the required church marriage counselling if she didnt love Vince. They had a big wedding and invited practically the whole town. She had nothing to gain by killing him, and everything to lose. I agree, any speculation she did it is pure nonsense. My opinion.

[TheItalian]

That is another strange thing. He was to have many friends in the neighborhood. If he was sneaking out and going out when his parents weren't home then why not go play at one of their houses or walk with them or stand in their yard and talk with them or play ball or something?:confused: And would he let Nellie stay locked up for all those extra hours and not let her out?

imo

My experience is that little boys love to play with other little boys. I can't imagine CR not talking to one of his friends, and playing, even if he knew he was going to get into trouble. If it were me and I was 8, I'ld play with another boy if I didn't want to go home. If it were me and I was 8, I'ld take my dog out for a walk and play. There is no way I'ld walk for 2 1/2 hours around the block. It just doesn't make sense. And to me it's unimaginable that I wouldn't have spotted someone and told the police I saw so and so as part of my story. And it's unimaginable to me that noone spotted CR. JMO.

[TheItalian]

That is another strange thing. He was to have many friends in the neighborhood. If he was sneaking out and going out when his parents weren't home then why not go play at one of their houses or walk with them or stand in their yard and talk with them or play ball or something?:confused: And would he let Nellie stay locked up for all those extra hours and not let her out?

imo

It also seems to me the boy would want to let the dog out to go to bathroom. I think I would be upset, if I was the boy's parent and he didn't let the dog out, letting the dog pee or poop in the house? That makes no sense. And the weight of the backpack, 2 1/2 hours of carrying a backpack is cruel and unusual punishment. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to take that backpack off. I hated lugging those things around. They made me miserable. The story is totally unbelievable, IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

It also seems to me the boy would want to let the dog out to go to bathroom. I think I would be upset, if I was the boy's parent and he didn't let the dog out, letting the dog pee or poop in the house? That makes no sense. And the weight of the backpack, 2 1/2 hours of carrying a backpack is cruel and unusual punishment. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to take that backpack off. I hated lugging those things around. They made me miserable. The story is totally unbelievable, IMO.

And why was the bookpack found under the kitchen table?

Wouldn't he just drop it right at the front door when he saw Tim laying there? When did he have time to go to the kitchen and put it under the table if he was rushing up the stairs to find his dad?:confused:

None of it makes logical sense imo.

I have even wondered if when he first came home he wrote the "Our family" sheet of paper they found and that is why his bookpack was under the table because he used the table to write on.

imoo

[Pena64]

It also seems to me the boy would want to let the dog out to go to bathroom. I think I would be upset, if I was the boy's parent and he didn't let the dog out, letting the dog pee or poop in the house? That makes no sense. And the weight of the backpack, 2 1/2 hours of carrying a backpack is cruel and unusual punishment. When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to take that backpack off. I hated lugging those things around. They made me miserable. The story is totally unbelievable, IMO.

ITA. I can't see a boy walking around the block 2.5 hours carrying a backpack when its cold without him seeing anybody or anybody seeing him. IMO, that just can't happen.

[Pena64]

And why was the bookpack found under the kitchen table?

Wouldn't he just drop it right at the front door when he saw Tim laying there? When did he have time to go to the kitchen and put it under the table if he was rushing up the stairs to find his dad?:confused:

None of it makes logical sense imo.

I have even wondered if when he first came home he wrote the "Our family" sheet of paper they found and that is why his bookpack was under the table because he used the table to write on.

imoo

GB, I forgot about the backpack under the kitchen table. That even makes the story even less credible. If it was me and I saw Tim on the ground, I'ld drop the backpack, not carefully put it under a kitchen table. I agree GB. The story can't be valid. It has to be all made up. IMO.

[Jay]

This may be what you were asking for; I found it in the links while looking for something else. Hope it helps.

http://www.cofad1.state.az.us/memod/SA/SA080294.pdf


Thank you for the case link. I appreciate it.

This has to do with a competency hearing, not necessarily waiting until a juvenile reaches an adult bind over age to try them though.

As I posted before, it does appear AZ permits a "discretionary" bind over at a "bare minimum" of age 8.

Say the minimum bind over was 10, they can't wait until then and bind/transfer him to adult court as he was 8 when he committed the crimes.

[GentleBreeze]

Wasn't Nicole at the house on that day? IIRC, Nicole was asked to be at the house to wait for CR. No one seems to know what time she arrived there, what she did while she was there and what time she left. We don't know if she walked there, got dropped off there, drove her own vehicle or rode a bike...IIRC, Nicole left BEFORE CR arrived home.

CR had no way of knowing Nicole was going to be there that day awaiting his arrival. I believe CR - he hopped off the bus and strolled around. If CR had gone home as expected, he would have found Nicole there....I believe the plan some people think he had in his mind to kill his father would have been ruined with her presence. If CR was he!! bent on his big "plan" - he could have shot Nicole too...Bottom line for me..the boy was telling the truth from the beginning but it wasn't good enough because after all..."Tanya heard him calling Tim"....:rolleyes: and IMO, Avila & Neckel did not know all the details (where the devil is) when they "interviewed him as a witness".

I really hope Melnick had the sense to have his Detectives question Nicole before he gave his notice. The shooter(s) could have been watching the house or perhaps Nicole passed by them on her way to the house or when she left.:wink:

Well I think she did come there and waited and I think he was already in the house and heard her and hid. She would not go looking for him in the closets because she would think he wasn't there yet.

I would think she had her vehicle since she had to be at the school for volleyball practice by 4 pm, iirc and they said she was there on time and did not leave until around 6. So she sure wasn't at the Romero home at 4:52 pm when Vinnie walked through his door.

And why didn't Nicole see this walking boy? If he was walking? She must not have seen him either coming to the house or when she left the house.

Since she would have to leave to be at the school by 4, I doubt it would have spoiled his plans. He would still have plenty of time to get his gun, bullets and lay in wait before 4:52 pm.

Didnt Nicole tell someone that the boy confessed to her that he planned this?

It is the details of his story that does not add up.

imo

[Pena64]

Well I think she did come there and waited and I think he was already in the house and heard her and hid. She would not go looking for him in the closets because she would think he wasn't there yet.

I would think she had her vehicle since she had to be at the school for volleyball practice by 4 pm, iirc and they said she was there on time and did not leave until around 6. So she sure wasn't at the Romero home at 4:52 pm when Vinnie walked through his door.

And why didn't Nicole see this walking boy? If he was walking? She must not have seen him either coming to the house or when she left the house.

Since she would have to leave to be at the school by 4, I doubt it would have spoiled his plans. He would still have plenty of time to get his gun, bullets and lay in wait before 4:52 pm.

Didnt Nicole tell someone that the boy confessed to her that he planned this?

It is the details of his story that does not add up.

imo

GB--clarify Nicole for me. Have we established she even went to the house, or that she was just asked to go to the house? To me she doesn't seem like the responsible type. This wasn't her kid or her responsibility. If she did go, this was probably a chore for her. Did she indicate if she went there or when she went there? I don't think she ever went to the house. If she went there she probably realized she had volleyball and just pooped out on CR. He still was probably there the whole 2 1/2 hours and Nicole probably never showed up, or left before he got off the bus. She seems to me to be that type of person. JMO. Would appreciate clarification from GB.

[Pena64]

GB, from what I gather her car was always broken down. If she did go, She may have had to leave well before CR's bus arrived if she walked. Anyway clarification is in order.

[Pena64]

I'm confused by some of the posts about the police department. The remarks about Mayberry RFD, etc., the police incompetence, the assumptions that witnesses weren't interviewed.

I believe DPS and city police went over everything with a fine tooth comb. After all they are professionals. They are trained. I'm convinced they did a good job. Posts bringing up their incompetence to me are wrong, or just a smokescreen for someone's agenda. JMO.

[muska]

Thank you for the case link. I appreciate it.

This has to do with a competency hearing, not necessarily waiting until a juvenile reaches an adult bind over age to try them though.

As I posted before, it does appear AZ permits a "discretionary" bind over at a "bare minimum" of age 8.

Say the minimum bind over was 10, they can't wait until then and bind/transfer him to adult court as he was 8 when he committed the crimes.

Jay - What do you think the likelihood is that this would ever have actually gone to adult court? My guess would be - exceedingly unlikely. You seem to know something about the legal system. What do you think? Thanks.

[Ninja108]

Rather sad update, the stepmother has been in a really bad car accident... and may be paralyzed if nothing else....

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/north ... vt6KQ.cspx

[Jay]

Jay - What do you think the likelihood is that this would ever have actually gone to adult court? My guess would be - exceedingly unlikely. You seem to know something about the legal system. What do you think? Thanks.


Since it appears the "discretionary" age was 8, there was a possibility under the law, but "highly improbable". It would be ripe for appeal.

No doubt if the state decided to bind him over as an adult, an Interlocutory appeal would be filed first by the defense to determine the legality of it even before trial. They would probably bypass the court of appeals and go directly to the state SC?


I did not forsee, at all, the state binding him over, he was just too young.

[wolfi_2]

about GSR

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18825274.300-why-we-cannot-rely-on-firearm-forensics.html?page=1

[GentleBreeze]

about GSR

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18825274.300-why-we-cannot-rely-on-firearm-forensics.html?page=1

I don't think contamination is an issue in this case. This quaint little town hadn't even had a murder in over a decade at least. I doubt seriously that the police officer had fired her gun recently and he did not ride in her police car, and the police are known to clean their weapons often and thoroughly even if not fired.

But thousands of particles do not land on the shooter nor do they have to. There will always be pro and con experts in every aspect of life but GSR is compelling evidence, which is front and center in a lot of State cases we have seen over the years while watching CTV/TruTV. That is why there are so many GSR experts in this country because they are in demand in state criminal trials often. It was entered in the Spector retrial case that is ongoing now.

And there again the boy got a break. Since they thought he was only a eye witness at the time they did not take his clothing until the next day. GSR can remain on clothing but it is also easily shed especially by moving around or the friction of the clothing rubbing up another person where it would transfer. I have no doubt as this tragedy unfolded he was comforted by many friends and family members. Had his clothing been taken at the time of the crime, as they should have been, the particles found would have been at a much higher level.

But they were still in locations where they would be if he was the shooter. His story of white smoke and walking into a cloud of white smoke does not add up. If that were the case the GSR would have been found in generalized areas all over his clothing as it swirled down around him not just on his sleeve, chest area of his shirt. Those are the areas that would be effected if he was holding the gun when it was fired, imo.



IMO

[mrrogers]

And some people don't think they need any forensic evidence. Rumor or emotion will do just fine. Let me see: we have facts and then we have what people here refer to as "opinions." Ok. Let's break it down. There are opinions based on emotion and then there are opinions based on facts. Better yet, there are opinions based on a thorough analysis of ALL facts, not just the "pick and choose" facts.

Some posters here like to rely on "eyewitness" testimony that was taken 3 weeks after the event. Problem with that kind of testimony is that enough time has elapsed for everyone to put their finger up in the air and see which way the wind is blowing. Not to mention that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Another example of poor reasoning: The "drug" angle has been discredited by many here simply by calling it the "San Carlos Drug Gang." Who said they had to be from San Carlos? Hmmm.

And another point: Do any of us know for a fact where Tanya Romans physically was when she spoke to Tim that day?

Remind me to remove myself from any jury with some of you on it.

Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/
if youd looked at the san carlos police files on the password apache site youd see hed been arrested for drugs before.rodriquez and neckle drove to san carlos and contaced the san carlos police. they were told by that entity that tim was considered a low level drug dealer
the statement in those files is he told his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him.
2.dont you think theyve checked the cell phone records for tanya if she hadnt been where she said she was wed know that
read the files and youll find out im not gonna type it out word for word for you. better yeat call the san carlos police and ask them about tim romans so you get first hand info
at one point in time he was stopped on the rez and marijana and meth was found in his car in a quantitiy that did not qualify as personal use, but was said to be packaged for sale in the opnion of the investigator all those are FACTS so go for it iirc youve been stuck on disproving this drug dealer angle before so all its gonna do is slow you down with your anlaysis of the garbage info that was posted on the site.
by gbs estimate theres 3-400 pages missing so theres really not enough of the type of evidence we need to form an accurate opinion
can you tell me how many people you know that carry a probation officers card on their person. that might tell you something about tim
tiffanys interveiw was missing eryns interview was missing not to mention what we dont and never will know about due to this censoring of the records. what we dont know or have been told could make a vast difference in what we find out and know
really i think its a waste of time and energy to mess with this when you dont have all the evidence. im more inclined to hope they give the boy a sentence of time serviced and expunge his record. i ve seen a guy that shot his wifes boyfriend sentenced to time served which had been 47 days in the killing.
any opionon you make is gonna be flawed by the lack of complete information. you are right about witnesses forgetting detals as time goes by but i think theyd remember whether they saw cr or not when you said its not like an intricate complex detail

[GentleBreeze]

wolfi_2 - Do you know if Nellie's fur was tested for trace evidence? If the boy obtained GSR from the air...what about the dog? Does GSR stick to dog fur?

I am not wolfi, of course, Donuts, but I wouldn't think they tested Nellie's fur.

I don't see how that could have advanced their case either way. She may have been in her kennel cage until he let her out when he left and not up at him nor the victims when this happened.

But if they did test then imo it would have been found in overall general areas not necessarily on the front of her based on how close she was.

I have never heard of GSR testing done on a dog. I heard of them being checked to see if they had any blood on them that belonged to the victim or a suspect.

That is an interesting thought though. Would it be in the same location or would it be more in general overall areas? Wish I knew the answer to that.

My hubby who has been hunting for most of his life says he finds the "white smoke" puzzling. He said he has never seen a .22 rifle when fired have a white smoke cloud coming out of the barrel. He said if it does it is so minimal that one doesn't even notice it with their naked eye.

Only 4 of the 10 shots were fired inside the home.

imoo

[mrrogers]

ITA. I can't see a boy walking around the block 2.5 hours carrying a backpack when its cold without him seeing anybody or anybody seeing him. IMO, that just can't happen.

i havent seen anywhere in the documents what the temperature was
theres a thing called coats that people wear in cases like that anyway.
i just cant see how anyone can say how heavy the packpack was.
obviously youve never been to st johns or you would be more inclined to believe he was not seen or saw anyone. its a berg. the biggest thing around is the county courthouse

[GentleBreeze]

Mr. Rogers,"im more inclined to hope they give the boy a sentence of time serviced and expunge his record. i ve seen a guy that shot his wifes boyfriend sentenced to time served which had been 47 days in the killing."


I think the McClean case and this one is like comparing apples to oranges.

If Eric McClean had shot his wife's lover repeatedly 6 times, he would never have been given the sentence he was given.

I don't think his record will be expunged but it will be sealed when he turns 18. Imo that will do him little good because people tend to have very long memories when it comes to someone who has killed someone and of course when they think of the one person he killed, they will also think of the other poor soul that lost his life too within minutes before Romans.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

i haven't seen anywhere in the documents what the temperature was
theres a thing called coats that people wear in cases like that anyway.
i just cant see how anyone can say how heavy the pack pack was.
obviously you've never been to st johns or you would be more inclined to believe he was not seen or saw anyone. its a berg. the biggest thing around is the county courthouse

My goodness, mrrogers over 4000 people live there. You think that everyone in the community for that strangely long over 2.5 hour walk never ventured out of their homes? Came home from work? Came back from picking their kids up from school or from sports practice? So you think that everyone of those kids that got off the bus didn't go outside? Just this one boy?

I think you are wrong, in the witness statements people were coming and going from that very wide open neighborhood. No one saw him because he wasn't on the street walking in broad daylight imo.


They mentioned nothing about him having a jacket on when LE arrived. He had a black shirt and dark jeans on. Why carry a book bag around the block a gazillion times? Why not go let Nellie out so she can go around the block ad nauseaum too. After all Tiffany and Vinnie had been at work all day. Why wouldn't he want to get his puppy so she could go with him? Neighbors said that they would see him often walking his puppy? Why didn't he do that.............on that particular day?

It is strange to me that in all that 2.5 hour time he wasn't seen yet within 2 minutes of the gunshots being heard he WAS seen, petting Nellie and walking AWAY from the house.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

mrrogers,

I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here. My point was specifically that there are plenty of facts, available to us, that point in a number of directions. As you say, TR has a rather recent conviction for drugs--however, some posters try to diminish that record by referring to a "San Carlos Drug Gang," and making fun of those who actually consider this evidence. Drugs are a potential motive--we know about his previous conviction and we know that he allegedly received a death threat just one week prior to the shooting. Where the drug connection with TR is located (for example, San Carlos) is not really material--that connection could be in any number of places. Arizona is just slightly well known for its meth trade.

As for Tanya's cell phone call--I have yet to see any evidence from DPS that the call was triangulated from cell phone towers to determine her location at the time of the call. This means her alibi is open to question. Doubtless, she was in San Carlos, but without the evidence it is still an open point.

To sum up, my point in writing that post was to make it clear that some posters rely on evidence, some on emotion, some on their own personal histories and some on the desire to have fun by making others angry. Conclusions drawn from a rational consideration of the evidence available are, I thought, what we were all trying to attain.

Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

I think there is also much that we know that points to this boy.

According to the statement made by the bus driver he was dropped off along with the other kids at around 2:30 pm.

He has no alibi for any of that time even though he states he was out walking in broad daylight around and around the block in a neighborhood that is very open.

He has GSR on his clothing that weren't even taken until the next day. The location of the GSR fits with him being the shooter where it would be found on the chest areas of his shirt and sleeves.

It was confirmed that 2 of the bullets taken from the murdered men' corpse came from his own gun. The other bullets were consistent or similar. None that I recall could be ruled out (eliminated) as not coming from the chipmunk gun.

His fingerprints were on the box of bullets.

According to the recorded statements he made threats to murder his father prior to his father being murdered.

His story did not match. He said when he went up the stairs and found his father with his face already covered in blood but then he said he shot him to end his suffering. He was taught to make head shots when he hunted small game so therefore he lied because the only way his father's face could have been covered in blood was he had already been shot in the head. He twist the truth. He did see his father that way for that was the final two shots he fired knowing those shots would make death a finality. Just like he knew his dad was never coming back to use his own cell phone ever again.

His interview story is not backed up with what we know. He told that he casually strolled up the street calling out to Tim from three houses away when he didn't even see Tim and then he said he found Tim laying dead, went inside the home and staid by his father's for 30 minutes. Yet Tim Romans told Tanya at 4:52 pm that Vinnie had just walked through his door to his home. Around 4:55 pm Tim told Tanya he had to go that the boy was calling him saying something had happened to his dad. Within a few minutes later Tim also was dead. Then the boy was seen for the first time, since getting off the bus by anyone, when he let Nellie out, patted her on her head and this was about 2 minutes after the gunshots were heard.

So if Vinnie was shot four times in around 3 minutes and then Tim was shot 6 times it would probably take a couple more minutes and that would make it around 5 minutes total to kill Tim, making sure he was no longer alive and quivering. Then add the time that it would take him to go back inside make sure his dead wasn't shaking and quivering anymore, place the gun on the dog cage and letting the dog out and walking to the neighbors shows just how tight this time line is. There is no time for someone else to come in and do all of this and then he comes upon it afterward.

And who takes time to put their book pack under the kitchen table when they have just found a dead man laying on their front porch and another dead man, their own father, laying in a pool of blood on his stairway?

Yes, I would like to know all the results to all the test.

I want to see the reenactment report done by the defense and paid for by the state of Arizona. I would also like to see the reenactment report done by the state expert. I would like to know if further blood was found on his jeans using a special forensic green light and if the blood pattern was blood transfer or blood spatter. I would like to see the additional report of the weapon that DPS suggested should be sent for further testing. I have no reason to believe it wasn't since a recommendation had been made by the investigators. I want to know if they receive clearer prints from the boy that the investigator notated in their report. I would like to see Tiff's statement of just what the boy told her about the murders and what struggles she and Vinnie had gone through with this boy in the last couple of months,but we wont see any of that now that he has plead his case out and I think that is one of the reasons among others why he plead and he knows he is guilty and it was a good deal for him.

But I don't think we have to know everything to be able to come to an message board opinion about any case.

I see far more evidence against this boy than anyone else involved.

And all LE, including local and the state agency agrees. If there were other suspects we would have long heard about it by now.

It is logical to believe that all other parties attached to this case had iron clad alibis and only the boy had none.

Police always establishes alibis of others even if they are not suspects, to decrease the fodder that the defense would stir up if LE did not do so.

imo

[TheItalian]

I am not wolfi, of course, Donuts, but I wouldn't think they tested Nellie's fur.

I don't see how that could have advanced their case either way. She may have been in her kennel cage until he let her out when he left and not up at him nor the victims when this happened.

But if they did test then imo it would have been found in overall general areas not necessarily on the front of her based on how close she was.

I have never heard of GSR testing done on a dog. I heard of them being checked to see if they had any blood on them that belonged to the victim or a suspect.

That is an interesting thought though. Would it be in the same location or would it be more in general overall areas? Wish I knew the answer to that.

My hubby who has been hunting for most of his life says he finds the "white smoke" puzzling. He said he has never seen a .22 rifle when fired have a white smoke cloud coming out of the barrel. He said if it does it is so minimal that one doesn't even notice it with their naked eye.

Only 4 of the 10 shots were fired inside the home.

imoo

I saw it posted on the channel 15 story that Mr. Rogers says he is Eryn's husband? Is that true? If it is, then I can understand the bias. A disclaimer on any posting would be helpful. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

My responses in red and all MOO.

" No, not always. Logically speaking, if LE believes they have their killer, why would they continue looking?"

Police always continue their investigation. They always tied down the alibis of others close to the victim. It is a common investigation protocol. A police investigation is two fold. To find out all the evidence that points to the charged defendant and to investigate all avenues and all witnesses that they think is vital as State witnesses and those who may be called as defense witnesses later on.

They don't go into a case blind about any other party affiliated with the case. When they turnover their evidence to the State they know they must turnover all information on each person they spoke with and a time line for each.

They even asked the neighbors where they were at the time of the crime. These police aren't as dumb as some would like to believe. They knew most likely Tiffany and Tanya would be among their star witnesses. These type of witnesses are checked out thoroughly beforehand so the defense cant blindside the prosecutor by not having this already done and validated.

I have seen quite a few cases where the defense tried to blame one of the witnesses and the State would shut them down, showing their witness had an iron clad alibi.

So yes, imo, all important parties had alibis in this case. All except the defendant in this case.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

He said he was going to kill his father or shoot his father.

His father was SHOT and killed.

imo

[Pena64]

He said he was going to kill his father or shoot his father.

His father was SHOT and killed.

imo

I agree GB. this board ought to be renamed the "Family members spin the boy NOT GUILTY, Ignore the facts that he did it" board. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

"And who takes time to put their book pack under the kitchen table when they have just found a dead man laying on their front porch and another dead man, their own father, laying in a pool of blood on his stairway?"

And what purpose would there have been for him to place the backpack under the table? Why is this detail important???"

Yes, why would they take the time to go into the kitchen and place their backpack under the table when they had supposedly just squeezed into a doorway because a dead man was laying on the porch and his own father was laying in a pool of blood on his stairway?

Imo, the devil is in the details.

But, if he went directly home after school he would have plenty of time to do whatever he wanted to do before Tim and Vinnie arrived home. Like putting the backpack under the table. Maybe even writing his one page story that was found at the scene or getting the gun and bullets down and getting ready.



imoo

[Pena64]

"And who takes time to put their book pack under the kitchen table when they have just found a dead man laying on their front porch and another dead man, their own father, laying in a pool of blood on his stairway?"

And what purpose would there have been for him to place the backpack under the table? Why is this detail important???"

Yes, why would they take the time to go into the kitchen and place their backpack under the table when they had supposedly just squeezed into a doorway because a dead man was laying on the porch and his own father was laying in a pool of blood on his stairway?

Imo, the devil is in the details.

But, if he went directly home after school he would have plenty of time to do whatever he wanted to do before Tim and Vinnie arrived home. Like putting the backpack under the table. Maybe even writing his one page story that was found at the scene or getting the gun and bullets down and getting ready.



imoo

We're back to drug gangs theory again. Too funny! The boy threatened to do it. Then he did it. He lied about it. Then he admitted it to doing it. Then he pled guilty to do doing it. Plain and simple. But he is loose and never had to pay for his crime, IMO.

[sdn8tv]

We're back to drug gangs theory again. Too funny! The boy threatened to do it. Then he did it. He lied about it. Then he admitted it to doing it. Then he pled guilty to do doing it. Plain and simple. But he is loose and never had to pay for his crime, IMO.

I believe that if his father felt this was a credible threat he would not have had loaded or easily accessible weapons wth ammo available in a non-secure place at their home.

[sdn8tv]

I agree GB. this board ought to be renamed the "Family members spin the boy NOT GUILTY, Ignore the facts that he did it" board. JMO

Nope, not a family member. My last name is not, Romero, Pena or Vallejos. Just a concerned person trying to discuss the facts from all angles.

[sdn8tv]

" No, not always. Logically speaking, if LE believes they have their killer, why would they continue looking?"

Police always continue their investigation. They always tied down the alibis of others close to the victim. It is a common investigation protocol. A police investigation is two fold. To find out all the evidence that points to the charged defendant and to investigate all avenues and all witnesses that they think is vital as State witnesses and those who may be called as defense witnesses later on.

They don't go into a case blind about any other party affiliated with the case. When they turnover their evidence to the State they know they must turnover all information on each person they spoke with and a time line for each.

They even asked the neighbors where they were at the time of the crime. These police aren't as dumb as some would like to believe. They knew most likely Tiffany and Tanya would be among their star witnesses. These type of witnesses are checked out thoroughly beforehand so the defense cant blindside the prosecutor by not having this already done and validated.

I have seen quite a few cases where the defense tried to blame one of the witnesses and the State would shut them down, showing their witness had an iron clad alibi.

So yes, imo, all important parties had alibis in this case. All except the defendant in this case.
imo

I think if someone is going to set up a killing they are gong to have an ironclad alibi. IMHO

[Pena64]

That's nonsense. If someone has an ironclad alibi, they didn't do it. If someone doesn't have an alibi than they did do it...CR has the famous 2 1/2 hour I didn't see anyone and noone saw me in broad daylight alibi. JMO.

[TheItalian]

That's nonsense. If someone has an ironclad alibi, they didn't do it. If someone doesn't have an alibi than they did do it...CR has the famous 2 1/2 hour I didn't see anyone and noone saw me in broad daylight alibi. JMO.

There is no logic to saying an ironclad alibi means someone did it.

The boy's UNPROVABLE alibi means the boy did it. Give me a break, the boy walks aimlessly around the block for 2 1/2 hours, seeing no one, and no one seeing him. This is a tale out of Fairyland. That's why , IMO, he pled guilty, to not serve jail time.

[GentleBreeze]

I think if someone is going to set up a killing they are gong to have an ironclad alibi. IMHO

How could the boy set up an iron clad alibi if he didn't have one and was in the house the entire time after he got off the bus? :confused:

If he had an iron clad alibi then he couldn't be the shooter.

But he does not have an iron clad alibi. No one saw him until about 2 minutes after the gunshots were heard when he was LEAVING the house and walking away.

imo

[sdn8tv]

How could the boy set up an iron clad alibi if he didn't have one and was in the house the entire time after he got off the bus? :confused:

If he had an iron clad alibi then he couldn't be the shooter.

But he does not have an iron clad alibi. No one saw him until about 2 minutes after the gunshots were heard when he was LEAVING the house and walking away.

imo

I wasn't referring to the boy. I was speaking in general. Sorry for the confusion

[GentleBreeze]

I believe that if his father felt this was a credible threat he would not have had loaded or easily accessible weapons with ammo available in a non-secure place at their home.

How nice it would be if parents who are threatened by their children, could have some crystal ball and really know if their child was serious when they threatened them or they weren't.

Too late for Vinnie Romero though. He couldn't out live the four shots that riddled his body and head.

He, like most fathers imo couldn't comprehend that their very own child meant every word he said. I wish he could get a do over and know he should have been very fearful of his son.

No matter how disrespectful this boy was to his father, VR wanted so much to still trust and believe in his son. This boy betrayed that trust.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

How do we know the person who was asked to wait for CR on that day didn't get stuff ready?

I believe young petty criminals < even wannabe gang members > were at the house looking for drugs. The white car with a missing hub cap is not the type of vehicle big time drug dealers cruise around town in...The car spotted by the neighbor confirmed it for me CR was telling the truth.

I believe Vincent & TR pulled up when one criminal was already in the house. Vincent entered the house - spotted something out of place - the shooter was in the stairway, shot him dead.

CR was not the shooter.:wink:

I sure do respect your opinion Donuts but the drug gang angle is just a little far fetched to me. I don't think they would depend on a weapon they would have to fire 10 times in the middle of the day in a quiet and open neighborhood. And there were a lot of weapons there and none were taken. There was over $800+ cash on the victims where it would only take a second to snatch yet nothing was taken.

I think the multiple shots by a pea shooter gun shows it was this boy who was very comfortable using his own gun over all the higher powered ones he could have chose. The excessive shots fired shows me it was someone close to one of the victims, in a personal rage with Vinnie Romero and Tim died just because he happened to be there.

imoo

[Pena64]

I sure do respect your opinion Donuts but the drug gang angle is just a little far fetched to me. I don't think they would depend on a weapon they would have to fire 10 times in the middle of the day in a quiet and open neighborhood. And there were a lot of weapons there and none were taken. There was over $800+ cash on the victims where it would only take a second to snatch yet nothing was taken.

I think the multiple shots by a pea shooter gun shows it was this boy who was very comfortable using his own gun over all the higher powered ones he could have chose. The excessive shots fired shows me it was someone close to one of the victims, in a personal rage with Vinnie Romero and Tim died just because he happened to be there.

imoo

The drug angle is laughable. No money was taken, and no drug gangs shoot their victims with .22's yet alone the victim's.22, that is pure nonsense. jmo

[Pena64]

This is a ridiculous statement. I'm sure hundreds of people right there in St. Johns didn't have an ironclad alibi that day. Not to mention thousands of folks in the surrounding areas and billions of people the world over. Yet none of them are suspected of murder. I'm pretty sure most folks don't wake up thinking they will need an alibi for some reason or another on any given day. Let alone an 8-year-old child.

no it's a more ridiculous statement to think the boy didn't do it with no alibi and someone with an ironclad alibi would do it. that is a more ridiculous statement, imo.

[Pena64]

Back to the real world people....A reminder to all...the boy threatened to kill his dad many times...the boy confessed....all evidence points to the boy...he had no alibi...it was his gun...he had GSR.....and he pled guilty, imo

[GentleBreeze]

While your assumption SHOULD be correct, to believe it is is naive. The majority of PD's across the country are shorthanded and have limited resources. Why would they continue to investigate a crime they are already patting themselves on the back for having "solved?"
IMO, any further "investigating" they may have done was conducted in such a way as to support that bogus confession.

And I don't believe we know all of the "important parties" that may have been looked at had things gone differently with the boy.

Whether you consider it naive or not, yes, I do believe they are no different than any other LE department. No matter how shorthanded they are and I didn't see any evidence of that......they even had the State investigators on board....it is SOP to get alibis on all witnesses.

Many a defendant has confessed and been charged. That is not the end of the investigation but the beginning.

I don't agree........they did a vast amount of interviews that we know of and some I am sure we still don't know about.

I think they over investigated this case.

DAs do not work on surprises and if any party had no alibi the police would let them know that because that may be who the defense lamely tries to blame as the suspect when it is just a bunch of bunk.

I think they have iron clad alibis on everyone but this defendant.

There is no reason why this investigation would be conducted any differently than any other defendant who may have confessed and the State charged them with murder.

Imo, Wood knew this too. He knew everyone involved in this investigation had an alibi and his client didn't have one.

I don't think investigating Romans criminal record or the allegations of a prior sexual assault allegedly done by him or revealing that he was a mid level drug dealer who said someone threatened to kill him is collecting information against the boy.

I think they investigated, period and went where the investigation led them which was right back to this defendant. The one who plead guilty to homicide.

imo

[sdn8tv]

Alrighty then. It's quite obvious that neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. What you see as black, I see as white. I truly respect your opinion and your insights and hope you respect mine as well. But we will never see eye-to-eye on this case until the real killer or killers are discovered.

There is too much hatred, pettiness and meaningless friction on this board for me. I sincerely hope to meet you again elsewhere! :seeya:


I'm with you on this one. I actually took a break from it all this weekend because I was letting this nastiness creep into my personal life so much that I was losing focus of my own purpose.

GB, Truce...I think we can agree to disagree on this case. I doubt we will every really see it from each other's point of view. I decided not to post my reasons for thinking what I do so that I do not continue to fuel the nastiness coming from here. Sometimes, we (me included) forget that these are real people and real raw feelings involved. I think this board has become too nasty with a few recent posters who are convinced that I am actually Eryn on other sites. :angry:

Pena64, regardless of what you might think and whatever cronies you gathered in St. Johns to call me names on other boards this will not change my position. I am not Eryn, I am in no way shape or form connected to any of the families involved in this horrible sequence of events. I have never even met them. I think it is very sad that you are taking such pleasure it calling this boy hurtful and spiteful names. If you are related to this family, I'm sorry this has touched your lives. In your quiet moments, please remember he is a 9 year old boy who's live was forever changed on that awful day, whether he did it or not.

While again, my whole point was to try and defend a boy who may or may not have killed his father from further being disgraced from interent posters who can hide behind a computer and continue to drag this family further in the mud. I'm disappointed in myself that in my desire to defend I may have offended some. not on this board but a family member who may have come across this and read the hurtful things posted.

So I will continue to discuss this among my friends (both old and new)on private blogs that cannot be tainted by some of the nastiness here. I will continue to crusade for this boy privately.

I've always been taught that silence is golden.

[GentleBreeze]

This is a quote from an online gun source: "(Remember that the .22 pistol is the preferred gun of real hitmen—NOT the cannons you see them using in the movies.)"

Here is the link to the discussion: http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/gunthing/134/

Sincerely,

Judge RoyBean
Hangin' Judge

This article was written in 2003. I would like to see the now current stats as to what the preferable weapon is now for a hit-man. Higher powered handguns have flooded the black market and also increased in legal sales especially in the past few years. I tend to see these gang members as nothing but squads of hit-men and I never hear about them carrying a .22 pistol when they get arrested or had them on their person when they were killed by other gang members or even LE.

But I do agree that a .22 semi automatic handgun is one that just about every homeowner should have in their collection and most do. I much prefer a .38 special myself and when I carry a gun on my person I carry either the .38 or .357 when I travel. Of course I would think that many have .22 rifles as they can do so many things such as target shooting, hunting small game or even killing wild rabid animals or poisonous snakes. The 20 guage shotgun is also quite useful for bird shoots or target shooting. It can also be used in defense if an intruder invades one's home, However the perp has to be rather close to get the full blast of the shotgun pellets that aren't nearly as powerful as a 12 guage but usually it would certainly be enough to injury them or scare them where they would retreat.

But in this case we know that at least two of the bullets came from the chipmunk gun and the other bullets had similar characteristics. I did not see anywhere in the report where they were able to conclusively rule out that the bullets did not come from the suspected murder weapon.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Alrighty then. It's quite obvious that neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose. What you see as black, I see as white. I truly respect your opinion and your insights and hope you respect mine as well. But we will never see eye-to-eye on this case until the real killer or killers are discovered.

There is too much hatred, pettiness and meaningless friction on this board for me. I sincerely hope to meet you again elsewhere! :seeya:

Mama, I never thought you had to agree with me. As far as I know that has never been a criteria here for any poster. My intention is only to express my own opinion, not to sway you or others to believe anything.

I know that you see it one way and that I see it another.

And yes, I most certainly do respect your opinion. We are not clones. People see things differently all the time here..........not just in this case but all cases.

Are you saying I have been hateful and petty? I don't think that is fair, Mama. I have expressed by opinions and yes, it is conflicting with yours and others. I suppose it is because I have been on message boards for a decade now and have learned not to invoke my own personal emotions in any case. I just look at the case and express what I think that case shows. Sadly I have seen personal attacks done by both sides.

Just because someone may firmly disagree with me and says so, doesn't make me think they are hateful or petty, unless they personally try to attack ME, instead of commenting on the contents of my posts. I have always conversed with both sides of any case here. I read all sides of any position a poster makes. I wouldn't be on a message board if I only wanted to hear myself think or think that everyone must agree with me. How totally boring.

I think each one of us believes what we believe in this case and have been passionate in telling why we believe as we do.

So I hope to see you on another case, Mama, and who knows this time we may be on the same side of the issues but if not, I look forward to debating the case with you and all others.:seeya::rose:

imo

[TheItalian]

Mama, I never thought you had to agree with me. As far as I know that has never been a criteria here for any poster. My intention is only to express my own opinion, not to sway you or others to believe anything.

I know that you see it one way and that I see it another.

And yes, I most certainly do respect your opinion. We are not clones. People see things differently all the time here..........not just in this case but all cases.

Are you saying I have been hateful and petty? I don't think that is fair, Mama. I have expressed by opinions and yes, it is conflicting with yours and others. I suppose it is because I have been on message boards for a decade now and have learned not to invoke my own personal emotions in any case. I just look at the case and express what I think that case shows. Sadly I have seen personal attacks done by both sides.

Just because someone may firmly disagree with me and says so, doesn't make me think they are hateful or petty, unless they personally try to attack ME, instead of commenting on the contents of my posts. I have always conversed with both sides of any case here. I read all sides of any position a poster makes. I wouldn't be on a message board if I only wanted to hear myself think or think that everyone must agree with me. How totally boring.

I think each one of us believes what we believe in this case and have been passionate in telling why we believe as we do.

So I hope to see you on another case, Mama, and who knows this time we may be on the same side of the issues but if not, I look forward to debating the case with you and all others.:seeya::rose:

imo

No matter what logic you use GB it's futile. When posters believe drug gangs would break into a house and use the .22 on hand, is absurd. Romans was working full time as a welder and hardly has time to be a drug dealer. No money was taken which is laughable. If you're in the business selling drugs and killing than certainly you want the money lying around. There is no logic to this. No drug people have admitted to killing the men, but CR did. No drug people have pleaded gulity, but CR has. No reported multiple death threats by drug gangs, but CR did. No drug gangs were seen at the house but CR was seen and heard there. The GSR pattern consistenet with CR being the shooter, the ridculous alibi of walking around the block 2 1/2 hours in broad daylight seeing no one and no one seeing him is absurd. When CR killed his dad, he wasnt going to leave a witness, that's why Tim was killed. I listened to his chilling confession, and the boy most certainly did it, IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

The drug angle may not make sense to you but given TR's criminal record; it makes sense to me. Not all drug sales/buys are gang related....

We don't know exactly how much money each man had on their person so you can't say for sure "No money was taken"... We know how much they were found with but who knows...maybe the shooter(s) grabbed what they could and ran..

I think your hatred towards CR has given you tunnel vision. It's a condition some LEO's get when investigating certain cases...

You can continue to blame CR and I will continue to believe TR's past came back to haunt him.

One more time for Pena - Not all DRUG SALES/BUYS are GANG-RELATED.

Illegal drug sales/buys are against the law.:wink: People who engage in this kind of lifestyle bring unsavory characters into their world...:ohmy: It's a possibility it happened to TR.

I do agree, Donuts, that illegal drugs must bring unsavory characters into one's life but I just don't think there is any evidence that it was ever brought into the Romero household. This boy seems to define "bad" people as ones who smoke and plays loud music. IMO that is not a kid that had drugs in his life. I think Vinnie was a man who did not allow drugs to infiltrate his home. His key chain read "Drugs Kill" iirc. And really I even doubt that the Romeros knew of Tim's past or being arrested a year earlier because that was a 170 miles away from the Romeros and Tim hadn't even lived with them but a few months.

I could possibly agree that there could have been some type of retaliation but I just don't think it would occur in the wide open sunshine in a home that was very open to the neighborhood. Imo, if Tim had been shot it would be where the perps were very familiar with their own turf and where Tim hung out in San Carlos.

But to me it is still the amount of time that these murders took place and I just cant wrap my mind around some druggies coming into the neighborhood doing all of this and it ending and leaving around 5 pm and then the boy being seen coming out of the house just a couple of minutes later.

Even if we disregard some of his confession, there is no reason in the world, that if innocent, he would lie about what he did that day. There would be only one reason, because at that time he was just telling how he found the bodies and what he did afterward, and that one reason is he was the one involved and wanting the police to think he was out of the home for 2.5 hours, yet sight unseen by another living soul. We have seen other cases where the person just happened to find the body/bodies only to be the guilty party.

I think Pena is entitled to believe what they believe and anyone convinced that this boy did these heinous double murders certainly wouldn't have compassion for him but for the victims who were violently killed, imo.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

No matter what logic you use GB it's futile. When posters believe drug gangs would break into a house and use the .22 on hand, is absurd. Romans was working full time as a welder and hardly has time to be a drug dealer. No money was taken which is laughable. If you're in the business selling drugs and killing than certainly you want the money lying around. There is no logic to this. No drug people have admitted to killing the men, but CR did. No drug people have pleaded guilty, but CR has. No reported multiple death threats by drug gangs, but CR did. No drug gangs were seen at the house but CR was seen and heard there. The GSR pattern consistent with CR being the shooter, the ridiculous alibi of walking around the block 2 1/2 hours in broad daylight seeing no one and no one seeing him is absurd. When CR killed his dad, he wasn't going to leave a witness, that's why Tim was killed. I listened to his chilling confession, and the boy most certainly did it, IMO.

Even though two men lost their lives in such a senseless brutal way, the part that has made me worry if this boy actually can be treated successfully is the killing of Tim Romans. To be able to lure another human being, under the false pretense they needed their help,only to be laying in wait to kill them, shows a very depraved, unfeeling and cold heart imo.

It just makes me feel he has no compassion for anyone other than himself.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Your words TheItalian "No drug people have admitted to killing the men"...HELLO - do you actually think someone would be dumb enough to admit their involvement? Do you think they'd want to be caught for murder and sentenced to life behind bars?

Ring Ring to_________Police Dept. Hello Officer, I'm Mr. drug dealer/buyer - I just shot ___________my name is __________please come arrest me and send me to jail for life.:rolleyes:

I don't think that is the way it usually goes, Donuts. I think another druggie gets his or her tail in a crack and is arrested and then they start singing like a canary trying to get a lesser sentence or charges dropped for testifying. And no druggie would keep his mouth shut that he had shot someone because they would want the others in their group to know they did it so they could quake in fear too.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Anyone know the date of sentencing?

All I know, Linda, I think they have another hearing on April 5th, I think.

It is on the court calender.

imo

[Pena64]

I don't think that is the way it usually goes, Donuts. I think another druggie gets his or her tail in a crack and is arrested and then they start singing like a canary trying to get a lesser sentence or charges dropped for testifying. And no druggie would keep his mouth shut that he had shot someone because they would want the others in their group to know they did it so they could quake in fear too.

imo

Even if I were naive and foolish enough to belive it was a drug thing, the drug person would get him on their own turf in San Carlos not in St. Johns, not even knowing where Tim was staying. Why make the long trip with no gun and no knowledge of where he lived? The drug argument is beyond ridiculous. We never even established he was a drug dealer. In the police report it said the LE individual suspected him of selling drugs. This argument is lame, IMO

[Pena64]

Even though two men lost their lives in such a senseless brutal way, the part that has made me worry if this boy actually can be treated successfully is the killing of Tim Romans. To be able to lure another human being, under the false pretense they needed their help,only to be laying in wait to kill them, shows a very depraved, unfeeling and cold heart imo.

It just makes me feel he has no compassion for anyone other than himself.

imo

I believe if the boy is having nightmares about shooting the two men, it is because he has never expressed remorse for the acts. I also wonder if he can ever be successfully treated. Especially if you release him to his mom, without intensive treatment. Makes no sense to me. IMO

[TheItalian]

I believe the police will eventally release 2 or 3 more death threats the boy made to other children where CR said he was going to kill his dad and stepmom. I also believe police will eventually release that in addition to his police confession, that CR confessed to his stepmother and a jailer when his stepmother first visited him in juveile detention 11-6th. Hopefully all this will be released soon. Just my opinion.

[wolfi_2]

I believe the police will eventally release 2 or 3 more death threats the boy made to other children where CR said he was going to kill his dad and stepmom. I also believe police will eventually release that in addition to his police confession, that CR confessed to his stepmother and a jailer when his stepmother first visited him in juveile detention 11-6th. Hopefully all this will be released soon. Just my opinion.


I don't think that they release any new information, because of the plea it's useless, -and the boy is fortunately free as he should be. IMO

[sdn8tv]

Even if I were naive and foolish enough to belive it was a drug thing, the drug person would get him on their own turf in San Carlos not in St. Johns, not even knowing where Tim was staying. Why make the long trip with no gun and no knowledge of where he lived? The drug argument is beyond ridiculous. We never even established he was a drug dealer. In the police report it said the LE individual suspected him of selling drugs. This argument is lame, IMO

Post 786 of this thread
Pages 570 to 584 of the SJPD/DPS report

Charges
Unlawful use of dangerous drugs
Unlawful use of Marijuana
Resisting Lawful Arreest

Please feel free to read the full report. It is a public document available. Below are the highlights.

The full report plus more is there. This is not way in his past as some on here would like us to believe. The date of the arrest is 10/31/2007.
The male driver had exaggerated movements, irritable, raspy voice, clammy pale face, dilated pupils. Failed to produce a driver license. When asked if he had been drinking, response was F**k No!. He started yelling for his mother. They found in his truck a glass smoking pipe with milky white burn markings. The placed him under arrest, standing in the middle of the road yelling for his mom, then started running, jumped a fence. Police gave commands to stop but he continued to run. Taser was deployed, he was hit, said Awe and continued to run.
After his arrest, they removed from the truck five clear 1" by 1" bags containing meth. A shoe box containing two clear plastic bags containing marijuana, a triple beam scale and several 1" by 1" bagss in bulk. A black plastic trash bag containing female underwear. A wad of money under the driver seat later totalling $1872.00.
Supplemental report - the next day he broke into the impound yard, broke into the driver side of the truck to remove some of his belongings. I assume, IMO, this is what he was on probation for.
Clearly this is a person I would not have around my 8 year old son, in fact this is exacxtly the type of people I try to protect my children from.

[wolfi_2]

Post 786 of this thread
Pages 570 to 584 of the SJPD/DPS report

Charges
Unlawful use of dangerous drugs
Unlawful use of Marijuana
Resisting Lawful Arreest

Please feel free to read the full report. It is a public document available. Below are the highlights.

The full report plus more is there. This is not way in his past as some on here would like us to believe. The date of the arrest is 10/31/2007.
The male driver had exaggerated movements, irritable, raspy voice, clammy pale face, dilated pupils. Failed to produce a driver license. When asked if he had been drinking, response was F**k No!. He started yelling for his mother. They found in his truck a glass smoking pipe with milky white burn markings. The placed him under arrest, standing in the middle of the road yelling for his mom, then started running, jumped a fence. Police gave commands to stop but he continued to run. Taser was deployed, he was hit, said Awe and continued to run.
After his arrest, they removed from the truck five clear 1" by 1" bags containing meth. A shoe box containing two clear plastic bags containing marijuana, a triple beam scale and several 1" by 1" bagss in bulk. A black plastic trash bag containing female underwear. A wad of money under the driver seat later totalling $1872.00.
Supplemental report - the next day he broke into the impound yard, broke into the driver side of the truck to remove some of his belongings. I assume, IMO, this is what he was on probation for.
Clearly this is a person I would not have around my 8 year old son, in fact this is exacxtly the type of people I try to protect my children from.

I totally agree with you, I never like to see such a person around children. IMO

[Pena64]

It appears Eryn's family is posting again about the ridiculous theory that drug gangs came to St. Johns to kill Tim. Even though there is NO proof. Even though it is absurd to think they would drive 180 miles to St. Johns, not knowing where Tim lived, and relying on the boy having a .22 at home so they could frame CR. Of course police discounted this absurd theory. No money was taken. And there is no possible timeline for them. There was no reported drugs in the home and no previous police reports of drugs. These ridiculous drug posts are Too funny!

Now on to the REAL TRUTH....

CR's claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. 2 1/2 hours not being seen or have seen anyone in broad daylight

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop.

The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion and other threats

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver.

The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Box of shells nearby.

The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable.

His own mother said he changed recently.

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub.

Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent.

He was misbehaving in school

Grounded recently

Spanked recently

Very obviously angry over it, he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard.

Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his.

Confessed to police.

Changing plea to guilty.

I laugh every day when I read about the supposed drug connection. Too funny! IMO

[sdn8tv]

Thank you sdn8tv! This information leads me to believe this could have been drug related. IIRC, one of the LEO's was from DEA.:wink:

It's incredible how there are some people that would rather put blinders on and ignore this information. Like it or not - one of the victims broke the law in the past....This person was not perfect. Sadly, someone took his life - I do not believe it was CR...From all accounts...CR liked Tim.

I know everyone is entitled to believe whatever their heart desires and that is fine. I have chosen to believe CR is innocent...I think CR is victim too. I am happy that he is free to live with his mother. I hope one day someone is arrested for a crime and they give up the name of the people involved to save their own butts.

I have faith in LE. I think one day the whole truth will be known.

At a minimum it provides information that things were not quite and ideal in the household.

A possible scenario might be that if this was drug related, once they got there and saw that there were weapons in the house then they used the "household" weapons so their own weapons were not invovled. Remember even though ballastics indicate there were two bullets consistent with CR's weapon there still are NO PRINTS on the gun. The gun was wiped clean.

Also, regardless of what some people might think that the drug dealers didn't know where in St. Johns Tim was...it is a small town and everyone that was interviewed out at the plant knew Tim stayed with Vince when he was working and went home on the weekends.

Another suspicious movement of Tims; He would take his "laundry" to his mothers every weekend on his way home and then go pick it up on his way back to St. Johns. Laundry? Why couldn't his wife do it? Or was this is "normal" routine for drug running.

Another; When he was arrested in 2007 (posted above) for drugs, he kept screaming for his mom...was this because he was scared? Or was this because he was trying to warn her to get rid of the drugs.

Lastly, I doubt if at least Vince didn't know about Tim's past. So why was this person really allowed to stay at his house? Again, I keep people like that AWAY from my house, family and personal circle.

[TheItalian]

It appears Eryn's family is posting again about the ridiculous theory that drug gangs came to St. Johns to kill Tim. Even though there is NO proof. Even though it is absurd to think they would drive 180 miles to St. Johns, not knowing where Tim lived, and relying on the boy having a .22 at home so they could frame CR. Of course police discounted this absurd theory. No money was taken. And there is no possible timeline for them. There was no reported drugs in the home and no previous police reports of drugs. These ridiculous drug posts are Too funny!

Now on to the REAL TRUTH....

CR's claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. 2 1/2 hours not being seen or have seen anyone in broad daylight

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop.

The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion and other threats

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver.

The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Box of shells nearby.

The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable.

His own mother said he changed recently.

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub.

Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent.

He was misbehaving in school

Grounded recently

Spanked recently

Very obviously angry over it, he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard.

Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his.

Confessed to police.

Changing plea to guilty.

I laugh every day when I read about the supposed drug connection. Too funny! IMO

I agree the drug theory is laughable! No drugs were found in Tim's system, and this was about 2 years ago. I'm sure TR's employer tested for drugs also. Plus, as you said, no drugs were found at the VR's home.
There's no way drugs were involved. No druggie is gonna go to St. johns to kill Tim with a borrowed .22 from CR. What a funny story! My opinion.

[sdn8tv]

It appears Eryn's family is posting again about the ridiculous theory that drug gangs came to St. Johns to kill Tim. Even though there is NO proof. Even though it is absurd to think they would drive 180 miles to St. Johns, not knowing where Tim lived, and relying on the boy having a .22 at home so they could frame CR. Of course police discounted this absurd theory. No money was taken. And there is no possible timeline for them. There was no reported drugs in the home and no previous police reports of drugs. These ridiculous drug posts are Too funny!

Now on to the REAL TRUTH....

Here's my responses to this same post that was posted on Friday.

CR's claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. 2 1/2 hours not being seen or have seen anyone in broad daylight

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop.

The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion and other threats

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver.

The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Box of shells nearby.

The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable.

His own mother said he changed recently.

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub.

Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent.

He was misbehaving in school

Grounded recently

Spanked recently

Very obviously angry over it, he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard.

Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his.

Confessed to police.

Changing plea to guilty.

I laugh every day when I read about the supposed drug connection. Too funny! IMO

His claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. The famous 2 1/2 hour walk where no neighbors saw him.

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop. So the kid was playing with his dog or shooting his father?The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver. I already provided documentation that this is not true.
The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Who put it there? Box of shells nearby. Where there's a gun there's ammo. this was a hunting family.
The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him
His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable. Proof? Documentation? Because the person I talked to said this was totally taken out of context and now what Liz said.
His own mother said he changed recently. Red Flag

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub. Triple hearsay, not validated. the little girls own father said he was sweet and he loved his little sister very much. In fact he never even witnessed CR throw a tantrum. Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent. This doesn't make him a killer.He was misbehaving in school Yet another red flag
Grounded recently

Spanked recently by his step mother

Very obviously angry over it, Is this your professional opoinion? he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Again, is this your professional opinion? Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard. An ear witness saw him walking away, or was it shooting his father or was it polaying in the yard with his dog...what was it?
Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his. of his what? Because the police report said he ran to a neighbor's house crying.
Confessed to police. Illegally - not submitted as evidence

Changing plea to guilty. of neglent homicide - one count

and much more that hasn't been released IMO.

[TheItalian]

There's no way Vince would have had Tim in the house if he knew his past drug history. The idea of carrying drugs in laundry is so laughable. If I was working away from home, I'ld take my clothes home every weekend to be cleaned. Probably 50% of young people in this world have experimented with drugs. To me it's obvious, Tim was no longer part of that lifestyle. My opinion.

[TheItalian]

It appears Eryn's family is posting again about the ridiculous theory that drug gangs came to St. Johns to kill Tim. Even though there is NO proof. Even though it is absurd to think they would drive 180 miles to St. Johns, not knowing where Tim lived, and relying on the boy having a .22 at home so they could frame CR. Of course police discounted this absurd theory. No money was taken. And there is no possible timeline for them. There was no reported drugs in the home and no previous police reports of drugs. These ridiculous drug posts are Too funny!

Now on to the REAL TRUTH....

CR's claim he was out walking around the block 10+ times doesn't hold water. 2 1/2 hours not being seen or have seen anyone in broad daylight

The ear & EYE witnesses. Tanya on phone. Neighbor heard shots and sees boy outside with his dog, playing, immediately after hearing gun pops with a few second delay between each pop.

The threats the boy made in anger at family reunion and other threats

Threat he made on a hunting trip

Threats he made to another child that caused that child to be so concerned he reported it to the bus driver.

The kid was quite capable of shooting his own gun & had access to it. The gun was left on the dog cage. Box of shells nearby.

The GSR doesn't exclude him and his prints were found on the box holding ammo. That too doesn't exclude him.

His own grand parents thought he was the likely killer and thought he was capable.

His own mother said he changed recently.

Friend of the family says witnessed this boy trying to drown his half-sister in a bath tub.

Teachers called him manipulative and intelligent.

He was misbehaving in school

Grounded recently

Spanked recently

Very obviously angry over it, he brought it up. That anger seems to have been directed at his father. Tim it seems, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One ear & eye witness saw him WALKING away from his house about two minutes after the gun shots were heard.

Once he petted his dog he then WALKED away toward the house in back of his.

Confessed to police.

Changing plea to guilty.

I laugh every day when I read about the supposed drug connection. Too funny! IMO

The simplest way to say it, is the boy killed 2 people, premeditated and in cold blood. the boy definitely needs treatment rather than be out loose to possibly kill another person. IMO.

[sdn8tv]

I agree the drug theory is laughable! No drugs were found in Tim's system, and this was about 2 years ago. I'm sure TR's employer tested for drugs also. Plus, as you said, no drugs were found at the VR's home.
There's no way drugs were involved. No druggie is gonna go to St. johns to kill Tim with a borrowed .22 from CR. What a funny story! My opinion.


October 2007 and was on probation for this at the time of his death.

How convient would it be though that there was already weapons there.

[TheItalian]

I think what is more convenient PENA, is that CR was walking around the block 2 1/2 hours aimlessly not being seen by anyone or seeing anyone. I find it convenient he confessed. It was covenient that it was his own gun. And it was convenient that he pled guilty.

[Pena64]

I think what is more convenient PENA, is that CR was walking around the block 2 1/2 hours aimlessly not being seen by anyone or seeing anyone. I find it convenient he confessed. It was covenient that it was his own gun. And it was convenient that he pled guilty.

Why isn't CR in intensive counselling and therapy? Why is he out? This makes no sense to me. The boy needs 24/7 therapy for maybe 9 years.
IMHO.

[TheItalian]

Why isn't CR in intensive counselling and therapy? Why is he out? This makes no sense to me. The boy needs 24/7 therapy for maybe 9 years.
IMHO.

Pena, the only thing I can guess why he's not in intensive therapy, is that they are waiting for sentencing, so the boy is in limbo, I think. My Opinion.

[sdn8tv]

It appears Eryn's family is posting again about the ridiculous theory that drug gangs came to St. Johns to kill Tim. Even though there is NO proof. Even though it is absurd to think they would drive 180 miles to St. Johns, not knowing where Tim lived, and relying on the boy having a .22 at home so they could frame CR. Of course police discounted this absurd theory. No money was taken. And there is no possible timeline for them. There was no reported drugs in the home and no previous police reports of drugs. These ridiculous drug posts are Too funny!

Snipped for length

I laugh every day when I read about the supposed drug connection. Too funny! IMO

Can you please tell me why you think I'm Eryn or Eryn's family because this is really getting old. I would really apprciate your response to this. If you would like please PM me and I will be more than happy to tell you who I am again.

Also I don't see how anyone can laugh at anything involved in this case.