Boy takes Plea deal

[mrrogers]

The simplest way to say it, is the boy killed 2 people, premeditated and in cold blood. the boy definitely needs treatment rather than be out loose to possibly kill another person. IMO.

now that youve wasted all that time with poppycock
heres why the prosecutor went for a plea deal
the bottom line is he wasnt even sure if he could win
im sure you all will dispute this video but its straight from
carlyon .if he doesnt think hes got a winnable case thats bad
too bad your not working for apache county pena maybe in all your glory you would have won for the prosecution. i know its only seasoned prosecutors here with more than twenty years experience but its the best apache county can do.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717

[mrrogers]

Back to the real world people....A reminder to all...the boy threatened to kill his dad many times...the boy confessed....all evidence points to the boy...he had no alibi...it was his gun...he had GSR.....and he pled guilty, imo
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
nicole or pena whoever you are heres the reason the prosecutor went for a plea deal i think you should run down to the courthouse and sign up with the county atty im sure hed love your logic
for your information i posted that statement on the site of tifanys wreck story as an experiment. the response was more than i expected that everyone would take as truth an unsubstaintiated statement as truth
an you were one of many who fell for it hook line and sinker
ive never even met eryn or cr much less been in any relationship with her
the whole thing was an experiment and it proved that many people would take a statement as truth when in fact it wasnt
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=3087
its amazing that you think your smarter than the attys are
id go thru your list but i really dont feel like typing that much suffice to
say the plea deal was the best the prosecutors could do
as posted in someone elses post to you, tim was on probation at the time of the killings
if youll look here http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com
youll find alot of information to contradict your assertions which i realize are your opnion even though they are so far off base to be laughable
im sure they didnt depend on finding a gun when they murdered vince and tim it just happened to be handy and was good to try and implicate the boy tell me the probability of 2 bullets of a differnt type being used and only 1 of the different bullets in each man
along with another brand
the different bullet suggests a second shooter
if i was gonna kill someone id do it as far away from where i lived as poissible
having personally been the target of this type of person i dont find the story of the killer coming from a different town absurd at all
in my case tho the police gottem before i did. what they didnt know when they were in my driveway they were on the wrong end of an
ar-15 theyre just lucky it was my wife that had the gun and not me because i would have shot. i called my x wife after that and told her not to send anymore people after me or they wouldnt be so lucky.
since im such a nice guy if you dont have access to the files email me
me at tr7fan@gmail.com and i ll send you the web addresses of all the information.
as far as tiffany is concerned i hope she does recover ,,but all i got to say what some people can come back to bite em in the butt ..
all i can say is after seeing a cross section of the crazys on that board im glad i got a concealed wepons permit..
and in response to the post on that board no im not a boob but a person who creates situations to see what the response to them will be
. i wasnt surprised at all that so many took the totally false information i posted as the gospel and raving and ranting about that when it wasnt even true. id hurry over to whitings office im sure he needs your help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pena64]

Pena, the only thing I can guess why he's not in intensive therapy, is that they are waiting for sentencing, so the boy is in limbo, I think. My Opinion.

These posters are incredibly funny, blaming the victims, but never blaming the true killer, CR, who pled guilty and confessed. Hopefully at the sentencing the boy will get serious treatment and not be let loose anymore. I'ld hate to see a 3rd person killed. JMO

[Pena64]

He should have never admitted he was family, now no one will believe he isnt? IMO

[TheItalian]

He should have never admitted he was family, now no one will believe he isnt? IMO

Pena, I guess if someone lies about who they are in their posts, they'll tell lies in their posts. And lie about CR being innocent, IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

now that youve wasted all that time with poppycock
heres why the prosecutor went for a plea deal
the bottom line is he wasn't even sure if he could win
im sure you all will dispute this video but its straight from
carlyon .if he doesn't think hes got a winnable case thats bad
too bad your not working for apache county pena maybe in all your glory you would have won for the prosecution. i know its only seasoned prosecutors here with more than twenty years experience but its the best apache county can do.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717

In the video it does not say at anytime the Prosecutor thinks he would lose the case or not win, if you are trying to imply he didn't have the evidence. :no: Imo, that is poppycock. It was because they had an 8 year old double murder defendant, who did not fit into the juvenile justice system, and what they feared is neither man would get any semblance of justice if the court found him to be age incompetent. So they offered the plea so at least Tim Romans got some smidgen of justice and the boy plead to homicide. An admission of guilt that he was the one who took the life of Tim Romans. Which means he lied all along.

By an admission of pleading guilty to homicide it showed too that all of his hour long interview was a made up story just like the PA boy made up his own story too.

In the end it is that plea of guilt that will be remembered and how his own father was brutally killed minutes before he killed Tim Romans.

It would have been an even worse injustice if BOTH of these men who were brutally murdered fell through the cracks because of the age of the defendant.

The DA was never going to gamble that neither of these men's death were validated. It was too risky. If JR ruled he was incompetent then neither victim gets any justice. They did the right thing under the most trying of circumstances, I am sure they have had to face in their entire careers, because 8 year olds in AZ and probably the entire country, do not go around murdering human beings x 2 before this boy did. I know they all hope they never see another young murderer his age where again justice will never truly be given to the victims that are cruelly and selfishly killed.

imo

[mrrogers]

now that youve wasted all that time with poppycock
heres why the prosecutor went for a plea deal
the bottom line is he wasnt even sure if he could win
im sure you all will dispute this video but its straight from
carlyon .if he doesnt think hes got a winnable case thats bad
too bad your not working for apache county pena maybe in all your glory you would have won for the prosecution. i know its only seasoned prosecutors here with more than twenty years experience but its the best apache county can do.
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717[/url]

[GentleBreeze]

Pena, I guess if someone lies about who they are in their posts, they'll tell lies in their posts. And lie about CR being innocent, IMO.

Well I find that very odd. Why would someone do that? Why would they want to be blatantly dishonest and then seem proud of it?:scared:


imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717[/url]

Maybe you need to watch and listen to it again closely and then perhaps you would understand it and it has nothing to do with not having the evidence or afraid of losing the case at trial.

When did Carlyon speak to the media on that video?

imo

[Pena64]

Maybe you need to watch and listen to it again closely and then perhaps you would understand it and it has nothing to do with not having the evidence or afraid of losing the case at trial.

When did Carlyon speak to the media on that video?

imo

GB---Just more SPIN by posters, blame LE, blame the County attorney, blame the defense atty, Blame Tim, blame the stepmom, blame Vince, blame drug lords, blame Nicole, blame judge roca, but never blame the real culprit, CR or his real mom, IMO.

You know not everyone except CR can be at fault. You'ld have to believe this is the grandest conspiracy of all time....AND I DON'T.

[TheItalian]

GB---Just more SPIN by posters, blame LE, blame the County attorney, blame the defense atty, Blame Tim, blame the stepmom, blame Vince, blame drug lords, blame Nicole, blame judge roca, but never blame the real culprit, CR or his real mom, IMO.

You know not everyone except CR can be at fault. You'ld have to believe this is the grandest conspiracy of all time....AND I DON'T.

I agree. The boy NEEDS to take responsibility for his actions. Hopefully, at the sentencing he will apologize to all and show remorse for his acts. JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Post 786 of this thread
Pages 570 to 584 of the SJPD/DPS report

Charges
Unlawful use of dangerous drugs
Unlawful use of Marijuana
Resisting Lawful Arreest

Please feel free to read the full report. It is a public document available. Below are the highlights.

The full report plus more is there. This is not way in his past as some on here would like us to believe. The date of the arrest is 10/31/2007.
The male driver had exaggerated movements, irritable, raspy voice, clammy pale face, dilated pupils. Failed to produce a driver license. When asked if he had been drinking, response was F**k No!. He started yelling for his mother. They found in his truck a glass smoking pipe with milky white burn markings. The placed him under arrest, standing in the middle of the road yelling for his mom, then started running, jumped a fence. Police gave commands to stop but he continued to run. Taser was deployed, he was hit, said Awe and continued to run.
After his arrest, they removed from the truck five clear 1" by 1" bags containing meth. A shoe box containing two clear plastic bags containing marijuana, a triple beam scale and several 1" by 1" bagss in bulk. A black plastic trash bag containing female underwear. A wad of money under the driver seat later totaling $1872.00.
Supplemental report - the next day he broke into the impound yard, broke into the driver side of the truck to remove some of his belongings. I assume, IMO, this is what he was on probation for.
Clearly this is a person I would not have around my 8 year old son, in fact this is exactly the type of people I try to protect my children from.

But this was a year before he was killed.

From the articles it stated Tim had worked in St. John's for about a year so maybe when he got in trouble in SC is when he got a new job. He wasn't from St. John and I am sure he didn't want to go blabbing about his arrest. I doubt his job interfered with his probation since he only worked Monday thru Wednesday and then returned to San Carlos each week leaving ample time to see his probation officer back home.

He hadn't even lived with Vinnie but 2 or 3 months. I think he knew Vinnie did not do drugs and just kept his priors to himself.

People said that Tim Romans was a very friendly guy and even though he was cheating on Tanya he seemed to love his girls very much, so I think he was nice to the boy and none of them knew about the prior charges. He didn't have any drugs on him or in his truck when he was killed. I think he knew if he did and Vinnie found it he would kick him out fast.

Strange that LE in San Carlos said he was a mid level dealer but they never arrested him for that but for drug use.:confused:

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

GB---Just more SPIN by posters, blame LE, blame the County attorney, blame the defense atty, Blame Tim, blame the stepmom, blame Vince, blame drug lords, blame Nicole, blame judge roca, but never blame the real culprit, CR or his real mom, IMO.

You know not everyone except CR can be at fault. You'ld have to believe this is the grandest conspiracy of all time....AND I DON'T.

I have never been one to really get into being a conspiracy theorist. I lose track of how many people I have to blame.

I did want to believe that Elvis was really alive and hiding out somewhere, instead of dead though, but I just couldn't make it workout.:thumbdown:

[Pena64]

But this was a year before he was killed.

From the articles it stated Tim had worked in St. John's for about a year so maybe when he got in trouble in SC is when he got a new job. He wasn't from St. John and I am sure he didn't want to go blabbing about his arrest. I doubt his job interfered with his probation since he only worked Monday thru Wednesday and then returned to San Carlos each week leaving ample time to see his probation officer back home.

He hadn't even lived with Vinnie but 2 or 3 months. I think he knew Vinnie did not do drugs and just kept his priors to himself.

People said that Tim Romans was a very friendly guy and even though he was cheating on Tanya he seemed to love his girls very much, so I think he was nice to the boy and none of them knew about the prior charges. He didn't have any drugs on him or in his truck when he was killed. I think he knew if he did and Vinnie found it he would kick him out fast.

Strange that LE in San Carlos said he was a mid level dealer but they never arrested him for that but for drug use.:confused:

imoo

Tim was a good guy in my opinion. He went to CR's little league games with Vince rooting for CR. He helped the neighbors with their roof. If he did drugs, he hid it well. I'm assuming he quit when he got busted and was on probation. No drugs were in his truck or in his system suggests he quit. Vince was very antidrug, hated druggies and disliked people on welfare. I would categorize him as very conservative. There was no proof TR was ever a dealer. When he got busted I assume he had more on him than he should have. I've met him a number of times and he was genuinely nice and did not appear to be on drugs. He seemed like a good family man showing pictures of his daughters all the time.

If Vince knew of his past, he would have kicked him out. Vince was helping a coworker out temporarily and not for monetary gain. He was not so much a boarder but a coworker and friend to Vince, IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Tim was a good guy in my opinion. He went to CR's little league games with Vince rooting for CR. He helped the neighbors with their roof. If he did drugs, he hid it well. I'm assuming he quit when he got busted and was on probation. No drugs were in his truck or in his system suggests he quit. Vince was very antidrug, hated druggies and disliked people on welfare. I would categorize him as very conservative. There was no proof TR was ever a dealer. When he got busted I assume he had more on him than he should have. I've met him a number of times and he was genuinely nice and did not appear to be on drugs. He seemed like a good family man showing pictures of his daughters all the time.

If Vince knew of his past, he would have kicked him out. Vince was helping a coworker out temporarily and not for monetary gain. He was not so much a boarder but a coworker and friend to Vince, IMO.

So sad.:rose::rose:

[GentleBreeze]

Anyone know the date of sentencing?

I need to correct the prior date I gave, Linda.

The next hearing date is this Thursday, April 2, 1:00 pm

Don't know if it is just a status hearing or the sentencing date.

imoo

[sdn8tv]

Tim was a good guy in my opinion. He went to CR's little league games with Vince rooting for CR. He helped the neighbors with their roof. If he did drugs, he hid it well. I'm assuming he quit when he got busted and was on probation. No drugs were in his truck or in his system suggests he quit. Vince was very antidrug, hated druggies and disliked people on welfare. I would categorize him as very conservative. There was no proof TR was ever a dealer. When he got busted I assume he had more on him than he should have. I've met him a number of times and he was genuinely nice and did not appear to be on drugs. He seemed like a good family man showing pictures of his daughters all the time.

If Vince knew of his past, he would have kicked him out. Vince was helping a coworker out temporarily and not for monetary gain. He was not so much a boarder but a coworker and friend to Vince, IMO.

I don't think anything else needs to be said to prove your point. Is there an amount that he should have had? Just curious

[Pena64]

IMO Tim was busted for having drugs on him, not for being a drug dealer. The police totally exaggerated. But still that doesn't make Tim a BAD person. I would venture to say every SAINT on this board has done something in their life that they are not proud of.

But he didn't deserve to be killed by CR. Just like none of the posters on this board deserve to be shot by CR. I wish someone had taken CR's threats seriously. I wish the guns were locked away. I wish the teachers or parents had noticed the boy was slipping. The boy ruined his life at 8 and the lives of his dad and Tim. JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

I never said anyone had to agree on anything. My point was that - regardless of what side one may fall - we are all, basically, beating a dead horse.

I fully appreciate opposing views and theories, as long as they are presented civilly and with maturity. That is largely not the case here.

No, I don't consider YOUR posts to be hateful or petty. I'm quite certain you know which ones are - even when they support your own position. However, many times, I have interpreted your posts to be sarcastic, facetious and extremely condescending. It is MO that none of those posts are conducive to a productive discussion.

Everyone here - who cares to do the research - has exactly the same evidence and information. Yet that has led many of us to opposite views. I choose not to overlook the less sensationalized evidence and to consider all possibilities of what may have occurred the day Vincent and Tim were murdered. At the same time, I do recognize the evidence we have seen that points to CR being the killer.

BTW - we have posted - AND AGREED - on other forums.....:wink:

Well I am not going to rehash which posts that I thought were very mean spirited, cruel and even trollish at times. It certainly has not come from just one side either and I think we are all aware of that. But anywho.......

You are correct we all have the same information. I don't think anyone has ignored any of the information we have. I really think all who post here are very knowledgeable about the case. Although some could be privy to more if they are citizens of St. John. But in my case, you are wrong, I have looked at all the information, even though all of it has been untested in a court of law. I have tried to wrap my mind around the SODDI but imo it just does not fit. Perhaps if he had been seen just by one or two people, I would see things differently or if the time line had been way more than 8 minutes for both of these murders to transpire but imo, there simply was no time for a druggie, hit-man or whomever, to come into that home, kill both of these men, then leave the premises and the boy be leaving his home 2 minutes after the gunshots were heard.

Well that is great to know that we have agreed in the past. Maybe next time we will again.:smile:

Take care.

[GentleBreeze]

I think April 5th is just a pre-sentencing hearing, isn't it? I know in New Jersey that the time between plea hearing and actual sentencing is when services are secured and the residential treatment facility would be found. That would be no easy task here as not many places would be willing, available or capable of taking a double murderer imo. He would likely be sent out of state. This process oftentimes here can take 6 months or longer. And yes, often times the child remains in the home or is placed in a therapeutic foster home until an appropriate facility can be found.

I missed your post last night, Linda. Thanks for the information.

IIRC the CA stated that the disposition of the case could be from 60 to 90 days from the plea. I cant remember the date that the two experts were assigned to see the boy. I would think it would at least take a month of intensive interviews to assess the boy where he is having to report to them on a regular basis.

And I corrected the date. The 5th is this Sunday. lol It is this Thursday, the 2nd.

Most likely it is just another status hearing to see how things are progressing and how much more time the experts may need with the boy, if any.



imo

[GentleBreeze]

Your posts are comical. "When he got busted I assume he had more on him than he should have". HELLO-ILLEGAL DRUGS ARE AGAINST THE LAW. He shouldn't have had any on him.

Vince had a problem with people on welfare? He disliked them?? There are many welfare recipients who truly need assistance. How rude of you to say how Vince felt about it.:glare:

Maybe Vinnie didn't like the ones he knew who were capable of working just him but didn't want to work for what they got and just wanted a handout instead.

I think it is common for many people to dislike someone they know who is on welfare, when they know the persons just don't want to work but expect the government to take care of them instead.

I know those who do need help and deserve assistance. Those that are desperately trying to find work but I also know those who are in perfect health who prefer to milk the system instead of trying. Like everything the government touches it is misused and abused by some.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Maybe Vinnie didn't like the ones he knew who were capable of working just him but didn't want to work for what they got and just wanted a handout instead.

CORRECTION: I meant to write"just as much as him" instead of "working just him"

[Pena64]

Maybe Vinnie didn't like the ones he knew who were capable of working just him but didn't want to work for what they got and just wanted a handout instead.

CORRECTION: I meant to write"just as much as him" instead of "working just him"

I agree. People who are able but choose not to work, or chose unemployment, when jobs are available, when he was busting his butt working out at the power plant, sometimes in extreme heat, like at the boiler.

And again there is NO PROOF that Tim was a drug dealer. He wasn't busted for dealing, was he? And the idea of a drug hit is ludicrous at best, with no money being taken, with the perp using CR's gun. But go ahead and blame the dead guy instead of the real killer, CR, IMO.

[tottenwess]

Tim was a good guy in my opinion. He went to CR's little league games with Vince rooting for CR. He helped the neighbors with their roof. If he did drugs, he hid it well. I'm assuming he quit when he got busted and was on probation. No drugs were in his truck or in his system suggests he quit. Vince was very antidrug, hated druggies and disliked people on welfare. I would categorize him as very conservative. There was no proof TR was ever a dealer. When he got busted I assume he had more on him than he should have. I've met him a number of times and he was genuinely nice and did not appear to be on drugs. He seemed like a good family man showing pictures of his daughters all the time.

If Vince knew of his past, he would have kicked him out. Vince was helping a coworker out temporarily and not for monetary gain. He was not so much a boarder but a coworker and friend to Vince, IMO.
~Bolded by me~
So it's alright that Vincent disliked people on welfare but you have a problem if his son makes a comment about the type of house that someone lives in.....Here is a comment you (Pena) made in a past post.....
"One of the things I remember the boy telling a girl at the city park, that she lived in a ****ty trailer while he lived in a house. Pretty sad for an 8 year old. He was good at insulting other kids. It's kind of pathetic that Eryn is posting under all these aliases. IMO"
So it's alright for one but not for the other to have discrimination against the poor? While at least now we know where he learned that from.....

[TheItalian]

GB...I was thinking more about CR's 2 1/2 hour walk around the block. It's mind boggling thinking about that length of time. That's almost a whole Super Bowl...walking around the block. I don't know any adult yet alone child that would walk around the block 2 1/2 hours. Even for athletes in training, this block of time is a lot, in one sitting.

And we are to believe that NO ONE saw him ...and he saw NO ONE. How unbelievable is that? The odds of no one seeing him and him seeing no one is a billion to 1. It didn't happen!

He was in the house planning this crime. He was laying out his weapon, the bullets, preparing for his stepmom and dad to get home. He was figuring out where would be the best spot to ambush his dad.

I believe it was more cold blooded and planned than most people realize. IMO

[TheItalian]

Tottenwess, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot that the boy was making fun of other kids. To me, that would be consistent of a troubled boy, thinking he was better than other kids and putting other kids down. JMO

[tottenwess]

Tottenwess, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot that the boy was making fun of other kids. To me, that would be consistent of a troubled boy, thinking he was better than other kids and putting other kids down. JMO

Don't thank me...you can thank Pena for what was his/her opinion. My point was to show how some poster have a vendetta. It's fairly easy for them to change their point of view...it's okay for the father to say such things but, not okay for the boy. If something is not right, then it's not alright, no matter who says it....that was my point.

[tottenwess]

I should also add...I have a hard time believing any comments made by Pena...I still believe he/she lives in Maine. My Opinion...

[Pena64]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.

The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO

[tottenwess]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.

The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO

I find it quite laughable the assumptions that you are making about a drug dealers' (or your words "gangsta") mode of operation.

[TheItalian]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.

The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO

The drug angle is more of a joke, since none was found in his system or in the car or at the Romeros. Has he had any more arrests since then? NO.. Pena you've got it right no "gangsta" is going use a .22, especially go upstairs in the boy's room to find one. You're right this drug angle is too funny! Like you said CR threatened, he did it, he admiited it, and he pled guilty, end of story.

[sdn8tv]

IMO Tim was busted for having drugs on him, not for being a drug dealer. The police totally exaggerated. But still that doesn't make Tim a BAD person. I would venture to say every SAINT on this board has done something in their life that they are not proud of.

But he didn't deserve to be killed by CR. Just like none of the posters on this board deserve to be shot by CR. I wish someone had taken CR's threats seriously. I wish the guns were locked away. I wish the teachers or parents had noticed the boy was slipping. The boy ruined his life at 8 and the lives of his dad and Tim. JMO.

So the police exaggerated this drug bust but went by the book for this case...what is it.

[sdn8tv]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.
The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO

Let's not forget he got six of the ten bullets. As far as the money, we don't know how much they started with...maybe they were only after the drugs, scale, and baggies that might have been in his truck

[sdn8tv]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.

The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO

Again...mr police man...this is mr drug dealer...I want to turn myself in...even though you have a suspect...I suddenly got a conscience...that's funny!

[sdn8tv]

The drug angle is more of a joke, since none was found in his system or in the car or at the Romeros. Has he had any more arrests since then? NO.. Pena you've got it right no "gangsta" is going use a .22, especially go upstairs in the boy's room to find one. You're right this drug angle is too funny! Like you said CR threatened, he did it, he admiited it, and he pled guilty, end of story.

His arrest was only one year recent...hardly distant past.

[sdn8tv]

Dear Pena64,

Speaking of laughing, here is a bit of the evidence you say does not exist. I am quoting from the DPS report, p. 582 (the San Carlos Tribal Police Report):

I removed the glass pipe with the milky white burn markings from in between the seat. With the pipe was five clear one inch by one inch bags containing a crystal like substance believed to Methamphetamines. These bags had a design on the outside. I removed a shoe box from conducted a search of the vehicle on the passenger and placing into the bed of the truck. Opening the box searching for the gun I saw two clear plastic bags containing a green leafy substance believed to be marijuana. A triple beam scale was located inside the box and may be used for measuring of the substance found. Several one inch by one inch bags were found in bulk with two receipts from a Trails head shop.
Continuing the search of the driver side I removing the fuse cover on the dash board. Searched under the dash board on the driver and passenger side. Looked into the air conditioning ducts, under the carriage of the vehicle, under the hood of the truck locating a black plastic trash bag. It contained what to appear as female underwear. While searching the area under the driver seat I located a wad of money near the seatbelt lock. The money was removed from the location after photographed.

http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/cm/content/documents.asp

Furthermore, if drug gangs were involved, I'm sure they came armed. But how cool to find a .22 already there, that doesn't belong to you or can be traced to you? IF THAT WAS THE PRINCIPAL WEAPON, which is in some doubt, as only two shells can be directly connected with CR's rifle.

You are prejudiced, I fear, and are entirely unwilling to consider any other evidence--to the point of discrediting any facts that do not play to your irrational belief.

So, as I said earlier, get your jollies elsewhere.

Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

Let's not forget also that Tim broke into the impound the next day, broke the window of his own truck to obtain "personal belonging". I doubt this was another paid of underwear?????

[sdn8tv]

Dear TheItalian,

Interesting point of view. Apparently you have lost your memory of childhood. I grew up in a small town. If I could be out and exploring, I was. And the time went so fast. Do you have any idea how many exciting and interesting things you can find in a small mound of dirt? Like say----an anthill? The freedom we had as little kids was awesome and unhappily, we tend to forget it as we grow older and no longer have time for anthills.

Of course, this doesn't mean that CR was doing exactly what I've outlined----only that it is a very real possibility. Particularly so when he knew he didn't have to be home before Tiffany.

Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

Or the St. John's Airport that was across the street.

[sdn8tv]

Wow 6 posts in a row!

Someone in Flagstaff was arrested for drugs, maybe that has something to do with this case? The Pope is catholic, maybe that has something to do with this case.

If Tim was a drug dealer why didn't they find any drugs? on the premises? NO in the car? NO on him? NO in his system? NO

News Flash! CR threatened to kill his parents. CR confessed to killing his dad. CR pled guilty.

That's too funny that people are still believing in the .22 packing, .22 borrowing drug gangs, having no knowledge of how to find Tim, driving many miles, being lucky and having an 8 minute window to do their deed. That's hilarious! JMO


Your personal discontent for this boy is really sad. It's obvious that you would rather fight than try and discuss anything. So per the moderator's request, if you want to continue to fight then we can do it through private message.

Who cares if I post six times in a row in a matter of 20 minutes...but who's counting? I take a few minutes to read and post and guess what...I post under one name.

[tottenwess]

Wow 6 posts in a row!

Someone in Flagstaff was arrested for drugs, maybe that has something to do with this case? The Pope is catholic, maybe that has something to do with this case.

If Tim was a drug dealer why didn't they find any drugs? on the premises? NO in the car? NO on him? NO in his system? NO

News Flash! CR threatened to kill his parents. CR confessed to killing his dad. CR pled guilty.

That's too funny that people are still believing in the .22 packing, .22 borrowing drug gangs, having no knowledge of how to find Tim, driving many miles, being lucky and having an 8 minute window to do their deed. That's hilarious! JMO

I don't understand why the drug gang would have to drive many miles...why can't they be from the same town?

Many drug gangs kill over "territory"....Tim "the new drug dealer" just arrived into their town and taking over their business...some gangs are willing to kill over that. And I'm sure they can do their killing real quick;They would not even need 8 minutes. Just my opinion.

[TheItalian]

I don't understand why the drug gang would have to drive many miles...why can't they be from the same town?

Many drug gangs kill over "territory"....Tim "the new drug dealer" just arrived into their town and taking over their business...some gangs are willing to kill over that. And I'm sure they can do their killing real quick;They would not even need 8 minutes. Just my opinion.

LE found no evidence of drugs, ruled out any drug connection, all evidence pointed
to CR. And he pled guilty, confessed, etc.

[TheItalian]

GB or Linda, do you have any idea what happens tomorrow with CR?

[tottenwess]

LE found no evidence of drugs, ruled out any drug connection, all evidence pointed
to CR. And he pled guilty, confessed, etc.

Perhaps, maybe he just didn't have anything on him at the time or maybe the stash was taken. The door of the truck was open...why? Was someone looking for something? I think these are reasonable questions that should send up red flags in any one's mind that is looking for the truth.
How do you know that the drug connection was ruled out?

[GentleBreeze]

GB or Linda, do you have any idea what happens tomorrow with CR?

I would think probably just an update on the status of the case and perhaps how much longer is needed before the doctors are through examining the boy and evaluating him.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Thanks for the report RB. I've always found it interesting that he wasn't charged with - at least - intent to distribute. Anyone in possession of little baggies and a scale in their vehicle is dealing. IMO

Also surprising is the fact that he only got probation. Guess he must have pled to a lesser charge! That sure convinces me he was GUILTY!!!

And BTW, it has been stated by many that Tim spent the majority of his free time at the local bar. I suppose that's when he wasn't attending CR's ball games. :rolleyes: A bar in a small town sure seems like a logical place to be running a little side business.

I say Tim was guilty and that is why he plead GUILTY. With the boy, along with other things, is what convinces me when this boy took his plea of a lessor degree its because he too is GUILTY!



imo.

[GentleBreeze]

Unlike your drug gang theory based on no evidence.....police reported nothing, no drugs...fact.

They also reported CR's lame excuse of walking around the block 2 1/2 hours without seeing anyone or anyone seeing him. He had GSR consistent with being the shooter, Fact. He was seen and heard at the crime scene, fact. It was his gun, fact. He made death threats, fact. It was his fingerprints on the ammo box, fact. He confessed, fact. He said he did it because he was mad at his dad, fact.

You can choose to ignore the facts. But that doesn't change the fact he did it, And that's why he pled guilty, IMO.

You can blame all the victims, but bottomline CR is the killer. IMO, Or follow your approach with no facts, just innuendo, and ignore police professionals.

I could understand the possible drug theory if the target had been Vinnie Romero and he was a mid level drug dealer but there is no evidence whatsoever that Vinnie did any type of drugs or sold drugs.

I must admit what I don't understand about the drug theory it is pertaining to Tim Romans but it was Tim Romans that the boy has already admitted to killing.:confused: So right there shows it had nothing to do with drugs. The only reason he would shoot Tim imo, is because he wasn't going to leave any witnesses that were within 25 feet of the home as this was going down.

When this case first unfolded there was an article where a neighbor said they would see Tim playing basketball at the Romero home. It seems he must have really liked that sport because other articles said he often came to his girls' games and would help coach. So if he was outside going about his life there it shows me he didn't think someone would come by and shoot him while he was outside the Romero home. It seems like he went to work, spent time with the Romeros and then went to the local bar to hangout with friends and the women and then return to San Carlos each week when he got off for the week.

I think Tim felt comfortable and relaxed in St. John and perhaps he did not so much when he returned to his hometown.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Why would police comment on Tim's drug dealings? They were certain they had their killer.

I don't recall seeing anything reported on what LE thought of the boy's alibi. Do you have a link to back this up?

CR's clothing did NOT have GSR consistent with being the shooter.

He was at the crime scene because that was his home. We have only Tanya's word that she heard the boy over the phone.

The "death threats" are hearsay, just as most of what you claim to have heard the boy say to others is hearsay. Means nothing and would not be admissible in court. IMO

Only 2 of the shots were from his gun and they were never able to prove he was holding it.

Do you just make up your own "evidence" to fit your theory? I'm not ignoring any facts, I just choose to look at ALL of the facts that we have - not just the ones that support my own position.

I think if the state expert had testified he would have said in his professional opinion it does show more than likely he was the shooter than not.

If he walked into a cloud of white smoke it would be airborne, sifting and swirling all around. It would not just be found on the front part of his clothing and not on the backside or shoulder areas. In the report it said the GSR was found on the sleeve and on the chest areas of his shirt and on his thighs. That is totally consistent with him holding the gun when it was fired and when he propped the gun on his thigh to eject and reload again.

The death threats are like all the other information that was collected from witnesses. It certainly doesn't carry less weight than any other statements given. It would not be hearsay. The witnesses heard it with their own ears coming from the mouth of the defendant.

ONLY two? :ohmy: You have conclusively 2 matched bullets taken out of dead men and it means nothing? Not one notation in that report that I can recall where it stated that the other bullets could be eliminated from coming from the chipmunk gun. Did I miss that they could exclude the rest as not coming from the suspected murder weapon?

There has been many a case where fingerprints on firearm weapons are unidentifiable. The case in TN that just aired recently had 7 prints found on the weapon. None of them could be identified. Like Beth Karas said more times than not, fingerprints are not identified on firearms.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

GentleBreeze, I know you've been respectful of my opinion and I feel the same about yours. You seem reasonable and open minded and have not been so harsh on the boy. I appreciate your effort to discuss this case in a reasonable manner.:thumbup:

I think TR was hiding out at the Romero house. I do not believe he gave up his drug activities "just like that"...He may not have been using but there is a good possibility he was still involved in the sales....When people involve themselves in the "drug world"..it's very hard to walk away from the drugs and the money....I think TR was keeping a low profile in St.Johns but he was frequenting a local bar and who knows...maybe he was bragging or telling the wrong people he could provide them with <insert drug of choice>.....SOMEONE could have followed them home and knew exactly where they lived. Vincent could have been collateral damage and TR the target.:wink:

I'm sorry but the drug angle should not be discounted. CR may have confessed but I think he gave in before St.Johns PD knew the WHOLE STORY. IIRC, when criminal checks were first done...no record came up for either man. Come to find out....one man had one. Not all PD's share or connect their information....It takes a lot of digging at times...leg work.

Well I do know it takes some finagling to get records from the Indian Reservation police.

But Vinnie was Hispanic and had lived in St. John all of his life. I think he tried to live a good life and tried hard to do what was right. I really don't think Vinnie had any record at all and I am not even sure he knew about Tim's past but maybe he knew that Tim was on probation and he was trying to help a coworker and friend out by giving him a place to stay, dirt cheap.

Even though I have never done drugs in my entire life, I do know some that have and if they got busted and were on probation they towed the line during their probationary period because they didn't want to take the chance of doing jail or prison time. So I am not even sure Tim was selling drugs around this time. Maybe the guy threatened to kill him because he didn't believe him if he told him he couldn't get him anymore drugs. Maybe he thought he was holding out on him or something.

I really don't know but even though Tim may have been dealing, I don't think he was big enough dealer that someone would knock him off and do it right in the middle of the broad daylight in a quiet community.

This case was 4 months old when the boy plead Guilty. I really think they did investigate all angles and just didn't find anything that pointed away from the boy. I don't think LE discounted it. They seem to be investigating all sorts of things after the boy was arrested. I just don't think they found evidence of anyone doing this but the one that was seen 2 minutes after the gunshots were heard.

I know I have been harsh on the boy sometimes, Donuts, but I don't cull any defendant when I am convinced they are guilty of murder. I don't look at their age but the acts I think they are guilty of doing.

Truly I can say, imo, this was one of the cruelest, cunning, heinous cases I have seen in quite a few years. Laying in wait is the most chilling murders of all, imo. Luring someone to their death is unconscionable.

JMO though.....

[GentleBreeze]

I'm confident Tim felt safe and relaxed, until that silly old death threat came up the week before his murder.....and that threat, most definitely, was NOT made by CR. Though some would like to have us believe he threatened to kill everyone in his path.

What did he do differently?

He went to work.
He still went to the local bar.
He still wooed his lover.
He still talked on the cell phone with his wife everyday.

Doesn't sound too scared to me.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes, and a defense "expert" would have testified just the opposite. There is a reason that most no longer rely on GSR as sound evidence.

I, personally, have not conclusively matched ANY bullets - and neither have you :laugh:. But your "experts" have and they cannot conclusively link the others to THAT gun. No you didn't miss that they could not tie the other bullets to that gun, but you have evidently missed the fact they might NOT have come from that gun.

And no fingerprints on the weapon either? My goodness, for a case that many feel must rely on forensic evidence, there isn't a lot of conclusive forensic evidence, is there? That WE know of anyway. Guess we may need to go by hearsay and innuendo.....:rolleyes:

The Feds are the only one that no longer test for GSR.

State cases have it often in murder cases and this is a State case not a federal case.

"Might not" is not good enough. Either they can be completely ruled out or they can't. In this particular case, they can't.

Even opposing experts do not lie when asked a simple question like "Can these bullets be ruled out as not being fired from this weapon?" "Can you say with certainty that these bullets weren't fired from this weapon?" He/she would have to say "No, I cannot", they would not perjure themselves. The state expert also would have testified that he cannot exclude them either.

As long as 2 are dead ringers and most of the rest have similar characteristics then they sure aren't excluded as not being fired from the suspect's weapon.

[GentleBreeze]

It's possible he was looking over his shoulder a bit more than usual, but we have no way of know that, do we?

Then again, it's also possible he was too arrogant to believe anyone would really have the nerve to harm him. Guess we'll never know that either.

Whether he was a big-time drug dealer or a two-bit wanna be dealer is not relevant. Folks who live within the drug culture as users or dealers are FAR more likely to be exposed to a criminal element and that very often means violence.

I doubt very much that Vincent knew of Tim's past or present illegal activities. I do feel he must have known about the other woman. Not that it's illegal.

I really don't understand how some people just can't wrap their minds around the possibility these murders were the result of some type of drug activity. And the time of day or circumstances are not shocking. Little Cole Puffinburger was kidnapped by drug dealers just a few blocks from my house at 6:00 on a beautiful, sunny, weekday morning. Mom and BF were tied up by at least 2 armed strangers and NO ONE on the block saw or heard anything. This was a weekday when people were up and going to work and school. It wasn't a rural, lightly populated area and still, no one saw anything out of the ordinary. And the crime was, IMO, extremely brazen and not at all unusual considering these were drug dealers.


Didn't he supposedly tell a woman about the threat? I think Tim was a big bull skater and who knows he may have just been lying about the threat. He may have had an ulterior motive......I just think he liked to dazzle the ladies and fed them a line of bull a lot of the time.

In that case did they shoot up the place with multiple gunshots?

I mean the neighbors across the street heard 3 or 4 of the 6 shots that killed Tim, imo The houses didnt sit that far apart, the street is not all that wide.

imo

[sdn8tv]

Didn't he supposedly tell a woman about the threat? I think Tim was a big bull skater and who knows he may have just been lying about the threat. He may have had an ulterior motive......I just think he liked to dazzle the ladies and fed them a line of bull a lot of the time.

In that case did they shoot up the place with multiple gunshots?

I mean the neighbors across the street heard 3 or 4 of the 6 shots that killed Tim, imo The houses didnt sit that far apart, the street is not all that wide.
imo


In a previous post on this thread you were saying how far apart the houses were so why would he hollar from "four" houses down the street. Which is it?

[sdn8tv]

Didn't he supposedly tell a woman about the threat? I think Tim was a big bull skater and who knows he may have just been lying about the threat. He may have had an ulterior motive......I just think he liked to dazzle the ladies and fed them a line of bull a lot of the time.

In that case did they shoot up the place with multiple gunshots?

I mean the neighbors across the street heard 3 or 4 of the 6 shots that killed Tim, imo The houses didnt sit that far apart, the street is not all that wide.

imo

Post 173 by GB.

It is obvious that the homes in that area are wide open lots. It just makes no logical sense imo that someone did not see him, even once, during that time and in 2.5 hours he would have had to go around the block more than the 10 or 11 times he said he did.

Although you did say three not four houses, however the boy said two.

[GentleBreeze]

Post 173 by GB.

It is obvious that the homes in that area are wide open lots. It just makes no logical sense imo that someone did not see him, even once, during that time and in 2.5 hours he would have had to go around the block more than the 10 or 11 times he said he did.

Although you did say three not four houses, however the boy said two.

The homes on the Romero side of the street are not right up against each other. They seem to be very open with little trees or other obstructions.

But I was talking about the neighbor right across the street from the Romeros not the houses sitting on the same side of the street.

They were the ones able to hear the gunshots and see the boy petting the dog and walking away after the crimes had just occurred.

If it was two houses away from his own home then that is a far distance to be yelling for someone already that they didn't even see.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

In a previous post on this thread you were saying how far apart the houses were so why would he hollar from "four" houses down the street. Which is it?

I am not talking about "down" the street but right "across" the street in front of the Romero home where the boy was seen and the same neighbor heard gunshots.

[TheItalian]

A "DRUG LORD":lol::lol:

Got a LINK?

Linda, there is NO PROOF that drug lords comiited these murders, however, there is a lot of proof CR did.

There is NO PROOF drugs were involved in this case, police ruled it out, no drugs were found, on the body, in the house, in their systems, in the car. If anyone thinks there is actual proof of a drug connection, they must be on drugs. If anyone has any evidence of drugs in these murders, let me know. JMO

[sdn8tv]

Tim spent most of his time at work , at the Romeros and helping neighbors. There was very little "bar" or "free" time, not conducive to any kind of dealer. Every time I saw Tim, Vince was putting him to work doing something. There was no idle time, hardly.

Police found no evidence of a drug connection, no drugs on them, none at the house, none in their systems, so unless you've found evidence they haven't, please enlighten me. Feel free to present your evidence to police.

Since Tim was on probation, it doesn't make sense that he would want to risk jail time, supporting his daughters.

But this isn't about Tim, it's about CR. All evidence pointed to CR. The GSR pattern consistent with him being the shooter is hard to refute. It was his gun and bullets. His fingerprints, his lame 2 1/2 hour alibi. Him being seen and heard at the scene. His confession and later his guilty plea.

But keep on trying to blame the victims, it won't change my opinion, since you have no evidence at all. My opinion.

Obviously you missed this part of the reports. Almost everyone interviewed about Tim (except his wife and daughters) indicated he quite a bit of time at the, even Tiffany acknowledged this. Enough time to get "engaged" to another woman while he was still married.

[sdn8tv]

The homes on the Romero side of the street are not right up against each other. They seem to be very open with little trees or other obstructions.

But I was talking about the neighbor right across the street from the Romeros not the houses sitting on the same side of the street.

They were the ones able to hear the gunshots and see the boy petting the dog and walking away after the crimes had just occurred.

If it was two houses away from his own home then that is a far distance to be yelling for someone already that they didn't even see.

imo

Anyone can google earth the address and see what it looks like.

[sdn8tv]

Only two in a row this time....

[tottenwess]

Linda, there is NO PROOF that drug lords comiited these murders, however, there is a lot of proof CR did.

There is NO PROOF drugs were involved in this case, police ruled it out, no drugs were found, on the body, in the house, in their systems, in the car. If anyone thinks there is actual proof of a drug connection, they must be on drugs. If anyone has any evidence of drugs in these murders, let me know. JMO
TheItalian, I asked you yesterday, as well as a few other posters, and we never received a response. So I'll ask again....How do you know that the police ruled out the drug angle? Did they even investigate it?

[GentleBreeze]

Only two in a row this time....

Counting his own home it is still the third house. He supposedly was two houses away from his own home.

imo

[sdn8tv]

Counting his own home it is still the third house. He supposedly was two houses away from his own home.

imo

Sorry GB, I meant my posts were two in a row. Apparently some poster are counting my posts. Sorry for the confusion

[tottenwess]

How do you know they didn't? That would be standard procedure to investigate all leads. Italian has it right! JMO

I don't think nothing is standard procedure with this police department. TheItalian seems to be in the know...he stated it was ruled out, I would like to know how he is privy to this information.

[TheItalian]

I don't think nothing is standard procedure with this police department. TheItalian seems to be in the know...he stated it was ruled out, I would like to know how he is privy to this information.

IMO all leads were investigated and PROVEN dead ends except CR.

[GentleBreeze]

Well your opinion is just that. YOU have no idea if the Police Depts. involved continued "investigating" once CR...."confessed". I've said it before and I'll say it again...INVESTIGATIONS are costly...I highly doubt the Chief said "We have a confession but keep investigating"..."Spend as much O.T. as necessary"....Call your local PD and ask if they'd get the green light to continue "working" on a investigation once someone confessed...It becomes inactive. Once someone confesses..it goes to the DA's office to be handled. They are not going to look for something to get the person arrested off the hook....They are in place to prosecute the criminal....not to "find" reasons to drop the case.:rolleyes:

I wish for CR's sake Eryn had the money to hire a private investigator....That person would be able to dig up the information for the right amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$

Hi Donuts!

I am confused why you think LE doesn't do any investigating once a defendant has confessed. I have seen confessions from defendants and the police had only begun investigating and certainly didn't stop.

LE has to investigate all avenues. It is their duty to hand over a fully investigated case to the Prosecutors along with statements of witnesses that may put the victim in a bad or good light and the same for the defendant. With reciprocal discovery there are no surprises in court by either the defense or the state. They both know the full investigation and what it revealed.

You say they didn't investigate but that just doesn't ring true to me. If that were the case they wouldn't have investigated to see if Tim Romans had a criminal record or take a statement from the woman who alleged he assaulted her or the other witness that said Tim told her someone had threatened to kill him. And the boy certainly wasn't down at the power plant or at the local bar yet they took several statements from those people. Even the neighbors were asked about their relationship to all three parties (Vinnie, Tim and the kid) They didn't redact out the ones that were favorable to the boy.

So I think they over investigated this case.

imo

[sdn8tv]

Maybe Eryn could spend some of her interview money or book deal money to hire an investigator and waste her money chasing dead ends. Or maybe the investigator will find out that CR did it. IMO.

Check your facts...AGAIN...GMA doesn't pay for their interviews. The second interview was from SHOW LOW...

[sdn8tv]

I'm confused as to why you believe LE did an in-depth investigation after the confession. Do you live in a magical place where $$$$ is a never-ending resource that allows for such investigations? I would venture to say that most of us do not.

LE took cursory statements from a bunch of folks - very few of which had negative comments about the boy and many of which claimed they didn't really know Tim Romans. Yet he was such a good neighbor and was at CR's ball games, and always helping people in the community.... I call BS! It's much more likely he was cheating on his wife and dealing drugs while hanging out at the local bar. I don't suppose too many folks would willingly come forward with that information. :rolleyes:


Ever notice when somone dies a situation unexpected they are "always the nicest people". People don't say what they really say what they want, he was such a "fill in the blank"

[sdn8tv]

So did anyone figure out who told CR that he would only be in "juvie for 2-3 days":shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

So did anyone figure out who told CR that he would only be in "juvie for 2-3 days":shrug:

Morning!

I have never heard that before?

Who's witness statement was it that stated that? I don't recall that being brought up in the reports.:confused:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I agree, OVER INVESTIGATED, because it was HIGH PROFILE. JMO.

And imo, Wood/Brewer knew that and the SODDI defense wasn't gonna fly. Remember none of us has seen all the investigation and what it revealed. We only know a part of the investigation. When the kid plead, it sealed the rest up tight as a tomb

No way would a DA/LE not investigate a high profile case fully knowing the defense would bring that up at trial. NO WAY. Nope, no surprises on either side. They both have to handover discovery to each other.

There sure wasn't a shortage of law enforcement officers, both local and state, working on this case either.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Nope. You will eat these words when the real killer(s) is/are brought to justice. IMO...:lol:

Sorry, Mama, I had to take two of your smilies.


:lol::lol:

[GentleBreeze]

I'm confused as to why you believe LE did an in-depth investigation after the confession. Do you live in a magical place where $$$$ is a never-ending resource that allows for such investigations? I would venture to say that most of us do not.

LE took cursory statements from a bunch of folks - very few of which had negative comments about the boy and many of which claimed they didn't really know Tim Romans. Yet he was such a good neighbor and was at CR's ball games, and always helping people in the community.... I call BS! It's much more likely he was cheating on his wife and dealing drugs while hanging out at the local bar. I don't suppose too many folks would willingly come forward with that information. :rolleyes:

Why would he have to be helping a neighbor? He may have helped some of his coworkers who did not live in the Romero neighborhood. In fact, I remember reading that the very day he and Vinnie were murdered, they both were going to help a friend work on or build a chest of drawers, that very afternoon. Sounds like pretty obliging men to me. I wouldn't expect the neighbors to know Romans, he had not lived there long and only worked at the power plant Monday through Wednesday.

There is nothing that I have read that the SJPD has even said that drugs were being sold at that bar. In fact not once did the SJPD say they suspected Romans of using or dealing drugs in their town.

imo

[eagargal]

I didn't see anything posted on the county website for the status hearing????

Hello everyone!

I've been on vacation (World figure skating championships, whoo-hoo!). Here is a press release from the Apache Co. website:

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20April%202,%202009.pd f

Now I've got to catch up at work. Have a good day!

[tottenwess]

Most druggies don't hold down dependable jobs. I see no evidence of a drug link either. JMO

Sorry Pena, but you are assuming again....perhaps you should read some statistics, it will be very enlightening. From my experience (professionally not personally) the average drug dealer will resort to dealing as a supplemental income.

[TheItalian]

Do you have a link of stats? On the san carlos unemployment and drug use is high and they seem correlated.

[TheItalian]

My sources say that the first few days while the stepmom was paralyzed at Flagstaff, Nicole took Tiffany's debit card and cleaned out her accounts. Later that night Nicole allegedly got in a bar fight requiring stitches, then she skipped off with all of Tiffany's money.

Nicole also tried to get a rental car, misrepresenting some of Tiffany's friends it was for her.
If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, that is pretty low taking advantage of a paralyzed woman like that. JMO.

I don't know what to make of this. On one hand when your husband is murdered I would assume you would reach out to others for support, i.e., Nicole. But perhaps bad judgement becoming better friends with this girl if she is "living" off of you or taking advantage of you

[sdn8tv]

My sources say that the first few days while the stepmom was paralyzed at Flagstaff, Nicole took Tiffany's debit card and cleaned out her accounts. Later that night Nicole allegedly got in a bar fight requiring stitches, then she skipped off with all of Tiffany's money.

Nicole also tried to get a rental car, misrepresenting some of Tiffany's friends it was for her.
If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, that is pretty low taking advantage of a paralyzed woman like that. JMO.
Especially one that Tiffany considered to be a friend who was the ONLY other person at the Romero house that day. The police also seemed overly interested in her.

[sdn8tv]

Morning!

I have never heard that before?

Who's witness statement was it that stated that? I don't recall that being brought up in the reports.:confused:

imo

It is in the juvenile intake reports.

[tottenwess]

Do you have a link of stats? On the san carlos unemployment and drug use is high and they seem correlated.

The statistics I have, have always been in book form, so a little hard to post...but go to the Rand Corporation for any statistics you may need.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R3894/ - this report is in regards to drug dealing and drug use...it will take awhile to download the whole report (it's free) but, right in the introduction it does state that at the time of arrest that more than one-half of dealers are legitimately employed. Through out my college years this is one of the many things that I was taught and if you find something different I need to stop some student loan checks.

[GentleBreeze]

It is in the juvenile intake reports.

Thanks. I went back and read it. The intake was done on the same day he was arrested and time was 12:59.

It seems no one told him that but that is what he told them in the intake department.

He went onto say if he got mad or sad he could talk to a nurse.

Maybe he thought all kids go to juvie for a short time.

Also his lawyer right off the bat was saying they were going to get him out of there.

imo

[sdn8tv]

so everyone is abuzz in St. Johns that Eryn and the boy are living at the grandma's, Liz Romero, here in St. Johns. A lot of mad people, IMO.

Why would people be mad because a grandmother took her grandson in. That seems to me like a very positive thing.

[sdn8tv]

Thanks. I went back and read it. The intake was done on the same day he was arrested and time was 12:59.

It seems no one told him that but that is what he told them in the intake department. I just don't think too many 8 year olds know too much about juvie. I believe someone led him to believe this.
He went onto say if he got mad or sad he could talk to a nurse. He didn't say this, the intake coordinator said this.
Maybe he thought all kids go to juvie for a short time.

Also his lawyer right off the bat was saying they were going to get him out of there. He wasn't appointed a lawyer until Friday. This was all done on Thursday.
imo


My posts are above in red.

[GentleBreeze]

My posts are above in red.

Ok I will go back and read it again. My eyes are about out from doing taxes for two weeks. lol

Oh I don't agree. That has just become a highly used slang word by younger and younger kids. They even use it in some cartoons.

And today even good kids will pipe up and tell another kid they are going to go to juvie if they don't behave. lol

I am sure in his school some had had juvenile problems and may have been sent to juvie or he heard someone had when he was on the bus with other kids. I think he knew this is where kids go when they do bad things and he had it in his mind that they dont stay very long.

I don't find that alarming at all.

I know he wasn't officially confirmed until two days later but I thought he came on board earlier than that.

imo

[mrrogers]

I agree, OVER INVESTIGATED, because it was HIGH PROFILE. JMO.

well i kinda doubt that since they quit investingating at 11am the next day that information was provided by one of the principals in the case whose name i will gladly supply upon request

[TheItalian]

Why would people be mad because a grandmother took her grandson in. That seems to me like a very positive thing.

A very negative thing, IMO, for the school and the community.

[mrrogers]

Morning!

I have never heard that before?

Who's witness statement was it that stated that? I don't recall that being brought up in the reports.:confused:

imo

it was tiffany iirc she allegedly went and told him to keep his mouth shut and hed be out in two or three days.. i read that somewhere but forget where so i ll just use the entire case file as the source

[mrrogers]

The statistics I have, have always been in book form, so a little hard to post...but go to the Rand Corporation for any statistics you may need.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R3894/ - this report is in regards to drug dealing and drug use...it will take awhile to download the whole report (it's free) but, right in the introduction it does state that at the time of arrest that more than one-half of dealers are legitimately employed. Through out my college years this is one of the many things that I was taught and if you find something different I need to stop some student loan checks.

well ill check it out i kinda got the lay of the land up in these parts

[TheItalian]

well i kinda doubt that since they quit investingating at 11am the next day that information was provided by one of the principals in the case whose name i will gladly supply upon request

That's just FOOLISH! I'v read people there being interviewed three times. IMO

[TheItalian]

How can that boy be LOOSE in St. Johns after killing 2 people there, is beyond me! My opinion.

[mrrogers]

I agree, OVER INVESTIGATED, because it was HIGH PROFILE. JMO.

well i dont see how it was over investigated when they stopped investigating at 11 am the day after the boy gave his cooerced confession
really what needs to happen is to be sentenced and appeal and have it re investigates by the defendants own people

and does anyone know anything about nicole stealing tiffanys atm and cleaning her out and running off
in case my word isnt good enought as it has sometimes been implied to be i have a direct witness to the whole post everything except the nicole stuff

[tottenwess]

How can that boy be LOOSE in St. Johns after killing 2 people there, is beyond me! My opinion.

It's never been proven that he killed two people....he was only found guilty in the court of public opinion. Sure would hate to have you as a jury. IMO

[mrrogers]

How can that boy be LOOSE in St. Johns after killing 2 people there, is beyond me! My opinion.

thats an easy one the judge just doesnt seem to consider him a danger to the public or himself
i ll bet ya 50 that thats how his sentencing goes to . see the thing is you think he did kill the people. apparently the judge isnt completely satisfied or he wouldnt be out . and without bond to i might add

[mrrogers]

It's never been proven that he killed two people....he was only found guilty in the court of public opinion. Sure would hate to have you as a jury. IMO

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[tottenwess]

They didn't have to prove it. He pled guilty. Plea deal. Hopefully the judge will use some common sense and put the boy in some psychological treatment center.

Again, he plead guilty to one count of negligent homicide. I do think that the judge is using common sense by keeping the boy out of juvie and with his mother.

[TheItalian]

Again, he plead guilty to one count of negligent homicide. I do think that the judge is using common sense by keeping the boy out of juvie and with his mother.


Again, he killed 2 men in premeditated murder. The judge is crazy to let this boy out, without extensive therapy, IMO.

[tottenwess]

Again, he killed 2 men in premeditated murder. The judge is crazy to let this boy out, without extensive therapy, IMO.

Again, plead guilty to one negligent homicide....NO PREMEDITATION. Homicide is something you don't have to apologize for or state why you did it, because you did it without malice.

[mrrogers]

MrRogers:
Quote:
"why they gave him a pleas they were afraid they would lose in court
that tells me all i need to know"

I respectfully disagree. All across this land 90% of the time the defendant pleas out their case instead of going to trial. This case is hardly different but more of the majority norm.

I think they both gave and took a plea because BOTH were afraid they would lose in court.

The stakes were too high if that happened for either side.

I think they plead this one down simply because of this boy's age. He was a pariah......he did not fit in anywhere.... not the juvenile justice system and he did not fit into an adult system.

His age gave him the best advantage over all other defendants because no 8 or 9 year old had started murdering two people at that age, at least not in AZ and he may be the youngest ever in the US to do so.

imoo

i NOTICE IN YOUR REPLY THE LINKS ARE GONE
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
THERE IT IS AGAIN that is what i base my statement on so if you dont like it contact the people in the video.
ID SURE LIKE TO SEE YOUR SOURCE FOR THE STATEMENT THAT 90 PERCENT OF CASES ARE PLEAD OUT.
well you can believe what you want to believe and so can i . i personally thing the evidence against the boy is not good enough to get a conviction
all along youve called this a "sweetheart deal cr hangs out for 9 years anywhere he wants and walks free at 18. its Almost as good as no conviction
but not quitel. and youve watched the videos same as i have and youve seen that the agreement also gives him the treatment he needs.
basically i just believe hes innocent after an impartial review of the evidence
and in my opinion youll hang on the tinest thread to aruue guilt. o and i also answered your post on the other site you post on as jadedblueeys but in your heart youll always be oceanblueeyes .

[mrrogers]

Hello, the boy did the killing, not the stepmom. Get your facts straight. IMO

you can belive that if you want but i hope the day comes when the conviction is overturned.

[mrrogers]

To me the drug angle is a futile attempt by some of CR's supporters to place blame on a victim, instead of the real perp, CR.

It is laughable, because there is no proof Tim was a dealer. If San Carlos police were concerned about him, they would have undercover on him. If hypothetically, a hit were to be made, it would be done on their own turf, perhaps observing his habits over a period of time. Tim already had a well paying job that occupied most of his time working as a welder in St. Johns. He had no time for drug dealing, and living at the Romero house, would make it extremely hard to be a dealer...

It is more laughable thinking that drug "gangstas" would use. 22's. It is even more laughable that they would make the trip without a gun, and without knowing Tim's whereabouts, and to do this in an eight minute window, and without being seen.

And what's more laughable is that that they didn't kick Tim or cut up his face to make an example of him, damage any of the property, or take any of the money.

The most laughable thing is they would go up to CR's room and find his gun and his bullets, instead of Vince's guns.

No one came forward except CR, who had the lame 2 1/2 hour alibi, who confessed, who made death threats, who pled guilty, whose gun was the murder weapon. Too funny! Not funny that the men died, not funny that CR did it, but funny that anyone would believe such a hilarious story. JMO
pickup the phone call the san carlos police since you wont read the
http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com
they will tell you what they told neckle and rodriquez that they consider him a low level drug dealrer

[mrrogers]

I would appreciate that info, mrrogers. Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.
IN Order to be in compliance with the gag order on this case and to protect my sources job which it is mostly im retracting this statement
sorry for any inconvience but their job is more important to me than putting them in jeoprady of losing it if i was to use there name. i would suggest that if yuour really that interested to go to saint johns and do some investigating but i cant put my sources job in jeporady

[mrrogers]

i NOTICE IN YOUR REPLY THE LINKS ARE GONE
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
THERE IT IS AGAIN that is what i base my statement on so if you dont like it contact the people in the video.
THE ULTIMATE DECISION WAS THE BOYS CHECK THE LINK
http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=19706@knxv.dayport.com
ID SURE LIKE TO SEE YOUR SOURCE FOR THE STATEMENT THAT 90 PERCENT OF CASES ARE PLEAD OUT.
well you can believe what you want to believe and so can i . i personally thing the evidence against the boy is not good enough to get a conviction
all along youve called this a "sweetheart deal cr hangs out for 9 years anywhere he wants and walks free at 18. its Almost as good as no conviction

but not quitel. and youve watched the videos same as i have and youve seen that the agreement also gives him the treatment he needs.
basically i just believe hes innocent after an impartial review of the evidence
and in my opinion youll hang on the tinest thread to aruue guilt. o and i also answered your post on the other site you post on as jadedblueeys but in your heart youll always be oceanblueeyes .
in his post plea statement wood said they were most worried about =the judge allowing the dropping of only one murder charge which
would be hanging over his head

[mrrogers]

I would appreciate that info, mrrogers. Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

I COULDNT USE MY SOURCE BUT THIS DOCUMENT PROVES IT LOOK ABOUT THE LAST 5-6 PAGES

http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/womack.pdf

[mrrogers]

IN Order to be in compliance with the gag order on this case and to protect my sources job which it is mostly im retracting this statement
sorry for any inconvience but their job is more important to me than putting them in jeoprady of losing it if i was to use there name. i would suggest that if yuour really that interested to go to saint johns and do some investigating but i cant put my sources job in jeporady

http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/womack.pdf
LAST FIVE OR SIX PAGES

[GentleBreeze]

i NOTICE IN YOUR REPLY THE LINKS ARE GONE
http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717
THERE IT IS AGAIN that is what i base my statement on so if you don't like it contact the people in the video.
ID SURE LIKE TO SEE YOUR SOURCE FOR THE STATEMENT THAT 90 PERCENT OF CASES ARE PLEAD OUT.
well you can believe what you want to believe and so can i . i personally thing the evidence against the boy is not good enough to get a conviction
all along you've called this a "sweetheart deal cr hangs out for 9 years anywhere he wants and walks free at 18. its Almost as good as no conviction
but not quitel. and youve watched the videos same as i have and youve seen that the agreement also gives him the treatment he needs.
basically i just believe hes innocent after an impartial review of the evidence
and in my opinion youll hang on the tinest thread to aruue guilt. o and i also answered your post on the other site you post on as jadedblueeys but in your heart youll always be oceanblueeyes .

You really don't like adhering to TOS rules on this site do you, mrrogers? You are only to refer to any poster here by the nic they go by. I suggest you grow up and quit being so whiny.

I will be glad to provide you.

Here is one link but I can certainly link more. That has long been very common knowledge that only around 10% of criminal cases ever makes it to trial.

http://books.google.com/books?id=R2F3Ek1z44kC&pg=PA431&lpg=PA431&dq=Are+most+criminal+cases+plead+out%3F&source=bl&ots=EjTMeVmA6K&sig=GkQMWK7Q12tdpUumv2mCxYHa90s&hl=en&ei=cJDXSZ6bFdWwtge36N3gDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#PPA433,M1

PAGE 433

LEFT SIDE OF PAGE, LAST PARAGRAPH.

Of course if you had really wanted to know the answer you could have already googled it for yourself.

I know what I saw and heard and no where on the video did it say the DA was afraid of losing because he didn't have the evidence.

Imo, I see no impartiality in any of your posts.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

There are several benefits to plea bargaining in a criminal case. A plea bargain reduced the time, resources, and uncertainty in a criminal case. Plea bargaining is beneficial to prosecutors and judges because a plea bargain helps move along a crowded calendar, prevent overworking staff, eases the burden on witnesses and prospective jurors, and can reduce the overcrowding of jails.

A plea bargain can also be advantageous to the defendant in a number of ways. A plea bargain can help a defendant in custody get out of jail immediately or sooner than they would be released if their case went to trial. A plea bargain can also resolve the matter quickly, costing the defendant less time and money, avoid publicity, and keep others out of the case. A plea bargain can also result in a reduction of charges and penalties. A plea bargain can help a defendant avoid stigmatizing charges, harsh sentencing, and other deleterious consequences they face through a trial.


http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/plea.html

If you google you will also see that out of every 10 criminal cases, 9 of them are plead out.

imo

[Columbo]

He plead guilty in JUVENILE court. Juveniles never have to post bond:rolleyes:

He's only out until he's sentenced, that will all end when the evaluations are completed and a bed is found in a secure residential facility. IMO

Do you really think they'll foot the bill for his mother to stay home and watch him for the next 9 years?

BTW How's that appeal coming along? lol


You really show the content of you heart here. I assume your proud of it. Watch out, it may be your un-doing. :sad:

[GentleBreeze]

Thank you for this mrrogers. Very illuminating. I sure hope that, when they continued "over" investigating these homicides (after they shut it down that is), they took a much closer look at Amos, the married barmaid and Misty with the "psycho" boyfriend, who appears to have lied about her relationship with Tim.

So the Arizona DPS state investigation, which was around 2,000 pages of documents, were just made up and the DPS really didn't investigate anything after 11/06 at noon?:confused:

How would anyone know that when all the rest of the investigative reports have now been sealed due to the plea deal in Feb.?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

An excerpt from my post above.

A plea bargain can also be advantageous to the defendant in a number of ways. A plea bargain can help a defendant in custody get out of jail immediately or sooner than they would be released if their case went to trial. A plea bargain can also resolve the matter quickly, costing the defendant less time and money, avoid publicity, and keep others out of the case.

Wood knew if they plead nothing else would ever be revealed.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

The plea goes both ways...It also gets the State off the hook.:wink:

IMO, if this case went to court; the whole investigation would have been exposed. LEO's/1st. responders and the Chief would have had to testify. Moving the bodies, IMO was the first screw up....

I do not type that to be critical of LE. It's just my opinion based on everything I've read related to this case.:smile:

Hi Donuts.

Of course it goes both ways that is why most cases are plead out. Both sides win and lose to some degree but 9 times out of ten a defense attorney will tell their client it is much better to plea a case down rather than risking being convicted of a much higher degree if there is a trial. But I dont agree that it got the DA off the hook. Now if there was no plea of GUILT then maybe but that is not the case here. The DA got that admission.

I have no worries about the investigation that was done by local and state agencies. Imo, it was over investigated due to its rare nature of the defendant and high profile. In fact I would like nothing better than to see all of it, not just a part but that isn't going to happen due to it being plead out.

I also don't think JR would have had a problem with the bodies already being moved. I firmly believe that LE have full documented with photos, video and also written statements, exactly how the bodies were found and the entire crime scene area. A forensic picture is worth a thousand words and that is why they are used very often in murder cases. Roca is intelligent and perfectly understands when looking at crime scene photos to know that they match up with the autopsies and forensic evidence.

imo

[Columbo]

The thread isn't about me.

I have no shame in my feelings toward murderers.



Your response was very forthcoming.
How long are you in for?

[sdn8tv]

Each individual grieves in their own way, that's part of what makes us unique. What is really sad is when family members feel the need to bash a really troubled child in a very horrible public way.:angry:

[TheItalian]

Each individual grieves in their own way, that's part of what makes us unique. What is really sad is when family members feel the need to bash a really troubled child in a very horrible public way.:angry:

No, what's really sad is when a double murderer gets away with it, with no punishment or treatment.

And what's sadder is the victims are all but forgotten. My Opin.

[GentleBreeze]

If she presses charges, she'll be in the news, and it appears she's avoided being in the news from day 1...guess she will probably chalk it up to experience...and say BYE to Nicole...I guess it's really a non issue, and just a statement to Nicole's character. It doesn't have anything to do with the case, since CR was the shooter, IMO.

I would think at this time in Tiffany's life she has much more important matters to contend with and to consider than being taken by someone whom she thought was her friend.

I pray everyday that she improves and her outcome is better than first expected.

imo

[TheItalian]

According to one of the teachers, CR was expelled. I don't think that can get the school district off the hook for home schooling, though.

[sdn8tv]

Someone here seems to know a lot about the school district. I wonder if we have an employee of the district here????

[tottenwess]

Dear Pena64 and the rest of the "concerned" citizens of the Saint Johns area (alleged):

I too am a concerned citizen. I am very concerned that the bedrock ideal of a presumption of innocence is the right of all Americans. I am very concerned that you are willing to blow up a coerced confession and a plea deal for negligent homicide into a "double murder." I'd like to remind you that CR did not plead to a murder charge and that there are many reasons for accepting a plea of negligent homicide EVEN IN CR IS INNOCENT. As a taxpayer, like you, I am deeply concerned that my taxes go to support the basic rights of the justice system. I am also concerned that you are quick to exclude CR from your list of "victims"--without convincing evidence to that effect.

And lastly, I'd like to remind you of another basic principle:

People in glass houses should not throw stones.


Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: - I would give you more thumbs-up but only allowed three! I would be concerned for my child if I lived in this County...not because of CR but how the juvenile system works there and the police department that blatantly ignores a child's civil rights.

[sdn8tv]

Not an employee of the school, just a concerned person who is seeking justice for the "forgotten" victims. A "concerned" member of the community who doesn't want a double murderer "loose" on the streets. A "distraught" parents who doesn't want my children to come into "contact" with CR. A taxpayer who "resents" paying for this boy's outrageous acts. IMO.

Interesting that you felt the need to reply...I didn't mention who???

For Clarification
Pled guilty to ONE COUNT NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE! The only thing DOUBLE about this is that there are more people involved!

[GentleBreeze]

Dear Pena64 and the rest of the "concerned" citizens of the Saint Johns area (alleged):

I too am a concerned citizen. I am very concerned that the bedrock ideal of a presumption of innocence is the right of all Americans. I am very concerned that you are willing to blow up a coerced confession and a plea deal for negligent homicide into a "double murder." I'd like to remind you that CR did not plead to a murder charge and that there are many reasons for accepting a plea of negligent homicide EVEN IN CR IS INNOCENT. As a taxpayer, like you, I am deeply concerned that my taxes go to support the basic rights of the justice system. I am also concerned that you are quick to exclude CR from your list of "victims"--without convincing evidence to that effect.

And lastly, I'd like to remind you of another basic principle:

People in glass houses should not throw stones.


Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

I do believe Pena and that they are a citizen of St John. I also believe there is no criteria on a crime message board that stipulates people aren't entitled to believe what they believe or interpret the evidence the way they interpret it.

I have no clue what your reference means "People in glass houses should not throw stones" unless you are saying that Pena themselves has also plead guilty to killing someone and I highly doubt that is even a probability. No one is perfect. By your assumption that no one can throw stones and if so, this would mean that human beings couldn't sit in judgment of defendants everyday based on their own "glass house" issue, which unless they are prefect, they have. That is unrealistic. In our daily lives we judge others constantly...politicians, criminals, kids that are wanting to befriend our children, coworkers that are either liked or disliked, bosses.........people that makes us feel uncomfortable and creeped out when we are out and about in society.

You have no evidence to support that this plea deal was coerced or this kid is actually innocent. There is no presumption of innocence anymore. He has plead guilty. That is nothing more than your entitled opinion...at least Pena bases part of his beliefs of the boy's guilt on the fact that he plead guilty to killing Tim Romans and I have seen nothing that refutes that fact.

Pena is not bound by any law that he has to accept that the boy only killed Tim Romans. That is about as foolish as saying that because OJ was found Not Guilty in his murder case, people aren't allowed to believe he is, when the last poll done that I saw, about Ron and Nicole's murders showed 87% believe he did brutally murder both of them.

I am sure the feeling is mutual. I think the towns people of St. John wishes the boy would move and I am sure the kid and his mom feels that pressure and want to move too and I do feel that the court will agree to have him live in MS or wherever the mom decides to live this time.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Someone here seems to know a lot about the school district. I wonder if we have an employee of the district here????

I would think that a concerned parent and citizen of St. John would know all about the school district. What caring parent doesn't know those things?

imo

[mrrogers]

positive opinions of st johns residents for 9 year old boy to attend school there

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20293455&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

starting at bottom of page

[TheItalian]

GB, the reason as a parent I am concerned, is that a student who goes to Coronado Elementary school is a playmate of CR. This playmate of CR came to school explaining how CR told him how a bullet goes in one part of the head and comes out the other. I do not want other "friends" of CR who associate with him sharing grizzly details to other students at school, and certainly not my child. So even if CR doesn't go to school his negative influence can spread to other children. What would be best for the child, the mother and the community is for CR to move away, and be someone else's proble. IMO

I agree. I wouldn't want a double murderer living near me, or having contact with my children.

How does it cost $1000 to go to Phoenix??? the defense atty is full of crap.

[TheItalian]

"Williams said at one time Bloomfield and her son had been staying with someone who had a criminal record, unbeknownst to Bloomfield. He said when the juvenile probation department brought the issue up, the two moved."

White Mtn. Indep.

Looks like they've already violated probation, wonderful!

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

"Williams said at one time Bloomfield and her son had been staying with someone who had a criminal record, unbeknownst to Bloomfield. He said when the juvenile probation department brought the issue up, the two moved."

White Mtn. Indep.

Looks like they've already violated probation, wonderful!

JMO

Who in the heck was she hanging around with that would have a criminal record?:scared:

This part is interesting too. So they just want to disregard the plea agreement that all parties agreed to?

"Judge Michael Roca reminded the court of one of the conditions of the juvenile's plea agreement, that he is not to be enrolled in any public, private or charter school until he is determined to not pose a threat to himself or others by an evaluating psychiatrist."

And that hasn't even happened yet or hadn't when the last hearing was held. What's the hold up?

LOL, did you read the comment section (BTW a total of 6 comments) I guess some feel that is all the citizens in St. John and half of the 6 had an adverse comments about the boy attending public school there. And how do we even know any of these commenters even live in St. John since anyone, living anywhere can make a comment on that site?

imoo

[eagargal]

positive opinions of st johns residents for 9 year old boy to attend school there

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20293455&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

starting at bottom of page

I don't see anything positive about this article, if anything it illustrates the fact that Eryn doesn't have the means or the sense to provide this boy with the stable environment needed for rehabilitation efforts. If he had remained in custody, he would have at least been keeping up with his schooling.

She is going through the second attempt at her second divorce in the NM courts (the first attempt ended in a reconciliation).

I do applaud Liz for her strength and forgiveness. JMO.

[eagargal]

Who in the heck was she hanging around with that would have a criminal record?:scared:

This part is interesting too. So they just want to disregard the plea agreement that all parties agreed to?

"Judge Michael Roca reminded the court of one of the conditions of the juvenile's plea agreement, that he is not to be enrolled in any public, private or charter school until he is determined to not pose a threat to himself or others by an evaluating psychiatrist."

And that hasn't even happened yet or hadn't when the last hearing was held. What's the hold up?

LOL, did you read the comment section (BTW a total of 6 comments) I guess some feel that is all the citizens in St. John and half of the 6 had an adverse comments about the boy attending public school there. And how do we even know any of these commenters even live in St. John since anyone, living anywhere can make a comment on that site?

imoo

Both her sister and her brother have criminal records...

[tottenwess]

I don't see anything positive about this article, if anything it illustrates the fact that Eryn doesn't have the means or the sense to provide this boy with the stable environment needed for rehabilitation efforts. If he had remained in custody, he would have at least been keeping up with his schooling.

She is going through the second attempt at her second divorce in the NM courts (the first attempt ended in a reconciliation).

I do applaud Liz for her strength and forgiveness. JMO.

He was in custody for some period of time....it sounds like the state didn't offer him any schooling either. I think it's a little to easy for some to point the finger at the mother. You make it sound like poor women are not allowed to be mothers, let alone good mothers!

[tottenwess]

If Eryn really was trying to get the boy schooled, she would have gotten a tutor by now. Why wait 4 months????? This shows me she has no sense, and living with some felon, again no sense, and now living with ex's mom, who IMO has mental issues. Poor judgement by Eryn across the board. And has she already spent her appearance fee for GMA, that she has to have her atty beg for money? It doesn't cost $1000 to go to Phoenix... JMO

I didn't see anywhere in the article that stated that the person they stayed with was a felon....If I trust my own eyes, it said criminal record. There is a difference between someone with a criminal record and a felon, as will as a big difference between one count negligent homicide and double murder, which you also fail to understand. Glad your not a reporter, we would never get the truth.

[tottenwess]

positive opinions of st johns residents for 9 year old boy to attend school there

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20293455&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

starting at bottom of page

From this article I get the impression that the judge doesn't believe the boy actual is guilty of a crime....he's the one with all the evidence.

It reminds me of the LA riots...a jury acquitted the four police officers and when the jury was asked why would they acquit them after seeing such a brutal videotape of the beating, their comment was that the public was missing seven seconds of the videotape and it was that seven seconds that convinced them that the police officers were provoked. Well, as we know two police officers were found guilty in federal court, but it also shows that the public is never privy to all the evidence and as little as seven seconds can totally convince someone otherwise.

[tottenwess]

Why has the mom waited 4 months to try to get the boy schooled? She could have gotten a tutor easily.

Why was she living with a felon? She wants a positive role model for the boy????

What the ______is going on here??????

I can see why VR originally got custody. IMO

Again...where does it say felon?:confused:

[tottenwess]

Why has the mom waited 4 months to try to get the boy schooled? She could have gotten a tutor easily.

Why was she living with a felon? She wants a positive role model for the boy????

What the ______is going on here??????

I can see why VR originally got custody. IMO

Oh yeah...tutors cost money, which she may not have a whole lot of.

[wolfi_2]

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news....d=505965&rfi=6

Here is the source where Eryn has violated CR's probation. The boy should immediately be removed from Eryn, IMO



Eryn can’t violate probation because she isn’t on probation, CR isn’t on probation also he is on furlough I think. And it’s not on CR where he life because he can’t decide it, so he doesn’t violate anything. And Eryn moves as soon she knows that the place she lived was wrong. IMO

[tottenwess]

Maybe the boy can be reassigned to the court guardian. How can the mom live with a boyfriend who just got out of prison? Great examples for the kid!

Is the mom living with a boyfriend who just got out of prison, or is this just another assumption?

[trofanji]

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news....d=505965&rfi=6

Here is the source where Eryn has violated CR's probation. The boy should immediately be removed from Eryn, IMO


Sorry, but the link doesn’t work!

[Annie143]

I think the mother is doing the best she can under the circumstances. Where is she living now ? I thought she was living with one of the grandmothers....?

It is sad when someone is pursued relentlessly with harsh, ugly statements and obviously the pursuer has no shame.

[sdn8tv]

I am unable to use the quote function so will have to make the best of it. The following is a post from Linda777NJ on 4/9:

"Bottom line...CR's mother can NOT provide for his needs.

She couldn't long ago, which is why she lost custody and she again has proved she can't now. He needs to be in a secure treatment facility.

Is the state or county supposed to foot the bill for the next NINE YEARS while she hop scotches from house to house? The woman lives like a gypsy, certainly she can not provide a stable environment."

Dear Linda,

I have tried to find court records regarding the custody--zip. If you have access to evidence supporting your statements, please post them here so the rest of us can make informed (not inflammatory) conclusions.

Sincerely,

Judge Roy Bean
Hangin' Judge

Dear Linda,
You are so completely wrong. They shared joint legal custody. A child cannot be cut in two so obviously one parent had to have physical custody, does this necessarily make the non-custodial parent unfit, unable to provide for their child. You do not know that this was not an agreement made between them.

It is just so funny that there just isn't a middle ground with this group. It is either black or white...guess what we live in a very grey world.