Ryan Widmer Trial for Wife's Bathtub Death (4/2 - GUILTY)

[bsatis]

Trial begins today for Ryan Widmer who is charged with murder of his wife who died in the bathtub. This one will be riveting. It seems to be everyone against the prosecutor locally...

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090323/NEWS0107/903230324

[bsatis]

I started a thread on the trial board, but I knew there use to be one here. I cannot find it anymore.

Anyways, this looks to be a pretty strange trial...

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090323/NEWS0107/903230324

[Marcia3]

The local government in Warren County has a reputation within the state of Ohio as being about as corrupt as a local government can get, so that is adding to the doubt of a lot of people as to whether or not Ryan should have been charged.

I see that Dateline is going to do a one-hour program on this trial. Riveting, indeed. My money is on a not guilty verdict, IMO.

[bsatis]

The local government in Warren County has a reputation within the state of Ohio as being about as corrupt as a local government can get, so that is adding to the doubt of a lot of people as to whether or not Ryan should have been charged.

I see that Dateline is going to do a one-hour program on this trial. Riveting, indeed. My money is on a not guilty verdict, IMO.

Yeah...I think they may have jumped the gun, but I don't know. I just do not see a motive in this case whatsoever. I mean, they had only been married 4 months. They had no life insurance that they have spoke of, no affairs, etc. It just doesn't make sense. And seriously -- if he was going to murder her 4 months into the marriage -- why not just NOT get married.

Previous articles have stated that Sarah's family believes he is innocent as well...

[Marcia3]

Yeah...I think they may have jumped the gun, but I don't know. I just do not see a motive in this case whatsoever. I mean, they had only been married 4 months. They had no life insurance that they have spoke of, no affairs, etc. It just doesn't make sense. And seriously -- if he was going to murder her 4 months into the marriage -- why not just NOT get married.

Previous articles have stated that Sarah's family believes he is innocent as well...

Yes, they are supporting him. If he did kill her, it wouldn't be the first time a victim's family were fooled by a spouse...

There was a thread here when this first happened last summer, but it is now gone. I seem to recall that there were a couple of posters who planned to attend the trial. Hopefully they will come here and see the thread you have started and give us some local insight.

[Marcia3]

I agree with you. The State has an enormous burden here. Seems to me that they overreached. It's a tragedy all around.

First time in years I plan on trying to follow a trial from start to finish (if I can keep up!)

I'm going to try to follow it as well. The last trial I stayed with from beginning to end was the Neal Entwhistle murder trail...very different from the Widmer situation. I was thoroughly convinced going in that Neal was guilty, but I have very serious doubts about Widmer.

[JD1974]

I am glad Ryan will finally get his day in court. I have been waiting for this trial to start because, well it just makes no sense! Sarah fell asleep all the time and in strange places...unless she has serious damage to her (none of the EMT's noticed any bruising, then all of a sudden she has seever damage) just makes no sense to me. I wish the trial was being broadcasted.

[Lynn Gweeny]

Live Coverage: Ryan Widmer Bathtub Drowning Trial

WLWT.com's Travis Gettys is in the courtroom for the Ryan Widmer trial and will post updates here throughout the proceedings. Follow the entire trial from gavel to gavel.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/18990945/detail.html

[JD1974]

I agree....of course I'm just basing my opinion on the facts known so far.....

So far I haven't been able to attend the trial though I wanted to be there on the first day when I first read about it.

I so want to call in sick tomorrow, but can't do it. LOL

But I may be able to take a day off since things are a bit slow lately. :)

Anyway I'm wondering why the prosecution was so sure, then had to delay the trial after the defense had a chance to look at the same evidence and have someone that could testify to it. If you know what I mean. :)



I remember reading that! I was so bothered by the delay, if the state has it's case like they say...why delay?

[JD1974]

Live Coverage: Ryan Widmer Bathtub Drowning Trial

WLWT.com's Travis Gettys is in the courtroom for the Ryan Widmer trial and will post updates here throughout the proceedings. Follow the entire trial from gavel to gavel.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/18990945/detail.html


Thanks so much Lynn!

[MoonFlwr]

Live Coverage: Ryan Widmer Bathtub Drowning Trial

WLWT.com's Travis Gettys is in the courtroom for the Ryan Widmer trial and will post updates here throughout the proceedings. Follow the entire trial from gavel to gavel.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/18990945/detail.html

Thanks for the link Lynn Gweeny! :)

Yayyyy a trial I can watch!

[MoonFlwr]

Anyone know what time court begins? (Sorry if I've overlooked it somewhere...I's excited!
I get to watch a trial again.... I can never watch the CNN feeds!)

[Crispy]

UGG! I was one of the posters that was going to go to this trial! I got a stupid ear infection and partially ruptured my eardrum over the weekend and I can't drive. Heck I can barely walk a straight line. Hopefully, by the end of the week I will feel better. I'm not sure how long the trial will last.

[Marcia3]

UGG! I was one of the posters that was going to go to this trial! I got a stupid ear infection and partially ruptured my eardrum over the weekend and I can't drive. Heck I can barely walk a straight line. Hopefully, by the end of the week I will feel better. I'm not sure how long the trial will last.

Ouch!!! I've suffered through the ear infections and ruptures a couple of times. Makes you feel all :confused:

I think the trial is expected to last two weeks, but don't quote me. Can you watch it on the stream that LynnGweeney posted earlier?

I've been reading cincinnati.com to get updates for the last two days. You might try that, just to get a summary of the day's events.

Hope you feel better soon.

[PensiveTara]

I'm going to try to follow it as well. The last trial I stayed with from beginning to end was the Neal Entwhistle murder trail...very different from the Widmer situation. I was thoroughly convinced going in that Neal was guilty, but I have very serious doubts about Widmer.

The difference in those two trials was "Evidence and Motive" In Widmer's case they have Neither. -Entwisle was in the bag from the moment he bought his one way ticket back to Europe.

[kelloggirl]

I have doubts too, given lack of motive, and the way the coroner seemed to dissent with other opinions.

But I just watched a snippet of the testimony on the web link above - one was about fingerprints on the rim of the tub that appear to be like someone was hanging on, then they move downward. The other was from a sleep expert saying there was no evidence that she had any sleep disorders, and even if she did, she says that she would've woken up once her face hit the water.

From the Cincinnati.com site:
She said "it would be virtually impossible" for someone to fall asleep in a tub and not wake up before drowning. The only exception would be if the person were "under the influence of drugs or alcohol or something external," Das said.

Das noted that no evidence of drugs or alcohol was found in Sarah Widmer's bloodstream - only caffeine. Further, medical records revealed no other problem that would have rendered Sarah Widmer unable to awaken if she had fallen asleep in the tub, Das said.

That is the one thing that really bothers me is - how often really, do adults drown in bathtubs? It seems really really rare.

Here was another thing that bothered me:
Earlier in the day, John Becker, a Fort Thomas dentist who employed Sarah Widmer as a dental hygienist, testified.

In July, the month before Sarah Widmer's death, Becker said, she asked questions about life insurance and other benefits, saying her husband was pressuring her to do that now that they were married.

Is it confirmed that she didn't actually have life insurance? If so, that would pretty darn stupid of him to kill her without it. That wouldn't make sense AT ALL.

[Marcia3]

I have been unconvinced from the start that Ryan had anything to do with the death of his wife. The only moment that I have wavered from that has been reading the article you referenced from cincinnati.com regarding the medical expert's testimony. Even the testimony of her former employer didn't sway me much, I don't think it's uncommon for newlyweds to want to have things all "buttoned up" now that there are new responsibilities as a spouse, etc. When I got married, my hubby and I drew up new wills within the first month...if either of us had died soon after, I'm sure there would have been some suspicions that one of us was up to no good.

:cool:

[Marcia3]

The difference in those two trials was "Evidence and Motive" In Widmer's case they have Neither. -Entwisle was in the bag from the moment he bought his one way ticket back to Europe.

Yep, absolutely, old Neil was already a done deal, except for the actual jury verdict...

[Crispy]

They've never confirmed that she had life insurance, but her mother did testify that she paid for her funeral.

The coroner and another dr. have testified today. It's hard to make a conclusion without actually hearing his words for myself. I almost want to say that it sounds like someone held her neck from behind, almost as if to strangle her, and held her head underwater. I could be wrong, it's hard to tell from the blog updates.

[iluvmua]

Is this Sarah?

http://img01.funeralnet.com/galleries/wilsonschrammspaulding/571809/253276

[Marcia3]

From Cincinnati.com:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090327/NEWS01/903270403

I am looking forward to hearing from the defense witnesses next week.

[seawolf4]

I had been waiting for this trial and it seems I missed half of it. I have been reading what is available and did a search but did not find much at all. If anyone has any links they could post it would be appreciated. Meanwhile I will keep looking.

My thoughts so far;
No one falls asleep and drowns in a bathtub, not from falling asleep. However she could have had a medical condition that was not diagnosed and difficult, or impossible, to detect after death.
I agree with the judge that the bathtub vidoe should not be entered as evidence.
I don't judge anyone by their appearance or actions immediately following finding a family member dead. Nor do I put much stock in all the people who claim he was a "nice guy" therefore could not have killed her.

What I wish is that I knew more of the coroners testimony. Can they tell if the deep muscle injuries occured while she was still alive or did the injuries occur to a dead body. It seems to me that the bleeding pattern etc. would be different. That to me is the whole case, when did the neck trauma occur? Not sure if they could tell that though.

I do think holding up the larygscope in court is as much of a "show" as having a slide show with the words "Homicide!" written on it.

I have thought from the beginning something was awfully fishy about this death, but innocent until proven guilty. I don't know that the prosecution has proven guilt.

Sure wish we had someone attending this trial!

MOO

[seawolf4]

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/fresh/story/Blog-Widmer-Murder-Trial/FcQ8r8q1a0ibQQRAwzpT2g.cspx

going to go read

[Crispy]

Try wlwt.com They are the station with the live blogging every day and you can always go back and read the previous days entries.

Dr. Spitz is testifying that COD is drowning but MOD is undetermined.

[5boxersmom]

I just heard on our local news one of Sarah's friends testified she was a sleepy person. Said she would fall asleep in her car when she got to work. Also others say she feel asleep at other weird times.

imo

[kelloggirl]

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/fresh/story/Blog-Widmer-Murder-Trial/FcQ8r8q1a0ibQQRAwzpT2g.cspx

going to go read

I found this link a very good detailed description of the case to date so far, great for catching up. It is rather damning for Ryan, but of course, this was just the prosectution's side.

The main question is of course, whether her death was an actual homicide. If it was, the only person that could've done seems to be Ryan.

I agree that there seems to be evidence that she had some sort of sleeping problem. However, the falling asleep and drowning explanation continues to trouble me for two reasons:

1. Expert testimony that even if she was asleep, she would wake up when her face hit the water.

2. Various witnesses testimony that her body was dry.

I look forward to the defense's case.

[Crispy]

So witnesses have testified she fell asleep at odd times/places, but have any of them testified that she wouldn't or couldn't wake up? I would think that would be an important part. I think I would believe seizure/medical problem before I would believe she fell asleep and drowned.

jmo

[JD1974]

Does it bother anyone else that they found female DNA under Sarah's fingernails that they can't source to anyone? Also her body had to have been wet, they found a wet spot underneath her...and even if Ryan did drown her I don't think he held her body outside of the bath tub and at the same time held her head under the water.

Someone linked a page to something called Sudden Adult Death Syndrom, was a very interesting read.

I still just don't think Ryan killed Sarah.

[bsatis]

Does it bother anyone else that they found female DNA under Sarah's fingernails that they can't source to anyone? Also her body had to have been wet, they found a wet spot underneath her...and even if Ryan did drown her I don't think he held her body outside of the bath tub and at the same time held her head under the water.

Someone linked a page to something called Sudden Adult Death Syndrom, was a very interesting read.

I still just don't think Ryan killed Sarah.

I just don't know. There doesn't seem to be a motive, so that would make me tend to lean towards an accident of some sort.

The lack of water or her being wet does not bother me. A nude body does dry rather quickly, except the hair (in my experience). Not to mention, had there been "a violent struggle" it seems there would have been water everywhere or she would have at least broken her fingernails (which has been stated she did not).

The paramedics said she was warm to the touch. That means she hadn't been dead long. If you were going to kill someone, would you call 911 if there was a chance they could possibly still be revived? They must have thought they had a shot at reviving her, or they wouldn't have tried.

They said Ryan just had on a pair of boxers when people responded. No one said he had any type of injuries to his body and they definitely would have been able to see them.

I know people despise polygraphs and innocent people can fail and guilty people can pass...but this is one case that would be nice if one was given...

Sorry...just kind of talking out loud.

[kelloggirl]

All good points, JD1974 and bstasis. I totally am on the fence, despite my earlier posts. Although for him not to be wet, all he had to do was do it naked, dry off and then put on dry boxer shorts. The biggest issue for me is seeming lack of motive. I assume they searched all his phone and computer records for evidence of an affair, and financials for evidence of debt or other financial trouble? I'm sure the State would've raised those issues if they had been present, and they did not.

I don't know what to think about the female DNA - but I don't think it means a woman came in and drowned Sara without Ryan noticing.

I do remember on Forensic Files an episode where a guy drowned his wife by sticking her head in the toilet. He left a palm print on the side of wall where he braced himself while drowning her. I think he put her in the bathtub as well. They determined it was homicide because of the bruising on her neck as well as the mark of a necklace around her throat. There was other evidence as well.

Here, there doesn't seem to be definitive evidence of his direct involvement. And I agree that he wouldn't have called 911 so quickly. Has anyone heard the 911 tapes? Any links are appreciated.

[JD1974]

I just don't know. There doesn't seem to be a motive, so that would make me tend to lean towards an accident of some sort.

The lack of water or her being wet does not bother me. A nude body does dry rather quickly, except the hair (in my experience). Not to mention, had there been "a violent struggle" it seems there would have been water everywhere or she would have at least broken her fingernails (which has been stated she did not).

The paramedics said she was warm to the touch. That means she hadn't been dead long. If you were going to kill someone, would you call 911 if there was a chance they could possibly still be revived? They must have thought they had a shot at reviving her, or they wouldn't have tried.

They said Ryan just had on a pair of boxers when people responded. No one said he had any type of injuries to his body and they definitely would have been able to see them.

I know people despise polygraphs and innocent people can fail and guilty people can pass...but this is one case that would be nice if one was given...

Sorry...just kind of talking out loud.

I agree, also you would think Sarah would have had more injuries to her waist area if as the state is trying to say maybe she was dry because the only part of her body that was in the water was her head. That makes no sense whatsoever.

No insurance policy, no motive, falling asleep at odd times and in odd places...I just don't think this was a murder.

[JD1974]

All good points, JD1974 and bstasis. I totally am on the fence, despite my earlier posts. Although for him not to be wet, all he had to do was do it naked, dry off and then put on dry boxer shorts. The biggest issue for me is seeming lack of motive. I assume they searched all his phone and computer records for evidence of an affair, and financials for evidence of debt or other financial trouble? I'm sure the State would've raised those issues if they had been present, and they did not.

I don't know what to think about the female DNA - but I don't think it means a woman came in and drowned Sara without Ryan noticing.

I do remember on Forensic Files an episode where a guy drowned his wife by sticking her head in the toilet. He left a palm print on the side of wall where he braced himself while drowning her. I think he put her in the bathtub as well. They determined it was homicide because of the bruising on her neck as well as the mark of a necklace around her throat. There was other evidence as well.

Here, there doesn't seem to be definitive evidence of his direct involvement. And I agree that he wouldn't have called 911 so quickly. Has anyone heard the 911 tapes? Any links are appreciated.


Ryan called 911 very quickly, Sarah's body was still warm when EMT's arrived. I know I heard the 911 tape, I think it may be on this site

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19052647/detail.html

type in Ryan Widmer 911 and I think the page with the recording will pop up.


Sorry should write IMO after saying Ryan made the call quickly.

[Crispy]

The jury could be getting the case today. For some reason I can't get the live blog thing to work today. I just don't know how this verdict is gonna go.

I know that the prosecution doesn't have to provide motive, but I would sure like to know one in this case. I haven't heard any evidence of an affair, big life insurance payout, or unhappiness in the marriage.

If he pulled her out of the tub, just yanked her out, I would think there would be water on the floor, on him, on her.

[kelloggirl]

Thanks for the links everyone. Wow. Listening to that 911 Call really has pushed me over the fence towards something being really wrong with his story, especially in light of this really good article I just read about analyzing 911 calls. Here it is:

Statement Analysis of 911 Calls
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386

Ryan does many things that the article highlights as red flags when analyzing 911 calls from guilty vs innocent callers when homicide occurs, at least IMO.

1. He never really asks for help for Sarah. He just informs them.
2. He establishes mortality for her.
3. He, at many times, sounds very calm.
4. There are really really long periods of silence in which he does nothing like provide information or ask how long it's going to take for people to get there. (only does so once at the end, but otherwise never says hurry! Please, she needs help!)
5. He provides extraneous information about his whereabouts and him not being near her when it occurred.

Other weird things not mentioned in the article but that made me scratch my head. When questioned by the 911 operator he says he did CPR but he hadn't taken her out of the tub? Wouldn't your first instinct be if someone is unconscious in the tub to pull them out of the water?

I'm still not sure I could vote Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt though.

P.S. Here's a link to the live blog that worked for me:
WCPO Link (http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/fresh/story/Blog-Widmer-Murder-Trial/FcQ8r8q1a0ibQQRAwzpT2g.cspx)

[Marcia3]

All good points, JD1974 and bstasis. I totally am on the fence, despite my earlier posts. Although for him not to be wet, all he had to do was do it naked, dry off and then put on dry boxer shorts. The biggest issue for me is seeming lack of motive. I assume they searched all his phone and computer records for evidence of an affair, and financials for evidence of debt or other financial trouble? I'm sure the State would've raised those issues if they had been present, and they did not.

I don't know what to think about the female DNA - but I don't think it means a woman came in and drowned Sara without Ryan noticing.

I do remember on Forensic Files an episode where a guy drowned his wife by sticking her head in the toilet. He left a palm print on the side of wall where he braced himself while drowning her. I think he put her in the bathtub as well. They determined it was homicide because of the bruising on her neck as well as the mark of a necklace around her throat. There was other evidence as well.

Here, there doesn't seem to be definitive evidence of his direct involvement. And I agree that he wouldn't have called 911 so quickly. Has anyone heard the 911 tapes? Any links are appreciated.

The unidentified woman's DNA under her nails might be explained given the fact that she worked that day, according to her dentist boss' testimony. She was a dental hygienist, and I know they wear gloves when examining patients, but couldn't she end up with the DNA under her nails when removing her gloves? Or perhaps it was a transferrance from something she handled for a patient while not wearing gloves, such as dentures, etc.

I have leaned towards no homicide from the beginning, going back to when she died and Ryan was arrested.

Going back to wcpo.com to see if there's anything new since I last read there.

[kakax]

I read all of the daily blogs from WLWT and while I know we aren't getting the entire story...he can't type every word, I just don't see this case as proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I found it interesting that the Doctor today said he did a test getting out of the shower and it took 7 minutes for his body to dry. A woman also on one of the daily blogs took a bath with the same result. I did as well this morning and it took 7 minutes for my body to dry. I walked myself to my bedroom rug and laid down. My hair was completely soaked and when i got up after 7 minutes it was still dripping. There was still water pooled on the bathroom floor 45 minutes after I got out of the bath. This is the only thing that bothers me about this case.

Whether or not I could convict him, beyond a reasonable doubt...I don't think I could. I just don't think the prosecution proved their case. He may have done it, but there is enough doubt in my mind to not be able to convict.

[Crispy]

Closing arguments tomorrow. From what they said on the blog today, there isn't a set time on when the jury has to finish deliberating. Meaning, they don't stop at the close of the court business day and can deliberate into the evening.

[seawolf4]

Thanks to all who supplied links. Working all day I can't follow the trial live. This site does give a summary of the entire trial. Good for those of us with limited time.

http://www.wcpo.com/mostpopular/story/Blog-Widmer-Murder-Trial/FcQ8r8q1a0ibQQRAwzpT2g.cspx

I don't think the DNA under her fingernails is important. MOO, most of us pick up DNA during the day just from going about our business.

You can't hold it against RW for not testifying but I would have liked to have seen him take the stand.

I guess we have to see how the closing arguments go.
I still think something is not right here, and that he may have killed her, but I could not convict him of her murder. Too much reasonable doubt.

MOO

[hflowers]

I'm following closing arguments right now. I honestly never thought he did it but the prosecutors are giving really convincing closing arguments right now. This is such a weird case.

[hflowers]

I'm following closing arguments right now. I honestly never thought he did it but the prosecutors are giving really convincing closing arguments right now. This is such a weird case.

(Just wanted to add)

Now that I'm listening to the defense closing arguments...I feel the same way. None of it makes sense.

[kelloggirl]

(Just wanted to add)

Now that I'm listening to the defense closing arguments...I feel the same way. None of it makes sense.

Thanks for the updates! Do you mean that you feel that the defense closing arguments make a good case or that you still feel the prosecution has the stronger case?

I went from not believing this was homicide, to being on the fence, to believing he's probably guilty (911 call did it for me), but not beyond a reasonable doubt. It IS a weird case. The lack of motive disturbs me. I find it hard to believe he's a complete pyschopath who just wanted to marry someone and then kill them for the thrill of it.

[hflowers]

Thanks for the updates! Do you mean that you feel that the defense closing arguments make a good case or that you still feel the prosecution has the stronger case?

I went from not believing this was homicide, to being on the fence, to believing he's probably guilty (911 call did it for me), but not beyond a reasonable doubt. It IS a weird case. The lack of motive disturbs me. I find it hard to believe he's a complete pyschopath who just wanted to marry someone and then kill them for the thrill of it.

I mean that I don't know what I mean ;)

The prosecution pointed out things that I hadn't thought of, such as the position of the door to the bathtub. (It's on wlwt's live blog if anyone wants to read it) and it really made me think. The 911 call was strange to me as well but, I think of myself after 4 beers. If I found my husband dead I would be frantic, trying to help him, before calling 911. Everyone reacts to situations differently.

Honestly, I don't think he did it and usually - I'm the complete opposite.

The defense offered an equally compelling closing argument.

MOO

[Crispy]

I was the same way. Through the whole trial I didn't have a clue if he did it or not. When the prosecutors did their closing I thought Wow this doesn't look good for him and then the defense got up there and I was back to not knowing. I have no idea how this jury is going to go.

[Crispy]

The jury asked to see the bath tub.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090401/NEWS0107/304010003/

[hflowers]

Closing arguments are up

Here: http://www.wlwt.com/video/19067670/index.html
and
Here: http://www.wlwt.com/video/19067728/index.html

Just says they are highlights - haven't gotten a chance to watch yet but thought I'd post for those interested.

[Crispy]

Jury had a question. The defense attorneys came in and went in the courtroom. When they came out they said that the jurors had ordered dinner so I'm guessing they are going to deliberate late!

[kelloggirl]

Jury had a question. The defense attorneys came in and went in the courtroom. When they came out they said that the jurors had ordered dinner so I'm guessing they are going to deliberate late!

Yes, I don't think this will be a quick verdict. Hung jury is possible as well.

[kakax]

I mean that I don't know what I mean ;)

The prosecution pointed out things that I hadn't thought of, such as the position of the door to the bathtub. (It's on wlwt's live blog if anyone wants to read it) and it really made me think. The 911 call was strange to me as well but, I think of myself after 4 beers. If I found my husband dead I would be frantic, trying to help him, before calling 911. Everyone reacts to situations differently.

Honestly, I don't think he did it and usually - I'm the complete opposite.

The defense offered an equally compelling closing argument.

MOO


I read on the blog about the door...but couldn't remember the significance of it. Can you explain?

[hflowers]

I read on the blog about the door...but couldn't remember the significance of it. Can you explain?

I can try...

Per closing arguments it only took 29 (or 28, I can't remember exactly) seconds for Ryan to remove Sarah from the tub and place her on the floor in the master bedroom. However, if you look at a floorplan of the home (http://www.maplestreethomes.com/img/brochures/T6.pdf) the bathroom door opens against the tub and blocks it about halfway so it would be impossible for him to remove her from the tub without closing the door first and then reopening it to lay her on the ground.

He would have had to put down the phone, close the door, remove her from the tub, open the door again all while holding her and then lay her flat on the floor and then get back to the phone. Seems like a lot of things to do in 29 or so seconds.

But, then again, 29 seconds is a long time if you actually count it out...it just sounds like a short period of time on paper...

MOO, of course.

[Crispy]

Yes, I don't think this will be a quick verdict. Hung jury is possible as well.

I completely agree...really hard case. They are still deliberating. Been about 7 hours, but they've ate twice in that time.

[Crispy]

From the blog, judge said jury is making progress so he is letting them continue to deliberate!!

[Crispy]

Jury is finally done for the night. Court scheduled for 9 a.m. tomorrow.

Sorry for the triple post. My eyes are killing me from reading that blog all night. Good night!

[kelloggirl]

Prosecutor Travis Vieux begins his closing arguments by first thanking the jury for their patience.

He then continues with the 9-1-1 call that was made the night of August 11, 2008. Vieux says there were two 9-1-1 calls made by Ryan. The first one was for three seconds.

Vieux asks the jury what’s the most important thing you would want to tell 9-1-1 if your spouse is in distress. He answers by saying that the person on the phone would request for help.

Vieux tells the jury that Ryan’s first words were my wife fell asleep in the bathtub.

Vieux says that we know the medical evidence show that’s impossible to happen.

According to Vieux, not one time during that phone call did Ryan ask for help for his wife. He tells the jury that Ryan’s words were “Are you all coming?”

Vieux says that one of his witnesses even said that Ryan seemed too calm upon arrival to the house.

“He said on the 9-1-1 call, one, she was still in the bathtub. If you were in that position, wouldn’t you take your loved one out?” Vieux asks the jury.

“He took the time to pull the drain, is that reasonable?” Vieux asks the jury.

Vieux says on one 9-1-1 tape Ryan tried to do CPR and says that couldn’t have been possible to do that if she was in the bathtub.

Hey, I think the prosecutor read my post on the 911 call! Or he read the same article I did. Maybe it's time for me to contemplate a career switch.

On a more serious note, that is a dedicated jury to continue this late into the night. I wish the wisdom of serving justice and the truth.

[Marcia3]

From WLWT.com:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19063769/detail.html

I hope the jury members were able to get a good night's rest, but if I were one of them, I'd imagine it would be tough to sleep. To say nothing of the defendant and his family...

[Crispy]

The jury has asked for lunch. I wonder if they will work as long tonight. I was really shocked they stayed that late last night.

[5boxersmom]

This is a tough case. Glad I am not on the Jury. I can understand why the Jury is taking their time.

imo

[hflowers]

I just read on the wlwt blog that the bill of particulars was changed, yesterday maybe, from "in the bathtub" to "in any device that retains water" or something similar to that.

[kelloggirl]

Around 10:30 a.m., word came from the jury room indicating that they needed assistance. They requested to see the easel that Defense Attorney Charlie Rittgers wrote on during his closing arguments.

I think they're still going over the case, and haven't really started deliberating, though I could be wrong. I predict verdict no sooner than tomorrow.

[Marcia3]

My gut instinct is that there are a few holdouts for a minority verdict, and no one is moving to the other side. Although, this case is a tough one, IMO, because there was so little evidence against him, but the pros made it sound as if there could be no doubt that Ryan is guilty.

I feel for Sarah's family the most. They have already lost her, and now they are waiting for a verdict that will change their lives forever and the clock must seem like it has stopped for them these last two days.

I've made no bones about it from the start, I think Sarah died as a result of something that cannot be found in an autospy, just as many people do every day. LE jumped to conclusions based on flimsy circumstantial evidence and now Ryan has been forced to fight for his freedom. He has lost his home to foreclosure, and is probably up to his eyeballs in debt for his attorneys fees. Not to mention that he lost his young wife four months after they married and has not been able to mourn for her without the glare of the public eye.

No winners here, no matter what the verdict.

[seawolf4]

I'm surprised the jury is out this long. I thought they would be back pretty quickly with a not guilty verdict.
I know I could not convict him. I don't think the prosecution proved their case.
As an RN I have seen intubations, but they were in a hospital setting and accomplished very quickly. I don't see that deep muscle injuries would ever occur, but who can really say in this case with so many unsucessful attempts.
I do think he killed her but what I think is not worth anything. There is just not enough to convict him. I would have wanted the pros. to prove that the injuries occured before she died. They didn't prove that. MOO

[Crispy]

They've asked for dinner, but I thought I read earlier that they will cut them off at 10 p.m. if they haven't reached a verdict. Not sure if that's true or not.

I will be very shocked if they come back with a guilty verdict on the aggravated murder charge. I've thought on it and while it's possible that he did kill her, I don't think that the prosecution proved it beyond a reasonable doubt. There are two points in the case that trouble me and they go to different sides. One, where is the water if he pulled her from the tub. Two, what in the world is the motive?

[5boxersmom]

Found not guilty of aggravated murder

Found guilty of murder.

Just broke in on my local station.

www.wkrc.com

imo

[Crispy]

From the daily blog about the verdict.

A woman begins weeping, a man says cut it out

Judge threatens to clear the courtroom if emotional outburst continues. Two male relatives storm out of courtroom and say "Small town justice"

"I love my wife. I wouldn't hurt her. They never gave me a chance. They charged me the next day"

Judge orders Ryans uncle taken into custody after he slams open the door to the courtroom as he leaves.


WOW. I did not see that coming.(that was me and not the blog)

[kelloggirl]

Wow! Surprising. I think he did it, but I don't think I could've voted guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I think the jury deliberated a good while, it doesn't seem they took it lightly.

Not sure how I feel at all.

[hflowers]

At first I thought the jurors were trying to decide between guilty - not guilty...now it seems quite the opposite, aggravated murder vs murder.

I still find it all very strange. I'm hoping that some of the jurors decide to speak, I'd like to know whey they came to the conclusion that they did.

MOO

[kelloggirl]

I'm not sure about that hflowers, I doubt aggravated murder was considered seriously. I think they were debating guilty or not because they asked for the defense closing exhibit/chart earlier today.

Link to summary: Jury Finds Widmer Guilty of Murder (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Jury-Finds-Ryan-Widmer-Guilty-Of-Murder-Not/yI2LhbNJC0CBDKMHfC2v4A.cspx)

From the article, something I hadn't read before:
Steward (Sarah's mom) also testified that Ryan didn't like Sarah spending money. That he'd watch her credit card accounts online and call her as soon as a purchase was made and question if it was necessary.

That sounds like very controlling behavior to me.

[Crispy]

I thought what they said/did in closing argument wasn't evidence? My understanding was they wanted the easel to write on. Then again, I've been wrong before.

I'm really shocked they found him guilty.

[Hengirl]

Unfreakingbelieveable -_- I believed he was innocent from the start. I watched this case since day 1, which was my 20th birthday.

I'm not sure about that hflowers, I doubt aggravated murder was considered seriously. I think they were debating guilty or not because they asked for the defense closing exhibit/chart earlier today.

Link to summary: Jury Finds Widmer Guilty of Murder (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Jury-Finds-Ryan-Widmer-Guilty-Of-Murder-Not/yI2LhbNJC0CBDKMHfC2v4A.cspx)

From the article, something I hadn't read before:


That sounds like very controlling behavior to me.

My family doesn't like me spending money. Does that make them controlling?

[kelloggirl]

My family doesn't like me spending money. Does that make them controlling?

That depends. When you say "family" are you speaking of your husband, not your parents? If yes, do you contribute significantly to the household income? If yes, does he or they watch your transactions online and call you the minute you charge something to question you?

Unless you answer Yes to all three questions, no, I don't think someone not liking a family member spending their money is controlling.

[Crispy]

Video 1 of verdict
http://www.wlwt.com/video/19082216/index.html

Video 2 of verdict just a different camera angle showing some of the family members
http://www.wlwt.com/video/19082342/index.html

That is really hard to watch.

[seawolf4]

I am stunned.
I do think there may have been alot of things that did not make it onto the blogs. MOO
I hope some of the jury speak to the press.

[Marcia3]

Unfreakingbelieveable -_- I believed he was innocent from the start. I watched this case since day 1, which was my 20th birthday.



My family doesn't like me spending money. Does that make them controlling?

I am so sick to my stomach over this verdict. I have not ever thought he was guilty of murder and I am stunned that this backwoods jury was probably afraid to go against the law and order political machine in Warren County.

As far as the credit card monitoring is concerned, I don't see it as a huge red flag. Maybe Sarah accumulated debt easily, some people don't control their spending. Maybe Ryan was in charge of the finances and it was something they agreed to - his monitoring of her credit card usage.

It certainly doesn't mean he murdered her. Good grief!

[Roux]

Excuse me for butting in, since I didn't follow the trial closely, but I would like the thoughts of those who believe he's not guilty. What about the testimony that her body was not wet, the carpet was not wet and there was no water on the bathroom floor? Also, I do believe that even if she had fallen asleep, natural reflexes would have caused her to awaken.

Hope the jurors will speak out. Thanks to local posters!

[kelloggirl]

I am so sick to my stomach over this verdict. I have not ever thought he was guilty of murder and I am stunned that this backwoods jury was probably afraid to go against the law and order political machine in Warren County.

As far as the credit card monitoring is concerned, I don't see it as a huge red flag. Maybe Sarah accumulated debt easily, some people don't control their spending. Maybe Ryan was in charge of the finances and it was something they agreed to - his monitoring of her credit card usage.

It certainly doesn't mean he murdered her. Good grief!

Good grief, indeed. Where in my post does it say it means he murdered her?

[Marcia3]

Good grief, indeed. Where in my post does it say it means he murdered her?

Nowhere, and I didn't say it did. I wasn't quoting your post directly and I'm sorry if you took my remark that way. What I meant was that if anyone was thinking that his alleged "control" over her credit cards was a clear indication of his guilt, IMO they would be wrong.

Sorry. I'm very emotional about this verdict. I didn't meant to offend.

[JD1974]

All I can say is wow, I never thought he was guilty of this crime. As for the body being dry, your body dries a lot faster than your clothes or your hair does and no way do I think he just held her head under water and not her body because she would have had massive bruising to her abdomen area from fighting back. During testimony it wa stated he pulled the bathtub plug...that is how her body wasn't wet. How could the floor not be wet when her hair was wet? Some of the carpet was wet.

[kelloggirl]

Nowhere, and I didn't say it did. I wasn't quoting your post directly and I'm sorry if you took my remark that way. What I meant was that if anyone was thinking that his alleged "control" over her credit cards was a clear indication of his guilt, IMO they would be wrong.

Sorry. I'm very emotional about this verdict. I didn't meant to offend.

No worries, thank you for clearing that up. I agree that if the jury had used that as a clear indication of guilt, they would be wrong.

I understand it's upsetting, and as I've said before, I'm not sure they got it right even though I lean towards him having done it. I think there is sufficient reasonable doubt, so I was trying to identify things that might have swayed the jury towards guilty. I should've made that clearer in my post as well.

Here's what I believe the strongest things that might have impacted the jury are (just my personal opinion):

1. Lack of wetness of her body given only 2 minutes between the time that he says he pulled her from the tub and when paramedics arrived (although you raise a good issue above JD about the draining of the water, I had forgotten that, maybe the jury did or didn't believe much of what he said in the 911 call)
2. Bathtub having prints of a struggle and evidence of wiping away something on the tub (remember they asked to see it)
3. Expert's testimony that even if Sarah had fallen asleep she would have woken up the instant her face hit the water - people actually falling asleep and drowning without drugs/alcohol in their system is so rare as to be non-existent.
4. Strangeness of the 911 Call

On the flip side:
1. No evidence of motive whatsoever (strongest one for me)
2. Possibility of freak accident/undiagnosed condition
3. Evidence she did fall asleep a lot and had been complaining of headaches
4. Source of injuries ambiguous at best

I don't have a dog in this fight and didn't have a really strong opinion either way before the trial began. I wonder too, how much of a role an implicit trust that coroners, who have seen lots of bodies, don't go around issuing Causes of Death as Homicides without being really sure, given that they've likely seen lots and lots of bodies with intubation injuries. I have no idea of the local politics and issues that might make this assumption a very faulty one, but if I didn't know better, I would think it to be true.

I'm sure he will appeal. Perhaps he will have a stronger defense the second time around. How much did they reinforce the No Motive theme?

[Crispy]

Article with one jurors opinions. Mentions the 911 call, the sleep expert and they were not impressed with Dr. Spitz.

http://www.middletownjournal.com/hp/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/04/03/ws040409widmer.html

[Crispy]

According to Fox 19, they are saying something about having Adult Friend Finder on his computer but the judge wouldn't let it in because they couldn't say for sure that Sarah found out about it.

WLWT has a video up of a juror. It took a while to work for me.
http://www.wlwt.com/video/19090757/index.html

[kelloggirl]

According to Fox 19, they are saying something about having Adult Friend Finder on his computer but the judge wouldn't let it in because they couldn't say for sure that Sarah found out about it.

WLWT has a video up of a juror. It took a while to work for me.
http://www.wlwt.com/video/19090757/index.html

I had trouble too with the video. It finally worked after trying about 5 times. He confirms that aggravated murder was never seriously on the table and the deliberations were about guilty of murder/not guilty.

While I was watching the video, they posted what you heard on Fox 19.

Prosecutor Says Ryan Widmer Had Motive To Kill (http://www.wlwt.com/news/19089437/detail.html)

[hflowers]

wcpo has the raw video of the prosecutions "re-enactment" of what might have happened the day Sarah died (the video that wasn't allowed to be entered as evidence). I didn't grab the link but it's on the home page. There's also some audio but my lap top speakers aren't loud enough to make out any of it.

[Crispy]

The audio is of the people who are filming their computer to get this video. You would think they would have edited that out!

[aproudmom]

I had trouble too with the video. It finally worked after trying about 5 times. He confirms that aggravated murder was never seriously on the table and the deliberations were about guilty of murder/not guilty.

While I was watching the video, they posted what you heard on Fox 19.

Prosecutor Says Ryan Widmer Had Motive To Kill (http://www.wlwt.com/news/19089437/detail.html)

wow never heard of adult friend finders..so that is the motive

[aproudmom]

omg they had to take someone into custody during the verdict I know it has to be so hard for both sides to not show emotion during a verdict or after a verdict I dont know how some families even get through a trial.:sad:

http://www.wlwt.com/video/19082216/index.html

[Marcia3]

No worries, thank you for clearing that up. I agree that if the jury had used that as a clear indication of guilt, they would be wrong.

I understand it's upsetting, and as I've said before, I'm not sure they got it right even though I lean towards him having done it. I think there is sufficient reasonable doubt, so I was trying to identify things that might have swayed the jury towards guilty. I should've made that clearer in my post as well.

Here's what I believe the strongest things that might have impacted the jury are (just my personal opinion):

1. Lack of wetness of her body given only 2 minutes between the time that he says he pulled her from the tub and when paramedics arrived (although you raise a good issue above JD about the draining of the water, I had forgotten that, maybe the jury did or didn't believe much of what he said in the 911 call)
2. Bathtub having prints of a struggle and evidence of wiping away something on the tub (remember they asked to see it)
3. Expert's testimony that even if Sarah had fallen asleep she would have woken up the instant her face hit the water - people actually falling asleep and drowning without drugs/alcohol in their system is so rare as to be non-existent.
4. Strangeness of the 911 Call

On the flip side:
1. No evidence of motive whatsoever (strongest one for me)
2. Possibility of freak accident/undiagnosed condition
3. Evidence she did fall asleep a lot and had been complaining of headaches
4. Source of injuries ambiguous at best

I don't have a dog in this fight and didn't have a really strong opinion either way before the trial began. I wonder too, how much of a role an implicit trust that coroners, who have seen lots of bodies, don't go around issuing Causes of Death as Homicides without being really sure, given that they've likely seen lots and lots of bodies with intubation injuries. I have no idea of the local politics and issues that might make this assumption a very faulty one, but if I didn't know better, I would think it to be true.

I'm sure he will appeal. Perhaps he will have a stronger defense the second time around. How much did they reinforce the No Motive theme?

I'm not sure he'll be granted an appeal, it's not automatic in Ohio on a murder charge, just DP cases. There would have to be cause for appeal, such as procedural or legal issues or errors.

No motive was not played hard by the defense, most likely because the Pros didn't provide one.

I have thought from the beginning, when she died, that it was a case of an accidental death...and nothing that I learned through the trial has convinced me that I am wrong. It is entirely possible, and IMO even probable, that Sarah died of natural causes. Yes, there was water in her lungs at autospy, and I do think she "drowned" but not at her husband's hands. She could have fallen asleep earlier while bathing, started to slip under the water and took water in her lungs, then woke up (just as the sleep expert said she would), and continued her bath thinking she was now alert and okay. It wouldn't take that long for a "dry drowning" to occur, in which case she would slip back under the water without taking additional water in her lungs.

Thousands of people die in this country every year, and no specific COD is found. IMO, Ryan Widmer had the bad luck to marry a woman who fell asleep at odd moments and it eventually ended her life.

Sadder still, Sarah Widmer had the unfortunate luck to fall asleep in the tub that day. Now two lives are over, for all intents and purposes, and lots of other lives adverserly affected for years to come.

[Marcia3]

You can't be serious?

Warren County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel is a piece of work. I think the woman is a deeply disturbed man-hater.



http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Prosecutor-Sex-May-Have-Been-Motive-For-Murder/fB1DfFEJ5kGSxDvglVKYJQ.cspx

Amen. Hutzel is beyond a piece of work, IMO. She is a ruthless politician with ambitions far beyond her current position.

Once she goes for a higher office, I don't care if Satan himself is running against her, I'll campaign for him. She is so transparent, IMO, with handing off this case to underlings...I don't think she believed they had a strong case and didn't want the loss on her record. But notice how she can't stay out of the media's glare since they won a conviction. Funny, isn't it, how the two lawyers from the DAs office didn't hit the radio and TV and print media...nope, just Hutzel.

As for the website motive, it's laughable. According to Ryan's attorney, he never became a member, and deleted the link from the PCs history.

But here's my favorite remark from Hutzel:

“For a brand-new couple to have one of them on those types of Web sites does not bode real well for a happy marriage,” Hutzel said.

What planet is she from? I wonder how many people have such websites in their history just from curiosity. She's a joke, IMO.

Here's the whole article:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090403/NEWS0107/304030107

[aproudmom]

I had not heard to much about this case but to the ones that have followed it I have read several links and I dont see anything about her family or thier reaction to the guilty verdict. I did read they were at the first bond hearing just to show they supported him but nothing after that..TIA just wondered wish they would put some of these cases on Live trial on IS.

I will not give my opinions on the case because I do not have enough of the facts of the trial I feel bad for both families who are hurting right now..they are in my prayers

[aproudmom]

You can't be serious?

Warren County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel is a piece of work. I think the woman is a deeply disturbed man-hater.



http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Prosecutor-Sex-May-Have-Been-Motive-For-Murder/fB1DfFEJ5kGSxDvglVKYJQ.cspx

You asking me if I am serious?
I for one do not see searching the net a motive to kill so yes I meant it what I said wow that is a motive..I did not live in the home don't know to much about her sleeping patterns I just heard of this case and just have read from links on here so I have no idea what happened that night the only 2 that do is him and her and I have to go with the verdict as it stands right now until I see otherwise..does not mean I think he did anything but a jury found him guilty..so no amount of polls or outraged posters are going to get him a get out of jail free card I will read everything and still may never know what happened no one will ever know except for him since his wife is dead...but I do not see searching the net for a not so great site a motive unless you snap which does happen if she got angry and was going to leave or whatever he could have snapped not saying he did just saying it can happen...the wet and dry evidence that I have read is the one thing I am wondering about and the video that they made showing how she could have been killed...just taking it all in...jmo

[aproudmom]

This poll speaks volumes, imo.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090403/NEWS01/304030071

I can tell you very much think he is not guilty but as I said no amount of polls will get him out of prison not sure how it works in that state but sure he will appeal his case and may turn out the way some feel it should have the first time....I have watched so many trials and felt they proved the person was guilty only to be crushed by a not guilty verdict or vise versa and it is hard when you feel they got it wrong I know...

[aproudmom]

This poll speaks volumes, imo.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090403/NEWS01/304030071

This poll is not that great IMO

Do you agree with the guilty verdict for Ryan Widmer?

Yes (2008) 24.63%

No (4742) 58.16%

Not sure / Don't know (1403) 17.21%

Total Votes: 8153

total for yes and not sure ~3411
total for no ~4742

this is not a huge diffrence IMO plus it is a poll of people who may be bias so I do not go by internet polls were some may want to prove thier opinion on a case. I wish both for both the families to find some peace as this is such a horrible thing for anyone to live through.

[bsatis]

I live in Cincinnati and many media outlets talked to the defense yesterday. They are pretty much appalled and blatantly say they have NEVER seen a prosecution go on giving the public information AFTER they have won a case.

They believe they are spilling more stuff (like the adult friend finder, the video, etc.) because they know their case was weak and the general public does not agree with the verdict.

It is true. I have never heard of a prosecution doing it. And, there is a reason this crap couldn't be brought into court. Shame on them.

Oh, and about Adult Friend Finder. I know literally SEVERAL men that go out to the free pages on there to look at sexy pictures. That does not mean they are trying to hook up with anyone. They just want to see pictures. Men will be men. My husband even knows I don't care if he does it. Men are visual creatures. But, I don't believe for a millisecond it would go beyond looking at pictures. It's no different than looking at Playboy IMO....

[Marcia3]

I live in Cincinnati and many media outlets talked to the defense yesterday. They are pretty much appalled and blatantly say they have NEVER seen a prosecution go on giving the public information AFTER they have won a case.

They believe they are spilling more stuff (like the adult friend finder, the video, etc.) because they know their case was weak and the general public does not agree with the verdict.

It is true. I have never heard of a prosecution doing it. And, there is a reason this crap couldn't be brought into court. Shame on them.

Oh, and about Adult Friend Finder. I know literally SEVERAL men that go out to the free pages on there to look at sexy pictures. That does not mean they are trying to hook up with anyone. They just want to see pictures. Men will be men. My husband even knows I don't care if he does it. Men are visual creatures. But, I don't believe for a millisecond it would go beyond looking at pictures. It's no different than looking at Playboy IMO....

I watched the video "reenactment" of LE's version of what happened to Sarah.

How did Ryan get her to bend over the side of the tub like that? They couldn't have struggled too much, IMO, because there were no signs of defensive wounds or any scratches or bruising on Ryan. I find it hard to believe that Sarah wouldn't have fought back if he was trying to force her over the side of the tub while it was full of water. Her nails weren't even broken, and no DNA found to match Ryan was under her nails.

Maybe he just charmed her into putting her head down into a tub full of water.

Furthermore, according to the juror's interview following the verdict, they theorized that Sarah had fallen asleep in the tub and he just took advantage of it and forced her to stay under until she drowned. That also doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't the bathroom have had water splashed all around it if that was how it happened?

JMO, but the jury got this one wrong.

[bsatis]

Perhaps they will claim ineffective counsel and get an appeal. All I know is that I think that he would have better off WITHOUT a jury trial.

And again, I keep going back to the fact that she was WARM when the first responders got there. If he was going to kill her, he wouldn't call 911 in time that they could come and possibly be able to revive her. That's just plain stupid if you ask me.

[Marcia3]

Excellent point. She was still warm when EMT arrived, so if he was trying to ensure that she was dead, he could've waited a few more minutes before calling 911.

The 911 operator's testimony at trial bothered me. He claimed that Ryan was "too calm" given the circumstances. Who decided that the operator was the best judge of whether or not a caller was calm or over-excited? He didn't know Ryan Widmer, so how would he possibly be able to determine Ryan's reaction to the situation?

Perhaps, as you suggest, a non-jury trial would have been a better option for this defendant. As far as an incompetent defense is concerned, IMO he doesn't have evidence of that. Unless there is error in the trial that is not public knowledge, I hold out little hope for an appeal.

[Amy]

Excellent point. She was still warm when EMT arrived, so if he was trying to ensure that she was dead, he could've waited a few more minutes before calling 911.

The 911 operator's testimony at trial bothered me. He claimed that Ryan was "too calm" given the circumstances. Who decided that the operator was the best judge of whether or not a caller was calm or over-excited? He didn't know Ryan Widmer, so how would he possibly be able to determine Ryan's reaction to the situation?

Perhaps, as you suggest, a non-jury trial would have been a better option for this defendant. As far as an incompetent defense is concerned, IMO he doesn't have evidence of that. Unless there is error in the trial that is not public knowledge, I hold out little hope for an appeal.

And then we have the cases where the spouse in the 911 call was "too upset", overacting, or whatnot. Was the 911 call played for the jury? That way they, who also I would assume did not know Ryan Widmer, could make their own determination about his demeanor during the call.

[kelloggirl]

And then we have the cases where the spouse in the 911 call was "too upset", overacting, or whatnot. Was the 911 call played for the jury? That way they, who also I would assume did not know Ryan Widmer, could make their own determination about his demeanor during the call.

Yes, it was. The long, detailed interview with one of the jurors indicated the call was a very important factor in their decision. He said during deliberations, they used a stopwatch to recreate what Ryan said he was doing, and they didn't buy it. The juror, who seemed to have some sort of medical training, also said that he believed Ryan was faking CPR attempts, saying his heavy breathing doesn't sound like CPR. Not sure if that was just his reasoning or if other jurors felt that way too. Personally, I would have no idea what real CPR is supposed to sound like.

[dmeyer004]

If anyone from Ryan's family monitors this or anyone knows a member of his family who tried contacting Mark Godsey at the Ohio Innocence Project please have them contact him personally. He would like to talk with them regarding this case. I have been in contact with Mr Godsey regarding the case about looking into it. If you believe strongly into Ryan's innocence as I do , please contact the Ohio Innocence Project and let us help free an innocent man.

[Amy]

Yes, it was. The long, detailed interview with one of the jurors indicated the call was a very important factor in their decision. He said during deliberations, they used a stopwatch to recreate what Ryan said he was doing, and they didn't buy it. The juror, who seemed to have some sort of medical training, also said that he believed Ryan was faking CPR attempts, saying his heavy breathing doesn't sound like CPR. Not sure if that was just his reasoning or if other jurors felt that way too. Personally, I would have no idea what real CPR is supposed to sound like.

Thank you. It's been a long time since I've done real CPR on an adult. I don't recall the need for heavy breathing @ any point. I did recently renew BLS, and even w/the changes in the process, there really wasn't any heavy breathing associated w/that, either. I don't know what CPR is supposed to "sound like," either. There isn't any particular sound I associate w/that, possibly because I have only been around CPR in a hospital setting, and there are a lot of other noises going on?

[bsatis]

Regarding the CPR...that is why I kind of wish Ryan took the stand to explain why it sounded like it did. If he had laid the phone down on the floor near her face while he was trying to breathe into her mouth or something like that...I am not sure what it would sound like. If he could explain, it could be re-enacted to see if it holds true...

[kelloggirl]

Regarding the CPR...that is why I kind of wish Ryan took the stand to explain why it sounded like it did. If he had laid the phone down on the floor near her face while he was trying to breathe into her mouth or something like that...I am not sure what it would sound like. If he could explain, it could be re-enacted to see if it holds true...

I believe Ryan not taking the stand hurt him. In this example, although he never explicitly told the 911 operator that he didn't know CPR, he could've said that on the stand, and said, yes, I was doing it wrong, because I don't actually know how to do it right!

The juror explicitly said him taking the stand and explaining the story again credibly may have made a difference, because the jury was also bothered by several other inconsistencies in the 911 Call and in his story. Another thing this juror said they believed he was lying about was his account that he was watching the Bengals game on the TV downstairs. They said that when the detectives turned on the TV downstairs, it was on channel X (I don't remember the actual number), but that the game was actually on channel Y. There were other little things like that that seemed to lead them to believe that he was lying about the whole account, and because he was lying, he was covering something up - the murder.

But they also said they watched him the whole time and were struck by his unemotional demeanor, even when the autopsy photos were shown. But don't defense attorneys usually counsel their clients not to show emotion? Not sure on this one.

[Marcia3]

From the website for WCPO TV in Cincinnati:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Innocence-Project-May-Review-Widmer-Evidence/F-8b_spgO0S-Z_JeF0oCag.cspx

[Marcia3]

For the curious and/or interested, there is a website for the continued support of Ryan Widmer's innocence:

http://freeryanwidmer.com/

[Crispy]

He has been transferred to Orient, Ohio to undergo evaluations.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19118281/detail.html

Heck, I still don't even know how I feel about the verdict yet. I have never been this conflicted about a trial before.

[Marcia3]

He has been transferred to Orient, Ohio to undergo evaluations.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19118281/detail.html

Heck, I still don't even know how I feel about the verdict yet. I have never been this conflicted about a trial before.

It's a tough one, ITA. I do not believe he killed his wife, but I can understand where you could be on the fence.

[texasgal]

The most interesting thing I find about this case is the reaction of the posters on this board. More often than not, many of us immediately are suspicious of the husband .. and are often accused of being men-haters or trying to "railroad" them just because they are the spouse.

Almost immediately with this case, the tone was different.

I'm almost ALWAYS suspicious of husbands' stories, or the last friends to see a deceased person .. however, I listened to his 911 call over and over and read a bit on this case from the beginning and I NEVER believed him guilty.

What does that mean? Well, probably nothing. But for a bunch of folks that have pretty good instincts, and usually look at the husband, we sure don't see this one like that, huh?

[Marcia3]

The most interesting thing I find about this case is the reaction of the posters on this board. More often than not, many of us immediately are suspicious of the husband .. and are often accused of being men-haters or trying to "railroad" them just because they are the spouse.

Almost immediately with this case, the tone was different.

I'm almost ALWAYS suspicious of husbands' stories, or the last friends to see a deceased person .. however, I listened to his 911 call over and over and read a bit on this case from the beginning and I NEVER believed him guilty.

What does that mean? Well, probably nothing. But for a bunch of folks that have pretty good instincts, and usually look at the husband, we sure don't see this one like that, huh?

Yep, TexasGal, I am usually the first to suspect the husband, and then watch gleefully while he is tried, convicted, sentenced, and sent to prison. But in this case, I was not convinced of his guilt from the start.

Ironic that you and I have listened multiple times to his 911 call and came to the conclusion that he was not guilty of murdering his wife, but the jury who convicted him claim that his 911 call had the opposite effect on them. Maybe they heard what they wanted to...all I know is that if I ever have to call 911 to report a death, I'm going to rehearse it first.

[Crispy]

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/attorney-asks-for-acquittal-or-new-trial-for-bathtub-killer-76618.html

Widmer attorneys ask for new trial or acquittal. They say that the prosecutions mention of rigor mortis during closings undoubtedly prejudiced the jury. They say this because of one of the jurors interview after the verdict. There are other things in the motion as well.

http://www.wlwt.com/download/2009/0409/19142772.pdf
Motion for acquittal or new trial

I wonder what Bronson is going to say about this....

[Marcia3]

Ryan Widmer's mother sat down with the Cincinnati Enquirer and gave her first interview since the verdict:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090409/NEWS0107/304090084

[Marcia3]

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/attorney-asks-for-acquittal-or-new-trial-for-bathtub-killer-76618.html

Widmer attorneys ask for new trial or acquittal. They say that the prosecutions mention of rigor mortis during closings undoubtedly prejudiced the jury. They say this because of one of the jurors interview after the verdict. There are other things in the motion as well.

http://www.wlwt.com/download/2009/0409/19142772.pdf
Motion for acquittal or new trial

I wonder what Bronson is going to say about this....

I think I know what Bronson's response will be, he will not set aside the guilty verdict. I'm sure Widmer's attorneys are aware that this legal maneuver will not provide the result they are going for, but it never hurts to try, right?

Widmer was steamrolled by the corrupt Warren County prosecutor's office from day one. They needed a high-profile murder case and Sarah's untimely death gave them just what they wanted - now Rachel Hutzel will be on Dateline, and she has worked this controversial verdict for everything she can get from it, IMO, with all of her media appearances and grandstanding. Note, however, that she herself did not try this case. JMO, she didn't want to risk a NG verdict...but now that the state has prevailed, she can't stop talking about it, and hogging all the limelight to boot! But Ms. Hutzel has her eye on a grander office somewhere in Ohio, at least that's what I've been hearing.

I am waiting to see how this goes, but I'm afraid Ryan is in for a long time behind bars before he sees justice. JMO, of course.

[JD1974]

Ryan Widmer's mother sat down with the Cincinnati Enquirer and gave her first interview since the verdict:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090409/NEWS0107/304090084



Heartbreaking to read but at the same time it really makes me angry. I truly believe Ryan isn't guilty. I wonder if someone will set up a defense fund to help Jill Widmer?

Most comments I have seen have said either the state didn't prove or that Ryan is innocent, Mrs. Widmer seems to have a lot of people who are on her side and believe her son should not have been found guilty.

[JD1974]

I think I know what Bronson's response will be, he will not set aside the guilty verdict. I'm sure Widmer's attorneys are aware that this legal maneuver will not provide the result they are going for, but it never hurts to try, right?

Widmer was steamrolled by the corrupt Warren County prosecutor's office from day one. They needed a high-profile murder case and Sarah's untimely death gave them just what they wanted - now Rachel Hutzel will be on Dateline, and she has worked this controversial verdict for everything she can get from it, IMO, with all of her media appearances and grandstanding. Note, however, that she herself did not try this case. JMO, she didn't want to risk a NG verdict...but now that the state has prevailed, she can't stop talking about it, and hogging all the limelight to boot! But Ms. Hutzel has her eye on a grander office somewhere in Ohio, at least that's what I've been hearing.

I am waiting to see how this goes, but I'm afraid Ryan is in for a long time behind bars before he sees justice. JMO, of course.


ITA and Hutzel makes me sick, she is all over giving interviews yet just like you stated she didn't try the case because she didn't want to risk a NG verdict, she must have had a lot of faith in the states case...

I really hope something happens before Ryan has to spend years in prison but that is usually what happens. Have you been reading the comments from their newspapers? I would guess at least 90% of the comments I have seen are from people that are angry about how this case turned out.

[Marcia3]

Heartbreaking to read but at the same time it really makes me angry. I truly believe Ryan isn't guilty. I wonder if someone will set up a defense fund to help Jill Widmer?

Most comments I have seen have said either the state didn't prove or that Ryan is innocent, Mrs. Widmer seems to have a lot of people who are on her side and believe her son should not have been found guilty.

There is a defense fund set up at one of the Cincinnati banks. You can find the link on one of the websites, I just don't know if we're supposed to give out that kind of information on this site.

The outrage over this case is everywhere in this area. (I live in central Ohio). I have not heard a single person with knowledge of this case who agrees with the verdict.

[Marcia3]

From Cincinnati.com:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090410/NEWS0107/304100026

Wow, this case is getting stranger by the hour.

[Crispy]

Another article on the alleged jury misconduct

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/widmer-attorney-alleges-jury-misconduct-77666.html

I wonder why this juror didn't come forward before and why he voted guilty.

[JD1974]

Another article on the alleged jury misconduct

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/widmer-attorney-alleges-jury-misconduct-77666.html

I wonder why this juror didn't come forward before and why he voted guilty.


Maybe he didn't realize what he was doing was wrong? Realized after the request for a new trial was submitted. At least I am hoping that's what it is....

[Marcia3]

Another article on the alleged jury misconduct

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/widmer-attorney-alleges-jury-misconduct-77666.html

I wonder why this juror didn't come forward before and why he voted guilty.

This jury appears to have deliberated outside the box from the start. If you listen to the raw video of an interview with one of the jurors (not the one who came forward on Friday), he very clearly states (more than once) that various theories were debated and discussed regarding what might have happened when Sarah died. Here's the link to that interview - it's on the upper right corner of the page:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19148780/detail.html

Juries are not allowed to consider anything outside of the evidence that was presented at trial. This jury was given instruction by the judge that even if they "thought he did it" they were not to find him guilty using anything other than the evidence they had been presented. Clearly this jury considered everything under the sun in arriving at their verdict.

As of this morning, it is expected that Judge Bronson will schedule a hearing regarding these two motions submitted by the defense. In the meantime, Ryan Widmer waits in Orient OH at the reception center where all convicted felons are sent before being assigned to a prison. I am sincerely hoping that they allow him to remain there while these issues are pending and do not process him out to a maximum security facility where he will face the horrors that only prison can bring.

[Aradia5]

Another article on the alleged jury misconduct

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/widmer-attorney-alleges-jury-misconduct-77666.html

I wonder why this juror didn't come forward before and why he voted guilty.

Unreal. Only in Ohio. :angry:

[Aradia5]

I was so happy to read about the juror that came forward. This verdict made me sick, I don't think Sarah Widmer was murdered, and it is heartbreaking what both of these families have been through, most especially Ryan Widmer.
ITA!!!! :cursing::cursing:

[Ninja108]

My guess is the judge will grant the defense's motions. Because if what this juror says is true, the conduct by some of the jurors IS grounds for a new trial. They didn't base a verdict based on the evidence before them. Rather, they did their own experiments and came to a conclusion based on that.

[Marcia3]

From News 5 in Cincinnati:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19189175/detail.html

I am concerned about a state law in Ohio which requires a third-party verification of jury misconduct. If Bronson invokes that law in regards to the juror's affadavit, it would be grounds to dismiss the motion. That would require Rittgers (the defense atty) to take this motion to a federal court level because federal law in a federal court "trumps" state law. Obviously that could take quite a lot of time.

On the other hand, Bronson could grant defense's motion for an aquittal, which would suit me just fine.

[Marcia3]

Ryan Widmer has been transferred to a state prison. A hearing on jury misconduct and prosecutorial error is scheduled for next Friday, but in the meantime, he has been moved from the reception center in Orient, OH:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19206953/detail.html

The juror who came forward with the allegation of jury misconduct has been subpoenaed:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090416/NEWS0107/304160090

[Barbara2]

Ryan Widmer has been transferred to a state prison. A hearing on jury misconduct and prosecutorial error is scheduled for next Friday, but in the meantime, he has been moved from the reception center in Orient, OH:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19206953/detail.html

The juror who came forward with the allegation of jury misconduct has been subpoenaed:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090416/NEWS0107/304160090

I'm glad he got to go to Warren. It is the closest to his home and the nicest of the prisons if one can be nice. It looks more like a college campus than a prison. At this point I still don't believe he is guilty. I was not in the courtroom so I didn't hear the evidence but based on what I have heard, I just don't see this being a murder.

[Amy]

I'm glad he got to go to Warren. It is the closest to his home and the nicest of the prisons if one can be nice. It looks more like a college campus than a prison. At this point I still don't believe he is guilty. I was not in the courtroom so I didn't hear the evidence but based on what I have heard, I just don't see this being a murder.

I understand about having to investigate unattended deaths. What I don't understand is that is seems these days, LE thinks ALL unattended deaths must be murder. Sometimes they just aren't. I don't know all the details of the case, but what I have read of testimony, and of posts, it does not seem that this fellow murdered his wife. It just doesn't.

[Marcia3]

I'm glad he got to go to Warren. It is the closest to his home and the nicest of the prisons if one can be nice. It looks more like a college campus than a prison. At this point I still don't believe he is guilty. I was not in the courtroom so I didn't hear the evidence but based on what I have heard, I just don't see this being a murder.

Yes, and it is closest to his family, who live in the Mason area.

ITA on the case. This was not a murder, IMO, and I have thought that from the beginning.

[Ninja108]

If the judge does grant a new trial, the DA in this case shot herself in the foot. She basically opened her mouth to any reporter that asked and revealed information that hadn't been made public and wasn't allowed in during the trial because it would have been prejudical to the defendent. Her excuse was that it was available under public record. Bull, anything that could be used in a possible retrial isn't going to be released to the public. Her actions alone have made it very possible that if a retrial is granted, it will be moved to another county or acquited outright. As to the possible retrial, not following a judge's instructions and possibly in this case, outright ignoring them, is most certainly grounds for a new trial. If what this juror says is true, then some of the jurors didn't find him guilty based on the evidence before them, but rather, based on their own experiments.

[Crispy]

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/seven-jurors-from-bathtub-killer-trial-subpoenaed-84842.html

Seven jurors subpoenaed. I have a feeling he is going to get a new trial.

[Hengirl]

Hopefully he'll be acquitted, so he can finally have a chance to properly grieve over his wife.

[Leanne Weich]

I've also never felt Ryan is guilty. Does anyone know if he still has his in-law's support?

[Marcia3]

I've also never felt Ryan is guilty. Does anyone know if he still has his in-law's support?

That's a question that only those involved might be able to answer. Sarah's father died the year before she did, IIRC, and her mother and brother attended most days of the trial. They did not attend the day that the pros put on the coroners and the autospy pictures, which is quite understandable.

When Ryan was first arrested, his in-laws supported him publicly, and even asked for a reduction in his bail so that he could get out to attend the funeral. While he was awaiting trial, not much was heard from the Stewards (Sarah's family/maiden name). They did not attend the verdict reading and have only made one public statement since Ryan was found guilty. That statement did not indicate where they stand on Ryan's guilt or innocence, just that no matter what the verdict, it would not bring Sarah back to them.

IMO, the pros got a hold of them and convinced them that Ryan had killed Sarah before the trial so that they could have the victim's family in their camp. Or maybe they came to that conclusion on their own. Or maybe they don't know what to think.

[Leanne Weich]

Thanks Marcia. I do hope if they don't still support him that they came to that conclusion without being browbeaten into it by the prosecution.

[Crispy]

Prosecutors file their motions

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/prosecution-files-response-in-request-for-new-widmer-trial-91477.html

They are opposing the motion for a new trial(of course) also they want a motion to quash the subpoenas to the jurors and to strike the affidavit of the one juror. I'll post the actual filing when I find it.

[Marcia3]

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19261669/detail.html?treets=cin&tml=cin_break&ts=T&tmi=cin_break_1_12060104232009

"Widmer Juror: Home Tests Influenced My Guilty Vote"

Included in this article are the affidavits from the two jurors, as well as the motion in response to the prosecutors motions filed yesterday on the request for aquittal or a new trial.

[5boxersmom]

Judge Makes Decision On Widmer Retrial, Acquittal

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Judge-Makes-Decision-On-Widmer-Retrial-Acquittal/Zh_vE40XG0ugQVQOMdewIA.cspx

[Marcia3]

I, for one, am waiting on pins and needles. The decision is expected to be made public in another hour or two...

[5boxersmom]

Ryan Widmer did not get the acquittal he was seeking from a Warren County Judge today.

The judge has not yet turned down Widmer's request for a new trial.

http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story/Judge-No-Aquittal-For-Ryan-Widmer/gVoAvtweJkuch-ZZ5Zg7NA.cspx

[Crispy]

I've said many times I don't know if he's guilty or not guilty, but I think he should get a new trial. The jurors clearly used their own wet/dry experiments to reach a verdict. jmo

[Crispy]

Jurors felt harassed by Widmer defense
http://www.wlwt.com/news/19712347/detail.html

Their affidavits are in there also. They just don't sound honest to me at all. I can see the one case where the woman said she put on her robe and started to do her hair, but the one woman said she was preoccupied by the deliberations and she realized that she didn't dry off? I guess we should give her the saintly jury award for being so dedicated. IMO this is obvious. He should get a new trial. Too bad my opinion doesn't matter.

[Marcia3]

Me, too, Crispy. This whole thing has stunk to high heavens since day one. Just given the fact that Ryan was charged with murder before the autospy results were in should be a red flag.

As long as Judge Bronson is taking to make a decision on a new trial, Ryan might end up serving his whole sentence before a determination is made.

[Crispy]

The judge is going to consider the defense rebuttals which include emails, faxes and affidavits!! It's good news but he still hasn't said when he will decide on a new trial

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19761307/detail.html

[Crispy]

The prosecution has filed their last arguments.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/19966074/detail.html

[iluvmua]

Does anybody know when Dateline is going to show the segment they taped?

[Crispy]

There was some reports that it would be on in July or August, but nothing confirmed. If I find out when it will be on I'll post it on here.

[Crispy]

Judge will grant hearing in Widmer case

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/crime/judge-will-grant-hearing-in-widmer-murder-case-204609.html

Another article said that it doesn't mean he is automatically getting a new trial, but it sure sounds like Bronson is leaning that way.

[Crispy]

Both the defense and the prosecution have said they will not request a hearing. Now we wait for the judge to make his official ruling.

[5boxersmom]

He is getting a new trial. Breaking news www.wcpo.com

Bond hearing at 1 pm today.

[kelloggirl]

He is getting a new trial. Breaking news www.wcpo.com

Bond hearing at 1 pm today.

Does anyone know if either or both sides are allowed to present new evidence or new tests? For example, the jurors admitted to conducting a "How Long Does It Take for a Person to Dry After a Bath" tests but neither side presented any scientific data about how long it would take. Can the defense now conduct tests knowing that this is an issue in the minds of jurors to attempt to disprove that the non-scientific belief that it is unlikely a person could be dry after the same number of minutes that Sara was pulled from the bath?

(Not saying it would be this issue but something similar). Not too familiar with retrials, any insight is helpful.

[5boxersmom]

Does anyone know if either or both sides are allowed to present new evidence or new tests? For example, the jurors admitted to conducting a "How Long Does It Take for a Person to Dry After a Bath" tests but neither side presented any scientific data about how long it would take. Can the defense now conduct tests knowing that this is an issue in the minds of jurors to attempt to disprove that the non-scientific belief that it is unlikely a person could be dry after the same number of minutes that Sara was pulled from the bath?

(Not saying it would be this issue but something similar). Not too familiar with retrials, any insight is helpful.

I don't know. But wouldn't they have to know the exact temp in the house, the humidity, if the AC or furnace was running? Did they know all of this? I would think all of this would come into with how fast you would dry .

jmo

[Crispy]

Well Judge Bronson is moving quick, fast and in a hurry today! His bond has been set at 1 million and the judge has already denied the prosecutors motion to reconsider his ruling. Supposedly Ryan is already on his way to Warren County jail to wait for his bond to be posted.

[Crispy]

I guess the prosecutor has filed her motion to appeal the judge's decision and she has asked the judge to delay setting a new trial date.

I personally think she is scared to go through with a second trial. She knows that she only won the first one because of blatant jury misconduct and she might not win another one. Surely she realizes that they did commit misconduct right?

[Marcia3]

I guess the prosecutor has filed her motion to appeal the judge's decision and she has asked the judge to delay setting a new trial date.

I personally think she is scared to go through with a second trial. She knows that she only won the first one because of blatant jury misconduct and she might not win another one. Surely she realizes that they did commit misconduct right?

ITA. Ms. Hutzel got lucky with that first jury. I'm really hoping for a change in venue. IMO Warren County jury pool is contaminated at this point. There's an interesting article at Cincinnati.com today (actually it started running over the weekend) as tomorrow, 8/11, is the anniversary of Sara Widmer's death:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090809/NEWS01/908100303/Year+later++case+undecided

[Crispy]

Just to let everyone know, the court of appeals denied the prosecutions request to block a new trial. Ryan was released on bond and no new trial date has been set. I'll post if they set a date anytime soon.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Ryan-Widmer-Released-From-Jail/KSGpuy1_HESrrn0ImTaH2w.cspx

[JD1974]

Wow I am so happy to hear Ryan will get a new trial, thanks for all the updates and I am also glad Ryan will be out of prison while awaiting the new trial!

[Crispy]

From what I've read the Dateline episode with this case will air on Sept. 18th. I'm interested to see how they cover it.

[Marcia3]

Yes, it will air 9/18. Here's a link:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090911/NEWS01/909120345/1163/NEWS0107/Widmer+case+to+air+on++Dateline+NBC+

[Crispy]

Prosecutors won't appeal decision. New trial moving forward.

From the article "Warren County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel said Tuesday, Sept. 15 while she believes she has a strong enough case to prevail in the Ohio Supreme Court, out of deference to Sarah Widmer’s family, she won’t file an appeal and they’ll go to trial for the second time against Widmer."

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/crime/prosecutor-wont-appeal-decision-in-widmer-murder-case-299811.html

[cantstandnuts]

I missed the trial, but from what I read of the case, there doesn't seem to be any motive for Ryan to have committed this.

Plus, she had a habit of falling asleep at a moment's notice, IIRC.

I'm glad there will be a new trial. I just never thought he was guilty...of course, that's after reading a couple articles...but still, just didn't seem to scream murder. :confused:

[juliekan]

I missed the trial, but from what I read of the case, there doesn't seem to be any motive for Ryan to have committed this.

Plus, she had a habit of falling asleep at a moment's notice, IIRC.

I'm glad there will be a new trial. I just never thought he was guilty...of course, that's after reading a couple articles...but still, just didn't seem to scream murder. :confused:

I read some of the earlier postings on this case while it was happening, never could think who was right or wrong. Then saw the show the other night, and cannot see where he had any motive. Then again, I saw a show about Mark and Julie Jensen that sorta left the question open, when I KNEW he was so obviously guilty, that I don't feel these shows can be trusted. whatever, I can't see a motive for him to have done this....

[Roux]

I didn't follow closely on the boards, but did catch the last half of the show the other night. I'm really on the fence. It's hard to believe someone could fall asleep so deeply that they wouldn't wake up as they started to drown. In any event, he's getting another trial.

[Crispy]

There will be a status hearing today around 2p.m. They might set a new trial date.

[Crispy]

New trial date set for March 15, 2010.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/21229786/detail.html#

[Crispy]

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/crime/911-dispatcher-on-widmer-call-may-have-been-asleep-report-says-347888.html

Well this is just lovely isn't it?

[Barbara2]

Here is another article that goes into a little bit more detail and has a link to the audio of the 911 call in case someone wants to listen again:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091014/NEWS0107/310140046/Operator+investigated+in+Widmer+call

[bugout]

Just the defense nit picking at anything they can grab on to, imo.
It's unfortunate but in no way would it have changed the staging of the 911 call.
I think he is guilty as the day is long and how scary, he walks among us.

I will need a refresher course but has he profited from her death, from any life insurance policy? TIA

Bug

[Leanne Weich]

I do not believe he is guilty. He gained nothing from her death and his in-laws stood by him until the DA, imo, poisoned their mind against him.

[Marcia3]

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/crime/911-dispatcher-on-widmer-call-may-have-been-asleep-report-says-347888.html

Well this is just lovely isn't it?

In all honesty, I thought maybe the 911 operator was stoned or something based on his responses to Ryan's call.

That call was NOT staged. I'd like to know exactly how people are supposed to sound when they call 911...just in case I ever have to do it. I want to perform up to the "standard."

[Marcia3]

I do not believe he is guilty. He gained nothing from her death and his in-laws stood by him until the DA, imo, poisoned their mind against him.

ITA. Not only did he not gain anything monetarily, he wound up losing their house to foreclosure because he could no longer make the mortgage payments after Sarah's death and his loss of income (plus legal expenses). And no life insurance payout since there was no policy.

I think Sarah died of inexplicable causes (which happens about 20K times each year in this country) and unfortunately, an ambitious prosecutor decided to turn it into a murder case.

[Barbara2]

In all honesty, I thought maybe the 911 operator was stoned or something based on his responses to Ryan's call.

That call was NOT staged. I'd like to know exactly how people are supposed to sound when they call 911...just in case I ever have to do it. I want to perform up to the "standard."

I agree with you. The 911 operator did a horrible job of handling this call and as a result I think it made some misjudge Ryan. I listened to the call again today and I thought Ryan sounded very genuine, sincere and devastated.

[Marcia3]

I agree with you. The 911 operator did a horrible job of handling this call and as a result I think it made some misjudge Ryan. I listened to the call again today and I thought Ryan sounded very genuine, sincere and devastated.

At the trial, the 911 operator said he thought Ryan sounded "too calm" for the situation at hand, and yet during the call he specifically tells Ryan (more than once) to "calm down."

So, dude, which is it? I'm sure Ryan's new attorneys will cover this in the retrial.

[Crispy]

Just the defense nit picking at anything they can grab on to, imo.
It's unfortunate but in no way would it have changed the staging of the 911 call.
I think he is guilty as the day is long and how scary, he walks among us.

I will need a refresher course but has he profited from her death, from any life insurance policy? TIA

Bug

The defense atty didn't bring this up. The emergency services supervisor did the investigation and then someone else gave it to the defense.

He has not profited from her death. I'm pretty sure he went broke and I think his mother also used a good bit of her income to defend him during the first trial.

I live in Warren County so I'd like to know that the people on the other end of the line know what they are doing and that if I should need their assistance they are prepared. I think he mishandled that call. Ryan said he wasn't sure if he knew how to do CPR(not his exact words) and the operator didn't even offer to tell him how to do it correctly.

[SanLewy]

Ryan's reaction to hearing the guilty verdict read told me he was not just not guilty but indeed factually innocent.

[Barbara2]

Ryan's reaction to hearing the guilty verdict read told me he was not just not guilty but indeed factually innocent.

I got that same inclination from listening to the 911 call. That was a man in shock and completely distraught. His conviction is the biggest travesty of justice I have seen in a very long time.

[ksk1]

"My wife fell asleep in the bathroom and I think she is dead" I dont believe the 911 call. He tries to explain way too much. R Widmere does not know what could have happened at the time. She could have fell asleep, she could have took too much medication, ect. "I was down stairs watching tv" No one asked where he was when this happened.
I am not a doctor, but you would have to be in a coma in order not to wake up when water is filling your mouth, and lungs, you would at least begin to choke and instinct to save your own life, I think, would kick in.
Just because there was not a money motive does not mean he did not do this. But I do agree the 911 operator was not helpful. R Widmere said he did CPR as best he could, the operator should have gave him instructions, also, letting the water out of the tub (although I believe it had already been let out) is losing potential evidence down the drain. JMO

[Marcia3]

"My wife fell asleep in the bathroom and I think she is dead" I dont believe the 911 call. He tries to explain way too much. R Widmere does not know what could have happened at the time. She could have fell asleep, she could have took too much medication, ect. "I was down stairs watching tv" No one asked where he was when this happened.
I am not a doctor, but you would have to be in a coma in order not to wake up when water is filling your mouth, and lungs, you would at least begin to choke and instinct to save your own life, I think, would kick in.
Just because there was not a money motive does not mean he did not do this. But I do agree the 911 operator was not helpful. R Widmere said he did CPR as best he could, the operator should have gave him instructions, also, letting the water out of the tub (although I believe it had already been let out) is losing potential evidence down the drain. JMO

Unless you have been in this type of situation, you have no idea what is a normal reaction and what is out of norm.

I've had to dial 911 just once and I'm sure I sounded like a complete moron since I was in a panic and trying so hard to stay calm. I over-explained what was going on (house fire) and the operator had to ask a lot of questions, even though I was talking so much that she had to interrupt me!

So I wouldn't judge someone's innocence or guilt based on how they sound on a 911 call. Everyone reacts differently, and don't you think Ryan might have been in a state of complete disbelief at that point? Who would think that you would find your young spouse in a tub of water, apparently dead or close to it?

Nope, IMO, he got a raw deal. Sarah died one of the inexplicable deaths that happen in this country thousands of times every year. She was near death already when she slipped underwater...JMO.

[Details]

I do not believe he is guilty. He gained nothing from her death and his in-laws stood by him until the DA, imo, poisoned their mind against him.Husbands have been killing wives since the dawn of marriage. What he gains - he doesn't have to go through a divorce and he inherits all she has. Killers aren't always nice enough to let us in on their motives, and marriages can collapse without showing signs to others.

I've read everything on this case - I think I'm a strong guilty. The jurors home experiments match what others have seen - that his story to 911 simply does not fit the state of her body, of the bathroom floor. Bathtubs are so small - how can she have been face down - as he says initially? And face up - how can she submerge enough? It's barely possible - but if she did, drained water or not, she'd be wet still when the paramedics got there. The 911 call, his emotional state - they don't matter to me, other than how his story to 911 matches or does not match the facts. But that matters a ton.

I fall asleep easily too - all the time. And if you find me dead in a tub - you'd better start investigating!