Michelle Fisher Young 3-18-09

[Stellagant]

Sorry, forgot about the keys ... let me revise my statement: based solely on the 911 call and the keys, you theorize that Meredith is guilty of murder.

She's not guilty of murder. She wasn't even at the scene until Jason Young asked her to kindly go to the house to retrieve an outdated purse advertisement printout. Apparently he has claimed that the print out was related to an anniversary gift he considered purchasing for Michelle ... but the anniversary was weeks earlier, and the printout was for an expired second hand purchase. Not sure how many women are happy with a used purse as a gift for an anniversary that passed last month but hey ... maybe some will argue it's A-OK.


I think Meredith participated in the murder based on a number of reasons, several of which I have posted numerous times on this forum. I've never said my reasons were "solely on the 911 call and the keys." That's just more of your misrepresentation of opinions that don't agree with you.

It's your opinion Meredith isn't guilty and that's fine. Not sure where you get the idea the purse on eBay was used. You have a habit of fabricating your own facts in this case.

[Stellagant]

In view of the one use of Jason's key card, it is entirely possibly that there are no more pictures of Jason after the one in the hallway. Since the SW says that they can't confirm Jason's whereabouts between 12:01Am and 7:40Am on November 3rd, I suspect this is the case.

We know that Jason couldn't leave his room, get to the lobby and back upstairs without being caught on camera. So it stands to reason that if there are not pictures of Jason after the 11:59PM picture in the hall, then he has a problem. It could very well be what caused LE to try to confirm Jason's "alibi".

He not only had to get back upstairs, but out of the hotel in the morning without being caught on camera. I don't believe this happened and don't believe a jury will either. Not everything in a murder case is laid right out for the jurors, remember the murderer is doing things to try and NOT get caught. Jurors are not asked to check their common sense at the Courthouse door. MOO

WRONG. You are selectively reading and then putting your own spin on the search warrant. Here's what the search warrant actually states and nowhere does it state LE can't confirm Jason's whereabouts with security video, it states that Jason hasn't confirmed it to LE.:

"Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 07:40 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf


The security video captured Jason headed toward the exit at
11:58 pm, not 12:01 am. Obviously, there is also security video or a witness placing Jason at 12:01 am, somewhere else.

[5swab5]

I think Meredith participated in the murder based on a number of reasons, several of which I have posted numerous times on this forum. I've never said my reasons were "solely on the 911 call and the keys." (snipped)

Your reasons don't seem to be based on any kind of evidence, as the SWs and statements by LE plainly state that Jason is and has always been the focus of the investigation.

Spivey even went so far earlier this month to testify in court that he not only believed that Jason killed Michelle, but that it was premeditated. IMO

[Stellagant]

Thank you! If the camera is above the door and records continuously, then depending on how it's angled, it would at a minimum show him very, very close to the door. Perhaps within arms reach. I think if it was physically impossible for the camera to show him walking out into the evening air, but it did show him say within arms reach, then that would be very convincing evidence that he left the hotel (to me anyway). It would also mean that they should have footage of him walking back in and would know what time that would have been. Does anyone see things differently in terms of what a continuously working video camera located right above an exit door taking continuous video (vs. periodic snapshots) would show? Obviously, the amount of time between snapshots would be relevant to how close the camera would catch him to the exit door.......But, if it's not continuous or there are lengthy gaps and JY actually did leave, then they'd never be able to prove it via video anyway.

LE's theory is that he placed a rock in the door so obviously they have something to support their theory that he returned to his room. Even if the video was captured every few seconds, it does take more than a few seconds to walk down a hallway and go through an exit doorway.

I believe they do have footage of Jason walking back in at 12:01 am. The video of him walking toward the exit is at 11:58 pm. The search warrant states Jason hasn't told them where he was between 12:01 am and 7:40 am.

[Stellagant]

Your reasons don't seem to be based on any kind of evidence, as the SWs and statements by LE plainly state that Jason is and has always been the focus of the investigation.

Spivey even went so far earlier this month to testify in court that he not only believed that Jason killed Michelle, but that it was premeditated. IMO


My reasons are based on real evidence.

Spivey's opinion isn't evidence nor is he infallible. He hasn't managed to obtain an arrest even after expressing his opinion months ago.

[janesdeaan]

My reasons are based on real evidence.

Spivey's opinion isn't evidence nor is he infallible. He hasn't managed to obtain an arrest even after expressing his opinion months ago.

Your opinion is based on real evidence ? Evidence as you call it, could that be from applications for Search Warrants ? Det. Spivey's opinion may not be evidence in YOUR opinion, but he has been the lead detective on this case for 2+ years, therefore privy to the REAL EVIDENCE, correct ?
I'm putting my stock on Spivey's opinion, hands down.

[5swab5]

WRONG. You are selectively reading and then putting your own spin on the search warrant. Here's what the search warrant actually states and nowhere does it state LE can't confirm Jason's whereabouts with security video, it states that Jason hasn't confirmed it to LE.:

"Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 07:40 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf


The security video captured Jason headed toward the exit at
11:58 pm, not 12:01 am. Obviously, there is also security video or a witness placing Jason at 12:01 am, somewhere else.

Whatever....Jason hasn't confirmed. A distinction, without a difference.:shrug:

As for the 12:01 time stamp, there is no way to eliminate the possibility that is the time on the next video still or to be able to tell if that is the time on another camera, perhaps they weren't perfectly synchronized. MOO

[Tia]

Your opinion is based on real evidence ? Evidence as you call it, could that be from applications for Search Warrants ? Det. Spivey's opinion may not be evidence in YOUR opinion, but he has been the lead detective on this case for 2+ years, therefore privy to the REAL EVIDENCE, correct ?
I'm putting my stock on Spivey's opinion, hands down.


What is this "real evidence"??

Anyone know?


JMO

[Stellagant]

How do you know that neither Meredith nor LE tried to call Jason that afternoon? According to the SWs, Jason was either on the phone with MM or not answering. He didn't answer Linda's calls and he didn't return her call despite her voicemail messages.

That's my point - if Jason killed Michelle, he didn't want to be told of Michelle's death prior to reaching Brevard. If he had asked Meredith to check on Michelle, then logic dictates he would be expecting a call from Meredith to report on Michelle and couldn't ignore incoming calls without it seeming suspicious. By asking Meredith to retrieve a printout, however, he could allege he wasn't expecting a call back.

JMO

Jason was driving in the mountains with cell phone reception spotty at best so he had an excuse for not answering that doesn't raise suspicion as to why he didn't answer Linda's messages. Leaving his child alone with the dead body for hours prior to calling Meredith and just leaving a message is not evidence of pre-meditated murder because there were too many variables he didn't know or couldn't control. He had no way of knowing if Meredith would go to the house or when. He had no way of knowing Cassidy's actions.

[janesdeaan]

What is this "real evidence"??

Anyone know?


JMO

Hi Tia ! Evidently,:rolleyes: we have a poster here who claims they do !!

[janesdeaan]

Jason was driving in the mountains with cell phone reception spotty at best so he had an excuse for not answering that doesn't raise suspicion as to why he didn't answer Linda's messages. Leaving his child alone with the dead body for hours prior to calling Meredith and just leaving a message is not evidence of pre-meditated murder because there were too many variables he didn't know or couldn't control. He had no way of knowing if Meredith would go to the house or when. He had no way of knowing Cassidy's actions.

From what we've heard regarding Jason's phone activity, I'd say his reception is great !

[Tia]

Hi Tia ! Evidently,:rolleyes: we have a poster here who claims they do !!

Hi!!

Any links for this "evidence"?


JMO

[Cardinal]

Hi!!

Any links for this "evidence"?


JMO

I've been asking for months. I keep getting brushed off to the links thread.

[janesdeaan]

Hi!!

Any links for this "evidence"?


JMO

Don't think you'll get any from Spivey until GJ day or later. As for the poster here who claims they have based their opinion on it? I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Tia]

I've been asking for months. I keep getting brushed off to the links thread.

Any particular link?

I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe Meredith had any involvement. The poor girl was simply a pawn in Jason's evil plan.

JMO

[Tia]

Don't think you'll get any from Spivey until GJ day or later. As for the poster here who claims they have based their opinion on it? I wouldn't hold my breath.

True.

IMO, its very wrong to accuse someone who isn't even named a suspect and with nothing to back up the reason for the accusation.

JMO

[janesdeaan]

Any particular link?

I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe Meredith had any involvement. The poor girl was simply a pawn in Jason's evil plan.

JMO

ITA, and we've seen nothing linking Meredith to this crime because she had nothing to do with it, IMO. That's what I meant about Jason signing off on the custody agreement, he had counsel (Alice Stubbs) who would have certainly known if Meredith was a suspect. Since Jason did sign off custody, that tells me she is no suspect !! Besides the fact I never thought it anyway, absolutely nothing has pointed towards her.

[Cardinal]

Any particular link?

I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe Meredith had any involvement. The poor girl was simply a pawn in Jason's evil plan.

JMO

No, no particular link. Just a general brush off. You know, I've posted a couple of theories that didn't pan out. But I've always been willing to explain why I thought the way I did.

When I get a reference to the links thread as opposed to an explanation of why someone has the theory they do, I'm inclined to believe the theory doesn't hold water.

JMO

[5swab5]

LE's theory is that he placed a rock in the door so obviously they have something to support their theory that he returned to his room. Even if the video was captured every few seconds, it does take more than a few seconds to walk down a hallway and go through an exit doorway.

I believe they do have footage of Jason walking back in at 12:01 am. The video of him walking toward the exit is at 11:58 pm. The search warrant states Jason hasn't told them where he was between 12:01 am and 7:40 am.


OOps, the time stamp on that photo is 23:59:40. MOO

[janesdeaan]

No, no particular link. Just a general brush off. You know, I've posted a couple of theories that didn't pan out. But I've always been willing to explain why I thought the way I did.

When I get a reference to the links thread as opposed to an explanation of why someone has the theory they do, I'm inclined to believe the theory doesn't hold water.

JMO

Funny how that works isn't it, funny and very transparent, IMO. I am very interested in who gbmy thinks could have done it, that poster is adamant that it wasn't Jason, but who ?

[Tia]

ITA, and we've seen nothing linking Meredith to this crime because she had nothing to do with it, IMO. That's what I meant about Jason signing off on the custody agreement, he had counsel (Alice Stubbs) who would have certainly known if Meredith was a suspect. Since Jason did sign off custody, that tells me she is no suspect !! Besides the fact I never thought it anyway, absolutely nothing has pointed towards her.

Jason's attorney NEVER would have let him come to that agreement if he or she had any inkling Meredith were involved.

Why would he just sign away primary physical custody of his child to a murderer?

[janesdeaan]

Jason's attorney NEVER would have let him come to that agreement if he or she had any inkling Meredith were involved.

Why would he just sign away primary physical custody of his child to a murderer?

Exactly !!:thumbup:

[janesdeaan]

OOps, the time stamp on that photo is 23:59:40. MOO

O M G Well, imagine that ! Not another misrepresentation of the "facts" was it ? Swabby, if you weren't here and on your tippy toes, I swear we'd be hurtin !! Good job kiddo !!!!!

[5swab5]

Jason was driving in the mountains with cell phone reception spotty at best so he had an excuse for not answering that doesn't raise suspicion as to why he didn't answer Linda's messages. Leaving his child alone with the dead body for hours prior to calling Meredith and just leaving a message is not evidence of pre-meditated murder because there were too many variables he didn't know or couldn't control. He had no way of knowing if Meredith would go to the house or when. He had no way of knowing Cassidy's actions.

I don't know how spotty it could have been.

He talked to Pat 28 times.
He got 4 voice mails from Linda.
He called Michelle Young's work number.
He called Michelle Young's cell phone.
He called Meredith once.
He checked his voice mail.
He called Michelle Money, lord only knows how many times.

All of this happened between 7:49AM and 2:52PM.

Some people in this country would love to have such "spotty" reception. MOO!


As for the rest of your post. :lol:

[Tia]

Funny how that works isn't it, funny and very transparent, IMO. I am very interested in who gbmy thinks could have done it, that poster is adamant that it wasn't Jason, but who ?

I could buy the SODDI theory if Jason didn't:
refuse to speak with LE
hang up on LE
refuse to attend a memorial for Michelle
refuse to put a headstone on Michelle's grave
continue communication with MM after Michelle's death
refuse to collect the LE $
allow himself to be declared Michelle's "slayer"
sit back and allow Meredith primary physical custody of Cassidy

and so on........


JMO

[Stellagant]

OOps, the time stamp on that photo is 23:59:40. MOO

"The video was recorded at approximately 2358 hours (11:58 pm) on November 2, 2006 on and, in part, shows Mr. Young as he headed towards a side exit door.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Obviously, there is more to the video than just one shot Jason headed towards a side door.

:rolleyes:

[Tia]

I don't know how spotty it could have been.

He talked to Pat 28 times.
He got 4 voice mails from Linda.
He called Michelle Young's work number.
He called Michelle Young's cell phone.
He called Meredith once.
He checked his voice mail.
He called Michelle Money, lord only knows how many times.

All of this happened between 7:49AM and 2:52PM.

Some people in this country would love to have such "spotty" reception. MOO


As for the rest of your post. :lol:

Spotty??? :w00t:

Hardly!!

[janesdeaan]

I could buy the SODDI theory if Jason didn't:
refuse to speak with LE
hang up on LE
refuse to attend a memorial for Michelle
refuse to put a headstone on Michelle's grave
continue communication with MM after Michelle's death
refuse to collect the LE $
allow himself to be declared Michelle's "slayer"
sit back and allow Meredith primary physical custody of Cassidy

and so on........


JMO

The only break I can see Jason getting is maybe, possibly he didn't squeeze his big ol feet into those size 10's after all. Which would mean he had an accomplice, but still just as thoroughly GUILTY in my book.

[Tia]

The only break I can see Jason getting is maybe, possibly he didn't squeeze his big ol feet into those size 10's after all. Which would mean he had an accomplice, but still just as thoroughly GUILTY in my book.

But then there is that pesky evidence of blisters on his feet..........

So, I don't even think that will fly!!

JMO

[5swab5]

"The video was recorded at approximately 2358 hours (11:58 pm) on November 2, 2006 on and, in part, shows Mr. Young as he headed towards a side exit door.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Obviously, there is more to the video than just one shot Jason headed towards a side door.

:rolleyes:

I don't care what that says. If you would bother to look AT the photo from the hallway, you would plainly see 11-02-06...23:59:40:rolleyes:

MOO

[janesdeaan]

But then there is that pesky evidence of blisters on his feet..........

So, I don't even think that will fly!!

JMO

yep, yep yer right, scratch that theory...

[Stellagant]

I don't know how spotty it could have been.

He talked to Pat 28 times.
He got 4 voice mails from Linda.
He called Michelle Young's work number.
He called Michelle Young's cell phone.
He called Meredith once.
He checked his voice mail.
He called Michelle Money, lord only knows how many times.

All of this happened between 7:49AM and 2:52PM.

Some people in this country would love to have such "spotty" reception. MOO


As for the rest of your post. :lol:

Was he driving in the mountains for all those 28 calls to his mother? To Michelle? Meredith? Michelle Money?

As for the rest of your post, I'll not waste my time on your silliness.

[janesdeaan]

Say, wasn't there a poster on this board who was really good at record keeping/counting down ? I wonder if they have any record of posts here that were just, plain wrong ?

[Cardinal]

Was he driving in the mountains for all those 28 calls to his mother? To Michelle? Meredith? Michelle Money?

~snipped~

Yes, he was. From Hillsville to Clintwood to Brevard - all mountainous.

[5swab5]

Yes, he was. From Hillsville to Clintwood to Brevard - all mountainous.

Exactly! Because when he was in Raleigh earning his new title of slayer, his phone was cut off.

Last ping November 2nd...11:42PM
First ping November 3rd...7:40AM

MOO

[Stellagant]

I don't care what that says. If you would bother to look AT the photo from the hallway, you would plainly see 11-02-06...23:59:40:rolleyes:

MOO

Earlier you misrepresented the search warrant and when you're proved wrong you claim you don't care what the search warrant says. You sure do play games with the truth.

Originally Posted by 5swab5
In view of the one use of Jason's key card, it is entirely possibly that there are no more pictures of Jason after the one in the hallway. Since the SW says that they can't confirm Jason's whereabouts between 12:01Am and 7:40Am on November 3rd, I suspect this is the case.


FYI: "video" and a "photo" are not the same thing.

The photo from the hallway was lifted from the 11:58 pm video mentioned in the search warrant. And nowhere in that search warrant does it say LE doesn't know Jason's whereabouts as you claimed.

:rolleyes:

[Stellagant]

Yes, he was. From Hillsville to Clintwood to Brevard - all mountainous.

I said while he was driving. I'm sure there is cell phone reception in some areas such as the Clintwood hospital he stopped and visited.

[5swab5]

Earlier you misrepresented the search warrant and when you're proved wrong you claim you don't care what the search warrant says. You sure do play games with the truth.

Originally Posted by 5swab5
In view of the one use of Jason's key card, it is entirely possibly that there are no more pictures of Jason after the one in the hallway. Since the SW says that they can't confirm Jason's whereabouts between 12:01Am and 7:40Am on November 3rd, I suspect this is the case.


FYI: "video" and a "photo" are not the same thing.

The photo from the hallway was lifted from the 11:58 pm video mentioned in the search warrant. And nowhere in that search warrant does it say LE doesn't know Jason's whereabouts as you claimed.

:rolleyes:

You can call it the 11:58 video all you want, but you will never change the FACT that the photo is time stamped 11-02-06...23:59:40. Let it go.

MOO

[Cardinal]

I said while he was driving. I'm sure there is cell phone reception in some areas such as the Clintwood hospital he stopped and visited.

Actually, Clintwood is the MOST mountainous place on Jason's known itinerary that day. If he had cell phone reception there, the rest of his trip should have been just fine.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

[janesdeaan]

Pffftt !! On that note, I'm off to make dinner. Great discussion girls (Swabby, Tia, Cardinal and Doorbell) ta and ta

eta: (my "pffftt" was for a couple posts above yours Cardinal/Swabby) jus sayn...

[gbmy]

I conceded at the time that SW was made public that proving Jason left the hotel is problematic. I don't believe LE has a video of Jason walking through that door, simply because of the location of the camera.

And yes, I've left my door ajar with the security bar to leave my room briefly, BUT never when the door would be out of my sight and only when loading/unloading my luggage. A key card is not so difficult to carry or use.

As for the rock, no, LE can't prove Jason put it there, but it's highly coincidental that a rock would be found in the door on that particular night, particularly if hotel management can state they didn't typically find rocks in the doors. But the absence of a video of Jason returning through that door is irrelevant, because the rock was removed.

Like much of the CE in this case, each aspect can be refuted. But taken as a whole, it's overwhelming.

JMO
I agree with a lot of the things you've said here......Good post.

[gbmy]

In view of the one use of Jason's key card, it is entirely possibly that there are no more pictures of Jason after the one in the hallway. Since the SW says that they can't confirm Jason's whereabouts between 12:01Am and 7:40Am on November 3rd, I suspect this is the case.

We know that Jason couldn't leave his room, get to the lobby and back upstairs without being caught on camera. So it stands to reason that if there are not pictures of Jason after the 11:59PM picture in the hall, then he has a problem. It could very well be what caused LE to try to confirm Jason's "alibi".

He not only had to get back upstairs, but out of the hotel in the morning without being caught on camera. I don't believe this happened and don't believe a jury will either. Not everything in a murder case is laid right out for the jurors, remember the murderer is doing things to try and NOT get caught. Jurors are not asked to check their common sense at the Courthouse door. MOO
You bring up a good point. I wonder if the 14 cameras were positioned as such in the hotel where it would have been impossible for Jason to have NOT been caught on tape from the moment he walked out of his room to the moment he exited the hotel? It would seem to me they would definitely know that and they'd also know if all of the cameras along each of the paths from his room to an exit door were 100% operational the entire night. If all can be confirmed as fact and if they are certain that no one could make a case for Jason being one of the people who were on any of the tapes, then I'm asking for membership in the JDI club!

[gbmy]

WRONG. You are selectively reading and then putting your own spin on the search warrant. Here's what the search warrant actually states and nowhere does it state LE can't confirm Jason's whereabouts with security video, it states that Jason hasn't confirmed it to LE.:

"Jason Young has provided no information as to his whereabouts between the hours of 0001 hours (12:01 am) and 07:40 hours (7:40 am) on November 3, 2006."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf


The security video captured Jason headed toward the exit at
11:58 pm, not 12:01 am. Obviously, there is also security video or a witness placing Jason at 12:01 am, somewhere else.
Yeah, but that is where I was going with the post I just pressed submit on. If Jason is seen on video after 12:01am, LE would know that. And, if it was at such a time that would have made a drive back scenario impossible, then that in and of itself would show he's innocent.......of course, there's always the hire a hitman possibility, but aside from that, he'd innocent of personally committing the murder.

[Barbara2]

Well, short of having a crystal clear video of the murder while it's happening, you're probably not going to have one and only 1 thing being 'the' piece of evidence of murder. But, as part of their total case, if they can't clearly prove he left the hotel, then that presents a very large problem for them.

Why? They don't have to prove that he left the hotel. They only need to show that it is possible that he left the hotel and that there is no evidence that he stayed there all night. IMO

[gbmy]

Why? They don't have to prove that he left the hotel. They only need to show that it is possible that he left the hotel and that there is no evidence that he stayed there all night. IMO
Well, they'd want to show as much proof as possible to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered his wife. If they can't prove he left the hotel (only that it's 'possible' as you say) then all other things being equal, they'd have a weaker case than if they had definitive proof he left (ie a video showing him walking out the door into the evening air).

[Barbara2]

Well, they'd want to show as much proof as possible to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he murdered his wife. If they can't prove he left the hotel (only that it's 'possible' as you say) then all other things being equal, they'd have a weaker case than if they had definitive proof he left (ie a video showing him walking out the door into the evening air).

If they have the possibility that he left the hotel, they have his footprint at the scene of the crime in blood in a shoe that he is known to own and that shoe is no longer in his possession but the video shows that shoe on his foot that night, I would say that's pretty solid evidence. IMO

[achristie]

Thank you! If the camera is above the door and records continuously, then depending on how it's angled, it would at a minimum show him very, very close to the door. Perhaps within arms reach. I think if it was physically impossible for the camera to show him walking out into the evening air, but it did show him say within arms reach, then that would be very convincing evidence that he left the hotel (to me anyway). It would also mean that they should have footage of him walking back in and would know what time that would have been. Does anyone see things differently in terms of what a continuously working video camera located right above an exit door taking continuous video (vs. periodic snapshots) would show? Obviously, the amount of time between snapshots would be relevant to how close the camera would catch him to the exit door.......But, if it's not continuous or there are lengthy gaps and JY actually did leave, then they'd never be able to prove it via video anyway.

They wouldn't be able to prove it via that camera, I agree. But what of the other cameras? Will we hear testimony as to the other cameras in place? Will we see continuous footage in the stairs or the elevator that leads back to his room? Maybe not continuous but time stamped to show NO ONE visible in that time frame? Evidence left up to the jury to decide? Food for thought.

MOO Aggie

[gbmy]

If they have the possibility that he left the hotel, they have his footprint at the scene of the crime in blood in a shoe that he is known to own and that shoe is no longer in his possession but the video shows that shoe on his foot that night, I would say that's pretty solid evidence. IMO
Yes, I agree with you.

[gbmy]

They wouldn't be able to prove it via that camera, I agree. But what of the other cameras? Will we hear testimony as to the other cameras in place? Will we see continuous footage in the stairs or the elevator that leads back to his room? Maybe not continuous but time stamped to show NO ONE visible in that time frame? Evidence left up to the jury to decide? Food for thought.

MOO Aggie

Right, agree. One of the warrants said there were 14 cameras in that hotel. Assuming all of them were 100% operational throughout the night, then they cover a known, finite area of square footage in the hotel. They know what room Jason checked into and they know where all of the exit doors are. Right now, all we know is that they have him on tape while checking in and they have him walking towards one of the exit doors at midnight. Used his key once. There was a rock in the door.

[reborn]

If they have the possibility that he left the hotel, they have his footprint at the scene of the crime in blood in a shoe that he is known to own and that shoe is no longer in his possession but the video shows that shoe on his foot that night, I would say that's pretty solid evidence. IMO


Where do you come up with this stuff? We haven't even been told the size of the shoe that has an out sole similar to Jason's. You can tell from that photo those are hush puppies shoes he is wearing in the hallway? LE waited 15 months to look for a pair of shoes . In the meantime Jason's family cleaned out the house. Do you think its possible those shoes had blood on them and the family threw them away? We have been told Jason's closet was gone through . Was the door left open and his things sprayed with blood? If I understand it correctly Michelle was laying just a few feet from Jason's closet. Did LE inventory that closet when they were there for 13 days? I think there are to many questions unanswered for you to make the statements you have made.

[5swab5]

(snip) In the meantime Jason's family cleaned out the house. Do you think its possible those shoes had blood on them and the family threw them away?

I certainly would hope that the Young family did not throw out, hide, plant or invent anything that might have to do with the murders, but I do not believe this to be the case. They started out on the defensive and have maintained that stance to this day.

Treating the investigators in your wife and child's murder investigation as the enemy is not the smartest route to take. When one decides to lawyer up and clam up, you just create a more skeptical but determined group of investigators. Being mute won't keep the truth from coming to light.

While it is true that Jason has been pretty quiet since the murders, he ran his mouth plenty before them. His attempt at establishing an alibi in VA at the Hampton are childishly immature and would be laughable if murder wasn't such serious business. MOO

Not to mention the Rock in the Lock. :lol:

[gbmy]

<snipped>
Treating the investigators in your wife and child's murder investigation as the enemy is not the smartest route to take. When one decides to lawyer up and clam up, you just create a more skeptical but determined group of investigators. Being mute won't keep the truth from coming to light.
<snipped>

Not to mention the Rock in the Lock. :lol:
In total agreement. And, my opinion is that this is part of the problem. To the degree Jason felt that LE was going on a major offensive push, 'right out of the gate' treating him as if he was the perp, then I can understand him perhaps seeing them as the enemy. I realize that you and many others may not see it that way cause if you have nothing to hide, then you'd know that that would be a temporary thing until they were convinced you were innocent. I got that.

You're right on that being mute won't keep the truth from coming to light. Soooo, if (I said if.....if, if, if, if) Jason is innocent, then by remaining silent he a) protects himself against the 'perceived' offensive against him (perception is reality....) leading to a wrongful conviction while b) taking solace that justice will eventually be served, albeit more slowly.

[5swab5]

In total agreement. And, my opinion is that this is part of the problem. To the degree Jason felt that LE was going on a major offensive push, 'right out of the gate' treating him as if he was the perp, then I can understand him perhaps seeing them as the enemy. I realize that you and many others may not see it that way cause if you have nothing to hide, then you'd know that that would be a temporary thing until they were convinced you were innocent. I got that.

You're right on that being mute won't keep the truth from coming to light. Soooo, if (I said if.....if, if, if, if) Jason is innocent, then by remaining silent he a) protects himself against the 'perceived' offensive against him (perception is reality....) leading to a wrongful conviction while b) taking solace that justice will eventually be served, albeit more slowly.

He is only delaying the inevitable. Time is on LE's side, new information is discovered and allegiances change through the years. He has already lost more than I can fathom. He is either as guilty as sin or a complete fool. An innocent person would not stand idly by and allow the things to happen in Civil Court that he has.

It's not just that he has been declared a slayer which effects any potential employment and his status in the community, but his entire family's reputation and "good name" have been irreparably damaged. It's not just that he chose to thumb his nose at Linda, Meredith and the Court by not showing up on the WDS's settlement day, he is for all intents and purposes destitute for life.

His signing the Custody Consent Order whether he crafted it or not, should have been the last straw for anyone with any lingering doubt. IMO

[Stellagant]

You can call it the 11:58 video all you want, but you will never change the FACT that the photo is time stamped 11-02-06...23:59:40. Let it go.

MOO

The FACT is the search warrant said Jason hasn't provided an account of his time from 12:01 am.

11:59:40 isn't 12:01 am. :rolleyes:

[Stellagant]

Actually, Clintwood is the MOST mountainous place on Jason's known itinerary that day. If he had cell phone reception there, the rest of his trip should have been just fine.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

That's your misconception. No wonder you're baffled why Jason hasn't been arrested. Here's Verizon Wireless' map that might enlighten you. fyi: Cell phone towers aren't all that easy to install in the mountain areas outside of cities.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController

[Stellagant]

Yeah, but that is where I was going with the post I just pressed submit on. If Jason is seen on video after 12:01am, LE would know that. And, if it was at such a time that would have made a drive back scenario impossible, then that in and of itself would show he's innocent.......of course, there's always the hire a hitman possibility, but aside from that, he'd innocent of personally committing the murder.

I think hitman is the most likely possibility but I also don't believe it was Jason who hired the hitman.

[Tia]

He is only delaying the inevitable. Time is on LE's side, new information is discovered and allegiances change through the years. He has already lost more than I can fathom. He is either as guilty as sin or a complete fool. An innocent person would not stand idly by and allow the things to happen in Civil Court that he has.

It's not just that he has been declared a slayer which effects any potential employment and his status in the community, but his entire family's reputation and "good name" have been irreparably damaged. It's not just that he chose to thumb his nose at Linda, Meredith and the Court by not showing up on the WDS's settlement day, he is for all intents and purposes destitute for life.

His signing the Custody Consent Order whether he crafted it or not, should have been the last straw for anyone with any lingering doubt. IMO


You are right, he is delaying the inevitable. Its over, he has nothing left. Maybe he will be happy living with his mom, visiting his child on occasion, not having a job, being the named slayer in his wife's murder........???


JMO

[Doorbell]

The FACT is the search warrant said Jason hasn't provided an account of his time from 12:01 am.

11:59:40 isn't 12:01 am. :rolleyes:

Why are you nitpicking over one minute and twenty seconds?

[Tia]

Why are you nitpicking over one minute and twenty seconds?

I was wondering that myself......

Two days of it too!!

Back on topic, I wonder if we will see anymore search warrants???

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes, the DA did get a confession from Ann Miller by way of Derril Willard to Gammon, but you are misrepresenting that case when you say the DA had all the evidence he needed in the first weeks.

The DA had nothing connecting Ann Miller to arsenic (means)

In the Young case, the DA obviously can't place Young at the murder scene (opportunity)

A DA must prove both "opportunity" and "means."

"He told me that he met Ann one day in a parking lot… Ann was crying. And that she admitted to him that while Eric was in the hospital she took a syringe that contained a substance and injected it into his IV," Gammon explains. "Derril asked her, 'Why did you do this?' And she said 'I just, I don’t know why I did it."

The D.A. could now put the arsenic that killed Eric Miller in Ann's hands. As for Derril Willard, the judge revealed that Derril told his attorney that he never tried to kill Eric.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/12/48hours/main4861528_page5.shtml


This is what I don't understand about that case!!
The DA went from "almost" seeking the DP to accepting a plea!!
A plea for only 25 years..
That is quite a big difference of putting someone on death row or having them be paroled in around 2030.
:shrug:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes Kat, and that remains the stubborn fact that simply can not be disputed. Jason Young has not been ruled guilty by a jury of 12. Jason Young has not even been arrested. He remains a free citizen.

To be fair, on the flip side, a civil judge believes he killed his wife and henced ruled that way. Although, from the perspective of a criminal offense, it was also made very clear that this ruling had absolutely no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

And the days continue to go by. Some say they already have 'enough' evidence and are waiting for a confession. Others say that they are 'oh so close' and an arrest is imminent. All just opinions. This was the same discussion had on this board last year. In the absence of new information, it'll be the same discussion in 2010, 2011, 2020, perhaps even beyond. And, whoever did this to Michelle will approach the end of their life here on earth.......And then what kind of justice will have been served by then?


Hi Gbmy........:seeya:
Yep, the days keep adding up!!
29 months, in fact, this Friday...
Never, would I have predicted this, when I first started following this murder , that this would be the case.
Wow.
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Jason hasn't given up physical custody of his child just yet. There is a transition period. Some children can't handle the transition and the court must revisit the decision and do what is in the child's best interest. I believe that will happen in this case.


I wonder how the visitation/transition is going, and I also hope that CY had a wonderful birthday..........

5 years old,!!

2 and a half years with Michelle , and now, 2 and a half years without her.
:(

Kat

[reborn]

I certainly would hope that the Young family did not throw out, hide, plant or invent anything that might have to do with the murders, but I do not believe this to be the case. They started out on the defensive and have maintained that stance to this day.

Treating the investigators in your wife and child's murder investigation as the enemy is not the smartest route to take. When one decides to lawyer up and clam up, you just create a more skeptical but determined group of investigators. Being mute won't keep the truth from coming to light.

While it is true that Jason has been pretty quiet since the murders, he ran his mouth plenty before them. His attempt at establishing an alibi in VA at the Hampton are childishly immature and would be laughable if murder wasn't such serious business. MOO

Not to mention the Rock in the Lock. :lol:


You don't honestly believe the family would keep the bloody linens and mattress do you? I think once LE released the house the family was free to do what ever with it. I think LE is lucky the tooth didn't get tossed. Yes if blood sprayed into the closet I think the family just got rid of the bloody things. I'm sure LE has photos.

Jason's attempt doesn't look to shabby to me. Two plus years and holding. Childish , immature? Not.

[reborn]

Why are you nitpicking over one minute and twenty seconds?


She isn't. She stated what is in the warrant. There is someone picking a nit but its not Stella. Does she remind you of anyone ?

[Doorbell]

She isn't. She stated what is in the warrant. There is someone picking a nit but its not Stella. Does she remind you of anyone ?

There is the time in the warrant, and there is the time on the picture. the difference between the two is one minute and twenty seconds. In the time frame of being able to make it to Raleigh and back by 7:40, I don't think one minute and twenty seconds is going to make a big difference.

IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

There is the time in the warrant, and there is the time on the picture. the difference between the two is one minute and twenty seconds. In the time frame of being able to make it to Raleigh and back by 7:40, I don't think one minute and twenty seconds is going to make a big difference.

IMO

Does this mean that the cops know where Jason was at 12:00? Does it mean they know where he was after the photo from the security video? It seems like they would not have mentioned it if they have reason to believe that Jay went back to his room. (JMO)

[Kat4Eagles]

Problem ? No, they have a murder to thoroughly investigate, and that is what they have recently affirmed they are doing. LE also has said they are close to an arrest, they have to be sure they have all the evidence they are going to be able to gather and then, Jason Young will be indicted. Didn't you read the latest articles stating these facts ?


There has to be a problem!!

Kat

[kingbuff]

There has to be a problem!!

Kat

Problem? Problems. Just from the little I know about the investigation, I would not want to be the DA bringing this case to a jury. Would you? Seems to me the police need someone to confess. Hence, no trial.

[Kat4Eagles]

Actually, those entries are 6 years old, and utterly irrelevant, IMO, as opposed to the following:

<snipped>

JMO

Ahh, come on, Card,:seeya: you have to admit the comments about the relationship between her and the Leezard have made for some great discussions here, and now that she has more rights to CY, it could get interesting between them at some point.

I am sure things will start out wonderful and all that, but, remember, there can only be one Momma Bear.

:biggrin:

Kat

[kingbuff]

Does this mean that the cops know where Jason was at 12:00? Does it mean they know where he was after the photo from the security video? It seems like they would not have mentioned it if they have reason to believe that Jay went back to his room. (JMO)

You can look at that time difference several ways. You could surmise the police have a photo of him reentering his room at that time. That seems to be more likely to have an exact time stamp than to say he left the parking lot at that exact time.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Ahh, come on, Card,:seeya: you have to admit her comments about the relationship between her and the Leezard have made for some great discussions here, and now that she has more rights to CY, it could get interesting between them at some point.

I am sure things will start out wonderful and all that, but, remember, there can only be one Momma Bear.

:biggrin:

Kat

Who the heck are Leezard and Momma Bear?:confused:

[kingbuff]

Who the heck are Leezard and Momma Bear?:confused:

The same: Linda.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

You can look at that time difference several ways. You could surmise the police have a photo of him reentering his room at that time. That seems to be more likely to have an exact time stamp than to say he left the parking lot at that exact time.

Then why didn't they say that? That would be a whole different story. They could have said that they didn't know where Jay was after he entered his room at 12:01. However, it would then seem that they did know where he was.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The same: Linda.

OK, thanks.

[Doorbell]

Does this mean that the cops know where Jason was at 12:00? Does it mean they know where he was after the photo from the security video? It seems like they would not have mentioned it if they have reason to believe that Jay went back to his room. (JMO)

As the warrant states, he has not verified his whereabouts from 12:01 to 7:40. The time stamp on the picture is 23:59:40. That leaves one minute and twenty seconds unaccounted for. I don't know upon what they are basing the 12:01 time.

[kingbuff]

You don't honestly believe the family would keep the bloody linens and mattress do you? I think once LE released the house the family was free to do what ever with it. I think LE is lucky the tooth didn't get tossed. Yes if blood sprayed into the closet I think the family just got rid of the bloody things. I'm sure LE has photos.

Jason's attempt doesn't look to shabby to me. Two plus years and holding. Childish , immature? Not.

I should think the police wish the tooth had been tossed. When the killers are arrested, the police might have to explain where it was found and whose mouth it came from.

[Doorbell]

The same: Linda.

Link, please.

[kingbuff]

Then why didn't they say that? That would be a whole different story. They could have said that they didn't know where Jay was after he entered his room at 12:01. However, it would then seem that they did know where he was.

My opinion: just their way of putting pressure on Jason. They want to grill him.

[Doorbell]

I should think the police wish the tooth had been tossed. When the killers are arrested, the police might have to explain where it was found and whose mouth it came from.

I should think it would not be difficult to ascertain whose mouth it came from.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yes, he was. From Hillsville to Clintwood to Brevard - all mountainous.

The Hillsville area is more like the foothills. If you have ever been to Pilot Mt. it is noteworthy because it is so high compared to everything else in the area. It's only about 2,400 feet. The real mountains in NC, Tenn, and Va get up past 5,000 feet (Mt. Mitchell is somewhere around 6,000 feet).

[Kat4Eagles]

Problem? Problems. Just from the little I know about the investigation, I would not want to be the DA bringing this case to a jury. Would you? Seems to me the police need someone to confess. Hence, no trial.

Hi KB.......:seeya:

Do you ever think that maybe they thought this case would be so easy, and, that it wasn't until later, much later, that something just wouldn't fit?

Take the blisters theory:
Why would Jason get blisters from shoes he would only have to wear a few minutes to make the extra set of prints with?
Not like he was going to run through town with them on.

Blisters would not form that fast for the amount of time he needed to wear them...and, why would be wear them any longer than he had to if their only purpose was to make another set of prints...?

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

My opinion: just their way of putting pressure on Jason. They want to grill him.

If they have him going back into that room then they need to cancel the barbecue.

[trucrime]

Ahh, come on, Card,:seeya: you have to admit the comments about the relationship between her and the Leezard have made for some great discussions here, and now that she has more rights to CY, it could get interesting between them at some point.

I am sure things will start out wonderful and all that, but, remember, there can only be one Momma Bear.

:biggrin:

Kat

Why are you calling people by nick-names? I think if the JDI's called him anything other than Jason or Slayer, you'd probably be reporting the post. Are you really referencing Linda Fisher, because if so that's totally inappropriate. IMO.

[trucrime]

Link, please.

Yeah good luck with that request.

[kingbuff]

Hi KB.......:seeya:

Do you ever think that maybe they thought this case would be so easy, and, that it wasn't until later, much later, that something just wouldn't fit?

Take the blisters theory:
Why would Jason get blisters from shoes he would only have to wear a few minutes to make the extra set of prints with?
Not like he was going to run through town with them on.

Blisters would not form that fast for the amount of time he needed to wear them...and, why would be wear them any longer than he had to if their only purpose was to make another set of prints...?

Kat

I agree: The police were really reaching for the blisters theory. They were thorough, though, in consulting an expert on blisters. I have to wonder if that expert told them more about blisters, info the cops didn't want to include in the SW. Blisters explains the size 10 print but I believe the police know of theories that explain the blisters but not the size 10.

[Kat4Eagles]

There's really no difference in these 2 statements unless you start parsing words and forcing the interpretation you want.


I finally got the point you were making about.......... if the killer would really pull into the driveway?
Totally ::swooshed:: me at first.!!

But, you are right, the chances of being seen by anyone, coming in or leaving Enchanted Oaks, when he was supposed to be miles away, or the chance of Mr. G barking and waking up Michelle?

Big chance !!

And, that is another thing, was Michelle awake or sleeping?
Sometimes, I think she may have just thought she was going to rest a little and then get up, and turn the lights off, and make sure the doors were locked, and all that, but then she fell asleep.

That may be something we never know, only that she was awake during the attack and tried to fight back.

:(
Kat

[Doorbell]

Yeah good luck with that request.

It's just that I've heard people state that the nickname refers to LF, but I have never seen confirmation of that.

[Kat4Eagles]

If Jason is guilty, then you may be right. But, this just opens up the 'silence suggests guilt' discussion. And, for me, it takes more than 'suggestion' to channel my beliefs down a path where I'd accuse a free man with no criminal record of murder. Especially when the only way for that to be possible is if they could prove he left the hotel. Some may think they can and are just 'withholding' that information. But, that is not a fact. Given this, I have 2 questions for you (ie your opinion).

1. Why did LE choose to make it public that they had video of Jason walking towards the hotel exit and that there was a rock in the door?
2. Do you think they have additional information the actually proves he walked out of the hotel exit to the outdoors at midnight or round about that time? If so, then why make #1 public and not this?


Excellent point, and you have to wonder why..........

Kat

[BeachMeAgain]

As the warrant states, he has not verified his whereabouts from 12:01 to 7:40. The time stamp on the picture is 23:59:40. That leaves one minute and twenty seconds unaccounted for. I don't know upon what they are basing the 12:01 time.

I find this time discussion interesting. LE states that they don't know his whereabouts from 12:01 to 7:40 but that leaves one minute twenty seconds before and nine minutes after (since his first call was to MM at 7:49). Does this mean they likely have time stamps at 12:01 and 7:40? It would not be from phone records so I wonder what LE does have to give different times from the released video still time and the phone records time.

[Kat4Eagles]

I am following the case. The violent hours long fights sounds like two people involved . We have one admitted relationship of two sexual encounters and you have taken that to numerous. I believe the snipped part of an email said I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning. You have chosen to embellish and bring Cassie into it. Cassie peed on the floor and there wasn't any air . The electric was off. What I haven't been able to understand about those messages he had Cassie why was he talking about picking her up? Thats why I think LE played a little game with those messages. If I understand correctly the panties in the bed was in the condo . That was a long time before Michelle was killed.

Wow, you caught something I bet a lot of us missed. I know, I did!!
The last thing Jason tells Michelle is that he is going to the pool with CY, but, then somehow later CY needs to be picked up !
So, where was she, who was she with, and how did she get there?
Kat

ETA:
And, was that all in the same day for sure?

[Kat4Eagles]

I find this time discussion interesting. LE states that they don't know his whereabouts from 12:01 to 7:40 but that leaves one minute twenty seconds before and nine minutes after (since his first call was to MM at 7:49). Does this mean they likely have time stamps at 12:01 and 7:40? It would not be from phone records so I wonder what LE does have to give different times from the released video still time and the phone records time.

Unless they were just using appoximate times, but that is a good point.

I think Jason had to be , absolutely had to be, in Hillsville at 7:10ish, to get to Wytheville by 7:40 or so, as the call to MM places him in that vicinity.

Good thinking though!! And, Stella, too, for pointing out the difference.

Maybe at 12:01am, Jason ordered a wake up call from his room, after being seen on the 11:59 pm video.


Kat

[Stellagant]

You can look at that time difference several ways. You could surmise the police have a photo of him reentering his room at that time. That seems to be more likely to have an exact time stamp than to say he left the parking lot at that exact time.

It's significant because LE knows where Jason was over a minute after he was seen headed toward the exit. A minute and twenty seconds was more than enough time to completely exit the building. If he had exited and returned to Raleigh, he wouldn't still be inside the hotel a minute and twenty seconds later. Therefore, if he exited the building, it was only for a minute.

[Leanne Weich]

I wonder if Jason turned his phone off at 12.01 and on at 7.40 and they were able to confirm he was in a certain place at those times. He could have turned it on at 7.40 and not phoned MM until 7.49 because he was checking messages or could have been held up for a few minutes. JMHO.

[Kat4Eagles]

Jason, the grieving father, experienced the loss of not only his unborn son Rylan, but the unborn son his wife was carrying when she was slammed into the dashboard of the car when it careened into the river ... and how many people have come forward to describe not only Jason's grief over the loss of the first son's premature termination, but the second? In fact, no one has come forward to describe Jason's grief over the loss of his twosons ... as he has no grief. It's been 29 months since he murdered his youngest unborn son, and not one person; including Jason, has expressed any grief regarding the termination of the lives of his two sons. There is evidence that Jason had a hand in terminating the lives of two future sons, and couldn't care less.

There's no equity in Jason and Michelle Young's estate because they were living month to month, and were stretched beyond their means, especially with Jason out of work and taking vacations with his mom and sisters. Paying for girlfriends, even if they slept in Michelle's bedroom, while married added to the financial strain on the marriage.

If none of the witnesses said they witnessed violence, who said that Jason punched hole in the wall? who said the arguments were loud, who, in their right mind, claims that men who claim they want to murder their wives are not violent?


Unless you have a link to the car accident being reclassed as a murder attempt.......:no:

Kat

[5swab5]

You don't honestly believe the family would keep the bloody linens and mattress do you? I think once LE released the house the family was free to do what ever with it. I think LE is lucky the tooth didn't get tossed. Yes if blood sprayed into the closet I think the family just got rid of the bloody things. I'm sure LE has photos. (snipped)

No, I don't think they would keep bloody linens and the mattress, but when a family goes in to clean up instead of hiring a cleaning crew that is trained in handling hazardous materials, I get an uneasy feeling.

When a family goes to such a crime scene and takes pictures of the blood and gore, a little light bulb goes off in my head.

When a family takes friends and neighbors to view the horrendous scene, warning bells start ringing.

When a family suddenly claims a part of a tooth was overlooked by the investigators after they had spent the better part of two weeks in the house, I remember that Cassidy's tooth box was reported missing by Jason's mother.

When a family hits message boards all over the Internet making excuses for Jason, long before there has been so much as a whimper out of the WCSD, I see a pattern developing.

When SWs are released looking in Brevard for things that Pat Young reported missing from the Birchleaf house, I sit up and take notice.

When Pat Young says that $500.00 in cash, in a new wallet was taken from Jason's closet, I feel like I have been lied to.

When Pat Young tells LE that Jason neither washed, changed or discarded any clothing while at her home, yet the dark colored long sleeve pullover garment with a lighter colored thin stripe bisecting the chest area is not among the items in Jason's vehicle, sirens start blaring.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows himself to be declared a slayer, I feel like some people think the rest of the world is stupid.

When a family sits idly by while their son cedes PRIMARY physical custody of their granddaughter, bells and whistles deafen me. AND When the gist of that agreement centers on ceasing discovery and keeping Cassidy away from the media, I KNOW that the Custody Agreement is not about Cassidy.

When a family sits idly by while their son allows a multimillion dollar judgment to be entered against him, I know someone is trying to play me for a fool. MOO

[5swab5]

Problem? Problems. Just from the little I know about the investigation, I would not want to be the DA bringing this case to a jury. Would you? Seems to me the police need someone to confess. Hence, no trial.

I'm glad it is not within your power to do anything about this case either. There most certainly will be a trial and the one leading the prosecution for the State will actually care about Justice for Michelle and Rylan. MOO

[Stellagant]

Hi KB.......:seeya:

Do you ever think that maybe they thought this case would be so easy, and, that it wasn't until later, much later, that something just wouldn't fit?

Take the blisters theory:
Why would Jason get blisters from shoes he would only have to wear a few minutes to make the extra set of prints with?
Not like he was going to run through town with them on.

Blisters would not form that fast for the amount of time he needed to wear them...and, why would be wear them any longer than he had to if their only purpose was to make another set of prints...?

Kat

It is impossible to force the bones of a foot into lace-up athletic shoes two sizes too small to begin with. It is the most inane theory in this case to suppose Jason would leave a bloody footprint with one shoe, change shoes and then leave yet another bloody footprint on the same pillowcase and then change a third time. A jury would have to be comprised of all imbeciles to agree to that theory.

I think it is more likely the killer wore shoes several sizes larger than her feet.

[5swab5]

My opinion: just their way of putting pressure on Jason. They want to grill him.

He needs to be grilled by LE, before the devil toasts him on one side, sticks a trident in him and then flips him over for the char-broiling. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

I conceded at the time that SW was made public that proving Jason left the hotel is problematic. I don't believe LE has a video of Jason walking through that door, simply because of the location of the camera.

And yes, I've left my door ajar with the security bar to leave my room briefly, BUT never when the door would be out of my sight and only when loading/unloading my luggage. A key card is not so difficult to carry or use.

As for the rock, no, LE can't prove Jason put it there, but it's highly coincidental that a rock would be found in the door on that particular night, particularly if hotel management can state they didn't typically find rocks in the doors. But the absence of a video of Jason returning through that door is irrelevant, because the rock was removed.

Like much of the CE in this case, each aspect can be refuted. But taken as a whole, it's overwhelming.

JMO

Hi Card.:seeya:

Something else I have never seen mentioned, is the amount of people who were staying over there that nite, if it was crowded, etc.

Let's see a Thurs nite ,Hampton Inn, beginning of Nov, hard to say what was going on.........any conferences, etc?

I would love to see the occupancy for that nite :wink:, cause if it was slow, Jason may have had much of the floor to himself, or, if it was

crowded, and because it was so late, and he wanted to go down to the lobby at midnite ,maybe, he didn't shut his door,so, as not to disturb anyone.
Those doors can be loud when you are trying to zzzzzzzzzzz.

Kat

[Stellagant]

Unless they were just using appoximate times, but that is a good point.

I think Jason had to be , absolutely had to be, in Hillsville at 7:10ish, to get to Wytheville by 7:40 or so, as the call to MM places him in that vicinity.

Good thinking though!! And, Stella, too, for pointing out the difference.

Maybe at 12:01am, Jason ordered a wake up call from his room, after being seen on the 11:59 pm video.


Kat

I think you're probably right, Kat and he ordered a wake-up call.

[Cardinal]

That's your misconception. No wonder you're baffled why Jason hasn't been arrested. Here's Verizon Wireless' map that might enlighten you. fyi: Cell phone towers aren't all that easy to install in the mountain areas outside of cities.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController

Nice map. Lots of pink, i.e., lots of coverage, in NC, VA and TN along the route Jason is known to have driven. Thanks for supporting my point.

[Stellagant]

Nice map. Lots of pink, i.e., lots of coverage, in NC, VA and TN along the route Jason is known to have driven. Thanks for supporting my point.

More white than pink along his route, which supports my point that cell reception was spotty.

The fact that Jason hasn't been arrested also supports my point. :rolleyes:

[Cardinal]

Hi Card.:seeya:

Something else I have never seen mentioned, is the amount of people who were staying over there that nite, if it was crowded, etc.

Let's see a Thurs nite ,Hampton Inn, beginning of Nov, hard to say what was going on.........any conferences, etc?

I would love to see the occupancy for that nite :wink:, cause if it was slow, Jason may have had much of the floor to himself, or, if it was

crowded, and because it was so late, and he wanted to go down to the lobby at midnite ,maybe, he didn't shut his door,so, as not to disturb anyone.
Those doors can be loud when you are trying to zzzzzzzzzzz.

Kat

Hi, Kat.

So you think there's evidence to support Jason being the considerate type? :)

I can't imagine a hotel in Hillsville VA would be that crowded on a Thursday night. In fact, I've wondered why Jason was put on the 3rd floor in a hotel that I don't think would have been heavily booked at the time. Maybe he requested the 3rd floor because it was empty, and no one could see his comings and goings?

[Cardinal]

More white than pink along his route, which supports my point that cell reception was spotty.

The fact that Jason hasn't been arrested also supports my point. :rolleyes:

You must be looking at a different map than the one you linked. And the fact that Jason hasn't been arrested is irrelevant to your point, IMO.

[Stellagant]

Hi, Kat.

So you think there's evidence to support Jason being the considerate type? :)

I can't imagine a hotel in Hillsville VA would be that crowded on a Thursday night. In fact, I've wondered why Jason was put on the 3rd floor in a hotel that I don't think would have been heavily booked at the time. Maybe he requested the 3rd floor because it was empty, and no one could see his comings and goings?

How would Jason know the occupancy of the hotel? He wouldn't.

You really are reaching in your frustrated attempts to get this guy conficted in the court of public opinion.

[Cardinal]

How would Jason know the occupancy of the hotel? He wouldn't.

You really are reaching in your frustrated attempts to get this guy conficted in the court of public opinion.

It's not my job to get anyone conficted [sic]. I'm just talking about the case.

And Jason would know the occupancy if he asked for a quiet room when he checked in.

[Stellagant]

You must be looking at a different map than the one you linked. And the fact that Jason hasn't been arrested is irrelevant to your point, IMO.

I drilled down in the link to a more specific map. And the fact that Jason hasn't been arrested is very relevant to the fact his MIL left him two messages he didn't answer plus he made and received numerous other calls. None of it is evidence because he was driving in an area with sporadic cell phone coverage.

[5swab5]

(snipped)Maybe he requested the 3rd floor because it was empty, and no one could see his comings and goings?


Excellent point! Too bad about those cameras.

Gonna be awful hard to get to the lobby, front door or side doors from a 3rd floor room without getting caught on tape. All the more reason NOT to believe that he left his door propped open either. No juror in their right mind will buy that. MOO

[Stellagant]

It's not my job to get anyone conficted [sic]. I'm just talking about the case.

And Jason would know the occupancy if he asked for a quiet room when he checked in.

Thanks for pointing out the typo. I'll continue to overlook your errors.

Since when does a hotel tell a guest the occupancy? Either a room is available or it isn't. All rooms are supposed to be quiet.

Jason had no idea what rooms were considered "quiet" rooms nor is there any evidence he asked for a quiet room.

If you want to talk about the case, how about sticking to the facts rather than inventing your own version?

[Cardinal]

I drilled down in the link to a more specific map. And the fact that Jason hasn't been arrested is very relevant to the fact his MIL left him two messages he didn't answer plus he made and received numerous other calls. None of it is evidence because he was driving in an area with sporadic cell phone coverage.

I drilled down, too. The roads Jason drove are surrounded by pink.

[Cardinal]

Thanks for pointing out the typo. I'll continue to overlook your errors.

Since when does a hotel tell a guest the occupancy? Either a room is available or it isn't. All rooms are supposed to be quiet.

Jason had no idea what rooms were considered "quiet" rooms nor is there any evidence he asked for a quiet room.

If you want to talk about the case, how about sticking to the facts rather than inventing your own version?

Well, I can see you're in a lovely mood tonight, and I have more productive ways to spend my time.

Goodnight.

[5swab5]

I drilled down in the link to a more specific map. And the fact that Jason hasn't been arrested is very relevant to the fact his MIL left him two messages he didn't answer plus he made and received numerous other calls. None of it is evidence because he was driving in an area with sporadic cell phone coverage.

You are barking up the wrong tree. From 7:40AM until 2:52PM there is action on Jason's phone 38 times and this is only the ones that we know about. I would dearly love to be able to get through that many times in a week. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

Well, I can see you're in a lovely mood tonight, and I have more productive ways to spend my time.

Goodnight.

If I can jump in and play referee here, where has it ever been said for sure, what room or floor Jason stayed in/on?

And, all one would have to do is check the parking lot before registering, unless guests arrived by skateboards.

:biggrin:

Kat

[Doorbell]

I find this time discussion interesting. LE states that they don't know his whereabouts from 12:01 to 7:40 but that leaves one minute twenty seconds before and nine minutes after (since his first call was to MM at 7:49). Does this mean they likely have time stamps at 12:01 and 7:40? It would not be from phone records so I wonder what LE does have to give different times from the released video still time and the phone records time.

The warrant states that the first call was made at 7:40, I think.

[jerry50]

Exactly! Because when he was in Raleigh earning his new title of slayer, his phone was cut off.

Last ping November 2nd...11:42PM
First ping November 3rd...7:40AM

MOO

I would love to see JY's phone and text records for the previous months leading up to the murder. It would really surprise me that Nov 2 was the only night where JY did not receive or make any calls or texts. Wasn't it over 900 times that JY and MM contacted each other in Oct? It's odd that there were no pings because the phone was turned off. If there was an emergency at home his cell would be the easiest way to reach him. It looks like he wasn't worried about anything happening to Michelle or Cassidy or even any member of his family, but he was so worried that she might see a piece of paper that he called a third party to go to the house and remove it.

[tiny paw-prints]

No, I don't think they would keep bloody linens and the mattress, but when a family goes in to clean up instead of hiring a cleaning crew that is trained in handling hazardous materials, I get an uneasy feeling.

(respectfully snipped)

When a family sits idly by while their son allows a multimillion dollar judgment to be entered against him, I know someone is trying to play me for a fool. MOO

Very well stated-excellent post you made earlier today!

As always, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Kat4Eagles]

Excellent point! Too bad about those cameras.

Gonna be awful hard to get to the lobby, front door or side doors from a 3rd floor room without getting caught on tape. All the more reason NOT to believe that he left his door propped open either. No juror in their right mind will buy that. MOO



But, that is the best thing that could have happened to Jason, if anyone is trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, imo.

What if he hadn't been caught on tape at all?

What if he had last been seen around 10:PM at the latest, and not midnite?

Here he is shown 2x!
Once checking in close to 11:pm and then again an hour later.

You know, I know, we have argued the timeline inside and out, we have scrunched miles, and do~ability vs. impossiblity.

Why didn't Jason leave right after his initial check in?
And, you can't say it was because he wanted to be seen an hour later wearing a different shirt......

We don't even know how aware he was of the cameras, or if he even was at all.

Why did a man that was supposed to have a pre~med plan to kill his wife, stay an extra hour at the Hampton?

When timing was everything.
When everything had to go just perfect.

When if just one thing,whether it is traffic, construction, car trouble, a traffic violation, anything goes wrong, he may need that hour.

I don't get it.
:shrug:

Kat

[Tia]

Very well stated-excellent post you made earlier today!

As always, thank you for sharing your thoughts.


Hi Tiny!

Swabby has JY nailed, IMO.

:thumbup:

[reborn]

But, that is the best thing that could have happened to Jason, if anyone is trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, imo.

What if he hadn't been caught on tape at all?

What if he had last been seen around 10:PM at the latest, and not midnite?

Here he is shown 2x!
Once checking in close to 11:pm and then again an hour later.

You know, I know, we have argued the timeline inside and out, we have scrunched miles, and do~ability vs. impossiblity.

Why didn't Jason leave right after his initial check in?
And, you can't say it was because he wanted to be seen an hour later wearing a different shirt......

We don't even know how aware he was of the cameras, or if he even was at all.

Why did a man that was supposed to have a pre~med plan to kill his wife, stay an extra hour at the Hampton?

When timing was everything.
When everything had to go just perfect.

When if just one thing,whether it is traffic, construction, car trouble, a traffic violation, anything goes wrong, he may need that hour.

I don't get it.
:shrug:

Kat

I don't know if his phone was turned off or not. But why are some making a big deal if it was. He was sleeping within arms reach of a phone. His wife knew where he was and I would bet he also told his mother where he was. I bet he even gave both of them the phone number and his room number. Wonder if LE found those written down in the house. We might find out if Spivey decides that one of those need to know things.

[janesdeaan]

Ahh, come on, Card,:seeya: you have to admit the comments about the relationship between her and the Leezard have made for some great discussions here, and now that she has more rights to CY, it could get interesting between them at some point.

I am sure things will start out wonderful and all that, but, remember, there can only be one Momma Bear.

:biggrin:

Kat


Sorry to wake you from your dream (?) but the reference to "the leezard" I believe means JUNE FISHER, Meredith and Michelle's step-mom. You know the one neither cared much for, their dad's new wife ? Ya, she would be the ONLY one we've ever heard that Michelle and Meredith didn't like, why would you jump to the conclusion it meant Linda Fisher ? And really enjoying that myth too it seems.

[janesdeaan]

Who the heck are Leezard and Momma Bear?:confused:

"The Leezard" I believe is Alan Fisher's second wife, Michelle and Meredith's stepmom. Momma Bear ? Sounds like maybe thats what that poster calls her own mother ? Not sure, tho...:shrug:

[Tia]

I don't know if his phone was turned off or not. But why are some making a big deal if it was. He was sleeping within arms reach of a phone. His wife knew where he was and I would bet he also told his mother where he was. I bet he even gave both of them the phone number and his room number. Wonder if LE found those written down in the house. We might find out if Spivey decides that one of those need to know things.

Its a huge deal because, with a pregnant wife at home, you'd think he'd leave it on all night. Most people I know don't even bother with hotel phones or "wake up" calls since just about everyone that carries a cell knows its equiped with an alarm clock and that they can be reached by anyone anywhere.

Why would he tell his mother his room number? He was a grown,
married man.

[reborn]

"The Leezard" I believe is Alan Fisher's second wife, Michelle and Meredith's stepmom. Momma Bear ? Sounds like maybe thats what that poster calls her own mother ? Not sure, tho...:shrug:


You are very wrong. Meredith never lived with her dad and June actually she was never in their home. At no time did Alan and June live on Long Island. I'm afraid Miss Meredith was talking about her Mama.

[Stellagant]

You are barking up the wrong tree. From 7:40AM until 2:52PM there is action on Jason's phone 38 times and this is only the ones that we know about. I would dearly love to be able to get through that many times in a week. MOO

That isn't an excessive number of calls for someone who has an active life. One thing Jason made clear in the search warrant is he doesn't sit on Internet forums all day.

:rolleyes:

[Stellagant]

If I can jump in and play referee here, where has it ever been said for sure, what room or floor Jason stayed in/on?

And, all one would have to do is check the parking lot before registering, unless guests arrived by skateboards.

:biggrin:

Kat

It's never been said what room or floor Jason stayed in/on.

[Stellagant]

You are very wrong. Meredith never lived with her dad and June actually she was never in their home. At no time did Alan and June live on Long Island. I'm afraid Miss Meredith was talking about her Mama.

I think you are correct and Meredith never lived with June Fisher.

[reborn]

I think you are correct and Meredith never lived with June Fisher.
Alan Fisher made the comment about the bad blood between June Fisher and Michelle. I believe those girls were made to believe June Fisher was the problem with Linda's and Alan's marriage.

[5swab5]

That isn't an excessive number of calls for someone who has an active life. One thing Jason made clear in the search warrant is he doesn't sit on Internet forums all day.

:rolleyes:

One thing Jason made clear? That's a hoot. Jason has "made nothing clear", except he would rather someone besides himself raise Cassidy.

I don't think 28 calls in 7 hours to a man's momma suggests an active life, suggests to me that he is a mamma's boy...oops guess that is right... since he is now living with her.

I will acknowledge that the 980 phone contacts in one month to Michelle Money including 50 on the day before Michelle and Rylan are slaughtered, suggests an "active" life...of some sort.

How could he have time to be on the internet? He was NEVER off the phone, well except for those eight hours when his phone didn't ping...during which time Michelle and Rylan were being pulverized. MOO

[trucrime]

One thing Jason made clear? That's a hoot. Jason has "made nothing clear", except he would rather someone besides himself raise Cassidy.

I don't think 28 calls in 7 hours to a man's momma suggests an active life, suggests to me that he is a mamma's boy...oops guess that is right... since he is now living with her.

I will acknowledge that the 980 phone contacts in one month to Michelle Money including 50 on the day before Michelle and Rylan are slaughtered, suggests an "active" life...of some sort.

How could he have time to be on the internet? He was NEVER off the phone, well except for those eight hours when his phone didn't ping...during which time Michelle and Rylan were being pulverized. MOO


Yeah I fail to see what Jason's made clear, since he refuses to talk to LE. Of course, it was very clear he was willing to give up his daughter's primary care to his fomer sister-in-law without a fight.

My guess is at times he juggled the internet on the computer & his cell phone at the same time (text/call), for instance when he'd be at his home office. Or if he used a laptop while on business. But gee, no pings or anything for eight or so hours the night Michelle & Rylan were brutally murdered. IMO.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

http://www.transylvaniatimes.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=2919&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2538&hn=transylvaniatimes&he=.com

[Kat4Eagles]

http://www.transylvaniatimes.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=2919&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2538&hn=transylvaniatimes&he=.com

They sure are behind on stuff !!
Are they reporting this as "news"..?
:rolleyes:
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

They sure are behind on stuff !!
Are they reporting this as "news"..?
:rolleyes:
Kat

They mean well. After all, Brevard is not a big city with a daily news paper. Plus, we have had a little issue between our Police Chief and the City Manager. That was our big news for quite a while.

[reborn]

They mean well. After all, Brevard is not a big city with a daily news paper. Plus, we have had a little issue between our Police Chief and the City Manager. That was our big news for quite a while.

I bet there wasn't two people in town that didn't already know this. Do they report floods after the water goes down? LOL

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I bet there wasn't two people in town that didn't already know this. Do they report floods after the water goes down? LOL

The New York Times prints all the news that is fit to print. The Transylvania Times prints all the news that was fit to print.

Hey, it's a small town newspaper and they do a good job with the local news.

[5swab5]

The New York Times prints all the news that is fit to print. The Transylvania Times prints all the news that was fit to print.

Hey, it's a small town newspaper and they do a good job with the local news.

The TTimes has an advantage over the NYTimes. In small towns people read every word that they do print.:thumbsup:


I hope this discourages people from paying him "off the books":

The recent judgment may not be collected, according to Fisher’s lawyer Jack Michaels. It only requires Young to begin payment if he starts producing income, reported The News and Observer.MOO

[achristie]

The New York Times prints all the news that is fit to print. The Transylvania Times prints all the news that was fit to print.

Hey, it's a small town newspaper and they do a good job with the local news.


:laugh: As a local, do you have anything to add in "real" time?

TIA Aggie

[reborn]

The TTimes has an advantage over the NYTimes. In small towns people read every word that they do print.:thumbsup:


I hope this discourages people from paying him "off the books":

The recent judgment may not be collected, according to Fisher’s lawyer Jack Michaels. It only requires Young to begin payment if he starts producing income, reported The News and Observer.MOO


I bet he got all kinds of calls. Hey Jason I've got this job you can do we won't let the Fisher women know about it. This article was better than any ad he could have ran. Men tend to stick together.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I bet he got all kinds of calls. Hey Jason I've got this job you can do we won't let the Fisher women know about it. This article was better than any ad he could have ran. Men tend to stick together.

Not when those men have wives who keep up with this case.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

:laugh: As a local, do you have anything to add in "real" time?

TIA Aggie

YES...............It's a beautiful day for a walk. And I doubt I will run into Jay. Hardly anyone ever sees him out and about. Most "news" comes from the wives of his "friends".

[Kat4Eagles]

The New York Times prints all the news that is fit to print. The Transylvania Times prints all the news that was fit to print.

Hey, it's a small town newspaper and they do a good job with the local news.


Just messing with you.
I get the picture.,

I bet it was hard to choose which big story to cover, though, the squirrel or this one.
:biggrin:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

YES...............It's a beautiful day for a walk. And I doubt I will run into Jay. Hardly anyone ever sees him out and about. Most "news" comes from the wives of his "friends".

I am sure he just helped his daughter celebrate her 5th birthday, and
it is bball time, Final Four!!
NC State , right?
I would imagine that is what he is concerned about.
Kat

[achristie]

YES...............It's a beautiful day for a walk. And I doubt I will run into Jay. Hardly anyone ever sees him out and about. Most "news" comes from the wives of his "friends".

How depressing, eh? Gorgeous day , yet he is never seen out and about? Not that I blame him. He must feel cornered. Not at all the feeling he envisioned so many months after his wife's demise. It just is not dying down, is it?

MOO Aggie

[5swab5]

Not when those men have wives who keep up with this case.

:lol:

I agree, not all men are willing to risk having to move back in with their mothers. MOO

[reborn]

Not when those men have wives who keep up with this case.


Are you saying Brevard is a town where the wives wear the britches? LOL

[reborn]

How depressing, eh? Gorgeous day , yet he is never seen out and about? Not that I blame him. He must feel cornered. Not at all the feeling he envisioned so many months after his wife's demise. It just is not dying down, is it?

MOO Aggie

Do you blame him ? Remember the poster from Raleigh that was following him around yelling? If I remember correctly jason was coming from church.

[jerry50]

I bet he got all kinds of calls. Hey Jason I've got this job you can do we won't let the Fisher women know about it. This article was better than any ad he could have ran. Men tend to stick together.

If JY gets paid under the table it will be a illegal for both him and his "employer". Men may stick together but moral ones will not help him escape his legal debt to the Fisher's.

Remember OJ? There were lots of people who let the Goldman's know when OJ was spending money that was coming somewhere else than his pension. If JY is seen driving a new car there will be questions on how he paid for it. He may as well be in jail. He really isn't free.

[Cardinal]

Do you blame him ? Remember the poster from Raleigh that was following him around yelling? If I remember correctly jason was coming from church.

No, I don't remember. Do you have a link to this?

[Kat4Eagles]

I bet there wasn't two people in town that didn't already know this. Do they report floods after the water goes down? LOL


No, but I bet they had to have a town hall meeting to decide what news makes the front page.....

You got Aunt Bertha getting ready to start canning her peaches, and then there is cousin Harold who made it to the big city and back, all by himself, and there seems to be a pesky squirrel situation.

Then there is that Young boy falling plumb to his knees, I heard, what in tarnation , that is one busy town.

The place must get all decked out when those big east coast city fellows come calling!!

:)
Kat

[Tia]

If JY gets paid under the table it will be a illegal for both him and his "employer". Men may stick together but moral ones will not help him escape his legal debt to the Fisher's.

Remember OJ? There were lots of people who let the Goldman's know when OJ was spending money that was coming somewhere else than his pension. If JY is seen driving a new car there will be questions on how he paid for it. He may as well be in jail. He really isn't free.

Oh, I so agree. He isn't free at all. He created his own jail cell with his refusal to speak to LE and his refusal to defend himself in both the civil and custody suits.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

<snipped>
He really isn't free.

Umm, yeah, he is.
Free to travel, free to see the country, free to leave the country, free to do pretty much whatever he wants........and until and unless something happens to change that, Jason Young remains free.
Kat

[gbmy]

<snipped>
Why didn't Jason leave right after his initial check in?

Why did a man that was supposed to have a pre~med plan to kill his wife, stay an extra hour at the Hampton?
<snipped>

Kat
This is an excellent question. Does anyone have a rationale answer?

[achristie]

Oh, I so agree. He isn't free at all. He created his own jail cell with his refusal to speak to LE and his refusal to defend himself in both the civil and custody suits.

JMO

I think you may be right, Tia. How free is he? One would surmise he's free to go as he pleases, yet he has no job, so he has no money, right? How much freedom and privacy does a 30 something guy have when he lives with his mother? Maybe his mother gives him a wide berth? Lest we forget, he has a young child he is responsible for. Of course , he does get a break when she visits with his dead wife's family. Only a few more months when he will have a longer time when he's not totally responsible for her care. Will he then move to a place of his own? Somehow, I don't think this is the freedom he longed for and felt justified in attaining.

MOO Aggie

[jerry50]

This is an excellent question. Does anyone have a rationale answer?

This may have been part of his strategy. Remember Alan Fisher saying how smart he was? To be seen an hour after arriving would supply part of an alibi that he was at the hotel all night and did not have time to return home and commit the murder.

The murder was not set in stone for that night. If he had driven back to Raleigh and got a ticket or got there too late all he had to do was abort his plans.

For all we know that might not have been his first attempt at murder. He may have run this plan before and had problems and did not go through with his plan.

[Tia]

I think you may be right, Tia. How free is he? One would surmise he's free to go as he pleases, yet he has no job, so he has no money, right? How much freedom and privacy does a 30 something guy have when he lives with his mother? Maybe his mother gives him a wide berth? Lest we forget, he has a young child he is responsible for. Of course , he does get a break when she visits with his dead wife's family. Only a few more months when he will have a longer time when he's not totally responsible for her care. Will he then move to a place of his own? Somehow, I don't think this is the freedom he longed for and felt justified in attaining.

MOO Aggie

Wouldn't he have to get a job and earn money to get a place of his own? And you are right, how can he travel unless he has money???
IMO, he may as well be in jail.

Why would an "innocent" man want to live like this???
JMO

[jerry50]

Umm, yeah, he is.
Free to travel, free to see the country, free to leave the country, free to do pretty much whatever he wants........and until and unless something happens to change that, Jason Young remains free.
Kat

Where is he getting the money to do all of this traveling?

He's not free to see his daughter any time he wants.

He's not free to apply for a job while he is the primary suspect in the high profile bludgeoning death of his wife and unborn son? Who's going to hire him in this economy where job losses are high and salesmen are a dime a dozen?

[Tia]

Where is he getting the money to do all of this traveling?

He's not free to see his daughter any time he wants.

He's not free to apply for a job while he is the primary suspect in the high profile bludgeoning death of his wife and unborn son? Who's going to hire him in this economy where job losses are high and salesmen are a dime a dozen?

Jason Young is far from a free man!! I think he will wind up living with his mom until she passes, then maybe she will give him her house, but wouldn't the Fisher's get that too? Seems that Jason will never be able to have any assests again, never have a job, never own a home, etc...

Again, why would an innocent man want to live this way???

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Where is he getting the money to do all of this traveling?

He's not free to see his daughter any time he wants.

He's not free to apply for a job while he is the primary suspect in the high profile bludgeoning death of his wife and unborn son? Who's going to hire him in this economy where job losses are high and salesmen are a dime a dozen?

Free= not in prison, not in jail, not incarcerated, not in a orange jumpsuit, not in handcuffs, not in shackles, not in chains, not on death row,not having visitors come to talk to him through a glass window, not being searched, not having a court date, not being asked how he pleads, not playing bball in a prison yard, not being confined.........etc.
That kind of free.
Kat

[reborn]

No, I don't remember. Do you have a link to this?


No I sure don't at this time. I was sure you would remember it. So many posts disappear but I will go looking for it. If I remember correctly he even said he make sure Cassie wasn't around. i think he probably would have made a lot of people mad if she could have heard him. I'll go looking for it now. If anyone else remember it maybe they can help.

[jerry50]

Free= not in prison, not in jail, not incarcerated, not in a orange jumpsuit, not in handcuffs, not in shackles, not in chains, not on death row,not having visitors come to talk to him through a glass window, not being searched, not having a court date, not being asked how he pleads, not playing bball in a prison yard, not being confined.........etc.
That kind of free.
Kat

If that is the definition of free then I am "free" also. However I can walk out of my house without looking over my shoulder, I can make future plans, I can earn money to buy most everything I want, I can enjoy living. There are all kinds of definitions of "free" and a moral person with integrity would not base his definition of freedom on the things you mentioned.

[jerry50]

No I sure don't at this time. I was sure you would remember it. So many posts disappear but I will go looking for it. If I remember correctly he even said he make sure Cassie wasn't around. i think he probably would have made a lot of people mad if she could have heard him. I'll go looking for it now. If anyone else remember it maybe they can help.

IIRC this incidence happened during a week day when the last place JY and most people would be is church.

[Barbara2]

IIRC this incidence happened during a week day when the last place JY and most people would be is church.

IIRC there was no such incidence but it does seem that there are some that desperately want to believe that it's true. The story gets embellished more and more as time goes on. IMO

[Tia]

If that is the definition of free then I am "free" also. However I can walk out of my house without looking over my shoulder, I can make future plans, I can earn money to buy most everything I want, I can enjoy living. There are all kinds of definitions of "free" and a moral person with integrity would not base his definition of freedom on the things you mentioned.

Most of us define our freedom that way. But I guess to some, Jason not being in jail makes him free, even though he has nothing, not even his own child........ :shrug:

JMO

[reborn]

IIRC there was no such incidence but it does seem that there are some that desperately want to believe that it's true. The story gets embellished more and more as time goes on. IMO


I thought he was coming from church. Jerry59 thought it was the middle of the week. You don't think it happened at all. If the only 2 places you have heard it was me and Jerry where are you getting the fact that the story gets more imbellished as time goes on? Sounds to me like you have heard the story before. I,m still looking for it. I have pretty good luck finding things.

[gbmy]

This may have been part of his strategy. Remember Alan Fisher saying how smart he was? To be seen an hour after arriving would supply part of an alibi that he was at the hotel all night and did not have time to return home and commit the murder.

The murder was not set in stone for that night. If he had driven back to Raleigh and got a ticket or got there too late all he had to do was abort his plans.

For all we know that might not have been his first attempt at murder. He may have run this plan before and had problems and did not go through with his plan.
This is the only explanation I can think of also. But, intentionally tightening an already tight timeline when he knew that even the tighter timeline would be deemed 'doable' seems nuts. And, if you're going to make that part of your plan, then I would think you'd have a rock solid plan to commit a very fast murder vs. the elongated brutal one that occurred on Birchleaf Drive that night. Yeah I know, maybe he 'thought' it would be quick and was met with unexpected resistance......But, when you carry this thought forward, I think most people would agree that there's a greater than 50% chance of someone being asleep in the middle of the night and that, coupled with a plan for a quick murder just doesn't seem to 'fit'. Of course, it's possible though.

[5swab5]

This is the only explanation I can think of also. But, intentionally tightening an already tight timeline when he knew that even the tighter timeline would be deemed 'doable' seems nuts. And, if you're going to make that part of your plan, then I would think you'd have a rock solid plan to commit a very fast murder vs. the elongated brutal one that occurred on Birchleaf Drive that night. Yeah I know, maybe he 'thought' it would be quick and was met with unexpected resistance......But, when you carry this thought forward, I think most people would agree that there's a greater than 50% chance of someone being asleep in the middle of the night and that, coupled with a plan for a quick murder just doesn't seem to 'fit'. Of course, it's possible though.

Apparently timelines aren't his forte. He left what...14+ hours early for a business meeting and was still 35 minutes late? :shrug: MOO

[Leanne Weich]

I bet he got all kinds of calls. Hey Jason I've got this job you can do we won't let the Fisher women know about it. This article was better than any ad he could have ran. Men tend to stick together.

What's that saying .. "birds of a feather flock together". It is m.o. that only a person with a low moral compass or no morals at all would assist a court declared slayer to deny his m-i-l compensation, which has been judicially determined to be due to her. Have you got a job to offer him reborn?

[reborn]

What's that saying .. "birds of a feather flock together". It is m.o. that only a person with a low moral compass or no morals at all would assist a court declared slayer to deny his m-i-l compensation, which has been judicially determined to be due to her. Have you got a job to offer him reborn?


Maybe these birds that are flocking around him don't believe he did this horrible crime. A court declared slayer is really a very meaning less thing. it doesn't mean this person really did the crime. In this case it means the person chose to not even defend the allegation. I think Jason is hoping the real killers will be caught and brought to justice before a criminal court. In MOO the Fishers brought this case based on one Dets. opinion. In MOO only this wasn't about justice but money. That seems to carry over with many posters . There seems to be a lot of pleasure out of the fact that if Jason works its for the Fishers. Yes that flock of birds seems mighty large. What kind of morals do you think those birds have? How do you think they will be judged when judgment day comes? A DA hasn't indicted Jason Young but some have already convicted him. I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only. No I don't have a job to offer Jason . All I can offer him is my prayers that this time in his life will come out the way it should . If Jason killed Michelle then he needs to be punished by the courts of our land. At this point the courts don't seem to have the evidence to prove he did this. Who am I to say I have greater knowledge than they?

[tarheelfan]

Maybe these birds that are flocking around him don't believe he did this horrible crime. A court declared slayer is really a very meaning less thing. it doesn't mean this person really did the crime. In this case it means the person chose to not even defend the allegation. I think Jason is hoping the real killers will be caught and brought to justice before a criminal court. In MOO the Fishers brought this case based on one Dets. opinion. In MOO only this wasn't about justice but money. That seems to carry over with many posters . There seems to be a lot of pleasure out of the fact that if Jason works its for the Fishers. Yes that flock of birds seems mighty large. What kind of morals do you think those birds have? How do you think they will be judged when judgment day comes? A DA hasn't indicted Jason Young but some have already convicted him. I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only. No I don't have a job to offer Jason . All I can offer him is my prayers that this time in his life will come out the way it should . If Jason killed Michelle then he needs to be punished by the courts of our land. At this point the courts don't seem to have the evidence to prove he did this. Who am I to say I have greater knowledge than they?


::laugh::laugh::laugh: Jason is waiting alright......poor thing is probably a nervous wreck looking over his shoulder, jumping whenever a car pulls in the driveway. The ONLY person who has convicted JY is JY himself. I, too, pray.....I pray CW quits stalling.
JY is a selfish, evil, cold-blooded killer and will indeed be punished. I look forward to the day when the violence of prison stares him in the face every minute of every day. I hope he feels pain and remembers what he did every time he's "passed around" like the "punk" he is!!

[5swab5]

Maybe these birds that are flocking around him don't believe he did this horrible crime. A court declared slayer is really a very meaning less thing. it doesn't mean this person really did the crime. In this case it means the person chose to not even defend the allegation. I think Jason is hoping the real killers will be caught and brought to justice before a criminal court. In MOO the Fishers brought this case based on one Dets. opinion. In MOO only this wasn't about justice but money. That seems to carry over with many posters . There seems to be a lot of pleasure out of the fact that if Jason works its for the Fishers. Yes that flock of birds seems mighty large. What kind of morals do you think those birds have? How do you think they will be judged when judgment day comes? A DA hasn't indicted Jason Young but some have already convicted him. I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only. No I don't have a job to offer Jason . All I can offer him is my prayers that this time in his life will come out the way it should . If Jason killed Michelle then he needs to be punished by the courts of our land. At this point the courts don't seem to have the evidence to prove he did this. Who am I to say I have greater knowledge than they?


Being declared a slayer is anything BUT a meaningless thing. I can't imagine that anyone takes it lightly, including the judge that was on the bench. Jason certainly had the option to defend himself in court, but chose not to. If the possible outcome of appearing in court was worse than being declared a slayer, I think we all know why he stayed at home.

The title of slayer will follow him and his family for the rest of their lives. It will be talked about behind closed doors and whispered about in public. It is a shameful thing to let happen. It will always effect Jason's ability to get a job. People don't live in a vacuum, few will sympathized with him and fewer will take the chance of their company's reputation by associating with him.

His title of slayer isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Stephen's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

His loss of PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Sasser's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

The judgment entered against him for over 15 million dollars isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Smith's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

You go ahead and pray for Jason. I will save my prayers for the vicitims. I also pray my mind never gets so cloudy that I can't see anything. It is nice to know that you won't be hiring Jason anytime soon, I say he made his bed...let him lie in it. MOO

Justice for Michelle and Rylan. :rose:

[gbmy]

Apparently timelines aren't his forte. He left what...14+ hours early for a business meeting and was still 35 minutes late? :shrug: MOO
Given the school of thought that says this was a pre-med murder, if something as basic as a timeline was not his forte, then it probably would be an indicator of poor planning in other aspects of the murder. And, IMO, a poorly planned, "non-random" murder where the body was found immediately and the crime scene sealed off right away is not congruent with an almost 2.5 year murder investigation that has yet to even yield an arrest. Sure, I understand there's lots of precedent for cases that have taken much, much longer since you must be very careful to have all of the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed. That argument can be used indefinitely until the case is solved.....Whether that be this year, next year, 2020, 2030, etc.....

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I am sure he just helped his daughter celebrate her 5th birthday, and
it is bball time, Final Four!!
NC State , right?
I would imagine that is what he is concerned about.
Kat

NC State didn't make it to the Final Four. They didn't make it to the Final 64. They didn't even get invited to the NIT. UNC is in the Final Four. Other than that, you're correct. He is also concerned about all the staring from people that know who he is and what he is suspected of doing. I'm sure that sort of puts a damper on his outings and is the reason that he rarely goes out with his buds (the two or three that he has left) anymore. JMO........

[Tia]

Maybe these birds that are flocking around him don't believe he did this horrible crime. A court declared slayer is really a very meaning less thing. it doesn't mean this person really did the crime. In this case it means the person chose to not even defend the allegation. I think Jason is hoping the real killers will be caught and brought to justice before a criminal court. In MOO the Fishers brought this case based on one Dets. opinion. In MOO only this wasn't about justice but money. That seems to carry over with many posters . There seems to be a lot of pleasure out of the fact that if Jason works its for the Fishers. Yes that flock of birds seems mighty large. What kind of morals do you think those birds have? How do you think they will be judged when judgment day comes? A DA hasn't indicted Jason Young but some have already convicted him. I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only. No I don't have a job to offer Jason . All I can offer him is my prayers that this time in his life will come out the way it should . If Jason killed Michelle then he needs to be punished by the courts of our land. At this point the courts don't seem to have the evidence to prove he did this. Who am I to say I have greater knowledge than they?


So those who do not support Jason have no morals? And Jason does?

I guess I missed him standing up for himself, fighting the civil and custody suits, etc.........

Mmmmm kay.

I think I'd be more fearful of judgement day if I were supporting an adulterer and murderer (I think those things are pretty serious)......but hey, thats just me :).

[Tia]

NC State didn't make it to the Final Four. They didn't make it to the Final 64. They didn't even get invited to the NIT. UNC is in the Final Four. Other than that, you're correct. He is also concerned about all the staring from people that know who he is and what he is suspected of doing. I'm sure that sort of puts a damper on his outings and is the reason that he rarely goes out with his buds (the two or three that he has left) anymore. JMO........


Somehow I don't think that sports are what is on Jason's mind these days. I think his life is FAR from the cutsy little descriptions we see here. He has a ton of worries right now and its only going to get worse.


JMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Maybe these birds that are flocking around him don't believe he did this horrible crime. A court declared slayer is really a very meaning less thing. it doesn't mean this person really did the crime. In this case it means the person chose to not even defend the allegation. I think Jason is hoping the real killers will be caught and brought to justice before a criminal court. In MOO the Fishers brought this case based on one Dets. opinion. In MOO only this wasn't about justice but money. That seems to carry over with many posters . There seems to be a lot of pleasure out of the fact that if Jason works its for the Fishers. Yes that flock of birds seems mighty large. What kind of morals do you think those birds have? How do you think they will be judged when judgment day comes? A DA hasn't indicted Jason Young but some have already convicted him. I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only. No I don't have a job to offer Jason . All I can offer him is my prayers that this time in his life will come out the way it should . If Jason killed Michelle then he needs to be punished by the courts of our land. At this point the courts don't seem to have the evidence to prove he did this. Who am I to say I have greater knowledge than they?

I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only.

Would the obsession with the 911 call be an example of what you are speaking of? Would that be looking at one thing and one thing only?

Would failing to look at any of the mounting evidence against Jason be an example of a clouded mind? Just asking for clarification?

IMO as always.

[5swab5]

Given the school of thought that says this was a pre-med murder, if something as basic as a timeline was not his forte, then it probably would be an indicator of poor planning in other aspects of the murder. And, IMO, a poorly planned, "non-random" murder where the body was found immediately and the crime scene sealed off right away is not congruent with an almost 2.5 year murder investigation that has yet to even yield an arrest. Sure, I understand there's lots of precedent for cases that have taken much, much longer since you must be very careful to have all of the "i's" dotted and "t's" crossed. That argument can be used indefinitely until the case is solved.....Whether that be this year, next year, 2020, 2030, etc.....

Nobody ever accused murders of being smart. I think there is a stat somewhere that says they always make mistakes. Murders in one's own household are always more complicated and time consuming than others, just by virtue of the fact that a lot of physical evidence can be explained away.

You might consider factoring into your perception of the murder the sheer devastation that was visited upon Michelle, it was PURE hatred. No one, save someone that had that kind of hate in their heart could pound and pound and pound a defenseless and probably already dead human being.

One would think that the :cough: loving :cough: husband would demand answers for such an injustice. If not for Michelle, at least for Rylan, he never stood a chance. :cursing:MOO

[reborn]

Being declared a slayer is anything BUT a meaningless thing. I can't imagine that anyone takes it lightly, including the judge that was on the bench. Jason certainly had the option to defend himself in court, but chose not to. If the possible outcome of appearing in court was worse than being declared a slayer, I think we all know why he stayed at home.

The title of slayer will follow him and his family for the rest of their lives. It will be talked about behind closed doors and whispered about in public. It is a shameful thing to let happen. It will always effect Jason's ability to get a job. People don't live in a vacuum, few will sympathized with him and fewer will take the chance of their company's reputation by associating with him.

His title of slayer isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Stephen's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

His loss of PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Sasser's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

The judgment entered against him for over 15 million dollars isn't Linda Fisher, Meredith Fisher, Insp. Spivey or Judge Smith's fault. Jason is a grown man, it is his fault.

You go ahead and pray for Jason. I will save my prayers for the vicitims. I also pray my mind never gets so cloudy that I can't see anything. It is nice to know that you won't be hiring Jason anytime soon, I say he made his bed...let him lie in it. MOO

Justice for Michelle and Rylan. :rose:

If other killers of Michelle are indicted and convicted of this crime Jason 's slayer judgement will be set aside. He can't be the slayer if he isn't the murderer. I believe before this case is finished we will see this happen.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

If other killers of Michelle are indicted and convicted of this crime Jason 's slayer judgement will be set aside. He can't be the slayer if he isn't the murderer. I believe before this case is finished we will see this happen.

That IF is a mighty big word.

[Tia]

That IF is a mighty big word.

It sure is.

And its all going to change when the REAL killers are caught!

I am curious as to why an "innocent" man would allow himself to be named a slayer and allow his only surviving child to be removed from his primary physical custody?

If he is innocent, what is he waiting for? Why not help LE capture the "real killers"?

JMO

[reborn]

I hope my mind never gets so clouded that I can,t see but one thing and one thing only.

Would the obsession with the 911 call be an example of what you are speaking of? Would that be looking at one thing and one thing only?

Would failing to look at any of the mounting evidence against Jason be an example of a clouded mind? Just asking for clarification?

IMO as always.


I would be willing to look at this mounting evidence if you could point me to it. Seems Jason liked the women. Lots of men do that doesn't prove murder. Jason was in the motel at midnight and at Wytheville , Va at 7:40 am. I have seen absolutely no evidence he was any where except in bed at Hillsville Va. during those 7 hrs and 40 minutes unaccounted for. Two set of footprints at the murder scene. Clean child in bloody room. Keys in wrong place. Strange 911 call. I don't think my mind is clouded . I think I am looking at all possibilities.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I would be willing to look at this mounting evidence if you could point me to it. Seems Jason liked the women. Lots of men do that doesn't prove murder. Jason was in the motel at midnight and at Wytheville , Va at 7:40 am. I have seen absolutely no evidence he was any where except in bed at Hillsville Va. during those 7 hrs and 40 minutes unaccounted for. Two set of footprints at the murder scene. Clean child in bloody room. Keys in wrong place. Strange 911 call. I don't think my mind is clouded . I think I am looking at all possibilities.

Other JDI's may disagree with me but I appreciate your sense of humor. Whenever I get down I just come here and read some of your postings and it cheers me up. I don't know if it's what they call gallows's humor, or just a morbid sense of humor, but thanks anyway.

IMO...........:drool:

[reborn]

Other JDI's may disagree with me but I appreciate your sense of humor. Whenever I get down I just come here and read some of your postings and it cheers me up. I don't know if it's what they call gallows's humor, or just a morbid sense of humor, but thanks anyway.

IMO...........:drool:

Do I take this as your answer to point me to the mounting evidence? Does that mean you have none? Glad I was able to cheer you up. Sorry to here you were feeling down.

[Tia]

IMO, the biggest piece of CE in this case is Jason's lack of cooperation from day one, allowing himself declared a slayer and giving up primary physical custody of his only surviving child.

[5swab5]

I would be willing to look at this mounting evidence if you could point me to it. Seems Jason liked the women. Lots of men do that doesn't prove murder. Jason was in the motel at midnight and at Wytheville , Va at 7:40 am. I have seen absolutely no evidence he was any where except in bed at Hillsville Va. during those 7 hrs and 40 minutes unaccounted for. Two set of footprints at the murder scene. Clean child in bloody room. Keys in wrong place. Strange 911 call. I don't think my mind is clouded . I think I am looking at all possibilities.

The "evidence" has been pointed out to you multiple times, you just choose to ignore it, and keep harping on that tired old bit about Meredith misplacing her keys the day she found her sister pummeled to death. :bored:


If Jason was in his bed in Hillsville, LE would have moved on long ago. For starters...How was he in his bed? I know some think he can walk on water, but can he walk through walls as well? Jason's key card was used once and only once. No one with a lick of sense is going to leave their hotel room unlocked while they go down two flights of stairs to the lobby, and no one with an ounce of common sense is going to believe Jason did it either. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Do I take this as your answer to point me to the mounting evidence? Does that mean you have none? Glad I was able to cheer you up. Sorry to here you were feeling down.

No, the mounting evidence point has been hashed and rehashed so much that it is getting monotonous. Its like looking at the eye chart in the doctor's office. Either you see it or you don't.

BTW, I'm not down today. But when I am I know that you will be here.:thumbsup:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Aren't we getting close to the magic post number? Does someone need to PM CW and start a new thread?

[Tia]

Aren't we getting close to the magic post number? Does someone need to PM CW and start a new thread?

Yes we are! Would you like to do the honors???!

[reborn]

The "evidence" has been pointed out to you multiple times, you just choose to ignore it, and keep harping on that tired old bit about Meredith misplacing her keys the day she found her sister pummeled to death. :bored:


If Jason was in his bed in Hillsville, LE would have moved on long ago. For starters...How was he in his bed? I know some think he can walk on water, but can he walk through walls as well? Jason's key card was used once and only once. No one with a lick of sense is going to leave their hotel room unlocked while they go down two flights of stairs to the lobby, and no one with an ounce of common sense is going to believe Jason did it either. MOO


Well we know Jason took at least one luggage bag in with him. When did he remove it? I guess I don't have a lick of common sense because I've propped my motel room and make several trips to the car loading luggage. To tell if a door is propped someone must push on it. Do you think in a quality motel people are going around pushing on other peoples doors? I wouldn't leave my door propped in a 39 dollar a night room but I never have any fears in the motels I stay in. The only time I ever had anything stolen from a motel was in Nashville Tenn and my door was locked. The maids there liked shiny things.

[Tia]

Aren't we getting close to the magic post number? Does someone need to PM CW and start a new thread?


I started a new one and PM'd CW :)

[5swab5]

Well we know Jason took at least one luggage bag in with him. When did he remove it? I guess I don't have a lick of common sense because I've propped my motel room and make several trips to the car loading luggage. To tell if a door is propped someone must push on it. Do you think in a quality motel people are going around pushing on other peoples doors? I wouldn't leave my door propped in a 39 dollar a night room but I never have any fears in the motels I stay in. The only time I ever had anything stolen from a motel was in Nashville Tenn and my door was locked. The maids there liked shiny things.

I don't think I need to tell you how foolish that is, if you really do it you are taking a huge chance. Someone could slip in your room and be waiting on you.

Jason was out of town and not on familiar turf, there is NO reason to believe that he would be stupid enough to leave his room unlocked and go downstairs. MOO