Michelle Fisher Young 3-18-09

[trucrime]

Write on! The rights of the father are absolute. Those people who question that right should be still....or put on a robe and rule from the bench.

You mean "right on"? You seem really bitter about the whole custody issue KB. You're sounding pretty irrational no offense. IMO.

[Cardinal]

Write on! The rights of the father are absolute. Those people who question that right should be still....or put on a robe and rule from the bench.

If you're referring to the Cassidy Young custody case, you're mistaken. No judge "ruled from the bench". The judge in CY custody case only validated an agreement between Jason and Meredith. And the outcome that exists couldn't exist unless Jason chose - CHOSE - to give up his absolute right to custody.

Your anger is misplaced, IMO.

[Doorbell]

The detective used them, just as he used the little girl. The Fishers' desire made them unwilling or incapable of seeing or resenting the manipulation. Just my opinion and all that jazz.

The only one seeing "manipulation" here is you. :blink:

That's because, as far as Jason is concerned, you are blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. Hence, the victim's family gets "the hairy eyeball" from you.

How you can continue to defend an individual who won't stand up for his rights as a father, or as a man, is totally beyond me.

The only thing you have going for you is pure D stubbornness. I hope the slayer appreciates it. Did he cut your firewood last fall? Is he planting your tomatoes? Does he come around and say, "Gojo, thanks for all your efforts?"

[Doorbell]

Wait a minute. You're asking the board if we see the transition from a home with her father and grandmother and numerous relatives to a bachelor pad in Raleigh is a problem? No. This board member sees it as a disaster. But God made kids tough. They are survivors.

"Bachelor Pad???"

Princeton University's on line dictionary defines "bachelor" as "an unmarried man."

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=bachelor

I suppose the equivalent feminine term is "spinster," but that hardly has the connotation you want, does it, KB? Sounds much too settled and tame.

Are you fantasizing about what goes on in the life of a single woman? I am thinking you will never know.

Try thinking about a nice house with a nice yard and a nice room for a small girl.

You need to eat your wheaties and go go a few crossword puzzles to try and preserve what's left of your critical thinking skills.

IMO

[Stellagant]

Bachelor pad? Meredith isn't a bachelor, she's female. She doesn't live in a pad, she lives in a house.

Children are indeed resilient but the early years, ages 0-6, often determine lifelong patterns. This opinion is based on experience, whatever, but children that experience early childhood trauma, such as being separated from a mother, can suffer memory loss around the time of the trauma, as well as difficulties bonding later in life. Will being separated from her father compound those problems? Will being with her mother's sister in familiar surrounding help with those problems? I don't know. For some reason, the Judge determined that it was in Cassidy's best interest to live with her aunt and visit with her father a couple of times per month from now on. The Judge obviously knows far more about Cassidy's circumstances with her father than is known here, and would not have transferred primary custody to Meredith without serious concerns about Jason's parenting. That much is obvious.

No, the judge did NOT determine it was in Cassidy's best interest to live with her aunt nor did he transfer primary custody to Meredith. Jason made his own decisions.

The judge certainly didn't express any opinion whatsoever about Jason's parenting skills. For some reason, you constantly misrepresent the facts.

[Tia]

I find it so interesting that posters who have proclaimed over the last 2 years that Jason had the absolute right to decide what is best for his daughter are now questioning his right to to decide what is best for his daughter.

Always everyone else's fault but Jason.

I am disgusted and truly hope that this is not a representation of the way the Young's feel. If it is, child services should be called immediately.

Jason FAILED to fight for anyone or anything but himself. This was Jason's CHOICE.

JMO

[Jester]

No, the judge did NOT determine it was in Cassidy's best interest to live with her aunt nor did he transfer primary custody to Meredith. Jason made his own decisions.

The judge certainly didn't express any opinion whatsoever about Jason's parenting skills. For some reason, you constantly misrepresent the facts.

Thanks for correcting me. So it was Jason that decided to give up primary custody of his daughter. That's great. If he prefers to see his daughter four days a month rather than raise her, then she's better off with her mother's sister.

I'm not sure how your "extortion" theory works with "Jason made his own decisions", but I'm sure you'll help me understand that absolute contradiction.

[Stellagant]

What extortion?

It appears the Fishers dropped their demand for a psych examination in exchange for custody.

[Stellagant]

Thanks for correcting me. So it was Jason that decided to give up primary custody of his daughter. That's great. If he prefers to see his daughter four days a month rather than raise her, then she's better off with her mother's sister.

I'm not sure how your "extortion" theory works with "Jason made his own decisions", but I'm sure you'll help me understand that absolute contradiction.

I doubt you'll ever understand it.

[Jester]

It appears the Fishers dropped their demand for a psych examination in exchange for custody.

Wait a minute. You said "Jason made his own decisions." Are you trying to say that he was manipulated into making the decisions he made? Someone else is suggesting that the Fishers were manipulated into filing for custody. Are these people nothing but pawns, or are they adults that stand by their decisions?

What do you think? Is Jason a pawn, or a man that can stand on his own two feet and make a decision without being coerced and manipulated?

[Jester]

I doubt you'll ever understand it.

You're right. I will never understand how you can claim on the one hand that Jason made his own decisions, and on the other hand that he was manipulated into making those decisions.

[Tia]

I can't even begin to imagine who will be blamed once Jason is arrested!!


JMO

[Jester]

I can't even begin to imagine who will be blamed once Jason is arrested!!


JMO

Perhaps we'll read that the police were manipulated by forums.

[Tia]

Perhaps we'll read that the police were manipulated by forums.

Of course!!!:tongueside:

[Stellagant]

Wait a minute. You said "Jason made his own decisions." Are you trying to say that he was manipulated into making the decisions he made? Someone else is suggesting that the Fishers were manipulated into filing for custody. Are these people nothing but pawns, or are they adults that stand by their decisions?

What do you think? Is Jason a pawn, or a man that can stand on his own two feet and make a decision without being coerced and manipulated?

You don't seem to grasp the legal strategy. Jason made a decision to ensure both his civil rights and parental rights remain intact. It is a decision not carved in stone. Meredith has no parental rights whatsoever.

:lol:

[Stellagant]

You're right. I will never understand how you can claim on the one hand that Jason made his own decisions, and on the other hand that he was manipulated into making those decisions.

Sorry it is so unclear to you.

[Jester]

You don't seem to grasp the legal strategy. Jason made a decision to ensure both his civil rights and parental rights remain intact. It is a decision not carved in stone. Meredith has no parental rights whatsoever.

:lol:

Oh. OK. She has primary custody of Cassidy, but no parental/guardian rights (guardian, as Meredith is obviously not a parent). I disagree, but that's not important. Jason made the decision to give up primary custody of his daughter, and to see her four days a month. Any child, whose father consents to giving away primary custody of that child, is better of with any other guardian.

Consent orders are carved in stone until such time that it can be demonstrated that the child is at risk. That's not going to happen with Cassidy living with Meredith, so it's safe to assume that it's carved in stone.

[Jester]

Sorry it is so unclear to you.

Contradictory statements have always left me skeptical.

[Doorbell]

It appears the Fishers dropped their demand for a psych examination in exchange for custody.

Custody is what they wanted, IMO. The psych eval was a bargaining chip, again, IMO.

[Stellagant]

Oh. OK. She has primary custody of Cassidy, but no parental/guardian rights (guardian, as Meredith is obviously not a parent). I disagree, but that's not important. Jason made the decision to give up primary custody of his daughter, and to see her four days a month. Any child, whose father consents to giving away primary custody of that child, is better of with any other guardian.

Consent orders are carved in stone until such time that it can be demonstrated that the child is at risk. That's not going to happen with Cassidy living with Meredith, so it's safe to assume that it's carved in stone.


A guardian does not have parental rights. That's a fact whether you want to agree or not.

I doubt it will be all that difficult to prove the child is better off living full-time with her parent.

[Tia]

Oh. OK. She has primary custody of Cassidy, but no parental/guardian rights (guardian, as Meredith is obviously not a parent). I disagree, but that's not important. Jason made the decision to give up primary custody of his daughter, and to see her four days a month. Any child, whose father consents to giving away primary custody of that child, is better of with any other guardian.

Consent orders are carved in stone until such time that it can be demonstrated that the child is at risk. That's not going to happen with Cassidy living with Meredith, so it's safe to assume that it's carved in stone.

Exactly, she has the same rights as Jason. I think the "parental rights" arguement is just splitting hairs. They share legal custody and Meredith has Primary physical custody. She has the same rights as if she were Cassidy's biological mother.

Its pretty clear cut.


JMO

[Jester]

A guardian does not have parental rights. That's a fact whether you want to agree or not.

I doubt it will be all that difficult to prove the child is better off living full-time with her parent.

Her only parent consented to her permanently living with his deceased wife's family. What's he going to say next, that he had a moment of temporary insanity and didn't realize what he was doing? That his lawyer gave him bad advice? That he made his own decisions but they weren't really his own decisions, rather he was manipulated into making the decisions he made with the advice of his lawyer? There's nothing left to discuss regarding Cassidy's primary custody, nothing left to prove. It's a done deal.

[Stellagant]

Custody is what they wanted, IMO. The psych eval was a bargaining chip, again, IMO.

An unethical bargaining chip. I seriously doubt Fishers' attorneys were aware of that when they filed the custody claim.

[Doorbell]

A guardian does not have parental rights. That's a fact whether you want to agree or not.

I doubt it will be all that difficult to prove the child is better off living full-time with her parent.


Then why didn't he do it?

Can you please explain what rights (legally) that a parent has and a guardian does not?

[Doorbell]

An unethical bargaining chip. I seriously doubt Fishers' attorneys were aware of that when they filed the custody claim.

Please explain how that was "unethical," and why lawyers would file a claim without full knowledge of the facts.

[Jester]

Exactly, she has the same rights as Jason. I think the "parental rights" arguement is just splitting hairs. They share legal custody and Meredith has Primary physical custody. She has the same rights as if she were Cassidy's biological mother.

Its pretty clear cut.


JMO

Absolutely. If Meredith does not currently have full rights as legal guardian of Cassidy, then she soon will. She cannot have primary custody of a child, and not have signing authority regarding her educational and medical care.

[Stellagant]

Her only parent consented to her permanently living with his deceased wife's family. What's he going to say next, that he had a moment of temporary insanity and didn't realize what he was doing? That his lawyer gave him bad advice? That he made his own decisions but they weren't really his own decisions, rather he was manipulated into making the decisions he made with the advice of his lawyer? There's nothing left to discuss regarding Cassidy's primary custody, nothing left to prove. It's a done deal.

If you want to believe it is a done deal, go ahead.

It won't take much at all to undo it because Jason's parental rights are intact.

[Stellagant]

Absolutely. If Meredith does not currently have full rights as legal guardian of Cassidy, then she soon will. She cannot have primary custody of a child, and not have signing authority regarding her educational and medical care.

no, parental rights are only available to parents by birth or by adoption.

Meredith shares in important legal decisions regarding Cassidy's educational and medical care.

[Jester]

If you want to believe it is a done deal, go ahead.

It won't take much at all to undo it because Jason's parental rights are intact.

It is nearly impossible to undo a consent order. Jason has to provide evidence that there was something wrong with his mind, or his legal advice, to reject his own consent order.

[reborn]

Always everyone else's fault but Jason.

I am disgusted and truly hope that this is not a representation of the way the Young's feel. If it is, child services should be called immediately.

Jason FAILED to fight for anyone or anything but himself. This was Jason's CHOICE.

JMO

LOL I bet the people at child services knows your voice. Every time we turn around you are wanting them called. I can't see who you would be calling them on today ? Cassie is in Raleigh. Are you calling them on Jason because he didn't do what you wanted? I came on to see if the DA indicted today. I thought the custody thing was a done deal. I don't see it as any bad thing that Cassie is with Meredith. Maybe it will be good for both of them. Lots of fathers only have their kids every other week end.

[Stellagant]

Please explain how that was "unethical," and why lawyers would file a claim without full knowledge of the facts.


Lawyers won't know their client has ulterior motives unless they are told up front. If they know it and go ahead anyway, they can be disciplined and possibly disbarred.

It's more than obvious the request for a psych exam wasn't done out of concern for Cassidy.

[kingbuff]

You're right. I will never understand how you can claim on the one hand that Jason made his own decisions, and on the other hand that he was manipulated into making those decisions.

Here's the way I understand it. For Jason to challenge the Fishers in court, he would have to be deposed. He and his lawyer decided it would be best for him and Cassie that he not be grilled until the police bag the killers. No, he wasn't manipulated. He refused to be manipulated. The detective manipulated the Fishers and used Cassie.

[Stellagant]

It is nearly impossible to undo a consent order. Jason has to provide evidence that there was something wrong with his mind, or his legal advice, to reject his own consent order.

FYI: A custody consent order is all about what is in the best interest of the child.

[Tia]

Absolutely. If Meredith does not currently have full rights as legal guardian of Cassidy, then she soon will. She cannot have primary custody of a child, and not have signing authority regarding her educational and medical care.

Exactly. Also, as long as Jason's "parental rights" remain, he is responsible for assisting in financially supporting Cassidy.

[Stellagant]

Here's the way I understand it. For Jason to challenge the Fishers in court, he would have to be deposed. He and his lawyer decided it would be best for him and Cassie that he not be grilled until the police bag the killers. No, he wasn't manipulated. He refused to be manipulated. The detective manipulated the Fishers and used Cassie.

ITA. Little Cassidy was the innocent pawn in the short-term.

[reborn]

Here's the way I understand it. For Jason to challenge the Fishers in court, he would have to be deposed. He and his lawyer decided it would be best for him and Cassie that he not be grilled until the police bag the killers. No, he wasn't manipulated. He refused to be manipulated. The detective manipulated the Fishers and used Cassie.


Thats exactly how I understand it . I think its a good arrangement. It has stopped the Fishers from being able to shop Cassies photos around . I wish LE would let us know who shopped Jasons email to NC Wanted. LE knows by now since they have the emails.

[Tia]

LOL I bet the people at child services knows your voice. Every time we turn around you are wanting them called. I can't see who you would be calling them on today ? Cassie is in Raleigh. Are you calling them on Jason because he didn't do what you wanted? I came on to see if the DA indicted today. I thought the custody thing was a done deal. I don't see it as any bad thing that Cassie is with Meredith. Maybe it will be good for both of them. Lots of fathers only have their kids every other week end.

You bet they knows my voice?
Every time you turn around I am wanting them called?

Since when?

:rolleyes:

[Stellagant]

Thats exactly how I understand it . I think its a good arrangement. It has stopped the Fishers from being able to shop Cassies photos around . I wish LE would let us know who shopped Jasons email to NC Wanted. LE knows by now since they have the emails.

Good point about the photos.

LE is trying to find out if all those emails were from Jason's accounts or was someone pretending to be Jason.

[Jester]

Here's the way I understand it. For Jason to challenge the Fishers in court, he would have to be deposed. He and his lawyer decided it would be best for him and Cassie that he not be grilled until the police bag the killers. No, he wasn't manipulated. He refused to be manipulated. The detective manipulated the Fishers and used Cassie.

That's his loss. If Jason is more afraid of answering a few questions about his activities on the night that his wife was murdered than losing custody and companionship of his daughter, then his priorities are in the wrong place. I can only conclude that he is very afraid of how the answers to questions about his night in a hotel miles away from home will sound. That is, there must be some serious problems with his alibi.

[kingbuff]

It is nearly impossible to undo a consent order. Jason has to provide evidence that there was something wrong with his mind, or his legal advice, to reject his own consent order.

Actually, not what the judge said. He said "a substantial change of circumstances" could change it. And no, I have no idea what that means. Not exactly "carved in stone" as you suggested earlier. It does though seem to give more alternatives than the miserly two you give. I think we ought to keep an open mind about this.

[Jester]

FYI: A custody consent order is all about what is in the best interest of the child.

Good. Jason made his own decisions, and it was his decision that the best interests of the child are best served if she is raised by Meredith.

[Kat4Eagles]

Good point about the photos.

LE is trying to find out if all those emails were from Jason's accounts or was someone pretending to be Jason.


Gosh, no GJ indictment today, huh?
I am ever so disappointed, aren't you?
Kat

[Jester]

Exactly. Also, as long as Jason's "parental rights" remain, he is responsible for assisting in financially supporting Cassidy.

I would hope so. Jason should consider it a privilege to contribute financially to his daughter's quality of life. Clearly he didn't want to raise his daughter, clearly he chose Meredith to raise her, clearly he should want to assist financially.

[Stellagant]

That's his loss. If Jason is more afraid of answering a few questions about his activities on the night that his wife was murdered than losing custody and companionship of his daughter, then his priorities are in the wrong place. I can only conclude that he is very afraid of how the answers to questions about his night in a hotel miles away from home will sound. That is, there must be some serious problems with his alibi.

Jason hasn't lost custody of his child. And, guess what? Going forward, it isn't about Jason, it is all about his child and her best interest.

[kingbuff]

That's his loss. If Jason is more afraid of answering a few questions about his activities on the night that his wife was murdered than losing custody and companionship of his daughter, then his priorities are in the wrong place. I can only conclude that he is very afraid of how the answers to questions about his night in a hotel miles away from home will sound. That is, there must be some serious problems with his alibi.

I suggest you find Cooper's 8 hour grilling to get an idea about the 'few questions' you mention. Maybe someone can give you a link, if you ask.

[Jester]

Actually, not what the judge said. He said "a substantial change of circumstances" could change it. And no, I have no idea what that means. Not exactly "carved in stone" as you suggested earlier. It does though seem to give more alternatives than the miserly two you give. I think we ought to keep an open mind about this.

Typically, the courts are reluctant to change the day to day care of a child unless there is evidence that the child is at risk. That information was provided prior to the change in custody, when it was argued that it would be unlikely that Meredith and Linda would receive custody because they could not necessarily demonstrate that Cassidy was at risk in her present circumstance. The reverse is also true ... if Jason wants to change primary custody again.

[Tia]

That's his loss. If Jason is more afraid of answering a few questions about his activities on the night that his wife was murdered than losing custody and companionship of his daughter, then his priorities are in the wrong place. I can only conclude that he is very afraid of how the answers to questions about his night in a hotel miles away from home will sound. That is, there must be some serious problems with his alibi.

Jason is the only one who knows why he made the decisions he did. Its pretty obvious to most of us, like you said, he is afraid to be answer questions. Jason is the one who should be explain why he did what he did, Jason is the one who should be questioned, but he ain't talkin'.

Blaming the Fisher's for Jason's decision to allow himself declared a "slayer" and for agreeing to give Meredith primary physical custody and shared legal custody is a new low.

I would think the reason he did this would be clear to everyone. I thought all would see his true colors after the very bad decisions he has made regarding himself and his child, but I was mistaken.

Some still believe its the Fisher's fault.

[Stellagant]

Gosh, no GJ indictment today, huh?
I am ever so disappointed, aren't you?
Kat

LOL. All that "proof" against Jason including the latest re-inactment on tv still hasn't managed to impress a jury. Why am I not surprised? What week are we in?

[Barbara2]

I suggest you find Cooper's 8 hour grilling to get an idea about the 'few questions' you mention. Maybe someone can give you a link, if you ask.

Using an example of a man who has been arrested for the murder of his wife doesn't exactly reflect well on Jason. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Whilst "we" don't know the players, we have learned quite a bit over the past 2+ years. We've learned that:-

the gifts sent by Michelle's family to Cassidy were returned;

the Fishers were not afforded regular or unsupervised visitation with Cassidy;

the Fishers have never bad mouthed JY publically to the point that it has been reported in the media (what Linda is supposed to have said at the wake has not been confirmed) and the Youngs did not attempt to stop Meredith from getting the vast majority of custody of Cassidy; and either did not or were not able to talk JY into fighting the WDS.

Those are but a few things we do know. I'm glad that Cassie will be with Michelle's family so close to her birthday - I'm sure they'll throw her a wonderful early BD party and I'm sure Grandma Pat will too. Given the fact that she can't have her mom with her, this should still be a fun and special time for her, imo.



Yep, and we learned that CY attended church and daycare, and that she was in dance classes, saw a therapist, and had friends !!

We learned that she was stable, loved, and flourishing with Jason and the Youngs.!!

We learned she was getting cuter and cuter by the moment, looking more and more like her Dad, and that she was becoming her own person.!!

We learned that despite all she has been through, and she has been through more than any child should have, she was doing well, and I hope she will have a wonderful birthday on Sunday too, when she is back home where she belongs.

JMO

Kat

[Stellagant]

Typically, the courts are reluctant to change the day to day care of a child unless there is evidence that the child is at risk. That information was provided prior to the change in custody, when it was argued that it would be unlikely that Meredith and Linda would receive custody because they could not necessarily demonstrate that Cassidy was at risk in her present circumstance. The reverse is also true ... if Jason wants to change primary custody again.

Hello? The court didn't decide custody in this case, the parties settled. Jason and Meredith are sharing custody.

And, yes, Jason can change his mind. He has rights and so does Cassidy. Meredith is just a third-party.

[achristie]

I suggest you find Cooper's 8 hour grilling to get an idea about the 'few questions' you mention. Maybe someone can give you a link, if you ask.


So, you watched them? I did too. Very painful to watch him squirm.
I can see why JY would not submit to that. The questioner was firm and unrelenting. There was no way out.

MOO Aggie

[Stellagant]

Yep, and we learned that CY attended church and daycare, and that she was in dance classes, saw a therapist, and had friends !!

We learned that she was stable, loved, and flourishing with Jason and the Youngs.!!

We learned she was getting cuter and cuter by the moment, looking more and more like her Dad, and that she was becoming her own person.!!

We learned that despite all she has been through, and she has been through more than any child should have, she was doing well, and I hope she will have a wonderful birthday on Sunday too, when she is back home where she belongs.

JMO

Kat

Yes, she belongs at home. These extended visits without her only parent by her side have to be very stressful on a child her age. Now that the WDS is over, no reason not to end them.

[Kat4Eagles]

When Jason proclaimed I don't care who gets her, he said it with disgust and hatred. Now that he has had the option to fight for Cassidy or submit to a psyche evaluation and a deposition, and he chose to cede PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy instead, it is clear to me that he still holds that disdain in his heart.

It would be more productive for some to aim their wrath at the slayer rather than Michelle's relatives. After all, Jason made his bed...Michelle, Rylan, Linda and Meredith had no choice in the matter. MOO


The remark about who gets her was in reference to who was picking her up that day........:no:

Kat

[Stellagant]

You ignored my suggestion. Have you seen the 'few questions' of the 8 hour grilling? And by the way, Cooper answered the 'few questions' before he was arrested.

also, btw, the Cooper custody settlement took place AFTER the 8-hr grilling AND the psych exam. Two items that were essential in determining the best interests of the children.

[Kat4Eagles]

LOL. All that "proof" against Jason including the latest re-inactment on tv still hasn't managed to impress a jury. Why am I not surprised? What week are we in?

I think it is 120 weeks now.....and 60 grand juries imminently..
:)
Kat

[bsatis]

I think it is 120 weeks now.....and 60 grand juries imminently..
:)
Kat

So, I assume from the smiley face that you are happy that it has taken that long for there to be justice for Michelle and Rylan? I mean, a smiley face does denote happiness, yes?

Sorry if I don't share your attitude about the lack of justice.

[Tia]

Sarcastic much? I am glad this is such a joke to you.

Its very sad that its become a joke. These are REAL people with REAL lives, lives who have been destroyed by one selfish man's act, yet he has a whole cheerleading squad for each day he remains free. I feel so badly for little Cassidy, Meredith, Linda and also for the Young's.

As Sharon Rocha said, "Divorce was an option".

:sad:

[Tia]

I want to see the post where ANYONE said there would be an indictment today. I bet tons of people were hoping, but I never saw anyone proclaim it would happen.

And, "whatever." I am not stupid -- don't insult my intelligence.


No, we didn't expect it today, but its coming. Glad to see some are so thrilled that a named slayer remains free. Free to date and impregnate other women, free to sleep with other mens wives, free to verbally and mentally abuse women.

Its sick that some are so happy about this.

JMO

[trucrime]

I think you are reading things that aren't there. :no:
Please show me where and whenever I said I do not want justice in this case.
The smile was merely in reference to yet another prediction that did not come true.
Hope this helps.
:seeya:
Kat

No one predicts these things, seriously. Not one of the JDI's to my knowledge predicted he'd be indicted today. If you can prove that otherwise with a reference to someones post, that'd be great. Im sure people referenced thinking maybe it was a good time to do it, but never say today would actually be the day. IMO.

[trucrime]

No, we didn't expect it today, but its coming. Glad to see some are so thrilled that a named slayer remains free. Free to date and impregnate other women, free to sleep with other mens wives, free to verbally and mentally abuse women.

Its sick that some are so happy about this.

JMO

ITA. Its pathetic that some are happy. I have no doubt Jason is going to get his due. Maybe not this month, or next, but some day. IMO.

[Tia]

No one predicts these things, seriously. Not one of the JDI's to my knowledge predicted he'd be indicted today. If you can prove that otherwise with a reference to someones post, that'd be great. Im sure people referenced thinking maybe it was a good time to do it, but never say today would actually be the day. IMO.

No one predicted today.

[Kat4Eagles]

No one predicts these things, seriously.
<snipped> IMO.


Then, I guess I am the only one that was disappointed.
:(
Kat

[Tia]

ITA. Its pathetic that some are happy. I have no doubt Jason is going to get his due. Maybe not this month, or next, but some day. IMO.

Its going to happen. I just can't fathom that some get joy out of this.


JMO

[reborn]

Cooper murdered Nancy. He should have let her return to Canada. He made a very poor choice.


Cooper has been indicted for killing his wife. He has not been convicted.

[reborn]

No, we didn't expect it today, but its coming. Glad to see some are so thrilled that a named slayer remains free. Free to date and impregnate other women, free to sleep with other mens wives, free to verbally and mentally abuse women.

Its sick that some are so happy about this.

JMO


I can't see on what evidence you see an arrest coming? One may be coming but I don't think it will be for Jason Young. You act like Jason tied the other woman up. Seems if I remember correctly it was her that said she wanted his child. Some friend Michelle had. Why did Michelle pick friends that treated her this way? I've wondered about that. Wasn't this woman her maid of honor? I think Jason was used by this woman. I think she saw he was having problems with Michelle and she moved on him. It would have been easy for her to tell her dear friend Michelle that Jason made a move on her . Wonder why she didn't? I'm sick that every time a married man and woman have an affair its always the bad mans fault.

[Stellagant]

Then, I guess I am the only one that was disappointed.
:(
Kat

hey, count me in, pls. I'm realllllly disappointed there was no indictment handed down today.

[Stellagant]

I can't see on what evidence you see an arrest coming? One may be coming but I don't think it will be for Jason Young. You act like Jason tied the other woman up. Seems if I remember correctly it was her that said she wanted his child. Some friend Michelle had. Why did Michelle pick friends that treated her this way? I've wondered about that. Wasn't this woman her maid of honor? I think Jason was used by this woman. I think she saw he was having problems with Michelle and she moved on him. It would have been easy for her to tell her dear friend Michelle that Jason made a move on her . Wonder why she didn't? I'm sick that every time a married man and woman have an affair its always the bad mans fault.

Maybe she or Meredith did tell Michelle about the affair.

[bsatis]

I can't see on what evidence you see an arrest coming? One may be coming but I don't think it will be for Jason Young. You act like Jason tied the other woman up. Seems if I remember correctly it was her that said she wanted his child. Some friend Michelle had. Why did Michelle pick friends that treated her this way? I've wondered about that. Wasn't this woman her maid of honor? I think Jason was used by this woman. I think she saw he was having problems with Michelle and she moved on him. It would have been easy for her to tell her dear friend Michelle that Jason made a move on her . Wonder why she didn't? I'm sick that every time a married man and woman have an affair its always the bad mans fault.

Ok, so now it is MY's fault for having chosen MM as a friend? I can't type profanities on here, so I won't.

It takes two to tango...so BOTH JY and MM are at fault. JY does not get a free pass because you think MM lured him into it or whatever you are insinuating above. They are both creeps. For god's sake, why can't some people hold him responsible for his indiscretions?

And NO, none of this was MY's fault. Why continually try to blame things on the victim? There are other ways to resolve marital issues. Killing is not an appropriate one. I suppose that someone who gets hit by a stray drive-by bullet while sitting IN THEIR HOME is at fault for being in that chair at that time?

I feel like I need Seth Myer from SNL to do his REALLY segment (if anyone watches SNL)...

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I can't see on what evidence you see an arrest coming? One may be coming but I don't think it will be for Jason Young. You act like Jason tied the other woman up. Seems if I remember correctly it was her that said she wanted his child. Some friend Michelle had. Why did Michelle pick friends that treated her this way? I've wondered about that. Wasn't this woman her maid of honor? I think Jason was used by this woman. I think she saw he was having problems with Michelle and she moved on him. It would have been easy for her to tell her dear friend Michelle that Jason made a move on her . Wonder why she didn't? I'm sick that every time a married man and woman have an affair its always the bad mans fault.

So the affair is either Michelle Young's fault for not picking the right kind of friends or it's M.M.'s fault because she went after a weakened Jason.

WOW. Can I get one of those free passes that you are heaping on Jason. Imagine, being able to do anything you want and not being held accountable. Must be nice.

I guess the old saying is wrong. It only takes one person to tango. IMO:thumbdown:

[Barbara2]

So the affair is either Michelle Young's fault for not picking the right kind of friends or it's M.M.'s fault because she went after a weakened Jason.

WOW. Can I get one of those free passes that you are heaping on Jason. Imagine, being able to do anything you want and not being held accountable. Must be nice.

I guess the old saying is wrong. It only takes one person to tango. IMO:thumbdown:

Since MM wasn't the ONLY one, it sort of throws that theory down the drain anyway. IMO

[Tia]

I can't see on what evidence you see an arrest coming? One may be coming but I don't think it will be for Jason Young. You act like Jason tied the other woman up. Seems if I remember correctly it was her that said she wanted his child. Some friend Michelle had. Why did Michelle pick friends that treated her this way? I've wondered about that. Wasn't this woman her maid of honor? I think Jason was used by this woman. I think she saw he was having problems with Michelle and she moved on him. It would have been easy for her to tell her dear friend Michelle that Jason made a move on her . Wonder why she didn't? I'm sick that every time a married man and woman have an affair its always the bad mans fault.


Nothing like blaming the victim!!

[Tia]

So the affair is either Michelle Young's fault for not picking the right kind of friends or it's M.M.'s fault because she went after a weakened Jason.

WOW. Can I get one of those free passes that you are heaping on Jason. Imagine, being able to do anything you want and not being held accountable. Must be nice.

I guess the old saying is wrong. It only takes one person to tango. IMO:thumbdown:


Me too! NOTHING is his fault!

[5swab5]

Nothing like blaming the victim!!

Is there anything that Jason is responsible for? Is there anything that his supporters are willing to admit is his fault?

It's not his fault he flew to Florida on a different weekend than the one originally planned, one when he knew Steve would be away.

It's not his fault he slept with Michelle Money, at least twice.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted her 900 times the month before Michelle and Rylan's murder.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted Michelle Money 50 times on November 2nd.

It's not his fault the last phone call on Nov. 2nd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault the first phone call on Nov. 3rd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that there were 207 phone contacts between Michelle Money and him from Dec.18th 2006 and Jan. 25th 2007.

It's not his fault he had a rendezvous in Myrtle Beach with Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that an email to Michelle Money from one of his accounts says:

I feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but I do.

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but. I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time...

To deny Jason's culpability in the Michelle Money affair is beyond ridiculous. Must be nice to have such faithful, tho blind supporters. Hope they don't get near a cliff. :biggrinjester: MOO

[trucrime]

Then, I guess I am the only one that was disappointed.
:(
Kat

<snipped>
The smile was merely in reference to yet another prediction that did not come true.


Im confused, were you happy or dissapointed?

Also again, if you can point me to where anyone predicted yesterday would be the day he would be indicted, that'd be great. To my knowledge no one other than you says stuff like they've heard predictions about a certain date. IMO.

[trucrime]

Is there anything that Jason is responsible for? Is there anything that his supporters are willing to admit is his fault?

It's not his fault he flew to Florida on a different weekend than the one originally planned, one when he knew Steve would be away.

It's not his fault he slept with Michelle Money, at least twice.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted her 900 times the month before Michelle and Rylan's murder.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted Michelle Money 50 times on November 2nd.

It's not his fault the last phone call on Nov. 2nd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault the first phone call on Nov. 3rd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that there were 207 phone contacts between Michelle Money and him from Dec.18th 2006 and Jan. 25th 2007.

It's not his fault he had a rendezvous in Myrtle Beach with Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that an email to Michelle Money from one of his accounts says:

I feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but I do.

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but. I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time...

To deny Jason's culpability in the Michelle Money affair is beyond ridiculous. Must be nice to have such faithful, tho blind supporters. Hope they don't get near a cliff. :biggrinjester: MOO

Yeah or near Jason at all. Scary thinking a monster like Jason is on the streets. IMO.

[reborn]

Is there anything that Jason is responsible for? Is there anything that his supporters are willing to admit is his fault?

It's not his fault he flew to Florida on a different weekend than the one originally planned, one when he knew Steve would be away.

It's not his fault he slept with Michelle Money, at least twice.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted her 900 times the month before Michelle and Rylan's murder.

It's not his fault he phoned/texted Michelle Money 50 times on November 2nd.

It's not his fault the last phone call on Nov. 2nd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault the first phone call on Nov. 3rd was to Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that there were 207 phone contacts between Michelle Money and him from Dec.18th 2006 and Jan. 25th 2007.

It's not his fault he had a rendezvous in Myrtle Beach with Michelle Money.

It's not his fault that an email to Michelle Money from one of his accounts says:

I feel lucky just to know you, much less love you, but I do.

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but. I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time...

To deny Jason's culpability in the Michelle Money affair is beyond ridiculous. Must be nice to have such faithful, tho blind supporters. Hope they don't get near a cliff. :biggrinjester: MOO

Boy looks like a hornets nest. I merely asked if any one knew how Michelle picked her friends. Yes it takes two and Michelle's husband was one and her BEST friend was the other. I'm trying to get a grip on this situation. I've seen mention of people of money on here and other forums. I even saw where someone was berated for having of all things a gravel drive way. Makes me wonder if Michelle could have been friends with a rather snobbish group of people? I have wondered why the two didn't stay in a nice town house at least until it was paid for? Why the need for a big house with two mortgages on it? Who where they trying to impress? Was pressing debts a lot of their problems? Sorry I brought up a different subject. Feel free to go back over every thing that has been covered a zillion times.

[Tia]

Yeah or near Jason at all. Scary thinking a monster like Jason is on the streets. IMO.

Its more scary that some get giddy and excited that this monster is still walking the streets.

JMO

[janesdeaan]

Boy looks like a hornets nest. I merely asked if any one knew how Michelle picked her friends. Yes it takes two and Michelle's husband was one and her BEST friend was the other. I'm trying to get a grip on this situation. I've seen mention of people of money on here and other forums. I even saw where someone was berated for having of all things a gravel drive way. Makes me wonder if Michelle could have been friends with a rather snobbish group of people? I have wondered why the two didn't stay in a nice town house at least until it was paid for? Why the need for a big house with two mortgages on it? Who where they trying to impress? Was pressing debts a lot of their problems? Sorry I brought up a different subject. Feel free to go back over every thing that has been covered a zillion times.

Jason's adulterous behavior with Michelle Money does kinda resemble a mad, crazed HORNET I agree. As for Michelle knowing good friends from bad, I presume she did, but you can't see EVERYONE's true colors every time. We've all been fooled at least once in our lives, IMO. Didn't Michelle want a loving marriage with several kids ? Isn't that why she married Jason, seems like he probably knew what she wanted when he married her, huh ? That could be why they needed a larger home than the first home they had, I doubt ANYONE sane buys a home larger than they can afford in order to IMPRESS people ! That's a crazy idea, is that what you really think people do ? In real life ? LOL

[reborn]

Jason's adulterous behavior with Michelle Money does kinda resemble a mad, crazed HORNET I agree. As for Michelle knowing good friends from bad, I presume she did, but you can't see EVERYONE's true colors every time. We've all been fooled at least once in our lives, IMO. Didn't Michelle want a loving marriage with several kids ? Isn't that why she married Jason, seems like he probably knew what she wanted when he married her, huh ? That could be why they needed a larger home than the first home they had, I doubt ANYONE sane buys a home larger than they can afford in order to IMPRESS people ! That's a crazy idea, is that what you really think people do ? In real life ? LOL


I would hope people wouldn't be that shallow in real life . I finally found the dog and bird photo. Referenced by Jerry 50 post NO. 392 3/22/09 on IS. I wouldn't think people would be that shallow but a picture is worth a thousand words.

Mar 22 12:32 pm

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/33-vt134.html?start=800

Are these really adults ?

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/6-vt135.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125

[5swab5]

I would hope people wouldn't be that shallow in real life . I finally found the dog and bird photo. Referenced by Jerry 50 post NO. 392 3/22/09 on IS. I wouldn't think people would be that shallow but a picture is worth a thousand words.

Mar 22 12:32 pm

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/33-vt134.html?start=800

Are these really adults ?

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/6-vt135.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125

What is your obsession with that board? You must link it here more than any other thing. IF you like it so much, why don't you post there?

People come here to discuss the Michelle Young case, not other boards and posters on other boards.

I for one, would appreciate it if you would quit! MOO

[Tia]

What is your obsession with that board? You must link it here more than any other thing. IF you like it so much, why don't you post there?

People come here to discuss the Michelle Young case, not other boards and posters on other boards.

I for one, would appreciate it if you would quit! MOO


I would appreciate it too. I thought we weren't allowed to discuss other posters on this thread?

:no:


JMO

[reborn]

What is your obsession with that board? You must link it here more than any other thing. IF you like it so much, why don't you post there?

People come here to discuss the Michelle Young case, not other boards and posters on other boards.

I for one, would appreciate it if you would quit! MOO

Wrong. First time I ever linked it. What makes you think I don't post there?

[reborn]

I would appreciate it too. I thought we weren't allowed to discuss other posters on this thread?

:no:


JMO
Tia, It was just a little lesson in how shallow people can be. Sorry if it bothered you.

[reborn]

What is your obsession with that board? You must link it here more than any other thing. IF you like it so much, why don't you post there?

People come here to discuss the Michelle Young case, not other boards and posters on other boards.
I for one, would appreciate it if you would quit! MOO


I need to remind you it was Jerry50 that brought the dog and bird story to IS.

[Kat4Eagles]

Im confused, were you happy or dissapointed?

Also again, if you can point me to where anyone predicted yesterday would be the day he would be indicted, that'd be great. To my knowledge no one other than you says stuff like they've heard predictions about a certain date. IMO.


The word imminent has been used here so much that it has lost all meaning.

Predictions have been made here so much, they too have lost all credibility.

Why would I be happy that a killer or killers are walking around free almost 29 months later after Michelle's murder?

Real justice, to me, would have been an arrest that first weekend.
I am not much into believing justice delayed is justice denied.

So, if it doesn't bother you that the crime remains unsolved, that's cool!!

Me?? I just think someone should pay for it..........

Behind bars, off the streets, with all privledges taken away, and cuffs and in shackles.

But, hey, that's just me.!!

:shrug:

Kat

[reborn]

The word imminent has been used here so much that it has lost all meaning.

Predictions have been made here so much, they too have lost all credibility.

Why would I be happy that a killer or killers are walking around free almost 29 months later after Michelle's murder?

Real justice, to me, would have been an arrest that first weekend.
I am not much into believing justice delayed is justice denied.

So, if it doesn't bother you that the crime remains unsolved, that's cool!!

Me?? I just think someone should pay for it..........

Behind bars, off the streets, with all privledges taken away, and cuffs and in shackles.

But, hey, that's just me.!!

:shrug:

Kat


I feel the same way . But I want it to be the real killers . Yes Jason had an affair. But that does not equal murder. Neither does a meal at CB. Or walking toward an exit. He was also walking toward the stairs.

[Kat4Eagles]

Yeah or near Jason at all. Scary thinking a monster like Jason is on the streets. IMO.


You can't just think someone killed someone, you have to prove it.
You can't just tell other people you think someone killed someone, you still have to prove it.

So, when it gets down to anything happening in this case, the evidence is going to have to be 100% refutable, no matter who did it.

After almost 29 months, I would expect the proof to be there.
Wouldn't you?

Kat

[Tia]

Tia, It was just a little lesson in how shallow people can be. Sorry if it bothered you.

The only thing that bothers me about it is we have been told not to bring links from there over here or to talk about other posters.


JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I feel the same way . But I want it to be the real killers . Yes Jason had an affair. But that does not equal murder. Neither does a meal at CB. Or walking toward an exit. He was also walking toward the stairs.


Of course, I can think of a lot of words to describe Jason's treatment of Michelle, disgusting, deplorable, despicable, and just plain dumb.

Dumb because he knew that MM would be found out, that all his emails and texts would come to light.......and most of all that everyone would know he would be the one to benefit the most from the insurance money.

Dumb because you wouldn't turn down dinner with your wife and your friend and then stop somewhere an hour later @CB to pad your alibi.

If this was pre~med, Jason knew ahead of time, it was almost a 3 hour trip to Hillsville, you can take as much time off of it, as you want, but he still had to check in, register, etc.

And, here is the kicker, the guy is still around an hour after he checks in...!!
Didn't check in, and hit the road.
Nope, sticks around and is captured on video not once, but 2X!!

So, either Jason is either really, really brillant or dumb and just lucky.

Kat

[reborn]

Of course, I can think of a lot of words to describe Jason's treatment of Michelle, disgusting, deplorable, despicable, and just plain dumb.

Dumb because he knew that MM would be found out, that all his emails and texts would come to light.......and most of all that everyone would know he would be the one to benefit the most from the insurance money.

Dumb because you wouldn't turn down dinner with your wife and your friend and then stop somewhere an hour later @CB to pad your alibi.

If this was pre~med, Jason knew ahead of time, it was almost a 3 hour trip to Hillsville, you can take as much time off of it, as you want, but he still had to check in, register, etc.

And, here is the kicker, the guy is still around an hour after he checks in...!!
Didn't check in, and hit the road.
Nope, sticks around and is captured on video not once, but 2X!!

So, either Jason is either really, really brillant or dumb and just lucky.

Kat

Or Innocent.

[5swab5]

Tia, It was just a little lesson in how shallow people can be. Sorry if it bothered you.

THIS board is to discuss the Michelle Young case.

NOT other posters on other boards.

TIA!

[Kat4Eagles]

hey, count me in, pls. I'm realllllly disappointed there was no indictment handed down today.


So, it looks like the strategy of having CY away from Jason, so he can now be arrested, isn't all that either?

I never understand those who do not own up to what they say..:shrug:, do you?

I remember reading here, that this was part of a plan.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Or Innocent.


You just never know, do you?
He could be scared, covering for someone, or just hoping something could clear him.
So far, so good though.

Kat

[reborn]

You just never know, do you?
He could be scared, covering for someone, or just hoping something could clear him.
So far, so good though.

Kat


You sure could be right about being scared. With 2 sets of bloody foot prints could be 2 people were to have been killed. Maybe the killers didn't know Jason was gone.

[Kat4Eagles]

You sure could be right about being scared. With 2 sets of bloody foot prints could be 2 people were to have been killed. Maybe the killers didn't know Jason was gone.



Exactly, I remember old posts saying that the GA friend felt that they were being watched !!

I remember old posts that some people thought Jason never even left Raleigh that nite until after Michelle was dead.!!

That he stayed around, watching them through the windows, waiting for the GA friend to leave......!!

Clearly, that is not the case...but, the posters are gone now.

I have been wrong about so many things, but, have always owned up to them.

And, I will do the same if Jason is ever arrested.

Kat

[trucrime]

You can't just think someone killed someone, you have to prove it.
You can't just tell other people you think someone killed someone, you still have to prove it.

So, when it gets down to anything happening in this case, the evidence is going to have to be 100% refutable, no matter who did it.

After almost 29 months, I would expect the proof to be there.
Wouldn't you?

Kat

:wink: Im more than confident LE has not revealed all of their info they have against Jason Young. Why would they release all the evidence they have now? Makes no sense that they would. With each SW that's been released more and more info against Jason comes to light.

Im very aware just because you think someone is guilty does not make them so.

Also, most cases are tried on "REASONABLE DOUBT" therefore you dont need 100% proof one way or the other, if no eyewitness accounts are available.

Id expect LE to be working on the case still after all this time, and they still are. That's my expectation, that they work on it. We've already cited cases that have taken longer (than this case) to bring an arrest. If they weren't working on it, then I would be alarmed. IMO.

[trucrime]

You just never know, do you?
He could be scared, covering for someone, or just hoping something could clear him.
So far, so good though.

Kat

Yeah giving up primary physical custody of your daughter & getting a $15.5 million dollar wrongful death judgement on you makes so much sense. Well maybe it does to you, but not to me. IMO.

[trucrime]

So, it looks like the strategy of having CY away from Jason, so he can now be arrested, isn't all that either?

I never understand those who do not own up to what they say..:shrug:, do you?

I remember reading here, that this was part of a plan.

Kat

IMO the custody case was not a "strategy" to get him arrested Kat nor were there "predictions" that he would be arrested yesterday. The Fisher's wanted Cassidy away from Jason, who was clearly not so great of a parent (from the tone of his emails, adultery, etc), cant provide his own home for her, has no job, not to mention the $15.5 million dollar fine he just got - besides the fact that IMO he murdered Michelle & Rylan and is a dangerous person. They've been successful in their quest to get primary physical custody. They're now patiently awaiting LE to finish up the investigation. IMO.

[bsatis]

So, it looks like the strategy of having CY away from Jason, so he can now be arrested, isn't all that either?

I never understand those who do not own up to what they say..:shrug:, do you?

I remember reading here, that this was part of a plan.

Kat

I do remember people posting HOPING that JY would be arrested while Cassidy was away so as to spare her from seeing that.

NO ONE SAID IT WAS DEFINITELY GOING TO HAPPEN. But, I will gladly eat my words if you can provide ONE post where someone said that it was unequivocally going to happen. People have theories or hopes -- they don't always come to fruition. You know, like the posters that think that someday Meredith will get arrested for the murder.

So, no one has anything to own up to.

[Kat4Eagles]

Yeah giving up primary physical custody of your daughter & getting a $15.5 million dollar wrongful death judgement on you makes so much sense. Well maybe it does to you, but not to me. IMO.

Even if he is scared to talk?
We just don't know the reasoning , if any, behind those decisions.
I can't stick up or defend Jason for not fighting for CY, that was big to me......and, I admitted it..

The WDS, to me, was not that important to him, as I don't think the murder had to do with the insurance money.
I can't stick up or defend Jason for the way he talked to Michelle or treated her either, and, I admitted that too.
I would have thrown him and his stuff onto the lawn.......
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

:wink: Im more than confident LE has not revealed all of their info they have against Jason Young. Why would they release all the evidence they have now? Makes no sense that they would. With each SW that's been released more and more info against Jason comes to light.

Im very aware just because you think someone is guilty does not make them so.

Also, most cases are tried on "REASONABLE DOUBT" therefore you dont need 100% proof one way or the other, if no eyewitness accounts are available.

Id expect LE to be working on the case still after all this time, and they still are. That's my expectation, that they work on it. We've already cited cases that have taken longer (than this case) to bring an arrest. If they weren't working on it, then I would be alarmed. IMO.


I would think that they have more, I would hope that they have more, but then even that would scare me.!!
Cause if they had more, and there was still no arrest, utoh!!

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

<snipped>
So, no one has anything to own up to.


Just me, huh?

:biggrin:

Kat

[bsatis]

Just me, huh?

:biggrin:

Kat

I never told you had to own up to anything. Thoughts and opinions are fine.

If you didn't already do it on occasion, I would ask you to own up to the fact that JY is not turning out to be the end all be all (murder issue aside). But, it has been my observation that you hold on to hope that he has some secret redeeming quality that will make his character shine and wipe the slate clean. Either that, or you yourself do not believe what you type at times. If you are holding out for that quality, that makes me sad. It would just mean that JY has duped one more person in his lifetime.

[trucrime]

I do remember people posting HOPING that JY would be arrested while Cassidy was away so as to spare her from seeing that.

NO ONE SAID IT WAS DEFINITELY GOING TO HAPPEN. But, I will gladly eat my words if you can provide ONE post where someone said that it was unequivocally going to happen. People have theories or hopes -- they don't always come to fruition. You know, like the posters that think that someday Meredith will get arrested for the murder.

So, no one has anything to own up to.


I agree, no one has anything to own up to - because no one predicted yesterday would be the actual date he'd be arrested. Although it seems nearly like bait to me without proof of a post from someone. IMO.

[trucrime]

I would think that they have more, I would hope that they have more, but then even that would scare me.!!
Cause if they had more, and there was still no arrest, utoh!!

Kat

Im sure they are still working on it. IMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

Im sure they are still working on it. IMO.


So, you wouldn't agree , after 29 long, long months, they might be having some kind of problem?
:shrug:

Kat

[Stellagant]

So, you wouldn't agree , after 29 long, long months, they might be having some kind of problem?
:shrug:

Kat

well, d'oh! Has to be :laugh:the understatement of all time.

[5swab5]

well, d'oh! Has to be :laugh:the understatement of all time.

If they had arrested the slayer on Nov.3rd 2006 like I wanted them to, some would be screaming rush to judgment. Wake County will arrest Jason when they are good and ready, might as well get use to the idea. MOO

[Cardinal]

Even if he is scared to talk?
We just don't know the reasoning , if any, behind those decisions.
I can't stick up or defend Jason for not fighting for CY, that was big to me......and, I admitted it..

The WDS, to me, was not that important to him, as I don't think the murder had to do with the insurance money.
I can't stick up or defend Jason for the way he talked to Michelle or treated her either, and, I admitted that too.
I would have thrown him and his stuff onto the lawn.......
Kat

So would I, Kat! Well, actually, I may have thrown him on the lawn and donated all his stuff to Goodwill. :D

[Cardinal]

So, you wouldn't agree , after 29 long, long months, they might be having some kind of problem?
:shrug:

Kat

Something is definitely a hold up. Spivey has made it clear he thinks Jason killed Michelle, and I still believe that reflects the opinion of the entire WCSO.

Wasn't there a quote ffrom someone (Cummings?) last week that the DA would move when they had everything they thought they were going to get?

[Barbara2]

Something is definitely a hold up. Spivey has made it clear he thinks Jason killed Michelle, and I still believe that reflects the opinion of the entire WCSO.

Wasn't there a quote ffrom someone (Cummings?) last week that the DA would move when they had everything they thought they were going to get?

I'm not so sure that "something" is the hold up. I think we have a very, VERY conservative DA. This is the same DA in the Miller case who waited for a confession of sorts before he would move for an arrest. I think he has a very solid case but he wants it BEYOND solid. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=Stellagant;12933159]

well, d'oh! Has to be :laugh:the understatement of all time.[/QUOTE



Just try to get someone to admit it though.......!!

Kat

[Cardinal]

I'm not so sure that "something" is the hold up. I think we have a very, VERY conservative DA. This is the same DA in the Miller case who waited for a confession of sorts before he would move for an arrest. I think he has a very solid case but he wants it BEYOND solid. IMO

I agree, Barbara. Willoughby is indeed very cautious. But I still think they're waiting for some evidence/analysis to come back. Although I can't imagine what it is.

[Barbara2]

I agree, Barbara. Willoughby is indeed very cautious. But I still think they're waiting for some evidence/analysis to come back. Although I can't imagine what it is.

I'm afraid he's waiting for a confession. :sad:

[Kat4Eagles]

Something is definitely a hold up. Spivey has made it clear he thinks Jason killed Michelle, and I still believe that reflects the opinion of the entire WCSO.

Wasn't there a quote ffrom someone (Cummings?) last week that the DA would move when they had everything they thought they were going to get?


Yes, but then there was a line in there somewhere that also said they would not say when or whether an arrest would be made.

That was confusing.

I will be so glad when this is over......I think some of the posters that left because nothing much was going on, were smart!!

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

So would I, Kat! Well, actually, I may have thrown him on the lawn and donated all his stuff to Goodwill. :D


Me too, zero tolerance here when it concerns being unfaithful or even thinking about it!!

Do you think Michelle really loved Jason that much to forgive him, or that she didn't know?

I guess I am not seeing things the way she did.
:(
Kat

[Cardinal]

I'm afraid he's waiting for a confession. :sad:

Then I'm afraid it's going to be a loooong wait. :sad:

[Cardinal]

Me too, zero tolerance here when it concerns being unfaithful or even thinking about it!!

Do you think Michelle really loved Jason that much to forgive him, or that she didn't know?

I guess I am not seeing things the way she did.
:(
Kat

I'm not sure, Kat. I mean, wouldn't you have known at some point, even if you tried to stay in denial? I think maybe she tried to keep her marriage together for as long as she could, until she reached her limit.

Goodnight :seeya:

[Barbara2]

Then I'm afraid it's going to be a loooong wait. :sad:

He didn't exactly get a confession in the Miller case. It was an indirect, "voice from the dead" kind of confession. He didn't need it. He had all the evidence he needed within the first few weeks of the death but he kept waiting for that "one more piece". This case will result in a conviction with the evidence collected in the first few weeks of Michelle's death, IMO. Nothing else is needed.

[Kat4Eagles]

He didn't exactly get a confession in the Miller case. It was an indirect, "voice from the dead" kind of confession. He didn't need it. He had all the evidence he needed within the first few weeks of the death but he kept waiting for that "one more piece". This case will result in a conviction with the evidence collected in the first few weeks of Michelle's death, IMO. Nothing else is needed.

They must have needed more, or they would not have waited in the Miller case for anything......:rolleyes:
Plus, didn't she take a plea and only got 25 years?
Doesn't sound like they would do that, if they didn't have to.

Kat

[reborn]

He didn't exactly get a confession in the Miller case. It was an indirect, "voice from the dead" kind of confession. He didn't need it. He had all the evidence he needed within the first few weeks of the death but he kept waiting for that "one more piece". This case will result in a conviction with the evidence collected in the first few weeks of Michelle's death, IMO. Nothing else is needed.

If that is true then shame on the DA in Wake County NC. Can you imagine what the last 2 years has cost Wake County? If the DA has sat on convicting evidence and not acted he should be asked to resign. IMO

[Barbara2]

If that is true then shame on the DA in Wake County NC. Can you imagine what the last 2 years has cost Wake County? If the DA has sat on convicting evidence and not acted he should be asked to resign. IMO

We only partially agree. I agree with the shame on him part but not on the resignation. I think he's elected(?) and if so, obviously the voters of Wake County like the conservative approach. I'm guessing it saves them more money in the long run because when he takes a case to the Grand Jury, it is most likely a conviction. I don't think they take into consideration the impatient posters on a message board.

[Kat4Eagles]

If that is true then shame on the DA in Wake County NC. Can you imagine what the last 2 years has cost Wake County? If the DA has sat on convicting evidence and not acted he should be asked to resign. IMO

Just to get back to the Miller case from NC for a second, a case I never heard of, check this out:

*In Nov 2005, after a long and complicated hearing,Kontz (Miller) pleaded guilty to 2nd degree murder.

*Willoughby told Judge Donald Stevens, "We reviewed the evidence.
The state does not intend to seek the DP."

*Stephens asked him why.

"There could be evidence which could be considered aggravating circumstances, but I have made the decison not to seek the DP
based on my review of the evidence", says Willoughby.

*Sources: News & Observer

So, how strong of a case was that then?

And, just to stay on topic, Colin Willoughby is the same DA in this case, and Judge Stephens has been the Judge signing off on the warrants in this one, too.

Wow.
25 years and she walks, unreal.
:(

ETA:
If someone is eventually arrested for the murder of Michelle Young and only receives a 25 year sentence, how satisfied or dis~satisfied would you be?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

"When the law enforcement side and the district attorney's side are more satisfied that we've gotten everything we're going to get, I'm sure there'll be an indictment" against Jason Young, Wake County Detective R.C. Spivey III "

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/michelle_young/story/1445988.html

When the SW's and interviews stop, the killer will finally be brought to justice.:wink:

I guess it helps to keep saying that!!
But, really the fact remains they still don't have enough, and all s/w's for emails and interviews should have been completed ages and ages ago...
And,yet, another GJ week passes by and nothing happens.
:wink:
Kat

[Stellagant]

He didn't exactly get a confession in the Miller case. It was an indirect, "voice from the dead" kind of confession. He didn't need it. He had all the evidence he needed within the first few weeks of the death but he kept waiting for that "one more piece". This case will result in a conviction with the evidence collected in the first few weeks of Michelle's death, IMO. Nothing else is needed.

Yes, the DA did get a confession from Ann Miller by way of Derril Willard to Gammon, but you are misrepresenting that case when you say the DA had all the evidence he needed in the first weeks.

The DA had nothing connecting Ann Miller to arsenic (means)

In the Young case, the DA obviously can't place Young at the murder scene (opportunity)

A DA must prove both "opportunity" and "means."

"He told me that he met Ann one day in a parking lot… Ann was crying. And that she admitted to him that while Eric was in the hospital she took a syringe that contained a substance and injected it into his IV," Gammon explains. "Derril asked her, 'Why did you do this?' And she said 'I just, I don’t know why I did it."

The D.A. could now put the arsenic that killed Eric Miller in Ann's hands. As for Derril Willard, the judge revealed that Derril told his attorney that he never tried to kill Eric.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/12/48hours/main4861528_page5.shtml

[gbmy]

I guess it helps to keep saying that!!
But, really the fact remains they still don't have enough, and all s/w's for emails and interviews should have been completed ages and ages ago...
And,yet, another GJ week passes by and nothing happens.
:wink:
Kat
Yes Kat, and that remains the stubborn fact that simply can not be disputed. Jason Young has not been ruled guilty by a jury of 12. Jason Young has not even been arrested. He remains a free citizen.

To be fair, on the flip side, a civil judge believes he killed his wife and henced ruled that way. Although, from the perspective of a criminal offense, it was also made very clear that this ruling had absolutely no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

And the days continue to go by. Some say they already have 'enough' evidence and are waiting for a confession. Others say that they are 'oh so close' and an arrest is imminent. All just opinions. This was the same discussion had on this board last year. In the absence of new information, it'll be the same discussion in 2010, 2011, 2020, perhaps even beyond. And, whoever did this to Michelle will approach the end of their life here on earth.......And then what kind of justice will have been served by then?

[reborn]

Yes Kat, and that remains the stubborn fact that simply can not be disputed. Jason Young has not been ruled guilty by a jury of 12. Jason Young has not even been arrested. He remains a free citizen.

To be fair, on the flip side, a civil judge believes he killed his wife and henced ruled that way. Although, from the perspective of a criminal offense, it was also made very clear that this ruling had absolutely no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

And the days continue to go by. Some say they already have 'enough' evidence and are waiting for a confession. Others say that they are 'oh so close' and an arrest is imminent. All just opinions. This was the same discussion had on this board last year. In the absence of new information, it'll be the same discussion in 2010, 2011, 2020, perhaps even beyond. And, whoever did this to Michelle will approach the end of their life here on earth.......And then what kind of justice will have been served by then?


We know that one det. sealed the civil suit for the Fishers. This is the same det. that has said under oath he thinks Jason killed Michelle. If this det. is so sure of this where is his evidence? I think he went into this with blinders on and refuses to remove them. In the mean time Cassie is ran twice a month from home to home for the rest of her child hood. She loses all the way around. She lost her mother and now her father. My opinion is the same as yours . This case will never see closer. I blame LE for not looking at others beside Jason. Some blame Jason for being smart enough to pull it off. I don't believe we will ever see justice for Michelle?

[gbmy]

We know that one det. sealed the civil suit for the Fishers. This is the same det. that has said under oath he thinks Jason killed Michelle. If this det. is so sure of this where is his evidence? I think he went into this with blinders on and refuses to remove them. In the mean time Cassie is ran twice a month from home to home for the rest of her child hood. She loses all the way around. She lost her mother and now her father. My opinion is the same as yours . This case will never see closer. I blame LE for not looking at others beside Jason. Some blame Jason for being smart enough to pull it off. I don't believe we will ever see justice for Michelle?

Based on information in the public domain, LE has clearly invested a lot of their limited resources investigating Jason. As many have said, as the spouse, this is statistically expected. I just hope and pray that they don't have the spouse must've done it' blinders on at the expense of investing the appropriate amount of time looking elsewhere. I don't think they are dumb enough to consciously do this. But, I do think that the longer you find yourself 'invested' in 1 thing before reaping the return on that investment, the harder it is to 'let go' and re-focus on other potential possibilities. It's akin to an investor who buys a stock and continues to hold it because he is just 'certain' he made the right decision......only to ride that stock right into bankruptcy.

[Tia]

We know that one det. sealed the civil suit for the Fishers. This is the same det. that has said under oath he thinks Jason killed Michelle. If this det. is so sure of this where is his evidence? I think he went into this with blinders on and refuses to remove them. In the mean time Cassie is ran twice a month from home to home for the rest of her child hood. She loses all the way around. She lost her mother and now her father. My opinion is the same as yours . This case will never see closer. I blame LE for not looking at others beside Jason. Some blame Jason for being smart enough to pull it off. I don't believe we will ever see justice for Michelle?

If Jason would have divorced Michelle, Cassidy would be doing the same thing. Its safe to say, with Jason's behavior, affairs, the way he treated Michelle, etc.......that divorce would have eventually occured.

And what you keep forgetting is that Jason LET Cassidy go. Blame him, not the investigating detective!

JMO

[trucrime]

If Jason would have divorced Michelle, Cassidy would be doing the same thing. Its safe to say, with Jason's behavior, affairs, the way he treated Michelle, etc.......that divorce would have eventually occured.

And what you keep forgetting is that Jason LET Cassidy go. Blame him, not the investigating detective!

JMO



ITA. Jason on his own gave up primary physical custody of Cassidy and joint legal custody. He did not try to retain full physical/legal custody at all. That's no one else's fault but Jason Young.

Also as you're aware that "behavior" additionally included beer buzzes watching his daughter at the pool, abusive behavior to Michelle with emails saying things like "I could kill u", panties in the bed, he may have very well have had other affairs as well. And this is what we know today, its my guess LE has other damaging info about him that's not been made public yet. IMO.

[Leanne Weich]

If one takes into consideration what we do know about JY (especially his reaction to Cassie's accident when she wet herself - in his own words), I fail to see how anyone can think she would have been better off with him and totally isolated from her maternal family. As Tia, I think it was mentioned, she will be living the life she probably would have once Jason and Michelle divorced (which I have no doubt would have ultimately occurred). Millions of children come from divorced homes and adjust well and live to be successful, confident, adults. There is no reason to think the same will not be the case with Cassie - although if her father is tried and convicted for the murder of her mom, who knows how that will affect her?

[reborn]

ITA. Jason on his own gave up primary physical custody of Cassidy and joint legal custody. He did not try to retain full physical/legal custody at all. That's no one else's fault but Jason Young.

Also as you're aware that "behavior" additionally included beer buzzes watching his daughter at the pool, abusive behavior to Michelle with emails saying things like "I could kill u", panties in the bed, he may have very well have had other affairs as well. And this is what we know today, its my guess LE has other damaging info about him that's not been made public yet. IMO.


Yes Jason gave up his child. That doesn't make me proud of him. But I'm not walking in his shoes . I don't know what I might do if someone was determined to prove I did something I didn't do. I am going on the assumption that Jason didn't kill Michelle. I'm not basing my finding on bits and pieces of emails or what someone said happened 3 years before. I just haven't seen the evidence that he left that motel and drove back to Raleigh. I can't see how he could have done that and been in Wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. Combine that with a clean child in a bloody room alone it just doesn't make sense . Some of you think the child was drugged. Did the child just by some miracle wake up the moment Meredith walked into the room? She was wide awake during that long 911 call and very verbal. She sure didn't sound like she had been drugged. LE has said from day 1 this is a complicated case and I can sure see why. I think Jason feels that if he says one wrong word to LE he is a goner. I think he is hoping and probably praying the real killers of Michelle will be found. Maybe he has suspicions maybe not but as I said I don't walk in his shoes . Until I do I will leave the judging to someone else.

[Doorbell]

Yes Jason gave up his child. That doesn't make me proud of him. But I'm not walking in his shoes . I don't know what I might do if someone was determined to prove I did something I didn't do. I am going on the assumption that Jason didn't kill Michelle. I'm not basing my finding on bits and pieces of emails or what someone said happened 3 years before. I just haven't seen the evidence that he left that motel and drove back to Raleigh. I can't see how he could have done that and been in Wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. Combine that with a clean child in a bloody room alone it just doesn't make sense . Some of you think the child was drugged. Did the child just by some miracle wake up the moment Meredith walked into the room? She was wide awake during that long 911 call and very verbal. She sure didn't sound like she had been drugged. LE has said from day 1 this is a complicated case and I can sure see why. I think Jason feels that if he says one wrong word to LE he is a goner. I think he is hoping and probably praying the real killers of Michelle will be found. Maybe he has suspicions maybe not but as I said I don't walk in his shoes . Until I do I will leave the judging to someone else.

You leave the judging of Jason to someone else, but are ready and willing to take on the task of judging Meredith.

Why don't you try assuming she is innocent and walking a mile in her shoes, too?

[Stellagant]

If one takes into consideration what we do know about JY (especially his reaction to Cassie's accident when she wet herself - in his own words), I fail to see how anyone can think she would have been better off with him and totally isolated from her maternal family. As Tia, I think it was mentioned, she will be living the life she probably would have once Jason and Michelle divorced (which I have no doubt would have ultimately occurred). Millions of children come from divorced homes and adjust well and live to be successful, confident, adults. There is no reason to think the same will not be the case with Cassie - although if her father is tried and convicted for the murder of her mom, who knows how that will affect her?

The fact is, Michelle Young is dead and Meredith Fisher is not Michelle Young. Comparing this case to a situation with divorced parents is an insult to Cassidy and it is an insult to Michelle. Some of you really have taken a break from reality if you think a never married, childess third-party raising Cassidy Young is in her best interest rather than in a home shared by her parent and grandparents. Obviously, Jason doesn't mind Cassidy visiting her aunt but I doubt the permanent change in physical custody takes place. I think the child will have a voice in the matter.

[Stellagant]

Yes Jason gave up his child. That doesn't make me proud of him. But I'm not walking in his shoes . I don't know what I might do if someone was determined to prove I did something I didn't do. I am going on the assumption that Jason didn't kill Michelle. I'm not basing my finding on bits and pieces of emails or what someone said happened 3 years before. I just haven't seen the evidence that he left that motel and drove back to Raleigh. I can't see how he could have done that and been in Wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. Combine that with a clean child in a bloody room alone it just doesn't make sense . Some of you think the child was drugged. Did the child just by some miracle wake up the moment Meredith walked into the room? She was wide awake during that long 911 call and very verbal. She sure didn't sound like she had been drugged. LE has said from day 1 this is a complicated case and I can sure see why. I think Jason feels that if he says one wrong word to LE he is a goner. I think he is hoping and probably praying the real killers of Michelle will be found. Maybe he has suspicions maybe not but as I said I don't walk in his shoes . Until I do I will leave the judging to someone else.

Jason hasn't given up physical custody of his child just yet. There is a transition period. Some children can't handle the transition and the court must revisit the decision and do what is in the child's best interest. I believe that will happen in this case.

[Tia]

The fact is, Michelle Young is dead and Meredith Fisher is not Michelle Young. Comparing this case to a situation with divorced parents is an insult to Cassidy and it is an insult to Michelle. Some of you really have taken a break from reality if you think a never married, childess third-party raising Cassidy Young is in her best interest rather than in a home shared by her parent and grandparents. Obviously, Jason doesn't mind Cassidy visiting her aunt but I doubt the permanent change in physical custody takes place. I think the child will have a voice in the matter.


You are right, Jason Young, IMO murdered Michelle Young. He took Cassidy's mommy from her, so all she has are her aunt and grandma, not the same as her mom.

IMO, he will be arrested for Michelle's murder and Meredith will become Cassidy's custodial parent.

JMO

[Doorbell]

The fact is, Michelle Young is dead and Meredith Fisher is not Michelle Young. Comparing this case to a situation with divorced parents is an insult to Cassidy and it is an insult to Michelle. Some of you really have taken a break from reality if you think a never married, childess third-party raising Cassidy Young is in her best interest rather than in a home shared by her parent and grandparents. Obviously, Jason doesn't mind Cassidy visiting her aunt but I doubt the permanent change in physical custody takes place. I think the child will have a voice in the matter.

Jason agreed. It has been stated time and time again on this board that Jason is the one with the right to say who interacts with his daughter, and when, and how. Well, Jason has signed the papers giving his CONSENT to Meredith being Cassidy's primary care giver.

So now you know better than Cassidy's father?

IMO

[Stellagant]

You leave the judging of Jason to someone else, but are ready and willing to take on the task of judging Meredith.

Why don't you try assuming she is innocent and walking a mile in her shoes, too?

It's an unsolved case. imo, Meredith has motive, means and opportunity.

I can't assume Meredith is innocent after listening to her 911 call, knowing of her inconsistent statements made to police or the fact that the child was likely taken from the home after the murder or the fact that apparently Michelle designated someone other than Meredith to care for her child in the event she and Jason were unable. That's motive. The means could have been any number of household items. What was Meredith's alibi?

[Doorbell]

Jason hasn't given up physical custody of his child just yet. There is a transition period. Some children can't handle the transition and the court must revisit the decision and do what is in the child's best interest. I believe that will happen in this case.

Upon what do your base your belief?

[Stellagant]

Jason agreed. It has been stated time and time again on this board that Jason is the one with the right to say who interacts with his daughter, and when, and how. Well, Jason has signed the papers giving his CONSENT to Meredith being Cassidy's primary care giver.

So now you know better than Cassidy's father?

IMO

Jason signed those papers with no idea how Cassidy would react.

[Stellagant]

Upon what do your base your belief?

My personal knowledge, education, training and experience. You?

[Doorbell]

Jason signed those papers with no idea how Cassidy would react.

Why, as her father, did he have no idea of how she would "react?"

And how do you know how she will "react?"

[reborn]

You leave the judging of Jason to someone else, but are ready and willing to take on the task of judging Meredith.

Why don't you try assuming she is innocent and walking a mile in her shoes, too?

I don't assume she killed Michelle. I merely look at what evidence that was presented in the warrants. I am puzzled as to why she told several different stories . I'm no more mystified about the car keys than LE were. Maybe they still are I don't know. As the warrant said the easiest way to keep Cassie clean was to have removed her from the scene. Thats what I think happened.

[Doorbell]

My personal knowledge, education, training and experience. You?

Upon what, relevant to this case, do you base your belief?

We all have personal knowledge, though neither of us knows the family in question. We all have education, training and experience. Yet, we reach different conclusions.

Why do you think that Cassidy will neither welcome nor tolerate the transition?

[Doorbell]

I don't assume she killed Michelle. I merely look at what evidence that was presented in the warrants. I am puzzled as to why she told several different stories . I'm no more mystified about the car keys than LE were. Maybe they still are I don't know. As the warrant said the easiest way to keep Cassie clean was to have removed her from the scene. Thats what I think happened.

The twenty warrants that are for the search of property, both physical and electronic, of Jason Young?

[janesdeaan]

We know that one det. sealed the civil suit for the Fishers. This is the same det. that has said under oath he thinks Jason killed Michelle. If this det. is so sure of this where is his evidence? I think he went into this with blinders on and refuses to remove them. In the mean time Cassie is ran twice a month from home to home for the rest of her child hood. She loses all the way around. She lost her mother and now her father. My opinion is the same as yours . This case will never see closer. I blame LE for not looking at others beside Jason. Some blame Jason for being smart enough to pull it off. I don't believe we will ever see justice for Michelle?

I really do not see where you get that Cassidy is going from home to home twice a month for the rest of her childhood. She will be living with her aunt for the most part. That will be her home. Her dad gets to visit with her 4 days a month and a few other days a year and that's it. Her dad came up with this arrangement along with the Fishers, it was as much his plan as theirs. I am sure they had Cassidy's best interest in mind, so Cassidy does NOT lose all the way around. She GAINS finally, she gets her mom's side of the family BACK into her life where they should always be. What she lost was her mother, and that can never be regained, but her Grandmother Fisher and her Aunt Meredith will always be there with her and for her, and she'll see her dad from time to time (these are her dad's wishes, who knows why he would give up all that time with her, but he did). I disagree with your opinion that there will never be justice for Michelle, there has been some justice already, and more to come, according to LE.

[janesdeaan]

So, you wouldn't agree , after 29 long, long months, they might be having some kind of problem?
:shrug:

Kat

Problem ? No, they have a murder to thoroughly investigate, and that is what they have recently affirmed they are doing. LE also has said they are close to an arrest, they have to be sure they have all the evidence they are going to be able to gather and then, Jason Young will be indicted. Didn't you read the latest articles stating these facts ?

[Tia]

Jason signed those papers with no idea how Cassidy would react.


:confused:

JASON signed the papers, there is no one else to blame.

I'd be a little more concerned about how Cassidy is going to react when she learns her father murdered her mother.

But I guess Jason had no idea how she would react to that either.

JMO

[5swab5]

(snipped)In the absence of new information, it'll be the same discussion in 2010, 2011, 2020, perhaps even beyond. And, whoever did this to Michelle will approach the end of their life here on earth.......And then what kind of justice will have been served by then?

I'm willing to bet if the slayer hasn't been executed, he will at least have been behind bars WAY ahead of your hopeful predictions.

Michelle and Rylan deserve justice. It not a game about how long their slayer can remain free. It is an involved process that makes sure, once arrested, he spends the rest of his natural life in the confines of a 6x9 cell, or worse. MOO

[5swab5]

The fact is, Michelle Young is dead and Meredith Fisher is not Michelle Young. Comparing this case to a situation with divorced parents is an insult to Cassidy and it is an insult to Michelle. Some of you really have taken a break from reality if you think a never married, childess third-party raising Cassidy Young is in her best interest rather than in a home shared by her parent and grandparents. Obviously, Jason doesn't mind Cassidy visiting her aunt but I doubt the permanent change in physical custody takes place. I think the child will have a voice in the matter.

Anything is preferable to having a father that can't accomplish the simplest of tasks without a brewski in one hand and a phone in the other, so his can text his married girlfriends around the clock. And at a pool yet.

Last time I checked, Jason hasn't passed any parenting classes. Some are born parents, Meredith certainly shows more qualities than Jason...which would be NONE. MOO

[gbmy]

I'm willing to bet if the slayer hasn't been executed, he will at least have been behind bars WAY ahead of your hopeful predictions.

Michelle and Rylan deserve justice. It not a game about how long their slayer can remain free. It is an involved process that makes sure, once arrested, he spends the rest of his natural life in the confines of a 6x9 cell, or worse. MOO
Ok, I respect the fact that you think Jason will be behind bars earlier than 2020. My point was that if he wasn't, and in the absence of much new information, the same people on this board will likely be having similar discussions. Speaking for yourself only, do you agree with that?

I find it reprehensible for anyone to view this as or even think about this being a game to see how long the true killer can remain free. As with an investor who is married to a stock, it is anything but a game when he finds his investment worthless and must decide on his next investment.

[Jester]

Based on information in the public domain, LE has clearly invested a lot of their limited resources investigating Jason. As many have said, as the spouse, this is statistically expected. I just hope and pray that they don't have the spouse must've done it' blinders on at the expense of investing the appropriate amount of time looking elsewhere. I don't think they are dumb enough to consciously do this. But, I do think that the longer you find yourself 'invested' in 1 thing before reaping the return on that investment, the harder it is to 'let go' and re-focus on other potential possibilities. It's akin to an investor who buys a stock and continues to hold it because he is just 'certain' he made the right decision......only to ride that stock right into bankruptcy.

Why would you think that the police are wearing blinders? Wasn't it just a week ago that more search warrants were released, and didn't that new information confirm what was already suspected: that Jason was busy with two girlfriends besides his wife shortly before she was suspiciously murdered? This, in itself, means little, but combined with evidence that has been discovered over the past two years, confirms motive. Bit by bit it will come together. The police keep looking to eliminate Jason as a suspect, but everywhere they look leads back to him. It would have been great for Jason if Jason's relationship with CA Sowerby could be described as platonic, but there's nothing to suggest that.

[Jester]

Yes Jason gave up his child. That doesn't make me proud of him. But I'm not walking in his shoes . I don't know what I might do if someone was determined to prove I did something I didn't do. I am going on the assumption that Jason didn't kill Michelle. I'm not basing my finding on bits and pieces of emails or what someone said happened 3 years before. I just haven't seen the evidence that he left that motel and drove back to Raleigh. I can't see how he could have done that and been in Wytheville Va. at 7:40 in the morning. Combine that with a clean child in a bloody room alone it just doesn't make sense . Some of you think the child was drugged. Did the child just by some miracle wake up the moment Meredith walked into the room? She was wide awake during that long 911 call and very verbal. She sure didn't sound like she had been drugged. LE has said from day 1 this is a complicated case and I can sure see why. I think Jason feels that if he says one wrong word to LE he is a goner. I think he is hoping and probably praying the real killers of Michelle will be found. Maybe he has suspicions maybe not but as I said I don't walk in his shoes . Until I do I will leave the judging to someone else.

What makes you think anyone is determined to prove Jason did something wrong? The police are trying to solve a murder, and all evidence points to Jason ... sad, but true.

[Jester]

Jason hasn't given up physical custody of his child just yet. There is a transition period. Some children can't handle the transition and the court must revisit the decision and do what is in the child's best interest. I believe that will happen in this case.

Jason's consent order will not be revisited,

[Jester]

Jason signed those papers with no idea how Cassidy would react.

So what. That changes nothing.

[reborn]

Jason's consent order will not be revisited,


I hope you are wrong. I hope if the real killers are ever found Jason can get his life back. In the mean time I would beware that it only takes 2 women, a det. and a judge in Wake Co. NC to have a person declared a slayer and their child taken from them. I would think instead of being joyous this would make a lot of people nervous. I don't know if any civil judge has ever taken it upon themselves to convict a man that a criminal judge doesn't have the evidence to convict?

[reborn]

Anything is preferable to having a father that can't accomplish the simplest of tasks without a brewski in one hand and a phone in the other, so his can text his married girlfriends around the clock. And at a pool yet.

Last time I checked, Jason hasn't passed any parenting classes. Some are born parents, Meredith certainly shows more qualities than Jason...which would be NONE. MOO

I found Meredith's resume. I believe this was written when Michelle was expecting Cassie.

http://mixie118.livejournal.com/


http://mixie118.livejournal.com/profile

[Cardinal]

~snipped~

I'm not basing my finding on bits and pieces of emails or what someone said happened 3 years before.

Didn't you just do exactly that, in your post above?

[5swab5]

Ok, I respect the fact that you think Jason will be behind bars earlier than 2020. My point was that if he wasn't, and in the absence of much new information, the same people on this board will likely be having similar discussions. Speaking for yourself only, do you agree with that?(snip)

You are asking me to postulate on a hypothetical I deem outside the realm of probability. Much like the question, What would happen if a frog had wings? Some might maintain that the frog would fly, I say he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hopped. But since it isn't ever going to happen and no one can know the correct answer, I'm not willing to waste time worrying about it.

I have been here since day one, and until the slayer is behind bars I will not rest. Michelle and Rylan deserve justice and their slayer deserves all the contempt, wrath and punishment that this world and the next can mete out. IMO

[5swab5]

I found Meredith's resume. I believe this was written when Michelle was expecting Cassie. (snip)

I didn't look at the links, but if what you are saying is true that makes those entries 5 years old, at least. What's your point? Couldn't you find anything from Meredith's High School days, or perhaps kindergarten?

How about something within recent memory that reflects on either of the parties involved in Cassidy's custody?

Jason's reaction when Cassidy had an accident is well documented, as is Jason's use of watered down ADULT meds for her. Do you need a link to Jason trolling on the Internet, using Cassidy as date bait? I'm sure I can find it for you.

You can find the links for the 20 SWs, Michelle's autopsy report, the Civil decision declaring him the slayer and the 15+ million dollar judgement @ WRAL.com

MOO

[5swab5]

Didn't you just do exactly that, in your post above?

Good Catch! Funny how that works, huh?
MOO

[Cardinal]

I didn't look at the links, but if what you are saying is true that makes those entries 5 years old, at least. What's your point? Couldn't you find anything from Meredith's High School days, or perhaps kindergarten?

How about something within recent memory that reflects on either of the parties involved in Cassidy's custody?

Jason's reaction when Cassidy had an accident is well documented, as is Jason's use of watered down ADULT meds for her. Do you need a link to Jason trolling on the Internet, using Cassidy as date bait? I'm sure I can find it for you.

You can find the links for the 20 SWs, Michelle's autopsy report, the Civil decision declaring him the slayer and the 15+ million dollar judgement @ WRAL.com

MOO

Actually, those entries are 6 years old, and utterly irrelevant, IMO, as opposed to the following:

"...I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but, I don't care."

"I don't care who gets her."

"I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning."

I believe in literary terms, this could be considered foreshadowing.

JMO

[Barbara2]

Didn't you just do exactly that, in your post above?

If it was a current web page, say something like myspace, and it detailed the trials and tribulations of a dysfunctional family, then it might have some relevance. I can see someone forming a negative opinion if that had been the case. IMO I've not seen any such thing regarding anyone in Michelle's biological family.

[gbmy]

Why would you think that the police are wearing blinders? Wasn't it just a week ago that more search warrants were released, and didn't that new information confirm what was already suspected: that Jason was busy with two girlfriends besides his wife shortly before she was suspiciously murdered? This, in itself, means little, but combined with evidence that has been discovered over the past two years, confirms motive. Bit by bit it will come together. The police keep looking to eliminate Jason as a suspect, but everywhere they look leads back to him. It would have been great for Jason if Jason's relationship with CA Sowerby could be described as platonic, but there's nothing to suggest that.

Jester, I didn't say that I thought the police were wearing blinders. Here's what I said:

"I just hope and pray that they don't have the spouse must've done it' blinders on at the expense of investing the appropriate amount of time looking elsewhere. I don't think they are dumb enough to consciously do this."

An investor doesn't think he's wearing blinders as he rides his stock into the ground.

[gbmy]

What makes you think anyone is determined to prove Jason did something wrong? The police are trying to solve a murder, and all evidence points to Jason ... sad, but true.
There's really no difference in these 2 statements unless you start parsing words and forcing the interpretation you want.

[Cardinal]

There's really no difference in these 2 statements unless you start parsing words and forcing the interpretation you want.

Do you think there's evidence pointing to someone other than Jason?

[gbmy]

You are asking me to postulate on a hypothetical I deem outside the realm of probability. Much like the question, What would happen if a frog had wings? Some might maintain that the frog would fly, I say he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hopped. But since it isn't ever going to happen and no one can know the correct answer, I'm not willing to waste time worrying about it.

I have been here since day one, and until the slayer is behind bars I will not rest. Michelle and Rylan deserve justice and their slayer deserves all the contempt, wrath and punishment that this world and the next can mete out. IMO

You answered my question by explaining why you won't answer the question. This allows you to see one and only one possibility. And, that is your perogative which some might constructively critique, rudely critique, agree with, or simply accept it. You can put me in the latter camp.

[gbmy]

Do you think there's evidence pointing to someone other than Jason?
Not that the police have revealed. So, I can only speculate. In order for them to have investigated others, they needed to have some 'reason' to do that. The nature and strength of the reason would determine the degree to which you'd say the reason is 'evidence'. Having said this, I'll provide a twofold answer to your question, one indirect and one direct.

Yes, I think the police had reasons to investigate others. No, I don't think enough resources were invested in diligently pursuing them so that they'd amount to what you and I would consider tangible 'evidence'. You might say that this implies that I don't think LE would deeply follow any and all leads to their fullest degree to see if they amount to anything. My answer to that is, they use their best judgement to make those decisions cause that is all they can do. There's very little question that they believe all evidence points to Jason. You'd have to be in total denial to see it any other way. This leaves you in a position where you express opinions on how strong the evidence is in terms of a) proving he was at the scene of the crime b) finding a murder weapon and c) establishing motive. I think they have 'c' covered, although unfortunately, that motive could arguably be applied to many law abiding spouses.

[Cardinal]

Not that the police have revealed. So, I can only speculate. In order for them to have investigated others, they needed to have some 'reason' to do that. The nature and strength of the reason would determine the degree to which you'd say the reason is 'evidence'. Having said this, I'll provide a twofold answer to your question, one indirect and one direct.

Yes, I think the police had reasons to investigate others. No, I don't think enough resources were invested in diligently pursuing them so that they'd amount to what you and I would consider tangible 'evidence'. You might say that this implies that I don't think LE would deeply follow any and all leads to their fullest degree to see if they amount to anything. My answer to that is, they use their best judgement to make those decisions cause that is all they can do. There's very little question that they believe all evidence points to Jason. You'd have to be in total denial to see it any other way. This leaves you in a position where you express opinions on how strong the evidence is in terms of a) proving he was at the scene of the crime b) finding a murder weapon and c) establishing motive. I think they have 'c' covered, although unfortunately, that motive could arguably be applied to many law abiding spouses.

If LE hasn't revealed evidence that points to anyone other than Jason, is it not somewhat unrealistic to expect posters to believe someone other than Jason killed Michelle? And yes, LE would have needed a "reason" to investigate others. Do you think it's possible that LE investigated others to the extent they had a reason, and satisfied themselves there was no evidence to indicate those others were involved?

[gbmy]

If LE hasn't revealed evidence that points to anyone other than Jason, is it not somewhat unrealistic to expect posters to believe someone other than Jason killed Michelle? And yes, LE would have needed a "reason" to investigate others. Do you think it's possible that LE investigated others to the extent they had a reason, and satisfied themselves there was no evidence to indicate those others were involved?
Yes, I think LE talked to other persons of interest and definitely satisfied themselves that it would not be a wise investment of limited resources to dig further. And yes, given all of the information resulting from LE investigating JY, I can see why people would think an adulterous husband who refuses to talk would be the likely person to have killed Michelle.

[Cardinal]

Yes, I think LE talked to other persons of interest and definitely satisfied themselves that it would not be a wise investment of limited resources to dig further. And yes, given all of the information resulting from LE investigating JY, I can see why people would think an adulterous husband who refuses to talk would be the likely person to have killed Michelle.

Yet you obviously have greater doubt of his involvement than most. Why?

[5swab5]

Not that the police have revealed. So, I can only speculate. In order for them to have investigated others, they needed to have some 'reason' to do that. The nature and strength of the reason would determine the degree to which you'd say the reason is 'evidence'. Having said this, I'll provide a twofold answer to your question, one indirect and one direct.

Yes, I think the police had reasons to investigate others. No, I don't think enough resources were invested in diligently pursuing them so that they'd amount to what you and I would consider tangible 'evidence'. You might say that this implies that I don't think LE would deeply follow any and all leads to their fullest degree to see if they amount to anything. My answer to that is, they use their best judgement to make those decisions cause that is all they can do. There's very little question that they believe all evidence points to Jason. You'd have to be in total denial to see it any other way. This leaves you in a position where you express opinions on how strong the evidence is in terms of a) proving he was at the scene of the crime b) finding a murder weapon and c) establishing motive. I think they have 'c' covered, although unfortunately, that motive could arguably be applied to many law abiding spouses.

It is well documented that LE has interviewed 100s of witnesses. It is obvious that they followed the normal route and checked out the below.

#1 Spouse, particularly of a married pregnant woman.
#2 Person who finds the body...sent to the scene by Jason.
#3 Last Person to see the victim alive
#4 Paramours of the spouse.
#5 Neighbors and Coworkers

They saw something and concluded that the crime wasn't random and said as much right from the start. Was this because Jason forgot and locked the door behind him or the fact that neither Cassidy nor Mr. Garrison were harmed? Was it because fledgling criminals don't know how to stage a robbery scene? Could be, but I suspect that the sheer brutality of the crime, the overkill that Michelle endured led them to see these murders as very personal. MOO

[Doorbell]

I hope you are wrong. I hope if the real killers are ever found Jason can get his life back. In the mean time I would beware that it only takes 2 women, a det. and a judge in Wake Co. NC to have a person declared a slayer and their child taken from them. I would think instead of being joyous this would make a lot of people nervous. I don't know if any civil judge has ever taken it upon themselves to convict a man that a criminal judge doesn't have the evidence to convict?

No. It took Jason's own actions and inactions to do that.

[Jester]

I hope you are wrong. I hope if the real killers are ever found Jason can get his life back. In the mean time I would beware that it only takes 2 women, a det. and a judge in Wake Co. NC to have a person declared a slayer and their child taken from them. I would think instead of being joyous this would make a lot of people nervous. I don't know if any civil judge has ever taken it upon themselves to convict a man that a criminal judge doesn't have the evidence to convict?

Could you perhaps be oversimplifying a wee bit? All is takes is 2 women, a det. and a judge ... to ...? What really happened is that Jason Young chose this route. Even if he is innocent of murder, he chose to give up all financial responsibility related to Michelle and primary custody of his only child. No one took anything away from him without his consent.

[Jester]

I found Meredith's resume. I believe this was written when Michelle was expecting Cassie.

http://mixie118.livejournal.com/


http://mixie118.livejournal.com/profile

Resume? I hardly think so.

[Jester]

Jester, I didn't say that I thought the police were wearing blinders. Here's what I said:

"I just hope and pray that they don't have the spouse must've done it' blinders on at the expense of investing the appropriate amount of time looking elsewhere. I don't think they are dumb enough to consciously do this."

An investor doesn't think he's wearing blinders as he rides his stock into the ground.
Here's what I said: the length of the investigation has nothing to do with whether the police are wearing blinders. The investigation is active, ongoing, and new evidence has been unearthed as recently as mid-March 2009. Had Jason's relationships with MM and CAS been platonic, the evidence would detract from motive. This could conceivably point police in a new direction. However, recent evidence indicates Jason's relationships with his two girlfriends were not platonic, therefore it adds to motive. This is inconsistent with any suggestion that police are wearing blinders, but supports the argument that police continue to gather whatever evidence they can, and it continues to point to Jason's guilt.

[Jester]

There's really no difference in these 2 statements unless you start parsing words and forcing the interpretation you want.

I'm not parsing anything. Police investigated Jason's claim that he was at the hotel, amongst other things. They searched for confirmation that he remained at the hotel. To their surprise, Jason was seen heading for the exit at midnight, his keycard was used only once, and nothing adds up. There is a distinct difference between investigating a murder, and trying to pin the murder on someone. Police are still trying to make sense of Jason's actions at midnight, and he couldn't care less. If he is not the murderer, then he is a fool for not clearing up the confusion about why his keycard was only used once, and where he was going at midnight. If he is the murderer, then the longer the police remain confused, the happier he is. His silence suggests that he wants the police to remain confused.

[Stellagant]

Jason's consent order will not be revisited,


That's your opinion or maybe just wishful thinking on your part.:rolleyes:

[gbmy]

Yet you obviously have greater doubt of his involvement than most. Why?

My beliefs are primarily (not solely) based on 3 things. One is facts. Specific to this case, a fact is defined as information that has been made public. Two is a respect for the laws of our land. And three is spiritual, which our lord sums up nicely when he says 'love thy neighbor and do unto others as you would want them to do unto you'.

Now, to very directly answer your question. The stubborn fact that makes me have greater doubt than most is that there is no information in the public domain that proves Jason ever left the hotel that night. I hope that this, along with my explanation above answers your question.

[gbmy]

Here's what I said: the length of the investigation has nothing to do with whether the police are wearing blinders. The investigation is active, ongoing, and new evidence has been unearthed as recently as mid-March 2009. Had Jason's relationships with MM and CAS been platonic, the evidence would detract from motive. This could conceivably point police in a new direction. However, recent evidence indicates Jason's relationships with his two girlfriends were not platonic, therefore it adds to motive. This is inconsistent with any suggestion that police are wearing blinders, but supports the argument that police continue to gather whatever evidence they can, and it continues to point to Jason's guilt.
I think 'wearing blinders' is sort of an ambiguous term to base further discussion on. I agree with you that the police believe in their heart of hearts that they are pursuing the person they 'believe' killed Michelle. The stubborn fact here is that they themselves and/or the DA do not think the evidence to support their beliefs is strong enough to convince a jury of 12 that Jason did this. Bottom line, they are searching for things they haven't found yet. We don't know what, how much, or if it even exists. Based on all of this, Jason continues to have my support in believing he's innocent.....But, committing adultery is very, very wrong. A grave sin based on my faith.

[Jester]

That's your opinion or maybe just wishful thinking on your part.:rolleyes:

On what grounds could Jason argue that he made a mistake when he consented to hand over primary custody of his only child? Madness? Insanity? Stupidity? Paranoia? I can't think of any good reason he has, or may have, for reversing his own consent order.

[Stellagant]

Not that the police have revealed. So, I can only speculate. In order for them to have investigated others, they needed to have some 'reason' to do that. The nature and strength of the reason would determine the degree to which you'd say the reason is 'evidence'. Having said this, I'll provide a twofold answer to your question, one indirect and one direct.

Yes, I think the police had reasons to investigate others. No, I don't think enough resources were invested in diligently pursuing them so that they'd amount to what you and I would consider tangible 'evidence'. You might say that this implies that I don't think LE would deeply follow any and all leads to their fullest degree to see if they amount to anything. My answer to that is, they use their best judgement to make those decisions cause that is all they can do. There's very little question that they believe all evidence points to Jason. You'd have to be in total denial to see it any other way. This leaves you in a position where you express opinions on how strong the evidence is in terms of a) proving he was at the scene of the crime b) finding a murder weapon and c) establishing motive. I think they have 'c' covered, although unfortunately, that motive could arguably be applied to many law abiding spouses.

Very true. The motive doesn't fly because Jason didn't end up with these women and there is no evidence he or Michelle wanted to end their marriage. What we do know is that he was very vocal about their troubled sex life and Michelle was in therapy. His seeking sex elsewhere was evidently no secret amongst their friends.

I think LE believes Jason was involved but there is no evidence he had opportunity. The last few search warrants make it clear they have not been able to clear him of that involvement (hired hit, girlfriend did it, etc.)

The most compelling piece of evidence they have shown us that points to involvement of someone else is the Franklin shoe print and the dark posterior livor mortis. By the time Michelle was found hours after her murder, she was stiff with rigor so the livor mortis also should have been at least partially fixed on her anterior side. It wasn't.

[Stellagant]

On what grounds could Jason argue that he made a mistake when he consented to hand over primary custody of his only child? Madness? Insanity? Stupidity? Paranoia? I can't think of any good reason he has, or may have, for reversing his own consent order.

Simple, really. Jason hasn't spoken to police so he signed that settlement agreement unaware of Meredith Fisher's status as a suspect in the murder of his wife and son.

[Stellagant]

My beliefs are primarily (not solely) based on 3 things. One is facts. Specific to this case, a fact is defined as information that has been made public. Two is a respect for the laws of our land. And three is spiritual, which our lord sums up nicely when he says 'love thy neighbor and do unto others as you would want them to do unto you'.

Now, to very directly answer your question. The stubborn fact that makes me have greater doubt than most is that there is no information in the public domain that proves Jason ever left the hotel that night. I hope that this, along with my explanation above answers your question.

ITA. LE also hasn't placed in public domain Michelle's time of death. What LE has placed in public domain is their theory Cassidy was removed from the scene. That alone doesn't match up to Jason being the perp.

[Jester]

I think 'wearing blinders' is sort of an ambiguous term to base further discussion on. I agree with you that the police believe in their heart of hearts that they are pursuing the person they 'believe' killed Michelle. The stubborn fact here is that they themselves and/or the DA do not think the evidence to support their beliefs is strong enough to convince a jury of 12 that Jason did this. Bottom line, they are searching for things they haven't found yet. We don't know what, how much, or if it even exists. Based on all of this, Jason continues to have my support in believing he's innocent.....But, committing adultery is very, very wrong. A grave sin based on my faith.

Bolding mine ... I don't know how you can come to this conclusion. All investigations begin with gathering evidence, and many investigations take years to complete. To suggest that time is a factor in guilt or innocence is not logical. Police may not yet have sufficient evidence to proceed with a conviction, but there is no reason to assume that they are mistaken in their investigation because charges have not been filed.

They are not only searching for new evidence, but they are seeking independent confirmation of the evidence they already have. We already knew that Jason had one girlfriend when Michelle was murdered, now we know that he had two. Perhaps there were more. With one girlfriend, we could maybe assume that it was a one-off error in his married ways. With two girlfriends, we know that Jason was more likely shopping for a new relationship, something his wife would not tolerate. His marriage was on the rocks, and suddenly Jason is single because his wife is murdered. How nicely things worked out for him, or did they.

[Stellagant]

Bolding mine ... I don't know how you can come to this conclusion. All investigations begin with gathering evidence, and many investigations take years to complete. To suggest that time is a factor in guilt or innocence is not logical. Police may not yet have sufficient evidence to proceed with a conviction, but there is no reason to assume that they are mistaken in their investigation because charges have not been filed.

They are not only searching for new evidence, but they are seeking independent confirmation of the evidence they already have. We already knew that Jason had one girlfriend when Michelle was murdered, now we know that he had two. Perhaps there were more. With one girlfriend, we could maybe assume that it was a one-off error in his married ways. With two girlfriends, we know that Jason was more likely shopping for a new relationship, something his wife would not tolerate. His marriage was on the rocks, and suddenly Jason is single because his wife is murdered. How nicely things worked out for him, or did they.


Where is the evidence their marriage was on the rocks? Where is the evidence his wife knew about two girlfriends and tolerated them?

[Jester]

Simple, really. Jason hasn't spoken to police so he signed that settlement agreement unaware of Meredith Fisher's status as a suspect in the murder of his wife and son.

Oh ... thanks ... I forgot that, solely based on the 911 call, your theory is that Meredith murdered Michelle, so when the police finally come to their senses and prosecute Meredith, Cassidy will be returned to her father's care. Whatever.

My theory is that Meredith discovered her sister's body and is innocent of any involvement in the murder. Therefore, Jason has no, none, zero grounds on which to reverse his own consent order.

[Stellagant]

Oh ... thanks ... I forgot that, solely based on the 911 call, your theory is that Meredith murdered Michelle, so when the police finally come to their senses and prosecute Meredith, Cassidy will be returned to her father's care. Whatever.

My theory is that Meredith discovered her sister's body and is innocent of any involvement in the murder. Therefore, Jason has no, none, zero grounds on which to reverse his own consent order.

No, my opinion that Meredith murdered Michelle is not "solely based on the 911 call."

My opinion isn't grounds for Jason to reverse his decision. New circumstances are grounds for Jason to reverse his decision.

[Jester]

Where is the evidence their marriage was on the rocks? Where is the evidence his wife knew about two girlfriends and tolerated them?

Sorry, I thought you were following the case. I refer you to the recent search warrants describing the loud, serious, violent arguments between Michelle and Jason, his numerous relationships, his bad attitude, his statement telling Michelle he could kill her because he had to pick up his daughter, his frequent swearing at Michelle, and much more. Have a read. If that's not a marriage on the rocks, nothing is.

Regarding Michelle tolerating Jason's adultery, I said she would not tolerate it. Jason, evidently, was picking up girls anywhere he could - including at some youth camp. If Michelle didn't know about his adultery when she found someone else's panties in her bed, she most likely was figuring it out by the time she was murdered.

[gbmy]

I'm not parsing anything. Police investigated Jason's claim that he was at the hotel, amongst other things. They searched for confirmation that he remained at the hotel. To their surprise, Jason was seen heading for the exit at midnight, his keycard was used only once, and nothing adds up. There is a distinct difference between investigating a murder, and trying to pin the murder on someone. Police are still trying to make sense of Jason's actions at midnight, and he couldn't care less. If he is not the murderer, then he is a fool for not clearing up the confusion about why his keycard was only used once, and where he was going at midnight. If he is the murderer, then the longer the police remain confused, the happier he is. His silence suggests that he wants the police to remain confused.
If Jason is guilty, then you may be right. But, this just opens up the 'silence suggests guilt' discussion. And, for me, it takes more than 'suggestion' to channel my beliefs down a path where I'd accuse a free man with no criminal record of murder. Especially when the only way for that to be possible is if they could prove he left the hotel. Some may think they can and are just 'withholding' that information. But, that is not a fact. Given this, I have 2 questions for you (ie your opinion).

1. Why did LE choose to make it public that they had video of Jason walking towards the hotel exit and that there was a rock in the door?
2. Do you think they have additional information the actually proves he walked out of the hotel exit to the outdoors at midnight or round about that time? If so, then why make #1 public and not this?

[Stellagant]

Sorry, I thought you were following the case. I refer you to the recent search warrants describing the loud, serious, violent arguments between Michelle and Jason, his numerous relationships, his bad attitude, his statement telling Michelle he could kill her because he had to pick up his daughter, his frequent swearing at Michelle, and much more. Have a read. If that's not a marriage on the rocks, nothing is.

Regarding Michelle tolerating Jason's adultery, I said she would not tolerate it. Jason, evidently, was picking up girls anywhere he could - including at some youth camp. If Michelle didn't know about his adultery when she found someone else's panties in her bed, she most likely was figuring it out by the time she was murdered.

But according to your theory, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason should have been thrilled. It makes absolutely no sense that a man who wants to be with other women would murder his wife because she wants a divorce.

There were no witnesses to violence. And there is no evidence that either Michelle or Jason was considering ending their marriage.

btw, if YOU were following the case, you would know that Jason was no longer attending 'youth camp.' :rolleyes:

[gbmy]

Bolding mine ... I don't know how you can come to this conclusion. All investigations begin with gathering evidence, and many investigations take years to complete. To suggest that time is a factor in guilt or innocence is not logical. Police may not yet have sufficient evidence to proceed with a conviction, but there is no reason to assume that they are mistaken in their investigation because charges have not been filed.

They are not only searching for new evidence, but they are seeking independent confirmation of the evidence they already have. We already knew that Jason had one girlfriend when Michelle was murdered, now we know that he had two. Perhaps there were more. With one girlfriend, we could maybe assume that it was a one-off error in his married ways. With two girlfriends, we know that Jason was more likely shopping for a new relationship, something his wife would not tolerate. His marriage was on the rocks, and suddenly Jason is single because his wife is murdered. How nicely things worked out for him, or did they.
I said "The stubborn fact here is that they themselves and/or the DA do not think the evidence to support their beliefs is strong enough to convince a jury of 12 that Jason did this."

You said: I don't know how you can come to this conclusion.

I'm not sure I understand your statement. But, I have to believe that you did not intend it to mean that the DA and LE are choosing not to arrest Jason even though they both think they have enough evidence to convince a jury of 12. If you did intend it to mean that, then I'd be very interested in hearing your rationale........Waiting for a confession perhaps? Well, if true, then that's not a fact based on information made public. It's speculation.

[tiny paw-prints]

.

(respectfully snipped)

They saw something and concluded that the crime wasn't random and said as much right from the start. Was this because Jason forgot and locked the door behind him or the fact that neither Cassidy nor Mr. Garrison were harmed? Was it because fledgling criminals don't know how to stage a robbery scene? Could be, but I suspect that the sheer brutality of the crime, the overkill that Michelle endured led them to see these murders as very personal. MOO

Hello swabby; I agree with your entire post, especially as to:

"very personal" is usually determined due to facial/head injuries and covering the head or the body being found face down.

As always, it is good to see you and read you.

[5swab5]

If Jason is guilty, then you may be right. But, this just opens up the 'silence suggests guilt' discussion. And, for me, it takes more than 'suggestion' to channel my beliefs down a path where I'd accuse a free man with no criminal record of murder. Especially when the only way for that to be possible is if they could prove he left the hotel. Some may think they can and are just 'withholding' that information. But, that is not a fact. Given this, I have 2 questions for you (ie your opinion). (snipped)

There are literally hundreds of wife/SO murderers in Prison in this Country. Many of them never had so much a parking ticket before the murders and most of them had never been in any real trouble with the law. Some that weren't prosecuted until years and years later, never got into any trouble in the interim either. Having or not having a criminal record isn't indicative of anything in spousal murders.

If you don't believe that Jason left that hotel, then you have to believe that he allowed himself to be declared a slayer, lose Primary physical custody of his only child and incur a multimillion dollar judgment against himself for nothing. I cannot believe that and cannot imagine but one reasonable explanation for it. MOO

[5swab5]

But according to your theory, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason should have been thrilled. It makes absolutely no sense that a man who wants to be with other women would murder his wife because she wants a divorce.

There were no witnesses to violence. And there is no evidence that either Michelle or Jason was considering ending their marriage.

btw, if YOU were following the case, you would know that Jason was no longer attending 'youth camp.' :rolleyes:


Not so sure that Jason was going to be happy dividing everything, paying child support for two children for eighteen years, and as the guilty party...i.e. adulterer...possibly having to pay Alimony. Better to be the grieving spouse with a fat insurance policy to collect, but he couldn't even pretend to be concerned long enough to get anything done. He's been movin' on since day one. MOO

[reborn]

Sorry, I thought you were following the case. I refer you to the recent search warrants describing the loud, serious, violent arguments between Michelle and Jason, his numerous relationships, his bad attitude, his statement telling Michelle he could kill her because he had to pick up his daughter, his frequent swearing at Michelle, and much more. Have a read. If that's not a marriage on the rocks, nothing is.

Regarding Michelle tolerating Jason's adultery, I said she would not tolerate it. Jason, evidently, was picking up girls anywhere he could - including at some youth camp. If Michelle didn't know about his adultery when she found someone else's panties in her bed, she most likely was figuring it out by the time she was murdered.

I am following the case. The violent hours long fights sounds like two people involved . We have one admitted relationship of two sexual encounters and you have taken that to numerous. I believe the snipped part of an email said I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning. You have chosen to embellish and bring Cassie into it. Cassie peed on the floor and there wasn't any air . The electric was off. What I haven't been able to understand about those messages he had Cassie why was he talking about picking her up? Thats why I think LE played a little game with those messages. If I understand correctly the panties in the bed was in the condo . That was a long time before Michelle was killed.

[BeachMeAgain]

I am following the case. The violent hours long fights sounds like two people involved . We have one admitted relationship of two sexual encounters and you have taken that to numerous. I believe the snipped part of an email said I could kill u for not letting me finish the yard this morning. You have chosen to embellish and bring Cassie into it. Cassie peed on the floor and there wasn't any air . The electric was off. What I haven't been able to understand about those messages he had Cassie why was he talking about picking her up? Thats why I think LE played a little game with those messages. If I understand correctly the panties in the bed was in the condo . That was a long time before Michelle was killed.

When reading the SW's again, it explains what you say that you don't understand about the time frame. First, Michelle asks him to please call her as she wants to know who is picking up Cassidy. Then Jason responds with "I don't care who gets her". Then the next text/email is Jason stating "I just got home and the 'gd' power is out..." etc. I won't repeat the rest of his tantrum, but imo, he blames Michelle for everything and she wasn't even there. Even if LE was trying anything with those messages, they did not change his words. I won't comment about the timing of the panties in the bed because does it really matter if they were there a week, month, or year ago? It tells the same story no matter when he did it. IMO

[Doorbell]

Simple, really. Jason hasn't spoken to police so he signed that settlement agreement unaware of Meredith Fisher's status as a suspect in the murder of his wife and son.

The only people who think Meredith is a suspect are right here on this board.

IMO

[Doorbell]

Where is the evidence their marriage was on the rocks? Where is the evidence his wife knew about two girlfriends and tolerated them?

The poster said that Michelle would NOT tolerate the outside relationships.

[Doorbell]

But according to your theory, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason should have been thrilled. It makes absolutely no sense that a man who wants to be with other women would murder his wife because she wants a divorce.

There were no witnesses to violence. And there is no evidence that either Michelle or Jason was considering ending their marriage.

btw, if YOU were following the case, you would know that Jason was no longer attending 'youth camp.' :rolleyes:

Child support. Community property.

There were obviously witnesses to fights, because that information is in search warrants.

He was not attending camp, but had been in recent contact (per search warrants) with a woman who was a camper there while he was a counselor.

IMO

[gbmy]

There are literally hundreds of wife/SO murderers in Prison in this Country. Many of them never had so much a parking ticket before the murders and most of them had never been in any real trouble with the law. Some that weren't prosecuted until years and years later, never got into any trouble in the interim either. Having or not having a criminal record isn't indicative of anything in spousal murders.

If you don't believe that Jason left that hotel, then you have to believe that he allowed himself to be declared a slayer, lose Primary physical custody of his only child and incur a multimillion dollar judgment against himself for nothing. I cannot believe that and cannot imagine but one reasonable explanation for it. MOO
Yeah, you're right. Point well taken about the lack of a criminal record and any real statistical relevance to spousal murders. Regarding him leaving the hotel, it's cool for us to share beliefs. But, our beliefs don't change facts. LE shared video of him in the hotel shortly before midnight walking towards the exit. That's a fact. LE did not share any proof with the public showing that he walked out the door into the evening air. That's a fact. Why do you think they'd share one and not the other?

[BeachMeAgain]

Yeah, you're right. Point well taken about the lack of a criminal record and any real statistical relevance to spousal murders. Regarding him leaving the hotel, it's cool for us to share beliefs. But, our beliefs don't change facts. LE shared video of him in the hotel shortly before midnight walking towards the exit. That's a fact. LE did not share any proof with the public showing that he walked out the door into the evening air. That's a fact. Why do you think they'd share one and not the other?

ITA that our beliefs don't change the facts. You didn't ask me, but imo I think the SW's are for the purpose they need at the time. I don't know if they have video of Jason leaving or not but for Probable Cause, it was enough to get the SW. I don't know what you're getting at but imo, I have no problem with LE sharing some info. but not all, if that is what they need to do while investigating the murder of a loved one.

[Leanne Weich]

ITA that our beliefs don't change the facts. You didn't ask me, but imo I think the SW's are for the purpose they need at the time. I don't know if they have video of Jason leaving or not but for Probable Cause, it was enough to get the SW. I don't know what you're getting at but imo, I have no problem with LE sharing some info. but not all, if that is what they need to do while investigating the murder of a loved one.

LE generally tries to keep some pertinent information about the murder and investigation to themselves to use to trip up the perp if they inadvertently say something to someone. I do, however, agree with you that LE only divulges what is essential for probable cause to get a warrant authorised and it is m.o. that is only what has been released in this case. I know some people think LE has released stuff to make Jason look bad but I don't believe that is the case. I think we're up to about 20 SWs now so it stands to reason they've probably had to release stuff that they would have preferred to save for trial. In addition, Det. Spivey did say, under oath, that they have more that the public has not been made aware of.

[gbmy]

ITA that our beliefs don't change the facts. You didn't ask me, but imo I think the SW's are for the purpose they need at the time. I don't know if they have video of Jason leaving or not but for Probable Cause, it was enough to get the SW. I don't know what you're getting at but imo, I have no problem with LE sharing some info. but not all, if that is what they need to do while investigating the murder of a loved one.
I agree. LE doesn't owe the public full disclosure by any means. But, any fact centric discussion can only be based on what they do disclose. That was all I was getting at. Nothing more, nothing less.

[reborn]

When reading the SW's again, it explains what you say that you don't understand about the time frame. First, Michelle asks him to please call her as she wants to know who is picking up Cassidy. Then Jason responds with "I don't care who gets her". Then the next text/email is Jason stating "I just got home and the 'gd' power is out..." etc. I won't repeat the rest of his tantrum, but imo, he blames Michelle for everything and she wasn't even there. Even if LE was trying anything with those messages, they did not change his words. I won't comment about the timing of the panties in the bed because does it really matter if they were there a week, month, or year ago? It tells the same story no matter when he did it. IMO


Yes but you are taking the pantie story as factual. Someone told this story about something that happened years before or not. If I remember correctly there was a room mate in that condo. If there was panties in the bed maybe they were friends of the roomies. maybe there wasn't even panties . Either way Michelle chose to forgive if not forget because she certainly got pregnant again after that. I don't condone nor could I forget the affair with MM. Forgive maybe but certainly not forget.

[reborn]

The only people who think Meredith is a suspect are right here on this board.

IMO


You can say that but you are wrong. There was a warrant that showed LE had suspicions of Meredith. Maybe she had an iron clad alibi . Maybe she didn't and LE is still watching her. LE hasn't handed down any indictment and until they do I think they are watching a lot more people than you think. What has the 20 warrants for Jason yielded them? A couple pair of shoes a few emails and nothing else. I think LE did the last search on emails to see who was emailing Jason . Not who Jason was emailing. The discussions with Alan Fisher showed no evidence of murder . I don't think Alan ever actually said he thought Jason did kill Michelle. I think Alan would have liked for Jason to have said I didn't do it and Jason didn't. Why didn't Jason say that to him? Was it because he did kill her? If he could kill his wife I would certainly think he could lie to his FIL. I think he didn't because he was doing what his attorney told him to do and that was don't say a word to anyone about the murder. I think if he had killed Michelle he would have avoided Alan . Fact is he didn't . He made sure Alan got to see his granddaughter in his final days.

[Stellagant]

Child support. Community property.

There were obviously witnesses to fights, because that information is in search warrants.

He was not attending camp, but had been in recent contact (per search warrants) with a woman who was a camper there while he was a counselor.

IMO

GMAB. There is absolutely no evidence Jason didn't want his son or didn't want to be a father.

NC isn't a community property state but even if it were, the Youngs had been married only three years. Not a lot of equity in their assets in that short period for anyone to choose murder over divorce.

None of the witnesses quoted in the search warrants said they witnessed violence.

[Stellagant]

You can say that but you are wrong. There was a warrant that showed LE had suspicions of Meredith. Maybe she had an iron clad alibi . Maybe she didn't and LE is still watching her. LE hasn't handed down any indictment and until they do I think they are watching a lot more people than you think. What has the 20 warrants for Jason yielded them? A couple pair of shoes a few emails and nothing else. I think LE did the last search on emails to see who was emailing Jason . Not who Jason was emailing. The discussions with Alan Fisher showed no evidence of murder . I don't think Alan ever actually said he thought Jason did kill Michelle. I think Alan would have liked for Jason to have said I didn't do it and Jason didn't. Why didn't Jason say that to him? Was it because he did kill her? If he could kill his wife I would certainly think he could lie to his FIL. I think he didn't because he was doing what his attorney told him to do and that was don't say a word to anyone about the murder. I think if he had killed Michelle he would have avoided Alan . Fact is he didn't . He made sure Alan got to see his granddaughter in his final days.

ITA. LE hasn't cleared Meredith publicly and now they are referring media to the DA's office. Huge elephant in the living room, imo.

[Stellagant]

The poster said that Michelle would NOT tolerate the outside relationships.

The poster knows this detail about Michelle, how?

Michelle would not be the first spouse who would choose to try to save the marriage. It is a fact Michelle was seeing a therapist.

[BeachMeAgain]

LE generally tries to keep some pertinent information about the murder and investigation to themselves to use to trip up the perp if they inadvertently say something to someone. I do, however, agree with you that LE only divulges what is essential for probable cause to get a warrant authorised and it is m.o. that is only what has been released in this case. I know some people think LE has released stuff to make Jason look bad but I don't believe that is the case. I think we're up to about 20 SWs now so it stands to reason they've probably had to release stuff that they would have preferred to save for trial. In addition, Det. Spivey did say, under oath, that they have more that the public has not been made aware of.


I agree. IMO, the last SW's were not released because they said where Cassidy was found. Before the last SW's, we only knew Cassidy was in the house but we didn't know she was in the bed with clean feet. LE might not want the general public to know that since only the slayer and the person who found her would know those details. IMO.

[BeachMeAgain]

I agree. LE doesn't owe the public full disclosure by any means. But, any fact centric discussion can only be based on what they do disclose. That was all I was getting at. Nothing more, nothing less.

What they do disclose indeed. I agree with you.

[BeachMeAgain]

Yes but you are taking the pantie story as factual. Someone told this story about something that happened years before or not. If I remember correctly there was a room mate in that condo. If there was panties in the bed maybe they were friends of the roomies. maybe there wasn't even panties . Either way Michelle chose to forgive if not forget because she certainly got pregnant again after that. I don't condone nor could I forget the affair with MM. Forgive maybe but certainly not forget.

The "pantie story" really doesn't matter to me as much as the other very relevant stories do. I choose not to determine what Michelle did or didn't do since she isn't here to tell us her feelings on the matter.

[Jester]

No, my opinion that Meredith murdered Michelle is not "solely based on the 911 call."

My opinion isn't grounds for Jason to reverse his decision. New circumstances are grounds for Jason to reverse his decision.

Sorry, forgot about the keys ... let me revise my statement: based solely on the 911 call and the keys, you theorize that Meredith is guilty of murder.

She's not guilty of murder. She wasn't even at the scene until Jason Young asked her to kindly go to the house to retrieve an outdated purse advertisement printout. Apparently he has claimed that the print out was related to an anniversary gift he considered purchasing for Michelle ... but the anniversary was weeks earlier, and the printout was for an expired second hand purchase. Not sure how many women are happy with a used purse as a gift for an anniversary that passed last month but hey ... maybe some will argue it's A-OK.

[Jester]

Simple, really. Jason hasn't spoken to police so he signed that settlement agreement unaware of Meredith Fisher's status as a suspect in the murder of his wife and son.

It is simple, really. Jason has not spoken a word since he murdered his wife. He had no choice but to settle both the wrongful death suit and the custody application against his wishes ... he had two choices: speak up, or lose. He chose to lose rather than speak up. Apparently his silence regarding his wife's murder is more important to him than any money from the life insurance police (about a million dollars) and custody of his only child.

Doesn't that say something?

[Jester]

If Jason is guilty, then you may be right. But, this just opens up the 'silence suggests guilt' discussion. And, for me, it takes more than 'suggestion' to channel my beliefs down a path where I'd accuse a free man with no criminal record of murder. Especially when the only way for that to be possible is if they could prove he left the hotel. Some may think they can and are just 'withholding' that information. But, that is not a fact. Given this, I have 2 questions for you (ie your opinion).

1. Why did LE choose to make it public that they had video of Jason walking towards the hotel exit and that there was a rock in the door?
2. Do you think they have additional information that actually proves he walked out of the hotel exit to the outdoors at midnight or round about that time? If so, then why make #1 public and not this?

Silence suggest guilt? Interesting thought. Do you think that people think Jason is guilty only because he remains mute? I suggest you read the last 29 months of evidence, search warrants, and related court documents before you conclude that Jason is a suspect merely because he is silent.

Police have spent more than two years trying to sort out what happened the night that Michelle was murdered. They were slowed down, but not stopped, by the fact that Jason remained mute. Police were able to, and continue to, gather evidence regardless of Jason's lack of cooperation. Each piece of evidence that is gathered is weighed against Jason's innocence or guilt, and still the police are not able to rule him out ... after 29 months. In response to points 1 and 2:

1. There are a couple of questions that relate to Jason heading towards the exit at midnight (having only used his keycard once during his over night stay), Police did not make this public, but it was necessary to include this information in search warrants. The fact that the door was propped open the same evening at the same time has also been made public through search warrants. The police did not release this information.

2. I don't think there is video tape of the outside of the building, only the inside;

[Jester]

But according to your theory, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason should have been thrilled. It makes absolutely no sense that a man who wants to be with other women would murder his wife because she wants a divorce.

There were no witnesses to violence. And there is no evidence that either Michelle or Jason was considering ending their marriage.

btw, if YOU were following the case, you would know that Jason was no longer attending 'youth camp.' :rolleyes:

Actually, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason would have been threatened and hostile, not thrilled. He's a Mr Macho guy who can't deal with looking after his own children without a beer and a pool, let alone a blow to his ego. It makes absolutely no sense that a man would murder his wife because he is a trollope (defn.: a vulgar or disreputable woman [man]; especially : one who engages in sex promiscuously or for money), but men murder women every day because they don't like the idea of divorce.

[Jester]

GMAB. There is absolutely no evidence Jason didn't want his son or didn't want to be a father.

NC isn't a community property state but even if it were, the Youngs had been married only three years. Not a lot of equity in their assets in that short period for anyone to choose murder over divorce.

None of the witnesses quoted in the search warrants said they witnessed violence.

Jason, the grieving father, experienced the loss of not only his unborn son Rylan, but the unborn son his wife was carrying when she was slammed into the dashboard of the car when it careened into the river ... and how many people have come forward to describe not only Jason's grief over the loss of the first son's premature termination, but the second? In fact, no one has come forward to describe Jason's grief over the loss of his twosons ... as he has no grief. It's been 29 months since he murdered his youngest unborn son, and not one person; including Jason, has expressed any grief regarding the termination of the lives of his two sons. There is evidence that Jason had a hand in terminating the lives of two future sons, and couldn't care less.

There's no equity in Jason and Michelle Young's estate because they were living month to month, and were stretched beyond their means, especially with Jason out of work and taking vacations with his mom and sisters. Paying for girlfriends, even if they slept in Michelle's bedroom, while married added to the financial strain on the marriage.

If none of the witnesses said they witnessed violence, who said that Jason punched hole in the wall? who said the arguments were loud, who, in their right mind, claims that men who claim they want to murder their wives are not violent?

[Cardinal]

My beliefs are primarily (not solely) based on 3 things. One is facts. Specific to this case, a fact is defined as information that has been made public. Two is a respect for the laws of our land. And three is spiritual, which our lord sums up nicely when he says 'love thy neighbor and do unto others as you would want them to do unto you'.

Now, to very directly answer your question. The stubborn fact that makes me have greater doubt than most is that there is no information in the public domain that proves Jason ever left the hotel that night. I hope that this, along with my explanation above answers your question.

If I understand your response, you respect the concept of IUPG, as do I. I would point out, however, that concept is one of legal guilt rather than factual guilt - IOW, the jury's verdict cannot change whether or not the defendant actually committed the crime; it is only a manifestation of the state's ability to prove its case. And whether or not the DA can prove Jason left the hotel that night, the videotape that exists, viewed as a part of the whole case, may be more than sufficient to convince a jury. Juries are comprised of human beings, and human beings are going to want someone held accountable for the brutal murder of a lovely, intelligent, pregnant mother.

I completely agree with your spiritual reference, and my parents taught me to live my life that way. They also, however, taught me that one reaps what one sows. And I shudder to think how that applies to Jason Young.

JMO

[reborn]

Sorry, forgot about the keys ... let me revise my statement: based solely on the 911 call and the keys, you theorize that Meredith is guilty of murder.

She's not guilty of murder. She wasn't even at the scene until Jason Young asked her to kindly go to the house to retrieve an outdated purse advertisement printout. Apparently he has claimed that the print out was related to an anniversary gift he considered purchasing for Michelle ... but the anniversary was weeks earlier, and the printout was for an expired second hand purchase. Not sure how many women are happy with a used purse as a gift for an anniversary that passed last month but hey ... maybe some will argue it's A-OK.


Back to the old print out. We don't know how many times Jason tried to call Michelle that day. LE has let us know of 2 but there could have been many more. Makes a lot more sense for Jason to have said Meredith I can't reach Michelle will you check on her? But instead he babbles on about a purse. Well not really just a picture of a purse. Now we get information on a need to know basis. Spivey decided we needed to know the call was accounted for and recorded. Way to much speculation about maybe Meredith making it up. So Spivey set the record straight. If Jason was just trying to get someone at that house why did he use that dumb purse story? It looks like from the warrants he called Meredith minutes after he had tried Michelle twice. I wonder if Spivey has the actual words or just a time showing the call to Meredith. Maybe it will become a need to know soon .

[Barbara2]

Back to the old print out. We don't know how many times Jason tried to call Michelle that day. LE has let us know of 2 but there could have been many more. Makes a lot more sense for Jason to have said Meredith I can't reach Michelle will you check on her? But instead he babbles on about a purse. Well not really just a picture of a purse. Now we get information on a need to know basis. Spivey decided we needed to know the call was accounted for and recorded. Way to much speculation about maybe Meredith making it up. So Spivey set the record straight. If Jason was just trying to get someone at that house why did he use that dumb purse story? It looks like from the warrants he called Meredith minutes after he had tried Michelle twice. I wonder if Spivey has the actual words or just a time showing the call to Meredith. Maybe it will become a need to know soon .

Most murderers make dumb mistakes. After all the times that some posters have been proven wrong when additional information comes out, seems they might be getting the idea that they are being fed false information by those who claim to be close to the Young family. IMO

[reborn]

Jason, the grieving father, experienced the loss of not only his unborn son Rylan, but the unborn son his wife was carrying when she was slammed into the dashboard of the car when it careened into the river ... and how many people have come forward to describe not only Jason's grief over the loss of the first son's premature termination, but the second? In fact, no one has come forward to describe Jason's grief over the loss of his twosons ... as he has no grief. It's been 29 months since he murdered his youngest unborn son, and not one person; including Jason, has expressed any grief regarding the termination of the lives of his two sons. There is evidence that Jason had a hand in terminating the lives of two future sons, and couldn't care less.
There's no equity in Jason and Michelle Young's estate because they were living month to month, and were stretched beyond their means, especially with Jason out of work and taking vacations with his mom and sisters. Paying for girlfriends, even if they slept in Michelle's bedroom, while married added to the financial strain on the marriage.

If none of the witnesses said they witnessed violence, who said that Jason punched hole in the wall? who said the arguments were loud, who, in their right mind, claims that men who claim they want to murder their wives are not violent?

I made the one sentence bold . There has been no evidence presented what so ever that the clinical abortion Michelle had was even a son. If you knew anything about a clinical abortion you would know that the fetus was already dead and therefore decomposing. I seriously doubt that Michelle was told anything about the sex. Those babies are just suctioned out. Many babies die like this each year and the mother wasn't in an accident. So its just your opinion that is the reason this baby died. If you can present evidence that it was please do so.

[gbmy]

It is simple, really. Jason has not spoken a word since he murdered his wife. He had no choice but to settle both the wrongful death suit and the custody application against his wishes ... he had two choices: speak up, or lose. He chose to lose rather than speak up. Apparently his silence regarding his wife's murder is more important to him than any money from the life insurance police (about a million dollars) and custody of his only child.

Doesn't that say something?

Yes, of course it says something. We just don't know what. This is largely tied to the 'why is Jason not talking' discussion. I don't even want to go there because over the 2+ years this board has been active, we can only recycle previously expressed opinions that have been expressed ad nausea.

[Cardinal]

Back to the old print out. We don't know how many times Jason tried to call Michelle that day. LE has let us know of 2 but there could have been many more. Makes a lot more sense for Jason to have said Meredith I can't reach Michelle will you check on her? But instead he babbles on about a purse. Well not really just a picture of a purse. Now we get information on a need to know basis. Spivey decided we needed to know the call was accounted for and recorded. Way to much speculation about maybe Meredith making it up. So Spivey set the record straight. If Jason was just trying to get someone at that house why did he use that dumb purse story? It looks like from the warrants he called Meredith minutes after he had tried Michelle twice. I wonder if Spivey has the actual words or just a time showing the call to Meredith. Maybe it will become a need to know soon .

If Jason had said "I can't reach Michelle will you check on her?" it would be logical to assume he would expect a call back from Meredith, reporting on Michelle. Asking her to pick up a printout would not require a call back from Meredith.

JMO

[gbmy]

Silence suggest guilt? Interesting thought. Do you think that people think Jason is guilty only because he remains mute? I suggest you read the last 29 months of evidence, search warrants, and related court documents before you conclude that Jason is a suspect merely because he is silent.

Police have spent more than two years trying to sort out what happened the night that Michelle was murdered. They were slowed down, but not stopped, by the fact that Jason remained mute. Police were able to, and continue to, gather evidence regardless of Jason's lack of cooperation. Each piece of evidence that is gathered is weighed against Jason's innocence or guilt, and still the police are not able to rule him out ... after 29 months. In response to points 1 and 2:

1. There are a couple of questions that relate to Jason heading towards the exit at midnight (having only used his keycard once during his over night stay), Police did not make this public, but it was necessary to include this information in search warrants. The fact that the door was propped open the same evening at the same time has also been made public through search warrants. The police did not release this information.

2. I don't think there is video tape of the outside of the building, only the inside;
- No I don't think nor did I say that JY's silence was the sole reason people think he's guilty. That was your interpretation which this directly clarifies.

- I agree with all of the points you made in paragraph 2. When you say 'and still the police aren't able to rule him out after 29 months'......Another way to put that is (and both are accurate) is that they have not been able to gather enough evidence they/DA deems necessary for an arrest. We have no idea what or how much they are waiting for.

- Your comments on point #1 seem to make a clarification about the 'source' of the information in the public domain. I said police you said search warrants. Technically speaking, you're more correct, although it's the police that provide the info that goes into the SWs. This would be a silly point to discuss further.

- Your comments on point #2 suggest that you believe the reason there is no video of Jason walking out of the exit door into the evening air is because there is no video camera located outside. Am I understanding correctly? If so, then you also think the camera that showed him walking towards the exit was also not positioned in such a way (or 'maybe' didn't offer CONTINUOUS video as some have speculated) to actually show him walking outside? Just trying to understand your viewpoint.

[gbmy]

If I understand your response, you respect the concept of IUPG, as do I. I would point out, however, that concept is one of legal guilt rather than factual guilt - IOW, the jury's verdict cannot change whether or not the defendant actually committed the crime; it is only a manifestation of the state's ability to prove its case. And whether or not the DA can prove Jason left the hotel that night, the videotape that exists, viewed as a part of the whole case, may be more than sufficient to convince a jury. Juries are comprised of human beings, and human beings are going to want someone held accountable for the brutal murder of a lovely, intelligent, pregnant mother.

I completely agree with your spiritual reference, and my parents taught me to live my life that way. They also, however, taught me that one reaps what one sows. And I shudder to think how that applies to Jason Young.

JMO
Glad to hear we share common faith. And, I certainly agree with the first point you made. Even if Jason confesses, the only person who will have 100% certainty about his factual guilt (unless the murder was caught on tape which it wasn't) is whomever you believe is our divine power. So, the discussion of legally vs. factually innocent basically says that us mortals here on earth will never no for sure. Which means we can keep this board open forever and ever to keep talking about it!!! LOL

[Cardinal]

Glad to hear we share common faith. And, I certainly agree with the first point you made. Even if Jason confesses, the only person who will have 100% certainty about his factual guilt (unless the murder was caught on tape which it wasn't) is whomever you believe is our divine power. So, the discussion of legally vs. factually innocent basically says that us mortals here on earth will never no for sure. Which means we can keep this board open forever and ever to keep talking about it!!! LOL

Our divine power already knows whether or not Jason is factually guilty, and regardless of how things turn out on earth, I'm satisfied to leave the ultimate retribution to him, if warranted. We mortals will have to trust the justice system to establish whether or not Jason is legally guilty, and if he is, what punishment is due.

[gbmy]

Our divine power already knows whether or not Jason is factually guilty, and regardless of how things turn out on earth, I'm satisfied to leave the ultimate retribution to him, if warranted. We mortals will have to trust the justice system to establish whether or not Jason is legally guilty, and if he is, what punishment is due.
I concur. I'm also interested in your thoughts on my last post which addressed some points you made.

[Doorbell]

GMAB. There is absolutely no evidence Jason didn't want his son or didn't want to be a father.

NC isn't a community property state but even if it were, the Youngs had been married only three years. Not a lot of equity in their assets in that short period for anyone to choose murder over divorce.

None of the witnesses quoted in the search warrants said they witnessed violence.

Have we forgotten the insurance policy, so soon?

[Cardinal]

I concur. I'm also interested in your thoughts on my last post which addressed some points you made.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure which post you're referring to?

[gbmy]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure which post you're referring to?
oops, sorry. I was referring to my 3/29 post at 9:12am which was in reply to jester. That said, your opinion would be welcome also!

[5swab5]

Yeah, you're right. Point well taken about the lack of a criminal record and any real statistical relevance to spousal murders. Regarding him leaving the hotel, it's cool for us to share beliefs. But, our beliefs don't change facts. LE shared video of him in the hotel shortly before midnight walking towards the exit. That's a fact. LE did not share any proof with the public showing that he walked out the door into the evening air. That's a fact. Why do you think they'd share one and not the other?

They don't show Jason coming in from the evening air either but obviously he did. What difference does it make?

Jason only used his key card ONCE, six minutes after checking in. He is caught on tape an hour later in the lobby wearing different clothes.

I seriously doubt that he checked into the Hampton just to change clothes and then sleep in his car or in the stairwell. MOO

[janesdeaan]

Simple, really. Jason hasn't spoken to police so he signed that settlement agreement unaware of Meredith Fisher's status as a suspect in the murder of his wife and son.

IMO- Your theory that because Jason has refused to speak with the police so he is unaware that Meredith is a suspect, and therefore signed the custody agreement/consent uninformed and should be able to renig on it is wrong. It is his duty as Michelle's husband to check with LE on the status of the investigation into his wife's murder and just because he has not done this gives him no "free pass" to go back and change anything. He was represented by counsel (Alice Stubbs) when he entered into that custody agreement, if Meredith was a suspect wouldn't his attorney have found that out before any agreement was reached between Jason and Meredith ? I think so.

[janesdeaan]

ITA. LE hasn't cleared Meredith publicly and now they are referring media to the DA's office. Huge elephant in the living room, imo.

The Lead Detective has absolutely publicly cleared Meredith, he did that when he testified in court that after investigating this murder for 2.5 years, his opinion was Jason Young is the killer. He further testified that he believes Jason committed a PREMEDITATED murder at that. She's cleared, IMO

[janesdeaan]

snipped from stellagants post:

But according to your theory, if Michelle wanted to end the marriage, Jason should have been thrilled. It makes absolutely no sense that a man who wants to be with other women would murder his wife because she wants a divorce. :rolleyes:

As another poster on this board has stated repeatedly, NC has laws in place that Adulterers PAY alimony. So, in addition to child support for two kids for 18 years, Jason would have been required to pay Michelle alimony as well. I think that would have been plenty of motive for him to have committed this murder. The pot was sweetened because of the LI policy also, Jason would NOT have been thrilled if Michelle filed for divorce. IMO, big part of motive.

[Doorbell]

snipped from stellagants post:



As another poster on this board has stated repeatedly, NC has laws in place that Adulterers PAY alimony. So, in addition to child support for two kids for 18 years, Jason would have been required to pay Michelle alimony as well. I think that would have been plenty of motive for him to have committed this murder. The pot was sweetened because of the LI policy also, Jason would NOT have been thrilled if Michelle filed for divorce. IMO, big part of motive.

Exactly. And it's obvious from his emails with his sister, that he thought the investigation would die down and go away. That, IMO indicates consciousness of guilt, because what innocent man would want the investigation into his wife's murder to die down? In that exchange, he also cited the case of Raven and Janet Abaroa, who, he insisted, nobody remembers.

Well, guess what, Jason? A lot of us remember that case. Raven may seem to have got away with it, for now, but he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life! I think that was a very telling association for Jason to make.

[Jules2]

Exactly. And it's obvious from his emails with his sister, that he thought the investigation would die down and go away. That, IMO indicates consciousness of guilt, because what innocent man would want the investigation into his wife's murder to die down? In that exchange, he also cited the case of Raven and Janet Abaroa, who, he insisted, nobody remembers.

Well, guess what, Jason? A lot of us remember that case. Raven may seem to have got away with it, for now, but he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life! I think that was a very telling association for Jason to make.



Good point, Doorbell! Jason seemed to want everything to just "go away" didn't he?

What loving innocent husband would sit back and refuse to aid LE in finding the murderer of his wife?


What loving innocent husband would allow himself to be named the slayer in his wife's murder by not even attending court?


What loving innocent husband would continue contacting his "girlfriend" after his wife's murder?

What loving innocent husband would allow being stripped of full custody of his daughter?

What loving husband? There isn't one IMO!

[gbmy]

They don't show Jason coming in from the evening air either but obviously he did. What difference does it make?
<snipped>

That's a chicken and egg statement. You say he 'obviously' came in from the evening air. If you meant when he first entered the hotel to check-in then yes, that'd be a fact. If you meant anything else, then that'd be your opinion. Using your key once, changing your clothes, walking down a corridor towards an exit, and having a rock lodged in the door is not proof he left the hotel. A good lawyer would easily pick that apart. It's no crime to walk in the hallway of a hotel you've paid for a room in. Regarding using a key once, the defense would simply say (and they'd be right) that it's not that uncommon for people to leave their room door ajar when they briefly leave their room. And the rock? Where's the proof Jason put it there? If he did put it there so that he could re-enter the hotel, then it would stand to reason that they'd have him on video walking AWAY from the exit door when he returned.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff not the defendant.

[5swab5]

We know that a friend of Jason tells LE that Jason told him that he was unhappy in his marriage and never would have married Michelle Young if she had not gotten pregnant. This was sometime prior to the automobile "accident".

We know that Jason was a serial adulterer.

We know that Michelle and Jason's marriage was fraught with fights and they were not limited to fighting in private.

Kim Young even seems to voice concern in her email to Jason: When you called me when Michelle was pregnant and said you were getting married, I asked you if you were ready for that responsibility or if you would resent it?

October 4th to November 3rd. Approximately 980 phone calls and text messages between Jason and Michelle Money.

Weekend of October 7th, Jason goes to Florida to be with Michelle Money and they are intimate on two occasions. Verified by a friend of Jason. Jason told him that he loved Michelle Money and believed that she loved him as well. In addition, he said that Mrs. Money and her husband were trying to have a child, but Mrs. Money stated she hoped it would be his (Jason's).

October 28th, email from Jason to Michelle Money: I feel lucky to know you, much less love you, but i do.

On November 2nd, there were 50 phone contacts between Michelle Money and Jason Young.

Jason called Michelle Money last thing Nov. 2nd and she was his first phone call on the 3rd of November. She was also his last phone call before rolling into Brevard, for his falling plum to his knees display.

Phone records show that there were approximately 207 phone contacts between Jason and Michelle Money from Dec.18th to Jan 25th. Including at least one face to face meeting in Myrtle Beach.

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time.

From these little snippets one can see a disaster waiting to happen. It is evident that Jason was at the very least infatuated with Michelle Money, if not obsessed. People have killed for a whole lot less. MOO

[Barbara2]

That's a chicken and egg statement. You say he 'obviously' came in from the evening air. If you meant when he first entered the hotel to check-in then yes, that'd be a fact. If you meant anything else, then that'd be your opinion. Using your key once, changing your clothes, walking down a corridor towards an exit, and having a rock lodged in the door is not proof he left the hotel. A good lawyer would easily pick that apart. It's no crime to walk in the hallway of a hotel you've paid for a room in. Regarding using a key once, the defense would simply say (and they'd be right) that it's not that uncommon for people to leave their room door ajar when they briefly leave their room. And the rock? Where's the proof Jason put it there? If he did put it there so that he could re-enter the hotel, then it would stand to reason that they'd have him on video walking AWAY from the exit door when he returned.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff not the defendant.

Based on the detective's statement, we do know that there is evidence that has not been put out in public via a search warrant or any other means. We know they have more. We don't know what that "more" might be. I think that it is very possible that they have additional video of Jason that has not been made public.

[5swab5]

(snipped) Regarding using a key once, the defense would simply say (and they'd be right) that it's not that uncommon for people to leave their room door ajar when they briefly leave their room. And the rock? Where's the proof Jason put it there? If he did put it there so that he could re-enter the hotel, then it would stand to reason that they'd have him on video walking AWAY from the exit door when he returned.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff not the defendant.

*My Bold*

Good Luck with convincing a jury of that. Not in this day and age, no way. Not in N.C., not in V.A., not in the US of A.

Can't get a picture of Jason walking away from anywhere, when there aren't cameras on the outside of the building.

Guess the rock in the lock is just Jason's dumb luck, huh? Nope, that won't fly either. Jurors will use their common sense. MOO

[gbmy]

We know that a friend of Jason tells LE that Jason told him that he was unhappy in his marriage and never would have married Michelle Young if she had not gotten pregnant. This was sometime prior to the automobile "accident".

We know that Jason was a serial adulterer.

We know that Michelle and Jason's marriage was fraught with fights and they were not limited to fighting in private.

Kim Young even seems to voice concern in her email to Jason: When you called me when Michelle was pregnant and said you were getting married, I asked you if you were ready for that responsibility or if you would resent it?

October 4th to November 3rd. Approximately 980 phone calls and text messages between Jason and Michelle Money.

Weekend of October 7th, Jason goes to Florida to be with Michelle Money and they are intimate on two occasions. Verified by a friend of Jason. Jason told him that he loved Michelle Money and believed that she loved him as well. In addition, he said that Mrs. Money and her husband were trying to have a child, but Mrs. Money stated she hoped it would be his (Jason's).

October 28th, email from Jason to Michelle Money: I feel lucky to know you, much less love you, but i do.

On November 2nd, there were 50 phone contacts between Michelle Money and Jason Young.

Jason called Michelle Money last thing Nov. 2nd and she was his first phone call on the 3rd of November. She was also his last phone call before rolling into Brevard, for his falling plum to his knees display.

Phone records show that there were approximately 207 phone contacts between Jason and Michelle Money from Dec.18th to Jan 25th. Including at least one face to face meeting in Myrtle Beach.

I don't know how all this happened, but I know how it will end up...two broken hearts...but I don't care. I know there is pain in my future, but you are so worth it, even if it's only for a "blink" in time.

From these little snippets one can see a disaster waiting to happen. It is evident that Jason was at the very least infatuated with Michelle Money, if not obsessed. People have killed for a whole lot less. MOO
Yes, all of this information shows that Jason did indeed have inappropriate relationships with multiple woman and committed adultery with at least one of them. This is a grave sin. Very sickening.

[gbmy]

Based on the detective's statement, we do know that there is evidence that has not been put out in public via a search warrant or any other means. We know they have more. We don't know what that "more" might be. I think that it is very possible that they have additional video of Jason that has not been made public.
I think they almost certainly have information they haven't made public. If one of those pieces of info is video showing showing him walking out of the hotel exit into the evening air and a) not coming back in at all or b) coming back in 6 hours or so later, then he will have lost my support. I do not believe they have that. Time will tell.

[gbmy]

*My Bold*

Good Luck with convincing a jury of that. Not in this day and age, no way. Not in N.C., not in V.A., not in the US of A.

Can't get a picture of Jason walking away from anywhere, when there aren't cameras on the outside of the building.

Guess the rock in the lock is just Jason's dumb luck, huh? Nope, that won't fly either. Jurors will use their common sense. MOO
So, refresh my memory. Did the video footage showing Jason walking towards the hotel exit door not actually show the door? I could go back to the warrant to look but I'm too lazy right now. Do you know?

[Barbara2]

I think they almost certainly have information they haven't made public. If one of those pieces of info is video showing showing him walking out of the hotel exit into the evening air and a) not coming back in at all or b) coming back in 6 hours or so later, then he will have lost my support. I do not believe they have that. Time will tell.

Having video of him leaving and/or returning is STILL not evidence of murder. This particular DA is known for being unbelievably cautious, IMO. And this cautious DA does not want to reveal his evidence to the defense until he has to. I honestly think some people will be surprised at the amount of evidence in this case without arresting the suspect.

[gbmy]

Having video of him leaving and/or returning is STILL not evidence of murder. This particular DA is known for being unbelievably cautious, IMO. And this cautious DA does not want to reveal his evidence to the defense until he has to. I honestly think some people will be surprised at the amount of evidence in this case without arresting the suspect.
Well, short of having a crystal clear video of the murder while it's happening, you're probably not going to have one and only 1 thing being 'the' piece of evidence of murder. But, as part of their total case, if they can't clearly prove he left the hotel, then that presents a very large problem for them.

[Doorbell]

So, refresh my memory. Did the video footage showing Jason walking towards the hotel exit door not actually show the door? I could go back to the warrant to look but I'm too lazy right now. Do you know?
The still looks as if the camera is above the door. Jason is walking towards the camera. It may well not have caught him going out the door, if it records every several seconds, for instance.

IMO

[gbmy]

The still looks as if the camera is above the door. Jason is walking towards the camera. It may well not have caught him going out the door, if it records every several seconds, for instance.

IMO
Thank you! If the camera is above the door and records continuously, then depending on how it's angled, it would at a minimum show him very, very close to the door. Perhaps within arms reach. I think if it was physically impossible for the camera to show him walking out into the evening air, but it did show him say within arms reach, then that would be very convincing evidence that he left the hotel (to me anyway). It would also mean that they should have footage of him walking back in and would know what time that would have been. Does anyone see things differently in terms of what a continuously working video camera located right above an exit door taking continuous video (vs. periodic snapshots) would show? Obviously, the amount of time between snapshots would be relevant to how close the camera would catch him to the exit door.......But, if it's not continuous or there are lengthy gaps and JY actually did leave, then they'd never be able to prove it via video anyway.

[reborn]

If Jason had said "I can't reach Michelle will you check on her?" it would be logical to assume he would expect a call back from Meredith, reporting on Michelle. Asking her to pick up a printout would not require a call back from Meredith.

JMO

I'm not following your line of thinking. Jason wouldn't expect a call back? If Jason knew his wife was dead I am sure he would expect a call back. I have wondered why Meredith didn't call him. I have wondered why LE didn't call him. I know LE said they called and he hung up . I think that call took place when Jason was almost back in Raleigh and after a few friends had called and told him what certain people were saying. That call would have been made about 4 hrs after Meredith found Michelle. Any body know if Jason called Meredith back? I've heard Meredith called her mom and Jason's mom. Don't know if its true or not. Wonder why she didn't call Jason?

[Cardinal]

That's a chicken and egg statement. You say he 'obviously' came in from the evening air. If you meant when he first entered the hotel to check-in then yes, that'd be a fact. If you meant anything else, then that'd be your opinion. Using your key once, changing your clothes, walking down a corridor towards an exit, and having a rock lodged in the door is not proof he left the hotel. A good lawyer would easily pick that apart. It's no crime to walk in the hallway of a hotel you've paid for a room in. Regarding using a key once, the defense would simply say (and they'd be right) that it's not that uncommon for people to leave their room door ajar when they briefly leave their room. And the rock? Where's the proof Jason put it there? If he did put it there so that he could re-enter the hotel, then it would stand to reason that they'd have him on video walking AWAY from the exit door when he returned.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff not the defendant.

I conceded at the time that SW was made public that proving Jason left the hotel is problematic. I don't believe LE has a video of Jason walking through that door, simply because of the location of the camera.

And yes, I've left my door ajar with the security bar to leave my room briefly, BUT never when the door would be out of my sight and only when loading/unloading my luggage. A key card is not so difficult to carry or use.

As for the rock, no, LE can't prove Jason put it there, but it's highly coincidental that a rock would be found in the door on that particular night, particularly if hotel management can state they didn't typically find rocks in the doors. But the absence of a video of Jason returning through that door is irrelevant, because the rock was removed.

Like much of the CE in this case, each aspect can be refuted. But taken as a whole, it's overwhelming.

JMO