3/17 thru 8/17

[Texas-SE]

New reports in SL Trib & Las Vegas Review report Willie the thug has threatened Mohave County Arizona, over attempts to get Colorado City AZ police dept. decertified. Willie the thug is quoted as saying threateningly: “Ya’ll is going to be facing it. I used to not know what the term ‘ya’ll’ meant but ya’ll need to because it’s coming at ya,” Jessop said. “We have put the feds on notice and we have put the governor on notice.”

http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/41343047.html

From SL Trib: "Mohave County Sheriff Tom Sheahan: “If Mr. Jessop thinks that these threats are going to deter my action to bring honest law enforcement to that community in northern Arizona, he’s foolishly mistaken,” Sheahan said at the meeting. “My officers will be up there at any time I wish them to be there and they will go wherever I want them to go.”

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Is Willie boy out of touch with reality, threatening LE publicly? Stating he was putting the feds & State of Arizona on notice. What's Willie boy going to do if the feds come to short creek and take Warren Jeffs renta cops badges & guns away. :lol:
IMO Willie gone over the edge on this one!:tonguewag:

[Texas-SE]

Much has been written about how FLDS children have been treated, as a contrast how are the children of Eldorado, TX are treated. Here's a video from Eldorasdo Success newspaper that gives insight on how Eldorado treats it's children just 4 miles away from YFZ.:thumbsup:

http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/VideoPage4.html

[texski]

GO WILLIE GO, the more he talks the more he helps the rest of the world know what his bunch are really like.
i read a story from abc news that they made up a documentary in which they had actors portraying a flds family, middle age man, head wife, two other wives, and one young girl who was being married to the old man. they sat in a resturant and pretended to be arguing with the girl about the marriage. the point was to see if anyone in the resturant would come to the aid of the young girl.
i lost the story before i found out when it was to be shown. sounded interesting, not just another puff piece about how happy all the women were.
anyone know when it is to be shown?

[Texas-SE]

OLe Warren Jeffs has been slapped down again, the Arizona Supreme Court says no to Warren and his mouthpiece lawyers. His appeal has been slapped down. They can try to appeal to US Supreme Court, but such an appeal might only bring a laugh from the Justices.:w00t:
From TV station report: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=5884561

[walton]

Is this what your talking about Texski?

http://abcnews.go.com/WhatWouldYouDo/Story?id=7093224&page=1


Forced Into Polygamy in Public
What Would You Do If You Thought You Saw a Child Bride?

By ELISSA STOHLER and YARDENA SCHWARTZ



I didn't get to see the show. But I did see the clip.

I thought it very interesting and needless to say it brought tears to my eyes as well.

People helping people. You just can't beat that.

John Quinones once again comes thru.

[walton]

Much has been written about how FLDS children have been treated, as a contrast how are the children of Eldorado, TX are treated. Here's a video from Eldorasdo Success newspaper that gives insight on how Eldorado treats it's children just 4 miles away from YFZ.:thumbsup:

http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/VideoPage4.html

:smile: With all the new gadgets out, computer this, digital that.

I got my grandson a cowboy hat and a stick horse for Christmas. He also got the badge to put on his hat. The badge says Texas Rangers. No lie.

[walton]

I am going to do some research and see what I can find out. I do not for one minute believe all of these wives are as happy as they say they are.
As far as Willie is concerned I think because of everything this group has gotten away with in the past they are just cocky and think they can do as they please and nobody will say anything. It is time for a wake up call big time. It is time the authorities bring out the big ole 2x4 called justice and hit them with it.

jmoo

2x4 called justice? I know I don't say this often enough but I truly love all you guys. Ya'all :biggrin:

[Mayasmimi]

Odd article. Didn't get anything from it. Sad for the children. IMO.

[texski]

the abc show was very good but also sad. out of the hundreds of people watching the show only 4 tried to help. one was a man. if you can catch it somewhere watch it. i think all of our posters would have been on the warpath.

[walton]

From the article written: Watching the scene unfold, former child bride Elissa Wall was deeply moved. Contemplating how her own life might have been different if a stranger had stood up for her, she said, "It brought me to tears because I put myself in that situation, and I thought, 'You know, if my mother could have done that ... that would have changed everything.'"


Not one tried to save Elissa.

Not a one from the town she grew up in. Not a teacher, bishop, mailman nor a lawman. Not her brother, uncle, neighbor or even her mother.

Four people helping a complete stranger isn't a real good number but all it takes is one.

Awareness is the key.

[walton]

Over at the ABC site a person is able to watch the full episode of certain shows. This is one of them. ( Why do they do this? I mean is there a catch?)

However.... I get the message that an error has occurred and Video_2 is unable to find a Video render.

ok what the heck is a video render?




Texasmanblues tells it like it is once again. Check out his latest post.

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/ No BS, no fancy whistles, no flashing lights..... just like it is.

[walton]

Much has been written about how FLDS children have been treated, as a contrast how are the children of Eldorado, TX are treated. Here's a video from Eldorasdo Success newspaper that gives insight on how Eldorado treats it's children just 4 miles away from YFZ.:thumbsup:

http://www.myeldorado.net/Pages/VideoPage4.html


I just now got it. :biggrin:

[Texas-SE]

A legislative committee has opened investigation into YFZ raid last year. News media reports indicate that this will include legislation to improve CPS operations in this type of case. Also: "Darby is expected to join with Rep. Harvey Hilderbran, R-Kerrville, in filing a bill allowing CPS to remove adults from an alleged abuse situation."

Read entire article: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/11/legislative-panel-to-seek-lessons-learned-from/

Also here's the SL Trib's take on this story: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/03/texas-bill-related-to-yfz-ranch/

And as a recap the SL Trib reporter Brooke Adams wrote story on criminal
charges filed in Texas so far. http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/03/the-criminal-charges/

IMO expect many more charges to come, both state of Texas and federal. Yes IMO RICO & Mann Act charges will certainly be filed.:thumbup:

[texski]

i love this board when we get news like these, you make my day. going to get dressed up and go to a square dance. go getum cowboys.

[juliekan]

Merril Jessop deposition videos on YouTube: What do they say?

http://iperceive.net/merril-jessop-deposition-videos-on-youtube-what-do-they-say/#more-3319

Watch Merril chew gum and sleep at the same time :huh:

[walton]

He and Naomi share a secret. And it is bigger than all the rest of the secrets he shares with others. I wonder what it is.

I know that this was just a portion of what was taped but maybe later the rest will surface. (I hope)




Malonis did a super job.




Julie thank you.

[juliekan]

Speechless Spokesman

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

OBJECTION, NON RESPONSIVE! hammer

IRRITATED AND MEDICATED! :punch:

Who was the woman in the blue dress, I don't remember now, unless it was Annette?

[juliekan]

He and Naomi share a secret. And it is bigger than all the rest of the secrets he shares with others. I wonder what it is.

I know that this was just a portion of what was taped but maybe later the rest will surface. (I hope)






I agree about Merril and Naomi. :sneaky:

[texski]

Speechless Spokesman

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

OBJECTION, NON RESPONSIVE! hammer

IRRITATED AND MEDICATED! :punch:

Who was the woman in the blue dress, I don't remember now, unless it was Annette?

i watched just a small portion of the video of willie. he sure seemed to be a lot fatter than he was before. and seemed to be on medication. was this just the camera or for real. he sure does not look like he has done any work lately, is all the work at the texas compound being done by the women now?

[juliekan]

i watched just a small portion of the video of willie. he sure seemed to be a lot fatter than he was before. and seemed to be on medication. was this just the camera or for real. he sure does not look like he has done any work lately, is all the work at the texas compound being done by the women now?

some, I'm sure, but there are more kids than women.........:thumbdown:

[juliekan]

Hi grammy,
here's what I see about the girl you asked about:

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11901038

The Texas Dept. of Family and Protective Services filed a motion in San Angelo to drop the case of a 17-year-old who gave birth last summer -- but filed a new case against her in San Antonio. The new action asks a judge to order the young mother to cooperate in a CPS investigation to ensure the safety and welfare of her infant. It also wants mother and child to submit to DNA testing. The girl has refused to let authorities see her infant or collect DNA that might be used in a criminal prosecution.

San Antonio Judge Peter Sakai set a hearing on that motion for March
25.

[walton]

Well I get the impression that Willie doesn't much care for Malonis. I also get the impression that Willie could be dangerous. jmo

He didn't want to answer. Refused to answer. She asked it every which way and he still balked. The man sitting to Willies left told Willie to answer. Was it his lawyer? He still didn't want to but he did. Went in circles but he responded.

Someone should have had a blood pressure cuff on him.

Natalie Malonis did her job and I believe she did her job well. :thumbup:

[juliekan]

Well I get the impression that Willie doesn't much care for Malonis. I also get the impression that Willie could be dangerous. jmo

He didn't want to answer. Refused to answer. She asked it every which way and he still balked. The man sitting to Willies left told Willie to answer. Was it his lawyer? He still didn't want to but he did. Went in circles but he responded.

Someone should have had a blood pressure cuff on him.

Natalie Malonis did her job and I believe she did her job well. :thumbup:

my bolding

I felt like I needed a cuff on me watching it! I think that was his lawyer, since he leaned over and asked him something once.

[walton]

I can relate.

But did you hear how calm Malonis kept. She just kept on going. Didn't skip a beat.

At one point I thought I heard a huff and a puff and I thought he might get up but he didn't.

Something tells me he has a fast right.

[juliekan]

Attorneys ask judge to seal case involving Jeffs daughter
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/25/attorneys-ask-jusdge-to-seal-case-involving/#comments

In a joint motion filed Monday, attorneys for YFZ Ranch head Merril Jessop, sect spokesman Willie Jessop and the girl's mother, Annette Jeffs, asked 51st District Judge Barbara Walther to seal the case.

The motion argues the case should be sealed to prevent further dissemination that could harm Merril Jessop's criminal case, harm the girl further or embarrass Willie Jessop.


I can't believe they thought to add "harm the girl". You know it's all about Merril, Willie, and the exhibits attached to the the depos. Those guys were embarrassed when they saw the tapes of their depos online. I would be too, after Malonis took them to the woodshed.

[juliekan]

Ok I went and listened to their testimony and the biggest thing I noticed is these men have a real hate for women.



<snipped>

ITA, at least for women who dare to question them and don't "keep sweet".


http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/obey/

From Warren's writings:
So I voice this way you should always approach your husband, ladies, realizing he is to be or become God over you, if he hasn’t learned how.


So since these men think they are God over their women, they aren't used to having to answer to one. I noticed Merril even giving his female lawyer dirty looks when she indicated he had to answer about Naomi. What a nightmare for these straw gods, female attorneys and a female judge. :tonguewag:

[walton]

Hey Grammy did you say that there are some lawyers in your family?

Do some trading will ya? One homemade pie for some info.

What is this all about? http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/case.asp?FilingID=13849

I feel like a mouse in a maze over there. Click on this file to reach that file to get to the file that you passed while searching for the first file.

Huh? Yeah, I know that is what I said after the third attempt.

I forgot now exactly what brought me there but now that I had a peek I want to know what is behind all the clicking and files.


Does anyone know.... Is Willie related to Warren? And has Willie been to see Warren?

P.S. I'll trade you the easiest apple or peach cobbler recipe ever for the info. :)

[juliekan]

:shrug:Hey Walton,

Looks as bad as what TXbluesman posted at his site.

Jeffs vs Jeffs
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

OK, first, we have Isaac Jeffs suing himself (based on the address, technically it could be a suit by a son vs. a father since there is both an Isaac Jr., age 3,. and an Isaac Sr., but it doesn't appear likely).

Second, there are two Isaac Jeffs' listed as plaintiffs, and Barbara Jessop appears on both side of the case also.

Third, this case is for an accident (motor vehicle damage), which is apparently the one where Allen Rulon Jeffs, 3, was killed, where Richard Rulon Jeffs, 3, was critically injured, and where Isaac Steed Jeffs, Jr., 3 and the driver, Barbara Joy Jessop were both treated and released. Allen Jeffs was reportedly the son of a third Isaac Jeffs and Zevanda Jeffs, or possibly the second Isaac Jeffs and a plural wife.


I don't know whether to say :shrug: or :laugh:

[walton]

Texasbluesman he is the one that got me searching. I wanted to find out more but got sidetracked and Boom I was in the land of click on this click on that.

There is a file over there with Patricia Keates name on it. Yup, I am still searching for info on her.

If little Issacs attorney had to sue father Issacs insurance company to help with medical needs I guess I could see it.

But then would Big Issacs insurance sue Barbara Joy Jessop for monies because she was the driver? Wouldn't the insurance company then be suing themselves or would it be a wash?

[juliekan]

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

Criminal Enterprise? March 27, 2009


MR. SCHAFFER: At this time Mr. Jessop will refuse to answer that question based upon his Fifth Amendment privilege as well — under the federal constitution as well as the state constitution. As counsel propounding these questions knows there are federal investigations involving money laundering, mail fraud, wire fraud, Mann Act violations in federal court, in addition to any allegations being investigated by the state authorities.

MS. MALONIS: For the record, this counsel is not aware of that.

MR. SCHAFFER: You are now.

[walton]

Willie knows. Merill knows. Willie and Merills attorneys know. They all know that we know.

They just don't know how much is known.


:biggrin:

[Texas-SE]

I am sure that in time we are all going to know a lot more then we do now. The federal investigation should have happened a long time ago and I am glad to see it coming.
I have so many questions as to where all the money has come from and how they have lived all this time without a lot of the money worries that most of us face.
I have no doubt that they have been doing money laundering at the very least.
I think they know they are going to be facing many more charges and they will have to face what they have done.

jmoo

Appears that Sen Reid hasn't given up on forming task force on polygamy crimes. From news article: "These people who are doing this -- many of them are doing things that are immoral, and in many instances illegal," Reid said"

Read entire article: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12010802

Of course Willie the thug has to shoot his mouth off about Sen. Reid, calling the senator a sick minded individual. Seems to me that Willie and the boys of the FLDS are the sick minded folks in this case. barf

[walton]

This is for Blues.

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota_CCC_Jane_Blackmore_declines_to_be_on_CNN.ht ml printed in 2007
In the hills of South Dakota

Blackmore entered the property through a downed fence on the south side of the property. She was met by six men, two of whom were wearing wigs and all wore sunglasses. They each had a radio. One man, Wayne Fischer, carried a video camera.

In the hills of Colorado
http://www.themountainmail.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=12861

Wayne Fischer, 38 of Las Vegas, Nev., was arraigned in Chaffee County Court Wednesday in connection with the Jan. 10 traffic death of a 10-year-old girl and injury to others.

In addition, a 5-year-old girl, one of 15 people in the pickup truck driven by Fischer when it rolled on Monarch Pass, was seriously injured and two others received minor injuries requiring treatment at Heart of the Rockies Regional Medical Center in Salida.

follow up stories here: http://www.childbrides.org/colorado.html about halfway down approx 4-5 followups

I thought I posted this on Blues site but I can't see what link I gave him.

Blues there is also more on the Rohbocks. Texas Polygamy has a lot of info.

[walton]

Appears that Sen Reid hasn't given up on forming task force on polygamy crimes. From news article: "These people who are doing this -- many of them are doing things that are immoral, and in many instances illegal," Reid said"

Read entire article: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12010802

Of course Willie the thug has to shoot his mouth off about Sen. Reid, calling the senator a sick minded individual. Seems to me that Willie and the boys of the FLDS are the sick minded folks in this case. barf

Did you see the video of him with Malonis? Sitting on the edge of his chair he is. :) But if you notice him in the video with the "guys" over on Eldorado Success he seems to be quite comfortable.

[Texas-SE]

The San Angelo Standard Times newspaper published an interesting editorial which basically agrees with my opinion that CPS did the right thing.

The surprising thing is that I hear from relatives who are Southern Baptist, is fear this sets precedent for government to take their children. They don't like the FLDS over religious reasons, but object because of all children being taken, they fear some day a future government might someday take their children over a church state dispute.

From San Angelo newspaper: "If the FLDS raid, subsequent investigation and court action mean young girls will not be sexually abused in the future, it was well worth the time, effort and money."

Read entire editorial: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/29/editorial-lessons-learned-in-raid-on-yfz-ranch/

[Texas-SE]

The FLDS protested the burial of a child in cemetery in Colorado City, AZ claiming only FLDS members could be buried there, but later admitted that other non-FLDS persons had been buried. Sillie Wille moaned, "This is another example of our constitutional rights being violated by exerting corrupt powers over our church," Jessop said.

Read article: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12024648

Seems ole Willie was upset that the child buried was of the LDS faith.
Willie boy & the FLDS need to get used to idea that Wisan will sell off land, and the FLDS will not only find LDS living in Short Creek, but also Catholics & Baptists.

[Texas-SE]

Hi Texas,

I agree that the way the FLDS were treated could set a precedent, but I feel the state would not step in and take all children unless the workers see things that are not right. I think with the situation with the FLDS Texas had a right to be worried because of the going ons here in Utah and Arizona and with this group moving to Texas the history would follow them.
I can understand the concerns and it does bother me that this could happen to someone else. It can happen to individual families as well. But in most cases when children are taken there is usually something that warrants the taking of the children not just the say so on a caller.
I think Texas did the right thing in trying to protect these children. Also in other cases most of the time you do not hear about the parents making social workers waiting at the door while they destry evidence in the home.
This is exactly what the FLDS did for some I believe four hours before they were allowed in. Also most people do not lie about their and their childrens names and birthdates and so forth.
The FLDS did many things right from the begining that have been proven how deceitful this group is.
I think it is understandable that the authorities do not take the word of the FLDS as gospel because of their actions in the past. This group is like no other that I have heard about in a long time.

I would hope you were able to comfort your relatives about this issue. Most people are good and would never hurt their children in any circumstances.

I pray this does not happen to others in the future.
I think the history of the FLDS did follow them to Texas and from a couple of articles I have read it is following them to Colorado where David Allred bought property to supposedly build a retreat. The public is becoming more and more aware of what this group does and how they treat the women and children and that will eventually be their downfall.

jmoo
An excellent post. IMO the FLDS has been on PR campiagn, but the upcoming trials in AZ & TX will unmask them. IMO the rank & file FLDS members are the victims of Warren Jeffs and his crimes. IMO Warren Jeffs will be shown to a crook who skimed the tithes of the members for his own personal use, and ran the FLDS as cover for organized crimes, tax evasion, underage child labor as well as, underaged "wives".
What better way to launder money than through a church.:sneaky:

[texski]

i really wonder about the mentality of a group that would pick out willie as their spokesman.
it does help the outside world in learning more about them than they want us to know. do you think the real leaders are hiding behind this man???

[walton]

http://www.oprah.com/index

Oprah herself goes to the compound.

Other links at this site show Oprah inside. One of the links: Why Oprah had to see it for herself. Of course there is no answer at the link.

Go behind the scenes: Whoop de Do- Watch the kids ask Oprah questions about the Oprah show

Deep thought out questions never before asked.
1. Have you heard about Big Love?
2. How do you do that hair?



I can hardly wait.

I know that there has to be two sides to all news events but really.... how do you do the hair? and that is a lead in for all viewers wanting more? oy

[walton]

I wonder what the hold up is concerning Warrens trials?

How much more digging and fact finding could be left? Are they still trying to connect the trails?

Where is Wendell?

Allred boys?

Barlow boys?

Will charges be brought about against mothers and fathers who tried to play switch-em?

How about Dr. Barlow?

Will charges be brought against Giedon Barlows father?

Where is Mike Watkiss?

Words from Warren?

What ever happened to Wally B?

Who is in charge?

Rod Parker?

Berry Knoll? Harker farms? What did they find at the park?

Is there a Church? Where is the Church?

[Texas-SE]

http://www.oprah.com/index

Oprah herself goes to the compound.

Other links at this site show Oprah inside. One of the links: Why Oprah had to see it for herself. Of course there is no answer at the link.

Go behind the scenes: Whoop de Do- Watch the kids ask Oprah questions about the Oprah show

Deep thought out questions never before asked.
1. Have you heard about Big Love?
2. How do you do that hair?



I can hardly wait.

I know that there has to be two sides to all news events but really.... how do you do the hair? and that is a lead in for all viewers wanting more? oy

IMO this is nothing more than FLDS propaganda, Willie boys spin machine. In many of the photos on Oprah website pictures of convicted sex offender Warren Jeffs can be seen on the wall. Oprah sould have asked how can you have a photo of a convicted felon like that in your homes, don't you know he's in the pen for life?


Speaking of PR campaigns, here's another example of Willies disinformation machine at work: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/29/shaken/

[walton]

I watched Oprah. Oprah has lost her fire. But that is another story.

No toys? No play? Kids like to work? (That I don't doubt)

I hate to pick but they just aren't being honest about the simplest things.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-polygamists_04tex.ART.State.Edition2.4655eb9.html

Edson P. Jessop Jr. and his wife, Zavenda Young, returned to the ranch Tuesday afternoon in a pickup loaded with bicycles and toys – and their four children.

Then there are the pictures from NYT showing the kids with different toys.

And then:http://www.fldscrafts.com/ They make toys but don't let their kids play with them?

Why is anyone talking to Willie? Why does the FLDS allow Willie to talk?

If the Temple is useless to them then why wouldn't they let Oprah inside?

If these grounds are for anyone concerning the FLDS does that mean those from Short Creek could move there?

Betty might be 19 but she is 13-14 going on 15. jmo

After all this they still don't know that young girls were married to Warren?

I understand why Oprah hasn't been very vocal on this story. What I don't understand is why go thru the motion if she wasn't going to really investigate. Oprah has lost her fire. :(

jmo

[texski]

imo, oprah has become a toothless tiger. going thru the motions of a show, seems bored and making sure she does not do anything controversiel, her staff has obviously been told to do powder puffy shows. i have not watched her for several years so did not go there this week . but in my group of people she has really turned off her womens audience. she should retire and ask for some ambassodors job. and i know i cannot spell. but would have liked to see the girl child/young woman, betty jessop. please let us know if you hear of an honest show being made.

[walton]

From Texas-SE link: "It cost (Texas) $1 million to bus the children away," said Merril Jessop, the 73-year-old FLDS bishop who heads the ranch in Jeffs' absence. "How much do you think it cost to gather them up? They didn't do it."

Jessop leans over a large desk in the corner of his office. It's a clean desk, although to one side sits a printout of a recent newspaper article written about some of the ongoing court action in Texas. He has a genial manner, an easy smile and an ever-chirruping cell phone that he checks frequently.


Merill is at the ranch? And Willie? Is this another Lloyd Barlow or is it Dr. Lloyd Barlow?


Am I missing something?

[walton]

imo, oprah has become a toothless tiger. going thru the motions of a show, seems bored and making sure she does not do anything controversiel, her staff has obviously been told to do powder puffy shows. i have not watched her for several years so did not go there this week . but in my group of people she has really turned off her womens audience. she should retire and ask for some ambassodors job. and i know i cannot spell. but would have liked to see the girl child/young woman, betty jessop. please let us know if you hear of an honest show being made.

That is exactly it. Safe shows.

[walton]

http://www.azfamily.com/video/polygamy-index.html?nvid=338979

Mike Watkiss still investigating and still reporting. :)

Check out the videos. Ron and Ginger Cooke have been trying to get their water and power hooked up.

[walton]

What's up with Ben Winslow?

http://archive.deseretnews.com/search/?smartSearch=1&searchString=ben+winslow&searchbutton.x=0&searchbutton.y=0


Ben get your squeaky tennies on and start running.

[Texas-SE]

http://www.azfamily.com/video/polygamy-index.html?nvid=338979

Mike Watkiss still investigating and still reporting. :)

Check out the videos. Ron and Ginger Cooke have been trying to get their water and power hooked up.

Watkiss is still investigating, and Warren Jeffs lawyers are still acting the fool.

Newspaper article reports that Jeffs lawyers are trying to stall trial in Arizona over issue of raid by Texas LE on YFZ. Now what do events in Texas have to do with a trial over crimes commited before YFZ raid. If there had been no raid on YFZ in Texas, Arizona still would have went to trial based on evidence that would convict ole jail bird Warren Jeffs. How silly IMO, they must be stalling to try the give Willie the thugs propaganda campaign to work.:lol:

http://deseretnews.com/article/705294160/Texas-FLDS-case-stalls-earlier-case.html

From newspaper article: "Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven Conn has already agreed to defer ruling on the Arizona motion to suppress evidence until after a similar motion has been ruled on in Texas."

[Texas-SE]

From Texas-SE link: "It cost (Texas) $1 million to bus the children away," said Merril Jessop, the 73-year-old FLDS bishop who heads the ranch in Jeffs' absence. "How much do you think it cost to gather them up? They didn't do it."

Jessop leans over a large desk in the corner of his office. It's a clean desk, although to one side sits a printout of a recent newspaper article written about some of the ongoing court action in Texas. He has a genial manner, an easy smile and an ever-chirruping cell phone that he checks frequently.


Merill is at the ranch? And Willie? Is this another Lloyd Barlow or is it Dr. Lloyd Barlow?


Am I missing something?

No you're not missing anything, ole Merril the wife beater is still at YFZ, ole Willie the thug was at YFZ to give Oprah the Potemkin Village tour, but he apperently dosen't live there.
Speaking of FLDS PR stuff here's some posted on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYBCh4CQeHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvU_15-iXJs

Seems the FLDS has learned the folly of Warren Jeffs "tell them nothing".:rolleyes:

AS to the question about Dr. Frankenstein, ere Dr. Barlow, I don't know.:scared:

[walton]

Do you guys remember this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

For Jimmy it took 16 months.

We've seen the many articles about how the Ranch is doing a year later.

I would like to know what charges the feds plan on bringing to the table.

Bruce has been working on his stuff.

What has Gary Engles found?


Everybody else?

[walton]

No you're not missing anything, ole Merril the wife beater is still at YFZ, ole Willie the thug was at YFZ to give Oprah the Potemkin Village tour, but he apperently dosen't live there.
Speaking of FLDS PR stuff here's some posted on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYBCh4CQeHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvU_15-iXJs

Seems the FLDS has learned the folly of Warren Jeffs "tell them nothing".:rolleyes:

AS to the question about Dr. Frankenstein, ere Dr. Barlow, I don't know.:scared:

We can't be the only ones out here that notice the cat and mouse games being played.

The Feds have some major role players that we haven't really heard from.

Action= Reaction

[walton]

What is he really saying?

http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/1417908/mormon_compound_shows_few_signs_of_life/

The children and their parents, Edson Jessop, 51, and Zavenda Young, 43, had been home just a little over 24 hours Wednesday. They drove all night from Hockley in Harris County, where Anne and Russell had been staying at the Boys and Girls Country. Zachery and Ephraim were picked up first from a children's facility in Waco.

"It's just wonderful to have them all here," Young said. "I was lonesome when they were gone."

And further into the article: Documents taken from the ranch and introduced in court in San Angelo, known as the "Bishop's Records," show Edson Jessop having five spiritual wives and more than 40 children. "Why does the world want to change me?" he asked. "It's like trying to change the spots on a leopard. We are what we are."

I think Oprah asked the ladies what they call each other. And if memory serves me right they said "sister wives". boy I guess they aren't kidding when they say sister.

http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2008/10/linda-holm-funeral.html

Is Edson Merills son?

[walton]

http://www.oprah.com/article/oprahshow/20090325-orig-polygamist-ranch/4

On Oprah: One of the most controversial claims made after the raid was that authorities found beds in the temple that were supposedly used for men to have sex with young women who had just married in the church. Willie says this is absolutely not true. "If they found it, would they have returned the children? What they found was a facility for a groundskeeper or for worship," he says. "There is no religious ceremony that involves sex in any temple that I'm aware of or affiliated with."

Groundskeeper? OR for worship?

And the expert says: The bed is there, the expert says, because the FLDS members might fast, and when hundreds of people fast, there might be incidences of fainting.

To his knowledge, he says, no sex has occurred in the temple.

http://patterico.com/2008/04/18/flds-child-custody-ruling-testimony-day-2/

So where at would a "groundskeepers bed" be located? Or someone who might feel faint on 1st floor?

3rd floor. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21219/flds-yearning-for-zion-ranch

So either Willie is
1. a plant (or scape goat)(not sure which side)
2. messing with the reporters
3. an idiot (which I don't think he is)

Who the heck is pulling Willies strings?



Boy do I wish he would be sitting across the table from us or... Nancy Grace. No gum chewing and no naps. No hemming and hawing boom boom boom answer her now. :biggrin: It will never happen but the vision makes me smile.

[Debb]

http://www.oprah.com/article/oprahshow/20090325-orig-polygamist-ranch/4

On Oprah: One of the most controversial claims made after the raid was that authorities found beds in the temple that were supposedly used for men to have sex with young women who had just married in the church. Willie says this is absolutely not true. "If they found it, would they have returned the children? What they found was a facility for a groundskeeper or for worship," he says. "There is no religious ceremony that involves sex in any temple that I'm aware of or affiliated with."

Groundskeeper? OR for worship?

And the expert says: The bed is there, the expert says, because the FLDS members might fast, and when hundreds of people fast, there might be incidences of fainting.

To his knowledge, he says, no sex has occurred in the temple.

http://patterico.com/2008/04/18/flds-child-custody-ruling-testimony-day-2/

So where at would a "groundskeepers bed" be located? Or someone who might feel faint on 1st floor?

3rd floor. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21219/flds-yearning-for-zion-ranch

So either Willie is
1. a plant (or scape goat)(not sure which side)
2. messing with the reporters
3. an idiot (which I don't think he is)

Who the heck is pulling Willies strings?



Boy do I wish he would be sitting across the table from us or... Nancy Grace. No gum chewing and no naps. No hemming and hawing boom boom boom answer her now. :biggrin: It will never happen but the vision makes me smile.

Yes. It does make one smile. LOL.

I admit it was not a hard hitting interview by Oprah, but I don't think that was her point. If she handled the interview differently, say a NG approach, I doubt she would have gotten much from the women or the children. Also, she probably didn't want the one and maybe only experience they might have with a black person to be intimidating.

Still, I think the truth came out clearly. It is VERY obvious IMO that those people are very abused and deprived. They don't even know how to lie well. There are so many shocking things about it that I don't even know where to start.

It's sad though. I doubt anything will happen to save them because they don't even know they need helping. The girls don't even know it is ILLEGAL for adult men to have sex with young girls. HELLO. What does that tell you?

What I really wanted to see are the ones who are benefiting from the set up. Enough of he worker bees, where's the queen or king, I should say? Who is sitting on their throne and reaping the rewards. It's not the hardworking women and children who slave in the fields, kitchen and laundry. What do these top men do....except for Jeffs, that is?

The response about the grounds keeper and the church bed was too funny. Unbelievable.

[juliekan]

Hi Walton how's the knee?

I recorded the show and took a few notes. About the beds in the temple, Willie said the beds were "for worship." "For a spiritual experience...and a connection between members and their heavenly father." Wonder if that is FLDS-speak for consumating a marriage?

On the 3rd floor, hmmm, I guess that's like the saying about Texas women having big hair, that the higher the hair the closer to God.

When they were talking in the man's home they visited, he was asked "What would be your definition of sexual abuse? Is having sex with a minor considered sexual assault to you?"

He replied "It's a very interpretive topic." :huh: I'm pretty sure the laws in Texas are NOT open to interpretation on that topic!

About them swimming in their clothes: there was a group of them that showed up at the beach in Feb. when we were there. They didn't swim, but did play in the water with their long dresses on. Also, 2 weeks ago saw a FLDS looking father and son show up to do some carpentry work on the house across the street (at the beach). I guess some of them are still living in the area since I keep seeing them.

My daughter tried to watch the show, but got "grossed out." She says "that Willie guy is sketchy." :laugh:

[walton]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/22/lkl.02.html

Joining us here in Los Angeles is Maggie Jessop, a YFZ Ranch resident and FLDS member. She's the mother of four children in Texas state custody; Zavenda Young, YFZ Ranch resident, FLDS member, mother of four children, as well, in Texas state custody; and Willie Jessop, spokesperson for the YFZ Ranch families and a member, as well, of FLDS.

Now, there is some confusion on a lot of parts here. The Edson Jessop in Eldorado is married to Zavenda Young, right?

He is not married to Maggie Jessop, who is you. And Maggie Jessop is not married to Willie Jessop. I think I've got it all straight.

An interesting thing about Zavenda was she was married at 16 by a justice on the peace, right?

W. JESSOP: That is correct. And she can speak for herself.

KING: And you were married at age 16, right?

ZAVENDA YOUNG, HAS FOUR CHILDREN IN TEXAS CUSTODY: By a justice of the peace in Salt Lake City.

KING: And your husband was killed?

YOUNG: In Lake Powell.

KING: And then you remarried Mr....

YOUNG: There's no marriage. He's -- I'm just the mother of his children.

KING: Oh, you're the mother of his children without being married.



wow!!

[walton]

Yes. It does make one smile. LOL.

I admit it was not a hard hitting interview by Oprah, but I don't think that was her point. If she handled the interview differently, say a NG approach, I doubt she would have gotten much from the women or the children. Also, she probably didn't want the one and maybe only experience they might have with a black person to be intimidating.

Still, I think the truth came out clearly. It is VERY obvious IMO that those people are very abused and deprived. They don't even know how to lie well. There are so many shocking things about it that I don't even know where to start.

It's sad though. I doubt anything will happen to save them because they don't even know they need helping. The girls don't even know it is ILLEGAL for adult men to have sex with young girls. HELLO. What does that tell you?

What I really wanted to see are the ones who are benefiting from the set up. Enough of he worker bees, where's the queen or king, I should say? Who is sitting on their throne and reaping the rewards. It's not the hardworking women and children who slave in the fields, kitchen and laundry. What do these top men do....except for Jeffs, that is?

The response about the grounds keeper and the church bed was too funny. Unbelievable.


As I said before I understand why Oprah hasn't been very vocal about this story. And in her doing this show as she did she has generated more conversation and awareness. A good thing.

I was wondering where all the "men" were but if each man has 3 or more wives and how many kids... I guess there doesn't need to be a whole lot of "men".

Also missing were the teen boys.

Richard Jessop said that the Temple was useless and Willie said it is sacred.

Has Willie ever been to a service inside of a temple? Has Willie ever been to a service? If Walking Talking Willie grew up in a FLDS home he had to have had his nose in a corner an awful lot.

I wonder if Willie could talk about the history of the Keys, list the Prophets names or for that matter tell us how Short Creek came to be.
If Willie is staying at the Compound does he have one or all of his wives there? Who's watching his other homes? Who's farmin' the farm?

[walton]

Hi Walton how's the knee?

I recorded the show and took a few notes. About the beds in the temple, Willie said the beds were "for worship." "For a spiritual experience...and a connection between members and their heavenly father." Wonder if that is FLDS-speak for consumating a marriage?

On the 3rd floor, hmmm, I guess that's like the saying about Texas women having big hair, that the higher the hair the closer to God.

When they were talking in the man's home they visited, he was asked "What would be your definition of sexual abuse? Is having sex with a minor considered sexual assault to you?"

He replied "It's a very interpretive topic." :huh: I'm pretty sure the laws in Texas are NOT open to interpretation on that topic!

About them swimming in their clothes: there was a group of them that showed up at the beach in Feb. when we were there. They didn't swim, but did play in the water with their long dresses on. Also, 2 weeks ago saw a FLDS looking father and son show up to do some carpentry work on the house across the street (at the beach). I guess some of them are still living in the area since I keep seeing them.

My daughter tried to watch the show, but got "grossed out." She says "that Willie guy is sketchy." :laugh:

I still say Texas did the right thing. I think it was Edson that said he now knows that it is against the law to have young brides. But he didn't say that he knew it was against the law to have more than one bride.

Did anyone notice any mens clothing in the store? Did anyone notice anything odd about the "store"? Didn't they say they did all their own canning? Where were the peach trees? Pears? How about all the veggies?

How many people live at the compound now?

Julie- More tests being done but it went from extremely painful to painful.

[Texas-SE]

Do you guys remember this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

For Jimmy it took 16 months.

We've seen the many articles about how the Ranch is doing a year later.

I would like to know what charges the feds plan on bringing to the table.

Bruce has been working on his stuff.

What has Gary Engles found?


Everybody else?

Yes they busted Jim & Tammy for using church tithes for personal purposes, which Warren Jeffs is certainly guilty. But there are other guilty parties here IMO, and you can bet Bruce & Engles are on the hunt, the feds won't spring until they got the goods on the FLDS leadership, this is massive investigation, remember UEP was worth hundreds of millions, Wisan was able to get the real estate assets, but land sold before Wisan take over converted to cash, where's the money, Warren, Willie, Merril, Wendell? One is looking at fraud, money laundering, tax fraud, RICO, violations, Mann act-the list is endless, for the feds this is like trying to bust up major mafia org. It maybe the IRS that has the last laugh in this sordid case!:tonguewag:

[Debb]

I still say Texas did the right thing. I think it was Edson that said he now knows that it is against the law to have young brides. But he didn't say that he knew it was against the law to have more than one bride.

Did anyone notice any mens clothing in the store? Did anyone notice anything odd about the "store"? Didn't they say they did all their own canning? Where were the peach trees? Pears? How about all the veggies?

How many people live at the compound now?

Julie- More tests being done but it went from extremely painful to painful.

This is true. There are many things that created questions for me.

I wanted to see the cemetary. Are there any elderly people....people over 55?
What are they allowed to read? Has anyone from their facility ever gone to college?

I noticed Oprah said the students were taught earth science. Why do they forbid teachings about space? Doesn'the Mormon faith involve planets of another universe and God...Kolob?

There are so many questions the iterview invited. Perhaps Oprah will do a folow up.

[Texas-SE]

This is true. There are many things that created questions for me.

I wanted to see the cemetary. Are there any elderly people....people over 55?
What are they allowed to read? Has anyone from their facility ever gone to college?

I noticed Oprah said the students were taught earth science. Why do they forbid teachings about space? Doesn'the Mormon faith involve planets of another universe and God...Kolob?

There are so many questions the iterview invited. Perhaps Oprah will do a folow up.


The FLDS call them selves "Mormon", but their theology is so different from the LDS Church it's like the difference from night & day. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has a website where you can ask them questions about their beliefs. http://www.mormon.org

Or call them at: 1-888-537-6600

IMO Warren Jefffs has used religion like Jim & Tammy Baker to pad their pockets and a multi-state international crime organization in the guise of a religion.

[juliekan]

Texas you are so right. There is a world of difference in the two groups. I also agree with you that the FLDS do use their so called religion to line their pockets.
You will not find anything that the FLDS do anything for the good of people, but you will find many instances where the LDS church does for the good of the people.

Also I believe the FLDS do not talk about science in terms of space because they would have to admit there is a higher being other then their so called prophet.

jmoo

my bolding

that's one of the things that scared my daughter off, she said "they think that guy is like GOD?!"

[Debb]

Perhaps I have watched too much Big Love, but I thought that the only theological difference between the groups is that one believes in plural marriage and the mainstrean Mormon church (LDS) does not. I thought they both believe in the teachings of the prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and others, Baptism for the dead, men will become Gods in the hereafter, sealing marriages, etc. I realize they are very different in their view of the world and intergration into modern society.

Thanks for he link on the church. I'll check it out further.

[walton]

http://deseretnews.com/article/705294325/Police-investigate-bullion-thefts.html

Police are investigating a pair of thefts involving millions in gold and silver, which may be connected to several members of a polygamous family.

Two men have been arrested, accused of stealing about $70,000 worth of silver bars from a home in the Millcreek area last month. West Jordan police are also trying to investigate a woman's claim that $5 million in gold bars were stolen from her home — but she is no longer talking to detectives.

[walton]

And from Nate Carlisle http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12037761

Another golden mystery

Zions Bank is trying to find a woman who sold its Washington, Utah, branch office thousands of dollars in gold coins at a fraction of their value.

On March 16, the woman asked to trade in coins labeled "$20." The coins were minted from 1875 to 1927, said Zions spokesman Rob Brough. The bank paid face value but later realized they may be worth $1,000 each, he said.

Anyone with information about the woman, described as white, in her 20s or 30s, about 5 foot 6 and having short hair, can contact Zions at 801-844-7979.

Brough said there's no indication the coins are related to gold reported stolen from the West Jordan home of Patty Brown Kingston.

[juliekan]

Walton,
Heavenly coffee....:laugh:

[juliekan]

http://deseretnews.com/article/705294325/Police-investigate-bullion-thefts.html

Police are investigating a pair of thefts involving millions in gold and silver, which may be connected to several members of a polygamous family.

Two men have been arrested, accused of stealing about $70,000 worth of silver bars from a home in the Millcreek area last month. West Jordan police are also trying to investigate a woman's claim that $5 million in gold bars were stolen from her home — but she is no longer talking to detectives.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_12037761?source=rss

I couldn't get the link to work, I think this is the same thing...

[walton]

Walton,
Heavenly coffee....:laugh:

I know. I know. Bad Walton. I actually tried to buy one of the shirts from a local book dealer there. He didn't have any.

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=6018437

His Arizona lawyer is trying to show that the Texas raid, reportedly set off by a hoax phone call from a Colorado woman, shows that authorities acted in reckless disregard of the truth.

Piccarreta acknowledged that his efforts are mostly a symbolic gesture borne out of frustration with Texas authorities.

"The affidavit for the (Texas) search warrants is a lie," Piccarreta said Monday. "Everyone involved knew the facts were untrue."

Piccarreta is feeling the stress. He should just come here and share his troubles so he doesn't take this case home with him nightly.

Hey Piccarreta if you need someone to talk to.... I am here for ya buddy.:smile: I am being sincere. It isn't good to keep things all bottled up inside.

[juliekan]

FLDS men seek to consolidate motion to suppress evidence

http://deseretnews.com/article/705294284/FLDS-men-seek-to-consolidate-motion-to-suppress-evidence.html

Attorneys for the 12 men ask the judge to consolidate their motion to suppress evidence into one challenge, since all of the men will be raising similar issues (with some exceptions) and each agrees to be bound by the judge's decision. A judge has set a May hearing on motions to suppress evidence.

Also, Child Protective Services is seeking to take Merianne out of foster care and place her with a relative. A May hearing has been scheduled on that matter.

[Texas-SE]

Before the raid at YFZ, the "pilot's" photos kept everyone up on what was going on. The SL Trib's Brooke Adams posted this article: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/04/yfz-ranch-looking-back-part-four/

From article: "For five years, he regularly flew overhead, documenting construction projects and people. Last spring, as law officers prepared to enter the ranch, they turned to Doyle for help."

IMO, Good Job Pilot!:thumbsup: http://web.sccn2.net/flds/

[Texas-SE]

Appears that Mike Watkiss thinks Oprah got played for the fool by the FLDS at YFZ. Watch video, Watkiss has harsh words for Oprah.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/polygamy-index.html?nvid=347265

IMO he's correct, Oprah got taken for a ride by Willie boys con game.:w00t:

[walton]

Mike Watkiss is right. They won't allow him inside because he does follow thru with the questions. He doesn't give up and he does know the history. Boy does he know the history. And he still has the fire within.

But it sure would be interesting to watch. It would be more than an hour show I can tell you that.

When Oprah was asked Willie how the children would respond to her because of the way she looks and Willie got that goofy look on his face when he is about to lie, she knew it, I knew it and Willie knew it.

She wanted to say more but she didn't. Why do you suppose that is? She couldn't. She made a deal with someone.

Who is the one making all the deals? Willie? I don't think so. Someone is pulling Willies strings. So who is it?

[walton]

The paper kid hasn't been to my house yet but check this out.

http://myeldorado.net/ :ohmy:



Hey Texas-SE

I saw the article about the Pilot. I think that is the first time I've seen a picture of him. I think he should have a scarf with the name The Pilot on.

He is right about the compound and all the building. It is amazing what was done there in such a short period of time.

[Texas-SE]

I did not get to see Oprah but from what I have read and what Mike was saying I probably saved myself a lot of grief. I would have been yelling at the tv for Oprah to ask the hard questions and saying what a scam Willie and the rest were doing.
These people do not know how to tell the truth and they are back peddling to make themselves look good to the public now that the public knows exactly what they have done and are doing.

I also discussed with my hubby tonight about the issue with the attorney's wanting all cases consolidated into one and no info let out to the public. He said there is no way they can consolidate the cases because they are individual cases and he says that if those attorneys are using the excuse to save the state money they are full of it. Each case involves different victims so they cannot be consolidated.

On the issue in Arizona I think the attorney is just posturing and grandstanding. He cannot prove one way or another what the LE were thinking and he is trying to brow beat them into giving their thoughts. But as he will knows their thoughts cannot be brought into the cases. The only thing that applies is what is physically known.
I do not believe for one moment that anybody in authority knew that it was a hoax call that brought on the raid. If I was a young girl who reported this I would not make myself known either. I would be afraid of both sides of the fence. As far as I can tell Jeffs is just going to have to fight the case in AZ on what evidence they now have. As far as I can see Jeffs is sunk no matter which way you look at it. He might as well quit while he is behind.

Yes you hit the nail on the head with this post. Not only has Warren Jeffs's lawyers made them selves look silly, the actions of ole Willie the thug appears to have set FLDS up for more criminal prosecution. Read article at this link:
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/04/oprah-helps-texas-prove-additional-case.html

Would have liked to post entire article, but copyright rules apply.

[Texas-SE]

Flora Jessop & Elissa Wall were in Houston, Texas speaking about the FLDS and how to deal with them. From TV station: "Wall says she once considered FLDS leader Warren Jeffs "God on Earth."
But Wall eventually testified against Jeffs and helped send him to prison."

See entire article: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/090402_polygamist_sect_speeches

Also: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=6740626

[Texas-SE]

The FLDS is having a party today & tomorrow at the one year anniversary of YFZ raid. From newspaper article:

"Their prairie dresses and distinctive hairstyles still look perfectly suited to Fort Concho, which itself seems frozen in time, and probably will today, when members of the FLDS polygamous sect return en masse to commemorate the anniversary of their children's removal from the YFZ Ranch in Schleicher County."

Read entire article: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/03/flds-members-to-visit-fort/

Wonder if any news media will show up like Mike Watkiss or Randy Mankin, news media types the FLDS hates. Of course most cockroaches hate it when the light of day exposes there activities, and the above news media types have certainly shown the light on Warren, Willie and the rest of the crooks IMO.:smile:

[juliekan]

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/42365887.html#

Revisiting Texas polygamist retreat, one year later

Since the raid last year, the FLDS has said it will not sanction underage marriages. In the past, Jeffs has only acknowledged whether a girl has reached puberty, ignoring her legal age.

''I say, in the name of the Lord, there is no underage marriage in a priesthood marriage, in celestial marriage. God has the right to rule. The Lord had me take these two underage girls on purpose, to show that I and we, this people, are with him, with God, not fearing man,'' he wrote in 2003.

Who really thinks the FLDS will stop underage marriage, if the prophet has not spoken to change this practice? Willie saying they won't do it anymore doesn't amount to a hill of beans.


Also at this site: look at picture #7, the "groundskeeper's bed". Yeah that room looks like a groundskeeper's bedroom. :punch:

A confidential informant told investigators (per court documents) that the temple bed was used to consummate marriages, including some involving underage brides. Church officials have denied the allegation.

[Texas-SE]

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/42365887.html#

Revisiting Texas polygamist retreat, one year later

Since the raid last year, the FLDS has said it will not sanction underage marriages. In the past, Jeffs has only acknowledged whether a girl has reached puberty, ignoring her legal age.

''I say, in the name of the Lord, there is no underage marriage in a priesthood marriage, in celestial marriage. God has the right to rule. The Lord had me take these two underage girls on purpose, to show that I and we, this people, are with him, with God, not fearing man,'' he wrote in 2003.

Who really thinks the FLDS will stop underage marriage, if the prophet has not spoken to change this practice? Willie saying they won't do it anymore doesn't amount to a hill of beans.


Also at this site: look at picture #7, the "groundskeeper's bed". Yeah that room looks like a groundskeeper's bedroom. :punch:

A confidential informant told investigators (per court documents) that the temple bed was used to consummate marriages, including some involving underage brides. Church officials have denied the allegation.

Thanks for the link, it is a well written article. Picture #7 is like nothing I have ever seen in my life. That's diffently not a custodians sleeping qauters. I don't think I haver seen anything like that in place of worship, and I have been in Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and a LDS temple. Wow how wierd is that, a bed in a temple, why's it there?:ohmy:

Perhaps the informant is right, Ole Oprah was certainly feed a lie by Ole Willie the thug wasn't she.:blink:

[walton]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205948,00.html

written in 2006

"It's really important that the people in Colorado City remember what we stood for, what our old leaders stood for," Blackmore said. "If they could get that back, then maybe some of these families would take the initiative and gather together to get this community back to what it was."

The Short Creek raid of July 26, 1953 was meant to destroy the practice of plural marriage a central tenet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, whose members have lived along the Utah-Arizona border for more than 100 years.

[walton]

I had posted this over at Brookes blog and I thought I'd share those same words here:

What are they celebrating? For a year I’ve been reading how the FLDS at the YFZ compound say they have been wronged.
For a year they have been saying that their children fear outsiders, buses and men with guns.
For a year I’ve read that they want to protect their children. Keep them from harm.
We’ve watched videos of adults asking them questions about the raid, and their parents telling reporters how frightened their children still are.

And so what do they do? Dress them up and take them to a place that wronged them?

What things will those children hear after a year of hearing the negative things that all of sudden day 365 let us go have a picnic?

I think it is wrong. Showing me a video of them celebrating little Max’s birthday.
Show me a video of Susie and Frankie going to the Eldorado Public Library.
Show me a video of Amy getting her drivers permit.

Please don’t show me any more videos of the FLDS playing mind games with their children.

[juliekan]

Thanks Walton, eloquently said.

[Texas-SE]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205948,00.html

written in 2006

"It's really important that the people in Colorado City remember what we stood for, what our old leaders stood for," Blackmore said. "If they could get that back, then maybe some of these families would take the initiative and gather together to get this community back to what it was."

The Short Creek raid of July 26, 1953 was meant to destroy the practice of plural marriage a central tenet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, whose members have lived along the Utah-Arizona border for more than 100 years.

Strange the things that FLDS thinks should be celebrated, speaking of the one year anniversery of YFZ raid, here's what Sheriff Doran had to say on San Angelo TV staion: http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=33411

And http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=33512

[juliekan]

One year later, FLDS members return to Fort Concho

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/03/one-year-later-flds-members-return-to-fort/

"It's amazing," the mother of five said "I'm just so grateful. Grateful we were protected and taken care of."

[walton]

http://deseretnews.com/article/705295075/FLDS-criminal-probes-slow-down.html

For years, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff's office has been conducting criminal investigations into the Fundamentalist LDS Church and its leader, Warren Jeffs — including an organized crime probe.

But those investigations appear to have taken a backseat to other criminal cases coming out of last year's raid on the polygamous sect's YFZ Ranch.

"We don't have stuff ready to even talk about bringing charges," Shurtleff told the Deseret News. "Besides, with everything going on in Texas and Arizona, our office is waiting."

Law enforcement from Utah, Arizona, Texas and Nevada met in Las Vegas just weeks after the raid to begin sharing information on the FLDS Church. It led to the creation of a database, where information and evidence would be shared among the states.



Met in Vegas.

[walton]

Strange the things that FLDS thinks should be celebrated, speaking of the one year anniversery of YFZ raid, here's what Sheriff Doran had to say on San Angelo TV staion: http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=33411

And http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=33512


I still gotta give a thumbs up to Doran. I think he did a fine job and I think he did it right.

When Warren was missing and they thought Warren was at the Ranch he didn't go busting in like so many wanted. He was careful and by the book.

I never knew about that channel until today. Thanks for the links.

[walton]

http://deseretnews.com/article/705294982/FLDS-mark-anniversary-of-raid.html
by Paul Anthony and Ben Winslow

This link includes photos taken from the celebration.


"We love and appreciate the kindnesses" shown by the community, said church spokesman Willie Jessop. "I feel a personal responsibility that our people and community reach out and show our gratitude. So many wonderful people were not responsible for this but were responsible for us feeling like God blessed Texas."


"Our people." :mad: Who is he? Who made him prophet?

I hope the next video I see is one asking that question and getting answers. If Willie doesn't want to tell the world, he should call me. I wanna know.

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/

There is a small video over here about the gathering at Fort Concho.

The video is located near the bottom on the right hand side.
Nice video. (Willie free)





off topic (kinda)- Here is a true fishing story.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/04/local-teen-has-fish-tale-of-a-lifetime/

Around dusk on a Saturday, 14-year-old Logan Webb struggled to reel in his fishing line. He immediately knew the fish was big.

He didn't know how big until he pulled it onto his kayak.

The San Angelo teen caught the biggest hybrid striped bass ever taken out of Lake Nasworthy, Texas wildlife officials say. The fish, caught on March 28, might be certified as the juvenile record for the state.

And a picture to prove it. : http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/31/youth-breaks-lake-nasworthy-striped-bass-record/

I am loving it for a lot of reasons. :)

[walton]

On Brookes blog she has something called a Twitter Feed. :confused: (I can't keep up with all this new stuff)

One of the entries she talks about how she could best describe her experience covering the FLDS story.

I hope she does.

After following this for so long as a reader I have come to respect those that do this for a living even more.

[walton]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Brooke shares some of her experiences covering the story.

She and Trent make a good team. I just had to copy and paste this part.

As I remember it, Trent was standing a few feet away from me. I called out his name, locked eyes and nodded my head in the direction of the bus. He looked over. Neither of us said a word. He just stepped up to the sidewalk. I stepped away from him so we were less noticeable and kept my notebook in my pocket. He started shooting photos without a flash.

:smile:

[Texas-SE]

Walton may have posted this link in the past, it's a documentary on FLDS, some what dated as it only covers time period up to beginning of YFZ. I agree with Ed Smart's statement at about 36 minutes into video stating, " I can't imagine a god that would do that." In reference to Warren Jeffs & FLDS. Also interesting towards end of video none other than ole Willie the thug showing up and threatening Mike Watkiss, ole Willie had that weird smile when he lies. Around 40 minutes into video.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/?z=y&nvid=236533

[juliekan]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Brooke shares some of her experiences covering the story.

She and Trent make a good team. I just had to copy and paste this part.

As I remember it, Trent was standing a few feet away from me. I called out his name, locked eyes and nodded my head in the direction of the bus. He looked over. Neither of us said a word. He just stepped up to the sidewalk. I stepped away from him so we were less noticeable and kept my notebook in my pocket. He started shooting photos without a flash.

:smile:

silly me, I'm a little offended she said the Abilene airport had a dirt parking lot. i've flown in and out of there for years, and the parking lot is paved.

http://www.abilenetx.com/Airport/image/abiterminallarge.jpg

[walton]

Texas-SE

Here is some more from Mike Watkiss. This is loaded with info. This whole thing didn't start with the Texas Raid. A lot of people who saw the great big headlines didn't go further into the story and stories.

A lot of people jumped on the band-wagon because of the Raid. Some people who imo have their own agenda for attaching themselves to the story.

The reason some people are headline chasers is because most reporters do not follow thru.

If you notice the time line on some of this there have been some very dedicated reporters and photographers that have been there over the years. A HUGE thumbs up to those and their editors and outlets that have given them the room to continue. Awareness is the key.

But it is also one of those continuing stories that just crawls under a persons skin.

Hard to walk away when the voices of Ruth Cooke, Pennie Peterson, Pam Black, Johnnie Jessop, Caroline, and so many others have echoed in my mind.

Also hard to forget are the words from Geidon Barlow, the Blackmore kids, Dan Fischer talking about his father, the story about Parley Jeffs Dutson and the lists just go on.

At this link you will find a tab buttons located near the top. Each page has story after story. Some with videos.

I guess I should have sent this to Oprah. j/k I know she has seen it.
Which makes me wonder even more how and who is pulling the strings.

http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/index3.html

[walton]

silly me, I'm a little offended she said the Abilene airport had a dirt parking lot. i've flown in and out of there for years, and the parking lot is paved.

http://www.abilenetx.com/Airport/image/abiterminallarge.jpg


Nice. Very nice.

I won't show you the picture of farmer Bob standing on his tractor seat waving his flashlight back and forth trying to bring in the airplane.

The very same air-plane that is used for crop dusting.

:) Truly I am just kidding.

I think it is cool that Brooke is sharing. I remember seeing a clip about Mike Watkiss sometime ago and he shared a little about what it was like following this story. Interesting.

As one that has been following their words and their pictures I can only imagine.

I am a lucky person. And a grateful one.

[juliekan]

http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/

Blanket Warrants and Multiple Residences

“The general rule is that probable cause must exist to search each unit or separate residence of a multi-unit complex. This rule does not apply, however, if the premises are occupied in common or if the entire premises are suspect.”

and

This is probably why in the realm of real lawyers who represent real defendants (i.e. the lawyers representing the real YFZ defendants) it appears this issue hasn't been raised.

[juliekan]

Nice. Very nice.

I won't show you the picture of farmer Bob standing on his tractor seat waving his flashlight back and forth trying to bring in the airplane.



:laugh: The way the landing strips are, though, there is a section of highway where you feel like the planes are going to land on your car, coming across a field to land at the airport.

[Texas-SE]

New media reports that Warren Jeffs lawyers got slapped down by Judge Conn. From newspaper: "Judge Steven Conn denied a motion Monday to strike parts of Mohave (Ariz.) County Attorney Matt Smith's response to Jeffs' motion to suppress evidence from the raid of the church's YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas."

Read entire article: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705295608/Arizona-judge-denies-motion-by-Jeffs-attorneys.html

Guess ole Michael Piccarreta and Richard Wright will have to just eat crow! LMAO!:w00t:

[walton]

http://thehopeorg.org/news_arizona_TC_Warren_is_Tucson_lawyers_latest_hi gh-profile_client.html

Piccarreta, who is currently the state chairman of the American College of Trial Lawyers, said Jeffs has been "nothing but a pleasure to work with."

"Mr. Jeffs is a very quiet, thoughtful and deeply religious man," Piccarreta said.

No trial date has yet been set in the Jeffs case.



Check the photo here. Who is the guy on the left?

I think Piccarreta is warming up.

1-800- Walton. Anytime Piccarreta. Just call. I'll listen. :)

[walton]

New media reports that Warren Jeffs lawyers got slapped down by Judge Conn. From newspaper: "Judge Steven Conn denied a motion Monday to strike parts of Mohave (Ariz.) County Attorney Matt Smith's response to Jeffs' motion to suppress evidence from the raid of the church's YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas."

Read entire article: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705295608/Arizona-judge-denies-motion-by-Jeffs-attorneys.html

Guess ole Michael Piccarreta and Richard Wright will have to just eat crow! LMAO!:w00t:

The trials will start in Texas right? Texas will have Warren in their jails? And then will they send him back to Arizona?

Do you think they will be charging some of the mothers and fathers?

[walton]

Could this be the same William Sunderland Jessop that died at the YFZ compound?


http://www.dps.nm.org/newsReleases/NMSP/2004/NMSPnewsRelease_04.07.04.htm

[juliekan]

http://thehopeorg.org/news_arizona_TC_Warren_is_Tucson_lawyers_latest_hi gh-profile_client.html


Check the photo here. Who is the guy on the left?

I think Piccarreta is warming up.

1-800- Walton. Anytime Piccarreta. Just call. I'll listen. :)

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/metro/217189.php

Mayor Bobby Sutton Jr. is in the pic

[juliekan]

FLDS - Warren Loses Another Motion

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/04/flds-warren-loses-another-motion.html

this explains Judge Conn's rulings

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_12100752


There should be a task force.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705296001/Texas-drops-fight-over-FLDS-baby.html

Texas child welfare authorities are apparently backing off their demand for DNA testing of a baby born to a 17-year-old girl from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch.

Texas authorities confirmed to the Deseret News that the girl did not appear at a hearing scheduled Tuesday in San Antonio. Texas Child Protective Services spokesman Patrick Crimmins said that the girl was unable to be served, so they dropped the matter.

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6100982

Family finds tie between two men killed in burning cars
April 8th, 2009 @ 10:00pm
By John Hollenhorst

UTAH COUNTY -- A grieving family thinks it's found something that could tie together three mysterious deaths in burning automobiles.

So far, law enforcement investigators have not revealed any links between the three gruesome deaths, but one victim's family stepped forward today with a startling claim: that the connection could be in the shadowy world of sex abuse, and possibly polygamy.

more here: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6069720

Lorin Fischer
Zach Ruble
Greg M. Nelson

Connections or not all three are very suspicious.

I've read a lot of John Hollenhorst work. He isn't one to throw things out there with out warrant. jmo I've been reading about this for a couple of days now. I wasn't sure if I was going to post anything or not. But then I saw the story about Greg M Nelsons ex wife.

Families want to know.

[walton]

Greg M. Nelson obit guest book: http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookID=1421759620166&page=2

This is just a part of a comment left at the guest book.

"I admired his ability to "suit up " and "show up" every day and slay his dragons. And get up and try even harder the next day. I will miss my friend and
pray for solace to his loved ones in the long days ahead without that smile that made our world a little brighter. "


I've copied and pasted and saved the whole comment.

"suit up" and "show up" ???? "slay his dragons" ????

[walton]

http://tapoutftp.com/punkass/?p=132

Zach Ruble says:
March 21, 2009 at 10:40 am

To the Tapout family, Punkass and Scrape

deepest condolences on the lost of Mask, he is one of a kind, and will be truely missed by more poeple that one may ever know. you all have touched so many. My life has been blessed with many great influences, inspiring me to alway work toward my dreams, and simply believe that I can do anything, none more unmistakably greater than that of charles and the tapout crew. “Life is full of influences, Knowing that through tenacity and patience anything can be achieved” the word of the great Mask, travel with me every day on patrol, to the gym, and every step of my day. may his dream live on though us all

God bless you with understanding and love

zach ruble

Knowing that through tenacity and patience anything can be achieved” the word of the great Mask, travel with me every day on patrol, to the gym, and every step of my day. may his dream live on though us all


Patrol?

[juliekan]

Greg M. Nelson obit guest book: http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookID=1421759620166&page=2

This is just a part of a comment left at the guest book.

"I admired his ability to "suit up " and "show up" every day and slay his dragons. And get up and try even harder the next day. I will miss my friend and
pray for solace to his loved ones in the long days ahead without that smile that made our world a little brighter. "


I've copied and pasted and saved the whole comment.

"suit up" and "show up" ???? "slay his dragons" ????

Suit up and show up are the sorts of terms a coach would use. In high school, some of our teachers were also coaches and they'd say something like "you need to suit up and show up for the test tomorrow." In other words come to work and do your best. I've heard the term "slay your dragons" used as one would say "fighting against your inner demons."
Sounds like this guy uses a lot of cliches......

[walton]

http://crazilyhazy.livejournal.com/

At this site were these words:

" I know none of my friends who read this will know Zach, but you should all know that in not knowing him, you're missing out. Zach graduated from the public school in my hometown the same year I graduated from the private school. He was friends with some of my friends who left and went to public school and he helped Shannon teach me how to skank to ska music when we were in 8th grade.
Zach left town to go to school in Utah and never looked back on the things about small town life that weren't great. He got out like I didn't have the guts to.
But since Thursday, he's been missing.
His car was found burnt out with a body in it that was burned so badly they don't think it can be identified even by dental records. And Zach is the third or fourth guy from his school to go missing in a rather short amount of time. The others were all found in their burnt out cars. "

The author has since removed them.
If you look at this you will see they left a trail.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=epE&q=crazilyhazy+zach+ruble&btnG=Search

[juliekan]

a comment from an article about Zach Ruble

If you look on what the most common form of suicide is, suicide by fire is the least likely. Suicide in a car set on fire is even more unlikely. There have been less than 5 in Utah from 1999 to 2007. We have now seen three of this situation in three weeks! What's going on? It's all fishy and it makes me nervous that there is a serial killer on the loose.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_6532910 written 2007

Autopsy results released today dashed hope that Army contractor Christopher Jessop's two small children were spared death by fire.
Jessop, 30, Mariah, 3, and James, 4, succumbed to flames, according to a preliminary autopsy results, said Tooele County Sheriff Frank Park.
The sheriff said he had hoped the children were killed in a less painful way before their father ignited a gasoline fire in an apparent double-murder and suicide at a gas station on the Skull Valley Goshute Indian Reservation early Thursday.


This link is still found on the net. I've since copied it just in case it goes missing as well.

[walton]

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2007/08/06/mariah-and-james-jessop-murder-8207-near-dugway-ut-murder-suicide-by-their-father-killed-by-setting-car-on-fire/

The following was written at this site:

tomlinson Says:
September 14, 2007 at 1:38 pm

I have been reading these comments and I am so sad that all of you do not know the truth, everyony is just speculating. But this is without a doubt a murder and I am certain that the Jessops will come to this realization someday and they will have to ask for forgiveness for the awful lies that they have told about Mary. Lies cause major damage, I wish they could just see the obvious and point their anger towards the murderer not the innocent here.

[walton]

a comment from an article about Zach Ruble

If you look on what the most common form of suicide is, suicide by fire is the least likely. Suicide in a car set on fire is even more unlikely. There have been less than 5 in Utah from 1999 to 2007. We have now seen three of this situation in three weeks! What's going on? It's all fishy and it makes me nervous that there is a serial killer on the loose.

Can you see any connection/connections in their lifestyles?

How about the locations of the fires?
Did they all go to the same school?
Did they work together? train together? bike together?

Did they know something that someone didn't want them to? Did they see something?

[walton]

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/42715582.html

video about Zach Ruble including photo

Ruble is a 2008 graduate of Mason County High School and is currently a Freshman at the University Of Utah where he's studying biomedical engineering.

[walton]

Senora if your out there, I could use your help with something. Please pm me.

Thanks Walton

[walton]

Here is a nice article about Zach.

http://www.dailyutahchronicle.com/news/ruble-s-passion-lives-on-1.1711686

[Texas-SE]

Willie the Thug has been invited to speak at hearing before Texas legislature, Tuesday April 14, 2009. From newspaper article: "They have given us a formal invitation to testify," Jessop said. "We're kind of in shock. ... We're pleasantly surprised." Read entire article:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/13/flds-members-to-testify-at-legislative-hearing/

Wonder if ole Willie knows that Texas legislative hearings can subject witness to questioning, cross examination. How will wee Willie respond to questions about the bed in temple, that's no custodians bed IMO! Perhaps the FLDS should have had a red light for that room, certainly would fit with it's intended use IMO!:lol:

[juliekan]

Willie the Thug has been invited to speak at hearing before Texas legislature, Tuesday April 14, 2009. From newspaper article: "They have given us a formal invitation to testify," Jessop said. "We're kind of in shock. ... We're pleasantly surprised." Read entire article:

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/13/flds-members-to-testify-at-legislative-hearing/

Wonder if ole Willie knows that Texas legislative hearings can subject witness to questioning, cross examination. How will wee Willie respond to questions about the bed in temple, that's no custodians bed IMO! Perhaps the FLDS should have had a red light for that room, certainly would fit with it's intended use IMO!:lol:

Article says they haven't decided yet who to send......I guess they should send that one guy that had only one wife and (IIRC) had not moved back to the ranch. I remember them in the news, because their children were also taken away. I'm guessing he probably doesn't know many details, as the rest do, so he could just give the party line and wouldn't have to take the 5th repeatedly. :tonguewag:

[Texas-SE]

Article says they haven't decided yet who to send......I guess they should send that one guy that had only one wife and (IIRC) had not moved back to the ranch. I remember them in the news, because their children were also taken away. I'm guessing he probably doesn't know many details, as the rest do, so he could just give the party line and wouldn't have to take the 5th repeatedly. :tonguewag:


Here's more on hearing: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/schedules/html/C3102009041410301.HTM

Also from SLTrib reporter Brooke Adams: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/04/hilderbran-on-tuesday-hearing/

Wee Willie and the FLDS should be careful of what they wish for, they just might get it!:rolleyes:

Ole Willie's ego will get the best of him, he will be there even if he sends a stooge to testify IMO!:tongue:

[texski]

I would not be surprised if Willie insists on testifying. Hubby said who ever testifies will throw a temper tantrum when the legislature starts asking questions.
Willie says formal invitation, doesn't he know that they are going to question them? What a buffoon. I would not think of this as an honor. I guess they think the legislature is going to buy whatever they say. Keep digging guys pretty soon that old grave is going to be finished.

i have been gone a week and all kinds of things popped up. i cannot keep up with your super sleuths. new computer, new location, new internet provider. hope this goes thru. keep up the good work so i can get educated .

[walton]

Once again I ask.

Who put Willie in charge? and who is Willies lawyer?

[walton]

Hey Grammy what do you think that they could have done differently?

Keep in mind the things that they did and didn't know when this all took place.
Example:
The amount of people actually living on the ranch.
The amount of children.
The lack of birth certificates.
The shuffling of kids.
Did they have weapons or not.

Should they have taken the kids out and left the adults?
Should they have taken the adults and left the kids?
Should they have taken the men and left the women and kids?

I personally don't know what they could have different knowing the things they did and seeing what they did.

Has anyone heard anything about Wendall N.? or John Wayman?

[juliekan]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/firstreading/entries/2009/04/14/states_handling_of_sect_gets_l.html

State’s handling of sect gets look from House panel

The House Human Services Committee will meet at 10:30 a.m. Testimony is expected from Anne Heiligenstein, commissioner of the Department of Family and Protective Services; Willie Jessop, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints; Scott McCown, executive director of the Center for Public Policy Priorities; and Kevin Dietz of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, which represented some of the FLDS mothers.

Scott McCown:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20080525/ai_n25465305/
Utah, Texas laws are similar; FLDS population isn't

Both states have criminal penalties on the books for engaging in sex with a 13-year-old -- even if the teenager consents.

Both states have criminal prohibitions against sexual contact with older minors and restrictions on when a teen can lawfully get married.

And at least one child welfare expert says that to examine the difference of "why" and "how" the raid happened in Texas and not in Utah, the answers aren't on the law books.

"If you think the outcome would be different in Utah, the reasons would not be found in the child protection laws," said Scott McCown, director of the nonpartisan, nonprofit research organization called the Center For Public Policy Priorities based in Houston.

Interesting article, and just over 2 pages long (not the 4 pages as it looks like!)

Kevin Dietz:

http://pluralwife.blogspot.com/2008/04/were-religious-rights-family-sanctity.html

Kevin Dietz, a lawyer representing 45 mothers from the Fundamentalist LDS Church, said the state violated basic due process standards when it swept so many children from families without giving the parents an opportunity to respond.

Some of his clients received no notice from the court or CPS about the legal proceedings. "They had no meaningful way to participate and no evidence was presented against them," said Dietz, who works with Texas RioGrande Legal Aid.

"The state might have evidence that some mothers put some children a risk, but you can't bootstrap that evidence to apply to everyone who lived in this community. And that's what was done last week," he said.

...others — including Harrington and Dietz — said they believe the state should bring criminal charges if men in the polygamist sect are forcing 12- and 13-year-old girls into sexual relations.

why only 12 and 13 year old girls? why not follow the Texas law concerning this?

[juliekan]

If anyone's around....Brooke's got a link to the hearings....there's just people milling around so I don't know if the hearing is over or they broke for lunch or what...

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Listen to hearing live


It just came on........

[walton]

:thumbsup:

Thanks. I am watching.

The one guy drank too much coffee. He is talking super fast.

[juliekan]

Isn't that Hildebrand? They said he has obligations at home in Kerrville, so would be going first?

[juliekan]

He's talking about the house of Yahweh, up by Abilene. I saw where one of the brush fires just took out 3 homes and a couple of trailers at their compound.

[walton]

Wow I like this lady speaking.

She was just talking about the percentage of girls found at the compound that were sexually abused.
She is also talking about the events that happened at the time of the raid.

I hope someone can save this for later viewing.

Thanks Julie for bringing this here.

[walton]

She said that the mothers not only removed name bracelets but they also switched out the kids clothing.

[juliekan]

She said that the mothers not only removed name bracelets but they also switched out the kids clothing.

:sneaky:

*********************************************
She would have removed all the children, and not the moms.

[walton]

With all that she has said, and all that was done , I think she is right.

We have to keep in mind that this is about learning from what has happened.

Keeping the kids with mothers who encouraged and has encouraged the kids to lie about things such as birthdays, parents and siblings would mess with any investigation and safety of the children.

[walton]

During and after a major flood or natural disaster they have an awful lot of should haves, could haves, would haves. But the result they always want is to prevent future flooding and harm to people in flood area.

Water on one side of the dike and people on the other.

She is touching on the race issues now.

Oh man the one guy is talking about the Prophet talking about the fact that Warren said it is ok to lie.

:ohmy:

[juliekan]

OMG, that rep. just said "hy-e-nous situation" (heinous)! Just like the attorney in the movie My Cousin Vinnie. :lol:

[juliekan]

This rep. is concerned the children are still in danger. I guess he took that statement about lying to heart!

[walton]

I think I see Willie.

So far I agree with everything she has said except... I don't believe this "pattern" can be untaught in 2-12 month time frame.

[juliekan]

I think I see Willie.

So far I agree with everything she has said except... I don't believe this "pattern" can be untaught in 2-12 month time frame.

I agree, I think that's why some of the reps. are worried that the FLDS is just lying that they will keep the girls safe from sexual abuse.

Is that him on the right? He's starting to wiggle

[juliekan]

FLDS needs to be honest and forthright and not manipulative in the future.

Ha. Good luck with that.

[walton]

yeah I think he is on the right hand side. If I was there I would be sitting right next to him. I mean right next to him. And I would tell him my name.

[juliekan]

I bet he wouldn't share the armrest!

Kevin Dietz of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, which represented some of the FLDS mothers is up.

[walton]

IMO to prevent getting wet from flooded lands.

Remove oneself from flood lands.

Housing?
Phones?
Security?

All reasonable issues. And imo issues that were met and dealt with.

The guy talking right now is out of his league. jmo He has been Williewashed. :mad:

[juliekan]

The guy talking right now is out of his league. jmo He has been Williewashed. :mad:

:lol: :lol: WILLIEWASHED

I can't wait to hear if the reps come up with some good questions.

[walton]

I bet he wouldn't share the armrest!

Kevin Dietz of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, which represented some of the FLDS mothers is up.

Willie wouldn't have a choice. Walton would bring in her needle nose (or sledge hammer) and dismantle the armrest if need be.

Actually I was looking for Willies phone number again. Can't find him listed. But I am the kind of person that would enjoy that eye contact. I bet Willie would like me for about 10 minutes.

Dietz said he had a real expert sitting next to him when he interviewed the mothers. And I bet she was all of 19 or 20 and right out of college. ( No disrespect to those that have real experience)

[walton]

http://www.trla.org/card/?st_employ=A1042


I wish he would tell me how he confirmed who his clients were and what proof they had.

Poor guy. He should have called and expert before this hearing. jmo

[walton]

Oh man... he is talking about why they didn't have the resources. They were too busy defending the "alleged" offenders. Too busy spending monies on lawyers that had been charged with certain offenses.

Their monies were being used to defend their "Prophet".

[juliekan]

He answers, then they come back and question him, then he admits "that is a difficult question." Then he says he doesn't think it's true, then he changes the subject?

[juliekan]

He has been WILLIEWASHED :blink:. They ask a question, he says someone can answer it better, then he starts talking about whatever he wants to.

I think they said at the beginning that little willie will be next.

[juliekan]

The state will not tolerate any manipulation. Manipulating, hiding the truth cannot be tolerated. We want to ensure that.

Chairman of Human Services

[juliekan]

I OBJECT!

Why couldn't the FLDS rent a motel? I thought they just went over how the FLDS couldn't afford anything.

Did he say shift break, or s*** break. :scared:

(this is Willie on a rant)

[Texas-SE]

Willie gets sworn in, not smart on his part to appear without legal consel, everything he say can and will be used against him in a court of law. Keep on talking Willie boy, Gregg Abbott is smiling from ear to ear:thumbup:

[juliekan]

TEX! I was just going to post that you should've been here! :w00t:

[juliekan]

Chairman: Do you tolerate the marriage of underage girls to men on your ranch?
Willie: (loooong pause) Now let me ask you this......
C: I asked YOU a question, are you aware that underage girls married men on the ranch?
W: I don't live there on the ranch...
C: So you are not aware of underage girls married to men on the ranch?
C: Is he under oath....OK after he sign a witness affirmation form. Do that now. (Willie given/signs form)
W: (starts complaining about the amenities at San Angelo again)
Another representative: You can't call my Coliseum a hay stable again, we're going to go to blows!
C: OK, are you unable to answer the question if underage girls were married to men on the ranch?
W: I believe it is inappropriate for me to speculate on that...
C: Either say I refuse to answer or I don't know. I don't believe you don't know the answer.
W: I believe it is inappropriate to speculate...blah,blah,blah
C: I don't believe you don't know.

(My version, not verbatim)

[juliekan]

Somewhere out there Natalie Malonis is rolling on the floor. :laugh:

[juliekan]

Scott McCown, executive director of the Center for Public Policy Priorities talking now. Sounds terrifically smart and common sense.

[juliekan]

Scott McCown:

Not critical of CPS and protocols followed by them and courts
This was a complex case that unfolded in real time
Between a rock and a hard place, would have had problems also if they had taken different courses of action that were available

Most interesting point(to me) that he brought up, was that any adult at the ranch that knew of underage marriage and/or sexual assault of a child could be charged with Class B misdemeanor that entails 180 days in jail and a $200,000 fine.

Also that it will be an impossible task for CPS to enforce these laws on the ranch. He said he thinks Texas will have to enforce the laws and criminal penalties in order to protect these children who are CITIZENS OF TEXAS.

[juliekan]

Other questions asked Willie:

Q: Who designated you the spokesman for this group? Who gave you the authority?
A: I'm here testifying on my won.
Q: If you are acting on your own how can you make statements for the group in the paper?
A: (no direct answer)

Q: What is the purpose of the bed in the temple? Is it for the gardener?
A: That's not the same picture of the bed I was talking about. This will all be addressed tomorrow. (He keeps referencing some hearing tomorrow, I don't know what it is.)

Q: We have it on your word as spokesman for the church that celestial marriage will not occur?
A: I have not been involved in or aware of underage marriage on the ranch. (Why wouldn't he admit this to the Chairman earlier?)

(all by my scribbled notes, not verbatim)

[walton]

I just got back.


I hope someone puts this on you tube.

[walton]

Q: Who designated you the spokesman for this group? Who gave you the authority?
A: I'm here testifying on my won.
Q: If you are acting on your own how can you make statements for the group in the paper?
A: (no direct answer)


wow!! and I missed it?

[juliekan]

This is Susan Hayes, but I've been also doing laundry and dishes. I want to re-hear her, she also sounds smart and common sense.

[walton]

I love Natalie Malonis.

[walton]

I think Willies ears must be on fire.

:biggrin:

[walton]

Geri Lynn Ward is up.

Holy moly. She was on the radio with BillM and a couple of others.

She jumped on the bandwagon for lots of reasons.

I am appalled that she is so appalled. Bet she is one of BillM's lawyers.

Ahaa... the connection of some of the dots.

[walton]

"I can't even get my friends to believe me." said Johana Scott

"Nobody cares."

She has been doing this for 5 years.

There is no certain way that people must act when their children are being taken away.



I've just gone back how many years? This is like a scene from the Scot Peterson trial.


Next up is Willies 2nd grade teacher about to tell us how well Willie sang with Wally in the Walla Walla court back in 72. j/k

[walton]

whoops I think they have been had. Willie has been caught and the truth is coming out. You know that grave I was talking about well I guess Willie just dug it some more.
He thought he was going to go in there and the legislature was just going to take him at his word. It isn't going to happen. Now the world is going to know moreso about this group and they will be watched no matter what state they go to. I do not believe CPS could have done things any different.

I want to throw something out I was thinking about in the middle of the night. I do my best thinking in the middle of the night when I wake up.:wink::wink:

Anyway I was going over the fact that CPS wants to change things so that they can remove the abuser from the home instead of the child. With all the rights that people are talking about I suspect that Texas would have a hard time making an abuser leaving the home because their rights might be affected. In most cases the home is in the man's name and he has every right to be there.
As it stands right now children do not have any rights. A child is a minor and they are controlled by the adults in the home. I do not see this changing. So we are probably back to the same dilemma of the rights of the abuser over the rights of the child. I see this as a real problem unless we change something in our law to put the rights of the child above the adults, but I am sure that would take proving child abuse which in many cases can take a long time and sometimes children do not have that long.

Give me some feedback on this if you can and let me know what you think.

:) ( I took one of your smilies) Thinking in the middle of the night. See this story gets to a lot of people.

In a setting like this how does one find out who the abuser might be?

imo the only way to secure a safe place for the child is taking the kid out.

[walton]

I think Willie must be trying to text me.


lol j/k

I saw Seth Jeffs earlier. Maybe Warren is having a vision.

oh oh

[juliekan]

Seth came by your house? And Willie is texting you? :wink:

[walton]

Yeah.


Willie is trying to talk.


:biggrin:

[juliekan]

Willie should have read the Bill before showing up to debate its points. :glare:

[walton]

"Maybe you ought to be concerned."

Yeah!!:thumbsup:

[juliekan]

I agree Walton. As long as the children are in the homes there is always a chance of abuse. Aside from the issue of rights you have to keep the abuser in jail. That will not happen. Due process comes into play and the abusers are entitled to their day in court and until then unless you take the children out of the home there is no way to protect them. We have a catch 22 and no matter how you look at it the child will always end up being the losers.

You're smart....Scott McCown, executive director of the Center for Public Policy Priorities just said the same thing earlier. :smile:

[juliekan]

Rep: "To the extent you are not breaking this law (willie) you should not be concerned."

[texski]

Yeah.


Willie is trying to talk.


:biggrin: i am behind in everything, but didnt you have a post not long ago inviting someone to call you up anytime??? was that an invite to willy?

[walton]

Wow!! Willie just got a finger pointing at him. I think by Mr.Darby.

Raised voices. :thumbsup:

[walton]

i am behind in everything, but didnt you have a post not long ago inviting someone to call you up anytime??? was that an invite to willy?


Yeah. Him and Warrens lawyer. Texski you have to see this!!

[juliekan]

Wow!! Willie just got a finger pointing at him. I think by Mr.Darby.

Raised voices. :thumbsup:

Yeah he also has yelled at willie twice about referring to the Coliseum as a hay stable :laugh:

(it is Rep Darby from San Angelo)

[walton]

Willie was just asking about laws against celibacy.



My jaw hit the floor.

[juliekan]

Willie was just asking about laws against celibacy.



My jaw hit the floor.

blithering idiot comes to mind

wee willie hates having others talk back to him and not keep sweet

[juliekan]

what was he talking about them losing a Down's syndrome child for 5 days??? then Willie said they "couldn't find IT"?

[walton]

I didn't hear the words "down's syndrome".

Willies tongue is thick so he is sometimes hard to understand. But he did mention earlier that he "knows what it is like to have had a child at the shelter".

Did you guys know that? Did he have one or two or more kids there?

Did he sign up for a DNA test?

[walton]

Edson Jessop has his head so far up Willie he is getting an instant tan. jmo

Does Edson think he is next in line?

Edson isn't known to be real truthful either jmo. Him or the little miss sister wife.

[walton]

If I put the word advocate behind my name would that make me one?

If I take donations would that make me an expert?

No disrespect meant to those that are really advocates.



Does anyone know has there ever been a hearing like this in Utah or Arizona?

If Willie is making cd's he should send one of these to Mark Shurtleff.

[juliekan]

I didn't hear the words "down's syndrome".

Willies tongue is thick so he is sometimes hard to understand. But he did mention earlier that he "knows what it is like to have had a child at the shelter".
Did you guys know that? Did he have one or two or more kids there?

Did he sign up for a DNA test?

I heard that...but he repeatedly made it clear he (willie) has never lived there and doesn't know if underaged children were being married off.

McCown said earlier that 50% of the children from the ranch did not have DNA to match any man there.

[juliekan]

what was he talking about them losing a Down's syndrome child for 5 days??? then Willie said they "couldn't find IT"?

She just said the child wasn't lost, just that the identity was lost. Like they did not know whose he was because of all the switcheroos.

[juliekan]

:laugh: grammy

I'm amazed these people ran this hearing straight through...no breaks.

[walton]

Merril Jessop was there? Did I just see him walk out?

[juliekan]

looked like him, but my picture has not been too clear

[walton]

Wow!! This was just great.




Thank you.


I hope it goes on youtube so I can watch it all over again.

And then I'll probably have to watch it one more time.


I am one lucky person. I've worked all my life. I've never had much time to witness events like this. If we would have had electricity where I went to school maybe we would have. j/k

We just didn't have things like this at our finger tips.

[Texas-SE]

looked like him, but my picture has not been too clear

One dude looked like Seth Jeffs, LMAO at Willie, he appears with out legal counsel, and speaks under oath. Oh the DA's office must be smiling from ear to ear, Willies stumbling over the picture of the temple bed was a hoot.:biggrinjester:

[walton]

I heard that...but he repeatedly made it clear he (willie) has never lived there and doesn't know if underaged children were being married off.

McCown said earlier that 50% of the children from the ranch did not have DNA to match any man there.

Warren didn't live there either but how many kids did they find there of his?

Wonder if Maury Povitch could do a show. How to find the daddy in 2 episodes. ( I know bad Walton.)

[juliekan]

gotta go finish cooking and laundry...I did not expect to spend all afternoon listening to this!

I hope someone goes over the testimony with a fine tooth comb...willie said more under oath today than I think he knows he did....then I will wait for the trials and hope he gets called to testify in a situation where he can't turn every response into a question for his questioner!

[juliekan]

Warren didn't live there either but how many kids did they find there of his?

Wonder if Maury Povitch could do a show. How to find the daddy in 2 episodes. ( I know bad Walton.)

Who's Yo Baby Daddy? Instead of throwing chairs, maybe popping suspenders

[walton]

I have to go as well. I'll be back later I am sure.

Thanks everyone for just being here.

How exciting.

[Texas-SE]

I have to go as well. I'll be back later I am sure.

Thanks everyone for just being here.

How exciting.

Yes very exciting, wonderful to see Willie the thug put on the hotseat!

Speaking of the 12 year old "wife" of Warren Jeffs, the CPS stated in hearing that the state is seeking custody, which means she will be put up for adoption. At least that's one that will escape Warren Jeffs.

From article: "A 14-year-old girl allegedly married to polygamist group leader Warren Jeffs when she was 12 may be placed permanently in Texas state custody." Read entire article:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6373356.html

[Texas-SE]

The San Angelo newspaper published this recap of hearing: "In a particularly tense exchange, Jessop evaded questions about whether underage marriage were tolerated on the YFZ Ranch, leading the committee's chairman to question his truthfulness."

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/14/live-from-the-flds-hearing-in-02/

[juliekan]

http://www.house.state.tx.us/committees/broadcasts.php?session=81&committeeCode=310

click on 4/14/09 for today's House of Representatives Human Services Committee Meeting

[walton]

Does anyone know.... Would I be able to save this to my computer or put it on a disc somehow?

Do you guys know what seeing this could do for those kids? 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now?

So many people trying to help make things better.

Not religious persecution as Willie calls it but "enhancing laws already in place."

[Texas-SE]

Does anyone know.... Would I be able to save this to my computer or put it on a disc somehow?

Do you guys know what seeing this could do for those kids? 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now?

So many people trying to help make things better.

Not religious persecution as Willie calls it but "enhancing laws already in place."

Yes you can download video, when you click on link to play video on real player, click on link labeled burn/transfer which will allow you to copy video.


Question, didn't Warren Jeffs when he made his jailhouse confession that he wasn't a profit state, that Willie Jessop was the profit?:glare:

[walton]

The man that has been in the public eye since the raid is a man called William Roy Jessop.

He was Willies bodyguard. Mover of earth and People.

William Roy Jessop
• AKA "Willie the Thug" or "King Willie"
• The most serious threat affiliated with the FLDS religion.
• Reportedly has a passion for violence, weapons (legal and illegal) and explosives.
• Accused of intimidating witnesses at Warren Jeffs' trial in 2007.
• "If anything remotely resembling violence or intimidation occurs, you can be fairly certain that William had a hand in it."
• Has acted as a spokesman for the FLDS Church after the raid on the YFZ Ranch.
• Lives in Hildale, Utah.

To the right of this article is a group of 10 photos.

_______________________________________

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,640191667,00.html
printed in July 2006

A Cedar City home searched by police for any sign of fugitive Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs belongs to one of his most loyal followers.

The home belongs to Jeffs' bodyguard Willie Jessop, said Sam Brower, a private investigator who has been looking into Jeffs on behalf of lawyers suing the FLDS Church and its $110 million financial arm, the United Effort Plan Trust.

"He's church security," Brower said Saturday. He assisted police in searching the home on Friday for any sign of Jeffs.

The home in a newly developed subdivision was surrounded by SWAT teams on Friday as police and FBI agents investigated a neighbor's tip that Jeffs was seen going inside. Jeffs was not found and police officers involved in the search told the Deseret Morning News they did not believe Jeffs was ever there.

A man and a woman inside were handcuffed and questioned but later released by FBI agents.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233581,00.html?pg=1
I think the picture is number 4 on the right hand side.

William E. Jessop
• "Respected as a bishop in the FLDS religion."
• "He is a very powerful man in the community, but I have never received any information that would indicate that he is involved in anything of a violent nature."
• "Could be involved in the decision-making processes due to his position of power."
• Lives in Hildale, Utah.

____________________________________

Willie E. Jessop is actually William Edson Timpson Jessop.

William E. Jessop (born William E. Timpson) is a leader in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS Church). In a January 2007 telephone conversation between Jessop and church president Warren Jeffs, Jeffs suggested that Jessop was the rightful leader of the FLDS Church. In a jailhouse visit with his brother Nephi, Jeffs reportedly stated that "Brother William E. Jessop has been the prophet" of the FLDS Church since the death of Rulon Jeffs. Jessop should not be confused with Willie Jessop, a frequent spokesperson for the FLDS Church.

________________________________________

http://www.childpro.org/newsletter/PolygamyNews0108.pdf

Here it explains Willie E. Timpson Jessops involvement concerning the missing Fred Jessop.

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy558.html

The complaint alleges that Jeffs, along with Truman I. Barlow, Leroy S. Jeffs, James K. Zitting and William E. Jessop, also known as William E. Timpson, and the corporation of the president of the FLDS Church, the corporation of the presiding bishop of the FLDS Church and the FLDS Church misappropriated property intended for the trust. Documents filed in 3rd District Court allege that throughout the years, hundreds of people donated money, property and services to the trust and that the trustees received donations intended for the trust that were not placed in the trust.

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story/Who-is-Willie-Jessop/f7UkkX4nOUWOEzNa1Mn07w.cspx

Ross Chatwin is a former FLDS member who grew up with Jessop and faced him down when he was kicked out of the church.

"If they say 'counsel' then they're just playing a game and they plan on continuing with underage marriage," warned Chatwin. "And it really worries me when Willie gets up there and starts saying that 'I don't know of any underage marriages.' That's an absolute lie."
"They will put him up front because he's the type of guy that will say and do anything," said Brower. He said that the real leaders of the polygamist group, Lyle Jeffs, William E. Timpson (a.k.a. Willie Jessop), Wendall Nielson and Merril Jessop, are all in hiding.

Willie has been left to be their voice to the outside world.

"His role is to be out there, keep talking to the public, keep talking to the media, while the real leaders vanish," said Brower.

[walton]

Rulon Jeffs vs Alma Timpson

Greedy Rulon wanted the whole thing for himself. He pushed and shoved until he got what he wanted. Rulon was greedy and a master kaniver. He knew how to place himself in positions to gain peoples trust and then moved all the numbers to earn higher positions.

This is what he did with the FLDS. He should never have been Prophet either. He wiggled his hiney into a position and did everything he could to gain power, money and control.

Alma Timpson and a few others didn't like the one man rule. They were suppose to have others in line incase anything happened and things were suppose to be voted on. Agreed upon.

Alma and a few others left and started Centinal Park. Almas wife was assigned or placed with Fred Jessop. She took Willie Edson Timpson Jessop with her. Willie Edson Timpson adopted Fred Jessops last name.

Now....... Fast forward Warren claims Willie Edson Timpson Jessop should be the Prophet. Then Warren changed his mind. But Warren probably would have made the jailer Prophet at that time. Warren was goofy from lack of sleep and not eating. So who is to say.

There is nothing that I can find anywhere that would place Willie E. Timpson Jessop as a Prophet. Nothing. The only thing I can figure out is that it was a spit and a handshake type deal and the members of the FLDS lost out once again. Making up things as they go.

There has been much talk about the CPark and the members buying some of the UEP land. imo it is all the same. CPark is just a modern version of Polygamy gone wild. Although the Kingstons have their "own group" there are Kingstons involved with the CPark.

Mark Shurtleff has had an open discussions with those affiliated with CPark and has often stated that he would not prosecute Polygamy unless they become a victim 2 and 3 times. ( He says it in a nicer way but that is what it boils down to.)

Money and Land- As we've seen time and time again they will jump up and make all kinds of noise when it comes time to claim their property and monies. But very little is said about claiming their children.

Heidi Mattingly Kingston is a member of the CPark and is still part of the Kingston clan. Her husband has over 110 children and knows the system every which way.

Willie Edson Timspson Jessop hasn't said boo since Warren announced his new role. Is he in jail? Is he moving papers and lands to merge the two groups? Who knows.

As far as who should the be the Prophet? I would be surprised if the Gardener didn't jump up and lay claim and they would probably follow him. j/k

Warren Jeffs and his father Rulon succeeded at dissolving their own. jmo Natural disaster or Man-made?


This is my opinion.

[juliekan]

Thanks Walton for all the info on wee willie

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Does the FLDS Tolerate Underage Marriage at the YFZ Ranch?

The Texas House Committee on Human Services held a hearing on the raid on the YFZ Ranch on Tuesday, April 14th.

Willie Jessop stated that "if this individual exists, that we're looking for is an abused person, the people at the gate will probably produce her very quickly..." (at 2:44). Uh, Willie? Didn't the State ask to see Teresa Steed's child on December 18th? Which child was produced? It sure wasn't Teresa's and instead was a 'throw-down' baby. Wasn't she supposed to be in a court hearing in Bexar County with that same child?
Yeah, so much for producing them very quickly.

[juliekan]

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

Summary of opinions from yesterday, including this:

All three seemed reluctant to criticize the appellate court but went on to express that the decision was wrong. One of the Committee members cleared up exactly what the supreme court opinion meant, and this is the first time I heard this — the supreme court did not concur with the appellate court and did not uphold that decision. Rather, the supreme court “declined to overturn” the appellate decision. The reason it’s stated like that is because CPS did not directly appeal the 3COA decision, but instead petitioned the supreme court for mandamus, asking that the court find that the 3COA abused its discretion. In a nutshell, CPS made it harder for the supreme court to reverse the appellate court because of the way they filed their appeal. The supreme court didn’t affirm the lower court, they just didn’t find the appellate court abused its discretion. It’s a pretty fine point but interesting.

I had heard this opinion on the supreme court's ruling before.

Also, funny and true description of wee willie's testimony follows this. JMO

[juliekan]

Attorneys: Walther misled into issuing FLDS warrant

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/15/flds-attorneys-seek-suppression-of-yfz-evidence/

Texas Rangers misled Judge Barbara Walther into issuing a pair of search warrants authorizing entry onto the YFZ Ranch, attorneys claim this week in a motion asking Walther to throw out the evidence found at the polygamous compound.

Each packet of motion and exhibits runs more than 380 pages. A hearing on the motion has been scheduled for next month. The motion covers 10 of the 12 defendants, excepting sect leader Warren Jeffs, who is facing charges in Arizona, and ranch doctor Lloyd Barlow, who faces only misdemeanor counts.

[walton]

And they wonder where their money is going. oh boy.


I am looking forward to seeing their band-wagon of lawyers and self proclaimed advocates pull up in front of any courthouse.

[Texas-SE]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233581,00.html?pg=1
I think the picture is number 4 on the right hand side.

William E. Jessop
• "Respected as a bishop in the FLDS religion."
• "He is a very powerful man in the community, but I have never received any information that would indicate that he is involved in anything of a violent nature."
• "Could be involved in the decision-making processes due to his position of power."
• Lives in Hildale, Utah.

____________________________________

Willie E. Jessop is actually William Edson Timpson Jessop.

William E. Jessop (born William E. Timpson) is a leader in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS Church). In a January 2007 telephone conversation between Jessop and church president Warren Jeffs, Jeffs suggested that Jessop was the rightful leader of the FLDS Church. In a jailhouse visit with his brother Nephi, Jeffs reportedly stated that "Brother William E. Jessop has been the prophet" of the FLDS Church since the death of Rulon Jeffs. Jessop should not be confused with Willie Jessop, a frequent spokesperson for the FLDS Church.

________________________________________

http://www.childpro.org/newsletter/PolygamyNews0108.pdf

Here it explains Willie E. Timpson Jessops involvement concerning the missing Fred Jessop.

Thanks for the information on ole Willie boy, with all these Jessops, one needs a score card to keep up!

[walton]

I watched it again.

Willie said that he got a call from his sister asking for clothing. Who is his sister and why couldn't she call "hubby" and get some from the ranch?

One of the women that spoke said she has worked with certain groups before and had a good relationship with them. This time when she asked an employee from that group for something, the employee told her that they were there only to observe and take notes.

What? How many "professionals" would have just said oh ok and walk away? Now if that truly happened why didn't this professional woman get names and numbers? Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail. Red flag, red flag, red flag. Easy to point fingers at an unknown name but this woman has fingers pointing right back at her for not doing her job. jmo

I am not sure if it was Johana Scot that mentioned how great the "committee" pyramid in Utah is working but I thought it was great when Darby questioned her further on the stats of the effectiveness. Exactly how many polygamy families has the pyramid helped? He wants numbers.

I was truly impressed how in-depth many of the questions asked. And no backing down. Dang I love them Texans.

I also liked it when those that were speaking were asked "well what would you have done." :)

Willie said something about renting a whole mo-tel. I think he must have thought they might have gotten the FLDS rate like the one they rented in Nevada. j/k

In one of my earlier posts I picked on Mr. Dietz. I am sure he meant well but he just wasn't prepared for what was before him.

I wonder how many times Willie and Seth practiced the cues for the Compound dressing moment. lol

Yup. Watching it a 2nd time was still interesting. Next time I will take notes and names.

[walton]

Thanks Walton for all the info on wee willie

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Does the FLDS Tolerate Underage Marriage at the YFZ Ranch?

The Texas House Committee on Human Services held a hearing on the raid on the YFZ Ranch on Tuesday, April 14th.

Willie Jessop stated that "if this individual exists, that we're looking for is an abused person, the people at the gate will probably produce her very quickly..." (at 2:44). Uh, Willie? Didn't the State ask to see Teresa Steed's child on December 18th? Which child was produced? It sure wasn't Teresa's and instead was a 'throw-down' baby. Wasn't she supposed to be in a court hearing in Bexar County with that same child?
Yeah, so much for producing them very quickly.

What would Willie know? He wasn't a resident of the ranch.

Define resident Willie. Who was a resident and who would have known?

Producing them quickly? Who was in Levi Barlow Jeffs vehicle when he was out driving around and wouldn't stop for the authorities? Where did Levi think he was going? Funny Funny Willie.

I am glad Willie came out and said he isn't the spokesman for the FLDS. I wonder where Rod Parker has been keeping himself. He was the other self appointed spokesperson.

I hope they don't try telling us that Edson Jessop is short for William Edson Jessop the newest Prophet. He isn't very truthful either.

The Success came out I am going to check the classifieds to see if they have a Help Wanted- Prophet for hire ad Must pass Walton questioning test. j/k

Julie I don't know who owns that FLDSwordpress site but I like it. I've been reading there for some time I just haven't posted there.

[walton]

It also sounds like these attorney's are in cahoots with Jeffs attorney's in AZ to make the Texas Rangers out to be buffoons in their dealings with the judge. They are really sinking low to get their clients cases thrown out.

I would like to know how exactly these attorney's think that the sherriff knew at the time of the call that this was a hoax. I have heard of other cases where an abused person will get on the phone with authorities and not give all information on what is going on in their own abusive situation.
I am just not buying this.
I agree Walton that all these attorney's are doing is racking up more fees for the FLDS to pay for their services. I believe this is all a big waste of time and energy as well as being a waste of the courts time to deal with these bogus claims.

jmoo

Grammy maybe Geri Lynn Ward (Ms. Paul Revere) had a hand in the fact finding. I almost fell off my chair a 2nd time. I scanned the people sitting and was looking for BillM running control buttons. I didn't see him but that isn't to say he wasn't speaking in a headset.

As I've said before there are a lot of people and groups that jumped on this band-wagon for reasons that have little to do with the children from the compound.

[walton]

Peace Conference concerning the homes and lands with the FLDS. There is a video clip with Rod Decker explaining the issues.





http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story/Peace-Conference-Scheduled-With-FLDS/47zNsNzOFE2kWOlruy9vig.cspx

Rod Decker still makes me smile.

I wonder if Utah would allow other homeowners who don't pay their taxes the chance to have their homes back?
I do believe I hear the sound of yet another can of worms being opened.

[Texas-SE]

Peace Conference concerning the homes and lands with the FLDS. There is a video clip with Rod Decker explaining the issues.





http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story/Peace-Conference-Scheduled-With-FLDS/47zNsNzOFE2kWOlruy9vig.cspx

Rod Decker still makes me smile.

I wonder if Utah would allow other homeowners who don't pay their taxes the chance to have their homes back?
I do believe I hear the sound of yet another can of worms being opened.
The can of worms is open, don't think that they can wiggling legal problems under control. The wild card is State of Arizona, any agreement Utah makes is not binding in any their state. Some what like the defense attorneys for Warren Jeffs trying to get Arizona courts to order Texas around, dosen't work.:eek:

[juliekan]

The can of worms is open, don't think that they can wiggling legal problems under control. The wild card is State of Arizona, any agreement Utah makes is not binding in any their state. Some what like the defense attorneys for Warren Jeffs trying to get Arizona courts to order Texas around, dosen't work.:eek:

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

FLDS Motion to Suppress
Well, the FLDS finally filed their motion to suppress, available at FLDS Texas.

He goes over how weak their arguments are.

I remember reading motions regarding the case in Arizona (as Texas-SE brings up) and they also were not grounded in reality.

[Texas-SE]

Speaking of cans of worms, the lawyers for the FLDS filed massive motion to suppress evidence in Judge Walthers court. IMO the lawyers are just trying the old throw enough BS and some of it might stick tactic.

From newspaper article: "Dirk Fillpot, spokesman for the Texas Attorney General's Office, which is heading the prosecution of the sect members, called the allegations "baseless and without merit."
I would tend to agree!:biggrin:

Read entire article: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/apr/16/sect-files-massive-motions-to-suppress-evidence/

Here's a link to read the motion: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/joing_consolidated_motion_to_suppress11.pdf

Like I said above, after you read this motion, you will understand the statement about throwing BS to see if any of it sticks:tongueside:

[juliekan]

Other questions asked Willie:

Q: Who designated you the spokesman for this group? Who gave you the authority?
A: I'm here testifying on my won.
Q: If you are acting on your own how can you make statements for the group in the paper?
A: (no direct answer)

Q: What is the purpose of the bed in the temple? Is it for the gardener?
A: That's not the same picture of the bed I was talking about. This will all be addressed tomorrow. (He keeps referencing some hearing tomorrow, I don't know what it is.)
Q: We have it on your word as spokesman for the church that celestial marriage will not occur?
A: I have not been involved in or aware of underage marriage on the ranch. (Why wouldn't he admit this to the Chairman earlier?)

(all by my scribbled notes, not verbatim)

So it was the motion to suppress that willie kept bringing up. What does that have to do with this hearing??:lol:

[Texas-SE]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

FLDS Motion to Suppress
Well, the FLDS finally filed their motion to suppress, available at FLDS Texas.

He goes over how weak their arguments are.

I remember reading motions regarding the case in Arizona (as Texas-SE brings up) and they also were not grounded in reality.

The link you provided is proof of the silliness of the FLDS lawyers, guess they are bleeding the FLDS beast, proof that they are spinning their wheels, but as long as the FLDS checks don't bounce the lawyers will keep generating legal BS to keep the cash flowing!:w00t:

[walton]

Santa Barbara authorities served a search warrant on Jackson's Neverland Ranch and two other Southern California locations on Tuesday (11/18), and an arrest warrant was issued on Wednesday (11/19). Jackson reportedly was in Las Vegas when the police actions took place.

http://www.livedaily.com/news/5788.html

The 45-year-old singer was shooting a music video in Las Vegas when about 60 investigators, including police and representatives of the Santa Barbara district attorney's office, swarmed on to the 2,600-acre property.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/police-search-neverland-ranch-of-michael-jackson-757542.html


If I remember correctly they even searched Michael Jacksons hidden rooms.

[walton]

Americans love their cell phones -- most of us can't live without them. Yet the Better Business Bureau reports that cell phone providers are the No. 1 cause of complaints among consumers.

This is mostly due to incorrect billing, confusing fees, unexpected charges, and deceptive contracts. These can certainly add up, but I was shocked to learn that the most significant -- even devastating -- monetary damage can occur when your cell phone is lost or stolen.

http://digg.com/d17jmk

[walton]

Susan Hayes (?) was talking about a 4 year old little boy drawing pictures of a Bible story concerning Smashing Idols.

Susan Hayes is talking about it around hour 4 hrs.15 min area.

What do you guys think? I personally think that sharing a story like this with a 4 year old is messed up. That is just my opinion. No offense to anyone believing in it.

And exposure to Winnie the Pooh is bad?




http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/15/the-book-of-jasher/

[walton]

Mary Ann Kingston — now known as Mary Ann Nichols — sued more than 200 members of her family and nearly a hundred of their business interests in 2003, claiming she was forced into a polygamous marriage at age 16 to her uncle, David Ortell Kingston. When she fled the marriage, she said her father beat her with a belt until she lost consciousness. John Daniel Kingston pleaded no contest to criminal charges and served jail time. David Ortell Kingston served prison time for an incest conviction.

"Our clients are reasonably happy with the outcome," said Douglas White, an attorney who has represented Nichols, her cousin LuAnn Kingston (Cooper), and the anti-polygamy group Tapestry Against Polygamy in the various lawsuits.



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705298016/Kingston-lawsuits-are-settled.html

[walton]

I am thinking that my comment about the Bible story at age 4 might have crossed the line.

If someone would have posted that they too thought it was wrong they would have posted their opinion.

If someone would have thought it was ok they would have posted as such.

No response imo means I crossed the line and I offended someone. For that I am sorry. I've been posting with you guys for over a year and with others almost 4.

You guys know I have very little experience with how religion (any) is taught in most homes.

My concern isn't with the story told but that it was told to a child who at age 4 was drawing pictures relating to the story.

It was and is not my intent to hurt someones feelings or slam someones religion. I am sorry if you feel that way.

I would have hoped by now you guys knew me better than that. I guess not.

[juliekan]

Susan Hayes (?) was talking about a 4 year old little boy drawing pictures of a Bible story concerning Smashing Idols.

Susan Hayes is talking about it around hour 4 hrs.15 min area.

What do you guys think? I personally think that sharing a story like this with a 4 year old is messed up. That is just my opinion. No offense to anyone believing in it.

And exposure to Winnie the Pooh is bad?




http://bycommonconsent.com/2008/12/15/the-book-of-jasher/

Walton,
All I see is an article by John Hamer. Where is the stuff by Susan Hayes?

[texski]

from hearing the Bible read most days in my childhood, i do remember that the

Bible has a lot of violent materiel in it. as a child i do not think it made much difference to me. i really remember reading stories about goblins living in the ground and coming up to get people more vividly and they were from school reading books.
we all love you and your posts are very important to us. as for me, i have been in the process of moving, as we do every six months, and just been checking up on you guys here quickly and going back to work.
for you, keep up the good work.

[juliekan]

from hearing the Bible read most days in my childhood, i do remember that the

Bible has a lot of violent materiel in it. as a child i do not think it made much difference to me. i really remember reading stories about goblins living in the ground and coming up to get people more vividly and they were from school reading books.

we all love you and your posts are very important to us. as for me, i have been in the process of moving, as we do every six months, and just been checking up on you guys here quickly and going back to work.
for you, keep up the good work.

thanks, texski, for saying that. I have yet to see whatever she posted. I have been off doing other things, and not ignoring my Walton. :smile: I know as a child I heard things about Shadrach, Meschach and Abedego. We will always love our Walton, and she will never steer us wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadrach,_Meshach,_and_Abednego

Some time later, King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold and set it up in Babylon. He ordered that whenever the people heard the sound of the "horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes, and all kinds of music," they would bow down and worship the image or else be thrown into a blazing furnace.

But Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not bow down or worship the image. Some of the king's astrologers informed the king, and he ordered that they be brought before him. He questioned them and repeated his threat, but the three men insisted that they would not worship the idol, faithful that their God would save them. Angrily, the king ordered that the furnace be made seven times hotter than usual and that the three men be tied up and thrown in.

The flames were so hot that the soldiers who threw them in were killed on the spot. But when King Nebuchadnezzar looked in, he saw Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego walking around unbound and unharmed, along with a fourth man whom the king said looked "like the Son of God" (Daniel 3:25). Most Christians and Messianic Jews believe "the Son of God" to refer to Jesus Christ, i.e. bar Elohim - Aramaic son of God(s).

The king called to them to come out, and they did so completely unharmed, not even smelling of smoke or fire. So the king lauded their faith and decreed that anyone who spoke against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would be "cut to pieces and their houses turned to piles of rubble."

The Story in Daniel Chapter 3

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12167265

The Mohave County Attorney's Office in Arizona and defense attorneys for Warren have agreed not to release audio or video recordings made by police during a raid at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas.

The agreement was filed Thursday at the Arizona Superior Court in Mohave County. It states that recordings made when a search warrant
was executed on the compound will be provided by prosecutors only to a defense attorney.

Well they got what they wanted, info from the raid in Texas. And once again, what does this have to do with Warren's case in Arizona?

[juliekan]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Tinhats, Gag Orders, and Recorded Evidence

more on the recordings released to Arizona

[juliekan]

Wow, anyone read Brooke's article and blogs lately? She has definantly aligned herself on one side. Haven't seen her go this far before.

[texski]

Wow, anyone read Brooke's article and blogs lately? She has definantly aligned herself on one side. Haven't seen her go this far before.

that will be my next stop, after weeding the front yard, now i can wonder for a few hours where she is gone so far???? i could call each weed by the name of willie. so there

[Texas-SE]

Here's what findlaw experts have to say on FLDS case, CPS did right and Texas Supreme Court made a mistake in sending children back. From article: "Not only did CPS have clear visual evidence of these crimes, but it also had written records showing that girls had been married off to much older men, even after those men had taken other spouses, and some disturbing pictures, including one particularly disgusting one of their prophet, Warren Jeffs (who is now in jail on other charges), passionately kissing a 12-year-old girl who was sitting on his lap."

Read entire article: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20090416.html

IMO this article is well written and speaks the truth, but will certainly anger the judges of the Texas Supreme Court with it criticism as well as having Wee Willie in a fit.hammer

[juliekan]

Here's what findlaw experts have to say on FLDS case, CPS did right and Texas Supreme Court made a mistake in sending children back. From article: "Not only did CPS have clear visual evidence of these crimes, but it also had written records showing that girls had been married off to much older men, even after those men had taken other spouses, and some disturbing pictures, including one particularly disgusting one of their prophet, Warren Jeffs (who is now in jail on other charges), passionately kissing a 12-year-old girl who was sitting on his lap."

Read entire article: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20090416.html

IMO this article is well written and speaks the truth, but will certainly anger the judges of the Texas Supreme Court with it criticism as well as having Wee Willie in a fit.hammer

Terrific article.

"The public relations strategy was to portray the adults as the "real" victims; to deflect attention from the rape, bigamy, and abuse by loudly demanding vindication of the adults' alleged rights to religious liberty (rights that were no license to break the law)"

"The FLDS's public relations attack was actually standard operating procedure for any religious group that finds itself on the other side of the law: Such groups -- as we have learned from the Catholic Church's and other religious groups' child-sexual-abuse scandals -- almost always use religion to seek to transform the adults into the "real" victims, so that the viewer's attention is no longer on the children."

She also talks about CPS workers and lawyers who have been demoralized by the failure of CPS to protect the children, so they have quit. The media should have been all over these people, not just the "prairie league" with their FLDS party line.

[walton]

You guys I am still reading. I have some things I need to take care of but I will stop in to read when I can. If anything comes up remember to bring links.

I don't know who owns this site but I've been reading with much interest.

:ohmy:

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/


Thanks for everything.

[walton]

I do believe the temple and meeting house were built in likeness to the Nauvoo Temple. Everything if you look back on it with Jeffs is that everything is a replica of Joseph Smith. Look at the pictures that Jeffs had taken of himself, to his manner of speaking and so forth. I can believe it would not be a stretch for Jeffs to think he was Joseph Smith reincarnated. In moo there is no way that Jeffs is anything like the man Joseph Smith. I believe he is delusional enough that he just might think he is but far from it.
jmoo
http://users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/nt-parent.html

As I mentioned in an earlier post that must have fell thru the floor boards I remember reading that Warren modeled the structure of the Temple in Texas after the Nauvoo Temple. The building behind the Temple is what I believe to be considered the meeting house.

Yeah, I also think that Warren placed himself (at least in his own mind) on the same level as Joseph Smith.

There is some good info at this link. The history of the Nauvoo Temple is interesting.

[walton]

I have been looking and looking at those pictures and a couple of things hit me. Are the FLDS trying to fashion their life after the mormon faith, or are they thinking they are catholic priests (no pun intended here) or do they think they are rabbi's with the long beards?
I am not sure what to think but to me it looks like they do not have original ideas about what they are to wear or how they should look?

I still believe that their temple was built on the premise of the original Nauvoo temple.
The other link about information about the FLDS and Brookes blog was very interesting and very informative. I will have to go back again when I have more time to explore.

jmoo

In some of the Pilots photos: He has included photos of the Mt. Carmel Herritage Monastery which is located near the YFZ.

http://www.carmelitehermits.org/

I thought it interesting that the Pilot included these photos.

Although both the YFZ and the monastery are behind walls, the Monestary is open to the Public for different Masses and different events.

I would almost bet money that there is no one practicing Polygamy nor are there any children getting married to any of the monks.

I don't think Warren and his group were trying to be like the Monks.

[walton]

Has anyone else read the paper?

http://myeldorado.net/

[juliekan]

All I can read is this headline:

YFZ Ranch Pledged as Security Against $900K Loan

Please share the info with your cheap fellow poster :blush:

[walton]

I don't want to get into trouble with Randy.

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12205223

Mediation talks continue over polygamous sect trust

Who's participating:

Jerry Barlow, business manager for Hildale City and David Darger, town manager for Colorado City

Special Fiduciary Bruce R. Wisan, his assistant and ex-FLDS member Jethro Barlow, and Jeff Shields, Zach Shields and Mark Callister, Wisan's attorneys.

United Effort Plan Trust advisory board members Carolyn Jessop, Margaret Cooke, Katie Cox and Don Timpson.

Richard Holm and Stephanie Colgrove, representing an independent group of residents.

Roger and Greg Hoole, who represent a group of individuals who sued the trust, the FLDS Church and its leader Warren Jeffs.

FLDS member Willie Jessop and attorneys Ken Okazaki, Stephen Clark, Jim Bradshaw and Rod Parker.

Tim Bodily and Jerrold Jensen, of the Utah Attorney General's Office

Bill Richards, of the Arizona Attorney General's Office

[juliekan]

Lordy, I don't want to watch merril chew gum and sleep at the same time again. :sleep: Are you saying that merril says that Malonis and someone else run wordpress?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeralyn
Sure.
http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/...ren-and-naomi/

these clips only address merril's relationship with warren and naomi. not a word about Malonis running texasfldswordpress.

[jeralyn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeralyn
Sure.
http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/...ren-and-naomi/

these clips only address merril's relationship with warren and naomi. not a word about Malonis running texasfldswordpress.
There seems to have been a deletion.

[walton]

I think there is a little confusion concerning the photos.

The person that took the photos is a person we have been calling the Pilot. He is the one that has provided so many of the aerial photos of the compound over the years.

When the Pilot shares his photos he usually logs on here and gives a brief explaination:

http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/

The last batch of photos he has includes some photos of the Monks and the Monastery.

There is a lot of useful information at this site.

[walton]

There seems to have been a deletion.

Sometimes posts fall thru the floor boards. Sometimes posts are removed if the copyright rules are abused. Sometimes the author of posts ask that certain posts are removed. Sometimes posts and threads are moved and stored.

I really don't need to know who owns what board except it helps when trying to bring certain information to this board.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12214587

"But we're coming back tomorrow to do our best to try to reach resolution," he said.

FLDS member Willie Jessop also was discouraged, calling it a "difficult day."

"The attorney generals have demanded more than the community feels it can bear," Jessop said.

Wisan was pessimistic as he left the daylong meeting, saying the parties were "a long ways" apart and that productive discussion appeared to be "closed off."

Asked where the matter goes next, Wisan said, "Back to court."

[walton]

How should they decide? And who should decide?

If they still considered Warren the Prophet why isn't someone quoting Warrens words?

Not one comment from Warren or his lawyers have been made.

Shouldn't the local tax-payers that have been carrying the load over the last few years have a say?

Just curious

[walton]

Oler replaced Blackmore as the bishop and has not asked for legal aid or any other help in paying for his defence. In fact, Oler had no problem Wednesday posting a $40,000 bond in exchange for the court's permission to go to Salt Lake City for three days to attend a meeting.

(The meeting is with Bruce Wisan, the accountant appointed by a Utah court to oversee the FLDS's United Effort Plan trust. Before Blackmore became the FLDS bishop, he signed over all of his family's land to the trust and is now fighting to get it back.)


http://thehopeorg.org/news_canada_VS_Winston_wants_us_to_pay_his_legal_c osts.html

[walton]

This was printed in 2007


http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2007-09-06-mortgage-delinquencies-chart_N.htm

[walton]

Wisan, his attorneys and a board of former church members who serve as advisers left the talks after about 10 hours Thursday. He said he was disappointed and frustrated and had a different take on the state of the talks.

Asked where the discussions were headed, Wisan said: "Back to court. If the attorneys can get together on some issues, there may well be some talks, but right now that avenue seems to be closed off."

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story/Settlement-Talks-Over-Property-Trust-To-Continue/yx52J_YKYk2HHLEWG7Zn0g.cspx

[walton]

"It some ways it has gone better than I thought," said Jerry Jensen, a Utah assistant attorney general. "There are such diverse viewpoints here that you can't make everybody happy."

FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop shared the same view.

"It's been another long day, going through a lot of issues but we remain optimistic about getting a settlement," he said.

But some fear the state is capitulating because of a lawsuit filed by the FLDS against Wisan, Judge Lindberg and Shurtleff.

"Is it a compromise or a sell out?" asked Roger Hoole on Thursday. Hoole is an attorney representing plaintiffs whose lawsuits targeting the trust led the state to seek court protection of its assets.

Rod Parker, one of the FLDS attorneys, rejected that.

"My perception is the attorney general wants to find a final resolution for everybody concerned and is working very hard to protect all of the interests that are in play," he said.

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_12221851

[walton]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Here’s the invitee list:

Tim Bodily and Jerry Jensen of the Utah Attorney General’s Office

Bill Richardson of the Arizona Attorney General’s Office

Bruce Wisan and his attorneys, Jeff and Zach Shields

Greg and Roger Hoole, who represent the Lost Boys, Brent Jeffs and Elissa Wall in their lawsuits against the trust, FLDS church and sect leader Warren Jeffs

Trust advisory board members Carolyn Jessop, Don Timpson, Margaret Cooke and Seth Cooke

Richard Holm and Stephanie Colgrove, who represent an independent group of community residents

Jethro Barlow, who works for Wisan

David Darger, town manager for Colorado City and his attorney

Jerry Barlow, business manager for Hildale and his attorney

Willie Jessop and attorneys for the FLDS — Rod Parker, Jim Bradshaw, Ken Okazaki and Steve Clark

Jonathan and Sterling Harker and their attorneys




From other reports we know that Merril and Jim Oler are both there and as I am sure are their attorneys. Who else is there?

Do you guys they have a speaker phone for Warren and his attorney?

Is Wendell there?

[walton]

If there would be music playing in the background it might be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Ur45vTtw0

Georgia Satellites - "Keep Your Hands To Yourself" Live '87

I got a little change in my pocket going jingle lingle ling
Want to call you on the telephone baby
I give you a ring
But each time we talk I get the same old thing

[juliekan]

If there would be music playing in the background it might be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Ur45vTtw0

Georgia Satellites - "Keep Your Hands To Yourself" Live '87

I got a little change in my pocket going jingle lingle ling
Want to call you on the telephone baby
I give you a ring
But each time we talk I get the same old thing

With that group (list of participants) I can't see them ever coming to a resolution.

before long the only ones with change in their pocket with be all the attorneys :tonguewag:

[juliekan]

from Brooke's blog, about the UEP talks:

Merrill Jessop was there though he was "keeping largely out of sight."

Bruce Wisan refused to shake hands with attorney Jim Bradshaw at some point.

"Now there is a conversation I would like to hear." Willie and Carolyn Jessop were talking. :scared:

[walton]

Did you see everything I did?



Wow!!