Boy, 12, Arrested In Shooting Death Of Mom In Morrison

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.koco.com/cnn-news/18862319/detail.html

Sheriff's deputies were called Wednesday morning to the home of Shannon Renfro, 38, at 21140 County Road in Morrison.

OSBI agents say Shannon Renfro's 12-year-old son shot her in the stomach.

Deputies found her with a gunshot to the stomach. Paramedics rushed Renfro to Stillwater Medical Center, where she died a few hours later.

[BobbysGirl]

Oh Good Lord, What is this world coming to?

I can hardly fathom, hear, read news about children killing parents. And Parents killing children.

Something is seriously wrong. It makes me ill.

Why oh why?

BG

[Mint_Julep]

Oh Good Lord, What is this world coming to?

I can hardly fathom, hear, read news about children killing parents. And Parents killing children.

Something is seriously wrong. It makes me ill.

Why oh why?

BG

BG, I've asked myself that question more times than I can count. It seems as though every time I read a newpaper or news site there is another senseless killing. I can't believe they keep happening over and over again.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-12-year-old-kills-mother-story,0,2148188.story


"We determined that this was not an accidental shooting or suicide. This was intentional shooting by her 12-year-old son. OSBI is in the process of doing an affidavit and the child is in a juvenile facility," said OSBI Spokesperson Jessica Brown.

[TobyWong]

Scary. I swear i dont know how a mom or family not feel something like this coming on. Maybe they do and just think there is no way it would end up like this. I look at my own boys and know when they are sad,mad, happy, angry how could you not know a child had murderous thoughts?? And then get that child help before something like this happens. Seriously there are too many children just being ignored. This in no way justifies killing. The poor other child that was in the home. moo

[n/t]

How about asking ourselves why children, yes CHILDREN have access to loaded guns?

Isn't this the third one in less than a month? There's something seriously wrong with this picture.

[GentleBreeze]

Scary. I swear i don't know how a mom or family not feel something like this coming on. Maybe they do and just think there is no way it would end up like this. I look at my own boys and know when they are sad,mad, happy, angry how could you not know a child had murderous thoughts?? And then get that child help before something like this happens. Seriously there are too many children just being ignored. This in no way justifies killing. The poor other child that was in the home. moo

As far as I have read there is nothing saying this child was ignored or mistreated by his mother.

Even parents who are attentive and support their children both financially, morally and emotionally are being killed by their children these days.

If he was exhibiting bad behavior I am sure the parents thought they were adolescent growing pains and would eventually blow over. I don't think parents can wrap their minds around the concept that the child they love and has raised is actually plotting to murder them.

What is even sadder to me is instantly the parents of caregivers are blamed instead of the one who does the brutal acts. It makes me think for sure, we have become a blame game society, where everything is someone else's fault, even horrid murders.

[GentleBreeze]

How about asking ourselves why children, yes CHILDREN have access to loaded guns?

Isn't this the third one in less than a month? There's something seriously wrong with this picture.

It isn't that they have access to weapons, n/t, it is that some out of millions of children who are around weapons, are using them to complete their intents to murder human beings.

Use of knifes by youthful offenders as lethal weapons, are way up in our country too.

It will always be the mindset of the killer that makes anything a murder weapon to complete their intent. We have seen that before and parents being killed by firearms, knifes, beaten to death or bludgeoned to death by a baseball bat.

imoo

[n/t]

It isn't that they have access to weapons, n/t, it is that some out of millions of children who are around weapons, are using them to complete their intents to murder human beings.

Use of knifes by youthful offenders as lethal weapons, are way up in our country too.

It will always be the mindset of the killer that makes anything a murder weapon to complete their intent. We have seen that before and parents being killed by firearms, knifes, beaten to death or bludgeoned to death by a baseball bat.

imoo

I may be wrong but I think this is the first time I've seen 3 separate cases within a month of children under 15 shooting a parent. These are children and not teenagers. 10, 11 and 12 year old.

Very disturbing to say the least and I'll have to agree to disagree with you on the gun issue. There is no excuse for a child to have access to a gun.....loaded or not.

[GentleBreeze]

I may be wrong but I think this is the first time I've seen 3 separate cases within a month of children under 15 shooting a parent. These are children and not teenagers. 10, 11 and 12 year old.

Very disturbing to say the least and I'll have to agree to disagree with you on the gun issue. There is no excuse for a child to have access to a gun.....loaded or not.

These are the cases that have come to light, I am sure there are more across our country that we aren't aware of...........

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs when some parents have to make sure they protect themselves from being murdered by their own children.

I can see more and more parents making sure to lock their bedroom doors at night.:sad: So sad.

imo

[n/t]

Don't forget two 13 year old's that killed their brothers!

I must've missed that story. Was a gun used?

[momof6]

You can take everyone's guns away, but the criminal will still have them. You offer a criminal a good price for a gun and they can get you one. Just look at the high murder rates of the cities that guns are banned in. Where I live, you can where a gun in a holster if you want and it is not against the law. People don't do that here, but they can if they want. We have no murders with guns here.

Someone asked why so much killing. Everytime someone commits a crime, we have to find someone or something to blame. Instead of blaming the person who committed the crime.

[n/t]

You can take everyone's guns away, but the criminal will still have them. You offer a criminal a good price for a gun and they can get you one. Just look at the high murder rates of the cities that guns are banned in. Where I live, you can where a gun in a holster if you want and it is not against the law. People don't do that here, but they can if they want. We have no murders with guns here.

Someone asked why so much killing. Everytime someone commits a crime, we have to find someone or something to blame. Instead of blaming the person who committed the crime.

These are children.

[RayStar]

Looks like we must stop having children. This has got to STOP!

I truly don't understand this.:sad: I guess some gun owners don't use safety locks.

[GentleBreeze]

You can take everyone's guns away, but the criminal will still have them. You offer a criminal a good price for a gun and they can get you one. Just look at the high murder rates of the cities that guns are banned in. Where I live, you can where a gun in a holster if you want and it is not against the law. People don't do that here, but they can if they want. We have no murders with guns here.

Someone asked why so much killing. Every time someone commits a crime, we have to find someone or something to blame. Instead of blaming the person who committed the crime.

I agree. It is the criminals that uses the guns to hurt and murder people and not the legal gun owners.

I don't give anyone an excuse for murder. I blame the perpetrators who made the homicides happen. There is no excuse for murder imo. I do believe in self defense but these cases certainly aren't about self defense whatsoever. The victims never had a chance to defend themselves from the one intent on murdering them.

imoo

[penguin01]

You can take everyone's guns away, but the criminal will still have them. You offer a criminal a good price for a gun and they can get you one. Just look at the high murder rates of the cities that guns are banned in. Where I live, you can where a gun in a holster if you want and it is not against the law. People don't do that here, but they can if they want. We have no murders with guns here.

Someone asked why so much killing. Everytime someone commits a crime, we have to find someone or something to blame. Instead of blaming the person who committed the crime. Do you live in Kennesaw? Hate to see that rule here!
Anybody can get a gun here: the only thing that saves some lives is that some idiot has to run home to get his gun and misses his window of opportunity and maybe thinks better of the action by the time he is trying to find his target again. Kids (often teenagers and older, but with the maturity level of very young children) are killing each other in huge numbers.
I watched 48 hrs last night: young fella here named "Booby" allegedly killed another young man for disrespecting his ex (now Booby's girlfriend). Young Booby has 5 "baby mamas" with 2 more on the way. Unclear as to whether he works or not.
Boy oh boy wouldn't you just love to get rid of more than these boobs' guns?
Don't you think that one of the problems with carrying guns - and kids having access to guns is the lack of "impulse control" in an immature mind? Guns should be licensed (after background checks) and kept under lock and key when there are children around.
At least we haven't heard about little kids using automatic assault weapons: wonder what the purpose is for adults having them - outside of the military and LE?

[interested]

Penguin: Explain please why all of a sudden children can't be trusted with guns and can't possibly have the impulse control to not use them to kill their own parents, when less than 100 years ago all male children had guns of their own and were expected to use them to fill the family food stores, as well as work the family farm or ranch to the point school vacations were scheduled around the harvest, planting and roundup?

Yet, they didn't kill their parents. Guns as a means of survival, common, everyone had one and needed one, yet murder rates were not out of control and children did not kill their parents.

[momof6]

The kids here have hunters safety at age 11................Why would they have it at such a young age if they can't be trusted? My family has lived here for 6 generations, and they don't know of any kids that took a gun and killed a person.

Although we don't have any gangs in our community. The kids here save their own money to buy a hunting rifle thats better than their friends. Its kind of like teenagers that want the best car to show off. If your going to kill, you will find anything to kill with.

[penguin01]

Penguin: Explain please why all of a sudden children can't be trusted with guns and can't possibly have the impulse control to not use them to kill their own parents, when less than 100 years ago all male children had guns of their own and were expected to use them to fill the family food stores, as well as work the family farm or ranch to the point school vacations were scheduled around the harvest, planting and roundup?

Yet, they didn't kill their parents. Guns as a means of survival, common, everyone had one and needed one, yet murder rates were not out of control and children did not kill their parents. You are so right. I don't really know the answer of course, but here are some thoughts that quickly come to mind.
Less than 100 years ago we had: agrarian society, smaller homes, closer family interaction, no TV with violent news and shows, no video games, no violent movies.
You make the point yourself: all hands were needed on the farm and kids were raised to be very responsible; to participate in everything going on and help the family. They all worked hard; adults and kids (male and female). They learned young to be careful with tools (including guns).
I do believe that its in the raising and in the societal environment. Kids no longer have meaningful work or responsibilities. Nowadays you have to be 15 or 16 to even be able to find volunteer work. By that time many don't know what work is and don't care. Kids love to work, but its illegal to hire them. (well we do it with my GD who is a fabulous employee - and when the inspectors come around she wanders out front and looks like a cute customer.)

Sad to say many kids are not so much raised as "turned loose". Houses are bigger and kids hang out in their rooms with their TV and video games... or just roam the streets without purpose. I think there have been some surprising statistics about how many (few) families actually sit down at the dinner table together on a regular basis... never mind any other meals. A Lot of parents don't know what the kids are up to: building bombs in the family garage and nobody noticed?!! (Columbine).

Well - enough rant. You get the picture.
I get the sense that Momof6 lives in the country among folks who supervise and train their children. Wish all communities were like that.

[interested]

You are so right. I don't really know the answer of course, but here are some thoughts that quickly come to mind.
Less than 100 years ago we had: agrarian society, smaller homes, closer family interaction, no TV with violent news and shows, no video games, no violent movies.
You make the point yourself: all hands were needed on the farm and kids were raised to be very responsible; to participate in everything going on and help the family. They all worked hard; adults and kids (male and female). They learned young to be careful with tools (including guns).
I do believe that its in the raising and in the societal environment. Kids no longer have meaningful work or responsibilities. Nowadays you have to be 15 or 16 to even be able to find volunteer work. By that time many don't know what work is and don't care. Kids love to work, but its illegal to hire them. (well we do it with my GD who is a fabulous employee - and when the inspectors come around she wanders out front and looks like a cute customer.)

Sad to say many kids are not so much raised as "turned loose". Houses are bigger and kids hang out in their rooms with their TV and video games... or just roam the streets without purpose. I think there have been some surprising statistics about how many (few) families actually sit down at the dinner table together on a regular basis... never mind any other meals. A Lot of parents don't know what the kids are up to: building bombs in the family garage and nobody noticed?!! (Columbine).

Well - enough rant. You get the picture.
I get the sense that Momof6 lives in the country among folks who supervise and train their children. Wish all communites were like that.

Which all only confirms it has nothing to do with them not being able to understand their actions or control them, they can & do.

If we don't as a society insist on our standards of civilized behavior soon we'll be excusing away that 16 or 20 year old that kills because they were too young to control themselves.

Do we continue lowering our standards and our way of life in the process, or do we stand with the rule of law & insist on civility?

If parents can't or won't control their children and teach them the realities of living in a civilized society, it's up to the courts to take matters into hand when things are so out of control that laws are broken. We'd be far better off if the courts didn't overlook the little things, just as we'd be far better off and we'd face this far less often if parents actually required their children act in a civilized fashion and didn't make excuses and overlook the little things.

But the bottom line is, you can't keep lowering the bar, at some point enough is enough. Quite frankly when it comes to killing others, that's for sure the line that can't be crossed, if it is it needs to be address as the point of no return it is. The consequences need to reflect the severity of the offense.

If that means a pre-teen surrenders him/herself to court oversight for life, so be it. The parents apparently couldn't control him, now it's the courts job by default.

Please note I said court oversight, I don't think a definitive life of confinement is appropriate for a child this age, but I don't think they should be free and clear at 18 either. That's one charge that should never be expunged and long term oversight needs to be in place when they are deemed safe to return to society. Deemed safe needs to be by evaluation, not an age.


ETA: TY for such a well reasoned and pleasant response.

[penguin01]

I dont think there is much we disagree on. When children (way back then or now) are carefully raised by responsible adults who train them and teach them to think about what they are doing you don't have these problems.
In many States there are huge numbers of teen pregnancies. These numbers tend to coincide with high poverty rates, lousy schools and the lack of pre-K programs and affordable after-school activities. The girls (and their sperm donors) tend to have been raised (if you can call it that) by adults like themselves - poor, immature and poorly educated people who became adult (in age) but never actually grew up or learned responsibility.
In the Birmingham area the courts and Social Services are just overwhelmed - not enough people or the budget to deal with it all. Volunteers (CASA and others) community groups and churches are trying to help - but the numbers are just too much! even if we just foused on the 10 - 17 yr olds.
I think that pre-K; sex-ed and parenting classes starting in elemenatry or middle school (with those wonderful crying fake babies some classes use) might help some -but there is just not the money for it.

And I wish there was a law against a fella like "Booby" with the 5 baby mamas - 2 more babies on the way. (I posted about him earlier). I don't know how we could have oversight on his little hobby LOL. But its very clear that his children will not be raised by anyone with any common sense at all. Lord help them!

[Amy]

I am from an area where there is a great number of teen pregnancies. A former co-worker used to work for County Health. Several years ago, she said that 13, 14 y/o girls would come in for pregnancy tests, and some were quite upset when that test was negative!!!

DD is between jobs, her bf is a cook working 40+ hours a week, no benefits. He wants a baby, and she does, too. But she has said, we have no money, we are in no position to have a baby. But, all around her, girls her age are having babies, her niece 2 years younger than her is on her second pregnancy--2 different baby daddy, which is not an unusual factor--a different daddy for each baby. Anyway, she is in need of health care. When she investigated a program (not FREE, but a reduced rate) that is to take "kids" up to 25 yrs, she can't get on (maybe it's just for those who have always been on assistance?) She was told if you had a baby, you could get assistance. Oh, THANKS for eroding her values. A niece and my boss' daughter were both told (@ different colleges) when they were looking for grants, scholarships, assistance in higher education that there wasn't anything for them, but if they had a baby there is all kinds of assistance.

So, even our own government programs encourage having babies as a way to get assistance, whether for health or education, among other things. It's not just the parents, it's "society." And a great number of the girls are no more prepared to raise and nurture babies than the man in the moon. Sadly, it does seem to be true that a baby is a check in the bank, and there are a LOT of programs to get on, the "mom" ending up not having to pay for lots of things. There are some who feel their job is to raise baby--and it is government's job to provide the support for them to do so.

[tv4me]

I just want to know why this family would have guns in the house with two special needs kids. Was the 12-year-old one of the special needs kids? The article said that there was a younger brother. No other siblings were mentioned that I saw.

Why if you had two special needs children living with you and still felt you needed to own guns, wouldn't you lock up the guns so the special needs children couldn't get at them? The gun couldn't have been locked up that well, if the 12-year-old got hold of it.

[penguin01]

I thought that kids probably got babies to get on welfare, but had no idea about the govenment's education incentive to increase the numbers in out of wedlock babies. How very strange that is!

I did think that the rules were beginning to change - and that in many places you could only be on welfare for a certain period of time - and that you had to participate in some sort of training - GED and job skills, interview skills, etc - NOT college. And - I would hope that someday parenting classes would be required to get welfare. Once again - budget issues probably preclude alot of this.

[Leather&Lace]

Good heavens but I cannot believe another child has killed a parent.
What is happening in the world today?

IA about all the access to guns in the home. What is going on that children can get their hands on these guns. Unfortunately, I think we are going to hear more about crimes like this and also kids taking weapons to school. I think it is past time for all schools to put in metal detectors!!!!!
Why wait until there is another shooting and mass killing of innocent kids.
What if someone at school made this 12 y/o mad? What then? He kills at school. Protection. We need protection in the schools.
Really Scary.

[wolfi_2]

This Boy's case will be staying in the juvenile system.

Disposition hearing at May 29.
http://t.love.com/204173638