Thursday 2/26 Haleigh Cummings part II

[MiamiNice1]

That is it .. thank you

(:

But they did find her body in that massive landfill

If this poor child was tossed ... they can find her

IF

The thing with the Hacking case was that even knowing where to look for her in the landfill (Mark confessed) - it STILL took TEN days, I believe, before they found Lori Hacking. Discouraging.

imo

[Mimi428]

And if there were Kotex pads (sorry to be so blunt) in that dumpster, dogs would hit on them

Right?


With all the zillions of females of child-bearing years in the world, it would hardly seem worthwhile to even TRY to train a dog to sniff out a cadaver if the smell of menstrual blood would throw them off.

Same thing with steak or meat of some kind. Think of how many steak bones, pork chop bones, chicken bones, fish, half-eaten hamburgers, leftovers that have gone rotten & then thrown out & all the other things that are put in the trash - then multiply that by zillions.

It is human putrefaction that produces putrescine & cadaverine, which is what the dogs are trained to seek out.

JMO

[sunstar]

These kind of dogs are not trained for blood. They are trained for the scent a dead body gives off. Not dead animals or anything like. The specific scent of a dead human body. Now dogs are dogs some may show interest in something but that is not a hit.

And wouldn't these cadaver dogs still hit on the dumpster if Haleigh at one point had been in there?

[caphill]

Except that SO was cleared

?

He was never cleared. It was just stated that there was no known links from him to Haleigh. LE may be grilling him and they just haven't been able to get any evidence.

[emdragon]

And if there were Kotex pads (sorry to be so blunt) in that dumpster, dogs would hit on them

Right?

No they wouldn't

[Mimi428]

More than likely, yes. IMO.

But as Snugbug asked, why didn't they hit on other trash around the area. I'm sure there are waste in other peoples trash that has blood on it. Maybe not though. I don't know. It's weird.

They would never get past the first dumpster if they hit on menstrual blood. Good grief, think of the number of females of child-bearing capacity there must be just in that trailer park!

[Kelly3820]

And wouldn't these cadaver dogs still hit on the dumpster if Haleigh at one point had been in there?




YES! Thats what I was thinking because if it is true that 3 dogs HIT on that dumpster that a pretty big. Now if they should interest and it was mistaken for a hit but for all three to hit?

[threesnugbugs]

Cadaver dogs are supposed to hit on human remains which have at least started the process of putrefaction, which is different than simple decomposition. Putrefaction in humans includes the breakdown of amines & produces cadaverine & putrescine.

Simple dried blood (even if degraded), such as would be found on bandages which were on a living person, would not be the sort of thing a cadaver dog should hit on.

I'm sure like everything else, errors can occur.

JMO

This is what my understanding was-otherwise c. dogs would be hitting on so many irrelevant materials. My comment about mistakes was meant for the report and relaying of info, not the dogs, just so all know that I would never criticize the poor dogs :) It just seems that something so crucial to clarifying info in a report should be accurate and the reporting in everything, everywhere is getting pretty sloppy.

[Dovey]

This is so sad that they are looking in dumpsters.

I got online with my webcam to see and talk to my Grandkids today.
If you don't have one and especially if they live away it's a wonderful thing to have. My GD is only 4 and really can't type much so it's a great way to keep in touch, see her and talk to her.

[sunstar]

YES! Thats what I was thinking because if it is true that 3 dogs HIT on that dumpster that a pretty big. Now if they should interest and it was mistaken for a hit but for all three to hit?

Exactly! And these were supposed to be highly trained cadaver dogs so I do believe the next place to search is the landfill. :crying: MOO

[Aussie Gal]

From what i understand .. blood is blood is to these dogs

Dead or alive

I think because once blood is exposed to the air .. there is no such thing as "live blood"

Make sense?

It is not Blood the dogs hit on.. it's cadaverine Hence the name Cadavar dogs.
If you look them up on google there is tons of information on them. Even on how they train them... There is a video of two drops (from an eye dropper) of Decomp fluid put in the boot of a car, under the carpet.. And they found it within seconds! (I don't even want to know where they get the decomp fluid from)
Also, that's why the dead body needs to be dead for 2 hours or so because thats when the fluid starts to leak out.

[TaraCrazyHair]

This is so sad that they are looking in dumpsters.

I got online with my webcam to see and talk to my Grandkids today.
If you don't have one and especially if they live away it's a wonderful thing to have. My GD is only 4 and really can't type much so it's a great way to keep in touch, see her and talk to her.

I use webcam with both my grandkids and my oldest daughter who lives in NYC


Greatest thing ever!

That said ... I cannot believe it took LE this long to start searching the dumpsters!!!

That should have been done on day one

[Kelly3820]

Exactly! And these were supposed to be highly trained cadaver dogs so I do believe the next place to search is the landfill. :crying: MOO



Or Haleigh was moved? Do we know if that dumpster was emptied?

[Janz]

These kind of dogs are not trained for blood. They are trained for the scent a dead body gives off. Not dead animals or anything like. The specific scent of a dead human body. Now dogs are dogs some may show interest in something but that is not a hit.

This is my understanding as well, Kelly. These dogs can and do make mistakes as do humans. but have been used many times with great success.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Wouldn't it make sense the family was involved if both children were missing?


Not if it was an accidental death

[sunstar]

Or Haleigh was moved? Do we know if that dumpster was emptied?

Since it's been almost 3 wks. since she went missing, I was assuming it had been. :shrug:

[sunstar]

Not if it was an accidental death

Which I still think is possible, and not by a SO. MOO

[emdragon]

http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm

http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm

http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/

[?noanswer]

YES! Thats what I was thinking because if it is true that 3 dogs HIT on that dumpster that a pretty big. Now if they should interest and it was mistaken for a hit but for all three to hit?

I heard 3 dogs were barking. Maybe they were just dogs being dogs. In my neighborhood if one dog barks, they all start barking. Also remembering Caylee and the smell in the trunk and GA saying its a smell you never forget. If there was a smell in the dumpster, I think LE would have picked it up. JMO

[hooked2]

I can't answer that.

I will say that my own dog can sniff out a bandage with blood on it but he is not trained for anything other than keeping the couch warm.:biggrin:

........ tee hee. I can take a 3/4 x 3/4 inch piece of mulch from the garden and my parents german shepherd will fetch it in the grass.

Then I can take that tiny piece of mulch, walk across the yard, walk and stoop down behind 3 different trees placing the piece behind one, go back and tell her to find it. She will run to the first tree I went to and go through in order, and come back with that tiny speck on her big tongue and spit it out... she should have been a working dog. She would have loved it, but was adopted by an old retired couple instead.

[tmw]

This is not a TRash dumpsterit is a construction dumpster, right?
This is where construction-type excess is thrown.
Just to make it clear for all of us.

[Kelly3820]

I heard 3 dogs were barking. Maybe they were just dogs being dogs. In my neighborhood if one dog barks, they all start barking. Also remembering Caylee and the smell in the trunk and GA saying its a smell you never forget. If there was a smell in the dumpster, I think LE would have picked it up. JMO


These dogs are trained to make a certain stand to tell their handler that they made a hit. Its up to the handler to say that his or her dog made a hit. They are trained to show interest that handler knows what the dog is trying to say. Now if all three dogs made hits to their handlers thats pretty good but I am kind of thinking maybe they showed an interest in the dumpster.

[Vixerz]

I'm growing weary of the politics on Greta!

[msgatorslayer]

This is my understanding as well, Kelly. These dogs can and do make mistakes as do humans. but have been used many times with great success.

Right. So in this case, these cadaver dogs are either right and LE just hasn't found what they smell or they're wrong in that they're hitting on SOMETHING besides dead body. All 3 of them.

I watched a scent dog years ago go completely the wrong way. I told LE where I seen the perp run. Dog never found the guy cause he was sniffing in the wrong end of the woods. There is also the Lunsford case. What was it? 90 yards away from her home.

[cassidy]

:shrug:Anyone out there other than me that is just ASTONISHED by the idea that yet another child would have been dumped literally under the noses of the people looking for her?

Anyone else find it extremely difficult to believe that there was a massive hunt underway to find a missing child and no one apparently bothered to look in every dumpster near that trailer?

It must just be me.


Good grief.:confused:

I am. I always thought the first order of business was to start close, search hard and fan out. That didn't seem to be used with either Jessica or Caylee. Makes ya wonder what they have been doing there for the last 3 weeks.

[Kelly3820]

Yes, I remember the dog in Laci`s case. I find it more than a little odd that 3 dogs hit on that dumpster, yet found nothing, course that would depend on whether/when that dumpster was emptied. I hope we get to see those dogs working tomorrow.


I agree if all three made hits to their handlers thats pretty big. I think if that is true Haleigh was in there at some point.

[Mimi428]

The average age in that trailer park (manufactured home community) is probably 65 or higher.

JMO


And how long have Crystal, Misty, Ron's sister, Crystal's stepmother, searchers & volunteers & co-workers of Crystal's mother been there, on & off?

I don't think every last one of them was past menopause.

JMO

[Dovey]

I use webcam with both my grandkids and my oldest daughter who lives in NYC


Greatest thing ever!

That said ... I cannot believe it took LE this long to start searching the dumpsters!!!

That should have been done on day one

Totally should have been done and now I'm sure it's already been dumped after this long...so sad another little one missing.

Now I know why so many parents pick their children up from school especially if a SO lives nearby. I cringe everytime I think that my daughter walked home from school alone when she was only 5 back in the 1970's. I'm sure SO's were around then also. I'm so glad to know parents are more aware than back then.

[?noanswer]

Anyone out there other than me that is just ASTONISHED by the idea that yet another child would have been dumped literally under the noses of the people looking for her?

Anyone else find it extremely difficult to believe that there was a massive hunt underway to find a missing child and no one apparently bothered to look in every dumpster near that trailer?

It must just be me.


Good grief.:confused:

IIRC, in one or more of the articles that were linked, LE said bringing in dogs now was par for the course. I took it to mean that they wait a while to bring in cadaver dogs so that the scent would be very very distinct.

My opinion is that they stopped searching the water is that after a while a body will surface. I don't know how long that takes.

JMO

[CanCan]

Maybe Haleigh was in there and moved somewhere else. All three dogs hitting is pretty big news.


I'm still betting that she's in there - the police are just zipping their lips for tonight to give the perps a false sense of security - maybe get their tongues wagging. :tongueside:

jmo

[Kelly3820]

I'm still betting that she's in there - the police are just zipping their lips for tonight to give the perps a false sense of security - maybe get their tongues wagging. :tongueside:

jmo

I agree! She was in there and moved and that is way LE are getting 12 dogs and still looking in that area tomorrow.

[lune3]

And wouldn't these cadaver dogs still hit on the dumpster if Haleigh at one point had been in there?

I would think so, as long as the body was in the putrification stage during decomposition.
The cadaver dogs did hit on those 3 spots in the Anthony's backyard after Caylee had been transported away (at least we assume those spots were linked to Caylee's body)

So just maybe, there were remains in that dumpster and she was removed, either by perp or the dumpster had been emptied.

Horrible thought, still want to believe Haleigh is safe and alive somewhere...but it doesn't look very promising.

[CanCan]

That's what I'm wondering. It would be pretty risky doing that with LE around after Haleigh was missing, but in the middle of the night maybe?
Could be that a perp felt LE was too close for comfort and transported the remains elsewhere?

.......and a nightowl neighbor happened to see the deed going down and phoned in the tip that got the police there today with the dogs. :thumbup:

Oh, for crying out loud, Greta - get to the Haleigh case!!!

jmo

[?noanswer]

.......and a nightowl neighbor happened to see the deed going down and phoned in the tip that got the police there today with the dogs. :thumbup:

Oh, for crying out loud, Greta - get to the Haleigh case!!!

jmo

GVS will probably have about a min. or so and what do you want to bet, it will not be as up to date as the information on this board! JMO

[Kelly3820]

Is it me or does it seem Greta just can't do these cases anymore? She used lead off expecially after a day like today.

[Janz]

I would think so, as long as the body was in the putrification stage during decomposition.
The cadaver dogs did hit on those 3 spots in the Anthony's backyard after Caylee had been transported away (at least we assume those spots were linked to Caylee's body)

So just maybe, there were remains in that dumpster and she was removed, either by perp or the dumpster had been emptied.
Horrible thought, still want to believe Haleigh is safe and alive somewhere...but it doesn't look very promising.

At this point, this is my belief too. I sure hope LE has good reasoning to be saying they found nothing of consequence if this be true.

[Oregongal]

Just got back on after I took a break and after lurking all afternoon.
So it has been officially announced by LE that nothing pertaining to Haleigh was found in the dumpster? Can I relax my uptight tummy now?
TIA

[myownopera]

Greata just said "live update" from Florida concerning the Cummings case. Let's hope she is not just saying that.

moo

[Dovey]

I'm praying and lighting a candle that Haleigh is not in this dumpster or never was in it. Please join me.
:rose:

I do wish there was a lite candle smily on here.

[Mamie]

I'm growing weary of the politics on Greta!

You and me both! I said the other night that her show surely isn't as interesting as it used to be. They just talk the same old talk that everybody else talks. Her show really used to be unique, I thought, but I guess Fox likes it to be just like everybody else's show. (Little Boxes, Little Boxes......)

[?noanswer]

-----------------

I so agree with u on that. Maybe we can all email her and tell her how we feel.


Yea the guy on there is talking about how much money they are spending to find out if pigs stink. If they will give me that money, I'll answer that questions in a New York minute. JMO

[msgatorslayer]

:shrug:

I am. I always thought the first order of business was to start close, search hard and fan out. That didn't seem to be used with either Jessica or Caylee. Makes ya wonder what they have been doing there for the last 3 weeks.

Dogs, [scent-search] were brought to look for Jessie, asap. That morning. They did not track her across the street, IIRC, 90 yards away.

[Vixerz]

-----------------

I so agree with u on that. Maybe we can all email her and tell her how we feel.

Yes, let's! :thumbup:

:D

[Mimi428]

Yes, I remember the dog in Laci`s case. I find it more than a little odd that 3 dogs hit on that dumpster, yet found nothing, course that would depend on whether/when that dumpster was emptied. I hope we get to see those dogs working tomorrow.


Of all the stuff I have ever read about cadaver dogs (which hasn't been real recent) the one thing they have trouble with is hitting on an area where the body was placed TEMPORARILY. There is still debate on how long an object would retain the putrescine & cadaverine molecules on it. If a portion of the body remains, dogs have been able to recover things that are buried, under concrete, have been underwater, have been reduced to skeletal remains, etc. They truly are remarkable.

I'm sure the company supplying the dumpsters to the construction site has had some dumpster bins for many years - & so there is at least a statistical chance that a dead body was in one before Haleigh went missing. Or it could be that Haleigh's body was put in there, then removed. If 3 dogs hit on it, I think the likelihood that they were ALL wrong is not too great.

JMO

[Janz]

-----------------

I so agree with u on that. Maybe we can all email her and tell her how we feel.

You can try, but GVS is under contract to FOX and they are all about trying to compete with CNN on politics. She will probably tell us nothing new about Haleigh`s case, just too far behind as she was with Caylee

[tmw]

Is it me or does it seem Greta just can't do these cases anymore? She used lead off expecially after a day like today.

Does MSNBC have a legal show? Like what Greta USED to be. I know Gerald-o used to be their legal show guy. Have they ever replaced him? Fox needs Mike.


Are the paternal Grand parents of Haleigh at the tent??? Have we seen much of them?

[norwood]

I'm growing weary of the politics on Greta!

I stopped watching Greta a long time ago. She is nothing more than a puppet of Fox News Rupurt Murdoch's machine anymore. Once upon a time I really enjoyed her but now I can't stand to watch her.

[Oregongal]

Greata just said "live update" from Florida concerning the Cummings case. Let's hope she is not just saying that.

moo

myown, will you let those of us that don't get Greta know what this 'this live update' is please.
I hope she's not just saying this. Especially tonight and seeing NG was obviously pre taped and she was so far behind on what this board already knew.
TIA myown.

[Motomom]

I agree if all three made hits to their handlers thats pretty big. I think if that is true Haleigh was in there at some point.

Or somebody else at some point. Those dumpsters usually get moved from place to place. Is there an area to get under that dumpster I wonder? We had one here before and I can't recall if is sits flat to the ground or not.

[Vixerz]

You and me both! I said the other night that her show surely isn't as interesting as it used to be. They just talk the same old talk that everybody else talks. Her show really used to be unique, I thought, but I guess Fox likes it to be just like everybody else's show. (Little Boxes, Little Boxes......)

LOVE that show.


I think Haleigh is up after this commercial break.

[CanCan]

From what i understand .. blood is blood is to these dogs

Dead or alive

I think because once blood is exposed to the air .. there is no such thing as "live blood"

Make sense?

No. The dog handler on NG said that, while we're alive, we all have distinct odors - that's why dogs trained to find live bodies follow the scent of an object belonging to the victim. Once we die, however, we all emit the exact same odor. It's that odor, and that odor only, that cadaver dogs are trained to alert to.


jmo

[Dovey]

You and me both! I said the other night that her show surely isn't as interesting as it used to be. They just talk the same old talk that everybody else talks. Her show really used to be unique, I thought, but I guess Fox likes it to be just like everybody else's show. (Little Boxes, Little Boxes......)

Fox news is trying to keep their ratings up reporting on OB. It was posted in the news that fox was down in ratings because or this. Sorry I don't have the link.

[Kelly3820]

========================

Greta use to be a good source for these types of cases. But she's all about politics these days. And Lord help us if theres something in the news about Palin. Shes right there in Alaska with her. We have enough programs that deal in politics. She needs to get Mark Furhman on this.
jmo


I would love Mark to figure this out?

[Oregongal]

I'm praying and lighting a candle that Haleigh is not in this dumpster or never was in it. Please join me.
:rose:

I do wish there was a lite candle smily on here.

I standing with you Dovey. Just lit a bunch of candles on the candle site, lit my own personal candle right next to me and am praying like crazy.
When two or more stand together.....
:wub:

[Vixerz]

I stopped watching Greta a long time ago. She is nothing more than a puppet of Fox News Rupurt Murdoch's machine anymore. Once upon a time I really enjoyed her but now I can't stand to watch her.

I don't watch her, either...A "live" Haleigh update is the only reason I have it on tonight and I hope she doesn't disappoint.

[Mamie]

:sneaky:You can try, but GVS is under contract to FOX and they are all about trying to compete with CNN on politics. She will probably tell us nothing new about Haleigh`s case, just too far behind as she was with Caylee

I agree, that she won't have anything new to say on this than we already know. JMO

[Janz]

Of all the stuff I have ever read about cadaver dogs (which hasn't been real recent) the one thing they have trouble with is hitting on an area where the body was placed TEMPORARILY. There is still debate on how long an object would retain the putrescine & cadaverine molecules on it. If a portion of the body remains, dogs have been able to recover things that are buried, under concrete, have been underwater, have been reduced to skeletal remains, etc. They truly are remarkable.

I'm sure the company supplying the dumpsters to the construction site has had some dumpster bins for many years - & so there is at least a statistical chance that a dead body was in one before Haleigh went missing. Or it could be that Haleigh's body was put in there, then removed. If 3 dogs hit on it, I think the likelihood that they were ALL wrong is not too great.

JMO

Thanks so much for this explanation, Mimi.

[Politigal]

I'm wondering if the next search will be at whatever landfill the dumpsters are emptied at.

[Vixerz]

3 dogs DID hit on the dumpster. Police found no evidence, not even dead animals.


ETA: As per live reporter on Greta.

[breeze53]

Have you ever been to a landfill? I have unfortunately when we had to replace our garage doors and empty out the garage. Large items have to be taken to the dump. Almost immediately after we emptied out the back of the truck huge tractors with compactors crunched up and turned under all the contents so they were not even identifiable. I can't imagine after 3 weeks going by anything could be found there. The ground looked like a tilled row of farm land. Everything was totally smashed.

Me either but they did find Mrs Hacking. And yes i have been to a dump:laugh:

[Dovey]

I standing with you Dovey. Just lit a bunch of candles on the candle site, lit my own personal candle right next to me and am praying like crazy.
When two or more stand together.....
:wub:

three, four or more to lite candles and pray please. This little child needs all our prayers.
:rose:

Can you post the link , I don't know how to post it...TY

[newsjunkie]

Fox news is trying to keep their ratings up reporting on OB. It was posted in the news that fox was down in ratings because or this. Sorry I don't have the link.




http://www.ask.com/bar?q=fox+cnn+msnbc+ratings&page=1&qsrc=0&zoom=%3CKW%3ECNN%3C%2FKW%3E+Headline+News%7C%3CKW% 3ECNN%3C%2FKW%3E+World+News%7C&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsgroups.derkeiler.com%2FArchive% 2FRec%2Frec.arts.tv%2F2008-07%2Fmsg00013.html

[sunstar]

At least we're now finding out that the dumpster had not been emptied after Haleigh went missing ~ from reporter to Greta.

[hooked2]

I'm growing weary of the politics on Greta!

I know, doesn't she know we want all crime all the time :biggrin:

After watching her for the past few months, I'm absolutely convinced she wants to be a Palin :huh:

[?noanswer]

Has anyone said if the dogs all hit at the same time or was it different times and at how much time elapsed between each hit. JMO

[Aussie Gal]

Of all the stuff I have ever read about cadaver dogs (which hasn't been real recent) the one thing they have trouble with is hitting on an area where the body was placed TEMPORARILY. There is still debate on how long an object would retain the putrescine & cadaverine molecules on it. If a portion of the body remains, dogs have been able to recover things that are buried, under concrete, have been underwater, have been reduced to skeletal remains, etc. They truly are remarkable.

I'm sure the company supplying the dumpsters to the construction site has had some dumpster bins for many years - & so there is at least a statistical chance that a dead body was in one before Haleigh went missing. Or it could be that Haleigh's body was put in there, then removed. If 3 dogs hit on it, I think the likelihood that they were ALL wrong is not too great.

JMO


They are amazing - There was the recent one, the old childrens home where they dogs hit on a concrete wall.. they demolished the wall and it had a room behind it (the one with the bath in it) they found teeth, and writing on the walls in there and other things too - (I can't remember where it was though).
A dogs scent is VERY powerful and if trained correctly they can be a very good tool for LE.

It could be an item in the dumpster - not the body. There was so much stuff in it, somebody here said carpet and other things, the Decomp could have been on any item in there. And may not have been from Haleigh.

[Vixerz]

At least we're now finding out that the dumpster had not been emptied after Haleigh went missing ~ from reporter to Greta.

This just doesn't make sense...3 dogs can't be wrong. Something had to have been there & they're not saying or she was there & moved.

[Janz]

I know, doesn't she know we want all crime all the time :biggrin:

After watching her for the past few months, I'm absolutely convinced she wants to be a Palin :huh:

Greta lost me when she so sympathetic to JVS.

[odyssey]

Per Greta interview:

3 separate dogs hit on dumpster, no one knows why.

Dumpster has/had not been emptied since HaLeigh disappeared.

They even lifted the dumpster to see if anything was under it but nothing.


---------------

Imo it is possible that something may have been there and was moved.

moo

[Dovey]

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=fox+cnn+msnbc+ratings&page=1&qsrc=0&zoom=%3CKW%3ECNN%3C%2FKW%3E+Headline+News%7C%3CKW% 3ECNN%3C%2FKW%3E+World+News%7C&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnewsgroups.derkeiler.com%2FArchive% 2FRec%2Frec.arts.tv%2F2008-07%2Fmsg00013.html

TY very much.

[breeze53]

I'm praying and lighting a candle that Haleigh is not in this dumpster or never was in it. Please join me.
:rose:

I do wish there was a lite candle smily on here.


I will join you!

[Oregongal]

Greta seems to have found her niche hanging with the politicians. She seems to like that role the best for some reason. She has forgotten she that she was discovered as a guest commentator at the OJ trial. *sigh*, she now prefers to visit Alaska.

moo

Isn't she also a lawyer? I thought that was her role during the OJ trial. She was an experienced attorney.
I have to admit tho, I really didn't care for her then and now I am very glad I don't have her program on my Dish Network list.
From what I've heard, thanks to all the wonderful peeps who keep me informed on what happens on her show, she's no longer an attorney trying to commentate on legal issues.
She seems to have abandoned the legal side of herself.
Never the less, I am still hoping that someone who does watch will let us know what her 'live update' on the Haleigh case is.

[kkmiausa]

Thanks so much for this explanation, Mimi.


At the beginning of her talk with Greta she said the dumpster had not been changed since Feb. 9 and later she says they don't know when the last time was emptied. She says this is the first time it was emptied. Which is right???

[sunstar]

This just doesn't make sense...3 dogs can't be wrong.

I agree it doesn't make sense. :confused:

[newsjunkie]

TY very much.

YVW actually that link is outdated, this is the most recent


http://www.ask.com/bar?q=2009+ratings++cnn+msnbc+fox&page=1&qsrc=0&zoom=%3CKW%3EMSNBC%3C%2FKW%3E+News+Online%7C&ab=3&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediabistro.com%2Ftvnewser%2Fra tings%2Ffebruary_ratings_fnc_beats_cnn_and_msnbc_c ombined_in_total_viewers_109560.asp

[breeze53]

Except that SO was cleared

?



I still dont think a SO took her I think it's right there in the family. jmo

[Janz]

At the beginning of her talk with Greta she said the dumpster had not been changed since Feb. 9 and later she says they don't know when the last time was emptied. She says this is the first time it was emptied. Which is right???

Sadly that is journalism today. conflict

[kkmiausa]

At the beginning of her talk with Greta she said the dumpster had not been changed since Feb. 9 and later she says they don't know when the last time was emptied. She says this is the first time it was emptied. Which is right???



If they don't know when it was last dumped, how do they know it wasn't after Feb. 9

[sunstar]

At the beginning of her talk with Greta she said the dumpster had not been changed since Feb. 9 and later she says they don't know when the last time was emptied. She says this is the first time it was emptied. Which is right???

OK ~ I'm still defending the cadaver dogs :smile: ~ so maybe the reporter meant it was the first time LE had emptied the dumpster???

[CanCan]

After listening to the reporter on Greta, I'm guessing that Haleigh was initially put in the dumpster, and then moved later in the middle of the night. (I think a neighbor saw the move going down and called in a tip - that's why the search today with dogs.)

Why oh why weren't cadaver dogs used right away??? The reporter said that bloodhounds were used - but they, of course, would not hit on a dead body.

I think that Ron killed Haleigh, probably accidentally, and stuck her in the dumpster before leaving for work (his alibi). Misty has been acting so wacko because she has been covering for Ron.

jmo :mellow:

[kkmiausa]

After listening to the reporter on Greta, I'm guessing that Haleigh was initially put in the dumpster, and then moved later in the middle of the night. (I think a neighbor saw the move going down and called in a tip - that's why the search today with dogs.)

Why oh why weren't cadaver dogs used right away??? The reporter said that bloodhounds were used - but they, of course, would not hit on a dead body.

I think that Ron killed Haleigh, probably accidentally, and stuck her in the dumpster before leaving for work (his alibi). Misty has been acting so wacko because she has been covering for Ron.

jmo :mellow:

His behavior was just to strange on the 911 with all the sobbing.
Anxiousness yes but from unable to talk while sobbing sounds like grief and remorse to me.

[Oregongal]

three, four or more to lite candles and pray please. This little child needs all our prayers.
:rose:

Can you post the link , I don't know how to post it...TY

I'll look for the link Dovey, bluwaters is the one who usually posts the link. Hang on, I'll try and find it.

[Motomom]

At least we're now finding out that the dumpster had not been emptied after Haleigh went missing ~ from reporter to Greta.

I'm not sure how reliable this reporter was. She didn't even know about Misty getting requestioned again today.

[odyssey]

After listening to the reporter on Greta, I'm guessing that Haleigh was initially put in the dumpster, and then moved later in the middle of the night. (I think a neighbor saw the move going down and called in a tip - that's why the search today with dogs.)

Why oh why weren't cadaver dogs used right away??? The reporter said that bloodhounds were used - but they, of course, would not hit on a dead body.

I think that Ron killed Haleigh, probably accidentally, and stuck her in the dumpster before leaving for work (his alibi). Misty has been acting so wacko because she has been covering for Ron.

jmo :mellow:

What about everyone who saw HaLeigh after Ron went to work? He is the one person around her that has a substantiated alibi...

mooo

[sunstar]

I still dont think a SO took her I think it's right there in the family. jmo

I do too, especially with LE questioning Misty for the 4th time today. MOO

[Mamie]

Fox news is trying to keep their ratings up reporting on OB. It was posted in the news that fox was down in ratings because or this. Sorry I don't have the link.

You don't need a link for that----I believe ya. Heck I'd believe it if I said it! Seriously I am sure their ratings must be down. Colmes isn't with Hannity anymore and Greta's show is all politics, almost.

When she sinks her teeth into something she asks pretty decent questions, and I guess that's the attorney coming out in her but I do enjoy the questions she asks, if she's interested. And I used to love the panel she had on----and that's all gone. Fox seems to be missing the boat here! JMO

[bluwaters]

Candles for Haleigh

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=halei

I am feeling a mixture of relief that Haleigh was not found, and sadness that she is still gone.

Where is Haleigh?

[sunstar]

I'm not sure how reliable this reporter was. She didn't even know about Misty getting requestioned again today.

I'm rethinking what she said too after I posted her initial statement. I just am not seeing three separate highly trained cadaver dogs being that wrong!

[kkmiausa]

What about everyone who saw HaLeigh after Ron went to work? He is the one person around her that has a substantiated alibi...

mooo

Yes but what about after work when he got back home?????? There was time

[?noanswer]

I'm not sure how reliable this reporter was. She didn't even know about Misty getting requestioned again today.


As I said before she did the segment on Haleigh, it would not contain as much information as we already know. JMO

[breeze53]

I'm rethinking what she said too after I posted her initial statement. I just am not seeing three separate highly trained cadaver dogs being that wrong!

Me either if they all hit right on the same area.

[Pag Boi]

These dogs are trained to make a certain stand to tell their handler that they made a hit. Its up to the handler to say that his or her dog made a hit. They are trained to show interest that handler knows what the dog is trying to say. Now if all three dogs made hits to their handlers thats pretty good but I am kind of thinking maybe they showed an interest in the dumpster.


Is barking a "stand" or "alert" of a cadaver dog? TIA

[kkmiausa]

I'm rethinking what she said too after I posted her initial statement. I just am not seeing three separate highly trained cadaver dogs being that wrong!
Did anyone else record the show. I heard in initial report dumpster had not been emptied since February 9 and then later said they didn't know when it had last been emptied??? Isn't that a contradiction. How do they know for sure it hasn't been changed?

[?noanswer]

Exactly. That reporter on Greta tonight was winging it, imo.

BTW, Nancy had a dog handler demo on her show tonight. The cadaver dogs only find decompsed bodies and not blood, etc. Not directed at you, but I've seen posts tonight about that.

moo

Did NG have that same demo during one of her segments on Caylee? JMO

[odyssey]

Yes but what about after work when he got back home?????? There was time

I'm sorry but i just don't believe 12 minutes is enough time to kill your child, swear your girlfriend to silence get rid of the body and leave not one trace .. call me crazy :biggrin:


moo

[Mimi428]

It could be an item in the dumpster - not the body. There was so much stuff in it, somebody here said carpet and other things, the Decomp could have been on any item in there. And may not have been from Haleigh.

<snipped>

Exactly. We only have to think a bit to realize that there are so many places - like hotels, motels, apartment complexes & the like that may need a large dumpster for a short period of time - & carpeting & mattresses get tossed into them. People die in all those places & they may not be found immediately. So the carpet & mattress & bedding get tossed into the dumpster...

So many possibilities.

JMO

[Dovey]

I'll look for the link Dovey, bluwaters is the one who usually posts the link. Hang on, I'll try and find it.

TY
and lets all try to get the link and lite a candle and pray for Haleigh that she is not found in this dumpster.
It will break my heart.

[CanCan]

Yurp, I totally agree with you. Maybe it's been discussed before, if so I apologize, but does anyone else find it interesting that the video of Haleigh was just released what, a day or two ago? I wonder why they didn't release that video day one? This entire case is one bamboozled moment after the next.

jmo


My thought exactly. With the Caylee case fresh in everybody's mind - and that video of little Caylee played over and over - you'd think that Haleigh's family would follow the example and provide a video right off.

jmo

[tinkerbell]

Did NG have that same demo during one of her segments on Caylee? JMO

Yes, I believe so. I remembered it too.

[kkmiausa]

I'm sorry but i just don't believe 12 minutes is enough time to kill your child, swear your girlfriend to silence get rid of the body and leave not one trace .. call me crazy :biggrin:


moo Do we really know exact minute he got home

[bluwaters]

Is barking a "stand" or "alert" of a cadaver dog? TIA

As I understand it, it is whatever the dog is trained to do.
I suppose it is at the discretion of the handler.
I seem to recall the dog on NG sat down to alert.
One I saw on a youtube video scratched at the area.
So, good question.
I wonder what makes a handler decide on one alert stance over another?

[Dovey]

TY God
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/5pm/default.aspx
is saying Haleigh is not in the dumpster on the 11 news.

[sunstar]

Did anyone else record the show. I heard in initial report dumpster had not been emptied since February 9 and then later said they didn't know when it had last been emptied??? Isn't that a contradiction. How do they know for sure it hasn't been changed?

I suppose it's possible they know it hadn't been emptied since 2/9, but are unsure when it was last emptied. In order for the dogs to be correct, though, it seems the dumpster would either have to be emptied or somebody removed the body from it. :confused:

[odyssey]

Do we really know exact minute he got home

We know he got off at 3 and it's about a ten minute drive home .. add in getting to his car .. driving home .. getting in the house and the 911 call was at 3:27 .. there was definitely not enough time.

moo

[Oregongal]

Here you go Dovey....

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/...l=eng&gi=halei

[Politigal]

this article says that investigators didn't find anything in the dumpster pertaining to the case

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=132315&provider=rss

[Dovey]

Here you go Dovey....

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/...l=eng&gi=halei

That link did not work for me.

[Vixerz]

What about everyone who saw HaLeigh after Ron went to work? He is the one person around her that has a substantiated alibi...

mooo

Maybe Misty accidentally harmed her and her brother helped her move her body from the house to the dumpster w/his van? :shrug:

Exasperating this is!

I still hope & pray she is alive, I'm just not very optimistic of it due to the reality of the world today. I hope they find the precious darling her very soon, either way. I have a 1 1/2 year old niece who is my world...She's the eyeballs in my head & I think of here during these cases.

[Janz]

Maybe Misty accidentally harmed her and her brother helped her move her body from the house to the dumpster w/his van? :shrug:

Exasperating this is!

Did anyone hear/see a report of a vehicle being impounded? I saw an earlier post saying it was not Ron`s truck as he was seen driving it....

[Oregongal]

The reporter she used tonight was misinformed. She erronously said Misty hasn't been interviewed since last week. Helloooo Greta, Misty was questioned by LE for three hous today.

Oh geez!!!
Why can't these reporters get together and find out the real facts and report them?!
:angry:

[tinkerbell]

Did anyone hear a report of a vehicle being impounded? I saw an earlier post saying it was not Ron`s truck as he was seen driving it....

I did hear of a vehicle being impounded; but that was earlier in the case.

JMO

[Janz]

you think a four year old helped move a dead body?

Good Golly Miss Molly i've heard it all now........:unsure:

I think she is referring to Misty`s brother.

[Janz]

I did hear of a vehicle being impounded; but that was earlier in the case.

JMO

hmmm. thanks tinkerbell.

[Vixerz]

I think she is referring to Misty`s brother.

Yes, I was!

[Mimi428]

Is barking a "stand" or "alert" of a cadaver dog? TIA

Waaaayyeellllllll, that depends...

Each dog & handler are typically together & used together every time. So it is up to each handler to train their specific dog on how to 'alert'.

Search & RESCUE dogs are oftentimes pretty animated when they alert - barking, showing excitement. But usually, a cadaver dog is trained to alert in a more quiet fashion. We hear about them in cases like this, but they are used a lot in areas which have suffered a catastrophe' - a flood, tornado, landslide, building collapse, where many people may be missing. Recovering corpses is a grim business, so it is fairly common (I think more common than not) for cadaver dogs to have a more quiet 'alert' signal.

Now I can absolutely believe there were dogs barking in the general vicinity, because with so much LE & all those trainers & dogs roaming around, I am sure it set the neighborhood dogs into a real tizzy.

JMO

[CanCan]

I would think so, as long as the body was in the putrification stage during decomposition.
The cadaver dogs did hit on those 3 spots in the Anthony's backyard after Caylee had been transported away (at least we assume those spots were linked to Caylee's body)

So just maybe, there were remains in that dumpster and she was removed, either by perp or the dumpster had been emptied.

Horrible thought, still want to believe Haleigh is safe and alive somewhere...but it doesn't look very promising.

I'm thinking that since it's a construction dumpster as opposed to a garbage dumpster, it doesn't get dumped until it's full. It probably hasn't been dumped since Haleigh went missing........but the poor little girl was stashed in there initially.

jmo :crying:

[tinkerbell]

hmmm. thanks tinkerbell.

Here's a link to an article that mentions the vehicle being impounded:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,497744,00.html

[Oregongal]

That link did not work for me.

So sorry Dovey, I thought I did it right.
Go back to post #420....blu posted the link to the candle site for Haleigh.
Since I always use her links, surely it will work.
Otherwise....
blu....calling out for another link for the candle site for Haleigh...again.
I tried darlin to post it and so appreciate you doing this day after day for those of us (me) who don't seem to post the link properly enough to work for other.
:blushing:
Thanks sweetie.

[Janz]

Here's a link to an article that mentions the vehicle being impounded:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,497744,00.html

Thanks, tinkerbell.

[odyssey]

But then, using your theory, if he only had a ten minute drive home, what was he doing the other 17 minutes prior to calling 911?

jmo

It's not really a theory .. i was giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt and the largest margin of time he could have had to do what that poster thinks he did. I was saying even with the largest margin of time available he still did not have enough time to have caused harm to his daughter.

Personally I think he, like others i have known, did not run to his truck to go home so late but probably stopped by a locker if he has one, gathered his stuff if he had a lunch box or something, .. talked to others who were getting out of work at the same time ... stuff like that. i think he probably did not leave work till around 3:10 or so. It's all just theory of course but i think he probably got home about 3:20-3:25, listened to Misty, and started freaking out ..

moo

[CanCan]

Does MSNBC have a legal show? Like what Greta USED to be. I know Gerald-o used to be their legal show guy. Have they ever replaced him? Fox needs Mike.


Are the paternal Grand parents of Haleigh at the tent??? Have we seen much of them?

:laugh: LOL @ "GERALD-O"

[CanCan]

I would love Mark to figure this out?

Me too :wub: LOL

[Dovey]

That link did not work for me.

I got the link to work and there are only 35 lite candles...please join me and help pray and lite one for Haleigh.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng

[Missys Mom]

I tried to search for this thread, but found nothing (I never do). Did anyone notice in the Christmas video Haleigh received a lavender hat as a gift. Isn't there a photo of Jessica Lunsford wearing a similar hat? I just thought it was kinda odd, it didn't bode well with me.

[CanCan]

His behavior was just to strange on the 911 with all the sobbing.
Anxiousness yes but from unable to talk while sobbing sounds like grief and remorse to me.

Or maybe even overacting. :confused:

[Dovey]

You don't need a link for that----I believe ya. Heck I'd believe it if I said it! Seriously I am sure their ratings must be down. Colmes isn't with Hannity anymore and Greta's show is all politics, almost.

When she sinks her teeth into something she asks pretty decent questions, and I guess that's the attorney coming out in her but I do enjoy the questions she asks, if she's interested. And I used to love the panel she had on----and that's all gone. Fox seems to be missing the boat here! JMO

Don't get me really started on that because everytime I go on the political board I gotta come back here with a new pretty dress. I'm in pink now, it was red, It will never be blue. I guess next time I'll pick purple...ok...lol

[CanCan]

What about everyone who saw HaLeigh after Ron went to work? He is the one person around her that has a substantiated alibi...

mooo

I'm not certain that we know that for sure. Could be a cover-up story they think we're buying.

jmo

[Oregongal]

Exactly. That reporter on Greta tonight was winging it, imo.

BTW, Nancy had a dog handler demo on her show tonight. The cadaver dogs only find decompsed bodies and not blood, etc. Not directed at you, but I've seen posts tonight about that.

moo

Yes Swarovski, and she had this same dog handler and dog on for the Caylee case.
Since then I've read much about cadaver dogs and they are trained to only hit on human decomp. As you said, not blood, not bandaids with blood on them, not animal or fish decomp. Not rotten meat or poultry. Yes, there is a very small percentage of false-positive hits, but the percentage of their success is so much higher that I, for one, trust that those thoroughly trained dogs are right on. I wish I has some links, but I cleared them from my puter after Caylee was found. Who knew I would need them so soon after for another child gone missing.
I tried my best not to get involved in Haleigh's case, but my heart just would not let me stay away. My Lord just kept telling me I have to pray and have hope.
I am praying like crazy that Haleigh will be found alive and brought back to her family. After Caylee, I don't think my heart can take another baby taken from this life.
I truly hope that LE is not holding back anything they've gotten from this evening's dumpster dive.
If I wake up tomorrow and find they were just keeping something from the public in order to notify the family and give them some time, I will understand, but I will be heartbroken as well.
For Haleigh
:rose::rose::rose:

[CanCan]

Yes but what about after work when he got back home?????? There was time

You are brilliant!!! :w00t:

jmo

[CanCan]

Did anyone else record the show. I heard in initial report dumpster had not been emptied since February 9 and then later said they didn't know when it had last been emptied??? Isn't that a contradiction. How do they know for sure it hasn't been changed?


Be right back............................

[Motomom]

I tried to search for this thread, but found nothing (I never do). Did anyone notice in the Christmas video Haleigh received a lavender hat as a gift. Isn't there a photo of Jessica Lunsford wearing a similar hat? I just thought it was kinda odd, it didn't bode well with me.

Yes.. Was very eerie IMO.. i hope and pray her outcome is not the same :(

[Dovey]

His behavior was just to strange on the 911 with all the sobbing.
Anxiousness yes but from unable to talk while sobbing sounds like grief and remorse to me.


Sounded more to me that she was high on something like Meth and her eyes the next day dialated, she could not keep them open in the sunlight is nearly all the proof I need. I also asked a family member who is a medical dr to view that clip and he stated to me..well I never treated this person but I would say 99 per cent she is high on something. He did not see this with RC the father just the GF

[CanCan]

Did anyone else record the show. I heard in initial report dumpster had not been emptied since February 9 and then later said they didn't know when it had last been emptied??? Isn't that a contradiction. How do they know for sure it hasn't been changed?



They know for sure the dumpster hasn't been emptied since Feb 9 - don't know when it was emptied previous to that date. It was emptied today for the purpose of the search.

So, they won't be searching the landfill, imo.

[callmetree]

I got the link to work and there are only 35 lite candles...please join me and help pray and lite one for Haleigh.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng
thank you dovey:wub:

[Oregongal]

Sounded more to me that she was high on something like Meth and her eyes the next day dialated, she could not keep them open in the sunlight is nearly all the proof I need. I also asked a family member who is a medical dr to view that clip and he he stated...well I never treated this person but I would say 99 per cent she is high on something.

I really am not wanting to attack either Ron or Misty or Chrystal.
I am sure they are going thru the most painful experience anyone could ever go thru.
But, I'm sorry, I have to say that I agree with your doctor family member. I don't know about the 911 call, but the very first time I saw Ron and Misty on camera I thought they were stoned.
And God help me, I have continued to think the same each time I've seen them since.
I have even talked to my dd (28 yrs old) about it and had her look at some of the on camera appearences and she thinks the same.
I have taken into account how devastated they are. How this whole media attention, LE being around all the time, strangers appearing and surrounding them....all of that have certainly affected them.
I've also thought how if it were my child I would most likely have to be sedated. But, admittedly, thinking of the past drug use history, I have been leaning toward them being high on non prescribed drugs.
I've even thought when thinking about this case late into the night...how the heck are they able to do this with so many people around all the time?
If I'm thinking like this, as are several others here are, certainly LE is thinking the same and are looking very closely into that aspect. I would like to know if all the close members of this family, but especialy Ron and Misty have taken drug tests.
I bring this up because I've kept wondering if there wasn't a drug deal that went bad and someone decided they would teach Ron and/or Misty a huge lesson and try to scare the sh** out of them by taking Haleigh. Now after so much time has gone by....I'm beginning to think it wasn't that at all. Certainly, if it was this, Haleigh would be home by now. If only for the reason those who may have wanted to teach a lesson were scared into returning her because of LE and all the media.
Now I just keep thinking, something isn't adding up here. Tonight was scary thinking that Haleigh was in that dumpster.
Where does LE go from here?
As hard as I'm praying she's alive and will be found. As much hope I have for this, I cannot help think of the statistics about lil ones being gone so long and the results turn into the horror that the child is not alive.
Sorry this is so long, but my mind and heart are just so upset right now and I had to spew.
Thanks for listening.
And continue to pray with me that Haleigh will be the exception to all the stats.
:rose:

[Zeus]

Thank you for that insight.


Thank you for being here.

[callmetree]

We have babies being thrown away like they are garbage and then we have someone having a liter of babies..What is wrong with this world?? :cursing:
ITA agree with you SW. this is only the second post i've made on this forum. will the madness ever stop? the caylee case has broken my heart and i'm just not sure i can let myself get as involved with this one. i do read all the great post you guys write though. i hope this precious child is found safe and returned to her family. i will keep lurking but it justs tugs at my heart strings. i just do not understand how anybody could hurt a child. they are so helpless. i do appreciate all the updates and want to thank each and every poster.:crying:

[TxLady2]

It's not really a theory .. i was giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt and the largest margin of time he could have had to do what that poster thinks he did. I was saying even with the largest margin of time available he still did not have enough time to have caused harm to his daughter.

Personally I think he, like others i have known, did not run to his truck to go home so late but probably stopped by a locker if he has one, gathered his stuff if he had a lunch box or something, .. talked to others who were getting out of work at the same time ... stuff like that. i think he probably did not leave work till around 3:10 or so. It's all just theory of course but i think he probably got home about 3:20-3:25, listened to Misty, and started freaking out ..

moo

I read somewhere recently that it was at least a 20 min. drive from the job site to his house, because of the route he had to take. Not sure who posted that, but they seemed to know what they were talking about, and knew which bridge he was working on. But at any rate, just because your shift ends at 3:00, does not mean you can always leave the job at that exact time. I've never had a job in my life that I always left work at the same time every day. Maybe he stopped somewhere for a soda or cup of coffee.

[Zeus]

Thank you for noticing that I'm here.So what's your theory on 3 dogs hitting on the dumpster. You tell me and I'll tell you.

[4Kids]

Hello latenighters. Just had chance to log on and catch up. I only have one question....has it been verified by LE that 3 cadaver dogs alerted on the dumptster. I have read the neighbors report hearing barking...however, barking is not usually an alert sign, is it. It is usually a silent signal between dog and trainer? MOO

[4Kids]

Any chance you're single?:loveeyes: Do you come here often?

My god justamamaa...i never noticed that smiley before. For some reason, it struck me funny. I spewed everywhere. LOL.

[BobbisAngel]

To clarify: it was reported that LE has told everyone at the tent sites to remain at their sites and not to come to the dumpster area.

Note: they were not told they must stay in their tents. [JMO]


I would imagine they want the family to stay up on the property just in case they find Haleigh's body in a dumpster. It would be a terrible thing to find the body and in the shape it will be in. I think LE always prefers the parents don't go on the seaches, etc, too.

[Zeus]

Hello latenighters. Just had chance to log on and catch up. I only have one question....has it been verified by LE that 3 cadaver dogs alerted on the dumptster. I have read the neighbors report hearing barking...however, barking is not usually an alert sign, is it. It is usually a silent signal between dog and trainer? MOO

They may have been barking at some point just because they're dogs.

Here's what I think----I think they should take the contents of that dumpster to a different location and bring the dogs back and see if they hit on it again.

[4Kids]

They may have been barking at some point just because they're dogs.

Here's what I think----I think they should take the contents of that dumpster to a different location and bring the dogs back and see if they hit on it again.

Hey Zeus. I though I was here alone. Thanks for the reply. Did LE confirm 3 alerts/hits? Thanks.....

[TxLady2]

Hmmmmmmmm........Also it seemed to me Misty was reciting a story not an actual event. Where is a body language expert when you need them?

I miss Dan A`s show on MSNBC.......he pulled no punches and called them like he saw them. I also miss Greta`s panel and have emailed her about this.........any of you feel the same I suggest you let her know. She is my favorite interviewer on TV and have wished she would go down there like she did many times with the Caylee case. Don't know how far she would get with Ron's family.....she is w/ FOX after all. Think Geraldo done blew that avenue. Wish Larry King would do a show about this.

Oh, I miss Dan Abrams too!!! Does he ever show up anymore, anytime? He was really good. I don't know what's happened to Greta, remember when she stayed on the NH case for months?? And at first she covered the Caylee case pretty much but stopped doing that, even.
Actually, I rarely watch Fox anymore, because they have been on politics for a LONG time, even way before the election. I used to keep Fox News on all day long, and it is BORING now.
I make it a habit usually to never miss Mike Galanos, and Jane VM. Don't much care if I miss NG, unless someone else covers for her.
I hope we hear some news tomorrow, but I cannot accept that they did not find anything significant. I am praying for Haleigh and her family.

[Zeus]

Hey Zeus. I though I was here alone. Thanks for the reply. Did LE confirm 3 alerts/hits? Thanks.....

I don't know if LE ever confirms or denies anything in this case. :smile: But that's what the shows were reporting tonight---that 3 different dogs alerted at the site of the dumpsters.

[4Kids]

I don't know if LE ever confirms or denies anything in this case. :smile: But that's what the shows were reporting tonight---that 3 different dogs alerted at the site of the dumpsters.

Yes, LE is interesting in this case. I think it is a tactic on their part. Certainly not making the press happy. That is why I asked this question. I truly believe the press is making things up, since they have nothing from LE. Lots of running by the seat of one's pants going on here, misinformation, etc. Until I see something from LE, I can't believe three cadaver dogs alerted and nothing was found. A body was there and moved...or the press is making up the three dog altert. Frustrating. Grrr. I sure hope they find this child. MOO

[Vixerz]

Yes, LE is interesting in this case. I think it is a tactic on their part. Certainly not making the press happy. That is why I asked this question. I truly believe the press is making things up, since they have nothing from LE. Lots of running by the seat of one's pants going on here, misinformation, etc. Until I see something from LE, I can't believe three cadaver dogs alerted and nothing was found. A body was there and moved...or the press is making up the three dog altert. Frustrating. Grrr. I sure hope they find this child. MOO

From the article http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html#-

Investigators said three cadaver dogs noticed a scent in the same spot. The dogs and others had been combing the area as part of routine search.

"It could be various items, and may not necessarily be something related to the case," said Brian Selzer, of Canine Search and Rescue as investigators searched through the plastic bags found in the Dumpster.

[4Kids]

From the article http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html#-

Investigators said three cadaver dogs noticed a scent in the same spot. The dogs and others had been combing the area as part of routine search.

"It could be various items, and may not necessarily be something related to the case," said Brian Selzer, of Canine Search and Rescue as investigators searched through the plastic bags found in the Dumpster.

Thanks Vixerz. What the heck does noticed mean? Is that hit or alert? Noticed. Man, this is aggravating. MOO

[4Kids]

I was just thinking the same thing, but I didn't know how to word it politely. In almost any dumpster, you'd find personal things like this so how would the dogs not hit on every one of them?

When I posted on the Madeline McCann board, I asked a zillion questions about these dogs. I was told no...they don't hit on bandaids, pads, etc.. Death smell is chemically different? I am not saying that is so...let me see if I can dig up some of the old posts. The dog posts got truly heated. MOO

[BobbisAngel]

His behavior was just to strange on the 911 with all the sobbing.
Anxiousness yes but from unable to talk while sobbing sounds like grief and remorse to me.


If you had ever lost a child to murder you wouldn't be saying what you are saying. I've been there and Ron's behavior during the 911 call is normal behavior of a parent with a missing child...a parent who is scared to death that the end result will be horrible. You think it was remorse because this father was sobbing over the phone? I'm surprised that he could even talk at all. If he hadn't been sobbing or crying would you have thought something was wrong with that...and it meant that he was guilty? Of course he was sobbing! His little five yr old daughter was missing. I hope you never have to go through such a nightmare but if you do your whole attitude will change as far as Ron goes.

[4Kids]

If you had ever lost a child to murder you wouldn't be saying what you are saying. I've been there and Ron's behavior during the 911 call is normal behavior of a parent with a missing child...a parent who is scared to death that the end result will be horrible. You think it was remorse because this father was sobbing over the phone? I'm surprised that he could even talk at all. If he hadn't been sobbing or crying would you have thought something was wrong with that...and it meant that he was guilty? Of course he was sobbing! His little five yr old daughter was missing. I hope you never have to go through such a nightmare but if you do your whole attitude will change as far as Ron goes.

Bless you BobbisAngel. I don't know your story, but i agree. I am not sure what the "appropriate" way for Ron to behave is. Or anyone else that goes through this. What exactly do you folks think Ron should have said on the call and how he should now behave? I am truly curious. MOO

[Dovey]

I really am not wanting to attack either Ron or Misty or Chrystal.
I am sure they are going thru the most painful experience anyone could ever go thru.
But, I'm sorry, I have to say that I agree with your doctor family member. I don't know about the 911 call, but the very first time I saw Ron and Misty on camera I thought they were stoned.
And God help me, I have continued to think the same each time I've seen them since.
I have even talked to my dd (28 yrs old) about it and had her look at some of the on camera appearences and she thinks the same.
I have taken into account how devastated they are. How this whole media attention, LE being around all the time, strangers appearing and surrounding them....all of that have certainly affected them.
I've also thought how if it were my child I would most likely have to be sedated. But, admittedly, thinking of the past drug use history, I have been leaning toward them being high on non prescribed drugs.
I've even thought when thinking about this case late into the night...how the heck are they able to do this with so many people around all the time?
If I'm thinking like this, as are several others here are, certainly LE is thinking the same and are looking very closely into that aspect. I would like to know if all the close members of this family, but especialy Ron and Misty have taken drug tests.
I bring this up because I've kept wondering if there wasn't a drug deal that went bad and someone decided they would teach Ron and/or Misty a huge lesson and try to scare the sh** out of them by taking Haleigh. Now after so much time has gone by....I'm beginning to think it wasn't that at all. Certainly, if it was this, Haleigh would be home by now. If only for the reason those who may have wanted to teach a lesson were scared into returning her because of LE and all the media.
Now I just keep thinking, something isn't adding up here. Tonight was scary thinking that Haleigh was in that dumpster.
Where does LE go from here?
As hard as I'm praying she's alive and will be found. As much hope I have for this, I cannot help think of the statistics about lil ones being gone so long and the results turn into the horror that the child is not alive.
Sorry this is so long, but my mind and heart are just so upset right now and I had to spew.
Thanks for listening.
And continue to pray with me that Haleigh will be the exception to all the stats.
:rose:

I only sent the video links and asked for his medical opinion based on the eyes of the young girl and the guy. As I said my DD's BIL only said he saw what appearred to be a girl on something of a drug and he suspected meth. He did not see the same with RC in his opinion, even though he never treated anyone in the video's. That's is stated to protect any opinons by him as a medical dr. I didn't tell him why I wanted an opinion and he had never seen any of this case before I sent it.

[lune3]

Bless you BobbisAngel. I don't know your story, but i agree. I am not sure what the "appropriate" way for Ron to behave is. Or anyone else that goes through this. What exactly do you folks think Ron should have said on the call and how he should now behave? I am truly curious. MOO

I agree too.
Right from the very beginning of this case, and since, I have not suspected that Ron had anything to do with his daughter's disappearance. That 911 call, to me, seemed genuine and spontaneous, filled with fear, rage, confusion, and shock. That he cursed and raved at the operator, and Misty, and threatened to shoot whomever was responsible, was absolutely natural under those circumstances. No doubt horrible thoughts went through his mind, made worse by feeling totally helpless and out of control.
Had he been cool and calm, frankly, I would have had some suspicions.

[Pag Boi]

From the article http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html#-

Investigators said three cadaver dogs noticed a scent in the same spot. The dogs and others had been combing the area as part of routine search.

"It could be various items, and may not necessarily be something related to the case," said Brian Selzer, of Canine Search and Rescue as investigators searched through the plastic bags found in the Dumpster.

From your link, here is a direct quote from LE on THIS case. More contradictions I guess.

"There's several anomalies that can cause a K-9 to hit. We don’t know what's in the mind of the dog. The dog did what's it trained to do. We did what we have to do afterward, which is to search. Everything comes done to the human search, and we found nothing of consequence," said Putnam Sheriff's Office Maj. Gary Bowling. "We don’t know why the dog hit, but there's nothing there that indicates that we need to search any further.Investigators said they did search around the same Dumpster days ago, shortly after Haleigh's disappearance, but found nothing. They said the never went into the Dumpster until Thursday evening.

[Leanne Weich]

Just thinking aloud here. These guys don't appear to be affected by any odor.
Does anyone know how long decomp smell lasts? Or it could be that remains of fluids or blood is in there in a separate bag from where Haleigh really is, a blanket, clothing etc.,... or that she was removed.

I hope it's just a bandage of some sort, would dogs hit on a bit of dried blood?

Yes, they could/would. Blood on a bandage or wound dressing decomposes too. My b-i-l trains both scent and cadaver dogs for the police force. Whether a dog only picks up human decomp. depends on how well it is trained apparently. Dogs are renowned for picking up on animal decomp. if they are not really well trained apparently.

[Leanne Weich]

These are cadaver dogs - trained specifically to find dead bodies. They would not alert to dried human blood from a living human being.

jmo

Blood is blood and once exposed to the air, it decomposes. The dogs would alert to any old blood. In fact, most cadaver dogs, at some stage in theor careers, alert to animal decomp.

[Leanne Weich]

That is it .. thank you

(:

But they did find her body in that massive landfill

If this poor child was tossed ... they can find her

IF

We had a case here in Australia where a guy killed his wife and daughter by shooting them with a spear gun and he dismembered them and they landed up in the landfill. The wife's remains were found but the daughter never has been. Sorry, I don't recall the names.

[Pag Boi]

Yes, they could/would. Blood on a bandage or wound dressing decomposes too. My b-i-l trains both scent and cadaver dogs for the police force. Whether a dog only picks up human decomp. depends on how well it is trained apparently. Dogs are renowned for picking up on animal decomp. if they are not really well trained apparently.


ITA. The article that keeps getting quoted seems to be selectively quoted JMOO.

Here is what Selzter is sourced as saying after the author's unsourced, unquoted claim that 3 dogs hit same spot.....

Selzer explained that the dogs brought to Satsuma on Thursday have been trained to alert only on the scent of human decomposition, not meat or dead animals. He said the dogs could hit on a something a small as a bandage used to cover a person's bloody cut.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html

[beachpatty]

Morning Folkes,
O my, what a day yesterday, I hope they are getting closer to an end to this horrible, tragic event. I was here hit or miss last evening and see it stands about the same this am,

I will start a new thread for the day and post my thoughts there, just to get them out of my mind, if nothing else,

Beachpatty

[beachpatty]

here tis........

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=12835507#post12835507

[aproudmom]

If you had ever lost a child to murder you wouldn't be saying what you are saying. I've been there and Ron's behavior during the 911 call is normal behavior of a parent with a missing child...a parent who is scared to death that the end result will be horrible. You think it was remorse because this father was sobbing over the phone? I'm surprised that he could even talk at all. If he hadn't been sobbing or crying would you have thought something was wrong with that...and it meant that he was guilty? Of course he was sobbing! His little five yr old daughter was missing. I hope you never have to go through such a nightmare but if you do your whole attitude will change as far as Ron goes.

ITA do not Judge unless you have walked in someone elses shoes

[Zeus]

I just spoke to my b-i-l about this case and he said what often happens is one dog handler will get a positive response from his dog and other handlers will then misinterpret their own dog's signals at the same point being eager to solve a case. He also said that insofar as blood is concerned, blood when exposed to the air, decomposes and, apparently, human blood spilled from an accidental or intentional cause as opposed to menstrual blood is of a different composition. Cadaver dogs will, apparently, pick up on decomposing blood - be it from a mortal wound or a nicked finger. He also said his choice for tracking dogs are bloodhounds whereas, in his experience, german shepherds are better cadaver dogs. I guess though, that is personal preference. He has been training dogs for close to 15 years now.

That's because as a rule, Bloodhounds are trailing dogs and follow a scent on the ground whereas German Shepherds are Air Scent dogs.

[Aussie Gal]

We had a case here in Australia where a guy killed his wife and daughter by shooting them with a spear gun and he dismembered them and they landed up in the landfill. The wife's remains were found but the daughter never has been. Sorry, I don't recall the names.

JOHN MYLES SHARPE
his wife name was Anna and daughter Gracie. Very sad and shocking case!

[threesnugbugs]

Cadaver dogs are supposed to hit on human remains which have at least started the process of putrefaction, which is different than simple decomposition. Putrefaction in humans includes the breakdown of amines & produces cadaverine & putrescine.

Simple dried blood (even if degraded), such as would be found on bandages which were on a living person, would not be the sort of thing a cadaver dog should hit on.

I'm sure like everything else, errors can occur.

JMO

THis was discussed in many posts on page 7 and 8 of this thread, including reference articles.