Wednesday Feb 25, #1

[n/t]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:

[rosieposett]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:

Good Morning. Thanks for the new thread. Wouldn't it be wonderful if today was the day little Haleigh came home. Prayers for Haleigh.:rose:

[beachpatty]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty

[n/t]

After watching JVM last night, I was very concerned with the possibility that Ron is an informant and the person may have taken Haleigh out of revenge for something Ron may have done.

I went back and looked at some of the things that were said....yes maybe some haven't been confirmed by LE but reported nonetheless.

1) The 911 call where he's cussing and saying he will shoot the person when they're caught.

2) Some fight occured a day before or a few weeks before Haleigh went missing.

3) A gun was found in the ditch.

4) His plea to the abductor saying Haleigh is not property.

5) Telling Crystal's relatives (Chad and Marcus?) that he's 75% sure he knows who took Haleigh.

6) The man in black. His family is upset that this was released to the media.


All of the above makes me wonder if this is indeed a case of revenge and perhaps LE knows who the possible abductor is and that's why they're very tight lipped about this case.

I don't think Ron had anything to do with Haleigh's disappearance but I think he may feel very responsible and guilty to what may have happened to her.

All in my opinion based on what's been reported in the news and talk shows.

[n/t]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty


Happy Birthday! Wouldn't it be wonderful if Haleigh was found alive today. You would always remember her on your birthday. I hope your wish comes true.

[rosieposett]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty

For you beachpatty. :rose: Happy Birthday!

[CelticDawn]

After watching JVM last night, I was very concerned with the possibility that Ron is an informant and the person may have taken Haleigh out of revenge for something Ron may have done.

I went back and looked at some of the things that were said....yes maybe some haven't been confirmed by LE but reported nonetheless.

1) The 911 call where he's cussing and saying he will shoot the person when they're caught.

2) Some fight occured a day before or a few weeks before Haleigh went missing.

3) A gun was found in the ditch.

4) His plea to the abductor saying Haleigh is not property.

5) Telling Crystal's relatives (Chad and Marcus?) that he's 75% sure he knows who took Haleigh.

6) The man in black. His family is upset that this was released to the media.


All of the above makes me wonder if this is indeed a case of revenge and perhaps LE knows who the possible abductor is and that's why they're very tight lipped about this case.

I don't think Ron had anything to do with Haleigh's disappearance but I think he may feel very responsible and guilty to what may have happened to her.

All in my opinion based on what's been reported in the news and talk shows.

I believe that this is a revenge kidnapping, and I still hold out some hope that Haleigh is alive, but knowing the nature of those types, I have to be prepared for the worst.


I also believe that GERALDO, with his big MOUTH has put Ron and his family in danger by bringing up the informant issue. Other people may now target the family, and even with LE and FBI closely observing, these people have the means to get at them.

[CelticDawn]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty

:rose: Happy Birthday Beachpatty! :rose:

and many more

I believe that if Haleigh is being held by someone for revenge, then IF Ron has informed on said person, then LE will know, and hopefully they can be tracked down and Haleigh retrieved ALIVE.

[aproudmom]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:

Good Morning. Thanks for the new thread.

[n/t]

I believe that this is a revenge kidnapping, and I still hold out some hope that Haleigh is alive, but knowing the nature of those types, I have to be prepared for the worst.


I also believe that GERALDO, with his big MOUTH has put Ron and his family in danger by bringing up the informant issue. Other people may now target the family, and even with LE and FBI closely observing, these people have the means to get at them.


I think everyone in that community is afraid right now. Not sure if it has anything to with Geraldo opening up the can of worms regarding the informant issue or the reality that a kidnapper or possible pedophile is abducting children from their beds.

If I lived in that community, I'd be terrified too.

[Armchairdet]

:rose: Happy Birthday Beachpatty! :rose:

and many more

I believe that if Haleigh is being held by someone for revenge, then IF Ron has informed on said person, then LE will know, and hopefully they can be tracked down and Haleigh retrieved ALIVE.


But I wonder if someone who wanted revenge for someone informing on them would kidnap a child, and then just hold them. Hold them for what purpose? They would surely be caught if they had any demands, based on those demands, kwim?

I am afraid if she was kidnapped as revenge then they would not be keeping her alive. National attention of the case would make her quite the liability.

[CelticDawn]

But I wonder if someone who wanted revenge for someone informing on them would kidnap a child, and then just hold them. Hold them for what purpose? They would surely be caught if they had any demands, based on those demands, kwim?

I am afraid if she was kidnapped as revenge then they would not be keeping her alive. National attention of the case would make her quite the liability.

another take on this would be that IF this were the case, maybe Ron has some information that said person doesn't want divulged to LE or testified to in court or via a deposition. As long as Ron keeps his mouth shut, Haleigh stays alive.
...understand ...this is just a scenario

[CelticDawn]

But I wonder if someone who wanted revenge for someone informing on them would kidnap a child, and then just hold them. Hold them for what purpose? They would surely be caught if they had any demands, based on those demands, kwim?

I am afraid if she was kidnapped as revenge then they would not be keeping her alive. National attention of the case would make her quite the liability.

Another thing....tthe kidnapper would not have to make any demands...maybe he warned Ron earlier to keep quiet and took Haleigh for insurance...that way LE wouldnt have that piece of info to track him....but like I said ...IF LE had Ron on this hypothetical person....then they would have an idea of who would go for some insurance of Rons cooperation.

[aproudmom]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty

Happy Birthday be sure and make a wish today for this little doll to come home

[aproudmom]

I have a question has anyone seen misty around??seems we always seen her with Ron until all the rumors came out about her not being home at the time..maybe I have just missed her being there does anyone know if she is still camping out there?

Thanks if anyone knows

[CelticDawn]

I think everyone in that community is afraid right now. Not sure if it has anything to with Geraldo opening up the can of worms regarding the informant issue or the reality that a kidnapper or possible pedophile is abducting children from their beds.

If I lived in that community, I'd be terrified too.

I wouldnt let my kids out of my sight if I were in that community for sure....It is so sad, and the people there deserve security....physical and emotional.

There seems to be an overabundance of known molesters and sex offenders in that area....and that doesnt even begin to consider the unknown crimminals that may not have been caught yet.

[Regina.Lampert]

Good morning everyone. I thought Ms. Neves had a point last night, with Nancy Grace:

GRACE: The guy that he believes he saw, was his face covered?

NEVES: I -- I cannot -- that -- Nancy, that`s things that we (INAUDIBLE) with the detectives. I don`t feel like any of that information ever should have been released because I feel like you put my grandson in danger when you say, you know, that he can identify somebody or that he`s giving clues on somebody.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/24/ng.01.html

I agree with N/T, I think this is some sort of retribution for ronald's activities.

[Armchairdet]

Another thing....tthe kidnapper would not have to make any demands...maybe he warned Ron earlier to keep quiet and took Haleigh for insurance...that way LE wouldnt have that piece of info to track him....but like I said ...IF LE had Ron on this hypothetical person....then they would have an idea of who would go for some insurance of Rons cooperation.


I suppose so. I just can't figure it out in my mind. It doesn't mean it isn't true.

To me it would go like this. Ron knows who it is, so doesn't testify, or doesn't give LE info on said person. The person lets Haleigh go and she is found by a nice person and rushed back to her family.

Now I don't see Ron keeping his mouth shut. I mean yes he might be afraid to tell who it was, but somehow I don't know for sure, and neither would the kidnappers. Then they just moved from having some drug charges to much more serious charges.

IMO

[CelticDawn]

I suppose so. I just can't figure it out in my mind. It doesn't mean it isn't true.

To me it would go like this. Ron knows who it is, so doesn't testify, or doesn't give LE info on said person. The person lets Haleigh go and she is found by a nice person and rushed back to her family.

Now I don't see Ron keeping his mouth shut. I mean yes he might be afraid to tell who it was, but somehow I don't know for sure, and neither would the kidnappers. Then they just moved from having some drug charges to much more serious charges.IMO

I understand you.

Addressing what I bolded:...

Unless these were some heavy drug charges concerning some weight.....but youre right...I cant see someone like Ron being privy to any major movement of product like that.

[n/t]

I have a question has anyone seen misty around??seems we always seen her with Ron until all the rumors came out about her not being home at the time..maybe I have just missed her being there does anyone know if she is still camping out there?

Thanks if anyone knows


She's apparently back home with her family. We haven't seen her with Ron in a while.

[bluwaters]

Candles for Haleigh

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=halei

:rose::rose::rose:

[beachpatty]

There is a very lengthy court report on Crystal Gaynell Cummings, I believe she is Ron's sister, posted on another forum that I belong to. I am not sure if I can post it here or post a link to that forum, it is public court record. Any advise?
:confused:

Beachpatty

[Texas48]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

BeachpattyGood morning to ALL and Happy Birthday beachpatty. Getting older is OK..actually I try and look at each added year is not older just wiser..lol..Have a great day and I pray you get your wish for your present. I believe we ALL would be celebrating the return of this child and certainly would never forget YOUR b-day ever again.

[PBJMOM4]

After watching JVM last night, I was very concerned with the possibility that Ron is an informant and the person may have taken Haleigh out of revenge for something Ron may have done.

I went back and looked at some of the things that were said....yes maybe some haven't been confirmed by LE but reported nonetheless.

1) The 911 call where he's cussing and saying he will shoot the person when they're caught.

2) Some fight occured a day before or a few weeks before Haleigh went missing.

3) A gun was found in the ditch.

4) His plea to the abductor saying Haleigh is not property.

5) Telling Crystal's relatives (Chad and Marcus?) that he's 75% sure he knows who took Haleigh.

6) The man in black. His family is upset that this was released to the media.


All of the above makes me wonder if this is indeed a case of revenge and perhaps LE knows who the possible abductor is and that's why they're very tight lipped about this case.

I don't think Ron had anything to do with Haleigh's disappearance but I think he may feel very responsible and guilty to what may have happened to her.

All in my opinion based on what's been reported in the news and talk shows.

That is a possiblility.
I still wonder though How Misty didn't HEAR the "man in black."
IF, IF this was a revenge scenario, I don't think the "man in black" would have come in quietly, Did he know Misty wasn't home? Was Misty "out of the mobile home" definitely? What are the chances the "man in black" would even know that Misty would leave the home THAT particular night, if she left at all? Or did the Man in Black run into Misty in the mobile home and threaten her while he was there? Has it been confirmed by anyone OTHER than Geraldo that Misty was NOT HOME that night?
Too many questions still unanswered.

[Elvish2]

I wouldnt let my kids out of my sight if I were in that community for sure....It is so sad, and the people there deserve security....physical and emotional.

There seems to be an overabundance of known molesters and sex offenders in that area....and that doesnt even begin to consider the unknown crimminals that may not have been caught yet.


I remember some time ago, Dateline NBC, did one of their paedophile stings in Flagler County. The perv's showed up in droves! Obviously a lot more needs to be done!:cursing:

:rose: Haleigh

[Former Juror]

I could be very wrong, but this case does not look like a revenge kidnapping to me. I think Haleigh would have been found by now. I doubt kidnappers would want to hold on to a 5 year old for more than two weeks. I don't want to discuss what usually happens in retaliation crimes, but it is very unlikely that she would still be missing.

IMO, there are two possible scenarios at play. 1) Someone very close to the family hurt Haleigh. 2) A pedophile, knowing he had easy access to Haleigh, abducted her.

[playnice]

I wouldnt let my kids out of my sight if I were in that community for sure....It is so sad, and the people there deserve security....physical and emotional.

There seems to be an overabundance of known molesters and sex offenders in that area....and that doesnt even begin to consider the unknown crimminals that may not have been caught yet.

Le hasnt come out and made any statements to the community to make them feel any safer either.

[beachpatty]

Happy birthday!!!!! I post links all the time and so far so good! I found this:


http://www.lcso.org/asp/inmatepublic/mugshot_booking_detail.asp?bookingnumber=41732


can i copy and paste the content? without pasting a link to that forum then?
tia

[kitty1182]

can i copy and paste the content? without pasting a link to that forum then?
tia

Good morning..Happy Birthday..
I think you can post the link, do not copy and paste what is said on another board..

[Themis]

I have a question has anyone seen misty around??seems we always seen her with Ron until all the rumors came out about her not being home at the time..maybe I have just missed her being there does anyone know if she is still camping out there?

Thanks if anyone knows
According to Post #112 on the Links, updated Monday, 2-23-09, 4 p.m.:

The Ron Cummings family and Misty Croslin remain close.
Misty spends a lot of time in the family tent.

However, I saw a brief video that someone linked here of a woman with Misty and they were walking to a king cab pick up truck. The woman (who I assume is Misty's mother) was carrying what looked to be luggage; that is, Misty's gear.
Misty's wasn't carrying anything. Looked to me as if Misty was leaving. Misty was answering questions about her 'cousin,' although it seemed like the older woman was trying to move Misty along quickly.

Sorry, have no link, believe I saw it Monday or Tuesday. It should be in the Links section. [JMO]

[kitty1182]

Oh boy! I dont want to get you into any trouble! I have linked to other forums before and I didnt get into any trouble. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on this will come along soon and tell you what to do. Is the article or whatever it is trademarked?

Good morning mom...I hope beach saw my post above..OK to post a link, do not copy and paste anything that is said on a board though..

[beachpatty]

Oh boy! I dont want to get you into any trouble! I have linked to other forums before and I didnt get into any trouble. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on this will come along soon and tell you what to do. Is the article or whatever it is trademarked?

it's public court record

[Motomom]

it's public court record

You can link it. People have been linking the court records here. I wouldn't copy and paste anything..you can paraphrase though I think.

[JD1974]

Good Morning;

I'm running late, out of town yesterday and just now trying to catch up, hoping against hope I would read the post we are all waiting for but seeing this new thread gives me that answer:sad:

Today is my birthday, just older, no biggie, the only present that would be wonderful would be Haleigh found today, safe and alive!

Beachpatty

Happy Birthday! Today is my son's birthday also, he is 5 today. Same age as Haleigh and when I think of her being gone I look right at him, I have no idea what I would do if anything ever happened to him.

I haven't been on in a few days so I may have missed some things...is it true Jr told Crystal that a man in black took Haleigh? I can't imagine going through the pure torture this family is going through right now.

[JD1974]

That is a possiblility.
I still wonder though How Misty didn't HEAR the "man in black."
IF, IF this was a revenge scenario, I don't think the "man in black" would have come in quietly, Did he know Misty wasn't home? Was Misty "out of the mobile home" definitely? What are the chances the "man in black" would even know that Misty would leave the home THAT particular night, if she left at all? Or did the Man in Black run into Misty in the mobile home and threaten her while he was there? Has it been confirmed by anyone OTHER than Geraldo that Misty was NOT HOME that night?
Too many questions still unanswered.


This will sound really bizarre but what if Misty and the man in black are connected? She knew Ron liked younger girls and this was a set up from the get go, she is more afraid of the man in black than LE. So she tells Ron about his other child being neglected to get in good with him, waited for awhile so it wouldn't look so obvious and so Ron would trust her with the kids..then the kidnapper comes in.

I watch too many movies maybe, but truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

[crymeariver2006]

I could be very wrong, but this case does not look like a revenge kidnapping to me. I think Haleigh would have been found by now. I doubt kidnappers would want to hold on to a 5 year old for more than two weeks. I don't want to discuss what usually happens in retaliation crimes, but it is very unlikely that she would still be missing.

IMO, there are two possible scenarios at play. 1) Someone very close to the family hurt Haleigh. 2) A pedophile, knowing he had easy access to Haleigh, abducted her.


I tend to agree with you in that I don't believe this is some sort of retaliation crime.

I also don't believe Ron is an informant in any sense of the word.

[breeze53]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:


Morning all and prayer's up to Haleigh that she will soon be found safe and brought back home.

[msgatorslayer]

Morning, all.

With the Caylee Anthony story in the news for months, someone taking Haleigh for retaliation over something drug related Ron did would be stupid. They know it's going to become big time news.

Also, drug dealers don't want kids. What are they going to do with them? Even the dealers who took that one boy a few months ago rather quickly dropped him off, safely, after getting their point across.

[4truth]

I think everyone in that community is afraid right now. Not sure if it has anything to with Geraldo opening up the can of worms regarding the informant issue or the reality that a kidnapper or possible pedophile is abducting children from their beds.

If I lived in that community, I'd be terrified too.

ITA! GR created a mess with this interview. I think the interview was in very poor taste. An argumentive style of interview such as this is deplorable. Please let's just find Haleigh!

[crymeariver2006]

Morning, all.

With the Caylee Anthony story in the news for months, someone taking Haleigh for retaliation over something drug related Ron did would be stupid. They know it's going to become big time news.

Also, drug dealers don't want kids. What are they going to do with them? Even the dealers who took that one boy a few months ago rather quickly dropped him off, safely, after getting their point across.

Exactly. And in that case there was millions of dollars involved and IIRC, they didn't sneak into the house.

There is no Drug Dealer Daycare.

IMO, they would have left a "calling card" not taken a small child.

[aproudmom]

According to Post #112 on the Links, updated Monday, 2-23-09, 4 p.m.:

The Ron Cummings family and Misty Croslin remain close.
Misty spends a lot of time in the family tent.

However, I saw a brief video that someone linked here of a woman with Misty and they were walking to a king cab pick up truck. The woman (who I assume is Misty's mother) was carrying what looked to be luggage; that is, Misty's gear.
Misty's wasn't carrying anything. Looked to me as if Misty was leaving. Misty was answering questions about her 'cousin,' although it seemed like the older woman was trying to move Misty along quickly.

Sorry, have no link, believe I saw it Monday or Tuesday. It should be in the Links section. [JMO]


Thank you so much

[PBJMOM4]

This will sound really bizarre but what if Misty and the man in black are connected? She knew Ron liked younger girls and this was a set up from the get go, she is more afraid of the man in black than LE. So she tells Ron about his other child being neglected to get in good with him, waited for awhile so it wouldn't look so obvious and so Ron would trust her with the kids..then the kidnapper comes in.

I watch too many movies maybe, but truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

The only hard time I have with this is why would Jr. be left behind?
If Misty was involved and worried for the kid safety, why take one child and not the other.

[crymeariver2006]

ITA! GR created a mess with this interview. I think the interview was in very poor taste. An argumentive style of interview such as this is deplorable. Please let's just find Haleigh!

I don't think Geraldo "created" the mess. He may have added to it, but there was a mess long before Haleigh ever went missing.

JMO

[msgatorslayer]

Exactly. And in that case there was millions of dollars involved and IIRC, they didn't sneak into the house.

There is no Drug Dealer Daycare.

IMO, they would have left a "calling card" not taken a small child.

Right. What drug dealer wants to babysit a crying, scared child who wants its mommy and daddy back!!!! Shoot, give me 2 adults to hold and I'll give the one child back, lol.

Ron doesn't look to be rolling in high dollar. He could be a low level, get his friend a bag of weed type of guy. But if he was making substantial money dealing something, he wouldn't be working a grave yard shift as a cover, IMO.

[VC2]

Another thing....tthe kidnapper would not have to make any demands...maybe he warned Ron earlier to keep quiet and took Haleigh for insurance...that way LE wouldnt have that piece of info to track him....but like I said ...IF LE had Ron on this hypothetical person....then they would have an idea of who would go for some insurance of Rons cooperation.

I don't buy it. Druggies don't want to be bothered with kids, for any reason! It isnt as if you can hide them like a necklace, someone would see her and turn them in. I haven't heard of any case of regular run of the mill dealers or users that would steal a baby and keep it. Insane. If they wanted to warn him they would kill her and let her be found, bc then he stays quiet for juniors case. Still not going to happen though. Even countries with organized crime and where kidnappings are a norm like Italy don't kidnap children.

Haleigh imo is dead, after being raped and murdered by a predator

[JD1974]

The only hard time I have with this is why would Jr. be left behind?
If Misty was involved and worried for the kid safety, why take one child and not the other.



Because they are making a statment to Ron, they only have to take one. I disagree with the drug dealers not wanting to take kids, the thing is drugs are a huge business, if Ron made someone mad..some of those people would kill their own grandmothers (and have) as retaliation or because they cut off their supply ie: not giving them money, turning them in. I am not sure I buy my own theory, just speculating because I have no idea where she is or what happened to her.

[CelticDawn]

I don't buy it. Druggies don't want to be bothered with kids, for any reason! It isnt as if you can hide them like a necklace, someone would see her and turn them in. I haven't heard of any case of regular run of the mill dealers or users that would steal a baby and keep it. Insane. If they wanted to warn him they would kill her and let her be found, bc then he stays quiet for juniors case. Still not going to happen though. Even countries with organized crime and where kidnappings are a norm like Italy don't kidnap children.

Haleigh imo is dead, after being raped and murdered by a predator

I am sorry to say that but you are probably right


....but in the game ....not the street level tyoes.....things happen like that more than wed like to believe....What I was throwing out there was a scenario very similar to something that actually happened between LA and TX a few years ago with a "businessman"/dealer/money launderer and an informants family.
...and they do have hiding places....they dont carry the 'hostages" around to be seen.

[Armchairdet]

Because they are making a statment to Ron, they only have to take one. I disagree with the drug dealers not wanting to take kids, the thing is drugs are a huge business, if Ron made someone mad..some of those people would kill their own grandmothers (and have) as retaliation or because they cut off their supply ie: not giving them money, turning them in. I am not sure I buy my own theory, just speculating because I have no idea where she is or what happened to her.

That could explain why they were not afraid to enter the home. I mean anyone that knows Ron probably knows he has a gun and would probably be afraid that even Misty may use it if she woke up. Unless, she was expecting them. Also there was an attempt earlier to steal the gun iirc. That is interesting, perhaps someone was sent to make sure there wasn't a gun there.

Interesting theory.

[CelticDawn]

That could explain why they were not afraid to enter the home. I mean anyone that knows Ron probably knows he has a gun and would probably be afraid that even Misty may use it if she woke up. Unless, she was expecting them. Also there was an attempt earlier to steal the gun iirc. That is interesting, perhaps someone was sent to make sure there wasn't a gun there.

Interesting theory.
I just cant see Misty being able to handle herself with a gun....Any experienced thug could outsmart her and get the drop on her...

Furthermore...I believe somebody knows what happened and this was carefully<as far as thugs and undesirables go> planned out....Misty may have been lured away by something...or involved be it inadvertantly or not.

[KKKKKKatie]

another take on this would be that IF this were the case, maybe Ron has some information that said person doesn't want divulged to LE or testified to in court or via a deposition. As long as Ron keeps his mouth shut, Haleigh stays alive.
...understand ...this is just a scenario

But IMO if they wanted to shut him up they would have taken/killed Ron :shrug:

[Armchairdet]

But IMO if they wanted to shut him up they would have taken/killed Ron :shrug:

Seems a lot easier. Also right or wrong it probably would have been a small story in the local or state news, and then just gone away. I mean LE would have worked on the case, but the whole country would not be watching. IMO

[KKKKKKatie]

Seems a lot easier. Also right or wrong it probably would have been a small story in the local or state news, and then just gone away. I mean LE would have worked on the case, but the whole country would not be watching. IMO

I agree. I just don't see this scenario at all.....but then I've been wrong before :laugh:

[playnice]

May today be the day that baby is brought home safe so the next time I see that grandma on tv she has tears of joy instead of tears because her heart is being ripped out of her.

[CelticDawn]

But IMO if they wanted to shut him up they would have taken/killed Ron :shrug:



It would have been a lot easier....However circumstances may have scared them off...

what I would say wouldnt fit with this is ...in that world....why not take the son?...It seems he would have been easier to deal with...

[Armchairdet]

I agree. I just don't see this scenario at all.....but then I've been wrong before :laugh:

I was trying to go over the scenario. I pictured one guy saying, 'Ok we can get this girl to hook up with Cummings. She will move in, gain his trust, then while he is at work one night let us in and we will take one of the children so he knows to be quiet.' Then I picture the other guy saying, 'Or we could just get rid of Ron'.

Although I suppose anything is possible. The one scenario has too many people knowing too much. It is not a good conspiracy if too many people know. Someone will talk if only to get the heat off of them.

[CelticDawn]

Seems a lot easier. Also right or wrong it probably would have been a small story in the local or state news, and then just gone away. I mean LE would have worked on the case, but the whole country would not be watching. IMO

It would have been what some call a "public service killing"....especially if he was an informant...which would by definition suggest that he was or had been dirty at some point in his crimminal career.

[Elle]

another take on this would be that IF this were the case, maybe Ron has some information that said person doesn't want divulged to LE or testified to in court or via a deposition. As long as Ron keeps his mouth shut, Haleigh stays alive.
...understand ...this is just a scenario

Why would they take the older child that would be more likely able to identify them?
I think whoever took Kaleigh, did so for Kaleigh, and not to get back at Ron.

I believe she was taken by a SO and killed shortly thereafter.

[CelticDawn]

I was trying to go over the scenario. I pictured one guy saying, 'Ok we can get this girl to hook up with Cummings. She will move in, gain his trust, then while he is at work one night let us in and we will take one of the children so he knows to be quiet.' Then I picture the other guy saying, 'Or we could just get rid of Ron'.

Although I suppose anything is possible. The one scenario has too many people knowing too much. It is not a good conspiracy if too many people know. Someone will talk if only to get the heat off of them.

No experienced thug would have used Misty....Her personality and level of streetwise just doesnt lend itself to having her as an efficient accomplice....and besides....If something went wrong...she would be a BIG liability....would sing like a bird!!!

[CelticDawn]

Why would they take the older child that would be more likely able to identify them?
I think whoever took Kaleigh, did so for Kaleigh, and not to get back at Ron.

I believe she was taken by a SO and killed shortly thereafter.

If it is street level dealers....they arent exactly brain trusts.....I said before...if they were going to take one of the children...why not the son....it wouldve been easier all the way around.....and if they were going to take a hostage....why not both kids and stash them somewhere???....

I know...Im grasping at ways this kid could still be alive mostly!!!

I hope she is...but believe she isnt.

[KKKKKKatie]

I was trying to go over the scenario. I pictured one guy saying, 'Ok we can get this girl to hook up with Cummings. She will move in, gain his trust, then while he is at work one night let us in and we will take one of the children so he knows to be quiet.' Then I picture the other guy saying, 'Or we could just get rid of Ron'.

Although I suppose anything is possible. The one scenario has too many people knowing too much. It is not a good conspiracy if too many people know. Someone will talk if only to get the heat off of them.

ITA Armchair....and IMO there is no way that Misty could hold up against LE for very long. If there was something I think she would have broken a week ago

[CelticDawn]

ITA Armchair....and IMO there is no way that Misty could hold up against LE for very long. If there was something I think she would have broken a week ago

I cant see them using Misty....She is a liability...but ai can see a scenario where she was lured out of the house somehow...and now shes afraid to admit it.

[KKKKKKatie]

I cant see them using Misty....She is a liability...but ai can see a scenario where she was lured out of the house somehow...and now shes afraid to admit it.

that could be....but I still think LE would have gotten to her by now. I just don't think she is that strong IMO

[CelticDawn]

You all know??...Theyve looked at the area sex offenders....but have they looked at oldetr typical mamas boys....loners that are kind of outcasts??....hiding places on their properties?....I know they need warrants for some searches...but those types have been known to have some dirty little secrets.....Maybe they need to bring in a profiler or two.

[FrankieBones1]

Good Morning,

Hoping today is the day they find Haleigh. :rose:
And a Good Morning to you, too.
I hope the two camps will quit slamming each other and come together for Haleigh.

I thought it was quite interesting to find out that Ron was accused of several drug crimes but never did time for any of it. Maybe Geraldo was right...Maybe he is an informant. Even so, would someone actually take a child as revenge?

[CelticDawn]

Neighbor Heard Noises The Night Haleigh Vanished
http://rochesterpopulist.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/ilyssa-trussel-talks-to-haleighs-neighbor-who-heard-noises-the-night-she-vanished/


I just don't know what to think! Sometimes I think we are all "overthinking" this!



I know that I am overthinking this....just living and working around LE makes all kinds of things go through my head.....Sadly some of it turns out to be true...

[crymeariver2006]

Neighbor Heard Noises The Night Haleigh Vanished
http://rochesterpopulist.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/ilyssa-trussel-talks-to-haleighs-neighbor-who-heard-noises-the-night-she-vanished/


I just don't know what to think! Sometimes I think we are all "overthinking" this!


But Misty doesn't hear a thing.

:confused:

[KKKKKKatie]

Neighbor Heard Noises The Night Haleigh Vanished
http://rochesterpopulist.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/ilyssa-trussel-talks-to-haleighs-neighbor-who-heard-noises-the-night-she-vanished/


I just don't know what to think! Sometimes I think we are all "overthinking" this!

Just listened.....didn't he make it sound like the noise her heard was from them looking for Haleigh??? That is how I heard it :confused:

[CelticDawn]

But Misty doesn't hear a thing.

:confused:

If there really were noises...then that would lean toward the theory that Misty was away from the trailer/house at the time of the abduction...for whatever reason

[Armchairdet]

But Misty doesn't hear a thing.

:confused:


When I listened to the link, I took it to mean that the neighbor woke up to the noise created after Haleigh was already gone. Perhaps the noise of Ron and Misty, the police, whatever. But he mentions waking going outside and then finding that the child was missing.

But I could be wrong.

[Armchairdet]

Just listened.....didn't he make it sound like the noise her heard was from them looking for Haleigh??? That is how I heard it :confused:

ITA, that is how I heard it.

[playnice]

My feelings from the beginning have been SO. It concerns me about this Chad Reynolds missing shortly before Haleigh and committed previous crimes in that county.
I wouldnt rule out there being 2 people involved. Haleighs scent was tracked to the RR tracks.
I wonder if the SO they arrested had any connection to Chad, maybe in jail and became friends.
I cant understand why this man would go into the woods close to Haleighs house unless he was looking for something. If his gps proved he wasnt there that night she went missing maybe he knows who did take her.
I feel it could be someone absconded with a connection to one already living there.

[KKKKKKatie]

ITA, that is how I heard it.

Another misleading Headline! :rolleyes:

[Elle]

I know that I am overthinking this....just living and working around LE makes all kinds of things go through my head.....Sadly some of it turns out to be true...

I am the same way. So many thoughts going through my head. When I watched the video of the next door neighbor, the first thought that went through my head was I hope they have thoroughly checked ALL the neighbors. I hate being so negative, but sometimes the answers are simple and right there under thier noses.
I know there are many listed SO, but for every SO, there is a first time offense, and there are also the ones who have never been caught. Then there are those who traffic for SO's, providing victims for them.

imo, moo

[crymeariver2006]

ITA, that is how I heard it.

And you are both probably right.

[CelticDawn]

When I listened to the link, I took it to mean that the neighbor woke up to the noise created after Haleigh was already gone. Perhaps the noise of Ron and Misty, the police, whatever. But he mentions waking going outside and then finding that the child was missing.

But I could be wrong.

I listened again...and yeah....but why would this be something relevant if the noise was after the fact?....the media makes thing s so confusing....If noise or commotion was before she was discovered missing, then it would but a timestamp on the abduction possibly.

[trich]

Personally I think it is a pedophile that took Haleigh and it was only possible to take one child not two.
I don't think it is any more complicated then that.
I pray they find her safe and sooner rather then later.
But it is not looking good IMO

[CelticDawn]

I am the same way. So many thoughts going through my head. When I watched the video of the next door neighbor, the first thought that went through my head was I hope they have thoroughly checked ALL the neighbors. I hate being so negative, but sometimes the answers are simple and right there under thier noses.
I know there are many listed SO, but for every SO, there is a first time offense, and there are also the ones who have never been caught. Then there are those who traffic for SO's, providing victims for them.

imo, moo



Just last week there was an FBI roundup of pimps who traffic in child prostitutes....I am NOT saying Hayleigh was taken for this....but there are all kinds of things going on out there...human trafficking for many reasons.

[JD1974]

ITA Armchair....and IMO there is no way that Misty could hold up against LE for very long. If there was something I think she would have broken a week ago

I have been thinking about that...just because she doesn't seem very book smart doesn't mean she isn't VERY street smart.

[CelticDawn]

I have been thinking about that...just because she doesn't seem very book smart doesn't mean she isn't VERY street smart.

she just doesnt seem very street smart....considering how they lived and her demeanor

[JD1974]

she just doesnt seem very street smart....considering how they lived and her demeanor



How they live really doesn't matter, by street smart I mean dealing with the cops either through relatives or first hand. When you have someone who is involved with LE in either case they learn what to say/not say.

ETA All she has to do is stick to her story of I was asleep, that answers ALL questions because how can she have knowledge of anything if she was sleeping?

[KKKKKKatie]

I have been thinking about that...just because she doesn't seem very book smart doesn't mean she isn't VERY street smart.

Could be true JD....but LE is pretty good...I just don't see her alone in a room with them for hours and not breaking. But I could be very wrong....just my impression

[beachpatty]

Just listened.....didn't he make it sound like the noise her heard was from them looking for Haleigh??? That is how I heard it :confused:


me too but the title made it sound the other way?

[Regina.Lampert]

How they live really doesn't matter, by street smart I mean dealing with the cops either through relatives or first hand. When you have someone who is involved with LE in either case they learn what to say/not say.

ETA All she has to do is stick to her story of I was asleep, that answers ALL questions because how can she have knowledge of anything if she was sleeping?

Claiming to be asleep is one thing, but imo misty has been Helen Keller like in not hearing a thing, not seeing a thing. The wrong information about the pink shirt is still disturbing to me.

If Jr. was awakened by the figure in black, why wasn't misty? Did Jr. try to wake misty? Was misty even there?

[CelticDawn]

How they live really doesn't matter, by street smart I mean dealing with the cops either through relatives or first hand. When you have someone who is involved with LE in either case they learn what to say/not say.

ETA All she has to do is stick to her story of I was asleep, that answers ALL questions because how can she have knowledge of anything if she was sleeping?

Maybe.....that is all to be seen ...


What do you make of her apparent absence as of late?....If she and Ron were trying to hide something...<mainly Ron...and not necessarily the actual abduction>...it seems that Ron would want to keep her close so as to coach her and to keep an eye on her. What do you think is going on there/..Family taking her back for her protection? A rift between her and Ron?? Convenience alone??

[crymeariver2006]

I seems like the noise that woke this guy up was after the 911 call.

JMO

Would that mean that he didn't hear Misty and/or Ron yelling outside for Haleigh or Misty calling for her prior to Ron's arrival at the house?

Would it also mean that Misty didn't knock on one door seeking help prior to Ron's arrival at the house?

[crymeariver2006]

How they live really doesn't matter, by street smart I mean dealing with the cops either through relatives or first hand. When you have someone who is involved with LE in either case they learn what to say/not say.

ETA All she has to do is stick to her story of I was asleep, that answers ALL questions because how can she have knowledge of anything if she was sleeping?

That, and stick to the story that the door was locked.

(Never mind that she says on Greta that she opens the back door to take out garbage and nevermind that she admits on another program that she was taking out garbage that night.... :wink:)

[Speedy30]

I could be very wrong, but this case does not look like a revenge kidnapping to me. I think Haleigh would have been found by now. I doubt kidnappers would want to hold on to a 5 year old for more than two weeks. I don't want to discuss what usually happens in retaliation crimes, but it is very unlikely that she would still be missing.

IMO, there are two possible scenarios at play. 1) Someone very close to the family hurt Haleigh. 2) A pedophile, knowing he had easy access to Haleigh, abducted her.


Or, she woke up and couldnt find Misty and wandered outside and was eaten by a gator near the water. Which is horrible to think about.

jmo

[TaraCrazyHair]

This article states it was "somebody in black" not necessarily a man?

http://www.wesh.com/news/18784308/detail.html

[CelticDawn]

That, and stick to the story that the door was locked.

(Never mind that she says on Greta that she opens the back door to take out garbage and nevermind that she admits on another program that she was taking out garbage that night.... :wink:)

....and all it would take for her to forget to actually lock the door would be a distraction by one of the kids....or a phone ringing....etc....but yet she was asleep...and she knows she locked the door....go figure....

[crymeariver2006]

....and all it would take for her to forget to actually lock the door would be a distraction by one of the kids....or a phone ringing....etc....but yet she was asleep...and she knows she locked the door....go figure....


Or a distraction of getting the blanket out of the dryer (which is right next to the back door) and putting the blanket on Haleigh - at which point Misty says she laid down "next to her".

IMO, she forgot all about that door.

[march27]

Or, she woke up and couldnt find Misty and wandered outside and was eaten by a gator near the water. Which is horrible to think about.

jmo


Thats what I'm thinking. Misty was out, Haleigh woke up went to look for her, and either drowned or was eaten by gator. I live in Florida, right on a river and whenever we go canoeing we spot gators everywhere.

[march27]

This article states it was "somebody in black" not necessarily a man?

http://www.wesh.com/news/18784308/detail.html



I think the man in black story needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You would not believe the stories my five year old tells. Not to say shes never truthful, but there have been numerous times she has had me completely believing something only to find out there was no truth whatsoever to the story.

[Armchairdet]

Or a distraction of getting the blanket out of the dryer (which is right next to the back door) and putting the blanket on Haleigh - at which point Misty says she laid down "next to her".

IMO, she forgot all about that door.

I think she may have opened the door and forgot as well. I mean, on any other night it would have been no big deal probably. Even if she is smart, mature, and responsible, things happen like leaving a door open.

I consider myself of at least average intelligence, and mature. I am usually very responsible.

But just last week, I let the dog out in the back yard. Then I went on to finish whatever I was doing. About 20 minutes later I hear a scratch at the back door. Oops. I mean no big deal, other than it was kind of cool out. Not super cold being Florida, during the day. But she was not amused. My point is, there is nothing wrong with making mistakes. But if a person did make a mistake, the sooner they fess up, the sooner LE can look into other things. For instance not looking at who may have a master key, if the lock or door were not broken.

IMO

[CelticDawn]

Thats what I'm thinking. Misty was out, Haleigh woke up went to look for her, and either drowned or was eaten by gator. I live in Florida, right on a river and whenever we go canoeing we spot gators everywhere.

but it keeps being brought up that Hayleigh was afraid of the dark. If that were the case....to the extreme that they describe....she would have stayed in bed....got under her blanket and been scared stiff....not gone wandering.


are the alligators really as big there as in LA???? ...and as brazen???...

[CC I See]

Good morning everyone. I thought Ms. Neves had a point last night, with Nancy Grace:

GRACE: The guy that he believes he saw, was his face covered?

NEVES: I -- I cannot -- that -- Nancy, that`s things that we (INAUDIBLE) with the detectives. I don`t feel like any of that information ever should have been released because I feel like you put my grandson in danger when you say, you know, that he can identify somebody or that he`s giving clues on somebody.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/24/ng.01.html

I agree with N/T, I think this is some sort of retribution for ronald's activities.

...... and it could be the person who is the maddest at him for some of his indiscretions has taken it out on his daughter. Misty who for whatever reason took her revenge that night and then ask a family member to help her clean up. Maybe she was jealous and couldn't take it any more and when the opportunity came up she took advantage of it.

[crymeariver2006]

I think she may have opened the door and forgot as well. I mean, on any other night it would have been no big deal probably. Even if she is smart, mature, and responsible, things happen like leaving a door open.

I consider myself of at least average intelligence, and mature. I am usually very responsible.

But just last week, I let the dog out in the back yard. Then I went on to finish whatever I was doing. About 20 minutes later I hear a scratch at the back door. Oops. I mean no big deal, other than it was kind of cool out. Not super cold being Florida, during the day. But she was not amused. My point is, there is nothing wrong with making mistakes. But if a person did make a mistake, the sooner they fess up, the sooner LE can look into other things. For instance not looking at who may have a master key, if the lock or door were not broken.

IMO

Exactly, the sooner something like that is admitted the sooner other possibilities can be narrowed down and/or eliminated.

But, IMO, she can't admit this and have Ron find out about it unless she's in protective custody. (Provided, of course, the "kidnapper" came in thru an unlocked and unclosed door or Haleigh wandered out thru same said door.

[march27]

but it keeps being brought up that Hayleigh was afraid of the dark. If that were the case....to the extreme that they describe....she would have stayed in bed....got under her blanket and been scared stiff....not gone wandering.


are the alligators really as big there as in LA???? ...and as brazen???...

I know but to me being afraid of the dark means she went looking for an adult. My daughter is terrified of the dark and when she wakes up in the middle of the night she comes looking for us for comfort, she doesnt stay in bed. She actually runs out of her room as quickly as possible, half asleep. Also, IMO, the gators are big, scary too!

[crymeariver2006]

but it keeps being brought up that Hayleigh was afraid of the dark. If that were the case....to the extreme that they describe....she would have stayed in bed....got under her blanket and been scared stiff....not gone wandering.


are the alligators really as big there as in LA???? ...and as brazen???...

The family keeps saying she was scared of the dark and wouldn't wander off and that she was terrified of water.

The landlord says that Haleigh used to come over in her yard all the time. There are photos with Haleigh surrounded by water.

JMO

[JD1974]

Claiming to be asleep is one thing, but imo misty has been Helen Keller like in not hearing a thing, not seeing a thing. The wrong information about the pink shirt is still disturbing to me.

If Jr. was awakened by the figure in black, why wasn't misty? Did Jr. try to wake misty? Was misty even there?


Exactly! All she has to claim is she didn't see, hear anything because she was asleep at the time. How much farther can LE question someone and how far would they get with that someone claiming they were asleep? It wouldn't be hard to remember "I was asleep" "I didn't hear anything because I was asleep" keep repeating it over and over to LE.

[Mandysmom]

Personally I think it is a pedophile that took Haleigh and it was only possible to take one child not two.
I don't think it is any more complicated then that.
I pray they find her safe and sooner rather then later.
But it is not looking good IMO

ITA with you. None of this other stuff is making sense.

[JD1974]

That, and stick to the story that the door was locked.

(Never mind that she says on Greta that she opens the back door to take out garbage and nevermind that she admits on another program that she was taking out garbage that night.... :wink:)


It isn't hard to keep up the same line if it is something easy like being asleep at the time something happened. All you have to do is keep repeating it over and over, it answers all questions about that night...

IE: Did Haleigh wake up that night..answer I don't know I was asleep.
That answer can be used for everything! The door locked thing too, all you have to do is repeat it over and over to LE.

[march27]

Does anyone know if theres a PC today?

[?noanswer]

But Misty doesn't hear a thing.

:confused:

Did you listen to the video? That title is misleading. The noises the neighbor heard were after LE arrived. He went on to say he didn't hear anything earlier. JMO

[crymeariver2006]

It isn't hard to keep up the same line if it is something easy like being asleep at the time something happened. All you have to do is keep repeating it over and over, it answers all questions about that night...

IE: Did Haleigh wake up that night..answer I don't know I was asleep.
That answer can be used for everything! The door locked thing too, all you have to do is repeat it over and over to LE.


"The door was locked"

"It stays locked"

"We never use that door"

[Armchairdet]

"The door was locked"

"It stays locked"

"We never use that door"



But if it stays locked, and you never use it, why check it? IMO

I know I know, but still it seemed a little odd. Also, was the front door locked? Maybe they came in the front, and left out the back.

[march27]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=132134&catid=3

I really dont like the timing of this. I wonder what the moms boyfriend plays in all of this.

[crymeariver2006]

But if it stays locked, and you never use it, why check it? IMO

I know I know, but still it seemed a little odd. Also, was the front door locked? Maybe they came in the front, and left out the back.

I don't know, but why prop the back door when the front two screen doors stand wide open in every photograph we've seen? If "they" entered the front why even bother with the back door at all?

[Armchairdet]

I don't know, but why prop the back door when the front two screen doors stand wide open in every photograph we've seen? If "they" entered the front why even bother with the back door at all?

Perhaps they saw someone pull up close by the front. Heck, I don't know. I am not even saying I believe they did use the front. I am just as confused as some other people probably might be. IMO

[Motomom]

....and all it would take for her to forget to actually lock the door would be a distraction by one of the kids....or a phone ringing....etc....but yet she was asleep...and she knows she locked the door....go figure....

What bugs me about being adamant about the door is this. How many times has anyone here left their house only to turn around to go double check whether they have locked the door, or left their curling iron on, the stove etc etc. Sometimes I know, because I take note in my head when I did it..but other times I think I did something and ends up that I didn't. So in a case like this, it would weigh on my mind, I'd second guess myself whether I had that door locked or not. I mean, unless someone came in from the front or a window, which is possible, then going out the back door, would explain that it was locked..but if that back door was locked..there was supposedly no signs of forced entry..it couldn't have been locked. imo

[march27]

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/columnists/mark_woods/2009-02-25/story/geraldo_faces_his_nightmare

Nice read... I'm glad someones saying what I'm thinking

[CelticDawn]

The family keeps saying she was scared of the dark and wouldn't wander off and that she was terrified of water.

The landlord says that Haleigh used to come over in her yard all the time. There are photos with Haleigh surrounded by water.

JMO
More contradictions....Surrounded by water yet appearing at ease..

I suppose you could take the afraid of the dark issue two ways.....that she would wake afraid and seek an adult...or that she would dig in under the covers and wait....

wandering around the house and wandering all the way outside are twodifferent things though....And IMO if they made it a practice of having doors locked,...the child would know that.....What would make her go outside???...Did she possibly hear familiar voices outside??...<just a scenario>

[Motomom]

I really dont like the timing of this. I wonder what the moms boyfriend plays in all of this.

I wondered the same thing March. Odd that it happened days after this court filing. Why wasn't Crystal arrested before hand for non payment of child support? They need to get the deadbeat parents before their arrears reaches into the thousands IMO. Once it gets up there, its that much harder to pay it. I don't think Crystal did anything though..just another part to the story.

[Politigal]

I really dont like the timing of this. I wonder what the moms boyfriend plays in all of this.

The timing *is* very troubling on this child support issue....

Perhaps the mom is more involved with this disappearance than I thought.

[crymeariver2006]

Thanks, momofamarine! So "Mom" is behind in child support, has a hearing coming up and she doesn't want to discuss it. I bet not!! :(
But she will discuss ALL of Ron's dirty laundry-to Geraldo! Go figure!

Were we ever able to get a look at the court documents? Where it gave the amount of the owed child support?

I may have missed them but if anybody has the link, TIA for posting it again!

[Motomom]

Were we ever able to get a look at the court documents? Where it gave the amount of the owed child support?

I may have missed them but if anybody has the link, TIA for posting it again!

I'm not sure if I saw a court doc or just a link and I'm sorry, I don't have it. IIRC she owed 4100 plus.. I remember the 41. She is suppose to pay around 340 a month.

[?noanswer]

I'm not sure if I saw a court doc or just a link and I'm sorry, I don't have it. IIRC she owed 4100 plus.. I remember the 41. She is suppose to pay around 340 a month.

This is awful to say, but if Haleigh is not found, guess that amount would be lowered. Has anyone seen any information where her youngest daughter is and who is taking care of her? JMO

[playnice]

Pet peeve. Parents that cant support the kids they have but they go pop out more with someone else.

[beachpatty]

Were we ever able to get a look at the court documents? Where it gave the amount of the owed child support?

I may have missed them but if anybody has the link, TIA for posting it again!


$4,100.00 I believe

[Speedy30]

I know but to me being afraid of the dark means she went looking for an adult. My daughter is terrified of the dark and when she wakes up in the middle of the night she comes looking for us for comfort, she doesnt stay in bed. She actually runs out of her room as quickly as possible, half asleep. Also, IMO, the gators are big, scary too!

She has health problems, maybe she woke up sick, or disorientated, maybe she thought Misty was outside because the door was open and was scared and got lost. I hate to think she was eaten but, the terrifying alternative of some sex offender sneaking in and grabbing her I think is worse.

I just hope she is found.

[Speedy30]

This timing is REALLY curious.

I think we all agree that men kill over not wanting to pay child support and can remember cases where that happened. Men killing pregnant girlfriends or babies, right around the time of their court appearance.

Crystal has a fiance. How upset was he that she owed $4100 and then $323 per month that would take away from his own family with her?

*bing, lightbulbs are beginning to go off*

That would explain why the door was propped open. Whoever had Haleigh was coming back for Junior and that's when Misty woke up and thwarted it, by being awake and aware.

Does that sound possible to anyone? That somehow Crystal's fiance might be involved? It's just really odd that Ronald was notified of the court hearing the day before Haleigh disappeared. Was Crystal also notified then?

But why just grab Haleigh, and not Junior, she still has to pay for him.

[caphill]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=132134&catid=3


Thank you for the link. It was interesting that the State filed the contempt order. Crystal hasn't paid her court ordered support in more than a year.

Crystal's fiance also has children from a previous marraige. If he had money going out for support to his 1st family, a new baby with Crystal and she had support obligations to JR and Haleigh, that would be a heavy financial burden.

If I am not mistaken, Crystal could lost her visitation rights for this not payment of support.What other 'Dead beat" parent laws are in effect in Fla. Could she be jailed for the contempt order?

[Peaches]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=132134&catid=3



HaLeigh's bio mother can not pay child support so that her children can have things they need - BUT during the holidays she purchased a house.........................

What is wrong with this picture?


New House VS Food for your babies ???????????? should be a no brainer

[crymeariver2006]

This timing is REALLY curious.

I think we all agree that men kill over not wanting to pay child support and can remember cases where that happened. Men killing pregnant girlfriends or babies, right around the time of their court appearance.

Crystal has a fiance. How upset was he that she owed $4100 and then $323 per month that would take away from his own family with her?

*bing, lightbulbs are beginning to go off*

That would explain why the door was propped open. Whoever had Haleigh was coming back for Junior and that's when Misty woke up and thwarted it, by being awake and aware.

Does that sound possible to anyone? That somehow Crystal's fiance might be involved? It's just really odd that Ronald was notified of the court hearing the day before Haleigh disappeared. Was Crystal also notified then?

If Misty woke up and "thwarted" anything, she would know who it was she was "thwarting". If the person made it outside with Haleigh, how would they know Misty was up and/or awake so they couldn't come back in?

I just don't think anybody in these families could hide a child for this long. They talk too much.

JMO

[Armchairdet]

This timing is REALLY curious.

I think we all agree that men kill over not wanting to pay child support and can remember cases where that happened. Men killing pregnant girlfriends or babies, right around the time of their court appearance.

Crystal has a fiance. How upset was he that she owed $4100 and then $323 per month that would take away from his own family with her?

*bing, lightbulbs are beginning to go off*

That would explain why the door was propped open. Whoever had Haleigh was coming back for Junior and that's when Misty woke up and thwarted it, by being awake and aware.

Does that sound possible to anyone? That somehow Crystal's fiance might be involved? It's just really odd that Ronald was notified of the court hearing the day before Haleigh disappeared. Was Crystal also notified then?


Sounds possible to me. How about this for one more possibility. At some point Crystal has a key to the back door. To drop the kids off, pick them up, whatever. Maybe she only needed the key for something for that day. I don't know, just a thought. Anyway, she runs off to wherever and gets an extra key made. Maybe she doesn't have any terrible motive at the time. Just does it just in case. Returns the original key, nobody is the wiser.

[KKKKKKatie]

HaLeigh's bio mother can not pay child support so that her children can have things they need - BUT during the holidays she purchased a house.........................

What is wrong with this picture?


New House VS Food for your babies ???????????? should be a no brainer

I'm wondering if the media has this wrong....again. How could she qualify for a house?

I am thinking it is "they" bought a house....she and her fiancée bought a house???

[?noanswer]

Were we ever able to get a look at the court documents? Where it gave the amount of the owed child support?

I may have missed them but if anybody has the link, TIA for posting it again!

I don't remember seeing an amount, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Also lots of poster thought Ron had filed the documents and others thought Crystal. Turns out neither of them filed it. I wonder if the court had been paying the child support and Crystal was supposed to reimburse them. I don't know how that works. Would the court stop paying if the person that was supposed to be paying it to them was not remitting the funds or do they act as an go between and just forward what the person remitted? JMO

[crymeariver2006]

I am searching, crymeariver!

Oh don't worry about it! I remember seeing two links in a post. One was titled "Dismissal". That's probably where it is and if people say they saw the amount, that's enough for me.

I just remember the other day nobody was able to locate what the "Contempt of Court" was all about and it was thought that due to the case, it was taken offline.

[crymeariver2006]

I don't remember seeing an amount, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Also lots of poster thought Ron had filed the documents and others thought Crysal. Turns out neither of them filed it. I wonder if the court had been paying the child support and Crystal was supposed to reimburse them. I don't know how that works. Would the court stop paying if the person that was supposed to be paying it to them was not remitting the funds or do they act as an go between and just forward what the person remitted? JMO

Usually the state will garnish the wages (sometimes it's automatic so the person doesn't have to deal with the ex over money). It sounds like there were no wages to garnish though. IMO, the court would not pay money and expect Crystal to reimburse them.

[Motomom]

I'm wondering if the media has this wrong....again. How could she qualify for a house?

I am thinking it is "they" bought a house....she and her fiancée bought a house???

I think it was easy enough to get a loan back in the end of 05, beginning of 06. The lenders would give a dog a loan for a house at that point IMO. Many many many people attained houses during that time period that they couldn't afford..hence all the forclosures now.. Or are my dates off a little bit?

[Armchairdet]

Usually the state will garnish the wages (sometimes it's automatic so the person doesn't have to deal with the ex over money). It sounds like there were no wages to garnish though. IMO, the court would not pay money and expect Crystal to reimburse them.

The minimum wage for a tipped employee in Florida is 4.19 as of the first of the year. Some states it is still 2.13. But anyway, imo a tipped employees taxes etc would be withheld at at least federal mimimum wage. Or, the 4.19 plus tips in her case. So her check may be for 40 hours, after taxes around 100 dollars. This is because the taxes are withheld based on her tip claim as well If she has anything else taken out like insurance, it could be less. I am probably not explaining it well. But her pay check would barely pay her child support, and I am not sure if the state can garnish the whole thing. IMO

[Peaches]

My question is:

What do you think a mother owes her children?



If you leave your child...............what do you owe them?

[AlohaRainbow]

I really dont like the timing of this. I wonder what the moms boyfriend plays in all of this.
i also find the timing intriguing.
a filing re over $4000 in back child support shortly before haleigh goes missing

things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm

[AlohaRainbow]

This is awful to say, but if Haleigh is not found, guess that amount would be lowered. Has anyone seen any information where her youngest daughter is and who is taking care of her? JMO
my understanding re child support is that any back amounts aren't lowered, as they're aleady owed... but if haleigh remains missing, i would think future amounts would be lowered to reflect child support only for JR.

[Armchairdet]

Haleigh is last seen Feb. 9, 2009..the contempt charges were filed Feb.10, 2009. This bothers me!! Maybe GR should have asked her about this!! :(

Feb 9th was a full moon. IMO

Makes for more light.

[Rigeljo]

Thank you for the link. It was interesting that the State filed the contempt order. Crystal hasn't paid her court ordered support in more than a year.

Crystal's fiance also has children from a previous marraige. If he had money going out for support to his 1st family, a new baby with Crystal and she had support obligations to JR and Haleigh, that would be a heavy financial burden.

If I am not mistaken, Crystal could lost her visitation rights for this not payment of support.What other 'Dead beat" parent laws are in effect in Fla. Could she be jailed for the contempt order?

There are many "dead-beat" parent laws in Florida, but Florida is one of the slowest and most back-logged states in the US. How do I know? My dead-beat ex lives there and they recently picked him up again and now he has been paying for about 5 months. Great.....Florida finally decided my case was important enough to work on which is also great. It's a shame, though, my child will be 22yrs old in a couple months and I struggled for many years and begged them to pick him up....even gave them the addresses he moved to....Of course, I am happy they finally are getting him but it is so sad that Florida is so overwhelmed with dead-beat parents.

[playnice]

Haleigh is last seen Feb. 9, 2009..the contempt charges were filed Feb.10, 2009. This bothers me!! Maybe GR should have asked her about this!! :(

Out of all these people in this case, Crystals mother bothers me the most.

[AlohaRainbow]

That would be about 12 months of missing payments, when was she in the accident that prevented her from working.
couldn't she have gone to court to get the monthly child support amount temporarily lowered for the time that she couldn't work?

i've seen cases here in hawaii where that happens.... but it needs to be done at the time. if done much later, courts here basically tell the parent who is behind that they still owe the back amount because they asked too late (although future amounts might be reduced if the situation is ongoing).

[crymeariver2006]

http://www1.putnam-fl.com/live/clkmain.asp
on the left -click online inquiries
then civil dockets
then put this number in the UCN== 542005DR001321FDXXXX

Here are the last 2 entries
2009-02-10 055.MOTION FOR CONTEMPT 03-27-09 AT 08:30

2009-02-20 056.NOTICE OF DISMISSAL

Much appreciated!

I'm not getting the actual documents though. :angry:

[Speedy30]

Possible Haleigh sighting in Michigan, photo send to Grand Mom from friend there.

Didnt Misty have family in Michigan?

[JD1974]

I don't remember seeing an amount, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Also lots of poster thought Ron had filed the documents and others thought Crystal. Turns out neither of them filed it. I wonder if the court had been paying the child support and Crystal was supposed to reimburse them. I don't know how that works. Would the court stop paying if the person that was supposed to be paying it to them was not remitting the funds or do they act as an go between and just forward what the person remitted? JMO

4100.00+ in arrearages. Ron asked for the contempt to be filed, it was in essense filed by/on behalf of him. Court's only pay out what they recieve, they do not just cut people a check for support and then expect to be reimbursed. The courts are just the go between.

[Peaches]

I thought I read/saw that Crystals "home" that was purchased was a trailer home, making the transaction a lot more realistic as far as purchase price for Crystal and her fiance to be able to afford/finance, imo.

What I read was maybe it was a trailer because searches were not finding a house registered.

It was said that Crystal is coming into a settlement from her auto accident.

It was said that she--------SHE signed papers during the holidays.

Makes one wonder

[JD1974]

couldn't she have gone to court to get the monthly child support amount temporarily lowered for the time that she couldn't work?

i've seen cases here in hawaii where that happens.... but it needs to be done at the time. if done much later, courts here basically tell the parent who is behind that they still owe the back amount because they asked too late (although future amounts might be reduced if the situation is ongoing).

Yeah you can go and get it lowered, you don't even need a lawyer, they use some form to crunch all the numbers and they would of put her at minimum wage income wise.

[Rigeljo]

One report said that she moved here 7 years ago from there, probably still has family there.

JMO

Wouldn't this be just the greatest day if this sighting is real ???

[JD1974]

Possible Haleigh sighting in Michigan, photo send to Grand Mom from friend there.


Did they say from where in Michigan?

[crymeariver2006]

The minimum wage for a tipped employee in Florida is 4.19 as of the first of the year. Some states it is still 2.13. But anyway, imo a tipped employees taxes etc would be withheld at at least federal mimimum wage. Or, the 4.19 plus tips in her case. So her check may be for 40 hours, after taxes around 100 dollars. This is because the taxes are withheld based on her tip claim as well If she has anything else taken out like insurance, it could be less. I am probably not explaining it well. But her pay check would barely pay her child support, and I am not sure if the state can garnish the whole thing. IMO

I don't think they can either. Somewhere in those documents have to be actual wage reports from actual employers.

<thinking back to my waitress days> It used to be (back in the day) that you didn't have to report tips. However, that changed and employers computed the tips as a percentage of the check - whether you actually got a tip or not.

In the custody documents, Ron "thinks" Crystal is working at a barbeque restaurant but he doesn't know the name of it. At that point, is it even determined that she is working? It appears that a "guesstimate" is made based on a job making minimum wage that she may not even have. KWIM?

Like I said, somewhere in those court filings there HAS to be something from an employer stating what she makes and an understanding of any amount subject to garnishment.

As usual in this case, we're not getting the whole story.

JMO

[caphill]

Live 12 o'clock news from local station

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/noon/default.aspx


WOW. If a friend of Grandma Griffis photographed a child in Michigan that looked like Haleigh, why didn't they contact LE with lead rather than contacting grandma on her cell phone.

This is mighty hinky. A whole lot of "splainin" would be due if Grandma Griffis' friend just happen to see her and photograph her. I hope this story is true and this girl is found alive and well.

[GentleBreeze]

But why just grab Haleigh, and not Junior, she still has to pay for him.

Maybe that would be too suspicious and she may have thought that the court would return Jr. to her custody if Haleigh was kidnapped from Ron's home?

imoo

[JD1974]

Didnt Misty have family in Michigan?

You guys are going to think I am crazy, I really didn't want to tell anyone else this because I think I may be crazy but I saw something kind of strange where I live in Ann Arbor and I reported it, it was a week ago. Now there may have been another sighting here in Mi?

[crymeariver2006]

Didnt Misty have family in Michigan?


Seems like I remember that.

It was also mentioned that Joe the Cousin had lived there too.

(I just hope this isn't a "Caylee at the Mall" sighting.)

[Speedy30]

Maybe that would be too suspicious and she may have thought that the court would return Jr. to her custody if Haleigh was kidnapped from Ron's home?

imoo

Thats a great thought, but then she would have to count on Junior never saying to Ron, Haleigh is at Moms, or wherever, and I really really want that to be the case, I really want Crystal to have taken the girl, it beats the alternative. I hope the sighting is real, I really do.

[crymeariver2006]

You're right, my ex got it lowered from originally $50.00 a week down to $33.00 a MONTH.....and he still never paid. What is scarier for the state of Florida is he was a convicted sex offender and they were never able to keep up with him. He skipped many probation officer meetings and there just seem to be so many in that state, it takes forever to get to them.

See, no amount of money would be worth keeping me "tied" to a sex offender ex-husband and father.

I'd work six jobs and he wouldn't know where I lived.

But that's just me.

God bless you for trying though. :rose:

[Kelly3820]

The person that snatched Haleigh could have snatched her at 11:00.
That would make that 1 1/2 trip pretty easily. I want to know more but it does make a clear motive.

[Kelly3820]

Speedy, my thought is, whoever took Haleigh might have been in the process of coming right back for Junior.

I agree it would be dumb to just take one - you'd still owe child support. But curious the back door was STILL propped open when Misty discovered it - as if, maybe, the perp was on the way back in to get Junior.


Yeah and someone may have stirred. Perhaps the baby looking right at them made for a quick get away.

[crymeariver2006]

I just got a e-mail this morning. Its a full sized 11 ft. buck in the mouth of a gator thats 28 ft. long. In Alabama.
Don't know how to get it here.

Sign up for a Photobucket account, upload it, and post the link.

:wink:

[AlohaRainbow]

I don't think they can either. Somewhere in those documents have to be actual wage reports from actual employers.

<thinking back to my waitress days> It used to be (back in the day) that you didn't have to report tips. However, that changed and employers computed the tips as a percentage of the check - whether you actually got a tip or not.

In the custody documents, Ron "thinks" Crystal is working at a barbeque restaurant but he doesn't know the name of it. At that point, is it even determined that she is working? It appears that a "guesstimate" is made based on a job making minimum wage that she may not even have. KWIM?

Like I said, somewhere in those court filings there HAS to be something from an employer stating what she makes and an understanding of any amount subject to garnishment.

As usual in this case, we're not getting the whole story.

JMO
it's my understanding that the irs can also withhold any refunds when child support is owed

[JD1974]

it's my understanding that the irs can also withhold any refunds when child support is owed


If you pass 500.00 the irs will hold your refund for the amount you owe. Varies state to state.

[WhiteShark]

But Misty doesn't hear a thing.

:confused:

after listening to that tape, my impression was he heard the "search" for Hayleigh............because he said he was awakened from a dead sleep by noises in the back and when he went out, he learned his neighbor's little girl was missing....(paraphrased)........
He also said it would be unusual for someone to be back there and not be heard.

I don't think he heard any kidnapping.

[Mimi428]

There is a very lengthy court report on Crystal Gaynell Cummings, I believe she is Ron's sister, posted on another forum that I belong to. I am not sure if I can post it here or post a link to that forum, it is public court record. Any advise?
:confused:

Beachpatty

Crystal Gaynell Cummings, who is Ron's sister, has a record in at least two Florida counties. Could be more, I don't know, I have only looked in Lake County & in Sumter County.

Here is the link to her Lake County records...

http://lakecountyclerk.org/online_court_records.asp

She has several citations for traffic violations & two felony charges.

In July 2003 she was charged with felony petit theft -

http://lakecountyclerk.org/online_court_records_detail.asp?case_id=34004698

One of the notations in that record -

9/22/2003 FELONY FINE ASSESSED Charge #1: LARC-PETIT THIRD OR SUBSEQUENT CONVICTION, DEFT PRES FOR SENTENCING; ATTY NACKE,PD PRES - PREVIOUS PLEA WITHDRAWN; PLEA OF NOLO CONTENDERE AS TO CT I WAS ENTERED; COURT ACCEPTED PLEA; ADJUDGED GUILTY AS TO CT I; AS TO CT I DEFT SENT TO 2 YEARS PROBATION; SEE COSTS/FEES ORDER


A little less than three months later - 12/19/2003 ALERT ISSUED VIOLATION OF PROBATION issued on: 121903 For: CUMMINGS, CRYSTAL GAYNELL Bond Amt: 0 Bond Type:

Something was going on at the same time in Sumter County -

2/23/2004 32 JUDGE'S REVIEW FORM RE: PRO-SE COMMUNICATION REQUESTING TO PLEA CONCURRENT WITH SUMTER COUNTY CASE - JUDGE'S COMMENTS - SET ON NEXT HEARING DOCKET

A month later, this was entered into her record...

3/19/2004 40 ORDER OF MODIFICATION OF PROBATION - PROBATION REINSTATED W/ ALL PREVIOUS COSTS & CONDITIONS, CONCURRENT W/SUMTER COUNTY - ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS: $40.00 PD APP FEE, $6.00 RECORDING FEE, $550.00 PD LEIN, 6 MONTHS RESIDENTIAL DRUG TREATMENT IN OCALA AND ANY AFTER CARE PROGRAM

Seven months later -

10/25/2004 ALERT ISSUED VIOLATION OF PROBATION issued on: 10/25/2004 For: CUMMINGS, CRYSTAL GAYNELL Bond Amt: 0 Bond Type:

And then she was arrested -

1/20/2005 45 ARREST AFFIDAVIT - LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 1/13/05 ARREST ON LAKE COUNTY VOP WARRANT

Little over a month later -

2/23/2005 54 DEFT PRES FOR SENTENCING; ATTY NACKE, APD PRES - PREVIOUS PLEA WITHDRAWN; DEFT ADMITS VOP GUILTY AS TO CT I WAS ENTERED; PROBATION REVOKED; COURT ACCEPTED PLEA; DEFT PREVIOUSLY ADJUDGED GUILTY ON 092203 AS TO CT I; AS TO CT I DEFT SENT TO TIME SERVED IN LCJ; SEE COSTS/FEES ORDER

[Erin26GA]

Out of all these people in this case, Crystals mother bothers me the most.

Im glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. There's just something about her that ticks me off.

[JD1974]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/3095585756_48d69fc8af_o.jpg


That is one scary picture!

[caphill]

4100.00+ in arrearages. Ron asked for the contempt to be filed, it was in essense filed by/on behalf of him. Court's only pay out what they recieve, they do not just cut people a check for support and then expect to be reimbursed. The courts are just the go between.


My understanding if the child support payments are made to the Court the payments are then in turn distributed to the custodial parent. If the arrearage reachs a certain amount the court then files the Contempt order.

From what I just read the State filed the Contempt and Ron received notice of that the day or day before Haleigh was taken. It is not put to Ron ask for the filing. The States records of non payment is what generates the filing.

[WhiteShark]

Claiming to be asleep is one thing, but imo misty has been Helen Keller like in not hearing a thing, not seeing a thing. The wrong information about the pink shirt is still disturbing to me.

If Jr. was awakened by the figure in black, why wasn't misty? Did Jr. try to wake misty? Was misty even there?

when my youngest was 17, he nearly slept thru the worst of a hurricane..........he didn't hear my screams, the dog licking him was the only thing that woke him up.
Both of my sons slept like they were gone to the world during their teens, and my neice does it now--she is only 17.

PS. No drugs involved in my 3 examples.

[WhiteShark]

Or, she woke up and couldnt find Misty and wandered outside and was eaten by a gator near the water. Which is horrible to think about.

jmo

one of my theories...........:sad:

[JD1974]

My understanding if the child support payments are made to the Court the payments are then in turn distributed to the custodial parent. If the arrearage reachs a certain amount the court then files the Contempt order.

From what I just read the State filed the Contempt and Ron received notice of that the day or day before Haleigh was taken. It is not put to Ron ask for the filing. The States records of non payment is what generates the filing.


Yeah the state files it on behalf of Ron, he doesn't have to request it but he can if he wants to. Most likely he goes through some kind of program like we have here..Friend of the Court, they work for the state. They are the ones who file and they file on behalf of the custodial parent. When the non-custodial recieves the papers it will say State of xxxx vs non custodial parent. When you read the actual papers it says the state is acting on the behalf of the custodial parent.

[KKKKKKatie]

Mine too.

Sadly.

:sad:


If this is the case we will never really know what happened to her. It would be so sad for everyone :sad:

[CANDYKISSES]

Out of all these people in this case, Crystals mother bothers me the most.

Yup, she makes me appreciate the amenities of a shower. JMO. :unsure:

[Mimi428]

I have a lot of appreciation for irony - for all the arrests Ron had on drug charges - which were later dropped - his sister does not seem to have the same sort of luck in court that he did.

In February of 2003, Ron's SISTER was arrested for 1) MARIJUANA POSSESS-NOT MORE THAN 20 GRAMS . 2) NARCOTIC EQUIP POSSESS-AND OR USE.

http://lakecountyclerk.org/online_court_records_detail.asp?case_id=84671233

Unlike her brother's usual outcomes, she got a different deal -

3/11/2003 3 DEFENDANT PRESENT FOR ARRAIGNMENT, DEF WAIVED COUNSEL, PLEA OF NOLO CONTENDERE WAS TENDERED FOR CT-1 & 2, JUDGE BOYLSTON WITHHELD ADJUDICATION ON BOTH COUNTS. JUDGE BOYLSTON IMPOSED A SENTENCE OF $250.00 COURT COST AS TO CT-1 AND $150.00 COURT COST AS TO CT-2. PAYMENTS FOR CT-1&2 IS DEFERRED TO 5/12/03.

[KKKKKKatie]

I think le has a pretty good idea by now and is keeping it tight lipped, but I do think the public will be informed and we will have some type of idea as to what happened to Haleigh, if not the entire story. Hopefully, that will include an alive and safe Haleigh.

jmo


From your keyboard to God's ears Viking!

[Politigal]

I think law enforcement needs to take search dogs out in the neighborhood again....if someone there close took Haleigh, he could have moved her again....and the dogs might be able to pinpoint a home.

[Mimi428]

I think le has a pretty good idea by now and is keeping it tight lipped, but I do think the public will be informed and we will have some type of idea as to what happened to Haleigh, if not the entire story. Hopefully, that will include an alive and safe Haleigh.

jmo

I think you are right, that LE knows so much more than we ever will & that they probably have a fairly good idea of which directions are most likely to be promising.

This case is SO disheartening. So many of the family members have criminal arrests - & they are living with or have been living with other people with criminal arrests/convictions.

Ron's sister has done jail time & has had at least a couple of arrests/convictions for things that involved drug. She has at least one child with a man who has MORE arrests/convictions for drugs.

So who knows HOW many people know or have had drug dealings with Ron, his sister, Misty, Haleigh's mother, etc., etc.

I will go retrieve & post the links to the guy who was involved with Ron's sister. I don't know that he would have anything to do with any of them these days, but he seems to have a fairly significant burglary, drug, battery history.

JMO

[Erin26GA]

iirc, some states will not allow you to renew a driver's license if you have child support arrearages (might depend on the amount, though)


Here in Ga, if you don't pay your child support they will take your drivers license. An EX friend of ours was constantly having his taken away for not paying CS.

[Spry]

<Bolded mine>

It sure does. I've often watched Crystal interviewed and while you can hear the cries in her voice, the tears don't come easily and in fact, not many are shed at all, if any imo. The whole world is a suspect, however she doesn't seem to have the genuine concern that a parent would have in this situation, whether she has custody or not - she just doesn't seem connected to me. Course, I feel the same way about Ron and Misty AND Crystals fiance.

jmo

About the only person in this case I do like is the little boy. At least he has tried to help with volunteering a description.

The parents have done nothing but sling mud at each other and act like children. They both have had run-ins with with the law and in court. They both had issues with Haleigh while she was under their watch. And add a 16-17 year old into the mix who has changed her story more often than the wind, and it's a wonder the police have been able to determine anything at all. If they solve it or find Haleigh, I will be awestruck!

imo

[Mimi428]

Ita. Remember Ron's mom saying that Ron would never go back into the trailer, he could never move back in it? But then, Ron camps out as close as they will let him, so as to be there if/when Haleigh returns. Just to speculate, would Ron be camping out there to keep better track of le & fbi? I suppose you could look at it either way, but the whole camping out thing always struck me as very interesting.

jmo

I completely agree with your speculation. I think Ron wants to stay close to the trailer so he can have an idea of what is going on in & around it. It's not as if Haleigh is going to come strolling down the lane, open the door, go inside & say, "gee, where's Daddy?".

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

it's my understanding that the irs can also withhold any refunds when child support is owed

True Aloha, and eventually Crystal did admit to the name of the barbeque stand she worked at in the hearing transcripts iirc. Not to mention the MAGISTRATE mentioned that child support reverts to the MINIMUM when you aren't working (and it doesn't matter if you weren't working simply because you just didn't feel like getting out of bed either)....my words there. JMO:blushing:

[JD1974]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.

[Armchairdet]

I completely agree with your speculation. I think Ron wants to stay close to the trailer so he can have an idea of what is going on in & around it. It's not as if Haleigh is going to come strolling down the lane, open the door, go inside & say, "gee, where's Daddy?".

JMO



Not only that, even if he was not camped outside and she did walk up the lane, I am pretty sure someone would pass on the information to him.

I would have thought he would be staying with his mom by now. If I remember right he lived there right before moving to the mobile home.

IMO

[caphill]

No the reporter was live and said the Grand Mom just got the picture via cell phone and was looking at it.


I am going to predict we don't hear anything soon about the pic and sighting. I bet the LE immediately rushed to Grandma and took her phone and shut down any further reporting on this.

When Grandma got the call and the photo supposedly being sent to her phone she goes to the media first and doesn't let LE handle what could be explosive life saving or life threatening info.

I have avoided bashing either family but I will admit this Grandma has always given me a start. She seemed to the driving force in pointing fingers at Ron. She doesn't have a clean background according the court docs.

When I read the court hearing for the 2005 custody hearing and Crystal was living with her, I thought that might have been a factor in the judge awarding custody to single 22 yr old father. IIRC, Ron has presented the grandma's prior "rap sheets".

[Rigeljo]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.

I am hoping and praying you are correct !!! Go with your gut !!!!!

[KatyDid]

Just saw a banner on HLN before they cut to commercial. Said new clues in search for Haleigh.

[Erin26GA]

I completely agree with your speculation. I think Ron wants to stay close to the trailer so he can have an idea of what is going on in & around it. It's not as if Haleigh is going to come strolling down the lane, open the door, go inside & say, "gee, where's Daddy?".

JMO

I don't really find it odd. I believe if my child were missing, there's no way I would leave my property.

[Armchairdet]

I am hoping and praying you are correct !!! Go with your gut !!!!!

I agree! Sometimes a gut feeling has been all that was needed to turn a case around. Good job!

[Mimi428]

Here are some of the court records for Ron's SISTER, from Sumter County.

February 2001 - Arrested for POSSESSION LESS 20 GRAMS MARIJUANA

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=60&data=b95e74590c17466b2a7e4657d8cf0031

If you open that link, you will find she had a whole lot of trouble keeping up with the terms of her probation (6 months), was re-arrested for violation of her probation & actually ended up having to do jail time - for a MISDEMEANOR charge.

She was eventually sentenced to 60 days (altho she did not serve that long).

I wonder if the Florida courts are harder on female defendants, or if Sumter County & Lake County are just more strict than Putnam County (where her brother was arrested several times on more charges than she was). I dunno.

JMO

[JD1974]

JD, I remember your post about seeing the little girl. It reminded me of when you watch "Murder, She Wrote", and the camera zooms in on something -you don't know why, but you know you need to pay attention to that. That's how reading your post felt to me - like, pay attention here, this is something.

I think both things are possible - there's an outside chance this was Haleigh, and there's probably a bigger chance this girl looks like Haleigh and has caused this other reported sighting.



That is exactly what it felt like, I seen that picture and it was like something hit me. I was so nervous talking to them because I know how dumb it sounded, she is from FL and I am all the way in MI. I was so nervous I was almost crying, I have never reported something or even thought I have seen anything like this before. It really makes you feel strange.

[indie lost]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.

Holy canoli....do you know where the other sighting was? I live in Grand Rapids. Where in MI was Crystal from?

[breeze53]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.




I wish you could look at the pic that was sent to the grandma this may be her and no i dont think your crazy i think your a very good person doing what needs to be done to find this child.

[JD1974]

Holy canoli....do you know where the other sighting was? I live in Grand Rapids. Where in MI was Crystal from?

No idea, I have been trying to figure both out.

[Snewpy]

Good morning. Sorry I'm at work and haven't been able to catch up with the boards, so maybe this has been addressed. If so I apologize.

My take on the whole Man in Black thing is this. IF the little boy said it the night Haleigh was taken, like when Misty was tearing around the house looking for her, all upset... THEN I might take it for what it's worth. I mean it wasn't like she called 911 and said, the girl is gone, her brother saw a man in black come in and take her.

But for him to mention it later, after he's been listening to adults talk about someone "taking" his sister, and how someone "came in the trailer" and took his sister, I am hard pressed to find much value in the statement so far after the fact. Children at that age mix fantasy and reality all the time, dreams and reality.. who knows. He must be so traumatized and just wants to be helpful, to help find his sister.

I also thought it very strange that bio mom didn't "question" her son further when he told her that. Are you kidding? I would have been all over that. I mean you have to be careful, of course, but how could your child say that and you just be like, oh, ok, that's good???

JMO as always. Prayers for Haleigh and all the missing little ones.

[beachpatty]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.


I don't think you're nuts, you did exactly the right thing! Many missing have been found the exact same way, it happens on AMW all the time but people just went with their first instincts.

Kudos to you, how wonderful if they can link the 2 sightings now, just imagine if you were instrumental in bringing Haleigh home :thumbsup:

[Rigeljo]

Good morning. Sorry I'm at work and haven't been able to catch up with the boards, so maybe this has been addressed. If so I apologize.

My take on the whole Man in Black thing is this. IF the little boy said it the night Haleigh was taken, like when Misty was tearing around the house looking for her, all upset... THEN I might take it for what it's worth. I mean it wasn't like she called 911 and said, the girl is gone, her brother saw a man in black come in and take her.

But for him to mention it later, after he's been listening to adults talk about someone "taking" his sister, and how someone "came in the trailer" and took his sister, I am hard pressed to find much value in the statement so far after the fact. Children at that age mix fantasy and reality all the time, dreams and reality.. who knows. He must be so traumatized and just wants to be helpful, to help find his sister.

I also thought it very strange that bio mom didn't "question" her son further when he told her that. Are you kidding? I would have been all over that. I mean you have to be careful, of course, but how could your child say that and you just be like, oh, ok, that's good???

JMO as always. Prayers for Haleigh and all the missing little ones.

I think this is NOT new....It has just recently been "leaked".....The boy has been questioned by the investigators since day 1.

[indie lost]

No idea, I have been trying to figure both out.

Tell you what...you search your side of the state and I will search mine.

I work at T@rget and am always scanning the faces of children to compare them to missing children. But I know what you mean about the deer in the headlights look. Look at the case of Shasta Groene. It was a civilian like you that followed her gut and she was right on.

[CANDYKISSES]

I am going to predict we don't hear anything soon about the pic and sighting. I bet the LE immediately rushed to Grandma and took her phone and shut down any further reporting on this.

When Grandma got the call and the photo supposedly being sent to her phone she goes to the media first and doesn't let LE handle what could be explosive life saving or life threatening info.

I have avoided bashing either family but I will admit this Grandma has always given me a start. She seemed to the driving force in pointing fingers at Ron. She doesn't have a clean background according the court docs.

When I read the court hearing for the 2005 custody hearing and Crystal was living with her, I thought that might have been a factor in the judge awarding custody to single 22 yr old father. IIRC, Ron has presented the grandma's prior "rap sheets".

Oh dear, haven't we just escaped a case where Grandma was holding court with sightings but not passing it to LE?

What is wrong with people who do this?:cursing:

[Snewpy]

I think this is NOT new....It has just recently been "leaked".....The boy has been questioned by the investigators since day 1.

I agree, it's more than a possibility that LE has known about it for longer than we have, but still, I would think the night it happened he would have told Misty and she would have told 911. Would have been a KEY thing to inform 911 of, yes? I just think that anything said by the child AFTER he heard all the commotion and what his father was screaming at the 911 operator, you have to take with a major grain of salt.

JMO of course

[Rigeljo]

Oh dear, haven't we just escaped a case where Grandma was holding court with sightings but not passing it to LE?

What is wrong with people who do this?:cursing:

I hope this all really means something....But if I were a friend of a family member of a missing child, like this person is, supposedly, In addition to taking the picture, I would stuck to the child like glue. If it was my friend's grandchild, I would be sneaking, hiding, following, etc. Hopefully the phone pic was the quickest way to notify someone and the friend is hot on the trail of whoever it is. Whether it's Haleigh or not....Let's pray that's how it's going down !

[Rigeljo]

I agree, it's more than a possibility that LE has known about it for longer than we have, but still, I would think the night it happened he would have told Misty and she would have told 911. Would have been a KEY thing to inform 911 of, yes? I just think that anything said by the child AFTER he heard all the commotion and what his father was screaming at the 911 operator, you have to take with a major grain of salt.

JMO of course

Yes, that would be the "normal" reaction from Misty...but her reactions have been anything but normal. I wonder if she is/was so afraid of Ron when he was angry that she had no idea what the heck she said/saw/did with all his yelling in the background.

[emdragon]

Here are some of the court records for Ron's SISTER, from Sumter County.

February 2001 - Arrested for POSSESSION LESS 20 GRAMS MARIJUANA

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=60&data=b95e74590c17466b2a7e4657d8cf0031

If you open that link, you will find she had a whole lot of trouble keeping up with the terms of her probation (6 months), was re-arrested for violation of her probation & actually ended up having to do jail time - for a MISDEMEANOR charge.

She was eventually sentenced to 60 days (altho she did not serve that long).

I wonder if the Florida courts are harder on female defendants, or if Sumter County & Lake County are just more strict than Putnam County (where her brother was arrested several times on more charges than she was). I dunno.

JMO

I would think this should end all the talk about Ron's mom having connections and getting him out of trouble.

[JD1974]

Tell you what...you search your side of the state and I will search mine.

I work at T@rget and am always scanning the faces of children to compare them to missing children. But I know what you mean about the deer in the headlights look. Look at the case of Shasta Groene. It was a civilian like you that followed her gut and she was right on.


I am going to go back and look at her parents name and search them, we won't find anything on her because she was a minor when she moved to FL and duh I can't believe I just realized that! I have been searching for her and she is a minor...:blushing:

[emdragon]

Tell you what...you search your side of the state and I will search mine.

I work at T@rget and am always scanning the faces of children to compare them to missing children. But I know what you mean about the deer in the headlights look. Look at the case of Shasta Groene. It was a civilian like you that followed her gut and she was right on.

What was amazing about that civilian in Shasta's case is the alert always included both children, but only seeing one the woman still called it in- many would have talked themselves out of calling thinking it couldn't be her without her brother being there too.

[WhiteShark]

If this is the case we will never really know what happened to her. It would be so sad for everyone :sad:

right, kind of like poor little Trenton. In that case, she took him out that area where they searched so often and hard.........and something happened ending with gators or something to, well you know.

About the cinderblock. Misty said she would use that door to carry out garbage, which she admits she did that night, and also sometimes when she smoked. I don't know if she was there when little Haleigh wondered out, but this is really the only thing making sense to me right now.

[Speedy30]

Good morning. Sorry I'm at work and haven't been able to catch up with the boards, so maybe this has been addressed. If so I apologize.

My take on the whole Man in Black thing is this. IF the little boy said it the night Haleigh was taken, like when Misty was tearing around the house looking for her, all upset... THEN I might take it for what it's worth. I mean it wasn't like she called 911 and said, the girl is gone, her brother saw a man in black come in and take her.

But for him to mention it later, after he's been listening to adults talk about someone "taking" his sister, and how someone "came in the trailer" and took his sister, I am hard pressed to find much value in the statement so far after the fact. Children at that age mix fantasy and reality all the time, dreams and reality.. who knows. He must be so traumatized and just wants to be helpful, to help find his sister.

I also thought it very strange that bio mom didn't "question" her son further when he told her that. Are you kidding? I would have been all over that. I mean you have to be careful, of course, but how could your child say that and you just be like, oh, ok, that's good???

JMO as always. Prayers for Haleigh and all the missing little ones.

Good post.

And also, so Junior sees Haleigh being taken and then just goes back to sleep? But then again, look what happened with Elizabeth Smart.

moo

[caphill]

If that ever happens again JD, or anyone of us, you get in your car and watch to see if they get into a car and get a plate number. Or if there is a strong feeling you follow them. Ask the clerk if they know who was just in their store. And always can dial 911. Always.


If I thought I might have seen a missing person I would do that. I would also call 911 immediately to report what I had seen.

After JD reported the sighting, I hope the LE followed up. Did LE contact JD for any further questioning? The reason the Amber Alerts are put out is to keep the public aware of the missing person and what they look like in case someone has seen them.

Apparently Grandman saw the pic because it was reported the little girl had shorter hair than Haleigh.

[JD1974]

Tell you what...you search your side of the state and I will search mine.

I work at T@rget and am always scanning the faces of children to compare them to missing children. But I know what you mean about the deer in the headlights look. Look at the case of Shasta Groene. It was a civilian like you that followed her gut and she was right on.

I am not sure if this is the same person but I did find a Hank Croslin from Parma which is 45 miles west of me. The other thing that had me wondering is because I live right off of I94 in a college town, about 20 miles west of I75. People blend in here. The store is 0.4 miles from the exit ramp off of I94.

[Mimi428]

I would think this should end all the talk about Ron's mom having connections and getting him out of trouble.

How do you figure?

Influence or connections in one county doesn't mean it would carry over to another county.

The county where I live has what almost seems like a 'mission' for making a big deal out of arresting people & making sure the media gets any & all information about the person getting off lightly, or not being prosecuted in any OTHER county. And the same is done to people, especially LE, from this county being arrested elsewhere. You would think it is some sort of "gotcha" game, the way it gets reported.

Another example - this one from St John's County - Ron was arrested in 2004 for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". Six weeks later, it was dropped, they decided not to prosecute.

He sure does seem to have a way with either being arrested on bogus charges (poor widdle thing) - or having a lot of charges beyond traffic tickets dropped (amazing, ain't it?).

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=55&data=9522f399e558b6bb26720496b54fc679

JMO, but if he does have any connections, I doubt they would be through his mother.

[caphill]

That is exactly what it felt like, I seen that picture and it was like something hit me. I was so nervous talking to them because I know how dumb it sounded, she is from FL and I am all the way in MI. I was so nervous I was almost crying, I have never reported something or even thought I have seen anything like this before. It really makes you feel strange.



To have that kind of emotion reaction you must have felt you had made a connection with the child.

Whether or not this was Haleigh, you must feel better that you reacted to at least the possibility. There are many people who turn their heads because they want to get "involved".

[HI_CYCLE]

Good morning. Sorry I'm at work and haven't been able to catch up with the boards, so maybe this has been addressed. If so I apologize.

My take on the whole Man in Black thing is this. IF the little boy said it the night Haleigh was taken, like when Misty was tearing around the house looking for her, all upset... THEN I might take it for what it's worth. I mean it wasn't like she called 911 and said, the girl is gone, her brother saw a man in black come in and take her.

But for him to mention it later, after he's been listening to adults talk about someone "taking" his sister, and how someone "came in the trailer" and took his sister, I am hard pressed to find much value in the statement so far after the fact. Children at that age mix fantasy and reality all the time, dreams and reality.. who knows. He must be so traumatized and just wants to be helpful, to help find his sister.

I also thought it very strange that bio mom didn't "question" her son further when he told her that. Are you kidding? I would have been all over that. I mean you have to be careful, of course, but how could your child say that and you just be like, oh, ok, that's good???

JMO as always. Prayers for Haleigh and all the missing little ones. I find it strange the link to Misty`s cousin`s my space was deleted when I posted a picture from his page with a guy dressed in black and had a black cape on his head. That was why I found it spooky. Did LE see the picture? Does this individual live in St. John`s County? I have not ask CW why it was removed. I figure she had her reasons.

[Rigeljo]

what happened to the poster that said one of the news stations said breaking news in the case right before it went to commercial?

It was HLN....The "new" announcement was that the little boy stated he saw someone in black take his sister.....The only other thing they discussed was the polygraphs. An expert on there stated that people are NOT given their results from the examiner. The tests are sent elsewhere for evaluation, which would be why no one is excluded yet. He said that the examiner probably said something like "OK, Looks good." and The family took that as they passed.

[HI_CYCLE]

How do you figure?

Influence or connections in one county doesn't mean it would carry over to another county.

The county where I live has what almost seems like a 'missioni' for making a big deal out of arresting people & making sure the media gets any & all information about the person getting off lightly, or not being prosecuted in any OTHER county. And the same is done to people, especially LE, from this county being arrested elsewhere. You would think it is some sort of "gotcha" game, the way it gets reported.

Another example - this one from St John's County - Ron was arrested in 2004 for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". Six weeks later, it was dropped, they decided not to prosecute.

He sure does seem to have a way with either being arrested on bogus charges (poor widdle thing) - or having a lot of charges beyond traffic tickets dropped (amazing, ain't it?).

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=55&data=9522f399e558b6bb26720496b54fc679

JMO, but if he does have any connections, I doubt they would be through his mother.
Misty this is the second link to a County and NO information with information on a subject. Why?

[Rigeljo]

I noticed there was some talk on this board last night about NG, being easy on the people around Haleigh. ( easy - my wording).

That really hit me, because I had been noticing the very same thing when it came to NG and that is just not like her at all. Some people may not like her, but I watch NG almost every night. I thought it was just "me" thinking that NG was being to easy on this family. I am a little confused on why she is? Anyone have any opinions?

Also, I may have been answered and missed it somewhere.

Is this normal for LE to stay so closed mouth about Haleigh? I do not think it is, but the only thing I can come up with is they " know" who it is and is waiting for DNA, etc.

If the above isn't so, wouldn't they " want" things out into the media to help find Haleigh?

I agree with you about both points you make. This is another very odd case all the way around....

[Mimi428]

Misty this is the second link to a County and NO information with information on a subject. Why?


I'm not sure I understand your question, but here is what I get when I click that link...


CASE NUMBER FILE DATE CASE TYPE STATUS
552004MM001437XXAXMX
[04001437MMMA] 03/23/2004 MISDEMEANOR CLOSED CASE
CHARGE SEQ# STATUTE STATUTE TEXT DATE PHASE
2 827.041 CONTRIBUTING TO THE DELINQUENCY OF A MINOR 05/04/2004 Prosecutor: Nolle Prosequi

[DEFENDANT=CUMMINGS, RONALD LEMYLES ]

LAST DOCKET DATE=05/04/2004
[Court Events | Finance Info]

ACTION DATE TEXT
03/22/2004 1-ARREST REPORT (AGENCY RPT #04081195) 032304/NS
03/22/2004 ARRESTED ON 03/21/2004
03/22/2004 1ST APP - PD APPTD - ROR BOND 032304/NS
03/23/2004 2-ROR BOND 3-22-04 032404/JM
04/14/2004 3-EMAIL FROM COURT ROOM - DEFT SHOWED UP FOR COURT TODAY-
04/14/2004 RESET TO 05/04/04 @ 9AM 041404/MF
04/14/2004 4-NOTIC TO DEFT CIT APP 05/04/04 @ 9AM 041404/MF
05/04/2004 NOLLE PROSSED 1
05/04/2004 CLOSED CASE

[HI_CYCLE]

I'm not sure I understand your question, but here is what I get when I click that link...


CASE NUMBER FILE DATE CASE TYPE STATUS
552004MM001437XXAXMX
[04001437MMMA] 03/23/2004 MISDEMEANOR CLOSED CASE
CHARGE SEQ# STATUTE STATUTE TEXT DATE PHASE
2 827.041 CONTRIBUTING TO THE DELINQUENCY OF A MINOR 05/04/2004 Prosecutor: Nolle Prosequi

[DEFENDANT=CUMMINGS, RONALD LEMYLES ]

LAST DOCKET DATE=05/04/2004
[Court Events | Finance Info]

ACTION DATE TEXT
03/22/2004 1-ARREST REPORT (AGENCY RPT #04081195) 032304/NS
03/22/2004 ARRESTED ON 03/21/2004
03/22/2004 1ST APP - PD APPTD - ROR BOND 032304/NS
03/23/2004 2-ROR BOND 3-22-04 032404/JM
04/14/2004 3-EMAIL FROM COURT ROOM - DEFT SHOWED UP FOR COURT TODAY-
04/14/2004 RESET TO 05/04/04 @ 9AM 041404/MF
04/14/2004 4-NOTIC TO DEFT CIT APP 05/04/04 @ 9AM 041404/MF
05/04/2004 NOLLE PROSSED 1
05/04/2004 CLOSED CASE

HUM..... This is what I am getting...





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[Mimi428]

HUM..... This is what I am getting...





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Type in the name(s) you are looking for - like this...

Cummings%

Ron%

Then hit "search".

If you want me to explain why when I click on the link it shows up on my PC, but why when you click on the same link it doesn't, I got no clue.

[HI_CYCLE]

Type in the name(s) you are looking for - like this...

Cummings%

Ron%

Then hit "search".

If you want me to explain why when I click on the link it shows up on my PC, but why when you click on the same link it doesn't, I got no clue.:smile: Got you.

[caphill]

How do you figure?

Influence or connections in one county doesn't mean it would carry over to another county.

The county where I live has what almost seems like a 'missioni' for making a big deal out of arresting people & making sure the media gets any & all information about the person getting off lightly, or not being prosecuted in any OTHER county. And the same is done to people, especially LE, from this county being arrested elsewhere. You would think it is some sort of "gotcha" game, the way it gets reported.

Another example - this one from St John's County - Ron was arrested in 2004 for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor". Six weeks later, it was dropped, they decided not to prosecute.

He sure does seem to have a way with either being arrested on bogus charges (poor widdle thing) - or having a lot of charges beyond traffic tickets dropped (amazing, ain't it?).

https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/do/docket?county=55&data=9522f399e558b6bb26720496b54fc679

JMO, but if he does have any connections, I doubt they would be through his mother.


What big connections do you need for charges of driving without a seat belt, underage drinking and contributing to the delinquency to a minor when he was practically a minor himself. The contributing charges were "nolle presequi". Those charges dropped by prosectors before being heard.

The charges were likely dropped because there was no merit to the charges. Maybe the minor was proven to not be a minor. He was only 20 yrs old at thte time.

Ron has had a number of traffic violations, a seat belt violation, a operating a motorcycle without a helmet, night deer hunting violations, a trespasing charge that was dropped, affray charge which is a threat or fight.

The bottom line is Ron has no criminal charges on his record.

[Mimi428]

The bottom line is Ron has no criminal charges on his record.

<snipped>

No criminal charges?

Or no criminal convictions?

[HI_CYCLE]

What big connections do you need for charges of driving without a seat belt, underage drinking and contributing to the delinquency to a minor when he was practically a minor himself. The contributing charges were "nolle presequi". Those charges dropped by prosectors before being heard.

The charges were likely dropped because there was no merit to the charges. Maybe the minor was proven to not be a minor. He was only 20 yrs old at thte time.

Ron has had a number of traffic violations, a seat belt violation, a operating a motorcycle without a helmet, night deer hunting violations, a trespasing charge that was dropped, affray charge which is a threat or fight.

The bottom line is Ron has no criminal charges on his record.Those dang trainer`s having to train the newbies. They usually use, " did you know your tag light is out". LOL

[caphill]

<bolding mine>

Yet we do not know if Ron had any criminal charges as a minor, that information is not available.


What difference does it make in the disappearance of his daughter many years later.

[HI_CYCLE]

<bolding mine>

Yet we do not know if Ron had any criminal charges as a minor, that information is not available.Does that mean my grandson has a criminal record, he was ticketed for having his music to loud when he was driving home from school. OOPS,,,,,,There goes his career in sports rehab....

[caphill]

<snipped>

No criminal charges?

Or no criminal convictions?


I got charged with a speeding violation. I went to court to challenge the charge. The police officer did not have evidence of his charge of speeding and the charges were dismissed.

Only convictions matter.

[HI_CYCLE]

Does that mean my grandson has a criminal record, he was ticketed for having his music to loud when he was driving home from school. OOPS,,,,,,There goes his career in sports rehab....
OOPS, just remembered, he was also charged for having blue lights around his tag by a newbie.... Oh, that was dropped because there was no law found on the books it was a violation. Little criminal. But I do love that little bugger....
:tonguewag:

[emdragon]

I noticed there was some talk on this board last night about NG, being easy on the people around Haleigh. ( easy - my wording).

That really hit me, because I had been noticing the very same thing when it came to NG and that is just not like her at all. Some people may not like her, but I watch NG almost every night. I thought it was just "me" thinking that NG was being to easy on this family. I am a little confused on why she is? Anyone have any opinions?

Also, I may have been answered and missed it somewhere.

Is this normal for LE to stay so closed mouth about Haleigh? I do not think it is, but the only thing I can come up with is they " know" who it is and is waiting for DNA, etc.

If the above isn't so, wouldn't they " want" things out into the media to help find Haleigh?

I noticed it during Caylee's coverage- other than Casey NG has been extremely fair to the Anthony's.
And she is softer with this case as well.

My thoughts on why are simple.. She is a parent now and her perspective has changed. Things she could begin to understand before the twins were born make sense to her now.

Caylee was the first missing/murdered child case that came up right after the twins were born- I believe that is also why her show stopped being topical and turned in the Casey Anthony hour for the last few months.

[caphill]

OOPS, just remembered, he was also charged for having blue lights around his tag by a newbie.... Oh, that was dropped because there was no law found on the books it was a violation. Little criminal. But I do love that little bugger....
:tonguewag:

Sounds like he is racking them up. Soon he will have a "rap" sheet a mile long.

[playnice]

I noticed it during Caylee's coverage- other than Casey NG has been extremely fair to the Anthony's.
And she is softer with this case as well.

My thoughts on why are simple.. She is a parent now and her perspective has changed. Things she could begin to understand before the twins were born make sense to her now.

Caylee was the first missing/murdered child case that came up right after the twins were born- I believe that is also why her show stopped being topical and turned in the Casey Anthony hour for the last few months.

She handled Mark Lunsford with respect when Jessie was missing.
Then came Duckett and we all know what happened.
I think she believed in Mark and I think she believes in Ron too.

[caphill]

I noticed it during Caylee's coverage- other than Casey NG has been extremely fair to the Anthony's.
And she is softer with this case as well.

My thoughts on why are simple.. She is a parent now and her perspective has changed. Things she could begin to understand before the twins were born make sense to her now.

Caylee was the first missing/murdered child case that came up right after the twins were born- I believe that is also why her show stopped being topical and turned in the Casey Anthony hour for the last few months.


It may have something to do with the fact she is still embroiled in litigation for shooting off her mouth regarding the investigation of the Trenton Duckett case.

[Mimi428]

I got charged with a speeding violation. I went to court to challenge the charge. The police officer did not have evidence of his charge of speeding and the charges were dismissed.

Only convictions matter.

What do you think the chances are that all the members of LE investigating this case, including the FBI would agree with you that Ron's arrests on drug charges do not matter at all, that only his convictions for traffic violations, etc., matter?

Somehow, I just don't believe they are investigating this case with that particular mindset. But that's just me, YMMV.

[cantstandnuts]

I noticed it during Caylee's coverage- other than Casey NG has been extremely fair to the Anthony's.
And she is softer with this case as well.

My thoughts on why are simple.. She is a parent now and her perspective has changed. Things she could begin to understand before the twins were born make sense to her now.

Caylee was the first missing/murdered child case that came up right after the twins were born- I believe that is also why her show stopped being topical and turned in the Casey Anthony hour for the last few months.

You could be right. I'm thinking it has more to do with the fact that she is being sued right now. Perhaps she's on her best behavior for the moment?

[caphill]

Chad Griffis is Haleigh's mothers' boyfriend. Right?
Does he have a rap sheet also?


I found something in Baker County under that name in public records for a domestic violence restraining order. I don't know it was the same person. Crystal also has a violation of a restraining order in Putman County. That violation may have been at the time she took the children and didn't return after Ron was granted custody.

[Armchairdet]

http://bakercountypress.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1375&Itemid=79


I guess Chad has some other kids too? IMO

[caphill]

What do you think the chances are that all the members of LE investigating this case, including the FBI would agree with you that Ron's arrests on drug charges do not matter at all, that only his convictions for traffic violations, etc., matter?

Somehow, I just don't believe they are investigating this case with that particular mindset. But that's just me, YMMV.th


The illegal drug charges were "nolle presequi". Those were dropped in open court. He does not have any drug convictions.

The charges that he was a drug user, drug dealer and possibly an informant came from Crystal and her family. Oops, I forgot to get Geraldo some credit for these allegations.

Crystal's dad even accused him of not giving the little boy when he was 6 months old a bottle when he "didn't have any teeth" LOL, that was a direct quote. When he presented his statement to the court he didn't even know how to spell his granddaughter's name.

[Rick777]

I got charged with a speeding violation. I went to court to challenge the charge. The police officer did not have evidence of his charge of speeding and the charges were dismissed.

Only convictions matter.


It depends on what you are trying to get out of the equation. If you are looking at a character assessment, being charged with as many things as Ron has (Big or small) tells you that he can't stay away from trouble. Not being convicted means he's taken the steps to clear the charge, the charge proved false, or....he's an informant.

[crymeariver2006]

Ok, I really hope you guys don't think I am nuts!

Couple weeks ago I seen something at the store that really bothered me, bothered me so much I talked to LE here in MI about it. There was a man with a little girl in the grocery store (that's why I think I may be crazy..the grocery store!) anyway I looked at her and I just KNEW I had seen her but I couldn't place her anywhere. I even posted about it on another thread. Anyway, the way this little girl stared at me made me really nervous and just gave me this feeling of something was wrong. She wouldn't stop staring at me and I looked right into her eyes, she looked like a deer caught in the headlights she was so scared.

On the Wednesday after I seen this I was watching one of those live broadcasts and I seen the picture with Haleigh where she has her hair pulled up into pony tails and I knew the girl I seen looked exactly like her. I first thought the girl I had seen was bi-racial because she was tanned looking, then I noticed Haleigh looked dark complected in that photo. Also the little girl I had seen her hair was kind of frizzy looking and it looked like no one had brushed it, her hair was also up in pony tails except the hair in the pony tail was left hanging downward.

I sent a message to someone I had been posting with on another case and told her about what I had seen and also asked my husband what he thought. After thinking about it I called it in to crimestoppers down there and I even asked if Haleigh was more tanned looking when she disappeared than she looked on her missing poster.

So now I hear someone else thinks they saw her here, maybe the same girl and they just look a lot alike? Probably, but it really unnerved me when I heard that.

If you scroll back to my old posts you will notice I freaked out when it was mentioned Misty is from MI, also when they showed the pony tails picture and now when this report came out. Like I said it is probably someone who hadthe same feeling I had, just something not right, probably isn't her but I really felt I had to call it in.

I remember you asking about that picture! I would have done the exact same thing FWIW.

[Mimi428]

th


The illegal drug charges were "nolle presequi". Those were dropped in open court. He does not have any drug convictions.

The charges that he was a drug user, drug dealer and possibly an informant came from Crystal and her family. Oops, I forgot to get Geraldo some credit for these allegations.

Crystal's dad even accused him of not giving the little boy when he was 6 months old a bottle when he "didn't have any teeth" LOL, that was a direct quote. When he presented his statement to the court he didn't even know how to spell his granddaughter's name.


Did you miss the question? I know what the records I have seen so far reflect.

What do you think the chances are that all the members of LE investigating this case, including the FBI would agree with you that Ron's arrests on drug charges do not matter at all, that only his convictions for traffic violations, etc., matter?

Somehow, I just don't believe they are investigating this case with that particular mindset. But that's just me, YMMV.

[emdragon]

It may have something to do with the fact she is still embroiled in litigation for shooting off her mouth regarding the investigation of the Trenton Duckett case.

Lol -that was my other thought

[beachpatty]

[QUOTE=horse64;12828243]I just know NG is usually pretty tough on people, because she wants the truth imo.

I did not know she had any problems with the Trenton case.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0609/08/ng.01.html

Melinda killed herself hours before the show aired.

(snipped for unrelated content)

[emdragon]

http://bakercountypress.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1375&Itemid=79


I guess Chad has some other kids too? IMO

oh nice find.

[baby4brennn]

I have been so busy the last 3 days i haven't been able to follow this case. can you please clue me in on the good details that have gone on this week? thanks

[baby4brennn]

I see that Crystal's fiance has the same last name as her mom, Griffis so would he be like her step brother??

[5boxersmom]

http://bakercountypress.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1375&Itemid=79


I guess Chad has some other kids too? IMO

So his middle initial is V. I was wondering if this was him. A domestic violence charge.
http://208.75.175.18/oncoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=267382&rn=0&pi=0&ref=search

[baby4brennn]

Did you see what i just wrote boxermom on her finace?

[Armchairdet]

So his middle initial is V. I was wondering if this was him. A domestic violence charge.
http://208.75.175.18/oncoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=267382&rn=0&pi=0&ref=search


Wow, nice find.

[crymeariver2006]

I would think this should end all the talk about Ron's mom having connections and getting him out of trouble.

Not necessarily.

IMO

I married into a family where there are chosen ones.

That's all I'll say about that. :wink:

[5boxersmom]

Did you see what i just wrote boxermom on her finace?

Yep he is her step brother. They were not raised as brother and sister though.

imo

[emdragon]

Did you miss the question? I know what the records I have seen so far reflect.

What do you think the chances are that all the members of LE investigating this case, including the FBI would agree with you that Ron's arrests on drug charges do not matter at all, that only his convictions for traffic violations, etc., matter?

Somehow, I just don't believe they are investigating this case with that particular mindset. But that's just me, YMMV.

No the arrests don't matter just any convictions.
Guess you forget anyone can be arrested but they are innocent until proven guilty- the charges were dropped- thus the charges mean nothing.

Now if Ron has a conviction of stealing a child from a trailer when he was minor that would matter-

[CC I See]

I noticed there was some talk on this board last night about NG, being easy on the people around Haleigh. ( easy - my wording).

That really hit me, because I had been noticing the very same thing when it came to NG and that is just not like her at all. Some people may not like her, but I watch NG almost every night. I thought it was just "me" thinking that NG was being to easy on this family. I am a little confused on why she is? Anyone have any opinions?

Also, I may have been answered and missed it somewhere.

Is this normal for LE to stay so closed mouth about Haleigh? I do not think it is, but the only thing I can come up with is they " know" who it is and is waiting for DNA, etc.

If the above isn't so, wouldn't they " want" things out into the media to help find Haleigh?

Yes, I was the one bringing that up last night.... and many responded supporting what I thought. After I went to bed and before sleep I reviewed Nancy Grace in my head. It is almost like she is a little hesitant to blast anyone by pointing the finger to a mysterious man in black. Marc Klass at first also blasted the family and even he has taken a few steps back. BTW: I happen to love his hair. :biggrin:

My theory is that certain lawyers who work with her have warned her for whatever reason to go easy on the big extended family. Maybe the fiasco Geraldo made added to that warning.... but whatever it was that happened, I can tell the difference in her reporting of this case.

I trust Nancy Grace.... we will see where this all leads. I am proud that she keeps the case current and in the news.

[baby4brennn]

Thats disgusting she is with her step brother! This is what crystal said in her profile
General: Taking care of my baby girl Chloe and the other brats thats pretty much it!!!! Oh yeah and my grown up baby Chad!!!

[Lorakai]

Please help CW decide about the threads on the main discussion page for Haleigh. I have been working on the organization aspect, and urge you to weight in on the poll CW now has running to help decide the matter.

Thank You,

Lorakai :)

[crymeariver2006]

So his middle initial is V. I was wondering if this was him. A domestic violence charge.
http://208.75.175.18/oncoreweb/showdetails.aspx?id=267382&rn=0&pi=0&ref=search

Wonder why she withdrew it?

In my best Dolly Parton/Steel Magnolias voice...."They's a story there!"

[Mimi428]

No the arrests don't matter just any convictions.
Guess you forget anyone can be arrested but they are innocent until proven guilty- the charges were dropped- thus the charges mean nothing.

Now if Ron has a conviction of stealing a child from a trailer when he was minor that would matter-

Do you REALLY think any/some/every person involved in investigating Haleigh's disappearance think..

IT DOES NOT MATTER

that Ron has those drug arrests?

THAT is the question.

I know what the court records show. I am asking if you think the INVESTIGATORS are even half as dismissive about Ron's arrests on drug charges. You know, the people working on figuring out Haleigh's disappearance?

I do not think for one short moment those investigators are saying, "gee Wally, better disregards those arrests, the dude wasn't convicted".

JMO

[emdragon]

Thats disgusting she is with her step brother! This is what crystal said in her profile
General: Taking care of my baby girl Chloe and the other brats thats pretty much it!!!! Oh yeah and my grown up baby Chad!!!

Not a huge fan of Crystals but since we now know Chad has kids of his own maybe those were the "brats" she was referring to and not Haleigh and Ron Jr.

[Speedy30]

Thats disgusting she is with her step brother! This is what crystal said in her profile
General: Taking care of my baby girl Chloe and the other brats thats pretty much it!!!! Oh yeah and my grown up baby Chad!!!


Step brother is not biologically related, I think it would be "disgusting" if they were bio siblings.

[emdragon]

Do you REALLY think any/some/every person involved in investigating Haleigh's disappearance think..

IT DOES NOT MATTER

that Ron has those drug arrests?

THAT is the question.

I know what the court records show. I am asking if you think the INVESTIGATORS are even half as dismissive about Ron's arrests on drug charges. You know, the people working on figuring out Haleigh's disappearance?

I do not think for one short moment those investigators are saying, "gee Wally, better disregards those arrests, the dude wasn't convicted".

JMO

I think YOU are too hung up on trying to prove Ron has a record of drug use.
I think LE looked at the charges and the circumstances surrounding them and took it for what it was.
Add that to the fact it took place before the child that is missing was even born and I think it matters even less.

Someone could have you arrested for assault on nothing more than their word- those charges would then be dropped. That doesn't make you a violent offender.

[CANDYKISSES]

th


The illegal drug charges were "nolle presequi". Those were dropped in open court. He does not have any drug convictions.

The charges that he was a drug user, drug dealer and possibly an informant came from Crystal and her family. Oops, I forgot to get Geraldo some credit for these allegations.

Crystal's dad even accused him of not giving the little boy when he was 6 months old a bottle when he "didn't have any teeth" LOL, that was a direct quote. When he presented his statement to the court he didn't even know how to spell his granddaughter's name.

Good Lord, I am glad someone finally started to pick up on this family. Here is what I notice. Each time something comes out about Crystal that explains how Ron wound up with the children, WELLLLLL LO AND BEHOLD HERE COME THE ACCUSATIONS and WILD STORIES. But just like in the court record, when this group is called upon to clarify the accusations it seems to go to TRIPLE or better HEARSAY IMOO. :cursing:

Momma don't feel like getting up to get a child to the doctor, grandpa can't spell his grandchild's name, and nobody could get them from the devil....

Why you say????

They were all lazy and quite content to let the chips fall where they did but for CHILD SUPPORT IMOO. :sneaky:

Butter Bean and Haleigh BOTH DESERVED BETTER IMO, but I can't change their parentage and neither seems fit to raise a stuffed animal in my eyes. But those same eyes see LOVE :wub: in photos and a face that belong to Ron and I am not seeing it in Crystal....just not seeing it. Check out the number of photos of Chloe vs Butter Bean and Haleigh on the myspace. Keep in mind there were a few years of a head start too.

JMO