Michelle Fisher Young case 2/21 thru 2/25 [Archive]

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 03:33 PM

The first time I read the CNN one it did say there was an arrest warrant. Now they have changed it to read "pursuing an arrest warrant." Strange. At any rate, it looks like they are pretty sure they know who did it.

And they cleared Gary Condit pretty early in the investigation. He should not have been having an affair, but in a way I felt bad for him because it wrecked his career...even though he had nothing to do with her death.

Who is "they"????

I'd like to see a link to support your claim he was ever cleared. He is yet another example that proves an affair does not equal guilty of murder.

awareness

02-21-2009, 04:00 PM

JMO that there's more CE that ties Jason to Michelle's murder than there's evidence that Gary Condit killed Chandra. Awesome about the Levy case though, good for her parents, friends & loved ones.

awareness

02-21-2009, 04:43 PM

I believe the GJ will meet this coming Tuesday, Feb 24.

Thanks. I feel pretty good the case will be presented within this year at some point - maybe not now although Id like that, but perhaps when the transition period for Cassidy is over & Meredith has primary physical custody.

JMO/IMO

penguin01

02-21-2009, 04:48 PM

The first time I read the CNN one it did say there was an arrest warrant. Now they have changed it to read "pursuing an arrest warrant." Strange. At any rate, it looks like they are pretty sure they know who did it.

And they cleared Gary Condit pretty early in the investigation. He should not have been having an affair, but in a way I felt bad for him because it wrecked his career...even though he had nothing to do with her death.
Unfortunately they did not clear him. So perhaps now he will finally be cleared.

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 07:48 PM

Unfortunately they did not clear him. So perhaps now he will finally be cleared.

Having the truth come out will hopefully provide closure for both the Levy and Condit families. IIRC, Condit cooperated with authorities in the investigation of Chandra's murder. That caused me to doubt he was involved.

I think if Jason Young had done the same, public opinion would be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And yes, I know he has the right to remain silent. I'm only talking about the impact of that choice on public opinion.

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 08:15 PM

Having the truth come out will hopefully provide closure for both the Levy and Condit families. IIRC, Condit cooperated with authorities in the investigation of Chandra's murder. That caused me to doubt he was involved.

I think if Jason Young had done the same, public opinion would be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And yes, I know he has the right to remain silent. I'm only talking about the impact of that choice on public opinion.

You're kidding, right? Because in reality, the media fueled public opinion Condit was lying and the guy lost his job.

alterEgo©

02-21-2009, 08:25 PM

Having the truth come out will hopefully provide closure for both the Levy and Condit families. IIRC, Condit cooperated with authorities in the investigation of Chandra's murder. That caused me to doubt he was involved.

I think if Jason Young had done the same, public opinion would be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And yes, I know he has the right to remain silent. I'm only talking about the impact of that choice on public opinion.
Yeah, that whole cooperating with LE did Scott Peterson a whole world of good in the court of public opinion. I'm sure it would have done the same for Jason Young.

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 08:29 PM

alterEgo©

02-21-2009, 08:35 PM

No Card, I'm saying that cooperating with LE doesn't generate sympathy in the court of public opinion and cited the Peterson West case as an example.

Lindsey

02-21-2009, 08:37 PM

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 08:37 PM

Condit had an affair with an intern and initially lied about it. That, as much as anything, cost him his job. Apparently his constituents have morals.

Scott Peterson was found guilty - are you drawing comparisons, AE?

Condit did not lie to the public. That's the myth that cost him his job and he turned around and sued for libel and settled out of court.

AE's point is that Scott Peterson cooperated and was found guilty in the court of public opinion before he was found guilty at trial.

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 08:39 PM

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 08:41 PM

No Card, I'm saying that cooperating with LE doesn't generate sympathy in the court of public opinion and cited the Peterson West case as an example.

an excellent example, imo.

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 08:41 PM

No Card, I'm saying that cooperating with LE doesn't generate sympathy in the court of public opinion and cited the Peterson West case as an example.

I disagree, AE. When I first heard about Michelle's murder on the local news, it was reported that Jason was "out of town when the murder occurred." I accepted that, initially, and didn't consider him a suspect.

When that was later clarified, I still didn't automatically consider him a suspect. It wasn't until I heard reports that he refused to speak with LE that I got suspicious. For me, only, if I had heard instead that he was cooperating with LE, as did Jenna Nielsen's husband, I would have been more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

That's all I'm saying.

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 08:44 PM

And now back to Michelle Young case .... :smile:

I wonder if Meredith has moved either of her two housemates out yet so that she can have a pretty little room ready for Cassidy on Wednesday. Or if Linda is flying down from NY, they might just have to stay at a hotel if both housemates aren't moved out yet. IIRC, it's only 3 bedrooms in the house.

I'm sure she has, Lindsey. And if not, I'm sure she has arranged for the housemates (are there 2 - how do you know?) to stay elsewhere for the weekend. It isn't necessary that they be "moved out" - only that they not be present overnight during Cassidy's visit, as I understand it.

And I wouldn't at all be surprised if Linda is coming down for the weekend. Wouldn't you, if you had a granddaughter you couldn't wait to see?

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 08:56 PM

I disagree, AE. When I first heard about Michelle's murder on the local news, it was reported that Jason was "out of town when the murder occurred." I accepted that, initially, and didn't consider him a suspect.

When that was later clarified, I still didn't automatically consider him a suspect. It wasn't until I heard reports that he refused to speak with LE that I got suspicious. For me, only, if I had heard instead that he was cooperating with LE, as did Jenna Nielsen's husband, I would have been more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

That's all I'm saying.

Raven Abaroa cooperated with LE and public opinion is that he was responsible.

Lindsey

02-21-2009, 08:56 PM

Jester

02-21-2009, 09:06 PM

Another example to show that Condit was not a suspect, and that this case is entirely different from the murder of Michelle Young. The only similarity is that both cases are taking time to solve.

"I wouldn't think you would because, clearly, the Washington, D.C., police have made it clear consistently from the beginning that Gary Condit was not even a suspect with regard to the investigation into Chandra Levy's life."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,147930,00.html
Tuesday, February 15, 2005

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 09:07 PM

Item 7 on page 5

LINK (http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/06/4487955/Feb._6,_2009,_child_custody_consent_order.pdf)

Of course I would go for a visit while Cassidy is there. Why the argumentive tone?

I was mostly trying to get back on topic to keep us out of trouble.

You obviously misunderstood the "tone" of my post, Lindsey. I was simply clarifying the terms of the custody agreement and expressing my belief that Linda would be looking forward to seeing Cassidy. IIRC, it has been some months since the three (Linda, Meredith and Cassidy) were together.

Lindsey

02-21-2009, 09:22 PM

< snip > It isn't necessary that they be "moved out" - only that they not be present overnight during Cassidy's visit, as I understand it.

< snip>

After rereading the custody agreement, I think you're right. They have until August 1st to move out but they can't be there while Cassidy is there? But Meredith can hardly decorate a room for Cassidy if the housemates are still living in the rooms. I'm sure she'll want Cassidy to have a lovely bedroom befitting a 5 year old girl. I know I would. :smile:

Cardinal

02-21-2009, 09:34 PM

After rereading the custody agreement, I think you're right. They have until August 1st to move out but they can't be there while Cassidy is there? But Meredith can hardly decorate a room for Cassidy if the housemates are still living in the rooms. I'm sure she'll want Cassidy to have a lovely bedroom befitting a 5 year old girl. I know I would. :smile:

Something tells me that Cassidy will have a lovely bedroom by the time Meredith assumes primary custody. In the meantime, something tells me Cassidy will enjoy her time with her aunt Meredith and grandmother Linda regardless of the room's decorations.

JMO and good night. :seeya:

Jester

02-21-2009, 09:39 PM

Yeah, that whole cooperating with LE did Scott Peterson a whole world of good in the court of public opinion. I'm sure it would have done the same for Jason Young.

I guess when the husband is guilty, it doesn't make that much difference whether he cooperates with the police or not. Scott cooperated, was guilty, and was convicted. Condit cooperated, was not guilty, was never named a suspect, had an alibi, and he's still a free man. Jason has not cooperated, has been named the slayer, is still a suspect 2 years+ after the murder, and will probably be convicted.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-21-2009, 09:39 PM

After rereading the custody agreement, I think you're right. They have until August 1st to move out but they can't be there while Cassidy is there? But Meredith can hardly decorate a room for Cassidy if the housemates are still living in the rooms. I'm sure she'll want Cassidy to have a lovely bedroom befitting a 5 year old girl. I know I would. :smile:

Maybe the hearing on damages for the WDS will solve the problem. If LF get the townhouse in Raleigh, the roommates can move in there. :closedeyes:

BSNBREVARDNC

02-21-2009, 09:41 PM

Jester

02-21-2009, 09:42 PM

And now back to Michelle Young case .... :smile:

I wonder if Meredith has moved either of her two housemates out yet so that she can have a pretty little room ready for Cassidy on Wednesday. Or if Linda is flying down from NY, they might just have to stay at a hotel if both housemates aren't moved out yet. IIRC, it's only 3 bedrooms in the house.

Do you really think Meredith would do anything to compromise the first stage in the transition of Cassidy to her new home? I doubt it. If anyone will be staying in a hotel or with friends, it will be the roommates, not Meredith.

Jester

02-21-2009, 09:50 PM

Good point. It's all about GUILT.:thumbup:

Yup, all about guilt ... and very little to do with public opinion - which is always split pro/con. I'm sure that the investigation goes a little smoother if the immediate family of the victim cooperates, but a lack of cooperation doesn't completely rerail an investigation.

Stellagant

02-21-2009, 09:53 PM

awareness

02-21-2009, 09:59 PM

fyi: Jason hasn't been arrested.

I'd think Jester is aware of that. Jester's post didn't say Jason had been arrested. It was clearly their opinion they think Jason will be convicted in the future. The rest of the facts (not cooperated, named having slayed Michelle & Rylan, still a suspect 2+ years later) are true.

JMO/IMO

Jester

02-21-2009, 10:05 PM

Lindsey

02-21-2009, 10:38 PM

Do you really think Meredith would do anything to compromise the first stage in the transition of Cassidy to her new home? I doubt it. If anyone will be staying in a hotel or with friends, it will be the roommates, not Meredith.

No. I was talking about the housemates, not Meredith. Since at least one of the housemates is a long time (school) friend of Meredith's, I'm sure she is tickled pink for Meredith and will do whatever she needs to for Cassidy's visit. Probably the same can be said for the second woman but I don't think they go as far back. Not sure.

IMO

Jester

02-21-2009, 10:41 PM

No. I was talking about the housemates, not Meredith. Since at least one of the housemates is a long time (school) friend of Meredith's, I'm sure she is tickled pink for Meredith and will do whatever she needs to for Cassidy's visit. Probably the same can be said for the second woman but I don't think they go as far back. Not sure.

IMO

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I completely agree. Meredith's roommates/friends will do everything they can to make Cassidy's transition as smooth as possible.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 12:43 AM

I'd think Jester is aware of that. Jester's post didn't say Jason had been arrested. It was clearly their opinion they think Jason will be convicted in the future. The rest of the facts (not cooperated, named having slayed Michelle & Rylan, still a suspect 2+ years later) are true.

JMO/IMO

It's not established fact that Jason is now guilty of murder and that is the part I responded to. He was named slayer in civil, not criminal court. Both of you seem to have trouble following the discussion.

Originally Posted by Jester
I guess when the husband is guilty, it doesn't make that much difference whether he cooperates with the police or not. Scott cooperated, was guilty, and was convicted. Condit cooperated, was not guilty, was never named a suspect, had an alibi, and he's still a free man. Jason has not cooperated, has been named the slayer, is still a suspect 2 years+ after the murder, and will probably be convicted.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 12:51 AM

OT:
It now says an arrest is "imminent"..
Where have I heard that word before?
:wink:
But,this is good news , and I must confess, I also thought Condit was hiding something...
I followed this case when I first got my computer and I thought I was a super sluether!!
That seems like such a long time ago, now with all these cases. :(
Chandra, Cherica,Danielle, Samantha, Laci, Bonnie, Nicole, Lori, Rachel, etc.
There was also some news on Rae Carruth I saw the other day,looks like the ex-Carolina Panther gained some weight since he has been eating prison food, and he has had 4 infractions since being incarcerated
I hope this will give the Levy's some closure, they carried themselves with class, grace and dignity while suffering the loss of their daughter.
:rose: Chandra.
I will be glad when the word "imminent" is used in the case of Michelle Young and really has meaning this time.

Kat

Just so I am not too off topic, Carruth is in prison in NC..

I'm puzzled how Carruth is connected to Michelle's murder or Chandra's?

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 12:54 AM

I'm puzzled how Carruth is connected to Michelle's murder or Chandra's?

Don't ask me.
I was talking about all the murders since Chandra Levy, and then I remembered this case, the Michelle Young case from North Carolina, and then I thought of Rae Carruth, and
then somehow I got off track.
It won't happen again. :blush:

:patriot:

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 12:58 AM

Off track and wayyyyy into left field. Lol

I apologize .
Oh, and the word imminent threw me off too.
:wink:
Kat

PS..could you give me a chance to edit my posts?
:)

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 01:02 AM

No. I was talking about the housemates, not Meredith. Since at least one of the housemates is a long time (school) friend of Meredith's, I'm sure she is tickled pink for Meredith and will do whatever she needs to for Cassidy's visit. Probably the same can be said for the second woman but I don't think they go as far back. Not sure.

IMO

Maybe not quite tickled pink if they are paying rent and have to sleep elsewhere.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 01:04 AM

I apologize .
Oh, and the word imminent threw me off too.
:wink:
Kat

PS..could you give me a chance to edit my posts?
:)

ah, yes, it's been imminent for over two years now.

Jester

02-22-2009, 01:45 AM

It's not established fact that Jason is now guilty of murder and that is the part I responded to. He was named slayer in civil, not criminal court. Both of you seem to have trouble following the discussion.

Originally Posted by Jester
I guess when the husband is guilty, it doesn't make that much difference whether he cooperates with the police or not. Scott cooperated, was guilty, and was convicted. Condit cooperated, was not guilty, was never named a suspect, had an alibi, and he's still a free man. Jason has not cooperated, has been named the slayer, is still a suspect 2 years+ after the murder, and will probably be convicted.

I'm sure you noticed the part where I wrote "is still a suspect ... will probably be convicted", with probably being the operative word. I stand by my opinion.

annalyzer

02-22-2009, 05:06 AM

[QUOTE=Cardinal;12814085]Condit had an affair with an intern and initially lied about it. That, as much as anything, cost him his job. Apparently his constituents have morals. ~snip

[QUOTE]

Well said Cardinal. I may borrow your phrase for a discussion elsewhere. :thumbup:

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 12:36 PM

ah, yes, it's been imminent for over two years now.

Very imminent. Beyond imminent.:rolleyes:

I was thinking if anyone in Michelle and Jason's crowd ever really suspected he had anything to do with her murder, wouldn't someone confront him at some time?

Pull him away, and say something like:
"Look, I know you aren't supposed to talk about any of this, but you are my friend, Michelle was our friend, and you need to be straight up about this."

I was looking at some of my friends last nite while we were out and if one of us ended up murdered, I know there would be heck to pay.
There would be a lot of questions, and there sure as well be a lot of answers.

So, that has me wondering, why no one seems to have asked Jason anything. Has everyone just kept their suspicions, if they have any, to themselves?
And, what about Michelle's friends, not counting MM of course, why haven't any of them been in Jason's face.?

Kat

Jester

02-22-2009, 12:52 PM

Very imminent. Beyond imminent.:rolleyes:

I was thinking if anyone in Michelle and Jason's crowd ever really suspected he had anything to do with her murder, wouldn't someone confront him at some time?

Pull him away, and say something like:
"Look, I know you aren't supposed to talk about any of this, but you are my friend, Michelle was our friend, and you need to be straight up about this."

I was looking at some of my friends last nite while we were out and if one of us ended up murdered, I know there would be heck to pay.
There would be a lot of questions, and there sure as well be a lot of answers.

So, that has me wondering, why no one seems to have asked Jason anything. Has everyone just kept their suspicions, if they have any, to themselves?
And, what about Michelle's friends, not counting MM of course, why haven't any of them been in Jason's face.?

Kat

Why would you say that no one has asked Jason whether he was involved in Michelle's murder? You are basing your comment on absolutely nothing.

We know that Alan asked Jason about his adulterous relationship with Michelle Money. Jason stated that his adulterous relationship was a factor in the murder investigation, and subsequently refused to answer any questions. According to recent court documents, Michelle's family has accused Jason of murder, and he has had ample opportunity to deny the accusations. He has chosen to answer the accusations with silence, which is an answer in itself. It is simply not true that no one has "been in Jason's face", so to speak, regarding his participation in the murder.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 01:04 PM

Why would you say that no one has asked Jason whether he was involved in Michelle's murder? You are basing your comment on absolutely nothing.

We know that Alan asked Jason about his adulterous relationship with Michelle Money. Jason stated that his adulterous relationship was a factor in the murder investigation, and subsequently refused to answer any questions. According to recent court documents, Michelle's family has accused Jason of murder, and he has had ample opportunity to deny the accusations. He has chosen to answer the accusations with silence, which is an answer in itself. It is simply not true that no one has "been in Jason's face", so to speak, regarding his participation in
the murder.

And, that is why I was asking the question, because obviously I don't know the answer......
But, I was talking about Michelle and Jason's friends, cause it was posted that they were always having parties, get togethers, etc.
I wonder what happened the weekend of the homecoming game, with the tailgate party planned, etc?
I imagine everything was cancelled and everyone was in shock.
I was just wondering if there was ever a little one-on-one with Jason and a friend, that's all.
Any friend.

Kat

Jester

02-22-2009, 01:19 PM

And, that is why I was asking the question, because obviously I don't know the answer......
But, I was talking about Michelle and Jason's friends, cause it was posted that they were always having parties, get togethers, etc.
I wonder what happened the weekend of the homecoming game, with the tailgate party planned, etc?
I imagine everything was cancelled and everyone was in shock.
I was just wondering if there was ever a little one-on-one with Jason and a friend, that's all.
Any friend.

Kat

Jason's neighbor has stated that he has not, and will not, ask Jason the direct question of whether he was involved in the murder. It is his opinion that it would be offensive to ask the question. I don't feel like looking at Alan's statement right now, but I recall something about Pat also being told that all questions about the murder were off limits per legal advice. Pat must have demanded an answer about the use of adult medication on a three year old child, as we have read about Pat's discussions with Jason. Apparently he did give Cassidy adult drugs. Kim asked Jason, in an email, to speak up. Jason claimed his lawyer told him to say nothing. As for friends asking Jason whether he murdered Michelle, I think we know his answer. He would either be silent, or he would claim his lawyer told him to be mute. Given what we know about several family members asking Jason about his involvement, it's probably fair to assume that a few close friends have asked the same questions. That is, it is incorrect and unfair to assume that no one has "been in his face" about his involvement in the murder.

If you are asking whether people canceled all plans immediately after the murder because they suspected Jason was guilty, anyone following the case from the beginning would know that Jason's friends and family initially assumed him to be innocent. It was only after details of the murder were released that people began to question his innocence.

im4justice

02-22-2009, 01:37 PM

Lindsey

02-22-2009, 02:10 PM

Maybe a one on one conversation did happen with a Lisa.??? Isn't that who Jason referred AF to if he wanted info about the MM relationship?Isn't that the named mentioned in the search warrent ? A Lisa had a conversation with Pat Young that made here feel a little better about things?
I'm wondering who Lisa is. Don't you?

Was Lisa the other friend (and sorority sister) in Florida that was helping MM make a scrapbook of Michelle's pics when LE went to MM's house? I don't remember her full name without looking it up.

im4justice

02-22-2009, 02:39 PM

Was Lisa the other friend (and sorority sister) in Florida that was helping MM make a scrapbook of Michelle's pics when LE went to MM's house? I don't remember her full name without looking it up.
The scrapbook was to be made from pics taken off the hard drive of an Elizabeth Schroff. So I still wonder who is Lisa?
I also noticed that initial warrants listed as seized a confirmation of reservations for a Hampton Inn for early Sept 2006
I wonder which Hampton Inn that was ?

Lindsey

02-22-2009, 03:29 PM

The scrapbook was to be made from pics taken off the hard drive of an Elizabeth Schroff. So I still wonder who is Lisa?
I also noticed that initial warrants listed as seized a confirmation of reservations for a Hampton Inn for early Sept 2006
I wonder which Hampton Inn that was ?

Good question for which HI in Sept. Did Jason go to FL in Sept or only in Oct? I believe he went to Denver(?) sometime in October? But I don't remember the name of the hotel he stayed in there.

I guess I don't know who Lisa is either.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 04:00 PM

Maybe the hearing on damages for the WDS will solve the problem. If LF get the townhouse in Raleigh, the roommates can move in there. :closedeyes:According to probate law, Jason retains his 50% ownership of the property until his death and then it goes to Michelle's estate.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 04:03 PM

I guess when the husband is guilty, it doesn't make that much difference whether he cooperates with the police or not. Scott cooperated, was guilty, and was convicted. Condit cooperated, was not guilty, was never named a suspect, had an alibi, and he's still a free man. Jason has not cooperated, has been named the slayer, is still a suspect 2 years+ after the murder, and will probably be convicted.
Ditto on if the husband is innocent.

You are putting the cart before the horse - there must first be an indictment and an arrest before any conviction can occur.

Speaking of which, I'm still wondering why Spivey hasn't arrested Jason.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 04:24 PM

According to probate law, Jason retains his 50% ownership of the property until his death and then it goes to Michelle's estate.

I was referring to LF possibly getting the townhouse as part of the WDS. If JY doesn’t show up to challenge the damages, I bet LF will get anything she asks for. IMO

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 04:25 PM

Ditto on if the husband is innocent.

You are putting the cart before the horse - there must first be an indictment and an arrest before any conviction can occur.

Speaking of which, I'm still wondering why Spivey hasn't arrested Jason.

Hadn’t someone claimed that Spivey was no longer on the case.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 05:16 PM

I was referring to LF possibly getting the townhouse as part of the WDS. If JY doesn’t show up to challenge the damages, I bet LF will get anything she asks for. IMOIt doesn't matter if he fights or not, Linda can't get his half of the property he retains per law.

§ 31A‑6. Survivorship property.
(a) Where the slayer and the decedent hold property with right of survivorship as joint tenants, joint owners, joint obligees or otherwise, the decedent's share thereof shall pass immediately upon the death of the decedent to his estate, and the slayer's share shall be held by the slayer during his lifetime and at his death shall pass to the estate of the decedent. During his lifetime, the slayer shall have the right to the income from his share of the property subject to the rights of creditors of the slayer.
(b) Where three or more persons, including the slayer and the decedent, hold property with right of survivorship as joint tenants, joint owners, joint obligees or otherwise, the portion of the decedent's share which would have accrued to the slayer as a result of the death of the decedent shall pass to the estate of the decedent. If the slayer becomes the final survivor, one half of the property then held by the slayer shall pass immediately to the estate of the decedent, and upon the death of the slayer the remaining interest of the slayer shall pass to the estate of the decedent. During his lifetime the slayer shall have the right to the income from his share of the property subject to the rights of creditors of the slayer. (1961, c. 210, s. 1.)

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_31a/gs_31a-6.html

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 05:17 PM

Hadn’t someone claimed that Spivey was no longer on the case.
I have no idea. If he's no longer on the case, he had over a year to arrest Jason.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 05:30 PM

It doesn't matter if he fights or not, Linda can't get his half of the property he retains per law.
snipped

Time and time again we have been told that this or that will or will not happen in the WDS and the custody suit. I’ve seen so many legal "decrees" on here that I should have learned my lesson by now. And the lesson is…..Just wait and see what the judge says. IMO:closedeyes:

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 05:37 PM

Time and time again we have been told that this or that will or will not happen in the WDS and the custody suit. I’ve seen so many legal "decrees" on here that I should have learned my lesson by now. And the lesson is…..Just wait and see what the judge says. IMO:closedeyes:
I was told time and time again that saying a parent had a constitutioanlly protected status was wrong because the constitution didn't say that. However, I was right on the money. I was also right on the money about other issues based in law.

I posted the statute backing my assertion (not a decree :rolleyes: ). Is there a law or ruling to support your argument that I am wrong?

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 05:40 PM

I have no idea. If he's no longer on the case, he had over a year to arrest Jason.

What length of time should pass before the cops stop working on a murder case? I’m really perplexed by this. Certain people keep posting the length of time that the investigation has been active. Well when should the investigation stop if not at the time of arrest? Should cases halt after 2 years, 2 ½. 3? What about cold cases? Should they never be worked? I’m sorry but I’m missing the point about the amount of time that has gone into the investigation. If it was my love one I would want them to work the case until the murder was brought to justice. I don’t think a premature arrest would help anyone. When the cops make their arrest, I’m sure it will be because the have their man and they are sure that they have all the evidence they need. IMO

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 05:48 PM

I was told time and time again that saying a parent had a constitutioanlly protected status was wrong because the constitution didn't say that. However, I was right on the money. I was also right on the money about other issues based in law.

I posted the statute backing my assertion (not a decree :rolleyes: ). Is there a law or ruling to support your argument that I am wrong?

Oh, I’m sorry. I just don’t believe everything that I read on an opinion board. IMO.

Once again, didn’t mean to upset you. Have a nice weekend (At least what’s left of it)

BTW, 135 murders and only 4 covered by the local media? Man, that’s unbelievable. What was the media covering? UFO’s, local residents running for higher office, etc. Sometimes it crazy as to what the media will and will not cover.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 06:03 PM

What length of time should pass before the cops stop working on a murder case? I’m really perplexed by this. Certain people keep posting the length of time that the investigation has been active. Well when should the investigation stop if not at the time of arrest? Should cases halt after 2 years, 2 ½. 3? What about cold cases? Should they never be worked? I’m sorry but I’m missing the point about the amount of time that has gone into the investigation. If it was my love one I would want them to work the case until the murder was brought to justice. I don’t think a premature arrest would help anyone. When the cops make their arrest, I’m sure it will be because the have their man and they are sure that they have all the evidence they need. IMO
Cases become cold because LE runs out of leads to investigate. How long that takes varies from case to case.

I'm not sure what spurned your rant - all I said was that Spivey, who is of the opinion that Jason murdered his pregnant, hasn't arrested him.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 06:07 PM

What length of time should pass before the cops stop working on a murder case? I’m really perplexed by this. Certain people keep posting the length of time that the investigation has been active. Well when should the investigation stop if not at the time of arrest? Should cases halt after 2 years, 2 ½. 3? What about cold cases? Should they never be worked? I’m sorry but I’m missing the point about the amount of time that has gone into the investigation. If it was my love one I would want them to work the case until the murder was brought to justice. I don’t think a premature arrest would help anyone. When the cops make their arrest, I’m sure it will be because the have their man and they are sure that they have all the evidence they need. IMO

The length of time is rebuttal to posts that say the arrest is coming, is imminent, right around the corner, any second, minute, hour.

And then there are the i's, t's and tiny little ducks..

For over 2 years that has been posted, but, when I or anyone give a time count to contradict those promised predictions, then no one wants to be reminded.

The correct response in following a case, is that no one, no one really knows what is going on or when anything is going down.

I doubt L E is going to tip a poster before the arrest, any arrest, is made, don't you?

Kat

Barbara2

02-22-2009, 06:07 PM

Cases become cold because LE runs out of leads to investigate. How long that takes varies from case to case.

I'm not sure what spurned your rant - all I said was that Spivey, who is of the opinion that Jason murdered his pregnant, hasn't arrested him.

I believe LE and the DA work together. It is very possible that the lack of an arrest has more to do with the DA than with Spivey. JMO

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 06:09 PM

Oh, I’m sorry. I just don’t believe everything that I read on an opinion board. IMO.

Once again, didn’t mean to upset you. Have a nice weekend (At least what’s left of it)

BTW, 135 murders and only 4 covered by the local media? Man, that’s unbelievable. What was the media covering? UFO’s, local residents running for higher office, etc. Sometimes it crazy as to what the media will and will not cover.
Well gosh, I never asked you to believe everything you read on a board. I did, however, provide to links to back my statements of facts and to support my position.

You didn't upset me, not sure where you got that idea, but thanks for caring!

Yeah, only 4 covered by the media out of 135. There were only 13 murders in Raleigh, NC in 2006. Did all of them make the paper? I have no idea what criteria the media uses to deem a murder 'newsworthy'. Every murder victim's case should get the same coverage as this one.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 06:14 PM

snipped

Yeah, only 4 covered by the media out of 135. There were only 13 murders in Raleigh, NC in 2006. Did all of them make the paper? I have no idea what criteria the media uses to deem a murder 'newsworthy'. Every murder victim's case should get the same coverage as this one.

Ditto

BTW...Is the city Chicago?
Actually Chicago probably had more.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 06:17 PM

I believe LE and the DA work together. It is very possible that the lack of an arrest has more to do with the DA than with Spivey. JMOCould be.....

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 06:22 PM

Ditto

BTW...Is the city Chicago?

I would rather not say.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 06:34 PM

Could be.....

Hi AE!!
And, before any arrest is made,
the different shoe sizes have to be explained.

Michelle's rings or any other jewelry missing
has to be accounted for, and most of all
someone should answer why
the case has taken so long.

This case should have been tried already
with the killer (s) sentenced and serving their
time.

I wouldn't count on the DP,as, they didn't go
after it in the Cooper case .

Kat

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 06:55 PM

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 06:57 PM

Hi AE!!
And, before any arrest is made,
the different shoe sizes have to be explained.

Michelle's rings or any other jewelry missing
has to be accounted for, and most of all
someone should answer why
the case has taken so long.

This case should have been tried already
with the killer (s) sentenced and serving their
time.

I wouldn't count on the DP,as, they didn't go
after it in the Cooper case .

Kat

I assume that this is your opinion and not being stated as fact? (Except for the part about the Cooper guy).

BTW Chicago (509) had more murders than there were Us Military personnel killed in Iraq (319) in 2008. Cleveland had 135 murders.

Barbara2

02-22-2009, 07:00 PM

Hi AE!!
And, before any arrest is made,
the different shoe sizes have to be explained.

Michelle's rings or any other jewelry missing
has to be accounted for, and most of all
someone should answer why
the case has taken so long.

This case should have been tried already
with the killer (s) sentenced and serving their
time.

I wouldn't count on the DP,as, they didn't go
after it in the Cooper case .

Kat

None of that has to be explained, IMO. An arrest can be made without answering all of your questions. AIMO.

awareness

02-22-2009, 07:04 PM

Funny how the "time" issue is prevalent in the thread lately. We get it, Jason still has not been arrested. Not a big deal, we're confident LE is still working on it and will be arresting him soon. Not losing sleep over it, nor do we feel they're doing a "bad job" or explain why it took so long. Im sure when it finally happens, we'll be able to see why it took as long as it did.
JMO/IMO

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 07:04 PM

What about the statute AE linked do you believe the Judge will ignore?

I believe that there are all sorts of statutes that apply at certain times and in certain situations. I believe that there are all sorts of conditions that may or may not apply, fine print, repealed statures and portions of statutes, etc.

SO having said that, I believe that I will wait and see what the Judge says. After all, I believe that you pointed out that the tapes in The SP case (tapes made by AF) may have been illegal under California law. However, they were still admitted, right? That’s why it’s probably best to wait and see what that judge does. IMO

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 07:08 PM

Hi AE!!
And, before any arrest is made,
the different shoe sizes have to be explained.

Michelle's rings or any other jewelry missing
has to be accounted for, and most of all
someone should answer why
the case has taken so long.

This case should have been tried already
with the killer (s) sentenced and serving their
time.

I wouldn't count on the DP,as, they didn't go
after it in the Cooper case .

Kat

The case has taken a long time because it's "complicated."

imo, The death penalty will be on the table because there is evidence
(2 different shoeprints) that two people were involved. It (DP) provides leverage for a plea deal.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 07:17 PM

I believe that there are all sorts of statutes that apply at certain times and in certain situations. I believe that there are all sorts of conditions that may or may not apply, fine print, repealed statures and portions of statutes, etc.

SO having said that, I believe that I will wait and see what the Judge says. After all, I believe that you pointed out that the tapes in The SP case (tapes made by AF) may have been illegal under California law. However, they were still admitted, right? That’s why it’s probably best to wait and see what that judge does. IMO

The judge has to apply the statute. He has no choice in the matter. If you want to engage in wishful thinking that he won't apply the statute, that's fine.

You are also comparing apples to oranges. Amber Frey's tapes were illegal but if Geragos didn't challenge them on that basis, and I don't believe he did, they could be admitted.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 07:20 PM

The case has taken a long time because it's "complicated."

imo, The death penalty will be on the table because there is evidence
(2 different shoeprints) that two people were involved. It (DP) provides leverage for a plea deal.

That’s not what the statute says IMO:

NORTH CAROLINA'S DEATH SENTENCING SYSTEM
The General Assembly Has Provided That ONLY Defendants:
(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder;
(2) With A Separate Finding of At Least ONE "Statutory Aggravating Circumstance"
Are ELIGIBLE for Capital Punishment—N.C.G.S.§ 15A-2000(a)(1)
Any One of Eleven "STATUORY AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES" Can Make a Homicide Sufficiently Serious To Warrant A Death Sentence, If A Jury So Finds. They are:
(1) That the Defendant Was "Lawfully Incarcerated" When the Homicide Occurred;
(2) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of Another Capital Felony;
(3) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of A Violent Felony;
(4) That the Homicide Was Committed to Avoid or Prevent an Arrest, or to Escape From Custody;
(5) That the Homicide Was Committed During Another Homicide, Robbery, Rape, Arson, Burglary, Kidnapping, etc.
(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"
(7) That The Homicide Was Committed To Disrupt or Hinder Government or Law Enforcement;
(8) That the Homicide Victim was a Law Enforcement Officer, Judge, Prosecutor, Etc.;
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel;
(10) That The Defendant "Knowingly Created A Great Risk of Death To More Than One Person By Use of a Hazardous Weapon or Devise;
(11) That The Homicide Was Part of a Course of Conduct Involving A Crime of Violence Against Another Person.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 07:23 PM

The judge has to apply the statute. He has no choice in the matter. If you want to engage in wishful thinking that he won't apply the statute, that's fine.

You are also comparing apples to oranges. Amber Frey's tapes were illegal but if Geragos didn't challenge them on that basis, and I don't believe he did, they could be admitted.

OK, ok, fine. Lets just wait and see what the judge says.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 07:25 PM

That’s not what the statute says IMO:

NORTH CAROLINA'S DEATH SENTENCING SYSTEM
The General Assembly Has Provided That ONLY Defendants:
(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder;
(2) With A Separate Finding of At Least ONE "Statutory Aggravating Circumstance"
Are ELIGIBLE for Capital Punishment—N.C.G.S.§ 15A-2000(a)(1)
Any One of Eleven "STATUORY AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES" Can Make a Homicide Sufficiently Serious To Warrant A Death Sentence, If A Jury So Finds. They are:
(1) That the Defendant Was "Lawfully Incarcerated" When the Homicide Occurred;
(2) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of Another Capital Felony;
(3) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of A Violent Felony;
(4) That the Homicide Was Committed to Avoid or Prevent an Arrest, or to Escape From Custody;
(5) That the Homicide Was Committed During Another Homicide, Robbery, Rape, Arson, Burglary, Kidnapping, etc.
(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"
(7) That The Homicide Was Committed To Disrupt or Hinder Government or Law Enforcement;
(8) That the Homicide Victim was a Law Enforcement Officer, Judge, Prosecutor, Etc.;
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel;
(10) That The Defendant "Knowingly Created A Great Risk of Death To More Than One Person By Use of a Hazardous Weapon or Devise;
(11) That The Homicide Was Part of a Course of Conduct Involving A Crime of Violence Against Another Person.

I know what the statute says and I'm pretty certain #5 applies to this case because LE has searched for missing jewelry.

(5) That the Homicide Was Committed During Another Homicide, Robbery, Rape, Arson, Burglary, Kidnapping, etc.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 07:32 PM

The case has taken a long time because it's "complicated."

imo, The death penalty will be on the table because there is evidence
(2 different shoeprints) that two people were involved. It (DP) provides leverage for a plea deal.

This was the reason you gave for the DP being on the table. It is not on the list for mitigating factors for NC.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 07:43 PM

OK, ok, fine. Lets just wait and see what the judge says.

So, why do you think the DP was not sought in the Cooper case?
Murder= murder
Death= death
Loss of a loved one should not prevail for one person more than another.
Nancy Cooper wasn't any less brutally murdered than Michelle.

Kat

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 07:47 PM

So, why do you think the DP was not sought in the Cooper case?
Murder= murder
Death= death
Loss of a loved one should not prevail for one person more than another.
Nancy Cooper wasn't any less brutally murdered than Michelle.

Kat

I think two different issues are getting mixed up. I was saying that I would wait and see if LF got the townhouse as part of the WDS damages.

I then pointed out that there is a set list of circumstances where the DP can be used in NC. Two people being involved in a murder is not one of them.

Sorry for the confusion.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 08:03 PM

This was the reason you gave for the DP being on the table. It is not on the list for mitigating factors for NC.

I'm pretty sure "missing jewelry" is covered under #5 and the DP will be used as leverage because there is also evidence (shoeprints) two people were involved.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 08:05 PM

I think two different issues are getting mixed up. I was saying that I would wait and see if LF got the townhouse as part of the WDS damages.

I then pointed out that there is a set list of circumstances where the DP can be used in NC. Two people being involved in a murder is not one of them.

Sorry for the confusion.

Absolutely, no problem....:)

There is not a reason in the world why people can't get along on an message board !!
I have never understood those that can't.

But, I have wondered why the MY case seemed more important than the NC case?
The last post on NC was Dec. 08.
Maybe cause there has been an arrest in that case?
Or, maybe this case still has some intrigue as to who and why.
:shrug:

Kat

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 08:10 PM

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 08:22 PM

I think there might be an absence of aggravating circumstances in Nancy's murder.

I don't know.
Nancy's body was found dumped in a ditch/road/pond by someone else.
Michelle was found in her home.
Not sure if it was determined where NC was killed.
We know where Michelle was murdered.

So, how do you (not you, personally) determine which is worse, unless you throw in the cirumstance of CY being in the home?

I think both murders deserve the same outcome..same penalty, same justice, same sentencing.
Same punishment.
One's life is no more important than the other.

Kat

BSNBREVARDNC

02-22-2009, 08:28 PM

Absolutely, no problem....:)

There is not a reason in the world why people can't get along on an message board !!
I have never understood those that can't.

But, I have wondered why the MY case seemed more important than the NC case?
The last post on NC was Dec. 08.
Maybe cause there has been an arrest in that case?
Or, maybe this case still has some intrigue as to who and why.
:shrug:

Kat

My guilty little secret is that some of the people I disagree with most are also the ones I find the most interesting.

I think the Cooper case will pick up when it goes to trial. The Young case had the added aspect of the pregnancy and the body being found in the home. That may have made some difference in the attention that it is given.

Stellagant

02-22-2009, 08:38 PM

I don't know.
Nancy's body was found dumped in a ditch/road/pond by someone else.
Michelle was found in her home.
Not sure if it was determined where NC was killed.
We know where Michelle was murdered.

So, how do you (not you, personally) determine which is worse, unless you throw in the cirumstance of CY being in the home?

I think both murders deserve the same outcome..same penalty, same justice, same sentencing.
Same punishment.
One's life is no more important than the other.

Kat

It has everything to do with the aggravating circumstances listed in the statute. If the Cooper murder doesn't have one of the eleven circumstances then the DA can't pursue the DP.

jerry50

02-22-2009, 09:03 PM

I don't know.
Nancy's body was found dumped in a ditch/road/pond by someone else.
Michelle was found in her home.
Not sure if it was determined where NC was killed.
We know where Michelle was murdered.

So, how do you (not you, personally) determine which is worse, unless you throw in the cirumstance of CY being in the home?

I think both murders deserve the same outcome..same penalty, same justice, same sentencing.
Same punishment.
One's life is no more important than the other.

Kat

From what I remember the Nancy Cooper murder was the result of an act of rage that happened probably during an argument. THere was no premeditation.
Michelle's murder was planned which makes it more dispicable.
Whether the DA seeks the DP against JY or not, his decision will include the opinion of Linda Fisher. That is basic operating procedure.

jerry50

02-22-2009, 09:07 PM

It doesn't matter if he fights or not, Linda can't get his half of the property he retains per law.

snipped....... During his lifetime, the slayer shall have the right to the income from his share of the property subject to the rights of creditors of the slayer.snipped.......

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_31a/gs_31a-6.html

Doesn't this mean that once Linda receives her expected monetary award from the WDS that she will be one of the slayer's creditors?

Lindsey

02-22-2009, 09:39 PM

[snipped]

The point of a message board is to have varying opinions and heated discussion.

IMO, that is not allowed on this thread. Those of us who are what you call "insiders" and believe Jason is guilty, have been banned over and over for voicing our opinions and trying desperately to share our knowledge. its not possible for all posters do get along on a message board, but all opinions should be allowed, not just the opinion of one or two posters.

JMO

IMO, the point of a message board is to have varying opinions and respectful discussion.

A person shouldn't be attacked or ridiculed because their opinion is different. Or if they haven't come to a firm conclusion yet. I've never known anyone to open their mind to new ideas while under attack.

All JMO

Lindsey

02-22-2009, 09:41 PM

Doesn't this mean that once Linda receives her expected monetary award from the WDS that she will be one of the slayer's creditors?

I think you're right.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 10:25 PM

My guilty little secret is that some of the people I disagree with most are also the ones I find the most interesting.

I think the Cooper case will pick up when it goes to trial. The Young case had the added aspect of the pregnancy and the body being found in the home. That may have made some difference in the attention that it is given.

That is true, BS.
I hate calling you that, :)

But, also the media picks and chooses what stories are the most important.
I hate to say this, but after each murder, especially the Peterson west case, where we had constant coverage, maybe the shock of these murders have somehow worn off.

I hope that it is not true, and I hope you are right about the Cooper case becoming as focused on as this case.

Although,even in this case, I think it would have been bigger, had it stayed in the news more if it had info coming out sooner.
JMO

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 10:27 PM

It has everything to do with the aggravating circumstances listed in the statute. If the Cooper murder doesn't have one of the eleven circumstances then the DA can't pursue the DP.

Thank you, !!

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 10:31 PM

From what I remember the Nancy Cooper murder was the result of an act of rage that happened probably during an argument. THere was no premeditation.
Michelle's murder was planned which makes it more dispicable.
Whether the DA seeks the DP against JY or not, his decision will include the opinion of Linda Fisher. That is basic operating procedure.

Of course, the family's feelings are taken into consideration in the penalty phase.

They are called impact statements, right?

But, many many times, the family does not care, as long as justice is served.
And, not to go off topic, look at the Barber case.
Jury recommended DP.
Judge overturned it.
I will never understand that.

Kat

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 10:33 PM

Doesn't this mean that once Linda receives her expected monetary award from the WDS that she will be one of the slayer's creditors?
Yup. But the argument wasn't regarding attaching to rental income, the argument was that Jason wouldn't be able to move into the property because Linda would 'get it' in the WDS.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 10:40 PM

IMO, the point of a message board is to have varying opinions and respectful discussion.

A person shouldn't be attacked or ridiculed because their opinion is different. Or if they haven't come to a firm conclusion yet. I've never known anyone to open their mind to new ideas while under attack.

All JMO

Hi Lin,
Respect is key!

:)
Kat

Barbara2

02-22-2009, 10:41 PM

Hi Lin,
Respect is key!

:)
Kat

I hope you really mean that and you are turning over a new leaf. :patriot:

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 10:47 PM

jerry50

02-22-2009, 10:55 PM

Of course, the family's feelings are taken into consideration in the penalty phase.

They are called impact statements, right?

But, many many times, the family does not care, as long as justice is served.
And, not to go off topic, look at the Barber case.
Jury recommended DP.
Judge overturned it.
I will never understand that.

Kat

Actually this has nothing to do with the penalty phase. The DA checks with the victim's family, especially one who has been interested in helping LE find the killer, and gets their thoughts on pursuing the death penalty.
Linda and Meredith will have JY's life in their hands if the DA would like to go for the death penalty in this case.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 10:58 PM

[snipped]

The point of a message board is to have varying opinions and heated discussion.

IMO, that is not allowed on this thread. Those of us who are what you call "insiders" and believe Jason is guilty, have been banned over and over for voicing our opinions and trying desperately to share our knowledge. its not possible for all posters do get along on a message board, but all opinions should be allowed, not just the opinion of one or two posters.

JMO

Oh please. No one is banned for expressing their opinion UNLESS they violated TOS in doing so.

Kat4Eagles

02-22-2009, 11:12 PM

Actually this has nothing to do with the penalty phase. The DA checks with the victim's family, especially one who has been interested in helping LE find the killer, and gets their thoughts on pursuing the death penalty.
Linda and Meredith will have JY's life in their hands if the DA would like to go for the death penalty in this case.

Getting a little ahead on the status of this case.
You need an arrest, and,a conviction first.
This case, so far, leaves me with many doubts.
Kat

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 11:17 PM

Actually this has nothing to do with the penalty phase. The DA checks with the victim's family, especially one who has been interested in helping LE find the killer, and gets their thoughts on pursuing the death penalty.
Linda and Meredith will have JY's life in their hands if the DA would like to go for the death penalty in this case.
Well kinda...first the DA has to be able to prove aggravating circumstances in order to seek the DP. If they can, then they may ask the family's input.

Jester

02-22-2009, 11:26 PM

Which aggravating factor applies in this case.

I think point number 1 is a distinct possibility.

alterEgo©

02-22-2009, 11:29 PM

I think point number 1 is a distinct possibility.:confused:1) That the Defendant Was "Lawfully Incarcerated" When the Homicide Occurred:confused:

Jester

02-22-2009, 11:36 PM

:confused:1) That the Defendant Was "Lawfully Incarcerated" When the Homicide Occurred:confused:

That’s not what the statute says IMO:

NORTH CAROLINA'S DEATH SENTENCING SYSTEM
The General Assembly Has Provided That ONLY Defendants:
(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder;
(2) With A Separate Finding of At Least ONE "Statutory Aggravating Circumstance"
Are ELIGIBLE for Capital Punishment—N.C.G.S.§ 15A-2000(a)(1)
Any One of Eleven "STATUORY AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES" Can Make a Homicide Sufficiently Serious To Warrant A Death Sentence, If A Jury So Finds. They are:
(1) That the Defendant Was "Lawfully Incarcerated" When the Homicide Occurred;
(2) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of Another Capital Felony;
(3) That the Defendant Had Previously Been Convicted of A Violent Felony;
(4) That the Homicide Was Committed to Avoid or Prevent an Arrest, or to Escape From Custody;
(5) That the Homicide Was Committed During Another Homicide, Robbery, Rape, Arson, Burglary, Kidnapping, etc.
(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"
(7) That The Homicide Was Committed To Disrupt or Hinder Government or Law Enforcement;
(8) That the Homicide Victim was a Law Enforcement Officer, Judge, Prosecutor, Etc.;
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel;
(10) That The Defendant "Knowingly Created A Great Risk of Death To More Than One Person By Use of a Hazardous Weapon or Devise;
(11) That The Homicide Was Part of a Course of Conduct Involving A Crime of Violence Against Another Person.

Good point. I should learn to read past the first sentence or stop listening to the Academy Awards.

(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder; with AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES of:

(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"; and
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 12:04 AM

Good point. I should learn to read past the first sentence or stop listening to the Academy Awards.

(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder; with AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES of:

(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"; and
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel.

There was an interview early on in the case on either WRAL or WTVD, the legal expert was very confident that Michelle's homicide would qualify for the DP, because it was particularly "heinous, atrocious, and cruel". MOO

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 12:08 AM

Good point. I should learn to read past the first sentence or stop listening to the Academy Awards.

(1) Convicted of First Degree Murder; with AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES of:

(6) That The Homicide Was Committed "For Pecuniary Gain"; and
(9) That the Homicide Was "Heinous, Atrocious, or Cruel.What was the pecuniary gain and how was this homicide 'heinous, atrocious or cruel'?

And no, I'm not being insensitive, just asking a question.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 12:14 AM

There was an interview early on in the case on either WRAL or WTVD, the legal expert was very confident that Michelle's homicide would qualify for the DP, because it was particularly "heinous, atrocious, and cruel". MOOA 'legal expert' was confident of this huh. Is that the same legal expert that said the Cooper homicide was qualified for the same reason?

Jester

02-23-2009, 12:17 AM

What was the pecuniary gain and how was this homicide 'heinous, atrocious or cruel'?

And no, I'm not being insensitive, just asking a question.

The gain was the financial difficulties and huge insurance policy. Even though Jason chickened out when it came to answering questions to get the money into his pocket, it is still a motive.

You ask how this was cruel. Hmmm. What an odd question. I'll refer you to the autopsy report. It can be found at NC Wanted as well as several other blogs on the internet. After reading this report, I'll be happy to discuss the contents that you wish to raise as not being cruel.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 12:36 AM

The gain was the financial difficulties and huge insurance policy. Even though Jason chickened out when it came to answering questions to get the money into his pocket, it is still a motive.

You ask how this was cruel. Hmmm. What an odd question. I'll refer you to the autopsy report. It can be found at NC Wanted as well as several other blogs on the internet. After reading this report, I'll be happy to discuss the contents that you wish to raise as not being cruel.
What financial difficulties and how did the murder solve them? If the ins money was not collected, it cannot be cited as evidence of pecuniary gain.

Hmmm. Not odd at all. I've read the autopsy report. Which section details aspects 'not normally present' in a homicide that would make it heinous, cruel or autrocious?

The question for the court is whether the facts of a particular case disclose "excessive brutality, or physical pain, psychological suffering, or dehumanizing aspects not normally present in that offense." State v. Blackwelder , 309 N.C. 410, 414, 306 S.E.2d 783, 786 (1983)(emphasis in original). The extent of mutilation of the body of the victim is relevant to measuring the brutality of the crime. Id. "Excessive brutality" or "conscienceless, pitiless, or unnecessarily tortuous" conduct is necessary to categorize a crime as heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Massey , 62 N.C. App. 66, 68, 302 S.E.2d 262, 264 (1983), aff'd and modified on other grounds, 309 N.C. 625, 308 S.E.2d 332 (1983). Furthermore, psychological or physical pain not normally present in the offense will support a finding of heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Brown , 314 N.C. 588, 336 S.E.2d 388 (1985)(finding aggravating factor where victim was tied to bedpost and had a towel forced down his throat causing him to suffer emotional distress before dying of asphyxiation).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals95%5Cappeals1121%5C&invol=evans (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals95%5Cappeals1121%5C&invol=evans)

awareness

02-23-2009, 12:40 AM

Michelle was pregnant with Rylan. I couldnt imagine being murdered and knowing your child will die as well. that JMO is cruelty in and of itself.
JMO/IMO

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 12:48 AM

Michelle was pregnant with Rylan. I couldnt imagine being murdered and knowing your child will die as well. that JMO is cruelty in and of itself.
JMO/IMOIt would if NC had any fetal homicide laws.

Tia

02-23-2009, 12:51 AM

What financial difficulties and how did the murder solve them? If the ins money was not collected, it cannot be cited as evidence of pecuniary gain.

Hmmm. Not odd at all. I've read the autopsy report. Which section details aspects 'not normally present' in a homicide that would make it heinous, cruel or autrocious?

The question for the court is whether the facts of a particular case disclose "excessive brutality, or physical pain, psychological suffering, or dehumanizing aspects not normally present in that offense." State v. Blackwelder , 309 N.C. 410, 414, 306 S.E.2d 783, 786 (1983)(emphasis in original). The extent of mutilation of the body of the victim is relevant to measuring the brutality of the crime. Id. "Excessive brutality" or "conscienceless, pitiless, or unnecessarily tortuous" conduct is necessary to categorize a crime as heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Massey , 62 N.C. App. 66, 68, 302 S.E.2d 262, 264 (1983), aff'd and modified on other grounds, 309 N.C. 625, 308 S.E.2d 332 (1983). Furthermore, psychological or physical pain not normally present in the offense will support a finding of heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Brown , 314 N.C. 588, 336 S.E.2d 388 (1985)(finding aggravating factor where victim was tied to bedpost and had a towel forced down his throat causing him to suffer emotional distress before dying of asphyxiation).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals95%5Cappeals1121%5C&invol=evans

Jason has gained nothing and lost everything because, IMO, Michelle's murder didn't "blow over" like he hoped.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 01:02 AM

Jason has gained nothing and lost everything because, IMO, Michelle's murder didn't "blow over" like he hoped.
My memory of the email snippet was that Jason thought the internet and neighborhood chatter would 'blow over'.

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 01:03 AM

Jason has gained nothing and lost everything because, IMO, Michelle's murder didn't "blow over" like he hoped.

And, it hasn't got him arrested either.

Kat

*****************************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 01:06 AM

There was an interview early on in the case on either WRAL or WTVD, the legal expert was very confident that Michelle's homicide would qualify for the DP, because it was particularly "heinous, atrocious, and cruel". MOO

But, aren't all murders.??

Any death, besides a natural one, is heinous, atrocious and cruel.

Agree?

Kat
****************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 01:11 AM

And, it hasn't got him arrested either.

Kat

*****************************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

No it hasn't. I wonder what LE is looking for in Jason's emails.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 01:15 AM

But, aren't all murders.??

Any death, besides a natural one, is heinous, atrocious and cruel.

Agree?

Kat
****************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.
Which is why the USSC ruled that a limiting instruction is req'd to distinguish a murder that is heinous, atrocious and cruel and worthy of a penalty of death from one that is heinous, atrocious and cruel but not worthy of a penalty of death.

Tia

02-23-2009, 01:20 AM

And, it hasn't got him arrested either.

Kat

*****************************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

He is broke, has lost primary custody of his daughter to his SIL, can't keep a job, is suspected of murdering his wife and IMO, he did murder Michelle and Rylan, and now he is paying for it. He has nothing now.

I don't believe he'd have lost anything if he was straight up with LE from day one-which an innocent man would have been.

Jason is now simply reaping what he has sown. Justice has come for Michelle in a way, her daughter will now be able to grow up knowing everything about her mother.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 01:54 AM

[snipped]

The point of a message board is to have varying opinions and heated discussion.

IMO, that is not allowed on this thread. Those of us who are what you call "insiders" and believe Jason is guilty, have been banned over and over for voicing our opinions and trying desperately to share our knowledge. its not possible for all posters do get along on a message board, but all opinions should be allowed, not just the opinion of one or two posters.

JMO

You are an insider? How so?

The knowledge you are "trying desperately to share" hasn't resulted in an arrest. Why do you suppose that is?

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 02:00 AM

Doesn't this mean that once Linda receives her expected monetary award from the WDS that she will be one of the slayer's creditors?

The townhouse isn't part of the estate is the point AE made. Thus, there will be no monetary award tied to it.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 02:06 AM

Actually this has nothing to do with the penalty phase. The DA checks with the victim's family, especially one who has been interested in helping LE find the killer, and gets their thoughts on pursuing the death penalty.
Linda and Meredith will have JY's life in their hands if the DA would like to go for the death penalty in this case.

It has everything to do with it. Linda Fisher is the victim's mother. Despite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention, she isn't from a legal standpoint.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 02:09 AM

He is broke, has lost primary custody of his daughter to his SIL, can't keep a job, is suspected of murdering his wife and IMO, he did murder Michelle and Rylan, and now he is paying for it. He has nothing now.

I don't believe he'd have lost anything if he was straight up with LE from day one-which an innocent man would have been.

Jason is now simply reaping what he has sown. Justice has come for Michelle in a way, her daughter will now be able to grow up knowing everything about her mother.

He is broke? Link, please.
He has lost primary custody? Not true. He retains shared legal custody.

I don't believe you have a clue what a man will do when accused of a crime he didn't commit.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 07:39 AM

But, aren't all murders.??

Any death, besides a natural one, is heinous, atrocious and cruel.

Agree?

Kat
****************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

The heinousness can apply to the overkill and the atrociousness to the fact that Michelle was pregnant with the slayer's baby.

But, I think when the last face you see on this earth is wielding the instrument of your death, and that person is someone that you loved and trusted, your betrayal is beyond cruel. MOO

5swab5

02-23-2009, 07:52 AM

It has everything to do with it. Linda Fisher is the victim's mother. Despite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention, she isn't from a legal standpoint.

Someone has to speak up for Michelle, Rylan and Cassidy. It is abundantly clear that the loving, caring :cough: husband is unwilling to take care of his own. Linda paid for the funeral for heaven's sake.

Through no fault of her own, Linda is a victim. She doesn't deserve to be maligned with your posts. MOO

5swab5

02-23-2009, 08:01 AM

He is broke? Link, please.
He has lost primary custody? Not true. He retains shared legal custody.

I don't believe you have a clue what a man will do when accused of a crime he didn't commit.

Jason most certainly has lost Primary Custody. Meredith will now be attending to Cassidy for all but about 50 days (1142 hrs) a year. I'd call that Primary enough. MOO

jerry50

02-23-2009, 09:13 AM

But, aren't all murders.??

Any death, besides a natural one, is heinous, atrocious and cruel.

Agree?

Kat
****************************
The only way to experience true loss is to lose something
you love more than yourself.

Maybe it's just me, but I think having your teeth knocked out and scattered around your bloody bedroom where your 2 1/2 year old daughter could find them would be a tad more cruel than just a simple strangulation.

jerry50

02-23-2009, 09:14 AM

It has everything to do with it. Linda Fisher is the victim's mother. Despite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention, she isn't from a legal standpoint.

You might want to start checking other other crimes. The input of the victim's family is considered when the DA is deciding on a plea.

Tia

02-23-2009, 10:35 AM

It has everything to do with it. Linda Fisher is the victim's mother. Despite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention, she isn't from a legal standpoint.

"Dispite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention?"

Link please!!

I don't believe you have a clue what a woman will do when someone murders her child.

Tia

02-23-2009, 11:17 AM

Jason most certainly has lost Primary Custody. Meredith will now be attending to Cassidy for all but about 50 days (1142 hrs) a year. I'd call that Primary enough. MOO

IMO, some here still don't understand how Primary and Legal custody work and how even though it seems important, Legal custody isn't really a huge deal. Its routine to share legal custody. The Physical part is the important part.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 11:19 AM

Jason most certainly has lost Primary Custody. Meredith will now be attending to Cassidy for all but about 50 days (1142 hrs) a year. I'd call that Primary enough. MOO

It's pretty clear (IMO) in the custody agreement. There is joint legal custody and, while there is shared physical custody, Meredith Fisher will have primary physical custody.

The biggest surprise to me was that PY went for this. I'm not referring to her legal standing or lack there of, but as a mother and a grandmother you would think that she would be heart broken CY has been living with her in her home. This is going to be a big painful change. This is why I don't understand why this custody change happened without a fight. I wouldn't think that PY would let it happen. IMO

Tia

02-23-2009, 11:24 AM

It's pretty clear (IMO) in the custody agreement. There is joint legal custody and, while there is shared physical custody, Meredith Fisher will have primary physical custody.

The biggest surprise to me was that PY went for this. I'm not referring to her legal standing or lack there of, but as a mother and a grandmother you would think that she would be heart broken CY has been living with her in her home. This is going to be a big painful change. This is why I don't understand why this custody change happened without a fight. I wouldn't think that PY would let it happen. IMO

PY is more concerned about keeping Jason out of jail, IMO, at least thats all I could come up with. I can't imagine any other reason for any of them, especially Jason, letting Cassidy go so easily.

achristie

02-23-2009, 11:27 AM

It's pretty clear (IMO) in the custody agreement. There is joint legal custody and, while there is shared physical custody, Meredith Fisher will have primary physical custody.

The biggest surprise to me was that PY went for this. I'm not referring to her legal standing or lack there of, but as a mother and a grandmother you would think that she would be heart broken CY has been living with her in her home. This is going to be a big painful change. This is why I don't understand why this custody change happened without a fight. I wouldn't think that PY would let it happen. IMO

This terrible murder has effected so many people. I don't think Mrs.Young has much choice. I would surmise that the Fishers, knowing the pain of being shut out of CY's life, will not do the same to Mrs. Young. CY will need the love and support of many when this is finally resolved.

MOO Aggie

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 11:37 AM

PY is more concerned about keeping Jason out of jail, IMO, at least thats all I could come up with. I can't imagine any other reason for any of them, especially Jason, letting Cassidy go so easily.

That is what has me so perplexed. Was Jason that sure that he would have gone to Jail if he has fought the custody suit? Why can he not talk? What question can he not answer? I just don't understand why this happened the way it did. We have heard a great deal about Jason's love for CY and I'm not questioning it. However, what would most of us not do for our children? Wouldn't most parents sacrifice everything for their child? I do wonder how CY will view this when she gets older.

We can all bicker and disagree on the legal stuff and the guilt or innocence, but the murder and all of it's aftermath is something that this little girl will always live with. I do believe that aunts and grandmothers on both sides of the family love her and will do what is best for her. (IMO)

5swab5

02-23-2009, 11:52 AM

It's pretty clear (IMO) in the custody agreement. There is joint legal custody and, while there is shared physical custody, Meredith Fisher will have primary physical custody.

The biggest surprise to me was that PY went for this. I'm not referring to her legal standing or lack there of, but as a mother and a grandmother you would think that she would be heart broken CY has been living with her in her home. This is going to be a big painful change. This is why I don't understand why this custody change happened without a fight. I wouldn't think that PY would let it happen. IMO

The agreement really blew me out of the water too.

I guess if you aren't 100% "Young", you are dispensible. MOO

Tia

02-23-2009, 11:57 AM

That is what has me so perplexed. Was Jason that sure that he would have gone to Jail if he has fought the custody suit? Why can he not talk? What question can he not answer? I just don't understand why this happened the way it did. We have heard a great deal about Jason's love for CY and I'm not questioning it. However, what would most of us not do for our children? Wouldn't most parents sacrifice everything for their child? I do wonder how CY will view this when she gets older.

We can all bicker and disagree on the legal stuff and the guilt or innocence, but the murder and all of it's aftermath is something that this little girl will always live with. I do believe that aunts and grandmothers on both sides of the family love her and will do what is best for her. (IMO)

What choice did he have? He didn't even have anything to sacrifice. He has nothing. Think about it, unless he despises Cassidy and could care less who raises her (which I don't believe to be true), what other reason could there be for him to not fight for her? He simply knows he will go to jail. Its a lose lose situation for him.

Like I said last night, he has lost everything IMO. He has created his own prison by remaining mute.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 11:58 AM

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 12:06 PM

As I stated before, perhaps there was a greater risk that the Fishers would get EXCLUSIVE care, custody and control of Cassidy like they asked for and that is why he came to the agreement he did with Meredith.

Since the slayer ruling made the allegation of murder in the custody complaint a fact for the court, I don't think there would have been questions about his involvement in the murder, per se. So I don't know he 'feared' his words would result in his arrest.

So is the Slayer ruling a bigger deal than some have made it out to be? I thought it was major. But some have downplayed it to being a little more than meaningless.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 12:07 PM

"Dispite her best effort to turn herself into the center of attention?"

Link please!!

I don't believe you have a clue what a woman will do when someone murders her child.

Here's the link to the civil cases filed by Linda Fisher. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't wait two years to gain custody of my grandchild.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/4367700/

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 12:12 PM

Here's the link to the civil cases filed by Linda Fisher. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't wait two years to gain custody of my grandchild.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/4367700/

Maybe she got tired of hearing imminent also. :blushing:

5swab5

02-23-2009, 12:17 PM

As I stated before, perhaps there was a greater risk that the Fishers would get EXCLUSIVE care, custody and control of Cassidy like they asked for and that is why he came to the agreement he did with Meredith.

Since the slayer ruling made the allegation of murder in the custody complaint a fact for the court, I don't think there would have been questions about his involvement in the murder, per se. So I don't know he 'feared' his words would result in his arrest.

While I do think that Jason's "slayer" status would have played a part in the custody suit, I do not think the court would have been ANYWHERE near as generous with the Fisher's custody arrangement.

Now, if Jason had been convicted in a criminal court, all bets would be off. MOO

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 12:35 PM

While I do think that Jason's "slayer" status would have played a part in the custody suit, I do not think the court would have been ANYWHERE near as generous with the Fisher's custody arrangement.

Now, if Jason had been convicted in a criminal court, all bets would be off. MOO

I don't know. I thought I read that Ann Miller's in-laws had a hard time seeing their grandchild even though AM was convicted.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 12:39 PM

As I stated before, perhaps there was a greater risk that the Fishers would get EXCLUSIVE care, custody and control of Cassidy like they asked for and that is why he came to the agreement he did with Meredith.

Since the slayer ruling made the allegation of murder in the custody complaint a fact for the court, I don't think there would have been questions about his involvement in the murder, per se. So I don't know he 'feared' his words would result in his arrest.

I think he was advised that a settlement agreement is easily undone because it is with a third party. By settling, his parental rights remain fully intact. Going forward, the Judge's only focus is what is best for the child.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 12:40 PM

I would be willing to bet that these custody issues happen in quite a few murder cases. Even when one parent is not suspected as the murder. Just think, if a wife gets murdered at work and the husband doesn't get along with her family, he could withhold the children from his in-laws.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 12:43 PM

I think he was advised that a settlement agreement is easily undone because it is with a third party. By settling, his parental rights remain fully intact. Going forward, the Judge's only focus is what is best for the child.

But why do it in the first place. Remember, he is also establishing a paper trail. If he decides to try and change the status later, the next judge will wonder why he agreed to these conditions.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 01:05 PM

But why do it in the first place. Remember, he is also establishing a paper trail. If he decides to try and change the status later, the next judge will wonder why he agreed to these conditions.

Why not do it? Going forward, it is about what is best for the child. Jason's still the parent and circumstances change.

jerry50

02-23-2009, 01:05 PM

So is the Slayer ruling a bigger deal than some have made it out to be? I thought it was major. But some have downplayed it to being a little more than meaningless.

I remember that there were numerous posts that claimed that the WDS declaration of JY being the slayer would not have any bearing on the custody case and would not even be mentioned.

These posters have been 0 for a million, I expect 0 for a million and one to be coming soon.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 01:06 PM

jerry50

02-23-2009, 01:06 PM

Why not do it? Going forward, it is about what is best for the child. Jason's still the parent and circumstances change.

Why not do it? If JY was innocent there is no way he would be giving up any pary of Cassidy's life let alone giving primary to Meredith, one of 2 people he has gone out of his way to prevent from even contacting Cassidy.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 01:08 PM

So is the Slayer ruling a bigger deal than some have made it out to be? I thought it was major. But some have downplayed it to being a little more than meaningless.
It's both actually. It has meaning in the civil court arena but has no meaning in terms of guilt or innocence in the criminal court arena.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 01:08 PM

I remember that there were numerous posts that claimed that the WDS declaration of JY being the slayer would not have any bearing on the custody case and would not even be mentioned.

These posters have been 0 for a million, I expect 0 for a million and one to be coming soon.

In the end it had no bearing on the custody case. The parties settled before the deadline for Jason's response.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 01:11 PM

Why not do it? If JY was innocent there is no way he would be giving up any pary of Cassidy's life let alone giving primary to Meredith, one of 2 people he has gone out of his way to prevent from even contacting Cassidy.

If JY is innocent, why wouldn't he be willing to share CY with her loving aunt? A search warrant made it clear he liked Meredith.

btw, Jason agreed to visits between CY and Meredith. As a parent, he didn't have to agree to any at all.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 01:16 PM

While I do think that Jason's "slayer" status would have played a part in the custody suit, I do not think the court would have been ANYWHERE near as generous with the Fisher's custody arrangement.

Now, if Jason had been convicted in a criminal court, all bets would be off. MOO
The statute doesn't distinguish between being convicted in a criminal court or being found responsible in a civil court when granting the state the authority to step in and determine custody in the best interest of the child.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 01:40 PM

If JY is innocent, why wouldn't he be willing to share CY with her loving aunt? A search warrant made it clear he liked Meredith.

btw, Jason agreed to visits between CY and Meredith. As a parent, he didn't have to agree to any at all.

He didn't have to agree to anything, IF he was willing to have a psych exam and take a deposition. BIG difference, all the difference in the world. The difference in PRIMARY Custody, to be exact. MOO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 01:57 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I think having your teeth knocked out and scattered around your bloody bedroom where your 2 1/2 year old daughter could find them would be a tad more cruel than just a simple strangulation.

And, maybe it's just me, but if I walked into a bedroom and saw teeth scattered around and pools of blood everywhere and a dead body, I might actually think something bad happened and still could.

But, like I said,hey, maybe it's just me.

:shrug:

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 02:13 PM

He didn't have to agree to anything, IF he was willing to have a psych exam and take a deposition. BIG difference, all the difference in the world. The difference in PRIMARY Custody, to be exact. MOO

This could go on forever trying to make excuses or give explanations for the non~responsive acts on Jason's part for the last 2 court actions, but I can't come up with much to excuse him for not fighting for C.

Unless he is scared.
Unless he is tired.
Unless he believes the Fishers are never going to go away, and he may as well give in..
Unless he felt C was old enough now to be away from him.
Unless he decided to share.

I still can't get over the animosity that goes on here every day, why can't it be more civil on both sides?

Some of the JDI's I talk to off the Board agree we don't have to have all this fighting.

Jason has been named a slayer, and Jason has agreed, because of whatver reason you choose to believe,to share her with the Fishers.

Those are givens.

I conceded, admitted to being wrong about some things, threw the white flag, etc.

What is not a given, is that there has still not been an arrest.

That is why the case continues on............and on.................and on...........

Almost 28 months later..

Kat

Tia

02-23-2009, 02:21 PM

And, maybe it's just me, but if I walked into a bedroom and saw teeth scattered around and pools of blood everywhere and a dead body, I might actually think something bad happened and still could.

But, like I said,hey, maybe it's just me.

:shrug:

Kat

Kat, comments like this are what cause problems on the boards.

Have you ever discovered a sibling murdered?

awareness

02-23-2009, 02:36 PM

Kat, comments like this are what cause problems on the boards.

Have you ever discovered a sibling murdered?

Dont take it to heart, I dont, after all Kat said "maybe its just me" -- well yes, that is her opinion only, not mine that's for sure.

JMO/IMO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 02:39 PM

Dont take it to heart, I dont, after all Kat said "maybe its just me" -- well yes, that is her opinion only, not mine that's for sure.

JMO/IMO

Enforcing the statement and the point of what hard seasoned veteran officers said when encountering the scene of Michelle Young in one of the most brutal, horrific, bloody crime scenes ever. might be just more than me though.
JMO too.
:shrug:

Kat

awareness

02-23-2009, 02:40 PM

If JY is innocent, why wouldn't he be willing to share CY with her loving aunt? A search warrant made it clear he liked Meredith.

btw, Jason agreed to visits between CY and Meredith. As a parent, he didn't have to agree to any at all.

If he "liked" Meredith, why didnt he allow her (with or withouth Linda) to visit Cassidy? He didnt allow any visits between Meredith, Linda and Cassidy - even in the presence of the Youngs, or even if they drove all that way to go see Cassidy - nope, no visits allowed.

btw, Jason only agreed to visits after Meredith & Linda had filed the custody case. Sure as a parent he didnt have to agree to any at all, but then the whole case would have been subject to a hearing - and the potential psych eval we all know Jason didnt want to go through with. Jason chose not to fight for Cassidy - bottom line.

JMO/IMO

awareness

02-23-2009, 02:43 PM

It would if NC had any fetal homicide laws.

I understand NC has no fetal homicide laws.

However it should be taken into consideration Michelle was preganant and Im sure it alarmed her even more when she was murdered - because she was probably in part thinking of Rylan. Sorry but I do consider this a "henious and cruel" crime. Unfortunatley since there's no fetal homicide laws, the perpetrator cant be tried and given extra time for the murder of Rylan. But you cant take away the fact Michelle was pregnant and yes it was a henious/cruel crime.

JMO/IMO

Tia

02-23-2009, 02:47 PM

Enforcing the statement and the point of what hard seasoned veteran officers said when encountering the scene of Michelle Young in one of the most brutal, horrific, bloody crime scenes ever. might be just more than me though.
JMO too.
:shrug:

Kat

Have you ever found your sibling murdered? Do you have any personal experience with walking into a room, seeing something that you never in your life would have imagined seeing? Not making sense of it?

Tia

02-23-2009, 02:53 PM

Dont take it to heart, I dont, after all Kat said "maybe its just me" -- well yes, that is her opinion only, not mine that's for sure.

JMO/IMO

True. Its just one opinion which obviously LE doesn't share since there have been no warrants issued for Meredith and she has just been issued Primary physical custody of Cassidy.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 03:07 PM

Happens all the time, murder or not.

Sad, but very true.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 03:15 PM

Snipped

I still can't get over the animosity that goes on here every day, why can't it be more civil on both sides?

Kat

It reminds me of when I was a kid. My sister would get in a fight with one of her friends. Then she would turn me against that friend with all of her stories on how the friend had done this and that. After a few days my sister and her friend would be playing with each other and all was forgiven. But not by me. I would still be mad.

Certain posters seem to have a "second hand" hatred for the Youngs or the Fishers. Then we see an e-mail from Jy talking about liking MF. With the recent custody arrangement, it seems like they are able to be civil to each other concerning CY, regardless of whatever else is going on.

Jester

02-23-2009, 04:02 PM

What financial difficulties and how did the murder solve them? If the ins money was not collected, it cannot be cited as evidence of pecuniary gain.

Hmmm. Not odd at all. I've read the autopsy report. Which section details aspects 'not normally present' in a homicide that would make it heinous, cruel or autrocious?

The question for the court is whether the facts of a particular case disclose "excessive brutality, or physical pain, psychological suffering, or dehumanizing aspects not normally present in that offense." State v. Blackwelder , 309 N.C. 410, 414, 306 S.E.2d 783, 786 (1983)(emphasis in original). The extent of mutilation of the body of the victim is relevant to measuring the brutality of the crime. Id. "Excessive brutality" or "conscienceless, pitiless, or unnecessarily tortuous" conduct is necessary to categorize a crime as heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Massey , 62 N.C. App. 66, 68, 302 S.E.2d 262, 264 (1983), aff'd and modified on other grounds, 309 N.C. 625, 308 S.E.2d 332 (1983). Furthermore, psychological or physical pain not normally present in the offense will support a finding of heinous, atrocious, or cruel. State v. Brown , 314 N.C. 588, 336 S.E.2d 388 (1985)(finding aggravating factor where victim was tied to bedpost and had a towel forced down his throat causing him to suffer emotional distress before dying of asphyxiation).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals95%5Cappeals1121%5C&invol=evans

Leaving Cassidy at the scene to traipse through her mother's blood seems particularly cruel to mother and daughter. Being beaten to death seems cruel ... and I could go on, but I don't want to fill my head with such dreadful images.

awareness

02-23-2009, 04:37 PM

Not truth and you know it. There was visits between CY and her Grandmother Fisher and her Aunt MF. There was pictures that circulated around the internet of them. There was even one of them on her my space for a while.

EXCUSE ME?! No I dont "know it". :no: Careful there confused, because it sounds nearly like a personal attack on me, saying what I typed wasnt true and "I know it". No, I dont know it. And since you seem to know for CERTAIN the opposite of what I posted -- Can I get a link to your asserted fact that Meredith and or Linda had visitation with Cassidy PRIOR to the custody suit being filed?

JMO

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:11 PM

If he "liked" Meredith, why didnt he allow her (with or withouth Linda) to visit Cassidy? He didnt allow any visits between Meredith, Linda and Cassidy - even in the presence of the Youngs, or even if they drove all that way to go see Cassidy - nope, no visits allowed.

btw, Jason only agreed to visits after Meredith & Linda had filed the custody case. Sure as a parent he didnt have to agree to any at all, but then the whole case would have been subject to a hearing - and the potential psych eval we all know Jason didnt want to go through with. Jason chose not to fight for Cassidy - bottom line.

JMO/IMO

You sure are confusing fact with fiction.

According to one of the civil complaints as well as news articles that have been linked several times, Jason did allow Meredith to see Cassidy. Meredith also posted a recent photo of herself with CY on her myspace so obviously you are wrong. Linda Fisher has publicly said she has seen the child at her daycare so I'm not sure where you get the idea Jason has not allowed a single visit.

Jason may not have wanted to go through the psych evaluation but if Linda and Meredith feel he really did murder Michelle, why didn't they push for it? Why did Linda Fisher agree to no custody even before a Judge could rule on that psych evaluation?

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 05:19 PM

Leaving Cassidy at the scene to traipse through her mother's blood seems particularly cruel to mother and daughter. Being beaten to death seems cruel ... and I could go on, but I don't want to fill my head with such dreadful images.
Well the limiting instruction in NC is that there have to be aspects of the murder itself that are 'not normally present in that offense'. I'm not implying what you say isn't considered cruel, what I'm saying is the limiting instruction says it's not cruelty that warrants a death sentence.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 05:21 PM

You sure are confusing fact with fiction.

According to one of the civil complaints as well as news articles that have been linked several times, Jason did allow Meredith to see Cassidy. Meredith also posted a recent photo of herself with CY on her myspace so obviously you are wrong. Linda Fisher has publicly said she has seen the child at her daycare so I'm not sure where you get the idea Jason has not allowed a single visit.

Jason may not have wanted to go through the psych evaluation but if Linda and Meredith feel he really did murder Michelle, why didn't they push for it? Why did Linda Fisher agree to no custody even before a Judge could rule on that psych evaluation?

No way to predict the outcome in a court case, you know what they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I feel pretty certain that Linda was acting on advise from her Attorney.
I imagine Meredith getting PRIMARY physical custody was much more than any of them ever dreamed of getting. MOO

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:21 PM

And, maybe it's just me, but if I walked into a bedroom and saw teeth scattered around and pools of blood everywhere and a dead body, I might actually think something bad happened and still could.

But, like I said,hey, maybe it's just me.

:shrug:

Kat

No, it isn't just you or me. Such a horrific scene yet Meredith asked the toddler if Mommy fell and she couldn't explain to the 911 dispatcher why she thought Michelle was dead.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:23 PM

No way to predict the outcome in a court case, you know what they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I feel pretty certain that Linda was acting on advise from her Attorney.
I imagine Meredith getting PRIMARY physical custody was much more than any of them ever dreamed of getting. MOO

Linda Fisher asked for custody and a psych evaluation and got neither. How is that a 'bird in the hand'?????

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:25 PM

Alan Fisher also mentions the visits in this warrant . I guess she just isn't keeping up with the news or reading the warrants.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Thanks. I don't believe Jason ever restricted visits with Meredith, I think his problem was and still is with his MIL.

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 05:32 PM

EXCUSE ME?! No I dont "know it". :no: Careful there confused, because it sounds nearly like a personal attack on me, saying what I typed wasnt true and "I know it". No, I dont know it. And since you seem to know for CERTAIN the opposite of what I posted -- Can I get a link to your asserted fact that Meredith and or Linda had visitation with Cassidy PRIOR to the custody suit being filed?

JMO

Calm down, Awareness.
I am sure Confused will supply you with a link, and I am going to back her/him up until they do.

MF put a recent pic of both her and CY on her site, after one of those visits.
Pictures tell the truth.
And, on that subject do a split screen with CY and JY, and tell me who she looks like.!! Her daddy, thank you.

It was posted here that at least 2x the Fishers showed up uninvited and unannounced at CY's daycare, causing problems and having to call the Youngs to get permission.
The Youngs gave permission, even though they did not have to.
But, according to the Fishers in several articles they insist they have never seen her.
So, which was it?

Now, that they had come to an agreement with Jason, what can be done next to hurt him?

:(
Kat

5swab5

02-23-2009, 05:38 PM

Linda Fisher asked for custody and a psych evaluation and got neither. How is that a 'bird in the hand'?????

For the fortieth time, Linda and Meredith were CO-Plaintiffs.

Meredith, a CO-Plaintiff, got PRIMARY Custody and joint legal custody.

Not many parents willing to just give that away for no reason. Certainly a win in anybody's book. MOO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 05:39 PM

No, it isn't just you or me. Such a horrific scene yet Meredith asked the toddler if Mommy fell and she couldn't explain to the 911 dispatcher why she thought Michelle was dead.

Exactly, and no one was talking about any s/w's.

I am talking about having enough common sense to know that you entered a room, a house, a garage, whatever where something terrible happened, and if you don't know it, see it, or feel it, wow.

That you don't think the same danger still could be there, or you don't even do a room check, and fear doesn't kick in, at some point?
Panic, anxiety, something telling you this isn't a normal everyday experience you just walked into?

Blood, dog, child, body, teeth, and signs of a struggle?

Wow.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 05:45 PM

It reminds me of when I was a kid. My sister would get in a fight with one of her friends. Then she would turn me against that friend with all of her stories on how the friend had done this and that. After a few days my sister and her friend would be playing with each other and all was forgiven. But not by me. I would still be mad.

Certain posters seem to have a "second hand" hatred for the Youngs or the Fishers. Then we see an e-mail from Jy talking about liking MF. With the recent custody arrangement, it seems like they are able to be civil to each other concerning CY, regardless of whatever else is going on.

Things are expected to get heated, I get that.
This is a murder case that has gone on far too long.
Like I said earlier, it is approaching the 28th month mark.
People are getting restless.
It is the personal attacks that are not okay, though.
If you look back, you will see not many people have changed their position from the very beginning.
I don't think anyone is going to make real concessions until if and when an arrest is finally made.
And, even then there will always be doubts because of how long it took.
It still isn't all that difficult to be civil to a perfect stranger on a Message Board or any forum.
That's what I don't get.

:confused:

Kat

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:48 PM

For the fortieth time, Linda and Meredith were CO-Plaintiffs.

Meredith, a CO-Plaintiff, got PRIMARY Custody and joint legal custody.

Not many parents willing to just give that away for no reason. Certainly a win in anybody's book. MOO

Linda didn't win full custody and neither did Meredith. Neither won a psych evaluation that may have resulted in full custody. Linda Fisher can only see the child when Meredith has her and, of course, with Meredith's permission. That's not much of a win when she had asked for custody and a psych evaluation and ended up with, what, phone calls?

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 05:50 PM

You sure are confusing fact with fiction.

According to one of the civil complaints as well as news articles that have been linked several times, Jason did allow Meredith to see Cassidy. Meredith also posted a recent photo of herself with CY on her myspace so obviously you are wrong. Linda Fisher has publicly said she has seen the child at her daycare so I'm not sure where you get the idea Jason has not allowed a single visit.

Jason may not have wanted to go through the psych evaluation but if Linda and Meredith feel he really did murder Michelle, why didn't they push for it? Why did Linda Fisher agree to no custody even before a Judge could rule on that psych evaluation?

Oops, I should have read this first.
Good post!!
Kat

5swab5

02-23-2009, 05:52 PM

(snipped)

It was posted here that at least 2x the Fishers showed up uninvited and unannounced at CY's daycare, causing problems and having to call the Youngs to get permission.
The Youngs gave permission, even though they did not have to.
But, according to the Fishers in several articles they insist they have never seen her.
So, which was it?

Now, that they had come to an agreement with Jason, what can be done next to hurt him?

:(
Kat

Jason and the Youngs were preventing visits or Linda would not have had to take the actions she did. What a shame that Cassidy's own grandmother was reduced to subterfuge to see Cassidy. And to make matters worse, she is belittled for it.

It is completely unfair to use an article, that was published before the visits to Brevard to try to make Linda look bad, but it doesn't surprise me. Much the same way that people now want to say, that Jason was letting Linda see Cassidy. Yes he was, right before the WDS, when he thought he had something to gain.

Doesn't seem that Jason was hurt to me, he got to keep his lips sealed, all he had to do was give over his precious daughter. Priorities seem out-of-whack IMO, but it was his choice. MOO

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 05:54 PM

Ok, I guess this makes you far superior to Meredith...knowing what you would do when put in that situation. Let's hope you never are put in the same situation...for fear you may find out that what you think you would do and what you actually would do, may be two different things.

I hope I am never in that situation, either. But, I am not so naive as to pretend to know what I would do. I would like to believe I would know what to do, but when the rubber meets road...it may be a different thing completely.

Kat isn't claiming to be superior to Meredith. Most of us know how we would react to such a horrific sight....a sight that didn't seem to bother Meredith all that much. My first reaction would not be to wonder if Mommy fell nor would I be whispering my sister's name as though she is asleep.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 05:55 PM

Linda didn't win full custody and neither did Meredith. Neither won a psych evaluation that may have resulted in full custody. Linda Fisher can only see the child when Meredith has her and, of course, with Meredith's permission. That's not much of a win when she had asked for custody and a psych evaluation and ended up with, what, phone calls?

I'm sorry that this is all over your head. MOO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:02 PM

Kat isn't claiming to be superior to Meredith. Most of us know how we would react to such a horrific sight....a sight that didn't seem to bother Meredith all that much. My first reaction would not be to wonder if Mommy fell nor would I be whispering my sister's name as though she is asleep.

I don't know,I guess I have seen too many scary movies.

You know the ones where people react in horror when they find a dead body, and scream and everything.

Who is calling me superior?

:no:

Kat

frances1

02-23-2009, 06:12 PM

janesdeaan

02-23-2009, 06:12 PM

Alan Fisher also mentions the visits in this warrant . I guess she just isn't keeping up with the news or reading the warrants.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Alan Fisher mentions the visits as being very strange, in how Linda Fisher and Meredith were treated by Jason and how difficult Jason made it for Linda and Meredith to see Cassidy unsupervised. He talks as though he knows no reason why Jason would treat them this way other than he finds it suspicious behaviour on Jason's part.

"Alan Fisher: I know that Jason has made living very difficult for Meredith

and my ex-wife to spend any unsupervised time with Cassidy. I don't

know if you're aware of that, and they seem to be very short visits, two

hour visits and supervised, and they don't let them alone with her out of

some fear that they may have."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:19 PM

Jason and the Youngs were preventing visits or Linda would not have had to take the actions she did. What a shame that Cassidy's own grandmother was reduced to subterfuge to see Cassidy. And to make matters worse, she is belittled for it.

It is completely unfair to use an article, that was published before the visits to Brevard to try to make Linda look bad, but it doesn't surprise me. Much the same way that people now want to say, that Jason was letting Linda see Cassidy. Yes he was, right before the WDS, when he thought he had something to gain.

Doesn't seem that Jason was hurt to me, he got to keep his lips sealed, all he had to do was give over his precious daughter. Priorities seem out-of-whack IMO, but it was his choice. MOO

I know this is getting old, but let's try it again..:)
From the top.

Michelle was murdered.
The Fishers believe Jason killed her, whether publicly or privately stated, it doesn't matter at this point.
But,Jason holds the key to CY.

So, what do you have now?
A mess.
So, do you play nicey~nice like AF may have to keep seeing his grandchild?
Or, do you dig in your heels and let the following emotions take over?

Resentment on Jason's part for not having their inital support.
Resentment on the Fisher's part for what they think he has done, and for not letting them have access to CY.
You have all these things building, with day after day, week after week, month after month, and now year after year,feelings of anger, distrust, betrayal,etc.

So, the Fishers file a WDS.
Jason does not respond.
Fishers win.

How does this help the situation between them?
It doesn't , it escalates it.

So, then the custody suit.
Before the court date, an agreement takes place overruling anything the court may have decided.

Win~win , lose~lose, score card?
2-0 Fishers.

But, still sadly, after all this ,
Justice for Michelle is 0-0.

JMO too.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:23 PM

I don't know anything about this case, and don't want to. All I know is that when I want to look at Current Crimes, this always seems to be at the top of the board. Frankly, I wish it had it's own thread, because I'm sick of seeing it. Some people posting on this case must have some strong agendas, and somehow I think it must have become personal. This is certainly NOT a current crime.

Hi Frances..
We do have our own thread but the fighting closes it down.
Which is where this one is probably headed shortly.
You are right though, this is not a current crime anymore.
But,it does still need to be resolved, though.
What case are you following?
Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:29 PM

Badgering posters is just as bad as showing contempt or snarky combacks/replies. LADIES,please!:rolleyes:

Well, after 800+ days of arguing a case what do you expect?

:)
Kat

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 06:35 PM

I called 911 when I was in college because my roommate's car caught on fire. I remember telling the operator that we needed the fire department because there was a car on fire. The operator asked me for my name, the address, and the number that I was calling from. then she asked me how I knew that the car was on fire. Being caught up in the moment, I didn't really know how to answer the question. So, I just hung up and called again. Looking back, I'm sure that the operator was trying to confirm that this was a real fire and not just a car that was overheating. At the time the question caught me a little off guard and I guess my response was a little strange.

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:36 PM

Scroll on, scroll on with hope in your heart, and you'll never walk alone!

All cases are like this, especially murder cases.
And, especially one that has taken this long, when it looks like something will happen and then it doesn't.

Scrolling is good though, that's what I do.

:)
Kat

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 06:37 PM

I don't know anything about this case, and don't want to. All I know is that when I want to look at Current Crimes, this always seems to be at the top of the board. Frankly, I wish it had it's own thread, because I'm sick of seeing it. Some people posting on this case must have some strong agendas, and somehow I think it must have become personal. This is certainly NOT a current crime.

I guess we are the you know what in the punch bowl. This is a bit embarrassing. :blushing:

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 06:40 PM

BSNBREVARDNC

02-23-2009, 06:43 PM

Burning car vs. dead body, though?

Kat

I know. However, I would think that her stress level would have been greater. Plus people just react differently. Some freeze, some spring into action, you just never can tell.

5swab5

02-23-2009, 06:45 PM

And, maybe it's just me, but if I walked into a bedroom and saw teeth scattered around and pools of blood everywhere and a dead body, I might actually think something bad happened and still could.

But, like I said,hey, maybe it's just me.

:shrug:

Kat

I doubt Meredith loses much sleep over what you think of her 911 call. Lucky thing that Jason sent her there in the long run. We know what he would have done, he has proven it time and time again.

N~O~T~H~I~N~G!

MOO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 07:24 PM

OT/ The other case in NC :New Warrant- Emails sought

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4595486/

Barbara2

02-23-2009, 07:58 PM

Burning car vs. dead body, though?

Kat

I've been in a life threatening situation and I responded very poorly. If my words had been on a 911 call I'm sure you would have had a good laugh. But I didn't have a chance to call 911. I had a man's arm around my neck and he was dragging me to his car. I got lucky and got away (not through any actions of my own but as a result of two unknowing gentlemen who happened to pass by and interrupt the kidnapper). It's amazing how you can go into shock during a shocking situation. I don't think you can judge until you've walked in the shoes of someone in shock. IMO

awareness

02-23-2009, 08:06 PM

Alan Fisher also mentions the visits in this warrant . I guess she just isn't keeping up with the news or reading the warrants.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

Wrong.

I NEVER ONCE SAID anything about Alan and June Fisher.

Only Meredith and Linda.

Also - the "visits", the only ones mentioned in your link were the ones Alan and June had with Cassidy, before his death. This is all well before the Wrongful Death and Custody suits were ever filed. I specifically mentioned Linda and Meredith by name, that's who I was talking about.

So again, can I get a link to prove Meredith and Linda had visiting rights before the custody suit was filed? TIA. Perhaps they had them, but I only heard about visitations AFTER the custody suit was filed (post WD).

JMO/IMO

awareness

02-23-2009, 08:13 PM

Nellikat

02-23-2009, 08:40 PM

I've been in a life threatening situation and I responded very poorly. If my words had been on a 911 call I'm sure you would have had a good laugh. But I didn't have a chance to call 911. I had a man's arm around my neck and he was dragging me to his car. I got lucky and got away (not through any actions of my own but as a result of two unknowing gentlemen who happened to pass by and interrupt the kidnapper). It's amazing how you can go into shock during a shocking situation. I don't think you can judge until you've walked in the shoes of someone in shock. IMO

ITA. IMO, shock and how you respond will never be known until you go through it first hand.

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 08:42 PM

Wrong.

I NEVER ONCE SAID anything about Alan and June Fisher.

Only Meredith and Linda.

Also - the "visits", the only ones mentioned in your link were the ones Alan and June had with Cassidy, before his death. This is all well before the Wrongful Death and Custody suits were ever filed. I specifically mentioned Linda and Meredith by name, that's who I was talking about.

So again, can I get a link to prove Meredith and Linda had visiting rights before the custody suit was filed? TIA. Perhaps they had them, but I only heard about visitations AFTER the custody suit was filed (post WD).

JMO/IMO

Apparently you didn't read the link. Alan Fisher is very clearly referring to visits between CY and Linda/ Meredith and he died months before the civil lawsuits were ever filed.

"Alan Fisher: I know that Jason has made living very difficult for Meredith and my ex-wife to spend any unsupervised time with Cassidy. I don't know if you're aware of that, and they seem to be very short visits, two hour visits and supervised, and they don't let them alone with her out of some fear that they may have."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local...0114743620.pdf

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 08:45 PM

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 08:49 PM

ITA. IMO, shock and how you respond will never be known until you go through it first hand.

I am sure that is true, but here we have a unlocked garage door, Michelle's car that wasn't supposed to be there, a dog freaking out, blood all over the bed, floor, walls, and the dead body of her sister.

Wouldn't you think that just one of those things would start to add up to something being wrong ?

Just one?

Kat

awareness

02-23-2009, 08:51 PM

I stand corrected. But thanks for the "eye roll" Kat.

edit-Jason didnt make it easy for them to visit at all though, did he? Only marginal visits SUPERVISED, then Meredith & Linda were cut off altogether, until around Oct of 08-ish?

As far as pictures on myspace, I dont go to that website, so Im not tracking anyones social networking pages in regard to "players" in this case (Jason, Meredith, Linda, etc).

Barbara2

02-23-2009, 08:53 PM

I am sure that is true, but here we have a unlocked garage door, Michelle's car that wasn't supposed to be there, a dog freaking out, blood all over the bed, floor, walls, and the dead body of her sister.

Wouldn't you think that just one of those things would start to add up to something being wrong ?

Just one?

Kat

Any normal person would be in shock I would think. I'm not surprised that her reactions were not those of a "rational" person. IMO

awareness

02-23-2009, 08:56 PM

If MF had not seen CY, how in the world did she get a picture of them together posted on her webpage, long belong the WDS suit was ever filed?

:rolleyes:

Kat

I dont go to her "webpage", myspace or whatever.

No need to "roll your eyes" Kat. It was an honest mistake. Furthermore, Jason hasnt made it easy for Meredith & Linda to visit Cassidy - until around the time of the WD suit at least in my opinion.

JMO/IMO

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 08:56 PM

[QUOTE=awareness;12821499]

I stand corrected.
<snipped>

No problem, Stella , Confused and I are glad to help you.
:)
Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-23-2009, 08:58 PM

Barbara2

02-23-2009, 09:02 PM

This was your earlier post.
Hope this helps.

Kat

I hope there is some point to this post other than trying to stir up trouble. I know that you had posted that you couldn't understand how posters couldn't post respectfully and as mature adults. Is your post an example of what you are talking about? :shrug:

achristie

02-23-2009, 09:03 PM

I've been in a life threatening situation and I responded very poorly. If my words had been on a 911 call I'm sure you would have had a good laugh. But I didn't have a chance to call 911. I had a man's arm around my neck and he was dragging me to his car. I got lucky and got away (not through any actions of my own but as a result of two unknowing gentlemen who happened to pass by and interrupt the kidnapper). It's amazing how you can go into shock during a shocking situation. I don't think you can judge until you've walked in the shoes of someone in shock. IMO

You may have responded poorly, but you , most assuredly, can relate to how MY must have felt in those first few moments. A feeling the remainder of us can't relate to.

MOO Aggie

Leanne Weich

02-23-2009, 09:37 PM

Snipped to address this only.

.......... He can maintain a job if he can keep people from sabotaging his work place. Remember all the anonymous emails that went into his last job?...........

Link please.

Leanne Weich

02-23-2009, 09:44 PM

You didn't see the photos circulating around the internet and you didn't hear people talking about how happy CY looked in the photos? You must have missed a lot of posts . I cn assure you it happened. MF and LF saw CY long before the WDS. I'm at work now but when I get home I will search for the links.

IIRC, the photo you are referring to was taken when Linda and Meredith paid a stealth visit to the kindergarten and the staff were then told to not allow them to see Cassidy again.

Leanne Weich

02-23-2009, 09:50 PM

Ok, I guess this makes you far superior to Meredith...knowing what you would do when put in that situation. Let's hope you never are put in the same situation...for fear you may find out that what you think you would do and what you actually would do, may be two different things.

I hope I am never in that situation, either. But, I am not so naive as to pretend to know what I would do. I would like to believe I would know what to do, but when the rubber meets road...it may be a different thing completely.

I remember when I saw my first dead person - found my m-i-l lying dead in the passage at 3.00 a.m. I didn't know she was dead as my frame of reference didn't extend to seeing a dead person. Meredith may have found herself in the same position.

janesdeaan

02-23-2009, 10:14 PM

I am sure that is true, but here we have a unlocked garage door, Michelle's car that wasn't supposed to be there, a dog freaking out, blood all over the bed, floor, walls, and the dead body of her sister.

Wouldn't you think that just one of those things would start to add up to something being wrong ?

Just one?

Kat

Of course, that's why she called 911, and said "I think my sister is dead." :rolleyes:

janesdeaan

02-23-2009, 10:24 PM

Thanks. I don't believe Jason ever restricted visits with Meredith, I think his problem was and still is with his MIL.

Not sure what you mean by "restricted", but Alan Fisher makes it quite clear that Jason did not let Linda and Meredith have any visitation with Cassidy beyond a 2 hour, supervised visit in the SW. He talks as if he believes Jason doesn't want LF and MF seeing Cassidy for fear of incrimination. That, in my opinion should put to rest all the rumors on this board that Linda Fisher has some sordid past. Her own husband (ex) cites Jason's reason for cutting Linda Fisher and Meredith off from visitation with Cassidy as Jason Young's involvement in the murder of Michelle Young. See SW link:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local...0114743620.pdf

achristie

02-23-2009, 10:51 PM

I am going to put this out there. I find people harrassing Leanne because of her location a bit childish. So what if she is in another country? She has the same electronic access to this case as everyone else. She may not get to drive around NC...but I have no inclination to do that either.

Leanne is always respectful and tries to stay on track. I would ask you all kindly now keep her location out of your comments unless it actually makes a difference (I know she sometimes talkes about Australian law).

Confused, you could have respectfully asked how Leanne arrived at that conclusion. Who cares where she is from?

It matters not where Leanne comes from, IMO.
What matters is her depth, sound logic , and good, common sense.:thumbup:

MOO Aggie

Stellagant

02-23-2009, 11:01 PM

Not sure what you mean by "restricted", but Alan Fisher makes it quite clear that Jason did not let Linda and Meredith have any visitation with Cassidy beyond a 2 hour, supervised visit in the SW. He talks as if he believes Jason doesn't want LF and MF seeing Cassidy for fear of incrimination. That, in my opinion should put to rest all the rumors on this board that Linda Fisher has some sordid past. Her own husband (ex) cites Jason's reason for cutting Linda Fisher and Meredith off from visitation with Cassidy as Jason Young's involvement in the murder of Michelle Young. See SW link:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local...0114743620.pdf

Nowhere in this comment does Alan Fisher give the reason "as Jason Young's involvement in the murder of Michelle Young." It doesn't say that at all.

"Alan Fisher: I know that Jason has made living very difficult for Meredith and my ex-wife to spend any unsupervised time with Cassidy. I don't know if you're aware of that, and they seem to be very short visits, two hour visits and supervised, and they don't let them alone with her out of some fear that they may have."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local...0114743620.pdf

jerry50

02-23-2009, 11:39 PM

I am going to put this out there. I find people harrassing Leanne because of her location a bit childish. So what if she is in another country? She has the same electronic access to this case as everyone else. She may not get to drive around NC...but I have no inclination to do that either.

Leanne is always respectful and tries to stay on track. I would ask you all kindly now keep her location out of your comments unless it actually makes a difference (I know she sometimes talkes about Australian law).

Confused, you could have respectfully asked how Leanne arrived at that conclusion. Who cares where she is from?

I agree. Leanne has added a wealth of information to this board. She is of a very high character and I think I can say for sure that she has never foreclosed on her home.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 11:54 PM

I know. However, I would think that her stress level would have been greater. Plus people just react differently. Some freeze, some spring into action, you just never can tell.
Unless of course it involves Jason.

And then all of a sudden everyone would know exactly what they would do. Or say. Or not do. Or not say.

No allowances at all for Jason to react differently from however the person passing judgement would act.

alterEgo©

02-23-2009, 11:59 PM

I agree. Leanne has added a wealth of information to this board. She is of a very high character and I think I can say for sure that she has never foreclosed on her home.What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:17 AM

I agree. Leanne has added a wealth of information to this board. She is of a very high character and I think I can say for sure that she has never foreclosed on her home.

What does this mean?

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:23 AM

I for one haven't driven around NC gathering information. I have read newpapers and warrants. No where have I seen anything about stealth visits . I merely asked how she obtained this information. Why would you call that harassing?

I am at a loss on this one too, Confused. .:shrug:

I think the poster who said earlier that this is not a current crime, could not had been more right.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:30 AM

What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Beats the heck out of me.

So, 3/17 is the next date coming up for the courts to decide the distribution concerning the WDS.??

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:34 AM

Unless of course it involves Jason.

And then all of a sudden everyone would know exactly what they would do. Or say. Or not do. Or not say.

No allowances at all for Jason to react differently from however the person passing judgement would act.

To fall or not to fall to their knees when learning of a death is much more believable, understandable and acceptable than one not knowing that they walked into a gruesome, bloody, horrific murder scene.

Kat

Leanne Weich

02-24-2009, 03:37 AM

See here we go again. How do you know being way off in another country that it was a stealth visit and how do you know what LF was told? I didn't see anything here in the US papers to that effect so where did you get that information?

The information came from multiple people who live near and have contact with the school. Just as you choose who you believe information from, so do I and it was generally accepted on this forum that Linda and Meredith had to sneak into Cassidy's school to see her. BTW, the tone of your post is unnecessary, imo.

BSNBREVARDNC

02-24-2009, 10:44 AM

Not true. He fell plumb to his knees, sounds somewhat normal, its his behavior afterwards that causes such concern, refusal to speak with LE, making no public plea to the killer of his wife, continuing contact with M.M., placing no headstone on his wife's grave for a very long time (Kat may be able to give the exact amount of days M.F's grave went without a headstone), failing to respond to the WDS, not fighting at all for his child and allowing M.F. to take primary physical custody, etc......
These are facts. The hours of discussion here about M.F. and her reaction when she walked into the garage are not fact, no one knows what she did or thought.

IMO it doesn't sound normal at all. "He fell plum to his knees"? There was immediate acceptance? No how, what, when, where, etc. He just immediately feel to his knees because he was overcome by the news that his wife had died? He did know how she died, but he just accepted it, and that was that?

IMO bad news usually takes a moment to set in. The mind kinda puts everything on hold. But that was not the case here.

Leanne Weich

02-24-2009, 10:54 AM

Thanks for the support guys. It sure seems to touch a nerve with a couple of people on this forum that I have the audacity to have an opinion on this case. One would think I was an interloper.

I am just so grateful that I don't have to live anywhere near where this heinous murder took place, to be able to follow it and discuss it here.

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 10:59 AM

Not true. He fell plumb to his knees, sounds somewhat normal, its his behavior afterwards that causes such concern, refusal to speak with LE, making no public plea to the killer of his wife, continuing contact with M.M., placing no headstone on his wife's grave for a very long time (Kat may be able to give the exact amount of days M.F's grave went without a headstone), failing to respond to the WDS, not fighting at all for his child and allowing M.F. to take primary physical custody, etc......
These are facts. The hours of discussion here about M.F. and her reaction when she walked into the garage are not fact, no one knows what she did or thought.
Again, his behavior that 'causes concern' only does so because it's not how the person making the judgement would act.

Where is the allowance for Jason to be different?

We are free to discuss MF's keys and her inability to tell a consistent story to LE about where she put them. We are also free to speculate as to what she may have been thinking, which is done on a regular basis when it comes to anything Jason.

5swab5

02-24-2009, 11:01 AM

IMO it doesn't sound normal at all. "He fell plum to his knees"? There was immediate acceptance? No how, what, when, where, etc. He just immediately feel to his knees because he was overcome by the news that his wife had died? He did know how she died, but he just accepted it, and that was that?

IMO bad news usually takes a moment to set in. The mind kinda puts everything on hold. But that was not the case here.

ITA, he completely forgot the part about being in disbelief. Just goes to show you, no matter how well planned a murder is, you can't cover all the bases. People that don't have normal emotions, can't fake them. No wonder he has been afraid to open his mouth. He knows he can't fool anyone, except a select few in Brevard, that want to be fooled. MOO

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 11:04 AM

We get it. IMO, you cannot stand M.F. for some reason and make it known over and over and over and over. You were not there when M.F. walked into the house so you are posting rumors. Isn't that a bannable offense? You don't know what she did initially. She may have screamed her head off, and wanted to do nothing but make sure the llittle girl was safe not even worrying about anything else. You were not there so you don't know. She may have seemed calm on the 911 call so as not to futher uspet the little girl. You don't know and since no one else has questioned it (meaning LE), I see no point for it to be continually brought up. The only reason I see that it is brought up is that its become obvious that M.F. has had nothing to do with her sister's murder and this is a round about way of bashing her without getting in trouble.
How do you know LE didn't question her about the 911 call? You were not there, so you don't know.

Again, we are free to discuss our reactions and thoughts about the 911 call and to offer our opinions about it. It's not bashing no matter how many times you say it.

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 11:06 AM

That has been posted here and at another forum by the retired teacher. Its common knowledge. Over at the Hayleigh thread, there are rumors and "I heard ______" posted all day. Why is it only bannable here if the poster states that they don't have a link, its just something they were told by an insider? You can then decide whether or not you want to believe it.The retired teacher? Huh?

If you have issues with the moderation of this board, take them up with CW. Your complaining about this board is tiring and waaay off topic.

5swab5

02-24-2009, 11:08 AM

Again, his behavior that 'causes concern' only does so because it's not how the person making the judgement would act.

Where is the allowance for Jason to be different?(snip)

Every Defense Attorney that has a guilty client drags out that tired old mantra, "There is No PlayBook for Grief". How come everyone else in the world knows how to grieve, except murderers? MOO

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 11:11 AM

Every Defense Attorney that has a guilty client drags out that tired old mantra, "There is No PlayBook for Grief". How come everyone else in the world knows how to grieve, except murderers? MOOEveryone in the world, huh? Guess Cynthia Sommers missed that memo.

And I know this will come as a complete shock to you, but not all defendants are guilty.

Stellagant

02-24-2009, 11:37 AM

To fall or not to fall to their knees when learning of a death is much more believable, understandable and acceptable than one not knowing that they walked into a gruesome, bloody, horrific murder scene.

Kat

ITA. Meredith's reaction on the 911 call is not one of someone who has walked into a gruesome scene. She doesn't sound scared or in fear for Cassidy's safety. She is simultaneously chatting with a toddler and making off the wall comments about dogs freaking out and is evasive to direct questions being asked by the dispatcher.

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 11:48 AM

ITA. Meredith's reaction on the 911 call is not one of someone who has walked into a gruesome scene. She doesn't sound scared or in fear for Cassidy's safety. She is simultaneously chatting with a toddler and making off the wall comments about dogs freaking out and is evasive to direct questions being asked by the dispatcher.
Everytime I hear 'did mommy fall' it just sends shudders up my spine.

Stellagant

02-24-2009, 11:59 AM

Your forgot to add "IMO".

Have you ever been in a position to find your sister beaten to death and had to manage a toddler during the discovery, then the 911 call?

I don't need to add "IMO" because I clearly state it is "My Opinion."

:rolleyes:

Stellagant

02-24-2009, 12:01 PM

Everytime I hear 'did mommy fall' it just sends shudders up my spine.

Mine, too. When she asks her if someone was there, it's pretty obvious she knew Mommy didn't fall. I think it is a very creepy call.

alterEgo©

02-24-2009, 12:34 PM

Mine, too. When she asks her if someone was there, it's pretty obvious she knew Mommy didn't fall. I think it is a very creepy call.
ITA. Not only can she not answer if she saw what happened, she tells LE the wrong 'story' about where she put her keys when she got there.

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:46 PM

Wrong. There is a lot going on, unfortunately those posters "in the know" are putting there info in other places rather than here. Just because you don't feel it isn't a current crime, doesn't magically make it so.

A crime that happened in Nov. 06, is not a current crime.
Kat

Stellagant

02-24-2009, 12:48 PM

ITA. Not only can she not answer if she saw what happened, she tells LE the wrong 'story' about where she put her keys when she got there.

I think the significance of the keys is that she returned Michelle's keys to the counter where she found them.

Stellagant

02-24-2009, 12:51 PM

Think about this for a minute though. If Meredith had anything to do with MY's death....would she ask C anything at all (for fear of C's answer when someone else can hear it over the phone?)? The 911 operator doesn't tell her to ask C what happened. MY was just trying to delicately ask C what she knows, IMO. Also, if Meredith had anything to do with it, don't you think she would have avoided being the one to find the body if possible? I mean, she could have just told JY she was busy and didn't have time to go get that print out he asked her to get.

Meredith's questioning of CY on the 911 was an evasive measure so she wouldn't have to answer the dispatcher's questions. That's why he asked her to remove CY to her room.

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:56 PM

[QUOTE=Brion;12822962

>snipped>.
The only reason I see that it is brought up is that its become obvious that M.F. has had nothing to do with her sister's murder and this is a round about way of bashing her without getting in trouble.[/QUOTE]

Nope , not true.:no:
Not only did she find the body , make the off the wall 911 call, she later had a "revelation" as to where she left her keys.

I never said she murdered her sister or has any involvement in the case whatsoever, but I am allowed to speculate on any thing I find out of the ordinary on the case.

Perhaps the things she wrote about herself did not help her cause either.

:shrug:

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 12:57 PM

Isn't today G.J. Day? Its been rumored that there have been visitors to Brevard the past couple of days. I wonder if they are "wrapping" things up?

Link to visitors in Brevard?

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:01 PM

Everytime I hear 'did mommy fall' it just sends shudders up my spine.

That is the part I don't get.. almost a suggestion as to what happened as to what really did.

I posted a long time ago, that someday the scene in that home will be released , whether in pics, or an re~enactment, and I dare to say, that not many people will come up with the conclusion that a fall is what killed Michelle.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:04 PM

Then why is it here? In the current crimes section? Someone must think its a current crime, right?

It is here because the MY forum was locked, and someone opened up a new thread here.

The fact that there has not been an arrest and there are some new things happening from time to time, does not make it a new case.

Nov-06 to Feb-09 does not equal new, either.
In fact, this weekend the case will begin 28 months old.

Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:07 PM

What was she supposed to say? "was mommy beaten to death?". I think she handled the little girl as delicately as possible. She asked that question to get an answer from her.

Why did she need to question her at all, about what happened?

She should have been shielding her from what happened, not asking questions or calling more attention to her dead Mothers's body,
We are free to discuss the actions or non actions of anyone in this case.
As long as it is done civilly.
Kat

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:10 PM

If you read my post, I said "its been rumored". That seems to suffice on other threads, so I assume its okay here as well?
It has been rumored on other boards by insiders who live in the area that Brevard has had "visitors" (LE) recently asking questions about Jason, not about M.F., or where she placed her keys or how she responded to the discovery of M.Y.'s body, or how she sounded on the 911 call. Nope, its rumored the LE has been asking a lot of questions about Jason and only Jason.

So, it is only a rumor, not a fact.
Thanxx.
:)
Kat

Pomme

02-24-2009, 01:10 PM

This is hopefully not taken as a baiting question, but rather just one hatched from my own curiosity:

Will speculation by a small group a posters here at IS (don't see it too many other places anymore) about MF stop if:
a) Jason is arrested?
b) Jason is convicted?
c) Never?

I'm curious to see how strong the convictions of those suspicious of MF are. Are you open to changing your mind if previously unreleased evidence is released during trial, if one occurs?

Thanks.

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:12 PM

I guess you have no children? It was a delicate way to find out what happened from the little girl.

:no:
Not supposed to ask personal questions to a poster about their children.

Kat

Pomme

02-24-2009, 01:17 PM

So, it is only a rumor, not a fact.
Thanxx.
:)
Kat

Isn't that exactly what Brion said? I'm confused as to why you are restating what Brion said.

Kat4Eagles

02-24-2009, 01:24 PM

[QUOTE=Brion;12823493

<snipped>
Here we have Jason named as M.Y.'s slayer, rumors of visitors to Brevard in recent days, yet the discussionn continues on and on about the 911 call. I just don't get it at all.[/QUOTE]

That is the reality of discussing an unsolved murder case, it can take you anywhere!!

I find the 911 call fascinating in the fact, it deals with so many things that were not important to the 911 operator, but sure were to the caller.!!

Kat