Michelle Fisher Young case 2/21 thru 2/25

[janesdeaan]

Not in the latest search warrant, it said Pancof.

Here's the excerpt:

"Pancof PD is noteworthy because of it's possible sleep inducing effects. A Pancof PD dropper was also discovered on the shelves and was seized for additional testing." "A Pancof PD dropper that was seized from Cassidy Young's bedroom at the Birchleaf scene was analyzed and compared to known DNA samples. The SBI Lab Report states the following: "The partial DNA sample obtained from the dropper MATCHED the DNA profile obtained from Cassidy Young
and DID NOT MATCH the DNA profiles of Michelle Young..."


http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2009/2/10/YoungWarrants.pdf

[Stellagant]

Not in the latest search warrant, it said Pancof.

Doesn't matter. The more recent warrant did not say there was Pancof residue in the dropper.

[Kat4Eagles]

Keep counting down, the world is depending on it!
JMO

When a case goes on as long as this one has, there is going
to be a lot more countdowns !!
:wink:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Unless JY prints another ebay auction, kills someone else and calls her to pick up the print out she probably won't have that chance again.

You may want to add an JMO or IMO to this, no one, not even the slayer, has been arrested yet.
That is why we are coming up to the 28 month mark this Tues.
:)
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

When a case goes on as long as this one has, there is going
to be a lot more countdowns !!
:wink:

Kat

A countdown to the trial date once an arrest is made
A countdown for the number of days the trial takes
A countdown for how long the jury is out
Etc., Etc., Etc.

:thumbsup:

[im4justice]

Doesn't matter. The more recent warrant did not say there was Pancof residue in the dropper.

The most recent warrant doesn't identify the residue as Pancof PD but then it doesn't identify it as Tylenol either. It DOES refer to the dropper as a "Pancof PD dropper". So maybe they have reports we are not privy to.
page 21
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/10/4508366/20090210114743620.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

Doesn't matter. The more recent warrant did not say there was Pancof residue in the dropper.

Do you think they actually tested CY though ?
That is the only way it is going to matter.
Sounds like they "thought" a lot of things, but
can not explain how CY was kept clean.
They suggested she was removed from the home,
and/or that she was drugged.
So,which is it.?
And, Mr. G.. was he tested , too?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

A countdown to the trial date once an arrest is made
A countdown for the number of days the trial takes
A countdown for how long the jury is out
Etc., Etc., Etc.

:thumbsup:

Yep, now you got it!!!
Glad you are back!
Check your PM's again,
I missed your last one, sorry!!
:)
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yep, now you got it!!!
Glad you are back!
Check your PM's again,
I missed your last one, sorry!!
:)
Kat

Thank you....

[alterEgo©]

Yes, that's what I posted all right ! And, it was reported both ways, near her mother's body unharmed and in the bed in the master bedroom. So, we don't know.
Then you missed the fact that what I posted was from a search warrant.

So, yeah, we know.

[alterEgo©]

It looks like the Pancof will knock you for a loop. JY could have cleaned Cy, given her a dose of the Pancof, and headed back to his business trip.

I'm full grown and some of those cough meds knock me right out. I can imagine what it would do to a child.
I guess that is possible.

But she doesn't sound groggy at all on that 911 call. She is chatty and concerned about getting bandaids and a washcloth for her mommy's boo boos. I find it hard to believe she woke up from being drugged and was that chatty and alert.

[tiny paw-prints]

Keep counting down, the world is depending on it!
JMO

Until the arrest of Michelle and Ryan's killer, it's always good to know that everybody is maintaining a sense of humor! BTW, does anyone know if Jason is assisting the investigators in finding the real killer?

[alterEgo©]

Acetaminophen is an effective and safe painkiller. However, if taken in excess it can be fatal. Taking an acetaminophen overdose overwhelms the liver's ability to process the drug. The excess acetaminophen is then processed into toxic chemicals, which can kill liver cells. If enough cells are killed the patient can die from liver failure.

ttp://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2002/G/20021040.html

This wasn't your average Tylenol product, it was Adult Extra Strength Tylenol Rapid Blast Cold Medicine, if Jason did give her this, Cassidy is lucky to be alive.
Well gosh he told his mom he gave her watered down Tylenol.

And I don't see where Tylenol makes Rapid Blast Cold Medicine. Where are you getting that it was cold medicine?

[Kat4Eagles]

I guess that is possible.

But she doesn't sound groggy at all on that 911 call. She is chatty and concerned about getting bandaids and a washcloth for her mommy's boo boos. I find it hard to believe she woke up from being drugged and was that chatty and alert.


So, when Jason called home at noon and shortly after, where in the world was CY?

She slept through the phone ringing?
She was not taught to answer the phone?
Or, did she answer and talk to Jason?
The phone wasn't plugged in?
She wasn't in the house?

And, were there any other phonecalls before noon?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

They most certainly did. Its in the custody agreement. Also, it has been "rumored" that the meeting places have been changed in order to keep away the media and the crazies.

I certainly hope so.
The fact that all their addresses are available is scary enough.
I hope they even hire a bodyguard if they need too.
You always hear some stories of people trying to solve these cases on their own.
Sad.
:(
Kat

[awareness]

Until the arrest of Michelle and Ryan's killer, it's always good to know that everybody is maintaining a sense of humor! BTW, does anyone know if Jason is assisting the investigators in finding the real killer?

Jason assisting LE? That'd be a big NO.

Funny how a part of my earlier post got deleted. Yet didnt someone say yesterday no one should tell us what we can and cant post about? Guess that doesn't apply to all.
JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Thank you....


You are welcome!
I was thinking earlier, do you think it is a good idea for the Fishers to take CY to MY's grave?
Or wait, until she is older?
Soon, if not already, CY will have a lot of questions.!!

Kat

[Doorbell]

And Jason shares in those decisions.

but Meredith will be in possession of those records, as Cassidy will be residing with her.

[Doorbell]

I certainly hope so.
The fact that all their addresses are available is scary enough.
I hope they even hire a bodyguard if they need too.
You always hear some stories of people trying to solve these cases on their own.
Sad.
:(
Kat

You can find out pretty much anyone's address by typing their name into a people search engine such as Whitepages.com or pipl.com. Not much point in secrecy.

[Kat4Eagles]

You can find out pretty much anyone's address by typing their name into a people search engine such as Whitepages.com or pipl.com. Not much point in secrecy.


I guess, but until the case is solved, I hope they take extra precautions, if necessary.
I hate when they refer to CY as a possible witness.


I found this in one of the warrants for Birchleaf:
" I located and collected an anwering maching at the home, it showed that it contained pending messages."

I also found this:
"The victim's sister came to the house and discovered the three year old child walking inside the home."

Which does differ from the latest s/w stating CY was found in bed in Michelle and Jason's room.

Kat

[janesdeaan]

Well gosh he told his mom he gave her watered down Tylenol.

And I don't see where Tylenol makes Rapid Blast Cold Medicine. Where are you getting that it was cold medicine?

http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2009/2/10/YoungWarrants.pdf

[Doorbell]

I guess, but until the case is solved, I hope they take extra precautions, if necessary.
I hate when they refer to CY as a possible witness.


I found this in one of the warrants for Birchleaf:
" I located and collected an anwering maching at the home, it showed that it contained pending messages."

I also found this:
"The victim's sister came to the house and discovered the three year old child walking inside the home."

Which does differ from the latest s/w stating CY was found in bed in Michelle and Jason's room.

Kat

What are you anticipating? That somebody who thinks Cassidy is a possible witness will try to "whack" her?

This isn't the mafia, Kat. If the killer were going to do her in, he had his chance with the Pancof and Tylenol cold meds.

Or are you thinking that a whole flock of protesters will line up and yell, "Your Daddy is a killer?"

As we haven't heard anything on the news, I have to assume everything went smoothly, and there were no lurkers.

[alterEgo©]

So, when Jason called home at noon and shortly after, where in the world was CY?

She slept through the phone ringing?
She was not taught to answer the phone?
Or, did she answer and talk to Jason?
The phone wasn't plugged in?
She wasn't in the house?

And, were there any other phonecalls before noon?
KatHe didn't phone home, he phoned her cell phone. Or was it her work phone.

[Doorbell]

He didn't phone home, he phoned her cell phone. Or was it her work phone.

Both. He couldn't call the house. Couldn't risk Cassidy answering the phone and telling him Mommy has boo boos and won't wake up.

If she did that, he'd have to call the police, and if he did that, he'd have to talk to them.

IMO

[alterEgo©]

http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2009/2/10/YoungWarrants.pdf
Thanks!

Hmmm. That says tylenol adult cold medicine, another ones says tylenol adult rapid blast.

Tylenol has both, but not a rapid blast cold medicine.

Were both meds on the shelf? Or incorrect terminology in one of the SWs? Because the cold medicine one would more than likely cause drowsiness like BSNBREVARDNC said earlier, but a previous SW said it appeared that the Rapid Blast may have been delivered to the child in the misken belief that it would cause her to sleep.

:huh:

[alterEgo©]

Both. He couldn't call the house. Couldn't risk Cassidy answering the phone and telling him Mommy has boo boos and won't wake up.

If she did that, he'd have to call the police, and if he did that, he'd have to talk to them.

IMO
Or had no reason to phone home since Michelle was supposed to be at work.

[alterEgo©]

I guess, but until the case is solved, I hope they take extra precautions, if necessary.
I hate when they refer to CY as a possible witness.


I found this in one of the warrants for Birchleaf:
" I located and collected an anwering maching at the home, it showed that it contained pending messages."

I also found this:
"The victim's sister came to the house and discovered the three year old child walking inside the home."

Which does differ from the latest s/w stating CY was found in bed in Michelle and Jason's room.

KatAnd then there's the non existent bloody foot prints all over the house.

:ohmy:

[Kat4Eagles]

He didn't phone home, he phoned her cell phone. Or was it her work phone.

Okay, I stand corrected, but there were messages on the machine, so someone called, and CY had to be there, right?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

Okay, I stand corrected, but there were messages on the machine, so someone called, and CY had to be there, right?

Kat
Yeah.........

[Leanne Weich]

Okay, I stand corrected, but there were messages on the machine, so someone called, and CY had to be there, right?

Kat

It is quite possible that at the age of 2, Cassidy wasn't allowed to answer the phone. My g/kids weren't allowed to answer until they were about 4 because they'd just chatter away and not call their mom or dad and when finished saying whatever they wanted to say, would just hang up.

[kingbuff]

Yes, that's what I posted all right ! And, it was reported both ways, near her mother's body unharmed and in the bed in the master bedroom. So, we don't know.

Actually, witnesses have said Meredith gave other descriptions of her finding Cassidy. I won't post what I have heard because I didn't hear it myself. The police have been told other versions. Don't know what they believe.

[kingbuff]

And then there's the non existent bloody foot prints all over the house.

:ohmy:

Much has been said about those nonexistent prints. Pretend for a moment you were the one there rather than Meredith and pretend you are involved somehow in the murder. Now, why would you say that about the prints? Obviously the police would not find nonexistent prints, so why would you say it? Any ideas?

[alterEgo©]

No idea at all Kingbuff.

[kingbuff]

No idea at all Kingbuff.

Okay. Try again. Pretend you are in the house instead of Meredith. You are involved somehow in the murder. What possible reason would you have for making sure Cassie left clear footprints in the bathroom? I think you obviously could have prevented the prints, right?

[janesdeaan]

Thanks!

Hmmm. That says tylenol adult cold medicine, another ones says tylenol adult rapid blast.

Tylenol has both, but not a rapid blast cold medicine.

Were both meds on the shelf? Or incorrect terminology in one of the SWs? Because the cold medicine one would more than likely cause drowsiness like BSNBREVARDNC said earlier, but a previous SW said it appeared that the Rapid Blast may have been delivered to the child in the misken belief that it would cause her to sleep.

:huh:

In one of the search warrants they show a picture of the rapid blast bottle, and I thought it said cold medicine on it, but I could easily be wrong. I'll have to go check it out. The SW's have alot of differing statements by LE, probably because whoever is requesting the warrant at the time has their own interpretation of the facts.

[jerry50]

Actually, witnesses have said Meredith gave other descriptions of her finding Cassidy. I won't post what I have heard because I didn't hear it myself. The police have been told other versions. Don't know what they believe.


According to the affidavit the Det Spivey provided for the WDS, the police believe the JY bludgeoned his wife to death. Don't forget that the judge who ruled JY the "slayer" also was the judge who ruled on the therapist's records. He seems to know exactly who the slayer is.

Have you read the custody order carefully? It states that the parties involved are not to disparage each other. Does that include friends of the family or does the judge need to make that an addition to the custody suit? TIA

[janesdeaan]

Actually, witnesses have said Meredith gave other descriptions of her finding Cassidy. I won't post what I have heard because I didn't hear it myself. The police have been told other versions. Don't know what they believe.

I think I'll go with what I hear Meredith say on the 911 call, and that is that Cassidy's bloody footprints are all over the house. While "all over the house" maybe an exaggeration due to shock, I think there must have been some bloody, small footprints somewhere or she wouldn't have said it at all. Also, I think Meredith may have washed off Cassidy's feet at some point, or else from her running around, the blood just eventually wore off (if what was stated in SW is correct about her feet being clean).

[Doorbell]

As long as the child is cared for what does it matter who had the papers? You make it sound like you are talking about a pedigree for a dog. Sounds like you are saying MF has the papers so that makes her the owner. This is a child we are talking about and her welfare is paramount not who has the records.


Nobody said anything about a pedigree.

[Stellagant]

but Meredith will be in possession of those records, as Cassidy will be residing with her.

Doesn't matter as the court order (of which Jason has his own copy) requires Meredith to consult Jason about major decisions such as hospital care. If she violates the court order, that's fine with me.

[Stellagant]

Or had no reason to phone home since Michelle was supposed to be at work.

But wasn't Michelle's cell phone at the house? CY would have heard it ring, wouldn't she? If CY had been left alone with her mother's body all that time, she would have been trying to find food and drink and would have been one frustrated little tyke when Meredith arrived. Instead, that emotion evidently was only expressed by the dog.

[Stellagant]

Much has been said about those nonexistent prints. Pretend for a moment you were the one there rather than Meredith and pretend you are involved somehow in the murder. Now, why would you say that about the prints? Obviously the police would not find nonexistent prints, so why would you say it? Any ideas?

Say it because prints all over the house would be expected if the child was there all alone? That they were only in the bathroom is most likely because it is a detail she thought of at the very last minute?

[kingbuff]

According to the affidavit the Det Spivey provided for the WDS, the police believe the JY bludgeoned his wife to death. Don't forget that the judge who ruled JY the "slayer" also was the judge who ruled on the therapist's records. He seems to know exactly who the slayer is.

Have you read the custody order carefully? It states that the parties involved are not to disparage each other. Does that include friends of the family or does the judge need to make that an addition to the custody suit? TIA

The judge better get busy if he wants to gag me and the others on the boards. Maybe we need to add a bill of rights to the constitution. Wait! We have one!

[kingbuff]

Say it because prints all over the house would be expected if the child was there all alone? That they were only in the bathroom is most likely because it is a detail she thought of at the very last minute?

Or when you practiced the call you meant to leave prints all over the house but lost your nerve or whatever and could not bring yourself to make Cassie do it? When you made the actual call, you mistakenly added what you had practiced? There are details like this that I find hard to explain. I think we're missing something big.

[Stellagant]

Or when you practiced the call you meant to leave prints all over the house but lost your nerve or whatever and could not bring yourself to make Cassie do it? When you made the actual call, you mistakenly added what you had practiced? There are details like this that I find hard to explain. I think we're missing something big.

Or it was such a last-minute idea, they made the prints in the bathroom during the 911 call.

[5swab5]

(snipped)Maybe having a pharm rep in the house JY and My just bought one kind and added water.


Let me get this straight,

A textile grad turned hawker for medical software, is now qualified to decide to "water down" adult meds for small children? WOW.
Someone needs to get the word out to all those people getting ready to waste 4-8 years of their lives going to Medical or Pharmacy School.

Besides, NO ONE has said that Michelle watered down anything. Pat Young said that Jason said that he watered down Cassidy's meds, the two are not interchangeable. MOO

[5swab5]

Or when you practiced the call you meant to leave prints all over the house but lost your nerve or whatever and could not bring yourself to make Cassie do it? When you made the actual call, you mistakenly added what you had practiced? There are details like this that I find hard to explain. I think we're missing something big.

**Insert Twilight Zone music.**

doo doo doo-doo, doo doo doo-doo ...

[Leanne Weich]

**Insert Twilight Zone music.**

doo doo doo-doo, doo doo doo-doo ...

:seeya: Swabbie. The theories become more bizarre by the minute. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in an altered state of reality - one good thing is that Cassidy is right this minute with a person/s who love her and will protect her, no matter what. I'm sure Michelle is looking down and beaming with glee that her precious daughter is now with people who love her for who she is and not with someone who uses her as a pawn to keep himself out of prison and to hurt her family. I bet Cassidy is having a ball.

[Tia]

Okay, I stand corrected, but there were messages on the machine, so someone called, and CY had to be there, right?

Kat

Maybe she couldn't reach? Maybe she wasn't allowed to answer the phone?

[Tia]

As long as the child is cared for what does it matter who had the papers? You make it sound like you are talking about a pedigree for a dog. Sounds like you are saying MF has the papers so that makes her the owner. This is a child we are talking about and her welfare is paramount not who has the records.

You have to go back and read. No one was talking about a pedigree dog!

[5swab5]

Maybe she couldn't reach? Maybe she wasn't allowed to answer the phone?

Maybe the calls weren't even from that day.

Or maybe they were from Linda trying to call Meredith back and she wasn't allowed to use the landline or was out of the house. The calls could be from any number of their friends that were learning of the murders, but unable to get in touch with Meredith.

OR maybe Cassidy was still in her drug induced sleep? MOO

[Tia]

Maybe the calls weren't even from that day.

Or maybe they were from Linda trying to call Meredith back and she wasn't allowed to use the landline or was out of the house. The calls could be from any number of their friends that were learning of the murders, but unable to get in touch with Meredith.

OR maybe Cassidy was still in her drug induced sleep? MOO

Maybe the "slayer" put the phones out of reach so Cassidy couldn't answer.

[5swab5]

I suppose you could be right and MY left all the medicine giving to JY but then if he was on the road what did she give CY? There was no mention of any children's medicine. I wanted to add that I don't have a pharmacy degree either but I know what a third of 15 is.

Lordy,
Do you measure it out in mgs? mls? Weigh it? OR use the preferred method by Pediatricians the world over, just eyeball it. Poor kids.

There is NO indication that the medicines mentioned in various SWs were the only meds in that house that were for Cassidy, which makes one wonder if Jason even knew where Michelle kept Cassidy's meds. In his rush, he could have just used what he could get his hands on. MOO

[im4justice]

Actually my neighbor just brought over a childrens Robitussin. The active ingredient is dextrometorphan 5 mg. I have an adult one same brand that is 15 mg. So it would seem the adult is 3 times stronger . The inactive ingredients is a long list including flavoring ,corn syrup, and water. The difference in the adult and childrens is the adult has alcohol. Bottom line is if you used 1/3 the adult dose and added water seems you would have the same medicine. Maybe having a pharm rep in the house JY and My just bought one kind and added water.
After reading this post I feel obligated to print a reminder of the
Poison Control Hotline 1-800-222-1222
Please posters DO NOT give any medicine to your children not specifically prescribed for them by their physician. Do not under any circumstances dilute adult meds

[5swab5]

After reading this post I feel obligated to print a reminder of the
Poison Control Hotline 1-800-222-1222
Please posters DO NOT give any medicine to your children not specifically prescribed for them by their physician. Do not under any circumstances dilute adult meds

AMEN!
Thank You.

(emphasis mine)

[Tia]

After reading this post I feel obligated to print a reminder of the
Poison Control Hotline 1-800-222-1222
Please posters DO NOT give any medicine to your children not specifically prescribed for them by their physician. Do not under any circumstances dilute adult meds


Good idea.

Adult medication should never be given to a child. Their little livers cannot take adult meds.

[Tia]

Or it was such a last-minute idea, they made the prints in the bathroom during the 911 call.

So, if you, KB, and some other posters here believe Meredith murdered Michelle, why do you think Jason just handed Cassidy over to her?

[Kat4Eagles]

After reading this post I feel obligated to print a reminder of the
Poison Control Hotline 1-800-222-1222
Please posters DO NOT give any medicine to your children not specifically prescribed for them by their physician. Do not under any circumstances dilute adult meds

Yeah, and here is another one to add to the list.
If you think your son in law killed your daughter,
don't let your granddaughter live with him for
2 years before you start to worry about her.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

:seeya: Swabbie. The theories become more bizarre by the minute.


Apparently all the following things can be cleared up then , right?

The 911 call, the discrepancy of CY's footprints, the discrepancy of where CY was found, and the discrepancy which led to a revelation of where the keys were found.

I have never called anyone a murderer in this case, not even Jason..

I am still waiting.............

Clearly, with what we have seen, there is enough to get an indictment against Jason, but the fact that they won't proceed to obtain one, makes any questions, like the ones above, needing answers or at least some more "revelations".

Kat

[Barbara2]

Yeah, and here is another one to add to the list.
If you think your son in law killed your daughter,
don't let your granddaughter live with him for
2 years before you start to worry about her.

Kat

I have reason to believe that she worried about her granddaughter during that entire time period. IMO

[Barbara2]

Apparently all the following things can be cleared up then , right?

The 911 call, the discrepancy of CY's footprints, the discrepancy of where CY was found, and the discrepancy which led to a revelation of where the keys were found.

I have never called anyone a murderer in this case, not even Jason..

I am still waiting.............

Clearly, with what we have seen, there is enough to get an indictment against Jason, but the fact that they won't proceed to obtain one, makes any questions, like the ones above, needing answers or at least some more "revelations".

Kat

Yes, I believe all of those perceived discrepancies can be cleared up. IMO

[5swab5]

Yeah, and here is another one to add to the list.
If you think your son in law killed your daughter,
don't let your granddaughter live with him for
2 years before you start to worry about her.

Kat

Which part of Grandparents have zero rights in N.C. do you not understand?

You can't just go before a judge, with no proof and say that I think my SIL killed my daughter, so let me raise her daughter. Linda and Meredith had to wind their cause through the court system. Which they did. Jason Lynn Young was declared Michelle & Rylan's slayer. With that info in hand they were primed to move forward.

The good news is because Jason didn't care enough to stand up for Cassidy, take a deposition and have a psych exam, that Cassidy is back in the loving arms of her maternal relatives...as I type. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

I have reason to believe that she worried about her granddaughter during that entire time period. IMO


I would hope so.
Please posters DO NOT let someone you love live with a murderer.
Do not under any circumstances let this happen.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes, I believe all of those perceived discrepancies can be cleared up. IMO


Good, I would like to hear them.

Kat

[Tia]

:seeya: Swabbie. The theories become more bizarre by the minute. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in an altered state of reality - one good thing is that Cassidy is right this minute with a person/s who love her and will protect her, no matter what. I'm sure Michelle is looking down and beaming with glee that her precious daughter is now with people who love her for who she is and not with someone who uses her as a pawn to keep himself out of prison and to hurt her family. I bet Cassidy is having a ball.

From what I have seen here and on other boards, I am darn glad Cassidy is now Primarily in Meredith's custody! I imagine you are right Leanne, Michelle may be smiling down at here little girl, her mother and sister and feel some peace finally.

[5swab5]

Apparently all the following things can be cleared up then , right?

The 911 call, the discrepancy of CY's footprints, the discrepancy of where CY was found, and the discrepancy which led to a revelation of where the keys were found. (snipped)Kat

Nothing to clear up. The 911 call is one of a person, confused, disbelieving and shocked at the sight before them.

The footprint saga has been enhanced over and over, by a poster with an obvious bias.

And unless you have never misplaced your keys I don't think they are cause for concern. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

Which part of Grandparents have zero rights in N.C. do you not understand?

You can't just go before a judge, with no proof and say that I think my SIL killed my daughter, so let me raise her daughter. Linda and Meredith had to wind their cause through the court system. Which they did. Jason Lynn Young was declared Michelle & Rylan's slayer. With that info in hand they were primed to move forward.

The good news is because Jason didn't care enough to stand up for Cassidy, take a deposition and have a psych exam, that Cassidy is back in the loving arms of her maternal relatives...as I type. MOO


Then the law needs to change, although the Cooper grandparents found a way around it.

Yep, CY is with MF, I hope she is not missing her Daddy too much.
I hope they let her call him if she does, or at least be able to say goodnite to him.

Kat

[Tia]

I have reason to believe that she worried about her granddaughter during that entire time period. IMO

Of course she was. She was being advised by an attorney IMO and moved at the appropriate time.

[Kat4Eagles]

Nothing to clear up. The 911 call is one of a person, confused, disbelieving and shocked at the sight before them.

The footprint saga has been enhanced over and over, by a poster with an obvious bias.

And unless you have never misplaced you keys I don't think they are cause for concern. MOO

The 911 call is strange
The footprints are a mystery.
The initial place where CY was found has now changed 2x.
And, why the need for a s/w to explain the keys if it was only mere confusion.?
I don't expect you to be able to explain these, I know, I can't.
:shrug:

Kat

[Tia]

Nothing to clear up. The 911 call is one of a person, confused, disbelieving and shocked at the sight before them.

The footprint saga has been enhanced over and over, by a poster with an obvious bias.

And unless you have never misplaced your keys I don't think they are cause for concern. MOO

ITA Swabby. No matter how its twisted, its just not possible to make Meredith the murderer.

[5swab5]

The 911 call is strange
The footprints are a mystery.
The initial place where CY was found has now changed 2x.
And, why the need for a s/w to explain the keys if it was only mere confusion.?
I don't expect you to be able to explain these, I know, I can't.
:shrug:

Kat

I don't know what is strange about a 911 call where the caller's voice is trembling and it is obvious that she is horrified and scared to death of what she is slowly absorbing.

Explain a phone call, where the loving, caring husband and father HANGS UP on LE after the tragic event. That will take some doing.

I think the bloody footprints "all over the place", was an exaggeration. Since there aren't supposed to be any, I assume it looked like a lot of them.

Can't worry about Meredith's keys, where she thought she put them, where she didn't put them or what she remembered about them. I found mine in the freezer one time, and I had not just found a sibling beaten to oblivion. MOO

[Tia]

I don't know what is strange about a 911 call where the caller's voice is trembling and it is obvious that she is horrified and scared to death of what she is slowly absorbing.

Explain a phone call, where the loving, caring husband and father HANGS UP on LE after the tragic event. That will take some doing.

I think the bloody footprints "all over the place", was an exaggeration. Since there aren't supposed to be any, I assume it looked like a lot of them.

Can't worry about Meredith's keys, where she thought she put them, where she didn't put them or what she remembered about them. I found mine in the freezer one time, and I had not just found a sibling beaten to oblivion. MOO

Post after post about the 911 call, but Jason hangs up on LE and its ignored.

Go figure.

[Tia]

So, now...help me here. Did Meredith make the bloody footprints before or after she went through the house to try to find an alibi and luckily happened onto the ebay print outs? And did this all happen before or after she hit the jackpot by JY placing a call to her so she could frame him?

:rolleyes:

I guess, if you are going to believe the theory that Meredith murdered Michelle, that would be the way it went down.

[Nellikat]

I would hope so.
Please posters DO NOT let someone you love live with a murderer.
Do not under any circumstances let this happen.

Kat

Are you encouraging posters to break the law?
IMO, Linda and Meredith did what they could do legally and with great patience. More power to them.

[5swab5]

I guess, if you are going to believe the theory that Meredith murdered Michelle, that would be the way it went down.

You have to wonder, if Jason thought for a single second, that Meredith murdered Michelle and Rylan, why he would so nonchalantly turn over PRIMARY custody of Cassidy to Meredith. Cassidy is the only potential eye-witness.

Jason must know who did kill them, not to at least suspect Meredith and fight the custody agreement.

So, I guess that answers that question. MOO

[Tia]

You have to wonder, if Jason thought for a single second, that Meredith murdered Michelle and Rylan, why he would so nonchalantly turn over PRIMARY custody of Cassidy to Meredith. Cassidy is the only potential eye-witness.

Jason must know who did kill them, not to at least suspect Meredith and fight the custody agreement.

So, I guess that answers that question. MOO

He wouldn't just give her up if he suspected Meredith at all. His family wouldn't allow it either, also, if he suspected Meredith, he would talk to LE to take the heat off of him.

And you are right, Jason knows it wasn't Meredith, so hopefully, that will put that discussion to rest once and for all.

[Tia]

You see, that is what I would like from the people who think Meredith did it. Give me a timeline and actions -- kind of like we did for Jason. I want to see what they come up with...

...then laugh my a$$ off...

I would like to see it too. We have the search warrants, timelines, etc.......for Jason, there has been nothing put together regarding Meredith, which is why, IMO, I think that no one really believes Meredith is involved.

[Tia]

You would think, but we know the reality of this message board.

We also know the facts, and nothing would be going the way it is if Jason or LE suspected Meredith of having anything to do with Michelle's murder.

Look at it like this, it continually asked here "why did Linda wait two years if she felt Jason was a murderer"? Seems pretty simple to me, she had to, as painful as it was, follow the correct legal channels, and by doing so, she got what she wanted.

Now on the other hand, if Jason suspected Meredith of being involved in Michelle's death, why would he just hand over Cassidy? How come that question isn't being asked daily?

[Leanne Weich]

Apparently all the following things can be cleared up then , right?

The 911 call, the discrepancy of CY's footprints, the discrepancy of where CY was found, and the discrepancy which led to a revelation of where the keys were found.

I have never called anyone a murderer in this case, not even Jason..

I am still waiting.............

Clearly, with what we have seen, there is enough to get an indictment against Jason, but the fact that they won't proceed to obtain one, makes any questions, like the ones above, needing answers or at least some more "revelations".

Kat

What you perceive to be discrepancies may not be what LE and/or the DA deem discrepanices. They are used to dealing with people in shock - are you? The 911 call is suspcious to you and a few JII posters while most other people feel there is nothing suspicious at all in that phone call.

If an indictment was all that was necessary to get a conviction, I have no doubt Jason would have been arrested long ago. However, the DA is probably aware that there are people out there who will put logic aside and twist evidence to clear Jason so they are not going to take a chance on getting people like that on the jury until they have tied down the last pieces of evidence. Why it is taking so long, is beyond me but I do believe they are making headway.

[Leanne Weich]

I would hope so.
Please posters DO NOT let someone you love live with a murderer.
Do not under any circumstances let this happen.

Kat

In the event of someone living in a state where they have no rights to get access to a minor they love, do you suggest one just kidnaps the child?

[awareness]

Yeah, and here is another one to add to the list.
If you think your son in law killed your daughter,
don't let your granddaughter live with him for
2 years before you start to worry about her.

Kat

Who's to say Linda and Meredith weren't worried about her for those 2 years. Clearly they were, and were waiting for other issues (WD) to be resolved before they went after and got primary physical custody of Cassidy. To imply they weren't worried or didn't care is ludicrous.

JMO

[awareness]

What you perceive to be discrepancies may not be what LE and/or the DA deem discrepanices. They are used to dealing with people in shock - are you? The 911 call is suspcious to you and a few JII posters while most other people feel there is nothing suspicious at all in that phone call.

If an indictment was all that was necessary to get a conviction, I have no doubt Jason would have been arrested long ago. However, the DA is probably aware that there are people out there who will put logic aside and twist evidence to clear Jason so they are not going to take a chance on getting people like that on the jury until they have tied down the last pieces of evidence. Why it is taking so long, is beyond me but I do believe they are making headway.

Im sure they are making headway too. I also feel they dont owe any explanation to me as to why its taken so long. Im sure the Fisher's have been kept in the loop. I do feel they're wrapping things up though and probably will arrest Slayer within this year.

I wouldnt be surprised if LE was reading these kinds of boards just to know what kind of "JII" thought processes they could be up against during a potential trial.

JMO

[Tia]

In the event of someone living in a state where they have no rights to get access to a minor they love, do you suggest one just kidnaps the child?

YIKES! Not good advice to give on a message board is it Leanne??!!

Linda and Meredith followed their attorney's advice and obeyed the law. Had they just run to Brevard and snatched Cassidy, they'd be in jail!

[Tia]

Im sure they are making headway too. I also feel they dont owe any explanation to me as to why its taken so long. Im sure the Fisher's have been kept in the loop. I do feel they're wrapping things up though and probably will arrest Slayer within this year.

I wouldnt be surprised if LE was reading these kinds of boards just to know what kind of "JII" thought processes they could be up against during a potential trial.

JMO


Well, I don't think the "Meredith did it" scenario would fly with a jury!
JMO

[Leanne Weich]

YIKES! Not good advice to give on a message board is it Leanne??!!

Linda and Meredith followed their attorney's advice and obeyed the law. Had they just run to Brevard and snatched Cassidy, they'd be in jail!

Defintely not, Tia. I'd never recommend breaking the law but just wondered how Kat thought one should pursue custody of a minor child if the laws of your State don't give you locus standi to do so.

I'm sure Linda and Meredith both went through hell waiting until they had sufficient grounds to apply for custody. Imagine how you'd feel if you believed your s-i-l killed not only your daughter but a grandchild as well and yet you have to leave your only surviving grandchild with him. Add to that knowing the pressure he is under being the primary suspect and I'm sure they were terrified of what fate could have befallen Cassidy.

I hope they're having an amazing time together. Unless an insider gives us some news of how the visit goes, I doubt we're going to hear anything but, as the saying goes, no news is good news.

[janesdeaan]

You see, that is what I would like from the people who think Meredith did it. Give me a timeline and actions -- kind of like we did for Jason. I want to see what they come up with...

...then laugh my a$$ off...

Exactly, in all these months of analyzing this case the JII's have tossed out their "Meredith did it" millions of times, but they NEVER have gone through ANY explanation of how or why. We have discussed Jason's every move till we are blue in the face and then discussed it again. But, where is the discussion and analysis of someone else being the perp, namely Meredith ? The JII's seem to be a lazy bunch, they are perfectly happy to banter back and forth with the JDI's about how Jason couldn't have done it and innuendo that MF did, endlessly. Where are the facts to prove it ? Where is the motive ? Where is the discussion ? I would say the answer to that is NOWHERE but they just won't give it up ! Or, back it up for that matter...

[jerry50]

Im sure they are making headway too. I also feel they dont owe any explanation to me as to why its taken so long. Im sure the Fisher's have been kept in the loop. I do feel they're wrapping things up though and probably will arrest Slayer within this year.

I wouldnt be surprised if LE was reading these kinds of boards just to know what kind of "JII" thought processes they could be up against during a potential trial.

JMO


I agree tht LE is making headway. I wouldn't be surprised either if LE was reading these boards noting thought processes..

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree tht LE is making headway. I wouldn't be surprised either if LE was reading these boards noting thought processes.
<snipped>


How exactly are they making headway?

Didn't someone post the other day that this was all planned, that L E would now swoop in and snag Jason, when CY wasn't around to see him arrested?

Has that happened?
Is it happening now?
Will it happen before CY is to be returned after the weekend?

And, how do you know L E doesn't have some of the same q's some of us have?

Kat
PS: You need a new thread.

[Kat4Eagles]

What you perceive to be discrepancies may not be what LE and/or the DA deem discrepanices. They are used to dealing with people in shock - are you? The 911 call is suspcious to you and a few JII posters while most other people feel there is nothing suspicious at all in that phone call.

If an indictment was all that was necessary to get a conviction, I have no doubt Jason would have been arrested long ago. However, the DA is probably aware that there are people out there who will put logic aside and twist evidence to clear Jason so they are not going to take a chance on getting people like that on the jury until they have tied down the last pieces of evidence. Why it is taking so long, is beyond me but I do believe they are making headway.

What I perceive is being at a murder scene and not even knowing it.
A gruesome, brutal, bloody, horrific one.

Why would anyone try to defy logic to clear Jason if all the pieces are there and they fit?
It must be the pieces that don't fit, or the things that don't add up, that is causing the concern.

:shrug:
Kat

[5swab5]

What I perceive is being at a murder scene and not even knowing it.
A gruesome, brutal, bloody, horrific one.

Why would anyone try to defy logic to clear Jason if all the pieces are there and they fit?
It must be the pieces that don't fit, or the things that don't add up, that is causing the concern.

:shrug:
Kat

You want to talk logic?

'Splain to me why an innocent man would give away PRIMARY custody of his only daughter to a lady that Jason wouldn't even let see her for months on end.

I anxiously await a plausible excuse. MOO

[alterEgo©]

What I perceive is being at a murder scene and not even knowing it.
A gruesome, brutal, bloody, horrific one.

Why would anyone try to defy logic to clear Jason if all the pieces are there and they fit?
It must be the pieces that don't fit, or the things that don't add up, that is causing the concern.

:shrug:
KatExactly. Somehow a 2 yo recognized boo boos on her mom but Meredith thought Michelle had fallen.

The DA knows the evidence so far does not rise above suspicion, of which there is plenty, and therefore has not sought an indictment.

[Cardinal]

Exactly. Somehow a 2 yo recognized boo boos on her mom but Meredith thought Michelle had fallen.

The DA knows the evidence so far does not rise above suspicion, of which there is plenty, and therefore has not sought an indictment.

How do you know what Meredith thought, AE?

Also, could someone point out to me where Meredith SAID Cassidy was walking around in the house when she arrived? I'm not asking for a link to the Birchleaf SW, where Officer Bumgardner made that statement. I'm asking for a link to where Meredith said it.

TIA

[Kat4Eagles]

You want to talk logic?

'Splain to me why an innocent man would give away PRIMARY custody of his only daughter to a lady that Jason wouldn't even let see her for months on end.

I anxiously await a plausible excuse. MOO


I can not explain it and I have said so many times, along with the other things that can not be explained.

But, how about this?
Never once has a JDI admitted there may be something wrong with this case, it is always the same mantra, i's, t's, and ducks.

I would like to see one JDI step up and say..
"You know, what, Kat?
L E is definitely having a hard time proving something."

Everyone acts like it is normal to have a case go on this long.
But, it isn't normal at all.
Kat

[Cardinal]

I can not explain it and I have said so many times, along with the other things that can not be explained.

But, how about this?
Never once has a JDI admitted there may be something wrong with this case, it is always the same mantra, i's, t's, and ducks.

I would like to see one JDI step up and say..
"You know, what, Kat?
L E is definitely having a hard time proving something."

Everyone acts like it is normal to have a case go on this long.
But, it isn't normal at all.
Kat

How long is normal, Kat?

[Kat4Eagles]

Exactly. Somehow a 2 yo recognized boo boos on her mom but Meredith thought Michelle had fallen.

The DA knows the evidence so far does not rise above suspicion, of which there is plenty, and therefore has not sought an indictment.


So, for CY to know that Michelle had wounds, she had to somehow, sometime been very close to her.

I am not saying MF had one thing to do with the murder, but if you want to point out inconsistencies, that's what I am doing.

And, something else I always remembered was that the Sheriff always refers to the reason that MF went to the home, "was just one of the stories he was told."

So, what other stories were there?

Kat

[Cardinal]

So, for CY to know that Michelle had wounds, she had to somehow, sometime been very close to her.

I am not saying MF had one thing to do with the murder, but if you want to point out inconsistencies, that's what I am doing.

And, something else I always remembered was that the Sheriff always refers to the reason that MF went to the home, "was just one of the stories he was told."

So, what other stories were there?

Kat

When did he say that? I'm not challenging you - I just never heard that before.

[Kat4Eagles]

How long is normal, Kat?


Normal, would be after seeing all the search warrants, and what the detective believes, to have something happen shortly after the release of such information.

The fact that it doesn't = not normal.
It is not right.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Normal, would be after seeing all the search warrants, and what the detective believes, to have something happen shortly after the release of such information.

The fact that it doesn't = not normal.
It is not right.

Kat

I certainly agree with you that it's not right that Michelle and Rylan have waited this long for justice. But I don't know what evidence had to be analyzed and how long that takes.

FWIW, I think there were some mistakes made in the early stages of this investigation. I've said that before. And there are quite obviously some things still giving LE problems. I just wish we knew what they were.

But also FWIW, I don't think those things have anything to do with Meredith. Jason handing over primary custody to her tells me that, loud and clear.

ETA: Especially since, as some have speculated recently, IF Jason didn't make that call to Meredith to go to Birchleaf, he knows that he didn't. And if has any sense at all, that should make him suspicious of her. Apparently, it doesn't, since he's willing to allow her to raise his daughter.

[Cardinal]

What part of you make it sound like are you not understanding?

Say what?? :confused:

[awareness]

How long is normal, Kat?

Some people have a set idea of what "normal" is I guess. Im not one of those people. Each case is unique and can take various amounts of time. Im also not sure LE had all the pieces they've been waiting for (such as for example possibly a detailed financial audit/analysis). But just because this case does or doesnt fit into your definition of "normal" doesnt mean something isnt "right" about the case IMO. In their opinion, perhaps its cause for alarm - but that's in their opinion only.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Can you list what actual evidence you have against JY? Nobody seems to be able to list actual evidence. We know for a fact he had an affair but that affair didn't murder MY. What factual evidence is there?

The factual evidence has been discussed for months, confused. Maybe you missed it.

But since you want things in those terms, what factual evidence is there that Meredith murdered Michelle?

[Kat4Eagles]

When did he say that? I'm not challenging you - I just never heard that before.


Not only have I read it, but I heard it on the NC Wanted Tape in Donnie's own words, Jan 12th video, where the re~enactment is played.

The one where all the bloody footprints are actually all over the house.

Kat

We need to start a new thread., so I am going to do it, I guess, if no one else wants to.

[awareness]

When did he say that? I'm not challenging you - I just never heard that before.

Id like a link as well. If you are saying something someone said in a quote - verbatim - you should provide back up to such.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Some people have a set idea of what "normal" is I guess. Im not one of those people. Each case is unique and can take various amounts of time. Im also not sure LE had all the pieces they've been waiting for (such as for example possibly a detailed financial audit/analysis). But just because this case does or doesnt fit into your definition of "normal" doesnt mean something isnt "right" about the case IMO. In their opinion, perhaps its cause for alarm - but that's in their opinion only.

JMO

I don't have a set idea either, awareness. I'm very said that it's taking this long, and I absolutely wish this case had been wrapped up in only a few months. But that didn't happen. It doesn't mean I've given up hope.

[Kat4Eagles]

I certainly agree with you that it's not right that Michelle and Rylan have waited this long for justice. But I don't know what evidence had to be analyzed and how long that takes.

FWIW, I think there were some mistakes made in the early stages of this investigation. I've said that before. And there are quite obviously some things still giving LE problems. I just wish we knew what they were.

But also FWIW, I don't think those things have anything to do with Meredith. Jason handing over primary custody to her tells me that, loud and clear.

ETA: Especially since, as some have speculated recently, IF Jason didn't make that call to Meredith to go to Birchleaf, he knows that he didn't. And if has any sense at all, that should make him suspicious of her. Apparently, it doesn't, since he's willing to allow her to raise his daughter.


But, the other argument that can be made, is that the courts are well aware that Jason Young has been named a slayer, even if it wasn't admitted..
So, no one is challenging the fact the slayer still has a part in raising his daughter, are they?
Can't have it both ways.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Not only have I read it, but I heard it on the NC Wanted Tape in Donnie's own words, Jan 12th video, where the re~enactment is played.

The one where all the bloody footprints are actually all over the house.

Kat

We need to start a new thread., so I am going to do it, I guess, if no one else wants to.

I'll have to find time to view that NCW video again.

See you on the new thread. :)

[Cardinal]

But, the other argument that can be made, is that the courts are well aware that Jason Young has been named a slayer, even if it wasn't admitted..
So, no one is challenging the fact the slayer still has a part in raising his daughter, are they?
Can't have it both ways.

Kat

Being declared a slayer in civil court isn't sufficient to remove parental rights, Kat. Only a criminal conviction can provide grounds for that. So it isn't the same.

But I wasn't talking about the courts. I was talking about Jason apparently not being suspicious at all that Meredith was involved in Michelle's death, or he wouldn't agree to have her raise his daughter. Would he?

[alterEgo©]

How do you know what Meredith thought, AE?

Also, could someone point out to me where Meredith SAID Cassidy was walking around in the house when she arrived? I'm not asking for a link to the Birchleaf SW, where Officer Bumgardner made that statement. I'm asking for a link to where Meredith said it.

TIACuz she asked if that happened. Had to have thought it to ask about it.

All I have seen is what LE swore to a judge was true in re: Meredith's statement.

[5swab5]

Exactly. Somehow a 2 yo recognized boo boos on her mom but Meredith thought Michelle had fallen. (snipped)


Somehow, a married man falls plum to his knees in resignation upon hearing that his wife has been murdered, he doesn't ask "what", "how", "when" or anything.

Somehow, a married man has enough time to talk to his sweetie on the phone, but will not return a call from the mother of his pregnant wife.

Somehow, a loving, caring father hangs up on LE instead of asking questions.

Somehow, a husband attends the funeral, moves back to Brevard and never looks back.

Somehow, a husband and father doesn't hound LE for answers or participate in ANY way in the investigation of his wife and child's murder.

Somehow, a husband avoids every celebration of his wife's life.

Somehow, a husband marks the anniversary of his wife's death by vacationing in Puerto Rico.

Somehow, a man trolls on the internet for babes using his daughter as bait.

Somehow a man allows himself to be declared a slayer.

Somehow, a father cedes PRIMARY custody of his only daughter, to the very people that he has dissed at every turn.

AND Somehow these things, to mention a few, are overlooked and people insist on knowing why Meredith couldn't remember where she put her keys after discovering Michelle's body. :shrug:

MOO

[Stellagant]

Being declared a slayer in civil court isn't sufficient to remove parental rights, Kat. Only a criminal conviction can provide grounds for that. So it isn't the same.

But I wasn't talking about the courts. I was talking about Jason apparently not being suspicious at all that Meredith was involved in Michelle's death, or he wouldn't agree to have her raise his daughter. Would he?

If Jason is innocent, why would he be suspicious of Meredith? I doubt his friends or family became suspicious of Meredith until after they listened to the 911 call. I have no idea if Jason ever listened to that call. Do you?

[Stellagant]

Can you list what actual evidence you have against JY? Nobody seems to be able to list actual evidence. We know for a fact he had an affair but that affair didn't murder MY. What factual evidence is there?

The affair is all some posters need, apparently.

[Kat4Eagles]

If Jason is innocent, why would he be suspicious of Meredith? I doubt his friends or family became suspicious of Meredith until after they listened to the 911 call. I have no idea if Jason ever listened to that call. Do you?

I started the new thread, if you could move over, and bring these last few posts!
Kat

Thank you, I will ask CW to close this.

We moved>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Leanne Weich]

What I perceive is being at a murder scene and not even knowing it.
A gruesome, brutal, bloody, horrific one.

Why would anyone try to defy logic to clear Jason if all the pieces are there and they fit?
It must be the pieces that don't fit, or the things that don't add up, that is causing the concern.

:shrug:
Kat

If you enter a home expecting to find someone murdered, you may put 1 + 1 together and get 2. If, however, you walk in and find someone lying on the floor in a bloody mess, I'd guess your first instinct would be that the person has fallen and hurt themself rather severely. I'm not sure you'd immediately think murder.

The pieces obviously don't fit because we only have a few pieces which have been released via the SWs. There is no doubt, imo, that something is missing but, what it is, I have no clue.

I still believe the DA is nervous that he may get a juror who is incapable of critical thinking and who is lacking in the discernment dept. because, as we all know, they only get one bite at the apple.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're still trying to nail down the size 10 Franklins. If they cannot come up with a plausible explanation for that footprint, Jason will in all likelihood, walk.

[alterEgo©]

Somehow, a married man falls plum to his knees in resignation upon hearing that his wife has been murdered, he doesn't ask "what", "how", "when" or anything.

Somehow, a married man has enough time to talk to his sweetie on the phone, but will not return a call from the mother of his pregnant wife.

Somehow, a loving, caring father hangs up on LE instead of asking questions.

Somehow, a husband attends the funeral, moves back to Brevard and never looks back.

Somehow, a husband and father doesn't hound LE for answers or participate in ANY way in the investigation of his wife and child's murder.

Somehow, a husband avoids every celebration of his wife's life.

Somehow, a husband marks the anniversary of his wife's death by vacationing in Puerto Rico.

Somehow, a man trolls on the internet for babes using his daughter as bait.

Somehow, a father cedes PRIMARY custody of his only daughter, to the very people that he has dissed at every turn.

AND Somehow these things, to mention a few, are overlooked and people insist on knowing why Meredith couldn't remember where she put her keys after discovering Michelle's body. :shrug:

MOOJust because your list is a)easily explained away and has been over and over and over again or b)outright FALSE or c)a spin, doesn't mean we can't discuss other aspects from the SW or media stories about this case.

[Leanne Weich]

The affair is all some posters need, apparently.

I've yet to see anyone say Jason is guilty because he had an affair. I have, however, seen people accuse Meredith for no reason whatsoever.