Friday, Feb. 13, # 1 [Archive] - Page 3 - In Session Message Boards

Calla

02-13-2009, 02:19 PM

Just a diversion from the Ron / Misty feeding frenzy ....... does anyone know how accessible the water there would be to a small child? The only reason I ask, is because my sister at the age of 4 walked a mile in the middle of winter sleepwalking with no shoes, freezing her feet. She'd never done it before, or since.

Guess you all forgot to deadbolt the door too.?

just kidding with ya.

I use to sleepwalk. Scary thing really.
The water is quite close from news reports I have seen.

kayemm

02-13-2009, 02:19 PM

Good god, I thought this thread was nasty yesterday, what's with the judgement, the santimony, the 'well *I* never lost a kid' attitude, how horrible.

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:19 PM

Says.....you?

Florida

§ 794. 05
Unlawful sexual activity with certain minors if someone age 24 or older engages in sexual activity with someone age 16 or 17.

Once again, this is not about statutory rape. Leave that up to the state of Fl if they want to prosecute.

It's about a missing child. Haleigh Cummings, remember?

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:23 PM

Once again, this is not about statutory rape. Leave that up to the state of Fl if they want to prosecute.

It's about a missing child. Haleigh Cummings, remember?

Well Ron is Haleigh's father, remember? And to my knowledge he has not been cleared yet. Anyway....how's your weather? :smile:

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 02:23 PM

Why would they stop if they haven't found her?

I think they mean (should they need to search tomorrow), possibly finding her today, Which I hope is the case. They are still asking for volunteers. JMO I keep thinking about those underground hide a way caves women have been hid in, a footprint by the lake. I am sure LE has a tight lid on any transients reportedly seen around town as well.

I pray she is found safe and soon.,

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 02:23 PM

Think how boring it would be if we all agreed on everything!

It would be more boring if CW closed the board..

bchand

02-13-2009, 02:23 PM

For anyonee interested in an update -

4 p.m. Special Program: The Search for Haleigh

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- First Coast News will be airing a one-hour special program today starting at 4 p.m.

"The Search for Haleigh" will include the very latest information from law enforcement on the scene.

We'll bring you up to date on new clues and leads that have unfolded as the search continues throughout the day.

We have reporters covering all angles of the search.

Join us at 4:00 on WTLV and on firstcoastnews.com.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131165&catid=3

ortiga

02-13-2009, 02:24 PM

Guess you all forgot to deadbolt the door too.?

just kidding with ya.

I use to sleepwalk. Scary thing really.
The water is quite close from news reports I have seen.

I thought the Dad said 5-8 blocks. Can't rule out sleepwalking, but he also said that she was afraid of the water, because of having been resuscitated once, and she was afraid of the dark.

I would lean towards some associate or "friend" of the family or someone who had a key and used to live there, or acquaintance of the landlord. Did they ever say how long the pair had rented this house?

BorderCollieMom

02-13-2009, 02:24 PM

JD1974

02-13-2009, 02:28 PM

I am the last peron that has ever entertained this guy...but he sis serve up a theory that I hadnt thought of. Anyone wanna pick this apart instead of the family ? It is a wild theory. Any takers ?

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISSING/publicr/Haleigh%20Ann-Marie%20Cummings%20case%20673.htm

I don't know if it is wild. The first day I thought about the mothers involvement, or at least someone in her family. No idea why, just first thing that came to my head. Oh yeah there were a few reasons why, trashing the dad, like setting up a reason they took her for sympathy.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 02:30 PM

I think they mean (should they need to search tomorrow), possibly finding her today, Which I hope is the case. They are still asking for volunteers. JMO I keep thinking about those underground hide a way caves women have been hid in, a footprint by the lake. I am sure LE has a tight lid on any transients reportedly seen around town as well.

I pray she is found safe and soon.,

I pray for the same. Sweet little girl.. Are there caves in that area? Not familiar with floridian terain. I wonder if she was on foot, if he/whoever had her was on foot, if maybe there was a car or something parked else where.

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:30 PM

Well said, and I guess the fall can come hard for those high up....:sad:
jmo

Ain't it the truth Candy? These poor people have a missing child, yet their human flaws are the only topic?

I keep praying for some good news about little Haleigh.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:32 PM

There just seems to be nothing to go on right now. Maybe some evidence from the home will reveal something.

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 02:32 PM

For the record....I don't have a problem with anyone here. Debate is good!

Debate is great unless someone is entrenched in their opinion and can't explore all options.

Let's try to be open and accept the fact that there are problems with the dad and girlfriend/babysitter. That's NOT casting stones at the family. :confused:

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:32 PM

Exactly MM! What does statutory rape have to do with Haleigh missing anyways?:confused:
Hi Happy! I don't know, but some people will make it have everything to do with it.

desmom

02-13-2009, 02:33 PM

Latest on Haleigh: Leads filter in, lab work a priority
Volunteers join in Putnam County search
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-02-13/story/day_4_leads_filter_in_evidence_lab_work_a_priority _in_haleighs_abd

Investigators still searching for Haleigh Cummings
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-missing-florida-girl-haleigh-021309,0,5976597.story

200 volunteers searchc for missing girl
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/021309volunteers_search_for_missing_girl

Officials Reinterview Family Members Of Missing Girl
Search Area Expanded; Volunteers Help Authorities
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18709144/detail.html#-

Amber Alert -- Search For Haleigh Intensifies
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/2/13/amber_alert__day_4_in_search_for_haleigh.html

JD1974

02-13-2009, 02:34 PM

I believe the Florida law that states that is against the law to have relations with a preson age 17 or younger if you are over the age of 24 has been posted here already, so it's not slander, it's fact.

No sane adult would disagree that moving in with someone after knowing them for a month is a clear sign of immaturity.

I fail to see anything vicious. Again, she is trying to justify their disregard for the laws based off her own disregard for the law (backed by her smoking comment), justify his drug offenses by saying that we can't judge him by his past, and his preying upon a minor who should be in school based off her own experiences... find me a reputable adult that agrees that any of these are healthy views...

Reputable as in how? I see she isn't in jail for anything, neither is her husband. I am not in jail and neither is my husband. Preying on a minor makes it sounds like this girl was 12, she is in the 18th year of her life!

Remy

02-13-2009, 02:34 PM

How old do you think babysitters tend to be? I can assure you, it is difficult to find an 18 yr old babysitter. Why is she unqualified? Because she is 17?

Not to mention what teenagers are supposed to do when they get pregnant.

Are we now supposed to have people over the age of 18 with teenage moms at all times?

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:35 PM

Really, I meant to post on your post earlier about this, but don't look in my state. We've got our fair share, too. I think media is starting to hone in on the Fl. cases because they CAN get so much more media content and get to run on the "if it bleeds, it leads" principle.

Lavenia, we know it's everywhere. Just not publicized like it is in this case.

This one is just so soon after little Caylee that I think they are really going after it.

:sad:

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 02:35 PM

Are you saying we all need to agree or the board will close?

Lord no...But we keep on being mean and talking trash, that might do it...:wink:

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 02:36 PM

I pray for the same. Sweet little girl.. Are there caves in that area? Not familiar with floridian terain. I wonder if she was on foot, if he/whoever had her was on foot, if maybe there was a car or something parked else where.

I am thinking boat. Don't know about caves, but there were a few crimes where women/girls escaped from a hole dug in the ground where they were held hostage. No luck with the k-9 dogs that I know of either. Just vanished. I think the Dad said lake about blocks away from home. Just too scary.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:37 PM

Yeah, like a meth lab???

maybe! I would think something might have leaked about this being a drug deal though. But then again...

num1barb

02-13-2009, 02:39 PM

I am really embarrassed to say that I don't lock my doors...I live in a pretty big city, with a college also. Well I take that back, because last night I did go back there and lock the door because it makes me nervous hearing about all these kids disappearing out of houses while parents are sleeping. I guess you really never think it will happen to you? My thoughts changed last night literally.

I live in a very small town, one red light, no grocery store, two convenience stores. I lock my doors every night, and sometimes even when I'm home (particularly if I'm going to shower or do laundry or anything else noisy). My vehicle is always locked too.

I'm glad your thoughts changed. I get picked on by friends and family for my "obsession" with keeping things locked up tight, but I've lived in some unsavory places in my lifetime and it's just a habit I picked up.
Makes me feel safer :)

Tracian

02-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Yeah, like a meth lab???

Call me silly, but I think if they found a meth lab or evidence of a meth lab in the house, somebody would be in jail by now. LE certainly would not leave the 3 year old with the father in that case either.

omsk99

02-13-2009, 02:40 PM

maybe! I would think something might have leaked about this being a drug deal though. But then again...

Ugh, there is no way it's a drug deal or anything related to drugs or a ransom, just a sick "individual" with s a sick mind and no human feelings
or compassion or values attached :mad:

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 02:41 PM

Call me silly, but I think if they found a meth lab or evidence of a meth lab in the house, somebody would be in jail by now. LE certainly would not leave the 3 year old with the father in that case either.

I agree and I don't think they would be camping in the yard..lol

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:42 PM

Ugh, there is no way it's a drug deal or anything related to drugs or a ransom, just a sick "individual" with s a sick mind and no human feelings
or compassion or values attached :mad:

Well until they clear the parents, I can't get past them. WHy do you think the door was propped?

JD1974

02-13-2009, 02:43 PM

Im with you Stickybeak..since the dogs tracked her to the waters edge..a boat may well have been the vehicle used....Hopefully the dogs get access to all boats..sniff them all out to try and catch Haleigh's scent.

LMS

I think a boat could have been used also...that is even worse because who knows where the boat landed..that looks like a lot of water around there.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:44 PM

The more pressing question should be Who Cares?

You do. You took the time to respond to a post that was done about a half hour ago. :tongueside:

Tracian

02-13-2009, 02:44 PM

Well then by your admission, your husband most likely commited statutory rape and would be as a result, a sex offender, convicted or not.

Just because someone smoked pot when they were growing up doesn't make smoking pot legal.

Just because someone had sex with a minor growing up doesn't make sex with a minor legal.

Just because you smoked as a minor doesn't make smoking as a minor legal.

You can try to justify all these things because you did them, but the bottom line is they were illegal when you did them, and they are illegal now.

JMO

You really have no idea what you are talking about. As far as her husband being a sex offender...it depends on the state they lived in for the age of consent; not to mention what you have posted is just cruel, and has nothing to do with this case.

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 02:47 PM

Really, can you tell me the laws back when I was doing these things, back in 1990? The pot thing, well I never smoked pot so the other ones would be fine. I do believe I couldn't purchase the cigarettes but for some reason my school let us smoke, so they must have been breaking the law also...shame on them.

Shift the blame. It's always the fault of someone else. Stand up and take responsibility for your life.

I only wish the parents and girlfriend of Haleigh would do the same. :angry:

Deb7

02-13-2009, 02:47 PM

Well until they clear the parents, I can't get past them. WHy do you think the door was propped?

I know, I can't get past the fact there wasn't any forced entry. Something isn't adding up right.

desmom

02-13-2009, 02:47 PM

--snipped--

The man is a sex offender & drug offender.

Link please. TIA

Motomom

02-13-2009, 02:48 PM

I think a boat could have been used also...that is even worse because who knows where the boat landed..that looks like a lot of water around there.

If there was a boat, it would either still be there or on someone's trailer. They would probably have had to drag the boat up to the trailer, so there would/should be marks where they took the boat out right? What kind of waterway is it? They could have travelled down much farther than right across the way too. I think boat is as good a theory as any right now.

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Point of fact, it was against the law in 1990 in every state to buy or posess cigarettes under the age of 18 years old.

April, everything you're writing is true. While I'm not here to cast stones at other, it's not difficult to see the problems in this case. And they begin at home. It's that simple. :tonguewag:

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:48 PM

Let's pray this child is found, soon!!
Let's forget about ages and pot smoking and have good thoughts that this little girl will be found safe and unharmed.....

Amen Kitty! Haleigh is missing and I pray she is found safe.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 02:49 PM

Point of fact, it was against the law in 1990 in every state to buy or posess cigarettes under the age of 18 years old.

What does this have to do with Haleigh missing though?

march27

02-13-2009, 02:49 PM

So technically if FL law says it is illegal that would make him a SO as well? Hmmm... interesting.

So now we are resorting to calling this man, whos daughter is Missing, a sex offender. Wow

omsk99

02-13-2009, 02:50 PM

Well until they clear the parents, I can't get past them. WHy do you think the door was propped?

For a faster and quieter way out, while carrying a child. Why, do you think the parents staged it? What possible reason can they have to harm their child? If they didn't want to take care of Haleigh, they could give her back to Mom or grandparents. I am convinced the father had nothing to do with this, his grief is so overwhelming (besides the fact that he has an alibi that LE confirmed). As for the GF, I get the impression she knows more than she is saying, for the fear of people (especially Ronald) getting angry at her, but I do not think she was directly or intentionally involved. JMO

ortiga

02-13-2009, 02:50 PM

Shift the blame. It's always the fault of someone else. Stand up and take responsibility for your life.

I only wish the parents and girlfriend of Haleigh would do the same. :angry:

Huh? Now the girfriend of Haleigh is to blame? Is that one of those little girls from the kindergarten?

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:51 PM

I know, I can't get past the fact there wasn't any forced entry. Something isn't adding up right.

Thats where I am too. Once that gets cleared up, my mind can think elsewhere.

FoxySly

02-13-2009, 02:51 PM

Oh no Rick, that wasn't your assertion. You said she was unqualified because the child went missing under her watch.

That was your criteria. Own it.

I babysit almost every weekend from the time I was 12 to 15. Thank GOD I never lost a child.

I started babysitting at 12 also. One family in Las Vegas had 4 Children I charged .50 cents an hour, $1. after midnight.

The Summer I was 14 I had a live in babysitting job to 2 young Children & also had my Baby Brother with me.

I also don't see much about the age 17 vs. 24 either but than I was married off to a pervert older then my bio dad a day & a month after my 17th birthday. Both my Granny & grandmother were married at 15.

Not all of us were lucky to be born into the Cleaver family.

Sly

~

omsk99

02-13-2009, 02:52 PM

Point of fact, it was against the law in 1990 in every state to buy or posess cigarettes under the age of 18 years old.

How is any of this related to the missing Haleigh??? Can we stop the non-stop judging of people here, please?..

Motomom

02-13-2009, 02:52 PM

In the Lunsford case, they insisted the door was locked too, didn't they? And no forced entry.

People must think they lock and they actually don't.

I wonder, when Ronald came home did he have to unlock the front door? Was that one locked?

I believe the girlfriend was standing in the open door when he pulled into the driveway. I also think that he didn't answer her calls because he was already on his way there and was basically pulling into the driveway while she was calling. He also said IIRC if my daughter is missing, you shouldn't be calling me, you should be calling 911. That could be why the comment he made about her came into play. I'd have been spitting mad had my child been stolen from her bed and no 911 call was made.

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 02:52 PM

If there was a boat, it would either still be there or on someone's trailer. They would probably have had to drag the boat up to the trailer, so there would/should be marks where they took the boat out right? What kind of waterway is it? They could have travelled down much farther than right across the way too. I think boat is as good a theory as any right now.

I believe the LE said 2 pedophiles lived across the river. Possibly they use the river as a means of transportation by boat, some places in florida and other states have public docks close by shopping, etc.
Just a thought. JMO

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:52 PM

Thanks MrLucky!

So they aren't sure yet...

I hope they can find her alive today, and if not, to keep on searching.

Prayers for Haleigh...

Looks like they had a pretty good turnout of volunteers too.

God bless 'em.

:sad:

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 02:52 PM

The way I understand it, is that it isn't illegal to smoke the cigarettes, but to buy them under 18 or for someone else to buy them for a minor is illegal.
All this reminds me of a story. When my now 39 year old son was in high school,17, in ROTC, he made his older brother and his friends a bet he could buy beer. He went into a neighborhood store and sure enough come out with a six pack.
I overheard several of them laughing about it so I got in my car and made a trip to the store and said to the cashier. Today you sold a 17 year old a 6 pack of beer and I just want you to know the next time it happens I will call the law. The cashier was very apologetic and wanted to know what he look like so it would not happen again. I looked him right in the eye and said to him, no way am I going to tell you who or give you a description.
The following week end after a big home coming football game my son,walk in throws a couple of 6 packs on the counter and the first words out of the cashiers mouth was, need to see your ID. My son stutter`s around and says to the cashier, you remember me,I buy it here all the time. I left my wallet in a friends car. the cashier stated, no ID, No beer.
When he was an adult and now in LE, I told him at a big family gathering and he burst out laughing. Mom, I can`t believe you done that to me,turned and looked at his brothers and said, yes I can. LOL.

Point being,kids are kids and most grow up and become good parents and very responsible. Gives these two a chance.They have given none of us a reason not to believe them. They are devastated,send them prayer their way.

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 02:54 PM

For a faster and quieter way out, while carrying a child. Why, do you think the parents staged it? What possible reason can they have to harm their child? If they didn't want to take care of Haleigh, they could give her back to Mom or grandparents. I am convinced the father had nothing to do with this, his grief is so overwhelming (besides the fact that he has an alibi that LE confirmed). As for the GF, I get the impression she knows more than she is saying, for the fear of people (especially Ronald) getting angry at her, but I do not think she was directly or intentionally involved. JMO

I think the g/f had both doors open while she was outside with a friend and wondered away from the back door and someone went in and took her....I think she had the doors open so she could hear the kids if they got up..This is MOO....
The g/f knows more than she is telling.IMO

omsk99

02-13-2009, 02:54 PM

Shift the blame. It's always the fault of someone else. Stand up and take responsibility for your life.

I only wish the parents and girlfriend of Haleigh would do the same. :angry:

Do what? Stop smoking? That's going to bring Haleigh back sooner and prevent it from happening in the future? :rolleyes:

Pat

02-13-2009, 02:54 PM

So long, folks. I predict there will be a massacre when CW gets wind of this thread. Too bad, when she so nicely opened on request just yesterday.

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 02:55 PM

I think the police should stop wasting resources looking for this child and immediately arrest the gf for smoking

(sarcasm off)
Ah nana, you just made me smile. I hope they find this sweetheart safe.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 02:55 PM

For a faster and quieter way out, while carrying a child. Why, do you think the parents staged it? What possible reason can they have to harm their child? If they didn't want to take care of Haleigh, they could give her back to Mom or grandparents. I am convinced the father had nothing to do with this, his grief is so overwhelming (besides the fact that he has an alibi that LE confirmed). As for the GF, I get the impression she knows more than she is saying, for the fear of people (especially Ronald) getting angry at her, but I do not think she was directly or intentionally involved. JMO

omsky.....I always agree with you on these things, but this time I don't know. Parents seem to be behind these cases more often then not, and I don't understand the door being open when it was always locked. (Ron personally would do this.) How brazen would it be for a SO to go in and take the child that was so close to the adult? Not that it hasn't happened, but it's the exception to the rule.

PBJMOM4

02-13-2009, 02:55 PM

Wow!
I think everyone needs a 5 minute time out!
{perhaps write a letter to Casey} ::running::::

CelticDawn

02-13-2009, 02:57 PM

And by your admission are also bi-polar.

That doesnt make someone not able to tell the difference between right and wrong....bipolar does not mean stupid...nor does it mean diminished mental capacity....so whats the deal ????

Just like being a psyco doesnt make Casey unaccountable...

Being a narcissist and a psyco doesnt excuse Cindy

Being depressed doesnt excuse george

Having academic problems doesnt excuse baez

etc.....

marshmallow

02-13-2009, 02:58 PM

anything new on Haleigh?

PBJMOM4

02-13-2009, 02:59 PM

anything new on Haleigh?

Believe they are searching behind the home, more than that, I have not heard. NY stations mostly talking about plane crash

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:00 PM

They did stop twice without finding Caylee..

Oh I know they did adn that bothered me then too. I understand why they did though. In this case, I hope they search until they find her.

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:00 PM

No, do the math here...I'll walk you through it.

She had two children prior to turning 18. That means the oldest she could have been when she had her first child was 16, which would make him 21 at that time.

I am unaware of any state that legally allows sexual relationships between a 21 year old and a 16 year old.

Then perhaps you don't know how the laws work.
For example:

Delaware
The age of consent in Delaware is 18, but it is legal for teenagers aged 16 and 17 to engage in sexual intercourse as long as the older partner is younger than 30.

District of Columbia
The age of consent in the District of Columbia is 16 with a close in age exemption for those within four years of age

Maine
The age of consent in Maine is 16. Teenagers aged 14 and 15 may engage in sexual intercourse with partners who are less than 5 years older.

Pennsylvania
The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16 years of age. Teenagers aged 13, 14 and 15 may legally engage in sexual activity with partners who are less than 4 years older.

Utah
The age of consent in Utah is 18. It is however legal for minors aged 16 and 17 to engage in sexual activity with partners less than 10 years older.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#South_Carolina

It is not quite as cut and dry as some of you would like to think.

desmom

02-13-2009, 03:01 PM

It goes into the question of morality and probable suspects.

First, dad was clearly morally deficient as he engaged in a relationship with a minor in violation of Florida law. Second, he has a string of drug offenses in his past. Third, either he, or some other adult bought and provided cigarettes to his girlfriend, which is contributing to the delinquency of a minor and again in violation of Florida law.

--snipped

Link please! TIA

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 03:01 PM

Just a diversion from the Ron / Misty feeding frenzy ....... does anyone know how accessible the water there would be to a small child? The only reason I ask, is because my sister at the age of 4 walked a mile in the middle of winter sleepwalking with no shoes, freezing her feet. She'd never done it before, or since.

I think her father said it was like 4 or 5 blocks which is not that far if she did wander off. It's not inconceivable to me.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:02 PM

It goes into the question of morality and probable suspects.
snipped.

So basically nothing. Thank you. Smoking underage has nothing to do with Haleigh missing.

desmom

02-13-2009, 03:02 PM

anything new on Haleigh?

I posted some news links about 1/2 hour ago http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?f=606

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:03 PM

anything new on Haleigh?

No but we can deduce obviously we can rule out judgemental moral issues as so many testaments have been given being of similar character and our kids are all safe and sound.

So trying to dig up "dirt" and being sanctimonous and righteous has not leant one bit of credence to point in the direction of this father.

boo

02-13-2009, 03:04 PM

What does this have to do with Haleigh missing though?

I can answer that, Moto. Nothing!!

What a bunch of sanctimonious, holier than thou phooey. Although I didn't smoke in high school, others did and did it legally and the school even had a smoking section for the kids. Do I agree with it? No, but who cares if she smokes. Haleigh is missing and it makes not once lick of difference if the dad smoked, the gf smoked or the neighbors smoked.

jewel6

02-13-2009, 03:05 PM

I am the last peron that has ever entertained this guy...but he sis serve up a theory that I hadnt thought of. Anyone wanna pick this apart instead of the family ? It is a wild theory. Any takers ?

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISSING/publicr/Haleigh%20Ann-Marie%20Cummings%20case%20673.htm

wow. I have to admit bio mother and fiance had my mind working. Its just a thought though. jmo anything is possible on this one. jmo

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 03:05 PM

whoa......way out of line, insulting, vicious and uncalled for not to mention the slander of the sex offender remark.
ita!........

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:05 PM

I think her father said it was like 4 or 5 blocks which is not that far if she did wander off. It's not inconceivable to me.

The father said between 5 and 8 blocks. I disagree that she wandered off. I guess it is possible, as in anything is possible with these missing cases, but I doubt that happened. JMO though. How long does one sleepwalk before waking? I know I've heard others say it only happened once and never againg. My brother use to sleepwalk a little bit.. and did more recently and I won't tell you what he did :laugh:. But he did do it when he was younger.. sleepwalking is just so weird. I've heard people wake up down the street an all. My brother never left the house and if she were sleep walking, I wouldn't think she'd use that back door, especially if it were locked.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:07 PM

wow. I have to admit bio mother and fiance had my mind working. Its just a thought though. jmo anything is possible on this one. jmo

Jewel, did you see the interview with the bio mother's boyfriend?

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:08 PM

No but we can deduce obviously we can rule out judgemental moral issues as so many testaments have been given being of similar character and our kids are all safe and sound.

So trying to dig up "dirt" and being sanctimonous and righteous has not leant one bit of credence to point in the direction of this father.
^5 neffy, What we find out when our kids are adults makes you want to slap your own face.
I could have sworn my boys were perfect... NOT

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:09 PM

Jewel, did you see the interview with the bio mother's boyfriend?

I'm not Jewel, but I didn't see it, can you point me to it?

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 03:10 PM

looks like TES might leave today, another missing boy in Arkansas

http://texasequusearch.org/2009/02/arceneaux-dominick-camden-ar-021309/

Good Lord, is this ever going to stop? Seems like every day, another missing child:sad:

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:10 PM

I'm not Jewel, but I didn't see it, can you point me to it?

I'm sorry ortiga, I don't have it. I think I saw it on tv. I'm thinking it may be in the links thread though.

Remy

02-13-2009, 03:11 PM

He, an adult with life experiences, took advantage of a naïve child with no life experiences, who had not lived long enough to develop a set of morals, and who was not mature enough to realize she was being preyed upon by someone who was clearly morally bankrupt.

You moved in after a month, that clearly shows how immature and irrational you were at that age.

This further clarifies the underdeveloped moral compass and immaturity that led to your defense of the actions stated above. Next thing you will say is ‘everyone does drugs at some time, what’s the big deal’.

The man is a sex offender & drug offender. Please quit trying to justify his actions based off the sins of your past.

Seriously, is today Sunday? Thanks for the sermon but the board is to discuss the case as per TOS rules not the posters. Just a friendly reminder :smile:

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:11 PM

In the Lunsford case I believe the grandparents did not remember to lock the door. I remember specifically the door was not locked. He tried it and just walked in.

I thought he habitually used another door. But then they did think that normally unused door was locked, but it wasn't. But I don`t recall Mark coming in that door.

sinagua

02-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Most of the interviews are on You Tube.

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Good Lord, is this ever going to stop? Seems like every day, another missing child:sad:

I posted a thread for him the other day. I think this little boy drowned.

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:12 PM

I'm sorry ortiga, I don't have it. I think I saw it on tv. I'm thinking it may be in the links thread though.

OK thanks, moto.

Remy

02-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Once again, this is not about statutory rape. Leave that up to the state of Fl if they want to prosecute.

It's about a missing child. Haleigh Cummings, remember?

Those LE are going to be really prioritizing here between possible statutory rape, under age smoking and oh ya A Missing Child!

ETA: I wonder if judging every aspect of a persons life, no when it happened, is the reason why we don't hear from the parents of all missing parents?

At least they called 911.

marshmallow

02-13-2009, 03:14 PM

Believe they are searching behind the home, more than that, I have not heard. NY stations mostly talking about plane crash

the plane crash is about an hour from me if you go the speed limit. my heart goes out to the families of all who were killed or injured.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 03:14 PM

I hope Greta will do a walk-through of the home so I can really understand what is what.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 03:15 PM

Wrong.
As for the time lapse....I logged on late & try to read all posts.

I was just teasing with ya...

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:15 PM

^5 neffy, What we find out when our kids are adults makes you want to slap your own face.
I could have sworn my boys were perfect... NOT

LOL my kids were perfect. Perfectly childish. (erm they're children)

Well we learned we can throw out all the scandal attributed to this family as it leads no where.

I have no idea if they do have involvement but what was dug up sure isn't leading there and is just fodder.

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 03:16 PM

I hope Greta will do a walk-through of the home so I can really understand what is what.

I would like that too...

Kelly3820

02-13-2009, 03:17 PM

I hope Greta will do a walk-through of the home so I can really understand what is what.

Me too! I also would like a fact based time line from Greta. She is pretty good along Mark Furman going thru the details and facts as we know them.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by BorderCollieMom
I am the last peron that has ever entertained this guy...but he sis serve up a theory that I hadnt thought of. Anyone wanna pick this apart instead of the family ? It is a wild theory. Any takers ?

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISS...case%20673.htm

Thanks, now this is interesting.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 03:17 PM

I would like that too...

YAY! We agree kitty! :laugh:

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:19 PM

I would like that too...

I third that. I imagine nobody will be allowed in there until it's cleared by LE

march27

02-13-2009, 03:20 PM

I hope to God it was the Bio mom who took this child. I cant imagine the fear the parents are going through or what this poor little girl is going through. I really see this as an outside obduction and pray it was a family member and not some freak pedofile.

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:21 PM

march27

02-13-2009, 03:21 PM

Is there spell check on this board? I might need to go back to school...

desmom

02-13-2009, 03:22 PM

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:24 PM

Can you paraphrase a bit? That link is asking me for money. TIASorry, I was just reading what was being said about Haleigh. That was all I read.

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:25 PM

At the risk of repeating myself....
KEYS people, KEYS!
This is a rental property.
Any number of people could (still) have keys.
Former tenants, any of those tenants friends or family members...preverts included.

Members or friends of the Cummings themselves. :glare:

Excellent point. Does anyone know how long they lived there? I know there have been several cases where former tenants were the 'target' and innocent new tenants were the victims.

Pag Boi

02-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Says.....you?

Florida

§ 794. 05
Unlawful sexual activity with certain minors if someone age 24 or older engages in sexual activity with someone age 16 or 17.

is the GF a "certain minor?"

The law doesn't state "ANY" minor for a reason JMOO

JD1974

02-13-2009, 03:25 PM

wow. I have to admit bio mother and fiance had my mind working. Its just a thought though. jmo anything is possible on this one. jmo

I was thinking the bio mom may not know but someone in the family did it. Honestly, I am only basing this on the grandma saying the stuff about the dad, kind of like giving reasons she should of been taken away. Once again though I could totally be reading it wrong and maybe they are just as frustrated and want to lash out at the dad because it was his house that she was taken from.

It is so hard to not read into statements that are made due to shock, I am really trying my best but some just stick out.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 03:27 PM

desmom

02-13-2009, 03:28 PM

--snipped--

So let's keep it real okay?

Keep it real? This is the Haleigh Cummings Missing forum and not the smoking age forum.

Please take it to PM or Open Court so the forum can stay open. Thank you.

Photos: The search for Haleigh Cummings
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-haleigh-cummings-photos,0,705399.photogallery

JD1974

02-13-2009, 03:29 PM

The father said between 5 and 8 blocks. I disagree that she wandered off. I guess it is possible, as in anything is possible with these missing cases, but I doubt that happened. JMO though. How long does one sleepwalk before waking? I know I've heard others say it only happened once and never againg. My brother use to sleepwalk a little bit.. and did more recently and I won't tell you what he did :laugh:. But he did do it when he was younger.. sleepwalking is just so weird. I've heard people wake up down the street an all. My brother never left the house and if she were sleep walking, I wouldn't think she'd use that back door, especially if it were locked.

My question is the water 5-6 blocks as in having to drive there, is there a difference if you were to just walk through the wooded area?

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:30 PM

is the GF a "certain minor?"

The law doesn't state "ANY" minor for a reason JMOO

The problem is this, IMO.

We don't know their birthdays, for one.

For example:

9 months out of the year, my hubby is 5 years older than me, for three months he is only 4 years older than me.

Another thing:

We don't know if the GF is emancipated; or if the term 'certain' means without parental consent.

kitty1182

02-13-2009, 03:30 PM

YAY! We agree kitty! :laugh:

:biggrin:

I would also like to know more about the blanket she washed she kept talking about..

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:31 PM

Sorry, I was just reading what was being said about Haleigh. That was all I read.

OH understood but that link took me no where but to a membership page.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:33 PM

My question is the water 5-6 blocks as in having to drive there, is there a difference if you were to just walk through the wooded area?

Hmm not sure. I live in a neighborhood, we have blocks. It didn't look like blocks there, but maybe. are there arial shots of the home and the wooded area behind it?

ETA.. blocks are blocks whether you drive them or walk them, the distance is the same. not sure if that's what you were asking or not though.

Rick777

02-13-2009, 03:33 PM

:biggrin:

I would also like to know more about the blanket she washed she kept talking about..

Yeah she really went off about the blanket in one interview, then it went quiet. Kinda like talk about the van. There's not alot of info leaking like there is in the Caylee case...darnit!

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 03:33 PM

Pag Boi

02-13-2009, 03:34 PM

Wrong.
As for the time lapse....I logged on late & try to read all posts.

Do not apologize for that. Puhhleaze. This is a message board. There are time limits on responding to posts. 30 minutes? LOL

~jomomma~

02-13-2009, 03:34 PM

DANG!!! i pop back in to see 9 pages gone by....i'm thinking 'something BIG musta happened!!!'

after skimming throught real quick, i see not a DARN thing new happened. :glare:

JD1974

02-13-2009, 03:35 PM

OK just back rom the dentist so I'm not up to speed yet, but my daughter said something last night that made sense... Has anyone talked to the 4 yr old? He's not old enough for much information but he is old enough to know where they were all sleeping and if he knew the person that came in the room.

Yes it would be good to talk to the 4 year old...remember Blake? I think my son could explain a lot if something happened in my house, granted he will be 5 in a couple weeks but he is articulate.

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:36 PM

Well, let's take a look at that, shall we?

Let's see. Guy goes to work leaves 17 year old to watch 2 kids. Child goes missing during the time frame 17 year old is left to watch kids. I think the key word here is WATCH which obviously to me someone was not. Hmmmmmmm.. Yep, that's a qualified babysitter alright!

I think it is going to depend on the circumstances, once known. Jessica was taken right from her home, so was Elizabeth Smart, and Polly Klaas...but I don't think it makes their families less qualified to be parents.

I am leaning towards the possiblity that the GF left the house after the kids fell asleep, left the back door unlocked, and maybe even proped the storm door...IIRC the father said something about it being hard to open, and maybe she would prop it so she would not have to struggle with it---returned home at the right time to beat the father home, and discovered the little girl was gone...that is why I think she is having a hard time keeping her story straight.

JD1974

02-13-2009, 03:37 PM

Hmm not sure. I live in a neighborhood, we have blocks. It didn't look like blocks there, but maybe. are there arial shots of the home and the wooded area behind it?

ETA.. blocks are blocks whether you drive them or walk them, the distance is the same. not sure if that's what you were asking or not though.

No I was more meaning as in you could walk directly toward the water and it would be shorter if you didn't use the streets. Not nec driving, but cutting through the woods and the water is much closer.

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:38 PM

I was interested in that too. She described having to wash her blanket because Haleigh had "peed" on it - I assumed wetting the bed in the night. It did catch my eye, though, that when cops arrived to the home, Haleigh's usual blanket was in the wash cycle. Hmm.

When the cops arrived at nearly 4 am, the washing machine was working in wash cycle? Or it had stopped in that cycle? That would be remarkable to think about washing clothes at that hour.

march27

02-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:38 PM

But January, what if she was in fact sleeping? How would that make her "unqualified"?. Just a simple question, no hidden agenda.

Sleeping? At night? The horror of it all!

jewel6

02-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Jewel, did you see the interview with the bio mother's boyfriend?

no! when was it?

Rick777

02-13-2009, 03:40 PM

When the cops arrived at nearly 4 am, the washing machine was working in wash cycle? Or it had stopped in that cycle? That would be remarkable to think about washing clothes at that hour.

I missed that. Thats really interesting!

Armchairdet

02-13-2009, 03:41 PM

:biggrin:

I would also like to know more about the blanket she washed she kept talking about..

I wonder about that too. Does anyone know if bed wetting and sleep walking have a connection? That is to say if a child suffers from one are they more likely to have the other? Perhaps not waking enough to go to the bathroom has a connection with the stage of sleep that one would be prone to sleepwalk?

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:41 PM

OH understood but that link took me no where but to a membership page.

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISSING/publicr/Haleigh%20Ann-Marie%20Cummings%20case%20673.htm

scroll down and see what this brian has wrote about Haleigh.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 03:42 PM

newsjunkie

02-13-2009, 03:43 PM

Is George A searching today?

~jomomma~

02-13-2009, 03:43 PM

Jewel, did you see the interview with the bio mother's boyfriend?

not jewel, but i did

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:43 PM

lune3

02-13-2009, 03:44 PM

I think it is going to depend on the circumstances, once known. Jessica was taken right from her home, so was Elizabeth Smart, and Polly Klaas...but I don't think it makes their families less qualified to be parents.

I am leaning towards the possiblity that the GF left the house after the kids fell asleep, left the back door unlocked, and maybe even proped the storm door...IIRC the father said something about it being hard to open, and maybe she would prop it so she would not have to struggle with it---returned home at the right time to beat the father home, and discovered the little girl was gone...that is why I think she is having a hard time keeping her story straight.

I considered this too. But why not leave by the front door?
Why go out the back, look for a heavy cinderblock to prop the open the door with when anything from inside the house could have worked.
They hardly ever used the back door, why would she go out that way?

VC2

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

I was thinking that they might have been in the woods helping. There is lots of palmettos and they have big thorn things on them that cut. jmo

shhh you shouldnt make sensible statements that cut away guilt from "shady charachters" - bc they curse and don't live like us - with common sense
imo

emdragon

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

She was UNqualified no matter how this turns out! The majority of "normal" people agree on that. I dont get the "game" here about pretending it was OK to leave a 17 year old as a full time caretaker of someone elses children.

Have you found that link that says she was the full time caretaker? I've been out this morning and wanted to make sure I hadn't missed it.

Otherwise as you have asked others I would ask you stop stating as fact.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

jewel6

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

not jewel, but i did

was it interesting? because my hinky meter is a little bit raised on those two. jmo

march27

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

I think that Nancy Grace said this last night, that since she had the twins she can hear them cough from down the hall in a full sleep. I am the same way with mine and always have been. Guess it depends. I have not ruled out the pedophile kidnapping, March. I am just saying that something not right, as Dr. Lee would say.

i agree something is not right ... how can anything be right when a five year old is missing. She should be safe at home looking forward to passing out Valentines Day cards at school, not missing. Missing is never right

VC2

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

ITA, we as a whole are quick to judge people that aren't up to our standards, though it's wrong we still do it.

i dont and i dont think you do and anyone who does better be asking god for forgiveness in their prayers imo.

just my take

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:45 PM

I'm pretty sure she said she had washed the blanket the day before and only covered Hayleigh with a sheet that night.

Well that makes more sense. I missed some of the first couple days of interviews.
Anyway they could tell if there was blood on it, and probably if there was urine on it anyway, no?

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:46 PM

Which now raises a new question. Could the child have wet the bed and the babysitter/teenage girl friend lost her temper and hit her?

I think you're making up things out of whole cloth here, January. And you know I love you dearly.

But hey we could raise this question too: did aliens drop down and abduct her?

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:47 PM

She was UNqualified no matter how this turns out! The majority of "normal" people agree on that. I dont get the "game" here about pretending it was OK to leave a 17 year old as a full time caretaker of someone elses children.

She is 17...so what? How close is she to 18? Would it make a difference if she just turned 18 the month before, the week before, the day before?

Many people hire babysiters that age when they work; My daughter babysat at that age, sometimes for people that worked 3rd shift, and had to 'sleep over'...

I think the wrench in the works is that she is the GF...and that is what bothers people; not that I understand a 24 year old man with a 17 year old, it would never happen with my daughter, but she is old enough to babysit, she was not the 'only caregiver' the father lived there, and from what we have heard, he would take his daughter to and from the bus or school....so he was involved in her life, he was active, and he did not dump his children on a 17 year old girl, no more than thousands of other working parents do when they have a 17 year old to babysit.

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:47 PM

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISSING/publicr/Haleigh%20Ann-Marie%20Cummings%20case%20673.htm

scroll down and see what this brian has wrote about Haleigh.

TY this one works. :)

jewel6

02-13-2009, 03:47 PM

shhh you shouldnt make sensible statements that cut away guilt from "shady charachters" - bc they curse and don't live like us - with common sense
imo

:thumbsup: That was my first thought though. being from florida those bushes hurt and thats what i saw in the woods around their house. They also call them snake bushes. becuse rattle snakes like them. jmo :scared:

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:48 PM

But you are assuming she was asleep, you are assuming she was even at the house when the child went missing, you are assuming a 45 year old would not be MORE inclined to lock the doors before going to sleep, you are assuming that a 45 year old woman would not call 911 immediately. ON & ON...

:confused: I'm only assuming what we know has been said (unless I missed something). The girl said she got UP (therefore I assume she was sleeping) to go to the bathroom. She said she was at the house. Wasn't 911 called immediately?

I don't get your point, I really don't. Some people are really jumping on this girl. Far as I see, it's only because she's 17 and smokes and has an adult boyfriend with two kids. Sheesh.

cuddlyrunner

02-13-2009, 03:49 PM

I do my washing in the middle of the night on a timer -the price per unit is about 1/3 of the daily rate. I don't know if that's the same over there.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:49 PM

No I was more meaning as in you could walk directly toward the water and it would be shorter if you didn't use the streets. Not nec driving, but cutting through the woods and the water is much closer.

Gotcha. I have no idea. I'd like to see any ariel shots they have of that area.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:50 PM

no! when was it?

I'm not sure jewel, sorry. I only saw the end of it and I think i saw it on tv. it may be in the links thread though.

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:50 PM

I considered this too. But why not leave by the front door?
Why go out the back, look for a heavy cinderblock to prop the open the door with when anything from inside the house could have worked.
They hardly ever used the back door, why would she go out that way?

Maybe because she thought it was safer to leave the back door unlocked? I live in the country, rural area...I lost my house key so I locked the front door...nearest to the street, and left my back door unlocked, because I was thinking that it was better than leaving the front door unlocked...not visable from the street.

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:51 PM

Besides the idea of someone entering with a key, the other thing I am wondering about right now is this

""I will not get into items of evidence. There's a series of different types whether it's fingerprints or DNA analysis. We will use the full force leads we can and I don't have a time line," Dominic Pape of FDLE said.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18709184/detail.html

Has anyone seen any report of "evidence" besides the possible report of a footprint? Someone posted that a few hours ago, something about a footprint.

You'd think nearly all of the people we've heard about so far would have an excuse to have fingerprints inside the house.

Unanswered questions....how long did they live there, and who is their landlord.
Is there any excuse to have biomom's fingerprints or her boyfriend's in the house? (not saying there is, or isn't, just a question)

emdragon

02-13-2009, 03:51 PM

Savannah, according to what we learned on NG last night, her first story is that she was in the bed with both of the kids. If that is the case, how does a person sneak into a bedroom and take a child from the same bed you are sleeping without waking you up? It would never happen on my watch. Next she said that she was in the bed alone with the girl while the boy was in his bedroom. Same scenario. Third story is that she was in the room by herself and the kids were both sleeping in the children's bedroom. Okay, this maybe.

Bathroom story. "I went to use the bathroom and when I came out I noticed she was not in the bed!"
Story two: "I went to use the bathroom but never made it to the bathroom because I noticed the back door wide open and the kitchen light on and went back to check on the kids and she was gone!"

Hmmmmm. Too many versions for me not to have a problem with this.

No on Greta they explained the little one and misty were in the same bed and Hayleigh was sleeping on a bed a few feet away in the same room.

Neffy

02-13-2009, 03:53 PM

http://www.briansprediction.com/MISSING/publicr/Haleigh%20Ann-Marie%20Cummings%20case%20673.htm

scroll down and see what this brian has wrote about Haleigh.

Well interesting to say the least. Tx again.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:53 PM

Do we know she was a full time caretaker? Was she the nanny?
She lived with the father and most likely played the role of a mother. Even mother`s have a right to go to bed and go to sleep after putting the children down for the night. MOO

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:53 PM

Savannah, according to what we learned on NG last night, her first story is that she was in the bed with both of the kids. If that is the case, how does a person sneak into a bedroom and take a child from the same bed you are sleeping without waking you up? It would never happen on my watch. Next she said that she was in the bed alone with the girl while the boy was in his bedroom. Same scenario. Third story is that she was in the room by herself and the kids were both sleeping in the children's bedroom. Okay, this maybe.

Bathroom story. "I went to use the bathroom and when I came out I noticed she was not in the bed!"
Story two: "I went to use the bathroom but never made it to the bathroom because I noticed the back door wide open and the kitchen light on and went back to check on the kids and she was gone!"

Hmmmmm. Too many versions for me not to have a problem with this.

Not me. So far anyway. VERY seldom do I agree with Nancy Grace, but IIRC, one of her guest AND she felt that the "conflicting" stories could be due to poor communication and reporting. In other words, like the game of telephone, you tell a person something, they tell it, then that person tells it and blah blah.....before you know it you have stories that don't match up.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:53 PM

She was UNqualified no matter how this turns out! The majority of "normal" people agree on that. I dont get the "game" here about pretending it was OK to leave a 17 year old as a full time caretaker of someone elses children.

I believe you are wrong on this one Bratlings and I'm quite normal. No dsyfunction in this household at all to be honest. You are the only one stating she was a full time caretaker, nobody else that I've seen to be honest. I see alot of other seemingly "normal" persons here that don't feel she was unqualified either. It's really a never ending discussion this one, because some people are comfortable having a sitter, some are not. some people realize that sitters usually start at around 13 and it's hard to find sitters after 17 or 18. 17 is capable of taking care of children IMO

VC2

02-13-2009, 03:54 PM

Yeah, but when you get mad, do you call your SO a ^%$#&^%9*%$??? That doesn't come just from anger, IMO. I also can't imagine being that quick to jump to the conclusion a pedophile had her. I mean that was a pretty quick assessment wasn't it? Of course there's the Couey case nearby that could have everyone on edge...

i have. Door was opened unconsciously and a kitten slipped out. 10 minutes later was dead on the road. I called my SO every name in the book and blamed squarely in that direction until i calmed down and then apologized.

Things like missing or possible dead loved ones has a funny habit of making ppl go nuts.

IMO
eta in jessicas case he said he was attacking his parents all the time, and youknow mark was not a clean language user all the time. That was in his piece on this case.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 03:54 PM

well interesting to say the least. Tx again.
urw.......

~jomomma~

02-13-2009, 03:55 PM

was it interesting? because my hinky meter is a little bit raised on those two. jmo

he wouldn't look into the camera :glare:

and claims the kids didn't want to go home to Dad that last day they had them. i'm looking for the video. i just watched it this morning.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:55 PM

No, and yet another case of why the police were not called immediately. The boyfriend said that she was trying to call him at work and only reached him when he was driving up the driveway from his shift. Then he said "why didn't you call 911 yet?" and we did not hear a reply. Red flag for you? It is for me.

No. Given her age and immaturity.

What was the time lapse?

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 03:55 PM

Was Mark Lunsford qualified?
Was Mrs Klaas qualified?
Were the Groene's qualified?
Was Mrs Walsh qualified?
Were the VanDams qualified?

pffft!

You forgot Mr and Mrs Ramsey. :wink:

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:55 PM

Do we know she was a full time caretaker? Was she the nanny?

No we don't know that, and we didn't know it last night either when it was repeatedly worn out, run over, and put to rest. By nearly everyone.

jewel6

02-13-2009, 03:55 PM

he wouldn't look into the camera :glare:

and claims the kids didn't want to go home to Dad that last day they had them. i'm looking for the video. i just watched it this morning.

Interesting!

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:56 PM

Exactly. And thus a child is missing now because of it. I am on the same page as you. Bucking everyone here that is saying she was qualified, the perfect babysitter and did nothing wrong and on top of that, feel she is telling the truth. No way!

Nobody said she was perfect January. Some of us that disagree about this qualification list, also feel she may be lieing. One way or another, the child is missing. IF she is involved, that changes things IMO obviously. But if this child was truely abducted and she had nothing to do with it, it does not make her unqualified. IMO

VC2

02-13-2009, 03:57 PM

Not speaking to any one poster in particular, but this case sure does remind me of the disappearance and murder of little Jessie. Days of lurid speculation about the family and none of us could believe it when she was found a few hundred yards away and had been there the whole time.

I dunno, I don't want to sound like the goody 2 shoes (!) here, but so far the lurid and unfair speculation of the press (inc NG's guests last night) are pretty sad.

So many people wanting to make some dough off a precious missing kid.

:crying:

or like spewing hate to be self righteous and feel certain nothing would happen in their house because they are so upstanding.

IMO

ortiga

02-13-2009, 03:57 PM

On Nancy last night they had the mother and the grandmother saying they were told 3 different versions of the bed story and two different versions of the bathroom story. It's a mystery to me.

And, for the rest of the story, on Nancy last night the mother and grandmother were asked where they heard any of those versions of the bed story and they said they couldn't remember.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 03:57 PM

not jewel, but i did

What did you think about him jomomma

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 03:57 PM

i have. Door was opened unconsciously and a kitten slipped out. 10 minutes later was dead on the road. I called my SO every name in the book and blamed squarely in that direction until i calmed down and then apologized.

Things like missing or possible dead loved ones has a funny habit of making ppl go nuts.

IMO
eta in jessicas case he said he was attacking his parents all the time, and youknow mark was not a clean language user all the time. That was in his piece on this case.

ITA. Fear and anger usually does bring the worst out in people.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:57 PM

On Nancy last night they had the mother and the grandmother saying they were told 3 different versions of the bed story and two different versions of the bathroom story. It's a mystery to me.

The ones that really DO seem suspicious to me are those two! Not suspicious in that I think they had anything to do with Haleigh's being missing, but suspicious in that they seem to enjoy casting suspicion on the father and his g/f. Which I suppose is understandable...the bio mom feels custody was taken from her unfairly. However, IMO, she didn't really appear to be real interested in having custody herself.....

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 03:58 PM

And, for the rest of the story, on Nancy last night the mother and grandmother were asked where they heard any of those versions of the bed story and they said they couldn't remember.

Yep!!!!!!!!!!!! That too!!!!!!

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 03:58 PM

Nobody said she was perfect January. Some of us that disagree about this qualification list, also feel she may be lieing. One way or another, the child is missing. IF she is involved, that changes things IMO obviously. But if this child was truely abducted and she had nothing to do with it, it does not make her unqualified. IMO

I haven't decided for myself if the gf is hiding something until I hear more from LE. You know obviously the dad & bio mother thought she was "qualified".jmo

Tracian

02-13-2009, 03:59 PM

18 or 19 might not not have even been mature enough for this girl. She was not a part time babysitter, she was a live in caretaker! She was responsible for these children more hours of the week than daddy was. She could not legally consent to her own medical treatment much less the children's in an emergency, and further she was not old enough to buy cigarettes, vote, etc. That is a minor and not someone who should be in charge of children that is not their own on a full time basis.

Teenagers babysit all the time. I don't understand your point, because if a 15 year old is watching my child, and my child stops breathing or breaks a leg...911 can be called, and they will be treated even if they cannot find me for whatever reason.

Babysitters are often around the children as much or more than the parents...

The outrage is not about her being a care provider, it seems to be her age, the age of the father, and the fact that she lived with him and was the 'step mother' so to speak.

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 03:59 PM

The ones that really DO seem suspicious to me are those two! Not suspicious in that I think they had anything to do with Haleigh's being missing, but suspicious in that they seem to enjoy casting suspicion on the father and his g/f. Which I suppose is understandable...the bio mom feels custody was taken from her unfairly. However, IMO, she didn't really appear to be real interested in having custody herself.....

I have a feeling we agree about a lot in this case. :sneaky:

Tracian

02-13-2009, 04:01 PM

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 04:01 PM

I haven't decided for myself if the gf is hiding something until I hear more from LE. You know obviously the dad & bio mother thought she was "qualified".jmo

Well then I guess we'll be having some say they were unqualified to know who was qualified. :sneaky:

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 04:01 PM

What maturity? The maturity that enabled her to call the police immediately? The maturity that guessed the childs weight as 40-50-60 pounds? Or was it the maturity that guessed the child was 3 or 4 feet tall?

I wouldn't think maturity has anything to do with her guessing the wrong weight or height.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:02 PM

On Nancy last night they had the mother and the grandmother saying they were told 3 different versions of the bed story and two different versions of the bathroom story. It's a mystery to me.But..... if you recall neither the bio-mother or grandmother could remember who had told them.Imagine the rumors that were flying those first hours and days.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:02 PM

I have a feeling we agree about a lot in this case. :sneaky:

Seems that way!

One time on the Caylee board I made a long and heartfelt post about this fact....oftentimes you can be in 100% disagreement with a person on one case, then go to another case and you totally agree. AND vice versa. Ah, the amazing world of message boards. I can tell you of posters I fought to the death with (NOT LITERALLY!) years ago on one high profile case or another, then in 2008 we were totally and completely on the same "side" on other cases......

It's so funny! :wub:

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:03 PM

omsk99

02-13-2009, 04:03 PM

omsky.....I always agree with you on these things, but this time I don't know. Parents seem to be behind these cases more often then not, and I don't understand the door being open when it was always locked. (Ron personally would do this.) How brazen would it be for a SO to go in and take the child that was so close to the adult? Not that it hasn't happened, but it's the exception to the rule.

Some here suggested that the GF might have left the door open while bing in the backyard with someone, or by herself and forgot to lock it and is afraid to admit it. Otherwise, I can't think of how the door got unlocked without a forced entry, you got me here :shrug:

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:04 PM

he wouldn't look into the camera :glare:

and claims the kids didn't want to go home to Dad that last day they had them. i'm looking for the video. i just watched it this morning.

I think he was lieing myself.. as I disagree with the mother and grandmother on there..not shedding a tear yet bashing the father. Then we have the fathers mother who was unconsolable, cryin and begging and pleading for whoever has Haleigh to bring her home. Quite a difference there.

VC2

02-13-2009, 04:04 PM

Marks advice was excellent. Incredible that he put up with all the crap without becoming a hating person.

he is a better person than i am. I would have joined every board and blog spewing filth about me and told them exactly what i thought of them when the couey was caught. I would have taken to the tv and radios and read some scripture to those who are so god fearing and upstanding but called me a murderer and a pedophile bc i went to my g/f thinking jessie was safe and i had longer hair and was a biker. Then my prayers would be asking god to send them to hell, and that if god forbid any other children had to be go through the hell jessie did that it was a child of a fine upstanding family who attacked him baselessly so they could understand it.

That mark didn't do that is remarkable and shows what a great man he is. And how far i have to get there :D but its something i couldn't forgive, don't forgive and it is making me sick seeing the same thing in this case. Not suspicion just bc they were parents but that they are shady, and omg he cursed, and anger issues bc he swore at 911 and his g/f

imo
eta i am not thinking of any one poster or even posters on this board, just in general.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:05 PM

I watched that interview a couple times, and I was impressed by the mother. Here, her daughter is missing, and the girl who last saw her isn't telling a straight story twice in a row. I think the mother was trying hard to tell the details correctly - admitting twice that she couldn't remember where she'd heard something - but if my child were missing and the caretaker was not telling the truth, I'd be shouting it during an interview.

I don't think Misty directly had anything to do with Haleigh's disappearance, but there is some reason - I don't know what - that's making her lie about the details sometimes.

I wasn't too impressed with the mother. She had a kind of spaced out look to me, and she didn't at all seem as upset about her daughter being missing than the father did.

jammies

02-13-2009, 04:06 PM

Some here suggested that the GF might have left the door open while bing in the backyard with someone, or by herself and forgot to lock it and is afraid to admit it. Otherwise, I can't think of how the door got unlocked without a forced entry, you got me here :shrug:

There are only two answers. Someone inside the house unlocked the door or someone had a key.

ortiga

02-13-2009, 04:07 PM

omsk99

02-13-2009, 04:07 PM

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:08 PM

Please list what she did wrong? Many children have been kidnapped from their homes with their parents sleeping nearby.

As it stands, she did nothing wrong....if anything was done wrong here..it was (in my opinion) leaving 2 small children with a 17 year old....That is not to say that she is to blame for the abduction of Haleigh....it means the father should not have been using her as a full time mother at her age...

If what Misty says is the truth then I would assume she is a very sound sleeper....and that the kidnapper was very brazen....both are very possible....could be that the kidnapper thought the children were alone...but leaving on the kitchen light? sounds like something a very young kidnapper would do....prop a cynder block to keep the screen door from closing (obviously the screen door has a spring on it and it would bang close).....

It all leads to it being someone who was in that house before, knew someone in that house....and gf needs to be questioned about her associates more thoroughly....the reason I say gf, is because Ron worked late hours and I doubt that he would be allowing his young wife to have friends over while he was at work.....although it is possible but it is unlikely....

On NG last night it was said that Misty used Heleigh in past tense...by saying "I loved her like she was my own".....I don't put too much into that, I really don't think that gf is smart enough to distinguish the difference between present and past tense.....but thats JMO...

Also in my own opinion...I do believe that this young lady was too young to be given such a responsibility....and although I do not think she directly harmed Heleigh, she may very well have indirectly did so....

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:08 PM

So you are saying, that if your ex husband got full custody of your children then left them in the care of a 17 year old 60+ hours a week you would be OK with that? (I find it a shame people cant be honest on these boards! Either that or there are a lot of messed up parents here!)

This has nothing to do with me. I do not have an ex husband. You don't know those children were in her care for 60 hours. you don't know that. most people who do 12 hour shifts, don't do 7 days a week. We dont' know what his schedule was do we? We dont' know that the boy wasn't in day care. We dont' know if the gram that lived around the corner took care of them, we dont' know if this girl is in school. I find it a shame that you are passing so much judgment on posters here. I normally always agree with you, so it isn't personal, you know that :smile: BUT I didn't lose my kids in a custody battle either. I think very little of the bio mother and her mother in this case..at this point. Furthur more, you'll find that I am always honest on these boards as well, so I won't take that personally either. these people lead a different lifestyle than I do.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:09 PM

I wasn't too impressed with the mother. She had a kind of spaced out look to me, and she didn't at all seem as upset about her daughter being missing than the father did.

And don't forget that at least up until last night she had not taken a Poly.

omsk99

02-13-2009, 04:10 PM

There are only two answers. Someone inside the house unlocked the door or someone had a key.

I agree, but that is provided Haleigh was taken through the back door, which was ajar/open when the father got home. IF (and I'd like to emphasize IF) the GF is hiding something, maybe she opened the back door herself afterwards (before Ronald got home) if something else happened and she was afraid to take responsibility or get blamed for Haleigh going missing, "staged" it, I guess.

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 04:10 PM

LOL really? First thing they ask you at the emergency room of a an injured child is... "how much does he/she weigh?" That is important if they need to give the child medication and can not weigh the child because of an injury. She claims she loved these children like, "her own" and they loved her as their mom. But she didnt have the first clue about what responsibilities that carried? NO, not mature enough!

Tad bit different when the child is with you as opposed to a possible abduction and a frantic call to 911 plus the dad was yelling in the background? I don't know, it would have me scatter brained.

Maybe she is not very smart? Who knows yet?:shrug:

If we want to blame someone...the dad did leave his kids with her.

Remy

02-13-2009, 04:12 PM

Seems that way!

One time on the Caylee board I made a long and heartfelt post about this fact....oftentimes you can be in 100% disagreement with a person on one case, then go to another case and you totally agree. AND vice versa. Ah, the amazing world of message boards. I can tell you of posters I fought to the death with (NOT LITERALLY!) years ago on one high profile case or another, then in 2008 we were totally and completely on the same "side" on other cases......

It's so funny! :wub:

Count me in as well as sharing your thoughts on this case. :ohmy:

Unperson1984

02-13-2009, 04:12 PM

I haven't followed this case closely, so forgive me if these questions have been asked. Have they used tracking dogs yet? Are there alligators in the nearby river?

WillowInFlight

02-13-2009, 04:12 PM

Should teen mothers have their children taken away until they reach the age of 18?

Crazy huh? 18 doesn't automatically make one mature. Legal maybe but not mature.

NikkiG77058

02-13-2009, 04:13 PM

Didn't she say she woke up to go to the bathroom and found her missing, though? So she was asleep.....how do you "watch" someone when you are sleeping? Even a 45 year old babysitter wouldn't see what was happening to the kid if she were asleep.

ITA, SS!! I don't understand why being asleep at NIGHT would make her 'unqualified' to watch the kids. Maybe that's not what she is saying but that is definitely the way I perceived it. :sad:

omsk99

02-13-2009, 04:13 PM

And don't forget that at least up until last night she had not taken a Poly.

But don't forget we don't know why :huh:

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:13 PM

And I would take the liberty of putting the emphasis on the word LOVED past tense. As one of the other poster 10 year old daughter pointed out today on this thread, you don't talk about someone in the past tense unless you know they are not coming back.

IMO, that is totally and completely a falsehood.

desmom

02-13-2009, 04:14 PM

LOL really? First thing they ask you at the emergency room of a an injured child is... "how much does he/she weigh?" That is important if they need to give the child medication and can not weigh the child because of an injury. She claims she loved these children like, "her own" and they loved her as their mom. But she didnt have the first clue about what responsibilities that carried? NO, not mature enough!

Your ER medicates children on what the parent states their child weighs? :scared:

Our youngest has some major medical issues. I cannot count the number of times I had to call for an ambulance for her before she was 5 years old. Very scary and the darn 911 operators had a ton of questions. All I wanted was an ambulance!!! My mind was racing 100 mph and I blurted out anything that came to mind just to answer their questions. Could be Misty was having the same problem.

jmo

lune3

02-13-2009, 04:14 PM

It could have been unlocked from the inside, by a perp who has a key to the front door. Or, maybe the front door was actually unlocked.

I'm interested in the bolt. Is it a key bolt, where you could possibly unlock it if you have a key, or is it a manual bolt that you HAVE to be on the inside to unlock?

I considered this...that the perp entered through the front and left through the back. The only thing is that the cinderblock did not come from inside the house. Why not use something from inside the home? I doubt the guy would have come inside, then go out the back to get a cinderblock, then go back inside to snatch the child.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:15 PM

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:15 PM

Oh, really???? And when does that happen for us, Savannah.

:wub:

Ask me four years from now. We haven't been posting together long enough. :wub:

VC2

02-13-2009, 04:15 PM

Hi Sammy welcome :smile:

WOW haven't noticed the girlfriends bandage.

Wonder why they are both wounded:scared:wasnt a bandage, someone looked closer its how she was holding her sleeve.

imo

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:15 PM

Count me in as well as sharing your thoughts on this case. :ohmy:

LOL I disagreed with SS on the Caylee thread many times..I agree with her here though.

I'm hoping we'll know soon enough, what has happened to this little girl.

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 04:16 PM

Just getting back from lunch and thought I'd check in and make sure y'all are behaving. :w00t:

I don't see any news on Haleigh yet, hoping against hope to see her found safe.

:sad:

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 04:17 PM

Your ER medicates children on what the parent states their child weighs? :scared:

Our youngest has some major medical issues. I cannot count the number of times I had to call for an ambulance for her before she was 5 years old. Very scary and the darn 911 operators had a ton of questions. All I wanted was an ambulance!!! My mind was racing 100 mph and I blurted out anything that came to mind just to answer their questions. Could be Misty was having the same problem.

jmo

Thank you DES!

~jomomma~

02-13-2009, 04:17 PM

I haven't followed this case closely, so forgive me if these questions have been asked. Have they used tracking dogs yet? Are there alligators in the nearby river?

i think i was googling their street last night and one of the first things that came up was a picture of an alligator....on that river (forget the name of river now)

so yes.......there are gators

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:17 PM

Not when it is a well known fact and you are only pretending to not have knowledge of it.

Links are to be provided when you state something as fact otherwise make sure it is clear it YOUR opinion.

Her being the GF and his work hours do not prove she alone cared for those kids 60 hours a day- so provide the link or stop saying it.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:18 PM

Yes, it does matter what it has to do with you and what you think is "OK". You are advocating that this was an appropriate situation! What are you basing that on then? I dont know mych about bio mom like most here but according to her she had custody of the children and allowed them to go on a visit with dad. He refused to return them during that time and filed for emergency temp. custody and the court sent notice to the wrong address. Unheard of? Anyone remember the POLK case and the custody games?

Again, it doesn't have anything to do with me. Their lifestyle is different. I see nothing wrong with a 17 yr old watching these children. You do, I don't understand why.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:20 PM

Teenagers babysit all the time. I don't understand your point, because if a 15 year old is watching my child, and my child stops breathing or breaks a leg...911 can be called, and they will be treated even if they cannot find me for whatever reason.

Babysitters are often around the children as much or more than the parents...

The outrage is not about her being a care provider, it seems to be her age, the age of the father, and the fact that she lived with him and was the 'step mother' so to speak.
I am not trying to be goody 2 shoes, but, you have to understand the population of Putnam,Bradford,Union and Baker county is made up of poor and uneducated people. This does NOT make them less human then any of us. Very close nit communities where everyone knows everyone. Like one poster said, these families go back several generations. Education is put on the back burner. Many drop out of school at 16 never to complete their education.
Teenage mothers IS the NORM in these area`s. Sorry, but facts are facts.

Casecase

02-13-2009, 04:22 PM

I considered this...that the perp entered through the front and left through the back. The only thing is that the cinderblock did not come from inside the house. Why not use something from inside the home? I doubt the guy would have come inside, then go out the back to get a cinderblock, then go back inside to snatch the child.

Unless he propped the back door open with the cinder block before he came in? I agree, I can't see someone coming in, going back out to get a cinder block, then going back in again to snatch the child. But I could see someone grabbing a cinder block from outside and using it to prop the door open on his way in so he could get back out quickly and quietly, without worrying about the door slamming behind him.

IMO

IM4Truth

02-13-2009, 04:22 PM

Again, it doesn't have anything to do with me. Their lifestyle is different. I see nothing wrong with a 17 yr old watching these children. You do, I don't understand why.

I wonder what age people seem to think one has to be before they can babysit children? These children are not infants. I agree that there is nothing wrong with a responsible 17 year old babysitting, even overnight.

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:22 PM

LOL I disagreed with SS on the Caylee thread many times..I agree with her here though.

I'm hoping we'll know soon enough, what has happened to this little girl.

What? You mean you don't want to post here for the next 8 months? :w00t: (Personally I like it A LOT better than the other place.......a nice, fresh NEW case to talk about!)

(Seriously though...I do pray for this child, hope she is found soon!)

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 04:23 PM

Thats where I am too. Once that gets cleared up, my mind can think elsewhere.

Rick, what I think of is when the father said they were renting. Usually when you take posession of the property, they give you keys but if you don't have the locks changed, the previous tenant and the owner would have keys.

I hate thinking that way too, but a previous tenant would have knowledge of the layout of the house, the quirks of the door (the brick) and maybe that's what happened.

Therefore, there would have been no actual forced entry but still an unlawful one.

:unsure:

~jomomma~

02-13-2009, 04:23 PM

happy2bme

02-13-2009, 04:23 PM

desmom

02-13-2009, 04:24 PM

There are only two answers. Someone inside the house unlocked the door or someone had a key.

From NG's show: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/11/ng.01.html

911 Operator: OK, was your back door locked do you know?

Unidentified Female: Yes. The back door always stays locked.

later in the show:

Ronald Cummings: I've used it twice to pull the vacuum cleaner down the handicap ramp and vacuum my car with it. And, yes, I did relock the door when I came in. And I checked to be sure that it is still locked every afternoon before I go to work.

What day did Ron clean his car?

If the door is always locked, why does he check it every afternoon before he goes to work?

jmo

WhiteShark

02-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Morning Desmom - I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt also. We all know that children are abducted in the middle of the night. On paper it seems impossible, but it does happen........snipped for space........

count me in as a fence sitter as well.My gut just doesn't lead me to either the Dad or the GF......(mind you, I have just gotten to page one, so if something has transpired in the next 14 pages, we will see.I reserve all rights.):wink:

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:25 PM

i think i was googling their street last night and one of the first things that came up was a picture of an alligator....on that river (forget the name of river now)

so yes.......there are gatorsST. Johns river and it is also full of moccasins.

jammies

02-13-2009, 04:26 PM

From NG's show: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0902/11/ng.01.html

911 Operator: OK, was your back door locked do you know?

Unidentified Female: Yes. The back door always stays locked.

later in the show:

Ronald Cummings: I've used it twice to pull the vacuum cleaner down the handicap ramp and vacuum my car with it. And, yes, I did relock the door when I came in. And I checked to be sure that it is still locked every afternoon before I go to work.

What day did Ron clean his car?

If the door is always locked, why does he check it every afternoon before he goes to work?

jmo

The whole "back door" convo is strange,imo. They never talk about the front door. Wouldn't locking the front be just as important as the back??

ortiga

02-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Ortiga - this thread is moving so fast I can't find your original question about the washing machine, but I don't think the wash cycle was going when the cops arrived. I think the blanket was either sitting in the drier, or freshly washed and sitting somewhere else squeaky clean.

She was doing the wash after putting the kids to bed and going to bed herself, so 8 - 10 p.m. She was laundering the blanket. She used a fresh blanket for Haleigh.

My guess is, the clean blanket was dry in the drier when the cops arrived.

TY. Someone said here that the blanket was in the wash cycle. Thus my question if that was true. But others have said that it had been washed, but so far no one has linked to it having been in the middle of the wash cycle. I put clothes in the washing machine lots of times before going to bed. So they would be spun out be the time I wake up. Anyway, any possible blood on the blanket would not completely wash out, IMO .

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Seems that way!

One time on the Caylee board I made a long and heartfelt post about this fact....oftentimes you can be in 100% disagreement with a person on one case, then go to another case and you totally agree. AND vice versa. Ah, the amazing world of message boards. I can tell you of posters I fought to the death with (NOT LITERALLY!) years ago on one high profile case or another, then in 2008 we were totally and completely on the same "side" on other cases......

It's so funny! :wub:

That's the very reason why I don't like downing any posters for not agreeing with me....(not that I do would do that in any case)....but we might very well agree on other topics...

And even if we didn't that still is no reason for dislikeing a person for not agreeing with you.....JMOO

Pag Boi

02-13-2009, 04:28 PM

The problem is this, IMO.

We don't know their birthdays, for one.

For example:

9 months out of the year, my hubby is 5 years older than me, for three months he is only 4 years older than me.

Another thing:

We don't know if the GF is emancipated; or if the term 'certain' means without parental consent.

In my state, you can drop out of high school at 16. You don't need parental consent.

I am curious if Misty dropped out of high school b/f she hooked up w/Ronald. If so, she might have viewed moving in with him a better alternative than flipping burgers. Her parents might have just been relieved.

It's hard to say. My parents wouldn't let me drop out of high school or hook up w/a 25yo. My kids won't be either. However, until LE makes charges against Ronald for living with the "minor," I will withhold judgment.

The smoking issue just seems so silly to me. What is the penalty for a minor smoking? How often does LE enforce it? I think finding Haleigh is much more important but that's JMOO

Mandysmom

02-13-2009, 04:28 PM

I believe the LE said 2 pedophiles lived across the river. Possibly they use the river as a means of transportation by boat, some places in florida and other states have public docks close by shopping, etc.
Just a thought. JMO

Our house is lakefront property and hubby always calls it the "river". If they lived across, it depends on the width too how far they would have to travel.

I know that our pier faces many homes on the other side and it wouldn't take much to cross over and dock up, grab something and leave undetected.

We've had gas stolen and there was a ring of thieves stealing personal watercrafts for a while.

Unless the residents have good lighting, it's also dark and I can see someone getting away pretty easily.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:29 PM

I considered this...that the perp entered through the front and left through the back. The only thing is that the cinderblock did not come from inside the house. Why not use something from inside the home? I doubt the guy would have come inside, then go out the back to get a cinderblock, then go back inside to snatch the child.

My thoughts on that theory are similiar. Only I think if it was someone watchin the house, they may have set it up earlier. Had that screen door propped open and then couldn't get into the house that way, maybe got in another way and left out the back.

IlliniFan

02-13-2009, 04:30 PM

It could have been unlocked from the inside, by a perp who has a key to the front door. Or, maybe the front door was actually unlocked.

I'm interested in the bolt. Is it a key bolt, where you could possibly unlock it if you have a key, or is it a manual bolt that you HAVE to be on the inside to unlock?

On Greta, I believe the father and gf both said that someone had to pick the lock. (both very firm that it was locked) It was my understanding they were referring to the deadbolt. I can only assume it has a lock outside of the door, like the actual door lock???

I know the other kind of deadbolts that you are talking about. That you lock and unlock only from the inside....

lune3

02-13-2009, 04:31 PM

Unless he propped the back door open with the cinder block before he came in? I agree, I can't see someone coming in, going back out to get a cinder block, then going back in again to snatch the child. But I could see someone grabbing a cinder block from outside and using it to prop the door open on his way in so he could get back out quickly and quietly, without worrying about the door slamming behind him.

IMO

Yes, that's possible. The perp either had a key or means of opening the front door, or it was unlocked and he knew that, and first got the cinderblock. In fact, it's even possible that he might have placed that cinderblock nearby the back door BEFORE that night if he had been stalking the house and pre-planning.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:32 PM

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:32 PM

That's the very reason why I don't like downing any posters for not agreeing with me....(not that I do would do that in any case)....but we might very well agree on other topics...

And even if we didn't that still is no reason for dislikeing a person for not agreeing with you.....JMOO

Yes! For you: :wub:

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:32 PM

Oh the comments on Mark were horrible and they didn't stop after the polygraph- the grandfathers old criminal record came out and he was trashed, the Grandmothers poly was inconclusive so then she must have done it.
It was ugly and evil and I am glad Mark never had to hear or see half of it.

There is nothing wrong with questioning the truth in what anyone says it is just a shame that so many assign guilt based on their morals and nothing else.
Tragedies happen to families that may not live up to the standards of others but that doesn't mean they are less of a victim.

You are so right, I remember now...they brought up something that his father had done 50 years ago...and they said his mother failed the polygraph....But wasn't that more LE then the public comments? I don't remember too much about that part of it...I just remember crying along with him....it broke my heart to see all the hurt that man was going thru....

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 04:33 PM

I do not need to, it is well known that dad worked 12 hour shifts and she cared for the children then & when he got home and slept. Find your own links.

Not to drag this out, do you know if the father worked 12 hr shift 5 days a week? Some companies woprk 4 day work weeks. Then say children get home 2:30 pm, Dad goes to work at 3 so babysitter needed until approx. till 8 pm. bedtime; 5 hrs, 25 hrs per week? Not so bad except she would have homework detail and supper. The report I read with his previous drug, firearm and MV problems had quite a lot of fines attached and most paid. So I guess he sure needed to work long hours to maintain a good quality of life for these children.
The real Mom, she seemed to be holding back her answers , JMO.

desmom

02-13-2009, 04:33 PM

Whatever age they are when they can legally consent to medical treatment and are mature enough to call 911 in an obvious emergency. That would be the right age in my opinion.

I do not believe Misty would be able to consent for medical treatment for either of the children no matter what her age. I believe only a parent can give consent for medical treatment. If it is a life or death situation, the hospital can treat because consent is implied.

jmo

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 04:34 PM

Find offensive post. Report offensive post. You have a nice day too. :thumbsup:

January does not write offensive posts. Sharing an opinion is productive. It provides us with more to think about. I applaud any and all opinions. :thumbsup:

SavannahStar

02-13-2009, 04:34 PM

I just got told by some poster or another here that the bedwetting theory that someone else put out and I am in the process of entertaining, was too far fetched as aliens beaming her out. Does no one else beside me remember the whole bedwetting problem that little JonBenet had and the cops that suspected that may have led to her death?

Excellent post and good theory IMHO. Bedwetting rage is not ruled out. At least not by me.

Please don't take that personally (the aliens comment).

You know it's not so much that some of your theories are far-fetched (for me), but I think some of them have no basis in fact.....I can see speculation, but not speculation without anything to back it up.

We can still be friends.

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 04:35 PM

desmom

02-13-2009, 04:37 PM

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:37 PM

You're correct. Moreover, who wants a 17-year old giving permission for anything except for "extra fries"?

:smile: you are so right.....

Tracian

02-13-2009, 04:39 PM

I do not believe Misty would be able to consent for medical treatment for either of the children no matter what her age. I believe only a parent can give consent for medical treatment. If it is a life or death situation, the hospital can treat because consent is implied.

jmo

Actually, at least in my state, if the person has a written POA, which can be as simple as a note, they can consent to medical treatment. When I worked in the ER, we had a babysitter, bring in a 10 year old boy that broke his leg. His parents could not be reached, but his leg was set anyway.

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:41 PM

My thoughts on that theory are similiar. Only I think if it was someone watchin the house, they may have set it up earlier. Had that screen door propped open and then couldn't get into the house that way, maybe got in another way and left out the back. I have thought the same. I also wonder if it could be a peeping Tom turned kidnapper.

lune3

02-13-2009, 04:41 PM

he also could have been using the cinderblock to stand up and look into windows, if he was watchin the house previously.

I'm inclined to believe this guy was indeed watching the house. Maybe he did look in the widows, (or try to open them) and figure out the layout of the place. Who's to say he didn't try getting in there before and failed? Maybe this guy tried both doors before that night, maybe this time the front door was unlocked if perhaps Misty did go outside to have a smoke and forgot to lock it.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:42 PM

You are so right, I remember now...they brought up something that his father had done 50 years ago...and they said his mother failed the polygraph....But wasn't that more LE then the public comments? I don't remember too much about that part of it...I just remember crying along with him....it broke my heart to see all the hurt that man was going thru....

I cried with him too...

I'm speaking more about internet posters here and on other boards... And some TH as well.

The same thing happened with the Groene's as well- posters insisting it happened because of drugs or drug debts- then it was the father (long hair and rode a bike) or the brother who had done it.

Speculations are a mainstay in any case but when those idea's become damaging to the victims and not based on facts, then we need to step back I believe.

IM4Truth

02-13-2009, 04:42 PM

I am not trying to be goody 2 shoes, but, you have to understand the population of Putnam,Bradford,Union and Baker county is made up of poor and uneducated people. This does NOT make them less human then any of us. Very close nit communities where everyone knows everyone. Like one poster said, these families go back several generations. Education is put on the back burner. Many drop out of school at 16 never to complete their education.
Teenage mothers IS the NORM in these area`s. Sorry, but facts are facts.

You have pointed out some very good things in your post. I don't know that area but I do know of areas similar to what you have described. The little boy from Immokalee, Adji hasn't been found yet that I know of. That is a very poor, uneducated area, though families do survive. I'm beginning to think that some posters do not understand the below poverty levels. It appears to me that the father is innocent, but I'm still holding out on Misty. When I first heard it, I thought "she is connected to the disappearance". I could be wrong. Looks like a lot of bickering going on here this after. All the while an innocent little child is missing. I don't get it.

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 04:42 PM

Our house is lakefront property and hubby always calls it the "river". If they lived across, it depends on the width too how far they would have to travel.

I know that our pier faces many homes on the other side and it wouldn't take much to cross over and dock up, grab something and leave undetected.

We've had gas stolen and there was a ring of thieves stealing personal watercrafts for a while.

Unless the residents have good lighting, it's also dark and I can see someone getting away pretty easily.

ITA, just possible someone came in by boat, abducted this little girl and just trolled off. They could have used duct tape or chlorform, God forbid. It just makes no sense. I believe the picture of the (back door) actually looked like a side door possibly off the kitchen, right side of house. Dad said he kept it bolted and it was hard to close, hardly used. Front of house looks like a screen porch area, easier escape out the back/side door. JMO

desmom

02-13-2009, 04:42 PM

You're correct. Moreover, who wants a 17-year old giving permission for anything except for "extra fries"?

I do not have an issue with her age. When I was 16, I babysit 10 hours a day 5 days a week for a 4 year old and a 2 year old and drove the children to various events and programs.

jmo

ortiga

02-13-2009, 04:43 PM

But if he carried her straight to the water and a waiting boat would the dogs still be able to pick up her scent along the way? Possibly cross-country or as the crow flies ... it wouldn't have taken long if it was only about five blocks.

Leaving by water would be the easiest, if it was planned ahead of time as it appears to have been, IMO

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:45 PM

Unless he propped the back door open with the cinder block before he came in? I agree, I can't see someone coming in, going back out to get a cinder block, then going back in again to snatch the child. But I could see someone grabbing a cinder block from outside and using it to prop the door open on his way in so he could get back out quickly and quietly, without worrying about the door slamming behind him.

IMO

No, I'm pretty sure that the cynder block was put there before he entered...he figured he would have his hands full exiting and he didn't want the door to slam close because it would make a noise....which is why, in my opinion, he is someone who has been to that house before...he knew the outlay.....Let's not only think of a man taking her to harm her...it could very well be a woman who took her....either way, I hope no one hurts her...I pray for her safe return......

StickyBeak

02-13-2009, 04:45 PM

You have pointed out some very good things in your post. I don't know that area but I do know of areas similar to what you have described. The little boy from Immokalee, Adji hasn't been found yet that I know of. That is a very poor, uneducated area, though families do survive. I'm beginning to think that some posters do not understand the below poverty levels. It appears to me that the father is innocent, but I'm still holding out on Misty. When I first heard it, I thought "she is connected to the disappearance". I could be wrong. Looks like a lot of bickering going on here this after. All the while an innocent little child is missing. I don't get it.

This looks to be a very rural area, back woods so to speak. I bet plenty of people could live there undetected, trapping, fishing, hunting off the land, County Boys do survive and all that kind of mind set.
Doesn't mean they care any less about their children, just surviving any way they know how IMO

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:46 PM

I thought of that too and had a big problem why someone would do that. Big question in my book! The 911 operator told her to tell the father NOT to touch the door and she turn around and did just that.

Barbara fl.

02-13-2009, 04:48 PM

I cried with him too...

I'm speaking more about internet posters here and on other boards... And some TH as well.

The same thing happened with the Groene's as well- posters insisting it happened because of drugs or drug debts- then it was the father (long hair and rode a bike) or the brother who had done it.

Speculations are a mainstay in any case but when those idea's become damaging to the victims and not based on facts, then we need to step back I believe.

I agree, I wasn't on these boards back then....I came on while the PS case was going on....But I can certainly get an idea of just how condemning some posters could have gotten........I guess it's just human nature that make people think the worst......(for some, that is)...

NikkiG77058

02-13-2009, 04:48 PM

No I dont know how many days a week he worked but I am assuming he worked a minimum of 3 and that would mean that is 60 hours at the least that she is caring for the children.

Since when does 12 x 3 = 60? He works 12 hour shifts, you assume he works 3 days per week...um, last I checked, that was 36 hours; not 60, as your post indicated.

IMO

IM4Truth

02-13-2009, 04:49 PM

No I dont know how many days a week he worked but I am assuming he worked a minimum of 3 and that would mean that is 60 hours at the least that she is caring for the children.

I don't get your point. I'm trying to catch up so have missed some things. Is Misty a high-school drop out? If so, what would be wrong with any amount of hours she was watching the children? It appears she is a live-in girlfriend and her only job was probably caring for the children and keeping house.

ortiga

02-13-2009, 04:51 PM

The father said he installed the deadbolt himself. He placed it high enough that the kids could not reach it.

So, like another poster said, the perp opened the screen door and put the cinder block there then went in the front door, opened the dead bolt, left the door open, got the little girl and out the door. Was the deadbolt locked from the inside or just closed from the inside?

Tracian

02-13-2009, 04:51 PM

This little girl had a HEART problem! If Misty couldnt understand the gravity of calling 911 when a child is missing in the middle of the night who would leave a child with a serious cardiac problem with her???????? Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that is more obvious now then it was before but it doesnt matter, the father should have erred on the side of safety to begin with.

Where did you read she had a heart problem? She has Turner Syndrome, but that does not mean she has a cardiac condition.

emdragon

02-13-2009, 04:51 PM

This little girl had a HEART problem! If Misty couldnt understand the gravity of calling 911 when a child is missing in the middle of the night who would leave a child with a serious cardiac problem with her???????? Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that is more obvious now then it was before but it doesnt matter, the father should have erred on the side of safety to begin with.

Serious heart condition? I know that Turners CAN cause heart issues among a number of problems but all I remember reading was she need hormone shots...where did I miss the heart condition?

Unperson1984

02-13-2009, 04:51 PM

Whatever age they are when they can legally consent to medical treatment and are mature enough to call 911 in an obvious emergency. That would be the right age in my opinion.

In a perfect world I would agree, sadly we don't live in a perfect world. This is a young, obviously uneducated, single father, I imagine a perfect Mary Poppins nanny was well beyond his financial ability.

HumblePie

02-13-2009, 04:52 PM

This little girl had a HEART problem! If Misty couldnt understand the gravity of calling 911 when a child is missing in the middle of the night who would leave a child with a serious cardiac problem with her???????? Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that is more obvious now then it was before but it doesnt matter, the father should have erred on the side of safety to begin with.

I'm agreeing with you Brat. There's a serious lack of appropriate parenting in this case. That shouldn't matter at this point, the only thing is that Haleigh is returned safely.

However, since we live in the land of speculation, trying to understand the how and why of this family is appropriate.

Motomom

02-13-2009, 04:53 PM

You didnt account for sleeping when he comes home either... obviously! Assuming he sleeps only 6 hours a day that is 18 hours of the day that she is caring for the children. If he sleeps 8 hours thats 20 a day.

And you are not accounting for the children sleeping either. They go to bed at 8. If they go to sleep there abouts.. she has them from 3 to 8 and the rest of the time they are sleeping. Also..a Day..not every day. we don't know his schedule.

Tracian

02-13-2009, 04:54 PM

You didnt account for sleeping when he comes home either... obviously! Assuming he sleeps only 6 hours a day that is 18 hours of the day that she is caring for the children. If he sleeps 8 hours thats 20 a day.

Haliegh is also in school...so he could sleep while she is in school, which only makes one child in the home to care for, and again, having a 17 year old babysitter is not out of the ordinary.

NikkiG77058

02-13-2009, 04:54 PM

You didnt account for sleeping when he comes home either... obviously! Assuming he sleeps only 6 hours a day that is 18 hours of the day that she is caring for the children. If he sleeps 8 hours thats 20 a day.

Wow, there's no need to be so condescending...lord, I was just clarifying the math.
Furthermore, you didn't account for other care takers...obviously! With his mother being so close, you don't think it's possible she kept the children sometimes? SHEESH! :cursing:

5swab5

02-13-2009, 04:55 PM

(snipped) Bedwetting rage is not ruled out. At least not by me.

It is at the tippy-top of my list. MOO

ETA: IF Haleigh was harmed by her dad or the GF.

jewel6

02-13-2009, 04:55 PM

dont forget 5 mins left.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=131165&catid=3

penguinlady

02-13-2009, 04:55 PM

I want to know about the kitchen light being on!

Out of curiosity..why??

K!

HI_CYCLE

02-13-2009, 04:56 PM

You have pointed out some very good things in your post. I don't know that area but I do know of areas similar to what you have described. The little boy from Immokalee, Adji hasn't been found yet that I know of. That is a very poor, uneducated area, though families do survive. I'm beginning to think that some posters do not understand the below poverty levels. It appears to me that the father is innocent, but I'm still holding out on Misty. When I first heard it, I thought "she is connected to the disappearance". I could be wrong. Looks like a lot of bickering going on here this after. All the while an innocent little child is missing. I don't get it.
I lived in Naples for 20+ years.We often come here Clay County, to visit my parents. We would drive SR 27 and go through Immokalee. We always made sure our doors were locked and windows up. Now the streets were full of people who were not scared at all. Strange huh?

Tracian

02-13-2009, 04:56 PM

It was in the custody dispute accusations that mom did not take her to the cardiologist. BTW- Turners can cause heart defects or problems. They go hand in hand.

Apparently she was being cared for properly if that was one of the reasons the courts gave the father custody.

I read that it could when I looked up Turners, but as far as I know she was not on medication for a heart condition.