Fisher/Young case 2/12

[5swab5]

I guess you missed the part in the constitution about being innocent until proven guilty. What would be distasteful to the framers would be using the invocation of a right against someone.

It always makes me shake my head when someone claims exercising a right is 'hiding behind' that right. Are you hiding behind the 1st Amendment by posting here?

The presumption of innocence attaches during a trial, not during an investigation! MOO

[alterEgo©]

The presumption of innocence attaches during a trial, not during an investigation! MOOIf it weren't for the presumption of innocence, an investigation wouldn't be necessary. LE could just come haul you off to jail.

[5swab5]

If it weren't for the presumption of innocence, an investigation wouldn't be necessary. LE could just come haul you off to jail.


Sounds good to me. MOO

[5swab5]

I guess you missed the part in the constitution about being innocent until proven guilty. (snipped)

I didn't miss it, because it is not in it. MOO

[janesdeaan]

"Complicated case", Michelle was killed in her home where Jason's DNA would naturally be and premeditated to the max. This kind of investigation takes longer than your run-of-the-mill intruder slaughter.

Where is all the stranger DNA? The only DNA that has been mentioned, is either a match to Jason's or he can't be excluded. MOO

Ya swabby, and that is the big thing to me, no foreign dna. Only Jason's, and not only his dna, but his print surrounded by Michelle's blood spatter. hmmm...not looking to good

[janesdeaan]

Can you imagine how happy Meredith and Linda must be these days ? Yesterday, Michelle's birthday (32) must have had a little better ambiance
then past b-days, what with the upcoming "homecoming" of the little princess Cassidy and all that entails. YAY !!!

[Stellagant]

I didn't miss it, because it is not in it. MOO

FYI: It's covered under Amendment IX.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[Stellagant]

The presumption of innocence attaches during a trial, not during an investigation! MOO

The right to due process and the right to not self-incriminate do attach during an investigation here in America.

[achristie]

Can you imagine how happy Meredith and Linda must be these days ? Yesterday, Michelle's birthday (32) must have had a little better ambiance
then past b-days, what with the upcoming "homecoming" of the little princess Cassidy and all that entails. YAY !!!

So true, Janesdean, especially for MF, after the way she has been trashed by certain people on this board. It's wonderful. SHE HAS WON !!!!!!!!!! And deservedly so. As sad as she is about losing her only sister FOREVER, she can now have some joy spending time with her niece. It's such a good thing.

MOO Aggie

[Kat4Eagles]

Can you imagine how happy Meredith and Linda must be these days ? Yesterday, Michelle's birthday (32) must have had a little better ambiance
then past b-days, what with the upcoming "homecoming" of the little princess Cassidy and all that entails. YAY !!!


So, what happens when C is torn away from her Dad , and is homesick for the life and people she loves , plus being taken away from the security of the things she has become used to , such as her day care center, her dancing classes, and any friends she has made?

What happens if she starts to resent the people who made it possible?

And, in 6 months time, when she is starting to adjust, she goes back to Dad again?

What happens ,when, back in Raleigh, someone points out to her what happened to her Mom?
The child is in for some tough times.

I hope when she is old enough, she will choose to be reunited with her Dad.

Her choice, not the courts.
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Ya swabby, and that is the big thing to me, no foreign dna. Only Jason's, and not only his dna, but his print surrounded by Michelle's blood spatter. hmmm...not looking to good

How is there no foreign DNA?
It has never been made public either way.
Just the 2 different shoe sizes.
And, if you think about it, there would have been no reason to fingerprint so many other people if there were not some kind of prints that did not belong to Jason.
They had Jason's prints to make any matches in blood, etc.
Why would they need others?
If no foreign dna or prints were found?

Kat

[awareness]

So, what happens when C is torn away from her Dad , and is homesick for the life and people she loves , plus being taken away from the security of the things she has become used to , such as her day care center, her dancing classes, and any friends she has made?

What happens if she starts to resent the people who made it possible?

And, in 6 months time, when she is starting to adjust, she goes back to Dad again?

What happens ,when, back in Raleigh, someone points out to her what happened to her Mom?
The child is in for some tough times.

I hope when she is old enough, she will choose to be reunited with her Dad.

Her choice, not the courts.
Kat


IMO you are assuming Cassidy will feel all those feelings you outlined above. She may feel those things, but she also may not feel those things. Its apparent to me based on a few things, but also based from the custody agreement, that Cassidy loves Linda & Meredith and they love her. She clearly knows the Fishers, and while Im not a mind reader or know Cassidy at all my guess is she loves them.

Its MO Cassidy would be more prone to feel all those feelings you outlined above IF she were going to somewhere she didnt know the people at all. Or to another home she'd never been to. I'm pretty sure Cassidy's been to the home she'll be living in after the transition period is over.

Im sure she will probably miss her Dad. And the rest of the Youngs, but she'll see them. Unlike Linda & Meredith who werent allowed to see Cassidy for quite some time.

But its also my opinion her Dad already took her away from her home where she was at, her life she knew/friends, regular company of the Fishers (aside of Alan & wife) and moved to Pat's house. Plus I also feel he murdered Michelle & Rylan, the most important companionship she probably had was Michelle her Mother.

You are also assuming that after 6 months she'll be transfered back to the Youngs full time? Am I understanding that right?

No matter where she is at, Im sure in the future someone will bring up the murder of her mother. As far as Cassidy living with Jason in the future, he may be in jail at that time. Maybe not, but maybe he will be. Time will tell. My guess is if Cassidy has any issues, the Fisher's would seek help for her to work through them.

JMO/IMO

[Barbara2]

<snipped>

And, in 6 months time, when she is starting to adjust, she goes back to Dad again?

<snipped>
Kat

Where in the order is it stated that she goes back to her father in 6 months? I did not see that in the document.

[alterEgo©]

Sounds good to me. MOOOh good, then you won't be complaining when it happens to you.

[Barbara2]

Oh good, then you won't be complaining when it happens to you.

"First, it should be pointed out that if you did it, you're guilty, no matter what. So you're not innocent unless you're truly innocent. However, our system presumes innocence, which means that legally speaking, even the obviously guilty are treated as though they are innocent, until they are proven otherwise."

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent

[alterEgo©]

I didn't miss it, because it is not in it. MOO
Sure it is. It's called 'due process' and it's in the 5th and 14th Amendments.

[alterEgo©]

"First, it should be pointed out that if you did it, you're guilty, no matter what. So you're not innocent unless you're truly innocent. However, our system presumes innocence, which means that legally speaking, even the obviously guilty are treated as though they are innocent, until they are proven otherwise."

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent

Non Sequitur word salad.

[alterEgo©]

Where in the order is it stated that she goes back to her father in 6 months? I did not see that in the document.
That's when his custody time starts to be EOW.

[Barbara2]

Non Sequitur word salad.

You could just say you disagree without basis.

[Barbara2]

That's when his custody time starts to be EOW.

That's getting her less, not getting her back. IMO

[alterEgo©]

Ya swabby, and that is the big thing to me, no foreign dna. Only Jason's, and not only his dna, but his print surrounded by Michelle's blood spatter. hmmm...not looking to good
But still no indictment or arrest.

hmmmmm

[alterEgo©]

You could just say you disagree without basis.
No I couldn't, those are your words, I'll stick to mine.

[alterEgo©]

That's getting her less, not getting her back. IMO
Kat didn't say he was 'getting her back', she said Cassidy 'goes back to her dad' at that time.

Altho both are true because Jason will 'get her back' for the weekend or she will 'go back to her dad' for the weekend or Holiday

[Barbara2]

No I couldn't, those are your words, I'll stick to mine.

Non Sequitur word salad.

[Barbara2]

Kat didn't say he was 'getting her back', she said Cassidy 'goes back to her dad' at that time.

Which she does.

She "goes back to her dad" every time she leaves Meredith's. That happens much sooner than 6 months. The "6 month" statement is irrelevant. IMO

[5swab5]

Where in the constitution does it say innocent until proven guilty?

This principal is not in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, or any other founding document of the United States. It was already an unwritten tenant of English Common Law. The phrase entered US law through a Supreme Court decision which reversed a lower court because the jury had not been instructed "The law presumes that persons charged with crime are innocent until they are proven by competent evidence to be guilty" in 1894.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_in_the_constitution_does_it_say_innocent_unt il_proven_guilty

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I hope it doesn't cause the world to stop spinning on it's axis, but I agree with you.

Totally agree.

Did you feel that jolt? :lol:

[alterEgo©]

Non Sequitur word salad.Hey! Use your own words!! :tonguewag:

[alterEgo©]

Did you feel that jolt? :lol:It knocked me off my chair! :laugh:

[alterEgo©]

Where in the constitution does it say innocent until proven guilty?

This principal is not in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, or any other founding document of the United States. It was already an unwritten tenant of English Common Law. The phrase entered US law through a Supreme Court decision which reversed a lower court because the jury had not been instructed "The law presumes that persons charged with crime are innocent until they are proven by competent evidence to be guilty" in 1894.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_in_the_constitution_does_it_say_innocent_unt il_proven_guilty
uh huh, basic 5th and 14 amendment due process stuff as held in Cochran et al. v US,157 U.S. 286,15 S.Ct. 628,39 L.Ed. 704

[Stellagant]

Non Sequitur word salad.

Indeed, it should be pointed out that if you did NOT do it, you're INNOCENT, no matter what, which is why our system presumes innocence. Which means that legally speaking, even the obviously guilty are treated as though they are innocent, until they are proven otherwise.

I guess some here have never heard of Richard Jewell.

[Stellagant]

Kat didn't say he was 'getting her back', she said Cassidy 'goes back to her dad' at that time.

Altho both are true because Jason will 'get her back' for the weekend or she will 'go back to her dad' for the weekend or Holiday

Unless, of course, there is a change of circumstances that negates the agreement altogether, such as Meredith being named a suspect.

[Jules2]

Indeed, it should be pointed out that if you did NOT do it, you're INNOCENT, no matter what, which is why our system presumes innocence. Which means that legally speaking, even the obviously guilty are treated as though they are innocent, until they are proven otherwise.

I guess some here have never heard of Richard Jewell.


Don't the "obviously guilty" (when asked) cooperate with LE in order to clear their name?

Don't loving and grieving husbands want to do everything it takes to find out who was responsible for murdering their wives?

I'd provide links to all the innocent people who cooperated with LE even though they were considered suspects at one time or another, but there are too many to list.


imo

[5swab5]

Unless, of course, there is a change of circumstances that negates the agreement altogether, such as Meredith being named a suspect.

OR Wake County's, primary suspect, AKA Jason slayer Young being arrested. MOO

[jerzeegirl]

Don't the "obviously guilty" (when asked) cooperate with LE in order to clear their name?

Don't loving and grieving husbands want to do everything it takes to find out who was responsible for murdering their wives?

I'd provide links to all the innocent people who cooperated with LE even though they were considered suspects at one time or another, but there are too many to list.


imo

i can name quite a few. Although its everyones constitutional right to remain silent so you wont incriminAte yourself, soooooo many push that right aside to help the investigation of their loved one. Believe it or not, some spouses actually want their wives/husbands killer caught. I know it would be a risk to talk, but if you are innocent you can take that risk. Especially when it came down to the wrongful death suit and custody suit. ThaTs when i truly thought that if he was really innocent, hed open his mouth. Only thing that caME from him was, go ahead call me a slayer, dont care, go ahead take primary custody of my daughter , i dont care. All he cared about was himself, once again.

[Kat4Eagles]

IMO you are assuming Cassidy will feel all those feelings you outlined above. She may feel those things, but she also may not feel those things. Its apparent to me based on a few things, but also based from the custody agreement, that Cassidy loves Linda & Meredith and they love her. She clearly knows the Fishers, and while Im not a mind reader or know Cassidy at all my guess is she loves them.

Its MO Cassidy would be more prone to feel all those feelings you outlined above IF she were going to somewhere she didnt know the people at all. Or to another home she'd never been to. I'm pretty sure Cassidy's been to the home she'll be living in after the transition period is over.

Im sure she will probably miss her Dad. And the rest of the Youngs, but she'll see them. Unlike Linda & Meredith who werent allowed to see Cassidy for quite some time.

But its also my opinion her Dad already took her away from her home where she was at, her life she knew/friends, regular company of the Fishers (aside of Alan & wife) and moved to Pat's house. Plus I also feel he murdered Michelle & Rylan, the most important companionship she probably had was Michelle her Mother.

You are also assuming that after 6 months she'll be transfered back to the Youngs full time? Am I understanding that right?

No matter where she is at, Im sure in the future someone will bring up the murder of her mother. As far as Cassidy living with Jason in the future, he may be in jail at that time. Maybe not, but maybe he will be. Time will tell. My guess is if Cassidy has any issues, the Fisher's would seek help for her to work through them.

JMO/IMO

So, it is just going to be a smooth transition, and everyone is going to live happily ever?

Got it!!

Kat

[jerzeegirl]

So, it is just going to be a smooth transition, and everyone is going to live happily ever?

Got it!!

Kat

Well, you should really question jason about that, his doing, he felt it was in the best interest of HIS child. Page 2 of the custody pdf is where it says that.

You stated up thread that maybe Cassidy will resent the Fishers for taking her away from her father. I hardly believe that will happen when she realizes her father didnt open his mouth to keep her. He traded his freedom for secondary custody (visitation). Im sure she will find that out on her own, its documented all over the internet. I believe the resentment will be towards jason not Meredith nor Linda.

[Kat4Eagles]

But still no indictment or arrest.

hmmmmm


Exactly, and the way this is playing out, there may never be.

But, whatever happens, there is still a little girl
getting ready to leave her Daddy.

And, while I guess there will be a lot of compromises
in everyone's life to make things easier for her, it
won't be the same.

I still don't know why if everyone is so sure Jason is going
to be arrested, that this arrangement could not have waited.

You can clearly see CY is Daddy's girl, she looks exactly like him.

I hope that all parties will consider other options, should this all become
too difficult for CY.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Well, you should really question jason about that, his doing, he felt it was in the best interest of HIS child. Page 2 of the custody pdf is where it says that.

You stated up thread that maybe Cassidy will resent the Fishers for taking her away from her father. I hardly believe that will happen when she realizes her father didnt open his mouth to keep her. He traded his freedom for secondary custody (visitation). Im sure she will find that out on her own, its documented all over the internet. I believe the resentment will be towards jason not Meredith nor Linda.

Who do you think CY will believe?
And, if Jason explains the undue pressure he was under to make such a sacrifice in her behalf?

I am all for justice too, but there are other cases when justice failed to be achieved, and the families became so consumed with vegenance and hatred , that they would do anything and go after anything to somehow make someone pay.

I am not saying that is happening here, but I don't know why an arrest could not happen first, and then anything that followed, would be more justifiable.
Including the removal of a child from her father and his family.

Kat

[jerzeegirl]

Exactly, and the way this is playing out, there may never be.

But, whatever happens, there is still a little girl
getting ready to leave her Daddy.

And, while I guess there will be a lot of compromises
in everyone's life to make things easier for her, it
won't be the same.

I still don't know why if everyone is so sure Jason is going
to be arrested, that this arrangement could not have waited.

You can clearly see CY is Daddy's girl, she looks exactly like him.

I hope that all parties will consider other options, should this all become
too difficult for CY.

Kat

Kat? Prior to the cusody suit, you were demanding a reason why Linda Fisher wasnt going after custody of Cassidy. Now that they did, you switch back to, why couldnt they wait. Do you ever seriously get tired of defending him? I tried to way back when, waaaay back, it was exhausting. You contradict yourself from one SW to the next. This by no means is a slam to you but you were seriously quite upest back then and couldnt believe they didnt go for custody right off the bat.

[jerzeegirl]

Who do you think CY will believe?



Kat



I will assume she will believe the custody document that has been made public. Cant argue with that.

[Stellagant]

Don't the "obviously guilty" (when asked) cooperate with LE in order to clear their name?

Don't loving and grieving husbands want to do everything it takes to find out who was responsible for murdering their wives?

I'd provide links to all the innocent people who cooperated with LE even though they were considered suspects at one time or another, but there are too many to list.


imo

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?

[jerzeegirl]

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?



Pleading the fifth doesnt make u innocent either.

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat? Prior to the cusody suit, you were demanding a reason why Linda Fisher wasnt going after custody of Cassidy. Now that they did, you switch back to, why couldnt they wait. Do you ever seriously get tired of defending him? I tried to way back when, waaaay back, it was exhausting. You contradict yourself from one SW to the next. This by no means is a slam to you but you were seriously quite upest back then and couldnt believe they didnt go for custody right off the bat.

I wondered why, if the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, which we know that they do, how they could continue for almost 28 months to allow their grandchild and niece to live with him?

That they were not concerned for her safety?
That they were not in fear she may have witnessed the murder?

I have admitted that it is getting way more difficult to defend Jason after the recent things that have happened, but, I also question that there has to be a reason there has not been an arrest.

Can you also honestly admit that has to be the most troubling fact here at this time?

Kat

[Stellagant]

Exactly, and the way this is playing out, there may never be.

But, whatever happens, there is still a little girl
getting ready to leave her Daddy.

And, while I guess there will be a lot of compromises
in everyone's life to make things easier for her, it
won't be the same.

I still don't know why if everyone is so sure Jason is going
to be arrested, that this arrangement could not have waited.

You can clearly see CY is Daddy's girl, she looks exactly like him.

I hope that all parties will consider other options, should this all become
too difficult for CY.

Kat

It isn't going to happen, imo. I think LE will announce Meredith Fisher is a suspect.

[Kat4Eagles]

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?


Or, the reasoning that says L E is waiting for the perfect time to arrest Jason?
That they have enough evidence, but they want to wait for the perfect
day?
:rolleyes:
Kat

[Stellagant]

Pleading the fifth doesnt make u innocent either.

Nobody in this case has plead the fifth.

[Kat4Eagles]

I will assume she will believe the custody document that has been made public. Cant argue with that.

Can not argue with it, but maybe can explain it.

Kat

[Stellagant]

I wondered why, if the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, which we know that they do, how they could continue for almost 28 months to allow their grandchild and niece to live with him?

That they were not concerned for her safety?
That they were not in fear she may have witnessed the murder?

I have admitted that it is getting way more difficult to defend Jason after the recent things that have happened, but, I also question that there has to be a reason there has not been an arrest.

Can you also honestly admit that has to be the most troubling fact here at this time?

Kat

I have to disagree. If the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, they wouldn't have agreed to share custody, give up custody even before Jason had a chance to respond or undergo a psych evaluation.

Nosiree, I think their actions are a reflection of consciousness of their own guilt and they know he didn't kill Michelle. The DA has given the Fishers plenty of rope, imo.

[jerzeegirl]

Can you also honestly admit that has to be the most troubling fact here at this time?

Kat



That he hasnt been arrested? Yes, it is very troubling for me. But im not LE or the DA. We dont have everything in front of us at our fingertips. Could there be one thing that they are stumbling on and are hoping all these sw's for emails will reveal? I dunno. But even if hes never arrested, you have to remember, thousands of murderers get away with their crimes, in so many peoples eyes, hes guilty and i truly believe that Linda and Meredith believe he is guilty and maybe theyre afraid he will never pay for this crime and they do not want to see cassidy raised in a home with the person who bludgeoned her mother. Try to see it from that perspective. They arent keeping him away from CY as he did to them. He will still be a part of her life. He was granted a hell of alot more time with CY by a judge than he allowed for his daughter to see her maternal gm and aunt for the past two years.

If LF and MF waited for an arrest to take custody of Cassidy, it may have never happened. Im not one to think that an arrest is imminent, im just one that has the opinion that he is guilty as hell. ALTHOUGH, i do believe there has been more activity in this case in the last few months than there has been since day one.

[Stellagant]

Or, the reasoning that says L E is waiting for the perfect time to arrest Jason?
That they have enough evidence, but they want to wait for the perfect
day?
:rolleyes:
Kat

Jason has consistently remained silent and they could wait forever and that's not going to change, imo.

LE patiently waited for the motive to emerge and it finally has, imo.

[Jules2]

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?


And that will probably be your excuse when Jason is arrested, I'm sure.

The innocent have nothing to hide, especially if their cooperation could help bring their loved one's killer to justice.

I guess Jason doesn't care to seek justice for Michelle.


Amazing how strangers from all over the world care more about seeking justice for her than her own husband.

IMO

[Stellagant]

That he hasnt been arrested? Yes, it is very troubling for me. But im not LE or the DA. We dont have everything in front of us at our fingertips. Could there be one thing that they are stumbling on and are hoping all these sw's for emails will reveal? I dunno. But even if hes never arrested, you have to remember, thousands of murderers get away with their crimes, in so many peoples eyes, hes guilty and i truly believe that Linda and Meredith believe he is guilty and maybe theyre afraid he will never pay for this crime and they do not want to see cassidy raised in a home with the person who bludgeoned her mother. Try to see it from that perspective. They arent keeping him away from CY as he did to them. He will still be a part of her life. He was granted a hell of alot more time with CY by a judge than he allowed for his daughter to see her maternal gm and aunt for the past two years.

If LF and MF waited for an arrest to take custody of Cassidy, it may have never happened. Im not one to think that an arrest is imminent, im just one that has the opinion that he is guilty as hell. ALTHOUGH, i do believe there has been more activity in this case in the last few months than there has been since day one.

LF didn't get custody, legal or physical, of Cassidy. If she shared your opinion he was guilty, why did she agree to no custody even before he answered?

[Stellagant]

And that will probably be your excuse when Jason is arrested, I'm sure.

The innocent have nothing to hide, especially if their cooperation could help bring their loved one's killer to justice.

I guess Jason doesn't care to seek justice for Michelle.


Amazing how strangers from all over the world care more about seeking justice for her than her own husband.

IMO

Putting an innocent man in jail isn't justice, no matter how you want it so.

2+ years and counting and Jason still hasn't been arrested. That's a fact, not an excuse.

[5swab5]

Who do you think CY will believe?
And, if Jason explains the undue pressure he was under to make such a sacrifice in her behalf? (snipped) Kat

Huh?

IF he wanted to keep his daughter, he needed to have a psych exam, take a deposition and fight for her in court. He CHOSE silence over Cassidy. Plain and simple. I think she will realize that without any problem. MOO

[5swab5]

It isn't going to happen, imo. I think LE will announce Meredith Fisher is a suspect.

Never gonna happen, no matter how many times you type it.

This must be your very first case. MOO

[Jester]

I don't. If she was being held by the throat while being beat about the head, she would use her hands to deflect the blows not claw at the hand around her neck.

Your position is difficult to understand. Are you suggesting that when someone neck is being crushed with one hand, and blows are coming from the other, the person will ignore the neck crushing and fend off the blows? I think that would be a tough call, but if there was difficulty breathing, I think that would be the top priority. Police described this as a beating that took up to 15 minutes. Being grabbed and bruised on the neck was only part of the murder. I think it was probably a frenzied scene, not a methodical ... hmmm ... I think I'll strangle someone. Wait, that didn't work. That makes me really, really mad. Hmmm, now I think I'll beat her to death. Michelle fought hard for her life, and many things were happening all at the same time.

[Jester]

i can name quite a few. Although its everyones constitutional right to remain silent so you wont incriminAte yourself, soooooo many push that right aside to help the investigation of their loved one. Believe it or not, some spouses actually want their wives/husbands killer caught. I know it would be a risk to talk, but if you are innocent you can take that risk. Especially when it came down to the wrongful death suit and custody suit. ThaTs when i truly thought that if he was really innocent, hed open his mouth. Only thing that caME from him was, go ahead call me a slayer, dont care, go ahead take primary custody of my daughter , i dont care. All he cared about was himself, once again.

In Jason's case, it wasn't only that his constitutional rights that were mentioned, but it was also suggested that he believed the police to be corrupt, and that he had concerns about persecution. Three days after the murder, Jason's stepfather said:

"McIntyre said he told Jason Young to get a lawyer. He said he was afraid that police would pin the death on his stepson, regardless of evidence.

"I do not want my son to be talking to any type of investigators," he said. "They're not going to be trustworthy when they talk to him."

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/507222.html

[Jester]

So, it is just going to be a smooth transition, and everyone is going to live happily ever?

Got it!!

Kat

Cassidy has joined the 50 percent of children that come from broken homes. She, like so many others, had lost the stability that comes with a two parent family. She, like so many others, will adjust, adapt, learn, grow, be happy, question her history, and hopefully become a beautiful young lady with a promising future to match that of her mother. There is no reason to assume doom and gloom for Cassidy. Her own mother came from a broken home, and was guided by her mother to become an extremely accomplished academic, valued employee, and well liked community member. I see no reason to assume that Cassidy will experience any less now that she can be guided by the same family.

In comparison, Jason's career and community contributions are in shambles, with little hope of any improvement.

[Jester]

Exactly, and the way this is playing out, there may never be.

But, whatever happens, there is still a little girl
getting ready to leave her Daddy.

And, while I guess there will be a lot of compromises
in everyone's life to make things easier for her, it
won't be the same.

I still don't know why if everyone is so sure Jason is going
to be arrested, that this arrangement could not have waited.

You can clearly see CY is Daddy's girl, she looks exactly like him.

I hope that all parties will consider other options, should this all become
too difficult for CY.

Kat

One thing is true. Children love their parents no matter how bad they are. Cassidy will leave her grandmother's home, and her father (who lives at her grandmother's home), to begin a life where she has her own home with a single parent. That is a big improvement over what she has experienced while bouncing between living with Jason's relatives.

I don't know why you think that Cassidy is not Michelle's little girl. Her looks really have nothing to do with anything. You've mentioned several times that because you think Cassidy looks like her father, she is daddy's girl. I'm not convinced it works like that.

[Jester]

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?

Strange as it may sound, the obviously guilty don't get to clear their names.

[Jester]

I wondered why, if the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, which we know that they do, how they could continue for almost 28 months to allow their grandchild and niece to live with him?

That they were not concerned for her safety?
That they were not in fear she may have witnessed the murder?

I have admitted that it is getting way more difficult to defend Jason after the recent things that have happened, but, I also question that there has to be a reason there has not been an arrest.

Can you also honestly admit that has to be the most troubling fact here at this time?

Kat

We've been through this so many times already, but I'll say it one more time. Although the family may have had suspicions for months, that was not sufficient for them to apply for custody. It was only after Jason bailed on the WDS, and was labeled the Slayer of Michelle, did the family have independent confirmation of their beliefs. With independent confirmation, they were able to proceed with a custody application. Jason could have argued the case at the WDS, and at the custody hearing. In both instances he chose to remain silent, further confirming suspicions that he was involved in Michelle's murder.

I have no doubt that the family was concerned for her safety, especially after learning about the inappropriate use of adult medication with a young child. Most likely they were very concerned that she had witnessed a murder, but, without independent confirmation, their hands were tied.

I think that an arrest could be made, and the prosecution could go forward with a case that may result in a 2nd degree conviction. Given the brutality of the murder, and the circumstances surrounding the case, I think the prosecution wants to ensure a first degree murder conviction. Let them do their job, give them the time they need, and wait for it.

[Jester]

It isn't going to happen, imo. I think LE will announce Meredith Fisher is a suspect.

LOL! Does your opinion have anything to do with Meredith forgetting where she put her keys after finding not only her big sister bludgeoned to death in a pool of her own blood; teeth avulsed, but her young daughter talking about bandaids, or does this have something to do with jellybeans? I completely missed the jellybean discussion in the search warrants.

[Jester]

Or, the reasoning that says L E is waiting for the perfect time to arrest Jason?
That they have enough evidence, but they want to wait for the perfect
day?
:rolleyes:
Kat

After seeing the Valentine's Day warrants, I might be inclined to argue the perfect day scenario, but we all know police don't work like that. If they had decided on an arrest, after 2 years, I could see that there would be a plan in the arrest. I think it would be somewhat timed so as to minimally affect children.

[Jester]

I have to disagree. If the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, they wouldn't have agreed to share custody, give up custody even before Jason had a chance to respond or undergo a psych evaluation.

Nosiree, I think their actions are a reflection of consciousness of their own guilt and they know he didn't kill Michelle. The DA has given the Fishers plenty of rope, imo.

Joint custody with one primary caregiver has replaced sole custody. The new thought is that children should have access to both parents. With joint custody, one parent is the primary (kind of like sole) custodial parent, and there is visitation with the other parent. The visitation that Jason was awarded is pretty much the same as what Haleigh's mother was awarded ... it's a standard visitation agreement even for a non-custodial parent like Haleigh's mother. It's weekends, alternating Christmas weeks, and so on. The judge offered Haleigh's mother the option of transferring the children half way between the properties, but it was declined. In Jason/Meredith case, they meet halfway as Cassidy moves back home.

There is no need for a psychological evaluation if Jason agrees to give up his parenting rights (as in primary custody). There is no desire to prevent a child from seeing her father. The arrangement is perfect. Jason and Cassidy will continue to have a relationship ... keeping in mind that children love their parents, no matter how bad they are.

If you think it's rope they have, we agree that we hope they hang themselves with it. So far, in the hangman's game, Jason is only missing a toe.

I have to wonder ... if Cassidy were to return to her home, and if she were given the opportunity to walk into her parents bedroom, would she say ... this is different than I remember? The bed was over there, the lamp was on the floor, the curtains are different, there was a hole in the wall, it was painted red, mom was on the floor, she needed a bandaid, then dad took me to my room and gave me some medicine, then I fell asleep.

[Jester]

Jason has consistently remained silent and they could wait forever and that's not going to change, imo.

LE patiently waited for the motive to emerge and it finally has, imo.

Do you mean that the police could wait forever and it's never going to change that Jason has consistently remained silent?

What do you think that motive is that the police have patiently waited for?

[Jester]

LF didn't get custody, legal or physical, of Cassidy. If she shared your opinion he was guilty, why did she agree to no custody even before he answered?

Physical custody relates to where the child lives. The child will live with Meredith after the transition period. Primary custody is equivalent to physical and legal custody, and that has been granted to Meredith, regardless of whether you acknowledge it.

I think you may find it useful to review custody definitions before you make comments about whether Meredith will have primary physical and legal of Cassidy.

Linda Fisher got everything she hoped for. Her daughter's murderer will not raise her daughter's daughter, her granddaughter will retain contact with her father, and Cassidy has the opportunity to become Michelle's daughter, rather than failed Jason's only child.

[Jester]

Putting an innocent man in jail isn't justice, no matter how you want it so.

2+ years and counting and Jason still hasn't been arrested. That's a fact, not an excuse.

You have provided neither explanation nor excuse for why your theory of suspects has not concluded with an arrest after 2+ years. How do you justify that and what makes you so critical of other theories?

Your theory is that Meredith is guilty. Your complaint is that 2 years is long enough to solve a crime and arrest someone. Assuming that is true, she has not been arrested because ______________________________________?

[alterEgo©]

Your position is difficult to understand. Are you suggesting that when someone neck is being crushed with one hand, and blows are coming from the other, the person will ignore the neck crushing and fend off the blows? I think that would be a tough call, but if there was difficulty breathing, I think that would be the top priority. Police described this as a beating that took up to 15 minutes. Being grabbed and bruised on the neck was only part of the murder. I think it was probably a frenzied scene, not a methodical ... hmmm ... I think I'll strangle someone. Wait, that didn't work. That makes me really, really mad. Hmmm, now I think I'll beat her to death. Michelle fought hard for her life, and many things were happening all at the same time.
No, my position is in line with the autopsy report which doesn't say she was 'grabbed and bruised on the neck', it says she had injuries consistent with manual strangulation. It's also my position that when the strangulation attempt failed, it ignited a rage that resulted in the severe beating. Not sure what is do difficult to understand about that.

I'm not buying into the 'theory' that she was held by the throat while being beat about the head.

[alterEgo©]

Physical custody relates to where the child lives. The child will live with Meredith after the transition period. Primary custody is equivalent to physical and legal custody, and that has been granted to Meredith, regardless of whether you acknowledge it.

I think you may find it useful to review custody definitions before you make comments about whether Meredith will have primary physical and legal of Cassidy.

Linda Fisher got everything she hoped for. Her daughter's murderer will not raise her daughter's daughter, her granddaughter will retain contact with her father, and Cassidy has the opportunity to become Michelle's daughter, rather than failed Jason's only child.
Which part of the custody order granting Meredith and Jason SHARED physical custody and SHARED legal custody did you miss?

Linda Fisher filed a complaint seeking EXCLUSIVE custody, care and control of Cassidy. She did not get ANY custody awarded to her.

Cassidy has the 'opportunity to become Michelle's daughter'???? Hello. She never stopped being Michelle's daughter.

[alterEgo©]

snip
The innocent have nothing to hide, especially if their cooperation could help bring their loved one's killer to justice.

snip
IMOThere are innocent people in prison who thought that exact same thing.

[5swab5]

Which part of the custody order granting Meredith and Jason SHARED physical custody and SHARED legal custody did you miss?

Linda Fisher filed a complaint seeking EXCLUSIVE custody, care and control of Cassidy. She did not get ANY custody awarded to her.
(snipped)

Meredith AND Linda filed the suit against Jason

The custody order grants Meredith Primary Physical Custody. IF you look at the schedule of dates and times AND do the math, you will see that Jason has been relegated to a part-time dad. A few hours on BDs, every other major holiday and a few weeks in the summer.

Tho they share physical and legal custody, it is overwhelmingly apparent who Cassidy will be spending the bulk of her time with. MOO

[5swab5]

There are innocent people in prison who thought that exact same thing.

The "guilty" in prison are as scarce as atheists in foxholes. Just ask them. MOO

[alterEgo©]

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?
It amazes me how people just can't seem to grasp the concept that EVERYTHING you say will be used against you. And how it totally violates the spirit of the 5th amendment to use someone's silence against them.

Or the absurd notion that someone has to prove their innocence by cooperating when we are all innocent until proven guilty.

[alterEgo©]

The "guilty" in prison are as scarce as atheists in foxholes. Just ask them. MOOAre you denying that innocent people have been convicted and sent to prison?

[alterEgo©]

Meredith AND Linda filed the suit against Jason

The custody order grants Meredith Primary Physical Custody. IF you look at the schedule of dates and times AND do the math, you will see that Jason has been relegated to a part-time dad. A few hours on BDs, every other major holiday and a few weeks in the summer.

Tho they share physical and legal custody, it is overwhelmingly apparent who Cassidy will be spending the bulk of her time with. MOO
Uh huh.

Perhaps you missed the argument which is that LINDA got what she asked for in her custody complaint. Not only did she NOT get any form of custody, the custody granted to Meredith was not EXCLUSIVE as asked for in the complaint.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

How exactly do the "obviously guilty" clear their name? I sure don't share your opinion that LE are so incompetent that they allow obviously guilty people to walk free for no other reason than they cooperate.

Cooperation doesn't equate innocence no matter how many years you insist it so.

How about a link to an innocent person who did not cooperate with LE and was arrested?

I for one would love for someone to find that link. Please someone show us a link to an innocent person (a spouse would be even better) who refused to cooperate with a murder investigation. Maybe even a case where the person lawyered up and never called to check on the progress of the case. How about one where all this happened, they defaulted on a WDS, and gave up primary custody of their child to avoid talking.

(Cases involving drug dealers and street gang members will not count since they don't seem to like, trust, or talk to cops anyway.)

The link to this case will provide for some interesting reading.:drool:

[5swab5]

Uh huh.

Perhaps you missed the argument which is that LINDA got what she asked for in her custody complaint. Not only did she NOT get any form of custody, the custody granted to Meredith was not EXCLUSIVE as asked for in the complaint.

Well DOH,

Linda lives in NY and Meredith lives in N.C., they can't very well cut Cassidy in half.

Who cares if it is exclusive, The paperwork is done and will be amended as needed...when Jason is arrested.

Regardless of what would have happened in an expensive, contentious, protracted legal battle, Jason probably would not have been stripped of his parental rights. I don't look for this to happen until he is arrested, if even then. So it seems by accepting Jason's counter offer, they got pretty much what they would have gotten if they had continued in court, probably a lot more. I'm sure they were aware of this through their attorneys.

In the meantime Jason gets to keep his mouth shut, prevent any more aberrant behavior from hitting the airways and protect his innocence.:Cough: IMO

And look at his child through the rear view mirror, instead of on the seat beside him.

[5swab5]

I for one would love for someone to find that link. Please someone show us a link to an innocent person (a spouse would be even better) who refused to cooperate with a murder investigation. Maybe even a case where the person lawyered up and never called to check on the progress of the case. How about one where all this happened, they defaulted on a WDS, and gave up primary custody of their child to avoid talking.

(Cases involving drug dealers and street gang members will not count since they don't seem to like, trust, or talk to cops anyway.)

The link to this case will provide for some interesting reading.:drool:

I hope you are patient, that is a tall order. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I hope you are patient, that is a tall order. MOO

What can I say, I expect that I will win the lottery one day also.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

So, what happens when C is torn away from her Dad , and is homesick for the life and people she loves , plus being taken away from the security of the things she has become used to , such as her day care center, her dancing classes, and any friends she has made?

What happens if she starts to resent the people who made it possible?

And, in 6 months time, when she is starting to adjust, she goes back to Dad again?

What happens ,when, back in Raleigh, someone points out to her what happened to her Mom?
The child is in for some tough times.

I hope when she is old enough, she will choose to be reunited with her Dad.

Her choice, not the courts.
Kat

There are a lot of "what if's" and assumptions being made here IMO.

She is going to see her dad, according to the agreement, a couple of times a month and on holidays (every other one or something like that) and for a couple of weeks during the summer. In addition, she would be leaving the daycare anyway since she is starting kindergarten.

I'm still awestruck by people so readily buying into the evil aunt and grandmother (on the mother's side) yet giving the father, who has totally violated every tenet of the marriage vows, a benefit of a doubt (to put it mildly).

I also find it a little creepy when total strangers, who freely admit that they know none of the people involved, start channeling JY and CY and telling us what they are thinking and feeling. Then these same people will accept nothing from people who do know them unless they are supporting JY. If the insider supports JY, then their word is accepted as golden and is beyond reproach.

Just my opinion and an expression of how things look to me. I'm not pointing at any specific poster. I'm just speaking in the most general of terms.:thumbsup:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It amazes me how people just can't seem to grasp the concept that EVERYTHING you say will be used against you. And how it totally violates the spirit of the 5th amendment to use someone's silence against them.

Or the absurd notion that someone has to prove their innocence by cooperating when we are all innocent until proven guilty.

I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp. What is hard to understand is how a loving and innocent husband, if that is the case, would take no interest in his wife's murder case. If he is so worried about the cops turning things around, he could easily answer questions through his lawyer. However, that hasn't happened To me, it looks like the lawyer knows facts that we don't. He also seems to believe that it's best for the cops to build there case against his client without their help. Any competent attorney that could clear his client from suspicion in a murder case would have done so long ago. If he hasn't cleared him from suspicion it's because he can't. IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I snipped your post to save space. I didn't think the judge granted JY time with his daughter I thought this was an agreement reached by the parties involved. Am I wrong?

That's the way I read it. It was an agreement, that is now binding, because it was signed by the judge. Right?

[Tia]

There are a lot of "what if's" and assumptions being made here IMO.

She is going to see her dad, according to the agreement, a couple of times a month and on holidays (every other one or something like that) and for a couple of weeks during the summer. In addition, she would be leaving the daycare anyway since she is starting kindergarten.

I'm still awestruck by people so readily buying into the evil aunt and grandmother (on the mother's side) yet giving the father, who has totally violated every tenet of the marriage vows, a benefit of a doubt (to put it mildly).

I also find it a little creepy when total strangers, who freely admit that they know none of the people involved, start channeling JY and CY and telling us what they are thinking and feeling. Then these same people will accept nothing from people who do know them unless they are supporting JY. If the insider supports JY, then their word is accepted as golden and is beyond reproach.

Just my opinion and an expression of how things look to me. I'm not pointing at any specific poster. I'm just speaking in the most general of terms.:thumbsup:

Excellent post!

You are right, its very creepy. Its continually over-looked that Jason has been named the Slayer of Michelle, Cassidy's mother, that he has not bothered to open his mouth to keep his child or to assist LE when asked, etc...

IMO, he murdered Michelle, Cassidy's mother. Why would anyone want any child around him?

Boggles the mind!

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Try this one . This man and his children were silent for 18 years before the police realized he didn't kill his wife. 18 years wow.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/29/48hours/main890980.shtml

Did you read this story? They remained "silent" about telling their story to the public (ie media) not the police. This guy did assist the police in the investigation of his wife's murder and took a polygraph for them.

"The police suspected Bill of the murder early on—especially after he failed two lie detector tests, the first given by police and a second by a polygraph expert hired by Bill himself. “The individual that I hired to take the polygraph, he said he believed what I was saying was true. He said it's just the stress that I was under,” Bill says."

It is an interesting story about the BTK killer.

[Barbara2]

Try this one . This man and his children were silent for 18 years before the police realized he didn't kill his wife. 18 years wow.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/29/48hours/main890980.shtml

He was not silent. He fully cooperated with the investigators. Did you not read the article? He took two polygraphs. That is not remaining silent and refusing to cooperate with police. They remained silent in discussing the murder with others in the aftermath. IMO

[awareness]

So, it is just going to be a smooth transition, and everyone is going to live happily ever?

Got it!!

Kat

If it were me personally, I wouldnt assume how anything about the custody agreement will or wont turn out. I personally dont know any of the Fishers or the Youngs, I cant speculate as to how Cassidy will or wont react. Clearly Cassidy loves all the parties involved. As far as what will happen, time will tell.

Perhaps there will be some problems, I dont think it will be a bad as you forecasted but JMO.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

Well, you should really question jason about that, his doing, he felt it was in the best interest of HIS child. Page 2 of the custody pdf is where it says that.

You stated up thread that maybe Cassidy will resent the Fishers for taking her away from her father. I hardly believe that will happen when she realizes her father didnt open his mouth to keep her. He traded his freedom for secondary custody (visitation). Im sure she will find that out on her own, its documented all over the internet. I believe the resentment will be towards jason not Meredith nor Linda.

ITA

Jason was the person who chose not to fight for his child. This agreement could have possibly been avoided if Jason had chosen to fight for custody. Maybe custody would have been granted anyway to the Fishers, but maybe not. Fact is we just wont know (for now, at least) because Jason chose not to fight.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

Who do you think CY will believe?
And, if Jason explains the undue pressure he was under to make such a sacrifice in her behalf?

I am all for justice too, but there are other cases when justice failed to be achieved, and the families became so consumed with vegenance and hatred , that they would do anything and go after anything to somehow make someone pay.

I am not saying that is happening here, but I don't know why an arrest could not happen first, and then anything that followed, would be more justifiable.
Including the removal of a child from her father and his family.

Kat

As part of the agreement - Jason and Meredith/Linda arent allowed to disparage the other party in front of Cassidy. IMO that's a safety measure for both sides, to ensure Cassidy will grow up in the most loving environment possible. IMO that means Jason cant say anything like the "undue pressure" put upon him. IMO that means Linda and Meredith cant tell Cassidy, "your father killed your mother" or something along those lines, or even that they think "he's a jerk". And really Cassidy's already been through enough.

I personally dont feel the Fishers are acting with vengance, if they were IMO they would have filed for custody a long time ago. They deserve to have justice for Michelle and Rylan, as well as Cassidy.

JMO/IMO

[Stellagant]

Uh huh.

Perhaps you missed the argument which is that LINDA got what she asked for in her custody complaint. Not only did she NOT get any form of custody, the custody granted to Meredith was not EXCLUSIVE as asked for in the complaint.

ITA. It's not so much argument as it is FACT that Linda Fisher agreed to no custody and Meredith Fisher agreed to only share custody even before Jason's response was due to the court. The court record proves this fact.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

In the beginning he cooperated then he stopped when it was shown that LE wasn't believing a word he said. Everyone thinks because JY didn't take a poly he is guilty this man failed two and was innocent.

I've never expressed an opinion one way or the other about Jason taking a poly. So no, everyone doesn't think that way. I trust skilled investigators more than cold machines anyway.

[Stellagant]

It amazes me how people just can't seem to grasp the concept that EVERYTHING you say will be used against you. And how it totally violates the spirit of the 5th amendment to use someone's silence against them.

Or the absurd notion that someone has to prove their innocence by cooperating when we are all innocent until proven guilty.

It is absurd but we saw the same thing in other cases. If a husband cooperates, he's lying and if he's silent, he's guilty. It's a no win. I think some posters choose to view these cases not on facts but through their own lens of bad experience in marriage. Those of us who are happily married don't hold that same bias.

[Stellagant]

In the beginning he cooperated then he stopped when it was shown that LE wasn't believing a word he said. Everyone thinks because JY didn't take a poly he is guilty this man failed two and was innocent.

Scott Peterson cooperated fully from the beginning yet rumors were rampant on the Internet that he refused to allow LE to search his house without a warrant. LE also circulated rumors that he took out a large life insurance policy on Laci shortly before her death. Neither was true.

If there ever was a case to set a precedent to remain silent and that LE is not your friend, that was it, imo.

[5swab5]

ITA. It's not so much argument as it is FACT that Linda Fisher agreed to no custody and Meredith Fisher agreed to only share custody even before Jason's response was due to the court. The court record proves this fact.

Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, the plaintiffS prevailed. Linda and Meredith had practically zero contact with Cassidy, now Meredith has PRIMARY physical custody and Jason has been demoted to a part-time father.

Logistically, it just makes sense that Meredith is the one named in the custody order, I doubt Jason would have preferred that he had to meet Linda half way between Brevard and Sayville for exchanges. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It is absurd but we saw the same thing in other cases. If a husband cooperates, he's lying and if he's silent, he's guilty. It's a no win. I think some posters choose to view these cases not on facts but through their own lens of bad experience in marriage. Those of us who are happily married don't hold that same bias.

And some of us look at each case as a separate situation with it's own set of facts,details, etc.

[jerry50]

Your position is difficult to understand. Are you suggesting that when someone neck is being crushed with one hand, and blows are coming from the other, the person will ignore the neck crushing and fend off the blows? I think that would be a tough call, but if there was difficulty breathing, I think that would be the top priority. Police described this as a beating that took up to 15 minutes. Being grabbed and bruised on the neck was only part of the murder. I think it was probably a frenzied scene, not a methodical ... hmmm ... I think I'll strangle someone. Wait, that didn't work. That makes me really, really mad. Hmmm, now I think I'll beat her to death. Michelle fought hard for her life, and many things were happening all at the same time.


The autopsy report mentioned strangulation. The ME would know the difference between holding someone down and attempted strangulation. I would think where there was bruising on her neck would lead them to that conclusion.

[jerry50]

I wondered why, if the Fishers believed Jason killed Michelle, which we know that they do, how they could continue for almost 28 months to allow their grandchild and niece to live with him?

That they were not concerned for her safety?
That they were not in fear she may have witnessed the murder?

I have admitted that it is getting way more difficult to defend Jason after the recent things that have happened, but, I also question that there has to be a reason there has not been an arrest.

Can you also honestly admit that has to be the most troubling fact here at this time?

Kat

Did you notice that the judge didn't care what the answers to these questions were when the custody agreement was signed?

[Stellagant]

Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, the plaintiffS prevailed. Linda and Meredith had practically zero contact with Cassidy, now Meredith has PRIMARY physical custody and Jason has been demoted to a part-time father.

Logistically, it just makes sense that Meredith is the one named in the custody order, I doubt Jason would have preferred that he had to meet Linda half way between Brevard and Sayville for exchanges. MOO

It is you who is spinning the facts, 5swab5. Linda Fisher did not prevail. Linda Fisher requested custody and then agreed to no custody before Jason Young responded to the Court.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is why you expend so much effort to spin the real facts and then baselessly accuse others of doing it.

[Stellagant]

Did you notice that the judge didn't care what the answers to these questions were when the custody agreement was signed?

The Judge didn't care because the Judge never held a hearing.

[5swab5]

It is you who is spinning the facts, 5swab5. Linda Fisher did not prevail. Linda Fisher requested custody and then agreed to no custody before Jason Young responded to the Court.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is why you expend so much effort to spin the real facts and then baselessly accuse others of doing it.


Linda did NOT file the action alone, Meredith was a co-plaintiff. Geeze.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/19/4172400/Fisher_custody_complaint_against_Jason_Young.pdf

Meredith now has PRIMARY physical custody of Cassidy, if that isn't prevailing, I do not know what is. MOO

[awareness]

In the beginning he cooperated then he stopped when it was shown that LE wasn't believing a word he said. Everyone thinks because JY didn't take a poly he is guilty this man failed two and was innocent.

Perhaps others think Jason is guilty because he didnt take a poly, but that's not why I think he's guilty. I think he's guilty because of the CE that IMO shows what I think is likely guilt on his behalf.

I never have even heard LE asking Jason to take a polygraph, all's Ive heard is they wanted him to come in to answer standard questioning - to which Jason has lawyered up and asserted his constitutional right not to talk. Its also MO he never has "cooperated", even in the beginning. As far as I can tell he really didn't answer questions from LE, except to say he wouldnt be talking to them.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

It is you who is spinning the facts, 5swab5. Linda Fisher did not prevail. Linda Fisher requested custody and then agreed to no custody before Jason Young responded to the Court.

What doesn't make a lot of sense is why you expend so much effort to spin the real facts and then baselessly accuse others of doing it.

That's not how I understand the agreement & what transpired. Jason responded, didnt he request a delay at first which was given to him? http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4329772/ Then he chose to settle with the Fishers and not fight for custody. Linda, Meredith, Jason and the judge all signed off on their agreement. It was at that time Meredith was given primary physical custody of Cassidy and half legal custody. IMO the judge couldnt have given Linda custody because she's a resident of another state. Linda is in no way excluded from seeing Cassidy while she's with Meredith and can move in with them if she wants to. As far as Im concerned, its a win for the Fishers.

JMO/IMO

[Jester]

No, my position is in line with the autopsy report which doesn't say she was 'grabbed and bruised on the neck', it says she had injuries consistent with manual strangulation. It's also my position that when the strangulation attempt failed, it ignited a rage that resulted in the severe beating. Not sure what is do difficult to understand about that.

I'm not buying into the 'theory' that she was held by the throat while being beat about the head.

There's nothing difficult to understand in your theory, and no one has suggested that it is difficult to understand. I merely have a different theory of the actual murder. I'm basing my theory on psychiatrist's analysis of spousal homicide and have provided supportive links.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

There's nothing difficult to understand in your theory, and no one has suggested that it is difficult to understand. I merely have a different theory of the actual murder. I'm basing my theory on psychiatrist's analysis of spousal homicide and have provided supportive links.

It is interesting that the psychiatrist says that two forms of assault are common in spousal murders. Especially since that is what seems to have taken place here. A strangulation and a beating with some sort of an object.

[alterEgo©]

I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp. What is hard to understand is how a loving and innocent husband, if that is the case, would take no interest in his wife's murder case. If he is so worried about the cops turning things around, he could easily answer questions through his lawyer. However, that hasn't happened To me, it looks like the lawyer knows facts that we don't. He also seems to believe that it's best for the cops to build there case against his client without their help. Any competent attorney that could clear his client from suspicion in a murder case would have done so long ago. If he hasn't cleared him from suspicion it's because he can't. IMO
The obligation to 'clear' comes after a charge - as in the Duke LaX case.

[alterEgo©]

There's nothing difficult to understand in your theory, and no one has suggested that it is difficult to understand. I merely have a different theory of the actual murder. I'm basing my theory on psychiatrist's analysis of spousal homicide and have provided supportive links.
:confused: Huh? You posted to me "Your position is difficult to understand".

I'm basing my theory on the autopsy report, not some analysis that doesn't even factor in known facts in this case.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The obligation to 'clear' comes after a charge - as in the Duke LaX case.

Obligation yes, but if the charge could be avoided in the first place?

Unless it's about money. Maybe the attorney can charge more if he waits until his client is charged and sent to jail. Then he can negotiate a fee and start working to clear the client. However, if the attorney could do this before hand it seems like he could save everyone (especially his client) a great deal deal of trouble by doing so. IMOO:confused:

[alterEgo©]

I for one would love for someone to find that link. Please someone show us a link to an innocent person (a spouse would be even better) who refused to cooperate with a murder investigation. Maybe even a case where the person lawyered up and never called to check on the progress of the case. How about one where all this happened, they defaulted on a WDS, and gave up primary custody of their child to avoid talking.

(Cases involving drug dealers and street gang members will not count since they don't seem to like, trust, or talk to cops anyway.)

The link to this case will provide for some interesting reading.:drool:
Ok, I will need a link to all investigations to all homicides so I can find a case to meet your criteria.

TIA.

[alterEgo©]

Obligation yes, but if the charge could be avoided in the first place?

Unless it's about money. Maybe the attorney can charge more if he waits until his client is charged and sent to jail. Then he can negotiate a fee and start working to clear the client. However, if the attorney could do this before hand it seems like he could save everyone (especially his client) a great deal deal of trouble by doing so. IMOO:confused:
What you describe in the money part is unethical.

The DA in the Duke LaX case had exculpatory evidence in his hands yet ignored it and got an indictment anyway. There is no upside for a defense atty to try to 'clear' their client before charges are brought. LE can lie thru their teeth to them about what evidence they have whereas discovery kicks in after a charge is brought and they can see exactly what evidence needs to be refuted.

[alterEgo©]

It is interesting that the psychiatrist says that two forms of assault are common in spousal murders. Especially since that is what seems to have taken place here. A strangulation and a beating with some sort of an object.If they are common, how come this is the first to have 2 forms of assault that's been discussed on these boards? I'm at a loss to think of another spousal homicide case I've heard about or followed that had 2 forms of assault.

[5swab5]

What you describe in the money part is unethical.

The DA in the Duke LaX case had exculpatory evidence in his hands yet ignored it and got an indictment anyway. There is no upside for a defense atty to try to 'clear' their client before charges are brought. LE can lie thru their teeth to them about what evidence they have whereas discovery kicks in after a charge is brought and they can see exactly what evidence needs to be refuted.

Funny that the first thing their Attorny did, was to trot their innocent clients out on 60 Minutes, for all the world to see. Same law firm as Jason has, big difference in the way their "innocent" clients are handled. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

If they are common, how come this is the first to have 2 forms of assault that's been discussed on these boards? I'm at a loss to think of another spousal homicide case I've heard about or followed that had 2 forms of assault.

http://www.courttv.com/trials/barber/

Justin Barber.

He tried to drown his wife. She fought back so he shot her.

He was also involved in several affairs and they had a big insurance policy

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Funny that the first thing their Attorny did, was to trot their innocent clients out on 60 Minutes, for all the world to see. Same law firm as Jason has, big difference in the way their "innocent" clients are handled. MOO

Exactly. Good point and a great example. Wade Smith, who represented the guys from Duke is Roger Smith's uncle.

However, in another case that the Smith's defended....."Throughout this time, Ann Miller has refused to talk to police." (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/113278/) in a case where the client was guilty.....look at what the defendant did when following the attorneys advise.

[5swab5]

http://www.courttv.com/trials/barber/

Justin Barber.

He tried to drown his wife. She fought back so he shot her.

He was also involved in several affairs and they had a big insurance policy

Moises Mendoza tried unsussefully to strangle Rachelle Tolleson...several times...but she kept "coming to", so he finally stabbed her multiple times. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Moises Mendoza tried unsussefully to strangle Rachelle Tolleson...several times...but she kept "coming to", so he finally stabbed her multiple times. MOO

I've never strangled anyone myself, but I've heard that it's more difficult than it seems. Especially, if you are only using your hands and not a rope or some other sort of "tool". IMO

[5swab5]

I've never strangled anyone myself, but I've heard that it's more difficult than it seems. Especially, if you are only using your hands and not a rope or some other sort of "tool". IMO

I agree. I think more than one murderer has been surprised by the difficulty. BTK talked about squeezing a ball to build up the strength in his hands. Compound that with the will to live and a battle is about to ensue. I think Harrison said that there was a tremendous struggle in Michelle's BR. MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Even in this case, Wade Smith arranged for the innocent family to speak.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/30/AR2007083002199.html

"Phipps was charged in a five-count state indictment with obstructing justice and lying to the State Board of Elections during its investigation of the matter." If she had retained Smith earlier, she would never have been charged with lying because she wouldn't have talked.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/phipps/story/186847.html

[alterEgo©]

Funny that the first thing their Attorny did, was to trot their innocent clients out on 60 Minutes, for all the world to see. Same law firm as Jason has, big difference in the way their "innocent" clients are handled. MOO
That happened AFTER they were indicted :read:

[alterEgo©]

http://www.courttv.com/trials/barber/

Justin Barber.

He tried to drown his wife. She fought back so he shot her.

He was also involved in several affairs and they had a big insurance policy
Oh that's right. Thanks for the reminder. So that's 2. Not hardly 'most'.

[jerzeegirl]

That happened AFTER they were indicted :read:

So you believe that IF jason is indicted, he will start talking?

I seriously doubt it. If he was going to talk, it would have been in court for the WDS or the custody hearing.

[alterEgo©]

Even in this case, Wade Smith arranged for the innocent family to speak.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/30/AR2007083002199.html

"Phipps was charged in a five-count state indictment with obstructing justice and lying to the State Board of Elections during its investigation of the matter." If she had retained Smith earlier, she would never have been charged with lying because she wouldn't have talked.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/phipps/story/186847.html
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make :huh:

[alterEgo©]

So you believe that IF jason is indicted, he will start talking?

I seriously doubt it. If he was going to talk, it would have been in court for the WDS or the custody hearing.
Never said nor implied that.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Oh that's right. Thanks for the reminder. So that's 2. Not hardly 'most'.

Sorry, I'll call in sick tomorrow and do nothing but get a list together for you. Better yet, read the study for yourself.
http://www.drdondutton.com/Papers/20%20personality%20profiles%20and%20modi%20operand i%20of%20spousal%20homicide%20perpetrators.html

BTW, it 2 more than I've gotten in response to my request.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

great example......she wasnt arrested till many years later. More than two i believe.

And she never talked or assisted with the investigation in those long 4 years. That was the point.

[jerzeegirl]

Exactly. Good point and a great example. Wade Smith, who represented the guys from Duke is Roger Smith's uncle.

However, in another case that the Smith's defended....."Throughout this time, Ann Miller has refused to talk to police." (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/113278/) in a case where the client was guilty.....look at what the defendant did when following the attorneys advise.



oh wow same lawyer as well. She followed his advise and got arrested. She also spoke to her othah lovah many times prior to her husband dying. Pesky phone records. May take willoughby a while but he gets em.

[jerzeegirl]

And she never talked or assisted with the investigation in those long 4 years. That was the point.


yeah, stella was looking for a link to a case like that. Thats a perfect example....good find. Im sure theres many others.

[alterEgo©]

Sorry, I'll call in sick tomorrow and do nothing but get a list together for you. Better yet, read the study for yourself.
http://www.drdondutton.com/Papers/20%20personality%20profiles%20and%20modi%20operand i%20of%20spousal%20homicide%20perpetrators.html (http://www.drdondutton.com/Papers/20%20personality%20profiles%20and%20modi%20operand i%20of%20spousal%20homicide%20perpetrators.html)

BTW, it 2 more than I've gotten in response to my request.
That study says only 1/5 involved multiple methods. I don't see where they say it is common for multiple methods to be used. Where did you read that?

I can't give you your link until you provide a list of ALL homicide cases so I can find ones that fits your criteria.

[alterEgo©]

i believe you did imply that with this statementUm, no. If you read back you will see that we were discussing why Jason's atty has not tried to 'clear' him. The Duke LaX case was cited as an example of the same atty's office holding a press conference and trying to clear the LaX players - but that did not happen until AFTER the LaX players were indicted and arrested. :read:

[BSNBREVARDNC]

That study says only 1/5 involved multiple methods. I don't see where they say it is common for multiple methods to be used. Where did you read that?

I can't give you your link until you provide a list of ALL homicide cases so I can find one that fits your criteria.

Shoot, I wasn't asking for all. I would have settled for one.

1/5 is kinda common. 1/100 or 1/1000 would be rather uncommon. IMO But what the hay, have a nice day:rolleyes:

Bye all........

[alterEgo©]

oh wow same lawyer as well. She followed his advise and got arrested. She also spoke to her othah lovah many times prior to her husband dying. Pesky phone records. May take willoughby a while but he gets em.I didn't follow that case, what was the 'hold up' in the investigation, the court battle over the atty disclosing what his dead client said or something else? (if you know)

[jerzeegirl]

I didn't follow that case, what was the 'hold up' in the investigation, the court battle over the atty disclosing what his dead client said or something else? (if you know)


i dont know, BSN posted the link, the article didnt say why it took so long but it seems like an interesting case. Im going to see if i can find out more about it.

[alterEgo©]

Shoot, I wasn't asking for all. I would have settled for one.

1/5 is kinda common. 1/100 or 1/1000 would be rather uncommon. IMO But what the hay, have a nice day:rolleyes:

Bye all........Well shoot, of the 134 homicides last year in a city close to me, only 4 made the news. Kinda hard to find info on cases that don't have press coverage and therefore can't be googled.

I guess 1/5 could be considered common. Maybe.

You have a real nice day, too. :rolleyes:

[alterEgo©]

i dont know, BSN posted the link, the article didnt say why it took so long but it seems like an interesting case. Im going to see if i can find out more about it.
I think that's the case Amanda Lamb wrote her book about. I hear it's a pretty interesting read.

[jerzeegirl]

it seems the hold up in the miller case was the prosecutor trying to get the doctor of annes deceased lover (committed suicide) to reveal what ann said to him. It went to the supreme court. Finally he had to reveal and im guessing that was the hold up. There was other evidence, but im assuming the prosecutor wanted this for the big ol nail in the coffin. She finally confessed after she was arrested. No trial.

[jerzeegirl]

I think that's the case Amanda Lamb wrote her book about. I hear it's a pretty interesting read.

yeah it does seem interesting, ive never stumbled upon it. I'll read more later. Found this link with lots of info.

http://www.newsobserver.com/141/arsenic/

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree. I think more than one murderer has been surprised by the difficulty. BTK talked about squeezing a ball to build up the strength in his hands. Compound that with the will to live and a battle is about to ensue. I think Harrison said that there was a tremendous struggle in Michelle's BR. MOO


I saw that someone posted recently that this tremendous struggle

lasted 15 minutes, and while there is no way to prove or disprove that

theory, you would think that the killer or killers would have some type of injuries too, right?

Gosh, who does the size 10 shoe belong to?
Kat

[jerzeegirl]

I saw that someone posted recently that this tremendous struggle

lasted 15 minutes, and while there is no way to prove or disprove that

theory, you would think that the killer or killers would have some type of injuries too, right?

Gosh, who does the size 10 shoe belong to?
Kat

im sure LE would love to know too and that may be why there hasnt been an arrest as of yet. But there is no statute of Lim. on murder so time is on LE's side.

[Kat4Eagles]

im sure LE would love to know too and that may be why there hasnt been an arrest as of yet. But there is no statute of Lim. on murder so time is on LE's side.


No, :no:
Time is on the killer(s) side, almost 28 months of free time, since Michelle was murdered.
Michelle ran out of time.
Kat

[jerzeegirl]

No, :no:
Time is on the killer(s) side, almost 28 months of free time, since Michelle was murdered.
Michelle ran out of time.
Kat


well i disagree, i would;nt feel as though time is on my side if i was in jasons shoes. No SL for murder, time on LE and DA side. 28 months being free isnt that great when you could be locked up for the rest of your life. He can have his 28 months, 30 months, 45 months as long as the end result could be the rest of his life in prison.

No need to wag the finger at me :)

[awareness]

well i disagree, i would;nt feel as though time is on my side if i was in jasons shoes. No SL for murder, time on LE and DA side. 28 months being free isnt that great when you could be locked up for the rest of your life. He can have his 28 months, 30 months, 45 months as long as the end result could be the rest of his life in prison.

No need to wag the finger at me :)

I agree with you jerzeegirl. I also didnt think you were being rude in your post at all.

JMO/IMO

[jerzeegirl]

i also dont think that the past 20 something months have been very happy times for JY. And not because hes been grieving his wife that was murdered (he told his FIL he was moving on) but because i believe he is always looking over his shoulder, waiting for the next sw, wds comes along, relinquishing primary custody of your daughter to your SIL, loss of friends, loss of employment, having to depend on family and always wondering whats next.

[Tia]

i also dont think that the past 20 something months have been very happy times for JY. And not because hes been grieving his wife that was murdered (he told his FIL he was moving on) but because i believe he is always looking over his shoulder, waiting for the next sw, wds comes along, relinquishing primary custody of your daughter to your SIL, loss of friends, loss of employment, having to depend on family and always wondering whats next.

I think initially, before the "heat" was turned up (the release of warrants, the WDS suit, the custody filing), he really thought "it would all go away".

IMO, now, he is most likely just waiting for LE to come for him.

[jerzeegirl]

I think initially, before the "heat" was turned up (the release of warrants, the WDS suit, the custody filing), he really thought "it would all go away".

IMO, now, he is most likely just waiting for LE to come for him.


just to add to my other post,
he probably took his computer and burned it and will never own a computer or use an email address again. He may have kept his mouth shut in one way, but we do see his words thru emails and such.
Id love to see an email between JY and Kim now. She wasnt very happy with her brother a year ago, can you imagine now?

[Tia]

just to add to my other post,
he probably took his computer and burned it and will never own a computer or use an email address again. He may have kept his mouth shut in one way, but we do see his words thru emails and such.
Id love to see an email between JY and Kim now. She wasnt very happy with her brother a year ago, can you imagine now?

I bet none of them are happy with him now! IMO, they all "know" he did it. If he didn't, I can't imagine any one of them supporting him giving Primary Physical Custody to Meredith.

[jerzeegirl]

I bet none of them are happy with him now! IMO, they all "know" he did it. If he didn't, I can' imagine any one of them supporting him giving Primary Physical Custody to Meredith.


I just find it odd that AF said that JY never even discussed the case with his mother or family members. I mean, isnt that weird. I understand the 5th ammendment, constitution, but not speaking to your mom, who you live with, your sister, who you live with? I mean when cassidy gets older and hears about him being suspected or hes in Jail serving a murder charge, if she asks him, dad what happened, where were you, etc., will he say i cannot answer those questions because my lawyer says so? Cmon, i would have demanded answers from my son.

[Tia]

I just find it odd that AF said that JY never even discussed the case with his mother or family members. I mean, isnt that weird. I understand the 5th ammendment, constitution, but not speaking to your mom, who you live with, your sister, who you live with? I mean when cassidy gets older and hears about him being suspected or hes in Jail serving a murder charge, if she asks him, dad what happened, where were you, etc., will he say i cannot answer those questions because my lawyer says so? Cmon, i would have demanded answers from my son.

I don't know how AF did it. He obviously suspected JY. How could he sleep with him in the same house?

How could JY be there and not assure him that he had nothing to do with it?

[jerzeegirl]

I don't know how AF did it. He obviously suspected JY. How could he sleep with him in the same house?

How could JY be there and not assure him that he had nothing to do with it?

i truly believe AF did it for the love of his grandaughter. He knew he was very sick, he wanted to see her, spend time with her. I believe he even said that in his statement to LE. But i agree, it had to be so hard.

[Tia]

i truly believe AF did it for the love of his grandaughter. He knew he was very sick, he wanted to see her, spend time with her. I believe he even said that in his statement to LE. But i agree, it had to be so hard.

Yes, he did say somthing similar, I forget the exact wording. It must have been so hard for him to share his home with someone he suspected of murdering his daughter.

[jerzeegirl]

Im sure Meredith is very excited to get to spend quality time with cassidy next wednesday. Its been over two years that theyve been separated. Im sure Linda will be flying in to NC for the visit. I wonder if Meredith has already set up a cute little bedroom for cassidy with toys and stuffed animals and books and pictures of her and her mom.

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree with you jerzeegirl. I also didnt think you were being rude in your post at all.

JMO/IMO

I didn't think she was being rude either.
The :no: icon simply means "No" with a caption or picture.
:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

i also dont think that the past 20 something months have been very happy times for JY. And not because hes been grieving his wife that was murdered (he told his FIL he was moving on) but because i believe he is always looking over his shoulder, waiting for the next sw, wds comes along, relinquishing primary custody of your daughter to your SIL, loss of friends, loss of employment, having to depend on family and always wondering whats next.

He didn't look unhappy in Puerto Rico though.
But, you are right, if he is guilty, it must be hard to get through the nite.
Wonder if Jason ever sought counseling since the murder.?
Or MM for that matter?
I think everyone may have needed some help to deal with such a crime, and its aftermath.
I still can not get over anyone wanting to live in that house, ever.
Nite..:seeya:
Kat

[Stellagant]

That's not how I understand the agreement & what transpired. Jason responded, didnt he request a delay at first which was given to him? http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4329772/ Then he chose to settle with the Fishers and not fight for custody. Linda, Meredith, Jason and the judge all signed off on their agreement. It was at that time Meredith was given primary physical custody of Cassidy and half legal custody. IMO the judge couldnt have given Linda custody because she's a resident of another state. Linda is in no way excluded from seeing Cassidy while she's with Meredith and can move in with them if she wants to. As far as Im concerned, its a win for the Fishers.

JMO/IMO

You're understanding of the agreement isn't based on all the facts. Jason's attorney asked for an extension to respond and received it from the Clerk of the Court, not from the judge. Jason never responded because Meredith agreed to share custody and Linda agreed to no custody before that deadline expired.

btw, residents of other states are given custody all the time. When and how often Linda Fisher will get to see Cassidy is up to Meredith...if the agreement lasts and I doubt it will.

[Stellagant]

And she never talked or assisted with the investigation in those long 4 years. That was the point.

She also was arrested and convicted because she was implicated by her co-conspirator, who didn't remain silent and confessed to his attorney. Not very similar at all to the Young case.

[5swab5]

No, :no:
Time is on the killer(s) side, almost 28 months of free time, since Michelle was murdered.
Michelle ran out of time.
Kat

:no: Michelle did NOT "run out of time", the slayer stole it from her!

Time is not on the slayer's side, each day without an indictment only gives the Prosecutor a few more tidbits. Jason has stagnated in Brevard for over 2 years. Doesn't sound like he has accomplished much with his time, bet he would loved to get it back once he is in a 6x9 cell.

In the two years in between, lots of evidence gathered by detectives has been made public in court documents. They show detectives apparently trying to build a case against Jason Young.

Throughout that time, Karl Knudsen, a former prosecutor and long-time defense attorney, has analyzed the documents for Eyewitness News......."It just seems to me that the longer the investigation goes on, the more little things that they get," he said. "This is how you classically built a circumstantial evidence case."

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6653529

MOO

[alterEgo©]

Karl Knudsen. Hmmmm. Isn't he the atty for the guy accused of killing that gal who worked at the same company Michelle worked at, Progressive Energy?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

She also was arrested and convicted because she was implicated by her co-conspirator, who didn't remain silent and confessed to his attorney. Not very similar at all to the Young case.

We were talking about guilty people being told to keep quiet by the Smith law firm. That was the point. Sorry you missed it IMO.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

He didn't look unhappy in Puerto Rico though.
But, you are right, if he is guilty, it must be hard to get through the nite.
Wonder if Jason ever sought counseling since the murder.?
Or MM for that matter?
I think everyone may have needed some help to deal with such a crime, and its aftermath.
I still can not get over anyone wanting to live in that house, ever.
Nite..:seeya:
Kat

Yes, he got counsel...ing. They told him not to talk remember?

But on a serious note, I don’t think he could go to counseling because he would have to talk about the case. He would be talking about it’s effect on him, his family, etc. So, I don’t see how he could go to counseling. Plus, I don’t think the Smiths would allow him to discuss anything with a counselor that may later come out in a trial. It may be difficult to get a doctor or a lawyer to talk about confidential issues in a trial but it did happen in the Ann Miller case.

I still haven’t seen any proof that he needed counseling. Seems like he hit the ground running to me. Just My Opinion Of Course.

[Stellagant]

We were talking about guilty people being told to keep quiet by the Smith law firm. That was the point. Sorry you missed it IMO.

Yes, I guess I missed your point. So you are claiming you know what goes on between attorneys of this law firm and all clients prior to the client being charged? Is that the discussion? Isn't that pure speculation on your part or have I missed a link?

[Stellagant]

Jason responded -- he and his attorney responded by offering up a shared custody arrangement that Meredith and Linda couldn't refuse. He did this to keep his mouth shut. He and his lawyer knew that if it was nice enough, they would jump at it rather than spend large amounts of time and money to try to get the court to agree to take custody away from Jason when has not been charged with a criminal act (yet). It would have been tough and like others had stated...if Jason had wanted to fight for his daughter, he probably would have won. But nah, he offered up 80% of his parenting time to keep his mouth shut.

They could have refused it I suppose, but at what cost? I mean...it may have helped with investigation if something could get JY to talk, but on the other hand...that would have been many more months of not seeing Cassidy, with the possibility of not ever seeing her again if they were to lose.

All MO, of course. And now, you will spin (and I may even get a GMAB since you like using that one).

It is a fact there was no legal response to Fishers' claim for custody ever filed with the Court by Jason Young or his attorney.

I'm not spinning anything nor am I going to keep responding to your snarky accusations.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yes, I guess I missed your point. So you are claiming you know what goes on between attorneys of this law firm and all clients prior to the client being charged? Is that the discussion? Isn't that pure speculation on your part or have I missed a link?

Pat Young stated that her son’s attorney told him not to talk. If you think she lied, call her and discuss it with her.

Bye now…

[awareness]

It is a fact there was no legal response to Fishers' claim for custody ever filed with the Court by Jason Young or his attorney.

I'm not spinning anything nor am I going to keep responding to your snarky accusations.

Slayer responded by asking for an extension.

Slayer then chose not to fight for custody.

Then they all responded together in the form of the agreement that all the parties including the judge signed off on.

Who cares anyway, its a done deal. Wont change what's happened. If you want to say Jason didn't "respond", which was his choice to respond or not respond (and he chose not to) - go right ahead. Whatever any of us say here, pro or against, has no baring on the agreement that's now in place.

JMO/IMO

[Stellagant]

Pat Young stated that her son’s attorney told him not to talk. If you think she lied, call her and discuss it with her.

Bye now…

It is a fact that Jason Young hasn't been charged with a crime. Your proclamation that he is "guilty" is your opinion you keep stating as a fact.

Here are your postings I responded to. This seems to be somewhat of a game to you where you intentionally post misrepresentations and then accuse posters who call you on it are "missing the point."

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
Exactly. Good point and a great example. Wade Smith, who represented the guys from Duke is Roger Smith's uncle.

However, in another case that the Smith's defended....."Throughout this time, Ann Miller has refused to talk to police." (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/113278/) in a case where the client was guilty.....look at what the defendant did when following the attorneys advise.

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
And she never talked or assisted with the investigation in those long 4 years. That was the point.

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
"We were talking about guilty people being told to keep quiet by the Smith law firm. That was the point. Sorry you missed it IMO."

[Stellagant]

Slayer responded by asking for an extension.

Slayer then chose not to fight for custody.

Then they all responded together in the form of the agreement that all the parties including the judge signed off on.

Who cares anyway, its a done deal. Wont change what's happened. If you want to say Jason didn't "respond", which was his choice to respond or not respond (and he chose not to) - go right ahead. Whatever any of us say here, pro or against, has no baring on the agreement that's now in place.

JMO/IMO

I care that the facts be represented accurately.

It is a fact that the matter was settled before Jason's response deadline.

[Tia]

Pat Young stated that her son’s attorney told him not to talk. If you think she lied, call her and discuss it with her.

Bye now…

She sure did.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/2062380/

"You don't talk. Period."

[alterEgo©]

Yes, he got counsel...ing. They told him not to talk remember?

But on a serious note, I don’t think he could go to counseling because he would have to talk about the case. He would be talking about it’s effect on him, his family, etc. So, I don’t see how he could go to counseling. Plus, I don’t think the Smiths would allow him to discuss anything with a counselor that may later come out in a trial. It may be difficult to get a doctor or a lawyer to talk about confidential issues in a trial but it did happen in the Ann Miller case.

I still haven’t seen any proof that he needed counseling. Seems like he hit the ground running to me. Just My Opinion Of Course.
A Dr providing couseling cannot be compelled to break Dr-patient confidentiality, at least not while the patient is still alive. In the Miller case, the Dr discussed what his now dead patient told him about a 3rd party, not about himself.

[alterEgo©]

She sure did.

http://www.ncwanted.com/unsolved/story/2062380/

"You don't talk. Period."
Sound advice.

[awareness]

I care that the facts be represented accurately.

It is a fact that the matter was settled before Jason's response deadline.

Feel free then to interpret the facts however you feel is right. Its clear some of us here share a different viewpoint of the "facts".

It also a fact Jason chose not to fight for full custody and gave primary physical and joint legal custody of Cassidy to Meredith. The agreement also allows Linda phone time with Cassidy when she's with the Young's and also visit Cassidy any time she's with Meredith - including moving in with them if she chooses.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

It is a fact that Jason Young hasn't been charged with a crime. Your proclamation that he is "guilty" is your opinion you keep stating as a fact.

Here are your postings I responded to. This seems to be somewhat of a game to you where you intentionally post misrepresentations and then accuse posters who call you on it are "missing the point."

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
Exactly. Good point and a great example. Wade Smith, who represented the guys from Duke is Roger Smith's uncle.

However, in another case that the Smith's defended....."Throughout this time, Ann Miller has refused to talk to police." (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/113278/) in a case where the client was guilty.....look at what the defendant did when following the attorneys advise.

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
And she never talked or assisted with the investigation in those long 4 years. That was the point.

Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
"We were talking about guilty people being told to keep quiet by the Smith law firm. That was the point. Sorry you missed it IMO."

Jason Young was found culpable in a civil court for the murder of his wife Michelle & unborn son Rylan, so yes it is a "fact" he was found guilty of that crime in a civil court. Link:
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4088144/32274-20081205174636577.pdf
Judge Donald Stephens ruled that Jason Young "willfully and unlawfully killed" his wife, Michelle Young.

Your right in that Jason hasnt been charged yet with a criminal court. YET, but IMO I expect that eventually. Maybe not today or tomorrow, or within the next few weeks maybe months - but eventually.

JMO/IMO

[5swab5]

It is a fact there was no legal response to Fishers' claim for custody ever filed with the Court by Jason Young or his attorney. (snipped)

GMAB,

Who do you think proposed the Child Custody Order Agreement? The Tooth Fairy?

Child Custody Consent Order:

Page 1, #5. PlaintiffS filed a custody action regarding Cassidy on December 17th, 2008.

Page 2, #11. The parties further agree that no repsonsive pleading to PlaintiffS' Complaint will be filed herein and that all motions currently pending herein are resolved by the entry of this order....

MOO

And with the stroke of a pen, Jason traded Cassidy for his continued silence, what a guy.

[Kat4Eagles]

<snipped>

Your right in that Jason hasnt been charged yet with a criminal court. YET, but IMO I expect that eventually. Maybe not today or tomorrow, or within the next few weeks maybe months - but eventually.

JMO/IMO

Maybe even years....huh?

It's already been 2 years + 3 months + 2 weeks +3 days.

Remember , it is a lot easier to win a judgement in a civil court , especially by default.

Why don't they take the same evidence they used in the civil court into a criminal court then?

Why don't they prove Jason killed Michelle beyond a reasonable doubt?

And, turn the word slayer into murderer?
And, finish the case, once and for all?
:shrug:
Kat

[5swab5]

Maybe even years....huh?

It's already been 2 years + 3 months + 2 weeks +3 days. (snipped)
Kat

There you go with that time table again. UGG.

Why don't you keep up with something nice? Like that in 3694 hours + 37 minutes (as of this post), Meredith will assume PRIMARY CUSTODY of Cassidy. MOO

[Jester]

Maybe even years....huh?

It's already been 2 years + 3 months + 2 weeks +3 days.

Remember , it is a lot easier to win a judgement in a civil court , especially by default.

Why don't they take the same evidence they used in the civil court into a criminal court then?

Why don't they prove Jason killed Michelle beyond a reasonable doubt?

And, turn the word slayer into murderer?
And, finish the case, once and for all?
:shrug:
Kat

What makes you think the police are not in the process of doing exactly that?

[Tia]

What makes you think the police are not in the process of doing exactly that?


IMO, thats exactly what they are doing right now.

"Wrapping up some loose ends".

When is Meredith's first weekend with Cassidy again? Or did she already have it?

[5swab5]

IMO, thats exactly what they are doing right now.

"Wrapping up some loose ends".

When is Meredith's first weekend with Cassidy again? Or did she already have it?

Wed. Feb. 25 @ 3PM until Mon. March 2 @ 2:30PM. MOO

[Jester]

IMO, thats exactly what they are doing right now.

"Wrapping up some loose ends".

When is Meredith's first weekend with Cassidy again? Or did she already have it?

Wednesday, at 3 o'clock, Cassidy begins her transition to her new home.

[Kat4Eagles]

There you go with that time table again. UGG.

Why don't you keep up with something nice? Like that in 3694 hours + 37 minutes (as of this post), Meredith will assume PRIMARY CUSTODY of Cassidy. MOO


Because that is all they can get!!

If they had any real, hard, concrete proof this case would be moving along like so many others.

Instead= nothing.
Kat

[Tia]

Wednesday, at 3 o'clock, Cassidy begins her transition to her new home.


Thanks Swabby and Jester!

Counting down!

[Kat4Eagles]

Wednesday, at 3 o'clock, Cassidy begins her transition to her new home.

But, it does not resolve the case on who murdered Michelle Young.
2 years
3 months
2 weeks
3 days.

+ counting.
Kat

[5swab5]

Because that is all you they get!!

If they had any real, hard, concrete proof this case would be moving along like so many others.

Instead= nothing.
Kat

No two cases move along at the same pace. Michelle's slayer will be dealt with when the time is right. Certainly don't want the DA's office jumping the gun and then having to present a case in a hurry.

I seriously doubt Jason will go for a "speedy" trial, but you never know...what does he care anyway, he won't be footing the bill. I hope he follows Ann(e) Miller's lead and confesses so he doesn't leave his parents out on the street, but I won't hold my breath.

Anyone that would give up 83% of their time with their only child, doesn't have much of a moral compass. IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Ohhh! I like this "game" (as that what it has sounded like constantly seeing days counted). Now, it is exactly 3693 hours, 57 minutes, and about 18 seconds until C is in better hands!

It is not a game when someone is brutally murdered.
It is not a game to let a killer(s) walk free.
The fact remains that too much time has been taken in solving the case.
Even 1 day would have been too long.
Not 825 days later.

825 days to collect evidence,have it sent and tested to a lab, interview people, check alibi, issue search warrants, etc.
But, if you think the case is progressing normally, check out
the Anthony case, everyday there is new discovery !!
All we have had here are old search warrants that are only coming to light, because the seal on them has expired.

:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

No two cases move along at the same pace. Michelle's slayer will be dealt with when the time is right. Certainly don't want the DA's office jumping the gun and then having to present a case in a hurry.

I seriously doubt Jason will go for a "speedy" trial, but you never know...what does he care anyway, he won't be footing the bill. I hope he follows Ann(e) Miller's lead and confesses so he doesn't leave his parents out on the street, but I won't hold my breath.

Anyone that would give up 83% of their time with their only child, doesn't have much of a moral compass. IMO


I realize that, Swabby, but it would not have come down to counting days,weeks, months, years, if there was enough for an arrest.
Kat

[Tia]

Now 3693 hours, 54 minutes and 9 seconds until Meredith has primary custody.

Perhaps that is the new way to defeat this. Every time you count down, I will too. I am hoping that CW gets sick of it and makes us both stop.

Its very juvenile IMO, I hope you can defeat it.

Jason has lost EVERYTHING and never lifted one finger to defend himself. I am rather enjoying watching the named "slayer" create his very own prision by remaining mute.

[awareness]

Kat I am not concerned LE has taken however many days/hours your time clock shows since Michelle & Rylan's brutal murder. I dont feel its a negative reflection on the Police Dept at all. Contrary, I feel it behooves them to take their time, to make sure all their "ducks are in a row" to secure a conviction. If it takes more time, so be it. If they arrest him for a criminal case, they can't try him twice - they only get a one shot deal at a conviction. I dont know them, but I would suspect the Fishers and Michelles friends would want the same.

I understand you and a few others here think its a negative perception that its taken so long. That it must mean Jason is going to walk, because he hasnt been arrested yet. That perhaps LE is doing a bad job. That's fine, we agree to disagree. There's a few other cases where the prime suspect isnt arrested right away, some time passes, but eventually LE will secure the evidence needed to get a conviction - there's been a few cases similar discussed in this very thread.

Its my guess LE will present evidence like what was presented for the WD suit, if a criminal trial happens - but only it will include much more. Its MO LE is wrapping it all up and Jason will be arrested within months.

JMO/IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

You are correct, it is NOT a game. What you failed to realize earlier when I got into a debate with you about it is that when you count down it looks immature and like a game to many people. Most everyone on this thread knows EXACTLY how long it is been. We are perfectly capable of counting on our own. You continue. And if you want to treat it like a game, so be it.

My response is:
3693 hours, 32 minutes, and 47 seconds until MF has primary custody.

And, in how many hours, will Michelle's murder be solved ?
I think that is what most people are here for, to see the case resolved.
And, time counting is allowed, if it shows the amount of time, the case has been going on.
You can count anything you want to, too.
Hope this helps.
Kat

[5swab5]

825 days to collect evidence,have it sent and tested to a lab, interview people, check alibi, issue search warrants, etc.
But, if you think the case is progressing normally, check out
the Anthony case, everyday there is new discovery !!
(snipped)Kat

Apples and Oranges between this case and the Anthony one ...N.C. does not have the "Sunshine Law".

~~~~~~~

Published Feb. 11th, 2009

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6653529

For the record, the Wake prosecutor handling the case says there's still physical and financial evidence that's being evaluated and reports that have not yet been completed.

MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat I am not concerned LE has taken however many days/hours your time clock shows since Michelle & Rylan's brutal murder. I dont feel its a negative reflection on the Police Dept at all. Contrary, I feel it behooves them to take their time, to make sure all their "ducks are in a row" to secure a conviction. If it takes more time, so be it. If they arrest him for a criminal case, they can't try him twice - they only get a one shot deal at a conviction. I dont know them, but I would suspect the Fishers and Michelles friends would want the same.

I understand you and a few others here think its a negative perception that its taken so long. That it must mean Jason is going to walk, because he hasnt been arrested yet. That perhaps LE is doing a bad job. That's fine, we agree to disagree. There's a few other cases where the prime suspect isnt arrested right away, some time passes, but eventually LE will secure the evidence needed to get a conviction - there's been a few cases similar discussed in this very thread.

Its my guess LE will present evidence like what was presented for the WD suit, if a criminal trial happens - but only it will include much more. Its MO LE is wrapping it all up and Jason will be arrested within months.

JMO/IMO

It would be a deep and great concern to all parties involved, if a case took this long without resolution!!
And, I think L E is doing a great job!!
But, hey, that's just me.
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Apples and Oranges between this case and the Anthony one ...N.C. does not have the "Sunshine Law".

~~~~~~~

Published Feb. 11th, 2009

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6653529

For the record, the Wake prosecutor handling the case says there's still physical and financial evidence that's being evaluated and reports that have not yet been completed.

MOO


After all this time, 27 months later, they are still testing stuff?
Wow!
Kat

[Jules2]

It is not a game when someone is brutally murdered.
It is not a game to let a killer(s) walk free.
The fact remains that too much time has been taken in solving the case.
Even 1 day would have been too long.
Not 825 days later.

825 days to collect evidence,have it sent and tested to a lab, interview people, check alibi, issue search warrants, etc.
But, if you think the case is progressing normally, check out
the Anthony case, everyday there is new discovery !!
All we have had here are old search warrants that are only coming to light, because the seal on them has expired.

:shrug:

Kat

Okay. let's talk about time.


Like the TIME Jason cheated on Michelle
The TIME(s) Jason has refused to cooperate in the investigation of his wife's murder.
The TIME he was late at arriving to his meeting
The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
The TIME it would have taken to make a trip to the post office to return Christmas gifts sent to Cassidy by her Grandmother and Aunt
The TIME Jason refused to answer the unlawful death suite.
The TIME Jason administered adult medications to his daughter
The TIME Jason sent his sister in-law to the house to pick up a printout for an Ebay item that no longer was available for bidding
The TIME Jason lost yet another job
The TIME Jason's DNA somehow appeared among the blood splatter
The TIME Jason googled for "one punch knockout: and "ischemia"
The TIME he agreed to relinquish full custody of his daughter




The TIME Michelle no longer has.



You can continue to post the days and weeks and months of no arrest since Michelle's murder all you want, but those numbers are meaningless as long as justice is served in the end.


It appears as if Jason didn't make the best of the time he has had so far on this earth, but LE is making sure that their time is well spent.


IMO

[5swab5]

(Snipped)
It is not a game to let a killer(s) walk free.
The fact remains that too much time has been taken in solving the case.
Even 1 day would have been too long.
Not 825 days later.

825 days to collect evidence,have it sent and tested to a lab, interview people, check alibi, issue search warrants, etc. (snipped)Kat

Psst, if you are going to be the official timekeeper, do try to be accurate. Unless Jason is picked up today, it is 841 days.

I know, it's the new math.:wink:

[Tia]

Okay. let's talk about time.


Like the TIME Jason cheated on Michelle
The TIME(s) Jason has refused to cooperate in the investigation of his wife's murder.
The TIME he was late at arriving to his meeting
The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
The TIME it would have taken to make a trip to the post office to return Christmas gifts sent to Cassidy by her Grandmother and Aunt
The TIME Jason refused to answer the unlawful death suite.
The TIME Jason administered adult medications to his daughter
The TIME Jason sent his sister in-law to the house to pick up a printout for an Ebay item that no longer was available for bidding
The TIME Jason lost yet another job
The TIME Jason's DNA somehow appeared among the blood splatter
The TIME Jason googled for "one punch knockout: and "ischemia"
The TIME he agreed to relinquish full custody of his daughter




The TIME Michelle no longer has.



You can continue to post the days and weeks and months of no arrest since Michelle's murder all you want, but those numbers are meaningless as long as justice is served in the end.


It appears as if Jason didn't make the best of the time he has had so far on this earth, but LE is making sure that their time is well spent.


IMO

This post brought tears to my eyes Jules.

[Jester]

Maybe even years....huh?

It's already been 2 years + 3 months + 2 weeks +3 days.

Remember , it is a lot easier to win a judgement in a civil court , especially by default.

Why don't they take the same evidence they used in the civil court into a criminal court then?

Why don't they prove Jason killed Michelle beyond a reasonable doubt?

And, turn the word slayer into murderer?
And, finish the case, once and for all?
:shrug:
Kat

After all this time, 27 months later, they are still testing stuff?
Wow!
Kat
First you suggest police should prove Jason killed Michelle, and then you are surprised that evidence is still being tested. Isn't it necessary to continue testing evidence until it can be proven that Jason killed Michelle?

[awareness]

It would be a deep and great concern to all parties involved, if a case took this long without resolution!!
And, I think L E is doing a great job!!
But, hey, that's just me.
Kat

Perhaps in your opinion its cause for concern. But not for me, if I were in the Fisher's shoes, Id much rather LE take their time and secure a conviction than to arrest someone in haste and lose a conviction. Justice may take time but eventually it comes.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife

The TIME Michelle no longer has.

<respectfully snipped>



The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
Yeah, like how he called MM late at night, the night OF Michelle's murder... and how he called MM the first thing the very next morning/even day-of the murder. Pathetic.

:crying: Its so very sad Michelle has no more time, nor Rylan ever had a chance.

JMO/IMO

[caffeinated]

Okay. let's talk about time.


Like the TIME Jason cheated on Michelle
The TIME(s) Jason has refused to cooperate in the investigation of his wife's murder.
The TIME he was late at arriving to his meeting
The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
The TIME it would have taken to make a trip to the post office to return Christmas gifts sent to Cassidy by her Grandmother and Aunt
The TIME Jason refused to answer the unlawful death suite.
The TIME Jason administered adult medications to his daughter
The TIME Jason sent his sister in-law to the house to pick up a printout for an Ebay item that no longer was available for bidding
The TIME Jason lost yet another job
The TIME Jason's DNA somehow appeared among the blood splatter
The TIME Jason googled for "one punch knockout: and "ischemia"
The TIME he agreed to relinquish full custody of his daughter




The TIME Michelle no longer has.



You can continue to post the days and weeks and months of no arrest since Michelle's murder all you want, but those numbers are meaningless as long as justice is served in the end.


It appears as if Jason didn't make the best of the time he has had so far on this earth, but LE is making sure that their time is well spent.


IMO

Awesome post Jules. Very well said. Brings a new perspective to the TIME issue.

[Kat4Eagles]

Psst, if you are going to be the official timekeeper, do try to be accurate. Unless Jason is picked up today, it is 841 days.

I know, it's the new math.:wink:


You did good!!
Except for last year, it was Leap Year!!
:wink:
K, we can round it off to 840, it's even worse than I thought.!!


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Okay. let's talk about time.

You can continue to post the days and weeks and months of no arrest since Michelle's murder all you want, but those numbers are meaningless as long as justice is served in the end.

<snipped>
IMO

If the time factor, doesn't mean anything, why would it matter if someone keeps track?

Think of the people who come to the board thinking, wow, is this case still going on, it helps them to know how long it has been.

I don't mind having the time of anything in this case being brought to our attention.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

First you suggest police should prove Jason killed Michelle, and then you are surprised that evidence is still being tested. Isn't it necessary to continue testing evidence until it can be proven that Jason killed Michelle?

It still needs to be proven IF Jason killed Michelle.

Kat

[5swab5]

The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
Yeah, like how he called MM late at night, the night OF Michelle's murder... and how he called MM the first thing the very next morning/even day-of the murder. Pathetic.

:crying: Its so very sad Michelle has no more time, nor Rylan ever had a chance.

JMO/IMO

No kidding, last thing at night and first thing in the morning. 50 phone calls/text messages on the 2nd of November, averaging over 30 for the previous 30 days. That is obsessive. IMO

[awareness]

No kidding, last thing at night and first thing in the morning. 50 phone calls/text messages on the 2nd of November, averaging over 30 for the previous 30 days. That is obsessive. IMO

I agree. The sheer amount of communication between him and MM is staggering. MO Jason will eventually be arrested and if that happens, and MM testifies, it'll be interesting to hear what she says. It'll be curious to see what else LE hasnt revealed yet, Im certain they have more info. Just a matter of time, they're dotting their i's and crossing their t's.
JMO/IMO

[5swab5]

You did good!!
Except for last year, it was Leap Year!!
:wink:
K, we can round it off to 840, it's even worse than I thought.!!
Kat

Of course it was, and I counted it as such.

Nov. 2006 = 28 days
Dec. 2006 = 31 days
2007 = 365 days
2008 = 366 days
Jan. 2009 = 31 days
Feb. 2009 = 20 days (if they don't pick him up today)

EQUALS 841 days, just like I posted. MOO

[jerzeegirl]

Every murder deserves justice kat. Whether an arrest is made one day, five months, four years, to some its the end result that counts. If an arrest never happens, is it something to boast about, celebrate? I guess the answer would be yes to some that truly never want to see the killer pay for his crime. I dont mean you, but sometimes you act like its a victory for every day that goes on without an arrest. All the counting and tick tock, tick tock is just stuffing it in peoples faces that michelles murderer (whomever that may be) is walking free. Time is on le and da's side, no SL for murder.

[BiggerRedDog]

If the time factor, doesn't mean anything, why would it matter if someone keeps track?
Think of the people who come to the board thinking, wow, is this case still going on, it helps them to know how long it has been.
I don't mind having the time of anything in this case being brought to our attention.
Kat
I was going to quote another post, Kat. The wagging finger one in which you quoted jerzeegirl and replaced a word in her post with asterisks. But your post disappeared. I didn't know it was okay to change other poster's quotes, and it appears you changed your mind about doing that, so I guess it's not okay.

As far as time is concerned, the sooner the better. However, I trust LE and the DA have their reasons, and I know that real life crimes don't always get solved in days, weeks, months, years even. I trust an arrest and a conviction will happen, all in good time.

And, it's enough for me to know that Michelle Marie Fisher Young was found beaten to death November 3, 2006. I don't need it broken down into years, months, weeks, hours, minutes. But if doing that makes you happy in some way, that's your prerogative.

[Kat4Eagles]

Of course it was, and I counted it as such.

Nov. 2006 = 28 days
Dec. 2006 = 31 days
2007 = 365 days
2008 = 366 days
Jan. 2009 = 31 days
Feb. 2009 = 20 days (if they don't pick him up today)

EQUALS 841 days, just like I posted. MOO

Then you are saying Michelle was murdered on Nov 2nd, cause there are only 30 days in Nov.??

Nov 2-Nov 30= 28 days, right?

I am glad I have you counting too, though!!

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree. The sheer amount of communication between him and MM is staggering. MO Jason will eventually be arrested and if that happens, and MM testifies, it'll be interesting to hear what she says. It'll be curious to see what else LE hasnt revealed yet, Im certain they have more info. Just a matter of time, they're dotting their i's and crossing their t's.
JMO/IMO

How many i's are there?
And, how many t's?
And how many little ducks have to sit in a row?
Cute visual, though.
Kat

[Stellagant]

Feel free then to interpret the facts however you feel is right. Its clear some of us here share a different viewpoint of the "facts".

It also a fact Jason chose not to fight for full custody and gave primary physical and joint legal custody of Cassidy to Meredith. The agreement also allows Linda phone time with Cassidy when she's with the Young's and also visit Cassidy any time she's with Meredith - including moving in with them if she chooses.

JMO/IMO

Fishers started the fight and chose to end it before the Clerk's deadline for Jason to respond and before the Judge could hold a hearing. This makes Jason look bad? LOL.

The agreement can be changed when there are new circumstances. The DA phoning Jason's attorney to inform them Meredith is a suspect would certainly be a change in circumstances, imo.

[Kat4Eagles]

I was going to quote another post, Kat. The wagging finger one in which you quoted jerzeegirl and replaced a word in her post with asterisks. But your post disappeared. I didn't know it was okay to change other poster's quotes, and it appears you changed your mind about doing that, so I guess it's not okay.

As far as time is concerned, the sooner the better. However, I trust LE and the DA have their reasons, and I know that real life crimes don't always get solved in days, weeks, months, years even. I trust an arrest and a conviction will happen, all in good time.

And, it's enough for me to know that Michelle Marie Fisher Young was found beaten to death November 3, 2006. I don't need it broken down into years, months, weeks, hours, minutes. But if doing that makes you happy in some way, that's your prerogative.


1) Because the name calling they used in their post is not allowed on the Board. In order to answer the post, one would have to repeat the name calling and risk being banned themselves.
Therefore, it should just be reported, as is.

2) People are becoming discouraged about this case ever day.

3)Why would counting days make me happy?
It shows me though, that something is very wrong.
Maybe it's not even just a shoe print, maybe a handprint, a fingerprint,
maybe Michelle injured the killer and their blood was found too.

In a struggle between 2 people that lasts up to 15 minutes, both parties should have suffered injuries.

Michelle died from her injuries, so how bad was the killer hurt?
(If they were hurt.)
JMO
Kat

[Stellagant]

It is not a game when someone is brutally murdered.
It is not a game to let a killer(s) walk free.
The fact remains that too much time has been taken in solving the case.
Even 1 day would have been too long.
Not 825 days later.

825 days to collect evidence,have it sent and tested to a lab, interview people, check alibi, issue search warrants, etc.
But, if you think the case is progressing normally, check out
the Anthony case, everyday there is new discovery !!
All we have had here are old search warrants that are only coming to light, because the seal on them has expired.

:shrug:

Kat

Also represents 825 days Jason hasn't been railroaded, right?

[BiggerRedDog]

1) Because the name calling they used in their post is not allowed on the Board. In order to answer the post, one would have to repeat the name calling and risk being banned themselves.
Therefore, it should just be reported, as is.
2) People are becoming discouraged about this case ever day.
3)Why would counting days make me happy?
It shows me though, that something is very wrong.
Maybe it's not even just a shoe print, maybe a handprint, a fingerprint,
maybe Michelle injured the killer and their blood was found too.
In a struggle between 2 people that lasts up to 15 minutes, both parties should have suffered injuries.
Michelle died from her injuries, so how bad was the killer hurt?
(If they were hurt.)
JMO
Kat
You reported somebody for calling an unnamed person a "hussy"? :ohmy:

[Kat4Eagles]

No kidding, last thing at night and first thing in the morning. 50 phone calls/text messages on the 2nd of November, averaging over 30 for the previous 30 days. That is obsessive. IMO


Remember one thing,Swabby, the obsessiveness must have been on both parts.

Someone was on the other end of the calls and texts, someone who had to be encouraging Jason , just as much as he was wrong, so was MM.

Why is she not blamed for her part.?
She not only knew Jason was married, he was married to her friend!!
So, her friend gets murdered, she then repairs her marriage, has a baby, and lives happily ever.
Meanwhile Michelle is dead, and I hope never knew of the betrayal.
But, it was both of them expressing their "feelings" in the emails we read.
You can't argue that!!

Kat

[jerzeegirl]

1)

2) People are becoming discouraged about this case ever day.



JMO
Kat


Im glad that's Just your opinion because i think alot of people following this case were more discouraged in the past than they are now. I believe alot of people are becoming more optimistic in the last few months that maybe there will be an arrest in this case and the fishers and cassidy and jasons family can start going on with their lives.

[jerzeegirl]

I think BRD is talking about Post #488.
Me, I am talking about the case.
:)
Kat

oh but you werent, you were talking about my post.

[Kat4Eagles]

Also represents 825 days Jason hasn't been railroaded, right?

I want whoever killed Michelle arrested, but with each passing day, and the release of s/w's, nothing ever happens.
So, when I ask why, I get answers about ducks.
:shrug:
Kat

[jerzeegirl]

Remember one thing,Swabby, the obsessiveness must have been on both parts.

Someone was on the other end of the calls and texts, someone who had to be encouraging Jason , just as much as he was wrong, so was MM.

Why is she not blamed for her part.?
She not only knew Jason was married, he was married to her friend!!
So, her friend gets murdered, she then repairs her marriage, has a baby, and lives happily ever.
Meanwhile Michelle is dead, and I hope never knew of the betrayal.
But, it was both of them expressing their "feelings" in the emails we read.
You can't argue that!!

Kat



MM is just as much at fault for the affair, but she didnt kill her husband, nor did she kill michelle, so shes just a tad better than jason in my eyes. JMO

[5swab5]

I agree. The sheer amount of communication between him and MM is staggering. MO Jason will eventually be arrested and if that happens, and MM testifies, it'll be interesting to hear what she says. It'll be curious to see what else LE hasnt revealed yet, Im certain they have more info. Just a matter of time, they're dotting their i's and crossing their t's.
JMO/IMO

It will be interesting to find out how many times he "talked" to his pregnant wife on the 2nd. MOO

[jerzeegirl]

has anyone ever found out where he was the weekend prior to him killing her?

[Kat4Eagles]

MM is just as much at fault for the affair, but she didnt kill her husband, nor did she kill michelle, so shes just a tad better than jason in my eyes. JMO


But , if you think Jason killed Michelle, would that make MM the motive?
Trading in one Michelle for another?

Kat

[jerzeegirl]

I want whoever killed Michelle arrested, but with each passing day, and the release of s/w's, nothing ever happens.
So, when I ask why, I get answers about ducks.
:shrug:
Kat


guess youve never heard of the saying "putting ducks in a row", you can google it, its out there.

[5swab5]

Then you are saying Michelle was murdered on Nov 2nd, cause there are only 30 days in Nov.??

Nov 2-Nov 30= 28 days, right?

I am glad I have you counting too, though!!

Kat

Good Grief.

Jason was not arrested on the 3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th,10th,11th,12th,13th,14 th,15th,16th,17th,18th,19th,20th,21st,22nd,23rd,24 th,25th,26th,27th,28th,29th,30th of November.

Those = 28 days.

I honestly can't figure out why you are having so much trouble with this. Is your abacus rusty? MOO

[jerzeegirl]

But , if you think Jason killed Michelle, would that make MM the motive?
Trading in one Michelle for another?

Kat


i have no clue what his motive was. I cannot put my mind inside of a killers mind. It just doesnt work for me. Nothing explained would make sense in my eyes for taking another persons life. Unless of course in self defense.

[Stellagant]

has anyone ever found out where he was the weekend prior to him killing her?

I guess I missed LE asking that question.

[BiggerRedDog]

Kat, your posts keep disappearing on me. I was trying to answer your "Huh" but it's gone. :confused:
I was expressing surprise that anybody would bother reporting the use of the word "hussy", directed at an unnamed person. It doesn't really matter anyway. Bye...

[Kat4Eagles]

It will be interesting to find out how many times he "talked" to his pregnant wife on the 2nd. MOO


On the 2nd, Jason was home, before leaving on his trip.
He was there when the GA friend was, he supposedly
called Michelle from the road while they were watching the show, and
then called her back later.

Wow, that just reminded me!!
You remember posts where people said he never left Raleigh, that he waited for the GA friend to leave, and then killed Michelle.

Looks like the video at Hampton Inn and the timestamp blows that theory out of the water.

Wow.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Good Grief.

Jason was not arrested on the 3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th,10th,11th,12th,13th,14 th,15th,16th,17th,18th,19th,20th,21st,22nd,23rd,24 th,25th,26th,27th,28th,29th,30th of November.

Those = 28 days.

I honestly can't figure out why you are having so much trouble with this. Is your abacus rusty? MOO

Are you going to make me look that up?
:lol:

Kat

[jerzeegirl]

On the 2nd, Jason was home, before leaving on his trip.
He was there when the GA friend was, he supposedly
called Michelle from the road while they were watching the show, and
then called her back later.

Wow, that just reminded me!!
You remember posts where people said he never left Raleigh, that he waited for the GA friend to leave, and then killed Michelle.

Looks like the video at Hampton Inn and the timestamp blows that theory out of the water.

Wow.

Kat

could you post a link to where it shows that michelle called him or he called her that night? Was that in the same sw with the calls to his mom and MM?

[5swab5]

Remember one thing,Swabby, the obsessiveness must have been on both parts.

Someone was on the other end of the calls and texts, someone who had to be encouraging Jason , just as much as he was wrong, so was MM.

Why is she not blamed for her part.?
She not only knew Jason was married, he was married to her friend!!
So, her friend gets murdered, she then repairs her marriage, has a baby, and lives happily ever.
Meanwhile Michelle is dead, and I hope never knew of the betrayal.
But, it was both of them expressing their "feelings" in the emails we read.
You can't argue that!!

Kat

MMoney does not get a pass from me. She is every bit as guilty of tossing her marriage vows aside as Jason. MOO

[jerzeegirl]

MMoney does not get a pass from me. She is every bit as guilty of tossing her marriage vows aside as Jason. MOO



and omg especially your best friend. Disgusting bleh!

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Fishers started the fight and chose to end it before the Clerk's deadline for Jason to respond and before the Judge could hold a hearing. This makes Jason look bad? LOL.

The agreement can be changed when there are new circumstances. The DA phoning Jason's attorney to inform them Meredith is a suspect would certainly be a change in circumstances, imo.

It was kinda like a boxing match. The Fishers got a technical knockout in the first round so they didn’t need to fight the next 11 rounds. IMHO

[5swab5]

It was kinda like a boxing match. The Fishers got a technical knockout in the first round so they didn’t need to fight the next 11 rounds. IMHO

I am willing to bet that the Fishers got a WHOLE lot more time with Cassidy via the Custody Consent Order, than ANY judge would have EVER given them. Gotta know when to fold 'em. MOO

[alterEgo©]

The TIME(s) he phoned his girlfriend instead of his wife
Yeah, like how he called MM late at night, the night OF Michelle's murder... and how he called MM the first thing the very next morning/even day-of the murder.

snip
JMO/IMO

The call was at 07:49 which puts him approx 30 minutes from the Hotel and hardly the 'first thing the very next morning'.

[awareness]

Fishers started the fight and chose to end it before the Clerk's deadline for Jason to respond and before the Judge could hold a hearing. This makes Jason look bad? LOL.

The agreement can be changed when there are new circumstances. The DA phoning Jason's attorney to inform them Meredith is a suspect would certainly be a change in circumstances, imo.

So when any parent just gives away primary physical and joint legal custody without making an effort to prevent that... that's a good parent? Because that's what happened, yet you say this makes Jason look bad with your LOL.

Of course the agreement can be changed when there are new circumstances. Like if/when LE arrests Jason, they'll be able to go after sole custody without Jason having the option of giving Cassidy to one of the Youngs.

JMO/IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I am willing to bet that the Fishers got a WHOLE lot more time with Cassidy via the Custody Consent Order, than ANY judge would have EVER given them. Gotta know when to fold 'em. MOO

I agree with you. But it was a trade off. Jason gave away something very precious in exchange for his silence. That say a great deal about how much talking will hurt him......IMHO.

[awareness]

The call was at 07:49 which puts him approx 30 minutes from the Hotel and hardly the 'first thing the very next morning'.

Was it not the first recorded cell call of the day? or perhaps he texted her first. I wonder when he started calling Pat those what, 28 times? IIRC a cell call to MM was the last recorded one of the prior evening? I doubt Jason slept at all, the whole night, so "first thing in the morning" is probably a stretch.

JMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Was it not the first recorded cell call of the day? or perhaps he texted her first. I wonder when he started calling Pat those what, 28 times? IIRC a cell call to MM was the last recorded one of the prior evening? I doubt Jason slept at all, the whole night, so "first thing in the morning" is probably a stretch.

JMO

Strictly speaking, if he is the killer, he was driving to Raleigh to kill his wife “first thing in the morning”. (IMOOC)

[Kat4Eagles]

MMoney does not get a pass from me. She is every bit as guilty of tossing her marriage vows aside as Jason. MOO

So, see this is exactly the whole problem with this murder being pre~med and/or trying to make MM the motive.

This master plan , as it has been called, to insure your wife for a million dollars, cheat on her with her friend, and then kill her?

How is that a plan?

How about another plan?
Like having your child out of the home that nite for one thing ?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

Was it not the first recorded cell call of the day? or perhaps he texted her first. I wonder when he started calling Pat those what, 28 times? IIRC a cell call to MM was the last recorded one of the prior evening? I doubt Jason slept at all, the whole night, so "first thing in the morning" is probably a stretch.

JMOYes, the first call made that morning on that phone. I wonder if there were calls on the other cell phone.

Whether Jason was up all night or not, 'first thing in the morning' is a stretch.

[alterEgo©]

I agree with you. But it was a trade off. Jason gave away something very precious in exchange for his silence. That say a great deal about how much talking will hurt him......IMHO.
Or his risk of losing legal custody was greater.

[alterEgo©]

So, see this is exactly the whole problem with this murder being pre~med and/or trying to make MM the motive.

This master plan , as it has been called, to insure your wife for a million dollars, cheat on her with her friend, and then kill her?

How is that a plan?

How about another plan?
Like having your child out of the home that nite for one thing ?

Kat
Don't forget 'cheating on your girlfriend'. That's part of the master plan, too.

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes, the first call made that morning on that phone. I wonder if there were calls on the other cell phone.

Whether Jason was up all night or not, 'first thing in the morning' is a stretch.


If that phonecall had been made at any earlier time and anywhere east of the hotel, then I could see cause for suspicion.

But, it sounds to me, Jason left the Hampton around 7am, stopped for coffee, maybe, and the call would put him exactly in Wytheville at this time.

Maybe he had a 6-7am wake up call that can be verified.
Sometimes wake~up calls are automated, so if someone
did not answer, that could say they were in the shower.

Shades of OJ and the limo driver.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Don't forget 'cheating on your girlfriend'. That's part of the master plan, too.


No offense, but this master plan doesn't work for me.

And, no wonder people are losing interest.

It's almost like, wow, if they haven't got him by now, they never will.

AE........do you know if there are anymore s/w's or is this the extent of them?
I was gone for awhile, sorry!!
:)
Kat

[alterEgo©]

I've been wondering about SWs for cell phone tower triangulation. Or cell phone records. Or home phone records (assuming they had a hard line).

But those may fall under an Order as Card suggested, so there may not be a warrant.

[5swab5]

So, see this is exactly the whole problem with this murder being pre~med and/or trying to make MM the motive.
This master plan , as it has been called, to insure your wife for a million dollars, cheat on her with her friend, and then kill her?
How is that a plan?
How about another plan?
Like having your child out of the home that nite for one thing ?

Kat

I think he wanted his freedom, he didn't want to be married any more, probably never wanted to be. He didn't just want MM, he wanted which ever gal whenever, he didn't want to be tied down. I believe he had been stewing about this for some time. I also believe that Michelle found out about the affairs and gave him his walking papers.

Jason didn't want to lose half of what he had, didn't want to pay alimony and didn't want to pay child support for two kids for the next 16-18 years. The LI policy was a bonus and would guarantee a new beginning.

Problem is, no one bought his story and we are where we are today.

Jason is back in his childhood bedroom living off of mom and dad, he has essentially lost Cassidy, he has few prospects for employment, he is going to lose not only a lot of what little he does have, but future earning potential as well.

The irony is, he is much worse off today than he would have been, had he just divorced Michelle. MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

I've been wondering about SWs for cell phone tower triangulation. Or cell phone records. Or home phone records (assuming they had a hard line).

But those may fall under an Order as Card suggested, so there may not be a warrant.

Are those public records ?
Can they be released?
You are sooooooooo smart!!
:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I think he wanted his freedom, he didn't want to be married any more, probably never wanted to be. He didn't just want MM, he wanted which ever gal whenever, he didn't want to be tied down. I believe he had been stewing about this for some time. I also believe that Michelle found out about the affairs and gave him his walking papers.

Jason didn't want to lose half of what he had, didn't want to pay alimony and didn't want to pay child support for two kids for the next 16-18 years. The LI policy was a bonus and would guarantee a new beginning.

Problem is, no one bought his story and we are where we are today.

Jason is back in his childhood bedroom living off of mom and dad, he has essentially lost Cassidy, he has few prospects for employment, he is going to lose not only a lot of what little he does have, but future earning potential as well.

The irony is, he is much worse off today than he would have been, had he just divorced Michelle.


But, what if it was the opposite?
What if it was Michelle wanting to hold onto the marriage, and trying to work things out?
What if Jason wanted out and Michelle refused?
Then Jason falls for MM, which really knocks the ball out of the park.

Anyone seen Card, btw? QQ

Kat

[awareness]

So, see this is exactly the whole problem with this murder being pre~med and/or trying to make MM the motive.

This master plan , as it has been called, to insure your wife for a million dollars, cheat on her with her friend, and then kill her?

How is that a plan?

How about another plan?
Like having your child out of the home that nite for one thing ?

Kat

MO that Jason had been unfaithful with at least 1 other person than MM during the course of their marriage, maybe more. No link, not claiming this as "fact" but would not be surprised if we hear about at least one other woman when more SW's get released.

You want to reference OJ, well MO is he killed Nichole & Ron while the kids were asleep in their beds in the townhome.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

But, what if it was the opposite?
What if it was Michelle wanting to hold onto the marriage, and trying to work things out?
What if Jason wanted out and Michelle refused?
Then Jason falls for MM, which really knocks the ball out of the park.

Anyone seen Card, btw? QQ

Kat

Isnt N.C. a no fault divorce state (and was it at the time of the murder)? Most are these days I think? If it is a no fault state -- if Michelle said no to a divorce and Jason wanted one, he could have done so with or without her consent.

JMO/IMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I've been wondering about SWs for cell phone tower triangulation. Or cell phone records. Or home phone records (assuming they had a hard line).

But those may fall under an Order as Card suggested, so there may not be a warrant.

The search warrants are being made public. How about court orders? Do we know if they have obtained any? Will they be made public? If not, there could be a lot more searching of e-mail accounts, bank records, phone records, etc. than we know of. Right?

[awareness]

No offense, but this master plan doesn't work for me.

And, no wonder people are losing interest.

It's almost like, wow, if they haven't got him by now, they never will.

AE........do you know if there are anymore s/w's or is this the extent of them?
I was gone for awhile, sorry!!
:)
Kat

Im personally not of the opinion people are "losing interest". I think there's more interest now that several issues have been resolved as of late & additional SW's released (civil suit, custody). I think its just a matter of time before they arrest him.

JMO/IMO

[awareness]

The search warrants are being made public. How about court orders? Do we know if they have obtained any? Will they be made public? If not, there could be a lot more searching of e-mail accounts, bank records, phone records, etc. than we know of. Right?

The therapists notes, if any, have yet to be revealed I think?

JMO/IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

MO that Jason had been unfaithful with at least 1 other person than MM during the course of their marriage, maybe more. No link, not claiming this as "fact" but would not be surprised if we hear about at least one other woman when more SW's get released.

You want to reference OJ, well MO is he killed Nichole & Ron while the kids were asleep in their beds in the townhome.

JMO/IMO


OJ did not plan to kill Nicole and Ron, that was a pure rage, heat of the moment, killing.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Im personally not of the opinion people are "losing interest". I think there's more interest now that several issues have been resolved as of late & additional SW's released (civil suit, custody). I think its just a matter of time before they arrest him.

JMO/IMO


Not according to the traffic on this Board, then.
Lots of posters have left to follow other cases.

I don't think it is a matter if time before they arrest anyone, at this rate.

JMO
Kat