2/8

[bkwits]

Starting a new thread. Come on over :seeya:



:seeya:

[wolfi_2]

Hi, any news today?

[Cherishlove]

I'm just going to keep praying for this little boy and his Mother, hope he is exonerated soon so they can up and move away and start a life together and start healing, what was on TV the other night is stuff that is not proven to be fact we have to realize this, at this point anyone can say anything. I came across another Petition we could sign regarding children being charged as adults you might want to take a look and sign it.

http://www.christopherpittman.info/

And also remember if you have not already please sign the Petition for this little boys release.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

I'm not sure if Eryn reads this post but if so, just please remain strong, many of us are praying for you and your son.

[Jacobtk]

Again, I think the release of the reports was a poorly played gamble. I cannot imagine that this has done to Eryn, the Romans or the Romeros. I hope that Carlyon did not just release a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, it looks like that may be the case. I honestly would like to know when all the reports came in. If they came in after the video was released or weeks later, they honestly cannot be trusted. People may have made these claims through manipulation from the police (as they did with the boy) or in order to back the negative opinion they have formed of the boy due to the news coverage.

[wolfi_2]

I'm just going to keep praying for this little boy and his Mother, hope he is exonerated soon so they can up and move away and start a life together and start healing, what was on TV the other night is stuff that is not proven to be fact we have to realize this, at this point anyone can say anything. I came across another Petition we could sign regarding children being charged as adults you might want to take a look and sign it.

http://www.christopherpittman.info/

And also remember if you have not already please sign the Petition for this little boys release.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

I'm not sure if Eryn reads this post but if so, just please remain strong, many of us are praying for you and your son.

I think, that is the same what the DA like to do in this case! -Just to get justice, put a young live into the waste box.

[Aradia5]

Again, I think the release of the reports was a poorly played gamble. I cannot imagine that this has done to Eryn, the Romans or the Romeros. I hope that Carlyon did not just release a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, it looks like that may be the case. I honestly would like to know when all the reports came in. If they came in after the video was released or weeks later, they honestly cannot be trusted. People may have made these claims through manipulation from the police (as they did with the boy) or in order to back the negative opinion they have formed of the boy due to the news coverage.
ITA and
I'd love to see the dates on the statements also.

[wolfi_2]

ITA and
I'd love to see the dates on the statements also.


That’s indeed from interest, if gotten after the video was released in TV, the public opinion was affected.

[GentleBreeze]

That’s indeed from interest, if gotten after the video was released in TV, the public opinion was affected.

But haven't most been saying that the interview shows the boy did not commit the crimes?

Since that was done before Judge Roca put in place the gag order, the investigation and interviews had to be after then and on going, just like in any other investigation.

I highly doubt the 33 witness statements or police reports were based on anything, other than what the people who were interviewed told them. I don't think anyone was swayed one way or the other and just truthfully told what they knew, as they should have, when asked.

imoo

[rusure?]

[QUOTE]
I have decided that none of this information is worthwhile. Even if all true, we do not know a lot of information.

If there was blood on the underwear, where was it located? Was it in the crotch area on the inside, or was it splattered on the outside? Did it appear to be blood from a sexual assault or a severe beating? Whose blood was it?

What was the porno on Tim's phone? I am certain it was not kiddie porn or they would have said that. Was it pics of girls he knew or models? Was it violent in context?

Was the pic of the kid with the black eye CR? Was he smiling in the photo? I could actually see my husband taking a pic of my son with a black eye because he would think it would be cute, especially if he got it doing something stupid or it was a sports war wound or something. Or perhaps he just so happened to have a black eye from something else and he took the picture just to take the picture. We have no idea what context the picture was in.

The girls saying Tim assaulted him? I have no idea. I want to know more. Does that mean he actually raped them, or did he make unwanted advances or grab their but or something? We really do not know. Were these incidents reported to the police?

My 8 year old has said "I am going to kill you dad" on several occassions out of anger. So what??? My kids have said they hated me, they wanted new parents, etc... Means nothing to me. But we should also remember he said it in front of a lot of people. Watch any murder mystery and you will find that the person who said they wanted to kill the victim is NEVER the murderer!! While that is silly to say, it comes from the truth. The statement really doesn't mean anything unless backed up by physical evidence.

Manipulative because he got the other kids to do things he wanted? If this kid wasn't accused of something, I would expect that statement to mean that the child would make a good leader some day. He was popular and the other kids looked up to him and wanted to be like him. It does NOT tell me the kid is a murderer.

Vinnie slapping the child: did he give the boy a full on SMACK across the face? Or what it a tap to get his attention? While probably wrong, my husband will give both of my boys a smack upside the head for some things, especially gross disrespect. It is never to actually hurt them, but more to get their attention and tell them to wake up! And he never does it really hard or anything.

I too have felt for a long tiime that the belt on the stairs concerned me and it was disregarded at the time, as many people said it looked like a child's belt. While my kids go to Catholic school and wear a belt every day, I doubt this kid wore a leather belt with his jeans to school. I made me think that Vinnie was running up the stairs chasing the boy with the belt and perhaps it was self defense.

I would like to see the cell phone records from Tim. Did he call Tanya as soon as they pulled up to the house? Or was he out in the car for a while, perhaps on the phone with other people. Was there more time in that house with Vinnie and CR that something might have happened? Perhaps a confrontation of some sort and a threat of a beating with a belt?

There are way too many unanswered questions and I am very angry that this information has been leaked without ANY other evidence to back it up. It is imflamatory to the boy as well as the victims and their families and shows me this DA is a scumbag, IMO.

I will continue to pray for this boy. He is innocent.

Excellent post.

I rechecked VR's autopsy and he had a belt on. So, the belt on the stairs apparently is not his for the day of the shootings. Perhaps it was used the night before by Tiffany. I still don't understand why VR would tell Tiffany to spank the boy. Why didn't she tell him to do it himself? And over forgetting a paper?

[rusure?]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzmarymac
Eryn's mood on her myspace has changed to "crushed." I hope these lowlifes in SJ's are happy now. How dare them do this to this little boy and his mother. I am sick sick SICK about this and they are once again showing their true colors. (ie releasing the video and the 1000 spankings garbage!)

Please send some words of encouragement to Eryn. I think she is going to need them now. This poor mother is dealing with all of this and the press is allowed to say whatever they want about her little boy, but she is "gagged" and can say nothing in his defense.

Perhaps she had no idea what was happening to her boy in the house. That would be very crushing indeed to have to hear it on the news like that. Why aren't the forensic results being on the news? Because they don't point to the boy?

[petessake]

not only do i feel bad for the little boy and his mother. with all this crap coming out i also feel bad for the romans girls even though older than the little boy it has got to be hard to digest! eryn just needs to remain strong for herself and her son and know she has got so much support behind her no matter what.

[Jacobtk]

But haven't most been saying that the interview shows the boy did not commit the crimes?

That does not mean people will not be swayed by it. You were. Linda was, and many others who have viewed the video take the confession to be true. As long as a lie sounds believable and it plays on people's perceptions, it will be believed.

Since that was done before Judge Roca put in place the gag order, the investigation and interviews had to be after then and on going, just like in any other investigation.

I highly doubt the 33 witness statements or police reports were based on anything, other than what the people who were interviewed told them. I don't think anyone was swayed one way or the other and just truthfully told what they knew, as they should have, when asked.

It is not uncommon for witnesses to try to please police by saying they heard or saw something. When it involves a high profile case, it is even more likely that people will try to come up with something (or withhold something) based on their opinion of the situation. If the interviews were conducted after the video was released and after the claims about 1000 spankings were released and perhaps even after the incomplete ballistics report was released, the veracity of those statements ought to be questioned. The longer the time period between the boy's arrest and when the statements were gotten, the more questionable the truthful of those statements are because it begs the question of why those people did not just come forward on their own.

[Crispy]

I would like to read the statements for myself. If the people that heard the shots also saw the boy in the yard after that, then the chances are that they should have seen TR dead or dying on the porch. Why was this never mentioned in the hearings or in the reports? How long after was the interview/statement taken? I'm not usually this skeptical of LE, but having seen some of their ineptness I just can't bring myself to trust them.

As far as the underwear with blood on them, I just don't know. Where was the blood on them? Was it smeared, transfer, spatter? Did they do any DNA testing on it? They just gave us these little snippets and it's hard to make a decision about it without knowing the full information. The same with the pics on VR's phone and the alleged sexual assault by TR. When was it? Where was it? I would hate to draw a conclusion on those things without knowing. Of course it's jmo.

[GentleBreeze]

That does not mean people will not be swayed by it. You were. Linda was, and many others who have viewed the video take the confession to be true. As long as a lie sounds believable and it plays on people's perceptions, it will be believed.



It is not uncommon for witnesses to try to please police by saying they heard or saw something. When it involves a high profile case, it is even more likely that people will try to come up with something (or withhold something) based on their opinion of the situation. If the interviews were conducted after the video was released and after the claims about 1000 spankings were released and perhaps even after the incomplete ballistics report was released, the veracity of those statements ought to be questioned. The longer the time period between the boy's arrest and when the statements were gotten, the more questionable the truthful of those statements are because it begs the question of why those people did not just come forward on their own.

I think you are way too cynical. There is nothing supporting that these witnesses that knew the victims and defendant told falsehoods simply because the case when it began was high profile or for any other reason for that matter.

I say let them come forth and testify under oath before insinuating that they are liars even before they get a chance to do so.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

I would like to read the statements for myself. If the people that heard the shots also saw the boy in the yard after that, then the chances are that they should have seen TR dead or dying on the porch. Why was this never mentioned in the hearings or in the reports? How long after was the interview/statement taken? I'm not usually this skeptical of LE, but having seen some of their ineptness I just can't bring myself to trust them.

As far as the underwear with blood on them, I just don't know. Where was the blood on them? Was it smeared, transfer, spatter? Did they do any DNA testing on it? They just gave us these little snippets and it's hard to make a decision about it without knowing the full information. The same with the pics on VR's phone and the alleged sexual assault by TR. When was it? Where was it? I would hate to draw a conclusion on those things without knowing. Of course it's jmo.

It is common for the media only to talk about parts of the information they have been given. This is the investigation that was done by the AZ. DPS not SJPD. Their letterhead can be seen at the top of the stack on the media video and we know that they turned over about 400 pages to the DA then he gave them to the defense.

imo

[Jacobtk]

I think you are way too cynical. There is nothing supporting that these witnesses that knew the victims and defendant told falsehoods simply because the case when it began was high profile or for any other reason for that matter.

At the moment we have no idea when these reports were filed. If they were filed three months ago, then several officers would have perjured themselves during the pre-adjudication hearing and the sworn interviews with Brewer because information in these reports contradict what was initially released.

It is not cynicism to question whether the statements given are true if the reports occurred after the case was highly publicized. It is logical, reasonable and warranted to ask why these people never came forward on their own, never reported the alleged threats the boy made or why they changed their statements.

I would say (and have said in other cases) the same thing if the defense had released information initially stating one thing and then, months later, released information suggesting the opposite.

I say let them come forth and testify under oath before insinuating that they are liars even before they get a chance to do so.

You are not applying the same scrutiny to the boy. You are not waiting for him to have a chance to come forth and testify under oath before insinuating that he lied in the interrogation and in his initial statement and killed two men out of anger or because of a mental issue. It is unfair to request others to be objective when one relies solely on subjectivity.

It is common for the media only to talk about parts of the information they have been given.

That makes the release all the more questionable and odd because it is possible that the DA released heavily redacted reports or only the reports that incriminate the boy. It is not illegal for the state to do that, but it demonstrates that they could be withholding information that points away from the boy and there is nothing the boy's attorneys can do about that because of the gag order.

[muska]

That does not mean people will not be swayed by it. You were. Linda was, and many others who have viewed the video take the confession to be true. As long as a lie sounds believable and it plays on people's perceptions, it will be believed.



It is not uncommon for witnesses to try to please police by saying they heard or saw something. When it involves a high profile case, it is even more likely that people will try to come up with something (or withhold something) based on their opinion of the situation. If the interviews were conducted after the video was released and after the claims about 1000 spankings were released and perhaps even after the incomplete ballistics report was released, the veracity of those statements ought to be questioned. The longer the time period between the boy's arrest and when the statements were gotten, the more questionable the truthful of those statements are because it begs the question of why those people did not just come forward on their own.

I also think that by announcing that they had the shooter so quickly, the police may have discouraged anyone with possible information about the crime from coming forward. For instance, if you were just a little suspicious about a neighbor or friend, I think you would be less likely to come forward if you were comfortable that the police already had the right person under arrest. Why rock the boat if there is no reason? And the police made it seem they were pretty positive.

[GentleBreeze]

At the moment we have no idea when these reports were filed. If they were filed three months ago, then several officers would have perjured themselves during the pre-adjudication hearing and the sworn interviews with Brewer because information in these reports contradict what was initially released.

It is not cynicism to question whether the statements given are true if the reports occurred after the case was highly publicized. It is logical, reasonable and warranted to ask why these people never came forward on their own, never reported the alleged threats the boy made or why they changed their statements.

I would say (and have said in other cases) the same thing if the defense had released information initially stating one thing and then, months later, released information suggesting the opposite.



You are not applying the same scrutiny to the boy. You are not waiting for him to have a chance to come forth and testify under oath before insinuating that he lied in the interrogation and in his initial statement and killed two men out of anger or because of a mental issue. It is unfair to request others to be objective when one relies solely on subjectivity.



That makes the release all the more questionable and odd because it is possible that the DA released heavily redacted reports or only the reports that incriminate the boy. It is not illegal for the state to do that, but it demonstrates that they could be withholding information that points away from the boy and there is nothing the boy's attorneys can do about that because of the gag order.

So it is unreasonable to believe that all of these people and they are lying when they have told things that tend to crush this boy but it is reasonable to believe the ones who said they were sexually assaulted by Tim and said that Vincent slapped the child when he told him to his face he was going to kill him and had a unidentified child on his cell phone with a black eye? If the DA was going to redact he certainly would these imo because they do not put the boy in a bad light but the victims.

Like I said, imo you are way too cynical. I highly doubt all 33 witness are telling any falsehoods. We do not know if they came forward on their own, they may have.

I think this investigation was done by DPS not SJPD. They would not send their reports of witnesses statements until they were through with the entire investigation. When they were through I think they sent the entire 400 pages of what was uncovered and whom was talked with and then when the DA received it around the end of January he turned it over to the defense.

If you want to question the release then perhaps you should question why Judge Roca did not seal or have it suppressed.

imoo

[Jacobtk]

So it is unreasonable to believe that all of these people and they are lying when they have told things that tend to crush this boy but it is reasonable to believe the ones who said they were sexually assaulted by Tim and said that Vincent slapped the child when he told him to his face he was going to kill him and had a unidentified child on his cell phone with a black eye? If the DA was going to redact he certainly would these imo because they do not put the boy in a bad light but the victims.

I do not think Carlyon cares about the victims at all. I think he is just trying to win the case and is doing whatever he can to try to make himself look good. As for the other statements, to be honest, I do not believe them either. It makes little sense for a rape victim to come forward after Romans is dead. It makes no sense that Romero would slap his son in full view of his entire family, but apparently only one person came forward. The photo on the cell seems less suspicious as I am not inclined to believe the police would go so far as to put evidence on either man's phones. However, in terms of plausibility, it is more likely that Romero physically abused his son than it is that the boy plotted to kill his father for months.

Like I said, imo you are way too cynical. I highly doubt all 33 witness are telling any falsehoods. We do not know if they came forward on their own, they may have.

What was mentioned in the news reports were not the statements of all 33 witnesses, only a handful of incriminating statements. We do not know what is in the other 29 reports that were not mentioned. As for cycnism, it works both ways. In order to believe the incriminating statements one must believe that all the people who spoke kindly about the boy are telling falsehoods. They must all be lying or completely blind to the boy's real behavior. It is highly doubtful that none of those people would notice the boy's behavior.

If you want to question the release then perhaps you should question why Judge Roca did not seal or have it suppressed.

The issue of the veracity of witness statements are what juries and bench trial judges are for. They decide whether they believe the testimony or not, so unless a person perjures himself or Carlyon decides not to call certain witnesses, the statements will come in. As for sealing the reports, Roca has not sealed the other police reports. It makes no sense for him to seal these, regardless of how they tarnish the character of the victims or the boy. The poor judgment call here lies solely with the DA and Carlyon.

[IAMME]

I do not think Carlyon cares about the victims at all. I think he is just trying to win the case and is doing whatever he can to try to make himself look good. As for the other statements, to be honest, I do not believe them either. It makes little sense for a rape victim to come forward after Romans is dead. It makes no sense that Romero would slap his son in full view of his entire family, but apparently only one person came forward. The photo on the cell seems less suspicious as I am not inclined to believe the police would go so far as to put evidence on either man's phones. However, in terms of plausibility, it is more likely that Romero physically abused his son than it is that the boy plotted to kill his father for months.



What was mentioned in the news reports were not the statements of all 33 witnesses, only a handful of incriminating statements. We do not know what is in the other 29 reports that were not mentioned. As for cycnism, it works both ways. In order to believe the incriminating statements one must believe that all the people who spoke kindly about the boy are telling falsehoods. They must all be lying or completely blind to the boy's real behavior. It is highly doubtful that none of those people would notice the boy's behavior.



The issue of the veracity of witness statements are what juries and bench trial judges are for. They decide whether they believe the testimony or not, so unless a person perjures himself or Carlyon decides not to call certain witnesses, the statements will come in. As for sealing the reports, Roca has not sealed the other police reports. It makes no sense for him to seal these, regardless of how they tarnish the character of the victims or the boy. The poor judgment call here lies solely with the DA and Carlyon.

Very good post!

[GentleBreeze]

The issue of the veracity of witness statements are what juries and bench trial judges are for. They decide whether they believe the testimony or not, so unless a person perjures himself or Carlyon decides not to call certain witnesses, the statements will come in. As for sealing the reports, Roca has not sealed the other police reports. It makes no sense for him to seal these, regardless of how they tarnish the character of the victims or the boy. The poor judgment call here lies solely with the DA and Carlyon.

Oh I think he does care. No DA would go through this that did not care. Even if he were successful in proving the boy's guilt there would still be a backlash by some.

Exactly and since Judge Roca is the presiding Judge in this case it is up to him to weigh their credibility and what weight to give it. I see no reason that he would not do as he knows he is required to do. I find him very capable.

You are right he hasn't sealed other discovery that we know of at this time. If he thought this was some untoward strategy, he at any time could step up and stop it and seal the discovery. He did not so imo these documents and transcripts are just an ordinary part of any investigation that is given to the media once discovery has been turned over. This wasn't a surprise. He told both the Judge and the defense that he was pushing for all evidence to be in by the end of January.

I have no reason or basis to support that any of these witnesses are lying. Not the ones that said hurtful things concerning the boy or detrimental things about the victims or those who may have made glowing remarks about both the victims and the boy.

imo

[rusure?]

I went back to listen to the videos from yesterday.

1. All those documents did not come solely from DPS. It appeared to be a mixture from DPS and the SJPD.

2. The underware were found 5 days after the murders.

3. The police found the underware with blood on them later in the trash.

4. The drowning of the little sister was reported by a family friend. We do not know what family friend.

5. azcentral video said there were numerous statements that described the boy as a normal 8 year old boy.

6. the slap to the boy was after he said to his dad he was going to kill him during a game of horseshoes at a family reunion. We do not know what context that statement was made.

7. the witness who said the boy said he was going to shoot his dad. Again, we do not know the context that was made.

8. we do not know in what context pics were on either victims phones.

9. TR was already reported to have some negatives in his character. The porn on his phone and the sexual assualt are added negatives. VR had more positive statements come out about him prior to this news. TR was, imo, the target.

I believe there have been more positive statements concerning the boy than negative initially. Now we have a few negative. The negative are just now being reported? Why? Makes me suspicious.

[GentleBreeze]

I went back to listen to the videos from yesterday.

1. All those documents did not come solely from DPS. It appeared to be a mixture from DPS and the SJPD.

2. The underware were found 5 days after the murders.

3. The police found the underware with blood on them later in the trash.

4. The drowning of the little sister was reported by a family friend. We do not know what family friend.

5. azcentral video said there were numerous statements that described the boy as a normal 8 year old boy.

6. the slap to the boy was after he said to his dad he was going to kill him during a game of horseshoes at a family reunion. We do not know what context that statement was made.

7. the witness who said the boy said he was going to shoot his dad. Again, we do not know the context that was made.

8. we do not know in what context pics were on either victims phones.

9. TR was already reported to have some negatives in his character. The porn on his phone and the sexual assualt are added negatives. VR had more positive statements come out about him prior to this news. TR was, imo, the target.

I believe there have been more positive statements concerning the boy than negative initially. Now we have a few negative. The negative are just now being reported? Why? Makes me suspicious.

But we do know what happened just three weeks after he threatened and told others he was going to kill his father.

His father was dead........

Where did it say these witness were interviewed by SJPD and not the DPS investigators?

The family friend had to be someone in Eryn's environment and not connected to the Romero family at all imo.

imoo

[Cherishlove]

But we do know what happened just three weeks after he threatened and told others he was going to kill his father.

His father was dead........

Where did it say these witness were interviewed by SJPD and not the DPS investigators?

The family friend had to be someone in Eryn's environment and not connected to the Romero family at all imo.

imooThere are 2 sides to every story, I'd like to see these people cross examined, who made these comments. We don't know exactly what was said or how it was said or if they are even true. The family friend very well misinterpreted something.

[mrrogers]

ITA and
I'd love to see the dates on the statements also.

how does december thats it :w00t::w00t:

[Crispy]

It is common for the media only to talk about parts of the information they have been given. This is the investigation that was done by the AZ. DPS not SJPD. Their letterhead can be seen at the top of the stack on the media video and we know that they turned over about 400 pages to the DA then he gave them to the defense.

imo

Well, if they were given a stack of papers I would think that it would say in there whether or not the witness who saw the boy also saw Tim. If they have that much of his statement, it would make sense to have that part too.

Also, does it say that the sister he tried to drown was Eryn's child? He has another sister too doesn't he?

[secrets]

But we do know what happened just three weeks after he threatened and told others he was going to kill his father.

His father was dead........

Where did it say these witness were interviewed by SJPD and not the DPS investigators?

The family friend had to be someone in Eryn's environment and not connected to the Romero family at all imo.

imoo

Why on earth would that be Eryn's friend? As I understood the "statement" was regarding the other sister, from his father, not mother. I highly doubt he was introduced to his sister from Eryn, she would not bring her on her trips to AZ, especially since she had limited time with him. I wonder if that family friend was again Nicole?

[GentleBreeze]

Well, if they were given a stack of papers I would think that it would say in there whether or not the witness who saw the boy also saw Tim. If they have that much of his statement, it would make sense to have that part too.

Also, does it say that the sister he tried to drown was Eryn's child? He has another sister too doesn't he?

I think he has an older sister that lives out of state. I had forgotten about her but it doesn't seem feasible that he would try to do this to an older child than him but someone smaller and younger than him.

imo

[Jacobtk]

Oh I think he does care. No DA would go through this that did not care.

Mike Nifong pursued a clearly false rape case for a year and half. It got him re-elected as the DA, bolstered his position with the black community of that county and gave him a great deal of notoriety. Perhaps Carlyon is different, however, there are examples of prosecutors pushing cases for their own benefit. Most of those cases look like this case.

Exactly and since Judge Roca is the presiding Judge in this case it is up to him to weigh their credibility and what weight to give it. I see no reason that he would not do as he knows he is required to do. I find him very capable.

He can only do that after the trial, not before it. He cannot exclude information, not matter suspicious it is. He must allow it to be presented in court and allow the defense the chance to discredit the testimony. As for Roca stepping in, he already allowed the release of reports and documents gathered by the state. Unless it is something specifically pertaining to the boy (which would be private regardless of whether the boy was charged or not), the DA can release it. The judge only ordered that video and audio interviews be released as transcripts. Outside of that, the state can release anything it wants. That does not, however, mean the judge is pleased with the release.

As for the evidence coming in that the end of January, none of that has been released. The ballistics report, the fingerprint analysis, the DNA analysis and the competency results have yet to be released.

[rusure?]

But we do know what happened just three weeks after he threatened and told others he was going to kill his father.

His father was dead........

Yes, we know the boy's father was killed 3 weeks later. This does not prove the boy did it. The boy was also heard 3 months before the killings telling his father he was going to kill him. Why wasn't his father killed 3 weeks after that incident? We do not know the context either statement was made. Kids say they're going to shoot so and so. Do they do it? No. Playing a game of horseshoes, if an adult would have said to VR, "I'm gonna kill you", would you still think that person killed VR? We do not know the context of those statements.

Where did it say these witness were interviewed by SJPD and not the DPS investigators?
It didn't. I said that from the video, there was a mixture of documents from SJPD and DPS.

The family friend had to be someone in Eryn's environment and not connected to the Romero family at all imo.
imoo

We do not know whose environment the family friend was from. The video does not say.

Thank goodness this case does not go solely on assumptions. The public and this board use assumptions but at least all the other players do not use assumptions. IMO, the SJPD went solely on assumptions when they began their investigation, and more than likely continued to do so. We are given just enough information from the video news story to cause a lot of questions and assumptions.

[GentleBreeze]

Why on earth would that be Eryn's friend? As I understood the "statement" was regarding the other sister, from his father, not mother. I highly doubt he was introduced to his sister from Eryn, she would not bring her on her trips to AZ, especially since she had limited time with him. I wonder if that family friend was again Nicole?

It just mentioned he tried to drown his half sister.

I would think she would bring her daughter with her at times and we don't know if he ever visited her in MS. Surely she would want him to meet and know his half sister, I would think. She flew there so she could have brought her daughter with her.

But the main thing it really doesn't matter which sister he tried to drown imo.

imo

[rusure?]

I think he has an older sister that lives out of state. I had forgotten about her but it doesn't seem feasible that he would try to do this to an older child than him but someone smaller and younger than him.

imo

Why not? According to you he killed 2 grown men. They were certainly older than him.

[GentleBreeze]

Why not? According to you he killed 2 grown men. They were certainly older than him.

Because that would be hand to hand combat to physically try to drown his older sister.

Not the same requirement when having the only gun there and using it.

imo

[petessake]

to eryn and her precious child-may we discover through pain and torment, the strength to live with grace and humor. may we discover through doubt and anguish, the strength to live with dignity and holiness. may we discover through suffering and fear, the strenth to move toward healing. may it come to pass that be restored to health and to vigor. may life grant us wellness of body, spirit, and mind. and if this cannot be so, may we find in this passage moments of meaning, opportunities for love and the deep and gracious calm that comes when we allow ourselves to move on and pass this. god bless you and remain strong, don't stop believing in your child and know you have got a lot of supporters behind you :smile:no matter what!

[mrrogers]

i think rocha knows what is and what aint because the boy is out with his mom that means he doesnt consider him a threat so hes above all the bs thats going on :w00t::w00t:

[wolfi_2]

It's for me still unbelievable that in juvenile cases are any information get into the public and this is not a juvenile case, it's a children case, that take place in juvenile court, normally children are protected from this kind of stuff!

[rusure?]

to eryn and her precious child-may we discover through pain and torment, the strength to live with grace and humor. may we discover through doubt and anguish, the strength to live with dignity and holiness. may we discover through suffering and fear, the strenth to move toward healing. may it come to pass that be restored to health and to vigor. may life grant us wellness of body, spirit, and mind. and if this cannot be so, may we find in this passage moments of meaning, opportunities for love and the deep and gracious calm that comes when we allow ourselves to move on and pass this. god bless you and remain strong, don't stop believing in your child and know you have got a lot of supporters behind you :smile:no matter what!

Beautifully said.:thumbsup:

[mrrogers]

It just mentioned he tried to drown his half sister.

I would think she would bring her daughter with her at times and we don't know if he ever visited her in MS. Surely she would want him to meet and know his half sister, I would think. She flew there so she could have brought her daughter with her.

But the main thing it really doesn't matter which sister he tried to drown imo.

imo

thats like 3rd hand info i think all the stuff theyre saying right on the edge of lying. reading the report this video may have been made from
they just took a few of the statements and used it for a report more
sensationalism thaan anything else
ii may just email the producers and tellem what lol :w00t::w00t:

[Cherishlove]

i think rocha knows what is and what aint because the boy is out with his mom that means he doesnt consider him a threat so hes above all the bs thats going on :w00t::w00t:
I'm sure he sees through this....most of us on this post do as well.

[Cherishlove]

to eryn and her precious child-may we discover through pain and torment, the strength to live with grace and humor. may we discover through doubt and anguish, the strength to live with dignity and holiness. may we discover through suffering and fear, the strenth to move toward healing. may it come to pass that be restored to health and to vigor. may life grant us wellness of body, spirit, and mind. and if this cannot be so, may we find in this passage moments of meaning, opportunities for love and the deep and gracious calm that comes when we allow ourselves to move on and pass this. god bless you and remain strong, don't stop believing in your child and know you have got a lot of supporters behind you :smile:no matter what!Love it, I hope Eryn gets a chance to see this.

[Jacobtk]

It's for me still unbelievable that in juvenile cases are any information get into the public and this is not a juvenile case, it's a children case, that take place in juvenile court, normally children are protected from this kind of stuff!

I think this is because Roca is treating this like an adult case, which was what he was doing with the motion to dismiss the charge. The state objected to that, but only to the portion that did not favor them. The defense could object to the documents being released, but it probably would not get very far.

[muska]

I have never read anywhere that VR's daughter is older than CR. I was under the impression she would be younger. VR was only 29....more likely, I think, that the second child was born after CR.

Also, I believe Eryn usually drove to Arizona. A neighbor in Mississippi gave her the money to fly out after the shootings because she could not afford airfare.......as I remember, at least.

[wolfi_2]

I think this is because Roca is treating this like an adult case, which was what he was doing with the motion to dismiss the charge. The state objected to that, but only to the portion that did not favor them. The defense could object to the documents being released, but it probably would not get very far.


a child case treated like an adult case, there I ask me, if they have all cups on their board! sorry German phrase, can't explain it properly but I think you know what I mean.

one more question, is the clock always running again?

[bkwits]

I have never read anywhere that VR's daughter is older than CR. I was under the impression she would be younger. VR was only 29....more likely, I think, that the second child was born after CR.

Also, I believe Eryn usually drove to Arizona. A neighbor in Mississippi gave her the money to fly out after the shootings because she could not afford airfare.......as I remember, at least.

Yes, I recall that it was a 20 hour drive (each way), that she did once a month.

[muska]

I think this is because Roca is treating this like an adult case, which was what he was doing with the motion to dismiss the charge. The state objected to that, but only to the portion that did not favor them. The defense could object to the documents being released, but it probably would not get very far.

Brewer did object early on and as you said he didn't get very far. Judge Roca seems to believe Arizona's laws require him to release anything that can be considered a public document. Most states protect the privacy of juveniles but apparently not Arizona. Brewer did say that he felt the judge had the right to release less and the responsibility to protect the child.

[Jacobtk]

a child case treated like an adult case, there I ask me, if they have all cups on their board! sorry German phrase, can't explain it properly but I think you know what I mean.

one more question, is the clock always running again?

I do not think so. I think it begins again once the competency hearing happens.

[muska]

Yes, I recall that it was a 20 hour drive (each way), that she did once a month.

That is a long trip. I am sure she would not bring her daughter unless another adult was coming along as well.

[GentleBreeze]

That is a long trip. I am sure she would not bring her daughter unless another adult was coming along as well.

So he has never met his half sister and she is what? 3 or 4 years old?:confused:

[PensiveOne]

New story up on abc15.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

[GentleBreeze]

Why not?

I'm quite sure most mothers are more than capable of traveling with a child long distances without another adult.

I see mothers or fathers on flights with their very young children.

imo

[wolfi_2]

Na, that's indeed interesting news!

[PensiveOne]

This story just gets craizer by the minute. That helps the boy's case at least.

Sounds like he was still a dealer, too. At least this reporter is more fair.

[mina]

<sarcasm>
I'm shocked (shocked!) that neither of the video-only reports mentioned this tidbit of information.
</sarcasm>

[PensiveOne]

Article states several people with Very positive reports of child. I believe more and more, that the father, or his home life, or both, provoked this child to wrath. I didn't say murder, only wrath. IMHO:cursing:

I am sure his family is a total mess after this, whatever happened, TR should not have been living there.

[GentleBreeze]

Sounds like he was still a dealer, too. At least this reporter is more fair.

I don't know about being fairer. I have always felt that site was more sympathetic toward the boy than others.

No mention of him trying to drown his half sister though. Wonder why they left that part out?

Well it seems this boy was probably around his half sister since the ex stepfather made his statement.

imo

[PensiveOne]

<sarcasm>
I'm shocked (shocked!) that neither of the video-only reports mentioned this tidbit of information.
</sarcasm>

Amazing isn't it! Pretty big tidbit to leave out.

[Jacobtk]

I don't think big bad drug dealers would use a pea shooter to shoot anyone. Shooting them in the elbow,shoulder blade and grazing the head with three of the shots. They usually pack heavy heat and have large caliber guns that gets the job done with a lot less shots than 10 to kill two men.

The ballistics report has not been released, so we have no idea what type of gun was used or how many people were involved. Keep in mind that there was a Mossberg rifle that may have been in the home and one of Romans' guns was missing from his truck.

As I stated before, I do not believe in coincidence and it quite coincidental that a mid-level dealer who apparently had a death threat against him (though at best unsubstantiated) would end up shot to death. Keep in mind even some of the officers involved thought this was a drug-related shooting. It seems odd to dismiss that outright as a possibility, particularly when nothing seems to point conclusively at the boy.

About the claim of the boy trying to drown his sister, that I have read. It comes as third-hand information, so it would be inadmissible. A person can only testify to what he saw, heard or read. He cannot testify to what someone told him another person said. That automatically rules out the statement from the bus driver and the family friend.

[bkwits]

a child case treated like an adult case, there I ask me, if they have all cups on their board! sorry German phrase, can't explain it properly but I think you know what I mean.

one more question, is the clock always running again?

Is that like our saying -- if they have all their ducks in a row -- which means
--

If they are organized and have things set up right.

I so enjoy your posts Wofi.

[GentleBreeze]

The ballistics report has not been released, so we have no idea what type of gun was used or how many people were involved. Keep in mind that there was a Mossberg rifle that may have been in the home and one of Romans' guns was missing from his truck.

As I stated before, I do not believe in coincidence and it quite coincidental that a mid-level dealer who apparently had a death threat against him (though at best unsubstantiated) would end up shot to death. Keep in mind even some of the officers involved thought this was a drug-related shooting. It seems odd to dismiss that outright as a possibility, particularly when nothing seems to point conclusively at the boy.

About the claim of the boy trying to drown his sister, that I have read. It comes as third-hand information, so it would be inadmissible. A person can only testify to what he saw, heard or read. He cannot testify to what someone told him another person said. That automatically rules out the statement from the bus driver and the family friend.

We know it was a .22, the tiny casings are easily recognizable. The gun that was supposedly missing in Tim's truck was a much higher caliber than was used to commit these murders.

Again where does it say the witness was told about this and did not see the actual event for themselves?

The bus driver cant but the boy that heard it with his own ears most certainly can.

They guessed it was drug related because that town does not have homicides.

[Aradia5]

I don't know about being fairer. I have always felt that site was more sympathetic toward the boy than others.

No mention of him trying to drown his half sister though. Wonder why they left that part out?

Well it seems this boy was probably around his half sister since the ex stepfather made his statement.

imo
What did I miss? Ex-stepfather made a statement? Do you have a link?

[wolfi_2]

Is that like our saying -- if they have all their ducks in a row -- which means
--

If they are organized and have things set up right.

I so enjoy your posts Wofi.


I think you are right!:biggrin:

[bookie]

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."

This had to be in San Carlos. Tim only worked in St John, Monday thru Wednesday.

No mention of any drug activity going on in St. John with either of the two victims.

imoo



Since the police didn't appear to have investigated him there is no way to know if he'd been involved in drugs in St Johns. Wasn't it Neckles that testified that neither man had priors? That wasn't true in Tim's case.

The article said he was midlevel and had people selling for him. He may very well have had people selling for him in St Johns. No one is going to admit that now though.

[GentleBreeze]

What did I miss? Ex-stepfather made a statement? Do you have a link?

Excuse me. It said estranged husband not ex.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

In the same report, the detective reported the estranged husband of the boy's biological mother stated "he had never seen [the boy] yell, scream, or throw a tantrum." He described the boy as "a 'good kid'. He stated [the boy] is 'Very,very,very intelligent.'"

[rusure?]

Brewer did object early on and as you said he didn't get very far. Judge Roca seems to believe Arizona's laws require him to release anything that can be considered a public document. Most states protect the privacy of juveniles but apparently not Arizona. Brewer did say that he felt the judge had the right to release less and the responsibility to protect the child.

ITA. At best, the half statements given on the news are out of context and serve more to inflame public opinion in a negative light towards the boy and the victims. The DA released the video of the "confession" which worked really well to inflame public opinion. But not everyone fell for that tactic.

[Aradia5]

Excuse me. It said estranged husband not ex.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

In the same report, the detective reported the estranged husband of the boy's biological mother stated "he had never seen [the boy] yell, scream, or throw a tantrum." He described the boy as "a 'good kid'. He stated [the boy] is 'Very,very,very intelligent.'"

ahhhhhhh, thank you so much!

[GentleBreeze]

Since the police didn't appear to have investigated him there is no way to know if he'd been involved in drugs in St Johns. Wasn't it Neckles that testified that neither man had priors? That wasn't true in Tim's case.

The article said he was midlevel and had people selling for him. He may very well have had people selling for him in St Johns. No one is going to admit that now though.

Wonder why if SCPD knew all this why he wasn't arrested, charged and convicted.

Mrrogers, has said that Tim has never even done prison time.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Well one things is consistent and that the boy is very, very, very, intelligent.

imoo

[bkwits]

What did I miss? Ex-stepfather made a statement? Do you have a link?

Mr. Bloomfield said that CR adored his half-sister Kirsten, according the the report from the state.

[rusure?]

New story up on abc15.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

Thank you for that PensiveOne. I found it interesting that the last part of the article said"

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."

Something numerous times people on this board had an opinion that the murder was directed toward Tim. Sheds a whole new light hmm? If the boy (in some folks opinion) is shown to be guilty because he was heard to have said 3 months prior and 3 weeks prior to have intimated that he would kill his father. hmm.

IMO, the murder is more likely to have been by someone who had more motive due to drug dealing than the boy having a motive because of a spanking the night before.

[GentleBreeze]

Mr. Bloomfield said that CR adored his half-sister Kirsten, according the the report from the state.

Which report was that in bkwits. thanks in advance.

[rusure?]

Since the police didn't appear to have investigated him there is no way to know if he'd been involved in drugs in St Johns. Wasn't it Neckles that testified that neither man had priors? That wasn't true in Tim's case.

The article said he was midlevel and had people selling for him. He may very well have had people selling for him in St Johns. No one is going to admit that now though.

When Rodriguez and Jones went to San Carlos to notify the Romans family, they were told at the station in San Carlos that Tim was a drug dealer. Did they do any further investigation? Where are the urine analysis on Romans?

[Aradia5]

Thank you for that PensiveOne. I found it interesting that the last part of the article said"

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."

Something numerous times people on this board had an opinion that the murder was directed toward Tim. Sheds a whole new light hmm? If the boy (in some folks opinion) is shown to be guilty because he was heard to have said 3 months prior and 3 weeks prior to have intimated that he would kill his father. hmm.

IMO, the murder is more likely to have been by someone who had more motive due to drug dealing than the boy having a motive because of a spanking the night before.


Whoever shot at Tim's truck, may have come back to finish the job. :shrug:

[GentleBreeze]

Thank you for that PensiveOne. I found it interesting that the last part of the article said"

"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."

Something numerous times people on this board had an opinion that the murder was directed toward Tim. Sheds a whole new light hmm? If the boy (in some folks opinion) is shown to be guilty because he was heard to have said 3 months prior and 3 weeks prior to have intimated that he would kill his father. hmm.

IMO, the murder is more likely to have been by someone who had more motive due to drug dealing than the boy having a motive because of a spanking the night before.

I don't know, I think both motives are viable. We will have to wait and see what else comes forth. I am positive that DPS investigated that aspect very thoroughly imo and came up with nothing.

Here is a boy that just killed his stepfather for a stupid reason.

14 year old Arrested for Killing His Stepfather

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...020809.article

The 14-year-old boy wanted in the murder of his stepfather Saturday in southwest suburban Country Club Hills was in police custody Sunday afternoon.

After a “horrific” few weeks in southwest suburban Country Club Hills, police hope all suspects in the area’s five recent and unrelated murders will be brought to justice in the next few days.

The most recent slaying happened Saturday night, when 34-year-old John Weatherspoon was fatally stabbed in his home by his 14-year-old stepson—allegedly after scolding the teen for not doing his homework, Country Club Hills Mayor Dwight Welch said Sunday morning.

[rusure?]

Whoever shot at Tim's truck, may have come back to finish the job. :shrug:

Wonder if Tim told the officer the name of the person who threatened to kill him?

[Jacobtk]

Well one things is consistent and that the boy is very, very, very, intelligent.

Intelligence does not mean that a person committed a murder. The boy could be a genius, it would not make him a murderer nor would it make him capable of murder.

Wonder why if SCPD knew all this why he wasn't arrested, charged and convicted.

Most likely for the same reason other drug dealers are not arrested. They may not have anything substantive on him beyond a few underlings saying that he is in charge.

[GentleBreeze]

Whoever shot at Tim's truck, may have come back to finish the job. :shrug:

Then why not use the same higher caliber of gun he used to shoot the truck up at the party?

imoo

[rusure?]

I don't know, I think both motives are viable. We will have to wait and see what else comes forth. I am positive that DPS investigated that aspect very thoroughly imo and came up with nothing.

Here is a boy that just killed his stepfather for a stupid reason.

14 year old Arrested for Killing His Stepfather

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...020809.article

The 14-year-old boy wanted in the murder of his stepfather Saturday in southwest suburban Country Club Hills was in police custody Sunday afternoon.

After a “horrific” few weeks in southwest suburban Country Club Hills, police hope all suspects in the area’s five recent and unrelated murders will be brought to justice in the next few days.

The most recent slaying happened Saturday night, when 34-year-old John Weatherspoon was fatally stabbed in his home by his 14-year-old stepson—allegedly after scolding the teen for not doing his homework, Country Club Hills Mayor Dwight Welch said Sunday morning.

There is a big difference between a 14 year old step-child using a knife and a 8 year old son using a gun. Both are alleged crimes and niether have been proven. Wonder if this 14 year old was coerced to confess?

[GentleBreeze]

Intelligence does not mean that a person committed a murder. The boy could be a genius, it would not make him a murderer nor would it make him capable of murder.

Wonder why if SCPD knew all this why he wasn't arrested, charged and convicted.

Most likely for the same reason other drug dealers are not arrested. They may not have anything substantive on him beyond a few underlings saying that he is in charge.


They darn sure arrest them in my county. Piece of cake they just send in narc snitches into do the drug deals and I live in a rural area too.

Sure leaves egg on SCPD's face that they knew this yet they have never arrested him for even being a drug dealer.

imoo

[rusure?]

Well one things is consistent and that the boy is very, very, very, intelligent.

imoo

But, he was also found incompetent to stand trial. Intelligence doesn't mean he understands what happened. Understanding and intelligence are two different things.

[GentleBreeze]

There is a big difference between a 14 year old step-child using a knife and a 8 year old son using a gun. Both are alleged crimes and neither have been proven. Wonder if this 14 year old was coerced to confess?

He might just want to confess since his mother was with his stepdad when he was scolded for not doing his homework.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

But, he was also found incompetent to stand trial. Intelligence doesn't mean he understands what happened. Understanding and intelligence are two different things.

If he is ruled age incompetent it has nothing to do with understanding the wrongfulness of his acts.

It means due to his age he cannot assist in all the technical proceedings in a court trial.

imo

[rusure?]

If he is ruled age incompetent it has nothing to do with understanding the wrongfulness of his acts.

It means due to his age he cannot assist in all the technical proceedings in a court trial.

imo

to assist in all the technical proceedings in a court trial would mean he understands what is going on.

[rusure?]

to assist in all the technical proceedings in a court trial would mean he understands what is going on.

This explains it further:

COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL

Sufficient present ability to consult with ones attorney with a reasonable degree of rational understanding, and a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him.

(Dusky v. United States, 1960)

[rusure?]

This explains it further:

COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL

Sufficient present ability to consult with ones attorney with a reasonable degree of rational understanding, and a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him.

(Dusky v. United States, 1960)

The boy was found incompetent to stand trial. Incompetents does not equal intellegence.

[GentleBreeze]

This explains it further:

COMPETENCE TO STAND TRIAL

Sufficient present ability to consult with ones attorney with a reasonable degree of rational understanding, and a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him.

(Dusky v. United States, 1960)

Exactly. It is all about understanding the proceedings against him in a trial and the standard is just that. Not that he didn't have the understanding to know his acts were wrong or right.

It is a different standard for juveniles than the standard in the adult system.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

The boy was found incompetent to stand trial. Incompetents does not equal intellegence.

This boy? :confused:

I thought Judge Roca wasn't going to rule on the competency hearing until the 13th?

With the motion to dismiss count one on 2-12?

Did I miss something?

imoo

[mina]

When Rodriguez and Jones went to San Carlos to notify the Romans family, they were told at the station in San Carlos that Tim was a drug dealer. Did they do any further investigation? Where are the urine analysis on Romans?

Once again I'm shocked (shocked!) that the media spin on the autopsy was that "toxicology tests show neither man had taken drugs or alcohol the day they died." Guess they didn't notice the missing seocnd page of TR's toxicology report. I wonder what else they've missed.

[GentleBreeze]

Once again I'm shocked (shocked!) that the media spin on the autopsy was that "toxicology tests show neither man had taken drugs or alcohol the day they died." Guess they didn't notice the missing seocnd page of TR's toxicology report. I wonder what else they've missed.

The clerk may have missed putting it on the site or giving it to the media but there is nothing that says the toxicology report was positive on Tim, the first sheet shown is nothing but negative all the way through.

imoo

[ChildsVOICE]

New story up on abc15.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

Very interesting ending.

[GentleBreeze]

Once again I'm shocked (shocked!) that the media spin on the autopsy was that "toxicology tests show neither man had taken drugs or alcohol the day they died." Guess they didn't notice the missing second page of TR's toxicology report. I wonder what else they've missed.

Mina, I just went and looked at them again.

The difference is they listed Vinnie's tox results on two pages where they listed the same tox tested on Tim but listed it all on one page not two. They are the same with the same results. Negative on everything.

imoo

[ChildsVOICE]

Wonder if Tim told the officer the name of the person who threatened to kill him?

The original shot into TR's truck came from his cousin during a drug related altercation. This was done on the reservation.

[ChildsVOICE]

They darn sure arrest them in my county. Piece of cake they just send in narc snitches into do the drug deals and I live in a rural area too.

Sure leaves egg on SCPD's face that they knew this yet they have never arrested him for even being a drug dealer.

imoo

The article states SC T PD

http://www.road-police.com/police/Arizona/San_Carlos/property_1190/police.html

Documents and police reports are not as easily obtained from the reservation. Sometimes impossible.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Why was "that day" the only day Tiffany asked Nicole to stay at the house until CR came home?

Oddly coincidental?

[Jacobtk]

Exactly. It is all about understanding the proceedings against him in a trial and the standard is just that. Not that he didn't have the understanding to know his acts were wrong or right.

It is a different standard for juveniles than the standard in the adult system.

No, it is not. The standard for adults is simply whether as a result of mental issues a person cannot act in his own defense and understand the proceedings. With juveniles the same standard applies along with whether the child's age impacts his ability to act in his own defense. Whether a person understands morality (right and wrong) does not play a role in adult or juvenile competency.

[muska]

Wow! I just saw the new article. That last paragraph is very, very interesting!! TR knew someone was after him one week before he ended up dead! And asking Candy to marry him the night before.............I don't know what to say.

It was so nice to hear some of the nice comments about the boy, especially from Eryn's former husband. It doesn't sound as though he thinks the boy would try to hurt his daughter.

And the comment from the neighbor too. Whoever that was, he/she really defended CR. Thank goodness for people like that!!

[muska]

So he has never met his half sister and she is what? 3 or 4 years old?:confused:

Oh, I bet that her husband or mother or someone else came along occasionally......maybe always.

[GentleBreeze]

The article states SC T PD

http://www.road-police.com/police/Arizona/San_Carlos/property_1190/police.html

Documents and police reports are not as easily obtained from the reservation. Sometimes impossible.

Even in the transcript concerning Rodriquez he doesn't state it was the tribal police he talked with. IIRC he said the police department in San Carlos.

In that transcript as well they never said that Tim had been arrested, charged and convicted but only that they had suspicions he was a minor or medium level drug dealer.

imoo

[TaraCrazyHair]

Well one things is consistent and that the boy is very, very, very, intelligent.

imoo

And quite possibly too intelligent to commit murder .. not once but twice


Not to mention -- most gifted children (if he was classified as such) tend to lack common sense so to speak

Double murder by an eight year old would require both common sense and intelligence

My eight year old grandson is classified as gifted and bless his heart, does not exhibit the best common sense

He also has self admitted 'anger issues" ... as an eight year old see anger anyway

I had him all night last night and all I could do was look at him and wonder ... would he ever be capable of murder even in his "anger"?

Answer was no

[Jacobtk]

Why was "that day" the only day Tiffany asked Nicole to stay at the house until CR came home?

Oddly coincidental?

What is more strange is that Nicole apparently left before the boy arrived, but it not reported in any of the released interviews whether she notified Tiffany that the boy had not come home. If she did, Tiffany did not mention that in Neckels report. It also would not make sense that she was not trying to call the boy or why she was unavailable the first time the boy tried to call her.

[GentleBreeze]

Oh, I bet that her husband or mother or someone else came along occasionally......maybe always.


I sure would hope so.

imoo

[ChildsVOICE]

They darn sure arrest them in my county. Piece of cake they just send in narc snitches into do the drug deals and I live in a rural area too.

Sure leaves egg on SCPD's face that they knew this yet they have never arrested him for even being a drug dealer.

imoo


For every one that is caught how many more are still in business?

The addicts are getting their supply from someone.

[Crispy]

Mina, I just went and looked at them again.

The difference is they listed Vinnie's tox results on two pages where they listed the same tox tested on Tim but listed it all on one page not two. They are the same with the same results. Negative on everything.

imoo


Tim Romans urine samples are not listed anywhere on that tox report. It says on the autopsy report that blood, urine and eye fluid were all sent out. It goes from blood to eye fluid and the pages say 1 of 3 and 3 of 3. 2 of 3 is not there. On VR's reports urine is the second page.

[muska]

Sounds like he was still a dealer, too. At least this reporter is more fair.

Sounds like he was definitely still dealing.............I have to admit, I am a little surprised.

I have, though, always wondered about the five one hundred dollar bills.

[TaraCrazyHair]

What is more strange is that Nicole apparently left before the boy arrived, but it not reported in any of the released interviews whether she notified Tiffany that the boy had not come home. If she did, Tiffany did not mention that in Neckels report. It also would not make sense that she was not trying to call the boy or why she was unavailable the first time the boy tried to call her.

I am unclear if she stayed to wait or if she said she couldn't because of volleyball?

If she said she would stay and wait for him ... where is the panic call to Tiffany that CR never got off the bus? You know ... that call anyone would make??

Something very odd about that to me

Would love clarification

[GentleBreeze]

And quite possibly too intelligent to commit murder .. not once but twice


Not to mention -- most gifted children (if he was classified as such) tend to lack common sense so to speak

Double murder by an eight year old would require both common sense and intelligence

My eight year old grandson is classified as gifted and bless his heart, does not exhibit the best common sense

He also has self admitted 'anger issues" ... as an eight year old see anger anyway

I had him all night last night and all I could do was look at him and wonder ... would he ever be capable of murder even in his "anger"?

Answer was no

Oh I don't think he had to be all that intelligent to pull this off. It was a rather easy task, imo and he didn't have to read in a manual how to shoot the gun, he already knew and even told the officers it was easy to use.

Well I am positive not all 8 year olds are exactly alike especially since this boy's own grandparents thought him capable of doing this.

I am like you, I have gifted grandchildren too around this age and I could never envision them being capable of murder. Absolutely not.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Tim Romans urine samples are not listed anywhere on that tox report. It says on the autopsy report that blood, urine and eye fluid were all sent out. It goes from blood to eye fluid and the pages say 1 of 3 and 3 of 3. 2 of 3 is not there. On VR's reports urine is the second page.

I thought the blood test is the most conclusive and would pick up any traces of drugs found.

I don't think he tested positive for anything.

JMO

[muska]

<sarcasm>
I'm shocked (shocked!) that neither of the video-only reports mentioned this tidbit of information.
</sarcasm>

It does seem very unfair not to mention this. For all these months, the media jumps on all things negative about the boy and here is something that points away from him. Maybe there will be more in the next couple of days.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Oh I don't think he had to be all that intelligent to pull this off. It was a rather easy task, imo and he didn't have to read in a manual how to shoot the gun, he already knew and even told the officers it was easy to use.

Well I am positive not all 8 year olds are exactly alike especially since this boy's own grandparents thought him capable of doing this.

I am like you, I have gifted grandchildren too around this age and I could never envision them being capable of murder. Absolutely not.

imoo

Unless he did not care if he was caught during the murder, it would require a certain level of intelligence

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

I don't think big bad drug dealers would use a pea shooter to shoot anyone. Shooting them in the elbow,shoulder blade and grazing the head with three of the shots. They usually pack heavy heat and have large caliber guns that gets the job done with a lot less shots than 10 to kill two men.

imoo


LOL, Please excuse my laugh. I dont believe they said big drug dealers. It has been stated he had people selling for him. Are you from Arizona? If not then you really dont know. You say big bad drug delears usually have big guns? Hmm NO!!! Believe me this part of the state, there is no big time drug dealer, and if your a small one that has people selling METH for you, those are the biggest white trash people that you are going to find in that neck of the woods. Apparently you do not know to many drug dealers, and when your dealing with Meth heads anything is possible.

[Aradia5]

I am unclear if she stayed to wait or if she said she couldn't because of volleyball?

If she said she would stay and wait for him ... where is the panic call to Tiffany that CR never got off the bus? You know ... that call anyone would make??

Something very odd about that to me

Would love clarification

What panic? :confused:


lol

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

Sounds like he was definitely still dealing.............I have to admit, I am a little surprised.

I have, though, always wondered about the five one hundred dollar bills.


That could be one reason his wife did not want to give up the phone number, afraid the police would find out what his side business was.

[Jacobtk]

I am unclear if she stayed to wait or if she said she couldn't because of volleyball?

If she said she would stay and wait for him ... where is the panic call to Tiffany that CR never got off the bus? You know ... that call anyone would make??

Something very odd about that to me

Would love clarification

I do not think any will be given for quite some time. However, I would not continue to be friends with someone who left before my child returned home after I asked her to wait for him, volleyball game or not.

[TaraCrazyHair]

What panic? :confused:


lol

When I sit at my son's house and wait for my grandson to get home from school ... if he did not come home, I would panic!

Wouldn't anyone?

:confused:

[bkwits]

I am unclear if she stayed to wait or if she said she couldn't because of volleyball?

If she said she would stay and wait for him ... where is the panic call to Tiffany that CR never got off the bus? You know ... that call anyone would make??

Something very odd about that to me

Would love clarification

Me too. I'm going back to see what time whe was at volleyball practice. Didn't Tiff ask Nicole to stay with C until she got home? If that is the case why was Tiff dawdling around at Wilbur's and Napa?

[muska]

Why was "that day" the only day Tiffany asked Nicole to stay at the house until CR came home?

Oddly coincidental?

I have been trying to locate what you are all talking about here. Was Nicole waiting at the house on the 5th? Did the boy come home? What is this about? And where did you find it? Thanks so much!!

[TaraCrazyHair]

I do not think any will be given for quite some time. However, I would not continue to be friends with someone who left before my child returned home after I asked her to wait for him, volleyball game or not.


That makes two of us!

But did she agree to stay or did she say she couldn't beforehand?

If she did agree to stay ... what did she tell Tiffany when he did not come home?

WHY was that the only time she was ever asked to wait for him?

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

Mina, I just went and looked at them again.

The difference is they listed Vinnie's tox results on two pages where they listed the same tox tested on Tim but listed it all on one page not two. They are the same with the same results. Negative on everything.

imoo

Does not prove he didn't use. Meth is out of your system in 3 days. Weed is the only drug that stays in your system for 30.

[GentleBreeze]

LOL, Please excuse my laugh. I don't believe they said big drug dealers. It has been stated he had people selling for him. Are you from Arizona? If not then you really don't know. You say big bad drug delears usually have big guns? Hmm NO!!! Believe me this part of the state, there is no big time drug dealer, and if your a small one that has people selling METH for you, those are the biggest white trash people that you are going to find in that neck of the woods. Apparently you do not know to many drug dealers, and when your dealing with Meth heads anything is possible.

I have never done drugs. No, I know no meth dealers and never have encountered them nor do I expect to in my personal life but I think if Tim can own a large caliber gun and his cousin too that the "shooter" would able to scrape up something a little more immediately lethal than a pea shooter.

imoo

[muska]

Me too. I'm going back to see what time whe was at volleyball practice. Didn't Tiff ask Nicole to stay with C until she got home? If that is the case why was Tiff dawdling around at Wilbur's and Napa?

Was this in a news article?

[rusure?]

This boy? :confused:

I thought Judge Roca wasn't going to rule on the competency hearing until the 13th?

With the motion to dismiss count one on 2-12?

Did I miss something?

imoo

Excuse me. I wasn't specific enough for you. He was found age incompetent by the defense expert. Haven't heard from the pros expert yet. IMO he will be found age incompetent all the way around. Again, you commented that he was intellegent. I'm just saying just because he's intellegent does not mean he killed and if he did he did not understood what was happening. From a legal standpoint, age competency has nothing to do with the murder itself, however, IMO, if he is age incompetent to stand trial, how could he possible understand the magnitude of the murders, if he committed them, how could he understand the magnitude in confessing to something he did not do?

[Crispy]

I thought the blood test is the most conclusive and would pick up any traces of drugs found.

I don't think he tested positive for anything.

JMO

From what I understand some drugs will stay in the urine longer than the blood.

[TaraCrazyHair]

It appears I should read everything first then post my questions afterwards ...

So Nicole is a bit of a loose cannon?

[GentleBreeze]

Excuse me. I wasn't specific enough for you. He was found age incompetent by the defense expert. Haven't heard from the pros expert yet. IMO he will be found age incompetent all the way around. Again, you commented that he was intelligent. I'm just saying just because he's intelligent does not mean he killed and if he did he did not understood what was happening. From a legal standpoint, age competency has nothing to do with the murder itself, however, IMO, if he is age incompetent to stand trial, how could he possible understand the magnitude of the murders, if he committed them, how could he understand the magnitude in confessing to something he did not do?

It doesn't take complex thinking to murder someone. Knowing the ends and outs of a legal court proceeding is totally different. That is why the standard is to find him competent or incompetent to assist in his defense and know how the trial proceedings work.

Well we have seen in past cases intelligence seems to go out the window when someone decides to murder. I will never forget the case of Don Morengello, the NASA rocket scientist. All his intelligence must have been used up at work because he planned the lamest murder plot when he murdered his wife.

imoo

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

From what I understand some drugs will stay in the urine longer than the blood.

Meth only stays in your system for 3, the only drug that stays in your system for longer is weed. Now if someone does acid, then that actually cleans your system instantly, and that can only be traced threw spinal fluid

[bkwits]

Me too. I'm going back to see what time whe was at volleyball practice. Didn't Tiff ask Nicole to stay with C until she got home? If that is the case why was Tiff dawdling around at Wilbur's and Napa?

The middle school volleyball coach said Nicole was there (on 11/5) when she, the coach, arrived at 3:15 pm. How long could Nicole have waited for CR. The whole story smells, IMO.

[Aradia5]

That makes two of us!

But did she agree to stay or did she say she couldn't beforehand?

If she did agree to stay ... what did she tell Tiffany when he did not come home?

WHY was that the only time she was ever asked to wait for him?

Ahem, three of us.

:smile:

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

I have never done drugs. No, I know no meth dealers and never have encountered them nor do I expect to in my personal life but I think if Tim can own a large caliber gun and his cousin too that the "shooter" would able to scrape up something a little more immediately lethal than a pea shooter.

imoo

And since you dont, then really you have no idea!!!

[Aradia5]

The middle school volleyball coach said Nicole was there (on 11/5) when she, the coach, arrived at 3:15 pm. How long could Nicole have waited for CR. The whole story smells, IMO.

Volleyball practice lasts how long? :confused:

[Aradia5]

It appears I should read everything first then post my questions afterwards ...

So Nicole is a bit of a loose cannon?

Understatement

imo:wink:

[bkwits]

Was this in a news article?

No, in the DPS Report.

[Crispy]

OK where is the Tiffany/Nicole volleyball thing coming from? Some of the videos won't play for me. Someone help. LOL

[GentleBreeze]

From what I understand some drugs will stay in the urine longer than the blood.

I have never heard of that. I know if an employee is involved in a vehicle accident while on duty they are taken to the lab to give a blood sample immediately. On random testing they do the urine sample.

So I would think blood testing is much more accurate than urine.

I think the clerk of the court just mistakenly didn't submit page 2 on Tim but the media got all of the tox reports on each man and it was both negative all the way.

imoo

[Crispy]

http://www.passdt.com/news/drug-detection-periods/

[ChildsVOICE]

Let's gather all the info we have on the illegal drug problem/operation theory.
(Which has been my top theory since the very beginning.)

Two men shot multiple times each, EXECUTION STYLE.
TR shot 6 times/ the most times.
VR shot 4 times
This indicates TR was the primary target.

Multiple wounds indicate rage, hate, and/or assurance each victim was most certainly dead.

Head and Chest wounds= Execution style

Hitmen carry out execution style murders.

Drug dealers employ their own hitmen or addicts to serve as hitmen.

Because TR had the most wounds, one must look at his profile first.

There are rumors circling around St. Johns that TR had "dealt in Meth".
(Rumors=Red Flag)

Was TR having any previous drug related problems prior to coming to St. Johns?
Reportedly, Yes. Previous drug related charges. Bullet hole in truck from cousin during drug related argument. (Red Flag. Red Flag.)

TR left one area of AZ to move to another a few hrs away.
TR became boarder at age 39 years old (Red Flag).

TR's wife seems surprised and denies talks of divorce yet, lives seperately from TR. (Red Flag) If one had an addiction or dealt illegal drugs that person may want to live away from loved ones to protect them or to hide the addiciton/ business from their loved ones.

There are reports TR was not paying a low $50/week rent to VR even though he was found with 5 $100 bills on his person.
( i.e. Was not paying his debts.) (Red Flag)
Was TR running from a bad debt to a drug dealer back in his home town? or surrounding area? Did he run one up in St. Johns area?

Since he was living with and working with VR and not paying a small rent fee, reportedly, for 3 weeks. This indicates he liked to push the limits on friendship and work relationships. (Red Flag)

TR had extra-marital affairs, reportedly, and details of such really tested the limits of inter-personal relationships.

Did he push the limits a little too far with a drug dealer back in his old home town? or surrounding areas? in St. Johns?

Did either of the bar maids with whom TR had the affairs, have any ex boyfriends or family members who were drug dealers of any significance? enough so to have this crime done out of jealosy? protection of their loved one?

TR just happened to move to the 2nd largest capitol of Meth in all of AZ.
(REd Flag) (See new prosecutor's campaign website).

The crime happened not long after TR left town (hometown that is).
(Red Flag)

TR reckless in behavior. Indicated by extra-marital affairs with two women from the same bar; not paying rent to landlord who he lived with and whom he worked with; bar fights, & more. (Red Flag)

TR was found with 5 $100 bills CASH on his person on a Wednesday.
(Red Flag)

TR reportedly stayed gone from the place he was renting and was supposidely living at, overnight stays several days per week.
(Red Flag in conjunction with these other factors)

Testimony in police record TR left bar with "Candy" and stayed gone for lengthy time period then returned back to bar. Did they leave the bar to use? to make a sale? (Red Flag)

Both Sgt R and Officer Neckles stated that they assumed because of the neighborhood in which they were responding to they thought they were going to find an overdose victim. (Red Flag. Red Flag)

TR was a foreman but only worked M-W and travelled 'home' each week. (Red Flag) Why was he travelling back and forth? How could he afford to travel when he couldn't afford to pay his rent and when he frequented the bar and kept a 'side dish' or two or so?

Now VR:

VR has sister-in-law with recent Meth drug related charge to the point it is reported she was found by police using or having used while holding an infant. Court proceedings followed. (Red Flag)

Who was her dealer?

Was the Romero household a target to keep Tiffany's sister quite? to keep her from snitching? to send her a message? out of retaliation for something she'd done? Was Tiffany & boy supposed to be a target, as well?

Whose are the expensive RV and other expensive items that are seen in police photographs? Which man could afford those items? (Red Flag)

There's one man who needs to rent a room at $50 / week. The other man gets a ride to work. (Red flag in conjunction with expensive "toys")

Reports on this board that neither men had house nor vehicle properties in their name. (Red Flag if true)


Was TR &/or VR trying to encroach upon a dealer's business in the St. Johns' area? Did either man do anything for the local dealer(s) to think so?

Why did a gang want to recruit a 39 year old mid level meth dealer?

Would anyone have any reason to think TR or VR was too cozy with any local law enforcement officers? Would they be threatened by this?

[rusure?]

When I sit at my son's house and wait for my grandson to get home from school ... if he did not come home, I would panic!

Wouldn't anyone?

:confused:

I still panic if my 23 yo daughter doesn't come home on time. I don't think anyone ever stops panicing if there children do not walk in the door when expected to.

[bkwits]

Volleyball practice lasts how long? :confused:

middle school practice was over at 5pm then she went with the coach to the high school to scrimmage against their team .

when Coach Walsh left the high school at 6:10 pm, Nicole was still there.

From DPS

[GentleBreeze]

And since you don't, then really you have no idea!!!


Well I read my local and state and national papers and do know that many meth users or dealers when caught are in the possession of higher powered weapons. Like a 38s 45s or a Gloch 9 and that dang sure ain't no pea shooter that has tiny little bullets.

imoo

[Aradia5]

New info changes a lot of that.

imo

[bkwits]

I still panic if my 23 yo daughter doesn't come home on time. I don't think anyone ever stops panicing if there children do not walk in the door when expected to.

I'm at the age when I have to call my children when I get home. :biggrin:

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

Since CR was the only child. I know he has 2 sisters, but the only child in his home. I am not suprised they say he is very intelligant, and munipulative. This is very common for children that is the only child in the home. They are around adults more then children there own age. When my boys have friends come over, I know right away if there a only child or not.

[Cherishlove]

http://www.passdt.com/news/drug-detection-periods/
We also have to remember just because you deal drugs doesn't mean you do them, some people just do it for the money they know it's a dangerous life to lead but it's the money they want.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Understatement

imo:wink:

Did I read right?

She claimed CR told her (Nicole) things after his confessed and was arrested?

Was she allowed to see him?

:confused:

[rusure?]

http://www.passdt.com/news/drug-detection-periods/

Thanks Crispy! That was an eye opener.

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

Well I read my local and state and national papers and do know that many meth users or dealers when caught are in the possession of higher powered weapons. Like a 38s 45s or a Gloch 9 and that dang sure ain't no pea shooter that has tiny little bullets.

imoo

Well we are talking about the St.Johns area, most of these people still have generators for there only source of electricity. I would not say he was not a dealer by no arrest. Drug units usually investigate for a LONG period of time befor they make a move, there priority is to get the main man not the middle man that they suggest Tim was.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I'm at the age when I have to call my children when I get home. :biggrin:


I resemble that remark

LOL

(:

[GentleBreeze]

Well we are talking about the St.Johns area, most of these people still have generators for there only source of electricity. I would not say he was not a dealer by no arrest. Drug units usually investigate for a LONG period of time befor they make a move, there priority is to get the main man not the middle man that they suggest Tim was.

This wasn't in St. John. I thought all of this came from San Carlos.

I am not sure that is right. I looked up the median household income for St. John and it is around $43,000 iirc. Sure isn't the lowest in the nation by any means.


imoo

[TaraCrazyHair]

The more i read ... the more creeped out I am getting

[ChildsVOICE]

New info changes a lot of that.

imo

Do you mean ANSWERS a lot of that?:biggrin:

[muska]

No, in the DPS Report.

Thank you! I will go through it in the morning.......does it say that Nicole was there at all after school?

[GentleBreeze]

In fact I missed it. It isnt $43,000 annually but

Estimated median household income in 2007: $46,061 (it was $35,215 in 2000)

St. Johns: $46,061
Arizona: $49,889


http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

This wasn't in St. John. I thought all of this came from San Carlos.

I am not sure that is right. I looked up the median household income for St. John and it is around $43,000 iirc. Sure isn't the lowest in the nation by any means.


imoo


Your not from here then really you do not have an idea, and San Carlos not anymore wealthier.

[Aradia5]

Did I read right?

She claimed CR told her (Nicole) things after his confessed and was arrested?

Was she allowed to see him?

:confused:
See Page 49

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

Thank you! I will go through it in the morning.......does it say that Nicole was there at all after school?

Were do you find these reports at?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Why on God's green earth would Tiffany need closure from a relationship Vince had in high school enough to have a secret three way convo with warnings?

I am flabberghasted the more I read!!!!

There are more skeletons in the ST John closet than I have shoes... and trust me .. I have a boatload of shoes!!!

Yet they take the confession of the boy and stop everything?

my my my

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

In fact I missed it. It isnt $43,000 annually but

Estimated median household income in 2007: $46,061 (it was $35,215 in 2000)

St. Johns: $46,061
Arizona: $49,889


http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

Accourse those reports would have that, does it meen there true NO. You would never get visitors, or anyone wanting to move into the community.:wink:

[TaraCrazyHair]

See Page 49

That is what I am talking about!!!


OMG!

Then of all crazy people or dellusional or whatever she is/was ... that is who tiffany decided right after the murder of her husband and arrest of her stepson that she had to go with to "get away"?

[bkwits]

Thank you! I will go through it in the morning.......does it say that Nicole was there at all after school?

IIRC, Nicole says she went to the Romero house (she goes over every day to let the dog out), let the dog out, waited for CR, but he didn't come home and she had to leave. She doesn't say anything about calling Tiff to let her know that CR didn't come home.

Again, IIRC, Tiff had asked her to stay until someone (either she or Vince) got home, but I have to check back on that.

[GentleBreeze]

Your not from here then really you do not have an idea, and San Carlos not anymore wealthier.

I don't have to be from there. The census bureau pulls from actual records of income made by St. John's residents.

Estimated median household income in 2007: $46,061 (it was $35,215 in 2000)

People making that amount of money don't have to have generators in order to obtain electricity.

There is a population of poor people in every city but in St. John the medium income per household is not at poverty level.

imoo

[Crispy]

We also have to remember just because you deal drugs doesn't mean you do them, some people just do it for the money they know it's a dangerous life to lead but it's the money they want.

You're right it doesn't, but I still wanna see it.

[mina]

Mina, I just went and looked at them again.

The difference is they listed Vinnie's tox results on two pages where they listed the same tox tested on Tim but listed it all on one page not two. They are the same with the same results. Negative on everything.

imoo

Dear GentleBreeze,

I understand, I missed the page numbering the first time through as well. I admit, I had to put on my granny glasses to figure it out. But after inspecting the documents carefully, I have no choice but to admit that page 2 of 3 is mysteriously absent from the AIT Laboratories toxicology report for Tim Romans.

Page 1 of 3 states only the results of the cavity blood test, and page 3 of 3 reports the results of the vitreous humor (AKA eye fluid) test.

There is no page 2.

The autopsy report cites three toxicology tests: "Vitreous humor, cavity blood, and urine are sent to the toxicology laboratory for analysis."

[mrrogers]

[quote=mzmarymac;12754970]


Excellent post.

I rechecked VR's autopsy and he had a belt on. So, the belt on the stairs apparently is not his for the day of the shootings. Perhaps it was used the night before by Tiffany. I still don't understand why VR would tell Tiffany to spank the boy. Why didn't she tell him to do it himself? And over forgetting a paper?

the assault was when she was 15
and the dates were in december

[TaraCrazyHair]

IIRC, Nicole says she went to the Romero house (she goes over every day to let the dog out), let the dog out, waited for CR, but he didn't come home and she had to leave. She doesn't say anything about calling Tiff to let her know that CR didn't come home.

Again, IIRC, Tiff had asked her to stay until someone (either she or Vince) got home, but I have to check back on that.

I thought it stated until CR came home but will double check also

Either way ... how normal is that not to call if you have to leave?

And how coincidental the day of the murders is the only time she was ever asked to wait at the house?

(But all is good since CR told her of his plan and she was never in any danger)

:blink:

[muska]

IIRC, Nicole says she went to the Romero house (she goes over every day to let the dog out), let the dog out, waited for CR, but he didn't come home and she had to leave. She doesn't say anything about calling Tiff to let her know that CR didn't come home.

Again, IIRC, Tiff had asked her to stay until someone (either she or Vince) got home, but I have to check back on that.

So doesn't this seem to verify the child's story - that he did not go home once he got off the bus?

[GentleBreeze]

Why on God's green earth would Tiffany need closure from a relationship Vince had in high school enough to have a secret three way convo with warnings?

I am flabberghasted the more I read!!!!

There are more skeletons in the ST John closet than I have shoes... and trust me .. I have a boatload of shoes!!!

Yet they take the confession of the boy and stop everything?

my my my

Where are you reading these reports? Or is it only for a selected few to know?

imoo

[muska]

Dear GentleBreeze,

I understand, I missed the page numbering the first time through as well. I admit, I had to put on my granny glasses to figure it out. But after inspecting the documents carefully, I have no choice but to admit that page 2 of 3 is mysteriously absent from the AIT Laboratories toxicology report for Tim Romans.

Page 1 of 3 states only the results of the cavity blood test, and page 3 of 3 reports the results of the vitreous humor (AKA eye fluid) test.

There is no page 2.

The autopsy report cites three toxicology tests: "Vitreous humor, cavity blood, and urine are sent to the toxicology laboratory for analysis."

And the plot thickens!!

[GentleBreeze]

Did I read right?

She claimed CR told her (Nicole) things after his confessed and was arrested?

Was she allowed to see him?

:confused:

What did he tell her?

imoo

[Aradia5]

So doesn't this seem to verify the child's story - that he did not go home once he got off the bus?

I sure does.

But.... she is "unstable"

imo

[Aradia5]

That is what I am talking about!!!


OMG!

Then of all crazy people or dellusional or whatever she is/was ... that is who tiffany decided right after the murder of her husband and arrest of her stepson that she had to go with to "get away"?

I was hoping you knew I meant pg. 49 of the .pdf lol

[TaraCrazyHair]

What did he tell her?

imoo

Apparently, this Nicole told somebody she talked to CR after the confession and he told her he planned it and she was not part of the plan

[bkwits]

IIRC, Nicole says she went to the Romero house (she goes over every day to let the dog out), let the dog out, waited for CR, but he didn't come home and she had to leave. She doesn't say anything about calling Tiff to let her know that CR didn't come home.

Again, IIRC, Tiff had asked her to stay until someone (either she or Vince) got home, but I have to check back on that.



I stand corrected. Nicole said Tiff just asked her the morning of 11/5 to stay until CR got home. It was the first time she had asked her to do that.

Nicole doesn't seem to have had a paying job.

[bkwits]

So doesn't this seem to verify the child's story - that he did not go home once he got off the bus?

Yes, it does.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I stand corrected. Nicole said Tiff just asked her the morning of 11/5 to stay until CR got home. It was the first time she had asked her to do that.

Nicole doesn't seem to have had a paying job.


And why is that i wonder?

The only time she was asked was "that" day

Or was she really asked?

Did she create that in her head?

[bkwits]

Apparently, this Nicole told somebody she talked to CR after the confession and he told her he planned it and she was not part of the plan

The woman who told about the conversation with Nicole, said Nicole had been drinking, and was an "unstable person".

Nicole is reported to have said in this conversation that CR told her he did, he planned it. Nicole SAID she was not part of the plan. The way I read it Nicole would have had to talk to CR after he was arrested.

Does that seem likely?

[muska]

The woman who told about the conversation with Nicole, said Nicole had been drinking, and was an "unstable person".

Nicole is reported to have said in this conversation that CR told her he did, he planned it. Nicole SAID she was not part of the plan. The way I read it Nicole would have had to talk to CR after he was arrested.

Does that seem likely?

It doesn't sound at all likely to me. She would have had to visit at the detention center. Where else would she see him?

[TaraCrazyHair]

The woman who told about the conversation with Nicole, said Nicole had been drinking, and was an "unstable person".

Nicole is reported to have said in this conversation that CR told her he did, he planned it. Nicole SAID she was not part of the plan. The way I read it Nicole would have had to talk to CR after he was arrested.

Does that seem likely?

I would say practically impossible

In fact .. not even practically

Impossible

The web is getting larger

[TaraCrazyHair]

Question about the chipmunk rifle

Was it a pump or semi or single load?

I know diddley about guns

To be proficient --- does that mean to shoot 2 out of 5 squirrels is a good record?

[muska]

Question about the chipmunk rifle

Was it a pump or semi or single load?

I know diddley about guns

To be proficient --- does that mean to shoot 2 out of 5 squirrels is a good record?

I believe it was a single load. Does it say he shot 2 out of 5?

[MOTHEROF4BOY]

:scared:


From the article:


"Vasey stated she contacted the SCTPD who said Tim Romans had been arrested and was known to be a mid-level drug dealer. He had several people who dealt methamphetamine for him at the street level. One of those people...stated a week prior to the shooting Tim called her saying someone wanted to kill him."

Since its pretty much known now he was a mid level drug dealer, and if the true story Mrs. Romans ASKED her husband who is that he could have said the boy, knowing that is was someone involved in the drug ring, that he did not want his wife to know about.:sneaky:

[bkwits]

Lots to discuss, but now I have to go night night.

:seeya:

[muska]

Lots to discuss, but now I have to go night night.

:seeya:

Good night!!

[ChildsVOICE]

Same News report as posted earlier suggesting TR history as mid-level meth dealer

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

[ChildsVOICE]

DPS report was just sent to me. I'll have to wait to read it till tomorrow.

[ChildsVOICE]

Send me your email addresses on the boy's site.

[Aradia5]

Send me your email addresses on the boy's site.

Great save! Thank you!! :thumbsup:

[Aradia5]

At approximately 1145 hours, Officer Barmore interviewed Ms. Trujillo's daughter, Helen Marquez, at the same residence. Ms. Marquez said on the evening of 11/05/2008, after emergency units had arrived at the Romero home, she saw a male subject walking fast eastbound on W. ylh North. She said when the subject reached the corner of 13th West, a passenger car traveling southbound on 13th West stopped near the subject. The subject got into the car and the car continued southbound at a high rate of speed. Ms. Marquez described the male subject as being in his 20s with a dark complexion and short black hair. She said the subject was wearing black baggy trousers and a blue and black plaid flannel
shirt. She said she had not previously seen the subject in the neighborhood.

---------Then noted as a grey car (most likely primer) Could look white imo

[Aradia5]

Thanks...on my way as well. Get the wine ready!!!

99 pages. Have a great time!:w00t:

[IAMME]

Okay I am not sure why noone else is stating the part that was left out.....

"The SCTPD said John Andreas was somehow tied into Tim's illegal drug business and would know if someone was trying to kill Tim."

HMMMMMM

And what about the man seen leaving the area on foot very quickly that was picked up by the car that was primer gray and then SPED away???!!!!!!!?!?!!?!?!?!?


HMMMMM


Old primer could look white IMO

[ChildsVOICE]

At approximately 1145 hours, Officer Barmore interviewed Ms. Trujillo's daughter, Helen Marquez, at the same residence. Ms. Marquez said on the evening of 11/05/2008, after emergency units had arrived at the Romero home, she saw a male subject walking fast eastbound on W. ylh North. She said when the subject reached the corner of 13th West, a passenger car traveling southbound on 13th West stopped near the subject. The subject got into the car and the car continued southbound at a high rate of speed. Ms. Marquez described the male subject as being in his 20s with a dark complexion and short black hair. She said the subject was wearing black baggy trousers and a blue and black plaid flannel
shirt. She said she had not previously seen the subject in the neighborhood.

---------Then noted as a grey car (most likely primer) Could look white imo


I've had this theory for months!

[Aradia5]

Greetings, i am new here and this is my frist comment

frist i like to say that i have been watching and have been kept inform of this case from the beginning and that i myself have worked for both A T F and D E A and have delt with the underworld of drugs and druglords
so when i make a comment about a drug crime i know what i am talking about,,,

when i reviwed all the facts of this case it was clear to me and many of my friends that this crime or crimes was drug related and this child had nothing to do with the death the 2 victims and i found it a grate disgust how the local police was trying to say he did
ITA, but I don't discount some of the women involved.
You will only find a few on here that will disagree with you. lol

[Aradia5]

I've had this theory for months!

I know, I have discussed it with you many times. I always found your thoughts very plausible.

[ChildsVOICE]

At approximately 1145 hours, Officer Barmore interviewed Ms. Trujillo's daughter, Helen Marquez, at the same residence. Ms. Marquez said on the evening of 11/05/2008, after emergency units had arrived at the Romero home, she saw a male subject walking fast eastbound on W. ylh North. She said when the subject reached the corner of 13th West, a passenger car traveling southbound on 13th West stopped near the subject. The subject got into the car and the car continued southbound at a high rate of speed. Ms. Marquez described the male subject as being in his 20s with a dark complexion and short black hair. She said the subject was wearing black baggy trousers and a blue and black plaid flannel
shirt. She said she had not previously seen the subject in the neighborhood.

---------Then noted as a grey car (most likely primer) Could look white imo


So where was he while the emergency crews were there and while the police were checking out the house as the first responders?

could he have been in the RV? or other neighborhood shacks/garages, etc?

[IAMME]

So where was he while the emergency crews were there and while the police were checking out the house as the first responders?

could he have been in the RV? or other neighborhood shacks/garages, etc?

I dont know but I bet he needed new undies!

[ChildsVOICE]

At approximately 1145 hours, Officer Barmore interviewed Ms. Trujillo's daughter, Helen Marquez, at the same residence. Ms. Marquez said on the evening of 11/05/2008, after emergency units had arrived at the Romero home, she saw a male subject walking fast eastbound on W. ylh North. She said when the subject reached the corner of 13th West, a passenger car traveling southbound on 13th West stopped near the subject. The subject got into the car and the car continued southbound at a high rate of speed. Ms. Marquez described the male subject as being in his 20s with a dark complexion and short black hair. She said the subject was wearing black baggy trousers and a blue and black plaid flannel
shirt. She said she had not previously seen the subject in the neighborhood.

---------Then noted as a grey car (most likely primer) Could look white imo


I'm still :cursing: ! I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! DANG IT!

I'm going to mapquest the neighborhood and 13th street.

[ChildsVOICE]

I dont know but I bet he needed new undies!

I bet ya he didn't know the police station was only 7 blocks away!

AND that a cop lives just two doors down and she would be bookin it to her neighborhood!

So, I wonder if he was a local? Doesn't sound like it.

[IAMME]

Anyone else think it is HILARIOUS that so many refused to have their kid interviewed? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face....:tonguewag:

[Aradia5]

Anyone else think it is HILARIOUS that so many refused to have their kid interviewed? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face....:tonguewag:

I was rollin' :lol:

[IAMME]

Greetings, i am new here and this is my frist comment

frist i like to say that i have been watching and have been kept inform of this case from the beginning and that i myself have worked for both A T F and D E A and have delt with the underworld of drugs and druglords
so when i make a comment about a drug crime i know what i am talking about,,,

when i reviwed all the facts of this case it was clear to me and many of my friends that this crime or crimes was drug related and this child had nothing to do with the death the 2 victims and i found it a grate disgust how the local police was trying to say he did


Would you mind elaborating on that? What facts lead you to that opinion? I beleive you 100% I just would like more detail...

[Aradia5]

Oh ChildsVOICE!!!!

Officer Barmore interviewed Pabla Trujillo at her residence at Ms. Trujillo said she saw Christian Romero walking west on 7th North from the bus stop at approximately 1515 t0 1530 hours on 11/05/2008. She said Christian was alone and was wearing a backpack which she could not describe. She said she saw Christian enter the front yard of his home but did not see him enter the house. Ms. Trujillo said she was sitting in the front yard of her home at approximately 1700 to 1730 hours on the same evening when she saw Timothy Romans' truck drive north on 13th West, turn west on 8th North, turn south on 15th Place West and park in front of the Romero home. She did not see anyone exit the truck.

[ChildsVOICE]

Okay I am not sure why noone else is stating the part that was left out.....

"The SCTPD said John Andreas was somehow tied into Tim's illegal drug business and would know if someone was trying to kill Tim."

HMMMMMM

And what about the man seen leaving the area on foot very quickly that was picked up by the car that was primer gray and then SPED away???!!!!!!!?!?!!?!?!?!?


HMMMMM


Old primer could look white IMO

Why was the car primed? Was somebody expecting to have it painted ASAP?!

[ChildsVOICE]

:flamemad:Oh ChildsVOICE!!!!

Officer Barmore interviewed Pabla Trujillo at her residence at Ms. Trujillo said she saw Christian Romero walking west on 7th North from the bus stop at approximately 1515 t0 1530 hours on 11/05/2008. She said Christian was alone and was wearing a backpack which she could not describe. She said she saw Christian enter the front yard of his home but did not see him enter the house. Ms. Trujillo said she was sitting in the front yard of her home at approximately 1700 to 1730 hours on the same evening when she saw Timothy Romans' truck drive north on 13th West, turn west on 8th North, turn south on 15th Place West and park in front of the Romero home. She did not see anyone exit the truck.


As my mother would say "Jesus Crimany!"

I wonder how long the Prosecutors have been sitting on this little tid bit of INFORMATION???????!!!!!!!!!!! :flamemad:

[Aradia5]

:flamemad:


As my mother would say "Jesus Crimany!"

I wonder how long the Prosecutors have been sitting on this little tid bit of INFORMATION???????!!!!!!!!!!! :flamemad:

Report dated 11/18

[IAMME]

Why was the car primed? Was somebody expecting to have it painted ASAP?!


Primed with a red door, how many cars you ever seen like that that had hubcaps?

[bkwits]

I bet ya he didn't know the police station was only 7 blocks away!

AND that a cop lives just two doors down and she would be bookin it to her neighborhood!

So, I wonder if he was a local? Doesn't sound like it.

Det. Neckel? Not to worry.

:sad: Have a tummy ache can't sleep.

[IAMME]

Det. Neckel? Not to worry.

:sad: Have a tummy ache can't sleep.

I was just watching andy griffith, and ya know I do believe that EVEN Barney woulda caught on to most of this.....I can even imagine his "surprised" face and the fumble for his bullet while stammering " by goly andy they were both on 13th street, andy we gotta get right over there!!!"


I wonder if tanya will get a new family spokesperson now...lol

[Aradia5]

Det. Neckel? Not to worry.

:sad: Have a tummy ache can't sleep.

I just spit my soda, :lol:


What is the tummy ache from? :ohmy:

[Aradia5]

I was just watching andy griffith, and ya know I do believe that EVEN Barney woulda caught on to most of this.....I can even imagine his "surprised" face and the fumble for his bullet while stammering " by goly andy they were both on 13th street, andy we gotta get right over there!!!"

Thanks, I did it again. :blushing:

[ChildsVOICE]

Oh ChildsVOICE!!!!

Officer Barmore interviewed Pabla Trujillo at her residence at Ms. Trujillo said she saw Christian Romero walking west on 7th North from the bus stop at approximately 1515 t0 1530 hours on 11/05/2008. She said Christian was alone and was wearing a backpack which she could not describe. She said she saw Christian enter the front yard of his home but did not see him enter the house. Ms. Trujillo said she was sitting in the front yard of her home at approximately 1700 to 1730 hours on the same evening when she saw Timothy Romans' truck drive north on 13th West, turn west on 8th North, turn south on 15th Place West and park in front of the Romero home. She did not see anyone exit the truck.

I wonder if CR left again? The kids in my neighborhood do this when they are latchkey kids or kids that hate to go home or who have total freedom to rome the neighborhood. They will walk around awhile, try to see if any of their friends are home or outside playing and if they don't find anybody they may go back home check things out and then leave again. They don't even necessarily go into their houses.

He was on 7th street. TR and VR was on 13th street.

THAT's 6 blocks! Also, if he happened to be on 7th street while they were on 8th street that still explains why they didn't see each other.

I wish we knew the timing of when CR was in the front yard compared to the men coming home and also if he left again since nobody was home yet.

Seems to me that may be the case. He really sounds like he was exhibitting signs of a latchkey kid afraid to go home to an empty house. He was probably checking to see if anybody was home yet and when he saw they weren't then he may have left again.

Plus, I'd like to know when she saw CR in the front yard. How long before or after the men's arrival.

[ChildsVOICE]

Primed with a red door, how many cars you ever seen like that that had hubcaps?

Actually, quite a few around our town like that. Usually addicts have that type. They don't have their priorities straight.

But the boy said it didn't have any 'rims' that everyone is assuming he means 'hubcaps'. I haven't been reading the report does it say what color the hubcaps were? I'm assuming it's saying it had hubcaps.

[Aradia5]

At approximately 1030 hours, Neckel introduced Pinnow to Tiffany. Tiffany escorted Pinnow into the home to show Pinnow where .22 caliber ammunition was located within the home. Pinnow observed a pile of clothing inside the front entry door. Pinnow followed Tiffany up the stairs, observing a step on the first set of stairs without carpeting. On the second set of stairs, Pinnow observed no carpet on the upper steps and second floor landing. Pinnow observed removed paint on the lower east wall of the hallway. Tiffany showed Pinnow a blue-grey metal box in the master bedroom which contained the .22 caliber ammunition.

-------------How did they miss this?? Forget it, I know the answer. :angry:

[IAMME]

At approximately 1030 hours, Neckel introduced Pinnow to Tiffany. Tiffany escorted Pinnow into the home to show Pinnow where .22 caliber ammunition was located within the home. Pinnow observed a pile of clothing inside the front entry door. Pinnow followed Tiffany up the stairs, observing a step on the first set of stairs without carpeting. On the second set of stairs, Pinnow observed no carpet on the upper steps and second floor landing. Pinnow observed removed paint on the lower east wall of the hallway. Tiffany showed Pinnow a blue-grey metal box in the master bedroom which contained the .22 caliber ammunition.

-------------How did they miss this?? Forget it, I know the answer. :angry:

Why heck, why would they even need to look any more? They already HAD the box of 17s....:rolleyes:

[bkwits]

I just spit my soda, :lol:


What is the tummy ache from? :ohmy:


The Fosamax pill I took this morning. I should have taken some Zantac earlier. Oh well.

Did you notice that in the first part it said that CR was spanked with a belt. Well, I would call it whipped or beaten, if a belt is used.

IMO

[Aradia5]

Can anyone give me a link to where Officer Barmore interviewed...I'm still a bit behind.

I didn't see anymore links. Sorry!

[BobbisAngel]

I grew up down there. Everybody said, "I'm gonna kill you", but it wasn't a literal term. When I lived elsewhere, people looked at me funny when I said it. I finally stopped. Different expressions, different areas. Beleive me, I've lived all over.:wink:


I can remember when my kids were young they would get mad at me and say "I hate you" but never did they ever say "I'm going to kill you."
I think that is a very unhealthy thing for a child to say and mine are lucky that those words never came out of their mouths.

When my granddaughter was almost 5 years old she said "When I grow up I'm going to kill my dad." She said it because she was very very angry at her dad...why..because he murdered her mother. Now I can understand her saying that in anger because she really felt like that is what she wanted to do. Children saying that just because they get mad at mom or dad over some petty thing is scary to me.

It sounds like this boy said those words to his dad more than one time.
I don't blame his dad for slapping him. Who wants their child to say such a thing to a parent or anyone else! I think it is downright scary for a child to even think such a thing.

[IAMME]

I can remember when my kids were young they would get mad at me and say "I hate you" but never did they ever say "I'm going to kill you."
I think that is a very unhealthy thing for a child to say and mine are lucky that those words never came out of their mouths.

When my granddaughter was almost 5 years old she said "When I grow up I'm going to kill my dad." She said it because she was very very angry at her dad...why..because he murdered her mother. Now I can understand her saying that in anger because she really felt like that is what she wanted to do. Children saying that just because they get mad at mom or dad over some petty thing is scary to me.

It sounds like this boy said those words to his dad more than one time.
I don't blame his dad for slapping him. Who wants their child to say such a thing to a parent or anyone else! I think it is downright scary for a child to even think such a thing.


Don't believe everything you see on tv, at best most of those "reported" comments were second or third hand, if they were made at all, and like other ppl have stated, it is not all that odd for a kid to say such things when they are angry.

[mrrogers]

Thank you!!

it was a 44 magnum that was missing i think and tim was at the truck

[Aradia5]

Yes, I did. I would also like to know why Grandpa Leroy is running around telling people not to talk to the police. It seems he was more concerned about keeping his personal life out of it, than he is about protecting his Grandson. What kind of Grandpa does that?

Did you see about Leroy and Liz and Domestic Violence?

I do wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.

They open the door, and bones just come flying out.....

[wolfi_2]

1 the way the victims was shot, head and chest ,AN
enforcer will all way shoot in the chest frist then fallow to the head for a kill
2 there was a hand gun missing from the truck and the truck door was left open,, this would happen
if one of the victims heard gun shots coming from inside the house and armed him self and went running to check on the other victim AND THE WAPON WAS REMOVED FROM HIM AFTER HE WAS SHOT ,,IT IS NOT UNCOMMAN FOR AN ENFORCER TO DISARM THERE VICTIMS
3 one of the victims has a past of being a mid level drug pusher and was found with five 100 dollar bills in his clothing
i could go on and on but it would take to much time and space

thank´s great stuff!
I would like to see, that you go on!

[Aradia5]

On the video on the right at the end of it it says court this week is to see if CR can stay home with his mom.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/St-Johns-murder-reports-released-new-info-about/fOVJy2sP1kCOthT-AEZCsQ.cspx

or

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=19407@knxv.dayport.com