View Full Version : Custody resolved in Fisher/Young case.
Jester
02-07-2009, 03:31 PM
Why do you keep misrepresenting facts?
Jason's role has not been reduced to "specified visitation." GMAB.
I think you missed the second sentence in my comment. He has been reduced from primary caregiver to having specified visitation, and input into major decisions regarding Cassidy's care.
I think you missed the second sentence in my comment. He has been reduced from primary caregiver to having specified visitation, and input into major decisions regarding Cassidy's care.
Custody is a legal term, Jester, and Jason's custody is joint. His custody hasn't been reduced to "specified visitation."
Jester
02-07-2009, 03:38 PM
No she didn't. Linda did.
Linda is not Cassidy.
Hello.
I've linked the relevant documents a couple of times, and suggest you read them before arguing the contents.
paragraph 11: http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2008/11/5/young_document.pdf
Michelle Young was the mother of Cassidy Young, who is the beneficiary of the wrongful death suit.
The lead investigator thinks he killed Michelle, yet he is not a suspect ?
I guess i buy that.
He is not a suspect in the eyes of LE.
He is the killer.
Have fun splitting hairs on this beautiful Saturday.
I am out to enjoy the day.
Bye Bye
I wonder what will happen if the lead investigator states on a public document he thinks Meredith also killed Michelle. Ruh, roh if that happens!
Enjoy the day!
Jester
02-07-2009, 03:40 PM
Custody is a legal term, Jester, and Jason's custody is joint. His custody hasn't been reduced to "specified visitation."
I see. Jason has joint custody. That joint custody, specified in the order, states that his participation in raising Cassidy is now reduced to specified visitation with input in major decisions.
I've linked the relevant documents a couple of times, and suggest you read them before arguing the contents.
paragraph 11: http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2008/11/5/young_document.pdf
Michelle Young was the mother of Cassidy Young, who is the beneficiary of the wrongful death suit.
No, the Judge's ruling did not state anywhere on it that Cassidy Young is the beneficiary of the wrongful death claim, which was filed by the estate. The only "beneficiary" can be the estate.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 03:45 PM
Nope. It is Feb 10th. Just around the corner.:wink:Perhaps I misunderstood Mr. Cummings then.
I see. Jason has joint custody. That joint custody, specified in the order, states that his participation in raising Cassidy is now reduced to specified visitation with input in major decisions.
No, it doesn't. That's just more of your tiresome misrepresentation of real facts.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 03:49 PM
I wonder what will happen if the lead investigator states on a public document he thinks Meredith also killed Michelle. Ruh, roh if that happens!
Enjoy the day!
He didn't though, did he.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 03:51 PM
I've linked the relevant documents a couple of times, and suggest you read them before arguing the contents.
paragraph 11: http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2008/11/5/young_document.pdf
Michelle Young was the mother of Cassidy Young, who is the beneficiary of the wrongful death suit.
The WD suit pleads for the plaintiff (Linda) to have and recover from defandant compensatory and punitive damages in excess of $10k.
No, it doesn't. That's just more of your tiresome misrepresentation of real facts.
Meredith Fisher has PRIMARY physical custody, Jason has SECONDARY physical custody.
I'd say his time has been significantly reduced.
Jester
02-07-2009, 03:53 PM
No, it doesn't. That's just more of your tiresome misrepresentation of real facts.
It fine for you to disagree, but wouldn't it be more useful if you explained how your interpretation of the order differs from mine? I agree that it is joint custody, and summarize the order. What did I miss?
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 03:54 PM
The lead investigator thinks he killed Michelle, yet he is not a suspect ?
I guess i buy that.
He is not a suspect in the eyes of LE.
He is the killer.
Have fun splitting hairs on this beautiful Saturday.
I am out to enjoy the day.
Bye ByeYou have 2 links to provide to back your statements of fact or conceed they are not facts at all.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 03:54 PM
Custody is a legal term, Jester, and Jason's custody is joint. His custody hasn't been reduced to "specified visitation."
Who was awarded primary custody?
and could you please explain what all that entails??
TIA
Jester
02-07-2009, 03:55 PM
The WD suit pleads for the plaintiff (Linda) to have and recover from defandant compensatory and punitive damages in excess of $10k.
That does not negate paragraph 11 which states that Cassidy is the beneficiary of the wrongful death claim.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:10 PM
That does not negate paragraph 11 which states that Cassidy is the beneficiary of the wrongful death claim.It most certainly does. A pleading is not a determination by a court. Linda could have said the beneficiary of the WD suit was the man in the moon and it would not have affected the court's ruling which was just an iteration of statutes.
IOW the court did not rule that Cassidy was a beneficiary simply because Linda said so in her pleading. Probate laws and Michelle's Will will determine who the beneficiary is.
I suspect on first blush it appears as tho Cassidy will be the sole heir to Michelle's estate and that prompted, for some unknown reason, the inclusion of paragraph 11 in the pleading.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:11 PM
It fine for you to disagree, but wouldn't it be more useful if you explained how your interpretation of the order differs from mine? I agree that it is joint custody, and summarize the order. What did I miss?
THe whole concept of legal custody.
Meredith Fisher has PRIMARY physical custody, Jason has SECONDARY physical custody.
I'd say his time has been significantly reduced.
nonetheless, his legal standing has not been reduced to visitation only. Some of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the two legal terms are interchangeable.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:16 PM
Who was awarded primary custody?
and could you please explain what all that entails??
TIA
*sigh*
Physical custody is used to describe the person with whom the child lives on a day-to-day basis.
Legal custody is used to describe the person who has the right to make major decisions concerning the child, including decisions about the child's education, health care, and religious training.
Joint custody or shared custody means that both parents make the major decisions in the child's life. Minor day-to-day decisions such as bedtime or what the child will wear are up to the parent who is with the child at the time. Joint custody does not mean that a child must live half of the time with one parent and the other half with the other parent. It does mean that physical custody will be shared in such a way to ensure that the child has continuing contact with each parent. Usually, the court will specify with which parent the child will be primarily residing. Joint custody works best if parents can set aside their differences and discuss what is best for their child.
http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?statelaw_name=Custody&state_code=NC
It most certainly does. A pleading is not a determination by a court. Linda could have said the beneficiary of the WD suit was the man in the moon and it would not have affected the court's ruling which was just an iteration of statutes.
IOW the court did not rule that Cassidy was a beneficiary simply because Linda said so in her pleading. Probate laws and Michelle's Will will determine who the beneficiary is.
I suspect on first blush it appears as tho Cassidy will be the sole heir to Michelle's estate and that prompted, for some unknown reason, the inclusion of paragraph 11 in the pleading.
I think paragraph 11 was included with the hope the Judge would direct the LI into the estate so Fisher could gain control of it. He didn't do that.
Unless I missed it somehow, there's been no ruling on the damages aspect of the WDS.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 04:19 PM
nonetheless, his legal standing has not been reduced to visitation only. Some of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the two legal terms are interchangeable.
I'll agree with you on one thing and that's that Jason has joint custody.
But....his custody comes with a schedule and it is not PRIMARY, therefore, he is not in charge of decision making although he does have to be informed. The primary caretaker can make decisions for her such as: education, health care, extra curricular activities, and even location of residence among other things.
IMO
Jules2
02-07-2009, 04:21 PM
*sigh*
Physical custody is used to describe the person with whom the child lives on a day-to-day basis.
Legal custody is used to describe the person who has the right to make major decisions concerning the child, including decisions about the child's education, health care, and religious training.
Joint custody or shared custody means that both parents make the major decisions in the child's life. Minor day-to-day decisions such as bedtime or what the child will wear are up to the parent who is with the child at the time. Joint custody does not mean that a child must live half of the time with one parent and the other half with the other parent. It does mean that physical custody will be shared in such a way to ensure that the child has continuing contact with each parent. Usually, the court will specify with which parent the child will be primarily residing. Joint custody works best if parents can set aside their differences and discuss what is best for their child.
http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?statelaw_name=Custody&state_code=NC
Primary, alterEgo.
Explain primary
*sigh
I'll agree with you on one thing and that's that Jason has joint custody.
But....his custody comes with a schedule and it is not PRIMARY, therefore, he is not in charge of decision making although he does have to be informed. The primary caretaker can make decisions for her such as: education, health care, extra curricular activities, and even location of residence among other things.
IMO
You are confusing physical custody with legal custody. Please see AE's link above. Thanks.
nonetheless, his legal standing has not been reduced to visitation only. Some of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the two legal terms are interchangeable.
Who said that? Legal= he has say on the day to day raising of Cassidy. Physical= he has eow, summers and holidays.
Everyone understands that and I didn't see anyone arguing it.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:22 PM
Jules, Jason has a say so in those decisons. 'Legal custody' is a larger role than just being informed.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:25 PM
Primary, alterEgo.
Explain primary
*sigh
I will as soon as you get a good grasp of legal custody.
Baby steps.
Jules, Jason has a say so in those decisons. 'Legal custody' is a larger role than just being informed.
of course, a new "circumstance" will throw this entire custody thing into full tilt. What will it be? A new search warrant? A tip to CPS?
Jules2
02-07-2009, 04:36 PM
of course, a new "circumstance" will throw this entire custody thing into full tilt. What will it be? A new search warrant? A tip to CPS?
Since you haven't provide a link for any "new circumstance" , I'll go with what was worked out in the courts as what "it will be"
IMO
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:37 PM
of course, a new "circumstance" will throw this entire custody thing into full tilt. What will it be? A new search warrant? A tip to CPS?It will be interesting to see.....
jerry50
02-07-2009, 04:37 PM
nonetheless, his legal standing has not been reduced to visitation only. Some of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the two legal terms are interchangeable.
That's not as bad as all of the posters who were badly mistaken that the custody suit was filed in the incorrect county and that Linda wouldn't win custody under any circumstances.
No innocent man would give up custody of his daughter. JY knew from his lawyer that there was no way he would be able to avoid the deposition and would have to answer Linda's allegations. Giving up Cassidy was the only way he could remain silent. Maybe he took his lawyer's advice about not talking.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:37 PM
Since you haven't provide a link for any "new circumstance" , I'll go with what was worked out in the courts as what "it will be"
IMO:confused: huh :confused:
Jules2
02-07-2009, 04:39 PM
I will as soon as you get a good grasp of legal custody.
Baby steps.
Sorry, AE, I'm getting there, I promise!
But even with all this legal mumbo jumbo, what distresses me more than anything is the fact that a 5 year old's biological father was NOT given either full nor primary custody.
Makes me wonder why that was.
It will be interesting to see.....
and how long it takes....
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:41 PM
That's not as bad as all of the posters who were badly mistaken that the custody suit was filed in the incorrect county and that Linda wouldn't win custody under any circumstances.
snipped
uh, the parties conceeded that Wake County was the proper forum, since the Motion to Dismiss based on improper venue/COV was set aside as part of the custody order, we will never know how Sasser would have ruled.
News flash: Linda DID NOT get custody.
That's not as bad as all of the posters who were badly mistaken that the custody suit was filed in the incorrect county and that Linda wouldn't win custody under any circumstances.
No innocent man would give up custody of his daughter. JY knew from his lawyer that there was no way he would be able to avoid the deposition and would have to answer Linda's allegations. Giving up Cassidy was the only way he could remain silent. Maybe he took his lawyer's advice about not talking.
Linda didn't win custody.
Jason didn't give up custody and I don't blame him for taking his lawyer's advice. Especially if they know a "new circumstance" is on the horizon.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 04:46 PM
Linda didn't win custody.
Jason didn't give up custody and I don't blame him for taking his lawyer's advice. Especially if they know a "new circumstance" is on the horizon.
Let's just turn that statement around for the heck of it......
Maybe Meredith agreed to joint custody and not full custody because she knows of a "new circumstance" that's on the horizon.
IMO
Let's just turn that statement around for the heck of it......
Maybe Meredith agreed to joint custody and not full custody because she knows of a "new circumstance" that's on the horizon.
IMO
Custody wasn't something Meredith started with and I doubt she'll end with it, either.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:50 PM
Sorry, AE, I'm getting there, I promise!
But even with all this legal mumbo jumbo, what distresses me more than anything is the fact that a 5 year old's biological father was NOT given either full nor primary custody.
Makes me wonder why that was.It's in the order. Both parties agreed that it would be in Cassidy's best interest to live primarily with Meredith.
Why he agreed to that, we may never know. It could be to avoid even the remote possiblity that he could be deposed about the murder. It could be because he realizes how badly Cassidy needs a mother figure in her life that is closer in age to what Michelle was instead of the grandmother she has now.
It's in the order. Both parties agreed that it would be in Cassidy's best interest to live primarily with Meredith.
Why he agreed to that, we may never know. It could be to avoid even the remote possiblity that he could be deposed about the murder. It could be because he realizes how badly Cassidy needs a mother figure in her life that is closer in age to what Michelle was instead of the grandmother she has now.
the way I read it, the door is permanently closed for discovery/depositions for all parties, not just Jason.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 04:56 PM
the way I read it, the door is permanently closed for discovery/depositions for all parties, not just Jason.Yes, but only as they relate to the custody action filed by the Fishers.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 04:56 PM
It's in the order. Both parties agreed that it would be in Cassidy's best interest to live primarily with Meredith.
Why he agreed to that, we may never know. It could be to avoid even the remote possiblity that he could be deposed about the murder. It could be because he realizes how badly Cassidy needs a mother figure in her life that is closer in age to what Michelle was instead of the grandmother she has now.
You have to admit that it is a surprising outcome. Did you believe as of Thursday that Jason would relinquish custody of any kind? I believe we were told by some posters that Meredith and Linda wouldn't even get visitation much less custody. I'm happy with the outcome but I'm still surprised.
Yes, but only as they relate to the custody action filed by the Fishers.
Exactly. The door is closed. New circumstances means whatever comes to light from this point on.
Linda didn't win custody.
Jason didn't give up custody and I don't blame him for taking his lawyer's advice. Especially if they know a "new circumstance" is on the horizon.
She sure did!
You cannot grant PRIMARY physical custody to two people in two different states. Meredith is closer to Jason-obvious choice. Linda can move in with Meredith and spend every day with Cassidy now.
Jason did nothing to keep Cassidy with him full time. He was too worried about himself. Isn't it time for the bashing of the Fisher's to stop now? Its crystal clear who Jason cares about most. Jason.
She sure did!
You cannot grant PRIMARY physical custody to two people in two different states. Meredith is closer to Jason-obvious choice. Linda can move in with Meredith and spend every day with Cassidy now.
Jason did nothing to keep Cassidy with him full time. He was too worried about himself. Isn't it time for the bashing of the Fisher's to stop now? Its crystal clear who Jason cares about most. Jason.
No, Tia. Linda Fisher did not win custody. She can move in with Meredith but she won't have legal custody of CY.
Jason's decision was his to make and nowhere in it does he bash the Fishers. The bashing of Jason has been unrelentless and apparently you want to continue bashing Jason.
No, Tia. Linda Fisher did not win custody. She can move in with Meredith but she won't have legal custody of CY.
Jason's decision was his to make and nowhere in it does he bash the Fishers. The bashing of Jason has been unrelentless and apparently you want to continue bashing Jason.
Linda got exactly what she had prior to Michelle's murder, time with her grandchild. I know she doesn't have "custody" as defined in the agreement, but she can see her every day now.
I wasn't talking about Jason bashing the Fishers. And I was stating my opinion, which I am allowed to do here, that an innocent man would not have given up so easily.
If he did not murder Michelle, he would have fought. Had he fought, I can guarantee he would have won. This is HUGE that Meredith has Primary Custody.
Linda got exactly what she had prior to Michelle's murder, time with her grandchild. I know she doesn't have "custody" as defined in the agreement, but she can see her every day now.
I wasn't talking about Jason bashing the Fishers. And I was stating my opinion, which I am allowed to do here, that an innocent man would not have given up so easily.
If he did not murder Michelle, he would have fought. Had he fought, I can guarantee he would have won. This is HUGE that Meredith has Primary Custody.
Considering it has yet to take place, not so huge.
Linda can't see the child every day, she can only see her the days she's with Meredith.
My opinion is that a new circumstance is on the horizon that will toss this into the moot point file.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 05:14 PM
Linda got exactly what she had prior to Michelle's murder, time with her grandchild. I know she doesn't have "custody" as defined in the agreement, but she can see her every day now.
I wasn't talking about Jason bashing the Fishers. And I was stating my opinion, which I am allowed to do here, that an innocent man would not have given up so easily.
If he did not murder Michelle, he would have fought. Had he fought, I can guarantee he would have won. This is HUGE that Meredith has Primary Custody.
I agree 100%, Tia.
And no matter how the JII's try to spin it, it all boils down to the fact that Jason did not get full custody. There was a reason.... a reason we may not know for a long time to come, but an innocent man who loves his child with all his heart just doesn't go down without a fight.
There was no fight as far as I can see.
IMO
Jules2
02-07-2009, 05:15 PM
Considering it has yet to take place, not so huge.
Linda can't see the child every day, she can only see her the days she's with Meredith.
My opinion is that a new circumstance is on the horizon that will toss this into the moot point file.
Exactly!
When Jason is arrested for the murder of his wife, Meredith will gain full custody.
IMO
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 05:18 PM
You have to admit that it is a surprising outcome. Did you believe as of Thursday that Jason would relinquish custody of any kind? I believe we were told by some posters that Meredith and Linda wouldn't even get visitation much less custody. I'm happy with the outcome but I'm still surprised.Yup, it is surprising. Had a court held a trial, it's possible the Fishers would not have gotten anything.
There are some contending that Jason only agreed to the custody order to save himself from the possibility of being deposed. While that is a possibility, the order clearly states that the concessions were made with only Cassidy's best interests in mind. I know for a fact it's hard to admit you (not you personally) can't provide the best possible home life for your child as another relative can.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 05:18 PM
Exactly!
When Jason is arrested for the murder of his wife, Meredith will gain full custody.
IMO
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Exactly!
When Jason is arrested for the murder of his wife, Meredith will gain full custody.
IMO
She sure will! Judges do not like to move a child once custody is "settled". And no judge will want Cassidy going back to the "slayers" home town. Imagine how awful her life will be there.
jerry50
02-07-2009, 05:22 PM
Considering it has yet to take place, not so huge.
Linda can't see the child every day, she can only see her the days she's with Meredith.
My opinion is that a new circumstance is on the horizon that will toss this into the moot point file.
If today's opinion is as accurate as your last hundred or so opinions it will be clear sailing for Linda and Meredith. Thanks for the reassurance.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 05:27 PM
If today's opinion is as accurate as your last hundred or so opinions it will be clear sailing for Linda and Meredith. Thanks for the reassurance.
I agree, jerry50. For as long as I have been posting here, I'm still watching for things to go in Jason's favor. So far they have not.
alterEgo©
02-07-2009, 05:28 PM
She sure will! Judges do not like to move a child once custody is "settled". And no judge will want Cassidy going back to the "slayers" home town. Imagine how awful her life will be there.
:confused: Jason still has full primary custody of Cassidy and his times of custody will be in his hometown. So a judge already ruled that Cassidy is indeed 'going back to the "slayers" home town'.
:confused: Jason still has full primary custody of Cassidy and his times of custody will be in his hometown. So a judge already ruled that Cassidy is indeed 'going back to the "slayers" home town'.
He has SECONDARY PHYSICAL CUSTODY. I am talking about after he is arrested for Michelle's murder. Imagine how difficult life would be for her in Brevard.
Exactly!
When Jason is arrested for the murder of his wife, Meredith will gain full custody.
IMO
and that arrest is going to take place when? LOL
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 05:35 PM
<snipped>
Jason's decision was his to make and nowhere in it does he bash the Fishers. The bashing of Jason has been unrelentless and apparently you want to continue bashing Jason.
Nowhere do the Fishers bash Jason either. The bashing of the Fishers on this board has been relentless! as opposed to the 'unrelentless' bashing that you have witnessed regarding Jason. IMO
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 05:36 PM
and that arrest is going to take place when? LOL
I believe it's on the horizon.
I agree, jerry50. For as long as I have been posting here, I'm still watching for things to go in Jason's favor. So far they have not.
He hasn't been arrested, has he?
Nowhere do the Fishers bash Jason either. The bashing of the Fishers on this board has been relentless! as opposed to the 'unrelentless' bashing that you have witnessed regarding Jason. IMO
I have seen attempts to discuss whether the Fishers are involved in Michelle's murder and also whether they are suitable as caregivers. Is that bashing? I don't believe so.
Tacori
02-07-2009, 05:43 PM
He has SECONDARY PHYSICAL CUSTODY. I am talking about after he is arrested for Michelle's murder. Imagine how difficult life would be for her in Brevard.
You're right, Tia.
Here's a good explanation of what that is.
Secondary Physical Custody - NC
When the minor child(ren) is actually residing or living with the one parent, but the other parent has the minor child(ren) during visitation then it can be said that the other parent is exercising his/her secondary physical custody. This is often referred to as either visitation or custodial time.
http://www.mtlaw.net/child-custody/secondary-physical-custody.php
A common arrangement gives both parents joint legal custody with one parent having primary physical custody and the other parent having secondary physical custody for the purpose of visitation.
http://www.mtlaw.net/child-custody.php
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 05:43 PM
Considering it has yet to take place, not so huge.
Linda can't see the child every day, she can only see her the days she's with Meredith.
My opinion is that a new circumstance is on the horizon that will toss this into the moot point file.
I'd say it's a pretty good bet that a new circumstance is on the horizon - probably the arrest of JY.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 05:48 PM
He hasn't been arrested, has he?
No, but he's 0 for 2 with the legal system at the moment, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
Yup, it is surprising. Had a court held a trial, it's possible the Fishers would not have gotten anything.
There are some contending that Jason only agreed to the custody order to save himself from the possibility of being deposed. While that is a possibility, the order clearly states that the concessions were made with only Cassidy's best interests in mind. I know for a fact it's hard to admit you (not you personally) can't provide the best possible home life for your child as another relative can.
It's also hard for someone suspected of murder to make a case the other relative is unfit. Jason's protecting himself. Plenty others out there who can protect the child on his behalf.
No, but he's 0 for 2 with the legal system at the moment, so I wouldn't hang my hat on that.
He agreed to the custody arrangment. I'm hanging my hat on his attorney, thanks.
I'd say it's a pretty good bet that a new circumstance is on the horizon - probably the arrest of JY.
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 05:58 PM
He agreed to the custody arrangment. I'm hanging my hat on his attorney, thanks.
You mean Ms. Stubbs' law firm - the one that negotiated the custody arrangement in which Jason no longer has primary physical custody of his child? Hmmm.....sounds like they might see the wisdom of cutting one's losses.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:00 PM
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
Oh, I get it. You think Jason agreed to give primary physical custody of his child to the woman who killed his wife/her sister? He's going to risk his child that way? Ooookay.
You mean Ms. Stubbs' law firm - the one that negotiated the custody arrangement in which Jason no longer has primary physical custody of his child? Hmmm.....sounds like they might see the wisdom of cutting one's losses.
Jason still has primary physical custody until August 1. A lot can happen between now and then.
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
Oh. My. God.
Of all the twists I expected, I never saw this one comin'!
Okay, I'm outta here for a while! If I keep reading and responding, I will wind up getting myself in trouble.
Oh, I get it. You think Jason agreed to give primary physical custody of his child to the woman who killed his wife/her sister? He's going to risk his child that way? Ooookay.
It's never been Jason's responsibility to prove Meredith killed Michelle, has it? If the state believes the child is at risk, they have a duty to protect her, don't they?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:05 PM
It's never been Jason's responsibility to prove Meredith killed Michelle, has it? If the state believes the child is at risk, they have a duty to protect her, don't they?
Yes, they do. The State, however, just signed off on a custody agreement that gives Meredith primary physical custody and joint legal custody of Cassidy. Which tells me what they believe.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 06:07 PM
It's also hard for someone suspected of murder to make a case the other relative is unfit. Jason's protecting himself. Plenty others out there who can protect the child on his behalf.
Finally, you are starting to get it. Jason was looking out for himself, not CY, but himself. IMO, that is the character flaw that set this whole situation in motion. Jason only looks after and cares about Jason.
And yes, if it makes it easier to deal with, the Fishers will look out for CY on his behalf.
(IMO only)
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:07 PM
Oh. My. God.
Of all the twists I expected, I never saw this one comin'!
Okay, I'm outta here for a while! If I keep reading and responding, I will wind up getting myself in trouble.
Bye, Tia. You know, you have to admire delusion when it's that creative, don't you think?
Yes, they do. The State, however, just signed off on a custody agreement that gives Meredith primary physical custody and joint legal custody of Cassidy. Which tells me what they believe.
The State had no reason not to sign off. Which is also why the "change in circumstances" clause was inserted.
5swab5
02-07-2009, 06:10 PM
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
SNoooooooooRT!
OOPS, ETA MOO, ROTFLMAO!
Finally, you are starting to get it. Jason was looking out for himself, not CY, but himself. IMO, that is the character flaw that set this whole situation in motion. Jason only looks after and cares about Jason.
And yes, if it makes it easier to deal with, the Fishers will look out for CY on his behalf.
(IMO only)
Absolutely Jason was looking out for himself. To avoid being railroaded for a crime he didn't commit is quite an incentive. Plenty of others standing in the wings to look out for CY.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 06:12 PM
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
LOL…..I have to apologize. All this time I thought you were serious. Now I see that this is just your sense of humor. That was a good one. Everyone needs a good laugh to stay healthy (IMO)……Thanks for giving me my daily dose of humor.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:13 PM
The State had no reason not to sign off. Which is also why the "change in circumstances" clause was inserted.
No, they didn't. They didn't even have a friend of the court brief filed by the DA to make the State aware that Meredith was going to be arrested so that Wake County isn't liable for putting a 4-year-old child at risk.
LOL…..I have to apologize. All this time I thought you were serious. Now I see that this is just your sense of humor. That was a good one. Everyone needs a good laugh to stay healthy (IMO)……Thanks for giving me my daily dose of humor.
oh, no, I'm quite serious. I saw quite a bit of speculation early on several forums that maybe the motive was that Meredith learned about Michelle's Will giving custody to Jason's sister and maybe that made her fly into a rage and kill Michelle. That was quite a leap to make back then. Now that Meredith has achieved custody, that motive is more believable to me now.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:20 PM
oh, no, I'm quite serious. I saw quite a bit of speculation early on several forums that maybe the motive was that Meredith learned about Michelle's Will giving custody to Jason's sister and maybe that made her fly into a rage and kill Michelle. That was quite a leap to make back then. Now that Meredith has achieved custody, that motive is more believable to me now.
Sorry, doesn't fly. Michelle's will only give custody to Heather if Jason predeceases Michelle. For that to work as a motive, Meredith would have had to kill Jason, then Michelle.
No, they didn't. They didn't even have a friend of the court brief filed by the DA to make the State aware that Meredith was going to be arrested so that Wake County isn't liable for putting a 4-year-old child at risk.
The child wasn't in Meredith's custody when the Judge signed the order, was she? The child still isn't in Meredith's physical custody, is she?
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 06:21 PM
oh, no, I'm quite serious. I saw quite a bit of speculation early on several forums that maybe the motive was that Meredith learned about Michelle's Will giving custody to Jason's sister and maybe that made her fly into a rage and kill Michelle. That was quite a leap to make back then. Now that Meredith has achieved custody, that motive is more believable to me now.
OMG.... you just made me spit hot tea thru my nose and onto my keyboard.
Sorry, doesn't fly. Michelle's will only give custody to Heather if Jason predeceases Michelle. For that to work as a motive, Meredith would have had to kill Jason, then Michelle.
It does fly for me. The WDS ruling does say Jason predeceases Michelle so actual murder of Jason isn't necessary at this point. Michelle wanted Heather to care for CY. Meredith sure shows Michelle, eh?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:26 PM
The child wasn't in Meredith's custody when the Judge signed the order, was she? The child still isn't in Meredith's physical custody, is she?
Doesn't change the potential liability. Suppose Jason is killed in an auto accident tomorrow, due to speeding on a curve or something. Custody would immediately go to Meredith. The DA can't afford to attach that kind of liability to Wake County, not if he wants to keep his job.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:27 PM
It does fly for me. The WDS ruling does say Jason predeceases Michelle so actual murder of Jason isn't necessary at this point. Michelle wanted Heather to care for CY. Meredith sure shows Michelle, eh?
The WDS ruling supposes that Jason predeceased Michelle for purposes of inheritance only. Custody is an entirely different statute. If not, the will would have been raised as an issue by Ms. Stubbs, IMO.
Doesn't change the potential liability. Suppose Jason is killed in an auto accident tomorrow, due to speeding on a curve or something. Custody would immediately go to Meredith. The DA can't afford to attach that kind of liability to Wake County, not if wants to keep his job.
That's exactly right and I don't see the DA remaining silent.
If Jason is killed, that's a major change in circumstance. Custody would not automatically go to Meredith.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 06:34 PM
This custody agreement puts Meredith closer to an arrest, not Jason.
Oh please ... excuse me for not putting much stock in your interpretation of legal documentation we've had sight of but you've been so way off the mark to date, I think I'll rather rely on my non-American legal knowledge and logic.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:35 PM
That's exactly right and I don't see the DA remaining silent.
If Jason is killed, that's a major change in circumstance. Custody would not automatically go to Meredith.
It would until a change in circumstance action could be filed and heard. Nope, the DA isn't going to take that kind of chance.
The WDS ruling supposes that Jason predeceased Michelle for purposes of inheritance only. Custody is an entirely different statute. If not, the will would have been raised as an issue by Ms. Stubbs, IMO.
No issues were raised. The custody arrangment was reached by agreement. I think Ms. Stubbs is better versed in strategy than you seem to be.
It would until a change in circumstance action could be filed and heard. Nope, the DA isn't going to take that kind of chance.
How many times do I have to say I agree the DA isn't going to take that kind of chance? I look for a change in circumstance shortly. Either on the part of the DA or LE.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:38 PM
No issues were raised. The custody arrangment was reached by agreement. I think Ms. Stubbs is better versed in strategy than you seem to be.
Her strategy was to advise her client to give up plenary custody of his daughter. If she had knowledge of a change in circumstance on the horizon, Jason has a slam dunk malpractice case.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:39 PM
How many times do I have to say I agree the DA isn't going to take that kind of chance? I look for a change in circumstance shortly. Either on the part of the DA or LE.
Oh, we agree on that. I look for a change in circumstance in the near future, too. Just not the same one you're looking for.
Oh please ... excuse me for not putting much stock in your interpretation of legal documentation we've had sight of but you've been so way off the mark to date, I think I'll rather rely on my non-American legal knowledge and logic.
Way off the mark? Fact is, Jason hasn't been arrested. Feel free to continue to rely on your non-American legal knowledge and logic. Frankly, it's too convoluted for me to consider.
Her strategy was to advise her client to give up plenary custody of his daughter. If she had knowledge of a change in circumstance on the horizon, Jason has a slam dunk malpractice case.
ah, that's great that you are a lawyer. Jason took his lawyer's advice. Please explain how that is that grounds for malpractice. Thanks.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 06:46 PM
Way off the mark? Fact is, Jason hasn't been arrested. Feel free to continue to rely on your non-American legal knowledge and logic. Frankly, it's too convoluted for me to consider.
More often than not, my opinion and speculation has proven to be the way things have worked out - even if it took a convoluted process (in your opinion) to get there. You, on the other hand, seem to have a hard time getting even close in your guesses as to what the outcome will be.
Didn't notice that I alleged Jason had been arrested - merely said I believe he will so don't try to twist things.
More often than not, my opinion and speculation has proven to be the way things have worked out - even if it took a convoluted process (in your opinion) to get there. You, on the other hand, seem to have a hard time getting even close in your guesses as to what the outcome will be.
Didn't notice that I alleged Jason had been arrested - merely said I believe he will so don't try to twist things.
You're the one attempting to twist what I've stated as my opinion.
My "guess" has always been that Jason is innocent and so far he hasn't been arrested.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 06:53 PM
ah, that's great that you are a lawyer. Jason took his lawyer's advice. Please explain how that is that grounds for malpractice. Thanks.
I've never claimed to be an attorney. But I know what I know through experience. Advising a client to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a poor strategy for any reason other than that the client stood to loose custody based upon the facts in evidence, and that's an actionable malpractice claim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_malpractice
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 06:59 PM
You're the one attempting to twist what I've stated as my opinion.
My "guess" has always been that Jason is innocent and so far he hasn't been arrested.
BS. You claimed Linda would lose the WDS and that the custody case would be dismissed and, if not dismissed, Jason would retain custody because the Fishers had no grounds to deprive him of his daughter. Your other guess that Meredith is guilty hasn't proven to be correct either and, imo and that of the majority of posters here and elsewhere on the www, she will not be arrested either. JY, however, I believe will be and it is m.o. he'll be found guilty too. I'll also predict that he'll remain mute during the criminal trial too, ie: he will not take the stand and, yes, I understand that nothing is to be inferred by that action.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:01 PM
BS. You claimed Linda would lose the WDS and that the custody case would be dismissed and, if not dismissed, Jason would retain custody because the Fishers had no grounds to deprive him of his daughter. Your other guess that Meredith is guilty hasn't proven to be correct either and, imo and that of the majority of posters here and elsewhere on the www, she will not be arrested either. JY, however, I believe will be and it is m.o. he'll be found guilty too. I'll also predict that he'll remain mute during the criminal trial too, ie: he will not take the stand and, yes, I understand that nothing is to be inferred by that action.
Nice summary, Leanne. :)
I've never claimed to be an attorney. But I know what I know through experience. Advising a client to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a poor strategy for any reason other than that the client stood to loose custody based upon the facts in evidence, and that's an actionable malpractice claim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_malpractice
If you are going to keep tossing out legal terms, is it too much to ask that you use them correctly?
Here is the legal definition of "plenary" for your enlightenment. We all know Jason didn't give up full custody of his child.
Plenary means characterized by being full and complete in every respect.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plenary/
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:05 PM
If you are going to keep tossing out legal terms, is it too much to ask that you use them correctly?
Here is the legal definition of "plenary" for your enlightenment. We all know Jason didn't give up full custody of his child.
Plenary means characterized by being full and complete in every respect.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plenary/
I'm quite aware of the definition of "plenary". "Full and complete in every respect" does NOT include having to obtain Meredith's agreement regarding decisions regarding Cassidy's health, education and welfare, nor does it include being told by a legal agreement on what days one can spend time with one's child.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:06 PM
Nice summary, Leanne. :)
Thanks Card. I'm simply astounded that people will try to spin what is a basic and simple settlement agreement into something that is not only convoluted but bears out their contempt and dislike (putting that mildly) for Cassidy's maternal family. I'd have thought that after the gruesome murder of Michelle, people would be happy that an arrangement has been reached whereby she can know, love and spend time with both sides of her family. Maybe that was hoping for too much.
BS. You claimed Linda would lose the WDS and that the custody case would be dismissed and, if not dismissed, Jason would retain custody because the Fishers had no grounds to deprive him of his daughter. Your other guess that Meredith is guilty hasn't proven to be correct either and, imo and that of the majority of posters here and elsewhere on the www, she will not be arrested either. JY, however, I believe will be and it is m.o. he'll be found guilty too. I'll also predict that he'll remain mute during the criminal trial too, ie: he will not take the stand and, yes, I understand that nothing is to be inferred by that action.
I never claimed Linda would lose the WDS. She hasn't won anything tangible yet, though.
Jason did retain custody. Linda Fisher does not have custody and neither Fisher has yet deprived him of his daughter.
My guess that Meredith is guilty is no different than your guess that Jason is guilty. It's an opinion. I'm entitled to express it without you twisting it. Thanks.
I'm quite aware of the definition of "plenary". "Full and complete in every respect" does NOT include having to obtain Meredith's agreement regarding decisions regarding Cassidy's health, education and welfare, nor does it include being told by a legal agreement on what days one can spend time with one's child.
Now that you're aware of the definition, please use it correctly. Thanks.
You stated "Advising a client to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a poor strategy for any reason other than that the client stood to loose custody based upon the facts in evidence, and that's an actionable malpractice claim."
I bet Ms. Stubbs is comfortable with her "strategy" and so is Jason.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Thanks Card. I'm simply astounded that people will try to spin what is a basic and simple settlement agreement into something that is not only convoluted but bears out their contempt and dislike (putting that mildly) for Cassidy's maternal family. I'd have thought that after the gruesome murder of Michelle, people would be happy that an arrangement has been reached whereby she can know, love and spend time with both sides of her family. Maybe that was hoping for too much.
Sadly, I'm not astounded, Leanne. I am, however, very pleased that Cassidy will be spending time (an amazing amount thereof) with Meredith and Linda, and will learn about her mother through the knowledge they can share with her. And I am also pleased that she will not be estranged from her paternal family as she has been from her maternal one.
If others can't share in the joy of that for Cassidy, it's their loss, IMO.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Now that you're aware of the definition, please use it correctly. Thanks.
You stated "Advising a client to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a poor strategy for any reason other than that the client stood to loose custody based upon the facts in evidence, and that's an actionable malpractice claim."
I bet Ms. Stubbs is comfortable with her "strategy" and so is Jason.
I did use it correctly, thank you. And I still say if advising Jason to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a "strategy" to await Meredith's arrest, Jason has a slam dunk malpractice case IMO.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:15 PM
I never claimed Linda would lose the WDS. She hasn't won anything tangible yet, though.
Jason did retain custody. Linda Fisher does not have custody and neither Fisher has yet deprived him of his daughter.
My guess that Meredith is guilty is no different than your guess that Jason is guilty. It's an opinion. I'm entitled to express it without you twisting it. Thanks.
Linda has won something tangible. She has ensured that the $1million will never go to Jason - that's a big win and she has had JLY named the slayer of her daughter, albeit in a civil court.
Jason has lost the vast majority of his custody to the Fishers, as claimed in my post to which you replied. If it pleases your heart to live in a world of delusion that this settlement was not a loss for Jy, then go ahead - if he really loves his daughter and she's the centre of his world, I doubt he's agree with you.
Your guess that Meredith is guilty is not based on any real evidence - only on your perception of a 911 call, an outdated website where you chose to ascribe a nefarious interpretation to a very innocuous word and the mention of a set of keys and the possible removal of Cassidy from the crime scene. The JDIs, however, have a whole lot more to base their guess that he is guilty on but, as you say, you are entitled to your opinion and, quite obviously, I don't have to twist anything.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Now that you're aware of the definition, please use it correctly. Thanks.
You stated "Advising a client to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a poor strategy for any reason other than that the client stood to loose custody based upon the facts in evidence, and that's an actionable malpractice claim."
I bet Ms. Stubbs is comfortable with her "strategy" and so is Jason.
I bet General Custer was comfortable with his "stretegy" too, right up until the time he and his troops were killed. IMO
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:19 PM
Linda has won something tangible. She has ensured that the $1million will never go to Jason - that's a big win and she has had JLY named the slayer of her daughter, albeit in a civil court.
~snipped for emphasis~
Linda has won something much more tangible - and intangible - than that, Leanne.
She has won, through Meredith's custody of Cassidy, nearly unlimited access to her beloved granddaughter.
I did use it correctly, thank you. And I still say if advising Jason to give up plenary custody of his daughter is a "strategy" to await Meredith's arrest, Jason has a slam dunk malpractice case IMO.
Again, Jason didn't "give up" custody, he agreed to share it.
Meredith's arrest will be a slam dunk circumstance to change the Judge's mind.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:28 PM
Again, Jason didn't "give up" custody, he agreed to share it.
Meredith's arrest will be a slam dunk circumstance to change the Judge's mind.
Agreeing to give up plenary custody, which was his by law, is a loss, no matter how you spin it.
And I hope you don't mind if I don't hold my breath waiting for Meredith's arrest.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 07:31 PM
Again, Jason didn't "give up" custody, he agreed to share it.
Meredith's arrest will be a slam dunk circumstance to change the Judge's mind.
Who is going to arrest her? The cops have already given a sworn affidavit saying that Jason is the killer. Why would they change their minds now?
Linda has won something tangible. She has ensured that the $1million will never go to Jason - that's a big win and she has had JLY named the slayer of her daughter, albeit in a civil court.
Jason has lost the vast majority of his custody to the Fishers, as claimed in my post to which you replied. If it pleases your heart to live in a world of delusion that this settlement was not a loss for Jy, then go ahead - if he really loves his daughter and she's the centre of his world, I doubt he's agree with you.
Your guess that Meredith is guilty is not based on any real evidence - only on your perception of a 911 call, an outdated website where you chose to ascribe a nefarious interpretation to a very innocuous word and the mention of a set of keys and the possible removal of Cassidy from the crime scene. The JDIs, however, have a whole lot more to base their guess that he is guilty on but, as you say, you are entitled to your opinion and, quite obviously, I don't have to twist anything.
Leanne, please stop misrepresenting my posts and accusing me of posting stuff on other websites.
Jason has not lost the "vast majority of his custody to the Fishers" as anybody with a brain who reads the Order can see for themselves.
Why do you need to continually misrepresent the facts?
My opinion that Meredith is guilty is based on the 911 call, which is 'real' evidence as are her inconsistent statements mentioned in search warrants.
Agreeing to give up plenary custody, which was his by law, is a loss, no matter how you spin it.
And I hope you don't mind if I don't hold my breath waiting for Meredith's arrest.
He didn't agree to give up plenary custody, he agreed to share custody. His parental rights, which he has by law, are still fully intact.
I hope you don't mind if I don't hold my breath while you pretend to be a lawyer.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 07:40 PM
Leanne, please stop misrepresenting my posts and accusing me of posting stuff on other websites.
Jason has not lost the "vast majority of his custody to the Fishers" as anybody with a brain who reads the Order can see for themselves.
Why do you need to continually misrepresent the facts?
My opinion that Meredith is guilty is based on the 911 call, which is 'real' evidence as are her inconsistent statements mentioned in search warrants.
LOL.....OMG you are killing me. This is so funny.:lol:
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:42 PM
He didn't agree to give up plenary custody, he agreed to share custody. His parental rights, which he has by law, are still fully intact.
I hope you don't mind if I don't hold my breath while you pretend to be a lawyer.
I'm not pretending to be anything. I stated quite clearly, if you can read, that I'm not an attorney. And I've not said anything about Jason's parental rights, which were never at issue in this custody matter.
They will likely, however, be at issue if Jason is convicted of Michelle's murder.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:43 PM
Leanne, please stop misrepresenting my posts and accusing me of posting stuff on other websites.
Jason has not lost the "vast majority of his custody to the Fishers" as anybody with a brain who reads the Order can see for themselves.
Why do you need to continually misrepresent the facts?
My opinion that Meredith is guilty is based on the 911 call, which is 'real' evidence as are her inconsistent statements mentioned in search warrants.
I've misrepresented nothing, nor have I accused you of posting stuff on other websites.
He has lost the vast majority of his custody imo. From having fulltime custody he now has limited physical custody with Meredith being the primary custodian.
Yes, the 911 call is real evidence - real evidence that a brutal murder had taken place - that it makes Meredith a suspect is only your interpretation of it.
Again, in case you didn't get it the first time I posted it above, I have not misrepresented your posts or facts.
Who is going to arrest her? The cops have already given a sworn affidavit saying that Jason is the killer. Why would they change their minds now?
Don't cops make arrests or has that changed? The cops collectively didn't already give a sworn statement, only one investigator gave his opinion two months ago. Circumstances can change, can't they?
There just might be another cop who, based on more recent evidence analysis, has concluded Meredith is guilty and has tried to frame Jason. :wink:
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:45 PM
LOL.....OMG you are killing me. This is so funny.:lol:
Our comedy relief for the day.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 07:48 PM
Our comedy relief for the day.
And every day. :D
FWIW, Leanne, I really appreciate your experience and knowledge in the matters discussed on this board.
And I agree, Jason has lost the vast majority of his custody of Cassidy.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 07:49 PM
Don't cops make arrests or has that changed? The cops collectively didn't already give a sworn statement, only one investigator gave his opinion two months ago. Circumstances can change, can't they?
There just might be another cop who, based on more recent evidence analysis, has concluded Meredith is guilty and has tried to frame Jason. :wink:
If you’re not going to discuss this seriously then I see no need to continue. A little of your humor is all I can take for one day. Good evening all.
I've misrepresented nothing, nor have I accused you of posting stuff on other websites.
He has lost the vast majority of his custody imo. From having fulltime custody he now has limited physical custody with Meredith being the primary custodian.
Yes, the 911 call is real evidence - real evidence that a brutal murder had taken place - that it makes Meredith a suspect is only your interpretation of it.
Again, in case you didn't get it the first time I posted it above, I have not misrepresented your posts or facts.
Here is your post:
Your guess that Meredith is guilty is not based on any real evidence - only on your perception of a 911 call, an outdated website where you chose to ascribe a nefarious interpretation to a very innocuous word and the mention of a set of keys and the possible removal of Cassidy from the crime scene.
It is a fact that I've never mentioned another website or keys or removal of Cassidy. Frankly, I have no idea what you are talking about and it really is too bad you can't show other posters the same respect for differing opinions that is shown to you. :no:
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:55 PM
And every day. :D
FWIW, Leanne, I really appreciate your experience and knowledge in the matters discussed on this board.
And I agree, Jason has lost the vast majority of his custody of Cassidy.
Thanks Card. I wonder how Jason's family are feeling this weekend knowing that in 5 months time they'll only be seeing Cassidy every 2nd weekend, bar his allotted holidays. I'd imagine my kids wouldn't be the top of my hit parade if they didn't put up a vigorous fight for my grandchildren if ever faced with a custody suit, irrespective of what crimes they may be trying to hide.
I bet there's a lot of talk (probably behind JY's back) within the family of what will happen if and when he is arrested. I bet they're nervous about how much of a fight they'll have to put up to see Cassidy given how the Fishers have been treated for the last 27 months. However, I don't believe L&M would deprive Cassidy of a relationship with them.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 07:59 PM
Here is your post:
Your guess that Meredith is guilty is not based on any real evidence - only on your perception of a 911 call, an outdated website where you chose to ascribe a nefarious interpretation to a very innocuous word and the mention of a set of keys and the possible removal of Cassidy from the crime scene.
It is a fact that I've never mentioned another website or keys or removal of Cassidy. Frankly, I have no idea what you are talking about and it really is too bad you can't show other posters the same respect for differing opinions that is shown to you. :no:
Really, the keys on Michelle's car and not on the kitchen counter and the speculation that Cassidy had been driven around after the murder... oh yes and "high" proves Meredith had a drug problem.
Talking about respect, it is earned - not just handed out willy nilly.
If you’re not going to discuss this seriously then I see no need to continue. A little of your humor is all I can take for one day. Good evening all.
Have a nice evening!
You weren't discussing the case seriously in this post, were you?
Originally Posted by BSNBREVARDNC
LOL.....OMG you are killing me. This is so funny. :lol:
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:04 PM
Thanks Card. I wonder how Jason's family are feeling this weekend knowing that in 5 months time they'll only be seeing Cassidy every 2nd weekend, bar his allotted holidays. I'd imagine my kids wouldn't be the top of my hit parade if they didn't put up a vigorous fight for my grandchildren if ever faced with a custody suit, irrespective of what crimes they may be trying to hide.
I bet there's a lot of talk (probably behind JY's back) within the family of what will happen if and when he is arrested. I bet they're nervous about how much of a fight they'll have to put up to see Cassidy given how the Fishers have been treated for the last 27 months. However, I don't believe L&M would deprive Cassidy of a relationship with them.
This is what I think:
I think the negotiations in the custody settlement were primarily centered around the bad feelings between Jason and Linda, that probably precede Michelle's death.
I think Jason trusts Meredith to provide a good, caring home for Cassidy, and to respect the terms of the custody agreement. Especially the terms regarding the time with Cassidy for Jason and his family.
That said, I think this is very difficult for Jason, Pat, Heather and Kim. I believe they truly love Cassidy. But I also believe they recognized that their financial and emotional resources needed to be reserved for Jason's criminal trial.
FWIW and JMO
Really, the keys on Michelle's car and not on the kitchen counter and the speculation that Cassidy had been driven around after the murder... oh yes and "high" proves Meredith had a drug problem.
Talking about respect, it is earned - not just handed out willy nilly.
I never said any of that. I'll repeat my request: please stop misrepresenting my posts.
:no:
This is what I think:
I think the negotiations in the custody settlement were primarily centered around the bad feelings between Jason and Linda, that probably precede Michelle's death.
I think Jason trusts Meredith to provide a good, caring home for Cassidy, and to respect the terms of the custody agreement. Especially the terms regarding the time with Cassidy for Jason and his family.
That said, I think this is very difficult for Jason, Pat, Heather and Kim. I believe they truly love Cassidy. But I also believe they recognized that their financial and emotional resources needed to be reserved for Jason's criminal trial.
FWIW and JMO
What trial? Did I miss an arrest?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:08 PM
What trial? Did I miss an arrest?
No, you didn't miss it. It hasn't happened yet. But I believe it will.
We're entitled to our opinions, right?
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 08:21 PM
I've read all ten pages on this board but I think I missed something. Is there anything in the consent order or anywhere else that shows the judge ordered an investigation of the Fishers to determine if they are "fit and proper for the custodial roles herein (12-3)"? Is that normally done before someone is given custody of a child?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:25 PM
I've read all ten pages on this board but I think I missed something. Is there anything in the consent order or anywhere else that shows the judge ordered an investigation of the Fishers to determine if they are "fit and proper for the custodial roles herein (12-3)"? Is that normally done before someone is given custody of a child?
You must have missed the part on page 2 (that's near the top) where the parties agreed to waive discovery with respect to each other. That means the answer to your question is, NO.
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/06/4487955/Feb._6,_2009,_child_custody_consent_order.pdf
ETA: To be precise, that makes the answer to your first question, NO. Which makes your second question irrelevant.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 08:30 PM
I never said any of that. I'll repeat my request: please stop misrepresenting my posts.
:no:
When I have time later when I get home from work and if your posts haven't been deleted with your last nic, I'll try to find them.
I don't need to misrepresent your posts. Everyone has seen them for themselves, imo.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 08:32 PM
This is what I think:
I think the negotiations in the custody settlement were primarily centered around the bad feelings between Jason and Linda, that probably precede Michelle's death.
I think Jason trusts Meredith to provide a good, caring home for Cassidy, and to respect the terms of the custody agreement. Especially the terms regarding the time with Cassidy for Jason and his family.
That said, I think this is very difficult for Jason, Pat, Heather and Kim. I believe they truly love Cassidy. But I also believe they recognized that their financial and emotional resources needed to be reserved for Jason's criminal trial.
FWIW and JMO
Excellent points Card.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 08:33 PM
You must have missed the part on page 2 (that's near the top) where the parties agreed to waive discovery with respect to each other. That means the answer to your question is, NO.
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2009/02/06/4487955/Feb._6,_2009,_child_custody_consent_order.pdf
ETA: To be precise, that makes the answer to your first question, NO. Which makes your second question irrelevant.
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:35 PM
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
Oh, I absolutely would. And I have no doubt Judge Sasser has an even higher standard than mine. She gave primary physical custody and joint legal custody to Meredith. I trust her judgment.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
I don't believe a judge ordered it. I believe Jason through his attorney negotiated the arrangements for his daughter. The attorneys also included in the agreement that none of the parties would be "looked at", in different legalese, of course.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
If there is such a concern why did Jason and his attorney sign the document?
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:38 PM
If there is such a concern why did Jason and his attorney sign the document?
Now that's a good question.
When I have time later when I get home from work and if your posts haven't been deleted with your last nic, I'll try to find them.
I don't need to misrepresent your posts. Everyone has seen them for themselves, imo.
Past nics? Your delusions are in overdrive.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 08:38 PM
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
I'm glad to see you concede that Cassidy has been given to Meredith. It is a concept some people seem unable to grasp.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 08:43 PM
past nics? Your delusions are in overdrive.
deleted ...............................
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 08:46 PM
This is what I think:
SNIPPED....
That said, I think this is very difficult for Jason, Pat, Heather and Kim. I believe they truly love Cassidy. But I also believe they recognized that their financial and emotional resources needed to be reserved for Jason's criminal trial.
FWIW and JMO
They are not poor people, not in finances nor emotions. Jason needs no money for a nonexistent trial.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Look, I just asked if the judge asked the police to investigate the people she was giving the child to. From your answers, I guess the answer is no, or you don't know.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:51 PM
Look, I just asked if the judge asked the police to investigate the people she was giving the child to. From your answers, I guess the answer is no, or you don't know.
Oh, it's not an either/or answer. It's a NO.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 08:53 PM
If there is such a concern why did Jason and his attorney sign the document?
Who knows? Legal advice? I think the judge should know the people she is giving the child to. You don't? OK.
Thanks...I guess. I'm not asking about the parties doing an investigation. If I were a judge, I would certainly want to know the person I was giving a child to. Wouldn't you?
From what I've seen, in cases where the the custody is with relatives, the Judge usually doesn't investigate until he has grounds to investigate. A third party can raise red flags at any time. For example, CY says things to her therapist that alarms the therapist. The therapist has a duty to report it to CPS and CPS has to investigate and alert the Judge whether it is founded or unfounded.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Really ?
I hear the slayer has been unemployed for almost 6 months ?
Mama is a retired pubic school teacher.
No offense, but we all know NC teachers can barely make ends meet.
If they're not financially or emotionally poor, I wonder why they didn't fight to retain full custody of Cassidy. I'd imagine an emotionally rich or healthy family would do whatever it takes to ensure they kiss their child hello and goodbye on a daily basis - but then again, maybe that's just me and people like me.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Who knows? Legal advice? I think the judge should know the people she is giving the child to. You don't? OK.
IMO
She was given a choice between A and B. She sided with the one that was not a slayer.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 08:56 PM
From what I've seen, in cases where the the custody is with relatives, the Judge usually doesn't investigate until he has grounds to investigate. A third party can raise red flags at any time. For example, CY says things to her therapist that alarms the therapist. The therapist has a duty to report it to CPS and CPS has to investigate and alert the Judge whether it is founded or unfounded.
Well, apparently Cassidy didn't say anything to her "therapist" that raised any red flags, since the Youngs haven't been investigated (that we know of).
Well, apparently Cassidy didn't say anything to her "therapist" that raised any red flags, since the Youngs haven't been investigated (that we know of).
Agreed. And now that it is public knowledge Meredith will have physical custody of CY, if the child has said anything that would cause the therapist concern, the therapist has a duty to inform CPS.
Tacori
02-07-2009, 09:01 PM
They are not poor people, not in finances nor emotions. Jason needs no money for a nonexistent trial.
Hi, Kingbluff
May I ask why they didn't fight this custody suit then?
If they are not poor people, not in finances nor emotions, and JY doesn't need money for a nonexistent trial... and they had any concern whatsoever about signing over the primary custody to Meredith, why wouldn't they have fought this suit?
IMO
She was given a choice between A and B. She sided with the one that was not a slayer.
She didn't side with either one, she approved their agreement.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:03 PM
From what I've seen, in cases where the the custody is with relatives, the Judge usually doesn't investigate until he has grounds to investigate. A third party can raise red flags at any time. For example, CY says things to her therapist that alarms the therapist. The therapist has a duty to report it to CPS and CPS has to investigate and alert the Judge whether it is founded or unfounded.
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:04 PM
IMO
She was given a choice between A and B. She sided with the one that was not a slayer.
So you think she did investigate Meredith?
Hi, Kingbluff
May I ask why they didn't fight this custody suit then?
If they are not poor people, in finances or emotions, and JY doesn't need money for a nonexistent trial... and they had any concern whatsoever about signing over the primary custody to Meredith, why wouldn't they have fought this suit?
It wasn't "their" fight, was it?
Jason's family can raise any issue they want with CPS and it won't cost them a dime.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:05 PM
Why should YOU have a concern ?
The Young's didn't bat an eye.
Maybe you should check their eyes.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 09:06 PM
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
I'm guessing Judge Sasser slept just fine last night. :)
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:07 PM
Agreed. And now that it is public knowledge Meredith will have physical custody of CY, if the child has said anything that would cause the therapist concern, the therapist has a duty to inform CPS.
I don't know anything about CPS nor therapists. I remember that the cops took the copy of the therapist report that the Youngs had.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:08 PM
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
The child's own loving father agreed to and signed to allow his sister in law to have primary custody. If you are questioning the the actions of the judge, then I would think you would also be questioning the actions of the father.
IMO
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:08 PM
Hi, Kingbluff
May I ask why they didn't fight this custody suit then?
If they are not poor people, not in finances nor emotions, and JY doesn't need money for a nonexistent trial... and they had any concern whatsoever about signing over the primary custody to Meredith, why wouldn't they have fought this suit?
You'll have to ask Jason and his lawyer. Neither is talking yet.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 09:10 PM
The child's own loving father agreed to and signed to allow his sister in law to have primary custody. If you are questioning the the actions of the judge, then I would think you would also be questioning the actions of the father.
IMO
I was about to edit my post to say exactly that. Why would Judge Sasser be concerned about Cassidy, when Cassidy's own father stipulated to the court that Meredith was a fit and proper person to raise his daughter?
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:11 PM
I'm guessing Judge Sasser slept just fine last night. :)
OK. Maybe so. Why do you align yourself with a judge who gives a child to someone she doesn't know?
Who knows? Legal advice? I think the judge should know the people she is giving the child to. You don't? OK.
The only person who needs to know is the parent, which as we all know is Jason. He obviously consented so there will be no further investigation. He feels Meredith and Linda are suited, if not, why did he so freely share custody?
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
It's one of the biggest flaws of our system, kingbuff. Judges don't know and we've all heard of the many cases where the Judge is the last to know and the child ends up harmed or dead.
It's a possibility that exists in any custody case where relatives agree to share custody. The Judge has no way of knowing about their character that might place the child at risk unless somebody alerts her or CPS to it. When alerted, the State is required to conduct an investigation.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:13 PM
The child's own loving father agreed to and signed to allow his sister in law to have primary custody. If you are questioning the the actions of the judge, then I would think you would also be questioning the actions of the father.
IMO
He is following the advice of his lawyer. I am questioning the action of the judge. Who knows? Maybe she did order an investigation and we haven't seen it.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 09:13 PM
OK. Maybe so. Why do you align yourself with a judge who gives a child to someone she doesn't know?
Like I just said, she relied upon Cassidy's father's judgment. Was Jason wrong?
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:13 PM
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
Read the document again. She didn’t give the child to the person you described. She gave her to Meredith. Jason and his attorney fully agreed and signed the document. You were right. No trial. Jason just gave her primary custody without a fight.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 09:14 PM
I was about to edit my post to say exactly that. Why would Judge Sasser be concerned about Cassidy, when Cassidy's own father stipulated to the court that Meredith was a fit and proper person to raise his daughter?
Didn't he also speak highly of Meredith in one of his love messages to his mistress? It seems from his words and his actions that he believes she is a good custodian for his child. It was stipulated that she was fit and that there would be no further discovery. IMO
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 09:14 PM
OK. Maybe so. Why do you align yourself with a judge who gives a child to someone she doesn't know?
I'd say it's not likely that she'd ever have had an easier choice to make - give a child to someone declared a slayer of his wife and child or to an aunt who was prepared to undergo whatever was necessary in an attempt to gain custody of said child - easy, imo.
The only person who needs to know is the parent, which as we all know is Jason. He obviously consented so there will be no further investigation. He feels Meredith and Linda are suited, if not, why did he so freely share custody?
In custody, the Judge is focused on the best interest of the child. It is no longer Jason's call. Jason did not agree to share custody with Linda Fisher, btw.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:18 PM
The only person who needs to know is the parent, which as we all know is Jason. He obviously consented so there will be no further investigation. He feels Meredith and Linda are suited, if not, why did he so freely share custody?
He hasn't seen Linda or Meredith in more than two years. What does he know about them? I doubt Jason has the resources or experience or authority to investigate anyone. He consented because of legal advice.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:19 PM
OK. Maybe so. Why do you align yourself with a judge who gives a child to someone she doesn't know?
Don’t judges routinely make decisions concerning people they don’t know? I thought that was the object. Justice is blind. It doesn’t play favorites. If he needed a judge that knew him, why didn’t he follow through on the COV? He could have gotten one of your old students or maybe one of his mom’s old students. But, it would have meant that his dirty laundry would have been aired here in Brevard.
Read the document again. She didn’t give the child to the person you described. She gave her to Meredith. Jason and his attorney fully agreed and signed the document. You were right. No trial. Jason just gave her primary custody without a fight.
The Judge didn't give the child to anyone, she merely approved the agreement. If the Judge learns either parent is unfit, she'll revisit it whether Meredith or Jason agree or not.
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 09:19 PM
The post is saved for future use.
Hmmm
You are insinuating Meredith is :
1- a druggie
2- a pedarist
3- a thief
4- a murderer
5- a homo
6- a socially unacceptable person
??????
BTW, I hear # 2 actually applies to YOU.
I promise I won't tell the Brevardians .
Do you think he's referring to a pederast or a podiatrist - I know shoes figure in Michelle's murder.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:20 PM
I'd say it's not likely that she'd ever have had an easier choice to make - give a child to someone declared a slayer of his wife and child or to an aunt who was prepared to undergo whatever was necessary in an attempt to gain custody of said child - easy, imo.
Who knows? Maybe the aunt was looking for something else. Maybe the aunt is a slayer also. You don't know, and the judge doesn't know.
cognac
02-07-2009, 09:23 PM
I don't see how a judge could sleep at night with the possibility that he/she is giving a child to a druggie or a pedarist or a thief or a murderer or a homo or a socially unacceptable person of any sort. We'll see how this works out. I should think the judge would investigate, or order someone to.
It's very simple. It wasn't a contentious issue between the parties. If it was, the Judge may have appointed a Guardian ad litem.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE=Bombay;12753529]The post is saved for future use.
SNIPPED
QUOTE]
OK. I'll punch your ignore button, you punch mine.
He hasn't seen Linda or Meredith in more than two years. What does he know about them? I doubt Jason has the resources or experience or authority to investigate anyone. He consented because of legal advice.
Of course. The legal advice was spot on, I think. Plenty of others have been around Meredith and Linda in these two years and nothing at all prevents them from expressing their concerns, observations, experiences with the Judge or CPS.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:23 PM
He hasn't seen Linda or Meredith in more than two years. What does he know about them? I doubt Jason has the resources or experience or authority to investigate anyone. He consented because of legal advice.
So even Jason’s own lawyer thought that Meredith was a better choice than Jason? Is that the legal advice he followed? You know this legal advise excuse is getting old. It is being used for everything that Jason will not accept responsibility for. Maybe that will be his defense at trial. I killed Michelle based on legal advise. (Just IMO)
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:23 PM
In custody, the Judge is focused on the best interest of the child. It is no longer Jason's call. Jason did not agree to share custody with Linda Fisher, btw.
He agreed to share custody with Meredith who is allowed to have blood relatives stay over if she chooses. Since Linda is her mother, I'm pretty sure she will have plenty of visits and over night stays with her only grand daughter.
In essence, he has also agreed to share custody with Linda whether it's in legal writing or not. He knew and he KNOWS Linda will be a major part of her life from now on.
IMO
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 09:24 PM
Who knows? Maybe the aunt was looking for something else. Maybe the aunt is a slayer also. You don't know, and the judge doesn't know.
Maybe (although I doubt it), but Jayson has been adjudicated a slayer whereas Meredith hasn't so, on the facts available to Judge Sasser, this was a no brainer. After all, we do know her views on the elephant in the room from the Cooper case so this settlement shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.
cognac
02-07-2009, 09:24 PM
Conclusions of Law
3. The parties are fit and proper for the custodial roles herein.
4. The parties have consented to the entry of this order.
4. The entry of this order is in the best interests of the minor child.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Who knows? Maybe the aunt was looking for something else. Maybe the aunt is a slayer also. You don't know, and the judge doesn't know.
Once again....Jason must know or he would have NEVER agreed to and signed the custody papers regardless of what his attorney advised him.
IMO
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:27 PM
Don’t judges routinely make decisions concerning people they don’t know? I thought that was the object. Justice is blind. It doesn’t play favorites. If he needed a judge that knew him, why didn’t he follow through on the COV? He could have gotten one of your old students or maybe one of his mom’s old students. But, it would have meant that his dirty laundry would have been aired here in Brevard.
Sure. Every day judges give children to people they don't know. I'm sure you would, too. I wouldn't.
In custody, the Judge is focused on the best interest of the child. It is no longer Jason's call. Jason did not agree to share custody with Linda Fisher, btw.
Logistics Alli. A judge CANT and WONT give PRIMARY custody to two people living in seperate states. Meredith was the obvious choice since she is closer to Brevard, and Linda will, IMO, be moving there ASAP.
Jason knew that agreeing to make Meredith the Primary, Linda would also be involved in the day to day care of Cassidy. He knows that Linda will be there. So, in a sense, he DID agree.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:29 PM
Sure. Every day judges give children to people they don't know. I'm sure you would, too. I wouldn't.
You keep forgetting who agreed to this arrangement.
For all we know, he may have suggested it.
IMO
Who knows? Maybe the aunt was looking for something else. Maybe the aunt is a slayer also. You don't know, and the judge doesn't know.
Not now, the judge doesn't know. But that's not the same as the Judge intervening when she finds out
He hasn't seen Linda or Meredith in more than two years. What does he know about them? I doubt Jason has the resources or experience or authority to investigate anyone. He consented because of legal advice.
He has more resources than Linda and Meredith. He is Cassidy's father. Had he stood up and defended that right, Cassidy would be with him.
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:31 PM
Not now, the judge doesn't know. But that's not the same as the Judge intervening when she finds out
And that's exactly what the Fishers are counting on.
When she finds out that Jason killed Michelle, then things will certainly change.
IMO
Logistics Alli. A judge CANT and WONT give PRIMARY custody to two people living in seperate states. Meredith was the obvious choice since she is closer to Brevard, and Linda will, IMO, be moving there ASAP.
Jason knew that agreeing to make Meredith the Primary, Linda would also be involved in the day to day care of Cassidy. He knows that Linda will be there. So, in a sense, he DID agree.
That's not true. My brother has joint legal custody of his kids and he and his ex live in different states.
Jason didn't agree to share custody with Linda. It has nothing to do with the Judge. All the Judge did was approve the agreement.
Not now, the judge doesn't know. But that's not the same as the Judge intervening when she finds out
IMO, the Fisher's and Jason are way beyond your way of thinking. Jason has to cover his butt, so he came to an agreement.
They have what they wanted, Cassidy, and minimal visitation with the Slayer of Michelle. I think, since there has been no arrest, they are elated with that, and that alone.
An arrest will be fothcoming. In the meantime, Cassidy will be transferred and settled when that comes about.
imo of course.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:35 PM
Sure. Every day judges give children to people they don't know. I'm sure you would, too. I wouldn't.
I would assume that there are more than 100-150 people in Wake Co. How is the judge going to "know" all of them?
Plus, the arrangement was not being contested. Jason agreed that this was in the best interest of the child. Why would a judge disagree when she has Jason’s word that this is best? If you want to take issue with someone, start with Jason. He is giving up primary custody in exchange for visitation only. Sounds like your distain is misplaced. Jason gave away Pat Young granddaughter without a fight. How could that have happened?
He has more resources than Linda and Meredith. He is Cassidy's father. Had he stood up and defended that right, Cassidy would be with him.
psssst.... Cassidy is still with her father and will be for several more months.
That's not true. My brother has joint legal custody of his kids and he and his ex live in different states.
Jason didn't agree to share custody with Linda. It has nothing to do with the Judge. All the Judge did was approve the agreement.
I know, Florida, right? But its your brother and his ex. Not your brother, his ex, her mother, the dog, and joe blow down the road. Its between the two of them. And joint legal is not the same as joint physical. Ask your brother.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:36 PM
It's very simple. It wasn't a contentious issue between the parties. If it was, the Judge may have appointed a Guardian ad litem.
A Guardian is for court. The judge should order the cops and/or DSS to investigate. Anyway, I would, if I were a judge.
Cardinal
02-07-2009, 09:38 PM
That's not true. My brother has joint legal custody of his kids and he and his ex live in different states.
Jason didn't agree to share custody with Linda. It has nothing to do with the Judge. All the Judge did was approve the agreement.
I think you have finally focused on everyone else's point - Jason and his attorney identified Meredith as a fit and proper person to have joint legal and primary physical custody of Cassidy. The judge simply acknowledged their decision. By george, I think she's got it!
Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:
psssst.... Cassidy is still with her father and will be for several more months.
Right. I hope he doesn't do anything stupid, like run away with her somewhere.
I would assume that there are more than 100-150 people in Wake Co. How is the judge going to "know" all of them?
Plus, the arrangement was not being contested. Jason agreed that this was in the best interest of the child. Why would a judge disagree when she has Jason’s word that this is best? If you want to take issue with someone, start with Jason. He is giving up primary custody in exchange for visitation only. Sounds like your distain is misplaced. Jason gave away Pat Young granddaughter without a fight. How could that have happened?
I really don't understand why some of you continue to misrepresent the same facts over and over. Is this a game for you?
Jason did not give up legal custody, he agreed to share it.
He did not get visitation, he got a schedule of physical custody.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:38 PM
You keep forgetting who agreed to this arrangement.
For all we know, he may have suggested it.
IMO
The judge approved it. Doesn't matter who suggested it.
A Guardian is for court. The judge should order the cops and/or DSS to investigate. Anyway, I would, if I were a judge.
Jason's parental rights are still intact. He can do all of those things, on his own, if he wishes. No judge needs to intervene.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:39 PM
A Guardian is for court. The judge should order the cops and/or DSS to investigate. Anyway, I would, if I were a judge.
Jason is the father. If he is not worried why are you?
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 09:40 PM
A Guardian is for court. The judge should order the cops and/or DSS to investigate. Anyway, I would, if I were a judge.
You might want to consider that some of the gossip that you have been told is just not true. It is very likely that there is nothing to investigate. IMO
marty
02-07-2009, 09:40 PM
Look, I just asked if the judge asked the police to investigate the people she was giving the child to. From your answers, I guess the answer is no, or you don't know.
That would be a good question for you to ask Jason don't you think?
Just goes to show they didn't have anything on the sister like some have said all along. IMO Jason went along with this hook, line and sinker. :w00t:
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:40 PM
Not now, the judge doesn't know. But that's not the same as the Judge intervening when she finds out
You forget: nobody has investigated Meredith. Who's going to tell the judge? Wait, do you think the cops have investigated?
Jules2
02-07-2009, 09:40 PM
psssst.... Cassidy is still with her father and will be for several more months.
Having her during the transition period (and not full time at that) does not mean he stood up and defended his right to have her full time forever.
That is what Tia was stating despite your misinterpretation.
I think you have finally focused on everyone else's point - Jason and his attorney identified Meredith as a fit and proper person to have joint legal and primary physical custody of Cassidy. The judge simply acknowledged their decision. By george, I think she's got it!
Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:
Yes, but Jason just might be wrong. After all, he hasn't been around Meredith in years. If the Judge receives information from others with more recent knowledge of Meredith's character and whether she's fit and proper to care for CY, will she let her decision stand? Of course not.
Have a good night.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:43 PM
You forget: nobody has investigated Meredith. Who's going to tell the judge? Wait, do you think the cops have investigated?
Yes, and they gave their findings to the judge in the WDS.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:43 PM
I would assume that there are more than 100-150 people in Wake Co. How is the judge going to "know" all of them?
Plus, the arrangement was not being contested. Jason agreed that this was in the best interest of the child. Why would a judge disagree when she has Jason’s word that this is best? If you want to take issue with someone, start with Jason. He is giving up primary custody in exchange for visitation only. Sounds like your distain is misplaced. Jason gave away Pat Young granddaughter without a fight. How could that have happened?
Maybe this 'fight' hasn't started yet.
marty
02-07-2009, 09:45 PM
The judge approved it. Doesn't matter who suggested it.
I see your really upset with this. Time to tell yourself that just maybe old Jay isn't what you thought he was. I am almost sure you think he has done no wrong and maybe he hasn't goes to show if he wasn't afraid of being arrested he would have talked. Maybe fought for full custody of his child I know if I was innocent I would have.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Yes, but Jason just might be wrong. After all, he hasn't been around Meredith in years. If the Judge receives information from others with more recent knowledge of Meredith's character and whether she's fit and proper to care for CY, will she let her decision stand? Of course not.
Have a good night.
Wait a minute; you said before that this was not a decision made by a judge. It was an agreement between the two parties.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:46 PM
Jason is the father. If he is not worried why are you?
You dont worry about children? I do.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:48 PM
You might want to consider that some of the gossip that you have been told is just not true. It is very likely that there is nothing to investigate. IMO
And you would know this....how? By investigating.
You forget: nobody has investigated Meredith. Who's going to tell the judge? Wait, do you think the cops have investigated?
Not in terms of her fitness as a parent. But, if in their investigation of the murder, the cops have discovered reason for concern about Meredith being around children, they do have a duty to alert CPS. That's been true from the get-go and CY living with Jason.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 09:48 PM
You dont worry about children? I do.
Yes, I am worried about her right now. I have been worried about her for over two years. Once August rolls around, I will feel a lot better. IMO
Yes, but Jason just might be wrong. After all, he hasn't been around Meredith in years. If the Judge receives information from others with more recent knowledge of Meredith's character and whether she's fit and proper to care for CY, will she let her decision stand? Of course not.
Have a good night.
Jason is Cassidy's father, you are not. He made his choice and agreed to give Meredith PRIMARY custody.
Wait a minute; you said before that this was not a decision made by a judge. It was an agreement between the two parties.
The Judge signed the Order.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Maybe this 'fight' hasn't started yet.
Well he better start. He and his lawyer have signed a legally binding agreement. To have this changed would be an up hill battle at this point.
Oh, wait a minute. I think I see what has happened. Pat Young didn’t know about this ahead of time did she? Jason has duped her. That’s why you are saying the fight hasn’t started yet. Interesting…(IMO only)
Jason is Cassidy's father, you are not. He made his choice and agreed to give Meredith PRIMARY custody.
The ball is now in the Judge's court, not Jason's.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:52 PM
Yes, and they gave their findings to the judge in the WDS.
See? That's all I was asking for. B/S has information that the cops did investigate Meredith's background and her fitness to be Cassie's custodian. Now....maybe you will tell us how you know this and I'll go to a party.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:52 PM
The Judge signed the Order.
The judge signing the order mean that he is agreeing with it. However, it was not a decision made by the judge because it was already agreed upon. The judge just concurred.
marty
02-07-2009, 09:53 PM
Well he better start. He and his lawyer have signed a legally binding agreement. To have this changed would be an up hill battle at this point.
Oh, wait a minute. I think I see what has happened. Pat Young didn’t know about this ahead of time did she? Jason has duped her. That’s why you are saying the fight hasn’t started yet. Interesting…(IMO only)
I sure wouldn't have wanted to be in that home last night:ohmy:
Leanne Weich
02-07-2009, 09:53 PM
You might be surprised. Maybe the McIntyre's are feeling a sense of relieve. They have had over 2 year of turmoil in their lives maybe now they see a light at the end of the tunnel. HM has her new baby and life goes on. It isn't like they will never see the child again but they won't have to put up with all the turmoil with the Fisher's either.
Ever thought that if the Young/McIntyre family had allowed the Fishers reasonable rights of access to their grandchild/niece, there very well may have been no turmoil and Heather's baby would know its niece a damn sight better than he/she will on alternate weekends and holidays. Being spiteful seldom pays.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:54 PM
I see your really upset with this. Time to tell yourself that just maybe old Jay isn't what you thought he was. I am almost sure you think he has done no wrong and maybe he hasn't goes to show if he wasn't afraid of being arrested he would have talked. Maybe fought for full custody of his child I know if I was innocent I would have.
I'm not discussing Jason's situation. I'm concerned about Cassie.
marty
02-07-2009, 09:55 PM
See? That's all I was asking for. B/S has information that the cops did investigate Meredith's background and her fitness to be Cassie's custodian. Now....maybe you will tell us how you know this and I'll go to a party.
Is Jason haveing a party because he will soon be loose and fancy free:biggrin:
Maybe this 'fight' hasn't started yet.
My prediction is the fight won't be between Jason and Meredith, the fight will be between CPS and Meredith.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 09:57 PM
My prediction is the fight won't be between Jason and Meredith, the fight will be between CPS and Meredith.
I'm sure CPS will be so happy to have you wasting their time on a wild goose chase. They have children who really ARE being neglected and abused who DO need their attention. :rolleyes:
The judge signing the order mean that he is agreeing with it. However, it was not a decision made by the judge because it was already agreed upon. The judge just concurred.
The Judge signed the Order, it has nothing to do with agreeing with it because the Judge heard no evidence to indicate he shouldn't sign it.
The Order makes it clear the Judge will reconsider if there is a change in circumstances.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 09:58 PM
See? That's all I was asking for. B/S has information that the cops did investigate Meredith's background and her fitness to be Cassie's custodian. Now....maybe you will tell us how you know this and I'll go to a party.
That’s not what I said. You said that the cops need to investigate. I said they did. They investigated and their findings are the reason that Jason is now a SLAYER. If they discovered that Meredith was involved, then she would be the SLAYER. But she isn’t.
Why are you crying over spilt milk? You and yours could have gone with the Youngs and fought this. What happened? Why were you not prepared for this outcome?
(IMO only)
marty
02-07-2009, 09:59 PM
My prediction is the fight won't be between Jason and Meredith, the fight will be between CPS and Meredith.
I don't think so. It took her to long to get this child what makes you think she will screw up now? There is no way Cassidy would ever be in danger around her auntie or her grandma. I am just so Happy for these two fine ladies they both deserve this child because they can give her the love she deserves. And a very stable home.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 09:59 PM
Not in terms of her fitness as a parent. But, if in their investigation of the murder, the cops have discovered reason for concern about Meredith being around children, they do have a duty to alert CPS. That's been true from the get-go and CY living with Jason.
Maybe you're right, and maybe CPS has investigated. But I should think the judge would make reference to it and indicate she is satisfied with the investigation.
cognac
02-07-2009, 09:59 PM
You dont worry about children? I do.
Well then, you should have been worried about Cassidy when she was living with a Slayer.
Marty's right. You should be talking to jason about all of this because all I can see is misdirected anger towards Meredith, LE and now the Judge.
I'm sure CPS will be so happy to have you wasting their time on a wild goose chase. They have children who really ARE being neglected and abused who DO need their attention. :rolleyes:
Rolled eyes bacatcha for such an inane comment. CPS is required to investigate every tip. How else will they discover children who are really ARE being neglected, abused, at risk?
The ball is now in the Judge's court, not Jason's.
Yup. Jason put it there too.
My prediction is the fight won't be between Jason and Meredith, the fight will be between CPS and Meredith.
My prediction is that you will be wrong. Just like you were when you stated that the whole custody issue would be thrown out.
JMO!
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 10:03 PM
Ever thought that if the Young/McIntyre family had allowed the Fishers reasonable rights of access to their grandchild/niece, there very well may have been no turmoil and Heather's baby would know its niece a damn sight better than he/she will on alternate weekends and holidays. Being spiteful seldom pays.
You think it was just 'spite'? What makes you think that?
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 10:04 PM
Rolled eyes bacatcha for such an inane comment. CPS is required to investigate every tip. How else will they discover children who are really ARE being neglected, abused, at risk?
They are required to follow up every report. They waste a lot of time following up on the reports of vindictive exes or busy-bodies who pretend to have knowledge but really don't. Meanwhile a child who really does need protection may go without longer because they only have so many resources to go around.
If you want to call in some false report, go right ahead. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did something so juvenile but that's just me. IMO
Maybe you're right, and maybe CPS has investigated. But I should think the judge would make reference to it and indicate she is satisfied with the investigation.
No reason for CPS to investigate Meredith up until now. She didn't have custody and Jason kept her away from the child for whatever his reasons. If you have reason to believe CY will be in danger if she's in Meredith's care, pick up the phone and call CPS. They HAVE to investigate.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 10:07 PM
That’s not what I said. You said that the cops need to investigate. I said they did. They investigated and their findings are the reason that Jason is now a SLAYER. If they discovered that Meredith was involved, then she would be the SLAYER. But she isn’t.
Why are you crying over spilt milk? You and yours could have gone with the Youngs and fought this. What happened? Why were you not prepared for this outcome?
(IMO only)
From all I've read on the boards, the cops did not/ have not investigated Meredith or Linda. No SWs, etc.
They are required to follow up every report. They waste a lot of time following up on the reports of vindictive exes or busy-bodies who pretend to have knowledge but really don't. Meanwhile a child who really does need protection may go without longer because they only have so many resources to go around.
If you want to call in some false report, go right ahead. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did something so juvenile but that's just me. IMO
Yes. Go for it Alli.
They are required to follow up every report. They waste a lot of time following up on the reports of vindictive exes or busy-bodies who pretend to have knowledge but really don't. Meanwhile a child who really does need protection may go without longer because they only have so many resources to go around.
If you want to call in some false report, go right ahead. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did something so juvenile but that's just me. IMO
I would never call in a false report, either. Why are you accusing me of something so juvenile?
It's CPS' job to investigate. They can't know it is a waste of time until they investigate. Many of those reports just happen to be true, btw.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 10:12 PM
From all I've read on the boards, the cops did not/ have not investigated Meredith or Linda. No SWs, etc.
I thought probable cause was needed for SW’s? If they didn’t have it they couldn’t search. If they didn’t have probable cause they probably didn’t have a reason to search them either. How would the cops follow leads that don’t exist? Maybe Jason should call them and talk to them about it.
Barbara2
02-07-2009, 10:13 PM
I would never call in a false report, either. Why are you accusing me of something so juvenile?
It's CPS' job to investigate. They can't know it is a waste of time until they investigate. Many of those reports just happen to be true, btw.
And many are not. It's a shame that hateful people have to go out of their way to disrupt the lives of innocent and loving people because they so desperately want to be "right". IMO
From all I've read on the boards, the cops did not/ have not investigated Meredith or Linda. No SWs, etc.
Well, now they have probable cause in that a motive has emerged: the child.
I would never call in a false report, either. Why are you accusing me of something so juvenile?
It's CPS' job to investigate. They can't know it is a waste of time until they investigate. Many of those reports just happen to be true, btw.
Uh, no. WRONG. Many of those reports (and i have friends is CPS) are BS to stir up trouble.
They result in a waste of time and pull the CPS investigators from REAL Child abuse issues.
BSNBREVARDNC
02-07-2009, 10:15 PM
They are required to follow up every report. They waste a lot of time following up on the reports of vindictive exes or busy-bodies who pretend to have knowledge but really don't. Meanwhile a child who really does need protection may go without longer because they only have so many resources to go around.
If you want to call in some false report, go right ahead. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did something so juvenile but that's just me. IMO
Maybe someone should forward these post to CPS so that they will know that they should expect some false reports.
kingbuff
02-07-2009, 10:17 PM
Strange board tonight. Never have so many protested so vociferously about an investigation? Why shouldn't the judge investigate? What's the harm? He finds that Meredith is a pillar of the community and certainly not someone who would microwave a cat. He finds that she is someone he would love for his son to marry. He finds that Meredith donates half of her income to those less fortunate. So then he is able to sleep soundly knowing he gave a child to a grand home. What's wrong with that?
Well, now they have probable cause in that a motive has emerged: the child.
No they don't. The FATHER has agreed. You are the only person who seems to have a problem with it.
Tacori
02-07-2009, 10:18 PM
I'm not discussing Jason's situation. I'm concerned about Cassie.
I guess I'm confused. Why you would be concerned?
Her father just signed the consent order.
marty
02-07-2009, 10:18 PM
Well, now they have probable cause in that a motive has emerged: the child.
Well i tell ya Cassidy will be better off even if there's a knock on the door checking things out. They will find nothing! Better then a knock on the door and she see's daddy going bye bye:smile:
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