Thursday, Feb. 5th. - Part I

[?noanswer]

It's just curious that Jose would think this girl is capable of telling the truth to HIM. Do you think he believes anything she says? He'd have to be pretty gullible to think he is that special.


Those are the same questions I have. Why would KC suddenly begin telling him the truth? JMO

[BJames]

In your opinion, have the various law enforcement agencies been doing a pretty good job on this case, given what we've seen in the document releases so far?

Sometimes we see where local law enforcement has totally dropped the ball, but I haven't gotten the sense posters feel this is the case here.

TIA

Thus far from what we have found out? I think LE has done a very good job, they seem to cover their bases as they go along..enough that the defense wants their 'notes'.
Call me crazy...but it appears in this case of a missing (she never truly was) two year old, a mother who never called LE and finally told her mother after 31 days...who then reported it..I think it grabbed many in LE just like it did with the public and the media.
Even right at the beginning when they knew that Casey was 'lying' (again and again...) until the decomposition results came in, I think they looked around every tree they could...and were hoping against hope to find a live Caylee.
Oooops sorry...I go on and on :wink:

I think LE has done a great job thus far...and I don't think that they are 'finished' either, I don't believe that they want to see Casey walk out of that jail.
Rightly so...someone has to act on behalf of that baby girl.

Just my opinion of course...

[missinglink]

Cal, maybe you or someone else can answer this for me- the only reasonable explanation that I can come up with for denying the pregnancy is religion. Do we know what religious denomination the Anthonys were? Maybe it was such a declaration of sin to have a child out of wedlock that they were embarrassed to admit she was preganant and of course having sex. IMOO

I don't know what religious denomination George, Cindy, or Casey were or are.

Lee is agnostic.

[Dells]

well, Baez seems to think its HIS business, but cant get any other answer from his client *he died*<----she is probably sticking to this story...

unable to go forward because there is no connection to her supposed "dead father' story, Jesse is the latest mark...who already established there is no paternity. he wants to drag him thru the mud...*casey already indicated she was throwing Jesse under the bus by telling Cindy he is not to be trusted*....

however, casey herself called Jesse and told him not to talk to her mother *Ill explain later when Im drunk*....

Casey plays everyone.

who is Caylee's dad? sure, it might be irrelevant, but if the guy is really dead, that should be easily discovered. IMO, there is no dead guy, just another phantom Baez has to deal with, so he is doing 'busy work, check Jesse again' to cloud that issue.

if he gets a shot at Jesse, and he has to take another test, the 'who is the daddy issue' will fade. cant bring up a 'dead guy' nor the family, who doesnt exist.

IMO.

*wonder why Lee's dna was being checked for paternity?*

best regards,
Pru

Bolding mine.....

Great post as always! Casey does play everyone so that it why I think the prosecution and defense will go to great lengths to get documentation on everything involving this case.

[Tracian]

Where did you get where I said they (or she, Casey) did not let the father know he was the father of the child?


Originally Posted by SavannahStar
*bolding to address*

And why not, though? It's really not anyone's business who Caylee's father is. For whatever reason, he has not been involved in Caylee's life since birth, through death. The Anthonys raised Caylee on their own, with no support financial or otherwise, from the father. Cindy said early on (paraphrased), "her father has never been involved in her life."

In my own personal life I have known a few women who gave birth out of wedlock and never mentioned the father's name for just those reasons: the child was raised as a single mom with no support or involvement of the father. The reasons are not important. It is what it is.

To me, it's just that simple. And not that unusual.

IMO. [/quote]



Because it is not always the bad young man....sometimes it is a selfish mother, or a controlling grandmother.

[Texas48]

Lord knows I LOVE AND RESPECT her....but GOD!!! sometimes she needs to shut up and let them give their opinions.....

Believe me some of the opposing opinions carry some bearing on the case....and the prosecution clearly knowing where some of these whackanoodles are coming from would be a great asset to their case....and Nancy could play off them and ask some of the real questions.....just for their reaction... I also am fond of NG and her show. I do get aggravated at times when she cuts her guests off in the middle of their comments but then I have to realize their is such a TIME factor for the show and Nancy has to keep it moving. Actually some of the Defense attorneys intise me to jump up and smack the television. If they were LIVE in front of me God only knows what I would say to them. jmo

[openminded]

ok Thanks, maybe someday I will call lol.


sorry Nana, I don't know where that is but after Hurricane Katrina, I'm sure it's gone!

O/T. I believe Gulf Park was in west Gulfport or Long Beach. It was a beautiful campus, with lots of very old live oaks, right on Highway 90. Probably disappeared after Hurricane Camille in 1969.

[Regina.Lampert]

Bolding mine......

Good morning!

I think the defense would be stupid to take Casey's word on paternity as well. Hence, that it why they are asking about the documentation about paternity.

We're on the same page with this opinion Dells. :seeya:

[PuffDragon]

Bravo! Way to take one for the team. Excellent experiment Puff!

Thank you thank you..... I need a bowing smiley....

Of course to do a real test someone would have to try to replicate it with different types of gloves and tape. It's possible that the kind of duct tape sold in Florida is different from the kind sold in the Northeast, stickier or not so sticky. A heavier glove, or one of those non-latex gloves might hold up to the adhesive. It's just one result, not a definitive test.

[SavannahStar]

I do not believe for one second that Casey ever told the father he had a daughter.... not for one second. Whether she knew who it was or not..... and to me that is wrong.... you need to give someone a chance to be a parent... and Caylee deserved that as well.
:confused:

We really don't know. I tend to believe the father did know he was a father.

[CelticDawn]

Bolding mine......

Good morning!

I think the defense would be stupid to take Casey's word on paternity as well. Hence, that it why they are asking about the documentation about paternity.

For the FBI to do anything like this....there has to bre some pretty strong suggestions as to who the father is....thats not like them to take Casey saying she was "touched inappropriately"...and wasnt that as a juvenille?...

[spiritwolf46]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!

[PuffDragon]

I thought the IM's were that Caylee was so big now he would be surprised, and she taught Caylee something or other.....

not sure, and maybe I'm remembering wrong....

I think the surprise part was that Caylee was missing, and Casey went on about how he needed to get his butt back home and see her and Caylee....but we all know that Caylee was missing (and mostly likely deceased) at the time.

Setting him up to take the fall, you think?

[SavannahStar]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!


That's assuming he is a knight in shining armor who wishes to come forward at this late date. Narc had a very good post earlier in the thread about that.

Personally, if the case you outline is true......I very much doubt he would want to be involved at all at this point.

[?noanswer]

Ok- but why take a DNA test if you know that there is no way you are the father? That is odd to me-

Jesse was young and thought he was in "LUV". I understand it was his father that talked him into taking the test. I think the father did the math!! JMO

[ruth66]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!


Good questions, I would like to know the answers as well. I hope someone has the answers. That would put a stop to all this bargaining they seem to be doing for future book and entertainment deals.

JMO

[CelticDawn]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!

< Wouldnt that be sad....to finally find out about your child...and she is dead..:crying:>

Im sure it would be a legal mess....He would have to legally declare....File a petition....get himself added to birth records ...<meanwhile Caylees remains sit>.....and THEN he could do something


The problem with that is that IF he did that I BELIEVE cindy would finally do something...or even Casey!!....Theyre BOTH control freaks>...

[Pat]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!

Hope Lavina is lurking...or Katprint.

I was wondering if he could sue Casey for 'wrongful death'.

[Texas48]

I have always said that if this were a movie or TV show - it would be so unbelievable that no one would watch it. Truth really is stranger than fiction in this case. This has to be the craziest case I have ever followed or read about. Truer words have never been spoken...Shaking my head from Day 1 and still shaking my head today. Going to have to get some medical attention for my head after this case is over. lol .. Movie..yes..I can see it now..Very beginning there will be circus tents and everything that goes with it..squirrels included. And there will be LP in his big black hat chewing on a toothpick and Ciny with a big hammer in her hand. You can go from there. What would it be? Crime..drama..scifi..comedy..jmo

[Neffy]

Hiya Neff, yes that's the yarn cynthia spun during the Bond Hearing, iirc. But, since the princess failed to put a father's name on the birth certificate, wouldn't Caylee have gone to cynthia and george as NOK should anything have happened to casey anthony? The entire story cynthia told makes no sense to me.

Unfortunately we even though the majority if not all of Cindy's stories are lies that's she's believed or made up herself we have to listening to her blathering and ramblings.

I thought the same thing as you. I'll take it one step further that even if this DID happen a biodad what supercede anything they have in writing from Casey and a Lawyer and that would be overuled anyways UNLESS the emerging biodad would be deemed unfit.

[Texas48]

IIRC, casey anthony was in touch with Marc Hawkins around the time Caylee went missing and told him there was something she had to tell him and that he would be surprised. Had all of us thinking that he could be the father. LE did fly out to California and take his statement and they also have all his communications with her.
This was my thought as well about Mr. Hawkins. What else would KC surprise him with? jmo

[spiritwolf46]

That's assuming he is a knight in shining armor who wishes to come forward at this late date. Narc had a very good post earlier in the thread about that.

Personally, if the case you outline is true......I very much doubt he would want to be involved at all at this point.

You are prolly right, but I know if it were me and I was the father and never knew it, I sure would want to know and would take charge of everything from the knowing point on! I would stop all this nonsense!

[SavannahStar]

< Wouldnt that be sad....to finally find out about your child...and she is dead..:crying:>

Im sure it would be a legal mess....He would have to legally declare....File a petition....get himself added to birth records ...<meanwhile Caylees remains sit>.....and THEN he could do something


The problem with that is that IF he did that I BELIEVE cindy would finally do something...or even Casey!!....Theyre BOTH control freaks>...

And before ANY of that, paternity testing would have to be done.

Caylee will be buried long before then.

IMO.

[PuffDragon]

Awesome experiment PuffDragon!

I have had it in the back of my mind for a bit now to try the gloves that come with home *hair colouring kits...it appears that these ladies may well colour their hair....and of course they come with thin latex gloves.
No way they were used on duct tape right side out, the adhesive on the tape grabs right on and won't let me go...it wouldn't work to 'wrap' it around anything. However...I turned one pair of gloves inside out as it seemed there was a 'light powder' inside against my hands the first time. It was 'easier' to pull off the tape, but after a few times it became tacky again.
So it could be done using these gloves...I'm not saying this is what Casey used. I have a few friends that touch up their hair and use these kits, generally most only use one glove...the hand they are massaging the colour in with. I tend to do the same, and I have the left overs stored in a drawer.
A long shot for sure...but it could have happened.

Just my opinion of course..

**L'Oreal Preference was used during this...

Excellent, BJames, the more experiments the better. It's certainly likely that there might have been some of that type gloves in the house too. Those gloves are very flimsy but not stretchy. Did it actually tear or just stick? I have very small hands and have a hard time using them because they slide around on my hands, sort of like trying to work from within a quart storage bag, that could be an issue too. How did yours fit?
Good point about turning them inside out. Oh, but then the powder would adhere to the tape wouldn't it and could possibly be found?
Anyway, good work, lots of possibilities here.

[ruth66]

That's assuming he is a knight in shining armor who wishes to come forward at this late date. Narc had a very good post earlier in the thread about that.

Personally, if the case you outline is true......I very much doubt he would want to be involved at all at this point.

Not to be rude but isn't he already involved if he (name unknown) is the father? There is nothing "night and shining armor" about this, if there is please explain. If he never was told he was the father what fault is it of his? I would think any decent human being would come forward because it is the right thing to do not because he wants to be "a knight in shining armor". I am confused by your post.

JMO

[spiritwolf46]

Hope Lavina is lurking...or Katprint.

I was wondering if he could sue Casey for 'wrongful death'.

Oh good one! That, too!

[Regina.Lampert]

Has it ever been established that KC knew MH when she became pregnant? JMO

Hiya ?, we had a thorough discussion about Mark Hawkins way back in September. Go to search and type in his name and check show as posts, it will bring all that up for you. IIRC, it was established that Mark Hawkins was in Orlando around the time in question.

[Neffy]

Morning all!

I have a quick question. IF the father is not dead and LE finds out who it is and that he NEVER knew he was the father, what would be his legal recourse (sp?) in all of this mess?

Does that make sense? I mean, would he then be able to FINALLY bury that little girl? Or, could he go after Casey or the Anthony's from making book deals, movie deals and so on?

TIA!

IMO he would. His position would supercede the Grandparents although it would sway more in line of gaining custody from Casey or joint custody. It would be ugly that's for sure and quite possibly precedent setting. But to say he has no footing IMO would be totally inaccurate.

[spiritwolf46]

And before ANY of that, paternity testing would have to be done.

Caylee will be buried long before then.

IMO.

Unless LE has done the tests already, waiting for results. Let's face it, that poor, sweet, innocent little baby doesn't look like she is going anywhere fast.

(Shaking head) it just makes me sick.

[spiritwolf46]

IMO he would. His position would supercede the Grandparents although it would sway more in line of gaining custody from Casey or joint custody. It would be ugly that's for sure and quite possibly precedent setting. But to say he has no footing IMO would be totally inaccurate.


Thanks Neffy! :seeya:

[SavannahStar]

Not to be rude but isn't he already involved if he (name unknown) is the father? There is nothing "night and shining armor" about this, if there is please explain. If he never was told he was the father what fault is it of his? I would think any decent human being would come forward because it is the right thing to do not because he wants to be "a knight in shining armor". I am confused by your post.

JMO

First off....I never said I personally believed the father didn't know he was a father. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Knight in shining armor" comes from others' posts in the past that assume this man (if he JUST found out about being Caylee's father) would swoop in, to prevent the Anthonys from whatever.....and he would bury her, etc.

Just because he never knew he was Caylee's father (using that assumption) does NOT necessarily mean that IF he found out, he would do all these wonderful and miraculous acts.

There is always the possibility he could find out he's the father and NOT CARE AT ALL what the Anthonys do.

[Tracian]

Not to be rude but isn't he already involved if he (name unknown) is the father? There is nothing "night and shining armor" about this, if there is please explain. If he never was told he was the father what fault is it of his? I would think any decent human being would come forward because it is the right thing to do not because he wants to be "a knight in shining armor". I am confused by your post.

JMO


ITA with your post.

[SavannahStar]

IMO he would. His position would supercede the Grandparents although it would sway more in line of gaining custody from Casey or joint custody. It would be ugly that's for sure and quite possibly precedent setting. But to say he has no footing IMO would be totally inaccurate.

Well he certainly has no footing at all UNLESS he has been proven, through paternity testing, to be the father.

[Neffy]

Not to be rude but isn't he already involved if he (name unknown) is the father? There is nothing "night and shining armor" about this, if there is please explain. If he never was told he was the father what fault is it of his? I would think any decent human being would come forward because it is the right thing to do not because he wants to be "a knight in shining armor". I am confused by your post.

JMO

Don't be confused. Savannah's position has ALWAYS been the biodad knew and didn't want anything to do with responsibility Casey or Caylee. Also this matter is irrelevant.

I'm quite shocked at her posts today until the knight in shining armour one. Looks like a thinly veiled attempt to hide her original stance.

[ruth66]

Hiya Neff, yes that's the yarn cynthia spun during the Bond Hearing, iirc. But, since the princess failed to put a father's name on the birth certificate, wouldn't Caylee have gone to cynthia and george as NOK should anything have happened to casey anthony? The entire story cynthia told makes no sense to me.


I am inclined to believe that CA made those comments so that IF CAYLEE was found alive, the father would not feel that he had a leg to stand on if he tried to have CAYLEE removed and placed with him and his family. The paperwork that CA described sounded like it covered any scenario where Casey would not be able to care for CAYLEE. That is what leads me to believe CAYLEE's father is indeed alive and well and very well may know that CAYLEE was his child.

JMO

[spiritwolf46]

First off....I never said I personally believed the father didn't know he was a father. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Knight in shining armor" comes from others' posts in the past that assume this man (if he JUST found out about being Caylee's father) would swoop in, to prevent the Anthonys from whatever.....and he would bury her, etc.

Just because he never knew he was Caylee's father (using that assumption) does NOT necessarily mean that IF he found out, he would do all these wonderful and miraculous acts.

There is always the possibility he could find out he's the father and NOT CARE AT ALL what the Anthonys do.

BUT, there is always that possibility he wants to know, is scared and if and when he found out, could possibly put a rest to the circus that the Anthony's themselves have put on.

I wish so bad that this could be the case.

[PuffDragon]

It's all good. :) Maybe you don't realize when you are doing it. LOL just kidding.

<G> That's possible. I spend most of my time talking to myself anyway. :unsure: I just wanted to be excluded from the "all people lie" group.

[Neffy]

Well he certainly has no footing at all UNLESS he has been proven, through paternity testing, to be the father.

That goes without saying. Did I ever imply that anyone can walk up and claim paternity :rolleyes:

[Texas48]

Wonder if Jesse hooked up with her because he thought or knew she was pregnant before they hooked up? Maybe he knows who the father is?

*Adding* just a question....not accusing anyone *End of add*
Hmmmmm....If Jesse knew who the father was then why would he have taken a paternity test? I am not certain KC would have even told him the truth about Caylee's father. By the way... who did KC tell the story about Lee?

[Lilly12]

You are prolly right, but I know if it were me and I was the father and never knew it, I sure would want to know and would take charge of everything from the knowing point on! I would stop all this nonsense!


One very good reason a child should know who their father is......for the medical history, if nothing else. It is not any of our business who the father is, but it sure as hello the childs business. moo

[Texas48]

IMO its one of those skeleton in the closet things. Dirty family secret.
JMO
Good name for a Lifetime Movie..

[Neffy]

Has Casey ever filed indigent status? Is the state paying for any of her defense?

[need2no]

Thank you thank you..... I need a bowing smiley....

Of course to do a real test someone would have to try to replicate it with different types of gloves and tape. It's possible that the kind of duct tape sold in Florida is different from the kind sold in the Northeast, stickier or not so sticky. A heavier glove, or one of those non-latex gloves might hold up to the adhesive. It's just one result, not a definitive test.

Ok, since you admitted it, I will too. I also tried the gloves/duct tape experiment. I used Mr. Clean mega grip gloves. The gloves did not tear, but the tape kept sticking to the gloves as I handled it, and pulling them down. It was necessary to pull the tape off the gloves and reposition the gloves back on my hands numerous times. I pulled off a piece about a foot and half long and wrapped it around a Solo cup while wearing the gloves...it was annoying but actually easier than I expected. :sad:

But like you suggested...different tape and glove strength could change the results. I wonder if Cindy kept any of those doctor type gloves around the house, I think I'll give those a try next.

[happygert]

It's hard to tell from the documents that have been released so far, we hear all the time that they have plenty of evidence that is being held close to the vest. Before Caylee was found it was stated that the prosecution was ready to go to trial and the defense was the one stalling (Baez did ask for an extention the morning Caylee was found). After looking at the tapes of last friday's court hearings it looks like the state is now saying the trial probably won't start until next year, why did finding Caylee change the state's plan so much?

JMO

IMO they know baez has't even started what he needs to do to get ready for trial..

D'As office now has much more evidence against casey and they have to wait for all reports from all the new experts......jmo
Theres 100 and some witnesses I'm sure baez has not deposed one of them...moo

[SavannahStar]

BUT, there is always that possibility he wants to know, is scared and if and when he found out, could possibly put a rest to the circus that the Anthony's themselves have put on.

I wish so bad that this could be the case.


Of course. Anything is possible. I think the chance of that is slim, however.

[CC I See]

IIRC, casey anthony was in touch with Marc Hawkins around the time Caylee went missing and told him there was something she had to tell him and that he would be surprised. Had all of us thinking that he could be the father. LE did fly out to California and take his statement and they also have all his communications with her.
It's true that we don't know who Caylee's father is..... but I feel absolutely certain Casey does. Remember she is a big fan of CSI and can research and find what she needs whether it be someone's check book, visitation card, credit card, or a whole list of items she can obtain when needed. There has to be a reason why she won't come forward with this information and it could be that she is waiting for the right moment..... to reveal this little tidbit of critical information. Maybe to sweeten a book or movie deal? What's this information really worth?

[KayOh]

Hmmmmm....If Jesse knew who the father was then why would he have taken a paternity test? I am not certain KC would have even told him the truth about Caylee's father. By the way... who did KC tell the story about Lee?

She told that to Tony Lazarro.

[spiritwolf46]

One very good reason a child should know who their father is......for the medical history, if nothing else. It is not any of our business who the father is, but it sure as hello the childs business. moo


That is exactly right, Lilly. It IS VERY pertinent to this little girl and if she had been alive, she would want to know and NEED to know those things when she grew up.

[SavannahStar]

One very good reason a child should know who their father is......for the medical history, if nothing else. It is not any of our business who the father is, but it sure as hello the childs business. moo


Totally agree! And I believe it's very possible that all involved know who Caylee's father is. And that Caylee herself would have known when she was old enough.

[PuffDragon]

I am about to get a smack down for this but I must say I agree Puff. Not only do I think he is amusing but I believe he is smarter than what we want to believe and I do think he knows alot about this family and many details...where he gets it from is anyone's quess. JMO

I think he's smart. I had to stop taking him too seriously because i tend to analyze (some might say overanalyze) what I'm watching and i can't figure out why Lenny didn't come out with all of this on the first day. What, he has a mental disability that only allows him to remember one event or one statement a day? And only when he gets on NG's show? So I stopped watching him for information and started watching him only for the entertainment factor. I can deal with that much.

[*MoonRider*]

One very good reason a child should know who their father is......for the medical history, if nothing else. It is not any of our business who the father is, but it sure as hello the childs business. moo

Cindy discussing the father around the 3.00 mark

http://www.wftv.com/video/17566546/index.html

[happy2bme]

Hmmmmm....If Jesse knew who the father was then why would he have taken a paternity test? I am not certain KC would have even told him the truth about Caylee's father. By the way... who did KC tell the story about Lee?


IIRC it was JG & AL

[steffaroob4]

One of my phone's has a screen option, where I can screen calls (I felt like I was being redundant).........and when that phone number calls me it goes straight to voice mail......

my other phone doesn't have that option.......annoying....

Also I have an option to block my number on one phone, and not the other.

So you have a good question....it's possible.

Thanks, I am still looking at calls, that really helps. I started on June 15th, I am now on June 23rd. The straight to voice mail calls happen over and over again with two main phone numbers CA and Mark H. She would call Mark back(sometimes), some times the next morning, I don't see her returning CA's calls like she returned some of Mark's.

[ruth66]

First off....I never said I personally believed the father didn't know he was a father. Quite the opposite, in fact.

"Knight in shining armor" comes from others' posts in the past that assume this man (if he JUST found out about being Caylee's father) would swoop in, to prevent the Anthonys from whatever.....and he would bury her, etc.

Just because he never knew he was Caylee's father (using that assumption) does NOT necessarily mean that IF he found out, he would do all these wonderful and miraculous acts.

There is always the possibility he could find out he's the father and NOT CARE AT ALL what the Anthonys do.

IA, there is the possibility that he could find out and not give a flying leap, but there is also the possibility that he would.

MY apologies for not realizing that the "knight in shining armor" description was not yours, I only knew what I saw in your post. It just appears in your post that you weigh heavily toward the side of "anthony" and not some possibly poor unsuspecting guy. Why not give the unknown father the same "benefit of the doubt" that you give the Anthony's? Afterall, we don't know what his situation with regard to CAYLEE is. Sorry don't mean to be argumentative, just trying to afford the possible father a little slack.:wink:

JMO

[RiverWalk]

It's hard to tell from the documents that have been released so far, we hear all the time that they have plenty of evidence that is being held close to the vest. Before Caylee was found it was stated that the prosecution was ready to go to trial and the defense was the one stalling (Baez did ask for an extention the morning Caylee was found). After looking at the tapes of last friday's court hearings it looks like the state is now saying the trial probably won't start until next year, why did finding Caylee change the state's plan so much?

JMO

I think it's because of the mountain of evidence to be tested by the experts: FBI lab (Caylee is but one case in their backlog), botanists, entomologists, etc. Lots to process. JMO

[Neffy]

One very good reason a child should know who their father is......for the medical history, if nothing else. It is not any of our business who the father is, but it sure as hello the childs business. moo

Without a doubt parentage of a child should be known.

There are ALWAYS two biological parents. When your in this situation of keeping the childs father a secret there is NOTHING the mother or grandparents can do that that will ever change in particular the rights of a father with the exception of finding them legally unfit. No one can decide on their own that on should be cut out. They can surface at anytime and that will all ways be possibilty try as they may to intervene by taking legal steps to avoid this. It wouldn't hold up and the father would have every right to challenge it.

[ruth66]

I am inclined to believe that CA made those comments so that IF CAYLEE was found alive, the father would not feel that he had a leg to stand on if he tried to have CAYLEE removed and placed with him and his family. The paperwork that CA described sounded like it covered any scenario where Casey would not be able to care for CAYLEE. That is what leads me to believe CAYLEE's father is indeed alive and well and very well may know that CAYLEE was his child.

JMO

sorry to quote my own quote, but wanted to add:
OR NOT to the bolded portion....I don't know anymore, I am confused. My problem is that I am trying to apply my logic to this mess.....

[need2no]

Hmmmmm....If Jesse knew who the father was then why would he have taken a paternity test? I am not certain KC would have even told him the truth about Caylee's father. By the way... who did KC tell the story about Lee?

I think the primary, if not only reason Jesse took a paternity test was at the encouragement/insistence of his father. I don't think it was his idea or desire, and I suspect Jesse would have been happy just to let the world believe he was the bio dad. Good thing he took his father's advise.

Maybe Jesse was dropping a subtle hint rather than coming right out and making accusations when he told LE about casey's molestation story.

casey also told this story to TonE.

[SavannahStar]

Without a doubt parentage of a child should be known.

There are ALWAYS two biological parents. When your in this situation of keeping the childs father a secret there is NOTHING the mother or grandparents can do that that will ever change in particular the rights of a father with the exception of finding them legally unfit. No one can decide on their own that on should be cut out. They can surface at anytime and that will all ways be possibilty try as they may to intervene by taking legal steps to avoid this. It wouldn't hold up and the father would have every right to challenge it.

So you are assuming that the Anthonys kept Caylee a secret from her father? That they decided on their own NOT to tell the father??

See, I'm not making any assumptions either way.

I think the possibility is greater that the father knows who he is, however.

[ruth66]

BUT, there is always that possibility he wants to know, is scared and if and when he found out, could possibly put a rest to the circus that the Anthony's themselves have put on.

I wish so bad that this could be the case.


I wish for that too. In Dr. Phil speak: "This little angel needs someone to step up and be a hero"

JMO

[spiritwolf46]

IA, there is the possibility that he could find out and not give a flying leap, but there is also the possibility that he would.

MY apologies for not realizing that the "knight in shining armor" description was not yours, I only knew what I saw in your post. It just appears in your post that you weigh heavily toward the side of "anthony" and not some possibly poor unsuspecting guy. Why not give the unknown father the same "benefit of the doubt" that you give the Anthony's? Afterall, we don't know what his situation with regard to CAYLEE is. Sorry don't mean to be argumentative, just trying to afford the possible father a little slack.:wink:

JMO

Good post, Ruth. ITA.

[PuffDragon]

I think some people lie because they know the person who asked a question really doesn't want the truth. Do you like my hair, does this dress look good on me, do you like the color of my nail polish.?

I try not to directly lie, but I won't tell them I don't like something. I usually say something like, "If you like it, that's the important thing. I think the A's lie because it's a family trait. JMO

Good points. I can tell the truth all I want because I have a reputation as a kind of a character. If somebody says, "Do you like my dress?" I can say "Not much, that color really takes away from your eyes, I think you'd look much better in blue," and for some reason she doesn't take offense. Of course, my attitude is, if a person's going to take offense I don't need him around anyway. It's also possible that by this time people who don't really want to hear my answers just aren't asking me the questions. I have to add, if I really do like the dress I will say so unsolicited.

A person might lie so that others won't get a look at what's really inside him. That doesn't seem to apply to George and I'm fairly sure it does apply to Casey. I wonder if it applies to Cindy too.

[Tracian]

So you are assuming that the Anthonys kept Caylee a secret from her father? That they decided on their own NOT to tell the father??

See, I'm not making any assumptions either way.

I think the possibility is greater that the father knows who he is, however.



Because no one took the time to get a paternity test so a father's name could be added to the BC, the possiblity that they never told the father is very strong.

[Stella Rose]

:laugh: Of course. Very attractive. Goes well with your oddly-colored skin.

Hey! You're a Dragon... shouldn't you be green as well? :o (I'll go with pink for Rose)

[spiritwolf46]

I wish for that too. In Dr. Phil speak: "This little angel needs someone to step up and be a hero"

JMO

She sure does, Ruth! Makes me sick that no one is looking out for that little baby. She never deserved what she got in life, and certainly does not deserve what she has gotten so far in death. Sad, sorry case, this one is. :crying:

[Stella Rose]

Hey Cuddly, not to nit-pick, but shouldn't you sig line say "She waited 31 days and never reported her daughter missing"

[ruth66]

Ok, since you admitted it, I will too. I also tried the gloves/duct tape experiment. I used Mr. Clean mega grip gloves. The gloves did not tear, but the tape kept sticking to the gloves as I handled it, and pulling them down. It was necessary to pull the tape off the gloves and reposition the gloves back on my hands numerous times. I pulled off a piece about a foot and half long and wrapped it around a Solo cup while wearing the gloves...it was annoying but actually easier than I expected. :sad:

But like you suggested...different tape and glove strength could change the results. I wonder if Cindy kept any of those doctor type gloves around the house, I think I'll give those a try next.

Also one needs to factor in movement of the victim. If CAYLEE was indeed alive when the duct tape was placed, the chance that she was squirming and fighting Casey off is high. There is a chance that one of the gloves fell off during this time. The fact that the tape was placed from end to end could quite possibly mean that she was having difficulty keeping the tape over the mouth because of resistenace.

It just feels so wrong talking and actually thinking these things through....

[Texas48]

I don't think Cindy is in control of the remains. Casey is. That is why she hasn't been buried yet. This is the final way that Casey can disrespect her daughter.
IMO..Just because KC has been charged w/murder of HER daughter does not take away her control of HER daughter. KC has to turn over those rights to ever she wants to. If this is true..(I'm no lawyer) she is only trying to torture Cindy as much as she can before she can't torture any more.

[Neffy]

So you are assuming that the Anthonys kept Caylee a secret from her father? That they decided on their own NOT to tell the father??

See, I'm not making any assumptions either way.

I think the possibility is greater that the father knows who he is, however.

Yes that has ALWAYS been my stance along with the father plain didn't know.

It has never been the father knew and never wanted to have anything to do with Caylee.

I posted your assumption as you have made yourself very clear and IIRC this is going on the 3rd or 4th run of this same discussion where you always assumed the opposite and were quite adamant that a: The father wasn't/isn't important. B: The father knew and wanted nothing to do with Caylee physically and monetarily supporting her.

As I said I'm quite shocked that your now denying all this. Anyone is free to change their mind on a stance at anytime but to deny it is a whole nother issue.

[Neffy]

Hey Cuddly, not to nit-pick, but shouldn't you sig line say "She waited 31 days and never reported her daughter missing"

How about after 31 days she was caught not reporting her daughter missing.

[PuffDragon]

:confused:

We really don't know. I tend to believe the father did know he was a father.

Since we have no way of knowing for certain, your belief is as valid as anybody else's.

[Stella Rose]

Truer words have never been spoken...Shaking my head from Day 1 and still shaking my head today. Going to have to get some medical attention for my head after this case is over. lol .. Movie..yes..I can see it now..Very beginning there will be circus tents and everything that goes with it..squirrels included. And there will be LP in his big black hat chewing on a toothpick and Ciny with a big hammer in her hand. You can go from there. What would it be? Crime..drama..scifi..comedy..jmo

Oh, Texas, I had almost forgotten the two Zombie squirrels that magically transferred their stench form the engine compartment to the trunk. Thanks for reminding me of those special squirrels.

Tragedy?

[SavannahStar]

Because no one took the time to get a paternity test so a father's name could be added to the BC, the possiblity that they never told the father is very strong.

I disagree.

And my reasoning for that is in multiple posts way earlier, so I won't repeat myself.

You know, in the past on here others have brought up the possibility it was a one-night stand....Casey didn't even know the guy's name or where he lived or anything, and he didn't know anything about her either. In which case they would not have been able to tell him anything.....couldn't find him.

But that's a whole other scenario. And if that's true, it cannot be blamed on Casey or the Anthonys.

[PuffDragon]

Jesse was young and thought he was in "LUV". I understand it was his father that talked him into taking the test. I think the father did the math!! JMO

His dad knew from the get-go that Casey was pregnant. Thank goodness Jesse was a young man who still paid attention to his father.

[ruth66]

I think it's because of the mountain of evidence to be tested by the experts: FBI lab (Caylee is but one case in their backlog), botanists, entomologists, etc. Lots to process. JMO


Which brings to mind another question I have been wondering about. Does the defense have the same "discovery" rules that the prosection has? Meaning, if the defense finds something that would implicate Casey that the prosecution might have missed, does the defense have to disclose it to the prosecution?

I apologize if this has been asked and answered but I have short term memory with alot of this legal mumbo jumbo.

JMO

[Dells]

exactly...if Casey's fingerprints are on the sticky side of the duct tape, (which i tend to believe they are) then it's a slam dunk....JMO

I agree w/you. I'd like to see what the defense is going to do then? I think they will be crawling to the prosecution trying to make some sort of deal for Casey that doesn't involve the DP.

[summer4meplz]

IMO..Just because KC has been charged w/murder of HER daughter does not take away her control of HER daughter. KC has to turn over those rights to ever she wants to. If this is true..(I'm no lawyer) she is only trying to torture Cindy as much as she can before she can't torture any more.


good morning everyone! one would think if you killed your daughter, you would lose all rights.....sometimes the laws are just downright stupid IMO...

[need2no]

Also one needs to factor in movement of the victim. If CAYLEE was indeed alive when the duct tape was placed, the chance that she was squirming and fighting Casey off is high. There is a chance that one of the gloves fell off during this time. The fact that the tape was placed from end to end could quite possibly mean that she was having difficulty keeping the tape over the mouth because of resistenace.

It just feels so wrong talking and actually thinking these things through....

So right you are ruth.

One thing I failed to mention in my earlier post...as I was conducting the experiment it dawned on me that if I put rubber bands around the gloves at my wrists, I could solve the problem of the gloves slipping down as the tape stuck to them. Let's hope that casey didn't have time to stop and think about this, and at least one of her gloves fell off, IF she was even wearing gloves to start with.

Yes, it does seem horrible to be thinking about this in detail.

[ruth66]

So you are assuming that the Anthonys kept Caylee a secret from her father? That they decided on their own NOT to tell the father??

See, I'm not making any assumptions either way.

I think the possibility is greater that the father knows who he is, however.


bolding mine


And that in itself is an assumption one way....MOO

[SavannahStar]

Yes that has ALWAYS been my stance along with the father plain didn't know.

It has never been the father knew and never wanted to have anything to do with Caylee.

I posted your assumption as you have made yourself very clear and IIRC this is going on the 3rd or 4th run of this same discussion where you always assumed the opposite and were quite adamant that a: The father wasn't/isn't important. B: The father knew and wanted nothing to do with Caylee physically and monetarily supporting her.

As I said I'm quite shocked that your now denying all this. Anyone is free to change their mind on a stance at anytime but to deny it is a whole nother issue.

What in the world are you talking about Neffy? Where did I deny anything?

Yes, I STILL believe A & B, as you listed, are true. I have not denied this.

But I am not so stupid or arrogant as to believe other situations are POSSIBLE.

[CC I See]

So you are assuming that the Anthonys kept Caylee a secret from her father? That they decided on their own NOT to tell the father??

See, I'm not making any assumptions either way.

I think the possibility is greater that the father knows who he is, however.
I have absolutely no doubt that Casey knows exactly who the father of Caylee is. Remember she is an avid fan of CSI, has excellent research abilities and can obtain information whenever needed to help further along her exploits. This little vital tidbit of information is being held back for the right moment.... maybe to sweeten a book or movie deal. Wonder just how much this information is worth?:glare:

[cuddlyrunner]

I'll change it to daughter :-)

[Pat]

good morning everyone! one would think if you killed your daughter, you would lose all rights.....sometimes the laws are just downright stupid IMO...


Casey hasn't been convicted of murdering her daughter in a court of law. As far as the Courts are concerned, at this point she is considered innocent until proven guilty. Therefore, she still has her parental rights, which means she has control of Caylee's remains.

[Neffy]

IA, there is the possibility that he could find out and not give a flying leap, but there is also the possibility that he would.

MY apologies for not realizing that the "knight in shining armor" description was not yours, I only knew what I saw in your post. It just appears in your post that you weigh heavily toward the side of "anthony" and not some possibly poor unsuspecting guy. Why not give the unknown father the same "benefit of the doubt" that you give the Anthony's? Afterall, we don't know what his situation with regard to CAYLEE is. Sorry don't mean to be argumentative, just trying to afford the possible father a little slack.:wink:

JMO

Ruth the "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" was really taken out of context. It was quite awhile ago. I can't remember who'd posted that but it was in the context of Caylee could really use a 'KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" to take her away from all this nonsense and see that she's laid to rest in a dignified manner immediately.

[need2no]

good morning everyone! one would think if you killed your daughter, you would lose all rights.....sometimes the laws are just downright stupid IMO...

Good morning!

I think the legal argument would be that even though she is charged with murdering her daughter, she is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Sickening, huh.

[Stella Rose]

That goes without saying. Did I ever imply that anyone can walk up and claim paternity :rolleyes:

I can't imagine why anyone would willingly inject themselves into this horrible circus at this point. If the guy just now is figuring out he was Caylee's father - he's smart to stay far, far away from this mess.

What could he do now? (other than get dragged through the same muck as anyone else who ever met Casey has)...

[KayOh]

Thank you.....

Sorry, but you might know this as well......

Didn't she tell someone George did something to her as well?

Seems I recall a statement by someone about that as well. (But I could be totally mistaken)

I don't recall that. All I can remember is a veiled reference by Casey to being sexually abused and some assuming it may have been GA.

[Tracian]

I disagree.

And my reasoning for that is in multiple posts way earlier, so I won't repeat myself.

You know, in the past on here others have brought up the possibility it was a one-night stand....Casey didn't even know the guy's name or where he lived or anything, and he didn't know anything about her either. In which case they would not have been able to tell him anything.....couldn't find him.

But that's a whole other scenario. And if that's true, it cannot be blamed on Casey or the Anthonys.



Right, I know it is always the young man that is at fault. The fact is that Casey named two possible fathers, one is dead and the other did not match DNA..The family of the dead young man don't believe that their son even knew Casey outside high school...

If it was a one night stand, well then it is not the father's fault either so he is in the clear about being 'someone that didn't want to be involved'

Yes, Casey is to blame because she is a liar that is enabled by her parents, and IMO learned how to lie because she was raised in a home where lying was just part of their lifestyle.

[Neffy]

I can't imagine why anyone would willingly inject themselves into this horrible circus at this point. If the guy just now is figuring out he was Caylee's father - he's smart to stay far, far away from this mess.

What could he do now? (other than get dragged through the same muck as anyone else who ever mer Casey has)...

This is the cruxed of the matter. Can you imagine your son coming home: MOM & DAD we need to talk. I think that I could be ...........

Couldn't even imagine what one would do or should do at this point.

From a legal perspective just dealing with this case It's my guess to rule in the biofather knew about Caylee and had a vendetta to cast reasonable doubt on Casey. Part of the defense strategy to see what sticks.

[KittyMom]

Ruth the "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" was really taken out of context. It was quite awhile ago. I can't remember who'd posted that but it was in the context of Caylee could really use a 'KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" to take her away from all this nonsense and see that she's laid to rest in a dignified manner immediately.

So, it was used in a positive sense and not in the snippy way it was used earlier? It is true that Caylee could certainly have used a protector.

[AlohaRainbow]

I agree. And I don't know how there couldn't be fingerprints on the duct tape. How can you handle duct tape without getting your hands all over it??
*snip*
Which brings me to my point. A latex glove is not going to be pulled off the adhesive on duct tape without tearing. I just tried it (I don't want to hear a single word about OCS), pull your hand away and the glove stretches and snaps, leaving a piece of latex sticking to the tape. I had a really hard time managing the tape with latex gloves on my hands.

So, not necessarily the scientific method, but my test with latex gloves and duct tape wants me to rule it out.
i think cloth (as in gardening) gloves might work with duct tape. maybe a little awkward, but they wouldn't tear

[summer4meplz]

I don't recall that. All I can remember is a veiled reference by Casey to being sexually abused and some assuming it may have been GA.


I'll jump in with my bad memory....she claims Lee tried to get sexual....george was abusive but she didn't say what kind of abuse she was accusing george of.....IIRC

eta...I don't believe george would get sexual with her not for a second

[Texas48]

Totally agree! And I believe it's very possible that all involved know who Caylee's father is. And that Caylee herself would have known when she was old enough. Good morning SS. Maybe the STORY that was told about Caylee's father being dead (car crash on his way to her b-day party) have been for Caylee's benefit as she bacame older and started asking questions about her father. This story would have been KINDER that saying they did not know who her father was or that her father was married w/another family and did not want to be in Caylee's life. They would have had to explain to Caylee someday.

[Neffy]

So, it was used in a positive sense and not in the snippy way it was used earlier? It is true that Caylee could certainly have used a protector.

Originally yes. It was in the positive sense.

[Regina.Lampert]

I am inclined to believe that CA made those comments so that IF CAYLEE was found alive, the father would not feel that he had a leg to stand on if he tried to have CAYLEE removed and placed with him and his family. The paperwork that CA described sounded like it covered any scenario where Casey would not be able to care for CAYLEE. That is what leads me to believe CAYLEE's father is indeed alive and well and very well may know that CAYLEE was his child.

JMO

Hiya Ruth, your scenario is as valid as anyone's, imo. Poor anthonys, just the thought that there is someone out there poised to step in and demand some of the loot made off poor Caylee must keep them up at night. IMO.

[ruth66]

Ruth the "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" was really taken out of context. It was quite awhile ago. I can't remember who'd posted that but it was in the context of Caylee could really use a 'KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR" to take her away from all this nonsense and see that she's laid to rest in a dignified manner immediately.

Thank you Neffy! In that context ITA, she does need a "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOUR". We will all need one in one form or another after this trial is done and JUSTICE HAS BEEN SERVED FOR CAYLEE.
JMO

[summer4meplz]

Well I think one should be convicted first,

then since we do have innocent people that have been convicted and later found to be innocent you can't take all rights away or then you'd have innocent people behind bars with no rights, and no way to prove themselves innocent because they would have no rights to any appeal.

So yeah I think we should wait until there is a trial and a conviction before we start taking rights away......I think that would be stupid to do otherwise.

sometimes legalities don't jive with moralities....I think it's absolutely immoral to keep using Caylee as a means to hurt her parents....if that's what she is doing, which I believe she is....

and I wish to God they would just have a private funeral and forget about a dog and pony show they are trying to pass off as a memorial

[PuffDragon]

Ok, since you admitted it, I will too. I also tried the gloves/duct tape experiment. I used Mr. Clean mega grip gloves. The gloves did not tear, but the tape kept sticking to the gloves as I handled it, and pulling them down. It was necessary to pull the tape off the gloves and reposition the gloves back on my hands numerous times. I pulled off a piece about a foot and half long and wrapped it around a Solo cup while wearing the gloves...it was annoying but actually easier than I expected. :sad:

But like you suggested...different tape and glove strength could change the results. I wonder if Cindy kept any of those doctor type gloves around the house, I think I'll give those a try next.

Wow, way to go n2n!!! Apparently this question has intrigued us questioning types. We've got a pretty good experiment running here! Can you describe the strength and weight of the Mr. Clean gloves, heavier than the standard latex 'doctor type' gloves would you say? Did you use the regular all-purpose duct tape or the heavy duty outdoor tape? The first one I used was a white version, the adhesive wasn't as strong, my gloves stuck consistently, I could pull them off without tearing but with some difficulty. Then I repeated the experiment with the standard silver tape which is stickier. That's the one that tore the gloves when I pulled hard enough. I also found that the tape seemed to be 'attracted' to the glove, like static electricity, I had a hard time keep it from coming over on its own and attaching itself to my hands. Maybe a feature of the latex?

[Dells]

because Casey tried to say he was the father.

And stand up guy that he is, he still wanted to marry Casey and raise Caylee like she was his own...:wub:

[KittyMom]

Right, I know it is always the young man that is at fault. The fact is that Casey named two possible fathers, one is dead and the other did not match DNA..The family of the dead young man don't believe that their son even knew Casey outside high school...

If it was a one night stand, well then it is not the father's fault either so he is in the clear about being 'someone that didn't want to be involved'

Yes, Casey is to blame because she is a liar that is enabled by her parents, and IMO learned how to lie because she was raised in a home where lying was just part of their lifestyle.

I'm not sure that one could lay all the blame on the young man. With all the photos we've seen of Casey, I don't think she could be described as "demure" or "virginal". She'd been around the block a time of two. Why could it not be that she was the sexual aggressor who didn't want commitment? I've yet to see proof that she actually wanted a baby. She didn't tell her parents she was prego, didn't receive prenat care, and the real zinger...Caylee is dead. Doesn't sound like someone who wanted to be a mom.

On the other hand, the father has never been given the luxury of walking away as Casey should've done.

[ishkabibble]

I thought it was Casey's job to dig up those root things in the back yard so Caylee doesn't step on them......Isn't that cindy's excuse of why Casey borrowed the neighbors shovel??

MOO

Please remember the words "job" and "Casey" are never in the same sentence.. LOL

[happy2bme]

Sorry I thought she told Tony L. that Lee "sexually abused" her, but told another person the George "sexually abused" her also.

But you may be correct that she didn't actually name a name and people assumed it was GA.

She did tell Anthony Lazzaro & Jessie Grund. I am pretty sure she said GA abused her. I will see if I can find it.

[RiverWalk]

Remember this little boo-boo by Luka? What a dolt.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8151115&version=1&locale=EN-US

about the 1/2 way mark.

[Tracian]

I'm not sure that one could lay all the blame on the young man. With all the photos we've seen of Casey, I don't think she could be described as "demure" or "virginal". She'd been around the block a time of two. Why could it not be that she was the sexual aggressor who didn't want commitment? I've yet to see proof that she actually wanted a baby. She didn't tell her parents she was prego, didn't receive prenat care, and the real zinger...Caylee is dead. Doesn't sound like someone who wanted to be a mom.

On the other hand, the father has never been given the luxury of walking away as Casey should've done.


Ya know that really bothers me, here is Cindy a RN, and she does not realize that Casey is pregnant? He co workers realized it, but Cindy with her head in the clouds didn't? I know some are going to go down the excuse river of denial for Cindy...but as a professional health care provider, one would think she would put the baby before her own fantasy world.

[PuffDragon]

Hey! You're a Dragon... shouldn't you be green as well? :o (I'll go with pink for Rose)

But I'm a MAGICdragon, my colors are beautiful, even the green!!!:biggrin:

[callmetree]

And before ANY of that, paternity testing would have to be done.

Caylee will be buried long before then.

IMO.

hi SS, i still would like to know for sure why she hasn't been buried as of yet. just doesn't make sense to me....

[ruth66]

Here is a nice link that will probably answer your question.

Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure 3.220-Discovery (http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm)


Thank you Narc...I will bookmark that link. Just skimmed through real quick to find what I was looking for. It almost seems as if the defense has an advantage in that CA, GA & LA could be telling Baez things to help him create his defense and Baez does not have to disclose it. He wouldn't have to since everything CA says seems to be a working "theory". I admit up front I am not a lawyer and do not understand every aspect of our legal system, but in this case CA & GA are a wash as far as being good for the defense and good for prosecution. There is no telling what would come out of their mouths and whether one could believe a word of it. I think CA has shown signs that she does not understand what being "under oath" really means.

All this of course is JMO

[summer4meplz]

So you think it's morally right to take rights away from innocent people that are convicted?

I do agree that legalities don't jive with moralities.......Divorce comes to mind. I don't believe God said you could get a divorce other than for a certain reason, but legally people can get a divorce for any number of reasons. :shrug:


bolded....I don't understand the question.....if someone is convicted but they are innocent should they have their rights taken away?
I guess so, yes, if they are convicted....but, as you pointed out, casey hasn't been convicted YET

[summer4meplz]

She did tell Anthony Lazzaro & Jessie Grund. I am pretty sure she said GA abused her. I will see if I can find it.


but she never said what kind of abuse......I'm pretty certain about that....

[Neffy]

I'm not sure that one could lay all the blame on the young man. With all the photos we've seen of Casey, I don't think she could be described as "demure" or "virginal". She'd been around the block a time of two. Why could it not be that she was the sexual aggressor who didn't want commitment? I've yet to see proof that she actually wanted a baby. She didn't tell her parents she was prego, didn't receive prenat care, and the real zinger...Caylee is dead. Doesn't sound like someone who wanted to be a mom.

On the other hand, the father has never been given the luxury of walking away as Casey should've done.

What tells me that this guy may not know if it's true Cindy went thru the trouble of getting an attorney for guardian ship of Caylee, why didn't they ask the father to meet them there to sign over custody rights. That would carry the weight not their back door guardianship nonsense.

If the father were deceased and something happened to Casey, Caylee being brought up in the home and raised by Cindy and George anyway there wouldn't have been a problem in making it legal.

This is BS that Casey and the father had an understanding. Hogwash.

Not only that somewhere it's written that LEE put his two cents in regarding this and that they do in fact know who the father is but out of RESPECT they are not contacting them at this time.

[PuffDragon]

good morning everyone! one would think if you killed your daughter, you would lose all rights.....sometimes the laws are just downright stupid IMO...

She is only charged at this time. Maybe once she is convicted there could be an argument to take away her rights, I don't know.

[KittyMom]

Ya know that really bothers me, here is Cindy a RN, and she does not realize that Casey is pregnant? He co workers realized it, but Cindy with her head in the clouds didn't? I know some are going to go down the excuse river of denial for Cindy...but as a professional health care provider, one would think she would put the baby before her own fantasy world.

Her brother too. But yeah, I see what you're saying. For Cindy it was all about how her family was seen by others. Not the emotional well being of her family, but did people see them in the right way. Had Cindy's priorities been straight, Caylee would be alive now.

[ruth66]

sometimes legalities don't jive with moralities....I think it's absolutely immoral to keep using Caylee as a means to hurt her parents....if that's what she is doing, which I believe she is....

and I wish to God they would just have a private funeral and forget about a dog and pony show they are trying to pass off as a memorial


Two cheers for you!! ITA..

[summer4meplz]

But I'm a MAGICdragon, my colors are beautiful, even the green!!!:biggrin:


I think that is one of the saddest songs.....poor Puff....

I read on another site that conway has filed an order of protection against ZG's lawyer.....has this already been discussed or should I go find the link?

[AlohaRainbow]

Jesse isn't her father though. So asking for those tests make little sense to me. Unless Baez just wants his DNA.. other than that, how does it matter? Cause Jesse isn't her father.
i may be a little confused, but i don't think baez actually gets jesse's dna by requesting paternity test results? my understanding is that the report lists specific sites on the genes that are compared and reported as either a site match between caylee's and jesse's, or not a match? would jesse's entire dna profile be shown on the report??

[WillowInFlight]

I'll jump in with my bad memory....she claims Lee tried to get sexual....george was abusive but she didn't say what kind of abuse she was accusing george of.....IIRC

eta...I don't believe george would get sexual with her not for a second

Nor do I, I'm not even sure I believe the bit about Lee.

[PuffDragon]

Have to say I agree.

*Adding* Until there is proof otherwise *End of Add*

Of course. That goes without saying.

[summer4meplz]

She is only charged at this time. Maybe once she is convicted there could be an argument to take away her rights, I don't know.

hopefully Caylee will be buried long before her conviction...that might take years.....

[KayOh]

Her brother too. But yeah, I see what you're saying. For Cindy it was all about how her family was seen by others. Not the emotional well being of her family, but did people see them in the right way. Had Cindy's priorities been straight, Caylee would be alive now.

You sure about that?

[cassidy]

I think that is one of the saddest songs.....poor Puff....

I read on another site that conway has filed an order of protection against ZG's lawyer.....has this already been discussed or should I go find the link?

I haven't heard that but you don't have to look for a link. What kind of protection is he asking for though?

[PuffDragon]

i think cloth (as in gardening) gloves might work with duct tape. maybe a little awkward, but they wouldn't tear

Yes, I'm sure you're right. Anybody want to take on the gardening gloves test?

[KittyMom]

You sure about that?

Well, my siggy says its my opinion. I won't state that as fact simply because I in no way understand Casey's mind. I would hope that had Cindy cared a little more about people, Caylee would've been in a loving home environment, Cindy's parents wouldn't be subject to theft from their own granddaughter, and Casey would've been learning how to live on her paychecks only.

[summer4meplz]

I haven't heard that but you don't have to look for a link. What kind of protection is he asking for though?


this is easier lol


http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8344871&version=1&locale=EN-US

[need2no]

Wow, way to go n2n!!! Apparently this question has intrigued us questioning types. We've got a pretty good experiment running here! Can you describe the strength and weight of the Mr. Clean gloves, heavier than the standard latex 'doctor type' gloves would you say? Did you use the regular all-purpose duct tape or the heavy duty outdoor tape? The first one I used was a white version, the adhesive wasn't as strong, my gloves stuck consistently, I could pull them off without tearing but with some difficulty. Then I repeated the experiment with the standard silver tape which is stickier. That's the one that tore the gloves when I pulled hard enough. I also found that the tape seemed to be 'attracted' to the glove, like static electricity, I had a hard time keep it from coming over on its own and attaching itself to my hands. Maybe a feature of the latex?

Kudos to you my fellow sleuth!

Puff my new and improved :smile: Mr. Clean Mega Grip gloves state they are made from high quality natural rubber latex, and yes I would say they are definitely thicker, heavier than the 'doctor type' of gloves.

The duct tape I used seems to be just general household type weight. When I stuck my finger on it (minus gloves) it didn't really seem to be very sticky. However, the gloves sure did stick to it. I looked on the inside of the roll but it doesn't provide any specifics about the tape. Like you, I also felt the tape was highly attracted to the gloves, and found it challenging to even get the tape started while wearing the gloves.

I've found some heavier cloth type duct tape, and I have some 'doctor' gloves I use for furniture refinishing and craft projects, so I'm going to experiment some more. I'll let you know what I find....unless we get that doc dump with the tape/finger prints results first. :wink:

[desmom]

Didn't George say Caylee had a white backpack the last time he saw her?

I was reading Lee's interview transcripts. On page 18, http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%20Lee%20Anthony%20July%2029,%202008.pdf he explained to LE about going to TonE's and picking up Casey's things. He said, "So uh, the laptop, uhm, a very large, uhm, leopard print duffel band that had all of her clothing and items uhm, in there. Uhm, a uhm, a backpack, a white backpack with kind of a uh, you know, a pattern or you know, a symbol on that uh, that also had some more clothing items in there...."

Could this have been Caylee's backpack? :shrug:

[ruth66]

It has always been my belief that KC did not want Cindy having anything to do with Jesse as she was scared of what Jesse would tell Cindy/George things that KC had said about them. jmo


IA, I think Jesse and his family are probably the most honest and honorable people Casey had a real connection to. (Please note that I am not implying anything about any other associates of Caseys). She had to have known that Jesse (after hearing that CAYLEE was missing) would spill everything he knew. One can only imagine the lies Casey had told Jesse to gain his sympathy for her over time. She wanted to make sure GA & CA did not hear what Casey had been saying and doing over the past few years.

JMO

[Tracian]

Well, my siggy says its my opinion. I won't state that as fact simply because I in no way understand Casey's mind. I would hope that had Cindy cared a little more about people, Caylee would've been in a loving home environment, Cindy's parents wouldn't be subject to theft from their own granddaughter, and Casey would've been learning how to live on her paychecks only.


I think it is a reasonable assumption that if the Anthony's were more honest, and had their priorities straight, Caylee may very well still be alive.

Cindy according to co workers complained about Casey, Casey admits her mother thought her unfit...yet Cindy did nothing to insure Caylee's safty, for what reasons there could be several, but the reality is, apparently the warning signs regarding Casey were there, but ignored.

[PuffDragon]

I'm not sure that one could lay all the blame on the young man. With all the photos we've seen of Casey, I don't think she could be described as "demure" or "virginal". She'd been around the block a time of two. Why could it not be that she was the sexual aggressor who didn't want commitment? I've yet to see proof that she actually wanted a baby. She didn't tell her parents she was prego, didn't receive prenat care, and the real zinger...Caylee is dead. Doesn't sound like someone who wanted to be a mom.

On the other hand, the father has never been given the luxury of walking away as Casey should've done.

Wait, we don't know whether or not she received prenatal care, we're just assuming. We haven't had any information on that at all.

[BJames]

Her brother too. But yeah, I see what you're saying. For Cindy it was all about how her family was seen by others. Not the emotional well being of her family, but did people see them in the right way. Had Cindy's priorities been straight, Caylee would be alive now.

I agree KittyMom, it seems it was much more about what people 'saw', than anything that was actually (not) going on.
And I still believe that it is that way, or at least from what I can 'see'. I can almost hear Cindy chiding George for taking his 'concerns' outside of the 'family', how dare he when she worked so hard to keep them all together and on the same page?
That's the problem with 'Storybook' families/relationships...not everyone is going to believe it. It is such high pressure to keep everything in 'control'...and I do believe Cindy Anthony is feeling a loss of control. Casey won't speak to them/her...she wants to plan a service but either Casey and/or Baez have legal control over the remains...and she has no say. George stepped out of line and spoke with someone outside of the family unit...that threatens her 'reality' for sure.
And she has done what Jose would do well to avoid...she has backed up the lies of her daughter and spoken them as gospel truth with her own character at risk.
Now the one she has been 'protecting' at all cost won't even speak to her...she must be freaking wondering how that 'looks' to other folks.

Just my opinion of course..

[happy2bme]

but she never said what kind of abuse......I'm pretty certain about that....

You are right she didn't tell what kind about GA. I am still trying to find it.

[Kokopelli]

I can't imagine why anyone would willingly inject themselves into this horrible circus at this point. If the guy just now is figuring out he was Caylee's father - he's smart to stay far, far away from this mess.

What could he do now? (other than get dragged through the same muck as anyone else who ever met Casey has)...

Stella...I sure agree with you on this one. He will hide under a rock before willingly coming out to be that piece of "jury-doubt" that Baez is looking for. And anyway, I can see the Anthony's suing him for a few years of past child support since more than likely he never paid for his share of Pampers!!! Or a bottle of formula, or health insurance or etc. etc. etc. Or, that his rejection of their granddaughter and daughter put their daughter over the "edge"? With all the lawyers involved I am sure they could find all angles to hang a fella!

And now back to Ming Ming.

[SavannahStar]

You sure about that?


Now Cindy is being blamed for Caylee's death? :sad:

[Tracian]

Wait, we don't know whether or not she received prenatal care, we're just assuming. We haven't had any information on that at all.


It is a reasonable assumption. Casey was not working, so she would have no insurance, unless she was on state aid, which never came out, she would have to have money to go to a doctor. According to the family, no one knew that Casey was pregnant, or admitted it until she was about 7 months along.

[ruth66]

Kudos to you my fellow sleuth!

Puff my new and improved :smile: Mr. Clean Mega Grip gloves state they are made from high quality natural rubber latex, and yes I would say they are definitely thicker, heavier than the 'doctor type' of gloves.

The duct tape I used seems to be just general household type weight. When I stuck my finger on it (minus gloves) it didn't really seem to be very sticky. However, the gloves sure did stick to it. I looked on the inside of the roll but it doesn't provide any specifics about the tape. Like you, I also felt the tape was highly attracted to the gloves, and found it challenging to even get the tape started while wearing the gloves.

I've found some heavier cloth type duct tape, and I have some 'doctor' gloves I use for furniture refinishing and craft projects, so I'm going to experiment some more. I'll let you know what I find....unless we get that doc dump with the tape/finger prints results first. :wink:

I am curious as to how you all are cutting the duct tape. Are you using scissors or a knife? This sounds silly but my father used duct tape like it was elmers glue when I was growing up. He would always use his teeth to start a tear in the tape and then pull to complete the cut. Does anyone know how the ends of the duct tape around CAYLEE's skull were cut when placed there? Is it possible that Casey cut the tape in this same manner (therefore leaving DNA)? Maybe that is what the dinnerware (knife) was for. I can't imagine her cutting a long enough piece, setting it down and then attaching it. Any ideas?

[Myka]

Please remember the words "job" and "Casey" are never in the same sentence.. LOL

lol without getting too graphic, I can think of a way "Casey" and "Job" would fit in a sentence lol:rolleyes:

[Neffy]

IA, I think Jesse and his family are probably the most honest and honorable people Casey had a real connection to. (Please note that I am not implying anything about any other associates of Caseys). She had to have known that Jesse (after hearing that CAYLEE was missing) would spill everything he knew. One can only imagine the lies Casey had told Jesse to gain his sympathy for her over time. She wanted to make sure GA & CA did not hear what Casey had been saying and doing over the past few years.

JMO

I have to agree with you there. I would tend to imagine myself being less forgiving should one of my sons bring home their "new pregnant" girlfriend that he'd "just started" dating. Even though they'd insisted on knowing the facts, they were still understanding and welcomed both Caylee and Casey.

I'd imagine even that unsaid mistrust issue was there and possibly why if "controlling" Jesse wanted to know her every move. Not a healthy relationship from the start. That was Jesse's biggest hang up were her lies. I'm sure she'd been caught in many.

[SavannahStar]

I can't imagine why anyone would willingly inject themselves into this horrible circus at this point. If the guy just now is figuring out he was Caylee's father - he's smart to stay far, far away from this mess.

What could he do now? (other than get dragged through the same muck as anyone else who ever met Casey has)...

Well there ya go.......

[margaritaville]

There is a kooky kind of logic to Casey and Cindy's lies. They have enough 'truth' to almost make some of their stories credible, at least until they are checked into a bit more.

Just from the emails between the family, and the problems that Cindy and George were having, but deny, it is fairly clear that the truth is a stranger in the Anthony's world.

Its just incredible how many details Cindy seems to remember about things that Casey had told her ...

Casey said she was crashing at Zannys on the 16th, 17th, on the 18 Casey told her that Zanny Casey and Annabel (Juliette's child) were going to stay at hard rock hotel for a convention through the 20th.
From the 20th they moved the conference to Tampa, so they all went to Tampa.. Paid for through her work.

Will be home on Sunday the 22nd after there last meeting.
On the 22nd, Zanny's roommate (Rachel) came in so they were staying at the park (Busch Gardens) for the day.

All stayed at the park and were on there way back home Monday the 23rd.

Monday they were in the car accident. Rochelle and Zanny were in the accident. Casey followed them to the hospital (Tampa General). Broken arm and Zanny had a concussion. Zanny called her sister she couldn't come up so Casey stayed. Cindy was pizzed wanted to know where Caylee was, Casey said that Juliette's sister took Caylee. So she stayed until the 25th due to cut behind Zanny's ear and vomiting and blacking out. Difficulty breathing, fractured rib, pressing on Zanny's lung..


Ok so with all this information that Cindy had from Casey.......And now Cindy knows it is all BS........How can Cindy believe ANYTHING Casey has ever sad???

I mean WOW.......The details that were told to her.....
Was all of this part of Caseys plan?? Casey had to know that LE would check all of this out, right?

[ishkabibble]

IIRC, casey anthony was in touch with Marc Hawkins around the time Caylee went missing and told him there was something she had to tell him and that he would be surprised. Had all of us thinking that he could be the father. LE did fly out to California and take his statement and they also have all his communications with her.

I can't see her telling Mark he was Caylee's father when Caylee was already dead. Even if he was it, would just open a huge can of worms.
I think her trip to Cali was to hid Caylee's death from her parents by telling them Caylee was with her in Cali and then telling Mark, Caylee was in Florida. That situation would buy her time to concoct some big lie about something happening to Caylee in Cali and telling her parents she was dead from some illness or accident. She could say she was cremated.

[PuffDragon]

Please remember the words "job" and "Casey" are never in the same sentence.. LOL

I need to address something about those roots. Grin put me onto this earlier this morning.

In his statement, Brian Burner described Casey asking to borrow his shovel:

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFile...30,%202008.pdf (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12%20Brian%20Brown%20July%2030,%202008.pdf)

"...Casey had approached me and asked me if she could borrow a shovel. She you know wanted to dig up a, a bamboo root she had been tripping over."

I read that originally and passed over it. I've been assuming all along that Cindy made it up about Casey needing the shovel to dig up the root but apparently it was Casey's story from the start.
Just needed to set that record straight.

[Myka]

I think it is a reasonable assumption that if the Anthony's were more honest, and had their priorities straight, Caylee may very well still be alive.

Cindy according to co workers complained about Casey, Casey admits her mother thought her unfit...yet Cindy did nothing to insure Caylee's safty, for what reasons there could be several, but the reality is, apparently the warning signs regarding Casey were there, but ignored.


in the docs....Debbie Polisano stated Cindy said she was upset and complained that she always had Caylee

[summer4meplz]

Right, she hasn't.......

I don't think the BART officer who shot a guy laying down on his back should lose his rights......

He has a right to a trial.....if and when he is convicted he should have a right to appeal.....eventhough he was on video when he shot the guy in the back.


I'm sorry, I don't know the story about the BART officer....but I sure don't want to go O/T

[ishkabibble]

Its just incredible how many details Cindy seems to remember about things that Casey had told her ...

Casey said she was crashing at Zannys on the 16th, 17th, on the 18 Casey told her that Zanny Casey and Annabel (Juliette's child) were going to stay at hard rock hotel for a convention through the 20th.
From the 20th they moved the conference to Tampa, so they all went to Tampa.. Paid for through her work.

Will be home on Sunday the 22nd after there last meeting.
On the 22nd, Zanny's roommate (Rachel) came in so they were staying at the park (Busch Gardens) for the day.

All stayed at the park and were on there way back home Monday the 23rd.

Monday they were in the car accident. Rochelle and Zanny were in the accident. Casey followed them to the hospital (Tampa General). Broken arm and Zanny had a concussion. Zanny called her sister she couldn't come up so Casey stayed. Cindy was pizzed wanted to know where Caylee was, Casey said that Juliette's sister took Caylee. So she stayed until the 25th due to cut behind Zanny's ear and vomiting and blacking out. Difficulty breathing, fractured rib, pressing on Zanny's lung..


Ok so with all this information that Cindy had from Casey.......And now Cindy knows it is all BS........How can Cindy believe ANYTHING Casey has ever sad???

I mean WOW.......The details that were told to her.....
Was all of this part of Caseys plan?? Casey had to know that LE would check all of this out, right?

She remembers all that BS but the important stuff she hems and haws about.

[Tracian]

Its just incredible how many details Cindy seems to remember about things that Casey had told her ...

Casey said she was crashing at Zannys on the 16th, 17th, on the 18 Casey told her that Zanny Casey and Annabel (Juliette's child) were going to stay at hard rock hotel for a convention through the 20th.
From the 20th they moved the conference to Tampa, so they all went to Tampa.. Paid for through her work.

Will be home on Sunday the 22nd after there last meeting.
On the 22nd, Zanny's roommate (Rachel) came in so they were staying at the park (Busch Gardens) for the day.

All stayed at the park and were on there way back home Monday the 23rd.

Monday they were in the car accident. Rochelle and Zanny were in the accident. Casey followed them to the hospital (Tampa General). Broken arm and Zanny had a concussion. Zanny called her sister she couldn't come up so Casey stayed. Cindy was pizzed wanted to know where Caylee was, Casey said that Juliette's sister took Caylee. So she stayed until the 25th due to cut behind Zanny's ear and vomiting and blacking out. Difficulty breathing, fractured rib, pressing on Zanny's lung..


Ok so with all this information that Cindy had from Casey.......And now Cindy knows it is all BS........How can Cindy believe ANYTHING Casey has ever sad???

I mean WOW.......The details that were told to her.....
Was all of this part of Caseys plan?? Casey had to know that LE would check all of this out, right?


I have long felt that those questions Cindy was asking were all pre-arranged with Casey before her arrest. They knew they were being recorded...it was all part of the act.

[WillowInFlight]

Its just incredible how many details Cindy seems to remember about things that Casey had told her ...

Casey said she was crashing at Zannys on the 16th, 17th, on the 18 Casey told her that Zanny Casey and Annabel (Juliette's child) were going to stay at hard rock hotel for a convention through the 20th.
From the 20th they moved the conference to Tampa, so they all went to Tampa.. Paid for through her work.

Will be home on Sunday the 22nd after there last meeting.
On the 22nd, Zanny's roommate (Rachel) came in so they were staying at the park (Busch Gardens) for the day.

All stayed at the park and were on there way back home Monday the 23rd.

Monday they were in the car accident. Rochelle and Zanny were in the accident. Casey followed them to the hospital (Tampa General). Broken arm and Zanny had a concussion. Zanny called her sister she couldn't come up so Casey stayed. Cindy was pizzed wanted to know where Caylee was, Casey said that Juliette's sister took Caylee. So she stayed until the 25th due to cut behind Zanny's ear and vomiting and blacking out. Difficulty breathing, fractured rib, pressing on Zanny's lung..


Ok so with all this information that Cindy had from Casey.......And now Cindy knows it is all BS........How can Cindy believe ANYTHING Casey has ever sad???

I mean WOW.......The details that were told to her.....
Was all of this part of Caseys plan?? Casey had to know that LE would check all of this out, right?

That has always floored me, the great detail that she went into, WTH thinks like that?

[AlohaRainbow]

*snip*
After looking at the tapes of last friday's court hearings it looks like the state is now saying the trial probably won't start until next year, why did finding Caylee change the state's plan so much?

JMO
i would think that finding caylee's remains adds many months of forensic testing to the state's timetable (and they know that baez will eventually get the forensic results and will want to have defense experts analyze those forensic results and perhaps run tests of their own).

[happygert]

Cindy discussing the father around the 3.00 mark

http://www.wftv.com/video/17566546/index.html

LOL wanting to know if they wanted him (the lawyer) to draw papers for alimony...LOL get the connection....she's talking about her attorney when she filed for divorce......no one asks when filing papers for custody in case of a death of a parent if they want alimony....child support yes alimony no roflmao :lol:.......mo

[KittyMom]

Wait, we don't know whether or not she received prenatal care, we're just assuming. We haven't had any information on that at all.

right. We've not had evidence that she did or did not receive care. Do I see Casey going to regular visits, taking vitamins, eating healthy and yet not telling her parents she having a baby...no. Also, how would she have paid for this care? I don't see her charging this to Cindy's health insurance and Cindy not questioning it. As for state benefits, I'm thinking one has to include all household income to receive benefits. Not sure Casey would qualify when considering her parents' income. Also, she's have to ask them for income records to turn in to the state. Wouoldn't they wonder why?

[ishkabibble]

That has always floored me, the great detail that she went into, WTH thinks like that?

And what employer is paying for a lowly event planners entourage!!!

[Tracian]

in the docs....Debbie Polisano stated Cindy said she was upset and complained that she always had Caylee


Yes, and DP told her to kick Casey out and take custody of Caylee. Cindy said she couldn't afford that...which I still don't understand.

[WillowInFlight]

I agree! That whole thing is down right nutso! Doesn't pass the smell test. Okay, say Casey convinced Cindy that it was a "female problem". I would even MORE have her to the HOSPITAL, not the Dr., because if my young daughter had a tumor in her belly the size of a 7 month pregnancy, we WOULD get to the bottom of it! I feel like Cindy HAD to know, even if in denial that it was pregnancy or she would have to have thought Casey's live was in extreme danger and there is no evidence she sought treatment for an illness for Casey's expanding belly.

I have always believed that Cindy knew, and I'm with you, had that been my daughter I would have taken her to the hospital. If Cindy's claim of not knowing is true then she truly checked out of Casey's life.

[Myka]

I can't see her telling Mark he was Caylee's father when Caylee was already dead. Even if he was it, would just open a huge can of worms.
I think her trip to Cali was to hid Caylee's death from her parents by telling them Caylee was with her in Cali and then telling Mark, Caylee was in Florida. That situation would buy her time to concoct some big lie about something happening to Caylee in Cali and telling her parents she was dead from some illness or accident. She could say she was cremated.
good lord, could you imagine her getting some ashes out of a BBQ pit, putting them in an urn and telling Cindy, "Here's Caylee"........I know it sounds so unspeakable but that is something she would do.

[bhardy1956]

Remember this little boo-boo by Luka? What a dolt.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8151115&version=1&locale=EN-US

about the 1/2 way mark.

Maybe it wasn't... I'm just saying...

[Balesha]

Now Cindy is being blamed for Caylee's death? :sad:

Huh? What is this about????

[Tracian]

I agree! That whole thing is down right nutso! Doesn't pass the smell test. Okay, say Casey convinced Cindy that it was a "female problem". I would even MORE have her to the HOSPITAL, not the Dr., because if my young daughter had a tumor in her belly the size of a 7 month pregnancy, we WOULD get to the bottom of it! I feel like Cindy HAD to know, even if in denial that it was pregnancy or she would have to have thought Casey's live was in extreme danger and there is no evidence she sought treatment for an illness for Casey's expanding belly.


I agree...this family is just too bizarre.

[Pooh]

I can't see her telling Mark he was Caylee's father when Caylee was already dead. Even if he was it, would just open a huge can of worms.
I think her trip to Cali was to hid Caylee's death from her parents by telling them Caylee was with her in Cali and then telling Mark, Caylee was in Florida. That situation would buy her time to concoct some big lie about something happening to Caylee in Cali and telling her parents she was dead from some illness or accident. She could say she was cremated.

Hi ish! :seeya: I think you nailed it. The "surpise" was to tell Mark Hawkins she was moving to California. The rest of your post sounds exactly like something Casey had in her plans.

[KittyMom]

Now Cindy is being blamed for Caylee's death? :sad:

why not ask the originial poster that question

[Neffy]

I agree! That whole thing is down right nutso! Doesn't pass the smell test. Okay, say Casey convinced Cindy that it was a "female problem". I would even MORE have her to the HOSPITAL, not the Dr., because if my young daughter had a tumor in her belly the size of a 7 month pregnancy, we WOULD get to the bottom of it! I feel like Cindy HAD to know, even if in denial that it was pregnancy or she would have to have thought Casey's live was in extreme danger and there is no evidence she sought treatment for an illness for Casey's expanding belly.

And if Cindy loses her job or can't get employment you know Conway will blame the media and publicity. More like how dare they expose Cindy's working knowledge and applying it to her own personal real life for all to see. It's like having a drivers license and exposing someone driving on the sidewalks thru town going for a chauffers job. Same with George in his line of work.

Scary how many people hold jobs like this and they really shouldn't.

[Myka]

Yes, and DP told her to kick Casey out and take custody of Caylee. Cindy said she couldn't afford that...which I still don't understand.

maybe she ment she couldn't afford a lawyer for the custody?

[PuffDragon]

I think that is one of the saddest songs.....poor Puff....

I read on another site that conway has filed an order of protection against ZG's lawyer.....has this already been discussed or should I go find the link?

Against the lawyer? I hadn't heard anything about that.

I just did a quick search and didn't find anything. Maybe somebody else knows?

[Neffy]

I can't see her telling Mark he was Caylee's father when Caylee was already dead. Even if he was it, would just open a huge can of worms.
I think her trip to Cali was to hid Caylee's death from her parents by telling them Caylee was with her in Cali and then telling Mark, Caylee was in Florida. That situation would buy her time to concoct some big lie about something happening to Caylee in Cali and telling her parents she was dead from some illness or accident. She could say she was cremated.

OH GOOD GRIEF! How they normally decided to not confront Casey that would have been that.

[happygert]

lol without getting too graphic, I can think of a way "Casey" and "Job" would fit in a sentence lol:rolleyes:

OHMY::ohmy:

[margaritaville]

That has always floored me, the great detail that she went into, WTH thinks like that?


I know....... I was thinking the same thing!! WOW.. She has details upon details of days and days of Casey that NEVER happened.

Casey was never in Tampa with Zanny........there was never this car accident. heck, these people are all make believe and the details just go on and on and on........ I can't wrap my head around how Casey can lie and completely make up entire days of her life on a whim........

[Tracian]

maybe she ment she couldn't afford a lawyer for the custody?


It really is not that expensive, also, who cares about expense when you are worried about the welfare of a child, especially your own grandchild. Casey was leeching off of them, Cindy claimed to people that her daughter was unfit, and a sociopath, she stole from her grandparents, if Cindy would have allowed charges to be pressed for that theft, she could have gotten Caylee without much fuss.

[AlohaRainbow]

Against the lawyer? I hadn't heard anything about that.

I just did a quick search and didn't find anything. Maybe somebody else knows?
i could see conway asking for an order of protection for deposition testimony - eg so that the depostions are taken in private setting and the transcripts not made public (in response to the announcement by zanaida's atty that he would hold a "public" deposition with the media present, iirc)

[summer4meplz]

I have long felt that those questions Cindy was asking were all pre-arranged with Casey before her arrest. They knew they were being recorded...it was all part of the act.


I just can't look at cindy and george and listen to them on those jailhouse tapes without being convinced they are completely heartbroken .....I think THEY think Caylee might still be alive because they want to believe that.....the dead body smell was someone else's...in their mind....believing casey's lies.......is the only way they might possibly find Caylee......a LIVE Caylee.....I don't know at what point they finally ACCEPTED that Caylee is dead.......this is the reason this case is so compelling to us......the people involved have behaved so badly...in every sense of the word.....

I've gone from the entire anthony family has planned a scam on the public that went horribly wrong......to .....gee....they ACT so heartbroken...since the tapes have been released.....

I'm just a wishywashrag.....I just want to know what happened.....I think if her fingerprints are found on the duct tape sticky side....maybe I will be satisified until trial........:tonguewag:

[KittyMom]

I know....... I was thinking the same thing!! WOW.. She has details upon details of days and days of Casey that NEVER happened.

Casey was never in Tampa with Zanny........there was never this car accident. heck, these people are all make believe and the details just go on and on and on........ I can't wrap my head around how Casey can lie and completely make up entire days of her life on a whim........

All those details about a person Cindy never even met and yet it took LE showing her a video she posted on myspace for her to confirm the last day she actually saw Caylee. :confused:

[CC I See]

maybe she ment she couldn't afford a lawyer for the custody?..... I guess it has to do with priorities.

[Stella Rose]

Yes, I'm sure you're right. Anybody want to take on the gardening gloves test?

I wonder... if fabric gloves were used - would a 'fabric print' be matchable if say, they found the gloves at the Anthony's house...

wouldn't prove which one of them did it, but it's an interesting thought.

[?noanswer]

LOL wanting to know if they wanted him (the lawyer) to draw papers for alimony...LOL get the connection....she's talking about her attorney when she filed for divorce......no one asks when filing papers for custody in case of a death of a parent if they want alimony....child support yes alimony no roflmao :lol:.......mo

IIRC when LE contacted the attorney, he denied that any of this took place. JMO

[AlohaRainbow]

I wonder... if fabric gloves were used - would a 'fabric print' be matchable if say, they found the gloves at the Anthony's house...

wouldn't prove which one of them did it, but it's an interesting thought.
good point :)

eta - i think i have seen a case or two on 'forensic files' where they were able to get fingerprints from the inside of gloves.

wouldn't that be a smoking gun in this case! if they could recover gloves from the anthony's home with a "fabric print" match to the duct tape, and those gloves also have casey's fingerprints inside

[KittyMom]

I wonder... if fabric gloves were used - would a 'fabric print' be matchable if say, they found the gloves at the Anthony's house...

wouldn't prove which one of them did it, but it's an interesting thought.

cloth gloves would still leave fibers, right?

[CC I See]

I know....... I was thinking the same thing!! WOW.. She has details upon details of days and days of Casey that NEVER happened.

Casey was never in Tampa with Zanny........there was never this car accident. heck, these people are all make believe and the details just go on and on and on........ I can't wrap my head around how Casey can lie and completely make up entire days of her life on a whim........She is delusional with in a family who enabled her to stay in her little world.

[Neffy]

I know....... I was thinking the same thing!! WOW.. She has details upon details of days and days of Casey that NEVER happened.

Casey was never in Tampa with Zanny........there was never this car accident. heck, these people are all make believe and the details just go on and on and on........ I can't wrap my head around how Casey can lie and completely make up entire days of her life on a whim........

That's why her friends are so freaked out especially TonE. No one saw one thing wrong. No agitation no nothing from Casey. Just another day.

Another one is Cindy. When the detectives confronted her to "clean her chalkboard" of chasing ghosts that none of what Casey said to her was true. First she "wouldn't" listen and then her attitude along the lines was ok well ok. I"M A GRIEVING GRANDMOTHER! What the heck
was that?

I would have been devastated not confrontational or changing the subject.

Scary , scary people.

[summer4meplz]

Against the lawyer? I hadn't heard anything about that.

I just did a quick search and didn't find anything. Maybe somebody else knows?


I posted the link....it's real close....lol

[?noanswer]

Yes, and DP told her to kick Casey out and take custody of Caylee. Cindy said she couldn't afford that...which I still don't understand.

My impression was the legal cost. If only she had know then what she knows now!!! Those legal costs would have been peanuts in comparison. JMO

[need2no]

What tells me that this guy may not know if it's true Cindy went thru the trouble of getting an attorney for guardian ship of Caylee, why didn't they ask the father to meet them there to sign over custody rights. That would carry the weight not their back door guardianship nonsense.

If the father were deceased and something happened to Casey, Caylee being brought up in the home and raised by Cindy and George anyway there wouldn't have been a problem in making it legal.

This is BS that Casey and the father had an understanding. Hogwash.

Not only that somewhere it's written that LEE put his two cents in regarding this and that they do in fact know who the father is but out of RESPECT they are not contacting them at this time.

Ripley's believe it or not...some states have a little known law that a bio dad has to complete some kind of legal form claiming paternity and have it properly filed with the state to secure their paternity rights. There is a strict timeline allotted for completion of this paperwork, and if not done by the deadline and filed, all their rights as the bio father are permanently revoked.

I watched this on a Dr. Phil show about a year ago. The young man did not know he had impregnanted the girl. I don't recall how he found out the baby she had was his, but she was trying to put the child up for adoption and this teen dad wanted to take custody of his child. The girl and her parents told him they would not agree to this and had already found a suitable adoptive family for the baby girl. (They were already friends with this family.) Each side hired attorneys but his case was thrown out of court because he did not complete this legal paperwork by the deadline claiming his paternity rights.

Even the attorneys from both sides stated this was a strange legal loophold adversely and unfairly affecting men in some states, and almost no one has ever even heard of these requirements, but they do exist and hold up in court. I don't recall which states have this law.

[Myka]

It really is not that expensive, also, who cares about expense when you are worried about the welfare of a child, especially your own grandchild. Casey was leeching off of them, Cindy claimed to people that her daughter was unfit, and a sociopath, she stole from her grandparents, if Cindy would have allowed charges to be pressed for that theft, she could have gotten Caylee without much fuss.

I was thinking the same, if Casey was locked up for the theft, then Caylee would be in Cindy's custody

[happy2bme]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202271-2320%20f.pdf


Found where she told JG about Lee. Page 48

[margaritaville]

I just can't look at cindy and george and listen to them on those jailhouse tapes without being convinced they are completely heartbroken .....I think THEY think Caylee might still be alive because they want to believe that.....the dead body smell was someone else's...in their mind....believing casey's lies.......is the only way they might possibly find Caylee......a LIVE Caylee.....I don't know at what point they finally ACCEPTED that Caylee is dead.......this is the reason this case is so compelling to us......the people involved have behaved so badly...in every sense of the word.....

I've gone from the entire anthony family has planned a scam on the public that went horribly wrong......to .....gee....they ACT so heartbroken...since the tapes have been released.....

I'm just a wishywashrag.....I just want to know what happened.....I think if her fingerprints are found on the duct tape sticky side....maybe I will be satisified until trial........:tonguewag:

But Cindy and George now know that everything Casey had told them was a lie..
I mean Casey told them she was with Zanny from the 16-20 then in Tampa until the 24th ......they know that is not true........
Wasn't it during that time the gas cans were stolen from her and the video of her and TonE at the video rental store??
I mean, C'mon they have to know by now that as much as Cindy wanted the police to think that Zanny is either Amy or Jesse that actually Zanny is Casey...

I think they are heartbroken also.......I think they loved Caylee very much........ George was willing to kill himself to be with her again......Speaks volumes to me on his love for Caylee.

I am waiting for the day that they publicly admit that they believe Casey killed Caylee...........

MOO

[happygert]

maybe she ment she couldn't afford a lawyer for the custody?

I guess not...She could afford to pay for everything of casey's but imo Caylee wasn't as important as paying people back for all the money casey stole..to keep her azz out of jail...paying for casey's insurance possible car payments, money to party, money for clothes ... But wasn't it cindy who said she paid for everything for Caylee... seem to me she would have got the attorney and filed papers when she knew casey was unfit.....nope that didnt happen...IMO cindy wanted to look like the MATYR ..She didnt want custody of Caylee she just like to threaten to keep casey under her control..,,,jmho........Caylee was a thorn in all the A womens side..I Think GA was truly the one who did most with Caylee..JMO...Another thing she could have called cps and if they thought as cindy did they would have helped with the court case to give cindy temp. custody until casey was proved a fit mom.....jmo

[summer4meplz]

cloth gloves would still leave fibers, right?


the thing about the tape is that casey probably used it to shut Caylee up.....which means she was doing it fast and never thought about evidence....she just wanted to "shut the kid up"....unless she put the duct tape on after Caylee was dead and she WAS thinking about evidence.....anyway..:confused:

[KKKKKKatie]

That's why her friends are so freaked out especially TonE. No one saw one thing wrong. No agitation no nothing from Casey. Just another day.

Another one is Cindy. When the detectives confronted her to "clean her chalkboard" of chasing ghosts that none of what Casey said to her was true. First she "wouldn't" listen and then her attitude along the lines was ok well ok. I"M A GRIEVING GRANDMOTHER! What the heck
was that?

I would have been devastated not confrontational or changing the subject.

Scary , scary people.

Careful Neffy....you are going to be told you have know idea how you would act unless you have been thru the same thing.

As a 60 year old mother and grandmother I do know exactly how I would act....My life experience tells me so.

[WillowInFlight]

All those details about a person Cindy never even met and yet it took LE showing her a video she posted on myspace for her to confirm the last day she actually saw Caylee. :confused:

I could never understand that, Maybe because I'm not a "date" person, but it would have been normal for me to just say Father's day.

[Pooh]

But Cindy and George now know that everything Casey had told them was a lie..
I mean Casey told them she was with Zanny from the 16-20 then in Tampa until the 24th ......they know that is not true........
Wasn't it during that time the gas cans were stolen from her and the video of her and TonE at the video rental store??
I mean, C'mon they have to know by now that as much as Cindy wanted the police to think that Zanny is either Amy or Jesse that actually Zanny is Casey...

I think they are heartbroken also.......I think they loved Caylee very much........ George was willing to kill himself to be with her again......Speaks volumes to me on his love for Caylee.

I am waiting for the day that they publicly admit that they believe Casey killed Caylee...........

MOO

Not only that, but her cell phone pings speak volumes about her lies! She obviously wasn't where she told Cindy and George she was.

[FoxySly]

in the docs....Debbie Polisano stated Cindy said she was upset and complained that she always had Caylee

I agree that casey sure as heck didn't seem to want to be bothered being a real 'Mother' but...

Jesse stated on NG that he tried to talk casey into putting the baby up for adoption because they were not ready to be parents yet & casey got all mad at him & said she was not going to carry that baby just to give it away.
Jesse has never gave me any cause to think he's a liar. IMO casey has many faces & shows which ever one she want to show at what ever given moment... like also telling her friend that cindy wouldn't let her give it up for adoption.

Strange also that at casey's age she could do what she wanted so what cindy said didn't matter unless casey was scared about not getting her free living from cindy & for the life of me I can't see anyone wanting to live there even for free.

One way strange 'family'.

Sly

[summer4meplz]

But Cindy and George now know that everything Casey had told them was a lie..
I mean Casey told them she was with Zanny from the 16-20 then in Tampa until the 24th ......they know that is not true........
Wasn't it during that time the gas cans were stolen from her and the video of her and TonE at the video rental store??
I mean, C'mon they have to know by now that as much as Cindy wanted the police to think that Zanny is either Amy or Jesse that actually Zanny is Casey...

I think they are heartbroken also.......I think they loved Caylee very much........ George was willing to kill himself to be with her again......Speaks volumes to me on his love for Caylee.

I am waiting for the day that they publicly admit that they believe Casey killed Caylee...........

MOO


I have to keep in mind that these tapes were more than 6 months old....I'm just saying at the time of the tapes....they're behavior makes me think that all 3 of them thought Caylee MIGHT still be alive which means it definitely WASN'T a big family scam that had been planned since March.....

so I can at least mark that one off my long list of possibilities...

[happygert]

I was thinking the same, if Casey was locked up for the theft, then Caylee would be in Cindy's custody

Yes more then likely who else was going to take her unless cps took her...it's all a bunch of BS cindy could have done something .....but no she wanted every ones attention to say oh poor cindy look what she's going thru.......mo

If it was between my car and my grandchild the car would have to go.. Take the money from the payments and pay an attorney.. take casey's car an drive it.......no job, no need for the car.......she would have to figure out away to get her own.......period.

[Pooh]

I guess not...She could afford to pay for everything of casey's but imo Caylee wasn't as important as paying people back for all the money casey stole..to keep her azz out of jail...paying for casey's insurance possible car payments, money to party, money for clothes ... But wasn't it cindy who said she paid for everything for Caylee... seem to me she would have got the attorney and filed papers when she knew casey was unfit.....nope that didnt happen...IMO cindy wanted to look like the MATYR ..She didnt want custody of Caylee she just like to threaten to keep casey under her control..,,,jmho........Caylee was a thorn in all the A womens side..I Think GA was truly the one who did most with Caylee..JMO...Another thing she could have called cps and if they thought as cindy did they would have helped with the court case to give cindy temp. custody until casey was proved a fit mom.....jmo

I think the reason why Cindy didn't go through with getting custody of Caylee was because Cindy feared the Rath of Casey. Cindy only pushed Casey so far, then backed off. No way would she push Casey that far. imo

[KKKKKKatie]

I have to keep in mind that these tapes were more than 6 months old....I'm just saying at the time of the tapes....they're behavior makes me think that all 3 of them thought Caylee MIGHT still be alive which means it definitely WASN'T a big family scam that had been planned since March.....

so I can at least mark that one off my long list of possibilities...

I agree summer

[margaritaville]

That's why her friends are so freaked out especially TonE. No one saw one thing wrong. No agitation no nothing from Casey. Just another day.

Another one is Cindy. When the detectives confronted her to "clean her chalkboard" of chasing ghosts that none of what Casey said to her was true. First she "wouldn't" listen and then her attitude along the lines was ok well ok. I"M A GRIEVING GRANDMOTHER! What the heck
was that?

I would have been devastated not confrontational or changing the subject.

Scary , scary people.

I don't remember that... Was she told that about the same time that she started ripping on LE and telling the media that they are not helping find her GD and blah blah blah???


Cindy being confrontational I suspect would be because she didn't want to believe what she was hearing?! I think she still wants to put it on some one else.......But when do you say enough is enough, everything points to Casey so Casey did it??



MOO

[Pooh]

the thing about the tape is that casey probably used it to shut Caylee up.....which means she was doing it fast and never thought about evidence....she just wanted to "shut the kid up"....unless she put the duct tape on after Caylee was dead and she WAS thinking about evidence.....anyway..:confused:

ITA. My theory is she pulled over on the side of the road and slapped that tape on her to keep her from crying for Cindy after they left the house after the fight on the 15th. I think she did it in a fit of rage and the tape covered the mouth AND nose. I bet her fingerprints are ALL OVER that tape. imo

[witchywoman]

But I'm a MAGICdragon, my colors are beautiful, even the green!!!:biggrin:

It is my belife, mo that dragons are magickal, they are gaurdians, protectors, lol jmo

hello every body, got my work done 2day, so now lurking quietly

[FoxySly]

lol without getting too graphic, I can think of a way "Casey" and "Job" would fit in a sentence lol:rolleyes:


umm, kinda like 'truth' & 'anthony's' IMO

Sly

[cuddlyrunner]

Any sign of the reported doc dump yet?

[Pooh]

Any sign of the reported doc dump yet?

haven't seen anything yet, cuddly.

[KKKKKKatie]

Any sign of the reported doc dump yet?


one of the reporters on NG last night said it would be next week :shrug:

[BJames]

I have figured for a while the reason why they never confronted Casey was because they were 'afraid' of her, not physically...but they never wanted to upset the apple cart. The only thing I can figure that she could hold over them is never letting them see Caylee again, unless there is indeed a dark family secret in there.
Honestly.
Cindy never challenged Casey on that 'car accident'..even to the point when LE told her that Casey had NOT been out of the county..it could not have been true. Day after day Casey gives her an excuse as to why she can't see Caylee...right up to the point that Cindy finds her at TonE's, and she is still saying the child is with the Nanny.
The same 'Nanny' that was with them during the 'car accident', that was watching the children during a business trip...but now she is not only hurt...she stole the same girl she didn't charge anything to care for because she loved her too much...?...and nobody can say anything because she might kill her? Yikes...!


I sure hope Jose Baez has his hip waders on..he's going to need them :unsure:

Just my opinion of course...

[happygert]

IIRC when LE contacted the attorney, he denied that any of this took place. JMO

Exactly.....said he didnt know who they were talking about...that why i said get the connection ..she was talking about her frigging divorce about the alimony never was an attorney for custody..if something had happened to casey..

[KatieKates]

It really is not that expensive, also, who cares about expense when you are worried about the welfare of a child, especially your own grandchild. Casey was leeching off of them, Cindy claimed to people that her daughter was unfit, and a sociopath, she stole from her grandparents, if Cindy would have allowed charges to be pressed for that theft, she could have gotten Caylee without much fuss.

You're assuming she would have won, she would not have. And all that money would have been wasted. Also, maybe Casey would have taken Caylee away forever and maybe that was a huge concern for Cindy. I can see why she never went through with it.

I know no one ever wants harm to come to a child and maybe that's why all the blame for Cindy. Could have, would have, should have. IMO.

[bballgrl]

this is easier lol


http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8344871&version=1&locale=EN-US

OMG - These people keep throwing around that word: "Circus!" LOL

[need2no]

It really is not that expensive, also, who cares about expense when you are worried about the welfare of a child, especially your own grandchild. Casey was leeching off of them, Cindy claimed to people that her daughter was unfit, and a sociopath, she stole from her grandparents, if Cindy would have allowed charges to be pressed for that theft, she could have gotten Caylee without much fuss.

Hiya Tracian, good to 'see' you again.

If casey would have tried to fight Cindy and George taking custody of Caylee she would have had to rely on legal aid to represent her since she had no source of income. I doubt it would have been much of a battle. casey was an partying, unemployed high school drop out, liar and thief who didn't even own a car, let alone have the means to support her daughter. It would have taken little effort to prove casey was incapable of supporting Caylee and providing a stable life for her.

I think Cindy was fearful the issue of the baby daddy would have to be proven in court if she tried to get custody. I also don't think Cindy really wanted to get custody, rather she used the money excuse since everyone who heard her complaints about casey were encouraging her to do the right thing by the child. Cindy also like using this threat against casey.

[lovelaw]

I have figured for a while the reason why they never confronted Casey was because they were 'afraid' of her, not physically...but they never wanted to upset the apple cart. The only thing I can figure that she could hold over them is never letting them see Caylee again, unless there is indeed a dark family secret in there.
Honestly.
Cindy never challenged Casey on that 'car accident'..even to the point when LE told her that Casey had NOT been out of the county..it could not have been true. Day after day Casey gives her an excuse as to why she can't see Caylee...right up to the point that Cindy finds her at TonE's, and she is still saying the child is with the Nanny.
The same 'Nanny' that was with them during the 'car accident', that was watching the children during a business trip...but now she is not only hurt...she stole the same girl she didn't charge anything to care for because she loved her too much...?...and nobody can say anything because she might kill her? Yikes...!


I sure hope Jose Baez has his hip waders on..he's going to need them :unsure:

Just my opinion of course...


It is chilling, the lengths Casey went to keep Caylee's being missing from her mother!~ And, it is BEYOND belief that her mom didn't get a little suspicious!~ Good points all, BJ!~

HIP WADERS, indeed!~ He might need a SNORKEL too!~ He is going under!!~

[PuffDragon]

Kudos to you my fellow sleuth!

Puff my new and improved :smile: Mr. Clean Mega Grip gloves state they are made from high quality natural rubber latex, and yes I would say they are definitely thicker, heavier than the 'doctor type' of gloves.

The duct tape I used seems to be just general household type weight. When I stuck my finger on it (minus gloves) it didn't really seem to be very sticky. However, the gloves sure did stick to it. I looked on the inside of the roll but it doesn't provide any specifics about the tape. Like you, I also felt the tape was highly attracted to the gloves, and found it challenging to even get the tape started while wearing the gloves.

I've found some heavier cloth type duct tape, and I have some 'doctor' gloves I use for furniture refinishing and craft projects, so I'm going to experiment some more. I'll let you know what I find....unless we get that doc dump with the tape/finger prints results first. :wink:

Good going n2n! I wish I'd thought about getting the end off the roll, I always leave all my rolls with a flap over to make it easier to find the end and I'm so used to doing it that way that I didn't even consider it I should have started from flat. Bad investigative technique!! Going back and thinking about it, yes, I'm imagining it as very difficult to get that end loose with those gloves on.

I think that other tape you're referring to is what they were calling 'gaffer's tape' on this board some weeks ago, I've used it doing dramatic productions, the adhesive is different and tends not to leave a residue on the floor and flats. It will be interesting to see how you do with that. Ummm, while you're at it, want to throw a few ungloved fingers on it too and see what the prints look like?

[Unperson1984]

It really is not that expensive, also, who cares about expense when you are worried about the welfare of a child, especially your own grandchild. Casey was leeching off of them, Cindy claimed to people that her daughter was unfit, and a sociopath, she stole from her grandparents, if Cindy would have allowed charges to be pressed for that theft, she could have gotten Caylee without much fuss.

Things must be very different in Florida, because in California custody cases are very expensive. And it is the type of case for which the attorney demands a sizable retainer to start the case.

This would have been a near impossible case to win, the only thing going against Casey would have been her lack of a job. We have to remember that Caylee wasn’t an abused child prior to June 16th and there is a legal presumption that a child should stay with the natural parent if at all possible. Even a theft conviction wouldn't guarantee Cindy's success since for a first offense it's doubtful Casey would get jail time.

The thing about a custody challenge is that if the grandparent isn’t successful it’s likely they aren’t going to see much of their grandchild in the future.

[happygert]

the thing about the tape is that casey probably used it to shut Caylee up.....which means she was doing it fast and never thought about evidence....she just wanted to "shut the kid up"....unless she put the duct tape on after Caylee was dead and she WAS thinking about evidence.....anyway..:confused:

but if she was using duct tape on reg basis it would have left red marks when taken off and those marks last a long period of time..and btw it hurst when taken off the face..

[WillowInFlight]

I think this is just more of the same with regard to Cindy. She unloads her frustrations by complaining about and name-calling Casey to select people, but she doesn't really want or take advice, because she's sure she's got all the answers.

I see her as both controlling and arrogant. She wanted to control Casey, Caylee, and everything else in her orbit, and she was so arrogant that no matter how the evidence mounted that she was blowing it big time, she just kept right on doing what she does.

And she appears to still be at it. If the death of her granddaughter at the hands of her daughter doesn't rock her back on her heels, humble her and cause her to take a serious look at how she might have contributed to the outcome, I don't think anything ever will.

I don't think there's much hope for any sort of awakening for Cindy.

You are so right What, I don't ever think Cindy will appear humble, though we only see what she wants us to see, I would love to know what she's like these days behind closed doors.

[RiverWalk]

Maybe it wasn't... I'm just saying...

Too true! ––––

[Barbara fl.]

Ripley's believe it or not...some states have a little known law that a bio dad has to complete some kind of legal form claiming paternity and have it properly filed with the state to secure their paternity rights. There is a strict timeline allotted for completion of this paperwork, and if not done by the deadline and filed, all their rights as the bio father are permanently revoked.

I watched this on a Dr. Phil show about a year ago. The young man did not know he had impregnanted the girl. I don't recall how he found out the baby she had was his, but she was trying to put the child up for adoption and this teen dad wanted to take custody of his child. The girl and her parents told him they would not agree to this and had already found a suitable adoptive family for the baby girl. (They were already friends with this family.) Each side hired attorneys but his case was thrown out of court because he did not complete this legal paperwork by the deadline claiming his paternity rights.

Even the attorneys from both sides stated this was a strange legal loophold adversely and unfairly affecting men in some states, and almost no one has ever even heard of these requirements, but they do exist and hold up in court. I don't recall which states have this law.



I would love to know what state this was....because I've had numerous dealings on such and have never heard of this law....In Florida, a man can come forward at anytime once found out that he could be the father and start proceedings (I imagine it would stop when the child reached 18) but until then the father has the right....I have never heard of a time line if the father wasn't aware that he was the father...

Now, if the father doesn't show for the paternity test...he can then lose by default and be considered the father and be made to pay child support if that's what it was about....and in the circumstance that the fathers rights will be terminated...he will then have a chance to prove paternity by DNA...then go in front of a judge to establish paternity...Then he will be considered the legal father of said child....But if he wasn't aware of the pregnancy and then found out that the child was his, he would be able to stop all adoption proceedings......BUT, once an adoption has gone thru it would be almost impossible for him to have it overturned......

But adoption agencies have the obligation of seeking out the father before any adoption would go thru and if they don't then they leave themselves liable.......

[joint-heir]

See paternity is being discussed this morning. I too wonder why they noted to compare Lee's DNA.

But my thinking is IF this was possibly the case, wouldn't Casey have told Cindy and Cindy being a nurse, wouldn't she be a little afraid of having possible health or mental problems with a baby of two siblings? Or would Cindy not believe Casey. Because it was said she told Casey no to adopting out. This is my reasoning for not thinking Lee.

What I recall about the possibilities was second handed from Casey to Jesse and Tony A. And was very vague like "Lee touched her" And GA "abused her". No more explanation at least that we have seen.

[WillowInFlight]

but if she was using duct tape on reg basis it would have left red marks when taken off and those marks last a long period of time..and btw it hurst when taken off the face..

yep, and I would imagine a 2 year olds facial skin is very tender.

[num1barb]

Ripley's believe it or not...some states have a little known law that a bio dad has to complete some kind of legal form claiming paternity and have it properly filed with the state to secure their paternity rights. There is a strict timeline allotted for completion of this paperwork, and if not done by the deadline and filed, all their rights as the bio father are permanently revoked.

I watched this on a Dr. Phil show about a year ago. The young man did not know he had impregnanted the girl. I don't recall how he found out the baby she had was his, but she was trying to put the child up for adoption and this teen dad wanted to take custody of his child. The girl and her parents told him they would not agree to this and had already found a suitable adoptive family for the baby girl. (They were already friends with this family.) Each side hired attorneys but his case was thrown out of court because he did not complete this legal paperwork by the deadline claiming his paternity rights.

Even the attorneys from both sides stated this was a strange legal loophold adversely and unfairly affecting men in some states, and almost no one has ever even heard of these requirements, but they do exist and hold up in court. I don't recall which states have this law.

I know Texas does have this law. The son of a friend of mine who lives there only had 30 days IIRC after the birth to file a "notice of paternity" or "aknowledgement of paternity" or something like that.

[Unperson1984]

If her fingerprints aren't all over that tape.......it'll be more evidence in my mind that it was premeditated. JMHO Though at this point I lean toward that conclusion anyway.

I don't have high hopes for evidence from the duct tape, but I don't think the lack of fingerprints will impact the verdict. In the Peterson case the only fingerprints on the duct tape belonged to an unknown person and the jury still came back with 1st degree murder.

[SavannahStar]

Things must be very different in Florida, because in California custody cases are very expensive. And it is the type of case for which the attorney demands a sizable retainer to start the case.

This would have been a near impossible case to win, the only thing going against Casey would have been her lack of a job. We have to remember that Caylee wasn’t an abused child prior to June 16th and there is a legal presumption that a child should stay with the natural parent if at all possible. Even a theft conviction wouldn't guarantee Cindy's success since for a first offense it's doubtful Casey would get jail time.

The thing about a custody challenge is that if the grandparent isn’t successful it’s likely they aren’t going to see much of their grandchild in the future.

Excellent post, Unperson.

[joint-heir]

Another thing I was wondering about. If a person goes to jail and is using drugs, wouldn't he or she have withdrawal symptoms?

[happygert]

You're assuming she would have won, she would not have. And all that money would have been wasted. Also, maybe Casey would have taken Caylee away forever and maybe that was a huge concern for Cindy. I can see why she never went through with it.

I know no one ever wants harm to come to a child and maybe that's why all the blame for Cindy. Could have, would have, should have. IMO.

You assuming cindy wouldn't have won... I'm betting she would have..My brother's stepdaughter just like casey.no job, no money except what she stole party party, no home.. Brother and his wife have custody of the baby... and guess where mommy is now? DOC..

Im so tired of cindy and everyone making excuses for her it's sickening..cindy did not do anything because she didnt want to... Not because she couldn't it's because she wouldn't......period......cindy made her choice for which one to protect. IT sure was NOT Caylee. now let her live with it
jmho.......

[PuffDragon]

Didn't George say Caylee had a white backpack the last time he saw her?

I was reading Lee's interview transcripts. On page 18, http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%20Lee%20Anthony%20July%2029,%202008.pdf (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/01%20Lee%20Anthony%20July%2029,%202008.pdf) he explained to LE about going to TonE's and picking up Casey's things. He said, "So uh, the laptop, uhm, a very large, uhm, leopard print duffel band that had all of her clothing and items uhm, in there. Uhm, a uhm, a backpack, a white backpack with kind of a uh, you know, a pattern or you know, a symbol on that uh, that also had some more clothing items in there...."

Could this have been Caylee's backpack? :shrug:

Are there any measurements of that backpack in the doc dumps? Obviously a child's backback is a lot smaller than an adult's, it wouldn't be very useful for holding too many adult items. We could tell if we had measurements.

[Dells]

But Cindy and George now know that everything Casey had told them was a lie..
I mean Casey told them she was with Zanny from the 16-20 then in Tampa until the 24th ......they know that is not true........
Wasn't it during that time the gas cans were stolen from her and the video of her and TonE at the video rental store??
I mean, C'mon they have to know by now that as much as Cindy wanted the police to think that Zanny is either Amy or Jesse that actually Zanny is Casey...

I think they are heartbroken also.......I think they loved Caylee very much........ George was willing to kill himself to be with her again......Speaks volumes to me on his love for Caylee.

I am waiting for the day that they publicly admit that they believe Casey killed Caylee...........

MOO

Bolding mine.......

I am too, but if they ever do that, then it would be after the trial.

[Puffybubble]

It is a reasonable assumption. Casey was not working, so she would have no insurance, unless she was on state aid, which never came out, she would have to have money to go to a doctor. According to the family, no one knew that Casey was pregnant, or admitted it until she was about 7 months along.


Casey was working at Universal when she got pregnant and was fired when Caylee was about 8 months old.

[need2no]

Good going n2n! I wish I'd thought about getting the end off the roll, I always leave all my rolls with a flap over to make it easier to find the end and I'm so used to doing it that way that I didn't even consider it I should have started from flat. Bad investigative technique!! Going back and thinking about it, yes, I'm imagining it as very difficult to get that end loose with those gloves on.

I think that other tape you're referring to is what they were calling 'gaffer's tape' on this board some weeks ago, I've used it doing dramatic productions, the adhesive is different and tends not to leave a residue on the floor and flats. It will be interesting to see how you do with that. Ummm, while you're at it, want to throw a few ungloved fingers on it too and see what the prints look like?


Yes, I followed the discussion on the board about gaffers tape and even did a google search on it-lol. This reminds me of casey's text msg. from Amy...something about using up all her tape that she left in her purse...so did the tape casey used come from what she took from Amy?

As for the fingerprint on the tape,...I actually mashed my thumbprint on the tape and could not see it with the naked eye, or with a magnifying glass, unlike scotch tape where a print is very visible. I guess finding prints on duct tape requires more sophisticated equipment than a magnifying glass. :biggrin:

[KatieKates]

You assuming cindy wouldn't have won... I'm betting she would have..My brother's stepdaughter just like casey.no job, no money except what she stole party party, no home.. Brother and his wife have custody of the baby... and guess where mommy is now? DOC..

Im so tired of cindy and everyone making excuses for her it's sickening..cindy did not do anything because she didnt want to... Not because she couldn't it's because she wouldn't......period......cindy made her choice for which one to protect. IT sure was NOT Caylee. now let her live with it
jmho.......

It could have gone either way, is my point. Cindy didn't know her daughter was going to kill her grandchild, imo. If you're so tired, take a step away for a little while and come back when you're rested. JMO.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

[SavannahStar]

Another thing I was wondering about. If a person goes to jail and is using drugs, wouldn't he or she have withdrawal symptoms?


I'm sure it would depend upon the type of drug.

[summer4meplz]

but if she was using duct tape on reg basis it would have left red marks when taken off and those marks last a long period of time..and btw it hurst when taken off the face..


I meant on June 15.....ITA it wouldn't be something she would ever had done before.....

[BJames]

See paternity is being discussed this morning. I too wonder why they noted to compare Lee's DNA. <<<<snipping only to address>>>>

What I recall about the possibilities was second handed from Casey to Jesse and Tony A. And was very vague like "Lee touched her" And GA "abused her". No more explanation at least that we have seen.

And from everything we have heard about Casey...she is not a 'vague' person.
Everything has a 'story'..or so it seems. When (we know) she is lying it turns into a novel with magical people and places, special events and more than a 'few' details.
Ms. Casey Anthony 'mentioning' something without details and embelishments would perk my ears right up...maybe that is one of the reasons these two guys remembered it? Casey never seems too short of breath when telling a 'story'...but then again, she isn't known to tell the 'truth' either....maybe every once in a while the 'truth' slips out?...or maybe she read it some place?...Or saw a movie....?


Just my opinion of course..

[IM4Truth]

I would love to know what state this was....because I've had numerous dealings on such and have never heard of this law....In Florida, a man can come forward at anytime once found out that he could be the father and start proceedings (I imagine it would stop when the child reached 18) but until then the father has the right....I have never heard of a time line if the father wasn't aware that he was the father...

Now, if the father doesn't show for the paternity test...he can then lose by default and be considered the father and be made to pay child support if that's what it was about....and in the circumstance that the fathers rights will be terminated...he will then have a chance to prove paternity by DNA...then go in front of a judge to establish paternity...Then he will be considered the legal father of said child....But if he wasn't aware of the pregnancy and then found out that the child was his, he would be able to stop all adoption proceedings......BUT, once an adoption has gone thru it would be almost impossible for him to have it overturned......

But adoption agencies have the obligation of seeking out the father before any adoption would go thru and if they don't then they leave themselves liable.......

When my daughter gave birth in Nov. (in Orlando) the baby's father only had 24 hours to get over to the county office (or whatever office it was, it was right there next to Winnie Palmer Hospital) to sign the documents if they wanted his name on the birth certificate. I found that interesting, only 24 hours.

[happygert]

Another thing I was wondering about. If a person goes to jail and is using drugs, wouldn't he or she have withdrawal symptoms?

depends on what kind of drugs.....opiates like heroin, prescriptions drug like vicodin, oxycodone. etc. they call it........ dope sick . alcohol..alcohol is the worse.if you drink everyday day in day out ..can kill you fast if not detoxed properly.you can have a stroke...... jmho

[IM4Truth]

but if she was using duct tape on reg basis it would have left red marks when taken off and those marks last a long period of time..and btw it hurst when taken off the face..

LOL why have you been putting duct tape on your face and pulling it off? I doubt Casey was doing this on a regular basis. Caylee would be able to let Cindy know in some way........unless, Caylee threatened her! But there would be red marks on the child's face.

[need2no]

I know Texas does have this law. The son of a friend of mine who lives there only had 30 days IIRC after the birth to file a "notice of paternity" or "aknowledgement of paternity" or something like that.


Thanks for sharing that, I thought everyone would think I was crazy. Yes, I do believe they said 30 days-wow.

When I saw this on Dr. Phil I was like :scared:, you've got to be kidding me, how could there be such a law in place!

[IM4Truth]

Another thing I was wondering about. If a person goes to jail and is using drugs, wouldn't he or she have withdrawal symptoms?

I don't think she was an habitual user, just recreational.

[happygert]

It could have gone either way, is my point. Cindy didn't know her daughter was going to kill her grandchild, imo. If you're so tired, take a step away for a little while and come back when you're rested. JMO.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

TIRED OF CINDY ....and everyone making excuses for her...IMO she's no better then casey... she did NOT PROTECT a 2 YEAROLD helpless defenseless BABY.... she choose to lie FOR the MURDERER...She made the choice of who to protect...and it WAS NOT the 2 year old granddaughter she claims to love so much. She made her bed now let her lie in it...I was going to say hope she lives with the guilt for the rest of her life......But Hey i know that wont happen she has no guilt... she's just as narcissistic as casey...

[FeelinFroggy617]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Anthony%20pgs%202271-2320%20f.pdf


Found where she told JG about Lee. Page 48


I just read this document...... there is a part where Tony said he recognized the garbage that was in Caseys car (at Amscot) to be his and that he couldn't explain why his garbage was in the back of her car. Did anyone ever figure this out?

[PuffDragon]

It is a reasonable assumption. Casey was not working, so she would have no insurance, unless she was on state aid, which never came out, she would have to have money to go to a doctor. According to the family, no one knew that Casey was pregnant, or admitted it until she was about 7 months along.

With Casey, who knows? I suppose it depends on how important she thought it was to see a doctor.
Of course it is a reasonable assumption that she didn't, but still an assumption. I can assume that she may have gone for one checkup to a walk-in clinic, or to an OB and paid cash (often a doctor will lower his price for an office visit when the patient has no insurance), or used a health card 'borrowed' from one of her friends. I have no doubt that Casey knows all the angles. Now do I think this happened? No, not really. But it's not an unreasonable assumption. No more than the assumption of having no prenatal care.

As I said earlier this morning, how did no one in that house have any inkling that she had some kind of issue? How could Nurse Cindy look at her getting rounder every week and not wonder why her 'female problems' weren't being taken care of? Wouldn't she eventually get worried enough to insist on going with her to one of her doctor's appointments?
We don't know anything. I wish we knew if Cindy made sure Casey had prenatals during those last two months at least. But who knows for sure? :shrug:

[IM4Truth]

It could have gone either way, is my point. Cindy didn't know her daughter was going to kill her grandchild, imo. If you're so tired, take a step away for a little while and come back when you're rested. JMO.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

I don't agree with all the Cindy bashing of "could have, would have, should have". Yes, she made her choices but I'm sure she had no eartlhy idea that Casey would ever harm Caylee. Caylee is dead now only because of one person Casey Marie Anthony. She made THAT choice.

[need2no]

It could have gone either way, is my point. Cindy didn't know her daughter was going to kill her grandchild, imo. If you're so tired, take a step away for a little while and come back when you're rested. JMO.

We're all entitled to our opinions.

Actually in your original post you said Cindy "would not have won", you didn't say it could have gone either way.

[happy2bme]

I am really leaning towards Caylee telling Cindy something Casey had done to her on the 15th and if there was a fight between them, that's what it was about. I don't think it was about the grandparents money. I think this is why she didn't tell about Caylee missing for 31 days. She knew Cindy would have known she had done something to Caylee. So she invented the nanny. Make sense?

[Tracian]

You're assuming she would have won, she would not have. And all that money would have been wasted. Also, maybe Casey would have taken Caylee away forever and maybe that was a huge concern for Cindy. I can see why she never went through with it.

I know no one ever wants harm to come to a child and maybe that's why all the blame for Cindy. Could have, would have, should have. IMO.

Casey already had a stolen from her grandparents...she was not working, and was not supporting her child.

How do you know that Cindy would not have 'won', she didn't even try.

[SavannahStar]

I don't agree with all the Cindy bashing of "could have, would have, should have". Yes, she made her choices but I'm sure she had no eartlhy idea that Casey would ever harm Caylee. Caylee is dead now only because of one person Casey Marie Anthony. She made THAT choice.


I totally agree with that post, IM4Truth.

[happygert]

LOL why have you been putting duct tape on your face and pulling it off? I doubt Casey was doing this on a regular basis. Caylee would be able to let Cindy know in some way........unless, Caylee threatened her! But there would be red marks on the child's face.

No my niece's teacher wrapped duct tape around her mouth all around her hair for talking in class.. Made her go like that all day.. Didnt even take it off at lunchtime 10 minutes before school was out she took it off Mindy.. when Mindy got home my brother went ballistic...even took some of her skin..HE was PIZZED call cops took her to police station they took pics called dcfs on the teacher went to board of ed...went to principals house and every board members house that night... Lets just say he won the lawsuit against school and teacher. she was in 3rd grade.....

[happy2bme]

I just read this document...... there is a part where Tony said he recognized the garbage that was in Caseys car (at Amscot) to be his and that he couldn't explain why his garbage was in the back of her car. Did anyone ever figure this out?

I think she she put it there thinking this could explain the smell. moo

[PuffDragon]

I am curious as to how you all are cutting the duct tape. Are you using scissors or a knife? This sounds silly but my father used duct tape like it was elmers glue when I was growing up. He would always use his teeth to start a tear in the tape and then pull to complete the cut. Does anyone know how the ends of the duct tape around CAYLEE's skull were cut when placed there? Is it possible that Casey cut the tape in this same manner (therefore leaving DNA)? Maybe that is what the dinnerware (knife) was for. I can't imagine her cutting a long enough piece, setting it down and then attaching it. Any ideas?

No way you could cut duct tape with a dinner knife. Not possible. I've never been able to tear the stuff as easily as my brothers do, I have to cut it with scissors. I don't think we ever got any specific information about the duct tape found on the skull. If I were doing it I'd stick the first end on, unroll the tape from the roll until I got to where I wanted to finish, then cut it and place the end down. Sometimes when I have tension on both ends like that I can start a nick and then tear it, it would be easier to do when wrapping.

[IM4Truth]

I just read this document...... there is a part where Tony said he recognized the garbage that was in Caseys car (at Amscot) to be his and that he couldn't explain why his garbage was in the back of her car. Did anyone ever figure this out?

I thought it was one of the roommates that identified the garbage because there was a receipt in it with his name on it. Someone told me that at Sutton Place where TonE lived (maybe still does), the dumpster is way in the back of the apartment complex and people often put their garbage in the car and drive back to the dumpsters. Casey was playing house at TonE's, cooking, cleaning, washing his clothes, probably even taking the garbage out. I think she probably just didn't take it back right away and therefore it was still in the car.

[5boxersmom]

I think she she put it there thinking this could explain the smell. moo

Or she was searching for info to steal some more money from someone.

jmo

[Tracian]

I don't agree with all the Cindy bashing of "could have, would have, should have". Yes, she made her choices but I'm sure she had no eartlhy idea that Casey would ever harm Caylee. Caylee is dead now only because of one person Casey Marie Anthony. She made THAT choice.


Again, I don't think it is bashing to review what we know about this family their actions before Caylee went missing, they way the behaved and out and out lied to LE, and the current immunity requests now.

I am sure Cindy didn't think that Casey would murder Caylee...but she certainly knew that Casey was unfit, and told people her daughter was a sociopath.

[Stella Rose]

lol without getting too graphic, I can think of a way "Casey" and "Job" would fit in a sentence lol:rolleyes:

Ouch! (good one Myka!)

[happygert]

I don't agree with all the Cindy bashing of "could have, would have, should have". Yes, she made her choices but I'm sure she had no eartlhy idea that Casey would ever harm Caylee. Caylee is dead now only because of one person Casey Marie Anthony. She made THAT choice.

Yes casey made the choice to kill Caylee however, cindy knew casey was an unfit parent way before casey killed her... cindy shoud have protected her years before the murder...and no way will I EVER BELIEVE cindy nor george never seen casey's rage towards Caylee.
NEVER... You dont go from fun loving mother of the year to a MURDERING MOM OVER NIGHT...just dont happen........moo...

[KatieKates]

Actually in your original post you said Cindy "would not have won", you didn't say it could have gone either way.

The other poster said it would have gone one way, I said the other, could have gone either way, mine or theirs. GMFB.

[KatieKates]

Casey already had a stolen from her grandparents...she was not working, and was not supporting her child.

How do you know that Cindy would not have 'won', she didn't even try.


They don't take children from their mother's because of domestic issues with the grandparents. I've never seen that happen in all my years working in social work. But then, you all seem to know different. :thumbdown:

[happy2bme]

Does to me. :smile:


I also think Casey was just a little frightened of Cindy.

[witchywoman]

Another thing I was wondering about. If a person goes to jail and is using drugs, wouldn't he or she have withdrawal symptoms?

mo, but depends on the drug...

eta, i meant yes..

I personaly kicked cocaine habit when serving time in prison...i did 3 yrs flat///

that was many moons ago...94-96

I have been clean since 1996....and in no trouble since that time

[num1barb]

Yes casey made the choice to kill Caylee however, cindy knew casey was an unfit parent way before casey killed her... cindy shoud have protected her years before the murder...and no way will I EVER BELIEVE cindy nor george never seen casey's rage towards Caylee.
NEVER... You dont go from fun loving mother of the year to a MURDERING MOM OVER NIGHT...just dont happen........moo...


IA.... Definitely.