Fact or Fiction: sorting it out

[PuffDragon]

I thought it would be good to sort through what is hearsay, fact or fiction. Brainstorming is better than arguing.

[PuffDragon]

Okay, here it is as promised.

I'll post what I already have in my lists and anybody can add to or discuss what's in them. But be prepared to defend your case if somebody challenges which list an item belongs in (or if it even belongs in a list). In fact, I encourage challenges. Some of these items I had a hard time assigning.

Only items with evidence to prove them belong in the 'Facts' list.
Only items that cannot be proven or corroborated go into the 'Hearsay' list.
Only items that can be proved to be untrue go into the 'Lies' list
Anything the Anthonys have stated can go into the 'Antspeak' list as long as they are attributed to the speaker, but need a T or an F to indicate whether what the statement says has been proven True or False. If not proven either way use a ? and maybe someone else can fill in. I was trying to figure out a way to indicate whether or not a statement was a deliberate lie, an attempt at damage control, or direct quoting from Casey, but that got impossible and involved mind-reading, so unless someone has a better idea I'm leaving it at T/F/?

At first I left out anything that seemed irrelevant but then I couldn't always tell what was really relevant so I started putting everything in. If it's not relevant it doesn't matter anyway.

[PuffDragon]

Darn. I tried to do a copy and paste but it didn't work. Okay, I'll print out my database and type:

1) Caylee is deceased
2) Caylee's paternity is unknown to the public
3) Casey is a pathological liar
4) Casey's car was towed from Amscot
5) Casey is charged with murder
6) Casey stole from her grandfather's ALS account
7) Casey stole Amy's checks
8) Casey shopped at Target for beer and clothing with Amy's check
9) Casey No one has ever seen or talked to ZFG
10) Casey hasn't worked at a job in over two years
11) Casey was 7 months pregnant at Rick's wedding
12) The trunk of the car smelled strongly of decomposition
13) Lee and Mallory moved out of their house and Lee moved into the Anthony home
14) George had a meltdown of some type and was admitted to a mental facility
15) NeJames removed himself from representing the Anthonys
16) Conway was retained about the time the remains were discovered
17) Casey is being sued by a Zenaida, but not Casey's nanny Zanny.

[PuffDragon]

1) Casey stole money from Caylee's bank account
2) Casey stole change from Caylee's piggy bank
3) George saw Casey and Caylee leave the house on June 16th
4) Cindy tucked Casey and Caylee into bed on the night of June 15th
5) George had a confrontation with Casey on June 24th
6) There was an argument between Casey and Cindy on the evening of June 15th
7) Cindy tried to choke Casey on the night of June 15th
8) Casey kept a spare car key in her pocket at all times
9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush
10) Casey told CIndy she wasn't pregnant because she had never had sex
11) Caylee never went anywhere without her favorite doll
12) JB took Conway to the jail where he met Casey
13) The pool ladder was left up and the gate was open
14) The Anthonys searched the back yard
15) When TonE met Casey at Amscot she had food probably taken from the Anthony house
16) ZFG received $400/wk for her services
17) Mallory is pregnant
18) Casey is pregnant
19) George attempted suicide
20) George's suicide note states he believes in Casey's innocence
21) George's suicide note states that Cindy could do 'better than him'
22) George told Cindy that if she didn't stop running off at the mouth they would need an attorney
23) Casey is a sociopath

[PuffDragon]

1) Caylee phoned Casey on July 15th
2) Zanny the nanny lived at Sawgrass apartments
3) Casey worked as an event promoter
4) Casey was attending college
5) ZFG and her family were in a car accident which Casey witnessed
6) ZFG had everything Caylee needed
7) ZFG had a rich father and babysat out of the goodness of her heart
8) Casey had a Blackberry cell phone with important numbers on it that she lost
9) Casey went to Sawgrass apts to pick up Caylee the evening she was taken
10) Casey communicated often with ZFG often by cell phone and email
11) Caylee was often with Cindy during June and July, when she wasn't with ZFG
12) Casey's gas gauge was faulty

[PuffDragon]

George: I saw Casey and Caylee on June 16 when Casey left for work. ?
George: I saw Casey June 24 when she was at the house with the car. ?
Cindy: There was a bag of pizza in the car for...what...12 days... full of maggots. It stunk so bad. F
Cindy: We are constantly getting threats. ?
Cindy: Threats? I never said we were getting threats. ?
George: The dead body in my [grand]daughter's car was not my granddaughter! F
Casey: Zanny took her. F
Cindy: She'll be the Mother of the Year when this is over! F
Cindy: It smells like there's a dead body in the damned car! T
Cindy: It was the pizza, George, wasn't it the pizza? F
Cindy: She may tell half-truths or mistruths, but she doesn't lie. F
Casey: My gut feeling.... she's still OK. F
Casey: All anyone cares about is finding Caylee! T
Casey: And you know what, that's all I care about too..... F
Casey: They are blaming me for something I didn't... would never do. F
Casey: She's close.... real close. F
George: We are watching the people that have her. F
George: Ya know, it ain't easy living with Cindy and Casey. T
Casey: Don't worry, Zanny was paid very well. F
Cindy: There was no odor in the car when it was towed to the tow yard. F
George: It was an overpowering smell. T
Cindy: Maybe somebody put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. F
Lee: The trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to...ventilate the horrible smell. T
Cindy: Casey always kept a spare key in her pocket in case she accidentally locked the car door. F

[kellabeck]

18. George wrote a long suicide note (but we don't know what it said. Conway said it did NOT implicate Casey.)
19. Caylee's body was completely skeletonized.
20. The body was found inside a laundry bag and a black trash bag.
21. There was duct tape across Caylee's mouth and a heart sticker on it.
22. The body was found with a Winnie the Pooh blanket and toy horses.

[Texas Native]

]

+++++++++++
Number 1,2, 3 and 5 George stated was true to LE. #13 Cindy stated ladder was left up to media or show (GRETA ?).

[SavannahStar]

21 - the heart sticker was not found on the duct tape. Residue from the heart sticker was found on the duct tape. A heart sticker was found near the remains. That sticker matched the residue on the duct tape.

22 - I think it was only one toy horse.

[PuffDragon]

18. George wrote a long suicide note (but we don't know what it said. Conway said it did NOT implicate Casey.)
19. Caylee's body was completely skeletonized.
20. The body was found inside a laundry bag and a black trash bag.
21. There was duct tape across Caylee's mouth and a heart sticker on it.
22. The body was found with a Winnie the Pooh blanket and toy horses.

Thank you kellabeck. i will add them. I dispute your #19 though. I think it belongs in 'Hearsay'.

[PuffDragon]

+++++++++++
Number 1,2, 3 and 5 George stated was true to LE. #13 Cindy stated ladder was left up to media or show (GRETA ?).

All hearsay. Not proven.

[PuffDragon]

21 - the heart sticker was not found on the duct tape. Residue from the heart sticker was found on the duct tape. A heart sticker was found near the remains. That sticker matched the residue on the duct tape.

22 - I think it was only one toy horse.

Ah SS, you are one after my own heart. Details, the devil is in the details. I will modify.

[legalmania]

21 - the heart sticker was not found on the duct tape. Residue from the heart sticker was found on the duct tape. A heart sticker was found near the remains. That sticker matched the residue on the duct tape.

22 - I think it was only one toy horse.

23 . Media captures a picture of a book at the scene similar to the book
Caylee was reading on the 15th of June, near the body.Fact.

[PuffDragon]

24. Media captures a picture of a book at the scene similar to the book
Caylee was reading on the 15th of June, near the body.

In which list, legal? Hearsay? Do we know if the actual book turned up in the home?

[legalmania]

In which list, legal? Hearsay? Do we know if the actual book turned up in the home?

It's fact I edited it. I 'm confused with the numbering I made it 24 I can't change it now.

[legalmania]

In which list, legal? Hearsay? Do we know if the actual book turned up in the home?

The book had yellow like the book Caylee was reading on the 15th but I'm not sure where the book came from home or she kept books in the car.

[PuffDragon]

The book had yellow like the book Caylee was reading on the 15th but I'm not sure where the book came from home or she kept books in the car.

I did see the pictures but I'm not convinced it's the same book. I don't see it listed in the doc dumps. I'm going to put it in Hearsay until there's confirmation.

[PuffDragon]

Puff how about George telling LE that he chased Casey while she was driving Cindys car but he couldnt catch her... that whole story

You can put it where you think it should go and label it as you see fit :)

Right, good one. It's not exactly a quote so not in Antspeak. Ummm... Hearsay, I guess.

[~tj~]

Does LE have little Caylee's fingerprints?? This is probably a dumb question........But they would be on the book..

[Cinsd]

George had a stroke the 13th, KC was at the hospital with her dad, so KC couldn't go with Amy to Jacksonville to pick up Amy's new car.

The A's were moving out of the house & Cindy was giving the house to KC. Amy was suppose to move in & be room mates with KC & Caylee.

Not one but 2 dead squirrels were plastered on the frame of KC's car & KC scraped them off.

[Cinsd]

George: I saw Casey and Caylee on June 16 when Casey left for work. ?
George: I saw Casey June 24 when she was at the house with the car. ?
Cindy: There was a bag of pizza in the car for...what...12 days... full of maggots. It stunk so bad. F
Cindy: We are constantly getting threats. ?
Cindy: Threats? I never said we were getting threats. ?
George: The dead body in my [grand]daughter's car was not my granddaughter! F
Casey: Zanny took her. F
Cindy: She'll be the Mother of the Year when this is over! F
Cindy: It smells like there's a dead body in the damned car! T
Cindy: It was the pizza, George, wasn't it the pizza? F
Cindy: She may tell half-truths or mistruths, but she doesn't lie. F
Casey: My gut feeling.... she's still OK. F
Casey: All anyone cares about is finding Caylee! T
Casey: And you know what, that's all I care about too..... F
Casey: They are blaming me for something I didn't... would never do. F
Casey: She's close.... real close. F
George: We are watching the people that have her. F
George: Ya know, it ain't easy living with Cindy and Casey. T
Casey: Don't worry, Zanny was paid very well. F
Cindy: There was no odor in the car when it was towed to the tow yard. F
George: It was an overpowering smell. T
Cindy: Maybe somebody put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. F
Lee: The trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to...ventilate the horrible smell. T
Cindy: Casey always kept a spare key in her pocket in case she accidentally locked the car door. F

I bolded that line

I think that's True

[apothecary]

Casey:In a backwards kind of way

[apothecary]

Lee:She conveyed to me

[PuffDragon]

Does LE have little Caylee's fingerprints?? This is probably a dumb question........But they would be on the book..

I can't imagine that they would have them directly from Caylee unless the Anthonys participated in one of those police things that fingerprinted the children. They don't have those drives around here as much as they used to. But it seems there's some difference of opinion about that book being found in the area of the body. It was just on NG that there was no report of any book being discovered in the search site.

[PuffDragon]

George had a stroke the 13th, KC was at the hospital with her dad, so KC couldn't go with Amy to Jacksonville to pick up Amy's new car.

The A's were moving out of the house & Cindy was giving the house to KC. Amy was suppose to move in & be room mates with KC & Caylee.

Not one but 2 dead squirrels were plastered on the frame of KC's car & KC scraped them off.

Those are great!!! How could I have forgotten, especially about the dead squirrels!!!!

[PuffDragon]

I bolded that line

I think that's True

You're right, I copied it wrong and when I realized it, it was too late to go back and edit. Very sharp eyes.

[PuffDragon]

Casey:In a backwards kind of way

Yes, great! And yes to conveyed, and also reached out. I'm adding them all to Antspeak.

[Cinsd]

Thank you kellabeck. i will add them. I dispute your #19 though. I think it belongs in 'Hearsay'.

The ME said it was completely skeletonized. Why would that be hearsay? Wouldn't that be a fact?:confused:

[enigma]

Great idea, PuffDragon!

In the list of Hearsay... there's one I can see referring to the hairbrush which I believe is Fact. Cindy said so herself in one of her emails.

9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush

In addition, under the Facts list, there's the following:

Casey didn't report Caylee as an abducted child or as "missing" for a whole month; in fact, she didn't report it at al, Cindy did.

Casey frequented Fusian where she danced and partied during the month when her child was supposedly abducted or went missing.

Casey got a tatoo that says "Bella Vita" (beautiful life) during the month when Caylee was "missing".

Casey was planning to get another tatoo on the day when Cindy caught up with her (I believe, someone please correct me if I have the wrong day).

JMHO

[enigma]

Think Nancy had the tattoo guy on a while ago...
I'll youtube it...maybe it's there the interview...

I saw the interview with GVS just recently... I think it's the same one she's shown before? Anyway, the two guys from the tatoo parlour were both there and one of them said (Ithought) that Casey dropped in and said she wanted another tatoo... I'll see if I can find it in GVS's transcripts, but I don't like my chances. I find it difficult to find anything on that site.

JMHO

[enigma]

OK - here's what I found instead re. Casey making an appointment to get another tatoo... It was the day Cindy found her that she made the appointment to have another tat done... Her daughter's "missing" and she's busy thinking up ditties for tatoos. You can tell how worried she was. NOT. The jury will also be able to tell :thumbsup:

"The day before she was arrested, Casey Anthony showed up back in the shop and when another artist asked about Caylee, she said her child was with the nanny. She made another appointment for July 19, and said she would bring her daughter in."

http://www.wesh.com/news/17303070/detail.html

JMHO

[SavannahStar]

Great idea, PuffDragon!

In the list of Hearsay... there's one I can see referring to the hairbrush which I believe is Fact. Cindy said so herself in one of her emails.

9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush

*snipped*



I would leave that in heresay. Was reading up about that this morning, and there is a lot of controversy over that alleged email (to Larry Garrison).

Interesting to me also is the fact that most of what is in the heresay column is stuff that Cindy and/or George said, and much of that is simply BECAUSE they said it.....not taken as fact. Now here is something that allegedly "Cindy said herself" so it's taken as fact?

:confused:

I'd say leave it in heresay. IMO.

[Dunlurken]

It would appear as though we have a lot of hear say so far. Wonderful thread! JMO. :thumbsup:

[PuffDragon]

The ME said it was completely skeletonized. Why would that be hearsay? Wouldn't that be a fact?:confused:

I'm an idiot, I must have seen it wrong or something:blushing:. I meant #18.

[PuffDragon]

Great idea, PuffDragon!

In the list of Hearsay... there's one I can see referring to the hairbrush which I believe is Fact. Cindy said so herself in one of her emails.

9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush

In addition, under the Facts list, there's the following:

Casey didn't report Caylee as an abducted child or as "missing" for a whole month; in fact, she didn't report it at al, Cindy did.

Casey frequented Fusian where she danced and partied during the month when her child was supposedly abducted or went missing.

Casey got a tatoo that says "Bella Vita" (beautiful life) during the month when Caylee was "missing".

Casey was planning to get another tatoo on the day when Cindy caught up with her (I believe, someone please correct me if I have the wrong day).

JMHO

Cindy said it but there's no corroborating evidence so it's not a fact.

The others are good for Facts. If Casey had made an appointment for that other tattoo it's a fact too. Do you know if she did?

[PuffDragon]

OK - here's what I found instead re. Casey making an appointment to get another tatoo... It was the day Cindy found her that she made the appointment to have another tat done... Her daughter's "missing" and she's busy thinking up ditties for tatoos. You can tell how worried she was. NOT. The jury will also be able to tell :thumbsup:

"The day before she was arrested, Casey Anthony showed up back in the shop and when another artist asked about Caylee, she said her child was with the nanny. She made another appointment for July 19, and said she would bring her daughter in."

http://www.wesh.com/news/17303070/detail.html

JMHO

Okay, Fact, then. Thanks for the research.

[PuffDragon]

Your good......
Tattoo's aren't cheap right?
What do they normally cost?
And who was casey going to steel money from that time:ohmy::glare:

She never seemed to have a problem finding it. Wish I had some of her street smarts... not too much, just a way to keep some cash in my pocket...... only cash honestly come by, of course.

I'm snatching time here, babysitting today.

[PuffDragon]

I would leave that in heresay. Was reading up about that this morning, and there is a lot of controversy over that alleged email (to Larry Garrison).

Interesting to me also is the fact that most of what is in the heresay column is stuff that Cindy and/or George said, and much of that is simply BECAUSE they said it.....not taken as fact. Now here is something that allegedly "Cindy said herself" so it's taken as fact?

:confused:

I'd say leave it in heresay. IMO.

Very true, SS. It has been left there. Everything's hearsay unless corroborated by other reputable sources. Especially anything out of any Anthony mouth.

[PuffDragon]

It would appear as though we have a lot of hear say so far. Wonderful thread! JMO. :thumbsup:

Thank you Dunnie, I hope it helps keep us on track. Yes, a lot of what we have long taken for granted is in fact unproven. When you look at the difference between what we really do know and what we have been taking on faith you can easily see where some of the theories have gone far afield.

[PuffDragon]

Decomposed hair in the trunk? fact

Absolut... yes. Thanks.

[Eli]

23 . Media captures a picture of a book at the scene similar to the book
Caylee was reading on the 15th of June, near the body.Fact.

hi
Are you sure that is a fact???..someone way way back on this message board...blew up the picture of the book and also the picture on the video of Caylee and they were different..or am i remembering this incorrectly??

[PuffDragon]

hi
Are you sure that is a fact???..someone way way back on this message board...blew up the picture of the book and also the picture on the video of Caylee and they were different..or am i remembering this incorrectly??

No, you are right. I have placed it in Hearsay. It was also on NG last night: no report of a book found near the body. I'm not sure if no evidence of evidence is enough to put it in the False list.

[SavannahStar]

No, you are right. I have placed it in Hearsay. It was also on NG last night: no report of a book found near the body. I'm not sure if no evidence of evidence is enough to put it in the False list.


I vote for heresay.

[kellabeck]

Cadaver dogs hit on the trunk and in the Ant backyard.

Caylee's hair was found in the trunk and it was "banded" which occurs postmortem.

Evidence of a decomposed body was present in the trunk.

Evidence of chloroform was present in the trunk.

FACTS.

[PuffDragon]

I vote for heresay.

You win! Hearsay just keeps getting longer and longer.

[PuffDragon]

Cadaver dogs hit on the trunk and in the Ant backyard.

Caylee's hair was found in the trunk and it was "banded" which occurs postmortem.

Evidence of a decomposed body was present in the trunk.

Evidence of chloroform was present in the trunk.

FACTS.

Didn't have the Cadaver dogs entry, thank you.

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE FIRST AMENDED LIST OF "FACTS"

1) Caylee is deceased
2) Caylee's paternity is unknown to the public
3) Casey is a pathological liar
4) Casey's car was towed from Amscot
5) Casey is charged with murder
6) Casey stole from her grandfather's ALS account
7) Casey stole Amy's checks
8) Casey shopped at Target for beer and clothing with Amy's check
9) Casey No one has ever seen or talked to ZFG
10) Casey hasn't worked at a job in over two years
11) Casey was 7 months pregnant at Rick's wedding
12) The trunk of the car smelled strongly of decomposition
13) Lee and Mallory moved out of their house and Lee moved into the Anthony home
14) George had a meltdown of some type and was admitted to a mental facility
15) NeJames removed himself from representing the Anthony) Cs
16) Conway was retained about the time the remains were discovered
17) Casey is being sued by a Zenaida, but not Casey's nanny Zanny.
18) Caylee's body was completely skeletonized
19) The body was found inside a laundry bag inside a black plastic trash bag
20) There was duct tape around the mouth area
21) There was a heart shaped residue on the duct tape that matched a heart sticker found nearby
22) With the body was a Winnie the Pooh blanket and a toy horse
23) Report of Caylee being missing was initiated by CIndy, not Casey, on July 15th
24) Jailers found and confiscated a rubber 'Caylee' bracelet secreted in the clothing taken to the jail for Casey to wear at her hearing
25) Casey took LE on a wild goose chase looking for ZFG before her first arrest
26) Casey took LE on a wild goose tour through the offices at Universal before admitting she didn't work there.
27) Casey admitted she had been lying to LE during her interview in the office at Universal.
28) The 'real' ZFG filled out an information form when she looked at an apartment at Sawgrass
29) The 'real; ZFG drives a car with New York License plates
30) Casey insisted that 'her' nanny was from New York
31) Judge Strickland stated that Ms. Anthony and the truth are strangers
32) Casey frequented the nightclub 'Fusian' after Caylee went missing
33) Casey played house with TonE after Casey went missing
34) Casey got a tattoo: Bella Vita right after Caylee missing
35) Casey had an appointment for a new tattoo for July 19 but was ambushed by Cindy looking for Caylee
36) Meter reader Kronk reassigned to an inside job
37) Todd Black revealed to be Gil Cabot, a convicted felon
38) 'Todd Black' made a public statement referring to Casey being deceased and was fired by Baez.
39) Cadaver dogs hit on the Anthony yard and Casey's trunk.


Any spectacular typos are a result of help from a fascinated 1-year old who woke up from her nap too soon. Apologies in advance. I'll do the other lists later.

[IM4Truth]

It would be good if just Puff's updated posts could remain and all other posts deleted, but I guess that would be too much for CW to do. I like to see everything separated like this. Wouldn't statements made to LE &/or FBI be considered as fact instead of hearsay? They swore to the truth, right? Just my two cents.

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE AMENDED LIST FOR HEARSAY:

1) Casey stole money from Caylee's bank account
2) Casey stole change from Caylee's piggy bank
3) George saw Casey and Caylee leave the house on June 16th
4) Cindy tucked Casey and Caylee into bed on the night of June 15th
5) George had a confrontation with Casey on June 24th
6) There was an argument between Casey and Cindy on the evening of June 15th
7) Cindy tried to choke Casey on the night of June 15th
8) Casey kept a spare car key in her pocket at all times
9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush
10) Casey told CIndy she wasn't pregnant because she had never had sex
11) Caylee never went anywhere without her favorite doll
12) JB took Conway to the jail where he met Casey
13) The pool ladder was left up and the gate was open
14) The Anthonys searched the back yard
15) When TonE met Casey at Amscot she had food probably taken from the Anthony house
16) ZFG received $400/wk for her services
17) Mallory is pregnant
18) Casey is pregnant
19) George attempted suicide
20) George's suicide note states he believes in Casey's innocence
21) George's suicide note states that Cindy could do 'better than him'
22) George told Cindy that if she didn't stop running off at the mouth they would need an attorney
23) Casey is a sociopath
24) George wrote an 8 page suicide note
25) A book, possibly similar to the one seen in the Father's Day video, was found near the body.
26) Cindy tucked Casey and Caylee into bed on the night of June 15th
27) The Anthonys searched the back yard after getting wind of the smell in the car.
28) George chased Casey when he saw her driving Cindy's car; Cindy said Casey never had her car.
29) Cindy "heard them sleeping" before she went to work on the morning of the 16th.
30) Cindy put a rubber "Caylee" bracelet into the clothing she sent to the jail for Casey to wear to the hearing.
31) Jose put a rubber "Caylee" bracelet into the clothing he took to the jail for Casey to wear to the hearing.
32) Casey met ZFG and her family at the park where they took Caylee from her and gave her a script to follow for the next month.
33) There was a call to Casey's cell phone from the Anthony home phone at 7:45 A.M. on the morning of June 16th.
34) Kronk the meter reader asked to be reassigned before he found Caylee's remains.
35) Todd Black's firm hired by J. Baez as PR for Casey.
36) Press Corps Media, PR firm of Todd Black, insists it is not being paid by Casey or Baez but by a family in Connecticut.
37) J. Baez insists Todd Black does not and never has worked for him.
38) Caylee was often pulled by George through the neighborhood in her little red wagon.


Any mistakes in this one are my own. The baby has gone home.

[PuffDragon]

It would be good if just Puff's updated posts could remain and all other posts deleted, but I guess that would be too much for CW to do. I like to see everything separated like this. Wouldn't statements made to LE &/or FBI be considered as fact instead of hearsay? They swore to the truth, right? Just my two cents.

I know, I'd like to see them deleted too, but yes, I wouldn't dare ask CW to deal with that.

I don't care who swore to what. Even if people think they are telling the truth as they see it it isn't necessarily fact unless there is independent corroborating evidence. I figure I'll start the statements in "Hearsay" and if anybody can supply the links that proves them as facts I'll promote them.

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE AMENDED LIST FOR LIES:

1) Caylee phoned Casey on July 15th
2) Zanny the nanny lived at Sawgrass apartments
3) Casey worked as an event promoter
4) Casey was attending college
5) ZFG and her family were in a car accident which Casey witnessed
6) ZFG had everything Caylee needed
7) ZFG had a rich father and babysat out of the goodness of her heart
8) Casey had a Blackberry cell phone with important numbers on it that she lost
9) Casey went to Sawgrass apts to pick up Caylee the evening she was taken
10) Casey communicated often with ZFG often by cell phone and email
11) Caylee was often with Cindy during June and July, when she wasn't with ZFG
12) Casey's gas gauge was faulty
13) George had a stroke on the 13th so Casey couldn't accompany Amy to get her car
14) Cindy and George were planning to give Casey the house so she and Amy could live there and share expenses.
15) There was a terrible smell in Casey's car from the two dead squirrels that crawled up into the motor.


Seems like there should be more confirmed lies out there. What am I missing?

[PuffDragon]

HERE'S THE AMENDED LIST FOR ANTSPEAK:

George: I saw Casey and Caylee on June 16 when Casey left for work. ?
George: I saw Casey June 24 when she was at the house with the car. ?
Cindy: There was a bag of pizza in the car for...what...12 days... full of maggots. It stunk so bad. F
Cindy: We are constantly getting threats. ?
Cindy: Threats? I never said we were getting threats. ?
George: The dead body in my [grand]daughter's car was not my granddaughter! F
Casey: Zanny took her. F
Cindy: She'll be the Mother of the Year when this is over! F
Cindy: It smells like there's a dead body in the damned car! T
Cindy: It was the pizza, George, wasn't it the pizza? F
Cindy: She may tell half-truths or mistruths, but she doesn't lie. F
Casey: My gut feeling.... she's still OK. F
Casey: All anyone cares about is finding Caylee! T
Casey: And you know what, that's all I care about too..... F
Casey: They are blaming me for something I didn't... would never do. F
Casey: She's close.... real close. T
George: We are watching the people that have her. F
George: Ya know, it ain't easy living with Cindy and Casey. T
Casey: Don't worry, Zanny was paid very well. F
Cindy: There was no odor in the car when it was towed to the tow yard. F
George: It was an overpowering smell. T
Cindy: Maybe somebody put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. F
Lee: The trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to...ventilate the horrible smell. T
Cindy: Casey always kept a spare key in her pocket in case she accidentally locked the car door. F
Casey: In a backwards kind of way F
Lee: She conveyed to me T
Lee: I reached out to him T


I know there have to be lots more Antspeak, I must have a mental block on this category.

[enigma]

I would leave that in heresay. Was reading up about that this morning, and there is a lot of controversy over that alleged email (to Larry Garrison).

Interesting to me also is the fact that most of what is in the heresay column is stuff that Cindy and/or George said, and much of that is simply BECAUSE they said it.....not taken as fact. Now here is something that allegedly "Cindy said herself" so it's taken as fact?

:confused:

I'd say leave it in heresay. IMO.

That's cool by me, but the reasons I suggested it is Fact rather than Hearsay include:

1. Cindy didn't just say it, she put it in writing, in an email from her to Larry which now it's part of the supporting documentation in the Prosecution's case against Casey.

2. In the email Cindy says she didn't lie, it wasn't deception, she just didn't go to the bathroom to get Caylee's brush. Furthermore, she says "they" (meaning LE) knew, that she had told them she gave them the brush used by Casey and Caylee. In other words, she's saying 'I didn't lie, I just didn't go to the bathroom to get the one used exclusively by Caylee and they know about that'.

3. Whereas I can see why Cindy might dissimulate or outright lie in other instances where she may have thought it would help Casey, I don't see at all how Cindy could have thought that lying about not giving LE Caylee's exclusive hairbrush could benefit her or casey in any way.

But let it be hearsay... :shrug:

JMHO

[enigma]

Okay, Fact, then. Thanks for the research.

No problem - thanks for yours. :)

[spydernweb2006]

I wanted to add to FACTS:

Dominic Casey was videotaped using a cellphone talking to someone while in the area of Caylee's Remains. He was poking the ground with a stick. He didnt find the remains but this was done PRIOR to Kronk finding Caylee's Remains and LE recovering them.


Heresay:

DC was talking to a Psychic while seaching the Remains area before LE recovered them.

DC was talking to Lee Anthony while poking around for Caylee's remains before LE recovered them.


PLEASE CORRECT IF I AM WRONG!

JMHO

HUGS,

Spyder

[PuffDragon]

That's cool by me, but the reasons I suggested it is Fact rather than Hearsay include:

1. Cindy didn't just say it, she put it in writing, in an email from her to Larry which now it's part of the supporting documentation in the Prosecution's case against Casey.

2. In the email Cindy says she didn't lie, it wasn't deception, she just didn't go to the bathroom to get Caylee's brush. Furthermore, she says "they" (meaning LE) knew, that she had told them she gave them the brush used by Casey and Caylee. In other words, she's saying 'I didn't lie, I just didn't go to the bathroom to get the one used exclusively by Caylee and they know about that'.

3. Whereas I can see why Cindy might dissimulate or outright lie in other instances where she may have thought it would help Casey, I don't see at all how Cindy could have thought that lying about not giving LE Caylee's exclusive hairbrush could benefit her or casey in any way.

But let it be hearsay... :shrug:

JMHO

*Bolding mine

Aw come on, enigma, Cindy screwing up LE's thinking would be enough reason. Just part of the smoke and mirrors, and another check mark in Cindy's 'win' column for appearing to put something over. Whether she did it or she didn't do it, just thinking she confused the issue would be enough for her. MO of course, but it fits her pattern.

Really, I didn't put it there arbitrarily. I'd be happy to promote or demote any item if somebody can show me evidence, but having Cindy support her own statements, whether in interviews or emails or any other way, doesn't exactly convince me of the veracity of this one. What might make me lean toward believing she did what she said she did would be a lab report saying that Casey's hair as well as Caylee's was found in the brush, plus another lab report on the brush that is purported to be exclusively Caylee's, showing no other hair but hers. That would be evidence, not just words.

[PuffDragon]

I wanted to add to FACTS:

Dominic Casey was videotaped using a cellphone talking to someone while in the area of Caylee's Remains. He was poking the ground with a stick. He didnt find the remains but this was done PRIOR to Kronk finding Caylee's Remains and LE recovering them.


Heresay:

DC was talking to a Psychic while seaching the Remains area before LE recovered them.

DC was talking to Lee Anthony while poking around for Caylee's remains before LE recovered them.


PLEASE CORRECT IF I AM WRONG!

JMHO

HUGS,

Spyder

Nope, sounds good to me Spyder. Consider them added, with thanks.

[PuffDragon]

I just have to say thank you again for this thread PD

I just spent the last 45 minutes going over it again (I took a look the other night but didnt have the time to really sit and connect the dots)

This makes it so much easier to keep the facts straight in my mind instead of fuzzed in with certain things that i didnt know the source for and wasnt sure if it was a known fact or just something we strongly suspect to be true.

good work! :thumbsup:

My mind works better when I can see everything listed logically. I knew I couldn't be the only one. If it helps others too then it's worth all the typing (said as I massage my poor swollen fingers.... :rolleyes:).
I've been wishing for a good list for a while. I know there has to be a lot more to add but at least it's started.

[PuffDragon]

ooops I meant to include this... because it's my favorite and i always *giggle* when i read it

It's under the ANTSPEAK COLUMN

Cindy: We are constantly getting threats. ?
Cindy: Threats? I never said we were getting threats. ?

:lol:

Yeah, me too. It isn't like " we are constantly getting threats" was a minor thing to say, then she so quickly forgot she'd said it?

[PuffDragon]

If this works it will save me a lot of typing.....yessssss!!!

ADDING ITEMS TO THE FACTS LIST:

41) There were internet searches for chloroform on the home computer
42) There was a search made for the name of ZFG on July 17th after Casey was arrested
43) D. Casey, videotaped searching in the general area, talking on cell phone while poking in the ground with a stick.
44) George texted close friends before he closeted himself in the motel during his meltdown
45) George filed a police report on June 24 that his shed broken into and 2 cans of gas were stolen
46) Amy stated that Casey took Caylee with her to adult parties.
47) Lenny Padilla, bail bondsman, arranged Casey's bail for her first arrest.
48) Casey spent her time out on bail either in her bedroom or at her lawyer's office.
49) Jesse took a DNA test to see if he were Casey's babydaddy. It came back negative.
50) Neither of the people who Casey supposedly told that Caylee was missing works at Universal.
51) LE was told by several of her friends that Casey never appeared upset that Caylee was missing.
52) The date of Caylee's disappearance was originally stated as June 9th.
53) The video of Caylee at the grandfather's ALC was made on Father's Day, June 15th.

[PuffDragon]

ADDITIONS TO LIST #2: HEARSAY


39) Zanny the nanny is Xanax
40) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from a psychic
41) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from Lee Anthony
42) LP wanted to bail Casey out of jail in order to try to get the truth out of her.
43) Casey told her mother in early June she was being sent to Tampa for work and would be back in a few days
44) ZFG had been a family friend for four years and cared for Caylee for 18 months.

[PuffDragon]

ADDITIONS TO LIST #3: LIES

16) ZFG lived in what turned out to be a senior facility.
17) ZFG's mother lived in a house at The Crossings at Conway.
18) Casey was so concerned that she told two co-workers at Universal Studios her child had disappeared.

[Cinsd]

ADDITIONS TO LIST #2: HEARSAY


39) Zanny the nanny is Xanax
40) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from a psychic
41) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from Lee Anthony
42) LP wanted to bail Casey out of jail in order to try to get the truth out of her.
43) Casey told her mother in early June she was being sent to Tampa for work and would be back in a few days
44) ZFG had been a family friend for four years and cared for Caylee for 18 months.

I bolded line 43
Isn't this a lie since LE said KC never left Orlando? Just checkin:smile:

[SavannahStar]

I bolded line 43
Isn't this a lie since LE said KC never left Orlando? Just checkin:smile:

It wouldn't be a lie if that is what Casey told Cindy. That's what we're talking about.

[PuffDragon]

It wouldn't be a lie if that is what Casey told Cindy. That's what we're talking about.

Yes, that's where my mind was SS, but it makes me think that maybe I need a similar entry in "Lies" to point out that it was disproven.

[PuffDragon]

I bolded line 43
Isn't this a lie since LE said KC never left Orlando? Just checkin:smile:

I see what you mean Cinsd. The item itself is hearsay, buy I have added this line:

Casey left the house in early June to go to Tampa for work for a few days.

to the "Lies" list to amplify.

[della_17_99]

Darn. I tried to do a copy and paste but it didn't work. Okay, I'll print out my database and type:

1) Caylee is deceased
2) Caylee's paternity is unknown to the public
3) Casey is a pathological liar
4) Casey's car was towed from Amscot
5) Casey is charged with murder
6) Casey stole from her grandfather's ALS account
7) Casey stole Amy's checks
8) Casey shopped at Target for beer and clothing with Amy's check
9) Casey No one has ever seen or talked to ZFG
10) Casey hasn't worked at a job in over two years
11) Casey was 7 months pregnant at Rick's wedding
12) The trunk of the car smelled strongly of decomposition
13) Lee and Mallory moved out of their house and Lee moved into the Anthony home
14) George had a meltdown of some type and was admitted to a mental facility
15) NeJames removed himself from representing the Anthonys
16) Conway was retained about the time the remains were discovered
17) Casey is being sued by a Zenaida, but not Casey's nanny Zanny.

Hiya Puff. I just started going through this thread, and if this has already been mentioned... well then my bad.

Fact: (18?)Traces of Chloroform were found in the trunk of that car... enough to be measured anyways.

[della_17_99]

ADDITIONS TO LIST #2: HEARSAY


39) Zanny the nanny is Xanax

*snip* *bolding mine*

BINGO!!:thumbsup: I have always thought that she meant Xanax when she mentioned Zanny.

[PuffDragon]

*snip* *bolding mine*

BINGO!!:thumbsup: I have always thought that she meant Xanax when she mentioned Zanny.

Don't get too euphoric...... it's in the "Hearsay" column. Mentioned but not proven.

[PuffDragon]

Hiya Puff. I just started going through this thread, and if this has already been mentioned... well then my bad.

Fact: (18?)Traces of Chloroform were found in the trunk of that car... enough to be measured anyways.

You are right, I could have sworn I had that in there but all there was about chloroform was the reference to the computer search. I'm adding it now.

[della_17_99]

Don't get too euphoric...... it's in the "Hearsay" column. Mentioned but not proven.


Awww! And I was doing my happy dance already! :thumbup:
However I concur... it belongs in the hearsay column. I'm just happy I'm not the only one who is of the opinion that CA used Xanax, quite possibly on Caylee. And is it not true, but did I read somewhere that CA had a seizure earlier this year? Seizure are quite common for a person who has been taking it regularly and then stops abruptly. Anyways... I want to see the toxicology reports for that baby's hair. Maybe Xanax will show up there.

*All of this is JMO*

[SavannahStar]

Don't get too euphoric...... it's in the "Hearsay" column. Mentioned but not proven.

Absolutely NOT proven is right. In fact I haven't even seen it mentioned other than on message boards. At all. So heresay is perfect. Idle speculation even better. :biggrin:

[PuffDragon]

Absolutely NOT proven is right. In fact I haven't even seen it mentioned other than on message boards. At all. So heresay is perfect. Idle speculation even better. :biggrin:

I like that, maybe there should be a column for "Idle speculation".

I honestly haven't seen any evidence that Casey was into any major drugs. Don't know how she could have afforded them anyhow, and her bunch of friends probably couldn't have either, working, going to school, just enough pocket money for beer and a little weed..... really not such a bad bunch of young people, sowing their wild oats, getting it out of their systems, ten more years and they'll all be indistinguishable from any other 30-something making a living for their families. All but Casey, of course.

[Grins]

Excellent work PuffDragon and kudos for an original thread!
This is from CA to Rick in an email:
"...As for my neighbor he has told so many different dates and versions of the shovel we cannot keep them straight.
Once he said he was outside working in the yard. Then he said Casey came to the door and he never went outside, so he did not see her car. He still cannot remember what day of the week or what week in June it was.

One time his wife said she was the one who gave Casey the shovel. No one
hears about that in the news..."
~~~~~~
Was this ever confirmed in police reports? I cannot recall.

[PuffDragon]

Excellent work PuffDragon and kudos for an original thread!
This is from CA to Rick in an email:
"...As for my neighbor he has told so many different dates and versions of the shovel we cannot keep them straight.
Once he said he was outside working in the yard. Then he said Casey came to the door and he never went outside, so he did not see her car. He still cannot remember what day of the week or what week in June it was.

One time his wife said she was the one who gave Casey the shovel. No one
hears about that in the news..."
~~~~~~
Was this ever confirmed in police reports? I cannot recall.

*Bolding mine

Rick's neighbor?
I don't remember that email. I remember the reports and that he was never sure exactly what day it was. I don't see anything strange about that, she only borrowed a shovel, not something like his lawnmower or his car, and LE didn't ask him about it until over a month later, and she did return it right away. I never heard that it was his wife that might have given Casey the shovel. Where did you get that email from?
I do have to enter some of the known shovel information though. Thanks.

[Grins]

Neighbor of A's who lent the shovel, Brian Burner.
His statement to LE of July 17 '08
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/police-summary-of-statement-given-to-police-by-brian-burner-regarding-shovel/

His statement to LE of July 30 '08
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12%20Brian%20Brown%20July%2030,%202008.pdf

[PuffDragon]

Neighbor of A's who lent the shovel, Brian Burner.
His statement to LE of July 17 '08
http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/police-summary-of-statement-given-to-police-by-brian-burner-regarding-shovel/

His statement to LE of July 30 '08
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/12%20Brian%20Brown%20July%2030,%202008.pdf

Thanks for looking it up. Sounds like after the first statement he thought about it and firmed up the date. Must have checked his calendar or something. According to his statements Casey actually told him that she wanted the shovel to dig up the bamboo roots. I thought Cindy made it up. But nothing about the wife in either of those statements.
I'll put the shovel incident into Facts. I guess "digging up the bamboo roots" belongs in Hearsay.

[Cinsd]

Thanks to desmom, snipped & quoted

I do think Cindy's lie about a lawyer drawing up papers to prevent the father from coming into Caylee's life later caused some red flags.

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE SECOND AMENDED LIST OF "FACTS"

1) Caylee is deceased
2) Caylee's paternity is unknown to the public
3) Casey is a pathological liar
4) Casey's car was towed from Amscot
5) Casey is charged with murder
6) Casey stole from her grandfather's ALS account
7) Casey stole Amy's checks
8) Casey shopped at Target for beer and clothing with Amy's check
9) Casey No one has ever seen or talked to ZFG
10) Casey hasn't worked at a job in over two years
11) Casey was 7 months pregnant at Rick's wedding
12) The trunk of the car smelled strongly of decomposition
13) Lee and Mallory moved out of their house and Lee moved into the Anthony home
14) George had a meltdown of some type and was admitted to a mental facility
15) NeJames removed himself from representing the Anthony) Cs
16) Conway was retained about the time the remains were discovered
17) Casey is being sued by a Zenaida, but not Casey's nanny Zanny.
18) Caylee's body was completely skeletonized
19) The body was found inside a laundry bag inside a black plastic trash bag
20) There was duct tape around the mouth area
21) There was a heart shaped residue on the duct tape that matched a heart sticker found nearby
22) With the body was a Winnie the Pooh blanket and a toy horse
23) Report of Caylee being missing was initiated by CIndy, not Casey, on July 15th
24) Jailers found and confiscated a rubber 'Caylee' bracelet secreted in the clothing taken to the jail for Casey to wear at her hearing
25) Casey took LE on a wild goose chase looking for ZFG before her first arrest
26) Casey took LE on a wild goose tour through the offices at Universal before admitting she didn't work there.
27) Casey admitted she had been lying to LE during her interview in the office at Universal.
28) The 'real' ZFG filled out an information form when she looked at an apartment at Sawgrass
29) The 'real; ZFG drives a car with New York License plates
30) Casey insisted that 'her' nanny was from New York
31) Judge Strickland stated that Ms. Anthony and the truth are strangers
32) Casey frequented the nightclub 'Fusian' after Caylee went missing
33) Casey played house with TonE after Casey went missing
34) Casey got a tattoo: Bella Vita right after Caylee missing
35) Casey had an appointment for a new tattoo for July 19 but was ambushed by Cindy looking for Caylee
36) Meter reader Kronk reassigned to an inside job
37) Todd Black revealed to be Gil Cabot, a convicted felon
38) 'Todd Black' made a public statement referring to Casey being deceased and was fired by Baez.
39) Cadaver dogs hit on the Anthony yard and Casey's trunk.
40) There were internet searches for chloroform on the home computer
41) There was a search made for the name of ZFG on July 17th after Casey was arrested
42) D. Casey, videotaped searching in the general area, talking on cell phone while poking in the ground with a stick.
43) George texted close friends before he closeted himself in the motel during his meltdown
44) George filed a police report on June 24 that his shed broken into and 2 cans of gas were stolen
45) Amy stated that Casey took Caylee with her to adult parties.
46) Lenny Padilla, bail bondsman, arranged Casey's bail for her first arrest.
47) Casey spent her time out on bail either in her bedroom or at her lawyer's office.
48) Jesse took a DNA test to see if he were Casey's babydaddy. It came back negative.
49) Neither of the people who Casey supposedly told that Caylee was missing works at Universal.
50) LE was told by several of her friends that Casey never appeared upset that Caylee was missing.
51) The date of Caylee's disappearance was originally stated as June 9th.
52) The video of Caylee at the grandfather's ALC was made on Father's Day, June 15th.
53) Cindy tried to throw the blame for Caylee's disappearance on Amy and Jesse
54) Cindy washed clothes that were in the smelly car.

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE SECOND AMENDED LIST FOR HEARSAY:

1) Casey stole money from Caylee's bank account
2) Casey stole change from Caylee's piggy bank
3) George saw Casey and Caylee leave the house on June 16th
4) Cindy tucked Casey and Caylee into bed on the night of June 15th
5) George had a confrontation with Casey on June 24th
6) There was an argument between Casey and Cindy on the evening of June 15th
7) Cindy tried to choke Casey on the night of June 15th
8) Casey kept a spare car key in her pocket at all times
9) Cindy gave LE the wrong hairbrush
10) Casey told Cindy she wasn't pregnant because she had never had sex
11) Caylee never went anywhere without her favorite doll
12) JB took Conway to the jail where he met Casey
13) The pool ladder was left up and the gate was open
14) The Anthonys searched the back yard
15) When TonE met Casey at Amscot she had food possibly taken from the Anthony house
16) ZFG received $400/wk for her services
17) Mallory is pregnant
18) Casey is pregnant
19) George attempted suicide
20) George's suicide note states he believes in Casey's innocence
21) George's suicide note states that Cindy could do 'better than him'
22) George told Cindy that if she didn't stop running off at the mouth they would need an attorney
23) Casey is a sociopath
24) George wrote an 8 page suicide note
25) A book, possibly similar to the one seen in the Father's Day video, was found near the body.
26) Cindy tucked Casey and Caylee into bed on the night of June 15th
27) The Anthonys searched the back yard after getting wind of the smell in the car.
28) George chased Casey when he saw her driving Cindy's car; Cindy said Casey never had her car.
29) Cindy "heard them sleeping" before she went to work on the morning of the 16th.
30) Cindy put a rubber "Caylee" bracelet into the clothing she sent to the jail for Casey to wear to the hearing.
31) Jose put a rubber "Caylee" bracelet into the clothing he took to the jail for Casey to wear to the hearing.
32) Casey met ZFG and her family at the park where they took Caylee from her and gave her a script to follow for the next month.
33) There was a call to Casey's cell phone from the Anthony home phone at 7:45 A.M. on the morning of June 16th.
34) Kronk the meter reader asked to be reassigned before he found Caylee's remains.
35) Todd Black's firm hired by J. Baez as PR for Casey.
36) Press Corps Media, PR firm of Todd Black, insists it is not being paid by Casey or Baez but by a family in Connecticut.
37) J. Baez insists Todd Black does not and never has worked for him.
38) Caylee was often pulled by George through the neighborhood in her little red wagon.
39) Zanny the nanny is Xanax
40) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from a psychic
41) D. Casey searching for Caylee got information by cell phone from Lee Anthony
42) LP wanted to bail Casey out of jail in order to try to get the truth out of her.
43) Casey told her mother in early June she was being sent to Tampa for work and would be back in a few days
44) ZFG had been a family friend for four years and cared for Caylee for 18 months.
45) The car and trunk were cleaned before LE got to it.
46) Casey was the Zenaida Gonzales who got the traffic ticket
47) Casey slept in Cindy's room per JB so as not to accidentally spill something to Lenny's operative
48) Casey wanted the shovel to dig up bamboo roots in the back yard.
49) Casey never had any prenatal care
50) Per TonE, Casey woke up sweating and shaking from 'nightmares'

[PuffDragon]

HERE IS THE SECOND AMENDED LIST OF LIES

1) Caylee phoned Casey on July 15th
2) Zanny the nanny lived at Sawgrass apartments
3) Casey worked as an event promoter
4) Casey was attending college
5) ZFG and her family were in a car accident which Casey witnessed
6) ZFG had everything Caylee needed
7) ZFG had a rich father and babysat out of the goodness of her heart
8) Casey had a Blackberry cell phone with important numbers on it that she lost
9) Casey went to Sawgrass apts to pick up Caylee the evening she was taken
10) Casey communicated often with ZFG often by cell phone and email
11) Caylee was often with Cindy during June and July, when she wasn't with ZFG
12) Casey's gas gauge was faulty
13) George had a stroke on the 13th so Casey couldn't accompany Amy to get her car
14) Cindy and George were planning to give Casey the house so she and Amy could live there and share expenses.
15) There was a terrible smell in Casey's car from the two dead squirrels that crawled up into the motor.
16) Casey said, pointing to a window in what turned out to be a senior facility, that ZFG lived there.
17) Casey claimed ZFG's mother lived in a house at The Crossings at Conway
18) Casey was so concerned that she told two co-workers at Universal Studios her child had disappeared
19) Casey left the house in early June to go to Tampa for work for a few days.
20) Cindy gave information to her lawyer about Caylee's daddy to cut him out of the picture.

[PuffDragon]

HERE'S THE SECOND AMENDED LIST FOR ANTSPEAK

George: I saw Casey and Caylee on June 16 when Casey left for work. (?)
George: I saw Casey June 24 when she was at the house with the car. (?)
Cindy: There was a bag of pizza in the car for...what...12 days... full of maggots. It stunk so bad. (F)
Cindy: We are constantly getting threats. (?)
Cindy: Threats? I never said we were getting threats. (?)
George: The dead body in my [grand]daughter's car was not my granddaughter! (F)
Casey: Zanny took her. (F)
Cindy: She'll be the Mother of the Year when this is over! (F)
Cindy: It smells like there's a dead body in the damned car! (T)
Cindy: It was the pizza, George, wasn't it the pizza? (F)
Cindy: She may tell half-truths or mistruths, but she doesn't lie. (F)
Casey: My gut feeling.... she's still OK. (F)
Casey: All anyone cares about is finding Caylee! (T)
Casey: And you know what, that's all I care about too..... (F)
Casey: They are blaming me for something I didn't... would never do. (F)
Casey: She's close.... real close. (T)
George: We are watching the people that have her. (F)
George: Ya know, it ain't easy living with Cindy and Casey. (T)
Casey: Don't worry, Zanny was paid very well. (F)
Cindy: There was no odor in the car when it was towed to the tow yard. (F)
George: It was an overpowering smell. (T)
Cindy: Maybe somebody put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. (F)
Lee: The trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to...ventilate the horrible smell. (T)
Cindy: Casey always kept a spare key in her pocket in case she accidentally locked the car door. (F)
Casey: In a backwards kind of way (F)
Lee: She conveyed to me (T)
Lee: I reached out to him (T)
Cindy: It was the pizza, George, wasn't it the pizza? (F)
Casey: All anyone cares about is finding Caylee (T)
Casey: And you know what, that's all I care about too! (F)
Cindy: Casey has her reasons why she can't be completely honest with the police (T)
Lee: Is this like the last time? (?)

[della_17_99]

HERE IS THE SECOND AMENDED LIST OF "FACTS"
<Respectfully snipped>
40) There were internet searches for chloroform on the home computer
<Bolding mine>

And trace evidence of Chloroform WAS detected in the trunk of that car.
(Not trying to be a pest, Puff :wink:)

[need2no]

Cindy: "She's leading you to a place, but she's not telling you to the exact right apartment, because she's afraid, if someone walks in, something may happen to Caylee. That's all I can say without jeopardizing this case."

Cindy: "I never met Zaneida, but I heard about her for 2 years."

Cindy: "No one here is giving a flipping, God's anything about her, except us two right here," said Cindy Anthony while pointing to her husband, George Anthony.


According to the elder Hopkins, they know the Anthony family and were asked by the family not to talk. (hearsay?)

When INSIDE EDITION's Paul Boyd asked the couple if they've ever once considered their daughter may have killed her only child, George was quick to respond. "I've never asked myself that. The reason why is I know she would never do that."

Cindy to GVS: "Search inside yourself before you ask me a stupid question I can't answer."
Cindy to GVS: "I'm really stressed and if you want me to collapse on your screen so you will have some real sensationalism on your show....."


CINDY: “Today is actually very hopeful day. You know, I just found out that, you know, they did charge her formally today, which actually is a good thing because look what they charged her with. They didn`t charge her with anything but with, you know, voluntary child neglect and withholding evidence. If they had anything concrete on her, I think they would have used that today. Today was the last day that they had an opportunity to do so. That is in essence, a victory for us.”

Puff, I think it would be a good idea to have a separate list of just the things casey has said, rather than having them intermingled with G & C...just a thought. I'll be happy to review the videos and capture the best and put to writing if you'd like. Just let me know.

[Cinsd]

Cindy: we went to Atty. Mr. Kelly & had papers drawn up on Caylee just in case something happened to Casey

LE: after talking to Mr. Kelly, he has no files or information on that

[PuffDragon]

George chasing after casey in cindy's car. No ez pass record.

cindy saying casey is mother of the year.

Got it. Thanks done.

[PuffDragon]

THE ONES I SOMEHOW LEFT OFF THIS MORNING'S LIST:

55) Cindy yelled at people to get off their azzes and search for Caylee.
56) Cindy didn't want any searches performed if they were focused on finding a dead Caylee.
57) Casey and Lee exchanged a high 5 going into JB's office for a meeting
58) Casey slept in Cindy's room when she was out on bail.
59) Casey and TonE went to Blockbuster for movies on the night of the 16th.
60) Measurable traces of chloroform were found in the trunk
61) Trash bag from TonE's house was found in the trunk
62) Casey borrowed a shovel from neighbor Brian Burner sometime during the week of the 16th of June
63) A public memorial service was scheduled for February 10. Many principal people were told they were not welcome
64) There is no EZpass record to substantiate George's story of chasing Casey in Cindy's car

[PuffDragon]

<Bolding mine>

And trace evidence of Chloroform WAS detected in the trunk of that car.
(Not trying to be a pest, Puff :wink:)

*Bolding mine

Certainly not anything pesty about it della. I'm really glad you mentioned it and made me look back, because I knew I had written it already. I must have been asleep this morning when I did the addition, I left about 7 or 8 of them off somehow. So now they're in with the rest, thank you for that. Had one more to add anyway.

[PuffDragon]

<snipped for space>

Puff, I think it would be a good idea to have a separate list of just the things casey has said, rather than having them intermingled with G & C...just a thought. I'll be happy to review the videos and capture the best and put to writing if you'd like. Just let me know.

Wow, n2n, you'd do that? That would be great!! I accept your offer with much gratefulness.

I think I'll have to change that list into a regular wps document, the Cindy lines are too long to fit in my regular database. It's going to take me a little while to weed the 'Caseyisms' out of the others and start a new list but I'll get right on it. Your additions are terrific! Thanks.

[PuffDragon]

By need2no's suggestion, this is a separate list of just Casey's words:

CASEYISMS

1) Zanny took her
2) My gut feeling....she's still OK.
3) They are blaming me for something I didn't....would never do!
4) She's close....real close
5) I would lie or steal to get my daughter back.
6) Don't worry, Zanny was paid very well.
7) In a backwards kind of way
8) All anyone cares about is finding Caylee
9) And you know what, that's all I care about too!

I'll remove them from the "Antspeak" list the next time I update it.

[need2no]

Wow, n2n, you'd do that? That would be great!! I accept your offer with much gratefulness.

I think I'll have to change that list into a regular wps document, the Cindy lines are too long to fit in my regular database. It's going to take me a little while to weed the 'Caseyisms' out of the others and start a new list but I'll get right on it. Your additions are terrific! Thanks.

Thanks Puff for taking my suggestion, and I'll get right on reviewing the jail visits and other comments from casey and send you the summation ASAP. I'm looking forward to having these all in one place.

I have some more Cindy and George stuff...I just didn't want to overwhelm you with too much at one time.

Thank you for all your time and hard work on this project! :wub:

[PuffDragon]

Cindy: we went to Atty. Mr. Kelly & had papers drawn up on Caylee just in case something happened to Casey

LE: after talking to Mr. Kelly, he has no files or information on that

Sorry Cinsd, I missed your message when I was here earlier. I do have a reference to that supposed arrangement with the lawyer, it's in the "Lies" list, although I didn't have his name.

[PuffDragon]

Thanks Puff for taking my suggestion, and I'll get right on reviewing the jail visits and other comments from casey and send you the summation ASAP. I'm looking forward to having these all in one place.

I have some more Cindy and George stuff...I just didn't want to overwhelm you with too much at one time.

Thank you for all your time and hard work on this project! :wub:

You're great, n2n, I really appreciate your help! I have both lists redone so I'm ready, send along anytime!!

[need2no]

You're great, n2n, I really appreciate your help! I have both lists redone so I'm ready, send along anytime!!

Hey Puff, here's some statements (for starters) from casey at the July 30 jail visit with Cindy and George. Got to tell ya, I feel like I took one for the team tonight. :biggrin: But seriously, glad to help out.

Trust me I know everyday gets longer when it’s Wednesday, so it’s been 2 weeks.

I just wish that you know outside of our family and friends and the community there was more people directly involved with the case that their focus was on Caylee.

Oh absolutely.

You know I’m going to give you any help that I can considering where I am at, and the situation so….

Mom, we’re not talking, we can’t!

Cindy in re: is there anything you want us to tell Caylee (through the media). Just tell her that I love her, miss her, I mean that’s, that’s the constant.

I’m being as strong as I can considering the situation, it’s just hard, it’s just very hard.

God, I just want to go home. Everyday I wake up I’m just hoping and praying that I get to go home, I just want to be with you guys, I want to help find her. Because I am feeling a little hopeless here, I mean honestly not really hopeless but more helpless because I can’t do anything from where I’m at.

Everyday I am worried about grandma, how is she, is there any change?

My heart is aching because I just wanna be back with our family. At least my gut everyday is stronger and stronger I know we’re going to see Caylee, I know she is coming home, I can feel it. I want you to know that. Everyday I can feel it mom. I know that I am going to be home with you guys, I know she’s going to be with us. Everyone just has to keep that faith, because mine is getting stronger everyday.

I do need to keep myself distracted.

Everything happens for a reason.

I know, I miss you guys too. Trust me you have no idea.

Dad, God, I can’t say this enough to you. You’ve done everything you possibly can and you are the best father and by far you’re the best grandfather I’ve ever met. I’m going to keep saying this and I mean it with all my heart. Don’t for a second think otherwise because I won’t let you, cause it’s not the case. You and mom have done everything you can to be the best parents and especially the best grandparents.

And we’re coming home. And we’re all going back there, we’re all going to be home together. You guys just need to have strong faith just keep believing that because it’s going to happen. I was just telling mom I mean I can feel it more everyday so I don’t want you, you know you guys not to eat, or not to sleep. Take care of mom please, she needs to eat. She was talking about me getting too skinny but I’ve always been this way. She needs to take care of herself. I don’t want to see anything happen to anybody, especially because of this.

I just want you guys to keep your focus where it’s been, where it’s important.

ETA: I may have overlooked it, but I didn't notice anything on your fact list about the A's throwing out the stuffed animals someone gave them....allegedly because they smelled like smoke.

[PuffDragon]

Hey Puff, here's some statements (for starters) from casey at the July 30 jail visit with Cindy and George. Got to tell ya, I feel like I took one for the team tonight. :biggrin: But seriously, glad to help out.

<snipped for space>

ETA: I may have overlooked it, but I didn't notice anything on your fact list about the A's throwing out the stuffed animals someone gave them....allegedly because they smelled like smoke.

Bolded to address:

Yes, after reading through those I see exactly what you mean!!! Ack. I might need a little liquid courage before I can start putting those in the document.

No, you didn't overlook the stuffed animals issue, It's not there. I forgot it completely. Thank you so much for noticing. I should have remembered it, I was so annoyed when it happened.

I'll go get some of that courage and start working on Caseyisms.

[PuffDragon]

Hey Puff, here's some statements (for starters) from casey at the July 30 jail visit with Cindy and George. Got to tell ya, I feel like I took one for the team tonight. :biggrin: But seriously, glad to help out.

<snipped for bandwidth>



Okay n2n, they are in, I'm ready for more when you feel strong enough. Gaah! That was painful. Juxtaposed with the special that's running on HLN about the memorial and the family dynamics it was a double whammy! barf(I almost never use that smilie but it was necessary) I need more of that liquid courage..........

[need2no]

Okay n2n, they are in, I'm ready for more when you feel strong enough. Gaah! That was painful. Juxtaposed with the special that's running on HLN about the memorial and the family dynamics it was a double whammy! barf(I almost never use that smilie but it was necessary) I need more of that liquid courage..........

Puff I think we earned the right to use the barf smilie today; the memorial combined with listening to the talking heads tonight sent me straight for the liquid courage.

I'll try to send some more stuff later tonight.

[rainbo]

Not sure where you'd want to put this, but there was a stain in the trunk of the car, along with the smell of decomposition and the hair strands.

GA also told LE about CA rushing past him to keep him out of the trunk of her car.

NG talked about a high school friend of CA who said they double bagged and buried dead pets in the same location and manner that Caylee was found.

Computer search about how to make household weapons.
It was onfirmed that both parents were working during the time of key searches on the computer.

[rainbo]

Adding more: Casey's reaction when LP and crew thought they found a bag containing tiny bones in the Little Econ river, Casey got up from her chair at the jail and walked back to her cell which is indicative of knowing that her body wasn't there.

LP said Casey told someone in his crew that Zanny and her sister Samantha took Caylee from her in Blanchard Park and left her with a script to follow for 30 days.

[PuffDragon]

<respectfully snipped for space>


Thanks rainbo, this is good. I can use all the help I can get. I thought I knew a lot of details but I don't do so well remembering so I can write them down. All the cooks stirring the pot helps tremendously.

[PuffDragon]

Puff I think we earned the right to use the barf smilie today; the memorial combined with listening to the talking heads tonight sent me straight for the liquid courage.

I'll try to send some more stuff later tonight.

Excellent work n2n. You must have a strong stomach to stay on this. I was actually cringing copying those last while watching Nancy and Jane rerun Cindy at the memorial 'telling' Casey that she wished she could be there to hold her and comfort her and wipe away her tears barf. Here's me, :cursing: hitting the keyboard too hard and going sure, sure she needs comforting, sure she does....... grrrrr.

[need2no]

Hiya Puff...I got sidetracked due to the memorial, but I'll have some more casey stuff for you tomorrow. Meanwhile I decided to detour and transcribe Lee's strange speech from the memorial. I think we will want to have this down in writing as we move forward... IYKWIM, and I'm sure you do. :smile: Speaking of a strong stomach........

LEE ANTHONY:

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank everyone that has had any sort of role in making today a special day, thank-you.

If I could ask something from anybody that was willing to hear it, it would be this.
For those of us that are frightened, or angry, or mournful or that just don’t understand, I ask that you fill your heart with patience and grace, and that you allow yourself to yield any judgments that you may already have. (clears throat)

For those of us that will never be the same again (sigh) I ask that you feel, fill your heart with hope, with compassion and truth, and I ask that you allow your conscience to speak for you when your mind cannot comprehend the right words to say.

I sincerely hope that this day allows those affected by it to take from it whatever it is that you need to take. If it’s closure you seek here today, I certainly hope you are able to find it. Today is the day to remember. Today is the day to pay tribute. Today is the day for this family to unite and display their solidarity and strength.

I’ve got to tell you it is hard to stand up here and be the pillar of strength.

This family is united, but this family is incomplete. I’m incomplete. I’ve broken.

CMA (pause, sigh) it will never be the same again. (sigh)
*kisses right wrist, twice*
CMA each day you continue to teach me about life and about the way it should be lived.
Each day you give me the ability to be strong, or to be weak.
It’s been sooo long since I’ve been able to see you or to hug you or tell you how much you mean to me
CMA I miss you, I love you.
CMA I am so proud of you, I hope you are proud of me too. (sniffles, big sigh)
I need you to know that I will never forget the promise that I’ve made to you.
I will never forget.

[PuffDragon]

Hiya Puff...I got sidetracked due to the memorial, but I'll have some more casey stuff for you tomorrow. Meanwhile I decided to detour and transcribe Lee's strange speech from the memorial. I think we will want to have this down in writing as we move forward... IYKWIM, and I'm sure you do. :smile: Speaking of a strong stomach........

<wnipp4e ro5 wpqd3>


Got to stop trying to type in the dark....

Lordy lordy lordy, you have got quite a streak of masochism in you..........

I got to do this, huh? You are testing my strength, n2n, you are indeed :crying:

[SavannahStar]

THE ONES I SOMEHOW LEFT OFF THIS MORNING'S LIST:

55) Cindy yelled at people to get off their azzes and search for Caylee.
56) Cindy didn't want any searches performed if they were focused on finding a dead Caylee.
57) Casey and Lee exchanged a high 5 going into JB's office for a meeting
58) Casey slept in Cindy's room when she was out on bail.
59) Casey and TonE went to Blockbuster for movies on the night of the 16th.
60) Measurable traces of chloroform were found in the trunk
61) Trash bag from TonE's house was found in the trunk
62) Casey borrowed a shovel from neighbor Brian Burner sometime during the week of the 16th of June
63) A public memorial service was scheduled for February 10. Many principal people were told they were not welcome
64) There is no EZpass record to substantiate George's story of chasing Casey in Cindy's car

# 58, Not sure we know that is FACT.

#63,,,,,,"many" principal people? I think the list was 23 or so? And we don't know how many of them actually were indeed "principal".....could include some people we've never heard of. I'd personally change that part of #63 to read, "Some people were put on a 'do not allow in' list by the Anthonys." Something like that.

#57..was that a meeting at JB's office? I thought it was at the police station, for some reason. Check on that. I remember her going through a metal detector or something; that wouldn't be Baez's office would it? I could be wrong, I'm hazy on this. I just don't think it was Baez's office.

#55, would be nice to link a transcript. Or at least give when that was said and where.

[PuffDragon]

# 58, Not sure we know that is FACT.

#63,,,,,,"many" principal people? I think the list was 23 or so? And we don't know how many of them actually were indeed "principal".....could include some people we've never heard of. I'd personally change that part of #63 to read, "Some people were put on a 'do not allow in' list by the Anthonys." Something like that.

#57..was that a meeting at JB's office? I thought it was at the police station, for some reason. Check on that. I remember her going through a metal detector or something; that wouldn't be Baez's office would it? I could be wrong, I'm hazy on this. I just don't think it was Baez's office.

#55, would be nice to link a transcript. Or at least give when that was said and where.

Well, here's my thinking on #58. It was said by several people independent of each other, including LP's person-on-the-spot, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how it can be proven without a photo or something. If someone can give me a good reason for demoting it to hearsay I will entertain the motion.

#63: Okay, I don't want to split hairs, I'll call it "some". But they were 'principal', as opposed to saying I don't want any Hell's Angels, or children, or beach bums or people from Miami. Yes, there might have been some names that we never heard of but that were principal as far as Cindy was concerned, I don't know why she would have excluded people that didn't matter. On the other hand, the word may just be superfluous. Let's see if anyone else has any thoughts on that one.

#57: I got that one straight off a web site where the picture was. I will have to check.

#55: Aw, c'mon SS. I actually have a RL. If anybody wants links they can go find them. This is just a list, mostly to remind people what we actually know for a fact, what is definitely proven to be lies, and what has been taken for granted but not proven. If I put in all the work it would take to link up every item I'd have enough research done to write a book.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................... ...

[SavannahStar]

Well, here's my thinking on #58. It was said by several people independent of each other, including LP's person-on-the-spot, so I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I don't know how it can be proven without a photo or something. If someone can give me a good reason for demoting it to hearsay I will entertain the motion.

#63: Okay, I don't want to split hairs, I'll call it "some". But they were 'principal', as opposed to saying I don't want any Hell's Angels, or children, or beach bums or people from Miami. Yes, there might have been some names that we never heard of but that were principal as far as Cindy was concerned, I don't know why she would have excluded people that didn't matter. On the other hand, the word may just be superfluous. Let's see if anyone else has any thoughts on that one.

#57: I got that one straight off a web site where the picture was. I will have to check.

#55: Aw, c'mon SS. I actually have a RL. If anybody wants links they can go find them. This is just a list, mostly to remind people what we actually know for a fact, what is definitely proven to be lies, and what has been taken for granted but not proven. If I put in all the work it would take to link up every item I'd have enough research done to write a book.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................... ...

Re 57, I'm sure that is not Baez's office. Did a very brief google search...can't spare more time as I'm at work. It's a court appearance, or maybe just a check-in while out on bond.......

As far as the other stuff, well I just thought it would be best if we laid out stuff as fact, very unbiased, and I see some "message board spin" on some of it. Like 58......I wouldn't trust LP.....though it MAY be fact, unless there is corroborative info, I wouldn't put it in a fact column. Especially when it seems pretty inconsequential anyway ..... where she slept......geez.

#63, I just think the way I wrote it sounded more to the point and factual.....but hey it's your thread. We really do NOT know all who was in that group or how many. A lot of speculation though. What we DO know as "fact" is that there indeed was such a list. Not much more than that though.

[Peter]

Re 57, I'm sure that is not Baez's office. Did a very brief google search...can't spare more time as I'm at work. It's a court appearance, or maybe just a check-in while out on bond.......

As far as the other stuff, well I just thought it would be best if we laid out stuff as fact, very unbiased, and I see some "message board spin" on some of it. Like 58......I wouldn't trust LP.....though it MAY be fact, unless there is corroborative info, I wouldn't put it in a fact column. Especially when it seems pretty inconsequential anyway ..... where she slept......geez.

#63, I just think the way I wrote it sounded more to the point and factual.....but hey it's your thread. We really do NOT know all who was in that group or how many. A lot of speculation though. What we DO know as "fact" is that there indeed was such a list. Not much more than that though.


I checked on #57 and it was a high five at the Jail where casey was set to meet with her case worker. Hope this helps.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/09/a-high-five-in.html

[need2no]

OMG Puff..did I actually VOLUNTEER myself for this grueling duty? If I hear UM one more time I'm ABSOLUTELY going to scream. My head is spinning right now, but I must admit it's really something else to listen to the visits this closely, to pay attention to every word-WOW! BTW-casey repeats words, and needless to say makes some strange remarks, and has an odd way of stating things...but I've transcribed it verbatim, so it's not a typo even though it may appear to be. :lol:

We have to keep everything as quiet as possible which is fine, I’d rather talk on other stuff as much as we can anyway.

I don’t want to say it’s par for the course, but again I mean it kind of it is what it is for the moment, and there’s only so much that we can all do and I just want you guys to keep your focus where it’s been, that’s where’s it’s important. Well that just shows that the media although their portraying something people within their own well with, within their own strong mind, believe otherwise, know otherwise, and that’s what’s important.

We’re gonna get our little girl back and she’s gonna be just as she was.

Trust me, I’ve said the same thing, I’m gonna be the crazy over protective mom at that point, but I don’t care, I think it’s well worth it..well deserved.

Yeah well like I said the crazy, I won’t let her out of my sight so I’ll do whatever I have to. I know we’ll figure all that out when it comes to it. We’ll figure out, I mean I’ve been thinking about jobs and schedules and what I could do, you know, how I can….Well we’ll figure all that stuff out, we’ll figure everything out, but I want it to overlap to where we can all have our time, and all be with her. Because she’s not just my little girl, and I know, I mean she’s she’s my baby she’ll always be my baby but she will always be your baby and dad’s baby, and Lee’s baby, she’s our little girl.

I’ve used dad’s hand analogy with a few people and they’ve smiled and they’ve laughed and they’ve said that’s very insightful and it’s very true, that we’re all like a hand. I used that a couple of different times and said that to a few ladies yesterday and it made them smile and you know it’s funny (inaudible)….We’re stronger than we’ve ever been and our strength will continue to grow.

Tell dad to breathe, it’s okay. Remember I can see you, I know.

But you guys are on the right side, you’re trying to find Caylee and that what’s important, that’s everyone’s focus and that’s what it should be.

I’ll continue to do whatever I have to, and you know try to say what I can, when I can, as I can. As soon as I can get out of here….

I, because of the certain circumstances of which I am in here, I have limited time, so that’s why the note that I sent with Jose was really the first chance I’ve gotten, so I’m going to try to do that whenever I get my time with him. Um last night kind of was more of a business angle on things but… whenever I get time to I’m absolutely going to, even if it’s just a little note here and there, I mean I’ll do what I can, when I can so….

My face is wet and I can’t even wipe myself.

Yeah, I think Amy might have been one of those people that tried to come for a visit last night, which I was actually asleep um, you know I want to apologize to whoever was scheduled to come, um. But again, just I kinda want to keep things….

Yeah well, there was someone else that was scheduled I guess after him at nine. I declined both, um I’m declining any visits outside of family, or obviously my time with Jose.
So if you could kind of pass that along to people. I mean not through the media obviously which this might do that anyway um. Just kind of let um know, hey I mean I know that their all there, you I know there are doing what they can for me and for our family, and especially for Caylee..but you know I need to just kind of keep things within our family at this point as much as possible. Keep my focus there, um although I, like I said I’d like to talk to everyone I’d rather just wait and do that when I can see everybody.

So I guess I’m kinda glad that I haven’t been crying every single day and I mean inside, yeah, of course. But I’m keeping my wits about me and I’m staying as strong as I possibly can. This is the strongest I think I’ve ever been. Just because its, even when I wanted to breakdown I mean I’ve been able to calm myself quickly without doing much of that I mean it’s hard considering where I am, considering the situation. But I just keep thinking about you guys and actually that’s the thing that makes it okay, that makes me feel okay about not crying and being so emotionally distraught that I can’t even you know think straight.

[PuffDragon]

I checked on #57 and it was a high five at the Jail where casey was set to meet with her case worker. Hope this helps.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/09/a-high-five-in.html

Okay, thanks Peter, I'll change it. The site where I got it was obviously in error.

[PuffDragon]

OMG Puff..did I actually VOLUNTEER myself for this grueling duty? If I hear UM one more time I'm ABSOLUTELY going to scream. My head is spinning right now, but I must admit it's really something else to listen to the visits this closely, to pay attention to every word-WOW! BTW-casey repeats words, and needless to say makes some strange remarks, and has an odd way of stating things...but I've transcribed it verbatim, so it's not a typo even though it may appear to be. :lol:

<snipped for space>


Oh. My. Gawd. I don't know how you can stand it, actually listening to it. You are earning yourself a medal. You may take a break, this is going to take me a couple of hours....... or more if I have to go out to breathe now and then. :biggrin:

[PuffDragon]

Re 57, I'm sure that is not Baez's office. Did a very brief google search...can't spare more time as I'm at work. It's a court appearance, or maybe just a check-in while out on bond.......

As far as the other stuff, well I just thought it would be best if we laid out stuff as fact, very unbiased, and I see some "message board spin" on some of it. Like 58......I wouldn't trust LP.....though it MAY be fact, unless there is corroborative info, I wouldn't put it in a fact column. Especially when it seems pretty inconsequential anyway ..... where she slept......geez.

#63, I just think the way I wrote it sounded more to the point and factual.....but hey it's your thread. We really do NOT know all who was in that group or how many. A lot of speculation though. What we DO know as "fact" is that there indeed was such a list. Not much more than that though.

Your memory has been validated SS. Peter checked and says it's the jail so I will change it in my database and when I update the list. I didn't check because it came from one of those lists that everybody has been taking for granted to be valid. I will have to be more careful.

I know what you're saying, but Cindy also said Casey slept in her room and so did George. Now I know, I know, they lie, but they would have had to get LP's woman, why can I never remember her name?.....to tell the same lie. I thought that was enough corroboration. You're right though, it's meaningless. You'll notice that I put the 'reason' casey slept in Cindy's room in the 'Hearsay' column because we have no corroboration that Baez said it was to keep Casey from engaging in 'girl talk' at night.

I'm really trying to stay away from Message Board Spin, it's the whole point of this exercise. That's why I didn't list names that people thought were included. We do know from several sources that there was a list, you're right that it's all we really do know, I suppose it shouldn't even hint that the people who were excluded were names we would recognize. I'd just like some other input before I pull the rest of that phrase.

Good work picking it apart, though. That's why I'm doing this. Keep on.

[need2no]

Oh. My. Gawd. I don't know how you can stand it, actually listening to it. You are earning yourself a medal. You may take a break, this is going to take me a couple of hours....... or more if I have to go out to breathe now and then. :biggrin:


Deep cleansing breaths I'll tell ya, deep cleansing breaths.

Take your time Puff...I need to rest my weary ears before resuming the distasteful task.

And you can keep the metal, just pass me a stiff drink instead, k?

I will be hearing um, caseyisms in my sleep tonight.....:scared:

[SavannahStar]

Your memory has been validated SS. Peter checked and says it's the jail so I will change it in my database and when I update the list. I didn't check because it came from one of those lists that everybody has been taking for granted to be valid. I will have to be more careful.

I know what you're saying, but Cindy also said Casey slept in her room and so did George. Now I know, I know, they lie, but they would have had to get LP's woman, why can I never remember her name?.....to tell the same lie. I thought that was enough corroboration. You're right though, it's meaningless. You'll notice that I put the 'reason' casey slept in Cindy's room in the 'Hearsay' column because we have no corroboration that Baez said it was to keep Casey from engaging in 'girl talk' at night.

I'm really trying to stay away from Message Board Spin, it's the whole point of this exercise. That's why I didn't list names that people thought were included. We do know from several sources that there was a list, you're right that it's all we really do know, I suppose it shouldn't even hint that the people who were excluded were names we would recognize. I'd just like some other input before I pull the rest of that phrase.

Good work picking it apart, though. That's why I'm doing this. Keep on.

Thanks. I like to look at things with a totally and completely unbiased eye. Even though I do think Casey is guilty......I don't share many of the other opinions as many do, especially regarding the Anthonys. So I just try to look at the lists as if I were coming in from the outside with no preconceived ideas. I think the lists should be totally factual, short and sweet, with no spin and no guesswork.

It's kinda like an editing job.....and I love (and do in my job) editing.

I come over here from the regular threads for an intellectual exercise. It's fun. So thanks for that, Puffy.

:smile:

[Shades]

snipped
17) Mallory is pregnant
18) Casey is pregnant



Forgive me please for jumping in so late, but....
What is this about Casey & Mallory???

[Luv-of-Roses]

LEE ANTHONY:



CMA (pause, sigh) it will never be the same again. (sigh)
*kisses right wrist, twice*
CMA each day you continue to teach me about life and about the way it should be lived.
Each day you give me the ability to be strong, or to be weak.
It’s been sooo long since I’ve been able to see you or to hug you or tell you how much you mean to me
CMA I miss you, I love you.
CMA I am so proud of you, I hope you are proud of me too. (sniffles, big sigh)
I need you to know that I will never forget the promise that I’ve made to you.
I will never forget.

Been reading these posts for the past couple of weeks, watching HLN for the last month. I want to commend everyone for their dedication to finding the truth about what happened to Caylee:thumbsup:

It was the same with Laci & Conner:smile: In any case, I heard last night that LA was talking about all three of the A women when he said the above quote. I think I might have an idea who he was directing his comments to and felt a need to share; please feel free to add your own opinion if you feel I am wrong or right:wink:

CMA #1- Casey
CMA #2- Cindy
CMA #3- Caylee
CMA #4- This one stumps me-but could be Casey

[PuffDragon]

Deep cleansing breaths I'll tell ya, deep cleansing breaths.

Take your time Puff...I need to rest my weary ears before resuming the distasteful task.

And you can keep the metal, just pass me a stiff drink instead, k?

I will be hearing um, caseyisms in my sleep tonight.....:scared:

Breathing, breathing...........

I think your job is worse than mine, I don't have to hear it.

I don't have your last page in yet anyway. My power was off for most of yesterday and I was too cold to do much consistent typing. I have a little quartz heater that takes a while to adjust once the room has been cold for a long time so it's only at 65 now, okay for sleeping but I've got to kick it up a little before I attempt much finger movement...... (for some reason I have trouble typing when my nose is freezing).
Meanwhile I can invite you to share my bench and my Cabernet.

[PuffDragon]

Thanks. I like to look at things with a totally and completely unbiased eye. Even though I do think Casey is guilty......I don't share many of the other opinions as many do, especially regarding the Anthonys. So I just try to look at the lists as if I were coming in from the outside with no preconceived ideas. I think the lists should be totally factual, short and sweet, with no spin and no guesswork.

It's kinda like an editing job.....and I love (and do in my job) editing.

I come over here from the regular threads for an intellectual exercise. It's fun. So thanks for that, Puffy.

:smile:

Yes, that's what it is, an intellectual exercise, and it is indeed fun. Do you like Logic Puzzles too? (I do.)
It's hard work to keep the spin and guesswork out of the lists so I'm glad you are keeping watch on me. It's like that typo that gets passed over 5 times until somebody else reads the passage and sees it right away, I sometimes can't see it myself. And sometimes it's deliberate. With you and n2n and the others over here with suggestions we have a decent chance of ending up with a fairly good overview. Thanks for staying.

[PuffDragon]

Forgive me please for jumping in so late, but....
What is this about Casey & Mallory???



Hearsay. Probably false but no proof either way.

[PuffDragon]

Been reading these posts for the past couple of weeks, watching HLN for the last month. I want to commend everyone for their dedication to finding the truth about what happened to Caylee

It was the same with Laci & Conner In any case, I heard last night that LA was talking about all three of the A women when he said the above quote. I think I might have an idea who he was directing his comments to and felt a need to share; please feel free to add your own opinion if you feel I am wrong or right

CMA #1- Casey
CMA #2- Cindy
CMA #3- Caylee
CMA #4- This one stumps me-but could be Casey

<smilies deleted so I could add my own>

Welcome to the boards and thanks for coming over to check this thread out.

I don't know how n2n could even write that part in without adding the barf smilie.

I'm trying not to make a guess because doing so makes it hard for me to keep the categories separate (and not guessing helps to keep me from getting misdirected). It's going in the Antspeak list (although I'm toying with the idea of a separate list for each Ant, but the conjecture belongs - and I might add a notation of some kind - in the hearsay column.

[Luv-of-Roses]

<smilies deleted so I could add my own>

Welcome to the boards and thanks for coming over to check this thread out.

I don't know how n2n could even write that part in without adding the barf smilie.

I'm trying not to make a guess because doing so makes it hard for me to keep the categories separate (and not guessing helps to keep me from getting misdirected). It's going in the Antspeak list (although I'm toying with the idea of a separate list for each Ant, but the conjecture belongs - and I might add a notation of some kind - in the hearsay column.

Thanks for the welcome and I agree with you about n2n and the upchuck icon. Left yours in as I think it's better where it belongs:wink:

[PuffDragon]

Ah, I see we are open again.

N2n, I am finished with those last Caseyisms you posted. Funny how typing them out makes you see things you didn't notice just listening. What I noticed was that she didn't say anything. Practically nothing in any of those statements had any substance. Nothing but platitudes and things she must have imagined they wanted to hear. I also think a lot of those things sounded like she was repeating practically verbatim things Dear Jose said to her. She probably made a mental note "That sounds good, remember to use it later."

I'm sure you noticed and asked yourself who she talked to...which women?.... to relate George's analogy about the hand and they were so receptive to the idea?
I think there were a couple more things that I noticed too but I don't remember now, I'll have to go back and read and see it they strike me the same way again, but that one really stuck, I thought she was in isolation, who is she talking to then?

[need2no]

Ah, I see we are open again.

N2n, I am finished with those last Caseyisms you posted. Funny how typing them out makes you see things you didn't notice just listening. What I noticed was that she didn't say anything. Practically nothing in any of those statements had any substance. Nothing but platitudes and things she must have imagined they wanted to hear. I also think a lot of those things sounded like she was repeating practically verbatim things Dear Jose said to her. She probably made a mental note "That sounds good, remember to use it later."

I'm sure you noticed and asked yourself who she talked to...which women?.... to relate George's analogy about the hand and they were so receptive to the idea?
I think there were a couple more things that I noticed too but I don't remember now, I'll have to go back and read and see it they strike me the same way again, but that one really stuck, I thought she was in isolation, who is she talking to then?


Hey Puff..thanks for letting me know you are caught up. I was working on more transcribing last night, (after noting the board was closed), but real life pulled me away. I have a busy day lined up, but I should have some more for you at some point tonight. With the delay in the trial I want to capture everything I can in case some of it goes POOF..I've seen that happen in other cases I've followed.

YES, I did note the comment about talking to the ladies. My only guess.. (IF it is even true), is she talks to some of the female guards. Could be they are trying to chat with her in an attempt to get some juicy tid bits, or just 'get in her head' :scared:-who knows. Also her feeble attempt to warm G & C's hearts-ugh. Cindy didn't sound to be very impressed... much like the stupid preacher story casey found so funny, Cindy hardly commented after hearing it.

The scheduled Amy visit she spoke of bothered me...clearly a lie since she was never on the visitor list (that I recall seeing)...so why lie? Was she trying to convince mom and dad that even though she screwed over Amy, they are still friends, and Amy has forgiven her for the dirty deeds. It seems casey just has a 'need' to lie even when it doesn't mean a thing, or is necessary, or can be proven as a lie.

I agree...much of what she says is to placate mom and dad...wonder if it really works, or they just play along.

Have a good V day! Stay tuned for more......:biggrin:

[PuffDragon]

Hey Puff..thanks for letting me know you are caught up. I was working on more transcribing last night, (after noting the board was closed), but real life pulled me away. I have a busy day lined up, but I should have some more for you at some point tonight. With the delay in the trial I want to capture everything I can in case some of it goes POOF..I've seen that happen in other cases I've followed.

YES, I did note the comment about talking to the ladies. My only guess.. (IF it is even true), is she talks to some of the female guards. Could be they are trying to chat with her in an attempt to get some juicy tid bits, or just 'get in her head' :scared:-who knows. Also her feeble attempt to warm G & C's hearts-ugh. Cindy didn't sound to be very impressed... much like the stupid preacher story casey found so funny, Cindy hardly commented after hearing it.

The scheduled Amy visit she spoke of bothered me...clearly a lie since she was never on the visitor list (that I recall seeing)...so why lie? Was she trying to convince mom and dad that even though she screwed over Amy, they are still friends, and Amy has forgiven her for the dirty deeds. It seems casey just has a 'need' to lie even when it doesn't mean a thing, or is necessary, or can be proven as a lie.

I agree...much of what she says is to placate mom and dad...wonder if it really works, or they just play along.

Have a good V day! Stay tuned for more......:biggrin:

*Bolding mine

I think they are so used to agreeing that they don't know any other way. Easier to believe than to question when it's Casey. Those are the most useless and pointless conversations I've ever heard. These people didn't communicate, they just said words at each other.

I came on last night to let you know and found the door locked. Glad CW unlocked it this morning.

I wondered about the guards, I think that's a good thought that they might be letting her talk........ although I think it's futile to expect her to actually say anything useful. I'm sure she is just taking the opportunity to hone her conversational skills ......

You're right, get as much as you can before it disappears. Then we'll have it at least if somebody needs a reference. Let me know when your liquid courage runs out, I still have half a bottle.

Happy :wub: day to you too! I'm tuned...........

[need2no]

Um, I mean here's some more um stuff Puff so...pass the other 1/2 of that bottle you mentioned. Actually when you read through this you will think I've had too much to drink, but these ARE casey's words, strange as they sound. I had to stop when it got into the Zanny convo, just couldn't handle it tonight. :w00t:

Can dad stand up and model again? Oh wow, that’s good, yeah that’s really good.
Annie had those done? She’s awesome. Tell Annie thank you, yeah, tell her thank you. Cool. BIG sigh.

Didn’t get to sleep early the night before so I was catching up on the from last night. I think I passed out like 7:30, woke up maybe twice in the middle of the night, passed back out and woke up at 5:15-5:20 when breakfast came this morning. So I at least got good sleep last night. So I’m still a little tired, um.

You’re not a little voice by any means. And you know what’s funny, I’m going to say this and you’re gonna laugh, and I think it’s hilarious. Everybody always says, you guys have always said that I’m the loudest one in our family, and then it’s you, and then it’s Lee, and then dad, cause dad’s the quiet reserved one, we all know this. But I’ve been told otherwise from multiple sources, that it’s your son who’s the loud one, then it’s you, then it’s me, so HA. Oh you’re still the middle one, so you’re still the moderator within that, so it’s not too bad.

We know that dad will always process things thoroughly before having some sort of reaction or really before saying anything, he’s very choice with his words, he always has been, um…which is good because I think within our family we kind of need someone like that cause you know little Caylee is like you and I, so……

It’s so good to see you guys, you have no idea. I just wanna keep saying that.

I’ll see you guys and talk to you guys whenever, I mean all I’m doing is sitting around reading and (excuse me) getting a chance to nap a little bit so…..

Just tell him, you know, thank you for for everything that he’s doing. I know he’s doing whatever he possibly can, you know when we had our conversation the other day I know I helped him out as much as I could, we did our business and then we got a chance to talk about the charities and he told me everything that is going on so I mean it’s, I’m glad that you three are kind of all doing different things but at the same time I know everyone’s efforts are focused on Caylee and that’s that’s what’s important to me, and what I’m glad is happening, so….

Yeah I was talking with one of the doctors.
Uh hold on.
You can probably hear it.
Can you turn the volume down, yeah my head’s gonna explode.
Is that better?

I haven’t said anything, don’t worry.
Is that better?
Yeah that’s perfect.

I didn’t get a chance to ask Lee, um.

She had a drumset, yes.

I think there are even other pictures, I told Lee to look thoroughly through everything.

Ricardo’s apartment was set up a lot like Zanny’s. No, that exact apartment was it’s setup a lot like Zanny’s apartment.


Lee and I already talked about this, I don’t know it could be on the disc at home, I don’t know.

I gave Lee everything, already, I gave Lee all of the passwords everything that could possibly (inaudible) I don’t want to go over it all over again.

I gave Lee the password.

I want to be able to look at you guys too, I can’t look at you and the camera.

I don’t know Mom. I haven’t been able to talk to anybody. I don’t know, I’m hoping there if there’s people involved there’s as many people that are dumb enough to open their mouths and say something as possible. But mom, I have nothing to go off of at the moment. I don’t know, I really, I don’t know. Jose and I go over this every time we talk. And the things that Lee told me today I am extremely aggravated about, because I haven’t gotten a single letter. Nothing that you’ve given him has gotten back to me.

Well I got two letters that were sent directly to the jail but nothing has been given to him, has been given to me.

He can at least…..

I read the one little note yes, but Lee said that he’s written letters and he’s written other stuff.

Well according to Lee..

I’m not losing faith I’m just gonna have a lot of questions for him when I see him hopefully (inaudible)


I have a lot of questions.

And I gonna ask you something that he told me. I guess there’s a lady that came forward on the news um her and her son were at the airport said they saw Caylee, spoke to Caylee.

Do you have anymore information on that?

Well, I want someone outside of the Sheriff’s Department looking into these things. I mean I want Lee to look into stuff, I want you guys to look into stuff, I want Jose to look into this stuff. I don’t want just one……..

Have you spoken to her yourself?

Good well that’s what I wanted to know.

I don’t want just one person running errands for me, someone that I have no contact with.

[need2no]

Went past my character allotment on the last post :ohmy:.....

After listening to just one of the visits repeatedly to pick up casey's exact words, here are some of my observations, nothing that I'm sure you and many others haven't already noted....

casey is so clearly bored when the convo ISN'T focused on HER, like when they talk about the tee shirts, the grandparents, the media, details of what may have happened to Caylee...she trys to fake it, but doesn't do it very well, these things are just not what's important to her, no question about it, lots of sighing going on. On the other hand when the convo is centered on her and her alone, she sounds almost giddy, she's enthusiastic, cheerful, perky ad nauseum. She says at least a couple of times during this visit how she knows the focus is on Caylee as it should be, as she wants, it's what important etc......very unconvincing...why even state such when it should be a given the focus is on her missing daughter. (I know, I know.) It reminds me of the way George said I'm being straight with you guys, the smell in that car really bothered me...well h*ll yeah I bet it did, it should have...stupid arse gratuitous statement. A stranger walking by that car would have been bothered by the smell, let alone if they thought it was the smell of decomp from their gd!! >shaking head<

casey does not like to get interrupted, and George and Cindy do it often, especially Cindy. casey will sigh deeply and you can almost hear the anger seething from her..how dare they talk on and on instead of listening to ME and what I have to say!
There are a couple of times I could swear I hear sshhhh during the video...can't tell if it's because of what casey is saying, or Cindy's trying to calm her like a baby.

It's weird how at times she sounds arrogant, all knowing, confident, almost as if she is the one in charge sitting on the other side of that glass telling the jail inmate what needs to be done and how to do it, rather than the other way around. Then at other times she is like a frail insecure child...pitiful, needy, and often trying to win them over with her poor pitiful me statements, strange compliments and attempts at humor.

Her ill timed and inappropriate chuckles and laughter really get under my skin, I find it unnerving.

Of note: Annie had the MISSING CHILD t-shirts "done" per Cindy.
Cindy stated she hadn't given the letter from Annie to him yet (I assume she means Jose, and they are trying to circumvent going through the normal jail mail system.) Is LE letting THIS slide?????
Cindy asks casey if there is anything she wants her to tell Annie.
*Annie seems pretty tight with the A's.* Interesting in view of our suspicions she knows a lot and that's why LE has held back her interview, and we haven't heard from her through the media.

When Cindy tells casey that according to the media Will cancelled the jail visit casey pretends not to hear and proceeds to ramble past that little uncomplimentary statement-lol.

Did you notice casey is smoking in the July 30 visit, part one? I had to back it up and replay several times to convince myself she indeed is smoking. Am I the only one who never noticed this before? I think it's around 3:40 on the video if you're interested.

It bugs me the audio and picture are out of sync and there are long pauses in the tape, it makes me wonder if parts have been cropped before releasing to the public. :confused: What say you?

[PuffDragon]

<snipped for space here and there>

After listening to just one of the visits repeatedly to pick up casey's exact words, here are some of my observations, nothing that I'm sure you and many others haven't already noted....

Did you notice casey is smoking in the July 30 visit, part one? I had to back it up and replay several times to convince myself she indeed is smoking. Am I the only one who never noticed this before? I think it's around 3:40 on the video if you're interested.

It bugs me the audio and picture are out of sync and there are long pauses in the tape, it makes me wonder if parts have been cropped before releasing to the public. :confused: What say you?

Holy cow, n2n, gulp, I've got to go get a case, that 1/2 bottle isn't going to be nearly enough for this project!

Mostly what I've noticed is that Casey's conversations are incredibly boring. She really doesn't have anything interesting to say. I can't imagine how Dear Jose can stand to talk to her. Even when it's all about her (and yes, you're perceptive, that's pretty much the only time there's any animation in her at all) it's shallow and boring.

Smoking? Wait....
AARGH! I just went and watched all 21 minutes of that July 30 video. I need more than a bottle after that. Oh that was so horrible. I only saw that one second at about at yes, 3:40, where there was a brief flash of what might have been a quick smoke, I'm not sure. I ran it back a couple of times and it looked like there may have been a cut there. I never saw it again. Of course I suppose a cig could have burned out in the ash tray and she didn't have any more. Maybe somebody else will chime in here on that.
Another thing that was so obvious and that isn't noticeable in print but is unmistakeable in the video is how Casey switches personalities depending on whether she's talking to Cindy or George. It's like turning a switch, she goes back and forth so easily; it was annoying to have the audio so badly out of sync but it was amusing to watch Casey using the wrong personality (listening to her talk to George while the video was showing her talking to Cindy).

Casey 'cries' when she thinks she has to but every once in a while she starts thinking about herself and forgets to cry and then has to restart. Sickening. And how toward the end of the visit Cindy is crying and in such pain and begging for reassurance and Casey acts like the strong one, being supportive reasonable. Where is her own panic and hysteria? Like one of your transcriptions.....in the beginning when they start and Cindy gets George to model the new Caylee shirt Case looks and admires it as if it was just a nice new shirt George got, didn't involve her at all, oh... a picture of an adorable missing child who....oh, yeh, just happens to be hers. Nice shirt, yep, great picture, okay lets talk about me now. barf

The more I see of Casey the more I dislike her. I wonder sometimes how, when they were alone, she actually related to Caylee.

Ok, I'll go copy now. I may have to do it in stages. Typing it is bad enough but being captive to watching and analyzing is extremely painful. "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din". Well okay, I know the gender is wrong but that line is fixed in stone and can't be changed. Give me the morning and then we'll get together on that bench and share a couple.

[PuffDragon]

<snipped for space>

Did you notice casey is smoking in the July 30 visit, part one? I had to back it up and replay several times to convince myself she indeed is smoking. Am I the only one who never noticed this before? I think it's around 3:40 on the video if you're interested.

It bugs me the audio and picture are out of sync and there are long pauses in the tape, it makes me wonder if parts have been cropped before releasing to the public. :confused: What say you?

Still thinking......

I went back and watched just that one second of the video again and I still can't tell. One clue that might refute it though: we don't see that she has bought any cigarettes during her weekly shopping spree.

I'm not sure about the videos being cropped. Part one ran for just about 21 minutes and part two for about 18. Now I admit to being math-challenged but by my figuring that's about 40 minutes of tape. Didn't we hear at some point that the visits were 45 minutes? I don't know if they start the timer when they go in or when they start talking, but if there is anything missing it can't be very much. I didn't see any noticeably long pauses in the tape except when the display had to catch up with the download a couple of times. I don't have any idea what kind of technology they use to do the recording so I can't think how easy or hard it would be to block something out or if the hesitations are just due to glitches in the recording process itself.

After watching the interaction between Casey and her parents I honestly don't know how they could have lived with her. I wonder if Cindy ever regretted encouraging Casey to keep the baby? Talk about being conflicted, Caylee was obviously precious to her but having to have Casey there too must have made the conflict so much more toxic than it had ever been previously.

I'd sure like to know exactly what Casey meant when she wrote "DRAAAAMA" on her Facebook page.
Hmmmm, do you know if those pages, hers and Cindy's, are still available? They are pretty significant to what was going on in their minds at that time. Maybe I ought to have those posts on here too............

:crying:

[callmetree]

thahs puff for reminding me of all the things that have happened in this case. will it ever stop being a circus? i just want the creature in court!:thumbup:

[PuffDragon]

Okay, n2n, I jumped right into the water and got that new section all done. Whew! We are going to need a 12-point recovery program when this is over!

[PuffDragon]

thahs puff for reminding me of all the things that have happened in this case. will it ever stop being a circus? i just want the creature in court!:thumbup:

At least with the lists we'll have something to refer to as we wait a year or two for the trial, because once there's no new information to be had this will all fade from the media, the public will lose interest, and we'll start forgetting the details. I hope we can get it as complete as possible before we start losing pages.

[ellegna]

snipped

Did you notice casey is smoking in the July 30 visit, part one? I had to back it up and replay several times to convince myself she indeed is smoking. Am I the only one who never noticed this before? I think it's around 3:40 on the video if you're interested.

It bugs me the audio and picture are out of sync and there are long pauses in the tape, it makes me wonder if parts have been cropped before releasing to the public. :confused: What say you?

Well you peaked my interest and I went back and watched.
Oh my Yes. There's Casey taking a drag on a cigarette. That would explain why the audio and video are out of sync. The video portion showing Casey smoking was deleted but the audio remained intact. You can still see a very quick portion though. Don't blink or you will miss.
Since Florida has a no smoking policy in public/workplaces you can't very well show Casey violating that policy :tonguewag:

Casey putting ciggy to her mouth (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/smokingcasey002.jpg)
Puff of smoke (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/smokingcasey.jpg)

[PuffDragon]

Well you peaked my interest and I went back and watched.
Oh my Yes. There's Casey taking a drag on a cigarette. That would explain why the audio and video are out of sync. The video portion showing Casey smoking was deleted but the audio remained intact. You can still see a very quick portion though. Don't blink or you will miss.
Since Florida has a no smoking policy in public/workplaces you can't very well show Casey violating that policy :tonguewag:

Casey putting ciggy to her mouth (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/smokingcasey002.jpg)
Puff of smoke (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/wegworker/smokingcasey.jpg)

That was awesome ellegna. Nice work! :thumbup: I know n2n will be delighted to see that! I just couldn't see it for sure but isolating it into stills clinches it. She's apparently getting special treatment then, would you say? Do you think they clipped out a few other drags too, the sound really gets even more out of sync as it goes on. She would have had to have gotten the cig from a guard, I would think, 'cause she wasn't ordering them.

[Myka]

I thought it would be good to sort through what is hearsay, fact or fiction. Brainstorming is better than arguing.

I just got started here on this great thread Puff, but I think it's a good idea, I can't wait to read through!!

[Myka]

That was awesome ellegna. Nice work! :thumbup: I know n2n will be delighted to see that! I just couldn't see it for sure but isolating it into stills clinches it. She's apparently getting special treatment then, would you say? Do you think they clipped out a few other drags too, the sound really gets even more out of sync as it goes on. She would have had to have gotten the cig from a guard, I would think, 'cause she wasn't ordering them.

but if she is smoking a ciggy, wouldn't we see smoke for about 3 minutes? It takes between 3 to 5 minutes to smoke a ciggy. As a ciggy sits in an ashtrash, it still produces smoke

[ellegna]

That was awesome ellegna. Nice work! :thumbup: I know n2n will be delighted to see that! I just couldn't see it for sure but isolating it into stills clinches it. She's apparently getting special treatment then, would you say? Do you think they clipped out a few other drags too, the sound really gets even more out of sync as it goes on. She would have had to have gotten the cig from a guard, I would think, 'cause she wasn't ordering them.

My pleasure Puff. I have a sneaky feeling the jail looks the other way as far as smoking goes for guards and inmates. It just so happens Casey is foolish enough to smoke on video. The jail panics and deletes. As far as getting the cig's, I'm guessing Baez is bringing them in.

[PuffDragon]

My pleasure Puff. I have a sneaky feeling the jail looks the other way as far as smoking goes for guards and inmates. It just so happens Casey is foolish enough to smoke on video. The jail panics and deletes. As far as getting the cig's, I'm guessing Baez is bringing them in.

Well, welcome aboard, that was a good way to confirm, it proved it to me although I couldn't say for sure just by watching the video.

I wonder if getting the deletions done was the real reason why it took so long to get that video out and not because it 'got lost in the drawer' or whatever it was,

[PuffDragon]

but if she is smoking a ciggy, wouldn't we see smoke for about 3 minutes? It takes between 3 to 5 minutes to smoke a ciggy. As a ciggy sits in an ashtrash, it still produces smoke

Nice to have you here Myka. We're speculating that anytime smoke appeared on the screen somebody did a little deleting to hide it. If you watch the video you will see that the audio and video are so far out of sync that it hard to watch. Ellegna's theory is that clipping pieces out of the video but not clipping the audio ended up with the sync being off. Makes sense to me.

[need2no]

Holy cow, n2n, gulp, I've got to go get a case, that 1/2 bottle isn't going to be nearly enough for this project!

Mostly what I've noticed is that Casey's conversations are incredibly boring. She really doesn't have anything interesting to say. I can't imagine how Dear Jose can stand to talk to her. Even when it's all about her (and yes, you're perceptive, that's pretty much the only time there's any animation in her at all) it's shallow and boring.

Smoking? Wait....
AARGH! I just went and watched all 21 minutes of that July 30 video. I need more than a bottle after that. Oh that was so horrible. I only saw that one second at about at yes, 3:40, where there was a brief flash of what might have been a quick smoke, I'm not sure. I ran it back a couple of times and it looked like there may have been a cut there. I never saw it again. Of course I suppose a cig could have burned out in the ash tray and she didn't have any more. Maybe somebody else will chime in here on that.
Another thing that was so obvious and that isn't noticeable in print but is unmistakeable in the video is how Casey switches personalities depending on whether she's talking to Cindy or George. It's like turning a switch, she goes back and forth so easily; it was annoying to have the audio so badly out of sync but it was amusing to watch Casey using the wrong personality (listening to her talk to George while the video was showing her talking to Cindy).

Casey 'cries' when she thinks she has to but every once in a while she starts thinking about herself and forgets to cry and then has to restart. Sickening. And how toward the end of the visit Cindy is crying and in such pain and begging for reassurance and Casey acts like the strong one, being supportive reasonable. Where is her own panic and hysteria? Like one of your transcriptions.....in the beginning when they start and Cindy gets George to model the new Caylee shirt Case looks and admires it as if it was just a nice new shirt George got, didn't involve her at all, oh... a picture of an adorable missing child who....oh, yeh, just happens to be hers. Nice shirt, yep, great picture, okay lets talk about me now. barf

The more I see of Casey the more I dislike her. I wonder sometimes how, when they were alone, she actually related to Caylee.

Ok, I'll go copy now. I may have to do it in stages. Typing it is bad enough but being captive to watching and analyzing is extremely painful. "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din". Well okay, I know the gender is wrong but that line is fixed in stone and can't be changed. Give me the morning and then we'll get together on that bench and share a couple.

ITA Puff, casey's words are incredibly boring and empty. I try to take into consideration she knows she is being videoed, is probably a bit uncomfortable around her parents, but still where does she come up with these stupid stories, does she lay on her cot and make this stuff up and think it is interesting or humorous. Probably she just wants to distract from the real convo she fears...details about what happened to Caylee. Did you catch the couple of Oh God's said in a whisper sort of under her breath? I would imagine Baez is so enamored with 'his girl' that it doesn't really bother him too much...she has made him a media superstar in his mind, and will, or already has made him some big bucks. And yes, she does change personalities between G & C, but then remember she said George doesn't ask her tons of questions, just Cindy and Lee.

Her reaction to the t-shirts is astounding, she could barely fake giving a big chit. She couldn't care less, whoop de do a pic of my 'missing' child with a description and contact info, cool...let's move along and talk about me fgs!

[need2no]

Still thinking......

I went back and watched just that one second of the video again and I still can't tell. One clue that might refute it though: we don't see that she has bought any cigarettes during her weekly shopping spree.

I'm not sure about the videos being cropped. Part one ran for just about 21 minutes and part two for about 18. Now I admit to being math-challenged but by my figuring that's about 40 minutes of tape. Didn't we hear at some point that the visits were 45 minutes? I don't know if they start the timer when they go in or when they start talking, but if there is anything missing it can't be very much. I didn't see any noticeably long pauses in the tape except when the display had to catch up with the download a couple of times. I don't have any idea what kind of technology they use to do the recording so I can't think how easy or hard it would be to block something out or if the hesitations are just due to glitches in the recording process itself.

After watching the interaction between Casey and her parents I honestly don't know how they could have lived with her. I wonder if Cindy ever regretted encouraging Casey to keep the baby? Talk about being conflicted, Caylee was obviously precious to her but having to have Casey there too must have made the conflict so much more toxic than it had ever been previously.

I'd sure like to know exactly what Casey meant when she wrote "DRAAAAMA" on her Facebook page.
Hmmmm, do you know if those pages, hers and Cindy's, are still available? They are pretty significant to what was going on in their minds at that time. Maybe I ought to have those posts on here too............

:crying:

This sounds awful but I suspect when Caylee was first born it was a nice distraction from the troubled marriage and casey's antics and drama...something fresh and new to focus on and fuss over, and they were able to temporarily set aside the constant problems to deal with the needs of an infant. They each probably tried to make it seem as if this was the answer to their screwy dysfunctional family...but it was short lived. Cindy had some extra cash due to the house re fi and no doubt enjoyed showering Caylee with everything she needed. casey soon realized what a gold mine Caylee was in terms of controlling Cindy even more than usual. George may have cringed thinking this was looking like a permanent situation, and one he couldn't handle. casey quickly became jealous and within no time Caylee became the rope in the tug of war game. I am soooooo curious why G & C split so soon after Caylee was born.

[need2no]

Okay, n2n, I jumped right into the water and got that new section all done. Whew! We are going to need a 12-point recovery program when this is over!

Nah, I need one NOW! :biggrin:

[need2no]

That was awesome ellegna. Nice work! :thumbup: I know n2n will be delighted to see that! I just couldn't see it for sure but isolating it into stills clinches it. She's apparently getting special treatment then, would you say? Do you think they clipped out a few other drags too, the sound really gets even more out of sync as it goes on. She would have had to have gotten the cig from a guard, I would think, 'cause she wasn't ordering them.

I started not to even mention the ciggy smoking knowing some would think I was crazy, but I couldn't help myself. I watched it several times and had no doubt at that point. I kept wondering if others had observed this and I was the last one to notice it, even though I've been on board since 'day 31' and have never seen anyone mention it. To me it appeared she already had the cig sitting in the ashtray to her left, and just took one puff and put it out, almost as if she thought G & C wouldn't really notice. But then again with the out of sync video it's hard to say what took place.

I was just surprised this was allowed in the viisting room since I've never noted this was allowed in other cases I've followed over the years. Is miss casey getting special privileges? As for where she got it I suppose she could trade some of her goodies for a cig or two. I wonder if smoking is allowed in the rec room since I don't think she is allowed outside, I'll have to do some research on this.

I seem to recall mention of a cig pack found in her car, but assumed it was TonE's, not hers.

Two other observations...moving the screen behind her is too funny...gotta protect the child killer. Also when the guard comes to get her at the end of the visit, he/she is wearing blue medical type gloves, which I found strange.

THANKS to ellegna for posting the pics, I didn't even think to do that!!! :wub:

[PuffDragon]

This sounds awful but I suspect when Caylee was first born it was a nice distraction from the troubled marriage and casey's antics and drama...something fresh and new to focus on and fuss over, and they were able to temporarily set aside the constant problems to deal with the needs of an infant. They each probably tried to make it seem as if this was the answer to their screwy dysfunctional family...but it was short lived. Cindy had some extra cash due to the house re fi and no doubt enjoyed showering Caylee with everything she needed. casey soon realized what a gold mine Caylee was in terms of controlling Cindy even more than usual. George may have cringed thinking this was looking like a permanent situation, and one he couldn't handle. casey quickly became jealous and within no time Caylee became the rope in the tug of war game. I am soooooo curious why G & C split so soon after Caylee was born.

That sounds completely logical and realistic in light of what we know of the family. I also think maybe Cindy thought Caylee was a second chance to 'get it right', probably assuming her poor parenting had been how Casey turned into what she became. I'm not so sure about George, it looks like he really loved the baby, which may have been the one thing that kept him there. I completely agree with you about Caylee being a gold mine, or my version: a meal ticket. I definitely don't believe Casey was jealous though. A sociopath wouldn't understand 'jealous'. But she could have been resentful that Caylee was cute and sweet and getting all the attention, and Casey had to swallow it if the wanted the meal ticket to continue producing. We know that Casey can't keep that fury in, no wonder she would be fighting with Cindy all the time!

[PuffDragon]

ITA Puff, casey's words are incredibly boring and empty. I try to take into consideration she knows she is being videoed, is probably a bit uncomfortable around her parents, but still where does she come up with these stupid stories, does she lay on her cot and make this stuff up and think it is interesting or humorous. Probably she just wants to distract from the real convo she fears...details about what happened to Caylee. Did you catch the couple of Oh God's said in a whisper sort of under her breath? I would imagine Baez is so enamored with 'his girl' that it doesn't really bother him too much...she has made him a media superstar in his mind, and will, or already has made him some big bucks. And yes, she does change personalities between G & C, but then remember she said George doesn't ask her tons of questions, just Cindy and Lee.

Her reaction to the t-shirts is astounding, she could barely fake giving a big chit. She couldn't care less, whoop de do a pic of my 'missing' child with a description and contact info, cool...let's move along and talk about me fgs!

Her personality with Lee is completely different from the other two as well. I suppose it's delusional of me to think that any of them would look at those videos and think, "Gosh, look how different Casey acts with each of us!" :punch: <- me.
Each of them has his own part in the play. George is the one who listens and doesn't judge her, the good guy. Lee is the brother she can tell anything to and he'll believe it because they have such a great relationship ('scuse me..... barfsorry, i hadda do that), and Cindy is the one who makes the rules and keeps Casey from doing what Casey wants to do, and she has the personalities to respond to each. If not for what happened to Caylee it would be no different from the kind of relationship you'd probably see in the hundreds of similarly dysfunctional families that we never hear about. Or care about.

[PuffDragon]

Nah, I need one NOW! :biggrin:

Actually, we need two. One because of the case and one to get us off all the liquid courage we've been using to get us through those transcriptions!

[PuffDragon]

I started not to even mention the ciggy smoking knowing some would think I was crazy, but I couldn't help myself. I watched it several times and had no doubt at that point. I kept wondering if others had observed this and I was the last one to notice it, nope, you're the only one that noticed it, as far as I know, and I've been here since day '31' too....
even though I've been on board since 'day 31' and have never seen anyone mention it. To me it appeared she already had the cig sitting in the ashtray to her left, and just took one puff and put it out, almost as if she thought G & C wouldn't really notice. But then again with the out of sync video it's hard to say what took place.
I wasn't sure, I could see that little puff at 3:40 but it was gone so fast it didn't make sense and I couldn't figure out how she would have a cigarette. Ellegna's pictures clinched it for me, and it makes sense that the out of sync audio is a result of chopping the smoking out of the video.

I was just surprised this was allowed in the viisting room since I've never noted this was allowed in other cases I've followed over the years. Is miss casey getting special privileges? As for where she got it I suppose she could trade some of her goodies for a cig or two. I wonder if smoking is allowed in the rec room since I don't think she is allowed outside, I'll have to do some research on this.
I guess it is special privileges for her, otherwise why bother to expunge the smoking on the video? How could she trade if she's not allowed contact with the other inmates? Would the jailers act as go-betweens? If they were found out wouldn't that be likely to get them fired? i wouldn't trust Casey for a second not to drop on them if she thought it would get her somewhere.

I seem to recall mention of a cig pack found in her car, but assumed it was TonE's, not hers.

Yeh, so did I. We never had any indication she was a smoker, I don't remember even seeing a cigarette in her hand in the party pictures.

Two other observations...moving the screen behind her is too funny...gotta protect the child killer. Also when the guard comes to get her at the end of the visit, he/she is wearing blue medical type gloves, which I found strange.

I wondered if that screen was used for everyone or just Casey? You think they were shielding her? I didn't catch that about the guard and the gloves. I don't know if I really want to look at any of it again just to see, though.
THANKS to ellegna for posting the pics, I didn't even think to do that!!! :wub:


I'm going to add the smoking to the list. Do I dare put it in 'Facts'? It's not 'Hearsay' (we can see it clearly in ellegna's pics) and it's not 'Lies'.

[Myka]

Nice to have you here Myka. We're speculating that anytime smoke appeared on the screen somebody did a little deleting to hide it. If you watch the video you will see that the audio and video are so far out of sync that it hard to watch. Ellegna's theory is that clipping pieces out of the video but not clipping the audio ended up with the sync being off. Makes sense to me.

thanks Puff, just got back from getting munchies for the Daytona 500............

right, I know the video is out of sync, it drove me crazy.......so we know she smoked weed, but she wasn't a regular ciggy smoker right? I bet she smoked when she was out drinking though.

[need2no]

Originally Posted by PuffDragon MY RESPONSES IN RED.

Actually, we need two. One because of the case and one to get us off all the liquid courage we've been using to get us through those transcriptions! Boy you got that right!

I guess it is special privileges for her, otherwise why bother to expunge the smoking on the video? How could she trade if she's not allowed contact with the other inmates? Would the jailers act as go-betweens? If they were found out wouldn't that be likely to get them fired? i wouldn't trust Casey for a second not to drop on them if she thought it would get her somewhere. Sure seems that way to me. Wonder how many other privleges she is getting, and WHY? Those guards are not paid very well, and that combined with casey's charm >PUKE<, could possibly entice them to give her a ciggy or 2 in exchange for a candy bar, or maybe Baez sneaks them to her with the letters he sneaks in! :mad: And yes, I would think that would be grounds for firing if they were caught.

Yeh, so did I. We never had any indication she was a smoker, I don't remember even seeing a cigarette in her hand in the party pictures. All I recall is the cigar :biggrin:

I wondered if that screen was used for everyone or just Casey? You think they were shielding her? I didn't catch that about the guard and the gloves. I don't know if I really want to look at any of it again just to see, though. I don't know, but what would be the purpose for using it for EVERY inmate for every visit? Do they have lots of screens tucked away for use? Does the jail give a ripping hoot about an inmates privacy...I doubt it, so it just seems it would be used for the protected inmates. Don't blame you for not wanting to take another look see of the video, but if you do it is at the very end.

I'm going to add the smoking to the list. Do I dare put it in 'Facts'? It's not 'Hearsay' (we can see it clearly in ellegna's pics) and it's not 'Lies'.
Since we've seen it with our own eyes it isn't hearsay, or a lie, IMO.


Plan to get some liquid courage and return to the depths of Hades again tonight...... wish me luck!

[3girls]

I took a class with our local sheriff's dept. (Florida) Smoking was banned in our jail.
On January 1, 2000, smoking is banned in Florida prisons for all but Death Row inmates. This was passed by Gov. Bush

[PuffDragon]

<respectfully snipped for space>

Plan to get some liquid courage and return to the depths of Hades again tonight...... wish me luck!

I will be there with you in spirit. (We need a cocktail glass smilie!)

[PuffDragon]

thanks Puff, just got back from getting munchies for the Daytona 500............

right, I know the video is out of sync, it drove me crazy.......so we know she smoked weed, but she wasn't a regular ciggy smoker right? I bet she smoked when she was out drinking though.

*Bolding mine

There's no way of knowing, we hadn't seen any evidence of it before n2n brought up this observation. I was very surprised.

[PuffDragon]

I took a class with our local sheriff's dept. (Florida) Smoking was banned in our jail.
On January 1, 2000, smoking is banned in Florida prisons for all but Death Row inmates. This was passed by Gov. Bush

Thanks for that, 3girls. So Casey was not only definitely getting preferential treatment but the officials at the jail noticed it in the video and expunged it so nobody would see. Hmmmmmmm.............
Now it's absolutely going in the list!!!

[ellegna]

Thanks for that, 3girls. So Casey was not only definitely getting preferential treatment but the officials at the jail noticed it in the video and expunged it so nobody would see. Hmmmmmmm.............
Now it's absolutely going in the list!!!

I don't believe Casey was getting preferential treatment. I bet you dollars to donuts there were other inmates and guards who broke the no smoking rules and smoked in the building too.

Do you honestly believe if Casey was allowed to smoke and the other inmates couldn't they'd keep quiet? Not a chance

[PuffDragon]

I don't believe Casey was getting preferential treatment. I bet you dollars to donuts there were other inmates and guards who broke the no smoking rules and smoked in the building too.

Do you honestly believe if Casey was allowed to smoke and the other inmates couldn't they'd keep quiet? Not a chance

Good point. So probably all of them were getting around the law but when the officials saw the tape and realized it was going to be made public they decided they'd better do some preemptive scrubbing. I wonder if that particular jail is still allowing smoking now.............

[PuffDragon]

Hey Puff,

Lots of work on this thread by you and n2n. Whew!

I may have missed it, but did you include Jesse's and TonE's statements to LE that they were told by Casey that Lee tried something with her when she was in middle school, and that George "abused" her?

That would go under hearsay, right?

I had to go back and check because I can't remember any more what in the lists. No, you are very right, nothing about the allegations, and they should definitely be in "hearsay'.. Thanks say.

[need2no]

You can look in Charlotte, I know Zannys have roots in North Carolina. Definitely Miami and New York.
No, her mother is Gloria.
Um, she’s between your age and dad’s age, so she’s about fif....roughly yes.
I don’t know where exactly they are in Miami or who they are staying with, but it’s a possibility.

I look like hell.

I haven’t been crying while I’ve been in here, I’ve been trying to read books and do other things to keep my mind off of stuff.

Dad that’s my only concern. I gave Lee a statement I want him to speak to whoever in the media and give them a statement specifically from me. He’s gonna give them an exact quote. She’s my only concern, next to Caylee is you guys, my only concern.

It’s been local, it’s all been local.
The last time I was in Jacksonville was in March, I haven’t left the city.
I’m sorry, I remember going to Cocoa Beach one time back in maybe May.

I know everyone’s looking. I have updates from Jose or from an occasional officer in here will give me just a little bit of the media that they’ve stomached watching.

I’m staying away from the TV’s, they don’t even the TV on in here for news purposes, I haven’t seen the paper or anything like that.

She needs to return Caylee. I forgive her, my only concern is that Caylee comes back to us and she is smiling and she’s happy and that she’s, that she’s okay. Mommie loves her very much and that she’s the most important thing in this entire world to me, and to be brave.

Just that I love her. I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much.

God and I miss you guys.

I know Lee’s priority list we went through things and I know Caylee’s at the top of everybody’s priority list, I’m the last on mine right now.

I’ll sit here as long as I have to, I don’t care.

Lee and I’ve made an agreement, I’m going to start writing letters, I’m going to do it today and I’m going to write individual letters to each of you and send them through the mail, through the jail mail.

I’m protecting our family yes, not from anything that I’ve done.

Mom just leave it at that please, for right now just leave it at that.

That’s all that I’m worried about. (Caylee)

Mom because this is recorded and I don’t know who’s gonna see things and who’s gonna misconstrue whatever else like I said there’s things that I directly need to say to each of you… that Lee and I are finding other means to do, so….

I don’t know mom, possibly, I told you a long time ago she had a key.

Oh God I was going to ask you something too and I don’t remember.


Just try to keep talking to the media I guess, keep things positive, keep it focused on Caylee, that needs to be the main focus.

Just that I wish none of this would have ever happened, I really wish that none of this would have ever happened.

Yeah but in some ways I almost feel more protected here than if I were on the outside.

As long as we have Caylee home everything else with me we’ll deal with as we can. Lee made a good point, getting Caylee home is our priority everything else will fall into place after that, and it’s the truth.

[need2no]

But I’m under protective custody. I’m in my own cell, I’m right across I mean I’m literally within four steps from where their little station is in here. So I’m being watched at all times.

The few times that I have dad, you’ve seen what’s blown up in my face. They’ve misconstrued things that I said to them, resources that I gave them they haven’t used. So in all honesty as much as I’d like to at the moment if I’m going to it won’t be in person conversation it won’t be over the phone conversation it will be in writing so there’s no way of twisting my words or saying that I didn’t give them information.

No, there needs to be money put I guess in an account for me so I can make calls, they have to be collect calls.
No I understand that but I’m saying I think there still has to be money in an account for me to be able to make any calls from what I’ve been told.
Tell mom to keep breathing.
As far as I know yes, you’ll have to ask somebody more information on that.


Tell Amy that I’m sorry.

Um… tell Ryan I appreciate all of his help. If you could ask him to come if he gets a chance to come in town. I don’t know if he’s going to be able to.

Um, I mean just tell the rest of the family ……..

What the hell is there to say to him. I mean it took a friend of mine that I haven’t seen in at least 4 years haven’t talked to in maybe longer than that. Someone from high school to come and see me and he hasn’t made any effort, won’t talk to Jose you know when I sent even a specific note. I mean I would like to reach out to talk to him but at the same time my concern is you guys. (this was in reference to TonE)

I would like Jesse to stay as far away from you guys as possible. I’m saying that whole heartedly and as calmly as possible. I don’t know how much I trust him right now, and I even told Lee that. Lee is going to investigate a few people for me.

I, I, in my gut I don’t know if I can trust him.
Jose and I had a couple of conversations about that. We’ve talked about that multiple different times actually.

To the best of my knowledge no, but quite possibly. (in regard to question does Jesse know Zanny)

No, the last time he watched Caylee was at his parents house when she was a baby, so that was 2006.

Um I appreciate that, I mean coming from his family yes that means a lot. As far as Jesse as an individual it’s very questionable for me. Very, very questionable.

Things from his parents that I can…..honestly say I appreciate……

I don’t know, I haven’t seen it for a long time. (re: Tiffany little heart ring Jeff gave her)

Lee actually has more information on stuff like that. He said that he knows information about him, about Juliette, and other people.

Puff I felt deja vu while working on this tonight, they say the same meaningless junk over and over....how's grandma, keep your spirits up, tell dad to take deep breaths, tell mom to take deep breaths, is there anything I can do for you to make you feel like you are helping, is there anyone you want me to give a message to, I miss you guys, what else would you like for us to do, Lee said this, I told Lee that, Lee is working on it, blah, blah, blah. (Where's the screaming smilie?) Oh, and the way they pass that d*mn phone back and forth gives me a pain in my neck! Excuse me but I think I need to go comfort myself... um, I feel so misconstrued right now. :lol:

[PuffDragon]

Jeeze, n2n!!! You probably need to soak in a jacuzzi for a while after that!

This is kind of funny: I got through slogging through your first post (if it weren't 4:20 ayem I would be grabbing my bottle, I swear) and went on to the second. i guess the back of my mind was remembering that in your last pair of messages the second page was your comments. So for a second or two I assumed you were going on to comment on the first page. Here's the first thing I read:
>>>But I’m under protective custody. I’m in my own cell,<<<
and I thought, "Oh no!, you've gone over the edge working on these things!!!"

I'm not doing anything to repost what you've written all in one list, I don't think there's any need right now. Anybody who's reading it can make as much sense of them the way they are now as they would in one list, which I'd have to break up anyway. Possibly what we should do is once we've found everything relevant (next year?) I can take my whole collection of data and post it in a 'no discussions' title just for reference. Or I suppose I could blog it and link. I'll think about that later, there's no rush, I suspect we're going to be at this for a while.

You probably noticed that Saywhat04 is suggesting including the police calls going back to 2003. I'm not sure about that, is it relevant enough, what do you think?

[PuffDragon]

Here's one for the Facts list, Puff:

"Calls for Service" to LE from The House of Anthony in the 5 years leading up to Caylee's disappearance:

2003 - call type "CM"
2004 - call type "Rescue"
2005 - two calls on 4/21, both call type "Verbal"
2005 - call on 4/30, call type "Disturbance"
2005 - call in May, call type "Disturbance"
2006 - call type "STOVEH" (stolen vehicle)

And here's one for the Hearsay list:

Casey may have a sealed juvenile record

Definitely I'll take the juvenile record Say, but I'm not sure about the old police calls. Why do you think they're important?

[PuffDragon]

You can look in Charlotte, I know Zannys have roots in North Carolina. Definitely Miami and New York.

<snipped for space>



Okay, this page is in. I feel the need for a break and a strong cup of tea before I attack page 2. I get the sense that you are moving backwards. I can't wait until you get to the first video right after Casey was arrested. :crying: It will probably take more than a glass of wine to get through that one. Some mind-numbing drugs will be needed I think!

Oh wait, my mind is already numb from entering all these.....

Let me ask you this: when you are typing this stuff in, do you find yourself responding to each line? In other words, are you yelling, "Who are you kidding?? What you are doing is protecting yourself from having your family find out what you've done!!!" when she says: I’m protecting our family yes, not from anything that I’ve done. I can't type a single sentence without answering it. She says I look like hell and I retort, "Yes dearie, and it's only going to get worse."

Hmmm, makes me think that would be a very interesting exercise. Every day post a single statement and see how people would answer it............

[PuffDragon]

<snipped because I can't stand to read it again>

Puff I felt deja vu while working on this tonight, they say the same meaningless junk over and over....how's grandma, keep your spirits up, tell dad to take deep breaths, tell mom to take deep breaths, is there anything I can do for you to make you feel like you are helping, is there anyone you want me to give a message to, I miss you guys, what else would you like for us to do, Lee said this, I told Lee that, Lee is working on it, blah, blah, blah. (Where's the screaming smilie?) Oh, and the way they pass that d*mn phone back and forth gives me a pain in my neck! Excuse me but I think I need to go comfort myself... um, I feel so misconstrued right now. :lol:

I hear you loud and clear n2n. Totally shallow, talking like casual acquaintances rather than members of a grieving and bewildered family. you're feeling misconstrued even though you're writing all this down? Huh, I thought that was the answer to being misconstrued..........:rolleyes:

What I'm finding particularly interesting is how I'm seeing a lot of this stuff in a different light now that we know so much more. I keep hearing Dear Jose almost verbatim in a lot of her answers. The way that she refers to "that little girl" (I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much), can't you just see him patting her hand and saying, "Of course you miss her, we all know that you truly love that little girl", and "keep things positive, keep it focused on Caylee, that needs to be our main focus" sounds more like an avuncular lawyer as he leaves the meeting with his client than it does the conversation a missing child's mother would have with her parents.

Interesting also was the way she kept talking about not trusting people. I'm thinking Dear Jose would have impressed on her not to let anyone talk to Jesse or any of her other friends because they couldn't be trusted not to take to the media. So she picked up on the idea and enlarged on it to make it sound like she didn't trust them because they might be guilty of something, knowing her parents would swallow the idea completely.

I really loved that piece with her trying to get money out of her parents for her commissary account. She apparently didn't know how far she could push, would they balk at giving her more cash (money long since being an issue between them) when she had been "a bad daughter"? She believes she's in jail for timeout, remember. So instead she tries to make it seem that there will be no phone calls for them unless she has some money in there. She acts confused about the details. I'm sure she was not in the least confused, she just didn't want to come right out and ask for money so she could go on indulging herself in case they actually said 'no', did she think that her father, former LE, wouldn't know how the phone call issue worked or why she would want money in her commissary account? :unsure:

That's all done now. Ummm.... it's okay if you take your time before submitting the next one. I'm going to go read something soothing...... like President Lincoln's war report...........

[PuffDragon]

ADDITIONS TO THE FACTS LIST:

65) The stain in the trunk tested positive for human decomposition
66) There was a search for weapons on the home computer
67) Cindy was at work when the searches for chloroform and weapons was made.
68) Casey went to Fusian on the night of June 13th, verified by pictures.
69) Afternoon of June 16,Casey made a flurry of calls to George, Cindy, TonE, Jesse, home, and Amy.
70) June 24, Casey makes phone call to Jesse when he is driving to the police station to submit his resignation.
71) Mid-afternoon June 24, Casey messages Troy about not living in the house for the last 9 days.
72) June 28, early-afternoon Casey posts about getting drunk the night before and threatening to kill someone.
73) June 30, TonE leaves for New York
74) Clint moved out of TonE's apartment
75) July 2, report of Caylee sighting at Orlando Airport. LE investigated the tip and proved it to be unfounded.
76) July 2, Amy, JP, and Ricardo fly to Puerto Rico. Amy lets Casey use her car.
77) Casey texts Jesse to warn him not to answer any calls from Cindy or George.
78) July 4, Amy and Casey staying at JP's, they go to a Fourth of July party.
79) July 7, Casey writes the message titled "Diary of Days" on her MySpace page. "Everyone lies, Everyone dies".

[PuffDragon]

ADDITIONS TO THE HEARSAY LIST:

51) George saw Casey driving in Cindy's car and chased her.
52) According to Jeff's father, the family did know the Anthony family and were asked by them not to talk.
53) At the house on the 24th Casey tried to keep George from going near the trunk.
54) Casey was not fazed when the bones were found in the river.
55) There were allegations made by Casey to TonE and Jesse about inappropriate sexual behavior by Lee and abuse by George
56) Casey has a juvenile record. If true it would be sealed.
57) 6/02/08, at his apartment's pool, the last time TonE sees Caylee.
58) May 30, the first time Casey spent the night at TonE's.
59) June 4, per Casey's message to Amy, it's a week before they are going to become roommates.
60) June 10, the last day Ricardo saw Caylee
61) June 10, Caylee seen by the girlfriend of Clint, TonE's roommate, at TonE's apartment
62) June 9, Casey, Amy, and Ricardo spent the night at J.P. Chatt's place when TonE was out of town.
63) June 12 or 13, Kristina and her children took a walk in the park with Casey and Caylee.
64) Caylee never spent a whole night at TonE's
65) Casey and Clint played with Caylee on June 13th at TonE's. Casey left with Caylee and returned later without her.
66) After visiting Cindy's father in ALC June 15, Cindy & Caylee returned home and were later joined by Casey for a swim in the pool.
67) Sometime during the week of July 26 Casey asked Jesse if she could take a shower at his house.
68) June 24, Jesse thinks he hears Casey in the room during Casey's phone call, later is not so sure.
69) Casey could not afford to make the trip to Puerto Rico with her friends.

[ellegna]

I may have missed but do you have the conversation Casey had with Amy that she got rid of the smell?

[Cury-us Coyote]

ADDITIONS TO THE FACTS LIST:

65) The stain in the trunk tested positive for human decomposition

Respectfully snipped for focus. You're doing a great job, IMO.


IMO, the stain is still hearsay unless an accredited lab releases the results. AFAIK, the document drops do NOT report upon the chemical make-up of that stain. At best, news articles list unnamed title-less sources.
jmo

[PuffDragon]

I may have missed but do you have the conversation Casey had with Amy that she got rid of the smell?

I have the item about the squirrels crawling into the motor in the "Lies" list but not the conversation with Amy about getting rid of it. That was important, I should have it. Was that a text message? If so I can put it into "Lies", otherwise I guess it would be Hearsay that Casey said it. I seem to remember that it was a text though. Or I could just add it to "Caseyspeak". Or both..........

[ellegna]

I have the item about the squirrels crawling into the motor in the "Lies" list but not the conversation with Amy about getting rid of it. That was important, I should have it. Was that a text message? If so I can put it into "Lies", otherwise I guess it would be Hearsay that Casey said it. I seem to remember that it was a text though. Or I could just add it to "Caseyspeak". Or both..........

Amy mentions a phone conversation in her Police transcripts (pg 15 on)
Casey tells her about a bad smell and it's getting worse. Then Casey texts Amy that the smell is gone

[PuffDragon]

Amy mentions a phone conversation in her Police transcripts (pg 15 on)
Casey tells her about a bad smell and it's getting worse. Then Casey texts Amy that the smell is gone

Okay ellegna, thanks. Hearsay for Casey telling her about the bad smell and Fact that Casey told her she'd gotten rid of it then? Or is the fact about it being gone proof that the hearsay can be promoted to Fact? :crying:

[PuffDragon]

IMO, the stain is still hearsay unless an accredited lab releases the results. AFAIK, the document drops do NOT report upon the chemical make-up of that stain. At best, news articles list unnamed title-less sources.
jmo

You're sure, Cury? I thought the tests came back with proof that a body decomposing for about two and a half days had been in the trunk?
I wasn't going by unnamed sources, I thought we saw the results of the tests. No? Or am I thinking of the air sample tests?

[Cury-us Coyote]

You're sure, Cury? I thought the tests came back with proof that a body decomposing for about two and a half days had been in the trunk?
I wasn't going by unnamed sources, I thought we saw the results of the tests. No? Or am I thinking of the air sample tests?

IMO, two of the tests (air samples & laser induced breakdown spectromscopy LIBS) performed at Oak Ridge lab may be cutting edge technology. LIBS testing resulted in the 2.6 days calculation described in the intial report as "crude fashion", interesting, and "potentially" point to human origin. IMO, valuable investigative information. AFAIK, FDLE and/or Quantico FBI reports of the source of the stain, DNA contents, etc were not made public yet.
jmo

ETA - cutting-edge technology in the world of forensics, but a track record in manufacturing and other venues

[PuffDragon]

IMO, two of the tests (air samples & laser induced breakdown spectromscopy LIBS) performed at Oak Ridge lab may be cutting edge technology. LIBS testing resulted in the 2.6 days calculation described in the intial report as "crude fashion", interesting, and "potentially" point to human origin. IMO, valuable investigative information. AFAIK, FDLE and/or Quantico FBI reports of the source of the stain, DNA contents, etc were not made public yet.
jmo

ETA - cutting-edge technology in the world of forensics, but a track record in manufacturing and other venues

*Bolding mine

Yeh, I remember that, everything you're quoting is from the original doc dump forensic testing reports. Air sample tests but not tests on the physical stain as I remember. So that's what the two and a half days came from, the air sample tests? Nothing released from the labs after that? I went and looked, all the references headlines both the stain and the air results, but reported only the results of the air tests at the Body Farm. Trouble is, they are all from last Fall, nothing newer that I could see. In that case I will demote the stain results line to "Hearsay". If anybody can find results of more recent tests that address the decomp I will reconsider.

[need2no]

[QUOTE=PuffDragon;12790397]

~snipped for bandwidth~

You know Puff one of the most difficult things for me to do while transcribing was to not attach my personal comments to each and everything casey said in those jail viists. She evokes strong emotions.. I wanted so badly to reach out and touch her... though I'll admit to cussing her and commenting outloud quite often as I listened.

How could her parents be so gullible, surely they can't be this stupid? Do they need to play along to get info, or they are scared she will share some family secret, or admit THEIR involvement, are they scared she will explode and the real casey will be showcased for all to see? The passing of the phone...is this how they handled casey at home. Go ask your dad what he thinks, go ask your mom what she thinks, or... dad is being a p*ick mom, but I know you'll understand, Mom's being a b*tch dad, but I know you'll understand..play one against the other as necessary. It was amazing the way Cindy would abruptly cut off the convo between George and casey whenever she had some little thought pass through her mind and just had to share immediately....obviously certain whatever she had to say was far more important than their convo.

It is hard to believe C & G are conversing with an adult, not a pre-teen, it is equally hard to make any sense of casey's scrambled speech.

casey even using the words trust and honestly is ludicrous, she wouldn't know either if it smacked her squarely in the jaw. But then again C & G seem to use those words often as well, and they don't fit them any better than they fit casey.

Yes, I think Baez is feeding her and she's enjoying his help...gotta tell mom and dad and the world SOMETHING and this should do the trick, point the finger at any and everybody as long as it's away from me. Heck Jesse is an easy mark..mom and dad don't like him anyway. I do recall Lenny saying Baez had possession of a very loving card Jesse had written to Caylee on her birthday and sent it through casey. Baez implied to Lenny that Jesse loved Caylee so much he had a motive to steal her from casey. :rolleyes: Baez wants this case to go to trial, obviously for his own self serving reasons, and to win it would just be an additional bonus for him. Again, how could Cindy be so gullible about Jesse unless she clings to casey's every word, and WHY would she cling to her every word knowing what a liar she has proven to be time and again. Was this all said for the benefit of LE and the public who the A's knew would be listening and watching? Was Baez the director of the shows?

The convo about the $ for the collect calls was too funny, yep casey was testing the waters...I actually think George had her number on this one, (finally), and though he didn't argue or disagree with her (of course not), he was frustrated and passed the phone to Cindy, voluntarily. LOL


Lincoln's war report, ROFL...might just be more soothing on the eyes than casey's garble.

Here's some things I don't think you have on the list yet:

Jesse Ortiz who died in a car accident was rumored to be Caylee’s daddy (hearsay)

Iron on letters were found with Caylee.

Cindy used a noise maker device to ward off the media, on one occasion.

Cindy and Caylee went swimming on the night of the 15th, the ladder was put away.

Cindy: “Casey always told me the truth when she lied.”

Casey had a shamrock decal on the back windshield of her car. (fact)

"Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! I'm sick of this," he said.
"If you don't want to be knocked down, get out of my way," George added. (fact)

Cindy: “I never met Zaneida, but I heard about her for 2 years.”

Cindy claimed the certified letter notice from the Tow Yard taped to their front door went unnoticed for a couple of days.

Casey baked brownies and took them to Jose. (hearsay?)

Casey doesn’t know what happened to her Tiffany ring with the heart on it. (hearsay)

George attacked casey the first day she was home from jail, wanting to know where Caylee is. (hearsay)

Casey took Caylee on the Jaws ride at Universal, and Caylee was very frightened and tried to climb in casey's lap. (hearsay)

The book Caylee was reading at the nursing home was "Suppertime for Freida Fuzzypaws” by Cyndy Szekeres (fact)

Neither Cindy, George or Lee ever made a public plea to the alleged kidnappers to return Caylee. (fact)

Someone hacked into Cindy’s email account and sent out messages and documents containing sensitive information. (hearsay)

Cindy wrote: "The next time you say Caylee is dead I will personally come there and kick your sorry a** all the way to hell."


Jose Baez wanted a judge to approve a request that would allow casey’s attorneys to take their client to places “of interest” so she could help look for her missing daughter.

George and Cindy were out of town over the Thanksgiving weekend. (hearsay)

According to Jesse (LE interview) casey came over to his apartment on July 1st to take a shower. ****** suggested correction to # 67 on your hearsay list******

[PuffDragon]

Wow, n2n, those are good, some of them I never even knew (Cindy and the noise-maker for one)!!! And a lot that I had forgotten and wasn't reminded when I was looking through the links. Nice to be adding something different for a change.

Thanks, I'll change that shower date to the 1st, my reference only said that week.

Honestly, I don't think George and Cindy were talking with a camera awareness. I mean, I suppose they knew the camera was there but I don't think they are capable of changing a lifetime of conversational patterns for a couple of visits. Maybe slightly more stiff under the circumstances, but the basic back and forth being the same. You make a good point about Casey playing one against the other, it was probably done all the time assuming George would dare to go against something that Cindy had already said no to.
They are just all so boring I can hardly stand it. For all the 'reaching out' to each other they did, they sure didn't do any communicating.

Speaking of communicating: are there videos we haven't seen of Casey and Lee together? Because I sure don't remember all those things being discussed that Casey said they discussed. Are we still missing some?

I'll start adding your list, it will be a nice change from transporting Casey's pearls of wisdom into my document. First a slug or two of Nyquil, I've suddenly come down with a whopper of a head cold! Ahhh-Choo!

[PuffDragon]

The earlier calls go to "family dynamics," imo, which many of us agree contributed to what ultimately happened to Caylee. They are actual proof, imo, of the stark contrast between how the A's try to portray their family's image, and the reality of the situation. Normal, well-adjusted, well-functioning families don't typically call LE to their home with any regularity.

And just like the purported juvenile record, it's possible some or all of those earlier calls involved Casey and her escalating bad/illegal behavior.

Okay, that's a valid argument. The calls go in.

[PuffDragon]

Being as how the Haleigh and Caylee boards are a little slow to wind up this morning I took the time to try to track down why the line number in my database didn't match up with the line number on my posted "Facts" list. I finally figured out that I skipped entering this line, which should have been #36 but now is..... ummmm..... #80. There's no easy way to fix it, I'm sticking it in here and it will get renumbered when I post the final list. Just be aware that it will become #36 in the end product:

80) - Banded - indicating it was postmortem - hair shaft found in Casey's truck most likely belonged to Caylee

As long as I'm here, I might as well add the later entries to "Facts":

81) Casey told Amy that she had found the source of the bad smell in the car and gotten rid of it.
82) Iron-on letters were found with Caylee
83) Cindy used a noisemaker device to ward off the media on one occasion
84) Casey had a shamrock decal on the back windshield of her car.
85) Per Cindy, the PO notice about the certified letter from the tow yard went unnoticed for a couple of days
(Don't go after me for this one. I'm not saying the fact is that they didn't notice it for a couple of days, I'm saying that the fact is that Cindy said it.)
86) The book Caylee was reading at the ALC was: "Suppertime for Freida Fuzzypaws by Cyndy Szekeres.
87) Neither Cindy, George nor Lee ever made a public plea to the alleged kidnappers for Caylee's return.
88) Baez wanted a judge to approve a request for Casey & attorneys to visit "places of interest" to look for Caylee while on bail.
89) Calls for Service to LE: '03-"CM"; '04-"Rescue"; -05-(2) "Verbal"; (2) "Disturbance"; '06-"STOVEH".
90) Casey got a clover tattoo in 2007.

[PuffDragon]

Here's the last of what's in my database, I had started on the new docs when I realized I still had unposted items. I was getting confused about dates so I included them on the last items:

90) Mallory was studying to be an event planner.
91) November '04. Casey becomes pregnant
92) Casey's work at Universal, 6/24/04 to 11/26/05
93) 2005, Casey tells Jesse she is pregnant and he is the daddy.
94) Caylee is born 8/9/2005
95) Caylee's babysitters for 1st 2 years: Jesse & his parents, Lauren, The gps, and Christina
96) Jesse and Casey get engaged in December of '05 but break up the following May.
97) June '07: Casey meets new friends Ricardo and Amy at Lauren's party
98) 8/07 Ricardo moved from Jacksonville to Orlando
99) 11/07, Jesse and Casey resume dating for a short period.
100) Casey and Amy became steady friends around February '08
101) Casey and Ricardo start dating, Casey sleeps over, often with Caylee, who likes to play with his drums.
102) 3/19/08, Casey's 22nd b-day. Receives check from gmom Shirley.
103) Casey steals gfather's check on his ALC account.
104) Mid April '08, Casey and Ricardo stop dating.
105) End of April, Casey meets TonE Lazarro on line
106) 5/24/08. Case and TonE meet for the first time at a party at Chris Kokkinos's, TonE was the DJ.
107) End of May, TonE working at Arden Villas. Jesse lived there, Casey went to get him and introduced the two men.
108) 6/7/08, after Amy's car accident, Casey wrote on Facebook "I'm so glad you're OK."
108) June 9, Casey on MySpace writes about TonE wanting to find a R&B artist.
109) June 12, Casey texts Jeff Hopkins and others, drumming up attendance for an event at Fusion
110) Roy House, TonE's roommate, saw Caylee at Fusion. Veried by others who were there.
111) Mid-morning of June 20, Casey texting, drumming up business for Fusion
112) Afternoon of June 20, Casey texting, drumming up business for Fusion
113) Evening of June 20, Casey photographed partying at Fusion
114) June 21, Casey posts on MySpace: "Good times last night!
115) June 21, Casey runs into Jeff Hopkins for the first time since High School
116) June 22, Casey posts on Facebook, "Wow what a night. Seriously I'm never living that one down.
117) June 23, Casey texts to Lee: "Is 'the windy city' an appropriate nickname for Chicago?
118) June 24, Amy to Troy on facebook wrote she was still at Ricardo's and mentions her mail going to Oviedo house
119) June 25, Casey drumming up business for Fusion
120) July 2, Casey to Troy on Facebook, "You taking a cab tonight?" Looking for a ride?
121) July 8, Casey writes the first check on Amy's checking account
122) August 8, Casey is arrested for stealing Amy's money
123) July 15, Casey writes the last check on Amy's account and then picks her up at the airport.
124) July 15, Casey on Facebook to Amy: "I better not see you online. Life is on hold until tomorrow."
125) July 15, Cindy and Casey go on My Space to 'get the word out' to all Casey's friends.
126) July 15, Amy on Facebook, posts to a friend about Casey's betrayal, thievery, and says she's worried about Caylee.
127) July 16, just after midnight, Jeff Hawkins called Jesse to tell him about the situation.
128) Evening, July 16, Zenaida Gonzales was Googled on the home computer.
129) Morning, July 16, a mass email to everyone in Casey's address book and a post on MySpace
130) July 24, Casey's jail visit from Patrick Bougeois, someone from high school who Casey had trouble remembering.
131) August 6&7, LE removes Casey and Caylee's clothing from the Anthony home
132) August 8, Casey refuses visit from Lee
133) August 22, Tony Rusciano was fired from the police dept for lying about his relationship with Casey
134) August 20, Subpeonas issued to George, Cindy, Lee, and Brian Burner for November's trial hearing.
135) August 21. bounty hunter Leonard Padilla bonds Casey out for $50,000
136) August 30, Casey arrested for theft of Amy's checks. LP withdrew the previously posted bond.
137) 9/5, Casey bonded out again by an 'unnamed benefactor' in Tennessee.
138) 9/15, Casey rearrested on additional theft charges
139) 9/16, Casey bonded out again
140) LE recovers emails from end of July between Casey and Mark Hawkins:@ http://anthonyrusciano.com/
141) DNA proves Lee is excluded as being Caylee's father
142) Duct tape on skull matches duct tape on gas can taken from the Anthony house.
143) Pieces of what appear to be pullups found in the bag with the remains
144) A pullup diaper found with the remains is consistent with those taken from the Anthony home.
145) Remains were in two black trash bags which were in a white canvas laundry bag.
146) Sheets of heart stickers were recovered from Casey's dresser.

--------------------------------------------------------

I think I lost something here but I can't figure out what it is. Somehow I managed to close my connection in the middle of this post and had to start all over again. I'm not taking the time to go through item by item because I want to get onto the new stuff before we get another dump. Anything you see that ought to be added please let me know.

[PuffDragon]

HERE ARE ADDITIONS TO "HEARSAY"

70) Casey complained to Amy about the terrible smell in the car.
71) The stain in the trunk tested positive for human decomposition
72) LE knows who Caylee's daddy is.
73) Jesse Ortiz who died in a car accident said to be Caylee's daddy.
74) After Cindy and Caylee went swimming on the night of the 15th the ladder was put away
75) Casey took Caylee on the Jaws ride at Universal and Caylee was terrified.
76) Casey baked brownies and took them to Baez's office when she was out on bail.
77) Casey doesn't know what happened to her Tiffany ring with the heart on it.
77) Someone hacked into Cindy's email account and sent out messages and documents containing sensitive information.
78) George and Cindy were out of town over the Thanksgiving weekend.
79) 11/7, the first time Jesse heard about Zanny the nanny
80) January thru May '08, Ryan Pasley, childhood friend, saw Casey nearly every day
81) Ryan remembers if Caylee wasn't there Casey said she was with her parents or Christina
82) 5/31/08, Casey and Caylee staying with TonE, Cindy called and told Casey to come home.
83) 6/5/08, Cindy's birthday. The last time Lee saw Caylee. Casey was not at home for the birthday.
84) June 9, Casey and Caylee at Ricardo's for the last time.
85) Casey stayed with TonE from the ninth to the 16th without Caylee, Casey saying she was at home or with the nanny.
86) June 12, per George, Caylee was seen by friends in a shopping area wearing a pink & blue outfit and white sunglasses.
87) Casey,in her correspondence with Mark Hawkins, a marine stationed in So CA, hints about something to do with Caylee
88) June 20, Tony goes with Casey to Anthony home to get gas cans
89) June 22, George is sure he locked the shed.
90) Around June 23, Cindy calls Ryan Pasley to warn him of Casey's behavior and calls her a sociopath
91) June 24, Cindy calls Casey demanding the car and Caylee be brought home.
92) Around July 5 Casey tells Ryan Pasley that she has been doing drugs, smoking pot.

[PuffDragon]

I ONLY HAVE TWO NEW ENTRIES FOR "LIES". Most of the items that would have been going into this list are going into the Antspeak and Caseyisms lists now.

21) 12/04, Casey first meets ZFG through Jeff Hopkins
22) June 8 thru 14, Casey went on mini-vacation with Jeff Hopkins

[PuffDragon]

HERE WE GO WITH THE "FACTS" FROM THE LAST DOC DUMP:

147) Remains were in two black trash bags which were in a white canvas laundry bag.
148) Sheets of heart stickers were recovered from Casey's dresser.
149) Caylee's remains were discovered on December 11
150) Contents of canvas bag: #1: two black trash bags with yellow handles
151) Contents of canvas bag #2: One stained Winnie the Pooh blanket
152) Contents of canvas bag #3: One size "24 mos" pair of Cinco brand shorts, w/pink & white vertical stripes
153) Contents of canvas bag #4: collar of size "3T" shirt, possibly pink in color with letters for "Big" "trouble" "comes" "small"
154) Contents of canvas bag #5: Several items that appear to be part of a child's pullup pants
155) The duct tape over the mouth area caught up the hair along the side of the skull, keeping the tape in place
156) The duct tape printed with "Henkel" in a black oval. "Consumer Adhesives Inc max temp 200/Avon Ohio 33011"
157) Small bones were also recovered from the bag. No apparent trauma to the skull.
158) Lee's girlfriend Mallory Parker was at the Anthony home when LE arrived with the search warrant.
159) A laundry bag with the same identification markings (Whitney Design) was found at the Anthony home.
160) A red metal gas can was found with duct tape of the same make and brand as that found on the scull
161) LE found a picture of Casey and Caylee with Caylee wearing shorts similar to those found with the body.
162) LE found and photographed child rearing book with bookmarked pages about dealing with childhood tantrums.
163) FBI analyst found Circo shirts in Caylee's room, one with a tag w/same # as the tag on the shirt in the bag.
164) Pullups were found that were similar to pullups found in Casey's car.
165) No trash bags similar to the ones found with the remains were found at TonE's or Amy's homes.
166) Trash bags similar to the ones found the the remains were found at the Anthony home.
167) Per Dr. G: no obvious signs of trauma to the body.
168) Per Dr. G: cause of death:homicide by undetermined means
169) Per Dr. G: manner of death: homicide
170) 12/20/08, a search warrant specifically relevant to the discovery was served on the Anthonys.
171) When SW was served, Cindy blurted out that a Winnie the Pooh blanket was missing from the house.
172) When SW was served, George was upset, angry and confrontational.
173) In front of witnesses Cindy stated she had people walk "that area" a month before and nothing was there.
174) Roy Kronk first called LE to report a suspicious bag on 8/11/08
175) Roy Kronk called LE again on the evening of 8/12/08 and was advised to call Crimeline
176) Roy Kronk called LE again on 8/13/08, nothing was found and Kronk felt belittled by LE.
177) Roy Kronk called again on December 11th after nudging the suspect bag and finding a skull.
178) 1/7/09, Annie Downing, friend of Casey since 10th grade, was interviewed by LE
179) Per Annie: she didn't know Casey to use illegal drugs or prescription narcotics
180) Annie denied ever having given Xanax to Casey.
181) Per Annie: Cindy called often to demand that Casey return home to take care of Caylee.
182) Per Annie: Cindy found a credit card statement showing that Casey "spent a lot of their money"
183) Per Annie: the only time she ever heard Casey say "the nanny" was 7/5/2008 with witnesses.
184) Per Annie: her father had seen Casey the previous week at liquor store, Caylee was not present.
185) Per Annie: no mention from Casey of a friend named Zenaida or of Raquell Farrell or Jennifer Rosa.
186) Per Annie: never heard of Casey dating Jeffrey Hopkins or his alleged son Zachary.
187) Lee told Annie: "Protect yourself. You need to tell them (LE) the truth. Don't protect Casey.
188) Per Annie: Casey lied to and stole from people she knew.
189) Per Annie: in late 2006 or late 2007 Casey felt like she was having a breakdown, later she said everything was fine.
190) 7/3/08, Annie received a message from Lee on MySpace asking if she knew where Casey and Caylee were.
191) Annie contacted Casey who said Lee was crazy and everything was fine.
192) When Annie spent a night when Casey was home on bail, Casey said Caylee would be home by her 3rd birthday.
193) Annie didn't believe Casey's stories.
194) Cindy was writing emails posing as Casey, Cindy said she would do what she had to to bring Caylee home.
195) Annie doesn't believe Casey was ever pregnant by Brandon Snow or had a miscarriage.
196) Casey told Annie that Jessie had a key to her car and may have done something to it after it was abandoned.
197) Michelle Murphy, longtime friend of the family, got to know Casey through Lee and saw Caylee several times.
198) Michelle lived with Lee Anthony and Brian Lufkin in May '07 until September '07.
199) Michelle found it odd that Casey claimed to be an event coordinator when she had no schooling for that position.
200) Michelle believed Casey was lying about her job and said she was known to lie about 'little stupid things'.
201) Per Michelle: Caylee did not like to be away from Casey.
202) Per Michelle: Casey said she was pregnant by Brandon Snow and had a miscarriage. Michelle doubts Casey was ever pregnant.
203) Per Michelle: Casey complained a lot about her relationship with George.
204) Per Michelle: Casey was thinking about getting herself committed.
205) Per Michelle, the next day Casey "blew [her] off and said everything was fine. Michelle doubted the story.
206) Michelle never heard of Zanny, or that Casey was using a nanny.
207) Michelle knew no one named Jennifer Rosa, Raquel Farrel, Jeff Hopkins or his child Zachary.
208) July 2 or 3, Lee contacted Michelle via MySpace, saying no one had seen Casey or talked to Caylee in a while.
209) Per Michelle: Casey had been posting new photos to her Facebook account during that period.
210) Per Michelle: Lee found out Casey was to be at "The Dragon Room" and was going with Brian Lufkin to get her. Casey heard they were coming & left.
211) Through Brian and Mallory, Michelle learned that Casey said she did not want to see Lee or anybody else.
212) 1/20/09, interns of Jose Baez from Florida A&M law School arrived at COC to photograph calendars of Cpl Edwards.
213) Detectives state they have been unable to find any trace of any Zenaida Gonzalez who cared for Caylee.
214) Per LE: "Evidence suggests that the body of Caylee Anthony was in the trunk of Casey's car and removed prior to June 27th.
215) Per LE: Evidence on the body suggests that the child's death was not accidental but an intentional act.
216) 12/15/08 YM received a letter addressed to "Lee" which was mailed to the Forensic Unit by an unknown person.
217) Crime scene and home discoveries: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3464-3513redacted.pdf
218) Items removed from Anthony home on December 11, 2008: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/3536-3590redacted.pdf
219) Meter reader Kronk, who discovered the remains, has had his legal bills of + $10,000 paid by the county
220) A journal of Casey's dated 2003 was found in her room: http://www.cayleedaily.com/2009/02/18/disturbing-casey-journal-entry-among-evidence-released/

As always, if you find errors or omissions please let me know so I can fix or add. I'm off to go document more. I hope I get this batch done before the next dump.

Stay tuned.

[enigma]

<respectfully snipped>

You probably noticed that Saywhat04 is suggesting including the police calls going back to 2003. I'm not sure about that, is it relevant enough, what do you think?

To me, those calls are not just relevant, they positively scream off the monitor.

Let me put it this way:

How many times have you or your family had police "Calls for Service" to LE?

If any, how many of them were "Disturbance", "Rescue", "Verbal" or "Stolen Vehicle"?

Speaking for me and my family, my husband's family, our close friends and relatives, from ever since I can remember, there were NONE. ZERO-ZILCH-ZIP-NADA. And I would like to think that applies to most.

What are the odds that a family with a documented history of police calls ends up with a murdered child and a pathological liar and thief accused of her own baby's murder? Better than average, I would suggest.

And very, very, very telling. Did I say "very" three times? Opps - so I did. I meant to make it 30 - snipped for space.:wink:

JMHO

JMHO

[enigma]

The lists are growing beautifully. I tried to start something like that earlier in the case (keeping a record of "lies") but it never took off.

You're doing a great job. :thumbsup:

JMHO

[PuffDragon]

To me, those calls are not just relevant, they positively scream off the monitor.

<Snipped for space>


Okay, they're in, I just wanted some input on how posters felt about the relevancy so I thank you for bringing it up. I do agree that the report points to a trail of issues within that family that goes back years. It also shows a pattern of Cindy and George being unable to solve their own family problems without turning to LE for help. My reservation was that we were categorizing it as "previous bad acts" that might have been irrelevant to Casey's behavior with Caylee. But I have been convinced that it should go in as a historical reference.

[PuffDragon]

The lists are growing beautifully. I tried to start something like that earlier in the case (keeping a record of "lies") but it never took off.

You're doing a great job. :thumbsup:

JMHO

Thank you for the thumbs up. Send a couple over to Need2no, too. Lots and lots of work listening to those videos (urgh) and copying them! Just typing them into my data has me screaming inside my mind, I can just imagine having to listen to them too!!!

[enigma]

Thank you for the thumbs up. Send a couple over to Need2no, too. Lots and lots of work listening to those videos (urgh) and copying them! Just typing them into my data has me screaming inside my mind, I can just imagine having to listen to them too!!!

You're absolutely right - I can't imagine that either.

Need2no - thank you. :)

jmho

[PuffDragon]

Nothing from Lee's depo is making it into "Facts" because his repeating what others said is not corroboration. I could say it's a fact he said them, but instead I'm going to give him his own list. Most of this addition is what I gleaned from the last dump of Dominic Casey's interview:

221) 1/7/09, LE interviewed Dominic Casey
222) Per D. Casey: Ginny Lucas said she had a vision of Caylee in the area of Hope Spring Drive near the school
224) Per D. Casey: Ginny Lucas said she had a vision of Caylee in the area of Hope Spring Drive near the school
225) Per D Casey: He arrives at the area and talks to G. Lucas on phone as she directs him to the place where the pavers were.
226) Per D. Casey: He wanted to verify this was the place where the teenagers hung out as stated by Kiomarie.
227) Per D. Casey: He was surprised to turn around and find Hoover videotaping his searching. He had not asked Hoover to do it.
228) Per D. Casey: He spoke 2 or 3 times to G. Lucas and once to his sick daughter while he was at the site.
229) Per D. Casey: we searched the abandoned house area, the pond, trash in the yard, to see if anything looked disturbed.
230) Per D. Casey: I was freaked out because the psychic in Virginia ont he phone was telling me what I was looking at in this area
231) Per D. Casey: I went back with James the next day to make sure that Caylee Marie wasn't there.
232) Per D. Casey: I talked to about a half dozen other psychics. The others weren't credible enough to follow up on.
233) Per D. Casey: It was when I terminated....with Baez, I entered into a letter of engagement with the Anthonys.
234) Per D. Casey: Baez was from 7/29 through 10/1; Casey Anthony on 9/12; The As (solely for finding Caylee) on 10/1.
235) Per D. Casey: Agreement with Casey Anthony was never terminated but has been blocked by Baez and no services provided.
236) Per D. Casey: I went to the search site a third time, by myself, just to look around again.
237) Per D. Casey: we got hundreds of tips that Caylee was alive and checked all of them.
238) Per D. Casey I heard the news on the radio at the Tip Toe nail salon in Sanford.
239) Per D. Casey: Michelle Bart made all the arrangements for the Anthonys to stay at the Ritz when they returned from CA
240) Per D. Casey: We had dinner there, George, CIndy, Lee & Mallory, Caitlyn (media) James Hoover, and self, then Baez arrived.
241) D. Casey and the Milsteads were on the back porch helping to calm George when the Dec. SW was executed.
242) George refused to shake hands with John Allen after the search and screamed at him to get out of the house and take his "f*'n flunkies" with him.
243) July 17, search dogs were taken to Anthony home. They hit on 2 places in the yard and in the car trunk.
244) Meter Reader Kronk threatens to sue L. Padilla for smearing his name
George and Cindy fighting depositions in ZFG case; Lee agreed to give deposition
245) 2/24, 2 CDs with hundreds of pictures of Casey from her Photobucket account were released to defense. Baez asked to have them blocked.
246) Lee announced that if there were media present at his deposition he would turn around and leave.
247) Lee was deposed in a 'practice courtroom' at Morgan's office.
248) Lee's deposition was taped and available to the media.