Sunday, February 1st Part I

[CelticDawn]

Not a Cindy fan at all... but I have to give her credit where credit is due. When did she have time to do anything other than work and keep the household going?



I cant abide a lazy no account man......HOWever...

If George decided to be a layabout and donothing....maybe it was because he just GAVE UP.....cindy is loud and overbearing....and has sadly mistaken herself as some kind of brain trust...<NOT>.....If I were geroge...I wouldnt do squat for that woman.....AND I AM A WOMAN. :cuss: :cursing:

[Destini]

I so agree..Even in a home with nothing bad going on, being around each other 24/7 is not a good thing to do.....

Ain't that the truth ....

Don't you just know her mouth ran incessantly after he testified at the grand jury, trying to find out what he said?

I think George knows more than he's telling, and I'm hoping these psychiatrists are getting through to him somehow he needs to come clean with it. Going home with Cindy will shut him back down.

[WillowInFlight]

Thanks Willow. I deleted my post after I saw my question answered.

And I shouldn't have said I think Casey is mentally immature, I meant emotionally, I'm trying to type and peel potatoes. :laugh:

[tookie99]

Fear, loyalty, love, duty.

Casey has all the traits of a sociopath. Sociopaths aren't capable of loyalty, love or duty and only feel fear for themselves.:thumbdown:

[Mamie]

Fear, loyalty, love, duty.

Can you explain your above answer just a little bit more? Fear of what/whom? Loyalty to what/whom? Love, I think Casey loves just herself. Obviously, in her eyes, she comes first. Duty? Let's see-----duty. Oh yes, she felt she had such duty to her mother and father that she lied to them about working at all and having a nanny for Caylee and sponged off them as much as she could and stole what she could from them. Duty. TIA, dear. JMO

[playnice]

Casey's smile was for her lawyers. Ok . . Fine. What about the flirty, improper, ill-timed incident with the pen between Casey and Jose? I'm sure Casey will have no smiles during the trial. Unfortunately her lawyers will drill that point home to her. I sure wish the jurors could see what we see at these motion hearings. The girl was smiling and flirting while her daughter's remains were being discussed. Unbelievable!:thumbdown:

They can coach her but she is so man crazy I dont think she will be able to stop herself from going into heat mode when TonE and others show up to testify.

[need2no]

I'm sure his parents must be quite elderly, but if they still have a home I'm hoping he goes there. Or maybe he has siblings there. Cindy didn't want to get a divorce from him because he would get half of everything or whatever, but if he filed for divorce she wouldn't really have a choice.

Not that I think he's perfect by any means, but Lord knows a person can only take so much. Separating might give them both a much needed break from one another so they can clear their heads & hopefully move this thing along.


IIRC, George has a sister who still resides in Ohio. The one who they think has 'issues', and I believe they mentioned she was bi-polar.

IF they could sell their house for 179K (the amount the house appraised for in '05), they would only have 60K in equity to squabble over. (per bond hearing)

Under the circumstances I think Cindy would be irate if George doesn't return home upon his discharge from the hospital, even though she now has Lee at home. But who knows, George might take a stand and just refuse to return home for now....in fact his doctors might recommend it to him and Cindy. If this happens Lee might have to make another move himself. :smile:

[?noanswer]

And I shouldn't have said I think Casey is mentally immature, I meant emotionally, I'm trying to type and peel potatoes. :laugh:


That's what I would call multi tasking!!! JMO

[Danette44]

Don't forget there are some out there that believe this was a "kidnapping, money making scheme" that went terribly wrong.

You're right - but if for instance Jeffery Hopkins came forward and said yes he had a son name Zak and he did referr Casey to his babysitter - it would of made a world of difference - but not ONE SOUL knew this babysitter, nor no phone numbers or text messages, and she had known her for 4 yrs and babysat Caylee for almost 2 years. So, how in the world will a jury accept a kidnapping when there is no such person found - and lets not forget she did say on record that that ZFG wasn't the right one. jmoo

[Mamie]

Don't forget there are some out there that believe this was a "kidnapping, money making scheme" that went terribly wrong.

Horsepucky! JMO

[kitty1182]

Ain't that the truth ....

Don't you just know her mouth ran incessantly after he testified at the grand jury, trying to find out what he said?

I think George knows more than he's telling, and I'm hoping these psychiatrists are getting through to him somehow he needs to come clean with it. Going home with Cindy will shut him back down.

Going back to that house is the worse thing he could do right now..IMO

[Destini]

Is there now talk of Cindy and George seperating or divorcing , I may have missed this . Or is this talk here just on the boards because some feel Cindy is bad for George?


MO is They both have their faults and who in this world does not ? I do not think any one of them is worse then the other and in fact neither of them are BAD at all .

As far as I know they have leaned on one another through this nightmare and do need each other ...........unless one of them changes their mind and wants out for whatever reasons ,then let them lean on one another ....

No, just me opining this might be best for them .... but if they want to be together, fine by me. Honestly, I could not be around Cindy for more than a few minutes. If nothing else, she talks too much. George probably can't even think straight. IMO

[Heyes]

I look at things in a different light than I notice that most do- my thought is Caylee is at the age where she can talk now and can repeat things that she heres or sees.

The entire duct tape thing took that twist with the heart sticker on it- it looked to me as if the duct tape was there to signify Caylee keeping secrets. To keep Caylee from talking. It also leads me down the road to this was a mercy killing to keep Caylee away from CA. The tattoo to signify that "Now" Caylee can have a beautiful life and the partying to signify that CA will never have her now. To keep Caylee from having the life she had with CA. IMOO

Interesting take. I think you may be on to something there.. Personally, I think cindy needs a little sticker over her mouth. Lord that woman is something else. Fortunately I don't know anyone like her.

[need2no]

I look at things in a different light than I notice that most do- my thought is Caylee is at the age where she can talk now and can repeat things that she heres or sees.

The entire duct tape thing took that twist with the heart sticker on it- it looked to me as if the duct tape was there to signify Caylee keeping secrets. To keep Caylee from talking. It also leads me down the road to this was a mercy killing to keep Caylee away from CA. The tattoo to signify that "Now" Caylee can have a beautiful life and the partying to signify that CA will never have her now. To keep Caylee from having the life she had with CA. IMOO

Interesting.......

Agree about the timing...yes, Caylee was starting to communicate and would be able to tell the tale, but I thought the tale would be no nanny, where she spent her time, what she did, and even possibly what casey did to keep her quiet.

As for the partying...are you suggesting a type of celebration due to the fact that Cindy would no longer have influence over Caylee's life, and screwing her up like she screwed casey up?

[Heyes]

And I shouldn't have said I think Casey is mentally immature, I meant emotionally, I'm trying to type and peel potatoes. :laugh:

Type and peel potatoes now there's a talent! :tongue:

[ruth66]

I tell you what, Willow. I'm not trying to be adversarial here, but I am getting tired of being insulted and disparaged every time I try to discuss my perspective on this. I don't think it is necessary for the sarcasm. I am challenging you and the others here are so convinced that she is guilty of the murder and I am asking to show me what you have. If you can't, then you have to admit that just like me, you have nothing and you are willing to convict her and send her off to death on nothing?

Bolding mine
I just have to jump in here for a second....January you can honestly say
"you have nothing"? From all the doc's that were released by LE(not the media) there is more than enough to convict her. It is not all circumstational either. What about the hair with decomp found in Casey's trunk that belonged to CAYLEE? The stain in the trunk? And that is just for starters. I can go along with you and say that "you don't believe" she killed her but to say there is "nothing" is a stretch. Sorry buy I will agree to disagree...I am just sayin':smile:

[SavannahStar]

Type and peel potatoes now there's a talent! :tongue:


:laugh: Yes it is. Willow, that's impressive!!!!!!!

[WillowInFlight]

You're right - but if for instance Jeffery Hopkins came forward and said yes he had a son name Zak and he did referr Casey to his babysitter - it would of made a world of difference - but not ONE SOUL knew this babysitter, nor no phone numbers or text messages, and she had known her for 4 yrs and babysat Caylee for almost 2 years. So, how in the world will a jury accept a kidnapping when there is no such person found - and lets not forget she did say on record that that ZFG wasn't the right one. jmoo

I think once this comes to trial, Baez is going to do what ever it takes to keep the name Zanny away from the jury. Though I don't know how that going to work for him since Casey insisted Zanny took Caylee. I just don't see how he can use that defense with nothing to back up that she even existed.

[SavannahStar]

I agree with you totally. Not like they would all come up with a story and put the body within a 1/4 mile of the house.


Yup!

And that's a BINGO!

[Mamie]

I think that if the true facts ever surface in this case, we will have all of those answers. I can not so much as provide you with those answers as anyone here can provide me with the answers to my questions (What was the motive, where did it take place, what murder weapon was used, when was the murder committed, why did she kill her if she did) so I guess we are all at a standstill.


Well, I can give you motive, so you if you're stating four reasons, shouldn't you (as well) be able to give me more of an answer? We're not talking about waiting for answers from others, I asked you a straight-up question and you failed miserably.

[WillowInFlight]

:laugh: Yes it is. Willow, that's impressive!!!!!!!

:blushing: Did someone say something about priorities? :laugh:

[need2no]

Was going to say the same thing, lol. Can't imagine this is good for Lee on any level. (Of course, if something's coming down the pike on Lee, our point is moot! :w00t:)

Yes M'am, that's for sure!

Guess he will be returning tomorrow since the Super Bowl will be over...could be interesting this week.

[AlohaRainbow]

Yes, there is evidence of a decomposing body in the trunk of her car. Does that tell me she did it or was just driving around with a decomposing dead body in the car. Again, I am not being adversarial, but I just would like to know what makes everyone here so certain she committed murder and not just the moving of a dead body.
for me, although i was already leaning toward casey killed caylee, i was willing to wait for further evidence to emerge that might indicate it was an accident. the duct tape solidified it for me that casey killed caylee and it was no accident.

[SavannahStar]

Is there now talk of Cindy and George seperating or divorcing , I may have missed this . Or is this talk here just on the boards because some feel Cindy is bad for George?


MO is They both have their faults and who in this world does not ? I do not think any one of them is worse then the other and in fact neither of them are BAD at all .

As far as I know they have leaned on one another through this nightmare and do need each other ...........unless one of them changes their mind and wants out for whatever reasons ,then let them lean on one another ....


Well stated, ParaTROLL, I totally agree.

Who knows what the future may hold. We hear so much of married couples splitting up when there is an awful tragedy in the family...loss of a child and the like. It seems like Cindy and George had some bad ups and downs prior to this case, but have become closer. Or at least give that appearance, and I'm inclined to believe it. So they just might be the total opposite of what very often happens in this type of situation.....it brought them closer together. :shrug:

[sunstar]

I'm not convinced he's capable of coming up with a strategy.

Good point! :D I think that may be left to LKB and sooner or later she'll become lead counsel, if only unofficially. MOO

[CelticDawn]

No, just me opining this might be best for them .... but if they want to be together, fine by me. Honestly, I could not be around Cindy for more than a few minutes. If nothing else, she talks too much. George probably can't even think straight. IMO

I can only imagine the unwanted and inappropriate things that cindy would give him advuice on???.....No wonder the poor mans hair is white!!

[WillowInFlight]

Was going to say the same thing, lol. Can't imagine this is good for Lee on any level. (Of course, if something's coming down the pike on Lee, our point is moot! :w00t:)

I'm getting tired of the teasing that Lee "is close to be arrested", either he is or he isn't. Do it or don't. LOL

[rj1212]

There's still people who think Casey didn't kill Caylee? Really?
After all of the evidence? The docs? Finally...the deception to kill time...31 days? Casey not showing a care in the world about her daughter...either before the arrests or after for that matter?

I've been following this story since late July. While I respect the opinions of others, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand what happened.

Since late July, virtually EVERYTHING has pointed to the guilt of Casey...is anyone else involved with her? Time will tell.

[Lilly12]

circumstantial evidence and direct evidence weight the same in court


If the state had to convict only on direct evidence, well just imagine....... If one cannot or does not believe in circumstantial evdience, they should not be on a jury, imo........ How many crimes have an eye witness. And todays criminals are very smart/savvy about leaving direct evidence.......Leopold and Loeb, killed a little boy (their neighbor), just to prove they could get away with murder (so you know they were not going to leave any direct evidence)..........Had it not been for circumstatial evidence, they would have achieved their goal. my opinion only

[SavannahStar]

I failed miserably. Okay. :shrug:

I actually think you'd make an excellent juror in this case, January. Probably much better than anyone I've read on here. You do have an open and analytical mind. And NOT afraid to differ from the majority opinion. I don't think you'd let anyone on the jury bully you. :biggrin:

[myownopera]

for me, although i was already leaning toward casey killed caylee, i was willing to wait for further evidence to emerge that might indicate it was an accident. the duct tape solidified it for me that casey killed caylee and it was no accident.

Don't you think, though Aloha, that if Caylee died accidently (because kc either over dosed her or she did in a hot car, that happens here in Fla many time, that if it was an accident -- that maybe kc used the duct tape to make it look like a kidnapping??? I don't trulythink she is that smart, but she might have thought of this or perhaps someone else thought of it for her?????

MOO

[?noanswer]

I'm getting tired of the teasing that Lee "is close to be arrested", either he is or he isn't. Do it or don't. LOL

Funny thing about that - it's coming from his own atty. LE has said nothing. JMO

[need2no]

I'm getting tired of the teasing that Lee "is close to be arrested", either he is or he isn't. Do it or don't. LOL

Be patient Willow...LE might just want to respectfully wait until the funeral and memorial for Caylee have been held.


I'm out of here for a bit...unlike you, I can't prepare dinner and type, I'm just not that talented. :biggrin:

[8BellesFan]

Yes, and I can tell you why my theory holds water. Anyone that knows anything about child abuse, will tell you that a child that has been a victim of child abuse will be drawn to automatically protect the parent that is abusing them. Abuse comes in several forms. The strongest of which is verbal/emotional abuse. Take a look at the conversations and power struggles going on between Casey and Cindy. It's so clear to me and others here who have said the same, that Cindy uses words as her weapon of choice against her daughter. So yes, the same mom that she told "everbody lies, everybody dies" if that is what she said, the same mom who tried to wring her neck if that is what happened and the same mom who called Casey's child a mistake and made sure she ground it in Caseys face on a daily basis what a loser Casey was.

so maybe Casey erased her so called mistake

[rj1212]

I actually think you'd make an excellent juror in this case, January. Probably much better than anyone I've read on here. You do have an open and analytical mind. And NOT afraid to differ from the majority opinion. I don't think you'd let anyone on the jury bully you. :biggrin:

So an "open mind" means that I merely agree with SavannahStar...got it! :thumbup:

[WillowInFlight]

Well stated, ParaTROLL, I totally agree.

Who knows what the future may hold. We hear so much of married couples splitting up when there is an awful tragedy in the family...loss of a child and the like. It seems like Cindy and George had some bad ups and downs prior to this case, but have become closer. Or at least give that appearance, and I'm inclined to believe it. So they just might be the total opposite of what very often happens in this type of situation.....it brought them closer together. :shrug:

I was just going to say the same thing, I do know of some cases where tragedy has brought couples on the brink of divorce a lot closer, As much as I disagree with what I feel they have done after the fact, I hope that they have each other to lean on, they now share a very sad sorry bond. I just wish they could open up to each other and share with the other how they are feeling, but right now IMO too much blame is being thrown around.

[8BellesFan]

So an "open mind" means that I merely agree with SavannahStar...got it! :thumbup:

dang...I got that wrong again. dern it.:blushing:

[AlohaRainbow]

I can name three that she would take the wrap for and willingly so. Her parents and her brother.
:confused: i'm really curious about your statement - what evidence do you have to support that belief??

[Mimi428]

Fear, loyalty, love, duty.

Can you point to any behaviors that we have seen from Casey that could be considered to be an example of any of those 4 things?

She doesn't seem to have fear of much of anything, certainly not of her family. If she had, we would not have heard her cussing at them like the proverbial sailor. If she had any fear, we would have seen her cowering or crying out or something after she got out of jail.

She hasn't shown one gram of fear towards them. On the other hand, we have seen them all cower, cajole, wheedle, excuse, defend, flatter & turn themselves darn near inside out in an effort to not pizz her off & get solid information out of her.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

So an "open mind" means that I merely agree with SavannahStar...got it! :thumbup:


:confused: Have no clue what you're trying to imply. I paid a compliment to January, you didn't have to turn around and make it about me. :thumbdown:

(There is A LOT, A LOT A LOT that I don't agree with January about.)

[tookie99]

so maybe Casey erased her so called mistake

Sociopths do not ever protect anyone but themselves.:closedeyes:

[Heyes]

Funny thing about that - it's coming from his own atty. LE has said nothing. JMO

That's what gets me. LE has said nothing. These strange attorney's keep making all these announcements. I can't figure out if they did get a heads up or they just want their faces on tv so they make this stuff up. Whatever, I hope Lee fired this guy. I mean, why would you ever want that rumor out there and started by your own attorney? Wait........he's an anthony. Maybe he was thinking in a backwards sort of way there would be a groundswell of support for him, ooops Lee sorry bro, didn't happen. Most people said...good bring it on!.

imo.

[Lilly12]

I don't need beyond a shadow, myself, since life is rarely that black and white.

Beyond a reasonable is good enough for me, and I personally feel there's mountains of evidence that give me no reasonable doubt the right alleged perp is in jail.


Reasonable doubt good enough for you and the courts...............Beyond a shadow of a doubt .......wouldn't that be quite impossible? moo

[Neffy]

:confused: Have no clue what you're trying to imply. I paid a compliment to January, you didn't have to turn around and make it about me. :thumbdown:

(There is A LOT, A LOT A LOT that I don't agree with January about.)

It sounded like a description of a "steath" juror. One who digs there heels in and short of a video tape refuses to budge. :shrug: I didn't see any personal attack.

[Lapis]

The GJ heard/had enough evidence to indict Casey. Should this had been in error. Baez would have filed a motion to dismiss. That certainly hasn't happened. Out of all the frivilous motions IMO I've seen filed that certainly would have been in there if there was any merit to it.

Neffy I'm not picking on you just using your post as a jumping off point. In motions to dismiss the court must give every inference of the evidence to the prosecution. In other words, if everything the prosecution says is true can a jury convict? Secondly, since all of the evidence is not in the motion would be premature. JMO

[AMS]

Here's a link to a guy who did some additional research on Todd Black or should I say the elusive Todd whatever his real name is.

http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/what-is-up-with-todd-black-again/

[WillowInFlight]

Well I want to be paid dang it. And if the defense wants to know what I think and how I think this should play out, I'll gladly tell him that Casey should cut her loses, admit that this was either an accident or that she unwittingly (sure) took out her rage on Caylee.
This child and this family, not to mention the tax payers, have been through enough at her expense, Time to pull up her big girl panties and be someone that her family can be proud of just once.

Of course this is all my opinion.

[kitty1182]

Don't you think, though Aloha, that if Caylee died accidently (because kc either over dosed her or she did in a hot car, that happens here in Fla many time, that if it was an accident -- that maybe kc used the duct tape to make it look like a kidnapping??? I don't trulythink she is that smart, but she might have thought of this or perhaps someone else thought of it for her?????

MOO

Maybe she got the duct tape idea from the Ramsey case..That little girl had duct tape too...

[rj1212]

:confused: Have no clue what you're trying to imply. I paid a compliment to January, you didn't have to turn around and make it about me. :thumbdown:

(There is A LOT, A LOT A LOT that I don't agree with January about.)

I'm sorry...I thought that you referenced everyone else on this board which included me. You referenced the fact of having an open mind, etc...

Paying a compliment to someone is a great thing...really. But to imply that others on the board don't have an open mind while giving the compliment is why I felt the need to comment.

[nc1948]

How come we all knew about the duct tape and the defense didn't?
How stupid is that?

And I was so sure they were reading the message boards. If they had then they would not have had to buy the magazine.

[Neffy]

Sounds like someone who should be on a jury such as the Cynthia Sommer case when the jurors just decided to go with the "behavior" and not the evidence of the murder which was the science of the supposed "poisoning".

This isn't anywhere near that case so I fail to see the analogy.

[AlohaRainbow]

Enough for her to be convicted of the charges?? To me she may very well be the worst performance of a mother that I have seen, second only to Cindy. It may be that she partied, did not report Caylee missing and had no intention of ever reporting her missing, she may be disassociated with reality, and a horrible liar- it doesn't get me to murder. Wanting to party is not motive enough for me, and no you don't need motive to convict but at this point without the release of the description of the shirt that was found with Caylee- I am not even convinced that Casey was there at the A's the night of the 15th and that Cindy is not that last person to see Caylee. IMOO
iirc (and someone please correct me if i'm wrong), i saw somewhere in the docs that were released that casey received either a call or text from cindy around ?4pm on the afternoon of the 15th, and that casey showed up at the house around 6??

anyhoo, i'm pretty sure that casey did show up at the anthony home that afternoon/evening.

[Heyes]

The fact that Casey would take the rap for anyone is ridiculous. The Casey Anthony that I've come to know is beyond selfish! Its all about HER. Sitting in a jail cell without her party dresses and her cellphone is not something she would do for any living soul.

She nearly lost it because cindy made chili on Caylees b-day. Can you imagine if she was covering for them? HA! You would have seen her spin in circles and spit green pea soup. Nope the little princess is not covering for anyone but herself. imo

[WillowInFlight]

And I was so sure they were reading the message boards. If they had then they would not have had to buy the magazine.

I still can't believe they:rolleyes: went on national tv and said that.

[8BellesFan]

I'm late for my job at Sports Authority....


Oh wait, like Casey, I don't work there either:scared:

[rj1212]

I've seen SavannahStar and January disagree.....so no you would be incorrect with your attack on Savannah and her definition of "open mind"

attack???:lol:

wow...

[sunstar]

He can't Willow..very good point.. Zanny ain't gonna fly..
you also know what I think?

Defense is here on this board..readin to see what good ideas these fine posters can come up with that might fly..

they have all of us..don't have to pay us..or pay for us to go to court..
free ideas..

Well, in that case, I'll have to disagree with you about Zanny and say the best defense would be to just follow what Casey told LE and LE didn't take the time to go look for the real ZFG. :thumbsup: MOO

[Lapis]

See IMO that's why he fought the gag order or one of the reasons. It was strategy. The more out there the more he will dig into some technicallity appeal. At least that IMO was his line of thought. In the end it will always come back to his opposition of the gag.

You are so right. I recently re-listened to that hearing. Its amazing what you can hear if you are listening with a particular thought in mind. If I were the prosecution, I would attach a copy of that transcript to my opposition to the COV motion and say we have nothing further your honor. JMO

[rj1212]

Paid a compliment, and delivered another drive-by insult to the group:

Thanks SayWhat03...I was just to lazy to quote it...

[8BellesFan]

attack???:lol:

wow...


don't sweat it...it's just message board button pushing buzzwords.

shine on...

[FrankieBones1]

There's still people who think Casey didn't kill Caylee? Really?
After all of the evidence? The docs? Finally...the deception to kill time...31 days? Casey not showing a care in the world about her daughter...either before the arrests or after for that matter?((snipped a bit)).
A caller into HNN this past weekend, believes that someone other than Casey killed Caylee. She is from the Carolinas and her name is Elizabeth. Mike Gallanos was dumbstruck.

[Lilly12]

Can you just explain to me that if there wasn't evidence to show that she murdered Caylee, why was she charged with murder? Who was Casey covering for, for 31 days? No sarcasm intended.


If Casey did not do it, with what we read and heard, who then.......There is no one else with such evidence against them......... So I guess the bad fairy did it or maybe the evil fairy. Or maybe Caylee killed herself. There's the ticket, Caylee killed herself. moo

[WillowInFlight]

I'm sorry...I thought that you referenced everyone else on this board which included me. You referenced the fact of having an open mind, etc...

Paying a compliment to someone is a great thing...really. But to imply that others on the board don't have an open mind while giving the compliment is why I felt the need to comment.

I think you must have misread, it's not like Savannah said " UNlike others, you have an open mind". I just think she was letting January know that SHE is impressed with the way she thinks.:smile:

[sunstar]

She nearly lost it because cindy made chili on Caylees b-day. Can you imagine if she was covering for them? HA! You would have seen her spin in circles and spit green pea soup. Nope the little princess is not covering for anyone but herself. imo

I can't believe either that she'd sit in jail waiting for her murder trial if she was covering up for anybody ~ except herself. MOO

[rj1212]

Yep, I'd say that you implying that when Savannah says someone has an "open mind" that it means they merely agree with her and you got it, plus a thumbs up is an attack.

Go ahead and back pedal.

nope...it's light sarcasm at best...but nice try...:thumbsup:

[ruth66]

We are looking at these bits of circumstantial evidence entirely differently and that's okay. I feel like I am talking and nobody is exactly hearing me. I see those bits of "evidence" as Casey being guilty of one thing and one thing only - trying to dispose of a dead body. That's all I'm seeing. I don't see where it leads to evidence that Casey and Casey's hand alone, took the life of that child.

And so it goes....

But why January, would Casey be so willing to drive her dead daughters body around in the back of her trunk until she could dispose of her? Why not drive up to the sheriffs dept. and report it? If she was only somewhat involved as you suggest, wouldn't that involvement mean less prison time than she is facing now?
And, I just don't see Casey as being the faithful, loyal person to be willing to put her life on the line. She couldn't even wait to break off a relationship with one guy to get to the next. The loyalty factor doesn't exist. JMO and I respect yours as well

[WillowInFlight]

I'm late for my job at Sports Authority....


Oh wait, like Casey, I don't work there either:scared:

:laugh: I almost worked there once, then it closed. :laugh:

[sachae]

Wonder why Cindy was a no show on Geraldo last night? Glad I didn't stay up to hear Jose whining again. He keeps complaining about discovery being leaked. What difference does it make? It will eventually all come out and he will have to deal with it at trial which could be a year away. jmo

Good point, my question is, in the States, as I live in Ontario, if there is no trial for about a year, does she stayl in the jail that she is in, or do they place her in another jail, that maybe is not as nice, not that I am saying a jail cell is nice, and no I do not have first hand info, only what I have seen on T.V. or read about. Also would she know that her Dad had a breakdown, which I am sure would not bother her, except that he seemed to be in her camp any time we saw the tapes on T.V. but I really think he was not, he wanted to just get her to admit what she had done, and I do feel bad for all of them except Casey, it is like the saying "Oh what a tangle web we weave, when first we practice to deseve!!" One final question, why do you think she placed the little red heart on the tape over her daughter's mouth, I still can not understand that one, because she is not able to feel anything, one way or the other, so that has me at a lost!!

[rj1212]

I think you must have misread, it's not like Savannah said " UNlike others, you have an open mind". I just think she was letting January know that SHE is impressed with the way she thinks.:smile:

Great Willow...thanks! You know, I like having an open mind.

[Pooh]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.

[Heyes]

I'm sorry...I thought that you referenced everyone else on this board which included me. You referenced the fact of having an open mind, etc...

Paying a compliment to someone is a great thing...really. But to imply that others on the board don't have an open mind while giving the compliment is why I felt the need to comment.
Every trial we hear the "open mind" speech.. Just ignore it, in the end when casey is convicted you can celebrate not having an "open mind".
Nothing personal to anyone it's just insulting to hear the ole "open mind" carp....again.
My mind is open and it's being filled with bad casey behavior which makes casey look guilty and surprise, surprise....nobody else. My Open Mind is also filling up with bad behavior of the anthonys which is signaling COVER UP, but this is just me.

[WillowInFlight]

Great Willow...thanks! You know, I like having an open mind.

I do too, except when it comes to dessert, then it's all about me. :wink:

[Mamie]

Yes! Either get 'er done or stop the hype! I agree.


Mamie: is this your question: Mamie
Can you explain your above answer just a little bit more? Fear of what/whom? Loyalty to what/whom? Love, I think Casey loves just herself. Obviously, in her eyes, she comes first. Duty? Let's see-----duty. Oh yes, she felt she had such duty to her mother and father that she lied to them about working at all and having a nanny for Caylee and sponged off them as much as she could and stole what she could from them. Duty. TIA, dear. JMO

If you are looking for the answers to those questions, as I stated before, I can't answer these questions. But I can say that it is entirely possible that the reason she sits in jail today is because of one or more of those things. If I failed again, sorry, I'm too tired to take this test over again. This will have to suffice. :smile:


I only wanted a little bit more of an answer to the opinion you stated. You said fear. I asked fear of what/whom? And so on. I just think if someone says something, they should be able to back it up with what they mean by that. Don't you? Have you never been asked to clarify a statement you've made? JMO :smile:

[8BellesFan]

I always start out with an open mind. As time and information goes on, I gradually hone in on an opinion as I've done with this situation. But I am absolutely open to a video showing Casey baking brownies in the kitchen while someone else shuts the trunk.

[WillowInFlight]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.

I could and would easily believe that Pooh. Then it was out of sight, out of mind.

[Neffy]

Someone that analyzes the evidence, you claim is a "stealth" juror......I say it's good to look at all the evidence. So very good analogy.

Not what I said at all and nothing I replied to at all.

It doesn't apply to this case at all and what the evidence is. If it doesn't apply that makes it O/T and belongs on the Somner board.

[bhardy1956]

But we're not in court. Are we. And I refuse to rush to judgment on circumstantial evidence alone. I am not about to judge this girl as guilty without knowing the facts that show me she did the actual killing. There are 3 other suspects in my line of sight as far as I'm concerned and I'm not about to rule any of them out just yet.

Oh really?? Then how come these 3 suspects have not been named or in jail as we speak? No we are not in court yet, but we do have the only suspect in this case that will be tried in a court of law in jail.

[summer4meplz]

Here's a link to a guy who did some additional research on Todd Black or should I say the elusive Todd whatever his real name is.

http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/what-is-up-with-todd-black-again/


why isn't someone going after this info? but, what laws does this break? or ethics? very interesting link.....

ETA: I liked the idea that maybe Todd Black is Dennis Milstead.....sounds like something milstead may do...IMO

[Heyes]

If Casey did not do it, with what we read and heard, who then.......There is no one else with such evidence against them......... So I guess the bad fairy did it or maybe the evil fairy. Or maybe Caylee killed herself. There's the ticket, Caylee killed herself. moo

That's a jane Weintrob (sp) ism.....Like Lacy following Scott to the bay and throwing herself in, or renting a jetski to chase him. lol lol

[ruth66]

I'm getting tired of the teasing that Lee "is close to be arrested", either he is or he isn't. Do it or don't. LOL

Agreed, interesting thing is that his lawyer is the only one saying this. Makes me wonder what LEE has been hiding. I am worried that LEE is going to provide the "reasonable doubt" that is needed to free Casey. Maybe put enough out there for doubt but not enough to convict....
JMO nothing more....

[Neffy]

A caller into HNN this past weekend, believes that someone other than Casey killed Caylee. She is from the Carolinas and her name is Elizabeth. Mike Gallanos was dumbstruck.

Hi Frankie :seeya:

It sounds like a "leave Britanny alone" persona LOL!

[rj1212]

Every trial we hear the "open mind" speech.. Just ignore it, in the end when casey is convicted you can celebrate not having an "open mind".
Nothing personal to anyone it's just insulting to hear the ole "open mind" carp....again.
My mind is open and it's being filled with bad casey behavior which makes casey look guilty and surprise, surprise....nobody else. My Open Mind is also filling up with bad behavior of the anthonys which is signaling COVER UP, but this is just me.

Well said Heyes...ITA

Seems like the term "open mind" seems to imply that a person will leave their brain with the babysitter...
oh wait...

[summer4meplz]

I've been a bit behind this past week , where is this video of Casey pacing a hotel or motel please. I have not seen it ...I would like to though ,isit in the link section ,I check it regulary before reading the board ,maybe I missed it ?


IIRC Lenny is the only one that has made that claim....

[?noanswer]

The fact that Casey would take the rap for anyone is ridiculous. The Casey Anthony that I've come to know is beyond selfish! Its all about HER. Sitting in a jail cell without her party dresses and her cellphone is not something she would do for any living soul.


You got that right!! JMO

[Pooh]

I've been a bit behind this past week , where is this video of Casey pacing a hotel or motel please. I have not seen it ...I would like to though ,isit in the link section ,I check it regulary before reading the board ,maybe I missed it ?

I've only seen it on Nancy Grace's show. I don't know if it's in the links section or not.

[MichelleP]

I guess the same evidence you guys have that supports your belief that casey anthony murdered caylee. none.

There is more that supports our belief than your belief, but everyone has an opinion whatever it may be. You can think someone else did it such as someone else in the family besides Casey on no factual basis and we can think Casey did it on a little more evidence than you have.

[rj1212]

RJ, stop being so adversarial. She never implied any such thing. She was talking to me. And I got exactly what she said. Thanks for the comprehension assistance, though. Not needed.

So, to merely disagree means one is adversarial...oh okay.
I was done with it, because her words speak for themselves. That was a good compliment paid to you though. It's great to have an open mind. Now use that same open mind and realize that others have open minds just like you.

[bhardy1956]

I tell you what, Willow. I'm not trying to be adversarial here, but I am getting tired of being insulted and disparaged every time I try to discuss my perspective on this. I don't think it is necessary for the sarcasm. I am challenging you and the others here are so convinced that she is guilty of the murder and I am asking to show me what you have. If you can't, then you have to admit that just like me, you have nothing and you are willing to convict her and send her off to death on nothing?

Will someone give January the list of suspicious things casey did, before and after Caylee went missing? Remember we are not in court yet, and I believe there is more evidence that you could ever dream of. This list is a list that makes casey look very very guilty, and that's why the majority here "believe" she is guilty.

[8BellesFan]

I salute your open and indeed, analytical, mind. :patriot:

I salute you too!!:thumbsup:

What gets me cold to the bone is the early google searches and the boldness of stating things so easily proven false. The girl has no problem lying to anyone. To me, that's not fear, that is knowing people fear you...

[rj1212]

I always start out with an open mind. As time and information goes on, I gradually hone in on an opinion as I've done with this situation. But I am absolutely open to a video showing Casey baking brownies in the kitchen while someone else shuts the trunk.

8BellesFan, you sound like someone who has an open mind that most level headed people possess. You sound like you'd be a great juror!:thumbsup:

[?noanswer]

iirc (and someone please correct me if i'm wrong), i saw somewhere in the docs that were released that casey received either a call or text from cindy around ?4pm on the afternoon of the 15th, and that casey showed up at the house around 6??

anyhoo, i'm pretty sure that casey did show up at the anthony home that afternoon/evening.

Are you referring to June or July? JMO

[8BellesFan]

Will someone give January the list of suspicious things casey did, before and after Caylee went missing? Remember we are not in court yet, and I believe there is more evidence that you could ever dream of. This list is a list that makes casey look very very guilty, and that's why the majority here "believe" she is guilty.

I did, she said it's not enough for her...but I respect that.

[MichelleP]

Well, I think I said this before but I do feel she is afraid of her parents and I do think there is some story behind this story that we have no seen yet. So how are you asking me to answer a question when I don't have those facts? I think that it's a bit unreasonable particularly when I am repeating over and over again, that this is a hunch, a theory, an idea, a concept. So let's agree to disagree and you can be number 4 on the boards to do that with me today.

We have a hunch Casey did it. Imo we are only asking what you ask other users and that have for proof that Casey murdered Caylee. So do you have any proof that someone else did? That Lee, Cindy, or George did it? If not stop demanding proof from other users.

My opinion only

[chrissybot]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.

Hey Pooh. Thats pretty much my theory also. The heart sticker, IMO, was a message to Cindy. JMO(for now:laugh:)

[kitty1182]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.


I think this might be the way it happen too...

[8BellesFan]

8BellesFan, you sound like someone who has an open mind that most level headed people possess. You sound like you'd be a great juror!:thumbsup:

lol, I'd be a terrible juror! I have a bad temper, chain smoke on occasion and am hopelessly addicted to Diet Mountain Dew. Obviously I am unbalanced:blushing:

[girlspell]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.

That sounds about right to me. It was weird with Casey driving all around town with a dead Caylee in the trunk. I thought she was just trying to figure out what to do with her body. That hole in the back yard was probably a clumsy attempt at burying her. She probably thought she might get caught and disgarded that idea.

[?noanswer]

If Casey did not do it, with what we read and heard, who then.......There is no one else with such evidence against them......... So I guess the bad fairy did it or maybe the evil fairy. Or maybe Caylee killed herself. There's the ticket, Caylee killed herself. moo


I think your right. I think she found the duct tape while she was playing with her stickers. She put a sticker on the duct tape and then tore off a piece of duct tape and placed it around her head. It stuck so tight she could not get it off. She smothered herself. I wish I had thought of that idea. I sure hope JB sees it. That will be his aha moment. JMO

[ruth66]

A caller into HNN this past weekend, believes that someone other than Casey killed Caylee. She is from the Carolinas and her name is Elizabeth. Mike Gallanos was dumbstruck.

don't mean to be the ever so suspicious poster here but when you call into these shows it is somewhat anonymous correct? I mean I am RUTH here but maybe not in real life right? Some people like to be on the contrary to everything just to hear their own voice or hear themselves on television. Just an observation....and MOO

[girlspell]

don't mean to be the ever so suspicious poster here but when you call into these shows it is somewhat anonymous correct? I mean I am RUTH here but maybe not in real life right? Some people like to be on the contrary to everything just to hear their own voice or hear themselves on television. Just an observation....and MOO

I heard the call. I thought it was so strange. That person that thought Casey was innocent also thought there was no Zanny either. So...who knows.

[8BellesFan]

don't mean to be the ever so suspicious poster here but when you call into these shows it is somewhat anonymous correct? I mean I am RUTH here but maybe not in real life right? Some people like to be on the contrary to everything just to hear their own voice or hear themselves on television. Just an observation....and MOO

who are you and what have you done with ruth66?

[ConchGirl]

You are so right. I recently re-listened to that hearing. Its amazing what you can hear if you are listening with a particular thought in mind. If I were the prosecution, I would attach a copy of that transcript to my opposition to the COV motion and say we have nothing further your honor. JMO

I like the way you think. :thumbsup:

[sunstar]

I think your right. I think she found the duct tape while she was playing with her stickers. She put a sticker on the duct tape and then tore off a piece of duct tape and placed it around her head. It stuck so tight she could not get it off. She smothered herself. I wish I had thought of that idea. I sure hope JB sees it. That will be his aha moment. JMO

I thought you might be serious until I got to the part I bolded! :D

[Mamie]

Well, I think I said this before but I do feel she is afraid of her parents and I do think there is some story behind this story that we have no seen yet. So how are you asking me to answer a question when I don't have those facts? I think that it's a bit unreasonable particularly when I am repeating over and over again, that this is a hunch, a theory, an idea, a concept. So let's agree to disagree and you can be number 4 on the boards to do that with me today.

Nope, like Casey, I wanna be #1! LOL.:seeya:

[Mimi428]

I see that as just the opposite. These are my observations. Casey does fear her mother for one. She has said that at least once when she was talking to the police. And I think there is substance in that. She also talks of her father and her brother and inappropriate behaviors. I see her cursing and belligerant behavior as a way to fight back. Not as aggessive but as defensive. That is the way I see her. I see this defensive behavior when she knows she can get away with it. She is simply a child acting like a child. I also noticed that she handles fear in a different way than most of us do. By putting on a very indignant front. I have yet to see Cindy cower to anyone. As far as Geo, I am starting to suspect that he is the domineering one and I had posted why a few pages ago. Lee, I see him as being the middle guy and liking that. Playing one against the other which ever suits him at the moment. So I suppose we are viewing things in totally different ways.

So how, out of all the lies Casey told to the police, did you decide that there was truth in her statement that she was afraid of her mother?

I have not seen anything out of Casey yet that shows she has fear of anything. I have seen her look a bit nervous, as one might do when they are in the middle of something unfamiliar, but nothing that I would call fear.

I believe Cindy literally was cowering on the jail visit on 8/14. George has also repeatedly demonstrated the willingness to kowtow & practically kiss the floor for Casey.

I don't see Casey acting like a child - because a child would crap their pants over being questioned by the police, being handcuffed & being locked up. There are spoiled children of every sort who are real good at bullying mommy & daddy - but about the time it sinks into them that they are no longer dealing with mommy & daddy, they get scared witless. Casey, spoiled or not, showed some jaw-dropping nerve with her attempts to keep LE going on a wild goose chase, while she was lying through her teeth about who lived where, what her employment status was, etc. A child would break into tears. A child would express fear. Casey did none of that - she cussed a blue streak.

Also, if Casey was experiencing fear, how do you figure she was able to mask it so well to everyone who was around her, from around June 15-16 until the moment the police arrived after Cindy made the 3rd phone call?

JMO

[FrankieBones1]

He certainly wasn't the only one! :scared:

True that. Dare I say his entire panel and the entire world except for two message board members and Elizabeth from the Carolinas.

[ruth66]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

After the fight between Casey and Cindy, Casey grabbed Caylee and they left the house. Caylee was screaming and crying for Cindy. Casey was already mad at Cindy and had no patience for Caylee and her crying. I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel. I think that Casey ditched Caylee someplace at the house for a short time (in the backyard somewhere), then put her in the blanket, hamper liner, and the trash bag and dumped her eventually. However, I think she did ride around with her in the car for a couple of days before she decided on exactly where to dump her.

I think the duct tape will show her fingerprints and I think the trash bag will as well. I also think that dirt from the back of the car and Casey's shoes will link back to the Anthony house. This is evidence none of us have seen yet but will see once the trial gets underway.

all my own opinion.

Sounds very plausible. I do think Casey had been fantasizing about living in her parents home and them being "gone" but I don't think she had enough gall to pull that one off quite yet. I do believe that it was Casey's anger that cost CAYLEE her life. And we say a very small example of that on the 8/14 jail house video.

JMO

[ConchGirl]

A caller into HNN this past weekend, believes that someone other than Casey killed Caylee. She is from the Carolinas and her name is Elizabeth. Mike Gallanos was dumbstruck.

I think it was Mrs. Todd Not My Real Name Black.
moo

[Cury-us Coyote]

Here's a link to a guy who did some additional research on Todd Black or should I say the elusive Todd whatever his real name is.

http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/02/01/what-is-up-with-todd-black-again/

Maybe they are just laying a record?

[sachae]

Hey Pooh. Thats pretty much my theory also. The heart sticker, IMO, was a message to Cindy. JMO(for now:laugh:)

After reading the replies, I think you are right, in her frame of mind, she did it to get back at her mother, to take away something that she knew would hurt her Mother very much, to be able to take away something that her Mom loved very much!

Good Post Thanks!

[rj1212]

Okay, well if it was "light sarcasm" at best, then I apologize. I guess when you went to the trouble of putting "open mind" in quotes, it seemed a bit more, but yes I do agree that type written words doesn't translate that well in meaning as opposed to actually hearing the words.

Again, sorry if I misread your "open mind" and the thumbs up icon as more than "light sarcasm"

To really know me, you'd have to know that I was using light sarcasm to promote a more thought provoking discussion regarding what an "open mind" really is.

I have a problem with anyone calling what I typed "an attack"...
it's pretty laughable to me and yet, I'm sorry if anyone seriously took it as such. I'm glad that everything is on record here. People can go back and see for themselves.
Thanks though....

[FrankieBones1]

don't mean to be the ever so suspicious poster here but when you call into these shows it is somewhat anonymous correct? I mean I am RUTH here but maybe not in real life right? Some people like to be on the contrary to everything just to hear their own voice or hear themselves on television. Just an observation....and MOO

I agree with you, Ruth. The caller could not have been serious. As a matter of fact, I think she's one of those ****** that hangs out on these boards. Same m.o.

[ConchGirl]

If this is an example of your maturity level, I'll pass in talking to you. But hey, thanks for stopping by! :seeya:

Bolding what I'm addressing. :confused: Pot meet kettle. moo

[cassidy]

Well, I think I said this before but I do feel she is afraid of her parents and I do think there is some story behind this story that we have no seen yet. So how are you asking me to answer a question when I don't have those facts? I think that it's a bit unreasonable particularly when I am repeating over and over again, that this is a hunch, a theory, an idea, a concept. So let's agree to disagree and you can be number 4 on the boards to do that with me today.

Interesting hunch,theory,idea, concept. Casey lived in THEIR house, Casey drove THEIR car,Casey lied to them about having a job and Casey stole THEIR money (on more than one occassion). So...if Casey was so afraid of them all they had to do to put a stop to all of the above would have been to confront her and it would appear that they never did that. I just don't see any of her actions pointing towards fear of her parents. Actually, I see quite the opposite. I see her thumbing her nose at them and almost daring them to do something to her.

JMO
JMO

[kitty1182]

I agree with you, Ruth. The caller could not have been serious. As a matter of fact, I think she's one of those ****** that hangs out on these boards. Same m.o.

I'm from the Carolinas, but my name is not Elizabeth and I do not think Casey is innocent......:laugh:

[CANDYKISSES]

I'm sorry, but I don't follow? I'm going to assume you are talking about Casey, as opposed to Cindy. Of course I agree with you if you are talking about Casey, and if she didn't have her MySpace account as private, but at the same time I know lots of people on these boards that aren't all that computer savvy, and don't even realize. I remember many years ago a person here used her e-mail address as her "Nick" here or at least made it public knowledge.....not realizing that her personal information was attached to that e-mail address.

Recently I was accused of something silly with someone's "color" on the page, since that person had no clue about HTML filters. Of course I forgive that poster's ignorance.

So yes I agree with you, but instead of being upset, you should try to educate those people that are doing such.

Personally if my child ever had a page like MySpace, you'd bet I would have access to it, just like my Uncle has access to his children's pages, eventhough they are "adults" according to the law.

Actually we were referencing Joy Wray's page, (the blond woman who was in on the searches and claims to be married to one of the PI's) who made the claim last night that Cindy was in Tampa and not going to appear on Geraldo. :biggrin:

Now that we're on the same page, I did indeed suggest that if she was going to help out with the Anthony family searches FOR A CHILD, she might entertain the thought of removing photos of her OWN CHILD from her myspace. I believe her child is about 8 years old and there were a few posed pictures from what I remember. Just enough to be enticing to the monsters who prey on children IMOO.

So there ya go. :unsure:

[8BellesFan]

Interesting hunch,theory,idea, concept. Casey lived in THEIR house, Casey drove THEIR car,Casey lied to them about having a job and Casey stole THEIR money (on more than one occassion). So...if Casey was so afraid of them all they had to do to put a stop to all of the above would have been to confront her and it would appear that they never did that. I just don't see any of her actions pointing towards fear of her parents. Actually, I see quite the opposite. I see her thumbing her nose at them and almost daring them to do something to her.

JMO
JMO

and don't forget that Cindy was handing over pocket money despite Casey's fantastic job and the thefts from her family....

[ConchGirl]

Maybe they are just laying a record?

Good one Cury. :thumbsup:

[Lilly12]

You do know that physical evidence such as DNA and fingerprints is Circumstantial Evidence, right?


From what I understand, direct evidence would be an eye witness...... Please someone correct me if I am wrong.......

[Mimi428]

The fact that Casey would take the rap for anyone is ridiculous. The Casey Anthony that I've come to know is beyond selfish! Its all about HER. Sitting in a jail cell without her party dresses and her cellphone is not something she would do for any living soul.

ITA. No way would she have given up on seeing or speaking to TonE if she could have found a way to get out of jail. She would have sold the whole bunch of them right down the river so she could go back to trying to convince him she was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I sure don't believe her definition of living la bella vita was sitting in jail, keeping her mouth shut to protect someone else - or out of fear of someone else.

JMO

[cassidy]

I agree! The parents are afraid of her. They obviously could never handle her - but who could in that situation? She is very disturbed.


JMO

Yep. Very evident in the jailhose conversation. Casey gets mad, they back down. An established pattern.. IMO

[rj1212]

I tend to think that people use key phrases to suppress the person who has a differing a opinion than them.

That technique has been pretty effective for quite some time.

I like having an opinion, and I happen to appreciate those who have one regarding this case. I am angry and saddened over what happened to this little girl. I am angry and I want justice. Justice that is met swiftly after the facts come out about this case in entirety. Thus far, it seems like those closest to Caylee should have cared a little more about her. Is that closed-minded? Am I being close-minded to think that a MAJOR injustice has been done to this little girl, and that people close to the little girl have gone out of their way to lie and cover-up for Casey???

Every doc dump points to more sadness.

"Open mind"???

Forgive me if I am "attacking" for disagreeing with one's "open mind."
Shouldn't it be okay to have emotion regarding this case? Emotion that has been come from the facts of the case thus far?

What is the definition of "open mind"? Seems like it means different things to different people.

[Lilly12]

ITA. As is obvious from our system of justice and the fact that our prisons are full of convicts who murdered, most reasonable people sitting on juries are able to weigh the evidence and reach a conclusion, beyond a reasonable doubt, of a defendant's guilt.

If that were not the case, murderers would be roaming our streets in much greater numbers, and very little justice would ever be served for victims and their families.

Well said. Thanks!

[AlohaRainbow]

Are you referring to June or July? JMO
june - father's day.

[8BellesFan]

I tend to think that people use key phrases to suppress the person who has a differing a opinion than them.

That technique has been pretty effective for quite some time.

I like having an opinion, and I happen to appreciate those who have one regarding this case. I am angry and saddened over what happened to this little girl. I am angry and I want justice. Justice that is met swiftly after the facts come out about this case in entirety. Thus far, it seems like those closest to Caylee should have cared a little more about her. Is that closed-minded? Am I being close-minded to think that a MAJOR injustice has been done to this little girl, and that people close to the little girl have gone out of their way to lie and cover-up for Casey???

Every doc dump points to more sadness.

"Open mind"???

Forgive me if I am "attacking" for disagreeing with one's "open mind."
Shouldn't it be okay to have emotion regarding this case? Emotion that has been come from the facts of the case thus far?

What is the definition of "open mind"? Seems like it means different things to different people.

to me, open mind means considering each fact, weighing it carefully, and then putting in either in the pro column or the con column. right now, my pro Casey column is kinda dusty....

[ruth66]

I heard the call. I thought it was so strange. That person that thought Casey was innocent also thought there was no Zanny either. So...who knows.

See here is where I my head gets all light and starts to spin with Casey and anyone claiming that she is "innocent". She is certainly not innocent...now CAYLEE was innocent but Casey not in her wildest of dreams.....I realize that her not having a job for 2 years and being able to pass that off on her parents, stealing money from family and friends, bedding many many many men, etc...etc.. does not mean she is a murderer. But it also does not make me want to say "Casey" and "innocent" in the same sentence.

JMO

[?noanswer]

june - father's day.


I don't remember anything about KC contacting C on June 15th. The only thing I remember is C picked KC up at TonE's on July 15th. Having said all that, I should have said it when I answered your post by asking you a question. Sorry. JMO

[ruth66]

who are you and what have you done with ruth66?

See I said "might not be"....as in "being a liar does not make a murderer". :thumbsup:

[VC2]

Well, I think I said this before but I do feel she is afraid of her parents and I do think there is some story behind this story that we have no seen yet. So how are you asking me to answer a question when I don't have those facts? I think that it's a bit unreasonable particularly when I am repeating over and over again, that this is a hunch, a theory, an idea, a concept. So let's agree to disagree and you can be number 4 on the boards to do that with me today.

January i agree she is afraid of her parents but i think it is bc she is so emotionally immature that its like a teen who says "omg if my parents find out they will kill me!" and some have run away to avoid facing them, others lie through their teeth etc. Yet in caysee's case it isn't bc she was afraid of disappointing them but bc she didn't want to face the flak she would get.

Unlike many here, i dont think cindy and george "coddled" casey and there were no consequences to what she did. Sure they didn't call the cops on her but imo caysee was very aware of her parents feelings about her behaviors and cindy for sure imo was not silent about it be it a lie or stealing something. Everything i have seen of cindy or heard says she is not going to let something pass be it george or caysee or lee without making really clear what she feels about it.

It is also why i think its easy to understand caysee's decision to get rid of the body and make up a lie even if it was an accident and then go on with her life. She is a sociopath and will not accept even the slightest bit of ppl upset with her no matter the circumstances if a lie will avoid it or tossing her daughters body away will.

I have an open mind on what she is guilty of even though i am certain that she is guilty of something. Just think it could be negligent homicide, accident, premeditated murder 1 or murder 2 and her behavior afterwards would be the same no matter which bc she is far more concerned about being blamed in the slightest way than she is in responsibility be it her parents or the law.

her fear of her parents has more to do with them making her life uncomfortable by being angry than it says anything bad about cindy or george imo

[?noanswer]

See here is where I my head gets all light and starts to spin with Casey and anyone claiming that she is "innocent". She is certainly not innocent...now CAYLEE was innocent but Casey not in her wildest of dreams.....I realize that her not having a job for 2 years and being able to pass that off on her parents, stealing money from family and friends, bedding many many many men, etc...etc.. does not mean she is a murderer. But it also does not make me want to say "Casey" and "innocent" in the same sentence.

JMO



Especially since the Grand Jury was presented with testimony that we haven't seen and they indicted her. JMO

[Sandy]

I still want to know why Cindy pulled out of Geraldo 1/31/2009. She could have helped those of you who think Casey is innocent

[CANDYKISSES]

There's still people who think Casey didn't kill Caylee? Really?
After all of the evidence? The docs? Finally...the deception to kill time...31 days? Casey not showing a care in the world about her daughter...either before the arrests or after for that matter?

I've been following this story since late July. While I respect the opinions of others, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand what happened.

Since late July, virtually EVERYTHING has pointed to the guilt of Casey...is anyone else involved with her? Time will tell.

RJ, while I admit it looks that way with the evidence as we know it, I have trouble believing she killed her child. I guess *I want* to think her negligence in some manner (probably CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE) contributed to the untimely death of Caylee Marie Anthony. What I will never be able to reconcile in my mind is whether the pool played a part and she was chatting on the phone or texting, or possibly leaving her to die in a hot car while she was doing one or both....

But then, why in the world would the family not have convinced her to come clean? I am holding out and waiting to see what kind of psych diagnosis they came up with on Casey too. I have entertained the idea she could suffer from a multiple personality disorder or PTSD which can lead to dissociative disorders IMOO.

The idea she is a sociopath and wanted to kill Caylee just doesn't jive with some of the things we've heard from the beginning. I really want a trial to take place for many reasons, but realize it's in the best interest of the players involved for a plea deal if they can reach one.

AGAIN, JMO period.

Bottom line, no matter what CASEY ANTHONY is responsible for the untimely death of CAYLEE MARIE ANTHONY as far as I am concerned. :angry:

[Neffy]

No it is not off topic, you made a general "observation" about what a "stealth" juror is. Apparently someone that takes the time to look at all the evidence and doesn't budge with what the majority thinks is a "stealth" juror.

Let's see what case is this board on? Do I need to start my posts ON topic of the Casey Anthony case to clarify? I thought that was a given and assumed we'd be talking about this case and the jurors who will preside on this case. If not I'd say take it to open court.

[Mimi428]

My theory on what happened to Caylee on the evening of June 15th:

I think Casey pulled over somewhere and put the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose and kept driving. I think Caylee was suffocated due to the duct tape covering both breathing places. I think she had already died by the time of the video showing Casey pacing the parking lot of the hotel.



<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.

JMO

[5boxersmom]

I still want to know why Cindy pulled out of Geraldo 1/31/2009. She could have helped those of you who think Casey is innocent

Has there been anything said about her maybe being on his show tonight?

[ruth66]

Wow I'm someone on here, and I'm not taking offense. ROFLMAO.

Sorry you feel that was an attack on you.


How's about we just move on from all that...okay....touche everyone got their opinion in on that ....let's talk Casey...:biggrin:

[cassidy]

<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.

JMO


While I don't think that is what happened, IF it did we wouldn't know that she fought or thrashed to get it off. Her little body was in no condition to tell that.

JMO

[chrissybot]

I agree! The parents are afraid of her. They obviously could never handle her - but who could in that situation? She is very disturbed.


JMO

Isn't she though?? You guys remember that text(I think it was), that she sent to TonE saying something like: guess who gets to spend eternity in jail if they never find her.
What kind of thing is that to say?!

[sunstar]

I'm from the Carolinas, but my name is not Elizabeth and I do not think Casey is innocent......:laugh:

Ditto from me! :biggrin:

[Lilly12]

No it is not off topic, you made a general "observation" about what a "stealth" juror is. Apparently someone that takes the time to look at all the evidence and doesn't budge with what the majority thinks is a "stealth" juror.

I think a stealth juror is someone who has made up their mind going in. And nothing and no one is going to change their mind. They don't care about the evidence. That is why I could/would never be a juror on this case, it would take heaven and hell for me to change my mind about Casey. moo

[sunstar]

<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.

JMO
And if any binding was used on her limbs, why would she (Casey) remove that but leave the tape on her face? I think the tape was put over her mouth immediately before she was suffocated or strangled, so she wouldn't be able to scream. MOO

[Balesha]

I think it was premeditated and she did it with chloroform. Do a search for how to make chloroform and you will be convinced that she did not us it to "sedate" Caylee. It's more poison than sedative.

As for the heart sticker, I think she put it there intentially. I'd be willing to bet she painted a picture of a nanny who loved Caylee, but one who was also obsessed with "protecting her at all costs". It's the obsession gone wrong, with the heart sticker as a twisted gesture of love. In One Tree Hill the nanny is obsessed too, and kidnaps a child to "protect" her from her family. I'd love to know how Casey described Zanny to her parents, and I'd be willing to bet that it's as the loving, but obsessed nanny....just like on One Tree Hill. I think that the story about Cindy choking Casey was just that....a story made up by Casey to create a logical reason why Zanny wanted to take Caylee away.

Just my theory!

[CC I See]

Yep. Very evident in the jailhose conversation. Casey gets mad, they back down. An established pattern.. IMO... they back down..... except once and that is why Caylee is dead.That has to play over and over in their heads.

[sunstar]

Isn't she though?? You guys remember that text(I think it was), that she sent to TonE saying something like: guess who gets to spend eternity in jail if they never find her.
What kind of thing is that to say?!

I remember that too and it isn't what somebody would say unless they knew Caylee wasn't going to be found alive. It also seemed like Casey knew there was forensic evidence left behind, like in the car. MOO

[Balesha]

... they back down..... except once and that is why Caylee is dead.That has to play over and over in their heads.

Where would Caylee be had they pursued the fraud charges? Chilling thought.

[ConchGirl]

<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.

JMO

Very interesting. Maybe it was chloroform?

[8BellesFan]

Isn't Lee's girlfriend pregnant? Imagine how Casey will react to her mother when that baby is born. Maybe that will be the aha moment when Casey loses it completely...

[rj1212]

Well can we talk about the evidence.....I don't mind that....

We can talk about Casey....but do you think what Casey looks like, wears, etc in court is all that important to the case? And if so, how?

I tend to think what Casey is wearing has no relevance whatsoever...
the evidence? That's pretty compelling...and interesting.

[Mimi428]

Well can we talk about the evidence.....I don't mind that....

We can talk about Casey....but do you think what Casey looks like, wears, etc in court is all that important to the case? And if so, how?

You have the same questions that I do. I can never figure out what particular importance things like that have to do with the case, except for the instances in which we see such dramatic changes in a person's appearance that could be directly related to things like the stress of the case, etc. Cindy's extreme weight loss, as an example.

JMO

[ConchGirl]

Well can we talk about the evidence?.....I don't mind that....

We can talk about Casey....but do you think what Casey looks like, wears, etc in court is all that important to the case? And if so, how?

Every jury I ever sat on, I did find the demeanor of the defendant to be important. The way they react to certain testimony, whether they are right or left handed, and their facial expression. But what do I know :shrug: jmo

[AlohaRainbow]

I don't remember anything about KC contacting C on June 15th. The only thing I remember is C picked KC up at TonE's on July 15th. Having said all that, I should have said it when I answered your post by asking you a question. Sorry. JMO
np :)
i was answering the other poster's point that s/he thought cindy was the last to be seen with caylee, in which the poster referenced the 15th, i.e. father's day.

i'm still pretty sure i saw something somewhere that indicated casey returned to the home on father's day around 6pm... but i could be mistaken!

[ruth66]

<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.
JMO

Bolding mine:

And that is where I think the chloroform came into play. I believe she chloroformed CAYLEE and put the duct tape over her mouth so that she couldn't scream when she came to. I think Casey may have been so angry she wanted to quiet CAYLEE (maybe in her mind just for a little while) and it all took a rolling turn from there. I do believe it was done in anger, I also think that she wanted to be with ToneE so badly she put CAYLEE on the back burner and thus here we are.....

JMO (which brings several scenarios into play)

[ruth66]

Well can we talk about the evidence?.....I don't mind that....

We can talk about Casey....but do you think what Casey looks like, wears, etc in court is all that important to the case? And if so, how?

I am not sure I have been talking about how Casey looks, looked in court, but point taken.....Let's just not go back and forth with the insults, how's that?:wink:

[ruth66]

Off to watch the superbowl and eat hot wings!! Go Steelers!!! Shhh I am telling my DH that I am pulling for the Cardinals to get his goat!!

Have a good evening all!:wink:

[ConchGirl]

I guess that is why some people are convicted without any evidence?

:shrug:

I'm not attacking you, but seriously......unless a person is left handed and they used a gun or whatever, I don't see how much importance you can glean from them being right or left handed unless it related to the "evidence" of the case.

:shrug:

Being right or left handed does matter when a person is beat up. On this particular case it was very relevant. Many of my fellow jurors said they didn't notice and that they were afraid to make eye contact or look at the defendant. moo

[FrankieBones1]

Has there been anything said about her maybe being on his show tonight?
There was never any mention of a live interview with her as some had thought previously. Geraldo's network said the interview would be this weekend. I'm thinking it was taped long ago and will be shown tonight. I think it's kind of crappy that they would be so vague. Most thought it was going to be aired last night.

[Texas48]

Interesting hunch,theory,idea, concept. Casey lived in THEIR house, Casey drove THEIR car,Casey lied to them about having a job and Casey stole THEIR money (on more than one occassion). So...if Casey was so afraid of them all they had to do to put a stop to all of the above would have been to confront her and it would appear that they never did that. I just don't see any of her actions pointing towards fear of her parents. Actually, I see quite the opposite. I see her thumbing her nose at them and almost daring them to do something to her.

JMO
JMO I very much agree with you Cassidy in the fact the KC was not scared of either one of her parents. For some reason I have the feeling (JMO) that if George and Cindy confronted KC then she could have threatened them by taking Caylee out of their lives and this is what Cindy feared the most. Maybe not so much for George but I do believe Caylee was a big part of Cindy's life.

[FrankieBones1]

This Weekend:
• A new twist in the Casey Anthony case...and the tabloids are running rampant. But we'll separate fact from fiction behind the headlines as this heart-wrenching saga continues
• Plus, Geraldo sits down Casey's mom Cindy Anthony
in an EXCLUSIVE interview

[Pruddennce]

I am going with fear too. That is what I think is holding Casey back from telling what really happened that night. And why Baez is keeping her isolated from her family.

fear of what? she is awaiting a murder 1 trial. isnt that scary enough?

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[WillowInFlight]

I still want to know why Cindy pulled out of Geraldo 1/31/2009. She could have helped those of you who think Casey is innocent

I don't think she ever even planned on appearing. just more hype from GR. IMO

[Pruddennce]

IIRC, George has a sister who still resides in Ohio. The one who they think has 'issues', and I believe they mentioned she was bi-polar.

IF they could sell their house for 179K (the amount the house appraised for in '05), they would only have 60K in equity to squabble over. (per bond hearing)

Under the circumstances I think Cindy would be irate if George doesn't return home upon his discharge from the hospital, even though she now has Lee at home. But who knows, George might take a stand and just refuse to return home for now....in fact his doctors might recommend it to him and Cindy. If this happens Lee might have to make another move himself. :smile:


is Lee actually moved in there? the amended witness list does not have hopespring listed as his residence.

best regards,
Pru

[WillowInFlight]

is Lee actually moved in there? the amended witness list does not have hopespring listed as his residence.

best regards,
Pru

It wouldn't if he moved after, and I think it is only temp, so he may not list that as his main residence.

[Lavenia]

<snipped>

Somewhere in that theory there has to be an explanation of what was preventing Caylee's hands from taking off the duct tape.

The whole problem with the "put duct tape on & leave her to suffocate" theories is that they do not take into consideration that no one, even a child just under 3 years old, is going to sit quietly while they suffocate to death. They will fight with every ounce of their being to NOT suffocate. She would claw with her hands, kick with her feet, throw her body every which way in an attempt to stop what was happening to her.

If Casey killed her by suffocation, she would have had to put in place something that would severely limit Caylee's hands, at the very least. And that still leaves her legs & feet to kick the stuffing out of anything or anyone close to her.

Sorry to be graphic, but people don't just lie still for something like that.

JMO

Hey Mimi and all!

I said the same thing a while back. I wondered if anyone saw any bruising, scratches or other injury on Casey right after the 15-16th. One of the reasons I though bedding would either be found with Caylee or have some evidence of being used in Caylee's death, is because I can see it being used as a method of restraint. As young as Caylee was, if she were not somehow incapacitated or restrained, she would have fought like a tiger, IMO.

[Texas48]

Yep. Very evident in the jailhose conversation. Casey gets mad, they back down. An established pattern.. IMO I saw the same thing you did Cassidy and actually thought the same and then I kept watching them over and over and came to the opinion that Cindy/George possibly felt if they pissed her off then she would REFUSE their visits and I truly believe they were trying to get some kind of info out of KC. When she (KC) kept crying that she was not able to do anything/searches for Caylee if she was sitting in jail.....I kept wanting Cindy to ask her what kind of searches she did before she was arrested....Cindy had already seen the photos of the club parties and all over photos/vidoes and knew the KC had not made the first move to look for this baby...that is why that question was never asked by Cindy or George. jmo

[Mimi428]

Bolding mine:

And that is where I think the chloroform came into play. I believe she chloroformed CAYLEE and put the duct tape over her mouth so that she couldn't scream when she came to. I think Casey may have been so angry she wanted to quiet CAYLEE (maybe in her mind just for a little while) and it all took a rolling turn from there. I do believe it was done in anger, I also think that she wanted to be with ToneE so badly she put CAYLEE on the back burner and thus here we are.....

JMO (which brings several scenarios into play)

I wonder about the chloroform, too.

But I also wonder about no diaper or pull-up evidence being listed as with the remains in the bag. We know from what friends have said that Caylee was not fully potty trained & at times I have contemplated whether that could have come into play during the night of the fight. I think it is possible that Casey left the house in a hurry, as well as in a very angry state. Perhaps she just grabbed up Caylee & Caylee was not wearing shoes at the time. It was summertime, so I can easily believe she may have been barefooted.

Then while in the car, going to who-knows-where, it is possible that Caylee had an accident - & if Casey took off in a hurry it could be that she had no diapers or pull-ups with her. Something like that could have added to her anger at her mother's confronting her about the stealing. Casey may not have had the money on her to buy more diapers or pull-ups - & if she did, she may have been angry at the idea of having to spend that money on something like diapers. In order to get Caylee out of wet &/or dirty diaper/pull-up, she would either have to purchase them or go back home & get some (which I seriously doubt she would have done).

I can also believe that Caylee was very likely wanting to be with her grandparents & not her angry mother. If she was crying or fussing, that could have added fuel to Casey's anger. So she's furious with Cindy, mad at being found out over the stealing incident from her grandmother, in the presence of a child hollaring for anyone BUT her, & with a dirty diaper on & no spare in sight.

Potty training issues have precipitated a lot of bad actions by adults in other cases. That is one of the real strong theories on what set Jeffrey MacDonald into a rage when he slaughtered his entire family. I can see how it could do the same to Casey, because I seriously doubt she was patient & caring towards that aspect of caretaking.

JMO

[rj1212]

lol ... good point! Cindy and her open mind about Casey's guilt ... or would that be her closed mind about Casey's innocence ... or would it be that her mind is open? ... or closed? ... about the guilt of anyone but Casey?

:confused::huh::scared:

Perfect. Just perfect.

[WillowInFlight]

Hey Mimi and all!

I said the same thing a while back. I wondered if anyone saw any bruising, scratches or other injury on Casey right after the 15-16th. One of the reasons I though bedding would either be found with Caylee or have some evidence of being used in Caylee's death, is because I can see it being used as a method of restraint. As young as Caylee was, if she were not somehow incapacitated or restrained, she would have fought like a tiger, IMO.

But would she have? she was only 2 and I am sure in her eyes she trusted Casey with her life. Casey could have been calmly telling her keep quite, while all the while draining the life from her, I don't think a 2 year old has the same instinct as us to fight back. IMO

[Lilly12]

Yep that would be correct. Sorry, did these guys think because there was no eyewitnesses that there wasn't "evidence" against them?

Maybe I wasn't following your whole post.

I believe they were so sure that they left NO evidence. brilliant. They planned it so thorough, if I recall. But, a pair of glasses fell out of the pocket of either Leopold or Loeb. It had a special pin, that could be tracked back one of them. They had brilliant minds. They could have done so much good.

[bchand]

Hey Mimi and all!

I said the same thing a while back. I wondered if anyone saw any bruising, scratches or other injury on Casey right after the 15-16th. One of the reasons I though bedding would either be found with Caylee or have some evidence of being used in Caylee's death, is because I can see it being used as a method of restraint. As young as Caylee was, if she were not somehow incapacitated or restrained, she would have fought like a tiger, IMO.

As awful as it sounds, it wouldn't take much to hold a little 2 yr old under water. I don't know why she put duct tape on her mouth. I hope, in the future, we find out.

[WillowInFlight]

Superbowl time......feel free to discuss among yourselves. :) :)

See you at halftime maybe LOL

Anyway take care, have fun, and be safe. Pe@ce.

I always love when we have others permission. :sneaky:

[rj1212]

I always love when we have others permission. :sneaky:

:scared: I hope you didn't "attack" anyone by being mildly sarcastic...

[Jester]

Hey Mimi and all!

I said the same thing a while back. I wondered if anyone saw any bruising, scratches or other injury on Casey right after the 15-16th. One of the reasons I though bedding would either be found with Caylee or have some evidence of being used in Caylee's death, is because I can see it being used as a method of restraint. As young as Caylee was, if she were not somehow incapacitated or restrained, she would have fought like a tiger, IMO.

Chloroform was used, so maybe there wasn't too much fighting back.

[WillowInFlight]

:scared: I hope you didn't "attack" anyone by being mildly sarcastic...

sending you a PM.

[Lapis]

FWIW, this is the way I think of this. I know (or perhaps should say IMO) a 2+ year old child does not end up in a trash bag/laundry bag with duck tape somewhere in the vicinity of her head in a wooded area without an adult being involved.

Assume Caylee was last seen on June 15 by anyone other than Casey. I think we can assume further that Zanny does not exist.

The first question I ask is how did she get there? The only evidence I have so far is that there is evidence that Caylee was dead in the trunk of Casey's car. (The hair and smell of decomposition) I have no evidence that anyone but Casey had access to that car after June 15. We have no one who says they even rode in the car for that period. Her parents have keys, but the testimony so far is that they did not see Casey exept on the 24th.

Therefore I conclude that Casey was the one who put Caylee in the woods.

Now the more difficult question is how did Caylee end up dead? I start with it was an accident. Somehow Caylee got into something she shouldn't have (medication, the pool, she fell) because someone wasn't watching her properly. If that was the case why not call 911, or someone to help?

What if she is afraid of what people (especially her parents or friends) would think? In this scenario, the duct tape is placed on her after the death to simulate a kidnapping. (It is a cliche kidnapping but I think we can agree that Casey is not the brightest bulb in the box). So now the baby is dead due to an accident, she has staged the kidnapping with the tape and the disposal of the body. Now, why not call the police, your parents, someone to tell them of the kidnapping? If your looking for sympathy or need to be the center of attention this would be the way to go. Even Susan Smith came up with a bogeyman.

What does she do? She continues with her life, telling every one that everything is fine. She weaves an elaborate fantasy life that Caylee is living. She knows at some point she has to come clean. Caylee's birthday is coming up. That is D-Day. She knows that she will never come up with an explanation good enough to satisfy Cindy & George as to why they can't see Caylee on her birthday. (Thus the new password Timer 51 or Timer 55) I think she thought she had more time. But Cindy and fate thwarted her plans. The car gets towed and Cindy tracks her down. She digs in her heels. She's not telling them anything. Lee convinces her she is not going to be able to stall. She tells them the half-baked story she created, never realizing that the police would test her story rather than treat her as the victim.

Why take this approach? She is somehow directly responsible for Caylee's death. This is not a pure accident. Whether she smothered her, suffocated her with the duct tape or locked her in the trunk by accident, that's aggravated child abuse and under Fla law if a child dies due to aggravated child abuse that's murder.

This is just my working theory to date and subject to change without notice.

[rj1212]

sending you a PM.

Uh oh...I love you guys...

[Lavenia]

But would she have? she was only 2 and I am sure in her eyes she trusted Casey with her life. Casey could have been calmly telling her keep quite, while all the while draining the life from her, I don't think a 2 year old has the same instinct as us to fight back. IMO

Even infants will get very combative when they get "air hungry". Watch some hidden camera videos of Munchausen moms trying to asphyxiate their infants in the hospital. It's an animal instinct to fight to breathe. That's what makes even the tiniest, newborn infant move their heads to breathe when their nose is impeded.

[CANDYKISSES]

Well Cindy isn't on trial at this point. She seems to be a topic on here.

I guess some speculate she was somehow involved......

Some may claim she is grieving and under a lot of stress....others think she is "evil" and on the "dark side" and worried about being charged and convicted.

I'd rather give her the benefit and wait until the State charges her, and shows evidence that she is "evil" and on the "dark side"

I would say Cindy did everything she could to bungle the state's case and took her own investigation to a level her husband described as in danger of charges IIRC. :thumbdown: But my biggest problem with her is the very idea she thought nothing of putting other children in danger regarding the pictures of other children (IE the CHUCKIE CHEESE CHILD) to help her continue denying what she knew to be true and the LIES and rewriting of history on herself and Casey.

Can anyone tell me why you believe Cindy asked the detective what Amy's weight on her license was? :confused:

[WillowInFlight]

Even infants will get very combative when they get "air hungry". Watch some hidden camera videos of Munchausen moms trying to asphyxiate their infants in the hospital. It's an animal instinct to fight to breathe. That's what makes even the tiniest, newborn infant move their heads to breathe when their nose is impeded.

Lavenia, I can't even let my mind go there, but you are right. I guess I'm hoping what ever happened poor Caylee didn't suffer, I would like to think that she was drugged and then just went to sleep. Know what I mean?

[Unperson1984]

I very much agree with you Cassidy in the fact the KC was not scared of either one of her parents. For some reason I have the feeling (JMO) that if George and Cindy confronted KC then she could have threatened them by taking Caylee out of their lives and this is what Cindy feared the most. Maybe not so much for George but I do believe Caylee was a big part of Cindy's life.

I've always believed that Casey used George and Cindy's love for Caylee to emotionally blackmail them into putting up with her bad behavior.

[Texas48]

I still want to know why Cindy pulled out of Geraldo 1/31/2009. She could have helped those of you who think Casey is innocent
I still think Cindy is finally taking the advise of her attorney. I never thought she would keep her mouth closed and stay off the "shows" but it looks like someone had finally gotten to her. JMO

[?noanswer]

Well next time don't make a statement about "stealth" jurors.

Pretty simple, you brought it up. :shrug:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SNYI_enUS308US308&q=stealth+juror

"A stealth juror is an ordinary citizen serving on a jury who understands and is not afraid to exercise his right to judge not only the evidence in a case but the very law upon which the prosecution is based. If the law is bad or unfair, he secretly works to acquit any defendant being persecuted for a nonviolent, victimless crime. He must remain undercover because he represents a direct threat to the power of judges and prosecutors. He is the last champion of justice in the American courtroom."


JMO

[Mimi428]

Lavenia, I can't even let my mind go there, but you are right. I guess I'm hoping what ever happened poor Caylee didn't suffer, I would like to think that she was drugged and then just went to sleep. Know what I mean?

I can understand why you don't want to think that she suffered. My only point in bringing up the subject is that if the theory is proposed that duct tape ONLY was placed over her mouth, something, somewhere has to be included to explain why she would not have pulled it off.

Chloroform, hands bound, sedated with meds, thrown in the pool, whatever.

JMO

[Lavenia]

As awful as it sounds, it wouldn't take much to hold a little 2 yr old under water. I don't know why she put duct tape on her mouth. I hope, in the future, we find out.

I don't think it would be as easy as you would think a 2-3 year old is capable of. Just imagine a 2, almost 3 year old having an all out temper tantrum for 3 minutes. They can be almost impossible to physically handle. Now imagine that energy, and more, focused to the power to survive. I would think it would feel like forever.

[chrissybot]

Did we get the results back from Caseys computer that she was using while staying at TonE's?? Did I miss that?? I am wondering what type of searches she did on her computer after Caylee disappeared, & how incriminating(or not).

[CC I See]

Imo, Caylee should have been the priority. She should have been made safe before the A's finally took a stand against Casey (if that's what happened). All the carp swirling around Casey took a front seat to Caylee's safety.
... and I couldn't agree more. That final fight on June 16th must have been frightening for her whether she was present or not the tension must have been thick. A few posters have given the theory that Caylee was medicated to calm her during this time that could have been an overdose and fatal. That does not explain the duct tape unless both were used to keep her quiet and out of the way. Perhaps Casey did sneak in later to take her out of the house and use the duct tape to keep her quiet. She could have axfixiated.

[happygert]

... they back down..... except once and that is why Caylee is dead.That has to play over and over in their heads.

I think that was a rare occasion that cindy backed down..I dont think that's how it was at home..I tend to believe cindy would have followed casey thru the house...At the jail however cindy couldn't follow so she backed down so casey wouldn't get up and leave..cindy knew cameras rolling ....

[rj1212]

If Caylee was heavily sedated by chloroform, then thrown into the pool, would that be a plausible attempt by Casey to initially claim it was an accident? Remember, we're talking about Casey Anthony here...not the brightest bulb in the bunch.

[bchand]

I don't think it would be as easy as you would think a 2-3 year old is capable of. Just imagine a 2, almost 3 year old having an all out temper tantrum for 3 minutes. They can be almost impossible to physically handle. Now imagine that energy, and more, focused to the power to survive. I would think it would feel like forever.

Not if the poor little thing couldn't even swim. There's no way she could even try and protect herself.

eta: Lapis - not quoting your post as per CW but it makes alot of sense.

We can only wonder what was next if the car hadn't been found? She'd just tell Cindy that her and "Jeff" are living happily ever after somewhere with Caylee?

[?noanswer]

There was never any mention of a live interview with her as some had thought previously. Geraldo's network said the interview would be this weekend. I'm thinking it was taped long ago and will be shown tonight. I think it's kind of crappy that they would be so vague. Most thought it was going to be aired last night.

I just looked at GR web page. It does not have a date of anykind on it. I'm wondering if that information about Cindy is not old. The page looks kinda unkept. JMO

[rj1212]

I don't think it would be as easy as you would think a 2-3 year old is capable of. Just imagine a 2, almost 3 year old having an all out temper tantrum for 3 minutes. They can be almost impossible to physically handle. Now imagine that energy, and more, focused to the power to survive. I would think it would feel like forever.

Answer Lavenia??? Drugs. Can you say chloroform? Or some other drug.

[ConchGirl]

I wonder about the chloroform, too.

But I also wonder about no diaper or pull-up evidence being listed as with the remains in the bag. We know from what friends have said that Caylee was not fully potty trained & at times I have contemplated whether that could have come into play during the night of the fight. I think it is possible that Casey left the house in a hurry, as well as in a very angry state. Perhaps she just grabbed up Caylee & Caylee was not wearing shoes at the time. It was summertime, so I can easily believe she may have been barefooted.

Then while in the car, going to who-knows-where, it is possible that Caylee had an accident - & if Casey took off in a hurry it could be that she had no diapers or pull-ups with her. Something like that could have added to her anger at her mother's confronting her about the stealing. Casey may not have had the money on her to buy more diapers or pull-ups - & if she did, she may have been angry at the idea of having to spend that money on something like diapers. In order to get Caylee out of wet &/or dirty diaper/pull-up, she would either have to purchase them or go back home & get some (which I seriously doubt she would have done).

I can also believe that Caylee was very likely wanting to be with her grandparents & not her angry mother. If she was crying or fussing, that could have added fuel to Casey's anger. So she's furious with Cindy, mad at being found out over the stealing incident from her grandmother, in the presence of a child hollaring for anyone BUT her, & with a dirty diaper on & no spare in sight.

Potty training issues have precipitated a lot of bad actions by adults in other cases. That is one of the real strong theories on what set Jeffrey MacDonald into a rage when he slaughtered his entire family. I can see how it could do the same to Casey, because I seriously doubt she was patient & caring towards that aspect of caretaking.

JMO

Very interesting scenario. The lack of shoes could explain Casey saying the last time she talked to Caylee she talked about her shoes and her book. She was probably crying for those things as Casey was in a rage and crying for Cindy. Just a thought. moo

[Lavenia]

Lavenia, I can't even let my mind go there, but you are right. I guess I'm hoping what ever happened poor Caylee didn't suffer, I would like to think that she was drugged and then just went to sleep. Know what I mean?

Oh gosh yes, I know what you mean! I certainly hope this was the case. Many people don't think of "smothering" as a violent death, but it is, IMO. I almost drowned when I was 20, and the fear and struggle was awesome. I realize Caylee was young but that's worse to me. The way I think of it was when I was about her age, I was scared of the "guy under my bed that wanted to grab my feet when I got out of bed". I can remember jumping as far off of my bed as possible to get out of bed and making a running jump to get in bed to keep him from getting me. I imagine the panic if he did. :(

[rj1212]

There are only so many reasons for using chloroform...


Sedating for sleep, surgery, or sex.


Sorry...but seriously. What is the reason for having chloroform???

[?noanswer]

I very much agree with you Cassidy in the fact the KC was not scared of either one of her parents. For some reason I have the feeling (JMO) that if George and Cindy confronted KC then she could have threatened them by taking Caylee out of their lives and this is what Cindy feared the most. Maybe not so much for George but I do believe Caylee was a big part of Cindy's life.

Everytime I think of how KC looked in that 8-14 interview, I believe she went into a mad rage and killed Caylee. I don't know how she did it, but I do believe she did it. It does kinda surprise me that there was no evidence of broken bones, etc. I could see her killing her the way "Baby Grace" was killed, ie KC throwing her across the room. But the evidence doesn't show any broken bones. JMO

[Lavenia]

Answer Lavenia??? Drugs. Can you say chloroform? Or some other drug.

That's the one are that I'm really not sold on, at all. I'm going to be a really hard sell on the chloroform theory. Another drug, I accept, but I'm very skeptical about the chloroform.

[cassidy]

... they back down..... except once and that is why Caylee is dead.That has to play over and over in their heads.


They backed down then too., Casey got mad and left with Caylee and they let her go, without a fight. THAT has to play over and over in their heads.

JMO

[rj1212]

That's the one are that I'm really not sold on, at all. I'm going to be a really hard sell on the chloroform theory. Another drug, I accept, but I'm very skeptical about the chloroform.

Right...I understand your sentiment. But why was chloroform found in the trunk, with evidence of the corpse? And there was large amounts found.

[Lavenia]

Not if the poor little thing couldn't even swim. There's no way she could even try and protect herself.

eta: Lapis - not quoting your post as per CW but it makes alot of sense.

We can only wonder what was next if the car hadn't been found? She'd just tell Cindy that her and "Jeff" are living happily ever after somewhere with Caylee?

I don't think she (Caylee) could have done anything that would have made a difference, like swim, (although even if she were an Olympic swimmer she couldn't survive a murderous mother 3-4 times her size) but I think she would have fought to rise above the surface and to get her mom's hands off of her. She also most likely would have vomited and voided her bowels into the water (if drowning were the cause.)

[Susie419]

OMG Willow is that ever true. But you have to ask, or at least I do. Where did she learn how to do that? From her mother. I think all four of these people are capable of murder. I also think that all four of them have something they are hiding. I also feel that it is very possible that Casey is sitting in jail right now covering up for one of her family members because she is afraid. She comes off with that smack-her-in-the-face attitude, yeah, she also has something about her that just rubs people the wrong way but think of it this way. If you were covering up for your parents in a crime, and they are saying nothing and letting you rot in jail, and you know you are innocent but can't say anything for whatever the reason is, how do you carry yourself. I would be indignant. I know I would. And this is how I see Casey right now. And this is one of the things that tells me not to jump too quickly to conclusions.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
:ohmy:You honestly have reasonable doubt that Casey is "covering up for someone else who killed Caylee?" I can't honestly wrap my brain around your theory, in no way!
I cannot imagine that she would be sitting there night after night , missing out on all the partying, boozing, funning,dancing in the night clubs while "covering up and remaining mum" for the real killer!
IMO she is a total narcissistic sociopath and thinks of herself ONLY!
She would not be so selfless , she would throw the first one she could "under the bus" if she were innocent.
I believe she was angry at being treated badly by Cindy, and thought, "I'll show her" and took Caylee and unleashed the anger on that poor baby(did you notice how much Caylee looks like Cindy?)
She was killing Cindy, in a sense!
She became enraged, and when she came to herself again, she realized what she had done.In a kneejerk reaction, hurriedly tried to dispose of the body, first in the yard by burial, that was too difficult, so she drove away after packing her up in the blankey, garbage bag and laundry bag, ( first she taped her mouth to keep her quiet and put the heart sticker on it for shock value to Cindy(look what you made me do mommy) and for 30 days she dodged Cindy's persistent attempts to ask her "where is Caylee" , just decided to blow her off and never go home again, hiding out from Cindy! When Cindy found her, she wanted Caylee, Casey could not produce a "dead baby" , and Cindy threatened with the " I've given you 30 days statement" and she called police!
I just cannot fathom Casey taking the rapp for anyone, and sitting under her blankets reading the bible , missing out on life for anyone.
IMO, she did it! Nothing could make me believe otherwise.:mad:
However, I respect your take on things, and realize we all have opinions.
As for George, poor man has been mentally abused in that household for years, Caylee was the only one who validated him and loved him unconditionally. He is taking this the hardest, JMHO.
Peace, out....

[WillowInFlight]

Oh gosh yes, I know what you mean! I certainly hope this was the case. Many people don't think of "smothering" as a violent death, but it is, IMO. I almost drowned when I was 20, and the fear and struggle was awesome. I realize Caylee was young but that's worse to me. The way I think of it was when I was about her age, I was scared of the "guy under my bed that wanted to grab my feet when I got out of bed". I can remember jumping as far off of my bed as possible to get out of bed and making a running jump to get in bed to keep him from getting me. I imagine the panic if he did. :(

I remember when I was younger being locked in a toy box and to this day I can still feel that panic. I can't even go on an elevator. But I do remember fighting like the dickens to get out, now grant it I was a lot older than 2. No 2 year should have to ever feel fear.:crying:

[Lavenia]

Right...I understand your sentiment. But why was chloroform found in the trunk, with evidence of the corpse? And there was large amounts found.

As far as I can tell, NG is the only one who says the car was "saturated" with chloroform or even that it was a large amount. It's my understanding that there was a trace amount on one test and negative on another test (air samples). I also believe there are valid reasons for a false positive, like off-gassing from the components of the car or the laundry products.

[Texas48]

They backed down then too., Casey got mad and left with Caylee and they let her go, without a fight. THAT has to play over and over in their heads.

JMO Is this not the same time Cindy informed KC that she was going to try and get custody of Caylee? From what we all have learned about this family there was some type of hate/love relationship between KC and Cindy. From all the jailhouse tapes it is easy to see that KC wanted/wants to be #1 in everyone life. She even stated all anyone cared about was Caylee and findiing Caylee. What type of person much less a MOTHER of missing baby would not want everyone to put FIRST......anyone but KC. She was very upset with this fact and made it clear. All the jailhouse tapes are very telling IMO...

[Lapis]

Good working theory, Lapis. Common sense and logic ... what a concept. :thumbup:

Sometimes when you get bogged down in the details and try to make every little fact fit and everyone a villan you miss the forest for the trees. JMO

[Lavenia]

I remember when I was younger being locked in a toy box and to this day I can still feel that panic. I can't even go on an elevator. But I do remember fighting like the dickens to get out, now grant it I was a lot older than 2. No 2 year should have to ever feel fear.:crying:

Right, and that was probably fear only. Imagine that fear plus the REAL inability to breathe combined. Ugh.

[cassidy]

Imo, Caylee should have been the priority. She should have been made safe before the A's finally took a stand against Casey (if that's what happened). All the carp swirling around Casey took a front seat to Caylee's safety.

I dont think in their wildest dreams they thought that Casey would ever hurt Caylee. Although I cannot justify what "allowed" them to watch Casey leave with Caylee knowing she had no place to stay, no money and no job. IMO it would not have been difficult to track Casey down, but they didn't appear to have done that until AFTER they found the car and it smelled like death. Even then, they were NOT concerned about Casey's safety or Caylee's. Cindy found Casey at TonE's and left without mentioning Caylee or her whereabouts ONCE. That's just plain bizarre to me.

JMO

[Mamie]

Uh oh...I love you guys...

...........LMAO, rj!

[bchand]

I don't think she (Caylee) could have done anything that would have made a difference, like swim, (although even if she were an Olympic swimmer she couldn't survive a murderous mother 3-4 times her size) but I think she would have fought to rise above the surface and to get her mom's hands off of her. She also most likely would have vomited and voided her bowels into the water (if drowning were the cause.)

ugh but then there would be evidence of that in the pool. I guess I was hoping that would be the least horrible way to die but cholorform would at least knock her out first.

I hope we learn the true story someday and the monster stays in jail forever.

[?noanswer]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:ohmy:You honestly have reasonable doubt that Casey is "covering up for someone else who killed Caylee?" I can't honestly wrap my brain around your theory, in no way!
I cannot imagine that she would be sitting there night after night , missing out on all the partying, boozing, funning,dancing in the night clubs while "covering up and remaining mum" for the real killer!
IMO she is a total narcissistic sociopath and thinks of herself ONLY!
She would not be so selfless , she would throw the first one she could "under the bus" if she were innocent.
I believe she was angry at being treated badly by Cindy, and thought, "I'll show her" and took Caylee and unleashed the anger on that poor baby(did you notice how much Caylee looks like Cindy?)
She was killing Cindy, in a sense!
She became enraged, and when she came to herself again, she realized what she had done.In a kneejerk reaction, hurriedly tried to dispose of the body, first in the yard by burial, that was too difficult, so she drove away after packing her up in the blankey, garbage bag and laundry bag, ( first she taped her mouth to keep her quiet and put the heart sticker on it for shock value to Cindy(look what you made me do mommy) and for 30 days she dodged Cindy's persistent attempts to ask her "where is Caylee" , just decided to blow her off and never go home again, hiding out from Cindy! When Cindy found her, she wanted Caylee, Casey could not produce a "dead baby" , and Cindy threatened with the " I've given you 30 days statement" and she called police!
I just cannot fathom Casey taking the rapp for anyone, and sitting under her blankets reading the bible , missing out on life for anyone.
IMO, she did it! Nothing could make me believe otherwise.:mad:
However, I respect your take on things, and realize we all have opinions.
As for George, poor man has been mentally abused in that household for years, Caylee was the only one who validated him and loved him unconditionally. He is taking this the hardest, JMHO.
Peace, out....

I agree with what you said. Also, KC would love the attention she would get from being a victim that lost her only daughter. She would never take the fall for someone else. JMO

[?noanswer]

Sometimes when you get bogged down in the details and try to make every little fact fit and everyone a villan you miss the forest for the trees. JMO


I agree. We poster are trying to fit everything into the equasion. We all need to sit back and take a simple look. Disregard the LPs, the talking heads & guests, and the media spin by the attorneys. Look at the evidence that has been released. The answer would become very clear. JMO

[WillowInFlight]

ugh but then there would be evidence of that in the pool. I guess I was hoping that would be the least horrible way to die but cholorform would at least knock her out first.

I hope we learn the true story someday and the monster stays in jail forever.

I have no doubt she will spend life in prison. Why do men watch football when all they do is yell at the T.V.? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Lavenia]

ugh but then there would be evidence of that in the pool. I guess I was hoping that would be the least horrible way to die but cholorform would at least knock her out first.

I hope we learn the true story someday and the monster stays in jail forever.

Opps, I thought we were talking the tub. I wasn't thinking about the pool but you're right, anything like that would have been detected. (I discarded the pool simply because Cindy seemed to want to involve it. What she says makes me think the opposite, lol.)

I so hope we do learn the real story. I think.

[Pat]

As far as I can tell, NG is the only one who says the car was "saturated" with chloroform or even that it was a large amount. It's my understanding that there was a trace amount on one test and negative on another test (air samples). -snip-.

Thanks for this info. I wasn't following the case closely at the time and have been under the impression there was a fairly large amount found. Which, in turn, made me wonder if Caylee was regularly sedated.

Why did LE test for chloroform in the first place? Was it because of the computer searches?

TIA

[Balesha]

Right...I understand your sentiment. But why was chloroform found in the trunk, with evidence of the corpse? And there was large amounts found.

I think she killed her with chloroform too. Any evidence of her buying ice? You would need ice to make the chloroform.

[Lavenia]

Thanks for this info. I wasn't following the case closely at the time and have been under the impression there was a fairly large amount found. Which, in turn, made me wonder if Caylee was regularly sedated.

Why did LE test for chloroform in the first place? Was it because of the computer searches?

TIA

I believe it was the computer searches, Pat.

[ConchGirl]

It sure is nice on this board tonight. :biggrin: Thank God for football.

[?noanswer]

Opps, I thought we were talking the tub. I wasn't thinking about the pool but you're right, anything like that would have been detected. (I discarded the pool simply because Cindy seemed to want to involve it. What she says makes me think the opposite, lol.)

I so hope we do learn the real story. I think.


I will not be surprised if we never know what actually happened beyond the fact that Caylee is dead and where she was found. LE will lay out the evidence and most likely give a sceniaro as to what happened. But KC will never tell what happened.

JMO

[WillowInFlight]

I was mildly sarcastic a while back and called racist. That's why I don't spend much time on these boards anymore. It's okay my friend, it's not illegal to be mildly sarcastic. This MB needs to lighten up a little. Watch - I'll get bashed for that - LOL.

Oh no bashing from me friend. being called a racist is a strong accusation. :ohmy:

[?noanswer]

It sure is nice on this board tonight. :biggrin: Thank God for football.

Yea, all those football loving spouses are always causing trouble!!!! JMO

[bchand]

I have no doubt she will spend life in prison. Why do men watch football when all they do is yell at the T.V.? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

lol No yelling around here. We don't care who wins since the Eagles are out of it.

Thanks to all those who bit the bullet last night and kept an eye on Geraldo. You all deserve a trophy or something.

[Pruddennce]

Lee convinces her she is not going to be able to stall. She tells them the half-baked story she created, never realizing that the police would test her story rather than treat her as the victim.

Why take this approach? She is somehow directly responsible for Caylee's death. This is not a pure accident. Whether she smothered her, suffocated her with the duct tape or locked her in the trunk by accident, that's aggravated child abuse and under Fla law if a child dies due to aggravated child abuse that's murder.

This is just my working theory to date and subject to change without notice.

respectfully snipped....


thank you for your comprehensive post, Lapis.

one thing that would bring this case closer to 'who did the deed' is the absolute honesty of her parents: what were the circumstances surrounding her departure from the home.

if it was an ordinary day, she was due back at the house at some point.

GA's statement to LE: it was an ordinary day, she left for work, would be coming home late OR the next morning with Caylee.

Cindy's statement to the press, LKL:

http://wdbo.com/news/08_0801_caylee_cindyonlarrykinglive.html

Anthony: Well, a little background, Casey had gone on an extended trip, kind of trying to figure out -- she's 22. We were talking about when it might be the right time for her and Caylee to move out. Her trip just kept getting extended and extended, which was really not a red flag, I mean, the trip itself. There would be a few days at a time that she would go and stay with friends. She went from a couple different friends, and I never got a chance to speak with Caylee during that time.

????

the above is exactly what LE was referring to when they said to Cindy: YOU ARE CHANGING YOUR STORY. You are going out to the press and 'changing things'.

LE needed to know the truth in order to investigate this case properly. An ordinary day and a sudden departure are two different things.

I use the term sudden because she did not pack any bags for herself or for Caylee.

GA told LE a story: ordinary day, she was expected home.
CA told LE the same story but then she changed it for Larry King. her departure was a planned event that simply got extended.

her parents are the only witnesses as to her departure, as Cindy had Caylee that day, and ultimately Casey left with Caylee. well, GA, Im suspect of his return home that nite, June 15th, "almost positive he saw her car in the driveweay, and 'being led to believe Casey and caylee were in the home' ??????

they should have told the truth but that would mean providing somewhat of a motive for the 'missing status' of their grandchild.

they knew that, so they lied.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[Pag Boi]

Can anyone tell me why you believe Cindy asked the detective what Amy's weight on her license was? :confused:

Cindy didn't want to be the fattest one in the crowd :shrug:

Cindy needed an ID to clear security at all the airports Zanny & Caylee were flying thru?

[WillowInFlight]

I think the chloroform evidence came by way of the decomp air tests conducted at the Body Farm. Then LE knew to see if the term chloroform had been searched on the computer.

Which could have been searched to use on someone other than Caylee. IMO

[Pat]

I believe it was the computer searches, Pat.


At this point in time, I feel as you posted...that this was originally an accident, not premeditated murder.

I simply do not understand why Baez didn't accept a plea deal. According to what we've heard (and it isn't much) it sounds like the State prosecutors are pretty confident they not only have a strong case, but that Casey acted alone and they can prove it.

Will the sentencing phase offer anything other than LWOP (life, w/parole) or is that offer gone?

TIA

[Lavenia]

I think the chloroform evidence came by way of the decomp air tests conducted at the Body Farm. Then LE knew to see if the term chloroform had been searched on the computer.

You think? I can't imagine that chloroform is a routine test. Don't tell me we have to look this up, lol.

ETA: Man, I'm argumentative tonight! Knock it off me! :punch:

[cassidy]

lol No yelling around here. We don't care who wins since the Eagles are out of it.

Thanks to all those who bit the bullet last night and kept an eye on Geraldo. You all deserve a trophy or something.

LOL!! I live in a house full of Steelers fans! Quiet here though, they all headed to my duaghters to watch the game. I wasn't invited because I haven't watched a single game this year (they are superstitious LOL). They think I am being "punished"...don't tell them I'm not :)

And I add mythanks to those who watched Geraldo..you all must have stomachs of steel :)

[Lapis]

I too believe that there was an argument that night. I think that was a pattern in that house. I think she left with Caylee as she had in the past. She then wouldn't let her parents see her, as she has in the past (thus Lee's question is this like before?) That's why I don't think the family was all that worried about the length of time that went by. When they found the car it provided a catalyst for them to demand to see Caylee. Thus Cindy's relative calm on the first few calls. JMO

[Susie419]

I agree with what you said. Also, KC would love the attention she would get from being a victim that lost her only daughter. She would never take the fall for someone else. JMO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A good defense team could plea "temp insanity" using my post above as theory, Cindy drove her away, Cindy made her do it in a moment of rage and jealousy!! Imo, that wouldhave/could have been her ONLY out from first degree homicide.

[WillowInFlight]

LOL!! I live in a house full of Steelers fans! Quiet here though, they all headed to my duaghters to watch the game. I wasn't invited because I haven't watched a single game this year (they are superstitious LOL). They think I am being "punished"...don't tell them I'm not :)

And I add mythanks to those who watched Geraldo..you all must have stomachs of steel :)

Geraldo is not very good at what he does, I was thinking very early this morning while watching, his sentences are too broken up, he looks like he looses his train of thought. I'm the type, say what you have to say, ask what you have to ask and be quick about it. :laugh:

[Facinated]

..... snipped for space....

What does she do? She continues with her life, telling every one that everything is fine. She weaves an elaborate fantasy life that Caylee is living. She knows at some point she has to come clean. Caylee's birthday is coming up. That is D-Day. She knows that she will never come up with an explanation good enough to satisfy Cindy & George as to why they can't see Caylee on her birthday. (Thus the new password Timer 51 or Timer 55) I think she thought she had more time. But Cindy and fate thwarted her plans. The car gets towed and Cindy tracks her down. She digs in her heels. She's not telling them anything. Lee convinces her she is not going to be able to stall. She tells them the half-baked story she created, never realizing that the police would test her story rather than treat her as the victim.

Why take this approach? She is somehow directly responsible for Caylee's death. This is not a pure accident. Whether she smothered her, suffocated her with the duct tape or locked her in the trunk by accident, that's aggravated child abuse and under Fla law if a child dies due to aggravated child abuse that's murder.

This is just my working theory to date and subject to change without notice.


:thumbsup: Well said! This is exactly what I have been thinking all along, what a tangled web she wove!!

[AlohaRainbow]

FWIW, this is the way I think of this. I know (or perhaps should say IMO) a 2+ year old child does not end up in a trash bag/laundry bag with duck tape somewhere in the vicinity of her head in a wooded area without an adult being involved.
*snip*
Why take this approach? She is somehow directly responsible for Caylee's death. This is not a pure accident. Whether she smothered her, suffocated her with the duct tape or locked her in the trunk by accident, that's aggravated child abuse and under Fla law if a child dies due to aggravated child abuse that's murder.

This is just my working theory to date and subject to change without notice.
excellent anaylsis of the facts and evidence that we know so far. :smile:

[?noanswer]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A good defense team could plea "temp insanity" using my post above as theory, Cindy drove her away, Cindy made her do it in a moment of rage and jealousy!! Imo, that wouldhave/could have been her ONLY out from first degree homicide.


Operative word "good defense team". JMO

[Unperson1984]

As far as I can tell, NG is the only one who says the car was "saturated" with chloroform or even that it was a large amount. It's my understanding that there was a trace amount on one test and negative on another test (air samples). I also believe there are valid reasons for a false positive, like off-gassing from the components of the car or the laundry products.


I agree with you about the chloroform. Why would Casey go through all the trouble of making homemade chloroform when a bottle of Benadryl would work just as well.

And despite Grace’s histrionics, many cleaning products can give a false positive for chloroform.

[Pat]

-snip-

Thanks to all those who bit the bullet last night and kept an eye on Geraldo. You all deserve a trophy or something.

That's the first time I've watched Geraldo in...well...I can't remember the last time. :laugh: I watched last night because I was positive Cindy wouldn't be there.

LKB didn't do well. I understood her reference to the duct tape, fingerprint information source, and People Magazine, but I don't think most people did because she mangled her sentence. I do the same thing, and that's why I'd never go on TV. :laugh:

[CANDYKISSES]

Cindy didn't want to be the fattest one in the crowd :shrug:

Cindy needed an ID to clear security at all the airports Zanny & Caylee were flying thru?

Oh dear, I think you're being adversarial and combative too.

Are you attacking me? <winkinatcha>:scared:

I can hardly read some of these posts just imagining what that sweet child must have endured in her last moments. Reading Willow, Mimi and Lavenia tonite has me clutching my throat. :crying:

PRU, you are correct as to why the changing stories. If only they had started out with the truth, I think everyone would have been much further along in the horrible process of grief IMOO.

[?noanswer]

I so agree with this, Pru. It seems they prioritized "family secrets" or their image over finding Caylee. I can't come up with another reason why they would lie to investigators about the circumstances under which Casey left the home.

I think they realized very early that Caylee was most likely deceased and that KC was involved; therefore they went into "protect KC" mode. JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

I was not aware that Casey took off with Caylee in the past. I assumed Caylee always slept home in her grandmas house , in her own bed. I don't remember anything about Casey keeping Caylee away for a period of time. gogo

Gogo, I think the first interview with a coworker, maybe Debbie, was addressing Casey keeping Caylee from Cindy. Maybe her birthday week - June 5th, but we have to remember that was really all a mess due to the initial wrong date of June 9th as last seen. All of these things tend to present problems for OCSD while they are trying to do their job IMO.

From what I see, each time the story changed, they would have to go back and change the puzzle. AGAIN, JMO.:sad: All the while, if you believe things to be as presented, poor Caylee was laying not five minutes from the house in a trash bag. :crying:

[Lapis]

I so agree with this, Pru. It seems they prioritized "family secrets" or their image over finding Caylee. I can't come up with another reason why they would lie to investigators about the circumstances under which Casey left the home.

I think at this point they knew LE already believed that Casey was responsible. The Anthonys just couldn't believe that she could be. They were afraid that that would just put the nail in Casey's coffin. They desperately wanted to believe that Caylee was still alive and wanted LE to continue to look for a live Caylee. The Anthonys couldn't believe that she wouldn't fess up if she knew where Caylee was. They were afraid that LE would just say she's dead and we're not going to look anymore. JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

I think they realized very early that Caylee was most likely deceased and that KC was involved; therefore they went into "protect KC" mode. JMO

Oh ITA with that, and can't remember when Cindy said she had already lost one and didn't want to lose another......:sad:

[CANDYKISSES]

I think at this point they knew LE already believed that Casey was responsible. The Anthonys just couldn't believe that she could be. They were afraid that that would just put the nail in Casey's coffin. They desperately wanted to believe that Caylee was still alive and wanted LE to continue to look for a live Caylee. The Anthonys couldn't believe that she wouldn't fess up if she knew where Caylee was. They were afraid that LE would just say she's dead and we're not going to look anymore. JMO

Yet Cindy fought so hard about people looking for a deceased child when thousands were offering. That puts my mind back at both of them knowing in their head and heart, but trying to save Casey. If they never found Caylee or at least not until after a trial, just maybe Casey would walk while Cindy was claiming to have all these people who just talked to Caylee at various places and George was claiming to have been watching the kidnappers.

AYE AYE AYE....:scared: JMO

[VC2]

I agree with you about the chloroform. Why would Casey go through all the trouble of making homemade chloroform when a bottle of Benadryl would work just as well.

And despite Grace’s histrionics, many cleaning products can give a false positive for chloroform.

Agreed. There is also naturally occuring positive results in dead bodies, a tiny amount. IIRC one test showed that there was more than would be normal while another did not.

I just cannot envision casey going to the effort to make chloroform especially when not only benadryl is available but prescription sedatives either in someones bathroom cupboard or on the street. She strikes me as bone lazy.

No idea why she was looking it up, could be to find info of the band by the name, could be she was curious after seeing b/f's poster, all number of reasons. heck she could have thought about it to use on a guy she wanted but couldn't get given the poster. She could have thought about using it too but i suspect it is less important than the news makes it.

jmo

[Lavenia]

Couldn't they have discovered it by accident, more or less? Wasn't the drill to measure all the odors from the air sample, and ID them? Chloroform would've been one of them, right?

Usually tests like that are measured against a known sample as the possibilities are as endless as the substances in the world. For instance, drug testing in urine will pick up specific drugs, like amphetamines, THC, PCP, opiates, etc, but it wouldn't for example, say this person has tylenol or a high blood pressure medication as a routine. Toxicology tests in autopsies don't check for every possible thing, for example. Often they have to first have a suspicion of a particular substance, THEN check it out. In most instances they are testing the more common and likely substances and I'm not so sure chloroform would be one. May be though. :shrug:

[Pag Boi]

Oh dear, I think you're being adversarial and combative too.

Are you attacking me? <winkinatcha>:scared:

I can hardly read some of these posts just imagining what that sweet child must have endured in her last moments. Reading Willow, Mimi and Lavenia tonite has me clutching my throat. :crying:

PRU, you are correct as to why the changing stories. If only they had started out with the truth, I think everyone would have been much further along in the horrible process of grief IMOO.

Why do you think Cindy asked about Amy's weight?

Sorry my humor failed. The subject matter is so depressing.

Caylee was absolutely gorgeous. Those big brown eyes melt my heart.

Lavenia will usually lift your heart :wub:

[WillowInFlight]

Oh ITA with that, and can't remember when Cindy said she had already lost one and didn't want to lose another......:sad:

I always wondered why Cindy wrote on her MySpace in early July, but didn't actively try and track Casey down. not that, that would have saved Caylee's life, she was gone by then. but the search could have started earlier..

[Mamie]

I think they realized very early that Caylee was most likely deceased and that KC was involved; therefore they went into "protect KC" mode. JMO


IMO, you are correct! How could they NOT REALIZE that? I mean if your grandchild were missing for 31 days and you had to go retrieve your daughter at some guy's apartment to even find that out, and earlier you had smelled decomp in the trunk of the car you'd let your daughter use which you had to go get from a tow company yard, of course you're going to come to that conclusion. You being a nurse and grandpa being an ex homicide cop, both know those smells and they are not easily forgotten. So okay, what now? You think that maybe your daughter had someone else's decomposing body in the trunk of the car? Nope, I'm thinking that you're thinking it must be your missing grandchild, atleast that's where your mind would go first. Not to say that you couldn't be swayed (temporarily) from that by listening to Casey's story about the nanny and the kidnapping, but what about that smell???? Just who does it belong to????? JMO

[Daffodil]

Sometimes when you get bogged down in the details and try to make every little fact fit and everyone a villan you miss the forest for the trees. JMO

What a very good post.

[nana6]

I would l ove to know if the whole time that Casey was gone with Caylee if Lee heard from Casey. That was a pretty long time for the two of them not to be in touch imo. We have heard from the get go how close the two of them were and I would think that G and C would have gotten ahold of Lee and asked him if he had heard from Casey, I as a grandmother of 6 who are all under 5 years of age would be frantic.

[steffaroob4]

lol No yelling around here. We don't care who wins since the Eagles are out of it.

Thanks to all those who bit the bullet last night and kept an eye on Geraldo. You all deserve a trophy or something.

Good grief, I sure hope he has something tonight.

We are winning!!!:thumbsup:

[Lavenia]

Why do you think Cindy asked about Amy's weight?

Sorry my humor failed. The subject matter is so depressing.

Caylee was absolutely gorgeous. Those big brown eyes melt my heart.

Lavenia will usually lift your heart :wub:

Good evening PagBoi! :seeya:

Except bad Lavenia keeps posting about how horrible Caylee's last moments could have been. :sad: Lavenia needs a time-out, LOL.

[AlohaRainbow]

ugh but then there would be evidence of that in the pool. I guess I was hoping that would be the least horrible way to die but cholorform would at least knock her out first.

I hope we learn the true story someday and the monster stays in jail forever.
except that casey (and/or george and/or cindy and/or lee) had a month to clean up the pool IF there had been any evidence in the pool (i'm not too fond of the pool/drowning theory, but it is definitely plausible)

[WillowInFlight]

I would l ove to know if the whole time that Casey was gone with Caylee if Lee heard from Casey. That was a pretty long time for the two of them not to be in touch imo. We have heard from the get go how close the two of them were and I would think that G and C would have gotten ahold of Lee and asked him if he had heard from Casey, I as a grandmother of 6 who are all under 5 years of age would be frantic.

Lee did call Casey while she was at the club and told her he was coming to get her, Casey told her friends it was time for them all to leave, guess she wasn't done living the good life.