1-29 Hearings

[JusticeDawg©]

New Thread! We hit 30 pages on the old one!! WoW:thumbsup:

[mrrogers]

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

[ChildsVOICE]

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

We need a Smiley with its fingers crossing!

Somebody email the Smiley people!:laugh:

[wolfi_2]

I just think,
to present a 9 year old child to the public, maybe handcuffed and in chains is ignominiously!

[rusure?]

How is the thread "sticky" from before this thread closed? It is still opened.

[muska]

Website with all kinds of information about St Johns:
http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

There is a big difference in the demographics of St Johns specifically and Apache County in general:
St Johns: White/NonHispanic -68%
Hispanic -23%
American Indian - 7%
Other - 9%
Apache County: American Indian - 79%
White/NonHispanic - 17%
Hispanic - 4.5 %
Other - 1.8%

Whoever put this website together was really detail oriented!!

[GentleBreeze]

Good Morning!

This is one of the big days in this case, I think.

For some reason, I think, Judge Roca may deny both motions after hearing both sides.

imoo

[muska]

The website that I left above also has info on crime rates in St Johns and all over Arizona as compared to national rates. As best as I can tell, St Johns has had an increase in burglaries in recent years and has a somewhat higher overall crime rate (434 per 100,000) than the national average (321 per 100,000). The burglary rate has really climbed.........maybe it was a burglary gone bad on 11/5.

[rusure?]

Website with all kinds of information about St Johns:
http://www.city-data.com/city/St.-Johns-Arizona.html

There is a big difference in the demographics of St Johns specifically and Apache County in general:
St Johns: White/NonHispanic -68%
Hispanic -23%
American Indian - 7%
Other - 9%
Apache County: American Indian - 79%
White/NonHispanic - 17%
Hispanic - 4.5 %
Other - 1.8%

Whoever put this website together was really detail oriented!!

This is interesting. One small town I lived in was comparitively like the demographics of St. Johns and Apache County. Someone told me in the town I lived that blacks weren't allowed to move in there. I was shocked. I could not figure out how a town could keep a race of people from moving there. The rest of the county had a much higher percentage of blacks. Wonder if folks in St. Johns had a similar "pac"? Could be a hate crime alright, especially if Tim was the target.

[rusure?]

The website that I left above also has info on crime rates in St Johns and all over Arizona as compared to national rates. As best as I can tell, St Johns has had an increase in burglaries in recent years and has a somewhat higher overall crime rate (434 per 100,000) than the national average (321 per 100,000). The burglary rate has really climbed.........maybe it was a burglary gone bad on 11/5.

IA. Either burglary or hate crime. I wonder how much of the family mess was from someone looking for something in particular.

[rusure?]

Good Morning!

This is one of the big days in this case, I think.

For some reason, I think, Judge Roca may deny both motions after hearing both sides.

imoo

Both motions? Are you talking about the one motion today concerning dismissal of count 1 and the one next week concerning the competency issue? Is there another you are referring to for today?

Oh, and Good Morning to you too.

[rusure?]

Has the motion to quash the confinement order been granted?
I noticed in the confinement order, dated 1/6, that there were no dates in the blanks except where it says that he will be handed over to staff on 1/21? Anybody know what is going on with all that?

[GentleBreeze]

Both motions? Are you talking about the one motion today concerning dismissal of count 1 and the one next week concerning the competency issue? Is there another you are referring to for today?

Oh, and Good Morning to you too.

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

[rusure?]

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

:confused: I'm sorry GentleBreeze, but your post reads as if he will grant both ways.

[GentleBreeze]

:confused: I'm sorry GentleBreeze, but your post reads as if he will grant both ways.

Grant?!!!!!:lol:

I said he will deny the motion to dismiss put in by the state and he will also deny the motion to dismiss with prejudice that the defense requested.

Maybe another day of not having enough Coke Classic yet but how is "DENIAL" a "GRANT"?:confused:

[eagargal]

This is interesting. One small town I lived in was comparitively like the demographics of St. Johns and Apache County. Someone told me in the town I lived that blacks weren't allowed to move in there. I was shocked. I could not figure out how a town could keep a race of people from moving there. The rest of the county had a much higher percentage of blacks. Wonder if folks in St. Johns had a similar "pac"? Could be a hate crime alright, especially if Tim was the target.

The northern half (if not more) of Apache county is in the Navajo Nation. It starts about 30 miles north of SJ and extends up to the Utah border. The Navajo reservation encompasses the north-eastern corner of AZ and the north-western corner of NM and also a portion of south-eastern UT and south-western CO. It is huge.

Interestingly, the Navajo Nation is on Daylight Savings Time, while AZ is not.

[rusure?]

Grant?!!!!!:lol:

I said he will deny the motion to dismiss put in by the state and he will also deny the motion to dismiss with prejudice that the defense requested.

Maybe another day of not having enough Coke Classic yet but how is "DENIAL" a "GRANT"?:confused:

Because your post said:

Hi rusure!

No, I mean ruling on count one. I think he will deny, dismissing without prejudice and will also deny dismissing with prejudice.

imoo

If one denys both ways (you did not specify defense or pros on either) then one also grants both way. In my thinking anyway.

[GentleBreeze]

OK, :laugh: he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

[rusure?]

OK, :laugh: he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

OK. The way you stated it the first time was clear as mud, now it is as clear as a clear blue lake.:smile:

[Hawk]

OK, :laugh: he will not dismiss count one, imo.

He will not dismiss it with prejudice nor will he dismiss it without prejudice imo.

I don't know how simpler I can state it. So after this I give up.

Although I would like to be surprised. Maybe he will rule in favor of the State or defense today. Who really knows. I was just speculating anyway.

imo

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defence motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

[rusure?]

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defence motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

Perhaps he'll go ahead and rule dismissed with predjudice on both counts so he will not have to go through the rest of the trial. The DA opened the door for that course of action. Then, maybe someone will come up with the truth.

[Hawk]

Perhaps he'll go ahead and rule dismissed with predjudice on both counts so he will not have to go through the rest of the trial. The DA opened the door for that course of action. Then, maybe someone will come up with the truth.

Holy cow!
Is that too much to expect? Would the evidence ever be public then. I guess the gag order would be null and void?

[wolfi_2]

everrybody keep your fingers crossed for good luck

I will do it right now

[rusure?]

Holy cow!
Is that too much to expect? Would the evidence ever be public then. I guess the gag order would be null and void?

With this case, I believe anything is possible.

[FDInLaw]

Is there any hope for a more thorough investigation? IMO this is the only way to resolve this case.

Prayers for the judge. . . may he have wisdom.

[GentleBreeze]

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defense motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

Well the only thing that give me pause is he has now decided to have a hearing on it, when in the past he said he wasn't going to address it or any other substantive issues, until the competency issue was known. So he may have had time to reflect on it and has changed his mind, which of course, he is entitled to do.

While we think he is going to rule that he is age incompetent we have no guarantee of that. We have not heard what the second expert's opinion is nor do we know if JR may think the boy could be reassessed in the 240 day time, since the boy is now nine. He uses the experts opinion as a guide but it is up to him solely what is decided in the end.

imoo

[rusure?]

Kiss the blarney stone, rub your budda's...keep positive thoughts. I don't think I will get one thing done today at work. I'll be watching the news (and this site all day). I'll let you know what local talk on the radio is today.

Please do. I imagine local talk on the radio will get the word out before the court site will.

[rusure?]

Well the only thing that give me pause is he has now decided to have a hearing on it, when in the past he said he wasn't going to address it or any other substantive issues, until the competency issue was known. So he may have had time to reflect on it and has changed his mind, which of course, he is entitled to do.

While we think he is going to rule that he is age incompetent we have no guarantee of that. We have not heard what the second expert's opinion is nor do we know if JR may think the boy could be reassessed in the 240 day time, since the boy is now nine. He uses the experts opinion as a guide but it is up to him solely what is decided in the end.

imoo

I think he is holding the hearing to shut the DA up. If he did not hold a hearing after a motion and a reply to the motion from the DA, he pretty much has his back against the wall because the DA could go over his head again on appeal. Maybe he is holding the hearing to show the DA not to go over his head to get what he wants. I think the judge knew what he was doing in the way he responded the first time, and the Supreme Court showed JR knew what he was doing.

[rusure?]

Is there any hope for a more thorough investigation? IMO this is the only way to resolve this case.

Prayers for the judge. . . may he have wisdom.

Perhaps a more thorough investigation by a PI to at least clear the boys name and find the killer(s) at the same time. I don't believe that LE or the DA will continue with it in order to save face.

[GentleBreeze]

I think he is holding the hearing to shut the DA up. If he did not hold a hearing after a motion and a reply to the motion from the DA, he pretty much has his back against the wall because the DA could go over his head again on appeal. Maybe he is holding the hearing to show the DA not to go over his head to get what he wants. I think the judge knew what he was doing in the way he responded the first time, and the Supreme Court showed JR knew what he was doing.

I just don't see Judge Roca as holding this against the DA or has some vendetta against the State. He knows the DA had a perfect right to appeal the decision. It has been said that JR was a Prosecutor himself.

Actually the Appeals Court did say that Judge Roca had it wrong and he could rule before the incompetency issue is resolved. They also said he was using the adult competency standard which is not the same as a juvenile being assessed for incompetency.

imoo

[Cherishlove]

I just think,
to present a 9 year old child to the public, maybe handcuffed and in chains is ignominiously!It's leaves me feeling sick inside to think of it, maybe we can all take a moment and say a prayer for this little boy. I sure hope this comes to end for this small child soon,so he can be with his Mother and get the therapy he will need now. It's gone on too long now.

[FDInLaw]

Perhaps a more thorough investigation by a PI to at least clear the boys name and find the killer(s) at the same time. I don't believe that LE or the DA will continue with it in order to save face.This is where the public comes in. Pressure needs to applied or justice does not have a prayer IMO.

[rusure?]

I just don't see Judge Roca as holding this against the DA or has some vendetta against the State. He knows the DA had a perfect right to appeal the decision. It has been said that JR was a Prosecutor himself.

Actually the Appeals Court did say that Judge Roca had it wrong and he could rule before the incompetency issue is resolved. They also said he was using the adult competency standard which is not the same as a juvenile being assessed for incompetency.

imoo

Actually, the court said that JR was not bound to wait for the competency hearing before ruling. That I believe is where the adult standard came in. Since he was not bound to wait, it also means he can wait if he wants. They didn't say he was forced to rule.

I think we are speculating anyway. It would be nice to be in his head and then we would not have to sepculate. Or we could be learning a little patience as well.:smile:

[JusticeDawg©]

Weaing my Lapis ring and necklace- Lapis=Justice. Burn a blue or white(innocence) candle if you have one.
I don't have a buddah

Justice.....
That is all I want is Justice.

Justice for CR
Justice for VR and TR (No matter what he did with his life)

This boy does not deserve to be lock up in solitary. He is 9 yrs old. IF he did this, or covered/helped someone, I'd like to know the reason why. I'd like to see him get help.

These men did not deserve to die. I want Justice for them. I hope the judge makes it known that the killer/s will not get away with this. I feel this Judge will do the right thing. I have faith.

I want to see CR released to his mom today. That is all I have to say.

[rusure?]

This is where the public comes in. Pressure needs to applied or justice does not have a prayer IMO.

You are 100% correct in that assesment. The public cannot wait until this case appears as an episode on "Cold Case" (if it is still on TV by then):smile:

[PensiveOne]

This is amazing. Just think how easy killing with a .22 will be now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1SRtkhh-U

[rusure?]

This is amazing. Just think how easy killing with a .22 will be now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1SRtkhh-U

That is a very scary thing to see.

[JusticeDawg©]

With my luck I'd mix it up and shoot my ear off.:tongueside:

That wouldn't be just your luck. :biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

With my luck I'd mix it up and shoot my ear off.:tongueside:

LOL Me too!:laugh:

[JusticeDawg©]

Dimissal of murder charge against 9-year-old sought
January 29th, 2009An Apache County judge is expected to consider whether to dismiss one of two murder charges against a 9-year-old boy.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326550


Put up or shut up. LOL

[Perplexed1]

Weaing my Lapis ring and necklace- Lapis=Justice. Burn a blue or white(innocence) candle if you have one.
I don't have a buddah

Justice.....
That is all I want is Justice.

Justice for CR
Justice for VR and TR (No matter what he did with his life)

This boy does not deserve to be lock up in solitary. He is 9 yrs old. IF he did this, or covered/helped someone, I'd like to know the reason why. I'd like to see him get help.

These men did not deserve to die. I want Justice for them. I hope the judge makes it known that the killer/s will not get away with this. I feel this Judge will do the right thing. I have faith.

I want to see CR released to his mom today. That is all I have to say.

:thumbup: Me too! :thumbup:

[FDInLaw]

Judge Mulls Dimissal Of Boy's Murder Charge

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
. . .
The looming question of whether the boy is fit to stand trial might soon be answered.

Experts nominated by the defense and prosecutors are scheduled to testify Feb. 6 during a hearing that will last much of the day. One expert has already indicated the boy is incompetent in part because of his age and intelligence level.

Roca would decide the matter based on the testimony from the experts.

The boy was 8 years old when the shootings happened on Nov. 5 in the eastern Arizona community of St. Johns. Police have said the boy used a .22-caliber rifle to shoot Romero and Romans as they returned home from work.

In a police interview, the boy admits to firing two shots at each of the men.

Defense attorneys have asked Roca to throw out the so-called confession and a search warrant. Prosecutors agreed not to use any statements the boy made to police in the hourlong interview unless the boy takes the stand in his own defense and contradicts them.

Roca has held off on ruling on the defense motions pending the results of the competency examinations. The appeals court decision gives him a green light to rule on those motions as well.

http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html

[PensiveOne]

I have my fingers and my toes crossed! Though I dont know if JR will release the boy today, I sure am praying! Im thinking at this point today there will be some matters to take care of obviously, however as far as releasing the child Im thinking that JR might do that on Feb 6th.

I am praying, too. I have prayed to God, to Jesus, to all the saints and angels. I hope somebody is listening! I predict a bombshell today...what d'ya think?

[PensiveOne]

That is a very scary thing to see.

Yes, it is. What a device. Easy to take anywhere and slip out unnoticed.

[FDInLaw]

I don't think this boy is going anywhere. I still believe the problem is what to do with a 9 year old murderer. Not who did it.
Unfortunately, LE shared your opinion from the get go and we will be fortunate if the truth is ever known.

[JusticeDawg©]

Unfortunately, LE shared your opinion from the get go and we will be fortunate if the truth is ever known.

I think the truth will be known.

[FDInLaw]

I think the truth will be known.
I'd like to thing so. . . but being personally jaded, it's a stretch for me. :wink:

[muska]

Dimissal of murder charge against 9-year-old sought
January 29th, 2009An Apache County judge is expected to consider whether to dismiss one of two murder charges against a 9-year-old boy.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326550


Put up or shut up. LOL

He also thinks we'll find out what the prosecution's psychiatrist has concluded.

I have my candle lit and saying lots of prayers.

[FDInLaw]

Actually, I am rather optimistic. I think the consensus in that town is the boys dad was a great guy & the boy committed the crime and as far as I know the judge is elected.

Most importantly, I think there will be justice in this case.How can we know anything for sure at this point? The investigation was greatly lacking. In every sloppy step LE has basically handed the DA reasonable doubt. This child my stand trial (as you wish) but I doubt you will have your desired outcome. MOO

[FDInLaw]

I don't KNOW anything for sure, but neither does anyone else here.That said, why are you so sure this child committed this crime? Are you in no way concerned that others were not looked at more closely???

[JusticeDawg©]

Actually, I am rather optimistic. I think the consensus in that town is the boys dad was a great guy & the boy committed the crime and as far as I know the judge is elected.

Most importantly, I think there will be justice in this case.

Bolded by me.

What are you saying there?

[FDInLaw]

Bolded by me.

What are you saying there?We know. . . if it's popular, lynch the boy with or without cause. :glare:

[JusticeDawg©]

We know. . . if it's popular, lynch the boy with or without cause. :glare:

I fight each and every state that has elected Judges. It gives them "motive" :cursing:
I will continue to fight it until they are all appointed!

[dgfred]

I think the truth will be known.

Why? Give us a clue or two or three for your thinking :wink: .

[JusticeDawg©]

You fight each and every state that has elected judges? How? When?

How? When? Are you kidding?

[Crispy]

Well, today is the day! We have another snow day, so I'm free to sit in front of the computer and wait all afternoon! LOL

[JusticeDawg©]

Nope. Not kidding. You claim to do oh so many things. I thought it was a rather simple question, but I can understand if you don't care to answer:rolleyes:

Why can I not do many things? I am young, energetic and smart. It does not take much to get out there and do many things. I belong to the Historical society also. OMG shoot me!

I can give you an answer, but why would it matter? You wouldn't take the time to research what we do.

[JusticeDawg©]

The keyword in my post was "claim." You brought it up, if you can't answer...don't worry about it. I just figured with all the time you spend here and solving cold cases and working with the defense on this case...............you'd be unable to find the time

Back on ignore. I have no time for you.

[rusure?]

I fight each and every state that has elected Judges. It gives them "motive" :cursing:
I will continue to fight it until they are all appointed!

But isn't there potential for "politicing" if they are appointed as well?

To be truthful, I would not want to be an elected judge or an appointed one either.

[rusure?]

Why can I not do many things? I am young, energetic and smart. It does not take much to get out there and do many things. I belong to the Historical society also. OMG shoot me!

I can give you an answer, but why would it matter? You wouldn't take the time to research what we do.

You did not have to answer that JusticeDawg. One's personal life has no bearing on this case. From the past posts, it is obvious there are several people here who are capable and are well equiped to many things in their life.

[rusure?]

December 29, 1999-the world held their breath awaiting the devasting affects of Y2K!

George Bush 2 was elected President BEFORE CR's first birthday!

CR was less than 2 years old on September 11, 2001. Less than a month later, US boots hit the ground in Afghanistan.

CR had just turned 2 when we invaded Iraq.

Saddam Hussein was captured just before CR's 3rd birthday.

George Bush 2 was re-elected when CR was still just 4 years old, a pre-schooler. I am sure at this point, he does not even know who he is.

The devasting tsunami hit just days before his 5th birthday.

March 1 2005- Roper v. Simmons: The Supreme Court of the United States rules the death penalty unconstitutional for juveniles who committed their crimes before age 18. (CR is 5 years old at this time and is in kindergarten. He does not read about the courts decision, but he is learning his farm animals and how to form the letter T.)

Pope John Paul II dies that April.

August 29th of that same year, Hurricane Katrina hits in New Orleans. CR is still in kindergarten.

The day after CR's 7th birthday, Saddam Hussein is executed. CR is in First Grade.

February 8, 2007-Anna Nicole Smith dies. CR had just turned 7 a few weeks before.

August 8, 2008-The Beijing Summer Olympics kick off-CR is now 8 years old and still enjoying summer vacation between 2nd and 3rd grade.

He would be accused of double murder in just 3 months.

That is very sobering. Make one step back and think about where one's priorities are. I hope mercy and grace abound in this hearing today.

[muska]

Another news report from Channel 3 -

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326578

[JusticeDawg©]

another news report from channel 3 -

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326578

foul!!!!!ita

[Details]

foul!!!!!itaAny description for those of us who cannot watch the video?

[Perplexed1]

The keyword in my post was "claim." You brought it up, if you can't answer...don't worry about it. I just figured with all the time you spend here and solving cold cases and working with the defense on this case...............you'd be unable to find the time

I happen to hold down a full time job of 50 hrs., but I manage to keep an eye on this forum. I guess what Dawg is saying, she has time for extra IMPORTANT things, not the NON-essentials. That's why I skim over your posts. They're merely argumentive. And by the way. Your 'green' is showing.:glare:

[JusticeDawg©]

Any description for those of us who cannot watch the video?

Other Local Attorneys are yelling "foul" on the motion to dismiss so they can refile when CR is older.

My son said the same thing, and he is 2nd yr Law School.

[rusure?]

Another news report from Channel 3 -

http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326578

The reporter said court at 10am. I thought they also had something scheduled at 9 as well. Or was that just next week for the competency hearing.

[GentleBreeze]

Other Local Attorneys are yelling "foul" on the motion to dismiss so they can refile when CR is older.

My son said the same thing, and he is 2nd yr Law School.

The one speaking on the video was a DEFENSE Attorney! Of course they say, foul! lol

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

The reporter said court at 10am. I thought they also had something scheduled at 9 as well. Or was that just next week for the competency hearing.

I think Judge Roca had to hear another matter at 9 this morning.

On another case.

[muska]

Any description for those of us who cannot watch the video?

Welcome Back!

[rusure?]

The one speaking on the video was a DEFENSE Attorney! Of course they say, foul! lol

imoo

I believe there are many on this thread who are not DEFENSE attorneys and they are saying foul as well. There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

[rusure?]

I think Judge Roca had to hear another matter at 9 this morning.

On another case.

Oh ok. Thanks. I knew something was happening at 9.

[JusticeDawg©]

I believe there are many on this thread who are not DEFENSE attorneys and they are saying foul as well. There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

Bravo!!!!!!

[JusticeDawg©]

over on wmicentral site thanks had said more b.s. who is the relative that says the boy was molested? any truth to that or they just feeding off someone else's b.s?

Molested by who?
His dad?

Tim the milk man?

No

moo

[GentleBreeze]

I believe there are many on this thread who are not DEFENSE attorneys and they are saying foul as well. There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

Actually this case hasn't gathered nearly as many posters as many other cases. Even those viewing this case is also small compared to other cases that have been discussed here, now and in the past.

Just because some like to speak out publicly to the media doesn't mean they hold the majority opinion. It just means they are the ones speaking out most often. Not everyone is so quick to jump into the media spotlight.

imoo

[Details]

I'm generally a strong G in most cases - and usually find defense attorneys pretty slimey - most of them. But that attempt to pull back a charge, to withhold charges, to allow multiple trials for one action - yeah, FOUL!

It's not right - if he's found NG or incompetent, they shouldn't be allowed to keep retrying.

[rusure?]

over on wmicentral site thanks had said more b.s. who is the relative that says the boy was molested? any truth to that or they just feeding off someone else's b.s?

do you have a link to that?:smile:

[GentleBreeze]

Don't recall anyone whining when they did it in the Darlie Routier case

well....anyone except defense attornys

I am sure it has happened in other cases, as well.

imo

[wolfi_2]

I think, majority opinion has nothing to do with fairness.

[FDInLaw]

I'm generally a strong G in most cases - and usually find defense attorneys pretty slimey - most of them. But that attempt to pull back a charge, to withhold charges, to allow multiple trials for one action - yeah, FOUL!

It's not right - if he's found NG or incompetent, they shouldn't be allowed to keep retrying.
I agree and thought the DA made an excellent statement in the video.

[rusure?]

Actually this case hasn't gathered nearly as many posters as many other cases. Even those viewing this case is also small compared to other cases that have been discussed here, now and in the past.

Just because some like to speak out publicly to the media doesn't mean they hold the majority opinion. It just means they are the ones speaking out most often. Not everyone is so quick to jump into the media spotlight.

imoo

GentleBreeze. Did I say anything about other cases. I didn't think so.

Hey everybody. Have any of you who say foul on this issue, this case, been on the media? Have you sought out to be in the media spotlight?

[GentleBreeze]

I agree and thought the DA made an excellent statement in the video.

What DA or do you mean defense attorney?

imo

[Details]

I never paid attention to the Routier case.

This one is simple. There's no option for him to be incompetent for one, competent for the other charge. So, there's no way that they can be separated. If someone is a serial killer, kills one person on Thursday, kills another on Friday - then there can be reason to think that there might be a different verdict, that there could be a different killer. But not on this - he's competent or incompetent, and realistically, by the police theories, he either killed both, or neither.

And if they've done it elsewhere - wrong is wrong, even if it's been done wrong before.

[JusticeDawg©]

Actually this case hasn't gathered nearly as many posters as many other cases. Even those viewing this case is also small compared to other cases that have been discussed here, now and in the past.

Just because some like to speak out publicly to the media doesn't mean they hold the majority opinion. It just means they are the ones speaking out most often. Not everyone is so quick to jump into the media spotlight.

imoo
They are to busy giving Casey the attention she loves. :rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

GentleBreeze. Did I say anything about other cases. I didn't think so.

Hey everybody. Have any of you who say foul on this issue, this case, been on the media? Have you sought out to be in the media spotlight?

I thought you were referring to law professors speaking out in the media.

There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

[muska]

Even the Attorney General, Grant Woods, from Arizona has problems with this case. He said the boy has been "smeared across the world" due to the release of the tape and that should never have been done. Can't make a much stronger statement than that! He said no one will ever buy St Johns excuse for allowing that interrorgation and that it will be thrown out.

He also said that he very much hopes they will never try to take this case to adult court. I believe the word he used was "preposterous."

[ChildsVOICE]

I just think,
to present a 9 year old child to the public, maybe handcuffed and in chains is ignominiously!

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:

[FDInLaw]

What DA or do you mean defense attorney?

imoDid you watch the video? :rolleyes:

[rusure?]

Don't recall anyone whining when they did it in the Darlie Routier case

well....anyone except defense attornys

Well, if I had heard about the Darlie Routier case, I would have said foul as well, if the DA was attempting to do the same as he has in this case. I wouldn't whine, as you call it, but certainly stand up and say "foul" for the cause of human decency and because it is the moral ethical thing to do.:smile: And yes, if I was a DA, I would not sink to the depths of hell to commit such an immoral act to a fellow human being. That may be why some attorneys are Defense attorneys rather than DAs:smile:

[Pag Boi]

GentleBreeze. Did I say anything about other cases. I didn't think so.

Hey everybody. Have any of you who say foul on this issue, this case, been on the media? Have you sought out to be in the media spotlight?

Well let's seek the truth for all sides here. Flip the coin and I see a few not crying foul that sought out the spotlight. Not sure if this message board constitutes media, tho? JMOO

:cool:

[GentleBreeze]

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:

Have you sent your petition yet? How many people across America that are outraged have signed it?

imoo

[FDInLaw]

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:AMEN! :thumbsup:

[rusure?]

I thought you were referring to law professors speaking out in the media.

There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

Nope, there are separate sentences in the post. One sentence says law professors. The other says most people. Two separate subjects in the sentence structure.

Did I say anything about Media in the post you are quoting from?

Read my signature.:smile:

[JusticeDawg©]

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:

Amen! :thumbsup:

[rusure?]

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:

Absolutly! Amen! Amen!:thumbsup:

[Crispy]

Don't recall anyone whining when they did it in the Darlie Routier case

well....anyone except defense attornys


I think it was a little different in the Routier case. Was she initially charged with both boys?

In this case, they jumped the gun and went on full bore with both charges. So far, the only reason I've seen for dismissing the charge is that they aren't equipped to deal with an 8 year old in the juvenile system. How is dropping one charge going to change that? Why wouldn't they move to drop both charges? I've read and reread their reply to the motion and it seems like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. We aren't doing it for tactical advantage, every motion made is for tactical advantage, but even if we were doing it for that we aren't doing it in bad faith and even if we are doing it in bad faith, it's not an unfair advantage, and if it is, it doesn't matter until the charges are refiled.

I completely understand they want justice for the victims in this case, but I think at this point they are just trying to save face after the release of the video didn't get the over whelming result they wanted and people started to realize what kind of shoddy investigation they are going on. Of course it's jmo and I've been wrong before.

[FDInLaw]

Even the family of one of the victims is questioning if this child is responsible. . . I'm just sayin'.

[muska]

Wolfi_2,

So do we, here in America! We are outraged! :cursing:

Let there be no mistake. Personally, I will be doing everything in my power to make sure we try to get these laws changed!

Some underestimated what a simple mother of four could do. Look at us now!

Tell all your friends and family who have canceled their trips and vacations to the United States of America...

"Never underestimate the power of a good ole American MOM!"

(Can I get some 'Amens' girls?!):thumbsup:

I had to come back for one more minute to say "Amen" and I don't usually say that! What was that that Margaret Mead said about a small group of people being the only thing that's ever changed anything?" Great and very true quote. Thanks for all that you do.

[FDInLaw]

Amen! :thumbsup:Jinx. . . you owe me a coke! :biggrin:

[ChildsVOICE]

Is there any hope for a more thorough investigation? IMO this is the only way to resolve this case.

Prayers for the judge. . . may he have wisdom.

Yes. Prayers for the judge!

[FDInLaw]

I had to come back for one more minute to say "Amen" and I don't usually say that! What was that that Margaret Mead said about a small group of people being the only thing that's ever changed anything?" Great and very true quote. Thanks for all that you do.
Margaret Mead. . . :thumbup:

[JusticeDawg©]

I had to come back for one more minute to say "Amen" and I don't usually say that! What was that that Margaret Mead said about a small group of people being the only thing that's ever changed anything?" Great and very true quote. Thanks for all that you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlDyI9rApwk

[GentleBreeze]

I think it was a little different in the Routier case. Was she initially charged with both boys?

In this case, they jumped the gun and went on full bore with both charges. So far, the only reason I've seen for dismissing the charge is that they aren't equipped to deal with an 8 year old in the juvenile system. How is dropping one charge going to change that? Why wouldn't they move to drop both charges? I've read and reread their reply to the motion and it seems like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. We aren't doing it for tactical advantage, every motion made is for tactical advantage, but even if we were doing it for that we aren't doing it in bad faith and even if we are doing it in bad faith, it's not an unfair advantage, and if it is, it doesn't matter until the charges are refiled.

I completely understand they want justice for the victims in this case, but I think at this point they are just trying to save face after the release of the video didn't get the over whelming result they wanted and people started to realize what kind of shoddy investigation they are going on. Of course it's jmo and I've been wrong before.

I do agree with you that they jumped the gun. It is obvious that double homicides and 8 year old suspects are as scarce as hens teeth.

Since this motion was filed around two week later I think they had time to regroup and realize even if he was tried in the juvenile system the maximum amount of time he would get, would be to the age of 18 and he could get that on just one murder charge. That left no justice for the other victim that was murdered. And when they realized that is when they wanted to withdraw that charge in the fairness of Vincent Romero to also receive justice for his murder.

IMO this didn't have anything to do with the competency issue then because the experts hadn't even seen him.

imoo

[StillEG]

I believe there are many on this thread who are not DEFENSE attorneys and they are saying foul as well. There are law professors who say foul. Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.


Do you have a link to 'most people'?

Also, by whose standards are you judging 'ethics' and 'morals'?

This all sounds like your opinion to me.

[StillEG]

Even the family of one of the victims is questioning if this child is responsible. . . I'm just sayin'.


I can't make up my mind on this case. I keep reading y'alls posts for info but not posting because I just don't know how I feel.

:shrug:

[ChildsVOICE]

Perhaps a more thorough investigation by a PI to at least clear the boys name and find the killer(s) at the same time. I don't believe that LE or the DA will continue with it in order to save face.

Let's hope for justice for ALL the victims!

The families need to know the TRUTH about what happened that day!

They don't need to think the little one did it and got off PLUS have a raging maniac (the real perpetrator) amongst their midst! Who could be next if they don't find the real shooter(s)? Someone is walking around REALLY cocky right about now!

[bkwits]

The keyword in my post was "claim." You brought it up, if you can't answer...don't worry about it. I just figured with all the time you spend here and solving cold cases and working with the defense on this case...............you'd be unable to find the time

Let's stick to this case, shall we? :smile:

[FDInLaw]

I can't make up my mind on this case. I keep reading y'alls posts for info but not posting because I just don't know how I feel.

:shrug:

Yours is a sensible position. I wish more of an investigation would have been done and the boy's rights respected. . . then maybe more of us could have an actually opinion of guilt or innocence. Like you, I'm not sure. However, I am appalled at the way this whole case has been handled.

[Details]

I can't make up my mind on this case. I keep reading y'alls posts for info but not posting because I just don't know how I feel.

:shrug:Maybe this will help - two shots were made to Tim's chest, close together, both slanting downward (per the autopsy). This means Tim somehow was in front of the killer, with his chest lower than the killer's chest, for long enough for two shots to be made. Obviously this is a problem - the child is not taller than Tim, and once someone is shot in the chest (for a second time, BTW, he'd already been shot once in the driveway, presumably in the arm and lung, since that was the least incapacitating shot, and he made it to the house), they're going to go down pretty soon, not stand there while a child reloads their single shot rifle and wait for the second shot.

So those two shots, so close together, with that angle, suggest a killer taller than Tim, with a autoloader of some kind. Mossberg or similar.

[StillEG]

Would be great if we actually had more info...gag order is annoying!

I agree! Very frustrating.

[StillEG]

Maybe this will help - two shots were made to Tim's chest, close together, both slanting downward (per the autopsy). This means Tim somehow was in front of the killer, with his chest lower than the killer's chest, for long enough for two shots to be made. Obviously this is a problem - the child is not taller than Tim, and once someone is shot in the chest (for a second time, BTW, he'd already been shot once in the driveway, presumably in the arm and lung, since that was the least incapacitating shot, and he made it to the house), they're going to go down pretty soon, not stand there while a child reloads their single shot rifle and wait for the second shot.

So those two shots, so close together, with that angle, suggest a killer taller than Tim, with a autoloader of some kind. Mossberg or similar.


The angle of the bullets is definitely a problem as is the fact that there are 2 to the chest. This is part of what makes me skeptical.

[JusticeDawg©]

The angle of the bullets is definitely a problem as is the fact that there are 2 to the chest. This is part of what makes me skeptical.

I call it Exonerating evidence. :biggrin:


moo

[FDInLaw]

What time is it in AZ now? Update a noon?

My guess 11:30am. . . they don't do daylight savings.

[PensiveOne]

Yes. Prayers for the judge!

ditto:thumbsup:

[rusure?]

Do you have a link to 'most people'?

Also, by whose standards are you judging 'ethics' and 'morals'?

This all sounds like your opinion to me.

I started my post off with "I believe". So, yes, you are correct, it is my opinion.:thumbsup:

[ExPI]

"I call it Exonerating evidence. "
I agree absolutely !!!

[Crispy]

That's what I thought...anyone have a link for live local news there?

On the links thread, second post are all the links to the local news (except abc15). I just checked them all and they have the same article. Nothing new.

[rusure?]

Maybe this will help - two shots were made to Tim's chest, close together, both slanting downward (per the autopsy). This means Tim somehow was in front of the killer, with his chest lower than the killer's chest, for long enough for two shots to be made. Obviously this is a problem - the child is not taller than Tim, and once someone is shot in the chest (for a second time, BTW, he'd already been shot once in the driveway, presumably in the arm and lung, since that was the least incapacitating shot, and he made it to the house), they're going to go down pretty soon, not stand there while a child reloads their single shot rifle and wait for the second shot.

So those two shots, so close together, with that angle, suggest a killer taller than Tim, with a autoloader of some kind. Mossberg or similar.

Absolutely Details. That is one of the things that leaves a huge ? in my mind.

[Kara]

My guess 11:30am. . . they don't do daylight savings.No part of the country does daylight savings time in January.

If they are on mountain time, it should be almost noon there now.

BTW...welcome back Details :seeya:

[ChildsVOICE]

Signing off for a little while. Got to get my kids off the bus. They'll be getting an extra big huge from mom today!

For those of you who are new...visit

www.myspace.com/childsHOPEandVOICE

There is a link to police reports and more!

[GentleBreeze]

Absolutely Details. That is one of the things that leaves a huge ? in my mind.

Since we have no idea what position Tim's body was in when he was shot in the chest either time , this doesn't bother me. Once he was shot in the arm he may have positioned himself in a lower crouching position and was hit in the chest. The second time he could have slumped to his knees from the first shot to the chest and was trying to stand back up when shot again.

I am sure in the DPS investigation they have reenacted this using the trajectory data, autopsy report, among other forensic testing techniques they use.

imoo

[FDInLaw]

No part of the country does DST in Jan? :confused: huh?"Daylight saving time (DST; also, summer time in British English; see Terminology) is the convention of advancing clocks so that afternoons have more daylight and mornings have less. Typically clocks are adjusted forward one hour near the start of spring and are adjusted backward in autumn." I thought it was the opposite. . . LOL. Guess I was not alone. :blushing:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time

[JusticeDawg©]

Current time in AZ is 11:56.

I feel a win coming on... :thumbsup:

[JusticeDawg©]

Hearing for young murder defendant postponed


http://news.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1034443

[FDInLaw]

it helps me think of you spring ahead and fall back
I use that saying too. Guess I thought it was used so that the winter months had more time???? Why is it needed in the summer??? Oh well.

[wolfi_2]

first new's
http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html

[Crispy]

first new's
http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html

:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

first new's
http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html

Well usually when a defense attorney says that it means that revealing what is known to the public it could prejudice their client to a fair trial.

I have a feeling that the discovery just recently turned over has these defense attorneys burring the midnight oil and has left them scrambling as to what to do next.

I still say there may be a plea deal in the works.

imoo

[bkwits]

I can't make up my mind on this case. I keep reading y'alls posts for info but not posting because I just don't know how I feel.

:shrug:

Well, it may seem like the majority of us agree on just about everything. However, that is not the case. While most of the posters here do have sympathy for the child, there are various beliefs and interpretations of the evidence. Also, many of us have different issues which are important to us. For instance, my biggest issue is how unfairly the child was treated, and how he was denied any rights. I saw it happen in Chicago with the arrest of 7 and 8 year old little boys in the Ryan Harris murder. LE, here had absolutely no evidence agains the children because the children didn't do it. They obtained false confessions from each one individually. The little boys had no representation (as in this case). The real rapist/murderer was arrested because of DNA. While LE was persecuting the children, he raped a 5 year old.

So, if this child shot the two men or not, he was still denied any rights. If it turns out that he alone did this, I still say LE was not right to trample on his rights. IMO.

Welcome to the discussion.

[GentleBreeze]

ITA. No need for a plea deal. LE has handed the defense reasonable doubt. . . MOO

How do you know what LE or the DA has handed the defense?

How can you even say that when none of us has seen the evidence they have turned over?

[Jacobtk]

I have a feeling that the discovery just recently turned over has these defense attorneys burring the midnight oil and has left them scrambling as to what to do next.

I still say there may be a plea deal in the works.

Seems unlikely. The plea deal offered is contengent on the results of the competency hearing.

Roca rescheduled the next hearing the day before the competency hearing. My guess is that the boy's attorneys just got the report and need time to thoroughly go over it. The fact that the hearing occurred behind closed doors suggests that something is not exactly in order with the state's case or that the boy may be released some time soon. The judge otherwise has no reason to postpone the ruling and certainly not the day before the competency hearing.

[JusticeDawg©]

The DA BEGGED for the ruling on the Motion to Dismiss. He didn't get one.

Now you have to ask yourself....why?

[Jacobtk]

How do you know what LE or the DA has handed the defense?

How can you even say that when none of us has seen the evidence they have turned over?

It is the most reasonable conclusion based on what has occurred so far. The state has handed in what is presumably its final disclosure. If it were substantive, the boy's attorneys would not have asked (which is what is implied) for the date of the hearing to be moved. They would just wait until the competency hearing and then make a decision after the judge rules. That is the best legal defense they could give the boy. Accepting a deal before the competency hearing would make no sense.

[GentleBreeze]

Seems unlikely. The plea deal offered is contengent on the results of the competency hearing.

Roca rescheduled the next hearing the day before the competency hearing. My guess is that the boy's attorneys just got the report and need time to thoroughly go over it. The fact that the hearing occurred behind closed doors suggests that something is not exactly in order with the state's case or that the boy may be released some time soon. The judge otherwise has no reason to postpone the ruling and certainly not the day before the competency hearing.

Ah ha, so he is still going to do it BEFORE the competency hearing.

I think that is just speculation. It doesn't mean that the State doesn't have their case in order. It is common for in chambers meetings with the Judge to discuss the case with the state and defense, especially before an open hearing. It could be just as likely that the defense has received evidence showing the boy guilty of the crime and he is asking for more time to digest it all.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Yep and anytime a defense attorney says "it was in the best interest of my client" (behind closed doors) it means what was said can hurt the client if known imo.

I have seen them say that ad nauseaum.

I think Judge Roca is giving them both a little more time to work on a deal.

imoo

[Crispy]

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2029,%202009 .pdf
Today's press release


So according to this they are still going to hear the argument for the motion to dismiss. I take it that means it wasn't ruled on today. Also, they are probably pushing back the competency hearing. What in the world are they waiting on?

[GentleBreeze]

I thought someone said that he would be going home with his mother today? :confused:

[FDInLaw]

How do you know what LE or the DA has handed the defense?

How can you even say that when none of us has seen the evidence they have turned over?

Let me guess, you be one of those black and white literal folks (oh joy). I was speaking figuratively. . . by doing a carpy job, LE "handed" the DA an excellent case for RD. All JMO of course.

My poor mama is the same way. . . she did not enjoy my teen years lol. :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2029,%202009 .pdf
Today's press release

Love the Carlyon part. :wink:

Watching him like a hawk, huh? :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

I thought someone said that he would be going home with his mother today? :confused:

Was that done in chambers today? Could be. :w00t:

[FDInLaw]

:laugh: I appreciate the offer, but I fear I would turn into Lewis Black during the opening and closing arguments.

I'd like to go in your place! :biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

Instead of going home today, the boy so many claim they have no evidence to hold is going to spend at least the next two weeks right where he is now.

Why would that be okay with the defense?

Yeah, I thought his client is innocent yet the case has been postponed and the competency issue date is even iffy.

imo

[Jacobtk]

Ah ha, so he is still going to do it BEFORE the competency hearing.

There is no indication that Roca will rule before the competency hearing, only that he will hear the arguments for the motion to dismiss. I would suspect that he would not rule on it until he hears the competency results.

I think that is just speculation. It doesn't mean that the State doesn't have their case in order. It is common for in chambers meetings with the Judge to discuss the case with the state and defense, especially before an open hearing. It could be just as likely that the defense has received evidence showing the boy guilty of the crime and he is asking for more time to digest it all.

That makes no logical or legal sense. If they have information demonstrating the boy's guilt, the judge could still rule the boy is incompetent and he would be released due to his age (unless the state could show that the boy needed to be committed). Why stall that process when they could just as easily build their case for the trial or come up with an acceptable plea deal by Feb. 6th?

It seems more logical that there is an issue with what the state presented, mostly likely the way the evidence was handled. Now that they have the results, Brewer and Wood may want to have their own experts go over them or attempt to recreate them. I think the fact that those results have not been mentioned or released at all are a good indication of there being some issue that does not work in the state's favor.

While this means the boy will have to remain in jail a little longer, it also means that his attorneys are doing their jobs.

[JusticeDawg©]

"I want him to go back to being the boy he was before November," Wood said.
Defense attorney Ron Wood said he would like nothing more than for the boy to be exonerated and be able to return to school, where he was a third-grader, and to his family.
http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html

-------------------What does that tell you HotNOSTRIL and G BREEZE??

[rusure?]

Ah ha, so he is still going to do it BEFORE the competency hearing.

I think that is just speculation. It doesn't mean that the State doesn't have their case in order. It is common for in chambers meetings with the Judge to discuss the case with the state and defense, especially before an open hearing. It could be just as likely that the defense has received evidence showing the boy guilty of the crime and he is asking for more time to digest it all.

imoo

Well, the competency hearing was postphoned also, but because one of the evaluators could not be there on the 6th. I suppose the judge couldn't hold of on this hearing (motion to dismiss) past the hearing on competency (Feb. 13). At least we know why the competency hearing is postphoned..

[JusticeDawg©]

Why mess with competency when you have exonerating evidence?

You don't.

DA can delay all he wants. They can't change the FACTS.

[rusure?]

That is soooooooooooo strange. The boy he WAS????

Of course he would like nothing better but it doesn't mean even he thinks that is true or will happen. It is like he is saying that he wishes this boy was the boy he was before he perhaps made a stupid decision to do these crimes.

Of course if he had his rathers this is what he would want. It sure doesn't mean this is what IS, though.

I could say I wish Vinnie and Tim could go back to being alive and well, working, loving and being with their families again but just because I wish for it doesn't mean it is ever going to happen.

This is nothing more than defense speak-isms imo.

imoo

The boys life has been changed forever. No way will he be the boy he was before this tragedy. He lost his father and is also accused of the crimes. Of course I wish he could be the boy he was before, but it is going to take lots of therapy to accomplish anything close to what he was.

[rusure?]

That makes no logical or legal sense. If they have information demonstrating the boy's guilt, the judge could still rule the boy is incompetent and he would be released due to his age (unless the state could show that the boy needed to be committed). Why stall that process when they could just as easily build their case for the trial or come up with an acceptable plea deal by Feb. 6th?

It seems more logical that there is an issue with what the state presented, mostly likely the way the evidence was handled. Now that they have the results, Brewer and Wood may want to have their own experts go over them or attempt to recreate them. I think the fact that those results have not been mentioned or released at all are a good indication of there being some issue that does not work in the state's favor.

While this means the boy will have to remain in jail a little longer, it also means that his attorneys are doing their jobs.

The motion to dismiss however, IMO, was postphoned because the defense was sandbaged by having all the reports etc. not disclosed until yesterday..How many hundreds of pages was it? close to 500 yesterday? That is not a reasonable amount of time to examine disclosed evidence, imo.

[JusticeDawg©]

The motion to dismiss however, IMO, was postphoned because the defense was sandbaged by having all the reports etc. not disclosed until yesterday..How many hundreds of pages was it? close to 500 yesterday? That is not a reasonable amount of time to examine disclosed evidence, imo.

How do you know the defense didn't hand the DA their findings?

[rusure?]

Was that done in chambers today? Could be. :w00t:

I imagine if he was going home, it would be kept quite for a while anyway. It was done in chambers today. Just the hearing was going to be done in open court.

[Crispy]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during those in chamber meetings!

[rusure?]

Yeah, I thought his client is innocent yet the case has been postponed and the competency issue date is even iffy.

imo

The judge nor the defense has had much opportunity to go over what was disclosed yesterday, imo. What do you expect? I really do not trust a DA who waits till the end of the day 2 days before the morning of the hearing. Dirty pool, imo. Smells like they had fish for lunch in the DA's office too.

[IAMME]

I imagine if he was going home, it would be kept quite for a while anyway. It was done in chambers today. Just the hearing was going to be done in open court.


ITA!!:biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

The judge nor the defense has had much opportunity to go over what was disclosed yesterday, imo. What do you expect? I really do not trust a DA who waits till the end of the day 2 days before the morning of the hearing. Dirty pool, imo. Smells like they had fish for lunch in the DA's office too.

LOL! Judge Roca told them to try to have discovery back by the end of January. The DA did as he told the Judge he would try to do. It was recorded on the website on the 27th around 10 ish a.m.

That gave then plenty of time to read the discovery.

In fact I would say before it was put up on the site it had already been given to the defense even before then.

imoo

[dgfred]

Signing off for a little while. Got to get my kids off the bus. They'll be getting an extra big huge from mom today!

For those of you who are new...visit

www.myspace.com/childsHOPEandVOICE

There is a link to police reports and more!

I enjoyed the shooting video of the Chipmunk... very telling to me :wink: .

I am also much more suspicious of the home setting: guns and ammo readily available, liquor bottle on cabinet, messy in general, scarcity of stuff in bathroom worries me too for some reason. A belt on the stairs??? Clothes piled everywhere??? Some other stuff too, I just get a creepy feeling about it.

[FDInLaw]

Ohhh. Does that mean you weren't in Reality before?

I was inferring that the poster in question had taken up residence in LaLa Land as opposed to "reality" where she claims. If this is in fact a infraction of the rules I will gladly take my lumps like a big girl.

Personally, in my TOS I would limit the number of times any poster can use the :tonguewag: icon. This is not a frivolous case of missing cookies or such. A young boy's life hangs in the balance and I find the disregard for his rights alarming. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Perhaps because there will not be enough evidence to convict without reasonable doubt and therefore there will not need to be a competency hearing.

We also do not know if the closed hearing was to allow him to go home. I personally if it meant he sat there for two more weeks and this was put behind him once and for all...amen.

Also if he is innocent of this and his mother decides to sue the state for everything, everyday day he sits there is another million in their pocket. This is what happened in Chicago.

IMHO.

They will probably put up on the Apache court site who attended the in chambers meeting.

I don't think it had one thing to do with him going home and I don't believe Eryn was in closed chambers either.

But we will see.

imo

[IAMME]

LOL! Judge Roca told them to try to have discovery back by the end of January. The DA did as he told the Judge he would try to do. It was recorded on the website on the 27th around 10 ish a.m.

That gave then plenty of time to read the discovery.

In fact I would say before it was put up on the site it had already been given to the defense even before then.

imoo


It PAINS me to do this but I agree, not everything seems to be put up on the website in a timely manner....But that's IT going back to disagreeing now....:tonguewag:

[dgfred]

Would someone look at the crime scene photos and look at what I think is a liquor bottle (in kitchen area?) to verify it for me?

[rusure?]

LOL! Judge Roca told them to try to have discovery back by the end of January. The DA did as he told the Judge he would try to do. It was recorded on the website on the 27th around 10 ish a.m.

That gave then plenty of time to read the discovery.

In fact I would say before it was put up on the site it had already been given to the defense even before then.

imoo

The signed date on the document is dated the 27th at 10:12 AM. In my opinion, that is hardly time for the judge, let alone the defense to thoroughly go through 500+ pages of material, plus CD's to be able to know what the DA is trying to pull. The judge I am sure has other cases and matters to tend to besides this case. Did he not have a separate meeting at 9 am this morning before the 10am hearing for this case. I'm also sure that Wood law firm has other cases as well. No way anyone could go through all that material adequately.

[FDInLaw]

The signed date on the document is dated the 27th at 10:12 AM. In my opinion, that is hardly time for the judge, let alone the defense to thoroughly go through 500+ pages of material, plus CD's to be able to know what the DA is trying to pull. The judge I am sure has other cases and matters to tend to besides this case. Did he not have a separate meeting at 9 am this morning before the 10am hearing for this case. I'm also sure that Wood law firm has other cases as well. No way anyone could go through all that material adequately.Good catch. Doesn't sound like much was planned for today.

[StillEG]

I started my post off with "I believe". So, yes, you are correct, it is my opinion.:thumbsup:


Of course you did, but then prefaced you last sentence regarding 'most people' with;

Matter of fact most people with any sense of ethics and morals are saying foul as well.

I simply wanted a link to your 'fact'.

[GentleBreeze]

Would someone look at the crime scene photos and look at what I think is a liquor bottle (in kitchen area?) to verify it for me?

I don't know that much about liquor but could it be cooking liquor or some type of wine to cook with. Although it is not against the law to have liquor in one's home.

imoo

[IAMME]

Does anyone else think that maybe all the misspellings in all the documents might be on purpose? ie...alder vs alden?? Just to make it harder for us to search for these folks....

[Hawk]

This is looking bad for the boy.
All defense really needed for a motion to dismiss was the little bit of simple gun and casings evidence. Didn't take long to read that.
Mr. Brewer must know the State's competency report findings, and thinks it will create a problem with the judge.
He delayed to consider a plea or to plan strategy.

[GentleBreeze]

The signed date on the document is dated the 27th at 10:12 AM. In my opinion, that is hardly time for the judge, let alone the defense to thoroughly go through 500+ pages of material, plus CD's to be able to know what the DA is trying to pull. The judge I am sure has other cases and matters to tend to besides this case. Did he not have a separate meeting at 9 am this morning before the 10am hearing for this case. I'm also sure that Wood law firm has other cases as well. No way anyone could go through all that material adequately.

That is more than enough time imo. This law office has two attorneys or more and I am sure paralegals as well. Reading lots of documents is the norm.

imo

[Jacobtk]

LOL! Judge Roca told them to try to have discovery back by the end of January. The DA did as he told the Judge he would try to do. It was recorded on the website on the 27th around 10 ish a.m.

That gave then plenty of time to read the discovery.

In fact I would say before it was put up on the site it had already been given to the defense even before then.

Nine hundred pages of reports is close to reading all of Lord of the Rings. At my best I have managed to get through the entire book in a week and a half. The boy's attorneys not only have to read the reports, but formulate any counter arguments or complaints they have with the findings and run the reports by their own experts. That cannot be done in a few days.

Just as no one should expect the state to collect evidence, test it and write a report in a week, no one should expect the defense to receive a report, read it and then challenge parts of it in a week.

[GentleBreeze]

This is looking bad for the boy.
All defense really needed for a motion to dismiss was the little bit of simple gun and casings evidence. Didn't take long to read that.
Mr. Brewer must know the State's competency report findings, and thinks it will create a problem with the judge.
He delayed to consider a plea or to plan strategy.

I agree, Hawk.

The 26 pages is all he would need to read.

imoo

[dgfred]

I don't know that much about liquor but could it be cooking liquor or some type of wine to cook with. Although it is not against the law to have liquor in one's home.

imoo

Yeah, but you got 8 yr olds spending long afternoons around the house, sometimes alone... alot of trust in the young guy right?

[rusure?]

Good catch. Doesn't sound like much was planned for today.

Thanks. That's what I think. One has to read every word and make sure all the i's are dotted and every t is crossed. I try to do that anyway.

[GentleBreeze]

Nine hundred pages of reports is close to reading all of Lord of the Rings. At my best I have managed to get through the entire book in a week and a half. The boy's attorneys not only have to read the reports, but formulate any counter arguments or complaints they have with the findings and run the reports by their own experts. That cannot be done in a few days.

Just as no one should expect the state to collect evidence, test it and write a report in a week, no one should expect the defense to receive a report, read it and then challenge parts of it in a week.

I thought that was the total pages that have been received to date. The last discovery was around 400 ish, iirc.

imoo

[rusure?]

Does anyone else think that maybe all the misspellings in all the documents might be on purpose? ie...alder vs alden?? Just to make it harder for us to search for these folks....

Surely not. That would be pretty sloppy. Wouldn't that cause legal problems?

[GentleBreeze]

Yeah, but you got 8 yr olds spending long afternoons around the house, sometimes alone... alot of trust in the young guy right?

Yes, I do think his father had a lot of faith and trust in this boy.

imoo

[dgfred]

I also see where J Dawg's remark that tiffany should have been at the house 'cleaning up' :wink: .

[rusure?]

Nine hundred pages of reports is close to reading all of Lord of the Rings. At my best I have managed to get through the entire book in a week and a half. The boy's attorneys not only have to read the reports, but formulate any counter arguments or complaints they have with the findings and run the reports by their own experts. That cannot be done in a few days.

Just as no one should expect the state to collect evidence, test it and write a report in a week, no one should expect the defense to receive a report, read it and then challenge parts of it in a week.

Hear Hear. Amen to that!:thumbsup:

[FDInLaw]

Yeah, but you got 8 yr olds spending long afternoons around the house, sometimes alone... alot of trust in the young guy right?
The folks I know that use liqueur/wine for cooking only tend to hide it out of sight in high cabinets when kids are in the house. I agree with you, it's unlikely to be the case here. MOO

[rusure?]

I never hid mine, I see no reason for it.

Are you sure you live in Reality???:smile:

[Jacobtk]

I thought that was the total pages that have been received to date. The last discovery was around 400 ish, iirc.

The exact count is 549 pages. However, the attorneys would still need time to address the findings of the report, especially if they were given the report shortly before it was submitted to the court. If they have any issues with the findings, they would need time to have that reviewed by their experts.

While it is possible that they are trying to plan a plea deal, it seems unlikely that they would stall the hearing for a week. They have no reason to given that the judge still must decide the competency. The boy could have committed the acts and be found incompetent and released. Planning a plea deal would undermine that process. Most likely they moved the date for strategy reasons.

[FDInLaw]

I never hid mine, I see no reason for it.
And I bet you believe your kiddos never touched it. :biggrin:

[rusure?]

If they have any issues with the findings, they would need time to have that reviewed by their experts.


ITA. And, IMO, they still would need their experts to look it over if the boy was innocent and I would think those experts have other cases on their plate to drop it all for this one case, plus travel etc involved.

[Hawk]

The exact count is 549 pages. However, the attorneys would still need time to address the findings of the report, especially if they were given the report shortly before it was submitted to the court. If they have any issues with the findings, they would need time to have that reviewed by their experts.

While it is possible that they are trying to plan a plea deal, it seems unlikely that they would stall the hearing for a week. They have no reason to given that the judge still must decide the competency. The boy could have committed the acts and be found incompetent and released. Planning a plea deal would undermine that process. Most likely they moved the date for strategy reasons.

Not if Mr. Brewer senses that the judge will rule against the boy and the 26 page DPS report confirms that the Chipmunk was the one, and only, weapon used with the boys fingerprints present. If that's the case most of the other evidence is minor. Short of an eyewitness seeing someone else at the scene.

Defence has some issues to consider.

[Jacobtk]

This is looking bad for the boy.
All defense really needed for a motion to dismiss was the little bit of simple gun and casings evidence. Didn't take long to read that.
Mr. Brewer must know the State's competency report findings, and thinks it will create a problem with the judge.

That is not likely. He had to presume the state would find the boy competent and would have already planned for that. It is the most obvious conclusion.

As for dismissal, the gun and casing evidence would not result in a dismissal. If the boy's gun was not used and his prints were not found, the state still has the confession, which has not been thrown, and the GPR and fingerprint. That is still enough to go to trial. It also makes no sense to waste the motion to dismiss now when the boy could be found incompetent. Brewer and Wood would need clear evidence of the boy's innocence and if that were provable with the evidence gathered, one can be certain Carlyon would not have turned it over.

I suspect that they are reviewing the findings and testing them as best as they can.

[rusure?]

That is not likely. He had to presume the state would find the boy competent and would have already planned for that. It is the most obvious conclusion.

As for dismissal, the gun and casing evidence would not result in a dismissal. If the boy's gun was not used and his prints were not found, the state still has the confession, which has not been thrown, and the GPR and fingerprint. That is still enough to go to trial. It also makes no sense to waste the motion to dismiss now when the boy could be found incompetent. Brewer and Wood would need clear evidence of the boy's innocence and if that were provable with the evidence gathered, one can be certain Carlyon would not have turned it over.

I suspect that they are reviewing the findings and testing them as best as they can.

I'm so glad you are here to explain. Clear as a clear blue lake. I try to explain and it is only as clear as mud.

[Jacobtk]

Not if Mr. Brewer senses that the judge will rule against the boy and the 26 page DPS report confirms that the Chipmunk was the one, and only, weapon used with the boys fingerprints present. If that's the case most of the other evidence is minor. Short of an eyewitness seeing someone else at the scene.

Defence has some issues to consider.

The judge cannot rule the boy is competent based on the evidence in the case. The judge must rule based on what is presented in the competency reports and must fall within the law. In other words, competency assumes the child committed the act anyway. The issue is whether he could understand the trial and proceedings. The boy could be clearly guilty and found incompetent and released.

As for the findings, again, I find it difficult to believe the state would not have released anything conclusively pointing to the boy by now. The defense makes sense because they are bound by the gag order. The state, however, can release the information as per public record, so for nothing to have come out, not a single confirmation of anything seems strikingly odd.

[Hawk]

That is not likely. He had to presume the state would find the boy competent and would have already planned for that. It is the most obvious conclusion.

As for dismissal, the gun and casing evidence would not result in a dismissal. If the boy's gun was not used and his prints were not found, the state still has the confession, which has not been thrown, and the GPR and fingerprint. That is still enough to go to trial. It also makes no sense to waste the motion to dismiss now when the boy could be found incompetent. Brewer and Wood would need clear evidence of the boy's innocence and if that were provable with the evidence gathered, one can be certain Carlyon would not have turned it over.

I suspect that they are reviewing the findings and testing them as best as they can.

I think you're making this case a lot more complicated than it really is. The evidence is simple.

It's apparent that the Arizona Juvenile justice system is much different than their adult system.
You can't deny an adult a jury trial in a double murder case.
This judge holds the boys life in his hands. He do whatever he wants.

[dgfred]

Surely not. That would be pretty sloppy. Wouldn't that cause legal problems?

Sloppy? This Case? Nope... no problems here with LE... move along :rolleyes: .

[rusure?]

Sloppy? This Case? Nope... no problems here with LE... move along :rolleyes: .

:lol::lol: ITA

[Jacobtk]

I think you're making this case a lot more complicated than it really is. The evidence is simple.

If this case was simple it would have been resolved by now. The process is moving slow because the judge is not keen on jumping the gun, much to Carlyon's dismay. Any defense attorney worth his license would review the reports handed to him and get his own experts' opinions before making a decision. Neither Brewer or Wood would approach Eyrn and try to coax her into accepting a plea deal without having done that.

It is easier to think of these kinds of cases as clear cut because it allows people to avoid addressing the reality of the situation. The fact is that this is a fairly complicated case and the police and state have only made that worse with their improper investigations and unethical motions.

[FDInLaw]

If this case was simple it would have been resolved by now. The process is moving slow because the judge is not keen on jumping the gun, much to Carlyon's dismay. Any defense attorney worth his license would review the reports handed to him and get his own experts' opinions before making a decision. Neither Brewer or Wood would approach Eyrn and try to coax her into accepting a plea deal without having done that.

It is easier to think of these kinds of cases as clear cut because it allows people to avoid addressing the reality of the situation. The fact is that this is a fairly complicated case and the police and state have only made that worse with their improper investigations and unethical motions.
Excellent post. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm not sure what to think at this point.

[JusticeDawg©]

This is looking bad for the boy.
All defense really needed for a motion to dismiss was the little bit of simple gun and casings evidence. Didn't take long to read that.
Mr. Brewer must know the State's competency report findings, and thinks it will create a problem with the judge.
He delayed to consider a plea or to plan strategy.

You are so wrong. You will see. Defense handed in Discovery too.



moo

[dgfred]

I only have one and no, to date he hasn't. But then again, he isn't left home alone for hours either.


I believe 'isn't left home alone for hours either' is the big statement here.
You also have to worry about friends and neighbors kids.
What about the guns and ammo? Could CR's friends come over? What
about the neighbors kid? Just seems dangerous and unnecessary to me.

[mrrogers]

Because your post said:



If one denys both ways (you did not specify defense or pros on either) then one also grants both way. In my thinking anyway.

all it ends up is being is what it is now 2 counts 1st degree murder
he postponed the hearing on it anyway so its a moot issue

[IAMME]

I believe 'isn't left home alone for hours either' is the big statement here.
You also have to worry about friends and neighbors kids.
What about the guns and ammo? Could CR's friends come over? What
about the neighbors kid? Just seems dangerous and unnecessary to me.


ITA! and the question isn't "could" they come over, noone was there to stop them!! The question is DID they come over, exactly how many children did these irresponsible parents put in danger??? IMO

[mrrogers]

To be fair all around Judge Roca won't dismiss either charge. I think you're right.
He already knows he's going to rule the boy incompetent on the 6th and any 'substantive issue' will be put aside today. (I learned this from listening to all you people who know about these things.)

Hope we get some more evidence today though. And he rules on the defence motion to suppress the search warrant(s).

i think youve probably stated his plan exactly,dont hold your breath on the evidence

[mrrogers]

Perhaps he'll go ahead and rule dismissed with predjudice on both counts so he will not have to go through the rest of the trial. The DA opened the door for that course of action. Then, maybe someone will come up with the truth.


all he did is postpone the hearing on withdrawal
so he probably wont rule on the withdrawal and find the boy incompetent to stand trial

i hope he doesnt end up in the states juvenile correction system till hes 18

[Hawk]

I've been reading posts here for awhile now written by folks with 'vast years of knowledge and experience' and nobody has been right yet. So I reckon I can post a guess that's as close to the truth as anyone else.

This case is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard of. There's too many dumba.. laws written by too many dumba.. elected lawyer politicians from the US Senate all the way down to city counsel members.
Common sense and human compassion has yielded to big bucks and undeserved popularity!

I'm sorry to sound hateful. Present company excluded of course.

[PensiveOne]

You are so wrong. You will see. Defense handed in Discovery too.



moo

I hope you are right JD...I am looking on the bright side. I was hoping for a bombshell, instead more delays. When does the clock start ticking again? Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock.

[mrrogers]

With this case, I believe anything is possible.

thats for sure,ive been told no further investigation is being done
i just read this story of a guy being killed and 7 years later they find out itwas his neighbor:w00t:

[bkwits]

I was inferring that the poster in question had taken up residence in LaLa Land as opposed to "reality" where she claims. If this is in fact a infraction of the rules I will gladly take my lumps like a big girl.

Personally, in my TOS I would limit the number of times any poster can use the :tonguewag: icon. This is not a frivolous case of missing cookies or such. A young boy's life hangs in the balance and I find the disregard for his rights alarming. JMO

I totally agree with your last two sentences, and am not opposed to getting rid of the toungue was icon. Maybe because I was raised in a different genration than most of the posters here. hammer

[Crispy]

I hope you are right JD...I am looking on the bright side. I was hoping for a bombshell, instead more delays. When does the clock start ticking again? Tick, Tock, Tick, Tock.

I would think the clock would start again when he lifts the stay. jmo

[bkwits]

thats for sure,ive been told no further investigation is being done
i just read this story of a guy being killed and 7 years later they find out itwas his neighbor:w00t:

Many years ago,a friend of my uncle and aunt was accused of murdering his wife. I don't remember the details, but he spent every dime of his savings, but I think he never went to trial. The killer was later determined to be a serial killer who was rampaging So. Cal.

[PensiveOne]

I would think the clock would start again when he lifts the stay. jmo

So that would be after the competency hearing, right? They have 45 days? So does anybody remember how many they had left when the just stopped the clock?

[JusticeDawg©]

all he did is postpone the hearing on withdrawal so he probably wont rule on the withdrawal and find the boy incompetent to stand trial

i hope he doesnt end up in the states juvenile correction system till hes 18

withdrawal ???

[JD1974]

first new's
http://www.kpho.com/news/18593800/detail.html



Ohhh could the judge be waiting for those pesky competency reports??? :thumbup:

[Crispy]

So that would be after the competency hearing, right? They have 45 days? So does anybody remember how many they had left when the just stopped the clock?

He started the stay sometime (say that ten times real fast!) around Dec. 8th. He was charged around the 7th or 8th of Nov. right?

[PensiveOne]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx

[Hawk]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx


Thank GOD!

Maybe some of those lawyers ain't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!

[Jacobtk]

So that would be after the competency hearing, right? They have 45 days? So does anybody remember how many they had left when the just stopped the clock?

About 8 or 9 days. I do not if the court counts the weekends or not.

[PensiveOne]

Thank GOD!

Maybe some of those lawyers ain't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!

This has to be a good thing, right? I mean the judge wouldn't let him out if there was tons of evidence proving he did it...would he?

[wolfi_2]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx




that's are great news!

[JusticeDawg©]

Thank GOD!

Maybe some of those lawyers ain't so bad after all!!!!!!!!!

Will you doubt me again my friend? :smile:

[Hawk]

This has to be a good thing, right? I mean the judge wouldn't let him out if there was tons of evidence proving he did it...would he?


IT'S A GREAT THING! Guess they'll sort out the rest as they go along.

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm shocked!:w00t:

I told you he was going to be released. What part of that didn't you understand?

[PensiveOne]

AWESOME!!! Doing the Happy Dance!!!! Wonderful news!!!
:wub:

Me, too...I got my bombshell after all. Thank you God!

[wolfi_2]

So that would be after the competency hearing, right? They have 45 days? So does anybody remember how many they had left when the just stopped the clock?


As I know, the clock should start again if the boy`s competence is examined, but maybe I'm wrong. Normally both evaluations are back right now, so normally the clock must start today again IMO. If the clock is starting today, I think there are only 15 days left, the last day would be the 13th February!

[Jacobtk]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx

Interesting. I suppose that undermines the notion that the evidence conclusively points to the boy. I presumed as much would happen based on the dead silence, but I am a born cynic and conditioned pessimist so I did not expect it to occur. I wonder what else might occur during the rest of the day. It is only 2:30 in St Johns, so something more may happen.

[Crispy]

Well, this is great news!

[Hawk]

Will you doubt me again my friend? :smile:

Not today I won't! My frustration has subsided greatly.

[PensiveOne]

As I know, the clock should start again if the boy`s competence is examined, but maybe I'm wrong. Normally both evaluations are back right now, so normally the clock must start today again IMO. If the clock is starting today, I think there are only 15 days left, the last day would be the 13th February!

I hope he is out for good. They haven't got too much time to play around with delays, then.

[PensiveOne]

Interesting. I suppose that undermines the notion that the evidence conclusively points to the boy. I presumed as much would happen based on the dead silence, but I am a born cynic and conditioned pessimist so I did not expect it to occur. I wonder what else might occur during the rest of the day. It is only 2:30 in St Johns, so something more may happen.

As long as it's something good!

[wolfi_2]

I hope he is out for good. They haven't got too much time to play around with delays, then.

that´s what I hope also! going back in a single isolated cell must be horrible!
So this news will make me sleep better, good night for today!

[IAMME]

Thank God!! I cant wait til the evidence is realeased and we get to witness some crow-eating.....Wonder if any arrests will be made today.......

[Hawk]

Can't find the report on any other AZ station. Seems it would be everywhere .

Got any other links?

[JusticeDawg©]

You were right. Totally and 100% about him being released today.

Linda, are you ok?

Does the crow taste good? :confused:

[JusticeDawg©]

Can't find the report on any other AZ station. Seems it would be everywhere .

Got any other links?Big John is yapping. It will be up on video soon.

[Jacobtk]

I think Brewer is going to take his time looking through all of the evidence and filing some his own motions-like motions to dismiss Count 1 and Count 2 with prejudice. He wants to exonerate this boy completely.

That is my guess. I cannot imagine the judge released the boy just for another quick furlough, particularly not after the state handed in all their evidence. My best assumption is that either the evidence was lacking or the boy's attorney presented something that points away from the boy, the latter of which would be rather impressive considering what little they had to begin with.

Then, he will hopefully give Eryn a card to a attorney that is good at suing municipalities.

If he needs any help he should contact the lawyers for the two Chicago boys. They would know some excellent civil law attorneys.

[FDInLaw]

Interesting. I suppose that undermines the notion that the evidence conclusively points to the boy. I presumed as much would happen based on the dead silence, but I am a born cynic and conditioned pessimist so I did not expect it to occur. I wonder what else might occur during the rest of the day. It is only 2:30 in St Johns, so something more may happen.I wonder! On the edge of my seat here!!!

[IAMME]

I always said that I hoped I was wrong and I meant it.

I hope the evidence proves in fact that he didn't do it.

I still think he's guilty.

I'll wait and see.

Hopefully you wont have to wait very long!!

[Hawk]

Big John is yapping. It will be up on video soon.

I think we should all e-mail Mr. Brewer and congratulate him!
I'm going to right now.

[muska]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx

I am sooooo happy!!!! I have been reading all day, trying to keep up but had to sign in to just say........Wow! Thank God!

[muska]

that´s what I hope also! going back in a single isolated cell must be horrible!
So this news will make me sleep better, good night for today!

Good night! Maybe there is some hope for us here!

[JusticeDawg©]

Yeah...it said in the article that they weren't shocked but were stunned???

Maybe they are stunned that as it turns out the kid is innocent and SJPD dropped the ball BIG TIME!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Jacobtk]

Yeah...it said in the article that they weren't shocked but were stunned???

Maybe they are stunned that as it turns out the kid is innocent and SJPD dropped the ball BIG TIME!!!

As much as I do not wish to undermine the feelings of victims and their families, the truth is that they usually are not thinking about the case reasonably. Unless the person accused of the act is very close to them, the police can suggest Jesus Christ committed the act and they will accept it because they need the closure. The bigger problem will be if the boy is innocent. They will have to confront the images they probably have of this boy killing both men and confront the things they have said about him. If I were Eryn, I would keep the boy as far from the Romans as possible.

[IAMME]

linda and gentlebreeze-

Both of you have said that you will admit if you are wrong.....Will you both give an apology? Not to other posters on this board, but to the boy and his mother......Just wondering......When the evidence is released of course....

[JusticeDawg©]

I think we should all e-mail Mr. Brewer and congratulate him!
I'm going to right now.

Don't you dare forget my buddy Wood. :biggrin:

Ron@AzCrimeDog.net

[Hawk]

Don't you dare forget my buddy Wood. :biggrin:

Ron@AzCrimeDog.net

No, let's not forget Mr. Wood!

[GentleBreeze]

I always said that I hoped I was wrong and I meant it.

I hope the evidence proves in fact that he didn't do it.

I still think he's guilty.

I'll wait and see.

I have never had a problem with him being released while all this is unfolding, but I would think if the evidence given in the past few days, exonerated him, then the Judge would just dismiss the charges and that would be it. Not continuing forward with the motion to dismiss count one nor setting up another hearing date for the experts in the competency hearing to testify.

imoo

[muska]

As much as I do not wish to undermine the feelings of victims and their families, the truth is that they usually are not thinking about the case reasonably. Unless the person accused of the act is very close to them, the police can suggest Jesus Christ committed the act and they will accept it because they need the closure. The bigger problem will be if the boy is innocent. They will have to confront the images they probably have of this boy killing both men and confront the things they have said about him. If I were Eryn, I would keep the boy as far from the Romans as possible.

The Romans have not been as bad as A LOT of other people, but I know what you mean.

I remember reading in the Ryan Harris case that Ryan's mother said that the police had her so convinced that those little boys killed her daughter that she just hated them more than she ever thought she could even hate an adult. The police can be very convincing.

[Hawk]

Guess they'll cover it on the 6:00 news.
Might have a few more details.

I am elated!

[FDInLaw]

I'm doing a happy dance but would sure like to hear more details about what is going on. . .

[FDInLaw]

The Romans have not been as bad as A LOT of other people, but I know what you mean.

I remember reading in the Ryan Harris case that Ryan's mother said that the police had her so convinced that those little boys killed her daughter that she just hated them more than she ever thought she could even hate an adult. The police can be very convincing. Yep, they sure can. *sigh*

[Hawk]

I have never had a problem with him being released while all this is unfolding, but I would think if the evidence given in the past few days, exonerated him, then the Judge would just dismiss the charges and that would be it. Not continuing forward with the motion to dismiss count one nor setting up another hearing date for the experts in the competency hearing to testify.

imoo

But don't you think that something major has been revealed? The judge could have let him out long ago.

[Hawk]

No, I don't.

Why did he let him out?

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm doing a happy dance but would sure like to hear more details about what is going on. . .

Lack of Evidence.................

GAG!!!

MOOOQQQQ

[JusticeDawg©]

But don't you think that something major has been revealed? The judge could have let him out long ago.

I have posted it 3 times today.

[JusticeDawg©]

linda and gentlebreeze-

Both of you have said that you will admit if you are wrong.....Will you both give an apology? Not to other posters on this board, but to the boy and his mother......Just wondering......When the evidence is released of course....

I await the moment...:smile:

[GentleBreeze]

linda and gentlebreeze-

Both of you have said that you will admit if you are wrong.....Will you both give an apology? Not to other posters on this board, but to the boy and his mother......Just wondering......When the evidence is released of course....

What apology is necessary at this time?

I have always said if the evidence shows he didn't do these crimes, I will gladly state I was wrong. Being wrong isn't as big a deal to me as it sure seems to be for others on message board. I have never taunted others that they must eat crow pie when it was proven they were wrong. It just doesn't matter. On message boards it is all about opinions not some contest of who was right and who was wrong.

I have always felt sympathy for Eryn. Any mother in this situation has to be in great pain.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Why would I need to apologise to the boy or his mother here on this board? Have either been reading anything I've said? If they come here and ask for one, sure....absolutely. I just don't see that happening.

I've said repeatedly that if I was wrong, I'd actually be glad. They weren't just words. I find no joy in believing this boy is guilty. I'll gladly admit I was wrong when it's been proven that I am.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Sadly, yes, she has.

Why should SHE have to ASK?
She isn't like that!

[IAMME]

Why would I need to apologise to the boy or his mother here on this board? Have either been reading anything I've said? If they come here and ask for one, sure....absolutely. I just don't see that happening.

I've said repeatedly that if I was wrong, I'd actually be glad. They weren't just words. I find no joy in believing this boy is guilty. I'll gladly admit I was wrong when it's been proven that I am.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Well bc you publicly made several accusations regarding this child and his mother.....and if it were me, I would feel it was the right thing to then publicly apologize....but maybe thats just me.....If and when the evidence comes out if it clears either of the widows I will apologize for ever suspecting them...

[muska]

I have posted it 3 times today.

The discovery from defense? If not, any chance you want to post it a fourth time?? Hey - I'd put a smiley face except for Coldwater's post!