1-29 Hearings

[GentleBreeze]

But don't you think that something major has been revealed? The judge could have let him out long ago.

I have no clue. If something major had happened the Judge is well within his rights to drop the charges and dismiss the case today. I can't understand if it were something major why he would continue forward to the hearing to dismiss count one and the hearing for incompetency.

Since the case is being delayed again maybe the Judge thought it best that he be out during this time.

imoo

[Pag Boi]

Don't you dare forget my buddy Wood. :biggrin:

Ron@AzCrimeDog.net

We need another round of Amens!


Usually, when a defense atty says "it's in the best interest of my client," it means just that. An uninformed, outside party with no knowledge of the case (or case law for that matter) interpreting its meaning for message board posters notwithstanding. all JMOO Tho


eta: Rock on Dawy & mrrogers.

[JusticeDawg©]

The discovery from defense? If not, any chance you want to post it a fourth time?? Hey - I'd put a smiley face except for Coldwater's post!

You got it.

That and the ballistics bumble&@#$.

[IAMME]

I have no clue. If something major had happened the Judge is well within his rights to drop the charges and dismiss the case today. I can't understand if it were something major why he would continue forward to the hearing to dismiss count one and the hearing for incompetency.

Since the case is being delayed again maybe the Judge thought it best that he be out during this time.

imoo

I already said this but perhaps they are acting in regard to the boys safety........that is what I felt like the defense meant by in the best interestof their client.....no evidence for that just instinct.....

[GentleBreeze]

I agree with you and I just don't get it?:confused:

Me either. I sure didn't see any personal apologies given to Mark or Archie Lunsford. Sure didn't see any given to Steve Greone or Dan Horowitz or Jennifer Wilbanks fiancé, when they were all accused of being murderers by the majority of posters here, when they weren't.:shrug:

imo

[Pag Boi]

Either stay on topic and stop with all the smiley's, that's childish & if the only way to stop it is to deny access to you I will. And I will close the board for a break. Your choice.

Bumping

TOS and all that jazz


Please stick to this case. TIA

[rusure?]

He started the stay sometime (say that ten times real fast!) around Dec. 8th. He was charged around the 7th or 8th of Nov. right?

They arrested him on the 6th of Nov.

[rusure?]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx

Oh my goodness. I knew it. I was gone for an hour and a half this afternoon and really good news happens. I am so happy for this boy and his mom! Scrape me off the ceiling!!!!!

[JusticeDawg©]

I already said this but perhaps they are acting in regard to the boys safety........that is what I felt like the defense meant by in the best interestof their client.....no evidence for that just instinct.....

Oh, I agree. But you knew I would.

[JusticeDawg©]

We need another round of Amens!


Usually, when a defense atty says "it's in the best interest of my client," it means just that. An uninformed, outside party with no knowledge of the case (or case law for that matter) interpreting its meaning for message board posters notwithstanding. all JMOO Tho


eta: Rock on Dawy & mrrogers.

Amen, and thank you!

[Hawk]

Apparently the release was suppose to be unknown to the public. ABC15 found out and ran with it.

[rusure?]

Will you doubt me again my friend? :smile:

I know I won't!!!! This is the best news I've had all week!!!! Well, all 3 months!!!!

[JusticeDawg©]

Apparently the release was suppose to be unknown to the public. ABC15 found out and ran with it.

She was the one contacting me about Tiffany and Nicole. Remember?

[Crispy]

Apparently the release was suppose to be unknown to the public. ABC15 found out and ran with it.

None of the other sites have it up yet. I wish we'd get a little bit more info.

[PensiveOne]

She was the one contacting me about Tiffany and Nicole. Remember?

I was just getting ready to ask you that! Seems to be the best reporter in the area...at least she seems to have contacts with info.

[rusure?]

That is my guess. I cannot imagine the judge released the boy just for another quick furlough, particularly not after the state handed in all their evidence. My best assumption is that either the evidence was lacking or the boy's attorney presented something that points away from the boy, the latter of which would be rather impressive considering what little they had to begin with.



If he needs any help he should contact the lawyers for the two Chicago boys. They would know some excellent civil law attorneys.

I'm wondering if the evidence showed it wasn't his gun or his prints and that's why he's out. The DA may proceed because they still have the confession to use if the boy testifies.

[Hawk]

None of the other sites have it up yet. I wish we'd get a little bit more info.

That's odd isn't it? A story this big.

[FDInLaw]

Apparently the release was suppose to be unknown to the public. ABC15 found out and ran with it. As it should be. If this child is no longer the prime suspect, he is now one of the most valuable witnesses. . . he may need protection. I'm still waiting for more details as to why he was released. If another person(s) has been implicated I doubt we will hear much until they are in custody (at least I hope not).

[muska]

She was the one contacting me about Tiffany and Nicole. Remember?

I hadn't noticed that.........and that makes it even better!

I wonder if it was suppose to be kept quiet.........and if so, why?

[PensiveOne]

That's odd isn't it? A story this big.

Yeah, it is odd. I wonder if there is more news coming yet tonight.

[GentleBreeze]

OMG, I just got home and read the GOOD NEWS!

I am thrilled for this little guy!!!!! I have tears of joy for this boy and his MOTHER ERYN!

I hope the person(s) responsible are getting nervous.....

I also hope someone in LE is doing a follow-up on their own...You know..someone with a conscience who hasn't felt right about this whole situation from the get-go.

I became interested in this case much later than most of you. I just want to say "THANK YOU" to all the regulars for posting all of your knowledge and explaining in detail the little things....It really helped see the bigger picture! I've learned about guns, the law, etc.

Hotnostril & Gentle Breeze... We can't all agree on every case and with everyone seeing things differently...it makes people "think"...You've both been very helpful as well.

Thank you for being gracious and filled with commonsense. You are right, we can't all agree on every case and oh how boring it would be if we all did imo.

I am glad the boy is out. There is no reason for him to stay locked up now that the case is once again delayed.

When is the competency matter to happen? February ??

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

I hadn't noticed that.........and that makes it even better!

I wonder if it was suppose to be kept quiet.........and if so, why?

Danger ????

[Jacobtk]

I'm wondering if the evidence showed it wasn't his gun or his prints and that's why he's out. The DA may proceed because they still have the confession to use if the boy testifies.

That seems to be the best guess. My other opinion is that there was some issue with the evidence in terms of how it was handled. I doubt Carlyon will drop the charges unless going forward would be an utter mistake.

[muska]

Danger ????

I hope not!!!

[Hawk]

As it should be. If this child is no longer the prime suspect, he is now one of the most valuable witnesses. . . he may need protection. I'm still waiting for more details as to why he was released. If another person(s) has been implicated I doubt we will hear much until they are in custody (at least I hope not).

Where do you suppose he is? Wait. Maybe we shouldn't know.

[Jacobtk]

As it should be. If this child is no longer the prime suspect, he is now one of the most valuable witnesses. . . he may need protection.

If that is the case, the state has effectively damaged their chances of charging anyone and winning the case without solid, unquestionable evidence. Any skilled defense attorney would point to the boy in a heartbeat. Likewise, Avila and Neckels have caused the boy enough psychological trauma that he probably would not want to talk to any officer about what he saw (if he witnessed it).

I'm still waiting for more details as to why he was released. If another person(s) has been implicated I doubt we will hear much until they are in custody (at least I hope not).

I doubt you will. No prosecutor would want that embarrassment and the boy's attorneys would not reveal that in order to protect the boy.

[GentleBreeze]

I hope not!!!

Well it seems only reasonable that they would protect him no matter the reason.

I expect not all are going to be happy knowing he is out and about.

imoo

[bkwits]

That's odd isn't it? A story this big.

Maybe it is just big to us. I have relatives in the Phoenix area, and the one I correspond with sounded vague, saying she seemed to remember something about the case. Now ask them about the AZ Cardinals and that's a different story.

Face it, we are hooked on this case.

[JusticeDawg©]

Where do you suppose he is? Wait. Maybe we shouldn't know.

I am sure he is safe.

moo

[Hawk]

Maybe it is just big to us. I have relatives in the Phoenix area, and the one I correspond with sounded vague, saying she seemed to remember something about the case. Now ask them about the AZ Cardinals and that's a different story.

Face it, we are hooked on this case.

That's true. I'd almost kicked my glue sniffing habit til this thing came along!

[GentleBreeze]

Maybe it is just big to us. I have relatives in the Phoenix area, and the one I correspond with sounded vague, saying she seemed to remember something about the case. Now ask them about the AZ Cardinals and that's a different story.

Face it, we are hooked on this case.

I think you are right. There hasn't even been one article in our local paper about this case.

No one I know has even mentioned it.

imoo

[IAMME]

Where do you suppose he is? Wait. Maybe we shouldn't know.

I hope and pray that the judge let his mother take him home, far far away from st johns....and if that is the case....Godspeed Eryn, I'll tell you what my mama always tells me on trips....."Drive safe, but don' let anyone pass you honey!!"

[Hawk]

Are we to assume now that the casings, or some of the casings, didn't match the Chipmunk?

If so, can we resume our conversation on suspects, or is that premature?
I could just argue with myself but I did that all morning.

[muska]

5 o'clock in Arizona, maybe they'll have something on some of the evening news shows.

[IAMME]

and isn't it a sad day when the masses don't even bat an eye at an 8 year old accused of double murder?

Yes it is. It is sadder that they don't bat an eye at a justice system that spends three months trampling on the rights, and generally abusing an 8 year old...IMO

[bkwits]

and isn't it a sad day when the masses don't even bat an eye at an 8 year old accused of double murder?

I didn't say that, Linda. I said not everyone is following the case closely like we are.

[Hawk]

I hope and pray that the judge let his mother take him home, far far away from st johns....and if that is the case....Godspeed Eryn, I'll tell you what my mama always tells me on trips....."Drive safe, but don' let anyone pass you honey!!"


Good advice. Unfortunately my teenage granddaughters take it literally. They scare the .... outta folks.
If he was allowed to leave the state it seems the case against him is about over. Don't you think he'd be required to stay in Apache county? I don't know and don't even have a guess.

[Hawk]

5 o'clock in Arizona, maybe they'll have something on some of the evening news shows.

Don't count on it. Maybe ABC15. And it's not even on their home page (yet).

[IAMME]

Are we to assume now that the casings, or some of the casings, didn't match the Chipmunk?

If so, can we resume our conversation on suspects, or is that premature?
I could just argue with myself but I did that all morning.

I think that something like that would be a safe assumption.....

Lets start with who had motive.....

Tiffany-fought with VR the night b4 the murders, and it has been reported that there were domestic violence calls to the house previously....BC of her or him????

Tanya- TR was having an affair

Candy- the side dish that TR proposed to...

Drug dealers??

Gang members??

A break-in gone bad?

Some combo of the above????

I think it is safe to R/O Eryn, since the judge at least found that she was fit to release the boy to......

Anyone else??? I lean towards the widows, bc statistically that is more likely, and bc both seem to have a motive...although we don't know much about Tiffanys.

[bkwits]

That's true. I'd almost kicked my glue sniffing habit til this thing came along!


Yep, I hear ya Hawk. I thought you were on something. LOL

Do you think this release actually is tied to the validity of the evidence against C, or rather that he has been treated so unfairly. And besides that, I assume his mom has established a home for him to go to, which was not true earlier.

I sure would like to think it is lack of evidence, but whatever I'm very glad that he is out of there.

IMO

[bkwits]

I think that something like that would be a safe assumption.....

Lets start with who had motive.....

Tiffany-fought with VR the night b4 the murders, and it has been reported that there were domestic violence calls to the house previously....BC of her or him????

Tanya- TR was having an affair

Candy- the side dish that TR proposed to...

Drug dealers??

Gang members??

A break-in gone bad?

Some combo of the above????

I think it is safe to R/O Eryn, since the judge at least found that she was fit to release the boy to......

Anyone else??? I lean towards the widows, bc statistically that is more likely, and bc both seem to have a motive...although we don't know much about Tiffanys.

I lean toward revenge, or random break in. More towards someone that was after Tim, but maybe both of them (esp if it was someone from work from the bar fight),

[Hawk]

Yep, I hear ya Hawk. I thought you were on something. LOL

Do you think this release actually is tied to the validity of the evidence against C, or rather that he has been treated so unfairly. And besides that, I assume his mom has established a home for him to go to, which was not true earlier.

I sure would like to think it is lack of evidence, but whatever I'm very glad that he is out of there.

IMO

Wouldn't it have to be? I don't know.
Judge Roca could have let him out of jail weeks ago. I don't think he suddenly had a change of heart. Do you?

[Hawk]

I lean toward revenge, or random break in. More towards someone that was after Tim, but maybe both of them (esp if it was someone from work from the bar fight),

If we just knew if one gun was used or two it'd narrow down the list some.

But if the Chipmunk wasn't used I'd vote for the drug users looking for something in Mr. Romans room and in his shirt pockets.
If that's the case, where was young Romero?
I don't think Ms. Devall did it.

That's my vote (for now anyway).

[bkwits]

I know...I said it. Most people did catch it on the news when the story first broke and never gave it a second thought.

Well, that's not the reaction I get when I talk to people about it. There are many horrible stories out there that I have just barely heard about. Everyday, there are horrendous stories of murders, fires, people killing children and babies in my morning Chicago Tribune. Other people are busy trying to make a living, taking care of their families. Also their is a lot going on in sports and politics (esp in IL). Why beat yourself up like we all do over this case, and others. ?

JMO

[bkwits]

Yeah, I do. I still think he's guilty.

What a surprise.

IMO

[bkwits]

Wouldn't it have to be? I don't know.
Judge Roca could have let him out of jail weeks ago. I don't think he suddenly had a change of heart. Do you?

It was talked about a couple of weeks ago. I thought that Eryn went home to pack and move to AZ so that the court could release him to her custody.

Besides stacking the case against the child (by LE), there is the issue of keeping him locked in solitary for so long.

I don't know. Maybe the Dawg knows ......DAWG....

[Hawk]

Here's a news clip;


http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326794

[muska]

They just had a short report on Channel 3. Mike Watkiss reporting. He said he didn't know the duration or conditions of the release. And that the prosecution's psychiatrist's report apparently matches the defense report. And that the judge doesn't seem very close to any decision making.

You beat me!!

[GentleBreeze]

I think that something like that would be a safe assumption.....

Lets start with who had motive.....

Tiffany-fought with VR the night b4 the murders, and it has been reported that there were domestic violence calls to the house previously....BC of her or him????

Tanya- TR was having an affair

Candy- the side dish that TR proposed to...

Drug dealers??

Gang members??

A break-in gone bad?

Some combo of the above????

I think it is safe to R/O Eryn, since the judge at least found that she was fit to release the boy to......

Anyone else??? I lean towards the widows, bc statistically that is more likely, and bc both seem to have a motive...although we don't know much about Tiffanys.

I am not sure that is statistically true.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm

About 11% of murder victims were determined to have been killed by an intimate.

Victim/Offender Relationship, 1976-2005

All homicides,
1976-2005

Percent Number

Total 100.0% 594,276
Intimate 10.9% 64,529
Non-intimate 53.9% 320,554
Undetermined 35.2% 209,194


imo

[muska]

I think that something like that would be a safe assumption.....

Lets start with who had motive.....

Tiffany-fought with VR the night b4 the murders, and it has been reported that there were domestic violence calls to the house previously....BC of her or him????

Tanya- TR was having an affair

Candy- the side dish that TR proposed to...

Drug dealers??

Gang members??

A break-in gone bad?

Some combo of the above????

I think it is safe to R/O Eryn, since the judge at least found that she was fit to release the boy to......

Anyone else??? I lean towards the widows, bc statistically that is more likely, and bc both seem to have a motive...although we don't know much about Tiffanys.

I am not sure that is statistically true.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm

About 11% of murder victims were determined to have been killed by an intimate.

Victim/Offender Relationship, 1976-2005

All homicides,
1976-2005

Percent Number

Total 100.0% 594,276
Intimate 10.9% 64,529
Non-intimate 53.9% 320,554
Undetermined 35.2% 209,194


imo

So, it's more likely, statistically, to have been commited by a stranger. I definitely like the idea of a burglary gone bad. Not that long ago, 3 people were beaten to death in a house not far from here. They walked in on a couple of burglars - middle of the day.

[Cherishlove]

He has been released!

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx

That is so awsome I'm so glad he is out, that is a good sign I believe...

[Jacobtk]

Here's a news clip;


http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326794

I think it is pretty telling that the state's own expert essentially reached the same conclusion as the defense's expert. That probably played a role in the boy being released today, among other things. It also in some ways explains the suddenly silence on Carlyon's part.

[GentleBreeze]

I think it is pretty telling that the state's own expert essentially reached the same conclusion as the defense's expert. That probably played a role in the boy being released today, among other things. It also in some ways explains the suddenly silence on Carlyon's part.

Why would it explain Carylon's part? The motion to dismiss hearing is to be held a week from now.

imoo

[dgfred]

OMG, I just got home and read the GOOD NEWS!

I am thrilled for this little guy!!!!! I have tears of joy for this boy and his MOTHER ERYN!

I hope the person(s) responsible are getting nervous.....

I also hope someone in LE is doing a follow-up on their own...You know..someone with a conscience who hasn't felt right about this whole situation from the get-go.

I became interested in this case much later than most of you. I just want to say "THANK YOU" to all the regulars for posting all of your knowledge and explaining in detail the little things....It really helped see the bigger picture! I've learned about guns, the law, etc.

Hotnostril & Gentle Breeze... We can't all agree on every case and with everyone seeing things differently...it makes people "think"...You've both been very helpful as well.

Great post and I agree, hooray for the kid. Hopefully there are new suspects, that would be excellent news too.

Now we can get right back at 'I agree to disagree about everything'

[tif]

I just logged on here after watching that ridiculous Blagojevich circus on CNN. It's nice to have some good news. I'm very happy for CR and his mother, but I think, sadly, that he is going to have this hanging over his head for the rest of his life unless someone else is convicted. I doubt there will be a conviction short of a drunken confession in a bar.

[Hawk]

I think it is pretty telling that the state's own expert essentially reached the same conclusion as the defense's expert. That probably played a role in the boy being released today, among other things. It also in some ways explains the suddenly silence on Carlyon's part.

It's surprising how we get a tidbit from one news report then another tidbit somewhere else, etc, etc,. The reporter on the video has been with the case from the beginning and is well known in AZ so he might have an inside scoop. That's the first confirmation on the state's report I've heard.

If the state's expert confirms the defense expert's conclusion how likely is it Judge Roca will go rouge?
Looks like this case is winding down, even if it's not officially over.

[GentleBreeze]

Here's a news clip;


http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=326794

I wonder what Wood meant when he said we think we can resolve this case. He also says he still has a client charged with double homicide.

Does he mean he thinks the competency issue will resolve it legally?

If he is never tried I don't think that will ever resolve the case or whether he was guilty or innocent.

imoo

[dgfred]

LE might already have some good ideas on suspects, I wish we knew.

I don't see Burglers as doing it, what would they have been after? Now drug related is another story.

Hmmmmm?????

[Kara]

Reading as fast as I can...is it true? Verified? The boy has been released??

Any futher info?

[Hawk]

[QUOTE=GentleBreeze;12718922]I wonder what Wood meant when he said we think we can resolve this case. He also says he still has a client charged with double homicide.

Does he mean he thinks the competency issue will resolve it legally?

If he is never tried I don't think that will ever resolve the case or whether he was guilty or innocent.

imoo[/QUOTE

This may not be an evidence issue at all but a competency issue.

[dgfred]

Reading as fast as I can...is it true? Verified? The boy has been released??

Any futher info?


YES, YES, YES and NO.

[Details]

Good news, a great day! So very overdue - I wonder what changed the judge's mind - competency reports, initial forensic results, or simply finally realizing no 8 year old belongs in juvie.

[muska]

It's surprising how we get a tidbit from one news report then another tidbit somewhere else, etc, etc,. The reporter on the video has been with the case from the beginning and is well known in AZ so he might have an inside scoop. That's the first confirmation on the state's report I've heard.

If the state's expert confirms the defense expert's conclusion how likely is it Judge Roca will go rouge?
Looks like this case is winding down, even if it's not officially over.

I have been trying not to get my hopes up, but right now I feel pretty good about this. I can't really see Judge Roca agreeing to Carlyon's motion after agreeing to release the boy. But I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.........

[Kara]

YES, YES, YES and NO.
TY!! So where is the hot nostril that has been so adamently convinced of this child's guilt?

Nevermind....it's not important.

[muska]

TY!! So where is the hot nostril that has been so adamently convinced of this child's guilt?

Nevermind....it's not important.

Motion to dismiss has been delayed one week. Competency hearing delayed for about 2 weeks.

[Jacobtk]

Why would it explain Carylon's part? The motion to dismiss hearing is to be held a week from now.

As I stated before, when things do not turn out how attorneys want, they generally go silent, especially if they have been overly vocal before. If the results came back against him, they undermine his case. It is not just a matter of the expert finding that the boy cannot understand the proceedings. The expert would have to justify it and in doing so would likely cite the boy's age, IQ and general mental condition as the reason. Depending on Carlyon's opinion of the boy's motive, the expert's finding could refute that, particularly if the expert found that the boy lacked any emotional issues inconsistent with children his age.

This coupled with evidence reports that may not work in his favor (which does not mean they exonerate the boy, but that they are inconclusive) would likely prompt him to keep quiet.

I wonder what Wood meant when he said we think we can resolve this case. He also says he still has a client charged with double homicide.

That is just legal speak for "We think we can win the case." The bit about the charges implies that Wood believes the boy is innocent and perhaps that he can reasonably demonstrate that.

[Hawk]

Here's another video. Nothing new. Just strange that the Court Clerk would not mention that the boy was going to be released.
Secret didn't last long though...........




http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type=mavenfull&id=videopage&videoID=1017193471

[Kara]

Motion to dismiss has been delayed one week. Competency hearing delayed for about 2 weeks.Thanks. I am so happy that his boy has been released. Guilty or innocent it had to be very bad for his mental health to be locked up in isolation like he has been.

[GentleBreeze]

Here's another video. Nothing new. Just strange that the Court Clerk would not mention that the boy was going to be released.
Secret didn't last long though...........




http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type=mavenfull&id=videopage&videoID=1017193471

I don't think they mentioned it in any of the court documents when he went on Christmas furlough either.

Wasn't that also held in chambers and not in the courtroom?

imoo

[Crispy]

I don't think they mentioned it in any of the court documents when he went on Christmas furlough either.

Wasn't that also held in chambers and not in the courtroom?

imoo

All requests for furlough are filed under seal and discussed in chambers.

[GentleBreeze]

As I stated before, when things do not turn out how attorneys want, they generally go silent, especially if they have been overly vocal before. If the results came back against him, they undermine his case. It is not just a matter of the expert finding that the boy cannot understand the proceedings. The expert would have to justify it and in doing so would likely cite the boy's age, IQ and general mental condition as the reason. Depending on Carlyon's opinion of the boy's motive, the expert's finding could refute that, particularly if the expert found that the boy lacked any emotional issues inconsistent with children his age.

This coupled with evidence reports that may not work in his favor (which does not mean they exonerate the boy, but that they are inconclusive) would likely prompt him to keep quiet.



That is just legal speak for "We think we can win the case." The bit about the charges implies that Wood believes the boy is innocent and perhaps that he can reasonably demonstrate that.

I don't see where Carylon has been overly vocal.

But it doesn't seem that he plans to remain quiet if a hearing to dismiss is going to be held in just a week.

imoo

[rusure?]

And that the prosecution's psychiatrist's report apparently matches the defense report. And that the judge doesn't seem very close to any decision making.


I am not surprised by this. Of course the prosecution's psychiatrist's report apparently matches the defense report. This may be why it has taken so long to find out the results. The DA dragging his feet.

[Jacobtk]

I don't see where Carylon has been overly vocal.

Carlyon released quite a bit information about the case until the beginning of this month. In fact, he released all the reports he had containing anything remotely incriminating the boy. In a normal case, the prosecutor would not do that.

But it doesn't seem that he plans to remain quiet if a hearing to dismiss is going to be held in just a week.

I am not talking about in court. I am talking about out of court.

[rusure?]

I don't see where Carylon has been overly vocal.

But it doesn't seem that he plans to remain quiet if a hearing to dismiss is going to be held in just a week.

imoo

If Carylon had anything to stand on he would have gotten more information against the boy out of the court room. So far, information about his confession, what he supposedly said to the CPS person, gpr, fingerprint on box of bullets, (have I left anything out) was released when it seemed to point to the boys guilt. But, nothing has come out this month. That tells me there is not much they have to prove his guilt. The confession they let out has been shown to be coerced, gpr has been shown to be unreliable by scientists in the field and it is not said exactly where it was found on the boy's clothes, simply that 30 someodd particles were found. What has the DA got to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt???

[Hawk]

Someone had wondered earlier if Judge Roca is an elected politician. Superior court judges in Arizona are appointed, not elected. I assume that they (Donna Grimsley in Apache county), in turn, appoint the Pro Tem Judges, like Mr. Roca.


http://www.governor.state.az.us/press/2003/0312/03_12_23.pdf

[TaraCrazyHair]

Just got home and I am trying to catch up on the news ...

He has been released to his Mom, conditions unknown, right?

But the hearing on the Motion to Dismiss has been postponed until after his competency hearing?

Why has he not had that done yet?

But I am very happy he is out of lockup and can have some normalcy for a little while!

(:

[muska]

Someone had wondered earlier if Judge Roca is an elected politician. Superior court judges in Arizona are appointed, not elected. I assume that they (Donna Grimsley in Apache county), in turn, appoint the Pro Tem Judges, like Mr. Roca.


http://www.governor.state.az.us/press/2003/0312/03_12_23.pdf

In the Arizona Attorney General interview, Woods(the attorney general) said that Judge Roca was elected. He, unlike me, thought that was a good thing.

[Hawk]

Carlyon released quite a bit information about the case until the beginning of this month. In fact, he released all the reports he had containing anything remotely incriminating the boy. In a normal case, the prosecutor would not do that.



I am not talking about in court. I am talking about out of court.

He was pretty vocal in releasing information, wasn't he? Seems the State's mental expert's report slowed him down some.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I just logged on here after watching that ridiculous Blagojevich circus on CNN. It's nice to have some good news. I'm very happy for CR and his mother, but I think, sadly, that he is going to have this hanging over his head for the rest of his life unless someone else is convicted. I doubt there will be a conviction short of a drunken confession in a bar.

If they reopen the investigation into other people .. there could be a conviction

[muska]

As I stated before, when things do not turn out how attorneys want, they generally go silent, especially if they have been overly vocal before. If the results came back against him, they undermine his case. It is not just a matter of the expert finding that the boy cannot understand the proceedings. The expert would have to justify it and in doing so would likely cite the boy's age, IQ and general mental condition as the reason. Depending on Carlyon's opinion of the boy's motive, the expert's finding could refute that, particularly if the expert found that the boy lacked any emotional issues inconsistent with children his age.

This coupled with evidence reports that may not work in his favor (which does not mean they exonerate the boy, but that they are inconclusive) would likely prompt him to keep quiet.



That is just legal speak for "We think we can win the case." The bit about the charges implies that Wood believes the boy is innocent and perhaps that he can reasonably demonstrate that.

I'm casting another vote for law school. You should go...I think you would be very good!!

[JusticeDawg©]

If we just knew if one gun was used or two it'd narrow down the list some.

But if the Chipmunk wasn't used I'd vote for the drug users looking for something in Mr. Romans room and in his shirt pockets.
If that's the case, where was young Romero?
I don't think Ms. Devall did it.

That's my vote (for now anyway).


The judge would not have release him if he had info in front of him that said the chipmunk gun matched the casings with CR's fingerprints on them. Right?

[Hawk]

In the Arizona Attorney General interview, Woods(the attorney general) said that Judge Roca was elected. He, unlike me, thought that was a good thing.

I'd like to see a link to that. I've searched with every word I could think of.
Why would the Superior Court Judge be appointed and her subordinates be elected?

Not arguing. Just wondering. Maybe Roca was elected to another post in the past.

[muska]

The judge would not have release him if he had info in front of him that said the chipmunk gun matched the casings with CR's fingerprints on them. Right?

That's how I feel. He's kept him locked up all this time while things were uncertain. Would he really release him if there's finally real evidence against him? It sure doesn't seem like it.

[Hawk]

The judge would not have release him if he had info in front of him that said the chipmunk gun matched the casings with CR's fingerprints on them. Right?

Not unless it was the competency reports that Mr. Brewer pointed to and the judge intends to find the boy incompetent.
I'd like to think it was the Chipmunk evidence, and the boy has been exonerated though.
It kinda hampers our speculation about the murders without knowing the reason for release.

[JusticeDawg©]

That's how I feel. He's kept him locked up all this time while things were uncertain. Would he really release him if there's finally real evidence against him? It sure doesn't seem like it.

No way. Even the x Attorney General said that on a link posted on here last night.

[JusticeDawg©]

Not unless it was the competency reports that Mr. Brewer pointed to and the judge intends to find the boy incompetent.
I'd like to think it was the Chipmunk evidence, and the boy has been exonerated though.
It kinda hampers our speculation about the murders without knowing the reason for release.


The Clerk kind of gave it away. LOL

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm casting another vote for law school. You should go...I think you would be very good!!

He reminds me of my son. :biggrin:

[TaraCrazyHair]

The judge would not have release him if he had info in front of him that said the chipmunk gun matched the casings with CR's fingerprints on them. Right?

I can hear the Judge state that "if you dont have a confession and you don't have prints and you dont even have the right gun .. what evidence do you have for me to continue detaining this child? Nothing? Okay, then I have no other choice but to release him into the custody of his Mother"

[freddief]

Is he released....or is this just his 3rd furlough? Glad to see the prosecution found him incompetent as well. Even if a 8 year old murders someone, they can not be accountable for their acts.

[muska]

I'd like to see a link to that. I've searched with every word I could think of.
Why would the Superior Court Judge be appointed and her subordinates be elected?

Not arguing. Just wondering. Maybe Roca was elected to another post in the past.

Hawk - I only heard the former AG say that on the tape that Boltzfan left for us last night. I don't know how to bring it over here. But it was from 1/29/09, Post #1169. I don't know if it's accurate but I hope he knows what he's talking about - but it would be kind of funny if he's wrong!

[rusure?]

The judge would not have release him if he had info in front of him that said the chipmunk gun matched the casings with CR's fingerprints on them. Right?

I would not think so. Nor would he have released him if he was Intermitent Explosive Disorder, Antisocial Disorder, or Oppositional Defient Disorder as some have suggested.

[FDInLaw]

Is he released....or is this just his 3rd furlough? Glad to see the prosecution found him incompetent as well. Even if a 8 year old murders someone, they can not be accountable for their acts.Without more details it's hard to know. . . I'm hoping for the best but waiting for more info.

[JusticeDawg©]

I can hear the Judge state that "if you dont have a confession and you don't have prints and you dont even have the right gun .. what evidence do you have for me to continue detaining this child? Nothing? Okay, then I have no other choice but to release him into the custody of his Mother"

You must have been a fly on the wall. :biggrin:

[freddief]

Didn't I tell you CADY was good and unbiased....

[JusticeDawg©]

Hawk - I only heard the former AG say that on the tape that Boltzfan left for us last night. I don't know how to bring it over here. But it was from 1/29/09, Post #1169. I don't know if it's accurate but I hope he knows what he's talking about - but it would be kind of funny if he's wrong!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWD2n0_5BY

[TaraCrazyHair]

Is he released....or is this just his 3rd furlough? Glad to see the prosecution found him incompetent as well. Even if a 8 year old murders someone, they can not be accountable for their acts.

I am guessing a conditional release

Most likely house arrest

[JusticeDawg©]

I would not think so. Nor would he have released him if he was Intermitent Explosive Disorder, Antisocial Disorder, or Oppositional Defient Disorder as some have suggested.

Yeah yeah all that stuff HotNostril has been calling him, I know.

[JusticeDawg©]

I am guessing a conditional release

Most likely house arrest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWD2n0_5BY

[JusticeDawg©]

Didn't I tell you CADY was good and unbiased....

Yes you did.
And I am glad the defense gave the states specialist Cady's findings. :thumbsup:

[Jacobtk]

He was pretty vocal in releasing information, wasn't he? Seems the State's mental expert's report slowed him down some.

I think it began when he released the gpr and fingerprint information. It made no sense for him to release a partial report that only circumstantially pointed to the boy. Like in the other releases, he expected the public to turn against the boy. Instead, the reporters asked ballistics experts who more or less stated that what the state found was meaningless.

If Carlyon was not so keen on trying this case in the court of public opinion (which is a thinly veiled attempt to poison the potential jury pool against the boy if and when the state charges him as an adult), he would not have released anything at all. The less people know, the more they will side with the state. The more people know the state's evidence is full of gaps and highly questionable, the more it works against the state.

To be honest, there is no reason why someone with very little knowledge of the legal process should understand how not to blow a case than a person who has served as a pro-tem judge before.

[muska]

Didn't I tell you CADY was good and unbiased....

You did say that! Let's just hope this turns out as well as possible for all involved. I can't imagine what it's been like for all of you who know all of the people involved. I hope it won't go on for too long.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Hmmmm .. I did not know that the reason he was questioned in the first place was because "Romans' wife raised suspicions"

I always assume he was questioned because he was there ..

What suspicions did she raise?

[muska]

Hmmmm .. I did not know that the reason he was questioned in the first place was because "Romans' wife raised suspicions"

I always assume he was questioned because he was there ..

What suspicions did she raise?

The phone call.....that she thought she heard him in the backgroud

[TaraCrazyHair]

The phone call.....that she thought she heard him in the backgroud

Could you elaborate?

Please and thank you

(:

[Hawk]

Hawk - I only heard the former AG say that on the tape that Boltzfan left for us last night. I don't know how to bring it over here. But it was from 1/29/09, Post #1169. I don't know if it's accurate but I hope he knows what he's talking about - but it would be kind of funny if he's wrong!


Well, we can see where some of the problems stem from when the former Attorney General doesn't even know election law and how his judges get to the bench!


http://www.supreme.state.az.us/orders/protem/2008/2008-14.pdf

[GentleBreeze]

Hmmmm .. I did not know that the reason he was questioned in the first place was because "Romans' wife raised suspicions"

I always assume he was questioned because he was there ..

What suspicions did she raise?

Tanya was on the phone with Tim when he was outside the Romero home minutes before he was murdered. The call started at 4:52 pm and ended around 4:55 pm

He told her that he had to go because the boy was calling him to come inside, saying something bad had happened to his dad. The neighbors heard the gunshots around 5 pm. Tanya said she recognized the boy's voice.

imoo

[muska]

Could you elaborate?

Please and thank you

(:

Mrs. Romans claims she was talking to TR when the boy called him inside the house. She said TR hung up at just a little before 5 and he was shot immediately after. That's how the boy was placed at the scene. That's how she cast suspicion on him according to that report.

[muska]

Well, we can see where some of the problems stem from when the former Attorney General doesn't even know election law and how his judges get to the bench!


http://www.supreme.state.az.us/orders/protem/2008/2008-14.pdf

So, are you saying Woods was wrong? That's too funny!! And also, I am having a hard time believing it! How can anyone be expected to know any rules if he doesn't know how judges end up in their positions?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Tanya was on the phone with Tim when he was outside the Romero home. The call started at 4:52 pm and ended around 4:55 pm

He told her that he had to go because the boy was calling him to come inside, saying something bad had happened to his dad. The neighbors heard the gunshots around 5 pm. Tanya said she recognized the boy's voice.

imoo

Hmmmmm .. not sure I know how I glazed over this before

Tim was outside, CR was inside and he yells for Tim to come inside .. and she hears this exchange on the phone ..

I suppose I could see her suspicions ... if that happened

But Tim never heard any shots yet the neighbors did once he entered the house?

[Hawk]

So, are you saying Woods was wrong? That's too funny!!

Well, he is a politician after all.

You'd think he would at least know the basics of how Arizona puts judges on the bench.

[bkwits]

I would not think so. Nor would he have released him if he was Intermitent Explosive Disorder, Antisocial Disorder, or Oppositional Defient Disorder as some have suggested.

Was it some suggested or one suggested?

[JusticeDawg©]

Hmmmmm .. not sure I know how I glazed over this before

Tim was outside, CR was inside and he yells for Tim to come inside .. and she hears this exchange on the phone ..

I suppose I could see her suspicions ... if that happened

But Tim never heard any shots yet the neighbors did once he entered the house?

It could have been any voice. She met the boy once.

Tim never entered the house. He was killed outside.

[GentleBreeze]

Hmmmmm .. not sure I know how I glazed over this before

Tim was outside, CR was inside and he yells for Tim to come inside .. and she hears this exchange on the phone ..

I suppose I could see her suspicions ... if that happened

But Tim never heard any shots yet the neighbors did once he entered the house?

They only heard 3-4 of the 6 shots fired at Tim.

She lives 170 miles away from St. John in San Carlos. She and her family came to the funeral home that was holding the bodies in St. John and that is when she told one of the officers about it.

She never accused the boy of being the murderer then. She said she just wanted them to ask him what happened because she knew he was there when something bad happened to her husband.

Today she told the media that the victims have been forgotten.

He never made it inside the house. He was shot and died on the patio porch.

imoo

[TaraCrazyHair]

It could have been any voice. She met the boy once.

Tim never entered the house. He was killed outside.

Why did she wait until the next day to tell LE this?

That is what I am reading now .. that it was the next day

That child must have really been screaming loud for her to hear him on the cell phone

Really loud!

[bkwits]

tonight i think i can actually get a good nights sleep. its been awhile since i had one been so worried about this little boy. its great news he is out and home safe with his mother. i hope it works out for the two of them. wow! looking up in arizona the boy's release and arizona going to the superbowl this week-end yahoo!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


I burned 3 white candles all afternoon as per Dawg's (I think it was Dawg) instructions. Maybe it helped.

[ChildsVOICE]

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!



YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!

BOY GOT OUT!

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!


YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!


Sincerely,
:thumbsup:childsVOICE:thumbsup:

[tif]

You know, if Vincent was crying out to Tim in pain, his voice could have sounded a couple octaves higher.

[TaraCrazyHair]

They only heard 3-4 of the 6 shots fired at Tim.

She lives 170 miles away from St. John in San Carlos. She and her family came to the funeral home that was holding the bodies in St. John and that is when she told one of the officers about it.

She never accused the boy of being the murderer then. She said she just wanted them to ask him what happened because she knew he was there when something bad happened to her husband.

Today she told the media that the victims have been forgotten.

He never made it inside the house. He was shot and died on the patio porch.

imoo

When LE called her about her husband's death ... she did not tell them to ask CR what happened because he was there?

Why wait a full day?

:confused:

[bkwits]

Why did she wait until the next day to tell LE this?

That is what I am reading now .. that it was the next day

That child must have really been screaming loud for her to hear him on the cell phone

Really loud!

IMO, she never heard the boy's voice. Tim may have told CR was calling and maybe her memory got screwed up from the shock. I don't know quite what to make of her statements, but I really feel that she did not hear the boy's voice through the phone. IMO

[FurthurBB]

You know, if Vincent was crying out to Tim in pain, his voice could have sounded a couple octaves higher.

You know, that is a really good point that has not been discussed before. Everyone always says that both my daughters sound like me, maybe the boy sounds like his father too. Tim could have even really thought it was the boy and told his wife that. IMO

[JusticeDawg©]

I burned 3 white candles all afternoon as per Dawg's (I think it was Dawg) instructions. Maybe it helped.

That was me. White is for innocence. :biggrin:

[Crispy]

When LE called her about her husband's death ... she did not tell them to ask CR what happened because he was there?

Why wait a full day?

:confused:


I thought I read that she did tell the officer that night on the phone when Tims mother called her and told her. It was in one of the officers reports.

[GentleBreeze]

When LE called her about her husband's death ... she did not tell them to ask CR what happened because he was there?

Why wait a full day?

:confused:

I don't think it was a full day. She came on from San Carlos from a 170 miles away drive and when the officer showed up she told him.

The bodies had been removed rather early after the crime and taken to the funeral home. Maybe she was in shock trying to console her two daughters who adored their dad.

imo

[TaraCrazyHair]

IMO, she never heard the boy's voice. Tim may have told CR was calling and maybe her memory got screwed up from the shock. I don't know quite what to make of her statements, but I really feel that she did not hear the boy's voice through the phone. IMO

I presume she has a rock solid alibi

But to wait a full day to tell LE that she heard him yell for help .. I am just kind of baffled

I never heard this part before

[JusticeDawg©]

When LE called her about her husband's death ... she did not tell them to ask CR what happened because he was there?

Why wait a full day?

:confused:


http://www.azfamily.com/video/localnews-index.html?nvid=301352

[Details]

When LE called her about her husband's death ... she did not tell them to ask CR what happened because he was there?

Why wait a full day?

:confused:That is one of the reasons some are very suspicious of the story. Your husband has just been killed, you know who saw it happen (at the least) - and it's not the first thing you tell them, the very instant you find out (or, at worst, an hour or so within that time). Waiting to the next day, and when she just happens to bump into someone - doesn't smell right to me.

And she'd be a top suspect, very major suspect, without that story taking hold in the police imagination. The wife of the victim with the most bullets in him, who was being cheated on, and whose husband had just proposed to another woman - she'd be right at the top of the list, based on motive.

[Hawk]

It could have been any voice. She met the boy once.

Tim never entered the house. He was killed outside.

My 20 year old granddaughter is staying with us while she attends a nearby college (criminal justice major of all things).
Anyway, last night I went upstairs and heard her talking on the phone in her room behind a closed door. I proceeded on into our 'TV room' to watch the news and there sat my granddaughter studying for a test. It was her friend, Janet, in the bedroom. Now I've known my granddaughter all her life of course, and have spent considerable time with her over the years. Yet I mistook the voice I heard to be hers. And would have testified in court to it in court had she not been in another room.

Mrs. Romans could not have recognized the voice she heard over the cell phone. In her statement, in fact, she says she asked her husband, "Who is that"?.
Mr. Romans replied (the boy's name).
If Mr. Romans sensed something was wrong he may well have lied to his wife who it was to prevent her from worry.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I thought I read that she did tell the officer that night on the phone when Tims mother called her and told her. It was in one of the officers reports.

Could be ... you know the media

Just every thing I am pulling up says it was the next day

[JusticeDawg©]

My 20 year old granddaughter is staying with us while she attends a nearby college (criminal justice major of all things).
Anyway, last night I went upstairs and heard her talking on the phone in her room behind a closed door. I proceeded on into our 'TV room' to watch the news and there sat my granddaughter studying for a test. It was her friend, Janet, in the bedroom. Now I've known my granddaughter all her life of course, and have spent considerable time with her over the years. Yet I mistook the voice I heard to be hers. And would have testified in court to it in court had she not been in another room.

Mrs. Romans could not have recognized the voice she heard over the cell phone. In her statement, in fact, she says she asked her husband, "Who is that"?.
Mr. Romans replied (the boy's name).
If Mr. Romans sensed something was wrong he may well have lied to his wife who it was to prevent her from worry.

Good for her!! :thumbsup: criminal justice major

-----------A woman might sound like an 8 yr old. I don't think it could be mistaken for a man's voice.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Good for her!! :thumbsup: criminal justice major

-----------A woman might sound like an 8 yr old. I don't think it could be mistaken for a man's voice.

that is true

very true

[Details]

My 20 year old granddaughter is staying with us while she attends a nearby college (criminal justice major of all things).
Anyway, last night I went upstairs and heard her talking on the phone in her room behind a closed door. I proceeded on into our 'TV room' to watch the news and there sat my granddaughter studying for a test. It was her friend, Janet, in the bedroom. Now I've known my granddaughter all her life of course, and have spent considerable time with her over the years. Yet I mistook the voice I heard to be hers. And would have testified in court to it in court had she not been in another room.

Mrs. Romans could not have recognized the voice she heard over the cell phone. In her statement, in fact, she says she asked her husband, "Who is that"?.
Mr. Romans replied (the boy's name).
If Mr. Romans sensed something was wrong he may well have lied to his wife who it was to prevent her from worry.Yep, you heard who you expected to hear, within the realm of probability - it's an easy mistake to make.

Mrs. Romans - I've always thought that if her story is accurate, maybe Tim was being called inside by a girlfriend of his, and wanted to get off the phone fast. Saying it was not a woman's voice, but a little boy's (a plausible thing), and that he had to go, right away, would be plausible in that scenario.

Imagine it - you get home, on the phone with your wife, when your girlfriend calls out for you to come here! - (Oh bleep) Wife: Who's that? (Oh double-bleep, she heard it!) Cheating Hubby: That's just (boy) - he says I've got to come, somethings wrong with Tim! (Great - this should get me off the phone really quickly - easy to say later that they were just playing.)

[TaraCrazyHair]

You know, kids don't understand the need to stay with the victim .. they run for help

It just seems to me that he would have ran from the house to Tim and yanked his shirt and said to come quick, dad's hurt etc ...

Laying in wait, calling for help to lure the next victim in is something that happens in movies .. like the Omen

I just can't grasp an eight year old mind sitting by his dead dad with a gun cocked ready to shoot another man with no purpose for doing so

Let alone saying the heck with it and going to the door and shooting him outside in broad daylight

The things that make us go "hmmmmm"

[GentleBreeze]

that is true

very true

Rodriguez said he had a phone conversation with her early in the morning of the 6th and she told him about the conversation with her husband.

Didn't the St John police officers travel that night to Tim's mothers home in San Carlos and they called Tanya from there?


http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/TRANSCRIPT%20OF%20DETAINED%20ADVISORY%20HEARING%20 NOV%202%202008_VOL1%20PARTB.pdf
imoo

[Details]

A kid has an easy out - kill him at night, while he sleeps. So much easier.

In a lot of ways, the time fits an aquaintance best. They know when the men get home. It's a good time. After they're home - they're in the house, you have to get in the door not knowing where they are, if they're close to a weapon or a phone - at night is the worst since many people with guns keep something by their bedside. At work - horrible place, too many people. It's the inbetween times, leaving home for work, or arriving home from work, that are easiest, that they're exposed, that they're the most vulnerable.

So someone who knew when they got home - not a very secret piece of information. Every coworker would have a fair idea, anyone who wanted to watch for a day, any friend or acquaintance or girlfriend or wife.

[Hawk]

Why did she wait until the next day to tell LE this?

That is what I am reading now .. that it was the next day

That child must have really been screaming loud for her to hear him on the cell phone

Really loud!

Mrs. Romans told Sgt. Rodriguez over the phone about hearing the boys voice, when he first told her of the murders at around 4:00am on Nov 6th. He was using Mrs. Alden's phone in San Carlos.
She didn't wait until she was at the funeral home. It was immediate.

Sorry! I was too late again.

[bkwits]

A kid has an easy out - kill him at night, while he sleeps. So much easier.

In a lot of ways, the time fits an aquaintance best. They know when the men get home. It's a good time. After they're home - they're in the house, you have to get in the door not knowing where they are, if they're close to a weapon or a phone - at night is the worst since many people with guns keep something by their bedside. At work - horrible place, too many people. It's the inbetween times, leaving home for work, or arriving home from work, that are easiest, that they're exposed, that they're the most vulnerable.

So someone who knew when they got home - not a very secret piece of information. Every coworker would have a fair idea, anyone who wanted to watch for a day, any friend or acquaintance or girlfriend or wife.

If that happened, do you think Tiff and the child would have been killed had they been there?

[TaraCrazyHair]

A kid has an easy out - kill him at night, while he sleeps. So much easier.

In a lot of ways, the time fits an aquaintance best. They know when the men get home. It's a good time. After they're home - they're in the house, you have to get in the door not knowing where they are, if they're close to a weapon or a phone - at night is the worst since many people with guns keep something by their bedside. At work - horrible place, too many people. It's the inbetween times, leaving home for work, or arriving home from work, that are easiest, that they're exposed, that they're the most vulnerable.

So someone who knew when they got home - not a very secret piece of information. Every coworker would have a fair idea, anyone who wanted to watch for a day, any friend or acquaintance or girlfriend or wife.

That has always been my point

If he planned to kill his dad .. he would done it while he was sleeping, no resistance

[Details]

If that happened, do you think Tiff and the child would have been killed had they been there?Yeah. No witnesses. I don't think there was a grudge against the father - but they wanted to be sure he was dead, no miraculous recovery and a witness to testify against them.

[GentleBreeze]

Mrs. Romans told Sgt. Rodriguez over the phone about hearing the boys voice, when he first told her of the murders at around 4:00am on Nov 6th. He was using Mrs. Alden's phone in San Carlos.
She didn't wait until she was at the funeral home. It was immediate.

Sorry! I was too late again.

Thats right, I had forgotten that until I went back and read the transcripts, she didn't wait. She told them when they first talked with her and she mentioned it again at the funeral home when an officer was there.

imo

[JusticeDawg©]

Thats right, I had forgotten that until I went back and read the transcripts, she didn't wait. She told them when they first talked with her and she mentioned it again at the funeral home when an officer was there.

imo

Mrs. Romans didn't notice that her husband didn't call her back to say everything was ok? Or Goodnight, or anything at all for the rest of the day and night?

Instead she tells police this "tidbit" at 4am when told about his death?

Almost 12 hrs later.

hmmmmmmmmm

[mrrogers]

Why did he let him out?

well theyve already shown the world how stupid they are
the phoenix tv stations have had local attys comment on the whole thing
and i recall one saying 1 because theyre stupid 2 because theyre stupid 3because therye stupid
maybe there trying to cut their loses and do something smart for a change
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases
carlyon is getting bad press televised in phoenix with an atty telling the
tv station how wrong this is to hold back one charge like he wants to do :w00t:
/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2029,%202009 .pdf

[muska]

You know, if Vincent was crying out to Tim in pain, his voice could have sounded a couple octaves higher.

This sounds very possible to me. VR could have called after being shot or when he realized there was a problem. TR, as someone suggested, may not have wanted to worry his wife and said the boy was calling. Never thought of this before.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Mrs. Romans didn't notice that her husband didn't call her back to say everything was ok? Or Goodnight, or anything at all for the rest of the day and night?

Instead she tells police this "tidbit" at 4am when told about his death?

Almost 12 hrs later.

hmmmmmmmmm

I find that quite odd

[GentleBreeze]

Mrs. Romans didn't notice that her husband didn't call her back to say everything was ok? Or Goodnight, or anything at all for the rest of the day and night?

Instead she tells police this "tidbit" at 4am when told about his death?

Almost 12 hrs later.

hmmmmmmmmm

Since they went all the way to San Carlos I would think she had just been notified when they spoke with her from his mother's home.

Did he say he would call her back? He may only call her once when he got off work everyday.

imoo

[muska]

Well, he is a politician after all.

You'd think he would at least know the basics of how Arizona puts judges on the bench.

I still cannot believe this. He was attorney general of the state. I am amazed! Good find though.....maybe you could run for attorney general!

[Hawk]

Mrs. Romans didn't notice that her husband didn't call her back to say everything was ok? Or Goodnight, or anything at all for the rest of the day and night?

Instead she tells police this "tidbit" at 4am when told about his death?

Almost 12 hrs later.

hmmmmmmmmm

Mrs. Romans was used to her husband not returning calls I imagine. He was usually out 'courting' the loose ladies around town after work and most of the night. All night sometimes.

It ain't likely she'd make a hospital search.

[TaraCrazyHair]

If I am reading this document right .. it was 19 hours later

[GentleBreeze]

Mrs. Romans was used to her husband not returning calls I imagine. He was usually out 'courting' the loose ladies around town after work and most of the night. All night sometimes.

It ain't likely she'd make a hospital search.

Right, he probably just called her once a day right after work and then shortly after he was at the bar imo.

She probably thought whatever it was it got handled.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

If I am reading this document right .. it was 19 hours later

How can it be 19 hours later. They were interviewing the boy by then and she had already told them about the conversation.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Right, he probably just called her once a day right after work and then shortly after he was at the bar imo.

She probably thought whatever it was it got handled.

imo

What does that mean?

[GentleBreeze]

What does that mean?

I think he called her everyday before he went inside to clean up and then when he cleaned up he left to go to the bar.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

If I am reading this document right .. it was 19 hours later

Tara,
Read the part about how she walked out on the police interview when asked about a divorce. :wink:

[TaraCrazyHair]

How can it be 19 hours later. They were interviewing the boy by then and she had already told them about the conversation.

imoo

Availa is asked about the phone call and the need to reinterview him .. it was 19 hours later

I am not sure I understand why the wording is the way it is but it states "after the phone call"

She said she felt he was threatened and being dishonest

I am assuming this is the phone call recollecting she heard him call for help

[mrrogers]

LE might already have some good ideas on suspects, I wish we knew.

I don't see Burglers as doing it, what would they have been after? Now drug related is another story.

Hmmmmm?????

the atty told me that the pd had stopped investigation as soon as c confessed
this was a situation with tremendous overkill on both men that would seem to indicate a strong hate for someone and 1 was possibly just collarteral damage. being at the wrong place wrong time. if vinnie hadnt wanted to pick something up at the house they wouldnt have been there to get killed. sometimes i think they were their to kill someone else that doesnt leave many names does it

read the blog http://axtonromero.blogspot.com/2008/11/tiffany-romero-in-town.html

[JusticeDawg©]

I think he called her everyday before he went inside to clean up and then when he cleaned up he left to go to the bar.

imoo

I guess he didn't get his second call in then. HE WAS DEAD.
Where do you get your info?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Tara,
Read the part about how she walked out on the police interview when asked about a divorce. :wink:

I dont have that one

Reading the one about LE getting the call about him calling Tim for help

It is the Court Doc to dismiss the confession

[muska]

I dont have that one

Reading the one about LE getting the call about him calling Tim for help

It is the Court Doc to dismiss the confession

She told police that she asked if anything was wrong. If that's true and she thought there was a problem, why not call back. And she did not mention trying to call back that I can recall.

I don't think the voice identification would hold up in court. There's too much chance of a mistake.

[Crispy]

http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/Hogle.pdf


This report said that Tim told her he would call her back in a bit.

[JusticeDawg©]

I dont have that one

Reading the one about LE getting the call about him calling Tim for help

It is the Court Doc to dismiss the confession

Most of the police reports are on the links page.

[GentleBreeze]

Availa is asked about the phone call and the need to reinterview him .. it was 19 hours later

I am not sure I understand why the wording is the way it is but it states "after the phone call"

She said she felt he was threatened and being dishonest

I am assuming this is the phone call recollecting she heard him call for help

Did you read the link I put up of Rodriquez testimony?

He is the one that talked with Tanya. He did this when he traveled 170 miles away to Tim's moms home and it wasn't 19 hours later.

They probably left the scene around 2 and got to San Carlos around 6 that morning.



imoo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.november2008stjohnsdoublehomicide.com/applications/DocumentLibraryManager/upload/Hogle.pdf


This report said that Tim told her he would call her back in a bit.

Well they have her cell phone records and I bet she tried to call him back and was use to him not answering at times.

imoo

[TaraCrazyHair]

Did you read the link I put up of Rodriquez testimony?

He is the one that talked with Tanya. He did this when he traveled 170 miles away to Tim's moms home and it wasn't 19 hours later.

They probably left the scene around 2 and got to San Carlos around 6 that morning.



imoo

You gave me the link to Detained Advisory hearing

Availa says it 19- 20 hours later

[GentleBreeze]

I guess he didn't get his second call in then. HE WAS DEAD.
Where do you get your info?


No he never got to make another call ever.

It was just my opinion that he usually went to the bar after work.

[FurthurBB]

the atty told me that the pd had stopped investigation as soon as c confessed
this was a situation with tremendous overkill on both men that would seem to indicate a strong hate for someone and 1 was possibly just collarteral damage. being at the wrong place wrong time. if vinnie hadnt wanted to pick something up at the house they wouldnt have been there to get killed. sometimes i think they were their to kill someone else that doesnt leave many names does it

read the blog http://axtonromero.blogspot.com/2008/11/tiffany-romero-in-town.html


If they were really not supposed to be there then it seems very unlikely that the boy would be there laying in wait for them. IMO

[JusticeDawg©]

No he never got to make another call ever.

It was just my opinion that he usually went to the bar after work.

It was YOUR opinion that he called her before he went to the bar.:rolleyes:

Iggy going on....

[GentleBreeze]

You gave me the link to Detained Advisory hearing

Availa says it 19- 20 hours later


http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/TRANSCRIPT%20OF%20DETAINED%20ADVISORY%20HEARING%20 NOV%202%202008_VOL2%20PARTA.pdf


Start on page 106

[TaraCrazyHair]

Ok read the other report

I am confused ... Tim was shot outside, right?

So did CR approach the truck he was sitting in while carrying the gun?

He would have to have been!

Yet Tim never mentions "holy **** -- the kids got a gun!"

And the 19 hour delay was Availa getting the report?

And then she decides we better talk to him again?

No wonder this case is so strange!

[Hawk]

No he never got to make another call ever.

It was just my opinion that he usually went to the bar after work.

It isn't just opinion. Tiffany said so too. So did the bar flies and loafers at the bar.
He didn't stay at the house and play checkers with Vinnie and the boy at night. He was a 'bird dog' on the hunt.
From all the statements we've seen that's indisputable.

[GentleBreeze]

It was YOUR opinion that he called her before he went to the bar

Iggy going on....

Well he never got to make it to the bar that day. He was killed before he could go inside.


Iggy away...........that will suit me just fine.:smile:

imo

[TaraCrazyHair]

It isn't just opinion. Tiffany said so too. So did the bar flies and loafers at the bar.
He didn't stay at the house and play checkers with Vinnie and the boy at night. He was a 'bird dog' on the hunt.
From all the statements we've seen that's indisputable.

Why was Tim sitting in the truck?

Waiting for Vinnie to go the bar with him?

Was that the usual habit?

[GentleBreeze]

It isn't just opinion. Tiffany said so too. So did the bar flies and loafers at the bar.
He didn't didn't stay at the house and play checkers with Vinnie and the boy at night. He was a 'bird dog' on the hunt.
From all the statements we've seen that's indisputable.

Thank you. Commonsense and the ability to converse is a wonderful thing. :smile:

Yep, they all said that Tim hung around the bar and no I don't expect he was playing checkers although he was probably waiting to make his next move. lol

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Why was Tim sitting in the truck?

Waiting for Vinnie to go the bar with him?

Was that the usual habit?


It was written in the media that they both were going to help a friend that afternoon. Working on a chest of drawers or building one,iirc.

imoo

[Hawk]

Thank you. Commonsense and the ability to converse is a wonderful thing. :smile:

Yep, they all said that Tim hung around the bar and no I don't expect he was playing checkers although he was probably waiting to make his next move. lol

imoo

Next move. That's pretty good!

[Crispy]

Why was Tim sitting in the truck?

Waiting for Vinnie to go the bar with him?

Was that the usual habit?

It was said they were going to go help someone with their cabinets.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Last question before bed

Did she call Tim or did Tim call her?

[GentleBreeze]

Ok read the other report

I am confused ... Tim was shot outside, right?

So did CR approach the truck he was sitting in while carrying the gun?

He would have to have been!

Yet Tim never mentions "holy **** -- the kids got a gun!"

And the 19 hour delay was Availa getting the report?

And then she decides we better talk to him again?

No wonder this case is so strange!

No he didn't approach him with the gun imo. If he had done that Tim had a gun himself in the console of his truck. Tim got out of his truck imo to come to the aide of the boy. He was shot starting at 24 feet from the home and multiple times after then as he tried to approach the home.

imoo

[rusure?]

Was it some suggested or one suggested?

One I can think of offhand, perhaps another.

[TaraCrazyHair]

N/M


Just reread he called her

I am going hmmm a lot here

But since it has been a long day and I am tired .. I will reserve it until tomorrow

But hmmmmmm

Nonetheless

[GentleBreeze]

Last question before bed

Did she call Tim or did Tim call her?



The time was 4:52 pm.

He told her Vinnie had just gone through the door.

They hung up 2.5 minutes later when he told her he had to go.

[rusure?]

Why did she wait until the next day to tell LE this?

That is what I am reading now .. that it was the next day

That child must have really been screaming loud for her to hear him on the cell phone

Really loud!

She said something to Rodrigez on the phone when he and Jones went to notify family at 3am. But changed her story at the mortuary.

[JusticeDawg©]

N/M


Just reread he called her

I am going hmmm a lot here

But since it has been a long day and I am tired .. I will reserve it until tomorrow

But hmmmmmm

Nonetheless

Night Tara.

[Hawk]

She said something to Rodrigez on the phone when he and Jones went to notify family at 3am. But changed her story at the mortuary.

She told Sgt Rodriguez that Mr. Romans told her 'somethings wrong'. She didn't write that in her witness statement however.

[JusticeDawg©]

She told Sgt Rodriguez that Mr. Romans told her 'somethings wrong'. She didn't write that in her witness statement however.

Then I'd say 'somethings wrong'. :biggrin:

[Hawk]

Then I'd say 'somethings wrong'. :biggrin:

If every scorned, and soon to be divorced, woman killed her husband, then statistically, half the men in America would be dead.

I know. So what's wrong with that!

[bkwits]

Mrs. Romans was used to her husband not returning calls I imagine. He was usually out 'courting' the loose ladies around town after work and most of the night. All night sometimes.

It ain't likely she'd make a hospital search.

Wouldn't you think someone would have called her before 4 AM though? LE or Tiffany, someone?:confused:

[rusure?]

She told Sgt Rodriguez that Mr. Romans told her 'somethings wrong'. She didn't write that in her witness statement however.

iirc, one story was she recognized the boy's voice. in another she said she asked "who's that?" and Tim told her the boy. So which is correct?

[JusticeDawg©]

If every scorned, and soon to be divorced, woman killed her husband, then statistically, half the men in America would be dead.

I know. So what's wrong with that!

I feel it is best to just walk away. :biggrin:

[rusure?]

Good night. It's been a long day, but good.

[JusticeDawg©]

Good night. It's been a long day, but good.

Very good.

Nite!

[Hawk]

iirc, one story was she recognized the boy's voice. in another she said she asked "who's that?" and Tim told her the boy. So which is correct?

Her witness statement says she heard a little boy in the background ..... and asked Tim "Who is that"?

[bkwits]

iirc, one story was she recognized the boy's voice. in another she said she asked "who's that?" and Tim told her the boy. So which is correct?

I noticed that too. I just don't believe she heard the voice coming from the house over the cell phone, while Time was in the truck. She claims she not only heard it but recognized it. Sorry, doesn't sound right to me.

[JusticeDawg©]

Her witness statement says she heard a little boy in the background ..... and asked Tim "Who is that"?

If she knew CR's voice, why did she ask?

Not a credible witness, a credible suspect maybe. :wink:

I am getting tired, can you tell?

[bkwits]

I feel it is best to just walk away. :biggrin:


Run in some cases. :sneaky:

[JusticeDawg©]

OMG!!!
I had to leave today at 2:30 (AZ time) to take my son to running club. I was at the park all day and then out running around to find super bowl stuff (that's the big talk on the new right now). I didn't hear until about 7:00 when I got in the car that he was released. I cried and my son pumped hs fist and yelled Yeah!

That'll teach me to leave this board for five hours!

Cheers!:beer: Don't do it again!

[JusticeDawg©]

Run in some cases. :sneaky:

I just spit my coffee. :ohmy: Thanks. :lol:

[Hawk]

Wouldn't you think someone would have called her before 4 AM though? LE or Tiffany, someone?:confused:

Yes. What a blunder. They did a check on the truck and had her name as owner. They could have looked at Mr. Romans phone, he probably had speed dial with her name. They should have at least redialed the last number to see who answered.
To wait that long and then not tell her face to face is disgraceful. No wonder she won't talk to them!
Then they went to San Carlos to check with the Reservation police before they notified Mr. Romans next of kin.
Unforgivable.

[Crispy]

Didn't Mrs. Romans refuse to let LE do something with his phone? What was that?

[JusticeDawg©]

Didn't Mrs. Romans refuse to let LE do something with his phone? What was that?

IIRC She wouldn't give them his phone number.

[bkwits]

I just spit my coffee. :ohmy: Thanks. :lol:

You're drinking coffee at his time of night. No wonder you are up so late.

IMO, Tim and maybe Vince called their wives when they got off work so they could run around and do what they wanted. I think that particularly true for Tim. He didn't want to get those pesky calls from home when he was "operating".

[Hawk]

IIRC She wouldn't give them his phone number.

Remember that St. Johns LE, or what do you call them? Oh yeah, goobers, aren't tech savvy. Detective Neckels had to use a hand held video camera to tape the monitor at the grocery store. They couldn't figure out how to make a direct recording.

LE had Mr. Romans phone in hand. There was nothing stopping them from using it. What if there had been a threatening voicemail implicating a suspect that needed to be addressed immediately? Not that there was but LE didn't know that.

[muska]

I'm so glad that he can sleep at home tonight in the same house as his mother. They must both be so happy. Now if they could exonerate him......that would be perfect.

Good Night!

[Hawk]

If, in fact, the release was evidence based, and not just a temporary furlough or due to the competency issue there must be someone, somewhere, mighty nervous tonight.

[Details]

Why was Tim sitting in the truck?

Waiting for Vinnie to go the bar with him?

Was that the usual habit?Tim was apparently sitting in the truck or near the truck, likely smoking a cigarette. Probably they had an agreement to not smoke inside, or to keep it to a minimum.

And, yeah, he was apparently shot near the truck, then the blood trail says he ran/walked/staggered/crawled - who knows - up to the door where he was killed. Why he ran away from the truck with a gun in it, why he ran into (according to the "boy did it" theory) gunfire, didn't hide behind the truck, run around a corner, call for help - is not explicable.

One of the reasons I think the killer came up on him from the street instead.

[Details]

If every scorned, and soon to be divorced, woman killed her husband, then statistically, half the men in America would be dead.

I know. So what's wrong with that!Not every one kills their husband - not even remotely close. But for a husband to die right after he's proposed to girlfriend, and for that to be a mere coincidence - not impossible, but sure seems unlikely that there's no connection there - maybe an outraged father acting without his daughter's knowledge, maybe a boyfriend of the mistress, any number of possibilities coming from that action.

[Hawk]

Not every one kills their husband - not even remotely close. But for a husband to die right after he's proposed to girlfriend, and for that to be a mere coincidence - not impossible, but sure seems unlikely that there's no connection there - maybe an outraged father acting without his daughter's knowledge, maybe a boyfriend of the mistress, any number of possibilities coming from that action.

No argument here. If the boy didn't do it someone else surely did and most all options are open. The people you've mentioned would certainly have a motive. For killing one of the deceased anyway. Maybe the other was just incidental.

I was just joshing with JusticeDawg.

[Details]

No argument here. If the boy didn't do it someone else surely did and most all options are open. The people you've mentioned would certainly have a motive. For killing one of the deceased anyway. Maybe the other was just incidental.

I was just joshing with JusticeDawg.Yeah, I wasn't thinking you were serious. But it really is quite the coincidence, if it is. And it could be a coincidence - enough people are murdered, that sometimes the victim of a random murder is indeed someone who just did something rotten. I was on the fence for a fair bit of time on good old Scott Peterson for a fair amount of time because of that - just because you don't want children, are having an affair, and your pregnant wife dies, doesn't mean you killed her (of course, more info came in, and I was off the fence).

But the odds are pretty good that had something to do with it. Doesn't mean his wife was the one - there are so many options related to that one act.

[Hawk]

Yeah, I wasn't thinking you were serious. But it really is quite the coincidence, if it is. And it could be a coincidence - enough people are murdered, that sometimes the victim of a random murder is indeed someone who just did something rotten. I was on the fence for a fair bit of time on good old Scott Peterson for a fair amount of time because of that - just because you don't want children, are having an affair, and your pregnant wife dies, doesn't mean you killed her (of course, more info came in, and I was off the fence).

But the odds are pretty good that had something to do with it. Doesn't mean his wife was the one - there are so many options related to that one act.


I feel bad for Mrs. Romans. She was the least involved person in this case. She may have known, or had a suspicion, of what her husband was doing in St. Johns, but it must have been devastating news to her nonetheless. Receiving it over the phone at 4:00am, eleven hours after the fact wouldn't boost her confidence in the St. Johns PD any.

[dgfred]

That is one of the reasons some are very suspicious of the story. Your husband has just been killed, you know who saw it happen (at the least) - and it's not the first thing you tell them, the very instant you find out (or, at worst, an hour or so within that time). Waiting to the next day, and when she just happens to bump into someone - doesn't smell right to me.

And she'd be a top suspect, very major suspect, without that story taking hold in the police imagination. The wife of the victim with the most bullets in him, who was being cheated on, and whose husband had just proposed to another woman - she'd be right at the top of the list, based on motive.


Wow, that really makes alot of sense. 'Taking hold in the police imagination' hmmmm.

[mrrogers]

Alright...all caught up now. I just watched the 10:00 news (primetime here) and not one word about CR being released.
It's been a good long day and I'm going to snuggle up with my 8 year old and go to sleep (hubby is out of town) content...knowing CR can do the same with his mommy tonight...

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=17704@knxv.dayport.com&navCatId=3:w00t:

[mrrogers]

No he didn't approach him with the gun imo. If he had done that Tim had a gun himself in the console of his truck. Tim got out of his truck imo to come to the aide of the boy. He was shot starting at 24 feet from the home and multiple times after then as he tried to approach the home.

imoo

ya know what if it wasnt cr calling but another kid that tanya mistook for cr. i just looked at the video of tims shooting again and i really dont think cr could have shot that good for one thing hed have to be standing that would make it less accurate. tim was shot 6 times vinnie 4 was vinnie just in the wrong place at the wrong time. if there had been shooting inside tim would have heard it because kevin jaramillo heard it across the street 3shots he thought it was a paint ball gun :w00t:

[mrrogers]

You must have been a fly on the wall. :biggrin:

i bet carlyon is grinding his teeth tonite lol :w00t::w00t:

[mrrogers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwWD2n0_5BY

well hes the one that set up joel barr by using a made up date for the alleged sexual molestiation of a lying girl :closedeyes: hes probably lying

[rusure?]

I recalled last night that some folks were thinking that Eryn had something to do with the murders and that she was a horrible mom. IMO, if the judge thought for a minute that if she had anything to do with the murders, he would not have released the boy to her yesterday. I also believe that she must have been investigated by DHR or the GAL, or both, to make sure the boy would be safe to be with her, and I'm sure they checked into why she did not have physical custody of the boy.

I am so happy he is with her. Now he can begin to heal with the help of her nurturing love.

[JusticeDawg©]

i bet carlyon is grinding his teeth tonite lol :w00t::w00t:

OMG to funny!

[JusticeDawg©]

Shooting at night IMO wouldn't have been an easy way out. If at night, he would need to kill 3 people.

Nah, Tim was always at the bar or sleeping at Candys or Mistys, ect....

[freddief]

SPECULATING as to what is next..

It looks like the Judge has the easy way out...both defense and prosec. declared boy incompetent...so competency hearing, boy declared incompent...has to go to mental health facility 245 or whatever days required (with some furloughs) and then another competency hearing...

judge doesnt have to do anything....

if Judge is ambitious and drops 1 charge boy will be tried later as an adult, I guess?

any opinions?????

[GentleBreeze]

Shooting at night IMO wouldn't have been an easy way out. If at night, he would need to kill 3 people.

Good Morning!

Seems like Big John didn't really buy all the other theories.

He said that they called Tanya and said the boy was being released for one week.

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=19202@knxv.dayport.com

[GentleBreeze]

I feel bad for Mrs. Romans. She was the least involved person in this case. She may have known, or had a suspicion, of what her husband was doing in St. Johns, but it must have been devastating news to her nonetheless. Receiving it over the phone at 4:00am, eleven hours after the fact wouldn't boost her confidence in the St. Johns PD any.

I do too.

She told the media yesterday that the victims have been forgotten in all of this. So sad but true.

imoo

[rusure?]

Shooting at night IMO wouldn't have been an easy way out. If at night, he would need to kill 3 people.

I would think it would be easier at night. Two would be right together and the other one alot closer to the first two than with one inside on the second floor landing and one out by the end of the driveway. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

ya know what if it wasn't cr calling but another kid that tanya mistook for cr. i just looked at the video of tims shooting again and i really don't think cr could have shot that good for one thing hed have to be standing that would make it less accurate. tim was shot 6 times vinnie 4 was vinnie just in the wrong place at the wrong time. if there had been shooting inside tim would have heard it because kevin jaramillo heard it across the street 3shots he thought it was a paint ball gun :w00t:

Why would Tim have heard the shots inside? No one else seem to hear the inside shots. In fact out of the six shots to Tim they only heard 3 or 4.

A .22 doesn't make a loud noise anyway and the only shots Tim could have heard were the ones being fired at him. But by then he was away from his truck. So what was he to do? Turn his back on the shooter knowing the shooter would nail him in the back or the back of the head?

I think Tim tried to come up at an angle trying to get out of the line of fire. IMO he may have thought the shots were coming from just inside the doorway but what he didn't realize until too late, imo, was the shooter had stepped out on the patio using the ivy bushes as a blind and was waiting for him as he got closer.

Tim would have never gotten out of that truck without his .45 if he had heard any shots fired.



imoo

[rusure?]

Good Morning!

Seems like Big John didn't really buy all the other theories.

He said that they called Tanya and said the boy was being released for one week.

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=19202@knxv.dayport.com

That is one week more than he did have. I understand the Romans family being upset, as Big John said, no closure. However, IMO, the lack of closure is not the boys fault. There is no proof, beyond reasonable doubt that the boy did it. There has to be good reason why the judge allowed the boy out for one week. Big John said they do not know what the evaluators came up with on the boy. So, I think he is correct, that there is no closure for the family. Don't punish the boy because there is no closure. Find the perpetrator(s). Don't make the boy a scapegoat so there can be closure. Closure comes from the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Not speculation, not theories, but truth. That's where their closure is. All of this post is just my opinion.

[rusure?]

SPECULATING as to what is next..

It looks like the Judge has the easy way out...both defense and prosec. declared boy incompetent...so competency hearing, boy declared incompent...has to go to mental health facility 245 or whatever days required (with some furloughs) and then another competency hearing...

judge doesnt have to do anything....

if Judge is ambitious and drops 1 charge boy will be tried later as an adult, I guess?

any opinions?????

If the boy is found incompetent, and is found not to be restorable to competence within 240 days, then its over for him, legally. He would not go to mental health facility unless him mom or judge needs to send him there because of the mental harm possibly that this ordeal has caused. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I don't see how it could have been easier than it was.

He had one unsuspecting man entering his home after work with no clue that impending danger lurked near by.

He had another man outside the home totally unaware what was happening inside the home.

Neither man was armed. Neither man had anytime to grab their weapons.

They were both trapped with only seconds to react before being shot again. They weren't some super human dudes. So they died just like other victims do.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

That is one week more than he did have. I understand the Romans family being upset, as Big John said, no closure. However, IMO, the lack of closure is not the boys fault. There is no proof, beyond reasonable doubt that the boy did it. There has to be good reason why the judge allowed the boy out for one week. Big John said they do not know what the evaluators came up with on the boy. So, I think he is correct, that there is no closure for the family. Don't punish the boy because there is no closure. Find the perpetrator(s). Don't make the boy a scapegoat so there can be closure. Closure comes from the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Not speculation, not theories, but truth. That's where their closure is. All of this post is just my opinion.

I don't think Big John is trying to scapegoat anyone and yes he and the Romans want the truth to come out. They think this boy did it and they have every right to believe that and express it.

imo

[Hawk]

Wow, that really makes alot of sense. 'Taking hold in the police imagination' hmmmm.

It was the first thing she told them.

[Cherishlove]

I'm not sure what I feel about Mrs. Romans, I don't like the idea that the Romans family wants him to stay in Juvie. Last time Big Johns spoke he said they were wavering on wheather the boy even did this or not, and wanted him to get help. Now Mrs. Romans is mad that he's out, not sure I like this woman at all, he's only 9 and they don't even know who did these shootings. The victims have not been forgotton to there family and friends, so why even mention the victims have been forgotton, not to there family and friends they haven't been. I didn't know them and I'm sorry they were killed but what's going on with this little boy now is horrible. I'm glad he was released I was hoping for good but if it's a week I guess that's better than nothing. Once they release him for good, I really hope his Mother gets him away from that town/state for his sake. I'm really hoping the can prove he's innocent.

[Hawk]

I'm not sure what I feel about Mrs. Romans, I don't like the idea that the Romans family wants him to stay in Juvie. Last time Big Johns spoke he said they were wavering on wheather the boy even did this or not, and wanted him to get help. Now Mrs. Romans is mad that he's out, not sure I like this woman at all, he's only 9 and they don't even know who did these shootings. The victims have not been forgotton to there family and friends, so why even mention the victims have been forgotton well not to there family and friends they haven't been. I didn't know them and I'm sorry they were killed but what's going on with this little boy now is horrible. I'm glad he was released I was hoping for good but if it's a week I guess that's better than nothing. Once they release him for good, I really hope his Mother gets him away from that town/state for his sake. I'm really hoping the can prove his innocent.

When this is over we'll all move on to another topic. Mrs. Romans will still be a widow.

[rusure?]

I don't think Big John is trying to scapegoat anyone and yes he and the Romans want the truth to come out. They think this boy did it and they have every right to believe that and express it.

imo

Did I say Big John was trying to scapegoat anyone? Did I say they did not have a right to express what they believe? Yes, they have every right to express what they believe and feel. So does everyone else. My statements concerning scapegoating is a general statement, not directed to anyone in particular, only those who do use someone to obtain closure before all the facts are known. This includes me, you, the judge, the DA the victims families, the general public, anyone who is using the boy as a scapegoat for closure without knowing all the truth. This is my opinion.

[rusure?]

why is someone at the detention center even calling Tanya? Dont you think that is wrong? Isnt that unethical behavior for a person who works for the court system to go behind the scenes and give a heads up to one of the victims family members?

I think it's sop for victims families to be notified, even if the accussed is not convicted.

[muska]

It was the first thing she told them.

I wonder if the police told Tanya that the boy had found the bodies before or after her statement. If before, I wonder if that information would have influenced her memory, either knowingly or unknowingly.

[Cherishlove]

When this is over we'll all move on to another topic. Mrs. Romans will still be a widow.Yes she will that's not my fault and it may not be the boy's fault either.

[rusure?]

I don't see how it could have been easier than it was.

He had one unsuspecting man entering his home after work with no clue that impending danger lurked near by.

The same could apply if they were asleep at night. No clue danger lurked nearby. Doubly so when awaken out of a sound sleep.


Neither man was armed. Neither man had anytime to grab their weapons.

The same could apply if they were asleep. JMO


They were both trapped with only seconds to react before being shot again. They weren't some super human dudes. So they died just like other victims do.
imoo

The same could apply if they were asleep at night. Especially if they were awaken out of a sound sleep.

[rusure?]

im sorry what does sop mean?

Standard operating proceedure

[Hawk]

Yes she will that's not my fault and it may not be the boy's fault either.


Well, we know it's not your fault anyway.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm not sure what I feel about Mrs. Romans, I don't like the idea that the Romans family wants him to stay in Juvie. Last time Big Johns spoke he said they were wavering on wheather the boy even did this or not, and wanted him to get help. Now Mrs. Romans is mad that he's out, not sure I like this woman at all, he's only 9 and they don't even know who did these shootings. The victims have not been forgotton to there family and friends, so why even mention the victims have been forgotton, not to there family and friends they haven't been. I didn't know them and I'm sorry they were killed but what's going on with this little boy now is horrible. I'm glad he was released I was hoping for good but if it's a week I guess that's better than nothing. Once they release him for good, I really hope his Mother gets him away from that town/state for his sake. I'm really hoping the can prove he's innocent.

I have nothing but compassion for the Romans family and friends. I do agree with Tanya when she expresses that the victims have been forgotten. They have,imo.

I highly doubt some would not understand if the double murderer was an adult, who had destroyed lives yet was let out and about. Then I feel everyone would understand the pain this would cause the family of the victims. The Romans didn't get to pick the age of the defendant and no matter the age, I can see how this tears them apart, knowing their loved one will never be able to have one moment here with them again yet the one accused is out and about.

He is no different than any defendant that has been charged with two homicides. Proving the defendant did it is a standard for the court. I highly doubt that other family members of other murdered victims had no anger or frustration against the defendant and just waited to express their raw emotions until after the trial.

imoo

[rusure?]

I wonder if the police told Tanya that the boy had found the bodies before or after her statement. If before, I wonder if that information would have influenced her memory, either knowingly or unknowingly.

It's possible it could have influenced her memory subconciously. Memory is a complex thing. Many things influence our memory. Even a witnesses who swear they recall the perpetrator who held them at gunpoint or knifepoint, their focus is on the weapon, not the person, and often misidentify the perpetrator. Photo lineups, lineups, etc. aren't as accurate when done in certain ways. LE knows this, DA's know this and sometimes use it to their advantage.

[Cherishlove]

Well, we know it's not your fault anyway.
I know and if she is innocent in all this I do feel bad for her because not only did her husband die but she found out he was cheating on her too and everyone knows that would be awful. But I really at this point don't think they should want harm to a small child either way get him help. I right now belive the boy is innocent, if a 8 year old killed my husband I would want him to get help and knowing his parents left guns out I would want to have the parents charged not the little child. That is just how I feel anyway.

[GentleBreeze]

The same could apply if they were asleep at night. No clue danger lurked nearby. Doubly so when awaken out of a sound sleep.



The same could apply if they were asleep. JMO



The same could apply if they were asleep at night. Especially if they were awaken out of a sound sleep.

I don't think so. He could not kill two at one time. It would give the other one in the home, who was in close proximity to the first one being shot, time to react. The sounds of the gunshot would be heard inside the home to anyone that was enclosed in that home.

It was much easier to kill one inside the home.

Then kill the other one before they got inside the home.

Both were unaware of what was happening.

imo

[Hawk]

I know and if she is innocent in all this I do feel bad for her because not only did her husband die but she found out he was cheating on her too and everyone knows that would be awful. But I really at this point don't think they should want harm to a small child either way get him help. I right now belive the boy is innocent, if a 8 year old killed my husband I would want him to get help and knowing his parents left guns out I would want to have the parents charged not the little child. That is just how I feel anyway.

I'm with you. I was just trying to look at it from Mrs. Romans perspective. If she thinks the boy, regardless of his age, killed her husband she has every right to be upset that he's free for now. I think she deserves more compassion than suspicion.

Plus there is zero evidence implicating her. Nothing. The logistics would be near impossible.

[GentleBreeze]

I know and if she is innocent in all this I do feel bad for her because not only did her husband die but she found out he was cheating on her too and everyone knows that would be awful. But I really at this point don't think they should want harm to a small child either way get him help. I right now belive the boy is innocent, if a 8 year old killed my husband I would want him to get help and knowing his parents left guns out I would want to have the parents charged not the little child. That is just how I feel anyway.

If anyone murdered my husband, whom I love dearly, I would want and expect justice.

imoo

[ChildsVOICE]

Hi All!

I had JUST logged on last night and posted my Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! message and my Internet connection went down for the night!
I'm at the library now to send a BIG

THANK YOU!

to everyone supporting this little fellow!

I'll be taking a few mins to read everyone's posts from yesterday.

I'm gleaming. Can you see?:thumbsup::biggrin::thumbsup:

[GentleBreeze]

why is someone at the detention center even calling Tanya? Don't you think that is wrong? Isn't that unethical behavior for a person who works for the court system to go behind the scenes and give a heads up to one of the victims family members?

I think that is customary. They always notify the families when the defendant has been let out.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Good Morning!

Seems like Big John didn't really buy all the other theories.

He said that they called Tanya and said the boy was being released for one week.

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=19202@knxv.dayport.com

When Christina asked Big John if she thinks they will keep him in Detention after the week out, Big John says No.

[rusure?]

Maybe he didn't want to shoot Tiffany? He obviosuly didn't blame her, he blamed his dad.

If that's the case, why would he shoot Tim, if he did it? The boy even asked the interragator, "why would I shoot Tim"?

[JusticeDawg©]

Hi All!

I had JUST logged on last night and posted my Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! message and my Internet connection went down for the night!
I'm at the library now to send a BIG

THANK YOU!

to everyone supporting this little fellow!

I'll be taking a few mins to read everyone's posts from yesterday.

I'm gleaming. Can you see?:thumbsup::biggrin::thumbsup:

I was wondering where you went last night. LOL
I got your email and then you were gone. I thought you had a heart attack. OMG Don't do the to me!

[GentleBreeze]

I agree with Big John, it's not like the kid has been charged with stealing a candy bar. Two men were brutally and coldly murdered. At this point, there remains no reason for him to believe this child isn't the killer.

imo

They have to be reeling from all of this.

Yes, like he said this isn't stealing some candy bar from a store.

Even Wood said the boy is still charged with double homicide. And there is absolutely no evidence proving that Big John is wrong in how he and the Romans believes.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm with you. I was just trying to look at it from Mrs. Romans perspective. If she thinks the boy, regardless of his age, killed her husband she has every right to be upset that he's free for now. I think she deserves more compassion than suspicion.

Plus there is zero evidence implicating her. Nothing. The logistics would be near impossible.

Big John didn't even know about the States comp results. Shows Carylon isn't telling the family anything!:cursing:

I don't think Mrs. Romans did it.

[GentleBreeze]

When Christina asked Big John if she thinks they will keep him in Detention after the week out, Big John says No.

Yeah, I think Big John and the Romans family feels hopeless that justice will ever be given for the ones who lost their lives.:sad:

Sad.

imo

[rusure?]

If anyone murdered my husband, whom I love dearly, I would want and expect justice.

imoo

What kind of justice. True justice, or vigilante justice? Would you want the truth or would you want whoever was there at the time and innocent? Would you want a 9 yo child who has a chance of rehibilitation to spend the rest of his life in jail or would you want to grant him mercy and grace so he could become a productive citizen in our society, able to contribute to society in positive ways? Would your husband want that? Would it bring him back? I know my husband would want me to show mercy and grace for a 9 yo child. He knows the difference between a child and an adult. He knows I would want him to show mercy and grace to a 9 yo child. I know the difference between a 9 yo child and an adult.

Would we grieve? Absolutely, but being vindictive would not bring them back.

I encourage everyone to discuss this type of issue with your loved ones and determine what they would want and tell them what you would want. We never know when some tradgedy such as this will happen to one of us.

[rusure?]

He would have been a witness.

Then why would he not shoot Tiffinay if he did it at night when they are asleep. I'm not following your logic here.