1/26 to 1/28

[JusticeDawg©]

I ain't smart as you, but I can read.

I thought you meant total today.

976-the 391 that is already in.

Scott Peterson's disclosure was 40 thousand pages.

976 is nothing.

[Hawk]

I thought you meant total today.

976-the 391 that is already in.

Scott Peterson's disclosure was 40 thousand pages.

976 is nothing.

From the way some folks have been talking bad about Apache County LE I wouldn't have expected more than 20 pages total.

[JusticeDawg©]

From the way some folks have been talking bad about Apache County LE I wouldn't have expected more than 20 pages total.

St John's LE. Apache County x DA.

LOL

[muska]

I thought you meant total today.

976-the 391 that is already in.

Scott Peterson's disclosure was 40 thousand pages.

976 is nothing.

Okay, are you all ignoring me now? :smile:
Can you just let me know if this is available to read now? Where is it? Thanks a lot!

[Hawk]

St John's LE. Apache County x DA.

LOL

They're all in law enforcement and on the same team.
The highest law enforcement position possible is Attorney General of the United States.

[JusticeDawg©]

Okay, are you all ignoring me now? :smile:
Can you just let me know if this is available to read now? Where is it? Thanks a lot!

Defense has it. :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

They're all in law enforcement and on the same team.
The highest law enforcement position possible is Attorney General of the United States.

hmmm I didn't know that. :w00t:

What good does it do him?

The Attorney General is subject to impeachment by the House of Representatives and trial in the Senate for "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.

[Hawk]

hmmm I didn't know that. :w00t:

What good does it do him?

The Attorney General is subject to impeachment by the House of Representatives and trial in the Senate for "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.

What is that suppose to mean? A president can be impeached.
Anyone can be fired. What's that got to do with the collective evidence in the St. Johns murder case?
Are you arguing with yourself? Or just run out of topics? OJ? Peterson?

[GentleBreeze]

It could do a lot if things. But there is 937 pages worth. Someone has been busier than they've been credited with.
That's a lot of information, even though much of it is redundant.

In the Michael Peterson case they had about 6,000 pages total.

So if we went back and added up all the supplemental discovery pages in this one, I wonder how many it would total?

And they may have some more to come.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Defense attorneys claim prosecutors want to drop the charge so it could be refiled when the boy is older and could be tried as an adult. They said they do not object to having either of the two murder counts against the boy dismissed, providing the dismissals are "with prejudice," meaning they could not be refiled.



http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1033021

[GentleBreeze]

From the way some folks have been talking bad about Apache County LE I wouldn't have expected more than 20 pages total.

I think some have underestimated this investigation.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

What is that suppose to mean? A president can be impeached.
Anyone can be fired. What's that got to do with the collective evidence in the St. Johns murder case?
Are you arguing with yourself? Or just run out of topics? OJ? Peterson?

Just sayin' nobody is above the law. :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

I think some have underestimated this investigation.

imoo

The whole 937 pages?



:lol:

[Hawk]

I think some have underestimated this investigation.

imoo

Looks like. This is a comparitivly simple case. It shouldn't take much evidence, either way, as far as the defendant is concerned.

[GentleBreeze]

Looks like. This is a comparitivly simple case. It shouldn't take much evidence, either way, as far as the defendant is concerned.

Yes, it is.

imoo

[Jacobtk]

No it wouldn't, it would be very detailed. We see how thick the files are when these kind of witnesses testifies. Their notebooks are like thick books.

The bulk of such reports are explanations justifying the findings. The same thing will be delivered by the boy's attorneys when they put on their ballistics expert. Hundreds and hundreds of paging citing other cases. That is what happens in court cases. That is one of the many reasons I decided not to go into law. It involves entirely too much reading.

And isn't it strange that they turned over a CD from myspace and in the same disclosure they turned over an interview done with Eyrn.

Unless the state plans to claim the boy blogged about his alleged plan, I am not certain what evidence they have from myspace. Perhaps they intend to claim his mother spoke about the case.

[Hawk]

The bulk of such reports are explanations justifying the findings. The same thing will be delivered by the boy's attorneys when they put on their ballistics expert. Hundreds and hundreds of paging citing other cases. That is what happens in court cases. That is one of the many reasons I decided not to go into law. It involves entirely too much reading.



Unless the state plans to claim the boy blogged about his alleged plan, I am not certain what evidence they have from myspace. Perhaps they intend to claim his mother spoke about the case.

How would Eryn talking about the case effect the proceedings? I don't know, I'm just asking.

[freddief]

The police interviewed a bunch of Romeros and neighbors so there may not be as much hard evidence as we expect, just a lot of people guessing why he did it....and then some forensics

[Jacobtk]

Looks like. This is a comparitivly simple case. It shouldn't take much evidence, either way, as far as the defendant is concerned.

It would depend on what is in the report. As I stated before, the reports have to explain and justify the conclusions reached. That takes up a lot of space. The report most likely is just the compiled interviews and police reports and statements from the witnesses. The actual lab report is substantially smaller.

How would Eryn talking about the case effect the proceedings? I don't know, I'm just asking.

If she violated the gag order the judge could hold her in contempt. That would effect her custody of the boy if he were released. I suppose the state could also argue that she was trying to influence witnessed via myspace. Again, I would like to know what anything on myspace has to do with this case in relationship to the boy.

[Hawk]

It would depend on what is in the report. As I stated before, the reports have to explain and justify the conclusions reached. That takes up a lot of space. The report most likely is just the compiled interviews and police reports and statements from the witnesses. The actual lab report is substantially smaller.



If she violated the gag order the judge could hold her in contempt. That would effect her custody of the boy if he were released. I suppose the state could also argue that she was trying to influence witnessed via myspace. Again, I would like to know what anything on myspace has to do with this case in relationship to the boy.

Could it not be said that the state tried to influence witnesses by releasing the 'interrogation tape' and all the documents?
Seems like this 'gag' order thing is a one way street.

That would sure be 'dirty pool' on Ms. Bloomfield.

[Hawk]

The police interviewed a bunch of Romeros and neighbors so there may not be as much hard evidence as we expect, just a lot of people guessing why he did it....and then some forensics

I think there's 26 pages from the Arizona DPS lab. That's what we want to see first (not that it's up to us), I think. It should tell much of the story on it's own.

[Jacobtk]

Could it not be said that the state tried to influence witnesses by releasing the 'interrogation tape' and all the documents?
Seems like this 'gag' order thing is a one way street.

Certainly. That is why the judge denied a jury trial. The jury pool at this point is so tainted that no one could be objective.

[Hawk]

Certainly. That is why the judge denied a jury trial. The jury pool at this point is so tainted that no one could be objective.

Do you think the new evidence will come up Thursday, or will they wait until after the Competency Hearing on the 6th, should the judge, God forbid, say the boy can stand trial?

[muska]

Could it not be said that the state tried to influence witnesses by releasing the 'interrogation tape' and all the documents?
Seems like this 'gag' order thing is a one way street.

That would sure be 'dirty pool' on Ms. Bloomfield.

The myspace page could probably be anything - just someone who was talking about what happened and maybe said something that prosecution considers helpful for their side.

[Jacobtk]

Do you think the new evidence will come up Thursday, or will they wait until after the Competency Hearing on the 6th, should the judge, God forbid, say the boy can stand trial?

To be honest, I am not sure. None of the evidence has been discussed previously, so it might not get mentioned. I also doubt that the charges will be dismissed at this point given that the judge has set the competency hearing. As much as I would like to believe this case would never go to trial, given what has occurred I expect the judge to either sit on ruling on the motion to dismiss or he will grant the state's request. I think he will find the boy incompetent, but restorable. What will occur after that I cannot say as I do not know enough about what either side has to be able to make an educated guess.

[Hawk]

To be honest, I am not sure. None of the evidence has been discussed previously, so it might not get mentioned. I also doubt that the charges will be dismissed at this point given that the judge has set the competency hearing. As much as I would like to believe this case would never go to trial, given what has occurred I expect the judge to either sit on ruling on the motion to dismiss or he will grant the state's request. I think he will find the boy incompetent, but restorable. What will occur after that I cannot say as I do not know enough about what either side has to be able to make an educated guess.

It's as educated as any one's at this point.
There sure a lot of options for the judge. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

[muska]

To be honest, I am not sure. None of the evidence has been discussed previously, so it might not get mentioned. I also doubt that the charges will be dismissed at this point given that the judge has set the competency hearing. As much as I would like to believe this case would never go to trial, given what has occurred I expect the judge to either sit on ruling on the motion to dismiss or he will grant the state's request. I think he will find the boy incompetent, but restorable. What will occur after that I cannot say as I do not know enough about what either side has to be able to make an educated guess.

Any guess about the likelihood that he will grant the motion to dismiss?

[Jacobtk]

Any guess about the likelihood that he will grant the motion to dismiss?

It seems more likely than not that he will refuse the motion or grant it as the state requests. While it is unethical and tantamount to double jeopardy, it would follow Roca's pattern in this case. I cannot see him dismissing both charges with prejudice nor do I see him dismissing the one charge with prejudice because that would send the state back to the Court of Appeals and halt the proceedings once again. I do see him requiring the Carlyon to explain his reasons for the motion.

[mrrogers]

Are there transcripts and times?

shed been talking to them both downtown earlier dont know how much earlier tho

[Hawk]

The myspace page could probably be anything - just someone who was talking about what happened and maybe said something that prosecution considers helpful for their side.

I don't understand the wording;

'Copy of CD containing return from myspace.com'

Does this mean subpoenaed material? Or just a copy of something LE recorded from myspace?

[JusticeDawg©]

The bulk of such reports are explanations justifying the findings. The same thing will be delivered by the boy's attorneys when they put on their ballistics expert. Hundreds and hundreds of paging citing other cases. That is what happens in court cases. That is one of the many reasons I decided not to go into law. It involves entirely too much reading.



Unless the state plans to claim the boy blogged about his alleged plan, I am not certain what evidence they have from myspace. Perhaps they intend to claim his mother spoke about the case.

I told you, my son said Law school only requires that you have a sense of humor. :tonguewag:
----------
The boy did not Blog, and there is nothing on Eryn's myspace about the case.

[JusticeDawg©]

I don't understand the wording;

'Copy of CD containing return from myspace.com'

Does this mean subpoenaed material? Or just a copy of something LE recorded from myspace?

It is Candy's my space. She told police Tim asked her to marry him. She had photos of them together up on her myspace. LE had to get it.

State has to give evidence/discovery, even if it is EXONERATING. Just because they got it, doesn't mean it is against the defense.

[Hawk]

It is Candy's my space. She told police Tim asked her to marry him. She had photos of them together up. They had to get it.

State has to give evidence/discovery, even if it is EXONERATING. Just because they got it, doesn't mean it is against the defense.

So it's minor. Okay. Good, I thought it might be worse.

So who is Jaylyn Romero. With 14 pages of transcript she's either talkative or has a lot of info.
I couldn't find a thing about her. She's the only person in AZ that I've checked on that doesn't have a traffic ticket!

[mrrogers]

Firstly with the election there is a new County Attorney...so I see no vendetta by the prosecution.

Secondly all the ballastics and speculation, and crime scene info is all interesting, but it doesn't really matter whether they can prove or disprove the case because ultimately they are NOT going to try a nine year old.

Thirdly the boy admitted both publicly and privately that he did it. He was at the scene of the crime. He had motive in that he was mad at his dad. He was somewhat of a bully at school. He has a 22 that his father gave him, and if that's what killed the men than these arguments are all moot.

All these posts are interesting but meaningless, as the boy will be released and he and his mom will move to Mississippi.you hope hes realeased is a better statement.................
if you carefully read what the prosecution writes you can get a feel for their character and intent at least i can
THRES AN 13 YO LOCKED UP TILL HES AT LEAST 18 AS THE ORDER SEZ from cochise county
FREDDIE,YOU dont understand these people. carylon is a total slimeball who would screw anyone over he can. i just pray the murder count is dismissed with predudice or not ruled on at all
how many times do we have to say COERCED CONFESSION THROWN OUT

[Hawk]

you hope hes realeased is a better statement.................
if you carefully read what the prosecution writes you can get a feel for their character and intent at least i can
THRES AN 13 YO LOCKED UP TILL HES AT LEAST 18 AS THE ORDER SEZ from cochise county
FREDDIE,YOU dont understand these people. carylon is a total slimeball who would screw anyone over he can. i just pray the murder count is dismissed with predudice or not ruled on at all
how many times do we have to say COERCED CONFESSION THROWN OUT

I can't find anywhere if Mr. Carlyon has ever prosecuted a murder case. Do you know if he has?
And I don't think Judge Roca has ever presided over one. Shouldn't one of them have some experience in homicides?

I wouldn't want surgery from an intern if the overseeing surgeon had never done the operation before.
Just wondering.

[JusticeDawg©]

I can't find anywhere if Mr. Carlyon has ever prosecuted a murder case. Do you know if he has?
And I don't think Judge Roca has ever presided over one. Shouldn't one of them have some experience in homicides?

I wouldn't want surgery from an intern if the overseeing surgeon had never done the operation before.
Just wondering.

I looked long ago and couldn't find any. I figured it was because they weren't high profile, but you would think we could find one other!

[mrrogers]

Honestly if they would of even talked to any other suspects I would maybe wonder if he did it. Yet they never questioned anyone thouroughly...why is that? IMO as I have said before I think the DA seen this as an opportunity to get his 15 min of fame, he just didn't realize the backlash after releasing the video of the "confession" so now he has to save face and attempt to actually prove this kids did this instead of people just believing he did based on the confession. So far he is failing and making himself look worse by wanting a judgement on his motion to dismiss before the competency is finished...to me that shows he doesn't want justice he wants another notch in his belt. If this kid is incompetent age wise then it has to be dismissed with prejudice, he is trying to get around the law.

this kid wont get a fair trial anywhere due to candeleria lettn hat tape out

[JusticeDawg©]

So it's minor. Okay. Good, I thought it might be worse.

So who is Jaylyn Romero. With 14 pages of transcript she's either talkative or has a lot of info.
I couldn't find a thing about her. She's the only person in AZ that I've checked on that doesn't have a traffic ticket!

Most likely a minor. LOL

[JusticeDawg©]

this kid wont get a fair trial anywhere due to candeleria lettn hat tape out

That tape is a joke!

[Hawk]

I looked long ago and couldn't find any. I figured it was because they weren't high profile, but you would think we could find one other!

I know. I can find out most anything on the web pertaining to my home county. Apache County is kinda' secretive, or probably just doesn't have the resources to maintain many server files.

[mrrogers]

I don't know. I haven't looked for it.

imoo

o i found out about that
tiffany was faxing a friend to say she wished she could till vinny she was sorry about the fight they had the nite before
sounds fishy to me and alot of other people

[JusticeDawg©]

I know. I can find out most anything on the web pertaining to my home county. Apache County is kinda' secretive, or probably just doesn't have the resources to maintain many server files.
Want to giggle?

Our Countys most famous: Both of the Kehoe brothers are members of Aryan Nations.

Watch the shootout!!!!

http://www.footypd.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2d6d4f975380ee45ef8d&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr


They were convicted. Later...Conviction overturned because prosecutors stored evidence in the jury room and ladies bathroom.

Yep, this is Mayberry too. :w00t:

[mrrogers]

IMO it was found exactly where it would be expected to be found if he were the shooter...not walking through some cloud of smoke. It wasn't found on his butt from sitting either.

60 particles of gsr is far too little to have from 10 shot. avila was right in a sense it can come from what she said. a gun. like someone else said being a hunting family the house was probably full of it. it will be on freshly washed clothes also so theres a bunch of places to get it from
you remind me of that hamilton burger on perry mason always has answer for everything but in the end thats not what happened

[mrrogers]

The point is, the GSR didn't rule the boy out.

It's another piece of circumstantial evidence that points to the boy as the shooter.

imo

if 5 people are in room one is shooting they all will have some gsr on them
does that make all five the shooter. according to your logic it does

[muska]

I don't understand the wording;

'Copy of CD containing return from myspace.com'

Does this mean subpoenaed material? Or just a copy of something LE recorded from myspace?

I don't know what this could be........maybe a transcript from someone's page? What goes on a CD? I don't know anything about myspace but maybe there's a term 'return' associated with it? Just guessing.

I googled 'return myspace' and all I got was a bunch of info about a band. Oh well!

[JusticeDawg©]

I don't know what this could be........maybe a transcript from someone's page? What goes on a CD? I don't know anything about myspace but maybe there's a term 'return' associated with it? Just guessing.

I googled 'return myspace' and all I got was a bunch of info about a band. Oh well!

myspace.com received a supeopa, (like Verizon did for cell records). They must comply. The supeopa was for a copy of a person/s website that is hosted on their servers. MySpace.com then burns a copy to a blank CD of that person/s website and returns it to LE.

[GentleBreeze]

if 5 people are in room one is shooting they all will have some gsr on them
does that make all five the shooter. according to your logic it does

There is nothing stating that 5 people were alive and standing in this home when the murders occurred.



imo

[mrrogers]

:confused: I would think after the first devastating incapacitating shot the rest would be much easier.

The boy being the shooter isn't far fetched at all.

What is far fetched, claiming a real killer disguised his abilities to frame a boy.
imo
whatever your reply totally ignores only 60 particles of gsr
that could have been picked up anywhere.ive explained that and coerced confession so many times im not going into it any more
a boy 8 years old is gonna have a helluva time making the headshots they talked about. if they were from him they would have been at upward angle theres been not mention of that
what i find far fetched is your total attitude. you should go to work for prosecution i think theyd welcome someone like you.
like i said im privy to alot of informaton that none of you know about and im not goihng to tell so all i can tell you is you are wrong thinking hes the shooter.. so go ramble on i dont care :w00t::w00t:

[muska]

myspace.com received a supeopa, (like Verizon did for cell records). They must comply. The supeopa was for a copy of a person/s website that is hosted on their servers. MySpace.com then burns a copy to a blank CD of that person/s website and returns it to LE.

Does myspace let the person know they've done this?

[JusticeDawg©]

Does myspace let the person know they've done this?

nope, never.

[muska]

nope, never.

So you would only find out if the police came looking for you?

[JusticeDawg©]

whatever your reply totally ignores only 60 particles of gsr
that could have been picked up anywhere.ive explained that and coerced confession so many times im not going into it any more
a boy 8 years old is gonna have a helluva time making the headshots they talked about. if they were from him they would have been at upward angle theres been not mention of that
what i find far fetched is your total attitude. you should go to work for prosecution i think theyd welcome someone like you.
like i said im privy to alot of informaton that none of you know about and im not goihng to tell so all i can tell you is you are wrong thinking hes the shooter.. so go ramble on i dont care :w00t::w00t:

IIRC- There were only 32 GSR particles found on his cloths.

[JusticeDawg©]

So you would only find out if the police came looking for you?

For questioning about your myspace, yes.

[freddief]

IIRC- There were only 32 GSR particles found on his cloths.


the house has stairs...is that what you mean by the upward angle???

[Perplexed1]

There is nothing stating that 5 people were alive and standing in this home when the murders occurred.



imo

I'm sorry, but are you for real?:glare:

[JusticeDawg©]

the house has stairs...is that what you mean by the upward angle???

Say what? :confused:

[Pag Boi]

Small town right?

No way somebody say ... hey isnt that your address?


Or close to it?

We hear that here all the time

I live in a small town where everyone knows when you go to bed and wake up

Nosey yes, but in time of crime ... i am glad they are there

Hey Tara - you're asking all kinds of great questions. ;)

Did you notice that the several of the victims coworkers were in/at Wilburs and heard the dispatches to VR's address. Seems to me that Tif was the only one that needed a telephone call to be alerted. The wife's EMS alibi answered the call and Tif was in Napa 2 "verified" minutes before she got the call to come home. :shrug:

[freddief]

mr rogers comment....

Originally Posted by mrrogers
whatever your reply totally ignores only 60 particles of gsr
that could have been picked up anywhere.ive explained that and coerced confession so many times im not going into it any more
a boy 8 years old is gonna have a helluva time making the headshots they talked about. if they were from him they would have been at upward angle theres been not mention of that
what i find far fetched is your total attitude. you should go to work for prosecution i think theyd welcome someone like you.
like i said im privy to alot of informaton that none of you know about and im not goihng to tell so all i can tell you is you are wrong thinking hes the shooter.. so go ramble on i dont care

[Hawk]

Want to giggle?

Our Countys most famous: Both of the Kehoe brothers are members of Aryan Nations.

Watch the shootout!!!!

http://www.footypd.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2d6d4f975380ee45ef8d&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr


They were convicted. Later...Conviction overturned because prosecutors stored evidence in the jury room and ladies bathroom.

Yep, this is Mayberry too. :w00t:

Wow! There's a classic case of 'one's scared and the other one's glad of it'!

That must be one of the most talkative and patient cops in the country.

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm sorry, but are you for real?:glare:

That was funny.

Could have been 15 for all we know, right? :lol:

[JusticeDawg©]

Wow! There's a classic case of 'one's scared and the other one's glad of it'!

That must be one of the most talkative and patient cops in the country.
Unreal huh?? It should be on TV!!!
The cop had no clue these guys were wanted in 2 other states for murder.

[Perplexed1]

That was funny.

Could have been 15 for all we know, right? :lol:

My goodness!

[muska]

the house has stairs...is that what you mean by the upward angle???

I don't think there's any real agreement on any of the shots or angles inside the house.

[Pag Boi]

Are there transcripts and times?

Tif talked to VR at 4:27.
Tif produces 2nd receipt with time stamp 4:43

The call from the child was @ 5:15. So it wasn't that "she had just talked to her hubby and he was headed home" JMOO tho

ETA: if an 8yo can kill in mere minutes so could any adult.

[Hawk]

Unreal huh?? It should be on TV!!!
The cop had no clue these guys were wanted in 2 other states for murder.

No I.D., no tag, two young guys, seems the cop was just too nice. Around here (and most other places I imagine) they'd taser your a.. if you didn't submit to a search and get in the cruiser. The passenger would have been at the rear of the suspects vehicle sitting on the ground.
Oh, well. At least no one was hurt (miraculously).

[Perplexed1]

Tif talked to VR at 4:27.
Tif produces 2nd receipt with time stamp 4:43

The call from the child was @ 5:15. So it wasn't that "she had just talked to her hubby and he was headed home" JMOO tho

ETA: if an 8yo can kill in mere minutes so could any adult.

8 yr olds are getting smarter all the time, ya know. :rolleyes:

[JusticeDawg©]

Tif talked to VR at 4:27.
Tif produces 2nd receipt with time stamp 4:43

The call from the child was @ 5:15. So it wasn't that "she had just talked to her hubby and he was headed home" JMOO tho

ETA: if an 8yo can kill in mere minutes so could any adult.

Bolded by me.

"Tif" told LE, VR called her and said he was headed home.

[GentleBreeze]

That was funny.

Could have been 15 for all we know, right? :lol:

Really? Its been almost three months, where are they? Surely some of the neighbors would have seen 15 people filing out of that house. Oh wait a minute. They didn't see anyone.

If you can just come up with one though that will be fine.:smile:

Well another one, than the one that has been accused of being there when they did the crimes. The court already has him included.

[Perplexed1]

Surely it's not allowed to 'drink and post'? :tonguewag:

[muska]

Surely it's not allowed to 'drink and post'? :tonguewag:

I didn't know that was a rule.......I'm having a beer right now! :ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

Surely it's not allowed to 'drink and post'? :tonguewag:

I dont know. Are you drinking?

I dont drink alochol but if you want to drink, I see nothing wrong with that. Enjoy!

imo

[bkwits]

Surely it's not allowed to 'drink and post'? :tonguewag:



Why not? You expect me to read some of these posts cold sober?:rolleyes:

[Perplexed1]

Why not? You expect me to read some of these posts cold sober?:rolleyes:

:lol::lol: You've got a point there.

[Perplexed1]

I didn't know that was a rule.......I'm having a beer right now! :ohmy:

Somehow I think you can handle it. :wink:

[JusticeDawg©]

I didn't know that was a rule.......I'm having a beer right now! :ohmy:

You are under Forum Arrest!

:beer:

[JusticeDawg©]

Why not? You expect me to read some of these posts cold sober?:rolleyes:

I just lost it again!! Thanks!!

[JusticeDawg©]

OK, who is RYON SCARBROUGH?
(VR's Bro-in-law???)
TIA.

[Pag Boi]

I hope his Mother takes him far away from St. Johns, AZ and I would hope and assume she would get him Intense Therapy and all the Love and Support he will need.

ITA.

I'd be more suspicious of the child IF the collective judgment of the St. John's folks sided with the child's innocence. I hope this child's story can find a happy ending. But I believe it will have to begin anew outside that community to succeed. All JMOO

[muska]

OK, who is RYON SCARBROUGH?
(VR's Bro-in-law???)
TIA.

Looks like he is the brother-in-law -
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20193700&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505963&rfi=6

[JusticeDawg©]

Looks like he is the brother-in-law -
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20193700&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505963&rfi=6

Thank you!! Nice Family. OMG!!!!! NOT!

http://test.azcorrections.gov/isearch/inmate_datasearch/results.aspx?InmateNumber=177595&LastName=&FNMI=&SearchType=SearchInet

[Pag Boi]

o i found out about that
tiffany was faxing a friend to say she wished she could till vinny she was sorry about the fight they had the nite before
sounds fishy to me and alot of other people


This alleged Vinny fight the night before, do you think it took place b/f or after the alleged Vinny instructions to Tif to give the child 5 swats?

I am wondering what you would tell your friend in a fax that you couldn't say with donuts and milk? :)

Most of the details released sound fishy to me. Even the confession sounded fishy. And illegal. And now inadmissable.

[Hawk]

Upward angle? How do you know that either man was standing at the time of the headshots? :confused:

I believe the only head shot while standing was the one above the ear to Mr. Romero. But he was climbing the stairs so the angle was either pretty level or slightly downward. The height of the shooter would be hard to tell on that particular wound.

[muska]

Thank you!! Nice Family. OMG!!!!! NOT!

http://test.azcorrections.gov/isearch/inmate_datasearch/results.aspx?InmateNumber=177595&LastName=&FNMI=&SearchType=SearchInet

I don't know what to say so.............I'll just not say anything! :smile:
(except, I don't know how you find this stuff!)

[JusticeDawg©]

I don't know what to say so.............I'll just not say anything! :smile:
(except, I don't know how you find this stuff!)

I get by with a little help from my friends. :biggrin:

[Hawk]

From Mrs. Romero's place of business, White Mountain Physical Therapy to Wilbur's store is 1.1 miles.
They are on the same street (Cleveland Street).
From Wilbur's to NAPA is 128'. It's on the same street as well. Might be in the same parking lot. Don't know.
From NAPA to the residence is .7 miles, one right turn and 1 left turn.

Why didn't she go home and pick the boy up while loafing around?

She checked out the second time at Wilbur's at 4:45 (according to Detective Neckel).
She spoke with Jean and Jason Kirk of St. John's Emergency Services in the parking lot, then traveled the 128' to NAPA.
The 911 call, at 5:03 or so, had to have come after she'd left the Kirks, unless they had an 18 minute howdy-do.
She was at NAPA for a couple of minutes (?) when she got the call from the boy at 5:12.
What am I missing?

[JusticeDawg©]

From Mrs. Romero's place of business, White Mountain Physical Therapy to Wibur's store is 1.1 miles.
They are on the same street.
From Wilbur's to NAPA is 128'. It's on the same street, Cleveland, as well.
From NAPA to the residence is .7 miles, one right turn and 1 left turn.

Why didn't she go home and pick the boy up while loafing around?

She checked out the second time at Wilbur's at 4:45 (according to Detective Neckel).
She spoke with Jean and Jason Kirk of St. John's Emergency Services in the parking lot, then traveled the 128' to NAPA.
The 911 call, at 5:03 or so, had to have come after she'd left the Kirks, unless they had an 18 minute howdy-do.
She was at NAPA for a couple of minutes (?) when she got the call from the boy at 5:12.
What am I missing?

How to set up an alibi 101. :tonguewag:

[muska]

From Mrs. Romero's place of business, White Mountain Physical Therapy to Wibur's store is 1.1 miles.
They are on the same street.
From Wilbur's to NAPA is 128'. It's on the same street, Cleveland, as well.
From NAPA to the residence is .7 miles, one right turn and 1 left turn.

Why didn't she go home and pick the boy up while loafing around?

She checked out the second time at Wilbur's at 4:45 (according to Detective Neckel).
She spoke with Jean and Jason Kirk of St. John's Emergency Services in the parking lot, then traveled the 128' to NAPA.
The 911 call, at 5:03 or so, had to have come after she'd left the Kirks, unless they had an 18 minute howdy-do.
She was at NAPA for a couple of minutes (?) when she got the call from the boy at 5:12.
What am I missing?

He called at 5:12, didn't get her and then called back and got her at 5:14.

[Pag Boi]

I thought that weird too. Many of VR and TR buddies were at Wilbur's and recognized the address and saw sirens going that directions...but not Tiffany.


Even weirder to me is that Tif knew that VR needed another set of coveralls. It's so ironic that she was buying an outfit exactly like the one he was shot to death in. What a coinkydinky! Guess she was thoughtful that way unless it involved tending to her stepson. Or answering his 1st call. Taking his call 2 minutes later and being in NAPA 2 minutes must just be another coincidence.

[mrrogers]

[QUOTE=HotNostril;12711698]Upward angle? How do you know that either man was standing at the time of the headshots? :confused

UPWARD TRAJECTORY
well i could go into a long thing here about the headshots but youll just argue with it anyway so im savin my energy by saying "how do you know they werent
the only way to win IS NOT TO PLAY

[Pag Boi]

Here's an article on Mr. Carlyon from 2006;

"Everything had to be perfect........"

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2264&dept_id=506172&newsid=17321673&PAG=461&rfi=9

Catching up......from the link

After receiving a job offer from Navajo County, Carlyon packed up his family and moved to the White Mountains.

I got quite a bit of trial experience in the justice courts doing DUIs and had just started doing a little bit on the felonies when I was asked to do civil. I was bored on the misdemeanor stuff so I kept volunteering to do other things." Carlyon was soon doing cases involving planning and zoning issues and cases concerning the engineering department.


Excuse my ignorance but what type of prosecutor does civl work in the line of duty?

Do DA offices typically do work for the county/city with planning and zoning?

My experience has been that attys work for DA's office first to get experience and then move on to private practice. I love how Brad didn't do pro bono work when it was for his own firm (if ever):rolleyes:

[mrrogers]

I believe the only head shot while standing was the one above the ear to Mr. Romero. But he was climbing the stairs so the angle was either pretty level or slightly downward. The height of the shooter would be hard to tell on that particular wound.

who knows maybe youve read something i havent
so your telling me if someone shorter than you is standing lower than you the trajectory is gonna be downward ?
you believe ? where was that ive never read that

[mrrogers]

I don't know what to say so.............I'll just not say anything! :smile:
(except, I don't know how you find this stuff!)
aggravated dui and dangerous drugs could be alot worse

[mrrogers]

Even the outside expert not connected to the case, says:

Police records say the boy's pants and shirt were retrieved from a relative's home the day after the slayings. Howard said he would expect to find dozens of particles under those circumstances, "even if he took the clothes and hung them in a closet."

They did find dozens of particles on his clothing.

He also stated : Howard contends that gunshot residue is virtually useless in proving guilt, but the lack of particles may exonerate defendants."

But that is not the case here at all. Gunshot residue was present.

imoo

hooting then go home and count the number ill betcha its "thousands like howard said> gsr will survive a washing mach it can be transferred from a gun,it could have even come from neckles or avila, or sitting in a patrol car 36 is pretty much miniscule

[Pag Boi]

EXACTLY. I don't think anyone was interviewed in such an intimidating way. In EVERY other situation LE went to them. Work, home, park, parking lot, etc...but not this boy. Recorded with three uniformed and armed police officers.

In some cases, LE was being interviewed JMOO (see Tanya, Mark Mercer)

[mrrogers]

I believe the only head shot while standing was the one above the ear to Mr. Romero. But he was climbing the stairs so the angle was either pretty level or slightly downward. The height of the shooter would be hard to tell on that particular wound.
TO hawk and hot nostril
so that there is some closure to this on my part,
im also gonna tell ya the the same subject on websleuths is at about the same place as this one is
im still wondering how someone can be at the bottom of stairs shooting up since he fell on his chest and was going up the stairs and the bullet would make a LEVEL OR SLIGHT DOWNWARD trajectory?
so you all figure it out. ive got information im relying on and dont have to guess
im gonna tellya the results of the examination of the case that i was told is that the kid is innocent i accept that we ll all find out at some point in the future so i aint holdin my breath.
ive read somewhere about the height difference and they said the same thing i did .. so if you find the level or downward part you say it is post if for me so i can read it
you say you believe but are you certain where does it say that ?

[Pag Boi]

Do we really know what he did, for arguments sake say he did come in and see his dad on the steps. So how would a person lean down to look or maybe even try to move a loved one in that situation...leaning on knees on the step (gsr on pants) trying to turn over loved one, or even touching loved ones clothes (gsr on shirt). Yeah all speculation but because no one asked this kid pertinent questions all we can do at the moment is speculate.

It's a fact that the clothing was bagged improperly and gsr could have transfered. Who knows where or when the gsr got on the clothing. We can speculate as will the experts JMOO

[mrrogers]

There is no "missing" hundreds of thousands of particles.

IMO the GSR PATTERN indicates he was the shooter.

34 particles is what was found not thousands. so that tells you hes the guy huh. wow i just read backk a ways it would be in the THOUSANDS NOT 34 BUT WHO KNOWS maybe your on the edge of a new scientific breakthrough that completley disproves every rule and finding found since 1940
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/01/06/20090106stjohns.html
rn by a child accused of murder in St. Johns tested positive for gunshot residue and his fingerprints were found on a box of ammunition, according to lab reports disclosed Monday.

But independent experts question the significance of both pieces of evidence.

The boy's clothing was not collected until the day after his father and a friend were shot and killed, and his skin was never tested for traces of gunshot residue. The boy, who turned 9 last month, frequently hunted with his father and could have held the box of .22-caliber cartridges or come into contact with residue at any time.

A report from the Bexar County Criminal Investigation Lab in Texas says more than three-dozen particles of lead, antimony and barium were found on a long-sleeved shirt and denim pants the boy wore the day his father and a friend were killed. Michael Martinez, a forensic scientist who analyzed the garments, concluded that the clothing may have come in contact with, or been close to, a discharged firearm.

However, the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies have stopped using gunshot-residue tests because cross-contamination and other problems can lead to dubious conclusions.

The St. Johns boy is not being identified by The Arizona Republic because of his age.

Police accuse him of killing his 29-year-old father and 39-year-old Tim Romans with a .22 rifle on Nov. 5.

In a videotaped interview, the child first denied responsibility for the killings, then told police that he shot the men to end their suffering after they had been wounded by someone else.

Police reports said the boy later told a social worker that he had kept a tally of his spankings and vowed that 1,000 "would be his limit."

Steven Howard, a Michigan attorney and expert on shooting reconstruction, said tens of thousands of microscopic particles are expelled when a firearm is discharged. Upon learning that the St. Johns boy's clothes were collected a day after the crime - and that his skin was not tested at all - Howard criticized investigators. "Number 1, they're stupid," he said. "Number 2, they're stupid. Number 3, they're stupid. . . . This is just a case of poor police work."

St. Johns police, who viewed the boy as a victim at first, are under a gag order and could not be reached for comment. Prosecutors and defense attorneys also are prohibited from commenting on the case.

Residue controversial

Howard said gunshot residue has become controversial in the forensics world because innocent defendants can be tainted without firing a weapon, especially if they sat in a patrol car, touched a gun or were near the weapon when it was fired. The St. Johns boy was from a hunting family and had been in the room where his father died.

Police records say the boy's pants and shirt were retrieved from a relative's home the day after the slayings. Howard said he would expect to find dozens of particles under those circumstances, "even if he took the clothes and hung them in a closet."

John Cayton, a firearms examiner and former chief criminalist with the Kansas City, Mo., Police Department, said residue testing remains an important tool and described the number of particles found on the boy's clothes as "significant." But he also questioned whether the garments were contaminated elsewhere. Cayton added that it is not uncommon for small-town investigators to overlook evidentiary protocols because they often lack training and experience with homicides.

Boston police scrapped gunshot-residue tests in 2005 and the FBI followed suit a year later after acknowledging widespread contamination in its own lab, according to the Sun of Baltimore. Numerous other agencies have re-evaluated their validity.

Howard contends that gunshot residue is virtually useless in proving guilt, but the lack of particles may exonerate defendants.

Proceedings against the boy have been suspended until his competency to stand trial is determined. Because he may be found incapable of understanding the legal system, Apache County prosecutors have sought to dismiss one homicide count, allowing them to charge him with that crime years from now, when he has matured.

Judge Pro Tem Michael Roca refused to allow the dismissal, prompting prosecutors to file an appeal with the state Court of Appeals. That issue is pending.

Third motion filed

Meanwhile, attorneys for the boy filed a third motion, seeking to hire a counselor who can help the defendant cope with emotional issues.

The defense wants those sessions to be confidential so that the child can receive treatment without his statements being used in court. Roca has refused, instead authorizing treatment by an Apache County probation counselor who could report findings to the court.

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slideshow St. Johns Football - Playing through pain
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• Gunshot residue found on boy's clothing
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blog Roberts: Boy's constitutional rights forgotten
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• Friends dispute abuse suspicions in St. Johns slaying
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[muska]

I see everyone stopped talking last night around one o'clock. Did all of you lose your connection too? A message came up on my screen that said the link to the site was broken (or something like that). I've never had that happen before!

[freddief]

this case is bizarre.....
things I don't understand. The kid gets off the bus at 3pm. The bus is a block away from home. When I was a kid and got off school, I;ld go home, do my homework, and then watch tv. What kid goes for a two hour walk? It's possible but highly unlikely.

Probably most neighbors get off work at 5pm so they probably would be at their homes til about 5:10 so there probably wouldnt be many people around.

I'm puzzled on the Eryn angle. Why did she give him up to Vince? How come she only saw the boy only a few time since she gave up or lost him? Why was she always moving? Did she do drugs? Why wasnt she paying money to the kid, like child support? Did she provoke the boy into doing it, as this happened right after she came to St. Johns?

I'm betting Eryn's visit pushed the boy over the edge.

[muska]

Hi all --

I've been lurking a while and following this discussion. Does anyone know if Candy's myspace page is still up or know the url for it?

Thanks a lot!:smile:

I can't help you with that information.......I don't know if it's still out there or not, but welcome to the discussion!!!

[muska]

this case is bizarre.....
things I don't understand. The kid gets off the bus at 3pm. The bus is a block away from home. When I was a kid and got off school, I;ld go home, do my homework, and then watch tv. What kid goes for a two hour walk? It's possible but highly unlikely.

Probably most neighbors get off work at 5pm so they probably would be at their homes til about 5:10 so there probably wouldnt be many people around.

I'm puzzled on the Eryn angle. Why did she give him up to Vince? How come she only saw the boy only a few time since she gave up or lost him? Why was she always moving? Did she do drugs? Why wasnt she paying money to the kid, like child support? Did she provoke the boy into doing it, as this happened right after she came to St. Johns?

I'm betting Eryn's visit pushed the boy over the edge.

Since there weren't many people around, anyone could have been in and out of that house in the short time available. I find it strange that people don't want to look at all possibilities.

Maybe he didn't like being at home alone. I know my kids didn't at that age.

[muska]

TO hawk and hot nostril
so that there is some closure to this on my part,
im also gonna tell ya the the same subject on websleuths is at about the same place as this one is
im still wondering how someone can be at the bottom of stairs shooting up since he fell on his chest and was going up the stairs and the bullet would make a LEVEL OR SLIGHT DOWNWARD trajectory?
so you all figure it out. ive got information im relying on and dont have to guess
im gonna tellya the results of the examination of the case that i was told is that the kid is innocent i accept that we ll all find out at some point in the future so i aint holdin my breath.
ive read somewhere about the height difference and they said the same thing i did .. so if you find the level or downward part you say it is post if for me so i can read it
you say you believe but are you certain where does it say that ?

I think some of us believe the shots inside the house came first from upstairs, but others think the first shots were from the bottom of the steps.

The chest shots to Tim Romans took a downward trajectory, according to the autopsy report, so that seems to imply that someone taller than TR would have made those shots. That would, of course, not be the boy. Those chest shots were also very close together suggesting that an automatic weapon might have been used.

Of course, there is much disagreement about all of this! :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

this case is bizarre.....
things I don't understand. The kid gets off the bus at 3pm. The bus is a block away from home. When I was a kid and got off school, I;ld go home, do my homework, and then watch tv. What kid goes for a two hour walk? It's possible but highly unlikely.

Probably most neighbors get off work at 5pm so they probably would be at their homes til about 5:10 so there probably wouldn't be many people around.

I'm puzzled on the Eryn angle. Why did she give him up to Vince? How come she only saw the boy only a few time since she gave up or lost him? Why was she always moving? Did she do drugs? Why wasn't she paying money to the kid, like child support? Did she provoke the boy into doing it, as this happened right after she came to St. Johns?

I'm betting Eryn's visit pushed the boy over the edge.

That part of his story just makes no sense to me. I could understand it if he had some of his friends walking with him and they were walking around the block, stopping to talk to other kids in the neighborhood or even playing ball in one of their yards but the walk around the block 10 times seems so far fetched. And meantime Nellie is still in her cage back at the house all that time.
Before this happened it has been stated that the boy was seen walking his puppy in the neighborhood, yet that day, knowing she had been cooped up all day, he lets her stay almost two more hours?:confused:

While most of the neighbors there probably worked I doubt that they were all away from their home during this time. He says he sees Cage but he thinks that Cage did not see him. You mean he continues to go around and around and around the block and Cage never notices him? If he waved to Cage then why not get Cage's attention, especially if he was just killing time?

imo

[rusure?]

I think some of us believe the shots inside the house came first from upstairs, but others think the first shots were from the bottom of the steps.

The chest shots to Tim Romans took a downward trajectory, according to the autopsy report, so that seems to imply that someone taller than TR would have made those shots. That would, of course, not be the boy. Those chest shots were also very close together suggesting that an automatic weapon might have been used.

Of course, there is much disagreement about all of this! :confused:

I have been in the shadows for awhile now. I have often wondered how an eight year old child could shoot two shots to the chest so close together with a rifle he could only shoot one shot at a time. It does not compute. It must have been an automatic weapon that made those shots. How else can it be explained?

[rusure?]

Why has it taken so long for the DA's office to disclose what is on the last suplement?

[muska]

I have been in the shadows for awhile now. I have often wondered how an eight year old child could shoot two shots to the chest so close together with a rifle he could only shoot one shot at a time. It does not compute. It must have been an automatic weapon that made those shots. How else can it be explained?

There are a lot of unanswered questions. Hopefully, they will not be ignored. Most of us would like to know where the Mossberg plinkster was that day and if it might have been the weapon or one of the weapons used. That gun is not recorded in evidence but there are pictures of its empty box in police photographs. So where is that weapon? Was it in the house that day? It's an automatic and holds 10 shots, just the number used that day.

[JusticeDawg©]

I have been in the shadows for awhile now. I have often wondered how an eight year old child could shoot two shots to the chest so close together with a rifle he could only shoot one shot at a time. It does not compute. It must have been an automatic weapon that made those shots. How else can it be explained?

BINGO! :thumbup:

[Hawk]

He called at 5:12, didn't get her and then called back and got her at 5:14.


I was going by Detective Neckels testimony to Mr. Brewer, there may be conflicting statements by other officers. Maybe we'll see the Verizon phone records, though I haven't seen where the list has submitted by the state.

My question is this; How could Mrs. Romero (I guess we should call her Devall since that's how she's listed on the witness list) have overheard the 911 call when she'd already left the Kirks? If she was at the murder scene prior to the call she couldn't have been at Wilbur's at the time. The only way she could have done it would be to say hello and goodbye to the Kirks, go home to do the deeds, then drive back to NAPA for her two minute visit before her phone rang a second time.

Make sense? Or did I not read something correctly?

[muska]

Why has it taken so long for the DA's office to disclose what is on the last suplement?

I don't know. Maybe some took a long time to get back and maybe they just put off disclosing as long as they could. It is probably not to their advantage to give anything to defense before they have to.

[muska]

I was going by Detective Neckels testimony to Mr. Brewer, there may be conflicting statements by other officers. Maybe we'll see the Verizon phone records, though I haven't seen where the list has submitted by the state.

My question is this; How could Mrs. Romero (I guess we should call her Devall since that's how she's listed on the witness list) have overheard the 911 call when she'd already left the Kirks? If she was at the murder scene prior to the call she couldn't have been at Wilbur's at the time. The only way she could have done it would be to say hello and goodbye to the Kirks, go home to do the deeds, then drive back to NAPA for her two minute visit before her phone rang a second time.

Make sense? Or did I not read something correctly?

IMO I think, most likely, Tiffany did not hear that call. If she's completely innocent, she would have checked it out immediately. If she was setting up an alibi, she would have acted very upset in front of the Kirks. I think she probably just missed that call.

I didn't see the second part of your post. I don't see Tiffany doing this herself. IF she had anything to do with it, I think she sent someone. That's just the way I feel about it.......I could be wrong.

Neckels did act a little uncomfortable, though, with Tiffany's time line so I suppose anything is possible. Also, I really don't know just how loud those calls are........I know some here have said they come in really loud.

[rusure?]

Most people don't stand still nor do they remain upright after such devastating shots. imo

If that is the case, then how could the defendent have shot two shots to Mr. Roman's chest so close together with single shots? Wouldn't the shots have to have been done in succession? If not, then please explain to me how two single shots could have been made to the chest so close together.

[rusure?]

I am not sure if anyone has already asked this, but where is the States 7th Supplemental Disclosure? I notice that it goes from 6th to 8th.

Why are transcripts of interviews with Tanya Romans and Tiffany Romero not listed in disclosures, but Eryn Bloomfield is? Didn't officers interview Tanya Romans and Tiffany Romero?

[Hawk]

IMO I think, most likely, Tiffany did not hear that call. If she's completely innocent, she would have checked it out immediately. If she was setting up an alibi, she would have acted very upset in front of the Kirks. I think she probably just missed that call.

I didn't see the second part of your post. I don't see Tiffany doing this herself. IF she had anything to do with it, I think she sent someone. That's just the way I feel about it.......I could be wrong.

Neckels did act a little uncomfortable, though, with Tiffany's time line so I suppose anything is possible. Also, I really don't know just how loud those calls are........I know some here have said they come in really loud.

I'm guessing they use the belt holster radio like the police. But I don't know. There does seem to be a brief timeline opportunity, but it seems highly unlikely to me, like you say, that she did the awful things herself. That doesn't exclude her participation though. Present or not.

I got cut off last night too, right in the middle of a reply. Thought I'd been banned.

[rusure?]

The calls can come in however loud you want them to. There is a volume control button. If it's anything like where I live, calls begin as a set of tones...My husband is a volunteer fireman and only responds when his tones come up. He has learned to sleep through every other call. I don't know of it works the same way as this town as described sounds very small. But all radios have volume control.

Is there a way to find out how SJ's works?

[muska]

I'm guessing they use the belt holster radio like the police. But I don't know. There does seem to be a brief timeline opportunity, but it seems highly unlikely to me, like you say, that she did the awful things herself. That doesn't exclude her participation though. Present or not.

I got cut off last night too, right in the middle of a reply. Thought I'd been banned.

I have always thought that if anything, Tiffany was setting up an alibi with all of her stops.......making sure she could prove she wasn't at the house.

That was weird last night.....glad it wasn't only my computer. That poster, RoyBean, had just posted for the first time........probably thinks we're a pretty unfriendly crowd!!

[JusticeDawg©]

I have always thought that if anything, Tiffany was setting up an alibi with all of her stops.......making sure she could prove she wasn't at the house.

That was weird last night.....glad it wasn't only my computer. That poster, RoyBean, had just posted for the first time........probably thinks we're a pretty unfriendly crowd!!
I went to answer and the board died. I lost Candy's myspace link anyway.

[Hawk]

I have always thought that if anything, Tiffany was setting up an alibi with all of her stops.......making sure she could prove she wasn't at the house.

That was weird last night.....glad it wasn't only my computer. That poster, RoyBean, had just posted for the first time........probably thinks we're a pretty unfriendly crowd!!

I hope not. Roy Bean was a frontier judge after all. Might have some interesting things to add to the discussion!

[Hawk]

I lost Candy's myspace link.

Links are dropping like flies. Took them a long time to catch on.

[muska]

I am not sure if anyone has already asked this, but where is the States 7th Supplemental Disclosure? I notice that it goes from 6th to 8th.

Why are transcripts of interviews with Tanya Romans and Tiffany Romero not listed in disclosures, but Eryn Bloomfield is? Didn't officers interview Tanya Romans and Tiffany Romero?

You have lots of great questions. We would all love more answers! Tanya and Tiffany were both interviewed briefly that first day. I read that Tiffany was interviewed a few days later and I think they must have interviewed Tanya too. Tanya had a lawyer right away and was said to be uncooperative, but you'd think she must have sat down with the police at some point.

Does anyone else know?

[muska]

I hope not. Roy Bean was a frontier judge after all. Might have some interesting things to add to the discussion!

I hope so!! But was he a fair judge or was it wild west justice?

[JusticeDawg©]

You have lots of great questions. We would all love more answers! Tanya and Tiffany were both interviewed briefly that first day. I read that Tiffany was interviewed a few days later and I think they must have interviewed Tanya too. Tanya had a lawyer right away and was said to be uncooperative, but you'd think she must have sat down with the police at some point.

Does anyone else know?

I know Tanya walked out when they asked her about divorce.

[Hawk]

I hope so!! But was he a fair judge or was it wild west justice?

Google him when you have time. He was a character, alright! There was even an exaggerated movie about him staring Paul Newman.

[rusure?]

Who was the person who shot a hole in Roman's truck? Has that person been questioned or on the witness list. How many people have been questioned from the reservation? Was Misty's crazy boyfriend questioned? If so where is his interview transcript or is he on the witness list also?

Sorry for all the questions.

[rusure?]

Give me about 30 minutes...I'll call hubby and ask.

OK, thank you. I believe that would be good sound information to have.

[rusure?]

Since Nicole Allen is a close friend of Tiffany's, did officers question her?

Were the cashiers from Wilburs store questioned?

What was it Tiffany was doing at NAPA? Exchanging pants or purchasing? Did she leave pants there? Did anyone see her at NAPA?

Was Tanya questioned as to her whereabouts? Did anyone else have access to Roman's mother's car? If so were they questioned?

Did Romero have credit problems and that's why the house was in Tiffany's name?

[Hawk]

Who was the person who shot a hole in Roman's truck? Has that person been questioned or on the witness list. How many people have been questioned from the reservation? Was Misty's crazy boyfriend questioned? If so where is his interview transcript or is he on the witness list also?

Sorry for all the questions.

The hole was done by Mr. Romans cousin (or maybe cousin brother). Don't know if the San Carlos Police has questioned anyone there, or if there was a need to.

[rusure?]

Did officers question school personel about the boy's demeaner during the day of the murders? If so, where is the transcript or officers report of that?

Did anyone question the bus driver as to which way the boy went after getting of the bus? Did the bus driver notice anything unusual about his demeaner? Did others on the bus?

[rusure?]

The hole was done by Mr. Romans cousin (or maybe cousin brother). Don't know if the San Carlos Police has questioned anyone there, or if there was a need to.

Why would there not be a need to? Did anyone from SJ's police department question anyone there?

[rusure?]

I am so sorry for asking so many questions. I just want to know. I will stop asking questions for now and give you guys a chance to catch up.:blushing:

[rusure?]

I do have one more question. Was the trailer (or camper, mobile home) in the back yard ever searched? Did they have a warrant for that too?

[muska]

Who was the person who shot a hole in Roman's truck? Has that person been questioned or on the witness list. How many people have been questioned from the reservation? Was Misty's crazy boyfriend questioned? If so where is his interview transcript or is he on the witness list also?

Sorry for all the questions.

We don't know who they questioned. I think their minds were made up within 18 hours, maybe less. Even if they questioned these people, I wonder how hard they really looked. For instance, Brewer asked Neckels about her conversation with Tiffany the day after the shootings. Neckels pretty much told Tiffany that there was a problem with her story and gave her the correct answer....didn't wait at all to see what Tiffany might have said on her own. This is not to say that Tiffany wouldn't have answered the same way on her own, only to say Neckels should have wanted to see. That was the next day and I think their minds were already made up.

Tiffany was verified to be at NAPA.
I don't think it's going to help to know how the calls come in to their ambulances because we won't know how high their volume was turned up. I think it's unlikely Tiffany heard that call.

[Hawk]

I do have one more question. Was the trailer (or camper, mobile home) in the back yard ever searched? Did they have a warrant for that too?


Most all of the information made public can be found here. It's lengthy. ChildsVoice has done an outstanding job.

Please sign the petition while you're there!


http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=435515258&blogID=463437844

[muska]

Since Nicole Allen is a close friend of Tiffany's, did officers question her?

Were the cashiers from Wilburs store questioned?

What was it Tiffany was doing at NAPA? Exchanging pants or purchasing? Did she leave pants there? Did anyone see her at NAPA?

Was Tanya questioned as to her whereabouts? Did anyone else have access to Roman's mother's car? If so were they questioned?

Did Romero have credit problems and that's why the house was in Tiffany's name?

A transcript of an interview with Tim Romans' mother, Carol Alder, is on the most recent list of disclosure.

[rusure?]

I've been going over the reports again.:confused:

I may have misunderstood this part..Did Chief Melnick have the bodies removed before the crime scene techs made it to the house?

Yes.
I also noticed on the search warrant that Rodrigez tried to get that he said he arrived at 17:20. He also said the body was in the driveway, not the front porch.

[Hawk]

TO hawk and hot nostril
so that there is some closure to this on my part,
im also gonna tell ya the the same subject on websleuths is at about the same place as this one is
im still wondering how someone can be at the bottom of stairs shooting up since he fell on his chest and was going up the stairs and the bullet would make a LEVEL OR SLIGHT DOWNWARD trajectory?
so you all figure it out. ive got information im relying on and dont have to guess
im gonna tellya the results of the examination of the case that i was told is that the kid is innocent i accept that we ll all find out at some point in the future so i aint holdin my breath.
ive read somewhere about the height difference and they said the same thing i did .. so if you find the level or downward part you say it is post if for me so i can read it
you say you believe but are you certain where does it say that ?

Some people are of the opinion that all four shots to Mr. Romero were fired from the top pf the stairs due to the wounds and the empty casings locations, myself among them.
Others are sure that the back shot was done from the
lower steps of the first flight of stairs and Mr. Romero managed to turn the corner and continue up the 2nd flight of stairs, only to be shot from a different shooter standing at the top landing (hallway).
The debate over the downward angle of Mr. Romans chest wounds concerns the possibility that the lead bullets struck bone and forced downward into the abdomen from a taller shooter than someone 4' tall. Others think he may have been bent over or even on his knees.

If you have information that you're willing to share I'm sure everyone would welcome it. I certainly would.

[muska]

I've been going over the reports again.:confused:

I may have misunderstood this part..Did Chief Melnick have the bodies removed before the crime scene techs made it to the house?

The bodies were removed before DPS got there. Neckles and Brewer both that was a mistake. The police chief had them removed.

[JusticeDawg©]

Thank you rusure?.


WHY would an experienced Chief of Police have the bodies removed before evidence could be properly collected? The men were dead...no need to rush them off to the hospital.

This action...IMO, really screwed up the "crime scene".
He sure did. :scared:

[JusticeDawg©]

The bodies were removed before DPS got there. Neckles and Brewer both that was a mistake. The police chief had them removed.

Did the chief fire her yet for admitting HE made a mistake?:biggrin:

[Hawk]

Did the chief fire her yet for admitting HE made a mistake?:biggrin:

Nah, he's too busy looking for a new job. Detective Neckels might get promoted in the near future.

[Hawk]

I don't understand how a Chief with 28+ yrs. of LE experience makes a big mistake like the one he made.

It's not like he was saving a life. The men were already deceased.:sad:

Chief Melnick was instructed by DPS to remove the bodies for forensic examinations. Melnick did, as instructed.

[JusticeDawg©]

Chief Melnick was instructed by DPS to remove the bodies for forensic examinations. Melnick did, as instructed.

BEFORE they got there????

[Hawk]

BEFORE they got there????

Right. He was told over the phone the evening of the murders.
Supplemental Report #4. Page 1. Last paragraph.

[JusticeDawg©]

Right. He was told over the phone the evening of the murders.
Supplemental Report #4. Page 1. Last paragraph.

Then how did they do a reconstruction?

[mina]

Right. He was told over the phone the evening of the murders.
Supplemental Report #4. Page 1. Last paragraph.

Or at least that's his story and he's stickin' to it. Although heaven knows why he apparently allowed Neckel and Rodriguez to think it was all his decision.

[JusticeDawg©]

Press Release

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2027,%202009 .pdf

[Hawk]

Then how did they do a reconstruction?

The sheriff's department assisted in the initial investigation, so I assume that was good enough for Arizona DPS. There were hundreds of photos taken and experienced deputies there.
The bodies needed to be preserved ASAP because of contamination from possible wind, rain, bugs, etc., especially in the case of Mr. Romans. LE didn't tamper with the bodies but left that for the medical examiner.

[Pag Boi]

Don't know anything about the grocery store but the police ruled her out as a supect...but you're all missing the point...the boy did it. After the police took the boy next door, he didnt cry, he was emotionless and watched tv as if nothing had happened. No guilt with that boy.


Funny it's you that is so misinformed. The child was not watching television. :read:

The police didn't take the boy next door. Tif took him. He was sleeping in the neighbor's bedroom and Avila made her wake the child up.

[Hawk]

Or at least that's his story and he's stickin' to it. Although heaven knows why he apparently allowed Neckel and Rodriguez to think it was all his decision.

I don't think the chief would lie about that as it's a matter of public record and he could be questioned under oath at trial.
I'm not a big fan of the chief but let's give the devil his due...........

[Hawk]

Press Release

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2027,%202009 .pdf

The Gladiators prepare for the Coliseum.

[Perplexed1]

Chief Melnick was instructed by DPS to remove the bodies for forensic examinations. Melnick did, as instructed.

SOMEONE was pushing to get it cleaned up QUICK! :glare:

[muska]

Press Release

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20JANUARY%2027,%202009 .pdf

This is something that should not be allowed in juvenile cases. It makes sense for relatives and maybe a few close friends to be there and also a few members of the press..........but the public just gets to fill in the seats? I know that's how it works but I think it's kind of sick. Do they get to cheer for their side? If the child was a little older, it would probably be more upsetting to have a that audience. I hope he's young enough not to fully realize that they're there to look at him.

[muska]

SOMEONE was pushing to get it cleaned up QUICK! :glare:

I completely agree!! Whoever ordered it, that was a bad decision.

[Hawk]

SOMEONE was pushing to get it cleaned up QUICK! :glare:

I don't think so. The boy was dependent upon the court to appoint him counsel. Had he had a lawyer from the beginning perhaps the home wouldn't have been released until his investigator had a chance to look at it.
As it was there was no logical reason for the home owner to be denied her residence.
And of course she had it cleaned immediately. Her husbands brain matter and blood were there.
I agree the place is stigmatized, but it was the home owners choice to stay there. The court had no right to refuse her.

[FDInLaw]

I completely agree!! Whoever ordered it, that was a bad decision.

Can we find out who ordered it???

Just when you think the case can't look any more sketchy. . . :glare:

[rusure?]

Then how did they do a reconstruction?

chalk outline of the bodies? Doesn't LE do that after the bodies are removed?

[rusure?]

Hubby says they all work basically the same way as far as tones and they all definitely have volume control. He did discribe that our home scanner picks up calls for paramedics, police and fire but that's because he bought extra stuff so it would do that. His radio however only gets fire & rescue calls....but it also gets fire calls that are not his.

Hope that makes some sense. I only asked of they all had volume control..lol

Thanks. Any idea if anyone else in the parking lot heard the call?

[JusticeDawg©]

Can we find out who ordered it???

Just when you think the case can't look any more sketchy. . . :glare:

You are being too kind. :wink:

[Perplexed1]

I don't think so. The boy was dependent upon the court to appoint him counsel. Had he had a lawyer from the beginning perhaps the home wouldn't have been released until his investigator had a chance to look at it.
As it was there was no logical reason for the home owner to be denied her residence.
And of course she had it cleaned immediately. Her husbands brain matter and blood were there.
I agree the place is stigmatized, but it was the home owners choice to stay there. The court had no right to refuse her.

Sure. I'm just saying the AVERAGE new bride, wouldn't be in such a rush to clean up so she could get back in there. :unsure: IMO

[Perplexed1]

Sure. I'm just saying the AVERAGE new bride, wouldn't be in such a rush to clean up so she could get back in there. :unsure: IMO

I would be afraid to spend the night there. Would they be coming back for me?:scared: Unless, of course, I could kill my own snakes.........

[Hawk]

Sure. I'm just saying the AVERAGE new bride, wouldn't be in such a rush to clean up so she could get back in there. :unsure: IMO

I don't want to be rude, but what is an AVERAGE bride? Besides, she had the house built years earlier. It belongs to her.

I see what you mean, though. Don't know if I'd want to stay there either.

[Perplexed1]

I don't want to be rude, but what is an AVERAGE bride? Besides, she had the house built years earlier. It belongs to her.

I see what you mean, though. Don't know if I'd want to stay there either.

I mean one just a TINY bit emotionally involved here. For crying out LOUD! :glare:

[JusticeDawg©]

chalk outline of the bodies? Doesn't LE do that after the bodies are removed?

Who does that anymore? :confused:

[rusure?]

I don't think the chief would lie about that as it's a matter of public record and he could be questioned under oath at trial.
I'm not a big fan of the chief but let's give the devil his due...........

The fear of having to testify under oath has not stop liars before, has it. That's how people get charged with purgery.

[Hawk]

I mean one just a TINY bit emotionally involved here. For crying out LOUD! :glare:

Perhaps she felt compelled to overcome her natural feeling of mourning and had no fear. Maybe she's a defiant person who refused to let horror deprive her of fond memories that happened in the house.

[Hawk]

The fear of having to testify under oath has not stop liars before, has it. That's how people get charged with purgery.

The DPS representative would also testify if it came to that. Why would the chief lie anyway? There would be no reason.

[Perplexed1]

Perhaps she felt compelled to overcome her natural feeling of mourning and had no fear. Maybe she's a defiant person who refused to let horror deprive her of fond memories that happened in the house.

I think I'll talk to Me, Myself, and I until Sanity returns to the room.

[bkwits]

Don't know anything about the grocery store but the police ruled her out as a supect...but you're all missing the point...the boy did it. After the police took the boy next door, he didnt cry, he was emotionless and watched tv as if nothing had happened. No guilt with that boy.

Gee, I wish you had posted this months ago. You could have saved me hours of reading and thinking about this case. Not to mention finding out about firearms and ammo.

If I had known, as you do, that the BOY DID IT, I could have just concentrated on the issue of police brutality, and the child being denied any civil rights. Well, I guess the US Constitution is just a pesky interference to some who are in a big hurry to solve and convict.

But, alas, I am not as clever as you, to ascertain guilt because supposedly the boy didn't cry (but he did cry) and that he watched TV (he didn't). I hope you share other valuable observations with us.

IMO

[JD1974]

So now the bodies were moved also, this just ices the cake. So now we could even have the possibility of bodies not being where they were photographed? Seems even stranger that all of these supposed investigators (even the one who got her star that day) made all of these blunders and an 8 year old still ends up catching the rap.

[JD1974]

The DPS representative would also testify if it came to that. Why would the chief lie anyway? There would be no reason.

Maybe he doesn't want to get canned again before he finds out about the new job he put in for?

[Perplexed1]

Gee, I wish you had posted this months ago. You could have saved me hours of reading and thinking about this case. Not to mention finding out about firearms and ammo.

If I had known, as you do, that the BOY DID IT, I could have just concentrated on the issue of police brutality, and the child being denied any civil rights. Well, I guess the US Constitution is just a pesky interference to some who are in a big hurry to solve and convict.

But, alas, I am not as clever as you, to ascertain guilt because supposedly the boy didn't cry (but he did cry) and that he watched TV (he didn't). I hope you share other valuable observations with us.

IMO

Ditto :thumbup:
Hi Sanity, glad you're back.

[FDInLaw]

Often loved ones have difficulty returning to a home if it is the scene of a gruesome crime like this. You would think that she would be concerned about justice and her own personal safety which is linked to LE find the perpetrator. . . this in mind, any rushing seems odd IMO. Weird. It could be taken that she knew she had nothing to fear. Just thinking out loud here. . .

[Hawk]

I think I'll talk to Me, Myself, and I until Sanity returns to the room.

Suit yourself. I'm just trying to be fair and look at all angles. There are very emotionally strong people. No one knows how they will react to a given situation until they are forced to deal with that particular situation. To say, "Well, if it was me I'd ........." is seldom the reality when one is actually put in that position.

[Perplexed1]

So now the bodies were moved also, this just ices the cake. So now we could even have the possibility of bodies not being where they were photographed? Seems even stranger that all of these supposed investigators (even the one who got her star that day) made all of these blunders and an 8 year old still ends up catching the rap.

Easy pawn, huh?:rolleyes:

[Perplexed1]

Often loved ones have difficulty returning to a home if it is the scene of a gruesome crime like this. You would think that she would be concerned about justice and her own personal safety which is linked to LE find the perpetrator. . . this in mind, any rushing seems odd IMO. Weird. It could be taken that she knew she had nothing to fear. Just thinking out loud here. . .

MORE sanity...:laugh:

[rusure?]

So now the bodies were moved also, this just ices the cake. So now we could even have the possibility of bodies not being where they were photographed? Seems even stranger that all of these supposed investigators (even the one who got her star that day) made all of these blunders and an 8 year old still ends up catching the rap.

I said earlier that Rodrigez said TR's body was in the driveway, not the front porch in the form for getting a search warrant. Maybe TR's body was moved? Oh, and I believe he stated he arrived on the scene at 5:20. I thought Neckel and he arrived together before the EMS?

[JD1974]

Although I try not to judge what people do to mourn loved ones that have died whether by murder or any other means...it does seem a bit strange they let her go back in and didn't bother really processing the house, stranger that she did it so fast.

I would like to know how any defense experts in any case get to use the crime scene if they are all released so quickly?

[JD1974]

I said earlier that Rodrigez said TR's body was in the driveway, not the front porch in the form for getting a search warrant. Maybe TR's body was moved? Oh, and I believe he stated he arrived on the scene at 5:20. I thought Neckel and he arrived together before the EMS?


Yeah, isn't that odd? First he is in the driveway then he miraculously revives and moves to the front porch so they can take pictures.

[Perplexed1]

well i will be doing a lot of praying tonight for the little boy tomorrow. thats all i've done it seems like lately. i hope that everything turns out for this little boy and his mother. yeah i may be emotionally involved,but how can you not when we are talking about a little boy from the start with that stupid confession then thrown into jail totally isolated all in less than 24 hours, and still sitting there. what in the world is wrong with apache county? my heart continues to break for this little boy and will do so until he is in the care of his mother and getting the help he needs. i find myself giving my own son more hugs and kisses. anyway whether tiffany had anything to do with the crime i hope she gets hers in the end for leaving that little boy alone with weapons and ammo. shame on her.

Exactly. :thumbup:

[Hawk]

Yeah, isn't that odd? First he is in the driveway then he miraculously revives and moves to the front porch so they can take pictures.

The driveway and porch are a single slab of concrete. No one moved the bodies until removal.

[muska]

Yeah, isn't that odd? First he is in the driveway then he miraculously revives and moves to the front porch so they can take pictures.

An endless stream of inconsistencies. Some are easily figured out but in their totality they make it difficult, at best, to have confidence in the investigation.

[muska]

I don't want to be rude, but what is an AVERAGE bride? Besides, she had the house built years earlier. It belongs to her.

I see what you mean, though. Don't know if I'd want to stay there either.

It may not matter but the early articles say that Vincent and Tiffany built the house together. I just looked back at them.

[Hawk]

It may not matter but the early articles say that Vincent and Tiffany built the house together. I just looked back at them.

The house is in Tiffany Devall's name.

[Kara]

Funny it's you that is so misinformed. The child was not watching television. :read:

The police didn't take the boy next door. Tif took him. He was sleeping in the neighbor's bedroom and Avila made her wake the child up.
He was sleeping? Seriously? What time was this at?

[muska]

The house is in Tiffany Devall's name.

I know it's in her name. I wonder why. Did she have the money to build it? Or did VR want to protect the house from someone or something........maybe the mother of his other child or maybe whoever had the lawsuit against him? It is another angle which may or may not have any significance.

[JusticeDawg©]

I think I'll talk to Me, Myself, and I until Sanity returns to the room.

I'm here. :biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

Often loved ones have difficulty returning to a home if it is the scene of a gruesome crime like this. You would think that she would be concerned about justice and her own personal safety which is linked to LE find the perpetrator. . . this in mind, any rushing seems odd IMO. Weird. It could be taken that she knew she had nothing to fear. Just thinking out loud here. . .

What time was the home released to her? They arrested the suspect didn't they, the very next day after the murders?

imo

[Hawk]

I know it's in her name. I wonder why. Did she have the money to build it? Or did VR want to protect the house from someone or something........maybe the mother of his other child or maybe whoever had the lawsuit against him? It is another angle which may or may not have any significance.

Probably insignificant. I don't know their financial situation or arrangement. Maybe she had the money?
It isn't unusual for contract workers with variable income to put everything in their full time employed spouses name (in this case of course the house was built long before the marriage).
Mr. Romans' truck was in his wife's name with his mother listed as co-owner.

[GentleBreeze]

Suit yourself. I'm just trying to be fair and look at all angles. There are very emotionally strong people. No one knows how they will react to a given situation until they are forced to deal with that particular situation. To say, "Well, if it was me I'd ........." is seldom the reality when one is actually put in that position.

And we don't know if she may have had friends and family members come in to clean up the two blood pools before she started staying there again.

imo

[Kara]

I know it's in her name. I wonder why. Did she have the money to build it? Or did VR want to protect the house from someone or something........maybe the mother of his other child or maybe whoever had the lawsuit against him? It is another angle which may or may not have any significance.
If the vacant lot was in her name, all improvements will belong to the land and stay in her name alone unless she adds her husband to the property deed.

[Hawk]

And we don't know if she may have had friends and family members come in to clean up the two blood pools before she started staying there again.

imo

Right. And there are companies that specialize in crime scene cleanup that homeowners insurance will pay for. Very common.

[GentleBreeze]

Probably insignificant. I don't know their financial situation or arrangement. Maybe she had the money?
It isn't unusual for contract workers with variable income to put everything in their full time employed spouses name (in this case of course the house was built long before the marriage).
Mr. Romans' truck was in his wife's name with his mother listed as co-owner.

Also maybe Vinnie and the boy came to live in her house since she owned one already.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Right. And there are companies that specialize in crime scene cleanup that homeowners insurance will pay for. Very common.

You are right. They have bio-hazard companies that do this very thing when there has been a murder or suicide in a home that needs to be cleaned up thoroughly.

imoo

[muska]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, and for looking for Candy's link. It was strange last night when the board went AWOL--I just assumed it was my connection.

It seems to me that this latest disclosure from the state focuses a lot more on Tim Romans--his mother's statement (and her white car), Candy's MySpace page etc. But what does Eryn's lengthy interview have in it? Enquiring minds . . .

It will be interesting to hear about the white car.

[muska]

You are right. They have bio-hazard companies that do this very thing when there has been a murder or suicide in a home that needs to be cleaned up thoroughly.

imoo

I hope they had insurance to cover it. That would be horrible to have to do on your own. I didn't know insurance would cover it and was thinking they would have had to do that on their own. I read that it can run $200 per hour.

[Hawk]

Also maybe Vinnie and the boy came to live in her house since she owned one already.

imoo

I don't know, and not that it matters, but the boy probably isn't entitled to any of the property. (Such as borrowing money using the house as collateral for future defence lawyers).

If he goes to jail he has no financial resources to help him. In America you might as well throw away the key.

[JusticeDawg©]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, and for looking for Candy's link. It was strange last night when the board went AWOL--I just assumed it was my connection.

It seems to me that this latest disclosure from the state focuses a lot more on Tim Romans--his mother's statement (and her white car), Candy's MySpace page etc. But what does Eryn's lengthy interview have in it? Enquiring minds . . .

CR told his mom things that I am sure she passed along to LE.:smile:

[muska]

I don't know, and not that it matters, but the boy probably isn't entitled to any of the property. (Such as borrowing money using the house as collateral for future defence lawyers).

If he goes to jail he has no financial resources to help him. In America you might as well throw away the key.

Justice is expensive in the USA. Sad but true.

Kind of like our health care system......best in the world as long as you have plenty of money.

[wolfi_2]

This is something that should not be allowed in juvenile cases. It makes sense for relatives and maybe a few close friends to be there and also a few members of the press..........but the public just gets to fill in the seats? I know that's how it works but I think it's kind of sick. Do they get to cheer for their side? If the child was a little older, it would probably be more upsetting to have a that audience. I hope he's young enough not to fully realize that they're there to look at him.

I'm still surprised that in a juvenile case, the public and media is allowed to be in court! I think they need tomorrow the full security items for the boy to protect all those people. (I just like to be a little sarcastic)

[Hawk]

Tomorrow's hearing is at 10:00 am and Judge Roca has another criminal hearing scheduled for 2:00 pm.

On Feb. 6th the only thing on the court calender will be this case.
Does this mean that most of the information we all want to know will be postponed until the 6th, or will the judge rule on Mr. Brewer's motion to suppress the search warrant be ruled on? How about the motion to dismiss count #1?

[Hawk]

I'm still surprised that in a juvenile case, the public and media is allowed to be in court! I think they need tomorrow the full security items for the boy to protect all those people. (I just like to be a little sarcastic)

Maybe they'll bring the boy in wearing Hannibal Lecter's transport gear.

[rusure?]

The driveway and porch are a single slab of concrete. No one moved the bodies until removal.

The point here, I believe, is that the head of the investigation wrote in a request for a search warrant information that is not correct. The time he arrived on the scene he stated on that request is questionable as well.

[GentleBreeze]

I hope they had insurance to cover it. That would be horrible to have to do on your own. I didn't know insurance would cover it and was thinking they would have had to do that on their own. I read that it can run $200 per hour.

I sure know I couldn't clean it up if it was one of my loved ones and I have a strong stomach and blood doesn't really bother me that much. But that would instantly change if I knew the blood I cleaned up came from a friend or someone I loved, especially if they had been murdered.

I have heard that insurance companies will send someone out to do it for you. I sure hope she had this kind of insurance on her homeowner's policy. Blood left can lead to health problems if it is not clean up properly, especially in carpet where it probably has soaked through all the way into the plywood underneath.

imoo

[Hawk]

The point here, I believe, is that the head of the investigation wrote in a request for a search warrant information that is not correct. The time he arrived on the scene he stated on that request is questionable as well.

Anyone can make a clerical mistake.

[rusure?]

It may not matter but the early articles say that Vincent and Tiffany built the house together. I just looked back at them.

So why is the house not in both names. Did VR have credit problems?

[wolfi_2]

Maybe they'll bring the boy in wearing Hannibal Lecter's transport gear.

that would be very useful….:cursing:

[Perplexed1]

I think I'll talk to Me, Myself, and I until Sanity returns to the room.

The Dawg is back! :smile:

[Pag Boi]

He was sleeping? Seriously? What time was this at?


TA told BB it was around 6:30

[Hawk]

The Dawg is back! :smile:

Good. Now you have someone sane to talk to.

[GentleBreeze]

It wouldn't bother me AT ALL to buy a home someone was killed in. I don't believe in ghosts or whatever...but I wouldn't want to stay in a house a loved was murdered in.

Houses are bought all the time where a murder or suicide has occurred. Some are just not squeamish about what happened there in the past. Usually the home has been cleaned up spotless and if blood was on the carpet or such, then the old carpet is ripped up and replaced.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Maybe they'll bring the boy in wearing Hannibal Lecter's transport gear.

:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

So why is the house not in both names. Did VR have credit problems?

Why would it be in Vinnie's name. I thought the house had been in her name since 2003?

[FDInLaw]

What time was the home released to her? They arrested the suspect didn't they, the very next day after the murders?

imoYou talk as if a thorough investigation was done. The hast in this case is gonna bite LE in the butt, mark my words. . . if this boy goes to trial, LE will spend a great deal of the time in the hot seat IMO. Green doesn't even begin to describe the mistakes that were made.

[rusure?]

Anyone can make a clerical mistake.

I believe that in something as important as a request for a search warrant, one would not make any mistakes as this sometimes causes a means for throwing out the search warrant and any evidence collected.

Clerical mistakes in other things, maybe, but not in something like this.

[JusticeDawg©]

TA told BB it was around 6:30

He was escaping. Shock will cause sleep also.

[Jacobtk]

Tomorrow's hearing is at 10:00 am and Judge Roca has another criminal hearing scheduled for 2:00 pm.

On Feb. 6th the only thing on the court calender will be this case.
Does this mean that most of the information we all want to know will be postponed until the 6th, or will the judge rule on Mr. Brewer's motion to suppress the search warrant be ruled on? How about the motion to dismiss count #1?

The Feb. 6th hearing is the competency hearing. I doubt Roca will move other pertinent issues to that date. The short hearing tomorrow is interesting to the extent it does not grant Carlyon much room to plead his case for the dismissal of the charge. There is also an earlier hearing, presumably with this case, at 9:00 am. If it does involve this case, I wonder why the public and media would not be privy to that. Perhaps something is being discussed, which might explain why the following hearing is so short. It seems unlikely, however, that both charges will be dismissed when the judge has already set the Feb. 6th hearing.

[GentleBreeze]

You talk as if a thorough investigation was done. The hast in this case is gonna bite LE in the butt, mark my words. . . if this boy goes to trial, LE will spend a great deal of the time in the hot seat IMO. Green doesn't even begin to describe the mistakes that were made.

How do you know the investigation of the crime scene wasn't done by then? Even though the bodies had been removed, DPS was on the scene in around 4 hours from what I recall and they were there into the early morning.

When did the defense team ask to see the scene? I don't know of one defense team that is allowed there until the crime scene has been released by LE.

imoo

[rusure?]

Why would it be in Vinnie's name. I thought the house had been in her name since 2003?

Because, I thought they built it together.

[muska]

I believe that in something as important as a request for a search warrant, one would not make any mistakes as this sometimes causes a means for throwing out the search warrant and any evidence collected.

Clerical mistakes in other things, maybe, but not in something like this.

And how many errors can you excuse? They have that other pesky problem with the search warrant too..........it was signed not by an objective judge but instead by a friend of Vincent Romero. Any of these things alone might be excusable but at some point, enough is enough.

[Perplexed1]

You talk as if a thorough investigation was done. The hast in this case is gonna bite LE in the butt, mark my words. . . if this boy goes to trial, LE will spend a great deal of the time in the hot seat IMO. Green doesn't even begin to describe the mistakes that were made.

The sound of sanity. :biggrin:

[Hawk]

The Feb. 6th hearing is the competency hearing. I doubt Roca will move other pertinent issues to that date. The short hearing tomorrow is interesting to the extent it does not grant Carlyon much room to plead his case for the dismissal of the charge. There is also an earlier hearing, presumably with this case, at 9:00 am. If it does involve this case, I wonder why the public and media would not be privy to that. Perhaps something is being discussed, which might explain why the following hearing is so short. It seems unlikely, however, that both charges will be dismissed when the judge has already set the Feb. 6th hearing.

Thanks. I'm just anxious. Don't know why. I won't have anything to talk about when this case has been resolved!

[JusticeDawg©]

How do you know the investigation of the crime scene wasn't done by then? Even though the bodies had been removed, DPS was on the scene in around 4 hours from what I recall and they were there into the early morning.

When did the defense team ask to see the scene? I don't know of one defense team that is allowed there until the crime scene has been released by LE.

imoo

Try and keep up, ok?

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=17704@knxv.dayport.com&navCatId=3

[rusure?]

How do you know the investigation of the crime scene wasn't done by then? Even though the bodies had been removed, DPS was on the scene in around 4 hours from what I recall and they were there into the early morning.

When did the defense team ask to see the scene? I don't know of one defense team that is allowed there until the crime scene has been released by LE.

imoo

I thought DPS told the Neckel or Rodrigez they would be there around nine the next morning.

[muska]

Because, I thought they built it together.

This was mentioned in several early articles. If anyone feels they need a link, I'll find it. :smile:

[GentleBreeze]

Because, I thought they built it together.

2003 was way before their marriage in 2008. From what I read they only had planned to marry in the past two years. Maybe since he was in construction he helped her build the home as a friend then, not as a future husband.

imoo

[Jacobtk]

How do you know the investigation of the crime scene wasn't done by then? Even though the bodies had been removed, DPS was on the scene in around 4 hours from what I recall and they were there into the early morning.

The problem is the potential for evidence to be contaminated, disturbed, lost or ignored. When Brewer questioned Neckels and Rodriguez, neither of them could give any clear explanation of the order in which things occurred. Rodriguez in particular did not seem to care at all. If the bodies were moved, that means the casings could have been moved as well by accident. If more than ten shots were fired, those casings could have rolled into the gravel or the dirt and have been covered.

That is probably why Brewer and Woods want everything gathered from the scene tossed. It cannot be trusted because of the back-asswards manner the investigation occurred in.

[muska]

The Feb. 6th hearing is the competency hearing. I doubt Roca will move other pertinent issues to that date. The short hearing tomorrow is interesting to the extent it does not grant Carlyon much room to plead his case for the dismissal of the charge. There is also an earlier hearing, presumably with this case, at 9:00 am. If it does involve this case, I wonder why the public and media would not be privy to that. Perhaps something is being discussed, which might explain why the following hearing is so short. It seems unlikely, however, that both charges will be dismissed when the judge has already set the Feb. 6th hearing.

I sure hope you're right. I have to admit I am worried.

[JusticeDawg©]

Thanks. I'm just anxious. Don't know why. I won't have anything to talk about when this case has been resolved!

You? Silenced? :scared:

:tonguewag:

[Hawk]

I believe that in something as important as a request for a search warrant, one would not make any mistakes as this sometimes causes a means for throwing out the search warrant and any evidence collected.

Clerical mistakes in other things, maybe, but not in something like this.

I agree that there are a lot of blanks on witness statements, search warrants and other documents. Not a good thing. Could be cause for rejection.
Not that's it's an acceptable excuse, it isn't, but I think this was the 14th search warrant issued for the year at that time.

Both Neckels and Rodriguez testified at the first hearing that the body was in front of the door.

[Jacobtk]

Thanks. I'm just anxious. Don't know why. I won't have anything to talk about when this case has been resolved!

I hope it will be resolved soon. The boy has spent nearly three months in isolation. That is enough to cause him substantial psychological damage, along with the betrayal of trust committed by Neckels and Tiffany, people who were supposedly his friends and cared about him.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=17704@knxv.dayport.com&navCatId=3

So the defense did go into the home and even took measurements.

The attorney said that SJPD and DPS had already been there.

One other interesting thing he said when talking about the motion to dismiss is when he said the DA is perfectly in his rights to charge him at a later date if the motion to dismiss is done.

imoo

[rusure?]

And how many errors can you excuse? They have that other pesky problem with the search warrant too..........it was signed not by an objective judge but instead by a friend of Vincent Romero. Any of these things alone might be excusable but at some point, enough is enough.

The DA also had a mistake in his Delinquent Petition. He said "Petitioner, this 5th day of November, alleges that said child is delinquent,. . ."
The date of the petition is actually the 7th.

Another mistake that should not have been made.

[Hawk]

I hope it will be resolved soon. The boy has spent nearly three months in isolation. That is enough to cause him substantial psychological damage, along with the betrayal of trust committed by Neckels and Tiffany, people who were supposedly his friends and cared about him.

I guess the judge was in a tough spot from the beginning. Had he released the boy to grandma he couldn't have just gone back to school as if nothing had happened. He couldn't be released to a mother who lives out of state.

If the boy was a member of a rich family he may have never spent a night in jail. It ain't right but it's the way it is.

[rusure?]

Another mistake,
The supplimental disclosure notices are numbered:
3,4,5,6,8,9

Where is supplimental disclosure 7?

[Hawk]

Another mistake,
The supplimental disclosure notices are numbered:
3,4,5,6,8,9

Where is supplimental disclosure 7?


It's under the drivers seat of the motor home parked out back

[GentleBreeze]

It's under the drivers seat of the motor home parked out back

:thumbsup::lol:

Maybe Wood forgot to ask.

[dgfred]

He was escaping. Shock will cause sleep also.

When I'm depressed about something, all I really want to do is sleep.

[rusure?]

I noticed the defenses motion for a jury trial was not answered by the DA or a order entered by the judge. Anybody know where this issue stands?

[Pag Boi]

He was escaping. Shock will cause sleep also.


ITA. Disconnect from reality.

The whole "flat" effect LE kept describing is ridiculous. Avila and Neckles have no skills interviewing children JMOO. The kid was prolly numb from the trauma. confused and bewildered, he seems like he just went along with whatever they said.

Meanwhile those 2 sorry community peacekeepers are singing their own praises for manipulating an 8yo. Gives unskilled labor a new meaning JMOO

[GentleBreeze]

The problem is the potential for evidence to be contaminated, disturbed, lost or ignored. When Brewer questioned Neckels and Rodriguez, neither of them could give any clear explanation of the order in which things occurred. Rodriguez in particular did not seem to care at all. If the bodies were moved, that means the casings could have been moved as well by accident. If more than ten shots were fired, those casings could have rolled into the gravel or the dirt and have been covered.

That is probably why Brewer and Woods want everything gathered from the scene tossed. It cannot be trusted because of the back-asswards manner the investigation occurred in.

Oh I have no doubt that the defense team will go this route. That has just about become rudimentary in most cases.

Photos were taken before the bodies were removed or disturbed from their original location. I am also sure the casings close to the bodies were also photographed in their original location.

I even remember seeing a crime scene photo of Vincent Romero laying there with a bloody face. I can't even remember which media site put it up but it was quickly taken down. So imo there are a vast amount of photos that preserved the original scene, just most of them have not been shown to the public.

imoo

[Perplexed1]

ITA. Disconnect from reality.

The whole "flat" effect LE kept describing is ridiculous. Avila and Neckles have no skills interviewing children JMOO. The kid was prolly numb from the trauma. confused and bewildered, he seems like he just went along with whatever they said.

Meanwhile those 2 sorry community peacekeepers are singing their own praises for manipulating an 8yo. Gives unskilled labor a new meaning JMOO

:thumbsup:

[GentleBreeze]

I noticed the defenses motion for a jury trial was not answered by the DA or a order entered by the judge. Anybody know where this issue stands?

The Judge denied the defense motion.

It is in one of the PFDs relatively soon after the case began.

May have been in one of the minutes for one of the hearing.

imo

[Pag Boi]

I just noticed in Avila's writeup that Tif said she talked to VR at 4:27 and that her dad talked to VR about 15 minutes later, which if true, would be right about the time she was getting the spaghetti dinner. Good thing Tif had it all covered JMOO

[rusure?]

I just noticed in Avila's writeup that Tif said she talked to VR at 4:27 and that her dad talked to VR about 15 minutes later, which if true, would be right about the time she was getting the spaghetti dinner. Good thing Tif had it all covered JMOO

What is her dad's name. Is he on the witness list? Did the police question him also?

[rusure?]

The Judge denied the defense motion.

It is in one of the PFDs relatively soon after the case began.

May have been in one of the minutes for one of the hearing.

imo

It must be somewhere else because there is not an "Order" document like when the judge grants a motion or denys a motion for something.

[muska]

I noticed the defenses motion for a jury trial was not answered by the DA or a order entered by the judge. Anybody know where this issue stands?

I know the judge ruled against the jury trial but I wonder if that could be appealed. There have been a few comments that have made me think that Brewer may not have given up entirely on this possibility.

I just saw your response above. Maybe this hasn't received a final ruling and that's why I have had that feeling. I just think that Brewer has made suggestions a couple of times as if this hasn't been completely ruled out.

[muska]

I just noticed in Avila's writeup that Tif said she talked to VR at 4:27 and that her dad talked to VR about 15 minutes later, which if true, would be right about the time she was getting the spaghetti dinner. Good thing Tif had it all covered JMOO

Why wouldn't she have gone to get CR if she was only running errands? That doesn't make sense to me.

[JusticeDawg©]

It's under the drivers seat of the motor home parked out back

:lol::lol::lol:

[rusure?]

Why would there be two returns on the warrant 2008-0014?
The first warrant said it had to be returned within 3 days. The warrant was issued on the 5th. It was returned on the 10th

The second return was dated the 18th. Although it was amended, seems a bit past 3 days on both counts. The amended one only changed the address. (Which should have made the 1st one invalid anyway).

[GentleBreeze]

It must be somewhere else because there is not an "Order" document like when the judge grants a motion or denys a motion for something.


Here ya go!

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/PREADJUDICATION%20HEARING.pdf

[bkwits]

Why wouldn't she have gone to get CR if she was only running errands? That doesn't make sense to me.

I think the boy was left on his own quite a lot. She prob didn't even think about it.

IMO