Sunday Jan 25 Part II

[Cinsd]

Good afternoon, here we can start fresh. That last thread was an all nighter:biggrin:

All for Caylee and justice

[Cinsd]

Thanks MrLucky for posting the link on the last thread.

[katfish]

I just got on for the first time today, and sorry if this has been discussed, is George home yet and out of the hospital?

someone commented last thread that George would stay in the hospital until Monday.

[martha]

Hi everyone I can;t stay but I will be back later and hope to find out the newest on george. I guess nothing new on casey or cindy.jmho

[*MoonRider*]

It's not an assumption. Cindy made it clear during the bond hearing that Casey had not been diagnosed with any psychiatric disorders (paraphrasing). I'm sure that if Cindy had taken Casey for help, but she remained undiagnosed, Cindy would have made that clear at the same time. <coughcough>

Bringing that post over from SayWhat03 from today's earlier thread. Exiled said it was assumption. paraphrase

I've rarely if ever seen so much documentation this early in a case. I can't believe all the nay-sayers who are claiming there is no evidence, no facts in this case.

That was indeed sworn testimony from a witness in a court proceeding in this case.

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:

[NYGalPal]

It's not an assumption. Cindy made it clear during the bond hearing that Casey had not been diagnosed with any psychiatric disorders (paraphrasing). I'm sure that if Cindy had taken Casey for help, but she remained undiagnosed, Cindy would have made that clear at the same time. <coughcough>

Bringing that post over from SayWhat03 from today's earlier thread. Exiled said it was assumption. paraphrase

I've rarely if ever seen so much documentation this early in a case. I can't believe all the nay-sayers who are claiming there is no evidence, no facts in this case.

That was indeed sworn testimony from a witness in a court proceeding in this case.

There is one nay-sayers say the same thing for every case where the defendent is overwhelmingly guilty. If they witnessed the murder, they'd still claim innocense. Looking for a reaction is all. imo

[rosieposett]

It's not an assumption. Cindy made it clear during the bond hearing that Casey had not been diagnosed with any psychiatric disorders (paraphrasing). I'm sure that if Cindy had taken Casey for help, but she remained undiagnosed, Cindy would have made that clear at the same time. <coughcough>

Bringing that post over from SayWhat03 from today's earlier thread. Exiled said it was assumption. paraphrase

I've rarely if ever seen so much documentation this early in a case. I can't believe all the nay-sayers who are claiming there is no evidence, no facts in this case.

That was indeed sworn testimony from a witness in a court proceeding in this case.

Hi all and Adalena. Personally I love all the documentation. Glad it is legal for our eyes to see it. I also like your posts Adalena.

[Cinsd]

latest news today is that he is still in the hospital.

CINDS- don't forget to PM coldwater to sticky this thread

done, thanks

[ellegna]

Yep. Exactly. Residue in the shape of a heart found on the duct tape. Nowhere did it say WHERE on the duct tape that residue was found.

NG, however, made a big point of smashing down her hand on her lips, "demonstrating" how Casey must have mashed down that sticker on Caylee's lips...... :huh:


What night was that? If you're referring to her show on the 21st, I believe what NG said was misunderstood. NG sort of said it backwards. Through out the rest of the show, NG kept saying on the duct tape

GRACE: A heart-shaped sticker placed over the mouth on the duct tape. Stacy Dittrich, former detective and author of "The Devil`s Closet," that is some really good police work, to notice that -- first, I guess the autopsy revealed a heart-shaped imprint of a sticky, of adhesive. Can they go out and actually find the little sticker?


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/21/ng.01.html

Here's the video of the beginning of her show
Nancy part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i_a_Di64knA&feature=related

[Barbara fl.]

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:



Don't forget "a loving mother" should win the "mother of the year"...was a very good mother, loved Caylee very much......all that but she was still going to try and get custody just before all this happened.....figure it?

[5boxersmom]

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:

Thank you. That was the one I was remembering.

[SavannahStar]

What night was that? If you're referring to her show on the 21st, I believe what NG said was misunderstood. NG sort of said it backwards. Through out the rest of the show, NG kept saying on the duct tape

GRACE: A heart-shaped sticker placed over the mouth on the duct tape. Stacy Dittrich, former detective and author of "The Devil`s Closet," that is some really good police work, to notice that -- first, I guess the autopsy revealed a heart-shaped imprint of a sticky, of adhesive. Can they go out and actually find the little sticker?


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/21/ng.01.html

Here's the video of the beginning of her show
Nancy part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i_a_Di64knA&feature=related

Hey ellegna......not sure what show it was, but the one I'm speaking of showed NG smashing her hand down on her lips. Haven't watched the vid yet. Sorry, I don't think I can handle that anyway......how long is it? The length of her show?......ARGGGGGGGGH!

I know what I saw.

[Regina.Lampert]

Don't forget "a loving mother" should win the "mother of the year"...was a very good mother, loved Caylee very much......all that but she was still going to try and get custody just before all this happened.....figure it?

What a great observation Barbara!

[SavannahStar]

What night was that? If you're referring to her show on the 21st, I believe what NG said was misunderstood. NG sort of said it backwards. Through out the rest of the show, NG kept saying on the duct tape

GRACE: A heart-shaped sticker placed over the mouth on the duct tape. Stacy Dittrich, former detective and author of "The Devil`s Closet," that is some really good police work, to notice that -- first, I guess the autopsy revealed a heart-shaped imprint of a sticky, of adhesive. Can they go out and actually find the little sticker?


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/21/ng.01.html

Here's the video of the beginning of her show
Nancy part 1
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i_a_Di64knA&feature=related


Have to add......what she SHOULD have said (IMO) is that the heart shaped sticker was placed on the duct tape which was over the mouth.

See the difference? We know the duct tape was over the mouth. It also covered other areas. We don't know that the sticker was on the mouth area.

[Lapis]

There is one nay-sayers say the same thing for every case where the defendent is overwhelmingly guilty. If they witnessed the murder, they'd still claim innocense. Looking for a reaction is all. imo

Not looking for a reaction........... But as every good trial attorney knows you have to tell a story to the jury and weave the evidence into the story. This is especially true with circumstantial evidence cases. You have to show the evidence points to this and only this defendant. So for those who believe this is a premeditated murder case......What is the story?

[cloe23]

Don't forget "a loving mother" should win the "mother of the year"...was a very good mother, loved Caylee very much......all that but she was still going to try and get custody just before all this happened.....figure it?

Casey is such a gonner. Her behaviors after Caylee was out of the picture were fueled by the worst case of selfishness I have ever seen, read or heard of just sick, I try not to be that judgemental but how could she even eat? Let alone shake around a stripper pole, play drinking games and smoke more dupe then usual is just plain evil.:cursing: I almost feel sorry for her defence(until there is another presser and he pizzes me off again.)
My opinion of course.

[sunstar]

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:

She can describe Casey anyway she wants because that's her "belief", but if there is any untruth about Casey being treated for a psychiatric disorder LE would find that out. :) MOO

[sunstar]

when is Casey's next court date? TIA

An article yesterday said it is 1/30 at 8:30am. :)

[cloe23]

I brought this over from the other thread because I see that some posters are still complaining about folks that have not yet made up their minds. I posted this over on the other thread so this is "posted by January".....

I can see how some may be still undecided and just terrified to post that on these boards. The majority rules here, I guess. I have an extremely logical mind and I can see someone waiting for a piece of evidence that would link Casey directly to the killing of this child. Technically, none of the evidence that has been released to this point does that. This doesn't even go to innocent until proven guilty, it's beyond. Reason being that I am sure they have enough evidence to link her to disposing the body but nothing concrete in the way of her hand ending this child's life. And with all the insane things that Casey has said and done up to this point, how can we rule out 100% that she did not leave this child with someone (we are not even allowed to discuss the reasons why here, but think back) who accidently overdosed her or smothered her and just dumped her back onto Casey knowing full well that she would never be able to tell the truth, especially if she was involved and/or involving this child in something unspeakable.

So I would not attack or ridicule someone just because they are still toying with other theories that may hold water because they, like myself, are saddled with an overly logical mind.


Well January why the heck didn't she take the plea? Coz imo she is guilty and thinks she is smarter then the law. I can't think of one thing at all that defends Casey, nothing.

[Pat]

Will the court order a psych eval on Cayse?

[Lapis]

Will the court order a psych eval on Cayse?

One has already been done after the first charges were filed and has been sealed by the court. IIRC

[cloe23]

Will the court order a psych eval on Cayse?

She has had two IIRC. My question is will the defence order one?

[jammies]

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:


....loves sunsets and long walks on the beach. :)

[kitty1182]

Well why would Casey let herself stay in jail if someone else done this?
She is much to into herself to do this. I think I understand where your going with this but I really don't think this is what happened here but you have every right to think as you want as well as everyone who posts here. But my gut feeling says she did this to spite her mother.
She was tired of being a mom but to selfish to give Caylee a good life.
She enjoyed the wilder side of life and Caylee got in her way.
Caylee was getting to the age where she could tell grandma Cindy what was really going on.



I agree.......
No, she would not take the heat for somebody else..No way...imo

[5boxersmom]

I am still thinking about the SW wanting the clothes that George said Caylee was wearing. Did George say this to try to prove they left the house that day, because whatever happen to Caylee happen in the house?

Remember at the beginning Cindy said they were going on a mini vacation, to bond. Yet George says that day was just like any other and Casey said we will see you later tonight or tomorrow if I have to work late.

Of course you never heard much about the mini vacation after the first week or two.

jmo

[Jeepers]

Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading and have not posted since George was admitted to the hospital. Just a few comments I would like to make.
I do hope that George gets some rest and has time to think some things through with help from the hospital staff.
Maybe he will talk again to LE without Cindy and Lee knowing. Maybe this will be his out. I know that he wrote in his letter that he was supporting Casey but he also told LE/FBI more truth than lies when he was being interviewed. So, I am still holding out hope that he will do the right thing.
I do like Florida's sunshine law whether it is too much information for the public I really don't know. I do know that without the document releases I would never believe what is going on behind the scenes.
I do think LE has enough evidense to link Casey to Caylee from her actual death all the way to the dump site. I felt like that had enough before they found Caylee and Baez would have been smart not to have delayed the trial when he was given the opportunity in the beginning.
Baez does not have Casey's best interest. If I were Cindy & George instead of trying to cover for her they should be seeking effective council for her. JMOs.

[AbbyNormal]

I brought this over from the other thread because I see that some posters are still complaining about folks that have not yet made up their minds. I posted this over on the other thread so this is "posted by January".....

I can see how some may be still undecided and just terrified to post that on these boards. The majority rules here, I guess. I have an extremely logical mind and I can see someone waiting for a piece of evidence that would link Casey directly to the killing of this child. Technically, none of the evidence that has been released to this point does that. This doesn't even go to innocent until proven guilty, it's beyond. Reason being that I am sure they have enough evidence to link her to disposing the body but nothing concrete in the way of her hand ending this child's life. And with all the insane things that Casey has said and done up to this point, how can we rule out 100% that she did not leave this child with someone (we are not even allowed to discuss the reasons why here, but think back) who accidently overdosed her or smothered her and just dumped her back onto Casey knowing full well that she would never be able to tell the truth, especially if she was involved and/or involving this child in something unspeakable.

So I would not attack or ridicule someone just because they are still toying with other theories that may hold water because they, like myself, are saddled with an overly logical mind.Hi January,

Nice post. I think most people have to have a thick skin or develop one fast to be posting on a crime message board, lol.

I am still undecided. I waiver back and forth between thinking it is Casey or Cindy. (I do believe Casey moved Caylee, like you stated).
I think Cindy is just as cold and just as capable of murdering Caylee and leaving Casey to find the body at the house.

Now, Casey is in jail -- not Cindy. So, I tend to think there is more evidence than what the public is privy to that points directly to Casey. I still can't make up my mind though! Logical or not, I still waiver in my opinions.

[cloe23]

If you did not murder someone, would you plead guilty to it? And that is yet another reason why some are still on the fence about this. Because I know that if I were being accused of something I did not do, I would NEVER accept a plea. I would go down fighting.

I was assuming that the plea was on the accidental side of things.
If she didn't do it she would of told us a long time ago who did.

[cloe23]

OK where are those tapes of Cindy pleading to Casey that she has to have Caylee and will die without her? (Paraphrasing)

[SavannahStar]

The FBI report said intentionally placed. I seriously doubt that she would intentionally place a heart sticker on the BACK of her head. Sometime you just have to use logic. jmo :wink:

I disagree. She could have "intentionally" placed the sticker anywhere at all on that duct tape, Guitarded. I don't get where "intentionally" means over the lips. :confused: "Intentionally" simply means put it on somewhere on the duct tape (as opposed to just somehow landing on there, by virtue of maybe having stickers with her that day), it doesn't indicate WHERE it was placed. IMO.

[Kathlb]

respectful *snip*

The majority rules here, I guess. I have an extremely logical mind and I can see someone waiting for a piece of evidence that would link Casey directly to the killing of this child. Technically, none of the evidence that has been released to this point does that. *snip*

I would never ridicule anyone for their beliefs of any kind. However, in my mind, I just can't see any way that Casey could put that duct tape on her without getting her fingerprints on it. She could have worn gloves, but when the state said they were looking for fingerprints on the tape in the last hearing that she was forced to come to against her will, I saw a flicker of shock in her eyes for one second when the state said that. We may not hear that until trial.

[AbbyNormal]

Casey is such a gonner. Her behaviors after Caylee was out of the picture were fueled by the worst case of selfishness I have ever seen, read or heard of just sick, I try not to be that judgemental but how could she even eat? Let alone shake around a stripper pole, play drinking games and smoke more dupe then usual is just plain evil.:cursing: I almost feel sorry for her defence(until there is another presser and he pizzes me off again.)
My opinion of course.I think Casey's behavior could be explained as her being freed from Cindy's control.

[cassidy]

Hi January,

Nice post. I think most people have to have a thick skin or develop one fast to be posting on a crime message board, lol.

I am still undecided. I waiver back and forth between thinking it is Casey or Cindy. (I do believe Casey moved Caylee, like you stated).
I think Cindy is just as cold and just as capable of murdering Caylee and leaving Casey to find the body at the house.

Now, Casey is in jail -- not Cindy. So, I tend to think there is more evidence than what the public is privy to that points directly to Casey. I still can't make up my mind though! Logical or not, I still waiver in my opinions.

I just can't see Casey staying in jail for anyone, including ( and especially!) her mother. I think she'd toss her under the bus in a heartbeat.

JMO

[Pat]

Not looking for a reaction........... But as every good trial attorney knows you have to tell a story to the jury and weave the evidence into the story. This is especially true with circumstantial evidence cases. You have to show the evidence points to this and only this defendant. So for those who believe this is a premeditated murder case......What is the story?

I believe it is possibly a premeditated murder case, for reasons much like Susan Smith. Casey had a boyfriend who wasn't interested in anything but male children and Caylee had become a hindrance. It is possible she had been planning to remove Caylee, the barrier, but like Susan Smith, she did it in an impulsive moment, rather than meticulously planning days in advance. It could be said Casey wanted a life away from her parents and with no responsibilities,

I believe it is possible the computer searches on that computer were meant for her parents.

And I could be flat, dead wrong, too :laugh:

[KatieKates]

January wrote:

"I brought this over from the other thread because I see that some posters are still complaining about folks that have not yet made up their minds. I posted this over on the other thread so this is "posted by January".....

I can see how some may be still undecided and just terrified to post that on these boards. The majority rules here, I guess. I have an extremely logical mind and I can see someone waiting for a piece of evidence that would link Casey directly to the killing of this child. Technically, none of the evidence that has been released to this point does that. This doesn't even go to innocent until proven guilty, it's beyond. Reason being that I am sure they have enough evidence to link her to disposing the body but nothing concrete in the way of her hand ending this child's life. And with all the insane things that Casey has said and done up to this point, how can we rule out 100% that she did not leave this child with someone (we are not even allowed to discuss the reasons why here, but think back) who accidently overdosed her or smothered her and just dumped her back onto Casey knowing full well that she would never be able to tell the truth, especially if she was involved and/or involving this child in something unspeakable.

So I would not attack or ridicule someone just because they are still toying with other theories that may hold water because they, like myself, are saddled with an overly logical mind."

Ah, yes, and I'm reminded that at one time the majority thought the world was flat. That usually helps me get through the ridicule. :biggrin:

[BJames]

I wonder if Casey will request to see her father after learning of his 'break down'? Thus far she has tried to make it look (at least to George) that it is him she would rather 'reach out to', especially since she decided to have her 1:1 (which never took place) with him and not Cindy nor Lee. Of course she was bailed out shortly after telling him that...will she put her own hide on the line (being recorded) and request to see her father?
I wonder....

Just my opinion of course....

[cloe23]

I am still thinking about the SW wanting the clothes that George said Caylee was wearing. Did George say this to try to prove they left the house that day, because whatever happen to Caylee happen in the house?

Remember at the beginning Cindy said they were going on a mini vacation, to bond. Yet George says that day was just like any other and Casey said we will see you later tonight or tomorrow if I have to work late.
Of course you never heard much about the mini vacation after the first week or two.

jmo

Excellent point.

[kitty1182]

I wonder if Casey will request to see her father after learning of his 'break down'? Thus far she has tried to make it look (at least to George) that it is him she would rather 'reach out to', especially since she decided to have her 1:1 (which never took place) with him and not Cindy nor Lee. Of course she was bailed out shortly after telling him that...will she put her own hide on the line (being recorded) and request to see her father?
I wonder....

Just my opinion of course....



I don't think she will..I don't think she could care less..imo

[AbbyNormal]

I agree.......
No, she would not take the heat for somebody else..No way...imoI think she might......for Cindy. I think that whole family is afraid of Cindy. No one in that house breathes without Cindy's permission. jmo

[KatieKates]

I wonder if Casey will request to see her father after learning of his 'break down'? Thus far she has tried to make it look (at least to George) that it is him she would rather 'reach out to', especially since she decided to have her 1:1 (which never took place) with him and not Cindy nor Lee. Of course she was bailed out shortly after telling him that...will she put her own hide on the line (being recorded) and request to see her father?
I wonder....

Just my opinion of course....

No way. I can't see her caring at all. The girl will lie and continue to lie until she runs out of hallway. And George would probably ring her neck at this point...jmo.

[Elle]

I think Casey's behavior could be explained as her being freed from Cindy's control.

I don't think Cindy is the one who had the control in that relationship.

jmo

[Pat]

If you did not murder someone, would you plead guilty to it? And that is yet another reason why some are still on the fence about this. Because I know that if I were being accused of something I did not do, I would NEVER accept a plea. I would go down fighting.

On the other hand, most guilty people say they are innocent and maintain it to their dying breath. OJ Simpson, Sam Sheppard, Michael Peterson, Scott Peterson...the list goes on. Can't make a judgment based soley on the fact a person didn't plead guilty.
IMO

[cloe23]

There was never a plea offered.

IIRC there was a plea, I can't remember the name of it tho.
A 'something' plea. LOL

[gaelicpeas]

I am still thinking about the SW wanting the clothes that George said Caylee was wearing. Did George say this to try to prove they left the house that day, because whatever happen to Caylee happen in the house?

Remember at the beginning Cindy said they were going on a mini vacation, to bond. Yet George says that day was just like any other and Casey said we will see you later tonight or tomorrow if I have to work late.

Of course you never heard much about the mini vacation after the first week or two.

jmoThe fact that it was stated in the latest doc dump that they wanted the items that George said Caylee was wearing and Casey was carrying MAY be what led to George's "suicide scare". JMO

[Dells]

If you did not murder someone, would you plead guilty to it? And that is yet another reason why some are still on the fence about this. Because I know that if I were being accused of something I did not do, I would NEVER accept a plea. I would go down fighting.

No, I would not plead guilty to something that I did not do. If I were in Casey's shoes, I would tell the truth. If in fact someone did have Caylee and she died in their care and then they gave her back to Casey to deal with, that is the story that I would tell LE. I would not come up w/a fake nanny story that had a ton of holes in it.

[Myka]

OK where are those tapes of Cindy pleading to Casey that she has to have Caylee and will die without her? (Paraphrasing)


we talk about the case all the time at work. A friend told me what if Geo and Cindy went to see Casey in the summer, for a visit in jail. Let's say around the end of July or so..what if Geo and Cindy told Casey, "Guess what Casey? We found Caylee and she is alive, can you believe it?"...... and totally led her on, lied to her like Casey has lied to them. I would have loved to see Casey's face, of course we all know Geo and Cindy don't have the balls or the brains to do something like that

[kitty1182]

No, I would not plead guilty to something that I did not do. If I were in Casey's shoes, I would tell the truth. If in fact someone did have Caylee and she died in their care and then they gave her back to Casey to deal with, that is the story that I would tell LE. I would not come up w/a fake nanny story that had a ton of holes in it.

Amen............

[Myka]

On the other hand, most guilty people say they are innocent and maintain it to their dying breath. OJ Simpson, Sam Sheppard, Michael Peterson, Scott Peterson...the list goes on. Can't make a judgment based soley on the fact a person didn't plead guilty.
IMO

lol, you forgot Drew Peterson....
** note to self** stay away from men w/ the last name Peterson

[ellegna]

She also stated it in her FBI interview. http://www.wftv.com/video/18050069/index.html

She also described Casey as Compassionate, caring & outgoing. :ohmy:

This brought to mind a fatal shooting we had here a couple of months ago. A guy came back to a bar he was tossed from and starting shooting randomly killing a woman and injuring several others. The guy fled the scene. He turned himself in later and confessed. He had prior criminal history. His mother gets in front of the cameras and proceeds to say what a wonderful, kind person he is. He's never been in trouble. He's innocent. He didn't do this. yada yada
One of the shooting victims happened to be his brother who ID'd him as the shooter but the mother still carried on he was innocent.

I came to the conclusion if Casey were to confess today, Cindy, IMO, would continue to profess Casey's innocence. Cindy will state Casey confessed under duress and accuse everyone obtaining a confession using pressure tactics.

[Dells]

Good afternoon everyone, I have been reading and have not posted since George was admitted to the hospital. Just a few comments I would like to make.
I do hope that George gets some rest and has time to think some things through with help from the hospital staff.
Maybe he will talk again to LE without Cindy and Lee knowing. Maybe this will be his out. I know that he wrote in his letter that he was supporting Casey but he also told LE/FBI more truth than lies when he was being interviewed. So, I am still holding out hope that he will do the right thing.
I do like Florida's sunshine law whether it is too much information for the public I really don't know. I do know that without the document releases I would never believe what is going on behind the scenes.
I do think LE has enough evidense to link Casey to Caylee from her actual death all the way to the dump site. I felt like that had enough before they found Caylee and Baez would have been smart not to have delayed the trial when he was given the opportunity in the beginning.
Baez does not have Casey's best interest. If I were Cindy & George instead of trying to cover for her they should be seeking effective council for her. JMOs.

Bolding is mine...

Great point, and ITA! I truly think that it the best thing that they can do for her right now. Covering up for her is just making them look bad and it is making Casey look even more guilty.

[katfish]

I disagree. She could have "intentionally" placed the sticker anywhere at all on that duct tape, Guitarded. I don't get where "intentionally" means over the lips. :confused: "Intentionally" simply means put it on somewhere on the duct tape (as opposed to just somehow landing on there, by virtue of maybe having stickers with her that day), it doesn't indicate WHERE it was placed. IMO.

OK this is my last comment on the heart sticker....regardless of where it was placed...the question is why? Of course everything we say on the subject is just theory, so here is another one:

Pat Brown, criminal profiler was asked on headline news why someone would put the sticker on the tape... Her theory was that a psychopath does things to diminish(in their minds) the severity of their actions. The example she used was Son of Sam, when he was killing a woman and she was screaming he told her to shut up it wasn't like he was raping her ....he was just going to kill her...therefore Casey knew that putting the tape on Caylee's mouth was to shut her up or possibly smother her, but isn't that a cute heart sticker I gave you Caylee.

[Lapis]

I agree Lapis, right now there is no idea of what the prosecution was going it say, I'm wondering how much the the finding of Caylee changed their original plan?

This is the sticking point for me. Most of the evidence points to her disposal of the body after whatever happened happened. There does not appear to be any history of child abuse. Everybody interviewed so far says she was a good mother (at least not an abusive one). The grandparents bathed the child, changed her diapers, swam with her and never saw any bruises. The one bruise that was found was explained by IIRC one of the boyfriends. I fear the remains will not be able to determine the cause of death and that may cause a problem for the jury. JMO

[Myka]

What makes you so 100% sure (not being defensive and trying not to be offense but...) is it possible that she involved herself in a drug cartel as a drug runner using Caylee as the patsy? And then something went drastically wrong and Caylee ended up being killed somehow or in the wrong hands, dumped back onto Casey and she ends up doing a huge coverup? After what happened to that little boy in California who was kidnapped by that drug cartel over something that his estranged grandfather did to them, do you honestly think Casey would risk other members of her family by talking?

Here is another scenario, which leaves the door open for another killer and Casey the body dumper. She is at a party or some kind of a function where criminal activities are going on (again we are not allowed to talk here so use your imagination). She gets totally wasted and wakes up with a dead Caylee. Somehow she got into the wrong hands. Now she honestly doesn't know who killed Caylee but she covers up. How does a person "talk" if they don't know? I am still wondering where she went all those days she was supposedly working at Universal or wherever. Where did she go with that little girl. What was she doing? Who was she exposing Caylee to?

These are questions that a logical mind will ask. There you have it.

forgive me, but don't you mean all those YEARS she was supposedly work at Universal?

[cloe23]

I think Casey's behavior could be explained as her being freed from Cindy's control.

True but the only upper hand that Cindy had on Casey was Caylee.

[Kathlb]

*respectful snip*

Here is another scenario, which leaves the door open for another killer and Casey the body dumper. She is at a party or some kind of a function where criminal activities are going on (again we are not allowed to talk here so use your imagination). She gets totally wasted and wakes up with a dead Caylee. Somehow she got into the wrong hands. Now she honestly doesn't know who killed Caylee but she covers up. How does a person "talk" if they don't know? I am still wondering where she went all those days she was supposedly working at Universal or wherever. Where did she go with that little girl. What was she doing? Who was she exposing Caylee to?

These are questions that a logical mind will ask. There you have it.

I don't think either one of those will fly for various reasons. First and foremost, her friends said they never saw Caylee much, most of them only saw her at her 2nd. birthday party and the Anthony's. Some occasionally but not at parties and such. I think she went back home after everyone was gone and got on the computer and phone. Otherwise, she took Caylee to the mall or driving around. She seemed to go through a ton of gas. Of course the Anthony's thought it was because she was driving to work every day. MOO

[Jeepers]

I agree Lapis, right now there is no idea of what the prosecution was going it say, I'm wondering how much the the finding of Caylee changed their original plan?

Hey MrLucky, that will be interesting story. For awhile prosecution had the DP on the table and Baez had a death qualifying attorney on board for awhile, then the state took away the death penalty and I believe the attorney's name was Lemmone I 'm sure of the of the spelling but he resigned when he was no longer needed.
Without being able to prove cause of death except just being listed as homicide the prosecution was believed to have a hard time proving how she died and to qualify for the DP to get an actual conviction.
I do think it was premeditated. It does not take hours to plan just seconds for premeditated. I think it was a spur of the moment rage killing can I prove it NO! jmo.

[AbbyNormal]

I just can't see Casey staying in jail for anyone, including ( and especially!) her mother. I think she'd toss her under the bus in a heartbeat.

JMOI do not understand the love/hate dance in this mother/daughter relationship. But I think it is possible that Casey moved Caylee, to spite Cindy. (Cindy still does not have final control over Caylee's body.....yet).

[Dells]

IIRC there was a plea, I can't remember the name of it tho.
A 'something' plea. LOL

Wasn't some form of limited immunity first offered to Casey, not a plea, but limited immunity? Perhaps if she led them to the body?

[need2no]

I brought this over from the other thread because I see that some posters are still complaining about folks that have not yet made up their minds. I posted this over on the other thread so this is "posted by January".....

I can see how some may be still undecided and just terrified to post that on these boards. The majority rules here, I guess. I have an extremely logical mind and I can see someone waiting for a piece of evidence that would link Casey directly to the killing of this child. Technically, none of the evidence that has been released to this point does that. This doesn't even go to innocent until proven guilty, it's beyond. Reason being that I am sure they have enough evidence to link her to disposing the body but nothing concrete in the way of her hand ending this child's life. And with all the insane things that Casey has said and done up to this point, how can we rule out 100% that she did not leave this child with someone (we are not even allowed to discuss the reasons why here, but think back) who accidently overdosed her or smothered her and just dumped her back onto Casey knowing full well that she would never be able to tell the truth, especially if she was involved and/or involving this child in something unspeakable.

So I would not attack or ridicule someone just because they are still toying with other theories that may hold water because they, like myself, are saddled with an overly logical mind.


If what you are suggesting occurred, (and I have an open mind), wouldn't casey be guilty of child endangerment, accessory after the fact, abuse of a corpse, lying to LE, and some other things I can't think of right now. At any rate this info would not put her in a better light, or legal position. My guess is casey would never ever want Cindy and George to know about this, and therefore she will keep her mouth shut. This info wouldn't bode well with her fellow inmates either. Frankly I think (if this were true), it would be much more horrific than what many already believe happened, and the jury would be even more horrified and disgusted with casey.

If casey made Caylee available to do "unspeakable things", I would think this would be discovered by the prosecution prior to trial...maybe it already has been.

[*MoonRider*]

Not looking for a reaction........... But as every good trial attorney knows you have to tell a story to the jury and weave the evidence into the story. This is especially true with circumstantial evidence cases. You have to show the evidence points to this and only this defendant. So for those who believe this is a premeditated murder case......What is the story?

I'll answer that when the fingerprint evidence comes back. But with what we know now: Casey was the last person seen with Caylee, she didn't report her missing to LE EVER (Cindy did) , she never reported her missing to her real friends (only invisible ones), no one has ever seen or spoken with the ivisinanny, stealing from her best friend and family, videos of her in Blockbuster, Target and Bank of America, smell in car (TonE picked her up at Amscot), she references the smell in text messages,cadaver dogs hit in trunk, computer searches, air in car, hair in car, photos of her partying in her time of desperation, all of this without a body. I'm sure there is more that I forgot. Body found now and once we get the forensics back from that scene it will be a cake walk for the prosecution IMO Who else had a motive? I know a motive is not necessary but in this case lack of motive that somebody else did it is key. Baez should have pleaded her out before the body was found, but it's too late now. He was too busy meeting "his girl" with the media binder to properly advise his client. Let's not forget that he's the first hispanic lawyer to have such a high profile case, and that means a lot to him. This is one of the best circumstantial cases I have ever seen and we haven't even tipped the iceberg yet. IMO

[Cury-us Coyote]

One has already been done after the first charges were filed and has been sealed by the court. IIRC

Case Number: 08-CF-0010925-O
7/22/2008 A COURT ORDERS PSCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION BY DR. DANZIGER & DR. BERNS
7/22/2008 A STATE WITNESS SWORN AND TESTIFIED 1)YUIR MELICH 2)JASON FORGEY
7/23/2008 A CORRECTED COURT MINUTES FILED NUNC PRO TUNC 7/22/08 AS TO MISC ORDERS
7/24/2008 A ORDER APPOINTING EXPERTS FOR COMPETENCY EVALUATION
7/25/2008 A APPLICATION FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM FILED
7/25/2008 A ORDER FOR SUBPOENA DUECES TECUM (GRANTED)
7/25/2008 A STATE'S RESPONSE TO DEFT'S APPLICATION FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM DATED JULY 24, 2008
7/28/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED (COPY) FROM DR. ALAN S. BERNS TO ATTY JOSE BAEZ, DATED 7/27/08 RE: REQUEST FOR RECORDS OF CLIENT

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/

[Lapis]

I believe it is possibly a premeditated murder case, for reasons much like Susan Smith. Casey had a boyfriend who wasn't interested in anything but male children and Caylee had become a hindrance. It is possible she had been planning to remove Caylee, the barrier, but like Susan Smith, she did it in an impulsive moment, rather than meticulously planning days in advance. It could be said Casey wanted a life away from her parents and with no responsibilities,

I believe it is possible the computer searches on that computer were meant for her parents.

And I could be flat, dead wrong, too :laugh:

I understand your analogy. Where I have a little difficulty with it here is that this is a child who spent her entire life with her grandparents. They already didn't approve of her so why not just really find a job and leave. Move in with Amy or any of her other friends. Susan Smith actually mothered her children and provided for them. It would have been a shock to everyone in her life to just leave them with someone else and face their disapproval. JMO

[cassidy]

What makes you so 100% sure (not being defensive and trying not to be offense but...) is it possible that she involved herself in a drug cartel as a drug runner using Caylee as the patsy? And then something went drastically wrong and Caylee ended up being killed somehow or in the wrong hands, dumped back onto Casey and she ends up doing a huge coverup? After what happened to that little boy in California who was kidnapped by that drug cartel over something that his estranged grandfather did to them, do you honestly think Casey would risk other members of her family by talking?

Here is another scenario, which leaves the door open for another killer and Casey the body dumper. She is at a party or some kind of a function where criminal activities are going on (again we are not allowed to talk here so use your imagination). She gets totally wasted and wakes up with a dead Caylee. Somehow she got into the wrong hands. Now she honestly doesn't know who killed Caylee but she covers up. How does a person "talk" if they don't know? I am still wondering where she went all those days she was supposedly working at Universal or wherever. Where did she go with that little girl. What was she doing? Who was she exposing Caylee to?

These are questions that a logical mind will ask. There you have it.


In either scenario. She turns states evidence, goes into the witness protection plan and they go after the REAL killers.
IMO Casey wants to put her dancin' shoes back on. She isn't taking the fall for anyone.

JMO

[sunstar]

I was assuming that the plea was on the accidental side of things.
If she didn't do it she would of told us a long time ago who did.
She did ~ ZFG! :D And that's the story she seems to be sticking to and after all it's not her fault LE can't find the nanny! I don't think she'll ever confess to anything even if there is a mountain of evidence against her. MOO

[cloe23]

What makes you so 100% sure (not being defensive and trying not to be offense but...) is it possible that she involved herself in a drug cartel as a drug runner using Caylee as the patsy? And then something went drastically wrong and Caylee ended up being killed somehow or in the wrong hands, dumped back onto Casey and she ends up doing a huge coverup? After what happened to that little boy in California who was kidnapped by that drug cartel over something that his estranged grandfather did to them, do you honestly think Casey would risk other members of her family by talking?

Here is another scenario, which leaves the door open for another killer and Casey the body dumper. She is at a party or some kind of a function where criminal activities are going on (again we are not allowed to talk here so use your imagination). She gets totally wasted and wakes up with a dead Caylee. Somehow she got into the wrong hands. Now she honestly doesn't know who killed Caylee but she covers up. How does a person "talk" if they don't know? I am still wondering where she went all those days she was supposedly working at Universal or wherever. Where did she go with that little girl. What was she doing? Who was she exposing Caylee to?

These are questions that a logical mind will ask. There you have it.

Logically if Casey was a drug mule then why was she stealing money?
And her drug addictive behaviors would of been very apparent to her family. Casey used OP drugs='other peoples' drugs. IMO to run drugs you use them as well, like supporting your own habit.
BTW: I will never take you as offencive.:smile:
ETA: I will say I did entertain the child porn thing until I realized all the money she was stealing.

[Myka]

I'll answer that when the fingerprint evidence comes back. But with what we know now: Casey was the last person seen with Caylee, she didn't report her missing to LE EVER (Cindy did) , she never reported her missing to her real friends (only invisible ones), no one has ever seen or spoken with the ivisinanny, stealing from her best friend and family, videos of her in Blockbuster, Target and Bank of America, smell in car (TonE picked her up at Amscot), she references the smell in text messages,cadaver dogs hit in trunk, computer searches, air in car, hair in car, photos of her partying in her time of desperation, all of this without a body. I'm sure there is more that I forgot. Body found now and once we get the forensics back from that scene it will be a cake walk for the prosecution IMO Who else had a motive? I know a motive is not necessary but in this case lack of motive that somebody else did it is key. Baez should have pleaded her out before the body was found, but it's too late now. He was too busy meeting "his girl" with the media binder to properly advise his client. Let's not forget that he's the first hispanic lawyer to have such a high profile case, and that means a lot to him. This is one of the best circumstantial cases I have ever seen and we haven't even tipped the iceberg yet. IMO

wow!! nice post and ITA

[Pruddennce]

There was never a plea offered.

Baez wont comment on the limited immunity. he does not deny it nor admit it. "he knows what they said, (state's attorney) he is not going to comment on it".

'so there is a deadline', and he says 'right'. but then wont comment.


http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=7318299&version=1&locale=EN-US

best regards,
Pru

[cassidy]

Wasn't some form of limited immunity first offered to Casey, not a plea, but limited immunity? Perhaps if she led them to the body?

IIRC there was a deal on the table and it was never responded to by Baez. I don't recall that we knew the details of that deal.

JMO

[Pretty Leaf]

I would never ridicule anyone for their beliefs of any kind. However, in my mind, I just can't see any way that Casey could put that duct tape on her without getting her fingerprints on it. She could have worn gloves, but when the state said they were looking for fingerprints on the tape in the last hearing that she was forced to come to against her will, I saw a flicker of shock in her eyes for one second when the state said that. We may not hear that until trial.


bolding for reference

Anyone in the A house could have their fingerprints on the piece of ductape if they handled it before it was used to bind Caylee. Usually when I use tape I handle the peice on the other side of where I cut it just to hold it in place. So is Cindy, Lee or George handled it last then their fingerprints may still be on the duct tape.

[Elle]

It was limited immunity, big difference, it was offered before she was arrested the second time.

And requested by Baez, who denied denied denied asking for it. Shortly thereafter the email surfaced showing otherwise.

[Kathlb]

bolding for reference

Anyone in the A house could have their fingerprints on the piece of ductape if they handled it before it was used to bind Caylee. Usually when I use tape I handle the peice on the other side of where I cut it just to hold it in place. So is Cindy, Lee or George handled it last then their fingerprints may still be on the duct tape.


That's very true. They could be, but I would imagine that Casey's are all over it and on the sticky side mostly whereas GA and CA's probably wouldn't be. Just guessing here but remembering messing with it and feeling like WC Fields at the golf course with it sticking to me everywhere but where I wanted it to. :-) I also think it was Amy's tape and probably in the car and GA and CA didn't handle it.

[cassidy]

And that keeps her extended family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc) safe how?????

Got me. Just a suggestion. No further "out there" than yours.

IMO

[sunstar]

I would never ridicule anyone for their beliefs of any kind. However, in my mind, I just can't see any way that Casey could put that duct tape on her without getting her fingerprints on it. She could have worn gloves, but when the state said they were looking for fingerprints on the tape in the last hearing that she was forced to come to against her will, I saw a flicker of shock in her eyes for one second when the state said that. We may not hear that until trial.

I think it's very possible that she thought all evidence would be washed away with the flooding. Maybe she didn't realize duct tape could retain fingerprints? MOO

[Jeepers]

I understand your analogy. Where I have a little difficulty with it here is that this is a child who spent her entire life with her grandparents. They already didn't approve of her so why not just really find a job and leave. Move in with Amy or any of her other friends. Susan Smith actually mothered her children and provided for them. It would have been a shock to everyone in her life to just leave them with someone else and face their disapproval. JMO

Lapis, Casey told Amy they were going to be roommates after her parents gave her their house. Which was a lie, but Amy had already forwarded her mail to the Anthony's address thinking what Casey was telling her was true.
Casey was missing that shame gene. She did not mind hanging out with Amy until she had to go to work.
Casey would leave the house with Caylee and when everyone was gone to work Casey would come back home and hang out until all of her friends got off work.
Casey had not intentions of working, getting her high school GED, going to college nothing. Don't understand that. She could have done well for herself if she had put out a little effort.
But Casey said she wanted to move out several times to her friends well she has... I wonder how she likes her new "room" as she calls it.

[Pruddennce]

And requested by Baez, who denied denied denied asking for it. Shortly thereafter the email surfaced showing otherwise.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-immunity2908aug29,0,1944517.story

direct quotes by the State's Attorneys office spokesperson, Randy Means.

its not known if her 'conditions' were met for such an offer and they declined it, or if the conditions reached a point of discussion, or they flat out refused to entertain that offer. regardless, the end result is: no agreement occurred.

best regards,
Pru

[Elle]

In either scenario. She turns states evidence, goes into the witness protection plan and they go after the REAL killers.
IMO Casey wants to put her dancin' shoes back on. She isn't taking the fall for anyone.

JMO

I wonder how that tip line is going for Baez.

[*MoonRider*]

IIRC there was a deal on the table and it was never responded to by Baez. I don't recall that we knew the details of that deal.

JMO

IF Baez was a competent lawyer with more than 3 years experience he would have been begging for a plea deal. moo

[AbbyNormal]

True but the only upper hand that Cindy had on Casey was Caylee.I wonder if Caylee died during the fight between Casey and Cindy. (Either by violence that erupted during the fight, or perhaps neglect - not aware of what Caylee was doing during the fight).

[hamebone]

IF Baez was a competent lawyer with more than 3 years experience he would have been begging for a plea deal. moo



He should of claimed accident and she freaked out.

Too late now.

Its going all the way and she will never walk the earth a free woman again....all IMO of course.

[Lapis]

I'll answer that when the fingerprint evidence comes back. But with what we know now: Casey was the last person seen with Caylee, she didn't report her missing to LE EVER (Cindy did) , she never reported her missing to her real friends (only invisible ones), no one has ever seen or spoken with the ivisinanny, stealing from her best friend and family, videos of her in Blockbuster, Target and Bank of America, smell in car (TonE picked her up at Amscot), she references the smell in text messages,cadaver dogs hit in trunk, computer searches, air in car, hair in car, photos of her partying in her time of desperation, all of this without a body. I'm sure there is more that I forgot. Body found now and once we get the forensics back from that scene it will be a cake walk for the prosecution IMO Who else had a motive? I know a motive is not necessary but in this case lack of motive that somebody else did it is key. Baez should have pleaded her out before the body was found, but it's too late now. He was too busy meeting "his girl" with the media binder to properly advise his client. Let's not forget that he's the first hispanic lawyer to have such a high profile case, and that means a lot to him. This is one of the best circumstantial cases I have ever seen and we haven't even tipped the iceberg yet. IMO

I think most of us understand what you are saying. I think the question becomes why, even with all of this, does it point to a deliberate act rather than an accident that was then covered up? She lived her life like Scarlett O'Hara, "I'll think about that tomorrow". The problem is a this point we do not have a COD. I fear the forensics may not be helpful. This may be the sticking point with the jury. Her behavior afterward is reprehensible agreed. However, does this say deliberate murder? As for pleading out.....if I understand correctly, JB received the evidence as we did. You can't get a client to accept a plea unless you can show them all they face. I don't agree with a lot he has done and do believe he is in way over his head.....but I can't find fault with that. He may after the recent doc dump be working behind the scenes.JMO

[SavannahStar]

OK this is my last comment on the heart sticker....regardless of where it was placed...the question is why? Of course everything we say on the subject is just theory, so here is another one:

Pat Brown, criminal profiler was asked on headline news why someone would put the sticker on the tape... Her theory was that a psychopath does things to diminish(in their minds) the severity of their actions. The example she used was Son of Sam, when he was killing a woman and she was screaming he told her to shut up it wasn't like he was raping her ....he was just going to kill her...therefore Casey knew that putting the tape on Caylee's mouth was to shut her up or possibly smother her, but isn't that a cute heart sticker I gave you Caylee.

Well as you know, if you've read any of my previous posts......I don't much buy what criminal profilers on TH shows say.....or most especially psyc people on TH shows. That being said, yeh certainly that can be an explanation. However, there can be others as well. Certainly Casey knows, and Casey ALONE knows.

[Pat]

I wonder if Caylee died during the fight between Casey and Cindy. (Either by violence that erupted during the fight, or perhaps neglect - not aware of what Caylee was doing during the fight).

I don't think Cindy (or George) had any participation in, or knowledge of, Caylee's death at the time it occurred. If they had, I believe we would have seen an entirely different scenario play out.

My opinion and I could be wrong,
.

[sunstar]

I wonder if Caylee died during the fight between Casey and Cindy. (Either by violence that erupted during the fight, or perhaps neglect - not aware of what Caylee was doing during the fight).

Do we even know for sure the fight was Sunday night? I've read the neighbor's report and he just said it was that weekend. I also think Casey may have exaggerated the choking part of it. MOO

[Lapis]

Lapis, Casey told Amy they were going to be roommates after her parents gave her their house. Which was a lie, but Amy had already forwarded her mail to the Anthony's address thinking what Casey was telling her was true.
Casey was missing that shame gene. She did not mind hanging out with Amy until she had to go to work.
Casey would leave the house with Caylee and when everyone was gone to work Casey would come back home and hang out until all of her friends got off work.
Casey had not intentions of working, getting her high school GED, going to college nothing. Don't understand that. She could have done well for herself if she had put out a little effort.
But Casey said she wanted to move out several times to her friends well she has... I wonder how she likes her new "room" as she calls it.

LOL Just imagine what she could have made with her life if she put as much initiative into anything but her lies.

[Dells]

I wonder how that tip line is going for Baez.

Oh, I had forgotten about that! I wonder how many tips they have gotten so far.:sneaky:

[Jeepers]

I don't think this has been addressed, but can a person wear surgical gloves and tear off and use duct tape easily? Or will the gloves peel and tear off?

I don't know about surgical gloves but I can tear duct tape easy with garden gloves on. They are think brushed cotton type. No problem with it,

[IM4Truth]

I had MSNBC on this afternoon and it was an old re-run on the psychologist interviewing the BTK killer. I hope I can remember all I wanted to say about this. It was very interesting how he showed no emotion as he described the people he killed and how he did it. But when it got to him, not being able to go out and walk his dog now, can't kiss his wife anymore, can't go out for a burger he broke into tears. No remorse for the victims other than a slight apology to their families in the court room. All I could think of was Casey and her tears for herself. So far removed from what she has done.

OMG just heard of shootings in a prison near Orlando! Prison, not jail. Sorry, didn't mean to get o/t.

I will do another post on some other thoughts on Casey.

[AlohaRainbow]

I think she might......for Cindy. I think that whole family is afraid of Cindy. No one in that house breathes without Cindy's permission. jmo
interesting.
i don't see it that way - i see everyone being more "afraid" of casey... tip-toeing around her, not confronting her directly, "pacifying" her by calling her "sweetheart" and "gorgeous", etc.

i really don't see casey taking any kind of fall or rap for cindy (or anyone else, for that matter)

[sunstar]

I don't think this has been addressed, but can a person wear surgical gloves and tear off and use duct tape easily? Or will the gloves peel and tear off?

I haven't tried it, but I'd think the gloves would get stuck to the tape. She could've used leather gloves though. :) MOO

[Daffodil]

Hi January,

Nice post. I think most people have to have a thick skin or develop one fast to be posting on a crime message board, lol.

I am still undecided. I waiver back and forth between thinking it is Casey or Cindy. (I do believe Casey moved Caylee, like you stated).
I think Cindy is just as cold and just as capable of murdering Caylee and leaving Casey to find the body at the house.

Now, Casey is in jail -- not Cindy. So, I tend to think there is more evidence than what the public is privy to that points directly to Casey. I still can't make up my mind though! Logical or not, I still waiver in my opinions.

And if you really think about it, Cindy is the last person she was seen with.

[cloe23]

She did ~ ZFG! :D And that's the story she seems to be sticking to and after all it's not her fault LE can't find the nanny! I don't think she'll ever confess to anything even if there is a mountain of evidence against her. MOO

It is so hard to sort out her truths and lies. Hopefully the defence will use your post as opening and closing arguments and not call any witness.:thumbsup: J/K
Didn't LE have a sketch artist draw up the nanny that worked for free or was paid by Jeff IIRC her co-worker at universal?
What a waist of time and tax payers money.
In all reality this is why people need the right to a fair defence, this I continue to remind myself. In all fairness Casey clearly needs a change of venue.

[Grins]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

[AlohaRainbow]

No way. I can't see her caring at all. The girl will lie and continue to lie until she runs out of hallway. And George would probably ring her neck at this point...jmo.
what a great way to put it!

[Jeepers]

Oh, I had forgotten about that! I wonder how many tips they have gotten so far.:sneaky:

Did he ever publish the phone number 1-800-gonowhere?

[*MoonRider*]

I think most of us understand what you are saying. I think the question becomes why, even with all of this, does it point to a deliberate act rather than an accident that was then covered up? She lived her life like Scarlett O'Hara, "I'll think about that tomorrow". The problem is a this point we do not have a COD. I fear the forensics may not be helpful. This may be the sticking point with the jury. Her behavior afterward is reprehensible agreed. However, does this say deliberate murder? As for pleading out.....if I understand correctly, JB received the evidence as we did. You can't get a client to accept a plea unless you can show them all they face. I don't agree with a lot he has done and do believe he is in way over his head.....but I can't find fault with that. He may after the recent doc dump be working behind the scenes.JMO
I understand your point but there was no COD in Scott Peterson either and many cases have been successfully tried without a body. Tape over the mouth will horrify the jurors whether it was placed there before or after death. IF it were an accident I'm sure she'd be singing like a canary to save herself. As far as Baez goes, he is working behind the scenes with his law students. :biggrin: http://www.wftv.com/goinggreen/18551642/detail.html IMO

[cloe23]

I haven't tried it, but I'd think the gloves would get stuck to the tape. She could've used leather gloves though. :) MOO

I have had thoughts that there was gloves found with the evidence. I was just scarred to bring it up. When I use duct tape I usually use my teeth to rip it, maybe the perp did too? IMO even if the perp did use gloves it wasn't all the time but as protection to not have to touch the maggots.(sorry so graphic)

[floridamom]

I don't think this has been addressed, but can a person wear surgical gloves and tear off and use duct tape easily? Or will the gloves peel and tear off?

Trust me ...it would pull the finger tips off the rubber gloves. Masking tape will do that easily and duct tape is stickier. She could have worn cloth gloves though...that would do the trick!

[bonnie31430]

if cindy was the ruler why not have george write a suicide note about how he killed caylee then really kill himself then casey and cindy could kill one another

[KatieKates]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

And, dare I say, motive. They can say she wanted to party, we know she wanted to party, but what 22 year old doesn't? She did have George and Cindy to babysit even if they were sick and tired of doing it. From a defense standpoint, that is.

[Lapis]

I understand your point but there was no COD in Scott Peterson either and many cases have been successfully tried without a body. Tape over the mouth will horrify the jurors whether it was placed there before or after death. IF it were an accident I'm sure she'd be singing like a canary to save herself. As far as Baez goes, he is working behind the scenes with his law students. :biggrin: http://www.wftv.com/goinggreen/18551642/detail.html IMO

Point taken. I'm not sure she would sing. As I posted earlier, per LP she lives her life 15 minutes at a time ala Scarlett O'Hara..... I'll think about that tomorrow. Please don't be too hard on the law students.....they need to get their education where they can and quite frankly the facts of this case does offer a great learning experience. JMO

[kitty1182]

Oh, I had forgotten about that! I wonder how many tips they have gotten so far.:sneaky:

I sure would love to hear them...:biggrin:

[Pat]

LOL Just imagine what she could have made with her life if she put as much initiative into anything but her lies.


This is one of the areas where her immaturity is so apparent.

Reminds me of when my kids were younger (and my GD at times now), and I'd be so exasperated with them. For awhile my constant theme was they put more effort into trying to get out of something than it would have taken to just do it in the first place. But that behavior stopped into their middle/later teens. Not that they didn't procrastinate and such...they did, but not to the extent they did, or they they went about it, when they were younger.

Casey must have been such a "high maintenance" child/teenager. I don't know how Cindy and George lived with all that drama for so long.

[Balesha]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

Those are some good questions, but I don't think the jury is gonna care when they hear the rest of the evidence. I'd like to know the answer to those questions, but I certainly don't need to know in order to think that Casey is guilty.

[*MoonRider*]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

Yikes, don't give Jose any help lol.
Rarely, if ever is there an eyewitness to murder
Won't need eyewitness on tape if the odious creatures fingerprints are there and/or they can match the duct tape to the Anthony home
COD already addressed
Place of death I don't know yet. Not sure it matters to me.
Won't need eyewitness who placed body in bag IF the bags are determined to come from the Anthony home and have her fingerprints
Body was transported in Casey's trunk (or another unfortunate cadaver was in there.

All of this is my opinion only.

[SavannahStar]

Well, I can see both sides of this coin and I can understand both sides being so adamant about whether or not they feel this is a slam dunk or a case of unprovable homicide. Either way, I just don't think it is fair for a handful of posters who are still on the fence to be getting laughed at by some other posters around here. It's just not right.

You're very right, January! :thumbsup:

I myself believe Casey killed Caylee but I think all sides are important to any message board. I don't think anyone's opinion should be laughed at.

[AbbyNormal]

I was just reading the other thread and they were talking about the fact that there were no shoes or socks in the remains bag. Some of our posters were saying it strongly indicated to them that Caylee was killed in the house. Perhaps, and if that is true that would explain the no socks and shoes. There are others who feel that the entire 911 call was a fake, a ruse- part of this entire cover-up. If they were arguing and somehow Caylee got knocked down, hit her head or something like that, the coronor would have found some trauma to the skull. She said there was no trauma to the bones. I am also bothered by the fact that no underwear or diaper was found with the remains. Caylee was wearing shorts but no diaper/underwear/pullup??? That doesn't seem right.There's a lot that we just don't know. I have always thought Caylee died on that Father's day. I think the June 9th day that was falsely reported as the last day seen by the whole fam damily indicates they all followed Cindy's lead. Casey, even though she stated June 9th, also indicated 31 days. She wanted LE to know it had been 31 days. Cindy is the one that did not want LE to discover anything bad may have occurred June 15th.

[cloe23]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

What and do their homework?:biggrin:

[*MoonRider*]

Point taken. I'm not sure she would sing. As I posted earlier, per LP she lives her life 15 minutes at a time ala Scarlett O'Hara..... I'll think about that tomorrow. Please don't be too hard on the law students.....they need to get their education where they can and quite frankly the facts of this case does offer a great learning experience. JMO

I'm not being hard on law students, but I do think Casey deserves a much more experienced team to advise her because she will quite possibly be spending the rest of her life in prison. jmo

[joolz]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

Weren't all those things missing in the Laci Peterson case?

[Pruddennce]

I think most of us understand what you are saying. I think the question becomes why, even with all of this, does it point to a deliberate act rather than an accident that was then covered up?

respectfully snipped...

this is where the Anthonys 'immunity deal' fits into this puzzle....IMO

IMO they are withholding important information that directly links to premeditated murder....whether it was an excited utterance in the midst of an argument threatening bodily harm to Caylee.....or very strong words that could be construed as a threat that they shrugged off as an 'outburst'.....she could have VERY forcibly grabbed her or dragged her out....while threatening to do something to her.....

IMO, there is something they wish to 'excuse' themselves for, which is what they are withholding from LE. a direct threat, they did not intervene on caylee's behalf *because they thought it was just a rage that would blow over*

Casey made excuses why her mother couldnt talk to Caylee. Cindy wanted to believe those reasons, day after day after day. all the while recalling the threats and refused to 'go there in her mind'.

Cindy refused to GO HOME FROM WORK after picking up the car that smelled like death. she was, IMO, refusing to acknowledge in her mind that Casey made good on her threat. she wasnt ready to face it. and was unable to face that fact until Caylee was discovered.

IMO, the exit from the home is key, which would infer premed in this case. and it concerns the Anthonys. not being responsible for Caylee's demise, but that information (if my opinion is correct), would have brought forth an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT interview to be conducted by LE with Casey...IF the Anthonys would have advised that she was full of rage when she left.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[IM4Truth]

More thoughts on Casey. Many people question if she didn't want Caylee why didn't she just leave her with Cindy. My answer is that she wanted to be spiteful and hurt Cindy in the worst way possible.

Casey could have easily left Caylee behind and if Cindy kicked her out and told her to get a job, Casey could have been relieved of the burden of Caylee in that way. She could go boo-hooing to her friends about how controlling her mother was, took her child, & kicked her out and I would bet some of her friends would have let her move in with them. That would only last for so long until they realized she had no job and no money. She would have come up with some lie about losing her job and perhaps be forced into working again. She might even do that since she didn't have to worry about a baby-sitter anymore. She could still party on the weekends.

No, I don't think this was an accident. I think it was in the back of her mind for several months going back to at least March. She got caught stealing one too many times and when it was from her elderly grandparents, Cindy lost it and pushed Casey over the edge. Casey grabbed Caylee and ran. The next night she is all lovey-dovey with her boyfriend at Blockbuster. And it went on from there.

How did she do it? Where did she do it? Does that have to be proven if her fingerprints are on the tape? Even if they find other family members prints on the tape, experts should be able to tell how the tape was handled, and where the prints begin and end from where it was cut or torn. I watched a really good show on Court TV one time about a case with duct tape. IIRC some of it was even found in water.

Oh well, back to work. Just thinking about all of this as I was watching the old interview of the BTK. How he killed people and then just went on with his daily life, Boy Scouts, Church life, etc.

[Lapis]

This is one of the areas where her immaturity is so apparent.

Reminds me of when my kids were younger (and my GD at times now), and I'd be so exasperated with them. For awhile my constant theme was they put more effort into trying to get out of something than it would have taken to just do it in the first place. But that behavior stopped into their middle/later teens. Not that they didn't procrastinate and such...they did, but not to the extent they did, or they they went about it, when they were younger.

Casey must have been such a "high maintenance" child/teenager. I don't know how Cindy and George lived with all that drama for so long.

You sound like my mother. I also see it in my nieces and nephews. I guess its all part of growing up. This is where many parents I think miss the boat, there are no expectations. I have to believe it gets exhausting for the parents.

[HumblePie]

You're very right, January! :thumbsup:

I myself believe Casey killed Caylee but I think all sides are important to any message board. I don't think anyone's opinion should be laughed at.

I agree. Casey is a pathetic excuse for a human being, but that said, she is a human being and deserves a fair trial. :sad:

[Jeepers]

Point taken. I'm not sure she would sing. As I posted earlier, per LP she lives her life 15 minutes at a time ala Scarlett O'Hara..... I'll think about that tomorrow. Please don't be too hard on the law students.....they need to get their education where they can and quite frankly the facts of this case does offer a great learning experience. JMO

On serious note those young law students are getting a bargain in their education with the ability to look at this case. What a study!
I bet this case will give them some very important lessons that no one could just lecture on.

[cloe23]

I was just reading the other thread and they were talking about the fact that there were no shoes or socks in the remains bag. Some of our posters were saying it strongly indicated to them that Caylee was killed in the house. Perhaps, and if that is true that would explain the no socks and shoes. There are others who feel that the entire 911 call was a fake, a ruse- part of this entire cover-up. If they were arguing and somehow Caylee got knocked down, hit her head or something like that, the coronor would have found some trauma to the skull. She said there was no trauma to the bones. I am also bothered by the fact that no underwear or diaper was found with the remains. Caylee was wearing shorts but no diaper/underwear/pullup??? That doesn't seem right.

Remember Casey telling Lenny P. that 'they haven't even found her clothes yet?' Those clothes very well may be her jammies.

[Grins]

Those are some good questions, but I don't think the jury is gonna care when they hear the rest of the evidence. I'd like to know the answer to those questions, but I certainly don't need to know in order to think that Casey is guilty.But you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt every element of the crime. Which crime are you charging? You have to describe what defendant did and when and how and with what.

[SavannahStar]

Do we even know for sure the fight was Sunday night? I've read the neighbor's report and he just said it was that weekend. I also think Casey may have exaggerated the choking part of it. MOO

You are correct. No one, to my knowledge, has said it was on Sunday night.....except Rick (Cindy's bother) who alllegedly heard about it from their mother. That's a little too much heresay for me.

[KatieKates]

I also felt that she had died after seeing the grandfather in the nursing home. And not too long after they returned home from there. Reason being if it were late at night or in the wee hours of the next morning, she would have been dressed in her pj's not shorts similar to the ones that she was wearing at the nursing home. No pullups, that is what is bothering me. And now a new question cames to my mind. "Cindy seems to be the only one that did not want LE to discover something bad may have happened on fathers day." Why??????

I thought early reports had her in a bathing suit. Was that wrong?

[gaelicpeas]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.All I know is that Scott Peterson was convicted and is sitting on death row without any of the above (except possibly "who transported body to dump site" - Scott went to the bay, although no one was an eyewitness to him dumping Laci's body there). So a conviction CAN happen without any of those things. JMO

[*MoonRider*]

More thoughts on Casey. Many people question if she didn't want Caylee why didn't she just leave her with Cindy. My answer is that she wanted to be spiteful and hurt Cindy in the worst way possible.

Casey could have easily left Caylee behind and if Cindy kicked her out and told her to get a job, Casey could have been relieved of the burden of Caylee in that way. She could go boo-hooing to her friends about how controlling her mother was, took her child, & kicked her out and I would bet some of her friends would have let her move in with them. That would only last for so long until they realized she had no job and no money. She would have come up with some lie about losing her job and perhaps be forced into working again. She might even do that since she didn't have to worry about a baby-sitter anymore. She could still party on the weekends.

No, I don't think this was an accident. I think it was in the back of her mind for several months going back to at least March. She got caught stealing one too many times and when it was from her elderly grandparents, Cindy lost it and pushed Casey over the edge. Casey grabbed Caylee and ran. The next night she is all lovey-dovey with her boyfriend at Blockbuster. And it went on from there.

How did she do it? Where did she do it? Does that have to be proven if her fingerprints are on the tape? Even if they find other family members prints on the tape, experts should be able to tell how the tape was handled, and where the prints begin and end from where it was cut or torn. I watched a really good show on Court TV one time about a case with duct tape. IIRC some of it was even found in water.

Oh well, back to work. Just thinking about all of this as I was watching the old interview of the BTK. How he killed people and then just went on with his daily life, Boy Scouts, Church life, etc.

Bold is mine. How many times in a murder case has that question been asked. Why not get a divorce? Why murder? Those of us who are not sociopaths/killers can not relate. moo

[sunstar]

It is so hard to sort out her truths and lies. Hopefully the defence will use your post as opening and closing arguments and not call any witness.:thumbsup: J/K
Didn't LE have a sketch artist draw up the nanny that worked for free or was paid by Jeff IIRC her co-worker at universal?
What a waist of time and tax payers money.
In all reality this is why people need the right to a fair defence, this I continue to remind myself. In all fairness Casey clearly needs a change of venue.

Oh wouldn't that be something if that is their opening & closing? "It's up to the state to prove that Casey committed this crime and up to them to prove that ZFG doesn't exist". There we go! :biggrin: I do remember Casey was supposed to come up with a composite drawing but it never happened, just the physical description that was given for height, weight, hair color and whatnot. MOO

[AbbyNormal]

Yikes, I can't see gloves not peeling off with duct tape. It's sticky. I ripped it off myself once and it took my skin. I don't think gloves.Well, a nurse would be used to dealing with gloves and surgical tape. Would duct tape be a lot different to handle?

Whoever placed the tape would have fingerprints on both ends of the tape, I think? Whoever used the tape prior, would have prints on only one end of the tape....yes/no? If there are prints on only one end of the tape -- does that mean whoever placed the tape on Caylee wore gloves of some sort?

(LOL, I am starting to confuse myself)!

Have to leave for now. Thank you everyone for all your insights and opinions ~

[Lapis]

respectfully snipped...

this is where the Anthonys 'immunity deal' fits into this puzzle....IMO

IMO they are withholding important information that directly links to premeditated murder....whether it was an excited utterance in the midst of an argument threatening bodily harm to Caylee.....or very strong words that could be construed as a threat that they shrugged off as an 'outburst'.....she could have VERY forcibly grabbed her or dragged her out....while threatening to do something to her.....

IMO, there is something they wish to 'excuse' themselves for, which is what they are withholding from LE. a direct threat, they did not intervene on caylee's behalf *because they thought it was just a rage that would blow over*

Casey made excuses why her mother couldnt talk to Caylee. Cindy wanted to believe those reasons, day after day after day. all the while recalling the threats and refused to 'go there in her mind'.

Cindy refused to GO HOME FROM WORK after picking up the car that smelled like death. she was, IMO, refusing to acknowledge in her mind that Casey made good on her threat. she wasnt ready to face it. and was unable to face that fact until Caylee was discovered.

IMO, the exit from the home is key, which would infer premed in this case. and it concerns the Anthonys. not being responsible for Caylee's demise, but that information (if my opinion is correct), would have brought forth an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT interview to be conducted by LE with Casey...IF the Anthonys would have advised that she was full of rage when she left.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

Great analysis.

[sunstar]

You are correct. No one, to my knowledge, has said it was on Sunday night.....except Rick (Cindy's bother) who alllegedly heard about it from their mother. That's a little too much heresay for me.

And all that hearsay won't make it into the courtroom either, imo! The neighbor also said there were several fights (at different times) so it kind of seems the "fight" might not have been as important to Caylee's death as some would believe. I think it had more to do with Casey wanting to be with TL and Caylee being in her way. MOO

[IM4Truth]

She did ~ ZFG! :D And that's the story she seems to be sticking to and after all it's not her fault LE can't find the nanny! I don't think she'll ever confess to anything even if there is a mountain of evidence against her. MOO

The problem with her story is that she was never frantic about a kidnapping! None of the family ever were. The most frantic moment we heard was in Cindy's 911 call that the nanny had taken her. After that, things calmed down. George & Cindy were just out searching for a live Caylee. Why wasn't anyone searching for a kidnapper? An adult would be easier to trace than just waiting for a sighting of a child. The kidnapping story will not fly.

[gaelicpeas]

IMO, the exit from the home is key, which would infer premed in this case. and it concerns the Anthonys. not being responsible for Caylee's demise, but that information (if my opinion is correct), would have brought forth an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT interview to be conducted by LE with Casey...IF the Anthonys would have advised that she was full of rage when she left.

IMO

best regards,
Pru
(respectfully snipped) Great points, Pru, as always.

[cloe23]

OK this is my last comment on the heart sticker....regardless of where it was placed...the question is why? Of course everything we say on the subject is just theory, so here is another one:

Pat Brown, criminal profiler was asked on headline news why someone would put the sticker on the tape... Her theory was that a psychopath does things to diminish(in their minds) the severity of their actions. The example she used was Son of Sam, when he was killing a woman and she was screaming he told her to shut up it wasn't like he was raping her ....he was just going to kill her...therefore Casey knew that putting the tape on Caylee's mouth was to shut her up or possibly smother her, but isn't that a cute heart sticker I gave you Caylee.

The heart on the tape very well could of been on the roll its self.
You know like a stopping and starting point, easy to find.
Like a roll of wrapping paper.
But the fact that it was found with Caylee is gonna be hard to explain.
One would think that this information wouldn't be privy to us if it was a 'bombshell'
jmo
As for Son of Sam settling his vic's. Charles Manson did the same. IIRC the only crime he actually did hand on he told the vic's they were safe and give him the goods and they will be fine. That screams wimp to me.

[Elle]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-immunity2908aug29,0,1944517.story

direct quotes by the State's Attorneys office spokesperson, Randy Means.

its not known if her 'conditions' were met for such an offer and they declined it, or if the conditions reached a point of discussion, or they flat out refused to entertain that offer. regardless, the end result is: no agreement occurred.

best regards,
Pru


Hey Pru

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-bounty-hunter-082908,0,1364943.story?page=2
Meanwhile, e-mails released Friday morning by the State Attorney’s Office shows that Baez approached Orange County investigators on July 25 about meeting with prosecutors about a possible limited immunity.
Prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick e-mailed Baez on July 29, saying she had not heard from him about what information Anthony could provide.
As part of the deal, Anthony would have to waive - in writing - any evidence obtained as a result of her statements to investigators, Drane Burdick wrote.
On August 25, Drane Burdick sent another e-mail to Baez about the immunity they discussed on Aug. 12 and how it will expire on Thursday, Aug. 28.
“By that date, you will have had sufficient ‘private time’ with you client to determine if she wishes to participate in locating her child,” she wrote.
Since then, that deadline has been extended to Tuesday at 9 a.m.
“If you would like to attend to this matter over the Labor Day weekend, please send an e-mail to my work e-mail address and I will be able to retrieve it immediately on my Blackberry,” Drane Burdick said.

http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0829/17335521.pdf
email from Linda Drane Burdick to Baez

[Lavenia]

Weren't all those things missing in the Laci Peterson case?

Exactly. It's the case in almost all CE cases as far as I know. That's why it's CE.

ETA: I sure stand to be corrected though!

[Balesha]

I have an industrial size roll of duct tape and when you handle this duct tape, even before you rip it, finding the "start point" your fingers are all over it. So the prints would be from the "start point" in to where it starts to roll into the next layer. Hard to explain but picture a roll of tape and how you would handle it trying to find the "start point" that you pull to tear it off. Anyone that touched that roll of tape has fingerprints on it. Unless it was new in a sealed package when the murderer used it. So this might explain why they are not releasing the findings of the finger prints. Too many. Or hard to explain away all these fingerprints being on the tape because the alleged murderer lived in the house with the tape.


As dumb as Casey is, I don't see her being dumb enough to not use gloves while handling the tape.

[IM4Truth]

I was just reading the other thread and they were talking about the fact that there were no shoes or socks in the remains bag. Some of our posters were saying it strongly indicated to them that Caylee was killed in the house. Perhaps, and if that is true that would explain the no socks and shoes. There are others who feel that the entire 911 call was a fake, a ruse- part of this entire cover-up. If they were arguing and somehow Caylee got knocked down, hit her head or something like that, the coronor would have found some trauma to the skull. She said there was no trauma to the bones. I am also bothered by the fact that no underwear or diaper was found with the remains. Caylee was wearing shorts but no diaper/underwear/pullup??? That doesn't seem right.

Where did I get pull-ups with flowers on them?

[HumblePie]

I have an industrial size roll of duct tape and when you handle this duct tape, even before you rip it, finding the "start point" your fingers are all over it. So the prints would be from the "start point" in to where it starts to roll into the next layer. Hard to explain but picture a roll of tape and how you would handle it trying to find the "start point" that you pull to tear it off. Anyone that touched that roll of tape has fingerprints on it. Unless it was new in a sealed package when the murderer used it. So this might explain why they are not releasing the findings of the finger prints. Too many. Or hard to explain away all these fingerprints being on the tape because the alleged murderer lived in the house with the tape.

Great point. In addition, it's almost impossible to handle anything sticky with gloves on. If Casey wore gloves, then I'm a . . . :tonguewag:

[?noanswer]

I disagree. She could have "intentionally" placed the sticker anywhere at all on that duct tape, Guitarded. I don't get where "intentionally" means over the lips. :confused: "Intentionally" simply means put it on somewhere on the duct tape (as opposed to just somehow landing on there, by virtue of maybe having stickers with her that day), it doesn't indicate WHERE it was placed. IMO.

I have not seen any official documents that says where the sticker was placed, but LE should be able to determine where it was. The duct tape was stuck to the hair which is in the back of the head. If you take the duct tape and fold it in the middle of where the hair was, then the sticker will be in the middle, to the left or to the right. If there is no hair where the middle fold is and the sticky is there, then it was over her mouth. Any other place it was not over the mouth. JMO

[Cury-us Coyote]

respectfully snipped...

this is where the Anthonys 'immunity deal' fits into this puzzle....IMO

IMO they are withholding important information that directly links to premeditated murder....whether it was an excited utterance in the midst of an argument threatening bodily harm to Caylee.....or very strong words that could be construed as a threat that they shrugged off as an 'outburst'.....she could have VERY forcibly grabbed her or dragged her out....while threatening to do something to her.....

IMO, there is something they wish to 'excuse' themselves for, which is what they are withholding from LE. a direct threat, they did not intervene on caylee's behalf *because they thought it was just a rage that would blow over*

Casey made excuses why her mother couldnt talk to Caylee. Cindy wanted to believe those reasons, day after day after day. all the while recalling the threats and refused to 'go there in her mind'.

Cindy refused to GO HOME FROM WORK after picking up the car that smelled like death. she was, IMO, refusing to acknowledge in her mind that Casey made good on her threat. she wasnt ready to face it. and was unable to face that fact until Caylee was discovered.

IMO, the exit from the home is key, which would infer premed in this case. and it concerns the Anthonys. not being responsible for Caylee's demise, but that information (if my opinion is correct), would have brought forth an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT interview to be conducted by LE with Casey...IF the Anthonys would have advised that she was full of rage when she left.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

We have yet to see 6/15 & 6/16 text msgs between TonE and CA or see TonE's statements describing that evening, IMO.

[sunstar]

Apparently so because the news reports that I have seen say white shorts with stripes. I even checked that last video with Caylee in her pop pop's lap and that's what it looks like she is wearing. If there is a document from the doc dump I haven't seen it yet.

Do you think it's possible she could've been redressed after she was killed, like after removing a soiled diaper? I'm just trying to figure it out. :sad: MOO

[need2no]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

I bet Joe Tacopina wasn't too worried about mere circumstantial evidence against Melanie McQuire.... until she was convicted.


Circumstantial evidence is used in courts to establish guilt or innocence through reasoning.

Circumstantial evidence is unrelated facts, that when considered together, can be used to infer a conclusion about something unknown. Information and testimony presented by a party in a civil or criminal action that permit conclusions that indirectly establish the existence or nonexistence of a fact or event that the party seeks to prove.

The popular notion that one cannot be convicted on circumstantial evidence is false. Most criminal convictions are based, at least partially, on circumstantial evidence that sufficiently links criminal and crime.

In fact, the US Supreme Court has stated in Holland vs United States that “circumstantial evidence is intrinsically no different from testimonial (direct) evidence.” Thus, the distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence, has little practical effect in the presentation or admissibility of evidence in trials.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6182300/Circumstantial-Evidence

[IM4Truth]

Did anyone ever find out if the clothes that were found in the bag were the ones she had worn to see papa? I used duct tape this week and i had a heck of a time with it curling up on me:sad:

I don't think the clothes were the same. I've never been able to bite duct tape to get it to tear either. I've always had to use scissors.

[sunstar]

The problem with her story is that she was never frantic about a kidnapping! None of the family ever were. The most frantic moment we heard was in Cindy's 911 call that the nanny had taken her. After that, things calmed down. George & Cindy were just out searching for a live Caylee. Why wasn't anyone searching for a kidnapper? An adult would be easier to trace than just waiting for a sighting of a child. The kidnapping story will not fly.

I agree it won't fly unless there's a young male juror who thinks Casey is the most beautiful thing he's seen and ignores common sense. :rolleyes: You have a good point though about the search for a "live Caylee" ~ it never included the "nanny" as being with Caylee. So it would seem everybody knew Caylee was dead and these searches were just for show. MOO

[Balesha]

Take the diaper off and put the shorts back on? Why?

The smell? Maybe she thought it was contributint to the stink in the car.

[?noanswer]

I wonder if Casey will request to see her father after learning of his 'break down'? Thus far she has tried to make it look (at least to George) that it is him she would rather 'reach out to', especially since she decided to have her 1:1 (which never took place) with him and not Cindy nor Lee. Of course she was bailed out shortly after telling him that...will she put her own hide on the line (being recorded) and request to see her father?
I wonder....

Just my opinion of course....

I think that ship has sailed. At that time she had not been charged with Murder. As the Detectives told her early on, if she didn't come clean a big ole snow ball was gonna hit her. Even if she had a tinsy weesy desire to see G, JB would not allow it.


JMO

[need2no]

We have yet to see 6/15 & 6/16 text msgs between TonE and CA or see TonE's statements describing that evening, IMO.

No, and I would love to see those!

What about a statement from Mark Hawkins, did I miss that?

[IM4Truth]

Weren't all those things missing in the Laci Peterson case?

Good point! I think they were missing!

[sunstar]

Take the diaper off and put the shorts back on? Why?

Maybe not the same shorts she had on with the diaper though. I'm just thinking of how some bodies will expel everything at death and Casey took the dirty diaper off. Or the other possibility could be she was drowned in the bathtub? Nothing else really makes sense to me why she wouldn't have a diaper on. MOO

[Balesha]

Good point! I think they were missing!

Yes they were missing. And there's a tonne more evidence in this case than in the SP one.

[Pruddennce]

I also felt that she had died after seeing the grandfather in the nursing home. And not too long after they returned home from there. Reason being if it were late at night or in the wee hours of the next morning, she would have been dressed in her pj's not shorts similar to the ones that she was wearing at the nursing home. No pullups, that is what is bothering me. And now a new question cames to my mind. "Cindy seems to be the only one that did not want LE to discover something bad may have happened on fathers day." Why??????

you have an excellent point January, no pullups. no diaper. but other clothing found with the remains....

which leads me to believe that caylee might have just finished being bathed by Cindy, casey returned, an argument ensued, she was freaking, threw clothes on her, no pullup and left raging.

I must reiterate: George A gave the exact description of her clothing as Casey did....it is logical to believe that George got that description from what Casey said for the missing person's (rather kidnapping report).

in my mind, George lied about seeing them 'leaving like any other day', because there was no other description of the the entire morning. Cindy 'didnt see them but 'heard' them sleeping'.....George also said when he returned home from work "he was 'almost positive' her car was in the driveway that nite" ....but he didnt see them nor did he mention 'knowing' they were in the house. he says 'he was led to believe' they were in the home that nite.

wierd statements.

almost positive?

yet in the next breath says they are leaving the home at 10 to 1pm in the afternoon the next day.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[sunstar]

No, and I would love to see those!

What about a statement from Mark Hawkins, did I miss that?

I don't think we have that either. He's on the witness list for trial though as I recall. MOO

[HumblePie]

Take the diaper off and put the shorts back on? Why?

None of it makes any sense. However, going back to ancient times, people bathe the deceased and make sure they are entombed in a cleanly manner. It's a basic instinct. But then again, so is keeping your child alive and healthy. Go figure. :cursing:

[IM4Truth]

You are not making this any easier for us fence sitters. The comparison between Casey and the BTK Killer is striking. Scott Peterson was the same. Something for us to further think about.

Actually stepping away from the board for awhile while I was working was good. I just had the TV on and that came on. I was thinking about similarities through most of it. Now someone remembers that all the evidence that another poster mentioned is missing, was also missing in the Laci Peterson case. More to think about.

[AlohaRainbow]

But you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt every element of the crime. Which crime are you charging? You have to describe what defendant did and when and how and with what.
i would venture to guess that one possible scenario prosecutors could use (based on the computer choloroform searches and the reported chloroform & decomp gas results from the trunk) is that casey used chloroform to kill caylee. that would show evidence of pre-meditation, explain lack of trauma to the bones, and, since it would tie in with the trunk, give a mode of transport to dump the remains.

re the scott peterson case, there are/were those who did not think that all of the elements you listed were proven, and yet he got the death penalty...

http://www.relentlessdefense.com/peterson.case.html
...It appears from Distasto’s opening that the prosecution possesses no evidence whatsoever that Scott murdered Laci or that she even died within the home. Given the forensic techniques available to the investigators combing the Peterson home for evidence of a shooting, stabbing or violent struggle (or attempts to conceal such evidence), it is difficult to believe that Peterson murdered his wife within the home. The thoroughness of the investigation almost exonerates Peterson...

[need2no]

I don't think we have that either. He's on the witness list for trial though as I recall. MOO

Thanks...

Yep, I'm looking forward to hearing from Mark, just wasn't sure if I'd overlooked a statement from him.

[Pruddennce]

We have yet to see 6/15 & 6/16 text msgs between TonE and CA or see TonE's statements describing that evening, IMO.

right. and we have not seen the familys' entire cell phone records and text messages.

best regards,
Pru

[IM4Truth]

Remember Casey telling Lenny P. that 'they haven't even found her clothes yet?' Those clothes very well may be her jammies.

Casey could have planted clothing elsewhere to totally throw LE off her trail. Perhaps a bush in a yard somewhere? :wink:

[kitty1182]

Casey could have planted clothing elsewhere to totally throw LE off her trail. Perhaps a bush in a yard somewhere? :wink:

:biggrin:...................

[Elle]

It seems to have gone the way of that photo that was said to depict Casey, Caylee and Phanny at some park.

If I were Baez, I would be wayyy worried about my credibility.

Yes, the photo they were on their way to get 'right now'

I have a feeling that if you were Baez, things would look alot different right now:wink:

[Lavenia]

Maybe not the same shorts she had on with the diaper though. I'm just thinking of how some bodies will expel everything at death and Casey took the dirty diaper off. Or the other possibility could be she was drowned in the bathtub? Nothing else really makes sense to me why she wouldn't have a diaper on. MOO

Oh, her dirtying the diaper at home (at the time of death) makes a LOT of sense! It could be hard to transport her if her panties were full. Good thinking!

[Lavenia]

:biggrin:...................

Ruh Roh! :scared:

[IM4Truth]

I thought early reports had her in a bathing suit. Was that wrong?

I think Lenny said that. This is another reason why I think she was killed on the 16th. She wasn't wearing the same clothes. What she was wearing was maybe a change of clothes that was already in the back pack. So where is what she was wearing when Casey left with her? Was it the same clothes as seen in the video? I doubt that, Cindy said they went swimming after they got home. (if you can believe Cindy, but let's say what if?) I would think jammies. So if Casey ran out with her late that night, where are the jammies?

[cloe23]

Oh wouldn't that be something if that is their opening & closing? "It's up to the state to prove that Casey committed this crime and up to them to prove that ZFG doesn't exist". There we go! :biggrin: I do remember Casey was supposed to come up with a composite drawing but it never happened, just the physical description that was given for height, weight, hair color and whatnot. MOO

TY for the education on who has to prove what, I don't know law and I am sure it is very clear on the way I post.
I'm a passion poster:biggrin:
Can you imagine taking your 2.5yr old child to daycare and leave them at the bottom of the steps to walk up and in alone, diaper bag in haul?

[need2no]

you have an excellent point January, no pullups. no diaper. but other clothing found with the remains....

which leads me to believe that caylee might have just finished being bathed by Cindy, casey returned, an argument ensued, she was freaking, threw clothes on her, no pullup and left raging.

I must reiterate: George A gave the exact description of her clothing as Casey did....it is logical to believe that George got that description from what Casey said for the missing person's (rather kidnapping report).

in my mind, George lied about seeing them 'leaving like any other day', because there was no other description of the the entire morning. Cindy 'didnt see them but 'heard' them sleeping'.....George also said when he returned home from work "he was 'almost positive' her car was in the driveway that nite" ....but he didnt see them nor did he mention 'knowing' they were in the house. he says 'he was led to believe' they were in the home that nite.

wierd statements.

almost positive?

yet in the next breath says they are leaving the home at 10 to 1pm in the afternoon the next day.

IMO

best regards,
Pru


Maybe she had no diapers, or pullups other than the one she was wearing. This is awful but....maybe she soiled the one she was wearing when the 'deed' happened, so casey removed it and didn't think about not having a replacement. :scared:

Remember George's comment to LE when he was talking about casey and money. He said she would come home and say she forgot to stop by the ATM and needed diapers so he would hand her some money. I found this statement soooooo odd....ok, so go get in your car and go to the ATM and withdraw money for diapers, or go to the store and purchase diapers with your debit card. Just another of George's weird, nonsensical comments out of the blue.

[joolz]

Actually stepping away from the board for awhile while I was working was good. I just had the TV on and that came on. I was thinking about similarities through most of it. Now someone remembers that all the evidence that another poster mentioned is missing, was also missing in the Laci Peterson case. More to think about.

Several of us mentioned Peterson, and Lavenia pointed out how circumstantial evidence often proves to be what gets convictions. I don't see any resemblance between the Casey Anthony case and the BTK case at all, though. jmo

[IM4Truth]

Apparently so because the news reports that I have seen say white shorts with stripes. I even checked that last video with Caylee in her pop pop's lap and that's what it looks like she is wearing. If there is a document from the doc dump I haven't seen it yet.

In the video it is a blue shirt and what looks like plain white shorts. A white shirt was found with the remains and the shorts had vertical stripes.

[Pruddennce]

Hey Pru

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-bounty-hunter-082908,0,1364943.story?page=2


thanks so much Elle. I was wondering if I missed anything regarding Baez actually meeting with authorities or the SA office or just did not acknowledge their response to his offer.

best regards,
Pru

[need2no]

And don't forget Annie D. We haven't heard a thing from her yet, either.


Oh heck no...I haven't, and won't forget Annie. :biggrin:

[Regina.Lampert]

This is the sticking point for me. Most of the evidence points to her disposal of the body after whatever happened happened. There does not appear to be any history of child abuse. Everybody interviewed so far says she was a good mother (at least not an abusive one). The grandparents bathed the child, changed her diapers, swam with her and never saw any bruises. The one bruise that was found was explained by IIRC one of the boyfriends. I fear the remains will not be able to determine the cause of death and that may cause a problem for the jury. JMO


I am hoping the prosecution, thru the testimony of Annie Dowling, can establish a pattern of routinely drugging Caylee with xanax and other medications. Aggravated child abuse, imo. The last time with chloroform leading to death, hence the murder one indictment. imo.

[cloe23]

Casey could have planted clothing elsewhere to totally throw LE off her trail. Perhaps a bush in a yard somewhere? :wink:

Someone posted the other night that a cadaver dog will pick up on a dead body after just two hours. If this is indeed true then....?
Maybe they were dumped somewhere other then the A's, like a dumpster. That would explain many ppl's 'gut feeling' dumpster theory.

[Grins]

Excellent answers to the 7 missing things!! Well thought out and reasoned.
I have enjoyed this day with you all~

[neid_77]

Casey is such a gonner. Her behaviors after Caylee was out of the picture were fueled by the worst case of selfishness I have ever seen, read or heard of just sick, I try not to be that judgemental but how could she even eat? Let alone shake around a stripper pole, play drinking games and smoke more dupe then usual is just plain evil.:cursing: I almost feel sorry for her defence(until there is another presser and he pizzes me off again.)
My opinion of course.

i agree with you wholeheatedly!!! this woman IMHO is pure evil here actions her selfishness is beyond repulsive....there really isn't a one word to describe casey. she goes far beyond any logical thought of behavior. barf

[Regina.Lampert]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.

Listen Grinnie, and you can hear the faint echo of Mr. Distaso telling the jury of the puzzle and how he will fill in the pieces............

BTW, I wonder how scott peterson is doing at San Quentin?

[need2no]

Many of George's weird, nonsensical comments during his LE and FBI interviews seem to come not out of the blue, per se, but out of a desire to avoid answering the actual question that was asked. imo

Yes, just chattering away.....away from the questions he didn't want to answer, and the things he didn't want to hear.

Not to mention:
I'm just being straight with you
To be honest
Honestly
To tell you the truth
I wish I could be of more help
Thank you guys so much

blah, blah, blah.......

[kitty1182]

Listen Grinnie, and you can hear the faint echo of Mr. Distaso telling the jury of the puzzle and how he will fill in the pieces............

BTW, I wonder how scott peterson is doing at San Quentin?

Do you think he is still "zazzed"? Isn't that the word he used when he got there?lol

[IM4Truth]

Several of us mentioned Peterson, and Lavenia pointed out how circumstantial evidence often proves to be what gets convictions. I don't see any resemblance between the Casey Anthony case and the BTK case at all, though. jmo

The resemblance I was speaking of was how he showed emotion for his victims but cried for himself. I don't think you can compare the cases but there are similarities in the killer's actions, such as comitting the crime and then going right on with your life as if nothing happened.

[joolz]

I am hoping the prosecution, thru the testimony of Annie Dowling, can establish a pattern of routinely drugging Caylee with xanax and other medications. Aggravated child abuse, imo. The last time with chloroform leading to death, hence the murder one indictment. imo.

Regina, I hope Annie's testimony can estabilsh that, too! And if Casey used the name Zenaida Gonzalez when she got a ticket (unless that is a rumor that has been has been disproved) and Annie was witness to that - well, there goes Zanni the Nanny as the "real" villain!

[Regina.Lampert]

If I was prosecuting the case, I'd hit that one head-on, either in opening or closing. I think there's a way to position it with the jury such that Casey ends up looking even more evil, precisely because she's good-looking. Don't know how I'd work it in, but I definitely would attempt to address the whole business of she's too pretty to have done such a thing.

I agree Say. They could start out by saying she had a public face and a face that only Caylee and her family saw behind closed doors. An evil face.

[joolz]

The resemblance I was speaking of was how he showed emotion for his victims but cried for himself. I don't think you can compare the cases but there are similarities in the killer's actions, such as comitting the crime and then going right on with your life as if nothing happened.


Oh that I completely agree with! :smile:

[HumblePie]

I am hoping the prosecution, thru the testimony of Annie Dowling, can establish a pattern of routinely drugging Caylee with xanax and other medications. Aggravated child abuse, imo. The last time with chloroform leading to death, hence the murder one indictment. imo.

I have a problem with the chloroform. Did Casey mix up batches of a highly volatile and water soluble drug every day? I understand using Rx medication but chloroform? I don't get it! :sad:

[IM4Truth]

I just asked about the shirt on the other thread. They told me that there was no color specified on the shirt and the shorts were white with pinstripes. :confused:

I was wrong about the washer/dryer thing earlier so I could be wrong here too. Maybe I should just stop posting. My memory must be waning.

[Pruddennce]

If what the neighbors say is true and Lee and George the extreme hostility constantly in the home between Cindy & Casey. The frequent fights heard coming from the home. The very very loud bad bad fight that was heard by neighbors coming from the home the night of Father's Day, then I think the jurors will believe the bad fight that date triggered the murder.

I do. It is very significant to this murder in my opinion. TonE played in but the defendant's hatred for her outweighs any boy-craziness from the defendant. She was emotionally like a toddler, went off half cocked and killed the baby to spite her mother. Showing Cindy who had the ultimate control.

Ties to Mother is much stronger and run much deeper than a recent new sex interest. The jury will think so too. All of them.

an excellent opinion Adalena.

then we have:

co-workers of Cindy stating that it was George and Casey who had problems and that was also validated by Casey herself in her jail interview.

*she stated they were just getting back together in their father/daughter relationship*<--paraphrasing but she mentioned herself and George and their recent efforts of repairing their relationship.

both parents were a thorn in each other's side...IMO Casey, dad and mom, the relationship IMO bounced back and forth to whoever was going to give in to her....when one gave in, discord followed, then the other gave in, and back and forth, back and forth....

they all had a problem with each other.....on some level. and that level was always extreme for each person.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[Regina.Lampert]

Do you think he is still "zazzed"? Isn't that the word he used when he got there?lol

Oh yes, the little failed manure salesman, scottietohottie is still "jazzed" about all them historical buildings...... :lol:

[Regina.Lampert]

Yes, just chattering away.....away from the questions he didn't want to answer, and the things he didn't want to hear.

Not to mention:
I'm just being straight with you
To be honest
Honestly
To tell you the truth
I wish I could be of more help
Thank you guys so much

blah, blah, blah.......

Don't forget "I know that for dog gone sure!

[Lavenia]

I have a problem with the chloroform. Did Casey mix up batches of a highly volatile and water soluble drug every day? I understand using Rx medication but chloroform? I don't get it! :sad:

I have always and famously had a problem with the chloroform. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

[sunstar]

Oh, her dirtying the diaper at home (at the time of death) makes a LOT of sense! It could be hard to transport her if her panties were full. Good thinking!

That's exactly what I was thinking and the odor would be immediately obvious so she removed the soiled diaper then put shorts on her. Just MOO!

[?noanswer]

The heart on the tape very well could of been on the roll its self.
You know like a stopping and starting point, easy to find.
Like a roll of wrapping paper.
But the fact that it was found with Caylee is gonna be hard to explain.
One would think that this information wouldn't be privy to us if it was a 'bombshell'
jmo
As for Son of Sam settling his vic's. Charles Manson did the same. IIRC the only crime he actually did hand on he told the vic's they were safe and give him the goods and they will be fine. That screams wimp to me.


No matter what kind of tape our family is using, we always fold a small amount at the end when we finish using. That way it won't stick to itself and the end is easy to find. JMO

[IM4Truth]

Don't you dare!

What part of my memory must be waning don't you understand! We old fogies call it CRS. Gotta leave for awhile now though, time to start preparing for the 'morrow. I'll step back in while my doing my nails later though. Maybe by then someone will have had time to find the link as to what was found with the remains. White shirt? Pull-ups with flowers? and so on, and so on. Later.

[cloe23]

Casey could have planted clothing elsewhere to totally throw LE off her trail. Perhaps a bush in a yard somewhere? :wink:

You goof, I just picked up on your post. You must be the dig up the bush poster.

[Regina.Lampert]

Regina, I hope Annie's testimony can estabilsh that, too! And if Casey used the name Zenaida Gonzalez when she got a ticket (unless that is a rumor that has been has been disproved) and Annie was witness to that - well, there goes Zanni the Nanny as the "real" villain!

I would love it if they have proof of her using the ZFG alias.

Hum, perhaps the 16th was the first time she used the chloroform because she was estranged from Annie Dowling?

[Lapis]

I have a problem with the chloroform. Did Casey mix up batches of a highly volatile and water soluble drug every day? I understand using Rx medication but chloroform? I don't get it! :sad:

That always bothered me too. Anybody know if she took chemistry in High School?

[sunstar]

:biggrin:...................

I'm glad someone fit that bush back into the scenario for you! :)

[?noanswer]

Where did I get pull-ups with flowers on them?


I remember something about diapers/pullups. I don't know if they were found in the bag, at the body found location, in the car, or at the house. JMO

[Jeepers]

I agree Say. They could start out by saying she had a public face and a face that only Caylee and her family saw behind closed doors. An evil face.

Regina, if prosecution is allowed to play that last video of Casey's temper tantrum along with the others of her nochallant attitude with Cindy crying the jury will get to see that evil face and her coldness toward her mother's tears.
I posted earlier if it were not for the sunshine law I would never believe this young girl was that evil. Thirty one days got my attention to follow this sad case and if I had not been keeping up with it everyday no one would convince me of all this girl and her family has done.

[Pruddennce]

The resemblance I was speaking of was how he showed emotion for his victims but cried for himself. I don't think you can compare the cases but there are similarities in the killer's actions, such as comitting the crime and then going right on with your life as if nothing happened.

yes, Casey exhibited plenty of the 'tears for me' when her parents talked about HER. starting with the bond hearing.

all of the jailhouse visits are the same....when her parents are talking about her, she cries. when she is looking at a t-shirt that represents her daughter's supposed plight, she is ho-hum, that's nice.

everyone is nice, everyone is great when talking about the plight of Caylee....bring up Casey and the alleged lovefest for her, and she cries.

yes, similar.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[Pat]

I bet Joe Tacopina wasn't too worried about mere circumstantial evidence against Melanie McQuire.... until she was convicted.

-snip-

]

There were a lot of folks who thought she'd walk. Joe T was one of them, and he had more to work with than Baez does, IMO.

MMcGuire was considered to be attractive, she had patients who will never believe she was capable of cold-blooded murder, much less cutting him up and dumping him in the Chesapeake and she had two children who would be without parents if she were to be found guilty. And, she was accused of killing her husband, not her child.

As I said, Joe T had more to work with and he still lost that case, and MMcGuire was sentenced to LWOP.

[sunstar]

No matter what kind of tape our family is using, we always fold a small amount at the end when we finish using. That way it won't stick to itself and the end is easy to find. JMO

Same here and sometimes put a rubber band around the end also. Especially with packaging tape which is worse to find the end than duct tape. :)

[ConchGirl]

Maybe she had no diapers, or pullups other than the one she was wearing. This is awful but....maybe she soiled the one she was wearing when the 'deed' happened, so casey removed it and didn't think about not having a replacement. :scared:

Remember George's comment to LE when he was talking about casey and money. He said she would come home and say she forgot to stop by the ATM and needed diapers so he would hand her some money. I found this statement soooooo odd....ok, so go get in your car and go to the ATM and withdraw money for diapers, or go to the store and purchase diapers with your debit card. Just another of George's weird, nonsensical comments out of the blue.

IIRC there were pull ups found in the Pontiac.

[need2no]

Regina, I hope Annie's testimony can estabilsh that, too! And if Casey used the name Zenaida Gonzalez when she got a ticket (unless that is a rumor that has been has been disproved) and Annie was witness to that - well, there goes Zanni the Nanny as the "real" villain!

If there is anything to that rumor, I'm sure LE is on top of it:

GEORGE ANTHONY: As I looked around the car, first I thing I looked around was to make sure all the tires were on. And I took a quick glance inside before I even opened it up, see if there was anything there I could see. I could see my granddaughter`s carseat in the back, in the passenger side rear. I could see my daughter`s purse, clothes. And it was in disarray.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Purse, you mean like her regular purse?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Her regular purse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was her driver`s license and stuff in it, do you recall?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So wherever she was, she was without any ID, to your knowledge.

GEORGE ANTHONY: There was no -- yes, she didn`t have this kind of stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that had to be at least from the 30th because that`s when they originally towed it.

GEORGE ANTHONY: That`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:And this was the 15th. So for two weeks, she`d been out and about with no ID, no nothing.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as you knew.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/21/ng.01.html

[need2no]

IIRC there were pull ups found in the Pontiac.

I think you are correct...maybe casey in a rush or panicking just forgot, or didn't bother or care.

[HumblePie]

That always bothered me too. Anybody know if she took chemistry in High School?

Casey is smart. I'll give her that much. Making making chloroform? I highly doubt it. I believe it's a lab error. Just like formaldehyde is given off from carpet fibers. Look, Casey is guilty as sin, but making chloroform seems over-the-top. She's more the meth-lab type. :scared:

[gaelicpeas]

I agree Say. They could start out by saying she had a public face and a face that only Caylee and her family saw behind closed doors. An evil face.Yes, and easy to show with pictures. Show a good pic of Casey (maybe the one of her in the blue blouse and media binder heading into Jose's office) ... then show one of those pics when she was having a tantrum during the G&C jailhouse visit that was recently released.

[Regina.Lampert]

Regina, if prosecution is allowed to play that last video of Casey's temper tantrum along with the others of her nochallant attitude with Cindy crying the jury will get to see that evil face and her coldness toward her mother's tears.
I posted earlier if it were not for the sunshine law I would never believe this young girl was that evil. Thirty one days got my attention to follow this sad case and if I had not been keeping up with it everyday no one would convince me of all this girl and her family has done.

I agree Jeep, that one and the very first telephone call from the jail, with the famous "Oh well, calling you guys a waste, huge waste.......gimme Tony's number now." will be all any jury needs to know about miss anthony.

[SavannahStar]

I have not seen any official documents that says where the sticker was placed, but LE should be able to determine where it was. The duct tape was stuck to the hair which is in the back of the head. If you take the duct tape and fold it in the middle of where the hair was, then the sticker will be in the middle, to the left or to the right. If there is no hair where the middle fold is and the sticky is there, then it was over her mouth. Any other place it was not over the mouth. JMO


It was never said the sticker was over her mouth. It was said the duct tape was over her mouth.

Of course LE knows where the sticker was. We do not, from what was released.

[ConchGirl]

That always bothered me too. Anybody know if she took chemistry in High School?

I think when she was dating Ricardo she saw the chloroform picture on his myspace and thought it was a great idea. The over the counter meds were not working as well as she hoped. moo

[?noanswer]

Yes they were missing. And there's a tonne more evidence in this case than in the SP one.


One of the bigger pieces of evidence in this case is that the body can be traced to KC's vehicle. I don't think they were ever able to determine how SP transported Laci. JMO

[gaelicpeas]

I have a problem with the chloroform. Did Casey mix up batches of a highly volatile and water soluble drug every day? I understand using Rx medication but chloroform? I don't get it! :sad:I tend to agree (although there were unusually high levels of chloroform detected in the trunk). But, to me, for that argument to fly, there would have been a cloth under the duct tape, and AFAIK, one was not found. JMO

[daHawg]

Where did I get pull-ups with flowers on them?
That was from the Evidence Tech and a meeting that he had with det on Dec 16th he brought out the sealed box containing the evidence from the car that they collected from Cindy on the July 16th. It is listed as H-51975.
They are the items that Cindy put in the black plastic bag with the yellow handles.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530366/detail.html
See pgs.
2 of 43
42 of 43

[SavannahStar]

I have always and famously had a problem with the chloroform. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.


Me either Lavenia.

[Regina.Lampert]

There were a lot of folks who thought she'd walk. Joe T was one of them, and he had more to work with than Baez does, IMO.

MMcGuire was considered to be attractive, she had patients who will never believe she was capable of cold-blooded murder, much less cutting him up and dumping him in the Chesapeake and she had two children who would be without parents if she were to be found guilty. And, she was accused of killing her husband, not her child.

As I said, Joe T had more to work with and he still lost that case, and MMcGuire was sentenced to LWOP.

Say what you will about MM, the woman KNEW how to clean a bathroom.

[need2no]

Don't forget "I know that for dog gone sure!



LOL...thanks, that's a good one, don't want to forget that! :biggrin:

[AlohaRainbow]

Casey could have planted clothing elsewhere to totally throw LE off her trail. Perhaps a bush in a yard somewhere? :wink:

Someone posted the other night that a cadaver dog will pick up on a dead body after just two hours. If this is indeed true then....?
Maybe they were dumped somewhere other then the A's, like a dumpster. That would explain many ppl's 'gut feeling' dumpster theory.
interesting to put both of these thoughts together... but how about if she dumped in her own backyard the clothing that caylee was wearing when she was killed?
that could explain the hits by the cadavar dogs in the anthony's backyard (picked up scent of decomp from the clothes rather than from the body)..

casey could have subsequently dressed caylee's body in different clothes (the ones that were found with her remains)???

[HumblePie]

Say what you will about MM, the woman KNEW how to clean a bathroom.

Regina, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. :smile:

[gaelicpeas]

an excellent opinion Adalena.

then we have:

co-workers of Cindy stating that it was George and Casey who had problems and that was also validated by Casey herself in her jail interview.

*she stated they were just getting back together in their father/daughter relationship*<--paraphrasing but she mentioned herself and George and their recent efforts of repairing their relationship.

both parents were a thorn in each other's side...IMO Casey, dad and mom, the relationship IMO bounced back and forth to whoever was going to give in to her....when one gave in, discord followed, then the other gave in, and back and forth, back and forth....

they all had a problem with each other.....on some level. and that level was always extreme for each person.

IMO

best regards,
Pru(bolding is mine above to address) Excellent points. In fact, either Casey or George said that July 16 was the first time she had spoken to George. (ack, I have forgotten where I saw that, so I will just say IMO)

[Lapis]

Say what you will about MM, the woman KNEW how to clean a bathroom.

Can we get her out on work release to do my house? LOL

[ConchGirl]

Yes, and easy to show with pictures. Show a good pic of Casey (maybe the one of her in the blue blouse and media binder heading into Jose's office) ... then show one of those pics when she was having a tantrum during the G&C jailhouse visit that was recently released.

Do you mean this picture? http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Binder.jpg

She looks like she doesn't have a care in the world. moo

[HumblePie]

Can we get her out on work release to do my house? LOL

No, wait, I'm first. That gal has talent. :thumbsup:

[debkay]

Take the diaper off and put the shorts back on? Why?

Maybe she thought it would help with the smell???

[n/t]

I have always and famously had a problem with the chloroform. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

If you believe this was premeditated and it was only a question of time before she murdered Caylee then it should make sense. My only problem with the chloroform is not whether or not she used it on Caylee because I whole heartedly believe that it will be proven that this was the cause of death, is how she got it. Was it purchased, home made, stolen? Hopefully, LE has evidence to prove how she had chloroform in her possession.

[Pat]

I have always and famously had a problem with the chloroform. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

Didn't Dr. Baden (?) say early on when the chloroform came up that teens/young adults were using it to get high and it was disturbing because it is dangerous? I know for a fact I didn't see him on NG or GVS...don't know where I heard him say this.

It caught my attention because I felt so out of the loop on what stupid stuff kids do to get a high nowadays. Last I had to pay attention it was aerosol cans and Pam, etc.

Anyone else catch this?

[Regina.Lampert]

Regina, that's the funniest thing I've heard all day. :smile:

LOL, I'll never forget the day the CSI guy took the stand and said how antiseptic that bathroom was. Nobody's dna AT ALL if I remember right. :biggrin:

[Regina.Lampert]

Can we get her out on work release to do my house? LOL

MM the merry maid! :tongueside:

[?noanswer]

It's funny you bring that up about her looks. Because the other day there was someone on Headline News talking about how young and pretty she was and how people are having a hard time grasping that this pretty girl could be so evil. Then yesterday I was reading something somewhere else on the internet and someone had blogged that many people are having such a difficult time seeing this pretty young girl as a cold blooded killer. He went on to say "replace her face and her body with that of a middle aged, out of shape woman and the whole thing changes". That is very true.

By the time this trial starts, she might be that old! At least she will have gained weight if she keeps eating all those snacks. I'm sure the Prosecution will address that in the closing statements. They'll say something about looks can be deceiving. No matter what you see before you, this is the body and face of a cold blooded killer. She killed her precious sweet child and dumped her in the woods to rot away and her bones to be scattered by animals. You should return a verdict of "GUILTY". JMO

[Jeepers]

I knew I read about the flower design pullups here is the article and the link is at the bottom.

Based on what investigators found with Caylee's remains in the wooded area less than a half-mile from Caylee's house, they went back there that day looking for several things to link the murder to Caylee's mother Casey. They went back for trash bags, duct tape, their packaging and any receipts associated with them, Winnie the Pooh clothing and accessories which were plentiful in Caylee's room, small clothes with iron-on lettering, towels, blankets, diapers, pull-up pants with a flower design like the ones found with Caylee's remains and all toothbrushes, hairbrushes and cell phones (read

Caylee Marie Anthony's remains were found on December 11 stuffed into a cloth laundry hamper bag and then in a black trash bag with yellow ties. A small shirt and shorts were found with the remains and also Caylee's backpack with the word "adorable" on it.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530178/detail.html#-

[Pat]

Say what you will about MM, the woman KNEW how to clean a bathroom.

She did at that. :laugh:

[CC I See]

That always bothered me too. Anybody know if she took chemistry in High School?

... I'm sorry :laugh: I find this question SO funny. Casey is not known for her ambition or IQ. Taking such a challenging course doesn't fit with her underachiever image. But I have been told that I am wrong that she is intelligent just lazy.

[gaelicpeas]

Do you mean this picture? http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/jwi777/Binder.jpg

She looks like she doesn't have a care in the world. mooYep, that's the one...

[bhardy1956]

They'll prove with forensics evidence and witnesses that no one but the defendant could have committed this crime. Her own lies will burry her. They already investigated all women by the fake nanny's name in the state of Florida. The jury won't believe she's covering to protect the real killer. LOL

chloroform killed her. duct tape on her mouth linked to the home. dirt, DNA, body dead for 2.5 days in the trunk of the car. Pros will prove no one but the defendant had access to the car.

The body was never moved far from the home. they'll prove by dirt in the trunk with the dead body that she was dead at the home, murdered there.

Neighbors will testify to the very loud fight in the home the night of the murder. defendant searched out methods of killing live human beings. told her friends what a drag it was to have a kid. that she sought to knock her out so she wouldn't be burdened with her. Family/friends will testify the defendant didn't want the baby.

forensics, testimony will prove how, where, when she died. The jury will believe the prosecution.

Defendant's brother asked her why and she replied because she's a *****. I take that as a confession at least in part. The jury will too.

There's far more evidence in this case than in most I've ever followed.

It always comes down to what jurors believe. Not one juror will believe the proven liar-defendant. Her parent's inconsistencies lean toward guilt of the defendant also.

The dirt, the plant material, the tape, the chloroform, the double-bagged evidence, the body is the eyewitness to what happened and how and when.

I vote for your post to be "Post of the day"....But, I don't know how many votes you will get, but probably all of the ones that believe casey killed her little girl, because simply, she just didn't want her.
The evidence you posted that the DA has is only the tip of the iceburg, IMO

[ConchGirl]

... I'm sorry :laugh: I find this question SO funny. Casey is not known for her ambition or IQ. Taking such a challenging course doesn't fit with her underachiever image. But I have been told that I am wrong that she is intelligent just lazy.

Jose said "my client is not a fool."

[n/t]

Seven things are missing:

=an eyewitness as to who killed C
=an eyewitness as to who put the tape on C
=cause of death
=circumstances or instruments of death
=place of death, for jurisdictional purposes
=eyewitness to who placed her body in the bags
=who transported body to dump site

You are the prosecutor.
Tell the jury how this death happened and who did what and when and where.


Murders rarely have eyewitnesses so the first two points can be taken off the list...oh and the second to last point. Why eyewitnesses, Grins? I'm surprised you're even putting that on your list.

Place of death will be proven to be the trunk of the car. Chloroform will be cause of death and Casey Anthony will be the one who transported (dumped) the body.

[gaelicpeas]

Didn't Dr. Baden (?) say early on when the chloroform came up that teens/young adults were using it to get high and it was disturbing because it is dangerous? I know for a fact I didn't see him on NG or GVS...don't know where I heard him say this.

It caught my attention because I felt so out of the loop on what stupid stuff kids do to get a high nowadays. Last I had to pay attention it was aerosol cans and Pam, etc.

Anyone else catch this?I do remember that, Pat.

[CC I See]

Jose said "my client is not a fool."
... well it takes ONE to know ONE.

[Pat]

LOL, I'll never forget the day the CSI guy took the stand and said how antiseptic that bathroom was. Nobody's dna AT ALL if I remember right. :biggrin:

You are correct...no DNA. That in itself was suspicious, IMO Who has a bathroom that clean, especially with two boys and a large size male in the house??

[Jeepers]

... I'm sorry :laugh: I find this question SO funny. Casey is not known for her ambition or IQ. Taking such a challenging course doesn't fit with her underachiever image. But I have been told that I am wrong that she is intelligent just lazy.

I don't remember where the report is but, George and Cindy thought Casey would be ready graduate from high school until the last minute per sec. reported that she made good grades I think only 1 credit shy of completing school. She did not need a lot and it seems like she could have gone to summer school to get what she needed. Your right just LAZY

[?noanswer]

Say what you will about MM, the woman KNEW how to clean a bathroom.

I think that added to her downfall. It was too Clean!!! JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Cindy said it in her FBI interview.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=340038

Cindy's FBI interview is on page 13. There's 11 DVD's but I can't remember which one she said it in. It was before DVD #5 I believe. It was fairly early on in the conversations with FBI agents.It was also said more recently than that... I know I just read it in the last couple of weeks (and I got through - barely - Cindy's FBI interview long before that!).

[daHawg]

I knew I read about the flower design pullups here is the article and the link is at the bottom.

Based on what investigators found with Caylee's remains in the wooded area less than a half-mile from Caylee's house, they went back there that day looking for several things to link the murder to Caylee's mother Casey. They went back for trash bags, duct tape, their packaging and any receipts associated with them, Winnie the Pooh clothing and accessories which were plentiful in Caylee's room, small clothes with iron-on lettering, towels, blankets, diapers, pull-up pants with a flower design like the ones found with Caylee's remains and all toothbrushes, hairbrushes and cell phones (read

Caylee Marie Anthony's remains were found on December 11 stuffed into a cloth laundry hamper bag and then in a black trash bag with yellow ties. A small shirt and shorts were found with the remains and also Caylee's backpack with the word "adorable" on it.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530178/detail.html#-

If you look at page 42 of this report the "adorable" backpack was already in evidence from July 16th. It is H-51975 and listed on page 2 as well. They took items out of it namely the "adorable backpack, the flower pullups and the stainless steel knife on Dec 16th for examination. Page 42. So it was not found with her remains unless she had more than one "adorable" back pack. IMO.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530366/detail.html

[CC I See]

Can we get her out on work release to do my house? LOL
... she would clean you out more ways than one.:ohmy:

[Cury-us Coyote]

That was from the Evidence Tech and a meeting that he had with det on Dec 16th he brought out the sealed box containing the evidence from the car that they collected from Cindy on the July 16th. It is listed as H-51975.
They are the items that Cindy put in the black plastic bag with the yellow handles.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530366/detail.html
See pgs.
2 of 43
42 of 43

IA. Since the item used to contain the evidence may also become evidence, did LE document properly? Also concerns with the gas cans with duct tape - weren't they returned to CinA or am I reading it wrong?

Regarding matching duct tape located on skull to duct tape on gas cans beyond visual appearance, according to Page 3220 (5 of 59) were the gas cans returned to CinA on 8/13 at 11AM? Chain of custody issue?
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/evidence%20reports.pdf

[jammies]

if cindy was the ruler why not have george write a suicide note about how he killed caylee then really kill himself then casey and cindy could kill one another


lol This family is seriously obsessed with death. Both parents talk of suicide, daughter is a murderer. That house must have been (and still is) hell on earth.

[Regina.Lampert]

You are correct...no DNA. That in itself was suspicious, IMO Who has a bathroom that clean, especially with two boys and a large size male in the house??

Yep, that bathroom was beyond clean it was sterile. Sometimes absence of evidence, is evidence. :smile:

[Katt2]

I guess I must be the last holdout as to it being accidental and I still think it was. I think Caylee expired on the afternoon of the 16th shortly before the numerous calls that Casey placed. I am just not sure in my mind as to how. But I think about drowning or accidental overdose if she was trying to sleep and wanted Caylee to be quiet. I think George was telling the truth and did see them leave and they returned to the house after he left. I think Casey had time to think it out after she couldn't reach anyone and decided to try to hide the whole thing rather than admit she was careless and let her child die.

[True2Blues]

Jose said "my client is not a fool."

Like he'd know.

[Regina.Lampert]

I guess I must be the last holdout as to it being accidental and I still think it was. I think Caylee expired on the afternoon of the 16th shortly before the numerous calls that Casey placed. I am just not sure in my mind as to how. But I think about drowning or accidental overdose if she was trying to sleep and wanted Caylee to be quiet. I think George was telling the truth and did see them leave and they returned to the house after he left. I think Casey had time to think it out after she couldn't reach anyone and decided to try to hide the whole thing rather than admit she was careless and let her child die.

Hi Kittkatt!! If it was truly an accident, then why the duct tape?

[Ionmhainn]

It was never said the sticker was over her mouth. It was said the duct tape was over her mouth.

Of course LE knows where the sticker was. We do not, from what was released.

FWIW, I think the real importance of the sticker is not ...where....it was placed on the duct tape, but that it was there at all. I agreed with Dr. Perper that it indicates it was placed there by someone with an emotional attachment to Caylee (that is, not a kidnapper).
IMO

[Lavenia]

I'm having to hop off the board a lot tonight. Tummy trouble, but I got this in my in-box I wanted to share before I leave again.

Casey says she will take truth serum states a jailhouse informant.
http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/casey-anthony-tells-inmate-shell-take-truth-serum-to-prove-she-didnt-kill-caylee-report/

[HumblePie]

Yep, that bathroom was beyond clean it was sterile. Sometimes absence of evidence, is evidence. :smile:

So true. The lack thereof is often what does 'em in. :tonguewag:

[cloe23]

i agree with you wholeheatedly!!! this woman IMHO is pure evil here actions her selfishness is beyond repulsive....there really isn't a one word to describe casey. she goes far beyond any logical thought of behavior. barf

yup, the entire story line of this makes me sick to my stomach.
Why anyone would want to make a book deal or a movie is down right maddening. For the information to put out there in a script, it will have to be rated 'R' other wise it will appear choppy. jmo

[n/t]

I guess I must be the last holdout as to it being accidental and I still think it was. I think Caylee expired on the afternoon of the 16th shortly before the numerous calls that Casey placed. I am just not sure in my mind as to how. But I think about drowning or accidental overdose if she was trying to sleep and wanted Caylee to be quiet. I think George was telling the truth and did see them leave and they returned to the house after he left. I think Casey had time to think it out after she couldn't reach anyone and decided to try to hide the whole thing rather than admit she was careless and let her child die.

I would believe that if I saw remorse. I see nothing from her except feeling sorry for herself. She had the opportunity to tell LE if this was an accident and she panicked. She did not. Instead she took them on a wild goose chase looking for a nanny who doesn't exist.

Premeditated. Evil.

[n/t]

I'm having to hop off the board a lot tonight. Tummy trouble, but I got this in my in-box I wanted to share before I leave again.

Casey says she will take truth serum states a jailhouse informant.
http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/casey-anthony-tells-inmate-shell-take-truth-serum-to-prove-she-didnt-kill-caylee-report/

I thought she was in isolation. BS, imo

[ConchGirl]

I don't remember where the report is but, George and Cindy thought Casey would be ready graduate from high school until the last minute per sec. reported that she made good grades I think only 1 credit shy of completing school. She did not need a lot and it seems like she could have gone to summer school to get what she needed. Your right just LAZY Let's not forget that Cindy blamed it on the guidance counselor, not Casey. moo

[Jeepers]

If you look at page 42 of this report the "adorable" backpack was already in evidence from July 16th. It is H-51975 and listed on page 2 as well. They took items out of it namely the "adorable backpack, the flower pullups and the stainless steel knife on Dec 16th for examination. Page 42. So it was not found with her remains unless she had more than one "adorable" back pack. IMO.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18530366/detail.html

I wonder why they the reporter said they were found with the remains if LE already had them.

Don't make sense.

[cloe23]

One thing that is important for me to remember is that the jury is coming in blind, as it should be.

[Regina.Lampert]

Regina's right. Lack of evidence is evidence. There's a lot of that with the fake nanny to prove she never existed.

I didn't know the bathroom was so clean. Interesting. Maybe that's where she killed her. I can tell from documents I read LE believes she murdered the baby in the home. I'm sure the jury will take note.

Add me to the list that enjoy your thoughts Adalena!

BTW, we were talking about the Melanie McGuire case and her bathroom, not casey anthony's bathroom. Sorry for the confusion.

[True2Blues]

I'm having to hop off the board a lot tonight. Tummy trouble, but I got this in my in-box I wanted to share before I leave again.

Casey says she will take truth serum states a jailhouse informant.
http://derekclontz.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/casey-anthony-tells-inmate-shell-take-truth-serum-to-prove-she-didnt-kill-caylee-report/


I suppose she thinks she can outsmart it! :laugh: I'd love to see her try.