Saturday January 24th - Part 1

[Balesha]

Here we go!

[MoonFlwr]

Thanks for the new thread! :)

Are you not in the States? It seems early for a Saturday thread started by someone in the US. (I see the last one is over a 1 000 posts, though).

Anyway :)
I have some catching up to do...I was travelling and missed the whole escapade involving George's disappearance.

[mosey?]

The Anthony's have said in the past that they are Catholic (rosary beads)
I may be mistaken, but don't Catholics believe a person can't go to heaven after committing suicide?

My deep sympathies to George and the hell on earth he must be living.

[Balesha]

I'm in Toronto Canada!

Anyone know who the Kathy is that quit Casey's team and why she quit?

[Motomom]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?

[MoonFlwr]

My deep sympathies to George and the hell on earth he must be living.

(...snipped)

Yes, I second that motion! :(

[Balesha]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?

Well, they can be called as witnesses by both the prosecution and defence. It doesn't always happen that way though b/c in many cases witnesses are NOT neutral, so one of the sides chooses to not call them and only cross-examine. For instance, I think the As might be hostile witnesses for the prosecution b/c they support Casey. At any rate, the prosecution has the goods from GA and CA on tape so it if they are hostile it will only help the prosecution b/c the A's will appear inconsistent and therefore unreliable & biased.

[mosey?]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?This (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_prosecution_witness_be_called_to_testify_by_th e_defense) should answer your question.

"Yes, they can. Typically a defense attorney will subpoena the witness, but the attorney may request that the court order the witness to remain in the court after testifying for the state. This assumes there is evidence the witness has to offer that cannot be brought out on cross examination of them for some reason. The better practice is to issue a subpoena."

[Motomom]

Thank you both for the explanation on the witness lists. I don't know that i've seen that done, or maybe I just didn't pay attention. Will be interesting to say the least.

[Babes]

I was googling and ended up on this site from a Hollywood Private Investigator : Lawrence Olmstead

http://www.hollywoodpi.info/cayleeanthony.html

He's analyzing Kronk and Casey Anthony and see if there is a relationship between them. Kronk was also arrested before for check fraud at Florida :

Link here : http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=73801&cat=14

Kronk also has a website of his own : http://www.rkronk.com/

[Lapis]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?

The lists are prepared as to who you anticipate you will call at trial. You are under no obligation to call them as witnesses. If you don't list them you may be procluded from calling them. Sometimes lawyers like to trick the opposition by naming a witness have the adversary rely on that and then not call them. So JB had to list them in the event the prosecution does not call them. Hope this is helpful.

[aubrey04]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?

Hiya,

I saw a news report earlier and this was discussed. I have to admit - I wasn't really paying that much attention to it until I heard that Yuri was on the defenses witness list.. then my ears perked.

The reporter said that the DA's office is fighting Baez's efforts to add Yuri and the Anthony's plus some other prosecution witnesses to their (the defenses) witness list.

jmo. no link. I watched it during the live broadcast.

[mosey?]

Thank you both for the explanation on the witness lists. I don't know that i've seen that done, or maybe I just didn't pay attention. Will be interesting to say the least.I think the Anthonys will be called by the prosecution to extablish a time line, and the fact that George was the last person to see Caylee alive, etc. But the defense will call them to testify to Casey's character and claims of her being a "loving mother"

"...a bit of a pickle, Dick" -Jane from Fun With Dick and Jane

[AlohaRainbow]

I'm in Toronto Canada!

Anyone know who the Kathy is that quit Casey's team and why she quit?
did kathy reichs quit?!!! did you hear/read that somewhere?

she's the forensic anthropologist that was brought on board to examine the bones. i thought it was odd the other day when they made a PR announcement about a male forensic anthropologist that just came aboard, since they had kathy reichs. maybe that's why....

[Lapis]

Hiya,

I saw a news report earlier and this was discussed. I have to admit - I wasn't really paying that much attention to it until I heard that Yuri was on the defenses witness list.. then my ears perked.

The reporter said that the DA's office is fighting Baez's efforts to add Yuri and the Anthony's plus some other prosecution witnesses to their (the defenses) witness list.

jmo. no link. I watched it during the live broadcast.

I don't know that I would trust that report. The prosecution did file a motion to strike the defense witness list because it had a statement to the effect of "and all persons named in the prosecution's list". JB filed an amended witness list removing this language. JMO

[Lapis]

Sneaky! Is it true that they cant depose the witnesses if they are on both lists?

I don't practice law in Florida and the rules vary from state to state. I understand that there are very liberal rules of discovery in Fla. I believe I heard that witnesses can be deposed by both parties prior to trial. In other states there are no provisions for depositions in criminal cases without prior court approval (for instance, if a witness is expected to be out of the country at the time of trial or is terminally ill) I hope this helps. IMO

[catdoc]

George was admitted to the hospital under the Baker Act. This allows for an adult to be involuntarily committed for a 72 hr physical and psychiatric evaluation. The patient admitted under these circumstances has no ability to refuse any tests or treatment his treating physician requests. He is basically stripped of his rights and for legal purposes treated like a child. The doctor and next of kin make all treatment decisions, including what tests are done. After 72 hours, if the pt. is deemed "not a threat to himself or others" he can make his own decision whether to continue the Dr's recommended therapy or go home and do nothing. If he is decided to be a danger to himself he can be kept indefinitely. It was reported that George was calm and cooperative but he was still admitted under these provisions so he could not change his mind and leave.

O/T Never understood how Brittney got out in 24 hours.

[Katprint]

I don't practice law in Florida and the rules vary from state to state. I understand that there are very liberal rules of discovery in Fla. I believe I heard that witnesses can be deposed by both parties prior to trial. In other states there are no provisions for depositions in criminal cases without prior court approval (for instance, if a witness is expected to be out of the country at the time of trial or is terminally ill) I hope this helps. IMO
I don't practice in Florida either, but I do recall reading about some weird rule that applies when one party lists a particular witness on its witness list, which limits the ability of the other side to contact the witness directly to conduct informal discovery e.g. recorded witness statements. Kind of a mutated cross between attorney work product and the old "vouching" rule. So, the parties are not permitted to merely regurgitate the other side's witness list but instead must list the witnesses they truly, in good faith, expect to call. Of course, the downside of this is the risk of revealing the attorneys' trial strategies.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Lapis]

Don't prosecutors have to turn over witnesses who they interview and find to be pro-defense? I remember reading that some where...

That's a different question. The prosecution must turn over all evidence to the defense regardless of whether they intend to call the witness or present the evidence. It's referred to as Brady evidence. Failure to turn over the exculpatory evidence is grounds for reversal under US law. I believe all states have now adopted that provision however since I don't practice in every state I don't know that to be the case. I hope this answers your question.

[Katprint]

Don't prosecutors have to turn over witnesses who they interview and find to be pro-defense? I remember reading that some where...
Prosecutors have a duty to turn over any potentially exculpatory (tending to prove innocence) evidence, including witness statements. This is because the prosecution represents the People or the State, and has a "higher" duty to pursue justice at the expense of winning. Defense attorneys do NOT have a reciprocal duty to turn over any potentially incriminating witness statements.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

ETA: Lapis is more accurate and more eloquent than I. I'm going to bed.

[Lapis]

I don't practice in Florida either, but I do recall reading about some weird rule that applies when one party lists a particular witness on its witness list, which limits the ability of the other side to contact the witness directly to conduct informal discovery e.g. recorded witness statements. Kind of a mutated cross between attorney work product and the old "vouching" rule. So, the parties are not permitted to merely regurgitate the other side's witness list but instead must list the witnesses they truly, in good faith, expect to call. Of course, the downside of this is the risk of revealing the attorneys' trial strategies.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

That makes sense which would mean that at that point only formal deposition with notice can take place. I will defer to your analysis. I think that was the basis for the objection filed by the prosecution to the defense original witness list. IMO

[nothingnew]

The Anthony's have said in the past that they are Catholic (rosary beads)
I may be mistaken, but don't Catholics believe a person can't go to heaven after committing suicide?

My deep sympathies to George and the hell on earth he must be living.

I think it was casey who had the rosary beads (wearing them like a necklace), maybe TonE is Catholic and it was more of that chameleon thing. I don't think the family is Catholic. All I recall is they have their Pastor from a local church-nothing about a Priest.

[mosey?]

Okay, I fumed quite a bit today. First I felt so sorry for George when I heard that he was threatening to kill himself because I thought all the lies and obstructions of justice were getting to him. I though that had brought him to the point where he was ready to give it all up and admit that he knew Casey was lying through her teeth.

Then I discovered that he had written pages about how strong and wonderful Casey is and how she could never hurt her little girl, and I was off the wall with anger. How could he be so dense?!

My stance right now is that he got sick and tired of Cindy and he knew he'd never get the job so he ran off to the ocean to drink himself into oblivion. He got melancholy from all the beer and started texting people telling them that he wanted to die.

I think that if they had left him alone, he would have woke up the next morning with a big head and gone home to Cindy.

I don't know. I might have an entirely new theory tomorrow, but this is where I stand tonight.Sooo.. Did George swallow any pills?
Cindy said meds were missing and there were empty bottles in the Hawaii motel trash. Any word whether or not he ate them?
I guess he was pretty placid en route to the hospital. could've been the beer

[nothingnew]

Hopefully the back and forth bickering will be left on the old thread or this board is going to get shut down again.

I asked a question on the last thread and i'm gonna ask it here. Weren't the A's on the prosecution list? If they were, how can they be on the Defense list? How does that work, i thought that they could only testify under one side?

Well....I haven't checked pros. witness list lately-are they still listed? The way I remember it if the state calls them as witnesses then they will automatically be granted immunity (I can't remember the exact type of immunity-maybe someone will jump in here, not blanket immunity but?). Lee's lawyer was really pushing recently to get lee put on the pros. witness list-as in wanting a definite 'yes, we will call him as a witness'. At this point I don't think the state needs their testimony so why call them as witnesses and grant them immunity if you do not have to and if you know they are not, as a family, very reliable or honest. That's my take on why the defense has them listed now-to make sure they can testify and get caseys side of the story in there without calling casey.
This is just the way I see it, we'll see what other answers you get and then compare notes-fair enough?

[mosey?]

We do not know officially.IF there were emply pill bottles in the trash, and George took them, that is very sad, IMO
IF there were empty pill bottles in the trash and George DID NOT take them, that is also sad, but in a different way.

If the latter is true, what was his message, and to whom?
It wouldnt make sense... I think he took them.

[RiverWalk]

George was admitted to the hospital under the Baker Act. This allows for an adult to be involuntarily committed for a 72 hr physical and psychiatric evaluation. The patient admitted under these circumstances has no ability to refuse any tests or treatment his treating physician requests. He is basically stripped of his rights and for legal purposes treated like a child. The doctor and next of kin make all treatment decisions, including what tests are done. After 72 hours, if the pt. is deemed "not a threat to himself or others" he can make his own decision whether to continue the Dr's recommended therapy or go home and do nothing. If he is decided to be a danger to himself he can be kept indefinitely. It was reported that George was calm and cooperative but he was still admitted under these provisions so he could not change his mind and leave.

O/T Never understood how Brittney got out in 24 hours.

This article mentions some of that:

George Anthony has been Baker-acted (Baker Act details). Police, doctors and mental health professionals are allowed to hold someone in a hospital, against their will, for up to 72 hours if they think they're at risk of committing suicide or hurting another person.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18545717/detail.html

[mosey?]

"Sources told Eyewitness News, in the letter, George mentioned that he wanted to go to heaven; he only mentioned Casey Anthony a few times and said she was a strong determined person.

Sources said George focused the letter mainly on Caylee, Cindy, Lee and Lee's girlfriend, Mallory; he told Cindy he was a failure as a husband and a father and went on to say Lee was a great son and he was proud of the man he had become."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18545717/detail.html#-Didnt he tell the Datona Beach officer that he was "broke"? I wonder if he ment financially or spiritually.

[catdoc]

A person who has to be tracked down by the cops because his wife, son, attorney and "friends" because they think he might kill himself then is found in a hotel room with alcohol, pills (I have seen b/p and sleeping pills reported), and with a suicide note is taken for psychiatric inpatient evaluation regardless of his wishes. The fact that he claims to be depressed and suicidal, by definition, means he is incompetent to make medical decisions. If he can convince the doctors he was not serious and psychological testing does not demonstrate Clinical Depression, he can be found "not a danger" and given the option to stay or go.In most states he could be kept 72 hrs. for a complete evaluation.

[mosey?]

Its not just catholics who believe that. Lutherans believe suicide is the only sin where you can't ask forgivness, and you would be excluded from heaven.I think so, too. I know most Christians have that belief. I guess George didnt think it all the way through. But, I have heard his love and devotion for Caylee ran deep, so I understand where he was coming from.

[i_pickle]

Didnt he tell the Datona Beach officer that he was "broke"? I wonder if he ment financially or spiritually.Probably both.

[Lapis]

I think so, too. I know most Christians have that belief. I guess George didnt think it all the way through. But, I have heard his love and devotion for Caylee ran deep, so I understand where he was coming from.

Presbyterians forgive everything!

[catdoc]

LOL whatever! I proved you wrong and yet you still keep claiming the same old same old. :rolleyes: They can hold him for evaluation and that is it! They can NOT force treatment. They need a court order for that! If a judge can not order a defendant to take medication what makes you think they can force a hospital patient to?

I have practiced medicine for 28 yrs. You are wrong.

[mosey?]

Presbyterians forgive everything!But... Does their God? That's the big 64k Q

[mosey?]

There were empty bottles in the trash. Did they have to pump his stomach out? I dunno.If they admitted him under that Act (I forget what its called) it's probably SOP for suspected OD patients, even if all they get is masticated pizza for their troubles.

[Lapis]

But... Does their God? That's the big 64k Q

Will have to wait and see!LOL

[Lapis]

I have practiced medicine for 28 yrs. You are wrong.

Question for you medical types. Isn't this the type of thing that can vary from state to state depending upon how the statute is drafted?

[mosey?]

Will have to wait and see!LOLYou ask Him, instead of the alternative, OK? LOL

[Lapis]

You ask Him, instead of the alternative, OK? LOL

I'll let you know if I get an answer. If I do you may have to Baker Act me. LOL

[mosey?]

I have practiced medicine for 28 yrs. You are wrong.Shades of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Strap 'em down and give 'em an introvenious? Seems harsh

[i_pickle]

That's not all his letter focused on.

He wrote about how strong his daughter, Casey Anthony, is and said he doesn't believe she hurt her daughter, Caylee.

However, he did make dark, veiled references to his daughter's friends.

Attorney: George Anthony Pushed To Brink (http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.html)Regardless of what he says I can't believe that he doesn't know in his heart that Casey is responsible. Imo, he is so torn between what his wife wants him to do and what his gut, or conscience tells him to do that he makes drastic moves like he did yesterday.

It was a cry for help and a chance to get away from her and the circus that's in his front yard day in and day out.

I won't be surprised if he drops the charade now. At least, I hope he does. Of the three immediate family members, I think it will be him that stops the lies and denial first.

[catdoc]

There were empty bottles in the trash. Did they have to pump his stomach out? I dunno.

It would depend on how much the evidence showed that he actually took the pills and how many. If Cindy said 2 weeks worth were missing and the cops could not locate them (just empty bottles) they would probably administer an emetic like apomorphine. A drop in the eye and he will puke his guts out. Some Drs prefer to pump the stomach (out of an abundance of caution). He had no right to refuse any of it. His Dr. and wife would decide.

[RiverWalk]

I'll let you know if I get an answer. If I do you may have to Baker Act me. LOL

http://www.wftv.com/news/18545717/detail.html

George Anthony has been Baker-acted (Baker Act details). Police, doctors and mental health professionals are allowed to hold someone in a hospital, against their will, for up to 72 hours if they think they're at risk of committing suicide or hurting another person.

Explains FLORIDA's Baker Act.

[Heyes]

[QUOTE=LandSharkII©;12696824]That's not all his letter focused on.

He wrote about how strong his daughter, Casey Anthony, is and said he doesn't believe she hurt her daughter, Caylee.

However, he did make dark, veiled references to his daughter's friends.

[URL="http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail]

He believes casey didn't hurt her daughter and he made Dark, veiled references to his daughters friends.
Uh huh.

[Mimi428]

Presbyterians forgive everything!

I think they are similar to the Methodists in that regard. Methodists refer to Romans 8:38-39, when discussing it. I know a Methodist minister would be exhorted to extend pastoral care to anyone touched by suicide & that they are expected to work to reduce the stigma felt by those who have been. (B-I-L is a pastor)

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In any case, I don't think people who are at the point of seriously contemplating ending their life are necessarily going to be thinking about what one religion or another has to say about suicide.

JMO

[mosey?]

Regardless of what he says I can't believe that he doesn't know in his heart that Casey is responsible. Imo, he is so torn between what his wife wants him to do and what his gut, or conscience tells him to do that he makes drastic moves like he did yesterday.

It was a cry for help and a chance to get away from her and the circus that's in his front yard day in and day out.

I won't be surprised if he drops the charade now. At least, I hope he does. Of the three immediate family members, I think it will be him that stops the lies and denial first.When I first heard this news, that is exactly what I thought. Cindy did this. The guy has been drawn and quartered on all sides. What is better then hell on earth anyway, which has become his daily LIFE. The alternative to life, then...
My heart bleeds for him.

[catdoc]

Shades of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". Strap 'em down and give 'em an introvenious? Seems harsh

Not at all. They are trying to protect him from himself. Remember he said he wanted to die. Doctors usually give no drugs during the evaluation so that the psychological tests want be affected. Most pt's at this stage want drugs but many are refused until they know what is exactly going on with him.

[Mimi428]

What if he has a DNR on file? Or advance directive?

Out the window in the case of someone who was so despondent they needed to be admitted via the Baker Act.

[Lapis]

I think they are similar to the Methodists in that regard. Methodists refer to Romans 8:38-39, when discussing it. I know a Methodist minister would be exhorted to extend pastoral care to anyone touched by suicide & that they are expected to work to reduce the stigma felt by those who have been. (B-I-L is a pastor)

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In any case, I don't think people who are at the point of seriously contemplating ending their life are necessarily going to be thinking about what one religion or another has to say about suicide.

JMO

I Agree. I think we were just trying to throw a little late nite gallows humor into all of this.

[mosey?]

I think they are similar to the Methodists in that regard. Methodists refer to Romans 8:38-39, when discussing it. I know a Methodist minister would be exhorted to extend pastoral care to anyone touched by suicide & that they are expected to work to reduce the stigma felt by those who have been. (B-I-L is a pastor)

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In any case, I don't think people who are at the point of seriously contemplating ending their life are necessarily going to be thinking about what one religion or another has to say about suicide.

JMOI think it depends on the goal, the end result. If George wanted to be WITH Caylee, to make sure she was in God's lap, acceptance into Heaven would have been a major concern.

[mosey?]

When you are Baker-Acted you have the right to refuse treatment. You do not have the right to refuse admittance.Do you think if George said "No" they would have still pumped his stomach, if they though he might die without it?

[catdoc]

What if he has a DNR on file? Or advance directive?

More of a legal question. I, personally never seen one of these documents which addressed suicide. Since suicide is illegal I don't think these docs apply to an illegal act.

[mosey?]

More of a legal question. I, personally never seen one of these documents which addressed suicide. Since suicide is illegal I don't think these docs apply to an illegal act.Do you think George will stand charges for attempted suicide? Gads, I hope not. That's all he needs.

[Mimi428]

I think religious beliefs pertaining to suicide have probably prevented countless of people from doing the act. It would be the reason I wouldn't do it. I do think some might prefer eternal hell over life on earth.

But the reality is, countries where Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox religions are the strongest also have the highest rates of suicide among the elderly. Ireland is the exception. You wouldn't think that would be the way it is, but the studies have proven otherwise.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1532153

When compared to suicide rates in the general population, it may be expected that elderly suicide rates would be lower in Catholic and Orthodox societies than in non-Catholic or non-Orthodox countries because of religious affiliations and extended family traditions. National suicide rates in the general population were compared with rates in the sub-population of those aged over 75 years. Proportionately, there are significantly higher suicide rates in elderly men in Catholic and Orthodox countries, compared to rates in other countries, with a trend for similar findings among women.

[catdoc]

Do you think if George said "No" they would have still pumped his stomach, if they though he might die without it?

He can not deny life-saving treatment. Not after making suicide threats. This makes him mentally incompetent to make the decisions on emergency treatment. All ER's have judges on call for the court order if needed. It can be obtained almost immediately.

[mosey?]

That depends on how he was acting. I have seen people refuse who seemed fine and they were not forced, and I have seen some who were because they were unconscious, hallucinating or their heartbeat was low or too high or the blood test indicated toxicity.Yikes, do you work in an ER? They said he just seemed very sad. BUT, there were empty pill bottles and a lengthy suicide note.
The report said "blood pressure/pain pills. Are they the same thing or different?

[i_pickle]

You guys have probably all gone to bed by now, but I need to say this... if George could get away from Cindy's controlling nature for awhile, I believe he could come to his senses and reaffirm that he knows Casey did this. Its like he's under a spell that she's put on him! Ever hear of the "Jezebel Spirit"? I think its something like that. Cindy has a hold on him and its not healthy!Lol, I should be in bed but I'm not. :smile:

I agree. Imo, when he said he wanted to be by himself, or alone, or however he worded it that spoke volumes. And it was also mentioned that Cindy was "mad" about what he did (sorry, don't have a link, just read it while trying to catch up, so I don't know if it's true or rumor) but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

I've never heard of the "Jezebel Spirit" but I can figure out what it means and I agree, the hold she seems to have on him is unhealthy.

[mosey?]

He can not deny life-saving treatment. Not after making suicide threats. This makes him mentally incompetent to make the decisions on emergency treatment. All ER's have judges on call for the court order if needed. It can be obtained almost immediately.I know that in fact to be true, My Mom's second husband was DSS -'Nam, and she went through this once with him

[Oregongal]

There were empty bottles in the trash. Did they have to pump his stomach out? I dunno.

I'm thinking that the numerous reports last night and early this morning saying that George was being stabilized in the emergency room, that meant that yes they pumped and charcoholed him.
I'm sure they immediately did a tox screen on him when he was brought in and regardless of the reports, they found he had taken the pills from the empty bottles the police found in his room.
I've noticed the police and hospital spokeswoman were very careful in not releasing exactly the condition George was in when he reached the ER.
That says to me there is more to the story that we don't and may not know of the story.
The fact that he walked out on his own is good, but, no telling when he had ingested the pills and on top of the 8 beers. Even if he'd just taken all his blood pressure meds, this could also prove fatal. But, way earlier today I also read that he had sleeping pills as well.
I'm thinking that the police found him just in time, before the pills were able to take full effect.
Kudos to both the OCSD and the Daytona police for moving so quickly, doing what was most likely a life saving finding of this missing person....George. They most likely saved his life.
Too bad Casey didn't call them when Caylee went missing....yeah, I know, Caylee was never missing, she was murdered. But, this action on the OCSD's part says to me that if she really had been missing, they would have found her within hours.
I highlights to me how Casey claiming she was afraid to invlove LE because it might be dangerous for Caylee was such a lie.
They proved last night that what she said was the total opposite.

[Lapis]

:lol: Hospitals have judges on call? OK!


I agree that he could not refuse life saving treatment but anything outside of that he could.

Hospitals do not have judges on call. However, in every court there is a judge assigned to emergent matters. They usually rotate. Where I am the judge brings a pager home with him.

[Mimi428]

Its like he's under a spell that she's put on him! Ever hear of the "Jezebel Spirit"?

<snipped>


Oooooh, be careful now, or somebody will have to break out a copy of the Malleus Maleficarum - the "Witches Hammer", as used by those during the Inquisition to justify why every evil is the fault of a woman.

But you know that has been going on since the beginning of time. First chance that came about Adam tried to put the blame on Eve...

KWIM?

JMO

[catdoc]

:lol: Hospitals have judges on call? OK!


I agree that he could not refuse life saving treatment but anything outside of that he could.

Why would a doctor want to force any other treatment on him? If he is determined to be a danger to himself or others the doctor and next of kin will decide whether to treat (not the patient).

[i_pickle]

No I do not work in an ER. I am not a doctor but I do know a lot about this from real life experience.So do I and the person I know that attempted suicide was held until it was determined that they were no longer a danger to themselves or anyone else.

There was no judge involved, no court order and LE's role ended when they dropped them off at the hospital. Psych evals determined when they could leave.

Laws may vary in different states, I don't know.

[Lapis]

I know you are right, and I find it suspicious that you have not weighed in on this issue since I do know that as a criminal attorney you would know a thing or two about involuntary commitment. Why so?

I tried to diffuse the situation with my question somewhat retorical which was ignored that it varies from state to state. I do not have any experience with invountary commitments to a psychiatric ward. I am humble enough to understand that I do not know everything. I do know that advanced directives do not address this issue. The issue may be one of first impression when it comes to advanced directives and suicide attempts. Maybe someone else is an in house attorney for a hospital and can help.

[i_pickle]

Why would a doctor want to force any other treatment on him? If he is determined to be a danger to himself or others the doctor and next of kin will decide whether to treat (not the patient).The next of kin would have to have medical POA and in order for that to happen it would have to be determined in court that he was unable to make those decisions for himself. None of that happened.

Medical POA is not an easy thing to get and attempted suicide would not qualify.

[Mimi428]

There is more to it than that actually. A person can be taken voluntarily or involuntarily to the hospital by police but at that point they can voluntarily admit themselves under the Baker Act, if it is necessary and they refuse then they can be forced. A person can choose to stay the full 72 hours and it would appear that they were held against their will until that 72 hours was up or they can file a petition demanding their release within 24 hours and then that would necessitate a court order to keep them after that time frame.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/mentalhealth/laws/chapter394.pdf

However, if such a person is adjudicated incapacitated, his or her rights may be limited to the same extent the rights of any incapacitated person are limited by law.

From your link, page 9 under Rights of Patients 1)Right to Individual Dignity

3) RIGHT TO EXPRESS AND INFORMED PATIENT CONSENT.
Each patient entering treatment shall be asked to give express and informed consent for admission or treatment. If the patient has been adjudicated incapacitated or found to be incompetent to consent to treatment, express and informed consent to treatment shall be sought instead from the patient’s guardian or guardian advocate.

[catdoc]

If his only medical condition was a danger to self or others, why would next of kin decide? That can't be accurate.

If he is a danger to himself or others (suicidal or homicidal) he is not mentally competent. It may be diagnosed as Clinical Depression, Bi-polar Disorder, or a psychosis but in any case the fact that he wants to kill himself or someone else makes him incompetent to make a rational decision about his own treatment. In my state, 2 doctors agree, and the decision is made based own their agreement although they usually consult with the family. At the point of determination of a danger he only has the choice between hospital or jail.

[Lapis]

However, if such a person is adjudicated incapacitated, his or her rights may be limited to the same extent the rights of any incapacitated person are limited by law.

From your link, page 9 under Rights of Patients 1)Right to Individual Dignity

3) RIGHT TO EXPRESS AND INFORMED PATIENT CONSENT.
Each patient entering treatment shall be asked to give express and informed consent for admission or treatment. If the patient has been adjudicated incapacitated or found to be incompetent to consent to treatment, express and informed consent to treatment shall be sought instead from the patient’s guardian or guardian advocate.

I think the operative words in that citation is adjudicated. This usually means by a court.

[i_pickle]

I would think that it would be more like the elderly couple, where one or both is in frail health and they want to go together. I think its not unreasonable that they both can't see a reason to go on, and neither of them would want to leave the other alone in this tragedy. If I were either of them, its the way I would do it, or want to do it. I wouldn't want to live in their situation.I don't see them as the loving couple you seem to think they are.

Imo, they will both live through this and will end up getting divorced.

George just took the first step, imo.

[i_pickle]

I heard this on NG this evening. Of course she's "mad". He's stepped outside what she has scripted him to do and say.

I reiterate... he needs to get far, far away from Cindy! Its almost like deprogramming a young person from a cult!!!I agree. They reported that in the note he said he was a failure to her. I think he wants out but I don't think he'll take his own life to accomplish that.

If he really wanted to die, he had ample time and opportunity to do it.

JMO

[happygert]

I do not believe for One nano second that GA was going to commit suicide.. I do believe it was a set up staged event... How many suicide by males have you heard that committed suicide by blood pressure pills? or any kind of pills? Ok a 12 pack of beer and empty bottle of blood pressure meds. If he truly was going to commit suicide he would have picked a day where he didnt have 5 frigging appointments. He would have took his gun...No way.. IMO this was a ploy to get GA out of the hot seat with casey and cindy.. this was done for SYMPATHY.. Ok now if they think I'm suicidal maybe they will give us immunity.. Or they wont call me as a witness.. Because of my condition...NO way not BUYING what they ARE SELLING...

And if he truly tried to commit suicide he would be in the psychiatric ward......not in reg room.
Ok eveyone can start throwing things now..

[catdoc]

What State would that be? I have heard of that situation in IL actually and it takes more than 2 doctors agreeing. It also requires a court order.

I am licensed in 5 states. An adjudication or a court order is no big deal (if the patient has admitted to being suicidal). A phone call and a couple of faxes will do it.

[Heyes]

I don't see them as the loving couple you seem to think they are.

Imo, they will both live through this and will end up getting divorced.

George just took the first step, imo.

This isn't making sense. Why would george kill himself when this grandbaby is still sitting in a box unburied.
His "innocent" daughter still sitting in jail. And according to the anthonys, some
crazy yet loving, kidnapping, murdering nanny is still on the loose? Then he writes a nice long letter making sure he once again throws caseys friends under the bus.
No ambulance either. Just a nice little chat and a walk to the car. Nope, there is a hitch in the giddyup folks.

[Lapis]

I am licensed in 5 states. An adjudication or a court order is no big deal (if the patient has admitted to being suicidal). A phone call and a couple of faxes will do it.

Not where I practice law. I do know enough to know that a court hearing is necessary. Faxes won't do. IMO

[mosey?]

Yes and none of that happened with George. Only a judge can order someone incapacitated. Adults do not have guardians without court orders.

Here:

TRANSFER TO VOLUNTARY STATUS. An involuntary patient who applies to be transferred to voluntary status shall be transferred to voluntary status immediately, unless the patient has been charged with a crime, or has been involuntarily placed for treatment by a court pursuant to s. 394.467 and continues to meet the criteria for involuntary placement. When transfer to voluntary status occurs, notice shall be given as provided in s. 394.4599

and

A voluntary patient who has been admitted to a facility and who refuses to consent to or revokes consent to treatment shall be discharged within 24 hours after such refusal or revocation, unless transferred to involuntary status pursuant to this section or unless the refusal or revocation is freely and voluntarily rescinded by the patient.


I dont think I need to remind anyone that we do not know if George voluntarily admitted himself or he was involuntarily admitted. The fact that he was taken involuntarily to the hospital does not mean those were the circumstance of him being admitted. The issue has many loop holes.George was Baker Act(ed)
"The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment). It can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person" From this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Act)

gotta love that wiki!

[i_pickle]

Most people who do eventually succeed in suicide had a few trial runs first. The fact that he did not succeed says nothing about his intent. Proof of that is how many who do not really want to die, actually do.Do you have stats on that or is it jyo?

I think it was a cry for help and that text messages as well as the time that elapsed bear that out. Does he own a gun? Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just shoot himself instead of driving to a motel, getting pizza, drinking beer and texting people that he didn't want to live anymore?

[catdoc]

Not where I practice law. I do know enough to know that a court hearing is necessary. Faxes won't do. IMO

I was only referring to a pt. who is admittedly suicidal. He can be held immediately and until deemed better. He does not get to leave and wait for court. He has to be saved from killing himself. Adelay could be fatal. A court hearing would be later.

[imlawlor]

"ST. LOUIS -- The United States Supreme Court today affirmed that an individual has a significant constitutionally protected liberty interest in avoiding the unwanted administration of antipsychotic drugs in a case that set firm guidelines on when the government can drug a person against his will. "

"The Court held that the individual's circumstances must be taken into account and could mitigate the government's interest in involuntarily medicating a person in order to prosecute him," Lieberman added."

"When it comes to government actions that infringe on fundamental liberties, the government can and should be made to take individual circumstances into account. Indeed, while the court held that some circumstances could allow for forced medication, it conceded that those could be rare."

http://www.aclu.org/crimjustice/gen/10102prs20030616.html

The exceptions are the safety of others and self. George was clearly not a threat to anyones safety when he was admitted and therefore can not be medicated against his will. Nor does he lose any of his legal rights to control his own medical care.

Read the exceptions carefully. It says safety of others and SEĿF. George was suicidal therefore risk to self therefore under doctors care as to medication and treatment.

[Lapis]

I was only referring to a pt. who is admittedly suicidal. He can be held immediately and until deemed better. He does not get to leave and wait for court. He has to be saved from killing himself. Adelay could be fatal. A court hearing would be later.

That's what the Baker Act provides for. I thought the argument was over once committed what happens. I thought the questions were 1) Can treatment be forced on a patient? and 2) once committed can he be continued to be held involuntarily without a hearing ? Am I missing something?

[Mimi428]

Not where I practice law. I do know enough to know that a court hearing is necessary. Faxes won't do. IMO

And then there is this part (about what can be done while waiting for the court to decide)

f) A patient shall be examined by a physician or clinical psychologist at a receiving facility without unnecessary delay and may, upon the order of a physician, be given emergency treatment if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others. The patient may not be released by the receiving facility or its contractor without the documented approval of a psychiatrist, a clinical psychologist, or, if the receiving facility is a hospital, the release may also be approved by an attending emergency department physician with experience in the diagnosis and treatment of mental and nervous disorders and after completion of an involuntary examination pursuant to this subsection. However, a patient may not be held in a receiving facility for involuntary examination longer than 72 hours

Now how broad the interpretation would be for "necessary for the safety of the patient", I surely do not have a clue.

[catdoc]

Read the exceptions carefully. It says safety of others and SEĿF. George was suicidal therefore risk to self therefore under doctors care as to medication and treatment.

Exactly. I've been trying to say that all night. He was admittedly a danger to himself. Those condtions I have repeated (danger to self or others) take away his rights to decide on treatment.

[happygert]

The police confiscated his gun.

Ok so were going to take an EMPTY PILL BOTTLE a 12 pack of beer, burger and fries and order a pizza, write a suicide note saying casey's innocent and her friend did it. then call everyone and tell them your committing suicide.. go to hospital and not be put in the psychiatric ward but in regular room.... NOPE not buying this BS..

[Lapis]

And then there is this part (about what can be done while waiting for the court to decide)

f) A patient shall be examined by a physician or clinical psychologist at a receiving facility without unnecessary delay and may, upon the order of a physician, be given emergency treatment if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others. The patient may not be released by the receiving facility or its contractor without the documented approval of a psychiatrist, a clinical psychologist, or, if the receiving facility is a hospital, the release may also be approved by an attending emergency department physician with experience in the diagnosis and treatment of mental and nervous disorders and after completion of an involuntary examination pursuant to this subsection. However, a patient may not be held in a receiving facility for involuntary examination longer than 72 hours

Now how broad the interpretation would be for "necessary for the safety of the patient", I surely do not have a clue.

That and the definition of emergency treatment. IMO

[catdoc]

Listen I read it, I already knew it. If 5 minutes after he is admitted he demands voluntary status they have to give it to him. If 10 minutes after that he demands to be released they have to do it within 24 hours. If an hour after he is admitted he is deemed no longer a threat they have to under the Florida law Statutes move him to voluntary status! It is plain as day!

Yes. If he is deemed no longer a threat. I kept saying if he was deemed to be a threat to self or others. If he is deeded no longer a threat my statements do not apply. Of course, after threatening suicide and taking steps to do it, a doctor is not likely to "deem him no longer a threat to self" regardless of what he says, after 5 or 10 minutes.

[Mimi428]

Listen I read it, I already knew it. If 5 minutes after he is admitted he demands voluntary status they have to give it to him. If 10 minutes after that he demands to be released they have to do it within 24 hours. If an hour after he is admitted he is deemed no longer a threat they have to under the Florida law Statutes move him to voluntary status! It is plain as day!

Ever heard of cut & paste, so we can get on the same page?


5) TRANSFER TO INVOLUNTARY STATUS. When a voluntary patient, or an authorized person on the patient’s behalf, makes a request for discharge, the request for discharge, unless freely and voluntarily rescinded, must be communicated to a physician, clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist as quickly as possible, but not later than 12 hours after the request is made. If the patient meets the criteria for involuntary placement, the administrator of the facility must file with the court a petition for involuntary placement, within 2 court working days after the request for discharge is made. If the petition is not filed within 2 court working days, the patient shall be discharged. Pending the filing of the petition, the patient may be held and emergency treatment rendered in the least restrictive manner, upon the written order of a physician, if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others.

He can ask to be transferred to voluntary status & they must proceed through the proper channels to keep him, if they believe he should be kept. And while they are keeping him & waiting for the court to decide, he can be treated.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

:shrug:

[i_pickle]

"Research shows that risk factors for suicide include:

* depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors.2
* stressful life events, in combination with other risk factors, such as depression. However, suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal.
* prior suicide attempt
* family history of mental disorder or substance abuse
* family history of suicide
* family violence, including physical or sexual abuse
* firearms in the home,3 the method used in more than half of suicides
* incarceration
* exposure to the suicidal behavior of others, such as family members, peers, or media figures.2

Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims. 4"

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention.shtml#factorsOkay, so research shows that prior attempts are a factor. Does reasearch show that calling people and telling them what you're about to do so they can stop you is also a factor?

Sorry, I don't think he really wanted to die. I think he wanted help and I think he wanted out of that mad house he's in. And he got it.

What happens when he gets released is anyone's guess.

JMO

[Lapis]

Ever heard of cut & paste, so we can get on the same page?


5) TRANSFER TO INVOLUNTARY STATUS. When a voluntary patient, or an authorized person on the patient’s behalf, makes a request for discharge, the request for discharge, unless freely and voluntarily rescinded, must be communicated to a physician, clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist as quickly as possible, but not later than 12 hours after the request is made. If the patient meets the criteria for involuntary placement, the administrator of the facility must file with the court a petition for involuntary placement, within 2 court working days after the request for discharge is made. If the petition is not filed within 2 court working days, the patient shall be discharged. Pending the filing of the petition, the patient may be held and emergency treatment rendered in the least restrictive manner, upon the written order of a physician, if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others.

He can ask to be transferred to voluntary status & they must proceed through the proper channels to keep him, if they believe he should be kept. And while they are keeping him & waiting for the court to decide, he can be treated.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

:shrug:

You are doing a yeoman's job Mimi. However, we stillhave no definition of emergency treatment. I'm beginning to believe there is no point of difference between Bratlings and Catdoc. IMO

[happygert]

Hasn't anyone seen whats going on here?? The focus is now on GA... the DOC DUMP is not being talked about now..They wanted the reports to stop.. They didn't want anymore out there about what casey did to Caylee. So now for the next couple of days the doc and evidence will not be reported on..

[Mimi428]

Ok so were going to take an EMPTY PILL BOTTLE a 12 pack of beer, burger and fries and order a pizza, write a suicide note saying casey's innocent and her friend did it. then call everyone and tell them your committing suicide.. go to hospital and not be put in the psychiatric ward but in regular room.... NOPE not buying this BS..


Ever consider his 'regular room' is ON the psych floor? Or that the entire facility could by a psych facility?

[mosey?]

He was taken involuntarily to the hospital, that does not mean he was admitted involuntarily. They have to offer you voluntary before they attempt involuntary. If he agreed which he may very well have agreed to it then he was not involuntarily admitted. Even if he was he can be released any time before that 72 hours is up. It is not a minimum stay law, it is the maximum time frame that they can hold you without a court order.Read it. The Baker Act covers admittance and treatment, not the ride over.

[mosey?]

Hasn't anyone seen whats going on here?? The focus is now on GA... the DOC DUMP is not being talked about now..They wanted the reports to stop.. They didn't want anymore out there about what casey did to Caylee. So now for the next couple of days the doc and evidence will not be reported on..I get what your saying, but dont worry, we'll all be back.

[happygert]

Ever consider his 'regular room' is ON the psych floor? Or that the entire facility could by a psych facility?

NOPE he's in reg room not on psych ward.... NOT buying this line of BS...You dont take a knife to a gun fight and you dont take an EMPTY BOTTLE of PILLS and a 12 pack of BEER to a SUICIDE!

[Heyes]

Ok so were going to take an EMPTY PILL BOTTLE a 12 pack of beer, burger and fries and order a pizza, write a suicide note saying casey's innocent and her friend did it. then call everyone and tell them your committing suicide.. go to hospital and not be put in the psychiatric ward but in regular room.... NOPE not buying this BS..


nope.

I'm with you. I think this is all bs.
can't wait to see what, according to their attorney during his pressor and many talk show appearances, these privacy seeking, (cough), folks will do next.

[catdoc]

Ever heard of cut & paste, so we can get on the same page?


5) TRANSFER TO INVOLUNTARY STATUS. When a voluntary patient, or an authorized person on the patient’s behalf, makes a request for discharge, the request for discharge, unless freely and voluntarily rescinded, must be communicated to a physician, clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist as quickly as possible, but not later than 12 hours after the request is made. If the patient meets the criteria for involuntary placement, the administrator of the facility must file with the court a petition for involuntary placement, within 2 court working days after the request for discharge is made. If the petition is not filed within 2 court working days, the patient shall be discharged. Pending the filing of the petition, the patient may be held and emergency treatment rendered in the least restrictive manner, upon the written order of a physician, if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others.

He can ask to be transferred to voluntary status & they must proceed through the proper channels to keep him, if they believe he should be kept. And while they are keeping him & waiting for the court to decide, he can be treated.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

:shrug:

It is straightforward. Only a MB could make it confusing.The doctor decides what emergency treatment involves and how long it should last.

It was reported he was admitted under the Baker act, which means involuntarily...even though he was said to cooperate. That's so he couldn't sober up and change his mind and want to go home before they could determine the threat.

[Mimi428]

You are doing a yeoman's job Mimi. However, we stillhave no definition of emergency treatment. I'm beginning to believe there is no point of difference between Bratlings and Catdoc. IMO

I'm agreein' with you.

I couldn't find their definition of "emergency treatment", so I guess that will be another discussion. Yowie!

[Narcissist71]

I'm sorry....way behind.....and I just started reading on the last thread.....

But it's something that hit me, kind of amazes me.....(NOT REALLY)

So many here seem to be able to claim to know what the Anthony's are thinking......

yet when someone questions a post that they make, they answer with "don't put words in my mouth", "you don't know what I'm thinking", "you are twisting my words".......and several other responses...

Sorry, just find it amusing.

And all I can say is WOW.....but in a not so surprised kind of WOW :)

[catdoc]

I know how it works, in practice, because I have admitted ER patients to the psychiatric ward for many years under the Baker Act or similiar laws.

[happygert]

nope.

I'm with you. I think this is all bs.
can't wait to see what, according to their attorney during his pressor and many talk show appearances, these privacy seeking, (cough), folks will do next.

Exactly! Heres another thing you call your attorney to dial 911 to tell them your husband may be commiting suicide.. then you go check his med cabinet and your room and check and see if all your pictures are there....... GMAFB!!

[mosey?]

Yes it does. It says a police officers report can initiate it.The key word is "initiate". The cop would not have pulled the "Baker Act" card if George was agreeable about admittance.

[Lapis]

I'm agreein' with you.

I couldn't find their definition of "emergency treatment", so I guess that will be another discussion. Yowie!

It must be the late hour. They just seem to be talking past each other.

[i_pickle]

If this was staged for the sake of diverting the attention off of Casey, it'll only apply to the media. Justice will keep marching on and would even if his attempt was successful.

I don't think he did this for Casey's sake, I think he just snapped under all the pressure. But I still don't think he really wanted to die. I think he wanted them to find him...and they did.

JMO

[Lapis]

I'm sorry....way behind.....and I just started reading on the last thread.....

But it's something that hit me, kind of amazes me.....(NOT REALLY)

So many here seem to be able to claim to know what the Anthony's are thinking......

yet when someone questions a post that they make, they answer with "don't put words in my mouth", "you don't know what I'm thinking", "you are twisting my words".......and several other responses...

Sorry, just find it amusing.

And all I can say is WOW.....but in a not so surprised kind of WOW :)

Bravo Bravo

[Heyes]

Exactly! Heres another thing you call your attorney to dial 911 to tell them your husband may be commiting suicide.. then you go check his med cabinet and your room and check and see if all your pictures are there....... GMAFB!!


agreed. I thought the call to Allen first by the attorney was strange. Then to 911. armed and ready with the meds missing story and a few pictures. Really? we're supposed to believe this?

I smell a rat.....again.

[happygert]

From what I understand Conway had a meeting at their home that George missed.

And what was he planning on spending the night? NOT BUYING this LINE of BS.....

[happygert]

agreed. I thought the call to Allen first by the attorney was strange. Then to 911. armed and ready with the meds missing story and a few pictures. Really? we're supposed to believe this?

I smell a rat.....again.

Yep...... another scam.....IMO

[Heyes]

And biaz was with casey until midnight.....yup i smell a rat

[Heyes]

what about conway having his little fit about the rumors that his clients are NOT making money off this thing and he will not tolerate it. Yet we all are well aware of the Find Caylee items that are still for sale...just send your money to george on hopespring drive.

[mosey?]

The officers can initiate taking him to the hospital involuntarily, the hospital does NOT have to admit him just because of that. They are entirely separate. They give power to the police and power to the hospital.Not different. The same. It's under the umbrella of the Act. If a person in authority suspects the person to be a danger, he involuntary asks for admitance. The hospital is obligated, under the law, to commit that person for observation for up to 72 hours. If they dont, and that person succeeds with their threat to themself or others... LAWSUIT

[Mimi428]

NOPE he's in reg room not on psych ward....

<snipped>

They have 50 psych beds. Why do you believe he isn't in one of the "regular" psych beds? What ELSE would they call them, if not 'regular'? They aren't called ICU, CCU, ER, etc.

Here's their website - they have over 700 beds, over 500 accredited for Medicare/Medicaid.

http://www.hospital-data.com/hospitals/HALIFAX-MEDICAL-CENTER-DAYTONA-BEACH.html

[Lapis]

agreed. I thought the call to Allen first by the attorney was strange. Then to 911. armed and ready with the meds missing story and a few pictures. Really? we're supposed to believe this?

I smell a rat.....again.

I think the sequence of events was as follows: BC was at the house for a 4PM meeting. George did not show. After a period of time they started to worry because he did not answer his cell phone. BC called Allen because they had a relationship. Allen instructed them to call 911and he was coming over. They checked the house before calling to see if anything was missing. That's when the noticed the meds and the pictures missing. They relayed that information to 911. IIRC

[happygert]

What does that mean? The appointment was in the afternoon from what I have read.

Wasn't it at 10:30 11:30 at night or was it even later that BC called 911? so what was he spending the night? If appt. was in afternoon this is late night.......

[Heyes]

The only thing it sounds like to me is that Baez knew about George's threats of suicide and that something could happen and he wanted to be there to make sure he was able to tell Casey himself or prevent her from freaking out and talking.

Not according to biaz. He said they didn't know until morning.
But you may have a point. If they were all in on this little drama, perhaps he thought casey would have been notified that night. hmmmm; sounds to me like something was cooking between all of them.

[happygert]

<snipped>

They have 50 psych beds. Why do you believe he isn't in one of the "regular" psych beds? What ELSE would they call them, if not 'regular'? They aren't called ICU, CCU, ER, etc.

Here's their website - they have over 700 beds, over 500 accredited for Medicare/Medicaid.

http://www.hospital-data.com/hospitals/HALIFAX-MEDICAL-CENTER-DAYTONA-BEACH.html

WHY do I not believe he's not in the psych ward.. BC said he was in reg room.......What part of that dont you understand? REG ROOM.....

[i_pickle]

And biaz was with casey until midnight.....yup i smell a ratI smell a desperate man that can't hold up under all this pressure. A man that can't or won't face the truth that his daughter murdered his grandchild that he dearly loved.

If anything this makes Casey look worse in the court of public opinion. Look what she's done to her poor parents...

The talking heads were saying that very thing tonight.

If this was staged for Casey's sake, they're crazier than I thought because imo, it drives home just how far reaching her act of murder was.

[happygert]

<snipped>

They have 50 psych beds. Why do you believe he isn't in one of the "regular" psych beds? What ELSE would they call them, if not 'regular'? They aren't called ICU, CCU, ER, etc.

Here's their website - they have over 700 beds, over 500 accredited for Medicare/Medicaid.

http://www.hospital-data.com/hospitals/HALIFAX-MEDICAL-CENTER-DAYTONA-BEACH.html

and for another thing THERE WAS NO SUICIDE ATEMPT... IT WAS ALL BS period... You dont take a 12 pack of beer and an EMPTY bottle of PILLS to a suicide........What are you going to do eat the bottles ?

[Mimi428]

WHY do I not believe he's not in the psych ward.. BC said he was in reg room.......What part of that dont you understand? REG ROOM.....

On what floor or unit to you suppose that regular room is located?

Orthopedics? Cardiac? Pediatrics? Maybe Woodside Psychiatric Unit?

[mosey?]

and for another thing THERE WAS NO SUICIDE ATEMPT... IT WAS ALL BS period... You dont take a 12 pack of beer and an EMPTY bottle of PILLS to a suicide........What are you going to do eat the bottles ?What makes you think George brought EMPTY bottles?

[Lapis]

WHY do I not believe he's not in the psych ward.. BC said he was in reg room.......What part of that dont you understand? REG ROOM.....

Maybe he said that because it's none of your business where that bed is? There are privacy laws. IMO

[happygert]

Not according to biaz. He said they didn't know until morning.
But you may have a point. If they were all in on this little drama, perhaps he thought casey would have been notified that night. hmmmm; sounds to me like something was cooking between all of them.

Sure it has been baking for a long time in the A's kitchen...

[happygert]

How do you KNOW the bottles were empty before he arrived there?

BOTTLE was EMPTY didn't you listen to CHITWOOD???

[happygert]

Maybe he said that because it's none of your business where that bed is? There are privacy laws. IMO

ROFLMAO......:lol: :lol:

[mosey?]

BOTTLE was EMPTY didn't you listen to CHITWOOD???That doesnt mean they were empty upon arrival to the motel

[Lapis]

BOTTLE was EMPTY didn't you listen to CHITWOOD???

The botttle was empty when LE arrived. Does that mean it was empty when it was brought there?IMO

[i_pickle]

and for another thing THERE WAS NO SUICIDE ATEMPT... IT WAS ALL BS period... You dont take a 12 pack of beer and an EMPTY bottle of PILLS to a suicide........What are you going to do eat the bottles ?I agree with you about the suicide. I don't think he was serious about that.

But can you explain to me how any of this helps Casey? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

[mosey?]

I agree with you about the suicide. I don't think he was serious about that.

But can you explain to me how any of this helps Casey? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?If he ate the pills it was a suicide attempt. If he didnt, its a suicide threat. Big difference. The latter being a cry for help.

[Mimi428]

I'm sorry....way behind.....and I just started reading on the last thread.....

But it's something that hit me, kind of amazes me.....(NOT REALLY)

So many here seem to be able to claim to know what the Anthony's are thinking......

yet when someone questions a post that they make, they answer with "don't put words in my mouth", "you don't know what I'm thinking", "you are twisting my words".......and several other responses...

Sorry, just find it amusing.

And all I can say is WOW.....but in a not so surprised kind of WOW :)

I don't think you were supposed to notice that! LOL

For me, the amazement has always been for the posts that declare what someone SHOULD do or what they NEED to do. Huh? Who died & made any of us queen? Or boss? It always has struck me as a strange sort of conceit that anyone would consider themselves such an authority that they are qualified to say what another adult SHOULD do or NEEDS to do.

The people involved in this whole sad situation are gonna do what they are gonna do. No matter what any of us think. No matter how we live our own lives.

JMO

[Lapis]

I don't think you were supposed to notice that! LOL

For me, the amazement has always been for the posts that declare what someone SHOULD do or what they NEED to do. Huh? Who died & made any of us queen? Or boss? It always has struck me as a strange sort of conceit that anyone would consider themselves such an authority that they are qualified to say what another adult SHOULD do or NEEDS to do.

The people involved in this whole sad situation are gonna do what they are gonna do. No matter what any of us think. No matter how we live our own lives.

JMO

Those same people know exactly how they would act and think in the same situation. JMO

[mosey?]

I suppose its a shame then that LE got there so early huh? I think the only way some of you would believe it was a genuine attempt is if he was taken out of there in a body bag.Yep. Well, the guys in the know say LE saved George's life...
It sure sound like he ate them, doesnt it?

[happygert]

I agree with you about the suicide. I don't think he was serious about that.

But can you explain to me how any of this helps Casey? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

Ok I'll try... If GA is deemed mentally ILL or mentally incompetent..He thinks they will not call him to testify against casey even if he dont get the immunity...he may think they have sympathy and wont want to put any stress on him.. If they think he's suicidal.....Does that make sense to you...

[i_pickle]

If he ate the pills it was a suicide attempt. If he didnt, its a suicide threat. Big difference. The latter being a cry for help.I've said this over and over again. I think it was a cry for help because of all of the circumstances, not just the pills. Imo, if he was serious he wouldn't have told people what he was going to do, he would've just done it.

What I was asking the poster is how any of this helps Casey because that's what she seems to be implying.

[Heyes]

You didnt say it, but you clearly implied it repeatedly. You know you did!


wow I must have missed that
who exactly were they referring to?
conway? george? huh?
never mind. I really don't want to know.
:ohmy:

[i_pickle]

Ok I'll try... If GA is deemed mentally ILL or mentally incompetent..He thinks they will not call him to testify against casey even if he dont get the immunity...he may think they have sympathy and wont want to put any stress on him.. If they think he's suicidal.....Does that make sense to you...Yes, it does.

Thanks for the explanation.

[happygert]

You didnt say it, but you clearly implied it repeatedly. You know you did!

NEVER did I and never IMPLIED IT done with you...

[Lapis]

Ok I'll try... If GA is deemed mentally ILL or mentally incompetent..He thinks they will not call him to testify against casey even if he dont get the immunity...he may think they have sympathy and wont want to put any stress on him.. If they think he's suicidal.....Does that make sense to you...

I'm not sure anybody is going to mention this in court. Both sides have reasons to call him as a witness and don't want him tainted. This only makes Casey look worse. I don't see your point. JMO

[Narcissist71]

I don't think you were supposed to notice that! LOL

For me, the amazement has always been for the posts that declare what someone SHOULD do or what they NEED to do. Huh? Who died & made any of us queen? Or boss? It always has struck me as a strange sort of conceit that anyone would consider themselves such an authority that they are qualified to say what another adult SHOULD do or NEEDS to do.

The people involved in this whole sad situation are gonna do what they are gonna do. No matter what any of us think. No matter how we live our own lives.

JMO

I'm only on page 16 of the last thread....I'll be lucky to get through it all.....

but yes I agree with your post (sorry I was checking back here reading once in a while).....

I don't have anything to show how these people would act, but I do have posts where they complain about how people "spin", "twist", and other things with their words......

so that is why I posted what I did....it's easy to see (unlike how they might act).....

but I do thank you for your reply to my post.

[Lapis]

I've said this over and over again. I think it was a cry for help because of all of the circumstances, not just the pills. Imo, if he was serious he wouldn't have told people what he was going to do, he would've just done it.

What I was asking the poster is how any of this helps Casey because that's what she seems to be implying.

I don't know that it matters to me whether he took the pills either way ihe needs help. JMO

[Heyes]

Yes, it does.

Thanks for the explanation.

It also takes the focus off casey, the doc dumps, cindy's reaction at work etc.
also the anthonys are not ones to be silenced. That letter will get out.
I believe that might also be their motivation.

[i_pickle]

I suppose its a shame then that LE got there so early huh? I think the only way some of you would believe it was a genuine attempt is if he was taken out of there in a body bag.So because I disagree with you, you are accusing me of wanting GA to die?

What an ugly thing to say. I'll just consider the source and let it roll off of me and into the crapper where it belongs. :thumbdown:

[5boxersmom]

Can't sleep. :sad:

I think if George had taken any pills he would have had to have been transported by ambulance due to liability issues and they would have had to monitor his vital signs.

jmo

[mosey?]

I've said this over and over again. I think it was a cry for help because of all of the circumstances, not just the pills. Imo, if he was serious he wouldn't have told people what he was going to do, he would've just done it.

What I was asking the poster is how any of this helps Casey because that's what she seems to be implying.I think he was seriously going through with it. He didnt tell anyone where he was. He had no idea the cops would find him 65 miles from home. The texts and 5 page note were just resolutions to his loved ones. I think he meant it

[Heyes]

Can't sleep. :sad:

I think if George had taken any pills he would have had to have been transported by ambulance due to liability issues and they would have had to monitor his vital signs.

jmo


glad you're awake to add some common sense. Thanks

[happygert]

JLM......on now MIKE CHITWOOD said there was NO DRUGS or WEAPONS in the ROOM!!!!!!!!!

[Heyes]

The focus of who is off of Casey? US? The media? We do not matter in the prosecution of her crime. Are you suggesting the DA took time off to make sure George is OK before proceeding with his case against Casey?
Not at all, but the media sure did back off of casey and the docs now didn't they?
And we all know how concerned the anthonys and their attorneys are with the media.

[mosey?]

Can't sleep. :sad:

I think if George had taken any pills he would have had to have been transported by ambulance due to liability issues and they would have had to monitor his vital signs.

jmoHi Boxer! Me either.

If George didnt take the pills, why would they say LE saved his life? They knew the bottles were empty, so they knew he must have eaten them.
Lights and siren to the hospital in the Chief's car, might be faster than waiting for the EMTs

[Heyes]

It's not far fetched. There are days when I would do anything to see my mom again. He wanted to do it, but then again, couldn't give up the folks still living here on earth. I know from my heart - it's a very odd feeling.

For George - hang in there. Move on, move houses, move jobs, move cities if you have to. It will take years and years, and the process is very slow -- but you will make it. As a previous officer - I think he's much stronger than he knows he is at the moment.

Peace,

maybe george could try telling the truth, cindy or no cindy. what do ya think?

[zinnia]

I can only imagine what pressure it must have been for George to be isolated with Cindy and the last doc dump came out. The heart shaped sticker would have sent me over the edge; it meant that is was no accident and the evidence against his daughter is stacking up. Then his only real contact at this point is Cindy who has her own issues and doesn't mind blaming/sharing them.
Hope George gets some consuling and help. This would tear your heart out to live through it. Don't think it was anything planned by the defense; he simply couldn't handle the pressure anymore. Can't really blame him for reaching the end of his rope; just hope he gets some help.

[mosey?]

JLM......on now MIKE CHITWOOD said there was NO DRUGS or WEAPONS in the ROOM!!!!!!!!!What is an officers definition of drugs. Does that include valid perscription meds?

[happygert]

So because I disagree with you, you are accusing me of wanting GA to die?

What an ugly thing to say. I'll just consider the source and let it roll off of me and into the crapper where it belongs. :thumbdown:

Yep just like what she accused me of saying.. roll and scroll.......

[5boxersmom]

Hi Boxer! Me either.

If George didnt take the pills, why would they say LE saved his life? They knew the bottles were empty, so they knew he must have eaten them.
Lights and siren to the hospital in the Chief's car, might be faster than waiting for the EMTs

I don't think so. Like I said in my posts for those reasons alone I believe EMT's would have to me called to transport.

jmo

[Heyes]

Why does the media's focus matter though except to feed our inquiring minds?

You'll have to ask casey. cindy, george, jose, and brad about that one. They can't hold a conversation without talking about themselves in the media. imo

[i_pickle]

I think he was seriously going through with it. He didnt tell anyone where he was. He had no idea the cops would find him 65 miles from home. The texts and 5 page note were just resolutions to his loved ones. I think he meant itBut he did know he has a GPS on his phone and he does know that LE can ping and locate.

Hey, I don't know anything for sure, I'm just speculating like everyone else. That's why I say imo, or I think...

Lol, at least you didn't accuse me of wanting someone to die like Bratling just did. :ohmy:

[Heyes]

He tried that, behind Cindy's back and look what it got him. It was eventually released, he was forced to testify against his only daughter and now his relationship with both of his children and his wife and probably her entire extended family are in jeopardy. I think the price is too high to pay for anyone at this point.

the price is too high? justice for an innocent baby? really?
George should just man up.

[Narcissist71]

Can't sleep. :sad:

I think if George had taken any pills he would have had to have been transported by ambulance due to liability issues and they would have had to monitor his vital signs.

jmo


So there is a link that he wasn't either transported or while being transported that his vital signs weren't monitored.....

I think a police cruiser moves faster than an ambulance if there was an emergency. JMO

But if you have a link, that would be cool...if not it's cool too.

ETA...plus most psych wards are in hospitals......at least in my area.

[Venus]

He tried that, behind Cindy's back and look what it got him. It was eventually released, he was forced to testify against his only daughter and now his relationship with both of his children and his wife and probably her entire extended family are in jeopardy. I think the price is too high to pay for anyone at this point.

I could care less if telling the truth jeopardized my relationship with every person I knew. At least he would be standing up for Caylee. Lord knows someone from that family needs to.

And telling the truth might keep him out of motels, writing 6-8 page letters.

The truth shall set you free.

[Heyes]

I am asking you, because you said the media's focus mattered.

To them. They are the ones that keep whining about the media, not I

[Venus]

ITA......but why did they have to stabilize him in the ER?


Stabilize = evaluate.

[Narcissist71]

But he did know he has a GPS on his phone and he does know that LE can ping and locate.

Hey, I don't know anything for sure, I'm just speculating like everyone else. That's why I say imo, or I think...

Lol, at least you didn't accuse me of wanting someone to die like Bratling just did. :ohmy:


Most people know that (well maybe not, most people here).....doesn't mean they really think of that....never tried to commit suicide, but for some reason I'm not sure that would cross a person's mind that was going to do it.

[mosey?]

It also takes the focus off casey, the doc dumps, cindy's reaction at work etc.
also the anthonys are not ones to be silenced. That letter will get out.
I believe that might also be their motivation.I think Georges attempt was in direct reaction to the doc dump. Its released publicly when defense gets it, so George probably learned when we did. The information from the last dump would tip the stronges over the edge. (especially the person who arguably love Caylee the most)

[happygert]

What is an officers definition of drugs. Does that include valid perscription meds?

Turn it on and listen....Thats all I can tell you... bottle empty no drugs no weapons....Take that as you will......I guess you could call them and ask....I take it as nothing zip, zero, nada, zero........

If he had taken something they would have to call someone to make sure he was stable enough to transport....If not and something had happened they would be liable.........

NO suicide atempt......

IT was a line of BS....Plain and simple....I'll never believe anything other then that......ANOTHER SCAM!!! JMHO.......

[i_pickle]

I didnt say you wanted him to die. I said he would have to die for you to believe it was genuine. Because according to you if he really wanted to die he would have.You're twisting what I've said but I'm done with you. You clearly want to argue with someone...anyone, about something...anything.

All one has to do is scroll back and see how you communicate (and I use that term loosely) with other posters. :seeya:

[mosey?]

But he did know he has a GPS on his phone and he does know that LE can ping and locate.

Hey, I don't know anything for sure, I'm just speculating like everyone else. That's why I say imo, or I think...

Lol, at least you didn't accuse me of wanting someone to die like Bratling just did. :ohmy:No, not me. I dont want anyone to die, and assume others dont either. At least not the innocent. (OK I might do a dance when I read Caseys obit.)

[Venus]

The time to stand up for Caylee was when there was a possibility that she was alive. That time is long gone. No one can redeem themselves now by suddenly standing up for Caylee because it will not change a thing.

I disagree.

It won't change that Caylee is dead, no.. but it is the right thing to do.

[happygert]

I don't think so. Like I said in my posts for those reasons alone I believe EMT's would have to me called to transport.

jmo

Yes they would have....Daughters fiance is on rescue squad and fire dept.. a Police officer would not transport if the person had taken something..

[5boxersmom]

So there is a link that he wasn't either transported or while being transported that his vital signs weren't monitored.....

I think a police cruiser moves faster than an ambulance if there was an emergency. JMO

But if you have a link, that would be cool...if not it's cool too.

ETA...plus most psych wards are in hospitals......at least in my area.

He was driven to the ER by the Police Chief.

So why wouldn't the LE transport everyone if that was the case?

jmo
Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood transported George Anthony to a Daytona Beach hospital for psychiatric evaluation after he was found early Friday morning
http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.html

[happygert]

He was driven to the ER by the Police Chief.

So why wouldn't the LE transport everyone if that was the case?

jmo
Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood transported George Anthony to a Daytona Beach hospital for psychiatric evaluation after he was found early Friday morning
http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.html

Exactly ! no need for ambulances, emt's or rescue squads..

[Narcissist71]

Why does the media's focus matter though except to feed our inquiring minds?


Good question.....why does the media who doesn't report on the thousands of other missing cases.....because they reported on something else.....somehow be intrepreted as an injustice for Caylee?

[Narcissist71]

He was driven to the ER by the Police Chief.

So why wouldn't the LE transport everyone if that was the case?

jmo
Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood transported George Anthony to a Daytona Beach hospital for psychiatric evaluation after he was found early Friday morning
http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.html

So he was driven by the Police Chief.....is the Chief's car big enough for more than two people?

ETA....as I asked....you have a link that George's Vital Signs weren't monitored? Also, as I stated, at least in this area the Psych Ward is at the hospital....so how far was the hospital?

[Heyes]

The time to stand up for Caylee was when there was a possibility that she was alive. That time is long gone. No one can redeem themselves now by suddenly standing up for Caylee because it will not change a thing.


this is the time to make sure her murderer stays in prison. Even george should fear casey getting out and getting pregnant again. But it seems in that family saving face is more important than truth and justice for their innocent grandbaby.

[i_pickle]

Most people know that (well maybe not, most people here).....doesn't mean they really think of that....never tried to commit suicide, but for some reason I'm not sure that would cross a person's mind that was going to do it.I never attempted suicide either but know people that have.

I think it was a cry for help because he told others what he was about to do. He also knows about pings because it's been reported that LE is/has used it on Casey's phone. If I know about it via the media, surely he does.

JMO

[Venus]

So he was driven by the Police Chief.....is the Chief's car big enough for more than two people?

Does the Chief's car have a defibrillator, IV tubing, IV fluids, etc in it?

[i_pickle]

this is the time to make sure her murderer stays in prison. Even george should fear casey getting out and getting pregnant again. But it seems in that family saving face is more important than truth and justice for their innocent grandbaby.It does seem that way.

Odd that someone would suggest that it's too late to tell the truth and imply that it's okay to lie for someone that murdered a baby that he loved. :confused:

JMO

[Heyes]

It does seem that way.

Odd that someone would suggest that it's too late to tell the truth and imply that it's okay to lie for someone that murdered a baby that he loved. :confused:

JMO

That must be the
"backwards sort of way"
casey was referring to.

[5boxersmom]

So he was driven by the Police Chief.....is the Chief's car big enough for more than two people?

ETA....as I asked....you have a link that George's Vital Signs weren't monitored? Also, as I stated, at least in this area the Psych Ward is at the hospital....so how far was the hospital?

No he drives a two seater. :rolleyes:

Here are the images. Who said the Psych Ward wasn't at a the hospital? No I.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18546214/detail.html

Who would have monitored his vitals? The EMTs did not transport him.

jmo

[Narcissist71]

He was driven to the ER by the Police Chief.

So why wouldn't the LE transport everyone if that was the case?

jmo
Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood transported George Anthony to a Daytona Beach hospital for psychiatric evaluation after he was found early Friday morning
http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.html

Do you have a link that LE in that area doesn't transport someone to the hospital in similar situations? As opposed to doing anything else?

How many officers responded to the call to find George?

How many officers that have the required training?

Just interested.....no disrespect, just curious if you have more info.

[mosey?]

He was driven to the ER by the Police Chief.

So why wouldn't the LE transport everyone if that was the case?

jmo
Daytona Beach Police Chief Michael Chitwood transported George Anthony to a Daytona Beach hospital for psychiatric evaluation after he was found early Friday morning
http://www.wesh.com/news/18546075/detail.htmlFairfax is only about 3 miles from the motel. Straight shot down Hwy 1 to Speedway Blvd (Hwy 92) Pretty fast trip from the looks of it.

[Narcissist71]

No he drives a two seater. :rolleyes:

Here are the images. Who said the Psych Ward wasn't at a the hospital? No I.
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18546214/detail.html

Who would have monitored his vitals? The EMTs did not transport him.

jmo


I see more than two people there.....not just George and the Chief

you are saying that someone might not have been in the vehicle that may be LE that has EMT training or more?

Seriously.....someone that is an EMT in the area might have responded....at least they do that in this area.....don't have to be working, just on call....you respond depending on location.

[i_pickle]

I am not twisting what you said, I will quote for you though and highlight it if you have forgotten...LOL, I'm tired but not blind.

If you want to interpret that statement to mean that I want him to die, be my guest. I already told you it rolled off of me and into the crapper where it belongs but I guess you you didn't comprehend.

Would gigantic fonts help?

[Heyes]

does anyone want to venture a guess when, if ever, george finally gets pizzed at "gorgeous" for causing all this pain?

[5boxersmom]

Do you have a link that LE in that area doesn't transport someone to the hospital in similar situations? As opposed to doing anything else?

How many officers responded to the call to find George?

How many officers that have the required training?

Just interested.....no disrespect, just curious if you have more info.

It's common sense. If someone OD's on drugs you call the EMTs. That's what they are for. LE doesn't transport people whose lives are in danger. They call an ambulance. What if someone died in the car of LE because they didn't call an ambulance? It is protocol.

jmo

[Lapis]

I see more than two people there.....not just George and the Chief

you are saying that someone might not have been in the vehicle that may be LE that has EMT training or more?

Seriously.....someone that is an EMT in the area might have responded....at least they do that in this area.....don't have to be working, just on call....you respond depending on location.

And maybe that was the only way they could get him to agree to go. Why create a scene when its faster and easier to get him to the hospital that way. We are talking about the Chief not just some patrolman. IMO

[mosey?]

Does the Chief's car have a defibrillator, IV tubing, IV fluids, etc in it?At 60mph with lights and siren, it probably took less than 5 min to the hospital. The chief probably knew the location of the EMTs and made an executive decision

[5boxersmom]

That car has a backseat. There are no 2 seater police cars. :rolleyes:

I know that. That's why I put the :rolleyes: Of course there is room for more then 2 people in his car. That's what I was ask.

jmo

[Narcissist71]

I never attempted suicide either but know people that have.

I think it was a cry for help because he told others what he was about to do. He also knows about pings because it's been reported that LE is/has used it on Casey's phone. If I know about it via the media, surely he does.

JMO


I agree he probably "KNEW" that they could......but the question is.....did he even bother to "THINK" about it. Just saying it might not have crossed his mind since it's likely he was "THINKING" about Caylee and joining her.

Not saying you are wrong....just wondering if it possible he wasn't thinking about external things like that as opposed to internal feelings.....

And yes it could have just been a cry for help.

[5boxersmom]

If George was coherent and he denied taking any pills the police chief can make a judgment call obviously, and he did exactly that! If George had died on the way to the hospital I am sure there would be a big brouhaha about his negligence but he didnt die so it really is a non issue because it proves nothing.

How many of LE is going to put their job on the line to transport someone who may taken pills and die in their car? That's why there is EMTs and Ambulances.

jmo

[Venus]

At 60mph with lights and siren, it probably took less than 5 min to the hospital. The chief probably knew the location of the EMTs and made an executive decision

Like 5Boxersmom said.. it's against protocol. It put the city of Daytona at a huge liability if George had taken any drugs.

Even the Chief has to answer to someone. I seriously doubt he put the city of Daytona at risk for a lawsuit just to make Mr. Anthony happy.

[Narcissist71]

It's common sense. If someone OD's on drugs you call the EMTs. That's what they are for. LE doesn't transport people whose lives are in danger. They call an ambulance. What if someone died in the car of LE because they didn't call an ambulance? It is protocol.

jmo

Wow, no that is not common sense....

Adding....LE is part of the Emergency Response System......

Goodness.....LE are trained for more than arresting people

[Venus]

If George was coherent and he denied taking any pills the police chief can make a judgment call obviously, and he did exactly that! If George had died on the way to the hospital I am sure there would be a big brouhaha about his negligence but he didnt die so it really is a non issue because it proves nothing.

And we all know that George is capable of lying. So, this could be exactly what happened.

[5boxersmom]

Like 5Boxersmom said.. it's against protocol. It put the city of Daytona at a huge liability if George had taken any drugs.

Even the Chief has to answer to someone. I seriously doubt he put the city of Daytona at risk for a lawsuit just to make Mr. Anthony happy.

Thank you. :biggrin:

[mosey?]

Like 5Boxersmom said.. it's against protocol. It put the city of Daytona at a huge liability if George had taken any drugs.

Even the Chief has to answer to someone. I seriously doubt he put the city of Daytona at risk for a lawsuit just to make Mr. Anthony happy.Sometimes faster is better. Is there any situation that would warrant the Police Chiefs decision?

[5boxersmom]

Wow, no that is not common sense....

Adding....LE is part of the Emergency Response System......

Goodness.....LE are trained for more than arresting people

Then why have EMTs? Just let LE transport everyone.

jmo

[i_pickle]

I have said repeatedly I did not say that, the fact that you keep repeating it will never make it true. Maybe you feel guilty and are self imposing that accusation on yourself or something?Lol, this just keeps getting better and better. I better put you on ignore before you accuse me of killing Caylee.

Your psychoanalysis is amusing.

[mosey?]

Thank you. :biggrin:It reminds me of "House"
"Blast protocol, I'm here to SAVE LIVES!"

[5boxersmom]

Are you suggesting this has never been done before? Police do it every single day when someone is in custody under arrest! They do it for many more reasons than suicide attempts!

They do what? If they think someone has taken pills they call an ambulance to transport them to check them out before they are taken to jail.

jmo

[Narcissist71]

I agree --

Attorney Conway said law enforcement told him George Anthony had consumed some of the prescribed medication and was drinking alcohol while in the motel room.

However, doesn't George have the right to refuse an ambulance. I watched an intervention show that one gal wanted no medical help (after taking a bunch of pills). The EMT's had to wait until she passed out before they could take over. I saw George, and he walked calmly to the car.

note: All conscious persons have the right to refuse treatment/transport unless certified as incapable of acting in their own best interests by a G.P. and Consultant Psychiatrist

All unconscious patients are considered to have given implied consent.

more info here:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-george-anthony-caylee-012309,0,7934495.story?page=2

There you go, and I bet that LE had someone there making sure to monitor his vitals and such.....LE are trained to do more than just arrest people.....or at least I hope. ;)

Adding.....of course there is that Baker (or whatever) Law in Florida...when they can take you regardless. ;)

[mosey?]

Then why have EMTs? Just let LE transport everyone.

jmoBut it wasnt just anyone. It was the police chief (no dufus there) and George Anthony

[Venus]

So you have a link to Daytona Police Department protocol?

Nope. Just common sense. And a good bit of medical and LE knowledge.

[mosey?]

They do what? If they think someone has taken pills they call an ambulance to transport them to check them out before they are taken to jail.

jmoBoxer, can you think of any hypothetical that would justify what the Cheif did?

[cherish]

Ok so were going to take an EMPTY PILL BOTTLE a 12 pack of beer, burger and fries and order a pizza, write a suicide note saying casey's innocent and her friend did it. then call everyone and tell them your committing suicide.. go to hospital and not be put in the psychiatric ward but in regular room.... NOPE not buying this BS..

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Who said he's not in the psych ward? What is a regular room? Rooms in psych wards are usually regular rooms.

[i_pickle]

I agree he probably "KNEW" that they could......but the question is.....did he even bother to "THINK" about it. Just saying it might not have crossed his mind since it's likely he was "THINKING" about Caylee and joining her.

Not saying you are wrong....just wondering if it possible he wasn't thinking about external things like that as opposed to internal feelings.....

And yes it could have just been a cry for help.I understand what you're saying. Anything is possible.

These are all just opinions. Only George knows what went on in his mind and what his intentions were.

[Narcissist71]

Then why have EMTs? Just let LE transport everyone.

jmo

It's kind of like Triage......LE will see if they can handle the situation......if they can handle it and transport they will.......if it would take EMT's longer to get there as oppose to LE transporting George to the hospital.....

If however the situation was different and LE wasn't prepared or have the tools to handle the situation, they may do what they have to until EMT's were there to take over the situation.

[5boxersmom]

Boxer, can you think of any hypothetical that would justify what the Cheif did?

Here is my take on it. Brad Conway said George took some medication. That could mean one pill. And drank some alcohol. Maybe the EMT's were there and checked him out. If they were it was not reported in any link I have saw. Maybe George refused the EMT's and the Chief talked him in to going with him. But if he had taken a lot of pills then he would have had to be transported and monitored by EMT's. I don't think the Chief would have driven him if his life was in danger.

jmo

[Narcissist71]

I understand what you're saying. Anything is possible.

These are all just opinions. Only George knows what went on in his mind and what his intentions were.

Yep I agree.

[Narcissist71]

Because George would only go in the LE car, there wasn't much they could do but wait for him to pass out (to put him in an ambulance)

He was also making chit-chat the entire way to the hospital.

LE would never have made such a decision if george couldn't walk or talk, or seemed in distress. We also don't know how much of the meds he took (which i'm sure LE did).

I'm on the LE's side on this one.

Peace,

Again, it's basically a triage type situation.....yes if George wasn't breathing....I'm sure they would have called for an ambulance while given CPR or whatever they were trained to do in such a situation.....

but that wasn't the situation....and I'm sure they monitored his condition while driving him to the hospital.

so yes...

Pe@ce. ;)

[desmom]

Sometimes faster is better. Is there any situation that would warrant the Police Chiefs decision?

The police chief spoke with George, George walked to the chief's car and according to google maps the drive to the hospital is less than 10 minutes.

What we do not know if Geoge told LE he took the pills minutes or hours before they found him, what pills he took, if there were EMTs on site, if George said he would only cooperate with the chief or if the chief has any type of medical training.

Sometimes a judgment call has to be made. A judgment call is not always the right one and can lead to disaster, BUT following the book can also lead to disaster.

IMO, the chief made a judgment call based on George's ability to communicate, his motor skills and the drive time to the hospital.

I am glad George was found and it did not end in another tragedy.

jmo

[Narcissist71]

Nope. Just common sense. And a good bit of medical and LE knowledge.


Well...okay.....as much as people like to fall back on "common sense" it's fallible.

[mosey?]

Here is my take on it. Brad Conway said George took some medication. That could mean one pill. And drank some alcohol. Maybe the EMT's were there and checked him out. If they were it was not reported in any link I have saw. Maybe George refused the EMT's and the Chief talked him in to going with him. But if he had taken a lot of pills then he would have had to be transported and monitored by EMT's. I don't think the Chief would have driven him if his life was in danger.

jmoBrad Conway said George took meds as in took them from the house. He had no idea if George injested them. The Chief also surmised that George ate the pills that were in the empty bottles and drank 8 beers (12 pack box in garbage, 4 in fridge)
The police Cheif probably dispached the EMTs and found their 1020 to be 10 minutes out. If he drove George himself, they could be at Halifax in 3 minutes. If true, it would have been a wise executive decision meant to save a life, and very justified

[mosey?]

The police chief spoke with George, George walked to the chief's car and according to google maps the drive to the hospital is less than 10 minutes.

What we do not know if Geoge told LE he took the pills minutes or hours before they found him, what pills he took, if there EMTs on site, if George said he would only cooperate with the chief or if the chief has any type of medical training.

Sometimes a judgment call has to be made. A judgment call is not always the right one and can lead to disaster, BUT following the book can also lead to disaster.

IMO, the chief made a judgment call based on George's ability to communicate, his motor skills and the drive time to the hospital.

I am glad George was found and it did not end in another tragedy.

jmoI totally agree, desmom

[5boxersmom]

Brad Conway said George took meds as in took them from the house. He had no idea if George injested them. The Chief also surmised that George ate the pills that were in the empty bottles and drank 8 beers (12 pack box in garbage, 4 in fridge)
The police Cheif probably dispached the EMTs and found their 1020 to be 10 minutes out. If he drove George himself, they could be at Halifax in 3 minutes. If true, it would have been a wise executive decision meant to save a life, and very justified

Attorney Conway said law enforcement told him George Anthony had consumed some of the prescribed medication and was drinking alcohol while in the motel room.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-george-anthony-caylee-012309,0,7934495.story?page=2

[cherish]

It's kind of like Triage......LE will see if they can handle the situation......if they can handle it and transport they will.......if it would take EMT's longer to get there as oppose to LE transporting George to the hospital.....

If however the situation was different and LE wasn't prepared or have the tools to handle the situation, they may do what they have to until EMT's were there to take over the situation.

Exactly, they would have assessed the situation first. He was coherent so they probably asked him if he took anything. LE described him as melancholy so I imagine they talked to him and he was cooperative.

[Narcissist71]

Attorney Conway said law enforcement told him George Anthony had consumed some of the prescribed medication and was drinking alcohol while in the motel room.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-george-anthony-caylee-012309,0,7934495.story?page=2

Even more support for what ?Mosey said.

Besides not knowing, the officers were told.

[mosey?]

Attorney Conway said law enforcement told him George Anthony had consumed some of the prescribed medication and was drinking alcohol while in the motel room.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-bk-george-anthony-caylee-012309,0,7934495.story?page=2Oh sorry, I thought you were reffering to the 911 call.
I stand corrected

[cherish]

My sister was in on a 5150 for 72 hours and it's not pretty. There is such a thing as a padded cell for those who threaten to take their lives and you wear this blue type of dress (which resembles a robe with no ties). You sleep on a padded floor with a blanket. No underwear, no socks - no nothing.

Now that doesn't sound too pleasant to me. This info came from my sister, so I don't have a link.

I just hope they gave George plenty of sleeping meds to get through the night. But no, in the mental unit, there are no "regular rooms" and all are private. No one is going to die under their watch!

Best,

Well I suppose that's possible. That wasn't my experience at all.

[5boxersmom]

Oh sorry, I thought you were reffering to the 911 call.
I stand corrected

But it doesn't say how much meds. So it could have just been one or two pills.

[mosey?]

But it doesn't say how much meds. So it could have just been one or two pills.He also credited LE for saving George's life. That, to me, means he took many.

[Narcissist71]

And he had 8 beers along with the meds. If I had 8 beers and meds (out of the 12 pack, 4 were found in the fridge), I would most certainly be passed out. I wonder if he has a "problem". Do we know how long he was in the room?

Best,

I don't know about a problem....but there is a significant problem with LE and alcohol.....compared to the general population.....

so it's possible....

I'd rather not speculate....not saying other people can't speculate since there are statistics. IMO ;)

[5boxersmom]

He also credited LE for saving George's life. That, to me, means he took many.

I took it to mean how fast they found him.

jmo

[5boxersmom]

But does it matter at all how many he took? We already know that you are not supposed to drink with medications like that or it could kill you.

No it doesn't matter but that could have been why the Chief drove him instead of calling EMT's.

jmo

[cherish]

He also credited LE for saving George's life. That, to me, means he took many.

We don't know how many he took, but why does that matter? If you take pills and it doesn't kill you, does that mean it doesn't count?

It's his state of despair that matters.

[mosey?]

And he had 8 beers along with the meds. If I had 8 beers and meds (out of the 12 pack, 4 were found in the fridge), I would most certainly be passed out. I wonder if he has a "problem". Do we know how long he was in the room?

Best,
The motel staff said he checked in in the evening, dont know what time. He was found at 2am. Probably 7 hours or so. Thats about a beer an hour. Legally sober, if so. Or maybe he chugged them all, I dunno.

[mosey?]

We don't know how many he took, but why does that matter? If you take pills and it doesn't kill you, does that mean it doesn't count?

It's his state of despair that matters.Yeah, it matters. If he took the number of blood-pressure meds prescribed, it would have a different "message" than taking 10x as many.

[Narcissist71]

The motel staff said he checked in in the evening, dont know what time. He was found at 2am. Probably 7 hours or so. Thats about a beer an hour. Legally sober, if so. Or maybe he chugged them all, I dunno.


If he drank the beer on average over the time he was there........

maybe he didn't drink when he checked in......maybe he was drinking all day, but we only know about the beer he decided to buy and bring to the motel.

[desmom]

We don't know how many he took, but why does that matter? If you take pills and it doesn't kill you, does that mean it doesn't count?

It's his state of despair that matters.

I agree Cherish.

George spoke of suicide in the past during one his interviews. LE removed a gun from the spare tire wheel of his car.

I think the recent doc dump and planning Caylee's funeral services pushed George to that edge. Sometimes one can only handle so much pain and they just want it go away.

I cannot imagine the pain and turmoil in this family's life for the last six months. I know a lot of the things that have happened is because of their own words and actions.

IMO, things could have been handled differently. I wish they would have hired a reputable spokesperson in the beginning and learned to say "no comment". I really think things would have been different and the public would have a little more compassion for the family.

jmo

[cherish]

Yeah, it matters. If he took the number of blood-pressure meds prescribed, it would have a different "message" than taking 10x as many.

But, George did not call LE. All we know for sure is that he checked into a motel, with a twelve pack and drank 8, and he sent text some messages.

[Narcissist71]

Yeah, it matters. If he took the number of blood-pressure meds prescribed, it would have a different "message" than taking 10x as many.


Yes and No....

I mean if he killed himself (which he didn't) with 2 pills or 20 pills......it wouldn't matter because the outcome is the same....

but yes if he swallowed 20 pills as oppose to 2 pills, you "might" be able to say that he "might" not have really wanted to commit suicide....

but you really can't say for a fact....just "might"

[zinnia]

George might have only wanted to get smashing drunk and forget about it all but even that is not possible with being under the media microscope. It becomes a suicide attempt; he is put under observation and the drama goes on.
I'm sure the doc dumps just were too much for him; even if by some wild stretch of imagination Casey is being framed and I don't think thats true the picture of the duck tape and heart would tear ones guts to pieces.

[mosey?]

But, George did not call LE. All we know for sure is that he checked into a motel, with a twelve pack and drank 8, and he sent text some messages.
Sorry, I dont understand what your saying. George said he was suicidal, and there were emply bottles of meds. If he took the prescribed dose, it was a hollow threat meant as a cry for help. If he took enough for an overdose, he meant to kill himself. In this end, the number of pills matter.
Its all about his intent

[Narcissist71]

Hi Narcissist --

A woman never gives away her weight, or her age :) But I will tell you I'm 45, and a little on the hefty side :(

Anyway, I answered my own question. George Anthony had checked in around 6 p.m. to 7 p.m and was found at 2 AM. So if he drank 8 beers, that would have been 1 an hour, and he was probably pretty sober.

Here's an interesting read:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/newsjournalonline/breakingnews/george012309.htm

Here's a snipit:

When Daytona Beach Police Chief Mike Chitwood found George Anthony in a room at the Hawaii Motel on South Ridgewood Avenue at 1:57 this morning, there were no pills and no weapon.

There were, however, two empty pill bottles with no labels on them in the in the trash can, Chitwood said.

There was also a note, police said. But the letter George Anthony wrote while he was in Room 106, did not indicate clearly whether the grandfather wanted to end it all, sources who saw the note said.

Best,


Again you know he didn't drink anything before he checked in?

How long was the last person to see him?

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised he was drinking for a bit longer than when he checked in.....especially if he disappeared quite a bit longer than the drive from Orlando to Daytona which is just over an hour when I drove it. (I drive the speed limit) ;)

ETA....lots of places to drink in Daytona....yep know for a fact...personally

[5boxersmom]

About George saying stuff in the letter about Casey's friends. I wonder if she is telling them through letters from Baez that they are to blame for what happen to Caylee? Why would George still be saying this they have all been cleared by LE.

[mosey?]

About George saying stuff in the letter about Casey's friends. I wonder if she is telling them through letters from Baez that they are to blame for what happen to Caylee? Why would George still be saying this they have all been cleared by LE.Yeah, that was pretty flippin weird. My thoughts immediately went to Tony L.
George probably blames him, for what he sees, as his daughter's personality change. Tony changed his princess to an evil ogre with his bad influence, drinking and drug-filled lifestyle. Remember how sick he got when looking at the Fusion pics?

[Narcissist71]

You're right - I don't know. Just going by the reports thus far. Would be interested in seeing his blood alcohol level upon check in at the hospital -- but we'll probably never see that.

I agree.....seems unlikely this will be made public knowledge.

Plead the 5th about whether I'd like to see it. ;)

[cherish]

George might have only wanted to get smashing drunk and forget about it all but even that is not possible with being under the media microscope. It becomes a suicide attempt; he is put under observation and the drama goes on.
I'm sure the doc dumps just were too much for him; even if by some wild stretch of imagination Casey is being framed and I don't think thats true the picture of the duck tape and heart would tear ones guts to pieces.

Right, I can only assume that his mind is spinning out of control right now. Maybe he just needed to get away from it all to think. Maybe he feels so bad that he was or is considering suicide. I can't blame him for that. LE didn't call paramedics but they did recognize that he needed help and they helped him.

And maybe like you said, he only wanted to get good and drunk, and I can't blame him for that either.

[Regina.Lampert]

Good morning everyone.

Drew Petrameux on Nancy Grace, reported last night that cynthia rolled to the hospital to visit george yesterday and that she was "angry." Wonder what she's "angry" about now?

Also, yesterday conway stated that he doesn't keep the anthonys up to date on all the gory details (heart sticker, duct tape) that's his job to know those things. Anybody falling for that one?

IMO, the anthonys follow this case with as much devotion as all of us, they know about the duct tape and sticker and certainly have a copy of the search warrant given them on 12/11.

[mosey?]

I agree.....seems unlikely this will be made public knowledge.

Plead the 5th about whether I'd like to see it. ;)I have no problem admitting I'd like to see it. If we were the kind of people that were comfortable with unanswered questions, we wouldn't be posting here...

[cherish]

Sorry, I dont understand what your saying. George said he was suicidal, and there were emply bottles of meds. If he took the prescribed dose, it was a hollow threat meant as a cry for help. If he took enough for an overdose, he meant to kill himself. In this end, the number of pills matter.
Its all about his intent

A cry for help is not a hollow threat.

[zinnia]

Right, I can only assume that his mind is spinning out of control right now. Maybe he just needed to get away from it all to think. Maybe he feels so bad that he was or is considering suicide. I can't blame him for that. LE didn't call paramedics but they did recognize that he needed help and they helped him.

And maybe like you said, he only wanted to get good and drunk, and I can't blame him for that either.

How terrible to not recognize in your own daughter who lived with you that she could do something to your grandbaby and not even react? As a parent to realize that you had not seen it nor prevented it would be so overwhelming. Blaming anyone else besides her is a coping mechinism. I'm sure Cindy made it clear that some/all of Caseys problems were because of something he did/didnot do.

[mosey?]

A cry for help is not a hollow threat.No, a hollow threat is a cry for help. It means he didnt want to die, just wanted things to change in his life.
A threat is different than an attempt.

[Narcissist71]

Good morning everyone.

Drew Petrameux on Nancy Grace, reported last night that cynthia rolled to the hospital to visit george yesterday and that she was "angry." Wonder what she's "angry" about now?

Also, yesterday conway stated that he doesn't keep the anthonys up to date on all the gory details (heart sticker, duct tape) that's his job to know those things. Anybody falling for that one?

IMO, the anthonys follow this case with as much devotion as all of us, they know about the duct tape and sticker and certainly have a copy of the search warrant given them on 12/11.

I'm sure that they have the search warrants....of course....not sure that they have watched much tv since the body was found....

not sure that Jose or Casey have informed them of the recent developments.....

How are you Scampi?

[cherish]

Good morning everyone.

Drew Petrameux on Nancy Grace, reported last night that cynthia rolled to the hospital to visit george yesterday and that she was "angry." Wonder what she's "angry" about now?

Also, yesterday conway stated that he doesn't keep the anthonys up to date on all the gory details (heart sticker, duct tape) that's his job to know those things. Anybody falling for that one?

IMO, the anthonys follow this case with as much devotion as all of us, they know about the duct tape and sticker and certainly have a copy of the search warrant given them on 12/11.

Cindy's angry because, "HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO ME"!
(Sorry, I can just picture Cindy screaming at George)

[Narcissist71]

I have no problem admitting I'd like to see it. If we were the kind of people that were comfortable with unanswered questions, we wouldn't be posting here...


Well I'm okay with not knowing....

George's lastest situation doesn't affect my feelings about the evidence in the case against Casey at this point.

I hate to say this, but it's possible that the defense will now point the finger at George with his lastest situation.....he picked up the car, the smell, tried to look in the back, and blah blah blah.

ETA....thank goodness that he didn't actually go through with it.....the defense would have had a field day IMO

[Myka]

I was googling and ended up on this site from a Hollywood Private Investigator : Lawrence Olmstead

http://www.hollywoodpi.info/cayleeanthony.html

He's analyzing Kronk and Casey Anthony and see if there is a relationship between them. Kronk was also arrested before for check fraud at Florida :

Link here : http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=73801&cat=14

Kronk also has a website of his own : http://www.rkronk.com/


Good Morning All,
Big time lurker, first time poster. I have been following yall for months and you guys are great!!

We talk about this case all of the time at work and I wanted to touch on this Kronk/Casey connection

tons of theories out there......most are as wild as a monkey on PCP in the middle of a hurricane but here was a crazy theory a co-worker came up with:

Kronk's wife was sick ( cancer?), he "picked" up Casey at a "call girl" service. We know she never had any money and some say she could have been putting her meat out on the street. Kronk and Casey hook up, he is a regular "john" for her. She gets prego by Kronk. Casey tells Kronk. Kronk tells her to keep her mouth shut.......both say they don't want the baby. She has the baby

She Kills Caylee, Kronk says YES!, for he didn't want the baby anyways, then by some sick way he gets involved w/ moving the body. He is ridden w/ guilt so he reports seeing something 3 times in Aug, he even says on one of the 911 calls "I'm not saying it's Caylee"......no one cares about his 3 call ins. Months pass by and now it's Dec. He sees the way the case has been a 1000 ring circus in the media. The guilt it just eating at him, so he goes back to the site. he calls again.......she is found

I did say it was a crazy theory a co worker came up w/, but you have to admit, something isn't right w/ Kronk. Us co workers all agree that Kronk WILL NOT come out of this smelling like a rose

~Myka~

[cherish]

No, a hollow threat is a cry for help. It means he didnt want to die, just wanted things to change in his life.
A threat is different than an attempt.

Maybe you see a hollow threat as half empty, I see it as half full. They say if people threaten suicide you should take it seriously.

[JackiBlu]

You didnt say it, but you clearly implied it repeatedly. You know you did!


Bratlings no way was that implied by Happy....NO WAY and you owe an apology for that.

[n/t]

Good morning everyone.

Drew Petrameux on Nancy Grace, reported last night that cynthia rolled to the hospital to visit george yesterday and that she was "angry." Wonder what she's "angry" about now?

Also, yesterday conway stated that he doesn't keep the anthonys up to date on all the gory details (heart sticker, duct tape) that's his job to know those things. Anybody falling for that one?

IMO, the anthonys follow this case with as much devotion as all of us, they know about the duct tape and sticker and certainly have a copy of the search warrant given them on 12/11.


Good Morning scampi and all,

I just can't get the jewelry off my mind. Why would she ask George to go pick out jewelry for Caylee? Could it be Cindy has no clue that Caylee's remains are skeletonized but George does? Remember when George told LE that he wanted to be the one to tell Cindy when they found Caylee's remains? Maybe she is being left in the dark about the truth.

[mosey?]

Maybe you see a hollow threat as half empty, I see it as half full. They say if people threaten suicide you should take it seriously.I would take any cry for help seriously. Means a life is in peril.
If noone responded to a suicide threat, too many would become suicide attempts, which in turn, would become too many suicides
But I dont understand your half-full/half-empty analogy

[Regina.Lampert]

I'm sure that they have the search warrants....of course....not sure that they have watched much tv since the body was found....

not sure that Jose or Casey have informed them of the recent developments.....

How are you Scampi?

Hello Mr. Narcissist, I'm fine and you? Sorry, I just don't see cynthia anthony as the type of person who wants to be kept in the dark. She wants answers and she knows she isn't getting them from the odious creature. I bet she is glued to the set and reading all articles.

[Narcissist71]

Hello Mr. Narcissist, I'm fine and you? Sorry, I just don't see cynthia anthony as the type of person who wants to be kept in the dark. She wants answers and she knows she isn't getting them from the odious creature. I bet she is glued to the set and reading all articles.

Quite possible, but it's possible that they haven't watched much T.V. lately.

ETA....doing really well, thanks for asking Scampi. :)

[Regina.Lampert]

Cindy's angry because, "HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO ME"!
(Sorry, I can just picture Cindy screaming at George)

I can see her doing that. Or, angry at the public or prosecutors or the media or any other entity she perceives as putting them in the position in which they find themselves. Everyone except the mother of the year they have for a daughter, accused murderer casey anthony.

imo

[Regina.Lampert]

Quite possible, but it's possible that they haven't watch much T.V. lately.

ETA....doing really well, thanks for asking Scampi. :)

Odd, all the color seems to have drained out of me in your quoted post.

[cherish]

I would take any cry for help seriously. Means a life is in peril.
If noone responded to a suicide threat, too many would become suicide attempts, which in turn, would become too many suicides
But I dont understand your half-full/half-empty analogy

You referred to this as a hollow threat. I'm just saying that a suicide threat should not be taken as insincere.

[farrahrani]

I was googling and ended up on this site from a Hollywood Private Investigator : Lawrence Olmstead

http://www.hollywoodpi.info/cayleeanthony.html

He's analyzing Kronk and Casey Anthony and see if there is a relationship between them. Kronk was also arrested before for check fraud at Florida :

Link here : http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=73801&cat=14

Kronk also has a website of his own : http://www.rkronk.com/

We don't know who that Lawrence is, he doesn't even know how to spell in some of his prior entries, and we don't know how he managed to insert himself into this. If he is merely a lookielou, or someone after potential business, or even somehow connected to one of Casey's defense team. When he shows some psychologist, forensic psychologist, or behavior analyst credentials I'll read his ''analyzing'' :cursing:

I don't believe for a minute that is Kronk's website. Its posted in third person. And any moron with a few bucks to spend can create a website with someone else's name in the url. :tonguewag:

[KKKKKKatie]

We don't know who that Lawrence is, he doesn't even know how to spell in some of his prior entries, and we don't know how he managed to insert himself into this. If he is merely a lookielou, or someone after potential business, or even somehow connected to one of Casey's defense team. When he shows some psychologist, forensic psychologist, or behavior analyst credentials I'll read his ''analyzing'' :cursing:

I don't believe for a minute that is Kronk's website. Its posted in third person. And any moron with a few bucks to spend can create a website with someone else's name in the url. :tonguewag:

IMO He is just another hanger-oner looking for his 15 minutes :mad: