View Full Version : 11/6 update--Baby Grace Trial [MOM GUILTY/LWOP] [Stepfather GUILTY/LWOP]
SoggyBayou
01-20-2009, 07:59 PM
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou090120_jj_baby-grace-trial-begins-wednesday.12bf5111.html?npc
04:30 PM CST on Tuesday, January 20, 2009
HOUSTON—The trial of a mother accused of murdering her toddler is scheduled to begin Wednesday.
Prosecutors say Kimberly Trenor and her husband, Royce Zeigler, killed 2-year-old Riley Ann Sawyers (http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/khou080722_jj_babygrace.7f552d89.html) and dumped her body in Galveston Bay.
Both Trenor and Zeigler are charged with capital murder.
Reports indicate that they may face life in prison if convicted.
Zeigler is still awaiting trial.
CANDYKISSES
01-20-2009, 08:10 PM
Hi Soggy, I am trying to remember if we had a family member posting here during the search efforts. For some reason, I keep thinking a grandparent might have posted during that time. I hope beautiful Riley is able to get justice through our system.
She was such a beautiful child, I can only imagine what her personality brought to others who were left behind. :wub:
Neffy
01-20-2009, 08:14 PM
Hi Soggy, I am trying to remember if we had a family member posting here during the search efforts. For some reason, I keep thinking a grandparent might have posted during that time. I hope beautiful Riley is able to get justice through our system.
She was such a beautiful child, I can only imagine what her personality brought to others who were left behind. :wub:
Your correct. It was the Grandmother who lived in Mentor.
CANDYKISSES
01-20-2009, 08:17 PM
Your correct. It was the Grandmother who lived in Mentor.
Thanks Neffy. I wonder if she will be in and out here or not??
Any thoughts???:sad:
Neffy
01-20-2009, 08:41 PM
Thanks Neffy. I wonder if she will be in and out here or not??
Any thoughts???:sad:
I'd stopped posting towards the end of the news coverage.
She was greeted 50/50 here so I'm not sure.
Do you know of any coverage?
I did a quick cursory seach and I didn't see anything.
Neffy
01-20-2009, 08:47 PM
I re-read the probable cause reports OMG!
I can't even believe this one's even going to trial.
I guess when two are involved they have the option to roll the dice and point fingers at each other.
Both will be found guilty IMO.
aubrey04
01-20-2009, 08:59 PM
Hey guys,
I live in Houston, Texas. It is still weird to me that the DA's office took the death penalty off the table. I don't really understand why?!?! It's bizarre.
During Hurricane Ike - Galveston County Jail wasn't evacuated - I was sort of hoping that would take care of these two sickos.. no such luck. :( Anyway I wish this trial would be televised. I would love to go one day and watch the proceedings but it is just one of those cases that is too sad to think about. I don't know if I am strong enough to sit through testimony of child abuse and the murder of a child.
I hope little Riley Ann gets justice too.
Neffy
01-20-2009, 11:41 PM
Hey guys,
I live in Houston, Texas. It is still weird to me that the DA's office took the death penalty off the table. I don't really understand why?!?! It's bizarre.
During Hurricane Ike - Galveston County Jail wasn't evacuated - I was sort of hoping that would take care of these two sickos.. no such luck. :( Anyway I wish this trial would be televised. I would love to go one day and watch the proceedings but it is just one of those cases that is too sad to think about. I don't know if I am strong enough to sit through testimony of child abuse and the murder of a child.
I hope little Riley Ann gets justice too.
:seeya:
Hey Aubrey,
I think they did that as the case is going to be a he did it / she did it finger ponter. With the death penalty on the table I think they worried about getting a conviction.
I'm re-reading everything again as it's been awhile.
I've also wondered who adopted the baby boy she had while in prison.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a family member. I seem to recall something about giving the baby a chance without the Ziegler name attached
Kimberly Dawn Trenor, 19, of Spring, gave birth Thursday afternoon at Mainland Medical Center, said Maj. Mike Henson, Galveston County Jail commander. The child, a boy, was immediately taken from her, Henson told the Houston Chronicle in an online report on Saturday.
Besides medical and law-enforcement personnel, the only other person present was an attorney with adoption papers to sign.
http://www.kauz.com/news/22648009.html
Hey guys,
I live in Houston, Texas. It is still weird to me that the DA's office took the death penalty off the table. I don't really understand why?!?! It's bizarre.
During Hurricane Ike - Galveston County Jail wasn't evacuated - I was sort of hoping that would take care of these two sickos.. no such luck. :( Anyway I wish this trial would be televised. I would love to go one day and watch the proceedings but it is just one of those cases that is too sad to think about. I don't know if I am strong enough to sit through testimony of child abuse and the murder of a child.
I hope little Riley Ann gets justice too.
Maybe go to the sentencing hearing. Hope she gets the max. (Assuming she is found guilty, but I don't see how she could not.)
:seeya:
Hey Aubrey,
I think they did that as the case is going to be a he did it / she did it finger ponter. With the death penalty on the table I think they worried about getting a conviction.
I'm re-reading everything again as it's been awhile.
I've also wondered who adopted the baby boy she had while in prison.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a family member. I seem to recall something about giving the baby a chance without the Ziegler name attached
Kimberly Dawn Trenor, 19, of Spring, gave birth Thursday afternoon at Mainland Medical Center, said Maj. Mike Henson, Galveston County Jail commander. The child, a boy, was immediately taken from her, Henson told the Houston Chronicle in an online report on Saturday.
Besides medical and law-enforcement personnel, the only other person present was an attorney with adoption papers to sign.
http://www.kauz.com/news/22648009.html
There was a thread started some time ago, where someone posted the baby did go to family. Don't recall which side, and don't recall if there was a link.
SoggyBayou
01-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Trenor pleads guilty of evidence tampering.....
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=a713c8447138e83f
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6221949.html
Neffy
01-21-2009, 12:04 PM
There was a thread started some time ago, where someone posted the baby did go to family. Don't recall which side, and don't recall if there was a link.
Thank you I did some back searching and I do see it. A relative of Kim's.
I have mixed opinions on this however I do believe a child should be with their natual relatives if there are such capable relatives.
Just a shame.
Neffy
01-21-2009, 12:06 PM
Trenor pleads guilty of evidence tampering.....
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=a713c8447138e83f
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6221949.html
IMO they are both equally guilty of each charge.
cantstandnuts
01-21-2009, 06:22 PM
Thanks Neffy. I wonder if she will be in and out here or not??
Any thoughts???:sad:
She might read, but I don't think she'll post. She was accused of not being the Grandmother and she pretty much took off after that; I don't blame her, it wasn't nice.
Anyway, she has a website dedicated to Riley Ann. I sent her email from there and she answered. I just googled Riley Ann Sawyers and it came up.
CANDYKISSES
01-21-2009, 07:53 PM
She might read, but I don't think she'll post. She was accused of not being the Grandmother and she pretty much took off after that; I don't blame her, it wasn't nice.
Anyway, she has a website dedicated to Riley Ann. I sent her email from there and she answered. I just googled Riley Ann Sawyers and it came up.
Thank you for the information. :wink:
SoggyBayou
01-22-2009, 11:45 AM
http://galvestondailynews.com/police.lasso
"150 Qualify For Baby Grace Jury
GALVESTON — A district court judge qualified Wednesday 150 people who said they could render an impartial verdict if chosen to hear the trial of a woman accused in the killing of her daughter called Baby Grace.
On Monday, 12 jurors and two alternates will be selected from the pool of 150 people. Opening testimony in the capital murder case of Kimberly Dawn Trenor, 20, is scheduled to begin Tuesday in the slaying of Riley Ann Sawyers, 2, who was called Baby Grace until her name was learned.
Trenor and her husband Royce Clyde Zeigler, 25, are accused of killing Sawyers in 2007 and dumping her body from the Galveston Causeway.
A court coordinator said those who received a jury summons for today and Friday are not required to appear. Jurors who do appear will be sent home."
cantstandnuts
01-22-2009, 07:49 PM
Thank you for the information. :wink:
Don't mention it. :smile:
You can, if so inclined, light a candle for Riley Ann here:
http://riley-ann-sawyers.memory-of.com/Candles.aspx?c=1
aubrey04
01-24-2009, 05:06 PM
There was a thread started some time ago, where someone posted the baby did go to family. Don't recall which side, and don't recall if there was a link.
I think I might have been the one who started that thread. There was a lot of controversy over where the new baby would go. Kim Trenor wanted the baby to go to her aunt or cousin.. Royce was refusing to sign his rights away and wanted the child to go to his parents.
I think the baby ended up with Trenor's relatives.. IIRC, they live in Dallas, Texas..
SoggyBayou
01-25-2009, 10:27 AM
Click Here For Baby Grace Trial Updates (http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/html/babygrace.htm)
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/html/babygrace.htm
Scholars debate legal Baby Grace case strategies
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=d203175d10ef53b5
"GALVESTON — Legal scholars are weighing what strategies prosecutors and the defense might use when the trial of Kimberly Dawn Trenor, 20, begins Tuesday in the brutal killing of her 2-year-old daughter, Riley Ann Sawyers."
(http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/html/babygrace.htm)
BorderCollieMom
01-25-2009, 03:28 PM
Hey guys,
I live in Houston, Texas. It is still weird to me that the DA's office took the death penalty off the table. I don't really understand why?!?! It's bizarre.
During Hurricane Ike - Galveston County Jail wasn't evacuated - I was sort of hoping that would take care of these two sickos.. no such luck. :( Anyway I wish this trial would be televised. I would love to go one day and watch the proceedings but it is just one of those cases that is too sad to think about. I don't know if I am strong enough to sit through testimony of child abuse and the murder of a child.
I hope little Riley Ann gets justice too.
In todays Star Telegram newspaper....re: the DP not being used....because the Pros. didnt think they could prove that the pair would be a future danger, which is required.
startelegram.com
SoggyBayou
01-26-2009, 05:12 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm?act=Newsletter.cfm&category=News%201-2&newsletterid=12064&menugroup=Home
"The defendant, Kimberly Anne Trenor was seated between both her counsel at the table for the defense. She appeared calm and thin behind her glasses, with her hair pulled back and dressed in a simple white top with pink sweater. She appeared alert and interested in the process as she made eye contact with the potential jurors and appeared to be taking notes."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not fooled by her demeanor.
IMO
JD1974
01-26-2009, 06:45 PM
In todays Star Telegram newspaper....re: the DP not being used....because the Pros. didnt think they could prove that the pair would be a future danger, which is required.
startelegram.com
I am lost, in the link below it says this is a capital case and potential jurors were asked if they could penalize with the DP if the defendants were found guilty?
From.... http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm?act=Newsletter.cfm&category=News%201-2&newsletterid=12064&menugroup=Home
The jury pool was asked such pointed questions as to who already had a preconceived belief regarding the case and who could not in good conscience vote for the death penalty, should the state prove its' case.
SoggyBayou
01-26-2009, 07:35 PM
I am lost, in the link below it says this is a capital case and potential jurors were asked if they could penalize with the DP if the defendants were found guilty?
From.... http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm?act=Newsletter.cfm&category=News%201-2&newsletterid=12064&menugroup=Home
The jury pool was asked such pointed questions as to who already had a preconceived belief regarding the case and who could not in good conscience vote for the death penalty, should the state prove its' case.
I'm confused also. Maybe we will learn more tomorrow. District Attorney Kurt Sistrunk had stated last year that the state would not seek the death penalty.
SoggyBayou
01-26-2009, 10:03 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/html/babygrace.htm
"At one point Trenor's attorney, Tom Stickler, objected to Sistrunks line of questioning but was overruled by Judge Garner.
Jury selection is expected to be completed today.
Breck Porter, The Police News"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder what the objection was?
JD1974
01-27-2009, 12:10 AM
I'm confused also. Maybe we will learn more tomorrow. District Attorney Kurt Sistrunk had stated last year that the state would not seek the death penalty.
I read that also, that is why I am so confused?
SoggyBayou
01-27-2009, 08:55 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6230596.html
"A jury of seven women and five men, chosen Monday along with two alternate jurors, will hear opening statements before the prosecution tries to prove that Trenor and her husband beat Riley Ann Sawyers to death, then hid the body for up to two months before tossing it into West Galveston Bay."
CANDYKISSES
01-27-2009, 11:57 AM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/html/babygrace.htm
"At one point Trenor's attorney, Tom Stickler, objected to Sistrunks line of questioning but was overruled by Judge Garner.
Jury selection is expected to be completed today.
Breck Porter, The Police News"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder what the objection was?
I'd like to know as well. Is there still no live coverage of this trial? :sad:
SoggyBayou
01-27-2009, 01:23 PM
I'd like to know as well. Is there still no live coverage of this trial? :sad:
Hello Candy, I have searched and have not found live coverage.
Some strict limitations
"State District Judge David Garner has imposed unusually strict limitations on news organizations covering the trial, requiring special credentials for reporters and limiting where and how interviews can be conducted."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6230596.html
BorderCollieMom
01-27-2009, 01:55 PM
A capital murder charge carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison, the Chronicle reported.
From CNN's website:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/27/baby.grace.trial/index.html?section=cnn_latest
I think the "tampering" sentence is a seperate charge carrying up to 20 yrs.
I am happy to see that they named the island in her honor, Rileys Island.
BorderCollieMom
01-27-2009, 02:05 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/News%201-2/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/12072/startrow/8.htm
WARNING ! There is graphic descriptions of what happened.
SoggyBayou
01-27-2009, 02:41 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/News%201-2/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/12072/startrow/8.htm
WARNING ! There is graphic descriptions of what happened.
Thanx BCM for the update.
They tortured Riley. Despicable.
cuddlyrunner
01-27-2009, 02:43 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/News%201-2/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/12072/startrow/8.htm
WARNING ! There is graphic descriptions of what happened.
My mind cannot grasp this horror that the poor baby endured. I sincerely hope the death penalty is available and will be used.
texasgal
01-27-2009, 02:53 PM
And her apparent last words to her mother "I love you mommy"
*gulp*
camracrazy
01-27-2009, 03:17 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/News%201-2/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/12072/startrow/8.htm
WARNING ! There is graphic descriptions of what happened.
barf
How could you watch someone do that to your child and not only not stop them, but participate? I can't even form the words to say what I want to say about that.
logbump
01-27-2009, 03:22 PM
This has to be one of the most horrific crimes I have seen described EVER!
StillEG
01-27-2009, 05:37 PM
And her apparent last words to her mother "I love you mommy"
*gulp*
:crying:
.
logbump
01-27-2009, 05:44 PM
Another link for updates.
http://www.galvnews.com/
cherylt
01-27-2009, 05:51 PM
And her apparent last words to her mother "I love you mommy"
*gulp*
Oh God! When I read that I felt like puking. Which was immediately followed by tears...
Poor Riley... :rose: I'm crying for you baby, but hope you are in a better place...
ETA: I don't think I could watch this trial if it is shown. There are some that are just too emotional for me. Like that monster, Cuoey, and the details behind Jessica's horrifying death.
SoggyBayou
01-27-2009, 07:59 PM
http://www.click2houston.com/news/18572302/detail.html
Jurors Weep Watching Confession In Baby's Death
"GALVESTON, Texas -- Jurors wept Tuesday as they heard a mother detail how an attempt to teach her 2-year-old daughter proper manners turned into a daylong torture session in which the toddler was beaten with belts, dunked in a bathtub of cold water and flung across a room so violently that she died from her injuries."
aubrey04
01-27-2009, 08:57 PM
It is so much worse than I ever imagined. This poor little girl. I just don't know what to say. At least she is safe now & can't be hurt anymore. What she endured before she died is unimaginable.
Trenor and Zeigler deserve the death penalty. They do not deserve to live any longer, especially Zeigler. They're not human - just savage, rabid, vicious beasts.
ugh.
:crying:
lunchlady
01-27-2009, 08:59 PM
Sweet Jesus, I wish there was a way to keep children out of situations like this. I don't know the way, I just wish there were one.
One of my younger cousins was "disciplined" with nearly this level of brutality, to teach her proper manners. When she was about 6 she fell off the climbing structure at school and when she was taken to a doctor he discovered bruises and scars under her clothes and healed fractures on XRay. The state took her away and I've never seen her since. My aunt was the main perpetrator but my uncle also got in on the fun. He says he now has a little bit of contact with her and his grandchildren and that his wife, now dead, was insane, but I still can't forgive him for allowing and participating in the abuse of a small child. I also still question the judgment of the other adults in the extended family that they didn't catch on and do anything.
I was initially surprised but I eventually remembered things which were clues. She tried to eat crackers with a fork and seemed really scared when it didn't work very well. My uncle would encourage my parents to beat me because he thought I was growing up to be a "hellion." She walked in a funny flatfooted way and didn't like to run around and climb trees. My grandmother later told me that they openly beat their little dog in a relentless way. Each one of these things didn't seem like things to call the police about at the time, but the whole picture made sense after the fact.
Riley didn't even have her extended family around to help keep an eye on her. I'm not too impressed with Riley's dad, but the grandmother helped bring the killers to justice and seems to be the person who loved her the most.
The photos of the mother smiling in the court room jar me almost as much as the memorial cross and the little girl's photos. How does a mother convince herself that torturing her daughter is a good idea? Did she feel like Riley had ruined her life? Did she want to keep her creepy husband around by making Riley mind better and being less like a two year old?
SoggyBayou
01-27-2009, 09:59 PM
PoliceNewsOnline.com Afternoon Update 1/27/09
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/2/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
" Sgt. Michael Barry took the stand to testify for the prosecution. His testimony covered key events. He testified about various leads his department investigated in an effort to find out who Baby Grace really was. He spoke of the lead from Cheryl Sawyer and the ensueing invetigation which eventually lead him to both defendants. He testifed to receiving a telephone call from Royce Zeigle and asked for DNA samples from Zeigler's wife, Ms. Trenor. Sgt. Barry was told by Mr. Zeigler that they would have to wait for his attorny to come back from vacation and Mr. Zeigler denied the corpse was Riley.
On November 23, Sgt. Barry was informed that Ms. Trenor was with her attorney to give DNA samples at the district attorney's office. Sgt. Barry testified that when Ms. Trenor was interviewed she was not considered a suspect but was advised of her rights. Her attorney was present. The interview was approximately three and a half to four hours in length. Additionally, Sgt. Barry testifed that he made more than one trip to Ohio in order to investigate the background of Ms. Trenor. He interviewed Ms. Williams, the defendants biological mother, the defendant father, and gradmother. They all told Sgt. Barry there was no history of abuse to Riley by Ms. Trenor."
rox801
01-28-2009, 09:08 AM
"HE STAYED HOME FROM WORK TO HAVE A DISCIPLINE SESSION"
HE WEIGHED, WHAT, 200 LBS. SHE WEIGHED, WHAT 30 LBS.
"HE LIFTED HER BY THE HAIR AND THREW HER AGAINST THE WALL, CAUSING SCULL FRACTURES, ULTIMATELY RESULTING IN HER DEATH."
"THEY TOOK TURNS BEATING HER WITH A BELT, UNTIL HER BODY WAS BLACK AND BLUE"
"THEY TOOK A BREAK, PACKED HER IN ICE, THEN STARTED AGAIN"
"SHE HELD OUT HER ARMS AND SAID, "I LOVE YOU MOMMY" AS SHE WAS BEING BEATEN.
These are quotes from opening statements in this trial and they simply chill me to the bone. It is a FACT that Satan is alive and well here on earth. I am simply speechless. God, thank you for reaching your hand down and taking this baby Home with you to end her suffering.
wmills6@caro
01-28-2009, 10:23 AM
And all to teach this little baby manners. She was just a baby! Manners are taught by example, where were their manners to Riley? How could anyone see their baby black and blue, reaching out her little arms to say I Love You, and not be moved? How could anyone let their baby get to that condition to begin with? She had a paternal grandmother who would have loved her, but her mother treated her as a pawn, a possession, not a human being. If she'd treated her as a human being, she would have recognized that staying with the grandmother was best and put her own interests aside. The mother and stepdad are both Monsters, I'm glad she wasn't allowed to keep the other baby.
texasgal
01-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Does anyone know if the grandmother or the bio dad is here for the trial?
joolz
01-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Here's what I don't understand. The death penalty is not being sought because it was determined that it couldn't be proven that these two monsters would be a further danger to society. WHAT?
Am I missing something here?
logbump
01-28-2009, 01:11 PM
I am glad to see interest picking up on this thread. So many posters follow Caylee, understandably so, but this trial is underway and equally horrific a case .IMO. One needs company to follow something this awful!
Neffy
01-28-2009, 01:15 PM
Here's what I don't understand. The death penalty is not being sought because it was determined that it couldn't be proven that these two monsters would be a further danger to society. WHAT?
Am I missing something here?
Unbelievable! I thought it was that they were going to point the fingers at each other which may prevent the jury from convicting one over the other in a DP case. (Although IMO they both should recieve it)
BorderCollieMom
01-28-2009, 01:17 PM
From the above link, it says....
The defense attorney went on to say that once in Texas, there were now new demands to get Riley toilet trained so she could attend day care and Ms. Trenor could seek employment.
OMG, this is such BS !!!!!! I have NEVER heard of a 2 year old being required to be potty trained in order to go to daycare !!!
MONSTERS !!!
logbump
01-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Some help here,guys. How does one get a seperate links thread? Once we go to another page, it will be hard for newcomers to find the links. TIA
lunchlady
01-28-2009, 01:33 PM
From the above link, it says....
The defense attorney went on to say that once in Texas, there were now new demands to get Riley toilet trained so she could attend day care and Ms. Trenor could seek employment.
OMG, this is such BS !!!!!! I have NEVER heard of a 2 year old being required to be potty trained in order to go to daycare !!!
MONSTERS !!!
Do some parents really believe a 2 year old can be beaten into toilet training? All the parent education things I ran into years ago discouraged such notions, but maybe these two thought they would prove all those nay-sayers wrong. Or they didn't have any information? Trenor was supposedly a good student in high school before her pregnancy but I guess that doesn't mean she knew much about raising children.
One of things that really turns my stomach is the choice to cover up the crime instead of trying to save Riley's life by taking her to a hospital.
logbump
01-28-2009, 01:39 PM
From the description of the injuries, specifically the multiple skull fractures, I don't think the poor thing could have been saved. Brutal!
TaintedHalo
01-28-2009, 02:10 PM
This breaks my heart. This "mother" needs to be hung by her toes in a public square - preferably in the weather Texas is experiencing right now, i.e., rain and sleet. MOO
joolz
01-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Some help here,guys. How does one get a seperate links thread? Once we go to another page, it will be hard for newcomers to find the links. TIA
I don't know, log, but I think the Baby Grace thread will have to become a thread that is separate from the "trials and old cases" thread. I don't know if you have to request that from Coldwater.:confused:
logbump
01-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Thanks Joolz
If interest keeps going up I'll try that.:laugh:
BorderCollieMom
01-28-2009, 03:29 PM
Here's what I don't understand. The death penalty is not being sought because it was determined that it couldn't be proven that these two monsters would be a further danger to society. WHAT?
Am I missing something here?
That is correct. Thats the way Capital crimes and punishment are in Texas. It is "required" that a person be a threat to others in order to seek the DP....The reason why it is considered a capital case is becasue it involves a victim under 6 yrs of age (I think i said that right.
There is more about this on page 1 ... i think it was "Soggy" that posted a link about Legal Scholars Debating this crime & punishment.
We just recently got Life WithOUT parole...Ive wondered if it has something to with that...but I havnt researched it.
Lavenia
01-28-2009, 03:35 PM
To try to stop the beating, Riley told her mother, "I love you." :sad:
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212203441.shtml
This case is a classic case when the the death penalty needs to used. These 2 monsters torture and murder a two year old then have a baby together. I think it's wrong giving the baby to relatives of theirs. Obviously nobody in either of their families cared enough to check things out until months after the child had been murdered. This sounds too much like Callie A's relatives. Enabling the murderer (s). Either way these two will get their justice from a higher power. That I am sure about. Jury just don't let them off so they can breed and murder again.
BorderCollieMom
01-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Looks like they are already pointing fingers at each other. The stepdads suicide note may get her a lesser charge, which the jury is aware of.
They are BOTH guilty in my eyes. I think the "families" have been really quiet. I wonder if any of them are there ?
OMG! Reading that just broke my heart. :crying:
RIP baby girl. Nobody will hurt you anymore. :rose:
ortiga
01-28-2009, 04:01 PM
Every now and then it's easy to recognize pure evil, no if's and's or but's.
This case, little Jessie's murderer, that sick creep in Idaho. And the sicko who took the life of that hiker with her pet dog on a park trail in Georgia.
Too bad we just don't have a "eliminate" button. Some of these evil jerks will spend the rest of their lives in prison in more comfort than many citizens, never having to worry about paying bills, or where the next meal comes from.
Marcia3
01-28-2009, 04:02 PM
From the above link, it says....
The defense attorney went on to say that once in Texas, there were now new demands to get Riley toilet trained so she could attend day care and Ms. Trenor could seek employment.
OMG, this is such BS !!!!!! I have NEVER heard of a 2 year old being required to be potty trained in order to go to daycare !!!
MONSTERS !!!
I've never heard of that either...my daughters started day care before they were potty trained...geez, they've had plenty of time to come up with a defense. This is the best they've got?
Looks like they are already pointing fingers at each other. The stepdads suicide note may get her a lesser charge, which the jury is aware of.
They are BOTH guilty in my eyes. I think the "families" have been really quiet. I wonder if any of them are there ?
If one parent stands by KNOWING the other parent is abusing the kid(s) s/he SHOULD be held as equally responsible.
I don't know about other states, but here we have a ruling where, if one is in the presence of someone committing a crime, the one who is "just there" can be charged equally. Such as, the kid who just happens to be riding around in a car with kids who stop and rob the local 7-11. He was there, he can be charged. Or, 2 guys go in to rob the 7-11 and only one actually holds the gun and gets the money. Or, only one actually shoots the clerk. Both are equally responsible, equally charged.
I have not had the misfortune to be in an abusive situation, but have read how hard (and scary, and sometimes dangerous) it is to get out of the situation. But, for it to include THE CHILDREN and to do nothing. When I read of women who did get out, many times it is because the abuse began to include the kids that they managed to leave.
I wonder if the mom experienced any abuse against her? Or, was all the anger and frustrations taken out on the baby? The sad thing is, once she found out she had made a mistake going across country to hook up w/some fellow she met on the internet, I'm betting her family would have helped her get back, and either family would have taken Riley back with them even if Kim wanted to stay. WHY sit back and watch your baby being tortured (or even participate in it?) If the child is a burden to your relationship---even if you don't want bio-dad to have custody, @ the LEAST, get the child to the safety of family who love and adore her. (Like the mom should love and adore her.)
Marcia3
01-28-2009, 04:07 PM
IMO she wanted the man more than her own baby.
IMO he wanted his own baby, not another man's.
Sometimes things are just that simple. They should both rot in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives, and then be swooped off to hell.
:cursing:
museumgirl
01-28-2009, 04:14 PM
OMG... after all the horrific things I've heard regarding this story.... I think that just pushed me over the edge. Immediately bringing me to tears..... MONSTERS..... :angry:
SoggyBayou
01-28-2009, 04:15 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
"Testimony continued this morning in the trial of Kimberly Trenor; finding Sgt. Mike Barry of the Galveston Coutny Sheriff's Office, resuming his seat, in the witness chair. Sgt. Barry assisted DA Sistrunk to further the case for the prosecution. As the district attorney showed colored photographs enlarged on a screen to the jury, Sgt. Barry identified and explained key elements of the photos, such as identifying the location of where Riley's remains were dumped, as well, as the area where Riley's remains were recovered. Some were aerial photos.."
Click above to read more.
wmills6@caro
01-28-2009, 04:17 PM
I think the fact he took a day off work for a "discipline" session is proof of premeditation. That is not what discipline is about. Discipline is trying to talk to or reason with the child. If that doesn't work, maybe, maybe, a quick swat to the backside and send them to their room. It does not involve beating the child bloody and fracturing their skull. I bet they as adults could not have withstood treatment like that, yet they did exactly that to a fragile little baby. Riley didn't even understand why they were doing this to her. In her picture, she looks like such a sweet, eager-to-please kid. I doubt very much she was a difficult child, but even a difficult child deserves so much better than these two.
From the above link, it says....
The defense attorney went on to say that once in Texas, there were now new demands to get Riley toilet trained so she could attend day care and Ms. Trenor could seek employment.
OMG, this is such BS !!!!!! I have NEVER heard of a 2 year old being required to be potty trained in order to go to daycare !!!
MONSTERS !!!
I don't know WHY some parents (step parents) seem to think a 2 year old is going to sit quietly in the corner playing with her toys, knowing to say sir and maam, please and thank you. My goodness, it takes a lot of repetition for a little tyke to understand WHEN to say please and thank you--how many times when you asked your little one "what do you say" perhaps meaning "thank you" that the little one might say "you're welcome" instead?
My kids were in day care all their lives--I don't recall a specific age that one had to be potty trained by. Now, PRE-SCHOOL, that was another whole ball of wax, they DID have to be potty trained before that. DS was late bloomer, and was never kicked out of day care because he wasn't potty trained by 2 years.
This breaks my heart. This "mother" needs to be hung by her toes in a public square - preferably in the weather Texas is experiencing right now, i.e., rain and sleet. MOO
Or maybe in the hottest time of the year, making sure the pole she hangs from is in a fire ant den. Might pour a little honey on her now and again--maybe attract some flies or other critters. Maybe the step dad should be on the next pole--but he could be hung by another portion of his anatomy--and they could watch each other being tortured, like they watched each other torture that baby.
IMO she wanted the man more than her own baby.
IMO he wanted his own baby, not another man's.
Sometimes things are just that simple. They should both rot in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives, and then be swooped off to hell.
:cursing:
And they both could have had what they wanted--just by sending Riley back to one of her grandmothers, or her bio dad. Even if it is true that Kim was assaulted by the dad--that is no reason not to let Riley go back to HER family. I guess maybe she didn't want anyone else to have Riley, either.
ortiga
01-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I've never heard of that either...my daughters started day care before they were potty trained...geez, they've had plenty of time to come up with a defense. This is the best they've got?
This really stinks.....it's got the flavor of the whole thing being the baby's fault....after all she didn't take to potty training.
I read where she did not agree, or did not like, the use of a belt. Well, ya know---if you can't agree on childrearing, get the heck out of Dodge!!! I'm sure his method of disciplining came out pretty near the beginning, I don't think it had JUST reared it's ugly head. Did he show this side BEFORE she married the SOB? She had to know beating with a belt wasn't the way kids are supposed to be disciplined.
Marcia3
01-28-2009, 04:52 PM
And they both could have had what they wanted--just by sending Riley back to one of her grandmothers, or her bio dad. Even if it is true that Kim was assaulted by the dad--that is no reason not to let Riley go back to HER family. I guess maybe she didn't want anyone else to have Riley, either.
ITA. And if Kim was assaulted by her dad, then how was staying with Kim and the POS she was married to any better? At least Kim lived beyond two years...
StillEG
01-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Horrific...I cried when I read it yesterday. BTW, the trial has started and we have a thread:
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=348077
museumgirl
01-28-2009, 05:23 PM
I just read the 'I Love You Mommy' a couple hours ago and have been in tears since.... that poor little angel probably did love her mom and thought that if she knew she would help her..... I hope that 'mommy' hears those words EVERY waking minute of every day she is still on this earth. I couldn't watch this trial.. I have so much sympathy for the jurors... they will never be the same.... nobody should have to hear these types of details, see pix of a child like that... NOBODY. Not a fair comparison... since I obviously LOVE my daughters but every time they tell me they love me, I can't help but smile and hug them... I cannot imagine having my daughter look at me say "I Love You" and then continue to beat the life out of her... MONSTERS like that do NOT deserve to live.
museumgirl
01-28-2009, 05:26 PM
She was pretty little for potty training IMO... unless she initiated it. Which obviously was not the case.
cherylt
01-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Are these two disgusting beasts being kept separate from other inmates due to the publicity of this trial? (please don't tell me they are out on bond..)
WHEN they are found guilty & sent to state prison, I hope they are immediately thrown into general pop. Baby Killers & molesters are the lowest of the low on the totem pool. I hope they both get to learn what it feels like to be thrown across the room and hit walls (preferable breaking a limb or two in the process); they should also know how it feels to be hit with fists and other objects that other inmates may have. I know this isn't the "american justice way" I am stating, but in this case, I believe an "eye for an eye". They should suffer just as much, and if one of them happens to die in the process (like Dahmer); so be it...
IMO :cursing: :angry:
ITA. And if Kim was assaulted by her dad, then how was staying with Kim and the POS she was married to any better? At least Kim lived beyond two years...
Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I think Kim was assaulted by Riley's bio dad. So, I could see her not staying in his mom's house anymore, but hadn't heard about any domestic violence @ Kim's parents' house, and she could have stayed there.
Are these two disgusting beasts being kept separate from other inmates due to the publicity of this trial? (please don't tell me they are out on bond..)
WHEN they are found guilty & sent to state prison, I hope they are immediately thrown into general pop. Baby Killers & molesters are the lowest of the low on the totem pool. I hope they both get to learn what it feels like to be thrown across the room and hit walls (preferable breaking a limb or two in the process); they should also know how it feels to be hit with fists and other objects that other inmates may have. I know this isn't the "american justice way" I am stating, but in this case, I believe an "eye for an eye". They should suffer just as much, and if one of them happens to die in the process (like Dahmer); so be it...
IMO :cursing: :angry:
Or like poor little Riley did. :cursing:
lunchlady
01-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Around here the "preschools" sometimes require potty training and are generally cheaper per hour than the "day care" places. The rules are always changing though, because so many parents need full days and the demand for todder and infant care seems to keep getting higher.
Not that this changes the craziness of trying to beat a child to get them potty trained. If the kid needed a place that changes diapers so what? It's not that much more expensive that a sane person would put a lot of pressure on the kid to give up the diapers.
I used to be a burn nurse and I learned that boyfriends and stepdads are often the most brutal abusers. I think they resent having another man's child around, especially when the child is small and requires a lot of attention. Small children can be difficult even for the bioparents, but the fuse is apparently shorter for step parents and boy/girlfriends. This goes against most people's intuition, as we generally expect more tenderness and care towards small children than older ones, but the kind of person who would physically injure a small child is also often immature and jealous and selfish and therefore more likely to be impatient and enraged by the quantity and types of a small child's needs. An older child is also better able to stay out of harm's way.
There are lots of wonderful people out there raising children who aren't their own biological children and they're doing a wonderful job, and there are also lots of bioparents who are awful, but the biological connection does seem to raise the threshold for abuse for some people. A social worker I met thinks this is especially true for sexual abuse of young girls. His ballpark estimate was that stepdads and other men the mother brings around were 10 times more likely to abuse a young girl than that girl's own biodad. So think about that if you're looking for a boyfriend, you single moms out there. I know life can be rough and you want to find someone to share your life with, but your kids shouldn't be the ones to suffer first if you make a bad choice.
SoggyBayou
01-28-2009, 07:26 PM
Four additional witnesses........
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
P.S. When I try to copy and paste from above website it changes my font size, so I will no longer copy and paste.
A Nutter Mutter
01-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I am glad to see interest picking up on this thread. So many posters follow Caylee, understandably so, but this trial is underway and equally horrific a case .IMO. One needs company to follow something this awful!
I just found this thread and hope y'all don't mind if I join in. I heard Mike Galanos (sp?) talking about this earlier today and honestly, I thought I was going to lose my lunch. I will never understand how anyone, much less parents, could do these kinds of things to little children. If they want to be abusive, IMO, they should pick on someone their own size. Someone who can dish back what they are receiving and more.
I remember when this child was found and they had no clue who she was, then I didn't hear much and then nothing. What a beautiful baby. And to think she had to say "I love you" to maybe get the madness to stop. So sad, so senseless, so unimaginable!
Many prayers for Baby RAS.
ETA, yes, one does need company to follow something this awful!
logbump
01-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Four additional witnesses........
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
P.S. When I try to copy and paste from above website it changes my font size, so I will no longer copy and paste.
Thanks again, Soggy. I will continue to publish that link when there are updates or until we get a links thread. I cannot fathom what it would be like to serve on that jury!:crying:
cantstandnuts
01-28-2009, 08:13 PM
This case is a classic case when the the death penalty needs to used. These 2 monsters torture and murder a two year old then have a baby together. I think it's wrong giving the baby to relatives of theirs. Obviously nobody in either of their families cared enough to check things out until months after the child had been murdered. This sounds too much like Callie A's relatives. Enabling the murderer (s). Either way these two will get their justice from a higher power. That I am sure about. Jury just don't let them off so they can breed and murder again.
Sheryl Ann Sawyers, Riley's grandmother, tried hard to find Riley and it was Sheryl who led police in the right direction. I believe she truly loved Riley and I don't think she should be called an enabler or should in any way be compared with the Anthony's. She broke this case and IMO is the reason these two despicable creatures are finally going to be punished for this disgusting crime. I only wish they were seeking the death penalty, because if anyone deserves it, it's these two wastes of oxygen. IMO.
cantstandnuts
01-28-2009, 08:19 PM
I just read the 'I Love You Mommy' a couple hours ago and have been in tears since.... that poor little angel probably did love her mom and thought that if she knew she would help her..... I hope that 'mommy' hears those words EVERY waking minute of every day she is still on this earth. I couldn't watch this trial.. I have so much sympathy for the jurors... they will never be the same.... nobody should have to hear these types of details, see pix of a child like that... NOBODY. Not a fair comparison... since I obviously LOVE my daughters but every time they tell me they love me, I can't help but smile and hug them... I cannot imagine having my daughter look at me say "I Love You" and then continue to beat the life out of her... MONSTERS like that do NOT deserve to live.
When I read that, I instinctively blocked my eyes...like I was watching a horror movie. I may as well have been. It doesn't get more horrific than this and I'm just so heartsick for this poor little baby who never had a chance with these monsters.
cantstandnuts
01-28-2009, 08:34 PM
How can Kimberly Trenor smile...at all? How can she hear the words "I love you Mommy" in her head, knowing she was beating that child and knowing she did nothing to protect her very own child...and still smile today at her trial? How could she ever smile again? This woman deserves no mercy. Neither of them deserves mercy. I rarely say this, but they deserve to rot in hell, literally, to rot in hell while they are still alive to feel it. IMO
SoggyBayou
01-28-2009, 08:55 PM
Late in court testimony this evening, Galveston County Sheriff's Deputy Elias Cazares testified that when deputies executied a search warrant on a rented mini-storage, rents for Tenor and Royce Ziegler by his mother, they discovered several notebooks, pads and papers. In one of the notebooks the deputy noted, was a page entitled "Rules For Riley," set out as follows:
1. Be Polite
2. Listen to Mom and Me
3. Sleep at 8PM
4. Nap @ 2PM
5. Toys stay in her room
6. Put toys back where she got them
7. Behave in public
8. Never alone in our room
9. Chocolate and sweets only as a reward
10. (this was left blank)
Cazares did not testify whether Trenor or Zieglar composed the list of rules.
Reporter Joan Meidam will file her final report this evening.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
For a 2yr old? That is nutsy....
A Nutter Mutter
01-28-2009, 10:08 PM
How can Kimberly Trenor smile...at all? How can she hear the words "I love you Mommy" in her head, knowing she was beating that child and knowing she did nothing to protect her very own child...and still smile today at her trial? How could she ever smile again? This woman deserves no mercy. Neither of them deserves mercy. I rarely say this, but they deserve to rot in hell, literally, to rot in hell while they are still alive to feel it. IMO
I can't begin to fathom how she could possibly smile at anything! When each of my children were this age it was nothing but a glorious time for me watching them grow and learn. I couldn't wait until I got off work to pick them up and always looked forward to the evening with them. We had picnics on the floor and watched TV, read books, etc., sounds like Baby Riley had none of that. JMO
I do believe these adults will rot in hell, MVOO.
A Nutter Mutter
01-28-2009, 10:16 PM
Late in court testimony this evening, Galveston County Sheriff's Deputy Elias Cazares testified that when deputies executied a search warrant on a rented mini-storage, rents for Tenor and Royce Ziegler by his mother, they discovered several notebooks, pads and papers. In one of the notebooks the deputy noted, was a page entitled "Rules For Riley," set out as follows:
1. Be Polite
2. Listen to Mom and Me
3. Sleep at 8PM
4. Nap @ 2PM
5. Toys stay in her room
6. Put toys back where she got them
7. Behave in public
8. Never alone in our room
9. Chocolate and sweets only as a reward
10. (this was left blank)
Cazares did not testify whether Trenor or Zieglar composed the list of rules.
Reporter Joan Meidam will file her final report this evening.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
For a 2yr old? That is nutsy....
How is a 2 yr. old supposed to understand this?? These so called "people" are crazy! Babies this age learn by repetition and observation and lots of love. Sounds like this baby was in a military school.
koawally
01-28-2009, 10:58 PM
:rose: God Bless this precious darling Angel...no more tears in Heaven.
That poor jury :wub:
Such horrific details of what was done to this sweet girl.
I hope they BOTH are found GUILTY --> E V I L ---> M O N S T E R S
:sad:
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' '
' '
' '
Four additional witnesses........
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
P.S. When I try to copy and paste from above website it changes my font size, so I will no longer copy and paste.
Thanks for the link, SoggyBayou. The readers' comments were interesting, and as far as I got, pretty much say the same as people on message boards. Seems no love is lost for this "mom" and her hubby.
Late in court testimony this evening, Galveston County Sheriff's Deputy Elias Cazares testified that when deputies executied a search warrant on a rented mini-storage, rents for Tenor and Royce Ziegler by his mother, they discovered several notebooks, pads and papers. In one of the notebooks the deputy noted, was a page entitled "Rules For Riley," set out as follows:
1. Be Polite
2. Listen to Mom and Me
3. Sleep at 8PM
4. Nap @ 2PM
5. Toys stay in her room
6. Put toys back where she got them
7. Behave in public
8. Never alone in our room
9. Chocolate and sweets only as a reward
10. (this was left blank)
Cazares did not testify whether Trenor or Zieglar composed the list of rules.
Reporter Joan Meidam will file her final report this evening.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
For a 2yr old? That is nutsy....
It would not be possible to determine who contributed which rule, but it seems the actual writing would be that of Zieglar, as is says in #2 Listen to Mom and me.
Regardless, wherever in the world did they get the idea that a baby of 2 years could UNDERSTAND? Like someone posted, they don't even have a good handle on speaking, let alone figuring out what the words mean, what response they should give in what situation.
lunchlady
01-29-2009, 01:55 AM
It would not be possible to determine who contributed which rule, but it seems the actual writing would be that of Zieglar, as is says in #2 Listen to Mom and me.
Regardless, wherever in the world did they get the idea that a baby of 2 years could UNDERSTAND? Like someone posted, they don't even have a good handle on speaking, let alone figuring out what the words mean, what response they should give in what situation.
One of the hard facts of parenting is that you have to go with the flow and that kids can't develop any faster than nature will allow them to. There are times where discipline will help, but there are lots of other times where the frustration is all for naught because kids just aren't neurologically ready to be potty trained or sleep through the night or whatever.
Some parenting books sell the idea that you can use their program and get tough and make it all so much easier, but I think they're mostly BS and they make parents feel inadequate. Whenever I hear a new parent say something about getting back to normal or getting their life back I want to laugh but I don't. I figure they'll learn soon enough that their lives just aren't going to be as simple as they were before they had a kid.
Apparently these two adults thought they could make life with a 2 year a breeze if they could just spend one day forcing Riley to obey the list of rules. Perhaps they hadn't been around very many children, or perhaps they thought they could do it better than those other wimpy parents out there.
SoggyBayou
01-29-2009, 07:57 AM
Final Recap of Day 2
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=3979215d61623826
Zeigler's lawyers: Trenor lied about role in death
Trenor’s story implicating Zeigler is a lie and a fantasy, Zeigler’s attorneys, Neal Davis III and Dee McWilliams, said after 10th District Court Judge David Garner dismissed jurors Wednesday.
“You’re about to get the real story that will be published sometime soon to the jury,” McWilliams said. “I don’t think there will be any question the only person responsible for the death of Riley Sawyers is Kimberly Trenor. She acted alone.”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6235840.html
Detective testifies 'Baby Grace' parents misled him
Jones testified that he spoke with Zeigler and Trenor, who both told him that Ohio CPS had taken Riley and that they had a document to prove it. Officials now say the couple had forged the document as a way to explain Riley’s absence.
joolz
01-29-2009, 11:12 AM
One of the hard facts of parenting is that you have to go with the flow and that kids can't develop any faster than nature will allow them to. There are times where discipline will help, but there are lots of other times where the frustration is all for naught because kids just aren't neurologically ready to be potty trained or sleep through the night or whatever.
Some parenting books sell the idea that you can use their program and get tough and make it all so much easier, but I think they're mostly BS and they make parents feel inadequate. Whenever I hear a new parent say something about getting back to normal or getting their life back I want to laugh but I don't. I figure they'll learn soon enough that their lives just aren't going to be as simple as they were before they had a kid.
Apparently these two adults thought they could make life with a 2 year a breeze if they could just spend one day forcing Riley to obey the list of rules. Perhaps they hadn't been around very many children, or perhaps they thought they could do it better than those other wimpy parents out there.
To me they aren't adults who thought anything. They are monsters who had no compunctions about torturing a tiny child to death. The words parents and adults don't mean a thing in this case. jmo
Heidi J.
01-29-2009, 11:20 AM
My mind cannot grasp this horror that the poor baby endured. I sincerely hope the death penalty is available and will be used.
I can't not even go to the link. The first day of opening statements was too much for me.:crying: I agree with you..My God.. what is wrong with these people!!:cursing:
BorderCollieMom
01-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Final Recap of Day 2
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/pressreleaseshow.cfm/pressreleaseID/3/Startrow/1/menuitemid/261/MenuGroup/Home.htm
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=3979215d61623826
Zeigler's lawyers: Trenor lied about role in death
Trenor’s story implicating Zeigler is a lie and a fantasy, Zeigler’s attorneys, Neal Davis III and Dee McWilliams, said after 10th District Court Judge David Garner dismissed jurors Wednesday.
“You’re about to get the real story that will be published sometime soon to the jury,” McWilliams said. “I don’t think there will be any question the only person responsible for the death of Riley Sawyers is Kimberly Trenor. She acted alone.”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6235840.html
Detective testifies 'Baby Grace' parents misled him
Jones testified that he spoke with Zeigler and Trenor, who both told him that Ohio CPS had taken Riley and that they had a document to prove it. Officials now say the couple had forged the document as a way to explain Riley’s absence.
In the first link...its gets into the 2 mens testimony ... they worked for Geek Squad and were in the home.
I dont know if I could hold my tongue when witnessing some of the things they did. I may have gotten fired by Best Buy but I cant stand nor stomache abuse to anything, human or animal...
I hope Trenor doesnt gain sympathy from the jury on this testimony.
museumgirl
01-29-2009, 12:28 PM
He took the day off of work for discipline... and he had NOTHING to do with this??? Are they nuts???? I take the day off of work to be with my kids because they are sick or because something special is going on at school or to be class mom... not to discipline my kids.
I held both of my girls on my lap last night until they fell asleep and then let them sleep there for probably an hour... at one point, my five year old looked up at me and goes 'I just love you so much mommy' and it took EVERYTHING I had not to cry... she was telling me because she wanted to... not because she was in fear of her life.
I didn't see anything about the guy from BB testifying... but I'm sure he's suffering enough knowing that he DID nothing.... but it would have been great if he would have said something.... maybe places like this that go into peoples homes should have some sort of training that would allow them to know what type of actions should be reported.
Motomom
01-29-2009, 12:35 PM
I take it there is no live stream to the courtroom? Ugg. THis case makes me sick. I wish the DP was on the table for both of them. Some people simply don't deserve to live, and these 2 are those people IMO. I dont' understand how they were deemed not to be a threat to society. They were obviously a threat to children IMO. This would have happened again IMO had they not been caught. This is just disgusting. Any other sites posting pictures from the trial. I saw only a few from yesterday?
Marcia3
01-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I think Kim was assaulted by Riley's bio dad. So, I could see her not staying in his mom's house anymore, but hadn't heard about any domestic violence @ Kim's parents' house, and she could have stayed there.
Got'cha. I misread.
So no reason whatsoever for not sending Riley back to OH to live with Kim's parents. Makes the eventual outcome of this situation even worse.
SoggyBayou
01-29-2009, 01:17 PM
I take it there is no live stream to the courtroom? Ugg. THis case makes me sick. I wish the DP was on the table for both of them. Some people simply don't deserve to live, and these 2 are those people IMO. I dont' understand how they were deemed not to be a threat to society. They were obviously a threat to children IMO. This would have happened again IMO had they not been caught. This is just disgusting. Any other sites posting pictures from the trial. I saw only a few from yesterday?
No live stream. Only one photographer allowed from the Galveston Daily News.
Pics posted here:
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/imagegallery.cfm?name=trenor+trial
snip.....
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=3979215d61623826
Zeigler's lawyers: Trenor lied about role in death
Trenor’s story implicating Zeigler is a lie and a fantasy, Zeigler’s attorneys, Neal Davis III and Dee McWilliams, said after 10th District Court Judge David Garner dismissed jurors Wednesday.
“You’re about to get the real story that will be published sometime soon to the jury,” McWilliams said. “I don’t think there will be any question the only person responsible for the death of Riley Sawyers is Kimberly Trenor. She acted alone.”
....snip
I notice Zeigler's trial has not yet been set. Too bad they aren't going for DP for him--I can see, after Trenor is convicted, he will "plea" and get a lesser sentence. Kind of along the lines of Marcus, where the wife is going to be in prison for 50+ years, and the husband will be out in 16 or so. What a travesty that would be!!!!
So, are we to believe that Ms Trenor--with no job, no money, already had an attorney before this investigation started? She wanted to check "with people" before she gave DNA--but her attorney wanted to be there, and he was on vacation. Or, are these public defenders? Seems kind of odd that the court would appoint an attorney who is on vacation. But, what do I know? :blushing:
In the first link...its gets into the 2 mens testimony ... they worked for Geek Squad and were in the home.
I dont know if I could hold my tongue when witnessing some of the things they did. I may have gotten fired by Best Buy but I cant stand nor stomache abuse to anything, human or animal...
I hope Trenor doesnt gain sympathy from the jury on this testimony.
I could see where her attorney is going. Ms Trenor, while Mr Zeigler was talking loudly to her, "didn't say two words." They are going to try to show that she was brow-beaten, afraid of Zeigler (and who wouldn't be) and that HE was the instigator, and she was afraid of what would happen to her if she was defiant, etc etc etc.
He took the day off of work for discipline... and he had NOTHING to do with this??? Are they nuts???? I take the day off of work to be with my kids because they are sick or because something special is going on at school or to be class mom... not to discipline my kids.
I held both of my girls on my lap last night until they fell asleep and then let them sleep there for probably an hour... at one point, my five year old looked up at me and goes 'I just love you so much mommy' and it took EVERYTHING I had not to cry... she was telling me because she wanted to... not because she was in fear of her life.
I didn't see anything about the guy from BB testifying... but I'm sure he's suffering enough knowing that he DID nothing.... but it would have been great if he would have said something.... maybe places like this that go into peoples homes should have some sort of training that would allow them to know what type of actions should be reported.
What would anyone have done with his report? That a man was talking loudly to his wife, angry that the bed wasn't made and the room hadn't been straightened up? If he didn't strike her or have her cowering in a corner, and she didn't have a black eye or visible bruises, it would just look like a controlling husband, and controlling spouses are a dime a dozen in this world. Who would he have reported about tossing (throwing) the kitten?
I must say, their testimony would have been better to be in Zeigler's trial, cuz what they have testified to so far seems to be that the person in charge so to speak was Zeigler, and one could see that probably Trenor was scared to death of him. IMO
kitty1182
01-29-2009, 01:52 PM
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/act/newsletter.cfm/category/News%201-2/MenuGroup/Home/NewsLetterID/12072/startrow/8.htm
WARNING ! There is graphic descriptions of what happened.
Too bad I couldn't go their bond and take them for a long ride down a long road..No return.
museumgirl
01-29-2009, 02:17 PM
I'm sorry... I hate that crap... my bio father beat the crap out of my mom all during their marriage, her pregnancy and afterwards... the minute he even looked my direction she bailed... she left him and the state even... she didn't even care that she took me across state lines to get away from him.... and I don't care how scared I am or what could happen to me.... I will be a dead and bloody pile of pulp on the ground before someone... ANYONE touches my child in a violent manner!!!
texasgal
01-29-2009, 02:17 PM
I could see where her attorney is going. Ms Trenor, while Mr Zeigler was talking loudly to her, "didn't say two words." They are going to try to show that she was brow-beaten, afraid of Zeigler (and who wouldn't be) and that HE was the instigator, and she was afraid of what would happen to her if she was defiant, etc etc etc.
Which I could ALMOST buy, IF, while they were at Walmart going through seperate checkout lines, she had told someone "please call 911, my husband just killed my daughter, and I'm so frightened I don't know what to do , please help me ..."
But, no ........
museumgirl
01-29-2009, 02:21 PM
I do not buy one freaking word of it.... not one. GUILTY, GUILTY, ROT IN HELL!!!:angry:
texasgal
01-29-2009, 02:26 PM
I do not buy one freaking word of it.... not one. GUILTY, GUILTY, ROT IN HELL!!!:angry:
you don't have to yell at me... :scared:
Marcia3
01-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Which I could ALMOST buy, IF, while they were at Walmart going through seperate checkout lines, she had told someone "please call 911, my husband just killed my daughter, and I'm so frightened I don't know what to do , please help me ..."
But, no ........
ITA. From what I understand, Kim didn't make any attempts at any point to extricate herself from the situation. Once that list of rules was written, I would've been out of there...
museumgirl
01-29-2009, 03:13 PM
Not yelling at you... just the situations
What would anyone have done with his report? That a man was talking loudly to his wife, angry that the bed wasn't made and the room hadn't been straightened up? If he didn't strike her or have her cowering in a corner, and she didn't have a black eye or visible bruises, it would just look like a controlling husband, and controlling spouses are a dime a dozen in this world. Who would he have reported about tossing (throwing) the kitten?
I didn't get to see (couldn't find) what he said.. I just meant in general. Yeah, he didn't know and this guy knows now and I'm sure that he has those 'if I had only' moments... always will. But sometimes people in these types of jobs feel that it's none of their business... and yet someone from the outside can see a lot more than they imagine. I don't mean this man in particular.
taylor63
01-29-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey guys,
I live in Houston, Texas. It is still weird to me that the DA's office took the death penalty off the table. I don't really understand why?!?! It's bizarre.
During Hurricane Ike - Galveston County Jail wasn't evacuated - I was sort of hoping that would take care of these two sickos.. no such luck. :( Anyway I wish this trial would be televised. I would love to go one day and watch the proceedings but it is just one of those cases that is too sad to think about. I don't know if I am strong enough to sit through testimony of child abuse and the murder of a child.
I hope little Riley Ann gets justice too.
I do not understand it either. Seems to me neither one of the parents has shown much remorse for what happened to the little girl. I am no fan of the death penalty, but sometimes I think it is warranted when a crime is especially cruel like this one was.
aubrey04
01-29-2009, 05:07 PM
Good Gosh. They're both complete sickos. I knew they would each blame the other. They're both responsible for Riley's death and they deserve the death penalty.
One thing that has struck me as odd - there are very few pictures of Riley. I guess it isn't that odd though since she was horribly abused. I imagine she wasn't fit to be photographed with bruises all over her body.. not that they ever cared enough to take pictures of her growing up, like most parents.
I did find a few pictures of her.. She was absolutely beautiful.
http://www.daylife.com/photo/09V2arI0hw0lA
http://media.thestate.com/smedia/2009/01/25/13/139Childs_Remains.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.74 .jpg
http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/M_IMAGE.1163daadc82.93.88.fa.d0.444f208b.jpg
http://www.khou.com/news/local/crime/stories/M_IMAGE.1175910ab03.93.88.fa.d0.1f917acb.jpg
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/M_IMAGE.116c3b420b9.93.88.fa.d0.2a79b0fb.jpg
Marcia3
01-29-2009, 05:14 PM
She was beautiful. Thanks for finding those pictures.
museumgirl
01-29-2009, 05:35 PM
Didn't most of the pix come from the paternal Gramma, someone that actually seemed to love her... who could have cared for her if that lying POS mother of hers would have let them find her.....
Which I could ALMOST buy, IF, while they were at Walmart going through seperate checkout lines, she had told someone "please call 911, my husband just killed my daughter, and I'm so frightened I don't know what to do , please help me ..."
But, no ........
Exactly. Or, surely the oaf went to work the NEXT day, being as how he didn't need to take any more days off to discipline Riley. What about a call from a pay phone? Even if she left on less than good terms from her family or Riley's dad and grandmother--SOMEONE would have taken a collect call and started the ball rolling. \
Or, even better yet, how about, the first time he laid a hand on her or Riley (and I'm betting he HAD) making that collect call. Even if family was upset with her, I'm betting SOMEONE would have found a way to get her and Riley back home and out of harm's way BEFORE either of them got hurt.
What about, I love this man I found on the internet, but he doesn't take to kindly to my baby. I want to stay with him, I need a man, etc etc etc. I'll call my mom and tell her someone has to come take Riley, because she is messing up what I have with this wonderful man. Again, I'm betting that in a heart beat someone would have traveled to TX and taken Riley back home.
Good Gosh. They're both complete sickos. I knew they would each blame the other. They're both responsible for Riley's death and they deserve the death penalty.
One thing that has struck me as odd - there are very few pictures of Riley. I guess it isn't that odd though since she was horribly abused. I imagine she wasn't fit to be photographed with bruises all over her body.. not that they ever cared enough to take pictures of her growing up, like most parents.
I did find a few pictures of her.. She was absolutely beautiful.
http://www.daylife.com/photo/09V2arI0hw0lA
http://media.thestate.com/smedia/2009/01/25/13/139Childs_Remains.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.74 .jpg
http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/M_IMAGE.1163daadc82.93.88.fa.d0.444f208b.jpg
http://www.khou.com/news/local/crime/stories/M_IMAGE.1175910ab03.93.88.fa.d0.1f917acb.jpg
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/M_IMAGE.116c3b420b9.93.88.fa.d0.2a79b0fb.jpg
I don't know if there were any pics from when they moved to TX. I can't remember how long they had been gone, but it was only a matter of months. I think most of the pics we have seen are from Ohio, pics Cheryl Sawyers had. Even the one I saw of Kim and Riley--it was taken in snow, and while TX might get snow on occasion, there was a LOT of snow, and I don't know that they were in TX during any of the winter months.
I do not understand it either. Seems to me neither one of the parents has shown much remorse for what happened to the little girl. I am no fan of the death penalty, but sometimes I think it is warranted when a crime is especially cruel like this one was.
Now, they will each say how sorry they are that Riley is dead, but each will maintain they show no remorse because the other killed Riley. IF that were true--that would still mean neither would have remorse for watching the other kill Riley and do nothing to stop it. GUILTY OF THE MURDER OF RILEY SAWYER, BOTH. PERIOD.
lunchlady
01-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Exactly. Or, surely the oaf went to work the NEXT day, being as how he didn't need to take any more days off to discipline Riley. What about a call from a pay phone? Even if she left on less than good terms from her family or Riley's dad and grandmother--SOMEONE would have taken a collect call and started the ball rolling. \
Or, even better yet, how about, the first time he laid a hand on her or Riley (and I'm betting he HAD) making that collect call. Even if family was upset with her, I'm betting SOMEONE would have found a way to get her and Riley back home and out of harm's way BEFORE either of them got hurt.
What about, I love this man I found on the internet, but he doesn't take to kindly to my baby. I want to stay with him, I need a man, etc etc etc. I'll call my mom and tell her someone has to come take Riley, because she is messing up what I have with this wonderful man. Again, I'm betting that in a heart beat someone would have traveled to TX and taken Riley back home.
Those all sound like great ideas. But she apparently wasn't very good at problem solving AND wasn't determined to protect her child. She also might have been too selfish to give Riley up.
A Nutter Mutter
01-29-2009, 06:51 PM
I don't know if there were any pics from when they moved to TX. I can't remember how long they had been gone, but it was only a matter of months. I think most of the pics we have seen are from Ohio, pics Cheryl Sawyers had. Even the one I saw of Kim and Riley--it was taken in snow, and while TX might get snow on occasion, there was a LOT of snow, and I don't know that they were in TX during any of the winter months.
What a beautiful child! Until the day I leave this world, I will never understand how people can abuse children. Give them away, don't torture them, FGS!
Thank you for sharing the pics.
Motomom
01-29-2009, 07:22 PM
I could see where her attorney is going. Ms Trenor, while Mr Zeigler was talking loudly to her, "didn't say two words." They are going to try to show that she was brow-beaten, afraid of Zeigler (and who wouldn't be) and that HE was the instigator, and she was afraid of what would happen to her if she was defiant, etc etc etc.
That is probably what they will do. She looks meek.. wasn't so meek, or is it meak..when she was helping beat and dunk her babies head under water. Wasn't so meak when she helped pack her in ice.. And even if she had gotton that far, out of fear of him, which I'll never believe, when that baby said mommy I love you, she should have freaked out and snatched that baby, called 911, taken her to the hospital.. she did nothing and any mother that could sit back and watch a man beat on her child, and help out and watch her child be thrown by her hair.. she deserves nothing but death.. I don't care what anyone thinks about the dp.. kill her.. she is not fit to be human, let alone given a chance to have more babies.. makes me sick to my stomach. How does a mother do this?? How? We aren't suppose to KILL our babies, and we are suppose to protect them.. heck.. my bestfriend yelled at my son a bit too much for my liking one time, and it was deserved..to an extent..but just hearing her talking to my son like that made my skin crawl.. my blood was boiling. Had she attempted to strike him in any way, I'd have beat her down right then and there..
Motomom
01-29-2009, 07:26 PM
Which I could ALMOST buy, IF, while they were at Walmart going through seperate checkout lines, she had told someone "please call 911, my husband just killed my daughter, and I'm so frightened I don't know what to do , please help me ..."
But, no ........
Exactly.. if he did what he did and she couldn't help at all.. IF..which whatever.. When she was in the checkout line..911 would have been called and cops there immediately, he wouldnt' have been able to hurt her.. so why didn't she? Because she's a scumbag that's why and didn't care what he had done to her 2 yr old.. not a wink. I remember back yrs ago seeing a woman on TV talk about her boyfriend who had raped and killed her 18 month old son (if I recall correctly, he had died) and she was on the news..days later saying that she FORGIVES him.. That did me in for a long time, I was so disturbed. i don't knwo why I follow these cases because it ways on my mind so much to know that we have evil evil people out there.
A Nutter Mutter
01-29-2009, 08:13 PM
That is probably what they will do. She looks meek.. wasn't so meek, or is it meak..when she was helping beat and dunk her babies head under water. Wasn't so meak when she helped pack her in ice.. And even if she had gotton that far, out of fear of him, which I'll never believe, when that baby said mommy I love you, she should have freaked out and snatched that baby, called 911, taken her to the hospital.. she did nothing and any mother that could sit back and watch a man beat on her child, and help out and watch her child be thrown by her hair.. she deserves nothing but death.. I don't care what anyone thinks about the dp.. kill her.. she is not fit to be human, let alone given a chance to have more babies.. makes me sick to my stomach. How does a mother do this?? How? We aren't suppose to KILL our babies, and we are suppose to protect them.. heck.. my bestfriend yelled at my son a bit too much for my liking one time, and it was deserved..to an extent..but just hearing her talking to my son like that made my skin crawl.. my blood was boiling. Had she attempted to strike him in any way, I'd have beat her down right then and there..
Yes, Trenor helped and here's what I'm wondering: Did Trenor abuse her baby prior to meeting Zeigler? If she didn't, then I don't understand how she could even begin to get into the dastardly deeds they did to this sweet, little child. If she did abuse her prior to Zeigler, then I can make some sense into her getting involved. Don't get me wrong, I'm not even making an excuse for her, just trying to understand the dynamics. Either way, she's just as guilty as Zeigler is and it's a shame the DP isn't on the table for these two filthy creatures! JMVHO
God bless this child, she didn't deserve this. :rose:
cantstandnuts
01-29-2009, 08:37 PM
I can't begin to fathom how she could possibly smile at anything! When each of my children were this age it was nothing but a glorious time for me watching them grow and learn. I couldn't wait until I got off work to pick them up and always looked forward to the evening with them. We had picnics on the floor and watched TV, read books, etc., sounds like Baby Riley had none of that. JMO
I do believe these adults will rot in hell, MVOO.
I can't pretend that I haven't gotten exasperated with my children at times, even when they were tiny like Riley, but I don't understand how anyone can possibly do what this mother did and it makes me sick to my stomach to think people actually have this in them. As someone else said, children learn by example, not by written rules, although IMO those were likely written by a sick and twisted excuse for a man for the little woman to follow while he was at work and couldn't then be in total dominant control. Gross Creep, he is. Anyway, as sick as he is and as much as I believe he started this, she played along when she should have protected her child. She couldn't be more pathetic.
If they had been decent people who could treat people the way they wanted to be treated, this little innocent child would have learned by example. It was so preventable, so sick and it is so heartbreaking. :sad:
cantstandnuts
01-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Thanks for the link, SoggyBayou. The readers' comments were interesting, and as far as I got, pretty much say the same as people on message boards. Seems no love is lost for this "mom" and her hubby.
I'll say. I don't know that I've ever had as much contempt for anyone as I have for these two. It's sick as sick gets.
cantstandnuts
01-29-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm sorry... I hate that crap... my bio father beat the crap out of my mom all during their marriage, her pregnancy and afterwards... the minute he even looked my direction she bailed... she left him and the state even... she didn't even care that she took me across state lines to get away from him.... and I don't care how scared I am or what could happen to me.... I will be a dead and bloody pile of pulp on the ground before someone... ANYONE touches my child in a violent manner!!!
Yup. You had a mother and your children have a mother. Riley didn't have a mother, not in the true sense of the word.
Exactly.. if he did what he did and she couldn't help at all.. IF..which whatever.. When she was in the checkout line..911 would have been called and cops there immediately, he wouldnt' have been able to hurt her.. so why didn't she? Because she's a scumbag that's why and didn't care what he had done to her 2 yr old.. not a wink. I remember back yrs ago seeing a woman on TV talk about her boyfriend who had raped and killed her 18 month old son (if I recall correctly, he had died) and she was on the news..days later saying that she FORGIVES him.. That did me in for a long time, I was so disturbed. i don't knwo why I follow these cases because it ways on my mind so much to know that we have evil evil people out there.
I remember quite a few years back, an 8mo old baby had died after her dad had penetrated her. (I don't recall if it was w/his finger or otherwise.) Evidently there had been manipulations going on for @ least a time before that (as in months or weeks, not just that day.) Anyway, there was a film crew across a football field from the church where the funeral was--were ordered to go no closer. But, some bimbo aunt of the baby talked to the reporter. Her words? Give this poor man a break, he didn't MEAN for the baby to die!!! He is hurting sooo much now!!!! :cursing::cursing::cursing: Can you IMAGINE? I was up and screaming @ the tv, wishing I could my hands not only around the neck of the POS SOB who did that, but the absolutely STUPID, IGNORANT......words escape me.....person who was wanting people to FEEL SORRY for him!!!!
A Nutter Mutter
01-29-2009, 11:02 PM
I can't pretend that I haven't gotten exasperated with my children at times, even when they were tiny like Riley, but I don't understand how anyone can possibly do what this mother did and it makes me sick to my stomach to think people actually have this in them. As someone else said, children learn by example, not by written rules, although IMO those were likely written by a sick and twisted excuse for a man for the little woman to follow while he was at work and couldn't then be in total dominant control. Gross Creep, he is. Anyway, as sick as he is and as much as I believe he started this, she played along when she should have protected her child. She couldn't be more pathetic.
If they had been decent people who could treat people the way they wanted to be treated, this little innocent child would have learned by example. It was so preventable, so sick and it is so heartbreaking. :sad:
Oh believe me, both of my kids got on my last nerve at times, but I dealt with it. I gave them something to do to divert their attention, we reasonable parents know what to do with each of our respective kids. I didn't beat either of my kids, torture them, hold their heads under water, etc. You can always get them interested in a puzzle, video, ice cream time, game, depending on their age, good parents know how to handle their children. My "kids" are now 28 and 18. My 28 yr. old daughter, now married, wants me to keep her children when they come along. That tells me so much, I must have done something right. Poor little Riley, it appears to me, didn't have the kind of mother all children deserve and evidently she didn't have the time with a loving grandparent, what a shame! This case just makes me sick to my stomach. A true mother will do anything to protect her children when they are too young and small to protect themselves. And of course this is all MVOHO.
No doubt in my mind the child was abused by both of them from the time that %^&* woman got to Texas and hooked up with that loser. They are both sociopaths and should never be allowed in society. The child they had together is with the murderess' family. Great job CPS. Don't tell me this child would not be in danger from this evil, sadistic woman if she ever does get out of prison which I hope and pray never happens. You can't tell me either of these slime bags are from normal, stable families. Also the DA saying they didn't go for the DP because they couldn't prove they were a danger to society. Yea, they murder a child in cold blood (they planned this)and they aren't a danger to other children. This made up story about them trying to commit suicide gets me even madder then they are blaming each other. These two murderers will rot in %^&*, that I am sure about.
SoggyBayou
01-30-2009, 01:29 AM
The testimony of the Geek Squad shows that Kim and Royce wanting to get the printer networked had more important things on their mind. It also shows that the smell in the garage is another location that Riley's body was kept.
Also, Kim and Royce volunteered the belts for examination. Which no blood was found. Was there another instrument used that LE does not know about?
Oral and rectal slides with presence of Riley's blood? Sick, dark and evil couple that show no remorse.
:angry::angry::angry:
aproudmom
01-30-2009, 04:51 AM
This is so sick what is this world coming to. Children are gifts from god. I HOPE THEY BOTH ROT IN H***.I blame the mother more she was suppose tp protect her child not allow some guy off the net to beat her to death.:angry:
Heidi J.
01-30-2009, 10:16 AM
This is so sick what is this world coming to. Children are gifts from god. I HOPE THEY BOTH ROT IN H***.I blame the mother more she was suppose tp protect her child not allow some guy off the net to beat her to death.:angry:
You are right.. it does make the mother more responsible. God, I cannot even look at the picture of Riley anymore, without thinking of the prosecutors opening statement..
I rarely ever even spank my kids, not because I don't believe in spanking, but because the look in their eyes when I do. I can't fathom what would make a parent take it to the next level..let alone beating your child as they say they love you..:crying:
This case reminds me alot of the Breanna Lopez case. I thought that one was bad.. but this one is right up there with it..
I will be extremely disappointed if either get less then the DP.:cursing:
Marcia3
01-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Oh, that picture of that guy has chilled me to the bone!
museumgirl
01-30-2009, 01:06 PM
This case reminds me alot of the Breanna Lopez case.
The one where the ONLY picture of this little girl that existed was done at the autopsy.... that broke my heart. My co-workers used to tease me saying there was no way I only had two kids ~ I had (I counted when I left) 56 pictures of my kids in my office.... as well as cousins, neighbor kids, friends kids.... there is nothing like looking up at any point in the day and being able to see a smile from your child looking back at you....
It's a shame that there isn't a way of controlling who can have kids.... that there isn't a test... some sort of way to weed out the ones w/o that gene that is needed to be a true parent... not just the ones that gives birth.
This little angel could have lived a full and healthy, happy life if her egg donor had just been unselfish enough for one minute to leave her behind; ironically, she was probably nervous about being called a bad mother!!!! That would have been an improvement to what I'm calling her now.
museumgirl
01-30-2009, 01:08 PM
I blame the mother more
I always blame the actual parent more... whether it be mom or dad who stood by and did NOTHING... they are the ones to blame even more than the evil hand that did the harm.
lunchlady
01-30-2009, 02:04 PM
Imagine these two wallowing in their despair! How feeble and disgusting. They were just worried about going to jail.
The "family" picture is creepy. The females smiling so big, the man looking like he's incapable of smiling. The little girl looks so sunny. Maybe she hadn't been "disciplined" yet. Mom's fantasy of a happy new family still hadn't evaporated.
He looks like one of those morose goons the mob keeps around to do the dirty work. Guess he missed his calling and ended up being a child killer instead.
Oh my gosh. LOOK at this family portrait of the 3 of them. This article appeared in my morning paper, and my jaw just dropped.
Chills. A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/01/30/0130babygrace.html
Zeigler's remarks to a relative-they've found Kim to be a sociopath? Hadn't heard that. Even so, just as, if it were true that she stood by and let HIM kill Riley, or assisted in the beating but didn't do the throw that killed her, or held her head underwater, that SHE should be convicted OF MURDER and get the highest sentence, so should it be if HE was the watcher, assister and she the murderer. EACH SHOULD BE CONVICTED AND GET THE HIGHEST SENTENCE.
Like I said a few posts back, I sure hope that, once she is convicted, that HE doesn't cop some kind of plea where he will admit to accomplice and get off with 15 years or so, like what happened in the Marcus case in Ohio (sorry can't remember the poor tyke's last name.)
Or, if they don't find her guilty of the murder (shudder to think of that, but you can never tell what a jury is going to do) but of something lesser, or of nothing @ all, I fear he will cop a plea (because, if SHE's not guilty HE has to be) and still get a deal on the sentencing. Which, IMO is why DP should have been on the table, let them "plea down" to LWOP.
And, I do hope it is LWOP and not some namby-pamby sentence like Life, or 25 to life, whatever, cuz that means there is the potential to get out on parole @ some time. Just like we can't be absolutely sure what a jury will decide, we can't be absolutely sure about a parole board's decisions. They sure parole people I don't think should ever see the light of day.
Marcia3
01-30-2009, 04:17 PM
Marcus Feisel.
Yes, David Carroll copped a plea and rec'd a much lighter sentence than his wife. She was tried first and got life. I think he got 15 years to life.
Never understood why he was allowed to do that since he was no less guilty of Marcus' death than was his wife. Seems like Liz should've held out for a later trial...maybe she would've gotten the better deal.
Not that any of that matters as far as this case is concerned, but ITA on being frustrated that it is a possibility that this POS who killed Riley, with help from his wife, might get a lighter sentence because he makes a deal rather than go to trial.
A Nutter Mutter
01-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Oh my gosh. LOOK at this family portrait of the 3 of them. This article appeared in my morning paper, and my jaw just dropped.
Chills. A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.statesman.com/search/content/news/stories/local/01/30/0130babygrace.html
OMG, he looks like the evil, wicked creature I believe him to be! I can't imagine Riley having to live with him and what her life must have been like. That poor baby, I can't get her off my mind.
A Nutter Mutter
01-30-2009, 04:24 PM
I always blame the actual parent more... whether it be mom or dad who stood by and did NOTHING... they are the ones to blame even more than the evil hand that did the harm.
Same here!
museumgirl
01-30-2009, 05:40 PM
To that little girl I'm sure the face of her mother was far scarier.... that was the person she loved and trusted and therefore even MORE of a monster.
A Nutter Mutter
01-30-2009, 06:30 PM
I know, it's awful, isn't it? That picture looks like one of those horror movie pictures where you can see a silhouette shadow of an arm holding a butcher knife poised over someone's head, and they have their backs turned.
That face, with that expression, was the last thing that poor little girl saw on this earth.
Oh I know, horror movie for sure! People like these two obviously don't like children, why have them and/or be around them? It just makes no sense to me, non whatsoever!
A Nutter Mutter
01-30-2009, 06:33 PM
To that little girl I'm sure the face of her mother was far scarier.... that was the person she loved and trusted and therefore even MORE of a monster.
You've got a very good point there, MG. The person she loved was helping to torture her and eventually kill her. Madness, true madness!
Annie143
01-31-2009, 12:59 AM
I am glad to see interest picking up on this thread. So many posters follow Caylee, understandably so, but this trial is underway and equally horrific a case .IMO. One needs company to follow something this awful!I havent moved around these boards much lately and just started reading the details of this case. I am appalled and deeply saddened.
Someone said they didnt think they could attend the trial and listen to the abuse being described. I could read the dailies on Chandler Grafners case, it was just too horrible. When I did, I had to move away from it for some time......I do not know how the police and officers of the courts can do this kind of thing.....
God bless little Riley. The "mommy, I love you." got me.
Annie143
01-31-2009, 01:33 AM
I could NOTread the dailies on Chandler Grafners case, it was just too horrible. When I did, I had to move away from it for some time......Ijust clarification.
museumgirl
01-31-2009, 12:12 PM
I had to step away from this case before.... it was getting to me too much. And my daughters picked up on my sadness and I couldn't do that to them... but I think about this angel ALL the time.
Crispy
01-31-2009, 03:56 PM
I'm just catching up here so I apologize if these pics have already been posted.
Pics of her headstone
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=275628319&blogID=415890437
I'm just catching up here so I apologize if these pics have already been posted.
Pics of her headstone
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=275628319&blogID=415890437
Thank you for posting. I hadn't seen it. It's beautiful, as Riley is.
GentleBreeze
02-01-2009, 10:06 AM
To that little girl I'm sure the face of her mother was far scarier.... that was the person she loved and trusted and therefore even MORE of a monster.
ITA!
When I try to keep up with some of these heartbreaking cases, sometimes I just have to step away.
I feel so much rage toward Riley's "mother."
She truly was the monster in Riley's life and to know those hardened, unfeeling eyes, were the last Riley saw leaves me twisted in pain for Riley. May she rest in peace now.
A child is to look into the soft gentle and understanding eyes of their mother or their father and feel they are protected.
When the parents become the ones that the children must fear the most, then this is the tragic results. Riley was such a beautiful child and I am sure if she had been given the chance of a happy life, there would be many who would have loved to have her sweet smile and gentle ways in their lives and hearts.
I am so sickened by all these mothers who are murdering their children and do so in such depraved, torturous ways. I feel even more anger toward them when they try to blame their own sick actions on a man.
One has to be capable of doing these things. It has to come from a black heart, where the child is not seen worthy but just an obstacle in the path, for these mothers. No loving mother could look into her child's innocent and trusting eyes and be capable of doing this to them. Not even if they had a gun held to their head. A true and loving mother would die trying to protect their children.
I worry about so many of our children across our country. Riley is just one of many and imo, it will continue. Not a week goes by it seems that we don't read or hear about another tragic death for a defenseless child, who never had a chance.
imoo
Heidi J.
02-01-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm just catching up here so I apologize if these pics have already been posted.
Pics of her headstone
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=275628319&blogID=415890437
Beautiful.. thanks for sharing.:crying:
Heidi J.
02-01-2009, 10:32 AM
I had to step away from this case before.... it was getting to me too much. And my daughters picked up on my sadness and I couldn't do that to them... but I think about this angel ALL the time.
I think this happens to most of us. I can't read the details of most cases..:crying: My children can also tell with me too..
Neffy
02-01-2009, 02:40 PM
I'm just catching up here so I apologize if these pics have already been posted.
Pics of her headstone
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=275628319&blogID=415890437
TY for posting that. My that is beautiful! So sad to see the BABY GRACE inscription on the back. That was a name given out of love and compassion by the people of Galveston for her so first I was a little shocked but now think it was a lovely thing to add.
museumgirl
02-02-2009, 01:31 PM
What a wonderful sentiment to those people who worked so hard to give her a name..... you know it drives me nuts when I hear people talk smack about cops and use all their little 'terms' for them.... you couldn't pay me all the $$ in the world to do this job.... and for those who take it to heart and are determined to find justice for those who deserve it.... my heart goes out to you in both compassion and appreciation.....
della_17_99
02-02-2009, 03:51 PM
I re-read the probable cause reports OMG!
I can't even believe this one's even going to trial.
I guess when two are involved they have the option to roll the dice and point fingers at each other.
Both will be found guilty IMO.
Hey all... now this is one horiffic case to be sure, what a waste. We have 5 boys and even though we're done having kids there was a time I would have given my right arm and leg for a girl, especially one like this.
I'm pretty new here, and have some reading to do, but would someone give me the link so I can read the probable cause reports? TIA. (Bolding mine)
Crispy
02-02-2009, 04:43 PM
This link has some stuff. If you scroll a little to the blue box
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080116_ac_babygracefuneral.29f09713.html
Crispy
02-02-2009, 04:46 PM
So according to this, it's done and the judge is expected to turn over the case this afternoon. The jury might already have it.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/261.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486804,00.html
Neffy
02-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Hey all... now this is one horiffic case to be sure, what a waste. We have 5 boys and even though we're done having kids there was a time I would have given my right arm and leg for a girl, especially one like this.
I'm pretty new here, and have some reading to do, but would someone give me the link so I can read the probable cause reports? TIA. (Bolding mine)
Welcome to the board (and the 5 boy club lol).
New article Ziegler invokes the 5th.
Let me see if I can find that report for you. :)
Neffy
02-02-2009, 04:49 PM
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080116_ac_babygracefuneral.29f09713.html
Probable cause report - scroll down in blue box.
Neffy
02-02-2009, 05:00 PM
So according to this, it's done and the judge is expected to turn over the case this afternoon. The jury might already have it.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/261.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486804,00.html
:eek:ooooooooooo
"It was noticed, however, on at least one occassion, the lady juror seemed to have fallen asleep in the jury box."
OH Gimme A break!
della_17_99
02-02-2009, 05:11 PM
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080116_ac_babygracefuneral.29f09713.html
Probable cause report - scroll down in blue box.
Hey there... thanks for the link and more importantly, the welcome. :smile:
della_17_99
02-02-2009, 05:22 PM
I read the probable cause reports and all I can say is OMG. What monsters. Pity they aren't up against the death penalty, because if there was ever a case that deserved it.....:glare:
I read the probable cause reports and all I can say is OMG. What monsters. Pity they aren't up against the death penalty, because if there was ever a case that deserved it.....:glare:
I think the DP should be on the table, too. For one thing, not being able to PROVE they would be a danger to others in the future. What, we're going to let them have another chance to kill another baby? Let's just sit back and "hope for the best?" For another, especially after Kim Trenor is found guilty (and I cannot for my life see that she would not be) Zeigler has the chance to plea down, probably for admitting a "small role" in the death of Riley Sawyer, and get just a handful of years, and if he can grow up and behave himself, probably time off for good behaviour. If the DP was on the line, he could plea down to LWOP.
Of course his family is going to say what a wonderful father figure he was, but--when Riley and Kim were with Cheryl Sawyer, there was no history of beating Riley (but, if IIRC when this was first discussed, it seems that Kim did not take the major role of parent, that was more left to Cheryl?) So, the HISTORY of abuse to Riley before the move to TX is NONEXISTANT. Then, Kim had to learn how to be a mom, and probably did NOT do well w/disciplining, but it seems she and Zeigler were in this together, not JUST how Kim would discipline, but the two together.
I am big, strong too. This case has brought me to my knnees. Several other cases also. What is the deal with these parents? A child being hit with a belt!! How sorrowful. These two perps should be hit with belts, have their heads held under water, thrown across the room. I'll bet if you ask them WHY? They would say "she deserved it, she wouldn't behave". Sick, sick, sick.
May I ask if this case is live tv. If so, how can I find it. TIA BTW: I have satellite tv.
I am big, strong too. This case has brought me to my knnees. Several other cases also. What is the deal with these parents? A child being hit with a belt!! How sorrowful. These two perps should be hit with belts, have their heads held under water, thrown across the room. I'll bet if you ask them WHY? They would say "she deserved it, she wouldn't behave". Sick, sick, sick.
May I ask if this case is live tv. If so, how can I find it. TIA BTW: I have satellite tv.
I don't think it's being televised. (But, if I am wrong, someone will correct me and give you the info.) I do think SEEING the people as they talk, and HEARING the inflections of their voices is better than to read the reporter's interpretation, or just the words. (Altho, the reporting on this seems to be very good.)
juliekan
02-02-2009, 07:14 PM
This link has some stuff. If you scroll a little to the blue box
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080116_ac_babygracefuneral.29f09713.html
I just watched this channel's news report at 5pm. It's gone to the jury. The closing argument by the prosecutor (as reported) started with him slamming his hand on the table three times and saying that that was Riley's head................:eek:
No it is not televised
logbump
02-02-2009, 08:29 PM
What a difference between this case and the Caylee circus.I hope the outcome will be the same!
Neffy
02-02-2009, 08:29 PM
OH YES!
One down one to go!
:rose: Riley :rose:
:rose: Riley :rose:
Rest in Peace little one.
FrankieBones1
02-02-2009, 08:52 PM
What a difference between this case and the Caylee circus.I hope the outcome will be the same!
I barely heard anything about this case in the news. Didn't realize it had gone to trial until someone mentioned the verdict on another board here.
I'm happy this monster was found guilty. But why isn't she facing the death penalty?
SoggyBayou
02-02-2009, 09:06 PM
Day 5
Monday, February 2, 2009
Day 5 - Afternoon
The case went to the jury at 4 o'clock this afternoon, at 5:45pm they notified the judge they had already reached a verdict. Shortly after 6pm the jury was read. Guilty as Charged, Guity of Capital Murder. Unless something happens later on appeal, Kimberly Dawn Trenor will spend the rest of her life in a Texas prison for murdering her own 2-year old daughter, Riley Ann Sawyer, the infamous Baby Grace.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/261.htm
cantstandnuts
02-02-2009, 09:11 PM
Day 5
Monday, February 2, 2009
Day 5 - Afternoon
The case went to the jury at 4 o'clock this afternoon, at 5:45pm they notified the judge they had already reached a verdict. Shortly after 6pm the jury was read. Guilty as Charged, Guity of Capital Murder. Unless something happens later on appeal, Kimberly Dawn Trenor will spend the rest of her life in a Texas prison for murdering her own 2-year old daughter, Riley Ann Sawyer, the infamous Baby Grace.
http://www.galvestonpolicenews.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/261.htm
Justice for one, now on to the other and I sure hope for the same result.
RIP Riley Ann Sawyers, you deserved so much better than this.
GentleBreeze
02-02-2009, 09:21 PM
I am thinking about Riley as she is now buried very near to my location. Even thought the natural dad wasn't much of a father in Riley's life, her grandmother was and she raised her. Why did the mother take part in Riley's death?
It's really a shock to the community that they even lived nearby here.
May Riley rest in peace and may Riley's grandmother find peace also.
I can't say the same for the natural father, but I do pity him, as I do know he really didn't hold a lot of beans in Riley's life. And perhaps he could have toed up to the plate and have shown Riley and her mother a better life. Maybe Riley would still be alive today if Riley's dad had been a better father and supporter to Riley's mother.
You don't live with a women, have a child with her and go around cheating, lying, bashing and abusing her with a child in her arms, and also go around sleeping with another women. Then getting your new girlfriend PG and expect what of the mother of your child and your baby to do? I do NOT blame the natural father that he did not par take in Riley's death but he sure didn't take care of Riley or her mother.
I do know that is not an excuse for murdering of a child, but but if only, I guess one asks. Riley's father should have and could have done more for Riley.
THIS may then have never happened.
Kimberly is guilty but
Riley's father is not so innocent either. He was a dead beat father to Riley. He cheated and ran around on Riley's mother and got another girl PG and shut out Kimberly and Riley.
IMO
I don't blame anyone but these two monsters who did this to Riley. There are a lot of single parents out there that have to raise their children on their own without the mother or father and they don't wind up in a box filled with concrete.
If anything it should have made Riley's mother more cautious who she brought into Riley's life as a male father figure but she was as despicable as the man.
Riley's biological father had no part in this horror.... Kimberly and her POS man did.
imoo
GentleBreeze
02-02-2009, 09:29 PM
Too bad Riley's natural father isn't behind bars with her. As Riley's father was a cheater, bashed and
abused them both per charges filed in the county. Then Robert Sawyers (Riley's father) got another girl PG and Kim and Riley moved out. Riley's father was a dead beat, cheating father on Riley and an abuser. Oh yea Riley's father's charges were dropped when Kim was arrested.
Although Riley's natural father was not responsible for Riley's death he was IMO responsible in other ways.
IMO
Rest in peace little Riley.
I'll stop by for a visit next time I'm at the Mentor Cemetery as I visit other loved ones.
Then it was best he was not in her life. At least he never did Riley this way.
There are many dead beat, cheating men and women in this country but that is nothing nearly equaling to what Riley suffered at the hands of these two sadistic people.
Hengirl
02-02-2009, 09:34 PM
GUILTY!
Not surpised. May she burn in hell and worse. I can't believe shes my age.
cantstandnuts
02-02-2009, 09:34 PM
Then it was best he was not in her life. At least he never did Riley this way.
There are many dead beat, cheating men and women in this country but that is nothing nearly equaling to what Riley suffered at the hands of these two sadistic people.
That's for sure and I so agree, GB.
He may have been many things, but Riley's biological father wasn't a sadistic murderer, like these two. In fact, had she stayed with him and his mother, she likely would be alive today...happy and thriving. The blame for her senseless murder rests on them, nobody else. IMO
cantstandnuts
02-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Riley's mother was living with Riley's father and his family and dear daddy was sleeping in the same house with another girl, is that a responsible father for your child? I do agree the natural father of Riley did not have a part in Riley's death but he sure was not a responsible parent of Riley or her mother and he drove them out of his mother's home after the domestic violence charges.
Both of Riley's parents were somewhat responsible for that baby.
They were both unfit parents. Poor Riley she didn't have a chance at life with either.
imo
She had more than a chance, had she been left with Sheryl Sawyers. You can blame her biological father all you want, but she ended up in a plastic container, because her mother and that CREEP put her there. It's that simple.
cantstandnuts
02-02-2009, 09:49 PM
Right but I don't give the bio dad a pass either.
Kim left because Riley's dad was sleeping with another girl, abused both Kim and with Riley in her arms...yea charges were dropped but.
I do hold the mother responsible for her child and I do also hold the natural father somewhat for not being the father he could have been to Riley also.
IMO
That's your right, but in my world, being a jerk doesn't equal being a murderer, so he's not responsible for this diabolical crime. It would not have happened if the mother had cared enough for this child to avoid beating her with a belt and had stopped that PIG from slamming her onto the floor, plain and simple. If the witch had been a real mother, none of this would have happened.
cantstandnuts
02-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Why don't you read a post before you comment? Did you not read, I did post the mother was responsible for Riley's murder?
I stated imo that I don't give the bio dad a pass either as he really was the cause of them moving even though it was Kim's decision, the father of Riley as an abuser, dead beat dad is I what I hold him responsible for.
Get it this post instead of your own views only..??
Please respond to the father as I already stated that the mother was responsible for the murder.
The bio father is responsible for the reasons only I stated which was not Riley's murder....duh...??
IMO
Please don't DUH me. I read your post and I replied that being a jerk doesn't equal being a murderer, nor does it make him responsible for this senseless act. He is NOT responsible that this child ended up in a plastic container, dead. He's irresponsible, but I doubt, that left with him, she'd have ended up that way. ERGO, he is not responsible. IMO
juliekan
02-03-2009, 12:28 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6242162.html
Verdict in Baby Grace: Guilty
Mother of 2-year-old will get life sentence for capital murder
There is also a video at this site.
5boxersmom
02-03-2009, 12:29 AM
RIP Riley :rose:
I am glad for the guilty verdict. I followed this case at the beginning then I had to stop. It was getting to me bad. I feel for Sheryl her grandmother very much. I bet Riley missed her so much. So sad.
Now I want to see the step dad found guilty also.
Riley :rose:
Right but I don't give the bio dad a pass either.
Kim left because Riley's dad was sleeping with another girl, abused both Kim and with Riley in her arms...yea charges were dropped but.
I do hold the mother responsible for her child and I do also hold the natural father somewhat for not being the father he could have been to Riley also.
IMO
Perhaps he could have been the father he should be, had Kim sent Riley back to the grandmother as soon as she figured out her new love of her life was going to physically abuse Riley. Even if SHE wanted to stay w/him, she should have loved her little girl enough to send her back home.
Besides, from what I remember reading about the case when it first came up, it doesn't seem like Kim was the mother she could have been to Riley, either. Seems most of the parenting and mothering came from Grandma Sawyer, while "mom" Kim played her warlord whatever games on the computer.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6242162.html
Verdict in Baby Grace: Guilty
Mother of 2-year-old will get life sentence for capital murder
There is also a video at this site.
LWOP, as is fitting. Well, DP would have been fitting, but without parole is the next best thing.
“She will die in prison with this verdict,” said Trenor’s attorney, Tommy Stickler Jr. of Alvin. She long ago may have resigned herself to a guilty verdict, Stickler said.
Uhmmm, Mr. Stickler, I hate to break it to you, but isn't that exactly what LWOP means? That she will die in prison. Exactly. That is kind of the purpose, you know!!!!:tongueside:
RIP Riley :rose:
I am glad for the guilty verdict. I followed this case at the beginning then I had to stop. It was getting to me bad. I feel for Sheryl her grandmother very much. I bet Riley missed her so much. So sad.
Now I want to see the step dad found guilty also.
Riley :rose:
I'm hoping any chances of pleas have already gone past a deadline, or that the DA will not consider any kind of plea from this POS to prevent him from getting LWOP, also.
ortiga
02-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Riley's mother was living with Riley's father and his family and dear daddy was sleeping in the same house with another girl, is that a responsible father for your child? I do agree the natural father of Riley did not have a part in Riley's death but he sure was not a responsible parent of Riley or her mother and he drove them out of his mother's home after the domestic violence charges.
Both of Riley's parents were somewhat responsible for that baby.
They were both unfit parents. Poor Riley she didn't have a chance at life with either.
imo
You seem to be coming down on the natural father, who wasn't even there, with extraordinary harshness.
I don't have the link now, but IIRC Riley's natural father was not convicted of violence toward Riley's mother. Do you have a link to the contrary? You mention the "domestic violence charges"....what was the result of the investigation?
And, I think you should think twice before you accuse him of being an "unfit" parent.
JMO
Motomom
02-03-2009, 09:07 AM
Glad to see a verdict is in, glad to see it didn't take long, hope this monster lives a very long long life..locked up in a little bitty cell. I with the dp was on the table because that's what she deserved. Course being so young, she has a long road ahead of her.. maybe the memory of her broken daughter stay with her morning noon and night.
MoonShadow
02-03-2009, 10:46 AM
Right but I don't give the bio dad a pass either.
Kim left because Riley's dad was sleeping with another girl, abused both Kim and with Riley in her arms...yea charges were dropped but.
I do hold the mother responsible for her child and I do also hold the natural father somewhat for not being the father he could have been to Riley also.
IMO
duh to YOU! The bio father is a victim here - he lost a daughter - I think it's beyond cruel to trash a victim. But you go right ahead a spew if it makes you feel better.
museumgirl
02-03-2009, 12:05 PM
Maybe he could have been a better father had the POS that gave birth to Riley not hid her... not lied about where they lived and made it impossible for them to find her ~ maybe if they could have found her the court system would have allowed him to take Riley home where she could have been raised by her Grandmother and father.... I highly doubt she would have ended up dead and discarded if she would have.
The blame falls SQUARELY on that childs mother..... for lack of a term that won't get me banned!
Riley, may your heart rest in peace.
aubrey04
02-03-2009, 02:20 PM
GUILTY!
Not surpised. May she burn in hell and worse. I can't believe shes my age.
She's going to spend a long, long, long time in prison. She's only 20 yo and she has a mandatory sentence of LWOP. If she lives to 65 yo - she will be in prison for 45 years... yikes!
I would take the death penalty over that fate any day.
aubrey04
02-03-2009, 02:22 PM
I have to wonder what would have happened if the fisherman hadn't found Riley's remains on that isolated island. I am glad that Riley's paternal grandmother forged ahead ..without her - Riley wouldn't have gotten justice.
I am just grateful that her remains were found (along with Caylee's).. Sometimes it seems like a needle in a haystack & impossible (like with Stacy Peterson) to find "missing" persons.
The woman is evil, devious , and a sadistic predator. I am amazed she was able to hook up with a man with the same traits. Thank goodness she won't have a chance to do this to another child. This crime was planned, and she kept a journal of how she tortured Riley. I do beleive this woman will be a danger to anybody she comes in contact with which is why this should had been a DP case. My question is how can their family members support them knowing what they did? Also what kind of upbringing produces two such monsters?
lunchlady
02-03-2009, 03:26 PM
I hear that male prisoners who victimized children are treated poorly. Is that also true of female prisoners? I know the women aren't AS brutal, but I bet it still isn't fun to be a target for hate in a women's prison.
cantstandnuts
02-03-2009, 03:57 PM
Duh yea , I never said the father was a murderer and please stop making your replies to my post as stating I implied so.
The father is responsible for the reasons I stated as IMO, if you knew more about the case, the bio father, they were my opinions as stated only
.
I know more about the families than you will ever so get your opinions correct and stop twisting my opinions which I base my opinons on more than just chat on this or any message board. And more information than you will have or know about these families from this board.
They are my honest opinons only.
You seem to have an axe to grind with bio dad. Just skip on by my posts from here on, K? People who insist on using the word DUH when politely asked to refrain don't exactly inspire compelling arguments anyway. TIA
These are my honest opinions only.
Marcia3
02-03-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm hoping any chances of pleas have already gone past a deadline, or that the DA will not consider any kind of plea from this POS to prevent him from getting LWOP, also.
On my wish list is a plea from the stepdad/baby killer that gives him a LWOP sentence anyway...just to save the cost and aggravation of a trial. Then he wouldn't be allowed to appeal the sentence since it was a plea agreement.
I won't get that wish, IMO, but it sure would be nice!
On my wish list is a plea from the stepdad/baby killer that gives him a LWOP sentence anyway...just to save the cost and aggravation of a trial. Then he wouldn't be allowed to appeal the sentence since it was a plea agreement.
I won't get that wish, IMO, but it sure would be nice!
That's the trouble, tho. His sentence is for capital murder is automatically LWOP, just like his wife got. But, HE could do like the POS that killed Marcus Fiesel, who, when HIS wife got 50+ years, HE took a plea and got only 16. He pled to lesser charges. And because he admitted to THOSE charges, got less prison time. THAT is what I am afraid might happen here. Big, brave, macho-macho men who plea down and their wifes (rightly so) spend years and years in prison.
cherylt
02-03-2009, 08:52 PM
That's the trouble, tho. His sentence is for capital murder is automatically LWOP, just like his wife got. But, HE could do like the POS that killed Marcus Fiesel, who, when HIS wife got 50+ years, HE took a plea and got only 16. He pled to lesser charges. And because he admitted to THOSE charges, got less prison time. THAT is what I am afraid might happen here. Big, brave, macho-macho men who plea down and their wifes (rightly so) spend years and years in prison.
That is a very good point, Amy! Hopefully the DA will refuse to negotiate w/ him at any point. There is the expense of a trial to think of, but I don't think (but who knows) that he would let him plea to a small amount of time. moo
aubrey04
02-03-2009, 10:20 PM
That is a very good point, Amy! Hopefully the DA will refuse to negotiate w/ him at any point. There is the expense of a trial to think of, but I don't think (but who knows) that he would let him plea to a small amount of time. moo
I don't see why the DA's office would offer a plea deal to Royce Zeigler.. they have more than enough evidence to stick to him, but you never know.. the Galveston County DA's office also decided these two didn't deserve the DP or pose a future danger to the community. :rolleyes:
If this happened in Harris County -- Kimberly would be headed to death row today and Zeigler would soon follow.. I am sure.
I think they both had equal hands in Riley's death and Royce should never be allowed to be free again.. ever.
Details
02-03-2009, 10:32 PM
I read hardly anything on this - just a short exerpt from that journal - they tortured her to death - that should be a death penalty case, IMO. But, since it wasn't, I wish I could think jail will be the same for them. It won't be - prison guards do their job, and our justice system shouldn't be about revenge - but reading about this case, with my little girl napping in the next room - I wanted to throw up. If anyone deserves that type of treatment, it is these killers.
della_17_99
02-03-2009, 10:41 PM
She's going to spend a long, long, long time in prison. She's only 20 yo and she has a mandatory sentence of LWOP. If she lives to 65 yo - she will be in prison for 45 years... yikes!
I would take the death penalty over that fate any day.
Ditto, Aubrey. At her young age I think I'd rather get executed than spend the rest of my life in prison... especially if she gets out of protective custody. My 20's and 30's were the best yrs of my life so far, I can't imagine them spent in a small cell. Now, I'm assuming that she's in Pro. Cust. but I don't see her walking around with other inmates anytime soon. If and when she gets in with general population, may the retribution be swift and merciless. :sneaky:
della_17_99
02-03-2009, 10:49 PM
I hear that male prisoners who victimized children are treated poorly. Is that also true of female prisoners? I know the women aren't AS brutal, but I bet it still isn't fun to be a target for hate in a women's prison.
Hi Lunchlady. Never underestimate how brutally vicious females can be... she goes into general population she will have a huge bullseye on her butt.:sneaky:
Marcia3
02-04-2009, 09:42 AM
That's the trouble, tho. His sentence is for capital murder is automatically LWOP, just like his wife got. But, HE could do like the POS that killed Marcus Fiesel, who, when HIS wife got 50+ years, HE took a plea and got only 16. He pled to lesser charges. And because he admitted to THOSE charges, got less prison time. THAT is what I am afraid might happen here. Big, brave, macho-macho men who plea down and their wifes (rightly so) spend years and years in prison.
ITA. That's why if there's a plea deal, I'm worried that we might see a repeat of the Marcus Fiesel case. David Carroll deserved 55+ years just like Liz got, but he could be back out on the street in 15 years with his sweet deal. I sure hope that doesn't happen here. Both of these "people" deserve LWOP. Period, end of story, IMO.
Marcia3
02-04-2009, 09:45 AM
I don't see why the DA's office would offer a plea deal to Royce Zeigler.. they have more than enough evidence to stick to him, but you never know.. the Galveston County DA's office also decided these two didn't deserve the DP or pose a future danger to the community. :rolleyes:
If this happened in Harris County -- Kimberly would be headed to death row today and Zeigler would soon follow.. I am sure.
I think they both had equal hands in Riley's death and Royce should never be allowed to be free again.. ever.
Unfortunately, there was plenty of evidence to convict David Carroll in Marcus Fiesel's brutal, tortured death, but he managed to negotiate a plea deal after his wife was convicted and sentenced to 55+ years.
It happens. But the Fiesel murder was in OH, and I'm hoping that TX will not be as short-sighted with this case.
lunchlady
02-04-2009, 10:05 AM
I was afraid at the beginning of this trial, that once again the woman would be left holding the bag for a man who murdered the child, and he'd get off lighter.
I don't think so, with that portrait they have. A picture is worth a 1000 words, and you completely "get" the dynamic - he insisted the child be tortured, and then finally killed her, while Kimberly stood by grinning stupidly and wringing her hands. I think a jury will see that.
Perfect image- ITA. Hopefully this case will inspire a few hapless ineffectual mothers to protect their children from brutality at the hand of dominating men. The dynamics of the marriage probably caused Mom to agree with the "discipline" plan and participate in it.
I wonder what Kimberly's parents were like. She went to live with Riley's family when she got pregnant, not her own.
I don't see why the DA's office would offer a plea deal to Royce Zeigler.. they have more than enough evidence to stick to him, but you never know.. the Galveston County DA's office also decided these two didn't deserve the DP or pose a future danger to the community. :rolleyes:
If this happened in Harris County -- Kimberly would be headed to death row today and Zeigler would soon follow.. I am sure.
I think they both had equal hands in Riley's death and Royce should never be allowed to be free again.. ever.
I don't worry so much about the DA offering a plea, as much as I worry that the defense will ask for a plea. @ least, I think it works both ways, either side can introduce a plea situation? And, since the DA decided the DP was off the table, I DO worry that he might consider a plea offered by the defense.
lunchlady
02-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Even though these two aren't up for the DP at least they will be in jail away from children for decades.
Their baby will have a shock when he/she is old enough to understand where his/her bioparents are and why. Maybe the relatives won't tell the kid. In some instances not knowing the details is better. I know a women who sought out her birth mother and found out that she's the result of a brutal gang rape. She hasn't been the same since and its been 10 years now.
logbump
02-04-2009, 01:24 PM
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090203_mh_trenor_confession.17342819.html
Recent info at KHOU about trial and documents.
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090203_mh_trenor_confession.17342819.html
Recent info at KHOU about trial and documents.
Poor Baby Riley. No matter which "story" is the truth (and I suspect there is a little truth in all the stories, just that all the stories are not all the truth) Riley Sawyer is dead, dead, dead. And if it wasn't for the TWO adults in her little life @ the time, she wouldn't be. Doesn't matter how many times each struck her, and which one threw her to the wall or kept her head under water, they BOTH murdered that baby. And BOTH deserve the death penalty, but since that isn't possible, @ the least BOTH deserve to get out of prison in a pine box, no other way.
Sounds like a pretty good chance Zeigler isn't going to try to plea, but to try and get out of the situation altogether. Wonder if they plan on calling Trenor as a witness. No need for her to plead the 5th @ this point, she's already convicted, sentencing is automatic, she might as well get up there and tell the truth!!!!
AND, regardless of who hit her when, just as if SHE had stood by to watch him kill Riley, she would have been guilty--so is he no matter HOW much he participated in the murder. He didn't stop it. He doesn't even have the whine about not being able to intervene--he's twice the size of Trenor, could have picked her up, set her down and picked up Riley and taken her to a hospital or fire station or wherever. (But I'm betting he didn't do that, because he was PARTICIPATING in the beating.)
logbump
02-04-2009, 02:22 PM
Good post Amy. I don't know law but if there is, most likely, an appeal would Trenor refuse to testify to protect herself?
Both of the murderers families sound like trash except for Grandmother Sawyers. The signs of previous abuse testified by step Grandmother Zeigler, who by the way is not innocent herself. She knew the child was being abused but did nothing. These two murdering monsters I am sure grew up in lousy families and no doubt were abused themselves. No excuse for what they did. These two losers hook up. The worst situation in the world for a child.
Good post Amy. I don't know law but if there is, most likely, an appeal would Trenor refuse to testify to protect herself?
I don't know. I guess it would depend on what her lawyer would advise her to do? According to the law, she isn't required to testify, so guess it would have to do with what she would testify to. Maybe to sort out which of her versions of what really happened was really the truth? Besides, if I read correctly, hardly anyone wins an appeal.
iluvmua
02-05-2009, 10:06 AM
Kimberly Trenor placed on Suicide Watch
www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6245014.html
If she kills herself OH WELL!!!
joolz
02-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Kimberly Trenor placed on Suicide Watch
www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6245014.html
If she kills herself OH WELL!!!
Well, it would save taxpayers a lot of money and rid the planet of another oxygen-wasting monster. But personally, since there was no DP option, I hope she lives to be a very old woman who has spent every single day of her decades of incarcertation wishing she could kill herself.
I hope this woman is beaten and killed in prison. BS about spending all these resources and money on protecting this child murderer. As long as she lives there is always the chance she'll get out of prison.
GentleBreeze
02-05-2009, 12:06 PM
Poor Baby Riley. No matter which "story" is the truth (and I suspect there is a little truth in all the stories, just that all the stories are not all the truth) Riley Sawyer is dead, dead, dead. And if it wasn't for the TWO adults in her little life @ the time, she wouldn't be. Doesn't matter how many times each struck her, and which one threw her to the wall or kept her head under water, they BOTH murdered that baby. And BOTH deserve the death penalty, but since that isn't possible, @ the least BOTH deserve to get out of prison in a pine box, no other way.
Sounds like a pretty good chance Zeigler isn't going to try to plea, but to try and get out of the situation altogether. Wonder if they plan on calling Trenor as a witness. No need for her to plead the 5th @ this point, she's already convicted, sentencing is automatic, she might as well get up there and tell the truth!!!!
AND, regardless of who hit her when, just as if SHE had stood by to watch him kill Riley, she would have been guilty--so is he no matter HOW much he participated in the murder. He didn't stop it. He doesn't even have the whine about not being able to intervene--he's twice the size of Trenor, could have picked her up, set her down and picked up Riley and taken her to a hospital or fire station or wherever. (But I'm betting he didn't do that, because he was PARTICIPATING in the beating.)
I don't think she will testify if called and will take the fifth. I am sure she will automatically appeal her case and usually a defendant is urged by their attorneys to not testify, even in another case because those words also can hurt their appeal, especially if she screwed up and said something damaging about her own participation in the crime.
imoo
museumgirl
02-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Let her be beating to the point that she TRULY feels like Riley felt, but not to death... then rinse and repeat as needed!!!
I don't think she will testify if called and will take the fifth. I am sure she will automatically appeal her case and usually a defendant is urged by their attorneys to not testify, even in another case because those words also can hurt their appeal, especially if she screwed up and said something damaging about her own participation in the crime.
imoo
I hadn't tho't about there being a successful appeal, but that makes sense. I was just thinking, she's been convicted, what does she have to lose? Sometimes my brain goes just so far and then stops!!! lol
Kimberly Trenor placed on Suicide Watch
www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6245014.html
If she kills herself OH WELL!!!
"Anyone sentenced to death or life in prison without parole is placed on minimum suicide watch as a precaution until the person can be examined by a psychiatrist, Henson said."
He also said she would be sequestered for her safety. But, I don't think lifers get sequestered forever, eventually they go into general population, unless they are doing things that would put them in "the hole"--and then I'd hope she would actually go to the hole, not stay in her comfortable cell!!!!
texasgal
02-05-2009, 02:34 PM
And the appeals begin ..
http://www.click2houston.com/news/18648761/detail.html?treets=hou&tml=hou_12pm&ts=T&tmi=hou_12pm_1_12000202052009
And the appeals begin ..
http://www.click2houston.com/news/18648761/detail.html?treets=hou&tml=hou_12pm&ts=T&tmi=hou_12pm_1_12000202052009
I tho't appeals for capital murder were automatic, those that got LWOP and the DP?
lunchlady
02-08-2009, 11:20 AM
I hope this woman is beaten and killed in prison. BS about spending all these resources and money on protecting this child murderer. As long as she lives there is always the chance she'll get out of prison.
I hope she is in prison without conjugal visitation at least until she reaches menopause. Otherwise she could have another child :ohmy:
If she doesn't survive her prison experience I hope she gets to be good and miserable for awhile. Maybe she isn't grinning so inanely now. She didn't look properly serious and downcast at her trial- maybe she thought smiling would help the judge and jury like her or feel sorry for her? It had the opposite effect on me.
Since deterrence is one of the purposes of punishment for severe crimes I hope this case has continuing notoriety. Perhaps a few children will be saved because of Baby Grace- I hope so.
paddy01
03-07-2009, 11:26 AM
GALVESTON — The trial of a man accused in the capital murder of a girl authorities named Baby Grace is scheduled to begin Oct. 19 in Galveston County District Court.
http://galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=7a3a77e34fdae2e8
Mark your calendars, October 19, damn that's 7 months from now, I was hoping it would be sooner! :angry:
Wonder why his is so far back? You'd think they would both be about the same time. Wish they had given the reason it's so far off...new attorneys needing to get up to speed on either side? Seems that if they could clear the docket for Treynor's trial, they could have for Zeigler's, too.
SoggyBayou
10-09-2009, 09:47 AM
‘Baby Grace’ Trial to Begin
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=5785b7f7cca736fb
"GALVESTON — The capital murder trial of a stepfather charged in the death of “Baby Grace” is expected to begin Wednesday with a three-day review of a pool 1,250 potential jurors.
Royce Clyde Zeigler II, 26, was charged in the July 25, 2007, death of Riley Ann Sawyers. Authorities named Sawyers “Baby Grace” until learning the identity of the 2-year-old, whose decomposed body was found in a plastic box by a fisherman in Galveston Bay."
museumgirl
10-09-2009, 11:30 AM
I was afraid at the beginning of this trial, that once again the woman would be left holding the bag for a man who murdered the child, and he'd get off lighter.
I'm sorry, but as this child mother she deserves IMO to be held more responsible. Yeah, he may have been the one who actually killed the child, but by standing there and doing nothing, she is more guilty in my eyes. She gave birth to this child and was the person this little girl was crying for and telling she loved as they took her life away! All this little girl wanted up to the minute she died was for her mom to love her and to take care of her, and what did she get???? Yeah, the mom does deserve the majority of the blame from where I stand.
‘Baby Grace’ Trial to Begin
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=5785b7f7cca736fb
"GALVESTON — The capital murder trial of a stepfather charged in the death of “Baby Grace” is expected to begin Wednesday with a three-day review of a pool 1,250 potential jurors.
Royce Clyde Zeigler II, 26, was charged in the July 25, 2007, death of Riley Ann Sawyers. Authorities named Sawyers “Baby Grace” until learning the identity of the 2-year-old, whose decomposed body was found in a plastic box by a fisherman in Galveston Bay."
An article linked @ the bottom of this one talks about the POS's parents getting supervised visitation w/the baby (Shawn.) Some interesting stuff about the parents. Such as the POS's brother won't let his parents have anything to do w/his kids.
Thanks for the update. Looks like the process for selecting jurors is going to take up the next couple of weeks? And, the actual trial won't start until the end of the month. I see that the defense has "experts" on their witness list. Well, I don't give a rat's patootey what a psychologist is going to say about the POS's childhood and upbringing, if the defense thinks there is going to be some sympathy for the POS if his mom and dad were "mean" to him. He could have gone the route his brother seems to have---get away, get far away, not stick around and certainly not treat children the same or worse than you were!!! If that is what they will be trying to get at.
I'm sorry, but as this child mother she deserves IMO to be held more responsible. Yeah, he may have been the one who actually killed the child, but by standing there and doing nothing, she is more guilty in my eyes. She gave birth to this child and was the person this little girl was crying for and telling she loved as they took her life away! All this little girl wanted up to the minute she died was for her mom to love her and to take care of her, and what did she get???? Yeah, the mom does deserve the majority of the blame from where I stand.
Even if she didn't see this coming (the murder) she had to have seen from the first time the way the POS was treating her baby, and should have packed up and left. Maybe she tho't she had burned her bridges with her family and couldn't ask for their help--but it sounds like she didn't even try. Or, find a shelter to go, get help in getting out of there.
But, to stand by and let someone beat your baby!!!! :cursing:
SoggyBayou
10-15-2009, 08:17 AM
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=2a1e38c3e177577b
"GALVESTON — The jury that will hear the murder trial of a stepfather charged in the death of Baby Grace will come from a pool of 179 potential jurors, Galveston County District Attorney Kurt Sistrunk said.
Prosecutors and defense attorneys whittled down the jury pool from 1,250 in just a few hours Wednesday in what was expected to have been a three-day process."
Thanks for the update. Am looking forward to the trial, and for him to get LWOP. Well, I really would have liked to see DP, but......not my call!!!
september
10-18-2009, 06:25 PM
Does anyone know if the trial is going to be covered (streamed) by a local station?
Annie143
10-19-2009, 01:51 AM
Anyone know if the paternal gparents have unsupervised visits now ?
museumgirl
10-20-2009, 03:53 PM
For Gods sake, if she couldn't stand to be w/o this POS man ~ Riley would have been better off if she just left her at a bus stop or anywhere.... Hell, she'd have probably been safer on gang turf!:cursing:
SoggyBayou
10-27-2009, 09:41 AM
The Police News
http://thepolicenews.net/default.aspx?act=Newsletter.aspx&category=News+1-2&newsletterid=15836&menugroup=Home
Trial of Baby Grace's stepfather set to begin
SoggyBayou
10-27-2009, 10:22 AM
ABC13
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7084509&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7084509
Jury selection continues in 2nd 'Baby Grace' trial
"t's possible the trial itself could start today, if final jury selection wraps up this morning. "
Thanks for the updates!!!
SoggyBayou
10-27-2009, 10:13 PM
http://thepolicenews.net/default.aspx?act=Newsletter.aspx&category=News+1-2&newsletterid=15851&menugroup=Home
UPDATE: "Baby Grace" Trial
"The Police News
October 27, 2009 4:45PM
GALVESTON - Galveston County Court Administrator Bonnie Quiroga has just announced that a jury of nine men and three women have been seated for the Capital Murder Trial of Royce Zeigler, step-father of Riley Ann Sawyers, "Baby Grace".
Quiroga says the trial will begin tomorrow morning at 9:15 in the 10th District Court of Judge David Garner in the Galveston County Justice Center at 600 59th Street."
SoggyBayou
10-28-2009, 07:53 AM
Galveston Daily News
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=06894bec6f0c7732
SoggyBayou
10-28-2009, 01:55 PM
"DAY 1
GALVESTON - The first day of testimony is underway in the 10th District Court of Judge David Garner in the Royce Ziegler murder trial. Ziegler is the infamous step-father of murdered 2-year old Riley Ann Sawyers known worldwide as "Baby Grace"
In opening remarks this morning the prosecution told the jury would prove that Ziegler responsible for the brutal death of Sawyers. Defense attorneys followed with claims that Zieglar had nothing to do with the baby's death and that he was only guility of being stupid for becoming involved with Kimberly Trenor, the baby's mother.
The first witness called to testify was Lt. Tommy Hansen of the Galveston County Sheriff's Office, Assistant Commander of the Criminal Investigation Division. Hansen was called from an ongoing investigation in Silsby, Texas, to Galveston Bay where Sawyers' remains were found in October 2007 on a barrier island in Galveston Bay."
http://thepolicenews.net/newsletter.aspx?category=baby+grace
SoggyBayou
10-28-2009, 11:29 PM
http://thepolicenews.net/newsletter.aspx?category=baby+grace
Click above for updates.
SoggyBayou
10-29-2009, 09:25 PM
The Police News
http://thepolicenews.net/newsletter.aspx?category=baby+grace
Court Room Photos
http://thepolicenews.net/imagegallery.cfm?name=zeigler
KHOU Houston
'Baby Grace's' grandmother faces accused killer in courtroom
http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou091029_mh_baby-grace-trial-thursday.2659fb4b4.html?npc
KTRK Houston
Gruesome discovery recalled in trial
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7090172&rss=rss-ktrk-article-7090172
Click 2 Houston
Deputy Testifies In Zeigler's Trial
http://www.click2houston.com/news/21466321/detail.html
SoggyBayou
10-29-2009, 11:25 PM
Houston Chronicle
Grandmom defends daughter at 'Baby Grace' trial
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6692591.html
"Sawyers testified that Riley and her mother, Kimberly Dawn Trenor, 21, lived with her for the first two years of Riley’s life. Riley died about a month after her mother took her to Texas, where Trenor married Zeigler after a whirlwind courtship."
SoggyBayou
10-30-2009, 04:01 PM
Galveston Daily News
Jury sees items used to dispose of Baby Grace
http://www.galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=522fecd2ba949c72
"The receipts, which totaled $87, were cash transactions, and included items such as a storage box, cleaning supplies, a shovel, cement and an anchor chain."
aubrey04
10-30-2009, 08:38 PM
This is case is so dang sad. It is amazing this isn't a death penalty case. I still don't quite understand why isn't.. I am from Houston and will be close to Galveston next week.. In some ways, I wouldn't mind sitting in on the proceedings, but I don't think I could sit through something this horrendous involving a child beaten to death.. ugh..
I hope he gets LWOP.
Nascargal
10-30-2009, 08:55 PM
God bless this child, she didn't deserve this. :rose:
barskin&co.
10-30-2009, 09:07 PM
This is case is so dang sad. It is amazing this isn't a death penalty case. I still don't quite understand why isn't.. I am from Houston and will be close to Galveston next week.. In some ways, I wouldn't mind sitting in on the proceedings, but I don't think I could sit through something this horrendous involving a child beaten to death.. ugh..
I hope he gets LWOP.
Well, look on the bright side. She has to live in gen pop, rather than secluded away for decades on Death Row.
cantstandnuts
10-30-2009, 09:34 PM
This case consumed me when it first broke open. I even emailed Sheryl Sawyers and she told me the trial was expected in November of this year. They were not far off the mark with that prediction. I lit candles for the longest time, almost every day for this poor little angel.
I will never forget that Kimberly recalled that Riley told her she loved her while she was being beaten to death. That makes me cry now, two years later. That poor little girl, I'm sick all over again. Two years old, trying to stop the pain and thinking that if she confirms her love for her attackers, it will. OMG.
So, if RZ wasn't involved, why wasn't he at work that day if that was his normal routine? I think it's just like KT says, he stayed home to makes sure KT was "disciplining" baby Riley properly. And when he decided she wasn't, he took matters into his own hands.
I think he's gross for trying to pin this all on KT, but I'm not surprised. It was clear two years ago, he would do exactly that. Trying to save his lousy butt. He makes me sick.
RIP Riley and stay strong Sheryl. Go to prison for the rest of your miserable life, RZ, you vile piece of...
Ugh, forgot how bad the death of Riley made me feel. :crying:
wasapi
10-31-2009, 12:45 AM
I will never forget that Kimberly recalled that Riley told her she loved her while she was being beaten to death. That makes me cry now, two years later. That poor little girl, I'm sick all over again. Two years old, trying to stop the pain and thinking that if she confirms her love for her attackers, it will. OMG.
. . . snipped . . .
Ugh, forgot how bad the death of Riley made me feel. :crying:
Yes, though every one of these cases is difficult to read, it seems that certain ones just pack an extra punch to the heart. Nixmary was another one. Crying for her mother to help her while she was being beaten to death, tied to a chair. And her mother just watched. Another was Summer Phelps, whose step-mother held her under urine and water in the bath tub by stepping on the back of Summer's head with her foot.
And Riley. Yes, her last words telling her mother she loved her. And what compounded it even more is the thought of those two having sex, creating another baby, while Riley was decomposing in the basement.
I have no idea how to comprehend such evil.
aproudmom
10-31-2009, 01:19 AM
This is one of the sadest cases I have ever heard for some reason when I first saw that composite picture of baby Grace she grabbed my heart and then hearing her bio-father and his mother talk when they found out it was Riley was so heartbreaking and then the mother telling what happened to this sweet angel I did not sleep from crying all night I pray neither see the light of day outside of prison. JMO:cursing:
This is one trial I could not watched
apm
This is case is so dang sad. It is amazing this isn't a death penalty case. I still don't quite understand why isn't.. I am from Houston and will be close to Galveston next week.. In some ways, I wouldn't mind sitting in on the proceedings, but I don't think I could sit through something this horrendous involving a child beaten to death.. ugh..
I hope he gets LWOP.
I was reading "related articles" in some of the links. On @ least one, there was the quote from whomever decides whether or not the DP will be asked for. This person says there was no DP because it was determined that Trenor and Ziegler aren't a threat to anyone else. Well, I guess, since they will have no contact (or @ least unsupervised contact) with their baby, that might be true. But, I would think the decision would be based more on the horrendousness of the crime.
Well, look on the bright side. She has to live in gen pop, rather than secluded away for decades on Death Row.
Being in Texas, it might be A decade, but they usually are a little more timely in their executions in TX than in many other states.
cantstandnuts
11-01-2009, 11:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Texas
Murder of a child under 6 is a qualifier for the DP.
IIRC, they didn't proceed in this case because they weren't sure they could prove premeditation.
My question is do you have to prove premeditation also or does the fact that Riley was just 2 automatically qualify them?
R~O~S
11-01-2009, 12:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Texas
Murder of a child under 6 is a qualifier for the DP.
IIRC, they didn't proceed in this case because they weren't sure they could prove premeditation.
My question is do you have to prove premeditation also or does the fact that Riley was just 2 automatically qualify them?
To qualify as a DP case, it must be 1st degree murder before anything else. Once it's determined to be 1st degree, then the special circumstances would make the case eligible for the DP.
Premeditation is not the only qualifier for 1st degree murder, but this death was not the by-product of the commission of another felony such as car jacking, rape, arson, kidnapping or robbery, nor was is the murder of a law enforcement officer.
So yes, they must prove premeditation before the case would qualify as a DP case. Anything less is not eligible because they never get to consider the special circumstances, there wouldn't be a penalty phase of trial.
I wish they'd tried it that way even if they weren't certain they'd succeed since a DP qualified jury is statistically more likely to be conservative in application of the law. IOW they're not likely to accept the "twinkie defense". But, if they go for the DP they also have to provide a "super defense", it costs a fortune and it really isn't fiscally responsible if there isn't a reasonable expectation of success.
The Prosecution is tax supported, the DA wouldn't have a very long career in public service if he consistently wasted tax dollars overcharging on futile cases.
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