january 19 - 22

[alterEgo©]

I suspect the timing of this visit was either the court ordered it or Jasons Attorney strongly suggested it.
Jason may not have had a choice.
JMOThe court would not order it.

Of course Jason has a choice. It's up to him, and him alone, to determine what is in the best interest of his child. For now anyway.

[alterEgo©]

There are a very few that CLAIM to have seen this so called page. No verification has been given. It seems that the only ones who "saw" this page that no one can link are those that want Jason to remain a free man. IMO Just like there were a very few that CLAIMED to have seen (while others read) the so called interview with Steve Money wherein he forgave his wife for her transgression. No verification has ever been given. It seems that the only ones who 'saw' this interview that no one can link are those that want Jason to fry. IMO

[Barbara2]

Just like there were a very few that CLAIMED to have seen (while others read) the so called interview with Steve Money wherein he forgave his wife for her transgression. No verification has ever been given. It seems that the only ones who 'saw' this interview that no one can link are those that want Jason to fry. IMO

It seems that whether someone saw it or not doesn't matter much now since the information in the warrant pretty much verifies that an affair did take place between Jason and Michelle Money.

[alterEgo©]

It seems that whether someone saw it or not doesn't matter much now since the information in the warrant pretty much verifies that an affair did take place between Jason and Michelle Money.
Yup.

But it still doesn't change the fact that some interview, which is insisted by some to have occured, cannot be linked to so that those of us who missed it can witness it for ourselves.

At least with the 'coming down from a high' post, it was linked on this board. The Steve Money forgiveness interview has never been linked.

[Kat4Eagles]

Just like there were a very few that CLAIMED to have seen (while others read) the so called interview with Steve Money wherein he forgave his wife for her transgression. No verification has ever been given. It seems that the only ones who 'saw' this interview that no one can link are those that want Jason to fry. IMO

I agree, and now we are can talk about something other than murder suspects or accomplices, we are talking about the people that are applying for custody of a child.

A custody case in which part is scheduled to be heard 02.04.09

So, everything gets a even closer look!!

So, who is the leezard MF refers to still living at home with and why?

Kat

[Cardinal]

I agree, and now we are can talk about something other than murder suspects or accomplices, we are talking about the people that are applying for custody of a child.

A custody case in which part is scheduled to be heard 02.04.09

So, everything gets a even closer look!!

So, who is the leezard MF refers to still living at home with and why?

Kat

Her pet iguana? :D

Happy MLK Day, everyone!

[alterEgo©]

I dunno Kat.

But I would think the judge would want to see something from the past 2 years to show Jason is unfit to have custody of his daughter. Something besides rumors of stuff that happened before Michelle was murdered which appears to have been lifted off msg boards.

Which is basically all the 'upon belief' allegations. Stuff they believe to be true but have no proof that it is.

[JHP]

The court would not order it.

Of course Jason has a choice. It's up to him, and him alone, to determine what is in the best interest of his child. For now anyway.

Are you sure? Because I have experienced a similar situation with an extended family member, and the Judge did order it.

[Kat4Eagles]

I dunno Kat.

But I would think the judge would want to see something from the past 2 years to show Jason is unfit to have custody of his daughter. Something besides rumors of stuff that happened before Michelle was murdered which appears to have been lifted off msg boards.

Which is basically all the 'upon belief' allegations. Stuff they believe to be true but have no proof that it is.


Oh, definitely..

On all parties concerned, there should be a thorough background check to find what and who is in the best interest of the child.

And , not just based on rumors..you are right.

I saw the page everyone is talking about, she went on to say she did get along with her late father either.

I find all this very interesting.
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Her pet iguana? :D

Happy MLK Day, everyone!


Could be, I am just trying to find out.
Strange choice of word, whether they are meant for a person or pet, I don't know.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Oh, definitely..

On all parties concerned, there should be a thorough background check to find what and who is in the best interest of the child.

And , not just based on rumors..you are right.

I saw the page everyone is talking about, she went on to say she did get along with her late father either.

I find all this very interesting.
Kat

I didn't get along with my father when I was Meredith's age. Would that show up on a background check?

[alterEgo©]

Are you sure? Because I have experienced a similar situation with an extended family member, and the Judge did order it.And I'm sure there is paperwork petitioning the Judge to make such an order. As recently at Sept 2008, grandparents were banning together to get visitation laws established in NC since they don't exist today. And since they don't exist, under what authority would Meredith and Linda petition the court to order visitation for the weekend?

[Cardinal]

And I'm sure there is paperwork petitioning the Judge to make such an order. As recently at Sept 2008, grandparents were banning together to get visitation laws established in NC since they don't exist today. And since they don't exist, under what authority would Meredith and Linda petition the court to order visitation for the weekend?

Is it possible the visitation was a condition of the continuance? Their attorney could have argued that the continuance would have the effect of further depriving them of time with Cassidy.

[Kat4Eagles]

I didn't get along with my father when I was Meredith's age. Would that show up on a background check?


Were you also a joint party filing a custody suit in a murder case?

We have spent months and months discussing Jason's character or lack of, so, why can we not explore into the other parties involved?

I sure don't want C to go anywhere, but if she does, I want to know it is the right place, don't you?

Also, did KB confirm a visit took place this weekend?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

Is it possible the visitation was a condition of the continuance? Their attorney could have argued that the continuance would have the effect of further depriving them of time with Cassidy.The plaintiff's atty would have no say in determining if an extention is to be granted to respond to the complaint.

[Cardinal]

Were you also a joint party filing a custody suit in a murder case?

We have spent months and months discussing Jason's character or lack of, so, why can we not explore into the other parties involved?

I sure don't want C to go anywhere, but if she does, I want to know it is the right place, don't you?

Did KB confirm a visit took place this weekend?

Kat

Does KB ever give a straight answer?

No, I wasn't a party to a custody suit, but I was a young woman whose parents divorced, and since I chose to stay with and support my mother, my father and I didn't get along for many years. I imagine the same might be true for Meredith, and Michelle, for that matter.

I don't mind exploring the other parties' character, as long as it's reasonable. And of course I want Cassidy in the right place.

[JHP]

Is it possible the visitation was a condition of the continuance? Their attorney could have argued that the continuance would have the effect of further depriving them of time with Cassidy.

Thank you Cardinal you explained it quite well.

[Cardinal]

The plaintiff's atty would have no say in determining if an extention is to be granted to respond to the complaint.

But if he made the argument, the judge would likely consider it.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

On Nov. 15 2006 at 1:46 pm MF's my space was made public on this web site. On Nov. 15 2006 at 5:13 pm it was posted by a barbara that the my space just went private. This barbara said she should have kept the info to herself until she checked it out more. I wonder how many people read it that 4 + hours before it went private? I'm still searching be back with more later.


There is a lot to read through but you can find the posts by looking at the time.


http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/jason_young_murderer.htm


Thank you, Confused.
:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Does KB ever give a straight answer?

No, I wasn't a party to a custody suit, but I was a young woman whose parents divorced, and since I chose to stay with and support my mother, my father and I didn't get along for many years. I imagine the same might be true for Meredith, and Michelle, for that matter.

I don't mind exploring the other parties' character, as long as it's reasonable. And of course I want Cassidy in the right place.

Reasonable, it shall be.
Promise.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

But if he made the argument, the judge would likely consider it.

JMO

Wait, why would the plaintiffs want or grant an extension through themselves or their attorney.?

They just filed the suit.

I will tell you the thing that bothers me the most here.

What is the true reason for filing for custody after all this time?

Just tell me that, that's all I want to know.

Cause it can't be concern for where the child has been living for over the past 2 years..nothing was filed before this.

And the title of slayer would not even be needed, if there were any real problems or concerns for the court to consider.

Kat

[Tia]

Does KB ever give a straight answer?

No, I wasn't a party to a custody suit, but I was a young woman whose parents divorced, and since I chose to stay with and support my mother, my father and I didn't get along for many years. I imagine the same might be true for Meredith, and Michelle, for that matter.

I don't mind exploring the other parties' character, as long as it's reasonable. And of course I want Cassidy in the right place.

IMO, he doesn't get the inside scoop anymore like he used to. I think the Young's were getting a little bothered by him discussing their lives on the message boards.

He didn't seem to know anything about the visit, but HM's friends were talking about it.

[Kat4Eagles]

IMO, he doesn't get the inside scoop anymore like he used to. I think the Young's were getting a little bothered by him discussing their lives on the message boards.

He didn't seem to know anything about the visit, but HM's friends were talking about it.


I am not saying it did or didn't happen, the timing just seems off, because of the suit being filed and then extended.

But, who knows?

Maybe a third party or a outside party has been approached to moderate visits.

And who is HM?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

But if he made the argument, the judge would likely consider it.

JMOThat's just it, he wouldn't make any such argument.

Extensions to respond at this juncture are obtained from the CoC anyway.

[Cardinal]

Yes, Confused, thanks for the link. I had read that site a long time ago, but it was interesting to read the posts again in light of the information that has been revealed since.

I was particularly interested in a post by "just the facts" who claimed to be an insider - they said that both Michelle's and Meredith's cars were impounded along with Jason's.

Of course, I don't know how credible that person's information is, since they also said that Jason called Michelle that morning and wasn't worried because she had a doctor's appointment - and we know now that he didn't call her until 12:02 pm.

[Kat4Eagles]

That's just it, he wouldn't make any such argument.

Extensions to respond at this juncture are obtained from the CoC anyway.


I forgot to thank you for starting the new thread. Thank you.

Is it even possible for LF to contact Jason during these litigations?

Would someone else have to become involved?

It is not even a fact that a visit took place.

Kat

[alterEgo©]

It's pure rumor that any weekend visit occurred.

100% pure

[Cardinal]

~snipped for emphasis~

I will tell you the thing that bothers me the most here.

What is the true reason for filing for custody after all this time?

Just tell me that, that's all I want to know.

Kat

I have no way of knowing the true reason, Kat, and neither does anyone else who posts here.

If I had to guess, I'd say it could be a couple of things. It could be that the information revealed in the SWs a couple of months ago revealed a cause for concern. Or it could be that when Linda was forced by the statute of limitations to go ahead with the WDS if she were going to file it, her attorney advised her that the slayer determination gave her grounds to file for custody.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Yes, Confused, thanks for the link. I had read that site a long time ago, but it was interesting to read the posts again in light of the information that has been revealed since.

I was particularly interested in a post by "just the facts" who claimed to be an insider - they said that both Michelle's and Meredith's cars were impounded along with Jason's.

Of course, I don't know how credible that person's information is, since they also said that Jason called Michelle that morning and wasn't worried because she had a doctor's appointment - and we know now that he didn't call her until 12:02 pm.


Lol, that is only 2 minutes after a.m, and then called her again at 12:17.

I think if I remember right, he stopped for gas shortly after this time too.

About the cars, were they all impounded that day?
Including MF's?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It's pure rumor that any weekend visit occurred.

100% pure

Exactly, but, why?
And who is HM?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Lol, that is only 2 minutes after a.m, and then called her again at 12:17.

I think if I remember right, he stopped for gas shortly after this time too.

About the cars, were they all impounded that day?
Including MF's?
Kat

I'm not splitting hairs, Kat. Read it in context. 11/15/06 at 11:17.

And yes, that poster says Meredith's car was impounded that day.

[Cardinal]

Exactly, but, why?
And who is HM?

Kat

I think it's Heather.

[Kat4Eagles]

I have no way of knowing the true reason, Kat, and neither does anyone else who posts here.


JMO


I just want it to be for the right reason.
And, most people are going to question the length of time, including the Judge.
I hope!!
:)
Kat

[Tia]

I have no way of knowing the true reason, Kat, and neither does anyone else who posts here.

If I had to guess, I'd say it could be a couple of things. It could be that the information revealed in the SWs a couple of months ago revealed a cause for concern. Or it could be that when Linda was forced by the statute of limitations to go ahead with the WDS if she were going to file it, her attorney advised her that the slayer determination gave her grounds to file for custody.

JMO

I think its as simple as that Cardinal. Nothing sinister behind the wait. Again, gaining custody from the bio parent is very difficult under most circumstances.

[Cardinal]

I think its as simple as that Cardinal. Nothing sinister behind the wait. Again, gaining custody from the bio parent is very difficult under most circumstances.

And in general, I think it should be very difficult, Tia. It's a serious matter, and the courts recognize that. The judge hearing this case will evaluate matters very carefully in order to make the best decision for Cassidy.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Card or anyone:

You mentioned recent allegations concerning C in the s/w's.

But, those were not new, at least not to L E.

So, did L E have the right to report such findings to the proper
authorities if those allegations were true, such as possbile drugging of the child, for instance?

And,does the fact that C was not removed, mean those allegations were not true then.?

And if so, can Jason have those allegations removed or dropped?

In other words, how are they going to be dealt with at the custody hearing..if they are indeed brought up with and levied against Jason?

What kind of proof would be offered?

Anyone know?
tia
Kat

[Cardinal]

Card or anyone:

You mentioned recent allegations concerning C in the s/w's.

But, those were not new, at least not to L E.

So, did L E have the right to report such findings to the proper
authorities if those allegations were true, such as possbile drugging of the child, for instance?

And,does the fact that C was not removed, mean those allegations were not true then.?

And if so, can Jason have those allegations removed or dropped?

In other words, how are they going to be dealt with at the custody hearing..if they are indeed brought up with and levied against Jason?

What kind of proof would be offered?

Anyone know?
tia
Kat

Kat, I'm not sure, but I think that even if LE determined that Cassidy was drugged that night, unless they can prove Jason drugged her, there wouldn't be grounds for removal.

As for your other questions, I really don't know.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal any one can pretent they are anybody you want them to be . I would have to guess the poster you are talking about had bad information. If LE had MY's car from the beginning why would they have to issue a warrant for it in July 07? On the Greta show why back in the beginning there was photos of a grey honda in JY's drive. Some on the forum said that was MF's car. I don't know if it was or not but that was about 4 days after the murder. So believe what ever you want about insiders but they have been proven wrong more times that one. About the phone calls. How do we know when he called? LE told us of 2 but how do we know for sure if there was more?

Oh, don't worry, Confused - if there's anything I've learned on these boards, it's that people can pretend to be someone they're not.

Like I said, I have no way of knowing how credible that poster's information is. But other than the minor discrepancy regarding the times of the phone calls, all of the other information jives with what we know. I also believe that poster is the same poster acknowledged by many to be a true insider. And since the information about the other vehicles being impounded was volunteered in the midst of an impassioned defense of Jason Young, it rings true for me.

I don't know why LE would have wanted another examination of Michelle's car. Someone suggested something about the GPS system. I do know that at the time that SW was requested, LE had a lot more information than they did immediately after the murder, so it could have been any number of things.

JMO

[BiggerRedDog]

On Nov. 15 2006 at 1:46 pm MF's my space was made public on this web site. On Nov. 15 2006 at 5:13 pm it was posted by a barbara that the my space just went private. This barbara said she should have kept the info to herself until she checked it out more. I wonder how many people read it that 4 + hours before it went private? I'm still searching be back with more later.
There is a lot to read through but you can find the posts by looking at the time.
http://www.mermaidsinging.com/2006/11/jason_young_murderer.htm
Poster's names on that blog are below the post, confused. The 5:13pm post to which you refer was made by a Captain Joe, not a Barbara.

[Cardinal]

I've beem reading the warrants again and have a question. The warrant states that JY has been in contact with witnesses even one key witness. How was JY susposed to know who these witnesses were? The warrants identify them by letters witness A and witnessB . I'm sure he knows who they are now after this warrant but anybody know how he could know then?

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083940/1228503982-20081205131317510.pdf


http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

I'm not sure it matters whether or not Jason knew the people he was contacting were witnesses.

But I don't think you can assume that the witnesses referred to in the later warrant were the witness A and witness B mentioned in the earlier warrant. By the date of the later warrant, there were undoubtedly many witnesses.

[5swab5]

I've beem reading the warrants again and have a question. The warrant states that JY has been in contact with witnesses even one key witness. How was JY susposed to know who these witnesses were? The warrants identify them by letters witness A and witnessB . I'm sure he knows who they are now after this warrant but anybody know how he could know then?

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083940/1228503982-20081205131317510.pdf


http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1201054/

One thing is for sure, we know that he didn't cut off contact with Michelle Money.

So there's a possibility.

MOO

[Cardinal]

I seriously doubt that LE would tamper with a GPS system when it states right on the warrant items to be seized blood . Any GPS system obtained that way would never see the inside of a court room.




http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/05/4083955/1228504020-20081205131306653.pdf

I only said that someone mentioned the GPS system as a possibility.

[Cardinal]

One thing is for sure, we know that he didn't cut off contact with Michelle Money.

So there's a possibility.

MOO

True. And for what difference it makes, Jason HAD to know she was a witness.

[Stellagant]

I'm not splitting hairs, Kat. Read it in context. 11/15/06 at 11:17.

And yes, that poster says Meredith's car was impounded that day.

News video did show a car in the driveway inside the crime scene tape. I don't believe Meredith's or Michelle's cars were seized and removed from the scene.

[Stellagant]

Exactly, but, why?
And who is HM?

Kat

The only reason I can see Jason agreeing to a visit is because his attorney knows Fishers are faced with a choice of either withdrawing their claim or moving forward with negative personal information about themselves made public and opposing counsel has conceded.

[Cardinal]

I would like to add that MY's car was probably still in the garage the 13 days LE was at the house. I doubt LE let any one cross the yellow tape and take any thing. LE may have looked at her car then. I can't say about MF's car if she had it in the drive way they may have checked it if it was on the street I think it would require a warrant.

I don't doubt LE examined Michelle's car during that 13 days - the SW covered the garage and its contents, too.

As for Meredith's car, you said you saw it on Greta, still in the driveway, 4 days after the murder. Do you think Meredith left her car there voluntarily for 4 days? The Birchleaf SW is for the residence and curtilage. I think that covers Meredith's car too.

You're right about the later SW being for blood/trace evidence. Makes me wonder if they got the later warrant to look for trace evidence from someone other than Jason, Michelle or Meredith. Someone's whose DNA was found later in the investigation.

JMO

[Stellagant]

I would like to add that MY's car was probably still in the garage the 13 days LE was at the house. I doubt LE let any one cross the yellow tape and take any thing. LE may have looked at her car then. I can't say about MF's car if she had it in the drive way they may have checked it if it was on the street I think it would require a warrant.

yes, that's the way I recall it. The search warrant for the house included everything in the garage but we don't know that LE gave Michelle's car an initial forensic examination. LE may have detained Meredith's car because it was within the crime scene tape but that doesn't mean they gave it a forensic examination. I think that would require a separate warrant and we've seen none. The way I interpret the July '07 sw, they decided to take a forensic look at Michelle's car only after discovering Meredith's conflicting statements about keys and CY.

[Stellagant]

I don't doubt LE examined Michelle's car during that 13 days - the SW covered the garage and its contents, too.

As for Meredith's car, you said you saw it on Greta, still in the driveway, 4 days after the murder. Do you think Meredith left her car there voluntarily for 4 days? The Birchleaf SW is for the residence and curtilage. I think that covers Meredith's car too.

You're right about the later SW being for blood/trace evidence. Makes me wonder if they got the later warrant to look for trace evidence from someone other than Jason, Michelle or Meredith. Someone's whose DNA was found later in the investigation.

JMO

Why wouldn't Meredith voluntarily leave her car?

I do not believe you are correct that a search warrant specific to a house and garage also includes a vehicle parked elsewhere on the property. I also do not believe there was ever a forensic examination of Meredith's car. It's just one more thing LE failed to do in a timely manner.

[Cardinal]

yes, that's the way I recall it. The search warrant for the house included everything in the garage but we don't know that LE gave Michelle's car an initial forensic examination. LE may have detained Meredith's car because it was within the crime scene tape but that doesn't mean they gave it a forensic examination. I think that would require a separate warrant and we've seen none. The way I interpret the July '07 sw, they decided to take a forensic look at Michelle's car only after discovering Meredith's conflicting statements about keys and CY.

If the focus were Meredith, why didn't they take a forensic look at her car as well?

[Cardinal]

Why wouldn't Meredith voluntarily leave her car?

I do not believe you are correct that a search warrant specific to a house and garage also includes a vehicle parked elsewhere on the property. I also do not believe there was ever a forensic examination of Meredith's car. It's just one more thing LE failed to do in a timely manner.

Because she needed it to get around?

Curtilage:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/curtilage

I think that covers everything on the property.

[Stellagant]

If the focus were Meredith, why didn't they take a forensic look at her car as well?


The focus at that time was Jason, not Meredith. I don't believe there was any examination of either Michelle's or Meredith's car at that time. They blew it.

[Cardinal]

The focus at that time was Jason, not Meredith. I don't believe there was any examination of either Michelle's or Meredith's car at that time. They blew it.

You misunderstood me. If the focus were on Meredith because of, according to you, "her conflicting statements", why didn't they get a warrant for her car at the same time they did Michelle's?

[Stellagant]

Because she needed it to get around?

Curtilage:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/curtilage

I think that covers everything on the property.

Are you saying Meredith wouldn't agree to leave her car there because she "needed it to get around?" Wow. The fact is, her car did remain there. Too bad about the inconvenience.

I suggest you read your definition again. Meredith's car was not "within a fence." A separate search warrant was needed.

[Stellagant]

You misunderstood me. If the focus were on Meredith because of, according to you, "her conflicting statements", why didn't they get a warrant for her car at the same time they did Michelle's?

Why are you asking me to provide reasons for why LE dropped the ball? I can't do that. All I know is that Meredith's sedan wasn't seen by the witness, LE later arrived at the conclusion the child was removed from the home and Meredith's keys were found on Michelle's car.

[Barbara2]

Are you saying Meredith wouldn't agree to leave her car there because she "needed it to get around?" Wow. The fact is, her car did remain there. Too bad about the inconvenience.

I suggest you read your definition again. Meredith's car was not "within a fence." A separate search warrant was needed.

In legal definitions, driveways are considered part of the curtilage. IMO

[5swab5]

(snipped) LE later arrived at the conclusion the child was removed from the home(snip)

Pure-T unadulterated BULL!

MOO

[Stellagant]

In legal definitions, driveways are considered part of the curtilage. IMO

Not according to this link. Meredith's car was parked in the Young's driveway and easily seen by the public.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/curtilage/

Determining the boundaries of curtilage is imprecise and subject to controversy. Four of the factors used to dtermine whether to classify the area as curtilage include:

1) The distance from the home to the place claimed to be curtilage (the closer the home is, the more likely to be curtilage);

2) Whether the area claimed to be curtilage is included within an enclosure surrounding the home;

3) The nature of use to which the area is put (if it is the site of domestic activities, it is more likely to be a part of the curtilage); and

4) The steps taken by the resident to protect the area from observation by people passing by (shielding from public view will favor finding the portion is curtilage).

[Cardinal]

Are you saying Meredith wouldn't agree to leave her car there because she "needed it to get around?" Wow. The fact is, her car did remain there. Too bad about the inconvenience.

I suggest you read your definition again. Meredith's car was not "within a fence." A separate search warrant was needed.

Fine. Try this:

http://www.tscmusa.com/CURTILAGE.htm

"Thus, in United States v. Griffin, (31) a warrant that described a residence as ``premises known as'' followed by the street address and a description of the house gave authority to search and seize soil and rock in the backyard, the contents of a tool shed and the contents of an automobile parked in the driveway."


ETA: And which side are you arguing anyway? "Too bad about the inconvenience."??? Why would she need to be inconvenienced if she were free to remove her car?


You're absolutely right - her car did remain there. Because, in the generic term used by "just the facts" on the blog linked earlier, it was impounded.

JMO

[Barbara2]

Areas Within the Curtilage that are Implicitly Open to the Public

Not every physical intrusion onto a curtilage will be viewed as a search. Generally, the courts will not give the same level of protection to a home's front yard as they would give to a home's fenced backyard. The design of many front yards, with walkways leading to the front door, implicitly invites the public to walk onto the front yard, at least insofar as the walkway allows them to get to the front door. In United States v. Tobin,(38) the full bench of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit stated that "there is no rule of private or public conduct which makes it illegal per se, or a condemned invasion of the person's right of privacy, for anyone openly and peaceably, at high noon, to walk up the steps and knock on the front door of any man's 'castle' with the honest intent of asking questions of the occupant thereof - whether the questioner be a pollster, a salesman or an officer of the law."(39)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n4_v67/ai_20576402/pg_5

[Stellagant]

Fine. Try this:

http://www.tscmusa.com/CURTILAGE.htm

"Thus, in United States v. Griffin, (31) a warrant that described a residence as ``premises known as'' followed by the street address and a description of the house gave authority to search and seize soil and rock in the backyard, the contents of a tool shed and the contents of an automobile parked in the driveway."


You're absolutely right - her car did remain there. Because, in the generic term used by "just the facts" on the blog linked earlier, it was impounded.

JMO

I've already provided a link. The Young's driveway doesn't meet the definition of "curtilage,"

Yes, Meredith's car remained there. However, I don't believe it was searched by forensics because if it had been searched, the media or neighbors would have seen it. JMO

[Stellagant]

Areas Within the Curtilage that are Implicitly Open to the Public

Not every physical intrusion onto a curtilage will be viewed as a search. Generally, the courts will not give the same level of protection to a home's front yard as they would give to a home's fenced backyard. The design of many front yards, with walkways leading to the front door, implicitly invites the public to walk onto the front yard, at least insofar as the walkway allows them to get to the front door. In United States v. Tobin,(38) the full bench of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit stated that "there is no rule of private or public conduct which makes it illegal per se, or a condemned invasion of the person's right of privacy, for anyone openly and peaceably, at high noon, to walk up the steps and knock on the front door of any man's 'castle' with the honest intent of asking questions of the occupant thereof - whether the questioner be a pollster, a salesman or an officer of the law."(39)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n4_v67/ai_20576402/pg_5

Whatever is your point? Meredith's car was parked in Young's driveway, not Tobin's.

[Barbara2]

Whatever is your point? Meredith's car was parked in Young's driveway, not Tobin's.

It's not worth arguing. Whether you accept the definition of "cutilage" or not doesn't impact this case, IMO.

[Stellagant]

It's not worth arguing. Whether you accept the definition of "cutilage" or not doesn't impact this case, IMO.

The search warrant was for the Young's curtilage. Meredith's vehicle was parked in their driveway. The car was Meredith's private property and LE needed a search warrant to search and seize evidence. These are facts whether you accept them or not.

[Cardinal]

I've already provided a link. The Young's driveway doesn't meet the definition of "curtilage,"

Yes, Meredith's car remained there. However, I don't believe it was searched by forensics because if it had been searched, the media or neighbors would have seen it. JMO

You're kidding me, right? Your "proof" that Meredith's car wasn't searched is because the media were elsewhere and the neighbors were at work???

[Stellagant]

You're kidding me, right? Your "proof" that Meredith's car wasn't searched is because the media were elsewhere and the neighbors were at work???

My "proof" is that there hasn't been a search warrant returned for Meredith's car.

[Cardinal]

My "proof" is that there hasn't been a search warrant returned for Meredith's car.


One wasn't required.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/states/Ohio.Ct.App.02/2002-ohio-1300.pdf

"In State v. Tewell (1983), 9 Ohio App.3d 330, this court held that a warrant to search a dwelling “and surrounding curtilage” includes the right to search an automobile parked on the driveway next to the residence."

If it's all the same to you, I'd prefer to accept the definition of curtilage from an appellate court rather than you.

[5swab5]

My "proof" is that there hasn't been a search warrant returned for Meredith's car.

So, in other words you don't have "proof".

MOO

[Stellagant]

One wasn't required.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/states/Ohio.Ct.App.02/2002-ohio-1300.pdf

"In State v. Tewell (1983), 9 Ohio App.3d 330, this court held that a warrant to search a dwelling “and surrounding curtilage” includes the right to search an automobile parked on the driveway next to the residence."

If it's all the same to you, I'd prefer to accept the definition of curtilage from an appellate court rather than you.


That's fine with me. Your lame spin doesn't change the facts that we know. If no search warrant was needed, why didn't LE conduct a forensic exam of Meredith's car during those 13 days? If Michelle's car--which was in the curtilate-- had been examined, there would not have been a need to examine it over a year later and seize evidence.

The definition of curtilage in another case doesn't change the fact that in this case, neither car was examined for forensics in those 13 days. Pitiful lapse on the part of LE. JMO

[5swab5]

That's fine with me. Your lame spin doesn't change the facts that we know. If no search warrant was needed, why didn't LE conduct a forensic exam of Meredith's car during those 13 days? If Michelle's car--which was in the curtilate-- had been examined, there would not have been a need to examine it over a year later and seize evidence.

The definition of curtilage in another case doesn't change the fact that in this case, neither car was examined for forensics in those 13 days. Pitiful lapse on the part of LE. JMO

I am SO sure that LE didn't examine either vehicle.

MOO

[Cardinal]

That's fine with me. Your lame spin doesn't change the facts that we know. If no search warrant was needed, why didn't LE conduct a forensic exam of Meredith's car during those 13 days? If Michelle's car--which was in the curtilate-- had been examined, there would not have been a need to examine it over a year later and seize evidence.

The definition of curtilage in another case doesn't change the fact that in this case, neither car was examined for forensics in those 13 days. Pitiful lapse on the part of LE. JMO

Just because LE obtained a later warrant doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do a forensic examination of Michelle's car in the initial stages of the investigation. It could just as easily mean they found someone's DNA later in the investigation and wanted to see if that same DNA was in Michelle's vehicle.

That explanation isn't nearly as lame, IMVHO, as claiming that a forensics exam wasn't done because the neighbors didn't see it.

JMO

[Stellagant]

Just because LE obtained a later warrant doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do a forensic examination of Michelle's car in the initial stages of the investigation. It could just as easily mean they found someone's DNA later in the investigation and wanted to see if that same DNA was in Michelle's vehicle.

That explanation isn't nearly as lame, IMVHO, as claiming that a forensics exam wasn't done because the neighbors didn't see it.

JMO

You can believe what you want as can I.

I'm certain LE didn't do a forensic examination of Michelle's car in the initial stages of the investigation.

[Kat4Eagles]

Here's the thing.

L E must have come to some conclusion that because C had so very little blood on her, if any, that she was either:

a) drugged to sleep through the nite/am
b) removed at some point from the home

So, what I was asking is, if L E did find traces of the drug being administered to C , did they report it to anyone?

Whether it was Jason or anyone, was it reported?
That is a very serious matter.

So, either that theory was confirmed or rejected and then they moved on to the possibility that C may have been taken from the home.

I don't know what the actual basis for that was, maybe the car keys, or
for all we know, maybe someone noticed that Michelle's car was not parked the usual way.

Say the car was backed in, instead, for instance.

But, clearly something about the car or the keys alerted them.

Those s/w's have some very compelling allegations that I was just wondering have they proven them, and if they did, could they be used in the custody case?

The other part would be if those allegations were not true, they were still very damaging to Jason, and at some point should be addressed.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You can believe what you want as can I.

I'm certain LE didn't do a forensic examination of Michelle's car in the initial stages of the investigation.


I think you are right, because what other reason to go get the car at such a later date?

Although it could be something like Card said too, something from someone else besides Jason..but, good luck with getting that entered into evidence as well.

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

Funny thing that Captainjoe was one of Jason's most ardent supporters at one time and tried to find anything that could be interpreted as dirt on Meredith and now he is vociferously defending her on another site and is absolutely convinced JY is guilty.

[Stellagant]

Funny thing that Captainjoe was one of Jason's most ardent supporters at one time and tried to find anything that could be interpreted as dirt on Meredith and now he is vociferously defending her on another site and is absolutely convinced JY is guilty.

Perhaps he hasn't anything better to do? I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who gives conflicting statements to LE.

[Stellagant]

Here's the thing.

L E must have come to some conclusion that because C had so very little blood on her, if any, that she was either:

a) drugged to sleep through the nite/am
b) removed at some point from the home

So, what I was asking is, if L E did find traces of the drug being administered to C , did they report it to anyone?

Whether it was Jason or anyone, was it reported?
That is a very serious matter.

So, either that theory was confirmed or rejected and then they moved on to the possibility that C may have been taken from the home.

I don't know what the actual basis for that was, maybe the car keys, or
for all we know, maybe someone noticed that Michelle's car was not parked the usual way.

Say the car was backed in, instead, for instance.

But, clearly something about the car or the keys alerted them.

Those s/w's have some very compelling allegations that I was just wondering have they proven them, and if they did, could they be used in the custody case?

The other part would be if those allegations were not true, they were still very damaging to Jason, and at some point should be addressed.

Kat

What could be reported and who would they report it to? No way to determine what drug was administered, how much, when or who did it.

How does that hurt Jason? The warrants were obtained in the context of conflicting statements made to LE by Meredith, not Jason.

[Leanne Weich]

Perhaps he hasn't anything better to do? I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who gives conflicting statements to LE.

Certainly doesn't seem like LE views Meredith's statements as conflicting or incriminating or they would not have recently directed a further SW at Jason, nor would Detective Spivey have, under oath, affirmed he believes JY is the murderer of Michelle, imo.

[daddydidit]

Perhaps he hasn't anything better to do? I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who gives conflicting statements to LE.


I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who won't even TALK to LE about the murder of his wife and son.

[Stellagant]

Certainly doesn't seem like LE views Meredith's statements as conflicting or incriminating or they would not have recently directed a further SW at Jason, nor would Detective Spivey have, under oath, affirmed he believes JY is the murderer of Michelle, imo.

Might not seem like it to you but the fact remains, the search warrants containing Meredith's conflicting statements were SEALED. Spivey has the Right to express his opinion.

[Kat4Eagles]

Funny thing that Captainjoe was one of Jason's most ardent supporters at one time and tried to find anything that could be interpreted as dirt on Meredith and now he is vociferously defending her on another site and is absolutely convinced JY is guilty.

Everyone has a right to change their mind, I asked him about that, and he was polite in answering.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

What could be reported and who would they report it to? No way to determine what drug was administered, how much, when or who did it.

How does that hurt Jason? The warrants were obtained in the context of conflicting statements made to LE by Meredith, not Jason.


I know, but at the same time, releasing such info, L E had to know what they were doing.

Very confusing to me , why so much info came out in a s/w.

Kat

[Stellagant]

I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who won't even TALK to LE about the murder of his wife and son.


No surprise to me that you don't understand. You don't strike me as the type who is willing to spend your own time defending constitutional rights.

[Kat4Eagles]

I really don't understand why anyone wastes their time defending someone who won't even TALK to LE about the murder of his wife and son.


Jason talked, but not enough to L E's satisfaction, I guess.

But, we should be hearing from Jason at the custody hearing.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Might not seem like it to you but the fact remains, the search warrants containing Meredith's conflicting statements were SEALED. Spivey has the Right to express his opinion.

That's true, too, and L E wanted them kept sealed even longer.

Kat

[Stellagant]

I know, but at the same time, releasing such info, L E had to know what they were doing.

Very confusing to me , why so much info came out in a s/w.

Kat

Not confusing if you look at the timing. L. Fisher's attorney in the wrongful death lawsuit claimed to know more than had been released publicly. Within hours of that claim, the DA dropped that warrant into the public's hands.

[Cardinal]

Might not seem like it to you but the fact remains, the search warrants containing Meredith's conflicting statements were SEALED. Spivey has the Right to express his opinion.

3 of the SWs directed specifically at Jason were SEALED, and the SW for Cassidy's DNA was SEALED. What's your point?

[Cardinal]

Jason talked, but not enough to L E's satisfaction, I guess.

But, we should be hearing from Jason at the custody hearing.

Kat

Do you think Jason will speak, or be deposed, Kat?

[Stellagant]

Jason talked, but not enough to L E's satisfaction, I guess.

But, we should be hearing from Jason at the custody hearing.

Kat

Doubtful. If there is a hearing, Jason's attorney can do the talking.

[Stellagant]

3 of the SWs directed specifically at Jason were SEALED, and the SW for Cassidy's DNA was SEALED. What's your point?

There were no sealed warrants directed specifically at Jason. There were warrants directed at his communication to and from others. If you can't understand that basic fact, I really can't help you understand my point.

[Cardinal]

There were no sealed warrants directed specifically at Jason. There were warrants directed at his communication to and from others. If you can't understand that basic fact, I really can't help you understand my point.

And the one for Cassidy's DNA?

[Barbara2]

Whats funny about that. Wasn't you here when CW said that the very same people that are buddy buddy turn around and stab their so called friends in the back. CJ just wanted to see what he could find out about JY so he played that side for a while now he is playing the other side. I wonder who he really is? I have thought maybe one of the deputies.

You would be wrong. He has never tried to pretend to be anyone other than who he is.

[Kat4Eagles]

Not confusing if you look at the timing. L. Fisher's attorney in the wrongful death lawsuit claimed to know more than had been released publicly. Within hours of that claim, the DA dropped that warrant into the public's hands.

You are good!!

Kat

[Stellagant]

And the one for Cassidy's DNA?

was to connect CY's DNA to the DNA found on the dropper.

[Kat4Eagles]

Doubtful. If there is a hearing, Jason's attorney can do the talking.


I am hoping for a heart~felt plea from Jason himself to keep his daughter, but I understand what you are saying and that is what he has an attorney for.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

was to connect CY's DNA to the DNA found on the dropper.


Are we ever going to find out if it did?
Kat

[Cardinal]

was to connect CY's DNA to the DNA found on the dropper.

And the reason it was SEALED?

[5swab5]

No surprise to me that you don't understand. You don't strike me as the type who is willing to spend your own time defending constitutional rights.


Anybody But Jason.

Must be nice to have two entirely different sets of rules to use as you please.

I can hear you screeching now, if Meredith had refused to speak to the police.

MOO

[5swab5]

Jason talked, but not enough to L E's satisfaction, I guess.

(snipped)

Kat

Yep, that Jason is a real talker.

He said "Talk to my lawyer", oops...turns out he did not have a lawyer at that time.

He said "The storage shed is for work", oops...turns out he had personal property in it.

No wonder he can't talk to the police.

He LIES!

MOO

[Stellagant]

Whats funny about that. Wasn't you here when CW said that the very same people that are buddy buddy turn around and stab their so called friends in the back. CJ just wanted to see what he could find out about JY so he played that side for a while now he is playing the other side. I wonder who he really is? I have thought maybe one of the deputies.

Nah, I think cops watch but they don't post, imo. No need for them to post, what with the circus performance some put on pretending to be cop, reporter, lawyer, etc.

[Cardinal]

Are we ever going to find out if it did?
Kat

Someday we will, Kat. I think. Maybe. :)

[Stellagant]

And the reason it was SEALED?

to protect the fact that CY may be able to identify the person who gave her the medicine.

[Cardinal]

Yep, that Jason is a real talker.

He said "Talk to my lawyer", oops...turns out he did not have a lawyer at that time.

He said "The storage shed is for work", oops...turns out he had personal property in it.

No wonder he can't talk to the police.

He LIES!

MOO

Swabby, "lies" is harsh. I think the preferred term is "inconsistent statements".

[Cardinal]

to protect the fact that CY may be able to identify the person who gave her the medicine.

Wow. If Cassidy could do that, she could also identify the person who killed Michelle. And we wouldn't be sitting here arguing about who it was.

No, I don't think that's the reason.

[JHP]

Nah, I think cops watch but they don't post, imo. No need for them to post, what with the circus performance some put on pretending to be cop, reporter, lawyer, etc.

I know it, some even come back as a different sex. Pretty random eh?

[Stellagant]

I am hoping for a heart~felt plea from Jason himself to keep his daughter, but I understand what you are saying and that is what he has an attorney for.


Kat

I'm confident it won't get that far, Kat.

[Stellagant]

Wow. If Cassidy could do that, she could also identify the person who killed Michelle. And we wouldn't be sitting here arguing about who it was.

No, I don't think that's the reason.

That's usually the outcome when one doesn't think.

I don't believe CY being able to identify who gave her the medicine is proof CY witnessed her mother's murder.

[Stellagant]

Now you made me laugh. You left out ME.

of course! My apologies.

[Cardinal]

That's usually the outcome when one doesn't think.

I don't believe CY being able to identify who gave her the medicine is proof CY witnessed her mother's murder.

Insulting me has been tried before - it doesn't work. You must be slow to catch on.

Both the SW for Cassidy's DNA and the SW for Michelle's SUV were SEALED for the same reason, IMO. To protect information which had not previously been provided to the public. Nothing earthshattering about it.

[Stellagant]

I don't think it will either Stella. JY bit his tongue when it was a WDS and about money. After all LF is his daughters grandmother. I don't think he will care how much mud he has to sling to keep his daughter.

The mud has already been hurled at him, he certainly has every right to respond. What parent wouldn't do the same thing?

[Cardinal]

The mud has already been hurled at him, he certainly has every right to respond. What parent wouldn't do the same thing?

So you think he'll talk?

[Stellagant]

Insulting me has been tried before - it doesn't work. You must be slow to catch on.

Both the SW for Cassidy's DNA and the SW for Michelle's SUV were SEALED for the same reason, IMO. To protect information which had not previously been provided to the public. Nothing earthshattering about it.

All I did was comment on your admission that you don't think.
Fact is, the search warrants were sealed and there must be a more compelling reason than to "protect information from the public."

I think protecting the safety of a small child is a pretty good reason to seal a warrant. Sorry you don't agree.

[Stellagant]

So you think he'll talk?

Absolutely but no deposition will be required by this Judge.

[Nellikat]

The mud has already been hurled at him, he certainly has every right to respond. What parent wouldn't do the same thing?


The parent who was named a Slayer? He had every right to respond to that too, yet he didn't.

[Cardinal]

All I did was comment on your admission that you don't think.
Fact is, the search warrants were sealed and there must be a more compelling reason than to "protect information from the public."

I think protecting the safety of a small child is a pretty good reason to seal a warrant. Sorry you don't agree.

Oh, I agree that protecting the safety of a small child is important. But I still say that if she could identify who - if anyone - gave her drugs, that would be the same as identifying who was in her house that night. And whoever was in her house that night, killed Michelle.

JMO

[Leanne Weich]

All I did was comment on your admission that you don't think.
Fact is, the search warrants were sealed and there must be a more compelling reason than to "protect information from the public."

I think protecting the safety of a small child is a pretty good reason to seal a warrant. Sorry you don't agree.

From whom did Cassidy need protecting? Certainly couldn't be the Fishers as they have all but been denied any access to her unless and until it might have been beneficial to Jason. Maybe LE felt the need to protect her from Jason which could be why they sealed the SW and Linda moved for custody once it was unsealed. That is about as logical as your abovementioned contention, imo.

[Cardinal]

Absolutely but no deposition will be required by this Judge.

But if he talks, he'll be cross-examined.

ETA: That would leave the door wide open, IMO.

[Stellagant]

The parent who was named a Slayer? He had every right to respond to that too, yet he didn't.

He's chosen to fight back, which is also his right.

[Cardinal]

From whom did Cassidy need protecting? Certainly couldn't be the Fishers as they have all but been denied any access to her unless and until it might have been beneficial to Jason. Maybe LE felt the need to protect her from Jason which could be why they sealed the SW and Linda moved for custody once it was unsealed. That is about as logical as your abovementioned contention, imo.

Actually, Leanne, that's pretty decent logic, IMO.

[Stellagant]

But if he talks, he'll be cross-examined.

ETA: That would leave the door wide open, IMO.

Not really. A judge decides what can be asked and answered, not opposing counsel.

[Cardinal]

Not really. A judge decides what can be asked and answered, not opposing counsel.

If Jason decides to talk, he will be cross-examined. Linda's attorneys are very good. The door will be open.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Not really. A judge decides what can be asked and answered, not opposing counsel.


So, can we discuss a little about the guidelines of what goes on in a custody hearing such as this.?

The plaintiff will present her side of the case asking why she wants custody and her attorney will present the court with a list of reasons, something like that?

Then will Jason, through his attorney, be asked to refute those charges?

Will each side get a chance to tell why they think they are better for C?

How will the murder of Michelle be brought up?

tia

Kat

[Stellagant]

From whom did Cassidy need protecting? Certainly couldn't be the Fishers as they have all but been denied any access to her unless and until it might have been beneficial to Jason. Maybe LE felt the need to protect her from Jason which could be why they sealed the SW and Linda moved for custody once it was unsealed. That is about as logical as your abovementioned contention, imo.

How did sealing a 2007 warrant protect CY from Jason? Jason is the one who was served the warrant in July, 2007 and CY has remained in his care since then. GMAB

[Kat4Eagles]

If Jason decides to talk, he will be cross-examined. Linda's attorneys are very good. The door will be open.

JMO


Card, and Jason's attorney is as well.

This isn't a contest of lawyers, this is about C.

Kat

[Stellagant]

If Jason decides to talk, he will be cross-examined. Linda's attorneys are very good. The door will be open.

JMO

Linda's attorneys aren't the Judge calling the shots. The door might be opened but rules of civil procedure prohibit a fishing expedition.

[Cardinal]

So, can we discuss a little about the guidelines of what goes on in a custody hearing such as this.?

The plaintiff will present her side of the case asking why she wants custody and her attorney will present the court with a list of reasons, something like that?

Then will Jason, through his attorney, ask why he refutes those charges?

Will each side get a chance to tell why they think they are better for C?

How will the murder of Michelle be brought up?

tia

Kat

That's what I mean about the door being open, Kat. One of Linda's allegations is that Jason was declared Michelle's slayer by the court. He will have to refute that finding, and that will mean he can be questioned about it.

But yes, beyond that, I imagine each side will present testimony as to why they would be the better guardian of Cassidy.

[Nellikat]

He's chosen to fight back, which is also his right.

I agree that is his right, but I don't think it was his choice.

[Cardinal]

Card, and Jason's attorney is as well.

This isn't a contest of lawyers, this is about C.

Kat

Yes, it is, but like it or not, the attorneys for both sides are going to have a contest. That's what they get paid for.

The only way to avoid it, is for Jason and the Fishers to reach some kind of agreement.

[Stellagant]

So, can we discuss a little about the guidelines of what goes on in a custody hearing such as this.?

The plaintiff will present her side of the case asking why she wants custody and her attorney will present the court with a list of reasons, something like that?

Then will Jason, through his attorney, be asked to refute those charges?

Will each side get a chance to tell why they think they are better for C?

How will the murder of Michelle be brought up?

tia

Kat

Not exactly Kat because this isn't a custody hearing that's resulted from a divorce. There has to be compelling evidence that the child is in harm's way for the State to get involved. The burden is totally on the plaintiff to convince the Judge to intervene between parent and child. That has yet to take place.

[Leanne Weich]

How did sealing a 2007 warrant protect CY from Jason? Jason is the one who was served the warrant in July, 2007 and CY has remained in his care since then. GMAB

As long as only Jason and his family were aware of the contents of the SW, Cassidy was probably quite safe. It is usually when one's dirty laundry is aired in public that the potential for danger escalates, imo. As a result of Jason's unusual behaviour with regard to this whole case, I don't think anyone can really predict how he'll react to anything.

[Cardinal]

Not exactly Kat because this isn't a custody hearing that's resulted from a divorce. There has to be compelling evidence that the child is in harm's way for the State to get involved. The burden is totally on the plaintiff to convince the Judge to intervene between parent and child. That has yet to take place.

Sorry, but the State is already involved. The State declared Jason Michelle's slayer, and the State accepted the filing of the custody suit. Right now, Cassidy's custody is under the State's jurisdiction.

Linda filed under GS 50A-201:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_50A/GS_50A-201.pdf

[Cardinal]

As long as only Jason and his family were aware of the contents of the SW, Cassidy was probably quite safe. It is usually when one's dirty laundry is aired in public that the potential for danger escalates, imo. As a result of Jason's unusual behaviour with regard to this whole case, I don't think anyone can really predict how he'll react to anything.

And that truly frightens me, Leanne.

[Stellagant]

Card, and Jason's attorney is as well.

This isn't a contest of lawyers, this is about C.

Kat

That's right. C is all that matters and she's not in peril in her current living arrangement. A child does have rights, too and living with her parent is one of those rights that our courts try to preserve. Remember Elian Gonzalez?

[Stellagant]

Sorry, but the State is already involved. The State declared Jason Michelle's slayer, and the State accepted the filing of the custody suit. Right now, Cassidy's custody is under the State's jurisdiction.

Linda filed under GS 50A-201:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_50A/GS_50A-201.pdf

Not accurate. Linda filed a claim, not the State. All the State did was put it on the docket for hearing. Cassidy still is in sole custody of her father, not the state.

[Cardinal]

That's right. C is all that matters and she's not in peril in her current living arrangement. A child does have rights, too and living with her parent is one of those rights that our courts try to preserve. Remember Elian Gonzalez?

Elian Gonzalez wasn't a US citizen, and as a result, he was returned to his father in Cuba. A US court didn't have jurisdiction, and his case is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[Cardinal]

Not accurate. Linda filed a claim, not the State. All the State did was put it on the docket for hearing. Cassidy still is in sole custody of her father, not the state.

Read it again. The State has jurisdiction to make a child custody determination.

[Stellagant]

As long as only Jason and his family were aware of the contents of the SW, Cassidy was probably quite safe. It is usually when one's dirty laundry is aired in public that the potential for danger escalates, imo. As a result of Jason's unusual behaviour with regard to this whole case, I don't think anyone can really predict how he'll react to anything.

You just said the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from Jason? Which is it? If the DA thought Jason is the killer, why seal the warrant from him after serving it upon him? That makes absolutely no sense.

Feel free to keep dreaming and believing everything ya want but I'm pretty sure the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from the killer, not her own father, and that LE asked the Youngs to keep it off the Internet, which they did.

[Stellagant]

Read it again. The State has jurisdiction to make a child custody determination.

I don't have to read it again. It is a fact that the State hasn't yet taken jurisdiction of the child.

[Cardinal]

I don't have to read it again. It is a fact that the State hasn't yet taken jurisdiction of the child.

The State may not have taken custody of Cassidy, but they do have jurisdiction to do so.

[Leanne Weich]

You just said the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from Jason? Which is it? If the DA thought Jason is the killer, why seal the warrant from him after serving it upon him? That makes absolutely no sense.

Feel free to keep dreaming and believing everything ya want but I'm pretty sure the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from the killer, not her own father, and that LE asked the Youngs to keep it off the Internet, which they did.

I guess my dreams are as valid to me as yours are to you. Funny they had to seal the warrant to protect Cassidy from the killer who, according to the lead Detective and Judge Stephens is the killer. Thanks for making my point.

Link to LE asking the Youngs to keep it off the internet? LE have nothing to do with the sealing of the SWs and, quite clearly, the only thing LE have asked is that Jason talk to them, which he has refused to do. I know ... it's his right but it makes absolutely no sense that the DA or even LE for that matter would ask any favours of the Youngs.

[Cardinal]

Speaking of dreams, in mine, the Youngs and the Fishers work out an arrangement, outside of the court, that gives Cassidy time with both of her families.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

[Silsbee]

Read it again. The State has jurisdiction to make a child custody determination.

Hi Card,
Can you elaborate a little more - I read it to mean that a court in the state of NC has jurisdiction as opposed to another state not that the State of NC will make the determination - does that make sense?

Sils

[Leanne Weich]

Speaking of dreams, in mine, the Youngs and the Fishers work out an arrangement, outside of the court, that gives Cassidy time with both of her families.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

Night Card, Sleep well. Mine is identical to yours. Such a shame that it comes down to having to take legal action in a case where logic dictates that Cassidy should be afforded an opportunity to know ALL her family.

[Stellagant]

Elian Gonzalez wasn't a US citizen, and as a result, he was returned to his father in Cuba. A US court didn't have jurisdiction, and his case is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

It's not at all irrelevant to this discussion, imo. A court did have jurisdiction and awarded temporary custody of Elian to his relatives, not his father. The Feds intervened on behalf of his biological parent. Courts have intervened in favor of biological parents objecting to adoptions. People who request custody of someone else's child must provide compelling evidence it's in the child's best interest.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/elian/etc/eliancron.html

January 7
2000 Elian's relatives in Miami file suit in state family court to have Lazaro Gonzalez declared the boy's guardian.

January 10
2000 A Circuit Court judge grants emergency custody of Elian to Lazaro Gonzalez.

[Tia]

Night Card, Sleep well. Mine is identical to yours. Such a shame that it comes down to having to take legal action in a case where logic dictates that Cassidy should be afforded an opportunity to know ALL her family.


Same here, so long as Jason didn't murder Michelle. If he did, my dream would be he never sees anything but the inside of his cell the rest of his life.

[Stellagant]

The State may not have taken custody of Cassidy, but they do have jurisdiction to do so.

That's true of any child.

[Leanne Weich]

Same here, so long as Jason didn't murder Michelle. If he did, my dream would be he never sees anything but the inside of his cell the rest of his life.

That I agree with. However, even if JY is indicted and convicted, I still think both the Youngs and Fishers should see Cassidy.

[Tia]

That I agree with. However, even if JY is indicted and convicted, I still think both the Youngs and Fishers should see Cassidy.


I agree with you.

[Stellagant]

Speaking of dreams, in mine, the Youngs and the Fishers work out an arrangement, outside of the court, that gives Cassidy time with both of her families.

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

There is no reason for Jason to work out any such arrangement at this point. He and his family have already been trashed for years on the Internet and in court filings. It's sad that this is the outcome but it should also come as no surprise to anyone. JMO

[Tia]

There is no reason for Jason to work out any such arrangement at this point. He and his family have already been trashed for years on the Internet and in court filings. It's sad that this is the outcome but it should also come as no surprise to anyone. JMO


Jason and his family trashed themselves.

IMO

[Tia]

Wasn't you here? I don't no nothing about wasn't, but I been here comin' up on a long while, and have no recollection about CW posting such a thing.

Now as far as CJ bein' a deputy? Lawd have mercy, girl ! Time for you to set a spell and gather yourself. Them deputies have way more important things to do than waste time on these message boards.

Settle yourself, have a spot of tea, and hit the hay.

Tomorrow's another day.

MOO Aggie

CJ is a deputy??? Well I'll be!!!

:ohmy:

[Tia]

What is it you bee woman?


:biggrin:

I never understood that phrase either!!!

[Stellagant]

How's the confirmed "slayer" working for you?

I think you need to take a break and get some fresh air. I don't have a confirmed slayer working for me.

[5swab5]

There is no reason for Jason to work out any such arrangement at this point. He and his family have already been trashed for years on the Internet and in court filings. It's sad that this is the outcome but it should also come as no surprise to anyone. JMO

Jason put himself and by default, his family in the situation they are in.

He is the philandering husband, that couldn't care less that his wife and unborn son were annihilated.

As for the party tricks, problems with indoor plumbing, etc...what did he expect? People would laugh it off forever? Someone, at least one of those times had to be offended. They may have held their tongues for Michelle's sake. But now, they can be helpful, by disclosing Jason's true character, umm, I guess I mean lack of character.

MOO

[daddydidit]

No surprise to me that you don't understand. You don't strike me as the type who is willing to spend your own time defending constitutional rights.


You are right about that - I wouldn't waste my own time defending anyone's constitutional rights. Do you really think you personally are helping Jason Young?

:lol:

[daddydidit]

You just said the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from Jason? Which is it? If the DA thought Jason is the killer, why seal the warrant from him after serving it upon him? That makes absolutely no sense.

Feel free to keep dreaming and believing everything ya want but I'm pretty sure the search warrant was sealed to protect CY from the killer, not her own father, and that LE asked the Youngs to keep it off the Internet, which they did.


Oh yeah, that Young clan is well-known for cooperating with LE.

[kingbuff]

Oh yeah, that Young clan is well-known for cooperating with LE.

Yeah. Finally. You and some others are getting the message that Jason and his family have cooperated totally with the police. The only thing Jason has NOT done is give up his right to silence. He refuses to be grilled.

When Spivey and his cohorts whine to their media buds that Jason doesn't cooperate, that's what they mean. He refuses to be grilled. Not one of the Raleigh media hacks have yet mentioned that Jason is standing on his rights. It's always the 'noncooperation' buzz word slyly slipped to them by the police.

[Leanne Weich]

There is no reason for Jason to work out any such arrangement at this point. He and his family have already been trashed for years on the Internet and in court filings. It's sad that this is the outcome but it should also come as no surprise to anyone. JMO

Boo hoo. Guess they didn't like the truth of Jason's behaviour coming out? As far as what has come out in court filings, what did anyone expect if they were hellbent on depriving Cassidy's maternal family from contact with her? What is sad is that Jason never anticipated that people would be onto him for his total lack of concern about the death of his wife and child. Even though he has never spoken out loud, he talked loud and clear in an email to Kim. That said all that needed to be said about what he was thinking - say nothing and everyone will forget that his wife and son were lying, at that time, in an unmarked grave.

It should really come as no surprise to anyone, least of all the Youngs, that Linda would apply for custody. She sure didn't have a lot of choices if she wanted to be a part of her granddaughter's life.

[Leanne Weich]

Yeah. Finally. You and some others are getting the message that Jason and his family have cooperated totally with the police. The only thing Jason has NOT done is give up his right to silence. He refuses to be grilled.

When Spivey and his cohorts whine to their media buds that Jason doesn't cooperate, that's what they mean. He refuses to be grilled. Not one of the Raleigh media hacks have yet mentioned that Jason is standing on his rights. It's always the 'noncooperation' buzz word slyly slipped to them by the police.

As a former English teacher, please explain what you mean by "Jason is standing on his rights".

[Jester]

Yeah. Finally. You and some others are getting the message that Jason and his family have cooperated totally with the police. The only thing Jason has NOT done is give up his right to silence. He refuses to be grilled.

When Spivey and his cohorts whine to their media buds that Jason doesn't cooperate, that's what they mean. He refuses to be grilled. Not one of the Raleigh media hacks have yet mentioned that Jason is standing on his rights. It's always the 'noncooperation' buzz word slyly slipped to them by the police.

Jason doesn't need to cooperate any more. It's much too late. What the police can say is that Jason refused to cooperate at the beginning of the investigation when they needed his cooperation. Jason can remain silent forever, and the police can forever say that Jason was uncooperative. Neither fact will ever change.

[Stellagant]

Boo hoo. Guess they didn't like the truth of Jason's behaviour coming out? As far as what has come out in court filings, what did anyone expect if they were hellbent on depriving Cassidy's maternal family from contact with her? What is sad is that Jason never anticipated that people would be onto him for his total lack of concern about the death of his wife and child. Even though he has never spoken out loud, he talked loud and clear in an email to Kim. That said all that needed to be said about what he was thinking - say nothing and everyone will forget that his wife and son were lying, at that time, in an unmarked grave.

It should really come as no surprise to anyone, least of all the Youngs, that Linda would apply for custody. She sure didn't have a lot of choices if she wanted to be a part of her granddaughter's life.

You don't seem to understand that in North Carolina, grandparents don't have a choice as to whether they are part of their grandchild's life. The "choice" resides only with the parent. There is already established case law on it.

I don't believe it did come as a surprise to the Youngs. Ms. Stubb's quick response indicates the custody claim was anticipated.

The very ugly rumors about Ms. Fisher's character and alleged inappropriate relationships have swirled on the Internet for quite some time. If her claim results in nothing else, I do hope it does result in the truth for Cassidy. Jason's reasons for not allowing visitation with specific members of his wife's family need to become public. JMO

[Stellagant]

Jason doesn't need to cooperate any more. It's much too late. What the police can say is that Jason refused to cooperate at the beginning of the investigation when they needed his cooperation. Jason can remain silent forever, and the police can forever say that Jason was uncooperative. Neither fact will ever change.

You're right. Jason doesn't need to cooperate and can remain silent forever. I doubt he will, though. Not when he has such a golden opportunity as Fishers have just handed him.

[Leanne Weich]

You don't seem to understand that in North Carolina, grandparents don't have a choice as to whether they are part of their grandchild's life. The "choice" resides only with the parent. There is already established case law on it.

I don't believe it did come as a surprise to the Youngs. Ms. Stubb's quick response indicates the custody claim was anticipated.

The very ugly rumors about Ms. Fisher's character and alleged inappropriate relationships have swirled on the Internet for quite some time. If her claim results in nothing else, I do hope it does result in the truth for Cassidy. Jason's reasons for not allowing visitation with specific members of his wife's family need to become public. JMO

Just the same, the choice to apply for custody of Cassidy resides with Linda and/or Meredith. All the rumours that have abounded on the internet about both LF & MF, have started with supposed insiders and friends of the Youngs. No doubt Linda's most able attorney warned her that if she had any skeletons in her closet they'd be revealed, as they should.

My view on Jason withholding visitation is that he knew he could not pull the wool over Linda's eyes and he did so for self preservation. I believe that is the same reason he did not answer the WDS.

Ms Stubbs basically waited until the last minute to file for a COV so I don't know what was speedy about that.

You and I are never going to see things the same way but, fortunately, I think this will be resolved quite quickly.

[Wyn]

You don't seem to understand that in North Carolina, grandparents don't have a choice as to whether they are part of their grandchild's life. The "choice" resides only with the parent. There is already established case law on it.

I don't believe it did come as a surprise to the Youngs. Ms. Stubb's quick response indicates the custody claim was anticipated.

The very ugly rumors about Ms. Fisher's character and alleged inappropriate relationships have swirled on the Internet for quite some time. If her claim results in nothing else, I do hope it does result in the truth for Cassidy. Jason's reasons for not allowing visitation with specific members of his wife's family need to become public. JMO

"Swirled" by someone claiming to be "like a father" to Jason, started by his own SIL. Never from any other source, never any details. Just allegations that there was "inappropriate relationships". Guess what, if any of the "ugly rumors" were anything but ugly rumors by people who support a "SLAYER", we'd have seen them by now. Somehow I just don't think any of the "ugly rumors" will pan out. But they will pale in comparision to Jason's antics. :wink:

The Fishers don't seem worried. Filed the WD Suit and won. Filed the custody suit. Will win. The Youngs must be still worried for someone to be working this angle at such a late date.

It's like a version of "Ground Hog Day" with puppets.

[Leanne Weich]

We're on the same page on this one Wyn. Maybe Jason and the old goat who loves to spew falsehoods felt they had to try to try to slime Linda to make themselves look better. Guess they didn't realise that Jason's friends could use logic and look at everything with unbiased eyes and show the moral fortitude to speak openly and honestly about the slayer. As you said so well though, even if the rumours were true which, I don't believe for a minute, will pale in comparison to Jason's antics.

[Leanne Weich]

i think he meant, "when jason is not sitting on his butt at his mama's house watching daytime soaps and the playoff games."

What a visual Surfie. Wonder how that would look on his profile on CL. I guess it might appeal to someone on welfare who has the same interests.

[Leanne Weich]

leanne,
i gather that jason can't really post the truth on CL,

"Angry, unattractive, insolent, indigent murderer seeks same..."

:thumbup::laugh: this having to have 10 characters is the pits.

[alterEgo©]

The sad truth is, a WD ruling has no bearing on guilt or innocence.

Do you have any proof that the allegations made 'upon belief' are actually true? Linda and Meredith didn't offer any with their pleading and some seem to think that simply making an accusation equates to a finding of fact.

[alterEgo©]

From whom did Cassidy need protecting? Certainly couldn't be the Fishers as they have all but been denied any access to her unless and until it might have been beneficial to Jason. Maybe LE felt the need to protect her from Jason which could be why they sealed the SW and Linda moved for custody once it was unsealed. That is about as logical as your abovementioned contention, imo.That's not logical nor within the bounds of the law.

If LE felt the need to protect Cassidy from Jason, they should have involved CPS. And since Jason was served the warrants that were sealed, how would sealing them serve to protect Cassidy?

[alterEgo©]

That's what I mean about the door being open, Kat. One of Linda's allegations is that Jason was declared Michelle's slayer by the court. He will have to refute that finding, and that will mean he can be questioned about it.

But yes, beyond that, I imagine each side will present testimony as to why they would be the better guardian of Cassidy.
I don't think so.

The ruling will more than likely be stipulated to which will make the murder a non-triable issue which means, you guessed it, no questions about the murder.

Just questions, as you say, regarding under whose custody would the best interests of Cassidy be served.

[alterEgo©]

If Jason decides to talk, he will be cross-examined. Linda's attorneys are very good. The door will be open.

JMONot necessarily

[5swab5]

(snipped)

I don't believe it did come as a surprise to the Youngs. Ms. Stubb's quick response indicates the custody claim was anticipated.
(snipped)

What "quick" response?

You mean the one that was filed at the eleventh hour and wasn't really an answer, just a request for an extension?

Doesn't sound like she jumped right on it to me. Sounds like the Youngs were counting the change from the sofa to see if they could risk the investment.

MOO

[JHP]

What "quick" response?

You mean the one that was filed at the eleventh hour and wasn't really an answer, just a request for an extension?

Doesn't sound like she jumped right on it to me. Sounds like the Youngs were counting the change from the sofa to see if they could risk the investment.

MOO

Thank-you for the humor this morning. Isn't it AMAZING how people see things differently. I believe Jasons Attorney had like what? 4 hours to spare.

I bet they had to check the car seats too! :wink:

[dkny]

I bet JY is worried about loosing SS benefits for CY and him raising CY as spouse of MY, from what she had earned and paid in, that is his only income he will have as a constant. She is his $ ticket. If LF and MF gain custody they will get the SS benefits and JY will be ordered to support CY and pay child support to LF/MF. Boy, JY really self destructed. JMHO

[Tia]

I have to agree . When LE said take a DNA and give us your prints hand and feet ,JY did. When LE said give us your car JY did. When LE searched his Mothers,sisters and his storage JY stepped back and let them. Where has JY ever given LE a problem except to listen to his attorneys and not talk. This case would have gone a lot different if LE hadn't taken the stand they took with JY on the night his wife and son was murdered. He's still waiting for someone anyone in LE to said to him sorry you lost your wife and son. It hasn't happened. IMO JY has lost jobs because of posters on the message board where he worked. Poster IMO that didn't even work there. I think its a disgrace when someone is tried on the internet instead of a court of law.

Confused, I don't know if you missed it or not, but Jason did not volunteer any of that info. An NTO was and search warrants were needed to get the info the LE needed from him.

[Tia]

I bet JY is worried about loosing SS benefits for CY and him raising CY as spouse of MY, from what she had earned and paid in, that is his only income he will have as a constant. She is his $ ticket. If LF and MF gain custody they will get the SS benefits and JY will be ordered to support CY and pay child support to LF/MF. Boy, JY really self destructed. JMHO

He sure did. Divorce would have cost him much less.

I am thinkning that if the Fisher's win the custody suit, they may not bother requesting child support for Cassidy.

[5swab5]

Confused, I don't know if you missed it or not, but Jason did not volunteer any of that info. An NTO was and search warrants were needed to get the info the LE needed from him.

Not only that, but he took his sweet time getting there as I remember.

MOO

[5swab5]

He sure did. Divorce would have cost him much less.

I am thinkning that if the Fisher's win the custody suit, they may not bother requesting child support for Cassidy.

Why bother?

You can't get blood from a turnip.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

Why bother?

You can't get blood from a turnip.

MOO
Oh well then that explains why Linda asked for amts in excess of $10,000 in compensatory and punitive damages in the WDS and then why she asked that Jason foot the bill for her atty fees to file her custody claim and for him to pay for a psych exam she requested.

Explains it perfectly.

Oh yeah.

[5swab5]

Oh well then that explains why Linda asked for amts in excess of $10,000 in compensatory and punitive damages in the WDS and then why she asked that Jason foot the bill for her atty fees to file her custody claim and for him to pay for a psych exam she requested.

Explains it perfectly.

Oh yeah.

That's OK.

A wage garnishment for life suits me just fine. Think his little construction buddy is paying Jason's taxes like he ought to be.

Heaven forbid Jason gets caught doing something questionable.

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I have to agree . When LE said take a DNA and give us your prints hand and feet ,JY did. When LE said give us your car JY did. When LE searched his Mothers,sisters and his storage JY stepped back and let them. Where has JY ever given LE a problem except to listen to his attorneys and not talk. This case would have gone a lot different if LE hadn't taken the stand they took with JY on the night his wife and son was murdered. He's still waiting for someone anyone in LE to said to him sorry you lost your wife and son. It hasn't happened. IMO JY has lost jobs because of posters on the message board where he worked. Poster IMO that didn't even work there. I think its a disgrace when someone is tried on the internet instead of a court of law.

Did he have a choice? One was an NTO (?) and the others were due to Search Warrants. I don't see where these are reasons to paint JY as agreeable. I guess he could have gone into hiding when the NTO was issued or barricaded himself in his mother's home and resisted the SW. However, submitting to a court order does not change a whole lot about his refusal to voluntarily assist in the investigation of his wife's murder.

[alterEgo©]

That's OK.

A wage garnishment for life suits me just fine. Think his little construction buddy is paying Jason's taxes like he ought to be.

Heaven forbid Jason gets caught doing something questionable.

MOO
It does? Well a judge will determine the $$$ based on Jason's current financial situation along with estimated future earnings.

Construction buddy? What in the world are you talking about.

[Tia]

Did he have a choice? One was an NTO (?) and the others were due to Search Warrants. I don't see where these are reasons to paint JY as agreeable. I guess he could have gone into hiding when the NTO was issued or barricaded himself in his mother's home and resisted the SW. However, submitting to a court order does not change a whole lot about his refusal to voluntarily assist in the investigation of his wife's murder.


I tried to explain this to Confused a couple of posts up. Maybe you will have more luck.

[Tia]

It does? Well a judge will determine the $$$ based on Jason's current financial situation along with estimated future earnings.

Construction buddy? What in the world are you talking about.

The amount of child support is based on "earning potential" (what Jason was making before he decided to stop working).

The reason it is based on earning potential rather than current income is because too many fathers would just quit working so as not to have to pay child support.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yeah. Finally. You and some others are getting the message that Jason and his family have cooperated totally with the police. The only thing Jason has NOT done is give up his right to silence. He refuses to be grilled.

When Spivey and his cohorts whine to their media buds that Jason doesn't cooperate, that's what they mean. He refuses to be grilled. Not one of the Raleigh media hacks have yet mentioned that Jason is standing on his rights. It's always the 'noncooperation' buzz word slyly slipped to them by the police.

Here's the link to what I think is an interesting perspective. I've x-ed out any names to avoid a charge of harrassing, baiting, etc.

http://frictionpowered.hqforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=23295#23295


[B]Campbell Law
Guest

[Tia]

That poster is saying the same thing that we have been wondering for 2.5 years now.

I never understood why Jason's attorney never put a stop to XXXXXXXX's relentless postings about the Young's activities and his smear campaign against the Fisher's.

Its not going to look good when this case heads to trial.

[Kat4Eagles]

Not exactly Kat because this isn't a custody hearing that's resulted from a divorce. There has to be compelling evidence that the child is in harm's way for the State to get involved. The burden is totally on the plaintiff to convince the Judge to intervene between parent and child. That has yet to take place.


Thank you, Stellagant.
:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

There is no reason for Jason to work out any such arrangement at this point. He and his family have already been trashed for years on the Internet and in court filings. It's sad that this is the outcome but it should also come as no surprise to anyone. JMO


I think it is more complicated too.

The Fishers want to see C with the opinion that they believe her Father killed her Mom.

How does Jason know that they won't tell her something alomg those lines.?

Or something like this..
"C, we have tried to see you so many times, but your Daddy wouldn't let us"

Kat

[alterEgo©]

The amount of child support is based on "earning potential" (what Jason was making before he decided to stop working).

The reason it is based on earning potential rather than current income is because too many fathers would just quit working so as not to have to pay child support.And they base earnings potential on current income.....

[Kat4Eagles]

And they base earnings potential on current income.....


I wouldn't believe everything you read.
Imagine, Jason going in front of a real Judge with a real job.
I hope his real friend goes with him too.
:rolleyes:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Oh, so you are just spreading more unsubstiated rumors with your own special little spin about illegal activity thrown in for good measure.


Who knows?

Do you think this custody suit is making some people anxious and stressed that it won't have the same results as the WDS where no response was entered?

I mean, now that Jason has a friend and a job!!
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Somehow, I just don't see child support being an issue for the Fishers. Getting the child away from the Slayer seems to be their main concern.

[Tia]

And they base earnings potential on current income.....


No. They will base it on what his income was prior to when he decided to stop working.

Of course, he has good reason if he is innocent, his wife was murdered and he was left to care for his daughter.

On the other hand, lots of single moms work and raise children, pay a mortgage, support a home, etc......, so I don't know how that would fly.........

He is not physically disabled that we know of, so what is keeping him from working and providing and managing a home for himself and Cassidy?

[Tia]

Somehow, I just don't see child support being an issue for the Fishers. Getting the child away from the Slayer seems to be their main concern.

I agree. I don't think they are even concerned about that. According to the Fisher's and most following the case, Jason murdered Michelle. He should not be allowed anywhere near Cassidy.

[alterEgo©]

That poster is saying the same thing that we have been wondering for 2.5 years now.

I never understood why Jason's attorney never put a stop to XXXXXXXX's relentless postings about the Young's activities and his smear campaign against the Fisher's.

Its not going to look good when this case heads to trial.How do you figure?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Who knows?

Do you think this custody suit is making some people anxious and stressed that it won't have the same results as the WDS where no response was entered?

I mean, now that Jason has a friend and a job!!
Kat

You are right. I think Jason and his family are stressed and doing everything they can to avoid having this go to trial. If they can appease the Fishers and make concessions to them to avoid the deposition and psych evaluation, then Jason will view this as a success. He is walking a tight rope right now. He doesn't want to talk (and end up in prison) but he also need to act like he is putting his daughter before himself. I think this is being done to keep his mother on his side more than anything else. IMO of course.

[Kat4Eagles]

No. They will base it on what his income was prior to when he decided to stop working.

Of course, he has good reason if he is innocent, his wife was murdered and he was left to care for his daughter.

On the other hand, lots of single moms work and raise children, pay a mortgage, support a home, etc......, so I don't know how that would fly.........

He is not physically disabled that we know of, so what is keeping him from working and providing and managing a home for himself and Cassidy?


Maybe that is what a WDS suit will do.
It worked for OJ.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You are right. I think Jason and his family are stressed and doing everything they can to avoid having this go to trial. If they can appease the Fishers and make concessions to them to avoid the deposition and psych evaluation, then Jason will view this as a success. He is walking a tight rope right now. He doesn't want to talk (and end up in prison) but he also need to act like he is putting his daughter before himself. I think this is being done to keep his mother on his side more than anything else. IMO of course.

But, Jason has a friend and a job now!
Do the Fishers work?
Who will watch C when they are at work?
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

But, Jason has a friend and a job now!
Do the Fishers work?
Who will watch C when they are at work?
Kat

I think LF is retired.

JY has "a" friend. WOW.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yes I picked ONLY you out of thousands of members for this rule.
Read Helpful Hints, if it's not there advise, it may have been lost in the transfer.

Thank you.

[alterEgo©]

Is this allowed here? The last 2 paragraphs sound like a threat.
Postings recorded?

KatOne that has been posted here time and time again....and a very empty one at that.

I guess some people don't understand what defamation, libel and slander really mean.

Or that's suing for such is a tort action that can only be brought by the party being defamed, libeled or slandered.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

One that has been posted here time and time again....and a very empty one at that.

I guess some people don't understand what defamation, libel and slander really mean.

Or that's suing for such is a tort action that can only be brought by the party being defamed, libeled or slandered.

What was this in reference to? What were the last 2 paragraphs Kat wrote about?

[alterEgo©]

You are right. I think Jason and his family are stressed and doing everything they can to avoid having this go to trial. If they can appease the Fishers and make concessions to them to avoid the deposition and psych evaluation, then Jason will view this as a success. He is walking a tight rope right now. He doesn't want to talk (and end up in prison) but he also need to act like he is putting his daughter before himself. I think this is being done to keep his mother on his side more than anything else. IMO of course.
Why do you think he would have to talk about something that would land him in prison and what is that something he would have to talk about?

[alterEgo©]

No. They will base it on what his income was prior to when he decided to stop working.

Of course, he has good reason if he is innocent, his wife was murdered and he was left to care for his daughter.

On the other hand, lots of single moms work and raise children, pay a mortgage, support a home, etc......, so I don't know how that would fly.........

He is not physically disabled that we know of, so what is keeping him from working and providing and managing a home for himself and Cassidy?
Well gosh, tia, what is preventing 7.2% of the workforce from working?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Why do you think he would have to talk about something that would land him in prison and what is that something he would have to talk about?

Judge Sasser has already made her opinion clear in the BC case. Someone being a murderer has a bearing on custody in her court.

Therefore, any deposition would certainly approach and possibly deeply involve that topic.

In any event, I think it is a mute point because Jason will never talk, be deposed, or undergo a psych eval regardless of the ramifications.

[Kat4Eagles]

Judge Sasser has already made her opinion clear in the BC case. Someone being a murderer has a bearing on custody in her court.

Therefore, any deposition would certainly approach and possibly deeply involve that topic.

In any event, I think it is a mute point because Jason will never talk, be deposed, or undergo a psych eval regardless of the ramifications.



We really don't know what Jason will do..
Look at how many people thought he would not respond to the custody suit.
I have no doubt, that whatever he does, he will do the right thing where C is concerned.

Kat

[JHP]

We really don't know what Jason will do..
Look at how many people thought he would not respond to the custody suit.
I have no doubt, that whatever he does, he will do the right thing where C is concerned.

Kat

Kat, he didn't actually respond to the custody suit. He requested an extention and motion to change.
I really wish I could see what you do as far as Jason being a caring responsible father.
IMO whatever he does will be the right thing for Jason. Cassidy appears to be an afterthought for his mom and/or sister.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

Judge Sasser has already made her opinion clear in the BC case. Someone being a murderer has a bearing on custody in her court.

Therefore, any deposition would certainly approach and possibly deeply involve that topic.

In any event, I think it is a mute point because Jason will never talk, be deposed, or undergo a psych eval regardless of the ramifications.
Uh Huh. And she's got the WD ruling to establish that in this case.

So proving Jason was the killer is not a triable issue for the custody suit as it was in the Cooper case.

And since it's not a triable issue, there is no reason for any depo to be taken on the subject.

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, he didn't actually respond to the custody suit. He requested an extention and motion to change.
I really wish I could see what you do as far as Jason being a caring responsible father.
IMO whatever he does will be the right thing for Jason. Cassidy appears to be an afterthought for his mom and/or sister.

MOO


I know, but he did something.!!
He didn't just wait for the day to come and go without doing anything.
Then, I could imagine what people would have said.

When I see pics of Jason with C, and I read that she is, in his own words, the center of his life, I guess that is what I go on.

:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat It just takes one person on a message board to get the ball rolling. Probably someone said he was working and that makes it true. The same is true for the visit with LF. We never did find out who those initials belonged to that started that story.


Hi Confused.:)
I hope Jason is working, it will make things look a little better for him.

I would like to know if the visit really happened too, but I guess it is one of those things that do not get a follow-up.


Kat

[5swab5]

I know, but he did something.!!
He didn't just wait for the day to come and go without doing anything.
Then, I could imagine what people would have said.

When I see pics of Jason with C, and I read that she is, in his own words, the center of his life, I guess that is what I go on.

:shrug:

Kat

Yet you choose to disbelieve all the mushy stuff that he wrote to Michelle Money. On what grounds? Did he have a gun pointed to his head when he wrote her?

MOO

[dkny]

He sure did. Divorce would have cost him much less.

I am thinkning that if the Fisher's win the custody suit, they may not bother requesting child support for Cassidy.


Yes, ITA w/you but JY needs to be held accountable for supporting HIS child. Support and visitation have nothing to do w/one another unless Court orders are not followed. JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Yet you choose to disbelieve all the mushy stuff that he wrote to Michelle Money. On what grounds? Did he have a gun pointed to his head when he wrote her?

MOO


I believe all the stuff Jason wrote to MM, I read it the same way you did.

:confused:

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I know, but he did something.!!
He didn't just wait for the day to come and go without doing anything.
Then, I could imagine what people would have said.

When I see pics of Jason with C, and I read that she is, in his own words, the center of his life, I guess that is what I go on.

:shrug:

Kat

JY could have really shown his love for C by loving, respecting, and honoring his marriage vows to her mother. He certainly isn't showing any of that now either. If he wants to do right by C do right by her mother.

He should take that big city expensive lawyer and go sit down with the cops. Get this whole thing cleared up and explained away. If he is worried about the cops turning his words around his lawyer will be there to save him. The lawyer will decide which questions he will and will not answer.

IMO, the reason that he has not already done this is because the lawyer knows that he is guilty and there are no safe questions for a quilty man to answer. We have heard that everything can be explained away. Well.........do it. If it's so easy why hasn't it happened? Some people keep saying that he will when arrested or when he goes to trial. Why wait? Why be arrested or even go to trial if you can avoid it? What will the excuse be after he is arrested, after he goes to trial? Will we be told that he is going to explain it all on appeal or his attorneys are going to explain it to the Governor so that he will a pardon or clemency. Sorry, the excuses just don't hold water.

[Kat4Eagles]

JY could have really shown his love for C by loving, respecting, and honoring his marriage vows to her mother. He certainly isn't showing any of that now either. If he wants to do right by C do right by her mother.

He should take that big city expensive lawyer and go sit down with the cops. Get this whole thing cleared up and explained away. If he is worried about the cops turning his words around his lawyer will be there to save him. The lawyer will decide which questions he will and will not answer.

IMO, the reason that he has not already done this is because the lawyer knows that he is guilty and there are no safe questions for a quilty man to answer. We have heard that everything can be explained away. Well.........do it. If it's so easy why hasn't it happened? Some people keep saying that he will when arrested or when he goes to trial. Why wait? Why be arrested or even go to trial if you can avoid it? What will the excuse be after he is arrested, after he goes to trial? Will we be told that he is going to explain it all on appeal or his attorneys are going to explain it to the Governor so that he will a pardon or clemency. Sorry, the excuses just don't hold water.


Maybe he is never going to be arrested or going to trial.

You think some new evidence is going to come in after 2+years?

I think Jason was scared and afraid to talk, possibly because of his relationship with MM at the time he was married, possibly because he didn't know he would be believed .

Not many believe him here.

I have days when I find it hard to believe in him too.

But, I am going to wait it out, see it through, and explore every other option.

Then, I will be able to say I gave this person every benefit of the doubt possible.

:)
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Do you remember there were some people here who actually thought Jason killed Michelle in order to have C, and not have to share her with Michelle if they divorced.?

So, if that motive were true, do those same people think he would let C just go to the Fishers?

And then pay them child support as well?

Wasn't that another reason or motive to kill Michelle, so he wouldn't have to pay child support?

Kat

[Tia]

JY could have really shown his love for C by loving, respecting, and honoring his marriage vows to her mother. He certainly isn't showing any of that now either. If he wants to do right by C do right by her mother.

He should take that big city expensive lawyer and go sit down with the cops. Get this whole thing cleared up and explained away. If he is worried about the cops turning his words around his lawyer will be there to save him. The lawyer will decide which questions he will and will not answer.

IMO, the reason that he has not already done this is because the lawyer knows that he is guilty and there are no safe questions for a quilty man to answer. We have heard that everything can be explained away. Well.........do it. If it's so easy why hasn't it happened? Some people keep saying that he will when arrested or when he goes to trial. Why wait? Why be arrested or even go to trial if you can avoid it? What will the excuse be after he is arrested, after he goes to trial? Will we be told that he is going to explain it all on appeal or his attorneys are going to explain it to the Governor so that he will a pardon or clemency. Sorry, the excuses just don't hold water.

Why wait indeed!

I think your post is right on. Jason is guilty. His attorney's know it.
Keeping his mouth shut has kept him a free man for over 2 years.

The Fisher's have forced him into speaking. If he is innocent, he should have no worries.

[5swab5]

Do you remember there were some people here who actually thought Jason killed Michelle in order to have C, and not have to share her with Michelle if they divorced.?

So, if that motive were true, do those same people think he would let C just go to the Fishers?

And then pay them child support as well?

Wasn't that another reason or motive to kill Michelle, so he wouldn't have to pay child support?

Kat


That was Plan A, but it didn't pan out so good, as the brutal murders of Michelle and Rylan didn't just go away and Jason didn't just get to collect the Life Insurance Policy and live happily ever after.

This is Plan B. Pat Young is going to fight for Cassidy until it means handing Jason over to the authorities.

I guess we will find out who's who in the zoo then.

MOO

[5swab5]

JY could have really shown his love for C by loving, respecting, and honoring his marriage vows to her mother. He certainly isn't showing any of that now either. If he wants to do right by C do right by her mother.

He should take that big city expensive lawyer and go sit down with the cops. Get this whole thing cleared up and explained away. If he is worried about the cops turning his words around his lawyer will be there to save him. The lawyer will decide which questions he will and will not answer.

IMO, the reason that he has not already done this is because the lawyer knows that he is guilty and there are no safe questions for a quilty man to answer. We have heard that everything can be explained away. Well.........do it. If it's so easy why hasn't it happened? Some people keep saying that he will when arrested or when he goes to trial. Why wait? Why be arrested or even go to trial if you can avoid it? What will the excuse be after he is arrested, after he goes to trial? Will we be told that he is going to explain it all on appeal or his attorneys are going to explain it to the Governor so that he will a pardon or clemency. Sorry, the excuses just don't hold water.

Not to mention all the money that wouldn't have to be paid out of pocket for Attys.

Opps, that's right, Jason doesn't care about money.

Guess he doesn't care about spending Pat's money either.

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Do you remember there were some people here who actually thought Jason killed Michelle in order to have C, and not have to share her with Michelle if they divorced.?

So, if that motive were true, do those same people think he would let C just go to the Fishers?

And then pay them child support as well?

Wasn't that another reason or motive to kill Michelle, so he wouldn't have to pay child support?

Kat

I think this was about him and Michelle. However, there is a little part of me that wonders if the drugs were not meant to be a none traumatic or violent way to take C out of the picture as well. I don't think there has been enough released to fully back this up, but I do wonder about it.

(By drugs, I'm talking about the ones referenced in the SW. It didn't seem clear when I read)

[Kat4Eagles]

I think this was about him and Michelle. However, there is a little part of me that wonders if the drugs were not meant to be a none traumatic or violent way to take C out of the picture as well. I don't think there has been enough released to fully back this up, but I do wonder about it.

(By drugs, I'm talking about the ones referenced in the SW. It didn't seem clear when I read)

Oh, this is a horrible thing to say.
:(
Kat

[kingbuff]

Yes I picked ONLY you out of thousands of members for this rule.
Read Helpful Hints, if it's not there advise, it may have been lost in the transfer.

Oh, leave B/S/whatever alone, Coldwater. Fearful people need to vent. B/S does no harm.

--Kingbuff

[5swab5]

I think this was about him and Michelle. However, there is a little part of me that wonders if the drugs were not meant to be a none traumatic or violent way to take C out of the picture as well. I don't think there has been enough released to fully back this up, but I do wonder about it.

(By drugs, I'm talking about the ones referenced in the SW. It didn't seem clear when I read)

I have thought this, since the drugging was first mentioned. Jason didn't have to "see" Rylan, just make sure that his oxygen supply was extinguished.

I don't think he had it in him to pulverize Cassidy, but a dose out of a medicine dropper and then just walk away from all the carnage...Who Knows?

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Oh, this is a horrible thing to say.
:(
Kat

Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens. In the news we have seen fathers kill entire families and we have seen mother kill their children. It is not some made up idea. I'm not saying it did happen this way but it does make me wonder.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Oh, leave B/S/whatever alone, Coldwater. Fearful people need to vent. B/S does no harm.

--Kingbuff

What would I have to fear?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I have thought this, since the drugging was first mentioned. Jason didn't have to "see" Rylan, just make sure that his oxygen supply was extinguished.

I don't think he had it in him to pulverize Cassidy, but a dose out of a medicine dropper and then just walk away from all the carnage...Who Knows?

MOO

With him having been declared the Slayer, it becomes even more important to the custody issue. This is why a custody deposition would have questions involving the murder and the evidence that may have been released to the Fisher's attorneys concerning the events surrounding the murder.

[alterEgo©]

JY could have really shown his love for C by loving, respecting, and honoring his marriage vows to her mother. He certainly isn't showing any of that now either. If he wants to do right by C do right by her mother.

He should take that big city expensive lawyer and go sit down with the cops. Get this whole thing cleared up and explained away. If he is worried about the cops turning his words around his lawyer will be there to save him. The lawyer will decide which questions he will and will not answer.

IMO, the reason that he has not already done this is because the lawyer knows that he is guilty and there are no safe questions for a quilty man to answer. We have heard that everything can be explained away. Well.........do it. If it's so easy why hasn't it happened? Some people keep saying that he will when arrested or when he goes to trial. Why wait? Why be arrested or even go to trial if you can avoid it? What will the excuse be after he is arrested, after he goes to trial? Will we be told that he is going to explain it all on appeal or his attorneys are going to explain it to the Governor so that he will a pardon or clemency. Sorry, the excuses just don't hold water.
It doesn't work that way.

You either answer all or none, you can't pick and choose. Once you invoke your right to remain silent, all answers stop. It's just like invoking your right to counsel, once you ask for an atty, all conversation stops and all communication from that point on goes thru the atty.

The reason he has not done this is because his atty, like every defense atty worth their salt, knows that what you say will be used against you - incriminating or not, it will used against you. It's as simple as that.

[alterEgo©]

With him having been declared the Slayer, it becomes even more important to the custody issue. This is why a custody deposition would have questions involving the murder and the evidence that may have been released to the Fisher's attorneys concerning the events surrounding the murder.
That's not correct.

Only the questions for triable issues will be allowed. The WD ruling will be all the court needs to determine who killed Michelle. The court's time will not be wasted hearing evidence for an issue that has already been determined to be fact by a court.

Unless you think the WD ruling is not a matter of law and not a matter of fact for another civil court to rely on. Or do you think Jason will argue that point?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It doesn't work that way.

You either answer all or none, you can't pick and choose. Once you invoke your right to remain silent, all answers stop. It's just like invoking your right to counsel, once you ask for an atty, all conversation stops and all communication from that point on goes thru the atty.

The reason he has not done this is because his atty, like every defense atty worth their salt, knows that what you say will be used against you - incriminating or not, it will used against you. It's as simple as that.

Brad Cooper did not answer all the questions that he was asked during his deposition.

If his attorney is present, the attorney can answer for him on certain questions and say that his client is not going to answer that question. During an interview he can choose to answer what he wants, right? He is not on the stand and he is not under oath.

Nah, his attorney knows he is guilty and he is keeping him quiet. Best thing for a guilty man to do.

[alterEgo©]

That was Plan A, but it didn't pan out so good, as the brutal murders of Michelle and Rylan didn't just go away and Jason didn't just get to collect the Life Insurance Policy and live happily ever after.

This is Plan B. Pat Young is going to fight for Cassidy until it means handing Jason over to the authorities.

I guess we will find out who's who in the zoo then.

MOO
I missed where Pat Young was named as a party in the custody filing, can you show where that occurs please.

TIA

[alterEgo©]

Brad Cooper did not answer all the questions that he was asked during his deposition.

If his attorney is present, the attorney can answer for him on certain questions and say that his client is not going to answer that question. During an interview he can choose to answer what he wants, right? He is not on the stand and he is not under oath.

Nah, his attorney knows he is guilty and he is keeping him quiet. Best thing for a guilty man to do.
We weren't talking about a depo. We were talking about being interrogated by LE.

Doesn't matter, taking to LE is talking to LE and anything you say to them will be used against you.

Using your logic then, Susan Smith is innocent and should be set free.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

That's not correct.

Only the questions for triable issues will be allowed. The WD ruling will be all the court needs to determine who killed Michelle. The court's time will not be wasted hearing evidence for an issue that has already been determined to be fact by a court.

Unless you think the WD ruling is not a matter of law and not a matter of fact for another civil court to rely on. Or do you think Jason will argue that point?

A father in a custody suit being declared a slayer will be an issue. The events surrounding the murder in which the father is the slayer will be an issue as well IMO.

Maybe the judge will look positively upon the fact that the father in question has never been found to be the slayer of a child that was brought full term. Not a very big mitigating point to bring to the table IMO.

Hey, I could be wrong. It's happened before.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I wasn't talking about a depo. I was talking about being interrogated by LE.

Doesn't matter, taking to LE is talking to LE and anything you say to them will be used against you.

Using your logic then, Susan Smith is innocent and should be set free.

Maybe she should have had an attorney with her when she was being interviewed. He could have told her to keep her guilty mouth shut.

I don't think for one second that someone is guilty just because that do or do not talk. You have to look at it case by case. I'm sure there are a lot of not so smart people who could have explained their way out of something sooner that they did. But, if this is the case with Jason, where is the line? What is the point where he says, "OK, I didn't do it because of A,B, and C. Here this explains the video, this explains the phone calls, this explains the DNA, etc." Why wait? Why put himself and his family through this if it can all be explained away as it has been advertised. It just makes no sense to not put an end to this if you can. I don't think this is the case. I think he murdered his wife and he and his attorney know they can't talk his way out of it.

[bookie]

snipped


If he is innocent, he should have no worries.



I wonder how many of the men exonerated by the Innocence Project heard that same sentence? Those men prove there is NO truth to that claim.

[5swab5]

I missed where Pat Young was named as a party in the custody filing, can you show where that occurs please.

TIA

She's not, but Jason sure isn't paying for his lawyer on what he gets from recycling pop bottles.

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

bookie,
show us the stats on innocent men who refused to talk to police about the murder of their pregnant wives.

:confused: That would be interesting to see. I would love to see how the study was conducted.

I was always under the impression that many of those freed were due to misconduct on the part of prosecutors. They withheld evidence from the defense, etc.

I didn't know that there were a great deal of cases where the innocent person was freed because they talked with the cops.

[bookie]

bookie,
show us the stats on innocent men who refused to talk to police about the murder of their pregnant wives.


My post was about innocent people period. The Innocence Project website is proof that innocent people DO have something to worry about. It is slam full of innocent people who spent years in prisons for crimes they didn't commit.

[5swab5]

Maybe she should have had an attorney with her when she was being interviewed. He could have told her to keep her guilty mouth shut.

I don't think for one second that someone is guilty just because that do or do not talk. You have to look at it case by case. I'm sure there are a lot of not so smart people who could have explained their way out of something sooner that they did. But, if this is the case with Jason, where is the line? What is the point where he says, "OK, I didn't do it because of A,B, and C. Here this explains the video, this explains the phone calls, this explains the DNA, etc." Why wait? Why put himself and his family through this if it can all be explained away as it has been advertised. It just makes no sense to not put an end to this if you can. I don't think this is the case. I think he murdered his wife and he and his attorney know they can't talk his way out of it.

Which are exactly the reasons that we know that Jason's family and Lawyer know that he is guilty.

If Jason were innocent, some cooler head would have screamed "ENOUGH" already! and dragged his tail to Wake County to take the pressure off of the Young family.

Brevard is not like a big city, you don't just blend in. They are all subject to the jeers and snickering, just by being related to Jason.

No way would they allow their reputations in the community to be destroyed, just because Jason didn't feel like answering a few questions. Nope, Nope, Nope. No one in their right mind would allow this to go on for so long...for no reason!

MOO

[5swab5]

bookie,
show us the stats on innocent men who refused to talk to police about the murder of their pregnant wives.

Or pay to bury them.

Or erect Headstones.

Or attend any celebrations of their wives lives.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

A father in a custody suit being declared a slayer will be an issue. The events surrounding the murder in which the father is the slayer will be an issue as well IMO.

Maybe the judge will look positively upon the fact that the father in question has never been found to be the slayer of a child that was brought full term. Not a very big mitigating point to bring to the table IMO.

Hey, I could be wrong. It's happened before.
It will be a factor for the judge to weigh in determining the best interest of the child. It won't be a triable issue.

Since NC does not recognize an unborn as a 'person', Jason could never be deemed the slayer of his unborn son. So why would a judge look positively upon what hasn't happened when there is no law to make it even possible to happen?

Ditto on that. :)

[alterEgo©]

bookie,
show us the stats on innocent men who refused to talk to police about the murder of their pregnant wives.
I'll be happy to, once you pony up ALL the cases in the last 100 years that involved the murder of a pregnant wife. Not just the ones that make the news, ALL of them.

TIA

[alterEgo©]

Or pay to bury them.

Or erect Headstones.

Or attend any celebrations of their wives lives.

MOO
Oh, so that's what determines innocence or guilt.

Guess tax payer money is just totally wasted on any type of crime scene analysis.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I'll be happy to, once you pony up ALL the cases in the last 100 years that involved the murder of a pregnant wife. Not just the ones that make the news, ALL of them.

TIA

After some of the things that have come out in this case, I wonder how many women have been murdered without anyone but the victim and the suspect being the only ones that knew about a pregnancy?

I wouldn't (now) be surprised to see that autopsies could have been done that only looked at injuries or trauma, but did not check for pregnancy or other conditions.

[alterEgo©]

Which are exactly the reasons that we know that Jason's family and Lawyer know that he is guilty.

If Jason were innocent, some cooler head would have screamed "ENOUGH" already! and dragged his tail to Wake County to take the pressure off of the Young family.

Brevard is not like a big city, you don't just blend in. They are all subject to the jeers and snickering, just by being related to Jason.

No way would they allow their reputations in the community to be destroyed, just because Jason didn't feel like answering a few questions. Nope, Nope, Nope. No one in their right mind would allow this to go on for so long...for no reason!

MOO
Really? When did you become aware of what others are thinking or what they know?

Have you ever considered working for psyschic hotline? You would really excel in that field!

No way they would allow that? Well gosh, Pat called NCWanted and was lamblasted for doing so. Damned if you do, damned if you don't when mentalities such as the one expressed in your post exist.

And that's pretty sad and pathetic cuz I know you have good points to make without all the clutter of 'if they were innocent they would/wouldn't ______'.

[alterEgo©]

you do it. i don't work for you.

why do you think jason was doing internet searches for
"anatomy of a knockout"
"ischemia"
"free p*rn movies"
"gay bars, gay bars NY"
?

2 were recreational, 2 were planning his wife's murder.
You must not be to interested in the stats then if you don't want to supply the raw data.

I wasn't aware it had been proven that Jason made those searches, only that they were found on a PC he and others had access to.

Why do you think Meredith told LE a completely false story about where she left her keys when she got to her sister's house?

[bookie]

most of the men who have been given new trials or had their verdicts
overturned due to the efforts of the Innocence Project were charged with rape. there usually are no eye witnesses to rape. many of these trials took place before DNA evidence was routine.

i don't really understand the dichotomy of the Innocence Project.
the work they do to free the unjustly imprisoned doesn't jibe
with their defense in high profile murder cases where their talents are used to get rich murderers off (OJ).

hold the presses --- Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld aren't on the board of directors of the Innocence Project anymore.


It doesn't matter what the charge is or was. The lame comment that innocent people have nothing to worry about is NOT true. The IP website shows that innocent people have a lot to worry about.

[alterEgo©]

After some of the things that have come out in this case, I wonder how many women have been murdered without anyone but the victim and the suspect being the only ones that knew about a pregnancy?

I wouldn't (now) be surprised to see that autopsies could have been done that only looked at injuries or trauma, but did not check for pregnancy or other conditions.
And to make it even more confounding, gvt stats on how pregnant women died include the deaths of women who were pregnant or had given birth in the past year. :huh:

[5swab5]

You must not be to interested in the stats then if you don't want to supply the raw data.

I wasn't aware it had been proven that Jason made those searches, only that they were found on a PC he and others had access to.

Why do you think Meredith told LE a completely false story about where she left her keys when she got to her sister's house?

Oh gee, I don't know.

Jason sent her to the house to retrieve a ridiculous printout on an EBay auction that had already ended, for an Anniversary that had already passed.

She finds her pregnant sister bludgeoned to death. The dog and the child are left unharmed in the house, she is dealing with a 911 operator, first responders and LE.

I guess her keys weren't exactly top priority at the time.

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

And to make it even more confounding, gvt stats on how pregnant women died include the murder of women who were pregnant or had given birth in the past year. :huh:

I have heard that murder was one of the leading causes of death for pregnant women. That alone is a horrible thought.

[5swab5]

It doesn't matter what the charge is or was. The lame comment that innocent people have nothing to worry about is NOT true. The IP website shows that innocent people have a lot to worry about.

I would say that an innocent man that refuses to speak and allows himself to be declared a "slayer" has plenty to worry about too.

Unemployment, shame, and bankrupting his family. What kind of life is that for anyone?

An innocent man's family would not stand idly by and let it happen. No Way.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

It doesn't matter what the charge is or was. The lame comment that innocent people have nothing to worry about is NOT true. The IP website shows that innocent people have a lot to worry about.
Absolutely.

This fantasy that Jason's atty 'knows' he is guilty and therefore telling him to remain silent would be hysterical if it weren't the stuff of the Salem Witch trials.

Water test anyone?