1/19 thru 1/20

[GentleBreeze]

and isn´t it sick, to try children as adult?
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/06/25/kidsed.html

It depends on the case and circumstances imo.

How horrific the crimes where. If they were planned or premeditated. If the suspect knew right from wrong and tried to cover up that they had committed the crimes..........etc.

imoo

[JusticeDawg©]

Any idea what the arrest was for? Is this the same one where the sister was using meth around the baby?

No, it just says local charges.
Same EXACT day her sister was arrested in Flagstaff for using meth around the baby.

I don't think it's a coincidence. :cool:

[FDInLaw]

IMO the gag order is in place because the child was 8 and they want to protect his identityUnder the law, the boy's identity is protected with or without a gag order. . . it really has nothing to do with it (if I am not mistaken). A gag order helps preserve evidence/testimony for trial and actively guards against unnecessary public prejudiced in the hopes of providing the defendant a fair trail. At least this is my layman understanding.

[wolfi_2]

It depends on the case and circumstances imo.

How horrific the crimes where. If they were planned or premeditated. If the suspect knew right from wrong and tried to cover up that they had committed the crimes..........etc.

imoo


but people which seriously like to try 8 or 9,10,11,12,13 year old kid's as adult are sick! IMO

[JusticeDawg©]

Tiffany's Mom's MySpace:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=9926271

GentleBreeze, I urge you to go here and see the wedding photos. Beautiful!

[JD1974]

Everyone who posts knows his name because the court isn't redacting his name from the filings.


ETA That was for FNinLaw...they are supposed to protect him, or at least I thought they were. The court filings have his name all over them.

[JusticeDawg©]

Under the law, the boy's identity is protected with or without a gag order. . . it really has nothing to do with it (if I am not mistaken). A gag order helps preserve evidence/testimony for trial and actively guards against unnecessary public prejudiced in the hopes of providing the defendant a fair trail. At least this is my layman understanding.

Correct.:biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

now everyone can see that little boy's face. how sad!he looks so sweet and innocent, not the monster who committed those terrible crimes. heartbreaking...just heartbreaking

We were being discrete about it. Can you delete this?

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm in Phoenix...what do you need?

You to go to St John's and I'll let you know from there. :thumbsup:

[FDInLaw]

It depends on the case and circumstances imo.

How horrific the crimes where. If they were planned or premeditated. If the suspect knew right from wrong and tried to cover up that they had committed the crimes..........etc.

imoo

I agree with you.

It's not "sick" to prosecute minors as adults. Some situations do warrant this. However, IMO, this may not be one of those cases. . . the verdict is still out for me personally, but I am nervous about how this was handled from the beginning.

[Jacobtk]

By that assumption that the age of 18 is some magical number for comprehending then there would be no underage juveniles tried for any crimes and that absolutely happens and even young juveniles have been tried as an adult.

Actually, most psychologists state that adult thinking does not fully develop until one's mid-twenties. You are correct though that the age of 18 is an arbitrarily chosen number, although it should be noted that it is also the age in which male must register for the draft, which may be the reason why it became the age of majority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority) in the United States.

[GentleBreeze]

GentleBreeze, I urge you to go here and see the wedding photos. Beautiful!

I went there but couldn't find the wedding pictures.

Are they the same ones we have seen very shortly after all this happened? I have those saved.

TIA

[JusticeDawg©]

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=9926271&albumID=1491628&imageID=29543578
Nicole?

I get so much more done when you guys are helping me. :thumbsup:

[JusticeDawg©]

I went there but couldn't find the wedding pictures.

Are they the same ones we have seen very shortly after all this happened? I have those saved.

TIA
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=9926271
Last box
There are 3 sites with wedding photos.
These are not the same.

[FDInLaw]

Not to be a party pooper. . . but I just wrote "Pam" and let her know that she may want to change her privacy settings. I don't feel good about this. . .

[Perplexed1]

Supposed to be the new boyfriend. I was just going to ask about that, you beat me to it...wonder if it is true or not?

Are you actually saying Tiffany already has a 'new' boyfreind?!?

[Cherishlove]

and isn´t it sick, to try children as adult?
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/06/25/kidsed.html
The mind doesn't fully develop until around the age of 23, and yes it is very sick to try a child as an adult especially an 9 year old??

[Details]

The mind doesn't fully develope until around the age of 23, and yes it is very sick to try a child as an adult.They're so far from developed at 8, 9, 10 - it's just nothing like an adult's ability to reason, decide, and understand consequences. Nothing like even a teenager's abilities - it's just so far.

[JusticeDawg©]

How can anyone save the identity of his boy when his own family has photos of him all over the internet? :confused:

[FDInLaw]

How can anyone save the identity of his boy when his own family has photos of him all over the internet? :confused:
Ugh. No kidding! :unsure:

[Details]

IMO, his identity is a hopeless case - it's out, on the internet for anyone who wants to find out.

But - so long as it stays off of mainstream media, major sites, so long as you have to search for it, it should be pretty OK, IMO, for his future life. Most people he meets won't know.

[JusticeDawg©]

And this person works in our school system!!!!

She was replaced, but she did work there in 2007.

[JusticeDawg©]

can you contact my space?

LOL, like they care. Contacting "Pam" was a better idea.

[FDInLaw]

The mind doesn't fully develope until around the age of 23, and yes it is very sick to try a child as an adult.
Do we really need to dig up the horrific cases that show how physically capable some youth have been when they destroyed lives and families??? Really? IMO age should not dismiss one who commits an atrocity. Special care and consideration needs to take place in juvenile cases, but to suggest that the judicial process should just give them a free pass is asinine. IMHO

[Perplexed1]

You to go to St John's and I'll let you know from there. :thumbsup:

:lol::lol:

[FDInLaw]

i hope so this little boy has got enough on his plate. you would think the grandmother would take off those wedding pictures of her daughter and son-law and the little boy for at least til this case dies down. tells me that she really don't care one way or another.

The family does seem clueless. They really need legal representation. . . someone to tell them how to deal with all this. MOO

[Perplexed1]

The mind doesn't fully develop until around the age of 23, and yes it is very sick to try a child as an adult especially an 9 year old??

23 huh? I find that believable. :tonguewag:

[JusticeDawg©]

23 huh? I find that believable. :tonguewag:

Me too. Remembering back what a dumb a$$ I was at that age. :lol:

[FDInLaw]

23 huh? I find that believable. :tonguewag:

Interesting article:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1225


Structurally, the brain is still growing and maturing during adolescence, beginning its final push around 16 or 17, many brain-imaging researchers agree. Some say that growth maxes out at age 20. Others, such as Jay Giedd of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) in Bethesda, Maryland, consider 25 the age at which brain maturation peaks. Various types of brain scans and anatomic dissections show that as teens age, disordered-looking neuron cell bodies known as gray matter recede, and neuron projections covered in a protective fatty sheath, called white matter, take over. In 1999, Giedd and colleagues showed that just before puberty, children have a growth spurt of gray matter. This is followed by massive "pruning" in which about 1% of gray matter is pared down each year during the teen years, while the total volume of white matter ramps up. This process is thought to shape the brain's neural connections for adulthood, based on experience.

[Details]

Do we really need to dig up the horrific cases that show how physically capable some youth have been when they destroyed lives and families??? Really? IMO age should not dismiss one who commits an atrocity. Special care and consideration needs to take place in juvenile cases, but to suggest that the judicial process should just give them a free pass is asinine. IMHOAge must be a consideration. When a 1 year old (to take the extreme example) is given a loaded gun to play with, manages to pull the trigger - should we not give them a free pass, and charge and try them for their atrocity? Or do we recognize the limits of their mental processes, and their inability to comprehend what they did? As they get older, their level of comprehension grows, their self-control grows - but it takes time - purely as a medical issue, it takes time for all of these parts of the brain to grow!

They may be physically capable - but emotionally, mentally, they are children. We don't let them drive, they should never have access to guns and other weapons. When the are given them, and a tragedy happens - it's the fault of the adult who allowed them access to tools only an adult should have.

You can't look at it, and judge the act and their responsibility by adult standards - when my daughter picks up a piece of fine china and smashes it to the ground - that's not the same as when an adult does. If - and that's a huge, HUGE if - this boy did it - he's the first in a few decades. And the last one was a case of horrible abuse. Fact is, 8 year olds don't do this - because normally responsible adults protect them from themselves. To think somehow this perfectly normal seeming young boy with no history of ANY sort of trouble nor misbehavior other than normal 8 year old failings in homework, is the first child in so long to kill - that's incredibly improbable. Neighbors, classmates - no one has seen anything to indicate he's got any problems - and he jumps (supposedly) from being normal, messy, little boy to sociopathic, ice-cold, perfectionist murderer - then back to malleable child for the interrogation?

Our juvenile justice system recognizes the lesser responsibility of those who have not had the time for their brain to grow all of the abilities of an adult. But there is an age below that limit, where you have to recognize that the indivdual is not a juvenile, but truely a child, where their actions belong to the adults who allowed them.


However, in this case, while many would say that no 8 year old has the mental capacity to commit murder - the big question is if he did kill anyone, since there are many forensic and other reasons to believe otherwise.

[JusticeDawg©]

i emailed childshopeandvoice to let her know about the little boy's pictures on pam's my space. so she can let eryn know if she doesn't already, because it is her son and she has every right to know of any thing involving her son.

I emailed it straight to Eryn already. That's ok I guess. She'll get it twice. :)

[Perplexed1]

Interesting article:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1225

All laughing aside....I was raised in a CRAZY half (both parents 1/2 or more) Indian household, in Carlsbad NM. That's one reason I follow this case so close, plus hearing that little guys voice. You can't judge Eryn by her past life. I was married at 15, had 2 children by 21! I have a whole different life now. I was a product of my invironment. Of course I got my GED and I manage retail. I sure raised my kids differently. This little boy needs to be with Eryn!!

[Perplexed1]

i emailed childshopeandvoice to let her know about the little boy's pictures on pam's my space. so she can let eryn know if she doesn't already, because it is her son and she has every right to know of any thing involving her son.

That's good. But I was sure glad to get to see his picture! I was looking fast! :biggrin:

[Perplexed1]

me too. he looks soooooooooo cute and innocent. he sure doesn't look like he would do what everyone is saying. he looks so much like his dad unbelievable! my heart just breaks for him every day.

That's why my heart goes out to him. My sister had a boy after I was married and gone, left him on his own too much. My mom ended up with him. He was eventually taken by CPS, at 9 yrs., and said 'I don't want to live with these people anymore'. How sad is that?

[Details]

23 huh? I find that believable. :tonguewag:I've seen it with plenty of people. Different people grow up at different rates - but there are plenty of 18 year olds that turn into very different people by their early 20's.

[Perplexed1]

I can't even tell you how many times that very idea has crossed my mind. I will let you know when I head that way.

Let's all go! :cursing:

[JD1974]

Are you actually saying Tiffany already has a 'new' boyfreind?!?



No. I was asking if it is true that she does. I don't know, it was posted somewhere else and the name which I am not going to post is posted by someone else. I am not posting the name because if it is not true, I do not want to involve some innocent person.

[JusticeDawg©]

I can't even tell you how many times that very idea has crossed my mind. I will let you know when I head that way.

Awesome!

Small video/camera/recording device required.

[GentleBreeze]

i hope so this little boy has got enough on his plate. you would think the grandmother would take off those wedding pictures of her daughter and son-law and the little boy for at least til this case dies down. tells me that she really don't care one way or another.

Maybe she wants to cling to happier memories before their lives were shattered.

[Perplexed1]

Your are absolutely correct! Eryn is there for the boy now and this is when he needs her the most. I pray he can get through this and they can both settle into annonominity.

Amen :wub:

[JusticeDawg©]

Your are absolutely correct! Eryn is there for the boy now and this is when he needs her the most. I pray he can get through this and they can both settle into annonominity.

The blond in his hair now was for good reason. Of course the media BLASTED that all over too. :cursing:
I'd say he looks very diiffent now. :biggrin: No photos.

[Perplexed1]

No. I was asking if it is true that she does. I don't know, it was posted somewhere else and the name which I am not going to post is posted by someone else. I am not posting the name because if it is not true, I do not want to involve some innocent person.

I saw the picture on the Axton Romero page. They seem like sweet people. Each family, and the extended families, have good and bad. I would not won't to be judged by my past, or family, if a tragedy befell us! I think this was someone after Tim. VR should not have let Tim live in their home. IMO

[JD1974]

The axtonromero page is not him, although the person who posted about the new boyfriend posted it there. I have no idea if it is true, thats why I was asking. The guys name has been posted on this board but I am not sure it should be unless it is confirmed. I would hate for this to be some random person with nothing to do with any of this having his name all over the internet.

[Details]

me too. he looks soooooooooo cute and innocent. he sure doesn't look like he would do what everyone is saying. he looks so much like his dad unbelievable! my heart just breaks for him every day.I never go by looks - but were he any sort of problem, the neighbors, his teachers, his classmates and their parents would know. They've said he was a normal, good little boy.

[JusticeDawg©]

Pam has it set to private now.

[Cherishlove]

me too. he looks soooooooooo cute and innocent. he sure doesn't look like he would do what everyone is saying. he looks so much like his dad unbelievable! my heart just breaks for him every day.I missed his photo darn but I'm glad it was taken off.

[Jacobtk]

Assuming what you say is true, then he should be tried in juvenile court. He doesn't simply get a free pass.

The juvenile courts in most states acknowledge that a child his age is incapable of forming intent and therefore should not be prosecuted at all. To this point, this is the reason why prosecutors do not like putting children under 10 on the stand. It is too easy for them to be confused, to forget or make up information to please adults or them to just clam up.

I think it is reasonable to exclude children under a certain age from criminal prosecution due to a child's inability to understand their own actions and the court proceedings. My preference would be that no one under 12 years old should face prosecution and that no one under the national age of majority limit should be tried as an adult. However, if the latter were not allowed, then I would want every child charged as an adult and later exonerated or acquitted to keep their adult status, meaning that person could sign legally binding documents, get a driver's license, register to vote, etc.

[Perplexed1]

Why was he taken? Weren't you able to take him? Sorry, I'm just nosey...you really don't have to answer.

I figured somone might ask that. I, and my younger sister, are both Christians. They would rather he went to strangers. He's been adopted by his foster family.

[FDInLaw]

"When the case of Christopher Simmons, who committed murder at age 17, comes before the same justices in October, says law professor Steven Drizin of Northwestern University in Chicago, defense attorneys hope to equate juvenile culpability to that of mentally retarded persons. "Juveniles function very much like the mentally retarded. The biggest similarity is their cognitive deficit. [Teens] may be highly functioning, but that doesn't make them capable of making good decisions," he says. Brain and behavior research supports that contention, argues Drizin, who represents the Children and Family Justice Center at Northwestern on the amicus curiae brief for Simmons. The "standard of decency" today is that teens do not deserve the same extreme punishment as adults."

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1225

If, in fact, 17 year olds are running around with such a serious mental deficit, why on earth do we have 18 year olds in Iraq toting automatic weapons, making split second life and death decisions??? I'm sorry, but this brain stuff is a crock of you know what. . . yes, the adolescent mind is still developing and special consideration needs to take place BUT. . . are you serious????

I agree that teens make stupid decisions, but still, to use this to argue culpability just doesn't wash with me.

[FurthurBB]

Do we really need to dig up the horrific cases that show how physically capable some youth have been when they destroyed lives and families??? Really? IMO age should not dismiss one who commits an atrocity. Special care and consideration needs to take place in juvenile cases, but to suggest that the judicial process should just give them a free pass is asinine. IMHO

Being tried as a juvenile and not being tried at all are not even in the same catagory. IMO

[FurthurBB]

i hope so this little boy has got enough on his plate. you would think the grandmother would take off those wedding pictures of her daughter and son-law and the little boy for at least til this case dies down. tells me that she really don't care one way or another.

Do not assume she doesn't care. It is much more likely that it never even entered her head how invasive people can be. IMO

[ChildsVOICE]

i emailed childshopeandvoice to let her know about the little boy's pictures on pam's my space. so she can let eryn know if she doesn't already, because it is her son and she has every right to know of any thing involving her son.

Thank you sooooo much! I have forwarded this information along with the link to Eryn and to his Aunt Amanda.


I always check the new mail on the childshopeandvoice myspace page first before trying to catch up here. Many times I come on In Session with intention of adding a few points but get bogged down with trying to catch up. LOL That's a good thing! Sometimes, I run out of time to actually make a comment! LOL

Point is... everybody if you have a REALLY important piece of information that you think I should pass on to the boy's Attorney or family, please let me know. I try to monitor how much email I send to them because of their time constraints. I have not contacted the DA but once, early on before the gag order and that was to give him some important tips that panned out to be good news. I figure he has way to much to do and I do not want to bog him down with answering too many emails. So, I try to only send things I think will help with the defense. A lot of times I give info to Eryn and Amanda and let them decide to pass it along to the DA. Some things they may already know and it would be more efficient to allow the family to sort through info so we don't duplicate, ect.

Thanks again. This was a VERY important thing you've done to help protect this little one!

[Hawk]

he looks so small. not near big enough.

So does a baby Taipan. But a little snake grows into a big one.

[JD1974]

I can only imagine how many emails Woods and Brewer are getting every day. I know I have emailed Woods...

[Jacobtk]

If, in fact, 17 year olds are running around with such a serious mental deficit, why on earth do we have 18 year olds in Iraq toting automatic weapons, making split second life and death decisions???

We do this and have done this for thousands of years because youths are easily manipulated, controlled and highly susceptible to group think. If one manages to gain their trust and indoctrinate them enough (which generally does not take long with the addition of peer pressure) they make excellent soldiers in that they will not question orders, they will throw their lives away recklessly and generally there is an abundance of them. Granted, the officers in charge typically do not think of the troops in that manner. However, the reason behind using young men is because of their physical stamina and malleability.

I agree that teens make stupid decisions, but still, to use this to argue culpability just doesn't wash with me.

Think about what you just wrote. If teenagers collectively make stupid decisions that you can cite it as a norm, then it stands to reason that there is something about being a teenager that lessens their ability to both control and understand their behavior through no fault of their own. Being such, how can you hold them fully culpable for something they cannot control?

[FDInLaw]

Being tried as a juvenile and not being tried at all are not even in the same catagory. IMO
True. I was being too dramatic (lol). :blushing:

[mrrogers]

Autopsy Reports:

Two Copper-coated bullets are found.
One in each man.
Both Copper-coated bullets found in the arm wounds of each man.

http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/bullet1.htm

this could be a breakthrough as the bullet in the gun was not copper coated
copper coated 22s arent that common but then to they could have used them then put a different one in the gun to throw everyone off
we are not dealing with fools instead put all the stuff together the head shots the lung shot the heart shot dont seem very randomly placed and i dont think c could do that good with a moving target

[mrrogers]

39 I think. Still too young. IMO

with all that going on he sounded like a walking time bomb

[Hawk]

The boy is not a snake, he's a human child. He will become a fine young man after therapy and support of loving people who believe in him.

Maybe so. Just fanning the flames a little in the middle of this love fest. Sounds like there's been a lot of fishing with barbless hooks today.

[FDInLaw]

We do this and have done this for thousands of years because youths are easily manipulated, controlled and highly susceptible to group think. If one manages to gain their trust and indoctrinate them enough (which generally does not take long with the addition of peer pressure) they make excellent soldiers in that they will not question orders, they will throw their lives away recklessly and generally there is an abundance of them. Granted, the officers in charge typically do not think of the troops in that manner. However, the reason behind using young men is because of their physical stamina and malleability.



Think about what you just wrote. If teenagers collectively make stupid decisions that you can cite it as a norm, then it stands to reason that there is something about being a teenager that lessens their ability to both control and understand their behavior through no fault of their own. Being such, how can you hold them fully culpable for something they cannot control?

I don't believe teens should be prosecuted as adults unless they are close to the cut off age and the severity of the crime warrants it. My argument is against those that feel it is quote “sick” to ever try an adolescent as an adult. I tend to avoid absolutes. . .

In the case of this child, his age alone should insure that if he is tried at all it should be as a child (IMO). If this youth is guilty of what is alleged, in my mind abuse may well be a contributing factor. Environmental factors would have played as much a role as brain development. MOO

[mrrogers]

just curious was tim's daughters his bio children? the guy sounds like he had a shady past and was wondering? i really don't want to question the deceased since they can't defend themselves. i am so surprised even though it it in his past that vince would have a man like that in and around his only son. i am curious though who did the little boy have a better friendship with tiffany or tim? i do hope and pray that brewer/wood get this boy out of there real soon.

i RAN HIS name thru the az law system there s no record for drugs just a few speeding etc

[ChildsVOICE]

This may be a point previously covered. However, I did come to this board a tad late. I happened to think of something yesterday...

I'm a Protestant who attended a Catholic school.

Check out this website:

http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html

"In the Bible, St. Paul gives us a list of grave sins. He states that anyone who commits these sins shall not enter the kingdom of God. "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, ..."

I was remembering when I first was transferred to my new Catholic school in 3rd grade. . I was this boy's age. After learning about the different sins I was TERRIFIED to commit a mortal sin! I had it in my head that if I did one of those things I would NEVER be allowed into heaven and God would hate me forever. This was a HUGE thing for all of us at that age, attending the Catholic school and Catholic mass!

Now, read this:

"The boy “took his religious faith very seriously,” said Sister Angelina Chavez, who has known him since he was a baby and taught his religious class every Monday at St. Johns Catholic Church."

(resource: The New York Times By SOLOMON MOORE
Published: November 12, 2008
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us/13child.html?pagewanted=2&fta=y )

I'm SCREAMING it NOW..."THE BOY DID NOT DO IT!":ohmy:

[JusticeDawg©]

I missed his photo darn but I'm glad it was taken off.

The ABC15 news lady is real mad. She wanted to see the site. She was too late.

[FDInLaw]

The ABC15 news lady is real mad. She wanted to see the site. She was too late.Good. :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

Good. :biggrin:

She knows what the boy looks like. Nicole was on that site. That is all she wanted.

[Hawk]

The ABC15 news lady is real mad. She wanted to see the site. She was too late.

Why would a professional journalist not know how to access the web? Why does she need the help of amateur posters on a discussion board?
No journalism Pulitzer in her future! Didn't she study Bernstein and Woodward?

[JusticeDawg©]

Why would a professional journalist not know how to access the web? Why does she need the help of amateur posters on a discussion board?
No journalism Pulitzer in her future! Didn't she study Bernstein and Woodward?

Ever heard of Internet Investigations?

I didn't think so.

[FDInLaw]

Why would a professional journalist not know how to access the web? Why does she need the help of amateur posters on a discussion board?
No journalism Pulitzer in her future! Didn't she study Bernstein and Woodward?

You would be surprised at what comes out on message boards. . .

[Hawk]

Ever heard of Internet Investigations?

I didn't think so.

If ABC15 doesn't have those resource personnel in house they are behind times by about 15 years. If this is their best outsourcing for information that's pitiful.

[mrrogers]

#461 01-19-2009, 04:20 AM
eagargal
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1

*sigh* I grew up in the White Mountains and knew the Romeros. Many of you feel that this boy couldn’t have carried out this crime. You are peering and prying into the lives of the victims’ families and devising ever more fantastic scenarios in which they were somehow responsible for this tragedy. In the spirit of fairness, I feel you should consider the kid’s mother’s family as well:

Eryn Thomas’ father, Russell G Thomas passed away in 2005 at the age of 48. He had been a guest of the State of AZ a few times, most notably for sexual abuse and assault in 2002:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publi...nty%20Superior

http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?...d=505965&rfi=8

Eryn’s brother (Russell G Thomas, Jr) and sister (Taryn Dawn Thomas), uncle Jesse James Thomas and cousin Jesse Jr. have been in and out of jail for various traffic infractions, disorderly conduct, assault, DUI and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. You can find their numerous cases on:

http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publi...ion/search.asp

My point being, if you’re looking for unsavory characters, you’ve got to look at all sides. It was fairly common knowledge that Eryn grew up wild and continued on. There was no mother around that I’m aware of. Eryn gave up this kid, not necessarily because she was young and poor and VR took advantage of that fact, but because she didn’t want to be a mom. I think she probably loved him but didn’t want the day-to-day experience of raising children. Also, with her upbringing I’m not sure she knew how to be a mom. Kids who know that their moms don’t want them carry a lot of anger.

Also, if you recall the testimony of the custody hearing, Eryn was living with a boyfriend in a trailer in Springerville with no utilities. She was already done with her 2nd marriage to B Bloomfield, apparently. Do you really feel that this was a better environment for the child? At best it screams irresponsibility, at worse selfishness and indifference towards her child. Even if you disregard the lack of running water and electricity, I feel it is very damaging for a child to see a varying stream of men waltzing through their mother’s bedroom door (here’s another unpleasant visual: It was a travel trailer; maybe there wasn’t a bedroom door…). Personally, I would never let my kids see a beau until I had a ring and a marriage license.

I believe the child’s most stable and loving environment was with his father and his extended family. I believe the kid started acting out because he was threatened by his father’s marriage. He didn’t see the addition of Tiffany as a plus; he felt that he was losing his father’s undivided attention. The addition of TR to the household was probably viewed as more competition for his father’s attention. His parents started disciplining him for not respecting the family unit, thinking he would grow out of it. He didn’t.

I think that the fact the grandparents and Tif have not spoken out in defense of CR’s innocence speaks volumes. This is a beloved grandson, the only son of their only son. I don’t believe they have “thrown him under the bus”, I feel that they have determined that he is guilty and are devastated and don’t know how to react. Many of you are projecting your feelings and experiences with your own children into this case, how would you react to your grandson if you knew that he had killed your son? How would you react to your stepson if all evidence lead you to believe that he had killed your husband? Give these folks a break; there is a lot of hurt going on.

I know it’s “Mayberry”, but do you really think the SJPD wanted to charge an 8-year-old? They are not that creative. I do believe they botched the interrogation, but out of shock and horror, not malice.

Regarding the blog site, please note that it was authored by the wife of VR’s cousin, not Tiffany. I would agree that it seems to be in poor taste, but how do you know that those three shots weren’t the only 3 seconds that they could coax a smile out of Tiffany? Some of you were quick to point out the she had red eyes and speculated the redness might be due to drug use, did it ever occur to you she might have been crying? I’ve noted there is one poster here who has been spreading the tale on many blogs that she took off her ring and took back her maiden name. Since he/she is the only one I’ve heard this from, I would take it with a grain of salt.

By the way, Dr. Philip Keen is the former chief medical examiner of Maricopa County, not the state. He is now the chief medical examiner of Yavapai County.

I applaud all of your efforts and discussion. It is rather exhausting. I leave you to draw your own conclusions, this is JMHO




************************wow*********************** ***

Very interesting read.

.................................................. .................
http://www.supreme.state.az.us/publicaccess/notification/partylist.asp?id=
heres a list of stuff for jj thomas all it is is stuff like wearing no seat belt or not paying bills ,issuing bad check charge was dropped

[Hawk]

You would be surprised at what comes out on message boards. . .

I'm not saying boards aren't worth looking at. But it shouldn't be a main source for primary information from the Internet. Sounds lazy to me. Even if she's a freelancer and not on the payroll.

[mrrogers]

I mentioned something the other day and no one responded, but in light of the new information that could point to a 2-shooter theory:

Is it possible that there may have been a 2nd shooter that went into Tim's truck looking for something? It has always bothered me that the passenger side door was open. Was Tim driving or was Vince? It was Tim's truck right? Didn't some people see them leaving work and wave to them? Who was driving?

Did they check the car door for prints? What if they were looking for drugs or something else and were after something in that car? They could have been searching the car from the passenger side when the other shooter came out of the house, saw the boy and said "let's get out of here!"

I don't know how significant this could be, but that door being open has always bugged me.

............................................
vinny and tim were on the way to help a neighbor vinny was passenger just ran in the house to get something he just didnt shut his door is all that tells me

[JusticeDawg©]

I'm not saying boards aren't worth looking at. But it shouldn't be a main source for primary information from the Internet. Sounds lazy to me. Even if she's a freelancer and not on the payroll.

FYI, cops, investigators and others are paid to watch for things on the internet. That's a fact. :wink:

[JusticeDawg©]

Having a sex offender for a father is pretty scary. Don't you think?

Is it hereditary?

[JusticeDawg©]

Would you want to grow up with with a sex offender for a dad? I sure wouldn't!

How do you know she grew up with him?

[Hawk]

FYI, cops, investigators and others are paid to watch for things on the internet. That's a fact. :wink:

I understand that. Key word being paid.

[ChildsVOICE]

Did you notice that the chest wounds were at a downward angle? Both of them. Makes me wonder if there wasn't one headshot first and he collapsed to his knees or somebody made him get on his knees.

Could he have been ducking down in a defensive manner to try to avoid the shots until he got somewhere under cover? Would that explain the downward angles to the chest? I'm out of my element on the medical terms.

[JusticeDawg©]

What about these folks?

"sister (Taryn Dawn Thomas), uncle Jesse James Thomas and cousin Jesse Jr. have been in and out of jail for various traffic infractions, disorderly conduct, assault, DUI and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. "

Why not talk about Tiffanys Criminal Charges?

Those others pale in comparison.

There is NOTHING on Eryn.

[JusticeDawg©]

I understand that. Key word being paid.

I got the photo of Nicole. Thank you for your support.

[Crispy]

Could he have been ducking down in a defensive manner to try to avoid the shots until he got somewhere under cover? Would that explain the downward angles to the chest? I'm out of my element on the medical terms.

I think the downward direction on the chest shots was from the bullet deflecting off the ribs

[JusticeDawg©]

I think the downward direction on the chest shots was from the bullet deflecting off the ribs

A 4 ft shooter would have made a ,22 cause an upward deflection.

[FDInLaw]

I got the photo of Nicole. Thank you for your support.
Are you a reporter??? help a newbie out. . . I haven't had a chance to read everything.

[Cherishlove]

I figured somone might ask that. I, and my younger sister, are both Christians. They would rather he went to strangers. He's been adopted by his foster family.I glad he was adopted, I would of taken him in a heartbeat and showed him the love he desearves. I'm sorry you didn't get him, I hope he is happy now.

[FDInLaw]

:lol: :lol: . . . :biggrin:

[JusticeDawg©]

Except her husband had full custody and it's sketchy as to her contact with the boy in all the years she wasn't parenting him. How many states has she lived in?

Ask the childs GAL. He is the one that gave Eryn custody.

[Crispy]

The urine test results from Tim Romans is not in the autopsy report. It skips right over that page.

[Cherishlove]

There are thousands more out there.

Here's just one.

This young lady is a cute as can be. She needs a family to adopt her so she can have a liver transplant. At the bottom of the page you can click on the link to see her picture.

Below is the information on a beautiful child that needs a home. For
her it could be a matter of life & death. If you can help, please
contact her case worker.

Photolisting Profile for Heather
Heather
Age:16
Gender:F
State:Pennsylvania

Favorites List: Add to Favorites
Finalize: Submit Favorites List
Search: Pennsylvania Children Return To Results New Search

Description
Heather is a beautiful young lady who loves being around people. She
enjoys swimming, playing volleyball, scrapbooking, reading and
watching movies. Her favorite television show is "CSI.� Heather
also enjoys spending time with her friends and she demonstrates great
leadership skills among her peers. Her favorite foods are Chinese and
carnival food. Heather plans to attend college where she wants to
pursue a career in the medical field. Heather describes herself as
trustworthy and expects the same from others. She would do best in a
family where she is the only child or one of two children. She would
love to find her forever family that will love and accept her as
their own. Heather would do well in a structured, loving and
supportive family environment. On 9/14/06, Heather was diagnosed with
autoimmune hepatitis, a disease in which the body's immune system
attacks liver cells. This causes the liver to become inflamed. The
disease is usually quite serious and, if not treated, gets worse over
time. Heather receives routine medical care at Hershey Medical Center
and the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh. She is currently on the
list for a liver transplant, although doctors will not complete the
transplant unless Heather has a family who is willing to support her
during the transplant and recovery. It is crucial that Heather finds
her permanent family as soon as possible so that she can get the
treatment that she so desperately needs. All families will be
considered for Heather. She is legally free for adoption.

More information about adopting Heather

http://photolisting.adoption.com/foster-adoption/children/heather-16481Yes there are so many children that need help, thanks for the information.

[Perplexed1]

I glad he was adopted, I would of taken him in a heartbeat and showed him the love he desearves. I'm sorry you didn't get him, I hope he is happy now.

Thank you.

Check your PM

[mrrogers]

Are things ever left off the evidence list intentionally - things that they share among themselves but just don't want the public to know? Or should things like the keys and bullet types be there for sure.
probably just ignorance but believe me people in that area will screw ya.
if anyone knows who did this there is very little chance of them coming forward. i dont know what it is but it starts about snowflake az and goes south.
the way this whole thing is playing out makes the hair standup on the back of my neck,suggesting a coverup. and before you ask why i say this ive lived in this aread for over thirty years and theres a lot of weird people up here. kinda like those groups of people who are all gung ho on camo and high powered weapons and live in compounds

[Jacobtk]

There are thousands more out there.

Here's just one.

Speaking as a former foster child and someone who still lives with my last foster parents (who take in at-risk children) I seriously hope Heather has not languished in foster care because of her medical condition. I know quite a few people are unwilling to adopt anyone who needs physical or emotional treatment.

[Jacobtk]

Here's an 8 year old boy that clearly doesn't understand death [...] I think this child and the boy charged are vastly different even though both are chronologically eight years old.

I doubt the boys are developmentally different. This sounds consistent with an 8 year old's inability to understand death. Speaking of which, as I thought about how the police described the boy's lack of emotion, it occurred to me that their description matches disassociation. When a person experiences a traumatic event, they sometimes shut off their emotions in order to not be overwhelmed. This is particularly true with children. If one were to assume Neckels' and Avila's claim that they thought the boy had witnessed the shootings, that would explain his flat demeanor.

I have witnessed members of my family and some of the foster children I have been around do this and I have been told that when I do it my demeanor is so indifferent that I come across like a drone. Again, that seems to match what the police claimed they saw.

[Hawk]

probably just ignorance but believe me people in that area will screw ya.
if anyone knows who did this there is very little chance of them coming forward. i dont know what it is but it starts about snowflake az and goes south.
the way this whole thing is playing out makes the hair standup on the back of my neck,suggesting a coverup. and before you ask why i say this ive lived in this aread for over thirty years and theres a lot of weird people up here. kinda like those groups of people who are all gung ho on camo and high powered weapons and live in compounds

What's the general consensus among people you know in that area regarding the guilt or innocence of the boy? How do they feel about the new Apache County Attorney?

[GentleBreeze]

Case Number: M-0341-CR-2003000388 Case Category: Criminal Case Title: ST OF AZ VS DEVALL TIFFANY A
Court: Flagstaff Municipal Judge: None Filing Date: 02/04/2003 Disposition Date: 03/10/2003

Party Name: TIFFANY A DEVALL Party Type: D 1 - DEFNDT/RESPNDT Date of Birth: 06/21/1978
Citation: C00094321 Count 1: LOCAL CHARGE Disposition Date: 03/10/2003 Disposition: OTHER DISMISSAL W/O PREJUDICE
Count 2: LOCAL CHARGE Disposition Date: 03/10/2003 Disposition: OTHER DISMISSAL W/O PREJUDICE



Event Date Event Description Party
3/10/2003 ORDR DISMSSL/CHRGE-W/O PREJDCE D 1
2/28/2003 PRETRIAL HEARING D 1
2/12/2003 CAL: PRE-TRIAL CONFERENCE D 1
2/12/2003 CAL: NON-JURY TRIAL D 1
2/4/2003 COMPLAINT FILED-UNIFORM CITATN D 1

Note the date. Same day her sister was arrested for Meth.

What was the charge?

It says that it was dismissed without prejudice.

Has she been convicted of anything or charged with another offense?

What offenses does the Municipal Court handle? Would a "citation" be a traffic offense?

imo

[Crispy]

What was the charge?

It says that it was dismissed without prejudice.

Has she been convicted of anything or charged with another offense?

What offenses does the Municipal Court handle? Would a "citation" be a traffic offense?

imo


I think if it was traffic, it would say it in the case category spot. Others do

[Hawk]

I would just like to mention to those that may belittle the relevance of a message board like this, that the Romans family spokesman expressed doubt about the boys guilt after reading this VERT SITE!!!

No one is belittling message boards.

[JusticeDawg©]

I would just like to mention to those that may belittle the relevance of a message board like this, that the Romans family spokesman expressed doubt about the boys guilt after reading this VERT SITE!!!


Michael Peterson case. Prosecutors admitted getting ideas from this message board.

Scott Peterson case had people hired to watch for stealth jurors, among other things on this site.

The list goes on, but who cares what any one of them thinks, as long as things are getting done. :cool:

[Hawk]

Michael Peterson case. Prosecutors admitted getting ideas from this message board.

Scott Peterson case had people hired to watch for stealth jurors, among other things on this site.

The list goes on, but who cares what any one of them thinks, as long as things are getting done. :cool:

Sorry to have touched a nerve.
'As long as things are getting done' is certainly the objective. I hope everyone keeps up the good work.

[GentleBreeze]

I think if it was traffic, it would say it in the case category spot. Others do

I would have thought it would state what the offense was no matter what it was.

Anyway, it was dismissed. I just have never heard the word "citation" used except in traffic related cases. A "citation" makes me think it was a "ticket" of some sort.



imo

[ChildsVOICE]

I've created a petition for little Child Romero's release into his mother's custody and/or other family members deemed responsible by the DA and the boy's Guardian Ad Litem. Read the entire petition at:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

Let's see if this works!

Legal Eagles, Give me your feedback on the wording. Got any ideas, let me know.

Thanks!

[GentleBreeze]

drunk and disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, DWI, are those citations??

You came to the wrong one to ask that, Iam.:laugh: I haven't had but one ticket in my life and that was for running a yellow light that turned red... in the 80s.

But it may have been a DUI or disturbing the peace, I guess.

imoo

[Cherishlove]

I've created a petition for little Child Romero's release into his mother's custody and/or other family members deemed responsible by the DA and the boy's Guardian Ad Litem. Read the entire petition at:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

Let's see if this works!

Legal Eagles, Give me your feedback on the wording. Got any ideas, let me know.

Thanks!That is wonderful, thank you. I just signed it.

[Hawk]

I've created a petition for little Child Romero's release into his mother's custody and/or other family members deemed responsible by the DA and the boy's Guardian Ad Litem. Read the entire petition at:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

Let's see if this works!

Legal Eagles, Give me your feedback on the wording. Got any ideas, let me know.

Thanks!

I signed too, and left a comment, then forwarded it to many others.

[Crispy]

I signed and I'm gonna pass it on!

[Hawk]

If you really want to prove the power of discussion boards here's the chance! Let's get the thousand signers and more.
There's seven signers already from seven different states!

[ChildsVOICE]

If you really want to prove the power of discussion boards here's the chance! Let's get the thousand signers and more.
There's seven signers already from seven different states!

Thanks Everybody! Keep forwarding! Yeah!:thumbsup::biggrin:

[Dallasnc]

If you really want to prove the power of discussion boards here's the chance! Let's get the thousand signers and more.
There's seven signers already from seven different states!

I'm North Carolina.

[JusticeDawg©]

Thanks Everybody! Keep forwarding! Yeah!:thumbsup::biggrin:

I put it on the comment boards too. :biggrin:

[mrrogers]

What is up with Tim he had both atherosclerosis and CPOD. That is very odd for a person of only 35. He must have smoked like 3 packs a day and eaten every bad thing known to man. IMO

with the problems he had i doubt he had more than another 5 years

[Hawk]

Can the link be posted in the comments section of the AZ news sites under their articles? Might be good to have a few hundred (or thousand) Arizona citizens sign.

[Perplexed1]

with the problems he had i doubt he had more than another 5 years

Indians aren't the healthiest people. My dad died early, as well as his dad. We had many birth defects in our Indian family. Too much in-breeding? Plus unhealthy habits. IMO

[mrrogers]

what can i say about you your awesome!! i pray it works for the little boy. it gave me great pleasure to sign my name to it. thanks again

unless the judge thinks it ok it wont happen i dont think
this judge SEEMSto be cutting the boy every break he can

[JusticeDawg©]

unless the judge thinks it ok it wont happen i dont think
this judge SEEMSto be cutting the boy every break he can

I fax the H$LL out of him. :tonguewag: Everyday, about 10x a day.

[Hawk]

unless the judge thinks it ok it wont happen i dont think
this judge SEEMSto be cutting the boy every break he can

Even so, it can't hurt. Might gets someones attention, anyway.

[JusticeDawg©]

Mich. police: Boy, 8, spent 10 days with dead mom
January 20th, 2009 @ 7:09pm
By DAVID N. GOODMAN
Associated Press Writer

ROMULUS, Mich. (AP) - An 8-year-old boy lived for more than a week with the body of his dead mother before telling a concerned shopkeeper his mom was "in a better place," police said. Gaynell Tipado, 41, apparently died Jan. 9 in their apartment in the Detroit suburb of Romulus, and the boy survived in part by eating dried rice, butter and flour, authorities said.

more
http://ktar.com/?nid=45&sid=1028735

[Cherishlove]

Mich. police: Boy, 8, spent 10 days with dead mom
January 20th, 2009 @ 7:09pm
By DAVID N. GOODMAN
Associated Press Writer

ROMULUS, Mich. (AP) - An 8-year-old boy lived for more than a week with the body of his dead mother before telling a concerned shopkeeper his mom was "in a better place," police said. Gaynell Tipado, 41, apparently died Jan. 9 in their apartment in the Detroit suburb of Romulus, and the boy survived in part by eating dried rice, butter and flour, authorities said.

more
http://ktar.com/?nid=45&sid=1028735I live about 2 hours from there I hadn't even heard this story, one of my best friends lives in Romulus, and she never told me this story? Good thing he didn't live in St. Johns, AZ. I hope the foster family is good to him.

[mina]

The urine test results from Tim Romans is not in the autopsy report. It skips right over that page.

Good catch!!

You're right - Romero's report includes lab 3 pages, but Roman's only has two, numbered 1 and 3. Page 2 has the urinalysis results.

Another honest mistake?

[JusticeDawg©]

Good catch!!

You're right - Romero's report includes lab 3 pages, but Roman's only has two, numbered 1 and 3. Page 2 has the urinalysis results.

Another honest mistake?

Honesty and Apache County DA = OXYMORON

:lol:

[JusticeDawg©]

Unbelievable story. Yes...this is the mind of an 8 year old.

When my 8 year old was mad at me about 6 months ago, he decided, along with his 5 year old brother, to leave home and go out on his own. He and his brother proceeded to pack a suitcase filled with these essential items:

Baseball cards
WWE wrestling action figures
Magazines
Potato chips
A couple of candy bars
2 stuffed animals
Their favorite blankets
$5.37
Their pet hamster

They were dead serious and spent about two hours planning their escape....even wrote goodbye notes and my little guy drew me pictures to remember him by.

8 year olds think and act like 8 year olds
5 year olds think and act like 5 year olds (and sometimes how 8 year olds tell them to.)

He kept walkng to the store. In pajamas. His mother was dead!

Now I am really getting PO'd.

[ChildsVOICE]

If you have any trouble with the page being moved on the petition link, I've copied the new one:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-release-9-year-old-child-romero

Do not know why the original one was moved. I've tested this one.

:blushing:

[JusticeDawg©]

Candy's myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=61820199

Her Friend Cody:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14110682

CODY ~TL4L~'s Companies
Apache County Sheriffs Office
St. Johns, Arizona US
Detention Officer
County Jail/Detention

[Details]

Anyone know what a urinalysis test would show that a blood test would not?A different time frame. Leaves the blood, filtered by kidneys, goes into urine, waits there.

[ChildsVOICE]

You got a link for that? Didn't think so. It's just your opinion.

Its simply Geometry and Physics.
or
Just plain common sense. Don't need a link for that.

Think about it. Kneel down to make yourself 4'. Take a broom handle and aim the end toward someone you know is about TR's height. Imagine a straight line from the end of the broom handle through the body of the person. The line will be going upward.

A person taller than TR aiming at his chest would cause a slight angle downward. A person the same size as TR would cause a straight line. A person shorter would cause an angle upward. Plus, you have to factor in the fact of his bent knees/legs; the fact he may be bent over, ect. ect.

[ChildsVOICE]

Candy's myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=61820199

Her Friend Cody:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14110682

CODY ~TL4L~'s Companies
Apache County Sheriffs Office
St. Johns, Arizona US
Detention Officer
County Jail/Detention

Wow. Too afraid to say anything more than that. Remind me to drive waaaaayyyyy around St. Johns the next time I'm driving through AZ. Don't think that'll be anytime soon.:ohmy:

[Cherishlove]

Candy's myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=61820199

Her Friend Cody:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14110682

CODY ~TL4L~'s Companies
Apache County Sheriffs Office
St. Johns, Arizona US
Detention Officer
County Jail/DetentionCandy used to have something on there about Tim how much she loved him and he was taken from her ect., but i didn't see it this time?

[JusticeDawg©]

Wow. Too afraid to say anything more than that. Remind me to drive waaaaayyyyy around St. Johns the next time I'm driving through AZ. Don't think that'll be anytime soon.:ohmy:

I just said the same thing to a friend. I'm afraid it would be catchy!!

That CRAZY Cody guy works at the detention center????? He seems to be some kind of gang member!
SCARY!!!

[ChildsVOICE]

IMO His dad was trapped and was like a sitting duck. Three feet isn't a far distance, neither is ten feet. No skill required.

So an INFANT could do this?

[ChildsVOICE]

I just said the same thing to a friend. I'm afraid it would be catchy!!

That CRAZY Cody guy works at the detention center????? He seems to be some kind of gang member!
SCARY!!!

Yeah. And Avila works there too! and she "interviewed" the child. And now he's locked up for premeditated double homicide?!

Boy! Add that to someone's decision to hire Melnick....I think I found my new career...going to St. Johns to work as a Human Resource Officer! LOL

Like I said on my blog... what are they gonna do next, start charging newborns for killing their mothers if the mama dies giving birth?!

[ChildsVOICE]

Candy used to have something on there about Tim how much she loved him and he was taken from her ect., but i didn't see it this time?

There's still some mention of him.

[ChildsVOICE]

Great post. Above bolded emphasis by me I have been asking this question for weeks. Why wouldn't the Kirks have known Tif s/b notified? Also, a coworker said he was at Wilbur's and IIRC, said he heard the dispatch for emergency to VR's addy so he knew something was up. That timeline needs to be compared to Tif's & Kirks JMOO

LE says they verified the store video time was off 10 mins or so by calling dispatch; the store receipts printed the right time.


Tif also told DN, on 11/10, her kitchen was so dirty. She needed to clean up, etc. Tif added she smelled something in her car and found it was coming from the spoiled food she had bought at 4:43. She then brought the rotten food into the "dirty kitchen". DN didn't know about a 2nd store visit. Tif was able "to find the store receipt."



I don't think anyone's timeline can be ruled out. If an 8yo can allegedly pull off this crime in such a short amount of time, so can any adult JMOO

What was she buying and why? reason for asking.

[ChildsVOICE]

Good point.
This had to be the first shot though, right? The other two (chest shots) were too devastating for him to have stumbled far? (Shock or not).
Head wounds were all three done while he was on the ground?

Refresh my memory. Did the latest version of the autopsy report state TR had 5 wounds? instead of 6?

3-head
2-chest
1-arm through ribs

[JusticeDawg©]

I didn't know Vince, Tim and Tanya all worked for The Salt River Project.

[JusticeDawg©]

What was she buying and why? reason for asking.

Exchanging pants or something for VR she said.

[ChildsVOICE]

Putting the child aside, I vote for the crack head burglar. The fit is pretty easy. It isn't as fun or interesting to talk about, but makes the most sense to me.
Hitmen are definitely out because of the time, place, and weapon(s) used (IMO). The grandparents are definitely out for obvious reasons(IMO).
Just trying to narrow the field.

From personal experience of having a protection order in place and an ex very similar to TR (regretably)...

the "hitman" does not have to be a professional trained by the U. S. government, ect. I hear drug dealers have their own "Enforcers" who carry out the duties of "hitman" in their own style.

From Personal experience, every time someone has come to harrass me or my place was broken into on the behalf of my ex...it was in the middle of the day and I'm on the corner facing the main road AND there was evidence in the broad of daylight they climbed over my back privacy fence and my outside laundry room had cut marks on the door lock where they tried to pick it. On other occasions they climbed over the privacy fence in the broad daylight, and came through my back sliding glass door. I live in a large townhouse community. I have townhouses in every direction! They just know everybody is at work and the daylight hour is the best time to strike.

and regarding the weapon used...druggies are opportunists. They can make the most of any opportunity towards evil.
If the family gun(s) were the weapons used that means someone knew where they were stored. So, start from there.
If ballistics come back saying the family weapon(s) were not the ones used in the crime, then consider the area of the crime. When I first started researching this crime, everywhere I went the resources claimed the St.Johns area is flooded with .22 caliber rifles. They are very common place in St. Johns households. This is a very high concentration of hunting households.

5:00 p.m. may have been the only time these men would be away from other people in as secluded of an area as they were going to get. Maybe, if it was a hit, the home was the only place it could occur. Certainly couldn't do it at work. Don't know enough about the bar.

If it was the step mother and she was out getting an alibi, then 5:00 would have to be the time to strike. The men would be at work any earlier in the day. She would be home any later in the day. And, shopping at that time of day is reasonable.

So much to consider.

[ChildsVOICE]

I didn't know Vince, Tim and Tanya all worked for The Salt River Project.

Yeah. I remember reading that in the reports.

Wonder what the pending court case w/ Vincent was all about?

Wonder what the next hearing/court date was? and what was the expected outcome?

[JusticeDawg©]

Yeah. I remember reading that in the reports.

Odd. :drool:

[JusticeDawg©]

From personal experience of having a protection order in place and an ex very similar to TR (regretably)...

the "hitman" does not have to be a professional trained by the U. S. government, ect. I hear drug dealers have their own "Enforcers" who carry out the duties of "hitman" in their own style.

From Personal experience, every time someone has come to harrass me or my place was broken into on the behalf of my ex...it was in the middle of the day and I'm on the corner facing the main road AND there was evidence in the broad of daylight they climbed over my back privacy fence and my outside laundry room had cut marks on the door lock where they tried to pick it. On other occasions they climbed over the privacy fence in the broad daylight, and came through my back sliding glass door. I live in a large townhouse community. I have townhouses in every direction! They just know everybody is at work and the daylight hour is the best time to strike.

and regarding the weapon used...druggies are opportunists. They can make the most of any opportunity towards evil.
If the family gun(s) were the weapons used that means someone knew where they were stored. So, start from there.
If ballistics come back saying the family weapon(s) were not the ones used in the crime, then consider the area of the crime. When I first started researching this crime, everywhere I went the resources claimed the St.Johns area is flooded with .22 caliber rifles. They are very common place in St. Johns households. This is a very high concentration of hunting households.

5:00 p.m. may have been the only time these men would be away from other people in as secluded of an area as they were going to get. Maybe, if it was a hit, the home was the only place it could occur. Certainly couldn't do it at work. Don't know enough about the bar.

If it was the step mother and she was out getting an alibi, then 5:00 would have to be the time to strike. The men would be at work any earlier in the day. She would be home any later in the day. And, shopping at that time of day is reasonable.

So much to consider.

Could have been road rage. Who knows.

[ChildsVOICE]

good night JD. Thanks for all you do. You are soo helpful in this case. Thanks again!

[JusticeDawg©]

good night JD. Thanks for all you do. You are soo helpful in this case. Thanks again!
Me? You are!
Good Night!!!

See you tommorrow!

[mrrogers]

Eryn's father, friends, etc. - definitely a possible on the list. They know about her child, think he's being abused or some such - and decide to help...


But I still think Tim was the top target. 3 shots to the head - someone wanted him EXTREMELY dead. So my top people would be those with a motive to kill Tim.

if thats true why would they wait 8 years to do it, she could have just kept the baby to begin with.isnt it a good thing that c has family from both sides close to him
im tellin ya all this looks like a super good shooter did this. look where most of the bullets went heart lung head. i dont think no eight year old can shoot like that with a single shot rifle. i got my old single shot out and went throught it all ten times. its awkward, bolt back,load,close bolt,
pull back firing pin,acquire target, fire then all over again and moving to boot i just dont think c could hit like that given the circumstances.

[mrrogers]

Holy crap - do I have this right? They find no .22 bullets, somehow decide that the boy must have used the only .22 bullets in the house, right? And even with two types of bullets, they keep it quiet to keep the boy as the top suspect? Insanity!


Oh, to the new poster here - I've considered the boy's mother as a possible suspect - we've discussed that one too. But having a father with a criminal past doesn't make you a criminal, and Tim looks like the primary target of the crime, was in the middle of an affair and had just proposed. The thought that a man cheating on his wife is murdered just after he proposes to his girlfriend, and it's all a coincidence - that's a pretty big coincidence! And she's the only witness against the person arrested, the only evidence against him? It's not impossible, but the odds are ridiculous!

not wearing seat belts and late on debts is all it is i checked it out this afternoon

[mrrogers]

Candy's myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=61820199

Her Friend Cody:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=14110682

CODY ~TL4L~'s Companies
Apache County Sheriffs Office
St. Johns, Arizona US
Detention Officer
County Jail/Detention
nice ak i dont like the look on his face tho. id give that guy a wide berth or be prepared if ya know what i mean

[mrrogers]

I fax the H$LL out of him. :tonguewag: Everyday, about 10x a day.

what i meant to say is i think the judge is being considerate of the boy.
geez thats alot. i sent the city mgr a email asking why the bloggers with so hostile to people from out of town on wmicentral.com.
posting there ya had to stand up and dig your heels in sometimes.
i feel the judge is going to do the best for the boy that he can. this theory has already been mentioned before. they say they figure hes just waiting for all the evaluations to come which is smart. and will end up declaring him unfit to stand trial.

[mrrogers]

Could you elaborate on the time in red?TIA. I must be misundertstanding what you are saying happened at t Sgt Rod drove Det Neckels to the crime scene.

Chief Melich's story is that DN called him & didn't know what she had on hand. Per DN's statement, she called Chief at request of Sgt Rod b/c they had double homicide.

DN's stmt also said she had to ask Ray, the 911 caller where Sgt Rod was. :confused: (Ray tells her he is in house). When BB questions DN about her arrival on the crime scene & their observations/actions , she says they were "dealing with safety issues."


Did anyone notice that DN notices her husband, Tim coming home while she is interviewing Jarmillos? Did DN get a stmt from him abt his activities?

i think it was leroy romero and crew that took cr to health center cause they first asked leroy if they could interview him agin and leroy said no so they left and come back made false promises leading to the way the interview went down. i never did read about a jones anymore
after reading so much tho i coulda missed it lol !!!!!!!!!!! not that i got blurry eyed at all :laugh::laugh:

[mrrogers]

Could have been road rage. Who knows.

well ive thought about it being a close acquaintence that showed up early who knows in some small towns they brag about not locking doors.
i think cr will be ok but finding out who really did this could be hard
on wmicentral this guy posted the kid will be ok and no one will ever be found who did it. you know how things are in a small town everybody knows whats up.
i had some people come to my house one nite and try to rob me so i got ahold of one of em and beat him up side the head till my arm wore out.
20 years later the maintenance man at the apts i used to manage mentioned it and said hell everyon in the county knows about that .
i guess thats why its so quiet around here although i did get a gun that wouldnt jam like the one i grabbed that nite (semi auto ) had a broken case lodged in it so it wouldnt chamber) so now i have a revolver not much way they can screw up
what pqed my interest is in that post it said they questioned tiffany ? about the divorce she left or was it tanya? candy said she thought the daughters knew of the divorce lots of potential witnesses and barney fife is on duty dont look real good

[mrrogers]

Yeah. I remember reading that in the reports.

Wonder what the pending court case w/ Vincent was all about?

Wonder what the next hearing/court date was? and what was the expected outcome?

where did you find out about a pending court case would like to look it over

[mrrogers]

Ya think? I

What are the laws in AZ and how does one prove misconduct by the state before the state even provides its investigative evidence? TIA.

How does the Gov. of AZ exonerate anyone? Can it be before the defendant is convicted? How does the defense get around the gag order if they are in the Gov's office? I can't hardly wait for you to tell us.



The wheels of justice turn slowly. One doesn't just present misinformation and free their client. This isn't a tv show or the many claims you made about your 'real life'. This is an 8yo child whose real life pointed to an unstable moral compass. The determination of many to assign a 3rd grader some code of ethics that no adult ever provided him is surprising. The sharpshooting skills imagined to be his are simply shocking to me.

The excuses for all the inconsistencies/errors by the adults and professionals that have encountered this child stun me. I don't agree your [faulty IMO] logic that innocence would have already brought about freedom for this child.

All above JMOO

as best as i remember you file a complaint against the attorney with the state bar associaiton then they go thru a procedure

[muska]

Story from Channel 15 - "Woman arrested for murdering toddler released" The police don't feel they have enough to charge this woman even though there seems to be an eye witness to the child's suffocation. So in Arizona, adults are freed when there's a lot but maybe not enough evidence but eight year olds sit in prison. It's just beyond me......he should have been better protected because of his age but instead, he was less.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/story/Valley-woman-arrested-for-toddlers-death-released/11TMC2gT7EmKfaSibwymQA.cspx

[tif]

We don't really know if there were copper coated bullets in the box. It's never been released what was actually in the box and it's not on the evidence report done when they collected it.

Thanks, Crispy.