Jan 12 - Jan. 18

[Jules2]

Where does Meredith work?

Fishers are the ones who brought up Jason's unemployment in their claim. I have no idea if it is true or not but I have seen photos of several vacations so finances apparently are not an issue. No mention in the claim was made of Meredith's employment or whether she is financially able to provide for the shelter, food, clothing and childcare needs of a small child.

Cassidy is in a stable home currently with her father and grandparents.
The idea that she would be better off living with her unmarried aunt will be laughed right out of court. It sure makes me chuckle.

At least Meredith is employed unlike Jason. Taking vacations does not necessarily mean that Jason can afford them. Perhaps his mother footed the bill. You have no idea, nor do I.

I also highly doubt that any court would laugh when it comes to the welfare of a small child. Especially if that child is currently living with a slayer. An employed loving aunt would top an unemployed slayer, don'tcha think?

[Stellagant]

What "homelife" has Jason given Cassidy?

He lives with his mother, bathes with her water, eats her food, breathes her conditioned air.

He has done NOTHING, except hide, shut up and lawyer up.

MOO

Doesn't Cassidy also live, bathe, eat and breathe the air in her home? It's Jason and Cassidy's home, too. No court is going to conclude Cassidy will be better off uprooted and living, bathing, eating and breathing her unmarried aunt's air. Didn't that aunt admit to using drugs on her myspace profile?

[Tia]

Jason has nothing to worry about, I agree.
The 14th Amendment assures fairness to CY and Jason. Fishers have filed a claim they not only will lose, imo, but will also most likely be ordered to pay Jason's legal costs.

Jason has been named Michelle's slayer in a civil suit. Any judge who would just ignore that FACT would definately NOT be looking out for the best interest of the child.

[Stellagant]

I'm sure that's a risk the Fishers are willing to take. You do realize, however, that if they win, Jason will most likely be required to pay their legal costs.

There is no "if." No way the Fishers will win this one imo. There is simply no way the Fishers can provide CY with a better home or even a comparable home to what she currently has with her father.

[5swab5]

(snipped)

BTW, what does the 14th Amendment have to do with the custody issue?


Must be that part about removing someone's property without due process.

Cassidy isn't a real person, with rights of her own in some people's eyes.

Juat like Michelle and Rylan were Jason's to do with as he saw fit. We all know where that led.

MOO

[5swab5]

Doesn't Cassidy also live, bathe, eat and breathe the air in her home? It's Jason and Cassidy's home, too. No court is going to conclude Cassidy will be better off uprooted and living, bathing, eating and breathing her unmarried aunt's air. Didn't that aunt admit to using drugs on her myspace profile?

Exactly my point!

Jason provides NOTHING for Cassidy.

He is raising her to be a mooch, just like himself.

MOO

[Tia]

There is no "if." No way the Fishers will win this one imo. There is simply no way the Fishers can provide CY with a better home or even a comparable home to what she currently has with her father.

I would agree if Jason were not named Michelle's Slayer.

[5swab5]

There is no "if." No way the Fishers will win this one imo. There is simply no way the Fishers can provide CY with a better home or even a comparable home to what she currently has with her father.

Comparable to what?

Pat's little hovel isn't exactly the Taj Mahal.

At least with Linda, Cassidy wouldn't have to wonder when her next move was, to where and for how long.

MOO

[Tia]

Gaining custody from the biological parent is not an easy task. No matter how unfit you or I may feel the parent is, a judge, in most cases (unless there is extreme abuse and negelct-and it can be proven), will leave the minor child in the custody of the bio parent.

However, Jason being declared Michelle's Slayer makes this an extreme case, and it can be proven that the civil court has named him as such.

Also, Detective Spivey's opinion will matter.

The affairs will matter. The contact Jason had with MM after Michelle's death will matter. All of this can be proven.

And I would assume Linda has proof of the other allegations she made in the suit to back her up in court.

She has a great chance IMO.

[Jules2]

I would agree if Jason were not named Michelle's Slayer.

That and the fact that he slapped pictures of her up on Craig's List in order to get dates.

Real stable do-right daddy there for ya.


IMO of course

[Stellagant]

At least Meredith is employed unlike Jason. Taking vacations does not necessarily mean that Jason can afford them. Perhaps his mother footed the bill. You have no idea, nor do I.

I also highly doubt that any court would laugh when it comes to the welfare of a small child. Especially if that child is currently living with a slayer. An employed loving aunt would top an unemployed slayer, don'tcha think?

Nope. The slayer hasn't been convicted of a crime, his parental rights are fully intact and CPS hasn't intervened so they must not think the child is in danger. Courts presume the best case scenario is for a child to live with a parent unless it is proved the child is in danger or it's in her best interest to live elsewhere. Uprooting her to an unmarried aunt's care isn't in CY's best interest and isn't what Michelle wanted.

Jason has parental rights to Cassidy, Meredith does not.

[Tia]

Doesn't Cassidy also live, bathe, eat and breathe the air in her home? It's Jason and Cassidy's home, too. No court is going to conclude Cassidy will be better off uprooted and living, bathing, eating and breathing her unmarried aunt's air. Didn't that aunt admit to using drugs on her myspace profile?

It was "assumed" here that Meredith did drugs by those posters who have done nothing but bash the victim's family. Since its not a fact, merely an assumption, it should not be posted here.

IMO

[Stellagant]

Exactly my point!

Jason provides NOTHING for Cassidy.

He is raising her to be a mooch, just like himself.

MOO

Meredith lives in a home owned by her mother so I guess that makes her a mooch, according to your definition.

[Tia]

Nope. The slayer hasn't been convicted of a crime, his parental rights are fully intact and CPS hasn't intervened so they must not think the child is in danger. Courts presume the best case scenario is for a child to live with a parent unless it is proved the child is in danger or it's in her best interest to live elsewhere. Uprooting her to an unmarried aunt's care isn't in CY's best interest and isn't what Michelle wanted.

Jason has parental rights to Cassidy, Meredith does not.


The civil suit outcome will have to be conisdered by the judge since its in the custody suit.

Maybe you are fine with a child living with their mother's slayer, I'm not.

[Jules2]

Nope. The slayer hasn't been convicted of a crime, his parental rights are fully intact and CPS hasn't intervened so they must not think the child is in danger. Courts presume the best case scenario is for a child to live with a parent unless it is proved the child is in danger or it's in her best interest to live elsewhere. Uprooting her to an unmarried aunt's care isn't in CY's best interest and isn't what Michelle wanted.

Jason has parental rights to Cassidy, Meredith does not.

You have NO idea what Michelle wanted.

And.... you can best bet that as Michelle fought for her life while her killer inflicted numerous blows, she looked in to the very eyes of that monster and knew for certain that she would never want her child to spend one moment with him. Ever.

IMO

[Cardinal]

Nope. The slayer hasn't been convicted of a crime, his parental rights are fully intact and CPS hasn't intervened so they must not think the child is in danger. Courts presume the best case scenario is for a child to live with a parent unless it is proved the child is in danger or it's in her best interest to live elsewhere. Uprooting her to an unmarried aunt's care isn't in CY's best interest and isn't what Michelle wanted.

Jason has parental rights to Cassidy, Meredith does not.

This case isn't about parental rights; it's about custody.

[Cardinal]

Must be that part about removing someone's property without due process.

~snipped~

MOO

That was the inference I drew as well, but I couldn't believe it to be correct.

[Stellagant]

It was "assumed" here that Meredith did drugs by those posters who have done nothing but bash the victim's family. Since its not a fact, merely an assumption, it should not be posted here.

IMO

It's been discussed here previously. Meredith's myspace profile before she set it to private was linked here and on it she admitted to drug use. I'm pretty sure such self-disclosures are of interest to a Judge deciding custody.

[Stellagant]

This case isn't about parental rights; it's about custody.

This has everything to do with parental rights.

[Cardinal]

It's been discussed here previously. Meredith's myspace profile before she set it to private was linked here and on it she admitted to drug use. I'm pretty sure such self-disclosures are of interest to a Judge deciding custody.

I've never seen Meredith's myspace page, and that isn't something I would take anyone's word about. Nor will a judge.


ETA: And I would be really surprised if someone who obviously likes to party as much as Jason does would cast that stone.

[Cardinal]

This has everything to do with parental rights.

No, it doesn't. No action has been filed to deprive Jason of his parental rights.

[Stellagant]

The civil suit outcome will have to be conisdered by the judge since its in the custody suit.

Maybe you are fine with a child living with their mother's slayer, I'm not.

The State of NC doesn't seem to have a problem with CY's living arrangements.

[Tia]

It's been discussed here previously. Meredith's myspace profile before she set it to private was linked here and on it she admitted to drug use. I'm pretty sure such self-disclosures are of interest to a Judge deciding custody.

Her comment was interpreted as drug use by posters here.

[Jules2]

It's been discussed here previously. Meredith's myspace profile before she set it to private was linked here and on it she admitted to drug use. I'm pretty sure such self-disclosures are of interest to a Judge deciding custody.


Wrong. She did not admit to drug use. She mentioned coming down from a high. That high could have been from medication, alcohol or from life itself.


I wonder how high one must be before stripping naked in front of several people at a party.


IMO

[Cardinal]

Wrong. She did not admit to drug use. She mentioned coming down from a high. That high could have been from medication, alcohol or from life itself.


I wonder how high one must be before stripping naked in front of several people at a party.


IMO

After relieving themselves on the living room carpet. So it is said.

[Kat4Eagles]

Nothing has changed.

Jason has still never assisted in the investigation of the brutal murders of Michelle and Rylan. Nor honored their lives...in any way.

Jason is still living off of others and using their monies to further his every want.

He was a slayer, day before yesterday.
He was a slayer yesterday.
He is a slayer today.

MOO

And he will be a slayer tomorrow.

And a free slayer.
:wink:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

A Judge can ask whatever she wants but I doubt she bothers to ask because the answer is so obvious. He's not going to lose custody of his child because he followed his attorney's advice, imo.

Thank you!!

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It's my understanding that anything he did under advice of counsel is offlimits. Besides, the fact that a default judgement was entered will be known by the family court since they will get a copy of the ruling with Linda and Meredith's moving papers. So the court will know, without having to be told, that Jason did not respond.

Will it have any weight in the court's determination of custody? I would think it would not because he was within his rights to not respond. And courts are adverse to using an invocation of rights against someone.


Would it be kind of similiar to when a defendant does not take the stand during his trial, and the Judge tells the Jury not to hold that against him?

Kat

[Stellagant]

I've never seen Meredith's myspace page, and that isn't something I would take anyone's word about. Nor will a judge.


ETA: And I would be really surprised if someone who obviously likes to party as much as Jason does would cast that stone.

You aren't required to take anyone's word about it but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who saw these internet postings.

Internet postings have factored as evidence in several high-profile cases. Of course a Judge would take it seriously. Meredith's custody claim lobbed a stone at Jason's drinking so she opened that door.

[lament79]

I've always wondered what the hell does the DA to convict anyone? There's a lot of evidence here that points to him doing it, but still the DA does nothing.

My question is: In terms of the law what do you have to show the DA to get an arrest?

I don't know the law, but I know some of you do. At least that's the way I'm reading into it.

[Tia]

And a free slayer.
:wink:
Kat

And that makes you happy?

[Cardinal]

Would it be kind of similiar to when a defendant does not take the stand during his trial, and the Judge tells the Jury not to hold that against him?

Kat

No, Kat, that's a criminal proceeding, and there will be no jury for the custody hearing. The judge isn't going to tell her/himself to ignore anything. And Jason didn't plead the 5th - he just plain didn't file a response to the WDS.

[Jules2]

And a free slayer.
:wink:
Kat


For the time being.


IMO

[Cardinal]

I've always wondered what the hell does the DA to convict anyone? There's a lot of evidence here that points to him doing it, but still the DA does nothing.

My question is: In terms of the law what do you have to show the DA to get an arrest?

I don't know the law, but I know some of you do. At least that's the way I'm reading into it.

I don't think anyone here knows what the DA is thinking or doing. I wish we did.

[Stellagant]

Her comment was interpreted as drug use by posters here.

Will most likely be interpreted the same way by a judge.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Would it be kind of similiar to when a defendant does not take the stand during his trial, and the Judge tells the Jury not to hold that against him?

Kat

And yet, when interviewed, jurors say that they would have liked to have heard from the accused, who is now the convicted.

[Cardinal]

You aren't required to take anyone's word about it but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who saw these internet postings.

Internet postings have factored as evidence in several high-profile cases. Of course a Judge would take it seriously. Meredith's custody claim lobbed a stone at Jason's drinking so she opened that door.

Shall I tell you why that doesn't concern me? Thank you, I will.

I have no doubt at all that both Linda and Meredith disclosed every possible negative thing about themselves to their attorneys prior to filing this custody suit. The reason I am so sure? Because they cannot be oblivious to all of the allegations made against them on message boards, and they would know the likelihood of those same allegations being made in court.

And apparently their very good attorneys advised them to proceed anyway.

[Kat4Eagles]

And that makes you happy?


It makes me wonder why they can't arrest the slayer.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

No, Kat, that's a criminal proceeding, and there will be no jury for the custody hearing. The judge isn't going to tell her/himself to ignore anything. And Jason didn't plead the 5th - he just plain didn't file a response to the WDS.

Okay, got it.
Thank you.
:)
Kat

[Stellagant]

I've always wondered what the hell does the DA to convict anyone? There's a lot of evidence here that points to him doing it, but still the DA does nothing.

My question is: In terms of the law what do you have to show the DA to get an arrest?

I don't know the law, but I know some of you do. At least that's the way I'm reading into it.

LE has to provide the DA with enough evidence to persuade either a judge or grand jury there is evidence to support a conviction. All I've seen in this case is an investigator who has reached that conclusion but has been unable to provide real evidence to persuade the DA.

[Tia]

Will most likely be interpreted the same way by a judge.

It will still have to be proven. If Jason wishes to go that route, he will need to prove that at the hearing. A random post on a myspace page from years ago isn't much to go on.

[Kat4Eagles]

And yet, when interviewed, jurors say that they would have liked to have heard from the accused, who is now the convicted.

That is so true!!
I don't know how many times after a verdict, the Jurors would say that they wished the defendant had spoken.
I would have loved to have heard pleas of mercy or denials of guilt from the evil D. Westerfield or S. Peterson.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Shall I tell you why that doesn't concern me? Thank you, I will.

I have no doubt at all that both Linda and Meredith disclosed every possible negative thing about themselves to their attorneys prior to filing this custody suit. The reason I am so sure? Because they cannot be oblivious to all of the allegations made against them on message boards, and they would know the likelihood of those same allegations being made in court.

And apparently their very good attorneys advised them to proceed anyway.


So, we may hear an explanation for the 911 call or the keys?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

And yet, when interviewed, jurors say that they would have liked to have heard from the accused, who is now the convicted.And if those sentiments entered into deliberations, it's jury misconduct.

[Tia]

Shall I tell you why that doesn't concern me? Thank you, I will.

I have no doubt at all that both Linda and Meredith disclosed every possible negative thing about themselves to their attorneys prior to filing this custody suit. The reason I am so sure? Because they cannot be oblivious to all of the allegations made against them on message boards, and they would know the likelihood of those same allegations being made in court.

And apparently their very good attorneys advised them to proceed anyway.


Very good post Cardinal.

I am not concerned for the very same reason. Judging from this board alone, the only negative thing I've seen about the Fisher's is the translation of a post Meredith made years ago on her MySpace page.

Now Jason, well, he has a lot against him. IMO, he has shown very poor character well before Michelle was murdered and continues to show poor character well after.

[Cardinal]

So, we may hear an explanation for the 911 call or the keys?

Kat

If it gets that far, we just may, Kat. Along with an explanation for the 28 phone calls to Pat, the purse printout message, and the missing shirt.

[Stellagant]

Shall I tell you why that doesn't concern me? Thank you, I will.

I have no doubt at all that both Linda and Meredith disclosed every possible negative thing about themselves to their attorneys prior to filing this custody suit. The reason I am so sure? Because they cannot be oblivious to all of the allegations made against them on message boards, and they would know the likelihood of those same allegations being made in court.

And apparently their very good attorneys advised them to proceed anyway.

Their attorneys are going to get paid the same whether the Fishers win or lose.

[Cardinal]

Their attorneys are going to get paid the same whether the Fishers win or lose.

But very good attorneys don't move forward with cases that make them look foolish. Not good for business.

JMO

[Tia]

If it gets that far, we just may, Kat. Along with an explanation for the 28 phone calls to Pat, the purse printout message, and the missing shirt.


Ignoring Linda's calls on the day Michelle was murdered, continued contact with MM after Michelle's murder, refusal to speak with LE, etc.....

[Kat4Eagles]

If it gets that far, we just may, Kat. Along with an explanation for the 28 phone calls to Pat, the purse printout message, and the missing shirt.

But, you can't go looking for a shirt after a year and 1/2 and call it missing.
:)
Kat

[alterEgo©]

Shall I tell you why that doesn't concern me? Thank you, I will.

I have no doubt at all that both Linda and Meredith disclosed every possible negative thing about themselves to their attorneys prior to filing this custody suit. The reason I am so sure? Because they cannot be oblivious to all of the allegations made against them on message boards, and they would know the likelihood of those same allegations being made in court.

And apparently their very good attorneys advised them to proceed anyway.
Why aren't they oblivious to it all? Did they see all these allegations when cruising the net finding 'dirt' on Jason?

[Cardinal]

Ignoring Linda's calls on the day Michelle was murdered, continued contact with MM after Michelle's murder, refusal to speak with LE, etc.....

Do you think this suit will actually get to the deposition stage?

[Cardinal]

Why aren't they oblivious to it all? Did they see all these allegations when cruising the net finding 'dirt' on Jason?

I don't think the Fishers needed to cruise the 'net, AE. Something tells me that Michelle's friends lined up to provide information on Jason.

[Stellagant]

Would it be kind of similiar to when a defendant does not take the stand during his trial, and the Judge tells the Jury not to hold that against him?

Kat

The Judge deciding custody can't hold it against him that he took his lawyer's advice and didn't respond to the wds.

The criteria the Judge must use is what is in the best interest of the child. Losing a wds by default doesn't equate to unfit parenthood nor is there a history of domestic violence. The State has no legal justification to intervene at this point.

[Cardinal]

But, you can't go looking for a shirt after a year and 1/2 and call it missing.
:)
Kat

You can if you also looked for it the night after the murder and didn't find it then either.

[alterEgo©]

It will still have to be proven. If Jason wishes to go that route, he will need to prove that at the hearing. A random post on a myspace page from years ago isn't much to go on.
That goes both ways. Linda and Meredith will have to prove the accusations they made 'upon belief'.

[Cardinal]

The Judge deciding custody can't hold it against him that he took his lawyer's advice and didn't respond to the wds.

The criteria the Judge must use is what is in the best interest of the child. Losing a wds by default doesn't equate to unfit parenthood nor is there a history of domestic violence. The State has no legal justification to intervene at this point.

In accepting the filing, they have already intervened.

[Tia]

Do you think this suit will actually get to the deposition stage?

I don't know. I would doubt it. Family court is so different. Maybe if either Linda or Jason contested the outcome?

[Kat4Eagles]

Their attorneys are going to get paid the same whether the Fishers win or lose.


Well, I think after the murder, everyone around Jason and C took special care to make sure things were the best that they could be under the circumstances.

We have heard some of those things, like picnics, birthdays, and trips to the beach.

We know C attends day care, where you know everyone there is going to be protective of her, and report anything out of the ordinary.

C has not been kept at home isolated, or given the excuse she is being home schooled.

If anything were wrong, at any time, someone would have been called.

Kat

[Stellagant]

But very good attorneys don't move forward with cases that make them look foolish. Not good for business.

JMO

I have no idea if these attorneys are "good attorneys" or not. Hungry attorneys take whatever business they can get.

[alterEgo©]

I don't think the Fishers needed to cruise the 'net, AE. Something tells me that Michelle's friends lined up to provide information on Jason.
When do you think they lined up? Last month? Right after the murder?

[Stellagant]

In accepting the filing, they have already intervened.

There has been no intervention in the parent/child relationship. The State's department of children and family services are not involved.

[alterEgo©]

You can if you also looked for it the night after the murder and didn't find it then either.
That doesn't appear to be documented anywhere.

But looking for it a yr and 1/2 later is documented.

Wonder why they waited so long to look for it at his mom's house.

Wonder if they looked in his hotel room.

[Kat4Eagles]

In accepting the filing, they have already intervened.


It is not going to be easy , no matter how it turns out.

But, the important thing, to me, is that at least Jason responded, if only to get a continuance, and that he knows what is at stake.

And, that he has an attorney for the custody case.

If things were bad between the Youngs and Fishers before, I wouldn't want to watch this in person..

Kat

[Cardinal]

I have no idea if these attorneys are "good attorneys" or not. Hungry attorneys take whatever business they can get.

http://wakefamilylawgroup.com/nc-divorce-lawyers/att_schilawski.html

He's good.

[Stellagant]

That goes both ways. Linda and Meredith will have to prove the accusations they made 'upon belief'.

They also have to prove the child is better off living with Meredith than her current home and that is an impossible hill for them to climb because there is no evidence or history of domestic violence in the household, no evidence the child is in any danger now.

[lament79]

Another question: If Jason has already been proven to be the killer in a civil case how can he have a fair trailer if this ever goes to court?

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't know. I would doubt it. Family court is so different. Maybe if either Linda or Jason contested the outcome?



This is what I would worry about, one side not being able to accept the court's decision, and either having C forcibly removed from Jason or the Fishers not giving up.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

http://wakefamilylawgroup.com/nc-divorce-lawyers/att_schilawski.html

He's good.

So, is Alice Stubbs!!

She was a former Judge!!

Kat

[Stellagant]

http://wakefamilylawgroup.com/nc-divorce-lawyers/att_schilawski.html

He's good.


because his website says he's good? Yeah, rrrrright.

[Cardinal]

That doesn't appear to be documented anywhere.

But looking for it a yr and 1/2 later is documented.

Wonder why they waited so long to look for it at his mom's house.

Wonder if they looked in his hotel room.

It's documented in SWs, AE. The PC for the Brevard/Etowah SWs states that the shirt wasn't found the night after the murder.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf

[alterEgo©]

Hopefully Cassidy has been in the care of other relatives when Jason goes on his benders.I didn't see any accusations of him going on any benders in the past 2 1/2 years in Linda and Meredith's complaint.

[Cardinal]

So, is Alice Stubbs!!

She was a former Judge!!

Kat

Yes, Ms. Stubbs is also a very good attorney. And it will be interesting to see her response.

[Kat4Eagles]

It's documented in SWs, AE. The PC for the Brevard/Etowah SWs states that the shirt wasn't found the night after the murder.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf



But, why wait until 18 months to include it in a search warrant, and

seriously, Card, if it were all that important, Jason would be in jail,

tried, convicted, and the custody hearing would not even be necessary.

Kat

[Jester]

It's been discussed here previously. Meredith's myspace profile before she set it to private was linked here and on it she admitted to drug use. I'm pretty sure such self-disclosures are of interest to a Judge deciding custody.

Not true. We've been over this many, many times. It was stated that she was coming down off a high. You, for unknown reasons, have chosen to interpret that as drug use. Most understood that as a natural high, such as what one experiences after completing an undergraduate degree.

I highly doubt that your personal interpretation of the words "coming down off a high" are of any interest to any Judge in this case.

[Jester]

This has everything to do with parental rights.

Not true. Custody relates to the best interests of the child, not the rights of a parent.

[Cardinal]

because his website says he's good? Yeah, rrrrright.

No, because you don't get named a "super lawyer" if you're lousy.

[Jester]

The State of NC doesn't seem to have a problem with CY's living arrangements.

Not true. The State of NC has not yet expressed an opinion on Cassidy's living arrangements, but will.

[Kat4Eagles]

I didn't see any accusations of him going on any benders in the past 2 1/2 years in Linda and Meredith's complaint.


And, that is what is going to count.

How he has raised C as a single Dad.

I hope he brings tons of pics and stuff to document their relationship.

Kat

[Jester]

Will most likely be interpreted the same way by a judge.

Not true. A Judge will not automatically assume that a high is related to drug use.

[Cardinal]

This is what I would worry about, one side not being able to accept the court's decision, and either having C forcibly removed from Jason or the Fishers not giving up.

Kat

My hope is that the decision will truly be in Cassidy's best interest - that she spend time with BOTH of her families, regardless of who has custody.

[alterEgo©]

It's documented in SWs, AE. The PC for the Brevard/Etowah SWs states that the shirt wasn't found the night after the murder.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/youngwarrants.pdf
C'mon now Card, LE can claim in PC for a warrant over a YEAR after the fact that they looked, but if they don't have a warrant to back up their claim, you know a Def atty will eat them alive. You know if they don't show they actually looked for it within days after they saw the Hotel vid that it open a HUGE door for the defense to explain it's unknown whereabouts.

[Cardinal]

But, why wait until 18 months to include it in a search warrant, and

seriously, Card, if it were all that important, Jason would be in jail,

tried, convicted, and the custody hearing would not even be necessary.

Kat

I think those SWs were more about the shoes, because they had only recently gotten the shoeprint identified. The part about the shirt is in there with all the rest of the PC.

[Jester]

The Judge deciding custody can't hold it against him that he took his lawyer's advice and didn't respond to the wds.

The criteria the Judge must use is what is in the best interest of the child. Losing a wds by default doesn't equate to unfit parenthood nor is there a history of domestic violence. The State has no legal justification to intervene at this point.

Jason's failure to settle Michelle's estate, place a headstone on his wife's grave, and hold a job is an indication that he is unable to cope with his day to day responsibilities.

[Stellagant]

This is what I would worry about, one side not being able to accept the court's decision, and either having C forcibly removed from Jason or the Fishers not giving up.

Kat

Both sides have to play by the rules or face contempt.

[Cardinal]

C'mon now Card, LE can claim in PC for a warrant over a YEAR after the fact that they looked, but if they don't have a warrant to back up their claim, you know a Def atty will eat them alive. You know if they don't show they actually looked for it within days after they saw the Hotel vid that it open a HUGE door for the defense to explain it's unknown whereabouts.

They do have a warrant, AE - the warrant for Jason's SUV.

[alterEgo©]

Not true. Custody relates to the best interests of the child, not the rights of a parent.
Not true.

The constitutionally protected status of a parent has to be stripped before the best interest of the child doctrine kicks in.

[alterEgo©]

They do have a warrant, AE - the warrant for Jason's SUV.They didn't know about the shirt when they got the warrant for the SUV. The luggage is not listed as items seized.

So when did they look?

[alterEgo©]

Jason's failure to settle Michelle's estate, place a headstone on his wife's grave, and hold a job is an indication that he is unable to cope with his day to day responsibilities.
No it isn't.

[Stellagant]

Not true. We've been over this many, many times. It was stated that she was coming down off a high. You, for unknown reasons, have chosen to interpret that as drug use. Most understood that as a natural high, such as what one experiences after completing an undergraduate degree.

I highly doubt that your personal interpretation of the words "coming down off a high" are of any interest to any Judge in this case.

yes, I interpret a "high" as drug use and am confident the judge will come to the same conclusion. Drug use is rarely a secret to family and friends and I doubt there is no other evidence of it. JMO

[Cardinal]

Not true.

The constitutionally protected status of a parent has to be stripped before the best interest of the child doctrine kicks in.

AE, termination of parental rights and custody are 2 different things under the law. BC didn't lose his parental rights, only custody.

[Cardinal]

They didn't know about the shirt when they got the warrant for the SUV. The luggage is not listed as items seized.

So when did they look?

You said yourself that LE kept the SUV until Jan 07. They saw the video the day after the murder.

[Tia]

And, that is what is going to count.

How he has raised C as a single Dad.

I hope he brings tons of pics and stuff to document their relationship.

Kat

According to the Civil Suit, Jason killed Cassidy's mother, but he takes her to the beach and has party's for her............so that makes him a great dad? "Tons of pics and stuff" can't erase the fact he was named the slayer of Cassidy's mother.

[Stellagant]

AE, termination of parental rights and custody are 2 different things under the law. BC didn't lose his parental rights, only custody.

Custody IS a parental issue. BC was believed to be suicidal so the safety of the children triggered an emergency placement. Jason Young isn't in jail nor is he suicidal nor is Cassidy in danger.

[Cardinal]

Kat, I distinctly remember your reaction to the e-mail exchange between Jason and Kim when that SW was published. (I remember because I was so surprised.) You referred to his attitude about explaining his affair with MM to Cassidy as "callous".

You might want to factor that into your opinion of Jason's parenting skills.

JMO

[Tia]

AE, termination of parental rights and custody are 2 different things under the law. BC didn't lose his parental rights, only custody.

Absolutely correct. Jason may lose custody of Cassidy, but not his parental rights, he may even, since that right may still be intact, have to pay child support to the Fisher's!

[Kat4Eagles]

Not true. The State of NC has not yet expressed an opinion on Cassidy's living arrangements, but will.


Then the State of NC should have been called in ages ago, if they were concerned with C's living arrangements.

Kat

[Stellagant]

You said yourself that LE kept the SUV until Jan 07. They saw the video the day after the murder.

LE also knew Jason stopped in Brevard. If they wanted to find the shirt, they should have searched for it in Brevard then, not wait over a year.

[alterEgo©]

If it doesn't, then Jason has nothing to worry about.

BTW, what does the 14th Amendment have to do with the custody issue?

Even when blood relationships are strained, parents retain vital Interest in preventing irretrievable destruction of their family Life; if anything, persons faced with forced dissolution of their Parental rights have more critical need for procedural protections Than do those resisting state intervention into ongoing family Affairs. The Supreme Court noted its 'historical recognition that Freedom of personal choice in matters of family life is a Fundamental liberty interest protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.' Santosky v. Kramer, 102 S.Ct. 1388; 455 U.S. 745, (1982).
State's power to legislate, adjudicate and administer all aspects of Family law (http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/178/RipOff0178281.htm#), including determinations of custodial and visitation Rights, is subject to scrutiny by federal judiciary within reach of Due process and/or equal protection clause of 14th Amendment.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/178/RipOff0178281.htm

[Stellagant]

According to the Civil Suit, Jason killed Cassidy's mother, but he takes her to the beach and has party's for her............so that makes him a great dad? "Tons of pics and stuff" can't erase the fact he was named the slayer of Cassidy's mother.

Tons of pics can certainly refute the claims that Jason has turned over all care of his child to his family.

[alterEgo©]

You said yourself that LE kept the SUV until Jan 07. They saw the video the day after the murder.
Yup.

And they never document looking for the shirt after seeing the vid.

They don't even show confiscating the luggage in the vehicle.

[Cardinal]

LE also knew Jason stopped in Brevard. If they wanted to find the shirt, they should have searched for it in Brevard then, not wait over a year.

Do you think Pat lied to LE when she said Jason didn't leave any belongings there?

[JHP]

LE also knew Jason stopped in Brevard. If they wanted to find the shirt, they should have searched for it in Brevard then, not wait over a year.

Jason Mother said he didn't take anything out of the car or leave anything at her house in Brevard. Is she a liar?

[Stellagant]

Even when blood relationships are strained, parents retain vital Interest in preventing irretrievable destruction of their family Life; if anything, persons faced with forced dissolution of their Parental rights have more critical need for procedural protections Than do those resisting state intervention into ongoing family Affairs. The Supreme Court noted its 'historical recognition that Freedom of personal choice in matters of family life is a Fundamental liberty interest protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.' Santosky v. Kramer, 102 S.Ct. 1388; 455 U.S. 745, (1982).
State's power to legislate, adjudicate and administer all aspects of Family law (http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/178/RipOff0178281.htm#), including determinations of custodial and visitation Rights, is subject to scrutiny by federal judiciary within reach of Due process and/or equal protection clause of 14th Amendment.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/178/RipOff0178281.htm

Absolutely!!! Thanks, AE. :thumbsup:

[JHP]

Great minds think alike? :wink:

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, I distinctly remember your reaction to the e-mail exchange between Jason and Kim when that SW was published. (I remember because I was so surprised.) You referred to his attitude about explaining his affair with MM to Cassidy as "callous".

You might want to factor that into your opinion of Jason's parenting skills.

JMO


Anything I say on the Board, can and will be used against me, :lol:

I don't recall......but, I think callous was the way I described his whole demeanor when trying to brush off his relationship with MM to Kim.

If not, I stand corrected.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Great minds think alike? :wink:

Apparently. :D

If Pat told the truth about Jason not leaving anything in Brevard, why would LE think the shirt was there?

[5swab5]

(snipped) Uprooting her to an unmarried aunt's care isn't in CY's best interest and isn't what Michelle wanted.

Jason has parental rights to Cassidy, Meredith does not.

But living with an unmarried, exhibitionist slayer father is O.K.?

How dare you of all people pretend to speak for Michelle? After reading what you have said about her sister, I expect she would DECK you!

MOO

[Stellagant]

Jason Mother said he didn't take anything out of the car or leave anything at her house in Brevard. Is she a liar?

Not at all. She can only state what she observed. Jason's mother didn't claim Jason was always in her view the entire time he was in Brevard, did she?

[lament79]

Kat, I distinctly remember your reaction to the e-mail exchange between Jason and Kim when that SW was published. (I remember because I was so surprised.) You referred to his attitude about explaining his affair with MM to Cassidy as "callous".

You might want to factor that into your opinion of Jason's parenting skills.

JMO

Where did you read this e-mail at? I would like to see it myself.

[Cardinal]

Anything I say on the Board, can and will be used against me, :lol:

I don't recall......but, I think callous was the way I described his whole demeanor when trying to brush off his relationship with MM to Kim.

If not, I stand corrected.

Kat

Maybe that is how you meant it, Kat. Like I said, I only remember it because I was so surprised you would use that word to describe Jason. :)

But still, don't you think you should factor that in?

[JHP]

Apparently. :D

If Pat told the truth about Jason not leaving anything in Brevard, why would LE think the shirt was there?

Exactly, If she didn't tell the truth wouldn't she be an accomplice?

[Stellagant]

Apparently. :D

If Pat told the truth about Jason not leaving anything in Brevard, why would LE think the shirt was there?

Because by the time LE got around to searching for the shirt, Jason had moved to Brevard.

[Cardinal]

Where did you read this e-mail at? I would like to see it myself.

Here you go:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/11/06/3914018/20081106190923866.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

Where did you read this e-mail at? I would like to see it myself.


It should be on the links thread, if not, go to WRAL com, under documents in this case, and it is in one of the last s/w's..


Kat

[Cardinal]

Not at all. She can only state what she observed. Jason's mother didn't claim Jason was always in her view the entire time he was in Brevard, did she?

When I first started following this case on this board, I remember posts stating that, after hearing of Michelle's death, Jason sat by himself in the yard until the family left for Raleigh.

Wouldn't Pat notice a shirt in her yard?

[Stellagant]

But living with an unmarried, exhibitionist slayer father is O.K.?

How dare you of all people pretend to speak for Michelle? After reading what you have said about her sister, I expect she would DECK you!

MOO

Michelle spoke for herself in her Will.

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe that is how you meant it, Kat. Like I said, I only remember it because I was so surprised you would use that word to describe Jason. :)

But still, don't you think you should factor that in?


When the last s/w's were released, I was far from happy with Jason.

But, I am not sure how I or anyone else here can best determine what is better for C than to be with her Daddy.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Michelle spoke for herself in her Will.

Yes, she did. She spoke to custody of Cassidy in the event Jason predeceased her. Period.

She did not speak to custody in the event Jason survived her and was adjudged to be her slayer.

[5swab5]

And, that is what is going to count.

How he has raised C as a single Dad.

I hope he brings tons of pics and stuff to document their relationship.

Kat

Jason is not raising Cassidy as a single dad. Pat is raising Cassidy and I guess re-raising Jason.

The only thing Jason has raised, is a STINK, by trolling on the internet for dates with Cassidy's picture.

MOO

[Stellagant]

When I first started following this case on this board, I remember posts stating that, after hearing of Michelle's death, Jason sat by himself in the yard until the family left for Raleigh.

Wouldn't Pat notice a shirt in her yard?

Sorry, I never saw any of those posts. I seriously doubt, though, that Jason never entered the house or that Pat had her eye on him the entire time. It's also a moot point because LE waited so long to look for it, there is no way it's evidence of murder.

[Cardinal]

When the last s/w's were released, I was far from happy with Jason.

But, I am not sure how I or anyone else here can best determine what is better for C than to be with her Daddy.

Kat

I'm not doing that, Kat. Despite everything I believe about Michelle's murder, part of me also thinks that Cassidy needs Jason and his family to be a part of her life. But I also believe that she needs her maternal family to be a part of her life.

I will leave it to the court and the professionals to determine what is in Cassidy's best interest regarding custody. But I hope it involves both families.

[Cardinal]

Sorry, I never saw any of those posts. I seriously doubt, though, that Jason never entered the house or that Pat had her eye on him the entire time. It's also a moot point because LE waited so long to look for it, there is no way it's evidence of murder.

In your opinion.

[5swab5]

Tons of pics can certainly refute the claims that Jason has turned over all care of his child to his family.

Gonna be hard to win that argument when Jason and his mom have on matching outfits for the outings.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

AE, termination of parental rights and custody are 2 different things under the law. BC didn't lose his parental rights, only custody.
I didn't say they were.

I said the constitutionally protected status of a parent has to be stripped before 'best interest of the child' doctrine kicks in.

In this case, it has already been done as the WD suit ruling will be used as proof that Jason acted in a manner inconsistent with his constitionally protected status. That will strip him of his protected status and the court will determine who should have custody based on the 'best interest of the child' doctrine.

[Stellagant]

Yes, she did. She spoke to custody of Cassidy in the event Jason predeceased her. Period.

She did not speak to custody in the event Jason survived her and was adjudged to be her slayer.



Jason has been adjudged to have predeceased Michelle. If Michelle wanted her sister to raise her daughter, she would have named her instead of Heather. She didn't do that and a Judge isn't going disrespect her wishes.

[Lindsey]

Very good post Cardinal.

I am not concerned for the very same reason. Judging from this board alone, the only negative thing I've seen about the Fisher's is the translation of a post Meredith made years ago on her MySpace page.

Now Jason, well, he has a lot against him. IMO, he has shown very poor character well before Michelle was murdered and continues to show poor character well after.

Meredith's MySpace page was not from years ago. It was current, in the months, weeks, and days before Michelle's murder and for a time afterwards until she set it to private. There were things she said about herself and comments her friends said to her. There was no 'translation' involved. All very clear. And it was still public for a time after Michelle's murder. And yes, it talked about drinking to excess as well as drug usage and stealing.

I agree it seems Jason has a lot against him if the things said about him are true. But Meredith wasn't squeaky clean either from what I saw, in her own words. Maybe she's changed now. Maybe Jason has changed now. I don't know but I'm tired of reading posts about Meredith's "long ago" posts that has nothing to do with her MySpace page. Two separate websites.

Since I can't link to the public info that I read, now that it's set to Private, I'll just add my IMO, JMO, MOO, etc.

[alterEgo©]

Gonna be hard to win that argument when Jason and his mom have on matching outfits for the outings.

MOO
what in the world does that mean, swabby?

[Cardinal]

Jason has been adjudged to have predeceased Michelle. If Michelle wanted her sister to raise her daughter, she would have named her instead of Heather. She didn't do that and a Judge isn't going disrespect her wishes.

Jason has been adjudged to have predeceased Michelle for purposes of inheritance only. That is not applicable to custody. The terms of Michelle's will do not apply in the custody suit.

[5swab5]

Michelle spoke for herself in her Will.

NO reasonably thinking person would assume that Michelle's wishes for Cassidy at the time the will was drawn up, and her wishes...now that Jason has been declared a slayer would be the same.


MOO

[Cardinal]

I didn't say they were.

I said the constitutionally protected status of a parent has to be stripped before 'best interest of the child' doctrine kicks in.

In this case, it has already been done as the WD suit ruling will be used as proof that Jason acted in a manner inconsistent with his constitionally protected status. That will strip him of his protected status and the court will determine who should have custody based on the 'best interest of the child' doctrine.

Thank you for the explanation, AE. I believe the court will render a judgment that is in Cassidy's best interest. That's what's most important, IMO.

[achristie]

Gaining custody from the biological parent is not an easy task. No matter how unfit you or I may feel the parent is, a judge, in most cases (unless there is extreme abuse and negelct-and it can be proven), will leave the minor child in the custody of the bio parent.

However, Jason being declared Michelle's Slayer makes this an extreme case, and it can be proven that the civil court has named him as such.

Also, Detective Spivey's opinion will matter.

The affairs will matter. The contact Jason had with MM after Michelle's death will matter. All of this can be proven.

And I would assume Linda has proof of the other allegations she made in the suit to back her up in court.

She has a great chance IMO.

I'm hoping they can come up with some kind of joint custody for now. My guess is , and it is only a guess, that the Fishers just want SOME time with the child. They don't want to be denied spending time with her , as has been the case. One would assume after how they have been treated , they wouldn't deny JY's family from seeing her. I could be wrong. I think they have her best interest at heart and that is why they waited this long to pursue things legally. They were forced into this position. Just my take.

Aggie

[Stellagant]

I'm not doing that, Kat. Despite everything I believe about Michelle's murder, part of me also thinks that Cassidy needs Jason and his family to be a part of her life. But I also believe that she needs her maternal family to be a part of her life.

I will leave it to the court and the professionals to determine what is in Cassidy's best interest regarding custody. But I hope it involves both families.

Don't hold your breath that the Court is going to proceed with this case beyond transferring it to another county, where it will most likely be tossed after Jason responds. There is no evidence Cassidy's in danger physically or emotionally so there is no reason for the court to intervene and remove a child from her home and parent.

[Cardinal]

I'm hoping they can come up with some kind of joint custody for now. My guess is , and it is only a guess, that the Fishers just want SOME time with the child. They don't want to be denied spending time with her , as has been the case. One would assume after how they have been treated , they wouldn't deny JY's family from seeing her. I could be wrong. I think they have her best interest at heart and that is why they waited this long to pursue things legally. They were forced into this position. Just my take.

Aggie

Mine too, Aggie.

[Cardinal]

Don't hold your breath that the Court is going to proceed with this case beyond transferring it to another county, where it will most likely be tossed after Jason responds. There is no evidence Cassidy's in danger physically or emotionally so there is no reason for the court to intervene and remove a child from her home and parent.

No offense, but I'll wait for the court to decide, as opposed to taking your word for it.

[Stellagant]

NO reasonably thinking person would assume that Michelle's wishes for Cassidy at the time the will was drawn up, and her wishes...now that Jason has been declared a slayer would be the same.


MOO

A reasonable person, namely a judge, isn't going to conclude that Michelle's preference for Heather as caretaker of Cassidy would change.

[alterEgo©]

Jason is not raising Cassidy as a single dad. Pat is raising Cassidy and I guess re-raising Jason.

The only thing Jason has raised, is a STINK, by trolling on the internet for dates with Cassidy's picture.

MOOReally? Well, too bad that isn't proof that he is an unfit parent or might have a good argument.

[Cardinal]

A reasonable person, namely a judge, isn't going to conclude that Michelle's preference for Heather as caretaker of Cassidy would change.

Under these circumstandes, a judge in a custody suit isn't going to consider Michelle's will at all, IMO.

[lament79]

Here you go:

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/11/06/3914018/20081106190923866.pdf

Thanks. Very distressing to read all of that stuff. :sad:

He doesn't sound like the person I used to know at all.

[achristie]

And a free slayer.
:wink:
Kat

:confused: Are we to assume that's okay with you?

[5swab5]

Don't hold your breath that the Court is going to proceed with this case beyond transferring it to another county, where it will most likely be tossed after Jason responds. There is no evidence Cassidy's in danger physically or emotionally so there is no reason for the court to intervene and remove a child from her home and parent.

Your Opinion ONLY.

If you don't mind, I think I will wait for informed minds to make a decision.

MOO

[5swab5]

A reasonable person, namely a judge, isn't going to conclude that Michelle's preference for Heather as caretaker of Cassidy would change.

SNooooRT!

MOO

[Cardinal]

Thanks. Very distressing to read all of that stuff. :sad:

He doesn't sound like the person I used to know at all.

That particular warrant was very distressing to everyone, regardless of their position in this case, I think.

If you want to read the others, they're here:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/3401559/


Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

[Leanne Weich]

I'm hoping they can come up with some kind of joint custody for now. My guess is , and it is only a guess, that the Fishers just want SOME time with the child. They don't want to be denied spending time with her , as has been the case. One would assume after how they have been treated , they wouldn't deny JY's family from seeing her. I could be wrong. I think they have her best interest at heart and that is why they waited this long to pursue things legally. They were forced into this position. Just my take.

Aggie

I haven't referred back to Linda's filing for some time but, IIRC, she alleged something to the effect that she would be better able to arrange visitation for Cassidy with Jason's family.

[Stellagant]

I'm hoping they can come up with some kind of joint custody for now. My guess is , and it is only a guess, that the Fishers just want SOME time with the child. They don't want to be denied spending time with her , as has been the case. One would assume after how they have been treated , they wouldn't deny JY's family from seeing her. I could be wrong. I think they have her best interest at heart and that is why they waited this long to pursue things legally. They were forced into this position. Just my take.

Aggie

The Fishers aren't asking for joint custody, they are asking for temporary custody, i.e., remove her temporarily but entirely from her home and parent. The Court isn't going to decide it's in the child's best interest to live in two locations and spend half-time away from her only parent. No way.

Grandparent visitation is not something this Court is going to address.

[Jester]

No it isn't.

What reasons would you give for Jason failing to place a headstone, failing to process the life insurance policy, and failing to hold a job. My opinion is that he has an inability to cope with those normal responsibilities. What is your opinion?

[Jester]

yes, I interpret a "high" as drug use and am confident the judge will come to the same conclusion. Drug use is rarely a secret to family and friends and I doubt there is no other evidence of it. JMO

People that interpret the word high exclusively in association with drug use may be revealing more about themselves than they should.

[achristie]

Well, I think after the murder, everyone around Jason and C took special care to make sure things were the best that they could be under the circumstances.

We have heard some of those things, like picnics, birthdays, and trips to the beach.

We know C attends day care, where you know everyone there is going to be protective of her, and report anything out of the ordinary.

C has not been kept at home isolated, or given the excuse she is being home schooled.

If anything were wrong, at any time, someone would have been called.

Kat

I think that happened early on in this case. The child said something and the day care people called LE. The family complained because the media showed up, too. I remember it well. Do you? The media never spoke of it, but I would love to know what LE heard...... and the teachers, too. It's a shame that a young person's pure words and account are possibly DISCOUNTED.

MOO Aggie

[Jester]

Then the State of NC should have been called in ages ago, if they were concerned with C's living arrangements.

Kat

Yes, we know that you think everything should have been done a long time ago.

[Stellagant]

Meredith's MySpace page was not from years ago. It was current, in the months, weeks, and days before Michelle's murder and for a time afterwards until she set it to private. There were things she said about herself and comments her friends said to her. There was no 'translation' involved. All very clear. And it was still public for a time after Michelle's murder. And yes, it talked about drinking to excess as well as drug usage and stealing.

I agree it seems Jason has a lot against him if the things said about him are true. But Meredith wasn't squeaky clean either from what I saw, in her own words. Maybe she's changed now. Maybe Jason has changed now. I don't know but I'm tired of reading posts about Meredith's "long ago" posts that has nothing to do with her MySpace page. Two separate websites.

Since I can't link to the public info that I read, now that it's set to Private, I'll just add my IMO, JMO, MOO, etc.

ITA. Meredith may have changed but that doesn't morph her into a quality parent, better suited to parent someone else's child rather than the child's own father. Fishers claim doesn't offer any evidence Jason has ever at any time appeared an unfit parent nor does it offer incidents of physical or emotional abuse to the child. There's no justification to remove the child from his care or to order he undergo a psych evaluation.

If Jason were arrested today, I doubt a Judge would remove CY from her home and give sole custody to Meredith. He might approve visitation but the child's custody would keep her right where she's been living. JMO

[Stellagant]

Did Jason admit he got drunk and showed his pee pee to the crowd of people at the party? How would you know what her myspace page says it's set to private to keep people like you away.

I saw the myspace prior to it being set to private. It was linked here.

[Stellagant]

I think that happened early on in this case. The child said something and the day care people called LE. The family complained because the media showed up, too. I remember it well. Do you? The media never spoke of it, but I would love to know what LE heard...... and the teachers, too. It's a shame that a young person's pure words and account are possibly DISCOUNTED.

MOO Aggie

Early in the case the media showed up at the child's daycare and the daycare and family phoned LE. The child is a crime victim. The media were sent away and rightfully so. Or do you believe a child/victim should be shadowed by the news media?

[Stellagant]

Ok i will bite on that one but how about the other part of my question do you have the answer to that?

The other part of your question was crude and didn't deserve a response.

[achristie]

They also have to prove the child is better off living with Meredith than her current home and that is an impossible hill for them to climb because there is no evidence or history of domestic violence in the household, no evidence the child is in any danger now.


Other than the fact that her father is the slayer of her mother?
And that slayer left her alone in the house with her slain mother?

[Stellagant]

Other than the fact that her father is the slayer of her mother?
And that slayer left her alone in the house with her slain mother?

Neither proves the child is better off being removed from her home and sent to live with an unmarried aunt.

[daddydidit]

Thanks. Very distressing to read all of that stuff. :sad:

He doesn't sound like the person I used to know at all.

If you think that's distressing, then don't read the autopsy report.

[achristie]

And, that is what is going to count.

How he has raised C as a single Dad.

I hope he brings tons of pics and stuff to document their relationship.

Kat

Well if he can't find them perhaps he could obtain them from the women he sent them to while trolling.:laugh:

MOO Aggie

[achristie]

When I first started following this case on this board, I remember posts stating that, after hearing of Michelle's death, Jason sat by himself in the yard until the family left for Raleigh.

Wouldn't Pat notice a shirt in her yard?

Really? I never heard that. He sat in the yard? Wow. I thought I had heard every little nuance in this case. This is new to me. Interesting.

[Stellagant]

Do you happen to have a link stateing where the aunt is fileing for sole custody of the child? Because the last I read LF was also fileing with her. I hate to bust your bubble but there's alot of unmarried people who do fine raiseing children alone and I think the sister would do just fine.

It is unlikely the judge will agree with you. The aunt and grandmother have filed for temporary custody of the child. According to their claim, the aunt and grandmother don't live together or even in the same state. I don't know any child who is better off removed from the home she's known for over two years and sent to live with an unmarried relative who has never been a parent. Ain't gonna happen, imo.

[achristie]

Meredith's MySpace page was not from years ago. It was current, in the months, weeks, and days before Michelle's murder and for a time afterwards until she set it to private. There were things she said about herself and comments her friends said to her. There was no 'translation' involved. All very clear. And it was still public for a time after Michelle's murder. And yes, it talked about drinking to excess as well as drug usage and stealing.

I agree it seems Jason has a lot against him if the things said about him are true. But Meredith wasn't squeaky clean either from what I saw, in her own words. Maybe she's changed now. Maybe Jason has changed now. I don't know but I'm tired of reading posts about Meredith's "long ago" posts that has nothing to do with her MySpace page. Two separate websites.

Since I can't link to the public info that I read, now that it's set to Private, I'll just add my IMO, JMO, MOO, etc.

I'm tired of reading indictments about the innocent sister who was sent there to retrieve a fax for the "slayer". Her only involvement. How come you haven't scrutinized the friend who last saw her alive? Does she get a pass because you haven't found her MySpace Page and dissected her words? Just wondering.

MOO Aggie

[achristie]

Early in the case the media showed up at the child's daycare and the daycare and family phoned LE. The child is a crime victim. The media were sent away and rightfully so. Or do you believe a child/victim should be shadowed by the news media?


The media showed up there because the day care people called LE about something the child said. That's why they were there. What did the child say?

MOO Aggie

[achristie]

Neither proves the child is better off being removed from her home and sent to live with an unmarried aunt.

Surely you jest.:biggrinjester:

[Stellagant]

The media showed up there because the day care people called LE about something the child said. That's why they were there. What did the child say?

MOO Aggie

You're the one claiming the child said something and that's why LE were called. Never happened, imo.

[alterEgo©]

The media showed up there because the day care people called LE about something the child said. That's why they were there. What did the child say?

MOO AggieWhen did this supposedly happen?

What did the media who showed up report? Is there a link?

Why wasn't this bombshell included in Linda and Meredith's complaint?

[achristie]

When did this supposedly happen?

What did the media who showed up report? Is there a link?

Why wasn't this bombshell included in Linda and Meredith's complaint?

It was posted way back when by a JY insider.
The media never reported on it.
I don't have a link as the old posts disappeared.
I can't answer for LF and MF.
It wasn't in Brevard as I recall.
It was in Raleigh just days after the murder.

MOO Aggie

[jerry50]

It was posted way back when by a JY insider.
The media never reported on it.
I don't have a link as the old posts disappeared.
I can't answer for LF and MF.
It wasn't in Brevard as I recall.
It was in Raleigh just days after the murder.

MOO Aggie

I remember that also and that it was when they were still in Raleigh.

As for not including it in the custody suit I am sure that there is a ton of other allegations that were not listed but will be admitted as evidence.

[jerry50]

It is unlikely the judge will agree with you. The aunt and grandmother have filed for temporary custody of the child. According to their claim, the aunt and grandmother don't live together or even in the same state. I don't know any child who is better off removed from the home she's known for over two years and sent to live with an unmarried relative who has never been a parent. Ain't gonna happen, imo.

How do you explain the Cooper children?

[alterEgo©]

It was posted way back when by a JY insider.
The media never reported on it.
I don't have a link as the old posts disappeared.
I can't answer for LF and MF.
It wasn't in Brevard as I recall.
It was in Raleigh just days after the murder.

MOO Aggie
Oh so it was just another board rumor.

Thanks.

[alterEgo©]

How do you explain the Cooper children?
with the phrase 'attempted suicide'

[jerry50]

And, that is what is going to count.

How he has raised C as a single Dad.

I hope he brings tons of pics and stuff to document their relationship.

Kat

Well I think the autopsy photos and photos of Cassidy's little footprints made by her Mother's congealed blood should trump whatever he has to offer.

[Stellagant]

How do you explain the Cooper children?

what is there to explain to you? An order for emergency temporary custody was ordered because Brad Cooper was suicidal and had a history of arguing with his wife in front of the children. That family sure didn't wait over two years to secure the children's safety.

[achristie]

Oh so it was just another board rumor.

Thanks.

Yes. Your welcome.:smile:

[lament79]

Could you tell us what you think the evidence is?

I was referring to the circumstantial stuff. That does count doesn't it in a court of law? If I'm wrong tell me because I thought any kind of evidence would be used.

But that's all I was referring too.

[alterEgo©]

Well I think the autopsy photos and photos of Cassidy's little footprints made by her Mother's congealed blood should trump whatever he has to offer.
The murder will not be a triable issue so your gory photos won't be needed.

Jason's fittnes to be a parent and Meredith and Linda's fitness to take custody of Cassidy will be the triable issues.

[Jules2]

Probably equal to striping naked in a pool at a condo. Does one have to be high to do that?


No, just a poor role model for their child.


IMO

[alterEgo©]

What reasons would you give for Jason failing to place a headstone, failing to process the life insurance policy, and failing to hold a job. My opinion is that he has an inability to cope with those normal responsibilities. What is your opinion?Since you don't know why he didn't place a head stone, you can't just assume it was because he couldn't cope with the responsibility.

Ditto with the LI proceeds. If the policy wasn't collected on advice of counsel, then it's not a matter of being able to cope or of being responsible.

Lots of folks can't find work. Do they also have an inability to cope with this normal responsibility?

[alterEgo©]

No, just a poor role model for their child.


IMOWhat has he done in the last 2 years that shows him to be a poor role model?

[Stellagant]

Doesn't all her complaints stem from things that was in the past when MY was alive? Was MY a part of these parties? I have heard of such parties but never knew any one that ever attended one. I think only very close friends are invited to them.

Such parties aren't illegal and won't be of interest to the judge because the activity took place in a private home and CY wasn't present. Stripping naked in a public place such as neighborhood pool, that's different because of the potential for children to witness it. A judge isn't going to place a child in the custody of someone who engages in indecent activity, imo.

[Tia]

Such parties aren't illegal and won't be of interest to the judge because the activity took place in a private home and CY wasn't present. Stripping naked in a public place such as neighborhood pool, that's different because of the potential for children to witness it. A judge isn't going to place a child in the custody of someone who engages in indecent activity, imo.


So you are saying that Meredith's MySpace post from ages ago, should have no bearing on the case then? I mean if you are so willing to overlook all of this with Jason.........

[Stellagant]

So you are saying that Meredith's MySpace post from ages ago, should have no bearing on the case then? I mean if you are so willing to overlook all of this with Jason.........

Drug use is illegal. I don't know of any judge anywhere who will remove a child from her home and then place her in the care of someone who has admitted to drug use.

[5swab5]

Since you don't know why he didn't place a head stone, you can't just assume it was because he couldn't cope with the responsibility.

Ditto with the LI proceeds. If the policy wasn't collected on advice of counsel, then it's not a matter of being able to cope or of being responsible.

Lots of folks can't find work. Do they also have an inability to cope with this normal responsibility?

The fact remains that Jason left a million dollar life insurance policy lying on the table.

If he did it all by himself, he knew that he couldn't risk the deposition.

If he did it on advice of counsel, that just says to me that his attorney knows that he is guilty too.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

The fact remains that Jason left a million dollar life insurance policy lying on the table.

If he did it all by himself, he knew that he couldn't risk the deposition.

If he did it on advice of counsel, that just says to me that his attorney knows that he is guilty too.

MOOThe fact remains that not collecting LI proceeds is not an indication that he has an inabilty to cope with responsiblities.

Defense atty's routinely advise their clients to remain silent. I know it's hard to fathom, but it's true.

[5swab5]

The fact remains that not collecting LI proceeds is not an indication that he has an inabilty to cope with responsiblities.

(snipped)

I disagree.

It is also an indication that he is either ST00PID or Guilty. Stevie Wonder can see that.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

What makes you so sure she's in such a stable home right now? Do you have proof of this? No and neither do I.
Pretty brazen to intimate that neither Jason's sister or mom have a stable home.

[JHP]

Luckily we don't have to speculate about it much longer. Professionals will look at the big picture and make an unbiased(I hope) determination of what is best for Cassidy.

And REALLY isn't that what is most important???
Although I do want the person who killed her mother to be punished for that too!

[Cardinal]

Pretty brazen to intimate that neither Jason's sister or mom have a stable home.

I'd say there have been some pretty brazen intimations on both sides of the fence, AE.

The truth is, none of us here know what goes on in the Youngs' homes or the Fishers' homes. But I believe the court will establish whether or not those homes and the people in them are stable.

And anything posted here is irrelevant to that process.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Luckily we don't have to speculate about it much longer. Professionals will look at the big picture and make an unbiased(I hope) determination of what is best for Cassidy.

And REALLY isn't that what is most important???
Although I do want the person who killed her mother to be punished for that too!

This is getting to be a habit, JHP. LOL

Obviously, I agree!

[JHP]

This is getting to be a habit, JHP. LOL

Obviously, I agree!

Yes, Cardinal it is. I've been trying to give it up:biggrin:. So much for that resolution.

I'm just glad we won't have to wait much longer. The legal minds I've bugged about this think the Judge will keep the case in Wake co. But... they're not in NC. So we will just have to see.

[Cardinal]

Yes, Cardinal it is. I've been trying to give it up:biggrin:. So much for that resolution.

I'm just glad we won't have to wait much longer. The legal minds I've bugged about this think the Judge will keep the case in Wake co. But... they're not in NC. So we will just have to see.

I'm trying to figure out why Jason would want a change of venue in the first place. His attorney is also in Wake County, and attorneys bill their same hourly rate for travel. That means another 8 or so billable hours for an appearance in Henderson/Transylvania County.

Not to mention the fact that "bringing it home" is going to draw a lot more local attention, and I can't believe Pat would want all of those allegations explored in her home territory.

JMO

[JHP]

Perhaps they think that bringing it home will provide a more sympathetic Judge? I think it was unusual they didn't just pick one Co. to request the change, but hey maybe we'll get to know what the thinking was.
I noticed Linda's attorney was also very skilled in mediation. He has quite a bit of experience also.
Jason's attorney is fairly new. But it is an opportunity for her. If she can win for both the Coopers grandparents and then go on to win for Jason it will be quite a bee in her bonnet.

JMO

[alterEgo©]

You're right Card - it's been brazen on both sides.

I wonder how much mud Jason is going to lob back at Meredith and Linda.

[alterEgo©]

I'm trying to figure out why Jason would want a change of venue in the first place. His attorney is also in Wake County, and attorneys bill their same hourly rate for travel. That means another 8 or so billable hours for an appearance in Henderson/Transylvania County.

Not to mention the fact that "bringing it home" is going to draw a lot more local attention, and I can't believe Pat would want all of those allegations explored in her home territory.

JMOConvience of forum for Jason's witnesses and defense against the complaint would be my guess.

[Cardinal]

You're right Card - it's been brazen on both sides.

I wonder how much mud Jason is going to lob back at Meredith and Linda.

I can't see anything constructive about a mud-slinging fest, AE. It certainly won't benefit Cassidy, IMO.

JHP is right about Linda's attorney being skilled at mediation. Hopefully, it will be handled that way.


ETA: But even with mediation, there will be depositions.

[kingbuff]

You're right Card - it's been brazen on both sides.

I wonder how much mud Jason is going to lob back at Meredith and Linda.

Makes me wonder what Spivey used to force the Fishers to get involved in the civil law suits. The Fishers know about the mud balls heading their way. Does Spivey? Maybe, but they're not aimed at him so I doubt that he cares. Spivey's ambition is to get Jason on record saying anything the DA can use against him.

The Fishers think Spivey is their friend? They oughta check with MM about that.

[Cardinal]

Convience of forum for Jason's witnesses and defense against the complaint would be my guess.

Pretty generous of Pat to pay an additional $3,000 or so per appearance not to inconvenience witnesses.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Makes me wonder what Spivey used to force the Fishers to get involved in the civil law suits. The Fishers know about the mud balls heading their way. Does Spivey? Maybe, but they're not aimed at him so I doubt that he cares. Spivey's ambition is to get Jason on record saying anything the DA can use against him.

The Fishers think Spivey is their friend? They oughta check with MM about that.

Can you document your allegation against Det Spivey?

[alterEgo©]

I can't see anything constructive about a mud-slinging fest, AE. It certainly won't benefit Cassidy, IMO.

JHP is right about Linda's attorney being skilled at mediation. Hopefully, it will be handled that way.


ETA: But even with mediation, there will be depositions.I didn't say it would be constructive, just seems like most custody cases are mud baths.

From what I have read, attys on both sides are skilled at mediation.

[alterEgo©]

Pretty generous of Pat to pay an additional $3,000 or so per appearance not to inconvenience witnesses.

JMOHuh?:confused:

[Cardinal]

AE, if both attorneys are skilled at mediation, there's all the more reason to hope the suit will be settled that way.

Because I agree with the breeze that Cassidy is the loser in this. She's already lost her mother and has had only minimal contact with her maternal family. I'd hate to see her lose any more.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Huh?:confused:

Attorneys of Ms. Stubbs' caliber typically bill about $350 an hour. That rate for 8-9 hours travel time to Henderson/Transylvania County is about $3,000. Why would Pat want to pay an additional $3,000 or so per appearance?

[alterEgo©]

My point was that the child has been moved several times in the past 2 years and I wouldn't call that stable. Like I ALSO said none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors now do we?
Several times? How many constitutes 'several' in your world? Two? Three? Four?

Do you happen to know how many moves and in what time frame those moves are made constitute an unstable home in the eyes of the court? I can't find anything specific but I was under the impression that the number of moves didn't matter as much as where the moves landed the family. For instance, moving from hotel to hotel or from one weekly or monthly rental unit to another would be considered an unstable home environment.

[alterEgo©]

Attorneys of Ms. Stutts' caliber typically bill about $350 an hour. That rate for 8-9 hours travel time to Henderson/Transylvania County is about $3,000. Why would Pat want to pay an additional $3,000 or so per appearance?
I was unaware the atty pymt arrangements were public record, specifically the part about Pat paying the atty.

Is there a link? That would be interesting reading.

[kingbuff]

Can you document your allegation against Det Spivey?

I made no allegation against Spivey.

[Cardinal]

I was unaware the atty pymt arrangements were public record, specifically the part about Pat paying the atty.

Is there a link? That would be interesting reading.

No link, AE. The hourly rate is based upon my personal experience with what a partner in a firm of that caliber charges.

And since Jason is reportedly unemployed and is now barred from accessing any of the resources of Michelle's estate, the part about Pat paying the attorney is common sense, IMO.

[kingbuff]

I was unaware the atty pymt arrangements were public record, specifically the part about Pat paying the atty.

Is there a link? That would be interesting reading.

In a civil case, is it customary for the judge to order the loser to pay all legal fees? How about in a frivolous action?

[Cardinal]

I made no allegation against Spivey.

Yes, you did. You alleged that he "...force[d] the Fishers to get involved in the civil law suits."

[Jester]

Since you don't know why he didn't place a head stone, you can't just assume it was because he couldn't cope with the responsibility.

Ditto with the LI proceeds. If the policy wasn't collected on advice of counsel, then it's not a matter of being able to cope or of being responsible.

Lots of folks can't find work. Do they also have an inability to cope with this normal responsibility?

I can't see any reason for a man neglecting to place a headstone on his wife's grave. There is no reason, except the possibility that the husband couldn't cope. Maybe he didn't care.

I also can't think of a good reason why a lawyer would advise a client not to settle his deceased wife's estate.

[Cardinal]

In a civil case, is it customary for the judge to order the loser to pay all legal fees? How about in a frivolous action?

I doubt Ms. Stubbs took the case on a contingency basis. Someone is going to have to pay her in the meantime.

JMO

[Jester]

Makes me wonder what Spivey used to force the Fishers to get involved in the civil law suits. The Fishers know about the mud balls heading their way. Does Spivey? Maybe, but they're not aimed at him so I doubt that he cares. Spivey's ambition is to get Jason on record saying anything the DA can use against him.

The Fishers think Spivey is their friend? They oughta check with MM about that.

Did Michelle Money, one of the women sleeping with the slayer, ever think the investigator was her friend? That would have been a foolish assumption. Are you suggesting that she thought the investigator would keep her trysts with the slayer after the murder a secret?

[5swab5]

In a civil case, is it customary for the judge to order the loser to pay all legal fees? How about in a frivolous action?

There is nothing frivolous about trying to get one's grandchild away from the clutches of a slayer and his enabling family.

MOO

[alterEgo©]

No link, AE. The hourly rate is based upon my personal experience with what a partner in a firm of that caliber charges.

And since Jason is reportedly unemployed and is now barred from accessing any of the resources of Michelle's estate, the part about Pat paying the attorney is common sense, IMO.Seems more like speculation than common sense.

Your remark just seemed snarky - I guess I took it the wrong way. Sorry.

[Cardinal]

Seems more like speculation than common sense.

Your remark just seemed snarky - I guess I took it the wrong way. Sorry.

No problem, AE. And I meant nothing snarky. Speculation or common sense, either way I can't imagine that Jason has the funds to pay a partner at Tharrington Smith to represent him in this custody suit, so I believe his mother is footing the bill.

JMO

[alterEgo©]

There is nothing frivolous about trying to get one's grandchild away from the clutches of a slayer and his enabling family.

MOOSo prior to the WD suit there was no reason to get Cassidy away from her father and his family?

[Jester]

So prior to the WD suit there was no reason to get Cassidy away from her father and his family?

Prior to the wrongful death suit, there was no confirmed reason to have concerns about Cassidy living with a slayer, as he had not yet been named a slayer.

[alterEgo©]

No problem, AE. And I meant nothing snarky. Speculation or common sense, either way I can't imagine that Jason has the funds to pay a partner at Tharrington Smith to represent him in this custody suit, so I believe his mother is footing the bill.

JMO

Well, if he's got no money, why is Linda suing him for punitive and compensatory damages in excess of $10k. And then wanting him to foot the bill for her atty fees in the custody suit.

I just don't see why Jason getting any help from his family is viewed as such a negative thing. Isn't that what families are for? Wouldn't any parent lend any help they could to their child and grandchild?

[kingbuff]

I can't see any reason for a man neglecting to place a headstone on his wife's grave. There is no reason, except the possibility that the husband couldn't cope. Maybe he didn't care.

I also can't think of a good reason why a lawyer would advise a client not to settle his deceased wife's estate.

And the Fishers didn't care? Maybe there is a reason.

What needed to be settled? Everything was left to Jason. Nothing to probate in that will.

[alterEgo©]

Prior to the wrongful death suit, there was no confirmed reason to have concerns about Cassidy living with a slayer, as he had not yet been named a slayer.Well then that explains perfectly why Linda waited until a day (or two) before the statute of limitations tolled to file the WDS suit.

[Jester]

Drug use is illegal. I don't know of any judge anywhere who will remove a child from her home and then place her in the care of someone who has admitted to drug use.

You continue to claim that Meredith can be associated with drug use, yet your source, an unavailable personal page from several years ago, contained no information, statements, or claims, about drug use. You know this. Your claims are based on your assumption that the word high can only be interpreted as drug related. That is an error of interpretation and, as previously mentioned, reveals more about you than Meredith.

I suggest that you either prove your allegations with hard evidence, or discontinue to slander the family of a murder victim.

[kingbuff]

Did Michelle Money, one of the women sleeping with the slayer, ever think the investigator was her friend? That would have been a foolish assumption. Are you suggesting that she thought the investigator would keep her trysts with the slayer after the murder a secret?

You think she thought Spivey would put the info in a search warrant to be released to the media? My opinion is that was not necessary. Yes, I think the Fishers should be wary of their 'friend', Spivey.

[Cardinal]

Well, if he's got no money, why is Linda suing him for punitive and compensatory damages in excess of $10k. And then wanting him to foot the bill for her atty fees in the custody suit.

I just don't see why Jason getting any help from his family is viewed as such a negative thing. Isn't that what families are for? Wouldn't any parent lend any help they could to their child and grandchild?

I have never, at any time, said anything negative about Jason getting help from his family. I agree, that is what families are for. In fact, if Michelle had died of natural causes, I doubt anyone would say anything negative about Jason getting help from his family.

As for Linda's claim for punitive and compensatory damages and payment of attorney's fees, those are typical claims in a WDS. And although Jason may currently have no funds with which to pay them, neither did Michael Peterson when Kathleen's daughter made the same claim. But since there is always the potential of future earnings, the claim can be enforced at a later date.

JMO

[Jester]

And the Fishers didn't care? Maybe there is a reason.

What needed to be settled? Everything was left to Jason. Nothing to probate in that will.

It is the husband's responsibility to place a headstone on his deceased wife's grave. After waiting two years for Jason to act, the Fishers cared enough to bypass the husband and place the headstone. It appears that Jason was unable to cope with this responsibility.

Jason neglected to process the life insurance policy. What was the reason for that? It appears that he was unable to cope with the responsibilities of settling his wife's estate, but maybe there is another reason. Any thoughts on what that may have been?

[kingbuff]

You continue to claim that Meredith can be associated with drug use, yet your source, an unavailable personal page from several years ago, contained no information, statements, or claims, about drug use. You know this. Your claims are based on your assumption that the word high can only be interpreted as drug related. That is an error of interpretation and, as previously mentioned, reveals more about you than Meredith.

I suggest that you either prove your allegations with hard evidence, or discontinue to slander the family of a murder victim.

What makes you think that personal page is unavailable?

Your allegations and slander of Michelle's husband is supported with hard evidence? Trot it out, or discontinue your slander.

[Jester]

You think she thought Spivey would put the info in a search warrant to be released to the media? My opinion is that was not necessary. Yes, I think the Fishers should be wary of their 'friend', Spivey.

I think MM should have been well aware of the fact that any information acquired in a murder investigation could be included in search warrants. In light of the fact that she engaged in trysts with Jason both before and after Michelle was murdered, one does have to question both Jason and MM's knowledge, and involvement, in the murder (motive). Her continued relationship with Jason is crucial in demonstrating her, and Jason's, lack of moral judgment, and disrespect for the sanctity of marriage.

It would appear that she is immature if she thought the police would keep her trysts a secret.

[alterEgo©]

I have never, at any time, said anything negative about Jason getting help from his family. snippedJMOI didn't mean to imply you did. :smile:

[Jester]

What makes you think that personal page is unavailable?

Your allegations and slander of Michelle's husband is supported with hard evidence? Trot it out, or discontinue your slander.

By all means, if the personal page from several years ago is available, please post it, as the newest poster (stallagant???) is incorrect in claiming that drug use is mentioned on the page.

What slander? If you are suggesting that my conclusions that Jason's inability to place a headstone, process a life insurance policy, and hold a job imply he is unable to cope are slander, you are mistaken. That is the only logical conclusion available to me.

If you have other insights, please share them.

[kingbuff]

It is the husband's responsibility to place a headstone on his deceased wife's grave. After waiting two years for Jason to act, the Fishers cared enough to bypass the husband and place the headstone. It appears that Jason was unable to cope with this responsibility.

Jason neglected to process the life insurance policy. What was the reason for that? It appears that he was unable to cope with the responsibilities of settling his wife's estate, but maybe there is another reason. Any thoughts on what that may have been?

You mean other than not needing the money, not wanting the money, knowing it was Cassie's money sitting in an interest-bearing account, knowing Spivey wanted him to provide info he could use against him, knowing the Fishers would make a grab for the money when it was available..... Yeah, I have a few thoughts about it.

Don't know what you mean about 'cope'. You mean he didn't want to face living his life without Michelle and raising his child without Michelle's help and guidance? We all grieve and cope in our own way.

[Cardinal]

You mean other than not needing the money, not wanting the money, knowing it was Cassie's money sitting in an interest-bearing account, knowing Spivey wanted him to provide info he could use against him, knowing the Fishers would make a grab for the money when it was available..... Yeah, I have a few thoughts about it.

Don't know what you mean about 'cope'. You mean he didn't want to face living his life without Michelle and raising his child without Michelle's help and guidance? We all grieve and cope in our own way.

Based upon his craigslist posting and his continued relationship with MM, it seems to me he was coping with the thing that matters to him.

JMO

(Now that was snarky, AE. :D)

[kingbuff]

By all means, if the personal page from several years ago is available, please post it, as the newest poster (stallagant???) is incorrect in claiming that drug use is mentioned on the page.

What slander? If you are suggesting that my conclusions that Jason's inability to place a headstone, process a life insurance policy, and hold a job imply he is unable to cope are slander, you are mistaken. That is the only logical conclusion available to me.

If you have other insights, please share them.

I hope no one posts it. Maybe it's a mud ball.

[on the go]

You mean other than not needing the money, not wanting the money, knowing it was Cassie's money sitting in an interest-bearing account, knowing Spivey wanted him to provide info he could use against him, knowing the Fishers would make a grab for the money when it was available..... Yeah, I have a few thoughts about it.

Don't know what you mean about 'cope'. You mean he didn't want to face living his life without Michelle and raising his child without Michelle's help and guidance? We all grieve and cope in our own way.

Which Michelle?

[kingbuff]

Does this help you better undersand?

The meaning of Slayer:Meaning:

Someone who causes the death of a person


Synonyms:

killer; slayerHypernyms ("slayer" is a kind of...):

individual; mortal; person; somebody; someone; soul (a human being


Hyponyms (each of the following is a kind of "slayer"):

executioner; public executioner (an official who inflicts capital punishment in pursuit of a warrant)
choker; garroter; garrotter; strangler; throttler (someone who kills by strangling)

liquidator; manslayer; murderer (a criminal who commits homicide (who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being))

poisoner (someone who kills with poison)

So, he decided not to answer Spivey in court and give him info he could use against him. So then Spivey threatens to take his child and force him to give info Spivey can use against him. When the killers are arrested, none of this will matter.

So, trot out that 'hard evidence' you have that justifies your vile accusations against Michelle's husband.

[Cardinal]

So, he decided not to answer Spivey in court and give him info he could use against him. So then Spivey threatens to take his child and force him to give info Spivey can use against him. When the killers are arrested, none of this will matter.

So, trot out that 'hard evidence' you have that justifies your vile accusations against Michelle's husband.

I'd like to see some 'hard evidence' that Det Spivey threatened to take Cassidy. Surely you must have it, to make an allegation like that.

[enigma™]

Jason, the 'slayer' Young. That has a nice ring to it, does it not? How is that for hard evidence, buff? :thumbsup:

[Jester]

You mean other than not needing the money, not wanting the money, knowing it was Cassie's money sitting in an interest-bearing account, knowing Spivey wanted him to provide info he could use against him, knowing the Fishers would make a grab for the money when it was available..... Yeah, I have a few thoughts about it.

Don't know what you mean about 'cope'. You mean he didn't want to face living his life without Michelle and raising his child without Michelle's help and guidance? We all grieve and cope in our own way.

I've yet to meet anyone that doesn't want a million dollars, or whatever the life insurance policy amount. That's a little far fetched, I think.

The Fishers didn't need Jason to process the policy in order to ensure that the money was given to Cassidy, so that explanation doesn't work.

Your point about Jason having to answer some difficult questions would be one reason why Jason declined to pursue the life insurance proceeds, but that is not a reason an innocent man would give.

Perhaps the trauma of Michelle's murder was too much for Jason to manage. Has he had any grief counseling to assist with his difficulties? Clearly, if Jason is unable to move forward with his life and manage his wife's estate, a job, independent living, and a headstone, two years after her murder, then he needs some help.

[kingbuff]

Jason, the 'slayer' Young. That has a nice ring to it, does it not? How is that for hard evidence, buff? :thumbsup:

Oh, no. You're going to bring your silly colors and inane posts to this board? You've made the other board unreadable, and now you plan to bring it here? Tell us not.

[enigma™]

Oh, no. You're going to bring your silly colors and inane posts to this board? You've made the other board unreadable, and now you plan to bring it here? Tell us not.

I know not of which you speak. Please enlighten me. :tonguewag:

[Jester]

I hope no one posts it. Maybe it's a mud ball.

It's not a mudball. She was most likely celebrating a personal achievement and victory - completing her undergraduate degree. Apparently she was so successful in her psychology degree, that she has been admitted to a master's degree program. That is a significant accomplishment, and well worth celebrating.

[on the go]

So, he decided not to answer Spivey in court and give him info he could use against him. So then Spivey threatens to take his child and force him to give info Spivey can use against him. When the killers are arrested, none of this will matter.

So, trot out that 'hard evidence' you have that justifies your vile accusations against Michelle's husband.


How do you know about all this "strong arming" Kingbuff? Something you think or something you know?

[Cardinal]

I went searching to see if her my space might have been saved on line but it just takes me to the one she has now. I hope she knows LE can get in even if they are private. I did find where people were talking about reading it way back in 2007. So we are not the only forum that had it ran. They were also talking about the mixie1018 selling cigs. I don't know if LE ever checked that out. ~snipped~


Why would LE be interested in Meredith's myspace page?

[enigma™]

Does the slayer have to show up for the hearing on 2/4? Will any locals be in attendance? I respectfully request a full report on his demeanor and appearance. Will Cassidy be present during any of the proceedings? I have never been involved in something like this, so TIA for all responses.

[Leanne Weich]

How any adult can possibly suggest because someone alledges they are coming down from a high is an admission of drug use, is beyond my comprehension. Many many people use that phrase with regard to things other than drugs. When I accomplish something outside of what is normal for me, I experience a high and then I feel that I am on a high. We jsut closed on my dream home and I've been on an amazing high ever since. I guess I'll be coming down from that high at the end of the month when I have to physically unpack the boxes and see my bank balance when the mortgage and removal fees have come out of it. Thank goodness I wasn't naive enough to put it on a profile somewhere out there in cyberland or I'd be thought to be a drug addict too.

ETA: I think a good description of being high will be how most of the posters here will feel the day JY is arrested for the murder of Michelle and then I think we'll all start coming down from that high when we hear the evidence LE has pertaining to the events surrounding it.

[enigma™]

Why would LE be interested in Meredith's myspace page?

Indeed, why? This is not a criminal proceeding, and Meredith was one of Jason's pawns. I believe Meredith would gladly show her page to LE, if they were so inquisitive about it, but I do not believe it is an issue for them.

[Jester]

I think what you are talking about is her journal. It doesn't mention drugs just a week high. It was her my space that mentioned drugs and I imagine some on here did page captures of that my space before she went private.

Here's her journal page There are 2 of them


http://mixie118.livejournal.com/

http://mixie118.livejournal.com/profile

Thanks. No mention of drug use in either of the links you provided. I also know for a fact that the false drug allegations are based on her comment about "coming down from a high", and nothing else. Several people, for unknown reasons, deliberately chose to interpret that phrase as drug related. Many people, including myself, experience a high from a major accomplishment, and I suspect that Meredith is like those people.

I did notice that this is a page from April 2003.

[Leanne Weich]

Thanks. No mention of drug use in either of the links you provided. I also know for a fact that the false drug allegations are based on her comment about "coming down from a high", and nothing else. Several people, for unknown reasons, deliberately chose to interpret that phrase as drug related. Many people, including myself, experience a high from a major accomplishment, and I suspect that Meredith is like those people.

I did notice that this is a page from April 2003.

As a matter of interest, do you know when would graduation likely have taken place if that was the year Meredith got her degree?

[Cardinal]

Well they could be interested because they are investigating her sisters murder and so far we have read 3 inconsistent statements in warrants. Maybe not they may just keep trying to make JY the killer. IMO

Oh. Since we were talking about the custody case, I didn't follow you.

I'm sure if they were interested, we'd have seen a warrant by now. And I've not seen 3 inconsistent statements in warrants.

[Cardinal]

You said the same thing I said. It wasn't her journals that had the admitted drug use it was her my space. Her my space was from the day MY was murdered and is still currant just private.

How do you know it's still current if it's private? I don't do myspace, but I thought you had to be a "friend" or something to see it if it's private.

[Jester]

As a matter of interest, do you know when would graduation likely have taken place if that was the year Meredith got her degree?

I don't. Degree completion is almost always in April, but I don't know what year Meredith graduated. I can't say for certain that this was the reason that she was on a high, but it is one reason, amongst others, for people being on a high.

[Jester]

You said the same thing I said. It wasn't her journals that had the admitted drug use it was her my space. Her my space was from the day MY was murdered and is still currant just private.

There was no admitted drug use anywhere. Linking two pages that do not mention drug use, and then claiming there is more information elsewhere that claims drug use, doesn't work. Some people have chosen to interpret "coming down from a high" as drug related, and there's absolutely nothing more to it.

[Jester]

Well the one where she hates her life is dated April 8th 2003 and the one about the high is April 9th 2003. She doesn't seem to happy about anything in the one and a day later she is coming down from a high. You can feel free to draw your own conclusions and I will draw mine.

Assuming that coming down from a high exclusively relates to drug use is not exactly what clean living, law abiding people do.

[Tia]

So, he decided not to answer Spivey in court and give him info he could use against him. So then Spivey threatens to take his child and force him to give info Spivey can use against him. When the killers are arrested, none of this will matter.

So, trot out that 'hard evidence' you have that justifies your vile accusations against Michelle's husband.

You are constantly insuating that you have info on the "killers", and "when they are caught" none of this will matter. If you are so sure that Jason is innocent and you know anything about the "killers" (as you so confidently state you do on every message board that you can), you need to go to LE with this info. It would save your buddy Jason a ton of money and would save Cassidy from being put through a possible tug of war with the Youngs and Fishers. Why continue playing this game of riddles on a message board?

[enigma™]

You are constantly insuating that you have info on the "killers", and "when they are caught" none of this will matter. If you are so sure that Jason is innocent and you know anything about the "killers" (as you so confidently state you do on every message board that you can), you need to go to LE with this info. It would save your buddy Jason a ton of money and would save Cassidy from being put through a possible tug of war with the Youngs and Fishers. Why continue playing this game of riddles on a message board?

It is all he has in defense of his "friend", the slayer, Jason Lynn Young. MUO

Justice for Michelle and Rylan!