Mexican officials vow crime crackdown as Colonia LeBaron slaying victims buried

[walton]

http://www.globaltv.com/components/print.aspx?id=1152838&sponsor=

James Marion Oler, 44, is the Canadian bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He ascended to that position after FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs excommunicated Winston Blackmore in 2002.

A mechanic by trade, Oler was an unlikely choice for bishop even though his father was once Bountiful's patriarch. However, he is said to be extremely loyal to Jeffs.



I thought I might as well keep these two on one thread. Winston likes to talk and Jim Oler likes to keep to himself.

This whole thing with Canada acting now threw me off. I wasn't expecting them to do anything until after the Warren Jeffs trials.

Surprised me it did.

I hope someone here knows the legal stuff in Canada.

There is a whole lot out there concerning Winston Blackmore. A lot of history. And a lot of money woes. A lot.

Personally I don't care for Winston anymore than I do Warren. Winston has been caught in his lies a time or two. Once I think on the Larry King show.

If he did any talk shows I'd again would like to see Nancy Grace "interview" him. :biggrin: She doesn't have much time for B.S. either. jmo

I've seen some articles about some of Winstons kids and they make me smile.

[walton]

In my earlier post I said that I had seen some stories about Winstons kids.

I was thinking about Ben Blackmore. Ben Blackmore is actually Winstons nephew. And the stories that make me smile are the ones where he talks about riding his bike or enjoying time with his friends and family now.



Grammy I think that Canada is the testing ground. I am sure they don't want how many thousands moving to Canada.

[juliekan]

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/blogs/story/Brent-Hunsaker-The-end-of-Polygamy/6CRvQwMO2k6wULOsZHVoNA.cspx

Brent Hunsaker: The end of Polygamy?

Forget Texas, Canada has launched the legal salvo that just could lead to a radical disruption in the modern practice of polygamy.

We should pay close attention to what happens in a Canadian courtroom. It may well have irrevocable consequences for those of us in the States.

[juliekan]

found this list online, so it's just IMO.

Winston’s wives:

1. Jane Oler, 18, legally married in 1975. Divorced 2005. Canadian.
2. Christina Gallup Blackmore, 15. Married in 1982, daughter of Leroy Gallup and Karen Quinton in Colorado City. She is a second cousin to Winston. American (although possibly now has Canadian citizenship)
3. Mary Ann Gallup, 16. Married in 1985, Christina’s full sister. American (although possibly now has Canadian citizenship).
4. Marjorie Johnson
5. Sharon Johnson
6. Susan Gallup, 15. Full sister to Christina and Mary Ann.
7. Harmony Quinton, 15. Daughter of Barlow and Becky Quinton. American
8. Edith Barlow. Daughter of Alvin Barlow. American facing deportation.
9. Leah Barlow, 24. Daughter of Alvin Barlow. An RN and midwife, she was actively courted by Winston.
10. Kandi Bateman.
11. Catherine Broadbent, 16. Sister to Fawn Broadbent, returned to Colorado City after the split and took Winston’s son with her. Reassigned to ????
12. Marsha Chatwin, 17. Married same day as her sister, Zelpha.
13. Zelpha Chatwin, 21. Both Marsha and Zelpha are under deportation orders.
14. Marleena Fischer, daughter of Vaughan Fischer (possibly Sharane is her mother?)
15. Janelle Thornton Fischer, 16. Adopted daughter of Vaughan and Sharane Fischer. Her mother, Brenda Thornton, was briefly married to Vaughan Fischer before she died of cancer. Brenda’s sisters (one if Janet Johanson) tried to gain custody of Brenda’s children in the late 1980s and lost in court. American.
16. Shirley Black Jessop. Daughter of Orson and Leora Jessop. American
17. Jennifer Johnson. Daughter of Larry Johnson. Amerian
18. Lorraine Johnson, 15. Daughter of Ray Johnson. American
19. Diana Lane, 17. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
20. Marsha Lane. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
21. Ruth Lane. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
22. Shalina Palmer, 15. Daughter of Morgan Palmer and Ruth McKinley. Canadian. Legally married Lorraine Johnson in December 2005 under Canada’s same-sex marriage law

HUH?

[lotty]

found this list online, so it's just IMO.

Winston’s wives:


22. Shalina Palmer, 15. Daughter of Morgan Palmer and Ruth McKinley. Canadian. Legally married Lorraine Johnson in December 2005 under Canada’s same-sex marriage law

HUH?

I remember this from the "Bust Up In Bountiful" The Fifth Estate video. WB said he didn't know they had gotten married. Speculation was that it was due to immigration issues. So, where would that put them in the eyes of FLDS?

[texski]

i found it interesting that some of the so called wives were under deportation orders. as americans, a non marriage could not get them canadian citzenship. good for canada. i hugged four canadians last night at a party and told them we loved thier country and hope they will be behind their government in this arrest and trial. four more people who are now interested in helping stop this madness. spread a little sunshine on the cockroaches.

[walton]

Texski you have a sense of humor like no other. You made me smile just like you did when you called Warren horseface.

Thanks.

I'll be back Monday.

[walton]

That's scary, the thought that hundreds if not thousands fleeing Canada for locations here. Hopefully the media will keep the light focused on the problem. I'm sure the people living in Eldorado, TX will find this unpleasant news. Even more FLDS at YFZ.:scared:

Would have agree with Walton & Texski on ole Warren being horsefaced.:laugh:

Ya know this works two ways. If Canada doesn't do anything there might be a wave going north. I don't know that the borders are ready for a steady stream of white pickemup trucks.

If they come down, more than likely they wouldn't go to Texas but to Utah and Arizona where the laws enforced are picked and chosen. jmo Shurtleff would be standing at the border with a sign saying will work for food. There won't be enough monies to pay his salary. again jmo

[texski]

lucky grandmas put out to pasture like an old horse, grandpas got a brand new young playmate.
i read in one of the books about polygamy that the decree by the prophets was that you were to only have sexual intercourse when the woman was fertile, or in heat, like the cows. you were doing this, ha ha, just to make sure that they were kept pregnant, dont waste the seed on someone who could not get pregnant, whether due to age or the time of the month., therefore, all grandmas were just in the way. or some peace and quiet in their old age was their reward???

what i had read was that the senior wife was supposed to keep track of their cycles so they would know when the best time for pregnancy was there .
such a wonder ful way to live, i think you would have to have the expectations of mansions in heaven or whole planets in heaven in be able to cope every day.
yes only my opinion

[juliekan]

http://www.childbrides.org/news.html

Former B.C. Liberal MLA to represent Blackmore on polygamy charges
The Canadian Press
google.com
Originally published January 19, 2009


VICTORIA, B.C. — Accused B.C. polygamist Winston Blackmore is being represented in court this week by a former member of Premier Gordon Campbell's Liberal government. Former Nelson-Creston MLA Blair Suffredine is one of the lawyers who will defend Blackmore in a case that is expected to challenge Canada's law against polygamy, and may eventually end up in the Supreme Court of Canada. Blackmore and James Oler, also charged with polygamy, are scheduled to appear in court in Creston on Wednesday. Both men were released on bail after their arrests earlier this month. Suffredine says he does not agree with polygamy, but believes Blackmore has an excellent case, especially considering same-sex marriage is legal in Canada. Suffredine says well-known Vancouver criminal lawyer Glen Orris is also part of Blackmore's legal team. Suffredine lost his seat to the New Democrats in the 2005 provincial election. Orris, who was part of the defence team for notorious Vancouver serial killer Robert Pickton, could not be immediately reached for comment.

[lotty]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/community+divided/1201572/story.html
A Community Divided
by Daphne Bramham
January 21, 2009

[juliekan]

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/community+divided/1201572/story.html
A Community Divided
by Daphne Bramham
January 21, 2009


oh my :eek:


But news that the former MLA was working for Blackmore shocked and infuriated Linda Price and Audrey Vance, co-chairs of a local group called Altering Destiny Through Education.

They've spent the last five years lobbying politicians, including Suffredine, to tighten the rules for two taxpayer-supported schools at Bountiful, investigate allegations of child brides, sexual exploitation, human trafficking and polygamy and prosecute the leaders.

"I feel betrayed," Price said Tuesday. "He must have been slapping Winston's back or Winston was slapping his back and we didn't realize it."

They recalled meetings with Suffredine and how he had told them that he thought prosecuting polygamists was a waste of money because the polygamy law was unconstitutional.

Vance says it helps explain why it has taken so long for charges to be laid.

[juliekan]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11515074

Lawyers for FLDS-offshoot figure will use Canada's same-sex law in defense

Vancouver, British Columbia »Canada's legalization of same-sex marriage will be used in the defense of two men charged with polygamy earlier this month, a lawyer for one of the men said Wednesday.

Winson Blackmore, 52, and James Oler, 44, made their first court appearance on the charges Wednesday in a courtroom in Creston, British Columbia.

The hearing lasted less than five minutes, and was adjourned to Feb. 18 for further disclosure of documents.

Blackmore's lawyer, Blair Suffredine, said in a telephone interview that if gays marrying in Canada is legal, then marrying more than one person be legal. Canada's Parliament extended full marriage rights to same-sex couples in 2005.

"If [gays] can marry, what is the reason that public policy says one person can't marry more than one person?" said Suffredine, who is former provincial lawmaker.

Suffredine said standards have changed.

He said the case is also about religious persecution.


OK, now I get why he :sneaky: had 2 of his wives get married (as posted earlier)

[juliekan]

from the earlier post of Winston's wives:

18. Lorraine Johnson, 15. Daughter of Ray Johnson. American
22. Shalina Palmer, 15. Daughter of Morgan Palmer and Ruth McKinley. Canadian. Legally married Lorraine Johnson in December 2005 under Canada’s same-sex marriage law

awful lot of 15 year olds on his marriage list....can you imagine being 15 and married to another girl? if you ever escaped this lifestyle, you'd still have to get a divorce from your first wife!

then again if one of them gets pregnant.....

[walton]

http://pluralwife.blogspot.com/2008/04/mary-batchelors-introductory-comments.html

http://www.abc4.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=84321@video.ktvx.com Those that practice the Principal. War on Words. MaryB. says she is mormon. Believes in it but does not practice it. anymore.

Check out the video

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:1vOF86ywy2UJ:www.accessmylibrary.co m/coms2/summary_0286-32731302_ITM+mary+batchelor+heidi+mattingly&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Great article. Consenting adults? Who gets to choose?

http://www.childbrides.org/raid_des_Utah_polygs_offer_support_for_Texas_kids. html

The care packages, some of them on display at the press conference, include games, TVs, hymnals, diapers and Book of Mormon scriptures on cassette. More than $4,000 has been collected to date, and there has been "an outpouring of phone calls ... both from inside and outside our culture," Batchelor said.

Did anyone see a tv in any of the film footage taken at the YFZ ranch?

From that same link: Mattingly and other members of the pro-polygamy coalition Principle Voices held a press conference on the steps of the Salt Lake City-County Building Monday afternoon to urge "cultural sensitivity" on the part of the social workers and others dealing with the 416 Texas children currently being housed at the San Angelo Coliseum in Texas.

"Cultural sensitivity" Interesting choice of words coming from a woman who is "spiritually married" to a man who has over 110 kids.

Hey Harley did you mean busybodies or busy body? oh never mind, I think I understand.


I am touched that you stopped by. Let's talk.

[walton]

No need to tell do any window peeping. The innocent, non consenting ones are telling their stories.

The children.

And the children that grow up into adults that have had enough.

Plyg Patrols? Isn't that what Warren had going with his lil' Goon Squad spying on all of his followers?


Swearing? Stupid? pompous? Name calling? oh my. How does ones religion fit into this? Oh yeah, it is only religious when the "spiritual marriages" take place. oy


That kind of love talk will get you no where. Been there a long time ago. Did nothing for me then and it does nothing for me now.

I missed the part about you raising using your voice on the men that took these little girls to bed. Hmmmm But then you might have been busy.




But I am still touched that you stopped by.

[walton]

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:DCOn8BvyoV4J:www.4thefamily.us/aggregator/sources/2+Anne+W.,+Marianne+W.,+Linda+K.+polygamy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

A couple of years ago, Anne W., Marianne W., Linda K. and I visited with several families in Bountiful, B.C., including Winston Blackmore's family. We stayed in their homes and enjoyed their warm hospitality. They embraced us, complete strangers, into their friendship, and we value that. We met Winston in the evening, and watched as his children filed in for hugs and kisses, to say goodnight at bedtime, and gathered around the room while he sang to them.


Does anyone remember the Mackert story?

[texski]

well, this is a message board open to all. we are sure getting some other opinions here lately.
i think the men belive they have such a good thing going that we outside women have no right to try to upset their apple cart.
if the children were not involved i think i could agree with him, grown women can do any stupid thing they want when it comes to men and sex and many do just that.
but i am with the other women on this board, it is the children who are paying the price .

[walton]

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story/New-Lead-In-Decades-Old-Murder-Case-Of-Polygamous/orHQCu-uLE6TPvbxlR2i3A.cspx

Officials say Lebaron is probably living in Latin America but they believe there could be a Utah connection.

A Utah connection?

More about Tarsa here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407342,00.html

"Jacqueline — who was, if you’ve seen 'The Godfather,' would be like the consigliore to Aaron at that time — said 'This is a sign of God. We’ve got to go kill the sons and daughters of perdition,' which is what you were named if you left the Church," said Terry Clark, the assistant U.S. Attorney in Houston.

Jacqueline and Aaron plotted and ordered the deaths of three sect members who had fled the group and started new lives in Texas, prosecutors said.

"They ascribed to a thing called blood atonement, which basically meant for you to go to heaven you had to be killed," Clark said. Their teachings were based on a book Ervil wrote while in prison.

In June 1988, members of the church simultaneously gunned down brothers Mark and Duane Chynoweth and Ed Marston in Houston and Irving, Texas.

"Part of the instruction was to kill anybody over 6 years old who saw what happened," Clark said.

So the members also shot Duane's 8-year-old daughter, Jenny, in the head, murdering the only witness to their crime.

[walton]

I seem to sense someone posting here is just a wee bit angry. Work through it. The issue at hand is not polygamy to me, it is the way the women and especially the children are treated. In the mainstream society if a father molests his daughter he can be charged but in the past this has not happened within the polygamy communities. Also what gets to me is that the FLDS group is using religion as a basis to explain away their acts against children.
Also polygamy is against the law. If it was just adults commiting this crime I would not have to say anything. But when there are children involved that is a completely different story. Polygamy is just not about polygamy. It is also about the damage done to children as well as breaking the laws where children are concerned. Also what about child labor laws, taking funds from the states instead of providing for your own family and whatever else may be going on.

This issue is not only about polygamy, it is also about other issues that are outside of the law of the land.

If I didn't know better I would say we have a polygamist among us trying to stir up trouble.

jmoo

Hi Grammy

I can only speak for myself when I say that I get angry. I am not sure if Harley is angry or if Harley just wanted to play.

I wish I could say that this isn't about Polygamy but where do the crimes start but with the practice of Polygamy. jmo

Shurtleff and crew: Shurtleff, Voices for Polygamy, the Safety committee, the sub committee, the sub sub committee, the assistant sub committee are all trying to mask a problem with out getting to the core.

No one needs to peek in any windows. It is all out there in the open and Shurtleff doesn't do a damn thing. Kids are speaking out. Adults are speaking out. The only thing missing is the action on Shurtleffs part.

He has everything on his desk before him and the man still can't move. What the heck is wrong with him? He does have a bum leg but it doesn't seem to bother him going to the games and doing the walk-about with Willie. What the heck was all that about? What was Willie really showing Shurtleff. Once again a half butted story. Bits and Pieces and all for show. Why?

Joey (made up name) is out at Dan Fischers place. Why? Seems to me that someone should investigate? Kid doesn't want anything to happen to his parents or siblings. That is nice but ex wives don't want to testify in Domestic Abuse cases either but it is out of their hands once it is reported. They must act. Doesn't Child Welfare work in Utah? Is anyone working in Utah? Heck, they could have Judge Steven Conn go out and take a look, he really isn't doing a good job at Judging. imo Put him to work.

Shurtleff sees the Welfare numbers go up. Doesn't raise an eyebrow. But the many reports flying thru his office should make him stop a minute or two to investigate the claims.

What do you know, Joeys (same made up name) father is listed 22 times on papers in the Welfare office.

No father listed? Why does Suzie have 6 kids in 7 years and not have a father listed? Red Flag Red Flag Red Flag

She won't put a fathers name down? k.... no job?.....k..... can't feed the kids? Put them with someone who will. Taxpayers are paying for it anyway. Bet she would think twice about naming the baby's daddy.

Not enough money or resources? Again a sorry excuse for laziness. Cut another trip to the ballgame Mr. Shurtleff. Maybe working 5 days a week might be a better plan. Ahhh heck put in another day anyway, he's been overpaid the last how many years.
Isn't that what he is asking the tax-payers? Work an extra day so we can feed the growing number of kids in Utah.

Not enough jail space? Again plain ol' BS. Put a fence around one of Warrens homes and revamp it a bit, leave the big ol wall around the compound and lets start housing some of these men who prey on little girls. They all can take turns wearing red wigs and wear pink jumpsuits. And to make sure they get their exercise they can work the hot fields in Texas like the women and children did. Plant some real crops and hoe the gardens. Feed the unfed cattle and climb the highest roofs. If they think they can fly let them try.

I get angry that NOT ONE mother or Father from any of these groups tried to stop any of this. NOT ONE. They cry about a piece of farmland but run and hide when it comes to their kids.

They use to run from Willie and now they run to Willie. Why? Because they don't know any better? or is it because they are to lazy to think for themselves?

I say rip off that band-aid and let the reality sink in. Stand up for their kids. Get out of the cess pool they have created. Even EPA might not be big enough for them to clean up this mess. But babysitting isn't and hasn't worked for the last 50 years.

Heidi Mattingly Kingstons husband is known to have over 110 children. How does one feed so many? That is just one man from one cult. The Kingston Clan.

Warren Jeffs- how did he feed his crew?

Merrill Jessop?

Dan Barlow?


I would love it if Harley would come back and talk. I mean really talk. Answer questions. Ask questions. But I bet she doesn't. Silence says more sometimes than words spoken or written. jmo

But I am afraid these one hitter posters just show up to tease.

Right Harley?



Sorry for the length but not the content.

[texski]

love the last few posts.
talking about the law, i thought it was against the law to apply for welfare unless you gave the name of the father. that enables the welfare office to go after the father for support . is this the law in utah, grammy??? is there someway the welfare office they go to can be forced to follow the law? they are public employees who are not enforcing a clear law that was put there to protect the children .

[walton]

love the last few posts.
talking about the law, i thought it was against the law to apply for welfare unless you gave the name of the father. that enables the welfare office to go after the father for support . is this the law in utah, grammy??? is there someway the welfare office they go to can be forced to follow the law? they are public employees who are not enforcing a clear law that was put there to protect the children .

Texski that is what I've been asking for years. Why aren't those working the Welfare department doing their jobs?

I think someone explained it this way. Many of them don't fill out the spot that lists the father or they just say "I don't know." So instead of letting the girl sweat a little bit they say " oh my dear you poor little thing here is X amount of help that we can give you." They don't want to see the children or the mothers go hungry.

I understand that to a point.

I don't believe for one minute that those working the Welfare office has ever followed thru with " You must give us the name of the father." You must go out and find work we will be cutting you off in two years. More children or not.

Let them work at a shelter. Let them work at WalMart, Let them flip pancakes at a pancake house. Let them open a day care in the next city. Set up one day care and bus those ladies to the next town to work at a non cult owned business and let them make their own monies and pay their fair share of taxes. Win Win situation. Just let them be responsible. jmo

[walton]

It boils down to fear, Utah officals are afraid to tackle the problem, they see the cost that occured with Texas dealing with just one small part of the FLDS, multtiply that by 10,000 plus FLDS members, expand that to include all the other polygamous groups as well as the indies.

IMO this real problem, The problem with polygamy is practice of "marrying" underage girls. FLDS leader Warren Jeffs has even been photographed kissing a 12 year old "wife".

If it was just persons over 18, don't think most people would even care. Because there are not enough females to go around in polygamous groups, they either have to bring in females from outside the group or resort to marrying younger and younger females and removing excess males from group to insure enough females for multiple marriages. Which creates the "lost boys" problem of young men kicked out of polygamous groups. Polygamy has also been the root of much violence as in cases of LaBarons, Lafferty, and Brian D. Mitchell, who unable to obtain females within polygamist culture resorted to kidnapping, & attempted kidnappings in California & Utah. The FLDS IMO will not be able to explain away the violence and crime associated with polygamous lifestyle.


And with the violence associated with some polygamous groups, fear of another Waco or another rash of LeBaron murders, but on a massive scale. Utah gov't IMO is afraid of what might happen if they REALLY started enforcing the laws on polygamy & associated child abuse.

The FLDS is trying to convince us that they are like gays, just another alturnative lifestyle, but they can't explan away Warren Jeffs and his "kiss".

Read this about attempt to make polygamy like gay lifestyle.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705279289,00.html

In the comments section, I posted as IMO.

I don't think that they get it. Two completely different issues.

Polygamy hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now.

Look how much these guys snubbed their noses at the laws as they are now. What would be the limit? The FLDS think that they need to have 3 wives to get to a higher heaven. So why are they marrying more than three?

80 wives? How the heck does one set up a government office to keep track of these things? What about insurance? lordy. The tax man? lol Child welfare offices? Food stamp offices? Insurance?

Nope. I just don't think we can handle it. I am sure Canada couldn't handle it either.

It might start off with two consenting adults. Then a third and a fourth. But what about those kids? How fair is that? Do you remember the story about Benjamin Blackmore.

People working and pooling their money isn't the answer. Look at the UEP idea. Some got richer and fatter, some just got fatter and some don't have coats or shoes for their kids. Why? Because they are still paying the likes of Willie and Warren.

Merrill lives in a houses with glass windows. Some don't have a house to call their own. Where is Ruth? out in the boondocks still trying to see her kids.

[walton]

I have to go to a company Xmas party.

I'll stop back later or Monday.

[walton]

Hi Walton,

You bring up some very good points. I was telling my hubby about your last post about the tax issue. I told him that sometimes I get headaches trying to answer your posts. He laughed and said even without ever talking to you he likes you. He said you sounded like me in many ways. I just laughed.

I agree that I too get angry with all that is not being done. I believe Texas is just begining to scratch the surface of what makes up this polygamy group. I have been real disappointed with what no body has done to protect the kids. With each generation there will be more and more of these kids who are going to rebel and tell more and more of what is going on. It is high time the authorities started taking steps to protect these children.

I guess Willie really thinks he is in charge by inviting Shurtleff down to do a walkabout. I don't give a hang about what property they own or anything of this nature. I just want something done to break this cycle of abuse.

I have no idea about Harley but she sounds like a poster who used to be on here. It really gets to me when someone comes along and accuses us of being pompus religious fanatics or the moral police or any other words they use to accuse us of not being forward thinking and concerned citizens when it comes to the care and rights of the children of the polygamist groups. I feel this way for all children not just the polygamist. All children should be protected and secure not used like a piece of furniture.
What in the heck is wrong with people who do not put their childrens protection before their own needs?
It would be nice if the occasional poster was genuine and came to share ideas and information. But it seems as though these posters come to cause trouble by accusing regular posters of not looking at the big picture.
I feel that all the regular posters who have been here for awhile honestly want what is best for these kids and are willing to share their ideas and concerns with what is going on.

As far as Natalie is concerned I believe she is really trying to do what is best for her clients. Threats did not work with her. Personally her private life is nobody's business and I for one don't give a hang about the comments going on about her personal life. I am sure alot of what has been said is nothing but vicious rumor. I believe her and Judge Walther are trying their best to make sure all these children have a better way of life then what they have had.
From what I have read about the court hearing and what some of these young women say, I have a hard time with what comes out of their mouth. The words they use tends to be from someone much older with an agenda.

jmoo

I like you too Grammy. I still think that your hubby should take you down to those hall meetings, we could use cell phones and you could jump up and ask my questions. The hubby could hold you back when it gets bad and hang up on me when my voice gets too loud on the phone. Team work.

I think Judge Walther and Malonis are doing a fine job. Quite frankly I don't give a rats behind about Malonis past or personal history. I care about how she is doing her job. And she appears to be doing a mighty fine job with all this.

[walton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmMekjzspBQ

Wow!!

BillM., Mary Batchelor, the lady from the Common Room and Kurt Schulzke the man from the blog I Percieve talking to Jeri Ward from Right Talk about the Senate Hearing.

Here is some info on Jeri Ward. http://jerrilynnward.com/?q=node/1

Listen to this whole thing. Things just got more interesting.

[walton]

http://www.childbrides.org/raid_des_attorneys_agitated_about_family_plans.htm l

Jerri Lynn Ward, representing James and Sarah Jessop — a couple who have a number of children in state custody — said their children are scattered in foster care facilities in Texas from Amarillo to Liverpool and simply arranging visitation has proven nightmarish.


My buddy Mr. Google and I bonded a bit lastnight. Interesting things out there. Try it. Google one way and then google another. Add a name, add another name drop a name.


wow

[texski]

walton you are a great detective. if i am ever arrested would you be my PI to help prove my innocense
the info you dig out to send out to us is incredible. thanks again and i will be good and not get arrested.

[walton]

Texski please don't get arrested.

If I was a good detective I would have been looking for the connection. I fell upon it. I would be able to connect all the dots. Heck, I am seeing dots but I can't connect them all. Ugggh

It answered a couple of questions I had in the back of my mind but raised 20 or so more.

Does Jeri Ward know Rod Parker?

Is this why and how Rod Parker took the whole BillM thing lightly when he said that he talked to BillM about the comments BillM made about Judge Walther? And BillM said he'd take down Judge Walthers addy off his blog.

Did Jeri Ward offer her services or is she one who is being paid? If she did offer her services was it before or after this Right talk episode was done? Was she the one who made contact or was she contacted by the Jessops or by someone else?

What was BillM's daughters name?

Who is the Miss No Name lady from the Common Room?

How did Mary Batchelor get in there so fast? Red Flag Red Flag Red Flag

Why isn't anyone else asking these questions?

[lotty]

Here is a pretty good piece, although I thought Ms. Jordan could have delved into this a little more.JMHO

http://www.examiner.com/x-1892-Phoenix-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m1d24-Marriage-in-all-its-forms
Marriage, in all its forms
January 24, 8:04 AM
by Debbie Jordan
Phoenix Progressive Examiner

[walton]

Lotty I understand what Debbie Jordan is trying to say but isn't it better if the dust settles from this first?

Check out the Population in the United States alone. http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

305,703,648 approx.

Now what states where/are having the most problems concerning Polygamy and the all the issues that come with this practice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Utah


I think the same-sex marriages should be dealt with first...... and then Polygamy. maybe 50 years from now.

Having them register isn't going to stop the abuses. Putting the offender away will. Can't have babies if the baby maker isn't there. jmo

Warren hasn't made any babies since he's been in la la land. Costing taxpayers to house him? No... it would and has cost the tax-payers more NOT housing these jokers. jmo

[lotty]

Lotty I understand what Debbie Jordan is trying to say but isn't it better if the dust settles from this first?

Check out the Population in the United States alone. http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

305,703,648 approx.

Now what states where/are having the most problems concerning Polygamy and the all the issues that come with this practice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_Utah


I think the same-sex marriages should be dealt with first...... and then Polygamy. maybe 50 years from now.

Having them register isn't going to stop the abuses. Putting the offender away will. Can't have babies if the baby maker isn't there. jmo

Warren hasn't made any babies since he's been in la la land. Costing taxpayers to house him? No... it would and has cost the tax-payers more NOT housing these jokers. jmo

ITA...To me same sex marriage and polygamy aren't even comparable. I was hoping she would have gone into the issues with polygamy more...besides tax issues, there is community property, insurances, all kinds of things that if a family were held to the responsibilities...most monogamous relationships are held to, would make polygamy fiscally unappealing if they were held to laws like everyone else. JMO

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705283293,00.html

Canadian prosecutors have filed a new charge against a pair of polygamist leaders.

An amended criminal information was filed in a British Columbia court on Thursday merging the cases against polygamist leader Winston Blackmore and Fundamentalist LDS Church Bishop Jim Oler into a single case.

"We have added one wife to Oler's charge," special prosecutor Terry Robertson told the Deseret News on Friday. "After the original information was sworn we went back and reviewed our material and thought we had sufficient evidence to justify the new charge."

Both men are charged with practicing polygamy. They are scheduled to appear in court on Feb. 18, where Robertson said he anticipates asking a judge to transfer the case from the tiny town of Creston to the metropolis of Vancouver, because of conflicts of interest with the provincial judges in the Kootenay region.

[texski]

a lot of people from canada come down to florida in the winter. i have been talking to some ofthem, they are getting info from their friends and family at home. they all are saying they do not like polygamy, they do not want these people there, but they are not at all sure that legally their courts can do anything about them. they are mostly aware of what happened in texas and seem to be getting good coverage about polygamy. it was very nice that they were all agreeing with me, dont we all love that, but they do seem to think that not much will come of these arrests. hope we are all wrong.

[lotty]

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=91422d04-e28e-4837-9ee9-349aee9c5e59&p=1
Crown seeks joint polygamy trial
Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, February 09, 2009
Charges of practising polygamy against fundamentalist Mormon leaders from Bountiful have been amended to allow the Crown to try the two men at the same time rather than in separate trials.

[lotty]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Life/Accused+polygamist+looking+legal+from/1330684/story.html
Accused polygamist looking for legal aid from B.C.

Winston Blackmore is also trying to get his passport back

By Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun

Blackmore has indicated that for economic reasons he needs his bail conditions changed. Both Oler and Blackmore had to forfeit their passports and agree not to travel outside the country. Blackmore even asked Utah Attorney-General Mark Shurtleff for help in getting his passport back. Shurtleff wisely declined.



JMO...how interesting.

[walton]

I like Daphne.

Why do you suppose that Winston needs to get into the states?

I know he has a trucking business but he can hire someone to bring those loads down. If all his trucks are registered and his drivers have everything in tow, there is just no reason for taking his show on the road.

I love the Canadians but Sorry Canada I think Winston should stay put.

[walton]

Teen allegedly kidnapped from Mexican community
Ransom » $1 million sought from Colonia LeBaron family
By Brooke Adams

The family of a teenager allegedly kidnapped from Colonia LeBaron says it has refused to pay $1 million ransom demanded by his abductors, instead launching a mass appeal to government officials for help rescuing him and protecting the town.

Eric LeBaron, 16, was taken from the family's ranch in the mountains above the town, established decades ago by an exiled polygamist from Utah, on Saturday at gunpoint by five masked men, said Benjamin LeBaron, an older brother, in a telephone interview. The kidnappers allowed a younger brother to return to their father, Joel LeBaron Jr. Since then, they have contacted the family several times threatening to kill the boy if the ransom is not paid.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12291792

[walton]

Very interesting read. At the age of 17 Herber was almost kidnapped twice. Also interesting is the repeated history of members in these cults.

http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/testimonies/heberlebarontestimony.htm

[walton]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Nov-02-Sun-2003/news/22438763.html

IN DEPTH: THE DYS-ORDER

Despite polygamous family's many financial holdings, some sister wives live like impoverished single mothers
By DAVE BERNS
Written in 2003

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff has vowed to end the physical and sexual abuse tied to polygamy.

"We are not going after polygamy. We are going after crimes being committed in polygamous societies," said Shurtleff, who has polygamous ancestors.

Lu Ann's ex-husband, Jeremy, pled guilty Thursday to incest for his relationship with the then-teenage girl. He was 24 at the time. According to the terms of a plea bargain, the third-degree felony will be reduced to a misdemeanor if Jeremy Kingston successfully completes probation. Prosecutors have agreed to not seek a prison sentence of more than a year. Sentencing is scheduled for Jan. 5.

Shurtleff's office aggressively pursued the case after the freshman attorney general learned of the physical, social and sexual abuse of teenage wives through meetings with social activists and former child brides, including Lu Ann Kingston, whom he characterizes as highly credible.

"It just bothers me. I don't know why there haven't been efforts in the past. I'm not going to sit back knowing these crimes and abuses have been committed," Shurtleff said.


Here is a list of the Kingston wives along with the number of children each woman had back in 2003.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Nov-02-Sun-2003/photos/11polyg.jpg

6 years ago this was written. Six years of watching the victim list grow.

[walton]

Police: Pair attacked Gardner, left him to die

By KATHRYN MARCHOCKI
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
Wednesday, Mar. 4, 2009

A pair of convicted felons last month ambushed former Manchester businessman Richard J. Gardner aboard his boat in the Florida Keys, where he was left to die inside a locked cabin, Florida authorities said yesterday.

Jonathan L. LeBaron, 32, of Salt Lake City, Utah, is charged with first-degree premeditated murder in the Feb. 10 slaying of Gardner, 57.

LeBaron and his girlfriend, Kristena Whitmore, 40, of Oregon, have been held in a Salt Lake County jail since they were arrested at a Midvale, Utah motel on Feb. 21.


http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Police%3A+Pair+attacked+Gard ner%2C+left+him+to+die&articleId=ed2146cf-cfdf-48e7-bfc7-5130540bcd0d


LeBarons girlfriend Kristena Whitmore said she advertised on Craigslist.

more info here:http://www.keysso.net/pio/crimereports/year_2009/homicide%20warrant%20for%20release.pdf

[walton]

Trent Nelson over at the Salt Lake tribune takes us there. Here is a picture of Willie in the middle of a smiling crowd in front of the courthouse at a UEP hearing.



http://166.70.44.68/blogs/photo/2008/11/flds-at-uep-hearing/

What I want to know is that same crowd smiling?

Are they still talking?

Do people have a right to the property even though they signed an agreement with Rulon/Warren/Rod?

Could they get their monies back?

What if no one has a receipt?

Is Willies house up for grabs as well?

Should Bruce Wisan be allowed to lease the property? Sell the property? Sell it to who? The neighbor next door?

Is the YFZ part of the UEP?

[walton]

I wonder if any or all of these LeBarons are somehow related?

A Cedar City man has been arrested in connection with the pipe bombings that took place in the early spring.

Aaron Benjamin LeBaron, 19, was arrested Friday and charged with two counts of detonating a pipe bomb, both first-degree felonies, and two additional felony counts of criminal mischief. Other arrests are possible, police said.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20050511/ai_n14622826/?tag=untagged

I believe they are still looking for JACQUELINE TARSA LeBARON

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/cei/lebaron_jt.htm

[juliekan]

:seeya:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705301436,00.html

Judge may schedule new trial in murder case

Third District Judge Royal Hansen said he will decide by June 10 whether to schedule a new trial or sentence Parley Jeffs Dutson.

Defense attorneys say Dutson deserves a new trial because one female juror did not disclose during jury selection that she had been raped at age 15.

Defense attorney McCaye Christianson told the judge Monday it was "highly unlikely" this juror would have served on the jury if she had disclosed that she had been the victim of a crime.

[juliekan]

oops, did I post on the wrong thread...too late to delete...will just repost on other thread.

[walton]

Sources in Mexico tell 3TV that the son of one of the most famous polygamist families has been kidnapped in Chihuahua.

Eric LeBaron, 16, was recently kidnapped near the little Mexican village that bears his family's name, Colonial LeBaron.

According to Eric's older brother, Benjamin LeBaron, Eric was abducted by a group of heavily armed men. Those men are now demanding a $1 million ransom.


http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/phoenix-local-news-050409-polygamy-kidnapping.1ba32644.html

Brooke posted on her blog: A state prosecutor in Chihuahua, Mexico, told The Salt Lake Tribune today a special police unit that investigates kidnappings has been assigned to the case of Eric LeBaron but there are no results yet and the investigation remains ongoing.

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

[walton]

The author Susan Ray Schmidt has/had a sister married to Joel LeBaron Jr. the father of the missing boy.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=Susan%20Ray+Schmidt

[walton]

This is an old article but there is LOTS of info in here.


ERVIL'S FOLLOWERS MURDER ROUTINELY
IN 20 YEARS, 18 EX-ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN SLAIN OR REPORTED MISSING
By Lee Davidson, Staff Writer
Published: Tuesday, June 28, 1988


http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/8620/ERVILS-FOLLOWERS-MURDER-ROUTINELY-IN-20-YEARS-18-EX-ASSOCIATES-HAVE-BEEN-SLAIN-OR-REPORTED-MISSING.html

[walton]

According to some of the articles that have come out about the missing teen there are some things that are missing.

Who are the parents?

Where did the 5 masked men come into the picture and take the boys? Where the two boys alone or where they with a group of people?

Where did the 5 men release the one? Why did they release one and keep one? It isn't like they aren't calling them. They've been in contact.

Where they driving a vehicle or were they walking?

[walton]

This was written in 2006

Ervil realized the game was up. He gathered his henchmen around him and revealed that God wanted blood atonement for the false prophet.

"We are going to blow him up like a balloon," he railed, according to Anderson.

The men bided their time for a couple of months before paying Simons a last and fatal visit. On the drive out to Simon's ranch, Ervil's goons stopped by a gardening store to buy pickaxes, shovels and a bag of chemicals that hasten the deterioration of human flesh. They stopped again to dig a coffin-sized hole in the desert hills.

Simons knew they were coming - one of Ervil's emissaries, Lloyd Sullivan, had called on him a few days a before, claiming he now believed Simons was the true prophet after a conversation he'd had with some Indian chiefs. The chiefs had been searching for the white prophet who would lead them to salvation for a long time, the emissary said. Simons was ecstatic.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy506.html

[walton]

Kidnapped boy from polygamous family returned home
By Ben Winslow
Deseret News


A 16-year-old boy from the LeBaron polygamous family kidnapped in rural Mexico has been returned home, apparently safe.

Family members confirmed to the Deseret News late Saturday night that Eric LeBaron was released on Saturday, a week after he was abducted at gunpoint by masked men near Colonia LeBaron.

"The kid told his parents that they didn't hurt him, they treated him good," said Irene Spencer, who is the aunt of Eric LeBaron's father, Joel LeBaron Jr. "They let him go and he walked for four hours before he could find someone to help him phone home. They have him, he's safe."



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705302588/Kidnapped-boy-from-polygamous-family-returned-home.html

[texski]

are these people who have been living in mexico for generations american citizens?? i am sure you who keep track of these polygamists know this, but i dont.
glad the young man was not injured. imo he was returned because of too much publicity and pressure on the police.
how do they make a living??? farming??? if not mexican citizens they cannot have jobs there can they?? do they have a church building on this compound?? are any of the people legally married???
where can i go to get this kind of information?? i am very curious, i grew up in the mexican/texas border towns , a long time ago, but still have some relatives there. i emailed them and they dont know anything about this group.

[walton]

I don't think we've heard the whole story.

I don't think we will hear the whole story.

[walton]

http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/index3.html

Mike Watkiss visits with Eric LeBaron and learns the details concerning the how the kidnapping took place and some of what took place while he was held captive.


I personally think there is more that we are not hearing.

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6845389
Former LDS temple president kidnapped in Mexico
June 16th, 2009 @ 10:25pm
By Ben Winslow


The former president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' temple in Chihuahua, Mexico, has been kidnapped.

Sources confirmed to KSL NewsRadio late Tuesday that Meredith Romney was abducted from his ranch property nar Janos. Romney, a distant relative of former Salt Lake Olympics chief and one-time presidential candidate Mitt Romney, was abducted Monday afternoon.

The U.S. State Department, the FBI and Mexican authorities are working jointly on the investigation.

Romney's nephew, professional bull-rider Rocky McDonald told Professional Bull Riders in an article posted on ESPN.com that masked gunmen shot out the tires of Romney's truck.

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705311231/Kidnap-victim-freed-in-Mexico.html
Kidnap victim freed in Mexico
Family of ex-temple president paid his abductors a ransom
By Ethan Thomas

After family members paid a ransom, kidnappers on Wednesday released a former LDS temple president who played a role in then-church President Gordon B. Hinckley's plan to build smaller temples — a plan that launched an extraordinary construction program to double the number of the faith's holiest buildings in 39 months.

Meredith Irvin Romney was kidnapped Monday afternoon while leaving his ranch outside of Janos, Mexico, with his wife and grandson. A vehicle cut off Romney's truck, and gunmen shot out the truck's tires.

[disneyfreak]

Very interesting links as I'm in the middle of reading Susan Ray Schmidt's book. Thanks for posting the most recent update, Walton.

[walton]

Very interesting links as I'm in the middle of reading Susan Ray Schmidt's book. Thanks for posting the most recent update, Walton.

disneyfreak your nic made me smile. I've read Susans book His Favorite Wife. Good book! and lots of info.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12769262

Benjamin LeBaron, who called for more protection from the Mexican government in May after his younger brother was abducted from Colonia LeBaron, was taken by intruders and killed with another man early Tuesday.

[walton]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/colonial-lebaron-news-070709-lebaron-murder.18fe6e6f.html

Benjamin Franklin LeBaron Ray, at the age of thirty two years old, and Luis Carlos Widmar Stubbs, at the age of twenty eight, joined the S.O.S. Chihuahua, and Benji was the foremost leader of this movement. He helped organize committees, and worked with all the communities in the northwest quarter of Chihuahua to put a stop to kidnapping and extortion.


Does this mean that Benjamins legal last name is Ray?

and Luis's legal name is Stubbs?


Luis and Benjamin were taken up the road about four miles, where they were stood up and shot, execution style, and above them was placed a sign that stated, “To the LeBaron leaders who did not believe and still do not believe, and to Clary Jones. This is for the twenty five men from Nicolas Bravo. Atte. El General”.




I've been all over the net trying to figure this one out. I just can't wrap my brain around the thought the reasons why people are doing this.

Money? Drugs for a high? Revenge because the 25 got busted?

[walton]

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/16487/#298207

Check out the comments.

Why would the LeBarons threaten anyone from Centennial Park?

[texski]

from reading the article about the two killings, i am assuming that they can still claim american because their parents were from america?? and also claim to be mexican because they were born in mexico?? something is wrong with those sentences, but that is the only way i know off that they could be citizens of both countries. i know that americans are not allowed to own land in mexico or work there, maybe they threatened to come back to utah and take back some of that land, that would be fun to watch.

[walton]

Am I missing something with this story?

Eric LeBaron and his brother (Ben?) were kidnapped by a group that hid in the mountains. They let Erics brother go and held Eric for 7 days. Blindfolded him, kept him on the move, made sure he got a little to eat and then set him free after 7 days unharmed.

After he had been home for a few days the family and others approached the govt. and asked for help with the "kidnappings" in the area.

A month later a group storms Benjamins house not only shooting into the home but brought an axe to break down the door. They then take Benjamin and his brother-in-law out into the country side and shot them and left their bodies there with a note.

Not to sound cold but why did they have to take the two men out in the country? Why not just do it at the house?

Where they after information?

Why would this group come after Benjamin? Why has the LeBaron family been targeted not once but twice?

This is messed up.

[walton]

from reading the article about the two killings, i am assuming that they can still claim american because their parents were from america?? and also claim to be mexican because they were born in mexico?? something is wrong with those sentences, but that is the only way i know off that they could be citizens of both countries. i know that americans are not allowed to own land in mexico or work there, maybe they threatened to come back to utah and take back some of that land, that would be fun to watch.

But what/who would the connection be? Johnsons?

[walton]

Several thousand people attended services for Benjamin LeBaron, 32, and Luis Widmar, 29, in Colonia LeBaron, a community founded by a relative who moved from Utah to Mexico in the 1920s to escape a crackdown on plural marriage. The crowd filled the town's tiny church and spilled into the surrounding yard and street, a cousin told The Salt Lake Tribune , as police and army officers stood guard.

Chihuahua Gov. José Reyes Baeza Terrazas attended the private family viewing before the funeral, Brent LeBaron Jr. said.

"He was very passionate and saying he was there for us, that he was going to push for everything to continue helping us, and that this might be the [catalyst] for getting better resources to attack the problem quickly," said Brent LeBaron, Benjamin's cousin.

Mexican media quoted Baeza on Thursday saying the United States FBI would assist in the murder investigation because of the men's dual citizenship. And Mexico's attorney general's office said it would take over the investigation, calling it a high-impact crime.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_12804715

Brooke clears up a few things on her blog. http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/