Sane Or Insane?

[warhorse46]

http://www.kare11.com/news/whatsup/whatsup_article.aspx?storyid=535258&catid=333

[lawfan03]

something is wrong with him, clearly

[incidentally]

Wait a minute, did he pluck out both eyes in separate incidences?

:scared:

[daHawg]

http://www.kare11.com/news/whatsup/whatsup_article.aspx?storyid=535258&catid=333
What do you think? :blink:

[interested]

No matter how you look at this, he's point, blank nuts.

That said, however, the sooner he gets the d/p the better. I can't think of one single reason to keep the guy alive and bleeding the taxpayers dry. There simply comes a point in time where these kinds of monsters need to be put away once and for all for the betterment of a sane society. I always worry that some freak like this could escape.

MHO

I agree with Mr Unknown, this guy is crazy like a fox & this is a ploy to avoid his sentence. But, given he's now completely blind, having plucked out one eye while awaiting trial and now the remaining one, I'm not real concerned he's going to escape. Even if he did he's not going to be much of the threat to anyone.

None of that is to suggest he shouldn't meet his maker post haste compliments of the state. He's sane, this is his last ditch effort to avoid paying for his gruesome crimes. JMHO

[kitty1182]

http://www.kare11.com/news/whatsup/whatsup_article.aspx?storyid=535258&catid=333

I say hurry up and let him meet his Maker..imo

[warhorse46]

Wait a minute, did he pluck out both eyes in separate incidences?

:scared:



Two separate incidents.

[bearwds]

If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out.

This olde saying jumps at me as I read this story. Clearly insane by actions and deeds.

What would it take for folks to see that..??

Perhaps the question discussed should be if we as a society, condones killing the insane or disabled..??


bearwds

[warhorse46]

What do you think? :blink:



I think he certainly has mental illness & quite possibly could be psychotic. But apparently he could understand the charges against him & participate in his defense which are two criteria that must be met to be deemed competent to stand trial.

[EverGreen]

If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out.

This olde saying jumps at me as I read this story. Clearly insane by actions and deeds.

What would it take for folks to see that..??

Perhaps the question discussed should be if we as a society, condones killing the insane or disabled..??


bearwds

Texas has one of the most restrictive insanity defenses in the nation. It is rarely used and almost never successful.

[EverGreen]

Here is a better article about the case.
http://www.heralddemocrat.com/PrinterFriendly/Thomas-conviction-upheld-by-state-court

[jewel6]

That would hurt!:ohmy:

[lawfan03]

For legal purposes, insanity and competency are two different issues, as Warhorse pointed out. Competency has a number of criteria that need to be met in order for a defendant's competency to stand trial to be determined.

[whitedove007]

He's just trying to get out of the DP! He's sane he may have mental problems but he's not insane!

[Kara]

Texas has one of the most restrictive insanity defenses in the nation. It is rarely used and almost never successful.
Deanna Laney was found NGBROI in Texas and so was Andrea Yates in her retrial.

With that said, this guy is obviously nutso...but that doesn't mean he is legally insane. I would have to know a lot more to know if he meets the legal definition of insanity.

[EverGreen]

Deanna Laney was found NGBROI in Texas and so was Andrea Yates in her retrial.

With that said, this guy is obviously nutso...but that doesn't mean he is legally insane. I would have to know a lot more to know if he meets the legal definition of insanity.

That's why I said almost never. :smile:

[warhorse46]

I don't think it's necessary for any society to worry about someone who cut the hearts out of his victims, one of them a baby. Really, I don't.

He killed a four year old, a 13 month old, and a woman. Then cut their hearts out and according to him, threw them away, but I doubt it. Anyone who'd swallow his own eyeball, assuming that's what he did rather than flush it, isn't about to throw 3 trophy hearts away. If only he would have ripped his own heart out...

Insane or not, there's nothing redeeming about him and I see no reason to continue with his care and feeding. Just get rid of him.

Normally I'm a pretty hard sell for the DP, but not in this case. As I've gotten older, I realize there's no help, either psychological or otherwise for monsters like this and the sooner they get sent to their maker, the better.

Seriously, we put rabid dogs down and I personally think he's worse than any sick animal could ever be.


There is a man from my city that is schizophrenic. He was diagnosed years before & on medication but like most schizophrenics he started feeling better & thought he did not need the medication. He murdered his mother, cut her heart out, laid it on the bed beside her along with other parts of her body he cut off. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity & sent to the state facility for the criminally insane. With proper medication & treatment he gets much better so the doctors want to release him back into society every year @ his evaluation. The court maintained custody of him so the request must go before the court & be ruled upon. Every year the DA & this man's family show up @ the hearing to present their case as to why he should not be released. So far the court has kept him locked up but one of these years he could be released. Scary thought.

[Lavenia]

There is a man from my city that is schizophrenic. He was diagnosed years before & on medication but like most schizophrenics he started feeling better & thought he did not need the medication. He murdered his mother, cut her heart out, laid it on the bed beside her along with other parts of her body he cut off. He was found not guilty by reason of insanity & sent to the state facility for the criminally insane. With proper medication & treatment he gets much better so the doctors want to release him back into society every year @ his evaluation. The court maintained custody of him so the request must go before the court & be ruled upon. Every year the DA & this man's family show up @ the hearing to present their case as to why he should not be released. So far the court has kept him locked up but one of these years he could be released. Scary thought.

We're obviously in the same city. :wink:

[warhorse46]

We're obviously in the same city. :wink:



This the man you know of?

http://tinyurl.com/7enca6

[Lavenia]

This the man you know of?

http://tinyurl.com/7enca6

That would be him! :seeya: (We rode out Rita and Ike together on the boards. (You and I, not Millet and I, :scared:))

[Amy]

Those who act "appropriately" in a controlled setting (and it doesn't sound like he acts appropriately) won't necessarily do so once they are let out. Like the Mr Roberts says, the problem will be, will he TAKE his medications unsupervised? And, I don't mean by people who will check on him a couple of times a week, for Pete's sake!!!!

He should NEVER, EVER get out. IMO

[Resty]

No matter how you look at this, he's point, blank nuts.

That said, however, the sooner he gets the d/p the better. I can't think of one single reason to keep the guy alive and bleeding the taxpayers dry. There simply comes a point in time where these kinds of monsters need to be put away once and for all for the betterment of a sane society. I always worry that some freak like this could escape.

MHO

Im with you on this one Spyder. WHAT possible redeeming quality does this S-o-B have?? He has to be insane to have murdered his family.....and to have done the whole eyeball thing. WHO CARES.......he's worthless....he cant be rehab'ed....he serves NO useful purpose and never will. Just get on with the DP. (he is insane AND disabled now and it still doesnt matter.....drop him before_____)

[Jayne]

http://www.kare11.com/news/whatsup/whatsup_article.aspx?storyid=535258&catid=333

You know, warhorse, you bring up some really controversial "stuff"...and it is indeed interesting. Then I read of those who love Shakespeare as much as I do..about "plucking out the eye(s)"...then you watch Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves...or Braveheart...that is what they did back then..medeival...crude...stupid (maybe?)...if they did it to themselves, yes..but it was a Court Procedure...it was the punishment of the Lords...Poor Cordelia...King Lear..

I could "wax" psychology here...WHY did he pluck out his eye..then ingest it? Man...were I the prosecutor there...I'd take that to the hilt..IF I even could. It speaks volumes to me...as a former one of those (prosecutors) and as a human being..

I'm sure he wasn't of the caracture See No Evil..or was he? Or silence of the lamb..eating his own flesh? Or Shylock?...a pound of flesh

I don't know...people are strange...they deal with their demons in any way they can or see fit..or that gets them "media" I guess.


I guess..if he is missing the eye..he cannot see? NO..he sees perfectly well...in his soul.

jmo

j

[bearwds]

[QUOTE=Jayne

"I don't know...people are strange...they deal with their demons in any way they can or see fit.."<<SNIP-SNIP>>
j[/QUOTE]

***********************************

And some of those ways can be quite disturbing.

I've worked with many patients that have been self-destructive. Dealing with a mind that retreats to self-mutalation can be quite frustrating.

Burning oneself with a cigarette is quite common as well as genital mutilation. Hair pulling and ingesting non-food items are some others.

Eye gouging is pretty rare. Doing it twice, rarer.

I don't agree with the McNaughton rule. There are so many other dimensions to mental illness that a "one size fits all" approach is unfair to some really disturbed people.

I think this guy is severely disturbed and should never see freedom ever.
Killing him only allows some people to feel better and is that the standard we want for killing..??

I know society has some real issues with this.


bearwds

[warhorse46]

***********************************

And some of those ways can be quite disturbing.

I've worked with many patients that have been self-destructive. Dealing with a mind that retreats to self-mutalation can be quite frustrating.

Burning oneself with a cigarette is quite common as well as genital mutilation. Hair pulling and ingesting non-food items are some others.

Eye gouging is pretty rare. Doing it twice, rarer.

I don't agree with the McNaughton rule. There are so many other dimensions to mental illness that a "one size fits all" approach is unfair to some really disturbed people.

I think this guy is severely disturbed and should never see freedom ever.
Killing him only allows some people to feel better and is that the standard we want for killing..??

I know society has some real issues with this.


bearwds


I absolutely agree, the McNaughton rule is severely antiquated. It is the same as it was 150 years ago & does not fit today.

[Lavenia]

***********************************

And some of those ways can be quite disturbing.

I've worked with many patients that have been self-destructive. Dealing with a mind that retreats to self-mutalation can be quite frustrating.

Burning oneself with a cigarette is quite common as well as genital mutilation. Hair pulling and ingesting non-food items are some others.

Eye gouging is pretty rare. Doing it twice, rarer.

I don't agree with the McNaughton rule. There are so many other dimensions to mental illness that a "one size fits all" approach is unfair to some really disturbed people.

I think this guy is severely disturbed and should never see freedom ever.
Killing him only allows some people to feel better and is that the standard we want for killing..??

I know society has some real issues with this.


bearwds


ITA! I worked in corrections as an RN, and the amount of severe mental illness is awesome! TONS of self-mutilation. Guys would cram anything they could into their urethras, cut their skin so bad, that the scar tissue from previous cutting would act almost as a self-sealing tire would. They would beat their heads against a wall until passing out, stab themselves in the lungs, you name it. This guys actions doesn't surprise me a bit. The prisons have become the new institution for the mentally ill, IMO.

[bearwds]

[QUOTE=Lavenia..."ITA! I worked in corrections as an RN.." ..<<SNIP-SNIP>>[/QUOTE]

*********************************

Hiya Lavenia... Looks like we got slid over here from OC. Oh well, easy landing but this neighborhood not as active.

Totally agree that the penal system is the "new" mental health system.

Important to look at history. Back in 1972 Reagon. who was Gov. of CA., closed the mental hospitals and effectively dumped thousands of folks on the street with promised follow-up services. They forgot to follow-up. Political choice.

Locked up in the "Special Housing Unit" of every prison, are folks that would respond to treatment. They are there because they are a danger to self and others as well as being prey on mainline.

CA is now under a "Special Master" to treat the MI's and upgrade medical services that border on 3rd world.

An area that should be addressed is "forced medication". If a client is so out of touch he/she is psychotic, they still may refuse medications. The problem there of course, is if they are so disturbed, they will refuse meds and continue downward spiral.

Thoughts..??


bearwds
SLPT (retired)

[Lavenia]

Hey Bearwds, I agree completely with all that you wrote! I just don't know about the forced medication. I know I have been frustrated to no end knowing that my patients life would be a 180 from what it is if they only took their meds... In regular, non-psychiatric medicine, you can refuse treatment until you become unconscious and then medical personnel can swarm you and give you medical care, taking the unconsciousness as "implied consent". Maybe there needs to be a similar line drawn where a mentally ill person no longer knows where their best interest lies? Then again I see a slippery slope to all kinds of abuses of that so I just don't know. It's a sad, sad, thing. I know the prisons are not in any way, shape or form equipped to handle these inmates properly. I also think many of these inmates would not be in prison if they received free world psychiatric health care.

Some of those inmates have my empathy as they almost had no chance but to wind up where they did with their family histories and lack of psychiatric support later, IMO.