Jan. 2 Part II

[magnolia]

Actually, I think a lot of posters wouldn't be at all surprised about who is behind some of the "newbie" nics. It's amazing what you can tell from writing styles.

Personally, I'm really tired of the kind of lumping together that you just did. I think it's fine when people disagree and I'm happy to read anyone's opinion as long as it seems informed. Oh, and as long as it doesn't end with snippy little slaps like how seeing the Anthonys experiencing a hellish situation must make so many people happy.

The smug self-righteousness does me in, but that's just jmo.


I agree with you about reading informed opinions. Seeing something from another's perspective can stretch what you already think or feel.

Just so you know the people who are I lumped together are the ones who should be classified together. There ARE posters who devalue the opinions of others and feel like they don't believe in this public forum. They state that the opposing opinions are due to lack of case-knowledge. So if I lump posters together, it's because I feel like they have made similiar statements.

Of course, there are many posters who keep an open mind. Personally, I appreciate the common sense, interesting ones.

[MerriMent]

these are the makings of parental guilt that would make Cindy now defend Casey to the nth degree, IMO

Yep....I've thought Cindy's actions from the very beginning were driven out of her guilt for failing to protect Caylee.

[legalmania]

she said they smelled like the car

Sounds like obstruction to me. She was trying to cover up the smell of a dead body, which is not easy. I wonder if there was grass stains and dirt on those pants also?

[gaelicpeas]

I highly doubt that Casey's friends would be checking out Cindy's space, I agree. Also I taught Sunday School to those kids I mentioned from the time they were in 5th grade through college. As for Cindy's comments on myspace. I don't think she knew Caylee was dead at that point. IMO she was just frustrated that Casey had taken her away from them and wouldn't let Cindy speak to Caylee on the phone.

I do think she was trying to reach Casey, although I may disagree on her motivation.

And I still say you must be a cool mama! I love it when multiple generations are involved in each other's and their friends' lives. Sad, though, that this did not appear to be the case with the Anthony family, with the exception of a couple of Casey's friends (Ryan and the young woman who was at their house for one of the early jailhouse calls - sorry, forgot her name!).

[dref99]

It just struck me and my hinckey dinkey meter dinged. You might very well be right and I might be reading too much into it. Being a grandmother myself, I supported the Anthony's for a long time until I saw the videos of Lee acting like a baffoon with the girl and her sign, Cindy with the hammer in her hand acting like a baffoon and George screaming about the dead body in the back of his daughter's car not being his granddaughter and acting like a baffoon.

If I find out that these people knew and carried on this kidnapping ruse so they could raise false charity money, I am going to write to Barack Obama himself and tell him to DO SOMETHING!

I have often used the term "my angel" when talking to my daughter - I don't see it as assuming death in any way shape or form.

I would also assume that BO has many many things of much more importance to concentrate on when he takes office.

jmo

[?noanswer]

I imagine LE has a lot more than we are privy to. Grand Jury didn't take long to reach a decision.

At first, I thought CA was possibly guilty. She seems just as likely to do something "out of spite" as Casey. But Casey is the one sitting in jail waiting for trial, so LE must have a lot more we haven't seen yet.

I'm thinking that GA contributed to that fast return of an indictment. JMO

[gaelicpeas]

And check this out.. This is interesting - previously brought up first by 5boxersmom here:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=12605526&postcount=986



Casey (imo) replied back to Cindy's myspace blog - with her own myspace blog on July 7th.. Four days after Cindy's with the "Diary of Days" blog:

“On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.”

Cindy had Casey's blog bookmarked on her work email account. Sort of strange.... isn't it? ETA ~ hold up.. it was bookmarked on July 2nd? From Cindys work? I am so confused.. I thought Casey didn't write Diary of Days until July 7th, why would that poem be bookmarked on July 2nd?

Do you happen to know if that was made up by Casey or quoted from some other work? It is odd to me the way these two talk to each other in such poetic (Casey), flowery (Cindy) language. But maybe it is just me....

[bchand]

Did Cindy ever say what was on those pants that she felt so compelled to wash them right away?

Because they took on the smell from the car.

[legalmania]

Didn't she say everything in the car smelled like the odor in the trunk?

So I'm thinking she washed them because they smelled like "death" or whatever term you'd like to use.

My mother would have done the same thing....not trying to obstruct, but because she's anal....same with my dad and cleaning the car.

That's just the way they are.....and that is completely different than them intentionally doing something to destroy the evidence.

Yes but if your parents had a missing baby wouldn't they wait and ask LE is it alright if I wash these or can I wash the car? You can't disturb a crime scene.

[MissouriGMom]

Wow, I haven't seen that. Would be interesting to know how THAT poster would be treated on here, not believing Casey was the murderer. Yikes! :ohmy:

Hi Savannah! This is probably the first case that I've followed that everyone seems to be in agreement that the person charged in the case is guilty, at least in some manner. I think she is indeed guilty, and she alone.

[daHawg]

I do think she was trying to reach Casey, although I may disagree on her motivation.

And I still say you must be a cool mama! I love it when multiple generations are involved in each other's and their friends' lives. Sad, though, that this did not appear to be the case with the Anthony family, with the exception of a couple of Casey's friends (Ryan and the young woman who was at their house for one of the early jailhouse calls - sorry, forgot her name!).
I think she was trying to get a message to Casey as well. Also this is the same day that Cindy went to Universal to find Casey and Caylee and also the same day that Casey was at a nightclub with friends when Lee called her and she told her friends she had to get out of there before Lee got there. A whole lot of crappola went down on the 3rd and I know we don't have that whole story.

[PuffDragon]

There may have been errors in judgement in their house. They may have coddled and enabled etc....

But there are many other parents who coddle and enable and spoil..luckily they did not have the misfortune of having children that are missing a little something upstairs. I think Casey's issues are mostly tied into her psyche..not what she was or was not given. Don't you?

I agree with you Calla. Sociopaths are born, not made, IMO, but probably made worse by parenting that doesn't address their real needs. My feeling is the needs are seldom addressed because sociopaths are so good at camouflage that society can't identify them until it's too late for anything to help..

[joshgabe1]

If it was placed in the garbage bag and not really exposed until much later, after the animals got to it. LP thinks the child was double bagged- in a bag that split in the trunk and got the ooze/stain out on the trunk floor and on Casey's pants and then another bag used and duct taped.

Some theories floating on the MBs is that she also used one of those vac bags on her that would give more on an airtight seal then the garbage bag to conceal the clear bag.

From the lab tests- it appears that the body was already contained in something and not getting exposure to ambient air in the trunk.

That's why her purchases would be interesting to note if she did purchase anything that is pretty air tight and water proof.

But LE did take it into evidence.

imo

Thanks. That does make sense.

[SavannahStar]

Didn't she say everything in the car smelled like the odor in the trunk?

So I'm thinking she washed them because they smelled like "death" or whatever term you'd like to use.

My mother would have done the same thing....not trying to obstruct, but because she's anal....same with my dad and cleaning the car.

That's just the way they are.....and that is completely different than them intentionally doing something to destroy the evidence.

This is what I think some are just NOT getting.

Because the Anthonys are so "hated" .....oh and they are, they are.....some can equate it with purposely destroying evidence I think.

[bchand]

Actually, I think a lot of posters wouldn't be at all surprised about who is behind some of the "newbie" nics. It's amazing what you can tell from writing styles.

Personally, I'm really tired of the kind of lumping together that you just did. I think it's fine when people disagree and I'm happy to read anyone's opinion as long as it seems informed. Oh, and as long as it doesn't end with snippy little slaps like how seeing the Anthonys experiencing a hellish situation must make so many people happy.

The smug self-righteousness does me in, but that's just jmo.

Thank you joolz. It's what does me in also.

[8BellesFan]

Everybody - Nobody Lyrics by Jackie Lomax


Everybody knows – nobody cares
Nobody cries
Everybody looks – nobody sees
No-one will open their eyes
Everybody runs – nobody wanna help
Left with an empty heart

And both of us thinking we’re better
Than anything else on this earth
If we could just live to the letter
We could maybe find out what it’s worth
What it’s worth

Everybody waits – nobody’s ever in
No-one to answer the phone
And everybody wants – nobody wants to give
You’re taking more than your share
Everybody lies – nobody speaks
No-one to tell the truth

Everybody knows, everybody looks
Everybody runs, everybody waits
Everybody wants, everybody lies
And in the end, everybody dies
Without even living

[gaelicpeas]

====================

I have never understood how someone could sit at a computer and write in their Myspace when their grandchild is missing. For crying out loud, couldnt their time have been better spent by getting off the puter and being out searching? Yeah....i could just see me sitting at a puter if my child was missing. The A's r all NUTS and self-centered. jmo

I sooooooooooo agree with this! It is one of the key points as to why I think this whole thing was a fraud. JMO

[bchand]

Yes but if your parents had a missing baby wouldn't they wait and ask LE is it alright if I wash these or can I wash the car? You can't disturb a crime scene.

And George, being ex-LE knew that.

He WARNED Cindy about her actions over and over.

[happy2bme]

Yes but if your parents had a missing baby wouldn't they wait and ask LE is it alright if I wash these or can I wash the car? You can't disturb a crime scene.


IMHO...LE should have been called ASAP when George opened the car at the tow yard. Of course I have never smelled a dead body but George has..........Seeing that he told LE that he thought it could have been Caylee or Casey...

[dref99]

just because something is unimportant to you doesn't mean it is unimportant to the rest of the world.

I think the "rest of the world" may need a definition here. Because something is of major interest on an internet crime message board, would not equate to any interest by "the rest of the world". I doubt the folks in the middle east, coping with war and survival on a minute by minute basis, or some of the folks in Africa unsure as to whether they will have any food to eat tomorrow would consider this at all - it is basically unimportant to most of the world outside of the area of the crime.

jmo

[8BellesFan]

This is what I think some are just NOT getting.

Because the Anthonys are so "hated" .....oh and they are, they are.....some can equate it with purposely destroying evidence I think.

I don't hate George and Cindy Anthony at all. I do feel that they told lies and did things to make Casey look better, like the Mother Of The Year that Cindy says she is. But hate....no.

[SavannahStar]

Hi Savannah! This is probably the first case that I've followed that everyone seems to be in agreement that the person charged in the case is guilty, at least in some manner. I think she is indeed guilty, and she alone.

Hi there! You're probably right in that observtion! And I so agree that Casey is guilty, alone.

But as far as family members......this sorta almost reminds me of the Lauterbach case where so many were convinced of Lauterbach's wife's culpability.....did you post on that case with me?

Most of the arguments here tend to be based on Cindy and George. :smile:

[Calla]

====================

I have never understood how someone could sit at a computer and write in their Myspace when their grandchild is missing. For crying out loud, couldnt their time have been better spent by getting off the puter and being out searching? Yeah....i could just see me sitting at a puter if my child was missing. The A's r all NUTS and self-centered. jmo

But at that time, her grand child was not "missing" as in kidnapped but was missing as in her angry selfish daughter had refused to let her see the child she had financially and emotionally raised for 2 yrs

[Dells]

I called my only grand daughter 'the little angel' sometimes...but most times I call her by her name...or say 'that little girl'

I think Cindy was trying to get Casey to read this online and I believe that was her only motive...

me? I write poetry to air my heartaches and let the tears stain the paper...I don't do it on myspace so no one can throw it back at me later..lol

I believe Cindy wrote this during the time she believed Casey was intentionally keeping Caylee from her...(she was right. casey was. because caylee was dead)

I agree. I think Cindy was trying to guilt Casey into letting her see Caylee. I don't think the thought that something terrible happened to Caylee crossed Cindy's mind until they got the car back from the impound lot. You can tell by her 911 calls that she is upset and frantic.

[dref99]

Well, I'm outta here for the night. I need some fresh air. The passive-agressive baiting is too childish and time-consumming to read thru..

Nite nite.........................:sleep:

Why not discuss the issues instead of making such comments about other posters? I haven't seen any "passive-aggressive baiting" - althought I probably need to discover if the term "passive-aggressive" is a valid use of the language and the words.


I see folks giving their opinions - some of which I don't agree with but I simply add my view to the mix. Works for me.

jmo

[PuffDragon]

Is no one reading the same guilt laced paragraph that I am. All I can see is finger pointing, Cindy trying to analyze her guilt by deciding what she was guilty of, and whole lot of drama. Guilt trip, after guilt trip- I swear I must be on another planet today IMO

No, I'm not. i see it as a desperate cry from a mother to her daughter because she can't make her listen any other way. Guilt trip, very likely, but directed at Casey, not at herself. "Please please please bring that baby back to me!" She really didn't understand what made Casey tick.

[*MoonRider*]

Why are you not more concerned about what could have happened to the car after the Anthonys called the police and they didn't take it away for almost a full day later, they could have done all sorts of stuff to it had they wanted. Ooops again for LE.

jmo

With all due respect LE was investigating a missing child case at the beginning, not a murder. They had no idea that Casey was such a liar. They were a little busy chasing the invisible nanny, invisible cell phone, invisible job, hoping to find poor Caylee. Casey told them she talked to Caylee on the 15th. No reason to be alarmed at that point until Casey's web of lies became apparent. If they would have taken the car early on you would probably be the first to say rush to judgement. G & C saying there was no Amber Alert makes me sick. Day 32 and you issue an alert. It may have been useful if the odious creature reported her missing within the first 24 hours. I hope they charge both of them for hindering and investigation and lying to the police the same thing that sent Casey to jail initially. Like Mother like daughter. They love so spout how much they are alike and I for one totally agree with them. JMO

[Reenbean]

Yep....I've thought Cindy's actions from the very beginning were driven out of her guilt for failing to protect Caylee.

100% agreed. Cindy is an RN, a "caregiver". What happened to her granddaughter, and the fate of her daughter now, is a huge blow to her as a Mom, Grandma, nurse, the core of the family. Guilt can make people do crazy things. The whole thing is very sad to see really. But again there's comes a point where ENOUGH is ENOUGH. And legal ramifications may help her get there.

[SavannahStar]

Actually, I think a lot of posters wouldn't be at all surprised about who is behind some of the "newbie" nics. It's amazing what you can tell from writing styles.

Personally, I'm really tired of the kind of lumping together that you just did. I think it's fine when people disagree and I'm happy to read anyone's opinion as long as it seems informed. Oh, and as long as it doesn't end with snippy little slaps like how seeing the Anthonys experiencing a hellish situation must make so many people happy.

The smug self-righteousness does me in, but that's just jmo.

I wouldn't be suprised at all who's behind the nics. What I find amazing is how many get banned. Hmmmmmm.

Smug self-righteousness you know is a matter of opinion. That's what I get out of all the posts about Cindy and George, many of which seem to imply it's all their fault that little girl is dead.

And if you don't see that, you're sure missing something, because it's there.

[8BellesFan]

I agree. I think Cindy was trying to guilt Casey into letting her see Caylee. I don't think the thought that something terrible happened to Caylee crossed Cindy's mind until they got the car back from the impound lot. You can tell by her 911 calls that she is upset and frantic.


the first call she was just pizzed off.

[i_pickle]

Well if you want to call it another planet? - I just call it a different point of view. Cindy was the mainstay of the family - financially and as a carer of Caylee and supporter of Casey.

I see the posting as a realisation (as her family had been saying for years) that it didn't matter how much she did for her daughter - the daughter would always want more & would never realise how much she cared.

Cindy felt guilty because after 22 years she called her daughter on her behaviour and the only response she got was Casey taking Caylee and leaving! I would be in anguish as well.

I think Cindy continues to blame herself for much of what happened & still cannot believe what Casey may have done. Trying to find alternative options is all she has left - and probably not for much longer.

jmoI would be in anguish too but I wouldn't post my anguish on myspace. She appears to be very immature, imo.

[aubrey04]

It's very chilling IMO. And just another rock in the mountain of CE against Casey. When you put all the pieces together it's a scary picture. Accident, maybe. Cover up, regardless? Oh yes. And for all the lies and months and months of hiding this IF indeed Caylee's death was accidental, well then I have no sympathy. Enough is enough.

I agree. :(

[gaelicpeas]

I think she was trying to get a message to Casey as well. Also this is the same day that Cindy went to Universal to find Casey and Caylee and also the same day that Casey was at a nightclub with friends when Lee called her and she told her friends she had to get out of there before Lee got there. A whole lot of crappola went down on the 3rd and I know we don't have that whole story.
True, July 3 was a significant day in many ways.

[MerriMent]

I wouldn't be suprised at all who's behind the nics. What I find amazing is how many get banned. Hmmmmmm.

Smug self-righteousness you know is a matter of opinion. That's what I get out of all the posts about Cindy and George, many of which seem to imply it's all their fault that little girl is dead.

And if you don't see that, you're sure missing something, because it's there.

You're right, it is there. I'm one of the posters who believes George and Cindy failed in their duty to protect Caylee.

[cloe23]

Didn't Cindy call LE the same day that she smelled a darn dead body in the car? Why didn't LE come get that car spot on?
At least come take a whiff?
At least tell the A's not to touch anything in the car?

[dvsone]

[/B]


Didn't anybody catch on to this? Why use "the little angel" and not "our little girl". The little angel implies "in heaven". Go ahead and hammer me. When was this written? I would like to know when these people actually knew this baby was deceased. What an odd choice of words.

hammer you for what?
and the dates on the post... july 3rd.

this is why the fight theory plays right..... something happened and words were tossed out there like bombs in iraq... and well that is why Cindy kept poking Casey. To get her to come in the light and fight. I think myspace fighting was typical for them.... much like my ex loves to annoy our kids on the myspace. Its weird.

[Mairi II]

This is what I think some are just NOT getting.

Because the Anthonys are so "hated" .....oh and they are, they are.....some can equate it with purposely destroying evidence I think.

Honestly, I would NOT even've washed them. I wouldn't want that stink in my washer. They would've gone in the garbage.

I've wondered if there is a possibility that they were actually discarded yet Cindy didn't feel she could tell LE that because it may appear she destroyed evidence. The "washing" was a bit more innocent-sounding, IMO. Regardless of what she did with them, I don't think it was sinister at the time she did it.

(By the way, OT, I apologize to the poster who I called a name. Uncalled for. My band camp vacation was deserved. I won't even attempt to rationalize it.... and it won't happen again.)

[MissouriGMom]

Hi there! You're probably right in that observtion! And I so agree that Casey is guilty, alone.

But as far as family members......this sorta almost reminds me of the Lauterbach case where so many were convinced of Lauterbach's wife's culpability.....did you post on that case with me?

Most of the arguments here tend to be based on Cindy and George. :smile:

I did post some on the Lauterbach case, but mostly lurked, as usual. I never thought the wife was invovled.

[gaelicpeas]

This is what I think some are just NOT getting.

Because the Anthonys are so "hated" .....oh and they are, they are.....some can equate it with purposely destroying evidence I think.

I think some of that comes from the Garrison stuff, where he says that Cindy said something to the effect of "I should have given them the dog's toothbrush". But that is JMO.

[happy2bme]

I wouldn't be suprised at all who's behind the nics. What I find amazing is how many get banned. Hmmmmmm.

Smug self-righteousness you know is a matter of opinion. That's what I get out of all the posts about Cindy and George, many of which seem to imply it's all their fault that little girl is dead.

And if you don't see that, you're sure missing something, because it's there.

OPINION'S What would our world be without them.

I wonder if Casey now feels remorse?

[SandyO]

I know they seem similar in the circumstantial evidence department but in my mind these cases are not similar at all. And I know where you are going with this, how can I feel this way about Casey's and that way about Scott's. And that's a valid point but I am not 100% ready to put Casey in jail LWOP or DP when I am not 100% sure this kid did not die of Casey's negligent parenting.

I have to readily admit that I had my doubts at the very beginning with Scott's until Amber and those recordings came on the scene. I also felt that OJ was being set up early on until I saw the pictures of his wife all beat up and heard the 911 call while he was beating down her door. When that one piece of evidence comes in and I will know it when I see it, then I'll be ready. Until then, I'm still asking for harder proof than what the State has so far.

Your sentiments are exactly what they will be looking for in prospective jurors -- and that is as it really should be. "Prove it to me". I can definitely side with you re the possibility that Caylee's death was actually an accident caused by Casey's negligence and carelessness ---but her actions since then (or lack of them) have destroyed any 'slack' she might have been given.

[gaelicpeas]

Everybody - Nobody Lyrics by Jackie Lomax

(respectfully snipped)


Thanks - that is close!

[i_pickle]

I don't hate the A's but I do think they immediately went into cover up mode for Casey. They experienced the smell of death and Caylee was missing. Both were professionals who admitted they knew and recognized that smell. Knowing that, why would they touch anything in the car?Especially George. Wasn't he a homicide detective at one time? If so, he had to know better.

Imo,there's a vast difference between "villifying" someone and finding some of their actions suspect.

[marshmallow]

I sooooooooooo agree with this! It is one of the key points as to why I think this whole thing was a fraud. JMO

I think at that point Cindy wasn't sure Caylee was dead. I think the back and forth guilt trips may have been every day-ish in Casa Anthony. I think Cindy and Casey regualrly went at it, with guilt trips, Caylee, George, money, and everything else as weapons. This my space was only one more weapon in the war of mom vs daughter.

in my opinion

[aubrey04]

Do you happen to know if that was made up by Casey or quoted from some other work? It is odd to me the way these two talk to each other in such poetic (Casey), flowery (Cindy) language. But maybe it is just me....

Well, I googled up some key phrases from Casey's "diary of days" and the only hits I get are to Casey's blog. So I am unsure.. It is a strange way to correspond to each other. I think they were playing a strange game with one another.

But it reminds me of how they interacted during the jail visits... and how Casey interacted w/Lee and George during their visits. Very bizarre.

[dvsone]

Well, dang. THAT's where the killing out of spite comes from? :confused: I had no idea.

Well, yeah, so, well, factual.


actually no, it came from Lee telling LE that Casey said something to him and part of the quote is "maybe because Im a spiteful b#%*!"

[8BellesFan]

Didn't Cindy call LE the same day that she smelled a darn dead body in the car? Why didn't LE come get that car spot on?
At least come take a whiff?
At least tell the A's not to touch anything in the car?

they brought the car home, cleaned it, and then George went to work while Cindy read some papers from the car to locate a friend of Casey's and enlist her help to go get Casey and Caylee. later that night is when Cindy called 911. the police came only to be given a grand tour of Casey's office and some random apartments. while Caylee is kidnapped and missing, Cindy goes through Casey's belongings brought from Tony's and got some cash and other items.

personally, I'd have been unconscious

[AnnInOhio]

Did you happen to bookmark that link? If so would you mind posting it. I dont know that Ive ever read them in their entirety.

/crossing fingers//

Sorry, it took me awhile to find them again. They are emails by Cindy's mom, brother Rick, her mom's sister and Cindy. They are kind of intermingled. I found it helpful to look at the dates and times to get the chronology in order. Enjoy!

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysetten/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2901-2950_Page_07.htm

[dref99]

I would be in anguish too but I wouldn't post my anguish on myspace. She appears to be very immature, imo.

I sure agree with that - I wouldn't post it on myspace either - but I do know folks who think differently - perhaps she thought it was the only way to contact her daughter, or the way to get Casy to understand her feelings?

jmo

[*MoonRider*]

I don't hate the A's but I do think they immediately went into cover up mode for Casey. They experienced the smell of death and Caylee was missing. Both were professionals who admitted they knew and recognized that smell. Knowing that, why would they touch anything in the car?

ITA This is for the Cindy sympathizers http://www.wftv.com/video/17334271/index.html

The murderess was inside while she was out on bail for the second time 8/29. If only she would have used the hammer on Casey. George & Cindy say they want the medias help, but call them maggots. The only maggots I know of were on poor Caylee who was down the street. Makes me sick. JMO

[gaelicpeas]

Hi there! You're probably right in that observtion! And I so agree that Casey is guilty, alone.

But as far as family members......this sorta almost reminds me of the Lauterbach case where so many were convinced of Lauterbach's wife's culpability.....did you post on that case with me?

Most of the arguments here tend to be based on Cindy and George. :smile:

I was on the Lauterbach board, and yes you were a firm believer that the wife was NOT involved. I do give you a lot of credit in standing firm in what you believe in despite what everyone else says.

I think SOME of the reasons why Cindy and George are discussed so much here is that we really haven't had much access to Casey since early on. JMO.

[dvsone]

Sorry, it took me awhile to find them again. They are emails by Cindy's mom, brother Rick, her mom's sister and Cindy. They are kind of intermingled. I found it helpful to look at the dates and times to get the chronology in order. Enjoy!

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysetten/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2901-2950_Page_07.htm


OMG thank you... Ive been reading and catching up after being away a couple hours!!

[SavannahStar]

OPINION'S What would our world be without them.

I wonder if Casey now feels remorse?

I'd be willing to bet she does. And not just because she got caught, either.

[Neffy]

Yes but if your parents had a missing baby wouldn't they wait and ask LE is it alright if I wash these or can I wash the car? You can't disturb a crime scene.

That ITA! I would be pointing out everything I'd found out of place or not right and wouldn't right it until I brought it to the attention of the people I called to help get my missing family member back.

[cloe23]

Anyone else remember in GA LE interview that he said that Cindy took those grey slacks to the cleaners? This has been bothering me.

[gaelicpeas]

But at that time, her grand child was not "missing" as in kidnapped but was missing as in her angry selfish daughter had refused to let her see the child she had financially and emotionally raised for 2 yrs

Actually, Calla, they set up the Caylee Missing myspace that night (July 15 or into the early morning of July 16).

[SavannahStar]

That's what I mean. Why use "the" angel and not "my angel" I'm just saying that is an odd word. But then again, with Cindy and her word soup, God only knows how to explain her or her family.

"Word soup".......love it. How appropriate! :lol:

[Mimi428]

Smug self-righteousness you know is a matter of opinion. That's what I get out of all the posts about Cindy and George, many of which seem to imply it's all their fault that little girl is dead.

And if you don't see that, you're sure missing something, because it's there.

I have read the kind of posts you are referring to, also. I can think of a lot of things the senior Anthonys have done that I would not agree with on a "my own personal parenting style" level, but I surely do not think it is their fault that Caylee is dead.

The bigger puzzle to me is in wondering how many folks hold the opinion that the reason they don't have a child who is a cold-blooded murderer, they aren't in the position that George & Cindy are in, is because of their personal parenting style.

There are too many studies which have been done which show that the brains of psychopaths are working in WAAAAAAY different ways than the brains of the regular folks. The complete lack of any anxiety when they know that as soon as the clock ticks down they will get a shock, is just one example - there are others.

This link is to an article written about some of the findings of Robert Hare - with a short excerpt afterward...

http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

In another Hare study, groups of letters were flashed to volunteers. Some of them were nonsense, some formed real words. The subject's job was to press a button whenever he recognized a real word, while Hare recorded response time and brain activity. Non-psychopaths respond faster and display more brain activity when processing emotionally loaded words such as "rape" or "cancer" than when they see neutral words such as "tree." With psychopaths, Hare found no difference. To them, "rape" and "tree" have the same emotional impact -- none.

Casey's brain wiring is not due to George & Cindy's style of parenting.

JMO

[SavannahStar]

I was on the Lauterbach board, and yes you were a firm believer that the wife was NOT involved. I do give you a lot of credit in standing firm in what you believe in despite what everyone else says.

I think SOME of the reasons why Cindy and George are discussed so much here is that we really haven't had much access to Casey since early on. JMO.

That's for sure true!

Good to be posting with you again!

[dvsone]

I think its supposed to be a special Nancy.

yeah the first 30 days now.
yesterday was the first 24*

they are pretty good at the time line thing though .. it sorta helps.

[happy2bme]

I'd be willing to bet she does. And not just because she got caught, either.


I certainly hope you're right SS.

[8BellesFan]

at the time they got the car and cleaned it and washed the pants, they had not located Caylee or Casey. George knew the odor was a bad sign, he said so. why would they destroy evidence of possibly both of their family members being murdered?

I think they did it to cover what they already knew.

MOO

[PuffDragon]

I would like to pose a question.

If Casey were to confess to it being an accident and tell how it happened, would anyone that thinks it is outright murder accept it as a possibility?

If Casey confessed that it had been an accident (boy, talk about far-reaching hypotheticals!) I would be very sure that it had not. Casey has absolutely no credibility with me. I started out thinking it had been an accident, at the beginning, but now I'm reserving judgment, waiting to hear what the evidence has to say. Any confession indicating an accident from Casey would put me right square in the 'murder' camp because Casey is an unapologetic liar.

[Mairi II]

I hear about so much talk about "accidental" death. There are two types of accident death, though: One in which Caylee's death was purely an accident, such as drowning...or, the second, in which Caylee's death was a result of some nefarious action by Casey. I just can't imagine it would be a result of #1 but rather #2. I can't get past Casey not calling authorities if it was #1. She's such a master at lying that she could talk her way around being on the phone or whatever (and, in essence, not having Caylee in her direct care and control).

I would be a crummy juror, that I know. I'd have a very hard time in setting my pre-conceived opinions aside - and I'd tell them that up front.

[cloe23]

they brought the car home, cleaned it, and then George went to work while Cindy read some papers from the car to locate a friend of Casey's and enlist her help to go get Casey and Caylee. later that night is when Cindy called 911. the police came only to be given a grand tour of Casey's office and some random apartments. while Caylee is kidnapped and missing, Cindy goes through Casey's belongings brought from Tony's and got some cash and other items.

personally, I'd have been unconscious

TY for answering my questions so well. I do remember the money and Cindy issue. But continue to get overwhelmed by the time lines.

ETA: I wouldn't of taken that car out of the lot! I would of call 911 right then and there in front of the ppl that worked at the impound lot. At least I hope I would. Maybe easier said then done.
I once ran out of the bar that I was tending while a big ole farmer was having a heart attack. I just flipped. This was 20yrs ago so I hope I would do the next right thing today.

[Calla]

I was on the Lauterbach board, and yes you were a firm believer that the wife was NOT involved. I do give you a lot of credit in standing firm in what you believe in despite what everyone else says.

I think SOME of the reasons why Cindy and George are discussed so much here is that we really haven't had much access to Casey since early on. JMO.

I too recall your stance on the wife being involved..respected you both for it.
I was on the opposite side ..and still hold tight to that :biggrin:

I believe you are right. Casey's silence is propelling the conversation to new levels.

good to c ya peas

[AbbyNormal]

I'm thinking that GA contributed to that fast return of an indictment. JMO
There is so much we don't know. Yes, he probably did contribute to the indictment.

[happy2bme]

I'm not sure what my parents would have done in that situation......but it wouldn't surprise me if my mom washed the pants, and my dad cleaned the car.

It wasn't a crime scene at the time.

I don't see intent either....as they did call the police....again they didn't drive the car into a lake, or set it on fire.

And nothing they did was to the level of obstruction or trying to destroy evidence, that I have seen.

IMO

See you forget George was in LE before. He admitted he knew what the smell was.

My parents may have done the same BUT they were not in LE. That is where things change. moo

[Reenbean]

they brought the car home, cleaned it, and then George went to work while Cindy read some papers from the car to locate a friend of Casey's and enlist her help to go get Casey and Caylee. later that night is when Cindy called 911. the police came only to be given a grand tour of Casey's office and some random apartments. while Caylee is kidnapped and missing, Cindy goes through Casey's belongings brought from Tony's and got some cash and other items.

personally, I'd have been unconscious

George even told LE that responded that DAY that he believes his daughter had something to do with Caylee's "disappearance". It's in the docs dump. IIRC it was before LE left w/ Casey to go to Zanny the Nanny Saw Grass apartment (that had been vacant for months).
Cindy also told Amy, in the docs dump as well, how Casey is a pathological liar, BEFORE the 911 calls, when Amy took Cindy to Tony's to confront Casey.
And of course afterwards Cindy talks about that confrontation on Dateline like it was no big deal. The initial reactions and statements from everyone are very clear, and the spin later from the A's are just blatant BS. All JMO.

[gaelicpeas]

Somebody had to say it.

Is nancy a repeat tonight do you know?
Not sure about NG, but Greta has a special on the case tonight at 10.

[bchand]

I sure agree with that - I wouldn't post it on myspace either - but I do know folks who think differently - perhaps she thought it was the only way to contact her daughter, or the way to get Casy to understand her feelings?

jmo


But she claimed that she spoke to her every day either on the phone or in text message.

[Calla]

Actually, Calla, they set up the Caylee Missing myspace that night (July 15 or into the early morning of July 16).

I thot the post was regarding Cindy's July 3 stuff...my error

[aubrey04]

at the time they got the car and cleaned it and washed the pants, they had not located Caylee or Casey. George knew the odor was a bad sign, he said so. why would they destroy evidence of possibly both of their family members being murdered?

I think they did it to cover what they already knew.

MOO

And I agree with you. Even recalling the smell of decomposition while being interview by LE a few weeks later made George Anthony get sick.. literally, he threw up.

They knew.

imo.

[gaelicpeas]

I think at that point Cindy wasn't sure Caylee was dead. I think the back and forth guilt trips may have been every day-ish in Casa Anthony. I think Cindy and Casey regualrly went at it, with guilt trips, Caylee, George, money, and everything else as weapons. This my space was only one more weapon in the war of mom vs daughter.

in my opinion

I agree. But I was referring to the Caylee Missing myspace created on the night of July 15, early morning July 16.

[dref99]

You're right, it is there. I'm one of the posters who believes George and Cindy failed in their duty to protect Caylee.

Cindy and George provided a home and financial support for Caylee. Can you explain how they failed to protect her? Casey was the child's mother. If she decided to take Caylee from the grandparents home, it was impossible for them to stop her. LE would certainly have ignored any calls related to "my grown up daughter has left home and taken her child with her"

jmo

[gaelicpeas]

Well, I googled up some key phrases from Casey's "diary of days" and the only hits I get are to Casey's blog. So I am unsure.. It is a strange way to correspond to each other. I think they were playing a strange game with one another.

But it reminds me of how they interacted during the jail visits... and how Casey interacted w/Lee and George during their visits. Very bizarre.
Yep, I have said from the time I got involved in this case that those two were playing a game with each other... a very deadly game. IMO.

[legalmania]

I'm not sure what my parents would have done in that situation......but it wouldn't surprise me if my mom washed the pants, and my dad cleaned the car.

It wasn't a crime scene at the time.

I don't see intent either....as they did call the police....again they didn't drive the car into a lake, or set it on fire.

And nothing they did was to the level of obstruction or trying to destroy evidence, that I have seen.

IMO

You have the smell of a dead body you granddaughter has been missing for 31 days, your daughter has no idea where the baby is and you don't think this car wasn't used in some kind of crime?

[SavannahStar]

I hear about so much talk about "accidental" death. There are two types of accident death, though: One in which Caylee's death was purely an accident, such as drowning...or, the second, in which Caylee's death was a result of some nefarious action by Casey. I just can't imagine it would be a result of #1 but rather #2. I can't get past Casey not calling authorities if it was #1. She's such a master at lying that she could talk her way around being on the phone or whatever (and, in essence, not having Caylee in her direct care and control).

I would be a crummy juror, that I know. I'd have a very hard time in setting my pre-conceived opinions aside - and I'd tell them that up front.

I'm one that believes it MAY have been an accidental death. Whether #1 or #2, however, matters to me not one bit. Because of her actions afterwards, the lying, the cover up, the huge made-up stories about Zanny, etc. So though some may think I'm "soft" on Casey because I believe it may have been an accident, I am really not. I still believe she should get LWOP for the crime, because of her actions after the fact.

[daHawg]

True, July 3 was a significant day in many ways.

Look at all the calls to and from Casey and the Anthony Home as well as Cindy's cell on the 3rd of July. Also everytime the "Anthony Home" left a voice mail Casey retrieved it immediately after. There was a whole lot going on that day.


Starts on page 34

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2385297/Casey_Anthony_cell_records_615_to_716

[*MoonRider*]

Yep, I have said from the time I got involved in this case that those two were playing a game with each other... a very deadly game. IMO.
Cindy says she may be a liar but she's not a murderer. If she lies about a job, nanny and stealing she would surely tell the truth about a murder. JMO

[PuffDragon]

well said

I am getting scared that a degree may be required to come here soon:scared:

I've learned so much from all the great posters here that I think I should get a degree. We all should!

[Dunlurken]

Not sure about NG, but Greta has a special on the case tonight at 10.

I love Greta. I've been wondering why she's been stuck on politics instead of covering this case. I always though Greta covered Natalee and Nancy gets to cover Caylee. About ratings. JMO.

[dixie77]

Originally Posted by Katt2
I would like to pose a question.

If Casey were to confess to it being an accident and tell how it happened, would anyone that thinks it is outright murder accept it as a possibility?
============

I would be willing to listen. Then form my opinion.

[nana6]

Hi everyone, I want to say I hope all on this board have a happy and healthy 2009. I also hope this horrible case will be solved and that Casey is out of the p ublic eye for the rest of her life. My opinion of course.

[Calla]

You have the smell of a dead body you granddaughter has been missing for 31 days, your daughter has no idea where the baby is and you don't think this car wasn't used in some kind of crime?

Did they clean the car when they got it back from th pound or did they clean it after the 911 calls?

[Mairi II]

Katt, up until a few days ago I posted here on this very board and you check my post history, that I was certain beyond a doubt that this was a pre-meditated murder by a spiteful girl that hated her child and wanted to get even with her vindictive mother. When I started playing that game Devil's Advocate for the Defense, I changed my mind. I tried very hard to find something in the State's case that could maintain my stance, but you know, the State just isn't proving to me that it was no accident. So if she were to come forth and say hey look the kid drown in the pool and I was off smoking some pot or yacking on the phone, I would totally accept it.

{bolding added}

Me, too. Although I think it was something different just strictly by her lack of a phone call. I would think, deep inside, there was something more nefarious going on. She's not going to admit to something other than an innocent accident - why would she? Right? And I don't know that it will be able to be proved to be anything other than an innocent accident. She will have to at least own up to being present, etc. with an innocent accident, though. I'm hoping upon hope there is evidence otherwise.

[8BellesFan]

Cindy and George provided a home and financial support for Caylee. Can you explain how they failed to protect her? Casey was the child's mother. If she decided to take Caylee from the grandparents home, it was impossible for them to stop her. LE would certainly have ignored any calls related to "my grown up daughter has left home and taken her child with her"

jmo


LE is required to respond to any call stating that a child might be in danger. Like when a doobie smoking habitual liar and granddad's money stealing person takes a child from the home. Does not matter who is the mother, the child has the right to be safe.

[shelbar53]

I hear about so much talk about "accidental" death. There are two types of accident death, though: One in which Caylee's death was purely an accident, such as drowning...or, the second, in which Caylee's death was a result of some nefarious action by Casey. I just can't imagine it would be a result of #1 but rather #2. I can't get past Casey not calling authorities if it was #1. She's such a master at lying that she could talk her way around being on the phone or whatever (and, in essence, not having Caylee in her direct care and control).

I would be a crummy juror, that I know. I'd have a very hard time in setting my pre-conceived opinions aside - and I'd tell them that up front.

I think whatever she did to kill caylee was in a fit of rage, probably lots of bruises, thats why she couldnt state it was an accident, she would have to tell them where the body was and they would know it was a pretty horrible death. However, 31 days later maybe the body was pretty decomposed and they wouldnt have been able to tell, but she knew the body was double bagged with duct tape over the mouth...how would she explain that away?

[Calla]

I've learned so much from all the great posters here that I think I should get a degree. We all should!

some won't agree with me but I don't care..
some of us didnt get the breaks we needed but we are certainly more insightful than some of the investigators, etc that handle some cases.

jmo

[8BellesFan]

Did they clean the car when they got it back from th pound or did they clean it after the 911 calls?

before 911. that's what is so baffling to me. neither Caylee or Casey was known to be safe.

[Dunlurken]

Did they clean the car when they got it back from th pound or did they clean it after the 911 calls?
I think before, but don't quote me. LOL. Cindy cleaned the car, washed clothes, etc. then called 911. JMO.

[Mairi II]

I'm one that believes it MAY have been an accidental death. Whether #1 or #2, however, matters to me not one bit. Because of her actions afterwards, the lying, the cover up, the huge made-up stories about Zanny, etc. So though some may think I'm "soft" on Casey because I believe it may have been an accident, I am really not. I still believe she should get LWOP for the crime, because of her actions after the fact.

I'm just fearful they'll sway a jury about the difference in the two. I agree with you, though.

[Neffy]

I hear about so much talk about "accidental" death. There are two types of accident death, though: One in which Caylee's death was purely an accident, such as drowning...or, the second, in which Caylee's death was a result of some nefarious action by Casey. I just can't imagine it would be a result of #1 but rather #2. I can't get past Casey not calling authorities if it was #1. She's such a master at lying that she could talk her way around being on the phone or whatever (and, in essence, not having Caylee in her direct care and control).

I would be a crummy juror, that I know. I'd have a very hard time in setting my pre-conceived opinions aside - and I'd tell them that up front.


ITA #2 Nefarious action

I waffle on quite a few things but I know nothing less of a nefarious action would lead to that child being placed in a trash bag in the woods.

[dref99]

That's what I mean. Why use "the" angel and not "my angel" I'm just saying that is an odd word. But then again, with Cindy and her word soup, God only knows how to explain her or her family.

Perhaps "the" because it wasn't her daughter - but who really knows (as opposed to has an opinion) :unsure: There have sure been alot of posts over the past 6 months trying to explain events - I think it may become easier to explain if there is a trial. One of the downs of not having live trials any more seems to be overconcentration on cases before they get to court.

jmo

[8BellesFan]

For those first 31 days, they didn't know Caylee was in danger. They only knew that Casey took Caylee away from the home, and there is nothing illegal in Casey doing that.


they knew she had commited crimes and was smoking weed. not a safe environment for a two year old.

[shelbar53]

Originally Posted by Katt2
I would like to pose a question.

If Casey were to confess to it being an accident and tell how it happened, would anyone that thinks it is outright murder accept it as a possibility?
============

I would be willing to listen. Then form my opinion.

Ok, I thought I read that she cant say its an accident unless she takes the stand because she already commited to the kidnapping story so thats why im thinking she will try and beg for a plea deal of some sort, but that doesnt mean the SA have to approve it. either way her big fat goose is cooked.

[magnolia]

Mimi428,
Wow...no that's the kind of post I like to read (the one about parenting style, pyschopaths, and studies). That's interesting.

I take note of how many people blame the actions of one person on another (or others). I tend to be of the mind-set to blame the person or people who actually committed the CRIME.

[Dunlurken]

For those first 31 days, they didn't know Caylee was in danger. They only knew that Casey took Caylee away from the home, and there is nothing illegal in Casey doing that.

I'm sorry, but when a child lives in your house as Caylee lived with Cindy, and you believed your lying, thieving daughter for 31 days.... doesn't add up to me. JMO.

[8BellesFan]

I didn't see where Casey smoked weed in front of Caylee. Smoking weed in and of itself is not a threat to any child.

I believe Cindy had discussed her concerns with a professional, and had actually planned to address Casey.

the professional also told her to keep Caylee, IIRC

my post was in response to whomever said the cops would not come or do anything in response to a call saying an adult child has left and taken their child. they would come.

[frances1]

Here is my thoughts on Casey. I look at Casey as being a 14 year old in the body of a 21 year old. And I say that because look at how she up to now has been raised. No responsibility. no job, doing what she wants, staying up late at night and sleeping late in the morning, texting and cellphoning 24/7, partying, going to high school type parties (no clothes party and hot body contest? Please!) defying her parents, dropping out of school, and the list goes on and on. This is what a 14 year old does, not a 21 or 22 year old. So when I see her bizarre actions, I see them as what would a stupid 14 year old kid who thinks they are smarter than the rest of the world do if she found her baby sister who she was supposed to be watching, and can't stand, by the way, dead of choking on a piece of gum. Same thing she might do if she were Bobby Brady and broke the rules no ball playing in the house- glue it up and hide it. And go to great lengths to lie about it in the process. This is why I am still not there, not yet, with the guilty of murder thing.


So this is what you would consider 'normal' behavior for a 14 year old? Interesting. We certainly do have different views on parenting. And, in my opinion, such behavior would not be 'stupid' but amoral.

[SavannahStar]

I respect where you are at, Savannah, but I do not think that anyone deserves LWOP for not calling 911, not reporting an accident and the coverup that followed. Prison time, yes, but LWOP- no.

I can be convinced otherwise. I'll admit my gut reaction about that is based on emotion. I can just see/hear her at Universal with that cock 'n bull story about working there, and the nanny and everything, and it just makes my blood boil.

I would love to be on this jury. I think I could be unbiased, I really do.

[Dunlurken]

the professional also told her to keep Caylee, IIRC

No, the professional told her to try and get custody of Caylee. Big difference. JMO.

[SavannahStar]

Law enforcement were on the scene. LE knew the car had a SMELL , the smell was said to be like that of a dead body. LE KNEW this. Le were at the scene , they had the car in front of their noses . Why was the CAR not taken then ? This would have saved all the speculation about CA washing and obstructing evidence .


I find it ODD that GA is held accountable for his knowledge in what a dead body smells like ,even though he is not and has not been in LE in 20 years , BUT THER VERY LE that were on the SCENE that night , the most important night of all ,are not being questioned !

GA is not the LAW , the Orlandl PD - LE are they were at the scene they are to perserve evidence , any and all ! THEY did not . This is an extension of the TIPS that were called into the LE 3 times in August, yes they had a lot of tips ,but most were off the wall , theyhad a county worker in the area calling 3 times , LE were AT THE SCENE
( just like at the A's on 7-15-08 and NOTHING was perserved) , not a thing . Sorry ,I would not be giving any bonuses this years for a job well done, in FACT is scary ! MOPO

Now THAT'S an interesting take on it.

[MerriMent]

Cindy and George provided a home and financial support for Caylee. Can you explain how they failed to protect her? Casey was the child's mother. If she decided to take Caylee from the grandparents home, it was impossible for them to stop her. LE would certainly have ignored any calls related to "my grown up daughter has left home and taken her child with her"

jmo

Baloney. Caylee had rights that her grandparents failed to protect. One of those rights is a roof over her head and safe environment. LE got involved as soon as Cindy phoned. Casey wasn't providing a roof over Caylee's head, the grandparents were. Have you never heard of CFS? Caylee was removed from her home by her unstable mother. Cindy called Casey a sociopath. The facts don't support the b.s. that poor Cindy didn't know her daughter was unstable. Both knew it.

[marshmallow]

Actually, Calla, they set up the Caylee Missing myspace that night (July 15 or into the early morning of July 16).

really?

they didn't go on tv begging for Caylee to be returned, they didn't hit the airwaves pleading with the kidnappers to give her back... but they made a my space page?

I'm reserving comment because it might cause me to get a bad case of "banned"

[OneUp]

I have a question I'm quite interested in hearing POV's on. In YOUR opinion, is it obstruction if the ATTEMPT to interfere with the investigation is there...or ONLY if the action(s) is/are sucessful in impeding to process?
I'd be interested in hearing the actual legal facts on this too..
FWIW, I don't think one has to succeed in getting in the way, just try....no more than one must successfully rob a store to be guilty of robbery ( attempted). IMO, it is the INTENT that matters...but I view things more from a moral than a legal POV. The two aren't always in complete harmony...I can think of many things I find immoral that are technically legal.
I thought it MAY explain some of the squabbling about whether or not the Anthony's may be looking at obstruction charges, etc.
I think we are often talking bout slightly different things but make the mistake of feeling that others think as we do.

I hope when I can log back on and read more later that one of our lawyers can clarify "obstruction" for me....I am unclear as to whether or not intent is enough to earn charges.
Thanks peeps!
ETA: I spoke with my attorney today in passing and asked about the GAl question...I hate to think I'm passing on less than accurate info.! He tells me that in my case, I was Tia's GAl as I was appointed before her ( known) death....the guardianship was just extended to her "estate" ( donations) after her death as it was in place at the time. So NO, I was not actually appointed after the fact, but before and I want to clarify as I think I was confused. I don't want to create further confusion for others!
All, JMO.
Thanks if you have a response to my question!:smile:

[SavannahStar]

Mimi428,
Wow...no that's the kind of post I like to read (the one about parenting style, pyschopaths, and studies). That's interesting.

I take note of how many people blame the actions of one person on another (or others). I tend to be of the mind-set to blame the person or people who actually committed the CRIME.

:thumbsup: bravo for that!!!!!!!!!

And thank you, Mimi, also.

[8BellesFan]

No, the professional told her to try and get custody of Caylee. Big difference. JMO.


no, not really.

[Dunlurken]

It might not add up to you. But it isn't a reason for LE to get involved.

At least she could have called.

[*MoonRider*]

Mimi428

Wow...no that's the kind of post I like to read (the one about parenting style, pyschopaths, and studies). That's interesting.

I take note of how many people blame the actions of one person on another (or others). I tend to be of the mind-set to blame the person or people who actually committed the CRIME.

Nature vs nurture. Parents have a very big role in how the raise/parent their children. If they blame the guidance counselor for Casey not graduating and not hold her accountable. She steals from people and she is not held accountable. It is always the fault of another. Your perfect child would not lie so it must be the teachers fault. You have to make your children face the consequences of their actions our you will raise a sociopath like Casey IMO>

[8BellesFan]

It would be kidnapping if she tried to do that without the benefit of a family court order.

not if you call CPS

[Neffy]

some won't agree with me but I don't care..
some of us didnt get the breaks we needed but we are certainly more insightful than some of the investigators, etc that handle some cases.

jmo

ITA with you to a point. The problem (if it is a problem) is we have a little more insight and not so much with the investigators it's when it goes to trial. Stuff we know may not be allowed in. I can really see Casey wiping out her grandparents retirement funds not being allowed in. Were privy to so much circumstantial evidence we consider it all.

I would be livid to serve on a jury to find out stuff when I was done serving of a series of actions that clearly demonstrate the makings of a bad seed.

Before anyone pounces it's not only one thing, it just so happens I mentioned one thing such as the grandparents account but I'm still trying to catch up and read back on what I missed to post more.

[gaelicpeas]

That's for sure true!

Good to be posting with you again!
You too, Savannah...

[8BellesFan]

At least she could have called.

:thumbsup: exactly.

[Mimi428]

Mimi428,
Wow...no that's the kind of post I like to read (the one about parenting style, pyschopaths, and studies). That's interesting.

I take note of how many people blame the actions of one person on another (or others). I tend to be of the mind-set to blame the person or people who actually committed the CRIME.


Hooray! Another person like me who actually has an abiding interest in the mindsets of criminals.

I will find more links & post them when I have time. I will put that in the links thread, also.

[cloe23]

Why didn't the impound guy call LE then? I mean he had smelled a dead body before, I think he said several times in his 20 plus years doing that job....he specifically talked about the guy who committed suicide and was in a car for 5 days.....and GA had said something about his granddaughter missing to the impound guy, correct? He had their names and address.....so why didn't he report it to LE? Of course he only rated the smell a 7 out of 10 on the bad odor scale.

I think hindsight is 20/20......

I thought he was just a kid? LE need his testimony, regardless.
Suppose there are many working at the lot. They prob don't fall into the category of inviting the cops over? Just a thought, not a judgement.
CNN has Caylee on now.:blink:

[SavannahStar]

Baloney. Caylee had rights that her grandparents failed to protect. One of those rights is a roof over her head and safe environment. LE got involved as soon as Cindy phoned. Casey wasn't providing a roof over Caylee's head, the grandparents were. Have you never heard of CFS? Caylee was removed from her home by her unstable mother. Cindy called Casey a sociopath. The facts don't support the b.s. that poor Cindy didn't know her daughter was unstable. Both knew it.

I disagree.

And as far as Cindy calling Casey a sociopath, well that means about as much to me as people on here calling Casey a sociopath. Which is nothing. Unless they are experienced professionals who have studied Casey in-depth, over time, and in person.

[Mairi II]

Law enforcement were on the scene. LE knew the car had a SMELL , the smell was said to be like that of a dead body. LE KNEW this. Le were at the scene , they had the car in front of their noses . Why was the CAR not taken then ? This would have saved all the speculation about CA washing and obstructing evidence .


I find it ODD that GA is held accountable for his knowledge in what a dead body smells like ,even though he is not and has not been in LE in 20 years , BUT THER VERY LE that were on the SCENE that night , the most important night of all ,are not being questioned !

GA is not the LAW , the Orlandl PD - LE are they were at the scene they are to perserve evidence , any and all ! THEY did not . This is an extension of the TIPS that were called into the LE 3 times in August, yes they had a lot of tips ,but most were off the wall , theyhad a county worker in the area calling 3 times , LE were AT THE SCENE and yet again , with the body under their noses , they missed it ?
( just like at the A's on 7-15-08 and NOTHING was perserved) , not a thing . Sorry ,I would not be giving any bonuses this years for a job well done, in FACT is scary ! MOPO

The car was already cleaned before LE was called, wasn't it?

[KayOh]

I can be convinced otherwise. I'll admit my gut reaction about that is based on emotion. I can just see/hear her at Universal with that cock 'n bull story about working there, and the nanny and everything, and it just makes my blood boil.

I would love to be on this jury. I think I could be unbiased, I really do.

Hi Savannah!
I think you could be too. :wink:

[MerriMent]

For those first 31 days, they didn't know Caylee was in danger. They only knew that Casey took Caylee away from the home, and there is nothing illegal in Casey doing that.

Fact is, LE got involved as soon as Cindy phoned 911.

[8BellesFan]

The car was already cleaned before LE was called, wasn't it?

yes, it was, and without knowing if either family member was okay.

[gaelicpeas]

TY for answering my questions so well. I do remember the money and Cindy issue. But continue to get overwhelmed by the time lines.

ETA: I wouldn't of taken that car out of the lot! I would of call 911 right then and there in front of the ppl that worked at the impound lot. At least I hope I would. Maybe easier said then done.
I once ran out of the bar that I was tending while a big ole farmer was having a heart attack. I just flipped. This was 20yrs ago so I hope I would do the next right thing today.

I have said this before, and will say it again. I found it sooooo very odd that George told the tow company operator that both his daughter and granddaughter were missing, but they had found the daughter. WHYYYYY would you say this to some stranger? So odd...

[SavannahStar]

Personally I think CPS should only be called when there is clear evidence of child abuse. In many cases, CPS causes a lot more harm than the parent ever could. imo

Oh boy is that ever true!

And especially in FL!!!! :blink:

[Mairi II]

These 911 calls of Cindy's are actually heartwrenching. She is utterly beside herself. Much more than Caylee's mother.

[8BellesFan]

Personally I think CPS should only be called when there is clear evidence of child abuse. In many cases, CPS causes a lot more harm than the parent ever could. imo

while I value all opinions, I am removing myself from this get nowhere back and forth. we disagree.

[*MoonRider*]

I disagree.

And as far as Cindy calling Casey a sociopath, well that means about as much to me as people on here calling Casey a sociopath. Which is nothing. Unless they are experienced professionals who have studied Casey in-depth, over time, and in person.

I would highly recommend this book for you to read "the Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. It describes Casey to a tee.http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230944644&sr=8-1 Add it to your New Year's reading material. JMO

[Roux]

For those first 31 days, they didn't know Caylee was in danger. They only knew that Casey took Caylee away from the home, and there is nothing illegal in Casey doing that.

Nothing illegal but certainly not good for a not-quite-3 yr old child to be taken from pillar to post. Cindy knew, and apparently believed, all the details Casey was giving her during those 31 days. It sounded like an extremely inappropriate odyssey for a child.
Also, remember we know of at least one night when Caylee slept in the bed with Casey and Ricardo. IMO Cindy could have tried harder to see that Caylee had regular meal and bed times. We don't know what went on, of course, but it seems to me that in spite of all her cute outfits there was something amiss in Caylee's life.

[bchand]

Read my last post.....

The impound guy had smelled a dead body before.....knew the name and address of the owners....knew that a grandchild was missing.....

put the smell at a 7 out of 10.....

yet didn't call LE.

Hindsight is 20/20 (sorry this is an abridged version of my last post)

Once the guy at the towing co found out this baby was missing, he went outside in his Pajamas and dove into a trash bin to retrieve evidence. I find no fault with him at all.

[MerriMent]

I disagree.

And as far as Cindy calling Casey a sociopath, well that means about as much to me as people on here calling Casey a sociopath. Which is nothing. Unless they are experienced professionals who have studied Casey in-depth, over time, and in person.

Now you're simply making excuses. Cindy calling Casey a sociopath is quite chilling considering that Cindy was her mother and also a trained nurse. What other person knew Casey better than her own mother?

[gaelicpeas]

I too recall your stance on the wife being involved..respected you both for it.
I was on the opposite side ..and still hold tight to that :biggrin:

I believe you are right. Casey's silence is propelling the conversation to new levels.

good to c ya peas
(actually, I was not on Savannah's side in that case! But you, me, and mw5 spent many late nights discussing it.)

Yes, I agree... we only can discuss what is before us, IMO. Right now, all we have are the actions of the Anthonys because Casey has been silenced, by either herself or her attorney.

[gaelicpeas]

I thot the post was regarding Cindy's July 3 stuff...my error

The original post was, but then bloggers on that site referred to the Caylee Missing site. Therein lies the confusion, IMO.

[MerriMent]

Right. After they learned from Casey that Caylee had been missing for 31 days.

No, Casey told them Caylee was with the babysitter. It was Cindy who told LE Caylee was missing. My point, which you avoid, is that Cindy could have made that same call 31 days earlier and LE would have responded and made a well-being check on Caylee.

[KayOh]

Once the guy at the towing co found out this baby was missing, he went outside in his Pajamas and dove into a trash bin to retrieve evidence. I find no fault with him at all.

HI b!
I got the impression that he felt it was George's place to notify LE .. not so much his.

[AbbyNormal]

I would highly recommend this book for you to read "the Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. It describes Casey to a tee.http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230944644&sr=8-1 Add it to your New Year's reading material. JMOThank you for referring this book!

[Calla]

ITA with you to a point. The problem (if it is a problem) is we have a little more insight and not so much with the investigators it's when it goes to trial. Stuff we know may not be allowed in. I can really see Casey wiping out her grandparents retirement funds not being allowed in. Were privy to so much circumstantial evidence we consider it all.

I would be livid to serve on a jury to find out stuff when I was done serving of a series of actions that clearly demonstrate the makings of a bad seed.

Before anyone pounces it's not only one thing, it just so happens I mentioned one thing such as the grandparents account but I'm still trying to catch up and read back on what I missed to post more.
I know what you mean but you have to agree that sitting in a room at univeral, your question would have been ......'why did you drop her off at zenaida's if you don't really work here and haven't for nearly 2 years?'

[happy2bme]

I'm one that believes it MAY have been an accidental death. Whether #1 or #2, however, matters to me not one bit. Because of her actions afterwards, the lying, the cover up, the huge made-up stories about Zanny, etc. So though some may think I'm "soft" on Casey because I believe it may have been an accident, I am really not. I still believe she should get LWOP for the crime, because of her actions after the fact.

It is our given right to our own opinion.
I can recall quickly...how angry I had gotten over the Brooke Bennett case. The ones that blamed the stepdaughter. I learned from that case alone that some people argue simply to argue, to create havoc, or maybe simpy sheer boredom...who knows. That is one's right.......I guess.

I know it made me truly sad.

I hope Casey gets the fullest term possible. She, whether accident or purpose, took the life of an innocent human being. She deserves whatever she may get. MOHO

[bchand]

HI b!
I got the impression that he felt it was George's place to notify LE .. not so much his.

Hi KayOh - and I agree with him. But he went above and beyond once he saw the case on the news. No one asked him to go trash diving. He just did it because he knew what was thrown out could be important. You know, just using common sense. :)

[shelbar53]

really?

they didn't go on tv begging for Caylee to be returned, they didn't hit the airwaves pleading with the kidnappers to give her back... but they made a my space page?

I'm reserving comment because it might cause me to get a bad case of "banned"

I agree, The last thing I would do when I just found out my granddaughter was kidnapped would be going on a computer, GMAB

[8BellesFan]

Wow, where did you hear this? The doc dump?


other's have given statements to the police that Caylee was brought to parties where everyone was drinking. I think there was one party at least where she was put to sleep on the couch.

[marshmallow]

my point being that Casey is a 14 year old mind trapped inside of a 22 year old body. You are being sanctimonius , I'm not biting. My point was that her brain is not that of a 22 year old. And may I point out that Stupid or Amoral, nothing that I have seen so far in the way of her behavior makes her a MURDERER.



what professionals have deemed her mentally impaired or mentally stunted at age 14? I missed that part, with my luck it was the days we lost power.

[PuffDragon]

Exactly....or when cindy stated (not word for word) that if Caylee were to be found dead it would be everyone else's fault. I am sure (like myself) alot of people have not forgotten that.

When this story first broke I felt so sorry for Cindy and George. When Cindy started parroting Casey's lies I never felt she was lying, just ignoring what was right in front of her nose by repeating what Casey had told her so she never had to face what was developing. But when she started throwing blame around I had to rethink my position. Cindy wasn't acting very nice. Not illegal, but ill-advised. Like me, people turned away from her. Throw dirt at Casey's friends who were good to her? At the police who were trying so hard to find Caylee? At the media she was using and the volunteers who were searching? Every time she was confronted by reporters she was so ugly and nasty, I thought, what's this all about, why is she being so uncivil? What does she have to gain? She is so socially challenged she just doesn't seem to know what proper behavior is.

Without the advice and support she should have had, Cindy spun out more and more out of control and people start to hate her. How could anyone not have an opinion one way or another? But none of it matters because she didn't know anything and she didn't want to know. That sounds ridiculous to most of us but it's what is keeping her going. MO of course.

I don't care about her. I don't hate her. I think eventually she's going to hate herself. That's so much worse.

[Roux]

Wow, where did you hear this? The doc dump?

Yes, IIRC it was Ricardo's interview with LE.

[kitty1182]

other's have given statements to the police that Caylee was brought to parties where everyone was drinking. I think there was one party at least where she was put to sleep on the couch.


I remember that one:sad:

[happy2bme]

I didn't see where Casey smoked weed in front of Caylee. Smoking weed in and of itself is not a threat to any child.

I believe Cindy had discussed her concerns with a professional, and had actually planned to address Casey.

I may agree with you on that one......IMO

[marshmallow]

Wow, where did you hear this? The doc dump?

I believe it's in the links, I remember it too.

[MerriMent]

Nothing illegal but certainly not good for a not-quite-3 yr old child to be taken from pillar to post. Cindy knew, and apparently believed, all the details Casey was giving her during those 31 days. It sounded like an extremely inappropriate odyssey for a child.
Also, remember we know of at least one night when Caylee slept in the bed with Casey and Ricardo. IMO Cindy could have tried harder to see that Caylee had regular meal and bed times. We don't know what went on, of course, but it seems to me that in spite of all her cute outfits there was something amiss in Caylee's life.

ITA. Caylee had a right to sleep in her own bed and it is one of the most basic principles of the child protective services system.

[8BellesFan]

ITA. I really don't understand the argument that there was just absolutely :w00t: nothing that could be done to stop Casey from removing Caylee from the house -- at least temporarily.

I would have figured it out, had it been me. My first priority would have been to to keep Caylee safe. Everything else would have fallen well down the list. I certainly wouldn't sit about fretting and fuming about legalities if I was concerned by 2 year-old granddaughter was living out of strangers' apartments or hotel rooms or her mother's (borrowed) car. And that would go double if her mother had already been in some trouble.

What I'm saying is that I would have found a way to protect Caylee's little person first. Sorting out the details -- including the legalities -- would come later. But ... that's just me.


it's me too, and many of us I think.

[bchand]

Wow, where did you hear this? The doc dump?

You didn't know this?

[magnolia]

Nature vs nurture. Parents have a very big role in how the raise/parent their children. If they blame the guidance counselor for Casey not graduating and not hold her accountable. She steals from people and she is not held accountable. It is always the fault of another. Your perfect child would not lie so it must be the teachers fault. You have to make your children face the consequences of their actions our you will raise a sociopath like Casey IMO>

I get what you are saying. Growing up, we had all sorts of influences - good and bad. I've also known wonderful, caring people whose parents had no parenting skills. Some remarkable people actually, not sociopaths.

I do appreciate your thoughts on holding children accountable for their own actions and not blaming others. I think this should be applied to adult children who commit crimes also.

[legalmania]

It wasn't a crime scene at the time......hindsight is 20/20 (yes repeating myself)......

Nothing they did would have destroyed evidence by the time police got there.....

Did Cindy "accidentally" use Chlorine Bleach on the pants and bleach them out?

I haven't seen evidence other than her washing them......I didn't see where anything GA did was intended to destroy evidence.....I think if he was a detective he might he some clue as to how to destroy the evidence, but he didn't. Again (repeating myself)....the car wasn't burned or left at the bottom of a lake.

There is still plenty of evidence pointing to Casey.

And I don't think anything that G, C, & L did really obstructed their investigation in the least. IMO

Here is a generic meaning of obstruction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

[KayOh]

ITA. I really don't understand the argument that there was just absolutely :w00t: nothing that could be done to stop Casey from removing Caylee from the house -- at least temporarily.

I would have figured it out, had it been me. My first priority would have been to to keep Caylee safe. Everything else would have fallen well down the list. I certainly wouldn't sit about fretting and fuming about legalities if I was concerned by 2 year-old granddaughter was living out of strangers' apartments or hotel rooms or her mother's (borrowed) car. And that would go double if her mother had already been in some trouble.

What I'm saying is that I would have found a way to protect Caylee's little person first. Sorting out the details -- including the legalities -- would come later. But ... that's just me.

Hi Say! :wink:
I keep thinking that Casey was exhausting .. in every way imaginable for Cindy and George. I'm guessing her absence (not Caylee's) was a bit of a relief .. and so they let themselves believe she was finally taking care of herself and Caylee... Fatal error.

[Calla]

I would highly recommend this book for you to read "the Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. It describes Casey to a tee.http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230944644&sr=8-1 Add it to your New Year's reading material. JMO

LOL ! I sure don't have to read a book since the sociopath lived next door to me and was my relative.
And much like Casey..everything is someone else's fault ya know.
DOn't get me started.

I should write a book maybe.

[Katt2]

ITA with you to a point. The problem (if it is a problem) is we have a little more insight and not so much with the investigators it's when it goes to trial. Stuff we know may not be allowed in. I can really see Casey wiping out her grandparents retirement funds not being allowed in. Were privy to so much circumstantial evidence we consider it all.

I would be livid to serve on a jury to find out stuff when I was done serving of a series of actions that clearly demonstrate the makings of a bad seed.

Before anyone pounces it's not only one thing, it just so happens I mentioned one thing such as the grandparents account but I'm still trying to catch up and read back on what I missed to post more.

A lot of what we know shouldn't be allowed in because it isn't relevant to Casey killing her child. It just makes for good message board discussion.
A recent trial allowed info in that had no bearing on the death of a husband but the jury judged the defendant on evidence not relevant to the case and convicted her. This woman was granted a new trial and freed. Now I know you all know who I am talking about and our opinions on that case aren't relevant to this one but I was just throwing it in an example.

[8BellesFan]

I remember that one:sad:

Hey Sweetie from Jax to Holly! (and me too)

I thought I remembered it right, but was not sure. Thanks for remembering!

[kitty1182]

You didn't know this?

I forgot who it was was but the person said Caylee kind of looked up from the couch like she was about to cry, then just laid back down and went back to sleep:sad:

[KayOh]

I forgot who it was was but the person said Caylee kind of looked up from the couch like she was about to cry, then just laid back down and went back to sleep:sad:

HI kitty,
Amy said that ... Ricardo said they both slept in his bed.

[kitty1182]

Hey Sweetie from Jax to Holly! (and me too)

I thought I remembered it right, but was not sure. Thanks for remembering!



I remember it well, just can't recall who said it....

(hugs):wub:

[MrsHudson]

I disagree.

And as far as Cindy calling Casey a sociopath, well that means about as much to me as people on here calling Casey a sociopath. Which is nothing. Unless they are experienced professionals who have studied Casey in-depth, over time, and in person.

Casey is a sociopath. It's obvious. You really do not have to study her in depth over time. Hardly any psychiatric diagnosis is such you have to study a person in depth and over time. Couple of tests and an interview and they know what your problem is.

But you don't have to put a name to it to know Casey was out of control when she started stealing from her parents and then her grandparents. And she was out of control when she took off with Caylee. She didn't take any of her clothes, she had no roof over her head except who she flopped with. She had no money. What mother does that that can be trusted with a child?

[cloe23]

I have said this before, and will say it again. I found it sooooo very odd that George told the tow company operator that both his daughter and granddaughter were missing, but they had found the daughter. WHYYYYY would you say this to some stranger? So odd...

George appeared to be very scared, rightfully so. Cindy IMO was the strong one in the family. Maybe George wanted to get advice from Cindy? I don't believe that he went into cover up/denial mode until after his LE interviews. Just a few theories/thoughts.

[happy2bme]

Law enforcement were on the scene. LE knew the car had a SMELL , the smell was said to be like that of a dead body. LE KNEW this. Le were at the scene , they had the car in front of their noses . Why was the CAR not taken then ? This would have saved all the speculation about CA washing and obstructing evidence .


I find it ODD that GA is held accountable for his knowledge in what a dead body smells like ,even though he is not and has not been in LE in 20 years , BUT THER VERY LE that were on the SCENE that night , the most important night of all ,are not being questioned !

GA is not the LAW , the Orlandl PD - LE are they were at the scene they are to perserve evidence , any and all ! THEY did not . This is an extension of the TIPS that were called into the LE 3 times in August, yes they had a lot of tips ,but most were off the wall , theyhad a county worker in the area calling 3 times , LE were AT THE SCENE and yet again , with the body under their noses , they missed it ?
( just like at the A's on 7-15-08 and NOTHING was perserved) , not a thing . Sorry ,I would not be giving any bonuses this years for a job well done, in FACT is scary ! MOPO

Maybe they need a search warrant?? AGAIN, I am not LE...so I don't know how it works. I DID listen to GA's tape with LE & FBI so....why didn't he call from the towyard knowing what he (said himself) smelled? Explain that one. I guess I am a simpleton...I don't understand?

[magnolia]

ITA. Caylee had a right to sleep in her own bed and it is one of the most basic principles of the child protective services system.


It is NOT one of the most basic principles of the CPS. It's desirable for children to have a routine (including a bed) regarding sleep time, but it is so not enforced by and not a principle of CPS.

[Calla]

These 911 calls of Cindy's are actually heartwrenching. She is utterly beside herself. Much more than Caylee's mother.

so heartbreaking...:sad:

[frances1]

When this story first broke I felt so sorry for Cindy and George. When Cindy started parroting Casey's lies I never felt she was lying, just ignoring what was right in front of her nose by repeating what Casey had told her so she never had to face what was developing. But when she started throwing blame around I had to rethink my position. Cindy wasn't acting very nice. Not illegal, but ill-advised. Like me, people turned away from her. Throw dirt at Casey's friends who were good to her? At the police who were trying so hard to find Caylee? At the media she was using and the volunteers who were searching? Every time she was confronted by reporters she was so ugly and nasty, I thought, what's this all about, why is she being so uncivil? What does she have to gain? She is so socially challenged she just doesn't seem to know what proper behavior is.

Without the advice and support she should have had, Cindy spun out more and more out of control and people start to hate her. How could anyone not have an opinion one way or another? But none of it matters because she didn't know anything and she didn't want to know. That sounds ridiculous to most of us but it's what is keeping her going. MO of course.

I don't care about her. I don't hate her. I think eventually she's going to hate herself. That's so much worse.

Puff, that is so right on. I don't hate Cindy, either. How could I hate a complete stranger? I can observe her behavior, though, just as you said, and draw my own conclusions. I'm not sure she'll ever hate herself, though. Too much hubris for that, IMO.

[Neffy]

I know what you mean but you have to agree that sitting in a room at univeral, your question would have been ......'why did you drop her off at zenaida's if you don't really work here and haven't for nearly 2 years?'

I still can't get over the cahonies she had taking them there. I'd have to go back and read exactly what was stated but they were just as taken back IMO. I think they were at the point of not even bothering to ask her questions as they figured that she'd just lie. IIRC correctly that's all they were pounding into her was what's up with they lying!

First I wouldn't have even had the nerve to pull something like that off but again IIRC they're line of questioning or berating I would have folded with the jig being up!

Not her.

[Mairi II]

I just had a thought. I couldn't imagine Casey actually burying Caylee in the backyard.... like in digging a 3 foot hole or something such. Listening to the cadaver dog handler, though, I wonder if she simply placed Caylee's body underneath the playhouse in a very, very shallow divet without actually digging a hole, per se. She could've just placed her body there without burying her (as we think of it) and pulled the house over her body. Hmmmmmmmm. Now that makes sense to me. Now I think the death took place at the house.

[kitty1182]

HI kitty,
Amy said that ... Ricardo said they both slept in his bed.



Hi..

Is this when he said he woke up and Caylee was gone? Wonder where Casey took her?:(

[bchand]

I forgot who it was was but the person said Caylee kind of looked up from the couch like she was about to cry, then just laid back down and went back to sleep:sad:

I thought that particular event was Amy. She felt good that Caylee did not actually cry (as if Amy had a calming effect on her).

[Dunlurken]

It wouldn't have made a bit of difference. imo
That's not the point.

[happy2bme]

Read my last post.....

The impound guy had smelled a dead body before.....knew the name and address of the owners....knew that a grandchild was missing.....

put the smell at a 7 out of 10.....

yet didn't call LE.

Hindsight is 20/20 (sorry this is an abridged version of my last post)


Did read your post....LOLOLOLOLOL

[kitty1182]

I thought that particular event was Amy. She felt good that Caylee did not actually cry (as if Amy had a calming effect on her).



Poor baby....To think of how she felt so alone at times breaks my heart..

[?noanswer]

it's a special

It's a repeat of a special. JMO

[MerriMent]

Thats not even close to being accurate.

Very accurate for Florida.

[bchand]

I just had a thought. I couldn't imagine Casey actually burying Caylee in the backyard.... like in digging a 3 foot hole or something such. Listening to the cadaver dog handler, though, I wonder if she simply placed Caylee's body underneath the playhouse in a very, very shallow divet without actually digging a hole, per se. She could've just placed her body there without burying her (as we think of it) and pulled the house over her body. Hmmmmmmmm. Now that makes sense to me. Now I think the death took place at the house.


I was re-reading some of Jesse's statements today and that was his opinion too. (I think he said along side of the playhouse rather than under it though.) He said that the playhouse was very special to Caylee.

[Mairi II]

It's a repeat of a special. JMO

Yes. People are not missing much.

[joolz]

my point being that Casey is a 14 year old mind trapped inside of a 22 year old body. You are being sanctimonius , I'm not biting. My point was that her brain is not that of a 22 year old. And may I point out that Stupid or Amoral, nothing that I have seen so far in the way of her behavior makes her a MURDERER.


How did you diagnose Casey as being a 14 yr. old mind trapped in a 22 yr. old body?

[MoonFlwr]

Sorry, it took me awhile to find them again. They are emails by Cindy's mom, brother Rick, her mom's sister and Cindy. They are kind of intermingled. I found it helpful to look at the dates and times to get the chronology in order. Enjoy!

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/112608discoverysetten/1/lg/Anthony_pgs_2901-2950_Page_07.htm

Wow! Thank-you so much for posting those emails...I am busy wading through them - I hadn't seen them before.

How upsetting...watching Casey's family becoming more and more desperate whilst this nightmare unfolded! :(

[frances1]

Casey is a sociopath. It's obvious. You really do not have to study her in depth over time. Hardly any psychiatric diagnosis is such you have to study a person in depth and over time. Couple of tests and an interview and they know what your problem is.

But you don't have to put a name to it to know Casey was out of control when she started stealing from her parents and then her grandparents. And she was out of control when she took off with Caylee. She didn't take any of her clothes, she had no roof over her head except who she flopped with. She had no money. What mother does that that can be trusted with a child?

Mrs. Hudson, once again you go straight to the bottom line. Someone's been watching too many movies of people in therapy for YEARS. That's just not the way it works. Unfortunately, sociopaths are very much with us, in numbers that would surprise. There must be some posters who have never known one. They always leave destruction of one kind or another in their paths.

[Neffy]

A lot of what we know shouldn't be allowed in because it isn't relevant to Casey killing her child. It just makes for good message board discussion.
A recent trial allowed info in that had no bearing on the death of a husband but the jury judged the defendant on evidence not relevant to the case and convicted her. This woman was granted a new trial and freed. Now I know you all know who I am talking about and our opinions on that case aren't relevant to this one but I was just throwing it in an example.

I disagree to your blanket statement that alot of what we know shouldn't be allowed. I'd have to see it piece by piece.

I believe I do know the case your talking about and I believe this case isn't soley based on lifestyle. I wouldn't convict on only someone's lifestyle.

[8BellesFan]

How did you diagnose Casey as being a 14 yr. old mind trapped in a 22 yr. old body?


IMO, Casey has been a 35 year old con artist in her family for many years.:cool:

[magnolia]

Very accurate for Florida.

I totally disagree. I live in Florida, as you might, I've called CPS recently several times and know for sure that a child sleeping in his/her own bed is not a principle of CPS.

[sunstar]

I just had a thought. I couldn't imagine Casey actually burying Caylee in the backyard.... like in digging a 3 foot hole or something such. Listening to the cadaver dog handler, though, I wonder if she simply placed Caylee's body underneath the playhouse in a very, very shallow divet without actually digging a hole, per se. She could've just placed her body there without burying her (as we think of it) and pulled the house over her body. Hmmmmmmmm. Now that makes sense to me. Now I think the death took place at the house.

Hi! I'm watching Nancy's show too and heard that ~ and I'm thinking it's very possible she was there in the back yard and I've always thought that whatever Casey did to Caylee happened at the house. MOO

[bchand]

Maybe they need a search warrant?? AGAIN, I am not LE...so I don't know how it works. I DID listen to GA's tape with LE & FBI so....why didn't he call from the towyard knowing what he (said himself) smelled? Explain that one. I guess I am a simpleton...I don't understand?

As far as the car, they needed George's permission to seize it. They got it and had it towed. (I just relistened to Yuri's testimony about it.)

It was within 24 hrs of the detectives coming on the case.

They were kind of busy searching for a missing child !! Once they exhausted all hope that Casey was going to cooperate, they turned to the car and got the authority to take it.

[joolz]

IMO, Casey has been a 35 year old con artist in her family for many years.:cool:

I'd say that is a LOT more accurate!:thumbup:

[happy2bme]

It wasn't a crime scene at the time......hindsight is 20/20 (yes repeating myself)......

Nothing they did would have destroyed evidence by the time police got there.....

Did Cindy "accidentally" use Chlorine Bleach on the pants and bleach them out?

I haven't seen evidence other than her washing them......I didn't see where anything GA did was intended to destroy evidence.....I think if he was a detective he might he some clue as to how to destroy the evidence, but he didn't. Again (repeating myself)....the car wasn't burned or left at the bottom of a lake.

There is still plenty of evidence pointing to Casey.

And I don't think anything that G, C, & L did really obstructed their investigation in the least. IMO

Repeat, repeat, repeat...sadly an innocent child's murder may or may not have been solve sooner.

[Calla]

I think George mentioning to the impound guy that his daughter and grand daughter had been missing for a month was more of an explanation of how the car got there...and I am sure he may have been going for sympathy in a unconcious kind of way ..:confused:

That bill would have been hard to pay..for me anyway.




hearing casey say (again)..'all they care about is getting caylee back...uh uh uh 'and ya know thats all I care about'..

that makes me want to toss my cookies..

[Oregongal]

Evening all.
Watching NG now and have yet again heard the tape of her saying how in her gut she knows she's close.
It gives me the chills now that we know how close Caylee was and this may be the only truth she's told.
Caylee is close, I just know it.
:angry:

[Mimi428]

I would highly recommend this book for you to read "the Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. It describes Casey to a tee.http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230944644&sr=8-1 Add it to your New Year's reading material. JMO

Thanks for posting that link.

And after y'all read that book - read this one by Robert Hare entitled

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

Here's a review...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572304510/ref=s9sdps_c1_14_at1-rfc_p_si1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0PJYRMNXJNRKDEC4GNW9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463383431&pf_rd_i=507846

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please..." In Without Conscience Robert Hare argues convincingly that "psychopath" and "antisocial personality disorder" (a psychiatric term defined by a cluster of criminal behaviors) are not the same thing. Not all psychopaths are criminals, he says, and not all criminals are psychopaths. He proposes a psychopathy checklist that includes emotional/interpersonal traits such as glibness, grandiosity, lack of guilt, and shallow emotions, as well as social deviance traits such as impulsiveness, lack of responsibility, and antisocial behavior. His writing is lucid and illustrated with numerous anecdotes. The final chapter, "A Survival Guide," is especially recommended: as Hare writes, "Psychopaths are found in every segment of society, and there is a good chance that eventually you will have a painful or humiliating encounter with one."

[gaelicpeas]

really?

they didn't go on tv begging for Caylee to be returned, they didn't hit the airwaves pleading with the kidnappers to give her back... but they made a my space page?

I'm reserving comment because it might cause me to get a bad case of "banned"


Yup, you are correct... and I doubt banned camp is in your future.. ;)

[MerriMent]

It is NOT one of the most basic principles of the CPS. It's desirable for children to have a routine (including a bed) regarding sleep time, but it is so not enforced by and not a principle of CPS.

Is is the basic principle in Florida. CFS will remove children if they are homeless and sleeping in cars. If there is no room at a family shelter, the children are sent into foster care. Caylee didn't have a home or bed after Casey yanked her from the only home the child had known. All Cindy had to do was pick up the phone and ask for a wellness check.

[i_pickle]

Now you're simply making excuses. Cindy calling Casey a sociopath is quite chilling considering that Cindy was her mother and also a trained nurse. What other person knew Casey better than her own mother?This is what I don't get about Cindy. I agree with you that she knew exactly what she was saying when she called her that due to the fact that she's her mother as well as her professional experience.

But why would she try to cover for Casey if she loved Caylee so much? My question is hypothetical. I don't expect an answer.

Imo, she is clearly dysfunctional and her actions make little sense.

JMO

[8BellesFan]

Evening all.
Watching NG now and have yet again heard the tape of her saying how in her gut she knows she's close.
It gives me the chills now that we know how close Caylee was and this may be the only truth she's told.
Caylee is close, I just know it.
:angry:



hey, tell Mom to remember what we've been talking about for the past month:sad:

[aubrey04]

I hear about so much talk about "accidental" death. There are two types of accident death, though: One in which Caylee's death was purely an accident, such as drowning...or, the second, in which Caylee's death was a result of some nefarious action by Casey. I just can't imagine it would be a result of #1 but rather #2. I can't get past Casey not calling authorities if it was #1. She's such a master at lying that she could talk her way around being on the phone or whatever (and, in essence, not having Caylee in her direct care and control).

I would be a crummy juror, that I know. I'd have a very hard time in setting my pre-conceived opinions aside - and I'd tell them that up front.

#1 and #2 scenarios are VERY different. #2 would most likely fall under felony murder -- when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. #1 would simply be something along the lines of manslaughter.

However, I have a real issue with the term "accident" here. I think it is possible that Caylee's death was unintentional, but I won't go as far as to say accident. I still think there is a good possibility that Caylee was sedated and OD'ed and if so, then the word "accident" would NOT apply... because giving a child a lethal amount of drugs is NOT an accident... much like Phil Spector pointing a loaded gun inside Lana Clarkson's mouth was NO accident.

And it will still be considered first degree murder in the eyes of Florida law, since that would be considered felony murder.

[Mairi II]

Hi! I'm watching Nancy's show too and heard that ~ and I'm thinking it's very possible she was there in the back yard and I've always thought that whatever Casey did to Caylee happened at the house. MOO

Hiya, Sunstar. :) I don't know why the cadaver dog handler's statement struck me so tonight (I've heard it several times before)... but it did. Something happened at the house and Caylee was temporarily placed, not necessarily buried, in the backyard, IMO. I don't think for a second, though, that G&C were complicet (sp?).

[8BellesFan]

This is what I don't get about Cindy. I agree with you that she knew exactly what she was saying when she called her that due to the fact that she's her mother as well as her professional experience.

But why would she try to cover for Casey if she loved Caylee so much? My question is hypothetical. I don't expect an answer.

Imo, she is clearly dysfunctional and her actions make little sense.

JMO


Cindy said herself she lost one, she didn't want to lose another (paraphrased)

[legalmania]

Thank you....

already knew what it meant, but thank you. :)

So you should understand by their actions of trying to cover up the smell is obstruction. They smelt the smell and did everything in their power to hide it, they knew what they were doing. She said in her own words the car smells like there has been a dead body in it and then tried to cover up that smell. OBSTRUCTION.

[Mairi II]

#1 and #2 scenarios are VERY different. #2 would most likely fall under felony murder -- when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. #1 would simply be something along the lines of manslaughter.

However, I have a real issue with the term "accident" here. I think it is possible that Caylee's death was unintentional, but I won't go as far as to say accident. I still think there is a good possibility that Caylee was sedated and OD'ed and if so, then the word "accident" would NOT apply... because giving a child a lethal amount of drugs is NOT an accident... much like Phil Spector pointing a loaded gun inside Lana Clarkson's mouth was NO accident.

And it will still be considered first degree murder in the eyes of Florida law, since that would be considered felony murder.

I agree with you about accident vs. unintentional.

[happy2bme]

I forgot who it was was but the person said Caylee kind of looked up from the couch like she was about to cry, then just laid back down and went back to sleep:sad:

Amy said it. I think...

[magnolia]

Is is the basic principle in Florida. CFS will remove children if they are homeless and sleeping in cars. If there is no room at a family shelter, the children are sent into foster care. Caylee didn't have a home or bed after Casey yanked her from the only home the child had known. All Cindy had to do was pick up the phone and ask for a wellness check.

No that's not correct. But I see that you believe it and that's fine with me. Sadly, because of my job, I have vast experience with CPS. The statements are inaccurate, but I'm sure you have a reason to believe as you do.

[sunstar]

Evening all.
Watching NG now and have yet again heard the tape of her saying how in her gut she knows she's close.
It gives me the chills now that we know how close Caylee was and this may be the only truth she's told.
Caylee is close, I just know it.
:angry:

It's really interesting to hear these tapes again along with some video from the first hearing. How she can sit there in the courtroom and see her heartbroken parents is beyond me. :crying: MOO

[MerriMent]

Can you cite the Florida statute that says a child found sleeping in a bed other than her own, is abusing their child, and subject to removal of that child, and family court proceedings initiated. TIA

What bed was Caylee sleeping in? All I know is not only wasn't she sleeping in her own bed, she was removed from her home and was apparently homeless, sleeping on couches at adult parties.

[jakee]

As far as the car, they needed George's permission to seize it. They got it and had it towed. (I just relistened to Yuri's testimony about it.)

It was within 24 hrs of the detectives coming on the case.

They were kind of busy searching for a missing child !! Once they exhausted all hope that Casey was going to cooperate, they turned to the car and got the authority to take it.

Thanks for that info. So hard to remember everything.

Can someone help refresh my memory about when and why George took the battery out of the car? Or some car part. I think he said he didn't want someone to steal the car or something? Why would someone steal the car out of the garage? Or am I totally mixing up cases....:blush:

[gaelicpeas]

Wow, where did you hear this? The doc dump?

My memory is that Caylee regularly slept in the bed with Casey and Ricardo. But I could be wrong.

[magnolia]

Cindy being in the health profession was very aware that in doing that, she risks losing Caylee to a foster home, and the thought of her grandbaby in the hands of strangers would be horrifying for her. She chose not to do that. I would have done the same. No way am I risking my helpless grandchildren to the hands of strangers. Two words: Cupcake Brown.

In the situation we've come to know about, Caylee would NOT have gone to a foster home. No way, no chance.

[marshmallow]

Well, the post I was answering said that Caylee slept between Casey and Ricardo. That's a horse of a different color.

if you go back through the links you'll see that Casey did have Caylee sleeping in a bed with her and Ricardo. Sad but true :(

[OneUp]

Here is a generic meaning of obstruction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justiceTY Legal...I feel quite "duh!" for failing to just refer to google for a simple, general answer.
I'd still like to hear what posters have to say on their own POV on obstruction.
Fom the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice
"Generally, obstruction charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, who is not a suspect, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent allows any person who is questioned by police merely to refuse to answer questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so. (In such a case, the investigators may subpoena the witness to give testimony under oath in court) It is not relevant if the person lied to protect a suspect (such as setting up a false alibi, even if the suspect is in fact innocent) or to hide from an investigation of their own activities (such as to hide his involvement in another crime). Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence."
"Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice."

It seems that the legal def. means that if they lied at all to LE...and even if they destroyed evidence they hadn't been asked for, that they may well have obstructed ( if this is accurate...I don't think you would lead me there if it weren't!). I tend to waffle a little as to how much knowledge and how much reaction/habit caused the Senior A.'s to fib, mislead, and "clean-up". My *feeling* is that there did come a point at which they knew Caylee was "gone" at Casey's hand and just refused to acknowledge that in a desperate attempt to make all of the bad things go away....their shame/guilt ( not saying they SHOULD have any tho.)...the legal consequences for Casey...and accepting that Caylee was dead. If they didn't publically give up I think it gave a "cushion" to their emotions, no matter their thoughts when they were alone, and no matter the facts. It was just easier for them IMO to Pretend that Caylee was off living with a loving "Zanny". I DON'T think they really believed it tho....reality was prob. the elephant in the room that everyone skirted.
I know their is some "magical thinking": that goes on in the death of a child esp...it's as if by stopping in your own processing (willfully) you can halt reality and stop n a place where your little one still exists. I think that is why so many of us can't pack up and remove the belongings of loved ones...why so many lost children's room remain little shrines for so long ( even when the parents KNOW they are gone and aren't coming back). I spent every day trying to believe I was living a nightmare. I never forgot reality...I just played along with myself as I coped.
That's about the BEST benefit of the doubt I can give the A.'s.
At this point, I have to say they aren't acting in a way that suggests they're putting Caylee's memory and the law, above CYOA and Casey...but I hope i'm wrong!
JMO.

[i_pickle]

I am not sure what IASW means. I am horrible at all these shorthand abbrevs. I think the final decision was Casey's about the adoption, not Cindy. If Casey allowed Cindy to make her decision for her, that further solidifies my belief (not theory mind you, but belief) that Casey has the mind of a 14 year old trapped inside of a 22 year old body. Also, I think we are on the same page with the parents forcing the kids to have kids. That I agree with. That is a huge mistake and this should be the poster case for that cause. Morally, you may be right about Cindy's responsibility in all of this, but legally, Casey is over the age of 18, she is no minor. Cindy is not responsible for Casey nor is she responsible for Caylee. Legally speaking.Taking that a step further, Casey was of legal age to put her up for adoption whether her mother agreed or not.

Cindy and Casey had a very sick dynamic going on between them and unfortunately, Caylee paid the price.

JMO

[MerriMent]

No that's not correct. But I see that you believe it and that's fine with me. Sadly, because of my job, I have vast experience with CPS. The statements are inaccurate, but I'm sure you have a reason to believe as you do.

It's a fact Casey Anthony has been charged on aggravated child abuse and I'm fairly confident my statements are not inaccurate no matter how much you want them to be.

[sunstar]

Hiya, Sunstar. :) I don't know why the cadaver dog handler's statement struck me so tonight (I've heard it several times before)... but it did. Something happened at the house and Caylee was temporarily placed, not necessarily buried, in the backyard, IMO. I don't think for a second, though, that G&C were complicet (sp?).

I've listened to the tapes several times before too, but I think it's a little different now that Caylee's body has been found and it was so close to the Anthony's home. I've really gotten the feeling that Casey's enjoying every moment she's putting her parents through this horrible ordeal ~ from having them retrieve the car at the tow yard, to LE searching their home, not knowing for months where Caylee is while Casey's leading them on that she was kidnapped and finally to having her remains found just down the street from their house. MOO

[happy2bme]

Yep, even typed it :)

Glad to know you understand.

So....do you think it was accident or pre-med.?

[Oregongal]

And again hear Cindy say they are a grieving family in her interview with LE.
I ask again, if you only think the baby is missing, why are you grieving?
Why don't you say you are distraught, scared, worried beyond words?
:confused:

[bchand]

Although it is true that the Grandparents had nothing to do directly with the murder....remember this quote:


"When you make a monster, sooner of later the villagers get mad and show up at your castle with torches and pitch forks."

Also notice how I said "directly".....the fact that they covered up by trying to draw attention away from Casey is obstruction IMO....WFTV and WESH have all reported on that. I also think that since all of the Anthony's are fully lawyered up, they know what is coming.

and the villagers did show up didn't they? lol

[Leanne Weich]

[/B]


Didn't anybody catch on to this? Why use "the little angel" and not "our little girl". The little angel implies "in heaven". Go ahead and hammer me. When was this written? I would like to know when these people actually knew this baby was deceased. What an odd choice of words.

I refer to my deceased g/daughter as my baby angel and my living g/daughter as my darling angel. I don't think you can assume by the term used in that post that Cindy knew Caylee was dead. JMVHO.

[happy2bme]

As far as the car, they needed George's permission to seize it. They got it and had it towed. (I just relistened to Yuri's testimony about it.)

It was within 24 hrs of the detectives coming on the case.

They were kind of busy searching for a missing child !! Once they exhausted all hope that Casey was going to cooperate, they turned to the car and got the authority to take it.

Thank you b!

[Mairi II]

I've listened to the tapes several times before too, but I think it's a little different now that Caylee's body has been found and it was so close to the Anthony's home. I've really gotten the feeling that Casey's enjoying every moment she's putting her parents through this horrible ordeal ~ from having them retrieve the car at the tow yard, to LE searching their home, not knowing for months where Caylee is while Casey's leading them on that she was kidnapped and finally to having her remains found just down the street from their house. MOO

She's just plain hateful. I just sit here and sadly shake my head for what she's put people through, particularly her staunchest supporters: Her own parents. :sad:

[MrsHudson]

I respect where you are at, Savannah, but I do not think that anyone deserves LWOP for not calling 911, not reporting an accident and the coverup that followed. Prison time, yes, but LWOP- no.

It was not an accident. Where are you getting this?

Just yesterday my hubby had a spell. Some kind of seizure (mild) but it was awful! I've never seen such a thing before. He lost consciousness and I thought he could be dying. It was the worst thing! I called 911 immediately. (It turned out okay, he's fine but I was beside myself.)

I can't imagine someone not calling 911 if a loved one's life could be slipping away! And we are talking about a 3 year old here. If there's an accident and you don't call 911 and the person dies and you're watching them die for God's sake you are sick evil person.

I don't understand what's going on here anymore. I check in read a few posts and there's people like....... Oh well so a mother takes off with her kid and the kid is never seen again, and there's decomp smell in the car and the kid is found in a bag in a field while the skank mother sits in jail clinging to a boatload of lies, and she and her so called family have YET to tell the authorities the true circumstances of her death even though six months has passed . No biggie must have been an accident. Couple years in jail and a little therapy and she'll back in the arms of her loving mommy and daddy. Then they will all be missing children advocates and make lots of money.

It's like some people have become so used to the story that the shock and disgust has given way to... Oh well.....maybe it's not so bad.

Casey murdered Caylee in a catathymic rage then drove around with her dead body in the trunk of her car and then wrapped her in a garbage bag and threw her in the woods when the smell became unbearable. She did it because she is a sociopath who has no regard for the rights of others, no remorse and no fear of punishment.

[8BellesFan]

IMO, for a child not yet three years of age, Caylee had been exposed to too many of Casey's boyfriends, including the one who she asked if she should bring the snothead.

[Oregongal]

Cindy said herself she lost one, she didn't want to lose another (paraphrased)

I'd like to know who else she lost? Casey was either in jail or out on bond...she wasn't lost.
This statement of hers has always had me going hmmmmm?

[magnolia]

It's a fact Casey Anthony has been charged on aggravated child abuse and I'm fairly confident my statements are not inaccurate no matter how much you want them to be.

Yes Casey was originally charged with aggravated child abuse at the start. I agree with you there. (Or at least something like that.) But the statements about CPS protecting children's rights to sleep in their bed is way off. But that's okay.

[*MoonRider*]

Thanks for posting that link.

And after y'all read that book - read this one by Robert Hare entitled

Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us

Here's a review...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572304510/ref=s9sdps_c1_14_at1-rfc_p_si1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=0PJYRMNXJNRKDEC4GNW9&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463383431&pf_rd_i=507846

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please..." In Without Conscience Robert Hare argues convincingly that "psychopath" and "antisocial personality disorder" (a psychiatric term defined by a cluster of criminal behaviors) are not the same thing. Not all psychopaths are criminals, he says, and not all criminals are psychopaths. He proposes a psychopathy checklist that includes emotional/interpersonal traits such as glibness, grandiosity, lack of guilt, and shallow emotions, as well as social deviance traits such as impulsiveness, lack of responsibility, and antisocial behavior. His writing is lucid and illustrated with numerous anecdotes. The final chapter, "A Survival Guide," is especially recommended: as Hare writes, "Psychopaths are found in every segment of society, and there is a good chance that eventually you will have a painful or humiliating encounter with one."

Thanks, just ordered it. One can really understand how people without a conscience live and work around us. Truly remarkable. IMO

[sunstar]

I loved Nancy's comment that Casey sent over 500 text messages and calls in one month, and none were to Zenedia.

The cell records are going to speak volumes to the jury, imo. :smile:

[bchand]

if you go back through the links you'll see that Casey did have Caylee sleeping in a bed with her and Ricardo. Sad but true :(


One of Ricardo's statements to LE:

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/rm092308.pdf

They dated from early Feb 2008 to Mid April 2008 and he says Casey and Caylee slept over many times.

[nana6]

Very true...she even invented a friend, much like a child would do. She invents Zanny...Zanny the Nanny was thought up through the imagination of a childs mind..Caseys mind. Zanny is everything that Casey is not. She comes from a rich family, she is successful, out on her own, a perfect mother, she is made up in Caseys mind as the exact opposite of Casey. Perfect in every way.


From the mind of a child.....Casey's mind

Clearly Casey is a head case so to speak. Everyone get ready because I believe the defense is going to get doctors on the stand who will tell all that Casey is just that- mentally unstable and not responsible for her actions. etc. etc. Also, I believe she was probably diagnosed earlier in life with some mental instability. Watch and see. I truly think this is the only thing that may save her from prison and possibly put her in an institution instead. IMO

[Oregongal]

It's really interesting to hear these tapes again along with some video from the first hearing. How she can sit there in the courtroom and see her heartbroken parents is beyond me. :crying: MOO

Yes it is sun, very interesting considering what has come forth and what we know now.
A whole diff perspective.
How can she sit there and see her heartbroken parents....she doesn't care. Period.

[Pruddennce]

As far as the car, they needed George's permission to seize it. They got it and had it towed. (I just relistened to Yuri's testimony about it.)

It was within 24 hrs of the detectives coming on the case.

They were kind of busy searching for a missing child !! Once they exhausted all hope that Casey was going to cooperate, they turned to the car and got the authority to take it.

yes, the next day, not TWO DAYS LATER like Cindy was telling the press. and she was confronted by LE in her interview about that criticism....a/k/a a lie....cindy's response: that was from HER viewpoint.

the new math...

which goes along with her also berating LE about the timeframe....ITS BEEN TWO WEEKS (they havent found Caylee)....LE corrects THAT point of view as well, its been SIX AND A HALF WEEKS *Cindy conveniently omits the first 31 days her daughter kept her little secret*.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[Mairi II]

It was not an accident. Where are you getting this?

Just yesterday my hubby had a spell. Some kind of seizure (mild) but it was awful! I've never seen such a thing before. He lost consciousness and I thought he could be dying. It was the worst thing! I called 911 immediately. (It turned out okay, he's fine but I was beside myself.)

I can't imagine someone not calling 911 if a loved one's life could be slipping away! And we are talking about a 3 year old here. If there's an accident and you don't call 911 and the person dies and you're watching them die for God's sake you are sick evil person.

I don't understand what's going on here anymore. I check in read a few posts and there's people like....... Oh well so a mother takes off with her kid and the kid is never seen again, and there's decomp smell in the car and the kid is found in a bag in a field while the skank mother sits in jail clinging to a boatload of lies, and she and her so called family have YET to tell the authorities the true circumstances of her death even though six months has passed . No biggie must have been an accident. Couple years in jail and a little therapy and she'll back in the arms of her loving mommy and daddy. Then they will all be missing children advocates and make lots of money.

It's like some people have become so used to the story that the shock and disgust has given way to... Oh well.....maybe it's not so bad.

Casey murdered Caylee in a catathymic rage then drove around with her dead body in the trunk of her car and then wrapped her in a garbage bag and threw her in the woods when the smell became unbearable. She did it because she is a sociopath who has no regard for the rights of others, no remorse and no fear of punishment.

Sorry to hear about your husband, MrsHudson. I am right there with you about Casey's lack of calling 911. That's why I just can't get past that there was more to it... something on Casey's direct part that caused Caylee's death. Sad to say, though, I think the defense could make a case for her being "afraid" to call. :cursing:

[Oregongal]

And now we hear again Cindy throwing blame on others.
:cursing:

[Mimi428]

I am getting this book tomorrow but can you tell me- is a sociopath born that way or are they twisted into being that way. Or can it be both. just asking....


To start off - the words sociopath & psychopath USED to be considered the same, but that has not been true for some years, now.

I am talking psychopath strictly. And there have been numerous studies showing how VERY different the brain functions are of psychopaths from the rest of the regular world.

Here is a page which contains a lot of other links - just look how many articles there are about the studies & the differences - not insignficant by any means, IMO.

http://www.hare.org/links/media.html

Look at the titles -

Psychopathic brains: MRI's show more abnormalities

Twin study traces roots of psychopathic behavior

Brainwave tests reveal abnormalities in psychopathy, conduct disorder

Psychopaths: Findings Point To Brain Differences

Those are just a small sampling.

[PuffDragon]

Listening to the tapes (again) on Nancy's rehashing. What strikes me is the tone of Casey's voice when she's speaking to those officers whose opinion of to her are so important. She was so patronizing to them, as if they were so stupid because they couldn't hear what she kept telling them. I can hear her using that exact same tone of voice in talking to her parents when they tried to pin her down to something like the detectives were trying to do. The difference is, of course, that her parents backed off but the detectives, experienced in confronting lying POIs, had no intention of backing off and kept pressing her. At which point she decided she didn't want to play their game any more and admitted to her lies just to shut them up. She didn't care if she admitted to her lies. There was no sense that she was embarrassed or felt guilt or was caving. She just gave them what they wanted to hear because she knew they weren't going to fall for her act and she wasn't going to waste a lot of energy hanging on to it when it wasn't getting her anywhere. She probably figured she'd be able to put a positive spin on it later. I think it had worked before and she had no thought that it wouldn't work again.
MOO, just the way I see it.

[sunstar]

Yes it is sun, very interesting considering what has come forth and what we know now.
A whole diff perspective.
How can she sit there and see her heartbroken parents....she doesn't care. Period.

And how during one phone call she tells Lee to get her Tony's phone number because talking to her mom is a waste of time. I think that might be the last time my mom would've accepted a collect call from me! :scared: MOO

[Oregongal]

My memory is that Caylee regularly slept in the bed with Casey and Ricardo. But I could be wrong.

It was in the doc dump, first one I believe, Richardo's statement.

[gaelicpeas]

George appeared to be very scared, rightfully so. Cindy IMO was the strong one in the family. Maybe George wanted to get advice from Cindy? I don't believe that he went into cover up/denial mode until after his LE interviews. Just a few theories/thoughts.

Possibly.. but why would George say that to some stranger?

[nana6]

[QUOTE=Oregongal;12607125]I'd like to know who else she lost? Casey was either in jail or out on bond...she wasn't lost.
This statement of hers has always had me going hmmmmm? I always thought that Cindy meant that she already lost Caylee (to death) and she did not want to loose another one (to prison) imo

[gaelicpeas]

Maybe they need a search warrant?? AGAIN, I am not LE...so I don't know how it works. I DID listen to GA's tape with LE & FBI so....why didn't he call from the towyard knowing what he (said himself) smelled? Explain that one. I guess I am a simpleton...I don't understand?

No, you are not a simpleton. What you say makes perfect sense.

[magnolia]

To start off - the words sociopath & psychopath USED to be considered the same, but that has not been true for some years, now.

I am talking psychopath strictly. And there have been numerous studies showing how VERY different the brain functions are of psychopaths from the rest of the regular world.

Here is a page which contains a lot of other links - just look how many articles there are about the studies & the differences - not insignficant by any means, IMO.

http://www.hare.org/links/media.html

Look at the titles -

Psychopathic brains: MRI's show more abnormalities

Twin study traces roots of psychopathic behavior

Brainwave tests reveal abnormalities in psychopathy, conduct disorder

Psychopaths: Findings Point To Brain Differences

Those are just a small sampling.

Interesting stuff and the Amazon book review you posted sounds so much like Casey. (At least what I know of her.) Sounds like a good read.

[legalmania]

Nope....

you have a generic definition......they would have to show intent, that they knew for a fact it was the scene of a crime, that what they did was to cover and mess with a crime scene.

I don't think they have enough to prove obstruction with the car.

IMO

When you call 911 to report a possible crime you don't walk, touch, spray or alter that scene in anyway. The first thing you are told is not to touch or disturb anything. That is why they immediately put the tape around to secure the area from contamination. The first thing they did when they found Caylee was rope off the area and stopped traffic, to preserve the crime scene. They were trying to cover up the smell because they both knew what it was.

[marshmallow]

Sorry, Marshmallow, I guess you missed the last two posts that I made about how I equate Casey to acting like a 14 year old because of the way she was raised, with no responsibility, no job, dropping out of school, partying like she is in high school, lying to get out of trouble, and my list goes on. I was not making a medical assessment, just saying that she is like a 14 year old trapped in the body of a 22 year old and that's how I can see why she would do the things she did up to this point. Still doesn't make her a murderer in my book, and I'm still looking for that one piece of evidence that does.



my bad, I didn't realize it was just your opinion. Sorry about that.

[Oregongal]

I think the same reason why she posted on the myspace page, "the angel" as opposed to "my angel" when she referred to Caylee. Because she knew she was dead. IMHO of course. No proof. Just a hunch.

ITA, my hunch too!

[gaelicpeas]

Hi..

Is this when he said he woke up and Caylee was gone? Wonder where Casey took her?:(
No idea. But it was my impression that Caylee slept with Casey and Ricardo in his bed every time they were there. JMO

[8BellesFan]

I can't wait to see the phone records that Cindy says are missing. I don't believe they were in as much contact as Cindy now says.

[nana6]

:w00t: Like a 14 year old trapped inside a 22 year old body! That's what I've been saying!

Oh yes, I agree with you. AND i believe they will throw in some mental reason why she acts like she does with no conscience (spelled wrong I am sure )!! This will all have to go to mental issues to save her imo

[aubrey04]

What bed was Caylee sleeping in? All I know is not only wasn't she sleeping in her own bed, she was removed from her home and was apparently homeless, sleeping on couches at adult parties.

I can't believe she was subjected to that environment but I can't say that I haven't seen it before. A few years ago when I was younger I went to a house party and a girl brought her 3 year old boy there. Of course the boy couldn't sleep, so he was up in the middle of the party. I was so disgusted that I left the party. I just couldn't believe that an adult would have a child in that environment.

I definitely understand why Tony was opposed to Caylee sleeping over.

[Oregongal]

To start off - the words sociopath & psychopath USED to be considered the same, but that has not been true for some years, now.

I am talking psychopath strictly. And there have been numerous studies showing how VERY different the brain functions are of psychopaths from the rest of the regular world.

Here is a page which contains a lot of other links - just look how many articles there are about the studies & the differences - not insignficant by any means, IMO.

http://www.hare.org/links/media.html

Look at the titles -

Psychopathic brains: MRI's show more abnormalities

Twin study traces roots of psychopathic behavior

Brainwave tests reveal abnormalities in psychopathy, conduct disorder

Psychopaths: Findings Point To Brain Differences

Those are just a small sampling.

Thanks for this link Mimi. I bookmarked it so I can delve into it deeper later.

[Calla]

Thanks, just ordered it. One can really understand how people without a conscience live and work around us. Truly remarkable. IMO

And the scary part...

they are teachers and preachers and doctors and law officials and the nice neighbors and my sister or someone's brother...

and in this case Cindy's daughter.

It is hard to tell.

[*MoonRider*]

Watching Cindy explain why she is not visiting Casey. Cindy says." It is in the best interest of Caylee's safety....it hurts me not to see Casey. But it is all about Caylee's safety"

Ok Cindy....Caylee is now proven dead.....why not go see your daughter now??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jose said no. He is the genius attorney after all.

[mosey2]

Maybe they need a search warrant?? AGAIN, I am not LE...so I don't know how it works. I DID listen to GA's tape with LE & FBI so....why didn't he call from the towyard knowing what he (said himself) smelled? Explain that one. I guess I am a simpleton...I don't understand?
It seems to me that George's behaviour is dictated by Cindy's instruction.
After he drove the car home, Cindy donned her scrub-woman role and sent George back to work.
I believe neither Cindy or George ever believed it was rotting garbage causing the smell, and immediately started batting clean-up for precious PPOF. Isnt denial the first stage of grief?

[8BellesFan]

I can't believe she was subjected to that environment but I can't say that I haven't seen it before. A few years ago when I was younger I went to a house party and a girl brought her 3 year old boy there. Of course the boy couldn't sleep, so he was up in the middle of the party. I was so disgusted that I left the party. I just couldn't believe that an adult would have a child in that environment.

I definitely understand why Tony was opposed to Caylee sleeping over.

and very inconvenient for Casey

[nana6]

Watching Cindy explain why she is not visiting Casey. Cindy says." It is in the best interest of Caylee's safety....it hurts me not to see Casey. But it is all about Caylee's safety"

Ok Cindy....Caylee is now proven dead.....why not go see your daughter now??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

imo because she knows what her daughter did to Caylee and she cannot stand to look at her

[bchand]

Who works at the Lexus dealership that she was texting?


I "think" but am not positive, that those calls were determined to be her mother's place of employment (not that she worked at Lexus). Hopefully, someone else will be able to clear it up.

[Daffodil]

I refer to my deceased g/daughter as my baby angel and my living g/daughter as my darling angel. I don't think you can assume by the term used in that post that Cindy knew Caylee was dead. JMVHO.

If you didn't notice, you put "my" in front of baby angel and darling angel. How would it sound if you said it as The baby agnel or the darling angel. By using the word "my" you are claiming them as yours. The A's have used "the" quite a bit. In a way, at least for me, it is like they are detaching themselves from her or were never attached in the first place.

[*MoonRider*]

And the scary part...

they are teachers and preachers and doctors and law officials and the nice neighbors and my sister or someone's brother...

and in this case Cindy's daughter.

It is hard to tell.

They walk among us everyday. They are not crazy, just evil. IMO