Jan. 2 - Jan. 12

[Lindsey]

May 2009 bring Justice for Michelle and her family and friends.

[Lindsey]

Brought over from the last thread. Good points Cardinal and Silsbee.


Originally Posted by Cardinal
I don't think Michelle had yet gone to bed that night. I think she was still up and about, dealing with all the last-minute preparations for the Homecoming Weekend house party. Maybe the killer was surprised that she was still up.

I still think the point being made in the SW was that Michelle's keys were - atypically - on the kitchen counter. And maybe Meredith put her keys on the hood of the SUV when she was leaving the house - after picking them up from the kitchen counter. She was likely carrying Cassidy, and would have needed a free hand to raise the garage door. At that point, she probably didn't care where she laid the keys. If, after raising the door, she was met with arriving WCSO officers, she might not have picked up her keys afterward. I don't imagine she was allowed back into the house after that, and I think her car is the one referenced in the N&O article, so she apparently didn't drive home. So maybe her keys were returned to her later by LE, and she never realized where she left them.

Good Morning Card. I also believe that Michelle had not yet gone to bed - it's just a feeling based on some of the info we know.

I still have the same question - was Michelle's car backed in? Wasn't there something closer to lay her keys on rather than the hood of Michelle's car? Actually I think I would have put Cassie down then opened the garage door.

Why didn't LE just ask Meredith about the keys? There was a reason it was included in the SW. If the issue was already resolved then why did they need to reference it at all?

I am curious to know at what point LE knew the keys were MF's? They seemed to still be confused about the issue of the keys in the summer of 2007.

Sils

[Leanne Weich]

I think Cardinal is right . I think the killer backed MY's car out and pulled theirs in the garage. I think at this point the killer loaded the kid in MY's car and took off. I think when she returned she backed her car out of the garage and then laid her keys on the hood of MY car. After she pulled MY's car back in the garage she was busy getting the child out and forgot the keys. Thats why the keys she pitched on the counter were MY's keys. Thats the last car she drove. I can see no other way the mix up in the keys would work. I think LE in spite of the friendship between her and one of their own is suspicious of her. Why put that stuff in a warrant if they were not?

If that is the case, why do you suppose no SWs have been issued in Meredith's name and that LE continue to issue SWs pertaining to JY only. Also, as far as I can ascertain, the friendship between Meredith and Det. Spivey is a business related friendship as opposed to a deep personal relationship. This is not abnormal during the course of an investigation for family of the victim to become "friendly" with officer/s working the case, imo. My brother was killed 27 years ago and I still exchange Christmas cards with the lead investigator on his case and speak to him and, occasionally, have lunch with him when I'm back in South Africa.

My guess as to why that was put in the SW is because the crime scene photos will have to be handed to the defence at discovery and they are keeping this case all tidy and 100% above board.

[Cardinal]

I think Cardinal is right . I think the killer backed MY's car out and pulled theirs in the garage. I think at this point the killer loaded the kid in MY's car and took off. I think when she returned she backed her car out of the garage and then laid her keys on the hood of MY car. After she pulled MY's car back in the garage she was busy getting the child out and forgot the keys. Thats why the keys she pitched on the counter were MY's keys. Thats the last car she drove. I can see no other way the mix up in the keys would work. I think LE in spite of the friendship between her and one of their own is suspicious of her. Why put that stuff in a warrant if they were not?

In addition to the posts by onederwomyn and Leanne, don't you think the keys would have fallen off the hood onto the driveway if the car were driven?

Also, by your theory, Meredith's car was in the driveway from the time she returned with Cassidy until the WCSO arrived - she couldn't have left the house, her keys were on Michelle's car. Don't you think it was a little risky to leave her car in the driveway all that time?

[Cardinal]

Hi, Sils,

I would think that Meredith had to walk past Michelle's car to get to the garage door, and would have been standing beside it at that time. Regardless of the position of the car, the hood of an SUV would have been the most likely surface to place the keys.

As for putting Cassidy down, under normal circumstances, maybe. But at that point, my guess is that Meredith was in her version of "grabbing the child and running out of the house", and I doubt she would have released her under those circumstances. Besides, if the WCSO were arriving with sirens screaming, Cassidy may have bee clinging to Meredith.

I still think the PC in the SW was designed to justify a SW for Michelle's SUV, and that the issue was more the location of Michelle's keys than Meredith's. Regardless, it seems their confusion has been cleared up, since there has been no mention of the keys in subsequent warrants.

All JMO

[Silsbee]

I think Cardinal is right . I think the killer backed MY's car out and pulled theirs in the garage. I think at this point the killer loaded the kid in MY's car and took off. I think when she returned she backed her car out of the garage and then laid her keys on the hood of MY car. After she pulled MY's car back in the garage she was busy getting the child out and forgot the keys. Thats why the keys she pitched on the counter were MY's keys. Thats the last car she drove. I can see no other way the mix up in the keys would work. I think LE in spite of the friendship between her and one of their own is suspicious of her. Why put that stuff in a warrant if they were not?

I can't imagine anyone going through this much trouble - not even Jason.

Sils

[annalyzer]

Brought over from the last thread. Good points Cardinal and Silsbee.



Good Morning Card. I also believe that Michelle had not yet gone to bed - it's just a feeling based on some of the info we know.

I still have the same question - was Michelle's car backed in? Wasn't there something closer to lay her keys on rather than the hood of Michelle's car? Actually I think I would have put Cassie down then opened the garage door.
Why didn't LE just ask Meredith about the keys? There was a reason it was included in the SW. If the issue was already resolved then why did they need to reference it at all?

I am curious to know at what point LE knew the keys were MF's? They seemed to still be confused about the issue of the keys in the summer of 2007.

Sils

What was she doing holding Cassie when she arrived at Michelle's house?

[Silsbee]

Hi, Sils,

I would think that Meredith had to walk past Michelle's car to get to the garage door, and would have been standing beside it at that time. Regardless of the position of the car, the hood of an SUV would have been the most likely surface to place the keys.

As for putting Cassidy down, under normal circumstances, maybe. But at that point, my guess is that Meredith was in her version of "grabbing the child and running out of the house", and I doubt she would have released her under those circumstances. Besides, if the WCSO were arriving with sirens screaming, Cassidy may have bee clinging to Meredith.

I still think the PC in the SW was designed to justify a SW for Michelle's SUV, and that the issue was more the location of Michelle's keys than Meredith's. Regardless, it seems their confusion has been cleared up, since there has been no mention of the keys in subsequent warrants.

All JMO

I guess everyone was busy today - not much happening tonight.

I also thought of the fact that the garage door should have already been opened when she left the house with CY. There really would have been no reason to lay them down.

The fact that she was murdered isn't enough to look at her car? So do you think Michelle's keys weren't suppose to be in that location? I am wondering how they would know that.

The bottom line of the SW was to obtain blood evidence to show Cassie was removed from the home after the murder. Who do you think they thought took CY from the home?

Sils

[Cardinal]

I guess everyone was busy today - not much happening tonight.

~snipped for emphasis~

The bottom line of the SW was to obtain blood evidence to show Cassie was removed from the home after the murder. Who do you think they thought took CY from the home?

Sils

I think they thought Jason's accomplice removed Cassidy from the house.

Whether or not that's true, I don't know.

[Silsbee]

What was she doing holding Cassie when she arrived at Michelle's house?

This was actually in response to Card thinking that when MF left with CY she laid her keys on Michelle's car in order to open the garage door but after thinking about it I don't think the garage door needed to be opened. I think it stayed open after MF got there.

Sils

[annalyzer]

This was actually in response to Card thinking that when MF left with CY she laid her keys on Michelle's car in order to open the garage door but after thinking about it I don't think the garage door needed to be opened. I think it stayed open after MF got there.

Sils

Oh ok Sils.

[Lindsey]

I guess everyone was busy today - not much happening tonight.

I also thought of the fact that the garage door should have already been opened when she left the house with CY. There really would have been no reason to lay them down.

The fact that she was murdered isn't enough to look at her car? So do you think Michelle's keys weren't suppose to be in that location? I am wondering how they would know that.

The bottom line of the SW was to obtain blood evidence to show Cassie was removed from the home after the murder. Who do you think they thought took CY from the home?

Sils


Hey Sils,

Yes, very busy day recovering from the holidays. Hope yours were good.

Why do you think they waited 8 months to check Michelle's SUV for blood evidence? It's been posted here many times that her car was being driven all those months, Nov - July. Do you think it was after new investigators came on the case and noticed some 'oddities' in the crime scene photos? Nothing else makes sense to me.

I can't help but wonder what else they might have missed in those early days, weeks, and months that could have made a difference in solving this case and having the evidence to prove it, whether it was Jason or someone else.

All JMO

[JD1974]

This was actually in response to Card thinking that when MF left with CY she laid her keys on Michelle's car in order to open the garage door but after thinking about it I don't think the garage door needed to be opened. I think it stayed open after MF got there.

Sils


What bothers me is this, when Meredith got the the house she was not in a panic, she had no reason to be..as far as she knew nothing was wrong. So why does she not remember doing it? Why does she say she put her keys on the counter, still no reason to panic at this point...she may have thought some things looked odd but she was thinking normally at this point. Normally you put keys on the counter as you are entering the house, when Meredith entered the house she had no idea what had happened yet, so why did she not remember putting Michelle's keys on the counter and her keys on the car? It had to be her that did it because it was her normal spot to put her keys, they just happened to be Michelles.

I can understand after finding Michelle and panicking that she would maybe confuse the keys, but by the time she found Michelle she had already mixed up the keys, there was no panic at that time...therefore she should of been able to recall what she had done with the keys.

[tiny paw-prints]

I'm hoping the custody hearing reveals some more information about Michelle's killer and surrounding facts leading up to night she was murdered.

[Cardinal]

What bothers me is this, when Meredith got the the house she was not in a panic, she had no reason to be..as far as she knew nothing was wrong. So why does she not remember doing it? Why does she say she put her keys on the counter, still no reason to panic at this point...she may have thought some things looked odd but she was thinking normally at this point. Normally you put keys on the counter as you are entering the house, when Meredith entered the house she had no idea what had happened yet, so why did she not remember putting Michelle's keys on the counter and her keys on the car? It had to be her that did it because it was her normal spot to put her keys, they just happened to be Michelles.

I can understand after finding Michelle and panicking that she would maybe confuse the keys, but by the time she found Michelle she had already mixed up the keys, there was no panic at that time...therefore she should of been able to recall what she had done with the keys.

Where does it say that Meredith put Michelle's keys on the counter?

And how do you know when Meredith's keys were laid on Michelle's car? I mean, how do you know they were put there when she entered the house as opposed to when she was leaving the house?

[Barbara2]

Where does it say that Meredith put Michelle's keys on the counter?

And how do you know when Meredith's keys were laid on Michelle's car? I mean, how do you know they were put there when she entered the house as opposed to when she was leaving the house?

Not to mention that she may have been just slightly thrown off when she got to the house and found Michelle's car in the driveway. She was under the impression that Michelle was not at home. Add to that the dog "freaking out" in whatever capacity that happened would have been unnerving, IMO.

[Barbara2]

Not to mention that she may have been just slightly thrown off when she got to the house and found Michelle's car in the driveway. She was under the impression that Michelle was not at home. Add to that the dog "freaking out" in whatever capacity that happened would have been unnerving, IMO.

I meant the garage. (Have to correct before the "nitpickers" show up.)

[annalyzer]

I'm hoping the custody hearing reveals some more information about Michelle's killer and surrounding facts leading up to night she was murdered.


Me too. When is the hearing again?

[enigma™]

me too. When is the hearing again?

2/4/09 iirc

[Hey Paula]

What bothers me is this, when Meredith got the the house she was not in a panic, she had no reason to be..as far as she knew nothing was wrong. So why does she not remember doing it? Why does she say she put her keys on the counter, still no reason to panic at this point...she may have thought some things looked odd but she was thinking normally at this point. Normally you put keys on the counter as you are entering the house, when Meredith entered the house she had no idea what had happened yet, so why did she not remember putting Michelle's keys on the counter and her keys on the car? It had to be her that did it because it was her normal spot to put her keys, they just happened to be Michelles.

I can understand after finding Michelle and panicking that she would maybe confuse the keys, but by the time she found Michelle she had already mixed up the keys, there was no panic at that time...therefore she should of been able to recall what she had done with the keys.

I think Meredith might have been feeling some apprehension when she arrived at the house, saw that Michelle's vehicle was there (when her sister should have been working) and the dog was "freaking out". She must have wondered why Michelle wasn't tending to the dog, since she was home. It would have been a normal reaction for Meredith to put/throw her keys on the closest thing (Michelle's car) if the dog was jumping all over her ("freaking out") and to have forgotten them there after she went upstairs (likely to find Michelle) and witnessed the horror.

Meredith likely remained at the house for several hours, waiting for LE and being interviewed by them. I imagine many people would have forgotten or not have been consciously aware of where they'd put their keys after undergoing such a horrific tragedy. But because it's Meredith's habit to put her keys on the kitchen counter, she could've easily thought Michelle's keys were hers. I have no doubt I would've done the same if, God forbid, I were in Meredith's shoes.

[JHP]

I think Meredith might have been feeling some apprehension when she arrived at the house, saw that Michelle's vehicle was there (when her sister should have been working) and the dog was "freaking out". She must have wondered why Michelle wasn't tending to the dog, since she was home. It would have been a normal reaction for Meredith to put/throw her keys on the closest thing (Michelle's car) if the dog was jumping all over her ("freaking out") and to have forgotten them there after she went upstairs (likely to find Michelle) and witnessed the horror.

Meredith likely remained at the house for several hours, waiting for LE and being interviewed by them. I imagine many people would have forgotten or not have been consciously aware of where they'd put their keys after undergoing such a horrific tragedy. But because it's Meredith's habit to put her keys on the kitchen counter, she could've easily thought Michelle's keys were hers. I have no doubt I would've done the same if, God forbid, I were in Meredith's shoes.

Maybe she even laid the keys on the car thinking she could sneak in without Michelle knowing. Her keys might jingle. Remember she was supposed to be getting a "secret document" for Jason.

I just don't think the placement of the keys is a big deal AT ALL and I don't think after seeing the S/W's that we have Meredith is a suspect in the least.

I think the next month will be very telling. It will be interesting to see if Cassidy is important enough to fight for. Or if Jason's freedom is the most important of all.

JMO

[Hey Paula]

Maybe she even laid the keys on the car thinking she could sneak in without Michelle knowing. Her keys might jingle. Remember she was supposed to be getting a "secret document" for Jason.

I just don't think the placement of the keys is a big deal AT ALL and I don't think after seeing the S/W's that we have Meredith is a suspect in the least.

I think the next month will be very telling. It will be interesting to see if Cassidy is important enough to fight for. Or if Jason's freedom is the most important of all.

JMO

ITA, as I don't believe the keys are an issue with LE. I believe it's mentioned in the s/w only because the crime scene photos show a set of keys on "the victim's vehicle", which requires an explanation, especially from a Defense standpoint; nothing more, nothing less.

I also believe JY will be arrested after the custody suit matter is settled. I think Woodrow Wilson's line is appropriate re how LE/DA views this: "Never murder a man who is committing suicide." JY is piling on the CE for the DA's case through his inaction, e.g., failure to collect the proceeds from Michelle's life insurance policy, failure to respond to the WDS, and his likely failure to personally respond to the custody suit.

Because JY neglected to respond to the WDS, thereby allowing himself to be deemed "the slayer" of Cassidy's mother, which this poor child will learn as she matures, I don't think he will personally respond to the custody suit either. I believe JY is totally absorbed in protecting himself; nothing and no one else truly matters.

IMO

[Cardinal]

Maybe she even laid the keys on the car thinking she could sneak in without Michelle knowing. Her keys might jingle. Remember she was supposed to be getting a "secret document" for Jason.

I just don't think the placement of the keys is a big deal AT ALL and I don't think after seeing the S/W's that we have Meredith is a suspect in the least.

I think the next month will be very telling. It will be interesting to see if Cassidy is important enough to fight for. Or if Jason's freedom is the most important of all.

JMO

I think the upcoming custody matter is much more interesting than the keys. Doesn't Jason have to file a response within 30 days of having been served with the suit? That's less than 2 weeks away.

And I think you've pinpointed the crux of the matter - Is Cassidy more important to Jason than maintaining his silence and distance from Michelle's murder?

[Marfa]

Also, if the Lexus had been driven that day by anyone who had a hand in the carnage upstairs LE would have found blood evidence in it and we'd know it by now. All this speculation of pulling the Lexus in and out of the garage and the Honda back and forth really seems unlikelyl, IMO... I vaguely remember reading way back that both the Lexus and Honda were impounded that day anyway. Anyone remember that ?

Likewise, if Jason truly had a hand in this carnage, would his vehicle not have had some sort of blood evidence in it as well. Wouldn't the same conclusion apply to all parties under suspicion?

[Cardinal]

Likewise, if Jason truly had a hand in this carnage, would his vehicle not have had some sort of blood evidence in it as well. Wouldn't the same conclusion apply to all parties under suspicion?

I think a distinction can be made for someone who had a closet full of clean clothes at the scene.

[Hey Paula]

Likewise, if Jason truly had a hand in this carnage, would his vehicle not have had some sort of blood evidence in it as well. Wouldn't the same conclusion apply to all parties under suspicion?

When this case was being discussed in the media, I recall it being mentioned that blood was found on/in JY's vehicle.

[Marfa]

I also believe JY will be arrested after the custody suit matter is settled.
IMO

Seems to me the "custody suit matter" would be settled far quicker in Linda's favor if Jason were to be arrested and charged. I can't believe LE or the DA lazy enough to wait for a civil matter settlement to pursue a criminal matter that was so heinous.

[Marfa]

When this case was being discussed in the media, I recall it being mentioned that blood was found on/in JY's vehicle.

I think when this was being discussed in the media, the supposed blood evidence had to be tested to determine if it actually was blood and the results of those tests were never publicly revealed.

[Hey Paula]

Seems to me the "custody suit matter" would be settled far quicker in Linda's favor if Jason were to be arrested and charged. I can't believe LE or the DA lazy enough to wait for a civil matter settlement to pursue a criminal matter that was so heinous.

JY's failure to act in both civil matters is additional and substantial CE, which can be used in the criminal trial, via testimony from Linda Fisher, if JY refuses to testify in his own defense.

IMO

[Hey Paula]

I think when this was being discussed in the media, the supposed blood evidence had to be tested to determine if it actually was blood and the results of those tests were never publicly revealed.

Yes, I know, and I wonder why it was never publicly revealed.

[Leanne Weich]

Seems to me the "custody suit matter" would be settled far quicker in Linda's favor if Jason were to be arrested and charged. I can't believe LE or the DA lazy enough to wait for a civil matter settlement to pursue a criminal matter that was so heinous.

ITA and do agree with (I think it was Lindsey) who said the fresh eyes brought in to look at the case have found something that doesn't add up. I think they may feel that this was a hit and are looking into that or that he had an accomplice who helped in the clean up.

[JHP]

I think the upcoming custody matter is much more interesting than the keys. Doesn't Jason have to file a response within 30 days of having been served with the suit? That's less than 2 weeks away.

And I think you've pinpointed the crux of the matter - Is Cassidy more important to Jason than maintaining his silence and distance from Michelle's murder?

January 17, is the date that was posted here as the due date. However thats a saturday. So maybe it's the 19th, anyhow it will be quite interesting. We probably won't find out until February 4 what the response is will we?
I think we will find out alot if Jason chooses to answer, like who his attorney is for this. If it's Smith or someone from his practice.
He will be deposed at some point and also have to go through an evaluation.

The next month will be interesting.
I think the Young family took the will as being the final answer to Cassidy's custody. I hope that isn't the case here.

JMO

[JHP]

ITA, as I don't believe the keys are an issue with LE. I believe it's mentioned in the s/w only because the crime scene photos show a set of keys on "the victim's vehicle", which requires an explanation, especially from a Defense standpoint; nothing more, nothing less.

I also believe JY will be arrested after the custody suit matter is settled. I think Woodrow Wilson's line is appropriate re how LE/DA views this: "Never murder a man who is committing suicide." JY is piling on the CE for the DA's case through his inaction, e.g., failure to collect the proceeds from Michelle's life insurance policy, failure to respond to the WDS, and his likely failure to personally respond to the custody suit.

Because JY neglected to respond to the WDS, thereby allowing himself to be deemed "the slayer" of Cassidy's mother, which this poor child will learn as she matures, I don't think he will personally respond to the custody suit either. I believe JY is totally absorbed in protecting himself; nothing and no one else truly matters.

IMO

I know, But a big question for me is did his legal advisor tell him not to respond?
Was it his great attorney Mr. Smith? Different legal advice? or did he make this foolish decision on his own?

Poor Cassidy I feel for her and the Fishers every day.
JMO

[Cardinal]

January 17, is the date that was posted here as the due date. However thats a saturday. So maybe it's the 19th, anyhow it will be quite interesting. We probably won't find out until February 4 what the response is will we?
I think we will find out alot if Jason chooses to answer, like who his attorney is for this. If it's Smith or someone from his practice.
He will be deposed at some point and also have to go through an evaluation.

The next month will be interesting.
I think the Young family took the will as being the final answer to Cassidy's custody. I hope that isn't the case here.

JMO

I don't think the guardianship recommendation in Michelle's Will will be a huge factor. In the first place, the recommendation was made in the event Jason predeceased Michelle. In the second place, it's only a recommendation and is not binding. In the third place, unless one of the Youngs also files for custody, I don't think they're a party to the proceeding.

JMO

[Silsbee]

I think the upcoming custody matter is much more interesting than the keys. Doesn't Jason have to file a response within 30 days of having been served with the suit? That's less than 2 weeks away.

And I think you've pinpointed the crux of the matter - Is Cassidy more important to Jason than maintaining his silence and distance from Michelle's murder?

I think the custody case will definitely be more interesting. What does Jason have to do in regards to a response? Also is it unusual that Linda and Meredith are filing suit together? Will the fact that Linda lives in NY and Meredith lives in NC be of concern to the court? IIRC somewhere in the suit it says they are filing jointly/individually. Who exactly is trying to get physical custody?

Sils

[Hey Paula]

I know, But a big question for me is did his legal advisor tell him not to respond?
Was it his great attorney Mr. Smith? Different legal advice? or did he make this foolish decision on his own?

Poor Cassidy I feel for her and the Fishers every day.
JMO

In the end, I don't think it truly matters what legal advice someone receives. Everyone has a free will, and if his daughter's perception of him were paramount, he would not have allowed himself to be deemed her mother's murderer, especially if he is innocent. JY's nonresponse is powerful CE, as it will also be if he fails to personally respond to the custody suit.

Regardless of his attorney's advice, I believe Linda Fisher can testify to JY's failure to respond to the civil matters.

My heart breaks for them too. Cassidy and the Fishers are victims too in this tragedy.

IMO

[JHP]

I don't think the guardianship recommendation in Michelle's Will will be a huge factor. In the first place, the recommendation was made in the event Jason predeceased Michelle. In the second place, it's only a recommendation and is not binding. In the third place, unless one of the Youngs also files for custody, I don't think they're a party to the proceeding.

JMO

I was hoping that under the circumstances it would not be a factor.

The next few weeks will be busy. I hope for Cassidys sake a good decision is made.

[bookie]

Yes, I know, and I wonder why it was never publicly revealed.



Because it turned out not to be blood is my guess.

[JHP]

In the end, I don't think it truly matters what legal advice someone receives. Everyone has a free will, and if his daughter's perception of him were paramount, he would not have allowed himself to be deemed her mother's murderer, especially if he is innocent. JY's nonresponse is powerful CE, as it will also be if he fails to personally respond to the custody suit.

Regardless of his attorney's advice, I believe Linda Fisher can testify to JY's failure to respond to the civil matters.

My heart breaks for them too. Cassidy and the Fishers are victims too in this tragedy.

IMO

Oh, I happen to think there are some really top notch lawyers out there and some just mediocre ones.
You have a fool for a client if you represnt yourself.

I think whoevers idea it was not to respond to the Slayer charge was foolish.
JMO

[Hey Paula]

Because it turned out not to be blood is my guess.

Either that, or LE doesn't want to publicly confirm blood was found on/in JY's vehicle, nor for JY/his attorney to know it.

Due to the amount blood at the crime scene, even if JY took a shower, it's conceivable that some blood might have still been found on/his JY's vehicle, which could have either been his or Michelle's.

IMO

[Lindsey]

I think a distinction can be made for someone who had a closet full of clean clothes at the scene.

I think MF probably could have wore some of Jason's sweat clothes if she wanted/needed to. At least long enough to go home and change into fresh clothes of her own. And since she and Michelle were the same height, she probably could have worn Michelle's shoes. Not sure about that tho since MF was much heavier at that point.

I'm not saying any of this did happen, just saying MF could have had access to a closet full of clean clothes, the same as JY.

IMO

[Lindsey]

When this case was being discussed in the media, I recall it being mentioned that blood was found on/in JY's vehicle.

I believe it was described as 'blood like' spots in the SW, or something like that. It's never been said by an official that blood was found in or on JY's vehicle. I personally don't believe it was found to be blood since his vehicle was returned to him very quickly, IIRC. Also, that's one more on the list of reasons 'he would be arrested by now' if it were true.

All JMO

[bookie]

Either that, or LE doesn't want to publicly confirm blood was found on/in JY's vehicle, nor for JY/his attorney to know it.

Due to the amount blood at the crime scene, even if JY took a shower, it's conceivable that some blood might have still been found on/his JY's vehicle, which could have either been his or Michelle's.

IMO



If Michelle's blood had been found in or on his car he'd have been arrested long ago. Added to the bloody footprints found on the pillow it would have placed Jason in the home during the murder and not out of town.

[Lindsey]

Seems to me the "custody suit matter" would be settled far quicker in Linda's favor if Jason were to be arrested and charged. I can't believe LE or the DA lazy enough to wait for a civil matter settlement to pursue a criminal matter that was so heinous.


This makes sense to me. Good point.

[bookie]

I believe it was described as 'blood like' spots in the SW, or something like that. It's never been said by an official that blood was found in or on JY's vehicle. I personally don't believe it was found to be blood since his vehicle was returned to him very quickly, IIRC. Also, that's one more on the list of reasons 'he would be arrested by now' if it were true.

All JMO



From memory it was a spot of what appeared to be blood on the outside of his truck.

[Lindsey]

JY's failure to act in both civil matters is additional and substantial CE, which can be used in the criminal trial, via testimony from Linda Fisher, if JY refuses to testify in his own defense.

IMO

I think this is incorrect. It's been posted over and over the civil matters cannot be entered into any possible criminal case, should there ever be one. Sorry I don't have a link to the statues.


Sunday afternoon nap calling. BBL

[Cardinal]

I think the custody case will definitely be more interesting. What does Jason have to do in regards to a response? Also is it unusual that Linda and Meredith are filing suit together? Will the fact that Linda lives in NY and Meredith lives in NC be of concern to the court? IIRC somewhere in the suit it says they are filing jointly/individually. Who exactly is trying to get physical custody?

Sils

I believe Jason has to respond to each of the 22 allegations in the suit - which include being named Michelle's slayer under NC law, not cooperating with the murder investigation, being unemployed, not providing Cassidy with a stable living environment, denying Cassidy contact with her maternal family, multiple extramarital affairs, and his party tricks.

I think both Linda and Meredith filing for custody is unusual. My guess is that the joint status is designed to overcome issues with Linda's age and Meredith being single. I have no idea what the intentions are regarding physical custody.

[Cardinal]

I was hoping that under the circumstances it would not be a factor.

The next few weeks will be busy. I hope for Cassidys sake a good decision is made.

I hope so too, JHP. At this point, IMO, that's the most important thing.

[Cardinal]

I think MF probably could have wore some of Jason's sweat clothes if she wanted/needed to. At least long enough to go home and change into fresh clothes of her own. And since she and Michelle were the same height, she probably could have worn Michelle's shoes. Not sure about that tho since MF was much heavier at that point.

I'm not saying any of this did happen, just saying MF could have had access to a closet full of clean clothes, the same as JY.

IMO

I don't mean to be disparaging, but I don't think Meredith would have fit into Jason's clothes.

[bookie]

I think this is incorrect. It's been posted over and over the civil matters cannot be entered into any possible criminal case, should there ever be one. Sorry I don't have a link to the statues.


Sunday afternoon nap calling. BBL


In an article right after the ruling the DA said the civil suit would have no bearing on the criminal investigation.

[Hey Paula]

If Michelle's blood had been found in or on his car he'd have been arrested long ago. Added to the bloody footprints found on the pillow it would have placed Jason in the home during the murder and not out of town.

If blood was actually found, it might have been JY's blood, not Michelle's. That happened in Laci Peterson's case. Scott Peterson's blood was found on and in his vehicle and on the toolbox, to which he claimed he often cut his hands working as a fertilizer salesman.

[bookie]

If blood was actually found, it might have been JY's blood, not Michelle's. That happened in Laci Peterson's case. Scott Peterson's blood was found on and in his vehicle and on the toolbox, to which he claimed he often cut his hands working as a fertilizer salesman.



Either way whatever was found had nothing to do with the murder imo. Jason didn't have any cuts on his body so if it was his blood it was from before the murder.

[im4justice]

I think MF probably could have wore some of Jason's sweat clothes if she wanted/needed to. At least long enough to go home and change into fresh clothes of her own. And since she and Michelle were the same height, she probably could have worn Michelle's shoes. Not sure about that tho since MF was much heavier at that point.

I'm not saying any of this did happen, just saying MF could have had access to a closet full of clean clothes, the same as JY.

IMO
Does anyone know for a fact if Meredith had a roomate at that time? I keep thinking someone had made mention of that before that she did. If she did I think the theory of her returning home is unlikely. IMO

[Cardinal]

Does anyone know for a fact if Meredith had a roomate at that time? I keep thinking someone had made mention of that before that she did. If she did I think the theory of her returning home is unlikely. IMO

I vaguely remember hearing something about a roommate, but don't know if it's true. If it is, that's likely her alibi.

But I don't think whether or not there were any clothes at Birchleaf that Meredith could have worn - or for that matter, confusion about keys or a 911 call - outweighs the CE against Jason. Besides, there's no doubt in my mind that if there were any real evidence of Meredith's involvement in Michelle's murder, Jason's family and friends would have made a beeline for the WCSO long before now. Especially since they would have read the PC in that SW in July 07 when it was executed. I mean, wouldn't they want her held accountable???

Instead, they've allowed Jason to be declared a "slayer" and stand to lose custody of Cassidy to Meredith and Linda. If there is anything at all substantive to indicate Meredith's involvement, somebody better come forward fast.

JMO

[Cardinal]

ITA -- if there was truly anything damning against someone other than JY, I have no doubt the JY and the Youngs would be all over LE like flies on crap asking them to get to the bottom of it. If Jason had any suspicion of anyone, he too could have voiced this to LE. Has he ever? To our knowledge, NO.

Jason is, as is his right, keeping silent. But his mother telephoned NCW to protest their calling Jason a suspect, and, according to the SWs, Kim visits internet forums dealing with the murder. There are those who claim she has posted here, in fact.

So it appears that Jason's mother and sister are not averse to speaking up in his defense. If they have information indicating Meredith's involvement, why aren't they sharing it with LE?

[alter ego]

In the end, I don't think it truly matters what legal advice someone receives. Everyone has a free will, and if his daughter's perception of him were paramount, he would not have allowed himself to be deemed her mother's murderer, especially if he is innocent. JY's nonresponse is powerful CE, as it will also be if he fails to personally respond to the custody suit.

Regardless of his attorney's advice, I believe Linda Fisher can testify to JY's failure to respond to the civil matters.

My heart breaks for them too. Cassidy and the Fishers are victims too in this tragedy.

IMOFree will or not, if someone takes advice of counsel it is not evidence of anything and certainly can't be offered in a court of law as incriminating. As per my understanding.

[alter ego]

Jason is, as is his right, keeping silent. But his mother telephoned NCW to protest their calling Jason a suspect, and, according to the SWs, Kim visits internet forums dealing with the murder. There are those who claim she has posted here, in fact.

So it appears that Jason's mother and sister are not averse to speaking up in his defense. If they have information indicating Meredith's involvement, why aren't they sharing it with LE?
What makes you think they haven't? Let's not forget the lead investigator has already solved the case in his mind. So why would he be open to anything that might tend to prove he is wrong?

[Cardinal]

What makes you think they haven't? Let's not forget the lead investigator has already solved the case in his mind. So why would he be open to anything that might tend to prove he is wrong?

Do you really think the lead investigator in Michelle's case would value his mindset more than justice for her? Do you not think that, after seeing that crime scene and talking to Michelle's family and friends and understanding what an unfathomable loss had occurred, he wouldn't do anything necessary to achieve justice for her? Regardless of what that meant?

If you do, then obviously nothing will convince you otherwise. That's fine. But I don't believe that for a minute.

[Nellikat]

Why would any one in the Young family have any more evidence against MF than LE would have?

Maybe because there isn't any.

JMO.

[Cardinal]

Why would any one in the Young family have any more evidence against MF than LE would have?

Well there you have it. I don't believe LE has any evidence against Meredith. If they did, we'd have seen SWs directed at her. And we wouldn't have seen the lead investigator testify under oath that he believes Jason killed Michelle.

As for the Young family and their friends, I believe that if they could direct suspicion at anyone other than Jason, based upon even the weakest reasoning, they would have.

Hmmm....maybe they have. On message boards.

JMO

[kingbuff]

Well there you have it. I don't believe LE has any evidence against Meredith. If they did, we'd have seen SWs directed at her. And we wouldn't have seen the lead investigator testify under oath that he believes Jason killed Michelle.

As for the Young family and their friends, I believe that if they could direct suspicion at anyone other than Jason, based upon even the weakest reasoning, they would have.

Hmmm....maybe they have. On message boards.

JMO

Or....maybe the police have been so focused on Jason from the beginning that they will not consider anyone else.

[kingbuff]

ITA -- if there was truly anything damning against someone other than JY, I have no doubt the JY and the Youngs would be all over LE like flies on crap asking them to get to the bottom of it. If Jason had any suspicion of anyone, he too could have voiced this to LE. Has he ever? To our knowledge, NO.

Since you compared the police to crap, maybe they have not told you their suspicions. Your knowledge may be incomplete.

[Nellikat]

Or....maybe the police have been so focused on Jason from the beginning that they will not consider anyone else.

Or...maybe the police have been focused on the person the evidence leads to.

[Cardinal]

Or....maybe the police have been so focused on Jason from the beginning that they will not consider anyone else.

Interesting that you would appear and respond to that.

[Lindsey]

I vaguely remember hearing something about a roommate, but don't know if it's true. If it is, that's likely her alibi.

< snip>

JMO

Yes, she has/had a roommate and I think it's highly likely she is her alibi. My next question would be if the roommate has been checked out. You know the saying about a good friend will help you move but a best friend will help you move a body. Or something like that. Not saying that applies here but I hope everybody has been thoroughly checked out, with an open mind.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Yes, she has/had a roommate and I think it's highly likely she is her alibi. My next question would be if the roommate has been checked out. You know the saying about a good friend will help you move but a best friend will help you move a body. Or something like that. Not saying that applies here but I hope everybody has been thoroughly checked out, with an open mind.

JMO

As do I, Lindsey. And I have no doubt that LE did exactly that.

[Nellikat]

I think you are right. So far that have proved he had an affair . Guess we will just have to wait and see if they can prove he was in Raleigh at the time of death. They need to prove where he purchased the extra gas as the fill up on the 3rd. was the amount he would need for the miles he had driven. So where did he get the extra gas? They need to prove he ever owned a pair of size 10 franklin shoes. They need to prove the kid slept all day on a dropper of cough syrup. Boy do they ever have a job.

Yes, they do have a job. For Michelle, you and all of us I hope they are successful at their job. We all deserve justice if we are beaten to death in our own bedroom.

JMO

[Barbara2]

I think you are right. So far that have proved he had an affair . Guess we will just have to wait and see if they can prove he was in Raleigh at the time of death. They need to prove where he purchased the extra gas as the fill up on the 3rd. was the amount he would need for the miles he had driven. So where did he get the extra gas? They need to prove he ever owned a pair of size 10 franklin shoes. They need to prove the kid slept all day on a dropper of cough syrup. Boy do they ever have a job.

Maybe he siphoned the gas from other cars. Maybe he paid cash at the pump. Maybe he had purchased the gas and had it stashed somewhere in cans on his route back to the hotel. There are quite a few possibilities, IMO.

[Barbara2]

Why do you think LE would check out a room mate when they haven't checked out MF? How many times have we seen it here that no warrants have ever been served on MF. So why would they care about her room mate.

We have seen numerous posts here indicating that they did "check out" MF and it didn't lead to anything, so they went back to "checking out" Jason, IMO. That seems to be where all roads lead back to.

[Cardinal]

You may have seen posts here she was checked out but have you seen any warrants? Have they searched her home or her mothers home for the missing items? I think the answer is no we would have seen the warrants if they had. Have they checked her phone and computer ? I think the answer is no or we would have seen the warrants. So the only place she has been checked out is here on this board.

Does Jason's family think Meredith was involved in Michelle's murder? If so, they should say so. Now.

[Nellikat]

You may have seen posts here she was checked out but have you seen any warrants? Have they searched her home or her mothers home for the missing items? I think the answer is no we would have seen the warrants if they had. Have they checked her phone and computer ? I think the answer is no or we would have seen the warrants. So the only place she has been checked out is here on this board.

Per your words, the only place she has been checked out is here on this board. Do you really have so little faith in LE? Really?

[Lindsey]

It's really sad when a crime reporter has to research cases that she used to know by heart, simply because there are so many more murders in Wake Co. she can't keep them straight.

New Year's Wish
By Amanda Lamb

Posted: Jan. 3, 2009


http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/4236995/

[Nellikat]

It's really sad when a crime reporter has to research cases that she used to know by heart, simply because there are so many more murders in Wake Co. she can't keep them straight.

New Year's Wish
By Amanda Lamb

Posted: Jan. 3, 2009


http://www.wral.com/news/local/blogpost/4236995/

"Hopefully, it won't be someone you love". I agree with her.

[Leanne Weich]

You may have seen posts here she was checked out but have you seen any warrants? Have they searched her home or her mothers home for the missing items? I think the answer is no we would have seen the warrants if they had. Have they checked her phone and computer ? I think the answer is no or we would have seen the warrants. So the only place she has been checked out is here on this board.

Obviously the evidence at the crime scene and Meredith's interview/s with LE gave them no probable cause to issue SWs. I wouldn't be surprised if Meredith pulled up her phone records for LE online and probably let them look at her phone at the initial interview. They don't need a SW for that. If you really believe LE didn't check Meredith out initially, I think you are not only confused but very naive. It is SOP to investigate the person who finds the body of a murder victim and, for those who think Meredith is getting away with anything because of her friendship with Det. Spivey, I haven't seen anything which indicates she knew him prior to Michelle's death so she would have been investigated in the usual manner. In fact, even if she had known him prior thereto, when the new people took a look at the case, if this had not been done, you better believe it has been done by now.

[Lindsey]

"Hopefully, it won't be someone you love". I agree with her.

Yes, I agree too. And even tho she was writing about the Raleigh area, it seems the crime rate, especially murder, is up all over the country. Way too sad.

[Lindsey]

Obviously the evidence at the crime scene and Meredith's interview/s with LE gave them no probable cause to issue SWs. I wouldn't be surprised if Meredith pulled up her phone records for LE online and probably let them look at her phone at the initial interview. They don't need a SW for that. If you really believe LE didn't check Meredith out initially, I think you are not only confused but very naive. It is SOP to investigate the person who finds the body of a murder victim and, for those who think Meredith is getting away with anything because of her friendship with Det. Spivey, I haven't seen anything which indicates she knew him prior to Michelle's death so she would have been investigated in the usual manner. In fact, even if she had known him prior thereto, when the new people took a look at the case, if this had not been done, you better believe it has been done by now.


Has Det Spivey been on the case from day one or was he among the group of 'fresh eyes' that came on later?

[bookie]

I never understand why some think LE just wants an arrest, that they don't care if they get the actual perp. Why would they want a killer running loose, possibly to kill again ? That's another thing, I really don't think anyone here wants that either. We are all here, we've invested our time and lives in this for 2+ years, we want the killer, not JY cuz he is a creep, the REAL KILLER. whoever that is !!



After reading cases where DNA showed the person in prison wasn't the guilty party but police and DA's refused new testing or stated that the person in prison was guilty regardless has left quite a few people thinking police and DA's don't care if the real person is arrested or not. I just read about 1 man who was held in pretrial detention, after his conviction was overturned, for 5 years because the DA intended to retry him despite DNA showing another man was guilty.

[Leanne Weich]

Has Det Spivey been on the case from day one or was he among the group of 'fresh eyes' that came on later?

I think he has been on the case from the beginning, but I could be wrong. He's been to quite a few memorials IIRC and I seem to recall talk about that from before the fresh eyes. However, this has dragged on for so long that my recall may not be totally accurate.

[Cardinal]

I think he has been on the case from the beginning, but I could be wrong. He's been to quite a few memorials IIRC and I seem to recall talk about that from before the fresh eyes. However, this has dragged on for so long that my recall may not be totally accurate.

I'm not sure, Leanne. The majority of the early SWs were requested by a Det Sternberg, up through the 7/5/07 warrants. The first ones with Spivey's name on them are the 7/25/07 warrants - for Michelle's SUV and Cassidy's DNA. That makes me think he took the lead in the investigation then, had some theories based upon the evidence at that time, and explored them.

[Cardinal]

Why do you think LE would check out a room mate when they haven't checked out MF? How many times have we seen it here that no warrants have ever been served on MF. So why would they care about her room mate.

It usually isn't necessary to request SWs when someone cooperates with the investigation.

[Leanne Weich]

I'm not sure, Leanne. The majority of the early SWs were requested by a Det Sternberg, up through the 7/5/07 warrants. The first ones with Spivey's name on them are the 7/25/07 warrants - for Michelle's SUV and Cassidy's DNA. That makes me think he took the lead in the investigation then, had some theories based upon the evidence at that time, and explored them.

Hey Card. I think you are right. Just a theory, but maybe Spivey was just a detective on the case and, for some reason, Sternberg left or was reassigned elsewhere and Spivey took over the lead.

[bookie]

My God, that is just beyond comprehension. I don't know how these officials get away with that if the public is aware along with the defendant and their counsel of those kinds of developments in their cases. I know the Innocence Project has done some great things in getting some of these people justice. Pretty scary thought isn't it, it could happen to anyone. But, aren't these cases few and far between, you hear alot about people being exonnerated after dna testing, I didn't realize many were denied that process. Although I have heard of it taking years for them to be freed. But, here we are talking about posters thinking LE is just corrupt and trying to pin this on Jason. DNA testing should be the determining factor and I think it will prevail. I am not naive enough to believe there aren't bad cops out there, but having SW's released and certainly plenty of time for it all to be mulled over by the public sure helps me to believe in the integrity of the investigation. And I certainly don't agree with the thought that Det. Spivey is partial to Meredith Fisher and therefore is letting her get away with any involvement in her sisters death. I really don't think that is the case, too far fetched for me. This waiting on the DA to act in this matter is maddening I must say!




I think Nifong and the police officers who helped him prove that it happens more often than we think. If those Lacrosse players had been poor and had no access to good attorneys we may not have heard about that one either. I've read too many stories lately to put blind faith in the police.

[JD1974]

Do you really think the lead investigator in Michelle's case would value his mindset more than justice for her? Do you not think that, after seeing that crime scene and talking to Michelle's family and friends and understanding what an unfathomable loss had occurred, he wouldn't do anything necessary to achieve justice for her? Regardless of what that meant?

If you do, then obviously nothing will convince you otherwise. That's fine. But I don't believe that for a minute.

No offense but there are other cases than Michelle's that are going on in the county. There are a lot of officers who value their mindset more than justice for the victim, because in their mindset what they believe IS justice for the victim. I will get jumped on for this but every murder is in unfathomable loss. These detectives aren't sitting around 24/7 just investigating Michelle's murder, they have other murders just as gruesome and just as devastating to the other victims families.

For you to believe that no detective would go against their feelings if some other viable subject came up would be to deny anyone is ever wrongfully convicted based on what an officer believed and made the evidence fit to his mindset. Did this happen here, I don't know. But to deny that it ever happens is not reality. I am not saying officers do this purposely, although some have, but some just get a thought in their head as to who has committed this crime and nothing will change their mind.


This is just one story, but it happens all the time...


On the same day he pardoned Lesly Jean, a former Marine who had served nine years for a rape he did not commit, North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley asked law-enforcement officials to reopen the case in hopes of finding the real rapist.

But, the Tribune review found, the search for the real culprit also has been thwarted by bureaucratic infighting that bars from the database test results from one of the nation's premier DNA scientists.

Further, law-enforcement authorities have refused to submit DNA profiles because they continue to believe that freed defendants are guilty.


http://www.truthinjustice.org/unsolved-crimes.htm



As I said, sadly this happens all over the country. LE are human just like the rest of us, we are set on a specific person being the culprit...even if proven wrong some of us still won't admit it.

[JD1974]

My God, that is just beyond comprehension. I don't know how these officials get away with that if the public is aware along with the defendant and their counsel of those kinds of developments in their cases. I know the Innocence Project has done some great things in getting some of these people justice. Pretty scary thought isn't it, it could happen to anyone. But, aren't these cases few and far between, you hear alot about people being exonnerated after dna testing, I didn't realize many were denied that process. Although I have heard of it taking years for them to be freed. But, here we are talking about posters thinking LE is just corrupt and trying to pin this on Jason. DNA testing should be the determining factor and I think it will prevail. I am not naive enough to believe there aren't bad cops out there, but having SW's released and certainly plenty of time for it all to be mulled over by the public sure helps me to believe in the integrity of the investigation. And I certainly don't agree with the thought that Det. Spivey is partial to Meredith Fisher and therefore is letting her get away with any involvement in her sisters death. I really don't think that is the case, too far fetched for me. This waiting on the DA to act in this matter is maddening I must say!


To me it doesn't have to be a bad cop or a corrupt cop, just one who believes he has his man/woman. Sometimes nothing will sway them from that thought. Detectives get on the stand every day in this country and they give their opinion according to the evidence they have, but that's just it unless they tampered with evidence they are just giving their opinion. Have you ever heard of any LE losing his job, unless it is from blatant corruption, based on any of the exonerations from the Innocence Project? I haven't. Yet these officers were wrong, they got on the stand, gave their opinion and like all humans made a mistake. It has nothing to do with risking their career it has to do with what they believe at the time and sometimes still not believing they were wrong AFTER their suspect has been exonerated.

[JD1974]

Hi Paula ! Back in the beginning of this case I read an article (and posted) about lawyers who advise their clients to remain silent in a murder investigation. Jim Hardin, Freda Black and IIRC David Rudolph were all quoted as believing that lawyers who advise their client against speaking with LE or testifying do so because they believe the client will incriminate their self (implying they believe said client is guilty) That article really impressed upon me that Jason Young is more than likely the perp and his lawyer knows it! If he were innocent, I agree it would be much more important to clear his name in the murder and certainly to retain custody of his daughter. Where would you draw the line, I certainly would NEVER let this devastating crime put me in the guilty chair in anyone's mind or in any courtroom if I hadn't done it. Jason Young IMO has as much as admitted his guilt by his silence and non-action in both the investigation and the courtroom proceedings in the WDS action.


Jim Hardin and Freda Black are/were both DA's.. I wonder what their answer would be if they switched sides and became def. atty's, would they still hold that attitude...I highly doubt it.

[lonetraveler]

Likewise, if Jason truly had a hand in this carnage, would his vehicle not have had some sort of blood evidence in it as well. Wouldn't the same conclusion apply to all parties under suspicion?

---
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/529376.html

See article stating that blood evidence had been found in Husband's SUV.

[lonetraveler]

I've been following this case and reading this board on and off since the beginning. I will say that I'm astonished that some posters think that Meredith committed this murder. To those of you who do think this, please reply as to the motive. Help me understand where you are coming from. I'm also totally astonished that Jason Young has not been charged with her murder. It is mind boggeling.

[Cardinal]

No offense but there are other cases than Michelle's that are going on in the county. There are a lot of officers who value their mindset more than justice for the victim, because in their mindset what they believe IS justice for the victim. I will get jumped on for this but every murder is in unfathomable loss. These detectives aren't sitting around 24/7 just investigating Michelle's murder, they have other murders just as gruesome and just as devastating to the other victims families.

For you to believe that no detective would go against their feelings if some other viable subject came up would be to deny anyone is ever wrongfully convicted based on what an officer believed and made the evidence fit to his mindset. Did this happen here, I don't know. But to deny that it ever happens is not reality. I am not saying officers do this purposely, although some have, but some just get a thought in their head as to who has committed this crime and nothing will change their mind.

~snipped~

No offense but you took my post out of context. I wasn't referring to a viable suspect.

[Cardinal]

I've been following this case and reading this board on and off since the beginning. I will say that I'm astonished that some posters think that Meredith committed this murder. To those of you who do think this, please reply as to the motive. Help me understand where you are coming from. I'm also totally astonished that Jason Young has not been charged with her murder. It is mind boggeling.

I've asked several times about Meredith's possible motives. Maybe you'll get an answer.

[JD1974]

No offense but you took my post out of context. I wasn't referring to a viable suspect.


I am not just talking about a viable suspect either, I am talking about how LE are human like us, they decide who they think committed a crime and even if faced with evidence that doesn't add up or make sense they still think they have the right person. It happens all the time. Sometimes nothing will change their mind, including their perp being completely exonerated, they still believe they got it right no matter what happens.

[JD1974]

I've asked several times about Meredith's possible motives. Maybe you'll get an answer.


I don't think I have ever stated Meredith did anything except with regards to that money business. I think there are some strange things regarding her, but that is my opinion only. It doesn't mean she did anything. I am still just taking in all the evidence...

The stuff about Jason pulling that stunt at a party while drunk is weird to me too, but I think if someone had a major problem with it the law would of been called. If Michelle had a huge problem with it she probably would of filed for divorce. Come to think of it a lot of stuff that has come out regarding just about everyone involved in this case is all a bit weird to me.

[bookie]

I've asked several times about Meredith's possible motives. Maybe you'll get an answer.




I've never included Meredith as a suspect but there are many motives for 1 sister to kill another, just as many as a husband has for murdering a spouse. Being jealous over how their lives turned out, being jealous of a parent's attention to one over the other, hatred, mental illness.

[Cardinal]

I am not just talking about a viable suspect either, I am talking about how LE are human like us, they decide who they think committed a crime and even if faced with evidence that doesn't add up or make sense they still think they have the right person. It happens all the time. Sometimes nothing will change their mind, including their perp being completely exonerated, they still believe they got it right no matter what happens.

And then there are people who, even if faced with evidence that doesn't add up or make sense, still think they have the right person - even when the evidence does add up and make sense against someone else.

[Cardinal]

I don't think I have ever stated Meredith did anything except with regards to that money business. I think there are some strange things regarding her, but that is my opinion only. It doesn't mean she did anything. I am still just taking in all the evidence...

The stuff about Jason pulling that stunt at a party while drunk is weird to me too, but I think if someone had a major problem with it the law would of been called. If Michelle had a huge problem with it she probably would of filed for divorce. Come to think of it a lot of stuff that has come out regarding just about everyone involved in this case is all a bit weird to me.

I think Michelle was planning to file for divorce.

And I think anyone's life would seem a bit weird in some regards if it were put under a microscope. :)

[Cardinal]

I've never included Meredith as a suspect but there are many motives for 1 sister to kill another, just as many as a husband has for murdering a spouse. Being jealous over how their lives turned out, being jealous of a parent's attention to one over the other, hatred, mental illness.

Sure, there are a generic list of motives that might fit any murder. But I keep asking for a motive that is applicable to this case, and I haven't heard one.

[JD1974]

And then there are people who, even if faced with evidence that doesn't add up or make sense, still think they have the right person - even when the evidence does add up and make sense against someone else.


Very true. The thing is some people aren't LE. If I got up on the stand and said well I have read the case file and think such and such did it they would laugh me out of court, well they wouldn't even allow me to go up onto the stand so that is kind of a moot point. When a police officer does it though people listen to them. If you step back for a second and not take my statements to mean only this case you will see what I am talking about, but just like I tried to explain you can't do that because you are too invested in who you think did this. I put links up that shows this stuff happens and the only thing you can say is something about a viable suspect. What about the men who were cleared by DNA and yet LE still REFUSED to believe they weren't guilty so didn't even bother running the DNA through the databanks? That doesn't bother you in the least?

[Cardinal]

Very true. The thing is some people aren't LE. If I got up on the stand and said well I have read the case file and think such and such did it they would laugh me out of court, well they wouldn't even allow me to go up onto the stand so that is kind of a moot point. When a police officer does it though people listen to them. If you step back for a second and not take my statements to mean only this case you will see what I am talking about, but just like I tried to explain you can't do that because you are too invested in who you think did this. I put links up that shows this stuff happens and the only thing you can say is something about a viable suspect. What about the men who were cleared by DNA and yet LE still REFUSED to believe they weren't guilty so didn't even bother running the DNA through the databanks? That doesn't bother you in the least?

What bothers me is being told what I think and what I believe. I understood very well that you were talking about more than this case. I simply objected to your taking my post out of context in order to do it.

As for the point of your post, I would never want anyone wrongfully convicted, under any circumstances.

[kingbuff]

---
http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/529376.html

See article stating that blood evidence had been found in Husband's SUV.

Oh, you're reading one of Marlon's inaccurate stories. Yep, the first paragraph says that, but the second paragraph "appears" to be more accurate. Somebody said Marlon was fired for being inaccurate on this and other stories. Believe the first paragraph if you'd like.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I've been following this case and reading this board on and off since the beginning. I will say that I'm astonished that some posters think that Meredith committed this murder. To those of you who do think this, please reply as to the motive. Help me understand where you are coming from. I'm also totally astonished that Jason Young has not been charged with her murder. It is mind boggeling.

I wonder if N.C. DA's are a little a-skird after the Nifong problem in Durham. I think the Wake Co. Da is dotting his "I's" and crossing his "T's" to avoid anything resembling what happened in Durham.

It seems like this case may be the anti-Nifong case. In Durham they jumped and in Raleigh they are tiptoeing. But remember the fable, slow and steady wins the race.

[Cardinal]

I wonder if N.C. DA's are a little a-skird after the Nifong problem in Durham. I think the Wake Co. Da is dotting his "I's" and crossing his "T's" to avoid anything resembling what happened in Durham.

It seems like this case may be the anti-Nifong case. In Durham they jumped and in Raleigh they are tiptoeing. But remember the fable, slow and steady wins the race.

The anti-Nifong case? I think you've just coined a phrase. :biggrin:

One thing's for sure. An indictment in this case will never be tagged a "tragic rush to accuse"!

[bookie]

Sure, there are a generic list of motives that might fit any murder. But I keep asking for a motive that is applicable to this case, and I haven't heard one.




You don't know that any of the ones I listed are or aren't applicable.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

They sure didn't drag their feet on BC. I read this on another forum post 38. I wonder if that could be the machine that was taken into the home when MY was first murdered? Does it take a big machine to do this test?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75395&page=2

BC gave a deposition as part of a custody suit. He tried to keep his children and it cost him his freedom.

I wonder if Jason will do the same? (Another poster on another site brought this up.) Don't you think a judge will want to hear from Jason in the custody suit? After all, he is the one that the suit is being brought against. Having others testify to his character, or lack of, is all well and good, but I would think that the judge would like to hear from the man himself.

This should be interesting. Does anyone know what date he has to respond by? Could we just be waiting for another default?

[Cardinal]

They sure didn't drag their feet on BC. I read this on another forum post 38. I wonder if that could be the machine that was taken into the home when MY was first murdered? Does it take a big machine to do this test?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75395&page=2

Confused, I checked out your link, but I didn't see anything about a machine. What machine are you talking about?

[Cardinal]

You don't know that any of the ones I listed are or aren't applicable.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm familiar with most of the possible motives for any murder. What I keep asking of the MDIs, and what I'm not getting, are what they believe to be valid motives for Meredith to have killed Michelle, based upon what is known about this case.

[Cardinal]

BC gave a deposition as part of a custody suit. He tried to keep his children and it cost him his freedom.

I wonder if Jason will do the same? (Another poster on another site brought this up.) Don't you think a judge will want to hear from Jason in the custody suit? After all, he is the one that the suit is being brought against. Having others testify to his character, or lack of, is all well and good, but I would think that the judge would like to hear from the man himself.

This should be interesting. Does anyone know what date he has to respond by? Could we just be waiting for another default?

The suit was filed on 12/17, and I believe he has 30 days to respond. Would that be 1/16?

Do you really think he might fail to respond?

[lonetraveler]

I've never included Meredith as a suspect but there are many motives for 1 sister to kill another, just as many as a husband has for murdering a spouse. Being jealous over how their lives turned out, being jealous of a parent's attention to one over the other, hatred, mental illness.

----
IMO, you are so wrong on so many levels. Try to google how many sisters kill their sisters........................against how many spouses or boyfriends kill their wives or girlfriends. This analogy is ludicrous IMO. You will need to do better than that to prove your point. I will venture that it is extremely rare for a woman to kill her sister. At least use a link for statistics.......I couldn't find one. Help me please find one........

[lonetraveler]

I wonder if N.C. DA's are a little a-skird after the Nifong problem in Durham. I think the Wake Co. Da is dotting his "I's" and crossing his "T's" to avoid anything resembling what happened in Durham.

It seems like this case may be the anti-Nifong case. In Durham they jumped and in Raleigh they are tiptoeing. But remember the fable, slow and steady wins the race.


----
I'm wondering who is going to be arrested first, Drew Peterson or Jason Yound? Anyone???

[lonetraveler]

OMG, I found one! A sister who killed her sister.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/life-for-woman-who-killed-sister-then-impersonated-her-in-public-690521.html

I'll dig very deep and try to help you with another one.

[lonetraveler]

Found another one. In Japan:

http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/woman-arrested-for-beating-sister-to-death-with-rock-in-yokohama

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The suit was filed on 12/17, and I believe he has 30 days to respond. Would that be 1/16?

Do you really think he might fail to respond?

Jason loves Jason more than he loves anyone else. He'll throw anyone overboard to keep his own ship afloat.

It's just MOO but we will see.

IMO a suit like this will cost a wad of cash as well. (lawyers, PI's, child psychology experts, etc.) With a possible criminal case waiting in the wings he will need to decide where to spend his money.

I guess these are the things that no one thinks about when they decide to kill someone.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Found another one. In Japan:

http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/woman-arrested-for-beating-sister-to-death-with-rock-in-yokohama

You found two cases world wide?

Careful now, some will view this as a crime wave and proof positive that MF was involved.

:w00t:

[lonetraveler]

Oh, you're reading one of Marlon's inaccurate stories. Yep, the first paragraph says that, but the second paragraph "appears" to be more accurate. Somebody said Marlon was fired for being inaccurate on this and other stories. Believe the first paragraph if you'd like.

The vehicle was seized as evidence the day after Michelle Young's body was found. According to a search warrant returned Friday to the Wake County Clerk of Court's Office, Maj. R.L. Johnson of the sheriff's office saw a white 2004 Ford Explorer on Nov. 4 at 1532 Lake Glen Drive in Fuquay-Varina. Johnson testified to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door.



---
Bit confused here. Second paragraph also states that blood was found. What am I missing here. Set me straight. The link contains both paragraphs. I did not choose a certain paragraph. I included the whole article. Are you saying that the entire article is incorrect? If it was proven incorrect, then I stand corrected. Where was it denounced as incorrect?

Second paragraph: Paraphrased, not sure if I can put whole quote:

" to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door."

[lonetraveler]

You found two cases world wide?

Careful now, some will view this as a crime wave and proof positive that MF was involved.

:w00t:

--
That's what I'm trying to point out. Very, very rare that a sister would kill her sister. I'm not buying the scenario that Meredith killed her sister. That dog doesn't bark.

[lonetraveler]

The vehicle was seized as evidence the day after Michelle Young's body was found. According to a search warrant returned Friday to the Wake County Clerk of Court's Office, Maj. R.L. Johnson of the sheriff's office saw a white 2004 Ford Explorer on Nov. 4 at 1532 Lake Glen Drive in Fuquay-Varina. Johnson testified to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door.



---
Bit confused here. Second paragraph also states that blood was found. What am I missing here. Set me straight. The link contains both paragraphs. I did not choose a certain paragraph. I included the whole article. Are you saying that the entire article is incorrect? If it was proven incorrect, then I stand corrected. Where was it denounced as incorrect?

Second paragraph: Paraphrased, not sure if I can put whole quote:

" to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door."


---
Replied to my own quote just to confess that I really messed up sending it. Got interrupted in the middle of the post and oops!

[kingbuff]

The vehicle was seized as evidence the day after Michelle Young's body was found. According to a search warrant returned Friday to the Wake County Clerk of Court's Office, Maj. R.L. Johnson of the sheriff's office saw a white 2004 Ford Explorer on Nov. 4 at 1532 Lake Glen Drive in Fuquay-Varina. Johnson testified to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door.



---
Bit confused here. Second paragraph also states that blood was found. What am I missing here. Set me straight. The link contains both paragraphs. I did not choose a certain paragraph. I included the whole article. Are you saying that the entire article is incorrect? If it was proven incorrect, then I stand corrected. Where was it denounced as incorrect?

Second paragraph: Paraphrased, not sure if I can put whole quote:

" to a magistrate that there appeared to be a blood droplet on the seat behind the driver's seat and a dark spot consistent with a blood droplet on the exterior of the driver's side door."

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.

[lonetraveler]

Maybe he siphoned the gas from other cars. Maybe he paid cash at the pump. Maybe he had purchased the gas and had it stashed somewhere in cans on his route back to the hotel. There are quite a few possibilities, IMO.


---
I vote for simply paying cash for the gas to avoid a credit card trail. Maybe I'm keeping it too simple, but that's the way I see it.

[lonetraveler]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.


---
I posted the second paragraph. I still have not seen where this was disproven. I haven't checked on this case lately. If I have missed it in some link just point the way. Dismissing the entire first paragraph, the second paragraph also states information about the appearance of blood.....:confused:

I'm not trying to read into something out of thin air. You state that the first paragraph is bogus. Fine, what about the rest fo the article, the second paragraph for instance?

[lonetraveler]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.


--
The first paragraph is fiction only if the substance was tested negative for blood. Did it?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.

Link Please.

Thanks..:cool:

[Cardinal]

Jason loves Jason more than he loves anyone else. He'll throw anyone overboard to keep his own ship afloat.

It's just MOO but we will see.

IMO a suit like this will cost a wad of cash as well. (lawyers, PI's, child psychology experts, etc.) With a possible criminal case waiting in the wings he will need to decide where to spend his money.

I guess these are the things that no one thinks about when they decide to kill someone.

Believe it or not, I hope you're wrong. Not that I necessarily think that Cassidy should remain with Jason and the Youngs. But I would truly hate the thought that Cassidy would grow up and understand at some point that her father didn't fight to keep her.

But I agree with you about the cost. It will be expensive.

[Cardinal]

--
The first paragraph is fiction only if the substance was tested negative for blood. Did it?

I don't believe it has ever been made public whether or not the substance tested positive or negative for blood.

[Cardinal]

---
I vote for simply paying cash for the gas to avoid a credit card trail. Maybe I'm keeping it too simple, but that's the way I see it.

Keeping it simple. What a welcomed approach.

[lonetraveler]

Keeping it simple. What a welcomed approach.

--
Why, thank you. Sometimes things are just analyzed too death when the answer is staring you in the face.

[Cardinal]

--
Why, thank you. Sometimes things are just analyzed too death when the answer is staring you in the face.

You're absolutely right. And I freely admit I have a tendency to over-analyze things at times. But sometimes the answer is just staring you in the face.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.

Don't get your hopes up lonetraveler. This is just more of the same ole spin. Some poster just throw out lies and see if they will stick.

[Leanne Weich]

They sure didn't drag their feet on BC. I read this on another forum post 38. I wonder if that could be the machine that was taken into the home when MY was first murdered? Does it take a big machine to do this test?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75395&page=2

I don't see anything about a machine in that post. I would think touch DNA would be recovered in much the same way as any other DNA - a swab or scraping. If it is true that touch DNA was found on NC's neck, I'd hazard a guess that that was recovered at autopsy as opposed to at the crime scene so, if a machine is involved, how would a random poster know about said machine?

[kingbuff]

--
The first paragraph is fiction only if the substance was tested negative for blood. Did it?

The police needed a search warrant so they could search the car. For that they needed probable cause. They invented the cause. They lied to the Youngs about having a SW for the car and contents. They didn't. The luggage, medicine, etc. were unlawfully seized.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The police needed a search warrant so they could search the car. For that they needed probable cause. They invented the cause. They lied to the Youngs about having a SW for the car and contents. They didn't. The luggage, medicine, etc. were unlawfully seized.

????

Aren't all the quotes about the blood on Jason's SUV from the SW for Jason's SUV?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The police needed a search warrant so they could search the car. For that they needed probable cause. They invented the cause. They lied to the Youngs about having a SW for the car and contents. They didn't. The luggage, medicine, etc. were unlawfully seized.

They needed a search warrant
Needed Probable cause
Invented the cause
lied about having a search warrant
Well then why did they need the PC if they were just going to lie to the Youngs anyway?

This is post make no sense.IMO

[annalyzer]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.

No it isn't but good words to use to get a search warrant.

[kingbuff]

Don't get your hopes up lonetraveler. This is just more of the same ole spin. Some poster just throw out lies and see if they will stick.

I wouldn't accuse Marlon of lying. He wrote fiction.

"Wake County sheriff's investigators found blood in a sport utility vehicle...."

"Bloody footprints made by Cassidy, the Youngs' 2-year-old daughter, were scattered throughout the home."

[Cardinal]

????

Aren't all the quotes about the blood on Jason's SUV from the SW for Jason's SUV?

Yes, they are. The vehicle was "...detained pursuant to a death investigation...." until a SW was issued.

http://abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/pdf/youngsearchwarrant2.pdf

[Cardinal]

If it turns out her father killed her mother she won't be surprised if he didn't fight to keep her. She might even be relieved !

Maybe, but I really don't think so. It would just be another betrayal.

JMO

[kingbuff]

They needed a search warrant
Needed Probable cause
Invented the cause
lied about having a search warrant
Well then why did they need the PC if they were just going to lie to the Youngs anyway?

This is post make no sense.IMO

So they could get the search warrant? At 9:30, they didn't have one. That's when they lied to the Youngs. That's when they illegally seized the car and everything in it. By 4 a.m., they had the SW.

[lonetraveler]

Don't get your hopes up lonetraveler. This is just more of the same ole spin. Some poster just throw out lies and see if they will stick.

---
Yes, it has dawned on me now that this poster is definitely programmed not to see, hear, smell, taste, touch or think that Jason Young just might be guilty. A horse with blinders on would at least see what is in front of him. I'm one of those naturally suspicious people who think that if a pregnant spouse is brutally murdered (as in a passion murder) it usually involves the spouse or boyfriend. When that spouse is also having an affair, well....I did say I was of a suspicious nature. I would expect LE to do every type of investigation there is to exonerate the spouse. He should have voluntarily gave DNA, his clothes, his car or anything to help in the investigation. When a spouse immediately lawyers up, refuses to cooperate in his wife's brutal murder....then of course, the suspicion starts to settle over the whole case...Make you immediately wonder what he is hiding.......

[Cardinal]

No it isn't but good words to use to get a search warrant.

Hi, Anna. :seeya:

Yes, they are. At that point, I don't think they could be choosy.

[lonetraveler]

So they could get the search warrant? At 9:30, they didn't have one. That's when they lied to the Youngs. That's when they illegally seized the car and everything in it. By 4 a.m., they had the SW.

--
As you so frantically point out Jason Young's innocence in the murder of his bride, then why didn't the young man offer up any evidence LE needed to look at so he could be eliminated as a possible suspect. His actions spoke louder than words. I'm not saying he is guilty, just observing and absorbing....

[achristie]

----
IMO, you are so wrong on so many levels. Try to google how many sisters kill their sisters........................against how many spouses or boyfriends kill their wives or girlfriends. This analogy is ludicrous IMO. You will need to do better than that to prove your point. I will venture that it is extremely rare for a woman to kill her sister. At least use a link for statistics.......I couldn't find one. Help me please find one........

"What Ever Happened to Baby Jane"? :wink:
Ooops. She never pulled it off in the end, right?
Here's hoping the next few weeks bring us closer to resolution in this incredibly sad case.

MOO Aggie

[Kat4Eagles]

May 2009 bring Justice for Michelle and her family and friends.


Wow, still nothing, huh?

2006
2007
2008
2009

Wow.

Kat

[Cardinal]

"What Ever Happened to Baby Jane"? :wink:
Ooops. She never pulled it off in the end, right?
Here's hoping the next few weeks bring us closer to resolution in this incredibly sad case.

MOO Aggie

I really think we will be, Aggie. I think the DA is waiting to see if Jason is deposed in the custody case before going with what he has.

[kingbuff]

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm familiar with most of the possible motives for any murder. What I keep asking of the MDIs, and what I'm not getting, are what they believe to be valid motives for Meredith to have killed Michelle, based upon what is known about this case.

Back up a minute. You assume too much. You assume someone entered the house with a motive to kill Michelle. There was no motive.

[Cardinal]

Wow, still nothing, huh?

2006
2007
2008
2009

Wow.

Kat

Hello, Kat. I've been wondering where you were. :)

After all this time, as you noted, I hoped you would be around when this case finally gels. Because I really think it's about to.

NO PROMISES!!! No dates, LOL. Just a feeling.

[lonetraveler]

Sorry for your confusion. 'Appeared to be blood' and 'consistent with blood' is not the same as blood. The first paragraph is fiction.


--
Excuse me but the words have to be stated that way merely for the reason that forsenics have not been conducted at that time to confirm that the substance is actually blood. I'm not stupid, but I'm sure that LE had a very legitimate reason to have the substance tested since they were conducting a murder investigation. Isn't that what they are paid and expected to do??

[Cardinal]

Back up a minute. You assume too much. You assume someone entered the house with a motive to kill Michelle. There was no motive.

Really. And you know that how?

[Cardinal]

--
Excuse me but the words have to be stated that way merely for the reason that forsenics have not been conducted at that time to confirm that the substance is actually blood. I'm not stupid, but I'm sure that LE had a very legitimate reason to have the substance tested since they were conducting a murder investigation. Isn't that what they are paid and expected to do??

Ah, there you are with the simple approach again. Thank you.

[kingbuff]

--
Excuse me but the words have to be stated that way merely for the reason that forsenics have not been conducted at that time to confirm that the substance is actually blood. I'm not stupid, but I'm sure that LE had a very legitimate reason to have the substance tested since they were conducting a murder investigation. Isn't that what they are paid and expected to do??

Newspaper writers are expected to write facts, not fiction.

[Kat4Eagles]

What bothers me is this, when Meredith got the the house she was not in a panic, she had no reason to be..as far as she knew nothing was wrong. So why does she not remember doing it? Why does she say she put her keys on the counter, still no reason to panic at this point...she may have thought some things looked odd but she was thinking normally at this point. Normally you put keys on the counter as you are entering the house, when Meredith entered the house she had no idea what had happened yet, so why did she not remember putting Michelle's keys on the counter and her keys on the car? It had to be her that did it because it was her normal spot to put her keys, they just happened to be Michelles.

I can understand after finding Michelle and panicking that she would maybe confuse the keys, but by the time she found Michelle she had already mixed up the keys, there was no panic at that time...therefore she should of been able to recall what she had done with the keys.


Exactly, and the keys are important.....or they would not have even been mentioned.

Search warrants are issued to obtain evidence, not explain things away..not at that stage of the game.

Also, we were told MF entered an unlocked door from the outside to the garage, and if she threw her keys on the Lexus, then I am guessing she did not need them to unlock the door to the home either.

But, how would she know until she tried the door?
So,then what?
The door is open , so she turns around and throws the keys on the Lexus, .........doesn't add up , does it?

:confused:


Kat

[Cardinal]

Newspaper writers are expected to write facts, not fiction.

IIRC, newspaper writers reported the FACT that Jason was having an affair with MM. Also if IIRC, it was rumored that the writer was pressured to somewhat retract that FACT. Are you saying that was wrong?

[Cardinal]

Exactly, and the keys are important.....or they would not have even been mentioned.

Search warrants are issued to obtain evidence, not explain things away..not at that stage of the game.

Also, we were told MF entered an unlocked door from the outside to the garage, and if she threw her keys on the Lexus, then I am guessing she did not need them to unlock the door to the home either.

But, how would she know until she tried the door?
So,then what?
The door is open , so she turns around and throws the keys on the Lexus, .........doesn't add up , does it?

:confused:


Kat

Unless she laid her keys on the car as she was leaving. Do we know when she put them there?

[Cardinal]

Because you can't find one? Just a simple approach.

I was responding to your statement of fact that there was no motive. I'll ask again - how do you know that?

ETA: Maybe you misspoke?

[Cardinal]

I agree Cardinal. So much has happened the past few months that I believe your feeling is correct. Also, I didn't expect anything to happen over the holidays. Just a gut feeling here too.

Hi, Ayanna. So I'm not the only one that senses some real momentum toward a resolution in this case?

[kingbuff]

IIRC, newspaper writers reported the FACT that Jason was having an affair with MM. Also if IIRC, it was rumored that the writer was pressured to somewhat retract that FACT. Are you saying that was wrong?

At the time Marlon wrote it, it was not proven. He invented it. Fiction.

[Kat4Eagles]

Hello, Kat. I've been wondering where you were. :)

After all this time, as you noted, I hoped you would be around when this case finally gels. Because I really think it's about to.

NO PROMISES!!! No dates, LOL. Just a feeling.


Hi Card, I am catching up......hope you are doing good..!!

Card, this case is a mess, if the DA needs to go about getting a backwards indictment, it means clearly, there is not evidence to bring the case in on its own merits.

And, we know this how? .......2 years, 2 months, 2 days later........

This is not good!! :no:

I trust you feel there is an end in sight....
Psssss......got a SB prediction?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Unless she laid her keys on the car as she was leaving. Do we know when she put them there?


Do you think when she was leaving the home she went back through the garage?


Kat

[JHP]

Back up a minute. You assume too much. You assume someone entered the house with a motive to kill Michelle. There was no motive.

I think "someone" entered the house with a plan to kill Michelle. Unfortunatly they were sucssesful:mad:.

[Cardinal]

At the time Marlon wrote it, it was not proven. He invented it. Fiction.

How do you know what he knew? He was obviously correct.

[kingbuff]

I was responding to your statement of fact that there was no motive. I'll ask again - how do you know that?

ETA: Maybe you misspoke?

Obviously the killers were not prepared to kill Michelle. They were there to talk to her. The murder was not planned. So, no motive.

[Cardinal]

Do you think when she was leaving the home she went back through the garage?


Kat

As I understand it, that's the way Jason, Michelle and Meredith entered and exited the home. So yes, I think she would have left that way.

[Cardinal]

You are not the only one I can assure you. Jason's time is running out. He needs to speak up or lose his daughter. Its all in his hands now.

Yes, it is. And I truly hope he cares enough about his daughter to speak up to keep her.

[JHP]

Hi, Ayanna. So I'm not the only one that senses some real momentum toward a resolution in this case?

Good evening Cardinal, I have a feeling something may be happening too. However I have been wrong before.
I hope for Cassidys sake there is a quick positive resolution in the custody hearing.

[Cardinal]

Obviously the killers were not prepared to kill Michelle. They were there to talk to her. The murder was not planned. So, no motive.

I'm sorry, I don't see any "obviously" in your theory. Perhaps you could elaborate.

[Kat4Eagles]

As I understand it, that's the way Jason, Michelle and Meredith entered and exited the home. So yes, I think she would have left that way.


During a police investigation??

When it is a crime scene?

Hmmm...

I would think she was escorted out carefully, and asked not to touch or disturb anything .

Kat

[Cardinal]

Good evening Cardinal, I have a feeling something may be happening too. However I have been wrong before.
I hope for Cassidys sake there is a quick positive resolution in the custody hearing.

Hi, JHP. I've been wrong before, too. :) But the WDS suit followed by the custody suit makes me think there's a plan here.

As for a quick positive resolution in the custody hearing, I'm not so sure. Unless Jason fails to respond - again - that may go on for a while.

[Nellikat]

Obviously the killers were not prepared to kill Michelle. They were there to talk to her. The murder was not planned. So, no motive.

He was there and he killed her. Obviously. JMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

Wait, we got to back up here.

If MY's car and MF's car was searched at the crime scene or impounded, then LE would have needed all the keys to the cars that day...

This is strange, that at such a later date, in the form of a search warrant, that these keys being switched or misplaced like this. comes out.

For it to come out at all, means something.
For it to have been overlooked and needing an explantation means something.
For it to be inferred to as a "revelation" in a search warrant, means something.

Kat

[Cardinal]

During a police investigation??

When it is a crime scene?

Hmmm...

I would think she was escorted out carefully, and asked not to touch or disturb anything .

Kat

I posted a theory while you were gone, that she was on her way out of the garage, carrying Cassidy, laid the keys down to open the garage door, and was met by arriving WCSO. So yes, she would have been escorted out carefully, and asked not to touch anything. So the keys were forgotten until they were returned to her by LE later.

[annalyzer]

Wait, we got to back up here.

If MY's car and MF's car was searched at the crime scene or impounded, then LE would have needed all the keys to the cars that day...

This is strange, that at such a later date, in the form of a search warrant, that these keys being switched or misplaced like this. comes out.

For it to come out at all, means something.
For it to have been overlooked and needing an explantation means something.
For it to be inferred to as a "revelation" in a search warrant, means something.

Kat

Hi Kat. I doubt Meredith's car was searched or impounded. At least not that day.

[JHP]

Hi, JHP. I've been wrong before, too. :) But the WDS suit followed by the custody suit makes me think there's a plan here.

As for a quick positive resolution in the custody hearing, I'm not so sure. Unless Jason fails to respond - again - that may go on for a while.

Well, it's going to be interesting. I think you're right about it being nice for Cassidy if her Daddy does fight for her. However IMO Jason is the most important thing to Jason. I'm not sure about his mother though.

[Cardinal]

Wait, we got to back up here.

If MY's car and MF's car was searched at the crime scene or impounded, then LE would have needed all the keys to the cars that day...

This is strange, that at such a later date, in the form of a search warrant, that these keys being switched or misplaced like this. comes out.

For it to come out at all, means something.
For it to have been overlooked and needing an explantation means something.
For it to be inferred to as a "revelation" in a search warrant, means something.

Kat


I think it means something, Kat. I think it means that Det Spivey was newly assigned as lead detective on this case, and he was doing exactly what he should have done - reexamining everything. But there has been no mention of the keys since, and there has been no SW targeting Meredith since. So apparently his investigation did not turn up anything of concern regarding the keys.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree Cardinal. So much has happened the past few months that I believe your feeling is correct. Also, I didn't expect anything to happen over the holidays. Just a gut feeling here too.


It would be nice to have this over.

But, then again, someone just told us that MF had taken posession of the Lexus a few days after the WDS had been conceeded.

:no: Not true, it does not work that way.

Only a judgement was made at that time, not lists of items to be turned over.

It would have to be first determined what Jason's real properties are, things that he owns in just his name.

Like the townhome.

This is why we need to stop believing things that are posted here without links.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Hi Kat. I doubt Meredith's car was searched or impounded. At least not that day.


Hi Anna!!, I am pretty sure it would have to be, wouldn't it?
Would they let someone just drive away from the crime scene with a body after a brutal and horrific murder occurred?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Obviously you butted in without reading. We were talking motive.

Thats all I need, KB,
just a motive..

Kat

[Nellikat]

Obviously you butted in without reading. We were talking motive.

No, I've read since Michelle was murdered. IMO, Jason killed Michelle and his motives were in the SW's.

[Kat4Eagles]

I posted a theory while you were gone, that she was on her way out of the garage, carrying Cassidy, laid the keys down to open the garage door, and was met by arriving WCSO. So yes, she would have been escorted out carefully, and asked not to touch anything. So the keys were forgotten until they were returned to her by LE later.

I do have to catch up !!

Kat

[annalyzer]

Hi Anna!!, I am pretty sure it would have to be, wouldn't it?
Would they let someone just drive away from the crime scene with a body after a brutal and horrific murder occurred?

Kat


I bet they did.

[Cardinal]

It would be nice to have this over.

But, then again, someone just told us that MF had taken posession of the Lexus a few days after the WDS had been conceeded.

:no: Not true, it does not work that way.

Only a judgement was made at that time, not lists of items to be turned over.

It would have to be first determined what Jason's real properties are, things that he owns in just his name.

Like the townhome.

This is why we need to stop believing things that are posted here without links.


Kat

Actually, Kat, it isn't about what Jason owns. Michelle's Executrix is entitled to collect whatever Michelle owned.

I don't know about the Lexus being taken, but Linda would have been within her rights to take it. The judgment is for monetary damages, not for Michelle's assets.

But I won't argue about posting things here without links. Just earlier, someone posted that LE lied to the Youngs and seized their vehicle, illegally. There was no link.

[Nellikat]

Thats all I need, KB,
just a motive..

Kat

All you need is a motive for a murder? When you lose someone you love to murder, you might change your mind. All you might need is justice for your loved one. Maybe not.

[Kat4Eagles]

ITA and do agree with (I think it was Lindsey) who said the fresh eyes brought in to look at the case have found something that doesn't add up. I think they may feel that this was a hit and are looking into that or that he had an accomplice who helped in the clean up.


Here is another thing!!

What clean up?

According to MF there was still blood everywhere...

Blood in the bed, but C did not get any on her.

And, bloody footprints all over the house.

Did someone come in and shampoo the carpets ?


Kat

[Cardinal]

I bet they did.

Anna, someone posted a link the other day to an N&O article which mentioned a Honda sedan being in the driveway the night after the murder. Isn't that Meredith's car?

[JHP]

No, I've read since Michelle was murdered. IMO, Jason killed Michelle and his motives were in the SW's.

I'm amazed people who have kept up with this case don't see a motive. I've spotted a couple (at least) JMO.

[Cardinal]

If Meredith murdered Michelle, she is really putting herself at risk by requesting custody of Cassidy along with Linda, don't you think?

The keys are of no importance at all and as you stated, nothing has even pointed toward Meredith.

I had the same thought, Ayanna. If Meredith were at all considered a suspect, requesting custody of Cassidy would blow things sky high. Why would she do that?

[Kat4Eagles]

Because it turned out not to be blood is my guess.



Blood in the car would have sealed the deal.


Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm amazed people who have kept up with this case don't see a motive. I've spotted a couple (at least) JMO.



The 5 basic motives are love, hate, revenge, jealousy and money.

So, since Jason did not collect any money, since I doubt he was jealous of Michelle, and while he was not exactly being the most faithful, I am not sure how love or hate could play into it, so maybe revenge?

Kat

[Cardinal]

Obviously you butted in without reading. We were talking motive.

And you never answered my question. How do you know that there was no motive in Michelle's murder?

[Cardinal]

She wouldn't. And you can bet, if she were involved, she would have tried to talk Linda out of both the WDS and the Custody suits for fear of being exposed.

Given the mountains of things we are looking at with Jason, (tape of him heading near the exit the night of the murder, his affairs, his "lawyering up" right away, his refusal to attend any memorials for Michelle, he lack of response to the WDS)........well, its almost comical to read the posts about Meredith's keys and how "somehow" the placement of those keys makes her suspect:rolleyes:

That's why Lonetraveler's simple approach is so appealing. I'm absolutely still willing to wait it out where Jason is concerned, but the contortions required to make Meredith a suspect are not humanly possible, IMO.

[JHP]

The 5 basic motives are love, hate, revenge, jealousy and money.

So, since Jason did not collect any money, since I doubt he was jealous of Michelle, and while he was not exactly being the most faithful, I am not sure how love or hate could play into it, so maybe revenge?

Kat

I'll pick Love, Hate, Jealousy and money.
I can't stay right now to explain myself but IMO it was all of those. With a freedom added in.

[Kat4Eagles]

I had the same thought, Ayanna. If Meredith were at all considered a suspect, requesting custody of Cassidy would blow things sky high. Why would she do that?


First off, no one is calling her or anyone a murderer..

Just looking at how things do not always add up.

You got the trust fund rumors, you got a 911 call, you got things that don't match how the crime scene was described in the call, you got an autopsy report that shows the body could have been moved, you have a child that who had to be there at some point, with minimum blood, if any, found on her, but on her socks, and then you got switched car keys.

And, you have what is called a complicated case.

And, you have no arrest 26 months later.
Kat

[annalyzer]

Anna, someone posted a link the other day to an N&O article which mentioned a Honda sedan being in the driveway the night after the murder. Isn't that Meredith's car?


I don't know what she drives and never saw the article. Under what context was that mentioned? Was LE at the scene at the time? Could MF driven over for some reason the next day? Why would they search or impound the sister's vehicle if she had just came there? I don't see it. But I could be wrong.

[Cardinal]

The 5 basic motives are love, hate, revenge, jealousy and money.

So, since Jason did not collect any money, since I doubt he was jealous of Michelle, and while he was not exactly being the most faithful, I am not sure how love or hate could play into it, so maybe revenge?

Kat

Kat, if Jason killed Michelle, the motive I would have to choose from your list is hate. I don't think it was about the LI money, I've seen no information that would substantiate jealousy or revenge, and I don't think he loved her. At least not any more.

But the old adage about a thin line between love and hate has been proven to be true. I still think Michelle was about to end the marriage, and IMO that meant the end of Jason's life as he knew it. A beautiful daughter, a nice home (with Michelle as the breadwinner), friends, season tickets to the Wolfpack games................all gone.

That was not to be tolerated, IMO.

[Kat4Eagles]

Hey Card. I think you are right. Just a theory, but maybe Spivey was just a detective on the case and, for some reason, Sternberg left or was reassigned elsewhere and Spivey
took over the lead.



That is interesting.

Why would a detective be reassigned or replaced, for that matter, on a case like this?

Kat

[annalyzer]

Kat, if Jason killed Michelle, the motive I would have to choose from your list is hate. I don't think it was about the LI money, I've seen no information that would substantiate jealousy or revenge, and I don't think he loved her. At least not any more.

But the old adage about a thin line between love and hate has been proven to be true. I still think Michelle was about to end the marriage, and IMO that meant the end of Jason's life as he knew it. A beautiful daughter, a nice home (with Michelle as the breadwinner), friends, season tickets to the Wolfpack games................all gone.

That was not to be tolerated, IMO.


Unless he was in love with the other Michelle and wanted his wife out of the way.

[Cardinal]

I don't know what she drives and never saw the article. Under what context was that mentioned? Was LE at the scene at the time? Could MF driven over for some reason the next day? Why would they search or impound the sister's vehicle if she had just came there? I don't see it. But I could be wrong.

Someone posted here that she drove a Honda sedan at the time. I don't know if that's true.

But I found the article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html

"On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open."

Why would anyone else's car be parked there? So if it were Meredith's, either she left it there, or LE kept it there.

[Cardinal]

That is interesting.

Why would a detective be reassigned or replaced, for that matter, on a case like this?

Kat

Maybe he got a better job somewhere else.

[Cardinal]

Unless he was in love with the other Michelle and wanted his wife out of the way.

Maybe, Anna, but I really don't think he was. I think the other Michelle was just someone who reinforced his concept of himself.

[Cardinal]

I, and many others, will be sitting, waiting it out with you. Time is running out for Jason.

It's nice to have company. :)

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:

[achristie]

Wait, we got to back up here.

If MY's car and MF's car was searched at the crime scene or impounded, then LE would have needed all the keys to the cars that day...

This is strange, that at such a later date, in the form of a search warrant, that these keys being switched or misplaced like this. comes out.

For it to come out at all, means something.
For it to have been overlooked and needing an explantation means something.
For it to be inferred to as a "revelation" in a search warrant, means something.

Kat:no: For this above statement you should be sure to state IMO. My opinion is that all this talk about the keys is a waste of time ; but that's just me. What are your thoughts on the missing clothes? The clothes that JY changed into an hour after arriving at the hotel? The clothes he was videotaped in? Where are those clothes?

MOO Aggie

[Kat4Eagles]

I wonder if N.C. DA's are a little a-skird after the Nifong problem in Durham. I think the Wake Co. Da is dotting his "I's" and crossing his "T's" to avoid anything resembling what happened in Durham.

It seems like this case may be the anti-Nifong case. In Durham they jumped and in Raleigh they are tiptoeing. But remember the fable, slow and steady wins the race.


There are only so many i's to dot and t's to cross.

I hope this case is way beyond that.
Kat

[annalyzer]

Someone posted here that she drove a Honda sedan at the time. I don't know if that's true.

But I found the article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html

"On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open."

Why would anyone else's car be parked there? So if it were Meredith's, either she left it there, or LE kept it there.

That was the same day as Meredith found the body. Probably shortly after the media heard about it and before Meredith left.

"Neighbors out on walks on the brisk fall day peered at the crime scene Friday afternoon and asked sheriff's deputies what was going on. Traffic slowed on the narrow street as motorists lowered car windows to inquire."

Yep, Friday afternoon.

[Kat4Eagles]

Maybe he got a better job somewhere else.


.........and, leave a unfinished case?

I wonder why!!

Maybe he knew there were some mistakes that had been made that would be hard to bring down an arrest on anyone?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Confused, I checked out your link, but I didn't see anything about a machine. What machine are you talking about?


I wasn't here then either, but I remember some old posts about the crime scene being sealed for 13 days and a large machine had been brought in, but I don't remember what it was for.

Kat

[achristie]

The 5 basic motives are love, hate, revenge, jealousy and money.

So, since Jason did not collect any money, since I doubt he was jealous of Michelle, and while he was not exactly being the most faithful, I am not sure how love or hate could play into it, so maybe revenge?

Kat

Five basic motives? According to whom?

[Kat4Eagles]

Actually, Kat, it isn't about what Jason owns. Michelle's Executrix is entitled to collect whatever Michelle owned.

I don't know about the Lexus being taken, but Linda would have been within her rights to take it. The judgment is for monetary damages, not for Michelle's assets.

But I won't argue about posting things here without links. Just earlier, someone posted that LE lied to the Youngs and seized their vehicle, illegally. There was no link.


Let's say, the car had been deeded to someone else.

Can L F still make a grab for it?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

All you need is a motive for a murder? When you lose someone you love to murder, you might change your mind. All you might need is justice for your loved one. Maybe not.


Of course, you want justice and closure, if there is any.

But, in order to have that, you must have enough proof and evidence to convince 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt.

This case does not even have an arrest.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

It's nice to have company. :)

Goodnight, everyone. :seeya:



Nite Card, good to see you again.

:)


Kat

[Leanne Weich]

Let's say, the car had been deeded to someone else.

Can L F still make a grab for it?

Kat

It will depend on if the car was in Michelle's name at the TOD. L F is not making a grab for anything, imo. She merely did what JY failed to do and that was to ensure that Michelle's estate was properly taken care of. With JY now having been declared the slayer of Michelle, he is deemed to have predeceased Michelle so I think it is likely that i.t.o. Michelle's will, Cassidy is probably the sole beneficiary unless MF made bequests of specific items to anyone else. Therefore, imo, Linda is not making a grab for anything but is merely protecting her grandchild's inheritance and ensuring that Michelle's estate is dealt with as she would have wanted it done.

[enigma™]

Didn't Jason's sister "make a grab" for Michelle's car after she were murdered? I wonder what else they have taken from her.

JMO


Her life and that of her unborn son, Rylan.

oops, you said after, but still.

[achristie]

Hi Aggie.

Where are the clothes? With the missing jewelry and murder weapon no doubt.

JMO

Where the missing clothes are , to me, is of much more import than where Meredith's keys were placed. Perhaps they are with the missing jewelry and murder weapon, never to be found. Yet they found that sweet child , Caylee Anthony, on a 'fluke'. Miracles do happen. One can only hope.

MOO Aggie

[achristie]

Exactly, and the keys are important.....or they would not have even been mentioned.

Search warrants are issued to obtain evidence, not explain things away..not at that stage of the game.

:confused:


Kat

I could be mistaken, but in the past, haven't you argued about SWs being issued to CLEAR people? Sorry if I have this wrong. Perhaps it was Mimi, June, Merriment, or Confused? I don't think the keys are in any way important. But that's just me, so I would agree with your latest statement that SW are issued to obtain evidence. That being said, when have you seen a SW issued for Meredith? I've followed since day one (almost) but could have missed it. Are there any SWs for MF ?

TIA Aggie

[tiny paw-prints]

I could be mistaken, but in the past, haven't you argued about SWs being issued to CLEAR people? Sorry if I have this wrong. Perhaps it was Mimi, June, Merriment, or Confused? I don't think the keys are in any way important. But that's just me, so I would agree with your latest statement that SW are issued to obtain evidence. That being said, when have you seen a SW issued for Meredith? I've followed since day one (almost) but could have missed it. Are there any SWs for MF ?

TIA Aggie

I also, would like to know the answer to your question!

I don't care to rehash the 911 call. But, it will be interesting to learn exactly what Cassidy had to say when the team of investigators arrived at the house.

I hope and pray that the custody proceedings regarding Cassidy are in favor of Linda Fisher without any hearing continuances or delays.

[tiny paw-prints]

It looks like she wants everything no matter what MY wanted. She sure isn't following MY's wishes in her will. IMO she has the money but she needs the child in order to use the money. I think if MY wanted her or MF to raise the child she would have said so in her will didn't happen.

I believe Michelle's "wishes" in any type of Last Will & Testament may have been different if she thought her husband was planning to murder her! Agree?

[achristie]

It looks like she wants everything no matter what MY wanted. She sure isn't following MY's wishes in her will. IMO she has the money but she needs the child in order to use the money. I think if MY wanted her or MF to raise the child she would have said so in her will didn't happen.

As a loving mother, I struggle with your logic. I gather from your posts you are a mother , as well. What life's experience have brought you to such a harsh conclusion? I suspect LF could care less about money. Your assessment is so far afield of mine that I am mystified.

MOO Aggie

[tiny paw-prints]

Hi Confused! Can you send a link to Michelle's will. I have never seen it. I haven't been here in a while and would rather not search if you don't mind.

Thanks!

I have never seen it either! Perhaps Michelle had a Will that was being drafted but not yet in final format and/or signed? It's possible that her killer might have known that the Will was being drafted prior to her murder? eek.

[JD1974]

What do you think it means when a client is advised not to talk to LE ?
Do you think it shows guilt ? That the atty thinks they will incriminate their self should they be interviewed by LE ?

I think that when LE says anything can and will be used against you they aren't joking around. Hypothetically say I am being questioned about a crime, I say I have an alibi because I know on that Tuesday I was watching a certain show therefore I was at home. Now the police find out that the show I watched wasn't on Tuesday that week it had been moved to Wednesday, now instead of making a mistake I am a liar who is trying to alibi myself . I know that is a really lame analysis but they can and do go that far. You can go to jail based on making a mistake when giving a statement.

The big thing though is once they get you in there they try to confuse you, the twist things you say to make them seem sinister when in all actuality they are maybe not. False confessions happen all the time, you wonder why someone would confess to something they haven't done? There are many reasons why they do though and it is a proven fact that it has happened.

[JD1974]

Do you think when she was leaving the home she went back through the garage?


Kat


Still doesn't explain why Michelle's keys where Meredith said she put hers, did she throw her keys on the Lexus then walk back into the house to put Michelle's keys on the counter? The odd part to me isn't that Meredith's keys were on the Lexus, the odd part is that Michelle's were where Meredith said she put hers...

[JD1974]

If Meredith murdered Michelle, she is really putting herself at risk by requesting custody of Cassidy along with Linda, don't you think?

The keys are of no importance at all and as you stated, nothing has even pointed toward Meredith.


Couldn't the same be said about the husband who murdered his wife and was getting away with it, until he gave a depo for the life ins money...why would he do that knowing he had killed his wife? Why did Scott Peterson put himself at risk and say he was fishing in the bay when he knew there was a chance Laci's body could be found there? Sometimes people do the exact opposite you would expect them to, because they expect people would say the same thing you are saying. Why would they do this or that when it risks putting them in jeopardy?

[daddydidit]

I would think there would be photos of the keys on the counter and keys on the car. What we don't know is where did MY keep her keys. We keep ours hanging on a key hook in the kitchen not on the counter. JY should know where they normally would keep their keys. With a 2 year old in the house I would think up high. LOL


Yes, you are right. JY should know where the keys are normally kept.
But, remember - he isn't talking.

[alter ego]

Do you really think the lead investigator in Michelle's case would value his mindset more than justice for her? Do you not think that, after seeing that crime scene and talking to Michelle's family and friends and understanding what an unfathomable loss had occurred, he wouldn't do anything necessary to achieve justice for her? Regardless of what that meant?

If you do, then obviously nothing will convince you otherwise. That's fine. But I don't believe that for a minute.
Do I think it's possible? Absolutely. And it wouldn't be the first time LE suffered from tunnel vision or the inability to admit they were wrong either.

[annalyzer]

Still doesn't explain why Michelle's keys where Meredith said she put hers, did she throw her keys on the Lexus then walk back into the house to put Michelle's keys on the counter? The odd part to me isn't that Meredith's keys were on the Lexus, the odd part is that Michelle's were where Meredith said she put hers...


Aha.......

[lonetraveler]

Women kill all the time. They kill their kids ,their mothers ,fathers and the siblings. Tru has a list of famous woman that have killed. I don't know what makes them famous.


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/


---
Yes, women do kill all the time. However, women killing their sisters is very rare. Try researching this, it will not take you long because there aren't very many.

[alter ego]

---
Yes, women do kill all the time. However, women killing their sisters is very rare. Try researching this, it will not take you long because there aren't very many.
yup, it's rare, but it does happen.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/siblingtab.htm

[Leanne Weich]

Still doesn't explain why Michelle's keys where Meredith said she put hers, did she throw her keys on the Lexus then walk back into the house to put Michelle's keys on the counter? The odd part to me isn't that Meredith's keys were on the Lexus, the odd part is that Michelle's were where Meredith said she put hers...

I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that Michelle would put her keys on the counter with her handbag and that Meredith, when visiting, would also put hers on the counter. I notice in my home that everyone puts their keys on our counter and the hooks have all kinds of other crap hanging on them.

Then again, had Jason done a walk through of the home with LE, those are the kind of questions I'm sure they'd have loved him to answer.

[alter ego]

Still doesn't explain why Michelle's keys where Meredith said she put hers, did she throw her keys on the Lexus then walk back into the house to put Michelle's keys on the counter? The odd part to me isn't that Meredith's keys were on the Lexus, the odd part is that Michelle's were where Meredith said she put hers...
And even odder that she told LE she put her keys on the counter upon entering the house as per her normal habit. Can you imagine if it was Jason saying that instead of Meredith? No excuse of being in shock would be afforded to him, that's for sure!

[Cardinal]

And even odder that she told LE she put her keys on the counter upon entering the house as per her normal habit. ~snipped~

Why is that odd? Can you say with certainty that she didn't do exactly that? Can you say with certainty that she didn't put them on the hood of the car on her way out of the house?

[Cardinal]

Honestly, what I find odd is the utter fascination with a set a car keys, given the scope of the information available for discussion. Especially since LE has obviously moved on to other aspects of the investigation that have nothing to do with keys or Michelle's vehicle.

If someone could give me a reasonable explanation of the significance of the car keys, I would appreciate it.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It looks like she wants everything no matter what MY wanted. She sure isn't following MY's wishes in her will. IMO she has the money but she needs the child in order to use the money. I think if MY wanted her or MF to raise the child she would have said so in her will didn't happen.

What were MY's wishes if her husband were to have killed her?

I don't know if she included this in her will but something tells me it would have changed everything. When Jason was declared the Slayer, things changed as well. Jason is going to lose everything. Slayers are not rewarded for their actions.

I don't believe for one second that a judge will allow a child to remain with a Slayer. Especially is the Slayer will not testify, give a deposition, or undergo a psych exam. And why would Jason break his silence now? Sure, his family and friends will be able to testify, but it's not the same. When the Fisher's witnesses finish it will be done. Jason will only have his freedom......but for how long?

[jerry50]

I would think there would be photos of the keys on the counter and keys on the car. What we don't know is where did MY keep her keys. We keep ours hanging on a key hook in the kitchen not on the counter. JY should know where they normally would keep their keys. With a 2 year old in the house I would think up high. LOL

Yes, I agree that JY would know where Michelle left her keys. It's too bad that he has not offered to help LE in their investigation. Maybe they could use their time more wisely in searching for the killer instead of having to investigate every little detail of the Young's home life and habits through third parties.

[jerry50]

I have never seen it either! Perhaps Michelle had a Will that was being drafted but not yet in final format and/or signed? It's possible that her killer might have known that the Will was being drafted prior to her murder? eek.

That's really a good thought. Maybe Michelle didn't want Heather anymore as guardian and let others in the family know about it and that left her vulnerable to being murdered. Stranger things have been suggested.

[jerry50]

You believe he did I haven't reached that conclusion .

Recently a judge declared JY the slayer of Michelle in a court of law. That is somethinig that the judge did not take lightly.

[jerry50]

Blood in the car would have sealed the deal.


Kat

No it wouldn't. Can you prove BARD that the blood was placed there the night of the murder?

[JHP]

That's really a good thought. Maybe Michelle didn't want Heather anymore as guardian and let others in the family know about it and that left her vulnerable to being murdered. Stranger things have been suggested.

I have often thought that it was very interesting that the 4 people in the car from Brevard to Raleigh were the same 4 people who were on the CA trip that Michelle was reportedly unhappy about.

JMO

[alter ego]

Why is that odd? Can you say with certainty that she didn't do exactly that? Can you say with certainty that she didn't put them on the hood of the car on her way out of the house?Sure I can. If that were the case she would have splained it to LE and the revelation that it was her keys on the hood of Michelle's car would not have been of such interest to LE.

[alter ego]

Honestly, what I find odd is the utter fascination with a set a car keys, given the scope of the information available for discussion. Especially since LE has obviously moved on to other aspects of the investigation that have nothing to do with keys or Michelle's vehicle.

If someone could give me a reasonable explanation of the significance of the car keys, I would appreciate it.
The keys are up for discussion also as they were a big part of a SW.

The significance of the keys is outlined in the SW - they planted the idea in LE's mind that Cassidy was removed from the house and was so clean because of that removal.

[Kat4Eagles]

Why is that odd? Can you say with certainty that she didn't do exactly that? Can you say with certainty that she didn't put them on the hood of the car on her way out of the house?

So, in the confusion of being escorted from the home after finding your dead sister's body, you would pick up keys on the counter and throw them on the hood of a Lexus.?

Because......................?

It could be explained that when MF entered the garage, she saw the door to the home ajar, but then again where would that leave Mr. G?

Kat

[alter ego]

Recently a judge declared JY the slayer of Michelle in a court of law. That is somethinig that the judge did not take lightly.With such a low burden of proof in a tort action, it's not a ruling that weighed heavily on his mind.

[Kat4Eagles]

Honestly, what I find odd is the utter fascination with a set a car keys, given the scope of the information available for discussion. Especially since LE has obviously moved on to other aspects of the investigation that have nothing to do with keys or Michelle's vehicle.

If someone could give me a reasonable explanation of the significance of the car keys, I would appreciate it.


Then, what I find odd is the need to mention them at all, in a search warrant with a explanation.

And, until there is an arrest........everyone close to Michelle should be looked at.

And, remember the last time we were expecting just the one s/w to be unsealed and released?

:no: There were 4 of them!!

So, who knows what else is out there we don't know about!!

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Recently a judge declared JY the slayer of Michelle in a court of law. That is somethinig that the judge did not take lightly.


Only in a civil court.
And, only because he chose not to fight it.
Maybe he doesn't care about money and property.
I think he will fight for C though.

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

With such a low burden of proof in a tort action, it's not a ruling that weighed heavily on his mind.

I think it will weigh heavily in the custody suit. I believe that Judge Sasser will give it a great deal of weight if you look at how she ruled in the Cooper case.

[Kat4Eagles]

No it wouldn't. Can you prove BARD that the blood was placed there the night of the murder?


If it was Michelle's blood found right after the murder, it would need a really good explanation.

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Only in a civil court.
And, only because he chose not to fight it.
Maybe he doesn't care about money and property.
I think he will fight for C though.

Kat

The custody case will be in civil court.
Why would he fight now? If he breaks his silence he runs the risk of doing exactly what his lawyers have feared he would do. Spill the beans, not be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube, incriminate himself. Remember what his mom said....You don't talk period. I can't see a judge, especially this one with her ruling in the Cooper case, ruling in Jason favor without his testimony, psych exam, etc.

[alter ego]

No it wouldn't. Can you prove BARD that the blood was placed there the night of the murder?Sure, if there is other CE from which to draw the inference that it was left there the night of the murder.

[alter ego]

The custody case will be in civil court.
Why would he fight now? If he breaks his silence he runs the risk of doing exactly what his lawyers have feared he would do. Spill the beans, not be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube, incriminate himself. Remember what his mom said....You don't talk period. I can't see a judge, especially this one with her ruling in the Cooper case, ruling in Jason favor without his testimony, psych exam, etc.
I thought custody hearings were in family court.

[alter ego]

I think it will weigh heavily in the custody suit. I believe that Judge Sasser will give it a great deal of weight if you look at how she ruled in the Cooper case.From the opinions I have read, it takes clear and convincing evidence to strip a parent of their constitutionally protected status. The burden of proof in a tort action is far lower than 'clear and convincing'.

I will be curious to see if the court wonders why the Fishers waited over 2 years to tell a court about Jason's erratic and inappropriate behavior.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I thought custody hearings were in family court.

I don't know how it works where you live, but in NC family court is a civil court not criminal court.

[Kat4Eagles]

With such a low burden of proof in a tort action, it's not a ruling that weighed heavily on his mind.


And, isn't it a lot easier to be awarded a *judgement, than to actually collect it? *re: OJ Simpson

And, if Jason were trying to hide assets, he would have sold the townhome, and spent the money.

I wonder if it is possible Jason's attorney holds any deeds for legal expenses or has frozen Jason's accounts after the WDS ruling?

It could take years of court proceedures to collect.

It is a lot easier to win a case on paper.

It is a lot easier to name someone a slayer, than an actual murderer too.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

[QUOTE=alter ego;12621569

<snipped>

I will be curious to see if the court wonders why the Fishers waited over 2 years to tell a court about Jason's erratic and inappropriate behavior.[/QUOTE]





I have asked the same thing here, repeatedly.

Why did they wait?

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

From the opinions I have read, it takes clear and convincing evidence to strip a parent of their constitutionally protected status. The burden of proof in a tort action is far lower than 'clear and convincing'.

I will be curious to see if the court wonders why the Fishers waited over 2 years to tell a court about Jason's erratic and inappropriate behavior.

"constitutionally protected status."

Please show me where "parental status" is addressed in the constitution. I can assure you that I have never seen the words "parental status" used in the constitution. Seems like this could be a case of someone not knowing their constitution. Just like the "constitutional right to vote". It ain't in the constitution. You have no federal right to vote.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

And, isn't it a lot easier to be awarded a *judgement, than to actually collect it? *re: OJ Simpson

And, if Jason were trying to hide assets, he would have sold the townhome, and spent the money.

I wonder if it is possible Jason's attorney holds any deeds for legal expenses or has frozen Jason's accounts after the WDS ruling?

It could take years of court proceedures to collect.

It is a lot easier to win a case on paper.

It is a lot easier to name someone a slayer, than an actual murderer too.

Kat

"IF" someone is fighting against it. Jason is not going to fight anything in a civil court of law. He can't do it because he would need to take the stand. He is not going to talk period. His hands are as tied as his mouth is shut. He can't do anything without risking his freedom. They have him. His silence is his best weapon in the criminal arena and his worst liability in the civil arena. He has put his first love, himself, before everything else. I don't think he will break his silence to keep his daughter. He loves himself that much.

[JHP]

"constitutionally protected status."

Please show me where "parental status" is addressed in the constitution. I can assure you that I have never seen the words "parental status" used in the constitution. Seems like this could be a case of someone not knowing their constitution. Just like the "constitutional right to vote". It ain't in the constitution. You have no federal right to vote.


But it sure sounds good doesn't it? What do you think BSNBREVARDNC, that Jason will just blow this one off also?
I think Grandma and Heather would fight for Cassidy, but I don't think they'll throw Jason under the bus to be able to keep her.
It will be quite expensive to fight this also, I wonder if that will come into play.

[JHP]

Sorry BSNBREVARDNC, you were answering while I was posting.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

But it sure sounds good doesn't it? What do you think BSNBREVARDNC, that Jason will just blow this one off also?
I think Grandma and Heather would fight for Cassidy, but I don't think they'll throw Jason under the bus to be able to keep her.
It will be quite expensive to fight this also, I wonder if that will come into play.

I just don't see him going this far and throwing it all away now. For the rest of the Youngs it will come down to blood being thicker than water. And Jason is more their blood than CY. Remember, she is half Fisher and we know how the Youngs feel about the Fishers.