Jan. 2 - Jan. 12

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I don't believe if MY's blood was on JY's car the evening of her murder it would be CE. I think it would be evidence pure and simple.

What do you think CE is?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/235886/the_four_types_of_evidence.html?cat=17

"Circumstantial evidence includes body fluids, fibers, and expert witnesses"

I think blood would be considered a "body fluid".

BTW in NC "And the judge will instruct you that in regards to circumstantial evidence, that is proof of a chain or group of facts and circumstances indicating the guilt or innocence of a defendant, that the law makes no distinction between the weight to be given to either direct or circumstantial evidence, nor is a greater degree of certainty required of circumstantial evidence."

http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/coa/opinions/2002/unpub/011085-1.htm

[BSNBREVARDNC]

It's amazing what you can find on the net with a day off from work.

[jerry50]

With such a low burden of proof in a tort action, it's not a ruling that weighed heavily on his mind.


If it was such a low burden of proof there would be lawsuits all over the place.
If you read down to the end of the ruling the judge says he finds it as fact after reading all the affidavits that is is a fact that JY is the slayer. No where does he state that JY is the killer because he did not show up in court.

[annalyzer]

I don't believe if MY's blood was on JY's car the evening of her murder it would be CE. I think it would be evidence pure and simple.

It would have been enough evidence to arrest and most likely convict.

[alter ego]

"constitutionally protected status."

Please show me where "parental status" is addressed in the constitution. I can assure you that I have never seen the words "parental status" used in the constitution. Seems like this could be a case of someone not knowing their constitution. Just like the "constitutional right to vote". It ain't in the constitution. You have no federal right to vote.
I can assure you it's not something I made up out of whole cloth,if you have an issue with the wording or application of law, you need to take it up with the appellate jurists in NC.

"The dispositive issue in this case is whether the trial court applied the clear and convincing standard of proof in deciding that plaintiff's conduct was inconsistent with her constitutionally protected status as a natural parent.
“[N]atural parents have a constitutionally protected interest in the companionship, custody, care, and control of their children.” Price v. Howard, 346 N.C. 68, 72, 484 S.E.2d 528, 530 (1997). This “constitutionally protected paramount interest . . . is a counterpart of the parental responsibilities the parent has assumed and is based on a presumption that he or she will act in the best interest of the child.” Price, 346 N.C. at 79, 484 S.E.2d at 534 (citing Lehr v. Robertson, 463 U.S. 248, 77 L. Ed. 2d 614 (1983) and In re Hughes, 254 N.C. 434, 119 S.E.2d 189 (1961)). The parent's interest “rises to the level of a liberty interest and is protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.” Penland v. Harris, 135 N.C. App. 359, 362, 520 S.E.2d 105, 107(1999) (citing Price). "

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals2005/&invol=040703-1

[alter ego]

I don't know how it works where you live, but in NC family court is a civil court not criminal court.We have Family Court. Along w/civil and criminal court.

Appears NC has a Family Court division also.

The Commission for the Future of Justice and the Courts (the "Futures Commission") recommended the establishment of Family Courts in its 1996 report, Without Favor, Denial or Delay.

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CPrograms/Family/Default.asp?topic=1

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CPrograms/Family/Documents/unifiedfamilycourts-guidelines.pdf

Amazing indeed what one can find on the internet on one's day off.

[alter ego]

If it was such a low burden of proof there would be lawsuits all over the place.
If you read down to the end of the ruling the judge says he finds it as fact after reading all the affidavits that is is a fact that JY is the slayer. No where does he state that JY is the killer because he did not show up in court.Well there are lasw suits all over the place.

Never said anything about a decision being made cuz Jason didn't show up.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

We have Family Court. Along w/civil and criminal court.

Appears NC has a Family Court division also.

The Commission for the Future of Justice and the Courts (the "Futures Commission") recommended the establishment of Family Courts in its 1996 report, Without Favor, Denial or Delay.

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CPrograms/Family/Default.asp?topic=1

http://www.nccourts.org/Citizens/CPrograms/Family/Documents/unifiedfamilycourts-guidelines.pdf

Amazing indeed what one can find on the internet on one's day off.

AND they hear civil proceedings not criminal proceedings. Family Court is a civil, not a criminal, court.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I can assure you it's not something I made up out of whole cloth,if you have an issue with the wording or application of law, you need to take it up with the appellate jurists in NC.

"The dispositive issue in this case is whether the trial court applied the clear and convincing standard of proof in deciding that plaintiff's conduct was inconsistent with her constitutionally protected status as a natural parent.
“[N]atural parents have a constitutionally protected interest in the companionship, custody, care, and control of their children.” Price v. Howard, 346 N.C. 68, 72, 484 S.E.2d 528, 530 (1997). This “constitutionally protected paramount interest . . . is a counterpart of the parental responsibilities the parent has assumed and is based on a presumption that he or she will act in the best interest of the child.” Price, 346 N.C. at 79, 484 S.E.2d at 534 (citing Lehr v. Robertson, 463 U.S. 248, 77 L. Ed. 2d 614 (1983) and In re Hughes, 254 N.C. 434, 119 S.E.2d 189 (1961)). The parent's interest “rises to the level of a liberty interest and is protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.” Penland v. Harris, 135 N.C. App. 359, 362, 520 S.E.2d 105, 107(1999) (citing Price). "

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=nc&vol=appeals2005/&invol=040703-1

So you contend that the removal of any child from any parent's custody is unconstitutional?

BTW, these are interpretations from varies courts. Please quote the part of the constitution that talks about parents having a protected status. (You will not find it because it does not exist) Have you found the Constitutional Amendment that gives the citizens the right to vote? It's probably next to the one that talks about parents and their special status.

[alter ego]

AND they hear civil proceedings not criminal proceedings. Family Court is a civil, not a criminal, court.No, they hear family proceedings, hence the court division name of Family Court. In fact, they have jurisdiction over juvenile delinquency charges and domestic violence according the link I provided. Are you implying that domestic violence isn't a criminal matter?

[alter ego]

So you contend that the removal of any child from any parent's custody is unconstitutional?

BTW, these are interpretations from varies courts. Please quote the part of the constitution that talks about parents having a protected status. (You will not find it because it does not exist) Have you found the Constitutional Amendment that gives the citizens the right to vote? It's probably next to the one that talks about parents and their special status.
Not if they waive that right by actions that are inconsistent with it - like abuse and neglect.

If you have an issue with the way the appellate jurists in your state interpret and apply the 14th amendment, then by all means, write them a letter. It's their words in their rulings that state natural parents have a constitionally protected status - it's not my words, it's theirs. I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of case law, which is what the rulings quoted are - application of case law is the cornerstone of our judicial process.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that the US Constitution doesn't explicitly grant the right the vote but does bar the denial of the right to vote based on skin color or gender has any bearing on NC courts ruling a natural parent has a constitutionally protected status as a parent.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Not if they waive that right by actions that are inconsistent with it - like abuse and neglect.

If you have an issue with the way the appellate jurists in your state interpret and apply the 14th amendment, then by all means, write them a letter. It's their words in their rulings that state natural parents have a constitionally protected status - it's not my words, it's theirs. I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of case law, which is what the rulings quoted are - application of case law is the cornerstone of our judicial process.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that the US Constitution doesn't explicitly grant the right the vote but does bar the denial of the right to vote based on skin color or gender has any bearing on NC courts ruling a natural parent has a constitutionally protected status as a parent.

I'm just bored I guess?:tonguewag:

Searching for entertainment and a diversion. Talk to you later.

[kingbuff]

Just what I was wondering. What does right to vote have to do with this case? Maybe somebody wants to show how smart he is and what a great constitutional scholar he is? Okay. I'm convinced. I vote we stay with the case. I'm still not clear on why Fisher filed her custody case in Raleigh rather than Brevard.

[Leanne Weich]

Just what I was wondering. What does right to vote have to do with this case? Maybe somebody wants to show how smart he is and what a great constitutional scholar he is? Okay. I'm convinced. I vote we stay with the case. I'm still not clear on why Fisher filed her custody case in Raleigh rather than Brevard.

If the case lands up being dismissed because of an error in jurisdiction, that is the fault of Linda's attorneys and I'm sure they'll just file in the right Court. I haven't looked at the NC Statutes to see if there is not perhaps a provision for the case to be filed in the jurisdiction where the cause of action arose - that could well be the case, imo.

[Lindsey]

If the case lands up being dismissed because of an error in jurisdiction, that is the fault of Linda's attorneys and I'm sure they'll just file in the right Court. I haven't looked at the NC Statutes to see if there is not perhaps a provision for the case to be filed in the jurisdiction where the cause of action arose - that could well be the case, imo.


I can see why the WD suit was filed in Wake Co but this is a custody suit. Jason has been living in Brevard for the past two years. IIRC, most or many of the 'causes of action' have occured since Michelle died so why was it filed in Wake Co. ?

[alter ego]

If the case lands up being dismissed because of an error in jurisdiction, that is the fault of Linda's attorneys and I'm sure they'll just file in the right Court. I haven't looked at the NC Statutes to see if there is not perhaps a provision for the case to be filed in the jurisdiction where the cause of action arose - that could well be the case, imo.

§ 50‑13.5. Procedure in actions for custody or support of minor children.

a) Procedure. – The procedure in actions for custody and support of minor children shall be as in civil actions, except as provided in this section and in G.S. 50‑19. In this G.S. 50‑13.5 the words "custody and support" shall be deemed to include custody or support, or both.

f) Venue. – An action or proceeding in the courts of this State for custody and support of a minor child may be maintained in the county where the child resides or is physically present or in a county where a parent resides, except as hereinafter provided [that being annulment, divorce or alimony without divorce]


http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_50.html

[Kat4Eagles]

It would have been enough evidence to arrest and most likely convict.


I agree, Anna, they might have hauled him in that very nite.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I can see why the WD suit was filed in Wake Co but this is a custody suit. Jason has been living in Brevard for the past two years. IIRC, most or many of the 'causes of action' have occured since Michelle died so why was it filed in Wake Co. ?

Good question, and there is another thing to remember..

All kinds of stuff is going to come out about both sides.(finally)

Maybe , we will have an answer why the Fishers waited 2 years
to seek custody or even vistation rights.

People will be asked to be character witnesses on both sides, right?

Could be interesting.

Kat

[Cardinal]

§ 50‑13.5. Procedure in actions for custody or support of minor children.

a) Procedure. – The procedure in actions for custody and support of minor children shall be as in civil actions, except as provided in this section and in G.S. 50‑19. In this G.S. 50‑13.5 the words "custody and support" shall be deemed to include custody or support, or both.

f) Venue. – An action or proceeding in the courts of this State for custody and support of a minor child may be maintained in the county where the child resides or is physically present or in a county where a parent resides, except as hereinafter provided [that being annulment, divorce or alimony without divorce]


http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_50.html

Linda didn't file under GS 50 - that's for custody in cases of divorce.

She filed under GS 50A:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungCustody.pdf (page 4)

"Pursuant to N.C. Gen. Stat., Section 50A-201...."

GS 50A-201 isn't county-specific:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_50A/GS_50A-201.pdf

I imagine Linda filed in Wake County because Meredith lives there and their attorneys practice there.


ETA: And Judge Sasser is there.

[Cardinal]

Just what I was wondering. What does right to vote have to do with this case? Maybe somebody wants to show how smart he is and what a great constitutional scholar he is? Okay. I'm convinced. I vote we stay with the case. I'm still not clear on why Fisher filed her custody case in Raleigh rather than Brevard.

Oh, good, you're back. So you can answer my question from last night:

How do you know Michelle's killer had no motive?

[Kat4Eagles]

Just what I was wondering. What does right to vote have to do with this case? Maybe somebody wants to show how smart he is and what a great constitutional scholar he is? Okay. I'm convinced. I vote we stay with the case. I'm still not clear on why Fisher filed her custody case in Raleigh rather than Brevard.



I am not sure either, KB, but there is so much about this case that is not clear.

L E played this case so closely, and then with the release of the last s/w's just seemed to want to get a lot of things out, things that maybe were not necessary at the time..

I wonder why a lot of the info released could not have been blacked out on the s/w until a trial.

Like the keys and their explanation, almost a sure pre~emptive strike tactic.

Why, though?

Kat

[Cardinal]

I am not sure either, KB, but there is so much about this case that is not clear.

L E played this case so closely, and then with the release of the last s/w's just seemed to want to get a lot of things out, things that maybe were not necessary at the time..

I wonder why a lot of the info released could not have been blacked out on the s/w until a trial.

Like the keys and their explanation, almost a sure pre~emptive strike tactic.

Why, though?

Kat

A red herring?

[Kat4Eagles]

Oh, good, you're back. So you can answer my question from last night:

How do you know Michelle's killer had no motive?



Not KB, but raising hand.!!

:drum roll:

Answer:

"Because the murder of Michelle Young was not supposed to happen at all..."

Kat

[Cardinal]

Not KB, but raising hand.!!

:drum roll:

Answer:

"Because the murder of Michelle Young was not supposed to happen at all..."

Kat

Ah.........because???

[Kat4Eagles]

A red herring?


Hey Card.:)

Why would L E want to draw away from the real issues, though?

They would not need any excuse to seize Michelle's car whenever they wanted.

It worries me when I see the dates of some of the things they have done though.

How about you?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Ah.........because???


Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO
Kat

[Cardinal]

Hey Card.:)

Why would L E want to draw away from the real issues, though?

They would not need any excuse to seize Michelle's car whenever they wanted.

It worries me when I see the dates of some of the things they have done though.

How about you?

Kat

I've made no secret of the fact that some things still don't fit for me. And I also believe there were some mistakes in the beginning stages of this investigation. Maybe that's the real reason Spivey replaced Sternberger.

But they would need an excuse to seize Michelle's car 8 months after the murder. It might even take a revelation, eh?

And I still think the language in the SW is more about the location of Michelle's keys. The whole point, as AE kindly pointed out earlier, was that LE was exploring whether or not Cassidy had been removed from the home in Michelle's car. I think they justified the SW based upon Michelle's keys being some place other than their usual location.

[Cardinal]

Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO

Kat

Even though we likely have different suspects in mind :) I agree with a lot of what you've said.

But I haven't seen anything to indicate that more than one person was present at the time of the murder.

[Kat4Eagles]

Even though we likely have different suspects in mind :) I agree with a lot of what you've said.

But I haven't seen anything to indicate that more than one person was present at the time of the murder.


Even 2 different sizes of shoe prints?

I have always thought that something escalated in that house that nite/am that got to the point of no turning back.

That things just kept going wrong and getting out of hand.

It was almost like it was them or Michelle.

It could almost be like something where Michelle had won before, but this time, she not only was not going to win,
but she was going to pay for it....

JMO
Kat

[Barbara2]

Even 2 different sizes of shoe prints?

I have always thought that something escalated in that house that nite/am that got to the point of no turning back.

That things just kept going wrong and getting out of hand.

It was almost like it was them or Michelle.

JMO
Kat

If that were the case there would have been more evidence at the scene, IMO.

[Silsbee]

Ah.........because???

Good evening Card. I don't think this murder was planned. I think it is something that happened in the moment - so the motive may not be as apparent.

Sils

[Cardinal]

Even 2 different sizes of shoe prints?

I have always thought that something escalated in that house that nite/am that got to the point of no turning back.

That things just kept going wrong and getting out of hand.

It was almost like it was them or Michelle.

It could almost be like something where Michelle had won before, but this time, she not only was not going to win,
but she was going to pay for it....

JMO
Kat

The 2 different sized shoe prints are one of the things that don't fit for me. But despite the vague language in the SW, there is a reasonable inference to be drawn from the shoe prints in the deck stain. Who stained the deck?

For the rest of your post - that's an eerie scenario. And I think you're right. But again, it's likely we have different suspects in mind.

[Kat4Eagles]

If that were the case there would have been more evidence at the scene, IMO.


Ah, but according to Donnie, there was lots and lots of stuff (evidence) left at the scene.!!!

Enough for him to say it was a complicated case.

Enough for it to remain an unsolved murder case.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Good evening Card. I don't think this murder was planned. I think it is something that happened in the moment - so the motive may not be as apparent.

Sils


Hi Sils, I could not agree more.

:)

Kat

[Cardinal]

Good evening Card. I don't think this murder was planned. I think it is something that happened in the moment - so the motive may not be as apparent.

Sils

Hi, Sils. I don't think it was planned, either. Too messy. But that doesn't negate a motive, does it?

[Barbara2]

Ah, but according to Donnie, there was lots and lots of stuff (evidence) left at the scene.!!!

Enough for him to say it was a complicated case.

Enough for it to remain an unsolved murder case.

Kat

I agree, but all of that evidence seems to point to Jason. That makes it complicated because certain evidence from the husband would be expected to be in the house since he lived there. I would think they would have found a significant amount of foreign or stranger evidence if your scenario were plausible.

[Cardinal]

I was more interested in the way they got the kids DNA. Why wouldn't they have had her DNA from day one?

Apparently not. But you make an interesting point. The SW for Cassidy's DNA and the SW for Michelle's SUV were issued at the same time. Kind of an either/or search, don't you think? I mean, Cassidy was either clean because she was removed, or she was clean because she was drugged. Pick one.

[Kat4Eagles]

I was more interested in the way they got the kids DNA. Why wouldn't they have had her DNA from day one?


They should have, and you made a good list of things they failed to do.

I am starting to wonder, if the investigation had stalled somewhat, and maybe they just needed an excuse to go bug Jason..

I can not think of anything more frustrating or aggravating for L E to know that someone killed someone and to not be able to prove it.

And, to have to go straight by the book.


Kat

[Silsbee]

I've made no secret of the fact that some things still don't fit for me. And I also believe there were some mistakes in the beginning stages of this investigation. Maybe that's the real reason Spivey replaced Sternberger.

But they would need an excuse to seize Michelle's car 8 months after the murder. It might even take a revelation, eh?

And I still think the language in the SW is more about the location of Michelle's keys. The whole point, as AE kindly pointed out earlier, was that LE was exploring whether or not Cassidy had been removed from the home in Michelle's car. I think they justified the SW based upon Michelle's keys being some place other than their usual location.

So we're talking about the keys again - lol. The fact that they pointed out the "confusion over the keys" still suggests they were also interested in why Meredith's keys were found on Michelle's car. The SW does not state that Michelle's keys were not in their usual location. If it was that simple - why not say "Michelle's keys are normally kept here but were found here instead."

I still don't know how they would know where Michelle normally keeps her keys. (and I'm not suggesting that you do - just thinking out loud).

I think we have come full circle again. :wink:

Sils

[Silsbee]

Even though we likely have different suspects in mind :) I agree with a lot of what you've said.

But I haven't seen anything to indicate that more than one person was present at the time of the murder.


The two different shoe sizes?

Sils

[Kat4Eagles]

Apparently not. But you make an interesting point. The SW for Cassidy's DNA and the SW for Michelle's SUV were issued at the same time. Kind of an either/or search, don't you think? I mean, Cassidy was either clean because she was removed, or she was clean because she was drugged. Pick one.

But, at some point her socks were wet or soaked from the pool of blood surrounding Michelle, and she did know that Michelle had wounds.

Now , when exactly did she find that out?

And, that brings me back to the word "Remember" on the tape, when asked by MF what happened.

Kat

[Cardinal]

They should have, and you made a good list of things they failed to do.

I am starting to wonder, if the investigation had stalled somewhat, and maybe they just needed an excuse to go bug Jason..

I can not think of anything more frustrating or aggravating for L E to know that someone killed someone and to not be able to prove it.

And, to have to go straight by the book.


Kat

I'm sure they're very frustrated, Kat. Look at us, for heaven's sake! Imagine being responsible for solving this murder instead of just talking about it.

But I don't think it was an excuse to bug Jason. I think they started over, re-examined everything they had, realized they needed more, and got it the best way they could - being constrained by the book. :)

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree, but all of that evidence seems to point to Jason. That makes it complicated because certain evidence from the husband would be expected to be in the house since he lived there. I would think they would have found a significant amount of foreign or stranger evidence if your scenario were plausible.


But, we don't know that they didn't.

And, while I can't think of any good reason to name someone a slayer, just because, it also does not eliminate other people from the scene or committing the crime either.

Kat

[Cardinal]

So we're talking about the keys again - lol. The fact that they pointed out the "confusion over the keys" still suggests they were also interested in why Meredith's keys were found on Michelle's car. The SW does not state that Michelle's keys were not in their usual location. If it was that simple - why not say "Michelle's keys are normally kept here but were found here instead."

I still don't know how they would know where Michelle normally keeps her keys. (and I'm not suggesting that you do - just thinking out loud).

I think we have come full circle again. :wink:

Sils

I think we have. LOL

I really think they were pulling out all of the stops to look at everything they could. That's a good thing.

But they apparently didn't find anything useful from either SW. Which is unfortunate. Because, differences in suspects aside, I have long thought there might have been an accomplice.

[annalyzer]

But, at some point her socks were wet or soaked from the pool of blood surrounding Michelle, and she did know that Michelle had wounds.

Now , when exactly did she find that out?

And, that brings me back to the word "Remember" on the tape, when asked by MF what happened.

Kat


Oh lord I remember the long drawn out reasons/excuses discussions of why a two year old would say "remember". :blink:

[achristie]

Good question, and there is another thing to remember..

All kinds of stuff is going to come out about both sides.(finally)

Snipped

Could be interesting.

Kat

Finally? You know more about both sides? Do you have inside info?
If so, I agree it could be interesting.

MOO Aggie

[Cardinal]

But, at some point her socks were wet or soaked from the pool of blood surrounding Michelle, and she did know that Michelle had wounds.

Now , when exactly did she find that out?

And, that brings me back to the word "Remember" on the tape, when asked by MF what happened.

Kat

Kat, I have a really hard time understanding Cassidy on that tape. I'd love to hear the "enhanced version" some people claim is out there.

Can you tell what she says before or after the word "remember"?

[mysterybuff]

Not KB, but raising hand.!!

:drum roll:

Answer:

"Because the murder of Michelle Young was not supposed to happen at all..."

Kat

What was supposed to happen?

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm sure they're very frustrated, Kat. Look at us, for heaven's sake! Imagine being responsible for solving this murder instead of just talking about it.

But I don't think it was an excuse to bug Jason. I think they started over, re-examined everything they had, realized they needed more, and got it the best way they could - being constrained by the book. :)

Oh, I know it.

I even swore off following the case for one of my New Year's resolutions.

I hope I have better luck with the rest of the ones I made.
:)

Kat

[Barbara2]

But, we don't know that they didn't.

And, while I can't think of any good reason to name someone a slayer, just because, it also does not eliminate other people from the scene either.

Kat

If they had evidence that pointed to someone else besides Jason, we would see SWs directed towards others. There is a reason (probably many) other than what we have seen that leads the investigator to declare that he believes that Jason killed his wife and unborn child, IMO.

[Cardinal]

Oh, I know it.

I even swore off following the case for one of my New Year's resolutions.

I hope I have better luck with the rest of the ones I made.
:)

Kat

So THAT's why you weren't around!

C'mon Kat, you are as vested in this as the rest of us. Despite the differences, you want to see this through.

Hopefully, there will be a trial before too much more time passes, and we can all know that Michelle has finally received justice. No matter what form it takes.

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, I have a really hard time understanding Cassidy on that tape. I'd love to hear the "enhanced version" some people claim is out there.

Can you tell what she says before or after the word "remember"?

I could and I will, if you give me until tomorrow. although I do not have access to the new and improved enhanced version.
:cough:

It is almost time for 90210..

:)
Kat

[annalyzer]

I am not sure either, KB, but there is so much about this case that is not clear.

L E played this case so closely, and then with the release of the last s/w's just seemed to want to get a lot of things out, things that maybe were not necessary at the time..

I wonder why a lot of the info released could not have been blacked out on the s/w until a trial.

Like the keys and their explanation, almost a sure pre~emptive strike tactic.

Why, though?

Kat

I wonder why they had it sealed in the first place.

[Cardinal]

Wasn't that warrant for her DNA July 07? Surely they know by now if her DNA was on that dropper. I'm sure they also tried to print the dropper. What I found interesting was the warrant said the person that gave her the medicine (I'm paraphrasing) mistakenly thought it would put her to sleep. Did they find out from the drug co. that it wouldn't have? If so then we are back full circle to how did she stay clean.

Lots of full circles tonight, eh?

I don't imagine we know everything LE knows. But I don't see the language you're talking about in the SW. I do see the statement that Pancof PD is "...noteworthy because of it's possible sleep inducing side effects."

Did I miss the language you're seeing?

[Silsbee]

Hi, Sils. I don't think it was planned, either. Too messy. But that doesn't negate a motive, does it?

If the murder happened in a moment of fear or rage - I guess technically that is a motive. Since I'm not convinced it was planned I don't think the obvious motives apply. Maybe when all of the evidence is out that will change.

Sils

[Kat4Eagles]

What was supposed to happen?


Depends on what theory you have.

Robbery gone bad, with Michelle threatening to call police.

Michelle refusing to part with something they wanted.

Or, fighting with someone she knew and not knowing
how angry they were with at her.

I always thought something was said or done that could not be taken
back, and that sealed her death.

And, we do know she struggled.
:(
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

So THAT's why you weren't around!

C'mon Kat, you are as vested in this as the rest of us. Despite the differences, you want to see this through.

Hopefully, there will be a trial before too much more time passes, and we can all know that Michelle has finally received justice. No matter what form it takes.

Oh, I know it.
I always said I would be here to see it through.
But, it has not been an easy case, look at the Caylee case,
things happen so fast, you can't keep up, but, reading that
Board is impossible.

Kat

[Silsbee]

I think we have. LOL

I really think they were pulling out all of the stops to look at everything they could. That's a good thing.

But they apparently didn't find anything useful from either SW. Which is unfortunate. Because, differences in suspects aside, I have long thought there might have been an accomplice.

I don't think our suspects are all that different. I hope they did look hard at everything. And I hope they did not get stuck in tunnel vision on this case. I say that because on the surface there is a lot to suggest that Jason did this and yet I keep coming back to the fact that they can't take that "evidence" and give it to a DA to present to 12 objective jurors and make their case that Jason killed his pregnant wife. Is there evidence that does not add up that they keep avoiding because it does not point to Jason?

Sils

[Silsbee]

If they had evidence that pointed to someone else besides Jason, we would see SWs directed towards others. There is a reason (probably many) other than what we have seen that leads the investigator to declare that he believes that Jason killed his wife and unborn child, IMO.

If they have unknown DNA how would they know who to investigate?

Sils

[Lindsey]

I don't think our suspects are all that different. I hope they did look hard at everything. And I hope they did not get stuck in tunnel vision on this case. I say that because on the surface there is a lot to suggest that Jason did this and yet I keep coming back to the fact that they can't take that "evidence" and give it to a DA to present to 12 objective jurors and make their case that Jason killed his pregnant wife.

Is there evidence that does not add up that they keep avoiding because it does not point to Jason?

Sils

emphasis mine

Hey Sils,

The evidence that would have to be revealed to explain why Jason hasn't been arrested yet, maybe? Oh yeah, and they can't talk about that evidence either. (Paraphrasing here)

Makes me curious for sure.

[lonetraveler]

Dropped in again tonight and noticed that the handbag was mentioned, as well as keys. I tried to review the links to renew my memory and found most of them have disappeared. Don't know what happened to them. Anyway, on link #43 dated January 5, 2007, there is a list of items inventoried from the Ford Bronco: that list includes a ladies wallet with keys attached. Also two cell phones. Other things as well, but you can check it out if you want. I just happen to notice the wallet with keys attached. Thought it a bit strange since reading the posts tonight.

[Barbara2]

If they have unknown DNA how would they know who to investigate?

Sils

They might not but they would not continue to dog the husband. It's just been my experience with these cases that when it's a stranger murder, the stranger is found fairly quickly. The recent case in Dayton is a pretty good example. IMO.

[mysterybuff]

Depends on what theory you have.

Robbery gone bad, with Michelle threatening to call police.

Michelle refusing to part with something they wanted.

Or, fighting with someone she knew and not knowing
how angry they were with at her.

I always thought something was said or done that could not be taken
back, and that sealed her death.

And, we do know she struggled.
:(
Kat

Except for the "robbery gone bad," i believe all of your other theories are possible. But, imo, these all point to Jason. As far as her struggling, i think most people would struggle to save their life. uni

[achristie]

Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO
Kat

Good points. This is what I agree with:
MY was done with them and fought for her life.
Completely disagree with everything else you surmise.

MOO Aggie

[achristie]

Even 2 different sizes of shoe prints?

I have always thought that something escalated in that house that nite/am that got to the point of no turning back.
SNIPPED

It could almost be like something where Michelle had won before, but this time, she not only was not going to win,
but she was going to pay for it....

JMO
Kat

This is so on the money. I think her husband made her pay, but good.

MOO Aggie

[Lindsey]

Dropped in again tonight and noticed that the handbag was mentioned, as well as keys. I tried to review the links to renew my memory and found most of them have disappeared. Don't know what happened to them. Anyway, on link #43 dated January 5, 2007, there is a list of items inventoried from the Ford Bronco: that list includes a ladies wallet with keys attached. Also two cell phones. Other things as well, but you can check it out if you want. I just happen to notice the wallet with keys attached. Thought it a bit strange since reading the posts tonight.

I believe the wallet w/keys attached found in Jason's vehicle belonged to his mother or his sister. They rode back to Raleigh together that night.

[Barbara2]

I believe the wallet w/keys attached found in Jason's vehicle belonged to his mother or his sister. They rode back to Raleigh together that night.

Now that you've posted that, that's the way I remember it as well.

[jerry50]

If they have unknown DNA how would they know who to investigate?

Sils

There is a national data base that they would have run the DNA through to get a hit. LE would get a list of Michelle's family, friends and acquaintances and request their DNA to compare.

If there was foreign DNA then I don't think Det Spivey would have given an affidavit that JY was the sole killer rather he would have stated that he felt JY was one of two killers in the house that night.

[kingbuff]

I wonder why they had it sealed in the first place.

I think you are asking about the July 25 SW dealing with the keys and medicine? It was never sealed. Or least, no record of it's being sealed. The policemen seem to have their own methods of doing things. A better question might be: why was it not returned and filed promptly? Answer: clueless. Well, maybe because it was aimed at Meredith, not Jason.

[Tacori]

Dropped in again tonight and noticed that the handbag was mentioned, as well as keys. I tried to review the links to renew my memory and found most of them have disappeared. Don't know what happened to them. Anyway, on link #43 dated January 5, 2007, there is a list of items inventoried from the Ford Bronco: that list includes a ladies wallet with keys attached. Also two cell phones. Other things as well, but you can check it out if you want. I just happen to notice the wallet with keys attached. Thought it a bit strange since reading the posts tonight.

The 'purse' was mentioned in early SW's.

http://www.newsobserver.com/content/news/story_graphics/20061207_youngWarrant.pdf

[Silsbee]

They might not but they would not continue to dog the husband. It's just been my experience with these cases that when it's a stranger murder, the stranger is found fairly quickly. The recent case in Dayton is a pretty good example. IMO.

Wouldn't they if they thought the unknown DNA belongs to the husband's accomplice?

Sils

[jerry50]

Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO
Kat

Kat, do you have any sisters? In a fight, girls and women go for the hair first and if Michelle was in the fight of her life with a woman there would be hair all over that room--from both women.

There was only one other person in the room that night and that is the one person who has not talked, had a million dollar life insurance policy on her, had more than one romantic relationship and conveniently left a piece of paper on his printer which was his excuse to get someone to find the body. Did I mention that he didn't pay for his wife's funeral or headstone? Or that he called his mistress that he had a sexual relationship with while his pregnant wife was on the floor of their bedroom bludgeoned and covered with blood?

[Tacori]

But, at some point her socks were wet or soaked from the pool of blood surrounding Michelle, and she did know that Michelle had wounds.

Now , when exactly did she find that out?

And, that brings me back to the word "Remember" on the tape, when asked by MF what happened.

Kat

Tell me more about the socks.

[Silsbee]

There is a national data base that they would have run the DNA through to get a hit. LE would get a list of Michelle's family, friends and acquaintances and request their DNA to compare.

If there was foreign DNA then I don't think Det Spivey would have given an affidavit that JY was the sole killer rather he would have stated that he felt JY was one of two killers in the house that night.

And they don't always get a hit. How does LE know when to stop collecting DNA from acquaintances? Are they going to test everyone he came into contact with? Collecting and testing DNA is costly. I don't think they would test "everybody".

His affidavit does not state he believes Jason was the sole killer of Michelle. If he believes Jason had an accomplice it was not necessary for him to put that info in his affidavit.

Sils

[alter ego]

Linda didn't file under GS 50 - that's for custody in cases of divorce.

She filed under GS 50A:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungCustody.pdf (page 4)

"Pursuant to N.C. Gen. Stat., Section 50A-201...."

GS 50A-201 isn't county-specific:

http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_50A/GS_50A-201.pdf

I imagine Linda filed in Wake County because Meredith lives there and their attorneys practice there.


ETA: And Judge Sasser is there.
Ah, thank you for clarifying!

[alter ego]

They might not but they would not continue to dog the husband. It's just been my experience with these cases that when it's a stranger murder, the stranger is found fairly quickly. The recent case in Dayton is a pretty good example. IMO.
Actually when it's a stranger murder, the stranger is harder to find because it's difficult to find a link between victim and perp. Jenna Neilson and Beth-Ellen Vinson come to mind. When the perp is known to the victim, LE knows who to look at as a possible perp, but when the perp is unknown to the victim, LE has no way of knowing who to look at it.

[alter ego]

Kat, do you have any sisters? In a fight, girls and women go for the hair first and if Michelle was in the fight of her life with a woman there would be hair all over that room--from both women.

There was only one other person in the room that night and that is the one person who has not talked, had a million dollar life insurance policy on her, had more than one romantic relationship and conveniently left a piece of paper on his printer which was his excuse to get someone to find the body. Did I mention that he didn't pay for his wife's funeral or headstone? Or that he called his mistress that he had a sexual relationship with while his pregnant wife was on the floor of their bedroom bludgeoned and covered with blood?
Not all women pull hair when they fight.

None of the behaviors you listed prove murder.

[Lindsey]

Kat, do you have any sisters? In a fight, girls and women go for the hair first and if Michelle was in the fight of her life with a woman there would be hair all over that room--from both women.

There was only one other person in the room that night and that is the one person who has not talked, had a million dollar life insurance policy on her, had more than one romantic relationship and conveniently left a piece of paper on his printer which was his excuse to get someone to find the body. Did I mention that he didn't pay for his wife's funeral or headstone? Or that he called his mistress that he had a sexual relationship with while his pregnant wife was on the floor of their bedroom bludgeoned and covered with blood?

I'm not Kat but I'd like to address this. I have sisters but I've never fought with any of them and I've never known them to fight with each other. I also have daughters who have never fought with each other. But I believe you are wrong about women always going for the hair. Maybe you just watch too much TV? :laugh:

Of course, we don't know how much hair was in the room and we don't even know who the one hair belonged to that was stuck in dried blood on Michelle's hand.

As for your last paragraph, it sounds like you have tried, convicted, and sentenced Jason for this crime and you don't even want to discuss it any further. Forgive me if I'm reading you wrong.

All JMO

[Lindsey]

Not all women pull hair when they fight.

None of the behaviors you listed prove murder.

Hey AE

You said it much better than I and used fewer words to do it. Thanks

Maybe tomorrow will bring news of some kind.

Goodnight

[alter ego]

Hey AE

You said it much better than I and used fewer words to do it. Thanks

Maybe tomorrow will bring news of some kind.

Goodnight
Hopefully this case will get solved soon and we can all get some answers!

Nite! :seeya:

[jerry50]

I'm not Kat but I'd like to address this. I have sisters but I've never fought with any of them and I've never known them to fight with each other. I also have daughters who have never fought with each other. But I believe you are wrong about women always going for the hair. Maybe you just watch too much TV? :laugh:

Of course, we don't know how much hair was in the room and we don't even know who the one hair belonged to that was stuck in dried blood on Michelle's hand.

As for your last paragraph, it sounds like you have tried, convicted, and sentenced Jason for this crime and you don't even want to discuss it any further. Forgive me if I'm reading you wrong.

All JMO

Michelle was fighting for her life. Long hair would be a logical thing to grab.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO
Kat

You mean something along the line of.....

VICTIM - I not going to stand for you having an affair with my sorority sister. I'm taking our daughter and moving back to NY and you will never see her again.

SLAYER - Now wait. I'll come back home and we can talk about this.

(A couple of hours later) SLAYER - Oops!!!

[BSNBREVARDNC]

So are you thinking someone called or the GA friend told her that night about the affair? She surely didn't know about it before he left or she wouldn't have prepared dinner and sat down with him to eat. I know my wife wouldn't.

Maybe she saw an e-mail, a phone bill, got a call from MM, etc. But this could be what set everything else in motion. Plus, it would fit with KB's hint about there not being a motive. JY returned home to deal with the discovery of his affair and MY's reaction. Thing got out of hand. There were threats about divorce, leaving NC, child support, not seeing CY ever again, or the like and JY lost it.

Sudden stress, anger, and panic. Like I said, maybe this is why KB is so insistent that there was not a motive. It was not a planned murder but a sudden impulse when JY was faced with the discovery of the affair and the possible ramifications.

I'm putting this out as a theory only. Only JY and MY would know for sure.

[jerry50]

Maybe she saw an e-mail, a phone bill, got a call from MM, etc. But this could be what set everything else in motion. Plus, it would fit with KB's hint about there not being a motive. JY returned home to deal with the discovery of his affair and MY's reaction. Thing got out of hand. There were threats about divorce, leaving NC, child support, not seeing CY ever again, or the like and JY lost it.

Sudden stress, anger, and panic. Like I said, maybe this is why KB is so insistent that there was not a motive. It was not a planned murder but a sudden impulse when JY was faced with the discovery of the affair and the possible ramifications.

I'm putting this out as a theory only. Only JY and MY would know for sure.

This was my initial thoughts for a long time because it is so hard to imagine a man coming home with the full intent of murdering his pregnant wife while their daughter was in another room.
But we had credible info that everything was fine according to GA when JY left altho she thought it odd that he kept repeating where he would be staying that night.
If the intent was just to go back and talk or argue with Michelle then he would have had his cell phone with him and the pings would have tracked him back to his house. There also would probably be a receipt for gas because he wasn't thinking straight after the bludgeoning. The lack of expected evidence returning home makes me believe it was premed. And I will never be able to get past the printout. A man who is screwing around on his wife would not give a rat's behind of what anyone thought of a gift he was giving her. The fact he showed it to GA (credible inside info) doesn't leave much room to me for doubt that it was premed.

[5swab5]

Because it was either an argument or someone trying to reason with Michelle, and she was either so done with them, and not about to let them have what they wanted .

It could be someone she knew or knew only because of someone else.

The entire nite/am went terribly wrong, and I think there was more than one person there, and there was a conflict between them of whether Michelle should live.

I believe the only reason she died was they were scared and so they could be free.
It has worked so far.


A HUGE JMO
Kat

More likely the conversation went something like this:

MY: I have had it with your philandering ways, putting me and my feelings last in every situation and your pitiful attempts at contributing to this household. I am better off without you, I am done! I will be contacting an Attorney, I will be filing for divorce, custody, alimony, the house and child support. Get your stuff out of here and get ready for some real responsibilities for a change. The free ride is OVER!

Jason:

Over your dead body.

MOO

[Kat4Eagles]

Tell me more about the socks.


That they were supposedly found in the bath room on the floor.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, do you have any sisters? In a fight, girls and women go for the hair first and if Michelle was in the fight of her life with a woman there would be hair all over that room--from both women.

There was only one other person in the room that night and that is the one person who has not talked, had a million dollar life insurance policy on her, had more than one romantic relationship and conveniently left a piece of paper on his printer which was his excuse to get someone to find the body. Did I mention that he didn't pay for his wife's funeral or headstone? Or that he called his mistress that he had a sexual relationship with while his pregnant wife was on the floor of their bedroom bludgeoned and covered with blood?



Yep, I have one sister, married to a Giants fan.
Ultimate Betrayal to our family.
Makes for rough holidays. :lol:

Michelle did have a hair stuck on her hand when she was found.
And, both she and MF had long hair,but, I don't know if there was
a lot or any other hair found in the room.

Kat

[alter ego]

I agree, but all of that evidence seems to point to Jason. That makes it complicated because certain evidence from the husband would be expected to be in the house since he lived there. I would think they would have found a significant amount of foreign or stranger evidence if your scenario were plausible.We don't know for a fact that they didn't.

But we do know that CCBI didn't even bother to test the bedroom furniture for prints or DNA until Feb of last year.

[Kat4Eagles]

More likely the conversation went something like this:

MY: I have had it with your philandering ways, putting me and my feelings last in every situation and your pitiful attempts at contributing to this household. I am better off without you, I am done! I will be contacting an Attorney, I will be filing for divorce, custody, alimony, the house and child support. Get your stuff out of here and get ready for some real responsibilities for a change. The free ride is OVER!

Jason:

Over your dead body.

MOO


I would think if Jason was so in love with MM, he would want a divorce.
Maybe he even asked for one, for all we know.
This would turn things around, for sure.
:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

We don't know for a fact that they didn't.

But we do know that CCBI didn't even bother to test the bedroom furniture for prints or DNA until Feb of last year.


Hi A/E.:)

See, it is stuff like that ,that is just unbelievable.

Kat

[alter ego]

Hi A/E.:)

See, it is stuff like that ,that is just unbelievable.

KatWhat's even move unbelievable is that the sloppiness of the CCBI 'investigation' isn't attributed to the unsolved state of this case but Jason's silence is.

:blink:

[alter ego]

I am lost again. Where was it repeated where he would be staying? I thought the story that was told he pulled off at a motel and called MY and said he was tired of driving and this is where he was.
I thought he had reservations at that hotel for that night.

[Kat4Eagles]

There was a friend of the family that used to post here. He at one time was showing pictures of the socks to some on the forum. I didn't personally see them but the socks were talked about for a good while. I think an insurance adjuster was susposed to have been the one that took the photos. MOO

So the socks were left at the scene after it was cleared.
I remember posts asking why they were not taken for testing.

Also, Card, on the 911 call, when MF is asking C what happened and who was there, does C use the word "remember".

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I thought he had reservations at that hotel for that night.


I am sure the Hampton Inn had vacancies, but I am not exactly sure how it went down, but this is the first time that I heard that Jason kept mentioning where he would be staying at, repeatedly.

:shrug:

Kat

[jerry50]

I am sure the Hampton Inn had vacancies, but I am not exactly sure how it went down, but this is the first time that I heard that Jason kept mentioning where he would be staying at, repeatedly.

:shrug:

Kat

This was from an inside source so take it for whatever you want. She thought it was odd that he would keep mentioning where he was staying.

And I believe you are right that he had reservations. That was talked about way back in the beginning.

[annalyzer]

I'm not Kat but I'd like to address this. I have sisters but I've never fought with any of them and I've never known them to fight with each other. I also have daughters who have never fought with each other. But I believe you are wrong about women always going for the hair. Maybe you just watch too much TV? :laugh:

Of course, we don't know how much hair was in the room and we don't even know who the one hair belonged to that was stuck in dried blood on Michelle's hand.

As for your last paragraph, it sounds like you have tried, convicted, and sentenced Jason for this crime and you don't even want to discuss it any further. Forgive me if I'm reading you wrong.

All JMO

Also Meredith would have had plenty of time to gather any hair that was pulled out, if any. And she could've missed a few including the one stuck on Michelle's hand. But I don't believe Meredith is the one that killed Michelle.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Also Meredith would have had plenty of time to gather any hair that was pulled out, if any. And she could've missed a few including the one stuck on Michelle's hand. But I don't believe Meredith is the one that killed Michelle.

I don't know if it's a natural reaction or not, but when I hit my head I put my hand to the spot that was hit. Could the hair have been Michelle's own hair?

[annalyzer]

I don't know if it's a natural reaction or not, but when I hit my head I put my hand to the spot that was hit. Could the hair have been Michelle's own hair?

It could even be Cassidy's hair. The wet blood would have attracted hair, etc. from the carpet or bed.

[Kat4Eagles]

It could even be Cassidy's hair. The wet blood would have attracted hair, etc. from the carpet or bed.

Hi Anna.:)

Could have been a hair from Mr. G, or C's doll or
Jason , C, or Michelle herself.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I don't know if it's a natural reaction or not, but when I hit my head I put my hand to the spot that was hit. Could the hair have been Michelle's own hair?


Oops, I should have read this first.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

This was from an inside source so take it for whatever you want. She thought it was odd that he would keep mentioning where he was staying.

And I believe you are right that he had reservations. That was talked about way back in the beginning.


I think Jason picked out a hotel close to the half way mark from home and his meeting.
I know it was posted he left later than he was supposed to.
But, you are right, we get to take things for what they are.

So, what is next?
Response to the custody suit?
I think someone posted Jan 17th, but that is a Saturday.

Kat

[achristie]

There was a friend of the family that used to post here. He at one time was showing pictures of the socks to some on the forum. I didn't personally see them but the socks were talked about for a good while. I think an insurance adjuster was susposed to have been the one that took the photos. MOO

Wow. Do you know who those other posters were? I would love to have seen them.

[Lindsey]

It could even be Cassidy's hair. The wet blood would have attracted hair, etc. from the carpet or bed.

Hey Anna

I've always been curious about that hair. The AR just said 'a hair', no idea of length, color, texture etc. If it was Cassidy's or Jason's it would be much shorter than if it was Michelle's own hair or Meredith's hair. It might have been hard to tell the color if it was stuck in dry blood but of course Jason's and Cassidy's hair colors are different than Michelle's and Meredith's. I think the two sisters had the same color hair? It would probably be hard to tell which one of them the hair belonged to since the maternal (I can't spell that other word - lol) DNA would be so much alike. I would think it'd be much easier to identify if it belonged to Mr. G

I suppose the hair will remain a mystery until trial but it would be interesting to know.

IMO

[Kat4Eagles]

What's even move unbelievable is that the sloppiness of the CCBI 'investigation' isn't attributed to the unsolved state of this case but Jason's silence is.

:blink:

Plus if you add the uncollected socks......and I know it was just a rumor here, but someone posted that even the sheets were left there .

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

Plus if you add the uncollected socks......and I know it was just a rumor here, but someone posted that even the sheets were left there .

Kat

I honestly don't believe either of those things were left behind. I know LE made mistakes but I find those allegations to be ludicrous. We have to remember that CSIs were on the scene and one of them would have bagged all evidence with blood on it. There may well have been a sheet left on the bed or a pair of Cassidy's socks on the floor somewhere that didn't have blood on them. Those things are not like a shard or even a whole tooth being overlooked or failing to keep furniture to fingerprint, imo.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

What's even move unbelievable is that the sloppiness of the CCBI 'investigation' isn't attributed to the unsolved state of this case but Jason's silence is.

:blink:

Who exactly is the CCBI and who do they work for? I know what the SBI is, but what about the CCBI? This is the first case where I've seen them mentioned. I've seen their web site but it doesn't tell a whole lot about their training etc. Are they real cops or just some sort of techs?

[Hey Paula]

Hey Anna

I've always been curious about that hair. The AR just said 'a hair', no idea of length, color, texture etc. If it was Cassidy's or Jason's it would be much shorter than if it was Michelle's own hair or Meredith's hair. It might have been hard to tell the color if it was stuck in dry blood but of course Jason's and Cassidy's hair colors are different than Michelle's and Meredith's. I think the two sisters had the same color hair? It would probably be hard to tell which one of them the hair belonged to since the maternal (I can't spell that other word - lol) DNA would be so much alike. I would think it'd be much easier to identify if it belonged to Mr. G

I suppose the hair will remain a mystery until trial but it would be interesting to know.

IMO

That hair might not even be connected or related to the crime itself. IIRC, the hair was stuck to the underside of Michelle's finger. This could have occurred when a bleeding Michelle fell to the floor, if she landed in a spot where a strand of hair was already on the floor.

IMO

[Silsbee]

I honestly don't believe either of those things were left behind. I know LE made mistakes but I find those allegations to be ludicrous. We have to remember that CSIs were on the scene and one of them would have bagged all evidence with blood on it. There may well have been a sheet left on the bed or a pair of Cassidy's socks on the floor somewhere that didn't have blood on them. Those things are not like a shard or even a whole tooth being overlooked or failing to keep furniture to fingerprint, imo.

(emphasis mine)

What if it can be proven those items were left behind? If they were left it could easily be proven by the Young's with pictures or possession of the items.

Let's say for argument's sake they did leave those bloody items behind. What do you make of that?

Sils

[Lindsey]

That hair might not even be connected or related to the crime itself. IIRC, the hair was stuck to the underside of Michelle's finger. This could have occurred when a bleeding Michelle fell to the floor, if she landed in a spot where a strand of hair was already on the floor.

IMO

Goes without saying it might not even be connected to the crime but it was in the AR and I've always wondered about it. Don't you?

I don't believe it was stuck to the underside of Michelle's finger, unless you have some inside info? I recall the AR stating it was on her hand but didn't say where. I have seen it posted countless times the hair was IN her hand but that's not what the AR said. ON not IN.

[Cardinal]

So the socks were left at the scene after it was cleared.
I remember posts asking why they were not taken for testing.

Also, Card, on the 911 call, when MF is asking C what happened and who was there, does C use the word "remember".

Kat

Thanks, Kat. Can you understand what Cassidy is saying before or after that?

[Cardinal]

I know they found and took a reservation for Hampton Inn for 9/5-9/8 2007 but I don't recall any reservation for Nov. I can't locate the warrant for JY's suv. I looked for it yesterday when someone posted that when LE took over possession of the vehicle there was no warrant. I couldn't find the warrant. I had it on favs but it has been moved.

Here are the warrants listed now

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1085235/

Confused, WRAL never linked the SW for Jason's SUV - that one warrant was linked by the local ABC affiliate:

http://abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/pdf/youngsearchwarrant2.pdf

[Nellikat]

I'm jumping in here at the end because I don't have time to read back. I never read anything anywhere about Michelle's purse (media or warrants etc.) except here on this forum. It was stated by a poster that Michelle's purse was in the kitchen on the floor. I remember having a lively discussion with one of the posters about how I would be very surprised if Michelle normally kept her purse on the floor with a 2 year old in the house. Most women have things in her purse that a small child shouldn't have access to. I believe Michelle was a responsible mother and would have kept her purse up out of Cassidy's reach.


IMO

The SW link below lists a cell phone found in "a purse in the kitchen" under description of property to be seized. It doesn't say it's Michelle's, but as I recall that is when the discussions about her purse in the kitchen started.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085721/c_-_warrant.swf

jmo

[Leanne Weich]

(emphasis mine)

What if it can be proven those items were left behind? If they were left it could easily be proven by the Young's with pictures or possession of the items.

Let's say for argument's sake they did leave those bloody items behind. What do you make of that?

Sils

If they did leave those items behind I'd say each CSI who worked in the home on the last day should be fired. I honestly don't think even the most inefficient CSI would leave bloody evidence behind. It's not like those items were so small they could be missed or that blood, like a fingerprint is not easily noticeable - unless there was no blood visible to the naked eye. I, however, highly doubt that the Youngs came into possession of those items and had luminol used to bring out any specks of blood.

[Lindsey]

The SW link below lists a cell phone found in "a purse in the kitchen" under description of property to be seized. It doesn't say it's Michelle's, but as I recall that is when the discussions about her purse in the kitchen started.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085721/c_-_warrant.swf

jmo

Thank you Nelli for refreshing my memory and providing that link. The SW does say a purse in the kitchen. Apparently the poster I remember having the discussion with added the part about it being on the floor which I found unlikely.

I know I did read that 2+ years ago because I especially remember the answering machine with messages pending and have always wondered who those calls were from.

Thanks again for the link.

[Silsbee]

If they did leave those items behind I'd say each CSI who worked in the home on the last day should be fired. I honestly don't think even the most inefficient CSI would leave bloody evidence behind. It's not like those items were so small they could be missed or that blood, like a fingerprint is not easily noticeable - unless there was no blood visible to the naked eye. I, however, highly doubt that the Youngs came into possession of those items and had luminol used to bring out any specks of blood.

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard this info. I find it incredible that they would leave that kind of evidence behind (not saying they did). I can not think of any reasonable explanation as to why those items would not have been brought in for testing etc. If the rumors are true it was not a small amount of blood - it was quite a lot and quite obvious the sheets/socks were bloody. If the Young's do have pictures of this evidence as has been suggested it will not look good if this case goes to trial.

Sils

[Kat4Eagles]

That hair might not even be connected or related to the crime itself. IIRC, the hair was stuck to the underside of Michelle's finger. This could have occurred when a bleeding Michelle fell to the floor, if she landed in a spot where a strand of hair was already on the floor.

IMO


I have never heard that, the autopsy report says a hair was stuck on her hand.

Is there a link to the hair being on the underside of her finger?

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Thanks, Kat. Can you understand what Cassidy is saying before or after that?


Evening Card, Lin, Sils, everyone.

Some of it is really hard to understand, but it is clear, to me, that the child seems not to be in any duress.

She seems preoccupied with wanting to be cleaned up, or to clean something up.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard this info. I find it incredible that they would leave that kind of evidence behind (not saying they did). I can not think of any reasonable explanation as to why those items would not have been brought in for testing etc. If the rumors are true it was not a small amount of blood - it was quite a lot and quite obvious the sheets/socks were bloody. If the Young's do have pictures of this evidence as has been suggested it will not look good if this case goes to trial.

Sils

I agree, and I can't imagine how this can be explained.
I often think of the Youngs and hope they got through the holidays with all that is going on.
It must be very hard for them.
I hope they don't lose C...
Again, there is no easy solution to any of this.

:(

Kat

[Lindsey]

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard this info. I find it incredible that they would leave that kind of evidence behind (not saying they did). I can not think of any reasonable explanation as to why those items would not have been brought in for testing etc. If the rumors are true it was not a small amount of blood - it was quite a lot and quite obvious the sheets/socks were bloody. If the Young's do have pictures of this evidence as has been suggested it will not look good if this case goes to trial.

Sils

I agree there is no excuse especially when they were there for 13 days! I have never before heard of taking 13 days on any crime scene in any case. I know the house was big but not that big. No excuse at all, IMO.

[Lindsey]

I have never heard that, the autopsy report says a hair was stuck on her hand.

Is there a link to the hair being on the underside of her finger?

Kat

Hey Kat

I don't think there is a link to the hair being on the underside of her finger. I think the AR is all we have to go by unless someone has inside info and I would wonder how that could be.

[Kat4Eagles]

If Jason is required to take a psych exam before the custody hearing, does it have to be by one that the court appoints?

Could he go to a private one of his own choice?

And, who gets to find out the results?

Also, and I know this is not happening here, but what about a lie detector test?

Does the court ever order anyone to take one, I remember reading other cases, that the accused could take one by a private firm.

Do you think that has happened here, and this has given Jason and his attorney the confidence both seem to portray?

For instance Jason's confidence via emails with Kim.

TIA to both questions.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Hey Kat

I don't think there is a link to the hair being on the underside of her finger. I think the AR is all we have to go by unless someone has inside info and I would wonder how that could be.


Hi Lin!!,

Thank you...
I didn't think so.....

:)

Kat

[Lindsey]

If Jason is required to take a psych exam before the custody hearing, does it have to be by one that the court appoints?

Could he go to a private one of his own choice?

And, who gets to find out the results?

Also, and I know this is not happening here, but what about a lie detector test?

Does the court ever order anyone to take one, I remember reading other cases, that the accused could take one by a private firm.

Do you think that has happened here, and this has given Jason and his attorney the confidence both seem to portray?

For instance Jason's confidence via emails with Kim.

TIA to both questions.

Kat

I don't even have a clue on the psych exam.

I don't think the court can order anyone to take a polygraph since they aren't admissible anyways, regardless of the results.


JMO

[JHP]

If Jason is required to take a psych exam before the custody hearing, does it have to be by one that the court appoints?

Could he go to a private one of his own choice?

And, who gets to find out the results?

Also, and I know this is not happening here, but what about a lie detector test?

Does the court ever order anyone to take one, I remember reading other cases, that the accused could take one by a private firm.

Do you think that has happened here, and this has given Jason and his attorney the confidence both seem to portray?

For instance Jason's confidence via emails with Kim.

TIA to both questions.

Kat

Kat, I'm not sure what confidence you're talking about. If they were truly confident they would have answered the Slayer charge.

Do you think Jason still has the same Attorney? Or that he even has one at all?

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, I'm not sure what confidence you're talking about. If they were truly confident they would have answered the Slayer charge.

Do you think Jason still has the same Attorney? Or that he even has one at all?


Jason seems very confident after all this time.
I am referring to the emails between him and his older sister.

The last I read, Roger was still his attorney, and although not issuing any comment, seems to be confident as well.

I have never read anything that says differently.

I am curious about the psych exam though...

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

I agree there is no excuse especially when they were there for 13 days! I have never before heard of taking 13 days on any crime scene in any case. I know the house was big but not that big. No excuse at all, IMO.

You know, I don't know that any of us really can imagine just how bad the scene was at the house that day until we think about that aspect Lindsey. It sure is unusual for a crime scene to take 13 days to be processed. I am beginning to think that there was no foreign DNA found and that because of mistakes made, Colin Willoughby is being overly cautious in trying to get more than is usually required before going before the GJ. He, CW, knows that the potential for an upset once Jason's attorney gets discovery is huge unless he has sufficient evidence to counter what appear to be many mistakes on LE's part.

[Cardinal]

Thanks Cardinal

The poster last night was correct. He or she said when LE took the car and other possessions they didn't have a search warrant. I looked it was not obtained until the next morning. Remember the big fuss because they took Mrs. Young's medicine and wouldn't give it back.

You're welcome, Confused. But I don't see anything in that SW to substantiate that LE took items from the vehicle before obtaining the warrant. It does clearly state, however, that the "...vehicle was being detained pursuant to a death investigation...." prior to obtaining the warrant.

"Detained" is different from "searched".

JMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Sorry Kat

I think Roger is getting paid big bucks and doing nothing. I guess that's easy when your client lives so far away. It not like he can be sitting on their office doorstep everyday asking about why his attorney is letting him get slammed in civil court and the media and not doing anything about it. Casey Anthony's attorney has at least been her advocate. You can't say the same for Rodger.

"Thanks for the check Jason. Now don't talk and call me back if you get arrested."

I wonder how much that cost?,

[Kat4Eagles]

Not just 13 days they had to make a return trip because they forgot to measure some tile in the bathroom. I think a lot of these things were left behind if they were left behind is because LE thought they had a slam dunk case and JY would be in jail in a few days. Then their theory started getting holes in it and here we are over 2 years later and who knows how much evidence has been over looked or destroyed.


And, they came back to take the deck planks too.

And, even later were looking for clothes and shoes that should have been seized from the start.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You know, I don't know that any of us really can imagine just how bad the scene was at the house that day until we think about that aspect Lindsey. It sure is unusual for a crime scene to take 13 days to be processed. I am beginning to think that there was no foreign DNA found and that because of mistakes made, Colin Willoughby is being overly cautious in trying to get more than is usually required before going before the GJ. He, CW, knows that the potential for an upset once Jason's attorney gets discovery is huge unless he has sufficient evidence to counter what appear to be many mistakes on LE's part.


But, again, if the scene was as bad as you say, and I am sure it was, why then did MF fail to notice sooner what she had walked into?

Why did it take minutes into the 911 phonecall before she had a revelation not to touch anything?
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry Kat

I think Roger is getting paid big bucks and doing nothing. I guess that's easy when your client lives so far away. It not like he can be sitting on their office doorstep everyday asking about why his attorney is letting him get slammed in civil court and the media and not doing anything about it. Casey Anthony's attorney has at least been her advocate. You can't say the same for Rodger.

"Thanks for the check Jason. Now don't talk and call me back if you get arrested."

I wonder how much that cost?,


In the email with Kim, it sounded like there had been a flat fee for his retainer.

I would think Jason would consult with him from time to time, especially where C was concerned, or if he had any questions.

They may have reached a mutual agreement to skip answering the WDS suit.....

But, my money is on Jason fighting heaven and earth to keep his daughter...

As, he should.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

http://www.wakegov.com/ccbi/default.htm

Thank you, Wyatt.
:)
Kat

[5swab5]

I don't get the concern about Cassidy's socks, or bloody sheets being left at the BirchLeaf house.

Since when did anyone get the idea that every single thing at a crime scene that has blood on it, is removed to the lab?

We know that they "cut out" sheetrock and carpet. Why not complain about them not removing every single inch of those too?

MOO

[JHP]

In the email with Kim, it sounded like there had been a flat fee for his retainer.

I would think Jason would consult with him from time to time, especially where C was concerned, or if he had any questions.

They may have reached a mutual agreement to skip answering the WDS suit.....

But, my money is on Jason fighting heaven and earth to keep his daughter...

As, he should.

Kat


Just wondering if your opinion of Jason will change if he doesn't fight for Cassidy?

[5swab5]

(snipped)

But, my money is on Jason fighting heaven and earth to keep his daughter...

As, he should.

Kat


Heaven and Earth, LOL

The very same father that won't lift a finger to find the murderer of his son, not to mention Cassidy's mother?

The very same father that wouldn't even arrange for the interment of his own son?

The very same father that wouldn't erect a headstone for his son?

The very same father that has been noticeably absent during lobbying for a Fetal Homicide Law in N.C.?

The very same father that would rather it be recorded for all of perpetuity...for Cassidy to see later, that he is a slayer, rather than defend himself in Court?

Nope, the only one that Jason will move an inch for, is Jason himself.

Heaven and Earth are safe.

MOO

[fiver]

With all due respect, the son had not been born so the "non actions" taken by the father are not revelant (for lack of a better word) to compare to those he may or may not take to retain custody of his daughter.

[annalyzer]

I don't get the concern about Cassidy's socks, or bloody sheets being left at the BirchLeaf house.

Since when did anyone get the idea that every single thing at a crime scene that has blood on it, is removed to the lab?

We know that they "cut out" sheetrock and carpet. Why not complain about them not removing every single inch of those too?

MOO

Also no rape kit done. Those sheets could've contained the murderers dna/sperm/saliva, etc.

[Leanne Weich]

But, again, if the scene was as bad as you say, and I am sure it was, why then did MF fail to notice sooner what she had walked into?

Why did it take minutes into the 911 phonecall before she had a revelation not to touch anything?
Kat

Not knowing someone personally, I am loathe to even hazard a guess about people's reaction's to trauma and shock. I have, in my life, found I've behaved most uncharacteristically when faced with a shocking situation concerning my family yet can be (and always am) a pillar of strength for other people in similar circumstances. Unlike you though, I can hear the horror in Meredith's voice during the 911 call. We all judge events by our own perception of things and you and I are never going to agree on that call as I believe Jason is guilty so am not looking at it with a jaundiced eye. You, on the other hand are desperate for Jason not to be guilty so see things from a totally different perspective, imo.

[jerry50]

Jason seems very confident after all this time.
I am referring to the emails between him and his older sister.

The last I read, Roger was still his attorney, and although not issuing any comment, seems to be confident as well.

I have never read anything that says differently.

I am curious about the psych exam though...

Kat

If JY sounds confident it may be because he thinks he is getting away with murder. If he were innocent why wouldn't he be saying "I know their focus has been on me but I wish that they would find the real killer."
The last I read the court was not sure that Roger was still his lawyer but sent the papers to him anyway.
His teacher friend stated months ago that JY did not have a lawyer because he did not need one.
The Roger Smith firm had no problem giving a statement regarding their representation of Nancy Cooper's family.

[VetoHero]

the custody hearing is surely going to reveal some thing...

[5swab5]

Also no rape kit done. Those sheets could've contained the murderers dna/sperm/saliva, etc.

There is no way to know anything about the supposed sheets, where they came from or IF they even exist.

ALL message board rumor, at this point.

MOO

[5swab5]

With all due respect, the son had not been born so the "non actions" taken by the father are not revelant (for lack of a better word) to compare to those he may or may not take to retain custody of his daughter.


With all due respect, a decent father would do the best for his offspring, whether they were 3 years old, 30 years old or in utero.

Jason has made concentrated efforts since Michelle's murder to do things that are in direct contrast to Cassidy's best interests.

Including, but not limited to:

Restricting visits with her maternal relatives,
returning presents sent by Cassidy's maternal relatives,
neglecting to take Cassidy to various celebrations of Michelle's life,
and using Cassidy for "babe bait" on the Internet.

Not to mention, having himself declared a slayer.

What a guy.

MOO

[Silsbee]

I don't get the concern about Cassidy's socks, or bloody sheets being left at the BirchLeaf house.

Since when did anyone get the idea that every single thing at a crime scene that has blood on it, is removed to the lab?

We know that they "cut out" sheetrock and carpet. Why not complain about them not removing every single inch of those too?

MOO

I think bloody sheets and socks are different from every inch of wall that is not covered in blood.

Since when did things covered in blood NOT get removed and tested in a lab? How do they know what evidence could be mixed in with those sheets and socks if they don't test them?

Sils

[Silsbee]

There is no way to know anything about the supposed sheets, where they came from or IF they even exist.

ALL message board rumor, at this point.

MOO

Yes but the discussion was about what it could mean to this case if it is true.

Sils

[kingbuff]

I don't get the concern about Cassidy's socks, or bloody sheets being left at the BirchLeaf house.

Since when did anyone get the idea that every single thing at a crime scene that has blood on it, is removed to the lab?

We know that they "cut out" sheetrock and carpet. Why not complain about them not removing every single inch of those too?

MOO

Absolutely right, roaring woman. Every single inch not needed. No complaint here.

But I hope you don't mind a little head scratching. According to early posts, not until Dec. 22 did the cops come back and ask the family if they would mind the cops removing some inches of the carpet and closet wall. Who could say no? The family consented. That's when the carpet and wall were removed....more than a month after the murder.

[kingbuff]

I think bloody sheets and socks are different from every inch of wall that is not covered in blood.

Since when did things covered in blood NOT get removed and tested in a lab? How do they know what evidence could be mixed in with those sheets and socks if they don't test them?

Sils

The socks, the sheets, the bathroom prints had red stuff on them, we've been told. Maybe catsup....or deck stain....or someone else's blood. At any rate, no line of custody for any items cops left behind, including the tooth and wild prints. Contaminated. Useless as evidence.

[Silsbee]

The socks, the sheets, the bathroom prints had red stuff on them, we've been told. Maybe catsup....or deck stain....or someone else's blood. At any rate, no line of custody for any items cops left behind, including the tooth and wild prints. Contaminated. Useless as evidence.


Wild prints?

Sils

[annalyzer]

There is no way to know anything about the supposed sheets, where they came from or IF they even exist.

ALL message board rumor, at this point.

MOO

Don't you think Michelle had sheets on her bed?

[kingbuff]

With all due respect, a decent father would do the best for his offspring, whether they were 3 years old, 30 years old or in utero.

Jason has made concentrated efforts since Michelle's murder to do things that are in direct contrast to Cassidy's best interests.

Including, but not limited to:

Restricting visits with her maternal relatives,
returning presents sent by Cassidy's maternal relatives,
neglecting to take Cassidy to various celebrations of Michelle's life,
and using Cassidy for "babe bait" on the Internet.

Not to mention, having himself declared a slayer.

What a guy.

MOO

Again....you fail to ask the basic question.....Why does this decent father think he is doing his best for his offspring by keeping her away from her maternal relatives? What does he know about the maternal relatives that you don't? Please spare us your vapid 'so Cassie won't talk' excuse.

[annalyzer]

Again....you fail to ask the basic question.....Why does this decent father think he is doing his best for his offspring by keeping her away from her maternal relatives? What does he know about the maternal relatives that you don't? Please spare us your vapid 'so Cassie won't talk' excuse.


I don't know but he'll have he chance to tell at the custody hearing.

[Nellikat]

Yep. Show and Tell time if he shows up.


Why wouldn't he show up?

[kingbuff]

Why wouldn't he show up?

Did you see/hear the Brad Cooper depo? Eight hours of that? I don't think so. I would beg for the waterboard before I submitted to that.

Did Cooper gain anything? A cell. After the cops learned everything Cooper could possibly offer for defense, they arrested him. Innocent or guilty, he lost everything.

Maybe there's another way.

[Cardinal]

Yep. Show and Tell time if he shows up.

You think he cares so little for Cassidy that there's an "if" involved?

[Nellikat]

Did you see/hear the Brad Cooper depo? Eight hours of that? I don't think so. I would beg for the waterboard before I submitted to that.

Did Cooper gain anything? A cell. After the cops learned everything Cooper could possibly offer for defense, they arrested him. Innocent or guilty, he lost everything.

Maybe there's another way.

Yes, I heard the Brad Cooper depo. Regarding Jason, I was curious why you stated "if he shows up". Thank you for your reply.

[vthom]

Unless she laid her keys on the car as she was leaving. Do we know when she put them there?

Maybe Meredith put her keys down on her way out, thinking she should get the car seat out of Michelle's car for C. And then was ushered out by LE. Just a thought. And she grabbed MY's keys in the kitchen before stepping out into the garage to get the seat. I know the keys aren't that important according to this site, but I don't think Meredith was involved in the murder and like someone has said on this site, JY would throw anyone under the bus to protect himself. And I guess some of us has turned to looking at Meredith because he got her involved by sending her to find Michelle. Sorry I'm behind on this thought/post, but just catching up from the holidays.

[Cardinal]

Maybe Meredith put her keys down on her way out, thinking she should get the car seat out of Michelle's car for C. And then was ushered out by LE. Just a thought.

Actually, that's a very good thought, vthom. I hope you'll post more of them. :)

[Cardinal]

You missed this? Maybe there's another way.

I didn't miss it. Are you going to elaborate, or only continue to pose the possibility?

[kingbuff]

Maybe Meredith put her keys down on her way out, thinking she should get the car seat out of Michelle's car for C. And then was ushered out by LE. Just a thought.

Definitely a possibility. So many explanations the keys become irrelevant. What is relevant is why Meredith lied about the keys.

[Barbara2]

Did you see/hear the Brad Cooper depo? Eight hours of that? I don't think so. I would beg for the waterboard before I submitted to that.

Did Cooper gain anything? A cell. After the cops learned everything Cooper could possibly offer for defense, they arrested him. Innocent or guilty, he lost everything.

Maybe there's another way.

Does this mean that you believe that Brad is innocent and is being unfairly arrested and held based on the deposition? Or maybe you believe he is guilty and he didn't get away with it as a result of the deposition, he convicted himself? This is not really an either/or question. You might have other possibilities that I am not considering.

So Jason might have to have others go to court and speak for him so he doesn't risk convicting himself?

[kingbuff]

I didn't miss it. Are you going to elaborate, or only continue to pose the possibility?

I certainly would not presume to guess at what the cops or lawyers might try. Both show up here occasionally. Ask them.

[Barbara2]

Definitely a possibility. So many explanations the keys become irrelevant. What is relevant is why Meredith lied about the keys.

What was the lie?

[Cardinal]

What was the lie?

My question, too.

[Cardinal]

I certainly would not presume to guess at what the cops or lawyers might try. Both show up here occasionally. Ask them.

I have no need to ask them - it wasn't my theory, it was yours.

If Jason Young has any sense at all, he will seek legal advice in this matter, and consider it very carefully.

JMO

[kingbuff]

What was the lie?

She threw her keys onto the kitchen counter. The cops were curious about that claim.

[Cardinal]

She threw her keys onto the kitchen counter. The cops were curious about that claim.

Okay - so, again, what was the lie?

[Barbara2]

She threw her keys onto the kitchen counter. The cops were curious about that claim.

Then put the cuffs on me because I forget where I put my keys all the time. I don't see that as a lie. Saying that you are just friends with a woman that you are actually having an affair with; that's a lie. It's not like he "forgot where he put his wife". Stretching that statement about the keys into a lie smacks of desperation, IMO.

[enigma™]

Definitely a possibility. So many explanations the keys become irrelevant. What is relevant is why Meredith lied about the keys.

Did she? I think not. I believe Meredith just grabbed the wrong set of keys as she was carrying Cassidy from the crime scene to await LE. Where is the lie?

[Cardinal]

Did she? I think not. I believe Meredith just grabbed the wrong set of keys as she was carrying Cassidy from the crime scene to await LE. Where is the lie?

There is no lie, IMO. There is only diversion from the previous discussion.

Will Jason respond/appear in the custody suit?

[enigma™]

I certainly would not presume to guess at what the cops or lawyers might try. Both show up here occasionally. Ask them.


Why you, yourself, proclaimed you were LE in an earlier post. What is up with that? When did you join the force?



What we cops call unidentified.

[enigma™]

There is no lie, IMO. There is only diversion from the previous discussion.

Will Jason respond/appear in the custody suit?

Reading between the lines/lies of the king of buff, Jason has no intention of appearing, refuting, or presenting himself in any court of law anytime soon. Best guess is, he will send his jesters to do his dirty work, if he sends anyone at all. I feel there will be no response, yet again, to this suit. That is really going to hurt Cassidy down the line, when she sees how little he valued her being a part of his life.

ETA: sorry to the poster named "Jester", you are excluded from the kings court.

[Cardinal]

Reading between the lines/lies of the king of buff, Jason has no intention of appearing, refuting, or presenting himself in any court of law anytime soon. Best guess is, he will send his jesters to do his dirty work, if he sends anyone at all. I feel there will be no response, yet again, to this suit. That is really going to hurt Cassidy down the line, when she sees how little he valued her being a part of his life.

That's my biggest concern, enigma. If Jason doesn't fight for custody of Cassidy, at some point in the not-too-distant future, she will come to understand that. And THAT is a blow that little girl should not have to endure, IMO.

[kingbuff]

Does this mean that you believe that Brad is innocent and is being unfairly arrested and held based on the deposition? Or maybe you believe he is guilty and he didn't get away with it as a result of the deposition, he convicted himself? This is not really an either/or question. You might have other possibilities that I am not considering.

So Jason might have to have others go to court and speak for him so he doesn't risk convicting himself?

Fairness and unfairness have nothing to do with murder. Catch the killer and put him away.

Spivey convinced Fisher to file the foolish civil actions in an attempt to make Jason talk. I resent him using Cassie as a pawn. Any parent should be filled with anger.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal there is an IF from all of us. I don't know if he will do you?

How can he NOT, Confused? She's his daughter, for heaven's sake. The only living remnant of Michelle. If Jason cares/cared at all for either of them, how can he not respond?

[enigma™]

Fairness and unfairness have nothing to do with murder. Catch the killer and put him away.

Spivey convinced Fisher to file the foolish civil actions in an attempt to make Jason talk. I resent him using Cassie as a pawn. Any parent should be filled with anger.


"Time" convinced Linda to make her filings, and there was nothing foolish in wanting the best for her motherless granddaughter. Had she not done it by the 2 year mark, she would have no recourse. Any way you spin it, it still comes down to Jason is not talking, and that speaks volumes. It will be loud and clear what his motivations are, if he does not show up for, or respond to, the custody suit.

[Cardinal]

Fairness and unfairness have nothing to do with murder. Catch the killer and put him away.

Spivey convinced Fisher to file the foolish civil actions in an attempt to make Jason talk. I resent him using Cassie as a pawn. Any parent should be filled with anger.

I think every parent on this board is filled with tremendous anger - that Cassidy's mother was brutally taken from her, that her maternal family has been callously kept from her. Which source of anger would you like to discuss?

[Barbara2]

Fairness and unfairness have nothing to do with murder. Catch the killer and put him away.

Spivey convinced Fisher to file the foolish civil actions in an attempt to make Jason talk. I resent him using Cassie as a pawn. Any parent should be filled with anger.

I would be filled with anger if I saw anything that indicated that you are correct. From my perspective, I can only think of what I would do if my daughter had been murdered and my grandchild who I am very close to was being kept from me and denied even the presents I sent. I wouldn't believe that my grandchild was being raised in a very loving environment under those circumstances and I would want to do the best for my grandchild. I wouldn't care what any investigator said. JMO

[Cardinal]

Well I've been described as a real jerk . But I wouldn't. I wouldn't play into their little game. Let them raise the kid if that is what they want. I still think he would get visitation rights.

Visitation rights???? You would give up your daughter and accept visitation rights, rather than fight to keep her?


ETA: If you have children, I hope they don't read that.

[achristie]

I certainly would not presume to guess at what the cops or lawyers might try. Both show up here occasionally. Ask them.

Have they shown up recently?

[Cardinal]

You and all your little friends make the same mistake. Jason has said nothing about 'just friends', yet you brand him a liar. What does that make you? A liar.

I haven't branded him a liar. I will, however, brand him a philandering egoist.

Just My Opinion

[enigma™]

You and all your little friends make the same mistake. Jason has said nothing about 'just friends', yet you brand him a liar. What does that make you? A liar.

Correct, Jason has said nothing. You and your "friends" have been the ones espousing the "just friends" version of the affair. So does this make you a liar? Gee, I sure hope not, because I truly just await your every little insight into Jason and his life, such as it is. I would hate to think all you have posted was a lie. That would make me - what is the word? - gullible? Not happening. :tonguewag:

[Barbara2]

You and all your little friends make the same mistake. Jason has said nothing about 'just friends', yet you brand him a liar. What does that make you? A liar.

Not I. It was you and your friends that claimed MM was "just a friend". I said from the very beginning that they were "romantically involved". I say, "If the brand fits, wear it."

[Cardinal]

My bets are on "no".

I'm afraid you may be right, Wyatt. Sadly, I must say.

[kingbuff]

Then put the cuffs on me because I forget where I put my keys all the time. I don't see that as a lie. Saying that you are just friends with a woman that you are actually having an affair with; that's a lie. It's not like he "forgot where he put his wife". Stretching that statement about the keys into a lie smacks of desperation, IMO.

You call Jason a liar. He has said nothing.

[enigma™]

My bets are on "no".


I concur. He is very limited in what he can do, due to his lack of cooperation or interest in the criminal investigation. He paid his attorney for 2 words, "say nothing", and that is his ongoing modus operandi.

[Hey Paula]

My bets are on "no".

I agree. I don't think JY will appear either.

[achristie]

I'm afraid you may be right, Wyatt. Sadly, I must say.

Is he implying that the Youngs plan to fight the Fishers for custody?
How does that work? JY stays at home and they fight the battle? Any lawyers here who could jump in with some guidance on this?

[enigma™]

You call Jason a liar. He has said nothing.

Please refer to my post, #519. I agree with you, Jason has said nothing.

[JHP]

You call Jason a liar. He has said nothing.

You are right he has said nothing, Will he continue to say nothing? You must have some sort of idea of what he's thinking.

[Barbara2]

You call Jason a liar. He has said nothing.

I know. Others have spoken for him. I don't know why others would want to make him look so bad. IMO

[Nellikat]

You call Jason a liar. He has said nothing.

Yes, he has said nothing. I don't call that a liar either. I call that a coward with something to hide. JMO.

[enigma™]

Is he implying that the Youngs plan to fight the Fishers for custody?
How does that work? JY stays at home and they fight the battle? Any lawyers here who could jump in with some guidance on this?

The "Youngs" such as they are, are not a conglomerate and have no say in this custody battle. This is the Fishers vs. Jason Lynn Young, pronounced "slayer". And he is not going to come forward to protect his parental rights. No one else has a say so.

[Cardinal]

Is he implying that the Youngs plan to fight the Fishers for custody?
How does that work? JY stays at home and they fight the battle? Any lawyers here who could jump in with some guidance on this?

I think the implication is that the Youngs, sans Jason, intend to respond. I'm not a lawyer, but in MVHO, that isn't going to cut it.

And that aside, that isn't going to help Cassidy when she's old enough to understand that her daddy didn't care enough to fight to keep her.

JMO

[JHP]

Is he implying that the Youngs plan to fight the Fishers for custody?
How does that work? JY stays at home and they fight the battle? Any lawyers here who could jump in with some guidance on this?

I believe Jason is the one who has to fight this battle.

[achristie]

I think the implication is that the Youngs, sans Jason, intend to respond. I'm not a lawyer, but in MVHO, that isn't going to cut it.

And that aside, that isn't going to help Cassidy when she's old enough to understand that her daddy didn't care enough to fight to keep her.

JMO


I have a feeling she's gonna be dealing with more than that about daddy. Very sad.

[Cardinal]

Men think different than women. Thats why I don't think JY cared if his wife got a divorce. He may if some of the things we have read are true even welcomed it.

I don't think gender has anything to do with parenting. My husband would go up against anyone and anything necessary to keep his children. And, no offense, but any man who wouldn't isn't a man, IMO.

[Cardinal]

I have a feeling she's gonna be dealing with more than that about daddy. Very sad.

Very said, indeed, Aggie. And suddenly I find myself very depressed and angry, so I'm going to call it a night.

Cassidy deserves better.

[Barbara2]

Men think different than women. Thats why I don't think JY cared if his wife got a divorce. He may if some of the things we have read are true even welcomed it.

Didn't Jason refer to Cassidy as "the center of my life" or something like that? Do you think he just said that to try and attract women?

[achristie]

Kingbuff, were the lawyers around in preparation for the custody suit? Would a different lawyer handle it? Someone local? Or would it be another lawyer in the same firm?

[Hey Paula]

I think the implication is that the Youngs, sans Jason, intend to respond. I'm not a lawyer, but in MVHO, that isn't going to cut it.

And that aside, that isn't going to help Cassidy when she's old enough to understand that her daddy didn't care enough to fight to keep her.

JMO

I think the Youngs, excluding JY, will likely respond perhaps claiming they are Cassidy's primary caregivers.

Can they file a motion, e.g., "Motion to Substitute Defendant"?

I agree with you that if JY doesn't personally fight to keep his daughter, this might be damaging to Cassidy when she is old enough to understand.

IMO

[enigma™]

Kingbuff, were the lawyers around in preparation for the custody suit? Would a different lawyer handle it? Someone local? Or would it be another lawyer in the same firm?

Didn't Cooper's (not Brad) family engage the same law firm to handle their custody suit? If that is true, enough said. Jason does not stand a chance of maintaining custody unless he takes the stand. No honorable judge will accept less than his presence and testimony as to why he is the only one "fit" enough to raise Cassidy. MUO

[jerry50]

Also no rape kit done. Those sheets could've contained the murderers dna/sperm/saliva, etc.


Even without a rape kit Michelle's clothes could be checked for "touch DNA" to see if someone had redressed her. A blacklight or whatever they use could also have been used on her clothes to check for saliva or seminal fluid.

Since the info on the sheets did not come from LE or an unbiased poster I do not put much credence in the alledged statement that LE left bloody evidence behind.

[jerry50]

I think the Youngs, excluding JY, will likely respond perhaps claiming they are Cassidy's primary caregivers.

Can they file a motion, e.g., "Motion to Substitute Defendant"?

I agree with you that if JY doesn't personally fight to keep his daughter, this might be damaging to Cassidy when she is old enough to understand.

IMO


I was looking procedures on child custody cases and it seems that the parties that are mentioned in the custody suit, Linda, Meredith and Jason have to be present. JY can bring witnesses but they are not in the same room as the proceedings. So, his mom will not be allowed to answer the suit for him.

[Lindsey]

I would be filled with anger if I saw anything that indicated that you are correct. From my perspective, I can only think of what I would do if my daughter had been murdered and my grandchild who I am very close to was being kept from me and denied even the presents I sent. I wouldn't believe that my grandchild was being raised in a very loving environment under those circumstances and I would want to do the best for my grandchild. I wouldn't care what any investigator said. JMO

I believe what you say Barbara but I don't believe you would wait 2 years to try to remove your grandchild from an environment that you felt was anything less than loving and nurturing.

JMO

[Barbara2]

I believe what you say Barbara but I don't believe you would wait 2 years to try to remove your grandchild from an environment that you felt was anything less than loving and nurturing.

JMO

You're right about that. I would not want to wait one day. But I might be made to be patient if I was told that I could well lose and diminish my chances for being successful at a future date. If that were the case, I would have to follow the advice of the professionals even if I didn't like or agree with that advice.

[Lindsey]

Didn't Jason refer to Cassidy as "the center of my life" or something like that? Do you think he just said that to try and attract women?

I've read many posts about Jason using Cassidy to try and attract women. Maybe that was his intention but if so that could backfire on him since most women want to be the center of her man's life, not 2nd place after his daughter, mother or anyone else. In fact, many women are turned off by a man raising a child or children alone.

I think it was a dumb thing for him to send those photos to a stranger. But it could have been that he really was saying, this is my life and if that's a problem for you don't bother to respond.

JMO

[achristie]

You're right about that. I would not want to wait one day. But I might be made to be patient if I was told that I could well lose and diminish my chances for being successful at a future date. If that were the case, I would have to follow the advice of the professionals even if I didn't like or agree with that advice.

My guess is the Fishers never dreamed the Youngs would not allow any contact or regular visitations with the child. It took them some time to read the handwriting on the wall. I'm sure they also never dreamed this would drag out for as long as it has.

MOO Aggie

[Hey Paula]

I was looking procedures on child custody cases and it seems that the parties that are mentioned in the custody suit, Linda, Meredith and Jason have to be present. JY can bring witnesses but they are not in the same room as the proceedings. So, his mom will not be allowed to answer the suit for him.

Thanks, Jerry!

I'm glad to hear that. IMO, this is the proper way it should be handled, and the one which is best for Cassidy.

[Barbara2]

I've read many posts about Jason using Cassidy to try and attract women. Maybe that was his intention but if so that could backfire on him since most women want to be the center of her man's life, not 2nd place after his daughter, mother or anyone else. In fact, many women are turned off by a man raising a child or children alone.

I think it was a dumb thing for him to send those photos to a stranger. But it could have been that he really was saying, this is my life and if that's a problem for you don't bother to respond.

JMO

I can agree that it was dumb for him to send the photos to a stranger but disagree with the rest on a personal level. I dated a man who was a divorced father with three children. They were 7, 4 and 1 when I started dating him. His relationship with his children and genuine love for them was a big attraction for me.

We've been married 32 years now. (The "children" are now 39, 36 and 33)

[Lindsey]

I can agree that it was dumb for him to send the photos to a stranger but disagree with the rest on a personal level. I dated a man who was a divorced father with three children. They were 7, 4 and 1 when I started dating him. His relationship with his children and genuine love for them was a big attraction for me.

We've been married 32 years now. (The "children" are now 39, 36 and 33)


I'm glad it worked out for you. That is a big responsibility to take on when a man is raising a child or children on his own. Even when it's just every other weekend and holidays, it can be a challenge.

I guess it was the references I've read where people referred to "chick bait" or somesuch that I pictured him looking for a woman of less than stellar character.

All JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Just wondering if your opinion of Jason will change if he doesn't fight for Cassidy?


Yes.

I will be absolutely crushed if this man does not step up now, with his daughter's life on the line. regarding where and whom she will live with.
I won't make any excuses for Jason if he does not do this.
Promise.
Kat

[5swab5]

I think it is laughable that some posters here seem to think that Jason's mother and/or sister(s) are going to appear in Court to answer the custody suit on his behalf.

Coddling one's 30 something-year-old slayer son, may very well "play" in Brevard, but I assure you, in a Courtroom the Judge has the attitude and ego to see to it, that the proper procedures are followed.

Pat may have gotten away with screeching @ N.C.Wanted, but she is in for a rude awakening, if she thinks that kind of behavior will sway Sasser. She can jump up and down on both feet all she wants, all she will end up doing, is hopping out of the Courtroom.

MOO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

You missed this? Maybe there's another way.

Sounds like someone may be thinking about hitting the road. Are you checking with the Youngs before you post things like this?

But you are right, fighting the custody suit did nothing but land BC in jail. It’s probably best for Jason to just worry about himself and let the cards fall where they may. That’s what he had done so far so why stop now.

[Lindsey]

Jason was always employed until after Michelle's death. Yes, he changed jobs but he always had a better one waiting before he left the previous job. There were no lapses in between, contrary to many untruths where some have tried to make it sound like Michelle was the breadwinner. She wasn't. If you had been here from the beginning you would have seen Jason's employment history posted on this board many times. Also, Jason was a homeowner before he married Michelle and I don't think his family bought the house for him. He was co-owner with Ryan Schaad, the man who later married the GA friend, so both of them must have had stable credit history and work history to be able to do that.

I can see plenty of valid reasons lately to put Jason down but let's be fair here. He was never the unemployed bum that several have tried to make him out to be.

JMO

[Lindsey]

< snip >
It certainly does not appear that Cassidy was in need of anything while Michelle was alive and they did not appear to be in the midst of really tough financial circumstances.

I do believe that Michelle's child/ren were and would have always been her top priority.

Ah, finally. So you believe the LE were wrong about Jason and Michelle having financial difficulties as they stated in some of the SWs for PC.

Thank you.

And I agree I believe Michelle was a wonderful mother.

[Lindsey]

The townhouse that Jason owned when he married Michelle and where they continued to live until they bought the house on Birchleaf was not a dump.

Could you give me a link to where Michelle wanted a divorce? I missed that.

[Lindsey]

I'm so ready for this case to be over. I get very angry when I feel there will never be justice for Michelle and there is no excuse for it, IMO. 20 -30 investigators in that house for 13 days and they couldn't get what they needed to solve it. Unreal.

[Leanne Weich]

Ah, finally. So you believe the LE were wrong about Jason and Michelle having financial difficulties as they stated in some of the SWs for PC.

Thank you.

And I agree I believe Michelle was a wonderful mother.

I think it is highly likely they were living cheque to cheque (like a vast majority of young people do) and I do think that if divorce was on the horizon that could have motivated Jason to kill Michelle. What guy of his age is happy having to pay maintenance for two kids - not many that I know of.

[Leanne Weich]

Read your post again that I was responding to and then my response.

'harass' and 'attack' are two words that don't apply to my posting history on this board and CW can vouch for that.

I'm so ready for this case to be over. I get very angry when I feel there will never be justice for Michelle and there is no excuse for it, IMO. 20 -30 investigators in that house for 13 days and they couldn't get what they needed to solve it. Unreal.

ITA. However, sometimes cases that seem so straight forward take longer than this to solve. I saw a program last night (Cold Case files) about a spousal murder that took 30 years to solve even though the initial detectives knew the husband was guilty. I just hope this is not one of those cases - this has taken far too long already.

[jerry50]

I agree. I still can't get over the fact that they missed finding one of Michelle's teeth and it took a family member to find it. So many holes in this case.

I heard that it was a friend that found it when he was there with Kim and others. If it was so easy for him to find so quickly then I am prone to think it was placed there at a later time.
And actually it was not a whole tooth but a shard from one which is even more disgusting in the manner of how Michelle was murdered.

[jerry50]

It may be down to one tiny piece of evidence that they just can't get. What frustrates me is it seems that SP was arrested and convicted on less. What is the hold up?

Why can't it be results from tests that they are still waiting for? JY's DNA was found surrounded by blood. Proving that it was there after the blood was shed would not be an easy task. Sometimes the CSI people have to devise new ways to look at the evidence and they have more than just this case to focus on, unfortunately.

[JHP]

It may be down to one tiny piece of evidence that they just can't get. What frustrates me is it seems that SP was arrested and convicted on less. What is the hold up?

I know it, what are they waiting for? At first I didn't think Jason had an accomplice. But perhaps someone else killed Michelle, and Jason showed up later? When Linda Fisher filed her latest lawsuit it was quite an eye opener about other possible ladyfriends besides MM.
LE did say at the beggining it was a complicated case. I wish we knew what was making it so complicated.

JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

I know it, what are they waiting for? At first I didn't think Jason had an accomplice. But perhaps someone else killed Michelle, and Jason showed up later? When Linda Fisher filed her latest lawsuit it was quite an eye opener about other possible ladyfriends besides MM.
LE did say at the beggining it was a complicated case. I wish we knew what was making it so complicated.

JMO


I think that while there may be some things that point to Jason, there has to also be something that makes it impossible to arrest him..

Something that clears him inexplicity.<sp>

I have no idea what.

But, I am hoping if C is the love of his life as he professes, he will step up and fight for her.

I don't think it is fair for anyone to say he does not love her, or that he loves himself more..

But, if the custody filing date comes and goes without any response, I may have to rethink that..

But, I still don't think there is going to be an arrest in this case anytime soon.

So while L E may be loving the fact that Jason has been named a slayer, they would love a much more official permanent title and address for him.

Kat

[Cardinal]

I know it, what are they waiting for? At first I didn't think Jason had an accomplice. But perhaps someone else killed Michelle, and Jason showed up later? When Linda Fisher filed her latest lawsuit it was quite an eye opener about other possible ladyfriends besides MM.
LE did say at the beggining it was a complicated case. I wish we knew what was making it so complicated.

JMO

Okay, now you're sounding like my Kim theory. LOL

I wish we knew what was making it so complicated, too. But I suppose we'll have to wait for a trial to know.

[achristie]

Jason was always employed until after Michelle's death. Yes, he changed jobs but he always had a better one waiting before he left the previous job. There were no lapses in between, contrary to many untruths where some have tried to make it sound like Michelle was the breadwinner. She wasn't. If you had been here from the beginning you would have seen Jason's employment history posted on this board many times. Also, Jason was a homeowner before he married Michelle and I don't think his family bought the house for him. He was co-owner with Ryan Schaad, the man who later married the GA friend, so both of them must have had stable credit history and work history to be able to do that.

I can see plenty of valid reasons lately to put Jason down but let's be fair here. He was never the unemployed bum that several have tried to make him out to be.

JMO

How do you know he always moved on to a better job? How do you know Michelle was not the breadwinner in terms of better salary and job stability? What do you base that on? Yes, he owned a townhouse when single but he wasn't the sole owner. It was joint ownership. Not frowning on that, just saying he didn't buy it outright, on his own. I've been here from the beginning and vaguely recall he had several change overs with jobs, like maybe 5 in 8 years? I could be wrong since it's been a long time following this. RPD has all the facts on this.

[Barbara2]

Casey was arrested the first time within days, the 2nd time a little over a month later and the 3rd time around the 2 month mark. That isn't a long time considering there was no body at that time. They had to have evidence a death had occured and once they had done that she was indicted and charged with murder fairly quick.

Casey was indicted in October. The body wasn't found until December, IIRC.

[Leanne Weich]

It is unrealistic to compare there being an arrest in Caylee's case because Casey talked and talked on day 1. All her lies led to just one conclusion, imo. and, fortunately for LE, the forensics came back quickly and definitively, it would appear.

This is a totally different situation. I agree with Jerry I think it was, who said that new tests may be coming into play here. Without getting into who is guilty or not in the JonBenet Ramsay case, it is only recently that more tests have found additional DNA evidence on her underwear and that is what, 7 years later.

[Kat4Eagles]

I agree, I don't understand why some people love to compare murder investigations with other ones that in no way are related or comparable. The only time a murder is comparable to another, IMO is if it's a serial killer, or repeat copy cat murders. Investigations are never alike, either, this really is a no brainer.


Yes, but if there was enough evidence in this case to make an arrest,
there would naturally be one.

I think that is the point that was trying to be made, comparing what leads to an arrest as the evidence points to.

And, since most think all evidence points to Jason, then again, the question, why no arrest?

Kat

[JHP]

Maybe children weren't allowed at the condo:shrug:, Where I live most condo's are no one under the age of 18. I have no idea about NC though.

[Leanne Weich]

I seem to remember that it was stated they were in financial straits. Am I wrong about this? I said the Young's meaning both of them funny that you would single out MY in talking about this. Who's idea was it that the condo wasn't good enough for them ? I would think the right think to do was stay in the condo until I had sufficient money that my wife could take care of our child. Thats just me some people want a very expensive house and then put their child under others care so they can pay for it. As I said before we have decided to wait.

Well, I think it was a natural progression to assume you were pointing a finger at Michelle as, after all, you find nothing wrong with Jason's actions or inactions. As far as putting their child under other's care, maybe they felt that Cassidy was better off living in a nice house and being cared for by a loving aunt initially and then going to kindy to learn to socialize with other kids. The point about them being in dire financial straights appears to have come from a SW that mentioned financial problems and message board gossip, imo.

It does seem to be the norm. that young people today want to start off their married lives with big houses, nice cars and that sort of thing. I just look at my own kids and am sometimes amazed at the big homes, fancy cars and gadgets they have. I call my one DD, s-i-l and 2 g/kids, Mr and Mrs Gadget and baby Gadgets. My DD, however, is very lucky in that she doesn't work even though both kids are now at school but they did go to kindy for a couple of years. My s-i-l works very hard to keep them in the comfort to which they became accustomed when living at home - thank goodness. They also moved out of a condo and into a 4 bedroom home with swimming pool etc. when my DD was pregnant. I guess, at the end of the day, it is all about personal preference.

[Leanne Weich]

Jerry, that is interesting, but why do you think the tooth/shard was planted there? What would the point be? I am being sincere and not sarcastic. I just can't understand why someone would have placed it there when it was obvious that was the location where Michelle was killed.

Maybe to show how lax LE were with the CS investigation. :shrug:

[Lindsey]

Maybe children weren't allowed at the condo:shrug:, Where I live most condo's are no one under the age of 18. I have no idea about NC though.

If children were not allowed to live in the townhouse, I think Ryan would have bought Jason out (instead of Jason buying Ryan's half) since Michelle was already pregnant when she and Jason got married and she moved into the townhouse. I don't think there was any problem with children living there. I think they just wanted a bigger, nicer home and felt they could afford it.

IMO

[alterEgo©]

Maybe to show how lax LE were with the CS investigation. :shrug:
It wasn't LE that missed the tooth. CCBI did. Along with other blunders we learned about in SWs

[Cardinal]

I agree, unless it was as someone else said to show how lax the CS investigation was. But that doesn't make sense either. Where would they have gotten the tooth, just doesn't make any sense.

Given the nature of the crime there should have been so much dna/evidence on both the perp and the victim. Whoever walked out of there didn't walk away clean. How does LE miss something like this if it was JY? That's the only thing that makes me think it wasn't him.

The clothes Jason was videotaped wearing at midnight have been the subject of several SWs, but apparently weren't found. Any evidence of the crime on those clothes would have disappeared with the clothes themselves.

[Cardinal]

[QUOTE=bookie;12639378]Considering there was no rape kit and the police had to go back a year later to get evidence from the furniture there is always the possibility of another suspect. No one had to show how lax the police were, their own actions accomplished that.[/QUOTE

Thank you. This is why we post here. I am thinking this is a random crime committed by a man who hates women.

That theory has been explored by some posters. What evidence do you see that it was random?

[jerry50]

Jerry, that is interesting, but why do you think the tooth/shard was planted there? What would the point be? I am being sincere and not sarcastic. I just can't understand why someone would have placed it there when it was obvious that was the location where Michelle was killed.

It would be a way of making LE look inept and causing doubts on their investigation. I don't know if it was mentioned here but it has been mentioned on another blog that one of JY's favorite TV crime
episodes had a killer leaving teo different show prints to throw off investigations. Planting evidence after the crime scene was released would be a great idea in a premed murder which I don't have any doubts this was.

[jerry50]

Considering there was no rape kit and the police had to go back a year later to get evidence from the furniture there is always the possibility of another suspect. No one had to show how lax the police were, their own actions accomplished that.

LE is still able to get "touch DNA" from her clothes around the waist and such if someone had redressed her.
This is how LE was able to exhonerate the Ramsey's because there was foreign DNA on JonBenet's underwear or pj's.

[alterEgo©]

The clothes Jason was videotaped wearing at midnight have been the subject of several SWs, but apparently weren't found. Any evidence of the crime on those clothes would have disappeared with the clothes themselves.The first search for the clothes being in Feb 2008, right?. When they also decided to check the bedroom furniture for trace evidence.

[alterEgo©]

It would be a way of making LE look inept and causing doubts on their investigation. I don't know if it was mentioned here but it has been mentioned on another blog that one of JY's favorite TV crime
episodes had a killer leaving teo different show prints to throw off investigations. Planting evidence after the crime scene was released would be a great idea in a premed murder which I don't have any doubts this was.
Ineresting that it isn't mentioned as PC in any SWs.

If evidence was going to be 'planted', why waste the effort on a tooth fragment? What do you think the tooth is evidence of that it had to be planted?

[Cardinal]

The first search for the clothes being in Feb 2008, right?. When they also decided to check the bedroom furniture for trace evidence.

Actually, my guess would be that the first search for the clothes occurred after they obtained the SW for Jason's SUV.


ETA: And it obviously wasn't found in his luggage from his out-of-town trip.

[Tia]

LE is still able to get "touch DNA" from her clothes around the waist and such if someone had redressed her.
This is how LE was able to exhonerate the Ramsey's because there was foreign DNA on JonBenet's underwear or pj's.


To the best of my knowledge, no foreign DNA was found in the Young home. If foreign DNA had been found, the discussions here, IMO, would be very different!

[Cardinal]

AE, it's no longer a guess on my part. I just re-read the Feb 07 SW, and it states very clearly that the shirt Jason was seen wearing in the video was not found in his luggage, and that his mother "...denied that her son washed, changed, or discarded any clothing while at her home."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

So the shirt, specifically, that Jason was seen wearing in the videotape was not in his vehicle or his luggage when he arrived in Fuquay.

Where is it?

[Hey Paula]

AE, it's no longer a guess on my part. I just re-read the Feb 07 SW, and it states very clearly that the shirt Jason was seen wearing in the video was not found in his luggage, and that his mother "...denied that her son washed, changed, or discarded any clothing while at her home."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

So the shirt, specifically, that Jason was seen wearing in the videotape was not in his vehicle or his luggage when he arrived in Fuquay.

Where is it?

I think JY dumped it, along with the murder weapon, on his way back to VA.

[alterEgo©]

:shrug:Actually, my guess would be that the first search for the clothes occurred after they obtained the SW for Jason's SUV.


ETA: And it obviously wasn't found in his luggage from his out-of-town trip.
It's not listed as an item to be searched for :shrug:

[Lindsey]

AE, it's no longer a guess on my part. I just re-read the Feb 07 SW, and it states very clearly that the shirt Jason was seen wearing in the video was not found in his luggage, and that his mother "...denied that her son washed, changed, or discarded any clothing while at her home."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/12/3365337/1219081477-20080818133406629.pdf

So the shirt, specifically, that Jason was seen wearing in the videotape was not in his vehicle or his luggage when he arrived in Fuquay.

Where is it?

Hey Cardinal,

I believe that was Feb 08 SW, wasn't it? That "missing" shirt bothered me a LOT at first until I realized how long it took them to search for it AND all the other things they 'overlooked' or just flat out neglected to check out. They had the tape within days after Michelle's murder so why didn't they look for the shirt sooner? It would carry a whole lot more weight with me if they had.

All JMO

[alterEgo©]

Hey Cardinal,

I believe that was Feb 08 SW, wasn't it? That "missing" shirt bothered me a LOT at first until I realized how long it took them to search for it AND all the other things they 'overlooked' or just flat out neglected to check out. They had the tape within days after Michelle's murder so why didn't they look for the shirt sooner? It would carry a whole lot more weight with me if they had.

All JMOYou're right Lindsey, it is from Feb '08, not Feb '07. And I agree, they didn't look for it upon the initial search of his vehicle because they didn't know about it for a few days. But they never went back to look for it.

Not for a year and half.

[Kat4Eagles]

To the best of my knowledge, no foreign DNA was found in the Young home. If foreign DNA had been found, the discussions here, IMO, would be very different!


We don't know if there was or was not any foreign DNA found at the crime scene.

We do know that L E took prints of anyone that had been in the Young home for comparison.

They already had Jason's prints, so who or what did they need to compare them to?

Sounds like something foreign to me.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You're right Lindsey, it is from Feb '08, not Feb '07. And I agree, they didn't look for it upon the initial search of his vehicle because they didn't know about it for a few days. But they never went back to look for it.

Not for a year and half.


And, by then there could be several legit reasons..

Why did they wait so long?

Kat

[alterEgo©]

We don't know if there was or was not any foreign DNA found at the crime scene.

We do know that L E took prints of anyone that had been in the Young home for comparison.

They already had Jason's prints, so who or what did they need to compare them to?

Sounds like something foreign to me.

Kat
What did they compare them to? It's not like they processed the furniture in the bedroom.

Oh wait, they waited until AFTER the furniture had been moved from the home into a storage facility and then after several months, they they decided to check it out.

[Tia]

We don't know if there was or was not any foreign DNA found at the crime scene.

We do know that L E took prints of anyone that had been in the Young home for comparison.

They already had Jason's prints, so who or what did they need to compare them to?

Sounds like something foreign to me.

Kat

To my knowledge, LE never said they discovered foreign DNA in the house. I would think that would have come up in the SW's.

[Kat4Eagles]

What did they compare them to? It's not like they processed the furniture in the bedroom.

Oh wait, they waited until AFTER the furniture had been moved from the home into a storage facility and then after several months, they they decided to check it out.

Hi A/E !!

I would imagine they compared them to any foreign prints.
:)
Kat