1/1 - 3/16 [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

texski

01-01-2009, 01:01 PM

houston chronicle, dec. 26
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.
s are pure. This can't be a crime because Heavenly Father is the one that tells (jailed FLDS leader Warren Jeffs) when a girl is ready to get married ..."

An unnamed 13-year-old girl seized from a polygamist compound. She was asked whether a 13-year-old girl who married a 40-year-old man and had a baby would be considered sexually abused.

_ "This case is about adult men commanding sex from underage children."

Child Protective Services, in an appeal to the state Supreme Court, defending its seizure of more than 400 children from a polygamist compound.

_ "On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted."

Texas Supreme Court, ordering children from the polygamist compound be returned to their parents.

TealMermaid

01-01-2009, 02:02 PM

OOPS
here, Walton posted it

http://www.leftturnfilms.com/

Thanks. Wow that looks interesting. I can't wait to see the film.

walton

01-01-2009, 10:45 PM

So we went on a road trip between Christmas and New Year's. We drove from northern NV down to Las Vegas, then over to Flagstaff to visit relatives. Our trip took us through Kingman, twice. I waved hello to Warren for each of you.

:lol:

:biggrin: Good to see you.

Are you that close to Kingman? Up for an adventure?

Go look in the windows and tell me if you see Warren sitting on his cot. Now just about everyone appears the same height when they are sitting down, but even Warrens height should give him away.

If he is laying down his feet should be dangling over the edge unless of course he is in a fetal position which would of course take up the whole cot.

Now if he is on his knees still praying, his head and shoulders should be much higher than the door lock thingy.

And if the deputy comes out and asks you what your doing, tell him that Walton says she is tired of the games and I wanna know for sure that is Warren Steed Jeffs sitting in that jail cell.

Now if that female deputy comes out.... Run!! I think she might be fed up with my little antics.

All this was said in fun. Please no one try this. I am not sure but I think a person could get into trouble for it. If I lived closer I would try it. It probably cost me a night in the slammer and a fine, but I would be measuring everything so I could get the dimensions down pat. I'd also be bellering like an old cow calling out Warrens name in hopes that he'd answer me.

walton

01-01-2009, 10:51 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11320432

Please read the comments made after this story. A very long read but so worth it.

Some of the info shared is old news. Some of the info there are things that I've read about and could not put the pieces together. Some of the info is new even to me.

walton

01-01-2009, 10:57 PM

I had tried calling but couldn't get thru. I sent off an e-mail and got a response back.

The kids are fine. :smile:

http://thehopeorg.org/ Lots of info here

Here is a phone number and mailing addy if anyone is interested.

The HOPE Organization
115 North 300 West, Building B Suite 101
Washington, UT 84780

Contact us:
(435) 627-9582
email us

texski

01-02-2009, 12:50 AM

reading the comments by willie jessup it is clear he is asking for money from the state. getting ready for a law suit??? he uses words like reimbursement for their treatment by the authorities. i cannot see texas handing over any money , can the rest of you here?? so that means law suits, which, i think, would be good, it would be a window into their secret world .

juliekan

01-02-2009, 01:31 AM

walton

01-03-2009, 06:43 AM

This website must really chaff the arses of Warren, Wee Wille and the other losers in the leadership of FLDS. It debunks their entire religious viewpoint from a Mormon viewpoint.

But they believe it to be true.

walton

01-03-2009, 10:45 AM

I just do not understand how they want to keep things the same ie 1840's instead of moving forward and being a progressive society.

IMO Greed, Power, Money and Sex

juliekan

01-04-2009, 10:30 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/news.html

CEDAR CITY - A Utah state senator is preparing to present his controversial incest bill during the 2009 Utah legislative session, which begins Jan. 26.

Two Utah geneticists provided testimony to back Stowell's case. Nobel Prize winner Dr. Mario Capecchi, University of Utah distinguished professor of human genetics and biology and investigator at Howard Hughes Medical Center, provided statistics, saying there is a 25-50 percent chance of deformity with first relationships and 6-8 percent with second relationships. First relationships include father-daughter and brother-sister incest, and second include cousin and uncle-niece relationships, Stowell explained. John Opitz, University of Utah professor of pediatrics, human genetics, pathology, obstetrics and gynecology, wrote in his testimony that "the deleterious effects of incest in resulting offspring by way of mortality, defect and mental retardation range from 61 to 89 percent."

walton

01-04-2009, 01:53 PM

http://www.kued.org/productions/utahnow/?action=people

I just found this site. Listen to Bill Allreds 350 words or less about Polygamy issues.

Actually there are a lot of good topics over there.

walton

01-05-2009, 05:37 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11368343

Allegations that members of a southern Utah polygamous sect are guilty of widespread welfare fraud were raised repeatedly this summer during a U.S. Senate judiciary committee hearing.

They surfaced frequently, too, in messages sent to Texas Gov. Rick Perry after an April raid on the Eldorado ranch occupied by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

"Please pull the plug on the freebies for the cult. Why are the taxpayers of your state paying for this illegal group?" wrote a Michigan couple on April 17.

But welfare data from Utah, Arizona and Texas do not support the claims.

Remember that Utah and Arizona also don't have much data supporting the FACT that there is child abuse and child marriages going on inside these two states.

Just because they don't have the data doesn't mean it isn't happening. Utah and Arizona have done little to get off their arses to do anything concerning these groups.

I do believe that this is called stirring the pot.

It can't be easy being a reporter in these two states. imo

juliekan

01-05-2009, 11:51 AM

From the above article:

But Paul Murphy, spokesman for Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, said that while there may not be "outright fraud" by the polygamous community, there is "a resentment that taxpayers are being used to support this lifestyle.

"If you are going to have three wives and 15 children, you need to figure out a way to support three wives and 15 children," he said.

AMEN

texski

01-05-2009, 03:24 PM

the fraud comes in when they are able to give 1,000 a month to their prophet but claim they are unable to support their children by these extra "wives" who list themselves as single women in order to qualify for all the government welfare. they also work for corporations who must not give them any health benefits because the care of these sickly children is all on the taxpayers as well. the inbreeding that causes mental health problems is claimed on the social security as well as all the children the old men have with the young wives after they are on social security. i wonder if any of them pay any taxes at all, they are just using those of us who do pay our taxes as suckers to support them.

walton

01-06-2009, 02:08 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705275478,00.html

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, held hearings on the BCS in 2003 as chairman of the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee, accusing the entity of bias against non-BCS teams. Following the U.'s Sugar Bowl win last week, Hatch repeated his criticisms.

"Regardless of what happens in the Florida-Oklahoma game, the outcome will not change the fact that there is only one undefeated team in Division I college football: the University of Utah," Hatch said. "For the second time in four years, the BCS-busting Utes have gone undefeated and yet uninvited to play for a national championship. That needs to change because the system is broken. The BCS is fatally flawed and, until it is fixed, will continue to produce a flawed college football champion."

Sometimes words just escape me.

But you should see the facial expressions and hand gestures.:ohmy:

walton

01-06-2009, 02:13 AM

The FLDS continues with it's propaganda campaign with this story broadcast by a Houston,TX TV station.

http://www.khou.com/news/state/stories/khou081228_mp_polygamists.16a9c451.html

Watch video link on website. IMO this is whitewash as issue of under age marriages is not resolved.:rolleyes:

Oh come on now. He did say that he was raising his kids to be honest and good citizens.

Growing up in Arizona was a good thing despite that his father was involved in the raid of '53'. He himself was/is a respectable and productive part of society. No baggage from growing up in a cult that condones breaking the law and watching others do just that.

Yup. I vote a thin white wash.

walton

01-06-2009, 02:22 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705275420,00.html

exas child welfare authorities are seeking permanent conservatorship of a 14-year-old girl allegedly married to Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs.

The girl's mother wants a jury to ultimately decide who gets custody of all of her children. Barbara Jessop's attorney, Valerie J. Malara, filed a demand notice in an Eldorado, Texas, court, seeking a jury trial to decide custody over her three children.

The demand was filed in advance of a permanency hearing scheduled Thursday in San Angelo, Texas, where child welfare authorities were to update a judge on the girl's status in foster care.

More info at the link. They mention BillM's website.

texski

01-06-2009, 11:46 AM

lotty

01-06-2009, 11:47 AM

walton

01-07-2009, 07:02 AM

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148264,00.html

Lawyer Rod Parker, who represents the group, says after a man first weds, subsequent marriages are performed only within the church and don't involve underage girls, therefore breaking no laws. For the FLDS, he says, "the issue is, who controls marriage—the state or God and God's representative, their prophet?"

This was printed in 2003

If a lawyer knows his client or anyone else is breaking the law... don't they have a legal obligation to report it? or is Polygamy legal in Utah? ( Don't have to answer that, I know it isn't legal.)

Just wondering.

walton

01-07-2009, 07:08 AM

football games are much more important to utah than possible crimes against children.??????
i think it is wonderful that we are getting a lot of news about the flds, someone, somewhere has gotten thru to the media that the public is concerned and wants our public officials to start being concerned as well.

Hey there Texski,

Do you remember Hatch saying one thing about the Polygamy issue in the last year? two years?

I think during the Senate hearing I might have seen him bite his lip a time or two.

walton

01-07-2009, 08:30 AM

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Church-of-Lies/Flora-Jessop/e/9780787994624/?itm=3

"My name is Flora Jessop. I’ve been called apostate, vigilante, and crazy *****, and maybe I am. But some people call me a hero, and I’d like to think they’re right too. If I am a hero, maybe it’s because every time I can play a part in saving a child or a woman from a life of servitude and degradation, I’m saving a little piece of me, too.

I was one of twenty-eight children born to my dad and his three wives. Indoctrinated to believe that the outside world was evil, and that I resided among the righteous, I was destined to marry a man chosen for me by the Prophet. I would then live in harmony with my sister-wives, bear many children, and obey and serve my future husband in this life and throughout eternity. But my innocence didn’t last long. While still a child, I understood that the church of the righteous was nothing but a church of lies.

more at the link

I really like and admire Flora. The link said that the books would be published Jan. 27th

walton

01-07-2009, 06:51 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11398137?source=rv

After investigating a small polygamous community in British Columbia for more than three years, Canadian authorities have charged two of its leaders with practicing polygamy.

Jim Oler, 44, and Winston Blackmore, 52, were arrested this morning and each face one count. They are expected to be released later today, with the conditions that they limit their travel and do not perform any spiritual marriages, said Sgt. Tim Shields, a media relations officer for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Blackmore and Older are scheduled for an appearance in Creston Provincial Court on Jan. 21.

Oler, accused of having two wives, is charged with "practicing polygamy" between Nov. 1, 2004, and Oct. 8, 2008.

Blackmore, alleged to have 20 wives, is charged with "practicing polygamy" between May 1, 2005, and Dec. 8, 2006.

And further into the article: Willie Jessop, a spokesman for the FLDS Church, said the sect is "very disappointed" by the charges.

"This is clearly not about underage marriage," Jessop said. "We've been very specific that we do not condone underage marriage and haven't for several years. This demonstrates nothing more than a vindictive attitude toward our religion."

Holy Cow!! This took me by surprise. Big time.

I wasn't expecting anything out of Canada until after Warrens trials were over.

Funny how Willie is talking for/about this sect up in Canada. What the heck. lol

Man, I really really hope someone puts EVERYTHING in a book and tells it all. This is HUGE! and I am liking it. :thumbsup: Somehow, I am feeling just a tad bit safer.

Got Texas to my South and Canada to my North. :biggrin:

walton

01-07-2009, 06:59 PM

I was pretty upset the other night when I heard MS statements about the Utes. My thinking was that if the politicians could put as much effort into protecting the children of the FLDS maybe we would be getting somewhere. Don't get me wrong football is ok, but more important is our children and the prosecution of those who hurt our children.
I am glad the media is giving more attention to the issues of the FLDS. Now if we could get the politicians and justice people to start doing their job where these children are involved our society would be a lot better.

jmoo

I love football. And I like it even better when the spectators get involved. What irked me was that Hatch couldn't take the time out of his day to address the issues of Polygamy.

What irked me is that Mark Shurtleff said they didn't have the time or resources to "investigate" smaller issues like Polygamy.

What really pissed me off is that Shurtleff did the shoo shoo sound when so many people went into his office, gave him names, times, events and probably quoted to him which laws were being broken and he tells them he doesn't have proof. BS

He did the Walkabout with Willie but couldn't take a day to go to Dan Fischers place and talk to the kids. And to think that Shurtleff got reelected another term. If I lived in Utah, I would be asking for my money back. jmo

walton

01-07-2009, 08:04 PM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705275844,00.html

Both Blackmore and Oler were to be released from RCMP custody late Wednesday pending a future court appearance. They were ordered by a judge to surrender their passports, check in with RCMP authorities, not leave British Columbia and perform no "celestial" marriages," said RCMP Sgt. Tim Shields.

A spokesman for the FLDS Church did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

News of the charges stunned many.

"I'm shocked. I really am," said Mary Batchelor, the director of the Utah-based pro-polygamy group Principle Voices. "I'm amazed they are actually doing that."

Batchelor said she had been in contact with some of Blackmore's wives, whom she said were understandably upset.

I don't know why but this just cracked me up: A spokesman for the FLDS Church did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

I wonder how a person gets the number for the FLDS spokesman?
Yellow Pages?
FLDS?
FLDS spokesman. Please Dial #1
Latest FLDS spokesman. Please dial #2
About to be waiting in the wings spokesperson. Please dial #3

lol

Mary Batchelor shocked? Good.

And Winston has this to say:
"Since we are not hiding we are not hard to find," he wrote. "It is hard to think that Canada, the home of free lovers and legalized same-sex marriages, not to mention legal wife-swapping clubs, could waste their time on people who live like we do."

Waste of time? lol

Sorry Winston I just never did buy into that I am going to leave little girls alone song and dance. They took Winstons passport and he can't leave Canada. :biggrin:

Yup, I am feeling dang good about now. Texas Rangers and the Canadian Mounted Police. :thumbsup:

texski

01-08-2009, 12:08 AM

there are a lot of CANADIANS here in florida where we and they spend the winter. tomorrow i plan to go out and hug as many as i can find and tell them thank you for their government. if they dont know what i am talking about , maybe i can get more of them involved in watching the ones in their country. OH CANADA

juliekan

01-08-2009, 01:22 AM

juliekan

01-08-2009, 01:28 AM

from Walton's post above:

And Winston has this to say:

Quote:
"Since we are not hiding we are not hard to find," he wrote. "It is hard to think that Canada, the home of free lovers and legalized same-sex marriages, not to mention legal wife-swapping clubs, could waste their time on people who live like we do."

Waste of time? lol

And where is Merrill Jessop and Wendall Neilson? They let him go, and you will never see them again.

juliekan

01-08-2009, 01:42 AM

OK, now that I have calmed down a bit I have a couple of questions. (did not expect to come in and check the computer and something has happened; yes Walton you warned me something was coming.)

why is Blackmore only charged with bigamy from May 2005 - December 2006 if he has 20 wives?

I thought they were trying to distance themselves from the FLDS down here....who called in the dogs....I mean Willie J?

Where is Rod Parker?

juliekan

01-08-2009, 01:57 AM

to quote walton:

Got Texas to my South and Canada to my North

goodnight all!

walton

01-08-2009, 02:50 AM

Amazing how things work out, ole Warren and his cronies must be feeling pretty low about now. Yet I wonder what's next, will the FLDS break up, will it go underground and lash out in a violent manner like the LaBarons. I still wonder if the FLDS had anything to do with burning of Gov house in Austin, TX.

Should make interesting read when Flora J's book comes out, will new secrets come out, who will be embarassed. Will names be named.

Isn't this just great news Texas-SE?

I don't know how they would be able to go underground with this much press. Kinda hard to build a compound anyplace and not be noticed.

Concerning the Gov. mansion I don't know that the FLDS really had anything to do with it. I think that if anything it could be one of those groups that would use the FLDS as an excuse to do something. Friends in low places type thing.

I am looking forward to Floras book.

walton

01-08-2009, 02:56 AM

Sorry, will get back on topic, as I have scrolled up and seen lots is going on but I have to relate what my DH had to say tonight. We were discussing politics and he brought up (to put it nicely) Harry Reid. He said HR only cares about:
1. himself
2. his political party
3. then his country(maybe)

And my DH doesn't even follow this topic. He'd just angry at everything else Harry Reid is doing.

You and your husband talk Politics? I've heard of that happening with other people. I've just never been able to experience this. lol

Harry Reid is the one that brought Stephen Singular to the Senate hearing. I use to give "uncle Harry" a bad time so I've kinda let up on him a bit since he pushed the whole "investigation thing.

I won't hold back on Hatch though. He should know better. imo

walton

01-08-2009, 03:04 AM

I have an idea where Wendell and Merill are at.

Rod Parker is pacing in a room with a bright light and a guy pounding a table with his fist saying TALK!!

The reason for the charges during that time frame is because they have "evidence" to back up that time frame. jmo

As far as Willie....I bet it is two more years before I find out for sure about his confirmed role in all this.

This is a good day.

lotty

01-08-2009, 11:15 AM

There is a custody hearing today, about B. Jessop's daughter (14yo).
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/content/fulltext/?cid=88591

On the other note...Isn't Jim Oler the head of the FLDS Bountiful group? Someone set me straight. Winston was exe'd.

Mr. Willie running his mouth again...when is he going to realize, it's not just about underage marriage? JMO

lotty

01-08-2009, 02:47 PM

juliekan

01-08-2009, 06:41 PM

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/08/breaking-news-attorneys-agree-to-trial-in-sect/

BREAKING NEWS: Attorneys agree to trial in sect custody case

The jury trial will take place Sept. 28 in Tom Green County, as the attorneys in a separate order agreed to waive the constitutional requirement that such a trial be held in Schleicher County, whose courthouse has no air conditioning

juliekan

01-08-2009, 06:47 PM

and this....

I guess they must have found a "family member" for her to live with, otherwise I cannot imagine them letting her live with a foster family till Sept.(sigh)

According to an order signed this afternoon by 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, the state will investigate another possible placement for the girl, who sect documents record as being married to Jeffs when she was 12 years old.

juliekan

01-08-2009, 07:00 PM

[QUOTE=lotty;12631305]http://www.vancouversun.com/news/todays-paper/Polygamy+showdown/1153721/story.html

Interesting article. Two very different approaches to the same problem, although Texas, I think was pushed in a very different direction. This will be interesting to watch.
<snipped>

:seeya: lotty, long time no see!

terrific article, written in a very open manner, almost naively....I think they may have an uphill battle, from some of what they said.

juliekan

01-08-2009, 07:34 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11408229

Texas says mom cooperating to protect FLDS teen

In its motion, the department said Barbara Jessop failed a home study because she did not provide a "plan for how she might protect'' her daughter from being placed in another marriage.

But in court Thursday, state officials said she is now complying with their requests.

Yikes, sounds like they may send her home?

juliekan

01-08-2009, 08:07 PM

Bountiful timeline
Vancouver SunJanuary 7, 2009

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Bountiful+timeline/1152403/story.html

juliekan

01-08-2009, 08:18 PM

Some at polygamist ranch fight label of abuser

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-polygamists_07tex.ART.State.Edition1.4aa1582.html

AUSTIN – About 30 percent of polygamist sect adults labeled by the state as child abusers or neglectful parents have asked Child Protective Services to take a second look at their status.

Last fall, 95 sect adults received letters from CPS identifying them as perpetrators of child mistreatment. Of them, 28 have asked for an administrative review, CPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins said Tuesday.

"We are approaching these reviews objectively and fairly, as we do in any case," Crimmins said.

Reviews are being conducted by CPS personnel who weren't involved in the original investigation, as state law requires, he said.

Willie Jessop, spokesman for the Utah-based Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, said many sect adults are too weary or financially pinched to fight to clear their names.

He said he fears some, especially women trained as nurses, may hurt their employment prospects by not contesting CPS' actions.

"It may be five or 10 years down the road before they really see the true consequences of not fighting it when they could have," he said.

walton

01-09-2009, 02:54 AM

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/todays-paper/Polygamy+showdown/1153721/story.html

Interesting article. Two very different approaches to the same problem, although Texas, I think was pushed in a very different direction. This will be interesting to watch.

Hi grammy :seeya:
I wonder how the custody hearing will go today. I wish they would push for a jury to decide the custody issue. I can't imagine a jury giving a child to a parent who takes the 5th so often. JMO

From the article: "I'm ecstatic," said Audrey Vance, whose Creston-based group Altering Destiny Through Education, has been one of the most vocal opponents of polygamy. "When we first started doing this, my son told me to mind my own business.

"But I told him that when the old girls' club takes on the old boys' club, the old girls will win."

:biggrin: I like it.

walton

01-09-2009, 03:21 AM

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/01/08/7955051-sun.html

"We finally have an attorney general willing to say polygamy is against the law in Canada," said Audrey Vance, co-chair of Altering Destiny Through Education, an anti-polygamy group based in Creston. "I'm delighted that they've been charged."

Despite repeated warnings from prosecutors the polygamy case might fail, Oppal has decided to take the Bountiful elders to court on Jan. 21.

There, Blackmore, who leads one of two groups in the community, is likely to turn the witness stand into a pulpit promoting Bountiful's plural-marriage lifestyle, while denying any child abuse. He's done the same in past press interviews, including an appearance on CNN's Larry King Live in 2006.

Vance says she is happy to hear Blackmore's side of it, so long as the legal question of polygamy is finally settled.

"He loves the attention and he will claim religious freedom. He is challenging us as Canadians to do something about it," said Vance.

"Now we are."

walton

01-09-2009, 03:29 AM

http://www.theprovince.com/people+help+make+case+against+polygamy/1151763/story.html

Deputy Editor Fabian Dawson has written extensively about the polygamous group in Bountiful since 1990.

Here is a list of people whose reports and experiences can help the government’s case.

Please check this story out. I tried to copy and paste part of the story and just a snip will not do it justice.

walton

01-09-2009, 03:33 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/prophet_PN_BC_3way_struggle.html

written in 2002

Weeks before his death, Jeffs visited Bountiful to denounce Blackmore and to consolidate a power base for his son Warren Jeffs, his chosen successor. Jeffs ordered followers not to listen to Blackmore's sermons, ordered Blackmore to relinquish control of his junior wives, and place his assets under the control of the United Effort Plan.

Blackmore, who has 30 wives and more than 100 children, is Bountiful's bishop, chief executive officer of its businesses and trustee of its property.

Now Warren Jeffs has removed Blackmore as a United Effort trustee. And another Bountiful elder, Jim Oler, has been named the head of the B.C. commune.

walton

01-09-2009, 03:41 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/canada_VS_financial_troubles_threaten_Winston.html

Mounting debts have already forced the former bishop of Bountiful to sell, transfer and even forfeit more than $3 million worth of property -- nearly half of all the property he owned personally or through companies just a year ago.

And there's another deadline looming. A B.C. Supreme Court justice has given Blackmore, J.R. Blackmore & Sons Ltd., his brother, Richard Guy Blackmore, and two half-brothers, Richard William Blackmore and David Kevin Blackmore, until Oct. 25 to repay the $1.03 million owed HSBC on July 25, 2005.

Blackmore is president of the company. His brothers are directors.

But they don't just owe HSBC $1.03 million, the interest is mounting at $202.75 a day.

This was written in 2005. I don't know if any of this has been taken care of since this was written but I am thinking with 100 kids it just can't be easy.

walton

01-09-2009, 03:43 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/bustupinbountiful/interviews_winston.html

This is really good. Make sure to watch the video.

walton

01-09-2009, 03:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elz88Yg

A little about "family connections".

lotty

01-09-2009, 11:43 AM

With Oler and Blackmore, there are two very different personalities. This could be very interesting to follow...

The thing with BJ, wow what a quick turn around. From being non-compliant to compliant. I think it is a show for a potential jury, but how many people can get past the photo of WJ planting a big old kiss on the young Miss Jessop?:blink: JMO

Hi everyone!:seeya:

texski

01-09-2009, 10:18 PM

if merrill jessup is on social security he may be getting benefits paid for this daughter. and also i believe i read that one of his children with barbara jessup has a medical/mental problem, so he should be getting benefits for that son as well. where is the money going? anyone know?

walton

01-10-2009, 01:17 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3mqagTzJt4&feature=related

Try this link. Titled FLDS Geneograms Tracking the Polygamous Family Trees video by MIB (Jay Beswick)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elz88YggU6s&feature=related

This is part 2 of Geneograms Tracking the Polygamous Family Trees

Sorry about the link earlier. I did the preview test on this one and they both work.

walton

01-10-2009, 01:30 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11417316

Willie Jessop, spokesman for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, was allowed to cross the border into Canada Friday after being denied entry for more than four hours.

Jessop and two companions were stopped at noon and allowed to enter the country at about 4:15 p.m. MDT. During the wait, Canada Border Service Agency officials searched their laptops and a camera. They earlier had searched the men's Lincoln Navigator and their personal bags, Jessop said.

****************************************

Please check out the link. At this link is a picture of Willie inside of a vehicle with some at the drivers seat. Who is this guy?

On the home page of the Salt Lake Tribune is a picture of Willie and two other guys outside of the Border Patrol office. Who is the guy to Willies right and our left?
*******************************************

The only issue for the border officials, Jessop he said, seemed to be that he and his companions were recognized as FLDS members. "In America, we call that discrimination," he said.

"Recognized FLDS members" So.... who are they?

lotty

01-10-2009, 10:34 AM

Did anyone know WB's The North Star website is back up. The blog which is a q&a is quite interesting. Although he isn't taking any questions right now.

http://sharethelight.ca/

walton

01-10-2009, 10:38 AM

http://www.flds.ws/2009/01/09/geez-i-must-have-gotten-too-close-to-the-truth/#comments

Read the comments after this story.

I do NOT post on this board. I don't even read over there very often. But when things seem a little out of whack, I go over there to see if there is somehow a connection.

One of the questions I did post over at the Salt Lake Tribune about Willies detainment is: What are the chances that Willie would go thru the border the same time that a reporter and photgrapher from the Salt Lake Tribune be up there.

The article written about Willies detainment is not written by Brooke but someone else. The photograph is not from Trent but someone else.

Lastnight a poster named pligfighter posted pictures over at the Trib. oddly enough some of the same pictures that have appeared on BillM's site. Some were pictures of the children. Some were pictures of the Holocaust.

Those pictures were stuck and brought the comment section to stories down.

Now why am I posting this? I am tired of the games. All of them!

As someone who likes to read, I am disappointed in many of the papers I've read over the course of the last few years.

I've been disappointed in some books.

Stories made up. fake pictures. Half truths. If I want to read fiction I would be in the fiction section.

Now.. Someone from the Trib knew that Willie was going to be at the border. Why didn't they print that?

Why not tell it like it is?

I've copied and pasted Bills comments in case they go poof.

This pushing and shoving from newspaper outlets is stupid. The name calling and game playing has got to stop.

As a reader all I want is the truth. I don't want to play the games. I just want to read.

I am not happy. :(

walton

01-10-2009, 11:08 AM

I am looking for reporters/writers anyone that might be able to answer these questions. No money involved. Just someone who might be able to answer these questions. Game players need not even try.

1.Why were the cameras pulled on sentencing day?

2.Who was the police actually escorting to the Arizona jail? It wasn't Warren.

3. Where is Warren? What was the deal with his "outside" visits?

4. Who was that man they called Wendell Nielsen? It wasn't Wendell.

5. Why was Salt Lake Tribune notified that Willie was going to the border? and it just so happened when they got a photographer and writer up there. Remember Brooke was in Texas on the 8th for BJ courthouse scene.

6. Why the story about the Park clean up as if it just happened when it actually happened last year? Was EPA involved?

7. What was the whole deal with Willie and Mark Shurtleffs little walk about?

8. Who is Willie Jessop. And really what is his role? Is he the spokesmen for the FLDS or is he working for the Feds?

The two men in the photo at the border, who were they? Should I take a guess?

9. Who is rericson?

10. What was the grain elevator at the YFZ ranch being used for? And how did they feed the cattle?

This story concerning the FLDS has been about the crimes against women and children.

While investigating that, they found other crimes that have been occurred. Is it necessary to continue with the mind games? Do they even realize that is exactly what Warren Jeffs and the leaders before him were doing?

I am well aware of mind games. Been there done that. I didn't like it then and I sure as hell don't like it now. The affect lasts much longer than black and blue marks.

Don't need to make up things. The truth is much crazier and uglier than anything anyone can make up.

walton

01-10-2009, 01:39 PM

It appears that the comments function for the Trib articles are down across the boards, comment function is not working on sports, feature articles etc. Suspect nothing foul going on, just a server failure, but then I could be wrong.:blink:

Here is the last thing I saw last night. Pligfighter was posting pictures on a comment board. Is that possible? I do not believe that is a possible feature at that board.

He started off by ranting and raving much like BillM over at his site and then came the posting of pictures of the kids with snide remarks.

It then went to pictures of the Holocaust.

That is when it froze.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11417316 <<< This link as of right now shows the last thing I saw. A picture being downloaded onto the Salt Lake Tribune.

In this frame it is unable to take any more comments.

Just now going back to the trib I get this: http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_11417316?source=rss http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_11417316?source=rss

A total of 2 comments. The rest are gone and I guess as they should be.

My problem isn't that I can or not comment. It isn't even really about the pictures that pligfighter posted. It is the fact that he could do it. Period.

Servers go down all the time. I understand that. But the article came back up along with 2 comments? Not the 20 plus pages of comments?

My problem is that the story is about a man Willie Jessop is detained at the border and there just happens to be a photographer and a reporter at the exact same time that Willie is there.

My problem is that over on BillM's site he speaks about being in contact with Brooke concerning the name of her most current piece on her blog.

My problem is that he writes as if Brooke was at the border when Willie was there.

At the Deseret News Ben reported on the arrests of Winston Blackmore and Jim Oler. This was done on the 7th. Talked about on the 6th.

Jan. 8th The article comes out in the Trib. with updated versions.

My problem isn't who reported it first.

My problem is how did they know it happened when it did? Who told who and when? It was all planned.

Why would Willie tell the Press he was going to be there? If he didn't why would the Feds call?

The same thing with Winston. He knew all along that they were going to come get him. Why not just have him come in and avoid all the hoopla?

So... is Willie working with the Feds?

Winston was contacted months ago. He has been in contact with the law and media since before Warren got caught. He was in Utah having his picture taken at the Park. Was a deal made? Taxes and charges dropped if he went along?

It is a disaster about to happen if they don't start coming out with the truth. jmo

As with all the BS in Utah. Letting the victim list grow while letting the offenders free is stupid.

Keeping the truth hidden is dangerous. jmo

juliekan

01-10-2009, 04:04 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_11417316?source=rss
just to insert a little sick humor

Advertisement on the page with this FLDS article:

Plan your entire wedding in a FEW HOURS!

...found that humorous, since that's all the FLDS brides ever get....

juliekan

01-10-2009, 04:09 PM

juliekan

01-10-2009, 11:50 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_11422915

FLDS offshoot arrests: Canadians' views mixed on polygamy

from the article:

But residents "have allowed Bountiful to exist here because they [fundamentalists] never rub their noses in it and because they [area residents] respect the right of people to practice their religion," said Kettle.

This sounds a lot like a quote from an El Dorado resident in the early days, when they first learned that FLDS were settling near them. I was looking for the article last week but could not find it. The general idea was that people in the area (El Dorado) generally were a live and let live area of Texas. I would agree with that as it is how West Texans like to live; of course then they found out "the rest of the story."

juliekan

01-10-2009, 11:58 PM

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870696,00.html

Raiding the Polygamists: An Eldorado North of the Border

According to Eckersley, the prosecution may have opted to press the charge of polygamy because it is the most winnable strategy. Analysts contend that in the absence of plaintiffs or cooperative witnesses, charges of sexual abuse are unlikely to stick. But Eckersley is no more hopeful at the prospect of a successful polygamy prosecution, saying, "There is a strong sense in the legal community this law won't stand up in court." The case is likely to languish in the legal system for years, allowing Bountiful and its way of life to live on. For Bountiful's defenders, this reality is a blessing from an approving God. But for critics who see this way of life as a mill of sexual abuse, it is a tragedy of biblical proportions.

As I stated earlier, I think it's an uphill battle to win this case. And if Canada (way more liberal than we are) decides polygamy is legal...then what?

juliekan

01-11-2009, 12:04 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/09/texas.polygamy/

The girl has "expressed sadness with not being around her family" to a counselor, but in weekly therapy sessions, she has "slowly been sharing more information about her family and how she sees herself," according to the documents.

What about her dear, dear husband? Does she miss
(the rest of my comment was deleted because it made me gag) :crying:

juliekan

01-11-2009, 12:16 AM

from that woman's blog(:sneaky:), she says the FLDS should appeal their tax appraisal since they can't use the temple since LE "defiled" it. I will say no more, and the ban on using her name, by me, is ON again.

juliekan

01-11-2009, 12:19 AM

does anyone think we should start asking CW for a "sticky"? We've had so many articles, but I hate to put them all on the links thread. Then again, I go looking for references, and can't find them. What do you think?

walton

01-11-2009, 01:06 PM

Julie there are a lot of things going on. I will try to gather some stuff and make sure I put my links on the link thread as well. I've been slacking lately. Sorry.

As far as the sticky.. I never did understand the whole sticky thing. Post a link in the link section and then again on the sticky?

But you can ask Coldwater to sticky a daily maybe? I don't know you guys decide.

For now, I will start a thread for the Canadian news.

juliekan

01-12-2009, 10:47 PM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11436061

Trials for men from polygamous sect set for October
May 13 » Judge first will hear arguments for throwing out evidence seized at YFZ Ranch.
By Brooke Adams

The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 01/12/2009 06:01:42 PM MST

Eldorado, Tex. » A Texas judge has set the first criminal trials for members of a polygamous sect for October.

Raymond M. Jessop and Allen Keate are slated for jury trials beginning Oct. 26 on sexual assault charges. Trials for eight other men indicted by a Schleicher County grand jury will be set one per month, 51st District Judge Barbara Walther decided Monday.

The judge also set May 13 to hear arguments for throwing out evidence seized from the Yearning For Zion Ranch, which authorities raided in April after receiving a call alleging abuse.

The judge acknowledged that seating a second jury in Schleicher County after the initial trial could be difficult. There are 2,500 people in the county's jury pool, she said.

juliekan

01-12-2009, 11:01 PM

Walton, check out the picture at this site.

juliekan

01-13-2009, 01:04 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_11417316
Canada lets FLDS spokesman in - after 4-hour wait, search

The article Walton is talking about is also filed under "LDS news".

If I was LDS, I would complain to the paper.

this article is not listed under polygamy, or LDS, now. at least not that I can find. :chicken:

walton

01-13-2009, 07:34 AM

Walton, check out the picture at this site.

My brain is on overload. I am beginning to hate Mondays.

I wish I could say that the story and the picture cleared up some things but it didn't.

The story talks about Allen Keate and Raymond Jessop.

The picture shows supposedly Willie, Merrill and Wendell leaving the courthouse on Monday. :unsure:

However, I think this picture might have been taken the day that Merrill and Wendell were arrested. The photo doesn't give a date.

Is it Wendell? I just don't think so. I think Merrill and Wendell are safely housed and the Feds know exactly where they are. jmo

After all the stuff in the last month I was thinking that maybe something happened to Brooke and someone else has been putting her stories together.

The CPark event story, the Willie and Mark Shurtleff story, the BillM post on her thread. I was actually going to call there and see if she was still at the Trib. But after looking at Trents blog, I see that she is indeed still there and she is ok.

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/trent/ Brooke was in Texas during this last BJ hearing thing was going on. Check the dates of Trents posts and of course look at his wonderful photos. ( Check out his other work as well. They are the kind of photos that take you there.)

I also think that if Willie had cows anywhere they must be getting fed by someone else because Willie is never working.

To add to the confusion:

Here is a photo of Willie R. Jessop https://secure.deseretnews.com/photo/gallery/story/1,5417,700233581,00.html

And here is a photo of Willie E. Jessop: https://secure.deseretnews.com/photo/gallery/story/1,5417,700233581,00.html

Now..... You tell me.

I think Rick Ross will have to deprogram me when this is all done.

walton

01-13-2009, 09:58 AM

Julie,

Those photos are the same. the link was to the photo album so they all come up under one link.

But Willie E. is one photo and Willie R. is in another.

juliekan

01-13-2009, 07:16 PM

Thank you CW for our july 2 - december thread, maybe we can go back and find some of our "lost" links ! :w00t:

juliekan

01-13-2009, 07:17 PM

Well, it was there a second ago...how do I find it again?

texski

01-13-2009, 07:45 PM

Willie the thug maybe trying to put out a good face to the public, but don't forget he was one of Warren Jeffs enforcers.

the picture i recall first of willie the thug is when he was standing at the gate of their "ranch" with his big belly hanging over his belt and telling the world that the young girls wanted to marry their chosen mates and no one made them do anything they did not want. no young girl in her right mind would want to marry him or any of those other piggy looking old men.
imo

walton

01-13-2009, 10:59 PM

But they got the wrong Willie according to the pictures.

According to the pictures.... The traveling spokesmen never works Willie is pictured as Willie R. Jessop

The person named Willie E. Jessop over on the D. News site is the one listed as the Enforcer.

Warren said Willie E. should be the Prophet. The person speaking for the FLDS is Willie R.

Why do I feel as if Elmer Fudd is about to appear?

Oh wait, I think he did and they have him mixed up with Wendell.

walton

01-14-2009, 02:18 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/action_spec_opinion_seige_not_all_for_naught.html

With an estimated 5,000 polygamists residing on the outskirts of Iron County, it is possible Jeffs would be spotted in the area, particularly since the Cedar City home in question on Friday is owned by one of Jeffs' bodyguards, William R. Jessop. Jessop is among 10 people who've been ordered to appear in court tomorrow in Washington County as a potential material witness in the Arizona grand jury investigation involving FLDS money flow and construction projects. Jessop runs a few construction companies affiliated with the church. If he doesn't appear in court tomorrow, a warrant for his arrest will be issued. So, Friday's siege was not all for naught, and we can thank the local law enforcement agencies' quick actions for that.

Here is one of those old songs that gets into a persons head and just won't go away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCy63R2KKFU

He rocks in the tree-top all a day long
Hoppin' and a-boppin' and a-singin' the song
All the little birds on J-Bird St.
Love to hear the robin goin' tweet tweet tweet

:thumbsup: I do believe Walton gets an A.

walton

01-14-2009, 02:33 AM

So don't you think that changes a lot of things?

Where is the Willie E. Timpson Jessop?

If Willie R. Jessop (thug Willie) is doing the speaking:
A. is he speaking like a Prophet or is he
B. speaking like a thug wanting to do his best to sound like a prophet?

I bet B. That is why a lot of what he said didn't make sense. He walked the walk (kinda) but he couldn't talk the talk. He knew more about construction and digging and thugging than he did the religion or the goings on inside of a Church.

If Willie R. Jessop (thug Willie) is singing, what stuff did the Feds have against him that would make him talk?

And he did an awful lot of talking with Rod Parker at his side. Double Grin here.

Hey Senora if your out there. Thanks. Senora helped me when I first came to these boards. She encouraged me to keep digging. And then to dig some more. FLOWERS here for Senora

walton

01-14-2009, 02:38 AM

The FLDS are unhappy with Schleicher County in Texas. Seems they don't like paying taxes. Willie boy was going BOO HOO to county officials over paying taxes. From news article: "Jessop and other members of the FLDS Church went to the Schleicher County commissioner's court on Monday to complain about the lack of representation the residents of the YFZ Ranch have in county affairs."

Read the rest of article: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705277103,00.html

IMO ole Willie the thug likes getting his mug on the front page of the papers.

From the article: Bradley said the chambers are always open.

"I told them, 'If you've got concerns, let me know and we'll put it on the agenda,"' he said Monday. "I'm definitely willing to listen."

Why are people listening?

This is almost....funny.

I have way expect Willie to jump up and start singing "Walk like an Egyptian" and thousands will follow. I guess that is funny and scary at the same time.

walton

01-14-2009, 08:51 AM

There is a video story on the CNN site titled: Giggly FLDS girl goes back

http://www.cnn.com/video?JSONLINK=/video/bestoftv/2009/01/13/tuchma.

FLDS family members
CNN's Gary Tuchman talks to family members at the FLDS ranch in El Dorado, Texas, about being back together.

In this video it stated that 10 men went to court.

It also showed the courthouse scene with Willie, Merrill and Elmer (Wendell) leaving the courthouse.

This video also mentioned Winston getting arrested "last week". So this isn't an old video.

Gary mentioned them losing their crops.

It said that it was aired Jan.13.

:confused:

Where are the reports of 10 men going to court?

I am giving the A back.

walton

01-14-2009, 09:03 AM

Hey you guys, I am going to take a week off.

Anything comes up please bring a link.

juliekan

01-15-2009, 12:17 PM

Reported to have been at Thursday's court hearing at the Schleicher County Courthouse--Natalie Malonis--with subpoenas for Merril Jessop and Willie Jessop to give depositions in the Teresa Jeffs case, January 23 and 26, respectively.

juliekan

01-15-2009, 12:32 PM

blog entry by a "nmalonis":
"no, malonis is not hoping to put teresa in foster care. that is absurd! who does it serve to attribute the most malignant (not to mention far fetched) motives to someone. temper the hysteria. it is a deposition, not a beheading. malonis is only one of ten ad litems conducting discovery in annette's case.

... perhaps you have forgotten it's cps' trial, not malonis'. malonis and teresa and nine other children and their attorneys have to be there and participate at trial. you have no idea what teresa's position is. do you even know what cps' position is? or annette's? or any of her other nine children? as much as you would like this to be a malonis issue, it isnt."

texski

01-15-2009, 01:18 PM

if merrill jessup and willie jessup tell the truth in their dispositions they would have to be admitting that they married that young woman . ???? legal, take the fifth???

juliekan

01-16-2009, 10:43 AM

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705277892,00.html

Ex-FLDS, nonmembers drafting settlement plan over UEP trust

Nonmembers of the Fundamentalist LDS Church are coming up with their own plans to settle the legal war over the polygamous sect's real estate holdings arm.

They're expected to unveil those plans at a meeting scheduled for 6 p.m. Friday in Centennial Park, Ariz.

"It's mostly a group of people together to show the attorney general's office that there is a large group that is not represented by the FLDS," said Katie Cox, a member of the United Effort Plan Trust's advisory board, which has also crafted its own proposal.

juliekan

01-17-2009, 03:08 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11473877

Non-FLDS residents fear sect may regain control of property trust

Copyright

juliekan

01-17-2009, 03:27 AM

http://iperceive.net/underage-marriage-under-fire-in-saudi-arabia/#more-2797

NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART (Just my warning)

Underage marriage under fire in Saudi Arabia?
by Kurt Schulzke on January 16, 2009

Not legal advice. Copyright 2009 Kurt S. Schulzke. All rights reserved

. .

Actually, the comments after the article are worse.
If anyone is really interested, I can give a cultural view on Saudi Arabia circa 1985, I was there for a few months.

juliekan

01-17-2009, 03:56 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/news_cpac_des_Sundance_Sister_Wife_documentary.htm l

Sundance: 'Sister Wife' takes look at joys, trials of polygamy

The polygamists are coming to Sundance.

A documentary short film about a woman's joys and trials of living in a plural marriage is making its debut at this year's Sundance Film Festival. "Sister Wife" is an 11-minute film about DoriAnn, a fundamentalist woman from Centennial Park, Ariz., who shares a husband with her younger sister.

"Imagine your sweetheart in the kitchen, kissing another woman," DoriAnn says in the film, offering an intimate glimpse into her life as the second wife of a man who is also married to her younger sister.

Director Jill Orschel met DoriAnn (whose last name she would not reveal) in 2005. She initially sought to do a feature-length film in fly-on-the-wall style, documenting the lives of a polygamous family. DoriAnn's husband and sister-wife nixed the idea.

DoriAnn was still game for a film.

"DoriAnn is someone who experiences it fully. She's hating life and embracing it. She still wants to stay there. She wants a third wife to come into the picture, thinking it would bring balance," Orschel said of her film's subject.

She offers at the end of this film this incredible reason why she stays. She feels like when she's able to appreciate her sister wife and her husband and rise above and get past the jealousies — she feels like a goddess," Orschel said. "I just wonder if it's really possible to live that all the time."

And so she's "hating life and embracing it."

I'm headed to links thread, hoping I can remember to find this documentary somewhere, I'd like to see it.
And I'd like to see her free of her pain, but with kids in the mix, ...
I'm guessing it's not gonna happen.

walton

01-19-2009, 10:03 AM

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/01/13/tuchman.polygamy.kids.cnn?iref=videosearch

Couldn't get link to work, here's another:

Thanks Texas-SE

Do you know who the Grandma out in the fields might be? Brooke did a story sometime back and I believe that she is the same lady. I think the title of the story was something like Grandma refuge or something like that. The story is no longer there.

Did you notice that in the one part of the video Merrill, Willie and the other guy had jackets and sweaters on and yet the kids were out in the fields with no shoes. Maybe they snipped two videos together?

Did you read the Eldorado Success? Did you see the photo with Brooke leaning into? Well, I know now that she is ok. Wonder what Willie and his group were talking about that held everyones attention.

If anyone finds a picture of that lady from Brookes story let me know. I kinda think that it was around the time they went to Westcliffe, Colo.

walton

01-19-2009, 10:10 AM

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/

Done deal. I am bringing HBO back into the home.

lotty

01-20-2009, 12:27 PM

http://www.hbo.com/biglove/

Done deal. I am bringing HBO back into the home.

I enjoy watching Big Love...I have read people's opinions that it glamourizes polygamy. I don't think so, the more I watch, the more I see something I would want no part of. I seldom see the "family" as happy. JMO

lotty

01-20-2009, 12:51 PM

I didn't see this posted so I thought I would put it up.

http://www.kansascity.com/238/story/988458.html
Carolyn Jessop seizes opportunity to leave polygamist sect
By EDWARD M. EVELD
The Kansas City Star

Q. Just to be clear, life in the FLDS was not something you chose, right?

A. The FLDS would be incredibly suspicious of anyone who wants to join. I was born into the sixth generation of polygamy. The FLDS is a way of life. The community I grew up in was incredibly isolated. There’s no frame of reference for challenging anything you’re taught.

walton

01-21-2009, 12:54 AM

I was out in google land looking for something and of course I got sidetracked but look at this:

http://www.daylife.com/words/Willie_Jessop

Zoom in on the photo of Willie shaking hands with the many in Utah.

:scared:

Willie is or isn't the Prophet? Check the faces of those watching Willie.

How can this be?

If this Willie was the thug, that had the guns and was considered the "mover" how could these people look at him to be the Prophet?

This Willie said things that didn't even make sense when talking about their own religion.

Wow!!

How does one deprogram a whole community?

walton

01-21-2009, 01:00 AM

I found out who the Grandma was in the video. :)

juliekan

01-21-2009, 04:36 PM

juliekan

01-22-2009, 02:18 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705279304,00.html

U.S. Supreme Court: Police are protected from lawsuits

The U.S. Supreme Court has sided with police officers who raided a suspected drug dealer's home in Millard County and seized evidence without a warrant and were later sued by the man for financial damages because he contends they violated his Fourth Amendment constitutional right against unreasonable search and seizure.

The high court ruled that the police did have governmental immunity against civil lawsuits.

Could this ruling work in Texas?

walton

01-22-2009, 08:26 AM

If Polygamy were to become legal how would that work with our current tax laws?

For example: Polygamist Andy is said to have over 80 wives and 100 children. Only 20 of those wives have incomes from jobs outside the home.
Andy has a job hauling honey bees from state to state and earns xxx amount of dollars.
With all combined incomes it is still hardly enough to feed his growing family. Would they be eligible for the earned income tax breaks?

Would they be eligible for food stamps and health care? Housing assistance? Fuel assistance?

I wonder what Bruce Wisan would have to say about the mess legalizing polygamy would be for the tax man. :scared:

I wonder if Utah and Arizona has the time and resources to follow thru to monitor future tax issues.

Wow!! what a mess

Polygamy is rarely ever about just consenting adults. jmo

juliekan

01-22-2009, 02:47 PM

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/22/breaking-news-depositions-scheduled-for-flds/
BREAKING NEWS: Depositions scheduled for FLDS officials

A top leader of the YFZ Ranch and the most public defender of the polygamous sect housed there have been subpoenaed and will be deposed beginning Friday in Schleicher County.

Lawyer Natalie Malonis, the lightning-rod attorney for imprisoned sect leader Warren Jeffs' now-17-year-old daughter, has subpoenaed:

* Merril Jessop, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints elder believed to have run the ranch since Jeffs was imprisoned

* Willie Jessop, a sect member who has served as its spokesman since a state raid in April

The depositions - scheduled for Friday and Monday - were confirmed by the Tom Green County District Clerk's Office. Copies of the subpoenas and subsequent motions to quash them, rejected Wednesday by 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, were not immediately available

texski

01-22-2009, 08:20 PM

walton

01-23-2009, 06:00 AM

this mess is getting more and more interesting. so glad to hear that merrill and willie are going to court, if only for questions. if you cant take a big bite, just keep nibbling away at them.
has anyone here read the book that was on the poster earlier???? and do you know if it was for real ? i mean, is there proof that the story is true? i got burned a few times before on so call true stories, not any on this board. and this one sounded way out there. not putting anyone down, just asking for more info if possible.

At a quick glance I couldn't find it listed at Barnes and Noble (that is where I normally buy my books) but I did look over at Amazon and it has a spot where you can read the reviews and check the inside of the book. It does look interesting. There is a spot where you can read the book on line. Has anyone done that?

Texski after following the stories about the FLDS and other groups I have to think that a lot of the stories might be thought of as "way out there". But wouldn't you know that is what Shurtleff and so many others thought about some of the stories they were told. Sad, isn't it?

I think almost everyone has a story within. I've never written anything but I would think that it might be hard for some and easier for others. I am one of those that prefers to read rather than write.

True? who knows for sure? In this case some names where mentioned that I recognize and other names I didn't... even after doing the google. But after reading some news articles over the last two years I question how much of what I am reading is actually true.

I have to say I have become very skeptical of the things I read lately. And that angers me. Some of these stories have taken away the fun part of reading for me. :( I question almost everything I read lately.

Check the link thread and see how many links I've provided since Warrens sentencing. And even fewer since his little trip to Arizona. One story can be told 5 different ways. One picture can be used in many different stories with a different lean. One journalist and one photographer can make a new story with the click of a camera and a pencil with an eraser.

Closed courthouse doors can provide privacy and open doors for nothing but speculation. In some situations the truth may never be told, nor no matter how much knocking one does the doors may never open.

As far as the Jessops depositions..... I am sure we will never know what is actually said.

walton

01-23-2009, 06:15 AM

jmo[/QUOTE]

I sure hope Polygamy doesn't become legal. Maybe in 50-100 years it might make sense. But the system as we have right now is so messed up that there is no room for added pressures on the tax system or the tax payer.

Our health care system right now is so out of whack that it /we can not afford health care for the little Grandma down the road let alone the man with 50 wives and 100 kids. Who would decide?

I know two ladies that are diabetic and they struggle each and every month trying to find the dollars for their medication. What happens if they don't have the monies? They stretch that medication. I've seen what happens after they do that and it is damn scary.

texski

01-23-2009, 12:14 PM

walton

01-24-2009, 07:28 AM

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/features/story/FLDS-POLYGAMY-DAN-FISCHER-DIVERSITY-FOUNDATION/WGkjijnhTkuSyo1QxisfZA.cspx

This link works when I did the preview thing. Brent Hunsaker does a piece about Dr. Fischer and the kids. Check out the video.

By the numbers, the Diversity Foundation has helped 13 students graduate from high school and 51 others pass their general educational development (GED) test. Now it’s supporting 37 students in college. And the foundation is helping more than boys. Just over half (19) of its college students are young women who have also been kicked out or left on their own.

walton

01-24-2009, 07:36 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705279928,00.html

LeBaron, now 43, is wanted in connection with four murders in 1988 that were carried out simultaneously in the name of her father, polygamist leader Ervil LeBaron. She is the last of the LeBaron children wanted in the slayings.

In 2007, a man met her in Honduras where she was doing "missionary work," agents said, revealing to the Deseret News on Friday that she was not alone.

"She had a son," Dunlap said. "That's something we hadn't known before."

LeBaron's child would be about 12 now. That information came from the same man who provided a recent photograph of LeBaron to the FBI. Tips that continue to trickle in have not panned out, Dunlap said, but the FBI believes LeBaron is still in Latin America. She is fluent in both English and Spanish and has worked in the past as a teacher.

Ben throws this out there every so often. I wonder if he doesn't have some inside info???

walton

01-24-2009, 07:42 AM

Texas-SE

Randy wrote a GREAT editorial a week or so ago do you know how or if a person can post a link to that editorial?

It was right after Willie was yipping about the FLDS being picked for jury duty. And Willie was wanting their (FLDS) tax dollars to be used for something else besides enforcing the laws against certain alleged lawbreakers.

Thanks

walton

01-24-2009, 07:49 AM

OKAY, daughters of zion: a familys conversion to polygamy, i will order it and read it with hope that it may provide some insight into these people. i grew up near the texas/mexican border and also know some americans who have retired in mexico so i am a little familiar of how outsiders live there.
i have spent 16.00 on a lot of useless things in the past and if this is another, too bad for me.
i have a sister in texas who could not afford her blood pressure pills and was cutting them in half and we did not know. she was too ashamed to tell anyone and tried for the free help and was told her income was 10.00 a month over where she could get help. luckily we found out about it from a neighbor and have taken care of her after being told she did not want charity. but it really shows to me the difference between some other americans and the polys. they will take and take and laugh at us for being so gullible.

Texski are these two connected?
http://www.ladiesministries.org/daughters_of_zion.asp

Who we are . . . Daughters of Zion is made up of women worldwide, who meet on the first Monday of each month to pray focused prayer for the children of the local church community.
Our Mission . . . We are committed to the spiritual preservation of this generation and beyond and the spiritual restoration of previous generations.
Our Need . . . Committed women who will join together on the first Monday of each month and pray focused prayer for their children and the children of the local church and community.

http://www.dzec.org/
DZEC is a ministry for single motherhood, womanhood and rights of passage from girlhood to womanhood. Women are natural nurturers and lose themselves while taking care of others. Most significant we arrests domestic violence which has been polarized as just physical. Domestic violence is bondage and without the physical ropes and ties, it binds you up emotionally, psychologically and spiritually. DZEC gives you awareness that you can bypass these issues. We empower women of all backgrounds and help them to become the women they were created to be.

Our Mission:

The purpose/mission of DZEC is to empower women by creating avenues of hope for those who are and have been broken, bruised and secretly hurting; enabling them to see that there is a way out. DZEC stands for a way out! It paves the way for women and assures them that they can heal.

Our Goal:
Our goal is to restore hope and bring healing to women who have been afflicted and broken.

:confused:

walton

01-26-2009, 12:53 AM

It's not on active website, it was part of pdf file e-mailed to subscribers to Eldorado Success. You would have to get R. Mankin to send you copy of opinion piece as text file which you could cut and paste to message board. Remember this is copyrighted material, so Mankins permission to post article on open message board might be difficult to obtain.

I still get the Success that is how I knew about the article. I'll write to Randy and ask him if he'd like to share. I've been good about the copyrighted things ever since someone explained that too me.

It was good though wasn't it?

juliekan

01-26-2009, 01:42 AM

I still get the Success that is how I knew about the article. I'll write to Randy and ask him if he'd like to share. I've been good about the copyrighted things ever since someone explained that too me.

It was good though wasn't it?

Is it Randy Mankin? Do I remember that right? And I don't understand the whole copyright thing, so if you can send me something to explain it, that would be a big help.:)

walton

01-26-2009, 09:52 AM

Is it Randy Mankin? Do I remember that right? And I don't understand the whole copyright thing, so if you can send me something to explain it, that would be a big help.:)

Yes it is Randy Mankin. And it was an awesome piece. imo I wrote to him and asked him if he'd like to share. I gave him the link to this site if he so chooses. No matter his response I will respect his decision.

Here is what Coldwater has posted for help concerning copyrights.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=146062

And further into the thread you will find this: http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/cybrscen.htm

From what I understand you can post links to back up your stories and may use a paragraph or two to define the link.

The whole copyright thing is so others can't take credit for another persons work. Which makes sense.

juliekan

01-26-2009, 04:28 PM

http://iperceive.net/merril-jessop-takes-the-5th-does-teresa-jeffs-have-a-child/#more-2844

This blog has excerpts from Merrill's deposition.

Does Teresa Jeffs have a child??

walton

01-26-2009, 08:00 PM

Eldorado Success which is found here: http://www.myeldorado.net/

Randy Mankin gave me permission to post this editorial that was first printed in the Eldorado Success on Jan.15, 2009

This article is copyrighted. The little thing is at the bottom.

I personally think it is an awesome piece. Randy if your reading thank you bunches!!

Willie Jessop wants to be a good neighbor

Willie Jessop appeared Monday at the Schleicher County Commissioners Court to say that the residents at the YFZ Ranch just want to be good neighbors and asked the commissioners to help him make that happen.

First of all, Jessop says he wants representation on local governing bodies. He points to the fact that the YFZ Ranch pays lots of taxes and refers to the Revolutionary War mantra of taxation without representation.

Jessop also wants representation on juries and questions the method by which jury pools are selected in Schleicher County.

At one point he suggested jurors are picked from the phone book.

Thirdly he notes that there are a lot of talented people at the YFZ Ranch, like doctors and RNs who could share their expertise if called upon.

Fourthly, Jessop says he doesn’t want the tax dollars paid in by the YFZ Ranch to be used against the people at the YFZ. His reference here is to the local Sheriff’s Department.

And, finally, he says the folks at the YFZ Ranch are not all criminals or out to soak the government, at which time he referred to a 2004 article in the Success about the practice of “Bleeding the Beast.”

Well, lets take his points one at a time. First of all, the folks at the YFZ Ranch don’t pay that much in taxes, not if you spread the $550,000 tax bill among the six hundred or so folks who were there at the time of the April 3rd raid. That comes to less than a $1,000 per person, and at that rate, maybe I’m the one that’s overtaxed and under represented.

Besides, you can’t get elected to a local board if you don’t register to vote then file to run for office. So, there’s that.

Secondly, most people I know try to get out of jury duty. Still, it’s not hard to be picked for a jury. You just have to register to vote so that your name shows up in the jury wheel from which potential jurors are drawn at random. But since the good folks at the YFZ didn’t register to vote until recently, they haven’t had the opportunity to be picked. Don’t worry, that time will come.

Thirdly, I doubt if anyone wants a doctor under indictment for failure to report abuse to be giving advice about how to run a hospital or a clinic.

Fourthly, I don’t want my tax dollars used to enforce laws that I disagree with — laws like speed limits and seat belts. But the government does it anyway. And, they use those laws against me all the time...like every time I get a traffic ticket.

Finally, I don’t know anyone who thinks all the folks at the YFZ Ranch are criminals. I certainly don’t, and never have. In fact, I think most of them are honest and hard working people who have been poorly served by their leaders.

As for the article we printed here on Bleeding the Beast, anyone who reads it, and I doubt Willie Jessop has, will note that we cite the sources for our information and we asked Warren Jeffs and/or any of his followers at the YFZ Ranch for their input...input that we are still waiting to receive.

As I said before, the people at the YFZ Ranch have been poorly served by their leaders. It doesn’t appear that Willie Jessop is going to be the one to turn that around.

Copyright, 2009 Masked Rider Publishing, Inc.

walton

01-26-2009, 08:10 PM

I love Texas!!

Hey Grammy I bet this got your blood moving huh? Share that with the hubby and he will think that you and I have taken over. lol

Randy says it like it is. Just straight up. Can't find any hidden meanings in his writings.

Again thanks Randy.

juliekan

01-26-2009, 09:54 PM

juliekan

01-26-2009, 10:00 PM

Oh BTW, Flora's deposition is the 28th. I read on a blog that Doran and the Texas Rangers deposition contents were made public. Does anyone know where? I'll look later and see if I can find it.

walton

01-27-2009, 02:08 AM

http://iperceive.net/merril-jessop-takes-the-5th-does-teresa-jeffs-have-a-child/#more-2844

This blog has excerpts from Merrill's deposition.

Does Teresa Jeffs have a child??

I am confused.

This guy Kurt is friends with Natalie? She shares with him some info and he posts it on the internet? Or she knows Kurt real well and she knows he will put it on the internet?

Why?

So... if there were reporters in the courtroom where the heck are the stories? There is nothing out there. They could be doing a role playing wanna see how the story spins on a blog thing.

Merrill pleading the 5th wouldn't surprise me. He wouldn't be able to answer one question without incriminating himself to follow up questions.

Does Teresa Jeffs have a child? Has it been confirmed that Teresa Jeffs is indeed Warren Jeffs daughter?

Is Merrianne Jessop indeed Merrill Jessops daughter?

Does anyone remember Warrens jailhouse confession?
sister/daughter daughter/sister

Does anyone remember Twin Peaks the series from the 80's?

:ohmy:

walton

01-27-2009, 02:16 AM

:w00t: Thanks so much to Randy Mankin for this great article. I felt my blood pressure starting to rise at the beginning of the article, and started trying to prepare my rebuttal...didn't need to, Mr. Mankin did it much better than I.

How ignorant is Willie J. to think jurors are picked from the phone book? And taxation without representation? He wants people who are breaking the laws of Texas to be protected by the government who has enacted those laws?

They've got representation.....by their lawyers LOL.

That is how I was when I first read this. I was getting all hot headed and then the further I read the calmer I got.

Randy Mankin put into words what I couldn't. :) Cool huh? This is the difference between those that write and those that read. He's right though. All the way down the list.

off topic just a bit here: Julie and Grammy if you get a chance to read this paper you would find some of the other articles (if not all) interesting. Heck I even read the back page just cuz I am nosey.

juliekan

01-27-2009, 12:31 PM

http://iperceive.net/deposition-doings-in-san-angelo-willie-jessop-takes-the-5th/#more-2854

update on the depositions yesterday

walton

01-28-2009, 07:57 AM

http://iperceive.net/deposition-doings-in-san-angelo-willie-jessop-takes-the-5th/#more-2854

update on the depositions yesterday

So what do you make of it Julie? The whole thing has me a bit confused.

Did you see that there is a poster over there also named Julie?

Did you also see that Texasbluesman is back? :)

I have most the weekend off, I am going to do some major reading over there.

walton

01-28-2009, 08:12 AM

With all the taking the 5th, Willie & Merril are using Carolyn Jessop to spin their cause. From article: ""It just makes me want to laugh," said Betty, 19, shaking her head.

Besides Carolyn herself, the character in Escape that most intrigues readers is Betty -- the second of Carolyn's eight children with FLDS bishop Merril Jessop."

Read the rest: http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11559735

IMO the court in Texas should put Betty on the stand since she wants to speak publicly. I'm sure she knows about her father Merril's involvment with Warren Jeffs and so called "marriage" to 12 year old. Bet she knows quite a bit about the inner workings of FLDS & YFZ. She wants to write a book, fine, but lets see if she will talk on record.:tonguewag:

Do you remember when Elisa Wahl had to testify with all those from the FLDS sitting in front of her? Not only Warren Jeffs but each and every person that NEVER took the time or effort to protect her.

No offense to Betty but she appears to be about as mature as did that little Merrianne that was/is married to Warren.

How independent she is from the rest huh? Not.

A book she wrote on her own? ok. With all the hens in the background with any and every interview she does, something tells me that those we see and don't see have had some type of input with this girls bookwriting. She wrote the truth as she knows it? What truth has she been told?

I won't be buying the book.

juliekan

01-28-2009, 08:25 AM

So what do you make of it Julie? The whole thing has me a bit confused.

Did you see that there is a poster over there also named Julie?

Did you also see that Texasbluesman is back? :)

I have most the weekend off, I am going to do some major reading over there.

I find it odd that Willie will not even say if one of his children is a subject of a custody suit. Wouldn't that be part of a public record?

That Julie over there is obviously not me, unless I've gone to the dark side, LOL. And yes, Tex said he's back now that college football is over...

walton

01-28-2009, 08:57 AM

I find it odd that Willie will not even say if one of his children is a subject of a custody suit. Wouldn't that be part of a public record?

That Julie over there is obviously not me, unless I've gone to the dark side, LOL. And yes, Tex said he's back now that college football is over...

Public Record? Who would know? Was Merrill one of the fathers that stood up and offered his DNA to claim his children?

Do you remember when this one girl was hiding her baby from the courts? They then locked down the courthouse and not much more was said. I do believe Willie was in the building.

If this whole thing would be about farm $$$ land in Utah and Arizona something tells me that these two men would jump up and lay claim real fast.
jmo

juliekan

01-28-2009, 09:15 AM

walton

01-28-2009, 10:03 AM

I saw the info Brooke had about Floras book. I wanted to check out Floras book when I first read she was writing one. I like Flora. And I really like Floras personality and drive.

The Erickson that is mentioned in her book is a lady that helps with the Hope org. I believe. That isn't the same rericson that has been driving me crazy the last how many months. I don't know who she is. Or why rericson is so involved.

I read some of Floras book online lastnight. The parts where they let the reader get a taste and then Bam it ends and you buy or don't buy.

I am still hoping that someone comes out with a series of books and tells all. I would put money up front for those. Yup. Bribery.

Can I get in trouble for that? If I could get into trouble for saying that then I take it back out loud. But I am still thinking it. Can't get into trouble for thinking something can we?

Gotta go to work. See you guys later.

juliekan

01-28-2009, 03:00 PM

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/28/breaking-news-flds-leader-pleaded-fifth-267/

BREAKING NEWS: FLDS leader pleaded Fifth 267 times
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)
Originally published 11:36 a.m., January 28, 2009
Updated 12:36 p.m., January 28, 2009

Jessop, a top leader of the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints that runs the Schleicher County ranch, invoked the Fifth Amendment 267 times on questions as minor as whether he drives a car and as significant as whether his now-14-year-old daughter was involved in a sexual relationship with sect leader Warren Jeffs.

Lots more in this article. I believe Merril and his attorney are stretching the 5th amendment use...

texski

01-28-2009, 03:34 PM

the poor poor man says he cannot answer the question, do you drive a car, because he cannot see. this is a good reason?? i think he is making a mockery out of the process.

juliekan

01-28-2009, 03:34 PM

http://iperceive.net/deposition-doings-in-san-angelo-willie-jessop-takes-the-5th/#comments

comment by kbp 01.28.09 at 3:13 pm post #93 titled Devil's Advocate

good points made here regarding the answers given/not given in the deposition. this poster is pro-FLDS, but plays devil's advocate well. of course since of agree with the devil's advocate point of view, this poster would consider me an idiot.

juliekan

01-28-2009, 03:36 PM

the poor poor man says he cannot answer the question, do you drive a car, because he cannot see. this is a good reason?? i think he is making a mockery out of the process.

just makes him sound like an onery old man, even his attorney didn't seem to understand what he was talking about :laugh:

juliekan

01-28-2009, 03:52 PM

and that Tony Alamo was also charged with Mann Act violations. at least the Feds have had some recent "practice" with this....look out Willie and Merril and the boys....

lotty

01-28-2009, 06:02 PM

walton

01-28-2009, 07:22 PM

http://media.gosanangelo.com/sast/content/static/Merril_Jessop_depo.pdf

I can't even begin to tell all of you how great this feels bringing a link to court transcripts. Real court transcripts. No guessing. No speculation.

There has been wayyyy to much said behind closed doors concerning the trials and errors of Utah and Arizona. Thank you Texas for keeping the doors open.

Even if they are words saying they are pleading the 5th. We at least know the questions are being asked. We know that they are given the chance to respond. We know that they are given the chance like anyone else to stand up for what they believe.

Thanks gosanangelo for sharing. Thank you Texas for doing it right.

:smile:

walton

01-28-2009, 07:38 PM

Ole Warren Jeffs lawyers are trying to get evidence thrown out from YFZ raid, but IMO a Arizona state judge has no authority in Texas. No matter what Arizona judge rules, Texas LE will use the evidence in Texas courts. From news article: "An Arizona judge may end up ruling on whether evidence seized by law enforcement officers during the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch is legal."

See: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705280896,00.html

IMO the Arizona judge has no authority in Texas, it's up to Texas courts to rule on legality of evidence.

As of right now there is only one comment made on this article. But it has me laughing.

From the link:In an order released Wednesday, Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven Conn denied a state request for arguments on whether FLDS leader Warren Jeffs should even be allowed to have a hearing to suppress evidence.

"The state's attempt to deny defendant his right to an evidentiary hearing is yet another example of the 'Texas two step' previously referred to by the defendant," Jeffs' attorneys, Michael Piccarreta and Richard Wright, wrote in court documents filed in a Kingman, Ariz., court earlier this month.

I wonder how the stress level is in Utah and Arizona? I bet that there is an echo of would'a, should'a, and could'a's being said. lol

http://www.ehow.com/how_4693211_pick-up-broken-glass-splinters.html

A helpful hint page on how to pick up broken glass. For those that live in those big fancy glass houses that are about to crumble.

walton

01-28-2009, 10:26 PM

I just read it again.

Wow!! :thumbsup: Natalie M. She is very good. Very good.

Without many questions being answered, she got some answers.

Texski and Granny if we ever get into any trouble I want this lady to help us.

And every bit of it done in a courtroom. A courtroom with open doors.

I am almost scared to ask any questions. I don't want to jinx anything.

But boy this feels good.

Keep them doors open Texas. :thumbsup:

walton

01-29-2009, 12:20 AM

First off keep in mind that Merrill Jessop let the women do the talking. That had to have been very difficult for him. :D

I don't want to take anything away from the transcripts. But anyone that has been following this story will appreciate just the chance to read the transcripts. And boy do I.

I will give you a little.

Name
Date of Birth
Address
Does he drive?
Education
Does he wear glasses?

I just found out that there is a little stinky poo going on about how this was "leaked" to the press.

These cases have been heard behind closed doors for so damn long that they aren't even sure what really is suppose to go on in a courtroom.

Reality is tap tapping on those hiding behind closed doors.

juliekan

01-29-2009, 01:36 AM

Ole Warren Jeffs lawyers are trying to get evidence thrown out from YFZ raid, but IMO a Arizona state judge has no authority in Texas. No matter what Arizona judge rules, Texas LE will use the evidence in Texas courts. From news article: "An Arizona judge may end up ruling on whether evidence seized by law enforcement officers during the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch is legal."

See: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705280896,00.html

IMO the Arizona judge has no authority in Texas, it's up to Texas courts to rule on legality of evidence.

I just got home and am overwhelmed with the posts! Must go to bed, but Texas-SE, lotty, grammy, walton, I remember asking earlier on this thread if AZ could "set a precedent" by ruling the YFZ raid evidence inadmissable. Sounds crazy to me, but I'm no lawyer.

Walton, I wonder if Paul Anthony had to offer up a kidney to get them to buy a transcript, :laugh:, glad they did, maybe he's seen the activity on other sites to get it. It's killin' me I gotta go to bed instead of read....maybe I'll be up again tonight as I have been for 3 nights, now. Hoping for sleep and early rising.

Or at least tonight, I'll have something to read.....

walton

01-29-2009, 08:38 AM

Today is a very good day for a news reader.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/29/ranch-head-pleads-5th-267-times/

A whole lotta Wow!!! :smile:

I think the internet is just about the neatest thing that has come into my life.

I remember as a kid waiting for the newspaper to be delivered to our house. Each day a person could unfold a piece of paper and read what was going on in the area if not the world. The smell of the paper and the ink meant something fresh, something real and something new.

Today, I can almost smell that smell. Tis a very good day.

Sometimes my words aren't said in the way that my thoughts mean them and I hope I worded that right but this was very much meant as a compliment.

juliekan

01-29-2009, 02:15 PM

juliekan

01-29-2009, 02:44 PM

BREAKING NEWS: Willie Jessop invokes 5th more than 100 times in deposition

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/jan/29/breaking-news-willie-jessop-invokes-5th-more-100/

walton

01-29-2009, 09:16 PM

There is a list of questions answered and lists of questions not answered here, compiled by this site, from the deposition. Articles will be dated January 29,2009.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

#158. Within the last month have you traveled to St. George, Utah, to meet with any representative of the Attorney General's Office of Utah?

You know, I wasn't really expecting to get anything out of these depositions. But I am learning. I like how she just kept on asking.

I was smiling all day. Some people asked what I was so smiley about and all I could say was TEXAS!

I called the Go San Angelo papers and left a message of thanks. Something tells me their phones might have been quite busy.

Dang, this is nice.

Know what is really crazy? Merrill is actually one of the "little fishies".

I am betting there will be a Big Fish Fry coming soon. :biggrin:

walton

01-29-2009, 09:26 PM

Walton
On brooke's blog, she talks about Flora's new book. she said the index to the book is online, and that the book will cover certain topics and people. on the list of people, she lists R. Erickson.....hmmmmmm.

Here is an article about Rowenna Erickson

http://www.childpro.org/1998%20medai/1998%20media%2005.htm

This was in 2005 but I saw a piece after the raid where she was talking about Texas doing it the right way.

The woman who posts over at the Trib is Regina Erickson. Again I am not sure what Regina Ericksons role in all this might be.

walton

01-29-2009, 09:33 PM

Is this the Susanna Barlow that was mentioned?

SUSANNA BARLOW is the 23rd child of 46 children, the quintessential middle child. Growing up in a fundamentalist religious home shaped her life, her values, and her views on literally everything. Although she is no longer affiliated with any polygamous group on a religious level she is surrounded by family and friends who are practicing polygamists.

Please read the following post on her blog. It is titled what is Normal

http://susannabarlow.com/blog/?page_id=28

texski

01-29-2009, 11:57 PM

juliekan

01-30-2009, 12:30 AM

Here is an article about Rowenna Erickson

http://www.childpro.org/1998%20medai/1998%20media%2005.htm

This was in 2005 but I saw a piece after the raid where she was talking about Texas doing it the right way.

from the article:
Often the message is a double-edged sword. Members are told they should never ever lie, unless they are asked about their families.

"It's a little teeny narrow path and if you step off it once you're going to hell," the 35-year-old said. "They told me I was going to hell for throwing snowballs and not confessing to my teacher but I'd also go to hell if I told the teacher about our family. You can't win either way."

what a life!

walton

01-30-2009, 10:26 AM

the texas two step is a really cute dance step, slow, quick quick. and you put in your fancy stuff in the quick quick part.
hopefully texas will be going slow now and we will see the quick quick when we get them into a trial.
i also know there are bigger fish than merrill, but i have a special interest in him because of the book escape. i feel that i know him and his nasty little tricks on women that he claimed to love.

:biggrin: Your such a lovable nut!

only fitting. In Texas it is the Texas two step and in Utah and Arizona it is the Curley Shuffle.

One of the things that was mentioned in the transcripts was that he didn't have his glasses with him. He is 72 years old and I am sure he does need glasses. A few years ago a picture was taken of I think Doran and another guy serving papers to the Ranch. Guess who didn't have his glasses on but was looking at the papers? yup, Merrill.

One of the reasons Natalie might have been asking him about his driving habits is that at age 72 he might or might not have his drivers license. Maybe he has been driving without one. And if that were the case that would put some restrictions on the jobs that he has/will have to provide for his children. IMO a legit question.

She also asked him about providing food for his family. He talked about the food "food storehouse". Another legit question. I might have followed it up with who provides the food for the "food storehouse"?
With a compound with over 400 some children my bet that "food storehouse" must be quite big. I also remember reading that suppliers were met at the gate. Maybe other semi-trucks were allowed inside the compound. Or they might have done a lot of shopping inside of Eldorado. Do you think?

Wasn't Willie just a yipping about how they have fell on tough times with the kids and women away? I just bet those poor ol' boys just were scrambling for someone to cook for them.

Now, Merrill wasn't required to stay within the state of Texas but was allowed to come and go as he pleased due to "working to provide for his family". So exactly what did he list as his occupation when he was brought into the courthouse/jail the time he had his picture taken?

Natalie Malonis did a mighty fine job.

walton

01-30-2009, 10:32 AM

from the article:
Often the message is a double-edged sword. Members are told they should never ever lie, unless they are asked about their families.

"It's a little teeny narrow path and if you step off it once you're going to hell," the 35-year-old said. "They told me I was going to hell for throwing snowballs and not confessing to my teacher but I'd also go to hell if I told the teacher about our family. You can't win either way."

what a life!

Sad isn't it?

walton

01-30-2009, 10:42 AM

Who is Clay Jessop?

Who is Ernest Jessop?

Where is David Jeffs?

Where is Jim Allred?

Johnny Beagley Construction? <<<< Is this name familiar to anyone? My eyes were getting fuzzy and I began to see little dots.

How about Connie S. Smart? Donald R. Smart?

I'd have to go back and look but I thought it was mentioned that he went to go see Warren a month ago. So..... what was going on about a month ago that Merrill had to take a long trip back? Meeting of the minds? I take that back. A stroll in the park? I take that back. Work on a project?

I wonder how Naomi has been doing with her hubby locked up and her dad out and about? What ever happened to charges brought against her for Road trippin with Warren?

walton

01-30-2009, 07:50 PM

Hey Grammy this is a little off topic but didn't you guys get a lot of snow this year? We did. Some extra monies had to be used for clearing snow. Would that be the case here? What is that old saying about not being able to see the forest due to all the trees?

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11589915

An understaffed office charged with defending Utah's interests in public-lands matters needs to do more to wrestle road ownership away from the federal government, a state audit has found.

The audit, released to a legislative committee Friday morning, says deficient management structure, lack of clear lines of authority and poor cost-accounting need fixing.

walton

01-30-2009, 10:13 PM

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy439.html

A federal judge in Arizona ordered two Colorado City men held on civil contempt-of-court charges after they refused to testify before a grand jury.

U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton on Friday sent James R. Allred and Mica S. Barlow, members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, to the Central Arizona Detention Center in Florence. No bail is set in such cases.

Federal and state authorities are investigating FLDS members' alleged roles in property theft, sex crimes and concealing Warren Jeffs, the fugitive leader of the polygamous sect.

However, it is unknown what the grand jury that summoned Allred and Barlow is specifically exploring, since its proceedings are secret.

Barlow, 37, is a deputy town marshal for Colorado City and the adjoining town of Hildale, Utah. Allred, 58, is the community's assistant postmaster and FLDS church official.

In that role, Allred has led church meetings, collected tithes and helped deliver edicts to men Jeffs has ousted from the church. He also is the father of two men who have figured prominently in the hunt for Jeffs, who is wanted on several felony charges in Utah and Arizona.

Those sons are Nathaniel Allred, a church courier, and David Allred, a top Jeffs adviser who helped set up new FLDS enclaves in Texas, Colorado and South Dakota.

walton

01-30-2009, 10:29 PM

Another look at the boys.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700236989,00.html Check out the four photos.

Willie Timpson Jessop

Wendell Nielsen

Lyle Jeffs

Warren Jeffs

Who put Willie R Jessop in charge? Maybe Rod Parker got a little mixed up when he was standing alongside thug Willie. Do you suppose?

So.... along with the many others that are missing where in the heck is the other Willie?

Maybe Rod Parker knows.

walton

01-30-2009, 10:37 PM

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy116.html

Parker also pointed out that Holm did not pay taxes for many years and was on probation for child abuse before 2000.

Parker hinted of violence and alcoholism in the Holm household and said these were the reasons for the Holms' ex-communication, not their refusal of their daughter's marriage.

During cross-examination, the Holms' attorney, George McKay of Phoenix, asked Holm how much time and money he put into the six-bedroom, 5,000-square foot home he built mostly by himself.

Holm testified that about 95 percent of the building materials he bought himself. He also said he traded his $3,000 mobile home to buy building materials to start the home.

Holm also testified that when his wife let the church leaders know in January 2000 that she objected to Nicole's marriage, Holm said they probably would be evicted.

Ten minutes after Lenore Holm refused her daughter's marriage, Warren Jeffs, the son of Rulon Jeffs, then the church's leader, called Holm and told him he lost his priesthood, had allowed his wife to make decisions, that he was no longer a member of the church and to move off the property, Milton Holm testified.

Warren Jeffs told Holm that his father, Rulon Jeffs, had been displeased by Lenore Holm's decision.

The next witness to take the stand for the plaintiffs was Leroy Jeffs, one of the trustees of UEP, who explained UEP's function.

"It is based on faithfulness to the church," Jeffs said. "If someone violates the commandments or don't support the leaders, anyone's stewardship can be taken away."

"Are Milton and Lenore Holm members of the church?" Parker asked.

"My understanding, they are not," Jeffs said.

Upon cross-examination, McKay asked Jeffs whether the church is subject to the laws of Arizona, to which Jeffs said yes.

"Are you aware that polygamy is against the law in Arizona?" McKay asked.

After an objection from Parker, Jeffs answered yes.

I wonder if Parker used his expertise to help stop underage marriages. Do you think? Do you think that Parker shared any insight with Shurtleffs office?

walton

01-30-2009, 10:45 PM

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy493.html
written in 2006

"I would say if anybody knew, Leroy knew," said Richard Holm, an excommunicated church member who continues to live in Hildale. "He would also know more about Warren's motives than anybody else."

But since April 18, Leroy Jeffs has been sitting in the Central Arizona Detention Facility in Florence, prison officials said Friday.

It could not immediately be determined if Leroy Jeffs has a lawyer.

Earlier this year, authorities located Leroy Jeffs living in Oklahoma and served him with a grand jury subpoena. But he refused to testify and was arrested on civil contempt of court charges, sources familiar with the investigation told The Associated Press.

texski

01-30-2009, 11:15 PM

this is beginning to be the posting of the decade. people are being put in jail. thank you for posting, thank you for arresting them. nibble, nibble, nibble, on our way to the big fish.

walton

01-31-2009, 01:19 AM

I just now finished watching an episode of Big Love.

I forgot to tell my husband that I had the HBO hooked up again so he was surprised when I came and asked to watch tv.

He asked why? and I told him that I had heard that they were doing a more true to life story on Big Love.

He told me that is why I had HBO taken out in the first place. Because of Big Love and he left the room.

Talk about circles.

So anyway...many times during the show I had to keep reminding myself that this was just a tv program. This isn't real. And then I'd go back to thinking that this is really happening it isn't just a tv show. I gave my self a headache.

But in the process I got to thinking. Who is writing for Big Love? yeah you see where I am going here right? I think those guys know something I don't. So..... I am going to hook up with those from Big Love and find out what they know. After seeing tonights episode I think they know what I might know but I want to find out if they know more than I know. Wish me luck. :)

walton

01-31-2009, 01:41 AM

this is beginning to be the posting of the decade. people are being put in jail. thank you for posting, thank you for arresting them. nibble, nibble, nibble, on our way to the big fish.

texski you sly one you. You have been out fishing. Did I ever tell you about the time I went out fly fishing? First time ever out there in Montana. Looks easy enough right? Not. It is work. No matter which way I went it was work.

The waters for fly fishing are different than the waters for catching Northern or Perch. I'd try casting out and wouldn't you know I'd have to reel back in right away. I was worried about leeches and the guide said no problem. Kept on casting out. Nothing. I'd move along still nothing. Asked the guy again about leeches. Nope, not a problem he said. Getting ready to go back up shore I could feel something around my ankles. Felt tighter and tighter. Got to shore and I had water snakes wrapped around my ankles.

Well I was a yipping and a hollering like I was on fire. Finally when I got them off me, I started to chew out the guide. I asked him, why didn't you tell me about the water snakes? and he said you kept on asking about leeches. True story.

walton

01-31-2009, 01:45 AM

Hi Walton,
Yes we did get a lot of snow this year. The state went way over the top with the alloted funds to take care of the roads. There are a lot of issues with the state about how some of the funds were used.

Since I don't have the articles right here to quote I will just say jmoo

That is what I thought. I will look into it some more.

walton

01-31-2009, 08:18 AM

http://www.childbrides.org/texas_YFZ_after_the_storm.html
written in 2005

This article also shows a picture of Merrill Jessop (check out the height of Merrill against the vehicle he standing next )

Jessop is also the father of Ernie Jessop, the young man who oversaw some of the early construction at the YFZ Ranch and who was reportedly excommunicated from the FLDS church by Warren Jeffs.

What did Ernie do or not do to make Warren mad?

walton

01-31-2009, 02:54 PM

http://www.prlog.org/10169551-survivior-of-viliolent-polygamious-cult-shares-her-story.html
Jan 19, 2009 – First time author Kim Taylor has surprised members of her small community, including some of her family and friends, with the release of her tragic memoirs in a book that reads stranger than fiction. For the first time ever, the easy-going Oregon housewife shares in detail the fascinating events that took place in her young life.

In her story, titled Daughters of Zion: A Family’s Conversion to Polygamy (212 pp, tpb, $15.95), Taylor chronicles being uprooted from her family’s comfortable middle class home in Utah at the tender age of seven to be raised in a polygamous cult in Mexico. Her life takes unbelievable twists and turns as her older sisters become plural wives, and young Kim herself is eventually courted by the polygamist fathers of her close friends. All semblance of a peaceful life is shattered when violence erupts within the ranks of the priesthood leaving one sister a widow. Kim fears for her own life as some of the people she cares most about become murderers in the name of religion.

www.justonewife.com
Kim Taylor's website

Hey Julie I just ordered this book. It is a print on demand book. Someone once told me that this mean there isn't a high calling for the book or that they only print so many at a time. I personally like to think that it means I get my own very special book.

There was something about the LeBarons and the location that kept this in the back of my head when I ordered books today.

Another oldie I ordered was Prisons of the Mind by Kaziah Hacock.

Here is her story. http://thehopeorg.org/kaziah.html In the 1990s, her second husband bought into Jim Harmston’s polygamist group based in Manti. "I knew if I didn’t go with him I’d lose him," Kaziah reflects. She lost him anyway, along with all her worldly goods. "When I finally started to stand up for myself it was too late," she said. "The difference between Mormonism and Jim’s group is that Mormons don’t necessarily live the Doctrine of Covenants [specifically D&C Section 132, which calls for polygamy]. They put it aside. With [polygamy] groups, if you believe it, you're forced to act. You live the beliefs."

When Jordan brought home Rose Le Barron (widow of the late polygamist Ervil Le Barron) to be his second wife, Kaziah refused to give her permission for them to wed. "When a guy takes more than one wife, it’s flattering to his ego. But to the woman, hell they are raped mentally and spiritually," she explained. "I've been crucified by brothers and sacrificed by lovers.

One minute I'm being washed and anointed in the Temple [of Jim Harmston’s polygamy group, built in a Manti barn] and being told 'the spirit of the Lord is upon you. You are the wife of Christ in Earth.' And just as suddenly, I'm the daughter of perdition."

walton

01-31-2009, 08:12 PM

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700233035,00.html?pg=1

At one point, a report asked Parker to identify the public relations firm behind the shift in public attitude. "It's me," he replied. "It's me and Willie Jessop."

Rod Parker has been associated with the FLDS for years did he know that the Willie the thug, mover of people and dirt was really not Willie the makeshift Prophet?

Why would Rod Parker hold hands with Willie the mover?

Does Rod Parker know where the other Willie is keeping himself? Why wasn't Rod Parker with Willie the mover when the depositions were taken?

Where is Rod Parker? Does he still work for Snow?

walton

02-01-2009, 12:23 PM

On the bottom left side of this page it is stated that a person can share this news letter. They shared and I am sharing.

http://www.childpro.org/newsletter/PolygamyNews0108.pdf

In 2004 Timpson officially petitioned the St. George court to change his last name to Jessop. The change was granted. He then assumed Fred Jessop’s identity, position, home, family and wealth in the FLDS.

Fifteen months after Fred Jessop disappeared he was found in a Lone Tree, Colorado hospital. It wasWilliam E. Jessop who drove Fred to the hospital. One week later he died. The death was not in question. Flora Jessop and her brothers wanted to know where Fred was for the 15
months.

William E. Jessop was under suspicion of identity theft but the St. George FBI agent would not file charges.

So... not only do we have talking Willie being a thug. We have Warrens confession Willie under the spot light but whose spot light?

Which Willie gave the deposition?

I do believe this a Twins Peak moment.

Why was Shurtleff doing the walkabout with any of the Willies? Why is any of the Willies involved in talks about anything?

Why was Parker joined at the hip to Willie the mover of dirt and people.

Sam Brower knew who Willie the body guard was. It was talking Willie.
http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story/Who-is-Willie-Jessop/f7UkkX4nOUWOEzNa1Mn07w.cspx Watch the video.

Why are the FLDS following any Willie?

Wow.

walton

02-01-2009, 04:55 PM

If Warren wasn't a Prophet than Willie isn't a Prophet.

Rulon shouldn't have been the Prophet .....he got it the same way as Warren got the title.

If Rulon wasn't the Prophet is there a Prophet? Is there a Church?

Anything to be gotten was received under false pretenses. Right?

They can't hand anything over to CPark because it was all done under false pretenses and illegally.

And they all agreed with everything Warren and Rulon said.

There is no tooth fairy, there is no Santa Claus, there is no Easter Bunny. And wow!! There is no Church. The Temple is not a Temple. It is an empty building. Warren knew it. That is why it was never registered as a Church.

Warren did what the State wouldn't/couldn't do. He busted up the Church.

Wow.

I've had my differences with Pliggy but all this time Pliggy has been chasing a bad dream. Warren had no right to oust Pliggy or anyone else. Pliggy doesn't need to ask anyone for permission to have his family back other than his wife and kids.

This just isn't right.

Fred Jessop was taken from his home. Some wives were left behind. Family not knowing where he was or if he was alive. Families torn apart. Kids tossed from their homes and families.

Too many people. Way too many people hurt.

Do you guys remember what Dan Fischer said about his father?

Some of these people are old. I really hope this ends soon. :sad:

walton

02-01-2009, 05:47 PM

I know it is only the tip Texas-SE but how many more people need to feel like Pliggy? How many like those kids in that documentary being made?

How many more Fred Jessops? How many more like Mr. Fischers father?

How many Johnnie Jessops?

How many hidden little girls?

These aren't lost Boys and Girls. They think they are lost souls. Kids, mothers, fathers, grandparents. Young people, old people, dying people.

That isn't right. I might not have a Church but I feel bad for them. It just isn't right.

I've only been following this for 4 years on the internet. 8 years the ol' fashion way (letter writing, asking questions) 12 years total. But this is a life time for these people. But this is their after life.

It just isn't right to take that away. or to let them believe what isn't.

Tell me something Texas-SE. Tell me something that makes all this pain for these people worth it.

Tell me it will be better tomorrow. The next day. I need to know.

texski

02-01-2009, 08:17 PM

.

Well I was a yipping and a hollering like I was on fire. Finally when I got them off me, I started to chew out the guide. I asked him, why didn't you tell me about the water snakes? and he said you kept on asking about leeches. True story.[/QUOTE]

this reminds me of the polys answering questions in court procedures. the courts may have not learned how to ask questions of these masters of obscurity. they seem to have their own language and morals and laws. i think texas is learning how to decode their double speak and non answers they need to be asking more about snakes, money, corporations, etc. the leeches are the smaller problem.

juliekan

02-02-2009, 01:59 PM

thanks for the articles, Walton.

So this shows how Willie E. Timpson Jessop and Willie "the thug" Jessop are two different people, correct?

texski

02-02-2009, 07:57 PM

walton

02-03-2009, 08:14 AM

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20080501.html

Written May 2008

What is most striking here is that not a single adult from the ranch or the sect has been willing to admit to the obvious cycle of severe child sexual abuse. One of the most chilling statements I have ever witnessed – and I have focused specifically upon the arena of organizational child abuse, including within the Catholic Church – was that of the mother who would not answer a reporter's question whether girls were married off to much older men, but rather asserted that whatever happened there happened out of "love."

There is widespread knowledge about the practices of the FLDS, which has been practicing polygamy and child sex abuse for over a century. This organization traces its roots back to the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, who mandated polygamy in the mid-Nineteenth Century. (Importantly, the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ Latter-Day Saints, or Mormon Church, publicly renounced the practice at the end of the Nineteenth Century and again at the start of the Twentieth. Thus, it would be a grave error to confuse FLDS with LDS or Mormonism.)

The recent Utah trial of the FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs documented the practice of elders arranging and encouraging the sexual abuse of underage girls. (Jeffs, as readers may recall, was ultimately apprehended for his brazen Mann Act violations, consisting of transporting girls across state and international boundaries to be delivered to FLDS men, after the FBI finally placed him on its Ten Most Wanted List.)

I still believe that Texas did the right thing. And I still believe that Shurtleff and Parker both are fools. jmo

I've never seen one episode of Soprano's. The only mafia film I've ever seen is the one with Bugsy Seigal. I have zip knowledge about Corp. and the spider webs surrounding all the money dealings of this CULT. I have faith in Bruce Wisan and his firm.

I have faith in Judge Lindberg and Judge Shumate and none in the man who wears the robe Judge Steven F. Conn.

I think pyramids are being built with no stones being laid. I still believe that glass houses will crumble and some men with fat wallets will sweat.

This is jmo.

walton

02-03-2009, 08:23 AM

i am beginning to think that all the names are interchangable??? they are so inbred that even if they wanted to i guess they will have to have people with the same names all the time. but the willie jessup and whoever has me baffled. willie e. is the one just at court in texas?
just read the txbluesman. very interesting .
walton, things are already getting better, the secret veil they have had for generations is being lifted.

Willie R. Jessop- the talker- the mover of dirt and people-the self appointed spokesperson who was joined at the hip to Parker. The one who tries to talk about this Religion but doesn't do a very good job because he himself doesn't know.

Willie E. Timpson Jessop is the one Warren said was the Prophet. Supposedly we've never seen him surface. He is the one whose house was raided in Cedar City. The one who could be a potential witness. The one who drove Fred Jessop to the hospital.

Willie R. Jessop whose photograph was taken up at the border but yet no one was in Texas to take his photo going in for this deposition.

:confused:

walton

02-03-2009, 08:27 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6243119.html

Texas Child Protective Services notified a judge Monday that it is removing the 17-year-old daughter of jailed polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs from court supervision even though evidence shows her father encouraged her marriage to a 34-year-old sect member.

The teen’s removal leaves under court supervision only three of 439 children CPS removed last April from the sect’s ranch in Eldorado.

“We have nonsuited (dismissed) cases when we believe that parents or family members have taken steps to protect the children from future abuse or neglect,” said Patrick Crimmins, CPS spokesman. “A nonsuit means that in our estimation court oversight is no longer needed to ensure a child’s safety.”

juliekan

02-03-2009, 01:07 PM

http://gosanangelo.com/news/2009/feb/03/breaking-news-jeffs-daughter-dropped-from-flds/

Jeffs' daughter dropped from FLDS civil investigation

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705282220,00.html?pg=1

Jeffs' daughter among 5 dropped from Texas case

Only 3 children remain under supervision

juliekan

02-03-2009, 07:11 PM

BREAKING NEWS: Report: Alleged Jeffs bride instructed to 'keep crying'

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/feb/03/breaking-news-alleged-jeffs-bride-instructed-to/#comments

A 14-year-old girl alleged to be a bride of Warren Jeffs received text messages while in state custody telling her to "please stay angry" and to "keep crying, pout, sleep in," according to a report filed by court-appointed guardians and obtained by the Standard-Times.

The report, filed by the girl's guardian ad litem, describes a series of text messages sent to the girl between Jan. 15 and Jan. 21 from a phone number labeled in the phone as "POP." It recommends that 51st District Judge Barbara Walther halt visitation between the girl and her mother, Barbara Jessop, and no longer allow any phone communication between the two.

"Having (the girl) take responsibility for the cell phone shows a serious disregard for her," the report states, "and it places her in a terrible position of having to lie repeatedly, especially to her foster family with whom she's developed a close relationship."

juliekan

02-03-2009, 09:02 PM

Sorry that link is on the page with the comments. Just scroll up for the article.

juliekan

02-03-2009, 09:46 PM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705282475,00.html

Lawyer asks to quit FLDS custody case

Court clerks in San Angelo, Texas, confirmed to the Deseret News on Tuesday that Carmen Dusek filed a motion to withdraw as the girl's attorney. The reasons why were not immediately clear as the filing had not been made public.

What in the world is going on? I have been befuddled by everything I have read today!:blink:

walton

02-04-2009, 02:47 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705282479,00.html

A criminal case against the woman suspected of making the hoax phone call that sparked the raid on the Fundamentalist LDS Church's Texas ranch is apparently on hold.

A series of hearings for Rozita Swinton, 34, scheduled to begin Wednesday in Colorado Springs, Colo., were vacated, court records show, with a review hearing rescheduled for March 11. Her trial on a misdemeanor false reporting case was delayed last month while authorities completed a mental health evaluation, prosecutors said. Court records show a report was filed Jan. 28 in El Paso County court.

Sure is a lot of talk in the blog world about someone who isn't talking.

Sara. Rozita. Phone. Info.

Did Rozita make the phone calls? or did Sara?

Did someone have Rozita's phone?

Why hasn't anyone else been asking about Patricia Keate? Who is she?

Who is missing from the posting area at Brookes blog?

rericson. now enters BillM.

Will Rozita provide interesting info when she does appear on stand?

Or will Sara appear?

Where did Warren go on his visits? Who did he visit with?

juliekan

02-04-2009, 03:21 AM

that poster has been MIA since 1/29/09, in the pm.

BM is horribly obnoxious, isn't he, on those blogs hammer

texski

02-04-2009, 11:50 AM

to our beloved leader.
we do not need to know a lot of personel infomation about posters, but your last post had me laughing. it so reminded me of my many inquisitions to my three boys and one girl. where have you been. where are you going. who is going with you. how long will you be there, etc. and etc.
i wonder if you hone your skills in being a daughter or a mother?
but yes, it would sure be nice to have straight answers to your questions .

juliekan

02-04-2009, 02:21 PM

:flamemad: Piccarreta is determined to decide for Texas whether the search at the YFZ ranch was legal. He is dying to get that information thrown out. Mike Watkiss thinks it is all just to get rid of the famous picture of Warren and his 12 year old bride. http://azfamily.beloblog.com/3tvTalks/2008/12/confessions_of_30.html

Here are the new court filings in Arizona
Motion for disclosure of audio and video from YFZ
http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/743%20-%20Motion%20for%20Disclosure%20of%20Audio%20and%20 Video%20recordings%2002-02-09.pdf

Response to motion for a/v
http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/743%20response%20to%20motion%2002-02-09.pdf

Brooke's blog is also talking about this

texski

02-04-2009, 03:56 PM

it is easy to see why the lawyers for the polys want to get rid of that infamous picture of jeffs and the young girl.
i believe that
any jury that sees that picture would convict .

walton

02-05-2009, 10:06 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/30/texas.polygamists/index.html

Jeffs is jailed in Mohave County, Arizona, awaiting trial on five counts of sexual conduct with a minor, four counts of incest and one count of conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor.

If convicted, he could face more than three years in prison. In November, he was sentenced to two consecutive terms of five years to life in Utah after being convicted on two charges of being an accomplice to rape in connection with a marriage he performed in 2001.

He was accused of using his religious influence over his followers to coerce a 14-year-old girl into marriage with her 19-year-old cousin. The girl, Elissa Wall, testified that she repeatedly told Jeffs she did not want to be married and that she was uncomfortable with sexual advances from her husband, Allen Steed, who is now awaiting trial on rape charges.

The charges he faces in Arizona were brought about BEFORE the raid in Texas. The things they found in Texas would only back up the proof that they ALREADY had against him am I right?

So....why in the heck did Warrens lawyer want to play the waiting game? The Arizona trial should have been a done deal some time ago. Shouldn't matter what they found in Texas.

Has Warren had any fainting spells lately? Traveled anyplace? Has anyone been to see him?

walton

02-05-2009, 05:42 PM

Whatever the taxpayers have to pay to keep Warren inside of his own four walls is much less than what the tax-payers were paying prior. jmo

Today I received 2 of 3 books.

I'll stop back in a couple of days or when I have a Aha moment.

walton

02-05-2009, 07:06 PM

off topic a little

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11626266

But the oil and gas industry warned that a policy shift could cost consumers more in the long run.

"The Obama administration's actions will lead to job losses, government revenue losses and higher energy costs," said Institute for Energy Research President Thomas J. Pyle in Washington.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, also blasted Salazar's decision. "The argument that these leases have been canceled to protect our national parks is a fairy tale conjured up to win public support for what is actually a very dangerous anti-oil agenda."

I hope they look very close at all the wheeling and dealing that went on.
Good ol' Orrin might be biting his lip once again. And I think Mr. Thomas J. Pyle should talk to those "oil folks" one more time. jmo

:biggrin:

walton

02-06-2009, 06:37 PM

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/feb/06/jeffs-daughter-dismissed-from-flds-case/

Warren Jeffs' daughter is done. So is Natalie Malonis.

51st District Judge Barbara Walther dismissed all petitions and attorneys involved with the case of the now-17-year-old girl alleged to have been married to a 34-year-old man just after her 15th birthday - closing for good one of the highest profile and most contentious aspects of the long-running litigation surrounding the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

"I just couldn't believe what she was saying," said the girl's beaming mother, Annette Jeffs, after the hearing. "It's too good to be true."

I still think that Natalie Malonis did her job well.

walton

02-07-2009, 12:30 AM

You are missing something?

We all are missing something.

Something bigger is about to happen. Who knows maybe now that TJ is out and about we might learn more about the "missing Sarah". jmo

The phone might have been owned by Rozita but who was using the phone?

BillM is one of the players. He had posted the name of the couple that TJ was staying with. Who is BillM.? And what is his connection with Rod Parker and Jeri Ward?

Julie said rericson has been missing from Brookes blog since Jan. 29th. What is/was her connection?

Where is Pliggy hiding himself?

off topic a bit:

Grammy interesting photos of the road construction crews in Utah. I would be a little nervous if I was that one crews foreman. OSHA just might have to do a little investigation of "job safety".

Sure are a lot of construction going on in Utah. Wonder if Merrill or any of the other FLDS crews got any bids moving dirt? Do you know? Maybe on some of those side projects?

Do you know if there were any bids made by any of Warrens makeshift companies that might be moving dirt for a resort or a casino of sorts?

Just wondering.

Texas-SE some interesting news here: http://myeldorado.net/

Also did you read that one article about the one lady taking her mom out for a computer? :biggrin: She could have easily been writing about me.

Texski- I have been reading the book by Jill Taylor. So far the book has been interesting.

juliekan

02-07-2009, 01:31 AM

Hi, thanks for all the updates, have been busy. Back later.

Just wondering what's up next if they're giving up on TJ.

off to the "rock" (galveston) to check things out for the first time (for me) since the hurricane

texski

02-07-2009, 11:10 AM

i think they are letting the young lady go because she will be 18 and they would have no legal way to hold her.
is her new owner, raymond jessup, cannot call him her husband, they are not married according to the group the one pictured with a tired looking wife and 4 or 5 children in the pictures from the courthouse in san angelo. , fat belly, no maidens dreamboat.

walton

02-07-2009, 06:55 PM

walton

02-07-2009, 07:27 PM

I've been waiting for this.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11652642

FLDS members are waiting to see what happens with the criminal case before deciding whom to follow, he said.

"Everybody is hedging their bets on Warren Jeffs," Shurtleff said, adding Jeffs' journals suggest "he is in control. He's controlling everything.

"Ultimately, if and when they realize he is never going to get out of prison, I think it will result in a change of leadership," Shurtleff told the symposium.

Shurtleff said Willie Jessop -- a man who "I used to call a thug" -- seems to be jockeying for position within the FLDS community. Shurtleff told The Tribune it's unclear who gave Jessop authority to represent the sect in ongoing negotiations regarding its communal property trust.

The trust is under court supervision following allegations of mismanagement, but a Utah judge is urging a settlement in the case.

"A constant question," Shurtleff said, "is if the person we're negotiating with is the right person" and what might happen to any deal if that person were excommunicated by Jeffs.

Willie Jessop, who has served as a spokesman for the FLDS since the April raid, was perplexed as to how to respond to Shurtleff's comments.

"I've been branded a lot of things by the Attorney General's Office. I don't know how to react to another allegation when they've been doing it for years," he said.

A man "I used to call a thug". Does that mean he has now changed his opinion of him? Did Willie the "thug" now become Willies dance partner?

and further into the article: Shurtleff defended his description of the FLDS as a "Taliban-like organization," telling the symposium there is "no greater example of pure theocracy than the FLDS and the way they were functioning before, but mostly after, Warren Jeffs took over."

"Talibn-like organization" and yet there he is going for long walks in the Park with a "thug" named Willie.

What the heck? Is it wash day? Does anyone remember the old ringer washers? Wishy Washy Wishy Washy. Side to side and back and forth it would go.

If I remember right Shurtleff was having meetings with Winston Blackmore last summer or the summer before. I'd have to look it up but I am sure of it. Shurtleff really let him know how he stands. Yeah right. Made Winston so comfortable he is calling in for a favor. lol

Winston is as full of it as is Shurtleff. jmo

Why is Shurtleff listening to Willie R. Jessop? Why is anyone dealing with him? I personally think Willie R. Jessop is a scape goat. But who put him in the spot? Warren didn't. Did the famous 2nd voice (Rod Parker) put him in the spot? What hole did Willie E. Timpson Jessop crawl into?

And what about Wendell? Who is taking care of Wendell's business? I know it sure isn't that little guy wearing Mr. Rogers sweater. Is Wendell in Canada?

I really can't say anything about Warrens lawyer. He appears to be doing his job and he is doing it silently. (Dang it) The only thing I hear from him is tid-bits in the wind.

There really is no FLDS. Willie R. Jessop surely can't be a prophet.
Willie E. Timpson Jessop can't be a prophet.
Warren wasn't a Prophet to call anyone a Prophet.
Rulon wasn't a Prophet.

No Prophet no Church. None of these guys had the keys. They will never have the keys. Done deal. Warren ousted himself out along with everyone else.

texski

02-07-2009, 08:36 PM

interesting. if there is no head to this cult, can we hope it will begin to wilt and decay???

walton

02-07-2009, 10:02 PM

interesting. if there is no head to this cult, can we hope it will begin to wilt and decay???

As long as Shurtleff is in the mix, it appears he is doing everything he can to merge the FLDS group into the CPark group. Which is wrong.

The FLDS can't really go there because they didn't follow Musser. They stuck with Rulon and group.

The CPark are just as wrong about having keys as was Rulon. I personally am beginning to think that the true key holder is within. jmo

Check this out: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11653883

An attorney who represents polygamous sect leader Warren S. Jeffs was arrested in Washington County early Saturday on suspicion of public intoxication.

Walter "Wally" Bugden was arrested at 1:38 a.m. by Ivins police and booked into the Washington County Jail on suspicion of public intoxication.

Bugden, 58, posted $182 bond and was released from jail.

Is this a joke? Is someone playing a joke do you think? I never know anymore. Is it really Wally? If it isn't a joke... I feel kinda bad for the guy.

Texski do you think this is real?

walton

02-08-2009, 12:53 AM

http://webserv.sandy.utah.gov/sandycode/criminal/Chapter%207/7-7-15.html

(a) A person is guilty of public intoxication if he is under the influence of beer, alcoholic beverages, intoxicating liquor, a controlled substance, or any substance having the property of releasing toxic vapors, to a degree that the person may endanger himself or another, in a public place or in a private place where he unreasonably disturbs other persons.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to consume, possess or have, in any City park or upon any public property, any beer, alcoholic beverage, or intoxicating liquor.

(c) A peace officer or magistrate may release from custody an individual arrested under this section if he believes imprisonment is unnecessary for the protection of the individual or another.

(d) An offense under this section shall be deemed a class C misdemeanor.

Wow. In all honesty I can actually say I could have been charged with this a time or two. Not now but in my younger years. A few of us young gals sat in the local park one night with Mr. Miller Light. We thought we were all singers and started singing songs from the 60's.

If we would have gotten into trouble, I am thinking it would have been more for our singing than our drinking. j/k

Maybe Wallys singing was worse than ours.

I've learned quite a bit over the last 4 years Grammy. I don't understand the whole Taylor dream/vision but no matter what..... Rulon never had the keys. And neither did Warren.

Warren Jeffs behind four Walls is exactly what he has worked his whole life to achieve. A life behind four walls. Being told what to wear, when to eat, what to eat, when to sleep, when to shower. Another good thing is that he won't be able to write a book about this. :)

texski

02-08-2009, 11:36 AM

i come from a family with a lot of law enforcement members. i do not recall them ever arresting someone for public drinking. the rule was ask them to leave the premises, asking friends and/or family to take them home, taking their car keys away, etc. disturbing other patrons, escourt them to a cab. driving when drunk would be different of course, i remember one time a farmer was arrested for riding his horse down the middle of the road, arrested for dui.
this sounds more like a personal vendetta against the man. or he could have become combative when asked to leave and was really arrested for threatening or attacking the police persons. but then booked for the lessor offense.
sometimes lawyers can be very nasty to police officers in the court house, trying to protect their client. i wonder if there had been some previous run ins between them.
he can just charge the fine to the flds.

walton

02-09-2009, 11:43 PM

Texas-SE

I really don't have an idea as to who set that fire.

As far as Warren and his curse: During his speech, Shurtleff said Jeffs, incarcerated in Mohave County while he awaits trial in Arizona, has predicted "the prison walls are going to be falling down at any moment." FLDS members are waiting to see what happens with the criminal case before deciding whom to follow, he said.

Those "prison walls" he speaks of could easily be the "prison walls" he built around those that followed him. Warren is a goofball.

If none of the many reporters can get a comment from anyone down there about Warren or a true picture of Warren. I am thinking his prison walls are going to stay put.

I will be left to wondering if Warren is really alive or if he dressed up in a red wig and doing a show in Vegas.

I do know that neither of the Willies should be even thought of as Prophet or in any position to call any shots. Wendell is out of the picture. Warrens brothers have their own dealings with the law. They can't really step up. Yup, Warren crashed his own walls. He out foxed himself. lol

If the CPark group keeps getting the backing of Shurtleff the FLDS followers might slide over there. Another big mistake on Shurtleffs part imo.

juliekan

02-10-2009, 01:50 PM

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705284026,00.html

FLDS leader's life on the run is detailed in his dictations

The information comes from among 600 pages of exhibits attached to a Texas child custody case that were made public on Monday.

In the documents, the polygamous sect leader pronounces God's judgment on cities across the nation, believes Hurricane Katrina is the Almighty's wrath on a wicked city, visits a tanning salon and watches action movies with his wives

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/feb/10/papers-detail-sects-plans/

Papers detail sect's plans

Jeffs describes visiting suntan booths and learning how to ride a motorcycle. He often seemed to seek out the worst of pop culture - ordering his traveling companions to watch television late at night to witness American depravity.

Sounds more like WJ wanted to partake in a little of what most people call a normal life, travelling, tanning, watching movies.....that learning to ride a motorcycle was REALLY important to his research about the evils of the world....NOT.:rolleyes: Yeah old WJ wanted to enjoy life before goin' to the old slammer.

walton

02-10-2009, 10:55 PM

Just a few links concerning Wally. Did you guys know that he was born in New York and his father was a Doctor?

http://ehutchison.homestead.com/LyndonRegistry.html

Walter F. Bugden and Lee Bibb Lindsay Bugden lived on Knollwood Rd. by 1951. He was born 12-23-1910, and was a physician and thoracic surgeon with offices in the Medical Arts Building in Syracuse. Mrs. Bugden was a native of Pulaski. VA, and was a graduate of the Elizabeth Gardner Finishing School, in Washington, DC. Her mother, Hattie Bibb Lindsay, the widow of Judge Richard Lee Lindsay, lived with the Bugden family. Mrs. Bugden died on 4-25-1974. Dr. Bugden later married Jane F. Poole, and died on 12-3-2002, while residing in Naples, FL. Walter and Lee Bibb Bugden had: Dr. Robert Lindsay Bugden, who was a graduate of the North Carolina Medical College, and a resident intern at Roosevelt Hospital in NYC at his death on 11-13-1968, Lee-Bibb Bugden Lindsley, who is an elementary teacher, living in Marietta, GA, and Walter "Wally" Bugden, Jr., who was born in 1950, and is a lawyer in Salt Lake City, best known for his defence of the polygamous leader, Warren Jeffs. Curiously, the obituary for Robert Bugden, appeared next to that of his former neighbor, Edward Bullock. Both died on the same day--November 13, 1968. Dr. Bugden was 27, and Mr. Bullock was 76, (see below).

texski

02-10-2009, 11:30 PM

grammy, i get a totally different feel for warren jeffs. i always thought that he really believed he was the promised leader, so much better and more advanced than the poor old people in his flock. i think he had convinced himself that he was above all the ordinary men so that he could do as he pleased to make sure that he was not captured. after all, the rest of his cult could not get along without his leadership. maybe mentally ill, most of them in this group are, i think, but in his mind,, he was the *******, the born leader , the man who was born to make all the rules. getting put in jail was such a rude shock to him that he had a meltdown, on his knees, praying to his God, expecting him to come and release him and make him all powerful again. shock would come on when he was not answered .
this is just a fantasy feeling on my part, he may very well have been a con man, but most con men are smarter and more realistic about who they are than jeffs.

walton

02-11-2009, 12:35 AM

I've been looking for something for the last 3 days. I keep getting side tracked but I thought you guys might find this interesting.

http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/882673/Obituary-Maurine-Owen-Barlow.html

This is an obit for Maurine Owen Barlow. This was published in 2001.

Obituary: Maurine Owen Barlow
Published: Monday, June 25, 2001 3:43 p.m. MDT

Our mother, Maurine Owen Barlow, and her first born, Jean Vilate Wayman, were killed in an auto-pedestrian accident June 21, 2001.

Mother was the daughter of Charles Henry Owen and Betsy Vilate Tucker Kingston, born Nov 26, 1913 in Ammon, ID. She graduated from the LDS Academy when she was only 16 and went to work at the phone company as a long distance operator.

She joined Albert E. Barlow's family Dec 20, 1935 as his third wife and blessed his life with 13 children. She kept meticulous records of her posterity: 180 grandchildren, 297 great-grandchildren and two great great-grandchildren.

Notice that it states she joined Albert E. Barlow's family as his 3rd wife.

Interesting don't you think?

I also noticed some familiar names in the list of "birth children".

juliekan

02-11-2009, 02:23 AM

I also noticed some familiar names in the list of "birth children".

OK, I give, I can't find anyone that sounds familiar (at first I thought it was Virginia Webb, then realized that was a really old boyfriend's mom's name, LOL)

Who we lookin' at?

texski

02-11-2009, 08:00 PM

i am a very slow pokey person, like many texans, ha.
i just realized that the name of this forum is the FLDS CHILDREN.
wonderful. we will always have that on our minds when coming
here. polygamy is yucko to most women, but it is the children who pay.
also just noticed that i am listed as the one who started
this section or whatever. how could that be, i do not know how
to do any such thing. ah, fame is fleeting.

juliekan

02-11-2009, 08:53 PM

aaah, Texski, you are talented in ways you don't even understand.

and are wise beyond your years.....:cool:

walton

02-12-2009, 12:41 AM

I just read the Eldorado Success. http://myeldorado.net/

If Warren went to all those states did he indeed talk to anyone? And if so... who did he talk to?

I still think Natalie Malonis did a Super Job. But why is Shurtleff yipping like he is the one that discovered anything?

How do they know that Warren has been running things behind bars? Where did they get the info?

lotty

02-12-2009, 12:44 AM

Hi everyone, :seeya:
Checking in and trying to catch up. I need free time to breathe, catch up reading here, and a whole slew of other things on my list. :wink: I'll catch up I'm sure. Glad to see everyone else posting.

Walton there is a pm coming your way.

lotty

02-12-2009, 01:01 AM

texski

02-12-2009, 01:28 PM

aaah, Texski, you are talented in ways you don't even understand.

and are wise beyond your years.....:cool:

thank you for the kind words, but i am really pretty old already,
but i am a real texan, born in honey island, texas to a family who went to texas
in 1832. texas schools and way of life have sustained me as a military wife
wandering all over the place.
the little girls in these texas pictures made me want to cry, they looked like i did in the
1930 eras on a farm. they look so sweet and happy with no idea of what the leaders have in store for them.

juliekan

02-12-2009, 04:25 PM

Oh, I just had one more thing. Has anyone noticed that Jennie Pipkin gets around almost as much as Willie? She testified in Warren's trial in Utah, she was in Texas after the raid, when the interviews on television were going on and she was in Utah during the Berry Knoll, UEP thing. Just something I spotted, had just a little free time.:biggrin:JMO

http://www.trenthead.com/2007/09/warren-jeffs-trial-jennie-pipkin/

Warren Jeffs Trial, Jennie Pipkin
September 19, 2007

http://www.facebook.com/people/Jennie-Pipkin/647843113

Her facebook page

this was all I could find about her....

walton

02-12-2009, 07:35 PM

Texas-SE

So Wisan is really out? And Shurtleff is going to continue to play a role?

This is the kinda thing that can make a person lose faith in our system. jmo

This is such B.S.

Does Shurtleff write letters to Warren and sign them Love your faithful follower Mark Shurtleff?

Needless to say I am pissed.

walton

02-12-2009, 07:41 PM

Sure Warren talked to many people, and the journals and records he kept are now know to LE, don't think that everything was released to the public, but the FBI knows the answers to your question of who Warren talked to, they just aren't saying publicly.

Why is Shuretleff yapping about the info, simple, he's a politico who wants to look good to the public.

How do they know about Warren Jeffs activities behind bars. Simple all prisoners communications are monitored, the mail read & censored, their phone calls taped, their in person visits with family-friends taped-videoed, only exemption-communications with Jeffs attorneys. Attorney client previleges apply to those communications.:ohmy:

So how is this info getting out? Shurtleff? Why?

Does any of this make sense to anyone?

walton

02-13-2009, 08:04 AM

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story/Utah-Polygamous-Groups-Learn-to-Lobby-Lawmakers/tQ2OYasrOkmvKnKweTUdog.cspx

Polygamists put the kids first. Check out the video. Rod Decker visits with some of the kids from Polygamists families.

I don't believe that any of the group Rod talked to were from the FLDS.

There is another story over there were Rod talks about Mark Shurtleff saying they don't have to worry about the AG going after anyone practicing Polygamy. Unless of course they break other laws.

I wonder if pot smokers don't have to worry about the AG going after them if they don't "inhale". Unless they are breaking other laws.

Mark Shurtleff is one dandy of an AG. :rolleyes:

walton

02-13-2009, 04:12 PM

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/feb/13/documents-yfz-ranch-was-jeffs-center-stake-used/

I've read a lot of articles, books and viewed many news videos and documentaries but there has been only two occasions where I have actually broke down and cried.

Once was when I saw the special hearing with Stephen Singular and now again after reading this story by Paul Anthony.

This means there is no going back. People can't shut the door. Can't shove it under the door. Can't say it didn't exist. It is out in the open. As it should be.

It isn't just being talked about on a blog somewhere. It is there. Right there. For everyone to see.

Thank you Paul Anthony

texski

02-13-2009, 08:34 PM

if crying would help, i would cry me a river.
slavery is alive and well

walton

02-15-2009, 12:38 AM

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705285125,00.html

Texas child welfare authorities are asking a judge to drop a 9-year-old son of Fundamentalist LDS Church leader Warren Jeffs from the ongoing custody case involving children from the polygamous sect's YFZ Ranch.

Child Protective Services confirmed to the Deseret News the agency filed to have the child "nonsuited" on Friday, leaving only two children left in the case. However, a judge may have to decide custody issues before dropping the case.

The boy's court-appointed attorney filed papers in a San Angelo, Texas, court seeking to determine who has authority over the child and to order Jeffs to pay child support. The child's mother died in 2004 and in the years since, he has been cared for by his aunt, Annette Jeffs — one of Warren Jeffs' other wives.

walton

02-15-2009, 01:33 AM

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/topnews/story/Polygamist-Leader-a-Model-Inmate-in-Arizona-Jail/J8W8FOSij0e8zmehLKHm4Q.cspx

Jeffs' most frequent visitor has been Naomie Jessop, who was traveling with Jeffs when he was arrested in Las Vegas. On a recent afternoon, she and another follower dressed in blue prairie dresses with their hair braided huddled together in a booth, separated from Jeffs by a window.

The soft-spoken woman, who was married to Jeffs' late father, has visited Jeffs nearly two dozen times over the past year. Neither she nor her visiting companion have any interest in speaking to the media, and neither does Jeffs, Piccarreta said.

A visit with Warren. Wow. What would a person say?

3 books in his cell. I wonder what he is reading?

If I had only one question and IF he answered truthfully I would ask him (Warren Jeffs the man not the Prophet) about the keys. I'd want to know what made him think they had the keys.

I know that Piccarreta can't say a whole lot because he is Warrens lawyer. But I would be willing to spend a week in Piccarretas office and let him "vent" . It can't be healthy for him to keep all this info inside.

:smile: I know. It will never happen but it sure sounded good didn't it?

texski

02-15-2009, 12:13 PM

the article mentioned religious books, but no names. my question is: does this church have it own books , written by the polygamists, or do they also use the real mormon church official books??

walton

02-16-2009, 03:56 AM

texski I remember seeing a few pictures (I think on Trents blog) of certain books that they had on their shelves. I think they might have been copies of some below.

But I think that after Rulon and Warren placed themselves on the High Chair that most of the people were reading and following Warren and Rulons teachings.

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?id=2655&option=com_content&task=view

Six of the books are the collected sermons of former FLDS President Leroy S. Johnson, who led the fundamentalist church from 1955 until his death at age 98 on Nov. 25, 1986. The sermons begin in 1950 and each reflects the occasion or location where it was delivered, including the southern Utah communities originally called Short Creek, Salt Lake City and a small FLDS enclave in Canada.

Some of the writings appear to be from Johnson's own hand, imparting his personal stories, reflections or anecdotes. Others draw primarily on scriptural references from either the Bible or the Book of Mormon, citing sermons or speeches from early leaders including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor.

texski

02-16-2009, 01:10 PM

i have always thought you could learn a lot about a person from the books he reads.
if his are all his and his fathers , probably privately printed, it does tell me a lot about him.

juliekan

02-18-2009, 01:28 PM

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/02/born-to-ride/#comments

Born to ride (scroll up for article and picture)

Warren on his motorcycle............:laugh:

What do you think, Pliggy?(saw you had stopped by)

walton

02-19-2009, 08:27 AM

walton

02-19-2009, 08:34 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11733267?source=rss

Enrollment at Mohave Community College's campus in a polygamous community at the Utah-Arizona state line has dropped more than 50 percent over the past five years -- a decrease a top official attributes to a government center located on its property.

Now, the college is asking the county to cease use of the Multi-Use Facility that houses law enforcement and social service agency offices.

Chancellor Michael J. Kearns has informed Mohave County Manager Ron Walker the college will not renew a property lease set to expire April 1. The county may option monthly extensions for up to six months, when two modular trailers must be moved and the property restored to its original condition.

And further into the article: Jessop and other anti-polygamy activists predicted few residents would venture into the facility. With the exception of the assistance office, that turned out to be largely true, even for non-FLDS members.

"There were people in our community who felt uncomfortable going into the facility and discussing their needs when Gary Engles was there," said Marlyne Hammon, a member of the Centennial Park Action Committee.

I say keep the buildings where they are and give Gary Engles a branch office.

walton

02-19-2009, 08:39 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11725761

Utah's incest law applies only to sexual intercourse -- something lawmakers are now working to change.

On Tuesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved a bill that would allow prosecutors to use genetic evidence to build cases where claims are made that no sexual intercourse took place.

SB11, sponsored by Sen. Dennis Stowell, R-Parowan, also extends the reporting period for incest from four to seven years.

walton

02-19-2009, 08:47 AM

walton

02-19-2009, 08:51 AM

i have always thought you could learn a lot about a person from the books he reads.
if his are all his and his fathers , probably privately printed, it does tell me a lot about him.

oh oh

Just want to let others know that I do read other books. Not everything on my shelf is about Polygamy.

:smile:

juliekan

02-19-2009, 05:10 PM

I am bringing this back up. When I read this article the first time I missed the notation at the very top about downloading the files. Please note the links to documents on the right side.

For everyone to read. :thumbsup:

Thanks Paul Anthony

:biggrin:

:seeya:Walton

No I haven't slogged through all of the info yet, just some of it.

I posted that about Pliggy yesterday because I saw he was here reading. Other sites were questioning if the picture of WJ was photoshopped, but most figure Trent would have known and perhaps the pic would never have been posted if that was so.

Loved it, and notice how he loves red!!!

juliekan

02-20-2009, 02:21 AM

Thanks, Texas SE

from the article:

Assistant Texas Attorney General Eric Nichols also halted many of the questions, citing an ongoing investigation by the state.

"Frankly, I'm a little hard pressed to understand why that issue is even before the Arizona court because as I understand it, the Arizona prosecutors have said that they do not intend to use evidence taken from the ranch as part of their pending cases against Mr. Jeffs in Mohave County," Nichols told Piccarreta and Wright in the interview transcripts. "But that being said, Arizona prosecutors have asked us if we would, as a matter of interstate cooperation, present these witnesses to address the issues of these two Texas search warrants."

http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/highprofileJeffs.htm

This statement is included in these court filings

There is also a new motion as of 2/13 at this site that I have not read yet (68 pages)

juliekan

02-20-2009, 04:17 AM

Texas Bluesman is back and has some good stuff going

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/

Federal Grand Jury Probing FLDS?
A court filing in Arizona leads me to believe that the Feds are presenting a case to a Federal Grand Jury on the FLDS crimes in Texas.

New Evidence of Crimes from FLDS Records
With the recently published exhibits from Eldorado, there is more and more evidence of criminal activity by the hierarchy of the FLDS. Lets take a look at some of the actions...

(oh and hi grammy)

juliekan

02-20-2009, 04:30 AM

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Arizona defense attorney Michael Piccarreta wants Mohave County Superior Court Judge Steven Conn to order a deposition of investigator Sam Brower.

In addition, Brower’s deposition is necessary “because he also had conversations with Flora Jessop during the execution of the search warrants at the FLDS property in Texas,” Piccarreta said in his filing

Once again, they're trying to "set a precedent" on whether or not the search warrants in Texas were valid. Nothing to do actually with WJ's case in AZ. Everything AZ defense attorneys have asked for has to do with the raid in Texas. C'mon, Judge Conn, get a clue.

I swear I don't know how many times I have posted this same complaint on this thread.......:glare:

juliekan

02-20-2009, 04:41 AM

The way Warren's attorneys are whining, one wonders if they have a case at all. News media reports that are crying over Texas officals refusal to answer their questions. Appears that Sen. Harry Reid's efforts to get justice dept to look into a federal investigation are paying off, guess he has President Obama's ear IMO. News media also reports that federal grand jury investigation is underway, the sounds of indictments, like Mann Act, RICO, money laundering, fraud, tax evasion, oh the list goes on. <snipped>
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705286166,00.html

Just think, Warren, Willie and the boys could end up at Leavenworth!:wink:

I'm quoting Texas Bluesman from one of the blogs(is this verboten, CW, or anyone else? Let me know if this is a no-no)
Look for Federal indictments of Warren, Merril, and the rest of the merry lads for violation of the Mann Act…

Someone agrees with you Tex........

juliekan

02-20-2009, 05:20 AM

:seeya:grammy

In an older filing from here http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/highprofileJeffs.htm

the defense(Piccareta) stated they had no intention of trying to use the info they got from deposing our LE to affect the case in Texas. Then the prosecution comes back and says we aren't using any of the info from the Texas raid against Warren. So why is Judge Conn still allowing all of this back and forth?

As Charlie Brown would say " AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG"

juliekan

02-20-2009, 05:25 AM

Hi Julie,
Yes I think there is going to be a federal investigation with the FLDS regarding the Mann Act. I think we will be seeing some big charges coming down. IMO it is about time. I am not sure where Judge Conn is coming from. Maybe a inflated ego. IDK.
We will soon see what he decided on this latest filing. I just don't see how it can fly.
It looks like to me he is trying to get the TX authorities to admit that they knew it was a bogus call in the begining which resulted in the raid. But I do not see that happening. Even if LE found out later that it was a bogus call, what they saw at the raid shows they went on good faith and as they say the rest is history.

jmoo

I guess I was writing when you posted this.

:thumbsup: post, you put the whole issue simply

*Spike*

02-22-2009, 02:59 PM

they need to break these FLDS sects up, close them down & lock them up. JMO

walton

02-23-2009, 06:37 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11750510?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com

Parley Jeffs Dutson may get a new trial. New hearing is scheduled for May 4.

I still can't find nothing on his lawyers.

texski

02-23-2009, 11:14 AM

they need to break these FLDS sects up, close them down & lock them up. JMO
just keep reading this site spike. we are all hoping that they will be closed down forever.

juliekan

03-02-2009, 12:51 PM

Texas FLDS raid may be under grand jury scrutiny

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=30069

juliekan

03-02-2009, 01:09 PM

Accused polygamist looking for legal aid from B.C.

Winston Blackmore is also trying to get his passport back

By Daphne Bramham, Vancouver SunFebruary 26, 2009

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Accused+polygamist+looking+legal+from/1330684/story.html

Gone from Blackmore's legal team is former Liberal MLA Blair Suffredine and Glenn Orris, who Suffredine said would be leading the team.

Blackmore's new lawyer is Joe Arvay, a well-known human rights and constitutional lawyer. Dealing with how he gets paid may be one of his first tasks.

One of the criteria for requiring the province to pay a defendant's legal expenses is that the case is so complex. The polygamy case is complicated and will end up in front of Canada's supreme court at some point.
But in exchange for legal funding that could run to more than $1 million, Blackmore and/or Oler will have to disclose detailed financial records.

juliekan

03-02-2009, 02:29 PM

Lawsuit against FLDS Church settled

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705288269,00.html

lawyers drafted a settlement at midnight Thursday

"The settlement agreement requires performance prior to that date, but also contemplates that the case will remain open until performance is completed. The parties expect that this case will be dismissed pursuant to stipulation of the parties prior to Sept. 30, 2009," Stewart (attorney for Fischer) and Forestwood attorney Rod Parker wrote in the settlement filing.

LLaFren

03-02-2009, 08:08 PM

Hi guys, I've missed ya'll so much, real life has totally interfered with my time here.

OT - DD got an interview for West Point, we've been scrambling to make sure we had everything we needed, I haven't had time to breathe! Bottem line, if she were to chose to go, she would be offered a scholorship that would mean that she would never have to pay back a student loan.

I've got tons to catch up on, then I'm back and posting w/a vengence!

Wish me luck!

Lisa

texski

03-03-2009, 12:27 AM

it seems that the polys think that texas law enforcement is as dumb as they are. poor girl is being used as a pawn, her baby could be anywhere by now. probably being held as a hostage to make sure the mother keeps quiet.
to not obey a court order is surely a reason for her to be arrested is it not???

juliekan

03-03-2009, 12:34 AM

The Houston Chronicle reports that FLDS teen mother pulled a fast one on the CPS by switching a baby for hers, but she's busted by DNA. DNA don't lie. From newspaper article:

"Texas child welfare authorities have asked a judge to order a 17-year-old mother from a polygamist sect to submit to a psychological evaluation after she showed up to an appointment for genetic testing with someone else's baby."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6290016.html

Ole Willie the thug says in article he dosen't know about this, well the real question for Willie the thug, is where's the baby Willie?:rolleyes:

Well my first thought was, is it THE Sarah?

The girl has been "separated" from her child? Not the first time this has happened with FLDS wives, husbands, children....

Wow, they just keep trying to #%&@ things around

juliekan

03-03-2009, 12:44 AM

State wants girl from polygamist compound evaluated
Here's Paul Anthony's article

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/03/breaking-news-cps-seeks-psych-evaluation-for-mom/

My version:

she refused to divulge the whereabouts of her infant...

Walther recessed the hearing and ordered attorneys to strike a sealed agreement in which the girl...

Instead, the motion states, she produced a baby that testing showed is not hers...

Attempts to meet again were rebuffed as the girl refused to sign an agreement ....

Further attempts to agree on a time and a doctor also were rejected...

juliekan

03-03-2009, 12:54 AM

And from http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_11821044 (brooke's interpretation)

The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services said in a court filing that genetic tests show a baby the girl brought to a meeting with caseworkers is not hers.

The state and attorneys for the girl and her mother agreed in November to a "meet and greet" where caseworkers could observe the mother and infant. The Texas AG office showed up and took a DNA sample.

"We don't know what their motives are but one thing we do know is it's not about protecting [the girl] or her baby," Jessop said.

LLaFren

03-03-2009, 02:45 PM

Hey guys, quick question as I'm catching up (whew there's alot!), they know the child is not the 17yo's, do they know who the daddy is? Did they ever get all the DNA from the guys?

Still reading TIA!

texski

03-04-2009, 12:37 AM

the texas blog man thinks that the young lady will have to go to jail friday if she does not obey the judge and bring the right baby. if she does get sent to jail, , is that an offense where the flds could bail her out real quick like they did the men?

juliekan

03-04-2009, 03:48 AM

Went to texasbluesman's website and he stated that she would be subject to being held for up to 18 months or until see complies with judge's order. He also stated that the FLDS are fixing to see Texas plays hardball. From website article: "In Texas, if you purposely defy a judge, particularly a District Judge, you go to jail. If the FLDS haven't figured it out yet, we play hardball in Texas. I would have thought that this was already apparent." Read entire article: http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/03/friday-will-be-sad-day-in-san-angelo.html

Contempt charges in Texas, means no bond, you set in jail until you comply with judges orders, you can't be bailed out on contempt charge.
The young lady from the FLDS will be forced to wear jail clothing, no house on the prairie clothes, jailed issued undergarmets and shoes. NO FLDS hairstyles & jailhouse food. She will end up in the general population, she's going to get a real wake up call, hookers, druggies, drunks, and a few felons to keep things interesting. The dregs of society!:scared:

Sad, isn't it, that there isn't a man that is MAN enough to step forward and speak up for his wife and child. We all know the decisions in this case were not hers. She was told what to do, and to stay sweet. I know (for a fact) Judge Walther doesn't want it to come to this. This is just the FLDS wanting more fodder( illegal actions by them that they spin for the press to make Texas look bad) and they could care less that they are putting a 17 year old on the altar to sacrifice. As I posted earlier from the articles:

My version:

she refused to divulge the whereabouts of her infant...

Walther recessed the hearing and ordered attorneys to strike a sealed agreement in which the girl...

Instead, the motion states, she produced a baby that testing showed is not hers...

Attempts to meet again were rebuffed as the girl refused to sign an agreement ....

Further attempts to agree on a time and a doctor also were rejected...

I don't know if bluesman is correct, but at this point, Texas has tried and tried to work this out, and no FLDS cares what happens to the mother or child or they would not have let it get to this point. All the FLDS cares about is that the father of this child does not get caught.

See ya, Teresa...........is all they would say.....keep sweet.

My heart is actually broken for the mom and child at this point (/)

texski

03-04-2009, 12:10 PM

[QUOTE=Texas-SE;12853820]Went to texasbluesman's website and he stated that she would be subject to being held for up to 18 months or until see complies with judge's order. He also stated that the FLDS are fixing to see Texas plays hardball.
your statement, fixing to see texas plays hardball, really made my day. i have been teased for years for using fixing all the time, i am fixing to send you this.
i did not know that this was not a bailable offense, surely even ole willie will not let her stay there ??? or am i just hoping he is a human being? whoever is the father should be the one in jail for rape and do you think it had to be a really high ranking flds male for them to protect him for so long???

LLaFren

03-04-2009, 07:33 PM

So a 17yo may go to Jail? Wouldn't she go to a juvenile facility because of her age?

walton

03-05-2009, 08:34 AM

http://www.historicpages.com/nprhist.htm

http://www.slate.com/id/2134918/

Recently there was an article about newspapers "down sizing" and reporters removing their names from the articles they've written.

It got me to thinking about the future of newspapers and the news media.

I enjoy reading the news no matter if it is the actual paper in my hand or reading the news via the net. I also enjoy being able to share a conversation with someone about the news.

I enjoy watching Nancy Grace asking questions when others won't. Even though I think Bill O is wrong about most things and turn the channel, I am glad his show is on the air. There are others out there that might agree with him. If anything else, he gets my blood moving.

The whole copyright thing has me confused. As everyone knows I am not a writer. While I respect those that write, I don't want to be a writer.

So the whole copyright thing has me stumped.

I've read a lot of good articles by some very good writers printed in some very good newspapers. I want to share a conversation with others that might find the article interesting. Sharing a link and a paragraph takes some of the pressure off of me concerning writing.

When I can hear Ben Winslows squeaky shoes running after a story. That is a good thing. When Brooke reports both sides of the story that is a good thing. When Randy M. shares an inside look from Eldorado that is a good thing. Paul Anthony going that one extra step and providing a link to documents about a story is a very good thing. When Trent posts his photos and his name is at the bottom.... I know that Trent took that picture and that is what he saw. No guessing, nothing doctored.

But expecting Average Joe to come up with their "interpretation" of a story it is not a good thing.

I think the Deseret News putting chains on the reporters is a bad thing. I think everyone has gotten sue happy and they should go back to the basics. Let reporters report. If they are doing their job and doing it well people won't stop reading. People won't stop buying. People will go to the source that provides the best work from their reporters.

People will stop reading/watching if they think they are being snowballed or reading fiction when they want non fiction. People will stop reading if they feel they have to work at getting the news.

But people will go where they can trust to get the Real News. My dentist doesn't work on my car and my mechanic doesn't work on my teeth.

Reporters should be allowed to report and messages boards should be allowed to share info from such said outlets with out the Average Joe having to work at it. But then this is Just My Opinion

walton

03-05-2009, 08:55 AM

texski

03-05-2009, 02:07 PM

IMO, the parents do not have control over their own children. the leader of the flds has that control and can tell any of the members of this group what to do with their children. if he tells them to marry someone, they do it. if he tells them to get rid of a wife and give her to someone else, they do it. if he tells them a male teenager is rebelling against the flds rules, they abandon him and shove him out the door. if he tells a wife to hand over the children, they are his children, not hers, to another wife, they do it. i know all of you here could come up with more examples that we have read about that already happened. this girl may very well not even know where her child was sent, after all it belongs to the daddy.

juliekan

03-05-2009, 05:31 PM

Don't forget Oprah's show on the YFZ today. and the hearing in San Angelo tomorrow.....

walton

03-05-2009, 05:39 PM

I went to the Oprah channel. No Oprah. Local Basketball Games.

juliekan

03-05-2009, 06:33 PM

I went to the Oprah channel. No Oprah. Local Basketball Games.

Yikes! I've got it recording, will watch it shortly then come back and post :smile:

juliekan

03-05-2009, 08:28 PM

Not a lot of new info for us. Lisa Ling interviewed some 5th graders that complained that "all the eggs were burnt" when they were taken from the ranch. They all said they would get married when their parents and the heavenly father told them to.

She interviewed a group of 16-18 yos (that they showed skipping together like a line of Rockettes) that refused to say how many sister wives were in their house. They also said they could say no if they didn't want to get married.

Seth Jeffs admitted he had 7 wives and stated that the church has announced there will be no marriages performed for anyone under 18.

They stated that half the families have not returned to the ranch because of the scrutiny they feel.

Willie J. was live feed from Las Vegas. He did a rambling doublespeak about how church officials have not been worked with by (govt. ?) officials regarding the marriage laws. That the law was changed just because they moved there. The 12 men have not been convicted, it's just all allegations. And that they have not been involved in underage marriage, ever. :blink: Said re: abuse of the children, that he's from Utah, and that they are always quick to report a crime and LE responds.

Lisa says after this that we need to remember that being married under the age of 16 IS NOT considered abusive by them. There were 12 girls 12-15 yo that were married.

I could make some smart aleck remarks, but I know ya'll know what I'm thinking :wink:

LLaFren

03-05-2009, 09:48 PM

Concerning the girl that "might" end up in jail.

She would be going to Eldorado jail right? More than likely she will be in a cell by her self.

Maybe sometime alone is just what she needs. Time away from a group of people that "convinced" her to swap out babies.

I am wondering about the baby that was swapped out. Who are the parents of that baby? What were they thinking? What kind of parents are they if they let someone do this? What if the courts had decided to take the baby?

They fight for their land. But they trade out babies like it is no big deal. Weird isn't it?

I can't see where being in a cell all by herself would be a good thing, for that matter, being in a cell at all :(, she's still a child, even more so with her upbringing.

Children having children do not make an adult, I've been gone awhile, but you know that I still advocate for the kids, she's a pawn in this fight and that's wrong.

walton

03-05-2009, 11:23 PM

It would appear the young lady who switched babys will not be going to jail, the judge in the case instead ordered the teen mother to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, if the folks in the white coats find her not sane, it could mean a trip to the Rusk State Hospital, but it appears she's escape jail for now. The question I have is why a mental evaluation, is some FLDS lawyer cooking up an insanity defense?

From newspaper article: "She did not appear in court, where 51st District Judge Barbara Walther granted state attorneys' requests for the testing but rejected their efforts to cancel a March 17 custody hearing."

Read entire article:
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/mar/05/judge-orders-psychiatric-testing-for-flds-teen/

Another strange twist in this case!:rolleyes:

Maybe like Rozita she just needs a little time and space to "collect" her thoughts and feelings.

walton

03-05-2009, 11:34 PM

I can't see where being in a cell all by herself would be a good thing, for that matter, being in a cell at all :(, she's still a child, even more so with her upbringing.

Children having children do not make an adult, I've been gone awhile, but you know that I still advocate for the kids, she's a pawn in this fight and that's wrong.

Spending time in a jail cell in Eldorado might not be as bad as you think. Many 17 year old children in the FLDS have a lot of "duties" to carry out in a day. Caring for their babies, siblings, cooking, cleaning, Warrens voice burning in your ear etc.

Maybe hearing Otis singing in the background in a jail cell would be a welcome sound.

Maybe some time for herself would be a good thing. Deep in my gut I know that Sherrif Doran and everyone in Eldorado LE would make sure she was taken care of properly.

I went to the Oprah talk forum and was reading the comments from those that viewed the show. Sounds like I didn't miss a whole lot. This might be similar to the Bill O. show. Enough to get the blood going and nothing other than that.

walton

03-06-2009, 01:56 AM

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_11844447
by Brooke Adams

The details of how Jeffs exercised this control -- mostly over his large family and those of hand-picked members sent to a remote Texas ranch -- are contained in pages of his daily diary. The entries are included as exhibits in a court proceeding and released as public documents by San Angelo, Texas, Judge Barbara Walther.

Amazing. They can have their committees, their sub committees and their sub sub committees but there is nothing like Awareness.

Try to get info like that across in a 2-4 hour meeting via satellite.

Now that would be a meeting I would fly to Utah to witness. And if that ever does happen someone let me know well in advance. I'd like to make an appointment with Mr. Shurtleff.

I would then like to visit with Willieboy.