Both little boys have now died from random beating

[tv4me]

I haven't seen anything on the board about this. If I missed the thread, I'm sorry. I had been hoping this story would have a happier ending.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081226/ap_on_re_us/children_beaten

I was shocked when I first heard about this and had hope the two boys might survive. I just read that the second boy died yesterday as well.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/phoenixmetro/story/Memorial-grows-for-2-young-boys-who-died-after/ftk-2FjwcUetAmgP5wLeqg.cspx

Police had at least two other contacts with Gallegos where he was referred for mental health treatment.

The court paperwork indicates an uncle of Gallegos told police the suspect had been diagnosed with schizophrenia.


Isn't it nice that he was free to roam around the neighborhood until he killed two little kids? :cursing:

What a sad horrible case.
My heart goes out to the poor little boys and their families

[JD1974]

I have a mental illness, I take medication for it. It amazes me that his family members knew there was something wrong and did NOTHING. This man even claimed that he had killed his sons prior to this, why wasn't this man checked out? IMO he was a ticking time bomb and everyone who failed to do anything about him just took a few seconds off the count. Usually the last person that knows there is something wrong with them is the sick person, why didn't anyone step in and do something about this man?

Now these 2 little boys are dead and he is in jail for killing him...maybe we should make a law about turning in someone you think has a serious mental illness, kind of like the ones for abuse.

[islandgirl36542]

Jesse Ramirez, 7-year-old....:rose:
Edwin Pellecier, 10-year-old....:rose:

Prayers for Jesse Ramirez & Edwin Pellecier, Family & Friends....:rose:

[interested]

The mentally ill have a right to refuse treatment. The article states he's had at least two recent contacts with LE resulting in medical evaluation. They knew he was a danger, they simply couldn't do anything about it.

Until and unless the mentally ill person does something illegal, there is no way to force medication or confinement on them.

I know this well as a family member has suffered since adolescence. Under 18 his parents could mandate care, once he turned 18 he had the right to refuse & does. When and if he does something terrible, everyone will look at us and ask why we didn't do anything. What the ignorant holier than thous won't bother to find out is that we've tried and continue to try any option at our disposal, we just don't have any.

The mentally ill have the right to refuse care, when they commit a crime they can blame their illness, they'll be found not guilty by way of mental illness, they'll go to a secure facility until they're stabilized and then they'll be released, so they can stop taking their medication and spiral down until they do something illegal, for which they'll be charged, found not guilty by way of mental defect, sent to a secure facility until they're stabilized and released, so they can stop taking their medication and spiral down until they............

& all of that assumes this man actually had health insurance and the means to afford whatever medication he may need. Otherwise he's just SOL and to heck with society.

The laws need to be changed.

[crocdog]

The mentally ill have a right to refuse treatment. The article states he's had at least two recent contacts with LE resulting in medical evaluation. They knew he was a danger, they simply couldn't do anything about it.

Until and unless the mentally ill person does something illegal, there is no way to force medication or confinement on them.

I know this well as a family member has suffered since adolescence. Under 18 his parents could mandate care, once he turned 18 he had the right to refuse & does. When and if he does something terrible, everyone will look at us and ask why we didn't do anything. What the ignorant holier than thous won't bother to find out is that we've tried and continue to try any option at our disposal, we just don't have any.

The mentally ill have the right to refuse care, when they commit a crime they can blame their illness, they'll be found not guilty by way of mental illness, they'll go to a secure facility until they're stabilized and then they'll be released, so they can stop taking their medication and spiral down until they do something illegal, for which they'll be charged, found not guilty by way of mental defect, sent to a secure facility until they're stabilized and released, so they can stop taking their medication and spiral down until they............

& all of that assumes this man actually had health insurance and the means to afford whatever medication he may need. Otherwise he's just SOL and to heck with society.

The laws need to be changed.

RE: "Until and unless the mentally ill person does something illegal, there is no way to force medication or confinement on them."

Yes, the mentally ill have a right to refuse to take their meds.

We, have a society, have no rights to be protected from them if they refuse to do so.

Well, now he's done something illegally.

Now, we can force some kind of confinement on him.

According to the workings of our Criminal justice System, since he is mentally ill, the most we will be able to do is to confine him for X number of years in a state mental institution.

Then some psychologists will judge him to be mentally cured, and will release him to society with medications to keep his anger dormant.

Then, as you say, since we can't force him to take his meds, he will, again, take his rage out on some other innocents who have the misfortune to cross his path.

As you say, our laws need to be changed.

Hiowever, in our society, we are no longer responsible for our individual actions, so changing our laws would be considered a step backwards.

JMHO

[interested]

Only one correction Crocdog. This man has a diagnosis, his illness is easily controlled, there are a multitude of medications that are highly effective.

They will not "confine him for X number of years in a state mental institution." He'll be put on medication which will stabilize the condition and he'll be out within weeks, not months & not years.

Once his disease is under control he'll be released. He's not guilty, he won't be held criminally responsible, once he's considered not a danger to himself or others because he's medicated, they'll release him & there isn't a dang thing you, I or his family can do about it until someone brings sanity back to the laws regarding this issue.

The ACLU does some wonderful work, this along with deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill was a mistake lacking the provisions needed to deal with the fall out before implementation. Once deinstitutionalized, there was no pressure to actually put the outpatient & housing facilities in place to deal with that deinstitutionalization. Therefore we have the unmedicated mentally ill sharing housing with the elderly because if they're eligible for SSI due to their illness they're also eligible for subsidized housing.

This decision can be held responsible for the ballooning homeless population, petty crime, domestic violence and as this case shows, so much worse.

It places our first responders in the position of having to use force in situations that shouldn't exist and family members at risk while also being assigned blame they do not deserve & while everyone is pointing the finger at everybody else, nobody is solving the problem.

[tv4me]

deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill was a mistake lacking the provisions needed to deal with the fall out before implementation. Once deinstitutionalized, there was no pressure to actually put the outpatient & housing facilities in place to deal with that deinstitutionalization

This is what needs to be changed imo. I also believe that those who won't take their medications should be institutionalized until they do, and then, they should monitored. This is a crime that could have been avoided. Once again, this is my opinion only, but the rights of the one do not outweigh the rights of the many. This crime is something that happens when they do. It can be argued that a mentally ill man has the right to refuse help, but two little boys also had the right to be able to play in the park without fear of being murdered by a mad man.

[interested]

I couldn't agree more.

[FurthurBB]

I have a mental illness, I take medication for it. It amazes me that his family members knew there was something wrong and did NOTHING. This man even claimed that he had killed his sons prior to this, why wasn't this man checked out? IMO he was a ticking time bomb and everyone who failed to do anything about him just took a few seconds off the count. Usually the last person that knows there is something wrong with them is the sick person, why didn't anyone step in and do something about this man?

Now these 2 little boys are dead and he is in jail for killing him...maybe we should make a law about turning in someone you think has a serious mental illness, kind of like the ones for abuse.

My brother had a friend with schizophrenia who killed his parents. Believe me, everyone reported him, including his parents, but, he could just stop taking his medication and check himself out of the hospital. Who is to blame here? IMO

[FurthurBB]

Only one correction Crocdog. This man has a diagnosis, his illness is easily controlled, there are a multitude of medications that are highly effective.

They will not "confine him for X number of years in a state mental institution." He'll be put on medication which will stabilize the condition and he'll be out within weeks, not months & not years.

Once his disease is under control he'll be released. He's not guilty, he won't be held criminally responsible, once he's considered not a danger to himself or others because he's medicated, they'll release him & there isn't a dang thing you, I or his family can do about it until someone brings sanity back to the laws regarding this issue.

The ACLU does some wonderful work, this along with deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill was a mistake lacking the provisions needed to deal with the fall out before implementation. Once deinstitutionalized, there was no pressure to actually put the outpatient & housing facilities in place to deal with that deinstitutionalization. Therefore we have the unmedicated mentally ill sharing housing with the elderly because if they're eligible for SSI due to their illness they're also eligible for subsidized housing.

This decision can be held responsible for the ballooning homeless population, petty crime, domestic violence and as this case shows, so much worse.

It places our first responders in the position of having to use force in situations that shouldn't exist and family members at risk while also being assigned blame they do not deserve & while everyone is pointing the finger at everybody else, nobody is solving the problem.

Well, I am not sure about that because the man I was talking about killed his parents 20 years ago and is still in a hospital. IMO

[interested]

Well, I am not sure about that because the man I was talking about killed his parents 20 years ago and is still in a hospital. IMO

Do the laws in your state allow for a finding of guilty but insane?

Is his disease under control or has he been misdiagnosed?

Does he continue to refuse medication?

Unless one of the above is the case, or he accepted a plea allowing for a commitment to a secure medical facility rather than fight the charges, he'd be released.

[FurthurBB]

Do the laws in your state allow for a finding of guilty but insane?

Is his disease under control or has he been misdiagnosed?

Does he continue to refuse medication?

Unless one of the above is the case, or he accepted a plea allowing for a commitment to a secure medical facility rather than fight the charges, he'd be released.


Well, they found him incapable to stand trial. He does not have a choice about taking his medication and he has not been misdiagnosed. I have no idea whether his disease is under control. IMO

[LisaM22]

"Isn't it nice that he was free to roam around the neighborhood until he killed two little kids?"

it's a tough one, Andrea Yates was in the same boat, do you lock people up when they may be a risk to children or if they may be suicidal, many drugs "may" cause those effects, do we lock them up just in case, what mental illnesses do we lock people up for? does anyone have a list?

[ExArkie]

My brother and his family were in this SAME position about 25-30 years ago. Their son/brother was mentally ill and absolutely refused to get help - he felt the government and his family were working for a spy agency which he had built in his mind. The family tried everything - the laws were against their every move.

He was about 26 when he married and they had one child. Then for some reason known only to him, he decided his wife had gone to the side of his family and the government. He shot and killed her and then himself. Their child was saved only because she was with her maternal grandmother that day. TERRIBLE thing! The laws need to be changed.

[cloe23]

For reasons I wont share I can't get involved in this case, at least today.
I do want to share my tenderness with all involved in this case, including the posters.
RIP little ones(you ARE in a better place) It is us left, who are suffering.

Cloe

[Heidi J.]

My brother and his family were in this SAME position about 25-30 years ago. Their son/brother was mentally ill and absolutely refused to get help - he felt the government and his family were working for a spy agency which he had built in his mind. The family tried everything - the laws were against their every move.

He was about 26 when he married and they had one child. Then for some reason known only to him, he decided his wife had gone to the side of his family and the government. He shot and killed her and then himself. Their child was saved only because she was with her maternal grandmother that day. TERRIBLE thing! The laws need to be changed.

The same thing happened to my uncle. He thought his wife was working with the CIA because she got cable TV!@! He stabbed his wife over 30 times and then went to her moms. He told the 71 year old mom, they had a fight, and she let him stay the night. The next morning at breakfast, she threw left over bacon to a squirrel on the deck. He accused her of talking bad about him to the squirrel. He stabbed her 40 times. Thank God both women lived. But he was not even put in jail! The sent him down to a psycho hospital. At his trial, the Dr. said they attributed his schizo to doing LSD as a teenager.

He was let out after 4 years.. sickened me. He was on meds for a few months and then walked into a police station with a loaded revolver to get it registered. He was arrested and spent 3 years in jail for that!!

The laws have got to be changed! These boys lives were cut short while they were playing on the playground for crying out loud.. It sickens me to no end!!!

ExArkie, just curious, did your brother do drugs at all?