Tuesday - Dec 23/08 - Morning Part 1

[destiny1]

Think of the man hours and resources that could have been saved, had LE made a more effective response to the 3 tips that would have lead them straight to the body. I will be anxious to hear how that internal investigation ends up.

they did, and cleared them and if you would look at this without anti-LE bias, you would see that first of all, one of the bags was a different color, second, one of the sightings wasn't even in the same area.

My concern about this is my question upthread about why IF there was a smell wasn't that part of the retip thooroughly investigated. I try to be objective, but see that anti-LE bias coming through on so many.

[desmom]

There was still hair on the skull according to reports. If there was and the duct tape was wrapped around the little girl's skull, hair could have adhered to the duct tape. Or if there was hair adhered to the duct tape, imo, it would suggest hair the tape had been wrapped around her mouth and caught hair up in it--or wrapped somewhere on her skull. I would think it would be on the mouth, IMO.

mho

I think the duct tape was wrapped around the skull covering the eyes, nose and mouth. jmo

[aubrey04]

I am not seeing an appellate issue. He certainly couldn't claim ineffective counsel since he brought in the world famous scheme team. Motions to "preserve the record" make great talking points for defense lawyers and talking heads. Appellate courts will look for "judicial errors". I see no such errors. Baez is in a hole and he just keeps digging.:rolleyes:

QUESTION: Does anyone believe Baez will be the lead attorney once this case goes to trial?

What happened to Linda Kenney-Baden? If she is still signed on with the defense - she will definitely be the lead. Unless some other big wig comes in and trumps her for that position. There is no way Baden will play second chair to Baez.

jmo

[Eli]

Originally Posted by jill collins
I am not seeing an appellate issue. He certainly couldn't claim ineffective counsel since he brought in the world famous scheme team. Motions to "preserve the record" make great talking points for defense lawyers and talking heads. Appellate courts will look for "judicial errors". I see no such errors. Baez is in a hole and he just keeps digging.

One of the attorneys on NG last night said because Caseys attorneys have continued to file motions to be on site with the orange county sheriff people when they were looking for evidence and they kept being denied, those were reasons that could be called "errors"...and possible on appeal to have a new trial.

Eli

[destiny1]

I don't think there was a lack of love from her grandparents, and certainly was not a factor in her death.

On this I agree with you. Ciondy had to work. They seemed to love her. "more than casey" in her eyes IMO

[WillowInFlight]

I don't think there was a lack of love from her grandparents, and certainly was not a factor in her death.

No where in either of my posts did I even mention the grandparents.

[Stella Rose]

Playing catch up....Couldn't they save her some years in prison with a plea deal? :shrug:

I am almost certain they could, but that would require the Mother of the Year to fess up, come clean, and admit what she (presumably) did. IMO that is not going to happen. ever.

[Eli]

Originally Posted by jill collins
I am not seeing an appellate issue. He certainly couldn't claim ineffective counsel since he brought in the world famous scheme team. Motions to "preserve the record" make great talking points for defense lawyers and talking heads. Appellate courts will look for "judicial errors". I see no such errors. Baez is in a hole and he just keeps digging.

=================================================
One of the attorneys on NG last night said because Caseys attorneys have continued to file motions to be on site with the orange county sheriff people when they were looking for evidence and they kept being denied, those were reasons that could be called "errors"...and possible on appeal to have a new trial.

Eli

sorry my message begins at one of the attorneys..

[tybek]

Why do you all think Casey left the car seat in the car? If things of Caylees was dumped in the woods. I guess I was thinking out of sight out of mind. But then you have the car seat.

I think you are exactly right, out of sight, out of mind. I don't think she planned on every seeing that car again, nor did she plan on her parents getting it back. She abandoned it and she isn't the greatest at thinking things through to the end, like the fact that an abandoned car would be confiscated, traced and returned.

[Lavenia]

Why do you all think Casey left the car seat in the car? If things of Caylees was dumped in the woods. I guess I was thinking out of sight out of mind. But then you have the car seat.

I've wondered about some of these "ends she left untied", too. Stupid me kept thinking maybe she was some kind of too emotionally exhausted to deal with it but I think it's as simple as "What, me worry?"

She seemed to have a kind of "magical thinking" at the end, where she thought if she would TELL someone something, well by dog, that just made it SO! I'm not suggesting a psychosis, but I do think her thinking was getting more disordered.

[MalloryCat]

I think the duct tape was wrapped around the skull covering the eyes, nose and mouth. jmo

If it was all duct taped up, how could identify it was for sure a skull without picking it up and investigating?

[destiny1]

I am almost certain they could, but that would require the Mother of the Year to fess up, come clean, and admit what she (presumably) did. IMO that is not going to happen. ever.

She would have to allocutde, and how can you possibly take an allocution from someone pathological like Casey seriously. With that allocution comes some degree of verifiability, and I just can't see her giving them anything verifiable (nor true).

[Lavenia]

This is sad! And sounds familiar.............

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Shocking-Discovery-Babies-Dead-Bodies-Were-Badly/BsedT8m0nUmbxHokFJWBKQ.cspx

This IS terribly tragic Karen, but this does seem to be a much more typical case with an all too familiar history. Poor, poor children. :rose:

[AlohaRainbow]

I've never heard of a defense attorney setting up a tipline for the murderer to call in before. Has anyone? I guess there's a first for everything. Or maybe it's just Baez and this "dream team".:rolleyes:

To me, it sounds like they're desperate.
does anyone know if baez is offering a "reward" in conjunction with the tipline??

[destiny1]

doesn't make sense to me. people imply he's involved or that he should take a ldt but the poor poor Anthonys who did interfere with the search for Caylee, from day 31, get praised/forgiven/blindly excused for their actions.

something's seriously wrong with that picture.



I'm guessing less and less people will bother to call in tips on crimes and I won't blame anyone for not bothering ..why get attacked for doing the right thing?


LE has a hard enough time getting valid and reliable tips as it is. when someone calls in a tip, he or she is automatically under suspiscion by first of all LE, who wants to know the hows of their information, and in the case of the meter reader like so many, the anti LE factions and the anthony sympathizers. It's very difficult for all concerned.

Maybe I should reword "anthony Sympathizers" because I have compassion for them: Just don't want to see them breaking the law qand hindering investigations, IF they did. MO

[tybek]

On the one video with her great-grandfather singing "You Are My Sunshine," she looks frightened. Her eyes keep darting off to the side as tho she is looking at something (or someone) that frightens her.


mho

It didn't strike me this way, it seems like a typical video of a child trying to remember words to a song, looking off to the person "coaching" or encouraging them to perform on camera. Some kids love singing/performing, but the minute the video cam. is pulled out, they become self-conscious and more reserved or uncomfortable, concerned with doing it right, etc...

[njgirl1963]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA

[destiny1]

On the one video with her great-grandfather singing "You Are My Sunshine," she looks frightened. Her eyes keep darting off to the side as tho she is looking at something (or someone) that frightens her.

Susan Smith's children looked loved and cared for, and she ran a car off the ramp and let those dear little boys drown in dark waters.

I am not suggesting it was premeditated murder, but I don't base it on the little girl looking loved and cared for. . I think it could have been an accident, and Casey panicked. . However, my mind is open to premeditated murder. I need to wait for the evidence to come out at trial.

What concerns me is Casey will not get a fair trial. We all deserve a fair trial.:patriot:

mho
If she is darting her eyes and looking frightened, it is probably because although she has been to the nursing home, it is basicly unfamiliar. Probably lots of new stimuli plus the camera.

[WillowInFlight]

That doesn't mean I can't. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I guess it just still really angers me that Caylee was probably killed because her grandparents did love her so much, My initial post had more to do with the outpouring of love from complete strangers.

[MalloryCat]

On the one video with her great-grandfather singing "You Are My Sunshine," she looks frightened. Her eyes keep darting off to the side as tho she is looking at something (or someone) that frightens her.

Susan Smith's children looked loved and cared for, and she ran a car off the ramp and let those dear little boys drown in dark waters.

I am not suggesting it was premeditated murder, but I don't base it on the little girl looking loved and cared for. . I think it could have been an accident, and Casey panicked. . However, my mind is open to premeditated murder. I need to wait for the evidence to come out at trial.

What concerns me is Casey will not get a fair trial. We all deserve a fair trial.:patriot:

mho

Oh, you mean that song where Caylee substituted her sunshine to nans sunshine, her loving grandma, and she also looked at her grandma at that point with a ton of love. Can you really capture a childs true demeanor from a snippet of film that documents just a few minutes in ones life? How about all the pictures there are of her where she is happy, were they all staged?

Its so sad that some people question if Cindy and George really loved that little angel, like any of us here loved her more, give me a break.

I would love to see anyone argue successfully with so much proof that her grandparents did not love her, everyone did, and the person who should of loved her the most didn't and was jealous of her, so maybe everyone should of just loved Caylee less, Jesse, Cindy, and George and maybe she would still be alive today, I think thats more like it.

jmo

Yuck.

[Mimi428]

ITA, so I'm back to my original question, what is going to be their defense do you think?

Their defense is going to be:

PROVE IT.

PROVE that the child was murdered.

PROVE that the child was murdered by my client.

PROVE it.

Whatever the prosecution offers, they will have an alternative to offer as a possibility.

Is the child dead? Yes. Doesn't prove she was murdered.

Does my client lie? Yes. Doesn't prove she is a murderer.

The prosecution says the forensics show X, Y & Z? Well, the results were contaminated, the proper procedures were not followed, therefore we must disregard ....yadda, yadda, yadda.

The burden is on the prosecution to PROVE guilt. No burden on the defense to prove innocence.

[bballgrl]

Heres a crazy thought. I think she will end up confessing to it being an accident, and a possible plea with her spending the majority of her life in prison, with a chance of parole a long way down the line.

So how does this equate to Baez "it will all make sense when this goes to trial and you hear the whole story"? The story of an accidental death might be believable.. but how about each and every single lie from there on??????? Hard to explain Mr Baez!

[Lavenia]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA

Welcome njgirl! :seeya: I think Casey was pretty adept at keeping her "affairs" separate for her needs. IIRC, she told Jesse her only other RS had been with a guy in HS prior to him and he has only learnedof all the new stuff as everyone else has.

[Stella Rose]

It didn't strike me this way, it seems like a typical video of a child trying to remember words to a song, looking off to the person "coaching" or encouraging them to perform on camera. Some kids love singing/performing, but the minute the video cam. is pulled out, they become self-conscious and more reserved or uncomfortable, concerned with doing it right, etc...

I don't know, but I'm with mcannie on this one. I have always been troubled by that video. Something just seemed off. Granted, I (obviously) never knew Caylee, never witnessed her personality first hand, but something in her eyes in that video really bothers me.

[desmom]

Think of the man hours and resources that could have been saved, had LE made a more effective response to the 3 tips that would have lead them straight to the body. I will be anxious to hear how that internal investigation ends up.

A lot of manpower hours could have been saved if Casey told the truth.

IMO, the bag in August was not the same bag in December.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18315429/detail.html#-

It's unknown what the area looked like on August 11, the first day the meter reader called and reported seeing a gray bag

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/caylee_anthony/17.html

The remains were found in a black plastic trash bag. Earlier in the investigation, sheriff's detectives found a black plastic trash bag in the trunk of Casey Anthony's white Pontiac.

[Mimi428]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA

Jesse did not have sex with Casey until AFTER she got pregnant. The entire time of her pregnancy, he did not believe she was pregnant by him.

Casey, being the lying liar that she is, insisted Jesse was the father. Right until the DNA results came back showing there was essentially ZERO chance he was the father. Then she changed her story & told Jesse she had a one-night stand with someone, she regretted that it happened, she didn't want any part of the guy or for him (whoever the heck he was/is) to be in her life & Caylee's life.

I believe Jesse when he said he loved Caylee from the moment of her birth - & that it did not matter to him who the bio dad really was.

[Lavenia]

So how does this equate to Baez "it will all make sense when this goes to trial and you hear the whole story"? The story of an accidental death might be believable.. but how about each and every single lie from there on??????? Hard to explain Mr Baez!

It will all make sense and if you call the tip-line and clue me in to how it will, I would appreciate it! :blink:

[MalloryCat]

So how does this equate to Baez "it will all make sense when this goes to trial and you hear the whole story"? The story of an accidental death might be believable.. but how about each and every single lie from there on??????? Hard to explain Mr Baez!

I chalk Baezs embarrassing statements up along the same lines as Scott Petersons crappy opening statements about men in vans and all that stuff that Lawyers run with when they have evil delusional clients who think they are smarter than everyone.

jmo

[Jeepers]

This IS terribly tragic Karen, but this does seem to be a much more typical case with an all too familiar history. Poor, poor children. :rose:

This is so sad. Caylee was not the first and as we see she won't be the last sad case of children being murdered by their parent(s). These two babies and countless others are a reflection of our society.
Instant gratification, no responsibility to themselves, their children or others.Somehow a world of meism has been created. Are people so indifferent they see the abuse, they notice that these parents are not treating their children right yet they do nothing then are so tore up and bent when something happenes to the child why are they surprised. What did they think the outcome would be? Go on TV spinning more lies, dialing for dollars to raise money for funerals when they should have been seeking treatment for their nut job family members before these children were murdered.

[aubrey04]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA

Well, Jesse said that when Casey told him he was the father of Caylee - he had doubts and that's why he got the DNA test. The timing of when they first started their sexual relationship and Caylee's conception did not add up. So Jesse probably did not know who Casey was sleeping with at the time.

Also, Casey seemed to get around. She was still sleeping with Ricardo when she started sleeping with Tony Lazarro.. and she was sleeping with Anthony Rusciano (the ex-cop) during that time too. I don't think Casey even knows who Caylee's father is.

As for Jesse not being mad @ Casey.. She's a smooth talker.. I am sure he was upset but Casey lured him back into her trap.

[WillowInFlight]

I think it would be harder to explain a nanny story.

ITA, which is why I think they are going to back off of that. How can you bring up someone that only exsited in Casey's mind.

[Regina.Lampert]

Think of the man hours and resources that could have been saved, had LE made a more effective response to the 3 tips that would have lead them straight to the body. I will be anxious to hear how that internal investigation ends up.

Well, if you're going down that road, add in the momster and how much she could save the state of Florida by coughing up the truth.

BTW, Unless and until someone with common sense has an opportunity to speak to this defendant, she will absolutely NEVER confess. She will stick to the nanny story right thru the time when the foreman announces to the court: Guilty, first degree murder. imo.

[aubrey04]

It's nuts. Let's suspect everyone except the people the victim was related to, and with whom she lived.

Exactly.. :shrug: .. I just don't get it.

[desmom]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA

Welcome to the Boards.

Jesse talked about it on Greta' show last night. Here is a link to the transcript: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,471424,00.html

[FoxySly]

I'm still having concerns about the meter-reader.

I see bags all the time, but I don't call 911....especially three days in a row. He HAD to have looked in the bag and saw something, right?

Now...if thats the case, it would not matter if his route was changed or not...he would not wait four months to be re-assigned to look for the bag again, or contact LE on what became of it.

What am I missing?


A lot.

Faye came through & covered everything with high water that stayed around for months.

Not only could that amount of water hide the trash bags it could also move it. IMO

Sly

[Dogmatic]

Heres a crazy thought. I think she will end up confessing to it being an accident, and a possible plea with her spending the majority of her life in prison, with a chance of parole a long way down the line.

If the duct tape rumor is true, accidental death goes out the window.

[tybek]

I don't know, but I'm with mcannie on this one. I have always been troubled by that video. Something just seemed off. Granted, I (obviously) never knew Caylee, never witnessed her personality first hand, but something in her eyes in that video really bothers me.

I think the other reason it doesn't bother me is because she was in a nursing home environment. I remember going to nursing home to visit my grandmother when I was young, and it always creeped me out and I found it upsetting. Strange people I didn't know wanting to hug me and kiss me...when a young child walks through a nursing home, many residents want to interact and for a young child it can be upsetting. I'm not saying I don't think she was uncomfortable, she strikes me as very uncomfortable in the video. But given the circumstances, (unfamiliar setting, probably being "pushed" to perform a song on camera and possibly in front of strangers), it doesn't strike me as unusual or particualry sinister. But that is JMO, and I could be wrong.

[SavannahStar]

Think of the man hours and resources that could have been saved, had LE made a more effective response to the 3 tips that would have lead them straight to the body. I will be anxious to hear how that internal investigation ends up.

And think about the possibly far better case against Caylee if those remains were found four months earlier. I think about that a lot. We just don't know but I think this will end up being a very costly mistake.

[Dogmatic]

Well, Jesse said that when Casey told him he was the father of Caylee - he had doubts and that's why he got the DNA test. The timing of when they first started their sexual relationship and Caylee's conception did not add up. So Jesse probably did not know who Casey was sleeping with at the time.

Also, Casey seemed to get around. She was still sleeping with Ricardo when she started sleeping with Tony Lazarro.. and she was sleeping with Anthony Rusciano (the ex-cop) during that time too. I don't think Casey even knows who Caylee's father is.

As for Jesse not being mad @ Casey.. She's a smooth talker.. I am sure he was upset but Casey lured him back into her trap.

Note to all young ladies:

If you don't know who the father is when you become pregnant, you are most likely having sexual relations with too many men.

Just my old fashioned opinion.

[Eli]

hello all ! I am a new member, but a forever lurker. I have a question. Here goes: if Jesse Grund "could have been" Caylee's bio father, and then he found out he wasn't (thru DNA), does he know who else could have been Caylee's father ? I mean if he was physical with Casey and it was exclusive, why wouldn't Jesse be a little bit confused as to why he wasn't the father? Who was Casey also physical with at the same time she was with Jesse? Also, why wasn't Jesse angry that Casey tried to pin the "fatherhood" on him. He seems like a very nice young man. So sad for everyone involved. TIA


He said last night on NG that he did not know and that Casey had told him it was a one night stand

[SavannahStar]

I don't believe the stories about the duct tape, otherwise I might agree with you.

I'm not at all sure I believe them either. Gotta hear it from the horse's mouth (LE).

[SavannahStar]

Note to all young ladies:

If you don't know who the father is when you become pregnant, you are most likely having sexual relations with too many men.

Just my old fashioned opinion.


Mine too! :thumbsup:

[Rick777]

Heres a crazy thought. I think she will end up confessing to it being an accident, and a possible plea with her spending the majority of her life in prison, with a chance of parole a long way down the line.

I don't see her confessing anything. She could have done this early on.

[Dells]

JB is crazy if you ask me. Hey killer, if you got the time and call in and tell me how you killed caylee. Does he think we are that stupid? He is very far from a professional attorney. Amateurish at best. The anthonys and him deserve each other.

I agree w/you. I really question a lot of the decisions he has made. The tip line is just ridiculous. If someone actually had some important information about Caylee's disappearance and murder, then they should be calling LE, not JB's tip line. It's just all for show and he is trying to sway public opinion. He said before that Casey deserves a fair trial. That is true, but he is turning this whole thing into a circus.

I just wish Casey would tell the truth now. She has ruined so many lives. It seems that everybody that knew her now has an attorney. Plus, there was so much money wasted searching for Caylee and now a lot of money is going to be spent on the trial. All along she could have ended this whole thing by telling the truth and telling everybody what she did to Caylee. Not only the money, but the trial is going to be ugly. She is going to put everybody through so much pain and heartache. It won't even be worth it because she will never get away w/this crime. At the very least, she will be spending most of her life in jail.

[trich]

He said last night on NG that he did not know and that Casey had told him it was a one night stand

I suspected that from the very beginning.
Casey does not have a clue who the father is....
The story about the Dad being dead was all a lie that I am sure Cindy
cooked up...just another truth that the family did not want to admit.
Shoot they never ackowledged she was pregnant for 7 months.:shrug:
Just more proof that this family does not know how to deal with life.

[BobbisAngel]

you are so right-- this is going to cause major problems for the prosecution you can be sure


How will it cause major problems for the Prosecution? It's so obvious that the defense has no defense and are desperate to find someone to hang this murder on. It won't work of course.

[Stella Rose]

I think the other reason it doesn't bother me is because she was in a nursing home environment. I remember going to nursing home to visit my grandmother when I was young, and it always creeped me out and I found it upsetting. Strange people I didn't know wanting to hug me and kiss me...when a young child walks through a nursing home, many residents want to interact and for a young child it can be upsetting. I'm not saying I don't think she was uncomfortable, she strikes me as very uncomfortable in the video. But given the circumstances, (unfamiliar setting, probably being "pushed" to perform a song on camera and possibly in front of strangers), it doesn't strike me as unusual or particualry sinister. But that is JMO, and I could be wrong.

You may be right on this. I guess I am just looking for some sign of what was to come. It's hard to believe that 24 hours after that tape was made, that poor baby was gone. Ugh. It just makes no sense. I think that is why so many are looking for any signs of *anything* to make sense out of this horrible, horrible mess. (moooooo)

[trich]

I don't see her confessing anything. She could have done this early on.

I don't see it happening either.
Casey thinks she has everyone fooled as to her true nature.

[Mimi428]

QUESTION: Does anyone believe Baez will be the lead attorney once this case goes to trial?


<snipped>

I don't know about anybody else, but I don't. I do think he will be around to hand hold Casey. I think he is shrewd in some important ways - he has convinced Casey to refuse any visitors. He has isolated her conversations from everyone BUT him (or one of his assistants).

Jesse & his father have described Casey as being very clingy, very needy. I think Jose' could get on mighty thin ice if he is not able to maintain Casey's belief that he (Jose') is her knight in shining armor, only cares about Casey, what Casey wants, etc.

I also think Jose' is shrewd enough to know how to play into Casey's clinginess. I think he knows how to tap into that part of her that cannot stand to be anything but the center of the universe. I think he reassures her that she IS the center of the universe for him.

But then, he (Jose') reinforces to her that without him, she's not going to BE the center of the universe. That everyone else can't be trusted. Not her parents, not her brother, not her friends. Just Jose' & his associates.

(hope all that makes sense)

[WillowInFlight]

I don't see her confessing anything. She could have done this early on.

ITA, sitting in jail all these months hasn't seemed to faze her one bit.

[GinoA797]

Well, if you're going down that road, add in the momster and how much she could save the state of Florida by coughing up the truth.

BTW, Unless and until someone with common sense has an opportunity to speak to this defendant, she will absolutely NEVER confess. She will stick to the nanny story right thru the time when the foreman announces to the court: Guilty, first degree murder. imo.

Greta quote and I agree 100%!

[WillowInFlight]

I think you are spot on MIMI as far as Baez is concerned.

[Rick777]

Their defense is going to be:

PROVE IT.

PROVE that the child was murdered. (She didn't put herself in a trash bag)

PROVE that the child was murdered by my client. (Your client has changed her story 50 times, and honest people don't need to. Your client was the last seen with victim, We know your client was not concerned about the missing child due to photos showing partying. Your car trunk hais hairs found at the scene. etc..

PROVE it. (Don't hafta prove it. All evidence points directly at ONE person, and common sense will show you who did it.)

Whatever the prosecution offers, they will have an alternative to offer as a possibility.

Is the child dead? Yes. Doesn't prove she was murdered. (Trash bag.)

Does my client lie? Yes. Doesn't prove she is a murderer.

The prosecution says the forensics show X, Y & Z? Well, the results were contaminated, the proper procedures were not followed, therefore we must disregard ....yadda, yadda, yadda. (Can't say anything was contaminated since your experts were not allowed on scene, and to this day never have been!)

The burden is on the prosecution to PROVE guilt. No burden on the defense to prove innocence.

[trich]

What concerns me is Casey will not get a fair trial. We all deserve a fair trial.:patriot: snipped..


Oh I am sure she will get her just desserts! IMO

[eastside joe]

If it was all duct taped up, how could identify it was for sure a skull without picking it up and investigating?

Provide us a link proving an official from LE stated there was duct tape around the skull. All I have read is sources close to the investigation have stated this.

[5boxersmom]

ITA, sitting in jail all these months hasn't seemed to faze her one bit.

I know. Isn't it something that it hasn't? She seems to have been a pretty spoiled girl, loved partying and the boys. I just can't believe she hasn't done something to try to get out. Guess she knows it's a lost cause.
imo

[trich]

Greta quote and I agree 100%!

I do too!!!!

[courtsinsession]

I agree w/you. I really question a lot of the decisions he has made. The tip line is just ridiculous. If someone actually had some important information about Caylee's disappearance and murder, then they should be calling LE, not JB's tip line. It's just all for show and he is trying to sway public opinion. He said before that Casey deserves a fair trial. That is true, but he is turning this whole thing into a circus.

I just wish Casey would tell the truth now. She has ruined so many lives. It seems that everybody that knew her now has an attorney. Plus, there was so much money wasted searching for Caylee and now a lot of money is going to be spent on the trial. All along she could have ended this whole thing by telling the truth and telling everybody what she did to Caylee. Not only the money, but the trial is going to be ugly. She is going to put everybody through so much pain and heartache. It won't even be worth it because she will never get away w/this crime. At the very least, she will be spending most of her life in jail.

actually i think Casey is enjoying all this attention; good or bad it apparently doesn't matter to her; she basks in it; i think she gets a bit of a thrill from messing up all those lives including Jesse, such a decent guy. She is evil to the core IMO

[Rick777]

Didn't you post earlier that the defense will go for an insanity plea?

If Baez & Co. do go for an insanity plea... the burden of proof falls to Baez & Co.

I did, but the post above is not mine. I was just quoting the post and answering in parenthesis.

[tomsgirl]

Well she obviously wasn't loved enough. IMO

I have 3 grandaughters and I love them all more than life itself. I would never in a million years let someone watch even one of them for one day without meeting them, making sure that I knew where they lived, had their phone number and that they had all information for me and my husband in case of an emergency. How could Cindy love that child sooo much and not know ANY of this information, espically when she knew how Casey was a liar, and had to know that she was NOT even working. Some people may say that I am over protective but it just makes sense in this day and time to know as much as possible about your child or grandchilds caregivers. WHY OH WHY? JMO:crying:

[Cury-us Coyote]

Up-To-The-Minute Update
Tuesday, Dec. 23
12:04 p.m.
News 13 has learned Leonard Padilla has cancelled a memorial he planned for Caylee Anthony at J. Blanchard Park since her remains were found.
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/12/12/minutetominute_update_in_remains_discovery_12_11.h tml

[trich]

Mine too! :thumbsup:

It is quite obvious she went to bed with anyone that paid attention to her.

Maybe she felt so unloved she had to turn to sex to feel wanted and loved......hey maybe that will be Baez defense.LOL
What I don't understand.. her family appears to have always covered her lies and her thievery....does she think they did not love her when they did that....or is it just that the love now was shared with her own child?
How sick is that.

[steffaroob4]

I find it very interesting that Baez is starting a tip line, IMO he is shutting the door to an accidental death in the public eye.

The only defense casey has is an accidental death, who on earth is going to believe she gave that baby to someone or she was taken from her? Where are all the sketches of the guilty people that took Caylee? Her child turns up dead and she isn't striking back at this group of evil people, where is the revenge? I think Baez better be careful he doesn't remove accidental death from his defense, he is going to get his second autopsy and when those doctors put the time of death around June, he isn't going to have a lot of choices left.

Tip line with no phone number????:thumbdown:

[BobbisAngel]

I don't know why they dont use some of the money they got from selling videos , pictures and from the interview "licensing fees". :flamemad:

And lets not forget about the money from donations from them the public for AS's to search for Caylee.


What happened to the money from the public for searches? I can't remember any searches that the Anthonys put together to try and find Caylee. I don't remember them checking out any live Caylee tips...as far as checking the tips out in a way that would have cost money. I think they checked one out recently but didn't they also go to that city to be on LKL? He would have been paying for their trip, etc so it wouldn't have cost anything for them to view the video of the little girl.

I would guess that the donated money has gone for their living expenses and for any attorney that isn't Pro Bono. I highly doubt if any of it was spent in any way on anything for Caylee. She seems to have been forgotten for the most part. Some of it probably went to the jail for all of Casey's goodies.

[Regina.Lampert]

Their defense is going to be:

PROVE IT.

PROVE that the child was murdered. (She didn't put herself in a trash bag)

PROVE that the child was murdered by my client. (Your client has changed her story 50 times, and honest people don't need to. Your client was the last seen with victim, We know your client was not concerned about the missing child due to photos showing partying. Your car trunk hais hairs found at the scene. etc..

PROVE it. (Don't hafta prove it. All evidence points directly at ONE person, and common sense will show you who did it.)

Whatever the prosecution offers, they will have an alternative to offer as a possibility.

Is the child dead? Yes. Doesn't prove she was murdered. (Trash bag.)

Does my client lie? Yes. Doesn't prove she is a murderer.

The prosecution says the forensics show X, Y & Z? Well, the results were contaminated, the proper procedures were not followed, therefore we must disregard ....yadda, yadda, yadda. (Can't say anything was contaminated since your experts were not allowed on scene, and to this day never have been!)

The burden is on the prosecution to PROVE guilt. No burden on the defense to prove innocence.


Do you really think the Prosecution will have any difficulty whatsoever PROVING their case beyond a reasonable doubt? I sure don't.

As noted above, this defendant's best chance is to claim it was an accident and she panicked. But, she would need an attorney who actually has her best interests at heart and not ones that are out for all the grandstanding and publicity they can garner out of her trial. imo.

[steffaroob4]

Provide us a link proving an official from LE stated there was duct tape around the skull. All I have read is sources close to the investigation have stated this.

I had my doubts about the duct tape, until LE released the fact they had hair, with all that water and flooding, duct tape sure does make sense to the reason we have hair.

[MalloryCat]

Provide us a link proving an official from LE stated there was duct tape around the skull. All I have read is sources close to the investigation have stated this.

Um, read back and understand I was responding to a poster who said she THOUGHT the skull was wrapped in duct tape, and while you are at it, how about finding me a link from the LE that confirm there was duct tape around the skull, TIA.

[destiny1]

I have 3 grandaughters and I love them all more than life itself. I would never in a million years let someone watch even one of them for one day without meeting them, making sure that I knew where they lived, had their phone number and that they had all information for me and my husband in case of an emergency. How could Cindy love that child sooo much and not know ANY of this information, espically when she knew how Casey was a liar, and had to know that she was NOT even working. Some people may say that I am over protective but it just makes sense in this day and time to know as much as possible about your child or grandchilds caregivers. WHY OH WHY? JMO:crying:

I don't understand that aspect of the nanny situation either as I and other family members know who has the children in our family in their care. This sounds like overkill, but we do background checks at our own expense. George is a former detective? I would think he would have been more vigilant, but I can't judge that situation. It is too confusing and chaotic.

[Jeepers]

doesn't make sense to me. people imply he's involved or that he should take a ldt but the poor poor Anthonys who did interfere with the search for Caylee, from day 31, get praised/forgiven/blindly excused for their actions.

something's seriously wrong with that picture.



I'm guessing less and less people will bother to call in tips on crimes and I won't blame anyone for not bothering ..why get attacked for doing the right thing?

That is exactly what I have been thinking since this man has been nailed to wall, having to hire an atorney with no money to it fund it. Times are hard enough and I'm thinking I would have done the same thing if being in the area. I would have looked for Caylee. What would have happened to me. Accused of things not being believed that I was just looking with no evil intent. Peopel questioning my motives
I don't have defense attorney money. I don't want to be in the media or have them knocking at my door. I would not want any part of that
The person to look at,accuse and point fingers at is in jail.
I don't know why he found her, I don't know hard he had been looking I just know he found her. Now he is being looked at like he has done something wrong. This is wrong. This is sending out a bad message in my opinion.

[tomsgirl]

It's nuts. Let's suspect everyone except the people the victim was related to, and with whom she lived.

Amen - well said! JMO

[Remy]

*IF* there was duct tape, that is not a fact released by LE, it started with a Fox reporter. I dont doubt duct tape was present, but maybe put Caylee in the bag, and instead of a twist tie, used duct tape to keep it shut, that really sounds plausible to me, even if she knotted it, fluids may leak, so I will wait till its really confirmed, I dont know much, but I know duct tape is attached to the skin, and skin rots, and there was no soft tissue present, so it did not restick its self to the bone, its just not possible.

jmo

Hi Mallory and congrats! Even if all the soft tissue was gone there would be epithelial cells on the tape which shed off the skin.

I think that tape was used because the hair was still attached to the skull and during decomposition the hair would come lose from the follicles so that is what makes it likely to me.

I can also see Casey using the tape to the bag as well. moo

[WillowInFlight]

Up-To-The-Minute Update
Tuesday, Dec. 23
12:04 p.m.
News 13 has learned Leonard Padilla has cancelled a memorial he planned for Caylee Anthony at J. Blanchard Park since her remains were found.
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/12/12/minutetominute_update_in_remains_discovery_12_11.h tml

I don't understand why he canceled it, but I am glad he did. It isn't his place to hold a memorial.

[steffaroob4]

Does anyone have the statement about Dr. G from Todd Black????

[trich]

Didn't you post earlier that the defense will go for an insanity plea?

If Baez & Co. do go for an insanity plea... the burden of proof falls to Baez & Co.

Not only that how is Baez going to present the theory about kidnapping/nanny or even accident without Casey taking the stand?
I don't see that happening....there is no way she will get up there and answer questions by the prosecution ...at least not truthfully .
It might be interesting to hear her spin the story.

[tybek]

You may be right on this. I guess I am just looking for some sign of what was to come. It's hard to believe that 24 hours after that tape was made, that poor baby was gone. Ugh. It just makes no sense. I think that is why so many are looking for any signs of *anything* to make sense out of this horrible, horrible mess. (moooooo)

It is upsetting to watch knowing this is one of the last days she was on this earth. You got me curious so I just watched all the nursing home videos again and in the one where she is on her g.grandpa's lap where he sings "you are my sunshine" to her, she looks like she might be very tired to me. She closes her eyes a couple of times. Then on the video where she is singing, she is hiding behind the tablecloth at first like she really doesn't want to be on camera and Cindy keeps prompting her to sing. She does look over to the side, my guess is that is were her g.grampa is and at the end there is a woman on that side talking to her and asking her if she is going to be like Britney. She hides again and Cindy says something about "now you are being shy". My guess is that woman is a stranger, perhaps an employee of the facility or an attendant which would explain why she is uncomfortable when looking that way.

[BobbisAngel]

Good morning!

Did everyone catch this little exchange last night on Nancy Grace:


GRACE: Why did you two break up?

GRUND: The first time, it was because she thought that -- you know, she broke off the engagement because she thought I loved Caylee more than I loved her, which was the furthest thing from the truth. I loved them both.

GRACE: You know what? That`s the first time I`ve ever heard that. She thought you loved Caylee more than her?

GRUND: Absolutely. Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: And you know, she has similar problems with her mother, concerned that the child looked to her grandmother as her mother. So this is a recurring problem with her?

GRUND: Well, that may be a little founded since Cindy did call herself Mommy to Caylee in front of Casey before.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/22/ng.01.html

I thought this was very interesting, sounds like the momster was very jealous of that wonderful little child, Caylee. Goes to motive, imo. :angry:



It doesn't sound like Cindy called herself mama to Caylee all of the time.
When talking to my little 11 month old great granddaughter I catch myself saying "Momma will do it for you" instead of "Nana." I call myself Momma to my animals so I often slip when talking to my great granddaughter. I correct myself but no one thinks anything of it...thank goodness. Truth be known it is probably just a slip of the tongue for Cindy too but Casey takes it personally because she is so jealous of the relationship between Cindy and Caylee.

[st777jo]

And think about the possibly far better case against Caylee if those remains were found four months earlier. I think about that a lot. We just don't know but I think this will end up being a very costly mistake.

And just think if the Anthony's shoulda, coulda, woulda had taken their mother of the year to court for custody of Caylee, maybe baby Caylee would still be here.
jmo, jo

[5boxersmom]

It doesn't sound like Cindy called herself mama to Caylee all of the time.
When talking to my little 11 month old great granddaughter I catch myself saying "Momma will do it for you" instead of "Nana." I call myself Momma to my animals so I often slip when talking to my great granddaughter. I correct myself but no one thinks anything of it...thank goodness. Truth be known it is probably just a slip of the tongue for Cindy too but Casey takes it personally because she is so jealous of the relationship between Cindy and Caylee.

I do the same thing with my grandson. I too call myself mommy to my dogs so sometimes I do slip up. Thankfully my DIL understands and knows I am loony sometimes. :w00t::drool:

That is probably what happen with Cindy.

[desmom]

Re: JB's new 24 hour information line to try and find out where, when and how the remains ended up where they did. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8124064&version=7&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

On 10/15, JB said: http://www.ocala.com/article/20081015/NEWS/810152040

"I sincerely believe that when we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say, 'Now, I understand. That explains it,'" Baez, said Tuesday as he stood next to his client before the indictment was issued.

On 12/20, JB said:

"You really do not know half of this story. You don't," Baez said. "And you will find out in court."

He apparently has changed his mind about the other half of the story and everyone will sit back and say "Now, I understand. That explains it."

jmo

[Mimi428]

It doesn't sound like Cindy called herself mama to Caylee all of the time.



<bandwidth snip>

Does anyone recall right offhand whether Jesse said Casey TOLD him that Cindy referred to her own self as 'Mommy' to Caylee?

Or did he actually witness, on his own, Cindy referring to herself as 'Mommy' to Caylee?

I can very easily see Casey telling that sort of lie.

JMO

[tomsgirl]

That is exactly what I have been thinking since this man has been nailed to wall, having to hire an atorney with no money to it fund it. Times are hard enough and I'm thinking I would have done the same thing if being in the area. I would have looked for Caylee. What would have happened to me. Accused of things not being believed that I was just looking with no evil intent. Peopel questioning my motives
I don't have defense attorney money. I don't want to be in the media or have them knocking at my door. I would not want any part of that
The person to look at,accuse and point fingers at is in jail.
I don't know why he found her, I don't know hard he had been looking I just know he found her. Now he is being looked at like he has done something wrong. This is wrong. This is sending out a bad message in my opinion.

I think it was "Divine Intervention" !! JMO

[AlohaRainbow]

That is exactly what I have been thinking since this man has been nailed to wall, having to hire an atorney with no money to it fund it.
*snip*
it's my understanding that the meter reader's attorney is being provided by the utility company (no link, but that's what i recall reading somewhere)

[destiny1]

Fox news update on meter man at top of the hr. says it is coming up. Hello gogo!

What news agency?

[Ellie]

When I heard that last night I wondered why Jessie made the point of saying "the 1st time", what happened the other times?

I am betting that Casey left Caylee somewhere at some point, like Target or another store, before. Jesse said something about it in passing, like "I thought maybe she just left Caylee at Target or something". And that would explain Cindy's "is this like last time?" question to Casey. Either way I bet we'll hear about it in the trial.

[Cury-us Coyote]

I had my doubts about the duct tape, until LE released the fact they had hair, with all that water and flooding, duct tape sure does make sense to the reason we have hair.

AFAIK the presence of duct tape is attributed to alleged “sources”. OSCO has not attempted to dispel the rumor. IMO (and perhaps accompanied by wishful thinking due to the potential evidentiary value if true), duct tape was present at the discovery site with the remains. Potential reporter sources could include 1) the meter reader and/or associates, 2) the meter reader’s dispatcher and/or associates, 3) neighbors living in the discovery site area, 4) anonymous LE responders, etc.

The details of the location of the duct tape evolved (over the mouth, around the skull, inside the mouth) over time. Isn’t it just as likely the location was a loose end attached to a trash bag that draped over the remains. The absence of soft tissue may increase the probability of this scenario, IMO.

IMO, from personal observation, duct tape left out in the elements a long periods of time turns slightly white in color, the grey adhesive portion deteriorates leaving the white cloth interwoven threads.

IF toxicology tests on the trunk hairs were performed, IMO the consistent lab results should be obtained from those hairs at the discovery site.
jmho

[Cury-us Coyote]

Wonder what changed his mind and why he waited so long to announce it.

Just a guess, but maybe because the A's announced a portion of Caylee's services would be public and therefore allow Grund attendance?
jmo

[Ellie]

I think it was "Divine Intervention" !! JMO


I completely agree, tomsgirl, I completely agree.

[WillowInFlight]

I am betting that Casey left Caylee somewhere at some point, like Target or another store, before. Jesse said something about it in passing, like "I thought maybe she just left Caylee at Target or something". And that would explain Cindy's "is this like last time?" question to Casey. Either way I bet we'll hear about it in the trial.

I thought that was Lee that asked her that, regardless, I would like to know what that question meant.

[SavannahStar]

There was no reason for a family court to alter custody, as long as Casey lived in the parents home. Its unfair to suggest that the Anthony's could foretell the future, much less be able to change it.

I started to answer that post and then changed my mind. You answered it better than I could have, thank you.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Items Belonging to Casey, Caylee Anthony Taken From Home
Casey’s murder trial is set for March but legal experts say it could be 2010 before the case heads to court. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/ContentDetail?contentId=8123826

[Ellie]

I thought that was Lee that asked her that, regardless, I would like to know what that question meant.

OH! You know, you're right! It was Lee. Sorry.

[Stella Rose]

It is upsetting to watch knowing this is one of the last days she was on this earth. You got me curious so I just watched all the nursing home videos again and in the one where she is on her g.grandpa's lap where he sings "you are my sunshine" to her, she looks like she might be very tired to me. She closes her eyes a couple of times. Then on the video where she is singing, she is hiding behind the tablecloth at first like she really doesn't want to be on camera and Cindy keeps prompting her to sing. She does look over to the side, my guess is that is were her g.grampa is and at the end there is a woman on that side talking to her and asking her if she is going to be like Britney. She hides again and Cindy says something about "now you are being shy". My guess is that woman is a stranger, perhaps an employee of the facility or an attendant which would explain why she is uncomfortable when looking that way.

You are stronger than I am - I can barely sit through when Nancy shows bits of those videos. Thank you for looking that up and sharing your thoughts. It is appreciated.

[Jeepers]

I think it was "Divine Intervention" !! JMO

I believe that to be true. I just hate that this man has had to put up with the accusations thrown at him.
I hope that he and his family are doing well.
This case has hurt so many people without justification.
I hope the defense puts on a show stopping performance I hope that they leave no stone unturned. I don't want anyone to be able say her trial was not fair. I want her to have the best pro bono money can buy.
In my opinion the state has: 31 days, party pics, Little Caylee singing Sunshine, testimony from friends, testimony from parents. computer experts, telephone experts, ME, Detectives
The defense won't have enough smoke to blow.

[Mimi428]

I think you are spot on MIMI as far as Baez is concerned.

When Jesse & his dad spoke about Casey being so needy, so clingy, I started trying to remember what TonE & his friends said early on. Maybe someone with a better memory for it will help us out, but my recollection is that TonE and/or his friends remarked that Casey pretty much immediately glommed onto to TonE as soon as they met. I specifically remember one of them talking about how she started behaving like a girlfriend almost instantly.

We have also seen the videos of her clinging to Jose' as they walked from point A to point B. Initially, that did not surprise me at all, most especially considering the mob of people that they had to go through. But I am pretty sure that in at least one of those incidences, they had the opportunity to make an exit that would NOT have entailed running that media/crowd gauntlet.

We know that Jose' got her out of her parents house for hours upon hours while she was out of jail. I can appreciate that he didn't want her blabbing to everyone in the house - but I can ALSO see how he could present it to her that he was going to do everything to SAVE her from the mean parents, who would hound & harrass her with questions. Why he would work his fingers to the bone to make sure that Casey was as shielded from the meanies as she could possibly be! (that's sarcasm, folks)

Then we get the info that the jail personnel had to admonish him to put the lid on the hugging the client in the attorney room. At the time, I thought, WTH??? Surely he would have known that was not allowed before then...

Ultimately, I am thinking more & more that Jose' has been pretty shrewd & calculating in dealing with her. I'm sure he told her before they ever went out into the crowd that he would 'protect her'. I doubt he told her that she could avoided that mob by leaving out of some other door. I think he sets up & makes sure he reinforces to her that she IS the center of the universe to him, but she has to do as she is told if she wants to stay that way.

(sorry for the long post)

JMO

[5boxersmom]

Well Ia m sure he is Union. they would have to provide an attorney for anything that happened at work.

That's what I figured too. The Union provided one.

[WillowInFlight]

I started to answer that post and then changed my mind. You answered it better than I could have, thank you.

I always wondered why Casey told Cindy to stay away from Jesse, that he couldn't be trusted. I wonder if she was afraid that Jesse would tell Cindy things that Casey has said against them in the past.

[Stella Rose]

There was no reason for a family court to alter custody, as long as Casey lived in the parents home. Its unfair to suggest that the Anthony's could foretell the future, much less be able to change it.

Not a fan of anyone in this family, but you made an excellent point here. Sadly, none of them could imagine what the future would hold. Excellent post.

[SavannahStar]

AFAIK the presence of duct tape is attributed to alleged “sources”. OSCO has not attempted to dispel the rumor. IMO (and perhaps accompanied by wishful thinking due to the potential evidentiary value if true), duct tape was present at the discovery site with the remains. Potential reporter sources could include 1) the meter reader and/or associates, 2) the meter reader’s dispatcher and/or associates, 3) neighbors living in the discovery site area, 4) anonymous LE responders, etc.

The details of the location of the duct tape evolved (over the mouth, around the skull, inside the mouth) over time. Isn’t it just as likely the location was a loose end attached to a trash bag that draped over the remains. The absence of soft tissue may increase the probability of this scenario, IMO.

IMO, from personal observation, duct tape left out in the elements a long periods of time turns slightly white in color, the grey adhesive portion deteriorates leaving the white cloth interwoven threads.

IF toxicology tests on the trunk hairs were performed, IMO the consistent lab results should be obtained from those hairs at the discovery site.
jmho


VERY impressive post. You are a thinking person! :thumbup:

[Mimi428]

I hope the defense puts on a show stopping performance I hope that they leave no stone unturned. I don't want anyone to be able say her trial was not fair. I want her to have the best pro bono money can buy.


<snipped>

I'm with you in hoping that she has as fair a trial as can be had. The last thing anyone needs is a crappy trial with all kinds of issues that can be used for later appeals.

JMO

[WillowInFlight]

Items Belonging to Casey, Caylee Anthony Taken From Home
Casey’s murder trial is set for March but legal experts say it could be 2010 before the case heads to court. http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/ContentDetail?contentId=8123826

May be they won't be having a public service after all.
"Conway says there are no specific plans for Caylee’s funeral service yet, but the family says it will be private and kept secret as best as possible. Conway says they are still waiting for remains to be released".

[WillowInFlight]

Sorry SS, I quoted you when I meant to quote MrLucky regarding the Grunds.

[trt]

*IF* there was duct tape, that is not a fact released by LE, it started with a Fox reporter. I dont doubt duct tape was present, but maybe put Caylee in the bag, and instead of a twist tie, used duct tape to keep it shut, that really sounds plausible to me, even if she knotted it, fluids may leak, so I will wait till its really confirmed, I dont know much, but I know duct tape is attached to the skin, and skin rots, and there was no soft tissue present, so it did not restick its self to the bone, its just not possible.

jmo

I watched a movie the other day that showed someone being "bagged" and then duct tape wrapped around the *neck* of the body and around the *arms* so that the bag would not break. I know that this was just a movie, but if Casey was looking at movies and things for insight on how to pull this off, she may have saw something like that and thought it would be the best way to get rid of little Caylee.

JMO

[destiny1]

I started to answer that post and then changed my mind. You answered it better than I could have, thank you.

I can't see it making much difference except in case she needed say medical attention, and cindy and george were better able to make the decision. Legalities only.

[Mimi428]

You could be right. I can totally see this, but wouldn't this be grounds that IF she was convicted, it could be overturned for inappropriate council...(or whatever). I mean he would be risking his BAR right??

If the hugging incident was only ONE incident (& so far, I think that is correct) - I don't think Jose' risked much. He was scolded for it, he quit doing it.

But once it was done & he WAS scolded for it - it gives him the perfect explanation to Miss Clingy that as much as he would like to put his protective arm around her & reassure her, he just can't do it.

I DON'T think for one minute that he has or will do anything that would risk his license. I sure as heck don't think he did or will engage in anything sexual.

I just think he has a good idea of how to handle her & he has done some calculating things to reinforce the message he knows she wants to hear.

JMO

[Cury-us Coyote]

My personal feeling is that the Grund's will be invited to the private service.

JMO

JG's statements yesterday seemed too rehearsed to me. Perhaps that happens with several media appearances during the same timeframe. The part about - I'm not a medical doctor but as far as I know it takes 9 months ... sounded very familiar. IIRC the statement first came from the elder Grund almost word for word? Have not verified but kind of creepy if true, IMO.
jmho

[steffaroob4]

Anyone have the statement from Todd Black about Dr G???
I still haven't found it...

[destiny1]

I watched a movie the other day that showed someone being "bagged" and then duct tape wrapped around the *neck* of the body and around the *arms* so that the bag would not break. I know that this was just a movie, but if Casey was looking at movies and things for insight on how to pull this off, she may have saw something like that and thought it would be the best way to get rid of little Caylee.

JMO

If that was thee case, it only shows even more how heartless that Casey is. Bagging, as done usually to send a message as well as kill, is agonizing. a slow miserable death. Up to 4 minutes.

I really hope that child didn't suffer that fate.

[tomsgirl]

I believe that to be true. I just hate that this man has had to put up with the accusations thrown at him.
I hope that he and his family are doing well.
This case has hurt so many people without justification.
I hope the defense puts on a show stopping performance I hope that they leave no stone unturned. I don't want anyone to be able say her trial was not fair. I want her to have the best pro bono money can buy.
In my opinion the state has: 31 days, party pics, Little Caylee singing Sunshine, testimony from friends, testimony from parents. computer experts, telephone experts, ME, Detectives
The defense won't have enough smoke to blow.

ITA - Well said. I was getting a little nervous so thank you for reminding me of all the things that WE KNOW that the prosecution has, not to mention what we don't know that they do. GO LE!!!!!!!!! JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

From I understood when he met Casey at Kodak he did not know it but she was already pregnant. After it was revealed thru dna , he was not the father he figured he had met her 8 mths ago and it takes 9 months for a baby to birth, he confronted her and she said before him, she had a one night stand. She originally said Jessse was the father knowing she had sex with some other man, It seems she was daddy shopping. Jessie was a nice catch. gogo

Gogo, you have such a way with words. <swoon>.....daddy shopping. :loveeyes:

[WillowInFlight]

If the hugging incident was only ONE incident (& so far, I think that is correct) - I don't think Jose' risked much. He was scolded for it, he quit doing it.

But once it was done & he WAS scolded for it - it gives him the perfect explanation to Miss Clingy that as much as he would like to put his protective arm around her & reassure her, he just can't do it.

I DON'T think for one minute that he has or will do anything that would risk his license. I sure as heck don't think he did or will engage in anything sexual.

I just think he has a good idea of how to handle her & he has done some calculating things to reinforce the message he knows she wants to hear.

JMO

Actually I think he was talked to about it twice, after he did it the first time they talked to him, after the second they scolded him.

[trt]

If that was thee case, it only shows even more how heartless that Casey is. Bagging, as done usually to send a message as well as kill, is agonizing. a slow miserable death. Up to 4 minutes.

I really hope that child didn't suffer that fate.

That wasn't what I was thinking. My theory is that it was post mortem. The movie I was watching was also done post mortem.

JMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Mimi, Jesse did tell LE early on about the Mommy issue.

Also, I believe Jose was reprimanded for contact TWICE, jmo tho. :unsure:

[BobbisAngel]

Oh, ok, well i am trilled he is playing the really dumb as rocks lawyer role and going down this road with this disgusting excuse of a defense, meaning Zenaida, I am so ok with that because she is for sure never going to spend a night out in civilization, and anything less than that would not be justice for Caylee. So him being dumb gives me hope maybe he isn't really that dumb and is just assisting in the hanging of his client because its the most absurd defense strategy ever and i cant believe her legal team is going to try to sell this to a jury with a straight face.


JMO


I think that JB is patterning his defense bullchit after "Hollywood" the defense attorney for Scott Peterson. Remember all of the theorys he tried to pass off....satanic cult...homeless...people in the tan van...etc.

Of course we all know what happened there. Jurors aren't dumb people who haven't had any life experience or common sense. These jurors aren't going to buy Zanny the Nanny for a second and they aren't going to buy...Jesse did it or anyone else that the Anthony's have pointed fingers at.

I don't know about JB but he just doesn't seem to bright to me. He might be book smart but he sure isn't street smart or smart in any other way. I really believe he has a thing for Casey and is blinded of any guilt on her part. How could this sweet thing murder anyone!
He probably thinks she is just this innocent little thing that everyone has picked on and he is going to be her White Knight and save her from the big bad Pros.

I really hope that IN SESSION shows this trial. I really want to see JB in action. If they can't show the trial I hope they have Beth keep us posted like she did at Scott Peterson's trial.

[Lavenia]

I do the same thing with my grandson. I too call myself mommy to my dogs so sometimes I do slip up. Thankfully my DIL understands and knows I am loony sometimes:

That is probably what happen with Cindy.

I'll give her a pass on this, too. I remember when I was a kid (of 3) and Mom might call one of us by any of the others name until getting it right and I remember it being so funny... And now I'm lucky if I get my kids' names right on the 17th try. :scared: (not so damned funny anymore :biggrin:)

[KatieKates]

I always wondered why Casey told Cindy to stay away from Jesse, that he couldn't be trusted. I wonder if she was afraid that Jesse would tell Cindy things that Casey has said against them in the past.

I thought she was basically setting him up without actually saying the words. Cindy seemed to think that Casey was talking in codes, because Casey led her to believe so. JMO

[Mimi428]

Actually I think he was talked to about it twice, after he did it the first time they talked to him, after the second they scolded him.

Thanks for the correction. I could only recall reading that he was scolded for doing it (once).

:seeya:

[desmom]

Anyone have the statement from Todd Black about Dr G???
I still haven't found it...

I looked and could not find it. I have been MIA for a couple of days. Is it soomething that was released over the weekend? TIA

[CANDYKISSES]

Actually I think he was talked to about it twice, after he did it the first time they talked to him, after the second they scolded him.

Yup, that's what I remember too Willow. It only came out and made public after the second incident IIRC. :rolleyes:

[legalmania]

Actually I think he was talked to about it twice, after he did it the first time they talked to him, after the second they scolded him.

I find it strange that when she got out she went to his office for 8 hours a day. I know she didn't want to be hounded by mom but isn't there anyplace else she could have went?

[Barbara fl.]

I have 3 grandaughters and I love them all more than life itself. I would never in a million years let someone watch even one of them for one day without meeting them, making sure that I knew where they lived, had their phone number and that they had all information for me and my husband in case of an emergency. How could Cindy love that child sooo much and not know ANY of this information, espically when she knew how Casey was a liar, and had to know that she was NOT even working. Some people may say that I am over protective but it just makes sense in this day and time to know as much as possible about your child or grandchilds caregivers. WHY OH WHY? JMO:crying:


Only if my daughter was married and lived far away would I not feel entitled to know this...BUT, if my daughter lived in my home with my granddaughter...You can bet your life I would have had a contact for that baby sitter at all times...I would have made it a point to pick her up sometimes also....Cindy knew that this was not normal...Caylee has a sitter for a year and a half and she never even spoke with the woman once....BS in the first degree....

Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...

[WillowInFlight]

Yup, that's what I remember too Willow. It only came out and made public after the second incident IIRC. :rolleyes:

Be interesting to hear if Jose gets her a little something for Christmas.

[st777jo]

There was no reason for a family court to alter custody, as long as Casey lived in the parents home. Its unfair to suggest that the Anthony's could foretell the future, much less be able to change it.

Thats my point. The same applies to LE. If they hadn't been lied to, and had Caylee been the only situation going on, they may have been able to find her sooner. I think with all the info the public has that LE has done on this case only, I don't know what else some people think LE shoulda, coulda, woulda done.
jmo, jo

[Barbara fl.]

I find it strange that when she got out she went to his office for 8 hours a day. I know she didn't want to be hounded by mom but isn't there anyplace else she could have went?

Not where she wouldn't be hounded by the media or have conversations recorded.....But I would like to know what she did during those hours....I bet she was on the computer and also talking to Tone.....and probably Cindy, because they couldn't talk in the house they were too afraid that the house was bugged. But the lawyers office could NOT be bugged in any form whatsoever....

[nana6]

Hi All. I remember the other day someone on here saying that Casey was on the floor of her bedroom talking to Lee the night this all went down. Cindy was on the phone with LE reporting Caylee missing and Casey said to Lee that Zanny took Caylee. The poster said that they thought that this meant Xanax took Caylee. I bet this has been posted before but Casey and Lee are said to have their own language so maybe this is what she was telling him. I cannot wait for the toxicology reports to come in. Does anyone have an idea of when that might be?

[steffaroob4]

I looked and could not find it. I have been MIA for a couple of days. Is it soomething that was released over the weekend? TIA

I don't know, I was listening to a video today and heard them say Black took a shot at DR G, saying something about her looking for attention for her show on DiscoveryHealth Channel. I was just wondering if anyone had his release, since I must have missed it somewhere.

[kitty1182]

I find it strange that when she got out she went to his office for 8 hours a day. I know she didn't want to be hounded by mom but isn't there anyplace else she could have went?



She could have come to my house.:biggrin:

[legalmania]

Thats my point. The same applies to LE. If they hadn't been lied to, and had Caylee been the only situation going on, they may have been able to find her sooner. I think with all the info the public has that LE has done on this case only, I don't know what else some people think LE shoulda, coulda, woulda done.
jmo, jo

There is nothing in Cindys background that would insinuate that she was a bad mother or grandmother. At some point they had to make Casey be responsible. I am sure they are kicking themselves over and over .

[Mimi428]

I don't know about JB but he just doesn't seem to bright to me. He might be book smart but he sure isn't street smart or smart in any other way. I really believe he has a thing for Casey and is blinded of any guilt on her part. How could this sweet thing murder anyone!
He probably thinks she is just this innocent little thing that everyone has picked on and he is going to be her White Knight and save her from the big bad Pros.



<snipped>

What is leading you to believe Jose' really does have a 'thing' for her - vs. he knows how to play her?

I guess I just don't think that Jose' actually BELIEVES much of anything he spouts off about to the media. It's his JOB to create reasonable doubt. It's not like he has put his hand on a bible & taken an oath to tell the truth before the cameras start rolling.

I think he knew as well as anyone else that there was no way the court would allow the defense team to be present at the body recovery site - but as he said, 'if you don't ask, you won't get'.

He has a part to play, like an actor, at this point of the story. I think he knows how to play that part.

JMO

[legalmania]

She could have come to my house.:biggrin:

There you go, that's good of you.

[Lavenia]

Be interesting to hear if Jose gets her a little something for Christmas.

He better get her a defense wrapped up in a pretty little bow PDQ!

[cassidy]

I find it strange that when she got out she went to his office for 8 hours a day. I know she didn't want to be hounded by mom but isn't there anyplace else she could have went?

Nope. there was no other place. Under the terms of the bail out it was her house or the attorney's office. So Jose made it cushy for her and got her out ALOT for extended periods of time. He was, of course, working only on her case during those hours. <<<sarcasm>>>

JMO

[steffaroob4]

Any updates on Fox news about meter reader???

[nana6]

Only if my daughter was married and lived far away would I not feel entitled to know this...BUT, if my daughter lived in my home with my granddaughter...You can bet your life I would have had a contact for that baby sitter at all times...I would have made it a point to pick her up sometimes also....Cindy knew that this was not normal...Caylee has a sitter for a year and a half and she never even spoke with the woman once....BS in the first degree....

Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...

Hi Barb. ita. ALSO, what grandparents watch their daughter go out at night with their granddaughter and not come home for days on end? I would never allow one of my daughters to take off at night if she were living with us and take my grand daughter with her who knows where?

[NikkiG77058]

And think about the possibly far better case against Caylee if those remains were found four months earlier. I think about that a lot. We just don't know but I think this will end up being a very costly mistake.

Mistake? Seriously?? And you're going to blame LE for this? :o Puhleeze!! Had Casey, the murderer of Caylee, told the TRUTH about where her daughter was dumped, none of this would have happened. I think that is going to end up being a very costly mistake.

IMO

[Barbara fl.]

If that was thee case, it only shows even more how heartless that Casey is. Bagging, as done usually to send a message as well as kill, is agonizing. a slow miserable death. Up to 4 minutes.

I really hope that child didn't suffer that fate.


I too pray that it was fast and that she didn't understand what her mommy was doing to her.....


Casey had to be beyond heartless to do what she did with her daughter......Kill her...put her in a garbage bag and throw her away like garbage....AFTER riding around with her little body in the trunk of her car while she was able to smell her decomposing body.....

If that isn't heartless then I do not know what heartless is....

IF THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT (which I'm positively sure it wasn't)...Casey would still deserve to get live just for what she did after the death to her child...

[legalmania]

Nope. there was no other place. Under the terms of the bail out it was her house or the attorney's office. So Jose made it cushy for her and got her out ALOT for extended periods of time. He was, of course, working only on her case during those hours. <<<sarcasm>>>

JMO

Well this is just a thought do you think she might have wanted to talk to the person who got her out Lenny so she could find her child?

[tomsgirl]

Only if my daughter was married and lived far away would I not feel entitled to know this...BUT, if my daughter lived in my home with my granddaughter...You can bet your life I would have had a contact for that baby sitter at all times...I would have made it a point to pick her up sometimes also....Cindy knew that this was not normal...Caylee has a sitter for a year and a half and she never even spoke with the woman once....BS in the first degree....

Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...

Sorry Barbara, I should have mentioned that my grand daughters only live about one block from me. When the youngest one was only 4 and we needed a sitter, our pastor's DIL was recommended to us, as I had never met her(she went to another Church) MY DIL and I still went to meet her and see where she lived and exchanged all info. You just can't be too careful now a days. That is why I was so in awe that Cindy had never even seen a picture, had a phone #, didn't know where she lived for 1 1/2 yrs! Unbelievable. JMO

[cassidy]

Well this is just a thought do you think she might have wanted to talk to the person who got her out Lenny so she could find her child?

Nah. I don't think she had any interst in talking to Lenny.

[GumShoeJoe]

I think that JB is patterning his defense bullchit after "Hollywood" the defense attorney for Scott Peterson. Remember all of the theorys he tried to pass off....satanic cult...homeless...people in the tan van...etc.

Of course we all know what happened there. Jurors aren't dumb people who haven't had any life experience or common sense. These jurors aren't going to buy Zanny the Nanny for a second and they aren't going to buy...Jesse did it or anyone else that the Anthony's have pointed fingers at.

I don't know about JB but he just doesn't seem to bright to me. He might be book smart but he sure isn't street smart or smart in any other way. I really believe he has a thing for Casey and is blinded of any guilt on her part. How could this sweet thing murder anyone!
He probably thinks she is just this innocent little thing that everyone has picked on and he is going to be her White Knight and save her from the big bad Pros.

I really hope that IN SESSION shows this trial. I really want to see JB in action. If they can't show the trial I hope they have Beth keep us posted like she did at Scott Peterson's trial.

I agree , before the SP trial, all that stuff got thrown against the wall. But in the actual trial, all the defense did was attack the prosecution witnesses, trying to discredit them, then presented very little as a defense. I also expect the same thing here.


jmo

[legalmania]

Rattlesnakes are not foreign to Florida. What are the chances that the sign of evil would be where evil took place?

[Dogmatic]

Only if my daughter was married and lived far away would I not feel entitled to know this...BUT, if my daughter lived in my home with my granddaughter...You can bet your life I would have had a contact for that baby sitter at all times...I would have made it a point to pick her up sometimes also....Cindy knew that this was not normal...Caylee has a sitter for a year and a half and she never even spoke with the woman once....BS in the first degree....

Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...


I feel the need to weigh in on this issue:

If my child became pregnant at 18 and was living with me and working, it stands to reason that I would know who the childs' day care provider was.

However, I would also be giving my 18 year old a crash course of how to grow up and act like an adult real quick, so they would be as prepared as possible to raise their child.

Casey may have fed Cindy a huge line about Zanny the Nanny and how amazing she was.


More amazing than anything to me is how Casey managed to fool everyone into thinking she actually had a job. Where did she go 8 hours a day?

[destiny1]

Hi All. I remember the other day someone on here saying that Casey was on the floor of her bedroom talking to Lee the night this all went down. Cindy was on the phone with LE reporting Caylee missing and Casey said to Lee that Zanny took Caylee. The poster said that they thought that this meant Xanax took Caylee. I bet this has been posted before but Casey and Lee are said to have their own language so maybe this is what she was telling him. I cannot wait for the toxicology reports to come in. Does anyone have an idea of when that might be?

I wouldn't doubt her giving the child anything to keep her under her control, but I doubt that tox will tell us much. Dr G said that it was unlikely toxicology would render much evidence, but I am hoping that she was just being cautious.

[Barbara fl.]

Hi Barb. ita. ALSO, what grandparents watch their daughter go out at night with their granddaughter and not come home for days on end? I would never allow one of my daughters to take off at night if she were living with us and take my grand daughter with her who knows where?


Exactly....And then I read some posters say that Cindy bullied or ruled Casey......NO way....It was just the opposite, Casey got away with too much and grandparents never intervened where they should have....

I like you would NEVER let my daughter leave the house at night with a baby without my knowing exactly where she was taking her....daughter or no daughter.....granddaughter or no granddaughter.....it would not have happened in my home.....

[st777jo]

Mistake? Seriously?? And you're going to blame LE for this? :o Puhleeze!! Had Casey, the murderer of Caylee, told the TRUTH about where her daughter was dumped, none of this would have happened. I think that is going to end up being a very costly mistake.

IMO

Thanks Nikki. That was the point I was trying to get across a few posts ago. IMO, don't put the blame on LE. If anyone wants to say LE shoulda, coulda, woulda, then we also have to put the blame on the Anthony's. They knew their killer daughter better than anyone.
jmo, jo

[legalmania]

Nah. I don't think she had any interst in talking to Lenny.

I thought Lenny is a bounty hunter but on NG he has become a forensic specialist.

[nana6]

gota run bbl play nicely!!

[SavannahStar]

Mistake? Seriously?? And you're going to blame LE for this? :o Puhleeze!! Had Casey, the murderer of Caylee, told the TRUTH about where her daughter was dumped, none of this would have happened. I think that is going to end up being a very costly mistake.

IMO

Nice spin.

The only thing I blame LE for is the mishandling (IMO) of the tips in August.

Listen, Casey did not tell where her daughter was, we know that. That is fact. THEREFORE:

And I do think if those tips had been followed up on at that time, FOUR LONG MONTHS AGO, there were be FAR better evidence against Casey.

[NikkiG77058]

*Snipped*

I still keep coming back to I think Casey Anthony suffers from multiple personality disorder. It would explain so much about her actions and the sudden change of personality and thinking in Casey Anthony.

I'm just saying.


I don't know, Jan...it's hard for me to think of Casey as mentally ill because I have her pictured as a heartless monster...but I can definitely see where you are coming from. I'm just totally disgusted by what she did...

IMO :)

[KatieKates]

Nice spin.

The only thing I blame LE for is the mishandling (IMO) of the tips in August.

Listen, Casey did not tell where her daughter was, we know that. That is fact. THEREFORE:

And I do think if those tips had been followed up on at that time, FOUR LONG MONTHS AGO, there were be FAR better evidence against Casey.

So, so true! Great post.

[SavannahStar]

Thanks Nikki. That was the point I was trying to get across a few posts ago. IMO, don't put the blame on LE. If anyone wants to say LE shoulda, coulda, woulda, then we also have to put the blame on the Anthony's. They knew their killer daughter better than anyone.
jmo, jo


Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

[trt]

Nice spin.

The only thing I blame LE for is the mishandling (IMO) of the tips in August.

Listen, Casey did not tell where her daughter was, we know that. That is fact. THEREFORE:

And I do think if those tips had been followed up on at that time, FOUR LONG MONTHS AGO, there were be FAR better evidence against Casey.

So even though that area had been hit by Faye and was under water, and even though the initial reports were of a gray bag and the reports are that Caylee was found in a black bag, and even tough cadaver dogs were sent to the area in response to the tips, LE mishandled them? If the mantra is that the A's should get the benefit of the doubt because of hindsight, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that LE should have been able to find Caylee four months ago?

JMO

[GumShoeJoe]

<snipped>

What is leading you to believe Jose' really does have a 'thing' for her - vs. he knows how to play her?

I guess I just don't think that Jose' actually BELIEVES much of anything he spouts off about to the media. It's his JOB to create reasonable doubt. It's not like he has put his hand on a bible & taken an oath to tell the truth before the cameras start rolling.

I think he knew as well as anyone else that there was no way the court would allow the defense team to be present at the body recovery site - but as he said, 'if you don't ask, you won't get'.

He has a part to play, like an actor, at this point of the story. I think he knows how to play that part.

JMO
See, I just don't think he is that savy. He sure doesn't SOUND savy to me.

I think you would have to build up a pretty decent tolerance against the manipulative behavior of criminals if you were a defense attorney. Look who most of your clients would be: criminals!

He seems to me to be sort of a rookie at criminal defense, and the type that would actually fall for the stories of a manipulative client. And that is how I think she navigates through life.


jmo

[legalmania]

So even though that area had been hit by Faye and was under water, and even though the initial reports were of a gray bag and the reports are that Caylee was found in a black bag, and even tough cadaver dogs were sent to the area in response to the tips, LE mishandled them? If the mantra is that the A's should get the benefit of the doubt because of hindsight, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that LE should have been able to find Caylee four months ago?

JMO

The damage had already been done the only thing that went wrong is that they missed out on some evidence but I think they have enough as it is. The important thing to remember is that she was found.

[Barbara fl.]

I feel the need to weigh in on this issue:

If my child became pregnant at 18 and was living with me and working, it stands to reason that I would know who the childs' day care provider was.

However, I would also be giving my 18 year old a crash course of how to grow up and act like an adult real quick, so they would be as prepared as possible to raise their child.

Casey may have fed Cindy a huge line about Zanny the Nanny and how amazing she was.


More amazing than anything to me is how Casey managed to fool everyone into thinking she actually had a job. Where did she go 8 hours a day?


I believe that Cindy was trying hard love with Casey and trying to push her into be responsible.....But, I would know my child well enough to know that she was not mother material....I would have been worried constantly of Caylee being neglected....I would not have been able to sleep while Caylee was not at home....

I always believed that a child should go to sleep in their own bed every night and wake up in their own bed in the morning...It gives the child the sense of security....

Even if I didn't want to take on the responsibility of raising my grandchild....I would have done so just for the peace of mind....

When I hear some posters say that the grandmother would have no control of what Casey did with Caylee...it boils my blood...because I been there and did that....and am not sorry for it till today....infact when I hear stories like this....I am so thankful that I did what I did...

[NikkiG77058]

Nice spin.

The only thing I blame LE for is the mishandling (IMO) of the tips in August.

Listen, Casey did not tell where her daughter was, we know that. That is fact. THEREFORE:

And I do think if those tips had been followed up on at that time, FOUR LONG MONTHS AGO, there were be FAR better evidence against Casey.

No spinning here - I will leave that to you, SS. I agree that had she been found 4 months ago that there could be better evidence against Casey, BUT I think it's kind of pointless at this point...she has been found NOW and the evidence STILL points directly to Casey. You following my point of view? I just think that instead of blaming LE or the Anthonys or whoever else, we need to put the blame where it belongs - solely on Casey. IMO

[st777jo]

Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

I don't really know what went down on those tips. But to put it off on LE, not buying that part unless you want to put the fault way back on casey's parents for what casey did long before she did murder Caylee. I am not saying the anthony's knew this would happen, but they knew what kind of daughter she was. And now we know how the anthony's are.
jmo, jo

[GumShoeJoe]

JG's statements yesterday seemed too rehearsed to me. Perhaps that happens with several media appearances during the same timeframe. The part about - I'm not a medical doctor but as far as I know it takes 9 months ... sounded very familiar. IIRC the statement first came from the elder Grund almost word for word? Have not verified but kind of creepy if true, IMO.
jmho

I almost hate to say it, but I thought so, too.


jmo

[Barbara fl.]

I thought Lenny is a bounty hunter but on NG he has become a forensic specialist.


Lenny thinks he is alot of things....He really needs to stay out of this whole thing and go back to California......

[Regina.Lampert]

I wouldn't doubt her giving the child anything to keep her under her control, but I doubt that tox will tell us much. Dr G said that it was unlikely toxicology would render much evidence, but I am hoping that she was just being cautious.

Didn't Dr. G. say that she doubted any tox results levels would give her anymore info as to the cause of death? I took that to mean that they may obtain results that told them certain drugs were in Caylee's system, but that the levels would not show how much or if they led to her death.

I am praying that if this angel was given xanax it shows up.

[NikkiG77058]

Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

This is where we are missing each other - You keep saying that IF LE HAD followed up in August - LE DID follow up on the tips in August...they were just unable to locate her body. IMO

[trt]

I almost hate to say it, but I thought so, too.


jmo

I guess I'm missing it. Why would a statement that was similar to his father's statements be creepy? No doubt they have talked about this 1000 times since Jessie took the DNA test and 3000 more since Caylee went missing. Naturally, they will have similar thoughts about it? JMO

[Dogmatic]

Hi Barb. ita. ALSO, what grandparents watch their daughter go out at night with their granddaughter and not come home for days on end? I would never allow one of my daughters to take off at night if she were living with us and take my grand daughter with her who knows where?

Double edged sword. Casey is an adult, fully capable of making her own decisions and telling her parents to back off.

I agree that it appears the situation got very out of control. It may sound mean, but if my child and grandchild were living with me, and my child was working full time, there would be a strict accounting of the savings my child was setting aside, to make sure that they were making progress to become independent.

I would also not stand for my 18 year old daughter to let the father of the child go without helping to financially support the child.

This whole situation is a bit of a mess, oversights, lack of "big picture thinking" IMO

[WillowInFlight]

Lenny thinks he is alot of things....He really needs to stay out of this whole thing and go back to California......

ITA there really isn't anything more Lenny can add. Time to go home.

[legalmania]

I think that the hardest thing to prove is intent. I am seeing enough for second degree but not first. Of course this is only from what I've heard when all the evidence is in them may get a first.

[SavannahStar]

After yesterdays show on Nancy Grace with Jesse, I keep thinking about what Jesse said about this not being the same Casey that he knew and loved. I keep going back to how he is saying that Casey was a loving and devoted mother and I saw the video on the myspace link I posted yesterday with Casey playing with Caylee on the floor. And with the attorney telling the media that they don't know the half of this story.

I still keep coming back to I think Casey Anthony suffers from multiple personality disorder. It would explain so much about her actions and the sudden change of personality and thinking in Casey Anthony.

I'm just saying.

I don't know. I just don't know. What I DO know is we've heard from more than just one person that Casey changed drastically. I keep going back to all that too. I can't explain it. Something changed her.

[desmom]

I don't know, I was listening to a video today and heard them say Black took a shot at DR G, saying something about her looking for attention for her show on DiscoveryHealth Channel. I was just wondering if anyone had his release, since I must have missed it somewhere.

Okay, I have googled it every way I can think of and did not have any luck.

Didn't the new attorney (Baden) say something about Dr. G and her program while arguing for their experts to assist in the autopsy?

[MalloryCat]

No spinning here - I will leave that to you, SS. I agree that had she been found 4 months ago that there could be better evidence against Casey, BUT I think it's kind of pointless at this point...she has been found NOW and the evidence STILL points directly to Casey. You following my point of view? I just think that instead of blaming LE or the Anthonys or whoever else, we need to put the blame where it belongs - solely on Casey. IMO


Yes, you are right, and in a perfect world that would be it with this case, but the fact 3 tips were called in and they went to an area and did not discover the body, assuming they looked in that area at the time, Like they were supposed to, the Defense is going to shout from the roof, the LE was there, they didn't see anything, I dont think anyones happy about it, but its there.


jmo

[destiny1]

Rattlesnakes are not foreign to Florida. What are the chances that the sign of evil would be where evil took place?
That is a very good observation. we found one unexplainably at a murder scene in a residential area once. It was odd in that particular location as it was residential and nobody had seen a rattlesnake there since the property was bulldozed for subdivision. Now how far was Caylee's body from residences?

[Mimi428]

See, I just don't think he is that savy. He sure doesn't SOUND savy to me.

I think you would have to build up a pretty decent tolerance against the manipulative behavior of criminals if you were a defense attorney. Look who most of your clients would be: criminals!

He seems to me to be sort of a rookie at criminal defense, and the type that would actually fall for the stories of a manipulative client. And that is how I think she navigates through life.


jmo

I certainly think he is in way over his head - or will be when it comes to time in the courtroom. But he has other attorneys better suited for that - LKB, as an example.

ITA with you that he has probably met up with plenty of manipulative clients, but in a way, I think that may be why he has been (or appears to be) successful in keeping his client quiet & refusing to accept visitors. I think the average person locked up in jail would be jumping out of their skin, anxious for a visitor, waiting every day for the mail to arrive, spending time writing to anyone they thought might be sympathetic. Yet Casey has been compliant in not making phone calls & not accepting visitors.

I don't think he is particularly suave or polished on camera. And I have definitely laughed out loud at some of the preposterous claims he has made ON camera. But I also don't think, not for one minute, that he BELIEVES the stuff he is saying.

JMO

[Regina.Lampert]

Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

OCSD did follow up on the tips, hence the two sheriff's deputies arriving on the scene. It has yet to be determine what action they took, that is coming shortly, imo.

[legalmania]

Lenny thinks he is alot of things....He really needs to stay out of this whole thing and go back to California......

Yes I see no need for him to stay. Sorry California but your gonna have to take Lenny back.

[MalloryCat]

I don't know. I just don't know. What I DO know is we've heard from more than just one person that Casey changed drastically. I keep going back to all that too. I can't explain it. Something changed her.

Untreated post partum depression?

[steffaroob4]

I wonder why Baez hasn't picked up the rest of LE tips yet. If there were 3 tips to the actual spot back in August, I sure would want to know if there was any more. I find it odd, what if there was a tip from a neighbor in there seeing something odd in the area...
These tips could be a gold mine for him to show a sloppy LE investigation.

[GumShoeJoe]

The damage had already been done the only thing that went wrong is that they missed out on some evidence but I think they have enough as it is. The important thing to remember is that she was found.


I agree. Law enforcement is only human,too. I am getting tired of people thinking LE has to be robotically perfect and 150% thorough while looking for a needle in a haystack (for how many months) to get a conviction, otherwise claiming it is cause for reasonable doubt. I don't think it is. It is simply not realistic to expect that, imo



jmo

[Regina.Lampert]

Okay, I have googled it every way I can think of and did not have any luck.

Didn't the new attorney (Baden) say something about Dr. G and her program while arguing for their experts to assist in the autopsy?

Yes, someone on the defense team took a shot at Dr. G. I suggest you research on the forum, because we all discussed it at that time. Good luck Des.

[Lavenia]

See, I just don't think he is that savy. He sure doesn't SOUND savy to me.

I think you would have to build up a pretty decent tolerance against the manipulative behavior of criminals if you were a defense attorney. Look who most of your clients would be: criminals!

He seems to me to be sort of a rookie at criminal defense, and the type that would actually fall for the stories of a manipulative client. And that is how I think she navigates through life.


jmo

I agree! Although I think he is a complete and total opportunist, I don't think he has any idea what he's up against with this one! It takes either a pretty fair time of immersion in a culture of this "kind" of people to "get" it, and/or you're that way yourself and you recognize the beast, IMO. I think when he's an old guy, if he makes it :ohmy:, he'll marvel at his naivete'.

[legalmania]

That is a very good observation. we found one unexplainably at a murder scene in a residential area once. It was odd in that particular location as it was residential and nobody had seen a rattlesnake there since the property was bulldozed for subdivision. Now how far was Caylee's body from residences?

I don't know. When you look at the site it looks like Caylee was left by the side of the road like 10ft maybe. But when you look at the crime scene it's a lot more.

[Stella Rose]

Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

In LE's defense, did you see some of those tips that were called in? I read through the PDFs in the document dump and it was a joke. Psychics, visions, dreams, feelings... not to add to it all of the "sightings" the Anthony family themselves were calling in - sadly LE had their hands full.

Did they miss a credible tip? It appears so, but IMO, it was probably like trying to find a particular needle in a pile of needles.

[Barbara fl.]

So even though that area had been hit by Faye and was under water, and even though the initial reports were of a gray bag and the reports are that Caylee was found in a black bag, and even tough cadaver dogs were sent to the area in response to the tips, LE mishandled them? If the mantra is that the A's should get the benefit of the doubt because of hindsight, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that LE should have been able to find Caylee four months ago?

JMO


Seeing as the meter reader first saw the bag in August....after Caylee was first arrested...but was ONLY in jail a short time before Lenny Padilla bailed her out....We can just as much blame Lenny Padilla for interferring with the search....For having someone at Casey's house constantly....for bringing the search to another area in Blanchard Park and hireing his own divers because he wanted to make the find...

The LE had nothing to go on but a bunch of lies and outsiders interferring.....I do not blame LE one bit....They did everything in their power to find Caylee....They are not psychics or mind readers like LP thinks he is.....

I believe that if LE would have been able to handle this case without the LP's they might have been able to locate this body sooner...


JMO

[steffaroob4]

Okay, I have googled it every way I can think of and did not have any luck.

Didn't the new attorney (Baden) say something about Dr. G and her program while arguing for their experts to assist in the autopsy?

Yes, that is why the Black quote caught my attention, let me see if I can find the video I heard talk about it today, brb.

[WillowInFlight]

I don't know. I just don't know. What I DO know is we've heard from more than just one person that Casey changed drastically. I keep going back to all that too. I can't explain it. Something changed her.

I wonder if it was the fact the Caylee was getting older and required more attention, or that fact that among Casey's group she was the only one that had a child. I also think the older Caylee got the more responsible Cindy wanted Casey to be.

[GumShoeJoe]

snip

I don't think he is particularly suave or polished on camera. And I have definitely laughed out loud at some of the preposterous claims he has made ON camera. But I also don't think, not for one minute, that he BELIEVES the stuff he is saying.

JMO

Well do me a favor and please keep telling me that and you will help me stop banging my head off of the wall every time I hear him talk about this case!


jmo

[NikkiG77058]

Yes, you are right, and in a perfect world that would be it with this case, but the fact 3 tips were called in and they went to an area and did not discover the body, assuming they looked in that area at the time, Like they were supposed to, the Defense is going to shout from the roof, the LE was there, they didn't see anything, I dont think anyones happy about it, but its there.


jmo

I totally understand what you are saying Mallory - I just don't see how the jury could possibly buy this being LE's fault, assuming they searched the area where she was ultimately found. I've heard the grass and undergrowth would have made it difficult to see the bag and then the flood waters obvioulsy hindered the search...I just don't think LE should have to take responsibility for this - they looked and didn't see her. IMO

[legalmania]

In LE's defense, did you see some of those tips that were called in? I read through the PDFs in the document dump and it was a joke. Psychics, visions, dreams, feelings... not to add to it all of the "sightings" the Anthony family themselves were calling in - sadly LE had their hands full.

Did they miss a credible tip? It appears so, but IMO, it was probably like trying to find a particular needle in a pile of needles.

Remember the ping way far away. They had to take themselves out of the box to follow all tips. From Texas to Georgia it was a very hard time for that department.

[NikkiG77058]

OCSD did follow up on the tips, hence the two sheriff's deputies arriving on the scene. It has yet to be determine what action they took, that is coming shortly, imo.

Hey SHRIMP!! :)

Hopefully, they'll tell us WHERE they searched...I think this will answer a lot of our questions. IMO

[5boxersmom]

I remember when TES first came to town and TM talking about how easy it was to miss something that could be right in front of you.

We are not even sure if the calls in August were the remains.

[MalloryCat]

In LE's defense, did you see some of those tips that were called in? I read through the PDFs in the document dump and it was a joke. Psychics, visions, dreams, feelings... not to add to it all of the "sightings" the Anthony family themselves were calling in - sadly LE had their hands full.

Did they miss a credible tip? It appears so, but IMO, it was probably like trying to find a particular needle in a pile of needles.

Considering most were from psychics, you would think a possible bag in the area a half mile from a missing childs home would be a bit more of a credible tip to go check up on, considering the tip was made 3 days in a row, the guy seemed persistent about the location, I would give that a higher priority than a call coming in based on a vision of a body by certain flowers in an unknown area, but thats just me.

jmo

[daHawg]

Didn't Dr. G. say that she doubted any tox results levels would give her anymore info as to the cause of death? I took that to mean that they may obtain results that told them certain drugs were in Caylee's system, but that the levels would not show how much or if they led to her death.

I am praying that if this angel was given xanax it shows up.
Yup she sure did and also I think anything that shows up other than chloroform since chloroform does occur naturally in the decomp process that they may be able to change the COD to pehaps overdose. If xanax IS found regardless of the level in her system now they can definitely prove that Caylee was never prescribed xanax by her pediatrician. Or any drugs that do not occur during decomp. The tox report I think will be telling if any levels of anything show up other than chloroform.

[NikkiG77058]

Untreated post partum depression?

Almost 3 years later? I'll have to check on that...I thought post partum depression affected you pretty soon after birth. I do not have children so this is something I'll have to look in to...Good call though - even though I'm not sure that I buy it just yet. IMO

[Barbara fl.]

I agree! Although I think he is a complete and total opportunist, I don't think he has any idea what he's up against with this one! It takes either a pretty fair time of immersion in a culture of this "kind" of people to "get" it, and/or you're that way yourself and you recognize the beast, IMO. I think when he's an old guy, if he makes it :ohmy:, he'll marvel at his naivete'.


I will go along with the "mirror image" notion....I'm a firm believer that "you see in others what you yourself are capable of doing"...Lenny doesn't offer an opinion on his feelings....He states it to be factual...I'm surprised that he hasn't been issued a gag order (just kidding of course).....but he does need to keep his opinions as being opinions only..

[legalmania]

I remember when TES first came to town and TM talking about how easy it was to miss something that could be right in front of you.

We are not even sure if the calls in August were the remains.

Unfortunately the defense will use that as part of their defense.

[destiny1]

I don't know. When you look at the site it looks like Caylee was left by the side of the road like 10ft maybe. But when you look at the crime scene it's a lot more.
when you look at the pictures of the memorial and look past the memorial, it looks like a movie set for a horror movie with the bare tree trunks and roots and all that mud combined with the vegetative overhang that is left. To me, that place reeks of evil.

[Zeus]

Lenny thinks he is alot of things....He really needs to stay out of this whole thing and go back to California......

I don't know why anyone is still giving Lenny air time. I know many praised him for at least looking for Caylee which was more than the Anthonys were doing but how much looking did he actually do? He talked a lot about his planned searches but as I recall, the only search he actually participated in was the one when he hired the divers (and he sat on the sidelines, looking at his beads that he swore matched the ones Casey had in her room). Did HE actually ever do any searching? He's more talk than action.

[MalloryCat]

Didn't Dr. G. say that she doubted any tox results levels would give her anymore info as to the cause of death? I took that to mean that they may obtain results that told them certain drugs were in Caylee's system, but that the levels would not show how much or if they led to her death.

I am praying that if this angel was given xanax it shows up.


So they were told what drugs were already in her system, before a tox analysis. I am not sure that makes any sense.

[steffaroob4]

emergency motion (http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/1223/18344543.pdf)granted to Baez

the emails attched sure are interesting

[Stella Rose]

Considering most were from psychics, you would think a possible bag in the area a half mile from a missing childs home would be a bit more of a credible tip to go check up on, considering the tip was made 3 days in a row, the guy seemed persistent about the location, I would give that a higher priority than a call coming in based on a vision of a body by certain flowers in an unknown area, but thats just me.

jmo

I agree, but I think a lot of good tips could get buried in all the muck. They were overwhelmed by the scope of this case, the media attention, the amount of calls. Who knows how many "credible" people called in to say they saw a trash bag that "looked suspicious". I personally am giving them some leeway on this. They had a very, very tough job - made even more difficult by the family of the "missing person".

[MalloryCat]

when you look at the pictures of the memorial and look past the memorial, it looks like a movie set for a horror movie with the bare tree trunks and roots and all that mud combined with the vegetative overhang that is left. To me, that place reeks of evil.

I thought the exact same thing, the scene was horrifying, dark, evil, you nailed it.

[Neffy]

Only if my daughter was married and lived far away would I not feel entitled to know this...BUT, if my daughter lived in my home with my granddaughter...You can bet your life I would have had a contact for that baby sitter at all times...I would have made it a point to pick her up sometimes also....Cindy knew that this was not normal...Caylee has a sitter for a year and a half and she never even spoke with the woman once....BS in the first degree....

Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...

I don't believe Casey "had" a babysitter for a year and a half. IMO this is one of the myths perpetuated by Cindy to make her daughter not look bad in the public. Granted she didn't have one at all but IMO this "Zanny" came about within the last month prior to Caylee's death.

As everyone says Cindy is NOT the type that would have laid back on not wanted a name, number, address for Zanny. I can't believe she would ever let something like this slide by her.

IMO, I think this is one of the area's where seeking immunity was to be covered.

[legalmania]

when you look at the pictures of the memorial and look past the memorial, it looks like a movie set for a horror movie with the bare tree trunks and roots and all that mud combined with the vegetative overhang that is left. To me, that place reeks of evil.

Caylees spirit is so strong I keep saying that that little bundle was able to call out over all that evil an angel was born.

[Barbara fl.]

Remember the ping way far away. They had to take themselves out of the box to follow all tips. From Texas to Georgia it was a very hard time for that department.


And dont forget that Orlando has become a very high crime area...so between taking care of their regular business they had to deal with a family who did not want to be cooperative.

It had to be rough on them....There is NO way that could have checked out every tip that came in....

[destiny1]

I have some questions about this so-called tip line.

Is this going to be a straight line or is it going to be filtered?
Is this going to have some sort of regional traces on it? If not, it is leaving them open to national nuts.
How are they going to substantiate thes tips? they have to have an established follow-up protocol or this could get very chaotic. More chaotic thanthis entire case has bdeen.

[MalloryCat]

I agree, but I think a lot of good tips could get buried in all the muck. They were overwhelmed by the scope of this case, the media attention, the amount of calls. Who knows how many "credible" people called in to say they saw a trash bag that "looked suspicious". I personally am giving them some leeway on this. They had a very, very tough job - made even more difficult by the family of the "missing person".

I dont know, something is off. Even the report about Casey coming out of the woods with an accomplice and red glasses, got attention from the news, and you would have thought the LE questioned that man who made the claim, and that turned out to be nothing. I dont know, the manner it was found by the same man months earlier who phoned in persistent tips is bothersome.

[5boxersmom]

When I first read Kiomaries statement I too thought that area needs to be searched. For some reason I kept thinking behind that school. I know the area behind the school was searched. Didn't they find bones of an animal there early in the search?

I probably would have kept looking there too if I was in the area.

jmo

[kOOkie1]

Did we ever hear if George and Cindy were deposed by Morgan?..maybe it was cancelled??

[legalmania]

And dont forget that Orlando has become a very high crime area...so between taking care of their regular business they had to deal with a family who did not want to be cooperative.

It had to be rough on them....There is NO way that could have checked out every tip that came in....

LE took on a major case and the end result is what we have to look at. SOLVED.

[WillowInFlight]

I don't believe Casey "had" a babysitter for a year and a half. IMO this is one of the myths perpetuated by Cindy to make her daughter not look bad in the public. Granted she didn't have one at all but IMO this "Zanny" came about within the last month prior to Caylee's death.

As everyone says Cindy is NOT the type that would have laid back on not wanted a name, number, address for Zanny. I can't believe she would ever let something like this slide by her.

IMO, I think this is one of the area's where seeking immunity was to be covered.

I don't believe the Zanny the nanny line came from Cindy, I think that lie and story belongs strictly to Casey.

[destiny1]

Caylees spirit is so strong I keep saying that that little bundle was able to call out over all that evil an angel was born.

All wwe have to do to see the strength of caylee's spirit is to look at how many message boards and how many people on each message board and how many people not on message boards searched for her and showed support.

Caylee has brought so many people with nothing in common together.

[WillowInFlight]

Did we ever hear if George and Cindy were deposed by Morgan?..maybe it was cancelled??

I believe Conway asked that it take place at a later time.

[Barbara fl.]

I don't believe Casey "had" a babysitter for a year and a half. IMO this is one of the myths perpetuated by Cindy to make her daughter not look bad in the public. Granted she didn't have one at all but IMO this "Zanny" came about within the last month prior to Caylee's death.

As everyone says Cindy is NOT the type that would have laid back on not wanted a name, number, address for Zanny. I can't believe she would ever let something like this slide by her.

IMO, I think this is one of the area's where seeking immunity was to be covered.


Sorry..not so....The phantom nanny name "Zenaida" has been used for a year and a half.....She even used that name to Jesse Grunds family when Caylee was around one year old....

It was a name she probably picked from the air...and kept using it....But it had been being used for at least a year and a half....

[esmile]

Rick Plesea, (Cindy Anthony's Brother, Casey's Uncle) describes George, Cindy and Casey attending a wedding in which they would not admit that Casey was pregnant (7 months along). Apparently Casey was clearly pregnant but Cindy, George and Casey all played dumb, even remarking that you had to have had sex to get pregnant. Why the huge denial on Cindy's part at that time?

I got this link below from an earlier news post, it's the police report.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-interviews,0,100606.htmlpage

[destiny1]

I don't believe Casey "had" a babysitter for a year and a half. IMO this is one of the myths perpetuated by Cindy to make her daughter not look bad in the public. Granted she didn't have one at all but IMO this "Zanny" came about within the last month prior to Caylee's death.

As everyone says Cindy is NOT the type that would have laid back on not wanted a name, number, address for Zanny. I can't believe she would ever let something like this slide by her.

IMO, I think this is one of the area's where seeking immunity was to be covered.

The legal problem with cindy needing immunity for stating the zanny story is that IF she said "casey told me" it is not technically lying even though she knew better. Then they would have to prove she knew better before she could be charged. so many loopholes.

[legalmania]

All wwe have to do to see the strength of caylee's spirit is to look at how many message boards and how many people on each message board and how many people not on message boards searched for her and showed support.

Caylee has brought so many people with nothing in common together.

Sometimes we don't understand death but I always thought that what was meant by it to bring people together.

[KatieKates]

Sometimes we don't understand death but I always thought that what was meant by it to bring people together.

Not on this board. LOL

[destiny1]

Dr. Baden commented on that statement... I think it was GVS .... He said he was baffled ( my words) by her statement about Levels. He said level s of drugs were not important. If they were in her system (drugs, chloroform etc) The same conclusion could be reached. that the child was drugged. , contributing to her death. I am paraphrasing.
IMO, there would be NO excuse for caylee having any tranquilizing type drugs in her system.

[Carol25]

In LE's defense, did you see some of those tips that were called in? I read through the PDFs in the document dump and it was a joke. Psychics, visions, dreams, feelings... not to add to it all of the "sightings" the Anthony family themselves were calling in - sadly LE had their hands full.

Did they miss a credible tip? It appears so, but IMO, it was probably like trying to find a particular needle in a pile of needles.
You have a great point there. I did the same thing. I started reading those and I just shook my head. It sounded like the sweetest old ladies. But they had to check out every tip. I thought to myself, in court they should just bring out the stack of tips for they jury to take back and read and see how many they had to check out.

Even if they had 10 deputies to check out those tips, I see them not being very thorough after about 50 of them.

So easy for them to miss the exact spot.

[daHawg]

Considering most were from psychics, you would think a possible bag in the area a half mile from a missing childs home would be a bit more of a credible tip to go check up on, considering the tip was made 3 days in a row, the guy seemed persistent about the location, I would give that a higher priority than a call coming in based on a vision of a body by certain flowers in an unknown area, but thats just me.

jmoThe thing is we DON'T know that they didn't give it a higher priority. His tips were not included in the doc dump of tips all of those were low priority tips according to the forms and they did send a deputy out on the 11th the meter reader was not there, the 12th he contacted the tip line and from there on the 13th a deputy did go and meet with him. So they did act on the tip we just have to wait to see exactly where the deputy looked based on the meter reader and where the remains were actually found 4 months later. I choose not to chastise LE until they finish their investigation in this.

[Stella Rose]

I dont know, something is off. Even the report about Casey coming out of the woods with an accomplice and red glasses, got attention from the news, and you would have thought the LE questioned that man who made the claim, and that turned out to be nothing. I dont know, the manner it was found by the same man months earlier who phoned in persistent tips is bothersome.

I'll give you that - it is odd, but we don't know his story yet. LE does and they feel he is credible, and have cleared him as a suspect.

Maybe he is just a "sleuther" like us. Only he is there and could do real live searches. I know if I lived/worked in that area I would have been actively searching instead of sitting here doing nothing. Just a thought.

[SavannahStar]

I agree. Law enforcement is only human,too. I am getting tired of people thinking LE has to be robotically perfect and 150% thorough while looking for a needle in a haystack (for how many months) to get a conviction, otherwise claiming it is cause for reasonable doubt. I don't think it is. It is simply not realistic to expect that, imo



jmo

Just chiming in to say that I never said their overlooking those tips was cause for reasonable doubt. In fact, I don't think so, at all.

But I think the mistake is worse than can just be chalked up to "being human."

From what I know right now anyway. We'll see what the investigation turns up. To me it looks like a very bad mistake. No it won't cause reasonable doubt but I reiterate the case against Casey MAY have been much stronger, with "fresher" evidence.

[Lavenia]

LE took on a major case and the end result is what we have to look at. SOLVED.

Yup. The proof will be in the pudding!

[legalmania]

Rick Plesea, (Cindy Anthony's Brother, Casey's Uncle) describes George, Cindy and Casey attending a wedding in which they would not admit that Casey was pregnant (7 months along). Apparently Casey was clearly pregnant but Cindy, George and Casey all played dumb, even remarking that you had to have had sex to get pregnant. Why the huge denial on Cindy's part at that time?

I got this link below from an earlier news post, it's the police report.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-interviews,0,100606.htmlpage

They are constantly in denial when it comes to Casey. I would call it embaressed.

[SavannahStar]

Not on this board. LOL

LOL is right! :biggrin:

[Barbara fl.]

LE took on a major case and the end result is what we have to look at. SOLVED.


Exactly....no matter when or how the body was found.....It was found....and when you have a murder charge it is better to have a body....that did throw the whole theory that Caylee was still alive.

I would imagine they will probably still use the nanny theory....but it will be a lot harder to pull off now....

What can they possibly say that Zenaida murdered Caylee put her in the trunk of Casey's car and Casey never noticed it, even when she ran to get the gas cans out before her father got to the trunk...And then came back and took the body out of Casey's car and went in Cindy's home and got some garbage bags and took the body to the end of the block ? ONLY LINDA BADEN WOULD BELIEVE SUCH A STORY...

[ccnsd]

ITA, sitting in jail all these months hasn't seemed to faze her one bit.

She feels safe inside. She told her parents that she felt safe & all the officers were very nice to her. Guess you couldn't ask for anything better eh? She sure wouldn't get the courtsey being out. imo
She needs to be in general population somewhere, then people could let her know that she isn't fooling the people, in or out doesn't matter.

jmo

[destiny1]

Considering most were from psychics, you would think a possible bag in the area a half mile from a missing childs home would be a bit more of a credible tip to go check up on, considering the tip was made 3 days in a row, the guy seemed persistent about the location, I would give that a higher priority than a call coming in based on a vision of a body by certain flowers in an unknown area, but thats just me.

jmo

Hi Mallory

I bdelieve that I would take a psychic more seriously if their tip was in a location away from the home simply because I would expect areas near to the home to be obvious and would expect them to be or have been thoroughly searched. I still would like to hear the original tapes of the three tips. If there was a human decomp smell reported, then yes, I do believe someone dropped the ball. Just not ready to bash LE for it just yet.

[MerriMent]

I don't know, Jan...it's hard for me to think of Casey as mentally ill because I have her pictured as a heartless monster...but I can definitely see where you are coming from. I'm just totally disgusted by what she did...

IMO :)

After hearing Jesse describe her as someone he now doesn't recognize, I'm wondering if Casey suffers from multiple personality disorder. I also wonder if "Zanny" is one of her personalities. This wouldn't be the first time a mother morphs into a heartless monster.

[MalloryCat]

The thing is we DON'T know that they didn't give it a higher priority. His tips were not included in the doc dump of tips all of those were low priority tips according to the forms and they did send a deputy out on the 11th the meter reader was not there, the 12th he contacted the tip line and from there on the 13th a deputy did go and meet with him. So they did act on the tip we just have to wait to see exactly where the deputy looked based on the meter reader and where the remains were actually found 4 months later. I choose not to chastise LE until they finish their investigation in this.

Pointing out the FACTS is not chastising. It is fact the man called in a tip 3 times over 3 days, he was persistent, something was there, well guess what, about 6 months later they found Caylee there, well, the same man did, these are just acts, sadly.

[legalmania]

Exactly....no matter when or how the body was found.....It was found....and when you have a murder charge it is better to have a body....that did throw the whole theory that Caylee was still alive.

I would imagine they will probably still use the nanny theory....but it will be a lot harder to pull off now....

What can they possibly say that Zenaida murdered Caylee put her in the trunk of Casey's car and Casey never noticed it, even when she ran to get the gas cans out before her father got to the trunk...And then came back and took the body out of Casey's car and went in Cindy's home and got some garbage bags and took the body to the end of the block ? ONLY LINDA BADEN WOULD BELIEVE SUCH A STORY...

The neighbor can put Casey in that car not Zenaida.

[Stella Rose]

Is there confirmation Casey actually used the name "Zenaida" to the Grunds 1.5years ago? If so, what is the Zawgrass/Zenaida in April connection. Very confusing

[desmom]

Yes, you are right, and in a perfect world that would be it with this case, but the fact 3 tips were called in and they went to an area and did not discover the body, assuming they looked in that area at the time, Like they were supposed to, the Defense is going to shout from the roof, the LE was there, they didn't see anything, I dont think anyones happy about it, but its there.


jmo

Wasn't it 1 tip called in 3 times?

Gale St. John video taped a wooded area on Suburban. One woman is walking through the vegetation and mentions the knee deep water. Ms. St. John's video: http://psychicgale.com/blinddrive.htm (the knee deep water is mentioned at approx. 6:22 on the timer) The vegetation appears pretty dense. It would be very easy to hide Caylee's body under a bush and she would be missed by a team of searchers.

Ms. St. John was in Orlando around the August 11 time period. http://www.wesh.com/news/17160869/detail.html

jmo

[Barbara fl.]

I don't know why anyone is still giving Lenny air time. I know many praised him for at least looking for Caylee which was more than the Anthonys were doing but how much looking did he actually do? He talked a lot about his planned searches but as I recall, the only search he actually participated in was the one when he hired the divers (and he sat on the sidelines, looking at his beads that he swore matched the ones Casey had in her room). Did HE actually ever do any searching? He's more talk than action.


That's why the FEDs asked him for a polygraph...but he got out of dodge quicker then he came in....he's only back now because he feels confident that he wont be asked again now that Caylee's remains have been found....

But I wish they would, just so he would leave again....JMO but nothing he says makes any sense at all....

[Neffy]

I don't believe the Zanny the nanny line came from Cindy, I think that lie and story belongs strictly to Casey.

But Cindy confirmed her existance backing up Casey that this wasn't someone Casey just met (made up that is) Cindy is vouching for Casey on how long they had known each other ALTHOUGH never see, no number no address no nothing.

IMO Zanny is a very recent figment of Casey's imagination who had just come about the prior month or so. Definately NOT over a year.

[LindaNJ1216]

edited
Cindy didn't question it because Cindy didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee herself....Therefore why open a can of worms....

This poor child didn't stand a chance...Not one responsible person among all of them...And the MOST irresponsible one being the MOTHER...

I really think it's unfair to say Cindy couldn't be bothered watching Caylee. Apparently CINDY was the breadwinner.

[Barbara fl.]

The neighbor can put Casey in that car not Zenaida.


Also the shovel....so she is cooked....

[Dogmatic]

Exactly....no matter when or how the body was found.....It was found....and when you have a murder charge it is better to have a body....that did throw the whole theory that Caylee was still alive.

I would imagine they will probably still use the nanny theory....but it will be a lot harder to pull off now....

What can they possibly say that Zenaida murdered Caylee put her in the trunk of Casey's car and Casey never noticed it, even when she ran to get the gas cans out before her father got to the trunk...And then came back and took the body out of Casey's car and went in Cindy's home and got some garbage bags and took the body to the end of the block ? ONLY LINDA BADEN WOULD BELIEVE SUCH A STORY...


My guess is that Jose' will fight hard to keep the trunk evidence out of court.

Otherwise, you are correct, the "Zanny did it" theory is a lame pony.

[legalmania]

Pointing out the FACTS is not chastising. It is fact the man called in a tip 3 times over 3 days, he was persistent, something was there, well guess what, about 6 months later they found Caylee there, well, the same man did, these are just acts, sadly.

Is it possible I am saying possible that between the water and animals that the body moved to the left or to the right at times?

[steffaroob4]

Here is the video (New Tip Line Set Up In Anthony Case)about Todd Black on Dr G.

[destiny1]

Exactly....no matter when or how the body was found.....It was found....and when you have a murder charge it is better to have a body....that did throw the whole theory that Caylee was still alive.

I would imagine they will probably still use the nanny theory....but it will be a lot harder to pull off now....

What can they possibly say that Zenaida murdered Caylee put her in the trunk of Casey's car and Casey never noticed it, even when she ran to get the gas cans out before her father got to the trunk...And then came back and took the body out of Casey's car and went in Cindy's home and got some garbage bags and took the body to the end of the block ? ONLY LINDA BADEN WOULD BELIEVE SUCH A STORY...

I wonder if the bags surrounding her body have yet been linked to bags ties, etc found in the Anthony hom,e. In a way, it would be a stretch with all the time that has passed. I may go through 5 - 6 bags a week so I multiplied that by six months. Bags may have gone through that home and evidence of anything matching from June would be unlikely. This is just my opinion, though.

[legalmania]

Also the shovel....so she is cooked....

Do you think the defense could possible come up with a ZG. NO, oh by the way shouldn't there be a missing person on ZG?

[Dogmatic]

I really think it's unfair to say Cindy couldn't be bothered watching Caylee. Apparently CINDY was the breadwinner.

I agree. Now, Grandpa could have watched Caylee while Casey worked............

[~jomomma~]

Again, twisting my words.

I'm only saying that I believe that if LE had followed up on the tips in August, Caylee's body would have been found four months earlier and perhaps a better case made against Casey. Yes, that is LE's fault, not the Anthonys' fault, that those tips were not followed up on.

did you hear Mark Furman last night on greta? anybody?

[st777jo]

You have a great point there. I did the same thing. I started reading those and I just shook my head. It sounded like the sweetest old ladies. But they had to check out every tip. I thought to myself, in court they should just bring out the stack of tips for they jury to take back and read and see how many they had to check out.

Even if they had 10 deputies to check out those tips, I see them not being very thorough after about 50 of them.

So easy for them to miss the exact spot.


And what about the anthony's big time investigators? Did they check out any reliable tips, or just the ones the a's wanted? They knew about the area, wonder why they didn't search there? We need to quit trying to blame everything on LE.
jmo, jo

[Dogmatic]

But Cindy confirmed her existance backing up Casey that this wasn't someone Casey just met (made up that is) Cindy is vouching for Casey on how long they had known each other ALTHOUGH never see, no number no address no nothing.

IMO Zanny is a very recent figment of Casey's imagination who had just come about the prior month or so. Definately NOT over a year.


You are right. Cindy did confirm that.

Hmmmm, I have to ponder the implications of this.

[daHawg]

Pointing out the FACTS is not chastising. It is fact the man called in a tip 3 times over 3 days, he was persistent, something was there, well guess what, about 6 months later they found Caylee there, well, the same man did, these are just acts, sadly.You are choosing to only point out half of the "facts" that we know right now. Meter man report 3 days in a row, LE did respond to the reports. Caylee was found in the same area is this the exact same area he originally reported in August or further up or down the road?
Facts we do not yet know until we see the tips are was the bag really gray in color, was it on the side of the road, did it really smell as Geraldo keeps reporting?
The psychic Gayle St. John video'd that same area that same day, they did not see a bag. They walked around the area and the water was knee deep inside the wooded area. So we don't know all of the facts.

[destiny1]

Is it possible I am saying possible that between the water and animals that the body moved to the left or to the right at times?

Not only that, the body bag was black, and in at least one of these tips, the bag was gray. Not only that, we don't know if each tip was referring to the same bag because LE hasn't released that information, and RIGHTFULLY so.

[legalmania]

did you hear Mark Furman last night on greta? anybody?

What did he say?

[Barbara fl.]

I really think it's unfair to say Cindy couldn't be bothered watching Caylee. Apparently CINDY was the breadwinner.


I grant you that...and she probably did a great job of it....however, I still say that Cindy probably didn't want to be bothered watching Caylee all the time...She was a nurse and probably put in many hours to put the bread on the table....but that would make it all the more that she wouldn't want to be bother watching a child when she came home....That is not to say she didn't love Caylee (I'm sure she did)

However, I would have in anycase just to have the piece of mind that my granddaughter was were she would be safe....That is what I meant by that...it wasn't meant to be unfair....What I find unfair is when children have children for the grandparents to take care of...but that doesn't stop some GP's from taking over....

[Lilly12]

did you hear Mark Furman last night on greta? anybody?

I missed it. What did Mark say? Please.

[Barbara fl.]

Do you think the defense could possible come up with a ZG. NO, oh by the way shouldn't there be a missing person on ZG?


Your right.....shouldn't someone report her missing...:lol:

[LindaNJ1216]

I believe that Cindy was trying hard love with Casey and trying to push her into be responsible.....But, I would know my child well enough to know that she was not mother material....I would have been worried constantly of Caylee being neglected....I would not have been able to sleep while Caylee was not at home....

I always believed that a child should go to sleep in their own bed every night and wake up in their own bed in the morning...It gives the child the sense of security....

Even if I didn't want to take on the responsibility of raising my grandchild....I would have done so just for the peace of mind....

When I hear some posters say that the grandmother would have no control of what Casey did with Caylee...it boils my blood...because I been there and did that....and am not sorry for it till today....infant when I hear stories like this....I am so thankful that I did what I did...

By all OUTWARD appearances Casey appeared to be a great mom right up until her daughter went missing. I've watched home videos of them playing together, the countless photos Casey took of her daughter, heard what her friends had to say.....

Yeah Casey was a HUGE liar and perhaps her parents are a tad gullible ...and yes I think George & Cindy spoiled Casey and Caylee. That's not a crime and NO ONE could have foreseen this. IMO

[Dogmatic]

I remember a jailhouse visit between Casey and Cindy.

Cindy: Casey, I thought you said Zenaida had curly hair?

Casey: I did Mom. She used a hair straightener. Remember? She's the one that gave me a hair straightener.

Cindy: Oh, that's right.