Mon. Dec.22 Part 2

[?noanswer]

If she was carrying the bag...that would make the footprint deeper...no?

After all the flood water, I doubt their are any footprints. The best they can hope for is that dirt would be imbedded in a shoe. They can test that for a match at the scene. JMO

[Lavenia]

Not to be gross, but since the body is a skeleton, there will not be much to do except provide a casket, and a room for viewing. There will not be any embalbing, preparing for viewing etc. JMO

Right. Someone earlier said they wish Casey had to brush Caylee's hair for the last time and I realized some people don't realize just what state her remains are in unless they were speaking figuratively.

[beetlebrow]

This is why I don't think postpartum depression had anything to do with anything, either. PPD happens pretty much right around the time of the birth, not months or even a year later.

Yup....in her actions....texts....conversations....etc., I did not detect any signs of depression. She is a sociopath in every way.

[Neffy]

Casey was also charged with child endangerment, which would often result in family/juvenile court action. Childrens Services, in a dependency action, will ask the juvenile judge to order the mother to name the biological father (and test), or will place legal ads in the papers in an effort to locate him, because he will have a legal interest in the child. I've represented kids as a CASA whose mother has up to seven men tested and still no biological dad found. It's a sad thing to see a child's name published in the paper asking any man who might be their dad to come forward.

There you go!! That's what I thought. Now coming full circle. With all the lies the Anthony's have told do you think there word would be taken at face value or is it up to Childrens services to go further to verify no father is living and exists.

Would an obit clipping suffice? I guess it depends on how far they want to take it since the endangerment/negligence charges were dropped. (at least I thought those charges were dropped when they charged her with 1st degree)

I mean Casey says Caylee has a half sibling out there and I'm sure a phone call could verify that. Unless that numbers in that other darn missing cell phone. :)

[happygert]

Willow! You don't mean that, do you?

Imo, Casey was the wrong crowd, not those kids she hung out with.
IMO Casey acted like a loving mom when in public and others around. In private she wasn't..Just put on a good act.. I say you dont go from loving ,devoted ,doting mom to a killer.... It was an act....

[enigma]

On Cindy's and Casey's relationship, and how he would describe it, Jesse replied without hesitation ADVERSARIAL.

He added that once Casey came to his house and was upset and said she never wanted to become like her mother.

In addition, when asked about Cindy, Richard also said that she was very "specific". I took that to mean dictatorial, as in specific and rigid in her attitude. Especially after he added that he could see why Casey wanted to spend time at their place.

Jesse... he seems like such a forthright young man. never a bad word about Casey, saying how devoted she was as a mother and how her primary concern... until she changed in May.

JMHO...

[?noanswer]

Hello. Can someone please tell me what that sticky means?

Be careful what you say. You could be held accountable & be sued. JMO

[steffaroob4]

That poor meter reader, I feel so bad after hearing he lost his wife a year ago. If I thought LE blew off my tip, I sure would have went back and looked, and looked again, and so on.

[beetlebrow]

Heres the link read for yourself


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/caylee-anthonys.html

Brad Conway, attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, said an autopsy will be done by defense experts after the medical examiner releases the remains. Then the grandparents will decide how to proceed with a memorial, Conway told WESH.

WFTV-Channel 9's Mary Nguyen reported that George and Cindy Anthony might ask for donations to bury Caylee. "The Anthonys are hoping the public will pay for their granddaughter's funeral," Nguyen said.



What do you make of that?

Conway said a trust fund will be established to pay for the funeral, and the family will seek donations from the public, Nguyen reported. The average cost for a funeral is $6,000, she added.

On WKMG-Channel 6, Conway said that George and Cindy Anthony are supporting Casey. "They want the truth, whatever that is," Conway said. "Whatever the truth is, they will stand by their daughter."

It says "might" then it says "will" ????? Help...I'm going crazy :lol:

[Lavenia]

This is why I don't think postpartum depression had anything to do with anything, either. PPD happens pretty much right around the time of the birth, not months or even a year later.

While I'm not a degreed expert in the field and I certainly don't know Casey personally, I'm fairly up-to-date on the subject, and I don't see anything to suggest PPD.

[happygert]

That seems like months ago that Todd Black was bragging that they had just located the guy who took a picture of the nanny with Casey and Caylee. Nope, I haven't seen it.


eta: Jesse is on Greta now.

me either.....I'm betting we never will either'

[Amy]

I don't get that either. Didn't they say it would be a private funeral so why would the public have to pay for the funeral expenses?

Sad that they can't even hold their grandbaby's funeral with class. I've never seen people like this before in my life.

Mr Conway says they are planning on having a public service, also.

[OneUp]

There you go!! That's what I thought. Now coming full circle. With all the lies the Anthony's have told do you think there word would be taken at face value or is it up to Childrens services to go further to verify no father is living and exists.

Would an obit clipping suffice? I guess it depends on how far they want to take it since the endangerment/negligence charges were dropped. (at least I thought those charges were dropped when they charged her with 1st degree)

I mean Casey says Caylee has a half sibling out there and I'm sure a phone call could verify that. Unless that numbers in that other darn missing cell phone. :)Upon thinking about the paternity issue..( again)...I find myself feeling that IF there is a possibility of a sibling ( but who could take Casey's word for,...anything!), then I'd want to see that child benefitting from any proceeds made on movies or books. I realize that child(ren0 would have never known of caylee's existrance, but it feels to me like the only way an "innocent" party could benefit. Otherwise, IMO, people will profit who should be PAYING in some sense or another for what happened to Caylee. I SURE hate to know that someone like Garrison or Baez became a millionaire on Caylee's death. That is appaling to me...I KNOW many people make their living off of tragedies like this one, but idon't have to like it!
JMO.

[WillowInFlight]

Willow, can you expand for me why and how you think falling in with "the wrong crowd" can turn and otherwise loving mother into a baby murderer. I really don't see it that way, and can't figure out how that "fits" for you, but I'd appreciate some help in getting where you are coming from.
It's long been MO that Casey has always been what Casey is...and that her upbringing cultivated her nastier traits to "perfection" creating a beast that was pretty good at masquerading as normal for brief time periods.
I would like someone with sense ( such as yourself) to explain other POV's to me.
Thanks if you have time to do so.

I'm not sure, but all the pictures I have seen has shown a loving mom, I just believe that at one point she loved this child. I think Cindy may have made her a pawn. Maybe I just have a hard time believing that a mother could hate her child from day one. I think Casey did love her daughter at one time.

[beetlebrow]

After all the flood water, I doubt their are any footprints. The best they can hope for is that dirt would be imbedded in a shoe. They can test that for a match at the scene. JMO

This is what I thought at first also. But why wouldnt they take the shoes the last time???. I was thinking that they possibly found something else having to do with shoes....

[playnice]

If Baez wants tips why doesnt he have George tell him who his PI were watching when they had the kidnappers under survelience?

[Calla]

This would be correct.

Thank you for your condolences. The cost may be significantly higher now I should add. It's been 13 yrs since my daughter was killed and she was 17 at the time. So she was full price.

But then she was always a high end girl. God, i miss her.

God bless you.

You will be in my prayers tonight along with a family from my hometown who just lost their 17 yr old in an accident and buried her yesterday.

As will the Anthony's.

THat's my grown up Christmas list this year. To pray for all the broken hearts.

[bchand]

lol watching greta...

has anyone even considered a scenario where casey is innocent?

lol..forget it. i already see hundreds of resounding "no's"


Last time I peeked at the poll, there were 72 people who said she was innocent.

[steffaroob4]

Is it normal to have to have donations for the funeral of a family member?
I can't believe they can't find the money to bury their grandbaby.
Sell a car , Lee can't help?
I would be so embarrassed to have to take donations .

I realize some people really have hardship but the middle class Anthonys ?

I know I will take flak for these thoughts but they are my thoughts.

I really think that report came from yesterdays pressers.
I have seen a lot of funerals that donations are aked to be given to a charity in the persons name(no flowers, please), I have also seen quite a few that family members took donations to help pay for the funeral, so I don't think it is an uncommon thing.

[aubrey04]

Why are George and Cindy asking people to donate to pay the expenses of their grandchilds funeral? That's absurd. Good grief. what is with these people?

but ignoring George and Cindy completely.. Caylee does deserve a beautiful funeral celebrating her life. I think many people will contribute if they know the money will NOT touch the hands of the Anthony family.


Casey should pay for Caylee's funeral. She can work for $1 a day scrubbing toilets in the jail untils he pays it off.

[OneUp]

Is it normal to have to have donations for the funeral of a family member?
I can't believe they can't find the money to bury their grandbaby.
Sell a car , Lee can't help?
I would be so embarrassed to have to take donations .

I realize some people really have hardship but the middle class Anthonys ?

I know I will take flak for these thoughts but they are my thoughts.
I'm, rather surprised that/if Cindy didn't have life insurance on her entire family including her adult children and grandchild. We have our children/ourselves insured, and my mother carries insurance on her other two children and my sisters kids as those adults are all too irresponsible to provide it themselves ( I realize, for some even the trivial cost of life insurance is a financial burden...no judgment meant for those who cannot afford it).
JMO.

[n/t]

lol watching greta...

has anyone even considered a scenario where casey is innocent?

lol..forget it. i already see hundreds of resounding "no's"


Not with what's presented so far. I do however, wonder where the defense will go with who done it? If they go with the non existant nanny, they're toast. They're better off saying it was an unknown person. Casey left her on the steps or the mall and someone took her.

They'll have a difficult time with the 31 days though. Who doesn't report their child missing for 31 days? Shear panic sets in when you lose sight of your child after 5 seconds at a mall or grocery store.

I hope the State can prove COD though. I know they can still get a conviction without COD because of the overwhelming circumstantial evidence but if they can prove how Caylee died it will be a slam dunk and I truly believe they're working tirelessly in trying to get that.

[beetlebrow]

This would be correct.

Thank you all for your condolences. The cost may be significantly higher now I should add. It's been 13 yrs since my daughter was killed and she was 17 at the time. So she was full price.

But then she was always a high end girl. God, i miss her.

Oh my....I am so sorry Aame.....:rose:

[n/t]

Mr Conway says they are planning on having a public service, also.

IIRC, the funeral will be private but the memorial will be public.

[happygert]

Mr Conway says they are planning on having a public service, also.

Im sure they have to say that in order to get donations from public...IMO why would public donate for a private service?:shrug:

I say they have money to bury her they've made a lot of money off her...from donations "paid Licensing fees" paid for pictures and videos

[smileyjoe]

If Baez wants tips why doesnt he have George tell him who his PI were watching when they had the kidnappers under survelience?

Because Baez wants some nutcase to call regarding the MR or anyone else these psychos wish to point fingers at. Anyone but Casey.

That is the defense in a nutshell.

Anyone but Casey.

imo

Joe.

[PROPROS]

On Cindy's and Casey's relationship, and how he would describe it, Jesse replied without hesitation ADVERSARIAL.

He added that once Casey came to his house and was upset and said she never wanted to become like her mother.

In addition, when asked about Cindy, Richard also said that she was very "specific". I took that to mean dictatorial, as in specific and rigid in her attitude. Especially after he added that he could see why Casey wanted to spend time at their place.

Jesse... he seems like such a forthright young man. never a bad word about Casey, saying how devoted she was as a mother and how her primary concern... until she changed in May.

JMHO...isn't he just the most kind hearted young man. I don't see where George and Cindy found fault with him. Granted, I don't know him personally....however, his love for Caylee and Casey seems to be sincere. Casey and Caylee could have had a wonderful,wonderful life with Jesse. IMO, neither Jesse or his father will say a (truly) bad word against Casey or The Anthony's. It's going to be difficult to watch him testify against her.mo

[need2no]

Last time I peeked at the poll, there were 72 people who said she was innocent.

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:

[happygert]

:rose: for Aame

[?noanswer]

So I gather that means that we are not allowed to talk about the Anthony family any more. :huh:

I think one can give an opinion and link to things about them. JMO

[MerriMent]

Casey was also charged with child endangerment, which would often result in family/juvenile court action. Childrens Services, in a dependency action, will ask the juvenile judge to order the mother to name the biological father (and test), or will place legal ads in the papers in an effort to locate him, because he will have a legal interest in the child. I've represented kids as a CASA whose mother has up to seven men tested and still no biological dad found. It's a sad thing to see a child's name published in the paper asking any man who might be their dad to come forward.

What dependency action is happening in this case? Caylee is deceased and I doubt Casey ever asked for public welfare. The court can't force Casey to reveal the father's name or anything else at this point.

[beetlebrow]

Oh, but let's face it ... not entirely out of the realm of possibility. No need to be shocked. This is the Anthonys, after all.

:laugh: I know I guess I should not be shocked....I just thought confirmation of Caylee's death would have made them begin to think realistically......I was wrong!!! :tonguewag:

[n/t]

So I gather that means that we are not allowed to talk about the Anthony family any more. :huh:

It all depends on how you word it. If you state something as fact without proof, yes you can be banned, sued and be held liable. That's why many times links have to be provided if you post something as fact.

[Calla]

ITA. Jesse was in love. And he loved Caylee. He saw what he wanted to see in Casey. Perfectly normal.

As I believe her parents did for as much as it was possible.

[bchand]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:

It could very well be people who were not given an "I don't know yet" choice, so they put innocent?

[?noanswer]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy: Yes, but that's only 2% of total vote. JMO

[Ionmhainn]

"The remains will be given to the next of kin, which is her mother, Casey Anthony. She could sign the remains over to her parents,"

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-caylee-anthony-body-dna-121908,0,1859200.story

I posted on page 4 that Casey mentioned her parents having power of attorney. That may be all that's necessary....?
imo

[Mayasmimi]

Has anyone read the sticky about the rules we signed when we signed up here? So now does that mean that we are no longer allowed to discuss Cindy and George or we will be banned? I don't understand what is she trying to say?


Early on, not that I've been back here for long, I wondered about that. Seems okay now. I'm sure one day it won't. Maybe we'll get a warning. I have a new dress picked out....just kidding. I learned my leason years ago.

Probably not a good idea to talk about TOS.

[PROPROS]

This would be correct.

Thank you all for your condolences. The cost may be significantly higher now I should add. It's been 13 yrs since my daughter was killed and she was 17 at the time. So she was full price.

But then she was always a high end girl. God, i miss her.For you and your daughter Aame.:rose:

[OneUp]

This would be correct.

Thank you all for your condolences. The cost may be significantly higher now I should add. It's been 13 yrs since my daughter was killed and she was 17 at the time. So she was full price.

But then she was always a high end girl. God, i miss her.My heart goes out to you Aame...I cannot even allow myself to ponder the loss of my teenager. I think the loss of another child would break me completely...knowing all of the years of love one puts into raising a child to adulthood and an age when you can begin to become a "friend" on an equal level with your children...well, I know you lost a lot at a very rewarding point in her precious life.
Bless you!

[happygert]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:

OMG..... could it be someone polling over and over again.?..

[beetlebrow]

Mr Conway says they are planning on having a public service, also.

Where are they going to get security if they have no money???

[steffaroob4]

We are also told investigators (http://www.wftv.com/news/18334836/detail.html)took soil samples from the Anthony home over the weekend. Once defense attorney Jose Baez found out that was taken as part of the evidence, he sent out his own team and they collected soil from the home for there forensic experts.

Sources tell WFTV, investigators also took two pairs of sunglasses and a pink zippered bag.

[Lavenia]

I'm not sure, but all the pictures I have seen has shown a loving mom, I just believe that at one point she loved this child. I think Cindy may have made her a pawn. Maybe I just have a hard time believing that a mother could hate her child from day one. I think Casey did love her daughter at one time.

I think Caylee served as a source of "narcissistic supply" to Casey, IMO.

[?noanswer]

I posted on page 4 that Casey mentioned her parents having power of attorney. That may be all that's necessary....?
imo

I'm sure the lawyers will take care of anything that needs to done in order for the Gparents to make any arrangements. JMO

[AnnInOhio]

Hope her shoes haven't been laundered. :glare:

If its a footprint it wouldn't matter; the pattern and size should be the same.

[Amy]

(the bolding is mine)

I agree. I wonder how the defense would explain that one away? Casey just happened to go for a walk there, being so close to her home and so on... I suppose.

JMHO

Was it friend Christine who said that was a favorite place of Casey's? She buried her hamsters there, they hung out there. So, I can imagine that Baez would be saying LE doesn't know WHEN this soil was deposited on Casey's shoes. It could have been last year, and maybe she hasn't worn those particular shoes since the last time she went there.

[Lavenia]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:

Inmates have phone privelages, don't forget.

[beetlebrow]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:


Why are they letting Geraldo vote so many times???? :lol:

[bchand]

Inmates have phone privelages, don't forget.

"Hello, GretaWire? -Will you accept this collect phone call from Orange County Jail? I need to cast a vote."

She'll be giving the results in a minute.

[PROPROS]

Last time I peeked at the poll, there were 72 people who said she was innocent.
Oh goodness....I hope they are taking the "innocent until proven guilty" stance. mo:scared:

[OneUp]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:It makes you wonder how many times Baez...err, I mean *someone* could log in and vote, doesn't it?
I can see feeling that there is a chance she is in some manner innocent of the current charges, however slim ( nearly as invisible as Z F-G, IMO)...still I think there is a miniscule *Chance* that Casey may not be responsible in full for Caylee's death. I don't *think* she would cover for anyone...so I can't see her as an accessory, and I don't see any way for her to be completely uninvolved....but I can see voting that she MAY be innocent, but to say you think she IS innocent for certain? ....it makes me wonder about common sense...
JMO.

[MerriMent]

Because Baez wants some nutcase to call regarding the MR or anyone else these psychos wish to point fingers at. Anyone but Casey.

That is the defense in a nutshell.

Anyone but Casey.

imo

Joe.

ITA. Lame as it sounds, all they need to persuade is one juror.

[Mamie]

Is it normal to have to have donations for the funeral of a family member?
I can't believe they can't find the money to bury their grandbaby.
Sell a car , Lee can't help?
I would be so embarrassed to have to take donations .

I realize some people really have hardship but the middle class Anthonys ?

I know I will take flak for these thoughts but they are my thoughts.


Answering your first question, in the small town I live in, people here do it all the time. They are hardship cases (although the families usually drive a much newer car than I have!) with no burial policies for sure, so they ask for donations. I don't know how much is collected because I've not had anybody I know ask but the paper usually carries the request with the funeral announcement. JMO

On another note, I was thinking about this after I signed off the other day----------wasn't it the Anthonys who were looking to hire (for free---no pay) an assistant to assist George and Lee for personal errands, etc. way back when?? Does anyone remember this or do I have the wrong case? TIA!

[n/t]

We are also told investigators (http://www.wftv.com/news/18334836/detail.html)took soil samples from the Anthony home over the weekend. Once defense attorney Jose Baez found out that was taken as part of the evidence, he sent out his own team and they collected soil from the home for there forensic experts.

Sources tell WFTV, investigators also took two pairs of sunglasses and a pink zippered bag.

I don't know why but when I read that earlier this afternoon, I couldn't help but think of children copying each other. That's the way it came across to me. You got dirt. I'll get dirt too. hmpf.

Sort of like the crime scene. They whined and and whined about not being able to go to the crime scene and then when they got the ok, they didn't want to anymore.

Very bizarre but hey, maybe that's the way this defense team works.

[AnnInOhio]

I think Caylee served as a source of "narcissistic supply" to Casey, IMO.

I agree with that. Children tend to love their parents whether the parent deserves it or not. Caylee was pretty and smart. I'm sure Casey enjoyed "showing her off" when it suited her purpose. Unfortunately, it appears Caylee was dispensable to her mother. Every narcissistic mom I've ever known has used her children for "narcissistic supply". It's a dangerous situation for a child to be in.

[Ionmhainn]

"Hello, GretaWire? -Will you accept this collect phone call from Orange County Jail? I need to cast a vote."

She'll be giving the results in a minute.

What is the poll about? I don't have a TV in my office. TIA

[marinewife5]

I posted on page 4 that Casey mentioned her parents having power of attorney. That may be all that's necessary....?
imo


i wasn't ignoring that...i just don't know how honest casey is and if it's actually true. i hope that she did, and that it's all it takes. i certainly doubt she would do right by this little girl.

[Lavenia]

"Hello, GretaWire? -Will you accept this collect phone call from Orange County Jail? I need to cast a vote."

She'll be giving the results in a minute.

We'll see how far her commissary account dips after tonight. :lol:

[bchand]

Answering your first question, in the small town I live in, people here do it all the time. They are hardship cases (although the families usually drive a much newer car than I have!) with no burial policies for sure, so they ask for donations. I don't know how much is collected because I've not had anybody I know ask but the paper usually carries the request with the funeral announcement. JMO

On another note, I was thinking about this after I signed off the other day----------wasn't it the Anthonys who were looking to hire (for free---no pay) an assistant to assist George and Lee for personal errands, etc. way back when?? Does anyone remember this or do I have the wrong case? TIA!

You're correct, it was this case.

[AnnInOhio]

I don't know why but when I read that earlier this afternoon, I couldn't help but think of children copying each other. That's the way it came across to me. You got dirt. I'll get dirt too. hmpf.

Sort of like the crime scene. They whined and and whined about not being able to go to the crime scene and then when they got the ok, they didn't want to anymore.

Very bizarre but hey, maybe that's the way this defense team works.

Think they'd object if the prosecution asks to be there when they do the second autopsy??

[PROPROS]

Because Baez wants some nutcase to call regarding the MR or anyone else these psychos wish to point fingers at. Anyone but Casey.

That is the defense in a nutshell.

Anyone but Casey.

imo

Joe.The old SODDI defense......or in this case "dudette".

[playnice]

Did Baez decide not to go with the aha moment?
:D :read:

[need2no]

Truthfully I don't think there's anything to equal a slam-dunk. When a case goes to trial there's always a defense v. prosecution argued. Confessions, but then it's a guilty plea & does not goto trial.

I think her defense will go with the already disproven nanny story. If they say anything else then Casey will have to recant her story and change it again and the jury will know she's a liar in that; which already exists from police documents wherein they've disproven her lies already. Either way all they have to do is get 1 juror to have doubt. The prosecution has the burden of proof, not the defense.

I don't see the defense putting casey on the stand to testify, and that's the only way a new theory of what happened to Caylee could be thrown out during the trial. Can you imagine the field day the prosecutor would have if casey did testify?

[SavannahStar]

The LOOPHOLE is that there is no biodad on the birth certificate, and the bio mom says the bio dad is dead anyway, and since the biodad has NO affect on the case, LE has no obligation, there is no legal anything. She retains sole custody, but because she is in jail she signed the rights to her baby's remains over to her parents.

*snipped*



Exactly. That is the bottom line.

[happygert]

We are also told investigators (http://www.wftv.com/news/18334836/detail.html)took soil samples from the Anthony home over the weekend. Once defense attorney Jose Baez found out that was taken as part of the evidence, he sent out his own team and they collected soil from the home for there forensic experts.

Sources tell WFTV, investigators also took two pairs of sunglasses and a pink zippered bag.

I'd like to know what they took from both warrants...I know A's got a list . but i want to know.:huh:

[Lavenia]

"Hello, GretaWire? -Will you accept this collect phone call from Orange County Jail? I need to cast a vote."

She'll be giving the results in a minute.

Yet somehow I feel like the Orange County Jail has *Geraldo* on speed dial, lol.

[Amy]

Any idea how much is in the trust fund? Funeral services are not included in the cost of a burial plot.

General expenses of burial would seem to include funeral and plot, I'd think. Casket or urn.

[beetlebrow]

We are also told investigators (http://www.wftv.com/news/18334836/detail.html)took soil samples from the Anthony home over the weekend. Once defense attorney Jose Baez found out that was taken as part of the evidence, he sent out his own team and they collected soil from the home for there forensic experts.

Sources tell WFTV, investigators also took two pairs of sunglasses and a pink zippered bag.

I wasnt going to say anything because the night that I looked at the pictures of the bag site I was freaked out and kinda sick to my stomach. I saw a pair of childrens yellow sunglasses in one of the pictures lying on the ground. I looked at pictures of Caylee and found one of her with yellow sunglasses. I will try to link these if u guys want but just know.....this makes me queezy....

[OneUp]

Prior to this tragedy, isn't it true that Cindy worked full time, consistently throughout the years? Was she ever on welfare? Does she have any criminal record for theft, embezzlement, or any other financial crimes? Did she trade any other children or grandchildren, in exchange for financial gain? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what do you know about her life prior to this tragedy, that brings you to this conclusion?...I couldn't speak to Cindy in that regard, but IIRC George admitted to being involved in a money scam. In his words he was a victim, but I think that shows he has a tendency to seek out easy ways to get a payoff...it seems that is how those scams work, by appealing to an individuals desire to get something for nothing.
Now, does that rise to the level of criminal/grifter type of behavior? No, IMO...but I think it does show a tendency to seek out payoff w/o effort on his part.
FWIW, many people commit their first crimes as adults, and alot of murderers in particular commit one murder in an otherwise crime free life.( not totally germaine here...but...). It happens. I don't see it as necessarily a thought out criminal intent here...but I DO see a sense of entitlement, as if this family *deserves* financial support because some others have recieved it for their murdered children.
As always, JMO.

[Mamie]

Then I'm toast..........I didn't see the new sticky :unsure:


I don't think we're allowed to abuse them. But when were we allowed to do that. If we have unkind remarks or opinions to make, this is what this board is about but that can be done without horrible, abusive and untrue statements. JMO and I hope this is what that means. Of course it also goes for fellow posters, too-----no abuse of them either. Common sense, JMO again. Okay---now I'm done.

[Lavenia]

What is the poll about? I don't have a TV in my office. TIA

Whether you think Casey is A: Guilty, B: Guilty of accidentally killing Caylee or C: innocent.

[PROPROS]

It's up to 106 now. :ohmy:The final poll showed 2% for innocent.

[Amy]

I agree, If they don't name names. I probably mispoke by using the name LE but I meant ME in regards to releasing the remains to the "next of kin".

ME HAS released the remains to the next of kin. That would be one Casey Marie Anthony. Since she is incarcerated, she gets to choose to whom SHE will release the remains to.

[beetlebrow]

I think Caylee served as a source of "narcissistic supply" to Casey, IMO.

ITA.....interesting that children tend to gravitate away from cold hearted people after awhile IMO.

[Mayasmimi]

Did Baez decide not to go with the aha moment?
:D :read:

Plenty of Aha moments to come. I'm betting a high profile attorney is going to jump all over this case.....real soon. Any day now.:scared:

[Ionmhainn]

i wasn't ignoring that...i just don't know how honest casey is and if it's actually true. i hope that she did, and that it's all it takes. i certainly doubt she would do right by this little girl.

My recollection was that she reminded her brother of that, but can't recall the precise context of the conversation. A general power of attorney should cover it. I only needed a separate one to cover medical decisions re "no heroic efforts."
mo

[Lavenia]

I wasnt going to say anything because the night that I looked at the pictures of the bag site I was freaked out and kinda sick to my stomach. I saw a pair of childrens yellow sunglasses in one of the pictures lying on the ground. I looked at pictures of Caylee and found one of her with yellow sunglasses. I will try to link these if u guys want but just know.....this makes me queezy....

I would like the link BB!

[SavannahStar]

What dependency action is happening in this case? Caylee is deceased and I doubt Casey ever asked for public welfare. The court can't force Casey to reveal the father's name or anything else at this point.

Right..I think that's what some are forgetting in this conversation: Casey is deceased.

[Amy]

You are quite wrong about me not knowing the legalities. I do know three criteria for legal fatherhood: 1) the parents must be married OR 2) the father gives his permission for his name to be put on the birth cert OR 3) paternity is proven by DNA testing and his name is put on the birth cert. that way.

Otherwise, for all intents and purposes there IS no father. Yes, Casey has SOLE custody because none of those three criteria applied.

That's the way it is where I live, too.

[Ionmhainn]

Gladly. The poll was is she:

Guilty= 79 percent

It was an accident = 19 percent

She is innocent = 2 percent

Or something very close to this.

Thanks....appreciate it!

ETA....to you also, Lavenia.

[smileyjoe]

The old SODDI defense......or in this case "dudette".

Ok, just figgered it out.

Exactly. imo.


Joe.

[n/t]

Truthfully I don't think there's anything to equal a slam-dunk. When a case goes to trial there's always a defense v. prosecution argued. Confessions, but then it's a guilty plea & does not goto trial.

I think her defense will go with the already disproven nanny story. If they say anything else then Casey will have to recant her story and change it again and the jury will know she's a liar in that; which already exists from police documents wherein they've disproven her lies already. Either way all they have to do is get 1 juror to have doubt. The prosecution has the burden of proof, not the defense.

I realize that but they can't go with a nanny that doesn't exist because LE will have proven that Zenaida Gonzales is not the nanny and Casey didn't need a nanny because she had no job. So, imo, they'll do a Geragos as in the SP trial. Try to cast reasonable doubt by saying it could be anyone.

[enigma]

isn't he just the most kind hearted young man. I don't see where George and Cindy found fault with him. Granted, I don't know him personally....however, his love for Caylee and Casey seems to be sincere. Casey and Caylee could have had a wonderful,wonderful life with Jesse. IMO, neither Jesse or his father will say a (truly) bad word against Casey or The Anthony's. It's going to be difficult to watch him testify against her.mo

I agree...

He did say at one stage that she was a bit clingy, which was part of the reason they first brokw up (that's how he put it - I didn't know they broke up twice). But it sounded like he then fell in love with her.

Another interesting thing was about paternity. GVS asked him why he took the test and he simply said that it was just not possible that he was the father, since Caylee was a full term baby and Casey and he just hadn't been together that long for it to happen. Casey was adamant that he was the father and got quite upset when he said he couldn't be... hence the test.

He said a few times that that piece of paper (the DNA test results) didn't change in the least the way he felt about Caylee. "No piece of paper is going to tell me not to love Caylee", I think is the way he put it.

What on earth happened to change Casey so, almost overnight?

IIRC, those computer searches were done in March, so if that's right, was Casey's love and concern around Caylee for appearances' sake, or what? Jesse seems quite certain when he refers to May as the time when Casey changed, but obviously something was developing back in March...

JMHO

[Amy]

Originally Posted by bchand
From that link:

Jose Baez, attorney for Casey Anthony, set up a new 24 hour information line late Monday to try and find out the where, when and how the remains ended up where they did.

I sure hope he gives Casey the # of the tip line so she can tell him.

bchand,, so do I.. I guess he thinks the Nanny will give him a call and confess.... Just wait think about the A's throwing tips everywhere . we probably haven't seen anything yet.

BTW has any one seen the pictures yet that was suppose to show casey Caylee and the nanny? Wasn't they supposed to get them last week? Bet the nanny will be invisible.

Baez or someone in the dream team brought that up again about the pic? It was 2 or 3 months ago when Baez first said his PI was on his way to some unnamed dude's home to get the pic. Guess maybe he DID bring it home, and they have been holding on to it for some obscure reason?

[enigma]

Right..I think that's what some are forgetting in this conversation: Casey is deceased.

No, she's in jail.

JMHO

[beetlebrow]

I would like the link BB!

Ok but it might take a few....brb....

[Lavenia]

Right..I think that's what some are forgetting in this conversation: Casey is deceased.

Freudian slip? :lol:

[need2no]

It makes you wonder how many times Baez...err, I mean *someone* could log in and vote, doesn't it?
I can see feeling that there is a chance she is in some manner innocent of the current charges, however slim ( nearly as invisible as Z F-G, IMO)...still I think there is a miniscule *Chance* that Casey may not be responsible in full for Caylee's death. I don't *think* she would cover for anyone...so I can't see her as an accessory, and I don't see any way for her to be completely uninvolved....but I can see voting that she MAY be innocent, but to say you think she IS innocent for certain? ....it makes me wonder about common sense...
JMO.

I thought about the A's voting numerous times so I logged off, then back on, and tried to vote again....it politely thanked me for having previously voted. :smile:

5 attorneys, C & G, Lee, Mallory and her parents, kidfinders...I guess the others who voted innocent could be pranksters having a little fun, and perhaps some who haven't really followed the case.

[AnnInOhio]

Right. Someone earlier said they wish Casey had to brush Caylee's hair for the last time and I realized some people don't realize just what state her remains are in unless they were speaking figuratively.

It was me. I realize all that's left is a skeleton, but they also found her hair. I truly think Casey owes it to Caylee to look at what she's done to that beautiful little girl. Cindy may not have the guts to stand up to Casey and call a spade a spade, but if it were within my power I'd make her look at that skeleton and touch that little girl's hair and own what she's done.

[Rayosunshine]

General expenses of burial would seem to include funeral and plot, I'd think. Casket or urn.

Funeral home expenses include preparing the body, casket and rental of space for services, viewing, transportation to the cemetary. Burial plot expenses are determined by the cemetary chosen and include purchase of a plot, digging the plot and the burial. The funeral home and cemetary are separate entities, unless one owns the other, but costs are usually separate.

With a planned cremation, one can rent a casket for viewing, this is the most cost effective choice. I know from experience.

[beetlebrow]

I would like the link BB!

OK here is the link w/ the photo of the yellow framed childs glasses''...

You will have to blow up the picture to see them..zoom in

Go to the BOTTOM LEFT CORNER and make a 1 1/2 inch diagonal line outward from the corner and the glasses are on the ground. Off to find Caylee picture....

[Mayasmimi]

I don't think we're allowed to abuse them. But when were we allowed to do that. If we have unkind remarks or opinions to make, this is what this board is about but that can be done without horrible, abusive and untrue statements. JMO and I hope this is what that means. Of course it also goes for fellow posters, too-----no abuse of them either. Common sense, JMO again. Okay---now I'm done.

Just read the sticky myself. I don't know what to think. Nothing can be said that will cause them harm. IMOHO......I can't say much of anything. I'm sure if they read here, and I certainly hope they don't, they will "feel" harmed by most of what is written. I just don't know how to interprate the gentle nudge.

[bchand]

Baez or someone in the dream team brought that up again about the pic? It was 2 or 3 months ago when Baez first said his PI was on his way to some unnamed dude's home to get the pic. Guess maybe he DID bring it home, and they have been holding on to it for some obscure reason?

No that post got scrambled. I think Happygert was just asking if anyone had heard anything about that picture they were saying existed.

[Amy]

Who is publishing it?

Maybe they should check in w/whatever publishing house did OJ's book.

[beetlebrow]

OK here is the link w/ the photo of the yellow framed childs glasses''...

You will have to blow up the picture to see them..zoom in

Go to the BOTTOM LEFT CORNER and make a 1 1/2 inch diagonal line outward from the corner and the glasses are on the ground. Off to find Caylee picture....

OOPs....picture #7
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-caylee-anthony-crime-scene-photos-121808,0,4270354.photogallery

[Rayosunshine]

ME HAS released the remains to the next of kin. That would be one Casey Marie Anthony. Since she is incarcerated, she gets to choose to whom SHE will release the remains to.

How long does anyone think Casey has to make that decision?

[AnnInOhio]

Baez or someone in the dream team brought that up again about the pic? It was 2 or 3 months ago when Baez first said his PI was on his way to some unnamed dude's home to get the pic. Guess maybe he DID bring it home, and they have been holding on to it for some obscure reason?

I thought George alluded to there being pornographic pictures of Casey "out there" somewhere. Perhaps it was simply somebodys sick idea of a joke to have a copy of one of those and send Baez on a wild goose chase to come get one.

[Mayasmimi]

Funeral home expenses include preparing the body, casket and rental of space for services, viewing, transportation to the cemetary. Burial plot expenses are determined by the cemetary chosen and include purchase of a plot, digging the plot and the burial. The funeral home and cemetary are separate entities, unless one owns the other, but costs are usually separate.

With a planned cremation, one can rent a casket for viewing, this is the most cost effective choice. I know from experience.

Ray....thanks for the information. So very sorry you know from experience.

[n/t]

OOPs....picture #7
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-caylee-anthony-crime-scene-photos-121808,0,4270354.photogallery

How do I zoom in? TIA I don't see the glasses.

[dixie77]

Mr Conway says they are planning on having a public service, also.

=============

Yeah.......and i'm willing to bet that if the public doesnt start sending donations, there will be no public service. jmo

[OneUp]

Or some who aren't blinded by hate and believe Caylee's death might have been an accident, with extremely poor judgment to follow....but wasn't "accident" an option? I can't see declaring anyone innocent w/o a trial, any more than I can see consequenting them for guilt w/o one. I cannot understand ignoring all of the evidence that ,at least, suggests some guilt on Casey's part.
I wouldn't vote in a poll like that though...it's too limited IMO as I'd think committing to guilt is a little premature...I *think* she's probably guilty...I can't see any other explanation...but I wouldn't lock her up w/o seeing all of the evidence. I guess it's just about opinion though and not as if this were making it to court or anything.
I'm interested in seeing what the defense offers up to try and bring in some reasonable doubt. I can't find any reasonable way to doubt with the given evidence. I think someone would have to perform a miracle to bring anything reasonable in to support doubt and suggest the possibility of innocence, so I'm waiting to be impressed.
Now, why do I fell certain that it won't be Jose impressing me?
JMO.

[Rayosunshine]

Ray....thanks for the information. So very sorry you know from experience.

You are welcome, Maya.

[Lavenia]

It was me. I realize all that's left is a skeleton, but they also found her hair. I truly think Casey owes it to Caylee to look at what she's done to that beautiful little girl. Cindy may not have the guts to stand up to Casey and call a spade a spade, but if it were within my power I'd make her look at that skeleton and touch that little girl's hair and own what she's done.


Good Evening, Ann! She had some hair but I'm sure you're aware that it too has degraded a lot. It's not anything like it was in life.

I think what affected me more about your post more than the hair is you realize that she's not made like we are and it just wouldn't affect her like you're wanting and expecting it to?

I know so much what you mean and how frustrating it is that we can't MAKE her be normal and make Caylee be alive again but we can't make it right again, IMO. (I'm not trying to be contentious, I'm just seeing my old arguments in yours, lol)

[Mayasmimi]

I thought George alluded to there being pornographic pictures of Casey "out there" somewhere. Perhaps it was simply somebodys sick idea of a joke to have a copy of one of those and send Baez on a wild goose chase to come get one.

I saw some pictures of Casey partying and groping women on "thedirty" just after her first arrest. Recently under "cities" (Orlando) there are other pics posted....where she was completely trashed. Not at all flattering. If there were pornographic pics of Casey anywhere on the internet.....I'm guessing Nik Richie would have them posted on thedirty. Just saying.

[Mamie]

Just read the sticky myself. I don't know what to think. Nothing can be said that will cause them harm. IMOHO......I can't say much of anything. I'm sure if they read here, and I certainly hope they don't, they will "feel" harmed by most of what is written. I just don't know how to interprate the gentle nudge.


Well, remember the days when posters had nicknames for Scott Peterson and then we were told we couldn't do that. Still there were things that were said about the Peterson family that were horrible and yes, they were probably hurt because I think a couple of them were on the boards then (JMO) but those kind of things went on. I get the feeling that this board does not intend to be as loose as the old boards were. That being said, I do think the term "harmed" means something stronger than someone getting their feelings hurt. But maybe I'm wrong----Lord knows it surely wouldn't be the first time!

[Lavenia]

How long does anyone think Casey has to make that decision?

After she finishes her beef jerky? :shrug:

[bchand]

I thought George alluded to there being pornographic pictures of Casey "out there" somewhere. Perhaps it was simply somebodys sick idea of a joke to have a copy of one of those and send Baez on a wild goose chase to come get one.


This particular photo was supposed to be of "the Zenaida". Todd Black bragged that they had been looking for this guy who Casey said took a picture of her and that they had found him. Their PI was hot on the trail to go talk to him.

Never heard another word about it.

[Rayosunshine]

It's my take that cremation without planned viewing is the most cost effective.

Yes, it is.

[Amy]

NO problem whatsoever. You just didn't read what I was posting correctly.

Known Mother/Father trumps grandparents. Unknown and not speaking in the terms of actually "whose your daddy" unknown there is NO LAW how could there be. Unknown Father because we don't want to tell you is a whole different animal.

That's the legalites I was ASKING if anyone knew. :)

So far, of the 2 people she said was the dad, one was proven by DNA not to be. The other, she says is dead. Even if they are able to get DNA of that guy, and even if he was biodad, he is dead, and she can name her parents as next of kin, even if biodad's parents want to be named.

Other than that, it's a crap shoot about who dad might be, and she can name names and authorities can demand testing all they want, but if she doesn't come up w/the right name, they will never get a match. And, even if she DOES know and doesn't want to say, if she says she doesn't know, how are they going to prove otherwise?

[happygert]

OOPs....picture #7
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-caylee-anthony-crime-scene-photos-121808,0,4270354.photogallery

Yes they sure are.....

[PROPROS]

I agree...

He did say at one stage that she was a bit clingy, which was part of the reason they first brokw up (that's how he put it - I didn't know they broke up twice). But it sounded like he then fell in love with her.

Another interesting thing was about paternity. GVS asked him why he took the test and he simply said that it was just not possible that he was the father, since Caylee was a full term baby and Casey and he just hadn't been together that long for it to happen. Casey was adamant that he was the father and got quite upset when he said he couldn't be... hence the test.

He said a few times that that piece of paper (the DNA test results) didn't change in the least the way he felt about Caylee. "No piece of paper is going to tell me not to love Caylee", I think is the way he put it.

What on earth happened to change Casey so, almost overnight?

IIRC, those computer searches were done in March, so if that's right, was Casey's love and concern around Caylee for appearances' sake, or what? Jesse seems quite certain when he refers to May as the time when Casey changed, but obviously something was developing back in March...

JMHOI found it very interesting that he stated that she was "clingy". IMO, this is how she came across with Tony L. He has also stated (in the past) that she became religious and a Yankee's fan to please him. Seems like Casey assumed the "personality"(likes and dislikes) of whatever she thought would please the person she was involved with. mo

[Calla]

From what I heard Jesse say it sounds like an unhealthy power struggle was going on between Casey and Cindy over the baby. It wasn't difficult to sense that before he said it. It's understandable for Cindy to consider the baby hers since she lived in her home since birth. No doubt the lines got blurred. It's beyond tragic it came to this.
My daughter was younger than casey when her hidden pregnancy resulted in a last minute prep for a baby. That baby was raised by me and I even got pummeled for considering taking legal guardianship. Not because I was controlling necessarily, but because I did not know the father that well and was going to do all I could to insure that baby had a good life and was provided for. Thats what I believe Cindy started out doing as well. Now jesse seems like a wonderful person, but I don't know him any more than I know Cindy ..so her actions could have been misconstrued by him and also exaggerated by casey for attentions sake. I don't know. But I can say I believe she loved that baby as much as anyone could have.
I refuse to condemn that family for how they are acting or reacting, because my daughter did not allow her childs death to come about. Thank God. I don't know what kind of craziness I would be capable of. Did she do every thing to my satisfaction or approval, no. Did I fear for the child's safety and best interest at times, yes.
I will say this, If it were my daughter, nothing she did and nothing anyone said would stop me from loving her. Its unconditional and more than that, it is uncontrollable. I am incapable of turning off the love for my child, and maybe, just maybe, they are too.

[Amy]

Somewhere someone either on NG, Geraldo, or it could have been the Dr. Phil episode last week- said that if they Caylees dna , then they have to have the fathers dna. Was this an incorrect statement?

No, it's not an incorrect statement. That is how paternity testing is accomplished. Caylee's biodad's DNA is part of her DNA--the problem is, they have to have a person to match it up to.

[need2no]

Funeral home expenses include preparing the body, casket and rental of space for services, viewing, transportation to the cemetary. Burial plot expenses are determined by the cemetary chosen and include purchase of a plot, digging the plot and the burial. The funeral home and cemetary are separate entities, unless one owns the other, but costs are usually separate.

With a planned cremation, one can rent a casket for viewing, this is the most cost effective choice. I know from experience.


Don't want to be too graphic...but in this case there will be no embalming or restoration of appearance, dressing, or viewing. I would think this would reduce the funeral costs by a significant amount. Of course I do realize a plot, funeral services, limos, etc. are still costly.

[happygert]

How do I zoom in? TIA I don't see the glasses.

hold down ctrl and hit + some will let you zoom in that way.

[Ionmhainn]

I saw some pictures of Casey partying and groping women on "thedirty" just after her first arrest. Recently under "cities" (Orlando) there are other pics posted....where she was completely trashed. Not at all flattering. If there were pornographic pics of Casey anywhere on the internet.....I'm guessing Nik Richie would have them posted on thedirty. Just saying.


I think you're right, they would have appeared by now if they existed. I think the pictures you mentioned are the ones referred to. The "shocking" description is more about ...when...they were taken, rather than the content. IMO, that is.

[Mayasmimi]

Well, remember the days when posters had nicknames for Scott Peterson and then we were told we couldn't do that. Still there were things that were said about the Peterson family that were horrible and yes, they were probably hurt because I think a couple of them were on the boards then (JMO) but those kind of things went on. I get the feeling that this board does not intend to be as loose as the old boards were. That being said, I do think the term "harmed" means something stronger than someone getting their feelings hurt. But maybe I'm wrong----Lord knows it surely wouldn't be the first time!


Thanks Mamie. I do remember. I was just wondering, after the sticky, if we were even allowed to mention parents. Guess...until I know better I will err on the safe side. Not that a nic on a message board matters to me personally. I just don't want to cause anyone any more heartache than they are already experiencing. Doesn't mean I don't have my own opinions.

Thanks again.

[happygert]

Im betting first bag meter reader seen was her clothes' and everything that was Caylee's that was in that car.

[Amy]

Has anyone read the sticky about the rules we signed when we signed up here? So now does that mean that we are no longer allowed to discuss Cindy and George or we will be banned? I don't understand what is she trying to say?

What who is trying to say? And what did she say about what? I haven't seen any moderator posts cautioning anyone about posts so far tonight.

[PROPROS]

From what I heard Jesse say it sounds like an unhealthy power struggle was going on between Casey and Cindy over the baby. It wasn't difficult to sense that before he said it. It's understandable for Cindy to consider the baby hers since she lived in her home since birth. No doubt the lines got blurred. It's beyond tragic it came to this.I agree and GA also talked about that with IIRC the FBI. That was in regards to Cindy being the first to hold Caylee and Casey never really getting over it.mo

[Mamie]

Thanks Mamie. I do remember. I was just wondering, after the sticky, if we were even allowed to mention parents. Guess...until I know better I will err on the safe side. Not that a nic on a message board matters to me personally. I just don't want to cause anyone any more heartache than they are already experiencing. Doesn't mean I don't have my own opinions.

Thanks again.

You're very welcome and exactly right! I have my opinions too. I'll take your advice and err on the safe side also---lol.

[Neffy]

...but wasn't "accident" an option? I can't see declaring anyone innocent w/o a trial, any more than I can see consequenting them for guilt w/o one. I cannot understand ignoring all of the evidence that ,at least, suggests some guilt on Casey's part.
I wouldn't vote in a poll like that though...it's too limited IMO as I'd think committing to guilt is a little premature...I *think* she's probably guilty...I can't see any other explanation...but I wouldn't lock her up w/o seeing all of the evidence. I guess it's just about opinion though and not as if this were making it to court or anything.
I'm interested in seeing what the defense offers up to try and bring in some reasonable doubt. I can't find any reasonable way to doubt with the given evidence. I think someone would have to perform a miracle to bring anything reasonable in to support doubt and suggest the possibility of innocence, so I'm waiting to be impressed.
Now, why do I fell certain that it won't be Jose impressing me?
JMO.


Accident is an option at this point in time due to the fact that there is no cause of death that could be found. It would have to be a confession to the last person being with her that witnessed this "accident" and to say what happened in detail. Right now manner of death Homicide. No one has an "accident" or witness's and "accident" then hides the body to hide the "accident"

[Lavenia]

OOPs....picture #7
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-caylee-anthony-crime-scene-photos-121808,0,4270354.photogallery

I can't get a great resolution out of this to tell from the leaves... I can see hat you're talking about but I couldn't have told it if you didn't tell me, lol.

[dixie77]

Originally Posted by beetlebrow
OOPs....picture #7
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-c...4.photogallery

=================

r u talking about the yellow thing sitting on a branch?

[MerriMent]

From what I heard Jesse say it sounds like an unhealthy power struggle was going on between Casey and Cindy over the baby. It wasn't difficult to sense that before he said it. It's understandable for Cindy to consider the baby hers since she lived in her home since birth. No doubt the lines got blurred. It's beyond tragic it came to this.

I think it sounds more as though both Cindy and Casey knew exactly the button to push to manipulate the other and Caylee was that button.

[Mamie]

What who is trying to say? And what did she say about what? I haven't seen any moderator posts cautioning anyone about posts so far tonight.


It's a sticky. Go back out to the threads and you'll see one that says something about do we remember signing....you'll see it.

[Amy]

Hello. Can someone please tell me what that sticky means?

I went back and looked, and there are no stickies on this forum except the morning's posts, the links stickies.

[happygert]

So there were 2 bags?

one said he seen grey bag.....she was found in black bags......so I
m assuming there was 2 different colored bags....jmo just assuming....

[Crispy]

I went back and looked, and there are no stickies on this forum except the morning's posts, the links stickies.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346985

[Amy]

Right. Someone earlier said they wish Casey had to brush Caylee's hair for the last time and I realized some people don't realize just what state her remains are in unless they were speaking figuratively.

I didn't know how to post it, but I don't remember hearing how much hair was on the skull, and if it would even be in a state to be brushed. I do remember hearing there WAS hair, tho, as it was described as to be the color of Caylee's.

[Mayasmimi]

I think you're right, they would have appeared by now if they existed. I think the pictures you mentioned are the ones referred to. The "shocking" description is more about ...when...they were taken, rather than the content. IMO, that is.

She is clothed and they are still very shocking. The pics, if I recall correctly, were taken AFTER Caylee went missing....as were the store security pictures of her purchases at Target.....with stolen money, but before G and C new, and certainly before Caylee was reported missing. I mispoke before. Does not appear to be a grieving Mom in any way. JMO.

Unbelievable.:closedeyes:

[bchand]

What who is trying to say? And what did she say about what? I haven't seen any moderator posts cautioning anyone about posts so far tonight.


Pls check your pms.

[Mayasmimi]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346985

Posted sticky at 6:20ish. By CW.

[Amy]

There you go!! That's what I thought. Now coming full circle. With all the lies the Anthony's have told do you think there word would be taken at face value or is it up to Childrens services to go further to verify no father is living and exists.

Would an obit clipping suffice? I guess it depends on how far they want to take it since the endangerment/negligence charges were dropped. (at least I thought those charges were dropped when they charged her with 1st degree)

I mean Casey says Caylee has a half sibling out there and I'm sure a phone call could verify that. Unless that numbers in that other darn missing cell phone. :)

I am guessing that LE, SRS, the courts, NO ONE feels this is a legal issue, as no department has pursued it. Since none of us here on the board have come up with a legal ruling, I would say that those who KNOW legal must know there is not something in the laws that would mandate that the biodad is found and named.

[Mamie]

I went back and looked, and there are no stickies on this forum except the morning's posts, the links stickies.

If you go back out to the Caylee Anthony forum, the sticky you want to read is #2 in line. It is dated today, 12/22.

[OneUp]

Accident is an option at this point in time due to the fact that there is no cause of death that could be found. It would have to be a confession to the last person being with her that witnessed this "accident" and to say what happened in detail. Right now manner of death Homicide. No one has an "accident" or witness's and "accident" then hides the body to hide the "accident"I know it's still an "option' for court...I was referring to the poll. I'm still a little agog thast anyone chose 'innocent'...there is ALOT of evidence made public that at LEAST gives one pause...at least.
JMO, though.

[Calla]

Accident is an option at this point in time due to the fact that there is no cause of death that could be found. It would have to be a confession to the last person being with her that witnessed this "accident" and to say what happened in detail. Right now manner of death Homicide. No one has an "accident" or witness's and "accident" then hides the body to hide the "accident"Not necessarily..
ppl have accidently run over ppl andbecause they were drinking, they hid the facts.

Remember, this person hid her pregnancy and mom felt the need to kind of take charge because obviously she had not made the right choice.
There are alot of ppl that hide accidents and mistakes due to the fear of being judged or diappointing to someone. Granted, most of the time those ppl are younger children, but I think Casey is missing some sort of level of maturity anyway..all is jmo

[Mayasmimi]

So far, of the 2 people she said was the dad, one was proven by DNA not to be. The other, she says is dead. Even if they are able to get DNA of that guy, and even if he was biodad, he is dead, and she can name her parents as next of kin, even if biodad's parents want to be named.

Other than that, it's a crap shoot about who dad might be, and she can name names and authorities can demand testing all they want, but if she doesn't come up w/the right name, they will never get a match. And, even if she DOES know and doesn't want to say, if she says she doesn't know, how are they going to prove otherwise?

Just me? Why would it benefit the State to verify who Caylee's Father is? No way, in my head. I would assume that the Father's family would benefit. Wonder if we soon see a multitude of men come forward....ya know....for a piece of the pie.

Sorry...that was vile, but I had to.

[Amy]

Is it normal to have to have donations for the funeral of a family member?
I can't believe they can't find the money to bury their grandbaby.
Sell a car , Lee can't help?
I would be so embarrassed to have to take donations .

I realize some people really have hardship but the middle class Anthonys ?

I know I will take flak for these thoughts but they are my thoughts.

In these parts, if there is a family in need, not able to pay burial expenses, FRIENDS will do things like hold benefits, or go by word of mouth to maybe donate $$ toward expenses instead of flowers, etc. BUT, I haven't ever heard of THE FAMILY going to the public to request assistance. In fact, just recently a co-worker died and many employees donated $$ toward expenses, it was requested by another co-worker who knew the family and that there was a need.

[Mayasmimi]

If you go back out to the Caylee Anthony forum, the sticky you want to read is #2 in line. It is dated today, 12/22.

Thanks....Now how difficult is that? Sorry....Getting cranky. Not at all in the Christmas spirit this year. Cannot wait until it's over.

[Amy]

This would be correct.

Thank you all for your condolences. The cost may be significantly higher now I should add. It's been 13 yrs since my daughter was killed and she was 17 at the time. So she was full price.

But then she was always a high end girl. God, i miss her.

:rose::rose::rose:

[Calla]

Cindy could have called herself 'mom' in front of casey by accident (referring to jesse's statement on ng).
I have done it trying to take care of my children's kids...that doesn't mean you are taking over. It could mean you are tired and pooped and beat and losing it...

i've done it

[Neffy]

Not necessarily..
ppl have accidently run over ppl andbecause they were drinking, they hid the facts.

Remember, this person hid her pregnancy and mom felt the need to kind of take charge because obviously she had not made the right choice.
There are alot of ppl that hide accidents and mistakes due to the fear of being judged or diappointing to someone. Granted, most of the time those ppl are younger children, but I think Casey is missing some sort of level of maturity anyway..all is jmo

Correct you've named another. Sorry I didn't mean to imply my example was the only example.

My main point was because the cause of death is open - something can even be made up to fit the evidence to try to sway the jury to a lesser charge or for the state to come up with a lesser charge.

[Mayasmimi]

Then I wonder who "Nan" is?

I believe Nan is Cindy. I doubt Cindy was calling herself Mom. I just don't see it. Been in the same place as Cindy.

[Mamie]

Did you hear Jesse on NG say that Cindy called herself "mom" to Caylee in front of Casey? Waht was that all about? :blink:

In my opinion, Cindy likes to dominate and she likes to show off the control she has, also she likes to intimidate Casey whenever she can and she knows what buttons to push. Casey, as well, knows what buttons to push back with. Very dangerous relationship these two have. First, we heard, Cindy forced Casey to keep the baby when she didn't want to and this was because Cindy wanted a baby, I think. I feel that Cindy always wanted to be more than a grandmother. Cindy has her looks still (sort of) and does not look like a grandmother type so why couldn't she pull off being the actual mother of little Caylee----she thought. I'm sure that Casey knew this. They both enjoy playing mind games, big time. All this is JMO

[Lavenia]

I didn't know how to post it, but I don't remember hearing how much hair was on the skull, and if it would even be in a state to be brushed. I do remember hearing there WAS hair, tho, as it was described as to be the color of Caylee's.

Oh there was certainly hair! I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't, and I have no idea the amount, of course, I just don't think it's in any shape for anyone to be brushing, unfortunately.

[happygert]

It had to be someone she was with in november of 04 I'd think the guys she was with would be doing the math.. they just dont want to know..just my opinion

[AnnInOhio]

I am guessing that LE, SRS, the courts, NO ONE feels this is a legal issue, as no department has pursued it. Since none of us here on the board have come up with a legal ruling, I would say that those who KNOW legal must know there is not something in the laws that would mandate that the biodad is found and named.

LE gave up on the child endangerment and the case transferred from family/juvenile to criminal court after it became clear (at least to LE) that Caylee was dead, not just missing. It would no longer, IMO, be a legal issue. Whether or not it is a moral issue to deny a child a father is not worth debating since the child is dead, yet it's perhaps indicative of the value system of the adults in her life.

[n/t]

hold down ctrl and hit + some will let you zoom in that way.

Thanks. I zoomed in but still didn't see them.

[Mayasmimi]

:rose::rose::rose:

I cannot find Aeme's orignal post. Aeme.....I am so sorry. Cannot imagine what you went through. Wow.

[MerriMent]

Not necessarily..
ppl have accidently run over ppl andbecause they were drinking, they hid the facts.

Remember, this person hid her pregnancy and mom felt the need to kind of take charge because obviously she had not made the right choice.
There are alot of ppl that hide accidents and mistakes due to the fear of being judged or diappointing to someone. Granted, most of the time those ppl are younger children, but I think Casey is missing some sort of level of maturity anyway..all is jmo

an "accident" out of intentional negligence isn't an accident, it's a crime. People "hide" them because they don't want to pay the consequences. Casey Anthony is a liar who claims she is not responsible and is not guilty. From that, I don't know how anyone can conclude she is responsible but it was an accident. I think that's baloney. Innocent people don't hide true accidents. They try to get help.

[enigma]

Was it friend Christine who said that was a favorite place of Casey's? She buried her hamsters there, they hung out there. So, I can imagine that Baez would be saying LE doesn't know WHEN this soil was deposited on Casey's shoes. It could have been last year, and maybe she hasn't worn those particular shoes since the last time she went there.

I think it was KioMarie, but it's not important. Whoever it was, they said that. In fact, Casey herself in one of the jail interviews said to Lee that Cindy would know where to look (for Caylee). Somewhere near, the family knows. I'll see if I can find the exact quote. I looked at it again just a few hours ago...

JMHO

[Amy]

Where are they going to get security if they have no money???

Why would they need security? It will be a memorial. Doesn't say anything about the A's actually attending, and I highly doubt Caylee's remains will be there.

[Mayasmimi]

It had to be someone she was with in november of 04 I'd think the guys she was with would be doing the math.. they just dont want to know..just my opinion


Or maybe doing the Meth. Maybe? Who knows.

[Ionmhainn]

She is clothed and they are still very shocking. The pics, if I recall correctly, were taken AFTER Caylee went missing....as were the store security pictures of her purchases at Target.....with stolen money, but before G and C new, and certainly before Caylee was reported missing. I mispoke before. Does not appear to be a grieving Mom in any way. JMO.

Unbelievable.:closedeyes:


Yes, that's all I was saying...that I thought those were the pictures referred to...as opposed to the rumors of "other" kinds of photos.

[Neffy]

I know it's still an "option' for court...I was referring to the poll. I'm still a little agog thast anyone chose 'innocent'...there is ALOT of evidence made public that at LEAST gives one pause...at least.
JMO, though.

Ah sorry. Yep I agree. There is alot of evidence all pointing to one very visible person.

[Calla]

an "accident" out of intentional negligence isn't an accident, it's a crime. People "hide" them because they don't want to pay the consequences. Casey Anthony is a liar who claims she is not responsible and is not guilty. From that, I don't know how anyone can conclude she is responsible but it was an accident. I think that's baloney. Innocent people don't hide true accidents. They try to get help.

I did not imply or say she was innocent...
the word accident means it was unintended.
I dont think casey meant to kill caylee. i do not think she was in a rage..

then we have the internet searches referred to...
so i will think what i choose to now and i will think something else later..which is why i will not be sitting on that jury or any other.

and by the way, disappointing someone or being disapproved of, is in reality, a consequence

[Lavenia]

Good night all! :seeya: The worser my spelling gets the more the bed beckons! :ohmy:

I enjoy ya'll as usual! See ya' tomorrow. Everyone stay warm!

[AnnInOhio]

Oh there was certainly hair! I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't, and I have no idea the amount, of course, I just don't think it's in any shape for anyone to be brushing, unfortunately.

Hence a visual of what Casey has done to her daughter. How many times had Casey brushed that little girl's hair? If anything is going to break Casey, and perhaps awaken some sense of humanity within her, don't you think that would be it?

[need2no]

Yes, that's all I was saying...that I thought those were the pictures referred to...as opposed to the rumors of "other" kinds of photos.

In the FBI interview with George, the agent advised him that they have 1200 other really bad pics of casey, so it's not just a rumor.

[DoubleFelix]

I believe Nan is Cindy. I doubt Cindy was calling herself Mom. I just don't see it. Been in the same place as Cindy.

I read somewhere at sometime that Casey said something about her Nana, so I thought Nan(a) is Cindy's mom, Shirley. [Nana and Papa]

[Amy]

snip......
On another note, I was thinking about this after I signed off the other day----------wasn't it the Anthonys who were looking to hire (for free---no pay) an assistant to assist George and Lee for personal errands, etc. way back when?? Does anyone remember this or do I have the wrong case? TIA!

Yes, but I don't know if they meant one assistant for the both, or one assistant for each. I haven't seen anything where anyone stepped up and took the volunteer "job."

[happygert]

Thanks. I zoomed in but still didn't see them.

go to left corner...then take and go from corner draw a line like your going to the opposite corner at top. only go about inch to inch and half they are there If I take my finger and lay it on screen at bottom of picture im pointing right to it

[Mamie]

Thanks....Now how difficult is that? Sorry....Getting cranky. Not at all in the Christmas spirit this year. Cannot wait until it's over.


Funny you should say that----this is the worst Christmas for me (just not interested in it at all) and I don't know why. Maybe it's this case. JMO

[~tj~]

Is it possible for Casey to donate the balance in her commisary account to her daughter's funeral expenses?
All Casey wanted to put towards her daughters funeral was 2 black trash bags and some duct tape.

[marabeth]

If you go back out to the Caylee Anthony forum, the sticky you want to read is #2 in line. It is dated today, 12/22.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346985

[AnnInOhio]

I did not imply or say she was innocent...
the word accident means it was unintended.
I dont think casey meant to kill caylee. i do not think she was in a rage..

then we have the internet searches referred to...
so i will think what i choose to now and i will think something else later..which is why i will not be sitting on that jury or any other.

and by the way, disappointing someone or being disapproved of, is in reality, a consequence

I don't think it was in a rage, either. I think evidence is going to show it was a calm, premeditated murder. The motive? Most likely jealousy and revenge; to take someone from Cindy that she loved because she could.

[Neffy]

an "accident" out of intentional negligence isn't an accident, it's a crime. People "hide" them because they don't want to pay the consequences. Casey Anthony is a liar who claims she is not responsible and is not guilty. From that, I don't know how anyone can conclude she is responsible but it was an accident. I think that's baloney. Innocent people don't hide true accidents. They try to get help.

It's a different degree of homicide. 1st degree, manslaughter etc.

I'm guilty myself of not using the proper terms to get my point across. I took that poster as referring to the degrees/charges.

I've posted it before but the term accident is a really loose term. A car accident with a drunk driver, trip down the stairs accident. It has a broad meaning.

[Bird]

My daughter was younger than casey when her hidden pregnancy resulted in a last minute prep for a baby. That baby was raised by me and I even got pummeled for considering taking legal guardianship. Not because I was controlling necessarily, but because I did not know the father that well and was going to do all I could to insure that baby had a good life and was provided for. Thats what I believe Cindy started out doing as well. Now jesse seems like a wonderful person, but I don't know him any more than I know Cindy ..so her actions could have been misconstrued by him and also exaggerated by casey for attentions sake. I don't know. But I can say I believe she loved that baby as much as anyone could have.
I refuse to condemn that family for how they are acting or reacting, because my daughter did not allow her childs death to come about. Thank God. I don't know what kind of craziness I would be capable of. Did she do every thing to my satisfaction or approval, no. Did I fear for the child's safety and best interest at times, yes.
I will say this, If it were my daughter, nothing she did and nothing anyone said would stop me from loving her. Its unconditional and more than that, it is uncontrollable. I am incapable of turning off the love for my child, and maybe, just maybe, they are too.

Good post, and very humane. Refreshing to see it, honestly. While I do think Cindy Anthony seems to be quite controlling, I also see a human being who has been tested beyond any normal mortal's endurance, and who has HAD to be controlling for years before all of this happened because the people around her were not being responsible, were not carrying their fair share of the load and were leaving it all on her. From what I've read, she's had to be the primary breadwinner in her marriage, she's endured the pain of multiple infidelities by George (according to reports), and now she's lost the beloved little granddaughter she'd raised and loved, and she's also lost her daughter for all intents and purposes, and may have to face the fact that this daughter she loves is the one who murdered Caylee, or caused harm that led to her death.

The Anthonys' life is in shreds, their privacy is gone, their home has lost any sense of being a sacred and private refuge from the world, and they've undoubtedly got money troubles and no clear sense at all of their own future. Yes, I think it's pretty obvious that Cindy covered for Casey after initially suspecting her, but maybe that's what a mother finds herself doing in unthinkable circumstances like this--I don't know, because this has never happened to me, thank God.

All I know is that I can't judge any mother for defending her child--even when that child is someone I personally find completely reprehensible and repellant on several levels. Whenever I find myself judging Cindy Anthony, which does happen sometimes, I try to remember the sound of her voice, the sheer gutwrenching panic in it, on the night when she called 911 to say that she'd just found out her granddaughter had been "taken" and that "it smelled like there'd been a dead body in the damn car!" In that moment, Cindy Anthony's life as she knew it was gone forever, and from the sound of her voice, somehow I think that even then she knew it. Whatever she did or said after that, somehow I can't judge her.

[Mamie]

Yes, but I don't know if they meant one assistant for the both, or one assistant for each. I haven't seen anything where anyone stepped up and took the volunteer "job."


Me either, I had forgotten about that and then found myself wondering whether I even had the right case or not. I kind of think I remember the ad looking for one person----not to say they'd turn down the other if they liked two of the people. Afterall, they weren't able to pay them so............JMO

Thanks Amy

[MerriMent]

I think it was KioMarie, but it's not important. Whoever it was, they said that. In fact, Casey herself in one of the jail interviews said to Lee that Cindy would know where to look (for Caylee). Somewhere near, the family knows. I'll see if I can find the exact quote. I looked at it again just a few hours ago...

JMHO

I think Casey was hoping her hints would lead Lee to "find" the body and hide it better to keep her secret from their parents. Her "Zanny has her, maybe NC, maybe NY, maybe PR" had them going up until the body was identified.

[SwFlorida]

I read somewhere at sometime that Casey said something about her Nana, so I thought Nan(a) is Cindy's mom, Shirley. [Nana and Papa]
I thought Cici was Cindy and Joe Joe George..:shrug:

[Neffy]

I don't think it was in a rage, either. I think evidence is going to show it was a calm, premeditated murder. The motive? Most likely jealousy and revenge; to take someone from Cindy that she loved because she could.

I've been waffling back and forth on this. I think she's thought of it looked into while in a rage but never carried it out. Didn't have an exact plan "yet".

Then I think because she was thinking about it her rage made her snap and it was a homicide of rage.

I don't know if my second thought would be considered premeditated.

I don't think it falls under that. I do believe rage/revenge was the center of it.

If it was premeditated, I mean planning it, I think she snapped before she really came up with a good perfect crime hence the "zanny" defense.

[Amy]

How long does anyone think Casey has to make that decision?

I would assume she has already made that decision as they are talking about services.

AND, I haven't seen or read reports (and I'm thinking it would REALLY be a BOMBSHELL) that say otherwise, or that she ever considered NOT turning Caylee over to Cindy.

[happygert]

Funny you should say that----this is the worst Christmas for me (just not interested in it at all) and I don't know why. Maybe it's this case. JMO

neither am I.. Just cant get with it.

[Jester]

I think Casey was hoping her hints would lead Lee to "find" the body and hide it better to keep her secret from their parents. Her "Zanny has her, maybe NC, maybe NY, maybe PR" had them going up until the body was identified.

I think you make a good point. Casey repeatedly said that Caylee was close. Maybe Casey and Lee both played, as children, in the area where Caylee was found. Maybe Lee dropped out of the picture a couple of months ago because he knew where she was, and didn't want to be the person credited with finding the body.

[happygert]

n/t did you find them?

[Jester]

I can't keep up with the pace of these threads, but I did hear that Cindy and George have asked the public to donate money for a funeral, or a memorial service. Is there any public record of the money that has already been donated, and is it known that there are no funds in that "find Caylee" account that can be used for memorial or funeral services?

Does anyone know if the funds donated for finding Caylee can now be rolled over to defend Casey?

[OneUp]

Maybe that's why LE offered Casey a deal initially. I doubt very much if her defense will be accident. She's sticking to the imaginary nanny lie.
Jurors might have a hard time imagining a mother clubbing as she did following such a accident.Wouldn't her early refusal to consider/enter into a deal based on accidental death work against her? I thought that might enter into the trial were her defense to try and push scenarios of accidnet...but I could be wrong about that, thus I'm asking...
anyone?
Where is katprint when we need her input? I find her VERY reliable, and a helpful source on legal issues.
* If this case is affecting your Holiday mood, I'd suggest either volunteering some time ( seeing how much your attentions mean to others always helps), or just "faking it" until you "make it"...that works pretty well if you have little ones counting on you to make the season bright. Sorry for the somewhat O/t...I guess not totally, as it is about how caylee's case has affected us. But sorry if it bothers some.

[Amy]

This particular photo was supposed to be of "the Zenaida". Todd Black bragged that they had been looking for this guy who Casey said took a picture of her and that they had found him. Their PI was hot on the trail to go talk to him.

Never heard another word about it.

And, of course, the icing on the cake, or the finish on the photo was that Caylee also was in that pic, with the infamous Zenaida. I can't remember if Casey was in it too? Too long ago for me to remember.

[MerriMent]

It's a different degree of homicide. 1st degree, manslaughter etc.

I'm guilty myself of not using the proper terms to get my point across. I took that poster as referring to the degrees/charges.

I've posted it before but the term accident is a really loose term. A car accident with a drunk driver, trip down the stairs accident. It has a broad meaning.


I think you are giving it a broader meaning. It doesn't matter what "degree" of homicide, it's not an accident if the driver was drunk. It is illegal to be drunk and drive. An accident is something that happens for reasons beyond someone's control. Casey is also charged with child abuse. There's nothing accidental about child abuse. Parents who are negligent about their child's safety are going to be held accountable for placing them in harm's way. Not only did Caylee die, she was discarded as a bag of trash. It's not justice for her to call any part of it an accident but that's just my opinion. Off my soapbox now.

[need2no]

Yes, I heard that, but still think the ones we have seen would be shocking enough to the grandfather of a "missing" child, don't you? Or any father, for that matter, imo.

Yes, I would certainly agree a father would find those pics (the ones we have seen) as shocking and upsetting, and especially under the circumstances, and especially if he was truly oblivious to her ' wild partying side'. Remember at one point George said casey would just pop in to restaurants to say hi to her friends briefly, but didn't hang out long at at, or smoke or drink.

But the point is from what the FBI agent told George the 1200 other photos they have of casey are apparently even worse.

[Neffy]

I think you make a good point. Casey repeatedly said that Caylee was close. Maybe Casey and Lee both played, as children, in the area where Caylee was found. Maybe Lee dropped out of the picture a couple of months ago because he knew where she was, and didn't want to be the person credited with finding the body.

This is one of the reasons I waffle back and forth. Knowing what we know now those clues that she'd been dropping. I've got a hard time believing these were innocent coincidences of symantex. That code nonsense. Extremely unsettling.

[AnnInOhio]

I've been waffling back and forth on this. I think she's thought of it looked into while in a rage but never carried it out. Didn't have an exact plan "yet".

Then I think because she was thinking about it her rage made her snap and it was a homicide of rage.

I don't know if my second thought would be considered premeditated.

I don't think it falls under that. I do believe rage/revenge was the center of it.

If it was premeditated, I mean planning it, I think she snapped before she really came up with a good perfect crime hence the "zanny" defense.

I'd go for "rage" if she'd left the house and killed her the night of the 15th following the fight with her mom. But George said she left the next day saying hi ho hi ho its off to work I go yet she really doesn't leave the area. That's not my idea of rage; that's calm premeditation. And it had to happen that afternoon, because she wasn't seen anywhere that night and the cell phone activity lulls that day.

[Bird]

neither am I.. Just cant get with it.

I couldn't admit this to anyone but you guys here on the board, because no one else would understand it, but ever since they identified Caylee's body last week, I can't sleep. When I go to bed at night, no matter how tired I am, every time I start to fall asleep the image of that bag with Caylee's little body in it being tossed out like trash comes into my half-asleep mind and wakes me up like that. My husband thinks I'm just having midlife insomnia, and I can't bring myself to tell him that the problem is I keep seeing Caylee being thrown away as if she wasn't even human. The other thing that keeps me awake is her little voice saying, "Papa, you tired, Papa?" How many 2 year olds would have the compassion to notice that their great grandpa was tired, much less to care?

There's no one in my RL who could ever understand how I feel about this.

[Amy]

one said he seen grey bag.....she was found in black bags......so I
m assuming there was 2 different colored bags....jmo just assuming....

I had heard this too, can't remember which show and which TH or "guest" but that there were 2 different color of bags. Wonder what DID happen to the gray bag?

[taylor63]

Brad Conway, attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, said an autopsy will be done by defense experts after the medical examiner releases the remains. Then the grandparents will decide how to proceed with a memorial, Conway told WESH.

WFTV-Channel 9's Mary Nguyen reported that George and Cindy Anthony might ask for donations to bury Caylee. "The Anthonys are hoping the public will pay for their granddaughter's funeral," Nguyen said.

What do you make of that?

Conway said a trust fund will be established to pay for the funeral, and the family will seek donations from the public, Nguyen reported. The average cost for a funeral is $6,000, she added.

On WKMG-Channel 6, Conway said that George and Cindy Anthony are supporting Casey. "They want the truth, whatever that is," Conway said. "Whatever the truth is, they will stand by their daughter."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/caylee-anthonys.html


I knew this was coming. They dont want the memorial up . They don't want people putting things out there for Caylee but yet going to ask for donations to bury her......They want their privacy but yet asking again from the public for donations.


I really would't be so quick to judge the Anthonys on this. Funerals are very expensive today. I heard Caylee had a trust fund put back. Even so,that might not be enough to pay for her funeral. It's very sad,but it is reality of the way things are today.

When my aunt died of cancer a few years ago,the cheapest funeral available was almost ten thousands dollars. Our family all chipped in and paid the costs because she had no life insurance.

Maybe the Anthonys really just don't have enough money to pay for the funeral, and that is why they are turning to the public, specifically the people who prayed for and love Caylee to help out.

[Amy]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346985

Thanks. I had only looked in this forum, and after my second post realized it referenced to the other page.

[Neffy]

I think you are giving it a broader meaning. It doesn't matter what "degree" of homicide, it's not an accident if the driver was drunk. It is illegal to be drunk and drive. An accident is something that happens for reasons beyond someone's control. Casey is also charged with child abuse. There's nothing accidental about child abuse. Parents who are negligent about their child's safety are going to be held accountable for placing them in harm's way. Not only did Caylee die, she was discarded as a bag of trash. It's not justice for her to call any part of it an accident but that's just my opinion. Off my soapbox now.


Example:
There was an accident the other day, a drunk driver hit a pedestrian.

It's a term HUMAN BEINGS use loosely. We call it an accident then elaborate. Was it deliberate that this drunk ran someone down, no. Accident waiting to happen. See there I go again with the "a" word.

OH never mind. :)

[MoonFlwr]

I couldn't admit this to anyone but you guys here on the board, because no one else would understand it, but ever since they identified Caylee's body last week, I can't sleep. When I go to bed at night, no matter how tired I am, every time I start to fall asleep the image of that bag with Caylee's little body in it being tossed out like trash comes into my half-asleep mind and wakes me up like that. My husband thinks I'm just having midlife insomnia, and I can't bring myself to tell him that the problem is I keep seeing Caylee being thrown away as if she wasn't even human. The other thing that keeps me awake is her little voice saying, "Papa, you tired, Papa?" How many 2 year olds would have the compassion to notice that their great grandpa was tired, much less to care?

There's no one in my RL who could ever understand how I feel about this.

Caylee's story is so severely disturbing, Bird..it's no wonder it is affecting you (and other people) so much!
I am glad that you felt comfortable enough to talk about it on here!

*HUGS*

[Neffy]

*waves bye* Off shopping HO HO HO!

[PROPROS]

an "accident" out of intentional negligence isn't an accident, it's a crime. People "hide" them because they don't want to pay the consequences. Casey Anthony is a liar who claims she is not responsible and is not guilty. From that, I don't know how anyone can conclude she is responsible but it was an accident. I think that's baloney. Innocent people don't hide true accidents. They try to get help.:thumbsup:Couldn't agree more. I don't think there was anything "accidental" about Caylee's death. Casey showed nothing (after the death) which would lead me to believe otherwise.IMO, her computer searches back that up.mo

[MerriMent]

If innocent people never tried to hide a true accident, there would be no need to distinguish it as an available legal theory.

Casey hasn't claimed Caylee died in a "true accident." She claims the nanny took my baby.

[Dells]

I couldn't admit this to anyone but you guys here on the board, because no one else would understand it, but ever since they identified Caylee's body last week, I can't sleep. When I go to bed at night, no matter how tired I am, every time I start to fall asleep the image of that bag with Caylee's little body in it being tossed out like trash comes into my half-asleep mind and wakes me up like that. My husband thinks I'm just having midlife insomnia, and I can't bring myself to tell him that the problem is I keep seeing Caylee being thrown away as if she wasn't even human. The other thing that keeps me awake is her little voice saying, "Papa, you tired, Papa?" How many 2 year olds would have the compassion to notice that their great grandpa was tired, much less to care?

There's no one in my RL who could ever understand how I feel about this.

I know, this case just haunts me. It haunts me to know that we may never know what happened to Caylee. I can't think that it was an accident. If it was, then why would Casey wrap her head in duct tape and then throw her away in trash bags? Then I can't imagine her intentionally murdering her either. It is just too disturbing.:crying:

[Bird]

I had heard this too, can't remember which show and which TH or "guest" but that there were 2 different color of bags. Wonder what DID happen to the gray bag?

My theory about the disparity between a "black" and a "gray" bag is that it WAS a black trash bag that had gotten coated with dust and dirt. I've seen lots of black trashbags that looked more gray than black after getting dirty outside.

[beetlebrow]

Thanks. I zoomed in but still didn't see them.

Dang....I'm still searching for the pic of Caylee with these on...I know I saw it

n/t go to bottom left corner......then go northest diagonally about an inch to an inch and a half ......you can see the frames

[happygert]

I couldn't admit this to anyone but you guys here on the board, because no one else would understand it, but ever since they identified Caylee's body last week, I can't sleep. When I go to bed at night, no matter how tired I am, every time I start to fall asleep the image of that bag with Caylee's little body in it being tossed out like trash comes into my half-asleep mind and wakes me up like that. My husband thinks I'm just having midlife insomnia, and I can't bring myself to tell him that the problem is I keep seeing Caylee being thrown away as if she wasn't even human. The other thing that keeps me awake is her little voice saying, "Papa, you tired, Papa?" How many 2 year olds would have the compassion to notice that their great grandpa was tired, much less to care?

There's no one in my RL who could ever understand how I feel about this.

I think Caylee' has touched so many of us in this way. I cry everytime I see that video. My grandson just started saying Papa..he whispers it he's 22 months old and when he says that i remember Caylee's video.
Its such a sad sad thing. anyone would have took her and love her to pieces

[MerriMent]

Example:
There was an accident the other day, a drunk driver hit a pedestrian.

It's a term HUMAN BEINGS use loosely. We call it an accident then elaborate. Was it deliberate that this drunk ran someone down, no. Accident waiting to happen. See there I go again with the "a" word.

OH never mind. :)

Why the need to use the term so loosely? Doesn't the victim deserve a little more consideration? The alcohol was deliberately consumed, wasn't it? Or did someone force him/her to drink and drive? That was no accident.

[enigma]

Sheesh!! I just made a HUGE mistake! I was on the links thread reading the last post about Kiomarie and posted a reply thinking I was on this thread... YIKES!! I deleted it of course.

This is what I was saying:

You know, in her statement to LE, Kiomarie said that when she and Casey were school friends she was not allowed in Casey's house if Cindy was there. No problem if Goeorge was at home, she could go in. She said she didn't think she liked Hispanic people. She said that Cindy was really strict, she wanted Casey to be the perfect all-American girl... she pushed her to do things and be in a certain way.

When asked about Zenaida, she said the only Gonzales she knew was a lady by that name (not Zenaida, but surname Gonzales) who lived in Hopespring Dve, but that she didn't babysit, as she had her own children to look after.

Putting two and two together, I wonder if the Zenaida Gonzales story wasn't concocted for Cindy's benefit (something she would be likely believe), taking the name of the Gonzales Hispanic lady in her street in the context of her mother Cindy not liking Hispanics... and presenting her with a Hispanic kidnapper whose name happened to be the same as their neighbour's, as it was probably the first one that came to mind...

cindy certainly comes across from both Kiomarie and also Jesse in today's interview as being domineering, controlling and strict - she's also the one who told Casey that she was not putting up the baby for adoption (again, according to Kiomarie's story).

Also, this makes sense in relation to Casey's comment in the jailhouse transcript where Casey says "Mother knows" (words to that effect) in relation to where to look for Caylee. Maybe that was her big clue and also a dig at Cindy...

Just speculating and JMHO, though...

[Amy]

If you go back out to the Caylee Anthony forum, the sticky you want to read is #2 in line. It is dated today, 12/22.

Thanks all who have directed me to this. I didn't refresh my page. :punch:

[need2no]

I really would't be so quick to judge the Anthonys on this. Funerals are very expensive today. I heard Caylee had a trust fund put back. Even so,that might not be enough to pay for her funeral. It's very sad,but it is reality of the way things are today.

When my aunt died of cancer a few years ago,the cheapest funeral available was almost ten thousands dollars. Our family all chipped in and paid the costs because she had no life insurance.

Maybe the Anthonys really just don't have enough money to pay for the funeral, and that is why they are turning to the public, specifically the people who prayed for and love Caylee to help out.


I just keep remembering Cindy saying at the bond hearing that if she couldn't come up with the bail money herself (from her assets), she would go to family or other sources for the $, but she WOULD get the money to bail casey out of jail.
Yet now they have to ask the public for more donations in order to bury Caylee.

They have a pro bono attorney, have/had a pro bono PI, a pro bono spokesperson, LE providing loads of security at their home, they could afford to drive aimlessly around Orlando with the missing person trailer while stating Caylee was spotted in Tx, PR, NC, NY, etc......


When a reporter asked Conroy (at the memorial site) if the A's were going to donate the Help Find Caylee funds to needy children...he replied they were thinking about giving the money to help find other missing children but hadn't made up their minds just yet. Seems to me they need to use this money to give Caylee a proper burial if they can't otherwise afford to pay for it.

JMHO

[OneUp]

It wouldn't matter what the funeral arrangements turn out to be, there will be someone to criticise it one way or the other. Either it was too cheap or too fancy. The music wasn't what someone else thought it should be. She wore a yellow dress instead of black... etc. They can't win approval from everyone, no matter what they do.Well, who can ever win the approval of all? This ISN"T a popularity contest, and I frankly can't see why they would care WHAT the public thought.
I think that if their actions came across as hearfelt...and had they no history of being "difficult" ( I'm TRYING to be kind...)...I think most people would cut them alot more slack. Should they HAVE to do what we/some expect of them to be given consideration and leeway? I don't think so, but I don't think they have a right to expect/exact/demand approval and support either. It's a two way street that begins with truth and respect IMO.
...and JMO.
ETA: I forgot to addess what I began to....I doubt that any sane person would give a rip what ANYONE thought of them when they were facing the murder of a beloved child. I never cared less what others thought than at that time.
JMO.

[Jester]

This is one of the reasons I waffle back and forth. Knowing what we know now those clues that she'd been dropping. I've got a hard time believing these were innocent coincidences of symantex. That code nonsense. Extremely unsettling.

I haven't looked at the initial court hearing since it was first publicized, but I seem to remember Cindy on the stand claiming that Lee and Casey had some sort of private language or special relationship, and that he was in a position to get the truth from Casey. If that is true, and there has been some odd code words used between them, then I think the entire family has known for a long time what really happened.

Is there a place to read about the code theories?

[happygert]

I don't enjoy sharing this information so please take it with genuine first hand insight. When my daughter died and I found her lifeless body. She was two years old btw. I was frozen with terror, in fact if there is a word stronger that would be more accurate. I willed myself to react and I grabbed her although every bit of fear inside of me was fighting my heart. I did grab her and i screamed, "Oh dear God, NO!" and then I ran, I attempted CPR as my other 5 children watched in ultimate horror. I was so in shock I couldnt cry, I was like completely hollow and empty and when the medics finally arrived and took over I still didnt break down. It wasnt until at the hospital an hour later that it finally was reality that she was indeed "gone". The days that followed were completely unbelievable. I kept saying, "this isnt real is it?". I couldnt wait to go to sleep because I really believed that i would wake up and find out I was right! It was not real! My gut instincts were to run away and then it wouldnt be real. You are just not capable of rational thought. When I finally convinced my husband we needed to leave, and we did for a couple weeks after the funeral I was finally able to have moments of pretending it wasnt real. As if I still was alive. Because really you feel dead when you know the truth. He forced me to go back home and then the real grieving finally bagan. it was then that I was finally able to accept the reality of the situation. It took me years to stop having sudden moments of intense fear where I would say to myself, "Oh my God! This really happened!!" So while I am NOT trying to make excuses for Casey, I can say that i do believe the reason she acted the way she did and did it so easily was because possibly this was the only way she could go on. By convincing herself it never happened, and believe me that is very easy to do. I would have done it myself had my family not forced me to accept reality. Thank God they did, for everyone involveds sake. Now I cant explain how she rationalized everything after the police became involved and she was arrested. I do not understand that at all whatsoever, but her initial actions yes I do.

:rose: sorry for your lose

[NoNamesLeft]

[QUOTE=Bird;12573136] The other thing that keeps me awake is her little voice saying, "Papa, you tired, Papa?" How many 2 year olds would have the compassion to notice that their great grandpa was tired, much less to care?

QUOTE]

That "Papa, you tired, Papa?" goes through my head hundreds of times a day too. You're not the only one. That poor little thing, just breaks my heart!

[OneUp]

[QUOTE=Bratlings;12573193]I don't enjoy sharing this information so please take it with genuine first hand insight.
>Snipped, as we are requested<QUOTE]

{{{HUGS}}} Bratlings...I understand the loss of a child, I hope you have found some peace with your tragic loss.
I think it IS important that people who have suffered such losses share here...it shows the differences and similarities of our responses to these crisises, and (hopefully) helps people on the outside looking in to better understand those feelings.
i always hope people also take away a sense of how fragile and precious our ties to our loved ones are...that they may better appreciate and treasure the times they have.
JMO.
Again, TY to all who share their painful experiences with everyone. I know it is hard to bring these things out and talk about them.

[Jester]

I really would't be so quick to judge the Anthonys on this. Funerals are very expensive today. I heard Caylee had a trust fund put back. Even so,that might not be enough to pay for her funeral. It's very sad,but it is reality of the way things are today.

When my aunt died of cancer a few years ago,the cheapest funeral available was almost ten thousands dollars. Our family all chipped in and paid the costs because she had no life insurance.

Maybe the Anthonys really just don't have enough money to pay for the funeral, and that is why they are turning to the public, specifically the people who prayed for and love Caylee to help out.

Many people are faced with unexpected funeral costs, yet we don't see everyone asking for donations. Obviously people manage somehow. Maybe the Anthony's could sell Casey's car. Cindy was taking time off work until Caylee was found, so maybe she and George can return to work. I see no reason why the emotional heartstrings of the public need to be jerked and milked any more. Caylee has been found, so isn't it time for the Anthony's to resume whatever lives they had, support Casey as they see fit, and take responsibility for their family expenses.

[Bird]

I don't enjoy sharing this information so please take it with genuine first hand insight. When my daughter died and I found her lifeless body. She was two years old btw. I was frozen with terror, in fact if there is a word stronger that would be more accurate. I willed myself to react and I grabbed her although every bit of fear inside of me was fighting my heart. I did grab her and i screamed, "Oh dear God, NO!" and then I ran, I attempted CPR as my other 5 children watched in ultimate horror. I was so in shock I couldnt cry, I was like completely hollow and empty and when the medics finally arrived and took over I still didnt break down. It wasnt until at the hospital an hour later that it finally was reality that she was indeed "gone". The days that followed were completely unbelievable. I kept saying, "this isnt real is it?". I couldnt wait to go to sleep because I really believed that i would wake up and find out I was right! It was not real! My gut instincts were to run away and then it wouldnt be real. You are just not capable of rational thought. When I finally convinced my husband we needed to leave, and we did for a couple weeks after the funeral I was finally able to have moments of pretending it wasnt real. As if I still was alive. Because really you feel dead when you know the truth. He forced me to go back home and then the real grieving finally bagan. it was then that I was finally able to accept the reality of the situation. It took me years to stop having sudden moments of intense fear where I would say to myself, "Oh my God! This really happened!!" So while I am NOT trying to make excuses for Casey, I can say that i do believe the reason she acted the way she did and did it so easily was because possibly this was the only way she could go on. By convincing herself it never happened, and believe me that is very easy to do. I would have done it myself had my family not forced me to accept reality. Thank God they did, for everyone involveds sake. Now I cant explain how she rationalized everything after the police became involved and she was arrested. I do not understand that at all whatsoever, but her initial actions yes I do.

What a tragic and painful thing, Bratlings. That it made you so humane, rather than turning you bitter, says a lot about you as a person. I do know what you mean about the initial response of disbelief or suspension of reality. My baby son died in the hospital the day he was born, and for months afterwards I kept thinking I still felt him moving inside me. It's easy to just erase some unthinkable loss in order to go on living.

In Casey Anthony's case, just from listening to her patterns of speech and watching how she dominates and manipulates her family, I think she is probably a sociopath, utterly lacking in real concern for anyone but herself, and completely disconnected from the truth, or from any sense of responsibility for that truth. However Caylee died, it seems to me Casey is responsible for it--and losing her daughter didn't make Casey more human, but (it seems to me) even less human. JMO, of course.

[MoonFlwr]

:rose: :rose: Bratlings.

[happygert]

Accident: The gate leading to the pool area was accidentally left open, Mom had to use the bathroom, and in that time, a toddler wanders outside, through the gate, climbs the ladder and falls into the pool. By the time Mom realizes baby isn't in the room, and goes outside, its too late, the toddler has drowned.

Panic.. followed by a "flurry" of calls to her parents, each call.. unanswered. Panic.. fear.. poor judgment. The toddler is hidden in the woods, lies are told. The toddlers death is still an accident, perhaps a negligent accident, but it is distinguishable from pre meditated intentional murder.

How did a 2 year old move the ladder to the pool?

[MerriMent]

I don't enjoy sharing this information so please take it with genuine first hand insight. When my daughter died and I found her lifeless body. She was two years old btw. I was frozen with terror, in fact if there is a word stronger that would be more accurate. I willed myself to react and I grabbed her although every bit of fear inside of me was fighting my heart. I did grab her and i screamed, "Oh dear God, NO!" and then I ran, I attempted CPR as my other 5 children watched in ultimate horror. I was so in shock I couldnt cry, I was like completely hollow and empty and when the medics finally arrived and took over I still didnt break down. It wasnt until at the hospital an hour later that it finally was reality that she was indeed "gone". The days that followed were completely unbelievable. I kept saying, "this isnt real is it?". I couldnt wait to go to sleep because I really believed that i would wake up and find out I was right! It was not real! My gut instincts were to run away and then it wouldnt be real. You are just not capable of rational thought. When I finally convinced my husband we needed to leave, and we did for a couple weeks after the funeral I was finally able to have moments of pretending it wasnt real. As if I still was alive. Because really you feel dead when you know the truth. He forced me to go back home and then the real grieving finally bagan. it was then that I was finally able to accept the reality of the situation. It took me years to stop having sudden moments of intense fear where I would say to myself, "Oh my God! This really happened!!" So while I am NOT trying to make excuses for Casey, I can say that i do believe the reason she acted the way she did and did it so easily was because possibly this was the only way she could go on. By convincing herself it never happened, and believe me that is very easy to do. I would have done it myself had my family not forced me to accept reality. Thank God they did, for everyone involveds sake. Now I cant explain how she rationalized everything after the police became involved and she was arrested. I do not understand that at all whatsoever, but her initial actions yes I do.

So sorry for your loss....:rose:

the difference I see is a dramatic one. You forced yourself to get help for your baby even when you wanted to deny it was happening. You didn't hide your child and claim somebody kidnapped her. Casey's continuing denial can't be rationalized because she's not rational.

[happygert]

So sorry for your loss....:rose:

the difference I see is a dramatic one. You forced yourself to get help for your baby even when you wanted to deny it was happening. You didn't hide your child and claim somebody kidnapped her. Casey's continuing denial can't be rationalized because she's not rational.

ITA MerriMent

[Jester]

Sheesh!! I just made a HUGE mistake! I was on the links thread reading the last post about Kiomarie and posted a reply thinking I was on this thread... YIKES!! I deleted it of course.

This is what I was saying:

You know, in her statement to LE, Kiomarie said that when she and Casey were school friends she was not allowed in Casey's house if Cindy was there. No problem if Goeorge was at home, she could go in. She said she didn't think she liked Hispanic people. She said that Cindy was really strict, she wanted Casey to be the perfect all-American girl... she pushed her to do things and be in a certain way.

When asked about Zenaida, she said the only Gonzales she knew was a lady by that name (not Zenaida, but surname Gonzales) who lived in Hopespring Dve, but that she didn't babysit, as she had her own children to look after.

Putting two and two together, I wonder if the Zenaida Gonzales story wasn't concocted for Cindy's benefit (something she would be likely believe), taking the name of the Gonzales Hispanic lady in her street in the context of her mother Cindy not liking Hispanics... and presenting her with a Hispanic kidnapper whose name happened to be the same as their neighbour's, as it was probably the first one that came to mind...

cindy certainly comes across from both Kiomarie and also Jesse in today's interview as being domineering, controlling and strict - she's also the one who told Casey that she was not putting up the baby for adoption (again, according to Kiomarie's story).

Also, this makes sense in relation to Casey's comment in the jailhouse transcript where Casey says "Mother knows" (words to that effect) in relation to where to look for Caylee. Maybe that was her big clue and also a dig at Cindy...

Just speculating and JMHO, though...

Did Cindy tell Casey to bury her hamster in the pet cemetery? Did Cindy coin the term?

[MerriMent]

Accident: The gate leading to the pool area was accidentally left open, Mom had to use the bathroom, and in that time, a toddler wanders outside, through the gate, climbs the ladder and falls into the pool. By the time Mom realizes baby isn't in the room, and goes outside, its too late, the toddler has drowned.

Panic.. followed by a "flurry" of calls to her parents, each call.. unanswered. Panic.. fear.. poor judgment. The toddler is hidden in the woods, lies are told. The toddlers death is still an accident, perhaps a negligent accident, but it is distinguishable from pre meditated intentional murder.

Negligence. Why was the toddler outside unsupervised? Similar cases have been prosecuted. It takes two seconds to lock a door so a child doesn't "wander" outside.

[Amy]

Not necessarily..
ppl have accidently run over ppl andbecause they were drinking, they hid the facts.

Remember, this person hid her pregnancy and mom felt the need to kind of take charge because obviously she had not made the right choice.
There are alot of ppl that hide accidents and mistakes due to the fear of being judged or diappointing to someone. Granted, most of the time those ppl are younger children, but I think Casey is missing some sort of level of maturity anyway..all is jmo

I believe she said as much to the initial investigators, talking about how her mom would react to Caylee being abducted, and Caylee not being able to stop it. One of the detectives questioned if she was more afraid of her mom's reaction than she was afraid of not seeing Caylee again. Now, I don't know if she was worried about her mom being MAD, or her mom being DISAPPOINTED.

[enigma]

I don't enjoy sharing this information so please take it with genuine first hand insight. When my daughter died and I found her lifeless body. She was two years old btw. I was frozen with terror, in fact if there is a word stronger that would be more accurate. I willed myself to react and I grabbed her although every bit of fear inside of me was fighting my heart. I did grab her and i screamed, "Oh dear God, NO!" and then I ran, I attempted CPR as my other 5 children watched in ultimate horror. I was so in shock I couldnt cry, I was like completely hollow and empty and when the medics finally arrived and took over I still didnt break down. It wasnt until at the hospital an hour later that it finally was reality that she was indeed "gone". The days that followed were completely unbelievable. I kept saying, "this isnt real is it?". I couldnt wait to go to sleep because I really believed that i would wake up and find out I was right! It was not real! My gut instincts were to run away and then it wouldnt be real. You are just not capable of rational thought. When I finally convinced my husband we needed to leave, and we did for a couple weeks after the funeral I was finally able to have moments of pretending it wasnt real. As if I still was alive. Because really you feel dead when you know the truth. He forced me to go back home and then the real grieving finally bagan. it was then that I was finally able to accept the reality of the situation. It took me years to stop having sudden moments of intense fear where I would say to myself, "Oh my God! This really happened!!" So while I am NOT trying to make excuses for Casey, I can say that i do believe the reason she acted the way she did and did it so easily was because possibly this was the only way she could go on. By convincing herself it never happened, and believe me that is very easy to do. I would have done it myself had my family not forced me to accept reality. Thank God they did, for everyone involveds sake. Now I cant explain how she rationalized everything after the police became involved and she was arrested. I do not understand that at all whatsoever, but her initial actions yes I do.

I'm truly sorry about what you had to go through. :rose:

I can understand and really empathize with your reaction and think it's a normal reaction for people who are faced with such harsh and horrible realities. But I think that where any similarity between normal reaction and Casey's reaction stops.

Casey is a whole different matter, IMO. We already know that she was immature, that her priorities had changed, that her boyfriend and her social life was becoming increasingly important to her, and there is a strong indication that she associated Caylee with a lot of her troubles and restrictions. She may have initially reacted the way you suggest, if it were an accident, but what happened afterwards denies it, IMO.

You desperately tried to revive your daughter, casey desperately tried to hide her body... so that no-one would find her, and everyone would blame someone else for her death. Anyone but Casey. And her mother took up the story.

JMHO

[Jester]

I just keep remembering Cindy saying at the bond hearing that if she couldn't come up with the bail money herself (from her assets), she would go to family or other sources for the $, but she WOULD get the money to bail casey out of jail.
Yet now they have to ask the public for more donations in order to bury Caylee.

They have a pro bono attorney, have/had a pro bono PI, a pro bono spokesperson, LE providing loads of security at their home, they could afford to drive aimlessly around Orlando with the missing person trailer while stating Caylee was spotted in Tx, PR, NC, NY, etc......


When a reporter asked Conroy (at the memorial site) if the A's were going to donate the Help Find Caylee funds to needy children...he replied they were thinking about giving the money to help find other missing children but hadn't made up their minds just yet. Seems to me they need to use this money to give Caylee a proper burial if they can't otherwise afford to pay for it.

JMHO

Is there any public information about the fund? If the fund specifically states that the funds are intended to help find Caylee, then I'm not sure they can be used for other purposes. I would prefer to see all remaining funds donated to any one of the organizations that have supported the Anthony's during the last 6 months, specifically those focused on finding missing children.

[Jester]

Accident: The gate leading to the pool area was accidentally left open, Mom had to use the bathroom, and in that time, a toddler wanders outside, through the gate, climbs the ladder and falls into the pool. By the time Mom realizes baby isn't in the room, and goes outside, its too late, the toddler has drowned.

Panic.. followed by a "flurry" of calls to her parents, each call.. unanswered. Panic.. fear.. poor judgment. The toddler is hidden in the woods, lies are told. The toddlers death is still an accident, perhaps a negligent accident, but it is distinguishable from pre meditated intentional murder.

Where does the duct tape come into the picture?

[Nellie]

I really would't be so quick to judge the Anthonys on this. Funerals are very expensive today. I heard Caylee had a trust fund put back. Even so,that might not be enough to pay for her funeral. It's very sad,but it is reality of the way things are today.

When my aunt died of cancer a few years ago,the cheapest funeral available was almost ten thousands dollars. Our family all chipped in and paid the costs because she had no life insurance.

Maybe the Anthonys really just don't have enough money to pay for the funeral, and that is why they are turning to the public, specifically the people who prayed for and love Caylee to help out.

I'll be quick to judge this action. I think it's "tasteless" after donating the toys from the Memorial. Yes, funerals are expensive.....people who can't afford them have to pay for them every day. They don't put their hands out for the public to pay for them. And I remember Cindy referring to the public as "maggots" at one time. She also told them to get off their a$$es and go look for Caylee. They have brought these judgements upon themselves.

I also know the funeral homes will work with a person when they need help. I know this from my own father. We're still paying on his funeral. So, the Anthony's could give Caylee a funeral and make payments on it like others have to do. They tear up Memorials but then turn around and ask for donations. Seems the only kind of donations they want are $$$$$$ donations!

[Amy]

Oh there was certainly hair! I didn't mean to imply that there wasn't, and I have no idea the amount, of course, I just don't think it's in any shape for anyone to be brushing, unfortunately.

Like you mentioned in another post--the hair would certainly degenerate also, no matter how much there was.

[aubrey04]

Cindy could have called herself 'mom' in front of casey by accident (referring to jesse's statement on ng).
I have done it trying to take care of my children's kids...that doesn't mean you are taking over. It could mean you are tired and pooped and beat and losing it...



I highly doubt it.

jmo

Why would Cindy accidently call herself Caylee's mom in front of Casey? That makes no sense.

[Jester]

In tv interviews too Cindy has said how close Lee & Casey are and that he could get the truth from her. I didn't believe that and I think Cindy doesn't believe it, either.

The family started using the seeming-code-speak only after they learned their jailhouse talks were taped. They got angry that they were played in the media. That's not the fault of tv viewers. One woman from the sheriff's office said she couldn't believe how many people make that mistake & claim they didn't know their visits were recorded; even though it's posted within plain sight and right above where they visit with their incarcerated friends & family.

Thanks. That puts things in perspective. Cindy lays the foundation during the court proceedings ... pretending that Lee has a special connection with Casey, so Casey should not rot in jail. When Casey starts ranting about how it's such a waste to talk to her family, since all they care about is Caylee, the family needs to come up with a "story" to make it seem a little more caring, gentle, and genuine. She not heartless, she's speaking code. Makes perfect sense coming from the Anthonys.

[krystal_klear]

..Just got home from holiday shopping & I'm watching my taped NG & Greta shows. Jesse Grund was on & he's speaking of his perspective on how Casey had changed in the course of their relationship. He stated that Casey broke up with him cuz she felt that he loved Caylee more than he loved her.
As a mother, I would be thrilled if my new fiance were to love my child, irregardless of the fact that the DNA test showed that he was not the father, as in their case.
However, I am the mother of a "disturbed "grown daughter, who at the age of 22 gave birth to my wonderful grandson. She has been on a downward mental spiral for the last 10 years. Now, I have custody of my grandson, due to her inability to provide safe care for him. Her similarities to Casey is frightening to me. Like Casey, everything is about only her. No one can make any sense out of what she says or does when she turns into the "other" personality.
But most of all, since Caylee has met her demise, I cry so hard, when I think how loved she is/was and of my grandson possibly having met an unknown fate at the hands of his mother. I thank the good Lord that I have custody of him.
Listening to Jesse Grund tonite breaks my heart too. It sounds like the girl that he thought he knew was a complete stranger, just like my own daughter has become to me.
Sorry this is so long, but it is just my take on this that I needed to "vent".

[Jester]

Like you mentioned in another post--the hair would certainly degenerate also, no matter how much there was.

Not by much. Hair is still present, although with less texture and color, decades later.

[enigma]

Did Cindy tell Casey to bury her hamster in the pet cemetery? Did Cindy coin the term?

I don't know. If she didn't, does that mean she doesn't know where Casey buried her hampster, or where Casey used to hang out with her school friends?

In any case, it was Casey who said that her mother knows, not I. I'm just repeating it. :shrug:

JMHO

[PROPROS]

:rose: sorry for your loseMe too:rose:

[happygert]

I wasn't there, and it was an example. However I do remember something was said early on about the pool ladder, and questions between cindy and george about the ladder and pool area.

Well im sure a 2 year old didnt move the ladder to the pool. So how do you suppose it got there? George didnt put it there Cindy didnt put it there so who did? Leaves one person..Casey....Oh wait I know who put it there Zanni the Nanny. She had a key according to Casey.

[MerriMent]

Thank you everyone for the kind words.

But you have to consider that I am a very strong person, I fear only God. I knew my daughters death was not my fault. I did not have intense fear that my husband, children, or the police would blame me or condemn me for it. I dont know how I would have reacted had I been worried about answering to someone for the biggest mistake a person can ever make.

If a tragedy truly is an accident, being worried about being blamed for it would be a low to non-existent priority wouldn't it? It never entered your mind, did it? There is nothing accidental about Cassidy dumping her daughter's body and then dancing and drinking and having a good ol time.

[aubrey04]

Why are you so concerned about whether people approve of the Anthonys? The Anthonys certainly aren't nearly as concerned as you about public perception.

You can't control what people think of this family, or what people think in general. You're turning yourself inside out with the effort, but it's pointless, imo.

ITA.

There has been a power struggle on this board for a long time. Nobody on here is going to change anyone else's opinion on the case or the Anthony's. If you are sympathetic towards them and like them.. fine, that is your right. If you are disgusted by them and their behavior..again - it's your right.

Fighting over opinions on other peoples behavior is futile. The power struggle on here is exhausting sometimes.

Personally, I do feel sorry for the pain the Anthony's are going through right now. It must be devastating.. But it does NOT excuse their actions during the past few months, especially Cindy's.

jmo

[Jester]

I don't know. If she didn't, does that mean she doesn't know where Casey buried her hampster, or where Casey used to hang out with her school friends?

In any case, it was Casey who said that her mother knows, not I. I'm just repeating it. :shrug:

JMHO

Someone famous (don't know who) said that every lie is based on a bit of truth. Casey told nothing but lies, but her mother would have been the person to separate the bit of truth from the huge lies.

Casey said Caylee was close, and Cindy seemed to accept that as making sense. She didn't ask what the heck that meant, and how could she know that Caylee was close, but not be able to find her. Cindy and Casey both lie continuously, in my opinion, and it's reasonable to assume that Casey learned from Cindy. Who better to truly know the truth than the mentor?

I think Cindy does know where Casey buried her dead pets, and I do think that Casey expected Cindy and Lee to know where Casey would bury her dead child - once they became sensible enough to understand that Caylee had been murdered.

[PROPROS]

I wasn't there, and it was an example. However I do remember something was said early on about the pool ladder, and questions between cindy and george about the ladder and pool area.That was discussed by C& G. However, if a scenario such as this happened....how would you explain all the partying, shopping, sleeping with Tony ect...If, she accidently killed Caylee,she sure didn't seem to be too sorry about her accident.mo

[need2no]

Is there any public information about the fund? If the fund specifically states that the funds are intended to help find Caylee, then I'm not sure they can be used for other purposes. I would prefer to see all remaining funds donated to any one of the organizations that have supported the Anthony's during the last 6 months, specifically those focused on finding missing children.

I recall a few months ago when the fund was closed by the law firm handling it at the time, supposedly due to harrassing emails about the fund, and they stated they were going to find another financial institution to handle the funds. I also remember Nejame saying he was working on breaking everything down and would post it publicly, which he did. IIRC there was around 2K in the fund at the time. Maybe someone else here has better recall than I do and can direct you to it.

I would not want to see this money go to Kidfinders. I think the people who donated it would not have a problem with the money going toward Caylee's funeral, if necessary.

Still don't understand how Cindy can say they would scrap up the money to get casey out of jail....but can't scrap up the money to pay for Caylee's funeral.

[Jester]

I think Lenny has hamsters on the brain. If she had a hamster and it died, why not bury it in the yard? I don't think it happened the way Lenny says. We bury our pets in our own yards, not someone elses property.

Cindy won't even allow memorial flowers and stuffed animals near her yard. Do you really think she would allow a dead animal to be buried in her yard? Impossible! She would have told Casey to get rid of it in the woods near the school or toss it in the trash.

[Katprint]

Wouldn't her early refusal to consider/enter into a deal based on accidental death work against her? I thought that might enter into the trial were her defense to try and push scenarios of accidnet...but I could be wrong about that, thus I'm asking...
anyone?
Where is katprint when we need her input? I find her VERY reliable, and a helpful source on legal issues.
* If this case is affecting your Holiday mood, I'd suggest either volunteering some time ( seeing how much your attentions mean to others always helps), or just "faking it" until you "make it"...that works pretty well if you have little ones counting on you to make the season bright. Sorry for the somewhat O/t...I guess not totally, as it is about how caylee's case has affected us. But sorry if it bothers some.
I was banned for two days for commenting on Baez' claim that Casey now spends most of her time in her cell praying, by suggesting that God should strike the newly pious Casey with lightning bolts from heaven due to all the lies she "swore to God" were true. So I may get banned again for explaining why I was previously banned, and thus I cannot be relied upon to explain in the future.

As far as turning down prior deals, that will not be admissible evidence in court. As a matter of public policy, negotiations are NEVER admissible because otherwise no party would ever negotiate.

However, you are completely correct that it will count against her in a very real way. I found myself wondering if the "strategic" decisions being made were a matter of regional difference (for example, California has unique alimony and community property laws that affect how lawyers characterize the relative contribution of the spouses to the marital estate - you get more money by exaggerating the other spouse's contribution and abilities which is contrary to how other states assign assets to the spouse responsible for earning it) but then felt vindicated when the president of the Florida criminal bar association basically got on TV and said he didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing, either.

The best part of a missing person murder case is that the body is missing so you can argue that the missing person is still alive and thus not "murdered." Plea bargaining usually involves giving up the uncertainty of a guilty verdict in exchange for less punishment. In the Anthony case, Caylee's missing body and the various "sightings" created a certain amount of "uncertainty" of conviction that could have been traded for a lessening of charges. Now that bargaining chip is gone.

I don't see how the defense will introduce evidence of an "accidental" death short of having Casey take the stand. IMO having Casey testify on her own behalf will be a complete disaster for the defense. She has no credibility whatsoever. I hear Baez say that being a liar does not make her a murder, and all I can think is that he does not realize that in the minds of the jurors, not to mention the jury instructions about willfully false testimony, that is EXACTLY what will happen i.e. liar = murderer. The whole Anthony family and their supporters seem to feel that because Caylee is irretrievably gone and punishing Casey will not bring her back, there is no point in punishing Casey. I think a jury will hear the whole story and hate Casey, and punish her as much as they are able.

I spoke with one of the jurors in the Hans Reiser case, which also involved a missing body and extensive lying by the defendant. That juror told me that they almost immediately agreed that he had killed the victim and that they took very little time (less than a day) to agree on First Degree Murder. The juror told me that the only reason he didn't vote to sentence him to death was because that wasn't one of their options. (As is common in missing body murder cases, the prosecution did not seek the death penalty.) I don't really see Casey doing much better, and at this point, I expect her to do significantly worse since there is 1) a body and 2) evidence of premeditation vis-a-vis the computer searches. Every day I expect to hear that the prosecution has reconsidered its decision concerning seeking the death penalty, which it can do up until the jury is sworn so long as the defense is given adequate advance notice.

Another reason Casey is at a relative disadvantage to plea bargaining, is because her attorney and her family have been actively nasty towards law enforcement and the prosecutors. They have made it "personal" when it did not need to be. For example, Baez' comment at the hearing to compel production of the "tips/sightings" documents, to the effect that the DA should be investigated by the Florida state Attorney General for running a "scam" concerning preparation/copying costs, was inappropriate and needlessly insulting. What a contrast to Lenamon's pleasant, persuasive letter to the DA asking them to do the right thing by not seeking the death penalty against Casey, which was effective and successful! IMO it is very unfortunate for Casey that Lenamon is no longer on her team; he is the exactly the kind of low-key, stay-out-of-the-limelight-and-get-things-done kind of guy she needs.

Katprint
Whom you probably will not hear from if I get banned again for this post
Always only my own opinions

[enigma]

This is the quote I was looking for re "mom knows..."

When Lee questioned where to search for her missing daughter, she told him locally and said their mom, Cindy, would know.

"Check places locally Lee, in all honestly, places that are familiar to us, to our family," Casey said.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18204436/detail.html

It was a trange thing to say, IMO. Was it a clue, or what? So much confusing stuff in this case, sometimes you think you've put it all together and it makes sense, then boom! What sense?

JMHO...

[Jester]

If a tragedy truly is an accident, being worried about being blamed for it would be a low to non-existent priority wouldn't it? It never entered your mind, did it? There is nothing accidental about Cassidy dumping her daughter's body and then dancing and drinking and having a good ol time.

What an odd world it would be if people who experienced accidental death were loaded into trash bags and tossed in the woods. What kind of world did Casey have to think like that?

[Pruddennce]

Accident: The gate leading to the pool area was accidentally left open, Mom had to use the bathroom, and in that time, a toddler wanders outside, through the gate, climbs the ladder and falls into the pool. By the time Mom realizes baby isn't in the room, and goes outside, its too late, the toddler has drowned.

Panic.. followed by a "flurry" of calls to her parents, each call.. unanswered. Panic.. fear.. poor judgment. The toddler is hidden in the woods, lies are told. The toddlers death is still an accident, perhaps a negligent accident, but it is distinguishable from pre meditated intentional murder.

did I miss the confession?

IMO

best regards,
Pru

[MerriMent]

Accidents happen.. Parents aren't always perfect, at least outside this forum, they arent. Negligence isn't intentional murder. When my son was a toddler, I had gone outside to get the laundry, and came back in, and apparently failed to deadlock the door. A few minutes later, I heard a knock on the door, and was horrified when I opened the door and saw some lady holding my baby. She said that he had made his way out to the busy street and was attempting to cross it, and luckily she saw him and brought him to me, before he was run over. I suppose she could have called the police and they could have charged me with attempted murder, but they didn't and I was grateful. But had they charged me.. I would never have been truly guilty of attempted murder.

Parents don't have to be perfect but they do have the responsibility to supervise their kids at all times. I don't believe it's too much to require. If someone can't handle the task of child-proofing and locking doors, they shouldn't be parents. Negligent parents don't get to decide the charges or their guilt.

[PROPROS]

..Just got home from holiday shopping & I'm watching my taped NG & Greta shows. Jesse Grund was on & he's speaking of his perspective on how Casey had changed in the course of their relationship. He stated that Casey broke up with him cuz she felt that he loved Caylee more than he loved her.
As a mother, I would be thrilled if my new fiance were to love my child, irregardless of the fact that the DNA test showed that he was not the father, as in their case.
However, I am the mother of a "disturbed "grown daughter, who at the age of 22 gave birth to my wonderful grandson. She has been on a downward mental spiral for the last 10 years. Now, I have custody of my grandson, due to her inability to provide safe care for him. Her similarities to Casey is frightening to me. Like Casey, everything is about only her. No one can make any sense out of what she says or does when she turns into the "other" personality.
But most of all, since Caylee has met her demise, I cry so hard, when I think how loved she is/was and of my grandson possibly having met an unknown fate at the hands of his mother. I thank the good Lord that I have custody of him.
Listening to Jesse Grund tonite breaks my heart too. It sounds like the girl that he thought he knew was a complete stranger, just like my own daughter has become to me.
Sorry this is so long, but it is just my take on this that I needed to "vent".I for one appreciate your honesty in regards to your daughter. Your grandson is lucky to have you (and from your post), I am sure you feel blessed to have him.:rose:

[Jester]

I recall a few months ago when the fund was closed by the law firm handling it at the time, supposedly due to harrassing emails about the fund, and they stated they were going to find another financial institution to handle the funds. I also remember Nejame saying he was working on breaking everything down and would post it publicly, which he did. IIRC there was around 2K in the fund at the time. Maybe someone else here has better recall than I do and can direct you to it.

I would not want to see this money go to Kidfinders. I think the people who donated it would not have a problem with the money going toward Caylee's funeral, if necessary.

Still don't understand how Cindy can say they would scrap up the money to get casey out of jail....but can't scrap up the money to pay for Caylee's funeral.

Thanks for the information. Maybe Casey need to plan a funeral or memorial according to her means. Some people choose cremation because that is within their means. It's not like it really matters to Casey, since her idea of a proper burial is to be trashed.

[enigma]

Thanks for your post, Katprint.

IMO, the defense already started to build the foundations for an "accident" defense after Casey was charged with murder, when they released the statement in which they say that if Caylee is dead, it is most certainly an accident, probably an overdose of chloroform. I'm paraphrasing, but link should be easy to find, since it's relatively recent.

As you said, though, they couldn't prove that, could they? From JB's latest efforts, I think they might pursue the "kidnappers did it" defense once again. Those invisible kidnappers have a lot to answer for, just like Donnie...

JMHO

[Pruddennce]

is the "Anthonys are going to ask for donations for a burial' still a blog musing based on 'what someone overheard', or has there been an official press statement?

best regards,
Pru

[Amy]

I'd go for "rage" if she'd left the house and killed her the night of the 15th following the fight with her mom. But George said she left the next day saying hi ho hi ho its off to work I go yet she really doesn't leave the area. That's not my idea of rage; that's calm premeditation. And it had to happen that afternoon, because she wasn't seen anywhere that night and the cell phone activity lulls that day.

Others question whether or not George really saw Casey and Caylee the morning of the 16th. It's not like George has always stated the truth, there have been some contradictory statements.

[Jester]

This is the quote I was looking for re "mom knows..."

When Lee questioned where to search for her missing daughter, she told him locally and said their mom, Cindy, would know.

"Check places locally Lee, in all honestly, places that are familiar to us, to our family," Casey said.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18204436/detail.html

It was a strange thing to say, IMO. Was it a clue, or what? So much confusing stuff in this case, sometimes you think you've put it all together and it makes sense, then boom! What sense?

JMHO...

Thank you for that link. That is very interesting. I think you're right about Casey trying to tell her family where Caylee was. I think she wanted her found so she could play the grieving mom, get it over with, and hopefully the world would view her as the victim of a kidnapped child. She sounds so exasperated with her statements (through Padilla) that they hadn't even found the clothes yet, almost as though she was frustrated with everyone taking so long to find a body that was 60 feet off a main road.

I think Lee, and especially Cindy, didn't want to find the body, as they enjoyed the fantasy that Caylee was alive, and the attention it brought.

[Bird]

..Just got home from holiday shopping & I'm watching my taped NG & Greta shows. Jesse Grund was on & he's speaking of his perspective on how Casey had changed in the course of their relationship. He stated that Casey broke up with him cuz she felt that he loved Caylee more than he loved her.
As a mother, I would be thrilled if my new fiance were to love my child, irregardless of the fact that the DNA test showed that he was not the father, as in their case.
However, I am the mother of a "disturbed "grown daughter, who at the age of 22 gave birth to my wonderful grandson. She has been on a downward mental spiral for the last 10 years. Now, I have custody of my grandson, due to her inability to provide safe care for him. Her similarities to Casey is frightening to me. Like Casey, everything is about only her. No one can make any sense out of what she says or does when she turns into the "other" personality.
But most of all, since Caylee has met her demise, I cry so hard, when I think how loved she is/was and of my grandson possibly having met an unknown fate at the hands of his mother. I thank the good Lord that I have custody of him.
Listening to Jesse Grund tonite breaks my heart too. It sounds like the girl that he thought he knew was a complete stranger, just like my own daughter has become to me.
Sorry this is so long, but it is just my take on this that I needed to "vent".

How sad, Krystal. You've been through such a lot, and like Bratlings, your suffering made you more human rather than less, which says a lot about you. What an impossible situation it is to have a child who becomes a stranger--but what a great blessing for your grandson (and for you) that you were there to reach out to him before he could end up neglected or even, as you say, dead like little Caylee.

I worked for a number of years with mental health patients in an in-patient clinical setting, trying to help them sort through their issues by writing about them, and I've dealt with a number of people who were diagnosed with "antisocial personality disorder," or sociopathy. These people are lacking the basic human responses that most of us take for granted, and they can't relate at all to the needs of anyone else, even their own children. They have no conscience or sense of obligation to anyone else in their lives, and their own most superficial desires trump anyone else's most desperate and essential needs--a sociopath could, for example kill a child who was in the way of her fun, and feel completely justified. I'm not saying that's what happened because I don't know. But Casey immediately seemed like a sociopath to me when I read about the web of lies she'd told, about the thefts from people who trusted her, etc. And even more so when I began watching those jailhouse visits, the way she manipulates and controls her family, lies reflexively and has patterns of speech commonly associated with lying. It's unsettling to watch her. Harder yet to imagine Caylee's final hours, however death came to her. Accident or intentional, the responsibility inevitably lies with her mother. And our wish that Casey would just break down and tell the truth is not likely to happen, not at all. People with her behavior patterns rarely have a breakthrough--they just keep on with the masquerade because they believe they're smarter than anyone else.

[Jester]

Remember Lee asking if "it was the same as the last time" and she answered "yes"? Wonder if she killed the hamster and Lee was the one who took it to the burial site

If we assume Lee knew, then it explains why he backed off the investigation a few months ago. It was much better for Casey to face trial without a body. I wonder if Lee or Cindy had already found the body.

[enigma]

I think that is exactly what Lee meant.

So he knew all these months where the body was?


imo

Well, that's one possible explanation for that obscure question "was it like the last time"?...

When did he ask that? Because in what I think is the transcript of the first jailhouse visit, where Casey is obssessed with getting Tony's phone number, and is saying all sort of things... I thought Lee asked/told Casey to stop putting everyone through this and tell them where to look for Caylee...

Why would he ask, if he already knew? I don't think it was for the benefit of the tape, because I don't think they knew they were being recorded at that stage....

Anyone know when he asked the "was it like the last time" question? TIA

JMHO

[Duckaroo]

I don't think anyone assumes themselves perfect here..or to be out there, accidents do happen and can happen. But if this were an accident, expecting a mother to call for help instead of "disposing of her daughter" or not going about her daily life like she hadn't a care in the world..shopping, hanging out with her B/F, dancing the night away in her favorite clubs and flashing a big smile every time a camera flashes in her direction, all the while her baby is lying alone in a trash bag tossed away like common garbage, is hardly what I would call expecting someone to be the perfect..

[MerriMent]

Thats your right to believe that. I don't agree. Or at least I don't equate every accident as intentional murder. Thankfully our system of justice allows for varying degrees of culpability.

yes and our system of justice has not in any way framed the death of Caylee as an accident. The ME has ruled it a homicide. The DA has charged it a murder with aggravated child abuse. Casey claims the child was kidnapped. How anybody still equates any of that with "accident" is a mystery now that we know she is dead rather than at the mall.