Michelle Young - Dec. 22 thru Jan. 1

[Lindsey]

As we celebrate Christmas this week with our families and friends, let us remember the families and friends who loved Michelle and will always miss her beautiful smile and wonderful personality. I'm sure her presence would be the greatest gift of all if it were only possible.



Justice for Michelle and her loved ones is high on my Christmas wish list.

[enigma™]

I concur. Justice for Michelle and Rylan, and all who loved them.

Is there a GJ this week? I misplaced my schedule, again!

[Leanne Weich]

Great sentiment Lindsey and will be very near the top of my Christmas wish list. In fact if it weren't for the fact that I can't celebrate this year with my own grandkids because of not being allowed to fly, it would be my number one wish. I hope Cassidy gets to experience the joyfulness that all 3 year olds look so forward to. Do you people (as in Americans) have a lot of carrollers going from house to house and Carols by Candlelight at Churches and in parks? My grandkids love going to the nearest big park with their glow sticks and candles and singing all their favorite carols learned at Kindie.

I, too will be praying for some happy moments for Linda and Meredith as they reflect on Christmases past when Michelle was still an alive and vibrant person.

[annalyzer]

Cassidy must be five years old now?

[Kat4Eagles]

Cassidy must be five years old now?

C will be 5 in March...

Kat

[annalyzer]

Michelle and RYLAN...



Michelle and baby boy Rylan :rose:

[jerzeegirl]

ok so i had a revelation last night after reading the custody pdf for the second time,

the allegation of jason having another affair besides MM and having this said person staying at the house in the month prior to micheles death, could this woman have stayed with him in the house while michele was in NY? Maybe michele knew nothing because she wasnt there?

[Kat4Eagles]

ok so i had a revelation last night after reading the custody pdf for the second time,

the allegation of jason having another affair besides MM and having this said person staying at the house in the month prior to micheles death, could this woman have stayed with him in the house while michele was in NY? Maybe michele knew nothing because she wasnt there?


Hard to say, Jerzee...

I just find it difficult to believe with Michelle being pregnant that Jason would have done this, but who knows..

I am curious as to why he would take this woman to day care to pick up C though...(if he did)

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Michelle and baby boy Rylan :rose:

Thank you, Anna,
I should have included the baby.
:(

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

ok so i had a revelation last night after reading the custody pdf for the second time,

the allegation of jason having another affair besides MM and having this said person staying at the house in the month prior to micheles death, could this woman have stayed with him in the house while michele was in NY? Maybe michele knew nothing because she wasnt there?

I guess it is a possibility and, if so, I'd be most interested in the day care worker's or any other parents who were fetching kids as to the dynamic between JY and th mystery woman.

[Cardinal]

ok so i had a revelation last night after reading the custody pdf for the second time,

the allegation of jason having another affair besides MM and having this said person staying at the house in the month prior to micheles death, could this woman have stayed with him in the house while michele was in NY? Maybe michele knew nothing because she wasnt there?

Now that's an interesting possibility, jerzee. Good to see you, btw.

(you too, oneder :smile:)

If that's true, do you think Michelle would have found signs of other woman's occupancy upon her return? Or is it possible that Cassidy said something that clued her in?

[Cardinal]

Hard to say, Jerzee...

I just find it difficult to believe with Michelle being pregnant that Jason would have done this, but who knows..

I am curious as to why he would take this woman to day care to pick up C though...(if he did)

Kat

Why would Michelle being pregnant have anything to do with it, Kat? As for the daycare pickup, maybe he wanted other woman to bond with her?

[Kat4Eagles]

Why would Michelle being pregnant have anything to do with it, Kat? As for the daycare pickup, maybe he wanted other woman to bond with her?


Oh, so you are not glad to see me, !!
:crying:

J/K
Hey Card...

I have no idea, except maybe it was innocent...
I would hate to think Jason thought so little of Michelle knowing that she would later learn of this.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Oh, so you are not glad to see me, !!
:crying:

J/K
Hey Card...

I have no idea, except maybe it was innocent...
I would hate to think Jason thought so little of Michelle knowing that she would later learn of this.

Kat

Sorry, Kat. LOL Of course I'm glad to see you, too - it has just been a while since I saw jerzee or oneder. Hope you're having a lovely holiday season.

I understand your reluctance to see Jason in a bad light, but from I what I've read, not only was he spinning a fantasy future with MM, he had some other woman in his and Michelle's home. And if jerzee is right, and Michelle was in NY at the time, perhaps even in his and Michelle's bed.

I'm sorry, Kat - I'm willing to withhold judgment on murder, but if these allegations regarding the other woman, on top of (no pun intended) his affair with MM, are true, I don't understand how anyone can think that Jason had any regard at all for Michelle.

JMO

[annalyzer]

Why would Michelle being pregnant have anything to do with it, Kat? As for the daycare pickup, maybe he wanted other woman to bond with her?


Or she just happened to be with him when it was time to pick his child up. Was this supposed to have happened while Michelle was alive or later in Brevard?

[tiny paw-prints]

Oh, so you are not glad to see me, !!
:crying:

J/K
Hey Card...

I have no idea, except maybe it was innocent...
I would hate to think Jason thought so little of Michelle knowing that she would later learn of this.

Kat

I suspect that Jason thought so little of Michelle and baby boy Rylan that he killed them both and hence; he abandoned Cassidy without a mother and baby brother. Jason is a heartless creep! IMO.

[annalyzer]

I suspect that Jason thought so little of Michelle and baby boy Rylan that he killed them both and hence; he abandoned Cassidy without a mother and baby brother. Jason is a heartless creep! IMO.


I wonder if he'll fight this custody suit, fight to keep his daughter?

Someone remind me what date to look forward to finding out, please.

[Barbara2]

I wonder if he'll fight this custody suit, fight to keep his daughter?

Someone remind me what date to look forward to finding out, please.

I know it was February, I believe the 4th.

[annalyzer]

Also wanted to know, does Jason have to undergo a psych eval just because LF wants him to or does a judge have to order it? Or has a judge already ordered it based on LF's allegations in the suit?

[annalyzer]

I know it was February, I believe the 4th.


Thanks Barbara. Not too far off. That'll be here before we know it!

[jerry50]

I know it was February, I believe the 4th.


I think that that is the court date but I read somewhere that he has to respond to the suit within 30 days.

[enigma™]

I think that that is the court date but I read somewhere that he has to respond to the suit within 30 days.

It has been posted that he must respond, in writing, by 1/17/09. The court date is 2/4/09.

[kingbuff]

Don't want to make anyone mad, but doesn't this custody suit seem strange to you? From what I have read, Michelle did not want the Fishers raising her daughter. And now the Fishers want a judge to overrule a dead mother's judgment? Seems strange to me.

[Barbara2]

Don't want to make anyone mad, but doesn't this custody suit seem strange to you? From what I have read, Michelle did not want the Fishers raising her daughter. And now the Fishers want a judge to overrule a dead mother's judgment? Seems strange to me.

I've not read what Michelle wanted regarding her daughter. I have a strong feeling that she wanted to raise her daughter herself. From the pictures I have seen, she and her mother had a very close relationship and Cassidy was very close to Michelle's mother and sister. If you have a link to your claim, I would be interested in seeing it. TIA

[Jester]

Don't want to make anyone mad, but doesn't this custody suit seem strange to you? From what I have read, Michelle did not want the Fishers raising her daughter. And now the Fishers want a judge to overrule a dead mother's judgment? Seems strange to me.

I'm wondering why you think Michelle didn't want her mother and sister to raise Cassidy? Are you basing this on rumors of a will stating that, in the event both parents are deceased, Heather and her husband were chosen as guardians?

What that means to me, if it is true, is that Jason and Michelle wanted a related, married couple of roughly their own age, who planned a family, to raise their children.

Since Jason is alive, and is probably acting in ways such that Michelle would object, I'm not sure it's relevant to consider her choice in the event both parents were deceased.

[Jester]

I would imagine the judge will order them all to have one.

I would agree with that. A judge would most likely request a psychological, and home, assessment for all parties. She may also assign a lawyer to oversee this process, and to make a recommendation to the court.

[enigma™]

There is nothing strange about it. After Michelle's brutal murder by the slayer, Michelle's mother and sister decided Cassidy would be in better hands with them, rather than a court-proclaimed "slayer".

Buff, how would you proceed if this happened to someone in your family? Would you wait and hope that justice would be served? Would you find that justice is slow, and when time is running out, would you then proceed? I am curious. I believe that the Fisher's waited until they had no choice but to proceed in the manner they are proceeding. I cannot find fault with this, as I believe they have had legal counsel along the way that provided them with the specifics of how the legal system works, specifically in the state of NC. How would you have acted?

[jerry50]

Don't want to make anyone mad, but doesn't this custody suit seem strange to you? From what I have read, Michelle did not want the Fishers raising her daughter. And now the Fishers want a judge to overrule a dead mother's judgment? Seems strange to me.

You may be reading in the wrong places. There is no verifiable proof that Michelle did not want her family around her children. Linda had purchased a home nearby so that she could provide daycare when Michelle went back to work after the birth of Rylan.
Do you remember seeing the picture that was taken at the daycare of Meredith and Cassidy? That little girl was on the top of the world. Her smile was incredible and anyone could see how happy she was to be with her aunt.
What do you think the judge will think when he sees tha tJY did not care enough to respond to the WDS? It showed that JY did not mind being labeled a killer in a court of law which essentially makes him unemployable.
There will be statements and appearances from all of their friends who will testify to what Michelle wanted.

[Jester]

I believe, in this type of suit, Jason would have to request and pay for it.

Is it standard for the plaintiff to ask for costs, and is it standard for a judge to let people cover their own costs? If an independent lawyer is assigned for Cassidy, by the courts, would the costs be covered by the courts?

[Kat4Eagles]

You may be reading in the wrong places. There is no verifiable proof that Michelle did not want her family around her children. Linda had purchased a home nearby so that she could provide daycare when Michelle went back to work after the birth of Rylan.
Do you remember seeing the picture that was taken at the daycare of Meredith and Cassidy? That little girl was on the top of the world. Her smile was incredible and anyone could see how happy she was to be with her aunt.
What do you think the judge will think when he sees tha tJY did not care enough to respond to the WDS? It showed that JY did not mind being labeled a killer in a court of law which essentially makes him unemployable.
There will be statements and appearances from all of their friends who will testify to what Michelle wanted.

Wait a sec now, that is not exactly true.

L F had purchased that home for MF to live in, although she would probably reside there too someday.

But, we don't know when, and we never heard before this custody suit was filed, that she was coming to NC to live and to help Michelle with the new baby.

Good grief, no wonder Michelle was seeing a therapist.

With all that was going on, I don't know how she got through the day.

:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Don't want to make anyone mad, but doesn't this custody suit seem strange to you? From what I have read, Michelle did not want the Fishers raising her daughter. And now the Fishers want a judge to overrule a dead mother's judgment? Seems strange to me.


The only thing, strange to me would be if anyone knew of all these allegations and did nothing to protect C. in all that time.

So, either the allegations can not be proved, or no one was worried about C enough to counter them.

So, which one is it?
Kat

[Lindsey]

< snip >

Linda had purchased a home nearby so that she could provide daycare when Michelle went back to work after the birth of Rylan.

<snip >


Not exactly. Linda purchased a home nearby in January 2006 for Meredith to live in. Michelle wasn't even pregnant in Jan 2006.

I guess each state has their own laws, policies and procedures but in my state the custody complaint wouldn't have been filed in Wake County. It would have to be filed in the county where the defendant resides. Linda is a resident of NY, not NC, unless again the laws are different there. (You're not a resident unless it's your primary home. Just being a property owner doesn't qualify.)

I can see why the WDS was filed in Wake Co since that's where the murder took place but I'm surprised at the custody complaint being filed there.

All JMO

[Kat4Eagles]

Not exactly. Linda purchased a home nearby in January 2006 for Meredith to live in. Michelle wasn't even pregnant in Jan 2006.

I guess each state has their own laws, policies and procedures but in my state the custody complaint wouldn't have been filed in Wake County. It would have to be filed in the county where the defendant resides. Linda is a resident of NY, not NC, unless again the laws are different there. (You're not a resident unless it's your primary home. Just being a property owner doesn't qualify.)

I can see why the WDS was filed in Wake Co since that's where the murder took place but I'm surprised at the custody complaint being filed there.

All JMO


Hi Lin !!!

:seeya:

I just posted something similar, maybe L F could be planning on moving to NC now?

It would help the case, I guess.

I hate to think of what is in store for C if she is taken away.

Kat

[Jester]

Its not unheard of, but I think in this case, since Linda is requesting the psych eval, she may have to pay for it. As would Jason if he requested it.

Its a pretty normal request in a custody suit, but who pays for what is up to the judge.

Thanks. I did notice the request for costs at the end of the affidavit, and I'm familiar with that being standard, but I know that different places will decide that differently. Where I am, it's standard to pretty much ignore the request.

[Lindsey]

Hi Lin !!!

:seeya:

I just posted something similar, maybe L F could be planning on moving to NC now?

It would help the case, I guess.

I hate to think of what is in store for C if she is taken away.

Kat

Hey Kat

You were posting while I was still typing I guess. lol

I wonder if Linda will move to NC, if she wins custody, or if she'll sell that house and take Cassidy to NY.

All that yanking her around can't be good for her, IMO. I hope the decision will be based on what really is best for Cassidy and not just what the grownups want. And I'm talking about the grownups on both sides. My only concern is Cassidy's well-being and justice for Michelle and her son.

[jerry50]

Hi Lin !!!

:seeya:

I just posted something similar, maybe L F could be planning on moving to NC now?

It would help the case, I guess.

I hate to think of what is in store for C if she is taken away.

Kat

I think Cassidy's future is going to be disfunctional no matter what happens. She has not had a place to call "home" since the day she was taken from the only home she remembered where her Mother lay dead in puddles of her own blood. She has been shuttled between Heather's and Pat's with no permanent stability.
Her dad chose not to defend himself in a court of law and has been branded a wife killer by a judge. Who will employ him? He cannot give her a life of any normalcy.
And whether anyone wants to admit it or not, LE is putting together a murder 1 indictment which will more than likely put him in prison for the rest of his life.
It appears that while living with the Young's that no attempt has been made for Cassidy to carry on a relationship with her Mother's side of the family. That is not in the best interest of Cassidy no matter how you spin it. Are there any pictures up of Michelle in the Young's house? Does anyone sit with her and talk about how much her Mother loved her? She has suffered an immense loss that will follow her throughout the rest of her life.

[kingbuff]

Yes I agree. Too bad she had to be yanked as you put it from Heather's home and then to another , Pat Youngs.

A house is just a house. It's her dad that makes it home.

[caffeinated]

A house is just a house. It's her dad that makes it home.

This is true for most dads, Jason not included. My opinion is that Cassidy is way down on his list for protecting, I bet his list only consists of him. JMOO

[kingbuff]

Hey Kat

You were posting while I was still typing I guess. lol

I wonder if Linda will move to NC, if she wins custody, or if she'll sell that house and take Cassidy to NY.

All that yanking her around can't be good for her, IMO. I hope the decision will be based on what really is best for Cassidy and not just what the grownups want. And I'm talking about the grownups on both sides. My only concern is Cassidy's well-being and justice for Michelle and her son.

New York, probably. Even though Fisher owns the house, Meredith claims it. Meredith does not allow her mom to stay with her.

[kingbuff]

I guess it is a possibility and, if so, I'd be most interested in the day care worker's or any other parents who were fetching kids as to the dynamic between JY and th mystery woman.

"Mystery woman?" Just PM your buds. The Fishers have told them who it is.

[JHP]

How would you know that? Is that like saying Heather no longer allows Jason and Cassie to stay with her???

:ohmy: So this is the person who is supposed to have Cassidy in the Will? And they kicked her and her father out?
What is wrong with this family? And who is making sure Cassidy is safe?

[Kat4Eagles]

Did anyone else notice that the charges of the car or boating "accidents" were not included in the custody allegations..?

:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Hey Kat

You were posting while I was still typing I guess. lol

I wonder if Linda will move to NC, if she wins custody, or if she'll sell that house and take Cassidy to NY.

All that yanking her around can't be good for her, IMO. I hope the decision will be based on what really is best for Cassidy and not just what the grownups want. And I'm talking about the grownups on both sides. My only concern is Cassidy's well-being and justice for Michelle and her son.


I agree, which is another reason for the Fishers to have acted sooner, if this was their intention.

I imagine the day care keeps a close progress report on C, and, from her pics she looks fine, she is growing up so fast.

I don't have any idea how all this will play out.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

First of all, who is to say they didn't try to do something and their "counsel" told them it would be wise to wait? No one knows for sure. This could have been worked on for a year or more for all we know.

If people JII's are OK with Jason remaining silent at the advice of counsel, you have to afford LF and MF the same consideration in that they followed the advice of their lawyer(s). You can't pick and choose.


Yes, you can!!

There is a big difference in remaining silent and letting your grand child be raised by someone you think is a murderer and having that child be in possible danger.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

New York, probably. Even though Fisher owns the house, Meredith claims it. Meredith does not allow her mom to stay with her.

Interesting.

Kat

[annalyzer]

Hi Kat
Right now it is all allegations but if the story is true about Jason wetting himself and siting naked I would be interested in what kind of party it was. Who hosted this party and what was served besides alcohol? Sounds like a fair bit of ecstasy may have been floating around . Wonder if Jason took it or was it put in his drink? I guess we will find out when this hits the courts. Does anyone know who the host was or who took the photos of Jason?


Likely he drank way too much too fast. If he was taken to the bathroom he must have been really sick and drunk. He didn't know he had taken off his clothes or even where he was at when he sat on the sofa naked.

I also want to know whose house this was at, what kind of party it was, how much did Jason drink, did he stay all night and sleep it off, etc. Lots of questions. Another one, was it normal for Jason to go to parties without Michelle?

[annalyzer]

How would you know that? Is that like saying Heather no longer allows Jason and Cassie to stay with her???

Jason doesn't own Heather's house does he?

[annalyzer]

Yes I agree. Too bad she had to be yanked as you put it from Heather's home and then to another , Pat Youngs.

Yeah I bet that was really traumatizing. :unsure:

[Kat4Eagles]

Any adult at the age of 30 something who does not know how to safely drink, who doesnt know or tends to ignore limits has a BIG problem.IMO



But, I bet it was hilarious when it happened.
Or, maybe you just had to be there!!

:biggrin:
Kat

[Jester]

But, I bet it was hilarious when it happened.
Or, maybe you just had to be there!!

:biggrin:
Kat

Really. That's interesting that you find it hilarious when a 30 year old man gets slobbering drunk, has the sort of accident a 2 year old is familiar with, strips down to his birthday suit, re-joins the party, and doesn't even clean up his mess.

We must attend different parties, as I would find this rather distasteful, offensive, and justification to leave the scene.

[jerry50]

A house is just a house. It's her dad that makes it home.

Sorry, wishing does not make it so. Check with your local child pyschologist. Cassidy and Jason need their own place which the two of them can call home. It may not show up for years but this shuttling back and forth is affecting the way poor Cassidy will be dealing with events in her life years from now.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

A house is just a house. It's her dad that makes it home.

A house is just a house. It's the bars and guard towers that make it the Big House.

:tongue:

[alter ego]

Not exactly. Linda purchased a home nearby in January 2006 for Meredith to live in. Michelle wasn't even pregnant in Jan 2006.

I guess each state has their own laws, policies and procedures but in my state the custody complaint wouldn't have been filed in Wake County. It would have to be filed in the county where the defendant resides. Linda is a resident of NY, not NC, unless again the laws are different there. (You're not a resident unless it's your primary home. Just being a property owner doesn't qualify.)

I can see why the WDS was filed in Wake Co since that's where the murder took place but I'm surprised at the custody complaint being filed there.

All JMOI agree Lindsay and the statute says the custody venue is the county where the child currently lives:


f) Venue. – An action or proceeding in the courts of this State for custody and support of a minor child may be maintained in the county where the child resides or is physically present or in a county where a parent resides, except as hereinafter provided
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_50/gs_50-13.5.html

[alter ego]

Really. That's interesting that you find it hilarious when a 30 year old man gets slobbering drunk, has the sort of accident a 2 year old is familiar with, strips down to his birthday suit, re-joins the party, and doesn't even clean up his mess.

We must attend different parties, as I would find this rather distasteful, offensive, and justification to leave the scene.How many people left the scene when Jason allegedly came out of the bathroom with no clothes on and sat on the couch?

[Kat4Eagles]

Really. That's interesting that you find it hilarious when a 30 year old man gets slobbering drunk, has the sort of accident a 2 year old is familiar with, strips down to his birthday suit, re-joins the party, and doesn't even clean up his mess.

We must attend different parties, as I would find this rather distasteful, offensive, and justification to leave the scene.



I agree that it may be disgusting to some, but it is not illegal or sinister in the way that it is trying to be made to be.

Why not use "allegations" with more merit such as the car or boating "accidents" to prove their case for removal of child?

If the Judge has any sense of humor, he is going to be laughing at some of those charges.

It is somewhat strettttching to make the case against Jason, imo.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

How many people left the scene when Jason allegedly came out of the bathroom with no clothes on and sat on the couch?



~~<waiting for the video to surface on Craigslist!!

:biggrin:

Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I agree Lindsay and the statute says the custody venue is the county where the child currently lives:


f) Venue. – An action or proceeding in the courts of this State for custody and support of a minor child may be maintained in the county where the child resides or is physically present or in a county where a parent resides, except as hereinafter provided
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_50/gs_50-13.5.html

If he answers the law suit, do you think Jason will ask that the case be moved to Transylvania County? That's a lot of dirty laundry to hang out in your own back yard. I wonder if that is part of the plan. Maybe they would like Jason to get the case moved. Can you imagine how this little town will talk when all the things from the law suit, the WDS, and the SW are being discussed right here in Brevard?

[Jester]

How many people left the scene when Jason allegedly came out of the bathroom with no clothes on and sat on the couch?

How is this relevant? Are you also of the opinion that it would be hilarious for a grown man to become so intoxicated that he wets himself; a "guess you had to be there" moment to appreciate the humor?

Sorry, I'm of the opinion that rubbies like that end up in the gutter, and everyone avoids them.

[Jester]

I agree that it may be disgusting to some, but it is not illegal or sinister in the way that it is trying to be made to be.

Why not use "allegations" with more merit such as the car or boating "accidents" to prove their case for removal of child?

If the Judge has any sense of humor, he is going to be laughing at some of those charges.

It is somewhat strettttching to make the case against Jason, imo.

Kat

I see, so the judge will also think it's hilarious, if she has the proper sense of humor, that men get so drunk they become uncontrollable and wet themselves?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I see, so the judge will also think it's hilarious, if she has the proper sense of humor, that men get so drunk they become uncontrollable and wet themselves?

Exactly. If Jason loses custody it will not be because he is a slayer, exhibits poor parenting skills, is not a role model for a young female, etc. I will be because the judge does not have a sense of humor.

In Wake County elections do they ask the voters to select who they think will be the funnest judge?

[Kat4Eagles]

I see, so the judge will also think it's hilarious, if she has the proper sense of humor, that men get so drunk they become uncontrollable and wet themselves?


I re~read the charges again, and its going to be difficult to prove them, for instance the charge he was using C's pic to hook up with women online, that is just silly.

And, again, why not more serious charges such as the "accidents"?

Unless, they were just that=accidents!!

Kat

[Jester]

Exactly. If Jason loses custody it will not be because he is a slayer, exhibits poor parenting skills, is not a role model for a young female, etc. I will be because the judge does not have a sense of humor.

In Wake County elections do they ask the voters to select who they think will be the funnest judge?

Nicely put. That's a new one - wrongful conviction due to absence of "guess you had to be there" humor.

[Kat4Eagles]

Exactly. If Jason loses custody it will not be because he is a slayer, exhibits poor parenting skills, is not a role model for a young female, etc. I will be because the judge does not have a sense of humor.

In Wake County elections do they ask the voters to select who they think will be the funnest judge?


:)

I didnt say that.....:no:

I just think the Judge may have a hard time keeping a straight face when reading that.

If a child can not be taken away, because their parent has been labeled a slayer, or because the child may have been drugged or witnessed a murder, do you really think drunken party behavior will be the thing to do it???

Kat

[Jester]

I re~read the charges again, and its going to be difficult to prove them, for instance the charge he was using C's pic to hook up with women online, that is just silly.

And, again, why not more serious charges such as the "accidents"?

Unless, they were just that=accidents!!

Kat

What accidents, and how are they related to the murder?

[Jester]

:)

I didnt say that.....:no:

I just think the Judge may have a hard time keeping a straight face when reading that.

If a child can not be taken away, because their parent has been labeled a slayer, or because the child may have been drugged or witnessed a murder, do you really think drunken party behavior will be the thing to do it???

Kat

You continue to amaze me this morning. Will the judge have a hard time keeping a straight face, perhaps winking and smirking at the accused, when reading the contents of the affidavit?

Will Jason's 'Peter Pan' charm sway the judge towards inviting him to a party so she can enjoy the hilarity of his drunken moments? I bet she'd love to be the one to clean up the accidental urination of a grown man in her living room.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

I re~read the charges again, and its going to be difficult to prove them, for instance the charge he was using C's pic to hook up with women online, that is just silly.

And, again, why not more serious charges such as the "accidents"?

Unless, they were just that=accidents!!

Kat

Unless he defends himself more vigorously in this suit than he did in the last one, the charges will be easy to prove. They will be proven by default.

IMO, Jason's lawyers will attempt to give the Fishers a very liberal visitation agreement. At least once a month, all holidays, the summer break, etc. This will keep Jason from having to make the decision to take the stand (deposition, psych examination, etc.) or to give up custody all together.

I just don't see him putting himself before his child. It not his nature. If Linda Fisher holds firm, Jason will back away and let her have custody. Life in prison, or worse, is too big of a gamble. Jason may love CY, but he doesn't love her as much as he loves himself and his freedom.

[Kat4Eagles]

What accidents, and how are they related to the murder?


The car accident and the near drowning accident?
They are supposed to be previous murder attempts.
:wink:
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

You continue to amaze me this morning. Will the judge have a hard time keeping a straight face, perhaps winking and smirking at the accused, when reading the contents of the affidavit?

Will Jason's 'Peter Pan' charm sway the judge towards inviting him to a party so she can enjoy the hilarity of his drunken moments? I bet she'd love to be the one to clean up the accidental urination of a grown man in her living room.


The point is, that in itself, is not enough to remove a child..
Even with the other allegations, there is not enough.
That is why I brought up the "accidents".
IMO
Kat

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The car accident and the near drowning accident?
They are supposed to be previous murder attempts.
:wink:
Kat

He has already been declared the slayer. I think that base is covered.

It looks like the law suit says, not only is he a slayer but he also did A and B and C.

[Kat4Eagles]

Unless he defends himself more vigorously in this suit than he did in the last one, the charges will be easy to prove. They will be proven by default.

IMO, Jason's lawyers will attempt to give the Fishers a very liberal visitation agreement. At least once a month, all holidays, the summer break, etc. This will keep Jason from having to make the decision to take the stand (deposition, psych examination, etc.) or to give up custody all together.

I just don't see him putting himself before his child. It not his nature. If Linda Fisher holds firm, Jason will back away and let her have custody. Life in prison, or worse, is too big of a gamble. Jason may love CY, but he doesn't love her as much as he loves himself and his freedom.


You may be right, we will have to wait and see.

But, I hope the Judge questions the timing of such a suit, and will ask when they first knew of this info and why they waited so long.

I want C to be where she is safe.
There does not appear to be any danger where she has been, so why worry now?

Kat

[Jester]

The car accident and the near drowning accident?
They are supposed to be previous murder attempts.
:wink:
Kat

Can you please explain how these supposed "previous murder attempts" can be verified to the extent that they should be included in a custody application? I've noticed your posts over the last few days repeatedly insisting that you think this information is relevant to Cassidy's custody, yet you now make it sound like this is more of a sarcastic, than genuine, comment.

Could you please elaborate on not only verification that they were previous murder attempts, but also how they are related to custody.

[Jester]

The point is, that in itself, is not enough to remove a child..
Even with the other allegations, there is not enough.
That is why I brought up the "accidents".
IMO
Kat

I understand. Thanks. So you're saying that the allegations in the affidavit cannot be verified as true, so the affidavit should also include other speculations about unverified information.

The affidavit includes the clause (paraphrasing here) 'upon information and belief'. That suggests that the allegations in the affidavit can be verified.

[Kat4Eagles]

I understand. Thanks. So you're saying that the allegations in the affidavit cannot be verified as true, so the affidavit should also include other speculations about unverified information.

The affidavit includes the clause (paraphrasing here) 'upon information and belief'. That suggests that the allegations in the affidavit can be verified.


But, the car accident and the near drowning accident can't ?

:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Can you please explain how these supposed "previous murder attempts" can be verified to the extent that they should be included in a custody application? I've noticed your posts over the last few days repeatedly insisting that you think this information is relevant to Cassidy's custody, yet you now make it sound like this is more of a sarcastic, than genuine, comment.

Could you please elaborate on not only verification that they were previous murder attempts, but also how they are related to custody.

Previous murder attempts on the victim, would have much more bearing and be much more powerful to any suit, than someone who got blitzed at a party!!

Kat

[Jester]

But, the car accident and the near drowning accident can't ?

:shrug:

Kat

Wasn't it you that posted that the car accident had been re-investigated, and the finding was that there was no conclusive proof that it was anything more than an accident?

Do you have new information that it was not an accident?

[annalyzer]

Any adult at the age of 30 something who does not know how to safely drink, who doesnt know or tends to ignore limits has a BIG problem.IMO


Well he had one that night, he drank way too much. :laugh:

[Jester]

Previous murder attempts on the victim, would have much more bearing and be much more powerful to any suit, than someone who got blitzed at a party!!

Kat

As per above, I still have to question first why you think these supposed accidents can be verified, and secondly why you think they are relevant to a custody application. If I recall correctly, Jason left Cassidy with his mom while he took Michelle for that reckless, fateful, pointless coffee errand.

Introducing information that cannot be verified does not by default imply that the actual information in the affidavit is false, but I get the impression that this is what you are trying to argue. Am I missing something?

[annalyzer]

Can you imagine how this little town will talk when all the things from the law suit, the WDS, and the SW are being discussed right here in Brevard?

Oh well, it will give the back fence gossipers something to do. :laugh:

[annalyzer]

As per above, I still have to question first why you think these supposed accidents can be verified, and secondly why you think they are relevant to a custody application. If I recall correctly, Jason left Cassidy with his mom while he took Michelle for that reckless, fateful, pointless coffee errand.



If I am understanding correctly he didn't have Michelle or his child with him when he got drunk and undressed so why is that relevant?

[JHP]

If he answers the law suit, do you think Jason will ask that the case be moved to Transylvania County? That's a lot of dirty laundry to hang out in your own back yard. I wonder if that is part of the plan. Maybe they would like Jason to get the case moved. Can you imagine how this little town will talk when all the things from the law suit, the WDS, and the SW are being discussed right here in Brevard?

The family law practice that Linda and Meredith have obtained have a very respected reputation in Wake County. I don't think they would have filed this case in the wrong county.
I think it will be interesting to see if Jason will respond.

JMO

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Oh well, it will give the back fence gossipers something to do. :laugh:


And us...................:w00t:

[jerry50]

You may be right, we will have to wait and see.

But, I hope the Judge questions the timing of such a suit, and will ask when they first knew of this info and why they waited so long.

I want C to be where she is safe.
There does not appear to be any danger where she has been, so why worry now?

Kat


Many posters wrote pages of posts about the WDS and how Linda had no way to prove that JY was the killer and then a Wake County judge rules on the case and names him as Michelle's killer.
It may be the same case here, Linda has more evidence than just the couple of incidents that was listed on the custody suit. A high profile lawyer in child custody issues is not going to take a case that does not have merit. They have people's statements to back up their claims. If they are telling lies about JY then I am sure he will have no trouble in disputing them.

There is a ton of information that we don't have any idea about but that Linda and her lawyer feel is strong enough to be put forth in a custody suit. For all we know an arrest may be close and Linda is trying to make sure Cassidy is well cared for during a trial and long prison sentence for the killer.

[Jester]

If I am understanding correctly he didn't have Michelle or his child with him when he got drunk and undressed so why is that relevant?

Are you serious? You too see nothing wrong with a man that shows symptoms of 'alcoholic rubbiness' caring for a preschooler? You don't also think the Judge will be amused by all this too, do you?

The contents of the affidavit can be verified, and constitute serious concerns regarding custodial arrangements. The allegations are extremely relevant.

Kat is going to explain why supposed accidents that cannot be verified (according to her earlier posts) are relevant to custody.

[annalyzer]

Are you serious?

I was responding to your post above that asked why a car or boat accident would be relevant to a custody hearing if the child wasn't with them at the time of the alleged accidents.

[Kat4Eagles]

Are you serious? You too see nothing wrong with a man that shows symptoms of 'alcoholic rubbiness' caring for a preschooler? You don't also think the Judge will be amused by all this too, do you?

The contents of the affidavit can be verified, and constitute serious concerns regarding custodial arrangements. The allegations are extremely relevant.

Kat is going to explain why supposed accidents that cannot be verified (according to her earlier posts) are relevant to custody.


Because they were posted here as truth that Jason tried to murder Michelle before the nite of 11/3/06.

So, if that were true, it would be a lot more damaging than the charges
they chose to list in the custody suit.

Which means they must not be true..and the posters who posted them should retract them, but I guess we know better than to hold our breath.

Kat

[Cardinal]

Because they were posted here as truth that Jason tried to murder Michelle before the nite of 11/3/06.

So, if that were true, it would be a lot more damaging than the charges
they chose to list in the custody suit.

Which means they must not be true..and the posters who posted them should retract them, but I guess we know better than to hold our breath.

Kat

Whether or not they are true, I don't think they're more damaging than Jason having been declared the slayer of Michelle under NC law, which is also listed in the custody suit. That fact may carry enough weight by itself.

JMO

[Cardinal]

The Holiday board is open:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=347021

[MerriMent]

Also wanted to know, does Jason have to undergo a psych eval just because LF wants him to or does a judge have to order it? Or has a judge already ordered it based on LF's allegations in the suit?

LF's request for a psych evaluation is attached to her claim and will be heard at 1 hour hearing scheduled for Feb.

[jerry50]

Because they were posted here as truth that Jason tried to murder Michelle before the nite of 11/3/06.

So, if that were true, it would be a lot more damaging than the charges
they chose to list in the custody suit.

Which means they must not be true..and the posters who posted them should retract them, but I guess we know better than to hold our breath.

Kat

Just because the accidents were not listed on the suit does not mean that they are not true. Not every accusation was printed on the probable cause for the custody suit.
MIchelle may have mentioned that car accident and boating accident to her therapist but if there were no witnesses then they probably will not be brought into the custody suit.
DO you think that the posters who have accused Meredith will retract any of their statements?

[Cardinal]

The family law practice that Linda and Meredith have obtained have a very respected reputation in Wake County. I don't think they would have filed this case in the wrong county.
I think it will be interesting to see if Jason will respond.

JMO

I believe Linda Fisher's case was filed under GS 50A rather than GS 50. GS 50A doesn't seem to be county-specific.

Looks like this thread got moved to the Holiday board. That works! Just ignore the new one.

[Kat4Eagles]

Whether or not they are true, I don't think they're more damaging than Jason having been declared the slayer of Michelle under NC law, which is also listed in the custody suit. That fact may carry enough weight by itself.

JMO


But Jason was only named slayer because he failed to respond..

Not because he was arrested and charged with any crime..

But, that we could argue forever.

And, I would rather wish everyone a Merry Christmas .

:)

Kat

:seeya:

[annalyzer]

Wow, two days before Christmas and still no arrest. I sure would like to know what is keeping them from arresting Jason.

[annalyzer]

But Jason was only named slayer because he failed to respond..

Not because he was arrested and charged with any crime..

But, that we could argue forever.

And, I would rather wish everyone a Merry Christmas .

:)

Kat

:seeya:


Hi Kat and Card (and Lindsey if she's here). I wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas too! I have to work but I'll just be spending the day with the elderly lady I care for so no big deal. Merry Christmas everyone!

[annalyzer]

Actually, the main reason Jason is unfit to raise Cassidy is if he is indeed the murderer of Michelle, and left his 2 year old alone, and with her mother's dead body and just drove away. Murder and child endangerment are plenty to prove that he is unfit.


But instead of listing that in her suit LF chose to list a time he got drunk and undressed at some party. Go figure.

[annalyzer]

It still is his behavior and drinking that would be the key thing. If Jason is comfortable enough to get that wasted at someone else's home (party, no less) and strip down, the judge might wonder how much more comfortable he would be in his home with Cassidy there. Taking off your clothes in public is a crime, lewd and lascvicious conduct, and it is punishable by time in jail. And his drinking problem seems way out of control, that would have to be considered if you're raising a child alone.


Oh this could really get ugly if Jason chooses to fight this. If Meredith ever did drugs, or drank in excess, etc., anything and everything can be brought up. :ohmy:

[Leanne Weich]

Because they were posted here as truth that Jason tried to murder Michelle before the nite of 11/3/06.

So, if that were true, it would be a lot more damaging than the charges
they chose to list in the custody suit.

Which means they must not be true..and the posters who posted them should retract them, but I guess we know better than to hold our breath.

Kat

Why should anyone retract anything said previously, as you yourself have stated once they're out there, they stand. I guess people are as sick of hearing about the retraction of Meredith being an embezzler as they are of hearing about incidents which may or may not have been accidents. Seems like the Fisher family are not relying on "maybes" but on facts which they can substantiate. Instead of looking at each individual event alone, why don't you look at the cumulative effect of all the information which Linda's attorneys have put forward to attempt to ascertain the validity of their claim or not? These are no second rate attorneys and I'm pretty sure they can prove each and every allegation contained in the TC complaint. It is going to be interesting to reaf the affidavits in support thereof, once they are released, imo.

[Leanne Weich]

But Jason was only named slayer because he failed to respond..

Not because he was arrested and charged with any crime..

But, that we could argue forever.

And, I would rather wish everyone a Merry Christmas .

:)

Kat :seeya:

And that changes the fact how? He had ample opportunity to defend himself but decided to remain mute. If he can't be bothered to protect himself, thus ensuring he doesn't carry the SLAYER title around, how can one realistically expect him to protect his daughter? That title will impact his ability to obtain paid employment - tell me that makes for a good life for Cassidy?

[achristie]

Why should anyone retract anything said previously, as you yourself have stated once they're out there, they stand. I guess people are as sick of hearing about the retraction of Meredith being an embezzler as they are of hearing about incidents which may or may not have been accidents. Seems like the Fisher family are not relying on "maybes" but on facts which they can substantiate. Instead of looking at each individual event alone, why don't you look at the cumulative effect of all the information which Linda's attorneys have put forward to attempt to ascertain the validity of their claim or not? These are no second rate attorneys and I'm pretty sure they can prove each and every allegation contained in the TC complaint. It is going to be interesting to reaf the affidavits in support thereof, once they are released, imo.


Very interesting, Leanne. Here's hoping it doesn't break for a few more days as we are all busy celebrating the warmth of Christmas with our families. A selfish thought, I know. LF and MF don't share that luxury. A sad, serious fact after so many glaringly sarcastic posts I've read today on this board. Shameful. Not surprising, but shameful, none the less. My best to you and yours.

MOO Aggie

[jerry50]

But Jason was only named slayer because he failed to respond..

Not because he was arrested and charged with any crime..

But, that we could argue forever.

And, I would rather wish everyone a Merry Christmas .

:)

Kat

:seeya:

No, Jason was not named a slayer because he did not respond to a legal document in a court of law. He was named a slayer after the judge read affidavits spelling out the reasons that JY is more than likely the killer.

[jerry50]

But instead of listing that in her suit LF chose to list a time he got drunk and undressed at some party. Go figure.


Maybe we will find out that that incidence is the least humiliating in their long list of grievances.

[jerry50]

Oh this could really get ugly if Jason chooses to fight this. If Meredith ever did drugs, or drank in excess, etc., anything and everything can be brought up. :ohmy:

I think our president elect has admitted to taking drugs so I guess the bar for infractions has gotten a lot lower.

[Leanne Weich]

Very interesting, Leanne. Here's hoping it doesn't break for a few more days as we are all busy celebrating the warmth of Christmas with our families. A selfish thought, I know. LF and MF don't share that luxury. A sad, serious fact after so many glaringly sarcastic posts I've read today on this board. Shameful. Not surprising, but shameful, none the less. My best to you and yours.

MOO Aggie

Hey Aggie. It is so sad that at this time of the year some people feel the need to spew sarcasm directly upon Linda and Meredith. One would think people could feel a bit of empathy for two women for whom the holidays will always be associated with unbearable sadness but, not surprisingly, that was expecting a bit much.

I hope you have a wonderful time with your family - unfortunately I wont be with mine this year but I'm sure we'll burn up the telephone lines. Thank goodness for cheap international calls. I will be saying an extra special prayer for Linda, Meredith, Cassidy and the LE officials at midnight mass tonight. Have a wonderful and safe holiday season.

[Breakingnews]

Maybe we will find out that that incidence is the least humiliating in their long list of grievances.

Yes, I believe their motive is to show a pattern of behavior. Not a one time booze it up and get naked in front of everyone complaint.

[Barbara2]

Yes, I believe their motive is to show a pattern of behavior. Not a one time booze it up and get naked in front of everyone complaint.

Based on the wording in the suit, I believe you are 100% correct. I don't think they needed to list all of the different examples in the suit. They listed one. I wonder how many other parties were attended by people who have pictures capturing examples of drunken behavior by Jason.

[annalyzer]

Yes, I believe their motive is to show a pattern of behavior. Not a one time booze it up and get naked in front of everyone complaint.

From what I've read about Jason this is how he's always been, a goof off, cut up kind of guy. But Michelle must not have minded since she married him and had his child.

If Jason murdered her he needs to go to prison. I don't care what Jason did one night at a party when he was drunk.

[MerriMent]

Oh this could really get ugly if Jason chooses to fight this. If Meredith ever did drugs, or drank in excess, etc., anything and everything can be brought up. :ohmy:

Might not be any fight at all if Meredith Fisher can't prove to the Judge she's been cleared as a suspect.

[Leanne Weich]

Might not be any fight at all if Meredith Fisher can't prove to the Judge she's been cleared as a suspect.

I see you're dreaming again. I have no doubt Detective Spivey would never have alleged under oath that he believes JY to be the murderer if Meredith was a suspect. For that matter, I doubt he'd have sworn to the affidavit if anyone else was a suspect either.

If Jason decides to go that route, I hope he has plenty of evidence ... maybe Casey and the Zanny defense has given him an idea ... don't think it'll play in either case.

[Doorbell]

Might not be any fight at all if Meredith Fisher can't prove to the Judge she's been cleared as a suspect.

The only place Meredith is considered a suspect is in your mind.

[Cardinal]

Hi Kat and Card (and Lindsey if she's here). I wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas too! I have to work but I'll just be spending the day with the elderly lady I care for so no big deal. Merry Christmas everyone!

Merry Christmas to you too, Anna. I know you'll bring some cheer to your elderly lady. And Merry Christmas (or your Holiday of choice!) to everyone else as well.

I hope Michelle's family and friends will find some joy in their memories of her this season, and I hope those memories bring comfort and hope that there will be justice for Michelle and Rylan.

:rose:

[Cardinal]

From what I've read about Jason this is how he's always been, a goof off, cut up kind of guy. But Michelle must not have minded since she married him and had his child.

If Jason murdered her he needs to go to prison. I don't care what Jason did one night at a party when he was drunk.

I don't care so much about a one-night drunken escapade either, Anna. But I would care if it's part of a pattern of behavior that might indicate he puts his own enjoyment ahead of Cassidy's needs.

I guess we'll have to wait until we see the entire case to know if that's true. I seriously doubt that the few things mentioned in the custody filing are the entire case.

As for Michelle not minding - having been involved with a "Peter Pan" guy at one time in my own life, I can say that those guys are great fun in the beginning. But after the responsibilities mount and you need some real support, the "fun" wears really thin.

JMO

[annalyzer]

I don't care so much about a one-night drunken escapade either, Anna. But I would care if it's part of a pattern of behavior that might indicate he puts his own enjoyment ahead of Cassidy's needs.

I guess we'll have to wait until we see the entire case to know if that's true. I seriously doubt that the few things mentioned in the custody filing are the entire case.

As for Michelle not minding - having been involved with a "Peter Pan" guy at one time in my own life, I can say that those guys are great fun in the beginning. But after the responsibilities mount and you need some real support, the "fun" wears really thin.

JMO

As far as I'm concerned if Jason killed Michelle and left his toddler alone with her dead body for hours that alone is enough to prove he is an unfit parent. So how about killing two birds with one stone and arresting Jason, try and convict if he's guilty and LF can gain custody.

[annalyzer]

Add to my last post ~ Maybe LF is pursuing this custody case now so that if and when Jason is arrested and convicted she won't have any more problems of being able to see her granddaughter (the Young's keeping her from them).

[jerry50]

Add to my last post ~ Maybe LF is pursuing this custody case now so that if and when Jason is arrested and convicted she won't have any more problems of being able to see her granddaughter (the Young's keeping her from them).

I think you may be exactly right. She has info on when an arrest will probably occur and with a no bail first degree murder indictment she wants to make sure Cassidy is being taken care of.

[Leanne Weich]

To all the wonderful posters who keep the hope for justice for Michelle, Linda, Meredith and Cassidy alive throughout the year, now that Christmas is almost over here and you are celebrating yours, I hope you have a fabulous day, great food and lots of fun with your friends and family.

Our Priest said a special prayer for Michelle and the abovementioned at midnight Mass this morning. Another church member had asked for a prayer for Cindy, George and Caylee Anthony too. Goes to show that these tragedies are truly global in this day of the international media.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL AND PLEASE DRIVE CAREFULLY AND, IF YOU DRINK, DO SO RESPONSIBLY. :wub:

[kingbuff]

To all the wonderful posters who keep the hope for justice for Michelle, Linda, Meredith and Cassidy alive throughout the year, now that Christmas is almost over here and you are celebrating yours, I hope you have a fabulous day, great food and lots of fun with your friends and family.

Our Priest said a special prayer for Michelle and the abovementioned at midnight Mass this morning. Another church member had asked for a prayer for Cindy, George and Caylee Anthony too. Goes to show that these tragedies are truly global in this day of the international media.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL AND PLEASE DRIVE CAREFULLY AND, IF YOU DRINK, DO SO RESPONSIBLY. :wub:

Very small-minded of you and your pastor not to include Jason in that prayer.

[5swab5]

Very small-minded of you and your pastor not to include Jason in that prayer.

Why should anyone, let alone a man of the cloth waste the Lord's time praying for a slayer?

Seems to me, it is already in the devil's hands.

MOO

[kingbuff]

Why should anyone, let alone a man of the cloth waste the Lord's time praying for a slayer?

Seems to me, it is already in the devil's hands.

MOO

As I said---small-minded.

[5swab5]

As I said---small-minded.

Since you insist...

I pray that the brutal "slayer" of Michelle and Rylan be tormented and tortured in life, death and for all of eternity.

Amen

MOO

[Leanne Weich]

Very small-minded of you and your pastor not to include Jason in that prayer.

IYO maybe. I wouldn't pray for Joseph Duncan, Neil Entwhistle or any other murderer (and obviously, like Judge Stephens, I feel Jason is a murderer too) but, leave my Priest out of your judgments. He doesn't have a clue who Jason is and, for all he knows, Michelle could have been killed by a random murderer. For someone who comes on this forum and tries to BS about wanting justice for Michelle, it just shows where your priorities lie. Why don't you take the initiative and ask a pastor to pray for Jason - maybe it's not a good idea - particularly if God answered your prayer as that's not what you want now, is it?

[Jester]

A very Merry Christmas to all

[daddydidit]

IYO maybe. I wouldn't pray for Joseph Duncan, Neil Entwhistle or any other murderer (and obviously, like Judge Stephens, I feel Jason is a murderer too) but, leave my Priest out of your judgments. He doesn't have a clue who Jason is and, for all he knows, Michelle could have been killed by a random murderer. For someone who comes on this forum and tries to BS about wanting justice for Michelle, it just shows where your priorities lie. Why don't you take the initiative and ask a pastor to pray for Jason - maybe it's not a good idea - particularly if God answered your prayer as that's not what you want now, is it?


Yes, I have to wonder if kingbuff would ask in church for a prayer for JY?

Those Brevardians might not take to that too kindly.

[kingbuff]

Since you insist...

I pray that the brutal "slayer" of Michelle and Rylan be tormented and tortured in life, death and for all of eternity.

Amen

MOO

Never cared much for torture, myself. But I pray the killer(s) be made to pay.

[kingbuff]

IYO maybe. I wouldn't pray for Joseph Duncan, Neil Entwhistle or any other murderer (and obviously, like Judge Stephens, I feel Jason is a murderer too) but, leave my Priest out of your judgments. He doesn't have a clue who Jason is and, for all he knows, Michelle could have been killed by a random murderer. For someone who comes on this forum and tries to BS about wanting justice for Michelle, it just shows where your priorities lie. Why don't you take the initiative and ask a pastor to pray for Jason - maybe it's not a good idea - particularly if God answered your prayer as that's not what you want now, is it?

I think you could be open, truthful, straight-forward with your priest. Let him decide who to pray for.

[Leanne Weich]

I think you could be open, truthful, straight-forward with your priest. Let him decide who to pray for.

That's really rich coming from you about being truthful. With over 1000 congregants, I doubt he wanted or needed for me to explain 2+ years worth of what has transpired in a case. It was, after all, midnight Mass which, in and of itself, is a lengthy sermon for an elderly man to undertake, only to sleep for a couple of hours and then start all over again with the Christmas day Masses.

In any event, it is rather presumptuous of you to assume I ever gave a thought as to whether Jason should be prayed for or not. I would think it is a personal decision for whom one prays and, if Jason is the praying (not preying) type of person, maybe he or his friends should head to Church and do what is necessary.

BTW Merry Christmas or a very happy (name holiday of your choice) to all.

[Jester]

Never cared much for torture, myself. But I pray the killer(s) be made to pay.

Are you absolutely convinced that the killer is not Jason? If, by chance, he is arrested and convicted, will you then believe it is Jason or will you conclude that it is a mistake?

[Cardinal]

To all the wonderful posters who keep the hope for justice for Michelle, Linda, Meredith and Cassidy alive throughout the year, now that Christmas is almost over here and you are celebrating yours, I hope you have a fabulous day, great food and lots of fun with your friends and family.

Our Priest said a special prayer for Michelle and the abovementioned at midnight Mass this morning. ~snipped~

What a lovely thing to do, Leanne. I know that prayer was heard.

I hope everyone had a special holiday, and I pray that the New Year will bring justice for Michelle and Rylan, stability for Cassidy and peace for Michelle's family.

[Cardinal]

I'm not answering for KC but giving my feelings. After the last warrants were released I am more convinced than ever that JY didn't kill his wife. Until then he was on my suspect list but I can't see MF aiding him in this murder and I am convinced she drove MY's car that day. If in the very beginning LE may have found a witness to that fact but was convinced JY was their guy and now after all this time its to late. JY may be arrested but I don't think he will ever be convicted. IMOO

And if Jason is both arrested and convicted, will you believe he's guilty?

[Cardinal]

I will except but I won't believe it. I will believe someone got by with murder.

So despite all of the CE, despite the fact that a judge declared him a slayer under NC law, your mind is completely closed to the possibility that Jason is guilty?

[MerriMent]

Cardinal, What part of the default judgment are you not understanding? The judge had only one way to go and that was guilty. JY's attorney decided to let the WDS pass knowing as second beneficially the child would get every thing. A civil judgment of slayer gets you nothing zilch. JY saved about 30 to 50 thousand dollars and let his daughter reap the benefits. Until the last warrant I still had him on my list but took him off. I am convinced MF drove that car that day.

yes, according to the search warrant, LE believe the child was removed from the home and also according to the warrant, MF gave conflicting statements about car keys. And if LE had suspicions that Jason conspired with Meredith, I think her recent grab for custody of his daughter erases all doubt.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal, What part of the default judgment are you not understanding? The judge had only one way to go and that was guilty. JY's attorney decided to let the WDS pass knowing as second beneficially the child would get every thing. A civil judgment of slayer gets you nothing zilch. JY saved about 30 to 50 thousand dollars and let his daughter reap the benefits. Until the last warrant I still had him on my list but took him off. I am convinced MF drove that car that day.

What part of my question are you not understanding? I asked if despite all of the CE pointing to Jason, despite the fact that a judge declared him a slayer under NC law, your mind is completely closed to the possibility that Jason is guilty?

A simple yes or no will do.

[MerriMent]

What part of my question are you not understanding? I asked if despite all of the CE pointing to Jason, despite the fact that a judge declared him a slayer under NC law, your mind is completely closed to the possibility that Jason is guilty?

A simple yes or no will do.

You didn't ask a simple question and confused has explained his answer. You might believe there is "all of the CE pointing to Jason" but the fact is the guy still hasn't been arrested despite being named slayer in a civil case.

Your mind seems closed to the very real fact there is real evidence that points to someone else.

[Cardinal]

You didn't ask a simple question and confused has explained his answer. You might believe there is "all of the CE pointing to Jason" but the fact is the guy still hasn't been arrested despite being named slayer in a civil case.

Your mind seems closed to the very real fact there is real evidence that points to someone else.

Confused, if this is MerriMent's response on your behalf, I'll take that as a "yes".

[jerry50]

Here's the judgement . It states by default.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungRuling.pdf



Here is #8 in the judgement:

"Based on affidavit submitted by the Plaintiff in support of her motion, particularly Investigator Spivey's three affidavits, the court finds that the allegation that "in the early morning hours of
November 3, 2006, Jason Young brutally murdered Michelle Young at their residence" is an admitted fact in this civil action."


Linda did not win by default alone. A plaintiff has to have some proffer of proof and according to the judge she presented facts that the judge determined were true.

[Cardinal]

It was my understanding I had already answered your question. Sorry if you didn't like my answer.

I have no feelings at all about your response. I just didn't see where you answered my question. I'll be glad to try again; here it is:

Is your mind completely closed to the possibility that Jason Young is guilty of the murder of Michelle and Rylan?

Is there some problem with giving me a simple yes or no answer?

[enigma™]

Here is #8 in the judgement:

"Based on affidavit submitted by the Plaintiff in support of her motion, particularly Investigator Spivey's three affidavits, the court finds that the allegation that "in the early morning hours of
November 3, 2006, Jason Young brutally murdered Michelle Young at their residence" is an [i]admitted fact[i] in this civil action."


Linda did not win by default alone. A plaintiff has to have some proffer of proof and according to the judge she presented facts that the judge determined were true.

An admitted fact , that doesn't sound like default to me.

[enigma™]

Why are you shouting we are all being nice here?

Your perception is incorrect. I was emphasizing, not shouting.

[enigma™]

In computer language that is shouting .

No, in computer language, ALL CAPS is considered shouting. I used the functions available to make a point. The judge allowed "as an admitted fact" that Jason Lynn Young is the slayer of Michelle and Rylan. "admitted fact" - got it now? If you have any other questions about "computer language", please be sure to p.m. me, I'm more than happy to help. Hope this helps, and your eyes stop ringing.

[Leanne Weich]

An admitted fact , that doesn't sound like default to me.

Funny in retrospect the JIIs all adamantly maintained that JY could not be declared the SLAYER on default and evidence had to be produced. Now, when evidence, sufficient to make the determination has been produced, suddenly it was a judgment by default. I am of the belief that even when and if JY is convicted and ensconced in the big house, those self same posters will still be trying to blame Meredith. I honestly hope that the custody application is not the last law suit we see filed besides the criminal one. I'd love to see a number of people sued for libel for the BS that has been posted about Meredith purely because she was thrust into being at the murder scene whilst trying to unwittingly help her b-i-l keep, what she assumed, was a secret.

[achristie]

Merry Christmas to Leanne, Jerry, Cardinal, and Enigma. Here's hoping for justice in this very sad case. I'm creating a new proverb "Waste not your breath".

MOO Aggie

[kingbuff]

I have no feelings at all about your response. I just didn't see where you answered my question. I'll be glad to try again; here it is:

Is your mind completely closed to the possibility that Jason Young is guilty of the murder of Michelle and Rylan?

Is there some problem with giving me a simple yes or no answer?

The truth is never simple. You should know that. You're asking for an essay. I doubt you will get one. Keep hammering.

[kingbuff]

Merry Christmas to Leanne, Jerry, Cardinal, and Enigma. Here's hoping for justice in this very sad case. I'm creating a new proverb "Waste not your breath".

MOO Aggie

Small-minded girl. I hope everyone has a delicious New Year!!!

[enigma™]

Funny in retrospect the JIIs all adamantly maintained that JY could not be declared the SLAYER on default and evidence had to be produced. Now, when evidence, sufficient to make the determination has been produced, suddenly it was a judgment by default. I am of the belief that even when and if JY is convicted and ensconced in the big house, those self same posters will still be trying to blame Meredith. I honestly hope that the custody application is not the last law suit we see filed besides the criminal one. I'd love to see a number of people sued for libel for the BS that has been posted about Meredith purely because she was thrust into being at the murder scene whilst trying to unwittingly help her b-i-l keep, what she assumed, was a secret.

They are the same ones that still think Scott Peterson is innocent, and probably add to his commissary account. I am with you on the libel, what some have posted here about Meredith is indefensible.

(consolidating responses here)

AGGIE - yes I shouted AGGIE - belated Merry Christmas to you and yours! Same to everyone else, although I am a day late. Happy thoughts for the new year, an arrest, trial and conviction would be nice, but this one is going to take longer than a year unless the perpetrator confesses. That has not happened yet, so an arrest would be just fine.

[Cardinal]

Yes Cardinal I've tried twice it says my message is to short.

Thank you, Confused, for the straight answer. I appreciate it.

[kingbuff]

Where's the libel? All I see are opinions on an opinion board.

[Cardinal]

Merry Christmas to Leanne, Jerry, Cardinal, and Enigma. Here's hoping for justice in this very sad case. I'm creating a new proverb "Waste not your breath".

MOO Aggie

Merry Christmas to you too, Aggie. And I like the proverb. :biggrin:

At this point, I suppose I should also say Happy New Year. And I truly hope the New Year will bring justice for Michelle and Rylan.

[Cardinal]

The truth is never simple. You should know that. You're asking for an essay. I doubt you will get one. Keep hammering.

I was asking for a straight answer. Confused was kind enough to provide one. Perhaps that's a foreign concept for you.

JMO

[jerry50]

Where's the libel? All I see are opinions on an opinion board.


Whena posters accuses Meredith of dipping Cassidy's socks in her Mother's blood, of calling Linda a powderkeg, that Linda ia after Cassidy's money for herself, etc, those are libelous statements because there is no inkling that they are true and the posters have been told that there is no evidence supporting their claims.
There were a lot of posters who didn't think that Linda would proceed and then succeed in a WDS and she did. They also didn't think that she would file a custody suit and she did.
I am assuming that they are also thinking that Linda will never file a defamation suit. Well that may be their strike 3. One poster in particular continues to insist that Linda is only after Cassidy's money. A defamation suit could get her that money a lot quicker than waiting till Cassidy is 18.

[kingbuff]

I was asking for a straight answer. Confused was kind enough to provide one. Perhaps that's a foreign concept for you.

JMO

Oh. You were asking for a simple truth. That's a foreign concept for me. I believe the truth is never simple. Do you?

[enigma™]

Where's the libel? All I see are opinions on an opinion board.


There are none so blind as those who will not see - or something like that.

[kingbuff]

So, how about your opinion about Cassie's bloody socks? Define 'powderkeg'. What's your opinion about Fisher and money?

[Cardinal]

Oh. You were asking for a simple truth. That's a foreign concept for me. I believe the truth is never simple. Do you?

I was asking for Confused's opinion. You misunderstood, obviously.

[kingbuff]

I find that emoticon so offensive,especially in this case.
Did you really mean to use that, John?
I'd like to think you didn't.
But that is just me. Always hopeful, I guess.

MOO Aggie

I don't use those silly things. My icon bar says 'no icon'. You try typing 'hammer'. Okay, try typing that word that is a useful tool when driving nails.

[achristie]

Oh. You were asking for a simple truth. That's a foreign concept for me. I believe the truth is never simple. Do you?

That's because we are human. Sometimes the truth is way too painful to accept. But it is the truth, therefore we are forced to abide and reckon with it, if we are EVER to be free. I agree, many times, a tough task for we mortals. For the stubborn, insurmountable, thus the illusion continues and is forever binding.

MOO Aggie

[enigma™]

I was asking for Confused's opinion. You misunderstood, obviously.

Too much eggnog would be my holiday guess. kingbuff is still seeking answers, yet never answers questions. I do believe he knows his young friend is guilty of this heinous crime, yet still wants to see the murderer to roam free, possibly to murder again. That is just my guess, though. I have nothing to substantiate it, other than reading his posts for the past 2+ years. He definitely is not seeking justice for Michelle, though.

[kingbuff]

That's because we are human. Sometimes the truth is way too painful to accept. But it is the truth, therefore we are forced to abide and reckon with it, if we are EVER to be free. I agree, many times, a tough task for we mortals. For the stubborn, insurmountable, thus the illusion continues and is forever binding.

MOO Aggie

Try explaining that to your bud. The truth is simple. It's the expression of a truth that is not simple. Asking for a one-word expression of truth is silly grade-school nonsense.

[kingbuff]

Too much eggnog would be my holiday guess. kingbuff is still seeking answers, yet never answers questions. I do believe he knows his young friend is guilty of this heinous crime, yet still wants to see the murderer to roam free, possibly to murder again. That is just my guess, though. I have nothing to substantiate it, other than reading his posts for the past 2+ years. He definitely is not seeking justice for Michelle, though.

Is that libel? Or opinion? Avoid my lawyer.

[enigma™]

So, how about your opinion about Cassie's bloody socks? Define 'powderkeg'. What's your opinion about Fisher and money?

The bloody socks are quite bothersome. Where were they found? Were they tested? Can you say absolutely they were not? Why would a poster say someone dipped Cassidy's socked feet in her dead mother's blood, and then proceeeded to make footprints around the house? And then we read there are no bloody footprints. Are there or aren't there? Are the socks bloody, or aren't they? Would Jason really do that to his daughter?

(hurt me to type all that - sorry for the graphic reminder)

Who would define someone they never met and never will meet, as a powderkeg? Linda Fisher has been the epitome of class throughout this whole ordeal. She lost her first-born. SHE LOST HER FIRST BORN CHILD! No parent should lose a child, and especially in such a horrible manner. Linda is not after any money, she never has been, she never will be. Her interests lie with what is best for her FIRST BORN'S only surviving child, her granddaughter - CASSIDY.

[enigma™]

Try explaining that to your bud. The truth is simple. It's the expression of a truth that is not simple. Asking for a one-word expression of truth is silly grade-school nonsense.

And yet you re"buff" an either/or scenario. Pick a lane.

[enigma™]

Is that libel? Or opinion? Avoid my lawyer.


Are things getting weirderer in the land of Brevard that you need a lawyer for libel now? How nice, how very, very nice.

[achristie]

I don't use those silly things. My icon bar says 'no icon'. You try typing 'hammer'. Okay, try typing that word that is a useful tool when driving nails.


Got it. Thanks for explaining. I DETEST that thing.

[jerry50]

The bloody socks are quite bothersome. Where were they found? Were they tested? Can you say absolutely they were not? Why would a poster say someone dipped Cassidy's socked feet in her dead mother's blood, and then proceeeded to make footprints around the house? And then we read there are no bloody footprints. Are there or aren't there? Are the socks bloody, or aren't they? Would Jason really do that to his daughter?

(hurt me to type all that - sorry for the graphic reminder)

Who would define someone they never met and never will meet, as a powderkeg? Linda Fisher has been the epitome of class throughout this whole ordeal. She lost her first-born. SHE LOST HER FIRST BORN CHILD! No parent should lose a child, and especially in such a horrible manner. Linda is not after any money, she never has been, she never will be. Her interests lie with what is best for her FIRST BORN'S only surviving child, her granddaughter - CASSIDY.

Very well stated. Linda and Meredith have talked to police in order to help LE with the investigation. What humanbeing who had a very close family member murdered in such a horrific manner would not help LE in every possible way? This is what sets JY apart , it is of his own doing, or rather, not doing.
What person would not care if the killer of their spouse was on the loose? If he was actually innocent doesn't he care if someone else is murdered by this uncaught killer?

[enigma™]

Very well stated. Linda and Meredith have talked to police in order to help LE with the investigation. What humanbeing who had a very close family member murdered in such a horrific manner would not help LE in every possible way? This is what sets JY apart , it is of his own doing, or rather, not doing.
What person would not care if the killer of their spouse was on the loose? If he was actually innocent doesn't he care if someone else is murdered by this uncaught killer?

Jerry50, I am all for IUPG, but when a "caring" spouse does not even ask his attorney to inquire as to the status of the case, there is 0178thing very wrong. There are no words to describe this type of human being, and I am aghast that none of the JI² question this.

kingbuff why does Jason Lynn Young, SLAYER, by "admitted fact", not inquire about the investigation, either via his attorney or by his own need to find resolution to this horrible situation? Does he not want the murderer to be found? (rhetorical)

[enigma™]

I tried to edit, not sure where the 0178 came from but it should read "something", in case anyone needed a translation.

[kingbuff]

Jerry50, I am all for IUPG, but when a "caring" spouse does not even ask his attorney to inquire as to the status of the case, there is 0178thing very wrong. There are no words to describe this type of human being, and I am aghast that none of the JI² question this.

kingbuff why does Jason Lynn Young, SLAYER, by "admitted fact", not inquire about the investigation, either via his attorney or by his own need to find resolution to this horrible situation? Does he not want the murderer to be found? (rhetorical)

Oh. I see. You're the one who started the rumor that Jason doesn't know what is going on. You probably also started the rumor that he was surprised by Fisher's actions. Is this your version of fishing? More practice is what you need.

[Cardinal]

~snipped~ The truth is never simple.

~snipped~ I believe the truth is never simple.

~snipped~ The truth is simple.



As Enigma said, pick a lane. Once you do, I'd be interested in your answer to my question:

Is your mind completely closed to the possibility that Jason Young is guilty of the murder of Michelle and Rylan?


ETA: BTW, you should be really careful about inconsistent statements. According to some, that's a sign of something to hide.

[kingbuff]

The simple truth is, I was mocking Oscar, never one of my favorites. The simple truth is my mind is never 'closed' to anything, except possibly Oscar. I am constantly assaulted by new ideas. That's why I'm not on the board much: it's not the place to look for new ideas.

[enigma™]

Oh. I see. You're the one who started the rumor that Jason doesn't know what is going on. You probably also started the rumor that he was surprised by Fisher's actions. Is this your version of fishing? More practice is what you need.

wha? wth are you babbling about? I started no rumors. It is my belief that you need to take your head out of that mountain vat of eggnog. I am not, nor have ever been a fisherperson - literally or figuratively. Take your bait elsewhere.

What you need is 12 steps, when you achieve that sobriety, you will then be aware of your missteps, will be able to accept the things you cannot change, change the things you can, and know the difference between the 2. However, your sobriety has nothing to do with the bludgeoning death of Michelle. It may help you accept who the murderer is. Justice is just around the corner. Get good with your god, I have a feeling you are going to need that comfort.

[enigma™]

The simple truth is, I was mocking Oscar, never one of my favorites. The simple truth is my mind is never 'closed' to anything, except possibly Oscar. I am constantly assaulted by new ideas. That's why I'm not on the board much: it's not the place to look for new ideas.

Never say never. I do believe that you feel the slayer on record is innocent. What are you going to do when you find he is guilty of murdering Michelle? That is what enquiring minds want to know. It will happen - you know it in your heart. He did it, you mentored him, you are having a difficult time dealing with this truth. Once you accept this, you will be able to cope better.

I almost feel sorry for you, except I cannot forget the lies you spread about the innocent. That is truly unforgiveable, and that is your cross to bear. Have a happy new year - it should get interesting.

- on another note -

CUSTODY OF CASSIE - should go to those who loves her most - the ones willing to sacrifice the most, the ones who didn't see her this holiday season... not so Happy Holidays, Linda and Meredith, but I have been thinking of you, as have many others. May 2009 bring you peace and closure.

[MerriMent]

The simple truth is, I was mocking Oscar, never one of my favorites. The simple truth is my mind is never 'closed' to anything, except possibly Oscar. I am constantly assaulted by new ideas. That's why I'm not on the board much: it's not the place to look for new ideas.

Happy Holidays, kingbuff!!
It is simple truth that Oscar lied on the witness stand at his own trial and landed himself in prison.

[enigma™]

I have seen you make numerous remarks about kingbluff drinking tonight. Is this something you have personal knowledge of or is this libel?

What in the world are you talking about? This is the Michelle Young thread. Michelle and her unborn son, Rylan, were taken from this world, and it was not happenstance. If you follow the bouncing red ball, perhaps you will see why I inferred he was into the eggnog. You protest on his behalf, whereas he does not. strange...

[enigma™]

I have seen you make numerous remarks about kingbluff drinking tonight. Is this something you have personal knowledge of or is this libel?


king bluff - now that is hysterical. I tried to edit to include this with my original response, but I was too late. Actually, it really should stand alone. kingbluff

What has he done for you lately? Bluff... I'm still laughing here.

[Jester]

So, how about your opinion about Cassie's bloody socks? Define 'powderkeg'. What's your opinion about Fisher and money?

I have an opinion: From the Jester to the King

Young was due to inherit his wife's estate, including the insurance policy. Michelle's family wanted to ensure that the estate was preserved for Michelle's daughter. Young was reluctant to collect on the estate, and the opportunity for Michelle's family to look after the matter expired 2 years after her murder. Fortunately, Michelle's family stepped in and has secured the inheritance for Michelle's daughter. Young had neglected to look after the estate even two years after his wife's murder. Michelle's family did the right thing.

Young has a history of neglect, including neglecting to place an headstone on his wife's grave. Young was negligent in handling the estate, so the responsibility was removed using legal means. It is now in the hands of Michelle's family to manage the estate for her daughter until such age that she is determined to be the beneficiary of the estate.

Cassidy's socks had blood on them. In my opinion, Young murdered his wife, jumped in the shower to clean up, and his daughter came into the bedroom. He came out of the shower, where he saw her bloody footprints, carried her to the bathroom and closed the door. He dressed, and then took her to her bedroom where he gave her adult drugs to induce sleep. After she was sleep, I think he put her on his side of the bed in the master bedroom. Since this in itself is strange, I also think it's possible that he intended to over-medicate her such that both she and Michelle were found deceased in the master bedroom.

Since Young researched methods of murder that focused on restriction of blood to the brain (ischemia), and she had marks on her neck, I think Young possibly intended a soft kill on Michelle and a drug overdose on their daughter.

She got blood on her socks walking around her mother while dad was in the shower or distracted in the garage. When she was placed in the bathroom, she lay on the floor and kicked the door, explaining the blood smears.

Think about it for a minute, and tell where there is an error in reasoning.

If there is no error, then you would have to admit that it's possible. I think we can discard the "I was out of town" alibi, as that has holes.

[Jester]

I don't know. Maybe Young placed his daughter in the master bedroom on his side of the bed, with her mother murdered on the floor on her side of the bed, without realizing what she would wake up to.

Her daughter was placed on his side of the bed, where she was found at 1:30 in the afternoon. Who but a father would do that?

[Cardinal]

The simple truth is, I was mocking Oscar, never one of my favorites. The simple truth is my mind is never 'closed' to anything, except possibly Oscar. I am constantly assaulted by new ideas. That's why I'm not on the board much: it's not the place to look for new ideas.

I'm sure you can find a forum for the discussion of Oscar Wilde, but this one is for the discussion of Michelle Young.

As for new ideas, several have been posted here. Unfortunately, those ideas have, more often than not, been met with mockery and derision, in an attempt to defend the indefensible and obfuscate the facts of this case.

The good news is, it doesn't matter. LE has the evidence that it has, and, at some point, there will be trial during which that evidence will be presented to the jury which will render a verdict. Nothing said here, no absence of new ideas, will change that.

There will be justice for Michelle and Rylan, and there will be equilibrium for Cassidy.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Thats one version . Here's another one in this version she was walking around in the house. I guess you can believe which ever one you want. They both are part of public records and if this ever gets to trial you can bet MF is going to have to decide which version she wants to go with.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085656/warrant1.swf

Did Meredith write that SW?

[Cardinal]

Are you saying Wake County put something in a warrant they weren't told?

I just don't see anything in that SW that says Meredith told someone that Cassidy was walking around. An officer on the scene who saw the footprints in the bathroom could have concluded that Cassidy was walking around, and conveyed that information to the officer who wrote the SW. Nowhere in that warrant does it say that information came from a statement by Meredith.

In fact, since that same paragraph also references blood spatter on the wall and lamp, I think it's far more likely that the officer on the scene was providing information based upon his observations.

JMO

[Cardinal]

I'm sure you are right. Something as important as a warrant for the residence of a murder victim and the officer just makes up a story for the warrant. If that were the case and it could be proved then I would think the warrant could be declared as being obtained under false information and not allowed in court. Face it MF told the officers that the child was walking around. In my opinion later when that didn't make sense because of her clean condition she changed her story . Same as with the morning phone call that turned out to be afternoon. Not to mention her keys not being where she told LE she put them. This is just what we know from warrants. I would love to know in their many conversations with her just how many discrepancies there was.

I never said the officer made up a story. I said he provided information based upon his observations.

But speaking of things we know from the warrants, we know Jason changed clothes after arriving at the hotel, and those clothes are missing. We know Jason was having an affair with his wife's good friend, and that he only married Michelle because she was pregnant. We know he used a printout of a purse that was no longer available as an excuse to get Meredith to the house. We know Jason was late for his meeting that morning. We know Jason called his mother 28 times that morning. We know Jason did an internet search for gay bars and head trauma knockout. You're right - the SWs are very informative.

[mysterybuff]

I never said the officer made up a story. I said he provided information based upon his observations.

But speaking of things we know from the warrants, we know Jason changed clothes after arriving at the hotel, and those clothes are missing. We know Jason was having an affair with his wife's good friend, and that he only married Michelle because she was pregnant. We know he used a printout of a purse that was no longer available as an excuse to get Meredith to the house. We know Jason was late for his meeting that morning. We know Jason called his mother 28 times that morning. We know Jason did an internet search for gay bars and head trauma knockout. You're right - the SWs are very informative.

Great synopsis of major points, Cardinal. BTW, i thoroughly enjoy your posts.

[JHP]

I never said the officer made up a story. I said he provided information based upon his observations.

But speaking of things we know from the warrants, we know Jason changed clothes after arriving at the hotel, and those clothes are missing. We know Jason was having an affair with his wife's good friend, and that he only married Michelle because she was pregnant. We know he used a printout of a purse that was no longer available as an excuse to get Meredith to the house. We know Jason was late for his meeting that morning. We know Jason called his mother 28 times that morning. We know Jason did an internet search for gay bars and head trauma knockout. You're right - the SWs are very informative.

Good afternoon Cardinal, we did find out alot of interesting things from the recent S/W's. All of which IMO point to Jason.
It was also interesting to find out from Linda's custody filing about a mystery person that was staying with Jason the month before Michelle was killed.
I wonder if Jason will answer this latest suit? I cannot imagine he (or his family) will just give up Cassidy. But I was surprised with the Slayer Lawsuit.
What do you think?

[Cardinal]

You know JY had an affair. You know he wouldn't have married MY if she weren't expecting. You know according to MF that JY sent her to check on a print out. LE has not verified this. You have no idea if the shirt is missing or not. You have no idea who did the internet searches. You have no idea how many of those 28 calls were completed or dropped. You have no idea who wears a size 10 shoe. You have no idea if the child was walking around the house or in her daddy's bed. When you think about it we really don't know much do we?

And you have no idea whether or not Meredith told LE the child was walking around the house. A statement by her to that effect is not among any of the information that has been published. If you want to draw that inference and speculate about it, fine. But to state it as fact is incorrect.

No, we don't know much. But it seems to me that LE knows enough to continue to request and receive SWs that focus on Jason Young. Even the SW with the PC about the keys doesn't focus directly on Meredith. It's a SW for Michelle's SUV, that anyone could have driven, since Michelle's keys were apparently in plain sight on the kitchen counter. Including Jason, for that matter.

JMO

[Cardinal]

Great synopsis of major points, Cardinal. BTW, i thoroughly enjoy your posts.

Thanks, mysterybuff. I look forward to yours. :smile:

[Cardinal]

Good afternoon Cardinal, we did find out alot of interesting things from the recent S/W's. All of which IMO point to Jason.
It was also interesting to find out from Linda's custody filing about a mystery person that was staying with Jason the month before Michelle was killed.
I wonder if Jason will answer this latest suit? I cannot imagine he (or his family) will just give up Cassidy. But I was surprised with the Slayer Lawsuit.
What do you think?

Hi, JHP. Hope your Christmas was great!

I was really surprised by the mention of the mystery woman. But it reinforces my belief that there is a great deal of information about this case which has not been included in the PC for the SWs.

As for Jason responding to the custody suit, I can't imagine that he wouldn't - not if he wants to face his mother and sisters. But from my reading of the statutes, pleading the 5th won't do him much good in a custody suit. The bigger question is, IMO, will he submit to the psych evaluation and a deposition.

[enigma™]

confused, I did not know that kingbuff put you in charge of responding for him. I apologize for my confusion. That said, I shall now put you on ignore so that the discussion of the murder of Michelle and Rylan can continue without the board getting derailed by you issuing citations about rudeness. IMO

Why did Jason not call his land line on that fateful day? Was it because he did not want Cassidy to awaken from her drug induced sleep?

[JHP]

Hi, JHP. Hope your Christmas was great!

I was really surprised by the mention of the mystery woman. But it reinforces my belief that there is a great deal of information about this case which has not been included in the PC for the SWs.

As for Jason responding to the custody suit, I can't imagine that he wouldn't - not if he wants to face his mother and sisters. But from my reading of the statutes, pleading the 5th won't do him much good in a custody suit. The bigger question is, IMO, will he submit to the psych evaluation and a deposition.

It was thank you! I hope yours was great too.

I think he will respond also. But, I've been wrong before:wink:. I'm thinking he will speak as little as possible.
I think it will be telling as far as what attorney he has for this. Perhaps they will try to come to a custody arrangement before it goes to the Judge. Time will tell and it's ticking away.

JMO

[alter ego]

I just don't see anything in that SW that says Meredith told someone that Cassidy was walking around. An officer on the scene who saw the footprints in the bathroom could have concluded that Cassidy was walking around, and conveyed that information to the officer who wrote the SW. Nowhere in that warrant does it say that information came from a statement by Meredith.

In fact, since that same paragraph also references blood spatter on the wall and lamp, I think it's far more likely that the officer on the scene was providing information based upon his observations.

JMOI beg to differ
"This affiant makes this affidavit based on my personal knowledge together with information received from other persons this affiant believes to be credible.

...

The victim's sister came to the house and discovered the three year child of the victim walking inside the home. The sister entered the home and discovered the victim. The sister then called the sheriff's office."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085656/warrant1.swf

[alter ego]

And you have no idea whether or not Meredith told LE the child was walking around the house. A statement by her to that effect is not among any of the information that has been published. If you want to draw that inference and speculate about it, fine. But to state it as fact is incorrect.

No, we don't know much. But it seems to me that LE knows enough to continue to request and receive SWs that focus on Jason Young. Even the SW with the PC about the keys doesn't focus directly on Meredith. It's a SW for Michelle's SUV, that anyone could have driven, since Michelle's keys were apparently in plain sight on the kitchen counter. Including Jason, for that matter.

JMOWell, it's a fact Cassidy was found walking around the home by Meredith according the affiant who sworn under oath it was a fact.

Unless he lied.

The SWs are few and far between lately.

It's obvious that LE was pretty curious as to why Meredith told LE she placed her keys on the counter, per her usual custom, when in fact, her keys were on the hood of Michelle's vehicle. And it was Michelle's keys on the kitchen counter in the place where Meredith habitually placed her keys. It was the location of these keys coupled with the cleanliness of Cassidy that lead LE to suspect Michelle's vehicle was used to keep Cassidy away from the carnage in the master bedroom.

Unless they lied.

[Cardinal]

I beg to differ
"This affiant makes this affidavit based on my personal knowledge together with information received from other persons this affiant believes to be credible.

...

The victim's sister came to the house and discovered the three year child of the victim walking inside the home. The sister entered the home and discovered the victim. The sister then called the sheriff's office."

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085656/warrant1.swf

Hi, AE. I hope you had a great Christmas, too!

So tell me, which of the statements you quoted were based upon information received from other persons, and which were based upon the affiant's personal knowledge. And who were the other persons believed to be credible? Meredith, or other LE officers?

[Cardinal]

~snipped~

It's obvious that LE was pretty curious as to why Meredith told LE she placed her keys on the counter, per her usual custom, when in fact, her keys were on the hood of Michelle's vehicle. And it was Michelle's keys on the kitchen counter in the place where Meredith habitually placed her keys. It was the location of these keys coupled with the cleanliness of Cassidy that lead LE to suspect Michelle's vehicle was used to keep Cassidy away from the carnage in the master bedroom.

Unless they lied.

Or maybe LE was trying to determine where Michelle habitually put her keys and to clarify which set of keys were Michelle's. Without asking them, we don't know what they were trying to do.

[Silsbee]

I never said the officer made up a story. I said he provided information based upon his observations.

But speaking of things we know from the warrants, we know Jason changed clothes after arriving at the hotel, and those clothes are missing. We know Jason was having an affair with his wife's good friend, and that he only married Michelle because she was pregnant. We know he used a printout of a purse that was no longer available as an excuse to get Meredith to the house. We know Jason was late for his meeting that morning. We know Jason called his mother 28 times that morning. We know Jason did an internet search for gay bars and head trauma knockout. You're right - the SWs are very informative.

Hi Card,
Do we know for sure the clothes are missing? Do we know that he was planning on purchasing those particular purses? Why not find others that were expiring later if he was setting up an excuse? Do we know that Jason is the one that searched for gay bars and head trauma knockout?

I see all of the red flags others see but also see the fact that this info has not produced an arrest. Why can't they build a case around all of this so called damaging CE? I can look at this and see a defense lawyer tear this stuff apart so it must not be a strong as it appears when reading the SW.

Sils

PS Happy Holidays everyone!

[jerry50]

Good afternoon Cardinal, we did find out alot of interesting things from the recent S/W's. All of which IMO point to Jason.
It was also interesting to find out from Linda's custody filing about a mystery person that was staying with Jason the month before Michelle was killed.
I wonder if Jason will answer this latest suit? I cannot imagine he (or his family) will just give up Cassidy. But I was surprised with the Slayer Lawsuit.
What do you think?


Regarding the custody suit. Did anyone watch Dr Phil yesterday? It was aout brainwashing children by a hostile spouse. One father was wrongly accused by the wife that he sexually abused their daughter. He felt he could not win and ended up "kidnapping" his own children and was on the run with them--illegally--for two years before he was caught. He ended up with custody because the judge realized he was the loving parent. All the judge heard from the wife was how she hated the husband, how she talked badly to the children about their dad and how she never mentioned she missed the children while they were gone. It was all about revenge.
God bless Linda and Meredith for having the courage to fight for Cassidy and raise her as her beloved Mother intended. How will the Young's testify in the manner of how they kept Michelle's memory alive for her? Keeping her from her Mother's family is not a good way to start.

[jerry50]

Hi Card,
Do we know for sure the clothes are missing? Do we know that he was planning on purchasing those particular purses? Why not find others that were expiring later if he was setting up an excuse? Do we know that Jason is the one that searched for gay bars and head trauma knockout?

I see all of the red flags others see but also see the fact that this info has not produced an arrest. Why can't they build a case around all of this so called damaging CE? I can look at this and see a defense lawyer tear this stuff apart so it must not be a strong as it appears when reading the SW.

Sils

PS Happy Holidays everyone!

Hi Sils,

I see the same things you do but I think that LE is painstakingly going through each and every fact and researching who was home at the time and had the opportunity to use the computer, etc. This takes a lot of time and when the DA is assured that the CE points in only one direction there will be an arrest.
I think Linda's custody suit is an indication that an arrest is not too far off. When JY is in jail awaiting trial that little girl should be around family that love her.

[annalyzer]

I never said the officer made up a story. I said he provided information based upon his observations.

But speaking of things we know from the warrants, we know Jason changed clothes after arriving at the hotel, and those clothes are missing. We know Jason was having an affair with his wife's good friend, and that he only married Michelle because she was pregnant. We know he used a printout of a purse that was no longer available as an excuse to get Meredith to the house. We know Jason was late for his meeting that morning. We know Jason called his mother 28 times that morning. We know Jason did an internet search for gay bars and head trauma knockout. You're right - the SWs are very informative.


We also know that Meredith was so buddy buddy with Jason that she was counseling him on his relationship with Michelle. We know that Meredith lost an extreme amount of weight after the murder. Some of us believe that the 911 call is very odd. We know that Meredith's car keys were found on the top of Michelle's car and Meredith stated that she had laid her keys on the counter. Michelle's keys were on the counter. There is good reason to believe that someone stayed with the child after the murder and kept her out of her mom's room and cleaned her up. We know Jason sent MF over to the house to retrieve a document but we don't know if it was planned by the two of them, the "fluke". We know that there is discrepancies in MF's account of where the child was located when she first arrived and the amount of bloody footprints in the house. We know that LE has called this case "complicated". We know that for some reason Jason has not been arrested. :unsure:

[Cardinal]

Hi Card,
Do we know for sure the clothes are missing? Do we know that he was planning on purchasing those particular purses? Why not find others that were expiring later if he was setting up an excuse? Do we know that Jason is the one that searched for gay bars and head trauma knockout?

I see all of the red flags others see but also see the fact that this info has not produced an arrest. Why can't they build a case around all of this so called damaging CE? I can look at this and see a defense lawyer tear this stuff apart so it must not be a strong as it appears when reading the SW.

Sils

PS Happy Holidays everyone!

Hi, Sils,

I'm drawing the inference that the clothes were missing from Jason's vehicle and luggage when they were confiscated the night after the murder, because LE obtained a warrant to search for them in February 2008.

As for the expiration of the purse auctions - why would he be concerned about Michelle finding a printout of an expired auction?

And no, we don't know that Jason did those online searches, but the SW says the searches were done on "Jason Young's computer", not the "Youngs' computer" or the "home computer". I take that to mean they were done on the laptop that was seized from his vehicle - his work computer. Who else would have done those searches on his work computer?

And yes, all of this can be torn apart, and I've taken heat in the past for doing exactly that. As for building a case, AE posted a link a while ago to a case built on CE that was tossed on appeal, so maybe the DA is pushing harder to make sure that doesn't happen.

All JMO

Happy Holidays to you, too!

[Cardinal]

We also know that Meredith was so buddy buddy with Jason that she was counseling him on his relationship with Michelle. We know that Meredith lost an extreme amount of weight after the murder. Some of us believe that the 911 call is very odd. We know that Meredith's car keys were found on the top of Michelle's car and Meredith stated that she had laid her keys on the counter. Michelle's keys were on the counter. There is good reason to believe that someone stayed with the child after the murder and kept her out of her mom's room and cleaned her up. We know Jason sent MF over to the house to retrieve a document but we don't know if it was planned by the two of them, the "fluke". We know that there is discrepancies in MF's account of where the child was located when she first arrived and the amount of bloody footprints in the house. We know that LE has called this case "complicated". We know that for some reason Jason has not been arrested. :unsure:

Hi, Anna :seeya: I hope you and your lady had a good Christmas.

I won't argue strongly against anything you said, with the exception of the discrepancies in Meredith's account of Cassidy's location. The initial (within the first 24 hours) SWs are the only ones which mention Cassidy walking around, and there is nothing in them to substantiate that that came from Meredith as opposed to an officer on the scene.

I see you're still thinking that Meredith was Jason's accomplice?

[Silsbee]

Or maybe LE was trying to determine where Michelle habitually put her keys and to clarify which set of keys were Michelle's. Without asking them, we don't know what they were trying to do.

"Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints versus the clean condition of the child's feet when found; the confusion of the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen counter and Meredith's keys being found on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed the 2000 silver Lexus RX 300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene. If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance."

From this paragraph it sounds as if they wanted to know how Michelle's keys came to be placed on the kitchen counter where Meredith said she placed hers. They appear to be confused as to why Meredith's keys were not where she said they were. So what conclusions did they come up with since this SW was executed? There are no warrants (that we know of) to search Meredith's home. Also the description of property to be seized is blood or blood trace evidence. Why not fingerprints or other trace evidence to indicate who might of driven the car? Where was the seat positioned? Did they check to see if it was consistent with someone Michelle's height, Jason's height or even Meredith's height if they suspected she drove the car?

I would love to know what was concluded in regards to the confusion over how Meredith's keys ended up on Michelle's car.

Sils

[Silsbee]

Hi Sils,

I see the same things you do but I think that LE is painstakingly going through each and every fact and researching who was home at the time and had the opportunity to use the computer, etc. This takes a lot of time and when the DA is assured that the CE points in only one direction there will be an arrest.
I think Linda's custody suit is an indication that an arrest is not too far off. When JY is in jail awaiting trial that little girl should be around family that love her.

Hi jerry, I am no computer expert but shouldn't they be able to tell who did those searches at the time they found them? I would think the first indicator would be the time of day they were made but then they may have to do more extensive digging to be sure. I hope you're right and they are just trying to verify info. I would love to see this case go to trial and justice served for Michelle and Rylan.

Plus on a selfish note I want answers!

Sils

[Cardinal]

"Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints versus the clean condition of the child's feet when found; the confusion of the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen counter and Meredith's keys being found on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed the 2000 silver Lexus RX 300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene. If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance."

From this paragraph it sounds as if they wanted to know how Michelle's keys came to be placed on the kitchen counter where Meredith said she placed hers. They appear to be confused as to why Meredith's keys were not where she said they were. So what conclusions did they come up with since this SW was executed? There are no warrants (that we know of) to search Meredith's home. Also the description of property to be seized is blood or blood trace evidence. Why not fingerprints or other trace evidence to indicate who might of driven the car? Where was the seat positioned? Did they check to see if it was consistent with someone Michelle's height, Jason's height or even Meredith's height if they suspected she drove the car?

I would love to know what was concluded in regards to the confusion over how Meredith's keys ended up on Michelle's car.

Sils

Good catch, Sils! The statements you quoted make me think the Michelle's keys were not usually kept on the kitchen counter. And I'd love to know what they concluded, too.

Hmmm....if they were looking only for blood or blood trace evidence, that makes me think any fingerprints wouldn't be of value - maybe because they would belong to someone who had reason to have driven the car before.

But the seat positioning, etc. wouldn't be information that could be "seized" - just recorded. Would that be true for fingerprints also?

[enigma™]

Did Michelle's Lexus have a GPS system? Did LE remove the system, if it existed? Would that not be able to determine whether or not the vehicle had been driven after midnight, and how far?

[Silsbee]

We also know that Meredith was so buddy buddy with Jason that she was counseling him on his relationship with Michelle. We know that Meredith lost an extreme amount of weight after the murder. Some of us believe that the 911 call is very odd. We know that Meredith's car keys were found on the top of Michelle's car and Meredith stated that she had laid her keys on the counter. Michelle's keys were on the counter. There is good reason to believe that someone stayed with the child after the murder and kept her out of her mom's room and cleaned her up. We know Jason sent MF over to the house to retrieve a document but we don't know if it was planned by the two of them, the "fluke". We know that there is discrepancies in MF's account of where the child was located when she first arrived and the amount of bloody footprints in the house. We know that LE has called this case "complicated". We know that for some reason Jason has not been arrested. :unsure:

Hi Anna - all of the things you laid out are exactly why I am so stuck in limbo in regards to this case. The biggest thing for me is why can't they arrest this guy?? There is so much here that doesn't look good for him... but then you list all this other stuff and it makes me wonder what the heck is going on.

Sils

[Cardinal]

Did Michelle's Lexus have a GPS system? Did LE remove the system, if it existed? Would that not be able to determine whether or not the vehicle had been driven after midnight, and how far?

Ooooh.......and was the PC in the SW a convenient smokescreen to get the GPS system?

[annalyzer]

Hi, Anna :seeya: I hope you and your lady had a good Christmas.

I won't argue strongly against anything you said, with the exception of the discrepancies in Meredith's account of Cassidy's location. The initial (within the first 24 hours) SWs are the only ones which mention Cassidy walking around, and there is nothing in them to substantiate that that came from Meredith as opposed to an officer on the scene.

I see you're still thinking that Meredith was Jason's accomplice?


Hi Card. Hope you also had a nice Christmas. Me, I'm just glad it's over with. lol

Your last question ~ I am only looking at the possibilities.

[Silsbee]

Hi, Sils,

I'm drawing the inference that the clothes were missing from Jason's vehicle and luggage when they were confiscated the night after the murder, because LE obtained a warrant to search for them in February 2008.

As for the expiration of the purse auctions - why would he be concerned about Michelle finding a printout of an expired auction?

And no, we don't know that Jason did those online searches, but the SW says the searches were done on "Jason Young's computer", not the "Youngs' computer" or the "home computer". I take that to mean they were done on the laptop that was seized from his vehicle - his work computer. Who else would have done those searches on his work computer?

And yes, all of this can be torn apart, and I've taken heat in the past for doing exactly that. As for building a case, AE posted a link a while ago to a case built on CE that was tossed on appeal, so maybe the DA is pushing harder to make sure that doesn't happen.

All JMO

Happy Holidays to you, too!

Hi again Card - Was it just me or did the site go down for a little while?

I was trying to respond and couldn't. I hadn't thought about the computer being his laptop - that is certainly a possibility and more damaging than if the searches were done on the home computer. I think that if he was really considering the purse as a gift - any pictures would be a concern for Michelle to see. It is possible that he was just printing them out as a guide on the style, etc. I have done that before myself. As for the clothes I am still wondering about that - I haven't seen a clear indication that they are missing only that LE hasn't found them. I am concerned it took them over a year to look in the first place.

Sils

[jerry50]

Hi jerry, I am no computer expert but shouldn't they be able to tell who did those searches at the time they found them? I would think the first indicator would be the time of day they were made but then they may have to do more extensive digging to be sure. I hope you're right and they are just trying to verify info. I would love to see this case go to trial and justice served for Michelle and Rylan.

Plus on a selfish note I want answers!

Sils

Veryifying may include looking at work schedules, credit card statements, phone calls and pings if available. This would be very time consuming and it may involve numerous occurances.
Considering the horrific sight of the bludgeoned pregnant victim I am sure that the DA wants to get it right the first time because he will not have a second time.

[Silsbee]

Good catch, Sils! The statements you quoted make me think the Michelle's keys were not usually kept on the kitchen counter. And I'd love to know what they concluded, too.

Hmmm....if they were looking only for blood or blood trace evidence, that makes me think any fingerprints wouldn't be of value - maybe because they would belong to someone who had reason to have driven the car before.

But the seat positioning, etc. wouldn't be information that could be "seized" - just recorded. Would that be true for fingerprints also?

See I was thinking the same thing about the fingerprints too. But that also concerns me - shouldn't they be looking anyway so that a defense attorney cannot bring it up later? I want to see a thorough investigation done even if they believe it is Jason - let's be sure.

Seat positioning - I think that is something they can look at but do they need to state on the SW what they intend to look for? I'm not sure.

Sils

[Silsbee]

Did Michelle's Lexus have a GPS system? Did LE remove the system, if it existed? Would that not be able to determine whether or not the vehicle had been driven after midnight, and how far?

I also wondered this too enigma - but a 2000 it may not have. I did a search a while back but can't remember if I was able to find anything - going to look again.

Sils

[Cardinal]

Hi again Card - Was it just me or did the site go down for a little while?

I was trying to respond and couldn't. I hadn't thought about the computer being his laptop - that is certainly a possibility and more damaging than if the searches were done on the home computer. I think that if he was really considering the purse as a gift - any pictures would be a concern for Michelle to see. It is possible that he was just printing them out as a guide on the style, etc. I have done that before myself. As for the clothes I am still wondering about that - I haven't seen a clear indication that they are missing only that LE hasn't found them. I am concerned it took them over a year to look in the first place.

Sils

Hi, Sils. I'm in and out today, so I don't know if the site locked up or not. Glad you're back though!

The clothes - I think if LE had them, they would either rule Jason out or he'd be in jail. Especially the Hushpuppies. I think LE didn't find the clothes or shoes in his luggage or vehicle, and thought that would be enough. I think the DA or the SBI decided to be thorough and issue the Feb 07 warrants to look for them.

The purse printouts - honestly, I find that whole scenario a little hokey. Why would a man who demonstrated so little regard for his pregnant wife as to sleep with her "good friend" and allegedly bring another lover into their home go to that much trouble to buy her a purse?

[annalyzer]

Hi, Sils. I'm in and out today, so I don't know if the site locked up or not. Glad you're back though!

The clothes - I think if LE had them, they would either rule Jason out or he'd be in jail. Especially the Hushpuppies. I think LE didn't find the clothes or shoes in his luggage or vehicle, and thought that would be enough. I think the DA or the SBI decided to be thorough and issue the Feb 07 warrants to look for them.

The purse printouts - honestly, I find that whole scenario a little hokey. Why would a man who demonstrated so little regard for his pregnant wife as to sleep with her "good friend" and allegedly bring another lover into their home go to that much trouble to buy her a purse?


I agree about the purse scenario. I don't believe it for a minute.

[Silsbee]

Hi, Sils. I'm in and out today, so I don't know if the site locked up or not. Glad you're back though!

The clothes - I think if LE had them, they would either rule Jason out or he'd be in jail. Especially the Hushpuppies. I think LE didn't find the clothes or shoes in his luggage or vehicle, and thought that would be enough. I think the DA or the SBI decided to be thorough and issue the Feb 07 warrants to look for them.

The purse printouts - honestly, I find that whole scenario a little hokey. Why would a man who demonstrated so little regard for his pregnant wife as to sleep with her "good friend" and allegedly bring another lover into their home go to that much trouble to buy her a purse?

I hope the decision to go back doesn't hurt the case in the long run because to me it looks a little sloppy. A defense attorney will take the fact that a year passed before they looked for those items - plenty of time for the items to be discarded for very innocent reasons. If he really is guilty I hope they have enough to dispel any doubts from jurors minds because at the moment I see where a lawyer can show plenty of doubt.

I think you're right about the printouts in regards to the whole gift for Michelle scenario. It does appear to be a stretch. But this also comes back to why set a scenario that isn't even believable in the first place. Once again it makes no sense for a man who is in a 3 month affair with his wife's best friend (admittedly to friends) to plan to kill his wife. I know it happens - stupid criminals and all - but how is it he half heartedly planned this and was able to pull it off for so long?


Sils

[annalyzer]

It was not "sloppy" waiting > a year to execute a SW in Brevard.
If you followed the case closely, you would realize LE did not get an FBI match for his Hush Puppy Orbitals until January 2008. This provided the main probable cause for the 2/08 Brevard SW's.

And when did they turn it over to the FBI to get the match?

[Cardinal]

I agree about the purse scenario. I don't believe it for a minute.

So if the purse scenario isn't believable, then what about the phone call to Meredith? Do you really think Jason cared whether or not Michelle found that printout?

And, for the sake of argument, if the purse scenario were something "cooked up" between Jason and Meredith, why that? Jason had tried to call Michelle's cell and had tried to call her at work - exactly 15 minutes apart, and over an hour before he called Meredith. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the story to be that Jason hadn't heard from Michelle and was worried about her? And along those same lines, if he hadn't been able to reach her cell or work number, why didn't he (as someone else asked) try to call the land line at home before sending Meredith over there to retrieve the printout? Or, more believably, to further reinforce the story that he was worried about her?

[Cardinal]

I hope the decision to go back doesn't hurt the case in the long run because to me it looks a little sloppy. A defense attorney will take the fact that a year passed before they looked for those items - plenty of time for the items to be discarded for very innocent reasons. If he really is guilty I hope they have enough to dispel any doubts from jurors minds because at the moment I see where a lawyer can show plenty of doubt.

I think you're right about the printouts in regards to the whole gift for Michelle scenario. It does appear to be a stretch. But this also comes back to why set a scenario that isn't even believable in the first place. Once again it makes no sense for a man who is in a 3 month affair with his wife's best friend (admittedly to friends) to plan to kill his wife. I know it happens - stupid criminals and all - but how is it he half heartedly planned this and was able to pull it off for so long?


Sils

Overwhelming arrogance and sealed lips? I don't know, Sils. There are still pieces of this that don't fit for me. And you're right that a good defense attorney could pick this apart. Heck, the posters here can!

But I also think, especially based upon the other information in the custody suit, that there is a lot of information we haven't seen.

[annalyzer]

snipped ~ Do you really think Jason cared whether or not Michelle found that printout?




Nope, not I. I believe it was just part of the plan. Whether or not anyone was in on the plan is yet to be seen. Plans can and do sometimes go wrong.

[Cardinal]

Nope, not I. I believe it was just part of the plan. Whether or not anyone was in on the plan is yet to be seen. Plans can and do sometimes go wrong.

Well IF Meredith were Jason's accomplice, the custody suit should blow that sky high. Which makes me think...if she were, it would make much more sense for her to have stayed out of the custody suit and let Linda file alone.

JMO

[annalyzer]

Well IF Meredith were Jason's accomplice, the custody suit should blow that sky high. Which makes me think...if she were, it would make much more sense for her to have stayed out of the custody suit and let Linda file alone.

JMO

I can't wait for the custody hearing. :unsure:

[Silsbee]

It was not "sloppy" waiting > a year to execute a SW in Brevard.
If you followed the case closely, you would realize LE did not get an FBI match for his Hush Puppy Orbitals until January 2008. This provided the main probable cause for the 2/08 Brevard SW's.

I said it looks (as in appears to me) to be sloppy - maybe they have an explanation that will satisfy a jury. I don't think it took them a year to receive the video from the hotel. I believe they knew what clothes Jason was wearing very early on - they did not need to wait for the FBI to identify anything at all. What was stopping them from looking at all of Jason's shoes to see if there was a match? I don't see that as a valid reason for waiting to investigate if Jason still had the clothes he was wearing in the hotel video.

Sils

[Silsbee]

So if the purse scenario isn't believable, then what about the phone call to Meredith? Do you really think Jason cared whether or not Michelle found that printout?

And, for the sake of argument, if the purse scenario were something "cooked up" between Jason and Meredith, why that? Jason had tried to call Michelle's cell and had tried to call her at work - exactly 15 minutes apart, and over an hour before he called Meredith. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the story to be that Jason hadn't heard from Michelle and was worried about her? And along those same lines, if he hadn't been able to reach her cell or work number, why didn't he (as someone else asked) try to call the land line at home before sending Meredith over there to retrieve the printout? Or, more believably, to further reinforce the story that he was worried about her?

All very good questions.

Sils

[Jester]

Thats one version . Here's another one in this version she was walking around in the house. I guess you can believe which ever one you want. They both are part of public records and if this ever gets to trial you can bet MF is going to have to decide which version she wants to go with.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2006/12/08/1085656/warrant1.swf

I know that it has been your wish to cast suspicion on Meredith, for the last two years, in an effort to take the focus off of Young. I have never seen any information that supports your theory. If a misplaced set of keys is sufficient for you to assume guilt, yet Young's DNA in the blood on the wall is not, then we must have different standards of what constitutes guilt.

[alter ego]

Or maybe LE was trying to determine where Michelle habitually put her keys and to clarify which set of keys were Michelle's. Without asking them, we don't know what they were trying to do.:confused: The SW is pretty clear that they thought the keys on the counter were Meredith's because she told them she put her keys there. It's also pretty clear they were unsure whose keys were on the hood of Michelle's car until the revelation (LE's word, not mine) that those keys were in fact Meredith's keys and the keys on the kitchen counter were Michelle's.

[alter ego]

Hi, AE. I hope you had a great Christmas, too!

So tell me, which of the statements you quoted were based upon information received from other persons, and which were based upon the affiant's personal knowledge. And who were the other persons believed to be credible? Meredith, or other LE officers?
I did, and I hope you also had a great Christmas!!

I'm not seeing how it matters as the only way LE would know where Cassidy was found and what she was doing would be from Meredith herself. Whether she told the affiant herself or if it's hearsay is beside the point as she told someone that for it to find it's way into a sworn affidavit as a fact to support PC. They can't just make stuff up out of whole cloth and then swear to a judge that it's true.

[Cardinal]

:confused: The SW is pretty clear that they thought the keys on the counter were Meredith's because she told them she put her keys there. It's also pretty clear they were unsure whose keys were on the hood of Michelle's car until the revelation (LE's word, not mine) that those keys were in fact Meredith's keys and the keys on the kitchen counter were Michelle's.

But was the point that Michelle's keys were on the counter, a place they weren't usually kept, based on the part of the SW that Silsbee quoted earlier?

[Cardinal]

I did, and I hope you also had a great Christmas!!

I'm not seeing how it matters as the only way LE would know where Cassidy was found and what she was doing would be from Meredith herself. Whether she told the affiant herself or if it's hearsay is beside the point as she told someone that for it to find it's way into a sworn affidavit as a fact to support PC. They can't just make stuff up out of whole cloth and then swear to a judge that it's true.

I had a wonderful Christmas, thanks, AE.

I never said anyone made anything up. I said that, based upon the child's footprints in the bathroom, the officer phoning in for the SW could easily have concluded that the child had been walking around.

Isn't that what the first officers on the scene do? Draw conclusions based upon what they see?

[MerriMent]

It was not "sloppy" waiting > a year to execute a SW in Brevard.
If you followed the case closely, you would realize LE did not get an FBI match for his Hush Puppy Orbitals until January 2008. This provided the main probable cause for the 2/08 Brevard SW's.

Silsbee and quite a few of us have apparently followed the case much more closely than you.

LE waited over a year to look for a shirt seen on a security video they obtained within days of the murder. The significant delay absolutely reflects a sloppy investigation by LE, imo.

[MerriMent]

Well IF Meredith were Jason's accomplice, the custody suit should blow that sky high. Which makes me think...if she were, it would make much more sense for her to have stayed out of the custody suit and let Linda file alone.

JMO

After reading the custody complaint, I don't believe Jason was Meredith's accomplice.

[Cardinal]

After reading the custody complaint, I don't believe Jason was Meredith's accomplice.

No? Who, in your theory, was Meredith's accomplice?

[MerriMent]

I had a wonderful Christmas, thanks, AE.

I never said anyone made anything up. I said that, based upon the child's footprints in the bathroom, the officer phoning in for the SW could easily have concluded that the child had been walking around.

Isn't that what the first officers on the scene do? Draw conclusions based upon what they see?

They do include their own observations such as the one that the child wasn't bloody. If the child wasn't bloody, and Meredith said she was found in the bed, why would LE conclude Cassidy was "walking around" when Meredith arrived?

It is what it is: another conflicting statement made by Meredith Fisher to various members of LE.

[Silsbee]

Could you make out the shoe brand in the security photos ?

Yes, they knew full well the dark pullover was missing from his luggage. They confirmed early on from his mother it was not shed, stowed or discarded in Brevard.

Did you actually think the cops thought they may find the shoes and shirt in Brevard :confused:
They thought they may have lucked up on a hidden diamond ring. The clothing was nothing more than a way to confirm they didn't exist so he can't magically produce at trial.:wink:

I wasn't thinking about the brand of shoe - I was thinking about the fact that they had the shoe print in blood and that could have been compared to shoes Jason owned at the time of the murder. IIRC they only took his foot impressions not impressions of shoes he owned. It doesn't matter if they thought they would find them in Brevard or not - they didn't bother to look until a year after the crime. If they did not find the items in his luggage early on then to me the logical next step would be to confirm Mrs. Young's recollection by looking in her home or other places Jason may have stayed after the murder.

It is my opinion that this does not look good in front of a jury. Confirming the clothes didn't exist until a full year later is something a defense lawyer will use at trial to show reasonable doubt. It would have carried more weight if they were able to say right after the murder the clothes were nowhere to be found. I don't pretend to know what LE has to support why they waited - I am just saying it concerns me, this and other appearances of missteps by LE could cause problems if brought to trial.

What are you talking about - a hidden diamond ring??

Sils

PS: So far there has been no info that states the Hush Puppies Jason owned were a match to the prints in blood in the home.

[MerriMent]

No? Who, in your theory, was Meredith's accomplice?

someone Meredith hired.

[kingbuff]

Could you make out the shoe brand in the security photos ?

Yes, they knew full well the dark pullover was missing from his luggage. They confirmed early on from his mother it was not shed, stowed or discarded in Brevard.

Did you actually think the cops thought they may find the shoes and shirt in Brevard :confused:
They thought they may have lucked up on a hidden diamond ring. The clothing was nothing more than a way to confirm they didn't exist so he can't magically produce at trial.:wink:

This sounds like opinion so I'll add mine. No one knew the police were searching for a shirt until Feb. 14, 2008. They never asked. They never really searched for a ring or clothing. They brought a specialist to put a tap on the phone in Jason's room. The judge wouldn't allow them to tap Mrs. Young's calls.

[Cardinal]

They do include their own observations such as the one that the child wasn't bloody. If the child wasn't bloody, and Meredith said she was found in the bed, why would LE conclude Cassidy was "walking around" when Meredith arrived?

It is what it is: another conflicting statement made by Meredith Fisher to various members of LE.

Because the officer who called in for the SW hadn't talked to Meredith, and was giving PC over the phone based solely upon his observations.

And you can't know any differently.

JMO

[Cardinal]

someone Meredith hired.

Ah, so now it's premeditated on Meredith's part? And the motive is?

[Cardinal]

This sounds like opinion so I'll add mine. No one knew the police were searching for a shirt until Feb. 14, 2008. They never asked. They never really searched for a ring or clothing. They brought a specialist to put a tap on the phone in Jason's room. The judge wouldn't allow them to tap Mrs. Young's calls.

If that's true, then I look forward to the results of that tap.

[MerriMent]

Because the officer who called in for the SW hadn't talked to Meredith, and was giving PC over the phone based solely upon his observations.

And you can't know any differently.

JMO

Not only can I know differently, the facts don't support your lame spin.

FACT: Meredith spoke to LE prior to LE obtaining the search warrant.
FACT: The officer who obtained the search warrant didn't observe Cassidy Young walking around the house because he wasn't there when Meredith arrived. LE later concluded Cassidy wasn't walking around the house because there was not a trail of bloody footprints leading to that bathroom door.
FACT: LE didn't know who the footprints in the bathroom belonged to because they didn't observe blood on Cassidy. Footprints in a bath don't lead to to a conclusion the child was walking around when Meredith arrived.
FACT: LE asked Meredith where she found Cassidy. That's the only way they could possibly know where she was when Meredith arrived and apparently Meredith told different LE different stories. That's her problem and it is going to be a big one at her trial. JMO

[Cardinal]

Not only can I know differently, the facts don't support your lame spin.

FACT: Meredith spoke to LE prior to LE obtaining the search warrant.
FACT: The officer who obtained the search warrant didn't observe Cassidy Young walking around the house because he wasn't there when Meredith arrived. LE later concluded Cassidy wasn't walking around the house because there was not a trail of bloody footprints leading to that bathroom door.
FACT: LE didn't know who the footprints in the bathroom belonged to because they didn't observe blood on Cassidy. Footprints in a bath don't lead to to a conclusion the child was walking around when Meredith arrived.
FACT: LE asked Meredith where she found Cassidy. That's the only way they could possibly know where she was when Meredith arrived and apparently Meredith told different LE different stories. That's her problem and it is going to be a big one at her trial. JMO

Since all of these things are FACTS, please provide a link. Otherwise, please restate them as your opinion.

[MerriMent]

Ah, so now it's premeditated on Meredith's part? And the motive is?

I see several although none is needed.

[Cardinal]

I head Ms.Young will eventually be named an accessory after the fact :wink:

I honestly hope that isn't the case. Her life will never be the same as it is, and I imagine her "good name" in the community has meant something to her. I really hope that her understandable support of her son doesn't cost her more than it already has.

[Cardinal]

I see several although none is needed.

No? The jury will want a motive. Please, share the several with us.

[Cardinal]

JY's DNA was on the wall. Nothing has ever been said about it being in blood. If his DNA was in blood I can't believe there wouldn't have been an arrest a long time ago. Also who's DNA is it on the jewelery box? LE doesn't know.

Don't they?

[MerriMent]

Since all of these things are FACTS, please provide a link. Otherwise, please restate them as your opinion.

These are all facts that are substantiated by search warrants that have been linked repeatedly.

[MerriMent]

No? The jury will want a motive. Please, share the several with us.

The most obvious one is she wants Cassidy.

[Cardinal]

These are all facts that are substantiated by search warrants that have been linked repeatedly.

Riiiight.

Why didn't you just say you couldn't substantiate your "facts"?

[Cardinal]

The most obvious one is she wants Cassidy.

If that's her motive, she would have needed to kill Jason and Heather too. Since the will has a request that Heather have guardianship in the event both Michelle and Jason are deceased.

What are the "others"?

[MerriMent]

Riiiight.

Why didn't you just say you couldn't substantiate your "facts"?

The search warrants do substantiate my facts.

[annalyzer]

After reading the custody complaint, I don't believe Jason was Meredith's accomplice.




Why? btw you have never thought Jason was involved have you?

[MerriMent]

If that's her motive, she would have needed to kill Jason and Heather too. Since the will has a request that Heather have guardianship in the event both Michelle and Jason are deceased.

What are the "others"?

Kill Jason? He wasn't there. Another way to get Jason out of the picture would be to get Jason arrested and convicted of a crime he didn't commit.

[MerriMent]

Why? btw you have never thought Jason was involved have you?

Actually, in the beginning, I did think Jason was involved.

[Cardinal]

Kill Jason? He wasn't there. Another way to get Jason out of the picture would be to get Jason arrested and convicted of a crime he didn't commit.

Then you must think the outcome of the custody case is a sure thing - to satisfy Meredith's "motive".

[Cardinal]

Hi Merriment, It seems some don't think the PC's on the warrants are any more that something LE made up. So when they see a fact they dismiss it as more LE propaganda.

So you think the PC has validity? All of it, or just the PC in the one SW for Michelle's SUV?

[Cardinal]

I don't think there was a motive. I think it was a cat fight that got out of hand. I think what will hang MF is the fact about the car keys. If any one else was with her it was the BF and he is long gone to my understanding. If anyone else had driven that car her keys wouldn't have been on the hood . So she had to be the driver.

So what do you think she changed into from the clothes she was wearing to commit the murder? Since we've not heard of any trace evidence being found in Michelle's SUV.

[MerriMent]

I don't think there was a motive. I think it was a cat fight that got out of hand. I think what will hang MF is the fact about the car keys. If any one else was with her it was the BF and he is long gone to my understanding. If anyone else had driven that car her keys wouldn't have been on the hood . So she had to be the driver.

I think Meredith's cohort was a lowlife acquaintence

[Cardinal]

I think Meredith's cohort was a lowlife acquaintence

Some lowlife who didn't steal the electronics?