Michelle Young - Dec. 22 thru Jan. 1

[bookie]

You have twisted my words completely. I said, an innocent man would have thought it odd that his MIL was calling him, and answered the phone after four calls from her. We have heard they don't get along and it was stated in the search warrant that it was not the norm for Linda Fisher to call Jason Young. Since she called him not once but FOUR times and left a voice message (undoubtedly she must have sounded upset, like something was very wrong) he had to KNOW something was wrong (he sure did know, thats why he ignored her call) So, if your MIL who never calls you is now calling you four times in a short amount of time, you would KNOW something must be up, and if not then her voice mail I am sure made that very obvious.
How you got the idea you posted from what I wrote is beyond me, and frankly sounds and smells like BAIT.



Or maybe he could have thought she found out about the affiar with MM and wanted to avoid the confrontation he thought was coming.

[Kat4Eagles]

Whatever the reason for the non-response, I doesn't make Jason look good in the public eye.

At least in my opinion.


Of course, Jason does not look good these days.

I can't defend most of his behavior or actions after some of the stuff that has come out.

But, I want more. the video would help though.:)

Seriously,I would need concrete evidence that puts Jason back in Raleigh that nite/am to convince me.

Kat
ETA.........
It could very well be that the time of death could be the complicated part!

[alter ego]

Whatever the reason for the non-response, I doesn't make Jason look good in the public eye.

At least in my opinion.He didn't look so good in the public eye before the WDS filing.

NCWanted took care of that with their tabloid reporting.

[Hey Paula]

Another person accusing someone of murder in a tort filing is quite different from the State filing charges. I was referring to the State making accusations, but yes, you are correct - Jason's atty did not respond to the WDS, not even to deny the charges.

On one hand, I understand the reasoning behind the non response. On the other, I am completely baffled by it.

I am completely baffled by it, i.e., if JY is innocent. In fact, I don't understand the reasoning behind the non response at all, if JY were truly innocent.

Why do you think a non response was wise?

[alter ego]

snip

It could very well be that the time of death could be the complicated part!

Based on subsequent SW's, the initial and critical investigation appears to have been flawed. No point of measurement reference in the photos of the bathroom depicting foot prints in blood. No FE analysis of the furniture in the bedroom. No accounting for all of Michelle's teeth.

[alter ego]

I am completely baffled by it, i.e., if JY is innocent. In fact, I don't understand the reasoning behind the non response at all, if JY were truly innocent.

Why do you think a non response was wise?
It prevents LE from taking a back door around Jason's constitutionally protected right to silence by feeding questions to Linda's atty to ask during a depo.

[Hey Paula]

It prevents LE from taking a back door around Jason's constitutionally protected right to silence by feeding questions to Linda's atty to ask during a depo.

I know, but if JY were innocent, why wouldn't he want to answer questions to prove his innocence? A civil suit doesn't carry criminal charges for which JY could have been incarcerated.

I've always felt the LIP would cause problems for JY, whether he claimed it or not. Either way, it was a lose/lose situation for him.

[alter ego]

The warrants did it for me. The affair with MM, all the calls to his mother, etc.I think they did it for a lot of people, but they haven't swayed the DA yet.

[alter ego]

I know, but if JY were innocent, why wouldn't he want to answer questions to prove his innocence? A civil suit doesn't carry criminal charges for which JY could have been incarcerated.

I've always felt the LIP would cause problems for JY, whether he claimed it or not. Either way, it was a lose/lose situation for him.
Because everything you say will be held against you. Innocent or not, LE only wants you to incriminate yourself, especially as in this case, where you have a lead detective who is of the opinion you are guilty. And short of denial, there is nothing Jason could say that would convince someone who is already of the opinion he is guilty that he is not.

[Doorbell]

Because everything you say will be held against you. Innocent or not, LE only wants you to incriminate yourself, especially as in this case, where you have a lead detective who is of the opinion you are guilty. And short of denial, there is nothing Jason could say that would convince someone who is already of the opinion he is guilty that he is not.

I'm of the opinion he is guilty. Time will prove me correct.

[kingbuff]

I know, but if JY were innocent, why wouldn't he want to answer questions to prove his innocence? A civil suit doesn't carry criminal charges for which JY could have been incarcerated.

I've always felt the LIP would cause problems for JY, whether he claimed it or not. Either way, it was a lose/lose situation for him.

He answered the only relevant question: where were you the night Michelle was killed?

After that, any thing else he could say would be an attempt to prove a negative.

[alter ego]

I'm of the opinion he is guilty. Time will prove me correct.

Or not. :shrug:

Why do you think the DA has not sought an indictment?

[Doorbell]

Or not. :shrug:

Why do you think the DA has not sought an indictment?

Like you, I think they would like to have a witness who saw him at the scene. I think that, eventually, they will go with what they have, but they obviously think they can get something else.

It took several years to bring Ann Miller to trial, so I think the DA may be just very cautious.

IMO

[alter ego]

Or maybe he could have thought she found out about the affiar with MM and wanted to avoid the confrontation he thought was coming.
Yeah!

Or he simply didn't want to talk her because he just didn't want to talk to her - then or ever.

I know for a fact my spouse wouldn't return a call from a MIL. Not in a bazillion years.

[alter ego]

Like you, I think they would like to have a witness who saw him at the scene. I think that, eventually, they will go with what they have, but they obviously think they can get something else.

It took several years to bring Ann Miller to trial, so I think the DA may be just very cautious.

IMOWith all the wrongful convictions from faulty eyewitness testimony, I would find it unusual for a DA to want such an eye witness. In the current world of forensics, they should be able to place him at the scene at the time of injury via FE. Specifically, carpet fiber from the hotel in the bedroom of his house.

I think it all goes back to whether the evidence goes beyond raising suspicion, even strong suspicion, and actually proves the elements of murder.

[Hey Paula]

Or not. :shrug:

Why do you think the DA has not sought an indictment?

I've seen cases successfully prosecuted on less CE than what we've thus far seen in this case. I imagine LE has even more evidence which hasn't been made public - in fact, Det Spivey has said as much.

We will eventually learn why LE/DA has decided to delay indicting JY. I still feel they are allowing the civil matters to play out first.

Can the Prosecutor can use JY's non response in the WDS, and that JY didn't claim the proceeds from Michelle's policy as CE in the criminal trial?

[annalyzer]

I've seen cases successfully prosecuted on less CE than what we've thus far seen in this case. I imagine LE has even more evidence which hasn't been made public - in fact, Det Spivey has said as much.

We will eventually learn why LE/DA has decided to delay indicting JY. I still feel they are allowing the civil matters to play out first.

Can the Prosecutor can use JY's non response in the WDS, and that JY didn't claim the proceeds from Michelle's policy as CE in the criminal trial?


You'd think an arrest or even better a conviction would only greatly help the civil matters though.

[Jester]

Amanda Lamb reported it.

Was that shortly after she was buried? Did anyone notice whether he was dancing a jig?

[Jester]

Jason even stayed around Raleigh after the murder in which time he visited Michelle's grave.

I have no idea about the headstone, but I do know LF has filed a suit in which she wants to be compensated for all expenses.

Kat

Good for her. Michelle's mother should be compensated if Young has neglected to take responsibility for expenses related to Michelle's murder.

[annalyzer]

In reading the latest posts here and elsewhere I think there are two things that is keeping these forums open. The love for JY and the hate for JY. I think the victim MY took a back seat to the hate for JY a long time ago. There must be some one on here that knew her and yet you never see any one with a story of something they did with her. No shopping trip stories. No party stories. Oh we saw where she locked JY out of the motel room. That wasn't a very happy story. Did she never do fun things? Did she not take shopping trips with her friends? In my opinion we have lost the meaning of the MY forums and turned it into the bash JY forums. The friends that knew JY have said very little in public but they have chose to come on these forums with their ugly stories. Maybe JY peed himself at a party and sat naked. Maybe he didn't. But surely there were people around when JY and MY had fun. Or maybe not. Maybe their marriage was void of any fun and that is what sent JY to other women and MY to a therapist. How sad that both young lives turned out this way. I guess if there is a lesson here its to choose carefully whom you marry and girls don't get pregnant.


Watching Michelle in that video of her with Cassidy riding her little car makes me believe she was a fun loving person. She always had a big beautiful smile. Maybe it was just Jason. Can't be much fun being married to a triple two timing cheater.

[Hey Paula]

You'd think an arrest or even better a conviction would only greatly help the civil matters though.


While an arrest and conviction would settle the civil matters, I think each action and non action, on JY's part, adds more CE to the criminal case being built against JY. And the criminal trial is the only way for justice to be served for Michelle and Rylan, so it takes precedence over civil matters. In such a heinous case as this, where a young pregnant mother is so savagely beaten with her toddler in the house for so many hours with her mother's corpse, I think the DA would want to amass as much CE against JY as they can to comfortably secure a conviction.

IMO

[alter ego]

I've seen cases successfully prosecuted on less CE than what we've thus far seen in this case. I imagine LE has even more evidence which hasn't been made public - in fact, Det Spivey has said as much.

We will eventually learn why LE/DA has decided to delay indicting JY. I still feel they are allowing the civil matters to play out first.

Can the Prosecutor can use JY's non response in the WDS, and that JY didn't claim the proceeds from Michelle's policy as CE in the criminal trial?I've read opinions reversing convictions with more CE than this case has. Of course there is more evidence that hasn't been made public - but even with all of it, the DA has not sought an indictment.

The DA said the civil matters have no bearing on the investigation.

Not if it was under advice of counsel. Unless JY was to bring it up at trial, then it's fair game for the DA to persue.

[forpsystudent]

[QUOTE=kingbuff;12593506]Lights, camera, action! In the Age of Media, if it doesn't happen in front of a camera, it didn't happen. How cynical we have become! Our gene pool is indubitably shallow. The superficial is king.[/QUOTE

Indeed, your "Highness."

[Doorbell]

[QUOTE=kingbuff;12593506]Lights, camera, action! In the Age of Media, if it doesn't happen in front of a camera, it didn't happen. How cynical we have become! Our gene pool is indubitably shallow. The superficial is king.[/QUOTE

Indeed, your "Highness."

Forpsy!

Yup. The :cursing:worthy one is rearing his head.

[forpsystudent]

[QUOTE=forpsystudent;12594703]

Forpsy!

Yup. The :cursing:worthy one is rearing his head.


So it seems.
I've been told that he holds me in high esteem.
Sure doesn't look like it, huh?
Guess my sources are wrong.
Maybe I was just too ready to believe my own publicity.
Shame on me.
Hello to all by the way
Hope everyone's holidays were good.

[daddydidit]

If you read in the custody suit, that L F filed, it was explained that the visit only came about after some type of mediation.

It stated that there was great tension existing between them.

I guess if you accuse someone of murder that happens.

:rolleyes:

Kat


Or if you murder someone's daughter, that might happen.

:rolleyes:

[Cardinal]

Hi KB.....

We have heard that Jason cried uncontrollably when told of the news of Michelle'e murder.

~snipped~

Kat

Hi, Kat. :seeya: Hope your Christmas was lovely.

You made me think - why would Jason cry uncontrollably? Obviously, he wasn't committed to Michelle. She apparently wasn't his soulmate or the center of his universe. (I think he was grooming MM for that role.) In fact, it's arguable that he didn't even like her. He certainly complained about her perceived shortcomings to anyone within earshot, according to the SWs.

So why would he cry uncontrollably - or at all, for that matter?

[Kat4Eagles]

Like you, I think they would like to have a witness who saw him at the scene. I think that, eventually, they will go with what they have, but they obviously think they can get something else.

It took several years to bring Ann Miller to trial, so I think the DA may be just very cautious.

IMO


See, that is another thing!!

People keep saying this case will be as famous as the Ann Miller case, or the David Temple case, and I never even heard of either of them. until they were mentioned here.

I keep reading how once the trial starts this case will be huge and attract national media attention.

:no:
Not gonna happen.

The whole nation is riveted on the Caylee Anthony case and will be for a very, very long time.

Which does not mean that justice for Michelle Young or any other murder victim is not warranted, this just won't be that big of a case, only maybe in NC...

It will never be another Laci/Scott Peterson case no matter how hard some people try to make it into one.

Look at the Nancy Cooper case, she rarely gets mentioned at all.

:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Or if you murder someone's daughter, that might happen.

:rolleyes:


It might be nice if that were proven first though, you think?

Kat

[jerry50]

Another person accusing someone of murder in a tort filing is quite different from the State filing charges. I was referring to the State making accusations, but yes, you are correct - Jason's atty did not respond to the WDS, not even to deny the charges.

On one hand, I understand the reasoning behind the non response. On the other, I am completely baffled by it.

Do you think he has an attorney? You would think that an attorney would have at least advised him to answer the suit. It's so easy to delay depositions that that should have been a better alternative to being labeled a slayer and essentially be unemployable and a homicical piriah to the parents of Cassidy's friends.

[jerry50]

I never saw Meredith publicly accused of murdering Michelle. Sure, two or three posters here have accused her, and that doesn't mean much. Jason hasn't filed a WDS suit against her, right?


Very good thought.

[Cardinal]

See, that is another thing!!

People keep saying this case will be as famous as the Ann Miller case, or the David Temple case, and I never even heard of either of them. until they were mentioned here.

I keep reading how once the trial starts this case will be huge and attract national media attention.

:no:
Not gonna happen.

The whole nation is riveted on the Caylee Anthony case and will be for a very, very long time.

Which does not mean that justice for Michelle Young or any other murder victim is not warranted, this just won't be that big of a case, only maybe in NC...

It will never be another Laci/Scott Peterson case no matter how hard some people try to make it into one.

Look at the Nancy Cooper case, she rarely gets mentioned at all.

:(

Kat

Kat, I honestly don't care whether or not it's as "big" as the Peterson case. Or whether it's famous, period.

I only care that, at some point, Michelle and Rylan get justice.

What difference does it make whether or not this case gets national media attention?

[Kat4Eagles]

Hi, Kat. :seeya: Hope your Christmas was lovely.

You made me think - why would Jason cry uncontrollably? Obviously, he wasn't committed to Michelle. She apparently wasn't his soulmate or the center of his universe. (I think he was grooming MM for that role.) In fact, it's arguable that he didn't even like her. He certainly complained about her perceived shortcomings to anyone within earshot, according to the SWs.

So why would he cry uncontrollably - or at all, for that matter?


Well, lets look it at it this way.

Suppose he did answer L F's call and was told of Michelle's death.
His reaction would still probably be the same , right?

What if he made a big public deal of it, while driving, and having to stop somewhere and have people witness his grief and the fact he was too overcome to drive?

So, why not try to fake his grief that way, instead of waiting to be told , in private, by his family?

At least, we were told he cried, when he found out.

Now, listen to the 911 call and show me the tears.

Kat

Ps. Hi Card,we had a good Xmas and an Eagle playoff spot..
Hope yours was fun too!!

[Kat4Eagles]

Kat, I honestly don't care whether or not it's as "big" as the Peterson case. Or whether it's famous, period.

I only care that, at some point, Michelle and Rylan get justice.

What difference does it make whether or not this case gets national media attention?


I don't care either, it just slays me to think some people think they are going to become famous for following a case.

:)

Kat

[Cardinal]

Well, lets look it at it this way.

Suppose he did answer L F's call and was told of Michelle's death.
His reaction would still probably be the same , right?

What if he made a big public deal of it, while driving, and having to stop somewhere and have people witness his grief and the fact he was too overcome to drive?

So, why not try to fake his grief that way, instead of waiting to be told , in private, by his family?

At least, we were told he cried, when he found out.

Now, listen to the 911 call and show me the tears.

Kat

Ps. Hi Card,we had a good Xmas and an Eagle playoff spot..
Hope yours was fun too!!

I'm not talking about whether or not he answered Linda's messages right now. I'm talking about his reaction when he was told of Michelle's death. Why would he cry uncontrollably over a woman he was cheating on and, from what he told MM, planning to leave?

PS I had a wonderful Christmas - no sports involved. LOL

[Cardinal]

I don't care either, it just slays me to think some people think they are going to become famous for following a case.

:)

Kat

I know what you mean, Kat. There are even people who have said they're going to write a book about this case. :biggrin:

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm not talking about whether or not he answered Linda's messages right now. I'm talking about his reaction when he was told of Michelle's death. Why would he cry uncontrollably over a woman he was cheating on and, from what he told MM, planning to leave?

PS I had a wonderful Christmas - no sports involved. LOL


I don't think it is out of character for someone to cry after being told or finding out someone you loved has died.
It would be the most normal reaction in the world.

Michelle was still his wife, still C's Mom, and still carrying his unborn son.
Therefore, he cried, whether real or crocodile, remains to be seen.

Glad you have a good holiday , wishing you a Happy New Year too.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I know what you mean, Kat. There are even people who have said they're going to write a book about this case. :biggrin:


I doubt it will ever hit the Best Seller list.

:)
Kat

[Cardinal]

I don't think it is out of character for someone to cry after being told or finding out someone you loved has died.
It would be the most normal reaction in the world.

Michelle was still his wife, still C's Mom, and still carrying his unborn son.
Therefore, he cried, whether real or crocodile.

Glad you have a good holiday , wishing you a Happy New Year too.

Kat

I agree, Kat, it's normal to cry for someone you loved. But to sob uncontrollably - to soak a towel, as some rumors have it? I just find that strange given Jason's obvious disconnect from Michelle.

[Cardinal]

I doubt it will ever hit the Best Seller list.

:)
Kat

Ya think??? LOL

Seriously, Kat, I don't think there are many posters following this case because of a desire for fame and fortune. I think most of them, like me, just want to see justice, finally.

Michelle and Rylan deserve that, don't you agree?


Happy New Year to you too. :)

[Nellikat]

I doubt it will ever hit the Best Seller list.

:)
Kat


I doubt anyone cares about a Best Seller list. Most of us want justice for Michelle. jmo

[alter ego]

Do you think he has an attorney? You would think that an attorney would have at least advised him to answer the suit. It's so easy to delay depositions that that should have been a better alternative to being labeled a slayer and essentially be unemployable and a homicical piriah to the parents of Cassidy's friends.
Yes, I believe he has an atty and yes, I believe the atty advised him about the legal ramifications of responding and of not responding and that the choice to not respond was made.

Why would losing a WDS make one 'unemployable'.

[daddydidit]

Yes, I believe he has an atty and yes, I believe the atty advised him about the legal ramifications of responding and of not responding and that the choice to not respond was made.

Why would losing a WDS make one 'unemployable'.

I personally wouldn't want to work with someone who had lost a WDS, because I would have a tendency to think that maybe they had murdered someone.

But, hey, that's just me.

:wink:

[jerry50]

Yes, I believe he has an atty and yes, I believe the atty advised him about the legal ramifications of responding and of not responding and that the choice to not respond was made.

Why would losing a WDS make one 'unemployable'.


Because he was labeled the slayer of his pregnant wife. I don't know of any businesses today that would hire a person who has been named as a fact by a judge thta they had killed their spouse. There would be too many legal ramifications in today's business climate that anyone would want to take a chance.

[bookie]

Because he was labeled the slayer of his pregnant wife. I don't know of any businesses today that would hire a person who has been named as a fact by a judge thta they had killed their spouse. There would be too many legal ramifications in today's business climate that anyone would want to take a chance.


He hasn't been convicted of any crimes. Employment applications don't ask if you have been deemed a slayer in civil court, it asks about criminal convictions. An employeer doesn't even have to know he was found liable in the civil case. And I'm sure there are more people who don't know who he is then there are that do.

[Barbara2]

He hasn't been convicted of any crimes. Employment applications don't ask if you have been deemed a slayer in civil court, it asks about criminal convictions. An employeer doesn't even have to know he was found liable in the civil case. And I'm sure there are more people who don't know who he is then there are that do.

The problem seems to be that warrants keep getting served on company computers/vehicles. That tends to upset the corporate types. Since JY isn't interested in defending or explaining himself, he seems to keep losing jobs. It seems odd that he wouldn't clear his name so that he could go on with his life. Unless he's guilty and then it's perfectly understandable, IMO.

[alter ego]

Because he was labeled the slayer of his pregnant wife. I don't know of any businesses today that would hire a person who has been named as a fact by a judge thta they had killed their spouse. There would be too many legal ramifications in today's business climate that anyone would want to take a chance.I know of no such legal ramifications or any law protecting an employer for refusing to hire based on a civil suit ruling. Can you link to them pls?

[alter ego]

The problem seems to be that warrants keep getting served on company computers/vehicles. That tends to upset the corporate types. Since JY isn't interested in defending or explaining himself, he seems to keep losing jobs. It seems odd that he wouldn't clear his name so that he could go on with his life. Unless he's guilty and then it's perfectly understandable, IMO.At what point will the SWs at work become harassment? How has he not gone on with his life?

[alter ego]

I personally wouldn't want to work with someone who had lost a WDS, because I would have a tendency to think that maybe they had murdered someone.

But, hey, that's just me.

:wink:
But how would you know if a coworker had lost a WD suit?

[jerzeegirl]

Jason has been in survival mode for the past two years. Well, thats MY feeling anyways. If he truly loved her as much as so many posters on this board have stated, there is no way in hell that he would let any court document state that he is the slayer of Michelle Young. Keeping quiet is one thing, his constitutional right but when it came time to put up or shut up in the wds, i truly believe that any innocent person would have made some kind of statement. He has allowed it to be documented FOREVER that he is the slayer of his beloved wife. Oh yes i know, its not a criminal thang as everyone states here/. But this will follow him forever and im sure he was well aware of this before making NO statement. But wait, he totally disrespected Michelle during their marriage in many many ways, so what does he care. I believe he will fight for his daughter, hes never shown that he didnt love her, other than leaving her for umpteen hours alone with her dead mother but i truly believe he had no choice, survival for him is all that was.

I would never allow a court document state that i was the cause of my husband being bludgeoned to death. I would take my chances, fire my lawyer or do what ever it takes to scream on the rooftops that i loved my husband and please find the horrific person that did this to him. But then again, i love him, we know pretty much for a fact that michelle wasnt loved by her husband so what does he care. Being called a slayer of his wife is like my eight year old calling me a poo poo head, his feeling is "who cares, as long as im free"

[oakayfine]

In reading the latest posts here and elsewhere I think there are two things that is keeping these forums open. The love for JY and the hate for JY. I think the victim MY took a back seat to the hate for JY a long time ago. There must be some one on here that knew her and yet you never see any one with a story of something they did with her. No shopping trip stories. No party stories. Oh we saw where she locked JY out of the motel room. That wasn't a very happy story. Did she never do fun things? Did she not take shopping trips with her friends? In my opinion we have lost the meaning of the MY forums and turned it into the bash JY forums. The friends that knew JY have said very little in public but they have chose to come on these forums with their ugly stories. Maybe JY peed himself at a party and sat naked. Maybe he didn't. But surely there were people around when JY and MY had fun. Or maybe not. Maybe their marriage was void of any fun and that is what sent JY to other women and MY to a therapist. How sad that both young lives turned out this way. I guess if there is a lesson here its to choose carefully whom you marry and girls don't get pregnant.

Confused ... again.
I am pretty certain that MY had fun. I am sure she did have some very fun times with JY but I do believe that those times turned to some rather horrid times throughout their years of marriage. That much is quite obvious given the fact that he has been deemed a "slayer" in the WDS.
You happen to see this board as a "JY bashing board". I see that it has become the official board for bashing the Fisher's and has been that way for well over a year now.
I really don't care what JY did "here or there". He may have done puppetry, peed his pants, sat on a couch naked or any other of the many perverse things that have been posted here. They all point to his moral character. "Moral character, an evaluation of a particular individual's moral qualities "; as defined in Wikipedia. It's all about his morals. These morals, or lack thereof, are rather disturbing. One can make mistakes but there really were quite a number of these mistakes in his life. Especially coming from a married man with a child.
Couple this lack of morals with some of the other "rumors" that have now been outlined in the numerous search warrants and it tends to make a person stop and think.
Some here have the mindset that Jason's lack of morals are now, somehow, Michelle's fault ... because she chose to have a child with him and conceived another ... so he has now, somehow, been turned into an innocent victim.
I have yet to understand the rationale of this "logic".
Despite all of the SW's this board will continue to roll along, bashing the Fisher's and proclaiming the "slayer's" innocence.
I honestly believe that once an arrest and conviction in a court of law have been done and over with; that many of these same posters will be here, blaming Michelle and her family for something JLY did.
Human Nature is quite interesting. Is this all about Justice for Michelle or is it about some strange obsession to agitate an already hurt and distraught family?
Has the internet really brought out this horribly demonic side of people?

JMO, IMO and all the other O's that might go along with that.

I hope the New Year brings lots of Hope, Prosperity and Happiness to all. Especially those who have lost loved ones to violent crime.

Oakay Bye

[oakayfine]

But how would you know if a coworker had lost a WD suit?

They would not have to worry about it if the person was not yet hired because no company would hire him.
If he was already employed and said person had lost a WDS ... it would be all over the office within 24 hours and that person would most likely be fired so I guess the point is moot.

[daddydidit]

But how would you know if a coworker had lost a WD suit?

google is my friend.

[alter ego]

google is my friend.
So, you google all your coworkers and new hires?

[alter ego]

They would not have to worry about it if the person was not yet hired because no company would hire him.
If he was already employed and said person had lost a WDS ... it would be all over the office within 24 hours and that person would most likely be fired so I guess the point is moot.Why would a company open themselves up to a law suit for unjust termination by firing someone who lost a tort action? And I still can't find anything under employment law that makes loosing a civil suit a legal and valid reason to label an applicant unqualified for the position for which they applied.

[5swab5]

So, you google all your coworkers and new hires?

You better believe it. In this day and age, with that kind of information literally at one's fingertips, it is irresponsible NOT to check.

MOO

[5swab5]

Why would a company open themselves up to a law suit for unjust termination by firing someone who lost a tort action? And I still can't find anything under employment law that makes loosing a civil suit a legal and valid reason to label an applicant unqualified for the position for which they applied.


In this day and age, it is an employer's world.

Some people are just too damaged to be considered for the payroll and potential liability, too many other qualified applicants with no baggage. In any responsible Company, Jason's application would hit the trash can in 3 seconds flat.

MOO

[Breakingnews]

Why would a company open themselves up to a law suit for unjust termination by firing someone who lost a tort action? And I still can't find anything under employment law that makes loosing a civil suit a legal and valid reason to label an applicant unqualified for the position for which they applied.

NC & SC are "at will" states. They can pretty much fire you for any reason they want and you would have no legal recourse. Exceptions would be the standard discrimination of age, race, religion, disability etc.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/eaw.htm

We don't know why Jason lost his last job, but if he was let go in Sept that was shortly after the release of the SWs served at his mom's, sister's and the storage shed. The ones that the PC included surveillance pics of him at midnight in the hotel lobby, rock in the door jamb, his dna found surrounded by blood splatter, his missing shirt, hushpuppy prints on a pillow, newspaper delivery person spotting a light colored SUV in the driveway...

[Breakingnews]

You better believe it. In this day and age, with that kind of information literally at one's fingertips, it is irresponsible NOT to check.

MOO

Yes, they are using the Internet as a hiring tool. Here's some numbers complied by careerbuilder.

September 12, 2008 (Computerworld) More than one in five employers search social networking sites to screen job candidates, according to a survey of more than 31,000 employers released by CareerBuilder.com this week.

Of the hiring managers who use social networks, one-third said they found information on such sites that caused them to toss the candidate out of consideration for a job, the survey said.

-snip-
Notes showing links to criminal behavior (21%)

LINK (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9114560&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_top)

[jerry50]

Why would a company open themselves up to a law suit for unjust termination by firing someone who lost a tort action? And I still can't find anything under employment law that makes loosing a civil suit a legal and valid reason to label an applicant unqualified for the position for which they applied.

Actually I doubt if he would be hired in the first place. What will be the reasons he puts on his resume for his last 2 years of employment and terminations? Unless the unemployment rate is zero, I think that his chances of getting a decent job are zero.

[Hey Paula]

You better believe it. In this day and age, with that kind of information literally at one's fingertips, it is irresponsible NOT to check.

MOO

Add to that the ailing economy and the rising unemployment rate, making the hiring practice more selective than ever.

IMO

[daddydidit]

So, you google all your coworkers and new hires?

You DON'T???

I google new friends, old friends, my spouse's co-workers, my children's teachers, my children's friend's parents, my children's daycare providers, my neighbors, my friend's friends, and especially my enemies.

I am a firm believer in nipping problems in the bud and I don't see a thing wrong with it. Like 5swab5 said, I think it would be irresponsible NOT to, especially where children are concerned.

[alter ego]

You better believe it. In this day and age, with that kind of information literally at one's fingertips, it is irresponsible NOT to check.

MOONo, it's not. When does the paranoia stop? Friends? Neighbors? Relatives? Spouses? Dates you children bring home? How about those you post with online?

[alter ego]

You DON'T???

I google new friends, old friends, my spouse's co-workers, my children's teachers, my children's friend's parents, my children's daycare providers, my neighbors, my friend's friends, and especially my enemies.

I am a firm believer in nipping problems in the bud and I don't see a thing wrong with it. Like 5swab5 said, I think it would be irresponsible NOT to, especially where children are concerned.

Sounds like paranoia to me.:chicken:

[annalyzer]

You DON'T???

.

I don't. :unsure:

[annalyzer]

Sounds like paranoia to me.:chicken:


Yes, a tad bit. :scared:

[alter ego]

Yes, they are using the Internet as a hiring tool. Here's some numbers complied by careerbuilder.



-snip-
Notes showing links to criminal behavior (21%)

LINK (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9114560&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_top)
When did google become a social networking site?

[5swab5]

No, it's not. When does the paranoia stop? Friends? Neighbors? Relatives? Spouses? Dates you children bring home? How about those you post with online?

All of the above.

I would rather be safe, than sorry.

You are aware that there are literally dozens and dozens of registered sex offenders living amongst us, not to mention court certified wife and baby "slayers".

Knowledge is power.

MOO

[Breakingnews]

When did google become a social networking site?

A survey by the Society for Human Resource Management (SHRM) found that nearly half of the HR professionals who responded run a candidate's name through a search engine such as Google or Yahoo! before making an offer. About one in five of those HR professionals who conduct such searches said they have disqualified a candidate because of what they uncovered.

-snip-

Even the Govt:

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) recently changed its hiring policies to ensure that more job candidates will have their backgrounds searched on the Internet. The agency already had a policy of Googling certain potential hires, but the policy was broadened after the TSA admitted they erred in the hiring of Sonia Pitt, who had just been fired from her executive-level job at the Minnesota Department of Transportation due to financial improprieties. The TSA was criticized because it had not used common Internet search engines to perform a background search.

http://www.ceridian.com/recruiting_article/1,6266,15762-69642,00.html

[alter ego]

NC & SC are "at will" states. They can pretty much fire you for any reason they want and you would have no legal recourse. Exceptions would be the standard discrimination of age, race, religion, disability etc.

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/eaw.htm

We don't know why Jason lost his last job, but if he was let go in Sept that was shortly after the release of the SWs served at his mom's, sister's and the storage shed. The ones that the PC included surveillance pics of him at midnight in the hotel lobby, rock in the door jamb, his dna found surrounded by blood splatter, his missing shirt, hushpuppy prints on a pillow, newspaper delivery person spotting a light colored SUV in the driveway...ah, thank you for the link.

I'm looking for the filing, but I thought it was also illegal to terminate someone for something they couldn't ask in an interview (like are you pregnant or have you ever been arrested). I'll see what I can find.

[alter ego]

All of the above.

I would rather be safe, than sorry.

You are aware that there are literally dozens and dozens of registered sex offenders living amongst us, not to mention court certified wife and baby "slayers".

Knowledge is power.

MOOThere is a huge difference between checking to see what registered sex offenders live in your neighborhood and googling neighbors to satisfy some paranoid curiosity.

[Silsbee]

All of the above.

I would rather be safe, than sorry.

You are aware that there are literally dozens and dozens of registered sex offenders living amongst us, not to mention court certified wife and baby "slayers".

Knowledge is power.

MOO

I don't know Swabby - what happened to personal interaction to determine if you want to associate with someone or not? I find googling everyone I come in contact with excessive - especially family & friends or even co-workers.

I can see if I knew someone casually and thought they were a little "weird" - I might but it wouldn't be my first thought. Periodically I do check my area for sex offenders but I don't automatically assume everyone I meet is a murderer or a sex offender.

Just my 2 cents
Sils

[alter ego]

-snip-

Even the Govt:



http://www.ceridian.com/recruiting_article/1,6266,15762-69642,00.htmlI firmly believe employers, especially the gvt, respect and honor the cannon of IUPG.

[Cardinal]

I firmly believe employers, especially the gvt, respect and honor the cannon of IUPG.

Of course they do, AE. They also respect and honor the integrity of the workplace and the bottom line. When an employer receives a stack of resumes for one open position, which is very much the case in this market, they can afford to be extremely selective. IUPG or not, why would they take a risk when they don't have to?

JMO

[Cardinal]

I don't know Swabby - what happened to personal interaction to determine if you want to associate with someone or not? I find googling everyone I come in contact with excessive - especially family & friends or even co-workers.

I can see if I knew someone casually and thought they were a little "weird" - I might but it wouldn't be my first thought. Periodically I do check my area for sex offenders but I don't automatically assume everyone I meet is a murderer or a sex offender.

Just my 2 cents
Sils

I feel the same way, Sils. Maybe I'm too trusting, but it has never occurred to me to google my coworkers and neighbors.

Happy New Year!

[Breakingnews]

I firmly believe employers, especially the gvt, respect and honor the cannon of IUPG.

That may be so. The information in those warrants did shine a light on Jason's character and his inappropriate comments to his female co-workers. The sexual and obnoxious comments would be a reason not to hire him. IMO.

[Cardinal]

That may be so. The information in those warrants did shine a light on Jason's character and his inappropriate comments to his female co-workers. The sexual and obnoxious comments would be a reason not to hire him. IMO.

An employee, male or female, who made those comments in my workplace would be out the door.

ETA: And that may be exactly what happened at Jason's last place of employment.

[Silsbee]

Of course they do, AE. They also respect and honor the integrity of the workplace and the bottom line. When an employer receives a stack of resumes for one open position, which is very much the case in this market, they can afford to be extremely selective. IUPG or not, why would they take a risk when they don't have to?

JMO

Hi Card,
Do most employers do a background check before or after they hire someone? I have only been involved with one business that did background checks and it was done after the hire not before so unless it is typical for some to screen several potential hires how would they know if he was under suspicion?

I know the links above suggest some companies are doing this but I don't see it as a wide spread practice.

Sils

[Cardinal]

Hi Card,
Do most employers do a background check before or after they hire someone? I have only been involved with one business that did background checks and it was done after the hire not before so unless it is typical for some to screen several potential hires how would they know if he was under suspicion?

I know the links above suggest some companies are doing this but I don't see it as a wide spread practice.

Sils

I work for a large corporation. Every offer of employment is in writing, and states clearly that the offer is conditional pending the results of a credit check, a drug test and criminal background check, all of which have to be authorized and completed within 3 days of the offer. If the candidate objects, the offer is withdrawn. If anything remotely suspicious turns up, the offer is withdrawn.

[Silsbee]

I feel the same way, Sils. Maybe I'm too trusting, but it has never occurred to me to google my coworkers and neighbors.

Happy New Year!

I must be too trusting to. I love my neighbors so I won't be googling them. One actually owns a background checking co. LOL - Never thought of using his services.

Happy New Year to you and everyone else.

Sils

[Breakingnews]

An employee, male or female, who made those comments in my workplace would be out the door.

ETA: And that may be exactly what happened at Jason's last place of employment.

I had the same thought. I don't see his past behavior changing much, especially if he sees nothing wrong with it.

[Silsbee]

I work for a large corporation. Every offer of employment is in writing, and states clearly that the offer is conditional pending the results of a credit check, a drug test and criminal background check, all of which have to be authorized and completed within 3 days of the offer. If the candidate objects, the offer is withdrawn. If anything remotely suspicious turns up, the offer is withdrawn.

This may be a silly question but do they have to complete all of these things BEFORE they actually start work? I worked briefly for a company that required the same things but I was already working when I went for my drug screening.

What constitutes suspicious?

Just curious
Sils

[Cardinal]

I had the same thought. I don't see his past behavior changing much, especially if he sees nothing wrong with it.

And/or has never been held accountable for it.

[Cardinal]

This may be a silly question but do they have to complete all of these things BEFORE they actually start work? I worked briefly for a company that required the same things but I was already working when I went for my drug screening.

What constitutes suspicious?

Just curious
Sils

Yes, they have to complete all those things and the results have to be in hand before they start work.

You only have to read the news to know that a company's employees are, in large part, their public image. Particularly for a publicly held company, image is as important as earnings. An employer is not going to take a risk like that, no matter how good someone's resume is.

And honestly, if I were reviewing Jason's resume, with the gaps in employment and lengths of employment, he wouldn't even get an interview.

JMO

ETA: "Suspicious" is anything that the employer doesn't like.

[kingbuff]

Now I'm curious. Has anyone checked online for Linda and Meredith and the gay guy whose name I don't remember and the Youngs? Some on here seem to have very good computer skills.

[Cardinal]

Now I'm curious. Has anyone checked online for Linda and Meredith and the gay guy whose name I don't remember and the Youngs? Some on here seem to have very good computer skills.

Sure. All the hits are for this forum and others, and news articles. But feel free. LOL

[daddydidit]

Sounds like paranoia to me.:chicken:

Everyone else just thinks I am nosy - Gladys Kravitz style.

:biggrin:

[kingbuff]

Sure. All the hits are for this forum and others, and news articles. But feel free. LOL

I feel free LOL but I'm constrained by ignorance LOL. I tried once looking for info about the rumors on two other boards about Linda and Meredith. Then I saw the list of books Meredith's roommate was interested in and so I tried finding info about her, but struck out. I think the diligent searchers use more sophisticated engines than Google.

[daddydidit]

Now I'm curious. Has anyone checked online for Linda and Meredith and the gay guy whose name I don't remember and the Youngs? Some on here seem to have very good computer skills.

Actually, kingb, I've been too busy checking out the millions of hits that came up for you.

:ohmy:

(just kidding - I really have no desire to google you. I already know more than I would like to)

[Silsbee]

Yes, they have to complete all those things and the results have to be in hand before they start work.

You only have to read the news to know that a company's employees are, in large part, their public image. Particularly for a publicly held company, image is as important as earnings. An employer is not going to take a risk like that, no matter how good someone's resume is.

And honestly, if I were reviewing Jason's resume, with the gaps in employment and lengths of employment, he wouldn't even get an interview.

JMO

ETA: "Suspicious" is anything that the employer doesn't like.

Thanks Card - So I am thinking suspicious can also be any "personal" behavior that has nothing to do with job performance. Anyone that may have done something really stupid or admitted to doing something on a myspace page nowadays could cost them a job?

I think we are seeing this more and more - i.e. several beauty queens that have been caught misbehaving and being stripped of their titles. I am of the opinion this type of immature/adolescent behavior has always been around but is more public now because of the social sites online. It's a little scary - I am not the same person today that I was 20 years ago. I am glad some of my antics did not keep me unemployed.

Sils

Time for our annual New Years Eve Party. Pizza & Beignets! Good Night!

[Cardinal]

I feel free LOL but I'm constrained by ignorance LOL. I tried once looking for info about the rumors on two other boards about Linda and Meredith. Then I saw the list of books Meredith's roommate was interested in and so I tried finding info about her, but struck out. I think the diligent searchers use more sophisticated engines than Google.

Try searching "Jason Young" "murder". Ignorance will not be a bar.

[Cardinal]

Thanks Card - So I am thinking suspicious can also be any "personal" behavior that has nothing to do with job performance. Anyone that may have done something really stupid or admitted to doing something on a myspace page nowadays could cost them a job?

I think we are seeing this more and more - i.e. several beauty queens that have been caught misbehaving and being stripped of their titles. I am of the opinion this type of immature/adolescent behavior has always been around but is more public now because of the social sites online. It's a little scary - I am not the same person today that I was 20 years ago. I am glad some of my antics did not keep me unemployed.

Sils

Time for our annual New Years Eve Party. Pizza & Beignets! Good Night!

Same here, Sils. Thank goodness myspace was before my time!



2 of my favorite foods - but I never thought of combining them. Happy New Year!

[kingbuff]

Try searching "Jason Young" "murder". Ignorance will not be a bar.

Oh, I've done that LOL. Other than Google, what other search sites do you use?

[Cardinal]

Oh, I've done that LOL. Other than Google, what other search sites do you use?

Someone else will have to help you.

LOL

[Breakingnews]

I thought Skeptical had hired a PI to investigate Linda, Meredith and every known gay friend of Michelle/Meredith's. Who needs a search engine when they've put up the big bucks for a private detective?

[5swab5]

There is a huge difference between checking to see what registered sex offenders live in your neighborhood and googling neighbors to satisfy some paranoid curiosity.

I disagree.
Anything one can do to better educate themselves about the dangers around them, both at home and in the work place is all for the good, IMO.

Ignorance is not bliss.

[achristie]

I feel the same way, Sils. Maybe I'm too trusting, but it has never occurred to me to google my coworkers and neighbors.

Happy New Year!

Don't bother. I just did. I must live a boring life. The only thing I found was campaign contributions. Not earth shattering.:lol:

MOO Aggie

[alter ego]

I disagree.
Anything one can do to better educate themselves about the dangers around them, both at home and in the work place is all for the good, IMO.

Ignorance is not bliss.I guess that is the difference then, I don't consider my neighbors and co-works 'dangers'.

Wishing you, and everyone, a safe and happy New Year!:beer:

[jerry50]

Now I'm curious. Has anyone checked online for Linda and Meredith and the gay guy whose name I don't remember and the Youngs? Some on here seem to have very good computer skills.


I don't know how many morally bankrupt people would search for derogatory information on the innocent victims of a deviant heartless killer.
The statements made against the Fisher's are beyond belief.

[enigma™]

I don't know how many morally bankrupt people would search for derogatory information on the innocent victims of a deviant heartless killer.
The statements made against the Fisher's are beyond belief.

Sadly, in every case, there are some that are that heartless. On the boards, it's usually the same suspects, utilizing different monikers.

Justice for Michelle & Rylan in 2009~ let this be the year.

Happy New Year to all who hope for that justice to prevail.

[oakayfine]

Why would a company open themselves up to a law suit for unjust termination by firing someone who lost a tort action? And I still can't find anything under employment law that makes loosing a civil suit a legal and valid reason to label an applicant unqualified for the position for which they applied.

It's called "at will employment". Any given employer needs no reason to fire anyone fire just as the employee has nor reason to offer a reason for quitting. I am not sure of the laws in NC but most states now have that clause in their statutes. This clause allows both parties an "out" to any future lawsuits protecting both te employee and the employer

I have no idea as to what type of contract JLY signed with his employer but I would again guess that the employer has all bases covered.

[oakayfine]

He answered the only relevant question: where were you the night Michelle was killed?

After that, any thing else he could say would be an attempt to prove a negative.

I don't know that he even answered that question. Oh, yes he did, but now, here lies the real question... did he answer that question truthfully ... or was it a "pseudo truth'?
Jason seems to think he has everyone fooled. So many other killers did as well. Funny thing about the truth ... it will always come and bite you where it counts.

King, did you never quite figure out the difference between circus play and reality?

My logical brain tells me to ignore your possibilities because I use my own mind and have honestly tried to understand your thought processes. I still am not on the same playing field as are you.

I am blessed to be as such.

Happy New Year to All and may this next year bring about the best for the Fisher's, Cassidy and her wayward Daddy.

May God forgive him for his horrific deed and may Jason find the courage he so desperately needs to ask for that same forgiveness. I pray that God will bless the Youngs with the same courage as he has done with the Hacking family so that the Young's will be so blessed as to carry on with what has become so evident so as to give Jason the courage to admit his wrong-doings and help their beloved son save his soul.

[enigma™]

From the same article I linked above:

Wake County Assistant District Attorney Howard Cummings said that explaining why Jason Young has not been charged would require revealing evidence that he's not allowed to comment on.


So, Jason knows he will be charged eventually, the DA has information that is revealing, and yet there has been no action on this case. This is truly baffling. I have to go with an accomplice at this point.

Did Kim reveal her whereabouts when it was revealed that Michelle was murdered? Does she have an alibi for times between Jason's departure from Birchleaf to the HI? What do her phone records reveal? Was she in contact with Jason, "slayer", Young, during any point of 11/3/midnight and 11/3/revelation that Michelle was bludgeoned to death?
Phone records for all relatives are "relative" at this point. It would be more than interesting to view them.

[alter ego]

So, Jason knows he will be charged eventually, the DA has information that is revealing, and yet there has been no action on this case. This is truly baffling. I have to go with an accomplice at this point.

Did Kim reveal her whereabouts when it was revealed that Michelle was murdered? Does she have an alibi for times betweem Jason's departure from Birchleaf to the HI? What do her phone records reveal? Was she in contact with Jason, "slayer" Young, during any point of 11/3/midnight and 11/3/revelation that Michelle was bludgeoned to death?
Phone records for all relatives are "relative" at this point. It would be more than interesting to view them.
And guess who 'forgot' where she put her keys upon entering the house.

Did Meredith reveal her whereabouts when the TOD was established? Does she have an alibi for times betweem Jason's departure from Birchleaf to the HI? What do her phone records reveal? Was she in contact with Jason, "slayer" Young, during any point of 11/3/midnight and 11/3 phonemail receipt from Jason? Phone records for all relatives are "relative" at this point. It would be more than interesting to view them.

Yes indeed, it would.

[oakayfine]

Try searching "Jason Young" "murder". Ignorance will not be a bar.

I find it very curious how you can find so many things about a horrific murder to LOL about. I can only hope that God does not lol your soul to hell.

I apologize to Card ... this was not meant for you but rather for the King of Bluff.

[enigma™]

And guess who 'forgot' where she put her keys upon entering the house.

Did Meredith reveal her whereabouts when the TOD was established? Does she have an alibi for times betweem Jason's departure from Birchleaf to the HI? What do her phone records reveal? Was she in contact with Jason, "slayer" Young, during any point of 11/3/midnight and 11/3 phonemail receipt from Jason? Phone records for all relatives are "relative" at this point. It would be more than interesting to view them.

Yes indeed, it would.

I guess you missed the point when I said "all" phone records would be interesting to review? RIF!

Quick on the attack this evening, I see. It matters not, justice will prevail, no matter who is deemed the slayer. I do believe LE has pegged the right person who shall not be deemed a "man" in this case.

[alter ego]

I guess you missed the point when I said "all" phone records would be interesting to review? RIF!

Quick on the attack this evening, I see. It matters not, justice will prevail, no matter who is deemed the slayer. I do believe LE has pegged the right person who shall not be deemed a "man" in this case.
The only one on the attack is you, with your 'RIF' comment and all. :rolleyes:

Doesn't appear the DA agrees with LE as they have not sought an indictment.

[oakayfine]

And guess who 'forgot' where she put her keys upon entering the house.

Did Meredith reveal her whereabouts when the TOD was established? Does she have an alibi for times betweem Jason's departure from Birchleaf to the HI? What do her phone records reveal? Was she in contact with Jason, "slayer" Young, during any point of 11/3/midnight and 11/3 phonemail receipt from Jason? Phone records for all relatives are "relative" at this point. It would be more than interesting to view them.

Yes indeed, it would.

How can you possibly believe that Meredith has been involved with this horribly, oh so obvious crime of wife hatred? Are you still stuck on the keys and 911 call after every other warrant has pointed to Michelle's "loving husband" who took every opportunity possible to verbalize and sexualize his hatred towards her? Open your eyes, quit slandering the true victims and give us some true facts as to how JLY could possibly not be the perp. These boards are NOT a court of law so I really don't give a true rats *** about proof in a court of law. Just use some good old fashioned common sense.
Please stop with the trashing of the victims family. In your heart of hearts, I firmly believe you know JLY is guilty. Let's just pray that the Lord has mercy on that "man's" soul.
Enough is enough.

[Breakingnews]

I go back to the earlier statements. He was in certain places at certain times and I wake up at night, drink coffee thinking about it. So that makes me think there is something that places Jason in Hillsville that night or within the TOD timeline. Or an illusion that he is in Hillsville.

Others don't put much weight in the blisters on Jason's feet but that clinched it for me that he was alone when he murdered Michelle. He thought it out, 2 pairs of shoe prints. He's not the first person to use this throw off scheme. Some high schoolers in MN did the same thing. But he fanaggled something together that could question whether he left VA.

I can't figure out what it is. Brad Cooper tried the cell phone call from his wife and he was arrested. If Jason had an accomplice it would be establishing his presence in Hillsville not assisting in the actual murder. Could have been someone unaware of it too. IMO.

[enigma™]

The only one on the attack is you, with your 'RIF' comment and all. :rolleyes:

Doesn't appear the DA agrees with LE as they have not sought an indictment.


Reading is fundamental What do you not understand about that? I'm not here to attack, but it is important to comprehend what it is some are trying to convey. I agree the DA is having issues with what LE has brought forth so far, but it does not mean I am attacking you.

[enigma™]

I go back to the earlier statements. He was in certain places at certain times and I wake up at night, drink coffee thinking about it. So that makes me think there is something that places Jason in Hillsville that night or within the TOD timeline. Or an illusion that he is in Hillsville.

Others don't put much weight in the blisters on Jason's feet but that clinched it for me that he was alone when he murdered Michelle. He thought it out, 2 pairs of shoe prints. He's not the first person to use this throw off scheme. Some high schoolers in MN did the same thing. But he fanaggled something together that could question whether he left VA.

I can't figure out what it is. Brad Cooper tried the cell phone call from his wife and he was arrested. If Jason had an accomplice it would be establishing his presence in Hillsville not assisting in the actual murder. Could have been someone unaware of it too. IMO.


He is guilty as sin, LE just has not put all the pieces together yet. They will. It may take another set of fresh eyes, but the evidence is there. There is no way Jason Lynn Young is innocent. I have tried to give him every benefit of the doubt, but when a man does absolutely nothing to assist in the inquiry of his "beloved wife's" murder, I do more than a head-tilt. I am absolutely mortified that Linda and Meredith have had to endure more than 2 years with no closure. Cassidy - I can't comprehend what she will endure in her years ahead. I pray for her, as I do for all the victims of Jason Lynn Young, "slayer".

[oakayfine]

No matter how you may stand upon JLY's guilt or innocence, I wish all a very Happy New Year.
I hope that justice is served in this case; sooner, rather than later. It has been dragging on far too long. Michelle, the Fishers and the Youngs, as in little Cassidy, deserve this case to be solved.
I have my own opinion, as do so many others. May this New Year bring peace, happiness and love to every person whom this case has brought happened to rip a chord in their heart.

Happy New Year to all.

[jerzeegirl]

How do you make the leap that JY will be charged? Where does he say the evidence he can't talk about concerns JY? Maybe the waevidence he has shows JY could not have killed his wife. I am sure KY has totally cooperated with LE.


If LE had any kind of evidence that JY did not kill his wife and could be eliminated from suspision, why would LE make a statement for the wds stating that JY killed michelle. Not all LE is corrupt as you would wish this LE to be. There are a few bad seeds in every profession, i do not believe for one second that this LE has any personal vendetta against JY. If that was the case they would have bashed him in the media, arrested him long ago with what they have and took their chances. The LE in this case has acted very professional and have not made public statements that could be demeaning to JY or his family.

[MerriMent]

How can you possibly believe that Meredith has been involved with this horribly, oh so obvious crime of wife hatred? Are you still stuck on the keys and 911 call after every other warrant has pointed to Michelle's "loving husband" who took every opportunity possible to verbalize and sexualize his hatred towards her? Open your eyes, quit slandering the true victims and give us some true facts as to how JLY could possibly not be the perp. These boards are NOT a court of law so I really don't give a true rats *** about proof in a court of law. Just use some good old fashioned common sense.
Please stop with the trashing of the victims family. In your heart of hearts, I firmly believe you know JLY is guilty. Let's just pray that the Lord has mercy on that "man's" soul.
Enough is enough.

Meredith Fisher made conflicting statements to LE as noted in search warrants. That is certainly enough to throw suspicion onto her that she is involved in this murder. I really don't understand your need to accuse other posters of "slander" and "trashing the victims family" when all that is being discussed is publicly available information.

[Jester]

Meredith Fisher made conflicting statements to LE as noted in search warrants. That is certainly enough to throw suspicion onto her that she is involved in this murder. I really don't understand your need to accuse other posters of "slander" and "trashing the victims family" when all that is being discussed is publicly available information.

You mean Meredith has talked with the police? Not hiding behind her right to remain mute? She has cooperated?

Since I missed the conflicting statements, could you please provide a link.

[MerriMent]

You mean Meredith has talked with the police? Not hiding behind her right to remain mute? She has cooperated?

Since I missed the conflicting statements, could you please provide a link.

Cooperation doesn't equate to truth. You've followed the Caylee Anthony case, haven't you?

Some of us didn't miss the conflicting statements made by Meredith Fisher noted on a sealed search warrant. That search warrant was unsealed nearly a month ago.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf

[jerry50]

Cooperation doesn't equate to truth. You've followed the Caylee Anthony case, haven't you?

Some of us didn't miss the conflicting statements made by Meredith Fisher noted on a sealed search warrant. That search warrant was unsealed nearly a month ago.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf

All of the MDI seem to have said she is lazy and an under achiever among other derogatory statements. Then you all say that she is capable of pulling off this murder without leaving any evidence to warrant an arrest. Which is it?
LE has been able to verify an alibi for her and eliminate her as a suspect otherwise there would be search warrants lately for her rather than JY.
LE would also have ran the 911 call through a voice verification and have eliminated her as a suspect based on that if nothing else.
Obviously when LE investigated the keys issue they were satisfied eith the results and nothing else has come of it.

[Hey Paula]

Happy New Year Everyone!

I still believe that the delay in JY's arrest is strategic and that it might happen after the custody suit is settled.

Can JY's failure to reply to the WDS, being deemed the "slayer", along with his failure to collect the proceeds from Michelle's policy and failure to reply to the custody suit (should JY choose not to reply) be used as additional evidence presented to the Grand Jury?

[Jester]

Cooperation doesn't equate to truth. You've followed the Caylee Anthony case, haven't you?

Some of us didn't miss the conflicting statements made by Meredith Fisher noted on a sealed search warrant. That search warrant was unsealed nearly a month ago.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf

I have followed the Anthony case and agree, cooperation and truth can be strangers.

Thanks for the link.

[Jester]

Is it possible that she put her keys on the kitchen counter, and, in her confusion after discovering the murder, picked up the wrong keys? When she went outside, she placed the keys on the car to wait for the police?

[Lindsey]

Happy New Year Everyone!

I still believe that the delay in JY's arrest is strategic and that it might happen after the custody suit is settled.

Can JY's failure to reply to the WDS, being deemed the "slayer", along with his failure to collect the proceeds from Michelle's policy and failure to reply to the custody suit (should JY choose not to reply) be used as additional evidence presented to the Grand Jury?

I think the delay in JY's arrest has to do with the DA wanting more evidence against him before going to the GJ. He apparently thinks the evidence they have is not enough to convict JY.

It is my understanding none of the civil court stuff can be used against him in a criminal trial. So I would say, no it can't be used as additional evidence with the GJ.

I'm very curious about the info that would have to be revealed to explain why an arrest has not been made and it's forbidden for LE to comment on said info at this time. There was a link posted earlier to the article I'm talking about.


What is the deadline for filing a response to the custody suit?

[Hey Paula]

Is it possible that she put her keys on the kitchen counter, and, in her confusion after discovering the murder, picked up the wrong keys? When she went outside, she placed the keys on the car to wait for the police?

That's one possibility.

Another is that when Meredith entered the garage, the dog might have jumped up on her, or ran out of the garage, and she might have put her keys on Michelle's car. Then due to the horror she witnessed that day, and because Meredith always puts her keys on the kitchen counter, thought those were her keys on the kitchen counter.

Since crime scene photos form part of the case file, and Meredith's keys were photographed on "the victim's car", this was noted in the s/w.

[MerriMent]

Is it possible that she put her keys on the kitchen counter, and, in her confusion after discovering the murder, picked up the wrong keys? When she went outside, she placed the keys on the car to wait for the police?

I don't believe that's possible because I don't believe LE would ask her to wait for them in the garage.

[MerriMent]

I think the delay in JY's arrest has to do with the DA wanting more evidence against him before going to the GJ. He apparently thinks the evidence they have is not enough to convict JY.

It is my understanding none of the civil court stuff can be used against him in a criminal trial. So I would say, no it can't be used as additional evidence with the GJ.

I'm very curious about the info that would have to be revealed to explain why an arrest has not been made and it's forbidden for LE to comment on said info at this time. There was a link posted earlier to the article I'm talking about.


What is the deadline for filing a response to the custody suit?

LE can't comment on the TOD because the ME didn't make it public.
I believe it is impossible to place Jason in Raleigh at TOD.

[Silsbee]

Is it possible that she put her keys on the kitchen counter, and, in her confusion after discovering the murder, picked up the wrong keys? When she went outside, she placed the keys on the car to wait for the police?

But how are they the wrong keys? Her keys were on Michelle's car not Michelle's keys.

Sils

[Hey Paula]

I think the delay in JY's arrest has to do with the DA wanting more evidence against him before going to the GJ. He apparently thinks the evidence they have is not enough to convict JY.

It is my understanding none of the civil court stuff can be used against him in a criminal trial. So I would say, no it can't be used as additional evidence with the GJ.

I'm very curious about the info that would have to be revealed to explain why an arrest has not been made and it's forbidden for LE to comment on said info at this time. There was a link posted earlier to the article I'm talking about.


What is the deadline for filing a response to the custody suit?

I wonder if a sealed indictment has already been handed down, pending JY's arrest? And that perhaps that info, which cannot be revealed, is the reason it's sealed.

I don't know what the custody suit response filing deadline is. But, based upon JY's failure to respond to the WDS, somehow I doubt he will respond to the custody suit. JY is in protective mode to such a degree that he has allowed himself to be deemed the unchallenged "slayer" of his pregnant wife, despite knowing Cassidy will someday be aware of this.

[Silsbee]

I think the delay in JY's arrest has to do with the DA wanting more evidence against him before going to the GJ. He apparently thinks the evidence they have is not enough to convict JY.

It is my understanding none of the civil court stuff can be used against him in a criminal trial. So I would say, no it can't be used as additional evidence with the GJ.

I'm very curious about the info that would have to be revealed to explain why an arrest has not been made and it's forbidden for LE to comment on said info at this time. There was a link posted earlier to the article I'm talking about.


What is the deadline for filing a response to the custody suit?

Happy New Year Lindsey,
I think you're right. The civil suits have nothing to do with the criminal case. I do believe they thought they could get him to talk when Linda filed the wrongful death suit but the outcome of that suit will not have any affect on a criminal trial if they ever get that far.

It does make you wonder what info could prevent them from making an arrest. IIRC he had 30 days to respond the the custody suit??

Sils

[enigma™]

IIRC, the deadline for responding to the custody case is 1/17/09. The court date is 2/4/09. No link, just my delightful memory. MUO

[Silsbee]

That's one possibility.

Another is that when Meredith entered the garage, the dog might have jumped up on her, or ran out of the garage, and she might have put her keys on Michelle's car. Then due to the horror she witnessed that day, and because Meredith always puts her keys on the kitchen counter, thought those were her keys on the kitchen counter.

Since crime scene photos form part of the case file, and Meredith's keys were photographed on "the victim's car", this was noted in the s/w.

Does anyone know if Michelle's car was backed into the garage or parked straight in?

I can't see her putting her keys down just because the dog jumped up on her and if he ran out then she would have to walk all the way to the front of the car to do that if it was parked straight in.

Sils

[Silsbee]

LE can't comment on the TOD because the ME didn't make it public.
I believe it is impossible to place Jason in Raleigh at TOD.

I think this is their biggest problem - they don't know how to put him in Raleigh at TOD.

My question is at what point to do they take all of the evidence that "implies" guilt and build a case that "implies" he could have made the trip back?

Sils

[Hey Paula]

LE can't comment on the TOD because the ME didn't make it public.
I believe it is impossible to place Jason in Raleigh at TOD.

Do you know what time JY was caught on video, wearing different clothes than he checked in with? TIA

[Hey Paula]

Does anyone know if Michelle's car was backed into the garage or parked straight in?

I can't see her putting her keys down just because the dog jumped up on her and if he ran out then she would have to walk all the way to the front of the car to do that if it was parked straight in.

Sils

If Meredith wanted to calm the dog down, she might have put her keys on Michelle's car as she was petting/soothing him.

[Lindsey]

I wonder if a sealed indictment has already been handed down, pending JY's arrest? And that perhaps that info, which cannot be revealed, is the reason it's sealed.

I don't know what the custody suit response filing deadline is. But, based upon JY's failure to respond to the WDS, somehow I doubt he will respond to the custody suit. JY is in protective mode to such a degree that he has allowed himself to be deemed the unchallenged "slayer" of his pregnant wife, despite knowing Cassidy will someday be aware of this.

For what good reason would they seal an indictment? I believe if they had one they would arrest him.

JMO

[Lindsey]

Happy New Year Lindsey,
I think you're right. The civil suits have nothing to do with the criminal case. I do believe they thought they could get him to talk when Linda filed the wrongful death suit but the outcome of that suit will not have any affect on a criminal trial if they ever get that far.

It does make you wonder what info could prevent them from making an arrest. IIRC he had 30 days to respond the the custody suit??

Sils

Happy New Year to you Sils!

It makes me very curious about the info they aren't allowed to talk about.

I think you're right about the 30 days response time for the custody suit but I couldn't remember when it was served on him.

[Lindsey]

IIRC, the deadline for responding to the custody case is 1/17/09. The court date is 2/4/09. No link, just my delightful memory. MUO

That sounds about right. Thank you.

[Silsbee]

If Meredith wanted to calm the dog down, she might have put her keys on Michelle's car as she was petting/soothing him.

Why not just drop them in front of her? It seems that walking to the front of Michelle's car to lay her keys down is more effort than is needed.

I don't know what the explanation might be for Meredith's keys to be on Michelle's car. I find the effort to put them there to deal with the dog to be awkward if the car was parked straight in.

I do believe at the time of the SW LE wanted an explanation as to why they were there. I don't think LE would have mentioned them at all if they thought it was nothing. Now what they concluded since then may have resulted in nothing but we don't know that for sure.

Sils

[Barbara2]

Happy New Year to you Sils!

It makes me very curious about the info they aren't allowed to talk about.

I think you're right about the 30 days response time for the custody suit but I couldn't remember when it was served on him.

It was sealed on the 17th of December and unsealed on the 19th. So I'm guessing either the 17th or 18th.

[Lindsey]

Does anyone know if Michelle's car was backed into the garage or parked straight in?

I can't see her putting her keys down just because the dog jumped up on her and if he ran out then she would have to walk all the way to the front of the car to do that if it was parked straight in.

Sils

Good question. And a very good point. I don't believe she put the keys on the car because of the dog. I wonder what her explanation was once it was discovered in the crime scene photos that the keys were mixed up.

JMO

[Lindsey]

Do you know what time JY was caught on video, wearing different clothes than he checked in with? TIA

I believe that was 11:59 PM Nov 2nd ... according to the timestamp.

[MerriMent]

I think this is their biggest problem - they don't know how to put him in Raleigh at TOD.

My question is at what point to do they take all of the evidence that "implies" guilt and build a case that "implies" he could have made the trip back?

Sils

They can't do that if they have a security tape that proves he was in the hotel at midnight and that time makes his presence in Raleigh at TOD an impossibility.

[Lindsey]

It was sealed on the 17th of December and unsealed on the 19th. So I'm guessing either the 17th or 18th.

Thank you Barbara. That time will be here before we know it.

[Lindsey]

They can't do that if they have a security tape that proves he was in the hotel at midnight and that time makes his presence in Raleigh at TOD an impossibility.

I believe if JY could be placed in Raleigh in the right time frame, he would have been behind bars a long time ago. I still think Michelle was murdered before she went to bed and I believe that was a time that it's proven Jason couldn't have been there.

JMO

[MerriMent]

I wonder if a sealed indictment has already been handed down, pending JY's arrest? And that perhaps that info, which cannot be revealed, is the reason it's sealed.

I don't know what the custody suit response filing deadline is. But, based upon JY's failure to respond to the WDS, somehow I doubt he will respond to the custody suit. JY is in protective mode to such a degree that he has allowed himself to be deemed the unchallenged "slayer" of his pregnant wife, despite knowing Cassidy will someday be aware of this.

Is Jason missing? Because I'm pretty sure LE knows where to find him if they want to arrest him.

Jason doesn't have to respond to the custody claim but I think he will.

[MerriMent]

I believe if JY could be placed in Raleigh in the right time frame, he would have been behind bars a long time ago. I still think Michelle was murdered before she went to bed and I believe that was a time that it's proven Jason couldn't have been there.

JMO

ITA. If there was a window of opportunity, LE would have arrested him and let a jury decide. I don't know if Michelle was already in bed or not when the killer entered the home but I'm also of the opinion Michelle died at a time that the security video proves was an impossibility for Jason to to be there.

[MerriMent]

Good question. And a very good point. I don't believe she put the keys on the car because of the dog. I wonder what her explanation was once it was discovered in the crime scene photos that the keys were mixed up.

JMO

Was she given an opportunity to explain? There's some reason a judge agreed with LE and sealed the warrant with this 'revelation.'

[Lindsey]

Was she given an opportunity to explain? There's some reason a judge agreed with LE and sealed the warrant with this 'revelation.'

I agree. They took a very long time to even return the warrant and then sealed it as long as the judge would allow. Sounds like they didn't want to tip her off they were suspicious. IMO

[achristie]

Is Jason missing? Because I'm pretty sure LE knows where to find him if they want to arrest him.

Jason doesn't have to respond to the custody claim but I think he will.


Is Jason missing? Who knows? But I'm glad you are pretty sure LE knows where to find him.

Jason doesn't have to respond to the custody claim? Can he hold onto his little girl if he doesn't respond? If so, I imagine he wouldn't bother.

I'm heartened to know that you think he will respond since you seem to have inside info. Will he be required to speak and answer questions? Or will he respond in writing through his attorney?

Enlighten me. How does that work?

MOO Aggie

[Hey Paula]

For what good reason would they seal an indictment? I believe if they had one they would arrest him.

JMO

Perhaps because that info, which cannot be revealed, is contained in the GJ transcripts. By sealing the indictment, the GJ transcript is also sealed and neither JY, nor his attorney, will have access to it.

Either that or JY had an accomplice. A sealed indictment would keep that info from the public and would ensure against the accomplice fleeing.

IMO

[Lindsey]

Perhaps because that info, which cannot be revealed, is contained in the GJ transcripts. By sealing the indictment, the GJ transcript is also sealed and neither JY, nor his attorney, will have access to it.

Either that or JY had an accomplice. A sealed indictment would keep that info from the public and would ensure against the accomplice fleeing.

IMO

The GJ transcripts are sealed forevermore, no matter what.

Unless NC is different in that regard too...

[Hey Paula]

The GJ transcripts are sealed forevermore, no matter what.

Unless NC is different in that regard too...

TMK, defense attorneys have access to GJ transcripts after an indictment has been returned, i.e., if the indictment isn't sealed.

[MerriMent]

Is Jason missing? Who knows? But I'm glad you are pretty sure LE knows where to find him.

Jason doesn't have to respond to the custody claim? Can he hold onto his little girl if he doesn't respond? If so, I imagine he wouldn't bother.

I'm heartened to know that you think he will respond since you seem to have inside info. Will he be required to speak and answer questions? Or will he respond in writing through his attorney?

Enlighten me. How does that work?

MOO Aggie


You've never heard of parental rights? Really?

The child's best interests are paramount to the court or do you need to be enlightened about that basic premise, too?

[MerriMent]

I agree. They took a very long time to even return the warrant and then sealed it as long as the judge would allow. Sounds like they didn't want to tip her off they were suspicious. IMO

Sounds to me that they didn't want to tip off Meredith's accomplice that they were suspicious.

[Hey Paula]

I believe that was 11:59 PM Nov 2nd ... according to the timestamp.

I just noticed this post. Thanks for your reply.

IIRC, the ME allowed quite a span for the TOD, which would have allowed JY the opportunity to commit this crime. I don't think it's necessary for JY to have been seen by anyone in Raleigh to win a conviction in this case, especially since JY was seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival, wearing dark and different clothing. TMK, he wasn't seen returning to the hotel after that.

[Hey Paula]

Sounds to me that they didn't want to tip off Meredith's accomplice that they were suspicious.

I can't believe you're still accusing Meredith of this horrendous crime in view of the amount of CE against JY contained in the warrants, along with his failure to respond to the WDS, thereby allowing himself to be deemed the unchallenged slayer of his wife and the mother of his daughter.

[achristie]

You've never heard of parental rights? Really?

The child's best interests are paramount to the court or do you need to be enlightened about that basic premise, too?

I know a bit about parental rights. Also know that the child's best interests are paramount, but you didn't answer my questions. Will JY speak and answer questions?

[Lindsey]

I just noticed this post. Thanks for your reply.

IIRC, the ME allowed quite a span for the TOD, which would have allowed JY the opportunity to commit this crime. I don't think it's necessary for JY to have been seen by anyone in Raleigh to win a conviction in this case, especially since JY was seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival, wearing dark and different clothing. TMK, he wasn't seen returning to the hotel after that.

The ME never released a TOD, IIRC. LE was asking for any info between the hours of 12:00 midnight and 6:00am. Some people seem to have taken that as meaning TOD.

I believe the hotel video showed Jason walking near an Exit but not actually leaving the hotel. I stand to be corrected if anyone has a link to info of video showing JY leaving.

[kingbuff]

I just noticed this post. Thanks for your reply.

IIRC, the ME allowed quite a span for the TOD, which would have allowed JY the opportunity to commit this crime. I don't think it's necessary for JY to have been seen by anyone in Raleigh to win a conviction in this case, especially since JY was seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival, wearing dark and different clothing. TMK, he wasn't seen returning to the hotel after that.

I think posters have wearied of correcting the errors. If you want to think the ME posted a TOD, and that Jason is seen leaving the hotel, keep spreading the word.

[MerriMent]

I know a bit about parental rights. Also know that the child's best interests are paramount, but you didn't answer my questions. Will JY speak and answer questions?

I didn't answer your questions because your questions make no sense. The claim doesn't require Jason Young to speak or answer questions.

[kingbuff]

I see Lindsey still has energy for corrections.

[achristie]

I believe if JY could be placed in Raleigh in the right time frame, he would have been behind bars a long time ago. I still think Michelle was murdered before she went to bed and I believe that was a time that it's proven Jason couldn't have been there.

JMO

What makes you think she was murdered before she went to bed?

[MerriMent]

I just noticed this post. Thanks for your reply.

IIRC, the ME allowed quite a span for the TOD, which would have allowed JY the opportunity to commit this crime. I don't think it's necessary for JY to have been seen by anyone in Raleigh to win a conviction in this case, especially since JY was seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival, wearing dark and different clothing. TMK, he wasn't seen returning to the hotel after that.

fyi: the ME didn't provide a TOD or a "span."

JY wasn't seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival.

[MerriMent]

I can't believe you're still accusing Meredith of this horrendous crime in view of the amount of CE against JY contained in the warrants, along with his failure to respond to the WDS, thereby allowing himself to be deemed the unchallenged slayer of his wife and the mother of his daughter.


I can't believe you're still misrepresenting the facts.

[achristie]

I didn't answer your questions because your questions make no sense. The claim doesn't require Jason Young to speak or answer questions.

That is your answer?:confused: So a non-answer. You can't validate what you said?

MOO Aggie

[enigma™]

I know a bit about parental rights. Also know that the child's best interests are paramount, but you didn't answer my questions. Will JY speak and answer questions?

Jason Lynn Young, "slayer", cannot speak. Anything he says can and will be held against him, and he has nothing to say that will clear him of this crime. "speak to my lawyer, I was in VA, prove I was not". He did something in VA to make it appear he never left. I say he did something with his cell phone - left the line open, or had someone ping it for him. Perhaps he bought a throw-away and pinged it while he was in transit. Whatever he did, it was a well-thought out plan, until Michelle decided she did not want to die by his hand(s).

[MerriMent]

That is your answer?:confused: So a non-answer. You can't validate what you said?

MOO Aggie

Yes, that is my answer. Sorry it confuses you so....

[Lindsey]

What makes you think she was murdered before she went to bed?


The way the house was described as being lit up inside and outside. I believe Michelle had not 'shut down' the house for the night yet.

The way she was dressed makes me think she had not gone to bed. Zipped and hooded sweatshirt? Nah

According to the AR, the stomach contents points to death in the late night hours (IMO) as opposed to early morning hours. Of course, that could depend on what the stomach contents were ... dinner food or food she snacked on later in the evening.

All JMO

[enigma™]

I think posters have wearied of correcting the errors. If you want to think the ME posted a TOD, and that Jason is seen leaving the hotel, keep spreading the word.

I believe you are just weary of defending the slayer. I am sorry for your loss. You mentored him, this must be a tough thing for you to go through. I hope you can withstand all that will be revealed once Jason is arrested. Much will be made of your relationship to the "slayer", have no doubt about that. or not... MUO

[Hey Paula]

The ME never released a TOD, IIRC. LE was asking for any info between the hours of 12:00 midnight and 6:00am. Some people seem to have taken that as meaning TOD.

I believe the hotel video showed Jason walking near an Exit but not actually leaving the hotel. I stand to be corrected if anyone has a link to info of video showing JY leaving.

Yes, that 6-hour span was what I was referring to. Although the ME hasn't released a TOD, I think LE's inquiries pertaining to those hours are meaningful in that regard.

Even if JY wasn't seen actually passing through an exit, most would question why JY would change clothes at that late hour, especially with a scheduled business meeting in the morning for which he had to drive a distance to attend. This only adds to the considerable amount of CE contained in the warrants, given the fact his wife was coincidentally murdered while he was "away".

[Jester]

That's one possibility.

Another is that when Meredith entered the garage, the dog might have jumped up on her, or ran out of the garage, and she might have put her keys on Michelle's car. Then due to the horror she witnessed that day, and because Meredith always puts her keys on the kitchen counter, thought those were her keys on the kitchen counter.

Since crime scene photos form part of the case file, and Meredith's keys were photographed on "the victim's car", this was noted in the s/w.

Maybe she opened the door between the garage and the house, and the dog jumped on her, and ran down the driveway? Do you think she absentmindedly put her keys on the car to call the dog, and then went into the house? Into the kitchen, through the living room, up the stairs, down the hall, and back tracked to the master bedroom?

Faint bloody foot prints in the hall, but none in the bed where Cassidy was found sleeping after noon. What do you make of that?

[Lindsey]

Yes, that 6-hour span was what I was referring to. Although the ME hasn't released a TOD, I think LE's inquiries pertaining to those hours are meaningful in that regard.

Even if JY wasn't seen actually passing through an exit, most would question why JY would change clothes at that late hour, especially with a scheduled business meeting in the morning for which he had to drive a distance to attend. This only adds to the considerable amount of CE contained in the warrants, given the fact his wife was coincidentally murdered while he was "away".

The investigators have had the video from the hotel since early Nov 2006. Apparently the video wasn't a 'smoking gun'.

[Jester]

I don't believe that's possible because I don't believe LE would ask her to wait for them in the garage.

She either waited for police in the house, or she waited outside. Many have criticized Meredith for not fleeing the building the minute she discovered her murdered sister. Maybe the police kept her talking inside the house, and maybe they advised her to take Cassidy and move outside.

Who knows whether they would go out the un-used front door or the connecting garage door.

If she left the keys there prior to discovering the murder, one has to wonder why she put the keys on her sister's lexus rather than on the counter, if that is where she usually leaves them. A bouncing dog is one explanation. I would have a problem if someone left their keys on my car.

When and why did Meredith put her keys on Michelle's car?

[Jester]

LE can't comment on the TOD because the ME didn't make it public.
I believe it is impossible to place Jason in Raleigh at TOD.

It's possible to place Jason outside of the crime scene only if you take into consideration that his alibi is sleeping alone in a hotel room two hours away.

It's also possible to place Jason at the crime scene if you take time of death at 2:30 (plausible). He was seen leaving the hotel at midnight. His keycard use does not add up to the number of times he was seen in the lobby. It is, in fact, short in terms of how often he entered the room. The card was used once, but if he was in the lobby at midnight, he should have had at least two uses. Most likely he used the card to make the room look used, then head back to the front desk.

It's plausible that he was in Raleigh, although, at this time, the only eyewitness is an early morning delivery person that could not see clearly in the dark.

[Jester]

But how are they the wrong keys? Her keys were on Michelle's car not Michelle's keys.

Sils

So she thought her keys were on the counter where she left them, and forgot that she picked them up on her way out the door? She must have been panicked when she came out of the house.

[Jester]

Do you know what time JY was caught on video, wearing different clothes than he checked in with? TIA

Wasn't it about 5 past midnight?

[Jester]

Why not just drop them in front of her? It seems that walking to the front of Michelle's car to lay her keys down is more effort than is needed.

I don't know what the explanation might be for Meredith's keys to be on Michelle's car. I find the effort to put them there to deal with the dog to be awkward if the car was parked straight in.

I do believe at the time of the SW LE wanted an explanation as to why they were there. I don't think LE would have mentioned them at all if they thought it was nothing. Now what they concluded since then may have resulted in nothing but we don't know that for sure.

Sils

Why would someone drop their keys on the ground when the dog jumped? My dogs jump, but I put my keys down somewhere other than the floor.

Other than the front of the lexus, where should she have put them? Is there a trunk in the back? I thought it was an SUV.

[Jester]

Good question. And a very good point. I don't believe she put the keys on the car because of the dog. I wonder what her explanation was once it was discovered in the crime scene photos that the keys were mixed up.

JMO

How are the keys mixed up? Her keys were found on the hood of her sister's car, and she thought she put them on the kitchen counter. Hmmm. How many others have done the same thing; made a mistake about where they left their keys, without any murder scenes to deal with?

Doesn't seem terrifically sinistre.

[Jester]

They can't do that if they have a security tape that proves he was in the hotel at midnight and that time makes his presence in Raleigh at TOD an impossibility.

Time of death could be between 2 and 3 AM, and he had time to make the drive. At this time, there is no tape other than him leaving the hotel at midnight.

[Jester]

ITA. If there was a window of opportunity, LE would have arrested him and let a jury decide. I don't know if Michelle was already in bed or not when the killer entered the home but I'm also of the opinion Michelle died at a time that the security video proves was an impossibility for Jason to to be there.

There is definitely a window of opportunity. The problem seems to be with securing the bars shut at the end of a trial. I don't think anyone is willing to compromise given the brutality of the murder of a pregnant wife and mother.

Give up on the other video placing Jason in the hotel at 1-4 in the morning. It's not there. His alibi was "sleeping."

[kingbuff]

Time of death could be between 2 and 3 AM, and he had time to make the drive. At this time, there is no tape other than him leaving the hotel at midnight.

Nobody wants to talk to you tonight?

[Jester]

Sounds to me that they didn't want to tip off Meredith's accomplice that they were suspicious.

Who is Meredith's accomplice?

[Hey Paula]

Maybe she opened the door between the garage and the house, and the dog jumped on her, and ran down the driveway? Do you think she absentmindedly put her keys on the car to call the dog, and then went into the house? Into the kitchen, through the living room, up the stairs, down the hall, and back tracked to the master bedroom?

Faint bloody foot prints in the hall, but none in the bed where Cassidy was found sleeping after noon. What do you make of that?

Yes, I think that's what might have happened. Meredith said the dog was freaking out, so I think he might have jumped up on her when Meredith opened the door.

The direction of the footprints in the hall might offer clues. IOW, were they heading into the MBR or out from the MBR. I think Cassidy might have walked into the bedroom during/after the bludgeoning, and was cleaned up afterward. I also believe JY took a shower before leaving the house. Perhaps that's when Cassidy entered the MBR.

IMO

[kingbuff]

The keys are not a problem. The cops used that excuse as a reason to check Michelle's car for blood, or so they claim. Why would there be any blood in the car? It was much later before Cassie's socks were bloodied. She was clean when she went for a ride.

[Jester]

The ME never released a TOD, IIRC. LE was asking for any info between the hours of 12:00 midnight and 6:00am. Some people seem to have taken that as meaning TOD.

I believe the hotel video showed Jason walking near an Exit but not actually leaving the hotel. I stand to be corrected if anyone has a link to info of video showing JY leaving.

Yes, some people have taken the midnight to 6 am time of interest specified by the police to suggest that this is the time of death. Some people have also taken into consideration rigor described in the 911 call. These two factors make it possible to place the time of death closer to about 2:30.

Jason was walking towards the exit around midnight the night before Michelle was found murdered, but was not seen going through the door. I guess, although he was walking towards the exit, we can't assume he actually went through the exit. Maybe he was playing in the hallway and did an aboutface when he got to the door. Given the carnage at his home the following afternoon, I'm skeptical.

[Hey Paula]

How are the keys mixed up? Her keys were found on the hood of her sister's car, and she thought she put them on the kitchen counter. Hmmm. How many others have done the same thing; made a mistake about where they left their keys, without any murder scenes to deal with?

Doesn't seem terrifically sinistre.

When my DH gets distracted he sometimes takes my keys, instead of his, if they're lying on the table. And the items attached to my keys make the appearance of my set of keys visibly different from his. Imagine how something like that could occur during such a horrific event.

Meredith's and Michelle's keys weren't swapped. Michelle's keys were always on the counter. Meredith thought they were hers because that's where she always put them.

IMO

[Jester]

I think posters have wearied of correcting the errors. If you want to think the ME posted a TOD, and that Jason is seen leaving the hotel, keep spreading the word.

The keycard was used once, right? That's what I remember anyway. He checked in before midnight. At midnight he was at the front desk in different clothes, and he was video taped heading towards the exit.

You may ask where his bags were, but we also know someone had tampered with the exit, propping it with a rock.

The time of death has not been refined beyond the time period between midnight and 6 am. It's plausible that Jason zipped home, and still made it to his meeting late.

[MerriMent]

She either waited for police in the house, or she waited outside. Many have criticized Meredith for not fleeing the building the minute she discovered her murdered sister. Maybe the police kept her talking inside the house, and maybe they advised her to take Cassidy and move outside.

Who knows whether they would go out the un-used front door or the connecting garage door.

If she left the keys there prior to discovering the murder, one has to wonder why she put the keys on her sister's lexus rather than on the counter, if that is where she usually leaves them. A bouncing dog is one explanation. I would have a problem if someone left their keys on my car.

When and why did Meredith put her keys on Michelle's car?

I don't believe LE suggested Meredith wait for their arrival in the garage and I doubt a jury will believe it, either. There really hasn't been a plausible explanation of when and why Meredith's keys ended up on Michelle's car. I doubt a jury will believe the bouncing dog scenario.

[Hey Paula]

Time of death could be between 2 and 3 AM, and he had time to make the drive. At this time, there is no tape other than him leaving the hotel at midnight.

ITA, and yes JY had plenty of time. He even arrived late for the morning meeting.

[Jester]

fyi: the ME didn't provide a TOD or a "span."

JY wasn't seen leaving the hotel within an hour of his arrival.

Let's think about that for a moment. The police, when investigating Michelle's murder, specified that they were interested in the time period of midnight to 6 am on the morning of November 3. Do you really think that they think the time of death is outside that time period? Seriously?

I think we know that the police believe that midnight to 6 am includes their suspected time of death span.

[MerriMent]

Yes, some people have taken the midnight to 6 am time of interest specified by the police to suggest that this is the time of death. Some people have also taken into consideration rigor described in the 911 call. These two factors make it possible to place the time of death closer to about 2:30.

Jason was walking towards the exit around midnight the night before Michelle was found murdered, but was not seen going through the door. I guess, although he was walking towards the exit, we can't assume he actually went through the exit. Maybe he was playing in the hallway and did an aboutface when he got to the door. Given the carnage at his home the following afternoon, I'm skeptical.

It is impossible to place the time of death just because the word, "stiff" was said on a 911 call. GMAB.

[Jester]

The way the house was described as being lit up inside and outside. I believe Michelle had not 'shut down' the house for the night yet.

The way she was dressed makes me think she had not gone to bed. Zipped and hooded sweatshirt? Nah

According to the AR, the stomach contents points to death in the late night hours (IMO) as opposed to early morning hours. Of course, that could depend on what the stomach contents were ... dinner food or food she snacked on later in the evening.

All JMO

It was described as lit up inside and out by the delivery person, after the murder. I don't think you can assume anything about what was going on before the murderer came home.

I don't recall that from the autopsy. Do you have a link?

[Jester]

The investigators have had the video from the hotel since early Nov 2006. Apparently the video wasn't a 'smoking gun'.

Neither is the size 12 orbital, but one day they'll all add up to a conviction.

[Jester]

According to that warrant LE doesn't believe she was in that bed. Nothing has been said about her sleeping. Every warrant says according to MF JY called her to go pick up some print outs. Doesn't LE have that voice mail? If so why don't they state it as a fact and not say according to MF?

Not true. Merriment linked a warrant earlier this evening that clearly says Cassidy was found in the bed, and both her feet and the sheets were clean ... yet there were bloody footprints, her size, in the bathroom and faintly in the hallway between her bathroom and the master bedroom.

I think this is the link: http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf


I'm not sure what to make of your other questions.

[MerriMent]

Let's think about that for a moment. The police, when investigating Michelle's murder, specified that they were interested in the time period of midnight to 6 am on the morning of November 3. Do you really think that they think the time of death is outside that time period? Seriously?

I think we know that the police believe that midnight to 6 am includes their suspected time of death span.


I never said that time of death was outside 12-6 Am, I said TOD has never been stated.

[Jester]

Nobody wants to talk to you tonight?

That's because they know I'm right.

It's a waste of space to debate whether the police thought the time of death was within their midnight to 6 am time span. What are they, stupid, and police think the time of death was 10 AM but they're not interested in that time, nope, they want to know what was going on 4-10 hours earlier.

Absurd!

[Jester]

The keys are not a problem. The cops used that excuse as a reason to check Michelle's car for blood, or so they claim. Why would there be any blood in the car? It was much later before Cassie's socks were bloodied. She was clean when she went for a ride.

We don't know that Cassidy went for a ride. We know that Meredith's keys were found on Michelle's lexus hood. We know that Cassidy was found on daddy's side of the bed, clean feet, clean sheets. We also know that Cassidy had walked through the blood, as there was blood on the floor and in the bathroom with her footprints. Clearly, someone cleaned her feet, as you've been saying for months. This doesn't suggest anything about Cassidy going anywhere in a car.

I think Jason cleaned her feet before drugging her enough to be still sleeping at noon.

[Jester]

When my DH gets distracted he sometimes takes my keys, instead of his, if they're lying on the table. And the items attached to my keys make the appearance of my set of keys visibly different from his. Imagine how something like that could occur during such a horrific event.

Meredith's and Michelle's keys weren't swapped. Michelle's keys were always on the counter. Meredith thought they were hers because that's where she always put them.

IMO

My keys ended up halfway across the country one morning - a case of mistaken keys. I easily understand how it can happen.

[Jester]

I don't believe LE suggested Meredith wait for their arrival in the garage and I doubt a jury will believe it, either. There really hasn't been a plausible explanation of when and why Meredith's keys ended up on Michelle's car. I doubt a jury will believe the bouncing dog scenario.

If her routine was to put them on the counter, but that particular morning she was confused, I think it's understandable.

[Jester]

It is impossible to place the time of death just because the word, "stiff" was said on a 911 call. GMAB.

Read up about rigor, and you'll find the time frame works.

[Lindsey]

It was described as lit up inside and out by the delivery person, after the murder. I don't think you can assume anything about what was going on before the murderer came home.

I don't recall that from the autopsy. Do you have a link?

I was asked why I believe Michelle was murdered before she went to bed. One reason is the way the house was lit up inside and out. To me, it sounds like she had walked her GA friend out or at least turned on the outside lights for her to leave, as most people do, and had not yet turned them off as in getting ready for bed. I can see why lights would be on downstairs and upstairs too if Michelle had not 'shut down' the house for the night.

I just turned off an outside light a minute ago even tho it's been a couple of hours since our guests left.

I'm sorry I don't have a link to the AR even tho someone posted it a few weeks ago when we were talking about this same subject.

[Jester]

I was asked why I believe Michelle was murdered before she went to bed. One reason is the way the house was lit up inside and out. To me, it sounds like she had walked her GA friend out or at least turned on the outside lights for her to leave, as most people do, and had not yet turned them off as in getting ready for bed. I can see why lights would be on downstairs and upstairs too if Michelle had not 'shut down' the house for the night.

I just turned off an outside light a minute ago even tho it's been a couple of hours since our guests left.

I'm sorry I don't have a link to the AR even tho someone posted it a few weeks ago when we were talking about this same subject.

I thought you were interested in accuracy, and had made comments about this in the past. If we are to be accurate, then we have to understand that the only report of the house lights being on both inside and outside of the house came from the delivery guy who witnessed activity at the house around 4:30 in the morning.

We cannot jump to conclusions about what lights were on or off before the witness saw a suspicious man and his light colored SUV in the early hours of the morning. That is, we do not know what lights were on when the suspicious man arrived at the house.

There is no information about what lights were on prior to the murder.

[MerriMent]

Not true. Merriment linked a warrant earlier this evening that clearly says Cassidy was found in the bed, and both her feet and the sheets were clean ... yet there were bloody footprints, her size, in the bathroom and faintly in the hallway between her bathroom and the master bedroom.

I think this is the link: http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf


I'm not sure what to make of your other questions.

Your lame spin is bordering on pathetic at this point.

Here's what the search warrant I linked says about Meredith's description of finding Cassidy:

"This description is in contrast to the small-bloodied footprints that were found on the floor of the child's bathroom.

There was a small visible trace of what appears to be blood on the hallway carpet between the child's bathroom and the decedent's bedroom. This would lead to the logical conclusion that the child had been carried from one room to the other in lieu of the amount of blood left on the bathroom floor."

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf

[MerriMent]

Read up about rigor, and you'll find the time frame works.

The word, "rigor" wasn't used on the call.

[Jester]

Your lame spin is bordering on pathetic at this point.

Here's what the search warrant I linked says about Meredith's description of finding Cassidy:

"This description is in contrast to the small-bloodied footprints that were found on the floor of the child's bathroom.

There was a small visible trace of what appears to be blood on the hallway carpet between the child's bathroom and the decedent's bedroom. This would lead to the logical conclusion that the child had been carried from one room to the other in lieu of the amount of blood left on the bathroom floor."

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/YoungWarrants120808.pdf

I don't care what they say is the logical conclusion.

There was visible trace of blood on the hallway carpet, and there was blood in the bathroom ... so they logically conclude the child was carried? Who put the visible trace of blood in the hallway if it wasn't the child? Was the small visible trace in the hallway from a size 12 hush puppy?

[Jester]

The word, "rigor" wasn't used on the call.

By whom? The dispatcher?

[Lindsey]

I thought you were interested in accuracy, and had made comments about this in the past. If we are to be accurate, then we have to understand that the only report of the house lights being on both inside and outside of the house came from the delivery guy who witnessed activity at the house around 4:30 in the morning.

We cannot jump to conclusions about what lights were on or off before the witness saw a suspicious man and his light colored SUV in the early hours of the morning. That is, we do not know what lights were on when the suspicious man arrived at the house.

There is no information about what lights were on prior to the murder.

Whoa. Speaking of accuracy, the delivery driver saw house lights and a light colored SUV parked near the house. I saw nothing about him seeing a man, suspicious or otherwise.

Most of the old articles are gone now but I do seem to remember neighbors talking about lights being on outside that night. Maybe somebody saved it and can post it. In the meantime I'll just have to say IIRC.

[MerriMent]

I thought you were interested in accuracy, and had made comments about this in the past. If we are to be accurate, then we have to understand that the only report of the house lights being on both inside and outside of the house came from the delivery guy who witnessed activity at the house around 4:30 in the morning.

We cannot jump to conclusions about what lights were on or off before the witness saw a suspicious man and his light colored SUV in the early hours of the morning. That is, we do not know what lights were on when the suspicious man arrived at the house.

There is no information about what lights were on prior to the murder.


There is no mention the witness saw a "suspicious man" and you know it and so do the rest of us. So why do you need to lie about it? Just curious as to why you want to waste everyone's time.

[MerriMent]

By whom? The dispatcher?


Noone used the word rigor on the 911 call.

[MerriMent]

I don't care what they say is the logical conclusion.

There was visible trace of blood on the hallway carpet, and there was blood in the bathroom ... so they logically conclude the child was carried? Who put the visible trace of blood in the hallway if it wasn't the child? Was the small visible trace in the hallway from a size 12 hush puppy?

The child was carried is a logical conclusion whether you agree with it or not. She'd didn't levitate herself, float to the bathroom and only then put down her footprints.

[Leanne Weich]

I don't believe LE suggested Meredith wait for their arrival in the garage and I doubt a jury will believe it, either. There really hasn't been a plausible explanation of when and why Meredith's keys ended up on Michelle's car. I doubt a jury will believe the bouncing dog scenario.

Meredith may not have been kept on the phone until LE arrived and may well have taken Casssidy out of the house before they arrived. When my sister found my mom dead in her home, she ran outside once she got off the phone to wait for help. She was too freaked out to stay inside with my mom's dead body - Meredith may have felt the same way or may have just wanted to get Cassidy away from her mom to take her mind off mommy lying on the floor, imo.

[MerriMent]

Whoa. Speaking of accuracy, the delivery driver saw house lights and a light colored SUV parked near the house. I saw nothing about him seeing a man, suspicious or otherwise.

Most of the old articles are gone now but I do seem to remember neighbors talking about lights being on outside that night. Maybe somebody saved it and can post it. In the meantime I'll just have to say IIRC.

Outside lights on that night and nights previous, according to this neighbor:


On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open.

Martin said he noticed the lights were left on a few days ago.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html

[Lindsey]

Outside lights on that night and nights previous, according to this neighbor:


On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open.

Martin said he noticed the lights were left on a few days ago.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html

Yes, that is one of the articles I remember. Thank you!

I believe the gray Honda sedan was Meredith's car. Wonder how she got back home that Friday since she left her car behind.

[MerriMent]

Meredith may not have been kept on the phone until LE arrived and may well have taken Casssidy out of the house before they arrived. When my sister found my mom dead in her home, she ran outside once she got off the phone to wait for help. She was too freaked out to stay inside with my mom's dead body - Meredith may have felt the same way or may have just wanted to get Cassidy away from her mom to take her mind off mommy lying on the floor, imo.

I find it unlikely that Meredith would take Cassidy into the garage and wait for LE to arrive. That scenario makes zero sense nor has LE said she claimed to have done that.

[Jester]

Whoa. Speaking of accuracy, the delivery driver saw house lights and a light colored SUV parked near the house. I saw nothing about him seeing a man, suspicious or otherwise.

Most of the old articles are gone now but I do seem to remember neighbors talking about lights being on outside that night. Maybe somebody saved it and can post it. In the meantime I'll just have to say IIRC.

Good, so you did read the article. The delivery guy saw the light colored SUV parked, and outside lights on. The house was also described as being lit up and the car parked like it was being loaded. That has nothing to do with that the scene was like when Michelle was murdered, so the lights tell us nothing about whether Michelle was awake or asleep.

It's in one of the warrants, though not sure which. Maybe the Feb 14.

[MerriMent]

Yes, that is one of the articles I remember. Thank you!

I believe the gray Honda sedan was Meredith's car. Wonder how she got back home that Friday since she left her car behind.

LE, neighbor, friend. Any number of ways, imo.

[Jester]

There is no mention the witness saw a "suspicious man" and you know it and so do the rest of us. So why do you need to lie about it? Just curious as to why you want to waste everyone's time.

I was checking to see who had read the information about when the lights were reportedly on. I guess we all saw the article, so there's really nothing to debate about what Michelle was doing several hours earlier, as the scene could have been altered by the murderer with the light colored SUV seen between midnight and 6 AM.

I'm not lying, I'm merely as misleading as you. Shall we end it now?

[Silsbee]

Why would someone drop their keys on the ground when the dog jumped? My dogs jump, but I put my keys down somewhere other than the floor.

Other than the front of the lexus, where should she have put them? Is there a trunk in the back? I thought it was an SUV.

When your dogs jump, you find it necessary to put your keys down? Hey Paula suggested she was trying to comfort the dog. If she was focusing on the dog (I am picturing her kneeling down to his level) then why not just drop them next to her and then pick them up when she is done. If the dog is that upset why waste time walking to the front of Michelle's car to put the keys down?

I don't think the keys were put on the hood of Michelle's car because of the dog.

JMO
Sils

[Jester]

Noone used the word rigor on the 911 call.

I never said anyone used the word rigor in the 911 call. I said that we knew about the rigor from the 911 call, or did you miss the part about Michelle being stiff and heavy, unmovable? That would be caused by rigor.

[Jester]

The child was carried is a logical conclusion whether you agree with it or not. She'd didn't levitate herself, float to the bathroom and only then put down her footprints.

Whether she levitated or was carried, who put the trace of visible blood on the carpet?

[MerriMent]

I was checking to see who had read the information about when the lights were reportedly on. I guess we all saw the article, so there's really nothing to debate about what Michelle was doing several hours earlier, as the scene could have been altered by the murderer with the light colored SUV seen between midnight and 6 AM.

I'm not lying, I'm merely as misleading as you. Shall we end it now?

I haven't lied about anything.

No man, no "murderer" was seen in a light-colored SUV. You own that lie and apparently you are unwilling to cease with it.

[MerriMent]

I never said anyone used the word rigor in the 911 call. I said that we knew about the rigor from the 911 call, or did you miss the part about Michelle being stiff and heavy, unmovable? That would be caused by rigor.

We don't know anything about rigor from the 911 call. You're fabricating your facts.

Meredith claimed Michelle's body was in a position that made it difficult to turn over. That has nothing to do with rigor. "Stiff" is meaningless in determining TOD because she didn't say what part of her body was "stiff."

[Jester]

I haven't lied about anything.

No man, no "murderer" was seen in a light-colored SUV. You own that lie and apparently you are unwilling to cease with it.

I was mistaken.

Were you mistaken when you suggested that the time frame of midnight to 6 am does not also represent the suspected time of death? Were you mistaken in thinking that the time of death was at some other time, but the police were not interested in that time frame?

Was someone mistaken in thinking that lights reportedly on while a light colored SUV was backed up to the garage at 4:30 in the morning meant that those same lights were on at midnight?

[MerriMent]

Whether she levitated or was carried, who put the trace of visible blood on the carpet?

A person who had contact with the floor.

[Lindsey]

Good, so you did read the article. The delivery guy saw the light colored SUV parked, and outside lights on. The house was also described as being lit up and the car parked like it was being loaded. That has nothing to do with that the scene was like when Michelle was murdered, so the lights tell us nothing about whether Michelle was awake or asleep.

It's in one of the warrants, though not sure which. Maybe the Feb 14.

So, you deliberately misstated what the newspaper carrier said ... just testing me, eh? I sure am glad I paid attention and had the right answer. :glare:

There is no need to keep debating the lights issue with me. I was asked by another poster why I thought Michelle was murdered before she went to bed. The lights were one of my reasons. It's my opinion.

[Silsbee]

The keys are not a problem. The cops used that excuse as a reason to check Michelle's car for blood, or so they claim. Why would there be any blood in the car? It was much later before Cassie's socks were bloodied. She was clean when she went for a ride.

So are you saying that you believe Cassie was taken from the home in Michelle's car and then was brought back and it was then she stepped in her mother's blood?

Sils

[Jester]

We don't know anything about rigor from the 911 call. You're fabricating your facts.

Meredith claimed Michelle's body was in a position that made it difficult to turn over. That has nothing to do with rigor. "Stiff" is meaningless in determining TOD because she didn't say what part of her body was "stiff."

I'm using common sense. Michelle was in rigor when she was found, as described by Meredith in the 911 call. You should listen to the information in the phone call, rather than judge it.

[Jester]

So, you deliberately misstated what the newspaper carrier said ... just testing me, eh? I sure am glad I paid attention and had the right answer. :glare:

There is no need to keep debating the lights issue with me. I was asked by another poster why I thought Michelle was murdered before she went to bed. The lights were one of my reasons. It's my opinion.

The car was backed up to the house, outside lights were on, inside lights were on, the vehicle was seen by a delivery person, and the SUV looked like it was being loaded. There was a suspicious person at that light colored SUV, whether he was seen or not.

[Hey Paula]

I never said anyone used the word rigor in the 911 call. I said that we knew about the rigor from the 911 call, or did you miss the part about Michelle being stiff and heavy, unmovable? That would be caused by rigor.

This site describes the various stages of postmortem, the changes exhibited, and the postmortem time frame for each change.

http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html

[Lindsey]

I was mistaken.

Were you mistaken when you suggested that the time frame of midnight to 6 am does not also represent the suspected time of death? Were you mistaken in thinking that the time of death was at some other time, but the police were not interested in that time frame?

Was someone mistaken in thinking that lights reportedly on while a light colored SUV was backed up to the garage at 4:30 in the morning meant that those same lights were on at midnight?



SUV backed up to the garage at 4:30?? How about parked near the home between 4 - 5 am?


Goodnight.

[MerriMent]

I was mistaken.

Were you mistaken when you suggested that the time frame of midnight to 6 am does not also represent the suspected time of death? Were you mistaken in thinking that the time of death was at some other time, but the police were not interested in that time frame?

Was someone mistaken in thinking that lights reportedly on while a light colored SUV was backed up to the garage at 4:30 in the morning meant that those same lights were on at midnight?

I didn't suggest the 12-6 am time frame does or does not represent the TOD.

I'm pretty sure the ME was able to establish TOD within a 2-hour or less window and LE are well aware of it. I'm pretty sure LE can't put Jason in Raliegh in that 2 hour or less window.

[Silsbee]

That's because they know I'm right.

It's a waste of space to debate whether the police thought the time of death was within their midnight to 6 am time span. What are they, stupid, and police think the time of death was 10 AM but they're not interested in that time, nope, they want to know what was going on 4-10 hours earlier.

Absurd!

I am reading the same posts you are and I did not see anyone make claims that the time of death was outside the 12-6am window. What I read was that LE has not disclosed the TOD.

Sils

[Silsbee]

We don't know that Cassidy went for a ride. We know that Meredith's keys were found on Michelle's lexus hood. We know that Cassidy was found on daddy's side of the bed, clean feet, clean sheets. We also know that Cassidy had walked through the blood, as there was blood on the floor and in the bathroom with her footprints. Clearly, someone cleaned her feet, as you've been saying for months. This doesn't suggest anything about Cassidy going anywhere in a car.

I think Jason cleaned her feet before drugging her enough to be still sleeping at noon.

LE suggested she went for a ride in the car per the SW.

Sils

[MerriMent]

So, you deliberately misstated what the newspaper carrier said ... just testing me, eh? I sure am glad I paid attention and had the right answer. :glare:

There is no need to keep debating the lights issue with me. I was asked by another poster why I thought Michelle was murdered before she went to bed. The lights were one of my reasons. It's my opinion.

Ah, yes, it seems this is a game to Jester. I'll scroll more.

[Silsbee]

I thought you were interested in accuracy, and had made comments about this in the past. If we are to be accurate, then we have to understand that the only report of the house lights being on both inside and outside of the house came from the delivery guy who witnessed activity at the house around 4:30 in the morning.

We cannot jump to conclusions about what lights were on or off before the witness saw a suspicious man and his light colored SUV in the early hours of the morning. That is, we do not know what lights were on when the suspicious man arrived at the house.

There is no information about what lights were on prior to the murder.

Yes accuracy and facts are always welcomed but this is a message board that allows posters to express opinions on the information made available to the public. Haven't you been doing the same thing?

Sils

[MerriMent]

I'm using common sense. Michelle was in rigor when she was found, as described by Meredith in the 911 call. You should listen to the information in the phone call, rather than judge it.

Meredith didn't describe rigor on the 911 call.

[Silsbee]

I don't care what they say is the logical conclusion.

There was visible trace of blood on the hallway carpet, and there was blood in the bathroom ... so they logically conclude the child was carried? Who put the visible trace of blood in the hallway if it wasn't the child? Was the small visible trace in the hallway from a size 12 hush puppy?


If there was only a trace amount of blood in the hall (ie small amount) and a large amount of blood was found in the bathroom I do believe the logical conclusion is she did not walk down the hall. The logical conclusion is that a small amount dripped on the carpet as she was carried. Makes since LE.

Sils

[Silsbee]

Whoa. Speaking of accuracy, the delivery driver saw house lights and a light colored SUV parked near the house. I saw nothing about him seeing a man, suspicious or otherwise.

Most of the old articles are gone now but I do seem to remember neighbors talking about lights being on outside that night. Maybe somebody saved it and can post it. In the meantime I'll just have to say IIRC.

Hi Lindsey, good catch - I read right past that. I remember the neighbor's comments as well. If I weren't so tired I would look for the article. Maybe tomorrow.

Sils

[Silsbee]

Outside lights on that night and nights previous, according to this neighbor:


On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open.

Martin said he noticed the lights were left on a few days ago.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html

Thanks MerriMent - this is the one I remember.

Sils

[annalyzer]

When your dogs jump, you find it necessary to put your keys down? Hey Paula suggested she was trying to comfort the dog. If she was focusing on the dog (I am picturing her kneeling down to his level) then why not just drop them next to her and then pick them up when she is done. If the dog is that upset why waste time walking to the front of Michelle's car to put the keys down?

I don't think the keys were put on the hood of Michelle's car because of the dog.

JMO
Sils

I can pet a dog and hold keys at the same time. :cool:

[annalyzer]

Not true. Merriment linked a warrant earlier this evening that clearly says Cassidy was found in the bed, and both her feet and the sheets were clean ... ~ snipped

That info would also have to be "according to Meredith".

[Cardinal]

I don't think Michelle had yet gone to bed that night. I think she was still up and about, dealing with all the last-minute preparations for the Homecoming Weekend house party. Maybe the killer was surprised that she was still up.

I still think the point being made in the SW was that Michelle's keys were - atypically - on the kitchen counter. And maybe Meredith put her keys on the hood of the SUV when she was leaving the house - after picking them up from the kitchen counter. She was likely carrying Cassidy, and would have needed a free hand to raise the garage door. At that point, she probably didn't care where she laid the keys. If, after raising the door, she was met with arriving WCSO officers, she might not have picked up her keys afterward. I don't imagine she was allowed back into the house after that, and I think her car is the one referenced in the N&O article, so she apparently didn't drive home. So maybe her keys were returned to her later by LE, and she never realized where she left them.

[Cardinal]

And maybe the vehicle seen by the newspaper carrier was actually Michelle's SUV - which had been moved out of the garage to make room for the killer's vehicle. So the killer's vehicle was out of view while it was filled with gas from cans in the garage, and loaded with various items.

After which Michelle's keys were tossed on the kitchen counter rather than returned to their usual place.

JMO

[5swab5]

Outside lights on that night and nights previous, according to this neighbor:


On Friday, a porch light and two lampposts on brick pillars beside the driveway burned, and a pumpkin rested on the front stoop. A gray Honda sedan was parked in the driveway near two basketball hoops, one of them child-size. A garage door was left half open.

Martin said he noticed the lights were left on a few days ago.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/506181.html


I would imagine that the CSIs left the lights the way they found them until they had everything documented. We know from a SW, that a newspaper delivery person said that the house was uncharacteristically lit-up.

Maybe they were waiting for Jason to do a walk through and let them know what was normal usage for the BirchLeaf house. Guess they are still waiting.:cursing:

MOO

[Silsbee]

I don't think Michelle had yet gone to bed that night. I think she was still up and about, dealing with all the last-minute preparations for the Homecoming Weekend house party. Maybe the killer was surprised that she was still up.

I still think the point being made in the SW was that Michelle's keys were - atypically - on the kitchen counter. And maybe Meredith put her keys on the hood of the SUV when she was leaving the house - after picking them up from the kitchen counter. She was likely carrying Cassidy, and would have needed a free hand to raise the garage door. At that point, she probably didn't care where she laid the keys. If, after raising the door, she was met with arriving WCSO officers, she might not have picked up her keys afterward. I don't imagine she was allowed back into the house after that, and I think her car is the one referenced in the N&O article, so she apparently didn't drive home. So maybe her keys were returned to her later by LE, and she never realized where she left them.

Good Morning Card. I also believe that Michelle had not yet gone to bed - it's just a feeling based on some of the info we know.

I still have the same question - was Michelle's car backed in? Wasn't there something closer to lay her keys on rather than the hood of Michelle's car? Actually I think I would have put Cassie down then opened the garage door.

Why didn't LE just ask Meredith about the keys? There was a reason it was included in the SW. If the issue was already resolved then why did they need to reference it at all?

I am curious to know at what point LE knew the keys were MF's? They seemed to still be confused about the issue of the keys in the summer of 2007.

Sils

BBL - Many errands to run today. Have a nice day!