Dec. 22nd thru 12/29

[Justice_Dawg]

I just can't imagine being his mother and having to take him back there today. I hope Eryn is a really, really strong person; she's going to need to be if she's to see her son through all of this.

Only the media said he went back today. :biggrin:

[Hawk]

Only the media said he went back today. :biggrin:

What does that mean? (I'm dense).

[suzanne]

Well,Good night.I need to be with my 5 year old son tommy.He is getting real sick with earaches and chest colds and just real sick.I am bringing him to the Drs early tommorrow morning.

[GentleBreeze]

Well,Good night.I need to be with my 5 year old son tommy.He is getting real sick with earaches and chest colds and just real sick.I am bringing him to the Drs early tomorrow morning.

I sure hope he feels much better soon, suzanne

[Details]

I believe they looked at Mr. Romans cell phone and saw that the call to his wife began at 4:52pm and ended 2 1/2 minutes later.

It's strange that SGT Rodriguez broke the bad news to Mrs. Romans over the phone from Mr. Romans mothers home in San Carlos. Mesa is only 80 miles from San Carlos. It seems a face to face would have been more appropriate. And they could have gotten a recorded statement from her then rather than later at the funeral home in St. Johns.It is so strange. It's always true that the first suspects for any murder are the spouses and girlfriends, then any friends, family, etc. It's simply what the statistics say. And telling someone their spouse is dead - I thought they always did that in person if they could. 80 miles - it's not that far. Both for compassion - and for suspicion - and for a statement and to learn about other possible suspects (Did your husband have any enemies?) - how would they not go there?

[muska]

It is so strange. It's always true that the first suspects for any murder are the spouses and girlfriends, then any friends, family, etc. It's simply what the statistics say. And telling someone their spouse is dead - I thought they always did that in person if they could. 80 miles - it's not that far. Both for compassion - and for suspicion - and for a statement and to learn about other possible suspects (Did your husband have any enemies?) - how would they not go there?

I had not thought about this but now that you point it out, it is very strange. I wonder if they already had someone in mind as the shooter that first night and if they did, was it the boy or someone else? Of course, it could also be just another example of poor police work.

[Crispy]

I thought he worked for Zachary Construction? And she works elsewhere like Salt River Project or something like that.

He may be real close to his daughters. He could have told them not to tell their mom and even the one that didn't like it, may not want to hurt her mom by telling her.

I doubt her income is enough to sustain them or to keep the girls in college and Tim's wages may have been way more and actually took care of all the responsibilities.

imoo

I meant to respond to this earlier, I think they worked for the same company in a round about way. Salt River Project and Zachary Construction work together, I think ZC was a contractor for Salt River Project or something like that. Didn't VR's gloves have SRP on them? My power supply died on my laptop so I'm using hubby's computer and it is slow as all get out and would take me forever to look up the pictures. I'll feel better when I have my computer back.

[Justice_Dawg]

Apparently, you have some inside information that the rest of us don't have. So are we to presume that you have an "in" with the boy's mother and she told you that the boy has not been returned? Is that what your cryptic message is supposed to be tipping us to? tisk tisk, JD. Loose lips sink ships. :no:

If you find the article, it says until "at the least" his birthday. Media really didn't know.

[Hawk]

It is so strange. It's always true that the first suspects for any murder are the spouses and girlfriends, then any friends, family, etc. It's simply what the statistics say. And telling someone their spouse is dead - I thought they always did that in person if they could. 80 miles - it's not that far. Both for compassion - and for suspicion - and for a statement and to learn about other possible suspects (Did your husband have any enemies?) - how would they not go there?

Maybe Chief Melnick figured it out by the shell casing locations when he got there and figured it was the boy from the start. He sure came out strong at the news briefing, wanting an adult trial, premeditated, etc..
He may have had mental conflict, though, like the rest of us, due to the boys age and small size. And he's struggling for a motive.
This thing is bound to tough on everyone.

[Details]

Maybe Chief Melnick figured it out by the shell casing locations when he got there and figured it was the boy from the start. He sure came out strong at the news briefing, wanting an adult trial, premeditated, etc..
He may have had mental conflict, though, like the rest of us, due to the boys age and small size. And he's struggling for a motive.
This thing is bound to tough on everyone.Nah. Mr. Monk combined with Sherlock Holmes wouldn't have been that sure, with that little data. Shell casing locations don't say a thing about the age nor height of the killer.

[Hawk]

If you find the article, it says until "at the least" his birthday. Media really didn't know.

It'd great if she could keep him until the hearing next Tuesday. Him being in jail serves no purpose whatsoever.

[Justice_Dawg]

Maybe Chief Melnick figured it out by the shell casing locations when he got there and figured it was the boy from the start. He sure came out strong at the news briefing, wanting an adult trial, premeditated, etc..
He may have had mental conflict, though, like the rest of us, due to the boys age and small size. And he's struggling for a motive.
This thing is bound to tough on everyone.

This judge wouldn't be issuing furlough's and telling Pros. and defense to KEEP INVESTIGATING if he thought the boy was guilty.

[Hawk]

Nah. Mr. Monk combined with Sherlock Holmes wouldn't have been that sure, with that little data. Shell casing locations don't say a thing about the age nor height of the killer.

No, but they show that the chipmunk, or similar weapon, was used.

[ChildsVOICE]

So the mossburg case was found OPEN, but empty, except for the manual at the foot VR and TR's bed.

Odd, very very odd.

In one of the police reports someone told an investigator that there should be two handguns in Tims truck but only one was taken into evidence. (See other posting this page.)

Could there be two guns missing from this crime scene?

[Hawk]

This judge wouldn't be issuing furlough's and telling Pros. and defense to KEEP INVESTIGATING if he thought the boy was guilty.

I'm not sure guilt enters into the equation. The judge is, of course, looking at it from a legal standpoint. This boy can not possibly be competent to stand trial. And shouldn't.

[Justice_Dawg]

No, but they show that the chipmunk, or similar weapon, was used.

Grandpa Leroy had one just like it, "Septin it was a little bigger but used the same shells" and kept it at the boys house.

[Hawk]

In one of the police reports someone told an investigator that there should be two handguns in Tims truck but only one was taken into evidence. (See other posting this page.)

Could there be two guns missing from this crime scene?

The missing gun from the truck is a large bore revolver, according to Mr. Romans co-workers. It wasn't used in these murders.

[Justice_Dawg]

I'm not sure guilt enters into the equation. The judge is, of course, looking at it from a legal standpoint. This boy can not possibly be competent to stand trial. And shouldn't.

I see a "case dismissed With prejudice" coming on the 6th.
Any bet takers?:tonguewag:

imo

[Justice_Dawg]

The missing gun is a large bore revolver, according to Mr. Romans co-workers. It wasn't used in these murders.

Leroys gun is where?

[Hawk]

I see a "case dismissed With prejudice" coming on the 6th.
Any bet takers?:tonguewag:

imo

I hope so, as long this youngster gets some serious prime-time long term psychiatric help. And stays away from guns.

[Hawk]

Grandpa Leroy had one just like it, "Septin it was a little bigger but used the same shells" and kept it at the boys house.

If it's the Mossberg it wasn't used. Not on Mr. Romero anyway.

[Justice_Dawg]

If it's the Mossberg it wasn't used. Not on Mr. Romero anyway.

And Why not??

[Justice_Dawg]

I hope so, as long this youngster gets some serious prime-time long term psychiatric help. And stays away from guns.

Are you saying he is the killer! :confused:

[muska]

Maybe Chief Melnick figured it out by the shell casing locations when he got there and figured it was the boy from the start. He sure came out strong at the news briefing, wanting an adult trial, premeditated, etc..
He may have had mental conflict, though, like the rest of us, due to the boys age and small size. And he's struggling for a motive.
This thing is bound to tough on everyone.

I wouldn't be that surprised if the cheif is claiming your theory as his own some time soon. To be honest, I don't see Melnick having a real tough time with this. He was smirking in the early pictures and was very anxious to get himself on television....would have made it onto national television if the gag order had been an hour later.That was probably disappointing. I think he was enjoying his "precedence setting case."

Arizona's senior forensic pathologist, someone by the name of Keen, looked at the autopsy report and said that he believed the evidence will show that the first shot came from below VR on the staircase and that shot struck VR in the back. He discussed the size of the hole and the angle...seemed to know enough from what he'd seen. Time will tell.

[Hawk]

And Why not??

Because the casing locations are wrong. Plus five were found inside. The Mossberg spits the empties out at the spot were it is fired. The Chipmunk rounds can be ejected anywhere the shooter has moved to.

[Details]

If it's the Mossberg it wasn't used. Not on Mr. Romero anyway.How would you know that? The police don't have ballistics back - not that I think even the ballistics will tell for sure which variety of gun was used - only which gun was and was not used.

[Justice_Dawg]

Because the casing locations are wrong. Plus five were found inside. The Mossberg spits the empties out at the spot were it is fired. The Chipmunk rounds can be ejected anywhere the shooter has moved to.

Leroys .22 was a single shot also. Please do not confuse it with the mossburg.

:biggrin:

[muska]

The missing gun from the truck is a large bore revolver, according to Mr. Romans co-workers. It wasn't used in these murders.

It could have been taken by the shooter.

[Dallasnc]

I see a "case dismissed With prejudice" coming on the 6th.
Any bet takers?:tonguewag:

imo

I need to get up early that day and make my birthday wish. I hope I get it! I need to work from home or take the day off to keep up with updates.

[muska]

If it's the Mossberg it wasn't used. Not on Mr. Romero anyway.

I don't think you can be so sure of that. Who's to say that the casings were even found where they fell? The police and the boy were in there, up and down the staircase.

[Hawk]

I wouldn't be that surprised if the chief is claiming your theory as his own some time soon. To be honest, I don't see Melnick having a real tough time with this. He was smirking in the early pictures and was very anxious to get himself on television....would have made it onto national television if the gag order had been an hour later.That was probably disappointing. I think he was enjoying his "precedence setting case."

Arizona's senior forensic pathologist, someone by the name of Keen, looked at the autopsy report and said that he believed the evidence will show that the first shot came from below VR on the staircase and that shot struck VR in the back. He discussed the size of the hole and the angle...seemed to know enough from what he'd seen. Time will tell.

I'm sorry. I wasn't defending the chief. I'm just looking at the little bit of evidence available and trying to figure it out. The shot to Mr. Romero's back ended up in his abdomen, but could have hit a bone and deflected downward. It's just that the casing don't match that theory. Dr. Keen is a million times more qualified than I am, of course, but he may not have known the casing locations.
The good news is that Mr. Brewer will have an excellent expert in Mr. Haag to do the Shooting Incident Evaluation & Reconstruction.

With all my heart I hope I am wrong and that Mr. Haag can prove it.
I'm still on the boys side. If he did this there has to be a reason that was valid to him.

[Justice_Dawg]

I need to get up early that day and make my birthday wish. I hope I get it! I need to work from home or take the day off to keep up with updates.

That is your birthday??? OH COOL! Happy Birthday early! I hope you get your wish too!!

[Hawk]

Leroys .22 was a single shot also. Please do not confuse it with the mossburg.

:biggrin:

I'm sorry. That isn't what the boy said. He said it was bigger and shoots the same kind of bullets. He didn't say it's a single shot. Or did I miss something?

[Justice_Dawg]

I'm sorry. That isn't what the boy said. He said it was bigger and shoots the same kind of bullets. He didn't say it's a single shot. Or did I miss something?

They probably have my dad's fingerprints and I think Tim uses those guns sometimes and my grandpa has his gun over there.

Which grandpa?

um Leroy He has the same gun as me cept bigger

A chipmunk gun too?

No it's different cept it has the same bullets
-------------------
In a child's mind, it is the same gun only a little bigger.

[Hawk]

I don't think you can be so sure of that. Who's to say that the casings were even found where they fell? The police and the boy were in there, up and down the staircase.

It's highly unlikely that the cops would have moved them. And if the boy was aware of their importance he would have picked them up and discarded them before going to a neighbors.

[Hawk]

They probably have my dad's fingerprints and I think Tim uses those guns sometimes and my grandpa has his gun over there.

Which grandpa?

um Leroy He has the same gun as me cept bigger

A chipmunk gun too?

No it's different cept it has the same bullets
-------------------
In a child's mind, it is the same gun only a little bigger.

My goodness. You aren't suggesting that Leroy Romero killed his son then blamed it on his grandson? That's a bit rich, ain't it?

[muska]

I'm sorry. That isn't what the boy said. He said it was bigger and shoots the same kind of bullets. He didn't say it's a single shot. Or did I miss something?

Even if the shootings occurred in the order you suggest, there is nothing new to suggest the boy did it. He says in the confession he shot his dad, then he shot Tim, then went upstairs and shot his dad. It's all rambling, nothing that makes much sense.

I don't think this child did this and I definitely don't think he planned it out and did it on his own. If anything, I might be able to believe that he's still covering for someone....either someone he really loves or someone he's afraid to tell on. There are just too many little things, too many things that the boy says that don't fit....

[Justice_Dawg]

My goodness. You aren't suggesting that Leroy Romero killed his son then blamed it on his grandson? That's a bit rich, ain't it?

I am saying an adult could have used it.
Tiffany is still #1 in my book. ok?

[muska]

It's highly unlikely that the cops would have moved them. And if the boy was aware of their importance he would have picked them up and discarded them before going to a neighbors.

The other night you were pretty annoyed with some of the other posters for seeming so positive that the boy did it. You were positive, he didn't. I don't think the boy did, but I'm not positive. I definitely have a few more theories in the back of my mind. No one is positive but the child is eight and he deserves every benefit of the doubt.

[Hawk]

I am saying an adult could have used it.
Tiffany is still #1 in my book. ok?

Okay. Good. Sorry I mistook what you were saying.

[muska]

It's highly unlikely that the cops would have moved them. And if the boy was aware of their importance he would have picked them up and discarded them before going to a neighbors.

You have more confidence in the St Johns police than I do.

[Hawk]

The other night you were pretty annoyed with some of the other posters for seeming so positive that the boy did it. You were positive, he didn't. I don't think the boy did, but I'm not positive. I definitely have a few more theories in the back of my mind. No one is positive but the child is eight and he deserves every benefit of the doubt.

Yes, I was. Adamantly. That was before the evidence was posted. Now I wish I hadn't read it. I've sorted through as best I could and came up with an opinion. I'm no expert at anything. Just try to reason things out as best as my pea-brain will allow.
But I think we all want to know the truth and posting our individual theories helps the process along, don't you think.
He definitely deserves every benefit of the doubt. And more.

[ChildsVOICE]

This bothers me.The little boy hid his underware?Do you know where he hid it?The police took it as evidence?

This bothered me too. My first thought was they may want to test it for sexual abuse.

However, upon more thought, as a mother of an 8 year old boy and sister to three brothers here's a thought. Perhaps, Scenario #1 the boy had "markings" from gas and was too embarrassed, ashamed or afraid to show to the parent(s) or Scenario #2 Sometimes my kids bring home a packed case from an overnight stay at a friend or grandparents home and they don't unpack everything out of the case. There may have been other items in the case but the police may have only decided to take the underwear into evidence since they were using the "possible abuse" theory for awhile.


????Who knows?????

[ChildsVOICE]

Tiffany Ann Devall owns two properties in St. Johns.
One is in Coronado Estates. The other is in Sunset acres, which I believe is the crime scene house on West 7th North.
There are no records of Vincent Romero owning property in Apache county.

Did Vincent & Tiffany have a car and whose was it, Tiffany's or his? because was it pure convenience that Vincent rode to work with Tim?

and one big thing I've been wondering since day one....

Who's (nice & expensive) RV is seen in the various police photos? In some photos the police tape goes around the RV as if its part of the police crime so I assume its either Vincent's, Tim's or Tiffany's RV.

How does the ownership match to the facts that either Vincent's father or uncle told police that Vincent had complained about Tim having not paid the rent for three weeks and that the rent was $50 per week? or how does it match to property ownership?
(See police reports posted earlier.)

[Hawk]

Did Vincent & Tiffany have a car and whose was it, Tiffany's or his? because was it pure convenience that Vincent rode to work with Tim?

and one big thing I've been wondering since day one....

Who's (nice & expensive) RV is seen in the various police photos? In some photos the police tape goes around the RV as if its part of the police crime so I assume its either Vincent's, Tim's or Tiffany's RV.

How does the ownership match to the facts that either Vincent's father or uncle told police that Vincent had complained about Tim having not paid the rent for three weeks and that the rent was $50 per week? or how does it match to property ownership?
(See police reports posted earlier.)

I heard on KTAR radio when they were broadcasting from St. Johns before the 1st hearing and had received the REAL crime scene photos and press information package that the Jeep Tiffany Romero drives is in Tonya Romans name. I haven't heard, nor read, it anywhere else so don't know the truth of it. Maybe another poster does.
I believe the RV belonged to Mr. Romero.
Mr. Romans truck is also in Tonya Romans name.
The crime scene house is in Tiffany Romeros name (taxes are owed).
For some reason these men had their property in their wives names.

[ChildsVOICE]

Ok,Thank you.That's why I thought this little boy would be let go.Because he would not be able to help with his defense.

Its my opinion the Judge knows there is no way an 8 year old child can be found competent and is just passing the buck to the therapists and, in the meantime, still is able to claim he is falling the due process of the law. I think he is just waiting to make it official that the boy cannot stand trial. In the meantime, allowing for the police to have the time necessary to come up with some evidence or lack of evidence. I believe that by keeping him him at the Detention Center it prevents the boy's mother from taking the child over state lines to Mississippi where they would have a greater difficulty expediting the boy back to AZ. In one sense, I think for all concerned by having no more information to go on than the Judge had in the beginning considering all the lies that were going around by certain authorities, it was his only option to keep close tabs on the boy, perhaps being frightened for the child's safety, as well. However, I wish they would have chosen House Arrest (with an electronic ankle bracelet, worse case scenario) with some type of witness protection program protection. I can't stand to see how this child has been treated but I can appreciate the position of the Judge needing to get to the truth while keeping close tabs on the boy. I think there is enough evidence, now, to just dismiss this case and let the child go home with his mother and let them "get the heck out of Dodge", so to speak.

[Justice_Dawg]

Its my opinion the Judge knows there is no way an 8 year old child can be found competent and is just passing the buck to the therapists and, in the meantime, still is able to claim he is falling the due process of the law. I think he is just waiting to make it official that the boy cannot stand trial. In the meantime, allowing for the police to have the time necessary to come up with some evidence or lack of evidence. I believe that by keeping him him at the Detention Center it prevents the boy's mother from taking the child over state lines to Mississippi where they would have a greater difficulty expediting the boy back to AZ. In one sense, I think for all concerned by having no more information to go on than the Judge had in the beginning considering all the lies that were going around by certain authorities, it was his only option to keep close tabs on the boy, perhaps being frightened for the child's safety, as well. However, I wish they would have chosen House Arrest (with an electronic ankle bracelet, worse case scenario) with some type of witness protection program protection. I can't stand to see how this child has been treated but I can appreciate the position of the Judge needing to get to the truth while keeping close tabs on the boy. I think there is enough evidence, now, to just dismiss this case and let the child go home with his mother and let them "get the heck out of Dodge", so to speak.
Ah yes...Tiffany did tell police right away that she and VR were afraid Eryn would kidnap the boy.
:glare:

[Hawk]

[QUOTE=Justice_Dawg;12592824]Ah yes...Tiffany did tell police right away that she and VR were afraid Eryn would kidnap the boy.
:glare:[/QUOT

I wish she had.

[Justice_Dawg]

Ah yes...Tiffany did tell police right away that she and VR were afraid Eryn would kidnap the boy.
:glare:

I wish she had.

I do too!!!

[muska]

Its my opinion the Judge knows there is no way an 8 year old child can be found competent and is just passing the buck to the therapists and, in the meantime, still is able to claim he is falling the due process of the law. I think he is just waiting to make it official that the boy cannot stand trial. In the meantime, allowing for the police to have the time necessary to come up with some evidence or lack of evidence. I believe that by keeping him him at the Detention Center it prevents the boy's mother from taking the child over state lines to Mississippi where they would have a greater difficulty expediting the boy back to AZ. In one sense, I think for all concerned by having no more information to go on than the Judge had in the beginning considering all the lies that were going around by certain authorities, it was his only option to keep close tabs on the boy, perhaps being frightened for the child's safety, as well. However, I wish they would have chosen House Arrest (with an electronic ankle bracelet, worse case scenario) with some type of witness protection program protection. I can't stand to see how this child has been treated but I can appreciate the position of the Judge needing to get to the truth while keeping close tabs on the boy. I think there is enough evidence, now, to just dismiss this case and let the child go home with his mother and let them "get the heck out of Dodge", so to speak.

It might not have been so bad to keep the boy in detention if they had given him much more time with his mother and other interested relatives, and if they had provided counseling and age appropriate toys etc. The way this was done seemed very punitive. I think it was bad for the child to be away from those who loved him for so much time and in the end, if it's bad for the child, it's bad for everyone.

[muska]

Let's not forget that Tiffany is not on the Wilbur's security tape at 5PM. She only has a receipt which she could have gotten from anyone.

[Hawk]

Let's not forget that Tiffany is not on the Wilbur's security tape at 5PM. She only has a receipt which she could have gotten from anyone.

There's an angle someone should work on in earnest. Don't think there's much there, though.

[Justice_Dawg]

Let's not forget that Tiffany is not on the Wilbur's security tape at 5PM. She only has a receipt which she could have gotten from anyone.

I am with you.

[Justice_Dawg]

There's an angle someone should work on in earnest. Don't think there's much there, though.

What if you happened to find out she had a boyfriend, or wanted to be with someone else? Would that change your mind?

[Hawk]

What if you happened to find out she had a boyfriend, or wanted to be with someone else? Would that change your mind?

Well it sure would as far as motive. But why kill Mr. Romans?
What do you have?

[Justice_Dawg]

Well it sure would as far as motive. What about Mr. Romans?
What do you have?

She's a flake.

[Hawk]

She's a flake.

I don't know what a flake is.

[ChildsVOICE]

:scared: I'm skeeeeeeerrrrrrrreeeeedddddddd. :scared:

Hey JD...there you go again....transcribing to your own accent! LOL!:tonguewag:

[Hawk]

What's a flake?

[Justice_Dawg]

I don't know what a flake is.

LOL, Unstable.

She wanted VR to go to the Dr. with her. She got in a fight with HER HUSBAND'S boss. She has cancer and having trouble with it. (You must know what women who want children so badly are capable of.) She had the day off. Where was she all day??
VR didn't want anymore kids. (Transcripts)
Tim was a Ho. Slept with anything that walked.

Tiffany snapped.

LMHO:biggrin:

[muska]

Well it sure would as far as motive. But why kill Mr. Romans?
What do you have?

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans? If it was to kill a witness, Tiffany could have the same reason. Why do you suddenly feel so sure it was the boy? Just because of that remark that he shot TR, then VR? We've had that tape and all the boy's remarks for a long time. What makes any of the things he said any different now? Anyone could have been the shooter, just like before.

The "confession" was obtained in an underhanded way. If it's a false confession, it's too bad if it's still going to be used against him.

[Hawk]

LOL, Unstable.

She wanted VR to go to the Dr. with her. She got in a fight with HER HUSBAND'S boss. She has cancer and having trouble with it. (You must know what women who want children so badly are capable of.) She had the day off. Where was she all day??
VR didn't want anymore kids. (Transcripts)
Tim was a Ho. Slept with anything that walked.

Tiffany snapped.

LMHO:biggrin:

Don't know what women who want children are capable of but I know what women who have too many are like. (My family).

Good point. She snapped.

I've learned two new words from this board.
Flake and sidedish.

Thanks.

[Justice_Dawg]

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans? If it was to kill a witness, Tiffany could have the same reason. Why do you suddenly feel so sure it was the boy? Just because of that remark that he shot TR, then VR? We've had that tape and all the boy's remarks for a long time. What makes any of the things he said any different now? Anyone could have been the shooter, just like before.

The "confession" was obtained in an underhanded way. If it's a false confession, it's too bad if it's still going to be used against him.

The "confession" will be thrown out. They just had that other one thrown out for less after wrongfully imprisoning the kid.

imo

[Justice_Dawg]

Don't know what women who want children are capable of but I know what women who have too many are like. (My family).

Good point. She snapped.

I've learned two new words from this board.
Flake and sidedish.

Thanks.
KENNEWICK, Wash. — A woman accused of killing a pregnant woman and cutting the woman's baby out of the womb pleaded not guilty Thursday, as prosecutors consider whether to seek the death penalty.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380803,00.html

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - A Kansas woman was found guilty on Monday of killing a pregnant woman, cutting the baby from her womb and kidnapping the newborn in a gruesome ruse to pass the child off as her own.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2221812620071023?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

[muska]

The "confession" will be thrown out. They just had that other one thrown out for less after wrongfully imprisoning the kid.

imo

I mean that even if it's thrown out it's still being used against him if people are making up theories based on what the child said in an inadmissable confession. It's kind of like it can never really be thrown out now because people are going to use the parts that work for them no matter what. The kid can probably never get a fair trial.

[Justice_Dawg]

I mean that even if it's thrown out it's still being used against him if people are making up theories based on what the child said in an inadmissable confession. It's kind of like it can never really be thrown out now because people are going to use the parts that work for them no matter what. The kid can probably never get a fair trial.

I don't think he will ever get to a jury trial.

[Hawk]

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans? If it was to kill a witness, Tiffany could have the same reason. Why do you suddenly feel so sure it was the boy? Just because of that remark that he shot TR, then VR? We've had that tape and all the boy's remarks for a long time. What makes any of the things he said any different now? Anyone could have been the shooter, just like before.

The "confession" was obtained in an underhanded way. If it's a false confession, it's too bad if it's still going to be used against him.

The difference is the evidence that came out. I can't explain my thoughts very well. I wish I could post a diagram. It might make things a little clearer.

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans. That's a question I don't have an opinion on. Why did he shoot his dad? Sooner or later there will have to be motive brought out. Or maybe he'll be released before then. Or maybe we'll never know.

I'm not saying he did it 100 percent. It's just that his statements fit the scene so well. If he didn't do it he saw who did, and they used his rifle.

Maybe Tiffany did do the deed. But we need to figure out how she did it.

One thing is for sure. The boy knows what happened. And why.

What are your thoughts?

[muska]

The difference is the evidence that came out. I can't explain my thoughts very well. I wish I could post a diagram. It might make things a little clearer.

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans. That's a question I don't have an opinion on. Why did he shoot his dad? Sooner or later there will have to be motive brought out. Or maybe he'll be released before then. Or maybe we'll never know.

I'm not saying he did it 100 percent. It's just that his statements fit the scene so well. If he didn't do it he saw who did, and they used his rifle.

Maybe Tiffany did do the deed. But we need to figure out how she did it.


One thing is for sure. The boy knows what happened. And why.

What are your thoughts?

His statements fit the scene so well? What statements? His statements contradict each other. If you want to find him guilty or innocent, just choose the statements that work.

[ChanginWinds]

This is driving me car

[ChildsVOICE]

Did you take the key out of the ignition? My Chevy SUV only beeps when the driver door is open, when not running. When the key is removed from the ignition, it shoudn't beep. IMO


Good point.

Anybody remember any KEYS taken into evidence from the police reports I posted?

[Hawk]

I mean that even if it's thrown out it's still being used against him if people are making up theories based on what the child said in an inadmissable confession. It's kind of like it can never really be thrown out now because people are going to use the parts that work for them no matter what. The kid can probably never get a fair trial.

That's why it's so important that the truth comes out soon. Not here on the boards, of course, but in the courts. There will be a dark cloud over this youngster and an empty spot in his heart for the rest of his life no matter if his is guilty or not. Even when he moves away and changes his name he'll always know what really happened. And who did it. Oh, those memories.

I still think the boy will walk.

[Hawk]

Good point.

Anybody remember any KEYS taken into evidence from the police reports I posted?

They turned the truck over to Mrs. Romans didn't they?

[ChildsVOICE]

Well, it wasn't just her but someone else, maybe from the bar.

But where did Tim actually live when not at Romeros? His wife and daughters live in Phoenix. Tim is listed as living on the Apache reservation.

Also, the police reports state he would stay with "Candy" on some nights.

One more thing that bothered me. In one of the police reports, there is a statement that Tim would work Monday - Wednesday then go to San Carlos or Phoneix (can't remember which) on Wednesday nights? I found that odd seeing a work week would be M-F and he was a supervisor???

Then there is a post on this message board that Tim was telling his wife he had to work over the weekend. Could these just all be his cover stories to all his girlfriends & wife?

[muska]

That's why it's so important that the truth comes out soon. Not here on the boards, of course, but in the courts. There will be a dark cloud over this youngster and an empty spot in his heart for the rest of his life no matter if his is guilty or not. Even when he moves away and changes his name he'll always know what really happened. And who did it. Oh, those memories.

I still think the boy will walk.

I think this child needs heavy duty help whether he did this or not. I do not think he'll get the help he needs in a detention center. If he's locked up, it will be very bad for the boy and bad for whatever community to which he eventually moves. People are too short-sighted. If prosecution can "prove" he did this, I do not think he'll walk. I think the prosecution will lock him up because that's what prosecutors do. It won't matter what's right or makes sense. I REALLY hope I'm wrong.

[Hawk]

I've caused enough trouble for one night.
Besides, I gotta see my parole officer in the morning.

Good night.

[ChanginWinds]

The casings at the scene are driving me crazy. If anyone has already addressed this, I apologize for missing it. If so, please let me know where to find it so I can educate myself.

Has anyone noticed that the box of .17 HRM ammo collected in the search warrant and testified about by Sgt. Rodriguez in the in the initial detention hearing DOES NOT correspond to the .22 LR spent casings found at the scene?

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm the first to admit that I'm not a gun expert.

Per the crime scene photos, the box of ammo found at the scene contained .17 HMR Hornady cartridges.
http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/18019101/detail.htmlindex.html?currentSlide=13&taf=pho
The .17 HMR casings are "necked in" ("pinched in", or "a smaller diameter") at the top, as well as being significantly longer than the casings (which appear to be .22 LR) found at the scene. IMO, even a novice can see the difference. PLEASE tell me what I’m missing!!

I have photos to show the differnce if anyone is obsessed enough to want ot see them (like me, of course).

If I’m actually not crazy about this, my questions would be:
1) Where did the .22 LR ammo for the Chipmunk/Cricket rifle come from?
2) Why is the .17 HMR Hornady ammo box the only ammo listed in the supplementary search warrant that itemizes the evidence seized from the crime scene?
3) Was Sqt. Rodriguez (and the rest of SJ LE) fudging the evidence by implying that the .17 HMR was used in the crime?

[ChildsVOICE]

It might not have been so bad to keep the boy in detention if they had given him much more time with his mother and other interested relatives, and if they had provided counseling and age appropriate toys etc. The way this was done seemed very punitive. I think it was bad for the child to be away from those who loved him for so much time and in the end, if it's bad for the child, it's bad for everyone.

I AGREE! There is NO EXCUSE to have kept the boy in the Detention Center in the manner in which has been done. I am just sickened and furious. At the very worst he should have been on House Arrest with some witness protection.

Personally, I have sorted through all my own kids' books and sent two packages, already. Plus, I called my own kids' librarian and received a small donation of books, plus I called a lot of the Apache County Elementary Schools and asked for them to check w/ their librarians to get donations or to ask their individual teachers for donations of books to the Center. I've posted what the child needs on his myspace page under the blogs.

[ChildsVOICE]

Let's not forget that Tiffany is not on the Wilbur's security tape at 5PM. She only has a receipt which she could have gotten from anyone.

Was she at the store around 4:20-4:40? I thought there was a report of that. I know the boy had called her at 5:12 p.m. and 5:14 p.m. from the neighbor's cell phone.

[ChildsVOICE]

I don't think he will ever get to a jury trial.

A jury trial was denied by the Judge, early on. I think its one of the very first two motions the Defense made. One for a Jury Trial. One for a Court Reporter. Both DENIED!

And, GOD, I hope this poor kid doesn't get drug threw a bunch of APPEALS! I'm sickened the Prosecutor has already started that mess!

Dear Prosecutors, Just let the kid go home, already! You and the local police have already made yourselves look like absolute and completely heartless idiots on a major power trip!

Check Apache County Superior Court High Profile Case site then check very first two motions.

[ChildsVOICE]

The difference is the evidence that came out. I can't explain my thoughts very well. I wish I could post a diagram. It might make things a little clearer.

Why would the boy kill Mr. Romans. That's a question I don't have an opinion on. Why did he shoot his dad? Sooner or later there will have to be motive brought out. Or maybe he'll be released before then. Or maybe we'll never know.

I'm not saying he did it 100 percent. It's just that his statements fit the scene so well. If he didn't do it he saw who did, and they used his rifle.

Maybe Tiffany did do the deed. But we need to figure out how she did it.

One thing is for sure. The boy knows what happened. And why.

What are your thoughts?

This still goes back to the police officers LEADING his "confession". They told him what he was explaining was not fitting the "evidence" and kept leading him in what to say including moving from saying he shot each victim one time to multiple times and going back and forth between victims. The whole "confession" was an orchestration from beginning to end. If the Commander would have had more info at that time she would have fed him more and he would have changed his story even more to fit what she kept suggesting. Thank God the boy started refusing to keep up with her.

He showed signs of someone who's been forced to say things they don't believe is true. If you notice at the end of the interrogation video he refuses to state he shot them any more than two times even though she keeps pressing him to do so. AND then he starts clamming up all together. After he realizes what they just made him do (say he did something he doesn't think/feel/believe/know he did) he doesn't respond to even the littlest questions like to "Can I have a hug?" and I don't even think he responded to "Do you want any water?" I recognized this protective tactic because I used to do that with my own abusive mother. I would answer as much as possible until I couldn't take it any more then I realized I had power in NOT answering at all. My mom would try to get me to talk but that is where I found my power. Not to say a single word. I see this in this child. He just realized it too late.