Saturday, Dec 20th EVENING, Part 3 [Archive] - Page 2

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:07 AM

I won't argue with you there. But it still doesnt equate to intentional murder.

But it defies common sense. If you kill your little daughter by accident you may panic and hide the body (I can get that far) but to have no change in behavior, to go out and party like nothing happend. To get a tatoo that says Beautiful Life and all the other things we know about says to me that she was more than indifferent to what occured. It tells me she was dancing on Caylee's grave. Glad to be rid of her. In fact that is what Dr. Marshall says on NG. It is not uncommon for the murderer to dance on the person's grave and then go on a crime spree as when Casey then took Amy's money and went shopping.

Maybe she accidentally killed Caylee and was glad of it. But how is that an accident if you are glad the person died from what you did?

Cove

12-21-2008, 01:08 AM

Well.. Cindy Sommers behavior was considered vile too, and her jury convicted her because of it. I suppose thats why she is enjoying her freedom today. I just hope that Casey is convicted for the crimes she committed, based upon the evidence alone.

Yes, agreed.

CNTM

12-21-2008, 01:08 AM

It was child abuse! That is a felony. If the child dies during a felony it is Murder.

I actually do not believe it happened that way.

Casey hated her mother and her mother and her got physical, mom choking her and saying she was going to file for custody of Caylee.
Casey wanted to hurt her mother by killing Caylee because no way was she going to take Caylee.
She hated the attention Caylee got that she used to get.
Casey herself said she was a *spiteful bit*h

IMO

I wonder if we have the "truth" about the confrontation between Casey and Cindy? Possibly Cindy made it clear that she was going the next day to start custody proceedings?

martha

12-21-2008, 01:08 AM

Good night all you nice posters. I guess we want know much more until trial time. I think there is a black truck parked in the a;s drive way. I don;t know who that is but it looks quite at the house. jmho

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 01:09 AM

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:09 AM

Yes I did watch it. I don't know when it was made but the dog jumped out of the car where Caylee was found but they forced the dog back in the car and did not search there. In listening to the tape they seem to be adding logic in a "Physic reading" I do not discount the power of the dead and physics..not sure this women is a physic. Too much info about case with her.

Well, the one woman and a dog were left at the scene where Caylee was found, while the rest drove off to the school. Did you note that whats her name and the kid in the back felt sick, while the dogs went nutty at the site? Wonder if they were second guessing. Not that I am believing their physic abilities....just gave me the shivers.

n/t

12-21-2008, 01:09 AM

Did you watch Gale's video clip I posted???

I downloaded it and I will give it a good look tomorrow if I have time. Something seems off, like there seems to be something extra that doesn't belong there, tell me what you think.

Like what? I can't get the video to work for some reason. Also, when was the video taken? TIA

stef

12-21-2008, 01:09 AM

Wonder how long the fence has been there? There didn't seem to be a fence in the area LE/FBI were working at. Looked like you could walk right in off the street.

There is no fence in the brush areas.

tybek

12-21-2008, 01:09 AM

I think so too. They need some privacy and healing time.

I saw Mark Lunsford saying the same thing on Greta the other nite, how there would be a time to address who did this and the facts would come out and the guilty would pay, but that now it is time for the Anthony family to be allowed to grieve. He was very elequant and touching, IMO

Jumbo1

12-21-2008, 01:11 AM

She ruled the cause of death as unknown. Unknown can mean accident just as much as it can mean homicide. If the bag or tape had anything to do with her death, it wouldn't be unknown.

A "homicide" by unknown means. Not an accident.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:11 AM

Throw your child's dead body in a field to rot. Naughty naughty girl. You go to time out! Go to bed without your supper. Three lashes with a wet noodle.

I think it's depraved indifference.

That 'depraved indifference' has been in my mind about this from day one. Even before Caylee was found I saw this 'totmom' as having depraved indifference to her baby.
I would like to give her a bit more than what you said tho. Quite a bit more!
:flamemad:

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:11 AM

You are more familiar with the area than me, but it seems to me they stopped SHORT. Mark the time from turning onto the street to when they stop and the woman got out with the dog and ran into the knee deep water. The rest did do-loops all over the street and came back to the dog/woman. I think the dog/woman were about 75 yards short of the site where the baby was found. IMO. :shrug:

Again not good with distances have no clue on that, however I was just at the site today(again do not know where exactly Caylee was it was a large opening in the woods when I was there. In my opinion they were really close to the opening. They continued down the road turned left into the school went through the parking lot and came back out of the school the open gate was to the left at that point. Caylee was to the right.

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:12 AM

Like what? I can't get the video to work for some reason. Also, when was the video taken? TIA

I think Geraldo said 8/11.

Mamie

12-21-2008, 01:12 AM

At some ungodly hour of the day, perhaps? *shrug*

And if it happened to be a full moon night.........

barskin&co.

12-21-2008, 01:12 AM

Danielle Van Dam was created. Was she skeletal? Hate to type that.

Yes, little Danielle's skeletal remains were found on February 27, 2002. She went missing on February 1. That's how little time it takes for a very young body to decompose (and Danielle was 4 years older than Caylee).

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 01:12 AM

Doctors have been known to kill patients accidently. My thought was that Casey was drugging the child with the intention of putting her out for a while. Now I know that is murder when you do a dangerous thing and someone dies. Legally it is murder, I still think the mother could have killed her by accident. Still murder, still punishable, still all kinds of wrong.

Intentionally exposing a child to a potentially toxic substance for any reason isn't accidental. It's horrific, reprehensible behavior on the part of a parent to do that. Consider the child instead of excusing her mother. It meets the definition of aggravated child abuse.

CNTM

12-21-2008, 01:13 AM

I saw Mark Lunsford saying the same thing on Greta the other nite, how there would be a time to address who did this and the facts would come out and the guilty would pay, but that now it is time for the Anthony family to be allowed to grieve. He was very elequant and touching, IMO

I don't like some things they have done, but I do know they are hurting deeply and do need to be left alone by the public. Mark Lunsford is a great guy in my opinion!

coffee1950j

12-21-2008, 01:13 AM

I know what you mean.. Its difficult for me to think of anyone, even Casey, intentionally hurting that precious little girl. It just seems like people should be better than that. Perhaps my faith in humanity is outdated.

I think my faith became outdated with the Entwistle case. This whole case just reinforced that feeling.

:crying:

stef

12-21-2008, 01:14 AM

Danielle Van Dam was created. Was she skeletal? Hate to type that.

Ouch, I remember that, and I don't have the stomach to repeat it, all I see is her little necklace.

Caylee was so small, I am shocked they have recovered any of her remains.

Haggabag

12-21-2008, 01:14 AM

They may decide to cremate her and bring her ashes home... all in private.

I think this would be the most honourable thing they could do for little Caylee. (Plus it would keep all the crazies from turning this into an even larger sideshow.)

llylabrat

12-21-2008, 01:14 AM

It was child abuse! That is a felony. If the child dies during a felony it is Murder.

I actually do not believe it happened that way.

Casey hated her mother and her mother and her got physical, mom choking her and saying she was going to file for custody of Caylee.
Casey wanted to hurt her mother by killing Caylee because no way was she going to take Caylee.
She hated the attention Caylee got that she used to get.
Casey herself said she was a *spiteful bit*h

IMO

I agree its abuse & murder!

I didn't know Cindy threatened to take custody of Caylee. Is Cindy the one who told of the choking?

CNTM

12-21-2008, 01:15 AM

Can it be proved who researched it and if it was ever created?

Cindy stated that Casey had her own log on id for the 'puter. If the searches are in her history then it's a done deal. If not, I believe Cindy and George shared the other log on id.

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

Can it be proved who researched it and if it was ever created?

I researched it tonight. Still have not the first clue as to how to make it, why to make it, or how to use it. This case is so out there.

Absolutely disturbing.

:rose:

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

How is it not true? She went in, made a statement as to what she wanted and why. The man repeated it to LE. No one knew Caylee was missing for 31 days. Casey did lots of things in 31 days.

So true CNTM. I saw him on Dr. Phil this past Thurs. He said the same thing. He added that he asked about Caylee and Casey said she was fine. She made it sound as if it was for her daughter, not in 'memory' of her daughter.
So that tat was for Caylee. Little did he know, or anyone else that it may have been in 'memory' of Caylee.

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

I just searched how to make it too.....I haven't created any.

Just like if I search to make a cheesecake....doesn't mean I made one.....I might obtain one by buying it from the store (or in Casey's case, she might obtain it from a drug dealer)

I'm not saying she didn't do it......and she may well have done it with Chloroform...

but saying there is proof she made it....nope don't believe that is a fact yet.....of course the police might find something in the house that proves she did make it.

I have no reason not to believe the Body Farm's analysis that chloroform was found in the car trunk. I also don't believe a jury will have a problem believing Casey is the one who researched it and caused it to be in her car.

Shotzie

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

Well I guess the new memorial that people are putting up by the crime scene..Anthony's are having them taken down tomorrow..which I can't figure out since this is not their property and they have signs "No Trespassing"..:cursing::angry:
They may not be talking but they are still doing stupid things..:angry:
IMO

CNTM

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

I agree its abuse & murder!

I didn't know Cindy threatened to take custody of Caylee. Is Cindy the one who told of the choking?

I believe Lee told about the choking in one of his LE interviews.

playnice

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

Intentionally exposing a child to a potentially toxic substance for any reason isn't accidental. It's horrific, reprehensible behavior on the part of a parent to do that. Consider the child instead of excusing her mother. It meets the definition of aggravated child abuse.

Since chloroform is illegal and Caylee may have overdosed on it what would be the difference of having a meth lab in your home and it blew up killing your child?

RiverWalk

12-21-2008, 01:16 AM

How could you forget the part about hiding the car?

Oh my, I totally did. My bad. Hi friend.:seeya:

MoonFlwr

12-21-2008, 01:18 AM

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:18 AM

So you believe that the tatoo guy was told that Caylee was dead, and to make a tatoo in her memory?

No Adverse, the tat guy was told it was for her daughter. Not that she was dead....see my post above...not in her memory. Just that it was for her daughter.

I'mRight

12-21-2008, 01:19 AM

Wonder what LE went back to get from the house today. Seems like they keep connecting more and more dots.

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:19 AM

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 01:20 AM

Yes, little Danielle's skeletal remains were found on February 27, 2002. She went missing on February 1. That's how little time it takes for a very young body to decompose (and Danielle was 4 years older than Caylee).

TY. I could not remember. I just remember seeing the little urn in their house when Brenda did an interview once. Caylee being in the bag might have preserved her a little bit.

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 01:21 AM

Since chloroform is illegal and Caylee may have overdosed on it what would be the difference of having a meth lab in your home and it blew up killing your child?

I doubt there is a difference in terms of charges and punishment sought.

stef

12-21-2008, 01:21 AM

Like what? I can't get the video to work for some reason. Also, when was the video taken? TIA

Ok, call me crazy, but I think there is something added in there, that isn't part of the original tape. Maybe they combined 2 clips, i just don't know, I will have to get it into my player and have a look to be sure.

I think they were down there in August, they were there when TES searched the first time. moo

RiverWalk

12-21-2008, 01:22 AM

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:23 AM

I agree with all you say, but it could also have been an accident, and I believe there may be some kind of evidence that shows a possible drowning. I don't know. I just don't have a problem waiting for trial and seeing the evidence. There has been so much info put out that its difficult, if not impossible to separate the rumors from the facts. Its hard not to let emotions guide our opinions, which a jury will be instructed they cannot allow. I have no doubt that if the evidence shows that Casey is guilty of murder then she will pay the price for it.

You seem to be confusing manner of death and cause of death.

It was ruled a homicide - this is the manner of death. What caused this - the method is undetermined. There is not enough (and I'm sorry to offend anyone) of the remains to determine cause. I have little faith in the toxicology report since the remains were out there so long. I'm just speculating that that also will come back inconclusive.

The only one that can state what happened is CASEY. Do you think she'll tell the truth or a version should she confess to it being an accident that she hid.

There is no way manner of death will ever be changed on word of the suspect.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:23 AM

:thumbsup: Okay what about this. Somebody really did kidnap Caylee and kill her. They put her dead body in the back yard for a while. Then they took her out and put her in Casey's car trunk. Then they took her out and threw her in a field. While all this was going on Casey was unconcerned. She lived it up and had a high old time. And when the jig was up she blamed it on a kidnapper but not THE kidnapper. Somehow she blamed it on a person with the same name as a woman who had looked at an apartment.....well you know the drill.

I just cannot come up with one scenario that gets Casey off the hook . Who else can give it a try?

I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole MrsH.
I am praying the jury won't either.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:23 AM

Yes my opinion, which is based on relevant law.

It would not be the first time the jury ignored a law that makes no sense. :blink:

Haggabag

12-21-2008, 01:23 AM

I know that.. but there was some discussion among Cindy and George about unusual things pertaining to the pool. We don't know what clothes have been found. It could be a bathing suit. I keep thinking about "the flurry of calls" made from Casey's phone to her parents. I am not saying thats the way it happened, I'm saying that other scenarios are plausible, based on what we know at this point.

My theory (at the moment) is that Casey and CA had a fight, Casey smothered Caylee with chloroform and stuffed her into the trunk. Later on when GA wanted to look in the trunk, Casey drove Caylee's body over to the crime scene where they discovered her and she dumped her off. I think this is what I believe... but then I remember that flurry of phone calls to her parents which leads me to think there could have been an accident etc., and I start all over again at Square One. I just dunno.

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 01:24 AM

You're right. Searching it on the computer doesn't prove she used it. The problem for the defense is her consistent lies, a dead child, the dead child's decomp DNA in the trunk of the car she drove, evidence now the news says is linked back to the house where she and the child resided. Not to mention fact that she invited her friends to come live at the house she was set to be given sole custody of since her parents were relocating to another state soon. Plus she told friends it was a drag to be saddled with a young child. Plus the fact she was out clubbing and grinning gleefully soon as the child went missing. Plus her juvenile criminal history (sealed as juvie records are). But it's on her jailhouse criminal history that she was incarcerated while underage.

So they have their hurdles.

Just her searching out the choloroform on the computer in and of itself might not be such a big deal. But when the prosecution puts all the evidence on the table and the jury views it in it's entirety during their deliberations I'm positive they'll have a lot more strikes against her than just that one item. Even with that taken out of the equasion she could still be convicted of murder #1 that she's charged with.

There is more than just searching cholorform on the 'net. Evidence of cholorform was obtained from the car itself.

zap3

12-21-2008, 01:24 AM

IMO, I am waiting for the parents, brother, and Casey to all start pointing fingers at each other. Especially since they all have different attorneys don't they?

Also, no one really knows, other than LE, what was found with Caylee's remains.

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:24 AM

Ok, call me crazy, but I think there is something added in there, that isn't part of the original tape. Maybe they combined 2 clips, i just don't know, I will have to get it into my player and have a look to be sure.

I think they were down there in August, they were there when TES searched the first time. moo

I will check it again tomorrow to be double triple sure but are you in orlando..the school that they pulled into has a drop off loop and a bus loop but I will check again when I can turn up the volume.

playnice

12-21-2008, 01:25 AM

since Casey blamed Zanny can they even change their story now?

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 01:25 AM

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:25 AM

Have Caylee's remains even been released from the coroner's office?

Dr. G said she would be filing the death cert and releasing the remains at the pc on Thurs.

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:27 AM

I would like to see them try to take it down. It has become an attraction and I think desecrating a memorial would not be taken kindy to all that are visiting.

I think the Anthonys have been taking classes on "How to be hated in one easy lesson"

It's so pathetic because they COULD have had the world on their side!

This again IMO goes to there sense of entitlement. I find it funny they can pick and choose the times they demand privacy

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:28 AM

You seem to be confusing manner of death and cause of death.

It was ruled a homicide - this is the manner of death. What caused this - the method is undetermined. There is not enough (and I'm sorry to offend anyone) of the remains to determine cause. I have little faith in the toxicology report since the remains were out there so long. I'm just speculating that that also will come back inconclusive.

The only one that can state what happened is CASEY. Do you think she'll tell the truth or a version should she confess to it being an accident that she hid.

There is no way manner of death will ever be changed on word of the suspect.

Sorry to repeat myself, but Scott Peterson is on death row in California. No cause of death. And that was California.

Her goose is cooked.

IMO

stef

12-21-2008, 01:28 AM

Gale said tonight on Geraldo it was Aug. 11th.

I swear she was there when TES was there, because she had a few animal bone finds, people kept saying it was her team not TES. There are more stories about the team, and this case that can be found out on the internets.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:28 AM

What's a 'standard SAG rate' if you don't mind my asking? I think the only thing he's doing now is confirming what people already knew about him when he created such a fiasco at Blanchard Park. Makes me want to google "neck-breaking"...

Last I heard the SAG rate was $375.
I'm trying to catch up as fast as I can, prolly someone has already answered.
:mellow:

Haggabag

12-21-2008, 01:28 AM

Your talking about someone who also talked their way into Universal Studios bringing in LE with her who didn't back down that she did not work there until they hit the wall at the end of the hallway. How's that for brazen.

Brazen is one way of putting it. Casey doesn't think more than 30 seconds ahead of time about the consequences of her actions. Therefore dumping the little body close to home is very characteristic of something she would do. IMO she's very devious and very evil... but not all that bright.

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:30 AM

Shotzie I'm sorry but that doesn't even make sense. There have always been No Trespassing signs on that property, and to say the Anthony's are having the crime scene memorials taken down sounds like a ridiculous rumor.

nope I heard something about it also I believe channel 9. But I was trying to listed the video and my husband snoring at the same time so I can't be sure

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:31 AM

http://s377.photobucket.com/albums/oo218/really3997/

I posted some more...how would you like to live here.

Thanks for this really.
I will keep reading and trying to catch up to see the others you posted. No, I would not like to live there.
:sad:

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:31 AM

I think Nancy does. Are you kidding? Have you seen the way she treats her guests? You think they take that abuse for free?

Good point! They earn their pay on that show. :laugh:

Cury-us Coyote

12-21-2008, 01:31 AM

Again not good with distances have no clue on that, however I was just at the site today(again do not know where exactly Caylee was it was a large opening in the woods when I was there. In my opinion they were really close to the opening. They continued down the road turned left into the school went through the parking lot and came back out of the school the open gate was to the left at that point. Caylee was to the right.

Would it help to count light poles? TIA

stef

12-21-2008, 01:31 AM

I will check it again tomorrow to be double triple sure but are you in orlando..the school that they pulled into has a drop off loop and a bus loop but I will check again when I can turn up the volume.

Don't worry about it, you have done enough.
Well, if you have 2 large dogs, a couple friends, video camera, and some soda pop, we could recreate the scene, lol.

need2no

12-21-2008, 01:32 AM

Dr. G said she would be filing the death cert and releasing the remains at the pc on Thurs.

Hey OG!

Yes, and it will be interesting to find out if casey is willing to turn the remains over to C & G.

Motomom

12-21-2008, 01:32 AM

Shotzie I'm sorry but that doesn't even make sense. There have always been No Trespassing signs on that property, and to say the Anthony's are having the crime scene memorials taken down sounds like a ridiculous rumor.

Someone posted earlier about it claiming that someone close to the family would be taking the toys and donating them. Another poster had said that people were leaving brand new toys and stuffed animals, and toys for tots wasn't doing so well. Just what was posted here earlier. It is a waste for toys to be left there when there are too many children who have nothing or next to nothing. Caylee can't use them toys now, she has more than she'll ever need where she's at. people should leave flowers, not toys, but JMO

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:33 AM

since Casey blamed Zanny can they even change their story now?

I just read someones post about the Anthony's claim to changes in the pool and possible that Caylee drowned scenerio.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe either Casey or the Anthony's at this point.

I believe they will do everything in their power that this will become the most innocent of accidents that Casey panic'd and hid.

Casey has proved to be cold blooded, callous and a compulsive liar.

The Anthony's have proved to hide evidence and hamper the investigation.

I don't believe the cover up mode will ever cease with this family to ever find out the truth.

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:33 AM

My theory (at the moment) is that Casey and CA had a fight, Casey smothered Caylee with chloroform and stuffed her into the trunk. Later on when GA wanted to look in the trunk, Casey drove Caylee's body over to the crime scene where they discovered her and she dumped her off. I think this is what I believe... but then I remember that flurry of phone calls to her parents which leads me to think there could have been an accident etc., and I start all over again at Square One. I just dunno.

I want to say maybe a bit more than a week ago, when I was still lurking, someone formed a great theory. Dang. Can't remember who it was. Said that Casey backed into the garage, not knowing GA was home. He wanted to get into the trunk for something. Casey started a huge fight with him. Drove off and dumped Caylee close to home. Anyone else remember this theory.

Haggabag

12-21-2008, 01:33 AM

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:34 AM

Don't worry about it, you have done enough.
Well, if you have 2 large dogs, a couple friends, video camera, and some soda pop, we could recreate the scene, lol.

as long as I can have the air conditioning on high I will be there.....Don't tempt me my husband is already going to smack me if I keep going back.

RiverWalk

12-21-2008, 01:35 AM

I swear she was there when TES was there, because she had a few animal bone finds, people kept saying it was her team not TES. There are more stories about the team, and this case that can be found out on the internets.

TES was there the END of August.

"Aug. 30: Texas EquuSearch, a mounted search and recovery group, arrive in Central Florida to help search for Caylee."

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/7/17/caylee_marie_anthony_disappearance_timeline.html

We'll keep searching. K.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:35 AM

You know.. I don't really know. I used to know what it was.. and my guess would be 1500-2000 each appearance. My grandma used to be the vice pres. of one of the regional SAG divisions, and she got my son print ad work when he was a baby, and at that time, for a baby the rate was $600 an hour. It was more for adults, and that was 25 years ago.

Wow, I'm way off!!!
:blush:

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:39 AM

The only thing I can see is if the Anthony's have asked to have all that stuff (stuffed animals and such) given to other little children who can use it before it gets destroyed by the elements. A lot of us posters were talking about that very idea earlier tonight on another thread.

like I said my husband is snoring so you could be right...(it's loud)

I'mRight

12-21-2008, 01:39 AM

Sorry to repeat myself, but Scott Peterson is on death row in California. No cause of death. And that was California.

Her goose is cooked.

IMO

Yep...and there's a lot more evidence in this case than in the Scott Peterson case.

I remembered another one of Casey's dumb lies today: Her saying that she talked to Caylee on the phone, but there is no evidence of such a call on her cell phone!

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 01:41 AM

I just read someones post about the Anthony's claim to changes in the pool and possible that Caylee drowned scenerio.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't believe either Casey or the Anthony's at this point.

I believe they will do everything in their power that this will become the most innocent of accidents that Casey panic'd and hid.

Casey has proved to be cold blooded, callous and a compulsive liar.

The Anthony's have proved to hide evidence and hamper the investigation.

I don't believe the cover up mode will ever cease with this family to ever find out the truth.

Oh but don't forget it is on tape Cindy saying if there had been an accident Casey would have been screaming bloody murder. I think they may regret some of the interviews they have gave.

jammies

12-21-2008, 01:41 AM

Too Late!!! Totally emotionally invested :ohmy:

As none of us are on the jury and have no affect on this case, we can be as EMOTIONAL as we want.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 01:41 AM

At some ungodly hour of the day, perhaps? *shrug*

Most likely. She seems to have been up at all hours of the night.
I don't see any question as to when she could have dumped Caylee.
This was a known area to her. She knew the schedules and time flow of all the neighbors.
I know my neighborhood and area surrounding when would be the best time to do something criminal when no one would notice or see.

zap3

12-21-2008, 01:41 AM

I'm a dummy, and I guess I should Google, but is Chloroform related to Chlorine (like you would use in a pool)?

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:42 AM

About the toys.. I thought about the stuffed animals out there, and it seems possible that some of those might be donated by kids who want to share a one of there animals with Caylee. I think all the new toys should be given to the toys for tots, but the ones that were given out of the goodness of young hearts.. I'm not sure.

Well I am confused I just looked at the memorial that I just took around 5:00 all I see are stuffed animals:confused:

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:42 AM

I agree with all you say, but it could also have been an accident, and I believe there may be some kind of evidence that shows a possible drowning. I don't know. I just don't have a problem waiting for trial and seeing the evidence. There has been so much info put out that its difficult, if not impossible to separate the rumors from the facts. Its hard not to let emotions guide our opinions, which a jury will be instructed they cannot allow. I have no doubt that if the evidence shows that Casey is guilty of murder then she will pay the price for it.

Well sure. We all speculating on what we know so far. I guess I am just saying that if it was an accident she would have reacted differently and she would have admitted it by now to avoid LWP. So when someone comes along saying it could have been an accident I just can't see it.

Oh well cussing and discussing the case is why we are here. It's a very interesting and informative pass time. I like speculating about it but I think we all know that we won't know all the facts until the trial.

barskin&co.

12-21-2008, 01:44 AM

Danielle was found in 21 days, I don't recall the condition..

I posted this a little earlier. She went missing on February 1, 2002. Her skeletal remains were found on February 27. It takes that little time for a young body to decompose. :rose:

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:45 AM

Oh but don't forget it is on tape Cindy saying if there had been an accident Casey would have been screaming bloody murder. I think they may regret some of the interviews they have gave.

ITA! By Casey's hand something happened.

bchand

12-21-2008, 01:45 AM

Someone posted earlier about it claiming that someone close to the family would be taking the toys and donating them. Another poster had said that people were leaving brand new toys and stuffed animals, and toys for tots wasn't doing so well. Just what was posted here earlier. It is a waste for toys to be left there when there are too many children who have nothing or next to nothing. Caylee can't use them toys now, she has more than she'll ever need where she's at. people should leave flowers, not toys, but JMO

5:00 p.m.

News 13 has learned George and Cindy Anthony have decided to take all the toys left in memory of Caylee Anthony and donate them to underprivileged children for the holidays.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/12/12/minutetominute_update_in_remains_discovery_12_11.h tml

RiverWalk

12-21-2008, 01:46 AM

It's hard to figure out where Caylee was found, it looks like it was right by the end of the wooden fence, reports say she was anywhere from 15 to 60 foot off the road.

It is hard looking on my computer. I had the arial views, but can't find them now. UGH. I was talking about from when a car turns onto Suburban to the SITE. Off the road is about 20'-30' from those same pics I had. I think I need sleep and more food?

barskin&co.

12-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Yep...and there's a lot more evidence in this case than in the Scott Peterson case.

I remembered another one of Casey's dumb lies today: Her saying that she talked to Caylee on the phone, but there is no evidence of such a call on her cell phone!

That call supposedly came after the car was impounded with the horrendous smell of decomp in it.

Anyone can pretty much deduce by both of these things the call never happened.

need2no

12-21-2008, 01:47 AM

Well sure. We all speculating on what we know so far. I guess I am just saying that if it was an accident she would have reacted differently and she would have admitted it by now to avoid LWP. So when someone comes along saying it could have been an accident I just can't see it.

Oh well cussing and discussing the case is why we are here. It's a very interesting and informative pass time. I like speculating about it but I think we all know that we won't know all the facts until the trial.

I'm still curious about the 1200 pics the FBI mentioned to George. I'm sure those may hold some clues as to what was going on with casey, and a few other things...but hopefully they didn't include Caylee in any way.

Motomom

12-21-2008, 01:48 AM

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:48 AM

Your'e welcome. While I *think* Casey is guilty, I understand that it is merely my *opinion* based on leaks and media reports and what I PRESUME the evidence will be. Nothing is for sure until the evidence is presented in a court of law. I can think of other cases where forming an opinion based on media, leaks, and presumption of what the evidence would be led me down the wrong road. IMO snipped for brevity.

Me too. I followed the Michael Jackson case and boy was I ever wrong about that. I really messed up by having faith in those seasoned prosecutors. I was just flat out wrong. Maybe I'm wrong this time too. If I am well that's okay. It won't be the first time I've been wrong about something. :blush:

jammies

12-21-2008, 01:49 AM

If you read the quote I was answering it was totally appropriate.
Maybe posts like yours continue bringing it to the forefront are the cause of problems.
I was not here when it was ever discussed and you seem to be especially sensitive to the subject!

Again ....goodnite all!

night, charm!

I'mRight

12-21-2008, 01:49 AM

I don't think this was an accident AT ALL. Any chance of that goes out the window with the computer searches. The way she carried on after Caylee was dead is just crazy. If I accidentally harmed a child of mine I would be at home and sick for months. Definetely would not be out getting a tattoo and going to parties. She planned it.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:50 AM

really3997

12-21-2008, 01:52 AM

Maybe the owner of the property gave them authorization? Don't know, just saying.

The actual memorial is on the sidewalk not in the "scene". I hope this is as innocent as it sounds and I hope this doesn't turn into another dramatic scene. Good nite all putting my earplugs in and calling it quits

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 01:55 AM

May I suggest a quick rub to the temples for relief to the affected area. I hope you feel better soon.

I did see the memorial tonight, and it was beautiful and very touching. I'm sure it will be dealt with with dignity and honor.

Sorry. He always makes me cranky. It's been years now.

The memorial is beautiful. God bless Caylee.:rose:

Neffy

12-21-2008, 01:55 AM

Thank you BChand.. I'm glad they are doing this.

That is a good thing to do. IMO it doesn't take away the sentiment in which or why they were given. It adds to it.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 01:56 AM

No, but thank you anyway. I already stated I don't consider Leonard Padillo credible.

That's fine. I don't either really. I just recall this was the ONE time he was credible. :smile::smile:

I think it was Lee who told LE but if I stop to look it up I'll get behind on the thread. Those documents are a mess to go through because the find on page function does not work for me.

Cury-us Coyote

12-21-2008, 01:58 AM

Mayasmimi

12-21-2008, 02:00 AM

I have a sense that as we start to see the people George and Cindy really are, they will emerge as good people who temporarily lost their way as a reaction to extremely difficult events. I think they are probably more like us than many of us think.
imo

I think so as well. Maybe because I've just jumped back in here after a very long vaca. My own daughter had a baby at the same age. I don't know how I'd react. I would hope that the baby would be my focus. Actually, I think the baby would be my focus. There, but for the grace of God, go I.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:01 AM

Up-To-The-Minute Update
Saturday, Dec. 20
5:00 p.m.
News 13 has learned George and Cindy Anthony have decided to take all the toys left in memory of Caylee Anthony and donate them to underprivileged children for the holidays.
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/12/12/minutetominute_update_in_remains_discovery_12_11.h tml

Thanks cury
Far cry from the bags of other stuffed animals that were tossed in the trash because "they smelled like smoke".
This image rebuilding is interesting to watch.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:02 AM

Hey OG!

Yes, and it will be interesting to find out if casey is willing to turn the remains over to C & G.

Hey darlin!
I've been wondering that too. Since I've been reading that the remains haven't been released yet, it makes me wonder if Casey is holding back on that.
From what I understand, she as the next of kin needs to release Caylee to her parents in order for them to make arrangements.
I'm wondering 2 things, is she holding back on the advice of Baez so a second autopsy can be done according to HIS wishes and rules?
Or is she holding back because this would be yet another stab to Cindy and George's heart?
I somehow can see her doing this to spite them, being the spiteful b**ch she is.
I can also see Bozo advising her to hold back for his own selfish reasons.
:shrug:

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:02 AM

Adalena935,

I agree with you and some people they feel they have to do something. There are worse things out there such is what's behind the memorial and horrendeous crimes.

It seems to be going to a good cause (to other children) regarding this case so I'm not letting it get to me.

A little girl was killed by a car while on her bike a couple blocks from me. Someone chained a white schwinn bike adorned with flowers to the stop sign. I was pretty horrified to see what I interpreted as like a "childless ghost bike". But it made me think. In other words there was bad and good in it.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:04 AM

I still like my idea (especially after some many people talked about seeing the book in the picture, and since there is video of Caylee reading the book)....

it's out of print, but if the publisher is still in business to have them do a reprint of the book in memory of Caylee. People could donate or buy them for their grandchildren.....

And maybe someone could talk the publishing company into donating to a fund set up in Caylee's name.

I would buy one for my grandsons. First time I have typed grandsons.:thumbsup: A fund in Caylee's name would be a wonderful idea.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:06 AM

Hey OG!
*snipped*
.

PS n2n, have you checked your pm's lately?

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:08 AM

It's in a video clip linked up thread. Per Brad Conway, he will arrange to have all the toys and other things at the crime scene memorial site removed tomorrow and taken to needy children, because the A's don't want it all ruined by the elements. Or something.

I'm confused as to why Brad Conway and the A's think it's up to them to touch the memorial at all? :confused:

Well, I am sure a lot of little kids will enjoy them. I am curious about who has the actual right to do it.

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 02:10 AM

The grandparents have admitted to lying which they call inconsistincies and asked for immunity from prosecution. They're recorded making inconsistincies (conflicting statements) and it was their free choice to do so.

As for the makeshift memorials. No matter how well-intentioned they may be I personally find them offensive. To me they're like fake fingernails; cheap. I don't like them. If my child were to be killed by any means, auto accident or whatever I would be inclined to remove them. We have cemeteries for that sort of thing. I for one would not be pleased for the spot my child (or grandchild) was murdered to be memorialized. A human being is more than the circumstances or the place in which they died. Why remind the family? Adds insult to injury. But that's just my feelings about it. Besides, where they found her body is private property belonging to an individual who lives out of state. So, maybe it hurts the family members. It would hurt me very much. It's undignified in my opinion.

I see the family removing it nothing more than that. Their opinion. People are so adamant to talk about offensive these days. But somehow they give themselves permission to offend others to the point of even their murdered children. Enough already I say. There's plenty more to be displeased with this family about besides something so petty and controversial than them not appreciating makeshift memorials everywhere strangers decide it should be.

Our nation's hospitals wouldn't have room for live patients if everyone did that in every room a person died. Our roadways wouldn't have space for people to drive on if everyone did this every place someone died. No home would be able to be sold or viewed by prospective buyers if everyone did that everywhere someone died. Same goes for automobiles.

My friend's son died in an auto accident. Perfect strangers put makeshift memorials at his place of business & on the hwy where he died. My friend took them down crying it hurt her so bad. Please people everything that pleases you may well offend the victim's family. Enough already. Have some respect.

Why would spiritual acts of compassion and kindness cause hurt? I don't get that at all. I don't believe Caylee tossed in the weeds in a trash bag is very respectful nor do I believe she died there. She was dumped there and that fact is what causes the real hurt, not the stuffed animals and candles.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 02:10 AM

I know that.. but there was some discussion among Cindy and George about unusual things pertaining to the pool. We don't know what clothes have been found. It could be a bathing suit. I keep thinking about "the flurry of calls" made from Casey's phone to her parents. I am not saying thats the way it happened, I'm saying that other scenarios are plausible, based on what we know at this point.

Leonard Padilla said there was a swim suit in the bag. He makes up stories in his head and believes them. Casey's not saying it was an accident as far as we know. And unless she does Baez and company can't argue that. And I hope the jury can't make up their own mind it was an accident if there are no facts in evidence of that proposed at the trial. How can the talking heads start talking about an accident if Casey hasn't? Why is everyone trying to do Casey this favor? She does not want it.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:12 AM

Someone posted earlier about it claiming that someone close to the family would be taking the toys and donating them. Another poster had said that people were leaving brand new toys and stuffed animals, and toys for tots wasn't doing so well. Just what was posted here earlier. It is a waste for toys to be left there when there are too many children who have nothing or next to nothing. Caylee can't use them toys now, she has more than she'll ever need where she's at. people should leave flowers, not toys, but JMO

I so hope someone is taking the toys and donating them.
As you say motomom, there are so many living children out there who would be so blessed if they received even one new toy this Christmas.
That to me would be a wonderful memorial for Caylee. Sharing with children who would otherwise not receive anything this year.
I love the fact that so many have 'given' to Caylee, but I would love it more if those same people thought of the children in need and I think Caylee would feel the same.
God bless all the little children this Christmas.
:rose:

Cove

12-21-2008, 02:13 AM

This is just a side thought, but since what Casey did prior to Caylee's death will be scrutinized, perhaps one can look at this another way: if Casey intended to get rid of Caylee, then we might find clues of her intent for a future devoid of maternal chores. i.e., missed appointments/ vaccines with the pediatrician, or no attempts to schedule future appointments; no purchases for shoes/clothes she needed, failure to plan for pre-school in the fall (she may be a bit young), and the like. May go to state of mind. Or just indicate a reckless 'caregiver' - but that goes without saying.

zap3

12-21-2008, 02:13 AM

I'd think it would be up to the property owner, unless the items were on the city's right-of-way? Is it city owned property?

need2no

12-21-2008, 02:14 AM

Thanks cury
Far cry from the bags of other stuffed animals that were tossed in the trash because "they smelled like smoke".
This image rebuilding is interesting to watch.

Indeed it is!

Of course if you are planning on a career as a missing child advocate you really need to clean up your act, and show your compassionate side to the world. :rolleyes:

Brattnt

12-21-2008, 02:14 AM

What a wonderful idea, and nice that they're taking the time to do that while they grieve.

Too bad they didnt do that the first time instead of throwing them in the garbage...

JMO

dref99

12-21-2008, 02:15 AM

As for the makeshift memorials. No matter how well-intentioned they may be I personally find them offensive. To me they're like fake fingernails; cheap. I don't like them. If my child were to be killed by any means, auto accident or whatever I would be inclined to remove them. We have cemeteries for that sort of thing.
... snipped for size

I thought I was the only person who thought this way - so just to mention I agree with your comment on memorials such as these - especially when complete strangers are attempting to force their ideas of mourning onto someone else.

Anyone living in this area has had a ghastly time for the past many months & surely they can be allowed to go back to their previous existence. I have always been amazed that the courts allowed the media to camp in the street and the protestors to remain.

I have great trouble believing that Caylee's death was premeditated murder - thus said, the missing month & later stories are equally impossible to understand. Too much has been said by way too many of the people involved - the smart person & the good lawyer know the benefit of silence.

jmo

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:16 AM

Indeed it is!

Of course if you are planning on a career as a missing child advocate you really need to clean up your act, and show your compassionate side to the world. :rolleyes:
why yes you do! Get your boots on, it's going to get much deeper!

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 02:16 AM

Cury-us Coyote

12-21-2008, 02:19 AM

Too bad they didnt do that the first time instead of throwing them in garbage...

JMO

Wasn't that pre-image consultant/attorney/unpaid volunteer or anyone the index finger would listen to?
jmo

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:22 AM

Indeed it is!

Of course if you are planning on a career as a missing child advocate you really need to clean up your act, and show your compassionate side to the world. :rolleyes:

They can never walk in the foot steps of the honorable people such as Mark Klass or John Walsh.

What they did to hamper this was inacceptable to be any advocate.

BitterSweet

12-21-2008, 02:23 AM

I have not personally not followed sweet Caylee's case.

But I know that many of you have been VERY dedicated to this case!

I am truly sorry for the recent news.
I know you all genuinely care deeply about Caylee.

BitterSweet

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:23 AM

Wasn't pre-image consultant/attorney/unpaid volunteer or anyone the index finger would listen to?
jmo

OH Touche'

need2no

12-21-2008, 02:24 AM

Hey darlin!
I've been wondering that too. Since I've been reading that the remains haven't been released yet, it makes me wonder if Casey is holding back on that.
From what I understand, she as the next of kin needs to release Caylee to her parents in order for them to make arrangements.
I'm wondering 2 things, is she holding back on the advice of Baez so a second autopsy can be done according to HIS wishes and rules?
Or is she holding back because this would be yet another stab to Cindy and George's heart?
I somehow can see her doing this to spite them, being the spiteful b**ch she is.
I can also see Bozo advising her to hold back for his own selfish reasons.
:shrug:

That's my understanding too OG...casey as next of kin has the right to make the decision about Caylee's remains. I assume if she releases the remains to C & G, she will also have the right to determine if her remains are buried or cremated, and other details.

If Baez is the one pushing for the 2nd autopsy is he going to pay for it..that's pretty expensive. Maybe casey will turn the remains over to him...ouch, can you imagine how pizzed C & G would be.

casey may use this as her final revenge, or she may hope if she is cooperative C & G will stand behind her through the trial. She is such an enigma it's hard to predict what she might do, or what's going through that head of hers.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:25 AM

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:26 AM

5:00 p.m.

News 13 has learned George and Cindy Anthony have decided to take all the toys left in memory of Caylee Anthony and donate them to underprivileged children for the holidays.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/12/12/minutetominute_update_in_remains_discovery_12_11.h tml

This is wonderful news. Not only that it shows the Ant's have some kind of heart and have accepted that Caylee is gone.
But, they are thinking of others and not just themselves.
Yea, I know, some of you may think it's just a way for them to play to the media, but, I happen to have a heart that always tries to look for the best in people. I'm praying that they are doing this for the right reason. That they are trying to some how make ammends.
I'm not a great fan of them, I'm not trying to go back on anything I may have said and felt about them. I'm praying and hoping that the proof that their grandaughter is truly gone may have changed their hearts for the best.
No matter what they have said and done, no matter how they have behaved up to the point of the definant declaration that Caylee is gone...they have to be hurting so very badly. Personally, I don't care what their motivation is in doing this act of kindness, at least there will be some children who may have a nice Christmas because of it.
I'll leave their motivation up to God.

panokatana

12-21-2008, 02:29 AM

Well.. its probably a good thing that Casey has additional lawyers to assist Baez. Casey is a young woman, not experienced in anything having to do with law and prison. I assume she is following the advice of her attorney, and hopefully with the additional counsel..

Respectfully snipped...

I dunno...didn't Cindy say at one point that "Casey is advising Baez." ??? :rolleyes: :)

JMO

need2no

12-21-2008, 02:30 AM

They can never walk in the foot steps of the honorable people such as Mark Klass or John Walsh.

What they did to hamper this was inacceptable to be any advocate.

ITA...and frankly it astounds me they think the public would ever accept them in this role.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:30 AM

What I don't understand, as I said upthread, is why Conway and the A's feel any need to have anything to do with the public memorial. It's not about anyone other than Caylee. That's why it's at the crime scene site.

I would think the Anthonys and their supporters would have better things to do than trouble themselves with a memorial that has nothing to do with them.

Ah I see what your saying. Like the copyright! These were not left for the Anthony's yet the Anthony's have decided what they deem fitting.

Had they not thwarted this whole investigation by trying to derail it I agree it looks bad on their part (again).

It really isn't up to them to decide but I don't look at it from that view point or give them kudos for it. I'm looking at it from the point of "someone" had a good idea to give. Basically from the city of Orlando to make the memorial a rememberance that will keep on giving.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:30 AM

It was pretty awful. Not skeletonized like Caylee but they knew her teeth had been knocked out and thus theorized she had been suffocated by violent means.

http://misty_kate.tripod.com/

I noticed this from your link.

The condition of her body made it impossible to determine the manner of her death,

And Geraldo said he had never heard of such a thing with Caylee. :rolleyes:

need2no

12-21-2008, 02:32 AM

Or she may turn them over to lee.

I considered that, but wouldn't that basically be the same as turning the remains over to her parents. Wouldn't casey assume Lee would follow their wishes?

RiverWalk

12-21-2008, 02:33 AM

why yes you do! Get your boots on, it's going to get much deeper!

I have my fly fishing waders on. I hate to sleep and wear these 24/7 but it's a must now.

phredd4

12-21-2008, 02:33 AM

... snipped for size

I thought I was the only person who thought this way - so just to mention I agree with your comment on memorials such as these - especially when complete strangers are attempting to force their ideas of mourning onto someone else.

Anyone living in this area has had a ghastly time for the past many months & surely they can be allowed to go back to their previous existence. I have always been amazed that the courts allowed the media to camp in the street and the protestors to remain.

I have great trouble believing that Caylee's death was premeditated murder - thus said, the missing month & later stories are equally impossible to understand. Too much has been said by way too many of the people involved - the smart person & the good lawyer know the benefit of silence.

jmo

I'm with you guys. I don't like to see memorials beside the road, etc, but to each his own.

My son died near our home in a small town that we have to pass every day of our lives and we didn't want to remember him dying in that spot. His memorial is at his grave site.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:34 AM

I considered that, but wouldn't that basically be the same as turning the remains over to her parents. Wouldn't casey assume Lee would follow their wishes?

I'm sure she would but she would have the last slap on them if this does happen. Kind of like the ultimate humiliation. We'll see.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:35 AM

A strange thing happened on this forum over the months. I found that there were people who I completely disagreed with on most everything, on every subject. Posters who I once thought of as adversaries, became my friends. Even with all the discourse and strong beliefs working both ways, there was opportunity to find common ground. I believe Caylee is what gives us the opportunity to find it and change from it. I am grateful to learn about people, and sometimes to realize how wrong I have judged some of the posters. The experience has made a lasting impression on me.

Bless you Adverse for sharing what I feel many of us have gone thru.
:wub:

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:36 AM

Ah I see what your saying. Like the copyright! These were not left for the Anthony's yet the Anthony's have decided what they deem fitting.

Had they not thwarted this whole investigation by trying to derail it I agree it looks bad on their part (again).

It really isn't up to them to decide but I don't look at it from that view point or give them kudos for it. I'm looking at it from the point of "someone" had a good idea to give. Basically from the city of Orlando to make the memorial a rememberance that will keep on giving.

This decision is just another typical anthony move. Not suprising except the donating part. Typically the heartfelt gifts to Caylee visit the trash.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:39 AM

I'm sure she would but she would have the last slap on them if this does happen. Kind of like the ultimate humiliation. We'll see.

Yes, I think this will tell us how she really feels about her parents. Unless she knows how it will make her look and gives over the remains to them. I hope she does. They need to do this for Caylee.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:40 AM

I have my fly fishing waders on. I hate to sleep and wear these 24/7 but it's a must now.

LOL Smart! Gotta spare pair? Mine just aren't going to be high enough I fear.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 02:42 AM

But the city can't and won't allow it to stay forever. They can't allow it to interfere with safety or traffic, if it would grow over to the street. It is a temporary memorial, and if left there, will be destroyed at some point, by the city.

And there are plenty of pics to memorilize this memorial.
We've seen them, they will be forever in my mind.
Why not do for other needy children?
To me that is a memorial in itself. I'm sure if Caylee had a say, she would want other children to receive something in her honor.
It's far better than seeing those toys ruined by the weather or tossed into a dumpster.
I would imagine that Caylee would not like those toys treated as she was...thrown away like trash.

phredd4

12-21-2008, 02:45 AM

I am sorry about your son. It hurts me to have to be reminded where children in our community died also. I love to remember the happy times and to never forget them from my heart. I do put flowers at the cemetery.

Thanks so much. Friends did leave flowers and other memorials at the site and we respectfully left them there for about a week and then decided to take them all down. We then took them to his grave site. Like you, we want to remember the happy memories, not the ones of him dying in the road from being extracted from the car. But we did respect his friends wishes for a few days. We just made it (tactfully) known later that we didn't want that to be a permanent remembrance.

Cove

12-21-2008, 02:48 AM

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:49 AM

I agree -- there are many children in the hospital suffering from abuse, cancer, and many other illnesses. Send a toy in honor of Caylee so another child can truly enjoy it. I (imho) believe that is what Caylee would want. Books especially :)

That's what I intend on doing....

I really like this idea!
I'm with you UNTIL. I think I'll do the same.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:49 AM

I agree -- there are many children in the hospital suffering from abuse, cancer, and many other illnesses. Send a toy in honor of Caylee so another child can truly enjoy it. I (imho) believe that is what Caylee would want. Books especially :)

That's what I intend on doing....

ITA. I heard that toys for tots donations are way down this year.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 02:50 AM

Indeed it is!

Of course if you are planning on a career as a missing child advocate you really need to clean up your act, and show your compassionate side to the world. :rolleyes:

I am with you. That is why the Caylee is missing sign is still on the door. They are going to use Caylee's image an as an iconic symbol of all missing children.

"Caylee Marie Anthony - The Patron Saint of Missing Children"

Caylee is a gold mine. It's that picture of her on the couch.

It's golden.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:52 AM

I would be very surprised if Casey didn't sign over custody of the remains to her parents if that's what you're talking about.

Yes that is what I was talking about. Time will tell I guess. I hope she does.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 02:53 AM

I am with you. That is why the Caylee is missing sign is still on the door. They are going to use Caylee's image an as an iconic symbol of all missing children.

"Caylee Marie Anthony - The Patron Saint of Missing Children"

Caylee is a gold mine. It's that picture of her on the couch.

It's golden.

But now I feel she was never really missing. Her mother knew where she was the whole time. Shame on her. :sad:

phredd4

12-21-2008, 02:55 AM

I'm so sorry for your loss Phredd.

Thanks so much Adverse!

I can only imagine how the holidays will always feel to the Anthony's from now on. Their lives are forever changed. Now that they know their Caylee is gone, it will only get worse for them as time goes on. The heartache never goes away. I can only think right now, "God help them" because they all will have a rough ride from now on.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 02:55 AM

Neffy

12-21-2008, 02:56 AM

I am with you. That is why the Caylee is missing sign is still on the door. They are going to use Caylee's image an as an iconic symbol of all missing children.

"Caylee Marie Anthony - The Patron Saint of Missing Children"

Caylee is a gold mine. It's that picture of her on the couch.

It's golden.

OMG I hope your not right because that is just messed up! It'll NEVER FLY!

She is NOT missing and never was. Her mother knew where she was the whole time. She was the victim of a homicide and thrown out with the trash.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 02:58 AM

why yes you do! Get your boots on, it's going to get much deeper!

I think so too. When they said that Caylee was now an angel protecting all missing children I knew then that something was up. Why Caylee? Is she the Supreme Missing Child? Why isn't Jessica Lundsford the angel who protects all missing children? There is something about it that strikes me wrong.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:01 AM

Caylee was never a missing child. She was a murdered child.

I actually think the Anthonys could have a career from this tragedy, but not in the missing children realm.

I think, if they were ever to get very honest and humble about what went awry with Casey, they could do a lot of good educating other parents and families about signs of trouble, when to intervene, what can happen if you don't, the dangers of enabling, etc. and so forth.

I'm being entirely serious. I think there's a large potential market out here for families that have been through the wringer and are willing to publicly acknowledge their wrong turns, and what they've learned from them.

You are so right. Caylee was not a missing child but a murdered child. :sad:

I also see what you are saying about the rest of your post. I just don't know how they would be welcomed. Time may be their friend if that is what they would choose to do.

Cove

12-21-2008, 03:02 AM

[QUOTE=zap3;12566368]I'm a dummy, and I guess I should Google, but is Chloroform related to Chlorine (like you would use in a pool)?[/QUO

Well. Chemically, they both contain chlorine (obviously in the case of chlorine). And, commercially, chloroform (a liquid) is made using chlorine (a gas) as one ingredient. But a "home brew" of chloroform is made by other means. Does that answer your question?

Ok, pardon if it's already been posted. I don't think I answered your question completely. So here goes. Sodium hypochlorite is a pool chemical (chlorine bleach) which can also be integral in the "home brew" manufacture of chloroform. See separate Wiki entries for "Swimming Pooll" and "Chloroform" for details.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:03 AM

I feel the same way. Can you imagine her smiling in those club photos with that baby out there in the woods. She seems inhuman.

I feel so sorry for that boy she had a crush on and his roommate that spoke with Greta. It must've scared them all so much when they realized what a monster she was. You sure couldn't tell by looking at her.

No you couldn't tell by looking at her. Warn your sons. IMO.

I bet they are glad she is gone from their life. Of course they will have to testify.

Casey has no soul.

imo

need2no

12-21-2008, 03:04 AM

I am with you. That is why the Caylee is missing sign is still on the door. They are going to use Caylee's image an as an iconic symbol of all missing children.

"Caylee Marie Anthony - The Patron Saint of Missing Children"

Caylee is a gold mine. It's that picture of her on the couch.

It's golden.

I think you are correct and find it beyond reprehensible. With what I have witnessed these past 6 months I would have to question the motive behind ANYTHING they do.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:05 AM

I feel the same way. Can you imagine her smiling in those club photos with that baby out there in the woods. She seems inhuman.

I feel so sorry for that boy she had a crush on and his roommate that spoke with Greta. It must've scared them all so much when they realized what a monster she was. You sure couldn't tell by looking at her.

I'd been thinking about them to. Especially TonE. His story of her waking in cold sweats relaying that it was only nightmares that he would leave her or something to that effect and to find out those night sweats were probably about the truth surfacing and her going to jail.

I'd imagine that he now wakes up with cold sweats.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 03:05 AM

They can never walk in the foot steps of the honorable people such as Mark Klass or John Walsh.

What they did to hamper this was inacceptable to be any advocate.

Exactly and that is what they are trying to do they want to be like those two totally worthy men. Well sorry can't forget the hammer, the brawling with the protestors, the trashing of LE, the bearing false witness. Geesh Cindy with that hammer. And all the LIES!

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:07 AM

I think so too. When they said that Caylee was now an angel protecting all missing children I knew then that something was up. Why Caylee? Is she the Supreme Missing Child? Why isn't Jessica Lundsford the angel who protects all missing children? There is something about it that strikes me wrong.

I got that same feeling. Kidfinders truck in the driveway. Who knows what they will do next. but be ready for it.
hope I'm wrong.
Just the fact they tried to make this into a career instead of going back to work or hey, actually searching.........

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:07 AM

While we can't speak for Caylee, we can honor her in other ways. As someone said, would you (or Caylee) want to see a newly purchased toy covered in dirt or rain? I certainly wouldn't.

I feel a bit different about flowers and candles - I think those items are fitting for a memorial. That's just my opinion of course. When my mom passed, we put some "lucky dice" on her grave, as she liked to gamble her nickels -- and always won. It was just a little sentiment and remberance. Yet, we'd never put something at her memorial that would be destroyed. We know she wouldn't like that!

Best,

Here on our local news they arrested a woman that was going around and stealing such items from grave sites. People were leaving small cars and things like that on graves.

ITA about the flowers and candles. Even the balloons. Send the toys to needy or sick children.

imo

need2no

12-21-2008, 03:08 AM

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 03:08 AM

I think there are groups like that who try to help one another and to hopefully prevent a tragedy in the future. That's all good.

Something like that would be okay.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:08 AM

Exactly and that is what they are trying to do they want to be like those two totally worthy men. Well sorry can't forget the hammer, the brawling with the protestors, the trashing of LE, the bearing false witness. Geesh Cindy with that hammer. And all the LIES!

How in the world can they advocate. Never trust LE? Don't tell them more then you have to? Perhaps the talk show circuit in's and out's.
Deny, deny, deny?

Sad, really reprehensible thought advocates.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:10 AM

I got that same feeling. Kidfinders truck in the driveway. Who knows what they will do next. but be ready for it.
hope I'm wrong.
Just the fact they tried to make this into a career instead of going back to work or hey, actually searching.........

I think KFN will be the next ones to be taken down. When this starts to fade away a little some of the reporters will really start digging stuff up about them. I hope anyway. :cool:

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 03:10 AM

That's my understanding too OG...casey as next of kin has the right to make the decision about Caylee's remains. I assume if she releases the remains to C & G, she will also have the right to determine if her remains are buried or cremated, and other details.

If Baez is the one pushing for the 2nd autopsy is he going to pay for it..that's pretty expensive. Maybe casey will turn the remains over to him...ouch, can you imagine how pizzed C & G would be.

casey may use this as her final revenge, or she may hope if she is cooperative C & G will stand behind her through the trial. She is such an enigma it's hard to predict what she might do, or what's going through that head of hers.

I think that as the mother of this child she does have a voice in how the remains will be handled. I can somehow see this 'spiteful b**ch' turning over the remains to Baez. I think she feels more for him than her parents. And not only would C & G be pizzed, they would also be heartbroken...again. Something that Casey would be counting on. Which actually I find very sad, not only for C & G, but for us and all the thousands of people who love Caylee.
From all I've gleaned so far, yes Bozo would have to pay for the 2nd autopsy. And seeing how he's handled the expense of the tips...which are still sitting at the Sheriff's office, and then today learning how he declined when LE released the crime scene...I can almost see him holding those remains in limbo. Then at the last moment going....never mind. As Rosana Dana Dana used to say. (sorry, Gilda Radner reference here) Never mind.
If Casey was not being represented by Bozo, I think her actions could possibly be more predicable, but with him involved, I can't even guess what will come. I happen to think he is as narcissistic as she is and they are feeding off each other.
She alone is an enigma, add Bozo, and the enigma grows to proportions I cannot even imagine.
All I want is justice for Caylee and I truly think that in spite of Casey and Bozo, it will come.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:10 AM

Did Cindy say that? I vaguely recall some such. She seemed very good at setting up possible future developments. Such as the time she pointed out the pool ladder to Greta. That didn't strike me as being right, either. It just sort of flopped and went nowhere. At the time it seemed like a potential accidental drowning setup for an excuse for her dtr.

I bet with what we know now, if we had hours to go back and watch and read we might see alot of those little gems.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 03:14 AM

Did Cindy say that? I vaguely recall some such. She seemed very good at setting up possible future developments. Such as the time she pointed out the pool ladder to Greta. That didn't strike me as being right, either. It just sort of flopped and went nowhere. At the time it seemed like a potential accidental drowning setup for an excuse for her dtr.

Excellent point. Yes she does set up possible future developments I have noticed that and about the ladder too. And she's so good at just ignoring anything she wants to ignore. Tell a lie and get caught? No biggie. Just keep on keeping on.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 03:15 AM

I have my fly fishing waders on. I hate to sleep and wear these 24/7 but it's a must now.

:lol::lol:
Thanks River, I am cracking up here. I needed it.
Still :lol:

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:15 AM

Oregangal you just reminded me up something. Baez saying in court his client did not have an endless supply of cash, when he was whining about the cost of the tips on the cd's. Then he goes and brings in these "experts" having them sign confidentiality agreements that they would not say how they were getting paid.

Well, if they could afford them why couldn't they afford a measly $1000 for the tips. Of course this was before the remains were found but still.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:17 AM

I think KFN will be the next ones to be taken down. When this starts to fade away a little some of the reporters will really start digging stuff up about them. I hope anyway. :cool:

I do too. I hope this is the end of them and these ridiculous "dreamteams".All of these people just smell $$$$ and need to be shown for the greedy souless opportunists that they are.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:21 AM

I do too. I hope this is the end of them and these ridiculous "dreamteams".All of these people just smell $$$$ and need to be shown for the greedy souless opportunists that they are.

Instead of closure and the means to an end this just seems to get more outrageous by the day.

need2no

12-21-2008, 03:23 AM

I think that as the mother of this child she does have a voice in how the remains will be handled. I can somehow see this 'spiteful b**ch' turning over the remains to Baez. I think she feels more for him than her parents. And not only would C & G be pizzed, they would also be heartbroken...again. Something that Casey would be counting on. Which actually I find very sad, not only for C & G, but for us and all the thousands of people who love Caylee.
From all I've gleaned so far, yes Bozo would have to pay for the 2nd autopsy. And seeing how he's handled the expense of the tips...which are still sitting at the Sheriff's office, and then today learning how he declined when LE released the crime scene...I can almost see him holding those remains in limbo. Then at the last moment going....never mind. As Rosana Dana Dana used to say. (sorry, Gilda Radner reference here) Never mind.
If Casey was not being represented by Bozo, I think her actions could possibly be more predicable, but with him involved, I can't even guess what will come. I happen to think he is as narcissistic as she is and they are feeding off each other.
She alone is an enigma, add Bozo, and the enigma grows to proportions I cannot even imagine.
All I want is justice for Caylee and I truly think that in spite of Casey and Bozo, it will come.

ITA, except the only thing predictable about casey is she puts herself first and she will lie in a heartbeat. If casey killed Caylee to spite Cindy, which is what I believe, she is going to have a hard time turning the remains over to her....unless she considers it for self serving reasons which would make it a tad easier.
As for Baez he just likes to muddy the water even more than it is, I think he enjoys stirring the public up as much as a few others in this case.

Rosanna danna is one of my all time favorites from SNL.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:26 AM

Yes little gems is a good description. The first time I heard/saw her was on Greta's about a day or two after she reported the baby missing. Out of the starting gate she repirmanded Greta not to ask her any dumb questions, that she was tired. She'd been on a hellacious marathon of the talk show circuit. Why didn't she just go to sleep?

Greta asked about the imaginary nanny that supposedly took the baby: Had Cindy ever met her? No. Had she ever talked to her on the phone? No. Had she ever been to her home? No. Had the nanny ever been to the anthony home. heck no. Did Cindy have nanny's phone number? No.

All this after instructing Greta that this was a [U]very[U] good and longtime family friend that they all knew well.

My trust level with Cindy Anthony was lower than a duck's arches in the first 3 minutes for obvious reasons. Nothing about her, the family or the whole situation ever set well with me after that. I tried, believe me I tried. By everything she says & does she teaches you not to trust her.

I'm not even sure the dtr was missing for the said 30 days. Who knows but what the ex homicide detective dad and mom and the mother of the year didn't take that time to hide the evidence and plot to stump the cops. It's only the 3 of them that say the missing for 30 days
scenario was real.

I'm not sure I'd believe any of them if they told me there was sand at the beach.

Oh I remember that well. I tried to. I really did.

ITA with all you are saying.

They said 30 days then you hear about George seeing Casey on the 24th. then there is the whole thing about her driving Cindy's car. Then there is Cindy saying she sent Casey a text and may have even spoke to her on the day they went to get the car. George says he saw them the 16th. I just don't know.

I don't think they were ever out of touch with Casey.

imo

MerriMent

12-21-2008, 03:26 AM

I think that as the mother of this child she does have a voice in how the remains will be handled. I can somehow see this 'spiteful b**ch' turning over the remains to Baez. I think she feels more for him than her parents. And not only would C & G be pizzed, they would also be heartbroken...again. Something that Casey would be counting on. Which actually I find very sad, not only for C & G, but for us and all the thousands of people who love Caylee.
From all I've gleaned so far, yes Bozo would have to pay for the 2nd autopsy. And seeing how he's handled the expense of the tips...which are still sitting at the Sheriff's office, and then today learning how he declined when LE released the crime scene...I can almost see him holding those remains in limbo. Then at the last moment going....never mind. As Rosana Dana Dana used to say. (sorry, Gilda Radner reference here) Never mind.
If Casey was not being represented by Bozo, I think her actions could possibly be more predicable, but with him involved, I can't even guess what will come. I happen to think he is as narcissistic as she is and they are feeding off each other.
She alone is an enigma, add Bozo, and the enigma grows to proportions I cannot even imagine.
All I want is justice for Caylee and I truly think that in spite of Casey and Bozo, it will come.

Caylee's remains won't be turned over to her incarcerated mother, they'll be turned over to her next in line as kin, grandparents. Baez has no legal right to control Caylee's remains nor can Casey give it to him. I think Baez made such a big deal about his reps witnessing the state's autopsy because he doesn't have money to pay for his own and he knows another autopsy will not turn up anything additionally helpful to his client.

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 03:27 AM

But families like the Anthonys, before this tragedy, would be the last people to participate in a group like that, imo.

That's why I think it could be beneficial for the Anthonys to use their very public stature at the moment to make a larger difference. (Of course, I suppose they can't do a thing until after Casey's trial.)

Or they could mourn quietly and with dignity and avoid publicity and just be try to be as obscure as they once were. But I guess that would be too much to ask. Why squander an opportunity?

Ah but you really are a nicer person than I am and I mean that. I don't know why they just couldn't go away.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:28 AM

Man I was going to turn in but now this board got me started.

Child advocate HMPH! How to copyright, divert attention, speak in code, swing a bat, see a duck, hear a duck call it a cat.

What they did to Tim Miller who has to be the kindest soul in the world.

The list is endless why they should NEVER be advocates.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:29 AM

I'm not fond of Baez either. He's greedy. He's looking to be a big shot and make a big name for himself. Still, everyone is entitled by law to defense counsel. Johnny Cochran he's not.

ITA about Baez. I hope he realizes that he making some powerful enemies. Everyone does deserve a defense. No doubt, but the mud slinging is so childish.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 03:30 AM

Was it MrHudson who asked if they could prove who used the computer to do the searches?

I recall in the David Westerfield trial that his defense lawyers tried to blame the searches on his son who visited his home periodically. The prosecution had computer forensics people testify that only the defendant could have done those searches. Even though the defendant changed the passwords trying to blame the searches on his own son. The depts of depravity people will stoop to is unbelieveable.

I've seen trials where they weren't able to prove computer forensics as well as they would have hoped. All we can do is hope and pray these men and women in LE in that field will be able to make that determinatin for the jury.

Cinnamon Brown trial is another one. Her Father made a fortune because he devised a means to retrieve info from hard drives no matter how mangled they were. So I know it's possible to get info from hard drives most times no matter if a person burns them or runs over them with a steam roller. We can hope justice will be done for this poor little child.

Adelena, I'm hoping that with all the cell phone and text msgs LE has, which they didn't have in these cases you mentioned, they will have been able to cross index and correlate to Casey and Casey alone.
I do know, unfortunantly, the depths of depravity people will stoop too. I wouldn't be on a crime message board if I didn't have some kind of clue. I also feel that Casey never thought far enough ahead to cover her azz completely. I also feel she worked alone. She have anyone as sick as Cinnamon's father or as Westerfield. She thought she was special and could do it on her own.
The Westerfield and Brown cases were a few years ago, the technology has changed so much, even in just a couple of years, that I'm keeping the faith that LE, the FBI and the SA has way more than those cases ever had, and justice WILL be done for our angel Caylee.

need2no

12-21-2008, 03:30 AM

MrsHudson

12-21-2008, 03:31 AM

Gotta turn in folks. Nite.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:33 AM

Yes little gems is a good description. The first time I heard/saw her was on Greta's about a day or two after she reported the baby missing. Out of the starting gate she repirmanded Greta not to ask her any dumb questions, that she was tired. She'd been on a hellacious marathon of the talk show circuit. Why didn't she just go to sleep?

Greta asked about the imaginary nanny that supposedly took the baby: Had Cindy ever met her? No. Had she ever talked to her on the phone? No. Had she ever been to her home? No. Had the nanny ever been to the anthony home. heck no. Did Cindy have nanny's phone number? No.

All this after instructing Greta that this was a [U]very[U] good and longtime family friend that they all knew well.

My trust level with Cindy Anthony was lower than a duck's arches in the first 3 minutes for obvious reasons. Nothing about her, the family or the whole situation ever set well with me after that. I tried, believe me I tried. By everything she says & does she teaches you not to trust her.

I'm not even sure the dtr was missing for the said 30 days. Who knows but what the ex homicide detective dad and mom and the mother of the year didn't take that time to hide the evidence and plot to stump the cops. It's only the 3 of them that say the missing for 30 days
scenario was real.

I'm not sure I'd believe any of them if they told me there was sand at the beach.

Lower than a duck's arches, lol never heard that, love it and I will be using it, not here but certainly in real life if it's ok with you? :biggrin:
What you said is why not many of us believe that much will change with the anthonys. When the protestors were outside their house and without fail they felt the need to get in one fight after another with hammers, hoses and baseball bats instead of just staying inside, showed me what they were about. Looking for a fight, confrontations, not normal. Not at all.
IMO

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:35 AM

I just hope time and pity doesn't erase the public's memory of the behavior and events regarding the Anthony's.

I read it earlier something about Geraldo stating charges may be impending. I hope for once he reported the truth.

Everything I've said are reasons why charges should be filed. How much money, time and manpower did they take away from LE, FBI, TIM MILLER'S group on a circus journey with their house of mirrors that these people were made to walk into.

This is so infuriating.

I'm just wondering quite possibly if this isn't the same thought LE has to file charges. That people like the Anthony's will not be FOLLOWED.

Cove

12-21-2008, 03:36 AM

snipped for length...

Greta asked about the imaginary nanny that supposedly took the baby: Had Cindy ever met her? No. Had she ever talked to her on the phone? No. Had she ever been to her home? No. Had the nanny ever been to the anthony home. heck no. Did Cindy have nanny's phone number? No.

All this after instructing Greta that this was a [U]very[U] good and longtime family friend that they all knew well. snipped for length

The more I think about Cindy, the more I believe she is the older Casey. Her soft-ish demeanor shouldn't fool us. Both willfully ignore truths (= lie) according to their best interests. And, I cannot tell which of them have a stronger survival instinct. I've changed my mind from a previous post - and now strongly believe Cindy should be charged with obstruction and whatever else will stick. George, still neutral, but that may change.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:37 AM

dref99

12-21-2008, 03:37 AM

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 03:38 AM

Perhaps Cindy made those purchases for Caylee's Christmas that she mentioned and will be donating them as well. It is true the rains come and go in that area and much would be destroyed if not removed. Remember what the area looked like when the body was found, that brush grows quickly.

My daughter had a wooden cross memorial where she was killed, it remained for years until the land was purchased to build a hwy through it, at which time it was removed.

Memorabilia from her friends went into her casket with her. notes, photo's etc., not stuffed animals.

I'm so sorry for you loss Aame. :sad:
I especially feel sad for you at this time of year. I know by personal experience how the holidays affect those of us who have lost someone close to us. Thankfully I have not lost a child and can never even claim to know what you must be going thru. My mom tho died 2 days after Christmas and I have a hard time with these 'holiday' times.
My heart and prayers are with you.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:40 AM

I just hope time and pity doesn't erase the public's memory of the behavior and events regarding the Anthony's.
It's already started. But I have faith that they've already calculated proper grieve time and on the day they have determined the public believes they have had enough time.....they'll be back.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:40 AM

I don't either. I never did believe that story very solidly. The boys Casey was hanging with said (the roommate of Tony at the time) Casey and Cindy called one another in those days she was hanging out there. Back & forth calls. Surely LE had the phone records.

Maybe Cindy and George will say the nanny had Casey's phone or that the nanny was at the house answering Casey's calls. Remember at the jailhouse call where Cindy prompted Casey about the nanny having a key to the Anthony house?

That was another setup gem moment if you ask me. Gosh this trial is going to take forever if they play all those tapes for the jury. Cindy and Casey and George can claim the imaginary nanny was at the house, murdered the baby, wrapped her in linens from the Anthony home, used the Anthony's car and so on and so forth.

Please God let the murderer's print be identified with the child's remains.
I hope and pray the killer of that baby left something from themselves so the prosecution can prove their case.

Justice for Caylee

I so hope there is something to connect the murderer to this too.

LE sure has gone back to that house enough times. I just hope it was not to late.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:40 AM

Gotta turn in folks. Nite.
G'nite dear,

Neffy

12-21-2008, 03:41 AM

IIRC correctly Tim Miller gave that interview (paraphasing) that he knew that family was messed up once he entered their home. I believe he said something to the fact that only George's friend seemed to have a grip on things.

Tim Miller showed more compassion and empathy to bringing closure then any of the Anthony household. He had much sympathy for the Grandparents but seemed to relay the disconnect they all shared under that roof.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:44 AM

Sorry I quoted myself......I'm not saying that because I acted this way makes Casey innocent......just saying that those looking from the outside in might have saw me the same way.....I don't blame myself now...though I did blame myself at the time and for quite a long time afterward.....

To address the accident and well how my sister and I talked about it...

it's kind of difficult to intentionally hit a guide wire and spin out of control over 100 feet into a telephone pole on purpose to injure my sister (which my sister and I can laugh about now)....but I wasn't thinking right...I felt horrible and blamed myself.

Sorry to babble on and on.
You've done nothing wrong by your sister. Your sister loves you and knows that. But I totally understand how you felt. This is apples and oranges from the anthony case. Your honesty is certainly one of the reasons. Casey partying is beyond inappropriate when her own baby was kidnapped. You weren't wondering where your sister was, who might be hurting her. Way different to me anywho.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:45 AM

no doubt they will try to copyright the photo of caylee on the couch and everything else related to caylee. It's all about the almight dollar. I wouldn't be suprised if they charged admission to attend the funeral. Cash only of course -- to find "missing children".

Sorry if that sounds mean, but they have to find a way to keep from working.

For those that remember Mark Lunsford (who I do respect as a missing child advocate) filed suit in 2008 alleging that deputies made two visits to the trailer where Couey lived in one day, but they failed to go inside or obtain a search warrant.

They also claim investigators ignored suspicious behavior inside the trailer -- which was just yards from the Lunsfords' home -- during their search for the little girl.

So -- LE made 2 visits to the Caylee burial site, along with many searchers. I do wonder if the A's will have any suits forthcoming.

Best,

But where does the Anthony's rights to Caylee begin and end? They are only the grandparents. I am confused about that.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:47 AM

Wow, you must not believe we have the best justice system in the world.
99% of the time, I sure do.
High profile cases that brings these clowns out of the woodwork? Nope!

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 03:49 AM

I'm so sorry for your loss Phredd.

As am I Phredd.
It seems that many of us have lost loved ones and to learn the finality of Caylee has brought out all of our emotions about our losses yet again.
I know that I fell in love with this little girl the moment I heard of her. I've been on the case from day one, as many of you have.
I know I am feeling as if I've lost someone again.
To all who have lost a child, my heart is with you. To all who may have lost someone close to them at this time of year, my mom...2 days after Christmas, my dad the Nov before...I am praying for all of us.
I feel your pain and I know that with the news of Caylee has brought up all our emotions yet again.
I pray for all of you. I pray that when the trial comes for Caylee we will all be able to focus on and have faith that justice will be done.
I feel that we may all be able to have yet another step toward our own healing in that.
Caylee came to us for a reason. And that reason may be to help us heal our own wounds.

AlohaRainbow

12-21-2008, 03:52 AM

http://s377.photobucket.com/albums/oo218/really3997/

I posted some more...how would you like to live here.
really - thanks for posting the photos.
i hope you'll post them in the links thread :)

need2no

12-21-2008, 03:54 AM

One thing that has always stuck in my claw is what Shirley Pease told LE:

Shirley Pease, Cindy’s mother: “Well she took a weeks vacation. She didn’t go anywhere. She was supposed to go down and see her MIL and spend a couple of days at the beach and stuff. She ended up staying home because everyday Casey would say she and Caylee were coming the next day. And there was a week or two that went by and she took another week off and she was hoping then. She never went anywhere that week. It was between the time she’s supposed to be with friends or whatever it was she was going to be doing. It was before Father’s Day.

I think something big went down in the Anthony house in the beginning of June, otherwise why was Cindy so worried about seeing Caylee if casey had left under good terms and advised Cindy where she and Caylee were going to be and stayed in contact with her. Did casey leave in anger and perhaps threaten Cindy with never seeing Caylee again? Why didn't she just on her vacation as planned if everything was hunky dorey? So where was casey and Caylee in the beginning of June, and why did Cindy lie about this?

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:54 AM

He reminds me of a baby attorney -- fresh out of school. He's the last person I would want to represent me (not that I need any representation).

:tongue:

That's a good one. He and Casey have a combined age of about 24. They each act about 12. :tongue::lol:

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:55 AM

I ducked out (no pun intended) when they were showing those fights on the news. I couldn't stand it. Could just be me, but George came off as putting on a big show with those fights. He was trying to make himself look blameless. I think he has at least some knowledge that his dtr did wrong. He knows what dead body smells like. Yup, they should've just stayed quiet.

Please do use the phrase lower than a duck's arches. It's from one of my best friends. She's SO funny. She would love it if you enjoyed that phrase and pass it around so people can smile and enjoy themselves. Laughter is good for the soul. She has another one about using a ladder to get up on the curb but I forget how it goes. lolHonestly I have never seen people act like that. It was very telling. You were smart to leave the room. I was mesmerized.
Thank your friend, it a great little saying.
Yes george and cindy actually looked more in battle with each other. George never came off how he wanted. In fact after watching the behavior of both of them and now lee I believe they would do just about anything to show that they are never wrong. I don't think they are going to change now.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 03:57 AM

But where does the Anthony's rights to Caylee begin and end? They are only the grandparents. I am confused about that.Depends, are you asking about law or what cindy thinks?
:sneaky:

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:57 AM

I heard the legal eagles on tv talking about that and they said the Mother would have to sign over rights for the child to be burried and so forth. I don't know how far she can sign her rights over or how that might work. But right now Casey is only accused, not convicted so she still has legal right to her child.

Cindy waited too long to try to get custody of the baby. I'm sure she had no idea her daughter was capable of such a heinous act.

To little to late. :sad:

I Hope she does sign the rights over to Cindy and George. I believe they really need to do this. For themselves and Caylee.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 03:59 AM

Depends, are you asking about law or what cindy thinks?
:sneaky:

Well that is true. :tongue:

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:01 AM

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:03 AM

As am I Phredd.
It seems that many of us have lost loved ones and to learn the finality of Caylee has brought out all of our emotions about our losses yet again.
I know that I fell in love with this little girl the moment I heard of her. I've been on the case from day one, as many of you have.
I know I am feeling as if I've lost someone again.
To all who have lost a child, my heart is with you. To all who may have lost someone close to them at this time of year, my mom...2 days after Christmas, my dad the Nov before...I am praying for all of us.
I feel your pain and I know that with the news of Caylee has brought up all our emotions yet again.
I pray for all of you. I pray that when the trial comes for Caylee we will all be able to focus on and have faith that justice will be done.
I feel that we may all be able to have yet another step toward our own healing in that.
Caylee came to us for a reason. And that reason may be to help us heal our own wounds.
True and beautiful. Thank you!

Steph45

12-21-2008, 04:05 AM

But where does the Anthony's rights to Caylee begin and end? They are only the grandparents. I am confused about that.

All I know is that in the State of California....I was deemed next of kin when my Dad died. He was legally divorced from my Mom. So... being the eldest child the whole thing was on me. My Dad's parents legally had no say in the situation. I don't know what Florida law allows. Just so sad all around.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:09 AM

I very much appreciate what you are saying.

And yes, I'm not saying it's the same.....I feel Casey is responsible.....

but if she had died and the police had decided to make a case against me......they could have used just the fact that I went out and partied night after night....

can I say I would have done so if she would have died.....nope...but can't say I wouldn't have.....considering there is no way I could have handle her dying....I felt guilty enough just seriously injuring her.....I know I would have pulled away from everyone...including my parents.....but not sure what I would have done to end that pain and guilt.
I get that but would you have put her in a trash bag and thown her in the woods? Would we find missing sister sites on your computer??????

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:10 AM

Can't sleep tonight.

I am wondering how long before we see a trial for Casey. Having worked in the legal field for years I know it can take a very long time to actually get a case to trial. If her attorney pushes it they will have a time limit for her to get a speedy trial. I doubt he will do that as he is going to need time to go through all the reports from the ME and CSI, FBI, etc. Sometimes we did not get a case to trial for at least 2 years.

I have worked on both sides, the defense and prosecution and I can tell you it really pushes the prosecution to go to trial fast as they have so many cases they are working to get them ready for court.

I hated worked for the defense because I knew from the evidence we had from discovery that our client was guilty. Finally had to just get out of it all together.

Neffy

12-21-2008, 04:10 AM

I very much appreciate what you are saying.

And yes, I'm not saying it's the same.....I feel Casey is responsible.....

but if she had died and the police had decided to make a case against me......they could have used just the fact that I went out and partied night after night....

can I say I would have done so if she would have died.....nope...but can't say I wouldn't have.....considering there is no way I could have handle her dying....I felt guilty enough just seriously injuring her.....I know I would have pulled away from everyone...including my parents.....but not sure what I would have done to end that pain and guilt.

I see very minute parallels in your story vs Casey's. Your sister wasn't missing let alone did you take off (even if you couldn't due to injury). Did you deny being there? Was your story the real driver took off? She was driving?

Casey's partying is just one aspect.

Glad to hear you've come to terms and your sister and you are good.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:12 AM

riohouse

12-21-2008, 04:13 AM

This is the female version of Scott Perterson,Chilling...........

riohouse

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:17 AM

This is the female version of Scott Perterson,Chilling...........

riohouse

I agree. Scott is older than Casey so was probably betterat reading people than Casey.

The mother's are pretty much the same too. I always thought Scott's mother was the female version of him and I am betting Cindy is the older version of Casey. The mother's just never murdered anyone that we know of.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:18 AM

This is the female version of Scott Perterson,Chilling...........

riohouse
ain't she though? and just as brilliant!

need2no

12-21-2008, 04:18 AM

I could be completely misjudging the grandparents. George didn't come off credible to me during the sofa interview with Greta. I do pray for them though. God knows their hearts. They have to be in living you know what. That's for sure.

Someone said the baby was well cared for and I know what was meant. They did provide a good clean and fun looking home for her. I know they loved her. I am so sorry for them. Can't imagine the horror of your child being arrested for such a terrible thing. No matter what they do need our prayers.

I do feel sad for them and pray for them, and realize they must be suffering terribly, and will continue to for a long time. How could you not be heartbroken and devastated over the loss of this precious child in your life. How could you not be ripped apart by the way she died and was dumped, and I have no doubt they loved her very much. It must be heart wrenching to look at all the adorable pictures and other reminders of when Caylee was around bringing joy into their hearts and their home.

I can't imagine being in their shoes...their whole world as they knew it has been yanked out from under them and will never ever be the same. They can't even start to move forward until the trial is over, and that will be extremely hard and draining on them.

However, though I feel sadness, compassion and sympathy for them and pray their hearts can heal, this doesn't change how I feel about them, or my negative opinions regarding how they handled things in this situation, or the impact/bad influence they had on casey's life, or give them a pass on the lies, behavior, coverups, put downs, and all the other stuff.

I can, and have separated the 2 feelings.

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:21 AM

This has gotten me thinking.

A pychopath raising a child and the child is a pyschopath. Or a sociapath. That would make a really strange household.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 04:25 AM

I feel the same way. I too think Caylee would want the toys to be played with and loved by some other child. Nice post Oregongal.. Oregon is a beautiful place, and you are blessed to live there.

Thank you Adverse. I understand how some may think these toys and such should remain for awhile. But, being it Christmas time with so many children that are doing without, I truly feel that they should be picked up and given to those who are alive and may only have them as their only gifts this year. I think Caylee would like that more than having them be rained on and ruined.
Yes, Oregon is a beautiful place, we call it God's country, but I don't say that because I'm sure there are many on this board who feel the same about where they live. I am blessed to live here, especially after living most of my life in So Calif 29 yrs ago.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 04:25 AM

Another gem moment was when George announced to Greta his shed had been broken into. He couldn't see his way clear to notify cops they haden't seen their dtr or grandbaby for 30 days, but reported a shed breakin promptly. Had the cops out there and everything. Big show of the shed break-in.

Then he tells Greta that Casey sole it. What the heck was that all about? Only thing I could think of is they were trying to cover dead body smell with gasoline from the gas cans.

George wasn't believable with his feigned naivety. He made a show to Greta like So don't worry about that folks. The gas can shed breakin mystery is solved. Casey runs out of gas often and steals gas from us. Why didn't I think of that? I coulda had a V-8 moment there

I have cop friends and he'd right in character with everything he's done. Stayed in the background and send the women out first to do the talking. That way if they trip themselves up, better them than me. I'll be blameless still. The feigned outrage that anyone would think their dtr is responsible in any way for any wrongdoing. how dare people. I'll beat them with a ball bat I'm so stressed in all my feigned righteous anger.

Then his I can explain goofy not-believable stories.

Classic cop tactics. in my opinion. I base that on personal experience.

I've been observing George and he's conducted himself exactly as I expected he would. Similar to that cop in Illinois. Mr. the media has destroyed all my relationships. classic cop & ex-cop behavior when in a pickle.

I don't think I will ever understand. Who did they think was feeding Caylee, Where was she sleeping, Was she getting bathed? There was no clothes of hers taken. According to Cindy's myspace post she wondered about these things too but why didn't they push it more? Even though by July 3rd it was to late. She had their car they could have reported it stolen.

Poor little Caylee. :rose:

Besides the video what gets to me more then anything is seeing her still picture over at the findcaylee website with 2005-2008 and her coloring book. Gets to me bad.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:26 AM

I appreciate your telling your story about what happened with you and your sister. I know youth especially runs rampant and does things an older person wouldn't. One time a shrink on tv said science knows now that the brain isn't fully developed until about age 25 and for some older than that. He looked right into the camera and said So we can all forgive ourselves for all the stupid things we did in our youth.

My husband and I laughed because we've looked back with those What were we thinking! moments.

I thought about that aspect with Casey. But hiding the body bodes very badly with me. I think it was premeditated.

When you watch the tapes of casey talking to her brother and parents it's amazing. Pulling teeth to get answers. her manipulation by always talking about family. I can't even put into words how she makes me feel when I see her conning people. She never asks them questions about Caylee, Wouldn't that be the first thing out of your mouth? not her. Code talk? yet we're all supposed to be looking for her? This was the most blatant liar I have ever seen. She actually thought people would buy this? Ugh. I just know once the jury gets a dose of Casey, it's over for her. For a LONG time.

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:28 AM

No, but scooters mom gave some of her babies away (heck, at least she didn't murder them). I have to wonder if this was KC's first child.

Things that ake you go hmmmmmm.....

I have wondered if Casey had had any previous pregancies myself. And if she had, had she gotten an abortion and finally Cindy made her have the child. Just thoughts I have had and nothing has ever come out that I know of stating that any of it happened.

aubrey04

12-21-2008, 04:29 AM

need2know,

I agree with you. I feel very sorry for the Ant's right now. I can't imagine what they are going through. It must be the worst feeling in the world to not only have a grandchild die.. but to have your daughter as the prime suspect is just mind boggling.

I don't like them at all, but I can sympathize with them.. It is terrible what Casey has drug them through. I just hope they'll break free of her finally but I don't see that happening.

:sad:

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 04:32 AM

When you watch the tapes of casey talking to her brother and parents it's amazing. Pulling teeth to get answers. her manipulation by always talking about family. I can't even put into words how she makes me feel when I see her conning people. She never asks them questions about Caylee, Wouldn't that be the first thing out of your mouth? not her. Code talk? yet we're all supposed to be looking for her? This was the most blatant liar I have ever seen. She actually thought people would buy this? Ugh. I just know once the jury gets a dose of Casey, it's over for her. For a LONG time.

But did you notice not a one of them comes out and ask her. Did you do something to Caylee? They went right along with the nanny thing, are we in danger. Is Caylee in danger, is Caylee okay. Not once did they confront her. So strange. They may be a family but it is like they are strangers.

imo

Lidia

12-21-2008, 04:36 AM

It is so disturbing that the one person that poor child had who supposed to love her unconditionally, killed her. Casey Anthony premeditated this and the defense of "insanity" would just be a crock.

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:36 AM

I think so too.....I just don't see how this didn't seal the case for the prosecution with finding Caylee, not that I didn't think that they had it sealed before the discovery.

The prosecution is not ready to go. They had a ton of stuff they will have to go through and trial prep is really time consuming and hard. I know, it was what I did for years. I am and was a para-legal. As a para-legal I can do everything but go into a court room and try the case.

This case will have mountains of exhibits to process and that is just the beginning. There will motion after motion filed by both sides. Heck, we had an attorney in the area that could not try a case with out having a chalk board in the court room, he just could not present his case with out writing on that board all the time. The first motion I would type when we had a case that he was on the other side was to file a motion that my attorney was alergic to chalk dust and as such the chalk board should be removed from the court room.

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:37 AM

But did you notice not a one of them comes out and ask her. Did you do something to Caylee? They went right along with the nanny thing, are we in danger. Is Caylee in danger, is Caylee okay. Not once did they confront her. So strange. They may be a family but it is like they are strangers.

imo
Craziest thing I ever saw. Then there's that one part where Casey is concerned that Cindy keeps her strength up and eats and CIndy turns to George in what looked to me like...*Look at our beautiful daughter, worrying about us at a time like this..isn't she wonderful!!!!!! blech
more manipulation. Why when she was asked is anyone else involved and casey said. I don't know, I haven't had a chance to talk to anyone. Why didn't one of them say TALK TO WHO??? WHO WOULD YOU TALK TO? They both sat there and looked like, ok good enough for us Casey, ya got any money? need anything.. we love you! sick

Heyes

12-21-2008, 04:40 AM

OK peeps. It's been a joy talking to all of you tonight! Thanks for an interesting evening.
Good night!

norwood

12-21-2008, 04:52 AM

Been a pleasure visiting with you all tonight. Going to try to sleep again. Long day tomorrow.

Good night and stay safe

Haggabag

12-21-2008, 04:53 AM

As none of us are on the jury and have no affect on this case, we can be as EMOTIONAL as we want.

Yes, we can. And sometimes it was not by choice. A lot of us were just sucked into this case because we are loving human beings who can't understand the heart of a sociopath. We were sucked in because we love our children and we can't imagine how a parent could kill his/her child for the only reason that she wanted to party and dance and be FREE from parental reponsibilities.

It makes my heart sick.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 04:54 AM

Well, I think you are right....

but after my sister and I were in a car accident....I was released after one night, she spent almost two weeks in ICU.....

I felt so guilty....though I visited her, I didn't visit as much as I should have during that period, and I went out every night, partied, drank, and danced.....I wanted to forget.....I probably looked like I was having a great time to those I went out with.

I know it's not the same....but in a way it is the same......people in general would have looked at me and thought omg he is cold and uncaring during that time.

I'll end it there, because I keep typing this over and over again (first draft was so long but settling for this)....I have shared with a couple people I knew when it was CTV message boards, think this is the first time on any message board though. There is much more I could say....my sister is married now and has two beautiful children....she never blamed me....though I blame myself.

I do understand you Nar. My brother years ago was killed in an auto accident. One of my other brothers was with him and survived. All of us, the surviving siblings, behaved in a way that would have seemed unatural to many.
You say it's not the same....but in a way it is the same.
I just feel I have to say to you, no it's not the same.
Our experience was truly an accident. Something that hit us out of the blue.
I do not think that Caylee's death was an accident in any way and her mother was the cause of her death.
When someone does something to kill the pain as you and I and my other brothers did when something happened that was never expected, it is different, understandable and forgivable.
When someone does something on purpose and behaves as Casey did, it is not understandable.
I'm so sorry about what you went thru and thankfully she is still alive.
No matter what happened, no matter how you reacted you need to forgive yourself and shed your guilt. Your sister is alive and as you say has never blamed you. Thank God. My brother died. Will never have a wife and children.
I know I can't tell you how you should feel. I wouldn't even try. I don't even know how long ago this happened. But, I've been there friend. If you feel comfortable to do so, feel free to pm me.
I am seeing that Caylee's death has brought up many emotions for those of us who have lost a loved one, or many loved ones, as I said in a previous post. And the 'holiday' time does not seem so holiday to many of us.
Again, for Caylee and for all of us who are struggling thru this supposed 'happy' time...my prayers for all are constant.

Lidia

12-21-2008, 04:54 AM

It makes me sick that that poor little baby was ever left alone with that monster.

I don't think they'll go with an insanity defense. She is not crazy; just evil.

Exactly!!!!

aubrey04

12-21-2008, 04:58 AM

It is so disturbing that the one person that poor child had who supposed to love her unconditionally, killed her. Casey Anthony premeditated this and the defense of "insanity" would just be a crock.

You have to be bat... crazy to get off on an insanity plea. Even Andrea Yates, who is nuttier than squirrels droppings, didn't get the insanity verdict the first go around. The basic fact is whether a person knew right from wrong.. You can have major personality disorders and mental illnesses and still not be deemed insane in the legal sense.

Did Casey know right from wrong? I would say yes, she did. She knew enough to cover up her crime. She disposed the body and lied about Caylee for over a month.

I think Casey is suffering from some personality disorders, but they certainly aren't at the insanity level. ..jmo though.

cuddlyrunner

12-21-2008, 05:02 AM

Morning all-just about to watch Geraldo. I will be cross if he comes over too pro defence!

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 05:03 AM

Morning all-just about to watch Geraldo. I will be cross if he comes over too pro defence!

Be prepared to be cross then. :tongue:

cuddlyrunner

12-21-2008, 05:08 AM

8 minutes into it and GRRRRR, LE punched grandparents in the stomach????Hello, Casey is the one accused not LE!!!

need2no

12-21-2008, 05:09 AM

Yes I've seen so many people here express the two opposing feelings about them. It's understandable. I think a missing person would be the worst especially a little child. No matter how hurtful the truth needed to be apparent; that they found the baby's remains.

It's a pity they didn't do tough love with Casey before it was too late. No one has a crystal ball tho.

No, children don't come with instruction manuals, and parents aren't given crystal balls. Some kids head down the wrong path despite their parents best efforts to prevent it, or intervene. However that is not what I see here. In this case anyone can see how the A's did wrong by casey....my gawd she pretended to be employed for 2 years and they pretended they didn't know she wasn't employed. They overlooked or covered for her lies and stealing and it appears did nothing to push her toward accepting responsibility for her own life, her mistakes and her child's life. They played games with her mind, games with each other, looked the other way and controlled with money and threats with a horrific end to the game. It was Cindy's desire that casey have the baby, and because Cindy was and is a control freak basically she was creating the life she apparently wanted to live..even though she could never have dreamed how all this would end.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 05:11 AM

I do feel sad for them and pray for them, and realize they must be suffering terribly, and will continue to for a long time. How could you not be heartbroken and devastated over the loss of this precious child in your life. How could you not be ripped apart by the way she died and was dumped, and I have no doubt they loved her very much. It must be heart wrenching to look at all the adorable pictures and other reminders of when Caylee was around bringing joy into their hearts and their home.

I can't imagine being in their shoes...their whole world as they knew it has been yanked out from under them and will never ever be the same. They can't even start to move forward until the trial is over, and that will be extremely hard and draining on them.

However, though I feel sadness, compassion and sympathy for them and pray their hearts can heal, this doesn't change how I feel about them, or my negative opinions regarding how they handled things in this situation, or the impact/bad influence they had on casey's life, or give them a pass on the lies, behavior, coverups, put downs, and all the other stuff.

I can, and have separated the 2 feelings.

You said it better than I could ever n2n. Especially your last sentence.
Thank you.
You are reading my mind again.

need2no

12-21-2008, 05:12 AM

By that logic.. I guess we would expect Caylee to have turned out that way had she grown up.

Well I can say I would surely not have wanted to see Cindy raise Caylee.

5boxersmom

12-21-2008, 05:15 AM

Definitely....

He's been pro-defense in this case days ago if not longer. (I know you already knew that, but just letting the other person that you are replying to know)

Oh yeah. Geraldo and Baez are old boating buddies. :tongue:

aubrey04

12-21-2008, 05:16 AM

By that logic.. I guess we would expect Caylee to have turned out that way had she grown up.

That's not very nice. :no: You're talking about a deceased little girl.

There is no telling what she would have grown up to be -- thanks to Casey. Many children raised by messed up parents grow up to be fine. Others do not.

Casey and Cindy are very similar. Casey and Cindy both discussed being a lot alike during one jail house visit. Cindy: "You're like me".. Casey: "Yes, I am a lot like you"..

need2no

12-21-2008, 05:17 AM

You said it better than I could ever n2n. Especially your last sentence.
Thank you.
You are reading my mind again.

At your service m'am. :smile:

aubrey04

12-21-2008, 05:18 AM

You got your wish.

Wow............ :thumbdown:

Now that we have reached that level.. I am outta here. GN.

Please try to be respectful of the little girl who died at the hands of her mother..goodness.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 05:19 AM

No, but scooters mom gave some of her babies away (heck, at least she didn't murder them). I have to wonder if this was KC's first child.

Things that ake you go hmmmmmm.....

Yep, you're right UNTIL....hmmmmmm.....

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 05:34 AM

Craziest thing I ever saw. Then there's that one part where Casey is concerned that Cindy keeps her strength up and eats and CIndy turns to George in what looked to me like...*Look at our beautiful daughter, worrying about us at a time like this..isn't she wonderful!!!!!! blech
more manipulation. Why when she was asked is anyone else involved and casey said. I don't know, I haven't had a chance to talk to anyone. Why didn't one of them say TALK TO WHO??? WHO WOULD YOU TALK TO? They both sat there and looked like, ok good enough for us Casey, ya got any money? need anything.. we love you! sick

And she's laughing while she is telling Cindy to keep her strength up, eat and sleep.
We don't have a shaking head smilie, but that's what I want to insert here.
Casey is a master at manipulation. Been a victim of it myself and when I see these tapes, I recognize that manipulation. Mine was with my ex.
I can sort of put myself in C & G's place...wife....and Casey in my ex's place....husband and it's not much different.
I do tho find it amazing that instead of husband/wife, it's daughter/parents.
I also know that it took years for them to be in this place and I as a parent, just don't get it.
I may have allowed (unknowingly) my ex to run all over me, but with my kids....no way. Not saying my kids didn't try, but for some reason, maybe that mother/child thing...there was/is something different going on there with the Ant family.
As you say Heyes....sick.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 05:58 AM

*respectfully snipped*

How can anyone get used to being around someone like that without losing their mind? Cindy is a big liar too. That's probably why it doesn't bother her. Have they made George nutty too? Or is he just like them? I was positive the brother wouldn't go along with it. It shocked me that he did.

Again Adalena, speaking from personal experience, you get used to it by being pulled in with the liars manipulations. They lie so well that you begin to think you are the crazy one for doubting them.
It is sick, it is weird, it is something I now know it was that way. But, while I was in it, I truly did not see it.
In the Ant's case, if Casey was the only liar and manipulator, it would have been crazy making for all of the family, but to think that Cindy was the same....OMG....no matter how they presented themselves, they were all living in a crazy house.
I keep thinking of what Mark Klass said...this was a toxic family.
I so agree with him. After 5 yrs of being away from my toxic, lying, socio/narcissist husband, talking with counselors and my dd, who lived thru this also, I'm able to see that toxicisity (is that a word? lol) of our family.
Thankfully, it never led to murder.
And I must say again, no matter how harsh it sounds, I feel somewhat thankful that Caylee was saved from this family.
The manner she was saved was horrendous and unforgivable. But, I have many times looked ahead and seen what her life may have been.
This sweet child was saved from the cycle. She broke the cycle.
She is safe and sound now. There is so much worse that could have happened to her while she was alive.
I know that sounds harsh, but truly, I believe she was saved from much worse. The Lord reached down and brought her to him.
Please, throw the soft pillows at me.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 06:17 AM

True - and abortions aren't cheap (are they). My neice has had several, and her dad always paid for them (long story - don't even want to go there). But there has to be some re-coop time, and I wonder how she would hide that (especially with no money).

Which makes me wonder - she hid her pregnancy for 7 months and said to her friend she didn't want the baby. Why didn't she abort early on.

So many questions, so few answers....

I just heard within the last couple of days....don't even ask me how or why...that an abortion is between $600-800.
I would imagine that Casey either didn't have those bucks or she was one of those who thought if she didn't think about it (the baby) it would just go away. When confronted, she may have even convinced herself that she wasn't pregnant. What was it she said? I'd have to have had sex to be pregnant.
We have to remember Casey is not normal in her thinking. I can see her being one of those 'girls' that if she hadn't been confronted by Cindy, she may have had that baby and done what some of the 'girls' in the news not very long ago....dumped her in a dumpster or killed her at birth. I know, sickening. Yet, then we again come back to what Cindy's involvment and will was at the time.
My dd was not even living with me at the time but, I knew she was pregnant practically from the first. She didn't deny it, yet if she had I would have been in her face until she admitted it.
Why did it take Cindy and George 7 months and at her brothers wedding and others questioning to recognize Casey's pregnancy?
As you say Until, so many questions, so few answers.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 06:35 AM

You have to be bat... crazy to get off on an insanity plea. Even Andrea Yates, who is nuttier than squirrels droppings, didn't get the insanity verdict the first go around. The basic fact is whether a person knew right from wrong.. You can have major personality disorders and mental illnesses and still not be deemed insane in the legal sense.

Did Casey know right from wrong? I would say yes, she did. She knew enough to cover up her crime. She disposed the body and lied about Caylee for over a month.

I think Casey is suffering from some personality disorders, but they certainly aren't at the insanity level. ..jmo though.

I don't even equate Andrea with Casey in any way. Andrea was truly in my eyes and the eyes of the law insane. She finally got the sentence she deserved.Andrea in time with the professional help she is getting where she is, can be cured.
Casey is not insane. She has a couple of major personality disorders. Which in and of themselves are a mental illness and which can never be cured. But, as you say, in the legal sense she is not insane. I have to say in the legal sense because I think that anyone who kills is crazy. I cannot wrap my mind around it. But, I also do understand legal sense as opposed to my sense.
I totally agree with everything you've said Aubrey.

Oregongal

12-21-2008, 06:45 AM

You got your wish.

Ok, I see where this is going.
I think your comment Adverse was rude and uncalled for.
I'm out for the night, as I see many are.
Good night all.
For Caylee...
:rose::rose::rose:

ellegna

12-21-2008, 07:06 AM

Good morning

New thread for Sunday morning
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=346924

dref99

12-21-2008, 07:07 AM

Well I can say I would surely not have wanted to see Cindy raise Caylee.

From everything I have read, Cindy & husband provided everything for Casey and Caylee. Cindy probably now wishes "if only I had agreed to raise her". That would have been a much better solution - so I very much disagree with your comment.

jmo

BobbisAngel

12-21-2008, 07:13 AM

I can offer a theory on that! If Cindy had been seeing a psychiatrist for depression and was taking anti-depressants, she may have had some anti-anxiety meds too........Xanax????

I agree and there would be nothing wrong with that. They probably just need the dates on medication.

I'm wondering if Zanny the Nanny wasn't the medication xanax. Maybe that is actually who Casey's day care provider was instead of a real person. If Casey wanted to go do something then give Caylee xanax to knock her out for a certain amount of time. Maybe that is why LE is checking the meds in the medicine cabinet. That should have been done right away instead of waiting until now though. I suppose LE could check with her doc or the drugstore to see when the meds were first prescribed.

BobbisAngel

12-21-2008, 07:31 AM

They're not telling them to do otherwise. They're simply ensuring that they're put to good use before they're ruined. I think it's commendable.

I agree with you. Why not bring joy to some other little ones over the holidays in memory of Caylee. If something isn't done with the stuffed animals they will just get ruined and I would hate for that to happen.
I would do the same thing if it were me. I doubt if the people who have brought different things to the memorial expect it to last forever where it is. I'll bet that Caylee would like the idea of sharing her toys with other little kids who don't have much.

BobbisAngel

12-21-2008, 08:00 AM

If folks can spend 50.00 on a teddy (I've seen some huge ones) - why not put up a small tarp cover like they did to cover the evidence. If not, donate the toys to a local hospital in Caylee's name -- that's what i would do instead of putting toys in the dirt and letting them be destroyed by the elements. I'd suggest donating to the many foundations (missing children) in Caylee's name as well.

Best,

Personally I would much rather see the toys go to children who won't be getting much for Christmas then to a hospital where there are toys galore. To give those toys to little children who don't have much...in Caylee's name...I believe would really please little Caylee. If I were in the Anthony's shoes I would do exactly what they are doing. Why not brighten someone elses Christmas.

In order to donate the toys to children who won't be getting much for Christmas the memorial has to be taken down by Monday as Christmas eve is Wednesday night. The different organizations who deliver dinner fixings and gifts have to have a couple days to do the deliverys in.

BobbisAngel

12-21-2008, 08:10 AM

I still haven't heard confirmation from Dr. G or anyone that there was duct tape around the mouth. Only there was NO soft tissue on the entire body - only bones. Does anyone have a link that there was in fact duct tape on the mouth (from LE or Dr. G)?? I'm beginning to think this is a rumor.

Thanks so much,

Remember that it was said that there was soft tissue attached to the duct tape? Well, there was no soft tissue and I doubt that there was duct tape. The ME wouldn't be dealing with the duct tape though so who knows. If duct tape was over her mouth how did her teeth end up all over the place? There may have been duct tape on the plastic to try and hold the bag together so nothing could fall out but it doesn't really sound like it could have been on her mouth or wrapped around her head. That sounds like something Lenny would have said. He thinks he has all of the facts but I doubt if LE or anyone else at the crime scene is talking about what was found or how the body was found....tape, etc. Swimsuit....Lenny again! I let things that he says go in one ear and out the other. Personally I think if there were clothing in the bag it was probably the clothes Caylee was wearing that day and a blanket or sheet from her bedroom.

cassidy

12-21-2008, 08:13 AM

Personally I would much rather see the toys go to children who won't be getting much for Christmas then to a hospital where there are toys galore. To give those toys to little children who don't have much...in Caylee's name...I believe would really please little Caylee. If I were in the Anthony's shoes I would do exactly what they are doing. Why not brighten someone elses Christmas.

In order to donate the toys to children who won't be getting much for Christmas the memorial has to be taken down by Monday as Christmas eve is Wednesday night. The different organizations who deliver dinner fixings and gifts have to have a couple days to do the deliverys in.

I hope soneone has the sense to do that too. While the memorial is touching and a wonderful gesture, the toys would be better used donated in Caylee's name to an organization that would distribute them to needy children.
JMO

spageddy

12-21-2008, 08:15 AM

Sorry I quoted myself......I'm not saying that because I acted this way makes Casey innocent......just saying that those looking from the outside in might have saw me the same way.....I don't blame myself now...though I did blame myself at the time and for quite a long time afterward.....

To address the accident and well how my sister and I talked about it...

it's kind of difficult to intentionally hit a guide wire and spin out of control over 100 feet into a telephone pole on purpose to injure my sister (which my sister and I can laugh about now)....but I wasn't thinking right...I felt horrible and blamed myself.

Sorry to babble on and on.
Oh, Narci,
you KNEW where your sister was. You knew she was getting the care that she needed. And you had been through trauma yourself!

spageddy

12-21-2008, 08:21 AM

I hope soneone has the sense to do that too. While the memorial is touching and a wonderful gesture, the toys would be better used donated in Caylee's name to an organization that would distribute them to needy children.
JMO
Excellent idea.So many families in need. Besides, IMO, there is nothing so sad as a forgotten memorial with dirty ragged toys, deflated balloons, etc. It happens after a while in many cases.

Amy

12-21-2008, 10:12 AM

That's not very nice. :no: You're talking about a deceased little girl.

There is no telling what she would have grown up to be -- thanks to Casey. Many children raised by messed up parents grow up to be fine. Others do not.

Casey and Cindy are very similar. Casey and Cindy both discussed being a lot alike during one jail house visit. Cindy: "You're like me".. Casey: "Yes, I am a lot like you"..

She wasn't being disrespectful of Caylee @ all. It IS as likely as not that, growing up in that dysfunctional household, Caylee would have patterned her behaviour after her "role models."

Amy

12-21-2008, 10:24 AM

I just heard within the last couple of days....don't even ask me how or why...that an abortion is between $600-800.
I would imagine that Casey either didn't have those bucks or she was one of those who thought if she didn't think about it (the baby) it would just go away. When confronted, she may have even convinced herself that she wasn't pregnant. What was it she said? I'd have to have had sex to be pregnant.
We have to remember Casey is not normal in her thinking. I can see her being one of those 'girls' that if she hadn't been confronted by Cindy, she may have had that baby and done what some of the 'girls' in the news not very long ago....dumped her in a dumpster or killed her at birth. I know, sickening. Yet, then we again come back to what Cindy's involvment and will was at the time.
My dd was not even living with me at the time but, I knew she was pregnant practically from the first. She didn't deny it, yet if she had I would have been in her face until she admitted it.
Why did it take Cindy and George 7 months and at her brothers wedding and others questioning to recognize Casey's pregnancy?
As you say Until, so many questions, so few answers.

I tho't it was Cindy who commented to her brother that Casey would have had to have had sex to be pregnant? Well, either way, it was a pretty stupid remark.

Also, Rick had said that Casey had hid the pregnancy and was planning on giving the baby up for adoption, which does seem to be confirmed by KioMarie's statement (and did other say, also?) that Casey was going to let KioMarie adopt the baby?

And, I remember early on Jesse had suggested abortion, but Casey refused. Then last night on whatever program I was watching, his statement was that he had suggested adoption and she said, she wasn't going to carry this baby for 9 months just to give her up.

Of course, w/Casey, she probably made whatever statement that fit her fancy @ the time. Even if she did tell Jesse she wouldn't give the baby up, I'm betting she did tell KioMarie that she would let her adopt the baby, and, who knows she might have had Cindy not become involved. Yet, remember she was having Amy plan on moving into the A house, led her on w/that--and it wasn't true @ all that she was going to have that house. She may have been leading KioMarie along like that.