Dec 15th-21st

[GentleBreeze]

Because I watched some guys shoot a dear with a chipmunk gun from 12, 10 and 5 ft away and it didn't even come close to the kind of damage these men had.

Shot a deer????????????? My word:ohmy: who does this as a pastime.

I certainly hope the deer had been mercifully killed before the fun started.

Oh, did y'all do an autopsy on the deer? The entrance wounds are very small with a .22 but people die all the time from the wounds sustained by being shot with a .22. It can be a method of choice for some professional killers and a .22 rifle has a higher velocity than a .22 handgun.

If the deer was already dead before your friends filled it with lead then I highly doubt that the true extent of the wounds inflicted by them would be known.

imoo

[Justice_Dawg]

Shot a deer????????????? My word:ohmy: who does this as a pastime.

I certainly hope the deer had been mercifully killed before the fun started.

Oh, did y'all do an autopsy on the deer? The entrance wounds are very small with a .22 but people die all the time from the wounds sustained by being shot with a .22. It can be a method of choice for some professional killers and a .22 rifle has a higher velocity than a .22 handgun.

If the deer was already dead before your friends filled it with lead then I highly doubt that the true extent of the wounds inflicted by them would be known.

imoo


Recons did it. Maybe someday they will be stationed by you.

MOO

[wolfi_2]

Thanks for the replies. I remember now, it was prairie dogs, I don't know why I thought I read pheasant. :confused: Anyway, a 22 wouldn't be the gun of choice for praire dogs or any type of small animal. Even with a adult as the target, a shooter would have to know where to shoot in order to kill and it would be a moving target. I still have trouble believing an 8 year old is capable of this, especially reloading after each shot. The kid would have to be thinking, ok, shoot in the head, reload, shoot in the head, reload, shoot in the chest, reload, shoot in the chest, reload and on and on. It is possible, but I will continue to wait on the evidence. It seems to me if LE wanted everyone to fully accept the charges in this case, some damaging evidence would be presented. Yet, there hasn't been much released at all. If they are going to smear this child before the media, the least they could do is make sure, we all know the evidence. Smearing this child before the world, acceptable. Releasing info that proves they are sure this child commited this crime, oh, they can't do that, now they are protecting the child? What a bunch of BS. They should have kept their mouths shut completely, if they were truly concerned for this child. Instead, they lead everyone to believe he is a monster and people are lapping it up without even knowing the evidence. :mad:
Is there any chance we will ever see any evidence in this case?

another question, where did he store all the bullet´s? so far I understand, the gun he should used, had no magazine. so it´s not only: shoot in the head, reload, shoot in the head, reload……., it´s shoot in the head, get the next bullet, reload, shoot, get the next bullet, reload, shoot, get the next bullet, reload, shoot…….

[suzanne]

Well,We need to know what provoked this little boy to do this if he did.What we do know is that the LE pretty much screwed everything up here.It was not handled very well at all.From I understand all the information is still even not back yet.

[PensiveOne]

I really didn't expect any of these shots to be a close range in forensic terms. (2-2.5 feet or less) A .22 rifle has a long barrel unlike a .22 handgun. One wouldn't stand too close to the victims and give them a chance to lunge for the barrel that would be extended toward them.

imoo

Some people were suggesting...and I will have to check on who...that he had stood over the body of Tim and shot into his head "at close range", through the screen door, etc...3 times. Well it's not true. As you said 2-2.5 feet PLUS the length of the barrel, puts him at least 5 feet away and he is only about 4 feet tall, if that. Also, I doubt an 8 year old in the middle of murder would have the where with all to think about somebody grabbing or lunging for the barrel. I mean for God's sake you make him sound like he was an experienced hit man.:cursing:

[muska]

Some people were suggesting...and I will have to check on who...that he had stood over the body of Tim and shot into his head "at close range", through the screen door, etc...3 times. Well it's not true. As you said 2-2.5 feet PLUS the length of the barrel, puts him at least 5 feet away and he is only about 4 feet tall, if that. Also, I doubt an 8 year old in the middle of murder would have the where with all to think about somebody grabbing or lunging for the barrel. I mean for God's sake you make him sound like he was an experienced hit man.:cursing:

As I read it, the article says there was no evidence of close range shots for 3 of 4 shots to VR and 5 of 6 to TR. That implies, to me, that each man was shot once at close range.

Also, the autopsy report only says there was a round defect on the front of VRs hardhat. The medical examiner from another county only speculates that this means that VR was shot from in front. The actual autopsy results from the article do not say if VR was shot from the front, at least I don't think they do.

[GentleBreeze]

Some people were suggesting...and I will have to check on who...that he had stood over the body of Tim and shot into his head "at close range", through the screen door, etc...3 times. Well it's not true. As you said 2-2.5 feet PLUS the length of the barrel, puts him at least 5 feet away and he is only about 4 feet tall, if that. Also, I doubt an 8 year old in the middle of murder would have the where with all to think about somebody grabbing or lunging for the barrel. I mean for God's sake you make him sound like he was an experienced hit man.:cursing:

Who said he shot through the screen door? If he shot through the screen door it would hit the door first and leave bullet holes from the inside to the outside. Imo he did not shoot with the screen door shut. . He may have called to Tim with the screen door still shut.

I said I believe that the one shot going into the screen door from the outside to the inside door frame was when he made a bad shot. Didn't the ME say that one of the shots grazed Tims head? If so the bullet would continue to travel until it hit an obstruction. If the metal door screen was close to Tim's head I find it extremely likely that once it grazed his head it hit the metal door.

I don't have a clue what you mean about his height? What does height that have to do with a long barrel and keeping away from the victim?

How do you know he didn't mind being right up on the victims. I think he did it this way because he knew he had to do a surprise shoot where the two adult victims would have no time to react.

I don't think he is an experienced hit man. A hitman doesn't worry about doing shots behind a victims back or where they cant see them because they are going to kill the victim anyway. If he was a professional hitman he would have selected a higher caliber weapon and just pulled the weapon on them.....made them lay down and shot them in the head and been done with it.

Doesn't take a lot of skill to shoot two unsuspecting men that had no weapons in their hands to defend themselves.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

another question, where did he store all the bullet´s? so far I understand, the gun he should used, had no magazine. so it´s not only: shoot in the head, reload, shoot in the head, reload……., it´s shoot in the head, get the next bullet, reload, shoot, get the next bullet, reload, shoot, get the next bullet, reload, shoot…….

IIRC, LE found an open box of bullets close to the stairway on a table.

Also, iirc, there was still a live bullet in the .22 rifle when found.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Recons did it. Maybe someday they will be stationed by you.

MOO

I hope not.

imoo

[FurthurBB]

All I know children are very fast learners at this age and even competition shoot at this age, which also can be timed shoots on the amounts and bullseyes made within a short length of time. They are very capable of shooting, fast moving game targets when younger. Kids at 8 years old are even capable of bringing down a large deer.

I certainly wasn't above average and I was smaller than this boy when I first started shooting. I was fast and my aim was very good from the very beginning.

imoo

I am not saying that you could not, but, I also do not want people believing things that are inaccurate. That does not help. IMO

[Justice_Dawg]

I hope not.

imoo

Why because THEY ARE "the Sound of Freedom" ?

What do you do for the USMC?

[PensiveOne]

Who said he shot through the screen door? If he shot through the screen door it would hit the door first and leave bullet holes from the inside to the outside. Imo he did not shoot with the screen door shut. . He may have called to Tim with the screen door still shut.

I said I believe that the one shot going into the screen door from the outside to the inside door frame was when he made a bad shot. Didn't the ME say that one of the shots grazed Tims head? If so the bullet would continue to travel until it hit an obstruction. If the metal door screen was close to Tim's head I find it extremely likely that once it grazed his head it hit the metal door.

I don't have a clue what you mean about his height? What does height that have to do with a long barrel and keeping away from the victim?

How do you know he didn't mind being right up on the victims. I think he did it this way because he knew he had to do a surprise shoot where the two adult victims would have no time to react.

I don't think he is an experienced hit man. A hitman doesn't worry about doing shots behind a victims back or where they cant see them because they are going to kill the victim anyway. If he was a professional hitman he would have selected a higher caliber weapon and just pulled the weapon on them.....made them lay down and shot them in the head and been done with it.

Doesn't take a lot of skill to shoot two unsuspecting men that had no weapons in their hands to defend themselves.

imoo

From your post #301 ...so you did think the shots were close up at some point in time.


"We do know at least one shot each was close up as brain matter was seen. He may have some blowback but when one uses a longer barreled gun they are further from their victim than if they had used a handgun.

But they have them and I am sure they are having them tested.

imoo"

[Justice_Dawg]

As I read it, the article says there was no evidence of close range shots for 3 of 4 shots to VR and 5 of 6 to TR. That implies, to me, that each man was shot once at close range.

Also, the autopsy report only says there was a round defect on the front of VRs hardhat. The medical examiner from another county only speculates that this means that VR was shot from in front. The actual autopsy results from the article do not say if VR was shot from the front, at least I don't think they do.

The autopsy concludes there was no evidence the shots were fired at close range.

Timothy Romans was hit six times ...Three times in the head, three times in the chest.

The report also finds no evidence Roman's wounds were made at close range.

http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=9558167

[PensiveOne]

As I read it, the article says there was no evidence of close range shots for 3 of 4 shots to VR and 5 of 6 to TR. That implies, to me, that each man was shot once at close range.

Also, the autopsy report only says there was a round defect on the front of VRs hardhat. The medical examiner from another county only speculates that this means that VR was shot from in front. The actual autopsy results from the article do not say if VR was shot from the front, at least I don't think they do.

If you go the link I provided earlier there is a video on that page. They said there were no close range shots. But this is coming from the media, so who knows...I haven't seen the autopsy report myself.

[PensiveOne]

IIRC, LE found an open box of bullets close to the stairway on a table.

Also, iirc, there was still a live bullet in the .22 rifle when found.

imoo

It looks like an empty shell in the gun if you look at the picture.
http://www.azfamily.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=13142&nextimage=2

[GentleBreeze]

I am not saying that you could not, but, I also do not want people believing things that are inaccurate. That does not help. IMO

How is it inaccurate? Millions of children are taught to shoot a weapon at a very early age. They are even very young children who competition shoot and are excellent shooters.

I was a very small child at 7, much smaller than this boy. It is doable and if you talk with anyone who hunted at this age they will tell you the same so I don't see how it is inaccurate. It is done countless of times.

To me to say that children just cant be a good shooter at this age is inaccurate information imo.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

It looks like an empty shell in the gun if you look at the picture.
http://www.azfamily.com/perl/common/slideshow/sspop.pl?recid=13142&nextimage=2

No, it is a live bullet. Blow the photo up with your computer and you will see the deep gray lead is stil there. That is what makes it a live bullet.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Pima County Pathologist Cynthia Porterfield wrote “Examination of the entrance wound reveals no evidence of close range firing” for three of Romero’s gunshot wounds and five of Roman’s gunshot wounds.

From the ABC article.

[PensiveOne]

No, it is a live bullet. Blow the photo up with your computer and you will see the deep gray lead is stil there. That is what makes it a live bullet.

imoo

I brought it up in photoshop CS2...I am a photographer...I can't see it, but it is really grainy. It is just a blur. I know what makes a live bullet, btw. JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

From your post #301 ...so you did think the shots were close up at some point in time.


"We do know at least one shot each was close up as brain matter was seen. He may have some blowback but when one uses a longer barreled gun they are further from their victim than if they had used a handgun.

But they have them and I am sure they are having them tested.

imoo"

Well from the statement of the ME it seems that is right. One of the four shots was fired up close to VR and one of the six shots was fired up close on TR.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

I brought it up in photoshop CS2...I am a photographer...I can't see it, but it is really grainy. It is just a blur. I know what makes a live bullet, btw. JMO.

I believe it was also mentioned in the probable cause hearing so you may find it mentioned there also.

I am sorry, didnt mean to offend but some posters know nothing about guns or bullets. I was just trying to be helpful.

imoo

[GentleBreeze]

Why because THEY ARE "the Sound of Freedom" ?

What do you do for the USMC?

I know plenty of fine Marines. Don't know one that hangs deer up to take pot shots at them for a pastime.

imo

[Justice_Dawg]

I know plenty of fine Marines. Don't know one that hangs deer up to take pot shots at them for a pastime.

imo

Then you must be in the clerical division. :w00t:


ROFLMAO

[bkwits]

I am trying to get my mind around this. First with Vincent. Does anyone think he was shot from the top of the stairs first, then other shots from the stairs below him. No that doesn't really make sense does it?

So were all of the shots from stairs below him?

Or, did the shooter take shots from behind/below then go over around over his prone body to the top of the stairs and shoot him in the head?

[bookie]

I have been reading a forum where gun owners have been debating how deadly a 22LR and other 22s are. Two things of interest:
1) One guy who claimed to have a "shady" past and crazy friends said that a lot of professional assasins/hitmen like to use the 22 for head shots because the bullet will "just bounce around inside the brain and kill the person." He said the 22 lacks the velocity to exit the head.

Obviously there will be exceptions but the posters all seemed to agree that the 22 does a lot of its harm because it doesn't exit the body as easily as other bullets.

2) Someone said the 17HMR is much more deadly than the 22 due to its greater speed and ballistic tip.

Hope I understood well enough to make sense.


Your first paragraph is true. That's how April Barber died. She was shot in the cheek below 1 eye and died after the bullet bounced around and entered her brain.

[bkwits]

Your first paragraph is true. That's how April Barber died. She was shot in the cheek below 1 eye and died after the bullet bounced around and entered her brain.

Then would a .22 account for the massive loss of blood and brain matter sprayed all over from Vincent's head shot?

[Justice_Dawg]

I am trying to get my mind around this. First with Vincent. Does anyone think he was shot from the top of the stairs first, then other shots from the stairs below him. No that doesn't really make sense does it?

So were all of the shots from stairs below him?

Or, did the shooter take shots from behind/below then go over around over his prone body to the top of the stairs and shoot him in the head?
It seems to me that VR turned to look down the stairs. I get that from watching the video of the autopsy.

MOO

[Justice_Dawg]

The Boys Voice on My Space.

Small Child's HOPE and VOICE

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=435515258

[bkwits]

It seems to me that VR turned to look down the stairs. I get that from watching the video of the autopsy.

MOO

Didn't the one ME say that he was shot from the front (that the shooter was in front of him)

[Justice_Dawg]

Didn't the one ME say that he was shot from the front (that the shooter was in front of him)
One ME said that.

Did you see the video?

[bkwits]

One ME said that.

Did you see the video?


Yes, I only heard part of what was said b/c of my bad hearing. :mad:

[Justice_Dawg]

I get the feeling that SO much will be revealed on Monday.
The bullets have been out of these bodies for almost 7 weeks. The autopsy reports are complete.

The labs are not that backed up. It takes 2 minutes to match a bullet fired from a specific gun. Unless... they don't have a gun to match.

I think LE has problems with their theory. Big problems.

JMHO

[Justice_Dawg]

Yes, I only heard part of what was said b/c of my bad hearing. :mad:

Just look at the shots to each man. They almost match.

[Justice_Dawg]

The Boys Voice on My Space.

Small Child's HOPE and VOICE

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=435515258His mom (Eryn) posted on his site. That is awesome. :thumbsup:

Goodnight, I am beat.

[bkwits]

I get the feeling that SO much will be revealed on Monday.
The bullets have been out of these bodies for almost 7 weeks. The autopsy reports are complete.

The labs are not that backed up. It takes 2 minutes to match a bullet fired from a specific gun. Unless... they don't have a gun to match.

I think LE has problems with their theory. Big problems.

JMHO

It seems that most of their case hinges on Tanya Romans's saying the boy was inside calling to Tim. I think from that moment the child became their chief suspect.

I'll never believe LE didn't suspect when the two officers interrogated him and got him to "confess".
I read a post on the ABA website where the child guidance specialist said that she heard 30 minutes of the tape and it was a lot more revealing than the 12 minutes typically shown.

This Chief came out like the gestapo...going to charge this small child as an adult. So now it is big-time CYA. It seems to me that LE and the DA's office are praying for some kind of plea deal to get them out of this emabarrassing, humiliating spot. Whether the child fired the shots or not, it makes AZ look like a third world country.

Leading him into the courtroom with his hands and feet in chains. They had to wrap the waist chain around him three times. What did they think? He was going to overpower them with his bare hands ...all 50 lbs of him.

I am incensed with this case, because of the way LE has handles it. I don't know if the child was the shooter, but it is looking less and less that way. But the reason I was so furious, along with many others, is that they denies the child any protection under our laws and our constitution. :cursing:

Sorry for the rant.

[muska]

The Boys Voice on My Space.

Small Child's HOPE and VOICE

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=435515258

What a wonderful page! I can't wait to spend some time reading it tomorrow. I haven't had time to look much but I saw that there are names and addresses that will be very helpful. Thanks for putting the link here!!

[wolfi_2]

His mom (Eryn) posted on his site. That is awesome. :thumbsup:

Goodnight, I am beat.

Good morning
and thanks for the link :thumbup:

[PensiveOne]

The Boys Voice on My Space.

Small Child's HOPE and VOICE

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=435515258

Very nice...thank you for the link.:smile:

[PensiveOne]

ITA! They were able to get a DNA match for Caylee Anthony in about a week.Why does this child have to wait until the end of January before they can get anything done?

[GentleBreeze]

Then you must be in the clerical division. :w00t:


ROFLMAO

:confused: Huh? What does stringing deer up in a tree and taking pot shots at it, have to do with the Sound of Freedom????:__________________
"Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, N.C. ?

The sound of freedom comes from the many Marine helicopters that are in the air,training daily for war and to protect our country at all times to insure our freedom.

[Justice_Dawg]

What a wonderful page! I can't wait to spend some time reading it tomorrow. I haven't had time to look much but I saw that there are names and addresses that will be very helpful. Thanks for putting the link here!!

No Problem. I put it on the links page also. We have all been invited to join as friends. :thumbsup:

Did you see what Eryn said on there? "We are all praying for my lil man."

--------Yes, we are!!----------!

[Justice_Dawg]

Good morning
and thanks for the link :thumbup:

You are welcome.

One thing that jumped out at me is a post that says
There is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE Linking the boy to the crime.

------------
I had a feeling. :cursing:

[GentleBreeze]

ITA! They were able to get a DNA match for Caylee Anthony in about a week.Why does this child have to wait until the end of January before they can get anything done?

Because much more in depth forensics are done when determining ballistics and other forensic evidence than running a DNA profile.

While a DNA profile can be done rather quickly as in Caylee's case because they had a known sample of her DNA to compare it to, other testing will take some time...like the toxicology report. That will come back probably in about 4-5 weeks tops or even later in Caylee's case as well as any other evidence now uncovered by the on going investigation of LE.

It took almost 2 months to even get the DNA profile match on the perpetrator that murdered Sarah Walker, the real estate agent, in Texas.

The ME in this case did not release the autopsy findings until they got the toxicology report back.

Also the DA had to file a motion to even get comparable samples from the boy and that did not happen right away.

And imo, the labs are backed up. We read about this in every case here that has forensics or ballistic testing in it. With the economy and cutbacks on staff they are even further backed up. Like the DA said in one of the hearings the AZ. State labs does thousands of cases yearly from all across the State.

Judge Roca, himself, knows how frustrating it can be trying to get the results back from the State labs. He commented on that, himself.

imo

[Justice_Dawg]

ITA! They were able to get a DNA match for Caylee Anthony in about a week.Why does this child have to wait until the end of January before they can get anything done?

Because nothing is matching ?
It never takes this long, no matter what some deadly venomous people try to say.

moo

[FurthurBB]

How is it inaccurate? Millions of children are taught to shoot a weapon at a very early age. They are even very young children who competition shoot and are excellent shooters.

I was a very small child at 7, much smaller than this boy. It is doable and if you talk with anyone who hunted at this age they will tell you the same so I don't see how it is inaccurate. It is done countless of times.

To me to say that children just cant be a good shooter at this age is inaccurate information imo.

imoo


Wow! You can really jump to your own conclusions. We were talking about reflexes, right? Do you remember that conversation at all? I said nothing whatsoever about a good shooter or a bad shooter. Now, calm down and try not to jump to conclusions over nothing. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Because nothing is matching ?
It never takes this long, no matter what some deadly venomous people try to say.

moo

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/cpffcl02pr.htm

FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL CRIME LAB BACKLOG REACHED 500,000 IN 2002

[bkwits]

Just look at the shots to each man. They almost match.


Yes, you are right and I did notice that this AM when I went back to look.

Brrrrrr....it is minus 10 degrees here (-35 wind chill) and we are expecting a blizzard. So I will be posting some today.

[bkwits]

How is it inaccurate? Millions of children are taught to shoot a weapon at a very early age. They are even very young children who competition shoot and are excellent shooters.

I was a very small child at 7, much smaller than this boy. It is doable and if you talk with anyone who hunted at this age they will tell you the same so I don't see how it is inaccurate. It is done countless of times.

To me to say that children just cant be a good shooter at this age is inaccurate information imo.

imoo So you were an excellent shot at 7 years old. With all due respect, you both constantly defend teaching children to shoot, having readily available guns and ammo in the home, saying that children learn early to respect guns and don't disobey the parents warning not to play with them.

That being said, it seems to refute those deeply held beliefs when you so adamantly claim that this child shot his dad (whom he loved, says many) and the other man with seemingly no motive.

Now if someone other than than this little child shot them, it would more or less bolster your assertions that "guns don't kill people"...and all that gobbledegook. IMO

[Justice_Dawg]

Yes, you are right and I did notice that this AM when I went back to look.

Brrrrrr....it is minus 10 degrees here (-35 wind chill) and we are expecting a blizzard. So I will be posting some today.

It's 17 here. I will be here listening to my Miami Dolphins on NFL field pass. (We only get the Bengles LOL, and Browns LOL on TV here.
My SO just got me the new orange #10 Pennington shirt for my birthday. WooHoo!
--------
When everyone jumped to the conclusion that the boy "did it", ie Tanya's comment, the so called "confession" Liz and Leroy saying he "was capable" ect, NOBODY had any idea that 10 shots were fired within a 6 minute timeframe.

TR call ended at 5:54pm. The boy was at his friends saying call 911 by 5:02, the father of the friend called 911 at 5:06pm.

LOL, let LE figure that one out.

The white car taking off sheds a whole new light on things. That car is lonnnnnnggggggg gone now.

MOO

[GentleBreeze]

So you were an excellent shot at 7 years old. With all due respect, you both constantly defend teaching children to shoot, having readily available guns and ammo in the home, saying that children learn early to respect guns and don't disobey the parents warning not to play with them.

That being said, it seems to refute those deeply held beliefs when you so adamantly claim that this child shot his dad (whom he loved, says many) and the other man with seemingly no motive.

Now if someone other than than this little child shot them, it would more or less bolster your assertions that "guns don't kill people"...and all that gobbledegook. IMO

Why does it? This case is extremely rare but there are always exceptions, as in this one. By it being so rare it does show that the overwhelming vast majority of children who are taught to hunt, do not do as this boy is accused of doing but respect the guns and their parents strict guidelines they lay down about gun safety.

And no, a gun doesn't kill. Sitting there untouched by a human being means it will only gather dust. It is when a human being picks the weapon up and engages it toward another human being, pulling the trigger 10 times in this particular case, is when it becomes a killer against human beings. The intended purpose for a .22 rifle is to be used to kill small game, varmints, or to shoot at a bullseye target.

He told the CPS caseworker why he did it.

imoo

[Justice_Dawg]

Why does it? This case is extremely rare but there are always exceptions, as in this one. By it being so rare it does show that the overwhelming vast majority of children who are taught to hunt, do not do as this boy is accused of doing but respect the guns and their parents strict guidelines they lay down about gun safety.

And no, a gun doesn't kill. Sitting there untouched by a human being means it will only gather dust. It is when a human being picks the weapon up and engages it toward another human being, pulling the trigger 10 times in this particular case, is when it becomes a killer against human beings. The intended purpose for a .22 rifle is to be used to kill small game, varmints, or to shoot at a bullseye target.He told the CPS caseworker why he did it.

imoo

Link please?

[bkwits]

Snipped

\

And no, a gun doesn't kill. Sitting there untouched by a human being means it will only gather dust. It is when a human being picks the weapon up and engages it toward another human being, pulling the trigger 10 times in this particular case, is when it becomes a killer against human beings. The intended purpose for a .22 rifle is to be used to kill small game, varmints, or to shoot at a bullseye target.

He told the CPS caseworker why he did it.

imoo

But you could say the same thing about any dangerous item or substance..

Poison doesn't kill people...it just sits there in a bottle or whatever

bombs don't kill people...they just sit there

Fire doesn't kill people unless People misuse it

The list could go on and on

But we carefully control all of those things All have a legitimate purpose. However, we most especially keep children away from those things.

Vincent's remark to his priest is chilling, "I don't want my son to be afraid of guns." A little fear would be healthy.

If it turns out that this child killed these two men, all of your protestations go up in smoke. IMO

[LindaNJ1216]

Snipped



But you could say the same thing about any dangerous item or substance..

Poison doesn't kill people...it just sits there in a bottle or whatever

bombs don't kill people...they just sit there

Fire doesn't kill people unless People misuse it

The list could go on and on

But we carefully control all of those things All have a legitimate purpose. However, we most especially keep children away from those things.

Vincent's remark to his priest is chilling, "I don't want my son to be afraid of guns." A little fear would be healthy.

If it turns out that this child killed these two men, all of your protestations go up in smoke. IMO


Poisons...I believe most every one's house is full of them. They aren't locked away from 8 year olds.

Fire...I would hope by the time your son is 8 years old he could build a campfire. I would also hope if your child ever found himself lost in the woods he could at least build a fire for signaling and warmth.


Sorry, but your point is totally lost on me. We aren't talking about protecting a toddler. The kid is 8 and if he killed them, he knew exactly what he was doing.

[LindaNJ1216]

It's 17 here. I will be here listening to my Miami Dolphins on NFL field pass. (We only get the Bangles LOL, and Browns LOL on TV here.
My SO just got me the new orange #10 Pennington shirt for my birthday. WooHoo!
--------
When everyone jumped to the conclusion that the boy "did it", is Tanya's comment, the so called "confession" Liz and Leroy saying he "was capable" ect, NOBODY had any idea that 10 shots were fired within a 6 minute time frame.

TR call ended at 5:54pm. The boy was at his friends saying call 911 by 5:02, the father of the friend called 911 at 5:06pm.

LOL, let LE figure that one out.

The white car taking off sheds a whole new light on things. That car is lonnnnnnggggggg gone now.

MOO


Just curious, were you one of those folks that believed OJ simpson could not have acted alone?

SIX minutes is an incredibly long time to get off 10 shots.

[GentleBreeze]

Link please?

http://www.chuckhawks.com/first_rifle.htm

Youth rifles
So let's consider that first .22 rifle. If you are very young, or quite petite, you may need a "youth rifle." These are typically lightweight rifles with stocks of reduced length that are comfortable for small people to hold and shoot. These are usually single shot bolt action types, because this is generally considered to be the safest rifle in inexperienced hands, and the most suitable for young beginners. Such rifles are suitable for informal target shooting and plinking, and small game hunting at short to medium range. If equipped with a decent telescopic sight, they can take small game as far as most other .22 rifles.

[GentleBreeze]

Snipped



But you could say the same thing about any dangerous item or substance..

Poison doesn't kill people...it just sits there in a bottle or whatever

bombs don't kill people...they just sit there

Fire doesn't kill people unless People misuse it

The list could go on and on

But we carefully control all of those things All have a legitimate purpose. However, we most especially keep children away from those things.

Vincent's remark to his priest is chilling, "I don't want my son to be afraid of guns." A little fear would be healthy.

If it turns out that this child killed these two men, all of your protestations go up in smoke. IMO

Your list makes no sense to me.

Of course all things can be used as a murder weapon if the perpetrator has the mindset to make them one. Do we lock up our kitchen knives or baseball bats that we bought our children to protect ourselves from being murdered by our own children?

Why is that "chilling"? Education is certainly the answer.......... not shying away and being afraid and not knowing how to properly use something.

More children die from fire, vehicle accidents, drownings, bicycle accidents. Do we lock up their bicycles, don't put in pools and don't drive our vehicles with children in it or move out of our houses?

imoo

[muska]

There have been several posts suggesting it's safe to leave guns around the house and that children rarely disobey directions to leave guns alone. I just googled "child accidental shooting gun" and the next second there were four listings of recent accidental shootings by children. Are these kids all so unusual? And just think how many instances I could find if I had a little more time right now.
1)Ohio - Child shot by brother in Cleveland. I don't remember ages but both in elementary school. Found gun in grandmother's car. Grandmother charged with failure to secure a weapon. 12/08
2) Florida - 12 year old fatally shoots friend. Father charged with culpable negligence and could be sentenced to 5 years in prison. 12/08
3) Alabama - 14 year old shoots 15 year old. Shoots friend while playing with gun. Considered accidental.12/12/08
4) Louisiana12 year old uncle kill 4 year old nephew accidentally while holding deer rifle inside the house/thought it was unloaded. 12/4/08

[bkwits]

Poisons...I believe most every one's house is full of them. They aren't locked away from 8 year olds.

Fire...I would hope by the time your son is 8 years old he could build a campfire. I would also hope if your child ever found himself lost in the woods he could at least build a fire for signaling and warmth.


Sorry, but your point is totally lost on me. We aren't talking about protecting a toddler. The kid is 8 and if he killed them, he knew exactly what he was doing.

You missed the point.

[Justice_Dawg]

You missed the point.

She sure did. :cool:

[Justice_Dawg]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/first_rifle.htm

Youth rifles
So let's consider that first .22 rifle. If you are very young, or quite petite, you may need a "youth rifle." These are typically lightweight rifles with stocks of reduced length that are comfortable for small people to hold and shoot. These are usually single shot bolt action types, because this is generally considered to be the safest rifle in inexperienced hands, and the most suitable for young beginners. Such rifles are suitable for informal target shooting and plinking, and small game hunting at short to medium range. If equipped with a decent telescopic sight, they can take small game as far as most other .22 rifles.

Who said the chipmunk was the murder weapon? What did I miss?

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?ID=9&section=products

[bkwits]

Your list makes no sense to me.

Of course all things can be used as a murder weapon if the perpetrator has the mindset to make them one. Do we lock up our kitchen knives or baseball bats that we bought our children to protect ourselves from being murdered by our own children?

Why is that "chilling"? Education is certainly the answer.......... not shying away and being afraid and not knowing how to properly use something.

More children die from fire, vehicle accidents, drownings, bicycle accidents. Do we lock up their bicycles, don't put in pools and don't drive our vehicles with children in it or move out of our houses?

imoo

You say my post made no sense to you, but you seem to have gotten the point.

Again, with the knives and baseball bats. They are not considered "deadly weapons'"

IMO, there should be instilled some "fear" of firearms, as well as of sharp knives, fire, in youngsters minds.

[Crispy]

Poisons...I believe most every one's house is full of them. They aren't locked away from 8 year olds.

Fire...I would hope by the time your son is 8 years old he could build a campfire. I would also hope if your child ever found himself lost in the woods he could at least build a fire for signaling and warmth.


Sorry, but your point is totally lost on me. We aren't talking about protecting a toddler. The kid is 8 and if he killed them, he knew exactly what he was doing.

I guess I'm out of the norm, because all my harmful chemicals are put up where my children(11, 8,8, and 5) can't get them.

As far as building a fire, I don't leave lighters laying around where they can start a fire in the living room. jmo

[LindaNJ1216]

I guess I'm out of the norm, because all my harmful chemicals are put up where my children(11, 8,8, and 5) can't get them.

As far as building a fire, I don't leave lighters laying around where they can start a fire in the living room. jmo

Wow...you must lock up everything! Hope you have a huge garage.:rolleyes: I've found it much easier to teach mine.

I can leave matches and a lighter laying around without fear of my kid burning down the house. He was educated and is very familiar with the dangers of fire.

[muska]

From the NRA -

Store guns so they are inaccessible to children. Gun shops sell....safes, cases and other security devices. While specific security measures may vary, a parent must, in every case, assess the exposure of the firearm and absolutely ensure that it is anaccessible to children.

Even the NRA believes guns should be locked away from kids....in EVERY case!

[muska]

meant to say "inaccessible to children" in my post above - sorry

[GentleBreeze]

Who said the chipmunk was the murder weapon? What did I miss?

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?ID=9&section=products

Who said it was a Mossberg 720? I must have missed them saying that.

Here is what the officer said the weapon they think was used is called............ "Chipmunk or Cricket"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

[Justice_Dawg]

Who said it was a Mossberg 720? I must have missed them saying that.

Here is what the officer said the weapon they think was used is called............ "Chipmunk or Cricket"

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Neckel.pdf

Key words "they think" They are cops, not Crime lab.

A Chipmunk gun did not blow brains out!

[GentleBreeze]

Key words "they think" They are cops, not Crime lab.

A Chipmunk gun did not blow brains out!

Yes, it can imo if it is fired at very close range like it was done once to Romero's head and once to Romans head.

It doesnt blow their brains out but it does spray brain matter out.

imoo

[bkwits]

snipped

It doesnt blow their brains out but it does spray brain matter out.

imoo

Generally speaking is there a difference?

[GentleBreeze]

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNBLST.html

Bullets fired from a rifle will have more energy than similar bullets fired from a handgun. More powder can also be used in rifle cartridges because the bullet chambers can be designed to withstand greater pressures (70,000 psi vs. 40,000 psi for handgun chamber). It is difficult in practice to measure the forces within a gun barrel, but the one easily measured parameter is the velocity with which the bullet exits the barrel (muzzle velocity) and this is what will be used in examples below.

he distance of the target from the muzzle plays a large role in wounding capacity, for most bullets fired from handguns have lost significant kinetic energy (KE) at 100 yards

[GentleBreeze]

Generally speaking is there a difference?

Well there is a difference to me. Fluid is released once the skull is pierced and tiny sprays of brain matter can erupt out of the entrance wound or any exit wounds. But it doesnt blow the entire brain out unless it is a close up wound from a 12 guage shotgun or real high powered weapon.

JMO though.

[bkwits]

Snipped


He told the CPS caseworker why he did it.

imoo

What EXACTLY did he say his reason was for killing his dad?

What EXACTLY did he say his reason was for killing Tim?

Do you have a quote?

[wolfi_2]

Beside the actual shooting and gun discussion,
the more I read about this case, the more I feeling sick, it’s absolutely sick to lock an 8, now near 9 year old boy in jail, it’s sick that he can’t speak with his mom free, because she can be a witness against him, it’s sick, that the boy doesn’t get help now (same reason) . It’s sick, no absolutely sick that there are people who like to prosecute him as adult, that there are people who like to see him locked away for a few years or his whole live. And yes the whole case is sick. I really don’t know for sure if he is guilty or not, but I don’t see any reason for shooting his dad and Tim, and I thing an 8 year old boy doesn’t kill somebody just for fun.

[Crispy]

Wow...you must lock up everything! Hope you have a huge garage.:rolleyes: I've found it much easier to teach mine.

I can leave matches and a lighter laying around without fear of my kid burning down the house. He was educated and is very familiar with the dangers of fire.

Actually I don't have a garage. You can also roll your eyes at me all you want, doesn't change the fact that I would like to be cautious with my children. I can teach them and make sure that dangerous things are kept away from them. I love my children enough to be extra careful.

To get back on topic...tomorrow is the evaluation and status hearing so hopefully we will know something by the end of the week. :thumbsup:

[GentleBreeze]

What EXACTLY did he say his reason was for killing his dad?

What EXACTLY did he say his reason was for killing Tim?

Do you have a quote?

I just put the link up above what DM told Brewer during her interview about what the boy told the caseworker.

She didn't mention that he told the CPS caseworker anything about Tim.

We will probably have to wait until the caseworker testifies if and when this case goes to trial.

imoo

[bkwits]

I just put the link up above what DM told Brewer during her interview about what the boy told the caseworker.

She didn't mention that he told the CPS caseworker anything about Tim.

We will probably have to wait until the caseworker testifies if and when this case goes to trial.

imoo

My brain must be going soft, who is DM?

So that is what I thought, somebody told somebody who told Brewer that the child said what Exactly?

You've put so many links up that I have no idea which one you are talking about. It doesn't matter because you really have nothing to add. We don't know what the child said or in what context.

You said he didn't say anything about Tim, so apparently there was no reason to shoot Tim.

You said the boy told the reason he shot his father So I ask you again, EXACTLY what was that reason?

[GentleBreeze]

My brain must be going soft, who is DM?

So that is what I thought, somebody told somebody who told Brewer that the child said what Exactly?

You've put so many links up that I have no idea which one you are talking about. It doesn't matter because you really have nothing to add. We don't know what the child said or in what context.

You said he didn't say anything about Tim, so apparently there was no reason to shoot Tim.

You said the boy told the reason he shot his father So I ask you again, EXACTLY what was that reason?

I may have the initials wrong, bkwts, but she is one of the officers that Brewer interviewed and then released it to the media.

No, so far I haven't seen any interview done concerning the caseworker.

You are right we have not seen the full report by the caseworker. She would turn that information over to the Court and the DAs office who would in turn give it to the defense.

The officer said that the caseworker met with him one day after he was incarcerated, iirc and he just blurted out and told her "don't you want to know why I did it?" and then replied "because I had reached my thousand spankings" (paraphrasing)

I was going to pull the link up for you again where it was discussed but since you said there is no need...I will not waste your time nor mine.

Caseworkers are not bound by any defendant privilege, she/he will testify if there is a trial. I also put up a link about that too some time ago showing they are witnesses in a trial.

imoo

[muska]

Beside the actual shooting and gun discussion,
the more I read about this case, the more I feeling sick, it’s absolutely sick to lock an 8, now near 9 year old boy in jail, it’s sick that he can’t speak with his mom free, because she can be a witness against him, it’s sick, that the boy doesn’t get help now (same reason) . It’s sick, no absolutely sick that there are people who like to prosecute him as adult, that there are people who like to see him locked away for a few years or his whole live. And yes the whole case is sick. I really don’t know for sure if he is guilty or not, but I don’t see any reason for shooting his dad and Tim, and I thing an 8 year old boy doesn’t kill somebody just for fun.

I agree! Obama has accepted recommendations as to how to improve the Juvenile Justice system from the Sentencing Project. He worked on legislation to reduce the number of kids in detention in the late 90s. We can only hope there will be some improvement, maybe a little more sanity, over the next several years.

[bkwits]

I may have the initials wrong, bkwts, but she is one of the officers that Brewer interviewed and then released it to the media.

No, so far I haven't seen any interview done concerning the caseworker.

You are right we have not seen the full report by the caseworker. She would turn that information over to the Court and the DAs office who would in turn give it to the defense.

The officer said that the caseworker met with him one day after he was incarcerated, iirc and he just blurted out and told her "don't you want to know why I did it?" and then replied "because I had reached my thousand spankings" (paraphrasing)

I was going to pull the link up for you again where it was discussed but since you said there is no need...I will not waste your time nor mine.

Caseworkers are not bound by any defendant privilege, she/he will testify if there is a trial. I also put up a link about that too some time ago showing they are witnesses in a trial.

imoo

I know there has been talk about the thousand spankings and and him keeping a tally. In fact, as I understand it, they searched for the tally but only found a spelling paper with blood on it and another almost blank paper.

I thought Tiffany spanked him last. Why didn't he kill her, if that is the case?

I'm sorry, but I don't put any faith in what comes out of St. Johns LE.

That kind of thing along with the coached and coerced confession pushes me more in the direction that the child didn't do it.

There are other things that give me pause, to make me think that possibly he did, but not this garbage that LE tries to make into a confession.

I've been around the block too many times for that.

[GentleBreeze]

I know there has been talk about the thousand spankings and and him keeping a tally. In fact, as I understand it, they searched for the tally but only found a spelling paper with blood on it and another almost blank paper.

I thought Tiffany spanked him last. Why didn't he kill her, if that is the case?

I'm sorry, but I don't put any faith in what comes out of St. Johns LE.

That kind of thing along with the coached and coerced confession pushes me more in the direction that the child didn't do it.

There are other things that give me pause, to make me think that possibly he did, but not this garbage that LE tries to make into a confession.

I've been around the block too many times for that.

I haven't heard what they found. I do know that a second search warrant was signed by the Judge but as to what was found, I haven't read it.

Around the block? I am not sure what you mean. I have never had any dealings with law enforcement but the caseworker is not LE anyway.

I don't know why. I think he loves Tiffany. She was the first person he called and when he saw her arrive at the scene he ran to her, hugged her and cried.

Are you talking about the paper that was found close to his dad's body? That was taken the first day. They will take anything that had blood evidence on it.

imoo

[bkwits]

I haven't heard what they found. I do know that a second search warrant was signed by the Judge but as to what was found, I haven't read it.

Around the block? I am not sure what you mean. I have never had any dealings with law enforcement but the caseworker is not LE anyway.

I don't know why. I think he loves Tiffany. She was the first person he called and when he saw her arrive at the scene he ran to her, hugged her and cried.

Are you talking about the paper that was found close to his dad's body? That was taken the first day. They will take anything that had blood evidence on it.

imoo

One of the search warrents was for the journal or list of the spankings (after he spoke of them). They found a spelling paper with blood on it in the boy's room. I didn't know about a paper found by VR's body. I don't know the significence of the blood on the spelling paper.

He certainly may love Tiffany. Many people said he loved his dad as well, even his bio mom.

The block I am talking about going round, is LE spinning what is said, and coercing confessions. I've followed many cases where that has happened.

It the town I used to live in, a young man who was a bible student had a dream about a young woman being murdered. A young woman was murdered several blocks away from him. When LE questioned the neighbors, the young man told them about the dream. They took him to the station. Told him to relate the dream. Turned the tape on after he started. They arrested him, and played the tape to the jury as a confession. He was found guilty. His church collected enough money for an appeal. He was exonerated by DNA.

That's one story of many that has happened in different jurisdictions in Northern Illinois. I'm telling you that "confession" stinks to high heaven. IMO

[Pag Boi]

Wow...you must lock up everything! Hope you have a huge garage.:rolleyes: I've found it much easier to teach mine.

I can leave matches and a lighter laying around without fear of my kid burning down the house. He was educated and is very familiar with the dangers of fire.

Your kids must be perfect. Anything you teach them, they absorb and adhere to the lesson. Rare is the child that doesn't ever test boundaries, disobey an adult's directive or simply follow their curiousity. Isn't a major point of parenting to teach our children that actions have consequences?

Do you let your kids keep their halloween candy in their room but tell them not to eat it? Do they know or care that all that junk is bad for them. Do you leave your 8yo kids home alone because you have taught them all the dangers of being alone in your house :shrug:

Your kid might not intentionally start a fire to burn the house down. A kid could use matches appropriately -to light a canlde or lantern. A fire breaks out due to where he placed the lit item. I guess you could say the matches didn't cause the fire, a human caused the fire. An imperfect human that found using fire alluring and didn't foresee the hidden dangers he'd heard about. JMOO tho.

Why even have laws about purchasing guns if children can simply be taught to respect them? If you leave 8yo's around loaded guns and you leave them at home, you trust your child to use his best 3rd grade judgment. I wouldn't run the risk of doing so myself.

[GentleBreeze]

One of the search warrents was for the journal or list of the spankings (after he spoke of them). They found a spelling paper with blood on it in the boy's room. I didn't know about a paper found by VR's body. I don't know the significance of the blood on the spelling paper.

He certainly may love Tiffany. Many people said he loved his dad as well, even his bio mom.

The block I am talking about going round, is LE spinning what is said, and coercing confessions. I've followed many cases where that has happened.

It the town I used to live in, a young man who was a bible student had a dream about a young woman being murdered. A young woman was murdered several blocks away from him. When LE questioned the neighbors, the young man told them about the dream. They took him to the station. Told him to relate the dream. Turned the tape on after he started. They arrested him, and played the tape to the jury as a confession. He was found guilty. His church collected enough money for an appeal. He was exonerated by DNA.

That's one story of many that has happened in different jurisdictions in Northern Illinois. I'm telling you that "confession" stinks to high heaven. IMO

Do you have a link where it states they found the spelling paper in his room with blood on it the second time they searched? I haven't heard about that and them finding that in his room.

I personally don't even think they will need the confession. The officer that was interviewed by Brewer said they will be able to determine where the shooter was standing each time they fired and the height of the shooter.

Also now that we know two of the shots were done at close range there is a very good possibility that forensics will be found on his clothing, most likely his pants and possibly his shoes. Many times those cant be seen with the naked eye as the mist is so fine but when forensically analyzed it shows a much different story. Also it will be telling as to what type of blood pattern was found on his pants that could be seen. Was it a smudge, smear? Or was it blood spatter from standing so close when the close up shots were fired? It will show if it had no velocity or was placed there due to high velocity.

I have never thought that the confession was the crux of this case. Even if it is suppressed it will not stop the evidence.

The only thing that will stop this case for now is if they deem him age incompetent now and nothing will be known for at least 8 months until this case is revisited and he is assessed once again.

imoo

[muska]

Do you have a link where it states they found the spelling paper in his room with blood on it the second time they searched? I haven't heard about that and them finding that in his room.

I personally don't even think they will need the confession. The officer that was interviewed by Brewer said they will be able to determine where the shooter was standing each time they fired and the height of the shooter.

Also now that we know two of the shots were done at close range there is a very good possibility that forensics will be found on his clothing, most likely his pants and possibly his shoes. Many times those cant be seen with the naked eye as the mist is so fine but when forensically analyzed it shows a much different story. Also it will be telling as to what type of blood pattern was found on his pants that could be seen. Was it a smudge, smear? Or was it blood spatter from standing so close when the close up shots were fired? It will show if it had no velocity or was placed there due to high velocity.

I have never thought that the confession was the crux of this case. Even if it is suppressed it will not stop the evidence.

The only thing that will stop this case for now is if they deem him age incompetent now and nothing will be known for at least 8 months until this case is revisited and he is assessed once again.

imoo

You always seem so pleased and happy to pronounce him guilty....I don't get it.

[patschican]

I completely concur with Gentlebreeze; the evidence will tell the story. Though I agree that the confession is not necessary, I do think the lies are important, and should be admissible as evidence. For example, the boy initially saying that he saw the body of Romans on the steps then went inside to discover his father, which was later proven false by the statement of Romans's wife, who was on the phone with him at the time and heard the boy call Romans into the house...

No one wants to believe that this boy did this, but if the evidence points to it, well, it is what it is.

[Pag Boi]

Your list makes no sense to me.

Of course all things can be used as a murder weapon if the perpetrator has the mindset to make them one. Do we lock up our kitchen knives or baseball bats that we bought our children to protect ourselves from being murdered by our own children?

Why is that "chilling"? Education is certainly the answer.......... not shying away and being afraid and not knowing how to properly use something.

More children die from fire, vehicle accidents, drownings, bicycle accidents. Do we lock up their bicycles, don't put in pools and don't drive our vehicles with children in it or move out of our houses?

imoo


Do you realize we have standards for all situations you list? Lots of children's pj's come with labels like "nonflammable" We have fire alarms and smoke detectors and fire drills and lit exit signs and doors with panic bars. Space heaters and heating pads come with warning labels.

We have infant carseats and child booster seats and air bags and seat belt laws. Warning on our rear view mirrors. Traffic laws and speed limits

We have bike helmets,reflectors, sidewalks, bike paths and "share the road" signs.

We have pools that need self locking gates, 2 vortex drains, rescue devices, posted regulations and warning signs. Lifeguards on duty during our kids swim team practice.

We have increased the safety standards of all you mention in the hopes of reducing accidental deaths. We also have gun locks and safety practices that can help prevent guns from being mishandled. Do you disregard the safety laws/suggestions because your 8yo child is a strong swimmer or bmx racer? Do you let him ride in the front seat even tho it is suggested kids don't ride there until age 12?

VR &TR likely knew about guns being misused since an allegedly stray bullet was in the truck door. Who's gunning who in that town?

Did VR not know his child well enough to know that once he learned to use a gun, he would use it so maliciously? It seems the kid went from fearing guns to being an expert in using and aiming if he did what he is accused of doing. If trued, did got educated alright. Just not properly like you were and you taught kids. JMOO

[Crispy]

I'm going to start a new thread since it's almost a new week.

[Pag Boi]

I completely concur with Gentlebreeze; the evidence will tell the story. Though I agree that the confession is not necessary, I do think the lies are important, and should be admissible as evidence. For example, the boy initially saying that he saw the body of Romans on the steps then went inside to discover his father, which was later proven false by the statement of Romans's wife, who was on the phone with him at the time and heard the boy call Romans into the house...

No one wants to believe that this boy did this, but if the evidence points to it, well, it is what it is.


The boy's statements have not been proven false. Unless there was a trial and I missed it.

Tanya might be lying. Tanya might be misquoted or misunderstood. She might have not have heard correctly or incorrectly claimed the voice was the child's. She might be in CYA mode. Tanya and Tim weren't even living together.

Why wasn't the brain matter apparent on his shirt? Why didn't he get any blood/body matter on his stepmom when he hugged her at the crime scene?

Any adult's confession under the same circumstances would be inadmissable. The grandfather had already rejected LE request for the
2nd interview. They went to the stepmother who has statement issues of her own.

The jail commander and a deputy of one day interviewed the child. They lied to him and told him they had witnesses to his actions. Only then did he change his story. Great example to set for a child. Lie to him. Of course he got that one due to the great example he had at home.He was taught to not fear guns. OK to leave guns lying around the house. You are only to hunt with them. Even if there is a bullet in the truck and one by the front door. Guess that 8yo should know better that his shots might actually hit someone and kill :rolleyes:



LE released a confession tape snippet and a statement that basically claimed the forensic evidence was overwhelming IIRC. Then they got silent. They haven't given the defense any forensic test results. I never heard a statement that one is innocent until proven guilty from LE or the DA. It seems to me that something very wrong, at least on the surface. The rush by the state to convict this boy in the court of public opinion is unnecessary. To say nothing of desire to process him as an adult.

All the above is JMOO.

[FurthurBB]

I completely concur with Gentlebreeze; the evidence will tell the story. Though I agree that the confession is not necessary, I do think the lies are important, and should be admissible as evidence. For example, the boy initially saying that he saw the body of Romans on the steps then went inside to discover his father, which was later proven false by the statement of Romans's wife, who was on the phone with him at the time and heard the boy call Romans into the house...

No one wants to believe that this boy did this, but if the evidence points to it, well, it is what it is.


If the evidence points to the boy than I will definitely believe it, but, right now I do not believe Roman's wife over the boy at all. Even if she did not have a reason to lie she could be mistaken. IMO

[muska]

One of the search warrents was for the journal or list of the spankings (after he spoke of them). They found a spelling paper with blood on it in the boy's room. I didn't know about a paper found by VR's body. I don't know the significence of the blood on the spelling paper.

He certainly may love Tiffany. Many people said he loved his dad as well, even his bio mom.

The block I am talking about going round, is LE spinning what is said, and coercing confessions. I've followed many cases where that has happened.

It the town I used to live in, a young man who was a bible student had a dream about a young woman being murdered. A young woman was murdered several blocks away from him. When LE questioned the neighbors, the young man told them about the dream. They took him to the station. Told him to relate the dream. Turned the tape on after he started. They arrested him, and played the tape to the jury as a confession. He was found guilty. His church collected enough money for an appeal. He was exonerated by DNA.

That's one story of many that has happened in different jurisdictions in Northern Illinois. I'm telling you that "confession" stinks to high heaven. IMO

This case is about a lot more than whether one little boy did this or not. It's about the way we want to treat children in the United States and whether we want 8 year olds tried in the criminal justice system. IMO whether he did it or not, the way he's been treated is wrong.

[Justice_Dawg]

Why was Tiffany out "running around to stores" while she knew her step-son, an 8 yr old boy, was home alone?

Sorry, can't get that one out of my head. :glare:

[Pag Boi]

:confused: Huh? What does stringing deer up in a tree and taking pot shots at it, have to do with the Sound of Freedom????:__________________
"Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, N.C. ?

The sound of freedom comes from the many Marine helicopters that are in the air,training daily for war and to protect our country at all times to insure our freedom.

The noises do not come just from the sound of helicopters. They are marines. They train for many things in Onslow County. The road dedicated to Freedom Way is a tribute to all minor inconveniences civillians pardon for the Troops.

What does it matter if the deer was in the tree? If you hunt animals, you kill them. I forget your dead eye ends an animal's life with no suffering. The animal that couldn't defend itself from your gun. Some people see killing as killing. Doesn't matter how it was done. Or that the deer used could have been road kill.

Funny how you were such a pistol at an early age and raised such wonderful children that respected your gun danger sermon from day one. Why did you fear a man when you became an adult? Did yiou have bad judgment? It doesn't seem you are willing to give the 8yo that same excuse. Or his dad, which you seem to absolve of all wrong doing.

You consider your childhood experience normal and acceptable. Some consider it very different from what a childhood should be and what their own experience was. Leaving an 8yo to come home to empty house doesn't sound like a healthy childhood experience. Neither does having a 2-timing boarder with a handgun in his truck and a bullet in his door. Especially if you are being raised Catholic. Lead me not into temptation.................JMOO

I guess fishing is too bland for a 7yo to enjoy. Get em a gun and liven things up. :barf:

[Pag Boi]

Why was Tiffany out "running around to stores" while she knew her step-son, an 8 yr old boy, was home alone?

Sorry, can't get that one out of my head. :glare:

I can't either. I can't imagine leaving a 3rd grader home alone. Or being brave enough to enter an empty house at that age.

Did he have a key to the door or was it left unlocked? Wasn't it said that he came home alone 2 days a wk?

[Pag Boi]

Do you have a link where it states they found the spelling paper in his room with blood on it the second time they searched? I haven't heard about that and them finding that in his room.

I personally don't even think they will need the confession. The officer that was interviewed by Brewer said they will be able to determine where the shooter was standing each time they fired and the height of the shooter.

Also now that we know two of the shots were done at close range there is a very good possibility that forensics will be found on his clothing, most likely his pants and possibly his shoes. Many times those cant be seen with the naked eye as the mist is so fine but when forensically analyzed it shows a much different story. Also it will be telling as to what type of blood pattern was found on his pants that could be seen. Was it a smudge, smear? Or was it blood spatter from standing so close when the close up shots were fired? It will show if it had no velocity or was placed there due to high velocity.

I have never thought that the confession was the crux of this case. Even if it is suppressed it will not stop the evidence.

The only thing that will stop this case for now is if they deem him age incompetent now and nothing will be known for at least 8 months until this case is revisited and he is assessed once again.

imoo


Huh???

The autopsy concludes there was no evidence the shots were fired at close range.

http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=9558167

There are several things that could stop this case against the little boy. When the forensics evidence is returned for one.

Brewer says his investigation shows the child could not have fired the shots. I wonder what else his investigation will turn up. Could he uncover something that could possibly stop this case against this child?

This case hardly begins or ends with this little boy JMOO. I can see why some might think it does tho.

[Details]

Huh???

The autopsy concludes there was no evidence the shots were fired at close range.

http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=9558167

There are several things that could stop this case against the little boy. When the forensics evidence is returned for one.

Brewer says his investigation shows the child could not have fired the shots. I wonder what else his investigation will turn up. Could he uncover something that could possibly stop this case against this child?

This case hardly begins or ends with this little boy JMOO. I can see why some might think it does tho.Why do you quote from a secondhand report of the autopsy? Articles with quotes from the real thing have been linked - and it says something quite different.

Here's an article without the middleman:
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Autopsy-St-Johns-murder-victims-shot-in-the-head/gsb18gJlwkizzVprKFwW0A.cspx
You'll note the actual pathologist - not your middleman - writes that there is no evidence of close range firing in 3 of the shots to the father, 5 of the shots to Tim. Since they were shot 4 and 6 times respectively, that leaves an obvious conclusion - that one of the shots on each may have been close range.

[Pag Boi]

Why do you quote from a secondhand report of the autopsy? Articles with quotes from the real thing have been linked - and it says something quite different.

Here's an article without the middleman:
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Autopsy-St-Johns-murder-victims-shot-in-the-head/gsb18gJlwkizzVprKFwW0A.cspx
You'll note the actual pathologist - not your middleman - writes that there is no evidence of close range firing in 3 of the shots to the father, 5 of the shots to Tim. Since they were shot 4 and 6 times respectively, that leaves an obvious conclusion - that one of the shots on each may have been close range.

If it was obvious, why wouldn't they just point blank state it in the AR? They had no problem point blank stating anything else. The ME didn't state close range. He is not a middleman. So why try to put words in his mouth? If he wanted to state it as fact, he would have.

Most likely b/c they cannot say with absolute certainty that they were close range JMOO. Since it is not stated, we can't say we know for a fact.