Dec. 15 -

[MerriMent]

Excuse me?

Do you think indecent exposure is only a crime, or offensive, when it involves a child? The man was at someone's party. I'm sure many people were offended.

Nudeness in a private home isn't legally indecent exposure. Was Michelle offended?

[MerriMent]

Apparently, the ability to get a job. According to the custody suit, he was fired in September and is currently unemployed.

The custody suit makes quite a few claims. Doesn't mean they are true.

[Cardinal]

I don't have a link today but I'm sure the paper work will surface . Alan sued LF for divorce on grounds of adultery.

Jason can hardly cast that stone, can he?

Besides, most divorce complaints are he said/she said. And since AF is deceased, rest his soul, he can't testify.

[Cardinal]

Better advice: learn to read. That poster told you the rumor was an unproved rumor. That was true then and is true today. Learn to read and you will see Linda is just copying board rumors. As usual, you are spreading the unproved rumors for the gullible.

Were you at the party?

[MerriMent]

You might think not but once it's out there in court, it goes into the column of what is not in the best interests of the child, even if it is only sub-consciously by the Judge who is the ultmate arbiter of who gets TC of Cassidy. The ideal solution for any Judge is to have no estrangement between the parties and if one party clearly subscribes to that arrangement, whether we like it or not, it carries weight, imo.

With all due respect, you live in another country and don't seem to understand that there is already case law established by the NC Supreme Count to not get involved in decisions made by parents on behalf of their children's best interest. You also have never met these people and have no idea the reasons why Jason determined a relationship between his daughter and her grandmother and aunt are not in her best interest. The fact is, Jason maintained the child's relationship with Michelle's father and his family and that relationship continues. It's Jason's constitutional right as a parent to make such decisions for his child without a court's involvement.

[MerriMent]

Were you at the party?

Was Cassidy?

[Cardinal]

Was Cassidy?

OMG I hope not. Was she???

But that wasn't my point. King buff claimed the party incident is unfounded. If he weren't at the party, he couldn't possibly know that, IMO.

[MerriMent]

Jason can hardly cast that stone, can he?

Besides, most divorce complaints are he said/she said. And since AF is deceased, rest his soul, he can't testify.

In New York, a little more proof is required above he said/she said. Alan Fisher's request for divorce was granted. He might be deceased but his wife and other children can testify or supply affidavits.

[Cardinal]

Under oath WHERE?

You sure are getting carried away with your claims.

Isn't a deposition made under oath?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Nudeness in a private home isn't legally indecent exposure. Was Michelle offended?

Michelle was not there. Jason went alone.

[Cardinal]

In New York, a little more proof is required above he said/she said. Alan Fisher's request for divorce was granted. He might be deceased but his wife and other children can testify or supply affidavits.

Were his wife and other children around at the time of the alleged adultery? If not, it's hearsay, isn't it?

The last time I checked, parties to a court proceeding have the right to cross-examine witnesses. Alan can't be cross-examined.

JMO

[MerriMent]

OMG I hope not. Was she???

But that wasn't my point. King buff claimed the party incident is unfounded. If he weren't at the party, he couldn't possibly know that, IMO.

Fisher claims it was demeaning to Michelle. No mention of Cassidy being present. But then, Linda Fisher wasn't at the party, either was she? She doesn't name her source and neither does Kingbuff. Was everybody else at this party stone cold sober? Doubtful.

If it happened prior to Michelle's murder at an adult party in a private home, it's not going to persuade a judge over two years later to force Jason to undergo a psych examination to determine if he's a fit parent. All it shows the Judge is how weak Fisher's complaint really is.

[Cardinal]

Fisher claims it was demeaning to Michelle. No mention of Cassidy being present. But then, Linda Fisher wasn't at the party, either was she? She doesn't name her source and neither does Kingbuff. Was everybody else at this party stone cold sober? Doubtful.

If it happened prior to Michelle's murder at an adult party in a private home, it's not going to persuade a judge over two years later to force Jason to undergo a psych examination to determine if he's a fit parent. All it shows the Judge is how weak Fisher's complaint really is.

I don't see how you can know what the judge may be persuaded to do, particularly when it's a matter of the welfare of a minor.

Besides, unless Jason responds, it may not matter how strong her complaint is.

JMO

[MerriMent]

Were his wife and other children around at the time of the alleged adultery? If not, it's hearsay, isn't it?

The last time I checked, parties to a court proceeding have the right to cross-examine witnesses. Alan can't be cross-examined.

JMO

It's not alleged adultery. The divorce was granted and is a matter of public record.

Last time I checked, anybody can testify about what they've witnessed.

[MerriMent]

I don't see how you can know what the judge may be persuaded to do, particularly when it's a matter of the welfare of a minor.

Besides, unless Jason responds, it may not matter how strong her complaint is.

JMO

It does matter how strong the complaint is. Family court does not accept any and all custody hearing requests just because somebody decided they want to be given somebody else's child.

I do know returning Christmas parents unopened isn't a "child welfare" issue that merits court intervention just as I know a judge isn't going to order a psych evaluation based on behavior exhibited at an adult party over two years ago.

[Cardinal]

It's not alleged adultery. The divorce was granted and is a matter of public record.

Last time I checked, anybody can testify about what they've witnessed.

Public record or not, I haven't seen it, so it's "alleged" as far as I'm concerned. And unless you're telling me someone witnessed the alleged adultery, they can't testify it happened.

But like I said earlier, Jason can hardly cast that stone, can he?

[MerriMent]

Michelle was not there. Jason went alone.

And Michelle remained married to him.

[Cardinal]

It does matter how strong the complaint is. Family court does not accept any and all custody hearing requests just because somebody decided they want to be given somebody else's child.

I do know returning Christmas parents unopened isn't a "child welfare" issue that merits court intervention just as I know a judge isn't going to order a psych evaluation based on behavior exhibited at an adult party over two years ago.

Then Jason should have nothing to worry about, right? Just like he had nothing to worry about with the WDS?

[annalyzer]

Then Jason should have nothing to worry about, right? Just like he had nothing to worry about with the WDS?

Card do you think Jason will fight this?

[Cardinal]

Card do you think Jason will fight this?

I honestly don't know, Anna. I can't imagine that he could justify NOT fighting it to his mother and sisters. But I don't think filing a response, refusing to be evaluated, and pleading the 5th is going to cut it. I don't think Linda's attorney filed this suit without a lot of ammunition.

JMO


BBL :seeya:

[MerriMent]

Public record or not, I haven't seen it, so it's "alleged" as far as I'm concerned. And unless you're telling me someone witnessed the alleged adultery, they can't testify it happened.

But like I said earlier, Jason can hardly cast that stone, can he?

Fisher cast the stone at Jason, he certainly can cast it right back, along with details such as names and ages.

The fact remains, Fisher's divorce is public record and the court agreed with Alan Fisher. He proved his case. Adultery means a minimum of a third party was involved. And what if Michelle witnessed it and that's why she decided to seek therapy years later?

[jerry50]

I don't have a link today but I'm sure the paper work will surface . Alan sued LF for divorce on grounds of adultery.


Are you saying adultery is deplorable because JY also committed adultery and not only did he cheat on his wife he also cheated on his mistress who wanted to have his child.

[MerriMent]

Then Jason should have nothing to worry about, right? Just like he had nothing to worry about with the WDS?

I don't believe Jason or his attorney is worried except from a safety standpoint. The Fisher duo seem to be a loose cannon and certainly have plastered CY's recent photo all over the media and Internet even though the child was a possible witness to an as yet unsolved crime.

[annalyzer]

Are you saying adultery is deplorable because JY also committed adultery and not only did he cheat on his wife he also cheated on his mistress who wanted to have his child.


No but one can't hold Jason's adultery against him if they have committed it themselves.

[MerriMent]

Are you saying adultery is deplorable because JY also committed adultery and not only did he cheat on his wife he also cheated on his mistress who wanted to have his child.

I'm saying adultery doesn't make Fisher a better parent than Jason Young. And if Fisher committed this adultery in her own home with her children present, it makes her an even worse parent. JMO.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

And Michelle remained married to him.

For a very few weeks. She was murdered soon after.

[jerry50]

I'm saying adultery doesn't make Fisher a better parent than Jason Young. And if Fisher committed this adultery in her own home with her children present, it makes her an even worse parent. JMO.


DO you have a link?

[MerriMent]

Isn't a deposition made under oath?

A deposition requires both attorneys present.

[jerry50]

No but one can't hold Jason's adultery against him if they have committed it themselves.

Are you saying confused june has committed adultery? She seems to be the one who is accusing Linda.

[Jester]

The custody suit makes quite a few claims. Doesn't mean they are true.

Jason has two choices, similar to his option in the wrongful death suit. He can respond to the affidavit, where he would have to address all the point therein; including the allegation that he is a murderer. He can choose not to respond, in which case he loses by default.

If the statements in the filed affidavit are not true, Jason has to respond and state why they are not true. What are the chances that Jason speaks up in order to retain custody of his daughter, and at the risk of revealing facts that may be used against him in a criminal trial? I think none.

[MerriMent]

No but one can't hold Jason's adultery against him if they have committed it themselves.

A judge certainly won't take away custody from a parent on that basis.

[MerriMent]

Jason has two choices, similar to his option in the wrongful death suit. He can respond to the affidavit, where he would have to address all the point therein; including the allegation that he is a murderer. He can choose not to respond, in which case he loses by default.

If the statements in the filed affidavit are not true, Jason has to respond and state why they are not true. What are the chances that Jason speaks up in order to retain custody of his daughter, and at the risk of revealing facts that may be used against him in a criminal trial? I think none.

Not so. Custody is nothing like a wrongful death lawsuit nor is custody ever awarded by "default." The child will have a voice, imo.

[Jester]

A judge certainly won't take away custody from a parent on that basis.

Good point. However, if we look at the totality of the affidavit, rather than one or two individual paragraphs, we see a different picture that could very well result in the loss of custody.

[MerriMent]

I think you may be wrong there. LF has to prove they are true not the other way around.

Yes and LF also has to prove the child would be better off living with her than with her parent.

[Jester]

I think you may be wrong there. LF has to prove they are true not the other way around.

Only if she is challenged will she be required to provide supporting documentation. If Young remains mute, no further documentation is required. Young's muteness would translate to a statement that he accepts the contents of the affidavit.

[Jester]

Not so. Custody is nothing like a wrongful death lawsuit nor is custody ever awarded by "default." The child will have a voice, imo.

Four year olds are not given a choice/voice regarding their custodial arrangements.

[MerriMent]

Good point. However, if we look at the totality of the affidavit, rather than one or two individual paragraphs, we see a different picture that could very well result in the loss of custody.

I don't see any picture that would result in loss of custody. I do see a picture of a desperate woman who first tried to get control of $1+ million in life insurance and failed and now has sought custody of the child. Frankly, Cassidy needs her own attorney.

[MerriMent]

Four year olds are not given a choice/voice regarding their custodial arrangements.

Yes, they are. Courts routinely appoint a third party to interview the child and to advise the court.

[annalyzer]

Yes, they are. Courts routinely appoint a third party to interview the child and to advise the court.


Yes, they do. Likely a psychologist or whatever will have a few sessions with Cassidy. Poor thing.

[Jester]

Yes and LF also has to prove the child would be better off living with her than with her parent.

Not exactly true. What must be demonstrated is that the child may be at risk in the current environment.

The affidavit alleges that Young is unemployed, has failed to establish a home for the child, practices sexual behaviors that can be considered deviant, is a murderer, is psychologically abusive, and has no future, amongst other points.

[MerriMent]

Only if she is challenged will she be required to provide supporting documentation. If Young remains mute, no further documentation is required. Young's muteness would translate to a statement that he accepts the contents of the affidavit.

There is a very real child at the center of this and she has rights. There is no "default" that will automatically "give" her to somebody else as though she is a piece of property.

[Jester]

Yes, they are. Courts routinely appoint a third party to interview the child and to advise the court.

That may well happen. The result would be that Young would be evaluated by a psychologist, and the home that he provides would be assessed. The fact that he hasn't established a home, but rather camps out with one or another relative, won't work to his favor. The child would be assessed by a court appointed psychologist. Additionally, the home of the other party would be assessed. Fortunately, the other parties actually have homes.

[Jester]

There is a very real child at the center of this and she has rights. There is no "default" that will automatically "give" her to somebody else as though she is a piece of property.

I think you missed my point. I said that a mute response from Young will be understood as his admission that all the paragraphs of the affidavit are true. If all the paragraphs are true, then he cannot provide a suitable environment for a young child - that part a no-brainer.

[jerry50]

Yes, they do. Likely a psychologist or whatever will have a few sessions with Cassidy. Poor thing.

Maybe they will play the "Daddy did it" tape.

[MerriMent]

Not exactly true. What must be demonstrated is that the child may be at risk in the current environment.

The affidavit alleges that Young is unemployed, has failed to establish a home for the child, practices sexual behaviors that can be considered deviant, is a murderer, is psychologically abusive, and has no future, amongst other points.

No, it must be proved the child IS at risk and so far there hasn't been a request for CPS involvement or emergency temp custody. Cassidy does have a home and I've seen no proof that Jason practices deviant sexual behavior or is psychologically abusive. Those are merely hysterical claims made by an bitter grandparent at this point.

As far as JY being unemployed, that isn't grounds to remove a child from her home and family. Not everybody needs to be employed to be financially stable. Jason and Cassidy have vacationed quite a bit with family and friends. That's not a sign of financial instability.

Making home with family isn't a sign of instability, Courts view it just the opposite and Cassidy Young is living with stable family. A retired, divorced grandmother living in New York and a single aunt living in NC who is being supported by that retiree aren't a better fit than what CY now has with her parent.

[MerriMent]

I think you missed my point. I said that a mute response from Young will be understood as his admission that all the paragraphs of the affidavit are true. If all the paragraphs are true, then he cannot provide a suitable environment for a young child - that part a no-brainer.

Yes, you did say that and it's just your wishful thinking that a judge is going to uproot a child from her home because her father failed to respond. Her father doesn't have to respond. An attorney can respond.

[MerriMent]

Yes, they do. Likely a psychologist or whatever will have a few sessions with Cassidy. Poor thing.

Unless the child already is represented by counsel, the court usually appoints someone.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/g028.htm
GUARDIAN AD LITEM - Lat. "guardian at law." The person appointed by the court to look out for the best interests of the child during the course of legal proceedings.

[MerriMent]

That may well happen. The result would be that Young would be evaluated by a psychologist, and the home that he provides would be assessed. The fact that he hasn't established a home, but rather camps out with one or another relative, won't work to his favor. The child would be assessed by a court appointed psychologist. Additionally, the home of the other party would be assessed. Fortunately, the other parties actually have homes.

Your hypocrisy involves some very twisted logic. Jason and Cassidy live in their home with their posessions and family but it's okay to uproot and traumatize Cassidy to go live without her daddy, in a city she's never lived in, in a home she's never lived in, with an aunt and grandmother she's barely seen in over two years--half her life? I'm confident a judge will agree that is NOT in Cassidy's best interest.

[Jester]

Yes, you did say that and it's just your wishful thinking that a judge is going to uproot a child from her home because her father failed to respond. Her father doesn't have to respond. An attorney can respond.

Obviously an attorney responds in court, but there's not much to say without a sworn affidavit from Young responding to the allegations.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. We held opposing beliefs regarding the wrongful death suit, as we do now.

BTW: I made no comments about my "wishful thinking"

[MerriMent]

Obviously an attorney responds in court, but there's not much to say without a sworn affidavit from Young responding to the allegations.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. We held opposing beliefs regarding the wrongful death suit, as we do now.

BTW: I made no comments about my "wishful thinking"

A response can be by an attorney in writing. A "sworn affidavit" (your term) from Jason isn't legally required at this point. That's fact and whether you agree with it isn't my problem.

[Jester]

A response can be by an attorney in writing. A "sworn affidavit" (your term) from Jason isn't legally required at this point. That's fact and whether you agree with it isn't my problem.

What exactly is the attorney going to say if his client is not prepared to respond to the affidavit? Something like: "Uhm, that's not true, and that's all you need to know"?

[Leanne Weich]

The Cooper case set no precedence.

Judge Sasser made it quite clear that she was taking the elephant in the room into consideration when making a ruling on TC of the Cooper girls and, while you're right, it hasn't technically established precedent, she clearly views it as a determining factor in her decisions. LF & MF were fortunate enough to draw the self same judge for this hearing. BTW, I haven't seen any submission to the S Crt to have the ruling overturned - wonder why that is? Maybe BC knows his family is not the ideal environment for his kids to be raised in and knows the Rentz's will do a better job of raising the girls. My gut feeling is if Judge Sasser awards TC of Cassidy to the Fishers, no appeal will change that. Michelle's family obviously raised a strong and principled woman whereas it appears Jason was raised to be somewhat of a sexual deviant. The majority of what we have heard about JY's sexually deviant behavior have been borne out by the latest TC complaint, imo. I do realise that some posters feel him returning to a room after visiting the bathroom naked is no big deal if no children were there or it was not a public place. In that regard, I differ big time whether he was sober or inebriated - that, in my book is inexcusable. Can you imagine any parent who has read that ever allowing their children to spend time with Cassidy whilst she is under JY's custody and control?

[Leanne Weich]

I don't have a link today but I'm sure the paper work will surface . Alan sued LF for divorce on grounds of adultery.

We've heard that for 2 years now though. I'll wait for the link, however. It does, however, seem odd that both Michelle and Meredith were estranged from their father if the reason for the divorce was adultery on Linda's part and, as everyone is so fond of saying, because Jason committed adultery, it doesn't make him a murderer. Likewise, even if Linda had done so, it doesn't make her an unfit person to raise Cassidy. She sure did a damn good job with Michelle.

[Jester]

Judge Sasser made it quite clear that she was taking the elephant in the room into consideration when making a ruling on TC of the Cooper girls and, while you're right, it hasn't technically established precedent, she clearly views it as a determining factor in her decisions. LF & MF were fortunate enough to draw the self same judge for this hearing. BTW, I haven't seen any submission to the S Crt to have the ruling overturned - wonder why that is? Maybe BC knows his family is not the ideal environment for his kids to be raised in and knows the Rentz's will do a better job of raising the girls. My gut feeling is if Judge Sasser awards TC of Cassidy to the Fishers, no appeal will change that. Michelle's family obviously raised a strong and principled woman whereas it appears Jason was raised to be somewhat of a sexual deviant. The majority of what we have heard about JY's sexually deviant behavior have been borne out by the latest TC complaint, imo. I do realise that some posters feel him returning to a room after visiting the bathroom naked is no big deal if no children were there or it was not a public place. In that regard, I differ big time whether he was sober or inebriated - that, in my book is inexcusable. Can you imagine any parent who has read that ever allowing their children to spend time with Cassidy whilst she is under JY's custody and control?

You make an excellent point. Other parents would not allow their children to visit Cassidy if Young was supervising, and the latest revelations could lead to additional social problems for Cassidy in the future.

[Leanne Weich]

With all due respect, you live in another country and don't seem to understand that there is already case law established by the NC Supreme Count to not get involved in decisions made by parents on behalf of their children's best interest. You also have never met these people and have no idea the reasons why Jason determined a relationship between his daughter and her grandmother and aunt are not in her best interest. The fact is, Jason maintained the child's relationship with Michelle's father and his family and that relationship continues. It's Jason's constitutional right as a parent to make such decisions for his child without a court's involvement.

Funny how the fact I live in another country is your way of attempting to discount my opinions on anything. As far as " there is already case law established by the NC Supreme Count to not get involved in decisions made by parents on behalf of their children's best interest" is concerned, there is precedent set to correct the situation if a child's best interests are not being served by the status quo. It is my opinion that Jason maintained the relationship with Alan because he was, in all likelihood, not party to all the ins and outs of his daughter's marriage and, hence, took JY's protestations of innocence as fact. If he were still alive, with what has subsequently transpired, I'm not so sure there would still be a relationship to maintain. We'll see, in the near future, if it is still Jason's constitutional right to make decisions for his child.

Cassidy, imo, has a constitutional right to a stable (income earning) father with morals that are not likely to preclude other parents from allowing their children overnight visits with her as well as the ability to retain a warm and loving relationship with her maternal family. JMHO.

[Leanne Weich]

Fisher claims it was demeaning to Michelle. No mention of Cassidy being present. But then, Linda Fisher wasn't at the party, either was she? She doesn't name her source and neither does Kingbuff. Was everybody else at this party stone cold sober? Doubtful.

If it happened prior to Michelle's murder at an adult party in a private home, it's not going to persuade a judge over two years later to force Jason to undergo a psych examination to determine if he's a fit parent. All it shows the Judge is how weak Fisher's complaint really is.

I hope you're not a grandmother if your criteria for what is right or wrong depends on your child or grandchild being present when a man exposes himself to partygoers. How humiliating it must have been for Michelle to hear of this stunt if she wasn't at the party.

Gives TALK OF THE TOWN a whole new meaning doesn't it?

[Leanne Weich]

I don't see how you can know what the judge may be persuaded to do, particularly when it's a matter of the welfare of a minor.

Besides, unless Jason responds, it may not matter how strong her complaint is.

JMO

Card, once again Jason's supporters are explaining away each item of evidence as best they can. The Judge will take the totality of the evidence into consideration when adjudging this action.

[JHP]

Your hypocrisy involves some very twisted logic. Jason and Cassidy live in their home with their posessions and family but it's okay to uproot and traumatize Cassidy to go live without her daddy, in a city she's never lived in, in a home she's never lived in, with an aunt and grandmother she's barely seen in over two years--half her life? I'm confident a judge will agree that is NOT in Cassidy's best interest.

I'm confident the Judge will look at whether or not it's a good idea for Cassidy to live with a person, who a competant NC Judge has ruled slayed her Mother.

jmo

[Leanne Weich]

It does matter how strong the complaint is. Family court does not accept any and all custody hearing requests just because somebody decided they want to be given somebody else's child.

I do know returning Christmas parents unopened isn't a "child welfare" issue that merits court intervention just as I know a judge isn't going to order a psych evaluation based on behavior exhibited at an adult party over two years ago.

Even at adult parties (whether they be adult in nature by way of the age of the attendees) or adult parties where items of an adult nature are sold, I'm sure the vast majority of people would be disgusted by Jason's behavior. In fact, if any couples attended, I'm surprised a male attendee didn't beat the crap out of him.

[Cardinal]

Card, once again Jason's supporters are explaining away each item of evidence as best they can. The Judge will take the totality of the evidence into consideration when adjudging this action.

I see that, Leanne. And I appreciate your knowledge and opinions regarding custody matters.

Tell me, how much weight will be given to Jason having been found a "slayer" under NC law? I realize that can't be entered into a criminal proceeding against him, but I would think it can certainly be admitted as evidence in another civil matter.

Adultery pales in comparison to that, IMO.

[Leanne Weich]

Fisher cast the stone at Jason, he certainly can cast it right back, along with details such as names and ages.

The fact remains, Fisher's divorce is public record and the court agreed with Alan Fisher. He proved his case. Adultery means a minimum of a third party was involved. And what if Michelle witnessed it and that's why she decided to seek therapy years later?

How would her seeking therapy years later pertain to her mother's alleged adultery? And, how would that play into her murder that the judge ordered the therapist to hand over her records. I do believe you're grasping at straws.

[achristie]

I see that, Leanne. And I appreciate your knowledge and opinions regarding custody matters.

Tell me, how much weight will be given to Jason having been found a "slayer" under NC law? I realize that can't be entered into a criminal proceeding against him, but I would think it can certainly be admitted as evidence in another civil matter.

Adultery pales in comparison to that, IMO.

Indeed, it does. Talk about the elephant in the room !

MOO Aggie

[Cardinal]

Indeed, it does. Talk about the elephant in the room !

MOO Aggie

I hope someone brings peanuts. :biggrin:

Changing the subject somewhat, did anyone else note the wording "several women" in the section of the custody suit about Jason's extramarital relationships? To me, several is more than two.

Do you think it's possible there's another woman besides MM and the houseguest? One who maybe cared for Cassidy after the murder?

[Jester]

I hope someone brings peanuts. :biggrin:

Changing the subject somewhat, did anyone else note the wording "several women" in the section of the custody suit about Jason's extramarital relationships? To me, several is more than two.

Do you think it's possible there's another woman besides MM and the houseguest? One who maybe cared for Cassidy after the murder?

My guess would be that there were other women during the marriage. Early on, the police seized CDs of photos taken during the gambling vacation. Perhaps there is evidence of another woman from those photos.

[Cardinal]

My guess would be that there were other women during the marriage. Early on, the police seized CDs of photos taken during the gambling vacation. Perhaps there is evidence of another woman from those photos.

Based upon what we've learned in the past few months, I don't doubt there were other women during the marriage. But the custody suit references "several women in the weeks and months before Michelle's murder." (When did he have time to work?)

Anyway, I'm wondering if LE is looking for emails, etc. with another woman other than MM or the houseguest. One that was an accessory.

JMO

[MerriMent]

What exactly is the attorney going to say if his client is not prepared to respond to the affidavit? Something like: "Uhm, that's not true, and that's all you need to know"?

What affidavit is Jason responding to?

[MerriMent]

We've heard that for 2 years now though. I'll wait for the link, however. It does, however, seem odd that both Michelle and Meredith were estranged from their father if the reason for the divorce was adultery on Linda's part and, as everyone is so fond of saying, because Jason committed adultery, it doesn't make him a murderer. Likewise, even if Linda had done so, it doesn't make her an unfit person to raise Cassidy. She sure did a damn good job with Michelle.

it's my understanding that neither Michelle nor Meredith were estranged from their father at the time of Michelle's murder.

[MerriMent]

Funny how the fact I live in another country is your way of attempting to discount my opinions on anything. As far as " there is already case law established by the NC Supreme Count to not get involved in decisions made by parents on behalf of their children's best interest" is concerned, there is precedent set to correct the situation if a child's best interests are not being served by the status quo. It is my opinion that Jason maintained the relationship with Alan because he was, in all likelihood, not party to all the ins and outs of his daughter's marriage and, hence, took JY's protestations of innocence as fact. If he were still alive, with what has subsequently transpired, I'm not so sure there would still be a relationship to maintain. We'll see, in the near future, if it is still Jason's constitutional right to make decisions for his child.

Cassidy, imo, has a constitutional right to a stable (income earning) father with morals that are not likely to preclude other parents from allowing their children overnight visits with her as well as the ability to retain a warm and loving relationship with her maternal family. JMHO.

I discount your opinions because they aren't based on facts of the legal system of THIS country which is the one in which Cassidy resides. Cassidy has lived in a stable environment the past two years and has had and will continue to have a loving relationship with her father's family and her mother's father and his family. I don't see anything in Fisher's claims that disputes those real facts.

[annalyzer]

My party guests don't indulge in drunken nudity, nor do they indulge in the kind of party tricks referenced in the custody suit. My circle of friends is more mature than that, thankfully.

I suppose it depends upon one's definition of "deviant". Wonder what Judge Sasser's definition is, since hers is the only one that will matter.

JMO


Most don't but I can see someone getting really drunk, forgetting where they're at and getting undressed like that. He may have thought he was at home and was getting ready for bed. Now if he'd attacked a woman or a child or something that would be different.

[Cardinal]

I discount your opinions because they aren't based on facts of the legal system of THIS country which is the one in which Cassidy resides. Cassidy has lived in a stable environment the past two years and has had and will continue to have a loving relationship with her father's family and her mother's father and his family. I don't see anything in Fisher's claims that disputes those real facts.

Her mother's father is deceased.

[on the go]

Funny how the fact I live in another country is your way of attempting to discount my opinions on anything. As far as " there is already case law established by the NC Supreme Count to not get involved in decisions made by parents on behalf of their children's best interest" is concerned, there is precedent set to correct the situation if a child's best interests are not being served by the status quo. It is my opinion that Jason maintained the relationship with Alan because he was, in all likelihood, not party to all the ins and outs of his daughter's marriage and, hence, took JY's protestations of innocence as fact. If he were still alive, with what has subsequently transpired, I'm not so sure there would still be a relationship to maintain. We'll see, in the near future, if it is still Jason's constitutional right to make decisions for his child.

Cassidy, imo, has a constitutional right to a stable (income earning) father with morals that are not likely to preclude other parents from allowing their children overnight visits with her as well as the ability to retain a warm and loving relationship with her maternal family. JMHO.


well stated, Leanne.

[Cardinal]

Most don't but I can see someone getting really drunk, forgetting where they're at and getting undressed like that. He may have thought he was at home and was getting ready for bed. Now if he'd attacked a woman or a child or something that would be different.

Oh, I can see it (after Bike Week in Daytona, I can see just about anything), but I wouldn't want to be married to him. (ETA: And I wouldn't want him to be a parent to my child.)

And the party tricks?

[MerriMent]

I hope you're not a grandmother if your criteria for what is right or wrong depends on your child or grandchild being present when a man exposes himself to partygoers. How humiliating it must have been for Michelle to hear of this stunt if she wasn't at the party.

Gives TALK OF THE TOWN a whole new meaning doesn't it?

No I'm not a grandmother but I also don't have problem with adult nudity amongst adults. I don't allow my children around drunks, nude or not and there is no evidence Michelle or Jason allowed their child to be exposed to such behavior and that's all the court cares about: the child.

I certainly don't consider adult nudity to be "deviant sexual behavior" as you think.

[enigma™]

~snipped to address~ Even if true, nudity in the presence of adults is not "deviant sexual behavior."

Tell that to a rape victim.

[MerriMent]

Most don't but I can see someone getting really drunk, forgetting where they're at and getting undressed like that. He may have thought he was at home and was getting ready for bed. Now if he'd attacked a woman or a child or something that would be different.

It will be of no interest to the judge because it isn't relevant because the child wasn't present, it happened too long ago and Jason was drunk. It's not a sign of mental illness if he was drunk. My impression from reading the claim is that Jason went into the bathroom because he was ill. He may have removed his clothes because he threw up on them. Whatever took place, to call it "deviant sexual behavior" is absurd.

[enigma™]

Most don't but I can see someone getting really drunk, forgetting where they're at and getting undressed like that. He may have thought he was at home and was getting ready for bed. Now if he'd attacked a woman or a child or something that would be different.

Do you not think he would have done an about face as soon as he exited the bathroom and saw a room full of people? According to the document, he sat down on a sofa, in the midst of party guests, and what? He sat there, naked as a jaybird, and did nothing to rectify his nudity. I imagine many in attendance were embarrassed for Michelle, even though she was not present.

[annalyzer]

Do you not think he would have done an about face as soon as he exited the bathroom and saw a room full of people? According to the document, he sat down on a sofa, in the midst of party guests, and what? He sat there, naked as a jaybird, and did nothing to rectify his nudity. I imagine many in attendance were embarrassed for Michelle, even though she was not present.

If he was drunk enough he wouldn't have known where he was at much less that people were looking at him. It was stated that he was so drunk that some people took him to the bathroom. He may have gotten sick, passed out for all we know, stirred awake, thought he was at home, undressed and staggered to the sofa.

[Cardinal]

It will be of no interest to the judge because it isn't relevant because the child wasn't present, it happened too long ago and Jason was drunk. It's not a sign of mental illness if he was drunk. My impression from reading the claim is that Jason went into the bathroom because he was ill. He may have removed his clothes because he threw up on them. Whatever took place, to call it "deviant sexual behavior" is absurd.

My impression from reading the claim is that Jason was so drunk he had to be escorted from the room, for whatever reason, and he was so drunk he came back completely unclothed and sat on the sofa.

I don't care whether or not it's called "deviant sexual behavior." Suppose that happened when Cassidy was in the house and needed assistance. Could he render it, in that condition?

JMO

[MerriMent]

Her mother's father is deceased.

fyi: so is her mother.

Being deceased is not a good reason for you to try to discount Alan's relationship to Cassidy. Alan's wife and children also represent Cassidy's maternal side of the family and I understand they continue to maintain close relationships with CY.

[enigma™]

If he was drunk enough he wouldn't have known where he was at much less that people were looking at him. It was stated that he was so drunk that some people took him to the bathroom. He may have gotten sick, passed out for all we know, stirred awake, thought he was at home, undressed and staggered to the sofa.

But it was at a party - i.e., a place with many people in attendance. He saw what was going on once he exited the bathroom naked. He proceeeded to sit on the sofa - nude - like it was all fun and games. And pardon me, but if he was that drunk, that he didn't know where he was, didn't care if he was naked, didn't care if he affected anyone negatively, then he has some serious issues that need to be addressed. That is one kind of drunk I never want to meet in my lifetime - call it black-out, call it whatever you want, the man has alcohol issues. THAT, in and of itself, is reason for the judge to take a closer look at his parenting ability/skills.

[Cardinal]

fyi: so is her mother.

Being deceased is not a good reason for you to try to discount Alan's relationship to Cassidy. Alan's wife and children also represent Cassidy's maternal side of the family and I understand they continue to maintain close relationships with CY.

I wasn't discounting anything. I was simply correcting an inaccuracy in your post.

ETA: Which I see you corrected.

[MerriMent]

My impression from reading the claim is that Jason was so drunk he had to be escorted from the room, for whatever reason, and he was so drunk he came back completely unclothed and sat on the sofa.

I don't care whether or not it's called "deviant sexual behavior." Suppose that happened when Cassidy was in the house and needed assistance. Could he render it, in that condition?

JMO

It didn't happen in Cassidy's presence, it wasn't deviant sexual behavior and it happened over two years ago. No judge is going to order a psych evaluation or remove a child from her parent on that basis.

all I can go on is what is stated in Fisher's claims that Jason was drunk and went into the bathroom. If he was escorted, why didn't the escort give him a towel? Sounds like either the escort didn't care or found it humorous.

[Cardinal]

It didn't happen in Cassidy's presence, it wasn't deviant sexual behavior and it happened over two years ago. No judge is going to order a psych evaluation or remove a child from her parent on that basis.

all I can go on is what is stated in Fisher's claims that Jason was drunk and went into the bathroom. If he was escorted, why didn't the escort give him a towel? Sounds like either the escort didn't care or found it humorous.

Why would the escort care? They weren't married to him, and didn't have a child with him.

[MerriMent]

I wasn't discounting anything. I was simply correcting an inaccuracy in your post.

ETA: Which I see you corrected.

No, it was your mistake. Try slowing down. There was no inaccuracy in my post.

[MerriMent]

Why would the escort care? They weren't married to him, and didn't have a child with him.

You'll have to ask the escort why they cared enough to escort him into the bathroom but not enough to cover him up.

[Cardinal]

You'll have to ask the escort why they cared enough to escort him into the bathroom but not enough to cover him up.

Maybe the judge will ask the escort exactly that.

[MerriMent]

But it was at a party - i.e., a place with many people in attendance. He saw what was going on once he exited the bathroom naked. He proceeeded to sit on the sofa - nude - like it was all fun and games. And pardon me, but if he was that drunk, that he didn't know where he was, didn't care if he was naked, didn't care if he affected anyone negatively, then he has some serious issues that need to be addressed. That is one kind of drunk I never want to meet in my lifetime - call it black-out, call it whatever you want, the man has alcohol issues. THAT, in and of itself, is reason for the judge to take a closer look at his parenting ability/skills.

It happened over two years ago. If it affected Jason's parenting ability, why didn't Michelle divorce him? Why didn't Fisher immediately seek emergency temp custody after Michelle's murder?

Who was at the party? What was the occasion? Why did someone care enough to escort Jason to the bathroom but not cover him up if it affected others so "negatively"???

[MerriMent]

Maybe the judge will ask the escort exactly that.

The judge won't waste the court's time.

[Cardinal]

The judge won't waste the court's time.

Then like I said, Jason has nothing to worry about, right?

[Cardinal]

I am more convinced than ever that Michelle intended to divorce Jason.

JMO


Goodnight :seeya:

[MerriMent]

Then like I said, Jason has nothing to worry about, right?

exactly right!

[Jester]

What affidavit is Jason responding to?

I mistakenly thought you were aware of the facts of this discussion. Here's the affidavit that I'm referring to when I discuss possible custodial issues surrounding Young's daughter.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/19/4172400/Fisher_custody_complaint_against_Jason_Young.pdf

[achristie]

It will be of no interest to the judge because it isn't relevant because the child wasn't present, it happened too long ago and Jason was drunk. It's not a sign of mental illness if he was drunk. My impression from reading the claim is that Jason went into the bathroom because he was ill. He may have removed his clothes because he threw up on them. Whatever took place, to call it "deviant sexual behavior" is absurd.

Let me get this straight. You are excusing the accused slayer's behavior because he was drunk and it happened too long ago?
Yet you are holding the innocent mother of the victim accountable for a divorce 20 some years ago?
If anything is absurd, it's your argument.

MOO Aggie

[enigma™]

It happened over two years ago. If it affected Jason's parenting ability, why didn't Michelle divorce him? Why didn't Fisher immediately seek emergency temp custody after Michelle's murder?

Who was at the party? What was the occasion? Why did someone care enough to escort Jason to the bathroom but not cover him up if it affected others so "negatively"???

Maybe Michelle did not have time to divorce him. Maybe Michelle was going to start proceedings, but was ... deterred by her bludgeoning? Maybe Michelle had enough, let Jason know she had had enough, and Jason Lynn Young (declared slayer by a court of law) was not going to let a woman divorce him, so he murdered her instead? Stranger things have happened. Let your mind wander to the right side of the law for a moment. It will all become clear for you, maybe...

[on the go]

fyi: so is her mother.

Being deceased is not a good reason for you to try to discount Alan's relationship to Cassidy. Alan's wife and children also represent Cassidy's maternal side of the family and I understand they continue to maintain close relationships with CY.

How many children does Alan have with his second wife?

[Jester]

Based upon what we've learned in the past few months, I don't doubt there were other women during the marriage. But the custody suit references "several women in the weeks and months before Michelle's murder." (When did he have time to work?)

Anyway, I'm wondering if LE is looking for emails, etc. with another woman other than MM or the houseguest. One that was an accessory.

JMO

I know the police were interested in the photos from the LV trip that Young took with his mother and sister. Additionally, witnesses said that Michelle was very upset about the trip. Maybe there was another woman that Young met in LV, or arranged to meet in LV.

[Jester]

Most don't but I can see someone getting really drunk, forgetting where they're at and getting undressed like that. He may have thought he was at home and was getting ready for bed. Now if he'd attacked a woman or a child or something that would be different.

The rumor, at the time that this first came out, was that Young wet himself, so he removed his clothes in the bathroom and returned to the party naked.

[enigma™]

Let me get this straight. You are excusing the accused slayer's behavior because he was drunk and it happened too long ago?
Yet you are holding the innocent mother of the victim accountable for a divorce 20 some years ago?
If anything is absurd, it's your argument.

MOO Aggie

Isn't that something? It baffles the mind, befuddles the brain, and seriously impairs my thoughts that s/he has anything to offer this discussion. It makes one wonder what happened in the lives of those that seem to want this "slayer" to get off. This isn't about IUPG, this is about - something happened in their life, and now they want everyone to get away with murder. NEWS FLASH - sometimes LE does not get it right, but mostly they do. They have it right zoning in on the declared "slayer", Jason Lynn Young.

Try to find it in your hearts this holiday season, to accept the fact that Linda and Meredith only want the best for Cassidy. They want to love her - nothing more, nothing less. They have been denied that simple pleasure, so they have had to resort to the judicial system to make that right.

Bless them all - there will be justice - for Michelle, for Rylan, and most of all for Cassidy.

[Jester]

It will be of no interest to the judge because it isn't relevant because the child wasn't present, it happened too long ago and Jason was drunk. It's not a sign of mental illness if he was drunk. My impression from reading the claim is that Jason went into the bathroom because he was ill. He may have removed his clothes because he threw up on them. Whatever took place, to call it "deviant sexual behavior" is absurd.

Let's assume that Young was simply so drunk he lost his inhibitions. Let's keep this in perspective. All this is also in the affidavit:

drank to excess, became uncontrollable while drunk, had to be taken to the bathroom, frequently engage in "penis tricks", exposed his penis at social events, spoke about sex with inappropriate detail and at inappropriate times

[Jester]

It happened over two years ago. If it affected Jason's parenting ability, why didn't Michelle divorce him? Why didn't Fisher immediately seek emergency temp custody after Michelle's murder?

Who was at the party? What was the occasion? Why did someone care enough to escort Jason to the bathroom but not cover him up if it affected others so "negatively"???

She didn't really get a chance to divorce him, as she was murdered shortly thereafter.

[Jester]

exactly right!

Maybe he was so drunk he peed in his pants, so he was taken to the bathroom to sort things out. Maybe, in his drunken stupor, his solution was to strip naked, and return to the sofa.

[MerriMent]

How would her seeking therapy years later pertain to her mother's alleged adultery? And, how would that play into her murder that the judge ordered the therapist to hand over her records. I do believe you're grasping at straws.

What straws? Her father divorced her mother is fact, that legal grounds were required to be proved is fact, Michelle's therapy is fact and a judge's determination the therapy is important to the murder investigation is fact.

If Michelle witnessed her parent's extramarital escapades or if she was somehow drawn closer into that relationship than she wanted, it could have resulted in issues she needed a therapist to help sort out. That's hardly "straws" in this unsolved murder, imo.

According to New York statutes, adultery can be proved by direct evidence or circumstantial evidence but it must be proved.

In New York, adultery cannot be proved by the confession of the party alone.

In New York, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony because Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.

In New York, other evidence beyond he said/she said is required.

[MerriMent]

I mistakenly thought you were aware of the facts of this discussion. Here's the affidavit that I'm referring to when I discuss possible custodial issues surrounding Young's daughter.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/19/4172400/Fisher_custody_complaint_against_Jason_Young.pdf

fyi: The only affidavit is the one of judicial assignment. Jason has to respond to the actual complaint, not that affidavit.

[Jester]

fyi: The only affidavit is the one of judicial assignment. Jason has to respond to the actual complaint, not that affidavit.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't think he's going to respond, as any response leaves him open to further questioning and a requirement to clarify himself. I'd like him to clarify any claim that he's not the slayer of his wife.

[MerriMent]

Let me get this straight. You are excusing the accused slayer's behavior because he was drunk and it happened too long ago?
Yet you are holding the innocent mother of the victim accountable for a divorce 20 some years ago?
If anything is absurd, it's your argument.

MOO Aggie

I'm not excusing the behavior, I'm saying it lacks relevance.

I will most certainly hold the mother of the victim accountable for her actions if those actions resulted in her daughter seeking therapy years later.

[MerriMent]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't think he's going to respond, as any response leaves him open to further questioning and a requirement to clarify himself. I'd like him to clarify any claim that he's not the slayer of his wife.

I think there will be a response.

[enigma™]

(snipped to address)

In New York, other evidence beyond he said/she said is required.

That's right, and I doubt Michelle waited all those years to see a therapist about her parents divorce. She stayed with her mother after the divorce. It's been said Jason paved the way for a reconciliation between Michelle and Alan. So, what is true here? Did Michelle seek a therapist to reconcile herself to her parents' divorce all those years later, or to reconcile herself to the fact that she, too, married someone less than she wanted in the long run?

[Jester]

I think there will be a response.

What kind of response do you expect? You've said that the affidavit is irrelevant, and that Young doesn't have to respond. You've said that a lawyer can argue something in spite of Young's muteness, but haven't really said what you think will be argued.

My position is that, with custody issues, an affidavit is filed, and the paragraphs of the affidavit require a response. Not addressing each and every point is equal to accepting their content as fact.

Do you think Young will cease to be mute, or do you think his lawyer can ignore the affidavit and get Young out of this situation while Young remains mute?

[enigma™]

What straws? Her father divorced her mother is fact, that legal grounds were required to be proved is fact, Michelle's therapy is fact and a judge's determination the therapy is important to the murder investigation is fact.

If Michelle witnessed her parent's extramarital escapades or if she was somehow drawn closer into that relationship than she wanted, it could have resulted in issues she needed a therapist to help sort out. That's hardly "straws" in this unsolved murder, imo.

According to New York statutes, adultery can be proved by direct evidence or circumstantial evidence but it must be proved.

In New York, adultery cannot be proved by the confession of the party alone.

The divorce laws in NY are quite archaic. I suppose that is why you seem to like them so much. You have to have "grounds" to end something that was never meant to be. How painful for a couple to have to choose which option out of 6 will be most expedient, least painful, and most of all, best for the children. If you look further, you will see a judge, other than the divorce judge, decides on alimony, support and child placement. Funny how Linda ended up with the girls, isn't it, and they were estranged from their father.

In New York, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony because Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.

In New York, other evidence beyond he said/she said is required.

[Jester]

That's right, and I doubt Michelle waited all those years to see a therapist about her parents divorce. She stayed with her mother after the divorce. It's been said Jason paved the way for a reconciliation between Michelle and Alan. So, what is true here? Did Michelle seek a therapist to reconcile herself to her parents' divorce all those years later, or to reconcile herself to the fact that she, too, married someone less than she wanted in the long run?

I think Michelle was seeking support to make decisions about her future. She was a 27 year old professional with a promising future, one toddler, a child on the way, and a husband that was nothing more than an unstable embarrassment. Young was cruel to Michelle, and berated her. We know Young had a girlfriend living in the house while Michelle was pregnant and supporting the family, so it's safe to assume Michelle was not herself. Young probably systematically put Michelle's self-esteem in the trash. She was most likely seeking emotional support in order for her to begin living a life independent of her "penis tricks", drunk, mostly unemployed, sexually inappropriate husband.

[enigma™]

MerriMent said: (some stuff is missing, my stuff got caught in the middle.

...In New York, a spouse cannot prove adultery by his/her direct testimony because Section 4502 of the Civil Practice Law and Rules provides that a spouse is incompetent to testify against the other spouse in a divorce founded upon adultery.

In New York, other evidence beyond he said/she said is required.

I tried to fix this, but for some reason the quote function is dysfunctional. I apologize in advance, and didn't mean to cause you any mental anguish.

I said "The divorce laws in NY are quite archaic. I suppose that is why you seem to like them so much. You have to have "grounds" to end something that was never meant to be. How painful for a couple to have to choose which option out of 6 will be most expedient, least painful, and most of all, best for the children. If you look further, you will see a judge, other than the divorce judge, decides on alimony, support and child placement. Funny how Linda ended up with the girls, isn't it, and they were estranged from their father.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

[MerriMent]

What kind of response do you expect? You've said that the affidavit is irrelevant, and that Young doesn't have to respond. You've said that a lawyer can argue something in spite of Young's muteness, but haven't really said what you think will be argued.

My position is that, with custody issues, an affidavit is filed, and the paragraphs of the affidavit require a response. Not addressing each and every point is equal to accepting their content as fact.

Do you think Young will cease to be mute, or do you think his lawyer can ignore the affidavit and get Young out of this situation while Young remains mute?

All his response has to say is that the allegations are totally without merit.

[enigma™]

All his response has to say is that the allegations are totally without merit.

Seriously? That is all he has to say? If it were that easy, then why did he not address the WDS?

[achristie]

I'm not excusing the behavior, I'm saying it lacks relevance.

I will most certainly hold the mother of the victim accountable for her actions if those actions resulted in her daughter seeking therapy years later.

There you go again. Pulling in something else that is unproven. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Okay. I'll play the game. Will you hold JLY, the slayer of the victim , accountable fo his actions if MY sought therapy because of him?

MOO Aggie

[Jester]

All his response has to say is that the allegations are totally without merit.

Let's suppose that they are totally with merit, and that there is supporting documentation.

Let's suppose there is nothing more than an outright denial during the hearing, but ample evidence to support the affidavit.

Did I read a clause at the top of the document making application for privacy? Maybe there are additional documents available which are not available to the public due to their sensitive nature.

Let's suppose that, if Young intends to do anything, he should be prepared to support his claims. If he claims he is not the slayer, he must be able to support that claim. He was unable to do that for the sake of money, and I doubt he'll be able to do that for the sake of his child.

[MerriMent]

There you go again. Pulling in something else that is unproven. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Okay. I'll play the game. Will you hold JLY, the slayer of the victim , accountable fo his actions if MY sought therapy because of him?

MOO Aggie

Nothing in Fisher's complaint has been proven.

I think Michelle sought therapy for emotional trauma unrelated to her marriage to Jason.

[achristie]

Nothing in Fisher's complaint has been proven.

I think Michelle sought therapy for emotional trauma unrelated to her marriage to Jason.

Okay. But you didn't answer my question.

[enigma™]

There you go again. Pulling in something else that is unproven. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Okay. I'll play the game. Will you hold JLY, the slayer of the victim , accountable fo his actions if MY sought therapy because of him?

MOO Aggie

That would be reasonable, and for some reason, this poster cannot deal with reasonable explanations. If it does not condemn the Fisher women, (which I have no doubt she has never met, nor ever will, unless she's taken to court for ...), then it is of no value to the case. Jason Lynn Young, pronounced "slayer" of Michelle Fisher Young, will do nothing to defend himself in a custody battle. This is my opinion. I believe it to be true, and when he is a no-show in court, I will be vindicated. Me...Me... is not the end all and be all of what will happen in court proceedings. Thank heaven for that!

[Jester]

Nothing in Fisher's complaint has been proven.

I think Michelle sought therapy for emotional trauma unrelated to her marriage to Jason.

Michelle had a couple of University degrees in financial management. She was a mother, and had a promising future by the age of 27. Many 27 year olds are still trying to figure out what they want to be when they grow up.

Michelle was not an emotionally traumatized person. She was successful both academically and socially. She was described as being very thoughtful, never missing anyone's birthday. There was absolutely nothing unstable about her.

Her self-esteem had been destroyed by her marriage, but that hadn't interfered with her parenting, nor her career. Instead, she sought assistance. Within two weeks of seeking assistance, she was found bludgeoned to death in her bedroom with her daughter nearby. Let's keep in mind that his girlfriend was living in the house for about 4 weeks prior to Michelle's murder. Michelle knew she needed some assistance, nothing more.

[enigma™]

[QUOTE=Jester;12565633](sorry to snip, but must address this...)
Did I read a clause at the top of the document making application for privacy? Maybe there are additional documents available which are not available to the public due to their sensitive nature.
[QUOTE]

Could these documents be the therapists notes? I thought only the DA had access to those, or was I mistaken?

Jason is doomed, it is unfortunate there are others that will go down with him, especially Cassidy.

[enigma™]

Nothing in Fisher's complaint has been proven.

I think Michelle sought therapy for emotional trauma unrelated to her marriage to Jason.

Nothing in "Fisher's" complaint has been disproven, either.

Maybe you should not think so much. Maybe there is a more reasonable explanation for Michelle's therapy? Perhaps it really did have something to do with her marriage to Jason, what then?

[Jester]

[QUOTE=Jester;12565633](sorry to snip, but must address this...)
Did I read a clause at the top of the document making application for privacy? Maybe there are additional documents available which are not available to the public due to their sensitive nature.
[QUOTE]

Could these documents be the therapists notes? I thought only the DA had access to those, or was I mistaken?

Jason is doomed, it is unfortunate there are others that will go down with him, especially Cassidy.

I must have been mistaken. I looked at the affidavit again, and I don't see the privacy request. I think there should be a request to have the files sealed because of the sensitive nature.

I think the therapists notes were sealed, but they have been released to the courts/DA and possibly Young.

Cassidy will be all right. Children are resilient, and she still remembers being with her mom ... so she should spend more time with her mom's family to preserve those memories.

[enigma™]

I must have been mistaken. I looked at the affidavit again, and I don't see the privacy request. I think there should be a request to have the files sealed because of the sensitive nature.

I think the therapists notes were sealed, but they have been released to the courts/DA and possibly Young.

Cassidy will be all right. Children are resilient, and she still remembers being with her mom ... so she should spend more time with her mom's family to preserve those memories.

I agree, children are resilient, and most of all, Cassie should spend time with her maternal family. It is beyond my comprehension why any family would want to keep a child away from family, unless there are really horrid mitigating circumstances. It always comes back to haunt. always...

[MerriMent]

Let's suppose that they are totally with merit, and that there is supporting documentation.

Let's suppose there is nothing more than an outright denial during the hearing, but ample evidence to support the affidavit.

Did I read a clause at the top of the document making application for privacy? Maybe there are additional documents available which are not available to the public due to their sensitive nature.

Let's suppose that, if Young intends to do anything, he should be prepared to support his claims. If he claims he is not the slayer, he must be able to support that claim. He was unable to do that for the sake of money, and I doubt he'll be able to do that for the sake of his child.

No, I'm not going to suppose anything is totally of merit nor does Jason have to prove he's innocent of anything. The constitution protects his parental rights.

[Jester]

I agree, children are resilient, and most of all, Cassie should spend time with her maternal family. It is beyond my comprehension why any family would want to keep a child away from family, unless there are really horrid mitigating circumstances. It always comes back to haunt. always...

It would obviously be a healing experience for her to spend some time in a a stable, loving home that reminds her of her mom. The sooner it happens, the better.

[MerriMent]

[QUOTE=enigma™;12565688][QUOTE=Jester;12565633](sorry to snip, but must address this...)
Did I read a clause at the top of the document making application for privacy? Maybe there are additional documents available which are not available to the public due to their sensitive nature.


I must have been mistaken. I looked at the affidavit again, and I don't see the privacy request. I think there should be a request to have the files sealed because of the sensitive nature.

I think the therapists notes were sealed, but they have been released to the courts/DA and possibly Young.

Cassidy will be all right. Children are resilient, and she still remembers being with her mom ... so she should spend more time with her mom's family to preserve those memories.

The only person who gets to choose who Cassidy gets to spend time with is her parent.

The therapist notes were released by court order only to the DA's investigator.

[enigma™]

No, I'm not going to suppose anything is totally of merit nor does Jason have to prove he's innocent of anything. The constitution protects his parental rights.

So, are you saying Jason Lynn Young, "slayer" of Michelle Fisher Young, does not have to address the case that is in his face?

[Jester]

No, I'm not going to suppose anything is totally of merit nor does Jason have to prove he's innocent of anything. The constitution protects his parental rights.

Good. At the same time, neither should you assume that the allegations contained in the affidavit are without merit. If push comes to shove, Young should be prepared, or remain silent. If the allegations are supported, the denials must be equally supported. Would Young risk speaking and face a criminal trial, or would he prefer his freedom?

Let's keep in mind that Cassidy may have been drugged on the night her mother was murdered. She was placed in her parents room and found on her father's side of the bed at noon the next day. Adult medications were found on her dresser. There's a possibility Young would like nothing better than to be free of all responsibility.

[Jester]

[QUOTE=Jester;12565725][QUOTE=enigma™;12565688]

The only person who gets to choose who Cassidy gets to spend time with is her parent.

The therapist notes were released by court order only to the DA's investigator.

It's now in the court's hands, not Young.

[MerriMent]

Michelle had a couple of University degrees in financial management. She was a mother, and had a promising future by the age of 27. Many 27 year olds are still trying to figure out what they want to be when they grow up.

Michelle was not an emotionally traumatized person. She was successful both academically and socially. She was described as being very thoughtful, never missing anyone's birthday. There was absolutely nothing unstable about her.

Her self-esteem had been destroyed by her marriage, but that hadn't interfered with her parenting, nor her career. Instead, she sought assistance. Within two weeks of seeking assistance, she was found bludgeoned to death in her bedroom with her daughter nearby. Let's keep in mind that his girlfriend was living in the house for about 4 weeks prior to Michelle's murder. Michelle knew she needed some assistance, nothing more.

Michelle was 29, not 27 and according to one of her best friends was happily pregnant with her third child and looking forward to cutting back on her career to spend more time as a mother. Does that sound to you like someone who has had her self-esteem destroyed by her marriage?

It is fact that she was seeing a therapist and it is a fact the judge believes it is tied to her murder so your claim she wasn't emotionally traumatized by something outside her marriage isn't really based on anything factual, is it?

I also don't believe for a minute that Jason's "girlfriend was living in the house for about 4 weeks prior to Michelle's murder." That is utterly ridiculous, imo.

[MerriMent]

Good. At the same time, neither should you assume that the allegations contained in the affidavit are without merit. If push comes to shove, Young should be prepared, or remain silent. If the allegations are supported, the denials must be equally supported. Would Young risk speaking and face a criminal trial, or would he prefer his freedom?

Let's keep in mind that Cassidy may have been drugged on the night her mother was murdered. She was placed in her parents room and found on her father's side of the bed at noon the next day. Adult medications were found on her dresser. There's a possibility Young would like nothing better than to be free of all responsibility.

I am allowed to form an opinion that the allegations contained in Fisher's complaint (stop calling it an affidavit, please) are not only without merit, I believe many are fabricated.

It is a civil complaint, not criminal but if there was one shred of evidence Jason wanted to be rid of daughter, CPS would have been called in two years ago by LE.

[enigma™]

[QUOTE=MerriMent;12565757][QUOTE=Jester;12565725]

It's now in the court's hands, not Young.
There is something wrong with the quote function. Those are MerriMents thoughts. I do not want to be responsible for his/her fallacies.

[Jester]

I am allowed to form an opinion that the allegations contained in Fisher's complaint (stop calling it an affidavit, please) are not only without merit, I believe many are fabricated.

It is a civil complaint, not criminal but if there was one shred of evidence Jason wanted to be rid of daughter, CPS would have been called in two years ago by LE.

Page 2/17. Affidavit.

Yes, all opinions.

There is suspicion that he is a murderer, but he is not arrested.
There may be suspicion that he intended a double murder, but not enough for a conviction.

[Jester]

There is something wrong with the quote function ...

Does it work now?

[enigma™]

I am allowed to form an opinion that the allegations contained in Fisher's complaint (stop calling it an affidavit, please) are not only without merit, I believe many are fabricated.

It is a civil complaint, not criminal but if there was one shred of evidence Jason wanted to be rid of daughter, CPS would have been called in two years ago by LE.


You appear, or like to present yourself, as knowledgeable in the application of law for all states. So, let us presume you are Ruth Bader Ginsberg for a moment - then again, let us not. What are your credentials for claiming that Linda Fisher has no claim? Why do you presume Jason did not want to be rid of his daughter? Why do you insist you are always correct? Cassidy's safety is paramount here, and yet you want to protect a court-proclaimed "slayer"? I do not understand your thought process. I have come to the conclusion that you just like to argue for arguments sake, and shall henceforth ignore all your comments. I am sure the moderator will be happy with my decision.

Happy Holidays, Coldwater!

[MerriMent]

I think the complaint reads more like a divorce doc. than a custody complaint. Is adultery grounds for removing a child from its parents? Is getting drunk grounds for removing a child from its parents? There are drug addicts that have custody of their children. LF is grabbing at straws.

I think it reads more of a grandparent visitation complaint.

Adultery is not sufficient grounds for removing a child from her only parent.

Drunkeness is grounds if it is habitual in the presence of the child or the child's safety is endangered. Custody is determined to be what is in the child's best interest.

[MerriMent]

Really? In some circles, drunkenness in parents may be socially acceptable, but I highly doubt someone with two University degrees thought drunkenness was part of her child's life. Adultery is a form of abandonment of both wife and children.

you need to re-read Fisher's complaint because she never accuses Jason of drunken behavior in front of his daughter.

[MerriMent]

So we should clean all the children from homes of parents who get drunk and commit adultery?

The alleged drunken behavior took place while Michelle was alive. Wasn't it up to her to rid her home of such behavior if it was detrimental to her child? Instead, she choose to have another child with Jason and had plans to stay more at home to care for her kids.

[Jester]

you need to re-read Fisher's complaint because she never accuses Jason of drunken behavior in front of his daughter.

How does it matter? Not seeing doesn't mean it isn't happening.

He is known to abuse alcohol. That much appears to be documented. After the murder of his wife, he has not been able to hold a job, is living with various relatives, and does not appear to be able to provide a stable home for his daughter.

It's possible that he's drinking while he's not working, but we don't know that. He may be on vacation in Puerto Rico again, balancing on the edge of a crevasse.

[Jester]

The alleged drunken behavior took place while Michelle was alive. Wasn't it up to her to rid her home of such behavior if it was detrimental to her child? Instead, she choose to have another child with Jason and had plans to stay more at home to care for her kids.

I think you're mistaken. The party was at another house, and she didn't attend. She must have heard the stories.

The party was a few months after she was pregnant with Rylan, and she was pregnant shortly after the the car accident miscarriage.

The party was around a month before she was murdered, I think. Maybe someone else remembers better than I.

[kingbuff]

How does it matter? Not seeing doesn't mean it isn't happening.

He is known to abuse alcohol. That much appears to be documented. After the murder of his wife, he has not been able to hold a job, is living with various relatives, and does not appear to be able to provide a stable home for his daughter.

It's possible that he's drinking while he's not working, but we don't know that. He may be on vacation in Puerto Rico again, balancing on the edge of a crevasse.

It's possible the novo board will show up in court, along with some of the identfied posters. What a kick! The judge will get to see why the filth and garbage caused Jason to leave his job. Some newspaper editors also saved some ugly emails they received about Jason. The judge might like to hear from their writers.

[MerriMent]

I think you're mistaken. The party was at another house, and she didn't attend. She must have heard the stories.

The party was a few months after she was pregnant with Rylan, and she was pregnant shortly after the the car accident miscarriage.

The party was around a month before she was murdered, I think. Maybe someone else remembers better than I.

It was still Michelle's role as mother to protect her child if she thought Jason's drunkenness was a danger to the child. She didn't.

And, yes, she was pregnant with her THIRD child and there is absolutely no evidence that she wanted to end her marriage. It's a tad late for Fisher to claim over two years later that same incident should result in a court-ordered psych evaluation of Jason. I'm sorta shocked her attorney insults the judge and wants to waste her time with that nonsense.

[MerriMent]

It's possible the novo board will show up in court, along with some of the identfied posters. What a kick! The judge will get to see why the filth and garbage caused Jason to leave his job. Some newspaper editors also saved some ugly emails they received about Jason. The judge might like to hear from their writers.

now THAT would be interesting!!

[Jester]

It's possible the novo board will show up in court, along with some of the identfied posters. What a kick! The judge will get to see why the filth and garbage caused Jason to leave his job. Some newspaper editors also saved some ugly emails they received about Jason. The judge might like to hear from their writers.

Thanks. I didn't know that. If the comments are true and accurate, then no problem. If Jason's dismissal was based on the fact that he refused to respond to the released information about his DNA on the wall, then it's irrelevant. No company would want an employee that would not speak up on his own behalf, or on behalf of the company. If Jason remained mute regarding the murder allegations, then he was a risk as an employee.

I'm sure relevant facts, including email, will become public if relevant, or have influence, on the investigation. Are you sure your own name won't come up here and there, or is that not a problem due to accuracy of statements?

[Jester]

It was still Michelle's role as mother to protect her child if she thought Jason's drunkenness was a danger to the child. She didn't.

And, yes, she was pregnant with her THIRD child and there is absolutely no evidence that she wanted to end her marriage. It's a tad late for Fisher to claim over two years later that same incident should result in a court-ordered psych evaluation of Jason. I'm sorta shocked her attorney insults the judge and wants to waste her time with that nonsense.

It's possible that she was murdered within 3 weeks of seeking help to protect her unborn child. She was unable to protect him, but Cassidy survived in spite of possible drugging.

There may be evidence that she was preparing to end her marriage. Meredith was living in a house nearby, financed by their mom, and Michelle would have been financially stable while pregnant and with a toddler. Her family had set up a net to catch her if she asked for help.

Young hasn't changed, so it doesn't really matter if the psych eval is two years after his last reported incident of cruelty to women.

[kingbuff]

I agree, children are resilient, and most of all, Cassie should spend time with her maternal family. It is beyond my comprehension why any family would want to keep a child away from family, unless there are really horrid mitigating circumstances. It always comes back to haunt. always...

Hi, Enigma. To keep Linda away from Cassie, a Brevard judge might issue a restraining order. If Linda tries to sneak into the daycare again, she would be arrested. If Meredith shows up displaying another photo of Cassie on the internet, she would be arrested. It should take care of your horrid mitigating circumstances and destroy the dangerous stalkers. You think it's a good idea?

[kingbuff]

It's possible that she was murdered within 3 weeks of seeking help to protect her unborn child. She was unable to protect him, but Cassidy survived in spite of possible drugging.

There may be evidence that she was preparing to end her marriage. Meredith was living in a house nearby, financed by their mom, and Michelle would have been financially stable while pregnant and with a toddler. Her family had set up a net to catch her if she asked for help.

Young hasn't changed, so it doesn't really matter if the psych eval is two years after his last reported incident of cruelty to women.

Now wait a minute. ha ha ha ha. You're pulling our collective legs again. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Meredith was to be Michelle's safety net? Ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha. Thanks for the memories!!!

[kingbuff]

Doesn'[t sound like anyone I know personally. But I am curious. Did you on purpose describe not Jason but someone else in this case? Now why would you do that?

[enigma™]

The alleged drunken behavior took place while Michelle was alive. Wasn't it up to her to rid her home of such behavior if it was detrimental to her child? Instead, she choose to have another child with Jason and had plans to stay more at home to care for her kids.


The "alleged" drunken behavior took place when Michelle was alive.' enough said. She "choose" - what did Michelle "choose" to do? Have another child? be raped by her slayer? Who are you to say what she "chose" to do? Rid her home? What is she, an exterminator?

[enigma™]

Hi, Enigma. To keep Linda away from Cassie, a Brevard judge might issue a restraining order. If Linda tries to sneak into the daycare again, she would be arrested. If Meredith shows up displaying another photo of Cassie on the internet, she would be arrested. It should take care of your horrid mitigating circumstances and destroy the dangerous stalkers. You think it's a good idea?


kingbuff, there will be no restraining orders. Linda never streaked in any daycares and Meredith is not the one that placed photos of Cassidy on the internet. Why do you make it your job to interject, introspect and misdirect any valid information? How does this make you, or your information, valid?

[Jester]

Doesn'[t sound like anyone I know personally. But I am curious. Did you on purpose describe not Jason but someone else in this case? Now why would you do that?

Wasn't that a clinical definition of exhibitionism? Is there a reason you associate Jason with this definition?

[Cardinal]

Hi Anna, My first thought is she came forward after Michelle's death but if this is the same woman he later had a relationship; would she have come forward and then started a relationship knowing all that she knew about him?

If all of the allegations are true and with all of this bad behavior just before Michelle's murder I am again wondering who acts this way while planning to kill their wife?

If this wasn't real life it would start to sound like a really bad soap opera.

Sils


Hi, Sils. I was in and out yesterday, and missed your post. I've had the same thoughts, particularly about the really bad soap opera - one that, sadly, it seems Michelle was living.

And I agree that it doesn't sound premeditated. I've never been convinced it was. The more that comes to light, the more I think that Michelle was preparing to divorce Jason, and that, if he killed her, it resulted from a confrontation on the phone that night that caused him to return home, where things got out of control.

Despite Jason's apparent penchant for the bachelor lifestyle, I don't think he wanted a divorce. I think he wanted the best of both worlds and the responsibilities of neither.

JMO

[annalyzer]

But it was at a party - i.e., a place with many people in attendance. He saw what was going on once he exited the bathroom naked. He proceeeded to sit on the sofa - nude - like it was all fun and games. And pardon me, but if he was that drunk, that he didn't know where he was, didn't care if he was naked, didn't care if he affected anyone negatively, then he has some serious issues that need to be addressed. That is one kind of drunk I never want to meet in my lifetime - call it black-out, call it whatever you want, the man has alcohol issues. THAT, in and of itself, is reason for the judge to take a closer look at his parenting ability/skills.


Oh please. I'm starting to agree with the others about grasping at straws.

My question is why didn't LF list Jason leaving his child alone for 8 hours with her mother's dead body?

[Cardinal]

Oh please. I'm starting to agree with the others about grasping at straws.

My question is why didn't LF list Jason leaving his child alone for 8 hours with her mother's dead body?

Maybe he didn't? Maybe he called for backup.

[annalyzer]

Maybe he didn't? Maybe he called for backup.


And the Fisher's would know this how?

[annalyzer]

Card, he has already been ruled his wife's slayer. Whoever killed Michelle left that child alone with her mother's dead body for hours. There is no proof or evidence otherwise. So why not list that against Jason?

[Cardinal]

Card, he has already been ruled his wife's slayer. Whoever killed Michelle left that child alone with her mother's dead body for hours. There is no proof or evidence otherwise. So why not list that against Jason?

That's a really good question, Anna, and I don't have an answer.

But I'm starting to think more and more that LE has something to indicate an accomplice, and they're trying to flush him/her out.

JMO

[annalyzer]

Once again, you’re going with the ala carte menu. Sorry, that will not work.

The lewd exposure and genital manipulation in front of unknown and unsuspecting persons is not a harmless act. (Yes Virginia, he even did this around people that he didn’t know. Sorry, about the Virginia reference. I’m just in the Christmas spirit) In fact, I believe that it is a good example of someone forcing a sexual act on others. No, it’s not rape. But it is performing sexually towards others who are not welcoming the activity.

The lewd comments towards the co-workers would fall under the same category. An unwanted sexual activity. This would be a sign of aggression IMO.

Then you have the multiple affairs. As if the adultery is not bad enough, he has an affairs with his wife’s sorority sister and another unnamed woman who he brings into his home and around Michelle’s daughter. This is very aggressive and seems to show contempt and aggression towards Michelle. However, I’m sure that you would describe it as everyday merriment and being a naughty little scamp.


It has been allegated but not proven that he had an affair with this woman. I'm not saying that it's not true and it certainly is possible but it has not been proven to be a fact.

[kingbuff]

Once again, you’re going with the ala carte menu. Sorry, that will not work.

The lewd exposure and genital manipulation in front of unknown and unsuspecting persons is not a harmless act. (Yes Virginia, he even did this around people that he didn’t know. Sorry, about the Virginia reference. I’m just in the Christmas spirit) In fact, I believe that it is a good example of someone forcing a sexual act on others. No, it’s not rape. But it is performing sexually towards others who are not welcoming the activity.

The lewd comments towards the co-workers would fall under the same category. An unwanted sexual activity. This would be a sign of aggression IMO.

Then you have the multiple affairs. As if the adultery is not bad enough, he has an affairs with his wife’s sorority sister and another unnamed woman who he brings into his home and around Michelle’s daughter. This is very aggressive and seems to show contempt and aggression towards Michelle. However, I’m sure that you would describe it as everyday merriment and being a naughty little scamp.

Yes, Virginia, that's where he said he was that horrid night.

The only affair was with MM.

Spivey thinks Jason killed Michelle or conspired to do it. Spivey persuaded Linda and Meredith to help put pressure on Jason. They probably already regret their foolish actions.

Jason has had wise counsel throughout this ordeal. I think he is still following this advice. I think the killers are known and will be prosecuted. The goal is still justice for Michelle.

[Jester]

Yes, Virginia, that's where he said he was that horrid night.

The only affair was with MM.

Spivey thinks Jason killed Michelle or conspired to do it. Spivey persuaded Linda and Meredith to help put pressure on Jason. They probably already regret their foolish actions.

Jason has had wise counsel throughout this ordeal. I think he is still following this advice. I think the killers are known and will be prosecuted. The goal is still justice for Michelle.

The only affair that you now accept, and which you know of, is with MM. According to the affidavit, another woman will be named during the custody trial. I guess that will be as much a surprise for you as it will for the rest of the world.

Do you think Jason's wise counsel will remain mute for the custody hearing like they did for the wrongful death suit hearing?

[BSNBREVARDNC]

Yes, Virginia, that's where he said he was that horrid night.

The only affair was with MM.

Spivey thinks Jason killed Michelle or conspired to do it. Spivey persuaded Linda and Meredith to help put pressure on Jason. They probably already regret their foolish actions.

Jason has had wise counsel throughout this ordeal. I think he is still following this advice. I think the killers are known and will be prosecuted. The goal is still justice for Michelle.

I think Jason’s attorney thinks Jason killed Michelle and that is the reason he has advised him not to talk. I think you don’t care if Jason killed Michelle just as long as he doesn’t get arrested for it. I think you and Merriment never answer direct questions and don’t put information and facts into any context. You try and make each aspect of the case against Jason into a stand alone issue when it’s not. I think you try and divert attention away from the pie by only looking at a very thin slice.

I wonder how well you and the SIL will look when you are subpoenaed as examples of the people that Jason has as friends. What do you think the judge will say when she reads some of the lewd post from the two of you? Friends with lewd postings coupled with Jason’s lewd activities should make for an interesting opinion from the judge. And yes, I would love to see a Transylvania judge brought in on this case. Can you imagine the local coverage when all the sorted details of Jason’s activities are discussed in public? I can see it now.

“Who is the lady wearing the hooded coat, shades, and holding an open umbrella, trying to shield her face?” “Oh, that’s Mrs. Young. She has chronic embarrassment and hates to show her face in Brevard.”

See, there is something we agree on. We both would like to see the dirty laundry in this case displayed right here. Maybe we cab sit in the court room together. I would love to see the look on your face when our neighbors hear about Jason’s lewd activities first hand. Transylvania County is a little bit more conservative than Raleigh. Some of Jason’s antics may be common place there, but not here.

[BSNBREVARDNC]

The only affair that you now accept, and which you know of, is with MM. According to the affidavit, another woman will be named during the custody trial. I guess that will be as much a surprise for you as it will for the rest of the world.

Do you think Jason's wise counsel will remain mute for the custody hearing like they did for the wrongful death suit hearing?

Remember, he tried to make everyone believe that the MM affair was a lie also. It turned out that he was the one being deceitful. I bet that is the case now as well.

[Jester]

Remember, he tried to make everyone believe that the MM affair was a lie also. It turned out that he was the one being deceitful. I bet that is the case now as well.

I remember well the twistings of the words "romantic relationship". I also remember one newspaper edited their article about the "romantic relationship", changing it to "relationship". There was speculation that a friend of the Youngs had requested that the word "romantic" be removed from the news report.

I also remember the many discussions suggesting that a relationship was not really a relationship, but rather a friendship. Daily emails, texting, and phone calls were described as normal between a married man and his wife's friend.

I suppose if one considers p-tricks as normal, it's not much of a stretch to think excessive contact between a married man and his wife's friend is normal.

[Leanne Weich]

Yes, Virginia, that's where he said he was that horrid night.

The only affair was with MM.

Spivey thinks Jason killed Michelle or conspired to do it. Spivey persuaded Linda and Meredith to help put pressure on Jason. They probably already regret their foolish actions.

Jason has had wise counsel throughout this ordeal. I think he is still following this advice. I think the killers are known and will be prosecuted. The goal is still justice for Michelle.

Well, I hope Jason didn't pay too much for his counsel as, quite clearly, he was either given bad counsel or took keeping his mouth shut a tad too far by ignoring the WDS. That certainly was not a brilliant legal manouver.

Linda and Meredith took brilliant legal counsel in doing what they did and I will predict they have again done the same thing. Nothing foolish about it. The only foolish thing happening at the moment is the people trying to spin nefarious actions into what the Fisher women are trying to do to honor their dead loved one and ensure that another young child grows up to be a strong and well adjusted young woman.

[Leanne Weich]

Merriment

I did read a post from you last night, which I haven't found again about my knowledge on law extending to S.A. and Australia and not America. Bear in mind, that my legal knowledge has provided me with the ability to research the laws all over the World.

Given my lack of knowledge of US Law, my batting average is still not bad and I stand by my assertions of what will happen in the TC case as I did in the WDS.

I'd appreciate it, although I don't expect it to happen, if you would not use my not having legal experience in the States as a means of attempting to belittle my opinions on this case. Even if every opinion I have is way off base, they are mine and I'm every bit as entitled to them as any other poster on this forum.

[awareness]

So clear to all of us now, more than ever, that Jason killed Michelle & Rylan.

RIP

[kingbuff]

The only affair that you now accept, and which you know of, is with MM. According to the affidavit, another woman will be named during the custody trial. I guess that will be as much a surprise for you as it will for the rest of the world.

Do you think Jason's wise counsel will remain mute for the custody hearing like they did for the wrongful death suit hearing?

I know the other woman. So did Michelle. It's not what Spivey and Linda claim.

[kingbuff]

I think Jason’s attorney thinks Jason killed Michelle and that is the reason he has advised him not to talk. I think you don’t care if Jason killed Michelle just as long as he doesn’t get arrested for it. I think you and Merriment never answer direct questions and don’t put information and facts into any context. You try and make each aspect of the case against Jason into a stand alone issue when it’s not. I think you try and divert attention away from the pie by only looking at a very thin slice.

I wonder how well you and the SIL will look when you are subpoenaed as examples of the people that Jason has as friends. What do you think the judge will say when she reads some of the lewd post from the two of you? Friends with lewd postings coupled with Jason’s lewd activities should make for an interesting opinion from the judge. And yes, I would love to see a Transylvania judge brought in on this case. Can you imagine the local coverage when all the sorted details of Jason’s activities are discussed in public? I can see it now.

“Who is the lady wearing the hooded coat, shades, and holding an open umbrella, trying to shield her face?” “Oh, that’s Mrs. Young. She has chronic embarrassment and hates to show her face in Brevard.”

See, there is something we agree on. We both would like to see the dirty laundry in this case displayed right here. Maybe we cab sit in the court room together. I would love to see the look on your face when our neighbors hear about Jason’s lewd activities first hand. Transylvania County is a little bit more conservative than Raleigh. Some of Jason’s antics may be common place there, but not here.

You're right. I don't answer direct questions. Merriment does. The only stand alone issue I'm interested in is who killed Michelle. You go ahead and gossip about sex and the other stuff. You're good at it.

[Jester]

I know the other woman. So did Michelle. It's not what Spivey and Linda claim.

Unless Jason was hiding this particular mistress in the attic, Michelle would have known her.

Are you saying that Linda is suggesting that Michelle did not know the mistress, or that Michelle didn't know her husband was having a second "romantic relationship" right under her nose?

[katy1974]

I think Jason’s attorney thinks Jason killed Michelle and that is the reason he has advised him not to talk. I think you don’t care if Jason killed Michelle just as long as he doesn’t get arrested for it. I think you and Merriment never answer direct questions and don’t put information and facts into any context. You try and make each aspect of the case against Jason into a stand alone issue when it’s not. I think you try and divert attention away from the pie by only looking at a very thin slice.

I wonder how well you and the SIL will look when you are subpoenaed as examples of the people that Jason has as friends. What do you think the judge will say when she reads some of the lewd post from the two of you? Friends with lewd postings coupled with Jason’s lewd activities should make for an interesting opinion from the judge. And yes, I would love to see a Transylvania judge brought in on this case. Can you imagine the local coverage when all the sorted details of Jason’s activities are discussed in public? I can see it now.

“Who is the lady wearing the hooded coat, shades, and holding an open umbrella, trying to shield her face?” “Oh, that’s Mrs. Young. She has chronic embarrassment and hates to show her face in Brevard.”

See, there is something we agree on. We both would like to see the dirty laundry in this case displayed right here. Maybe we cab sit in the court room together. I would love to see the look on your face when our neighbors hear about Jason’s lewd activities first hand. Transylvania County is a little bit more conservative than Raleigh. Some of Jason’s antics may be common place there, but not here.

Truthfully Jason's lewd and lascivious displays could land him in more legal troubles if any unsuspecting persons wanted to go that route!
Wake county or Transylvania county, either one, people will see this for what it is, the unwrapping(pardon the pun) of a very sick and twisted mind.

[Jester]

You're right. I don't answer direct questions. Merriment does. The only stand alone issue I'm interested in is who killed Michelle. You go ahead and gossip about sex and the other stuff. You're good at it.

I'm curious. It turned out the romantic relationship was fact, and that gave you reason to make it seem like you think adultery is okay. If the allegations about inappropriate sexual behavior turn out to be true, will it matter to you?

[katy1974]

So clear to all of us now, more than ever, that Jason killed Michelle & Rylan.

RIP

Yes it is.

[JHP]

I know the other woman. So did Michelle. It's not what Spivey and Linda claim.

Do tell, what is it then?

[bookie]

The "alleged" drunken behavior took place when Michelle was alive.' enough said. She "choose" - what did Michelle "choose" to do? Have another child? be raped by her slayer? Who are you to say what she "chose" to do? Rid her home? What is she, an exterminator?



So now you expect us to believe Jason raped her and not only chose to keep the baby but stayed with a man who raped her???

[Lindsey]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.

[bookie]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.




Would you pm the link to me please?

[Wyn]

Snipped...........


I wonder how well you and the SIL will look when you are subpoenaed as examples of the people that Jason has as friends. What do you think the judge will say when she reads some of the lewd post from the two of you? Friends with lewd postings coupled with Jason’s lewd activities should make for an interesting opinion from the judge. And yes, I would love to see a Transylvania judge brought in on this case. Can you imagine the local coverage when all the sorted details of Jason’s activities are discussed in public? I can see it now.




It's always so interesting not to read here for awhile and then catch up on the ridiculous postings by those who think they are legal experts, those who think calling the victim's family's actions foolish makes some sort of difference when in reality only shows more desperation, it's amazing.

BS-I think you may be right about certain people being subpoenaed but I doubt it will be as character witnesses. If Jason does have an attorney and does his homework, these are the people that he will try to keep as far away from Jason and a Wake County court room as he can. I look forward to any Novo discussion board info also. After all, one regular poster here was repeatedly discussed and attacked by several non-Novo employees who posted there. If they are looking at those, then there must be some fear spreading right now.

Most posters seem to forget that the only "bad" information/lies that has been spread here, and on other boards, has either been posted by one of two people. One is the SIL of of the other one. And that SIL is the one who repeatedly bragged about hiring a PI to investigate the Fishers. Now, a BIG question that's going to come up is, does he have a dog in this fight? I think not, unless he's involved somehow. What was his motive for spreading the lies and nasty rumors about people HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW?

Right now, I think there are a few of Jason friends/supporters who are scurrying back under their rocks and hoping that light doesn't shine on them. Except for one. He's just helping dig Jason's grave. I really am starting to enjoy this, as someone pointed out, it's like a soap opera. And we know who the bad guys are, too bad they turned out to be Southerners. I wouldn't want everyone to think they're typical with their lack of morals and white trash mentality, because they aren't.

[MerriMent]

Merriment

I did read a post from you last night, which I haven't found again about my knowledge on law extending to S.A. and Australia and not America. Bear in mind, that my legal knowledge has provided me with the ability to research the laws all over the World.

Given my lack of knowledge of US Law, my batting average is still not bad and I stand by my assertions of what will happen in the TC case as I did in the WDS.

I'd appreciate it, although I don't expect it to happen, if you would not use my not having legal experience in the States as a means of attempting to belittle my opinions on this case. Even if every opinion I have is way off base, they are mine and I'm every bit as entitled to them as any other poster on this forum.

If you do that well at legal research, why haven't you figured out that Linda Fisher has not requested emergency temporary custody?

[Wyn]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.


Of course most of the allegations of wrong doing would be incidents that occurred while Michelle was still alive. After Michelle's murder, Jason ran to Brevard and his social life was drastically reduced. His party friends were all here and he couldn't actually go out and have fun in Brevard, now could he? Grieving widower that he was. :rolleyes:

I guess there's no way for us to know if the Fishers knew ALL of this was going on but I believe Meredith was aware of some it because she knew they were having problems. Hindsight is 20/20.

Very few people take a two year old with them on a short business trip. You do remember that initially she didn't intend to be gone as long as she was? She probably wished she had of brung Cassidy once her trip was extended. One would hope that Jason stepped up and cared for his daugher while Michelle was out of town but I'm sure Meredith probably helped out.

We know that Jason didn't POST pictures of Cassidy as "date bait", he did use them as "date bait" by emailing them to a woman he found on Craigslist. Are you inferring that Meredith used pictures of Cassidy as "date bait"? If so, why not post the link?

[annalyzer]

Of course most of the allegations of wrong doing would be incidents that occurred while Michelle was still alive. After Michelle's murder, Jason ran to Brevard and his social life was drastically reduced. His party friends were all here and he couldn't actually go out and have fun in Brevard, now could he? Grieving widower that he was. :rolleyes:

I guess there's no way for us to know if the Fishers knew ALL of this was going on but I believe Meredith was aware of some it because she knew they were having problems. Hindsight is 20/20.

Very few people take a two year old with them on a short business trip. You do remember that initially she didn't intend to be gone as long as she was? She probably wished she had of brung Cassidy once her trip was extended. One would hope that Jason stepped up and cared for his daugher while Michelle was out of town but I'm sure Meredith probably helped out.

We know that Jason didn't POST pictures of Cassidy as "date bait", he did use them as "date bait" by emailing them to a woman he found on Craigslist. Are you inferring that Meredith used pictures of Cassidy as "date bait"? If so, why not post the link?

IIRC Meredith posted a picture of herself with Cassidy on her myspace page. (I think it was myspace)

As far as Meredith being aware of problems between Jason and Michelle, I wonder what Jason meant when he said Meredith was "counseling" him regarding Michelle? (That was stated in a sw taken from an email with MM iirc.)

[MerriMent]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.

Hi, Lindsey. At one time it was linked here to Meredith's Myspace and it included a recent photo of herself with Cassidy. She certainly wanted to flaunt it publicly with no regard to the child's privacy. I find such behavior far more troubling than a man getting drunk at a houseparty amongst friends. And back to that photo on myspace, Meredith had a history of pushing Michelle's buttons. According to a recent search warrant, Meredith sided with Jason in a disagreement he was having with Michelle and I wonder how hurtful that was to Michelle. And now Meredith wants Michelle's daughter for herself. Is Meredith still trying to push Michelle's buttons? Michelle supposedly named Heather, not Meredith as guardian in her Will. For some reason, Michelle stopped using her sister as a nanny.

You're right, so many unanswered questions on why Michelle did what she did. I hope we find answers soon.

[Wyn]

:biggrin::biggrin:IIRC Meredith posted a picture of herself with Cassidy on her myspace page. (I think it was myspace)

As far as Meredith being aware of problems between Jason and Michelle, I wonder what Jason meant when he said Meredith was "counseling" him regarding Michelle? (That was stated in a sw taken from an email with MM iirc.)


A picture of a loving aunt with her neice is a far cry from her father emailing pictures of her to lure potential dates. Did you know that Meredith was/is her favorite aunt? Still. :biggrin:

[MerriMent]

:biggrin::biggrin:


A picture of a loving aunt with her neice is a far cry from her father emailing pictures of her to lure potential dates. Did you know that Meredith was/is her favorite aunt? Still. :biggrin:

Meredith posted the photo on the Internet on her own profile but she didn't say the child was her niece. Anyone seeing it would assume it was her child. Was she using it as date bait?

[MerriMent]

Murder in the childs home of the childs mother certainly is grounds, along with LEAVING THE CHILD IN THAT HOME WITH HER DEAD MOTHER FOR HOURS, not to mention home ALONE for hours at 2 years of age. That alone should seal that deal, of course all the other crap levied against Jason Young will finish him off. BTW, what credible law firm would stand for Linda Fisher making things up in her claim of unfit parent ? None, thats who.

Really no need for you to shout but Fisher's complaint made no mention of Cassidy being left alone with her dead mother for hours. I guess she plumb forgot to mention it. A credible law firm isn't going to know Fisher is making up claims. I think Jason's more credible law firm might helpfully point it out, however.:thumbsup:

[Jester]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.

Isn't it possible that Michelle seeking help from the psychological services provided through her company was based on her trying to escape from an abusive marriage and protect her children?

Are you saying that, although Young has had no contact with Meredith, he emailed her the pictures, or are you suggesting that Meredith took the pictures?

[Wyn]

Meredith posted the photo on the Internet on her own profile but she didn't say the child was her niece. Anyone seeing it would assume it was her child. Was she using it as date bait?


Anyone who had a legitimate reason to look at her profile, such as her friends and relatives ,would know who she was. Are you upset that Meredith didn't identify her to strangers such as yourself? :laugh:

[MerriMent]

IIRC Meredith posted a picture of herself with Cassidy on her myspace page. (I think it was myspace)

As far as Meredith being aware of problems between Jason and Michelle, I wonder what Jason meant when he said Meredith was "counseling" him regarding Michelle? (That was stated in a sw taken from an email with MM iirc.)

Yes, I saw myspace postings as well.

I took the search warrant reference to mean Meredith was siding with Jason in an argument he was having with Michelle. I'd like to know what Michelle's reaction was and did she view it as her sister's betrayal.

[MerriMent]

Anyone who had a legitimate reason to look at her profile, such as her friends and relatives ,would know who she was. Are you upset that Meredith didn't identify her to strangers such as yourself? :laugh:

No, I'm upset she publicly exploited someone else's child for her own agenda. I think Meredith is the one in need of a psych evaluation.

[Jester]

If you do that well at legal research, why haven't you figured out that Linda Fisher has not requested emergency temporary custody?

You seem to strenuously object to this recent application for custody. At the very least, Cassidy will be granted generous and specific visitation with her mother's extended family. You're not taking the position that this isn't in Cassidy's best interests, are you?

I simply don't understand your objections. If a judge decides that Cassidy's best interests are served with her mother's extended family, how is that a problem?

[JHP]

Really no need for you to shout but Fisher's complaint made no mention of Cassidy being left alone with her dead mother for hours. I guess she plumb forgot to mention it. A credible law firm isn't going to know Fisher is making up claims. I think Jason's more credible law firm might helpfully point it out, however.:thumbsup:

And this would be the law firm of? That law firm didn't even bother to answer the slayer charge.
Oh well, maybe the'll be just as involved in the custody suit. It will be interesting to see what the next few weeks bring.

JMO

[Jester]

Hi, Lindsey. At one time it was linked here to Meredith's Myspace and it included a recent photo of herself with Cassidy. She certainly wanted to flaunt it publicly with no regard to the child's privacy. I find such behavior far more troubling than a man getting drunk at a houseparty amongst friends. And back to that photo on myspace, Meredith had a history of pushing Michelle's buttons. According to a recent search warrant, Meredith sided with Jason in a disagreement he was having with Michelle and I wonder how hurtful that was to Michelle. And now Meredith wants Michelle's daughter for herself. Is Meredith still trying to push Michelle's buttons? Michelle supposedly named Heather, not Meredith as guardian in her Will. For some reason, Michelle stopped using her sister as a nanny.

You're right, so many unanswered questions on why Michelle did what she did. I hope we find answers soon.

Do tell. What sinister meaning do you see behind a woman posting a family photo on myspace. Isn't myspace based on posting personal and family photos? What sinister meaning is behind Cassidy attending daycare?

[Leanne Weich]

I'm sorry but nudity is not deviant behavior. The incident described in Fisher's complaint took place in a private home in front of friends. I'm fairly sure you weren't there. The country YOU reside in has public beaches that allow nudity. If nudity offends you, don't go there but to proclaim those who do are engaged in deviant behavior is sanctimonious hyperbole, imo.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24705758-5002031,00.html

Nudity, per se, does not offend me. I would, however, be greatly offended if a guest at a party I hosted wandered, staggered (use whichever word you'd like to describe) into my living room naked and sat down on a sofa in front of my guests. I can guarantee you that would be the last party he ever attended at my home. You may consider it sanctimonious hyperbole but I consider it deviant behavior and, although I was clothed, I have visited a nude beach in more than one country, purely out of curiosity and it is not something I'd do again and not because I'm a prude (far from it) but it is not something I feel the need to do. You cannot compare a nude beach with a partygoer suddenly appearing nude in the home of a "friend".

[Jester]

Meredith posted the photo on the Internet on her own profile but she didn't say the child was her niece. Anyone seeing it would assume it was her child. Was she using it as date bait?

What is your point? So some woman posted some family picture on her myspace page. She's using the page exactly as intended, and similar to millions of other people.

How is this a problem?

[Kat4Eagles]

Oh please. I'm starting to agree with the others about grasping at straws.

My question is why didn't LF list Jason leaving his child alone for 8 hours with her mother's dead body?


I can see I have a lot of catching up to do, but if we are to believe that LF knew even some of these "allegations" months ago, and did nothing to remove C before this, then that in itself is sickening.

She had no trouble filing a wrongful death suit though, did she.?

And, only after that was done, did she get around to trying to rescue C.!!

When this is something I have been whining about for months now, the removal and the safety of the child, IF things were that bad.

Why now?

I hope the Judge presents her with that very question, why did you wait so long if you believed your granddaughter was living with a murderer or unfit parent?

I would love to hear the answer.


:rolleyes:
Kat

[Wyn]

Yes, I saw myspace postings as well.

I took the search warrant reference to mean Meredith was siding with Jason in an argument he was having with Michelle. I'd like to know what Michelle's reaction was and did she view it as her sister's betrayal.

You're so funny! :laugh:

[Jester]

Yes, I saw myspace postings as well.

I took the search warrant reference to mean Meredith was siding with Jason in an argument he was having with Michelle. I'd like to know what Michelle's reaction was and did she view it as her sister's betrayal.

Now why would leap to conclusions of conflict and betrayal?

[Kat4Eagles]

Disgusting describes JY to a T.

How anyone can still be defending him is beyond me.



Because these sound like desperate rumors to hurt his character and take C away from him.

And, mostly cause they can not get enough to arrest him, so they can
try and humilate, embarrass, and anything else to make up for that one simple fact.

No arrest.

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

If you do that well at legal research, why haven't you figured out that Linda Fisher has not requested emergency temporary custody?

Quite possibly because her attorneys advised her against it after the intervening period between Michelle's death and now - they wouldn't want her to come off as a vexatious litigant; alternatively, she could have lodged a complaint with CPS citing that JY has been declared the slayer of the child's mother and asking them to investigate Cassidy's safety. Lastly (as of right now and not having given it too much thought), Linda's attorneys are likely preparing sworn Affidavits from many people to be filed supplementally to the complaint, which will take quite some time.

I will predict though that should Jason say anything similar to "those women will never get custody of my daughter" to anyone, I'd expect an urgent Ex Parte Action to be instituted forthwith.

As I said, these are a few of my thoughts just off the top of my head, in no particular order and there could well be more.

[Kat4Eagles]

I've seen no evidence Jason is an unfit parent or that CY is living in an "improper environment"


The day care C attends should be able to answer some of these questions, don't you think?

Kat

[Wyn]

I can see I have a lot of catching up to do, but if we are to believe that LF knew even some of these "allegations" months ago, and did nothing to remove C before this, then that in itself is sickening.

She had no trouble filing a wrongful death suit though, did she.?

And, only after that was done, did she get around to trying to rescue C.!!

When this is something I have been whining about for months now, the removal and the safety of the child, IF things were that bad.

Why now?

I hope the Judge presents her with that very question, why did you wait so long if you believed your granddaughter was living with a murderer or unfit parent?

I would love to hear the answer.


:rolleyes:
Kat

Here's an answer. You have to follow the law, Kat. Sorry you don't understand how things have to work, legally.

With you and some other posters it's "Damned if you do, damned if you don't". You all kept saying Jason was wonderful, Cassidy was happy, no reason for the Fishers to attempt gain custody. How could they even consider it, how horrible if they did. Now you all have flipped and said why didn't they take her sooner, why leave her in this horrible situation....blah, blah, blah. What it comes down to is whatever you all can say against the Fishers, no matter the situation, that's the side you will argue.

The interesting part is, the Fishers didn't KNOW ALL of what was going on until after the murder. Do you think that Jason's former friends were telling anyone BEFORE Jason murdered Michelle the kinds of things he did? Nope. They take on a new light once someone dies. You also all like to conveniently forget that they have to do things legally. Everything is being done by the book, and Jason will lose. First he lost the WD Suit, next he will lose custody of Cassidy, and eventually he will lose his freedom.

[Kat4Eagles]

I just read their allegations and I'm now convinced they are both nuts.


I'm sorry, but that was funny.

Gosh, they didn't include the ring swallowing incident, I am so disappointed.
I really wanted to see a re~enactment in court!!

Kat

[Leanne Weich]

:biggrin::biggrin:


A picture of a loving aunt with her neice is a far cry from her father emailing pictures of her to lure potential dates. Did you know that Meredith was/is her favorite aunt? Still. :biggrin:

OMG, maybe I'd better take my photos of myself with my grandchildren off my MS account - I fail to understand people having problems of Cassidy's photo being shown with her loving maternal family yet find nothing wrong in JY sending them to strangers in response to dating advertisements. That breath of fresh air woman he responded to with a photo could have been a fifty something dirty old perv. spending his day at a computer in a relative's basement. Stranger things have been known to happen.

[Wyn]

Because these sound like desperate rumors to hurt his character and take C away from him.

And, mostly cause they can not get enough to arrest him, so they can
try and humilate, embarrass, and anything else to make up for that one simple fact.

No arrest.

Kat


The goal is not to humilate or embarrass Jason. Haven't you realized that nothing can do that? He has no sense of decency. He's not embarrassed. His family probably is, but not him. The goal is to remove Cassidy from an unfit parent, the person who MURDERED her mother.

These are no longer rumors. They wouldn't be in the legal filings if the persons who actually witnessed them weren't willing to testify against Jason. Guess even his former friends realize he's not a fit parent at this point. My guess is one witness will be someone who had a child of their own. Because once you have a child, you understand the gravity of the situation better than the childless.

[Leanne Weich]

Really no need for you to shout but Fisher's complaint made no mention of Cassidy being left alone with her dead mother for hours. I guess she plumb forgot to mention it. A credible law firm isn't going to know Fisher is making up claims. I think Jason's more credible law firm might helpfully point it out, however.:thumbsup:

Jason's credible law firm sure helped him avoid being named a slayer didn't they?:cursing:

[Kat4Eagles]

Here's an answer. You have to follow the law, Kat. Sorry you don't understand how things have to work, legally.

With you and some other posters it's "Damned if you do, damned if you don't". You all kept saying Jason was wonderful, Cassidy was happy, no reason for the Fishers to attempt gain custody. How could they even consider it, how horrible if they did. Now you all have flipped and said why didn't they take her sooner, why leave her in this horrible situation....blah, blah, blah. What it comes down to is whatever you all can say against the Fishers, no matter the situation, that's the side you will argue.

The interesting part is, the Fishers didn't KNOW ALL of what was going on until after the murder. Do you think that Jason's former friends were telling anyone BEFORE Jason murdered Michelle the kinds of things he did? Nope. They take on a new light once someone dies. You also all like to conveniently forget that they have to do things legally. Everything is being done by the book, and Jason will lose. First he lost the WD Suit, next he will lose custody of Cassidy, and eventually he will lose his freedom.


Hey, I have always been the one who has questioned why there was
no temp custody hearings or emergency court hearings or hearings on visitation or custody.

No one lets someone they love , especially a child, live with someone they think is a murderer.

Oh, wait, the Fishers did.

For 25 months , 2 weeks, and 3 days.

Kat

[Wyn]

I'm sorry, but that was funny.

Gosh, they didn't include the ring swallowing incident, I am so disappointed.
I really wanted to see a re~enactment in court!!

Kat


I guess the ring swallowing pales in comparison to his other inappropriate actions. Maybe in a few years they'll make a made for tv movie and you'll get your wish though. Doubt the courts here will do a re-enactment of any of Jason's indiscretions. Maybe the court system in your area is a little more "relaxed" than ours?

[annalyzer]

Murder in the childs home of the childs mother certainly is grounds, along with LEAVING THE CHILD IN THAT HOME WITH HER DEAD MOTHER FOR HOURS, not to mention home ALONE for hours at 2 years of age. That alone should seal that deal, of course all the other crap levied against Jason Young will finish him off. .

Why was all the other crap listed but not that?

[annalyzer]

Hey, I have always been the one who has questioned why there was
no temp custody hearings or emergency court hearings or hearings on visitation or custody.

No one lets someone they love , especially a child, live with someone they think is a murderer.

Oh, wait, the Fishers did.

For 25 months , 2 weeks, and 3 days.

Kat


So have I but was argued with incessantly that the child was safe with Jason, that just because he murdered his wife doesn't mean he'd murder his child, blah, blah, blah.

Hi Kat!

[Jester]

Why was all the other crap listed but not that?

All the facts of the murder are available in alternate documentation, so I doubt there was any reason to include the specifics, beyond the label of slayer, in the application for custody.

[achristie]

Hi, Lindsey. At one time it was linked here to Meredith's Myspace and it included a recent photo of herself with Cassidy. She certainly wanted to flaunt it publicly with no regard to the child's privacy. I find such behavior far more troubling than a man getting drunk at a houseparty amongst friends. And back to that photo on myspace, Meredith had a history of pushing Michelle's buttons. According to a recent search warrant, Meredith sided with Jason in a disagreement he was having with Michelle and I wonder how hurtful that was to Michelle. And now Meredith wants Michelle's daughter for herself. Is Meredith still trying to push Michelle's buttons? Michelle supposedly named Heather, not Meredith as guardian in her Will. For some reason, Michelle stopped using her sister as a nanny.

You're right, so many unanswered questions on why Michelle did what she did. I hope we find answers soon.


:confused: Are you joking? Where do you come up with this stuff? :confused:
Meredith posting a sweet picture with she and her niece is sinister?
And that is far more troubling than her father getting drunk and walking around unclothed at a party?
Are you kidding me?
Truthfully, Miss Merri, JY getting trashed and walking around naked grosses me out. Is it enough to take his child away from him, in and of itself? No. It's childish and boorish and inappropriate. It's the totality of his behavior that will sink his ship. And you know it.

MOO Aggie

[Wyn]

Hey, I have always been the one who has questioned why there was
no temp custody hearings or emergency court hearings or hearings on visitation or custody.

No one lets someone they love , especially a child, live with someone they think is a murderer.

Oh, wait, the Fishers did.

For 25 months , 2 weeks, and 3 days.

Kat

Nope, you weren't. (Too bad so much has disappeared over the past two years.) Yes, they sometimes HAVE to until they can legally remove them. Some people do things the right way. Doing things legally and the right way seems to be a foreign concept to a lot of Jason's supporters.

[Leanne Weich]

I can see I have a lot of catching up to do, but if we are to believe that LF knew even some of these "allegations" months ago, and did nothing to remove C before this, then that in itself is sickening.

She had no trouble filing a wrongful death suit though, did she.?

And, only after that was done, did she get around to trying to rescue C.!!

When this is something I have been whining about for months now, the removal and the safety of the child, IF things were that bad.

Why now?

I hope the Judge presents her with that very question, why did you wait so long if you believed your granddaughter was living with a murderer or unfit parent?

I would love to hear the answer.


:rolleyes:
Kat

She clearly did have trouble filing the WDS. She waited until the last possible moment to do so to ensure her beloved granddaughter got what was rightfully hers.

I'm prepared to bet a lot of allegations/truths were revealed to her once JY was named the slayer of Michelle. Whether anyone wants to accept it or not, the title of slayer, gives Linda a huge advantage in the TC application.

Her answer is simple - she was hoping LE would prove her wrong in who killed her daughter and when it came out that there is suspicion CY was drugged, her granddaughter's longterm welfare became paramount and that, although she would have loved to have Cassidy from day one, she had her best interests at heart until it became obvious to her that this is not the case.

[Wyn]

So have I but was argued with incessantly that the child was safe with Jason, that just because he murdered his wife doesn't mean he'd murder his child, blah, blah, blah.

Hi Kat!


Good job!! You got the concept!! I'm so proud.:thumbup:

[annalyzer]

Yes, I saw myspace postings as well.

I took the search warrant reference to mean Meredith was siding with Jason in an argument he was having with Michelle. I'd like to know what Michelle's reaction was and did she view it as her sister's betrayal.

If she even knew about it. :sad:

[Kat4Eagles]

A judge certainly won't take away custody from a parent on that basis.


This is what has always bothered me too.

If L E and L F thought Jason killed Michelle, why even give her back to him in the beginning?

Where were all these friends with all this "information", that could have given the Fishers custody back then, when C was only 2...

Why wait two more years to take her from her Dad and the Youngs?

Like her life hasn't been torn apart enough, let's now take her away.

Kat

[annalyzer]

Good job!! You got the concept!! I'm so proud.:thumbup:


So are you still saying the child is in good hands with Jason?

[JHP]

So have I but was argued with incessantly that the child was safe with Jason, that just because he murdered his wife doesn't mean he'd murder his child, blah, blah, blah.

Hi Kat!

I have never said that myself, I've always been concerned for Cassidy's welfare, and hoped that at least CPS were involved.
I'm sure Mrs. Fisher did as much as she could legally do, when she could do it.
I suspect we will find out in the next few weeks. Unless of course Jason doesn't respond to this lawsuit.

JMO

[annalyzer]

So in your world, voluntarily going to a nude beach is no different that going to a party and having some drunk pervert strip down and start manipulating his privates. Sorry, I do see a difference.

I read that he walked out of the bathroom nude and sat on a sofa. Where did you read that he was "manipulating his privates"?

[MerriMent]

Oh it will come out in court, don't think for a moment it won't. A credible law firm such as the one being retained by Linda Fisher would never file without having proof that what is being alleged has been substantiated. She has it all in a neat little package with her WDS and the investigation by LE and her WDS lawyers. What credible law firm has Jason engaged ? Last I heard he is without counsel, bummer huh ?

Why are you making up stuff? You must not have a lot of confidence Fisher is going to prevail. That credible law firm was mentioned in news articles the other day. The fact remains, Fisher didn't allege in the complaint that Jason left Cassidy alone with her mother's dead body.

[Wyn]

So are you still saying the child is in good hands with Jason?


Good hands? :rolleyes: Is this a serious question? I've never said she was in "good hands" with Jason. I don't think she's in physical danger. Big difference.

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm confident the Judge will look at whether or not it's a good idea for Cassidy to live with a person, who a competant NC Judge has ruled slayed her Mother.

jmo

Q...........So, why wouldn't a Judge look at a search warrant that accuses the Father of drugging such child, but, not remove her?

A.........Umm, maybe cause the accusations have to be proven.

Hmm.

Kat

[achristie]

The day care C attends should be able to answer some of these questions, don't you think?

Kat

OMG. I'm sorry, this is really funny. Are you kidding?
Trust me, they have much to say.

JMHO Aggie

[JHP]

Q...........So, why wouldn't a Judge look at a search warrant that accuses the Father of drugging such child, but, not remove her?

A.........Umm, maybe cause the accusations have to be proven.

Hmm.

Kat

The next few weeks will be interesting. Jason has to respond by January 17, Think he will?

[Leanne Weich]

Why are you making up stuff? You must not have a lot of confidence Fisher is going to prevail. That credible law firm was mentioned in news articles the other day. The fact remains, Fisher didn't allege in the complaint that Jason left Cassidy alone with her mother's dead body.

I know this is not addressed to me but not everything that is known about the murder and/or circumstances pertaining to having custody of Cassidy removed from the slayer, is set out in black and white. That is what a trial is for.

Am going to finish reading this thread then better do my housework before someone tries to divorce me for being a slovenly housewife. :tonguewag:

[Wyn]

Q...........So, why wouldn't a Judge look at a search warrant that accuses the Father of drugging such child, but, not remove her?

A.........Umm, maybe cause the accusations have to be proven.

Hmm.

Kat

Oh the wheels of justice turn so slowly. Instead of your countdown of how long it's been since Michelle's murder, why don't you give us a count down on how long it is until February fourth, when so many of these questions will be answered?

I'll help, There's ten more days in this month, thirty-one in January, and three in February. (We won't count the fourth, since that's THE day.)

Looks like forty-four more days.

[achristie]

Q...........So, why wouldn't a Judge look at a search warrant that accuses the Father of drugging such child, but, not remove her?

A.........Umm, maybe cause the accusations have to be proven.

Hmm.

Kat


Well there you go, Kat!
You've answered your own questions!
Good job! LF could have spent the last 2 years flinging accusations. But she didn't. Why is that? I think it's because she has had solid legal advice, just like your boy Jason. All in due time, my dear. All in due time. I'm patient . Are you?

[Leanne Weich]

Q...........So, why wouldn't a Judge look at a search warrant that accuses the Father of drugging such child, but, not remove her?

A.........Umm, maybe cause the accusations have to be proven.

Hmm.

Kat

That judge did not have the authority to do so. All custody issues have to be heard before a Family Court Judge - easy answer.

[Wyn]

OMG. I'm sorry, this is really funny. Are you kidding?
Trust me, they have much to say.

JMHO Aggie


The daycare director may be a friend of Pat Young's but I doubt the employees are all brainwashed!!! Wonder how they feel when Jason shows up to collect Cassidy at the end of school? Especially since the natives of Brevard have now gotten the news?

[MerriMent]

So in your world, voluntarily going to a nude beach is no different that going to a party and having some drunk pervert strip down and start manipulating his privates. Sorry, I do see a difference.

Fisher's complaint didn't accuse Jason of being a drunk pervert who stripped down and start manipulating his privates. Such lies here won't help Fisher "win" her case.

[Jester]

I read that he walked out of the bathroom nude and sat on a sofa. Where did you read that he was "manipulating his privates"?

Paragraph 16.c of the Affidavit

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/12/19/4172400/Fisher_custody_complaint_against_Jason_Young.pdf

[Kat4Eagles]

I'm confident the Judge will look at whether or not it's a good idea for Cassidy to live with a person, who a competant NC Judge has ruled slayed her Mother.


jmo

Okay, but I bet no one can answer this.

Why wait for a slayer judgement?

If these new allegations are true, what does one have to do with another?

They are still grounds to remove a child or at least get some kind of a court hearing , sheesh.

If true.

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

That judge did not have the authority to do so. All custody issues have to be heard before a Family Court Judge - easy answer.


And, there are no Judges in NC that would not hear this case before this?

Come on........

Kat

[Jester]

Fisher's complaint didn't accuse Jason of being a drunk pervert who stripped down and start manipulating his privates. Such lies here won't help Fisher "win" her case.

It sure does. You may want to read page 9 one more time.

[Kat4Eagles]

OMG. I'm sorry, this is really funny. Are you kidding?
Trust me, they have much to say.

JMHO Aggie


But, they stayed quiet too.

Everyone stayed quiet and let C live with the person they thought who killed her Mother for over 2 years..

Umm, okay.

Kat

[bookie]

She clearly did have trouble filing the WDS. She waited until the last possible moment to do so to ensure her beloved granddaughter got what was rightfully hers.

I'm prepared to bet a lot of allegations/truths were revealed to her once JY was named the slayer of Michelle. Whether anyone wants to accept it or not, the title of slayer, gives Linda a huge advantage in the TC application.

Her answer is simple - she was hoping LE would prove her wrong in who killed her daughter and when it came out that there is suspicion CY was drugged, her granddaughter's longterm welfare became paramount and that, although she would have loved to have Cassidy from day one, she had her best interests at heart until it became obvious to her that this is not the case.



You think the police just decided Cassidy may have been drugged? The warrant that information came from was over a year old IIRC. It wasn't a new revelation except to the general public following this case. That excuse doesn't wash.

[Wyn]

Okay, but I bet no one can answer this.

Why wait for a slayer judgement?

If these new allegations are true, what does one have to do with another?

They are still grounds to remove a child or at least get some kind of a court hearing , sheesh.

If true.

Kat

Guess they wanted a "slam dunk" in the custody case. The "Slayer" judgement is just that.

Can't you see the light yet? :wink:

[Wyn]

But, they stayed quiet too.

Everyone stayed quiet and let C live with the person they thought who killed her Mother for over 2 years..

Umm, okay.

Kat

Why don't you give us your brillant legal strategy that you think someone should have used before now to remove Cassidy from Jason? How exactly could it have been done, legally? I can't wait to hear it.

[JHP]

Okay, but I bet no one can answer this.

Why wait for a slayer judgement?

If these new allegations are true, what does one have to do with another?

They are still grounds to remove a child or at least get some kind of a court hearing , sheesh.

If true.

Kat

Maybe it's the law in NC? I have hoped all along that CPS was involved. Maybe we will find out one day.
There has been such a small amount of news on this case "leaked" anywhere.

[bookie]

Why don't you give us your brillant legal strategy that you think someone should have used before now to remove Cassidy from Jason? How exactly could it have been done, legally? I can't wait to hear it.



The same way it was done in the Cooper case. Go to court, without letting the parent know, and take statements from people that knew him describing the behaviors that endangered the child.

[MerriMent]

This is what has always bothered me too.

If L E and L F thought Jason killed Michelle, why even give her back to him in the beginning?

Where were all these friends with all this "information", that could have given the Fishers custody back then, when C was only 2...

Why wait two more years to take her from her Dad and the Youngs?

Like her life hasn't been torn apart enough, let's now take her away.

Kat

What I think is really bizarre is Fisher abusing the court system to express her vitriol about Cassidy's father and then expects a Judge to rule the child is better off in her care. The woman sounds like a powder keg ready to explode. What's next? Is she going to kidnap the child?

[Jester]

But, they stayed quiet too.

Everyone stayed quiet and let C live with the person they thought who killed her Mother for over 2 years..

Umm, okay.

Kat

Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that there's more to it than you know, rather than to continually criticize the timing of this investigation, and its consequences?

[alter ego]

OT

Since when is it okay to refer to Linda as "Fisher"?
Why wouldn't it be OK, that's her name :confused:

[Wyn]

What I think is really bizarre is Fisher abusing the court system to express her vitriol about Cassidy's father and then expects a Judge to rule the child is better off in her care. The woman sounds like a powder keg ready to explode. What's next? Is she going to kidnap the child?


What I think is "bizarre" is that you feel the Fishers are abusing the legal system when they have followed the law at all times. Perhaps you have forgotten one or two important facts? Like, even though Jason hasn't yet been arrested, he most likely murdered Michelle? As a matter of fact, a judge felt the same way and named him a "SLAYER". Odd that you would forget that little fact. She "sounds like a powder keg ready to explode"? What a totally "bizarre" and fabricated statement on your part. She hasn't even spoken more than a few sentences to the media and I certainly haven't seen anything in the legal filings. Perhaps you have a link to back up your "bizarre" statements?

Kidnapping would have been the only way that the Fishers could have obtained custody of Cassidy in the past two years. I know you and Kat are highly disappointed that they didn't. I know how disappointed you are that they are actually law abiding citizens and are doing things legally. Unlike Jason, who instead of legally divorcing Michelle, decided to brutally beat her to death.

[Kat4Eagles]

I read/skimmed the complaint against Jason and it seemed to me most of the allegations of wrong doing occured while Michelle was still alive. Does this mean Cassidy was living in an 'unfit' home then? Would Linda and Meredith have filed a complaint again Jason and Michelle to take custody if they had known these allegations while Michelle was still alive?

To whomever it was that said Jason has posted pics of Cassidy on the net for 'date bait' and not Meredith Fisher, I beg to differ. I won't post a link but if CW wants one I'll be glad to PM her.

Who took care of Cassidy while Michelle was gone to NY for her business-turned-personal trip that lasted almost a week? Why didn't she take CY with her to visit family while Michelle took care of business? Or did she only allow visits when she was present? I doubt anyone here has answers to my last two questions.

I'll check back later for replies.


I don't know the answers, but all I can say after reading the list of charges that LF and MF are bringing against Jason now, is a question about the timing.

They knew that their chances of seeing C after filing the wds would be almost impossible........

They also know that Jason has not been charged with any crime..
apparently, while some of these charges are in extreme bad taste, he did not break any laws.

Unless ring swallowing is now a felony.

Looking back at things after someone was murdered , things always look different.

Things that might have seemed funny, now may look strange, or weird.

I don't know, I wasn't there, and to relay stories out of context also does not give us the full story or the right to judge.

Because, if you do, then you have to judge Michelle too. :no:

Judge her decison to marry Jason, judge her decision to stay married to Jason, and judge her decision to have Jason's children.......
.
Michelle. from what we know, was not one you were going to be able to get by with anything...

She would have called Jason on every one of those allegations.

I can not see Michelle putting up with any of that stuff, especially the part where Jason supposedly had a g.f living with them...

You really think she would allow that??
:no:

Kat

[Jester]

Unless you can provide a link to where it is stated in the complaint, it's an incredibly disgusting, libelous rumor you're claiming is fact.

How many times does the link, page number, paragraph and point number have to be provided before you read it?

[achristie]

But, they stayed quiet too.

Everyone stayed quiet and let C live with the person they thought who killed her Mother for over 2 years..

Umm, okay.

Kat


How do you know they stayed quiet?
Are you basing that on the fact that YOU haven't heard about it?
Umm, okay.

MOO Aggie

[alter ego]

What I think is really bizarre is Fisher abusing the court system to express her vitriol about Cassidy's father and then expects a Judge to rule the child is better off in her care. The woman sounds like a powder keg ready to explode. What's next? Is she going to kidnap the child?
Won't the 'best interest of the child' doctrine kick in?

[MerriMent]

Why wouldn't it be OK, that's her name :confused:

and it's the name she used on the complaint...

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/michelle_young/story/1339814.html

In the complaint filed this week, Fisher....

[Wyn]

Won't the 'best interest of the child' doctrine kick in?


He hadn't been determined a "Slayer" yet. Now, "best interest of the child" has kicked in. Some posters here just don't like that though. You just can't put that cart before the horse!

[bookie]

Her name is Linda, LF, or Ms. Fisher, not "Fisher".




Fisher, however, claims Jason Young is liable for his wife's death and wants him to pay compensation to Cassidy and be barred from collecting any life insurance benefits.

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/3960867/


Why are you trying to make an issue out of something that even the media does??? :rolleyes: